ADY - extremely cheap or too risky/early

[stevo1]

Was just going off Phillip Thomas's earlier timetable.

As an Accountant i can fully appreciate such a "project" requires time.

While i to appreciate projects require time managment credability is in doubt here.They should have known this before they put a time line on demerger.They have been long on projections and short on delivery of those projections.Shasta i have to disagree with you on shorting(share lending)having no material affect on ADYs funding .Leverage Capitol has just converted $A10mill loan at 27cps into equity thereby diluting (still $20mill "out there" i think) the demerger entitlment from divider of 3.472 to 3.67(once again not the figure annd by PT).Blumberg as an ex director of ADY(resigned very recently)is a director of Leverage capitol.Future funding may well rely on sp and yes i do know what PT has said with reference to contracts/funding.With three "hot" products IO,LI, potash it would be reasonable to expect the shareprice to be far ahead of where it is or has been.I have reduced my holding by 30%

[Corporate]

I'm wanting to learn more about the details of the demerger. I tried getting onto ADY website but it seems to be down.

Can anyone else get on?

http://www.admiraltyresources.com.au/

[shasta]

I'm wanting to learn more about the details of the demerger. I tried getting onto ADY website but it seems to be down.

Can anyone else get on?

http://www.admiraltyresources.com.au/

Shephejame - The link you want is below.

http://www.ady.com.au/demerger_pdf/c4ca4238a0b923820dcc509a6f75849b.pdf

Steveo1 - Good point, i forgot about the extra dillution :mad:

[tobo]

Demerger division -
so is that 1:3.6476 the new rate? (as posted on ADY website FAQ)
I was confused in researching this, since the October ann said 1:3.47215.
I thought there would be an ann noting change ...but now I conclude that the details of the (proposed) dermerger were only intended as a general idea and not binding.
(I hadn't noticed anything suggesting further dilution automaticaly meant the conversion rate would change, but maybe that is the convention.)

[shasta]

Demerger division -
so is that 1:3.6476 the new rate? (as posted on ADY website FAQ)
I was confused in researching this, since the October ann said 1:3.47215.
I thought there would be an ann noting change ...but now I conclude that the details of the (proposed) dermerger were only intended as a general idea and not binding.
(I hadn't noticed anything suggesting further dilution automaticaly meant the conversion rate would change, but maybe that is the convention.)

I'm amazed we had to find out after Steveo1's snooping on the ADY website. (Cheers for that)

I would like to think ANY further dillution would be on hold until AFTER the demerger.

I would imagine this wee "surprise" has changed a few figures & documents currently being worked on.

It's a bit suss when an ex director is found lurking behind this, along with the shorting going on, especially when they will be privvy to whats going on at the moment.

Now appears to me, this had been "managed" via shorting the stock to maximise the total amount of shares.

Whilst it may be legal, it does not send a good message to shareholders.

I will go back & re-read all the documentation & email PT my concerns.

Seems companies are a little gunshy about putting negative anns into the market at the moment. :confused:

[shasta]

I'm amazed we had to find out after Steveo1's snooping on the ADY website. (Cheers for that)

I would like to think ANY further dillution would be on hold until AFTER the demerger.

I would imagine this wee "surprise" has changed a few figures & documents currently being worked on.

It's a bit suss when an ex director is found lurking behind this, along with the shorting going on, especially when they will be privvy to whats going on at the moment.

Now appears to me, this had been "managed" via shorting the stock to maximise the total amount of shares.

Whilst it may be legal, it does not send a good message to shareholders.

I will go back & re-read all the documentation & email PT my concerns.

Seems companies are a little gunshy about putting negative anns into the market at the moment. :confused:

Half Yearly report is out ...

http://sa.iguana2.com/cache/cdd494829b503de4b36dd78d611ee07e/ASX-ADY-197833.pdf

Of note is a $13m provision for loss on iron ore contract????????

[stevo1]

Half Yearly report is out ...

http://sa.iguana2.com/cache/cdd494829b503de4b36dd78d611ee07e/ASX-ADY-197833.pdf

Of note is a $13m provision for loss on iron ore contract????????

Why the #*#* do they need a provision for potetial loss?

[shasta]

Why the #*#* do they need a provision for potetial loss?

This is something i queried with PT.:confused:

The 2006 WISCO contract is way behind in the delivery of the Iron Ore.

You will have read in the ann we have 154,000T of IO stock piled awaiting shipment, this is to complete the contract.

I queried whether there was any "breach or penalties clauses" in the contract, & PT advised to "wait" & the market would find it.

In an earlier ann the WISCO contract seems to have been renegotiated that the balance of the outstanding delivery, is to be at an increased price & that WISCO had agreed to this!

I can only "assume" they have cut ADY considerable slack to gain favour for the 2008 supply agreements.

Legally they could have screwed us good & proper. :eek:

The accounting treatment of this, firstly to the P&L, & secondly to the balance sheet, shows why the going concern question has been asked.

This doesnt paint a great pitcure for ADY, in fact it may see a small sell down today. :(

[Serpie]

Looks like more than a small sell down. Might get slapped a wee bit on open.

[stevo1]

Reduced my holding by 90%.It appears can no longer rely on managements words.I am not an accountant but the accounts look a mess to me .(going concern?)Hope i am wrong but cant see the market being forgiving here.

[Damo79]

I agree. That report looked like one helluva mess.

All the chatter on this site has been about "why is the share price so low?", and now suddenly we see why. It's all about cash flow. The iron ore operations are massively underperforming and draining cash at an amazing rate. No wonder they want the demerger. Lithium story looks great, the iron ore is an anchor dragging them down. Makes you wonder what went wrong.

I'm pretty annoyed that we don't see how bad the iron ore operations are going until the official report. Fair enough if that's their only way of communicating, but with announcements and updates coming out weekly, and an active website, it raises questions about reporting :(

[spruik]

Just can't help remaining somewhat suspicious. A very good story but certain insider groups selling persistently.

Perhaps the story is made up, perhaps half true. It explains why one wanted so many options (that was queried in this thread) and since having been exercised and sold.

PS - It's not in my nature to speak this way.

Recent events do nothing to change my suspicion. Also turns out that PT has been in bed with this Blumberg character...

[JackSprat]

Well, is it St Patrick's day or April Fool's Day?? Whatever, I'm afraid after that report my speculative days are over and I've departed ADY with a bit of a loss, about 3k. Never mind. I thought the Fed bandages might have done the trick for the American economy and so the world state but there's no markets that are immune and Auzzie is already bearing the brunt of inflation. With ADY outside that area of concern (I thought) I didn't expect to get blind sided by the half yrly report today. I'm now 70% in cash and will stay that way until about 2010 (lol), it'll take at least that long to get the world economy to balance it's books IMO.

[spruik]

I also quit today.

Frankly, I am tired of all the bullsh!t and the never ending praise and ramping up by one.

See you at 12c???

[Damo79]

As always, impeccable timing for a "good" announcement.

They definately need that money at the moment...

"First Sale of Iron Ore Fines at Spot Completed
Headline Summary
Admiralty Resources concludes contract to sell approximately 48,500 tonnes to China
Shougang International Trade And Engineering Corporation (Shougang) on the
MV Bright Bulker due to load on 21 March 2008.
The Board of Directors are pleased to announce that it has concluded today the first spot sale
of iron ore with Shougang at $189 per tonne. The value of the shipment is approximately
US$9.16 million.
Cia Minera Santa Barbara has approximately 120,000 tonnes of iron ore at the port stockpile
and the mine ready for shipping. This spot shipment will reduce the amount to approximately
75,000 tonnes. As production increases, Cia Minera Santa Barbara will produce sufficient iron
ore to make two shipments per month.
Cia Minera Santa Barbara continues to expand its production capacity as equipment becomes
available. Completion of production planning will allow Cia Minera Santa Barbara to enter into
a three year contract with WISCO and continue negotiations with interested mills for the other
50% of production.
Admiralty has three iron ore shipments in handymax size ships over the next three months to
complete the second part of the renegotiated WISCO 06 CFR contract and then the final four
shipments will be made when the panamax port becomes available late this year. This
concession from WISCO allows us to substantially reduce our freight costs for this CFR
contract.
Yours sincerely,"

[spruik]

I am sure this information was available at the time of releasing the accounts, and should have been released at the same time.

PT keeps this one on hold at the expense of those holders who decided to sell today.

It all stinks of manipulation, always has. Especially with that Blumberg character and the shorting.

[spruik]

As always, impeccable timing for a "good" announcement.


Indeed. A solid well managed company doesn't need this "impeccable timing". They are fooling around with their own shareholders, losing trust.

[ScrappyO]

I also quit today.

Frankly, I am tired of all the bullsh!t and the never ending praise and ramping up by one.

See you at 12c???

I Still Hold a little....Interested to see how many bailed today...

[tricha]

I Still Hold at little....Interested to see how many bailed today...

Bailed the lot today, a year ago it would have been worth a fortune going into this split.
The USA is ................................. and running on empty :(. they are just starting to work it out, wait till the next bank folds.

[shasta]

Bailed the lot today, a year ago it would have been worth a fortune going into this split.
The USA is ................................. and running on empty :(. they are just starting to work it out, wait till the next bank folds.

Tricha

Why bail when im still in, i have over 60% of invested capital in this bad boy.

A very big punt for me, & despite the bad news today, dont forget the ADY/RLL valuations will show valuations far greater than the current SP.

Those that exited today, (especially those at a loss), get back in under 25c.

Trust me on this one...:cool:

It's a knee jerk reaction & quite understandable but, with the valuations so close?

[tricha]

Tricha

Why bail when im still in, i have over 60% of invested capital in this bad boy.

A very big punt for me, & despite the bad news today, dont forget the ADY/RLL valuations will show valuations far greater than the current SP.

Those that exited today, (especially those at a loss), get back in under 25c.

Trust me on this one...:cool:

It's a knee jerk reaction & quite understandable but, with the valuations so close?


U do not get it Shastahttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif, it's nothing to do with ADY, it's to do with a bear market from hell.
The news is only to get worse for quite a while yet, it will be relentless.
The United States is virtually bankrupt.:eek:

[Halebop]

ADY has favoured the bear for many months and the trend has augured more of the same. An irony then that so many exit just as the price approaches the strongest support level. Suspect former holders could yet be "rewarded" by seeing further drops but selling just above the major support level is certainly not the point I'd have chosen.

The market is suddenly worried about losses, going concern, cash flow - risks (come on, losses weren't even a risk - they were assured) that were apparent to even casual observation but now appear to render this company untenable? Although Iron may yet be extremely profitable the main "story" was always lithium and this remains unchanged.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7536/adyjpegka6.jpg

[tricha]

Gerry had been right for the last five years, the yanks found ways to get around paying their dues, so now their dues are compounded beyond belief.

We all deep down knew things were not right, greed kept us going, judgement day is upon us all.


MARKET DATA - 09:16 UK (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/overview/default.stm)

FTSE 100 (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/3/default.stm)5485.4down
-146.30Dax (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/18/default.stm)6209.2down
-242.74Cac 40 (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/1/default.stm)4459.1down
-133.10

[tricha]

HaleBop -"ADY has favoured the bear for many months and the trend has augured more of the same. An irony then that so many exit just as the price approaches the strongest support level. Suspect former holders could yet be "rewarded" by seeing further drops but selling just above the major support level is certainly not the point I'd have chosen.

The market is suddenly worried about losses, going concern, cash flow - risks (come on, losses weren't even a risk - they were assured) that were apparent to even casual observation but now appear to render this company untenable? Although Iron may yet be extremely profitable the main "story" was always lithium and this remains unchanged"

The whole market has favoured the bear for many monthes.

U R right Halebop the ADY story has not changed, it has huge potential.
But something much bigger than we can imagine has changed ...............

[shasta]

Gerry had been right for the last five years, the yanks found ways to get around paying their dues, so now their dues are compounded beyond belief.

We all deep down knew things were not right, greed kept us going, judgement day is upon us all.


MARKET DATA - 09:16 UK (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/overview/default.stm)

FTSE 100 (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/3/default.stm)5485.4down
-146.30Dax (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/18/default.stm)6209.2down
-242.74Cac 40 (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/1/default.stm)4459.1down
-133.10

Tricha

Its not like you to get spooked so easily, so the US goes down the drain, ADY/RLL has a lithium resource worth over $US45b - it hasnt gone anywhere i can assure you of that!

[Halebop]

But something much bigger than we can imagine has changed ...............

Oh no, the imagining is pretty big right now. This is a market correcting. The correction stems from a speculative debt binge - normally the scariest kind - But these things happen every decade or so to various degrees and (those of us who haven't hurled ourselves out a window) will still get up in the morning and markets will boom again. Get a grip (or take your hand of it!) and wait for the inevitable bargains...

[shasta]

Oh no, the imagining is pretty big right now. This is a market correcting. The correction stems from a speculative debt binge - normally the scariest kind - But these things happen every decade or so to various degrees and (those of us who haven't hurled ourselves out a window) will still get up in the morning and markets will boom again. Get a grip (or take your hand of it!) and wait for the inevitable bargains...

As ive said on this thread many times before, the US economy going down the drain doesnt effect the Iron Ore stock piles or the $US45b+ worth of Lithium & Potash etc.

ADY is very close to having the formal valuations released & these will show significant upside to the current SP.

Just remember this company has the 3 so called "hot resources", in Iron Ore, Lithium & Potash.

No other company except perhaps SQM can compare to ADY/RLL & there Lithium/Potash resource.

[hack]

In this "bear market", has anyone cared to watch the SQM (US) shareprice. Although ADY (RLL) operation is smaller, share price and future earnings are relative.

Whilst the US has been falling, SQM has moved from around $160 to $215.

It is all relative, Lithium & potash is HOT (& I/O for ADY).

Ed27620

[The Big Ease]

why would you expect the "expert's" valuation to change market sentiment?
the business will still be the same as the day before.

[stevo1]

Does anyone really expect the price of lithium not to retrace?The research i have done indicated a surplus in supply(prior to this market mess)Will the demand increase into a major recessesion in the western world?Auto makers are not going to roll out large capitol expenditures on new tech production if they are having difficulties with profitabilty in existing sales.It has the potential to substantially slow LI demand.ADY has had interest in tender for LI with the successful tenderer making a prepayment mid 2008 "expected to be $us 40-60 mill".Which in the light on past managements words could be adjusted to whatever.Iron ore shipments at $9.1mill how much of that is profit?the comparison of SQM to ADY is stretching things a bit.SQM is the estabilished market leader/producer and makes specialty fertilisers and organic fertilisers,iodine,LI carbonate,hydroxide,butylithium,lithium metal,sodium nitrate,potassium nitrate,boric acid and potassium chloride.All this adds up to a very profitable company particulaly the fertiliser.ADY on the other hand has a "going concern" hanging over them,heaps of expenditures with ramp up in IO and LI production,port and shipping issues plus "up in the air funding".If ADY can survive the challenges past demerger and into meaningful profitable production shareholders could do very well but all things considered i will watch from the sidelines for now.The risk has increased substantially from even a few months ago

[Halebop]

A recession would almost certainly diminish existing demand uses for Lithium. It would also seems that historic growth rates from new uses would be unlikey to make up for a recessionary shortfall in the short term. In the longer term it would seem a given barring a new disruptive technology.

On the question of risk it has not increased even a fraction from a few months ago. It is what it always was. The market perception or tolerance of that risk is what has changed and is clearly demonstrated by comments here over the last few days.

[spruik]

A recession would almost certainly diminish existing demand uses for Lithium. It would also seems that historic growth rates from new uses would be unlikey to make up for a recessionary shortfall in the short term. In the longer term it would seem a given barring a new disruptive technology.

On the question of risk it has not increased even a fraction from a few months ago. It is what it always was. The market perception or tolerance of that risk is what has changed and is clearly demonstrated by comments here over the last few days.

Halebop.

Perception is a strong driving force. Share price manipulation has clearly been rampant and I don't like surprises from one hour to the next. And I don't like being screwed by shorters and manipulators.

And we have been continually "assured" by shasta and some others that the sp will increase but all it does is decrease.

I don't accept that the current levels are only due to the market generally.

I have sold close to support and cost but at a profit when allowing for several trades and the way up and on the way down. I am not prepared to lose my investment and that where I drew the line. Rather move the money in something a little safer.

[stevo1]

A recession would almost certainly diminish existing demand uses for Lithium. It would also seems that historic growth rates from new uses would be unlikey to make up for a recessionary shortfall in the short term. In the longer term it would seem a given barring a new disruptive technology.

On the question of risk it has not increased even a fraction from a few months ago. It is what it always was. The market perception or tolerance of that risk is what has changed and is clearly demonstrated by comments here over the last few days.

Somewhat of an oxymoronic (is there such a word?) statement there Halebop.Tolerance of risk and market perception has substantially increased risk in ADY and therfore by definition risk cannot be same as it was several months ago and is not what it has always been.Funding is harder and more expensive to obtain.If the product you are suppling drops in price just adds to woes.Certainly if ADY does weather this then some time in the future shareholders may do well.I still hold 5% of my original holding as an offering to the gods of speculation(are there such gods?)

[Halebop]

Steveo1:

Risk assessment comes down to what you know and what you don't know. Inherent risk is there regardless of whether you know it or not. The market is now adjusting to what it knows (and feels!) but those risks existed all the time - they didn't manifest just because they were announced. Knowledge doesn't increase or reduce the risk - it just makes you look either smart or dumb after the event.

Spruik:

I didn't say performance was due to the current market only, irrespective of if it was or not, a diminishing ADY share price was the focus of analysis. What I did say was that the trend was evident for months and the time to get off was much earlier, not at the point at which it is most likely to be supported should that support manifest. Suddenly the risks of ADY (which were there all along) outweighed the rationale for holding - yet in fact none of the risks were different or changed - just all-at-one "obvious".

There are lessons on risk management to be learned (the only way to "manage" risk is avoid it - there is no such thing as managing risk in terms of actively dealing with it). I think the Lithium business could be a huge success and am just as bullish about it as many here despite the speculative nature. But I didn't let that cloud some obvious data - notably the share price performance was decidedly not bullish for months.

[Mick100]

[quote=spruik;190298]

And we have been continually "assured" by shasta and some others that the sp will increase but all it does is decrease.

[quote]

If you have been influenced by these "self appointed experts" regarding your decisions wether to hold or not to hold ADY then your probably better off to step aside - don't tell me your holding URA as well!

Halebop's comments on this thread are worth taking notice of, unlike 95% of the rest of the rubbish that is posted here

I'm betting the 20c support will hold
As halebop says, all you clowns have baled at exactly the wrong time
Take it from me - if tricha is baling out we are very close to a bottom in the market - he's made a habit, over the past couple of years, of panic selling right at the very bottom

I was very pleased to see that he panicked yesterday;)
.

[spruik]

If you have been influenced by these "self appointed experts" regarding your decisions wether to hold or not to hold ADY then your probably better off to step aside - don't tell me your holding URA as well!

As halebop says, all you clowns have baled at exactly the wrong time
Take it from me - if tricha is baling out we are very close to a bottom in the market - he's made a habit, over the past couple of years, of panic selling right at the very bottom

I was very pleased to see that he panicked yesterday;)
.

The purpose and benefit of these threads is that readers learn about stocks and opportunities. So it follows any thread readers are influenced, at least to some extend. I don't wish to put blame on anyone, but will admit that I would have exited (and most likely re-entered) earlier if it wasn't for shasta being so sure at all times. He does appear to have done his homework on the fundamentals (as well as others). Only he has been way-out with sp "predictions".

If that makes me a clown, so be it! :o No, I don't have URA, never have, it's not for me. Most of my portfolio consists of dividend paying stock. But like shasta, I do have BBI... (but bought before he did) :)

[shasta]

[quote=spruik;190298]

And we have been continually "assured" by shasta and some others that the sp will increase but all it does is decrease.

[quote]

If you have been influenced by these "self appointed experts" regarding your decisions wether to hold or not to hold ADY then your probably better off to step aside - don't tell me your holding URA as well!

Halebop's comments on this thread are worth taking notice of, unlike 95% of the rest of the rubbish that is posted here

I'm betting the 20c support will hold
As halebop says, all you clowns have baled at exactly the wrong time
Take it from me - if tricha is baling out we are very close to a bottom in the market - he's made a habit, over the past couple of years, of panic selling right at the very bottom

I was very pleased to see that he panicked yesterday;)
.

Always amazes me when a company has come out & released guidance on when a "big price sensitive announcement" is pending & people sell beforehand?

The potash resource alone is going to be worth holding on for, along with the huge Lithium resource.

Seems everyone is running around looking for the next MAK?

Until such time as the valuations are released, there is very little news "due", so we are at the mercy of the market & whats unfolding in the US.

Mick100 - What amazes me even more is if those who followed me into ADY are selling, when i have been buying!

I like to identify stocks that are due "key announcements" & position myself early & wait.

[STRAT]

And we have been continually "assured" by shasta and some others that the sp will increase but all it does is decrease.
.Thats a bit unfair Spruik and Mick.
Like everyone on this site he posts his opinion and its up to readers here to investigate whether any post by any member has merit. If you can show me one poster here who never gets anything wrong I would be most impressed. I clearly remember some posters on here elevating Shasta to god like status. I even sent him a PM at the time asking how he managed to carry the weight around and if he slept OK at night. We all make our calls on a daily basis for what is a continual moving target and short of being in a company we can not see all and hear all.

Mick, as for calling everyone else a clown. Nice touch, NOT

Oh by the way theres an ann out fellas
Rincon Lithium Update - Rio Grande commences operation

[spruik]

[quote=Mick100;190312][quote=spruik;190298]

Always amazes me when a company has come out & released guidance on when a "big price sensitive announcement" is pending & people sell beforehand?

Seems everyone is running around looking for the next MAK?

Until such time as the valuations are released, there is very little news "due", so we are at the mercy of the market & whats unfolding in the US.

Mick100 - What amazes me even more is if those who followed me into ADY are selling, when i have been buying!

I like to identify stocks that are due "key announcements" & position myself early & wait.

Don't think ADY has a habit of telling us the day before on "big price sensitive announcements". They do have a habit of telling us without any notice. Another one right now.

Generalizing on "everone running around" is a little disrespectful, I think.

[stevo1]

Yeah well i was thinking of joining a two ring circus one with shasta as the bear tamer (nice white friendly one).The other ring with Halebop full of lions being eaten telling this clown the risk was always there.Ha ha says the clown that was obvious as nothing is without risk even getting out of bed in the morning but i decided to stay outside the cage.

[shasta]

[quote=shasta;190324][quote=Mick100;190312]

Don't think ADY has a habit of telling us the day before on "big price sensitive announcements". They do have a habit of telling us without any notice. Another one right now.

Generalizing on "everone running around" is a little disrespectful, I think.

I could have said that much better, you are right.

I should have said those that hold ADY until after the ADY/RLL demerger, & after the independent valuations are released, will do well.

I expect there to be alot of positioning to get into RLL, & the only way at present is to buy ADY.

Seems to be holding 20c nicely...

[spruik]

[quote=spruik;190327][quote=shasta;190324]

I expect there to be alot of positioning to get into RLL, & the only way at present is to buy ADY.

Seems to be holding 20c nicely...

Shasta, you said the same thing when the sp was 60,50,45,40,35,30,25 and now 20... (Yes, we know). :(

[Halebop]

If you have been influenced by these "self appointed experts" regarding your decisions wether to hold or not to hold ADY then your probably better off to step aside - don't tell me your holding URA as well!

Halebop's comments on this thread are worth taking notice of, unlike 95% of the rest of the rubbish that is posted here

I'm betting the 20c support will hold
As halebop says, all you clowns have baled at exactly the wrong time
Take it from me - if tricha is baling out we are very close to a bottom in the market - he's made a habit, over the past couple of years, of panic selling right at the very bottom

I was very pleased to see that he panicked yesterday;)
.

In truth Mick I'm not saying 20 cents is the bottom but it was previously a strong support level so it would be a strange point to sell if I've incurred large losses already.

[Halebop]

Yeah well i was thinking of joining a two ring circus one with shasta as the bear tamer (nice white friendly one).The other ring with Halebop full of lions being eaten telling this clown the risk was always there.Ha ha says the clown that was obvious as nothing is without risk even getting out of bed in the morning but i decided to stay outside the cage.

Steve I'm not clear what you are saying here but to use the lion and clown analogy what you said about risk earlier was the following:

Cage of Lions
Clown walks into cage with eyes closed
Can't see lions, no risk
Clown opens eyes
Can see lions, big risk

What I said was that the risk of a cage full of lions was always the same.

[seaosh]

Well I split my holding in this one into two halves a few months back, one half traded on technicals and one half as a long term hold. No surprises which half has outperformed.

I'm still hopeful it will pay off long term. Now does not seem to be the time to be selling anyway. If it breaks lower may have to reconsider though.

[spruik]

If the SP cracks 20, PT will pull another rabbit out like many others before (trading halts followed by meaningless anns).

They are all lined up, have watched this on numerous occasions in the past.

[shasta]

[quote=shasta;190331][quote=spruik;190327]

Shasta, you said the same thing when the sp was 60,50,45,40,35,30,25 and now 20... (Yes, we know). :(

Spruik

Now thats being a tad unfair, i sold enough at 63c to free carry the balance & have been "averaging up" buying them back.

I posted what i did at the time, & sold a few more at around 42.5/43c.

My last buy was at 24.5c last week & i posted re this.

Having sold some at a higher SP, & buying back at a lower SP, i have overall accummulated more shares with the same money.

Remember i've backed ADY & have been bullish on it, having around 60% of invested capital riding on it.

If it doesn't come off, i will be the one suffering here! :(

[spruik]

[quote=spruik;190332][quote=shasta;190331]

Spruik

Now thats being a tad unfair, i sold enough at 63c to free carry the balance & have been "averaging up" buying them back.

I posted what i did at the time, & sold a few more at around 42.5/43c.

My last buy was at 24.5c last week & i posted re this.

Having sold some at a higher SP, & buying back at a lower SP, i have overall accummulated more shares with the same money.

Remember i've backed ADY & have been bullish on it, having around 60% of invested capital riding on it.

If it doesn't come off, i will be the one suffering here! :(

No arguments with your strategy, shasta. Don't want to follow if you suffer.

I am not the only one who didn't think much of that audited report (someone opened eyes of this clown in circus).

[shasta]

:cool:with so many ADY holders seemingly quitting at once - and this thread is only a taste of the greater market - ADY being more followed on HC

it seems THE FEAR has finally hit the ADY confidence bandwagon (suddenly)

It will take a helluva lot more "doom & gloom" to knock my optimism SS.

Bear Stearns problems, haven't vapourized the Lithium, Potash etc

It's still all there, awaiting final processing :D

[spruik]

:cool:with so many ADY holders seemingly quitting at once - and this thread is only a taste of the greater market - ADY being more followed on HC

it seems THE FEAR has finally hit the ADY confidence bandwagon (suddenly)

And like HC, most posts are just chatter. Used to be informative.

[shasta]

but bear stearns has helped escalate the cost of debt to companies like ADY that needs heaps of it to develop the full extent of these deposits

otherwise its dilution to you (at a big discount!)

SS

The 10% Lithium tender process was designed to obtain funds, without the need for dillution or further debt.

I still expect there will be a placement(s) into RLL, & maybe ADY post demerger.

When the IO & Lithium businesses are separate i expect more interest from companies wanting supply agreements & blocking stakes.

Just my opinion mind you.

[spruik]

SS

The 10% Lithium tender process was designed to obtain funds, without the need for dillution or further debt.

I still expect there will be a placement(s) into RLL, & maybe ADY post demerger.

When the IO & Lithium businesses are separate i expect more interest from companies wanting supply agreements & blocking stakes.

Just my opinion mind you.

Must have missed something, first time I hear about a placement into RLL. Dilution before we even start?

[shasta]

oh comeon Spruik, get with the program, why are you surprised at that?

there will also be cost blowouts as nearly all trying to get deposits to production are experiencing in this market and dont forget the Aussie $ is becoming more attractive as our interest rates rise whilst everyone around us lowers (except for the Japanese FX housewives freaking)


however, I think you are just being a little sarcastic:confused:
Spruik

I thought the last line of my previous post outlined it?

It may not happen at all!

[spruik]

oh comeon Spruik, get with the program, why are you surprised at that?

there will also be cost blowouts as nearly all trying to get deposits to production are experiencing in this market and dont forget the Aussie $ is becoming more attractive as our interest rates rise whilst everyone around us lowers (except for the Japanese FX housewives freaking)


however, I think you are just being a little sarcastic:confused:

Possible a little paranoid... everyday brings new surprises (for me anyway), yet I read every company report (and try not to forget too much).

Just that shasta used the word "still", suggesting it's been mentioned before. I realise that may be necessary.

[Damo79]

If the SP cracks 20, PT will pull another rabbit out like many others before (trading halts followed by meaningless anns).

They are all lined up, have watched this on numerous occasions in the past.

Spot on Spruik. Another meaningless announcement. To paraphrase: "some fat official from a developing nation checked out our salar and thought it was pretty ok!"

[shasta]

Spot on Spruik. Another meaningless announcement. To paraphrase: "some fat official from a developing nation checked out our salar and thought it was pretty ok!"

http://sa.iguana2.com/cache/603e046525e1cbfaac5163939121735e/ASX-ADY-197939.pdf

To say it is meaningless shows your ignorance

The Uyuni lithium salar is the largest in South America, this could provide a further avenue for Rincon (RLL) down the track.

Boliva want to nationalise there resources, but will need RLL's assistance to process it's Lithium.

[Damo79]

To say it is meaningless shows your ignorance


You think that announcement was worth making? Seriously!? Imagine how much sh#t would be announced to the ASX if all companys posted an announcement every time some official visited there facility.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I think you need a more balanced approach to commenting on ADY.

I hold, and think the possible value of this company if they can get there cashflow sorted is worth the RISK.

[spruik]

Geopolitics was always some concern with ADY.

Now we are talking about going to bed with Bolivia who's policy it is to nationalise all their natural resources. RLL's trade secrets won't be secret for very long, this is the process of losing control.

And Bolivia may well nationalise RLL's share - it's their policy!

[shasta]

You think that announcement was worth making? Seriously!? Imagine how much sh#t would be announced to the ASX if all companys posted an announcement every time some official visited there facility.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I think you need a more balanced approach to commenting on ADY.

I hold, and think the possible value of this company if they can get there cashflow sorted is worth the RISK.

ADY has shown a committment to South America & has offices/staff there.

We have the Iron Ore in Chile, & the Lithium in Argentina.

For the Bolivian Govt to come out & express an interest in there "know how", IMO is another door opening for ADY/RLL.

If the Bolivian Govt wants to nationalise its resources, then they may well want to invite RLL into a JV to process their Lithium resources.

They could spend the money on infrastructure & compete, but that would take years & they DON'T have the know how, RLL does.

I would "assume" the main prize here is the Potash by-product.

I'd be surprised if we don't hear more about this "enquiry".

[spruik]

If the Bolivian Govt wants to nationalise its resources, then they may well want to invite RLL into a JV to process their Lithium resources.

They could spend the money on infrastructure & compete, but that would take years & they DON'T have the know how, RLL does.



Knowhow will be a matter of time. Reminds me of Hitler and his "JV" with Italy. Can't trust Mugabi either.

[soulman]

So who here has exit this investment?

I am under the assumption that Shasta has fallen in love with this stock (along with URA), which is one of the sins in investing. The psychology for fallin in love with stocks is that people have make significant gains with the stock before and just can't let go. Although with URA, the stock might skyrocket again with their small market cap.

[shasta]

So who here has exit this investment?

I am under the assumption that Shasta has fallen in love with this stock (along with URA), which is one of the sins in investing. The psychology for fallin in love with stocks is that people have make significant gains with the stock before and just can't let go. Although with URA, the stock might skyrocket again with their small market cap.

You may call it falling in love, i call it fundamental research. :confused:

I don't get spooked when the markets drop "a few %", in fact i stick to my system & virtually sit tight & wait.

ADY is about to undergo a value enhancing "demerger", where ADY shareholders will receive an inspecie distribution into a Lithium company (Rincon Lithium Ltd - "RLL"), that will attract alot of attention.

Especially being the only listed Lithium company on the ASX, & with no shares being issued, there is but one way to obtain RLL shares pre-listing.

RLL will also have a large Potash resource (some 50mt already JORC).

Forget the crap comparisons to GXY too, thats like comparing URA to PDN.

Why sell now, we all know RLL will command a higher valuation multiple than ADY will, even though the ADY business is more advanced.

Again, why sell now (if at a loss), so close to this event occuring?

[spruik]

ADY is about to undergo a value enhancing "demerger", where ADY shareholders will receive an inspecie distribution into a Lithium company (Rincon Lithium Ltd - "RLL"), that will attract alot of attention.

Especially being the only listed Lithium company on the ASX, & with no shares being issued, there is but one way to obtain RLL shares pre-listing.

Again, why sell now (if at a loss), so close to this event occuring?

Last year the demerger was also "close". We still don't have a firm time-table, only a postponement, delayed shipment, a breach of contract provision, a cash-flow issue and possible funding issue.

If anyone questioned me as to why I still hold the stock after all this, from 67 to 20 cents, knowing about the shorting (I believe by Blumberg or his mates), the silly anns, I would be considered a clown. Yes, a real clown.

Or should I answer: "I have visions of a $1 or $2 in front of it..." No longer.

Embarrassing.

[shasta]

Last year the demerger was also "close". We still don't have a firm time-table, only a postponement, delayed shipment, a breach of contract provision, a cash-flow issue and possible funding issue.

If anyone questioned me as to why I still hold the stock after all this, from 67 to 20 cents, knowing about the shorting (I believe by Blumberg or his mates), the silly anns, I would be considered a clown. Yes, a real clown.

Or should I answer: "I have visions of a $1 or $2 in front of it..." No longer.

Embarrassing.

Um thats not quite correct there Spruik.

We were told the dermerger would be Feb/March, so its slipped a month or two - that's par for the course in the resource sector!

Old Warren himself said, the market ultimately "transfers the wealth from the impatient to the patient". :D

Hope you stick around to reap the rewards.

[GarryB]

Interesting times... still holding. Two quick questions for Shasta :-

1. are YOU PT ? ;)

and more seriously,

2. what is your estimate of unlocked value to come ? ( perhaps you'd like to guess the demerged entities share price the day after the ann)

Perhaps a varierty of folk would care to speculate out loud ?

[shasta]

Interesting times... still holding. Two quick questions for Shasta :-

1. are YOU PT ? ;)

and more seriously,

2. what is your estimate of unlocked value to come ? ( perhaps you'd like to guess the demerged entities share price the day after the ann)

Perhaps a varierty of folk would care to speculate out loud ?

No im not PT...:D

Garry - I fired out a rough valuation on page 59 of this thread.

(I adapted the State One report showing a $1.20 valuation pre-split with some updated figures.)

Tobo has also posted some interesting figures more recently.

[WASL]

Hi All,

There seem to be some very nervious Nelly's amongst the ADY holders.

Despite the atrocious annual report, the unexplained (to me at least) "provision for loss" on the iron ore contract, the apparently variable consolidation ratio, and the horrible market at present I am still a holder despite a 46% drop in the value of my holding. The current holding represents a non-insignificant 7% of my portfolio.

Why? It's the lithium. Every week one reads of the motor industry releasing or planning new hybrid cars - mostly due on the market within a 2-3 year period. Other alternatives such as hydrogen are along way off (20+ years). There has been a bit of comment lately (mainly in relation to the future of tollroad companies - TCL etc) regarding the high price of fuel moving people away from cars or discouraging the amassing of high annual mileages. It will also push them to more fuel efficient cars.

I have owned a lithium powered Toyota Prius for 8 months and think it is a great car. If you think I am a fuddy duddy; my previous car was a Subaru WRX (cut-cat stuff) and the one before that, a BMW Z3 (all show and no go).

Apologies for the ramble.

regards and

Good luck as always


WASL

[spruik]

Um thats not quite correct there Spruik.

We were told the dermerger would be Feb/March, so its slipped a month or two - that's par for the course in the resource sector!

Old Warren himself said, the market ultimately "transfers the wealth from the impatient to the patient". :D

Hope you stick around to reap the rewards.

Hmmm... "The meek shall inherit the world". So as long as I am meek I will surely inherit the world... doesn't any other criteria apply?

Surely, aren't you forgetting that SP is what's it all about. We all got so excited when going over 60. A lot of guys here have been a lot smarter than you and I, they sold over 60, over 50 and over 40... and they still have the option to buy back at the levels some of us are still holding.

Clearly the market is not too impressed with the upcoming demerger. Perhaps PT doesn't care as for all we know he may have converted and sold many options or done so by proxy. Since I learned of Blumberg I lost trust.

When is a meeting scheduled to approve the proposed share consolidation and demerger?

[shasta]

Hmmm... "The meek shall inherit the world". So as long as I am meek I will surely inherit the world... doesn't any other criteria apply?

Surely, aren't you forgetting that SP is what's it all about. We all got so excited when going over 60. A lot of guys here have been a lot smarter than you and I, they sold over 60, over 50 and over 40... and they still have the option to buy back at the levels some of us are still holding.

Clearly the market is not too impressed with the upcoming demerger. Perhaps PT doesn't care as for all we know he may have converted and sold many options or done so by proxy. Since I learned of Blumberg I lost trust.

When is a meeting scheduled to approve the proposed share consolidation and demerger?

We will receive the independent valuations around the same time we get the documentation for the EGM. (In April?)

Assuming the demerger resolutions are passed at the EGM, RLL will then be listed shortly thereafter. (Possibly May?)

Remember I sold 1/3 of my original holding at 63c (6 weeks after i first bought) & another 1/3 at 42.5c... im not losing money on ADY! :)

I have more shares now than i did to start with, but with the same $$$.

[Huang Chung]

I have owned a lithium powered Toyota Prius for 8 months and think it is a great car. If you think I am a fuddy duddy; my previous car was a Subaru WRX (cut-cat stuff) and the one before that, a BMW Z3 (all show and no go).


EEEEK! Your choice of cars isn't getting better with age I see. :D

Lots of talk about new Li cars, but how are they going to be priced? Just look at how diesel powered cars are only neiche players in Oz because of pricing (both the cost of the car and the fuel). Will Li cars be competitively priced, and thus serious mass market vehicles, or more a corporate flag waving exercise for auto makers to say 'Look World, we're a green company as well!'.

Unless they become truely mass market vehicles, their impact on the overall demand for Li would have to be questionable.

[WASL]

EEEEK! Your choice of cars isn't getting better with age I see. :D

Lots of talk about new Li cars, but how are they going to be priced? Just look at how diesel powered cars are only neiche players in Oz because of pricing (both the cost of the car and the fuel). Will Li cars be competitively priced, and thus serious mass market vehicles, or more a corporate flag waving exercise for auto makers to say 'Look World, we're a green company as well!'.

Unless they become truely mass market vehicles, their impact on the overall demand for Li would have to be questionable.

Hi HC,

You are right of course wrt price of hybrid vehicles. At the moment the Prius is not competatively priced and the early uptakers are the greenie bunch (me included). However as the price of fuel, incl diesel, increases and the cops make it more difficult to do a mountain road dash at 180 km/h, the trend will be to own vehicles that use less hydrocarbon fuel. The more hybrids sold the more they will be more competatively priced - an exponential curve.

Australia may well recognise its folly wrt petrol/diesel pricing and change but the main impetus will come from Europe - already mostly small cars and a lot of diesel - who are increasingly belly aching about the cost of hydrocarbon based fuels. Most French car makers have promised full hybrid range by 2010-2012. The yanks will take a much longer time.


Regards


WASL

[Packersoldkidney]

Shasta,

You are very enthusiastic about this company - have to admit in the old days of ST you might have got the ramping tag placed on you.

Not that I think it is possible to ramp a co. with the number of shares ADY has, but anyway.

Good luck with your investment - if support holds and market conditions improve for a time you might be OK with it.

[Halebop]

The automotive aspect is "sexy" and I suspect has a reasonable chance of delivering, but even assuming it navigates the vagaries of global energy prices, competing disruptive technologies, market acceptance and achieving economies of scale, the ramp up period is likely to take some time - think how long it takes new technologies to become ubiquitous - microwaves, television, video recorders, dvd players, telephone, cell phones, the combustion engine. My family was involved in the consumer eletronics industry at a wholesale level in Australia, we had microwaves and videos in the 70s - I can still remember Kids and Adults alike, wide eyed and asking what the hell they were - but it was some considerable time before a majority of households had them. And some of those technologies, no matter their merit (The 2nd Video Recorder around 1981 was a Betamax!) just don't fire off for reasons beyond simple arithmetic.

To avoid disappointment think of any increased automotive demand as incremental in a similar manner to the impact of appliances like power tools. Anything better will be a bonus but I suspect the Lithium industry will prove less than satisfactory if anyone is expecting a rocket trip - and really a few percentage points of annual growth can deliver great results anyway (and is absolutely required to support the potential supply from ADY).

[soulman]

We will receive the independent valuations around the same time we get the documentation for the EGM. (In April?)

Assuming the demerger resolutions are passed at the EGM, RLL will then be listed shortly thereafter. (Possibly May?)

Remember I sold 1/3 of my original holding at 63c (6 weeks after i first bought) & another 1/3 at 42.5c... im not losing money on ADY! :)

I have more shares now than i did to start with, but with the same $$$.

You just answer my question here. If I bought a share at $1 and sold at $1.60 within 2 months, I'll fall in love with that stock too. Your instant gratification have you hook on that stock and the industry it operate in and you will look into those sector for more opportunities.

I have done that too but sometimes you just got to let go.

[spruik]

We will receive the independent valuations around the same time we get the documentation for the EGM. (In April?)

Assuming the demerger resolutions are passed at the EGM, RLL will then be listed shortly thereafter. (Possibly May?)

Remember I sold 1/3 of my original holding at 63c (6 weeks after i first bought) & another 1/3 at 42.5c... im not losing money on ADY! :)

I have more shares now than i did to start with, but with the same $$$.

See, we still have unanswered questions.

And of course it's not all about wether you profited from ADY or not (in cash or number of shares), so no need to "remember" that. But please do remember that many people lost big-time who bought in over 20c. I also suspect some (maybe many) have been influenced NOT to sell because of your ramping at every corner in various places.

If those people haven't lost (by still holding), I suggest they worry. Should the SP crack 20, they are in big sh!t. At this time it remains a speccy.

Our forum readers (and those on HC) are far more interested in their own positions.

PS
Got woken up by a loud barking dog for over half an hour, hence my early post. Would be nice if people are more considerate towards others - applies to dogs and shorters...

[Brut]

It amazes me how many people fall in love with a stock.

Hasn't anyone on this thread ever heard of Stop Losses?

When I started trading/investing the number one rule was to preserve your capital. If you are holding a stock that falls 10% Get out, it's that simple! Maybe some of the people on here need to understand how to read charts.

[STRAT]

Hasn't anyone on this thread ever heard of Stop Losses?

When I started trading/investing the number one rule was to preserve your capital. If you are holding a stock that falls 10% Get out, it's that simple! Maybe some of the people on here need to understand how to read charts.
Hi Brut'
It would be hard to imagine how anyone on this site could say they have never heard of stop losses with Macdunk around but Im more amazed at how Spruik has decided Shasta is responsible for his or anyone elses investment decisions. You talk about people falling in love with a stock. What about people falling in love with a poster?

Spruik,
If you have lost money on ADY and you bought them based on Shasta's ramping ( your words not mine ) then that says more to me about you than it does about him. You blame him and his posts for misleading and misinforming newbies but you might want to have a wee look in the mirror. Some of your own previous posts oozing with adoration for Shasta to the point they occasionally made me cringe would have had no small part in influencing anyone who would be naive and lazy enough to buy a stock based solely on postings on an internet web site.

Time to ease up a tad I recon mate

[stevo1]

Hi Brut'
It would be hard to imagine how anyone on this site could say they have never heard of stop losses with Macdunk around but Im more amazed at how Spruik has decided Shasta is responsible for his or anyone elses investment decisions. You talk about people falling in love with a stock. What about people falling in love with a poster?

Spruik,
If you have lost money on ADY and you bought them based on Shasta's ramping ( your words not mine ) then that says more to me about you than it does about him. You blame him and his posts for misleading and misinforming newbies but you might want to have a wee look in the mirror. Some of your own previous posts oozing with adoration for Shasta to the point they occasionally made me cringe would have had no small part in influencing anyone who would be naive and lazy enough to buy a stock based solely on postings on an internet web site.

Time to ease up a tad I recon mate
Bear markets tend to make everone pretty grizzly and have not helped with ADY which could have and maybe still may perform very nicely or not.However it is no use beating up on Shasta who cannot be held responsible for sp performance or management or soley responsible for others decisions.Markets are made of differing views and positions held and different risk profiles.These are "interesting times" as the chinese would say.DYOR .I agree with Strat cut Shasta some slack

[spruik]

Hi Brut'
It would be hard to imagine how anyone on this site could say they have never heard of stop losses with Macdunk around but Im more amazed at how Spruik has decided Shasta is responsible for his or anyone elses investment decisions. You talk about people falling in love with a stock. What about people falling in love with a poster?

Spruik,
If you have lost money on ADY and you bought them based on Shasta's ramping ( your words not mine ) then that says more to me about you than it does about him. You blame him and his posts for misleading and misinforming newbies but you might want to have a wee look in the mirror. Some of your own previous posts oozing with adoration for Shasta to the point they occasionally made me cringe would have had no small part in influencing anyone who would be naive and lazy enough to buy a stock based solely on postings on an internet web site.

Time to ease up a tad I recon mate

Strat, posts about Shasta have been in the light of humor, you know that.

No, I have not lost money on ADY, quite the contrary. In all, my gains on ADY (after the rise from 12 to 20c) amount to some $70,000. This week the support at 20 was seriously tested after I sold, it may be tested again.

I was trading ADY in the 8-12c range long before Shasta bought in, so I would not suggest that Shasta is responsible for my investment decisions.

It's just a shame things have been going this way. As I am building a new home I had hoped I could finance the project from ADY's profit only, without touching other funds set aside for that.

[STRAT]

Strat, posts about Shasta have been in the light of humor, you know that.

.:eek:Acually I didnt. :o At times its not easy to read the mood behind a post.;)

These help a lot :):o:(:confused::mad::p:D:rolleyes:




;)

[shasta]

Shasta,

You are very enthusiastic about this company - have to admit in the old days of ST you might have got the ramping tag placed on you.

Not that I think it is possible to ramp a co. with the number of shares ADY has, but anyway.

Good luck with your investment - if support holds and market conditions improve for a time you might be OK with it.

In the old days PSK? :rolleyes:

Sheesh i log in before & see i've been sent to the dog's house :eek:

No wonder the likes of Robbo left ST, when ADY was going gangbusters in a bull market, i was the "bees knees", now i'm solely responsible for every ones losses? Fickle bunch here for sure.

I have an overall negative cost for ADY, but to appease the masses i shall tone down my support of ADY.

As the first person to put together any "reasonable valuation" on the thread, i'll leave it now to others to take over.

I've had enough...:mad:

[Packersoldkidney]

In the old days PSK? :rolleyes:

Sheesh i log in before & see i've been sent to the dog's house :eek:

No wonder the likes of Robbo left ST, when ADY was going gangbusters in a bull market, i was the "bees knees", now i'm solely responsible for every ones losses? Fickle bunch here for sure.

I have an overall negative cost for ADY, but to appease the masses i shall tone down my support of ADY.

As the first person to put together any "reasonable valuation" on the thread, i'll leave it now to others to take over.

I've had enough...:mad:

Wasn't really having a go at you Shasta. I've never called anyone on here a ramper. As I said on another thread yesterday, its a difference in styles between some posters and others. It's impossible to ramp a stock like ADY anyway given the number of its share issue.

IMO all of these stocks at the bottom end of the market are going to get hit further in the next few months - but if you think there is fundamental value here and you've done your research good luck to you.

[soulman]

I think Shasta is good for the forum. Positive thinking and positive thoughts. Therefore, he is a positive person in general and that's good in life.

Just sold ADY today at B/E. Suprise at the rise since all commodities fell down the earth this morning. Last week I did a nice trade on ADY grabbing it at 22.5 cents and sold out the next day, hence that's why I did it again this week.

Not sure I will be doing it again. Support for ADY might be at 20 cents but if it falls below that, it could well be down 15 cents. Not sure with 1 billion shares on issue ADY is worth that much. The same applies to Fortescue. The rest, capital rasing (a **** hole in this environment), debt, and cost blowout.

[h2so4]

In the old days PSK? :rolleyes:

Sheesh i log in before & see i've been sent to the dog's house :eek:

No wonder the likes of Robbo left ST, when ADY was going gangbusters in a bull market, i was the "bees knees", now i'm solely responsible for every ones losses? Fickle bunch here for sure.

I have an overall negative cost for ADY, but to appease the masses i shall tone down my support of ADY.

As the first person to put together any "reasonable valuation" on the thread, i'll leave it now to others to take over.

I've had enough...:mad:

It seems too many eyes are on the market. I only go there to see if anyone is doing anything foolish and it seems some of those fools are here on ST.:p

Keep posting Shasta

[Ttops]

It seems too many eyes are on the market. I only go there to see if anyone is doing anything foolish and it seems some of those fools are here on ST.:p

Keep posting Shasta

H2SO4
Agree with your astute comment. :) Posters take responsibility for your own decisions. Shasta has repeatedly stated DYOR. Keep posting Shasta.

My observation of recent posts is that several posters have cashed up and are trying to talk it down while criticising Shasta for the reverse. All the time hoping to buy back in at a lower price.
Its a sure sign to make every contrarion grin with delight to see experienced punters jumping ship. Even more exciting to see open unwarranted criticism of Shasta. A sure sign the market is really losing its cool and approaching peak depression. :cool:I hold absolutely no animosity Shasta. I mean did people really "get into" our banter about sp prediction.:D:D

I for one am still a believer in the medium to long term future of Li. In the short term it's suffering but its volume has been low. Must all be on ST ;)

Any comments on the success of the purification process? 99.3% pure at 75% yield. It seems that it was a simple process. They can make it as pure as they like. They will be improving the yield to get the purity they need in the most efficient way.

Keep positive Shasta. There will always be sore losers prepared to blame others for their own greed.

[spruik]

Shasta,

When you question someone why he sold based on that you have been buying, sort of implies that you know better. Maybe you do.

I never called you a "ramper", although I did call some of your posts "ramping". Like, someone who has some drinks isn't necessarily "a drunk".

But those who sold recently have been referred to as "fools" and "clowns" (see quotes below). Not just a foolish decision or a clown act, but fools and clowns. That's a bit of a personal putdown.


Reduced my holding by 90%.It appears can no longer rely on managements words.I am not an accountant but the accounts look a mess to me .(going concern?)Hope i am wrong but cant see the market being forgiving here.

Thus, Stevo1 is a fool and a clown.


Well, is it St Patrick's day or April Fool's Day?? Whatever, I'm afraid after that report my speculative days are over and I've departed ADY with a bit of a loss, about 3k. Never mind. I thought the Fed bandages might have done the trick for the American economy and so the world state but there's no markets that are immune and Auzzie is already bearing the brunt of inflation. With ADY outside that area of concern (I thought) I didn't expect to get blind sided by the half yrly report today. I'm now 70% in cash and will stay that way until about 2010 (lol), it'll take at least that long to get the world economy to balance it's books IMO.

That makes Jack Sprat also a fool and a clown.


I also quit today.

Frankly, I am tired of all the bullsh!t and the never ending praise and ramping up by one.

See you at 12c???

Another fool and clown.


I think Shasta is good for the forum. Positive thinking and positive thoughts. Therefore, he is a positive person in general and that's good in life.

Just sold ADY today at B/E. Suprise at the rise since all commodities fell down the earth this morning. Last week I did a nice trade on ADY grabbing it at 22.5 cents and sold out the next day, hence that's why I did it again this week.

Not sure I will be doing it again. Support for ADY might be at 20 cents but if it falls below that, it could well be down 15 cents. Not sure with 1 billion shares on issue ADY is worth that much. The same applies to Fortescue. The rest, capital rasing (a **** hole in this environment), debt, and cost blowout.

Soleman also a fool and clown? (he does say he "sold")...


It seems too many eyes are on the market. I only go there to see if anyone is doing anything foolish and it seems some of those fools are here on ST.:p

Keep posting Shasta

Here all the fools are doing foolish things (did notice the smily!) :)

We could simply agree that we disagree with someone else's decisions or opinions.

[The Big Ease]

i think the forum would be better served if posters stuck to debating the facts and "sharing" opinions.

shasta gets caught up in trying to convince everyone of the merits of his two puppies ady and ura with largely speculative claims of when market sensitive announcements will "surely" be made. i dont think its healthy for the board when this is the continued basis of his posts. perhaps this would not be such a bad thing, but they are a large proportion of his prolific posts..

thats not having a go. its just the way it is.
i think you do some excellent work with you analysis shasta. but there is no doubt you are a cheerleader.

[soulman]

I might be a fool and a clown but I did sold ADY at break even this week and made 2 profitable trades before this outs. Apparently, with ADY closing at 23 cents, it might have been 3 out of 3.

I will look into ADY profit report this weekend.

[spruik]

The most amusing thing about this thread over the last day is the PC way you are all trying to criticise, its pathetic

I think you are a ramper, kind of, but I never really said that

I hold you responsible, but I never said I hold you responsible


and as for you Spruik, saying it was some kind of fun, light poke, man you are on drugs. Face up man, you were pissed and it showed, no need to start playing it down now.


nanby pamby lettuce leaves:mad:

Connecting ADY's share price variations to his recovery or the state of his legs anything other some humor??? Get real.

Now I am on drugs... no end to this crap, is there?

[stevo1]

The most amusing thing about this thread over the last day is the PC way you are all trying to criticise, its pathetic

I think you are a ramper, kind of, but I never really said that

I hold you responsible, but I never said I hold you responsible


and as for you Spruik, saying it was some kind of fun, light poke, man you are on drugs. Face up man, you were pissed and it showed, no need to start playing it down now.


nanby pamby lettuce leaves:mad:

Sector grow the %$#* up.This forum is about markets and shares not some schoolgirl (sorry ladies)playground vendetta against various members you have decided to pick on for whatever reason.Act like an adult instead of a little b#$## (nanby pamby lettuce leaves)

[Packersoldkidney]

The most amusing thing about this thread over the last day is the PC way you are all trying to criticise, its pathetic

I think you are a ramper, kind of, but I never really said that

I hold you responsible, but I never said I hold you responsible


and as for you Spruik, saying it was some kind of fun, light poke, man you are on drugs. Face up man, you were pissed and it showed, no need to start playing it down now.


nanby pamby lettuce leaves:mad:

http://www.photodump.org/stored15/ethug.jpg

[Packersoldkidney]

I think Packers owes Shasta an apology for that unprovoked attack. His mother should never have been brought into it.

---------?

[soulman]

Wow, how can anyone not sell after seeing this report that were suspicious marked as 'not sensitive announcement'.

The audit report state the going concern issue and ADY literally have a high employee expense this year. Higher cost eating into this mining minnow.

For a company that are cap at $200mil, not making a profit this year, the demerger is just another distraction and costly to shareholders, I will not be buying ADY until they are 5 cents (even lower than Spruik 12 cents). I can say that the demerger here is not value creating at all, rather a sideway distraction. And the daily useless announcement kept coming because management are scared themselves and trying to hold the share price up. I hope for all ADY shareholder that there will be no forseeable placement as anything like this will be negative (as with as capital raising in this environment). And especially the flagged going concern issue.

For Shasta, don't worry about the in-specie distribution, the CSR demerger, the WMC demerger or even the BHP Steel demerger from BHP is better value than this.

This is like when One-Tel kept announcing huge losses and the share price did nothing until the inevitable.

[Revhead]

This thread reminds me of the old days! :)

[tricha]

I think Packers owes Shasta an apology for that unprovoked attack. His mother should never have been brought into it.

I think u better re-read the post Major, he was refering to the E Thug Sector.

Top stuff Packer, hit the nail on the head

[Packersoldkidney]

I think Packers owes Shasta an apology for that unprovoked attack. His mother should never have been brought into it.

I was confused at first at what you were referring to, but now, after a few ales and keeping half an eye on the penultimate episodes of the truly amazing TV series 'The Wire', I am much clearer.

So now that I have been rumbled by Major, I have to say that I apologise for possibly having sexual intercourse with Shasta's mum - while it wasn't quite an attack it might have left her feeling as if it was - if it was the night in question his Mum was brought into it because his Aunt knocked me back. I am not calling into question the piety and monogamy and loyalty of Shasta's mother to Shasta's father - it's just that I'm not damn sure if I haven't had sex with any of the mothers of any of the posters here on ST. I really have no idea, but it is possible. It depends on if she hangs out in some of the bars I frequent over here in Australia.

Major, I might have also bedded your ma. If I haven't I'm very sorry for the insinuation, but if I have I can assure you it was a night she would have never forgotten. Could have been your sister as well. If it were her that gave me that yellow discharge and made me wince through that excruciating chlamydia exam where they shoved that tube up my Jap's eye then she repayed me for the three days of bow-leggedness she went through afterwards in full.

I wasn't clear at first Major, but now I think we are on the same page.

[Packersoldkidney]

E - Idiot? (sorry don`t have a picture) but that was pretty dull humour

at least you found a friend in Tricha, what a catch

....and I'm sorry about your Mum as well, and though Queensland is the home of the starfish, though I tried to flip her on her back she wouldn't get out of the star - as I recall this picture was on the mantel under the label 'Only Son':

http://www.thebluething.com/img/internet-soldier.jpg

[Packersoldkidney]

better make it your last beer POK, getting rather sad now, but I do now understand your need to resort to mums though, that kidney is sure getting a workout.

Your Mum's kidney certainly did.

[The Big Ease]

what is going on here?!?!
nobody is covering themselves in glory with this nonsense.

[macduffy]

what is going on here?!?!
nobody is covering themselves in glory with this nonsense.


Too true, TBE.
I won't be wasting my time looking at the ADY thread any more but its been very revealing as an insight on some of the "contributors".

:eek:

[STRAT]

LMFAO

Thought Id logged onto the PLS thread by mistake.

Prozac all round is required I recon :D:D

[Year of the Tiger]

LMFAO

Thought Id logged onto the PLS thread by mistake.

Prozac all round is required I recon :D:D

I don't know about the prozac STRAT, but I'm sure as hell thinking some people have got something in their Easter Eggs that I didn't get in mine...:rolleyes:

YOTT

[JackSprat]

Oh hello All,
Did I miss something in my brief absence, in the brief time ago I said I had sold my ADY shares, I think last Wednesday, because it sounds like everyone is imploding.
In my line of work it's called "horizontal violence" which basically means when management start giving the workers a hard time the workers start attacking each other.
Well, human nature. I would just like to add that in my opinion Shasta has all the right in the world to post whatever he wants here just as you and I do and I only hope he keeps doing so because what he had to say was professional, positive and enthusiastic.
Oh and PS: I bought back in at .21c :D

[shasta]

Oh hello All,
Did I miss something in my brief absence, in the brief time ago I said I had sold my ADY shares, I think last Wednesday, because it sounds like everyone is imploding.
In my line of work it's called "horizontal violence" which basically means when management start giving the workers a hard time the workers start attacking each other.
Well, human nature. I would just like to add that in my opinion Shasta has all the right in the world to post whatever he wants here just as you and I do and I only hope he keeps doing so because what he had to say was professional, positive and enthusiastic.
Oh and PS: I bought back in at .21c :D

Whilst everyone is scoffing easter eggs, grab a coffee (or tea) & have a read on what ADY has been up to...

http://www.ady.com.au/uploads/asx_announcement/37bc2f75bf1bcfe8450a1a41c200364c.pdf

Lets see if we can keep the thread "on topic".

[Vince]

Guys,

I've had numerous complaints from members about the tone of this thread in general, & the content of some of the posts directed at others, - which contain some rather derogatory comments regarding peoples up-bringings etc..

Please keep things in check & On-Topic; - or at least give it a try:)

Regards,
Vince

[JackSprat]

Now that is a good report!

[Ttops]

Whilst everyone is scoffing easter eggs, grab a coffee (or tea) & have a read on what ADY has been up to...

http://www.ady.com.au/uploads/asx_announcement/37bc2f75bf1bcfe8450a1a41c200364c.pdf

Lets see if we can keep the thread "on topic".

Am sick to death of chocolate at present Shasta ;) so took your advice. I went back to ADY's site. I/O is looking good but how about K

http://www.ady.com.au/pdf/pdf7_050727_rincon_salar_JORC_estimate.pdf
This looks well out of date given the recent demand for K?
I was prompted by a CNBC video with analysts discussing the falling commodity prices as the $US rerated up.(Can't remember which one sorry.) But not all commodities they said. Russia just did a deal with India for $670/t apparently $70 above spot price and $400 over where they were last year. Producers have pricing power. Demand is up. IO mentioned as well as being in demand. RLL must benefit long term anyway from the demand for K. Would like to know how long before they can benefit from their K?Any estimates? The world has to eat.:) Maybe not so much chocolate though. :mad: Anyone else regret this morning?:eek:

[shasta]

Am sick to death of chocolate at present Shasta ;) so took your advice. I went back to ADY's site. I/O is looking good but how about K

http://www.ady.com.au/pdf/pdf7_050727_rincon_salar_JORC_estimate.pdf
This looks well out of date given the recent demand for K?
I was prompted by a CNBC video with analysts discussing the falling commodity prices as the $US rerated up.(Can't remember which one sorry.) But not all commodities they said. Russia just did a deal with India for $670/t apparently $70 above spot price and $400 over where they were last year. Producers have pricing power. Demand is up. IO mentioned as well as being in demand. RLL must benefit long term anyway from the demand for K. Would like to know how long before they can benefit from their K?Any estimates? The world has to eat.:) Maybe not so much chocolate though. :mad: Anyone else regret this morning?:eek:

Treetops

From the ADY March 08 presentation states KC1 pricing (Potash) between $US175-275, per ton. (PT being conservative for a change? :eek:)

They have already produced 20T of Potash as part of the Pilot plant, being the by-product of the Lithium products produced to date.

The report states "Full scale production scheduled for June - Sept 09, subject to evaporation".

I take from that, the Potash will increase incrementally over the time it takes to get the Lithium into full production.

Key aspect for me, is will they sell it at "market rates", or look to obtain a supply/sales agreement?

Will any Lithium agreement include the Potash, i hope not!

I've found some useful info on Potash on here...

http://www.athabascapotash.ca/potashrssfeeds.xhtml

[Ttops]

Treetops

From the ADY March 08 presentation states KC1 pricing (Potash) between $US175-275, per ton. (PT being conservative for a change? :eek:)

They have already produced 20T of Potash as part of the Pilot plant, being the by-product of the Lithium products produced to date.

The report states "Full scale production scheduled for June - Sept 09, subject to evaporation".

I take from that, the Potash will increase incrementally over the time it takes to get the Lithium into full production.

Key aspect for me, is will they sell it at "market rates", or look to obtain a supply/sales agreement?

Will any Lithium agreement include the Potash, i hope not!

I've found some useful info on Potash on here...

http://www.athabascapotash.ca/potashrssfeeds.xhtml

Thanks Shasta
Better news than I thought. A byproduct that is saleable now. Two bangs for your buck aint bad.:)

[spruik]

Half yearly report - convenient to forget

Material Uncertainty Regarding Continuation as a Going Concern

... We draw you attention to Note 1(e) in the half-year financial report which indicates that the consolidated entity has accumulated losses as at 31 December 2007 of $50,962,251 and has incurred a loss of $27,106,272 for the period ended 31 December 2007. These conditions indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the ability of the company to continue as a going concern.

Basic and diluted loss per share $2.10 (2006 $0.56)

Will take a long time before a dividend is seen... at the current expenditure rate they will need a lot more money than the $2m held in cash.

[shasta]

Half yearly report - convenient to forget

Material Uncertainty Regarding Continuation as a Going Concern

... We draw you attention to Note 1(e) in the half-year financial report which indicates that the consolidated entity has accumulated losses as at 31 December 2007 of $50,962,251 and has incurred a loss of $27,106,272 for the period ended 31 December 2007. These conditions indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the ability of the company to continue as a going concern.

Basic and diluted loss per share $2.10 (2006 $0.56)

Will take a long time before a dividend is seen... at the current expenditure rate they will need a lot more money than the $2m held in cash.

Spruik

On March 21 , a shipment of Iron Ore left the port, worth just over $9m (some 48000T odd), with around another 100,000T stockpiled at the port awaiting shipment.

Theres another $20m when shipped later this month/early April?

Agree, its not looking too flash at the moment, but remember from that loss figure you quoted, $13m is merely a non cash "provision".

I expect that to be reversed during the next half.

[soulman]

Shasta, Spruik said it all. Read the report again.

The revenue from the shipment of iron ore vs capital expenditure and paying day-to-day expenses including wages.

ADY down again today and when it drop below 20 cents, watch out for 12 cents.

[shasta]

Shasta, Spruik said it all. Read the report again.

The revenue from the shipment of iron ore vs capital expenditure and paying day-to-day expenses including wages.

ADY down again today and when it drop below 20 cents, watch out for 12 cents.

I don't care what Spruik says, it's uninformed rubbish...

Perhaps Spruik can explain to the thread why the need to constantly downramp on H/C & post the same here?

No credibility i'm afraid.

BTW - There is a line of credit that ADY can drawdown, if required.

[shasta]

I don't care what Spruik says, it's uninformed rubbish...

Perhaps Spruik can explain to the thread why the need to constantly downramp on H/C & post the same here?

No credibility i'm afraid.

BTW - There is a line of credit that ADY can drawdown, if required.

Damn i couldn't edit that last post.

I don't need to be belittled with intepretting financials, i am an Accountant with an extensive Audit background. :eek:

[spruik]

Damn i couldn't edit that last post.

I don't need to be belittled with intepretting financials, i am an Accountant with an extensive Audit background. :eek:

As an accountant with an extensive audit background, you appear to have dismissed ADY's audited report as "uninformed rubbish".

I just quoted from the report.

Same debate on HC. There are the uprampers, the downrampers and "middle" rampers (?). I downramped nothing. I don't say they have nothing (like some have claimed on HC).

People get hurt when only thinking of the potentials without considering cold facts. The carpet could be swept from under this venture if ADY doesn't get it right.

I understand you can be upset about my posts, but you shouldn't be.

[Packersoldkidney]

what is going on here?!?!
nobody is covering themselves in glory with this nonsense.

Well, have to admit lowered myself to the level of Secta in a few posts (!!)

....maybe even a bit lower still.

Think I said in another thread the other day we are due a good week in the market and it looks like its here. These resource micro caps will get a kick along this week at some stage.

[spruik]

Since I am not allowed to "downramp" on 2 forums, I'll just quote from Blythefan on HC, posted after my first post on this topic:



I bailed this dog this morning - way, way too risky.

Items of concern:
1) $13M loss on the CFR contract. That's a lot of pain. OK, they sold a shipload of Fe at spot prices, good on them, but this is a much greater sign of trouble than just a financial problem they can work their way out of by selling on spot. Number one, they clearly can't write contracts which benefit them, and/or can't meet them. Is this a dishonour fee on the unmet part of the WISCO deal from 2007? How are they going to go in enforcing and meeting contracts for the lithium?

2) The mining rate is 30Kt per month, a far cry short of the 100Kt er month bandied about repeatedly by PT in his reports last year. Remember, by now we were supposed to be at 100Kt per month. Sure, shortages of machinery, etc etc, but again a sign of incompetent management at some level within ADY and inability to meet goals - very negative.

3) Anthony Blumberg quits to "concentrate on Opes Prime". This is the first rat to leave the holed, torpedoes and flaming wreck of SS ADY. Which greedy self-serving director (they all are) would ever give up a nice stipend to concentrate on another listed entity? I kknow of some (eg Sadlier, Gillard) who have been on up to 6 boards at once, from time to time. Blumberg quitting is similar to the guys at Bendigo quitting just before the prat fall.

4) Debts upon debts. I think the RLL spin-off is aimed at quarantining the lithium business from the imminent implosion of Ciera Minera Santa Barbara. You spin off the best assets into a new vehicle, slough as much of the debt into the crappy dead horse as you can, and then duck into the trenches while it detonates. You still have your lithium! Whoopee....IF YOU CAN GET IT OFF IN TIME. CMSB is a ticking time bomb, and ADY's inability to complete the spin-off is a MAJOR risk for those who are "in it for the lithium". For me, too much of a risk. Sure, it'll be like a helium balloon once the dead horse of CMSB is cut loose...but not if the "going concerns" stop going...

5) Delays upon delays. We got the pilot plant a few months behind schedule. Fine. Happy. Now its ISO certification - a major risk. If they don't get it, their lithium sells for sub $5000/t, not $18,000/t. And they are forward selling the profits from their mining even before they've proved they can get the profits! Dodgy. Especially as now the delays are mounting. note that they've stopped the non-core bits of the operation, such as that other salt mine they bought to streamline the lithium mine. The iron mine is not going to get going till late 2009 at the nameplate capacity the company advertised mid last year as being ready by now.

6) Poor disclosure. The magnitude of the contract losses weren't particularly well disclosed. The contract risks are very poorly communicated - and especially so regarding the lithium transactions. As W Buffett says - only invest in something you understand.

Me, I'm out. Caveat emptor.





Juk, Apex has the Mark Ashley factor. Also, gold is good at the moment, and its not hard to convince US hedge funds to dip into the pot for a relatively small gamble on a proven name, in a proven goldfield, backed by proven exploration geo's, on a simple proven processing stream, in a commodity which is hotter than lithium right now.

Convincing Westpac, Macquaries and/or CBA that they should take 100% of the risk on an unproven lithium venture on people who've been through the wringer of Tantalum Australia, on an unmined deposit, is an entirely different beastie.

Similarly, it is a very dicey situation for ADY when they have given a lien over their Fe stockpile (+110Kt @ $189/t on spot prices = $20M+ of value to a bank) on a $10M to a bank. One minuscule stuff-up, and the bank will foreclose on a $10M debt and seize $20M+ of already mined, virtually free to ship iron ore fines sitting on a dock in Chile.

If I was a bank, I'd think that was a damn fine deal. As an ADY shareholder, an unacceptable risk for a "going concern". I might be wrong - if ADY is flawless in their execution and operations from hereon in, they'll pay off the loan or sell more shares to dupes, and move the Fe and work it all out. Maybe.

DYOR, caveat emptor, and all IMHO, etc.

[stevo1]

Damn i couldn't edit that last post.

I don't need to be belittled with intepretting financials, i am an Accountant with an extensive Audit background. :eek:

Looks as though the loss may be realised with ADY having entered fixed CFR contract in 2006 because of inability of contractors to met production targets.If shipping rates reduce(doubtful) may reduce loss.

[soulman]

Don't get me wrong, if ADY holds above 20 cents, it might as well go to 30. But is this coy worth $300 million?

The constant update to shareholders on good news (like today) is a worrying because Mr Clarke and Mr Thomas are trying to spruik up their coy due to their lagging share price.

The only way to spruik your coy is to buy plenty of shares on market, not exercising your already in-the-money 10 cents options.

[shasta]

Don't get me wrong, if ADY holds above 20 cents, it might as well go to 30. But is this coy worth $300 million?

The constant update to shareholders on good news (like today) is a worrying because Mr Clarke and Mr Thomas are trying to spruik up their coy due to their lagging share price.

The only way to spruik your coy is to buy plenty of shares on market, not exercising your already in-the-money 10 cents options.

Soulman

Don't you think after issuing shareholders with a "going concern" statement regarding cashflow, that we should be informed of such transactions?

Granted we don't need to know every time the receptionist goes to the bank, but i thought this is on the right track to "reassure" shareholders that funds are forthcoming.

Probably didn't need to be marked price sensitive though.

[stevo1]

The ann did make a difference to market perception .21.5 prior 23.5 after ann.So must have reassured some market factions.

[Ttops]

Since I am not allowed to "downramp" on 2 forums, I'll just quote from Blythefan on HC, posted after my first post on this topic:
spruik
I would never have guessed had you not said.;) I prefer both + and -comments anyway to keep things balanced and in perspective. Maybe shasta and spruik need equal time. It is after all election year.:D

{Re:Blythefan no5 see below "Now its ISO certification - a major risk. If they don't get it, their lithium sells for sub $5000/t, not $18,000/t. And they are forward selling the profits from their mining even before they've proved they can get the profits!"}

The iso cert is certain to happen isn't it. I thought they had proved the process? They state they can produce any purity required. Is it only the beurocratic delay getting it or is there more to these iso certs? Presumeably a degree of consistency in production stds is required to be proved.

Re anns Soulman. Positive or not I like to be informed. The market decides what it thinks and an informed market is more accurate. You can't complain about that.:confused: A surge to 30 wouldn't go amiss if you say so :)

[shasta]

spruik
I would never have guessed had you not said.;) I prefer both + and -comments anyway to keep things balanced and in perspective. Maybe shasta and spruik need equal time. It is after all election year.:D

{Re:Blythefan no5 see below "Now its ISO certification - a major risk. If they don't get it, their lithium sells for sub $5000/t, not $18,000/t. And they are forward selling the profits from their mining even before they've proved they can get the profits!"}

The iso cert is certain to happen isn't it. I thought they had proved the process? They state they can produce any purity required. Is it only the beurocratic delay getting it or is there more to these iso certs? Presumeably a degree of consistency in production stds is required to be proved.

Re anns Soulman. Positive or not I like to be informed. The market decides what it thinks and an informed market is more accurate. You can't complain about that.:confused: A surge to 30 wouldn't go amiss if you say so :)

Treetops

To get the Lithium better than 99.9% purity is only a slightly more involved process that is meant to cost around an extra $2,000T to produce.

At present there isn't a high demand for the almost pure Li, probably as the price is prohibitive unless it's a specific requirement.

As far as the ISO certification, i thought thats what the pilot plant was for to highlight the processes required? (The Bolivians were impressed!)

I would like to think it's a formality & that we are in the process of obtaining this?

If not, then it is a substantial risk & one i'm sure has already been considered?

[Mothman]

I loved the fact that " The Bolivians were impressed". I would have thought they knew a thing or two about refining white powder... :)

[spruik]

Treetops

To get the Lithium better than 99.9% purity is only a slightly more involved process that is meant to cost around an extra $2,000T to produce.

At present there isn't a high demand for the almost pure Li, probably as the price is prohibitive unless it's a specific requirement.

As far as the ISO certification, i thought thats what the pilot plant was for to highlight the processes required? (The Bolivians were impressed!)

I would like to think it's a formality & that we are in the process of obtaining this?

If not, then it is a substantial risk & one i'm sure has already been considered?

Shasta, going by your 2 question marks, are you a little less confident on ADY than before?

[Bobbyvee]

As Spruik noted on 23rd "Anthony Blumberg quits to concentrate on Opes Prime"

I see today that ANZ have appointed Receivers to Opes Prime -
"Following the appointment of a Voluntary Administrator by the Directors of Opes Prime Group Limited and the subsequent appointment by ANZ of Receivers, ANZ today advised its lending exposure to Opes Prime was supported by security in a portfolio of Australian equities."

Interesting!

[shasta]

Shasta, going by your 2 question marks, are you a little less confident on ADY than before?

Spruik

It's an issue i would assume was already in hand, however i don't know that it's 100% sorted.

If they haven't sorted this ISO requirement, i'd be asking a few hard questions!

[spruik]

As Spruik noted on 23rd "Anthony Blumberg quits to concentrate on Opes Prime"

I see today that ANZ have appointed Receivers to Opes Prime -
"Following the appointment of a Voluntary Administrator by the Directors of Opes Prime Group Limited and the subsequent appointment by ANZ of Receivers, ANZ today advised its lending exposure to Opes Prime was supported by security in a portfolio of Australian equities."

Interesting!

Blumberg might be out of a job now and re-apply at ADY... :) but what will he get up to this time? :D

[shasta]

Blumberg might be out of a job now and re-apply at ADY... :) but what will he get up to this time? :D

In a very perverse way, some "free options" :D

[stevo1]

As Spruik noted on 23rd "Anthony Blumberg quits to concentrate on Opes Prime"

I see today that ANZ have appointed Receivers to Opes Prime -
"Following the appointment of a Voluntary Administrator by the Directors of Opes Prime Group Limited and the subsequent appointment by ANZ of Receivers, ANZ today advised its lending exposure to Opes Prime was supported by security in a portfolio of Australian equities."

Interesting!

See Administrators also cover Leverage Capitol and Hawkswood Inv. which hold 80mill (from memory) ADY shares

[boxing_beaver]

New announcement. Can someone explain what it means to me please? :D http://www.stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=ADY&E=ASX&N=198124

[shasta]

New announcement. Can someone explain what it means to me please? :D http://www.stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=ADY&E=ASX&N=198124

BB

Means PT & the "other associated entities" will likely sell down there ADY holdings to finance the margin loan...

It's not good news i'm afraid, will we re-test 20c this afternoon?

[boxing_beaver]

ah right, thats pretty much what I thought it meant! :S

certainly not good news... volume seems to have picked up as it goes down down down....

[seaosh]

Wow, that last announcement stinks. . . You have to question things if the guys running the company are making leveraged plays on the stock. It paints them as having a very short-termist and opportunistic attitude.

I reckon if it closes below 20 I'm out. Means realizing a big paper loss, but I'll still be ahead on the stock overall so can't complain too much.

[shasta]

Wow, that last announcement stinks. . . You have to question things if the guys running the company are making leveraged plays on the stock. It paints them as having a very short-termist and opportunistic attitude.

I reckon if it closes below 20 I'm out. Means realizing a big paper loss, but I'll still be ahead on the stock overall so can't complain too much.

Seaosh

Seems many here are taking a short term view on ADY, why?

During 2009 ADY & RLL will be close to full production capacity & making plenty of profits/cashflow...

Even if the whole amount of the margin loan was repaid by the sale of ADY shares (& we dont know that, i've assumed they may) , its a small % of the total shares on issue.

The problem here is what games have PT & Tony Blumberg being playing?

There isnt anyone that i know of, with ADY on margin loan so im not quite sure how this came about (unless using ADY shares as security, i assume?)

Not good timing for this ann

[Damo79]

Wow, what a mess... Not good for poor old PT, or us if the shares are being sold down by ANZ as we speak to cover the loan.

However... and here's me clutching at straws for a positive... we now know that the PT was pretty heavily geared with his shares in ADY. Suggests that he really is pretty confident in the company. The fact that he's now screwed doesn't change that ;)

[STRAT]

So now ANZ have a stake in ADY. :rolleyes:
I expect the market to take a dim view of it and there may be issues of trust but while this may be a bit of a crisis for PT is it really a crisis for ADY?

[winner69]

Reading other stories ANZ prob now own ALL the ADY shares that PT had with that firm ... and won't be selling just those to cover the loan

[shasta]

Reading other stories ANZ prob now own ALL the ADY shares that PT had with that firm ... and won't be selling just those to cover the loan

PT explains all on Topstocks...

Dear Top stockers

I just want to make sure you all understand the facts.

ADY has no loans, or any other connection with OPES-Prime. Hawkswood a private investment firm loaned us $10m and to show their support bought 80 million shares and continue to provide fantastic support. Their funding is NOT Australian based.

Regarding my loan if and when I get contacted by Deloitte to repay the facility I will write a cheque. As I have declared on the ASX I hold 47 million ADY shares which makes this portfolio worth $9.4m alone. As declared I have no other debt.

Most other people with loans will go to ANZ margin lending who are offering a 40% gearing ratio in a diversified stock portfolio of at least 4 shares. Then there is the strategy of equity swaps etc etc so it is possible to finance as much as you need with more than one firm.

Opes Prime and Leveraged equity going into Administration is the best thing since sliced bread for us - a regrettable circumstance for them. It gets rid of - in one pass - all the margined daytraders who are selling into good annoucements, so in my experience (I went through this in 1987 as director of broking firm with a large margin lending business that survived and worked with other administrators on the disposal side of shares) my view is it will take Deloitte probably the best part of six months to work out who owes what and how to recover it and three years to complete the job. Its the basket cases they will address first like MFS, Aristocrat etc etc.

The best part is the Deloitte guys are experts at selling stock not like the amateur day traders and its in their best interests to maintain the price (to keep margin ratios in tact) so don't expect to see big dump lines as its not going to happen. Pls note TS's that posted this!!

ADY is going from strength to strength as reported in the announcements and while like all companies we have had our setbacks we have a great management team in place, good strong clients, operations improving all the time and a clear well defined action plan to achieve our goals which we continually reassess. Notwithstanding the free lunch you will get when the demerger goes through from the upward P/E adjustment!

regards

Phil Thomas
PS The ASX announcement has been incorrectly interpretted by a few who think ADY has a loan from Opes against my stock - its not it me.

[macduffy]

So now ANZ have a stake in ADY. :rolleyes:
I expect the market to take a dim view of it and there may be issues of trust but while this may be a bit of a crisis for PT is it really a crisis for ADY?

I think its largely a question of what price ANZ need to achieve to recover their loan. And it may be that PT will emerge from this " transaction" with a profit - depending on the price he paid for this particular parcel.
On the other hand, its not good for ADY sp as there's bound to be selling pressure, particularly if ANZ take the view that they want out quickly, irrespective of the price they need to cover their loan - and especially if they are looking to " make up " a shortfall on some other loan(s) to the broker.
No, not a crisis for ADY but bad news for its sp, at least short term.

[macduffy]

In view of PT's explanation, please disregard my above post.

[winner69]

This from another story sort of suggests that PT might have lost (control) of all the shares he had left with Opes and just writing a cheque out might not fix the matter

Opes’ business model is, or rather was, that it lends as a finance broker on commission on behalf of ANZ and Merrill Lynch and takes full ownership of the scrip provided as collateral.

and

For example, I heard of a real case this morning of an investor who bought $1 million worth shares through Opes, of which $250,000 was borrowed. The entire $1 million has now been lost and the investor becomes an unsecured creditor of Opes Prime.

[winner69]

Agree not a ADY company matter per se .... but has implications for the shareprice ... short term

(Bloody 1 minute to EDIT is a pain isn't it)

[spruik]

So now ANZ have a stake in ADY. :rolleyes:
I expect the market to take a dim view of it and there may be issues of trust but while this may be a bit of a crisis for PT is it really a crisis for ADY?

I was earlier today thinking if Opus Prime might have any impact on ADY (thinking about Blumberg). Looks like it has.

PT may have advised the ASX about his margin loan but did he advise the market? I was not aware of that (maybe a missed it somewhere).

His shares may be a "small" relative to those on issue, but it's another matter to sell them on market, if necessary.

PT will write a cheque, for the cheque not to bounce he needs to have the fund available or he will hock them with someone else.

Might crack the 20c again on Monday.

[steve fleming]

This PT guy sounds like a bit of an amateur.

An hour or so after ADY releases a damaging market sensitive announcement he goes to an internet chat site to explain himself??

Most credible CEO's would be frantically working the phone talking to major shareholders/institutions and/or organising a tele-conference.


Opes Prime and Leveraged equity going into Administration is the best thing since sliced bread for us Errr....how does a broker going into VA relate to ADY moving into succesful production????


Its the basket cases they will address first like MFS, Aristocrat etc etc.Thats just a bizzare comment that is categoricallly wrong...for a CEO of a public company to wrongly have a go at another listed company on a public forum is poor form.

There are so many other errors that he has made in his Top Stocks statement, I can't be bothered listing them all.

Comes across as a real amateur to me.

[Mothman]

Agree something just doesn't smell right with the management...but I still hold in hope of a demerger and some lithium production ;)

Have you guys seen Phils CV from this site? Strange.

http://www.wtfs.com.au/contact.html

[soulman]

I was earlier today thinking if Opus Prime might have any impact on ADY (thinking about Blumberg). Looks like it has.

PT may have advised the ASX about his margin loan but did he advise the market? I was not aware of that (maybe a missed it somewhere).

His shares may be a "small" relative to those on issue, but it's another matter to sell them on market, if necessary.

PT will write a cheque, for the cheque not to bounce he needs to have the fund available or he will hock them with someone else.

Might crack the 20c again on Monday.

Spruik, get ready for 17.5 cents Monday.

Had a look at PT. An old timer with an amateur behaviour. In the same mould of Michael King and Andrew Peocock of MFS. Most of these executives have low IQ as illustrated by a recent study. You are way right Winner, executive that goes to chat forum confirmed PT is a share punter himself and he and his mate Blumberg are in it together to make a fortune for themselves trading shares, not running ADY as they are supposed to.

And wow that last paragraph is a cracker. Free lunch on the Rincon shares. Hey PT, nothing in this world are free. Maybe free will. Regardless of the forum, that is really unprofessional and once again, my feeling that he and Clarke (is that Australian young cricketer??? just joking!) are trying to spruik the coy up based on nonsense announcement for their own vested interest.

[shasta]

This PT guy sounds like a bit of an amateur.

An hour or so after ADY releases a damaging market sensitive announcement he goes to an internet chat site to explain himself??

Most credible CEO's would be frantically working the phone talking to major shareholders/institutions and/or organising a tele-conference.

Errr....how does a broker going into VA relate to ADY moving into succesful production????

Thats just a bizzare comment that is categoricallly wrong...for a CEO of a public company to wrongly have a go at another listed company on a public forum is poor form.

There are so many other errors that he has made in his Top Stocks statement, I can't be bothered listing them all.

Comes across as a real amateur to me.

SF

The ann did mention PT personally & associated entities, he has every right to "clear the air" so to speak on his position (with 47m shares in ADY, he owns a few more than me).

I would have preferred that ADY make an announcement to the market clarifying this issue, not PT in a personal capacity.

As you say, to go onto Topstocks & explain it was poor form & appears to be a deseparate measure to protect his own investment in ADY.

The Directors actions over the last couple of weeks, leaves alot to be desired.

I still believe ADY/RLL can deliver, im just not so bullish as i was, & am viewing my own position in ADY.

[steve fleming]

Micheal West has a bit to say about ADY.....

http://business.smh.com.au/opes-goes-subprime/20080328-223z.html

"Admiralty Resources may have admirable prospects as an exploration company but its balance sheet has $2.3 million of cash on $28 million of bank debts and its P&L shows income of $2.6 million on expenses of $39 million for a loss at the last report of $27 million. That is, it is high-risk. Yet this is the sort of thing which Opes, and Tricom for that matter, encouraged their clients to borrow against. LVRs of 75% against explorers."

"Like Tricom, ANZ and Merrill were the bankers and the securities were not all S&P/ASX 200 stocks as we noted. The small company holdings will be hard to offload without driving market prices down dramatically. Hence the release from Admiralty today, whose shares were getting trounced."

[shasta]

Micheal West has a bit to say about ADY.....

http://business.smh.com.au/opes-goes-subprime/20080328-223z.html

"Admiralty Resources may have admirable prospects as an exploration company but its balance sheet has $2.3 million of cash on $28 million of bank debts and its P&L shows income of $2.6 million on expenses of $39 million for a loss at the last report of $27 million. That is, it is high-risk. Yet this is the sort of thing which Opes, and Tricom for that matter, encouraged their clients to borrow against. LVRs of 75% against explorers."

"Like Tricom, ANZ and Merrill were the bankers and the securities were not all S&P/ASX 200 stocks as we noted. The small company holdings will be hard to offload without driving market prices down dramatically. Hence the release from Admiralty today, whose shares were getting trounced."

Headlines like that are misleading SF.

ADY has cash coming in from the IO business (check the recent ann), & $13m of that "loss" was a non cash provision that is likely to be written back as the terms of the contract are completed.

Its only the introduction of IFRS that such provisions have to be brought to account.

The number of shares possibly involved are small in % terms to the number of shares on issue.

[tricha]

Micheal West has a bit to say about ADY.....

http://business.smh.com.au/opes-goes-subprime/20080328-223z.html

"Admiralty Resources may have admirable prospects as an exploration company but its balance sheet has $2.3 million of cash on $28 million of bank debts and its P&L shows income of $2.6 million on expenses of $39 million for a loss at the last report of $27 million. That is, it is high-risk. Yet this is the sort of thing which Opes, and Tricom for that matter, encouraged their clients to borrow against. LVRs of 75% against explorers."

"Like Tricom, ANZ and Merrill were the bankers and the securities were not all S&P/ASX 200 stocks as we noted. The small company holdings will be hard to offload without driving market prices down dramatically. Hence the release from Admiralty today, whose shares were getting trounced."

Thats the trouble Shasta, times have changed, if it was this time last year ADY would be worth $1.00 a share. Money was abundant.

Suggest u pay $30 and get, " Who moved my Cheese" by DR Spencer Johnson.
It's a wet weekend , I'm going to re-read it ;)

60% of your portfilo, hmm.

[shasta]

Thats the trouble Shasta, times have changed, if it was this time last year ADY would be worth $1.00 a share. Money was abundant.

Suggest u pay $30 and get, " Who moved my Cheese" by DR Spencer Johnson.
It's a wet weekend , I'm going to re-read it ;)

60% of your portfilo, hmm.

Add Uran with 20% & my portfolio is 80% extreme risk :eek:

If people look past the trees & see the forest, they will know RLL is soon to list & thats where the actions lies.

ADY isn't without problems, but all spec explorers - come producers go through tough times.

I dont get spooked easily & this issue will fade in a few days...

I might be able to pick up some more ADY sub 20c, if the nervous nellies panic sell :D

Might read the Aggressive Investor instead

[steve fleming]

Headlines like that are misleading SF.

ADY has cash coming in from the IO business (check the recent ann), & $13m of that "loss" was a non cash provision that is likely to be written back as the terms of the contract are completed.

Its only the introduction of IFRS that such provisions have to be brought to account.

The number of shares possibly involved are small in % terms to the number of shares on issue.

Shasta, I think the point M West was illustrating, was that ADY (like many others) was a high risk share to lend against.

ANZ Nominees have 23.17% of ADY....236m shares. (including 47m of PTs & 80m of the ex-director)....then theres the ML holding as well 5.89%.

Not all the 29% would be Opes clients....but a fair whack would be i'd imagine.

Could get messy.

(Current ADY holdings:
http://www.ady.com.au/uploads/top_20_shareholder/6ea9ab1baa0efb9e19094440c317e21b.pdf
)

[shasta]

Shasta, I think the point M West was illustrating, was that ADY (like many others) was a high risk share to lend against.

ANZ Nominees have 23.17% of ADY....236m shares. (including 47m of PTs & 80m of the ex-director)....then theres the ML holding as well 5.89%.

Not all the 29% would be Opes clients....but a fair whack would be i'd imagine.

Could get messy.

Not all the shares under ANZ Nominees are included in the Opes problems.

The total amount owing was $2.85m from the ann.

PT's shareholding is worth over $9m...(he said he'd write a chq & wouldnt sell)

I agree, the misinformed may panic sell & trigger a few stop losses, & i'll be buying some more cheap shares next week if it happens.

If the impatient want to sell, & lose there RLL allocations over some "cheap" & misleading headlines so be it.

[steve fleming]

PT's shareholding is worth over $9m...(he said he'd write a chq & wouldnt sell)



Yes thats what he said, unfortunately it looks like (accoeding to the M West story) he won't have any say in the matter...ie his shares (like all other Opes clients) are now controlled by ANZ who may sell them or do what ever they like with.

[shasta]

Yes thats what he said, unfortunately it looks like (accoeding to the M West story) he won't have any say in the matter...ie his shares (like all other Opes clients) are now controlled by ANZ who may sell them or do what ever they like with.

Im not sure if people fully understand margin lending :confused:

I use it with ASB Securities, however since the credit crunch i sold off or was stopped out of all margin lending stocks. (Like PSA, AMU)

The Nominee companies own the debt against the shares, NOT the shares themselves.

If PT has the money to pay the margin call (in effect), his shares CANNOT be sold without his permission.

If ANZ did, i'd imagine PT will be consulting his lawyer...

Think about it, ANZ cannot devalue the balance of his 47m holdings for a debt much less than, as they would be liable for any "losses" incurred.

I believe PT has adequately explained all this (although i dont agree with the platform he used).

[steve fleming]

Im not sure if people fully understand margin lending :confused:

I use it with ASB Securities, however since the credit crunch i sold off or was stopped out of all margin lending stocks. (Like PSA, AMU)

The Nominee companies own the debt against the shares, NOT the shares themselves.

If PT has the money to pay the margin call (in effect), his shares CANNOT be sold without his permission.

If ANZ did, i'd imagine PT will be consulting his lawyer...

Think about it, ANZ cannot devalue the balance of his 47m holdings for a debt much less than, as they would be liable for any "losses" incurred.

I believe PT has adequately explained all this (although i dont agree with the platform he used).

I'll give it one more go.... did you read:

http://business.smh.com.au/opes-goes-subprime/20080328-223z.html &

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...Q?OpenDocument (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Billion-dollar-bust-D64HQ?OpenDocument)
"To be clear: all of the shares that Opes Prime’s margin loan clients think they own, and owned before they dealt with Opes, are now owned by ANZ – no matter how small their loan is"

"When they struck their securities lending contracts with Opes, as was the case with Tricom, they signed away legal title to their shares.

Opes' bankers ANZ and Merrill Lynch own them now."

[shasta]

I'll give it one more go.... did you read:

http://business.smh.com.au/opes-goes-subprime/20080328-223z.html &

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...Q?OpenDocument (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Billion-dollar-bust-D64HQ?OpenDocument)
"To be clear: all of the shares that Opes Prime’s margin loan clients think they own, and owned before they dealt with Opes, are now owned by ANZ – no matter how small their loan is"

"When they struck their securities lending contracts with Opes, as was the case with Tricom, they signed away legal title to their shares.

Opes' bankers ANZ and Merrill Lynch own them now."

Lets get one simple fact straight shall we.

ANZ/Merrill Lynch DO NOT OWN PT's 47m shares in ADY.

They own the debt of $2.85m passed on from Opes, they hold his shares as security against the loan.

Just like a margin call, if you dont have the cash then & ONLY then can a lender sell your shares to cover the call. (And it's only enough to cover the loss).

I assure you they DO NOT have control over PT's 47m shares.

They have no legal right to sell them, without PT's permission.

A subtle but BIG difference.

If you want clarification (& not from some headline seeking internet paper), i suggest you ring/email Phillip Thomas direct.

Besides all this, it has NOTHING to do with ADY.

[The Big Ease]

importantly and most tragically as in the example given by kohler; some bloke had a 1m holding with a 250K margin loan. lost it all. the 750K of his own money is gone. he will have to go to the back of the line to see what is left of HIS MONEY!

this is tragic. really is. i cant believe the regulators let this through.
do we have regulators in this country, or just people who mop up afterwards?

[The Big Ease]

I assure you they DO NOT have control over PT's 47m shares.

They have no legal right to sell them, without PT's permission.

A subtle but BIG difference.

If you want clarification (& not from some headline seeking internet paper), i suggest you ring/email Phillip Thomas direct.

Besides all this, it has NOTHING to do with ADY.

i think you'll find that they are.
kohler and gottliebsen would have to be the two best financial journalists in aust. in this climate, im more inclined to believe them than a "desperate to save his ass ceo".

im being silly there, but i reckon you slight the author unfairly.

the point of these two articles is that these are not margin loans in the traditional sense as you have described.


Clients of Opes Prime are about to get taken to the cleaners.

When they struck their securities lending contracts with Opes, as was the case with Tricom, they signed away legal title to their shares.

[mark100]

Shasta you will find in the case of Opes, margin lending clients have signed over ownership of their shares to Opes. And now Opes is in administration, ANZ and Merril's being the secured lenders have taken possession of the shares. This is what happened with Tricom.

Even if you had no debt against your holding you still have lost possession of your shares! And writing a cheque to pay out a margin debt will do no good. ANZ and Merril will simply flog off the shares to cover their loans with no regard for the equity of Opes' clients.

Not all margin lenders work the same way. In the case of Commsec you still retain ownership of the shares provided they are CHESS sponsored with Commsec. I used to have a margin lending facility with Lift Capital and they held your shares in the name of Lift Capital Nominees. Earlier this year I held 2 stocks under this facility with no debt owing. When I saw Tricom's problems emerging I immediately moved my stock out of this facility because the simple fact was if Lift Capital got into trouble I would lose control of my stock even though I had no margin debt.

I don't follow the ADY story but had a look on this thread when I realised what was going on. This Phil guy is an amatuer by the looks of it! I would hardly put Aristocrat in the same category as MFS. And he thinks writing a cheque will fix his margin loan problems. He didn't read the fine print it seems. Shasta if you can't see this then I wouldn't trust your accounting/auditing skills.

[mark100]

The lesson from all of this is NEVER EVER sign title of your shares over to another party. If you intend to use a margin lending facility only use a margin lender that allows you to retain title of your stock. I recommend anyone who currently holds shares under an arrangement like Tricom and Opes to get out now. More players could fail in the months ahead.

I know Comsec and St George allow you to retain title and I'm assuming most of the other 'majors' allow this as well. But be careful of the fringe players. Most of the fringe players are not themselves an Authorsied Deposit Taking Institution. This means they have to fund the margin loans with wholesale lending from a bank. Which means clients have to sign their stock over as security and in the process become exposed to the credit risk of their broker.

[mark100]

Some extracts from The Australian today:

"What is sickening for the many investors who did business with both Opes Prime and Tricom, when they took out margin loans with them, they handed over legal title to the shares. That meant that when things went wrong, their main creditors, ANZ and Merrill Lynch, could seize their shares."

"But what makes Opes Prime and Tricom different to most other margin lenders is that they don't own shares on trust for the client. In most cases, margin lenders hold shares in a separate account in the client's name. In Opes Prime and Tricom's case, the shares get mixed in with Opes Prime's and Tricom's and everyone else's shares in providing securities to the banks that provide the margin loans to Opes Prime and Tricom. "

"Opes Prime is a living example of what happens when a company with this model goes belly up: clients become unsecured creditors and, as always, they remain behind the banks. Put simply, the client has taken on Opes Prime's credit risk."

[steve fleming]

I don't follow the ADY story but had a look on this thread when I realised what was going on. This Phil guy is an amatuer by the looks of it! I would hardly put Aristocrat in the same category as MFS. And he thinks writing a cheque will fix his margin loan problems. He didn't read the fine print it seems. Shasta if you can't see this then I wouldn't trust your accounting/auditing skills.

Geez...it was tough going last nite.


At best Phil is an amateur CEO, completely out of his depth; at worst he is a deceptive liar.

The question is, how are ANZ/ML going to go about off-loading their (potentially) 30% interest in ADY??

Thats some really massive overhang.

[The Big Ease]

i imagine quite a few beach houses will have pressed sellers this spring.

[steve fleming]

Geez...it was tough going last nite.


At best Phil is an amateur CEO, completely out of his depth; at worst he is a deceptive liar.

The question is, how are ANZ/ML going to go about off-loading their (potentially) 30% interest in ADY??

Thats some really massive overhang.

ANZ and Merrill appeared determined to retrieve some of their money, regardless of the potential cost to super investors and the market value of the companies whose shares are being dumped.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23448323-601,00.html

[tricha]

ANZ and Merrill appeared determined to retrieve some of their money, regardless of the potential cost to super investors and the market value of the companies whose shares are being dumped.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23448323-601,00.html

Thanks for that very important information Steve.

Well talk about greed and bad, very bad practices.

So where does this lead to for ADY, they might be dumping them, but buyers are also cuing up.

Be great to see the whole list of shares to be dumped onto the market, a few bargins to be plucked, but I think I will steer clear of ADY for a while.

[spruik]

Plenty of "buyers" (20c) late Friday, probably not on Monday after many holders will better understand the situation.

If PT loses his shares he may also lose his motivation. Might even walk away - in which case ADY may well fall over (due to his many disciples).

Shasta wrote earlier that he would be the first to get out if ADY was affected by the sub-prime. Well, it did get affected yet it looks like he will be the last one to get out (if at all).

PT's postings on TS may well be in breach of rules and someone is going to file a complaint sooner or later.

At best I now see ADY as a trading stock (but with great caution), certainly not an investment and certainly not in the same quantity as I held until last week.

The timing of the anns on the way up and subsequently, together with the recent event also confirm my suspicions I developed recently on PT.

[stevo1]

I expect that ADY will go into a trading halt.Certainly ANZ will have no mercy (saw this first hand in oz banks late 80s early 90s with property).However it could be somewhat of an own goal or series of own goals unless they handle this in an orderly fashion.Looking at the top 20 shareholder list(14/3/08) 1 ANZ nominees cash income a/c 23.17%, 2 Merril Lynch(Aus)nominees 5.89% what is unknown there is the actual cost (if any )in these accounts to both these parties or if they are purely nominee accts.Now if you add PTs 50mill and Hawkswoods 80 mill thats (which ANZ,M/L now "own") approx another 13%.Adds to a total of 42%.Under these circumstances ANZ and M/L would be foolish to try to dump shares but will possibly look to another solutions.(IMO)If you still own shares in ADY dont panic banks look to extract value and may have another plan.I no longer own any ADY shares sold remainung 5% tuesday

[The Big Ease]

btw, this thread has added 50 pages in 3 months.
astonishing when not much has actually happened.

[Tok3n]

Maybe the good news in all of this for ADY holders is, someone else will run the ship now?

[GarryB]

Interesting times.....

for a mining spec stock, won't there always be risk ? Aside from commodity pricing swings, I can think of :-
* sovereign risk, if offshore
* FX risks
* execution risk ( good idea, but ground to market can be a challenge)
* environmental risk ( natural disasters )
* competence risk ( mix of specialist knowledge, business acumen and drive on board)
* governance risk ( incompetent or fraudulent directors)

to which we can now add-

* global context ( subprime)
* manipulative larger players ( quite astounding, this Opes Prime / hedge fund shorting scene - pretty Wild West - and the possibly unpredicatable actions of ANZ))
and probably more I can't think of... ( suggestions ? )

Some of these are just the same as they were 6 months ago, others are "new "

What do PT's TS posting tell us about governance risk ?( whcih seesm to be aconcern with some recent posts) Probably not much , but I consider it would have been helful if he identified whether he was posting from a personal perspective, or a from a Board perspective. But I'll tolerate that greyness to affirm his apparent willingness to engage with shareholders beyond the context of AGM's or market anns. Some might view that as "unprofessional "- I find it encouraging but treat the words by context ( not a signed market ann, for example) Amateurish ? Maybe, but I don't have 9.6m to say I'm more professional or successful :)

Turmoil ... uncertainty ... risk.....

Maybe it's time to get greedy ?

[shasta]

Interesting times.....

for a mining spec stock, won't there always be risk ? Aside from commodity pricing swings, I can think of :-
* sovereign risk, if offshore
* FX risks
* execution risk ( good idea, but ground to market can be a challenge)
* environmental risk ( natural disasters )
* competence risk ( mix of specialist knowledge, business acumen and drive on board)
* governance risk ( incompetent or fraudulent directors)

to which we can now add-

* global context ( subprime)
* manipulative larger players ( quite astounding, this Opes Prime / hedge fund shorting scene - pretty Wild West - and the possibly unpredicatable actions of ANZ))
and probably more I can't think of... ( suggestions ? )

Some of these are just the same as they were 6 months ago, others are "new "

What do PT's TS posting tell us about governance risk ?( whcih seesm to be aconcern with some recent posts) Probably not much , but I consider it would have been helful if he identified whether he was posting from a personal perspective, or a from a Board perspective. But I'll tolerate that greyness to affirm his apparent willingness to engage with shareholders beyond the context of AGM's or market anns. Some might view that as "unprofessional "- I find it encouraging but treat the words by context ( not a signed market ann, for example) Amateurish ? Maybe, but I don't have 9.6m to say I'm more professional or successful :)

Turmoil ... uncertainty ... risk.....

Maybe it's time to get greedy ?

I want a black & white answer on this issue, not more speculation.

I will email Phillip Thomas, with all the issues that may affect ADY & my investment & i will post his reply unedited.

If i have this so wrong, as the above posts suggests, then as a ADY shareholder PT has some big problems, & shouldnt be in charge of RLL.

I thought the ASX/ASIC were meant to be the watchdogs for shareholders, & directors acting in there own interests, contrary to the companys shareholders are at best, unethical...

I'm not happy :mad:

[GarryB]

G''day Shasta

post not directed at you, nor am I suggesting you're wrong.

First half of post is more general market comment - applies to any spec miner.

Second half isn't so much raising the issue of PT's competence or honesty - rather, I'm saying his and the Board's performance are only one of MANY risks - it's just that while we may have a "perfect storm "of negativity around ADY, the lightning flashes are around PT's performance.

So, good on ya - email him , ask heaps of questions and it'll be interesting... but it won't change much of the other general risks. It may inform you as to how comfortable ( or reckless, or uninformed ) PT is around margin lending risk, but will it change any of the other factors ?

If on Mon ADY tanks, the question will be - time to get greedy and top up more ???


Discl:, hold a large % of portfolio as ADY, currently for a paper loss.

[soulman]

G''day Shasta

post not directed at you, nor am I suggesting you're wrong.

First half of post is more general market comment - applies to any spec miner.

Second half isn't so much raising the issue of PT's competence or honesty - rather, I'm saying his and the Board's performance are only one of MANY risks - it's just that while we may have a "perfect storm "of negativity around ADY, the lightning flashes are around PT's performance.

So, good on ya - email him , ask heaps of questions and it'll be interesting... but it won't change much of the other general risks. It may inform you as to how comfortable ( or reckless, or uninformed ) PT is around margin lending risk, but will it change any of the other factors ?

If on Mon ADY tanks, the question will be - time to get greedy and top up more ???


Discl:, hold a large % of portfolio as ADY, currently for a paper loss.

Wow, this thread has got bigger and bigger.

Good reading for personal education. Opes and Tricom, two small broker that collapsed. Is that stockbroker Marcus Padley from Tricom?

Shasta, a bit more research you need. ASB is a big ML lender, hence the stock are in your name. Same with Commsec, National, ANZ and others. Opes and Tricom, not so in the same league. Small and the founder only have eyes to expand and make more fortune for themselves (don't we all). We all have oppotunistic behaviour. If I have $100K, I want more. If I have $1 mil, I want more. If I have $100 mil, I want more. Wow...the greed factor. Usually leads to failure. People that don't have greed are the one that prosper in life. The thing about greed the last few years is that people see all this mining magnate get richer and richer and they want a slice for themselves as well, even though they are not in the mining industry. Kerry Harmanis, Ken Talbot, Andrew Forrest and many, many more.

Looks like ADY should be in trading halt Monday or they faced down to, maybe a floor price of 17 cents on Monday and lower price likely for the rest of the week. No upside to ADY ATM so buyers beware.

[steve fleming]

For further evidence of the almost insidious relationship between ADY and Opes Prime (in addition to the common director Blumberg), refer to the following links:

http://www.hawkswood.com.au/

http://www.leveragedcapital.com.au/

In the ASX release earlier this month, ADY advised that:

"July 2007 A$10m converting note loan exercised by Leveraged Capital at 20%
premium to market ($0.27 exercise price) on 11 March 2008
• 37,037,037 shares issued (3.6% of issued capital) on exercise
• A$10m loan facility with Hawkswood Investments Pty Ltd"

http://stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=ADY&E=ASX&N=197724

Now a receiver and an administrator were appointed to the Opes Prime Group, Opes Prime Stockbroking, Leveraged Capital and Hawkswood Investments, yet, PT in his TS comment said " ADY has no loans, or any other connection with OPES-Prime"

People can make up their own minds, but I agree with Major, PT is just a plain liar.

Credibility zero.

And no wonder he didn't make his TS statement to the ASX - he would be laughed out of town given the number of inaccuracies/lies in it.

[shasta]

For further evidence of the almost insidious relationship between ADY and Opes Prime (in addition to the common director Blumberg), refer to the following links:

http://www.hawkswood.com.au/

http://www.leveragedcapital.com.au/

In the ASX releae earlier this month ADY advised that:

"July 2007 A$10m converting note loan exercised by Leveraged Capital at 20%
premium to market ($0.27 exercise price) on 11 March 2008
• 37,037,037 shares issued (3.6% of issued capital) on exercise
• A$10m loan facility with Hawkswood Investments Pty Ltd"

http://stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=ADY&E=ASX&N=197724

Now a receiver and an administrator were appointed to the Opes Prime Group, Opes Prime Stockbroking, Leveraged Capital and Hawkswood Investments, yet, PT in his TS comment said " ADY has no loans, or any other connection with OPES-Prime"

People can make up their own minds, but I agree with Major, PT is just a plain liar.

Credibility zero.

You would think ADY was the only company caught up with OPES?

I noticed hardly any other companies have been mentioned in the press, or on any other ST threads, why?

I wonder why such a beat up on ADY, who here is looking for a cheaper entry :D

Just as well some of us have a timeframe greater than "a few days" :cool:

[steve fleming]

You would think ADY was the only company caught up with OPES?

I noticed hardly any other companies have been mentioned in the press, or on any other ST threads, why?

I wonder why such a beat up on ADY, who here is looking for a cheaper entry :D

Just as well some of us have a timeframe greater than "a few days" :cool:

Name one other company with such links to Opes as ADY?

What other company annouced to the ASX on Friday an association with Opes apart from ADY?

[dicey]

Blumberg was also a senior manager of Deloitte Consulting in 2000. Wonder what that connection is all about:confused::confused:

[Bobbyvee]

Come on shasta, try reading the Australian Financial review, it mentions many companies invoved with the Opes problem but not ADY!

[soulman]

For further evidence of the almost insidious relationship between ADY and Opes Prime (in addition to the common director Blumberg), refer to the following links:

http://www.hawkswood.com.au/

http://www.leveragedcapital.com.au/

In the ASX release earlier this month, ADY advised that:

"July 2007 A$10m converting note loan exercised by Leveraged Capital at 20%
premium to market ($0.27 exercise price) on 11 March 2008
• 37,037,037 shares issued (3.6% of issued capital) on exercise
• A$10m loan facility with Hawkswood Investments Pty Ltd"

http://stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=ADY&E=ASX&N=197724

Now a receiver and an administrator were appointed to the Opes Prime Group, Opes Prime Stockbroking, Leveraged Capital and Hawkswood Investments, yet, PT in his TS comment said " ADY has no loans, or any other connection with OPES-Prime"

People can make up their own minds, but I agree with Major, PT is just a plain liar.

Credibility zero.

And no wonder he didn't make his TS statement to the ASX - he would be laughed out of town given the number of inaccuracies/lies in it.

Nice dug out Steve. I like the thing he said about slice bread. Makes you wonder if he is going to get that served in jail. Not in the extreme but PT is safe from jail ATM. Every downfall in the market recently all got to do with related party transactions...MFS, CIY, AFG and this one. Actually ADY share price is doing quite well.

For me, glad I only traded ADY twice, the last one being last week, hence I don't have any more exposure. At this stage, I will not be buying....actually at all. Traders beware of buying into ADY because holding it overnight is risky business.

Major, did you got out of CIY/CPK before the inevitable?

[JackSprat]

My turn: Well, is the cup half full or half empty? Is PT a liar and a crook? Is ADY going down the gurgler? All will be revealed in the fullness of time but the evidence appears to be stacking up against PT. However, the point which no one seems to have considered, and the thing I would hinge my hopes on, is that whatever PT is, he has arrived at this point in his business life unscathed and I can't see him letting this blip on the ADY landscape sink us - not when there's 49 mill at stake (his personal tally) - or obliterate him and the company. He wouldn't be much of a business man if he did and I'm sure there's a few tricks up his sleeve yet.
I still hope the cups half full.

[The Big Ease]

with so many underpriced quality growth opportunities, why would you take on so much additional risk? isnt your money worth more caution than an all or nothing bet? dam, i work too hard for my money!

[steve fleming]

Oh no!

PTs been at it again....chatting away on TS again, digging a bigger and bigger hole for himself!!

He says, regarding his ADY shares "....I may have to sell some to recapitalise my position but I will be back in the market when I can. The current situation is I am an unsecured creditor but being a highly sophisticated investor I will be working hard to change my status...."

He at least now acknowledges that he is an unsecured creditor (a 180 degree turnaround from his earlier post), however because he reckons he is "a highly sophisticated investor" (!!!) he is above the law, and thinks that the Receivers will somehow treat him differently from Opes' 1199 other clients.

Seriously, someone needs to tell him to keep his mouth shut...he is looking more and more sad and desperate each time he comments.

However, I must say, this whole saga is in its own peverse way, strangely entertaining!

[winner69]

Oh no!

PTs been at it again....chatting away on TS again, digging a bigger and bigger hole for himself!!
....


However, I must say, this whole saga is in its own peverse way, strangely entertaining!

Agree with you there Steve - truely amazing ... esp the bit that he thinks he can change his status ... at least shasta will be happy with that comment

Must get back to topstocks to see if I have missed the latest instalment of this saga

Big question seems to be whether ADY is just PTs little baby or has some merit in its own right -- don't ask me because I haven't really followed or studied except for the enthusiasm previously showed on thsi thread

[steve fleming]

Agree with you there Steve - truely amazing ... esp the bit that he thinks he can change his status ... at least shasta will be happy with that comment

Must get back to topstocks to see if I have missed the latest instalment of this saga

Big question seems to be whether ADY is just PTs little baby or has some merit in its own right -- don't ask me because I haven't really followed or studied except for the enthusiasm previously showed on thsi thread

Yeah...I don't think i've ever seen a CEO of a public company behave in this fashion before....how the market can expect to take him seriously when he goes to try to raise the 100s of milions needed to fund ADYs development is beyond me.

ADY would appear to have a Lithium asset with some very promising upside, however as the likes of MFS, ABS and AFG have found out, having quality assets means little if the funding/liability side of your balance sheet is a mess.

As Major has pointed out, there are some substantial funding risks going forward. Now that ADYs major historical source of both debt and equity finance is in receivership, and given the way that PT has carried on, this risk has sky-rocketed.

[Scuffer]

How many off you lot followed Shasta an put money into this one, I did ages ago and I'm still in profit maybe not for much longer but some people here on this thread and I'm guessing, flew too close to the sun, this is only an assumption but isn't that the mother of all? People are fickle and always looking for a scapegoat if ADY was still running people on this thread would be hailing Shasta as a god, sometimes you just need to step back and look at yourself.

[soulman]

Jacksprat, I hope the glass is half full for Shasta and others who are guilty of little more than believing what was told to them by PT and ADY. Unfortunately, experience teaches others that honesty and full revelation of facts are scarce commodities in the market.

Big ease, that's the way I see it too, but the answer to the problem lies in greed which fosters a fear of missing out on big profits. Unfortunately Shasta and others have talked themselves into believing that the issue of RLL shares is all important and will ensure the whole situation is reversed or transformed on listing and that they will lose far too much profit initially if they are not holding ADY on the record day for RLL.

Hi Soulman,
Yes I sold all my CIY mainly around the mid $4's. CPK's are gone too. It hurt missing those divs though but that was a primary cause of their troubles in the first place.
I had numerous conversations with Phil and found him to be fairly genuine in what he was trying to do, but then CIY got greedy and didn't want to pass up the good deals that were coming their way. CPK had their plate full and couldn't handle more developments (or rather, borrowing) so CIY decided to wade in when they should not have.

The cost of holding those properties and huge dividends payouts in a shaky property market spelt trouble. Buying Terrain and Treasury and CPPM were the nails in the coffin that required large staff increases (besides the CPF franchises) and distraction for no profit.

Arhh, the good old days, 12 staff, no debt, very profitable, and a good div might still be working well today! But no, we all wanted growth and more profits! Boom!- and now dust!

Nice sell Major. A good sell is just as important as a good buy. I must admit I sold CTX straight away after their dissapointing result and the shares has dropped a few dollars since. I have learn to take regular losses now. Due to recent massive losses (notably AFG, MFS - where to from here? and CTX), you see that old cliche again that - don't let small losses turned into large losses. If one can make profits, one must be ready to take losses as well. It make perfect sense, although I loss that all important sense during the bull market. I was blind sided and the damage was extensive.

This deal with PT is a comedy. However, he being near retired age and broke, one must feel he has some sense of humour. What else can you do but laugh it off. I see Opes was lending 55% LVR on ADY. Wow....not only that, all the specs stock have LVR. You don't see that with all the major margin lenders. Criminal charges will be looked at for sure, although Opes has a great defence....they will say - look at the fine print.

A good article here by Malcolm West, also regarding ADY:

http://business.theage.com.au/now-for-the-opes-washup/20080328-223z.html

[Huang Chung]

How many off you lot followed Shasta an put money into this one, I did ages ago and I'm still in profit maybe not for much longer but some people here on this thread and I'm guessing, flew too close to the sun, this is only an assumption but isn't that the mother of all? People are fickle and always looking for a scapegoat if ADY was still running people on this thread would be hailing Shasta as a god, sometimes you just need to step back and look at yourself.

But for heavens sake, lets all agree that Shasta, nor anybody else, holds a gun to anybodies head and forces them to buy a stock....we're all adults here, and should be responsible for our own decisions.

[Scuffer]

Bang on pardon the pun!

[Oiler]

But for heavens sake, lets all agree that Shasta, nor anybody else, holds a gun to anybodies head and forces them to buy a stock....we're all adults here, and should be responsible for our own decisions.

Well said HC. Shasta may be a "GURU" but he is not infallible. Time will tell as this saga unfolds....

We are or should be adult enough to make our own financial decisions! I find it interesting that there are people on this board who are bagging on/blaming Shasta for there financial predicament and predicament ADYare in. :eek:

[steve fleming]

Credit where credit is due, and looking over the past posts on ADY, it appears Major has been spot on concerning ADY in just about every post he has made about ADY.

Take a look over Major's posts on ADY and you'll see how on the money he has been in his analysis...i guess though, as he wasn't posting 24/7 and taking PT's words as gospel, people were less inclined to listen.

Having said that, anyone relying on other people's posts for their investment decisions shouldn't be in the market IMO.

[steve fleming]

I find it interesting that there are people on this board who are bagging on/blaming Shasta for there financial predicament and predicament ADYare in. :eek:

????

Really?

Who?

[Oiler]

????

Really?

Who?

Steve.... I take your comments in the humor they were given :D

[Huang Chung]

I've just had a quick squiz at the ADY thread on TopStocks.

Man, it's really bizzar stuff!...... Didn't really appreciate the comedy of it until I had a look. :eek:

[steve fleming]

Steve.... I take your comments in the humor they were given :D

Actually I was being serious.

Shasta is good value, and i don't think anyone out there would be seriously blaming him....well i hope not.

[Tok3n]

16-17c open on Monday?

Lesson for PT:

Use cash to buy shares so you actually own them.

I'm a bit lost at these directors, they all should be reasonably wealthy why gear up to such an extend?...unless the prospects for their companies are so good that its a one way bet....?

[Dazza]

not to sure if this has been posted be4. i found this on HC, not to sure regarding authenticity though.

either way , at 20cents im broke even on this. if it hits the fans... i got ARU in TH so hopefully that will be good news for the week.

Dear Top stockers

I just want to make sure you all understand the facts.

ADY has no loans, or any other connection with OPES-Prime. Hawkswood a private investment firm loaned us $10m and to show their support bought 80 million shares and continue to provide fantastic support. Their funding is NOT Australian based.

Regarding my loan if and when I get contacted by Deloitte to repay the facility I will write a cheque. As I have declared on the ASX I hold 47 million ADY shares which makes this portfolio worth $9.4m alone. As declared I have no other debt.

Most other people with loans will go to ANZ margin lending who are offering a 40% gearing ratio in a diversified stock portfolio of at least 4 shares. Then there is the strategy of equity swaps etc etc so it is possible to finance as much as you need with more than one firm.

Opes Prime and Leveraged equity going into Administration is the best thing since sliced bread for us - a regrettable circumstance for them. It gets rid of - in one pass - all the margined daytraders who are selling into good annoucements, so in my experience (I went through this in 1987 as director of broking firm with a large margin lending business that survived and worked with other administrators on the disposal side of shares) my view is it will take Deloitte probably the best part of six months to work out who owes what and how to recover it and three years to complete the job. Its the basket cases they will address first like MFS, Aristocrat etc etc.

The best part is the Deloitte guys are experts at selling stock not like the amateur day traders and its in their best interests to maintain the price (to keep margin ratios in tact) so don't expect to see big dump lines as its not going to happen. Pls note TS's that posted this!!

ADY is going from strength to strength as reported in the announcements and while like all companies we have had our setbacks we have a great management team in place, good strong clients, operations improving all the time and a clear well defined action plan to achieve our goals which we continually reassess. Notwithstanding the free lunch you will get when the demerger goes through from the upward P/E adjustment!

regards

Phil Thomas
PS The ASX announcement has been incorrectly interpretted by a few who think ADY has a loan from Opes against my stock - its not it me.

[The Big Ease]

im not in either of ady or ura and i wouldnt be blaming shasta if i had a dabble in each.
but have a look at this thread! 117 pages of mostly nonsensical commentary on the daily gyrations of the market, sprinkled with a touch of analysis every 25 pages.

i mean; thats not really chocolate is it!?

then there are the prophecies about what will "definitely" happen to the share price this week, month, year etc

in ura there is the obligatory monthly affirmation that there will definitely be an announcement to propel the stock to a thousand bucks. why else would kate hobbs be in country x, y, z etc?!?!

or

see their website? theyve changed the font AND the colour. the ancient druze, would use this as a signal on their scrolls to let neighbouring villagers know that there was movement at the station. in modern times it means there will definitely be a market sensitive announcement. FFS!

heaven forbid you should sell, in fear of incurring shasta's wrath; demanding an explanation, afterall, he was still in the stock so how dare you sell or called a fool/nervous nelly etc etc

i feel somewhat guilty for having a crack at shasta because i reckon he doesnt mean any harm, in fact means well and probably wants others to share in what he deems good buys. but a little less "believeing" and a little more analysis, "this is my opinion for what its worth" kinda posting.

please stop the prosyltizing.
it does everybody a disservice.

[steve fleming]

im not in either of ady or ura and i wouldnt be blaming shasta if i had a dabble in each.
but have a look at this thread! 117 pages of mostly nonsensical commentary on the daily gyrations of the market, sprinkled with a touch of analysis every 25 pages.

i mean; thats not really chocolate is it!?

then there are the prophecies about what will "definitely" happen to the share price this week, month, year etc

in ura there is the obligatory monthly affirmation that there will definitely be an announcement to propel the stock to a thousand bucks. why else would kate hobbs be in country x, y, z etc?!?!

or

see their website? theyve changed the font AND the colour. the ancient druze, would use this as a signal on their scrolls to let neighbouring villagers know that there was movement at the station. in modern times it means there will definitely be a market sensitive announcement. FFS!

heaven forbid you should sell, in fear of incurring shasta's wrath; demanding an explanation, afterall, he was still in the stock so how dare you sell or called a fool/nervous nelly etc etc

i feel somewhat guilty for having a crack at shasta because i reckon he doesnt mean any harm, in fact means well and probably wants others to share in what he deems good buys. but a little less "believeing" and a little more analysis, "this is my opinion for what its worth" kinda posting.

please stop the prosyltizing.
it does everybody a disservice.

Big Ease,
While i think Shasta has got this one wrong, at least he is contributing to the ST site and this thread with his thoughts, (notwithstanding they maybe a bit misguided), unlike all the lurkers/visitors who add no value at all.
There is always the ignore function.

Disc: Never held ADY but finding the whole saga quite entertaining!

[spruik]

Big Ease,
While i think Shasta has got this one wrong, at least he is contributing to the ST site and this thread with his thoughts, (notwithstanding they maybe a bit misguided), unlike all the lurkers/visitors who add no value at all.
There is always the ignore function.

Disc: Never held ADY but finding the whole saga quite entertaining!

Lurkers and visitors should not be put down... please! What on earth is wrong with reading about stocks and opinions (without posting)!!!

[steve fleming]

Lurkers and visitors should not be put down... please! What on earth is wrong with reading about stocks and opinions (without posting)!!!

I'm not putting them down/saying its wrong...i'm just saying they don't add any value...ie they don't contribute to the debate/discussion/analysis.

It's not going to be much of a "chat site" if nobody chats!!

Kind of like the annoying person at a dinner party, who just sits there all night and says nothing.

[spruik]

I'm not putting them down/saying its wrong...i'm just saying they don't add any value...ie they don't contribute to the debate/discussion/analysis.

It's not going to be much of a "chat site" if nobody chats!!

Kind of like the annoying person at a dinner party, who just sits there all night and says nothing.

How can a silent visitor/lurker be ennoying? You can't see him/her.

[steve fleming]

How can a silent visitor/lurker be ennoying? You can't see him/her.

At a dinner party you can see him/her.

[The Big Ease]

Big Ease,
While i think Shasta has got this one wrong, at least he is contributing to the ST site and this thread with his thoughts, (notwithstanding they maybe a bit misguided), unlike all the lurkers/visitors who add no value at all.
There is always the ignore function.

Disc: Never held ADY but finding the whole saga quite entertaining!

with respect, i think there is a difference between sharing an opinion and prosyltizing.

i do agree on your point about encouraging others to put forward considered analysis.

[Tok3n]

not to sure if this has been posted be4. i found this on HC, not to sure regarding authenticity though.

either way , at 20cents im broke even on this. if it hits the fans... i got ARU in TH so hopefully that will be good news for the week.

Dear Top stockers

..

Opes Prime and Leveraged equity going into Administration is the best thing since sliced bread for us - a regrettable circumstance for them. It gets rid of - in one pass - all the margined daytraders who are selling into good annoucements..

regards

Phil Thomas
PS The ASX announcement has been incorrectly interpretted by a few who think ADY has a loan from Opes against my stock - its not it me.

I think its a fake

Why would he use Opes Prime, then criticize them afterwards?!

[boxing_beaver]

that's just bizarre - why would someone write fake MD letters and post them on a stock forum?

[STRAT]

that's just bizarre - why would someone write fake MD letters and post them on a stock forum?Almost as bizzare as this thread :D

It wouldnt be the first time that kind of stuff has been posted on HC.

It takes time ( years even ) to figure out who is genuine and who is sharp on these sites and even then one can never be sure.

As to figuring out who is genuine on HC. Good luck to anyone trying to do so.

If that really is PT posting on TS I would have to agree with others here. Hes not doing himself or ADY any good.

[stevo1]

No trading halt.Considering the number of times anns have been made over virtually nothing when at this critical stage it is needed ---nothing!!!----Feel for you ppl still holding.What a circus

[ScrappyO]

ignore............................................ ..

[Greenfield]

Been watching ADY this morning and there is definetly alot of support there. Someone waits till the buy side builds up the flicks off 2mill shares at a time. Must be the PT guy trying to raise funds to repay his margin loan?

Im guessing hes got about 15m to sell, to cover the $2.8m, so far about 8 gone i think. Support is good so watching it closely.

Never held ady before and dont follow it, these are only my thoughts after 1hr of checking it out. So feel free to correct me if im wrong

[STRAT]

. Must be the PT guy trying to raise funds to repay his margin loan?

I would expect ANZ to be selling today.

[spruik]

Been watching ADY this morning and there is definetly alot of support there. Someone waits till the buy side builds up the flicks off 2mill shares at a time. Must be the PT guy trying to raise funds to repay his margin loan?

Im guessing hes got about 15m to sell, to cover the $2.8m, so far about 8 gone i think. Support is good so watching it closely.

Never held ady before and dont follow it, these are only my thoughts after 1hr of checking it out. So feel free to correct me if im wrong

There are (and have been) a number of large parcels on the buy side just below current trading prices. You'd wonder if they are related to ANZ to create an impression of strength - enabling them to sell more at better prices.

[winner69]

Been watching ADY this morning and there is definetly alot of support there. Someone waits till the buy side builds up the flicks off 2mill shares at a time. Must be the PT guy trying to raise funds to repay his margin loan?

Im guessing hes got about 15m to sell, to cover the $2.8m, so far about 8 gone i think. Support is good so watching it closely.

Never held ady before and dont follow it, these are only my thoughts after 1hr of checking it out. So feel free to correct me if im wrong

Problem is PT doesn't appear to control the shares at OP anymore .... and the problem is bigger than his $2.8M margin account

[Bobbyvee]

There are (and have been) a number of large parcels on the buy side just below current trading prices. You'd wonder if they are related to ANZ to create an impression of strength - enabling them to sell more at better prices.

Sure looks like it - hard to believe there are that many genuine large buyers given the situation. This sort of manipulation (up and down )of the ADY SP has been a characteristic for some time.

[OutToLunch]

I got a pm asking after my thoughts on ADY, so in case anyone else is wondering too (as I have been a big fan of ADY), here goes:

>>G'day,

A coincidence that you wrote to me just now as I have just returned from holiday, assessed where we're at, and have decided to sell down to reduce what had become an unacceptable level of risk for me. This too was meant to be a long-termer for me -- I had believed in it so much that ADY made up nearly 100% of my 'portfolio' (I held 1.1 million shares). But the way things have gone recently made me feel just way too vulnerable, given the shenanigans going on at the moment -- basically, I have lost trust in management.

I sold 800k shares at 18.5 this morning, which essentially recovers my starting capital minus about $5k or so. The rest (300k) I still hold, but they're on notice that they had better behave themselves or else they're out the door too!

This is a real bummer as things were (apparently) going so well, and I was sitting on what was (for me) a huge profit. However I'm not willing to gamble so much of my savings on what has become a very high risk proposition, and I am more concerned about keeping my shirt on these days.

Hope that helps -- I'm sure it's not what you want to hear though. :(

[spruik]

Sure looks like it - hard to believe there are that many genuine large buyers given the situation. This sort of manipulation (up and down )of the ADY SP has been a characteristic for some time.

Buy/sell ratio is now roughly 2 to 1 (as at 1:00pm), not normal at all considering the bad news. Suspecting dummy bids. Still, it's crawling back towards 0.20.

[spruik]

Buy/sell ratio is now roughly 2 to 1 (as at 1:00pm), not normal at all considering the bad news. Suspecting dummy bids. Still, it's crawling back towards 0.20.

Let's make that 5:1. Just placed an order for 40,000,000 at .001 cents. I am now guilty of market deception/manipulation on a grand scale! (not holding any atm).

[Damo79]

Just to keep people informed, since I post the odd message on ADY. Just sold at 19 cents. My take at the moment: I want in on RLL, but not as much as I want out of ADY-IO.

If they ever get the demerger through (starting to think administrators is more likely), I'll be onto RLL like a fat kid on a cupcake ;)

Cheers
Damo

[suntboy]

Man I bought mine for 3 cents ages ago ... so I suppose I just still sit hear and ignore all that is going on and hang out for that day they start producing Lithium.....
When I bought there was no iron or splits etc so the Co in my opinion is still heading towards what I invested in

[h2so4]

Let's make that 5:1. Just placed an order for 40,000,000 at .001 cents. I am now guilty of market deception/manipulation on a grand scale! (not holding any atm).

Order not accepted:)

[spruik]

Order not accepted:)

Yes it was, pulled it again. Don't want it to rise too much too soon... :)

[seaosh]

I am out today too. . .

With it breaking 20 cents and all the shenanigans I'm no longer interested. The lithium is great, but not the other stuff associated with it.

Took a big loss on this last trade in ADY (holding some all the way down since around 50 cents - ouch!). But I'm still ahead on the stock overall so can't complain.

[OutToLunch]

I changed my mind and sold my remaining 300k at 19 cents late this afternoon so I am completely out now, sadly. It's a real disappointment after I had such high hopes for ADY (and was sitting on such a nice paper profit along the way), but with so many uncertainties in the way between where we are now and where we could be potentially has been doing my head in and I could no longer tolerate the risks associated with holding so many ADY shares and so little of anything else. I'm out with an average profit of 34%, so that's some reassurance.

I will keep watching closely because I still like the Li/KCl story very much and think it has huge potential, but the hurdles ADY needs to overcome in the meantime (financing requirements, share trading issues a la Opes Prime, Fe side production/shipping constraints, various other inconsistencies and apparent credibility issues) appear to have become Israeli-style concrete walls with a teflon coating -- until these have been resolved I will just watch from the safety of a KiwiBank account. The Fe side in particular has become a real millstone for ADY, and perhaps the demerger will be the best thing out for holders -- cast ADY free and hang onto the RLL shares. I dunno... it's all too murky right now for one to be truly objective about where it's all going. This bod needs more certainty and clarity before he'll be having another fling with the devil.

The clincher for me was asking myself the question: "Would I be prepared to buy now the quantity that I currently hold, if I didn't hold any already?" The answer was no (too many uncertainties) -- so I'm out.

Good luck to those still holding.... :o

[spruik]

Might that mean only shasta is still in? :confused:

We should be reminded that we should only hold shares if there is a compelling reason for doing so.

[shasta]

Might that mean only shasta is still in? :confused:

We should be reminded that we should only hold shares if there is a compelling reason for doing so.

Yup still holding Spruik, despite the 57m shares traded, ADY ended down 1.5c to 19c.

Hardly the "Monday Meltdown" some were expecting...

Holding on for the RLL allocation.

[GarryB]

So Shasta, PT come up with answers to your satisfaction ??

and I agree, not the black hole some were thinking ( still, there's always tomorrow :) )

Discl : still hold.

[shasta]

So Shasta, PT come up with answers to your satisfaction ??

and I agree, not the black hole some were thinking ( still, there's always tomorrow :) )

Discl : still hold.

After the bath i've had on this thread, i'm loathed to "share" my thoughts.

[spruik]

I want a black & white answer on this issue, not more speculation.

I will email Phillip Thomas, with all the issues that may affect ADY & my investment & i will post his reply unedited.


After the bath i've had on this thread, i'm loathed to "share" my thoughts.

But... shasta you PROMISED...!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[pago]

I changed my mind and sold my remaining 300k at 19 cents late this afternoon so I am completely out now, sadly. It's a real disappointment after I had such high hopes for ADY (and was sitting on such a nice paper profit along the way), but with so many uncertainties in the way between where we are now and where we could be potentially has been doing my head in and I could no longer tolerate the risks associated with holding so many ADY shares and so little of anything else. I'm out with an average profit of 34%, so that's some reassurance.

I will keep watching closely because I still like the Li/KCl story very much and think it has huge potential, but the hurdles ADY needs to overcome in the meantime (financing requirements, share trading issues a la Opes Prime, Fe side production/shipping constraints, various other inconsistencies and apparent credibility issues) appear to have become Israeli-style concrete walls with a teflon coating -- until these have been resolved I will just watch from the safety of a KiwiBank account. The Fe side in particular has become a real millstone for ADY, and perhaps the demerger will be the best thing out for holders -- cast ADY free and hang onto the RLL shares. I dunno... it's all too murky right now for one to be truly objective about where it's all going. This bod needs more certainty and clarity before he'll be having another fling with the devil.

The clincher for me was asking myself the question: "Would I be prepared to buy now the quantity that I currently hold, if I didn't hold any already?" The answer was no (too many uncertainties) -- so I'm out.

Good luck to those still holding.... :o

hi i have also altered my risk perspective on ady.on a risk /reward basis,short term the risk outweighs the reward.however given the high volume turnover today,ady i thought should have ended about 15c.not so ,there is buying support.i would not be surprised to see a takeover offer for the lithium.this is wishfull thinking but a company with cash and good management is what is needed.my comment is speculative,understand it as that,cheers pago.

[suntboy]

I still cant get my head around u guys ? ....
Just wondering why you bought in the first place .. Li or Fe or both?
If like myself u have been into ADY (and its been about 6 years ) it has always been about Rincon , now in between times times there has been developments and lots of asides as i am sure there are with other small cap co,s but the main reason I continue to hold is for the reasons bandied about over the last few years regarding Hybrid cars etc.
This guy Thomas seems to be your normal blow it out your A*** D***Head but hopefully he will get just that and the Co will get on with it
Simple

Welcome to Suntland

[spruik]

hi i have also altered my risk perspective on ady.on a risk /reward basis,short term the risk outweighs the reward.however given the high volume turnover today,ady i thought should have ended about 15c.not so ,there is buying support.i would not be surprised to see a takeover offer for the lithium.this is wishfull thinking but a company with cash and good management is what is needed.my comment is speculative,understand it as that,cheers pago.

Or... if ADY is unsuccessful in raising finance, it might have to sell assets, such as the Li. In which case the shareholders get nothing.

[tricha]

After the bath i've had on this thread, i'm loathed to "share" my thoughts.

Hmm, dam shame Shasta, billions of dollars worth of lithium, etc. I was going to retire on Lithium as well.:(


"i i have also altered my risk perspective on ady.on a risk /reward basis,short term the risk outweighs the reward.however given the high volume turnover today,ady i thought should have ended about 15c.not so ,there is buying support.i would not be surprised to see a takeover offer for the lithium.this is wishfull thinking but a company with cash and good management is what is needed.my comment is speculative,understand it as that,cheers pago. "

Pago is 100% right on what he stated above, sums it up in a nutshell.
ADY is in need of a Bright Knight.

[pago]

Or... if ADY is unsuccessful in raising finance, it might have to sell assets, such as the Li. In which case the shareholders get nothing.

spruik,if ady have to sell li,there will be a price and shareholders wont get nothing ,please get rationale,cheers pago

[JackSprat]

Isn't it a bummer not knowing the future. The old saying that when the boot boy down the street starts buying shares it's time to pull out. I pulled out just before all the hooharr, immediately after the summary from the bank said there were no guarantees and that ADY might go broke.
Then I bought back at .21 Now one and all are lowering the life boats and pulling away but I'm not going to because my old saying is when the old hands and the knowledgeable and the "wise" say logically and rationally it's time to get out, stay put.
Sounds dumb but after reading all the data and a lot of the posts here and in hc and top stock there's something in the back of my mind that says hang on.

After all this is the agenda: Extracting lithium chloride and potash from a salt brine lake in Argentina. Operating 10 iron ore mines in Chile. Exploring for Nickel in Western Australia (Pyke Hill tenement) and lead and Zinc in the Northern Territory (Bulman Tenement).

[steve fleming]

ML was doing most of the major selling yesterday (sold $5.97m dollars of ADY shares yesterday)

Looks like ANZ (who use GSJBW) have not done any major selling of ADY yet.

Commsec (ie retail ) are doing most of the buying.

[STRAT]

ML was doing most of the major selling yesterday (sold $5.97m dollars of ADY shares yesterday)

Looks like ANZ (who use GSJBW) have not done any major selling of ADY yet.

Commsec (ie retail ) are doing most of the buying.Hi Steve,
That indicates reasonable support from the retail sector wouldnt you think?
We know why ML are selling down and it has little to do with ADY. If and when ANZ do the same it will also have little to do with ADY also.

I could be very wrong here but I think all those who jumped overboard in the last few days may have over estimated the size of the hole in the boat.

[JackSprat]

There are a number of other company's apart from ADY who have been affected by Opres Prime (or whoever they were) lol and those companies have had trading halts. If ADY was in the same amount of trouble they would have had a halt also.

Interesting read (unless it's already been posted here) http://www.ady.com.au/uploads/news/6974ce5ac660610b44d9b9fed0ff9548.pdf

[steve fleming]

Hi Steve,
That indicates reasonable support from the retail sector wouldnt you think?
We know why ML are selling down and it has little to do with ADY. If and when ANZ do the same it will also have little to do with ADY also.

I could be very wrong here but I think all those who jumped overboard in the last few days may have over estimated the size of the hole in the boat.

Hi Strat,


I don’t know if retail support is a good thing or a bad thing?

If your average retail investor is typical of your average hot copper member, then I’d say it’s a very bad thing!!

Anyway, it has been pretty impressive…you’d think though, that sooner or later it has to give?

ADY’s problem is, now with such serious overhang of the ANZ stock, any equity capital raising is out of the question. Which pretty much leaves debt financing.

[steve fleming]

ML was doing most of the major selling yesterday (sold $5.97m dollars of ADY shares yesterday)

Looks like ANZ (who use GSJBW) have not done any major selling of ADY yet.

Commsec (ie retail ) are doing most of the buying.

I think ML is now finished selling...or pretty close to it.

Per the ASX announcemnt just released they had 53m ADY shares on 28/3/08.

They sold approximately 30m yesterday, and a further approximately 15m today....so ML are pretty much done.

However, it appears ANZ has now started to sell too - GSJBW sold 10 million today, which may be the start of the realisation of the ANZ holdings (however can't be sure as GSJBW could be selling on behalf of anyone).

[steve fleming]

I think ML is now finished selling...or pretty close to it.

Per the ASX announcemnt just released they had 53m ADY shares on 28/3/08.

They sold approximately 30m yesterday, and a further approximately 15m today....so ML are pretty much done.

However, it appears ANZ has now started to sell too - GSJBW sold 10 million today, which may be the start of the realisation of the ANZ holdings (however can't be sure as GSJBW could be selling on behalf of anyone).

Looks like i am correct

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Opes-Prime-clients-seek-injunction-DA9CU?OpenDocument


ANZ has liquidated 27 per cent of the $616 million worth of shares it took possession of upon Opes Prime’s collapse.
Merrill Lynch has already liquidated all of the shares it took possession of.

[GarryB]

So the "Becoming a substantial holder "notice from ML listed against ADY is historic, and will be , if you're correct, replaced by a "ceasing to be a holder "notice ? ( edit - in a few days )

( I guess ML are moving quickly to sll on the basis that they can't surrender what they don't have ?)

[Halebop]

( I guess ML are moving quickly to sll on the basis that they can't surrender what they don't have ?)

Personally I think they are selling quickly because they have their own problems.

The legality and reasonableness arguments make for an interesting read though, and certainly it makes an injunction a bit of a moot point if the securities are sold.

How long before the lawyers start posturing for a class action?

[spruik]

So the "Becoming a substantial holder "notice from ML listed against ADY is historic, and will be , if you're correct, replaced by a "ceasing to be a holder "notice ? ( edit - in a few days )

( I guess ML are moving quickly to sll on the basis that they can't surrender what they don't have ?)

Seems to me this is irrefutable proof that ADY has been shorted big time (there is only one reason to lend/borrow stock). Now if ADY is such a fantastic stock, who would dare short so many?

I suspect those who know more than us. I suspect we've been milked by the very person(s) we trusted.

[steve fleming]

So the "Becoming a substantial holder "notice from ML listed against ADY is historic, and will be , if you're correct, replaced by a "ceasing to be a holder "notice ? ( edit - in a few days )

( I guess ML are moving quickly to sll on the basis that they can't surrender what they don't have ?)

Yep - ML are gone.

However, remember that there is absolutely no doubt as to ANZ's entitlement to the 80million ADY shares held by Hawkswood Investments and the 37million ADY shares held by Leveraged Capital.

ANZ has appointed recievers to both these companies, so would control these ADY shareholdings anyway in the event that they did not have the right to sell them.

[JackSprat]

ANZ Bank has sold 27 per cent of the $616 million worth of shares it took possession of as creditor of collapsed stockbroker Opes Prime.

HERE'S THE SHOPPING LIST

The following is a shopping list of almost 700 stocks held by distressed finance house Opes Prime. The ANZ bank has instructed its adviser Goldman Sachs JBWere to sell the stocks. The list includes some of the big names on the ASX such as Toll Holdings and QBE but most of the companies listed inhabit the small end of the market.

AAE, AAH, AAQ, AAR, AAS, AAU, ABJ, ABQ, ABQO, ACB, ACG, ACK, ACR, ADA, ADEO, ADN, ADX, ADY, AEX, AFA, AFGHA, AFT, AGI, AGO, AGX, AGXO, AIE, AIM, AJL, ALB, ALE, ALK, ALL, ALT, ALU, ALY, AMA, AMB, AMM, AMMO, AMU, AND, ANH, ANQ, ANZIMJ, AOEGA, AOK, AOS, AOSOA, API, APM, APP, AQD, AQDOA, AQE, AQR, ARH, ARM, ARO, AROOB, ARR, ARV, ARXO, ASB, ASC, ASX, ATG, ATP, AUJ, AUN, AUT, AVA, AVB, AVX, AWG, AXA, AXC, AXCO, AXM, AXT, AZA, AZM,

BAR, BBP, BBW, BCF, BCI, BCL, BDG, BDL, BDR, BEC, BEI, BFG, BIT, BKG, BKGO, BKM, BKY, BLG, BLK, BLKO, BLP, BLU, BML, BMM, BMU, BNBIME, BNL, BNO, BOE, BOEO, BOW, BOWD, BPG, BPO, BPOOB, BRM, BRO, BRT, BSN, BSR, BTA, BTV, BUG, BUR, BXP, BYI, BYL, BYR, BYRO, BZI, CAP, CAV, CAVO, CAZ, CBAPB, CCI, CCO, CCP, CCU, CDR, CDT, CDU, CDUO, CEO, CGF, CGG, CGGCA, CGT, CHM, CHN, CII, CIN, CIX, CLD, CMO, CMOOA, CNB, CNBR, CNF, CNN, CQE, COI, COS, COY, COZO, CPK, CPR, CQT, CQU, CRC, CSE, CSV, CTI, CTO, CTPOA, CTS, CTSO, CUL, CUR, CUS, CUV, CUX, CUY, CVGO, CVR, CWT, CXC, CXD, CXG, CXY, CXYO, CYL, CYT, CZA, DES, DGR, DIA, DIAO, DID, DLS, DMA, DMX, DRA, DRK, DSN, DVM, DVN, DXL, DYE, DYEO.

EBB, EBI, EBR, EBT, ECM, ECMCA, ECU, EDE, EDM, EDS, EKA, EKM, ELK, ELL, ELLO, ELY, EME, EMS, EMU, EOS, EPD, EQI, EQX, EQXO, ERG, ERH, ERHO, ERJ, ERN, ERNO, ESG, ESI, ESMCA, ESS, ETC, EUG, EWC, EXM, EXMOA, EZL.

FAS, FASO, FCN, FEA, FGE, FML, FND, FRE, FRI, FRS, FSA, FTD, FUL, FUN, FUT.

GBE, GBG, GCN, GDAOB, GDAOC, GDN, GDR, GFE, GGG, GGGO, GGY, GIR, GFL, GME, GMR, GMX, GNI, GNIO, GNL, GNLOB, GOP, GPNOA, GPR, GRKOA, GRP, GRY, GSF, GUN, GWR, GYN, HAO, HDG, HFC, HGO, HIG, HII, HLG, HSK, HTA, HTW, HTX, HXL, HYO.

IAGPA, IAU, IAW, IBG, ICV, IFE, IGC, IGG, IGR, III, IIN, IMA, IMD, IMI, IMU, INES, INL, INT, IPA, IPN, IPX, IRL, IRLO, IRN, ISS, ITC, ITS, IVK.

JAK, JAL, JAT, JET, JMB, JVG, JVGO.

KAL, KAM, KAR, KGL, KIK, KIKO, KMN, KOV, KSXOA, KTE, KTL.

LAT, LEF, LEFO, LEG, LEGO, LFE, LMG, LOM, LRL, LVL.

MAB, MAE, MAKO, MAL, MAR, MAU, MBI, MBP, MDG, MDL, MEE, MEI, MEO, MEP, MES, MFC, MFI, MFS, MFSG, MFT, MGU, MHL, MIN, MKY, MLI, MLM, MLS, MLSOA, MLX, MMB, MMN, MMNO, MMS, MMX, MMZ, MNC, MNCO, MNM, MNMO, MNY, MOL, MPD, MPJ, MPJO, MPY, MRB, MRBO, MRO, MRYO, MSAS, MSB, MSTG, MSTO, MTB, MTY, MUE, MUR, MVP, MVU, MWE, MWN, MXL, MXX.

NAL, NBL, NDO, NEC, NEO, NPL, NGE, NGM, NIP, NKP, NLG, NMS, NOD, NQM, NRT, NRU, NRUO, NSP, NST, NSX, NVT, NWK, NWS, NWSLV, NXS.

ODN, ODNO, ODY, OEC, OEL, OGC, OGCO, OMH, OMI, ONC, ONQ, ORD, ORE, ORI, OZG.

PAB, PBP, PCL, PDR, PDZ, PEA, PEN, PES, PESO, PFG, PGL, PGM, PGS, PHL, PIE, PIO, PLV, PMH, PNN, PNW, POS, PPP, PPS, PRE, PRO, PRR, PRU, PRW, PRWO, PSD, PST, PTN, PTO, PVE, PWR, PXL, PXS, PXUPA, PYC, PYM, PYMO.

QBE, QBEIMC, QMG, QOL, QOLOA, QSS, QSSO, QTK, QKQ.

RAUO, RBM, RBX, RBY, RBYO, RCO, RDR, RED, REO, REOOA, REX, REY, REYOA, RFE, RFEO, RFG, RFL, RMA, RMLOA, RNG, RNGO, ROY, ROYOA, RRL, RRS, RRSDA, RRTO, RSN, RSNCH, RSNGB, RUM, RVM, RWD.

SAE, SAR, SBL, SBR, SBS, SBSO, SDM, SEA, SEN, SEY, SFR, SGBPC, SGH, SHE, SHEO, SHX, SLA, SLACF, SML, SMLOC, SMZ, SNV, SPH, SPI, SPL, SRAO, SRK, SRKO, SRR, SRV, SRZ, SSI, STX, SWG, SWK, SXE, SYB, SYN, SYP, SYPO, SYR.

TAN, TAS, TAW, TAWO, TAWR, TBR, TDO, TEY, TEYO, TGS, TGX, THS, THRO, THX, TLM, TMX, TMXO, TNC, TNCOA, TNG, TOL, TOX, TRF, TRH, TRHO, TSH, TTR, TZL.

UBI, UEQ, UKL, ULT, UMC, UMS, UNI, UNIO, UNX, UOS.

VCN, VHL, VIL, VILO, VIP, VLA, VML, VMLO, VMS, VMT, VRE.

WBA, WCN, WCP, WCU, WDC, WDR, WEB, WEC, WEZ, WEZO, WHC, WIG, WLF, WME, WMT, WPG, WRK, WRR, WVL, WWH, WWI, WWM, WWW.

XCD, XRF, XST, XTE.

YRR, YRRO, YTC.

ZAUWBA, ZGL, ZMG, ZNC.

heraldsun.com.au

*********The point is ADY is not just an isolated case here***********

[JackSprat]

The other stock I hold BOW, is on this list as well. I would imagine a number of other ST members will have a lot of their shares involved with these companies. In other words, who is immune. Shight! I should have left my cash in Bonus Bonds, lol. :confused:

[The Big Ease]

other than arasor (arr), im in the clear.
phewww!
looking up some of those codes is sure to bring a chuckle or two.

[Snapper]

My little darling, LYC, isn't there, thank God!

[STRAT]

Thanks for that Jack. All bar 2 of mine are off the list as well.