PDA

View Full Version : Rubicon



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

donner
11-05-2005, 01:12 PM
Does anyone rate this at the moment?

Its fallen about 15-20% from levels that it had held for a long time. They have bought in to TEN and will have to announce their new value for Arborgen when the day comes to report.

I see the NY fund Third Avenue has increased their stake also recently.

I'm picking, post-June 30th this will be re-rated about 30% from these levels.

Snow Leopard
11-05-2005, 01:13 PM
up or down?
And more specifically why?

Westie
11-05-2005, 02:40 PM
Third ave's stated investment strategy is to invest in co's that are trading at discounts of at least 30% from "readily ascertainable asset values". They are expecting tenon to sell its Nth American distribution business.

TerryA
11-05-2005, 03:21 PM
Westie,

>>They are expecting tenon to sell its Nth American distribution business. <<

Didn't Tenon recently buy parts more North American mouldings and distribution business ?

Westie
12-05-2005, 09:03 AM
Yes & yes. Read the last quarter report for the international fund on third ave's website. They are picking more assets will be divested.

Tenon has also recently invested more money in its Nth American distribution business.

I haven't yet had the time, but i'd like to research what the carrying value vs the market value of the distribution businesses are. I'm not certain, but I believe Tenon bought private businesses and often these sell at lower multiples than what the market is willing to pay for a similar listed business

Lizard
12-05-2005, 11:31 AM
But if they like Tenon, why not buy TEN shares, seeing as you get a much larger share in TEN $ for $ than you do buying RBC?

Westie
13-05-2005, 08:03 AM
Read the third ave reports, they believed when buying at around 97c p/s that RBC was selling at a substantial discount to asset value & their largest holding, tenon, was also selling at a discount. So their logic is buy RBC & you get tenon + the other assets of RBC. Kind of two for one.

Don't forget, as substantial shareholders they can wield influence over the decisions of the board/management, so with a substantial holding in RBC, & given RBC's control of tenon, they have influence over both businesses. They'll have little clout if they only held tenon. That's how i understand it anyway. Our perspectives are different from theirs, because their stakeholding is of a different nature.

I'm really interested to see what happens with RBC because they now have GPG, Perry, & Third Ave on board. I've just started reading Marty Whitman's(Third Ave) book "value investing" again, he really hammers the "resource conversion/balance sheet" perspective on investing. So when you look at what RBC & Ten offer (with virtually debt free balance sheets) it makes sense for them to be in RBC

RUBICON’S assets:
• 50.1 stake in Tenon
• 50% stake in Horizon 2, a NZ tree cloning company half-owned by CHH
• 32% stake in Aborgen, a US-based tree biotechnology consortium
• 50% stake in Forestadora Tapebicua, an Argentinian eucalypt forest and timber processing business
• 2.8% stake in listed genomics company Genesis Research and Development

TENON’S assets:
Manufacturing facilities
• three North Island sawmills
• Mt Manganui plywood mill
• Taupo mouldings plant and boards plant
• Kawerau remanufacturing plant
• Ramsay Roundwood supplying post, piles, poles and other landscaping products

Distribution ownership:
• 50% stake in American Wood Moulding, a US moulding and millwork distributor, whose major customer is The Home Depot
• 67% stake in The Empire Company, a US moulding and millwork distributor whose major customer is Lowe’s
• 20% stake in Zenia House, a Danish solid wood furniture, manufacturer and distributor

(the above is a little outdated now with the mill sales & incr investment by ten in the distribution assets)

neopole
28-06-2005, 12:10 AM
Rubicon to Change Balance Date to june 30.

thats just around the corner.
when would investors likely see the numbers?
anyone?

donner
28-06-2005, 10:27 AM
Last year they reported on the last possible day. Don't think it will be different this year.

Westie
18-07-2005, 04:59 PM
just about touching the 52 week high :)

ari
19-07-2005, 07:40 AM
quote:Last year they reported on the last possible day. Don't think it will be different this year.
Not till late August, and that is for 15mth period.

Snow Leopard
24-08-2005, 04:56 PM
The full year report is available here (http://stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=RBC&E=NZSE&N=119673)

Taijon
24-08-2005, 08:42 PM
The second to last paragraph reads:

Shareholders will be aware that Rubicon itself had $71 million of cash on itsbalance sheet at the end of the financial year. Rubicon has a strong trackrecord of using its cash to maximise value for shareholders. We have not beenafraid to invest capital where that is appropriate (our continued funding ofArborGen and our takeover of Tenon are good examples of this) and we havealso returned cash to shareholders when that has been the best use of ourcapital (we returned $60 million of cash to shareholders by way of anon-market buy-back in our first year of operation). Shareholders should beconfident that we will adopt the same disciplined approach we have shown inthe past to the use of our current cash balance.

I find this "trust us we know what we are doing on your behalf" approach a bit disappointing. I was hoping for another capital return but it looks as if the company is going to be around for quite a few years yet.

Any comments?

donner
25-08-2005, 10:30 AM
I see they seem to be setting up Horizon 2 as the manufacturing arm of Arborgen. Much the same way if a biotech discovers a medicine they have to produce the pills or tubes or ointment on a mass scale in a factory somewhere.

Arbo is very close to being commercial and there is one passage there that suggests a NASDAQ float or some kind of capital restructurign is on their minds.

They also say it will now be treated as a business not a JV. But don't reveal a valuation. Looking forward to the hard copy to see what the valuation will be. And what GEN have missed out on.

donner
27-08-2005, 11:47 AM
I find this para. particularly intriguing.

In last year's Annual Report we noted that our shares were trading at closeto the Company's book value, and that our goal was to have Rubicon trading atsubstantially above the asset values recorded in our annual financialstatements. We have made considerable progress towards this objective in theyear, with Rubicon shares ending the period trading at a 24% premium to ourhistoric cost book values - a clear statement of the faith that ourshareholders now have in Rubicon's future prospects.

Why the mention of historic values here? Shouldn't it be current book values that matter? Therefore is the current 24% premium of historic values at a discount to even greater premium to current bok values?

They have to reveal all in their accounts sometime next month when it comes to the valuation of Arborgen. I expect the current price will be a discount to the current book value. Technically the charts seem to be supporting such a theory. Watch for a break out in about a month or so.

Lets not forget that the NY fund 3rd Avenue see fit to buy it up big in the last quarter. Not to mention GPG or Perry. Hang on to your hats when it comes.

ari
13-04-2013, 10:56 AM
ArborGen Celebrates Major Milestone with Production of 100 Millionth MCP® Seedling........whoopee!
Just show us the money. Wheres the income? They have also increased payroll with the employment of 3 more 'high flyers'...

barney
13-04-2013, 12:31 PM
Yes, you have to wonder why they felt the need to inform the market of this.

I see the interim review was basically the same as it is every year. Promises,promises with mostly rehashed news from previous reports. They are now even giving one of the reasons for the dismal shareprice performance as "A few selling shareholders, more recently those who have made a 30% gain since the rights offering in the undersubscription pool and who have determined to realise their gain."

Heaven forbid the management and directors, who have been in place for years, take some accountability for the shareprice falling from over $1.20 to 29c.

From the last annual report. Directors fees $414,260, CEO salary $490,000. Total cost to shareholders $904,260 per annum. Not counting anyone else employed by Rubicon. For running a company with 2 assets which have their own management and boards. Not bad work if you can get it.

ari
13-04-2013, 05:03 PM
Yep Barney, you read it just like me......Bryan Gaynor's article of last year questioned why Rubicon even needed to exist.Even companies like CER looked at different avenues to invest in......65c and I'm out, might just have to wait a while!

ari
07-05-2013, 09:35 AM
Comments from forum cira 2007.Quotes...Rubicon, the company that time forgot>Do you reckon that RBC will complete it's takeover of TEN any time soon?>trees as an ideal source of ethanol - they have a high tonnage yield per hectare and are not limited by a ripening season for harvest. ArborGen's technology will have valuable applications for biofuel, she says, but "in the next four years we have five commercial launches, four of which are transgenic products". >ArborGen announced as partner in US$125m bioenergy centre.....6 years on and still waiting (have held shares for 10yrs) new issue last year got everyone talking, next will be IPO for Arbogen!

ari
23-05-2013, 11:46 AM
Quote from 2005 "Does anyone rate this at the moment?" and still asking same question....Rubicon has gone nowhere for years and now trading at .26c with buyers at .22c (last issue price) which was fully subscribed.You would have thought Directors would have got some value back for the long supporting holders....but I suppose when the remuneration keeps coming...why bother. Almost in the basket like the failed finance companies.

biker
23-05-2013, 02:15 PM
I don't see why Rubicon should have any overheads. Mr Moriarty should be able to run the outfit from his laptop on the back porch, copying and pasteing the interim and annual report text and diagrams year by year from the previous ones.
What a sad state of a company at the moment. Sitting on stakes in ArborGen and Tenon and doing absolutely nothing else to increase value for shareholders.
The only dim light on the horizon is the possible ArborGen IPO, but with absolutely no information on possible timing, any real reason now for the delay, and an exchange rate which they obviously have no cover for, it is making the Board and Management appear to be a bunch of lethargic and incompetent wishful thinkers.

ari
30-05-2013, 09:59 AM
Same old....
https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=3359559
still a long wait for anything tangible......almost sounds like it was written to appease disgruntled watchers like on this forum.

biker
30-05-2013, 12:09 PM
If they can also IPO ArborGen, calendar 2014 could/should be a very good year for Rubicon.

Then again, I could also be an incompetent wishful thinker.

All IMO DYOR

barney
31-05-2013, 02:12 PM
https://nzx.com/companies/RBC/announcements/220788

This announcement was made back in March 2012. Given that the regulatory approval process has been shortened to 13 - 16 months, we should be hearing something regarding the approval for Eucalyptus very soon. Maybe then this dog will get a kick.

But then again, this dog is lazy and bloated, so I won't hold my breath.

ari
31-05-2013, 02:19 PM
They still require IPO for expansion, I predicted it would be in the 1st 1/4 '13, certainly got that wrong!

barney
14-06-2013, 11:47 AM
Todays NBR has an article about Rubicon in the Shoeshine column. I don't think it's accessible on line, but it's worth a read.

It basically makes the point that as a result of the improving US housing market and equity markets, Rubicon's time may be about to come again. Quotes an analyst report indicating a Tenon shareprice value of over $2, and Rubicon shareprice target of 57c to 84c.

The article is resonably optomistic but we have been here before and I guess time will tell. In the mean time, I won't get my hopes up.

ari
02-07-2013, 01:38 PM
Edison Investment summary....
Rubicon's investments in Tenon (an NZ-listed, US-focused appearance wood product distributor) and ArborGen (an international developer and supplier of advanced forestry seedlings) offer strong growth profiles and leading positions in their respective markets. Both will benefit from the US housing upturn in the near term. We see upside for Rubicon to NZ$0.84 per share (two-thirds or NZ$0.57 in existing markets, one-third from new ones).

ari
26-07-2013, 01:27 PM
I see the SCUM are on the prowl again with an offer @ .10c a share...YEAH RIGHT!
And as Sourmouth would say......because they can!

zigzag
26-07-2013, 04:52 PM
I see the SCUM are on the prowl again with an offer @ .10c a share...YEAH RIGHT!
And as Sourmouth would say......because they can!

Yeah. I got one too. Their figures were way out of date. I topped up about 6 months ago, but they still had my old holding. Wouldn't get to worked up about it. Just file it in the bin, and forget about it.

ari
26-07-2013, 06:56 PM
anyone want to take a trip across the ditch with a shovel, some lime, rope, grass seed and a nice bottle of vodka?
Nicely put moosie :-)

biker
09-08-2013, 10:00 AM
They still require IPO for expansion, I predicted it would be in the 1st 1/4 '13, certainly got that wrong!
Maybe by only 12 months though Ari? Good to see the price firming. I see today 100,000 @ 35c which was a crossing, so last sale still shows as 33c .
The 3 month graph looks pretty impressive, but alas on tiny volume.
I am continuing to be patient with RBC. I think the eventual return will justify the wait. Things may start to build with the thought of an ArboGen IPO next year.
Interesting too that most of the RBC shares are pretty tightly help by the major shareholders. If Mr Market wants some of these in any volume when their fortunes turn, then the share price could well be squeezed upwards somewhat markedly. The 30s and 40s may suddenly appear to have been good value.
Disc. Holder of RBC and have been waiting for much longer than originally anticipated.

ari
09-08-2013, 12:00 PM
Disc. Holder of RBC and have been waiting for much longer than originally anticipated.
Snap, me too. I was a little out with prediction but surely it has to be soon. As you say, tiny volumes for these tightly held shares. The issue last year was meant to elleviate this but I think there is a lot out there (like me) who need to hang in for the day! Only 44% behind!

WE001
09-08-2013, 07:12 PM
ArborGen Press Release

August 8, 2013
New Research Validates the Value of ArborGen's MCP®Seedlings for Landowners

http://www.arborgen.us/index.php/resources/press-releases

PointyHat
10-08-2013, 05:29 PM
Disc. Holder of RBC and have been waiting for much longer than originally anticipated.[/QUOTE]

Same here Biker, Bought in Oct 2004 74c, even bought some more at 60c march 2010 and averaged - sold @ 1.20 Dec 2010 and 1.19 March 2011. Made about $27k but over 7 years!!! be warned it could be a long haul you newbies, I know the company well and will not buy again. I missed the fall by about 2 months thank goodness.

Funny enough I put a bid in for 50k at 35c 11/05/2011 when they plummeted from this high (the IPO failed) and the NZX refused to sell me, too low a bid they said. I complained and finally they allowed me but I then withdrew. Pleased I did, I think they went to 28C after that.

Long term holding is sometimes necessary, but I think I was wrong to hold RBC for so long, "everyone has the brains to make money on the stockmarket, but not everyone has the stomach" my fav saying and hence I tend not to panick. My problem has always been getting out with a loss, a loss sticks in my craw, so I hold - in RBCs case with no income from my Capital and for far too long.

biker
27-08-2013, 10:52 AM
This is good news. Breathing space for an IPO at the appropriate time and pressure off Rubicon for more funds.
Eventually this stock will fly.
My philosophy on RBC at these levels is
RISK + PATIENCE (lots of) = REWARD.

DISC. RBC holder


REL: 0956 HRS Rubicon Limited

GENERAL: RBC: Rubicon informs market of ArborGen bank facility renewal

27 August 2013 - Today Rubicon announced that ArborGen Inc, (31.67% owned by
Rubicon), the world's leader in reforestation and a global supplier of
genetically elite seedlings, had amended its existing US banking facility.

The existing bank financing agreement was for a term of one year, and was to
have expired on 31 August 2013. However, ArborGen has, today signed an
amendment to this agreement, which extends the facility term out another two
years, to 31 August 2015.

Luke Moriarty, Rubicon's CEO, said, "With this extended US facility now in
place, and with ArborGen's NZ bank facility also in place out to November
2015, the debt refinancing of ArborGen and its subsidiaries has now been
completed for a two-year period. With that concluded, ArborGen is now far
better placed to realise the full value from its existing operational
strategies."

About ArborGen

ArborGen is the world leader in reforestation and a global supplier of
genetically elite seedlings. It produces and sells over 275 million seedlings
annually in the United States, Australia, and New Zealand, where it holds
leading market positions. As the premier provider of improved technologies to
forests managers and landowners, ArborGen is developing high-value products
that significantly improve the economic returns and productivity of a given
acre of land. These products enable ArborGen's customers to grow trees that
yield more wood per acre with greater consistency and quality in a shorter
period of time. ArborGen's work is improving the sustainability of working
forests while helping to meet the world's growing need for wood, fibre and
energy.

END
End CA:00240225 For:RBC Type:GENERAL Time:2013-08-27 09:56:21

PointyHat
27-08-2013, 11:22 AM
................... is now far
better placed to realise the full value from its existing operational
strategies." ..............

Well I gave them 7 years up to March 2011 and they are still saying the same old that they were hiping in 2004, 5,6,7,8 etc.

I don't see anything different now.

Good luck ' hope it al goes well for anyone investing in RBC.

ari
13-09-2013, 12:17 PM
Shares very tightly held with no sellers showing at all following 1 sale. Could be a good sign if it turns.

biker
14-09-2013, 04:08 AM
Shares very tightly held with no sellers showing at all following 1 sale. Could be a good sign if it turns.

I agree ari. I can't really see any point in selling RBC at this point. Anyone with patience enough to hold this long IMO is getting near the front of the waiting line. It wouldn't surprise me to see a value realizing event in the next 12 months, making selling now seem a bit short sighted. At some stage RBC shares may be a bit hard to come buy at anywhere near these levels.

Disc. Hold quite a few so I'm biased

biker
23-09-2013, 09:44 AM
Nice to see a buyer of 100,000 at 40c, still waiting for the balance and few sellers.

Could this be the end of the opportunity to buy RBC in any quantity in the 30's? Here's to the end of the 40's !

Disc. Hold quite a few so I'm biased ( and far too optimistic)

ari
28-09-2013, 03:24 PM
Lookin good.......
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/182552.pdf

biker
17-10-2013, 03:30 PM
Nice to see Hugh Fletcher buying 500,000 shares at av 35.1 cps. $175,000 more than a gesture I would suggest. A board member that has an eye on the future ArborGen IPO?

Disc. Hold quite a few so I'm biased.

ari
17-10-2013, 03:36 PM
Yep, I'm fairly biased as well, got my first RBC back in 2004 and still waiting for the golden egg! I need 58.9 to come out square. Bank deposit would have been well ahead by now...

Food4Thought
17-10-2013, 03:43 PM
After holding them far to long, losing..., I think they should have changed their name to RBSH... for those who hold... hoping the best for you

Food4Thought
17-10-2013, 03:51 PM
After holding them far to long, losing..., I think they should have changed their name to RBSH... for those who hold... hoping the best for you

Okay, perhaps I am a little sour on RBC... not as sour as RAK. If only then I knew what I know now... I think a cheap long term lesson... as expensive as it was...

WE001
29-10-2013, 12:11 AM
October 22, 2013
ArborGen Launches Brazilian Eucalyptus Seedling Business
Agreement with International Paper do Brazil will make elite Eucalyptus Varietals broadly available to Brazilian growers for the first time

http://www.arborgen.us/index.php/resources/press-releases

biker
03-12-2013, 07:24 AM
RBC ASM Thursday. Hoping for an announcement on ArborGen IPO but expecting the same old same old. Anyone going? 9.30am Waipuna Lodge.

ari
03-12-2013, 08:26 AM
RBC ASM Thursday. Hoping for an announcement on ArborGen IPO but expecting the same old same old. Anyone going? 9.30am Waipuna Lodge.
Was tossing up whether to go, but as I live 40kms north of the bridge deemed it a waste of fuel. And as you say Biker ...same old same old....and then 'we thank the shareholders for their ongoing support'.......

ari
04-12-2013, 11:17 AM
Hoping for an announcement on ArborGen IPO but expecting the same old same old. Anyone going? 9.30am Waipuna Lodge.
Biker you might be onto something, up 2 and asks at 40

biker
04-12-2013, 12:04 PM
Biker you might be onto something, up 2 and asks at 40

Could just be a reaction to the Tenon ASM presentation.
I'm going to the RBC meeting tomorrow - for a cup of tea and a yawn.

zigzag
04-12-2013, 04:43 PM
Could just be a reaction to the Tenon ASM presentation.
I'm going to the RBC meeting tomorrow - for a cup of tea and a yawn.

9.30am way out at Waipuna. But I will try and make it. What kind of biker are you? Harley or pedal power. Leathers or Lycra. If you want to say hello........I'm the guy with the golden earing. Hoping for a bit more than a cup of tea and a yawn. Chocolate lammingtons would be nice.

biker
05-12-2013, 12:05 PM
9.30am way out at Waipuna. But I will try and make it. What kind of biker are you? Harley or pedal power. Leathers or Lycra. If you want to say hello........I'm the guy with the golden earing. Hoping for a bit more than a cup of tea and a yawn. Chocolate lammingtons would be nice.

Didn't see you there zigzag but didn't hang around for the tea and tiny cakes.
Was happy with what I heard. A big push to enhance ArborGen's fundamentals with what I took to be an intention, all things going well, of progressing an IPO in 2014.
I'm picking late in the second half of the calander year, but the better the shape of ArborGen the greater the success of the IPO and they obviously want to make sure it is fully ready which seems reasonable to me and hopefully worth the wait.
It would seem from the answer to a question from the floor that the initial aborted IPO attempt was to be based on hype and next time around will be based on more solid fundamentals.
Also in answer to someone's question to Hugh Fletcher on why he bought a million shares at the end of November, he said he was selling what he saw as some overpriced shares and buying in to underpriced ones.

A bit of the same old same old but I think things are gradually coming together for TEN and ArborGen and 2014 could and should, be a much better year at last, for Rubicon.

Disc. hold a few so I'm biased.

psychic
05-12-2013, 02:32 PM
Damn. Muddled over this all morning. Congrats Holders

psychic
05-12-2013, 02:34 PM
Oh -now see 2 small trades did it.
Well, hopefully this may spur some interest

ari
05-12-2013, 02:53 PM
Just back on computer.........well bugger me day's $12k+ with a couple of trades...always in for the ride, be nice if it stayed!

Think someone pushed the wrong button!

ari
13-01-2014, 09:37 AM
That's looking more solid...let's hope it will hold this time!

silverblizzard888
13-01-2014, 09:40 AM
Indeed , im sure this article played a massive role today.

"Rubicon worth twice share price, say experts"
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11185247

ari
13-01-2014, 09:56 AM
Thank's for that silverb.......Edison have been saying that for sometime and finally Herald pick it up. It had to happen eventually with US housing on the up. All we need now is for Arbogen to turn the corner, although there will be an IPO to get there.

silverblizzard888
13-01-2014, 10:06 AM
Yeah lets hope its up and up from here.

I found this article with this part, whiching interestingly states "ArborGen float by July 1, 2014"

2012 article of course though, but it would be a good sign if things are going according to their plan.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/rubicon-raise-21m-1-3-rights-issue-wb-120411

silverblizzard888
13-01-2014, 10:53 AM
Had some time to do a small valuation.

Tenon (RBC own 59%) at current $1.48 (today price) = $57 million
(mind you edison did put a value of $2.24 to $2.50, but we will just do current market value for accuracy)

ArborGen (RBC owns 31.67%) at valuation of 794 million NZD = 251 million
(all figures rounded except %)

Taking 308 million valuation divide by the current 379,719,975 shares gives valuation of 0.81 cents per share.

Even if I take a very conservative approach (given ArborGen value may have changed) and say both companies are worth $250 million we would still get 0.658 cents. Seems theres very good value based on valuation of companies owned.

silverblizzard888
13-01-2014, 03:29 PM
Not a bad day for RBC, good awareness made on the stock worth. Some decent depth building in the forties zone. Has held up throughout the day and staying round the high mid forties. Volumes being quite high today is no surprise, might see a slight pull back tomorrow on volumes, but my bet would be another push a bit more upwards pass to the fifties zone. Value is there, let's see it realised!

ari
10-02-2014, 08:21 AM
Here we go again........thought they were done with capital raising.....RBC
10/02/2014 08:30
PLACE

REL: 0830 HRS Rubicon Limited

PLACE: RBC: Rubicon to raise NZ$12m (USD10m) in a new share placement

10 February 2014 - Rubicon announced today that it will be raising NZ$12
million (USD10 million) from a placement of shares, with the new capital
being used to strengthen the Company's funding position, and to support its
future commitments to its global forestry biotechnology investment, ArborGen.

International investor, Libra Fund II (Luxembourg) ("Libra"), has agreed to
subscribe for 29.3 million new ordinary Rubicon shares, which will rank pari
passu with Rubicon's existing issued shares. The issue price will be NZ41.29
cents per share, which is the volume weighted average Rubicon share price
over the last 10 trading days on the NZX. Settlement will occur at the same
time the shares are issued, which will be at 5pm on Wednesday 12 February
2014.

Mr Kasnet, the Chairman of Rubicon, said "This is a very positive development
for the Company. Libra is a savvy investor, who clearly sees value in Rubicon
moving forward. We are extremely pleased to have them coming onto our share
register at this time, and we believe they will provide a supportive role in
helping the Company achieve its key shareholder goals."

Libra will hold a 7.2% interest in Rubicon upon completion of the placement.

biker
10-02-2014, 08:33 AM
Here we go again........thought they were done with capital raising.....RBC

Yes indeed, but if it bolsters ArborGen leading into an IPO it's got to be a good thing. Good to see Libra willing to invest in RBC's future. Just wish they had paid a bit more. Even though they paid VWA, to get 7.2% of RBC at 41.29c is stealing, as the future will verify I have no doubt.

ari
10-02-2014, 12:27 PM
Yes indeed, but if it bolsters ArborGen leading into an IPO it's got to be a good thing. Good to see Libra willing to invest in RBC's future. Just wish they had paid a bit more. Even though they paid VWA, to get 7.2% of RBC at 41.29c is stealing, as the future will verify I have no doubt.
All IMHO and I hold quite a few so I'm biased.
Yes indeed biker, I have a fairly sizeable fist full too, just wish there was more news from Arbogen other than how many seedlings are out there.

ari
13-02-2014, 06:28 AM
Part of Edison report.....A NZ$12m (US$10m) fresh equity injection both endorses Rubicon’s value creation strategy and reinforces the company’s interest in ArborGen in our view. Our fundamental sum-of-the-parts valuation becomes NZ$0.83-0.86. We look for confirmation of trading progress at both Tenon and ArborGen in forthcoming H1 results to continue the forward share price momentum.

Rubicon is a forestry investment company with holdings in Tenon (NZ-listed, US-focused appearance wood product distributor) and ArborGen (an international developer and supplier of advanced forestry seedlings).

ari
26-03-2014, 11:20 AM
Whatever they are doing to boost share price needs a rethink......has Rubicon got a future?

ari
26-03-2014, 11:20 AM
Whatever they are doing to boost share price needs a rethink......has Rubicon got a future?

ari
26-03-2014, 11:20 AM
Whatever they are doing to boost share price needs a rethink......has Rubicon got a future?

ari
26-03-2014, 11:20 AM
Whatever they are doing to boost share price needs a rethink......has Rubicon got a future?

ari
06-05-2014, 10:44 AM
Old news....somehow missed it! http://www.odt.co.nz/news/farming/297938/edendale-nursery-sold-large-forestry-biotech

winner69
06-05-2014, 10:53 AM
exzuse my ignorance .... does Arborgene make any money?

ari
06-05-2014, 11:13 AM
exzuse my ignorance .... does Arborgene make any money?
Appears it must, just made this purchase. In saying that, no, not alot has come out of Arborgen to date. IPO must be on the table again. Long suffering RBC shareholders have waited a long time for some return, not one of my best investments!

biker
14-05-2014, 08:34 AM
I like this bit ......'This Facility extension is important ......, as we look to near-term value realisation in Rubicon."

and especially this bit .....'near-term'


as at 08:58:16, Wednesday 14 May, 2014 (NZT)
GENERAL: RBC: Rubicon's US$20 million Bank Facility Extended

RBC
14/05/2014 08:58
GENERAL

REL: 0858 HRS Rubicon Limited

GENERAL: RBC: Rubicon's US$20 million Bank Facility Extended

14 May 2014 - Rubicon's CEO Luke Moriarty announced today that "the Company's
US$20 million bank financing Facility with the ANZ Bank New Zealand Limited
("ANZ"), which was to have expired on 1 July 2014, has been extended through
to 1 July 2015. All financial terms of the existing Facility, including its
secured financing structure, remain as is."

Mr Kasnet, Rubicon's Chairman said "The ANZ has been our core banking
relationship for over ten years now, and it has always been supportive in the
provision of bank funding to assist us in meeting our business objectives for
the Company. This Facility extension is important in that respect, as we look
to near-term value realisation in Rubicon."

The Facility extension is effective immediately. Rubicon's existing debt
balance today is approximately US$9.5 million.

END

ari
22-05-2014, 10:02 AM
Phew...that's a bit of a hit on RBC so far this morning. Anyone spotted any news??

ari
06-06-2014, 12:22 PM
Rubicon starting to fly, just hope it has enough fuel this time.........

biker
29-08-2014, 04:15 PM
Annual announcement due any day now. To be hoped its not the same old same old.........

Cut and paste from the last five years announcements, add a few platitudes, garnish with some more vague references to the future and there, thats that done for another year.......

Or is my impatience just exaggerating my cynicism?

barney
29-08-2014, 04:20 PM
It was so good biker that I think you missed it. And yes, it was same old same old. Announced late Friday from memory .

biker
29-08-2014, 04:41 PM
It was so good biker that I think you missed it. And yes, it was same old same old. Announced late Friday from memory .

FFS Barney you're right! And it says the following!!!!!......
ARBORGEN
Much of the text of this section has been purposely extracted directly from the Rubicon (2013) ASM (CEO and Chairman) presentations and from the 2014 Interim Review, as the Company believes those materials still represent the most relevant discussion material for Rubicon shareholders at this time.

Lizard
29-08-2014, 04:46 PM
FFS Barney you're right! And it says the following!!!!!......
ARBORGEN
Much of the text of this section has been purposely extracted directly from the Rubicon (2013) ASM (CEO and Chairman) presentations and from the 2014 Interim Review, as the Company believes those materials still represent the most relevant discussion material for Rubicon shareholders at this time.

If only more companies were so forthright and didn't just leave you with that "de ja vu" feeling...:p

barney
30-08-2014, 09:53 AM
FFS Barney you're right! And it says the following!!!!!......
ARBORGEN
Much of the text of this section has been purposely extracted directly from the Rubicon (2013) ASM (CEO and Chairman) presentations and from the 2014 Interim Review, as the Company believes those materials still represent the most relevant discussion material for Rubicon shareholders at this time.

Truly remarkable isn't it. How the same Management and Board are still in place I don't know.

I bet what we see next year is another attempt at an IPO for Arborgen. Just when the US Fed pulls back on printing money and the US markets head south, after this year hitting record levels. Then the excuses will come about not being able to launch an IPO in the "current market conditions". I can just see it.

ari
30-08-2014, 12:53 PM
I see both Mitre10 and Bunnings are firing on DIY wave......just hope the same is happening in the US for Tenon. Not holding a lot of hope for Arborgen for the next couple of years.

winner69
31-08-2014, 12:22 AM
Truly remarkable isn't it. How the same Management and Board are still in place I don't know.

I bet what we see next year is another attempt at an IPO for Arborgen. Just when the US Fed pulls back on printing money and the US markets head south, after this year hitting record levels. Then the excuses will come about not being able to launch an IPO in the "current market conditions". I can just see it.

The guy currently in charge of PEB successfully commercialised Arborgen about 10 years ago

So is it still not making money?

What's up?

ari
03-11-2014, 12:40 PM
I've got patience, but fast runnning out with RBC. I first invested just over 10 yrs ago and in that time nothing startling has happened. US new housing stats are up but this does not even roll over to share price...TEN has picked up about 15>16% over 6 mths but RBC has gone down over same period. Should of jumped long ago....but in too deep. It's the only share holding back my port folio. Anyone have any thoughts?

GTM 3442
03-11-2014, 05:07 PM
I've got patience, but fast runnning out with RBC. I first invested just over 10 yrs ago and in that time nothing startling has happened. US new housing stats are up but this does not even roll over to share price...TEN has picked up about 15>16% over 6 mths but RBC has gone down over same period. Should of jumped long ago....but in too deep. It's the only share holding back my port folio. Anyone have any thoughts?

I am coming to the conclusion that Rubicon is a vehicle exhbiting signs of having been captured by management, and run for their benefit, rather than for the benefit of shareholders.

There seems little reason for it to exist.

Float ArborGen, flog off the Tenon shares, and wind it up.

ari
04-11-2014, 06:33 AM
I am coming to the conclusion that Rubicon is a vehicle exhbiting signs of having been captured by management, and run for their benefit, rather than for the benefit of shareholders.

There seems little reason for it to exist.

Float ArborGen, flog off the Tenon shares, and wind it up.
I would have to agree with your excellent synopsis GTM

barney
04-11-2014, 09:45 AM
Have just received in this mornings post the annual shareholders meeting notice. Hugh Fletcher and George Karaplis are standing for re-election. According to the explanatory notes, both are great candidates, especially George who " has over 35 years of experience building and growing shareholder value and has a proven track record in high growth companies." Maybe they should have added " except for Rubicon shareholders."

It beggars belief that the same Directors and Executives are still running this company. Accountability seems to be non existent. What do they do when they have a board meeting given both Tennon and Arborgen have their own boards and management ? Discuss the weather maybe.

The gravy train rolls along.

winner69
04-11-2014, 10:24 AM
Whenever people mention Arborgen I think of what PEB will look like in 10 years

Successful commercialisation is interpreted as bring to market, profits don't come into the equation.

Ask David Darling what he thought 10 years ago

GTM 3442
04-11-2014, 01:12 PM
And no notice to the stock exchange. The letters were posted on Friday. Muppets.
What really are we paying them for?
I wonder if Moriarty actually lives in NZ anymore?
I will be at the meeting.

Speak loudly and take a big stick.

biker
03-12-2014, 01:41 PM
Anyone else going to the ASM on Friday?

ari
03-12-2014, 03:29 PM
Anyone else going to the ASM on Friday?

......Finally, we would like to thank all of our shareholders, employees,
and customers for your continued support. As always, it is very
much appreciated.

Feel free to have 2 bikies and a cup of tea.......

ari
04-12-2014, 10:58 AM
Closing statement from todays Tenon meeting........Let me conclude now, by simply saying - your Company is in good health. 2014 was a
good start, and there is much more to come for shareholders..

How long does one have to wait...bit like the second coming.

zigzag
06-12-2014, 07:41 AM
According to the Herald, RBC has a new ceo, by the name of Jenny Gibbs. Where do they get these stupid stories from?

ari
06-12-2014, 09:14 AM
You really have to wonder?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11369727

zigzag
06-12-2014, 10:54 AM
Looks like they've corrected their story now. Luke Moriarty is re-instated.

mikeybycrikey
07-12-2014, 10:12 AM
I've just been reading through the documents from the annual meeting and it all seems pretty positive. However, in the CEO's address, he says "All of these initiatives, ... , have allowed Tenon to upgrade its mid-cycle EBITDA guidance to US$45 million per annum."

In the footnotes, they say that this USD of 0.70 NZD and 1.65 million housing starts (currently 1.009 million). I accept that 1.65 million starts and a USD rate of 0.70 aren't unreasonably optimistic but that's certainly not an outlook for 2015. And it might not even happen in 2016.

It seems to make the estimate of EBITDA of $45 million "mid-cycle" seem like pie in the sky rather than an actual estimate.

biker
17-03-2015, 06:36 PM
Interesting that ACC have bought 75000 shares to take them above the 5% and onto the radar.
Maybe they just saw RBC for sale at 32c and couldn't resisist a bargain :-)
(Still above my average buy in)
I think this year Rubicon will be getting near the end of the road, one way or the other, so having travelled the long and winding road with them this far I will hang on for the ride to the profitable ( hopefully) or bitter (possibly) end.
The market certainly continues to show a complete lack of interest, but then where are bargains to be found? Certainly not in some of the fruity expectIons displayed in many of the current share prices.

Disc. Hold quite a few so treat my comments as biased and take with a pinch of salt

ari
18-03-2015, 08:43 AM
Yep Biker it's been a long haul, in fact I've been waiting 11 years!

nzspeak
18-03-2015, 06:24 PM
but then where are bargains to be found? Certainly not in some of the fruity expectIons displayed in many of the current share prices

That's the million dollar question which has never been asked so well.

ari
10-04-2015, 06:31 AM
Latest Edison report well worth a read...Our analysis suggests that the market is undervaluing Rubicon’s two
investments individually and, therefore, the company itself. Tenon’s
ongoing profit recovery and increased penetration of advanced genetics
seedlings and a potential financing/liquidity event for ArborGen are likely
to be the key drivers of a higher Rubicon share price, in our view. We see a
fundamental valuation range of between NZ$0.64 and NZ$1.06 per share.

psychic
13-04-2015, 11:58 AM
Bit sad when this highly tuned market place of ours needs an Edison report and a little bit of coverage in the local rag to recognise value, but there you go. Parcel of 1.0m shares through this morning at .32 and the rest of that long standing overhang at 32.5 gone. Just like that. Sheesh.

biker
13-04-2015, 04:17 PM
Latest Edison report well worth a read...Our analysis suggests that the market is undervaluing Rubicon’s two
investments individually and, therefore, the company itself. Tenon’s
ongoing profit recovery and increased penetration of advanced genetics
seedlings and a potential financing/liquidity event for ArborGen are likely
to be the key drivers of a higher Rubicon share price, in our view. We see a
fundamental valuation range of between NZ$0.64 and NZ$1.06 per share.

But then some of us knew that already didn't we?
Is today's action ACC buying some more cheapies?
Is that the last of the cheapies?
Could Tenon be sold to provide cash for Rubicon shareholders and to provide funding for ArborGen?

?

winner69
13-04-2015, 04:33 PM
But then some of us knew that already didn't we?
Is today's action ACC buying some more cheapies?
Is that the last of the cheapies?
Could Tenon be sold to provide cash for Rubicon shareholders and to provide funding for ArborGen?

?

I thought David Darling successfully commercialised Arborgen years ago, before he left and went to PEB

Surely they still not in need of cash?

psychic
19-05-2015, 12:08 PM
https://www.nzx.com/companies/RBC/announcements/264466

Rubicon’s Chairman, Steve Kasnet, said "We are very pleased that we have secured Rubicon’s funding through fiscal 2016, and we believe that this announcement today should remove any ‘overhang’ in our share price in that regard.

Well, I'm glad that "overhang" has been sorted. Someone call Steve tell him the market hasn't noticed..

ari
19-05-2015, 12:30 PM
https://www.nzx.com/companies/RBC/announcements/264466

Rubicon’s Chairman, Steve Kasnet, said "We are very pleased that we have secured Rubicon’s funding through fiscal 2016, and we believe that this announcement today should remove any ‘overhang’ in our share price in that regard.

Well, I'm glad that "overhang" has been sorted. Someone call Steve tell him the market hasn't noticed..

Similar statement following share placement in Feb 2014 ...Mr Kasnet, the Chairman of Rubicon, said "We have been pleased with the
positive shareholder feedback we have had from the Libra placement, as
evidenced by the Rubicon share price which has lifted more than 10% since the
announcement." .......Yeah right, then what!

biker
02-06-2015, 01:25 PM
Happy to pick up some more today at 30c.

Disc. Looking for a 100% gain and braced for a possible loss over the next 12 months. The reward of the former far outweighs the risk of the latter IMO.
DYOR.

GTM 3442
02-06-2015, 01:55 PM
Happy to pick up some more today at 30c.

Disc. Looking for a 100% gain and braced for a possible loss over the next 12 months. The reward of the former far outweighs the risk of the latter IMO.
DYOR.

Hang on! That's what I told myself two or three years ago.

GTM 3442
22-06-2015, 02:48 PM
I see that ACC have been selling out and moving on.

Starting to feel a bit lonely . . . .

biker
22-06-2015, 03:26 PM
I see that ACC have been selling out and moving on.

. . . .

If ATM is anything to go by, that is a good sign!

beetills
14-08-2015, 12:46 PM
Not being very intelligent i wonder if someone can tell me what the sell off by a substansial shareholder actually means and why they would do it?.
I hold a few shares in this company hoping that one day that i will prosper.Looks like a distant dream at the moment.

biker
14-08-2015, 03:16 PM
Not being very intelligent i wonder if someone can tell me what the sell off by a substansial shareholder actually means and why they would do it?.
I hold a few shares in this company hoping that one day that i will prosper.Looks like a distant dream at the moment.

I think you're more intelligent than you make out.

The dream is not as distant as it was 5 years ago.

ari
14-08-2015, 05:00 PM
I think you're more intelligent than you make out.

The dream is not as distant as it was 5 years ago.

Just looked up my history, first BUY was 2004.....I've had the dream for 11 years!!! Not going to fold yet!

beetills
19-08-2015, 09:46 AM
Isee that housing starts in the U.S.A. are 12% up on last month so i would expect the Tenon share price to rise and by default Rubicon or would that be to much to ask.

GTM 3442
19-08-2015, 02:04 PM
Isee that housing starts in the U.S.A. are 12% up on last month so i would expect the Tenon share price to rise and by default Rubicon or would that be to much to ask.

Probably it is, once you strip out currency.

iceman
19-08-2015, 02:47 PM
Isee that housing starts in the U.S.A. are 12% up on last month so i would expect the Tenon share price to rise and by default Rubicon or would that be to much to ask.

Yep it is too much to ask. The market is frustratingly uninterested !!

ari
20-08-2015, 09:32 AM
Annual Review should be out any day now....same old crap? Thank you to all the shareholders and your continuing support......

ari
31-08-2015, 08:30 AM
Dividend payments to begin immediately for Tenon
o First dividend of NZ5.0 cps declared in respect of fiscal ‘15 – payment in Nov ‘15
o Intention is to make two dividend payments per year
o Next dividend3
to be in relation to the 2016 Interim Result period – payment in
April ‘16
o Future dividend rates (i.e. cents per share) yet to be determined3
o Future payments will also be subject to3
the outcome of Strategic Review

Now that should help, now for the share price!

iceman
31-08-2015, 09:12 AM
Dividend payments to begin immediately for Tenon
o First dividend of NZ5.0 cps declared in respect of fiscal ‘15 – payment in Nov ‘15
o Intention is to make two dividend payments per year
o Next dividend3
to be in relation to the 2016 Interim Result period – payment in
April ‘16
o Future dividend rates (i.e. cents per share) yet to be determined3
o Future payments will also be subject to3
the outcome of Strategic Review

Now that should help, now for the share price!

Definitely good news Ari. The increasing strength of the USD and US economic activity growth, will support further good news coming our way. TEN reaction positive this morning so lets hope we see some long awaited action with RBC as well !!

forest
31-08-2015, 11:22 AM
Definitely good news Ari. The increasing strength of the USD and US economic activity growth, will support further good news coming our way. TEN reaction positive this morning so lets hope we see some long awaited action with RBC as well !!

3. Earnings Guidance - In addition to these announcements, the Company also gave insight on its internal forward earnings targets. Mr Moriarty said, “Net earnings trebled in the FY ‘15 year just completed, and our expectation is for materially higher earnings next year. In this respect we are internally targeting EBITDA2 in excess of $20 million1,2 for fiscal ‘16 (excluding FX gains / losses). We reiterate our mid-cycle3 EBITDA guidance of circa $50 million.”
All references in this document to $ or “dollars” are references to United States dollars unless otherwise stated.

A quick valuation, 50mil US EBITDA should give us more then NZ$70mil EBITDA in mid cycle (assuming exchange rate wont go much over
70c NZ/US).
So say NPAT mid cycle of 50% of that, this will give a $NZ35mil.
Lets allow a low mid cycle P/E of 6 and the value of TEN shares comes out at over NZ$3.00.

Present SP NZ$2.30, sure liquidity is low but is this the best value on the NZX today?

Forest.

ari
24-09-2015, 11:26 AM
There always appears to something in the background with Rubicon......what's the fig for fighting this one...RBC

24/09/2015 11:58
GENERAL
NOT PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 1158 HRS Rubicon Limited

GENERAL: RBC: ArborGen Court case - update

24 September 2015 - Further to last week's announcement in relation to the
on-going ArborGen employee matter, Rubicon said the Plaintiffs were now also
seeking costs and interest in the amount of US$10 million from ArborGen, the
three partner defendants (including Rubicon) and their representatives.
Rubicon repeated that although the South Carolina Court had yet to make any
ruling on the case, its intention is to vigorously appeal any adverse
outcome. Any appeals process could take some considerable period of time to
be determined.

END

psychic
24-09-2015, 11:37 AM
Anyone else here have an inkling about this employee action against Arborgen? US$43m and now a further US$10m sought. Origins 2010.

Not a hint of this in the accounts for as long as I've been reading them , and yet if RBC's 30% interest in Arborgen warrants NZX disclosure of these developments now, how is it that some sort of note or contingency has not been necessary in the past?

I am starting to think that all this fluff about floating Arborgen when the time is right is absolute BS. No way could they float with this thing around the corner.

These guys snoozing away in the RBC boardroom year in year out - what do they do exactly?

beetills
24-09-2015, 12:47 PM
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

ari
24-09-2015, 12:53 PM
Anyone else here have an inkling about this employee action against Arborgen? US$43m and now a further US$10m sought. Origins 2010.

Not a hint of this in the accounts for as long as I've been reading them , and yet if RBC's 30% interest in Arborgen warrants NZX disclosure of these developments now, how is it that some sort of note or contingency has not been necessary in the past?

I am starting to think that all this fluff about floating Arborgen when the time is right is absolute BS. No way could they float with this thing around the corner.

These guys snoozing away in the RBC boardroom year in year out - what do they do exactly?

Exactly psychic...nothing mentioned in the a/c's, then have the audacity to say 'not price sensitive' !

ari
24-09-2015, 01:00 PM
Did not realise it goes back to 2010!
On November 24, 2010, several of our employees filed a Complaint in the First Judicial Circuit of the Court of Common Pleas in South Carolina, which was replaced on November 29, 2010 with an Amended Complaint. The suit named as defendants us, our current directors, certain of our current officers, certain of our former directors and officers and a number of other parties, including thirteen of our current employees. In January 2011, the thirteen current employees were dismissed from the suit. The suit alleges that the plaintiffs and certain other of our current employees have rights based on a document that the plaintiffs allege provides for larger potential payouts to employees than the incentive plan that we actually adopted. The plaintiffs seek relief through a declaratory judgment, specific performance, an accounting and monetary damages. We intend to vigorously defend this suit.

ari
28-10-2015, 01:09 PM
Tenon going well but why the hangup on RBC?

iceman
28-10-2015, 01:23 PM
Tenon going well but why the hangup on RBC?

At least we are seeing a bit of volume going through on RBC and up 10% last couple of days. TEN up again today but on next to no volume. Mind you difficult to buy TEN as sellers are almost non existent.

GTM 3442
03-12-2015, 04:28 PM
So, it's official. Instead of yesterday's jam today, we we will get today's jam tomorrow. Yippee!

iceman
04-12-2015, 03:08 AM
So, it's official. Instead of yesterday's jam today, we we will get today's jam tomorrow. Yippee!

Have just read the CEO´s and Chairman´s reports and think you´ve summed them up very accurately GTM. Disappointing. Luckily we are getting some dividends from TEN to fund the ongoing cashburn from ArborGen !

ari
16-12-2015, 04:25 PM
Confirmation on Arbogen just released....16 December 2015 – Consistent with previous announcements in relation to the on-going
ArborGen employee matter (including the Chairman’s presentation at the Company’s ASM
earlier this month), Rubicon announced today that the South Carolina lower court had
signed an order in favour of the nine plaintiffs, awarding damages of US$43 million plus
costs and interest of US$10 million from ArborGen, the three partner defendants (including
Rubicon), and their past and present representatives (jointly and severally). Rubicon
repeated that the intention is for ArborGen and each of the three partners to vigorously
appeal the lower court’s decision, and that they had been advised such appeals process
could take a considerable period of time to be determined.

beetills
16-12-2015, 04:50 PM
I like the way in which the NZX list the announcement as ""not price sensitive""".
I would think that the announcement would stop everyone except the very brave and those in the know from buying in.
Meanwhile the long standing shareholder waits and waits.It won;t happen overnight but hopefully it does happen..

winner69
16-12-2015, 05:37 PM
What is the court case all about?

ari
16-12-2015, 06:43 PM
What is the court case all about? From statutory report 2015....5.1(c) Other risks
A small group of ArborGen’s present and former employees have taken a lawsuit against ArborGen, its partner companies and its (current
and former) directors and offi cers, in relation to possible incentive payments to be made upon an IPO or sale of ArborGen (or a sale of all
or substantially all of its assets). ArborGen and its partners have vigorously defended this action. Whilst the initial court proceedings were
concluded in January 2015 and fi nal submissions were made in June 2015, the legal outcome is unknown as at the date these fi nancial
statements are signed, and is likely to remain unknown for some time

Still does not say a lot.....so much for 'Strategic review' for looking at ways to lift share value.

So the way I see it, the claim is for something that could 'possibly' happen in the future.......mind you it is the US of A!

Balance
17-12-2015, 07:03 AM
The logical step to benefit from the strategic review is to switch from RBC to Tenon?

AborGen has been a burden for RBC and looks like will be a burden for a while yet.

biker
17-12-2015, 10:24 AM
The logical step to benefit from the strategic review is to switch from RBC to Tenon?

AborGen has been a burden for RBC and looks like will be a burden for a while yet.

Bearing in mind RBC hold 60% of TEN and that the market is currently putting a value of just $US10-11Million on Rubicon's share of ArborGen, or an enterprise value of just 30-44 Million, I would still see greater upside in RBC even with its pending liability.
If/when ArborGen eventually becomes profitable the upside for RBC is considerable, while also being exposed to 60% of pending TEN gains. I am happy to forego 40% of TEN gains to retain exposure to the ArborGen potential, and accept the increased risk for the potentially much greater reward.
Also the lack of liquidity in both stocks would make switching any meaningful quantity quite difficult at these prices.

Balance
17-12-2015, 03:12 PM
Bearing in mind RBC hold 60% of TEN and that the market is currently putting a value of just $US10-11Million on Rubicon's share of ArborGen, or an enterprise value of just 30-44 Million, I would still see greater upside in RBC even with its pending liability.
If/when ArborGen eventually becomes profitable the upside for RBC is considerable, while also being exposed to 60% of pending TEN gains. I am happy to forego 40% of TEN gains to retain exposure to the ArborGen potential, and accept the increased risk for the potentially much greater reward.
Also the lack of liquidity in both stocks would make switching any meaningful quantity quite difficult at these prices.

According to the last AR, RBC is still having to pump money into AborGen to keep it going. That does not fill me with confidence about any valuation attached to AborGen.

beetills
18-12-2015, 11:08 AM
NBR today has a headline that reads"""Bait and Switch allegations behind Rubicon lawsuit""
Because it's behind paid content i will have to wait untill i go to the library to see what the story is,unless someone on here can enlighten me and others.

Crac A Jac
24-12-2015, 02:31 PM
According to the last AR, RBC is still having to pump money into AborGen to keep it going. That does not fill me with confidence about any valuation attached to AborGen.

Looks like, despite debt, Tenon is paying dividends,pumping money mainly to Rubicon, which does make you wonder how and why Rubicon should exist; where is the added value?? the market can't see it either.
Why should Tenon effectively borrow money to give Rubicon dividends?.

ari
26-12-2015, 06:05 AM
NBR today has a headline that reads"""Bait and Switch allegations behind Rubicon lawsuit""
Because it's behind paid content i will have to wait untill i go to the library to see what the story is,unless someone on here can enlighten me and others.

Thought someone would have enlightened us by now....you have me intrigued now. Surely someone on here has an NBR sub.

iceman
26-12-2015, 08:47 AM
Thought someone would have enlightened us by now....you have me intrigued now. Surely someone on here has an NBR sub.

The article talks about the US lawsuit and says court documents show allegations RBC played a part in “bait and switch” operation to rip off staff at Arborgen. Basically comes down to claims of deceit against the Board and Management of Arborgen involving an attempt to deny staff their rightful share of the growing value of the Company.

A court filing shows an employee who was offered employment by Arborgen in November 2002 as a research associate at a base salary of $US46,500 a year, plus participation in the firm’s “New Value Added” equity plan. His initial NVA award was 1250 units.
A document detailing the terms of the original NVA scheme said units were worth 0.0001% of the equity value of the company.
However, according to the plaintiffs Arborgen in 2004 distributed a different NVA document to staff and represented it as the only one in existence.
This scheme valued units at 0.00001% of equity value – a tenth of the original agreement.
A staff meeting called by chief executive Barbara Wells to discuss the plan in 2004 was described as “contentious”. According to the claim, Ms Wells “shouted angrily several times ‘there never was another plan’,” and said “you should treat this as a gift”.
Staff were induced to sign the allegedly revised plan in subsequent small-group meetings with managers.
Under the scheme, NVA units would be paid out in cash if the LLC became a corporation or upon a “trigger event”.
Arborgen became a Delaware corporation in 2010 and filed documents for an initial public offer and Nasdaq listing.
The claimants then sought a court order that the company should have paid out under the original offer.
The statement of claim asserted that Arborgen’s fair value when it corporatized in June 2010 was $US750m, while a 2008 company document deemed its value in 2002 to be $US100m.
Based on the difference between those two valuations, claimants asserted the NVA units were worth $US650 each – a level that would make Mr Foutz’s award worth $US812,500.

ari
27-12-2015, 07:47 AM
Thanks iceman.....I would assume the plaintiffs still work for Arborgen......certainly not helping company staff relationships. What a fekin mess!

drcjp
10-01-2016, 03:17 PM
Well the result is out: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11571751

and its not pretty..........Moriaty comes in for some harsh criticism by the judge.

I'm glad I got out of this when I did.

ari
10-01-2016, 04:25 PM
Well the result is out: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11571751

and its not pretty..........Moriaty comes in for some harsh criticism by the judge.

I'm glad I got out of this when I did.

Really something for Moriaty to be proud of....time for him to bow out....no, just piss off!!!!!

ari
11-01-2016, 10:39 AM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11572033 much the same as previous article but with mention of this mornings market reaction. I've waited 12 years to get a reasonable return, probably another 12 years to wait while appeals process plays out!

mikeybycrikey
11-01-2016, 11:15 AM
After taking out the value of the Tenon shareholding (59.8% of $175m) from the market cap of Rubicon ($102m), we're left with -$2 million. That's not good sign for the ArborGen investment.

Although, getting to the stage where this court case was lost just appears incompetent. Assuming that management were actually cheating their employees out of their shareholding, what were they thinking? Was there no chance of settling the case at an earlier stage for much less money? And does an appeal have any chance of success, or is it just more money down the drain?

This judgement seems to wipe out the whole value of the company. Hopefully some incompent oaf has at least lost their job over this.

ari
11-01-2016, 11:53 AM
Totally agree mikeybycrikey.....but I think that if they put their hand up after the deed to say sorry we were wrong, accusations were so strong the plaintiffs would still have a case against the company as to how they were treated.

Crac A Jac
14-01-2016, 11:46 AM
Really something for Moriaty to be proud of....time for him to bow out....no, just piss off!!!!!


Share price down again today.
Glad I have never had any shares in this company that has no reason to exist, except to pay it's CEOs; apart from paying them all it does is hold shares in Rubicon and Arborgen; with a major conflict of interest as Moriarty, while probably not wholly to blame for the court case, is involved in Tenon as chairman and has strong connections to Arborgen.
Delaying any settlement could cost even more, and wipe out Arborgen altogether unless it has a massive turnaround in it's fortunes.
I don't think Tenon should be paying dividends, especially while it has debt, and especially not to Rubicon.

beetills
15-01-2016, 12:38 PM
Abandoned ship,taken a hit but willing to take it on chin.Have had shares in 3 companies involved in the farming/forestry industry and all have been disappointing to say the least.Too early to say never again however it's is a likely outcome.

Crac A Jac
15-01-2016, 04:14 PM
After taking out the value of the Tenon shareholding (59.8% of $175m) from the market cap of Rubicon ($102m), we're left with -$2 million. That's not good sign for the ArborGen investment.

Although, getting to the stage where this court case was lost just appears incompetent. Assuming that management were actually cheating their employees out of their shareholding, what were they thinking? Was there no chance of settling the case at an earlier stage for much less money? And does an appeal have any chance of success, or is it just more money down the drain?

This judgement seems to wipe out the whole value of the company. Hopefully some incompent oaf has at least lost their job over this.

Market cap now 94 mill:scared:

GTM 3442
16-01-2016, 04:51 AM
Abandoned ship,taken a hit but willing to take it on chin.Have had shares in 3 companies involved in the farming/forestry industry and all have been disappointing to say the least.Too early to say never again however it's is a likely outcome.

I don't think that forestry, as in growing trees, is suitable for a listed company structure. Farming possibly, but not the farms, rather the infrastructure - abattoirs, cool stores and so on.

Crac A Jac
28-01-2016, 04:30 PM
market cap 80 mill

biker
28-01-2016, 07:05 PM
Rubicon's share of Tenon alone, at 2.60 is worth almost 24c per share. Even if Rubicon ends up paying its full share of the current judgement ( which in my view is unlikely), Arborgen is still worth more than zero and there is the real possibility of a successful appeal or earlier reduced settlement. In any case With Third Avenue Management needing cash and selling down regardless at the moment and pushing the share price down I think 21c is very good value and I'm adding at this price. Thank you TAM.

Crac A Jac
04-02-2016, 02:38 PM
Found this, not a pretty read, but even I can understand it.

Ten current and former workers at Summerville-based biotechnology firm ArborGen Inc. won a $53.5 million judgment against their employer and some of the nation’s top forest products companies after a judge ruled the companies tricked workers into accepting incentive plan changes that depleted most of their wealth.
Judge Edgar Dickson also entered judgments against International Paper, MeadWestvaco — now WestRock — and New Zealand-based Rubicon Inc., as well as some of those forestry companies’ board members, following a trial in Dorchester County that lasted nearly three weeks.
The trial was held in January and Dickson’s final decision was issued last week. Rubicon has said it will “vigorously appeal” the ruling. It is not clear if the other companies plan to appeal the Dec. 22 judgment. A lawyer representing those companies and their board members could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

ArborGen, which develops seedlings that sprout into fast-growing trees for the forestry industry, was formed in February 2000 when the biotech divisions of MeadWestvaco, IP and Rubicon were combined. The workers who filed the lawsuit were employees of IP or MeadWestvaco and later ArborGen.
According to the lawsuit, the employees were led to believe that they were getting potentially lucrative options in their compensation packages allowing them to share in the future growth of ArborGen, which was valued at $100 million shortly after its formation.
As ArborGen began to grow, the lawsuit alleged, the company’s board members decided the compensation package was giving the employees too much money.
“The defendants orchestrated a scheme to switch the option plans given to the employees, diluting the value of the original option plan,” according to a statement from Chip Bruorton, a lawyer with Rosen Hagood who represented the workers.
Bruorton said changes to the incentive plan were “introduced to the employees with false information, misrepresentations and concealment as part of a wrongful scheme to defraud them of their rights in the plan.”
When ArborGen was converted to a C-corporation — that is, a corporation that is taxed separately from its ownership firms — the company’s value was $650 million.
According to the lawsuit, the workers claimed they should have been given incentives based on the $550 million in growth ArborGen experienced since its formation, “but the defendants failed to provide the employees with the value they were entitled to.”
An affidavit by Steve Pomerantz, an investment management expert, showed the 10 employees should have received a combined $11.3 million of equity in the new ArborGen C-corporation. Instead, they were given a combined $414,330 of equity based on the revised plan that was created when ArborGen’s growth took off.
The $53.5 million judgment handed down last week also includes interest and punitive damages.
Dickson, the circuit judge, said in his ruling that the employees “were abused by ArborGen, its founders, its board members and its management. ... In not honoring the contracts, the defendants acted with a lack of honesty and integrity.”
Bruorton said in a statement that he is happy with the outcome.
“The court took a great deal of time and effort to understand the facts of this case and made a decision that is supported by the evidence presented. My clients were wronged, and I’m happy that their rights have been vindicated.”

Leaves me wondering just what Arborgen is worth, if anything.
Also consider after reading that, that Arborgen et al may be penalised even more if they do not settle quickly; I really wonder if they have anything much to settle with...so have to delay(and pick up CEO/Directors' fees along the way)
Would you lend the CEOs NZ80 mill to pay off such a settlement??

drcjp
04-02-2016, 03:04 PM
Found this, not a pretty read, but even I can understand it.

Ten current and former workers at Summerville-based biotechnology firm ArborGen Inc. won a $53.5 million judgment against their employer and some of the nation’s top forest products companies after a judge ruled the companies tricked workers into accepting incentive plan changes that depleted most of their wealth.
Judge Edgar Dickson also entered judgments against International Paper, MeadWestvaco — now WestRock — and New Zealand-based Rubicon Inc., as well as some of those forestry companies’ board members, following a trial in Dorchester County that lasted nearly three weeks.
The trial was held in January and Dickson’s final decision was issued last week. Rubicon has said it will “vigorously appeal” the ruling. It is not clear if the other companies plan to appeal the Dec. 22 judgment. A lawyer representing those companies and their board members could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

ArborGen, which develops seedlings that sprout into fast-growing trees for the forestry industry, was formed in February 2000 when the biotech divisions of MeadWestvaco, IP and Rubicon were combined. The workers who filed the lawsuit were employees of IP or MeadWestvaco and later ArborGen.
According to the lawsuit, the employees were led to believe that they were getting potentially lucrative options in their compensation packages allowing them to share in the future growth of ArborGen, which was valued at $100 million shortly after its formation.
As ArborGen began to grow, the lawsuit alleged, the company’s board members decided the compensation package was giving the employees too much money.
“The defendants orchestrated a scheme to switch the option plans given to the employees, diluting the value of the original option plan,” according to a statement from Chip Bruorton, a lawyer with Rosen Hagood who represented the workers.
Bruorton said changes to the incentive plan were “introduced to the employees with false information, misrepresentations and concealment as part of a wrongful scheme to defraud them of their rights in the plan.”
When ArborGen was converted to a C-corporation — that is, a corporation that is taxed separately from its ownership firms — the company’s value was $650 million.
According to the lawsuit, the workers claimed they should have been given incentives based on the $550 million in growth ArborGen experienced since its formation, “but the defendants failed to provide the employees with the value they were entitled to.”
An affidavit by Steve Pomerantz, an investment management expert, showed the 10 employees should have received a combined $11.3 million of equity in the new ArborGen C-corporation. Instead, they were given a combined $414,330 of equity based on the revised plan that was created when ArborGen’s growth took off.
The $53.5 million judgment handed down last week also includes interest and punitive damages.
Dickson, the circuit judge, said in his ruling that the employees “were abused by ArborGen, its founders, its board members and its management. ... In not honoring the contracts, the defendants acted with a lack of honesty and integrity.”
Bruorton said in a statement that he is happy with the outcome.
“The court took a great deal of time and effort to understand the facts of this case and made a decision that is supported by the evidence presented. My clients were wronged, and I’m happy that their rights have been vindicated.”

Leaves me wondering just what Arborgen is worth, if anything.
Also consider after reading that, that Arborgen et al may be penalised even more if they do not settle quickly; I really wonder if they have anything much to settle with...so have to delay(and pick up CEO/Directors' fees along the way)
Would you lend the CEOs NZ80 mill to pay off such a settlement??

Poor old Hugh Fletcher eh? First this and then his cattle are caught peeing in Lake Taylor in Nth Canterbury. Not a good 2016 so far.

biker
04-02-2016, 03:19 PM
Found this, not a pretty read, but even I can understand it.

Ten current and former workers at Summerville-based biotechnology firm ArborGen Inc. won a $53.5 million judgment against their employer and some of the nation’s top forest products companies after a judge ruled the companies tricked workers into accepting incentive plan changes that depleted most of their wealth.
Judge Edgar Dickson also entered judgments against International Paper, MeadWestvaco — now WestRock — and New Zealand-based Rubicon Inc., as well as some of those forestry companies’ board members, following a trial in Dorchester County that lasted nearly three weeks.
The trial was held in January and Dickson’s final decision was issued last week. Rubicon has said it will “vigorously appeal” the ruling. It is not clear if the other companies plan to appeal the Dec. 22 judgment. A lawyer representing those companies and their board members could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

ArborGen, which develops seedlings that sprout into fast-growing trees for the forestry industry, was formed in February 2000 when the biotech divisions of MeadWestvaco, IP and Rubicon were combined. The workers who filed the lawsuit were employees of IP or MeadWestvaco and later ArborGen.
According to the lawsuit, the employees were led to believe that they were getting potentially lucrative options in their compensation packages allowing them to share in the future growth of ArborGen, which was valued at $100 million shortly after its formation.
As ArborGen began to grow, the lawsuit alleged, the company’s board members decided the compensation package was giving the employees too much money.
“The defendants orchestrated a scheme to switch the option plans given to the employees, diluting the value of the original option plan,” according to a statement from Chip Bruorton, a lawyer with Rosen Hagood who represented the workers.
Bruorton said changes to the incentive plan were “introduced to the employees with false information, misrepresentations and concealment as part of a wrongful scheme to defraud them of their rights in the plan.”
When ArborGen was converted to a C-corporation — that is, a corporation that is taxed separately from its ownership firms — the company’s value was $650 million.
According to the lawsuit, the workers claimed they should have been given incentives based on the $550 million in growth ArborGen experienced since its formation, “but the defendants failed to provide the employees with the value they were entitled to.”
An affidavit by Steve Pomerantz, an investment management expert, showed the 10 employees should have received a combined $11.3 million of equity in the new ArborGen C-corporation. Instead, they were given a combined $414,330 of equity based on the revised plan that was created when ArborGen’s growth took off.
The $53.5 million judgment handed down last week also includes interest and punitive damages.
Dickson, the circuit judge, said in his ruling that the employees “were abused by ArborGen, its founders, its board members and its management. ... In not honoring the contracts, the defendants acted with a lack of honesty and integrity.”
Bruorton said in a statement that he is happy with the outcome.
“The court took a great deal of time and effort to understand the facts of this case and made a decision that is supported by the evidence presented. My clients were wronged, and I’m happy that their rights have been vindicated.”

Leaves me wondering just what Arborgen is worth, if anything.
Also consider after reading that, that Arborgen et al may be penalised even more if they do not settle quickly; I really wonder if they have anything much to settle with...so have to delay(and pick up CEO/Directors' fees along the way)
Would you lend the CEOs NZ80 mill to pay off such a settlement??

This is now really quite an old story. It also only reflects the view of the plaintiffs and contains no balancing view from the defendants. There is a little bit more to this story than meets the eye and my view is it will play out before too long and may be alongside the result of the Tenon strategic review which I guess is not that far away.
Also the amount of the judgement is extreme and under appeal could be severely reduced.
I'm sure all parties involved are aware of this.

ari
24-03-2016, 10:58 AM
24March 2016 - Rubicon announced today that the South Carolina Court presiding over the
ArborGen employee litigation has granted the defendants' (i.e. ArborGen, International
Paper, MeadWestvaco, Rubicon, and their current and former representatives) motion to
alter / amend the judgment in this matter. The Court has dismissed the litigation, and
vacated in its entirety its prior US$53 million order in favour of the plaintiffs (i.e. it is null and
void, and of no effect), and the parties to the litigation have agreed a confidential settlement
arrangement, which brings this matter to a final conclusion. The net financial cost to Rubicon
of that settlement is immaterial, and as far as Rubicon and its investment in ArborGen are
concerned, there is no further financial impact from this lawsuit.
As the settlement terms are confidential to all parties, there will be no further comment on
the matter.

ari
24-03-2016, 12:05 PM
Finally heading in the right direction.....31.8% lift is impressive.

biker
24-03-2016, 02:02 PM
This is now really quite an old story. It also only reflects the view of the plaintiffs and contains no balancing view from the defendants. There is a little bit more to this story than meets the eye and my view is it will play out before too long and may be alongside the result of the Tenon strategic review which I guess is not that far away.
Also the amount of the judgement is extreme and under appeal could be severely reduced.
I'm sure all parties involved are aware of this.

Default
24March 2016 - Rubicon announced today that the South Carolina Court presiding over the
ArborGen employee litigation has granted the defendants' (i.e. ArborGen, International
Paper, MeadWestvaco, Rubicon, and their current and former representatives) motion to
alter / amend the judgment in this matter. The Court has dismissed the litigation, and
vacated in its entirety its prior US$53 million order in favour of the plaintiffs (i.e. it is null and
void, and of no effect), and the parties to the litigation have agreed a confidential settlement
arrangement, which brings this matter to a final conclusion. The net financial cost to Rubicon
of that settlement is immaterial, and as far as Rubicon and its investment in ArborGen are
concerned, there is no further financial impact from this lawsuit.
As the settlement terms are confidential to all parties, there will be no further comment on
the matter.



What an absolutely stunning result!!
Tenon strategic review results not far away and a review of Arborgen capital requirements v shareholder return in progress IMO means that finally, as Julius Caesar uttered the famous phrase "alea iacta est"—the die is cast—as his army marched and crossed the Rubicon.
The next few months may well be, and finally, defining ones for RBC.
At 28c IMO RBC is still hugely under valued but I'm holding a few so I'm biased.

ari
24-03-2016, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE

What an absolutely stunning result!!
Tenon strategic review results not far away and a review of Arborgen capital requirements v shareholder return in progress IMO means that finally, as Julius Caesar uttered the famous phrase "alea iacta est"—the die is cast—as his army marched and crossed the Rubicon.
The next few months may well be, and finally, defining ones for RBC.
At 28c IMO RBC is still hugely under valued but I'm holding a few so I'm biased.[/QUOTE]

It's been along wait Biker......I have a hefty holding so am pleased, but kicking myself at the same time as I attempted to buy 50,000 earlier in the week @ 21c....too stubborn to move the goalposts.....

biker
24-03-2016, 03:57 PM
[QUOTE

What an absolutely stunning result!!
Tenon strategic review results not far away and a review of Arborgen capital requirements v shareholder return in progress IMO means that finally, as Julius Caesar uttered the famous phrase "alea iacta est"—the die is cast—as his army marched and crossed the Rubicon.
The next few months may well be, and finally, defining ones for RBC.
At 28c IMO RBC is still hugely under valued but I'm holding a few so I'm biased.

It's been along wait Biker......I have a hefty holding so am pleased, but kicking myself at the same time as I attempted to buy 50,000 earlier in the week @ 21c....too stubborn to move the goalposts.....[/QUOTE]

Sure has Ari.
I'm wondering if Rubicon will even exist by the end of the year.

ari
24-03-2016, 05:04 PM
You may be right biker...anything above Edison's conservative value of 64c in April 2015 would clear my cost of 55c, but their more bullish value of $1.06 would be nice way to go out!

biker
24-03-2016, 07:56 PM
You may be right biker...anything above Edison's conservative value of 64c in April 2015 would clear my cost of 55c, but their more bullish value of $1.06 would be nice way to go out!

I think the value is there ari it's whether or not it can be extracted and returned to us that remains to be seen. Certainly something beyond your 55c shouldn't be a problem. I need to see 29c to clear but haven't hung in there this long not to see possibly 3 times that.

biker
25-03-2016, 04:06 AM
Tim Hunter from the NBR must have choked while he was writing this after his previous vitriolic article condemning Luke Moriarty et al.

Rubicon settles US lawsuit
TIM HUNTER THURSDAY MARCH 24, 2016 5
SHARE

Investment company Rubicon [NZX: RBC] has settled a lawsuit in the United States, ending a $US53 million claim against the company and several other parties including its chief executive Luke Moriarty.

GTM 3442
25-03-2016, 03:48 PM
At the time that Fletcher Challenge unlocked the potential of each of it's four divisions (Paper, Forests, Energy and Building, for the younger folk) Rubicon was also created.

There was much debate about Rubicon's purpose in life. After all the debate, a satisfactory answer had not emerged.

And me - I'm in it because I am taking a punt on the value of the Arborgen pine technology. A pure, simple punt on a New Zealand technology company. Like BLT, PEB, SCT and the others.

iceman
25-03-2016, 06:17 PM
Absolutely right GTM3442. It is a pure punt being in RBC. As a company it has no meaningful purpose. I took a punt on this last year but dumped it immediately when they announced the lawsuit. I note despite the "big" increase yesterday they have not even reached where they were SP wise before the lawsuit announcement. I still think this one is ripe as a high risk punt though, but an investment it is not.

Crac A Jac
04-04-2016, 08:13 AM
It exists to pay it's CEOs

ari
04-04-2016, 09:16 AM
It exists to pay it's CEOs

...with funds now received from Tenon dividends..

Crac A Jac
04-04-2016, 11:50 AM
Which should be used to pay off Tenon's debt

beetills
04-04-2016, 03:28 PM
Chris Lee's has an interesting summing up of the court case on his website TAKING STOCK.
It pretty much says the the Directors come across poorly and were told so by the judge.

ari
04-04-2016, 06:00 PM
Chris Lee's has an interesting summing up of the court case on his website TAKING STOCK.
It pretty much says the the Directors come across poorly and were told so by the judge.

Old news.....

drcjp
04-04-2016, 06:39 PM
From the Rubicon website:

"The sole purpose of Rubicon is to bring value to these two remaining investments, and Board and management are incentivised accordingly."

The activity leading to the first part is not clear but the actions to achieve the second are abundantly clear.

beetills
16-08-2016, 11:42 AM
Reasonably large volumes today for RBC,very difficult to know how this is going to end.Obviously hoping for the best but who knows.

ari
25-08-2016, 01:04 PM
Found this from April 2009....still dreaming.........http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/RBCindependentadviserreportPDF.pdf

Balance
26-08-2016, 03:03 PM
Reasonably large volumes today for RBC,very difficult to know how this is going to end.Obviously hoping for the best but who knows.

Decent volume - 1.75m shares so someone is obviously positioning for a positive announcement.

ari
26-08-2016, 03:14 PM
Decent volume - 1.75m shares so someone is obviously positioning for a positive announcement.

One can only hope. Wonder how those valuations from above 2009 report relate to todays position?

ari
27-08-2016, 07:40 AM
a conservative case valuation of NZ$0.64 per share – Tenon NZ$0.36 (lower end of range),
plus ArborGen existing NZ$0.33, (ie base value net of current debt) and including Rubicon net
debt of NZ$0.05 per share.
 a more bullish case valuation of NZ$1.06 per share – Tenon NZ$0.47, plus ArborGen total
NZ$0.64 (net of current debt), again including an NZ$0.05 per share adjustment for Rubicon
net debt. Ex Edison

beetills
29-08-2016, 02:31 PM
Good volumes again today.Wondering if wise men are buying or wiser men selling.

ari
29-08-2016, 03:47 PM
Good volumes again today.Wondering if wise men are buying or wiser men selling.
Last update says.......an announcement in respect of the outcome of its Strategic
Review process either in conjunction with, or prior to, the release of the
Company's 30 June 2016 financial results..........watching very closely, this will definately be make or break.....

Sgt Pepper
31-08-2016, 10:15 AM
Last update says.......an announcement in respect of the outcome of its Strategic
Review process either in conjunction with, or prior to, the release of the
Company's 30 June 2016 financial results..........watching very closely, this will definately be make or break.....

I cant understand the muted sharemarket response to Rubicon. The 2009 Grant Samuel analysis, at a time of depression type new housing activity in the USA valued Rubicon at a range of $1.09 to $2.26 assuming they consent to the sale of Tenon. Now that valuation was 7 years ago. I would have thought a 24c share would potentially skyrocket in this scenario. Is it a case of under the radar??

Balance
31-08-2016, 11:01 AM
I cant understand the muted sharemarket response to Rubicon. The 2009 Grant Samuel analysis, at a time of depression type new housing activity in the USA valued Rubicon at a range of $1.09 to $2.26 assuming they consent to the sale of Tenon. Now that valuation was 7 years ago. I would have thought a 24c share would potentially skyrocket in this scenario. Is it a case of under the radar??

That was then, and this is now :

Tenon is valued at between $3.01 to $3.25 - so total valuation of $195m to $211m.

RBC owns 59% of Tenon so RBC's share will be $115m to $124m or 28c to 30c per share.

With RBC shares being offered at 26c on market, market clearly is placing zero value or even negative value on AborGen - which could be the hidden gem when it finally gets sold or floated?

beetills
31-08-2016, 11:58 AM
If TENON only sell the USA part of their operation will Tenon stay listed and at what price?

ari
01-09-2016, 06:25 PM
Can't do any harm to Rubicon.........Scion are in partnership with Arbogen....http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11702838

Sgt Pepper
19-09-2016, 11:46 AM
Can't do any harm to Rubicon.........Scion are in partnership with Arbogen....http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11702838

Why aren't Rubicon shares attracting more interest considering the presumed sale of Tenon and Arbogen?
Any observations?

beetills
19-09-2016, 12:20 PM
I fear the answer may remain one of lifes mysteries at least until the AGM.

beetills
20-09-2016, 12:52 PM
Good news in the U S today,new home builders have a surge in confidence.Should be good news for TENON and by default RUBICON.

ari
20-09-2016, 01:33 PM
Let's hope it can hold for another 2 mths or longer if sale does not eventuate. Went past Tenon plant in Taupo at the weekend, that's a very large plant.......
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-23/u-s-new-home-sales-unexpectedly-surge-to-almost-nine-year-high

ari
27-09-2016, 06:02 PM
I'm sure there is more to go in share price, but interest is limited, accept for the buyer/buyer's who have been buying at 23.5 for some time.....https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/242560.pdf

ari
30-09-2016, 11:59 AM
Down to 20c........can't remember when it has ever been this low

Sgt Pepper
30-09-2016, 12:36 PM
Down to 20c........can't remember when it has ever been this low

I am at a loss to understand the current Rubicon SP. The signaled " substantial capital return" to Tenon shareholders should the offer from Bluewolf be accepted will of course benefit Rubicon shareholders.

beetills
30-09-2016, 02:24 PM
In their annual review i recieved today they say that the return of capital will be more than sufficient to repay all Rubicons bank debt and subordinated notes should they wish to.They also say that it will meet Rubicons future Arbor Gen funding.
Maybe Rubicon shareholders were expecting more.

ari
30-09-2016, 03:21 PM
In their annual review i recieved today they say that the return of capital will be more than sufficient to repay all Rubicons bank debt and subordinated notes should they wish to.They also say that it will meet Rubicons future Arbor Gen funding.
Maybe Rubicon shareholders were expecting more.

What value do they put on ArborGen?

beetills
30-09-2016, 03:47 PM
Not very clued up on reports and honestly i cannot see anything regarding the value of AborGen although it could be looking me in the face and i wouldn't see it,

ari
30-09-2016, 04:30 PM
Found this old Edison report (April 2015).....oh, how things have changed..http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/report/rubicon5

beetills
14-10-2016, 09:19 AM
Is this capital return of Tenon's good news for RBC.A bit of movement in the SP this morning and activity this week would suggest it is,lthough i have been wrong many times before.

ari
14-10-2016, 09:26 AM
Is this capital return of Tenon's good news for RBC.A bit of movement in the SP this morning and activity this week would suggest it is,lthough i have been wrong many times before.

It's got to be good for RBC along with dividend from Tenon....now what are they going to do with it?

beetills
14-10-2016, 09:49 AM
That is the question for sure.
I was thinking of buying a few more but at this stage i'm sitting on the fence and with my luck which ever way i choose it will be wrong.
If it wasn't for bad luck,id have no luck at all.

ari
15-10-2016, 06:21 AM
I was just reading Brian Gaynors article on Rubicon from a few years ago yesterday and now an update.....http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11729059

beetills
15-10-2016, 07:57 AM
What are the chances of Rubicons main men reading this and saying'''he's right'''.
Iwould suggest none but am willing t be shocked.

ari
15-10-2016, 09:50 AM
What are the chances of Rubicons main men reading this and saying'''he's right'''.
Iwould suggest none but am willing t be shocked.

They may, but certainly not taken any notice since earlier article by Brian Gaynor, Mar 2012..http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10794164

ari
15-10-2016, 10:28 AM
Perhaps with funds rolling into Rubicon, conditions may be right for Arborgen float.....

beetills
15-10-2016, 10:55 AM
Float aborgen and then what for the long suffering RBC shareholders.

silverblizzard888
15-10-2016, 04:14 PM
Float aborgen and then what for the long suffering RBC shareholders.

It would be the last step of the puzzle to unlock value for shareholders, long term shareholders will reap the value they want so much. Everyone is being so well paid in management and directorships, I'm not sure they feel to bothered whether they do or they don't.

Lets weigh it up, Tenon is valued at $165 million, RBC own about 60% of the company so that is about $99 million worth to RBC.
Arborgen a few years ago was valued at over $500 million (lets just use that figure), but the share price currently suffers as no one can put a solid figure on how much it is actually worth and not generating positive cashflow doesn't help. Time has passed and the business is has overall done better so could be worth even more. At about 32% ownership of that, thats $160 million of value. Add the two and you have $259 million company, at least twice its value of where it is at right now.
It will re-rate the share value given more certainty with an Arborgen IPO even if there is no plan to sell down and everyone can make a decision and go their way.

Sgt Pepper
31-10-2016, 11:37 AM
At 23cps is Rubicon the buy of the year?? I guess will have to wait until the AGM in mid D ecember to see whether I will get a nice Christmas present in terms of a capital return(or not). Will keep polishing the crystal ball. In the meantime Mr Market seems uninterested

beetills
31-10-2016, 12:12 PM
I tend to agree however i'm sure that the powers that be are looking at ways to give nothing back.

Sgt Pepper
31-10-2016, 12:32 PM
I tend to agree however i'm sure that the powers that be are looking at ways to give nothing back.

If they dont return capital to their very patient shareholders then they will be the Grinches who stole Christmas, well ..almost.

ari
31-10-2016, 12:50 PM
If they dont return capital to their very patient shareholders then they will be the Grinches who stole Christmas, well ..almost.

May have to go to TENON AGM 18th Nov.....least I might get a sammy and cuppa, there appears to be fek all else on offer so far.......it's been a 12 year wait for me!

ari
01-11-2016, 12:44 PM
I honestly thought there may be some inteest in Rubicon now that we are into November....apparently not.....down to 22c!

beetills
01-11-2016, 01:00 PM
Too many questions to be answered methinks.
Is it time to buy up?

Sgt Pepper
01-11-2016, 01:10 PM
Too many questions to be answered methinks.
Is it time to buy up?

I am really not sure. Looked through the Grant Samuel report released with notice of Rubicons AGM notice. I still dont understand what the flow through to we mere mortal who own Rubicon shares.

1. will their be a significant ramp up in the value of my shareholding?

2 will I get my share of any capital return and what will it be?

I still cant distill what, if any impact this will have. In the meantime shareprice goes DOWN!! Any observations anyone?? HELP

Sgt Pepper
13-11-2016, 05:55 PM
Received the Rubion AGM notice and voting form in the mail. With eager anticipation I scanned the agenda, looking for" Special Dividend to shareholders" or " Capital return to shareholders" Yet nothing. Come on Rubicon, no dividends since 2001, and with the sale of Tenon to US interests what ARE you going to do with the millions???

biker
13-11-2016, 06:17 PM
Received the Rubion AGM notice and voting form in the mail. With eager anticipation I scanned the agenda, looking for" Special Dividend to shareholders" or " Capital return to shareholders" Yet nothing. Come on Rubicon, no dividends since 2001, and with the sale of Tenon to US interests what ARE you going to do with the millions???

It will continue to pour them into the bottomless pit that is ArborGen

winner69
13-11-2016, 06:45 PM
It will continue to pour them into the bottomless pit that is ArborGen

Only hope is being able to hock off / IPO Arborgen for zillions ....but I fear its been around for so long that might be difficult

ari
24-11-2016, 01:12 PM
News like this and still Rubicon wanes.......http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-herald-local-focus/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504150&objectid=11753568

beetills
24-11-2016, 03:14 PM
I'm off to plant some trees in my backyard to fuel my car.
I may have to sell my RBC shares to fund it.

ari
24-11-2016, 04:21 PM
I'm off to plant some trees in my backyard to fuel my car.
I may have to sell my RBC shares to fund it.

Too long.......just mowed my lawn and here's a thought.....grass cuttings contained with a bit of water will give off methane after a couple of days. Wifes horses and alpaca's have to go!

beetills
24-11-2016, 04:53 PM
Too long.......just mowed my lawn and here's a thought.....grass cuttings contained with a bit of water will give off methane after a couple of days. Wifes horses and alpaca's have to go!
Tinkering with the idea of buying some land on the East Coast and attempting to plant a lot of trees.
Bearing in mind that i don't want to spend a lot money prior to doing it has anybody got any idea how much per acre it is to plant a forest block and is there such a thing as unsuitable land for tree's.
Just wondering at this stage before the job of convincing her indoors that it's a great idea.

Balance
24-11-2016, 05:07 PM
News like this and still Rubicon wanes.......http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-herald-local-focus/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504150&objectid=11753568

RBC is playing it very coy with the net proceeds from Tenon when asked at Tenon's AGM. In fact, RBC would not even disclose which way it was going to vote, let along what happens next.

Smells like something is brewing in the background but holders (expecting clear directions but getting none) are bailing out in the face of the uncertainty.

biker
24-11-2016, 07:13 PM
Quite a time gap this year between TEN AGM and RBC AGM - Normally back to back. Part of 'something brewing' or are the American directors just enjoying an extended holiday at Shareholder's expense?

Whatever, the market doesn't want anything to do with RBC. Hopefully there is an ending to this sorry saga and long term shareholders -large and small- somehow eventually see something for their incredible patience.

ari
02-12-2016, 09:27 PM
Only 7 days to AGM. Not holding out much hope........probably more of the same for too many years.......'we wish to thank the shareholders for their onging support'........

beetills
03-12-2016, 05:43 PM
Knowing my luck any money they get from TENON will be used to help Aborgen,and Rubicon will be kaput with shares transferred into ARBORGEN.
I really don;t know if this is even possible

ari
03-12-2016, 08:56 PM
Arborgen IPO is still on the table.....there's got to be some value there....

Sgt Pepper
08-12-2016, 12:15 PM
Arborgen IPO is still on the table.....there's got to be some value there....

Rubicon AGM in the morning. Have the board secretly invited Santa Claus ready to hand out Christmas presents to long suffering shareholders? After all,with sale of Tenon Rubicon has got millions in its Christmas Club account me thinks. One more sleep!

biker
08-12-2016, 12:37 PM
Rubicon AGM in the morning.

It's in the afternoon actually - 2.30pm

GTM 3442
08-12-2016, 04:21 PM
Rubicon AGM in the morning. Have the board secretly invited Santa Claus ready to hand out Christmas presents to long suffering shareholders? After all,with sale of Tenon Rubicon has got millions in its Christmas Club account me thinks. One more sleep!

I suspect that there will be some delay, whilst a carefully briefed independent consultant prepares a report on how any cash from Tenon can safely be kept out of the grasping hands of the greedy shareholders, in order to facilitate a recapitalization of Arborgen, pending its eventual commercialization.

silverblizzard888
09-12-2016, 08:55 AM
A very strong possibility that the proceeds from Tenon will be tipped into ArborGen not to be seen again for several years if at all.
Excessive salaries and overheads at Rubicon will continue.
End result - no change.

Yep, current share price has assumed the worse, shareholders have little confidence in management to do the right thing.

ari
09-12-2016, 09:20 AM
A very strong possibility that the proceeds from Tenon will be tipped into ArborGen not to be seen again for several years if at all.
Excessive salaries and overheads at Rubicon will continue.
End result - no change.
Yep, in a nutshell Biker. If there was anything to report, it would have been out by now. Surely Arborgen is making a dollar now.....tick. Surely the market is looking good for IPO.....tick. So what's the fekin holdup?

Sgt Pepper
09-12-2016, 02:42 PM
Yep, in a nutshell Biker. If there was anything to report, it would have been out by now. Surely Arborgen is making a dollar now.....tick. Surely the market is looking good for IPO.....tick. So what's the fekin holdup?

Has anyone attended the AGM?? anything positive for this very frustrated shareholder?

ari
09-12-2016, 02:53 PM
Has anyone attended the AGM?? anything positive for this very frustrated shareholder?

I'm trying to be positive......perhaps they are holding off till market close ?

ari
09-12-2016, 03:22 PM
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/249821.pdf Quickly read, looks like a long haul.....did not see mention of IPO.
Capital return from Tenon is $42m. Is there also some dividend due from Tenon as well?

Balance
10-12-2016, 10:38 AM
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/249821.pdf Quickly read, looks like a long haul.....did not see mention of IPO.
Capital return from Tenon is $42m. Is there also some dividend due from Tenon as well?

Attended the surprisingly well attended longish ASM yesterday.

Lots of very good questions asked about RBC and its future direction, especially pertaining to Aborgen.

Be fair to say that most attendees would probably feel happier about their investment in RBC after the ASM :

1. Post capital repayment from Tenon, RBC will be left with net cash of US$15m, its stake in Aborgen and majority stake still in Tenon with its Clearwood operations.

2. Discussions and negotiations obviously still taking place re sale of Clearwood (my interpretation) and Tenon is working towards a decision in 2 months' time.

3. Tenon would be happy to keep Clearwood as it is a 'good' story - very profitable and has a clear unchallenged competitive advantage and edge in the global timber industry. EBIT of US$8.5m to US$9.0m with no debt. So good dividend streams to be expected if kept.

4. If Clearwood sold, then another capital repayment from Tenon and RBC's cash position would obviously increase as well.

5. RBC will be retaining the US$15m as it still needs to fund Aborgen's short term cashflow deficit and RBC wants cash flexibility to consider strategic options. RBC's share of funding from hereonin is around US$2m a year for Aborgen capital expenditure and R&D.

6. RBC would return cash surpluses back to shareholders when the situation arises.

Re Aborgen :

Most of the Q&A revolved around Aborgen and its valuation :

1. RBC is frustrated by the majority requirement to make any strategic decisions - especially as the two other partners are now multi-billion corporates after M&A activities. Aborgen is not significant to them anymore in the overall scheme of things but for RBC, what is left is effectively going to be Aborgen!

2. Aborgen is tracking towards cash flow breakeven next financial year and surpluses after that. Capital expenditure and R&D spend will be around US$6m a year.

3. Aborgen is a leading global enhanced genetics seedling supplier - it is known to all industry players with 325m seedlings sold and US$37m of revenues, gross margin of US$12m.

4. ArborGen Australasia’s advanced genetics sales is 85% as a percentage of total pine revenue. The high percentage is indicative of where the US market can also get to over time, and it represents the ArborGen opportunity in a ‘nutshell’ when compared with the current 25% level. RBC seems to think/believe it is inevitable given the compelling enhanced yield foresters get from the advanced genetics seedlings (non GE).

5. Some valuation perspective was given - assuming that North America (biggest forestry market in the world) mirrors the genetics progress that Australasia has made for Aborgen, there is a very very very big number in the future for RBC's stake in Aborgen. Makes the 22c sp of RBC look like the outstanding bargain in the market at present.

winner69
10-12-2016, 10:44 AM
Good one Balance - thanks

ari
10-12-2016, 03:10 PM
Thanks for that Balance.......any mention of IPO?

Balance
10-12-2016, 03:31 PM
Thanks for that Balance.......any mention of IPO?

1. RBC is frustrated by the majority requirement to make any strategic decisions - especially as the two other partners are now multi-billion corporates after M&A activities.

It was asked and the reply was kind of cryptic as the above. Think that RBC would like to do an IPO to raise some capital and reflect value back to RBC but the two other partners do not see as priority at this stage - they have plenty of funds to carry Aborgen through to ultimate value. There are pre-emptive rights between the partners so if timing is right, RBC can certainly push the issue.

ari
10-12-2016, 03:44 PM
1. RBC is frustrated by the majority requirement to make any strategic decisions - especially as the two other partners are now multi-billion corporates after M&A activities.

It was asked and the reply was kind of cryptic as the above. Think that RBC would like to do an IPO to raise some capital and reflect value back to RBC but the two other partners do not see as priority at this stage - they have plenty of funds to carry Aborgen through to ultimate value. There are pre-emptive rights between the partners so if timing is right, RBC can certainly push the issue.

Seems quite strange that RBC have been quite vocal re IPO since before last failed attempt, as if they were pulling all the strings....but now not so. Or maybe I was reading it wrong all the time.

Balance
10-12-2016, 04:48 PM
Seems quite strange that RBC have been quite vocal re IPO since before last failed attempt, as if they were pulling all the strings....but now not so. Or maybe I was reading it wrong all the time.

If Clearwood is sold and assuming it is sold for fair value (Let me venture US$70m), RBC will receive another US$42m which could very well be used to buy out one of the partners. This could accelerate any corporate activity like an IPO.

Balance
12-12-2016, 02:29 PM
NBR has headline on RBC meeting - Rubicon holds on to Tenon cash with the byline : "Annual meeting excludes NBR after CEO seeks to suppress reporting of certain comments".

So with yours truly reporting, you are now more aware of what was said at the meeting.

biker
12-12-2016, 03:59 PM
NBR has headline on RBC meeting - Rubicon holds on to Tenon cash with the byline : "Annual meeting excludes NBR after CEO seeks to suppress reporting of certain comments".
........

Written by Tim Hunter who wrote a scathing article on the ArborGen court case and vilified Luke Moriarty because of it, then remained very silent when the case was effectively dismissed.
He's an Arse IMO and I'm glad the meeting booted out the media.
I don't know why Moriarty didn't ask them to leave when he first asked if there were any media present. He said he was fearful of negative reporting if he did, but he has only ever had negative reporting from the NBR so why worry?

ari
22-12-2016, 03:30 PM
Tenon has good lift, but no spin off for Rubicon, even with $42m+ due

Sgt Pepper
22-12-2016, 08:30 PM
Tenon has good lift, but no spin off for Rubicon, even with $42m+ due
Yes curiouser and curiouser. Either the market is asleep with Rubicon and at 22cps is the best value on the sharemarket or ???

beetills
23-12-2016, 08:20 AM
I presume that the Top Dogs in TEN and RBC aren't to worried about the share price not going up as they have foot in both doors.They win whatever.

Balance
23-12-2016, 08:45 AM
I presume that the Top Dogs in TEN and RBC aren't to worried about the share price not going up as they have foot in both doors.They win whatever.

Having attended the ASM presentation and their thoughts on Aborgen, I think they have very very high expectations of the value of Aborgen when its value is realised.

Question is when for them, not if.

biker
23-12-2016, 09:18 AM
Latest Tenon announcement about purchase of assets and company wind up can only be good for RBC shareholders. If the focus then is completely on ArborGen, the RBC share price should finally get some traction.

Balance
23-12-2016, 09:30 AM
If Clearwood is sold and assuming it is sold for fair value (Let me venture US$70m), RBC will receive another US$42m which could very well be used to buy out one of the partners. This could accelerate any corporate activity like an IPO.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/TEN/announcements/294889

Well, looks like sale could be on its*way.

ari
23-12-2016, 09:50 AM
Latest Tenon announcement about purchase of assets and company wind up can only be good for RBC shareholders. If the focus then is completely on ArborGen, the RBC share price should finally get some traction.

Now we see the buyers! Let's hope it's not a distant dream for Arborgen......

biker
25-12-2016, 05:44 AM
Now we see the buyers! Let's hope it's not a distant dream for Arborgen......

Indeed ari. It's been a long road. Just bought more at 22c.

Disc - at the moment hold far too many. Hopefully sometime within the next year or two, don't hold enough.

ari
26-12-2016, 11:40 AM
Indeed ari. It's been a long road. Just bought more at 22c.

Disc - at the moment hold far too many. Hopefully sometime within the next year or two, don't hold enough.

Exactly biker.....I've had to trade down since 2010 (held since 2004) just to stay in the game. Was tempted to dip toe again at 21c but will now hold (200,787) and wait....still require 44c to break even!!!

biker
04-01-2017, 12:32 PM
Have I just bought the last RBC shares ever to be sold as low as 22.5c ?

Disclosure 1. Wishful thinking.
Disclosure 2. A RBC shareholder with LOTS of patience.
Disclosure 3. Waiting for the second coming (of RBC)
Disclosure 4. Believing the pending sale of TEN will be the spark
to set RBC alight

Balance
05-01-2017, 11:43 AM
Have I just bought the last RBC shares ever to be sold as low as 22.5c ?

Disclosure 1. Wishful thinking.
Disclosure 2. A RBC shareholder with LOTS of patience.
Disclosure 3. Waiting for the second coming (of RBC)
Disclosure 4. Believing the pending sale of TEN will be the spark
to set RBC alight

RBC could prove to be the sleeper stock of 2017.

Work through the numbers on TEN and assuming the low valuation as realisable value of Clearwood, it means that cash (after capital return from TEN) will be $70m.

Current market cap implies a value of $25m for Aborgen.

If half of what RBC now says about the potential of Aborgen is true, $25m is an absolute bargain.

How much credibility does one place on what management says? I took management at their word on Tenon a few years ago when their words were mud and am very very satisfied with the result.

Xerof
05-01-2017, 07:46 PM
JPM have filed 2 SSH notices, July and October, but the October one appears to be a duplicate of the July filing (off NZX platform) Does anyone know what the October filing was meant to say - fairly lax reporting IMO

silverblizzard888
05-01-2017, 09:45 PM
JPM have filed 2 SSH notices, July and October, but the October one appears to be a duplicate of the July filing (off NZX platform) Does anyone know what the October filing was meant to say - fairly lax reporting IMO

If you check the cover letter doc that is also attached it explains why they have had to make a second disclosure for the same event. JP Morgan Clearing Corp merged with JP Morgan Securities and hence they needed to clarify the situation for all past references made.

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/245088.pdf

Balance
06-01-2017, 07:46 AM
If you check the cover letter doc that is also attached it explains why they have had to make a second disclosure for the same event. JP Morgan Clearing Corp merged with JP Morgan Securities and hence they needed to clarify the situation for all past references made.

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/245088.pdf

Mention was made at the RBC ASM that one major shareholder was (is) selling off its sizeable stake for its own reason - not something directors or RBC can control. Directors also believed that that is the main reason why the sp has been flat lining when the observation was made that Tenon has tripled in price from a few years ago while RBC has gone backwards.

So if the that shareholder stopped selling or finished selling - could see the sp bounce nicely.

So Biker may indeed has bought the last of the 22.5c indeed!

Xerof
06-01-2017, 09:25 AM
If you check the cover letter doc that is also attached it explains why they have had to make a second disclosure for the same event. JP Morgan Clearing Corp merged with JP Morgan Securities and hence they needed to clarify the situation for all past references made.

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/245088.pdf

Thanks SB888, I hadn't connected the two.

Xerof
06-01-2017, 09:29 AM
So if that shareholder stopped selling or finished selling - could see the sp bounce nicely.

That's usually the million dollar question.......

watching