ATM - A2 Milk Corporation Limited

[minimoke]

Turners have been all over the country telling their story in a pretty convincing way but their narrative which has been clearly and thoroughly articulated has done nothing to help their share price !
ATM had very, very little to say about the outlook for FY19 and yet their SP has had one of the strongest months of any stock on the NZX in August.
SUM had a fair bit to say about a positive looking second half coming but their narrative didn't help them.
RYM have been as quiet as a church mouse this month but SP up nearly 16%Its a bloody fickle market!

[Beagle]

Its a bloody fickle market! Agreed so a prudent investor hedges his bets :)

[winner69]

Beagle — are you trying to anticipate what the average opinion expects the average opinion to be?

It’s interesting there is a tendency of punters to flock to certain stocks, whilst neglecting most others. Does this raises questions for the economic theory of rational investor choice?


It could be that “herding” behaviour within the framework of rational choice is in play. Punters maybe are trying to identify when it is optimal to follow the behaviour of others without regard to their own information.

Some narratives are more appealing than others eh

[BlackPeter]

Just curious - why would you think there would be a framework of rational choice shaping our markets? I guess if this is anything to do with the theory of a rational and efficient market - this has been thrown on the scrapheap of history some time ago. There are some good books about behavioral economy around (written e.g. by R. Thaler / Danny Kahneman). If you don't know where to start - try "Misbehaving" written by Richard Thaler.

Markets are a level 2 chaotic system - and yes, herd behavior is for social animals like us humans a very strong motivator (right or wrong). In terms of understanding whats happening - you are normally able to explain what brought a herd to stampede ... but it is often quite hard to explain why they did run into a particular direction. Might be something like that butterfly in Beijing causing a tornado at the US West coast.

Same with markets - don't try to understand them, exploit them!

[ratkin]

Turners have been all over the country telling their story in a pretty convincing way but their narrative which has been clearly and thoroughly articulated has done nothing to help their share price !
ATM had very, very little to say about the outlook for FY19 and yet their SP has had one of the strongest months of any stock on the NZX in August.
SUM had a fair bit to say about a positive looking second half coming but their narrative didn't help them.
RYM have been as quiet as a church mouse this month but SP up nearly 16%

Empty Vessels make the most noise

[winner69]

Just curious - why would you think there would be a framework of rational choice shaping our markets? I guess if this is anything to do with the theory of a rational and efficient market - this has been thrown on the scrapheap of history some time ago. There are some good books about behavioral economy around (written e.g. by R. Thaler / Danny Kahneman). If you don't know where to start - try "Misbehaving" written by Richard Thaler.

Markets are a level 2 chaotic system - and yes, herd behavior is for social animals like us humans a very strong motivator (right or wrong). In terms of understanding whats happening - you are normally able to explain what brought a herd to stampede ... but it is often quite hard to explain why they did run into a particular direction. Might be something like that butterfly in Beijing causing a tornado at the US West coast.

Same with markets - don't try to understand them, exploit them!

Read Thaler’s Nudge ....quite a good read

Maybe a stock is not necessarily popular on account of their inherent value but they become more popular simply because they are already popular

I have a friend whose at LSE in Behavioural Economics - occasionally asks me to guide him to threads on Sharetrader that could provide his students with raw material to help them with their papers

[Beagle]

Read Thaler’s Nudge ....quite a good read

Maybe a stock is not necessarily popular on account of their inherent value but they become more popular simply because they are already popular

I have a friend whose at LSE in Behavioural Economics - occasionally asks me to guide him to threads on Sharetrader that could provide his students with raw material to help them with their papers


Momentum a powerful force. No wonder you have very smart people like KW that are primarily TA and momentum investors.

[winner69]

Momentum a powerful force. No wonder you have very smart people like KW that are primarily TA and momentum investors.

......so fundamentals per se like relative PEs don’t really count for much most of the time

[percy]

Momentum a powerful force. No wonder you have very smart people like KW that are primarily TA and momentum investors.

There are a huge number of "systems" or "styles" or "approaches" to investing.FA,TA,Momentum,the stars,contrarian etc.
Flitting from one to another,than another, is a sure way to confusion, and failure.
I have known very successful investors who only invest in booze shares,while others who only invest in property shares.
Once you have worked out what works for you, it pays to stick with it.

[winner69]

There are a huge number of "systems" or "styles" or "approaches" to investing.FA,TA,Momentum,the stars,contrarian etc.
Fitting from one to another,than another is a sure way to failure.
I have known very successful investors who only invest in booze shares,while others who only invest in property shares.
Once you have worked out what works for you it pays to stick with it.

So true percy but i’ll add, if I may, that one needs to recognise when the ‘system that works’ may one day fail and they need to review what they day

[percy]

So true percy but i’ll add, if I may, that one needs to recognise when the ‘system that works’ may one day fail and they need to review what they day

Exactly.
I have found "systems that work" based on,Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett,Peter Lynch, and Jim Slater have stood the test of time.
None broke yet.1952 to 2018.
2019 different.?

[couta1]

Exactly.
I have found "systems that work" based on,Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett,Peter Lynch, and Jim Slater have stood the test of time.
None broke yet.1952 to 2018.
2019 different.? The Couta Outrageous holding model has always worked very well for me and when ive shortchanged it by selling too early or tried to diversify too much I've been Outrageously shortchanged.

[percy]

The Couta Outrageous holding model has always worked very well for me and when ive shortchanged it by selling too early or tried to diversify too much I've been Outrageously shortchanged.

You are following Buffett's model.
He is prepared to buy 100% of a company.
You just need to refine your model a little bit,ie.. never sell.....

[couta1]

You are following Buffett's model.
He is prepared to buy 100% of a company.
You just need to refine your model a little bit,ie.. never sell..... I'm in good company then, I read about his Asymmetrical holdings although I've never read any books by him or any of the above mentioned names, I just followed my own style from the start. PS-Have been starting to refine the model over the last year but that has been influenced by this guy named Percy on some random NZ forum rather than Buffet.

[percy]

I'm in good company then, I read about his Asymmetrical holdings although I've never read any books by him or any of the above mentioned names, I just followed my own style from the start. PS-Have been starting to refine the model over the last year but that has been influenced by this guy named Percy on some random NZ forum rather than Buffet.

Take care,I am looking to avoid reading his posts and putting him on my ignore list,after he turned turtle, and brought MVN, after slagging them for years.!

PS.Get your wife to read you a chapter of either Warren Buffett or Peter Lynch's books, in bed, before you go to sleep at night.
Guarantees sweet dreams, and a good nights sleep.

[Beagle]

There are a huge number of "systems" or "styles" or "approaches" to investing.FA,TA,Momentum,the stars,contrarian etc.
Flitting from one to another,than another, is a sure way to confusion, and failure.
I have known very successful investors who only invest in booze shares,while others who only invest in property shares.
Once you have worked out what works for you, it pays to stick with it.

I couldn't agree more. Any bean counter worth is salt must have a high propensity to be an investor based on the fundamental's and I'm no exception. That said there is a lot of irrational behavior in the market so I like it best when FA and TA are in sync like they presently are with great stocks like SUM, SML and now ATM. I feel quite uncomfortable when TA and FA are badly out of sync like they currently are with TRA which explains why I halved my position at $3.16 before the recent decline. I will stick with the way I do things now..it works for me and besides that its hard to teach an old dog new tricks lol

[winner69]

Just curious - why would you think there would be a framework of rational choice shaping our markets? I guess if this is anything to do with the theory of a rational and efficient market - this has been thrown on the scrapheap of history some time ago. There are some good books about behavioral economy around (written e.g. by R. Thaler / Danny Kahneman). If you don't know where to start - try "Misbehaving" written by Richard Thaler.

Markets are a level 2 chaotic system - and yes, herd behavior is for social animals like us humans a very strong motivator (right or wrong). In terms of understanding whats happening - you are normally able to explain what brought a herd to stampede ... but it is often quite hard to explain why they did run into a particular direction. Might be something like that butterfly in Beijing causing a tornado at the US West coast.

Same with markets - don't try to understand them, exploit them!

Rationale irrationality is an interesting subject

Often discussed in politics but applies to ‘investing’ as well

[percy]

I couldn't agree more. Any bean counter worth is salt must have a high propensity to be an investor based on the fundamental's and I'm no exception. That said there is a lot of irrational behavior in the market so I like it best when FA and TA are in sync like they presently are with great stocks like SUM, SML and now ATM. I feel quite uncomfortable when TA and FA are badly out of sync like they currently are with TRA which explains why I halved my position at $3.16 before the recent decline. I will stick with the way I do things now..it works for me and besides that its hard to teach an old dog new tricks lol

TRA I have increased my holding since their result in May and their presentations.It has worked for me adding to my "high conviction" shares on any share price weakness.
All started in about 1990 when Smiths City went into receivership.The last day of them being listed, was the day I started buying.
I visited their shops and became an expert on their business.The business was still very well supported by their loyal customers.
I checked the share registry was still operating.Their finance company was still being funded by FPF.Then I approached local sharebrokers to buy SCY shares.They were keen to have a buyer,so they could clean up deceased estates.I found the then Chairman,Bill Revell was happy to speak to me and answer my questions.Over the next 4 or 5 years while they were delisted I built up a substantial holding.
So I do my research and back myself.
Did it with HBL,and have also being doing it over the past 6 years with a company on the NZ USX .
Seems to work just fine.


disc.Was a top 20 SCY shareholder,and currently in a USX company's top 20,but have never made to either TRA's or HBL's top 20.[so far lol].

[Beagle]

Happy its worked for you Percy. You're also too old to learn new tricks :) I need to refine my strategy, (take a leaf from your book) and become a more patient investor. If TA and FA stay in line keep holding until they don't. I think that's going to be a strategy that will do my portfolio in shares like ATM, SUM and SML wonders over the long run.

[percy]

Happy its worked for you Percy. You're also too old to learn new tricks :) I need to refine my strategy, (take a leaf from your book) and become a more patient investor. If TA and FA stay in line keep holding until they don't. I think that's going to be a strategy that will do my portfolio in shares like ATM, SUM and SML wonders over the long run.

Just think if you had the cash to buy the whole company would you.?
If not, why buy any shares in it.

[RupertBear]

TRA I have increased my holding since their result in May and their presentations.It has worked for me adding to my "high conviction" shares on any share price weakness.
All started in about 1990 when Smiths City went into receivership.The last day of them being listed, was the day I started buying.
I visited their shops and became an expert on their business.The business was still very well supported by their loyal customers.
I checked the share registry was still operating.Their finance company was still being funded by FPF.Then I approached local sharebrokers to buy SCY shares.They were keen to have a buyer,so they could clean up deceased estates.I found the then Chairman,Bill Revell was happy to speak to me and answer my questions.Over the next 4 or 5 years while they were delisted I built up a substantial holding.
So I do my research and back myself.
Did it with HBL,and have also being doing it over the past 6 years with a company on the NZ USX .
Seems to work just fine.


disc.Was a top 20 SCY shareholder,and currently in a USX company's top 20,but have never made to either TRA's or HBL's top 20.[so far lol].

Love your posts Percy. I have the greatest respect for what you have acheived with hard work and solid research. You're a wee legend. Thanks for sharing :)

[moka]

What does L3 mean on Stockness Monster?
Trade went through at 9.07am for $258K.
Was also a trade for SML for $311K at the same time.

Trade No. Time Price Volume Value Conditions
1 1 9:07:08 am 1262 20,500 $258,710 L3

[Muppett]

Is $10.50 far off:scared:

[Beagle]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/a67c23fd/a2-welcomes-china-s-new-ecommerce-laws-awaits-further-guidance.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=A2%20welcomes%20Chinas%20new%20ecomme rce%20laws%20awaits%20further%20guidance&utm_content=A2%20welcomes%20Chinas%20new%20ecommer ce%20laws%20awaits%20further%20guidance+CID_79aa21 db0a09d6886f5615c01bf5b70b&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticlea67c23fda2-welcomes-china-s-new-ecommerce-laws-awaits-further-guidancehtml

CEO Ms Hrdlicka welcomes changes that protect intellectual property rights.

[bull....]

be interesting in time how the new china laws affect the daigou trade flows

[Southern_Belle]

Not A2M I know but does anyone else have Keytone Dairy KTD (ASX) on their radar? Up 33% yesterday.

[Sinvester]

Not A2M I know but does anyone else have Keytone Dairy KTD (ASX) on their radar? Up 33% yesterday.

Yes I own a small parcel and have no idea why its going up on huge volumes as well.

[Chanchay]

Not A2M I know but does anyone else have Keytone Dairy KTD (ASX) on their radar? Up 33% yesterday.

Hi Belle, there are a few of us who hold ktd, there is a rather inactive thread over on the asx forum. No one knows what's happening with the price and volume

[Beagle]

be interesting in time how the new china laws affect the daigou trade flows

Market seemed worried about that briefly and then it would appear that the protection these new IP laws give has given the market some comfort. As everyone knows China has a massive problem with counterfeit products so its good to see them putting some more regulatory protection and framework around that trying to work towards improving that situation.

[Scooter]

A2 launches into Costco Southeast USA

[sb9]

A2 launches into Costco Southeast USA

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/09/04/a2-milk-company-ceo-on-dairy-disruption.html

A2 Milk Company CEO on dairy disruption

[silu]

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/09/04/a2-milk-company-ceo-on-dairy-disruption.html

A2 Milk Company CEO on dairy disruption

I'm very impressed with the way Jayne handles media interviews.

[Beagle]

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/09/04/a2-milk-company-ceo-on-dairy-disruption.html

A2 Milk Company CEO on dairy disruption

Fantastic, world's premier business channel...you can't buy publicity like that ! Jayne comes across very well with fresh energy and enthusiasm.

[winner69]

Fantastic, world's premier business channel...you can't buy publicity like that ! Jayne comes across very well with fresh energy and enthusiasm.

As I said once before there’s an unsung hero on A2 staff somewhere whose been doing a great job in ‘promoting’ A2 company in the global media ....whoever it is obviously knows the ins and outs of the game.

These things don’t just happen

[Muppett]

Fantastic, world's premier business channel...you can't buy publicity like that ! Jayne comes across very well with fresh energy and enthusiasm.

She did come across good.
But why is SML $13.40 and ATM $12.73 at 12.55pm today?

[minimoke]

She did come across good.
But why is SML $13.40 and ATM $12.73 at 12.55pm today?They are two different companies. But each is subjected to the daily games people play. Rule #1 applies - Just stay seated and buckled in.

[limmy]

$12.62 now and dropping ?

[minimoke]

$12.62 now and dropping ?Dont sweat i. SML up to $13.44 in this adventure amusement park full of swings and roundabouts and roller coasters

[Beagle]

As I said once before there’s an unsung hero on A2 staff somewhere whose been doing a great job in ‘promoting’ A2 company in the global media ....whoever it is obviously knows the ins and outs of the game.

These things don’t just happen

Nice observation mate.

[peat]

I saw the product on some cooking TV programme. - i dont watch a huge amount of broadcast tv so this may not be uncommon. but yeh I definitely commend their marketeer.

[minimoke]

I saw the product on some cooking TV programme. - i dont watch a huge amount of broadcast tv so this may not be uncommon. but yeh I definitely commend their marketeer.Masterchef Australia - I still haven't learnt how to do a decent soft boiled egg!

[Jay]

Know what you mean MM - my poached eggs look more like an octopus than an egg

[winner69]

Do we have another index rebalancing coming up this month?

[Beagle]

NZX50 rebalance 21 Sept.

[Timesurfer]

Interesting take on the rural sector and where A2 may fit in it.
https://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/95685/allan-barber-notes-new-zealand-agriculture-has-reached-peak-production-volume-here

[Muppett]

Fantastic, world's premier business channel...you can't buy publicity like that ! Jayne comes across very well with fresh energy and enthusiasm.

Jayne is in America because she has a date with Oprah.
That should send the SP into the stratosphere........if she endorses it.
The ultimate publicity.

[winner69]

NZX50 rebalance 21 Sept.

That should be good for ATM ...probably a higher weighting?

[sb9]

Jayne is in America because she has a date with Oprah.
That should send the SP into the stratosphere........if she endorses it.
The ultimate publicity.

Source for the info?

[winner69]

Source for the info?

C’mon sb9 ......keep up with the news

[Joshuatree]

Jayne is in America because she has a date with Oprah.
That should send the SP into the stratosphere........if she endorses it.
The ultimate publicity.

Yeah share the hot sauce yah muppett unless its all in your head and you hear voices;)

[limmy]

This might be interesting :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=885tlQNij-I

Your comments on the discussions ?

[silu]

Jayne is in America because she has a date with Oprah.
That should send the SP into the stratosphere........if she endorses it.
The ultimate publicity.

Wait what? And IF (big if) she has a date with Oprah she will endorse it. Because before you can even have a glance at Oprah you have to go through several layers of production and personal staff.

[minimoke]

Is Oprah still a t hing?

[silu]

Is Oprah still a t hing?

Still huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge! If she endorses anything there are legions of fans who will snap it up no matter what. She has her own network.
As of February 2015, OWN is available to approximately 81.9 million pay television households (70.3% of households with television) in the United States.

[Dust]

Still huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge! If she endorses anything there are legions of fans who will snap it up no matter what. She has her own network.
As of February 2015, OWN is available to approximately 81.9 million pay television households (70.3% of households with television) in the United States.

Yep, just look at weightwatchers..an Oprah endorsement could easily triple this stock in a matter of 3 month

[flyer]

[QUOTE=limmy;728104]This might be interesting :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=885tlQNij-I

Thanks for that. A spot on Oprah will be great, share price not having a happy day today though.

[Dorkus]

Wish I’d sold yesterday... had my order in for 1294, didn’t quite make it :(

[RupertBear]

Wish I’d sold yesterday... had my order in for 1294, didn’t quite make it :(

Hold on it will go back up ;) ...well I hope it will :D

[Muppett]

This is one **** stock.

[silu]

This is one **** stock.

Yeah still just sitting on a +2000% return on this one :)

But fear not if you're into this long term. She'll be right.

[Muppett]

Yeah still just sitting on a +2000% return on this one :)

But fear not if you're into this long term. She'll be right.

At $11.66, the current SP you bought in at approx 55 cents.
Nice, but what did that actually translate into in net $ terms?
I'm not long term, too many potential pitfalls.

[silu]

Nice, but what did that actually translate into in net $ terms?
I'm not long term, too many potential pitfalls.

If you're into it short term you should have had a very tight stop-loss operating.

[Muppett]

If you're into it short term you should have had a very tight stop-loss operating.
That is one of my weakness, I agree.

[blundoon]

Hi all, I haven't commented for a while, but have been enjoying all your contributions. Re the marketing success that a2 is having; I would say that Susan Massasso and her team would be largely responsible for that. I'm currently living in Australia and I no longer watch watch the TV show Masterchef, but I do like My Kitchen Rules, and a2 were clever enough to stump up the cash to be one of the sponsors for this very addictive show. This meant that not only did you see competitors selecting a2 milk when they were shopping in Coles, (the major sponsor of the show), but when they were using milk or cream in their own kitchens - it was the a2 brand. Also, the show was peppered with advertisements for a2 milk. I happen to know the previous chairman Cliff Cook, and I asked him earlier this year who was responsible for the sponsorship - Susan M or Peter Nathan, but he didn't know - he is no longer directly involved.

Now, I would appreciate some help from Auckland investors. My sister and her family live on the North Shore, and shop mainly at Browns Bay and Albany, but cannot find a2 milk anywhere. The only place that she was previously able to find it was Huckleberry Farms, (at great cost), but apparently no longer. I thought the JV with Fonterra was supposed to make a2 readily available in NZ - seeing that Fresha Valley don't seem to want to come to the party.

[dragonz]

Hi I just brought some from our local countdown on Waiheke Island so this should be readily available on the north shore. Here is a link. Is this the right stuff? https://shop.countdown.co.nz/shop/productdetails?stockcode=282801&name=fresha-valley-milk-standard-a2&searchString=a2+milk

[Patient Panda]

I bought in today and will hopefully buy more in the near future.


If I’m not allowed to post this please just let me know and I can remove it

STMOD SAYS: YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO POST THIS

A quick bit of research would have told you the terms and conditions attached to this report but you did not bother to look did you?

With any article you can provide a link, quote a small excerpt, and comment on it.

[Patient Panda]

Forward PEG ratio of 0.75 according to 4traders.

TTM PEG ratio of 1.1

extremely strong chance of upgrades as we’ve seen in the past

[minimoke]

Nice to see ATM hitting $12.00 again today, as well as SML up to $13.24. Things certainly light up once the Ozzies wake up.

[whatsup]

Back up over $12 today of very good Asian preso in H K .

[Muppett]

Back up over $12 today of very good Asian preso in H K .

Why was it a very good presentation?

[whatsup]

Why was it a very good presentation?

I think that the market is becoming used to the good news that this company delivers and with the business plan in place investors can see what the future direction they are heading.

[winner69]

Why was it a very good presentation?

Very good ....in that presented to an Asian audience and possibly to a few / many who didn’t know much about A2

Bloody good presentation isn’t it .....impressive if you haven’t seen before

[Muppett]

I think that the market is becoming used to the good news that this company delivers and with the business plan in place investors can see what the future direction they are heading.

I read the whole presentation, nothing new, had seen the numbers etc... all before.
I'm only concerned that they admit on slide 23 that the UK continue to be challenging to deliver scale and is not mentioned in their outlook. So basically write off the poms to add to the bottom line. Anything they deliver is a (potential) bonus.

It does seem there is only good news as you put it.
Maybe it's just a stock biding it's time.

[Patient Panda]

19th not far away to see guidance from synlait. Kind of a shame the shareprice has shot up again before I could buy more.

looks like A2 can hardly keep up with the insatiable demand. The price increase in Chinese infant formula should also be a nice boost to margins and revenue to EBIT conversion.

[sb9]

I'm only concerned that they admit on slide 23 that the UK continue to be challenging to deliver scale and is not mentioned in their outlook. So basically write off the poms to add to the bottom line. Anything they deliver is a (potential) bonus.


Spot on, exactly my thoughts too re UK operations. I don't think Jayne is going to entertain UK idea for too long unless she notices big turnaround in this FY, if not ditch UK and spend that money for US operations where it seem to be gaining traction more swiftly.

[whatsup]

Spot on, exactly my thoughts too re UK operations. I don't think Jayne is going to entertain UK idea for too long unless she notices big turnaround in this FY, if not ditch UK and spend that money for US operations where it seem to be gaining traction more swiftly.

O K 2 out of 3 aint bad !

[Muppett]

O K 2 out of 3 aint bad !

That's what Meatloaf said.
He had a career, but hopefully ATM's is longer.

[whatsup]

That's what Meatloaf said.
He had a career, but hopefully ATM's is longer.

AND far more valuable already without the B S et al!

[Sideshow Bob]

Saw A2 for the first time in the South Island today - in Timaru - who would have thunk! $5.97 for 2L of Fresha Valley

[Muppett]

Saw A2 for the first time in the South Island today - in Timaru - who would have thunk! $5.97 for 2L of Fresha Valley

The real deal A2 milk is/was due to be launched in July FY19. So, it should be out and about soon, unfortunately.

[Patient Panda]

Saw A2 for the first time in the South Island today - in Timaru - who would have thunk! $5.97 for 2L of Fresha Valley


Its very easy to find in Christchurch. Can find it at most New Worlds

[limmy]

How is the current A2 milk in the supermarkets not the real deal ? Have I missed something ?


The real deal A2 milk is/was due to be launched in July FY19. So, it should be out and about soon, unfortunately.

[Patient Panda]

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/agri-business/centre-keen-to-promote-a2-cow-milk-to-lift-farmers-income/article24925286.ece

[Muppett]

How is the current A2 milk in the supermarkets not the real deal ? Have I missed something ?

Maybe it's my perception and taste buds, but what I meant by the real deal was not the Fresha Valley milk as it looks tacky and tastes awful.
The real deal is the A2 bottle that has the label with a2 in large white letters on the purple background, so it really stands out and yes folks, it tastes better.
I drink the later whenever in Aus.

[tipsy]

Fresha Valley tastes great, preferred that over the Anchor A2, had a fuller, creamier taste.

[winner69]

Cheapest 2l milk I can find at Countdown tastes just fine

Last lot was $3.50/

[longy]

I don't drink milk but only have a little in coffee or tea and Anchor A2 goes great with with them. My 10 and 12 years old said don't buy Budget range any more cos it tastes too watery. :)

[Dust]

Nestle still attempting a pathetic push with their NAN brands. Cheap knockoff brand that's been stagnant for the past decade. Not relevant.

[Muppett]

Can anyone please tell me how this company is going to make money in the short term, bearing in mind the following:



Hurricane Florence is going to hit North & South Carolina and Virginia. A large area of the US for A2 sales which might possibly be impacted in H1 FY19 results.
The UK is a struggle by the company's own admission and the UK does not feature as a focus in their Outlook for the future.
The NZ role out will be a drag on the bottom line as there will be costs with marketing and distribution with little chance of scale as NZ is too small.
With the bloated costs of the ANZ operations in comparison to the Asia operation, the company has stated it intends to increase marketing on the China/Asia market. Hope it works.
No other or emerging market options, but they are a waste of time anyway.


I actually hope the SP goes North, but will it, can it?

[longy]

Can anyone please tell me how this company is going to make money in the short term, bearing in mind the following:



Hurricane Florence is going to hit North & South Carolina and Virginia. A large area of the US for A2 sales which might possibly be impacted in H1 FY19 results.
The UK is a struggle by the company's own admission and the UK does not feature as a focus in their Outlook for the future.
The NZ role out will be a drag on the bottom line as there will be costs with marketing and distribution with little chance of scale as NZ is too small.
With the bloated costs of the ANZ operations in comparison to the Asia operation, the company has stated it intends to increase marketing on the China/Asia market. Hope it works.
No other or emerging market options, but they are a waste of time anyway.


I actually hope the SP goes North, but will it, can it?

That is depending how much weight do you put on the CEO's words. So what we already knew from what she said... The company is tracking well and over head costs would be slightly higher in 2019. Hence that is why I think the SP is lingering on around this level.

Perhaps a broker would probably be a better person to ask re short term of its cash generating.

[couta1]

Can anyone please tell me how this company is going to make money in the short term, bearing in mind the following:



Hurricane Florence is going to hit North & South Carolina and Virginia. A large area of the US for A2 sales which might possibly be impacted in H1 FY19 results.
The UK is a struggle by the company's own admission and the UK does not feature as a focus in their Outlook for the future.
The NZ role out will be a drag on the bottom line as there will be costs with marketing and distribution with little chance of scale as NZ is too small.
With the bloated costs of the ANZ operations in comparison to the Asia operation, the company has stated it intends to increase marketing on the China/Asia market. Hope it works.
No other or emerging market options, but they are a waste of time anyway.


I actually hope the SP goes North, but will it, can it? Sounds like you might like to consider trimming your sizable shareholding somewhat to a level you are comfortable holding through all the turbulence, IMO A2 is the future of milk looking forward and there will be plenty of pie to go around. PS-Holding half as many as a few months back as a Long Term position.

[Muppett]

Sounds like you might like to consider trimming your sizable shareholding somewhat to a level you are comfortable holding through all the turbulence, IMO A2 is the future of milk looking forward and there will be plenty of pie to go around. PS-Holding half as many as a few months back as a Long Term position.

I used to have 250,000 shares when it was $1.80-$2.00 but then sold periodically to now only have 50,000.
I do hope the SP goes North but am struggling to see any logic in it. Broker reports are self interested.
I am guessing that GS, if not already, will start unloading.
Have not heard back from the guy on here who says there's a gap to fill at $9.50. I'll cry if he is right.

[minimoke]

Can anyone please tell me how this company is going to make money in the short term, bearing in mind the following:



Hurricane Florence is going to hit North & South Carolina and Virginia. A large area of the US for A2 sales which might possibly be impacted in H1 FY19 results.
The UK is a struggle by the company's own admission and the UK does not feature as a focus in their Outlook for the future.
The NZ role out will be a drag on the bottom line as there will be costs with marketing and distribution with little chance of scale as NZ is too small.
With the bloated costs of the ANZ operations in comparison to the Asia operation, the company has stated it intends to increase marketing on the China/Asia market. Hope it works.
No other or emerging market options, but they are a waste of time anyway.


I dont understand the concern behind your questions.

Take Question 1 for example.

US/UK revenues are reported as $15.4m (exc $15m infant formula sold to UK.)
China / Asia revenues $233m
ANZ revenues $656m

Now let's say USA is half the US / UK revenues so lets call it 7.5m
Now lets say North / South Carolina is half US sales. Lets call that $3.5m
Now lets say 50% of North / South Carolina consumers are affected by the Hurricane we are now talking about $1.7m

Now lets say distribution is affected for 2 weeks.

Do you see where I am going with this?

pg 24 of the hong kong presentation will give you a picture of US distribution. Then read rest of report for guidance on the answers you are lookng for.

[Dust]

Rather than a position reduction maybe look at hedging the storm instead? Homebuilders, auto repair typically do well after a bad hurricane. The spot prices for trucking capacities will also benefit. Although none of these names are currently outperforming, which suggests that market don't see much of a material impact from the hurricane...

[BlackPeter]

I used to have 250,000 shares when it was $1.80-$2.00 but then sold periodically to now only have 50,000.
I do hope the SP goes North but am struggling to see any logic in it. Broker reports are self interested.
I am guessing that GS, if not already, will start unloading.
Have not heard back from the guy on here who says there's a gap to fill at $9.50. I'll cry if he is right.

Well, there clearly has been (and is) a gap - however - not all gaps get filled - it is just another statistical game.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/05/playinggaps.asp

BTW - it was Moosie postulating this gap. His TA which he liberally shares with others is very worthwhile reading, however - he does not post anymore on this forum.

[Muppett]

Thanks to all the above for your thoughts and replies.

[longy]

Well, there clearly has been (and is) a gap - however - not all gaps get filled - it is just another statistical game.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/05/playinggaps.asp

BTW - it was Moosie postulating this gap. His TA which he liberally shares with others is very worthwhile reading, however - he does not post anymore on this forum.

What happened to Moosie better question where is Moosie now?

[BlackPeter]

What happened to Moosie better question where is Moosie now?

You might read his comments from time to time on NBR .. and than there are other forums. Search and you will find ;);

[minimoke]

I'm not a big fan of these off-shore "hybrid" AGM's. How can I get my cup of tea and scones which I always consider to be part of my Special Dividend? Christchurch trumps Melbourne any day of the week.

[sb9]

Noticed today volume traded on NZX is higher than ASX, doesn't happen very often.

[Dust]

Seems hurricane florence's impact isn't as bad as expected, few of my east coast pals even bought extra groceries to hunker down which wasn't needed in the end, business as usual I guess. Nice little 2% intraday swing from open.

[Southern_Belle]

Accumulate .. ...... Valuation $14.60 they say ...... let's see who agrees with latest recommendation

[Ggcc]

Accumulate .. ...... Valuation $14.60 they say ...... let's see who agrees with latest recommendation
Which organisation came up with that valuation

[longy]

Morning Star. I don't know how much weight I should place on their valuation. I think 50/50.

[blundoon]

Hi I just brought some from our local countdown on Waiheke Island so this should be readily available on the north shore. Here is a link. Is this the right stuff? https://shop.countdown.co.nz/shop/productdetails?stockcode=282801&name=fresha-valley-milk-standard-a2&searchString=a2+milk

Thanks dragonz, yes, that is indeed the right stuff. I had read that a2's contract with Fresha Valley was to expire in 2017, but it must've been renewed. I used the 'suburb search' function on the website that you provided, and discovered that Browns Bay Countdown has the Fresha Valley brand of a2. I have also recently been informed that Anchor (owned by Fonterra), is marketing a2 fresh milk in New Zealand as well. Thanks again for the link :t_up:

[Leftfield]

Thanks dragonz, yes, that is indeed the right stuff. I had read that a2's contract with Fresha Valley was to expire in 2017, but it must've been renewed. I used the 'suburb search' function on the website that you provided, and discovered that Browns Bay Countdown has the Fresha Valley brand of a2. I have also been recently informed that Anchor (owned by Fonterra), is marketing a2 fresh milk in New Zealand as well. Thanks again for the link :t_up:

I'm puzzled by the NZ marketing of A2. Is it ATM's strategy to allow the Fresha Valley range to compete (at lower prices) through Countdown etc while Anchor sells at a higher price in New Worlds?

Or are Fresha Valley now operating outside of any arrangement with A2 (as their non ATM A2 logo label seems to imply.) Bit Micky mouse IMHO and needs to be sorted/clarrified.

[Patient Panda]

Left field it was my understNding Fonterra have exclusive supply to China and NZ and Aus. Maybe its just the last stock of Fresha Valley coming through?

[Scooter]

https://www.countdown.co.nz/community-environment/meet-our-suppliers/fresha-valley-case-study

[Patient Panda]

Just checked my fridge and it is Fresha Valley. However I am not in the North island nor buying from Countdown. Have not yet seen any Fonterra A2 fresh milk yet.

very strange when you think about it.

[Scooter]

not really, with the case study from Countdown above, I would say there is a bigger margin from Fresha Valley, than Fonterra

[Leftfield]

Thanks for posting Scooter. IMO the article makes it look like Fresha are operating without ATM's 'licensing' (hence the non-logo label.)
However Patient Panda, there may well be a phase in/phase out period (perhaps until Anchor A2 milk is available throughout NZ and not just in the Nth Island.) Time will tell.

If Fresha Valley continues it would seem to shoot down much of ATM's claimed patent and logo protection while supporting a much cheaper A2 alternative.

(Although I'm a long term shareholder of ATM, I've been buying Fresha Valley for several years as it's always been stocked by the Countdown I favour and I thought it had ATM's 'blessing'. It's good quality and suits my non-A1 milk loving tummy)

[Scooter]

Thanks for posting Scooter. IMO the article makes it look like Fresha are operating without ATM's 'licensing' (hence the non-logo label.)
However Patient Panda, there may well be a phase in/phase out period (perhaps until Anchor A2 milk is available throughout NZ and not just in the Nth Island.) Time will tell.

If Fresha Valley continues it would seem to shoot down much of ATM's claimed patent and logo protection while supporting a much cheaper A2 alternative.

(Although I'm a long term shareholder of ATM, I've been buying Fresha Valley for several years as it's always been stocked by the Countdown I favour and I thought it had ATM's 'blessing'. It's good quality and suits my non-A1 milk loving tummy)
Agree on this on so many levels, I too am a share holder and have been buying Fresha Valley A2 for a long time due to taste, and cost. Still disappointed at Fonterra A2 being $1.50 more for the same volume.

[Beagle]

Thanks for posting Scooter. IMO the article makes it look like Fresha are operating without ATM's 'licensing' (hence the non-logo label.)
However Patient Panda, there may well be a phase in/phase out period (perhaps until Anchor A2 milk is available throughout NZ and not just in the Nth Island.) Time will tell.

If Fresha Valley continues it would seem to shoot down much of ATM's claimed patent and logo protection while supporting a much cheaper A2 alternative.

(Although I'm a long term shareholder of ATM, I've been buying Fresha Valley for several years as it's always been stocked by the Countdown I favour and I thought it had ATM's 'blessing'. It's good quality and suits my non-A1 milk loving tummy)

If you rang head office at ATM and tried to get a straight answer out of anyone you can bet they would decline to comment on the grounds of commercial sensitivity.

[tipsy]

I believe Fresha Valley is still producing A2 milk under licence. Unless they've developed their own herd testing techniques in the past year. (I thought ATM had protected the IP around this? Although may have lapsed now)

Also just came across this, https://www.facebook.com/countdown/posts/our-fresha-valley-a2-milk-is-so-popular-that-demand-has-more-than-doubled-in-the/1913424588700457/

Seems to be popular, have noticed there is now a lot more Fresha Valley on the shelves at my local countdown, before it was just a couple of rows, now they have crates stacked up.

[Ggcc]

$178,000,000 went through for the day. Wow. Glad I’m onboard for now

[Muppett]

$178,000,000 went through for the day. Wow. Glad I’m onboard for now

Why are you glad?
What difference will the re-balance to the NZX50 make to the share price on Monday?

[couta1]

Why are you glad?
What difference will the re-balance to the NZX50 make to the share price on Monday? None, it will either go up or down.

[peat]

to be fair heavy volume is often a good thing for a a share price and supports conviction when it is rising.
If you'[re saying that volume is artificial coz of rebalancing hmm maybe thats true. it goes through on the figures though and so counts doesnt it?

[Muppett]

to be fair heavy volume is often a good thing for a a share price and supports conviction when it is rising.
If you'[re saying that volume is artificial coz of rebalancing hmm maybe thats true. it goes through on the figures though and so counts doesnt it?

I have no idea, but if there is a buyer or every seller, then why is "heavy volume a good thing..." Someone is losing out?
The 14m in total volume distorts the normal trading activity and subsequent analysis.
Any econometric model would surely consider this an outlier?

[Patient Panda]

Theres no change to the underlying business. Its just arbitrary and meaningless. Wait for next announcement from management and we’ll all be in for a treat I’m sure. :)

[Ggcc]

Did miss hrdlicka sell all her shares? That is something I don’t understand unless she had heaps of stuff to do around the house

[winner69]

Why are you glad?
What difference will the re-balance to the NZX50 make to the share price on Monday?

Rebalancing all done and dusted today ....thus big volume

[Muppett]

Did miss hrdlicka sell all her shares? That is something I don’t understand unless she had heaps of stuff to do around the house

I hope not.
She is on a A$1,500,000 salary with incentives and all she has to do is give 6 months notice and she is out (no fixed term contract).

[winner69]

Did miss hrdlicka sell all her shares? That is something I don’t understand unless she had heaps of stuff to do around the house

Just cashing in her Qantas bonus that A2 said they would cover to get her on board. Quite a lot of dosh eh

Disclosure says she now has no skin in the game you the looks of it

[couta1]

Just cashing in her Qantas bonus that A2 said they would cover to get her on board. Quite a lot of dosh eh

Disclosure says she now has no skin in the game you the looks of it She sold half her shares but she still has a heap of performance rights so no worries unless she doesn't perform.

[peat]

I have no idea, but if there is a buyer or every seller, then why is "heavy volume a good thing..." Someone is losing out?
The 14m in total volume distorts the normal trading activity and subsequent analysis.
Any econometric model would surely consider this an outlier?

Volume is a good thing because it shows strong interest in that security. it represents the market better, giving a more robust idea on price. Rising prices on falling volume are more likely to stop rising.

I guess what I'm unclear on is how the volume is affected by the rebalancing in some way. Are the shares bought and sold by willing participants in a genuine transaction? Or not?

[winner69]

Volume is a good thing because it shows strong interest in that security. it represents the market better, giving a more robust idea on price. Rising prices on falling volume are more likely to stop rising.

I guess what I'm unclear on is how the volume is affected by the rebalancing in some way. Are the shares bought and sold by willing participants in a genuine transaction? Or not?

Isn’t a lot of today’s volume purchases by passive tracking funds

Not buying because they reckon A2 is a screaming buy ....stupid eh

[Muppett]

Isn’t a lot of today’s volume purchases by passive tracking funds

Not buying because they reckon A2 is a screaming buy ....stupid eh

But who is selling 14m shares to the passive tracking funds?

[peat]

Isn’t a lot of today’s volume purchases by passive tracking funds

Not buying because they reckon A2 is a screaming buy ....stupid eh

I see that as real business and not artificial volume
These passive funds will continue to behave like that and so it indicates the buy side is real. They'll have to keep buying.

[Baa_Baa]

She sold half her shares but she still has a heap of performance rights so no worries unless she doesn't perform.

:t_down: Never a good look, 'specially for a new comer.

[Ggcc]

:t_down: Never a good look, 'specially for a new comer.
I agree it is something that does not feel good when it is a newcomer

[couta1]

:t_down: Never a good look, 'specially for a new comer. Looks like the Aussies weren't that impressed, finished down for the day, mind you there are plenty of shorts around.

[minimoke]

EXTREMELY poor form - especially dumping notice after NZ close. Surely she her deck doesnt need doing already.

[winner69]

EXTREMELY poor form - especially dumping notice after NZ close. Surely she her deck doesnt need doing already.

Its not all bad minimoke. Just her Qantas bonuses being paid by A2 .....and she obviously got a huge tax bill as a result so had to sell a lot to pay that. Still as heap of rights which hopefully will incentivise her

from the disclosure


The sale of the above-mentioned Ordinary Shares has been made by Ms Hrdlicka in order to: (i) fund the tax obligations relating to the recent automatic exercise of timebased rights; and (ii) fund commitments made by Ms Hrdlicka prior to her taking up employment with the Company.

Ms Hrdlicka retains a relevant interest in Time-Based Rights and Performance Rights (as noted on the previous page).


St

[Baa_Baa]

Its not all bad minimoke. Just her Qantas bonuses being paid by A2 .....and she obviously got a huge tax bill as a result so had to sell a lot to pay that. Still as heap of rights which hopefully will incentivise her

from the disclosure


The sale of the above-mentioned Ordinary Shares has been made by Ms Hrdlicka in order to: (i) fund the tax obligations relating to the recent automatic exercise of timebased rights; and (ii) fund commitments made by Ms Hrdlicka prior to her taking up employment with the Company.

Ms Hrdlicka retains a relevant interest in Time-Based Rights and Performance Rights (as noted on the previous page).


St

Looks like you're making excuses for her Winner. If she doesn't have enough dosh to cover that obligation and needs to sell down her ATM gift, then I'm questioning her prior ability to manage her finances, unless this was all predetermined which is what it looks like. Either way, it's a really bad look, the optics will resonate poorly with shareholders. Her immediate legacy is to preside over a significant degradation in shareholder capital and take advantage of it before it goes even lower. Buyer beware. Jmho. ATM PE heading lower with the SP and no one knows how to price fair value. The predators will be all over this like a rash. Eyes on the charts, capital growth and capital preservation are the only things in play. The boss has voted with her sell.

[winner69]

......

ATM PE heading lower with the SP and no one knows how to price fair value. ........


Agree with you there baabaa - bit like buying a pig in a poke eh

[Beagle]

EXTREMELY poor form - especially dumping notice after NZ close. Surely she her deck doesnt need doing already.
Maybe Ms Herdlicker has decided to buy a house here, not cheap to look the part in the right circles you know.

[couta1]

Maybe Ms Herdlicker has decided to buy a house here, not cheap to look the part in the right circles you know. Apparently the poor woman has only made 4.8 million since taking over the CEO role a couple of months ago, clearly a Trougher of the highest order.

[couta1]

She sold half her shares but she still has a heap of performance rights so no worries unless she doesn't perform. My bad, she sold all her shares not half.

[Beagle]

I wasn't happy with her package right from the get go but this is morally reprehensible so soon after being appointed. But no worries, every PC man and his dog tells us that diversity in leadership is a wonderful thing, juts look what a "fantastic" job Jacinda is doing as a perfect example lol

[tipsy]

Yeah, this is a terrible look, maybe she saw the Morningstar recommendation?

[winner69]

I wasn't happy with her package right from the get go but this is morally reprehensible so soon after being appointed. But no worries, every PC man and his dog tells us that diversity in leadership is a wonderful thing, juts look what a "fantastic" job Jacinda is doing as a perfect example lol

Jeez mate ,..it was only the equivalent to her Qantas bonus she gave up by coming to A2

Up to last week she was the bee’s knees and the best of CEO since sliced bread and now poor jayne seems to be on the scrap heap

[Leftfield]

A lot of pretty shameful sexist ranting by posters re the CEO's share sale yesterday.......Why don't we accept what the company says??? i.e.;

1) On market sale of 178,616 Ordinary Shares using broker facilities; (2) On market sale of 178,616 Ordinary Shares using broker facilities.
The above mentioned Ordinary Shares were received by Ms Hrdlicka on the automatic exercise of time-based rights in the Company (such time-based rights having been granted to Ms Hrdlicka as a one-off transition benefit compensating her for the forfeiture of incentive entitlements from her former employer as a result of her resignation to take up employment with the Company).
The sale of the above mentioned Ordinary Shares has been made by Ms Hrdlicka in order to: (i) fund the tax obligations relating to the recent automatic exercise of time- based rights; and (ii) fund commitments made by Ms Hrdlicka prior to her taking up employment with the Company.
Ms Hrdlicka retains a relevant interest in Time-Based Rights and Performance Rights (as noted below).

Maybe this is the price we have to pay to get a good CEO, and just maybe, the fact that she now only has 'time-based' performance based shares to her name gives her greater incentive to perform in the future.

Time will tell.

[iceman]

A lot of pretty shameful sexist ranting by posters re the CEO's share sale yesterday.......Why don't we accept what the company says??? i.e.;



That's a bit out of Left Field isn't it mate ??

[Leftfield]

Of course..... that's my job.

Perhaps you have another explanation for this post by a certain well respected dog???

"I wasn't happy with her package right from the get go but this is morally reprehensible so soon after being appointed. But no worries, every PC man and his dog tells us that diversity in leadership is a wonderful thing, juts look what a "fantastic" job Jacinda is doing as a perfect example lol"

[couta1]

That's a bit out of Left Field isn't it mate ?? Yep a pretty mild and muted response on here so far, have a read over on hotcopper if you really want to see a lymch mob in action. I find her actions extremely distasteful for a person who has been on a huge multi million dollar salary for umpteen years, Im sure she had access to the loose change to meet her tax obligations without selling ALL her A2 shares after just 2 months in the job.

[iceman]

Of course..... that's my job.

Perhaps you have another explanation for this post by a certain well respected dog???

"I wasn't happy with her package right from the get go but this is morally reprehensible so soon after being appointed. But no worries, every PC man and his dog tells us that diversity in leadership is a wonderful thing, juts look what a "fantastic" job Jacinda is doing as a perfect example lol"



No I don't have an explanation for Beagle or anyone else and don't let other people's views expressed on here upset me too much. Each to their own.

[winner69]

Love HC .....one poster bloodbath on Monday

[couta1]

Love HC .....one poster bloodbath on Monday Hard to predict what the reaction will be on Monday, lots of active shorts to add fuel to any fire.

[Beagle]

A lot of pretty shameful sexist ranting by posters re the CEO's share sale yesterday.......Why don't we accept what the company says??? i.e.;

1) On market sale of 178,616 Ordinary Shares using broker facilities; (2) On market sale of 178,616 Ordinary Shares using broker facilities.
The above mentioned Ordinary Shares were received by Ms Hrdlicka on the automatic exercise of time-based rights in the Company (such time-based rights having been granted to Ms Hrdlicka as a one-off transition benefit compensating her for the forfeiture of incentive entitlements from her former employer as a result of her resignation to take up employment with the Company).
The sale of the above mentioned Ordinary Shares has been made by Ms Hrdlicka in order to: (i) fund the tax obligations relating to the recent automatic exercise of time- based rights; and (ii) fund commitments made by Ms Hrdlicka prior to her taking up employment with the Company.
Ms Hrdlicka retains a relevant interest in Time-Based Rights and Performance Rights (as noted below).

Maybe this is the price we have to pay to get a good CEO, and just maybe, the fact that she now only has 'time-based' performance based shares to her name gives her greater incentive to perform in the future.

Time will tell.







I think you might have got a little OTT with that opinion but that slightly naughty dog...sometimes when he's had a busy day and hasn't got much time he sees someone throw a stick and he can't help himself and runs over quickly and picks it up without knowing which end he's got a hold of. Sorry the dog isn't "purrfect" I saw Jayne in a CNBC interview the other day and she did a very good job of clearly articulating the company's position. She no doubt has faced considerable costs relocating to this side of the Tasman and its not cheap to look the part and own a decent home in a good suburb these days. Thank you for posting the details.

On the other hand you should have heard the CEO of OCA Earl Gasparich the other evening opining on how difficult it is for business to engage with Govt on critical issues affecting getting enough staff in the retirement industry. Basically they simply don't want to engage...maybe they need yet another review committee ?
Business is frustrated with this Government for a wide variety of reasons including ineffective and weak leadership.

[Baa_Baa]

Hard to predict what the reaction will be on Monday, lots of active shorts to add fuel to any fire.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/ATM/announcements Sobering reading, do shareholders read this stuff? No shame issuing dilutionary shares and options and no shame by the bosses unloading swags of the largess. The millionaire factory is the Board room and Senior Management, not so much ordinary shareholders. 30 weeks since the SP high of $14.62, found a low SP $9.99 and two looks at $10.12 and $10.15. Basically sideways while the troughers have their snouts in the food basket.

[Beagle]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/ATM/announcements Sobering reading, do shareholders read this stuff? No shame issuing dilutionary shares and options and no shame by the bosses unloading swags of the largess. The millionaire factory is the Board room and Senior Management, not so much ordinary shareholders. 30 weeks since the SP high of $14.62, found a low SP $9.99 and two looks at $10.12 and $10.15. Basically sideways while the troughers have their snouts in the food basket.

To be fair she was going to get that bonus from Qantas either in cash or shares and she has had some major costs relocating to N.Z. The board clearly thinks she is the right person for the job.

Its somewhat frustrating to see the SP track sideways since February but one must expect such things from time to time after such a stellar previous run. Shares started 2018 at $8.07 so SP performance this year to date is up by 12.51 / 8.07 = 55%, miles ahead of the NZX50 gain.

[hardt]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/ATM/announcements Sobering reading, do shareholders read this stuff? No shame issuing dilutionary shares and options and no shame by the bosses unloading swags of the largess. The millionaire factory is the Board room and Senior Management, not so much ordinary shareholders. 30 weeks since the SP high of $14.62, found a low SP $9.99 and two looks at $10.12 and $10.15. Basically sideways while the troughers have their snouts in the food basket.

By her leaving Quantas and coming to A2 she was missing out on 4+ mil in near-mid term bonuses...this was a negotiated incentive to bring a world class CEO over to A2. Nothing more.

A2 has created many millionaires on both the HC and ST forums...those nasty comments are from people who entered in more recently and the opportunistic short brigade... And those who never got a cent from this 10 bagger.

[winner69]

To be fair she was going to get that bonus from Qantas either in cash or shares and she has had some major costs relocating to N.Z. The board clearly thinks she is the right person for the job.

Its somewhat frustrating to see the SP track sideways since February but one must expect such things from time to time after such a stellar previous run. Shares started 2018 at $8.07 so SP performance this year to date is up by 12.51 / 8.07 = 55%, miles ahead of the NZX50 gain.

I think Jayne is Aussie based ....my Contacts shows an Aussie mobile number

The real hero at A2 is Susan Massasso (CMO) and she’s an Aussie as well. She’s cashed in a few million bucks of shares lately as well.

Isn’t A2 a great Aussie company anyway

[Baa_Baa]

https://www.fool.com.au/2018/09/21/a2-milk-company-ltd-asxa2m-ceo-sells-shares-time-to-panic/

"What now?
While Ms Hrdlicka clearly has valid reasons for the sale of these shares, it is still very disappointing to see her offload all her ordinary shares so soon after joining the company and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the a2 Milk Company’s share price sink lower on Monday.

Especially when there are concerns that its growth could be challenged this year due to a maturing Chinese infant formula market.

In addition to this, the share sales by Bellamy’s Australia Ltd (ASX: BAL) executives before its fall from grace a couple of years ago is no doubt still fresh in the minds of many investors."

[RGR367]

Good if it goes down really bad come Monday so we can buy more but most of us should really curse when it goes below 54 cents, I guess. I definitely would :p

[bull....]

it makes perfect sense why sold Probably why they gave no forecast for next year

[Beagle]

The optics on this are not great but I think some people are really overstating the relative importance of this issue, (perhaps for their own benefit as they may be shorting the shares). Its also worth noting that perhaps we've become a little spoiled with the likes of AIR and HBL for example issuing a current full year forecast at the time of reporting the previous year's results. This is, or at least used to be, extremely rare.

Some holders might express their frustration on Monday morning with a little tantrum by selling, like they're expressing it on HC at present and then its back to business. Onward and upward, forward PE is very reasonable for a company with such high growth.

[minimoke]

Some holders might express their frustration on Monday morning with a little tantrum by selling, like they're expressing it on HC at present and then its back to business. Onward and upward, forward PE is very reasonable for a company with such high growth.
And for those with a bit of cash might be a good time to top up. (wont be me though - I am pretty well exposed to ATM already)

[bull....]

i very surprised hlicker needed 4m to pay tax thats a rediculous amount to owe? all very suss i reckon all directors selling out recently , no guidance given.

maybe they getting ready to block a2 in retailiation for steel probe decision?

[Beagle]

i very surprised hlicker needed 4m to pay tax thats a rediculous amount to owe? all very suss Have a look at the top tax rates in Australia, 45% plus 2% medicare levy, that's 47% tax on every dollar earned over $180K plus their 10% GST, ouch ! i reckon all directors selling out recently , no guidance given. get over it, not every company gives guidance so early in the financial year

maybe they getting ready to block a2 in retailiation for steel probe decision? You really are scraping the bottom of the barrell with that sort of wildly speculative comment

Your're short, we get it but its getting more and more silly...:t_down:

[bull....]

Your're short, we get it but its getting more and more silly...:t_down:

we all know what happened to ballamys after the new ish ceo sold out .... ouch it was a pretence to some bad news. i hope for holders this is not a repeat coming.

[Baa_Baa]

The optics on this are not great but I think some people are really overstating the relative importance of this issue, (perhaps for their own benefit as they may be shorting the shares). Its also worth noting that perhaps we've become a little spoiled with the likes of AIR and HBL for example issuing a current full year forecast at the time of reporting the previous year's results. This is, or at least used to be, extremely rare.

Some holders might express their frustration on Monday morning with a little tantrum by selling, like they're expressing it on HC at present and then its back to business. Onward and upward, forward PE is very reasonable for a company with such high growth.

It's irrelevant what one or other posters positions in the market are, imho it always pays to keep an open mind and take on board all points of view without prejudice or emotion, then form an opinion and have a plan either way on Monday. This could be innocuous and just a bad look by the new CEO, or it could be serious. Have a plan A and a plan B.

[RupertBear]

Just to add to the mix Craigs downgraded ATM from a buy to hold last week. Based on potential uncertainty around upcoming regulatory changes and a more limited risk-reward profile. They maintain their sell recomendation on SML.

[Yoda]

Aussies closed at 12.32 nzd so down from our 12. 50 , seeing that they had 2 hrs more trading .
looks like it started to fall a bit before the notice was given and fell more afterwards .
But not a blood bath given they had time still to trade after the notice , unlike us . Ride the storm?

[minimoke]

It is the CEO's job to drive a business to sucess. And to keep Directors and major shareholders happy. She wont be doing anything that will upset these folks. Be prepared for a bargain.

[Beagle]

It is the CEO's job to drive a business to sucess. And to keep Directors and major shareholders happy. She wont be doing anything that will upset these folks. Be prepared for a bargain.

I reckon A2 milk bought at bargain prices provides very good nourishment :)

[bull....]

Devon Funds executive chairman Paul Glass said


Seeing Hrdlicka sell was "quite staggering" , Glass said

It's a really interesting decision for a new CEO to dump every share she owns


Investors are paying over 32 times forecast earnings for this stock so it's not one you want to see any negative surprises from," Glass said

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12130288

[Ggcc]

Devon Funds executive chairman Paul Glass said


Seeing Hrdlicka sell was "quite staggering" , Glass said

It's a really interesting decision for a new CEO to dump every share she owns


Investors are paying over 32 times forecast earnings for this stock so it's not one you want to see any negative surprises from," Glass said

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12130288






I have to agree with Paul glass it surprised me as well and notice at 5pm. I still think we have a longterm upward share price, but what she did does not sit well with me and only 2 months into the head job.

[winner69]

That Glass guy has been a downer on A2 for a while now ......wonder how Harbour view the sell down ....they probably think it’s just water off a ducks back and a non-event

Jeez that Jayne going to get another $5m plus one day (and then even more rights next year) .....hurdle is a non event.

Maybe A2 remuneration packages is what punters should be enraged about.

[couta1]

That Glass guy has been a downer on A2 for a while now ......wonder how Harbour view the sell down ....they probably think it’s just water off a ducks back and a non-event

Jeez that Jayne going to get another $5m plus one day (and then even more rights next year) .....hurdle is a non event.

Maybe A2 remuneration packages is what punters should be enraged about. That Herd Licker woman is going to cost me some serious profit loss this coming week, I'd be pleasantly surprised if that doesn't occur.

[blundoon]

"The sale of the above mentioned OrdinaryShares has been made by Ms Hrdlicka inorder to: (i) fund the tax obligations relatingto the recent automatic exercise of timebasedrights; and (ii) fund commitmentsmade by Ms Hrdlicka prior to her taking upemployment with the Company".

What part of this announcement do (some) people not understand? All of it I would suggest. Our new CEO was on a FY17 salary package of A$8.1M with Qantas/Jetstar, and took a significant haircut to move to a2. During her tenure with Qantas she had made "commitments" based on expected income that still needed to be funded after leaving. End of story. Btw; she has stated that her family have been drinking a2 milk for years - she's a believer!

It never ceases to amaze me that some retail investors are actually influenced by the analysts - who may have their own vested interests - shorting a stock for example. I put them in the same category as the ratings agencies Standard & Poors, Moodies, and Fitch who completely failed the market with regards to the GFC.

As for Motley Fool: "concerns that it's growth could be challenged due to a maturing Chinese infant formula market"?! I believe that with the reversal of the '1 child' policy, and a growing middle class - currently the same size as the whole US population, the IF market is going to expand significantly. Another factor is that apparently many Chinese women are not big fans of breast feeding their babies. Analysts. Pffft!

[minimoke]

That Herd Licker woman is going to cost me some serious profit loss this coming week, I'd be pleasantly surprised if that doesn't occur.Only if you planned to sell this week. Remember - unless you are a trader/ shorter, this is a long term play. Focus on next week. (unless you have some cash rattling around - in which case it could be a great time to top up.)

In a years time we will wonder what the fuss was about.

[Beagle]

Only if you planned to sell this week. Remember - unless you are a trader/ shorter, this is a long term play. Focus on next week. (unless you have some cash rattling around - in which case it could be a great time to top up.)

In a years time we will wonder what the fuss was about.

Some people, (probably in an attempt for pecuniary gain as they are short) are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. This will all blow over by mid this afternoon...remember you read it from me first :)

[bull....]

the real price action will happen on the asx , looking at the attention this stock has had on social media over the weekend overseas is huge. one point i have noted is there is a lot more negative comments now than there used to be say a year ago on these boards.

[winner69]

the real price action will happen on the asx , looking at the attention this stock has had on social media over the weekend overseas is huge. one point i have noted is there is a lot more negative comments now than there used to be say a year ago on these boards.

Human nature mate ....when punters aren’t winning (or even losing money) they get grumpy and blame everything under the sun except their own judgement

[777]

"The sale of the above mentioned OrdinaryShares has been made by Ms Hrdlicka inorder to: (i) fund the tax obligations relatingto the recent automatic exercise of timebasedrights; and (ii) fund commitmentsmade by Ms Hrdlicka prior to her taking upemployment with the Company".

What part of this announcement do (some) people not understand? All of it I would suggest. Our new CEO was on a FY17 salary package of A$8.1M with Qantas/Jetstar, and took a significant haircut to move to a2. During her tenure with Qantas she had made "commitments" based on expected income that still needed to be funded after leaving. End of story. Btw; she has stated that her family have been drinking a2 milk for years - she's a believer!

It never ceases to amaze me that some retail investors are actually influenced by the analysts - who may have their own vested interests - shorting a stock for example. I put them in the same category as the ratings agencies Standard & Poors, Moodies, and Fitch who completely failed the market with regards to the GFC crisis.

As for Motley Fool: "concerns that it's growth could be challenged due to a maturing Chinese infant formula market"?! I believe that with the reversal of the '1 child' policy, and a growing middle class - currently the same size as the whole US population, the IF market is going to expand significantly. Another factor is that apparently many Chinese women are not big fans of breast feeding their babies. Analysts. Pffft!


So how successful was she with Jetstar while she was there?

[davflaws]

That Herd Licker woman is going to cost me some serious profit loss this coming week, I'd be pleasantly surprised if that doesn't occur.

That is sexist and quite disrespectful.

[bull....]

"The sale of the above mentioned OrdinaryShares has been made by Ms Hrdlicka inorder to: (i) fund the tax obligations relatingto the recent automatic exercise of timebasedrights; and (ii) fund commitmentsmade by Ms Hrdlicka prior to her taking upemployment with the Company".

What part of this announcement do (some) people not understand? All of it I would suggest. Our new CEO was on a FY17 salary package of A$8.1M with Qantas/Jetstar, and took a significant haircut to move to a2. During her tenure with Qantas she had made "commitments" based on expected income that still needed to be funded after leaving. End of story. Btw; she has stated that her family have been drinking a2 milk for years - she's a believer!

It never ceases to amaze me that some retail investors are actually influenced by the analysts - who may have their own vested interests - shorting a stock for example. I put them in the same category as the ratings agencies Standard & Poors, Moodies, and Fitch who completely failed the market with regards to the GFC crisis.

As for Motley Fool: "concerns that it's growth could be challenged due to a maturing Chinese infant formula market"?! I believe that with the reversal of the '1 child' policy, and a growing middle class - currently the same size as the whole US population, the IF market is going to expand significantly. Another factor is that apparently many Chinese women are not big fans of breast feeding their babies. Analysts. Pffft!


you amaze me too. falling in love with analysts on the other side of the fence

[minimoke]

That is sexist and quite disrespectful.
Dont fret, Herds were one of the first to embrace Diversity and anyone can lick them. Male, Female, LGBTQIF, Any race - usually just depends on who gets in first.

[Muppett]

What part of this announcement do (some) people not understand? All of it I would suggest. Our new CEO was on a FY17 salary package of A$8.1M with Qantas/Jetstar, and took a significant haircut to move to a2. During her tenure with Qantas she had made "commitments" based on expected income that still needed to be funded after leaving. End of story.


Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

No one has mentioned what she did for Qantas/Jetstar or Woolworths.
Jetstar has always been garbage, so that is no claim to fame.

[couta1]

That is sexist and quite disrespectful. I don't get the sexist bit, if it was a man it would be that Herd Licker man. As far as disrespectful goes I find her actions of selling ALL her ordinary shares after being in the job 5 minutes quite disrespectful to long term holders.

[Muppett]

I don't get the sexist bit, if it was a man it would be that Herd Licker man. As far as disrespectful goes I find her actions of selling ALL her ordinary shares after being in the job 5 minutes quite disrespectful to long term holders.

It isn't sexist.
Whoever davflaws is has some issues.
Leave it and let it be their problem.

[winner69]

So how successful was she with Jetstar while she was there?

Jayne was a Qantas high flyer ...Alan Joyce thought the world of her

And until last Friday A2 shareholders thought she was the bee’s knees and never said a bad word about her or doubted her abilities. Wow how things change

[777]

Jayne was a Qantas high flyer ...Alan Joyce thought the world of her

That is what mean. Glad to see the back of her.

[minimoke]

$1.8m @$12.37 in whatever a "LA" trade so far today.

[Muppett]

Jayne was a Qantas high flyer ...Alan Joyce thought the world of her

And until last Friday A2 shareholders thought she was the bee’s knees and never said a bad word about her or doubted her abilities. Wow how things change

I have doubted her from day one.
As I have already said: pay peanuts get monkeys. She had a large handover period and now in the job for 2 months and she still has not sorted out the UK problem and the dumb idea of a NZ roll out.

Even if she turns things around and the SP goes North, she will be gone inside 2 years.
She's not in for the long haul.

[couta1]

I have doubted her from day one.
As I have already said: pay peanuts get monkeys. She had a large handover period and now in the job for 2 months and she still has not sorted out the UK problem and the dumb idea of a NZ roll out.

Even if she turns things around and the SP goes North, she will be gone inside 2 years.
She's not in for the long haul. Ditto re her appointment and absolutely agree, I don't believe she has a true heart for the company like GB did, just a Trougher IMO.

[bull....]

wait till asx open , they are fuming over there might even get... a protest non buying day lol

[freddagg]

I checked out how Jaynes name is pronounced.
It is Herdliska.

[Muppett]

I checked out how Jaynes name is pronounced.
It is Herdliska.

With a European accent, Hrdlicka is pronounced: Hardlucka

[see weed]

Not to worry, all back to normal $13 by AGM in 8 weeks and how good they are doing. But in the mean time, take advantage and pick up some bargains. Let all the OMG fly on the wallers sell and let us get more:t_up:.

[Ggcc]

Not to worry, all back to normal $13 by AGM in 8 weeks and how good they are doing. But in the mean time, take advantage and pick up some bargains. Let all the OMG fly on the wallers sell and let us get more:t_up:.
I agree maybe a good time to top up as a longterm hold wait till the Aussie market opens as it may fall faster

[Beagle]

Not to worry, all back to normal $13 by AGM in 8 weeks and how good they are doing. But in the mean time, take advantage and pick up some bargains. Let all the OMG fly on the wallers sell and let us get more:t_up:.

Well said mate.

[Muppett]

Not to worry, all back to normal $13 by AGM in 8 weeks and how good they are doing. But in the mean time, take advantage and pick up some bargains. Let all the OMG fly on the wallers sell and let us get more:t_up:.

At what price will you be buying and how many?

[Sideshow Bob]

Regardless of personal commitments etc, it is just not a good look to be selling shares of a company you have just joined as CEO.

Geoffrey Babbidge and a few other execs have sold shares over recent times, the market took a bit of a breath and carried on. However different situation when had been there a long time, had a huge run in shareprice and could understand taking a little off the table.

[bull....]

Not to worry, all back to normal $13 by AGM in 8 weeks and how good they are doing. But in the mean time, take advantage and pick up some bargains. Let all the OMG fly on the wallers sell and let us get more:t_up:.

yea and if they dont give any guidance again gaboom down it plummets

[couta1]

Not to worry, all back to normal $13 by AGM in 8 weeks and how good they are doing. But in the mean time, take advantage and pick up some bargains. Let all the OMG fly on the wallers sell and let us get more:t_up:. To me it doesn't matter about returning back to $13, there are other principals at stake here, besides she has killed the current upward momentum to boot. A long term A2 bull over on hotcopper aptly summed it up for me "She has won lotto at our expense" That's my ranting over, have a nice day.

[blackcap]

That is sexist and quite disrespectful.

Are you for real? What planet do you live on. I cannot see how that is sexist and disrespectful? She is a CEO! Earns plenty and if she cannot handle such an innocent jibe then should not be in the job. Harden up snowflakes.

[Muppett]

10,000 in 1000 to 2000 lots from $11 to $12 if it gets that low;).

Thanks for stating that.
It's $11.90, down 5% as I write, so you can start to accumulate.


Spoke to soon, now $11.80 and worse to come at mid-day.......

[bull....]

im betting there will be no agm update to guidance , becvause of uncertainities around china regulation gaboom downside

[minimoke]

$11.80 struck. Good chance to see if there is any validity to "amateur hour".

[Balance]

$11.80 struck. Good chance to see if there is any validity to "amateur hour".

ATM sp is driven out of ASX.

Real market today will appear then.

Would say though that ASX fund managers do not appreciate CEOs selling without a valid reason and this one looks like an invalid reason.

[see weed]

Thanks for stating that.
It's $11.90, down 5% as I write, so you can start to accumulate.


Spoke to soon, now $11.80 and worse to come at mid-day.......


No, wait till Aussi opens then wait for uptrend, if there is one. Been through all this before, haven't we all.

[peat]

With a European accent, Hrdlicka is pronounced: Hardlucka


I checked out how Jaynes name is pronounced.
It is Herdliska.

I would've though it it was Herdlitzka

[minimoke]

ATM sp is driven out of ASX.

Real market today will appear then.

Would say though that ASX fund managers do not appreciate CEOs selling without a valid reason and this one looks like an invalid reason.I think the reason is OK. I'm just surprised she doesn't have access to other avenues to fund those pre-commitments. And that she needs to sell all shares to do so. $4m - she must have had some pretty heavy debts

[Muppett]

I think the reason is OK. I'm just surprised she doesn't have access to other avenues to fund those pre-commitments. And that she needs to sell all shares to do so. $4m - she must have had some pretty heavy debts

Do you believe her for the reasons given, tax etc ...?
If that is true, she is bad with money.
Probably then does not have a BNZ account.

[mondograss]

Presumably these are Australian tax debts that she has. The Aussies might be more understanding of the situation.

[Lego_Man]

Do you believe her for the reasons given, tax etc ...?
If that is true, she is bad with money.
Probably then does not have a BNZ account.

High income earners often gear themselves to the hilt on the basis that they'll be able to pay it back later, and can end up with quite wild swings in net worth. Personally though i'd find 5m a year quite difficult to spend, though he might have bought somewhere palatial in Sydney that needs to have debt cleared on it.

[Blue Skies]

I get the feeling this is going to be a pretty busy thread today.
From my observations it's never ended well after any senior management dumps a truck load of shares, let alone all of them.
Unfortunately blindingly obvious usually means they're not expecting them to rise, at least in the short term.

[777]

The big question is how she was entitled to such a number of shares to sell when she had hardly started the job. The directors have been too generous at the expense of shareholders.

[Muppett]

High income earners often gear themselves to the hilt on the basis that they'll be able to pay it back later, and can end up with quite wild swings in net worth. Personally though i'd find 5m a year quite difficult to spend, though he might have bought somewhere palatial in Sydney that needs to have debt cleared on it.

High net worth individuals manage to reduce their debts/tax bills ....... thru various structures, instruments and overseas holdings.
Why hasn't she?
I don't believe the reasons give, she just wants to cash out, so she can move on in her time and on her own terms, when it suits her.
If I am wrong, apologies to her, but then she is really crap with money.

[longy]

The big question is how she was entitled to such a number of shares to sell when she had hardly started the job. The directors have been too generous at the expense of shareholders.

The BOD thought she is the right person for the job. Also to compensate her for loss of income after leaving her previous role. I have no issue with CEO selling... but a large chunk when the dust is not settling down yet. A bad look and it smells off too.

[minimoke]

I don't believe the reasons give, she just wants to cash out, so she can move on in her time and on her own terms, when it suits her.
If I am wrong, apologies to her, but then she is really crap with money.
I have no reason to disbelieve the reason given to the financial markets. I do wonder why you need to sell 100% of shares as your financial recourse to repay debts when you would hopefully have other funding revenues and the assets you are selling would be expected to grow in value under your management.

[silu]

Hmm. You go away for a week completely incommunicado and all hell breaks lose. By the looks of it management didn't get a PR company to sell a story with the share sale so we are left in a vacuum rife with speculation. Not a good look for a multi-billion dollar company. Today will be knee-jerk, tomorrow will bring a clearer picture. I'm happy to stay put at the moment but my first instinct is to dump all my A2 shares for the time being.

[BlackPeter]

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.


Unfortunately - if you pay lots, you often get monkeys as well. It might be just monkeys who are a bit better in pulling the wool over the eyes of an out of their depth board. Recruiting is not easy - unless your only target is to fill the seats with warm and greedy bodies.

Look at FBU, Telecom, Fonterror - how well did all these companies do in throwing multi million dollar salaries at more lor less well presented and extremely greedy, but otherwise highly incapable managers.

Sometimes I am wondering whether the boards who waste less of their shareholders funds for overpaid greed dancers are better off.

Re Mrs Hrdlicka - the jury is still out, but selling all her shares after only a couple of months in the job is hopefully not the best she is able to do for her multimillion dollar salary. Only an incapable board could have approved this deal without realising that this will end into a PR nightmare. Only a quite incapable CEO would have accepted this deal. Why didn't she ask for cash?

If this is the best board and CEO can do .... than we just need to hope that they still have been lucky despite their incompetance and that Mrs Hrdlicka is able to perform some other CEO functions (than PR) with more sensitivity and marketing knowledge.

GLTAH ... and glad I am out.

[visionary]

I thought it was Herd-licker, and she certainly had her slurp from the herd last Friday.
I have been all-out since just before the big bounce from the low 11's, but am waiting to see what the real reason she sold for, and then I will buy in again.

Previously, I was excited to see a lady of apparent capability take the helm in a traditionally mans game, and seeing how her role could encourage other women with a can-do attitude to move into the industry. That excitement rapidly dissipated on Friday for me.

I do believe in the product, as a former Jetstar/Qantas staffer and being well aware of their strategies, moralities and the standards their organisation holds itself to I see she is comfortable trying to promote the same dog-eat-dog culture with A2. My confidence in the current is lost, she will need to show spark and some fantastic innovations in business direction (not investing in infrastructure capital when it is unnecessary is a good start) before my confidence is sparked again.

[winner69]

$11.80 struck. Good chance to see if there is any validity to "amateur hour".

What’s this “amateur hour”?

[Beagle]

Surprised by the depth of felling on here about this issue. We often get executives selling without giving a reason.

The cruel reality often with tax is that if one gets a bounce in their income one year and one chooses safe harbor with their provisional tax at one point in time both terminal tax and provisional tax chooks can come home to roost simultaneously. When the top tax rate is 47% inclusive of Medicare levy this could mean for example at an extra $4m dollar income one year results in terminal tax of 47% = $1.88m and provisional tax of the same amount. Its become something of a comedy show that people think she hasn't taken professional advice about her tax already.

[Chanchay]

Here we go, Strayan market is open, down 5%.

Good luck to all you knife catchers out there.

[RupertBear]

What’s this “amateur hour”?

Its when impulsive bears suffering from FOMO jump in quickly as soon as the market open thinking they will beat the rush :lol: Thankfully I am a reformed patient bear, :D

[Joshuatree]

What’s this “amateur hour”?

When the ASX opens you get the overreactions, treeshaking .

Hrdlicka to Hurtlocker by the looks of it :D:scared:

[Muppett]

Unfortunately - if you pay lots, you often get monkeys as well. It might be just monkeys who are a bit better in pulling the wool over the eyes of an out of their depth board. Recruiting is not easy - unless your only target is to fill the seats with warm and greedy bodies.

Look at FBU, Telecom, Fonterror - how well did all these companies do in throwing multi million dollar salaries at more lor less well presented and extremely greedy, but otherwise highly incapable managers.

Sometimes I am wondering whether the boards who waste less of their shareholders funds for overpaid greed dancers are better off.

Re Mrs Hrdlicka - the jury is still out, but selling all her shares after only a couple of months in the job is hopefully not the best she is able to do for her multimillion dollar salary. Only an incapable board could have approved this deal without realising that this will end into a PR nightmare. Only a quite incapable CEO would have accepted this deal. Why didn't she ask for cash?

If this is the best board and CEO can do .... than we just need to hope that they still have been lucky despite their incompetance and that Mrs Hrdlicka is able to perform some other CEO functions (than PR) with more sensitivity and marketing knowledge.

GLTAH ... and glad I am out.

At the 2017 AGM the Chairman David Hearn had a 24% against vote to be re-elected. Quite a high number opposing him.
Everyone else re-elected with less than 1% against.
That sums up the Board in many ways.

[davflaws]

Are you for real? What planet do you live on. I cannot see how that is sexist and disrespectful? She is a CEO! Earns plenty and if she cannot handle such an innocent jibe then should not be in the job. Harden up snowflakes.

I am absolutely for real and I live right here in Whangarei. I believe that you can't see how Couta1's original comment is sexist and disrespectful. I don't know whether the CEO's name would have been made fun of if she were a man (I suspect not), but linking a jibe about the name with the appellation "woman" was a sexist putdown.

Similarly, the admonition "Harden up snowflakes" isn't sexist, but it is a putdown. And I think that is important because here in NZ, there is a very clear connection between our propensity for "innocent" jibes and putdowns, and a whole raft of social ills.

Over 40 years of clinical experience I have come to understand that there is a slippery slope between sexist and disrespectful comments and grossly abusive language, yelling, pushing and shoving, and (ultimately) bruises and blood. And that is why I call disrespectful postings when I see them and will continue to do so

[winner69]

Its when impulsive bears suffering from FOMO jump in quickly as soon as the market open thinking they will beat the rush :lol: Thankfully I am a reformed patient bear, :D


Thanks

I reckon sanity will prevail and A2M will end UP for the day ...was nothing sinister after all

[minimoke]

I am absolutely for real and I live right here in Whangarei. I believe that you can't see how Couta1's original comment is sexist and disrespectful. I don't know whether the CEO's name would have been made fun of if she were a man (I suspect not), but linking a jibe about the name with the appellation "woman" was a sexist putdown.On other thread you'll see a man referred to a "Dreck H....." because he is.

[trader_jackson]

I remember when it was disclosed the DD had sold a few (far from a majority) of his PEB shares in the mid $1's back in the glory days for a what I think wasn't even a hundred thousand (to build a deck if I recall correctly?) it was meet with swift and intense criticism on the forum.

But "this time is different" so no worries.

[minimoke]

I remember when it was disclosed the DD had sold a few (far from a majority) of his PEB shares in the mid $1's back in the glory days for a what I think wasn't even a hundred thousand (to build a deck if I recall correctly?) .
Thats where the "to build a deck" so commonly seen nowadays originated from.

[Muppett]

I am absolutely for real and I live right here in Whangarei. I believe that you can't see how Couta1's original comment is sexist and disrespectful. I don't know whether the CEO's name would have been made fun of if she were a man (I suspect not), but linking a jibe about the name with the appellation "woman" was a sexist putdown.

Similarly, the admonition "Harden up snowflakes" isn't sexist, but it is a putdown. And I think that is important because here in NZ, there is a very clear connection between our propensity for "innocent" jibes and putdowns, and a whole raft of social ills.

Over 40 years of clinical experience I have come to understand that there is a slippery slope between sexist and disrespectful comments and grossly abusive language, yelling, pushing and shoving, and (ultimately) bruises and blood. And that is why I call disrespectful postings when I see them and will continue to do so

Have you ever sent a tweet to Donald Trump?

[Beagle]

I
Over 40 years of clinical experience I have come to understand that there is a slippery slope between sexist and disrespectful comments and grossly abusive language, yelling, pushing and shoving, and (ultimately) bruises and blood. And that is why I call disrespectful postings when I see them and will continue to do so


Seeing as you're only made 80 posts in 4 years I'll opine on this and its meant in a positive spirit.. Appreciate your perspective but its STMOD's job to handle that sort of thing. If you're deeply offended or feel a post is in breech of the terms and conditions of this site then by all means report it but I reckon from years of experience its often way better to grow a thicker skin and understand that some people will get really frustrated from time to time, its just part of being a participant in the market. I think its best some have a cup of tea and a wee nap and everyone keeps calm.

[winner69]

Thats where the "to build a deck" so commonly seen nowadays originated from.

Pretty sure it was PEB Chairman Swann who said he needed cash for a deck ......but that excuse was met with derision at the time.

[RupertBear]

I am absolutely for real and I live right here in Whangarei. I believe that you can't see how Couta1's original comment is sexist and disrespectful. I don't know whether the CEO's name would have been made fun of if she were a man (I suspect not), but linking a jibe about the name with the appellation "woman" was a sexist putdown.

Similarly, the admonition "Harden up snowflakes" isn't sexist, but it is a putdown. And I think that is important because here in NZ, there is a very clear connection between our propensity for "innocent" jibes and putdowns, and a whole raft of social ills.

Over 40 years of clinical experience I have come to understand that there is a slippery slope between sexist and disrespectful comments and grossly abusive language, yelling, pushing and shoving, and (ultimately) bruises and blood. And that is why I call disrespectful postings when I see them and will continue to do so

I find it hard to follow your logic that making fun of a persons name makes their comment sexist :confused: And I am someone that doesnt take kindly to sexist comments.

You are more than likely correct that making fun of a persons name is disrespectful but respect is earned not a given and at the moment not many of us respect her. Personally I find the nick name Herd Licker quite amusing in a non sexist way :D

opps edited due to spelling mistake!

[minimoke]

Personally I find the nick name Herd Licker quite assuming in a non sexist way :DStick a salt block into a trough and see what happens. The herd will have their heads buried in it in no time at all.

[trader_jackson]

Pretty sure it was PEB Chairman Swann who said he needed cash for a deck ......but that excuse was met with derision at the time.

Chairman was it? I probably got confused with the non stop mockery of DD at the time... Unlike PEB, hopefully this CEO isn't mocked for years to come...

I'm still waiting for ATM's CEO to provide an excuse... "prior commitments" certainly ain't one

[Beagle]

Pretty sure it was PEB Chairman Swann who said he needed cash for a deck ......but that excuse was met with derision at the time.

I reckon some people on here would still be cynical if a CEO sold some shares after 10 years at the helm because they needed the money for a relatives late stage experimental cancer treatment. Acknowledge the optics are not great but I think there's a least a decent chance the reason given is genuine what with Australia's crippling top tax rate of 47% and capital gains taxes as well !

[minimoke]

Chairman was it? I probably got confused with the non stop mockery of DD at the time... Unlike PEB, hopefully this CEO isn't mocked for years to come...

I'm still waiting for ATM's CEO to provide an excuse... "prior commitments" certainly ain't oneDD will stop the non stop mocking when his company delivers on promises and moves off its current $0.32 and heads back to $1.70 - where it was in 2014.

Hopefully this isnt the start of ATM's long slow drift down off relative highs.

[Blue Skies]

I reckon some people on here would still be cynical if a CEO sold some shares after 10 years at the helm because they needed the money for a relatives late stage experimental cancer treatment. Acknowledge the optics are not great but I think there's a least a decent chance the reason given is genuine what with Australia's crippling top tax rate of 47% and capital gains taxes as well !


To support that, there's also an argument that goes, the explanation that's been given must be genuine as they would know this would cause such a massive backlash, if any inkling of info that influenced the SP negatively was to come to light in the foreseeable future.

[bull....]

sentiment must be bad , the last few times is has bounced harder from open in aus ... must be really pissed with that share sale

[couta1]

sentiment must be bad , the last few times is has bounced harder from open in aus ... must be really pissed with that share sale I will be reducing my holding down to 10% of my portfolio total over the next while, for me that's a huge protest vote.PS-No it won't be a panic sell.

[Sideshow Bob]

Maybe she has felt so bad this morning after her daily dose of Sharetrader.co.nz, she bought them all back at 5% cheaper...……??

[Muppett]

Maybe she has felt so bad this morning after her daily dose of Sharetrader.co.nz, she bought them all back at 5% cheaper...……??

Na. The Chairman is as much to blame.
He wont be around much longer.
Jayne is counting her money while buying more lipstick for all the BS she is soon going to come out with.

[minimoke]

Jayne is counting her money while buying more lipstick for all the BS she is soon going to come out with.Hopefully its not going to be applied onto a pig

[couta1]

Na. The Chairman is as much to blame.
He wont be around much longer..
Jayne is counting her money while buying more lipstick for all the BS she is soon going to come out with. Lipstick to cover up all those snout abrasions from having an over vigorous workout in the trough over a two day period.

[davflaws]

I find it hard to follow your logic that making fun of a persons name makes their comment sexist :confused: And I am someone that doesnt take kindly to sexist comments.


"Herd Licker" isn't sexist. "That Herd Licker woman" is. And since I am about to follow Beagle's advice and have a cuppa and a lie down, "Drek Head" isn't sexist. "That Drek Head man" is.

[couta1]

"Herd Licker" isn't sexist. "That Herd Licker woman" is. And since I am about to follow Beagle's advice and have a cuppa and a lie down, "Drek Head" isn't sexist. "That Drek Head man" is. HaHa let's get all PC and Nanny state then and say "That Herd Licker person".Lol.

[peat]

Lipstick to cover up all those snout abrasions from having an over vigorous workout in the trough over a two day period.

OMG cracked me up
I think it shows she was smart in her negotiations to get the shares and I only hope she applies the smartness to the benefit of the company and shareholders. Unfortunately now she is less incentivised to do so.
However I am disappointed that she considers it not to be an attractive place to be invested , anyone with conviction should borrow or finance the holding if they had strong belief.

Not a holder but keeping an eye on things

[minimoke]

HaHa let's get all PC and Nanny state then and say "That Herd Licker person".Lol.That is a very herdest statement. Not all animal in herds are lickers. Cows do. Elephants dont. Please refrain from making anti-herd generalisations - it will only get you in trouble.

[blackcap]

"Herd Licker" isn't sexist. "That Herd Licker woman" is. And since I am about to follow Beagle's advice and have a cuppa and a lie down, "Drek Head" isn't sexist. "That Drek Head man" is.

Herd licker woman is stating a fact. I believe the CEO is a woman. If he was a limp wristed man for example, then calling him a Herd Licker woman might be sexist in my book, but stating a fact (the CEO is a woman) is not sexist. Anyway lie down and have a cup of tea. I have and it was great :)

[minimoke]

They say a week is a long time in politics. A couple of days must be an eternity for a share selling CEO. The "blue eyed boy" (oops I mean "eyed person" - or is that offensive to non-sighted people?) one moment, vilified villain the next.

[RupertBear]

"Herd Licker" isn't sexist. "That Herd Licker woman" is. And since I am about to follow Beagle's advice and have a cuppa and a lie down, "Drek Head" isn't sexist. "That Drek Head man" is.

I dont see either as sexist to be honest. But we all see things from different perspectives so we may need to agree to differ on this one. :)