PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[Beagle]

Had my renal ultrasound yesterday and kidneys and bladder looked good. Cytology results are also back and is also good.

The Rat is starting to get more perky after these two positive results and is cautiously hopeful his cystoscopy scheduled for 31 July will also be good...so was pondering on the way home...as you do...
I specifically asked the question of the Waitemata DHB (in my complaint e.mail in late June as to lack of follow up action following my admission of 1 June for haematuria), whether they would fund a CX bladder test for me.
Their response, (from a DHB that was part of the pilot programme using the CX bladder test), was to send me for cytology, then renal ultrasound and then cystoscopy.
1. Hmmm, does that mean they aren't using the CX Bladder test at all as I would have thought a one-off presentation with Haematuria at the Waitemata DHB would have been a classic case for the use of CX Bladder ?
2. When the DHB registrar doctor called me about my compliant I asked again, whether the CX Bladder test was appropriate for my circumstances he said he's never heard of the CX Bladder test...WTF ?
3. As mentioned previously, my doctor also in the Waitemata zone has also never heard of it.
4. I am the accountant for a client who owns a large medical building in the Waitemata DHB area and have got to know one of the senior doctors there quite well so I thought I'd ring him yesterday.
By quite remarkable coincidence he'd had a haematuria himself last year so we have a good open and frank discussion about things. He was aware of the CX Bladder test, (a strong sense of relief flowed over me), but quickly went on too say you can't beat the established treatment methodology that's been prescribed too me, which is exactly the procedure he followed for himself.

If this is how it is in N.Z. in a DHB area that was part of the original pilot programme its difficult to draw any other conclusion that the company has a very steep uphill battle to gain widespread commercial use of this procedure, especially in a volume sufficient to generate considerable commercial success.
Based on the recommendations I've received from a number of health care professionals I'll be following the time honoured and long established method even if it is unpleasant to have a camera on a tube shoved up your dick.

This is not an attempt to dis the test procedure nor am I short PEB. Please DYOR and decide for yourself what weight, if any, to place on this feedback from the coal-face.

Disc, no longer a holder of this stock.

[Beagle]

Edited this.

[NZSilver]

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/company/pacific-edge
http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/report/pacific-edge

[Beagle]

Thanks guys. I'm cautiously hopeful my one-off haematuria was nothing more than a bad urinary track infection as it cleared up quickly with antibiotics and all this subsequent testing is looking good.

[couta1]

Thanks guys. I'm cautiously hopeful my one-off haematuria was nothing more than a bad urinary track infection as it cleared up quickly with antibiotics and all this subsequent testing is looking good.
Sounds like you've got it beat mate, excellent as a suggestion start taking 500mg-1000mg of vitamin C daily split into 2 doses this will prevent any further UTIs as it keeps the acidity level of the urine at a bacteria unfriendly level:cool:

[Longhaul]

Has anyone got any idea of what the top 100 holders are doing? I recall an earlier post that suggested they were holding by and large.

[robbo24]

Has anyone got any idea of what the top 100 holders are doing? I recall an earlier post that suggested they were holding by and large.

Hate to ruin Balance's secret or create extra paperwork for PEB staff, but the Companies Act requires companies to maintain a register of shareholders. It is a matter of public record. Ask them for the latest version.

[Harvey Specter]

Hate to ruin Balance's secret or create extra paperwork for PEB staff, but the Companies Act requires companies to maintain a register of shareholders. It is a matter of public record. Ask them for the latest version.Exactly. How else would you be able to make unsolicited low ball offers to shareholders?

Q - are they allowed to charge costs? Having said that, Computershare/Link should be able to dump a report into PDF in a second and email it.

[robbo24]

Exactly. How else would you be able to make unsolicited low ball offers to shareholders?

Q - are they allowed to charge costs? Having said that, Computershare/Link should be able to dump a report into PDF in a second and email it.

Companies are allowed to have registers maintained by a third party. In the case of nzx listed companies that is either compu of link.

Not sure about costs, I would fathom a guess that the answer is no. Just stick to the position it's matter of public record and you shouldn't have to pay, if it comes up.

[Xerof]

In my experience, the registries charge the company a nominal fee, which is usually passed on to the person requesting the information.

[NT001]

Since it's a matter of public record, is there anything to stop someone getting the list and posting it on this thread once in a while? Would be of fairly wide interest among this group, I think.

[blackcap]

Since it's a matter of public record, is there anything to stop someone getting the list and posting it on this thread once in a while? Would be of fairly wide interest among this group, I think.

If you have a good relationship with your broker he will email it to you in excel format.... very easy.

[robbo24]

If you have a good relationship with your broker he will email it to you in excel format.... very easy.

You don't need a broker.

Look up Pacific Edge on the companies office website, even that tells you to just ask the company.

[blackcap]

You don't need a broker.

Look up Pacific Edge on the companies office website, even that tells you to just ask the company.

I know robbo24 but sometimes its easier asking your broker.. "please give me the top 100 for x y z companies" and you get the lot on one excel spreadsheet in your inbox. Saves having to contact said companies... :)

[NT001]

That's good to know, BC. I'm somewhat of a newbie here but I don't recall seeing such lists posted, and there could be some kind of caveat on posting them publicly rather than in response to a specific request from an individual who is interested. Possibly this section in the Privacy Act may have some application here:


Principle 3


Electronic transmission of personal information from register


Personal information in a public register shall not be made available by means of electronic transmission, unless the purpose of the transmission is to make the information available to a member of the public who wishes to search the register.

The Privacy Commissioner is also able to issue rules/guidelines applying to specific holders of registry files.

[robbo24]

That's good to know, BC. I'm somewhat of a newbie here but I don't recall seeing such lists posted, and there could be some kind of caveat on posting them publicly rather than in response to a specific request from an individual who is interested. Possibly this section in the Privacy Act may have some application here:


Principle 3



Electronic transmission of personal information from register



Personal information in a public register shall not be made available by means of electronic transmission, unless the purpose of the transmission is to make the information available to a member of the public who wishes to search the register.

The Privacy Commissioner is also able to issue rules/guidelines applying to specific holders of registry files.










An interesting contention, but one that should not be considered in isolation.

'Postability'


Indeed, s 2 of the Privacy Act 1993 states that "public register has the meaning given to it in section 58."

Section 58 arguably extends to a shareholder register, owing to the further definition under that section: "public register means—(a) any register, roll, list, or other document maintained pursuant to a public register provision..."

However, even if we assume that a shareholder register is included, Principle 3 (that you quote from s 59) would be absurd unless it was intended to apply only to the agency who holds the information.

The reason I say this is because: why only include a prohibition on the electronic transmission of such information? To take it a bit further, it would be ok to use printed leaflets to distribute the information, notwithstanding the fact it is to the public?

Further, I think ss 60 & 62 appear to cure the contention that once you get the information that you're not allowed to post it to the forums:

Section 60 provides [emphasis added]:


Application of information privacy principles and public register privacy principles to public registers

(1) Subject to subsection (3), the agency responsible for administering any public register shall, in administering that register, comply, so far as is reasonably practicable, with the information privacy principles and the public register privacy principles.

(2) Every person shall, so far as is reasonably practicable, comply with principle 2 of the public register privacy principles.

(3) Where any information privacy principle or any public register privacy principle is inconsistent with any provision of any enactment, then, for the purposes of this Part, that enactment shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, prevail.

So, in subsection (1) we can see that only an agency must reasonably comply with Principle 3. Meanwhile, only humans and organisations with a legal persona (companies, etc) must reasonably comply with Principle 2.

Lastly, s 62 provides:


Enforceability of principles
The public register privacy principles do not confer on any person any legal right that is enforceable in a court of law.

In conclusion, get it, post it, don't lose sleep over it.

Costs


An agency may charge reasonable costs. Given that the information is all computerised, I would say the costs are de minimus and should be free. Just my view.


Principle 4


Charging for access to public register
Personal information shall be made available from a public register for no charge or for no more than a reasonable charge.

[robbo24]

So, we all just say "yes, we want info" and bingo!

(Being naive and sarcastic here, but just proves how easy it is to circumnavigate laws at times) ;)

The long and short of it is this: If you're running something like the Personal Property and Securities Register then Principle 3 applies to you.

If not, don't worry about it because the law was not drafted to care about someone as insignificant as you.

[BlackPeter]

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/company/pacific-edge
http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/report/pacific-edge

Thanks for the link .. but how can they (Edison) call this research? No new information or analysis whatsoever;

[NZSilver]

Thanks for the link .. but how can they (Edison) call this research? No new information or analysis whatsoever;

yeh I agree - its pretty crap.

This is the most interesting and worrying post I have seen in a while - from Roger (many thanks for sharing your personal experiences)


Had my renal ultrasound yesterday and kidneys and bladder looked good. Cytology results are also back and is also good.

The Rat is starting to get more perky after these two positive results and is cautiously hopeful his cystoscopy scheduled for 31 July will also be good...so was pondering on the way home...as you do...
I specifically asked the question of the Waitemata DHB (in my complaint e.mail in late June as to lack of follow up action following my admission of 1 June for haematuria), whether they would fund a CX bladder test for me.
Their response, (from a DHB that was part of the pilot programme using the CX bladder test), was to send me for cytology, then renal ultrasound and then cystoscopy.
1. Hmmm, does that mean they aren't using the CX Bladder test at all as I would have thought a one-off presentation with Haematuria at the Waitemata DHB would have been a classic case for the use of CX Bladder ?
2. When the DHB registrar doctor called me about my compliant I asked again, whether the CX Bladder test was appropriate for my circumstances he said he's never heard of the CX Bladder test...WTF ?
3. As mentioned previously, my doctor also in the Waitemata zone has also never heard of it.
4. I am the accountant for a client who owns a large medical building in the Waitemata DHB area and have got to know one of the senior doctors there quite well so I thought I'd ring him yesterday.
By quite remarkable coincidence he'd had a haematuria himself last year so we have a good open and frank discussion about things. He was aware of the CX Bladder test, (a strong sense of relief flowed over me), but quickly went on too say you can't beat the established treatment methodology that's been prescribed too me, which is exactly the procedure he followed for himself.

If this is how it is in N.Z. in a DHB area that was part of the original pilot programme its difficult to draw any other conclusion that the company has a very steep uphill battle to gain widespread commercial use of this procedure, especially in a volume sufficient to generate considerable commercial success.
Based on the recommendations I've received from a number of health care professionals I'll be following the time honoured and long established method even if it is unpleasant to have a camera on a tube shoved up your dick.

This is not an attempt to dis the test procedure nor am I short PEB. Please DYOR and decide for yourself what weight, if any, to place on this feedback from the coal-face.

Disc, no longer a holder of this stock.;

Im really unsure about how this is all going to pan out - im suspicious uptake maybe very very slow, yes great technology but there have been many great technologies in the past that have ended up floundering, my worry is that PEB commercialisation and adoption is not hitting the targets its meant to. I think anymore average news and the SP will bottem out - as this company is still making a loss and may not be making a profit for a long time.

Its going to be interesting where PEB is in 3 and 10 years time, and how much money they will need from shareholders between now and then.

[winner69]

Thanks for the link .. but how can they (Edison) call this research? No new information or analysis whatsoever;

Peter -There is a full report/analysis underneath all this. Just not released publicly yet. Prob need to get those who asked for it to be done to see it first

No worries though ....valuation will be in excess of $1.70 (or within cooee)

Anyway what you expect for free

[Beagle]

I speculate one of the biggest hurdles for the company in America surrounds the issue of how litigious they are over there.
Someone presenting with the symptoms like I did can have a number of causative possibilities so their health care professionals, (just like the Waitemata DHB are doing for me) are legally obligated to check them all out.
A simple CX bladder test doesn't provide any feedback on kidney condition and further there's the issue that from as legal point of view medical professionals will need to be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the CX bladder test is at least as reliable as the established methodology I'm following to avoid potential multi-million dollar lawsuits from possible cases of misdiagnosis.

Further, it almost goes without saying that I'm well capable of paying for a CX bladder test myself but when several medical professionals recommend following the established testing methodologies how many people are going to bother arguing ?, I'm not. I really struggle to see how the company is going to get commercial traction within a reasonable timeframe at a commercially reasonable cost, hence my decision to sell.

[Whipmoney]

This is the most interesting and worrying post I have seen in a while - from Roger (many thanks for sharing your personal experiences)

Im really unsure about how this is all going to pan out - im suspicious uptake maybe very very slow, yes great technology but there have been many great technologies in the past that have ended up floundering, my worry is that PEB commercialisation and adoption is not hitting the targets its meant to. I think anymore average news and the SP will bottem out - as this company is still making a loss and may not be making a profit for a long time.

Its going to be interesting where PEB is in 3 and 10 years time, and how much money they will need from shareholders between now and then.


Correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding PEB undertook several pilot programmes with three seperate DHB's around the country (including the Waitemata DHB). I presume the intent of these programmes was to gain some form of acceptance/approval from the respective DHB's (whether explicit or even implicit at this time) and to increase awareness of the CXBladder product with the various Urologists/Patients involved.

Aside from this I don't believe there has been any formal attempt at marketing this product directly to Doctors/Urologists in NZ. Whilst the product originated from the NZ market its likely that PEB identified very quickly identified that the addressable market for PEB in NZ is very small (both in absolute and comparative terms) and as such it would be a waste to put direct sales guys on the ground running around and selling the product/concept to the various Urologists in NZ.

Again (from my understanding) all of PEB's direct marketing/sales to date has been in the US market where there is a large addressable market. Whilst I don't know all the details it seems that PEB has been doing this at multiple levels, including:

a) The Medicaid/Medicare (CMS) level.
b) The insurance / Network provider level (e.g. Fedmed..)
C) At the Urology Associations level (e.g. various Large Urology Groups or Lugs).
D) At the Urology Practice level (by way of sales people on the ground).

Correct me if my interpretation/understanding of any of the above is wrong however given the above approach then it would make complete sense that some random Doctor/Urologist in Waiemata (or any New Zealand town/city for that matter) hasn't yet heard of CXBladder, and to be honest this doesn't phase me as long as they're continuing to make inroads into the US market.

[enzed staffy]

from Roger "I speculate one of the biggest hurdles for the company in America surrounds the issue of how litigious they are over there. "

NZ is no different - whilst we may not have litigation we have multiple avenues of complaint that are not toothless or painless for the subject of the complaint.
Whilst I agree that the above issue may impede use of the test for primary cancer diagnosis or exclusion, the high specificity of it would seem to make it ideal for the avoidance of 6 monthly screening cystoscopy for many years after the initial detection and treatment. Even if it only halved the number required.

[MAC]

There are a few on this thread that do just seem to lack some perspective and/or expect a ridiculously early outcome;

Pacific Edge have very clearly and consistently told us that they anticipate a market share of 10% in the US to be achieved after 5 years time. That represents 1 urologist in 10 coming on board and using Cxbladder in 5 years time from now, yes that's five years from now.

Urine based bladder cancer tests have been used by clinicians within the US for over 10 years and insurers have been paying those bill’s for over 10 years. For Cxbladder to enter the market with superior tech, it initially becomes a matter of taking a little market share off the incumbent competition and then, because Cxbladder is superior to cytology, expanding and achieving that 10% market penetration 5 years later.

In New Zealand we have a differently structured health system, urine based diagnostic tests are not entrenched as they are in the US, if even used at all, and Pacific Edge must start from scratch.

The NZ health system is not as commercially accountable to insurers as in the US, and there is less focus on optimising long run patient care value outcomes. Pacific Edge are doing the correct thing in working with the HIH in this respect and over time that should change.

As investors, we should not expect every urologist to adopt Cxbladder, Pacific Edge don’t, they expect 10% of them to do so, and they have allowed a full 5 years for that in the US, possibly longer for New Zealand.

Try some patience folks, you will feel better, go away enjoy your life, come back in five years,

[GRIFFIN]

I agree MAC and the present share price may well be over valued as well, may be in 2 years time with some good sales picking up it will be worth 70+.

[Tsuba]

Try some patience folks, you will feel better, go away enjoy your life, come back in five years,

I agree MAC. Get outside and enjoy the sun, feed the chooks or something else that has a bit more value in life than procrastinating over that capital gain you are dreaming of. ;)

[MAC]

Not at all Griffin, a company that goes commercial and aim’s to achieve US$100M in gross revenues in five year’s time is a company will enormous financial potential and significantly more than most.

Along with all the IP, the patents, the operational laboratories and the on the ground sales force, that potential and associated forward revenue stream has a high value, and PEB is very much undervalued at this point in time.

[blackcap]

Not at all Griffin, a company that goes commercial and aim’s to achieve US$100M in gross revenues in five year’s time is a company will enormous financial potential and significantly more than most.

.

What capital (isation) would you be prepared to pay now, for an enterprise giving you $100m in gross revenues in 5 years time?

[Bobcat.]

What capital (isation) would you be prepared to pay now, for an enterprise giving you $100m in gross revenues in 5 years time?

What capital (isation) would you be prepared to pay now, for an enterprise promising (with no track record of delivering promised sales) $100m in gross revenues in 5 years time?

[winner69]

I am confused about this five years time

Is it the same five years time as a year or so ago .......or a different five years time

[blackcap]

What capital (isation) would you be prepared to pay now, for an enterprise promising (with no track record of delivering promised sales) $100m in gross revenues in 5 years time?

I was being generous Bobcat :) but thanks for improving my version. Under my scenario I would be prepared to pay less than $238m.

[Beagle]

What capital (isation) would you be prepared to pay now, for an enterprise promising (with no track record of delivering promised sales) $100m in gross revenues in 5 years time?

Exactly... and what are the odds that there will be at the very least one, perhaps more capital raisings to help to try and meet that sales objective ?
The question I asked myself when I sold is this, is there a better time to take a stake in this company ? i.e. when its provided some reasonable evidence of commercial progress, perhaps contemporaneously with a future capital raising ?
I know its a very small sample size of a few healthcare professionals I've dealt with and its difficult to see the big picture / helicopter view when you're stuck at the coalface but nonetheless I'd like to see more evidence of commercial traction before my perception of the risk-reward situation fits my investment criteria a little more comfortably.

[NZSilver]

I am confused about this five years time

Is it the same five years time as a year or so ago .......or a different five years time

Potentially its still five years time in five years time, or four years time, meaning from now it could be four years time, five years time, nine years time or even ten years time, or there is never a time....

[MAC]

We may consider also that at present we all talk about a 10% market share and perhaps we may all soon change our vernacular as this represents a percentage of annual US cystoscopies. It arises from the Pacific Edge market analysis performed in 2011.

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/143330.pdf

Edison have just advised us that Pacific Edge “is also preparing to launch line extension Cxbladdertriage in Q314 as an additional tool for urologists. The market opportunity for Cxbladderdetect in the US alone is greater than NZ$600m.”

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/report/pacific-edge

This suggests that this NZ$600M opportunity is a subset of the ‘bladder cancer urine test only market’ as determined by their UK and US based analysts. The Cxbladder(triage) would be an additional subset.

If hypothetically Pacific Edge as the provider with the disruptive technology and with the best clinically performing bladder cancer urine test on the market ultimately achieves a 25% share of that NZ$600M subset, then that represents NZ$150M in revenues. Add to that the revenues of Cxbladder(triage) and Cxbladder(predict).

Although some might argue that a best in breed product could achieve a 50%+ percentage, and take a dominent market leader position, who knows.

The Edison report will certainly be an interesting read later in the year.

[Schrodinger]

Not at all Griffin, a company that goes commercial and aim’s to achieve US$100M in gross revenues in five year’s time is a company will enormous financial potential and significantly more than most.

Along with all the IP, the patents, the operational laboratories and the on the ground sales force, that potential and associated forward revenue stream has a high value, and PEB is very much undervalued at this point in time.

Thats a rediculous assetion. Maybe if it was a US company I would agree, but I think this is wishful thinking at best.

[Tsuba]

blatant ramping. Give it a break, mate.

What about all your sadsack mates constantly knocking it. :cool:

[Minerbarejet]

In response to the five year questions: I think this has been pointed out on several occasions that it is first full five years of commercial trading which started April 1 2014 and will end 31 March 2019.
At this point if they only have 99 million per annum the company will be deemed a complete failure, everyone will get laid off and the directors will get a severe tongue lashing, labs will close, relationships will end, years of patient research and development will be down the dunny. This will be followed by flagellation and a period of penance by all concerned on Campbell Island in midwinter (NZ Time)
Really, they have only just begun and you lot have them written off already.

[Tsuba]

Really, they have only just begun and you lot have them written off already.

A common trait of no life sadsacks Miner.

[Schrodinger]

In response to the five year questions: I think this has been pointed out on several occasions that it is first full five years of commercial trading which started April 1 2014 and will end 31 March 2019.
At this point if they only have 149 million per annum the company will be deemed a complete failure, everyone will get laid off and the directors will get a severe tongue lashing, labs will close, relationships will end, years of patient research and development will be down the dunny. This will be followed by flagellation and a period of penance by all concerned on Campbell Island in midwinter (NZ Time)
Really, they have only just begun and you lot have them written off already.

It didnt start on 1 April 2014. I think you will find they talked about $100M beginning mid 2013 with their first sales guys running around and said it starts mid 2013 not mid 2014.

[Minerbarejet]

It didnt start on 1 April 2014. I think you will find they talked about $100M beginning mid 2013 with their first sales guys running around and said it starts mid 2013 not mid 2014.
PEB's first FULL financial year of commercial trading runs from April 1 2014 to March 31 2015. If they started mid 2013 then it is not a full year and is not included in the estimated projection. Its a long way off anyway whichever way you want to look at it, a few months and a few million dollars isnt going to make a lot of difference.

[winner69]

PEB's first FULL financial year of commercial trading runs from April 1 2014 to March 31 2015. If they started mid 2013 then it is not a full year and is not included in the estimated projection. Its a long way off anyway whichever way you want to look at it, a few months and a few million dollars isnt going to make a lot of difference.

But a year (or two) makes a big difference on MACs and the to be Edison valuation of $1.70

[Schrodinger]

PEB's first FULL financial year of commercial trading runs from April 1 2014 to March 31 2015. If they started mid 2013 then it is not a full year and is not included in the estimated projection. Its a long way off anyway whichever way you want to look at it, a few months and a few million dollars isnt going to make a lot of difference.

You may think that shifting of goal posts has no effect on valuation but a few investors might view that as a sign. Again very interested in the numbers and the clock is ticking

[Minerbarejet]

Thought you would have been back in again by now Snap. Dont think it will go much lower do you?:)






Disc: probably based on an erroneous assumption.

[gypsy]

Well said Miner

[Minerbarejet]

not interested in buying any more PEB until the murky waters are a bit clearer.....
I do know, through my own research, that not everything has or is going to plan but I suppose it rarely does.I have it on good authority that murky waters become much clearer if they are not stirred.

[Tsuba]

I have it on good authority that murky waters become much clearer if they are not stirred.


There you go Snaps it's all your fault. ;)

[Dentie]

Actually the clarity of the water can totally depend on where the water supply is coming from.
In PEB's case the water supply shareholders are being feed is very murky... is this a temporary thing or will the water supply get so discolored that it turns into a sewer.
The problem with PEB is no one knows what is happening up stream.
The other problem with murky water is you can not see the crocodiles or sharks until it is too late.

The problem with AIR is no one knows who has their finger on a missile...
The problem with FSF is no one knows who isn't cleaning things properly...
The problem with KMD is no one knows what the weather is going to do...
The problem with RYM is no one knows when an outbreak of ? might occur...
The problem with MRP is no one knows whether the rain is going to stop...
The problem with PRC is no one knows when an explosion might occur...
The problem with KIP is no one knows when another big earthquake may hit...
etc etc etc.....

The fact is, all PEB are trying to do is help their fellow humans with a neat piece of technology. It is not their fault that influential referrers like Urologists and DHB's and the like don't want to embrace such technology (at this early stage at least). One can only wonder why that might be .....

Snapiti, rather than continuously criticise PEB for their commercial shortcomings (in your opinion only!), why not start criticising these influential people for not putting patient's interests ahead of their own. After 25 years business experience, I can attest that unless people/businesses/Governments start putting the interests of the people they serve first - they will continue to struggle within the bigger picture. It has been firmly my experience that when you put the other person's interests ahead of your own, you will always win in the end!

I am sick and tired of hearing this continuous drivel that you and others keep spouting out on these boards. There are so many self proclaimed experts and guru's etc on here that think they know it all - all based on historic knowledge of course. The fact they are still trying to make their wealth on the NZ sharemarket speaks volumes....

I haven't seen one business yet that has managed to execute their plan to perfection - and anyone that understands business knows things are dynamic and change daily for all sorts of reasons. To read yesterday's comments by some about how PEB haven't managed to execute their plan and they have missed targets etc etc just made me laugh.

I have full confidence in what PEB are doing - am invested well into the top 100 - and will remain there, like the rest of the "smart money" appears to be doing. Any company needs that stability from its loyal shareholders - the rest is just noise and helps create liquidity for those who don't really know why they were there in the first place.

The cream can only be suppressed for a short time .... eventually it rises to the top. If PEB stay suppressed, it won't be through their doing. I won't be losing sleep either way.

Have a great weekend folks...

[Minerbarejet]

Actually the clarity of the water can totally depend on where the water supply is coming from.
In PEB's case the water supply shareholders are being feed is very murky... is this a temporary thing or will the water supply get so discolored that it turns into a sewer.
The problem with PEB is no one knows what is happening up stream.
The other problem with murky water is you can not see the crocodiles or sharks until it is too late.You left out pirhanas, you
know those little fish that nibble around the edges until the water turns red. They reckon they taste like snapper.

[nextbigthing]

Dentie thanks for your post, it serves as a great reminder for me not to spend too much time on sharetrader...

[couta1]

I must say the SP has been pretty resilient of late hugging that 75c level perhaps that is fair value for now?

[Dentie]

Dentie thanks for your post, it serves as a great reminder for me not to spend too much time on sharetrader...

Yep - and Snapiti's reply just reminded me the of same thing.

Again...it's easy to be "historically" wise. His wise remarks are the outcome of his own belated research - which he seems to have done AFTER he sold out. Tells me he was one of those who were buying in on the wave of hysteria as we rocketed from .50c to $1.58 in a week. Crazy stuff!! Question is ... when will he start to buy in again ... now - in "knowingful" anticipation ... or when the sales are in - after the value has already been priced in?

[MAC]

I must say the SP has been pretty resilient of late hugging that 75c level perhaps that is fair value for now?

Fair value is not determined by share price Couta it's determined by valuation.

“In the short run, the market is a voting machine but in the long run, it is a weighing machine.” - Benjamin Graham

[Whipmoney]

But honestly if you don't believe the company has failed to execute it's plans you need to read the companies announcements from the very beginning.
Austrailia failed
New Zealand failed
Spain failed
Europe failed
USA to early to tell but there is a theme appearing
Trying to secure a joint venture partner failed.

Whilst it is a great product for human kind it is not the first product to be successfully developed and marketed in it's field.
So taking the moral high ground approach is stretching it a bit don't you think.

Snapiti - Interesting that you say they have "failed" i.e. in the sense of a binary outcome (success/failure) when they are still only in the early stages of their commercialisation process.

If you were expecting to them achieve 10% penetration in 12 months then I think you that this means that you have failed in the DYOR department as it isn't really physically possible for any bio-tech (or more specifically cancer diagnostic assay) company.

I'm not sure about the other countries but it seems to me that it is the USA which matters. "Failing" may be one way to describe their current state in this market, although this would be only speculation on your part as you don't have the current sales figures in front of you.

The fact that they've got any sales at all in the US is somewhat of a promising sign, particularly if these people turn out to be repeat users and end up discussing their findings with others in their LuG.

I'm not naive enough to think that there isn't still a huge probability that PEB could fail completely (i.e. unable to make it to break-even) however to write them off 12 months into their commercialisation process shows that you are rather naive yourself.

[Dentie]

I think you should read more and write less dentie.... if you did so you would know I bought my original holdingS @ just over 50 cps.
I posted similar research findings as posted today when the share price was $1.70...... which is when I sold a large part of my holdings.(240% GAIN)
I then waited for confirmation of poor sales traction in the USA then sold the rest of my holdings(@ open of trade that day for 95 cps(90% GAIN).
Have re bought @ 70 cps and sold most of those @ 87 cps since...(25 % GAIN)
Very happy with my PEB investment so far and very happy to be on the side lines at the moment waiting for confirmation of sales traction.
Happy to pay more for the shares if sales traction is confirmed.

Nothing new here as I have openly posted the above in previous posts.

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.
Love makes you blind.

Do you rehearse some of this stuff you trot out time after time ... or do you use it for purposes of self-justification?

I've just done a bit of reading ... here's a quote from your post #5719...

"Whilst improved I dont believe the companies fundimentals or likely hood of success has tripled in value(as the current share price would indicate) since I bought at 50cps so I have sold 1/3 of my initial investment @$1.60 p/s ..."

I wouldn't call 1/3 a large part and I certainly wouldn't say $1.70 = $1.60 either. That is a 6% difference in accuracy.

Consistency doesn't always equal credibility.

Can't be bothered reading any further....

[Minerbarejet]

Well it looks like Bobcat will be back in by now.:)

[Tsuba]

He will be hoovering shares up all over the place today. ;)

[skid]

I would be sick and tired of hearing the truth if I did not want to hear it too.

Why would you laugh about a company that has not been able to fully execute their plan.
Sounds painful to shareholders to me.


I do agree with you that a lack of uptake from so called professionals is the main barrier to this great product.

But honestly if you don't believe the company has failed to execute it's plans you need to read the companies announcements from the very beginning.
Austrailia failed
New Zealand failed
Spain failed
Europe failed
USA to early to tell but there is a theme appearing
Trying to secure a joint venture partner failed.

Whilst it is a great product for human kind it is not the first product to be successfully developed and marketed in it's field.
So taking the moral high ground approach is stretching it a bit don't you think.

The general information I have received,is that its imperative that PEB does secure a joint venture--This is very important in the US market--It is very ,very difficult to go it alone---This is the key--If they fail to do this in the long run,it will be very difficult for them to succeed.
The scientists have come up with a good product.
It is now the job of PEB to market this product---They need someone with the clout to push this product and reassure the medical profession that it will not disappear in a year or two.
Its a shame, but the medical profession is not always about helping people--Its often about business first.

[Beagle]

The general information I have received,is that its imperative that PEB does secure a joint venture--This is very important in the US market--It is very ,very difficult to go it alone---This is the key--If they fail to do this in the long run,it will be very difficult for them to succeed.
The scientists have come up with a good product.
It is now the job of PEB to market this product---They need someone with the clout to push this product and reassure the medical profession that it will not disappear in a year or two.
Its a shame, but the medical profession is not always about helping people--Its often about business first.

I reckon that sum's the situation up very well.

[Bobcat.]

Well it looks like Bobcat will be back in by now.:)

Not yet. I'm no longer confident that 70c will hold given PEB's shoulder has now been breached (or more accurately, its 'knee' at 72c earlier this month, with 69/70 being last month's 'foot').

I'm adopting a more conservative strategy with this one - buying only if latest resistance (currently 75c) is breached.

Discl: not holding (yet).

[Minerbarejet]

The general information I have received,is that its imperative that PEB does secure a joint venture--This is very important in the US market--It is very ,very difficult to go it alone---This is the key--If they fail to do this in the long run,it will be very difficult for them to succeed.
The scientists have come up with a good product.
It is now the job of PEB to market this product---They need someone with the clout to push this product and reassure the medical profession that it will not disappear in a year or two.
Its a shame, but the medical profession is not always about helping people--Its often about business first.It would be very remiss indeed if someone didnt point out that your discovery is of utmost importance and PEB should be advised forthwith, possibly by email.
Im sure they would appreciate your input to help get things sorted out.
Do you have any contenders for the JV role? It might help even more if you could point them in the right direction.

[psychic]

It would be very remiss indeed if someone didnt point out that your discovery is of utmost importance and PEB should be advised forthwith, possibly by email.
Im sure they would appreciate your input to help get things sorted out.
Do you have any contenders for the JV role? It might help even more if you could point them in the right direction.

lol classic. Just blew beer out my nose reading that.

[geo]

It would be very remiss indeed if someone didnt point out that your discovery is of utmost importance and PEB should be advised forthwith, possibly by email.
Im sure they would appreciate your input to help get things sorted out.
Do you have any contenders for the JV role? It might help even more if you could point them in the right direction.


Sarcasm they say is the lowest form of wit, or an ironical remark or taunt. Whatever I love it.

[robbo24]

I have some ideas too:

1) Door to door test sales
2) Go on Dragon's Den

[winner69]

I have some ideas too:

1) Door to door test sales
2) Go on Dragon's Den

Probably in day to fat touch with Energy Mad about how the door to door is going

Sounds good idea though - sample on the spot and payment by mobile eftpos on the spot.

[Dentie]

Probably in day to fat touch with Energy Mad about how the door to door is going

Sounds good idea though - sample on the spot and payment by mobile eftpos on the spot.

Yeah - could start by doing a citywide radio ad appealing for those with red (ish) pee to hang a note on their front door advising of such. Then the door to door sales people would know which doors to bang on. That would save them a lot of time - every door would be a sale.

[blackcap]

Yeah - could start by doing a citywide radio ad appealing for those with red (ish) pee to hang a note on their front door advising of such.

What about beetroot eaters?

[Dentie]

What about beetroot eaters?

Given the accuracy of CXBladder...it would no doubt be proven to be a "negative" test....$500 in the bank...a happy customer...then onto the next door & repeat, repeat, repeat!

[BlackPeter]

Absolutely agree with the sentiments of the posts between MACs and mine (take caution:scared:). Just thought that it should be possible to get some sort of numerical value for the SP and tried with some old fashioned NPV-analysis.

So I thought - lets be really optimistic and assume that PEB makes it into the top 10 of biotech companies (world-wide). Picked 4 out of the top 10 (Google for top 10 BioTech companies, take the first 3 and number 10 if you want to use my numbers) and found that they have in average a 17.5% annual profit growth rate (not bad ...) and a 25% net margin (not bad, either).

Than I took the 100 Mio sales revenue PEB proposes for 2018 and applied from there the growth rate as stated above. No (or only minor) profit for the earlier years.

I request a return of 16 % (given, that it is still a high risk proposition - remember, the overwhelming majority of all biotech companies do not make any profit, but yes, PEB might be one of the winners - or not?).

Entering these data into a simple NPV function (try it yourself) returns a NPV of 70 cts per share. Slightly more, if you assume already some positive NPAT in 2017.

Question - is any of my above assumptions unreasonable - or why want people to pay so much more for the share?

Just give me some better numbers and I redo the calc.

Discl: Do not hold, but watch .... and as always, DYOR

Amazing how much can happen in just 7 weeks ... I can't remember a constructive response on above post (in late May 2014), but lots of beating up for my suggestion that 70 cts might be a quite optimistic valuation of PEB. Some people even said that I'm coming from a different universe ... and I don't think they meant at the time that my (upper limit) valuation was too high.

Well, if I come from a different universe, than it appears we managed to merge these universes in record time.

Any proposals if & when PEB is likely to bottom out?

Discl: Don't hold - and please - don't take my (very) optimistic upper value as gospel ...

[croesus]

Agree Black Peter.
I bailed at $1.30 from memory, left 40 k on the table, but still up 30k approx. on cost.

Very disappointed in lack of communication from D.D , to shareholders...

I have a mate who is 140 k down the toilet, and no doubt there are some big players with way more of a book loss

[skid]

It would be very remiss indeed if someone didnt point out that your discovery is of utmost importance and PEB should be advised forthwith, possibly by email.
Im sure they would appreciate your input to help get things sorted out.
Do you have any contenders for the JV role? It might help even more if you could point them in the right direction.

This has obviously gotten under your skin MB--Im assuming you dont agree?

I believe they are becoming all to aware of this,and lets just hope they make some headway on getting on board with someone,if this is the case.

The American market is not ripe for the picking as some seem to believe.

[Minerbarejet]

Meanwhile back over at Cellmid ASX: CDY .028 some punters on Hot Copper are looking forward to royalty payments from Pacific Edge based on extra sales personnel being hired.

[Minerbarejet]

This has obviously gotten under your skin MB--Im assuming you dont agree?

I believe they are becoming all to aware of this,and lets just hope they make some headway on getting on board with someone,if this is the case.

The American market is not ripe for the picking as some seem to believe.Skid, do you really believe that after all this time, planning, research, development, selection and forward thinking, establishing goals and doing their utmost to meet them, building relationships, signing up providers, bringing more products to commercialization - that they havent thought about this matter and have just been standing around waving a placard with Over Here written on it. Becoming aware! Some of you people really sell things short.
If you believe that then you should send that email pronto
Noah Fence
Thats just the way I see it and will remain that way until PROVEN otherwise.

[MAC]

It’s always good when you are invested into a positive demographic trend.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/803670

If the number of US Urologists is expected to decline by 29% by 2025 when the number of bladder cancer patients is increasing at 3% p.a, then it may very well create a tailwind for Cxbladder diagnostic tests over significantly more labour intensive invasive procedures.

[Dentie]

Agree Black Peter.
I bailed at $1.30 from memory, left 40 k on the table, but still up 30k approx. on cost.

Very disappointed in lack of communication from D.D , to shareholders...

I have a mate who is 140 k down the toilet, and no doubt there are some big players with way more of a book loss

It is only through people "bailing" Croesus that has helped cause the SP to drop. If those premature disbelieving "bailers" were instead believing sincere "holders" - the buyers would have no stock to buy. Or, in other words, if Supply did not outstrip Demand then the price would be more stable and upright. Don't want to sound harsh, but if for whatever reason one wants to "bail" and the timing is wrong - there is going to be a price to pay. I am genuinely sorry for your mate who lost $140k.

I've noted this before...if you draw a line under the SP from about Sept 2012 through to Nov 2013 through to where it is now - (IMVHO) it is pretty much on a sensible growth trajectory in line with developments and achievements. The aberration (madness?) between Oct 2013 and February 2014 is simply a demonstration of those ever lurking traders trying to make a fast buck by speculating. Only trouble is, when the market catches up (as it always does) ... its the ones left trying to catch the falling knives that get cut up the worst. As the old saying goes ... if you want to live by the sword - you have to be prepared to die by the sword. Ruthless but true. Again (IMVHO) PEB is not a traders stock.

I am still happy holding - but will certainly have some questions ready for the AGM.

[Dentie]

Dentie, it has been said many times on here that PEB is not a trading stock, but there are MANY (includibg myself) who would sincerely disagree with you. If it isn't a trading stock, do you really think it would have gone over your "sensible" growth line of 50-70 cents over the past 9 months? Momentum and swing traders OWNED this stock over that time! Westpac jumping in while it was falling below 90 was just another big trader to step in as well, probably made a killing trading that bounce off 68. You can believe it isn't a trading stock all you want, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and ****s like a duck...

Hi there Moosie....lovely day for ducks down here today.

Your answer has very ably demonstrated/confirmed the point I was trying to make....which is, long term investors don't use a company's stock as a short term financial whore to make money for themselves. Traders do that. Traders do not have the same interest in the long term financial wellbeing of a Company that investors do (in fact they don't care about the wellbeing of a company - period!). They are simply going in and out of a company's stock at the whim of other traders who have a contrarian view at any one time. I am sure you have quoted Ben Graham and Buffet etc - both of whom are investors - not traders. I have read the "intelligent investor" but have yet to read the "intelligent trader".

In my view, traders are nothing more than market manipulators - just as in currency trading. The fact that 97% of all currency trading is done by traders/speculators is absolutely frightening! I wonder what the ratio is for stock market trading?

[blackcap]

Hi there Moosie....lovely day for ducks down here today.

Your answer has very ably demonstrated/confirmed the point I was trying to make....which is, long term investors don't use a company's stock as a short term financial whore to make money for themselves. Traders do that. Traders do not have the same interest in the long term financial wellbeing of a Company that investors do (in fact they don't care about the wellbeing of a company - period!). They are simply going in and out of a company's stock at the whim of other traders who have a contrarian view at any one time. I am sure you have quoted Ben Graham and Buffet etc - both of whom are investors - not traders. I have read the "intelligent investor" but have yet to read the "intelligent trader".

In my view, traders are nothing more than market manipulators - just as in currency trading. The fact that 97% of all currency trading is done by traders/speculators is absolutely frightening! I wonder what the ratio is for stock market trading?

And the irony is this: without traders there would not be a market for stocks and thus no intelligent investor either. In a way they both need each other to survive :)

[MAC]

And the irony is this: without traders there would not be a market for stocks and thus no intelligent investor either. In a way they both need each other to survive :)

Agree with that blackcap, traders offer opportunities for investors when buying or exiting over longer time frames.

Dentie's relevant point is more in respect of Pacific Edge having many key fundamental elements in its favour, a leading technology, a superior product to any in the market, urologist numbers are falling away and Pacific Edge have a product which is a clinically better than what they presently do and a labour saving methodology.

Unlike some entirely spec stocks, the company has a product with good efficacy to offer into an established clinical market.

A two year overlay chart of XRO and PEB reveals, I think it is fair to say with a smile, that traders can't yet tell the difference between pissing in a plastic sample bottle and accounting software.

I put this down to a lack of analyst coverage, but that may well change over the coming months as they come on board, and the market should thus then have a better valuation reference for stock picking and value investing, let’s see.

[Dentie]

And the irony is this: without traders there would not be a market for stocks and thus no intelligent investor either. In a way they both need each other to survive :)

Yep - I absolutely agree with you BC...one provides liquidity for the other.

Was just stating my opinion - was not trying to say either are wrong. I guess, in some sort of way, I was trying to say that not all stocks are appropriate for trading all the time. For me, those young companies that are trying to get stability in their market as they try and grow by gaining a decent amount of market share (& thus a fair market valuation) shouldn't have their share price ravaged by traders who are simply trying to make as much money as quickly as possible. This type of activity could easily make or break the future of a company - which would be unfortunate.

Sorry MAC - must have been typing at the same time.

[winner69]

Dentie said - the point I was trying to make....which is, long term investors don't use a company's stock as a short term financial whore to make money for themselves.

Seems Mr Swann et all and no doubt several of the long term investors on this site thought that ridiculously high prices in excess of $1.50 was a good time to cash up some of their holdings (maybe in some cases to cover most of the cash they have actually given to PEB) ..... whores?

[Dentie]

Dentie said - the point I was trying to make....which is, long term investors don't (shouldn't?) "generally" use a company's stock as a short term financial whore to make money for themselves.

Seems Mr Swann et all and no doubt several of the long term investors on this site though that ridiculously high prices in excess of $1.50 was a good time to cash up some of their holdings (maybe in some cases to cover most of the cash they have actually given to PEB) ..... whores?

Yeah - fair point Winner ... should've worded that more accurately. Mind you, as we are aware - CS et al are not the only ones who do this.......Handley & Co come to mind here!

[winner69]

The real investors who have supported PEB are those who have actually put cash into the company's coffers

For those investors the average price paid has been 20.7 cents. As at March 2013 it was only 17 cents odd but last years cap raisings raised the average cost)

So even at 72 cents those investors still have a big smile on their face

All other action besides what has actually gone to the company has have just been punters trading amongst themselves - not really 'supporting' the company per se, just trading prices in the hope of making a buck

Disc: PEB got $15k of my cash in the last raising. I hope they put it to good use. I was fortunate that markets work in such a funny way somebody gave me heaps more than $15k for the shares I got for giving them cash.

[Dentie]

The real investors who have supported PEB are those who have actually put cash into the company's coffers

For those investors the average price paid has been 20.7 cents. As at March 2013 it was only 17 cents odd but last years cap raisings raised the average cost)

So even at 72 cents those investors still have a big smile on their face

All other action besides what has actually gone to the company has have just been punters trading amongst themselves - not really 'supporting' the company per se, just trading prices in the hope of making a buck

Disc: PEB got $15k of my cash in the last raising. I hope they put it to good use. I was fortunate that markets work in such a funny way somebody gave me heaps more than $15k for the shares I got for giving them cash.

You have that correct - just about to the exact amount!

Well done to you Sir.

[winner69]

A two year overlay chart of XRO and PEB reveals, I think it is fair to say with a smile, that traders can't yet tell the difference between pissing in a plastic sample bottle and accounting software.



Be interesting what you come up in a years time with a PEB / Rakon chart overlay

Might appear to be unrelated but a lot of commonality (even from an 'investor' perspective)

[Tsuba]

Got a general question here. Are the people offering 56 shares at two cents below the current price trying to manipulate the price down so to speak.

[blackcap]

Got a general question here. Are the people offering 56 shares at two cents below the current price trying to manipulate the price down so to speak.

Its pre-open. Check out XRO and other stocks. Bids are often a lot higher and offers a lot lower. Just normal practice ensuring you get the opening market price on the open.

[Tsuba]

Thank you for that. I am just intrigued by the game that the share market appears to be.

[Minerbarejet]

Thank you for that. I am just intrigued by the game that the share market appears to be.Probably the remainder from a parcel that someone sold at 72 - price adjustment can be made on the parcel without incurring extra brokerage.

[777]

Thank you for that. I am just intrigued by the game that the share market appears to be.

Would hardly call it game. It is common practice in most exchanges around the world both at opening time and closing time. Check out 4.45pm to 5.00pm this afternoon.

[GRIFFIN]

Ouch and not much support on the buy side.

[Wolf]

Any thoughts on the reason for the drop?

[bull....]

Any thoughts on the reason for the drop?

there are very few buyers - price will head lower as the previous prices probably didnt reflect fundamentals.

[couta1]

Well Peb has officially won my losing horse race by being the first stock in my portfolio to hit a 50% paper loss now I can truly identify with Buffet and his quote. If you can't stand to see a stock drop 50% in value then you shouldn't be in the stock market, looks like I've passed that test but she's not an easy one to pass I might add:cool:

[Tsuba]

Seriously couta, wtf

Buffett didnt invest in **** like peb nor did he expect his quotes to be applied to **** like peb by people like you.

Start investing in blue chips, do your FA, learn finance.

Don't come on here spouting ****.

What a ray of **** sunshine you are not to mention a **** nice person.

[Bobcat.]

Previous support at 69/70 is broken. It's likely that 70c will now become a resistance level.

This stock is in dire need of a positive announcement w.r.t. sales, and it's a very long way to November.

[Tsuba]

And Moosie is loving it. ;)

[JohnnyTheHorse]

*waits for snapiti to pop back in*

What we looking at for support BC? I'm hitting on 65, 60 and 55 (all psych resistance points). 50 is pretty massive.

Watch for the hammer below the bollinger bands for a dead cat bounce again.

Traders be trading, and PEB be a prime candidate...

But Dentie says it isn't a traders stock :confused:

[Bobcat.]

What we looking at for support BC? I'm hitting on 65, 60 and 55 (all psych resistance points). 50 is pretty massive.



I'm seeing the mid 50's as my next entry point...although if we get some very large volume north of that, I will probably lift my bid.

For now, I'm staying out. Ever since it broke through 75c on its way back down from 93c, the chart has not looked good for buying.

...or even for holding (sorry folks).

BC

[Goldstein]

It's pretty courageous trading with the SP still falling.

With the macro climate moving against growth stocks and the fact that PEB may not issue any information for a few months, I'm not sure we've seen the bottom yet.

I'm looking to re-enter this stock, but I'm not quite ready yet. I'm interested to hear other people's strategy. I'm considering 55c as this is within 10% of a major support.

[Dentie]

But Dentie says it isn't a traders stock :confused:

In my opinion Johnny - it's not. But that doesn't mean the self confessed traders (or should that be gamblers?) won't have a crack at trading it. Some will trade on anything that moves....

However, a quick glance at the depth suggests there are a good number of "traders" still trying to exit PEB - or are they investors who are - in Balance's words - feeding the ducks?. I am sure there are some who will have their mops waiting.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

In my opinion Johnny - it's not. But that doesn't mean the self confessed traders (or should that be gamblers?) won't have a crack at trading it. Some will trade on anything that moves....

However, a quick glance at the depth suggests there are a good number of "traders" still trying to exit PEB - or are they investors who are - in Balance's words - feeding the ducks?. I am sure there are some who will have their mops waiting.

A good trading stock is something that is volatile. PEB is very volatile. Therefore PEB is a good trading stock.

[Tsuba]

Disc - not holding nor looking to trade. I don't enjoy watching others lose money either btw...

Yes I believe you but others, I think, do get joy out of others pains.

[Tsuba]

Far out. This thing is dying tragically. Looks like I might have to get down to the AGM afterall for a heart to heart with Darling.

Maybe just for your piece of mind you should. Rather than getting info second hand or by listening to an online broadcast that could be interpreted wrong by you. Just a thought NG.

[Minerbarejet]

I agree but in addition I think you need to factor in unprecedented level's of IPO's in the growth and technology sector so far and many, many more in the pipeline and the fact that a lot of this money that chases these sort of stocks is hot money. There's only a limited amount of capital prepared to invest in speculative growth and technology stocks so with unprecedented supply and limited demand, what does that suggest the price will do in the short term ? I liken it to the exact opposite of the Auckland housing market.Yes, would agree with that, things getting a bit thin with all the IPOs and people bailing to get into the next big thing. Then they will be bailing that IPO to get back into PEB.
Keeping some of my powder dry until things settle down.
( or up preferably).:)
Trust everything is ok in the waterworks dept, Roger, sounds as if you are by your post having no mention.

[Minerbarejet]

I have research nmp22 product, many month ago, they are 10 years ahead of PEB.
They also went it alone with the likes of user programme trials and only achieved revenue of $4.5m by the end of their 4th year of trading in the US.
They were then bought out by a large pharmaceutical company in 2005(from memory) and it is hard to gauge the performance of the product since.... the share price of the company that bought nmp22 is no higher now than it was then but that could be for many reasons.
My question to the PEB bulls is how can anyone justify the company stance of $100 m in revenue in 5 years which is about 20 x the performance of a similar product, with a similar sale's strategy and in the same market.
Sure PEB looks to be a slightly better product but 20 x better than the already established product........
I would encourage all who were thinking of an investment in PEB to research everything they can about nmp22.
This will at least give you a proven record of the start up prospects of products in this field.
here's a brief run down on nmp22.
US user programs started in 98-99
First US sales 2001
FDA approval 2002
revenue of $4.5m 2005
I have not been able to obtain Maritechs nmp22 sales for 2006-2007. Very hard to find details on Maritech as it was delisted off the nasdaq after being bought out by Iverness.

please do your own research
I am pretty sure Iverness bought Maritech(developers of nmp22) in 2007 and then Iverness sold the rights to nmp22 to Alere in 2008.50% for cytology, 10% for Nmp22, 10% for Fish, 10% for cxbladder still leaves 20% for any others willing to claim superiority to cytology while PEB establishes itself as the best adjunct to cystoscopy available so fa la ti do.
Its not like they are trying to corner the market and anyway last year you were convinced that 30 to 40 % was quite on the cards.
Good to see you are catching up with some research. (TIC)
Keep it up
Cheers
Miner

[Beagle]

Yes, would agree with that, things getting a bit thin with all the IPOs and people bailing to get into the next big thing. Then they will be bailing that IPO to get back into PEB.
Keeping some of my powder dry until things settle down.
( or up preferably).:)
Trust everything is ok in the waterworks dept, Roger, sounds as if you are by your post having no mention.

Thanks, yeap all good, feeling 100%, all tests coming back normal. One last precautionary test to do next week, flexible cystoscopy next Thursday, really "looking forward" to that:eek2:

[nextbigthing]

people bailing to get into the next big thing.

I'm not sure whether I should be excited or scared

[Minerbarejet]

come on miner cant you do better than this.....the least I would expect from you is to try and prove my research wrong.
Do you believe in the 100m in 5 years time fairy tale ?
If you do why? and how can cx bladder beat the performance of a similar product, marketed the same way in the same market by 20 x ?
anyone....... please help minor debunk snapiti's research.A. I dont feel obliged to prove anything to anybody.
B. You have a bee in your bonnet about this 100 million in 5 years, its a goal, something to aim for, may be more, may be less, if you think I'm going to stand around five years from now, doing my bun because they only made 60 million or so, sorry, not going to happen.
C. We, being those that actually own shares, are moving on with a superior product, a development, a new frontier, all part of an evolution into a market that is not the same as it was. There are more patients and less urologists. With the developments worldwide in all manner of hi tech medical research the market is probably more open to new technology. I really cant say if the marketing is carried out in the same manner, not being interested in researching Matritechs methods, but suspect it would be on a par if not better.
D. I could probably be considered to have a bee in my bonnet that PEB will do quite well in the long term. They have my support albeit in a very miner capacity.:)

[MAC]

A. I dont feel obliged to prove anything to anybody.
B. You have a bee in your bonnet about this 100 million in 5 years, its a goal, something to aim for, may be more, may be less, if you think I'm going to stand around five years from now, doing my bun because they only made 60 million or so, sorry, not going to happen.
C. We, being those that actually own shares, are moving on with a superior product, a development, a new frontier, all part of an evolution into a market that is not the same as it was. There are more patients and less urologists. With the developments worldwide in all manner of hi tech medical research the market is probably more open to new technology. I really cant say if the marketing is carried out the same manner, not being interested in researching Matritechs methods, but suspect it would be on a par if not better.
D. I could probably be considered to have a bee in my bonnet that PEB will do quite well in the long term. They have my support albeit in a very miner capacity.:)

Yes, the risk of prosperity is quite understated by that US$100M goal.

[psychic]

I have research nmp22 product, many month ago, they are 10 years ahead of PEB.
They also went it alone with the likes of user programme trials and only achieved revenue of $4.5m by the end of their 4th year of trading in the US.
They were then bought out by a large pharmaceutical company in 2007(from memory) and it is hard to gauge the performance of the product since.... the share price of the company that bought nmp22 is no higher now than it was then but that could be for many reasons.
My question to the PEB bulls is how can anyone justify the company stance of $100 m in revenue in 5 years which is about 20 x the performance of a similar product, with a similar sale's strategy and in the same market.
Sure PEB looks to be a slightly better product but 20 x better than the already established product........
I would encourage all who were thinking of an investment in PEB to research everything they can about nmp22.
This will at least give you a proven record of the start up prospects of products in this field.
here's a brief run down on nmp22.
US user programs started in 98-99
First US sales 2001
FDA approval 2002
revenue of $4.5m 2005
I have not been able to obtain Maritechs nmp22 sales for 2006-2007. Very hard to find details on Maritech as it was delisted off the nasdaq after being bought out by Iverness.

please do your own research
I am pretty sure Iverness bought Maritech(developers of nmp22) in 2007 and then Iverness sold the rights to nmp22 to Alere in 2008.

Pleased to see you doing and sharing a bit of research at last Snapiti. You must be wanting to buy again...

Matritech (including NMP22) was sold to Inverness, now Alere, for $36m (in shares). After paying for Employee costs and one thing or another, the net proceeds to Matritech Shareholders was expected to be around $10m.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/inverness-medical-innovations-agrees-to-acquire-matritech-inc-58578232.html

Not much eh!

So, if Cxbladder is "only a slightly better product" then we have the mcap well wrong...

Or was the writing maybe on the wall even then? I don't know, perhaps someone could comment.

But is Cxbladder only 'slightly better"?

Have another read of the comparative results.

If you had BC, which would you choose? Seriously.

Go back to your research notes and look at NMP22 false positives.
Does it replace cytology? Could it have replaced cystoscopy?
Is the test as robust?

Is it reasonable to compare probable CXbladder sales targets to NMP22 when you consider that the market for biomarkers was perhaps in its infancy? Imagine how much harder it must have been then. And then Certndx came along with all it's claims - then abandoned when proof of clinical utility was questioned under the new CMS codes.
(sales 1.0m, 4.2m, est14.2m 2011-2013)

Sadly, the science is well beyond me, but good luck getting your head around it all.

[Minerbarejet]

Did you know Miner;

There are roughly 9,000 urologists in the US. A paper presented to the AUA last year suggested that there would continue to be a net loss of urologists from the sector as fewer professionals enter into training. Yet, the number of cancer patients is rising at a rate of 3% p.a.

By 2019 when PEB expect to achieve their US$100M goal, the market may be 15% larger and there may well be 13% fewer urologist, leaving the remaining urologists predisposed to labour saving technologies like Cxbladder which provide for better and/or complementary clinical results then their present diagnostic procedures.

To achieve US$100M in gross revenues, Pacific Edge will require 900 urologist equivalents as cliental (10%).

To achieve profitability, Pacific Edge will require roughly 100 urologists (1.1%) over a 12 month period.

This represents a mere 8 urologist equivalents for each of the sales people recently engaged by PEDusa. That 12 month period may well be the next 12 now that those sales people have just about completed training and are coming up to speed about here.

many regards, Mac
Hi MAC
Yes it looks as if there will be a bit of a squeeze on the numbers which tightens things up nicely for PEB. I suppose eventually an equilibrium will occur, a balancing act of extremely busy urologists needing more and more tests done.
Another aspect is of course once things crank up they will need less sales force in the US and a lot of the experience could be channelled into getting the Asian side of things going. By then gastric should be about ready for commercialisation.
12 you say, crikey, things are getting wound up. Where did that come from? Dont recall seeing an announcement or anything. Convincing one urologist equivalent a month each sounds possible especially amongst 19 different and identified separate markets.
Cheers
Miner

[Minerbarejet]

Another question to ask at AGM. Where's colorectal (I bought in nearly 2 yeaes ago thinking this was going to be imminent), as well as triage? Any talk of JV as a contingency plan as well?Hi Moosie,
I think we can pretty well guarantee those questions will be asked and non price sensitive answers will be given.
Cheers
Miner

[skid]

Not being able to secure a joint venture partner in the US (to date)is indeed a worry.
It could be a catch22 situation. For PEB to be an attractive addition to the stable,Im sure these co.s would like to see some positive results and interest--but to get positive results in the big picture they need the grunt of a large co. So how much is enough?(to get a partner or buy out at a decent price)
In my research I have run across a few Israeli co.s who also had good products and managed to get a joint venture partner before entering the US market(I believe it was Johnson and Johnson) and managed to do quite well,but going it alone ,well...i wont repeat myself.

[psychic]

thanks pyschic for the update....... it can be hard to find info on delisted companies so you have done well to find the sale price of Maritech to Inverness.
My research was done many months ago..... this helped me recognise the selling opportunity $1.70 was......yes I am revisiting the research to try and justify a re entry point but the more I see the more I don't like the current price.
I am some what surprised the purchase price of Maritech was so low(35m) given Maritech's nmp22 was several years ahead of sales and developement when compared to cxbladder and Maritech also had 3-4 products like cx colorectal in the final stages of developement.
If Maritiech with nmp22, first starter advantage, $4.5m in annual sales after 4 years plus several products in the final stages of development is only worth 36m then what does that make PEB currently worth.
PEB not being able to secure a joint venture partner in the US, even after several attempt's to do so, is now looking like a huge vote of no confidence in the products commercial success or is it a vote of no confidence in the bio marker industry.
Has their been a bio marker product that has succeeded to the degree that would support PEB's claims of $100m revenue,with one product, in 5 years is very obtainable.
The sale of Maritech for $36m USD must surely bring into question PEB's current value of $220m especially given the fact that PEB are several years behind where Maritech was.
I do understand that the market for bio markers should have increased in the last decade... lets hope so but on the face of it (sales results to date) it would appear that PEB are struggling to get sales traction.

Snapiti
We went over this a month ago. Would you please stop parroting on about PEB failing to find a J/V partner. PEB approached Roche when science was in it's infancy but once they completed the test, decided to go it alone. The business is about taking this to market, not selling out. If you have evidence otherwise, please post it. You did not, or could not, last time I asked.

Comparing PEB and Matritech is just pointless IMO unless you really have a very good understanding of the Science behind both and can say one is much the same as the other. They are not.

I think you need to spend more time understanding Cxbladder, make your mind up about it's advantages , it's clinical utility and long term commercial prospects or stay out. I've said it before, this stock is not for you. There is a degree of trust that Investors need to have in PEB if the Science is not their thing. You seem to distrust them, so move on.
No offence intended

[psychic]

No , your assumption is that they had no choice.
Leave it out.

Of course nobody can post evidence of a biomarker achieving this. It has not happened yet.
But PEB have the product that will - according to it's informed research. Your opinion that it won't is is just that. An uneducated hunch

[skid]

Snapiti
We went over this a month ago. Would you please stop parroting on about PEB failing to find a J/V partner. PEB approached Roche when science was in it's infancy but once they completed the test, decided to go it alone. The business is about taking this to market, not selling out. If you have evidence otherwise, please post it. You did not, or could not, last time I asked.

Comparing PEB and Matritech is just pointless IMO unless you really have a very good understanding of the Science behind both and can say one is much the same as the other. They are not.

I think you need to spend more time understanding Cxbladder, make your mind up about it's advantages , it's clinical utility and long term commercial prospects or stay out. I've said it before, this stock is not for you. There is a degree of trust that Investors need to have in PEB if the Science is not their thing. You seem to distrust them, so move on.
No offence intended

Understanding CX Bladder and its advantages is not necessarily what will determine its long term commercial prospects--understanding the market is also a factor.

[skid]

Actually DD is on record saying they approach several companies about JV but more seriously with Roach twice and were turned down on both occasions..... so your assumption that PEB choose to go it alone is rubbish as the simple fact is they had no choice.
Still waiting for someone to post evidence of a bio marker that has achieved what PEB want you to believe is readily available $100m in 5 years.
I am not debating the science I am debating the ability to turn the science into a viable business.
I am also challenging the PEB bulls to show evidence of the how PEB intend to obtain this fairy tale revenue in 5 years..... sorry blind faith in the science does not work for me and many others I am sure.
All the research I have done indicates $100m revenue in 5 years is ludicrous.

I would actually be more concerned if PEB had turned their back on Roche and decided to go it alone as opposed to being turned down by Roche--hopefully they are still exploring that area.

[Whipmoney]

PEB not being able to secure a joint venture partner in the US, even after several attempt's to do so, is now looking like a huge vote of no confidence in the products commercial success or is it a vote of no confidence in the bio marker industry.
Has their been a bio marker product that has succeeded to the degree that would support PEB's claims of $100m revenue,with one product, in 5 years is very obtainable.

The sale of Maritech for $36m USD must surely bring into question PEB's current value of $220m especially given the fact that PEB are several years behind where Maritech was.
I do understand that the market for bio markers should have increased in the last decade... lets hope so but on the face of it (sales results to date) it would appear that PEB are struggling to get sales traction.

Yes there's been one and it went from Annual Revenue of $320k to $149m in five years (without a JV Partner).

Admittedly, it wasn't in the bladder cancer space but from my understanding it had a smaller addressable market.

[Minerbarejet]

Hi Mac,
Thats quite a team of sales people on the ground in the US. No wonder they needed a VP for sales to direct the traffic.
Much better day here today. Got the filtration system running now as well.:)
Cheers
Miner

[mbrook]

Surprising huge decline over the last month considering tiny amount of shares that are trading daily. A few thousand sold here and there hardly justifies this.

[Mista_Trix]

Surprising huge decline over the last month considering tiny amount of shares that are trading daily. A few thousand sold here and there hardly justifies this.

She's still in a downtrend.

[croesus]

Some words from management would be helpful.

I hope we are not looking at a RAK situation.

[GRIFFIN]

Ah but they needed to raise some cash then.

[Dentie]

She's still in a downtrend.

...being caused by all the sheep following that squiggly line.

We are nearly two months on from the sales figures and there has been no further advice or evidence as to the subsequent or current sales - except somebody (deliberate vagueness here!!) mentioning there were apparently 12 sales people on the ground at the moment. I would like to think they are at least earning their keep, but knowing sales people - they'll be chasing as many sales as they can get.

Will be interesting to see who is mopping up these shares and how big the shareholder list will be next time it is published. I will review my holding after I have heard what the Board has to say at the AGM - and not before.

One last bit - I do my own research like everyone says to do - but I try not to influence other holders transactions on the basis of my own opinions. If I lose, I lose - but it's all down to me. I could not stomach being part of a losing sharemarket transaction - based on someone else's research or opinion. Thanks to the sheep...I'll be looking to increase my holding shortly...but a bit more wool to shear first though!

[klid]

Why do you all seem so gobsmacked. Look at what is happening in the world... since March especially.

[MAC]

...being caused by all the sheep following that squiggly line.

We are nearly two months on from the sales figures and there has been no further advice or evidence as to the subsequent or current sales - except somebody (deliberate vagueness here!!) mentioning there were apparently 12 sales people on the ground at the moment. I would like to think they are at least earning their keep, but knowing sales people - they'll be chasing as many sales as they can get.

Will be interesting to see who is mopping up these shares and how big the shareholder list will be next time it is published. I will review my holding after I have heard what the Board has to say at the AGM - and not before.

One last bit - I do my own research like everyone says to do - but I try not to influence other holders transactions on the basis of my own opinions. If I lose, I lose - but it's all down to me. I could not stomach being part of a losing sharemarket transaction - based on someone else's research or opinion. Thanks to the sheep...I'll be looking to increase my holding shortly...but a bit more wool to shear first though!

It is a complex sector and tech to research too isn’t Dentie, there are no analysts yet, but coming soon, and the thing about market correlations is that they just serve to create distortions in individual stock valuations. A transfer of wealth over time from the fickle to the patient.

Within the NZX SciTech, I’ve XRO still well overvalued at these levels, but ATM and PEB as being considerably undervalued. At some point the current pulling the others under will release and stock picking will prevail at discounted prices.

As with ATM, the funds are probably mopping nicely up from small holders, we’ve not seen any significant SSH’s from the major PEB shareholders, and that just serves to lower liquidity for those scrambling to buy back in when they do.

[Harvey Specter]

The silence is quite deafening considering the barrage we had over the past year and a half...


Ah but they needed to raise some cash then.That's a bit harsh. The announcements were made because they had signed, what they considered, material contracts. Further to that, they raised the cash at low price, compared to the share price at that point in time, and in hind sight, they would have waited a few days before announcing the capital raising as they probably could have raised twice as much cash for the same amount of shares (actually, they were limited to $15k per person so it would have been the same amount of cash for less dilution).

[MAC]

Last time I checked mining companies were not included within the NZX SciTech.

I’m just suggesting that not all companies are valued the same when these short term type correlations occur, some will be undervalued when the dominant stock within the sector drags those stocks down, yes like PEB, ATM and others within the sector. I only research and value a few within the SciTech, I have DIL and CVT as undervalued also.

I don’t believe anyone takes advice from this forum and act solely based upon it. And, as Dentie wisely reminds us, we may share fundamental information but must do our own research, and thus make our own judgements as to investing or otherwise.

[MAC]

On the contrary, clearly my point was that Knockers have no influence on the share price, all they provide is a proliferation of self-indulged dribble that I think most reasonable viewers both completely ignore and really just think is quite pathetic.

The shame as Hancock's suggests is that many folk who have historically added much valued research and insight to this thread and forum no longer do so simply because it is unrewarding to wade through pages of proliferated negative opinion provided by those with dubious motivations.
..........

[MAC]

You two, play the ball, not the man!

MAC, do you subscribe to the theory that "the market is right until it is wrong, and even then it's right"? I know Couta does!

Ha, I'm not sure I do with that one Moosie, but I an a subscriber to "the trend is your friend until it's not", and I do like WB as he often says it best for me “price is what you pay, value is what you get” and one of my favourite of his quotes “if past history was all there is to the game, the richest people would be librarians”.

[psychic]

I posted a link to an abstract to this article a while ago, but here is a link to the full version:

Review article Sapre et al "gene based urinary biomarkers for bladder cancer"

http://www.urologiconcology.org/article/S1078-1439(13)00289-5/fulltext#copyright

Excerpts:

There is a pressing need for an accurate noninvasive test to assist diagnosis and surveillance of BCa. Urine is in direct contact with BCa cells, and hence is an ideal source for investigation of noninvasive biomarkers of BCa.
....
Cytology, the only urinary test that currently aids cystoscopy in routine follow-up of patients has high interobserver variability and poor sensitivity especially for low-grade tumors [4]. Several studies now support the cost-effectiveness of incorporating noninvasive urinary biomarkers in the surveillance of BCa [2]. An ideal noninvasive test for BCa should give a bedside result, be cheap, easy to use, reliable and accurate, and not be affected by inflammation and infection. Most importantly, it must have a high negative predictive value (sensitivity) to avoid missing tumors.
....
There are several protein- and cell-based commercial and investigational markers that have been the subject of much research, such as nuclear matrix protein 22, bladder tumor antigen, ImmunoCyt, BLCA, and hyaluronic acid/hyaluronidase, which have been extensively reviewed previously and are not discussed further here. Table 1 summarizes the current commercial and investigational urinary biomarkers in BCa. However, the performance of such cell- and protein-based tests has been too inadequate to incorporate them into routine clinical practice, primarily because they are affected by other bladder conditions such as infection, inflammation, and intravesical therapy, and this has given a way for gene-based biomarker testing in more recent times.
....
The most promising new biomarker and the closest to clinical translation is the uRNA2 assay (Cxbladder; Pacific Edge, New Zealand)
....
The lack of clinical benefit of protein- and cell-based urinary biomarkers and the emergence of high-throughput genomic platforms have given way to pursuit of gene-based profiling of biomarkers. However, the majority of these studies remain in the discovery phase, and what is now needed for clinical translation of these markers is multicenter prospective validation studies in large clinical settings with adequate scientific and statistical rigor.

[Balance]

Ha, I'm not sure I do with that one Moosie, but I an a subscriber to "the trend is your friend until it's not", and I do like WB as he often says it best for me “price is what you pay, value is what you get” and one of my favourite of his quotes “if past history was all there is to the game, the richest people would be librarians”.

Good one.

:D

[Markymarknz]

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. Picked up on sharetrader over the last couple of years and really enjoy reading the banter. I have a few bucks invested in PEB and think it is great that they are bringing innovation to what sounds like a very archaic industry.

So what is it that has compelled me to post for the first time? Well I have a friend who is my age (early 30's) who had blood in his urine. He visited the doc and was told he needed a camera up the *whistle*. He was none to pleased at the thought and as he had heard about PEB due to my interest had wondered whether he could have been given a CXBladder test.

So it ends up that he had knocked something whilst bike riding so no big concerns there. My question would be however, could my friend have been diagnosed with the CXBladder test kit instead of the invasive test he was provided? If he had whizzed in a kit and was told he doesn't have bladder cancer could the doc have concluded that he must have a minor trauma and recommend that he monitor it and if the problem persists then he should come back for further investigation?

Thanks for any insight

[winner69]

Some words from management would be helpful.

I hope we are not looking at a RAK situation.

If the dream doesn't burst into reality we are

There is something in common eh Croesus

Now we both be banned from this thread just by mentioning Rakon

[Hoop]

I'm an Archivist that works at a Library, with a BA in History and PGDip in Museum Studies. Does that mean Warren Buffett has nothing on me?

What history does do is prevent undue risks by looking at the past of Director/Owners (ie Sorehead, Dotcon etc). It also shows the performance of other companies in the same sector and how the market may treat a stock. Laugh at us all you want, but I'd rather have history than nothing at all ;)

This brings up a very interesting point.
We all know that certain market sectors have differing average P/E's..e.g companies operating within the investment, ultilities sector is known to have historical lower P/E's as opposed to the likes of the tech sector...therefore it's seems like a very prudent idea as Moosie implies, before investing in it to check the company's PE history and relate it to what it is now, ...eh?..

The other interesting point which I haven't seen mentioned here (but probably has but I've missed it due to the poster noise) ..what happens when a start up biotech becomes mainstream and changes from Biotech sector to laboratory services sector..I think the PE of the 2 sectors are very different..the Lab sectors PE is a lot lower...

I'm probably banned now too:mellow:

[Whipmoney]

thanks whip money
what bio marker was it and what company owns it...... would be keen to research it.

You'll have to pay me for my research.. My insights are free though:) it can/has been done. In fact I almost wonder if PEB are modelling themselves off these guys

[Whipmoney]

This brings up a very interesting point.
We all know that certain market sectors have differing average P/E's..e.g companies operating within the investment, ultilities sector is known to have historical low P/E's as opposed to the likes of the tech sector...therefore it's seems like a very prudent idea to check the company's PE history and relate it to want it is now, before investing in it...eh?..
The other interesting point which I haven't seen mentioned here(but probably has but missed due to the noise) is..what happens when a start up biotech becomes mainstream and changes from Biotech sector to laboratory services sector..I think the PE of the 2 sectors are very different..the Lab sectors PE is a lot lower...

I'm probably banned now too:mellow:

The P/E simply trends down as sales ramp up. Simple really... The value premium is greater for expected sales than actual sales.

[Carpenterjoe]

Word is spreading,

http://www.inspire.com/groups/bladder-cancer-advocacy-network/discussion/bladder-cancer-test-as-easy-as-buying-icecream/

[nextbigthing]

so you are full of it then
I thought this website was for sharing info and debating issue's.

Well you're wrong. It's here solely for procrastination of more important things in life coupled with the odd bit of abuse to make the member feel better about their loses.

[couta1]

Well you're wrong. It's here solely for procrastination of more important things in life coupled with the odd bit of abuse to make the member feel better about their loses.
Accurate description:cool:

[Tsuba]

If the dream doesn't burst into reality we are

There is something in common eh Croesus

Now we both be banned from this thread just by mentioning Rakon

I honestly think that comparing graphs of two totaly un related companies and insinuating that the comparison points to the future of PEB is a rather pathetic analogy made by a shallow conspiricy theory loving person.

[winner69]

I honestly think that comparing graphs of two totaly un related companies and insinuating that the comparison points to the future of PEB is a rather pathetic analogy made by a shallow conspiricy theory loving person.

Another unconstructive bit of dribble from Tsuba - well done

The 'comparison' is about investor / market behaviour -think about it.

[croesus]

Ouch Tsuba, that's a bit harsh....

( btw I have little doubt the Americans Landed on the Moon, tho I do have concerns about that Moon flag, waving .. )

[croesus]

Winner.. don't put the Genesis Research and Development Chart up for goodness sake !

[winner69]

Winner.. don't put the Genesis Research and Development Chart up for goodness sake !

Maybe the Rubicon one from 2000 would be more relevant

A lot of commonality/associations with PEB in that case - if you get my meaning seeing you been around a while Croesus me old mate

[biker]

Well you're wrong. It's here solely for procrastination of more important things in life coupled with the odd bit of abuse to make the member feel better about their losses.

Exactamundo

[Balance]

Another unconstructive bit of dribble from Tsuba - well done

The 'comparison' is about investor / market behaviour -think about it.

At this rate, W69 me-ole-mate, you will have a few of the traders jumping off the cliff!

Real risk short term to PEB's sp is not its underlying operations/businesses IMO - it is indeed about investors' and shareholders' perception.

Unlike Rakon which is in a commodity business (like most high tech non-proprietary component businesses these days), PEB is in a specialized area where it has a real competitive edge. The edge may not last forever but it is nevertheless there as of now.

Traction in sales is the big issue and it will be interesting what management and directors will say at the AGM. Eggs are being prepared to throw at Mr Swann if he cannot adequately explain his comments about 'severalm tens of thousands of tests' during 2014.

Meantime, a falling sp also has index implications.

Well done to those who bailed out - you have obviously made the right decision at this stage.

[Beagle]

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. Picked up on sharetrader over the last couple of years and really enjoy reading the banter. I have a few bucks invested in PEB and think it is great that they are bringing innovation to what sounds like a very archaic industry.

So what is it that has compelled me to post for the first time? Well I have a friend who is my age (early 30's) who had blood in his urine. He visited the doc and was told he needed a camera up the *whistle*. He was none to pleased at the thought and as he had heard about PEB due to my interest had wondered whether he could have been given a CXBladder test.

So it ends up that he had knocked something whilst bike riding so no big concerns there. My question would be however, could my friend have been diagnosed with the CXBladder test kit instead of the invasive test he was provided? If he had whizzed in a kit and was told he doesn't have bladder cancer could the doc have concluded that he must have a minor trauma and recommend that he monitor it and if the problem persists then he should come back for further investigation?

Thanks for any insight

Welcome to the forum. if you go back through my posts over the last 6 -7 weeks you'll see I'm in a similar situation to your friend. The problem with just doing a CX Bladder test is it doesn't test for any problems in your kidney's. Further, it appears medical professionals, certainly the ones I've spoken to, rate the MK1 eyeball test looking up your whizzer as being more reliable. PEB themselves say their CX bladder is complimentary to a cystoscopy, not a replacement for it.

[psychic]

Welcome to the forum. if you go back through my posts over the last 6 -7 weeks you'll see I'm in a similar situation to your friend. The problem with just doing a CX Bladder test is it doesn't test for any problems in your kidney's.
Further, it appears medical professional rate the MK1 eyeball test looking up your whizzer as being more reliable. If I thought I could avoid this unpleasant procedure scheduled for 31 July without running something other than a very minor risk, I would. The $360 cost to me is irrelevant. What matters is making absolutely sure there's nothing wrong and 90% or thereabouts success rates with CX Bladder identifying cancer isn't good enough as far as I'm concerned.
PEB themselves say their CX bladder is complimentary to a cystoscopy, not a replacement for it.

Hi Roger. Again, appreciate your perspective from the coal face on all this.

The Clinical trial results noted Cxbladder:

Detected six urothelial carcinoma not identified by cystoscopy during the clinical work-up but confirmed at the 12 month follow-up:

1 x T2 single renal pelvis.
1 x Unk multiple high grade bladder tumours.
1 x T2 single high grade bladder tumour.
3 x Renal pelvic / distal uteric tumours (detected by CT; not path confirmed).

So worth doing as well?

[Schrodinger]

See you at $0.25..

[Whipmoney]

See you at $0.25..

You said this in the DIL forum a while back (price target around $2)... Didn't happen / You're a joke.

[Whipmoney]

so you are full of it then
I thought this website was for sharing info and debating issue's.

Take it or leave it.. the company exits.

[Schrodinger]

Looking in the mirror pal?

DIL has been a stellar investment since the financial restatements hasnt it?

[Minerbarejet]

Take it or leave it.. the company exits.take it you mean exists?

[Beagle]

Hi Roger. Again, appreciate your perspective from the coal face on all this.

The Clinical trial results noted Cxbladder:

Detected six urothelial carcinoma not identified by cystoscopy during the clinical work-up but confirmed at the 12 month follow-up:

1 x T2 single renal pelvis.
1 x Unk multiple high grade bladder tumours.
1 x T2 single high grade bladder tumour.
3 x Renal pelvic / distal uteric tumours (detected by CT; not path confirmed).

So worth doing as well?

Good question. Cytology and renal ultrasound were normal test results. Also a further blood test looked good and I did the bowel screening test that Waitemata DHB are running and that's good as well. Its become clear that my one-off haematuria was the result of a urinary track infection, (I had the stinging in the end of my dick which confirmed it was a UTI) which cleared up very quickly with the appropriate antibiotics. All these tests I've done including the cystoscopy to come on 31 July, to me seem very fulsome given the original symptoms and it being a one off, and I'm feeling very jaded from all this testing which seems almost too precautionary but I'll have a think about whether to proceed with a CX Bladder test after the cystoscopy. Many thanks indeed for your reminder of the clinical trial results.

[couta1]

Roger typical NZ OTT procedures they use a hammer to crack an egg bit like sending 4 cop cars plus Search&Rescue to look for an elderly resident from Malvina Major who took a stroll one block down the street.

[Markymarknz]

Welcome to the forum. if you go back through my posts over the last 6 -7 weeks you'll see I'm in a similar situation to your friend. The problem with just doing a CX Bladder test is it doesn't test for any problems in your kidney's. Further, it appears medical professionals, certainly the ones I've spoken to, rate the MK1 eyeball test looking up your whizzer as being more reliable. PEB themselves say their CX bladder is complimentary to a cystoscopy, not a replacement for it.

Thanks for the reply Roger, yes I have read your posts over recent weeks, they are very insightful. So just to clarify, does the cystoscopy test for kidney problems?

[Beagle]

Thanks for the reply Roger, yes I have read your posts over recent weeks, they are very insightful. So just to clarify, does the cystoscopy test for kidney problems?

No it doesn't. The renal ultrasound is where they have a good look at your bladder and kidney's. They can pick up quite a bit of information from that including whether you have kidney stones. Blood tests test for kidney functionality too.

Couta1 - Yeah mate, I haven't been referring to myself as a lab rat for nothing, that's how I feel. Got an eye test too, just for good measure, does that make me a masochist LOL.
I think like most men, I prefer to get all this sort of crap over with at once.

[Beagle]

I feel like calling up Robbo to head over and give me a few good ol' kidney shots just so I can pee blood, get referred to the docs and see if they have CxBladder (and use it for good measure so they at least 1 more test on the board).

I remember I posted a chart predicting a test of 50 cents with a downside target in the 40-45 cent bracket. This was before rocket/Chatanooga choo-choo time. I'd hate for my prediction to finally come to fruition. See if I can dig it up from the archives...

I can save you from two savage beatings. 1. Don't bother getting a beating from your mate. Waitemata DHB appear completely uninterested in giving me a CX Bladder test despite me asking for one in an e.mail and again verbally in discussion with the hospital registrar.
2. Wait till it breaks 75 cents on the upside on the back of great sales results, if they're forthcoming in due course. Only time will tell if the current market cap is justified on a NPV basis of future earnings.
I've gone with my gut feel on this, albeit heavily influenced by my coal-face experience and sold out a while back.

[RTM]

Brilliant Snapiti.

[Whipmoney]

Looking in the mirror pal?

DIL has been a stellar investment since the financial restatements hasnt it?

If I recall correctly you were saying this sub $3.50. If you don't believe that a 14%+ return is good then you probably have questionable investment methodologies.

[Schrodinger]

I can assure you mine are far better than yours

[Mista_Trix]

I can assure you mine are far better than yours

He'd teach you, but he'd have to charge.

[robbo24]

He'd teach you, but he'd have to charge.

My investment strategy brings all the boys to the yard...

[psychic]

Right. I'm feeling real good about progress here, so be gentle if you are going to slam it. Us holders are feeling beat up enough already....

MAC has produced an update to the AHRQ process that we looked at earlier. Thank you MAC.

http://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/ehc/products/571/1941/bladder-cancer-non-muscle-invasive-protocol-140721.pdf

This sets the protocol for the research into biomarkers and other Bladder Cancer procedures. The goal is that biomarkers eventually replace the invasive cystoscopy (nb Roger and his doc....)

AHRQ is the Govt Agency for Healthcare Research & Quality in the US. Its recommendations will dictate coverage decisions for CMS (Public Medicare and Medicaid Insurance) and greatly influence the Vet Assn and large private Insurers which currently have Cxbladder down as investigational only. Clearly CMS and insurance coverage is a must for PEB

Adoption in the US would likely influence Europe (and maybe even Waitemata DHB.?)

Several Key questions were put to AHRQ research teams for this review. The one that interests us most asks:

K1 What is the diagnostic accuracy of various Urinary Biomarkers compared to the gold standard (Cytology, Cystoscopy and imaging)


Now, the tests to be included in this research are the FDA approved BTA, NMP22 (Alere and Bladercheck), FISH and ImmunoCyt AND
the LDT CxBladder

We know Cxbladder is all over these other tests right?

So, providing they don't dismiss the Clinical Trial evidence PEB has produced, I'm thinking AHRQ's recommendation will be the speedy adoption of Cxbladder. And we will all be grinning.... Brilliant!

Wonder how long this will take? Would be timely for PEB to produce a little more evidence right now..

[Dentie]

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/310380/profit-taking-drops-pacific-edge-share-price

[Tsuba]

SP movements are correlated across securities because of investor sentiment. The fact that you don't know that or can't admit it astounds me.

The lemming sentiment thing I am very much aware of thank you NG. :bored:

[psychic]

Sorry, I should have said that the tests to be included in the review are RESTRICTED to ones listed, not just included.
A big difference.

[winner69]

The lemming sentiment thing I am very much aware of thank you NG. :bored:

Good one - so now you can see how PEB shareprice could go the RAK way

[Balance]

Good one - so now you can see how PEB shareprice could go the RAK way

Or Apple's way.

The success of one product (along with others in the pipeline) - that's what PEB will be about.

:D

[winner69]

So, then, you admit that plotting the SP for different securities CAN be elightening, because it can show the extent to which broader factors (such as global sentiment) are having an effect? Thought so.

NewGuy - he probably finding it hard to accept this though.

Joined sharetrader in March so maybe his PEB shares cost him big bucks ....ouch

After all it seems we are all 'lemmings' anyway

[Tsuba]

Nice to see the two happy chappies above are having fun. Never assume anything guys.:bored:

[Dentie]

pretty weak response. Why don't you just respond to what i said?

Because when you do get responded to, you shut up like a book and not say a word.:t_down:

[mis chief]

Kindy nearly over for the day?

[Balance]

pretty weak response. Why don't you just respond to what i said?

Husband and wife?

:D

[Minerbarejet]

Gidday Sparky hows it going:)

[Dentie]

Well someone needed to tell him (her?)...get sick of seeing this thread get clogged up with repetitive personal swipes by NG & others that think they know it all.

[Dentie]

Hi Miner,

Just noticed the SP has raced above the red dotted line so far. Haven't they heard yet?

[Minerbarejet]

Probably not

[Minerbarejet]

with quite a few bio marker options available to the market now recognition from large government agencies is exactly what PEB needs and as the superior product should stand out like a white knight when compared to it's peers.
Lets hope this study and printed results do not take 5 years.
Thanks for the info Mac.He's turning- Snap has either bought back in or is pretty close to it. Shes going green - better get in - but do your own research first
Cheers
Miner

[winner69]

There appear's to be a few precious little bunnies bouncing around on this thread.

Your first post

I agree tsuba - there does appear to be a few (or maybe only one) precious little bunnies bouncing around on this thread

[Minerbarejet]

no not close to purchasing just responding to good informative, relative research being posted.
Have no plans on investing in PEB until the sales curve is in a steeper uptrend.... happy to pay more if this eventuates.
Ah well, worth a try!:)

Things looking a bit skinny on the sell side though for a change.

[nextbigthing]

Kindy nearly over for the day?

They get awfully grumpy if they miss their day sleeps. Load them up on sugar and send them out to buy PEB shares.

[Balance]

They get awfully grumpy if they miss their day sleeps. Load them up on sugar and send them out to buy PEB shares.

Watch them change stance when PEB's sp reverses direction.

Always good for a laugh.

[psychic]

Haha exactly. Low volume today and failed to break 70 resistance. Still bearish as anything :)

How do you see 70 as significant Moosie?.

[psychic]

Support turned resistance after the break down recently, as well as psychological number AND a big number before October last year. Only a few minor issues really, nothing serious, as usual...

When was 70 the support? Is a breakdown when it falls from 70 to 62? What is the name for the reversal now that it's gone from .62 to .70? Are there any other psychological numbers we should worry about?
And, why was .70 big last year?

All dutch to me , but entertain me with this dark science.

[Whipmoney]

Load up a 6 month chart. 68-70 was a support level during the last fall and rebound. Since it was the lowest point over the past few months, falling below that level was a breakdown to a lower low (which is now 62).

As you can see over the chart time, there is a clear cascade effect as the price bounces off new lows on oversold levels (use RSI and stochastic levels to determine this), gains, then breaks the low support to go lower again. Anyone who says this isn't a traders stock is a bit deluded as the only ones doing this and winning are... traders!

Psychologucal numbers are usually those ending with a zero, five or are highest/lowest historical trade prices and are only support/resistance because of the human minds routine of locking onto them. An example is paying $1.99 or $2.00 for a litre of gas. Which one "looks" better to you? The difference is very minimal, but we have been conditioned to believe one is much better than the other. As such, you will see lots of bids/asks clustered around these numbers at times. Psychology plays a bigger role in the market than most would care to admit: we are only human after all. Ignore it at your peril!

The Market is psychology... Either that or just a bunch of Patrick Batemans slashing at each other with axes.

[psychic]

Thanks for the full response Moosie. My point was, it has not bounced off .70 Yes perhaps .68 in June but then closed .75. I can at a stretch see someone drawing a line through .75 and saying there is something going on there (if pressed) but not at .70. Has it perhaps BURST through .68?

The reason I take issue with you over this is because it seems just negative BS. Had it been a stock you were holding, you might have equally come out gushing about the tick up of RSI, the SP rise of 6% today, and, that on a hourly pattern, positive MACD and break through of some other moving average..
Or maybe was that a wee hammer the other day with a couple of consecutive higher highs and higher lows since? Perhaps low vol but some chunky bids starting to run through too.

I just think you are raining on PEB holders parade unnecessarily. Ya know?

[psychic]

And, looking back a year ago, you can see 70 was a big resistance/support line. As such, some will still be holding from that point and may consider at a sell stop (ie cut my losses/break even/take profits/I've had enough level). History tells us a lot of things as well; numbers are just one part of this game!

No, there is not!

[Minerbarejet]

Thanks for the full response Moosie. My point was, it has not bounced off .70 Yes perhaps .68 in June but then closed .75. I can at a stretch see someone drawing a line through .75 and saying there is something going on there (if pressed) but not at .70. Has it perhaps BURST through .68?

The reason I take issue with you over this is because it seems just negative BS. Had it been a stock you were holding, you might have equally come out gushing about the tick up of RSI, the SP rise of 6% today, and, that on a hourly pattern, positive MACD and break through of some other moving average..
Or maybe was that a wee hammer the other day with a couple of consecutive higher highs and higher lows since? Perhaps low vol but some chunky bids starting to run through too.

I just think you are raining on PEB holders parade unnecessarily. Ya know?The bit I liked was right at the end with that bidder prepared to go to 74 and take out everything to 72 until some bailer couldnt believe his "luck" and nailed it back to 70. Very encouraging and it has closed above the long term trend line that someone said was 67-66. A month to the AGM when all the answers to your questions or in some cases grizzles will be revealed. Bobcat might be right and we get a bit of a lift from here to the meeting. Still a month to go on the original prediction for CMS approval - that could still come through on time but I get a feeling there is a delay with all the Obamacare stuff.

[psychic]

That's ok, dissension is allowed!

Fact is, since I sold near the top I just look at the chart and remember the news around PEB since then and have absolutely no faith in the current valuation. I will not be trading PEB again for a very long time and my (now sparse) comments on here are for the benefit of others. In fact, I may just leave it up to BC now to do the TA as I am pretty rusty on PEBs SP action now.

I hope PEB succeeds and, if it is any consolation to you, I am a bit "in" as I still haven't convinced my father to sell (he in fact wants to double down!).

I myself am staying well away. Hope that helps :)

How can it possibly be "for the benefit of others" when you are talking absolute crap?

And don't give me the sold out at the top stuff, you were buying and selling and missing out and worrying all the way up as I recall.
(may have this wrong but you are a trader afterall.. right?

For what it's worth, I'm doing yer Da's thing also

[psychic]

The bit I liked was right at the end with that bidder prepared to go to 74 and take out everything to 72 until some bailer couldnt believe his "luck" and nailed it back to 70. Very encouraging and it has closed above the long term trend line that someone said was 67-66. A month to the AGM when all the answers to your questions or in some cases grizzles will be revealed. Bobcat might be right and we get a bit of a lift from here to the meeting. Still a month to go on the original prediction for CMS approval - that could still come through on time but I get a feeling there is a delay with all the Obamacare stuff.

Hi Miner. Yes that final bit of trading was encouraging eh. Pity about the last minute dumper, but as Moosie says, it is volatile and so is being traded.

The CMS approval is hopefully end of the year now. I'm assuming that the AHRQ Review is part of that process.

[Balance]

How can it possibly be "for the benefit of others" when you are talking absolute crap?

And don't give me the sold out at the top stuff, you were buying and selling and missing out and worrying all the way up as I recall.
(may have this wrong but you are a trader afterall.. right?

For what it's worth, I'm doing yer Da's thing also

Relax - that's what traders do. Talk it up when they have bought, then talk it down after they have sold.

[winner69]

Relax - that's what traders do. Talk it up when they have bought, then talk it down after they have sold.

I back in yesterday .....just a bit of a play ......reckon it will go back to somewhere near 90 again soon.

I just have that feeling they might come out and announce something next week

[Minerbarejet]

Hi Miner. Yes that final bit of trading was encouraging eh. Pity about the last minute dumper, but as Moosie says, it is volatile and so is being traded.

The CMS approval is hopefully end of the year now. I'm assuming that the AHRQ Review is part of that process.The other thing was the punter at 69 probably thought s/he was going to get it and missed out. See what happens this morning- an extremely large announcement would do wonders.

[Balance]

I back in yesterday .....just a bit of a play ......reckon it will go back to somewhere near 90 again soon.

I just have that feeling they might come out and announce something next week

But of course, W69.

I have never had any problems with traders talking stocks up and down - it's up to posters to know and decide who are traders and who are investors.

[Minerbarejet]

Someone must want 500 pretty bad, certainly allowing plenty of clearance at .80.

[psychic]

Moosie. Talk about the post in question please. I'm not questioning TA or your generally very valuable contribution

[Balance]

Moosie. Talk about the post in question please. I'm not questioning TA or your generally very valuable contribution

Moose is getting itchy to press the 'BUY' button so watch carefully.

:D

[Balance]

Haha exactly. Low volume today and failed to break 70 resistance. Still bearish as anything :)


Think so, Moose?

Waiting now to see you change the tone of your postings.

:D

[Bobcat.]

Short-term downward trend line broken today.
Long-term upward trendline established off 62c earlier this week.
Looking more bullish now than it has for a while.

Discl: Bid on market.

[Dentie]

Load up a 6 month chart. 68-70 was a support level during the last fall and rebound. Since it was the lowest point over the past few months, falling below that level was a breakdown to a lower low (which is now 62).

As you can see over the chart time, there is a clear cascade effect as the price bounces off new lows on oversold levels (use RSI and stochastic levels to determine this), gains, then breaks the low support to go lower again. Anyone who says this isn't a traders stock is a bit deluded as the only ones doing this and winning are... traders!

Psychologucal numbers are usually those ending with a zero, five or are highest/lowest historical trade prices and are only support/resistance because of the human minds routine of locking onto them. An example is paying $1.99 or $2.00 for a litre of gas. Which one "looks" better to you? The difference is very minimal, but we have been conditioned to believe one is much better than the other. As such, you will see lots of bids/asks clustered around these numbers at times. Psychology plays a bigger role in the market than most would care to admit: we are only human after all. Ignore it at your peril!

Bugger - looks like the traders are getting back in again ..... small lot purchases .... SP heads up a cent or two .....and they start selling off so those winning trades can keep happening. The question is "was that THE BIG DOUBLE BOTTOM on 22 & 23/7"??

[psychic]

Pffft. FA warning now eh. Good one.

[couta1]

Pffft. FA warning now eh. Good one.
Moosie runs with the Moose and hunts with the Buffalo:cool:

[robbo24]

Like this post if you want me to send moosie a rude snapchat picture! Haha...

[skid]

Think so, Moose?

Waiting now to see you change the tone of your postings.

:D

Talking up the sp again are we ? Im still waiting to hear who those big institutional buyers your broker was harping on about a month or so ago(that never turned up) All in the game I guess:sleep:

[psychic]

Tell me what your PS ratio comes out as using FY results. The triple the rev (as expected for next HY) and then tell me what it is. Still not looking too flash eh?

What? You would use a p/s ratio based on very initial sales to value this?
Thats not FA. What else u got?

[Minerbarejet]

Someone with deep pockets buying up at the end of the day - nice one- just like yesterday.
Keep it up:)

[Tsuba]

Someone with deep pockets buying up at the end of the day - nice one- just like yesterday.
Keep it up:)

Probably Schnaps buying. ;)

[Dentie]

Someone with deep pockets buying up at the end of the day - nice one- just like yesterday.
Keep it up:)

That's right Miner ...a nice couple of days ending to the week.

Now bring on next week....

[Minerbarejet]

Probably Schnaps buying. ;)Yeah could be too - desperate to get back in before its too late.
Said in jest
Noah fence
DYOR
Have a nice weekend

[Tsuba]

You too Miner. Looks like we have a nice sunny one coming this weekend.

[psychic]

P/E ratio of -23? No?

NTA value of 6 cps? No?

Forward looking revenue of around $1.5M? No?

David Darling promising me free maple syrup for life if Robbo unleashes Hulk arms on my kidneys so that I use up multiple tests this year???


Okay. You win. It's a dog, obviously.

[psychic]

It's.... not a dog?

[angrytoenail]

Google getting into the biomarker game by the sounds of things.

http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/7/25/5935413/google-project-baseline-collect-medical-data-for-human-health

[Whipmoney]

Bought @ 55, sold @ 83, bought @ $1.20, sold @ 1.50, bought @ 1.52, sold @ 1.68. None since. There plenty of trades before the huge run up as well.

I'm sorry you didn't realise it was overvalued as anything, but I played the trend. Even Sparky was warning me it was well overvalued...

Sorry if you don't feel I am helping, but I have plenty of PMs thanking me for my contributions and thoughts. I don't make the market, so please don't get angry at me and call my strategy BS/fairy dust/voodoo, because it obviously worked!!!

As much as I like you Moose i'm not sure if I believe this. At the time you claimed you were well out of this stock and missed the boat.. I also remember you talking it down after missing out and claiming that there better trades out there (probably SNK around this time..). As the stock later climbed higher and higher then maybe I believe you took a position but you certainly didn't claim to when the thing initially blew up on back to back announcements.

PS: I'm also surprised that Sparky was warning you that it was overvalued as I was warning him at the time and he didn't seem to be buying it... although sometimes I wonder if he actually left so he could dump his holdings in PEB without looking like a hypocrite. Highly unlikely of course but it was just something I always pondered.

[nextbigthing]

No offense to Sparky but since when did he become the holy grail of investing? Since I joined the only thing I saw him advocate CNU at around $3, DIL at around $8 and PEB at 50 cents. This 'Sparky said it's good so it must be' mentality is a bit crazy, he even use to say that himself.

[psychic]

Totally valued stc posts. Miss input greatly. . But the clown was obviously human. I'm sure I recall him saying he was 'hanging onto his peb shares, 'tightly'. This at more than twice todays sp...

[couta1]

Totally valued stc posts. Miss input greatly. . But the clown was obviously human. I'm sure I recall him saying he was 'hanging onto his peb shares, 'tightly'. This at more than twice todays sp...
Ditto he bought a calm amongest all the noise,he sold his CNU holding around the same time as me disappointed obviously with the unpredictable political situation at the time, I had a pm from him after that and he was still very Bullish on Peb and DiL and being an investor rather than a trader I'm pretty sure he will still be holding.

[baller18]

Have to go with whipmoney on this one Moosie. When did SPC warn you it was overvalued? I am guessing through PM or outside of ST (if you do know him outside of ST)? Knowing SPC he was quite bullish on PEB, he certainly did not think it was overvalued when it reached $1.70, SPC consistently posted about PEB's SP in the future and had a very similar valuation to MAC's.
If what your saying is true, this certainly puts SPC reputation on the line... or yours...

Isn't this interesting?
Couta had a PM from SPC he was still bullish on PEB and moosie had a message saying it was overvalued...
lol.....

[klid]

I'd just like to say, psychic, and bobcat... I really appreciate your posts. Unlike some others'. Keep it up you two. Most others who post as much, I say the opposite, not naming any usernames, but your **** is of much much much much lesser value... really obvious... really blatant... speaks for itself.

HAD A FEW DRINKS.

Anyway, don't get disillusioned... all that's happened is due to OVERALL sentiment, really blatantly obvious just like your vastly different either retarded or valuable posts.

[nextbigthing]

I'd just like to say, psychic, and bobcat... I really appreciate your posts. Unlike some others'. Keep it up you two. Most others who post as much, I say the opposite, not naming any usernames, but your **** is of much much much much lesser value... really obvious... really blatant... speaks for itself.

HAD A FEW DRINKS.

Anyway, don't get disillusioned... all that's happened is due to OVERALL sentiment, really blatantly obvious just like your vastly different either retarded or valuable posts.

Haha Klid, so much passion!

[klid]

And... go to Google Finance and look up NZE:PEB ( http://www.google.com/finance?q=NZE:PEB )
And then use the "compare" feature on top of the graph and enter NZE:XRO for Xero, look over 1 year etc.

The results are so amazing and telling, really.

[klid]

And... go to Google Finance and look up NZE:PEB ( http://www.google.com/finance?q=NZE:PEB )
And then use the "compare" feature on top of the graph and enter NZE:XRO for Xero, look over 1 year etc.

The results are so amazing and telling, really.
i.e those agreements that we're signed in October last year mean **** all, relatively speaking. They in themselves carry no weight and actually weren't overly responsible for the share price movements at the time.

[Balance]

Talking up the sp again are we ? Im still waiting to hear who those big institutional buyers your broker was harping on about a month or so ago(that never turned up) All in the game I guess:sleep:

Have you had a look at the latest shareholders' list? Or more to the point, do you have access to one?

Just so you are in the picture, the latest shareholders list (21 July) showed :

NZCSD & FNZC with 68,645,846 shares. They represent holdings by institutions and they have increased their NET shareholding by several millions shares.

Meanwhile, the big sellers were ForBar Custodians & Nominees representing mostly retail clients and interests associated with Huljich and Banks.

When you get access to good information, you can then comment intelligently perhaps?

I pass on good reliable (imo) information which you are free to take onboard or ignore. But don't you ever try to insinuate me ramping up any share using false or misleading information to sell - there are those who do it and by writing as you do, you are obviously one?

[Balance]

No postings from the dooms merchants?

Watch them turn positive real soon.

:D

[couta1]

Same as last week, still very bearish. Won't harp on about it though, let you guys go about your usual. ;)
Bears having picnic over whole NZX Moosie.

[Balance]

Same as last week, still very bearish. Won't harp on about it though, let you guys go about your usual. ;)

But no more postings though from the doomsday merchants about sales etc etc?

Most disappointing!

[Minerbarejet]

But no more postings though from the doomsday merchants about sales etc etc?

Most disappointing!wonder why that is.
Any clues, Balance?:)
Cheers
Miner

[Balance]

wonder why that is.
Any clues, Balance?:)
Cheers
Miner

Usual traders' behavior.

Probably bought back and now, after a pause, will be about time to start writing about how great PEB can be?

All part of the game.

[robbo24]

The pendulum keeps swinging...

[Blue Horseshoe]

Potential 'universal' blood test for cancer discovered.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140728094410.htm

[Whipmoney]

Potential 'universal' blood test for cancer discovered.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140728094410.htm

Even if it works it will be years away from FDA approval / commercialisation and the caveat is that they have so far only tested three types of cancer.

[skid]

Have you had a look at the latest shareholders' list? Or more to the point, do you have access to one?

Just so you are in the picture, the latest shareholders list (21 July) showed :

NZCSD & FNZC with 68,645,846 shares. They represent holdings by institutions and they have increased their NET shareholding by several millions shares.

Meanwhile, the big sellers were ForBar Custodians & Nominees representing mostly retail clients and interests associated with Huljich and Banks.

When you get access to good information, you can then comment intelligently perhaps?

I pass on good reliable (imo) information which you are free to take onboard or ignore. But don't you ever try to insinuate me ramping up any share using false or misleading information to sell - there are those who do it and by writing as you do, you are obviously one?

I think some of your ''broker initiated'' posts could be interpreted as misleading. Thinking that large institutional buyers are about to jump on would certainly make some inclined to buy up-whether you were doing it for gain (did you buy in at that stage?) is any ones guess.
I wont go out on a limb and say it was intentional but
I dont think I am the only one who is taking you broker stuff with a grain of salt.

[Balance]

I think some of your ''broker initiated'' posts could be interpreted as misleading. Thinking that large institutional buyers are about to jump on would certainly make some inclined to buy up-whether you were doing it for gain (did you buy in at that stage?) is any ones guess.
I wont go out on a limb and say it was intentional but
I dont think I am the only one who is taking you broker stuff with a grain of salt.

Your posting tells more about you than it does anything else, dear skid.

Don't assume others do as you do, ok?

[Okebw]

http://www.cxbladder.com/order-form

Cutting the middle man out apparently

[Dentie]

http://www.cxbladder.com/order-form

Cutting the middle man out apparently

Good on them...

Focussing on the only one that matters - the poor bugger that has red tinted pee!

[skid]

Your posting tells more about you than it does anything else, dear skid.

Don't assume others do as you do, ok?

''you dare to question me and I come out guns blazing'' classic balance:D

[Copper]

Have you had a look at the latest shareholders' list? Or more to the point, do you have access to one?

Just so you are in the picture, the latest shareholders list (21 July) showed :

NZCSD & FNZC with 68,645,846 shares. They represent holdings by institutions and they have increased their NET shareholding by several millions shares.

Meanwhile, the big sellers were ForBar Custodians & Nominees representing mostly retail clients and interests associated with Huljich and Banks.

When you get access to good information, you can then comment intelligently perhaps?

I pass on good reliable (imo) information which you are free to take onboard or ignore. But don't you ever try to insinuate me ramping up any share using false or misleading information to sell - there are those who do it and by writing as you do, you are obviously one?
Balance...Just as an aside,would that two mill odd share increase be just the increase percentage wise of Kiwi saver funds and may be seen as the same percentage over perhaps most top 50 stocks.??

[skid]

She's a rough road commercializing any new product, especially a disruptive product.

I get the sense that some posters here think it is a walk in the park which it never was.

Meantime, keep an eye on who's taking the opportunity to buy the stock.

Will be revealed in around 2 weeks' time.

Heres the post..Inside information?.At any rate,not much mention of those sellers,only the buyers---Ill let you guys be the judge on where he was going with this post

[skid]

Not really about me ,is it Balance--It was'nt me who did the post.
Did you know this info before it came out on the list?(in 2 weeks time)

[Balance]

Balance...Just as an aside,would that two mill odd share increase be just the increase percentage wise of Kiwi saver funds and may be seen as the same percentage over perhaps most top 50 stocks.??

You mean index funds? They normally up and down their weightings around indexing time.

[skid]

Its for all to see--no matter how slippery your posts are today---posters will decide for themselves

[skid]

Will be revealed in around 2 weeks time................

Maybe you can explain how one accesses who will be buying institutionally BEFORE it makes it to the list

[skid]

Maybe on the Snakk thread you have backed up your statements,but on this thread you have not,so far.
If some had bought in on the back of your post(thinking you had some juicy inside info on some instos buying in big)they would have been very disappointed.
We just want clarity on how you supposedly knew this info before it happened and then why there was no mention of it afterwards.
I think anyone would view that as provocative and would find it hard to trust your claims.

[psychic]

Forbar have commenced coverage with a price target of $1.10.

Excellent. thanks bk.

[Mista_Trix]

Forbar have commenced coverage with a price target of $1.10.

Wow, and thus begins some 'actual' numbers.

[Whipmoney]

Forbar have commenced coverage with a price target of $1.10.

Boy are they optimistic..

[MAC]

Forbar have commenced coverage with a price target of $1.10.

That’s really very low, I always wonder how much they discount for sentiment in creating a ‘price target’. But good on them for having a go and for being brave enough to go first.

[psychic]

Aaarrrgggghhhhh!

[NT001]

Without giving away too many proprietary secrets, any indication of a timeframe for that target? Is that reasonably short term or only after the company has met all its five-year targets like $100m?