PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[barney]

Having interacted with the senior management team of this company in the past and having some idea of the industry they work in. A retail investor shouldn't touch this with a 10 ft pole (unless you only want to be left with 6"). Nuff said.

Dear lord, what next. Sigh.

[winner69]

Dear lord, what next. Sigh.

Kiwidollabill committing treason on this thread?

Has strong credentials and may actually have a real 'inside' feel for things. This is what he/she.told us -

I spent 6-7yrs at the University of Otago and finished up with a science PhD, through this and my previous job I have had a fair bit of exposure to PEB and BLT so may add my 2c in on those threads.

[kiwidollabill]

No treason, no conflict of interest, no commercial exposure to them from me.

But lets consider the experience of the management..... how many of them have been involved in a STARTUP healthcare/diagnostics company which has successfully grown into a profitable business?

[robbo24]

Kiwidollabill committing treason on this thread?

Has strong credentials and may actually have a real 'inside' feel for things. This is what he/she.told us -

I spent 6-7yrs at the University of Otago and finished up with a science PhD, through this and my previous job I have had a fair bit of exposure to PEB and BLT so may add my 2c in on those threads.

I have some rules in life: never trust anyone with an alias that doesn't have at least two numbers at the end and/or includes txt lngj.

I also question the credentials of someone who can't remember how many years they spent at university (one year is a long time to forget) and seemingly makes a new sharetrader account just for purposes of bagging the management of a company...

Just saying - we've seen this type of nonsense before... :D

[winner69]

I have some rules in life: never trust anyone with an alias that doesn't have at least two numbers at the end and/or includes txt lngj.

I also question the credentials of someone who can't remember how many years they spent at university (one year is a long time to forget) and seemingly makes a new sharetrader account just for purposes of bagging the management of a company...

Just saying - we've seen this type of nonsense before... :D

Hi 24 its 69 here ....have to trust those numbers eh

Kiwidollabill upset Percy now - EBO due for an earnings downgrade

[Tsuba]

Question for Kiwidollabill

What is the Phd. What is the previous job and exposure to PEB management etc etc etc.....

[kiwidollabill]

Completely fair call, should get a few more posts before I start flaming these guys, spose I've found it dissapointing to see this company window dressed up as someone they are not. I'll behave now....

To break it down.... 4 years honours degree, 2.5 years PhD, 0.5 years postgrad. Since then, been involved in the diagnostics/healthcare industry (particularly molecular/DNA diagnostics) and most recently science commercialisation.

[trader_jackson]

Well ultimately, time will tell if they are truly as 'bad' as you appear to be making out...

[psychic]

Telling I think that you comments are not about the Science. That would be useful - perhaps.

[robbo24]

'...spose...' - To break it down.... 4 years honours degree, 2.5 years PhD, 0.5 years postgrad. Since then, been involved in the diagnostics/healthcare industry (particularly molecular/DNA diagnostics) and most recently science commercialisation.

I spose we'll have to see what technical information you can provide. I spose your qualifications might give you an insight in PEB's tech. What do you spose is wrong with the PEB product? (sticking to your field of expertise, of course :D)

I'm just calling it like I see it - what's a guy sposed to do?

[Crackity]

I recommend giving the dollar bill a chance - he has stated his qualifications and he is in the right field to provide some insight on the technical side - he has also stated his bias so you will be able to treat his comments with a grain of salt if you wish.....

Im on the sidelines with this company but am interested....

I look forward to some more posts Mr Bill!

[kiwidollabill]

Ok, lets try the discussion.....

There is nothing wrong with their 'product', they've developed some nice qPCR assays looking at specific bladder cancer markers. From a technical perspective they aren't quite there yet, as the preparation steps are rather time consuming and not easily adaptable to high throughput OR compatible to existing hardware found in most hospital labs.

However, their go to market strategy is what I question. The easy/less risky (and more profitable in the short term) would be to license the assay to Roche/Qiagen/Abbott etc (all big players well established in the market). For what ever reason, they have chosen not to do this (or the big guys had no interest in their IP = bad sign) and are essentially selling as a service provider. This approach is much more capital heavy, encompasses higher risk and is not easy to scale well (in terms of profitability and sales velocity). The payoff in the end could indeed be massive, however the road will be difficult and there are better alternatives to commercialize that IP.

Also, they could be wiped out very quickly if Roche/Qiagen/Abbott decide to move into this space.

[winner69]

I spose we'll have to see what technical information you can provide. I spose your qualifications might give you an insight in PEB's tech. What do you spose is wrong with the PEB product? (sticking to your field of expertise, of course :D)

I'm just calling it like I see it - what's a guy sposed to do?

Hey 24 .....spose is a great word. No wonder Dr dollabill uses it after the constraints on using such words being used in his thesis.

The past participle sposed you have used correctly.

Apparently that rapper guy Spose is pretty good ....he on your playlists. He has a song Awesome ......Moosie comes to mind

[robbo24]

There is nothing wrong with their 'product'...

However ... market strategy ... easy/less risky (...more profitable...) (...established in the market)... big guys had no interest in their IP ... capital heavy ... higher risk ... not easy to scale well ... profitability and sales velocity) ... better alternatives to commercialize that IP.

Did you do a double degree? Can you quantify the comments you make here? It just seems to me that if we accept your knowledge of the product (you say you're a doctor of something) then on what basis do we accept your knowledge of the boldened concepts above?

Seems like a fairly big punt without any definitive sources or commentary...

Just saying - new sharetrader account, big claims, big ideas...

[kiwidollabill]

Did you do a double degree? Can you quantify the comments you make here? It just seems to me that if we accept your knowledge of the product (you say you're a doctor of something) then on what basis do we accept your knowledge of the boldened concepts above?

Seems like a fairly big punt without any definitive sources or commentary...

Just saying - new sharetrader account, big claims, big ideas...

PhD in science, had a role involved in sales of DNA assays to hospitals/universities. Have seen the adoption of DNA cancer diagnostics into hospital labs (this has taken off massively in the last 3 years). I know the products, the capabilities and how hospitals adopt new technology in this sector.

[Crackity]

Ok, lets try the discussion.....

There is nothing wrong with their 'product', they've developed some nice qPCR assays looking at specific bladder cancer markers. From a technical perspective they aren't quite there yet, as the preparation steps are rather time consuming and not easily adaptable to high throughput OR compatible to existing hardware found in most hospital labs.

However, their go to market strategy is what I question. The easy/less risky (and more profitable in the short term) would be to license the assay to Roche/Qiagen/Abbott etc (all big players well established in the market). For what ever reason, they have chosen not to do this (or the big guys had no interest in their IP = bad sign) and are essentially selling as a service provider. This approach is much more capital heavy, encompasses higher risk and is not easy to scale well (in terms of profitability and sales velocity). The payoff in the end could indeed be massive, however the road will be difficult and there are better alternatives to commercialize that IP.

Also, they could be wiped out very quickly if Roche/Qiagen/Abbott decide to move into this space.


That seems like a reasonable post to me - as many on this thread have commented previously commercialisation is taking much longer than was originally assumed by the market and the company. Isn't that why they just had the last cash issue? The cash issue seemed like a sensible step but they need some bigger runs on the revenue board - that would indicate product acceptance from healthcare providers which would be a great sign.

[Casino]

Did you do a double degree? Can you quantify the comments you make here? It just seems to me that if we accept your knowledge of the product (you say you're a doctor of something) then on what basis do we accept your knowledge of the boldened concepts above?

Seems like a fairly big punt without any definitive sources or commentary...

Just saying - new sharetrader account, big claims, big ideas...

I welcome your comments on why PEB hasn't at least licensed colorectal and melanoma?

[Minerbarejet]

If you have a spare year most of the answers you require are on this thread, or were.
Good luck.

[Tsuba]

Having interacted with the senior management team of this company in the past and having some idea of the industry they work in. A retail investor shouldn't touch this with a 10 ft pole (unless you only want to be left with 6"). Nuff said.

Would be interested in your experience / interaction with PEB management. Not trying to shoot you down. But claims should be backed up with a few facts or reasons for having concerns about the management.

[psychic]

Could you explain your statement below further please:
.
From a technical perspective they aren't quite there yet, as the preparation steps are rather time consuming and not easily adaptable to high throughput OR compatible to existing hardware found in most hospital labs.

My understanding is that it is not intended that the tests be processed through hospital labs, that the PEB labs have been set up to specificically handle the voulume they anticipate, within the timeframes required.

[Casino]

If you have a spare year most of the answers you require are on this thread, or were.
Good luck.

Well I think I already got my answer from $bill...

[kiwidollabill]

I welcome your comments on why PEB hasn't at least licensed colorectal and melanoma?

Alot of the big boys already have melanoma assays, examples are the BRAF assay from Roche/Qiagen which is used for evaluating if you are suitable for a particular type of drug.

Where PEB are slightly ahead of what everyone else is doing is their use of urine as the sample, everything else is either blood/tissue. But again, their prep methods for urine have their own drawbacks.

[kiwidollabill]

None of them have experience in a startup diagnostics company, how many of us would get jobs we dont have experience with?

[kiwidollabill]

Could you explain your statement below further please:
.
From a technical perspective they aren't quite there yet, as the preparation steps are rather time consuming and not easily adaptable to high throughput OR compatible to existing hardware found in most hospital labs.

My understanding is that it is not intended that the tests be processed through hospital labs, that the PEB labs have been set up to specificically handle the voulume they anticipate, within the timeframes required.

I can assure you that if they want to get to their $100m sales target and make a profit they are going to need to change their prep methods, PEB are aware of this and looking for solutions.

Currently they have to do a liquid-liquid extraction, followed by a purification with spin columns (i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FEbTyOXs-k)

Everyone else does this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AOtQCY51Oc

[Tsuba]

None of them have experience in a startup diagnostics company, how many of us would get jobs we dont have experience with?

But what was the specific interaction you say you had with management.

[Casino]

Alot of the big boys already have melanoma assays, examples are the BRAF assay from Roche/Qiagen which is used for evaluating if you are suitable for a particular type of drug.

Where PEB are slightly ahead of what everyone else is doing is their use of urine as the sample, everything else is either blood/tissue. But again, their prep methods for urine have their own drawbacks.

I wanted to hear Robbo's thoughts on why colorectal or melanoma are benched if immediate monetisation is an option?

[kiwidollabill]

But what was the specific interaction you say you had with management.

Plenty of meetings/site visits. Nice guys, smart too, but because they don't have the required experience they are having to figure it out as they go along. Makes timelines drag on.... sound familiar?

[psychic]

I can assure you that if they want to get to their $100m sales target they are going to need to change their prep methods, PEB are aware of this and looking for solutions.

Currently they have to do a liquid-liquid extraction, followed by a purification with spin columns (i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FEbTyOXs-k)

Everyone else does this.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AOtQCY51Oc

Thanks for that.
The US lab is set up to handle 260k tests pa , the NZ lab I understood 4k pw. There are approved labs Europe and Aust. So they have the capability to process sufficient tests to crack 100m no?

No doubt there will be further developments in processing- I note the process you say everyone else is using is probably already a decade old in design. But do you agree that PEB have the capabilities to reach throughput targets at least over the next 3-4 years?

[BlackPeter]

Did you do a double degree? Can you quantify the comments you make here? It just seems to me that if we accept your knowledge of the product (you say you're a doctor of something) then on what basis do we accept your knowledge of the boldened concepts above?

Seems like a fairly big punt without any definitive sources or commentary...

Just saying - new sharetrader account, big claims, big ideas...

Hi robbo and winner (with these trustworthy numbers at the butt ...) - might be a good time to stop and reconsider the tone of your posts. I think it is quite rude to gang up on a fellow poster in this way - he/she is entitled to her/his view same as you are entitled to yours.

If you don't like the PEB share price to linger, than just put your money where your mouth is and buy more. Why not take the company over ... this would finish this thread (which might be a good thing)?

Personally - I think that PEB has a good product, however I don't see yet a way to value them ... and buying shares based on hype is normally the wrong thing to do.

[psychic]

I wanted to hear Robbo's thoughts on why colorectal or melanoma are benched if immediate monetisation is an option?

Never understoood situation about Colorectal gen1 but others still in development Casino?7466

[robbo24]

If you don't like the PEB share price to linger, than just put your money where your mouth is and buy more.

Thanks for the heads-up about my tone. Sometimes the guard standing at the gate of reason can sound a bit terse. However, I would be more concerned if every new sharetrader account who said they were a doctor in the field and said they didn't like the management of a company was left to their own devices. Wouldn't you prefer to question such information? Maybe in the circumstances you are guilty of your own accusation... :D

Anyway, I don't hold PEB. I only came back to say that the envelopes used to return the compensation forms were mint flavoured. It was a very tasty treat.

[kiwidollabill]

Thanks for the heads-up about my tone. Sometimes the guard standing at the gate of reason can sound a bit terse. However, I would be more concerned if every new sharetrader account who said they were a doctor in the field and said they didn't like the management of a company was left to their own devices. Wouldn't you prefer to question such information? Maybe in the circumstances you are guilty of your own accusation... :D

Anyway, I don't hold PEB. I only came back to say that the envelopes used to return the compensation forms were mint flavoured. It was a very tasty treat.

Completely understand, apologies if I came out of the gate swinging. I've read a fair bit of this thread and alot is just repeating the window dressed PR from PEB. I'd like to see more discussion about the industry PEB operates in and on how we can value them based on that.

I've got info to add on other companies on this forum, might just do it a bit more softly softly in the future....

[kiwidollabill]

Thanks for that.
The US lab is set up to handle 260k tests pa , the NZ lab I understood 4k pw. There are approved labs Europe and Aust. So they have the capability to process sufficient tests to crack 100m no?

No doubt there will be further developments in processing- I note the process you say everyone else is using is probably already a decade old in design. But do you agree that PEB have the capabilities to reach throughput targets at least over the next 3-4 years?

Yes the automated technology (magnetic beads) is probably 10years old, what PEB are using for their preps is 30 years old....

Sure they could reach those throughput targets with what they are doing at the moment, however it would be extremely labour intensive and inefficient. A wider question is not around throughput but whether they have the tests coming in the door to justify the capital. They built their US lab long before they had the orders to fill it. EDIT: A previous post of mine was not clear, to 'efficiently' scale to $100M they will need to change preps. I know PEB have been trying to move to automated technologies for some time without success.

[psychic]

Yes the automated technology (magnetic beads) is probably 10years old, what PEB are using for their preps is 30 years old....

Sure they could reach those throughput targets with what they are doing at the moment, however it would be extremely labour intensive and inefficient. A wider question is not around throughput but whether they have the tests coming in the door to justify the capital. They built their US lab long before they had the orders to fill it.

So what would the capital costs have been setting up this newer wiz bang process? Has it not made financial sense to go about this the way they have?

[Ninefingers]

So what would the capital costs have been setting up this newer wiz bang process? Has it not made financial sense to go about this the way they have?

Would the fact it is 30 year old technology make the cost relatively low? Also if it is a labour intensive process surely, this scales well by simply hiring more lab technicians to process the tests? (assuming they have the lab space already)

[kiwidollabill]

So what would the capital costs have been setting up this newer wiz bang process? Has it not made financial sense to go about this the way they have?

Capital cost is ~$100k US, they haven't gone this way out of choice, its because their methods are not compatible with the the technology. They are still doing the same as what was going on in the research lab.

[Tsuba]

Did you work for PEB Dr Dollar ?

[kiwidollabill]

No, one of their suppliers

[Crackity]

the guard standing at the gate of reason

Robbo you have just named Pink Floyds next album - congratulations!

[Minerbarejet]

Im sure PEB will be delighted to know that former representatives of their suppliers are busy spouting forth on a public forum about their modus operandi. You dont have a Queens Counsel on standby by any chance do you?

[Casino]

Never understoood situation about Colorectal gen1 but others still in development Casino?7466

Doesn't explain why they don't do a JV given the cash flow situation.

[robbo24]

Did you work for PEB Dr Dollar ?


No, one of their suppliers

Crickey - can't wait to see this forum episode play out between PEB and the supplier. A rogue employee from the supplier talking bad about the company, providing enough innuendo to identify himself online...

Love it, get the popcorn.

[Casino]

Crickey - can't wait to see this forum episode play out between PEB and the supplier. A rogue employee from the supplier talking bad about the company, providing enough innuendo to identify himself online...

Love it, get the popcorn.

So have we moved on from discrediting to mocking? Remind me again why he deserves this?

[psychic]

So have we moved on from discrediting to mocking? Remind me again why he deserves this?

Because he hurt our feelings with the don't touch this thing...

[psychic]

But seriously, appreciate the discussion

Hmm - okay. Well, the science behind all this is well beyond me but $100k is peanuts.

A moat then..! Perhaps it is the inability of the new wiz bang thing to duplicate for others, what our 30 year old process can do! :)

So to the Cxbladder Detect and Triage tests then. My support for PEB lies in the relative performance and likely commercial uptake of these tests. I have come to accept that the road to commercialisation is not a fast one, so am patient. I believe they are ticking off the boxes and have the goods.
Anything you can contribute to this appreciated.

[Tsuba]

No, one of their suppliers

What did you supply them ???

[Casino]

Because he hurt our feelings with the don't touch this thing...

:) You can lead a horse from denial to anger, but you can't make him accept. Maybe somebody will find the time to scrutinise the management also.

[Casino]

What did you supply them ???

This is getting ridiculous.

[Minerbarejet]

This is getting ridiculous.
And interesting.:)

[Tsuba]

This is getting ridiculous.

It's called DYOR Casino.......;)

[Casino]

And interesting.:)

Not if we loose a great contributor.

[Casino]

It's called DYOR Casino.......;)

R = interrogation?

[Tsuba]

Not if we loose a great contributor.

A great contributor who is pushing all the buttons you like being pushed. He will only run away if the Queens Council knocks on his door.

[Crackity]

I'm with Casino - keep posting Mr Bill - we like reasoned debate!

( and unreasoned though Vince sometime gets upset)

[BlackPeter]

just to bring a bit of fun into the thread: according to my records Forsyth Barr published in July 2014 for PEB a 12 month price target (i.e. for July 2015) of $1.10. This is now - and the share price lingers in the low 60 cents. Their current 12 month price target is $1.24 ... does this mean Fobar uses a different calendar system?

[Minerbarejet]

Not if we loose a great contributor.losing great contributors doesnt seem to have bothered anyone in the past.
Sparky, MAC, Hancocks to name a few that made massive contributions over many years.

[robbo24]

So have we moved on from discrediting to mocking? Remind me again why he deserves this?

I'm not mocking anyone - just a subtle reminder that the reality of busines and the interest can sometimes mean that: (1) People make things up under anonymous names; or (2) People get in trouble for posting opinions they shouldn't be posting because they are in a direct employment/contract situation with the person they are talking bad about.

Wouldn't be too hard for the supplier to find him or her :D

[trader_jackson]

Good afternoon everyone,

Well what a morning it has been, someone who claims to be a doctor, have extensive knowledge of PEB's field and product, and worked for one of PEB's suppliers, people coming on the forum who I haven't seen post so much for quite some time, and this seems to have lead to shots being fired left right and centre from every direction, adding to the fun.

Please all keep it up! I personally always find it interesting to see other peoples views and ideas (isn't that the idea of sharetrader?) One thing I will note, is to try to stick to PEB, and not to let personal "grudges" interfere with "the facts", nor make comments that cannot at least be supported by some sort of theory.

Meanwhile share price continues to rise, with almost 1.3m extra shares actually being applied for, meaning the underwriter actually only had 32.6% of the shares to "dump" not 35%.

Share price continues to increase, as I have heard the underwriter has already "dumped" most of these shares (ie the underwriter selling is no longer a factor! - would explain the increasing share price).

(insert sarcasm) But I thought the share price was going to drift into the mid 50's as the underwriter "struggled" to calmly dump the shares on the market over a reasonable period of time??! (sarcasm)

I am glad, this was clearly dead wrong... and in fact the share price has drifted in the opposite direction! Well done to those who participated in the capital raising, and supporting PEB's ambitions, may your 5% gain (aprox) in just over a week continue!

[Casino]

I'm not mocking anyone - just a subtle reminder that the reality of busines and the interest can sometimes mean that: (1) People make things up under anonymous names; or (2) People get in trouble for posting opinions they shouldn't be posting because they are in a direct employment/contract situation with the person they are talking bad about.

Wouldn't be too hard for the supplier to find him or her :D

Certainly easier to identify his/her identity than a responsible financial journo whose job $bill is doing. The problem with PEB isn't an excess of transparency.

[Minerbarejet]

Certainly easier to identify his/her identity than a responsible financial journo whose job $bill is doing. The problem with PEB isn't an excess of transparency.
Ah well the AGM isnt too far away, you could always buy a few shares (assuming you dont own any) and rip down and ask a few pertinent questions, ( if you can get a word in).

[blu3]

Having interacted with the senior management team of this company in the past and having some idea of the industry they work in. A retail investor shouldn't touch this with a 10 ft pole (unless you only want to be left with 6"). Nuff said.

Thanks for all your inputs so far! With your knowledge of the industry, I can't help but having an opportunistic question here—if you had to pick a biotech company for investment, which one would it be? It would also be great to hear your point of view on the “why”.

Cheers!

[RGR367]

Thanks for all your inputs so far! With your knowledge of the industry, I can't help but having an opportunistic question here—if you had to pick a biotech company for investment, which one would it be? It would also be great to hear your point of view on the “why”.

Cheers!

You can probably start a new thread based on your question so we can leave the muddled comms here purely for PEB :D Seriously, I find this thread the most enjoyable one to read. And though I make it a point not to participate on a thread for which I don't own a stock, I'm making just this one exception. TY Guys and yes, keep it up. Everyone is just contributing to make it really entertaining. Thanks. :p

[psychic]

Thanks for all your inputs so far! With your knowledge of the industry, I can't help but having an opportunistic question here—if you had to pick a biotech company for investment, which one would it be? It would also be great to hear your point of view on the “why”.

Cheers!

These guys reckon they specialise in bio picks.

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/?ACT=19&ID=14588&dir=monthlybooks&field=19

Oh wait, out of all those intern Bio Stocks covered, they pick PEB?
Nutters

[Crackity]

You can probably start a new thread based on your question so we can leave the muddled comms here purely for PEB :D Seriously, I find this thread the most enjoyable one to read. And though I make it a point not to participate on a thread for which I don't own a stock, I'm making just this one exception. TY Guys and yes, keep it up. Everyone is just contributing to make it really entertaining. Thanks. :p


I admire your principles RGR - I too comment only on shares I either own or don't own.

[psychic]

Certainly don't mind being wrong..... before one is foolish enough to to claim "this was clearly wrong" and crow about a 5% gain on a share that's has been absolutely smashed in the last 12 months, for good reasons, one should take into account that we are only 1 week into the 4-6 week period I indicated it would take to disburse the underwriters shares if they were to end up with the large amounts I was alluding too in my post(which they did)
Sit back and relax TJ........little bit to keen/early to say I told you so don't you think...........we do know the underwriter has plenty of shares to work with so only 5 more weeks to go before you can say I told you so.


But according to First, the stock has gone..

From NBR
First NZ investment banking director Dave Watt says he is comfortable with the level of shortfall within the offer and is happy
with the outcome.
“The offer was well supported by local institutions, which is a really good sign of the support the New Zealand capital markets
show for genuine New Zealand growth stories.
“Because First NZ underwrote the offer, we’re essentially responsible for the third of the shares that didn’t sell. But we had subunderwritten
them out to a broad range of existing and new institutional investors who have taken that stock.”

They happy. Insto's happy. Yappiti wrong - again

[psychic]

7465
I'll try post one but dammit I suck at this.
So you really think WYN Holders would have stumped more than 65% of the full CR had WYN gone direct as PEB did huh?

You forget to reply to this yappity?

[trader_jackson]

Yes as I said just above where you quoted me snapiti, the stock has already been sold (or "dumped" if you like)..

With buy orders slowly mounting up, sells orders slowly decreasing (from the looks of it), and no underwriter to "dump" shares on the market, what would cause the stock to decrease over a 4-6 week period?

(Assuming there is no further announcements, which is a big assumption as I think [like I have mentioned before] there will be a, potentially positive, announcement regarding one of the user programmes potentially in this time frame)

Maybe another huge, unforeseen seller will come to the market and depress the price, but this seems a bit unlikely...

(on a side note, what I also found quite amusing is that immediately after the capital raising, when the shares went to 60c and 59c, some people were already congratulating snapiti that he had "got it right this time", clearly that was extremely premature as this has now completely reversed, BUT maybe it will reverse again and somehow go back down? who knows... like I've said before, its interesting times)

[kiwidollabill]

I no longer work for any company associated PEB.

I can try to add information pertaining to the company, their science and the industry they are associated with if members want to hear my insights.

Otherwise I'll contribute to other threads (I have had alot positive to say about A2 for some time....)

[trader_jackson]

Yes I also encourage anyone to post, keep it up. I also think name calling, however funny, is also a bit low...

So snapiti you are implying that local institutions, who First NZ was able to easily and very quickly sell it off to as quoted before, are all stupid for buying it? I don't think it was a case of "being desperate not to be stuck with this dog", but quite the opposite, ie NZ institutions more than happy to buy it, and First NZ, who's job really is not to hold stock, was happy to sell it to them (although would probably have to hold if the share price dropped away). The recent share price performance (increase) would also reinforce this theory...

[Crisis]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/underwriter-says-pacific-edge-could-reach-100m-sales-target-quickly-jr-p-175286 (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/underwriter-says-pacific-edge-could-reach-100m-sales-target-quickly-jr-p-175286)

[Crackity]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/underwriter-says-pacific-edge-could-reach-100m-sales-target-quickly-jr-p-175286 (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/underwriter-says-pacific-edge-could-reach-100m-sales-target-quickly-jr-p-175286)

If you are a believer with PEB your eyes focus on the "$100m" / if you are an unbeliever your eyes focus on the "could"..... What a fun day has been had on this thread today.

[BlackPeter]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/underwriter-says-pacific-edge-could-reach-100m-sales-target-quickly-jr-p-175286 (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/underwriter-says-pacific-edge-could-reach-100m-sales-target-quickly-jr-p-175286)

Who is saying that? The sub-underwriter? But he would say that - wouldn't he?

[Minerbarejet]

Yes well most of you missed it and I did too.
Go back to March
Investors Presentation
Why?
(Aha, capital raising coming up and just getting a few ducks lined up in a row.)
The tenure of the thread at the time was that they were trying to boost the shareprice.
Yes , I think we have a few smart cookies around, more than some would have us believe.:)

After all this there is an urgent need for refreshment.
Cheers
Miner

[robbo24]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/underwriter-says-pacific-edge-could-reach-100m-sales-target-quickly-jr-p-175286 (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/underwriter-says-pacific-edge-could-reach-100m-sales-target-quickly-jr-p-175286)

Snapiti will you please submit an article to NBR with your views, to counter this?

[nextbigthing]

To anyone else like me, struggling to keep up with all the posts on this thread, nothing material has happened, you can skip the last five pages and continue watching State of Origin

[skid]

Good afternoon everyone,

Well what a morning it has been, someone who claims to be a doctor, have extensive knowledge of PEB's field and product, and worked for one of PEB's suppliers, people coming on the forum who I haven't seen post so much for quite some time, and this seems to have lead to shots being fired left right and centre from every direction, adding to the fun.

Please all keep it up! I personally always find it interesting to see other peoples views and ideas (isn't that the idea of sharetrader?) One thing I will note, is to try to stick to PEB, and not to let personal "grudges" interfere with "the facts", nor make comments that cannot at least be supported by some sort of theory.

Meanwhile share price continues to rise, with almost 1.3m extra shares actually being applied for, meaning the underwriter actually only had 32.6% of the shares to "dump" not 35%.

Share price continues to increase, as I have heard the underwriter has already "dumped" most of these shares (ie the underwriter selling is no longer a factor! - would explain the increasing share price).

(insert sarcasm) But I thought the share price was going to drift into the mid 50's as the underwriter "struggled" to calmly dump the shares on the market over a reasonable period of time??! (sarcasm)

I am glad, this was clearly dead wrong... and in fact the share price has drifted in the opposite direction! Well done to those who participated in the capital raising, and supporting PEB's ambitions, may your 5% gain (aprox) in just over a week continue!

I would be interested to know where you ''heard'' the underwriter has already dumped its shares--could you please provide some details on how you have come to that conclusion--Is this another assumption? (like that big announcement that is certain in the near future?)
Its great nthe SP has gained a few cents--but lets keep it real.

the reality in terms of the company is --commercial uptake

but in terms of the SP it only only takes enough investors who THINK there will be a good uptake--eventually those two will meet.

so to those eternal optimists who put their money where their keyboard is and bought up big at under the cap raise price--congratulations

[skid]

losing great contributors doesnt seem to have bothered anyone in the past.
Sparky, MAC, Hancocks to name a few that made massive contributions over many years.

I wouldnt be so sure all of the names on your list are gone

[Xerof]

I would be interested to know where you ''heard'' the underwriter has already dumped its shares--could you please provide some details on how you have come to that conclusion--Is this another assumption?
Well, I read it in the NBR a couple of days ago. Not 'dumped', but as is entirely normal with fully underwritten issues, taken up by the pre-arranged institutional sub-underwriters. You need to realise that sub-underwriters don't get called upon until after the closing date. All the rhetoric on here over the past few weeks about the pile of crapola the underwriter might or might not have been in, has been proven to be un-Balanced rubbish

ps - good to be in Queensland tonight 52-6 to the cane toads:t_up:

[Crackity]

To anyone else like me, struggling to keep up with all the posts on this thread, nothing material has happened, you can skip the last five pages and continue watching State of Origin

And what a good game that was unless you supported the blues!

i can write the SMH quote now - it was all the refs fault

thurston 9 out of 9!

[skid]

Well, I read it in the NBR a couple of days ago. Not 'dumped', but as is entirely normal with fully underwritten issues, taken up by the pre-arranged institutional sub-underwriters. You need to realise that sub-underwriters don't get called upon until after the closing date. All the rhetoric on here over the past few weeks about the pile of crapola the underwriter might or might not have been in, has been proven to be un-Balanced rubbish

ps - good to be in Queensland tonight 52-6 to the cane toads:t_up:


Fair enough--Im alot farther away than you so cant keep up with everything:)---(internet is real slowwwwwww in Myanmar)---Seems like the worse the outside world economy gets the better PEB does--should be a cracker 2moro (half the companies on shanghai stock exchange on trading halt to try to stop the blood)----Im out completely---innocent bystander for now---meanwhile no one to concerned here in this country.

[trader_jackson]

Ok, well back to the present, just saw a big trade (or a few trades?) just went through for 600k shares, looks like there are no more sellers at 64c... share price will just have to go up (buys now outweigh sells by 3 to 1, up from 2 to 1 a few days ago and a big reversal of a few weeks ago).

Also just noticed another 100k buy orders poured in in last few minutes... clearly this is very short term sort of "viewing" of the stock, but I find it interesting none the less.

[couta1]

Ok, well back to the present, just saw a big trade (or a few trades?) just went through for 600k shares, looks like there are no more sellers at 64c... share price will just have to go up (buys now outweigh sells by 3 to 1, up from 2 to 1 a few days ago and a big reversal of a few weeks ago).

Also just noticed another 100k buy orders poured in in last few minutes... clearly this is very short term sort of "viewing" of the stock, but I find it interesting none the less.
Meanwhile WYN continues to fall, sorry Snaps I just couldn't resist:cool:. PS-Perhaps PEB could be a good hedge type fund at the moment aye.

[kiwidollabill]

65c? This is 'hockey stick growth' people.

[robbo24]

65c? This is 'hockey stick growth' people.

Tell us some more medical and scientific information please Doctor.

[kiwidollabill]

Tell us some more medical and scientific information please Doctor.

Be wary of doctors who require a 'cough test' with every visit.

[skid]

Gotta hand it to the faithful for this share (any share)to hold with all the carnage around--never let it be said I dont give credit where credit is due--(to the SH at least) defying gravity

[Arthur]

Looking forward to your comments on Blis Kiwidollabill. Before the AGM would be good thanks

[kiwidollabill]

Made some comments on BLT

I better say something positive....
ADInstruments is a great Dunedin based science company which (kinda) came out of the UoO, leader in their field, offices across the world.

AbacusBio is also doing well in Dunedin, filled with ex AgResearch staff who realise they can get paid alot more and make more of a difference in the private world

LanzaTech are one who are are sadly going to loose with their offices going off shore, few UoO researchers still doing joint projects with them

ICPbio could have been awesome (a bit before my time), I've actually been to the facility (now part of MP biomedical) and it was obviously built for much grander things. Their product really is at the top end of the market so it was never going to be a volume business. Someone else is going to do that and make alot of $$$ (http://www.proliantbiologicals.com/biological-products/standard-grade-bsa/)

Whole lot more but those are some off the top of my head

[psychic]

kiwidollabill - I have copied your comments made on the BLT thread insofar as they relate to PEB. I hope you will not mind, but they will be of great interest to followers here.

Quote:
Skid mentioned marketing (or lack thereof) as being an issue with PEB and BLT. Don't know much about BLT in this area but I do know that PEB no longer have any 'marketers' on staff and that the majority of it is done by a Dunedin agency.

This is certainly big news. When did PEB drop all the marketing staff? Only as recently as the CR were they talking about putting more on!

[robbo24]

kiwidollabill - I have copied your comments made on the BLT thread insofar as they relate to PEB. I hope you will not mind, but they will be of great interest to followers here.

And this from the Newbie Corner:


I'm 29yr M professional and today I just got a job offer to move me from my current role (technical sales) into the banking/financial sector. So I should learn something along the way here too.

[Mista_Trix]

I think you're correct about that ... just didn't want to somehow mysteriously be charged for shares I don't want at the moment :-S
Bring on an EMA200 break, then I'll be a happier camper.

Nope, now I'm not so certain.
I had a letter from Link telling me they'd added them to my portfolio. Now I've just received another letter telling me they've taken them away again... could this mess up the numbers they're working with in some way? If its happened to me, surely its happened to others ...

[davflaws]

Nope, now I'm not so certain.
I had a letter from Link telling me they'd added them to my portfolio. Now I've just received another letter telling me they've taken them away again... could this mess up the numbers they're working with in some way? If its happened to me, surely its happened to others ...
And me also.

[kiwidollabill]

kiwidollabill - I have copied your comments made on the BLT thread insofar as they relate to PEB. I hope you will not mind, but they will be of great interest to followers here.

Quote:
Skid mentioned marketing (or lack thereof) as being an issue with PEB and BLT. Don't know much about BLT in this area but I do know that PEB no longer have any 'marketers' on staff and that the majority of it is done by a Dunedin agency.

This is certainly big news. When did PEB drop all the marketing staff? Only as recently as the CR were they talking about putting more on!

This may have changed, but ~6 months ago an agency was do the lions share for them

[kiwidollabill]

And this from the Newbie Corner:

Job offer came, current workplace offered me something better, staying put.

[robbo24]

I had a letter from Link telling me they'd added them to my portfolio. Now I've just received another letter telling me they've taken them away again...

Any context, or just the transaction statements? :D

[Mista_Trix]

Any context, or just the transaction statements? :D

Nah just those end of month statements that come out directly from Link - Although they've come out more frequently in relation to this, twice in as many weeks (adding, then taking away).
No transactions through my ANZ broking account though...

So beyond just providing what I'm experiencing, I have no idea what it means, or even if this is of any use to anyone :-S

[psychic]

This may have changed, but ~6 months ago an agency was do the lions share for them

Nah - Your info well out of date there then or you being told whoppers.
Sales force increasing from 12 to 18.

Here is the last CR doc if you'd like to get up to speed:

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/213913.pdf

[BlackPeter]

Nope, now I'm not so certain.
I had a letter from Link telling me they'd added them to my portfolio. Now I've just received another letter telling me they've taken them away again... could this mess up the numbers they're working with in some way? If its happened to me, surely its happened to others ...

Are you sure that they added (and removed) PEB shares to and from your portfolio? I'd suppose you look again - pretty sure they added just the PEBRD options to your portfolio - and obviously removed them again after expiration.

[winner69]

Nah - Your info well out of date there then or you being told whoppers.
Sales force increasing from 12 to 18.

Here is the last CR doc if you'd like to get up to speed:

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/213913.pdf


I think dr was talking about marketing -not sales people

[trader_jackson]

What a day, one of the best performers on the NZX main board, under heavy trading.

May the upward march continue (buy orders now outweigh sell orders 5 to 1)

(with Wynyard appearing to drop faster than a lead balloon, I am not sure how much of a success the capital raising at this rate...)

[NT001]

Good to see PEB defying the law of gravity. Just shows how little ST influences the market, eh?

[Mista_Trix]

Are you sure that they added (and removed) PEB shares to and from your portfolio? I'd suppose you look again - pretty sure they added just the PEBRD options to your portfolio - and obviously removed them again after expiration.

Oh come on mate I'm smarter than that :-S
Was / is definitely the PEB lot, and you definitely wouldn't get a link market services +/- letter for nothing surely... I'm left confused as to what's going on.

[golden city]

share prices certainly looks bright.., with the 35m.., they have quite a bit to work on for now.., so I guess ..if one of the big news come.., we will see the share price jump big

[skid]

Oh come on mate I'm smarter than that :-S
Was / is definitely the PEB lot, and you definitely wouldn't get a link market services +/- letter for nothing surely... I'm left confused as to what's going on.

so if this is a screw up (??) who has made it?----Is this becoming a pattern?

[Minerbarejet]

share prices certainly looks bright.., with the 35m.., they have quite a bit to work on for now.., so I guess ..if one of the big news come.., we will see the share price jump big
There was 7m to chew through before they start on that 35m as well, - should get them well past HY16 result announcement.

[skid]

Tell us some more medical and scientific information please Doctor.

Its quite amusing that when someone comes along who apparently has far more knowledge in this field than most posters ,he is personally attacked--I have'nt heard a decent scientific argument against what he has stated,only emotional comments that add nothing to knowledge.
Clearly drawing battle lines seems to be far more important than trying to get to the bottom of why PEB has faltered.
Any one who has a valid argument in terms of PEBs science behind the tests and how they are dealing with commercial uptake would be most welcome.

Please carry on Kiwidollar--most interesting

(I am surprised this has not brought out Hancocks--It would be interesting to know his take on this)

[Tsuba]

apparently has far more knowledge in this field than most .....

And it would seem, the way he talks, he is more clued up than the Phds working for PEB.....

Maybe he should knock on DDs door and offer his services.

[psychic]

Its quite amusing that when someone comes along who apparently has far more knowledge in this field than most posters ,he is personally attacked--I have'nt heard a decent scientific argument against what he has stated,only emotional comments that add nothing to knowledge.
Clearly drawing battle lines seems to be far more important than trying to get to the bottom of why PEB has faltered.
Any one who has a valid argument in terms of PEBs science behind the tests and how they are dealing with commercial uptake would be most welcome.

Please carry on Kiwidollar--most interesting

(I am surprised this has not brought out Hancocks--It would be interesting to know his take on this)

Sorry - must have missed something. What was it that he stated that wasn't discussed exactly?

[Minerbarejet]

Its quite amusing that when someone comes along who apparently has far more knowledge in this field than most posters ,he is personally attacked--I have'nt heard a decent scientific argument against what he has stated,only emotional comments that add nothing to knowledge.
Clearly drawing battle lines seems to be far more important than trying to get to the bottom of why PEB has faltered.
Any one who has a valid argument in terms of PEBs science behind the tests and how they are dealing with commercial uptake would be most welcome.

Please carry on Kiwidollar--most interesting

(I am surprised this has not brought out Hancocks--It would be interesting to know his take on this)
Yes it would be wouldnt it, but I doubt you will find him on this thread anymore.
So you may have to manage without it. Im sure Kiwidollar is more than adequately equipped, being a PHD and all, to assist you with absorbing the whys and wherefores of PEB's "faltering". If it proves to be inadequate might I make the suggestion that perhaps you and/or he buy some shares and take it up with management at the AGM.
Thats about as nice as I can make it.

[skid]

And it would seem, the way he talks, he is more clued up than the Phds working for PEB.....

Maybe he should knock on DDs door and offer his services.

Its far easier for a PHD to see when somethings not right,than for another PHD to make it right

[Tsuba]

Its far easier for a PHD to see when somethings not right,than for another PHD to make it right

That sounds like one of those abstract cryptic crossword clues. Would even have Confucius scratching his head.

[skid]

Im sure you can figure it out if you think real hard--but i dont think you really want to.

Rather than trying to cross examine KD to prove he is right--It makes more sense to examine PEB to prove they are on the right track.(In light of their performance in the last year)This is reason for concern IMO, and it seems logical for any investor who is considering investing (or leaving his investment in)
There are some pretty hard cold facts that can be researched,(if you have the scientific knowledge)
Otherwise you are running the risk of basing your investment decisions on emotions,and that doesnt always end well.

[skid]

Yes it would be wouldnt it, but I doubt you will find him on this thread anymore.
So you may have to manage without it. Im sure Kiwidollar is more than adequately equipped, being a PHD and all, to assist you with absorbing the whys and wherefores of PEB's "faltering". If it proves to be inadequate might I make the suggestion that perhaps you and/or he buy some shares and take it up with management at the AGM.
Thats about as nice as I can make it.

I read your posts when PEB was @1.70...and 1.50...1.30...1.10..1.00..86..76...and .65--Im under no illusions that you will ever change your stance regardless of what new information comes up--thats ok,everyone has their own investment strategy(I guess) but when new info comes along I believe its worth considering.
I dont think turning investment decisions into a competition is a good strategy,but as Mac would say..each to his/her own.
Nothing to do with you..I just dont agree with your process of investing in this share.--I hope that is ok to say,but like i nsaid its nothing personal--(I think your CDY is a good investment ATM)

[Carpenterjoe]

I read your posts when PEB was @1.70...and 1.50...1.30...1.10..1.00..86..76...and .65--Im under no illusions that you will ever change your stance regardless of what new information comes up--thats ok,everyone has their own investment strategy(I guess) but when new info comes along I believe its worth considering.
I dont think turning investment decisions into a competition is a good strategy,but as Mac would say..each to his/her own.
Nothing to do with you..I just dont agree with your process of investing in this share.--I hope that is ok to say,but like i nsaid its nothing personal--(I think your CDY is a good investment ATM)

Sorry Skid, what new information?

We now sell 100+ reported tests a week.

I suppose we wait for Tuesday, it might have new information

[Minerbarejet]

I read your posts when PEB was @1.70...and 1.50...1.30...1.10..1.00..86..76...and .65--Im under no illusions that you will ever change your stance regardless of what new information comes up--thats ok,everyone has their own investment strategy(I guess) but when new info comes along I believe its worth considering.
I dont think turning investment decisions into a competition is a good strategy,but as Mac would say..each to his/her own.
Nothing to do with you..I just dont agree with your process of investing in this share.--I hope that is ok to say,but like i nsaid its nothing personal--(I think your CDY is a good investment ATM)
Interesting to note that you only include the part where it was going down. I dont feel as if Im competing with anyone and you can disagree all you like. If you call the explosion of alleged facts from an alleged PHD under a pseudonym as new information you obviously need a new salt cellar. Patience is required on PEB and CDY not depression and focussing on miniscule fluctuations in the share price. So you do whatever you think is fit and Ill do what I think is fit and lets leave it at that before we bore everyone to tears.
Nothing personal, of course

[kiwidollabill]

Its far easier for a PHD to see when somethings not right,than for another PHD to make it right

I (surprisingly) concur with this.

I've stated previously, was that the smart way to realise the PEB IP would be to license the assay to one of the larger diagnostic companies. This would have been good for UoO but (assuming PEB become an amazing success) wouldn't create additional shareholder value.

I think the commercialisation unit of UoO (for some reason, full of people who hardly have any startup company experience) have realised the error of their ways after getting their fingers burnt.

Case in point is the below, fantastic new innovation project, opportunity to make a big impact in the industry etc.....

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/squid-gel-nets-uni-several-million-cw-87314

FYI these sorts of new products are 'sustaining innovation', compared to the likes of A2 (where I'm a bull) is 'disruptive innovation', anyone who has read "The innovators solution' will understand my reasoning here.

[Minerbarejet]

I (surprisingly) concur with this.

I've stated previously, was that the smart way to realise the PEB IP would be to license the assay to one of the larger diagnostic companies. This would have been good for UoO but (assuming PEB become an amazing success) wouldn't create additional shareholder value.

I think the commercialisation unit of UoO (for some reason, full of people who hardly have any startup company experience) have realised the error of their ways after getting their fingers burnt.

Case in point is the below, fantastic new innovation project, opportunity to make a big impact in the industry etc.....

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/squid-gel-nets-uni-several-million-cw-87314

FYI these sorts of new products are 'sustaining innovation', compared to the likes of A2 (where I'm a bull) is 'disruptive innovation', anyone who has read "The innovators solution' will understand my reasoning here.
Just a quick question $ bill, " Have you ever heard of PEDUSA?"

[psychic]

I (surprisingly) concur with this.

I've stated previously, was that the smart way to realise the PEB IP would be to license the assay to one of the larger diagnostic companies. This would have been good for UoO but (assuming PEB become an amazing success) wouldn't create additional shareholder value.

I think the commercialisation unit of UoO (for some reason, full of people who hardly have any startup company experience) have realised the error of their ways after getting their fingers burnt.

Case in point is the below, fantastic new innovation project, opportunity to make a big impact in the industry etc.....

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/squid-gel-nets-uni-several-million-cw-87314

FYI these sorts of new products are 'sustaining innovation', compared to the likes of A2 (where I'm a bull) is 'disruptive innovation', anyone who has read "The innovators solution' will understand my reasoning here.

More brilliance from Otago.
But I really struggle to see the wider economic benefit in selling the patent for "several million" , when it has such huge potential?

edit - are there examples of where UoO has had fingers burnt? You are surely not suggesting PEB has cost them?

[Tsuba]

More brilliance from Otago.
But I really struggle to see the wider economic benefit in selling the patent for "several million" , when it has such huge potential?

edit - are there examples of where UoO has had fingers burnt? You are surely not suggesting PEB has cost them?

He will get back to you once he has finished googling PEDUSA.

[kiwidollabill]

Just a quick question $ bill, " Have you ever heard of PEDUSA?"

No I havent, educate me?

[kiwidollabill]

More brilliance from Otago.
But I really struggle to see the wider economic benefit in selling the patent for "several million" , when it has such huge potential?

edit - are there examples of where UoO has had fingers burnt? You are surely not suggesting PEB has cost them?

Yes huge potential, where abouts is the expertise to successfully take the product to market to realise the benefits?

May not have cost in $$, but PEB and BLT has certainly made them very gun shy.

[psychic]

Yes huge potential, where abouts is the expertise to successfully take the product to market to realise the benefits?

May not have cost in $$, but PEB and BLT has certainly made them very gun shy.

If they are "certainly" gun shy you will no doubt be able to evidence this somehow?
You think taking things to the world is something NZud is incapable of right?

[Minerbarejet]

No I havent, educate me?
Certainly -
it is an acronym of Pacific Edge Diagnostics United States (of) America.
Now we have got you on the right track -good luck with your remaining voyage of discovery.
Must admit I was taken with your sense of humour regarding ATM.
Being bullish on something that comes from cows.
Very clever.

[kiwidollabill]

If they are "certainly" gun shy you will no doubt be able to evidence this somehow?
You think taking things to the world is something NZud is incapable of right?

How many other companies has UoO taken public?

[skid]

Jeeze,You guys are a real pac of wolves with the sarcasim,I'll bet any one of you would give your eye teeth to get a glimpse of the inside operation and when someone has,and doesnt say what pleases,instead of checking out the facts(like why are they using the old 30yr old technology instead of the newer procedure) you come down like a ton of bricks on a personal level.

Miner--your right ,I failed to include the rise from .50 to $1.70(on hype) those were the days eh?

[psychic]

How many other companies has UoO taken public?

I don't know, and would not claim to know - if I didn't; I don't know if yours is a relevant question, but to the point -
I don't know if your asking it answers mine... :confused:

[Tsuba]

You take this guys word as gospel Skid. He worked for one of PEBs suppliers. I don't think that gives him inside knowledge on the operation.

I don't think he is even prepared to tell us his exact role as a supplier or what he supplied them.

[psychic]

Jeeze,You guys are a real pac of wolves with the sarcasim,I'll bet any one of you would give your eye teeth to get a glimpse of the inside operation and when someone has,and doesnt say what pleases,instead of checking out the facts(like why are they using the old 30yr old technology instead of the newer procedure) you come down like a ton of bricks on a personal level.

Miner--your right ,I failed to include the rise from .50 to $1.70(on hype) those were the days eh?

Skid. I'm not totally convinced $bill has more inside info than you or I.

On the prep side, if the (very) clever people at PEB thought it was a good idea to change procedures from a 30 year old one (according to $) to an decade old one, for a miserable $100k, you don't think they would do it? Seriously? Furthermore, the process to purify DNA is by my understanding only one part of the sequence, and that is all $ has commented on.

He introduced himself by warning people against this stock. Have yet to read anything credible to demonstrate he knows anything about PEB at all tbh. No offense intended.

[kiwidollabill]

On the prep side, if the (very) clever people at PEB thought it was a good idea to change procedures from a 30 year old one (according to $) to an decade old one, for a miserable $100k, you don't think they would do it? Seriously? Furthermore, the process to purify DNA is by my understanding only one part of the sequence, and that is all $ has commented on.



If you read back, I stated that their prep techniques were a liquid-liquid extraction of urine (DNA is present at a low concentration in raw urine) followed by a manual spin-column extraction. They have been unable to transition to prep methods utilising magnetic beads, and hence cannot use the automated workstations I mentioned earlier. I'm sure the team would love to change their methods, however, due to technical shortcomings they cant. You are correct that the DNA prep is only one step of the workflow, however in this case it is also the rate determining step. If you are talking throughput and efficiencies these are the areas of concern.

And no, I'm not going to provide further detail of my previous involvement with PEB, I'll keep a shred of anonymity.

Yes, I believe (i.e. I'm providing my opinion) that UoO are now very gun shy of trying to commercialise their IP through the startup of new companies, particularly in the life sciences sector. This opinion has been formed from indirect comments made in a number of presentations by the commercialisation dept.

If you don't want to listen to my opinion then fine. However I (again, my opinion) wouldn't be comfortable investing in speculative/cash flow negative companies which I have little knowledge of their workings, or the industry they are involved in. i.e. I know stuff all about accounting software so I wouldn't invest in XRO, nor would I blindly follow the cult-like behaviour which treats it as 'the next big thing'

[psychic]

If you read back, I stated that their prep techniques were a liquid-liquid extraction of urine (DNA is present at a low concentration in raw urine) followed by a manual spin-column extraction. They have been unable to transition to prep methods utilising magnetic beads, and hence cannot use the automated workstations I mentioned earlier. I'm sure the team would love to change their methods, however, due to technical shortcomings they cant. You are correct that the DNA prep is only one step of the workflow, however in this case it is also the rate determining step. If you are talking throughput and efficiencies these are the areas of concern.

And no, I'm not going to provide further detail of my previous involvement with PEB, I'll keep a shred of anonymity.

Yes, I believe (i.e. I'm providing my opinion) that UoO are now very gun shy of trying to commercialise their IP through the startup of new companies, particularly in the life sciences sector. This opinion has been formed from indirect comments made in a number of presentations by the commercialisation dept.

If you don't want to listen to my opinion then fine. However I (again, my opinion) wouldn't be comfortable investing in speculative/cash flow negative companies which I have little knowledge of their workings, or the industry they are involved in. i.e. I know stuff all about accounting software so I wouldn't invest in XRO, nor would I blindly follow the cult-like behaviour which treats it as 'the next big thing'

Thank you for the full response. But my argument remains that we know they have the capacity to process tests in the numbers required for the next 3 or 4 years yes? In that time all sorts of improvements to the process may be made. But you seem to be dismissing the concept because they cannot currently handle tests in excess of what is required...

[psychic]

On Otago U. I wouldn't have a clue, but it seems a great relationship for both to maintain to me. They seem happy enough here:

http://www.otago.ac.nz/otagomagazine/issue39/features/otago080116.html

You realise the shareholding is only a couple million shares these days right?

[Tsuba]

The way I see it is that unless you tell us your exact role with PEB everything you say and warn us about has to be taken with a great deal of Sodium Chloride.

[skid]

Skid. I'm not totally convinced $bill has more inside info than you or I.

On the prep side, if the (very) clever people at PEB thought it was a good idea to change procedures from a 30 year old one (according to $) to an decade old one, for a miserable $100k, you don't think they would do it? Seriously? Furthermore, the process to purify DNA is by my understanding only one part of the sequence, and that is all $ has commented on.

He introduced himself by warning people against this stock. Have yet to read anything credible to demonstrate he knows anything about PEB at all tbh. No offense intended.

From my understanding he said they have not changed because their science is not compatable--Im not saying take his word as gospel --im saying to try researching the information he has introduced

It seems to make enough sense to look into

[skid]

The way I see it is that unless you tell us your exact role with PEB everything you say and warn us about has to be taken with a great deal of Sodium Chloride.

How about you Tsuba--are you a Chicken farmer from out in the bush----do you see where Im going?

Just check his info--It may or may not be correct

[skid]

Thank you for the full response. But my argument remains that we know they have the capacity to process tests in the numbers required for the next 3 or 4 years yes? In that time all sorts of improvements to the process may be made. But you seem to be dismissing the concept because they cannot currently handle tests in excess of what is required...

I think aside from the science and tests--market uptake is still the main factor

[Tsuba]

Not a chicken farmer but I do love my birds. A few people here know that as a fact.

But anyhow everything will come out in the wash eventually.

How about we all have a Twink and chill out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddLOviIZxlA

[psychic]

From my understanding he said they have not changed because their science is not compatable--Im not saying take his word as gospel --im saying to try researching the information he has introduced

It seems to make enough sense to look into

Skid. I don't know about you, but the processes of extracting and purifying mRNA from a urine sample, quantifying this by Reverse Transcription quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction and converting to DNA, amplfying that DNA a million fold , and detecting fluorescence flashes is , well frankly beyond me.

Like most holders here, I really do welcome the discussion, any discussion on PEB. But researching this part further and hoping to understand it - I personally cannot. I trust some incredibly clever New Zealanders to make these decisions and this confidence won't be easily shaken by a youtube video of some dated process that PEB's remarkable science does not fit..

But I am trying to pay attention.

[Xerof]

IIRC, from what either Hancocks or MAC researched and posted a while ago, each test takes well under a minute to process at PEDUSA. So what's the issue with their 30 year old process? just old-fashioned, not hip? Do we really care, or need to care?

I have to say, (and I'm trying really hard to not be judgemental), but I nearly inhaled my morning coffee to read that this person with a close contact with PEB has never heard of PEDUSA (their flagship laboratory) What did you supply to the company kiwi$bill? - pens or biscuits

[Crackity]

IIRC, from what either Hancocks or MAC researched and posted a while ago, each test takes well under a minute to process at PEDUSA. So what's the issue with their 30 year old process? just old-fashioned, not hip? Do we really care, or need to care?

I have to say, (and I'm trying really hard to not be judgemental), but I nearly inhaled my morning coffee to read that this person with a close contact with PEB has never heard of PEDUSA (their flagship laboratory) What did you supply to the company kiwi$bill? - pens or biscuits


I think he's in charge of animal supplements for wild game Mr Xerof Sir

[Minerbarejet]

I think he's in charge of animal supplements for wild game Mr Xerof Sir
I do hope that doesnt include Guinea fowl:)

[Tsuba]

I do hope that doesnt include Guinea fowl:)

He won't be getting any custom from me Miner ;)

[trader_jackson]

Another banter-central day... All very interesting as always, I was also thinking this morning (on a unrelated topic to today's discussion) If PEB are burning through say $10m this year, $15m next year and $20m the year after, they should therefore have a good 3 years before they need to even think about raising more cash, and of course by this stage we could be nearing the $100m revenue mark... (clearly I have made some big assumptions here, but still)

Was there an outage on sharetrader just a while back? With PEB's share price stable, and Greece reaching a deal, I am hoping PEB will be caught in the (what should be) upward market tomorrow...

[skid]

Im not sure why they would need to raise that kind of dosh if they were expecting that kind of exponential growth--But heck,all any of us can do at this stage is assume--so go for it:)

[barleeni]

Just read the last 4 pages. What a load of ****. If you wanted to drive kiwidollarbill away your on the right track, that is if you haven't already succeeded.

I wish I could get those 5 minutes back but I cant.

It would be appreciated if the ratio of on point comments could be increased somewhat?

[Crackity]

Just read the last 4 pages. What a load of ****. If you wanted to drive kiwidollarbill away your on the right track, that is if you haven't already succeeded.

I wish I could get those 5 minutes back but I cant.

It would be appreciated if the ratio of on point comments could be increased somewhat?


Mr Bill won't be going away yet - he is having too much fun.

BTW have you tried Red Seal Blackadder herbal tea? It's got a strong licorice taste - you either like it or hate it.....

[Minerbarejet]

Mr Bill won't be going away yet - he is having too much fun.

BTW have you tried Red Seal Blackadder herbal tea? It's got a strong licorice taste - you either like it or hate it.....It takes allsorts.:)

[kiwidollabill]

Just read the last 4 pages. What a load of ****. If you wanted to drive kiwidollarbill away your on the right track, that is if you haven't already succeeded.

I wish I could get those 5 minutes back but I cant.

It would be appreciated if the ratio of on point comments could be increased somewhat?

I'm just getting started.... Think the convo needs to switch towards market uptake (or lack thereof) and if their strategy is likely to be sucessful. Ive stated previously my concerns in this area....

[Crackity]

I'm just getting started.... ....

Thats what worries everyone.....

[skid]

You mean besides the fact that they just hit investors up for a pretty good size chunk of their actual goal--a couple more cap raisings and they will have made it.

[Minerbarejet]

I'm just getting started.... Think the convo needs to switch towards market uptake (or lack thereof) and if their strategy is likely to be sucessful. Ive stated previously my concerns in this area....
What on earth do you think we have been debating, if you can call it that, on this thread for the last two or three years?????
Tiddly winks? Market penetration of PEB into the USA and to whether it is being done properly has long been a big part of this thread with long term major shareholders, short term impatient traders, accountants, lawyers, spruikers, trolls all having a say.
If you are just getting started then perhaps a good read of the entire thread might give you some half decent background to all this and follow it up with an exploration of all the presentations, annual reports, clinical reports, etc available on the Pacific Edge website.
You should find plenty of information on PEDUSA and who is running it on there, the qualifications and backgrounds to employees,
and the incredible brains behind the whole concept.
Get back to us when you have finished, - there will be a short test.
Just kidding:)

[kiwidollabill]

What on earth do you think we have been debating, if you can call it that, on this thread for the last two or three years?????
Tiddly winks? Market penetration of PEB into the USA and to whether it is being done properly has long been a big part of this thread with long term major shareholders, short term impatient traders, accountants, lawyers, spruikers, trolls all having a say.
If you are just getting started then perhaps a good read of the entire thread might give you some half decent background to all this and follow it up with an exploration of all the presentations, annual reports, clinical reports, etc available on the Pacific Edge website.
You should find plenty of information on PEDUSA and who is running it on there, the qualifications and backgrounds to employees,
and the incredible brains behind the whole concept.
Get back to us when you have finished, - there will be a short test.
Just kidding:)

Sorry, my comment lacked context. The last few pages had been around technical discussion, thought it was more relevant to bring the banter back to previously discussed themes (as you mentioned).

Yes I've read through the majority of what you mentioned. However, I'd add the requirement to read up on other players in the industry and the areas of growth and advancement in molecular diagnostics. There's no point reading what PEB have to say about how wonderful they are without comparing them in context to the industry they are involved in.

I'll finish with a bit of 'hope' for PEB fans... A company called Centocor Biotech was founded in 1979 to commercialise two biopharamacuticals developed from the NY school of medicine. It took 18 years for that company to post a profit, eventually taken over by J&J where those two products make up 12% of J&Js global revenue.

[Minerbarejet]

Centocor sold its diagnostic division to Fujirebio.

[kiwidollabill]

Centocor sold its diagnostic division to Fujirebio.

I was talking about their biopharmacutical products, infliximab (Remicade) and golimumab (Simponi), Centocor became Janssen Biotech and bought by J&J in '99.

[Minerbarejet]

I was talking about their biopharmacutical products, infliximab (Remicade) and golimumab (Simponi), Centocor became Janssen Biotech and bought by J&J in '99.
Handy wee tool that Google, eh. :)
Without getting too far into last century's pharma quagmire of who done wot to who could I suggest comparing apples with apples and sticking with bladder cancer diagnostics as this appears to be the main thrust of PEB's venture unless there is some secret squirrel stuff going on that we are unaware of.

[twotic]

I'm just getting started.... Think the convo needs to switch towards market uptake (or lack thereof) and if their strategy is likely to be sucessful. Ive stated previously my concerns in this area....

Interested in your thoughts on the AHRQ report and if you think there might be anything in the update of significance to PEB? It's clear to me they are urging caution in this area, but with your technical expertise and knowledge of the area I suspect you might have some valuable insights. Cheers in advance.

[kiwidollabill]

Interested in your thoughts on the AHRQ report and if you think there might be anything in the update of significance to PEB? It's clear to me they are urging caution in this area, but with your technical expertise and knowledge of the area I suspect you might have some valuable insights. Cheers in advance.

Which report are you thinking of? I remember looking at a table of recommendations for bladder cancer screening from them, but I think that was dated 2012?

[pierre]

I have just returned from a holiday in Asia which included four days in Singapore. On one of our tours we passed several large private hospitals and there was commentary about the significant numbers of people visiting the country as medical tourists.

In light of PEB's recent announcement about their intention to pursue opportunities in South east Asia the following comment from the Singapore Tourism Board website is both enlightening and encouraging.

"Asia's leading destination for advanced medical care.

International patients come to Singapore each year for a whole range of medical care from health screenings to high-end surgical procedures in specialties such as cardiology, neurology, oncology, ophthalmology, organ transplants, orthopaedics, and paediatrics. In 2013, medical expenditure generated from travellers was S$832 million.

With well-respected doctors trained in the best centres around the world, internationally-accredited hospitals and speciality centres, medical travellers to Singapore can be assured of quality treatment.

As a multi-faceted medical hub, Singapore attracts a growing number of medical professionals and multi-national healthcare-related companies from various parts of the world to share and exchange their expertise, conduct healthcare-related research and training as well as host international conferences and events.

With Singapore's well-developed infrastructure and robust medical ecosystem, healthcare providers in Singapore are constantly strengthening their medical capabilities through professional exchanges and access to innovation in medical technology.

In Singapore, medical travellers can receive quality medical care in an environment that is safe and welcoming, with no uncertainties from political instability, social unrest, or worries about poor health safety. This is on top of an efficient transportation system, wide range of accommodation options, and a wide variety of leisure offerings to enhance the experience in Singapore.

Singapore Tourism Board (STB) works closely with private healthcare providers to expand their reach and referral networks in key target markets. STB also partners in-market intermediaries to profile Singapore as an advanced medical care destination and showcase Singapore's clinical excellence."

If PEB could achieve even 0.25% of that total $832m medical expenditure it would make a $2m annual contribution to revenue - it's clearly a market worth investigating despite the earlier cynicism of some contributors to this forum. The cost of a few flights to Singapore is small beer when viewed in the context of the potential opportunity.

[skid]

Thats very true Pierre,for a medical procedure,or maybe an MRI scan,which Im assuming would cost a fair amount of dosh in the west--but ask yourself how a bladder cancer test would play into the mix.
If your already there and have doubts about the condition of your bladder,well,why not--But air tickets to get it?
Its easy to play with stats but ask yourself just what situation would induce this usage for medical tourists.
The whole crazy notion of medical tourism for something like PEB was just some idea that came up on this thread.
Tests for Singaporeans or others near that can afford it makes some sense(but the numbers would be up for debate) But medical tourism --I dont think so. (for other procedures though ,it makes good sense and there is good reason for them to promote it,and tourists to consider it)---Ive saved alot on dental work.

[Minerbarejet]

The whole crazy notion of medical tourism for something like PEB was just some idea that came up on this thread.

If in doubt check it out
Pacific Edge Presentation to Australian Institutions March 15 2015 Page 11 quite clearly states that medical tourism is a focal point for expansion into Asia.

[skid]

I would be interested to hear how they think a $320 bladder cancer screening test is going to play out for medical tourism---All that reveals is more doubts about the competence of management,since you have pointed out that they really think thats a possibility.(I thought it was just us crazy share trader posters)
Would you fly to Singapore to get one?

[pierre]

I would be interested to hear how they think a $320 bladder cancer screening test is going to play out for medical tourism---All that reveals is more doubts about the competence of management,since you have pointed out that they really think thats a possibility.(I thought it was just us crazy share trader posters)
Would you fly to Singapore to get one?

I wouldn't because I can get one in NZ. People from other countries might not fly to Singapore for that purpose alone (unless they want to avoid the pain, discomfort and cost of a standard invasive test) but quite rational to add a PEB bladder cancer test to other health checks being carried out while they are there.

[skid]

Its possible--For those who are going for check ups.--From what Ive seen of medical tourism though ,that would certainly be on the outskirts of what it is all about.
most go for expensive bigger procedures--dental crowns etc.-eye surgery-hip replacement--that sort of stuff---Going for check ups is not the mainstream--Thats mainly done in your own country post op.

The ''doing while your there'' would be the minority.

Most would turn to PEB if there was cause for concern--I dont think to many would get the test as a matter of course--otherwise why not just stump up the $320 here.

[NT001]

I would be interested to hear how they think a $320 bladder cancer screening test is going to play out for medical tourism.
Would you fly to Singapore to get one?

Not sure that anyone is saying people would fly to Singapore from Norway or Patagonia just for a CxB diagnosis alone. But PEB have apparently sounded out the hospitals/clinics catering for "medical tourists" and apparently received positive vibes, which they obviously wouldn't have if bladder cancer diagnostics were of no interest.

Your condemnation of PEB's pursuit of this idea also ignores a number of factors. Firstly, since a single CxB test costs only $320 (your estimate), it might well be added in with other tests sought by a visitor, especially as we are told that in most countries good BC diagnostics cost a heap more than $320 and are invasive and unpleasant and probably less reliable. Secondly, it is well known that cancer sufferers who have one particular form of cancer (eg lung) are often hit by metastatic cancers elsewhere in the body such as the bladder as the cancer spreads. That's a major risk they have to be alert to and the Singapore specialists treating them might very well want it checked. Thirdly, PEB said putting its tests on the menu for Singapore clinics was not just to earn the revenue, but perhaps more importantly to gain recognition by highly regarded Singapore medical facilities which could generate flow-on adoption by other clinics and practitioners in the region and beyond. It's seen as a launching-pad exercise. Before accusing management of incompetence for taking the initiative and pursuing this idea, why not wait to see if it brings results.

[barleeni]

I would be interested to hear how they think a $320 bladder cancer screening test is going to play out for medical tourism---All that reveals is more doubts about the competence of management,since you have pointed out that they really think thats a possibility.(I thought it was just us crazy share trader posters)
Would you fly to Singapore to get one?

Mountains out of moleholes? My take on it is that PEB has to expand into new markets, it is an inevitability (is it not?). So, whilst considering new markets why wouldn't Singapore be top of the list? You are marketing to the regular citizens who presumably suffer the same health issues as the rest of the world, and as an added bonus you have the opportunity to tap into these so called medical tourists as a 'fringe benefit'

Is there anything untoward in my thoughts there? Skid do you have a particular reason that PEB should not be marketing in Singapore?

[Minerbarejet]

This is woeful. PEB has the best test for bladder cancer detection ( detect) and the only bladder cancer screening test(triage). Anyone suggesting that they are doing wrong by trying to get it to the market in whatever way possible to assist the unfortunate is getting a bit beyond the realms of common human decency.

My take on this situation is that the urologist, from the Singapore Hospital, involved in the PEER REVIEWED Triage Paper published in Biocentral as one of the reviewers is behind this, encouraging and assisting PEB to get established. Obviously impressed with the triage side of the test and they want to have this available for use in Singapore once the user program is concluded and verified as of benefit to everyone.
A medical tourist is anyone from outside of Singapore coming in for medical treatment at their facilities. Just across the border is Malaysia who no doubt have their well heeled, the same as Indonesia, India, China, Japan. These people may not have access to what they consider to be a suitable standard of healthcare in their home countries so will travel to where it is possible to get it.
They are being encouraged to do so and as a result whilst awaiting treatment; the hotels are full, the sightseeing is going on, meals are being eaten, the port and airports are busy and Singapore booms.
It has nothing to do with those that have cxbladder tests available in their own countries providing the standard of care is high enough in the patients eyes.

[skid]

It has nothing to do with human decency--The debate is about selling the product and the money it takes to do that and whether medical tourism is going to pay the bills.
I didnt say it was wrong to market to Singapore,for humanitarian reasons,but I dont think the medical tourism sector is going to pay the bills.
I can understand the point about people who already have some form of cancer wanting tests,but for all others,just how far are they going to go to ''rule out''--are we talking everything? Can you imagine the number of tests required for that(just the different form of cancer would really add up)
It would be great if everyone could get tests for everything and live a long healthy life--but thats not realistic.
Right now it all about whether PEB can use the considerable money they now have, to get their product out there and sell it.
Medical tourism works because well trained doctors do procedures much cheaper(cheap labor)
Will PEBs test be any cheaper there--if not it would be the exception.
To interpret the fact that i dont think this is particularly suited to medical tourism(in any meaning ful numbers)to mean that I think we should prohibit people from having access to a possibly life saving test ,is laughable.
If they blow this,in a business sense,then there will be no tests(well,maybe another company will have it)
So ,if theyve decided to have a go in Singapore,then you can hope that medical tourism may snag some tests --but thinking in terms of really meaningful sales is not realistic IMO
Meanwhile -Singapore is gradually losing its share of the medical tourism numbers(google it if you like)
the $320 was from goggling (it may be in Oz dollars)

The way I look at it ,the scientists have created a great and potentially life saving product and it has been put into the hands of the management--If they stuff it up ,you can lay the ''beyond the realms of human decency'' on their shoulders.

[Minerbarejet]

It has nothing to do with human decency--The debate is about selling the product and the money it takes to do that and whether medical tourism is going to pay the bills.
I didnt say it was wrong to market to Singapore,for humanitarian reasons,but I dont think the medical tourism sector is going to pay the bills.
I can understand the point about people who already have some form of cancer wanting tests,but for all others,just how far are they going to go to ''rule out''--are we talking everything? Can you imagine the number of tests required for that(just the different form of cancer would really add up)
It would be great if everyone could get tests for everything and live a long healthy life--but thats not realistic.
Right now it all about whether PEB can use the considerable money they now have, to get their product out there and sell it.
Medical tourism works because well trained doctors do procedures much cheaper(cheap labor)
Will PEBs test be any cheaper there--if not it would be the exception.
To interpret the fact that i dont think this is particularly suited to medical tourism(in any meaning ful numbers)to mean that I think we should prohibit people from having access to a possibly life saving test ,is laughable.
If they blow this,in a business sense,then there will be no tests(well,maybe another company will have it)
So ,if theyve decided to have a go in Singapore,then you can hope that medical tourism may snag some tests --but thinking in terms of really meaningful sales is not realistic IMO
Meanwhile -Singapore is gradually losing its share of the medical tourism numbers(google it if you like)
the $320 was from goggling (it may be in Oz dollars)

The way I look at it ,the scientists have created a great and potentially life saving product and it has been put into the hands of the management--If they stuff it up ,you can lay the ''beyond the realms of human decency'' on their shoulders.
Hopefully some people may be able to get their heads around the idea that PEB has not gone pleading, cap in hand to Singapore
"Please, please, buy some of these". Rather the opposite and the reason could very well be your " losing its share".
They havent decided to "have a go" like aiming for triple 20. Its a joint effort brought about by the valid and exceptional Triage report.

If there is any further need to apportion blame for failure prior to the event even starting then whoever wishes to do this will be talking to themselves as far as Im concerned.

[skid]

Mountains out of moleholes? My take on it is that PEB has to expand into new markets, it is an inevitability (is it not?). So, whilst considering new markets why wouldn't Singapore be top of the list? You are marketing to the regular citizens who presumably suffer the same health issues as the rest of the world, and as an added bonus you have the opportunity to tap into these so called medical tourists as a 'fringe benefit'

Is there anything untoward in my thoughts there? Skid do you have a particular reason that PEB should not be marketing in Singapore?

No ,if its not to much of a ''cash burn'' then why not--I just think some have an unrealistic idea of this medical tourism thing--Your ''fringe benefit'' comment is probably more accurate.

Ive gone for procedures but I would personally never go for a test of this sort (or a barrage of tests just to rule out, for that matter)unless there were already real symptoms.Then I would get tests here and if it was confirmed -then it would be time to consider expensive surgery for much cheaper there.

[skid]

Hopefully some people may be able to get their heads around the idea that PEB has not gone pleading, cap in hand to Singapore
"Please, please, buy some of these". Rather the opposite and the reason could very well be your " losing its share".
They havent decided to "have a go" like aiming for triple 20. Its a joint effort brought about by the valid and exceptional Triage report.

If there is any further need to apportion blame for failure prior to the event even starting then whoever wishes to do this will be talking to themselves as far as Im concerned.


The debate was on Medical Tourism Miner --settle down:)

[pierre]

I only quoted the Singapore Tourism Board report to give some context around the size of medical expenditure in Singapore ($832m in 2013) generated from tourism. Whether that is declining or not it is still a large sum of money and PEB may well be able to enjoy a modest share of that without incurring a great deal of expense to achieve it.

Gaining a foothold in Singapore may potentially also lead to future opportunities in other Asian medical tourism markets such as Thailand, Malaysia and India.

Criticising management for testing the Singapore market does seem a little over the top. After all they haven't suggested they're going to bet the farm on this venture:

"The United States healthcare market remains our primary focus and will be the main area of investment again in FY16." - quote from 2015 PEB Annual Review

I agree with miner - perhaps we should reserve judgement on the Singapore venture until we are advised of the results. There will be plenty of opportunity for vitriol, scorn and disparagement of management if it doesn't work - but also for praise, enthusiasm and applause if it's a great success.

[Tsuba]

I only quoted the Singapore Tourism Board report to give some context around the size of medical expenditure in Singapore ($832m in 2013) generated from tourism. Whether that is declining or not it is still a large sum of money and PEB may well be able to enjoy a modest share of that without incurring a great deal of expense to achieve it.

Gaining a foothold in Singapore may potentially also lead to future opportunities in other Asian medical tourism markets such as Thailand, Malaysia and India.

Criticising management for testing the Singapore market does seem a little over the top. After all they haven't suggested they're going to bet the farm on this venture:

"The United States healthcare market remains our primary focus and will be the main area of investment again in FY16." - quote from 2015 PEB Annual Review

I agree with miner - perhaps we should reserve judgement on the Singapore venture until we are advised of the results. There will be plenty of opportunity for vitriol, scorn and disparagement of management if it doesn't work - but also for praise, enthusiasm and applause if it's a great success.

Well said Pierre. And I think that is all that needs to be said on the subject.

Next topic please.......

Any Guinea Fowl questions feel free to have a chat.....

[trader_jackson]

Yes we should give management a chance at least to see what happens regarding Singapore, but moving right along... with our exchange rate continuing to drop faster than a lead balloon, surely PEB will benefit from this? and yet the share price has yet to move (almost to quiet on the trading front I think...)

Thoughts?

[skid]

I only quoted the Singapore Tourism Board report to give some context around the size of medical expenditure in Singapore ($832m in 2013) generated from tourism. Whether that is declining or not it is still a large sum of money and PEB may well be able to enjoy a modest share of that without incurring a great deal of expense to achieve it.

Gaining a foothold in Singapore may potentially also lead to future opportunities in other Asian medical tourism markets such as Thailand, Malaysia and India.

Criticising management for testing the Singapore market does seem a little over the top. After all they haven't suggested they're going to bet the farm on this venture:

"The United States healthcare market remains our primary focus and will be the main area of investment again in FY16." - quote from 2015 PEB Annual Review

I agree with miner - perhaps we should reserve judgement on the Singapore venture until we are advised of the results. There will be plenty of opportunity for vitriol, scorn and disparagement of management if it doesn't work - but also for praise, enthusiasm and applause if it's a great success.


Fair enough and I,after sleeping on it I realize the ''incompetence'' statement was a bit harsh(shouldnt have thrown that in to the mix) I officially retract it (I know ,its a bit late ,but still,better late than never):(

[pierre]

Fair enough and I,after sleeping on it I realize the ''incompetence'' statement was a bit harsh(shouldnt have thrown that in to the mix) I officially retract it (I know ,its a bit late ,but still,better late than never):(

Merci beaucoup Skid - I didn't take it personally.


Pierre

[Minerbarejet]

The next focal point for PEB is probably the AGM. Does anyone know if there is a live broadcast this year instead of a dead one or are we faced with another debacle from OneRoom followed by 1000 apologies?
Be good if they had subtitles too but that will probably fall on deaf ears.

[trader_jackson]

Yes, should there not be another announcement before the AGM (which is when again?), then this is likely to be the next focal point in my view as well.

As for the share price, seems to be sitting around 64c to 66c, with even buyers and sellers at the moment. I'm actually still waiting for Snapiti to come in and explain why the share price hasn't fallen into the mid 50's, after all it has been over 3 weeks since the offer period closed, but he did say something along the lines of 6 weeks (that it will then be in the 50's), so only half way there I suppose.

[Minerbarejet]

Apart from CMS, VA, KP, which could arrive sometime between now and 2017, probably not a lot before late August and the AGM.
Of course there is always the one out of left field that PEB is quite good at, never know your luck, eh

[Balance]

I like to invest in stocks after a rights issue. But only after I see management and directors and insiders buying too. Have there been any disclosures from management and directors participating in the rights issue?

[trader_jackson]

No disclosure from what I can see, I am actually not sure how much stock DD and other managers/directors actually hold, they could have participated and it may not have been significant enough to warrant disclosure. I know that Salt Fund Management, Westpac Banking Corporation and Harbour Asset Management have been disclosed as increasing there stake after the capital raising had taken place... some good names, but maybe not quite 'insiders'. These 3 companies now own 23.56% of PEB. Clearly they have confidence to own almost a quarter of what I classify a 'highly speculative' stock.

[Balance]

No disclosure from what I can see, I am actually not sure how much stock DD and other managers/directors actually hold, they could have participated and it may not have been significant enough to warrant disclosure. I know that Salt Fund Management, Westpac Banking Corporation and Harbour Asset Management have been disclosed as increasing there stake after the capital raising had taken place... some good names, but maybe not quite 'insiders'. These 3 companies now own 23.56% of PEB. Clearly they have confidence to own almost a quarter of what I classify a 'highly speculative' stock.

Personally I do not place much reliance on fund managers as I do management and directors. Seen too many fund managers over the years taking big positions in what turned out to be bad investments. Rakon is probably best case in point. Management and directors are true 'insiders' so more reliable. I think that management and directors have to account for any increases or decreases in shareholdings.

[Balance]

Checking on rules regarding disclosures by directors and management : The basic D&O disclosure requirements are:
• directors and officers must disclose relevant interests and dealings in relevant interests, within five trading days of becoming a director or officer or transacting in securities
• a director or officer has up to 30 days to disclose an acquisition or disposal of a relevant interest that was provided under a share top-up plan, a dividend reinvestment scheme, or an employee share scheme
• disclosure must be made to NZX and recorded in the interests register of the issuer
• the obligation to disclose continues for six months after ceasing to be a director or officer.

My reading is the directors have to disclose if they participated in the capital raising irrespective of size. Will be watching this closely. Either way, I believe will be telling on level of confidence directors and management have in company.

[Xerof]

Trader J, I don't want to burst your bubble but you are overstating the holdings of those 3 institutions. You will find that 23,830,213 declared as held by Westpac, are the same as those declared as a part of the overall holding declared by Salt. If you look at the Appendices on each notice, you will see that they have a cross beneficial interest via Guardian and BT.

Snapiti, if you are still with us, just saw your response to my post on how underwriters operate, from a few weeks ago. Thanks for the compliment. I will also direct you to the Harbour SSN for how many shares the underwriter has on account - 392k, not the multi-million number you were speculating they must be buying/left with ad nauseum on a daily basis throughout the issue period. Yes, I sorely miss the detailed contributions of hancocks, MAC and black knat too, but not sure I am the reason for them no longer posting. I can't think of anyone else worthy of mention who no longer posts.

Franco, a balanced approach so far......welcome....but whilst they indeed have 30 days to declare any uptake, I don't think they have. These guys have been in since the beginning, hold relatively large holdings, and were last seen as sellers. Yes, there is still time for them to declare, but don't hold your breath.
We know already that K One W One didn't take their rights up, and clearly quite a few others didn't either (me included, eventually) - isn't that why the Company astutely had the issue underwritten?. Well done them.

For existing holders it is always a question of personal circumstance, and risk management, and IMO, that equally applies to directors and management - it's not compulsory. For me, the timing wasn't right to be adding more. I've taken a lot off the table on the way down, as I was over-exposed. I am happy with my current holding, and will only consider adding to it once we see material traction in the USA. I think my perspective is probably quite prevalent across the retail holders

[skid]

I seriously wouldn't listen to Snapiti's repetitive 'contribtutions" to this thread.

Have you seen his performance in the annual stock contest? Says it all IMHO.

:cool:

Fishing for a response are we? And just when things were starting to settle down

I used to judge people by their standing in the annual stock picking contest too--until I realized that you only win by picking speculative long shots..
A year or two ago those picking PEB would have been right up there...but not this year.
I wouldnt place to much importance on that

Does look like the underwriters have pulled it off(but you gotta admit it was looking scarey for a while there)

[kiwidollabill]

Will agree NZ First Capital have done a good job keeping the price up (but it really is just bobbing around at the moment).

I think the lack (a subjective term which will be debated...) of uptake is concerning considering the amount of $$$ required to see these guys through to profitability. Any insight on whether there has been a search for offshore funds?

[nextbigthing]

I seriously wouldn't listen to Snapiti's repetitive 'contribtutions" to this thread.

Have you seen his performance in the annual stock contest? Says it all IMHO.

:cool:

Snaps gave me five 'hot tips' over the last year, which I didn't really act on. Four went up big time and one went sideways but that one pays a divvy anyway. Not bad eh.

NG didn't you buy in on PEB over a dollar on margin? Ouch!

[trader_jackson]

Personal attacks aside... the underwriter has done an amazing job of keeping the share price elevated, although I do think it is "losing a bit of steam"... another announcement of some kind, eg on one of the smaller user programmes, is now needed to keep/increase the share price (in my view)

(Oh yes and sorry if I miss stated the earlier numbers regarding ownership %, I genuinely didn't know, thank you for clarifying this for me).

[psychic]

Personal attacks aside... the underwriter has done an amazing job of keeping the share price elevated, although I do think it is "losing a bit of steam"... another announcement of some kind, eg on one of the smaller user programmes, is now needed to keep/increase the share price (in my view)

(Oh yes and sorry if I miss stated the earlier numbers regarding ownership %, I genuinely didn't know, thank you for clarifying this for me).

This talk of the Underwriter keeping the price elevated. Has anyone a shred of evidence of this? Why would they? The deal is done, the shares gone. Frustrating.

[Balance]

This talk of the Underwriter keeping the price elevated. Has anyone a shred of evidence of this? Why would they? The deal is done, the shares gone. Frustrating.

The underwritten shares went to sub-underwriters who presumably are happy to hold them, so there is no surplus stock out there. Why I am watching closely as shares normally recover after rights issue. Waiting for disclosures by directors and management to see if they participated in the capital raising.

[Xerof]

Yes, psychic, some, who staked their claims on this being a complete wipeout, just cannot accept the reality of it's success. They appear to have buggered off.

Now, the last bastion of any negativity to be attached to the fully underwritten, well managed rights issue is of course to keep asking/waiting to see if directors/management have taken up their rights.

Same story, different names, how pathetic

[skid]

I can always tell if the SP has slipped by the posts on this thread:)

Its the first time Ive seen the champagne uncorked because a cap raising didnt bomb:)

[BlackPeter]

I can always tell if the SP has slipped by the posts on this thread:)

Its the first time Ive seen the champagne uncorked because a cap raising didnt bomb:)

Personally I find a watchlist more convenient to monitor the SP, but I know what you mean. Looks like the SP just bounced at the MA50 and is continuing its downtrend ... maybe Snaps was not that wrong after all?

Discl: sold out prior to the cap rising and still lost money ...

[Xerof]

I can always tell if the SP has slipped by the posts on this thread:)

Its the first time Ive seen the champagne uncorked because a cap raising didnt bomb:) Looks quite stable to me, and volume is very low. I guess most current holders are happy to hold, with buyers awaiting news. Sounds like a perfectly good situation to me - sensible, given the track record so far. I suppose it will rise and fall on the index tide until something jolts it out of this state of soporific tranquility

No popping of corks that I can detect, just a commentary on the merits of professionally managed underwriting arrangements and subsequent execution.

[Xerof]

Are you sure it was champagne? Just because its yellow and a bit fizzy doesnt mean its champagne.:) It should be tested.......

[trader_jackson]

I agree with you Xerof, awaiting something to really drive the share price...

[nextbigthing]

Yes I did, and my portfolio is up 50% overall in 2 years.

Good work NG! Hopefully many more years like that to come then.

[skid]

It should be tested.......

Tests back--Its L&P (keeping it a Kiwi product):t_up:

[skid]

Looks quite stable to me, and volume is very low. I guess most current holders are happy to hold, with buyers awaiting news. Sounds like a perfectly good situation to me - sensible, given the track record so far. I suppose it will rise and fall on the index tide until something jolts it out of this state of soporific tranquility

No popping of corks that I can detect, just a commentary on the merits of professionally managed underwriting arrangements and subsequent execution.

I guess the good thing about that is that there is not the urgency that was present in past years--Gives new investors a chance to research and monitor for a while--or wait for an uptrend(sacrificing some early gains if they come but also avoiding losses if it happens)
Lots of possibilities both ways at this stage.

[Balance]

The underwritten shares went to sub-underwriters who presumably are happy to hold them, so there is no surplus stock out there. Why I am watching closely as shares normally recover after rights issue. Waiting for disclosures by directors and management to see if they participated in the capital raising.

Share price looking more attractive at 60 cents but still no disclosure notices from directors and management. More downside yet if directors and management did not put their money where their mouths were. But good upside if they back up their confidence in PEB with their own funds. Waiting.

[trader_jackson]

Yes how long to wait do you think? I am really not sure if they would or would not have put money in to be honest... I am still personally waiting for snapiti to come jumping in claiming that this was always going to happen as soon as the underwriter stopped supporting the shares (his main/only argument - although the underwriter actually stopped supporting the share price almost 5 weeks ago now).

I actually think the share price is trending downwards not because of management possibly not putting money in, but because of general tech stock weakness at the moment (eg XRO also down today)

Happy to hold and wait for a great announcement around a user programme

[Bobcat.]

From the Outsider Club:

http://email.angelnexus.com/hostedemail/email.htm?CID=28134641496&ch=7CE9B0A4883D3AAA517DA1CB7ECB9D84&h=6b28b4025c5c7d89e7570eb2e3444991&ei=szd7dkmNl

" Biogen's massive plunge on Friday — 85 points, 22%, $19.8 billion in market capitalization — was "it." The canary in the coal mine. The moment upon which market pundits look back in six months and say "ahh, that was the peak... that's when we should have sold the group."

Looking at the most recently published statistics from the NASDAQ (data as of July 23rd,) it's been clear that biotech has been driving the tech stock train in the current bull market.

Over the past 12 months the NASDAQ Biotechnology index has posted a 22.6% gain vs. a 13.3% gain for the NASDAQ Composite index, which obviously includes all the stocks in the Biotech sub-index. So, the real outperformance has been more than 19 percentage points over the past year, a startling figure.

Over the past five years, the performance gap is even more shocking, with the NASDAQ Biotech index rising 281.20% vs. 121.02% for the NASDAQ Composite.

But, what if Biogen's plunge is the beginning of a correction for Biotech, i.e. the beginning of a BioWreck? Well then, the NASDAQ Composite itself is vulnerable, especially since that index has posted an 6.5% gain thus far in 2015, well outperforming the S&P 500 (+.5%) and the greatly-lagging Dow Jones Industrials (-2.2%)."

PEB may have been caught up in this Biotech ill-wind blowing since Friday.

[couta1]

TJ Snapiti ain't going to come jumping in, check out the member list:cool:

[Xerof]

29th is the latest t-j, but I will say (for the third time now, in response to the mysterious algorithm that keeps repeating itself, once a week) that none of the directors or management have taken up rights. The only other recent rights issue was WYN, and as is usual, notices were issued within a day or two of the closing. Quite amusing how they took up their rights, but WYN price is much lower on a failed SSP, whereas PEB has been rather stable without the Directors support. Sort of makes a mockery of any theories that might be proposed on such matters, doesn't it?

you are probably quite correct t-j, markets are a sea of red everywhere, so PEB falling and rising with the tide. Low volume tells you there is not a lot of interest at the moment.

yes, and that too bobcat

I hope snapiti hasn't departed - yes, really - he has a contribution to make. On that note, welcome back balance from the naughty corner ;)

[Balance]

29th is the latest t-j, but I will say (for the third time now, in response to the mysterious algorithm that keeps repeating itself, once a week) that none of the directors or management have taken up rights. The only other recent rights issue was WYN, and as is usual, notices were issued within a day or two of the closing. Quite amusing how they took up their rights, but WYN price is much lower on a failed SSP, whereas PEB has been rather stable without the Directors support. Sort of makes a mockery of any theories that might be proposed on such matters, doesn't it?

you are probably quite correct t-j, markets are a sea of red everywhere, so PEB falling and rising with the tide. Low volume tells you there is not a lot of interest at the moment.

yes, and that too bobcat

I hope snapiti hasn't departed - yes, really - he has a contribution to make. On that note, welcome back balance from the naughty corner ;)

Very sad commentary.

[trader_jackson]

PEB was not caught up in the Bio tech rise in the first place so I doubt this is the case Bobcat, but time will tell as always.

[nextbigthing]

Snaps has gone.

[winner69]

Snaps has gone.

For good?

Shame if so, I enjoyed snaps's posts

[Crackity]

Snaps has gone.

Me too - think he understandably objected to being labelled yapiti.

[Balance]

29th is the latest t-j, but I will say (for the third time now, in response to the mysterious algorithm that keeps repeating itself, once a week) that none of the directors or management have taken up rights.

If directors and management are prepared to recommend a rights issue to shareholders, but are not prepared to take the rights themselves and invest as shareholders, there is no reason to have confidence in any of their statements and commentaries on the prospects of the company. I however will wait for the 30 days to be up before passing judgement and deciding to invest in the now below rights issue price shares.

[Xerof]

Haha, seems you've already well and truly passed judgement. You just want to keep the issue alive. Get over it - everyone else has

So, if it's confirmed they haven't taken any up, I presume you won't buy? But you will continue to repeat this line of thought ad nauseum, just in case some readers missed it the first four times?

I'm expecting an 'entry stage left' from another of your ilk on day 31.

[Balance]

Haha, seems you've already well and truly passed judgement. You just want to keep the issue alive. Get over it - everyone else has

So, if it's confirmed they haven't taken any up, I presume you won't buy? But you will continue to repeat this line of thought ad nauseum, just in case some readers missed it the first four times?

I'm expecting an 'entry stage left' from another of your ilk on day 31.

Not an issue to be 'diagnosed' away in a test-tube, much as some would like it to be. I reserve judgement until the 30 days are up as to whether the directors and management put their money where their mouths are. A case of their confidence in 'testing their urine' using CxBladder only? I will definitely be a buyer if they participated in the rights issue.

[skid]

Yes how long to wait do you think? I am really not sure if they would or would not have put money in to be honest... I am still personally waiting for snapiti to come jumping in claiming that this was always going to happen as soon as the underwriter stopped supporting the shares (his main/only argument - although the underwriter actually stopped supporting the share price almost 5 weeks ago now).

I actually think the share price is trending downwards not because of management possibly not putting money in, but because of general tech stock weakness at the moment (eg XRO also down today)

Happy to hold and wait for a great announcement around a user programme

Since you are still relatively new to this thread TJ ,Id like to invite you to go back a year or two and read the posts on this thread--and then decide if you would like to stick to your claim that snaps recent posts about the cap raising was his main and only argument about the dangers of investing in PEB(at over $1)--(since he is not around)...just to keep things balanced.
Im not so sure that the fact that PEB didnt rise with the biotecs is a sound reason why it would not fall with them
If they are in a precarious position SP wise,there is a possibility they would be more suseptable---This is by no means a given,but its a reason to stay vigilant.

I believe that the fact that many of snaps concerns about the value of PEBs SP has come to pass,makes it a bit harder to accept ,if you have losses on the board,but the fact remains ,that a penny saved ,is a penny earned.

At this stage there is probably no point in rehashing any particular claims from a former member--Its probably best to keep our hands on the wheel and eyes ahead.

It seems to me the best case scenario is that things are just taking a fair amount longer than anticipated and worst case is that management are just not up to the task--right now the clues are few and far between.

Its ''a big announcement giving a good lift'' vs ''a slow and stuttering along existence,with hopefully not another cap raising''

[nextbigthing]

For good?

Shame if so, I enjoyed snaps's posts

Yes.

Same Winner, he was well researched and happy to help.

[couta1]

Just for the record in Snaps last contact with me he believed that Peb could be a winner if they manage to successfully commercialise their products but at this stage he has doubts, in contrast he is confident in WYN being successful.

[Balance]

Just for the record in Snaps last contact with me he believed that Peb could be a winner if they manage to successfully commercialise their products but at this stage he has doubts, in contrast he is confident in WYN being successful.

One of those motherhood and pavlova statements - any company could be a winner if it manages to commercialize its products? Giving away thousands of free tests month in, year out is unlikely to lead to successful commercialization unless they can show high conversion rate to paying customers.

[couta1]

One of those motherhood and pavlova statements - any company could be a winner if it manages to commercialize its products? Giving away thousands of free tests month in, year out is unlikely to lead to successful commercialization unless they can show high conversion rate to paying customers.
True but only if the products are any good and PEB has A1 products something that Snapiti agreed with.

[Balance]

Who said they were free?

I say. PEB says. The users say. The user programs are all about giving away free tests. It's all fine to kick start the commercialization of any product with freebies but PEB is too long in the tooth to go from one user program to another. Should be able to leverage off earlier user programs already done.

[Balance]

That Singapore Hospital might not agree with your statement. They have a user program that is partly funded by PEB and this may have been the case in other User Programs

PEB provides the free tests.

[Tsuba]

So are you saying that some tests in a specific User program are free and others are not?
Interesting. Would love to know how that is worked out and why.

He probably has a PHD so must know what he is talking about. ;)

[kiwidollabill]

He probably has a PHD so must know what he is talking about. ;)

Well played sir

[Minerbarejet]

Well played sir
Might have caught a thick EDGE.

[skid]

Just for the record in Snaps last contact with me he believed that Peb could be a winner if they manage to successfully commercialise their products but at this stage he has doubts, in contrast he is confident in WYN being successful.

Wouldnt it be more relevant to find a co he had doubts about that has since done well?

We all think PEB has an a1 product--but is that enough? In a perfect world it should be--(and we wouldnt need marketing people)

[nextbigthing]

Therein lies the problem then. PEB pushing an a1 product when a2 is all the rage these days.

[Minerbarejet]

Therein lies the problem then. PEB pushing an a1 product when a2 is all the rage these days.
Lol. Nice one.:)

[Xerof]

So, no announcement then eh?

[Minerbarejet]

Maybe they are feeling so bad about it they are picking them up at .61.:)

[Carpenterjoe]

I say. PEB says. The users say. The user programs are all about giving away free tests. It's all fine to kick start the commercialization of any product with freebies but PEB is too long in the tooth to go from one user program to another. Should be able to leverage off earlier user programs already done.

Franko, how can you make a statement like this? PEB needs to prove their products are a time, money and life saver one LUG at a time, that is the point of user programmes. Most medical guidelines have exclude this technology simply because the financial advantages havnt been doucumented. Considering the product has only been in the market place 2/3 years and reimbursement takes anywhere from a month to a year. Having sales of 2 mill isn't bad. I am completely confused by your statement. What do you know that we don't? Long in the tooth?

[Balance]

Franko, how can you make a statement like this? PEB needs to prove their products are a time, money and life saver one LUG at a time, that is the point of user programmes. Most medical guidelines have exclude this technology simply because the financial advantages havnt been doucumented. Considering the product has only been in the market place 2/3 years and reimbursement takes anywhere from a month to a year. Having sales of 2 mill isn't bad. I am completely confused by your statement. What do you know that we don't? Long in the tooth?

I am long in the tooth, CJ. Just as PEB's user programs are long in the tooth. I am using simple logic here to assess the situation. PEB has been boasting of successful user programs since 2013. I fail to understand why it has to continue to do more user programs - the medical world is always super hungry for new discoveries, new ways of treatments and new ways to diagnosing diseases and illness, no?

[Carpenterjoe]

I am long in the tooth, CJ. Just as PEB's user programs are long in the tooth. I am using simple logic here to assess the situation. PEB has been boasting of successful user programs since 2013. I fail to understand why it has to continue to do more user programs - the medical world is always super hungry for new discoveries, new ways of treatments and new ways to diagnosing diseases and illness, no?

Just to make this clear, you believe/assume that a LUG operating in a country like Japan would be happy with a recommendation from PEB or a LUG operating in the USA to make a major system change to their BC diagnosing methods, without having the opportunity to try it themselves. Kinda like buying a car without a test drive, or a house with out going in.

User programmes will and should be a part of PEB's international expansion.

[Balance]

Just to make this clear, you believe/assume that a LUG operating in a country like Japan would be happy with a recommendation from PEB or a LUG operating in the USA to make a major system change to their BC diagnosing methods, without having the opportunity to try it themselves. Kinda like buying a car without a test drive, or a house with out going in.


Absolutely! Countries around the world do not have to have their own user programs to test the effectiveness of Viagra - it works in the US and it is GO right around the world! That's why PEB stated early in the piece that they targeted the US as it is not only the biggest market but also, is a lead market for medical break-throughs to flow to the rest of the world.

[twotic]

Says the guy who bought in over $1 on margin....

Very sad response from you there mate. Best not to stoop to those levels no matter how much of a knob NewGuy can be. Not to mention it adds absolutely nothing of use to the discussion.

That being said, New Guy is correct. Frank, you have a bit of work to do to get your head around this sector. My suggestion is you get in touch with some of the researchers involved in the user programmes in NZ. They are very approachable and informative, it will really help you to understand the purpose of user programmes, and most importantly what they are looking for in the case of PEB when they conduct them.

[couta1]

Says the guy who bought in over $1 on margin....
Nothing wrong with buying in over a dollar if you believe it could be a $5 share eventually margin or not.

[twotic]

Agreed but mods seem keen to ban others yet let his veiled abuse of a member continue. Hence me showing him his level of input.
I agree with that. Anyway, I better bugger off before I get into trouble ;) I actually just wanted to come on and post about the user programmes and give Franko a heads up on where he can start to get some good info to aid in his understanding of the sector.

[skid]

Nothing wrong with buying in over a dollar if you believe it could be a $5 share eventually margin or not.

There are just so many reasons that logic could come unstuck,Im not sure where to begin Coutts--Margin buying could merit a thread on its own---I guess the simplest answer to that statement is that you would have almost double the amount of shares if you had waited--(and of course no one knows if they will be successful)--Gamble if you like, but I would argue that there are plenty of things wrong with it.

Whether they are necessary for every country or not--we are certainly learning how long and involved the user programs can be.

I think alot of us at some point have lost sight of the fact that selling a product like this is a different animal than other consumer items (that ''catch on'' and take the world by storm) especially in those days of the initial SP run up.

Its been very slow going indeed (some would say because of not having a high profile business partner to penetrate the market)-- Of course the ''partner thing'' is just an opinion but I have seen other Biotechs take off much quicker that had some big names behind them.

If they finally do get in gear and make it on their own,even the most optimistic would have to wonder about the time it has taken--We are now 3 years into a goal of 100mil+the cap raise amount.

We not only need a special product--but everything needs to be special ,incl a crack marketing team,to go up against the big guns,even with successful user programs.IMO

[Minerbarejet]

Whats this we, kemosabi?
Are you trying to tell us that you actually have some of these shares that are the absolute pits and are taking forever to do what any schoolkid could do in ten minutes, etc, etc.

By the way PEB did not become commercially available in the US until July 2013. Its first full ( as in complete) financial year since launch has just been reported in June and we ( being a shareholder) are 4 months into the second full year. This does not make us 3 years down the track or anything like it

That blasted 100 million is like headlights blinding possums in some cases

[Balance]

Very sad response from you there mate. Best not to stoop to those levels no matter how much of a knob NewGuy can be. Not to mention it adds absolutely nothing of use to the discussion.

That being said, New Guy is correct. Frank, you have a bit of work to do to get your head around this sector. My suggestion is you get in touch with some of the researchers involved in the user programmes in NZ. They are very approachable and informative, it will really help you to understand the purpose of user programmes, and most importantly what they are looking for in the case of PEB when they conduct them.

I rely on the company's announcements and pronouncements.

This is what PEB said was their focus in 2012 (2012) : "User Programs are operating in Australia, NZ and the U.S. The extent of the programme is in excess of 2,000 tests in aggregate. Some have successfully completed, validating the utility of Cxbladder in the clinical pathway". We are in 2015 and they are still talking user programs!

[Balance]

Whats this we, kemosabi?
Are you trying to tell us that you actually have some of these shares that are the absolute pits and are taking forever to do what any schoolkid could do in ten minutes, etc, etc.

By the way PEB did not become commercially available in the US until July 2013. Its first full ( as in complete) financial year since launch has just been reported in June and we ( being a shareholder) are 4 months into the second full year. This does not make us 3 years down the track or anything like it

That blasted 100 million is like headlights blinding possums in some cases

Worthwhile examining the timeline on the $100 million figure : Oct' 2012 - "Pacific Edge is forecasting more than $100m of gross revenues from its US operations in the five years after the new Hershey, Pennsylvania base starts processing in March". So from March 2013 right? We are knocking on August 2015 so it has been nearly 2.5 years. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7827420/Pacific-Edge-US-lab-completed

[psychic]

I rely on the company's announcements and pronouncements.

This is what PEB said was their focus in 2012 (2012) : "User Programs are operating in Australia, NZ and the U.S. The extent of the programme is in excess of 2,000 tests in aggregate. Some have successfully completed, validating the utility of Cxbladder in the clinical pathway". We are in 2015 and they are still talking user programs!

By way of comparison, Exact Sciences had to run a 10000 n study for Cologuard before CMS approved it for colorectal cancer screening.

Relax..

[twotic]

I rely on the company's announcements and pronouncements.

This is what PEB said was their focus in 2012 (2012) : "User Programs are operating in Australia, NZ and the U.S. The extent of the programme is in excess of 2,000 tests in aggregate. Some have successfully completed, validating the utility of Cxbladder in the clinical pathway". We are in 2015 and they are still talking user programs!

What are you relying on them for exactly?

Regardless, you appear to be saying that you rely solely on PEB's announcements in trying to get a handle both on PEB and the sector it is in. Quite frankly I have to say this is a bit of a concern!! :scared: You are likely to run into massive problems if that is all the research you do.

I'm not sure why you are averse to doing some more substantive research... As I said the people I contacted about the CxBladder user programmes in NZ were extremely informative and took quite a bit of time to answer my questions. The other advantage of making contact with these people is that many of them are completely independent of PEB so there is no bias in that respect.

Perhaps have a rethink and take the time to investigate more.

[Minerbarejet]

I rely on the company's announcements and pronouncements.

This is what PEB said was their focus in 2012 (2012) : "User Programs are operating in Australia, NZ and the U.S. The extent of the programme is in excess of 2,000 tests in aggregate. Some have successfully completed, validating the utility of Cxbladder in the clinical pathway". We are in 2015 and they are still talking user programs!
Could be wrong but there may well be another reason for the User Programs. This may be the only way they can get sufficient numbers, lets say 10000, in order to get CMS approval, hence the delay in signing. The KP User Program of 2000 may put them in a good position to get that CMS agreement. It has been a long time coming as it was originally thought that Aug 2014 should have it done and dusted.
Maybe the goalposts keep getting shifted, not PEB's fault.

[Balance]

What are you relying on them for exactly?

Regardless, you appear to be saying that you rely solely on PEB's announcements in trying to get a handle both on PEB and the sector it is in. Quite frankly I have to say this is a bit of a concern!! :scared: You are likely to run into massive problems if that is all the research you do.

I'm not sure why you are averse to doing some more substantive research... As I said the people I contacted about the CxBladder user programmes in NZ were extremely informative and took quite a bit of time to answer my questions. The other advantage of making contact with these people is that many of them are completely independent of PEB so there is no bias in that respect.

Perhaps have a rethink and take the time to investigate more.

Thanks for your concern, twotic. I do my own research before I invest in any company. As the great Warren Buffett once said however, the best source of information to start analyzing a company is from the company - its annual reports, its announcements, presentations, publications etc. After that, it is a matter of collaborating the company's information with outside sources and testing the company's forecasts and expectations against actual results. Which is why I am asking the questions now about why the continuous user programs when PEB stated way back in 2013 that they were expecting commercial success based on their user programs to date then and waiting to see if the directors and management have participated in the capital raising they were happy to recommend to shareholders. Some good discussions so far and I have received an email from a prospective investor thanking me for highlighting the issue about the directors putting their money where their mouths are. He would have bought in otherwise but like me, prefers to wait now.

[Balance]

Could be wrong but there may well be another reason for the User Programs. This may be the only way they can get sufficient numbers, lets say 10000, in order to get CMS approval, hence the delay in signing. The KP User Program of 2000 may put them in a good position to get that CMS agreement. It has been a long time coming as it was originally thought that Aug 2014 should have it done and dusted.
Maybe the goalposts keep getting shifted, not PEB's fault.

You could be right, Minderbarejet. Be good then for PEB to advise shareholders and the market because there appears to be some out there who are eagerly waiting for the 'big' announcement? If it is true, could be a while yet before CMS approval is forthcoming. Of greater concern to me is the lack of updates on how many the tens of millions of clients of the 3 US national providers signed up in 2013 are using CxBladder.

[psychic]

Thanks for your concern, twotic. I do my own research before I invest in any company. As the great Warren Buffett once said however, the best source of information to start analyzing a company is from the company - its annual reports, its announcements, presentations, publications etc. After that, it is a matter of collaborating the company's information with outside sources and testing the company's forecasts and expectations against actual results. Which is why I am asking the questions now about why the continuous user programs when PEB stated way back in 2013 that they were expecting commercial success based on their user programs to date then and waiting to see if the directors and management have participated in the capital raising they were happy to recommend to shareholders. Some good discussions so far and I have received an email from a prospective investor thanking me for highlighting the issue about the directors putting their money where their mouths are. He would have bought in otherwise but like me, prefers to wait now.

Okay, so you understand the bit about ongoing User programs now then? Or do you maintain that the User programs completed to date are sufficient to change clinical practice and everyone should just get on with it?

I am not privy to the Directors personal financial situation so can't offer an opinion as to whether they should have tipped more in or not. I didn't, yet that does not mean I do not see value here.

[psychic]

You could be right, Minderbarejet. Be good then for PEB to advise shareholders and the market because there appears to be some out there who are eagerly waiting for the 'big' announcement? If it is true, could be a while yet before CMS approval is forthcoming. Of greater concern to me is the lack of updates on how many the tens of millions of clients of the 3 US national providers signed up in 2013 are using CxBladder.

Just note that the three you talk of facilitate payment only. They are not Healthcare Providers nor Insurers, right?

[Carpenterjoe]

Absolutely! Countries around the world do not have to have their own user programs to test the effectiveness of Viagra - it works in the US and it is GO right around the world! That's why PEB stated early in the piece that they targeted the US as it is not only the biggest market but also, is a lead market for medical break-throughs to flow to the rest of the world.

Sorry Mate,

I give up, comparing a range of BC diagnostics tests with a erectile disfunctional treatment. Kinda like comparing a Window to Carpet both products are used with in the same industry therefore both should sell the same! Good luck with your investing I'm happy with this bottom draw investment.

I'll admit I'm a little disappointed our products are not been sold in UK yet, but I suppose one hurdle at a time.

[Minerbarejet]

Worthwhile examining the timeline on the $100 million figure : Oct' 2012 - "Pacific Edge is forecasting more than $100m of gross revenues from its US operations in the five years after the new Hershey, Pennsylvania base starts processing in March". So from March 2013 right? We are knocking on August 2015 so it has been nearly 2.5 years. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7827420/Pacific-Edge-US-lab-completed
In August of 2014 PEB updated their guidelines regarding the 100 million.
It was stated they were looking at achieving 100 million in gross revenue after five full years of trading.
As the trading did not start until the company was open for business, july 2013, and the first full year was from apr 2014 to mar 2015 then I can only conclude that we have completed only one of the five full years of trading.
100 million is nothing but an educated guess given prevailing conditions at the time. If these conditions change for whatever reason and particularly the ones out of their control, PEB are quite entitled to restate their goals. Interesting that they still continue to reiterate that guideline though given all the hoohah but they could be a little more forthcoming on delays that occur and why.

[twotic]

Thanks for your concern, twotic. I do my own research before I invest in any company. As the great Warren Buffett once said however, the best source of information to start analyzing a company is from the company - its annual reports, its announcements, presentations, publications etc. After that, it is a matter of collaborating the company's information with outside sources and testing the company's forecasts and expectations against actual results. Which is why I am asking the questions now about why the continuous user programs when PEB stated way back in 2013 that they were expecting commercial success based on their user programs to date then and waiting to see if the directors and management have participated in the capital raising they were happy to recommend to shareholders. Some good discussions so far and I have received an email from a prospective investor thanking me for highlighting the issue about the directors putting their money where their mouths are. He would have bought in otherwise but like me, prefers to wait now.

OK. It just seems you are commenting and making statements on things you don't appear to know much about. In turn, it is slightly worrying that you appear to have little interest in digging a little deeper and finding out more before you comment further. Call me cynical but I am a little skeptical therefore of your intentions.

With all that said, I genuinely wish you the best of luck with your own investments.

[Balance]

100 million is nothing but an educated guess given prevailing conditions at the time. If these conditions change for whatever reason and particularly the ones out of their control, PEB are quite entitled to restate their goals. Interesting that they still continue to reiterate that guideline though given all the hoohah but they could be a little more forthcoming on delays that occur and why.

Agree with you there, Mbj. Credibility is critical and I think PEB's sp reflects concerns about their lack of forthrightness about why they are falling behind their stated commercialization objectives in the last little while.

[Balance]

OK. It just seems you are commenting and making statements on things you don't appear to know much about. In turn, it is slightly worrying that you appear to have little interest in digging a little deeper and finding out more before you comment further. Call me cynical but I am a little skeptical therefore of your intentions.

With all that said, I genuinely wish you the best of luck with your own investments.

Rather harsh, Twotic. Surely the forum here is for those of us who have questions to ask, and for those with answers to help. So far, the answers have all been guesses - nothing solid in my view. Don't like to invest with the blind leading the blind or worse still, the one eyed leading the blind! Have a look at Scales - the company makes forecasts, keeps the market abreast of how they are going and how they track against forecasts and more crucially, why. Plus management invests and buys shares at higher than IPO price. Been a winner for those of us who chose to ignore the negative sentiments. Would love to see directors and management do the same in PEB so let's see, ok?

[kiwidollabill]

Regarding the 100M target, has anyone ever questioned how this came about? Was it a "we estimate the accessable market is X, our penetration will be Y (based on factors 1, 2, 3) and based on similar companies and known hurdles this should take 5 years" or was it "this number looks impressive, investors will like it, lets go with that" *pats on back all round*.

[Crackity]

Regarding the 100M target, has anyone ever questioned how this came about? Was it a "we estimate the accessable market is X, our penetration will be Y (based on factors 1, 2, 3) and based on similar companies and known hurdles this should take 5 years" or was it "this number looks impressive, investors will like it, lets go with that" *pats on back all round*.

Mr Bill you should have asked them personally when you had the chance.

Plenty of meetings/site visits. Nice guys, smart too, but because they don't have the required experience they are having to figure it out as they go along. Makes timelines drag on.... sound...