PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[Minerbarejet]

Regarding the 100M target, has anyone ever questioned how this came about? Was it a "we estimate the accessable market is X, our penetration will be Y (based on factors 1, 2, 3) and based on similar companies and known hurdles this should take 5 years" or was it "this number looks impressive, investors will like it, lets go with that" *pats on back all round*.
Check out Annual Reports 2011 and 2012 for starters. The Chairman and CEO reports on what were known factors at the time are particularly interesting with the advantage of hindsight. It seems to me that the shapeshifting US Healthcare system and associated regulatory quagmire are PEB's biggest problem. Now that Congress are trying to unfund AHRQ does this open another can of worms elsewhere? These barriers were noted as possible regulatory risks in the reports but I think they may have underestimated the possible effects and therefore the delays. There was a chart, which I can no longer find, regarding the estimated market penetration which showed a 10 percent MP raising 100 mill GR anually in the 5th year. Someone may be able to help.
Regardless, PEB did a lot of homework on this and based their projections on known factors at the time.
What else would you use?
They definitely did not just pluck it out of the sky and there are plenty of warnings to all concerned that there are risks involved in many areas, some unknown.

[blobbles]

Regarding the 100M target, has anyone ever questioned how this came about? Was it a "we estimate the accessible market is X, our penetration will be Y (based on factors 1, 2, 3) and based on similar companies and known hurdles this should take 5 years" or was it "this number looks impressive, investors will like it, lets go with that" *pats on back all round*.

Actually, the first one. The company has stated numbers backed up by others for years. The basics are:

US market potential is approx 2m tests per year.
Full price per test is ~$500 USD.
Potential market size = ~$1b
Hopeful market penetration in 5y = ~10% @$100m

That's pretty doable if Kaiser sign up and a couple of others. If PEB gets written into the SOP (I can't remember what this is called in the US medical world!) of how they test for bladder cancer in the US, obviously that is going to have a huge impact and would give them a much bigger market share. That is what they are hoping for, but the politics and testing involved are huge.

[pierre]

I'm pretty heavily invested in PEB so have booked flights to attend the AGM on August 13.
If you would like me to ask a question or two at the meeting send them in on this thread. I'll package them up and submit to the company in advance so they have time to research their answers. I'll report back after the meeting.
Might be a good way to get clarity on issues of concern.
What do you reckon?

[trader_jackson]

Very nice of you to do that Pierre, as a % of my portfolio I am also rather heavily invested... so maybe a question around what year they expect to reach their 100m target and their side of the story on how they are going to get there? (thoughts?)

[Balance]

I'm pretty heavily invested in PEB so have booked flights to attend the AGM on August 13.
If you would like me to ask a question or two at the meeting send them in on this thread. I'll package them up and submit to the company in advance so they have time to research their answers. I'll report back after the meeting.
Might be a good way to get clarity on issues of concern.
What do you reckon?

Great idea, Pierre and thanks. Questions : How many tests have PEB sold vs how many have they provided via the user programs? What is the average cost per test they have achieved in US, NZ and Australia.

[Carpenterjoe]

Great idea, Pierre and thanks. Questions : How many tests have PEB sold vs how many have they provided via the user programs? What is the average cost per test they have achieved in US, NZ and Australia.

Franco man, I can see where your brain is going. But try not embarrass Pierre with questions that have already been covered.

[Balance]

Franco man, I can see where your brain is going. But try not embarrass Pierre with questions that have already been covered.

Really appreciate if you can explain where the questions have been covered and answered, and why there will be embarrassment? Are them not questions that any investor in PEB (shareholders and prospective shareholders) can and should ask?

[kiwidollabill]

So there were a few helpful (and no so helpful) answers to my question (which was an honest one) around formulation of the 100M number.

Another (serious) question around test pricing, $500USD is quoted above but the 2011 report states $300NZD retail, any market competitor comparisons? FYI direct cost for a melanoma DNA assay in a NZ hospital is ~$150+overheads+provider margin, DNA assays for HPV,CT etc are an order of magnitude lower.

[psychic]

Yup, noble gesture Pierre, but you are likely to be bombarded here with numpty questions by non-holders.
It's odd how this thread attracts and holds them.

[pierre]

Can I suggest that if you know the answer to a question that a ST member proposes, you should give the answer. That will assist everyone and avoid wasting time at the meeting. Oblique references are not especially helpful.

[Carpenterjoe]

Really appreciate if you can explain where the questions have been covered and answered, and why there will be embarrassment? Are them not questions that any investor in PEB (shareholders and prospective shareholders) can and should ask?

Mate, management from day one have said they will not be providing numbers on tests carried out.

Pricing will be all over the place, some tests are paid in full, some at a discount, some for free, most haven't even been paid for. Only "several thousands" have been carried out therefore any figure that is produced will be manipulated.

To be fair Franco you might get some of this information if you worded your questions a little more politely/tactfully? And if you went or are going to the AGM.

Please don't take this personally, but I feel from your posts you have another six months worth of research and monitoring to get somewhat up to speed.

Have a great one.

[psychic]

Can I suggest that if you know the answer to a question that a ST member proposes, you should give the answer. That will assist everyone and avoid wasting time at the meeting. Oblique references are not especially helpful.

Fair comment, but some should do a little research themselves before just banging away on here and asking for answers.

Kiwi$...... UroVysion CMS reimbursement rate about $500 US. This down 50% or more from the heady days. CxBladder outperforms.

[psychic]

Here you go.

https://www.codemap.com/abbottmolecular/urovysion.cfm

[Minerbarejet]

So there were a few helpful (and no so helpful) answers to my question (which was an honest one) around formulation of the 100M number.

Another (serious) question around test pricing, $500USD is quoted above but the 2011 report states $300NZD retail, any market competitor comparisons? FYI direct cost for a melanoma DNA assay in a NZ hospital is ~$150+overheads+provider margin, DNA assays for HPV,CT etc are an order of magnitude lower.300 NZD in NZ, 500 USD in the US. Possibly higher costs in the US, lab operation, personnel.

Just a polite suggestion, my not being a PHD and all, if you wish to have all this information I think you will find most of it contained within this extremely long running thread. As you work your way through it you will find answers to your questions and notice could be taken of the number of times subjects get repeated, questions asked and the same answers given. Maybe you could write a thesis on it.
I know its getting a bit unwieldy now but there is a great sense of accomplishment in reading the whole thing. There are some bits missing for reasons we wont go into here.
Worth a try at least. I have done it twice. Cant say I retained it ALL though.:)

[Casino]

I'm pretty heavily invested in PEB so have booked flights to attend the AGM on August 13.
If you would like me to ask a question or two at the meeting send them in on this thread. I'll package them up and submit to the company in advance so they have time to research their answers. I'll report back after the meeting.
Might be a good way to get clarity on issues of concern.
What do you reckon?

How many employees would be required to process 200,000 tests (with today's technology)?

[Balance]

Mate, management from day one have said they will not be providing numbers on tests carried out.



So ok for management to project $100m, reset target date for achieving said $100m a few times but will not disclose how they are tracking against the target? Interesting.
No wonder the sp is only 33% of what it was in Jan 2014 but I am not complaining. If PEB has potential, some of us will get in at a cheaper price. Waiting for SSH notices from directors and management.

[twotic]

Can I suggest that if you know the answer to a question that a ST member proposes, you should give the answer. That will assist everyone and avoid wasting time at the meeting. Oblique references are not especially helpful.

I agree pierre, however there is a lot of information out there via personal communication with various people in the sector and in my experience much of this information is told in confidence and not for public dissemination. I've been sitting here reading, seeing for example Franko bang about struggling to make headway understanding the user programmes, and suggesting he simply pick up the phone or write an email to get a bit of clarity. The fact that he won't do that speaks volumes about his/her intentions if you ask me.

Amongst other things, by contacting people directly I received a copy of a certain document that was at the time only available for people in the sector, I got some fantastic personal opinion from researchers involved in DHB user programmes, talked directly to some of the head scientists down in Dunedin, and even received an invite to apply for a position with PEB (which I didn't pursue).

The trouble is, it seems beyond some people to put in a little effort to source out info beyond an internet forum and the odd public announcement.

Anyway, I shall leave you all to it. I may get in contact pierre as I may well attend the AGM - does anyone know if PEB allows non-shareholders to attend the AGM? I shall contact them none the less.

[Xerof]

No, keep guessing - it's not that difficult to pick is it? same story of past two years - reset the clock and recommence the droning

[Minerbarejet]

Beam me up, Scotty

[pierre]

Anyway, I shall leave you all to it. I may get in contact pierre as I may well attend the AGM - does anyone know if PEB allows non-shareholders to attend the AGM? I shall contact them none the less.

I don't have the answer to your last question - probably best you phone or email the company.

[skid]

Yup, noble gesture Pierre, but you are likely to be bombarded here with numpty questions by non-holders.
It's odd how this thread attracts and holds them.

You can tell us by the fact that our posts are not so grumpy and we still have the option to jump on at a lower price if and when they prove themselves:)----but no,we dont have a badge and ID card yet and must refrain from high fives :eek2:-----I can live with that

[Balance]

You can tell us by the fact that our posts are not so grumpy and we still have the option to jump on at a lower price if and when they prove themselves:)----but no,we dont have a badge and ID card yet and must refrain from high fives :eek2:-----I can live with that

Scales just hit $2.00 mark - that's what happens when a company issues forecasts and updates the market on how they are tracking. Up 45% ytd vs PEB down 30% ytd. PEB could learn something from Scales about keeping the market informed but then, it is hard to update the market with inability to meet forecasts perhaps? Directors and management still shy about disclosing they participated in capital raising?

[psychic]

Yeah, growing and selling apples etc a little different to this. Maybe this one isn't for you?

[Balance]

Yeah, growing and selling apples etc a little different to this. Maybe this one isn't for you?

Analyzing businesses whether they are technology, commodities or utilities all involve following the companies, their pronouncements and how well they are delivering against the pronouncements. Happy with my method and was highlighting why Scales as a lowly thought-of commodity business can outperform PEB, a high flying biomedical company, by 75% so far this year. One big reason - in Scales, management bought shares. In PEB, management and directors have yet to disclose whether they participated in the rights issue after recommending it to other shareholders. I have my funds ready but looking likely by the day, I will not be investing?

Well worthwhile reading, Psychic - http://www.valuewalk.com/2012/02/value-investing-assessing-the-quality-of-management/

[psychic]

But Franko, the race is not yet over!

PEB went from .50 to $1.70 in the period prior to one you select, with the same management..
How do you expain that?

If your investment decision process is largely one focused on what others do and SP movements, then perhaps this is not for you.
There is a little more to get your head around with this one.

There have been other things that have influenced the share price of each but yes, leave this and look elsewhere.

Buy more Scales! (I did..)

[Balance]

But Franko, the race is not yet over!

PEB went from .50 to $1.70 in the period prior to one you select, with the same management..
How do you expain that?

If your investment decision process is largely one focused on what others do and SP movements, then perhaps this is not for you.
There is a little more to get your head around with this one.

There have been other things that have influenced the share price of each but yes, leave this and look elsewhere.

Buy more Scales! (I did..)

Explanation - a lot of hype around that time with investors not fully understanding that signing up the national providers do not = sales? Also, Directors and management exuberantly predicting huge sales for the company following the announcements? Predictions of profitability with the capital raising at that time? For clarification, I was examining the track record of the two companies in setting forecasts and expectations and how management have measured up this year. In one, management updated the market with sales and bought shares. In the other, management will not disclose or update sales and we are still awaiting whether they participated in the rights issue. PS. Bought more scales last week too, so cheers!

[Minerbarejet]

Explanation - a lot of hype around that time with investors not fully understanding that signing up the national providers do not = sales? Also, Directors and management exuberantly predicting huge sales for the company following the announcements? Predictions of profitability with the capital raising at that time? For clarification, I was examining the track record of the two companies in setting forecasts and expectations and how management have measured up this year. In one, management updated the market with sales and bought shares. In the other, management will not disclose or update sales and we are still awaiting whether they participated in the rights issue. PS. Bought more scales last week too, so cheers!Its amazing how quickly you are getting up to speed on all this, Franko. I can see you are going to be a force to be reckoned with. However being too forceful can sometimes lead to trouble. I can arrange a QC if need be.

[Crackity]

Its amazing how quickly you are getting up to speed on all this, Franko. I can see you are going to be a force to be reckoned with. However being too forceful can sometimes lead to trouble. I can arrange a QC if need be.

And the VML thread needs some attention too:)

[Balance]

This is a thread with an outstanding amount of debate and postings, both positive and negative. Not difficult to get up to date by reading the postings. My assessment - sp tells it all so far. Pity about the casualties along the way. Hope to have a few cheaper PEB shares in my portfolio but only if directors have put their mouth where their mouths are.

[Minerbarejet]

This is a thread with an outstanding amount of debate and postings, both positive and negative. Not difficult to get up to date by reading the postings. My assessment - sp tells it all so far. Pity about the casualties along the way. Hope to have a few cheaper PEB shares in my portfolio but only if directors have put their mouth where their mouths are.
That makes perfect sense, Franko

[Carpenterjoe]

Interesting reading KP Annual report, one figure really stood out. They have screened 1.7 million people for Colorectal Cancer, I believe they use the FIT test. Outlines the importance of dealing with a progressive organisation like KP.

[psychic]

Explanation - a lot of hype around that time with investors not fully understanding that signing up the national providers do not = sales? Also, Directors and management exuberantly predicting huge sales for the company following the announcements? Predictions of profitability with the capital raising at that time? For clarification, I was examining the track record of the two companies in setting forecasts and expectations and how management have measured up this year. In one, management updated the market with sales and bought shares. In the other, management will not disclose or update sales and we are still awaiting whether they participated in the rights issue. PS. Bought more scales last week too, so cheers!

Sorry for the gap. Been to the pub.

How do you mean?

[psychic]

Interesting reading KP Annual report, one figure really stood out. They have screened 1.7 million people for Colorectal Cancer, I believe they use the FIT test. Outlines the importance of dealing with a progressive organisation like KP.

The KP Triage trial is very significant for sure CJoe.

Very interesting that Steven Jacobsen has personally taken the study over from the Researcher handling it till now,

Steven Jacobsen is the Senior Director of Research at KP

http://www.kp-scalresearch.org/Research/Scientist.aspx?eid=556

Note his PhD Epidemiology

Epidemiology is the science that studies the patterns, causes, and effects of health and disease conditions in defined populations. It is the cornerstone of public health, and informs policy decisions and evidence-based practice by identifying risk factors for disease and targets for preventive healthcare

Someone capable of instigating change in clinical practice?

[Xerof]

He's taking the piss comparing this to selling apples isn't he.

:D

Have we had a director announcement yet? May as well try to get the question out there 10 times this week. It might go viral.....

[psychic]

Nope, still no announcement. Lets be Frank, THIS IS KILLING ME!
An unbalanced comparison? Several tens of thousands might agree..

[Crackity]

He's taking the piss comparing this to selling apples isn't he.

:D

...

thats quite an appropriate analogy bearing in mind this company's reason d'être Mr Xerof Sir. I believe you are correct.

[trader_jackson]

You can't compare Pacific Edge to Scales, that is literally like comparing Apples to, well, healthcare...

Looks like it will be an interesting annual meeting, I have no doubt quite a few questions will be raised, and, as always, the answers will be interesting... looking forward to it (although I won't be there)

[Balance]

You can't compare Pacific Edge to Scales, that is literally like comparing Apples to, well, healthcare...

Looks like it will be an interesting annual meeting, I have no doubt quite a few questions will be raised, and, as always, the answers will be interesting... looking forward to it (although I won't be there)

Warren Buffett will beg to disagree with your assessment. The first principles of investing apply to all companies across all industries and all countries.

[Crackity]

Warren Buffett will beg to disagree with your assessment. The first principles of investing apply to all companies across all industries and all countries.

Buffett's Choice Of InvestmentsHis first rule of investing is to limit investments to a “circle of competence”. This means that he invests in only those businesses which he understands completely. According to the “Oracle of Omaha” all investments require adequate analysis for which one requires to know the inside out about a business.


I see where you are going with this now Franko - :) - please re read the entire thread a couple of times and report back?

[skid]

i believe there is an element of truth in both of your points of view--there are certain basics that can be applied to all businesses and there are some very important differences (one important one is what the product is and the channels it sells through)--Knowing the business ''inside out '' would be important in all cases and the difficulty of this would vary according to many things. Do we know PEB inside out?--Well we certainly know alot about the product and the science behind it--but the jury is still out on how well they are going to bring it to the market--They have yet to establish a track record in this area--I think it would be fair to say that most are counting on the KP trials to bear fruit so time will tell on that one (in terms of how long it takes and just how much fruit it bears)

[Minerbarejet]

haha, well played. I should have quessed this.

So good to have you back, b*l*n*e :t_down:

ugh.
Crikey, are you suggesting that Franko is out of balance. :scared:
Nah, cant be, the STMods wouldnt allow that.
What if everyone changed their name willy nilly without persimmon.

[Crackity]

Crikey, are you suggesting that Franko is out of balance. :scared:
Nah, cant be, the STMods wouldnt allow that.
What if everyone changed their name willy nilly without persimmon.

balnce / Robbo / the moose - it would be persimmons all over the garden

[Xerof]

do we have a willy nilly yet - I might use that, and recommence old agenda's from the beginning under the guise of being a new entrant - what a crock - absolutely gutless behaviour

[Tsuba]

do we have a willy nilly yet - I might use that, and recommence old agenda's from the beginning under the guise of being a new entrant - what a crock - absolutely gutless behaviour

I should sign up Twink Miner...... He has a pretty balanced view on things even though he is blind in one eye like many here. ;)

[Minerbarejet]

I should sign up Twink Miner...... He has a pretty balanced view on things even though he is blind in one eye like many here. ;)Should have called him Wink or even Blink.
Nod might run a fowl of ST rules.:)

Pacific Edge seems to be trapped "in irons" flapping around at .60, waiting for a breath of fresh input to get things going again. AGM soon, maybe that might stir things up if they can repair the rudder and give us some direction. Bound to be some wind there.

[skid]

so far that .60 has been an almost iron clad resistance on the down side........is this another challenge?

considering that I almost got pinged for insinuating that one new poster was an old one reincarnated-you guys have been running rampant :ohmy:

[Minerbarejet]

At 60 or 70 something Im afraid both running and rampant are no longer in my vocabulary.
Cheers
Miner:)

[Crackity]

considering that I almost got pinged for insinuating that one new poster was an old one reincarnated-you guys have been running rampant :ohmy:


Wheras actually 2 or 3 are actually The Walking Dead....

[Xerof]

Sniff sniff......hmmmm, moose pooh

:eek2:

[skid]

At 60 or 70 something Im afraid both running and rampant are no longer in my vocabulary.
Cheers
Miner:)

Cmon Miner--Im 65 and riding a rented motor bike through Myanmar and Northern Thailand (my mates 78)--Ive only just found out we were 1 small step ahead of all the flooding:ohmy:

PS--Its not as hard as it sounds and a great way to see the culture:)

PSS--you dont have to run to ride--how about ''riding rampant'':)

[Balance]

Start of a new week, but the last week to see if SSH notices will be made by directors and management of PEB in respect of the rights issue - did they put their money (and credibility) where their mouths are? http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/345028/pacific-edge-seeks-last-capital-raising "Dunedin based Pacific Edge hopes its shareholders will ''step up'' for its forthcoming $35.3 million capital raising - which should be its last." Last I read, shareholders include directors and management. Did they 'step up'? :mellow:

[couta1]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, Franko, and say that no one is really interested to hear you regurgitate the same crap day after day under a new handle. Its very sad and rather a waste of space.

Thanks
Silence those bleating lambs way to go NG:cool:

[Balance]

There are none so blind as those with eyes but will not see, and none so dumb as those with ears but will not hear?

[Minerbarejet]

Start of a new week, but the last week to see if SSH notices will be made by directors and management of PEB in respect of the rights issue - did they put their money (and credibility) where their mouths are? http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/345028/pacific-edge-seeks-last-capital-raising "Dunedin based Pacific Edge hopes its shareholders will ''step up'' for its forthcoming $35.3 million capital raising - which should be its last." Last I read, shareholders include directors and management. Did they 'step up'? :mellow:
How would we know if they did what possibly a good proportion of shareholders did. Sold down to cover the rights uptake. Net result. No change in numbers , no notice needed
Basing the decision to buy or sell solely on what directors are doing may need a bit more investigation than relying on SSH notices.
Seems a bit daft trying to worry this thing to death. Its all over.

[twotic]

It really is very sad that you were banned but came back under a new handle to spout the same crap day after day. It actually beggars belief.

Ask yourself this: Is this actually the most interesting thing I can do with all my spare time? If so, I feel extremely sorry for you, and all the posters that have to endure it all again.

*Yawn*

I don't follow this fullahs posts closely enough, but I am interested who his old profile was. Would u mind sharing?

[Balance]

How would we know if they did what possibly a good proportion of shareholders did. Sold down to cover the rights uptake. Net result. No change in numbers , no notice needed
Basing the decision to buy or sell solely on what directors are doing may need a bit more investigation than relying on SSH notices.
Seems a bit daft trying to worry this thing to death. Its all over.

As directors and management, if they do that, they would have to disclose their sales first - "directors and officers must disclose relevant interests and dealings in relevant interests, within five trading days of becoming a director or officer or transacting in securities." So that can be discounted immediately, unless they are already in violation of their SSH obligations!

It's not over as many would be rather alarmed that directors would urge shareholders (and they are shareholders too) to step up but not step up themselves, surely? Anyway, a few more days for SSH disclosures.

[Minerbarejet]

For a guideline on this maybe you should go rushing back to the CR in 2013 and see what happened there with uptakes by directors. Personally I couldnt care less so I wont be looking it up for you.
That should keep you occupied while you await developments.
Take care and do have a nice day.

[Joshuatree]

[QUOTE=NewGuy;584178]It really is very sad that you were banned but came back under a new handle to spout the same crap day after day. It actually beggars belief.

Ask yourself this: Is this actually the most interesting thing I can do with all my spare time? If so, I feel extremely sorry for you, and all the posters that have to endure it all again.

Welcome back Franko :t_up: great to have your opinions again .As opposed to others who never offer anything but criticism and one line judgements

[twotic]

Stop feeding the troll, miner!

Twotic: I don't want to throw the thread out of BALANCE, but hopefully this post assists.

Thanks mate, appreciate it. Well it certainly makes sense with all the posts about the directors. I have to say though Balance/Franco is certainly slipping. I don't recall balance being so sloppy with his research.

[twotic]

It's not over as many would be rather alarmed that directors would urge shareholders (and they are shareholders too) to step up but not step up themselves, surely? Anyway, a few more days for SSH disclosures.

So just to clear the air, is this Balance resurrected or not? appreciate your honesty in advance ;)

I think it's kind of important for the sake of open disclosure. Balance I recall used to be a very bullish PEB holder who then sold, at the very least the majority of his shares, perhaps even all?

[trader_jackson]

I have already assumed the directors didn't have 10's or 100's of thousands of $$ lying around to put in... the way I see it is that if directors etc did fully support the capital raising, then this would be an added bonus...

Does anyone know why PEB is currently up 5%? is there some "whispers" going around or something?

[twotic]

I have already assumed the directors didn't have 10's or 100's of thousands of $$ lying around to put in... the way I see it is that if directors etc did fully support the capital raising, then this would be an added bonus...

Does anyone know why PEB is currently up 5%? is there some "whispers" going around or something?

only $12000 volume and still in that low 60c range I wouldn't read to much into it at all, sorry.

[Leftfield]

Agree re today New Guy. AGM 13 August. Maybe time to get excited then (or not?) Only good news will really lift the SP.

[Cricketfan]

I think it will take amazing news to lift the SP, which I think will be years away if ever.

[trader_jackson]

Share price is still at 63c... and volume is now quite heavy (over half a million shares traded)... nobody now selling till 64... maybe some whispers are going around... I expect an announcement regarding one of the user programmes 'soon' (ie before the end of the year for sure - surely?). I do agree that it will take a positive announcement to lift the share price otherwise it will continue in the low 60's

[pierre]

As Left Field indicated there could a degree of anticipation with the AGM coming up next week. With a bit of judicious planning PEB may able to sign and announce a new agreement on that day (and avoid any further drama with the FMA)....?

Or maybe not.... good things take time.

Anyway, I'm flying down to the meeting so I can look them in the eyes - and I'm packing a bottle of bubbly just in case!

Bonne chance to us all.

[Longhaul]

There has been a lot of volume in the 60 - 65 range lately.

Anyone want to hazard a guess what's going on?

[skid]

Ill hazard 2 guesses,-Either there is some inside trading going on-or it is normal fluctuations in the SP

(but dont let me sidetrack some of you from accusing posters,of being other previous posters)...and other important stuff like that.

[Minerbarejet]

Might be the directors buying up large so they can put out a SSH notice this week. Lol:)

[Balance]

Interesting. A few cents movement and the 'long term could not care about short term price movements' brigade gets excited. The long drop from $1.70 to 61 cents obviously was not worth mentioning?

[Balance]

Interesting. A few cents movement and the 'long term could not care about short term price movements' brigade gets excited. The long drop from $1.70 to 61 cents obviously was not worth mentioning?

Similar to comments about 'it does not bother us that directors are missing forecasts, expectations, making misstatements, getting fined by FMA and not putting their money where their mouths are'?

[trader_jackson]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/267904

Not the SSH notice Franko was wanting... but yet another funds management firm taking a major stake in PEB... but hey, what does it mean to have several funds management firms make a major investment in PEB? clearly this is not a sign of confidence and lets only rely on if management have taken up positions, and ignore what the professionals are doing...

(heavy sarcasm intended: thought I would have a go at what Franko is doing "keep banging the old drum in the background")

[Longhaul]

Sorry for my ignorance but who are the other funds?

Nevermind. Westpac, Salt, Harbour Asset and now Devon I guess. Anyone else?

[trader_jackson]

I am not sure on Westpac... I remember another member telling me they were holding on behalf of someone, but those are the ones who have recently (about since annual results posted not that long ago) come to light... probably more but not sure

[Minerbarejet]

Here you go:




BT Investment Management Ltd. (Investment Management)
Superlife Investments Ltd.
Christopher & Banks Private Equity Ltd.

[skid]

Sorry for my ignorance but who are the other funds?

Nevermind. Westpac, Salt, Harbour Asset and now Devon I guess. Anyone else?


And shareholders of course with the cap raising---Only one thing missing from the equation now.

[skid]

So far we have had 2 posters who apparently have had direct relations with Pacific Edge and both appear to be leaning the same way(although they are still interested enough to follow the thread occasionally)
Now we of course dont know if what they say is true,but I find it interesting that as of yet we have not had anyone who has actually had contact professionally who is ''all in'' at this stage.

.63 has held so many posters will be happy with that(even if it took news of a fund to keep it there).

Meanwhile the ghosts of Moosie-Sparky-Mac-Balance and Snaps all lurk in posters minds ---What a hoot!:)

[trader_jackson]

Yes I for one am happy that it has held roughly around .63

What I do find interesting is how fast it seems to fluctuate around this, in the past couple of days it has gone from sufficient support for .63 that it looks like it will push and hold at .64, then suddenly drops away to the point it looks like it'll be under .60 in no time, now, suddenly again there is large support for .63, these might only be 5% of so fluctuations I realise, but given they have basically announced nothing material for the past couple of weeks now (almost a month maybe).. I do find it quite volatile...

Seems like the professionals [ie fund managers] are getting in on what could be retail, "quick buck" stupidity [like what seemed to be frantic selling during the capital raising]... as demonstrated by yet another SSH notice by a major institution [is this the 6th institution to now come on board?] I believe for these managers to take a material position, it is a big vote of confidence, in PEB's future.

[Minerbarejet]

Thanks for the update, Skid.
I am absolutely overwhelmed with joy that the shares in PEB that I purchased the other day at 60 are now at 63. My goodness this is unbelievable, I must rush out and grab a bottle or two to celebrate , I think that rise should pretty near cover it. Woo hoo
(Miner does handsprings down the hallway and crashes into plant stand):)

[Xerof]

It's not all one way t-j

when all the index trackers came in upon PEB's entry to the NZX50, Hujlich related funds aggressively sold into that liquidity. $1.50 to $1.55. Other early supporters have sold over time too, Masfen and K1W1, some at unfortunately low prices. Just goes to show selling is not always value related, sometimes cash is needed for other ventures, or % reweightings force some out. Darling D clearly thought the price was too high over $1.50, too, so he sold a tiny parcel, to add a deck on to his house apparently. The chairs' trustees also took some off the table at those very inflated prices, but both these guys still hold disproportionately large positions in what was originally a highly speculative start-up.

so, it's one early holder totally out, with excellent profits, and lots of index trackers in near the top. Harbour, Salt, superlife and now Devon are the others who have been building larger holdings over the past few months (Westpac and BT are related entities, to Salt IIRC) with none of the other top 50 being sellers in any material way.

no sign of directors or senior management adding, but thats of concern only to one (or two) non-holders at this stage.

[waddis]

Thanks for the update, Skid.
I am absolutely overwhelmed with joy that the shares in PEB that I purchased the other day at 60 are now at 63. My goodness this is unbelievable, I must rush out and grab a bottle or two to celebrate , I think that rise should pretty near cover it. Woo hoo
(Miner does handsprings down the hallway and crashes into plant stand):)

Its all about hair Minor!!!

[skid]

Thanks for the update, Skid.
I am absolutely overwhelmed with joy that the shares in PEB that I purchased the other day at 60 are now at 63. My goodness this is unbelievable, I must rush out and grab a bottle or two to celebrate , I think that rise should pretty near cover it. Woo hoo
(Miner does handsprings down the hallway and crashes into plant stand):)

If you bought for .60 ,you should be celebrating,not complaining(if Im reading your sarcasm correctly)--It does seem to bounce @.60 (iron clad resistance?)--Some (who are not adverse to a bit of profit) may be doing quite well off these little bounces---(no-its not me--just sayin)

I know you guys are looking for the big Kahuna but these fluctuations should not be dismissed.IMO
If you start to see a pattern-why not.

Sounds like you have well and truly got your second wind(in terms of handsprings):)

[pierre]

Hi STers.
Just a reminder that I'm attending the PEB AGM on Thursday and happy to pose a question or two at the meeting.

If you're a holder and there's something you'd like asked, best you send me a PM with your question to avoid a lot of angst and negativity from a few on here. I'll do my best with it on Thursday. and report back.

Merci
Pierre

[winner69]

Is there going to be a live telecast / video stream of the ASM .......like last year

[pierre]

Is there going to be a live telecast / video stream of the ASM .......like last year

Hi Winner - There was no mention of either option in the notice of meeting.

[Minerbarejet]

Is there going to be a live telecast / video stream of the ASM .......like last year
Hahahahah, Nice one, Winner.
:)

[pierre]

Hahahahah, Nice one, Winner.
:)

I think we're all familiar with the joys of technology....and sarcasm.

[winner69]

I think we're all familiar with the joys of technology....and sarcasm.

This years meeting probably intended to be very very low key anyway

Not exactly the buzz and excitment of a year ago is there, although share price is much the same.

[pierre]

This years meeting probably intended to be very very low key anyway

Not exactly the buzz and excitement of a year ago is there, although share price is much the same.

That's certainly true - but you never know what might be in the pipeline and timed for release at the AGM (he said hopefully).

[Minerbarejet]

That's certainly true - but you never know what might be in the pipeline and timed for release at the AGM (he said hopefully).If there is anything price sensitive there should be either a trading halt or a market announcement prior to the meeting. Not during. Do that and they'll be up for another 500000.
Fair and equitable market, not a few AGM attendees getting the goods first.
Looking forward to a trading halt.
Hopefully not for a CR.:)

[trader_jackson]

Yes, my thoughts are: if there is a trading halt put in place at say 9:59 this Thursday morning, start your orders at 75c+, it is probably going to be very good news... if no trading halt, hopefully it will still be a good meeting (although I unfortunately cannot attend), and lift the share price accordingly.

[klid]

Fail. 60c is about right. Fail. Where's that CMS? Where's that 100 mil in revenue? Not looking good.
FAIL.
out.

[Arthur]

If there is anything price sensitive there should be either a trading halt or a market announcement prior to the meeting. Not during. Do that and they'll be up for another 500000.
Fair and equitable market, not a few AGM attendees getting the goods first.
Looking forward to a trading halt.
Hopefully not for a CR.:)
This is BS. There can be no useful information at any meeting anymore,. The feeling is even questions from the floor cannot be answered in case NZX/FMA get their knickers in a twist. Announcing to the NZX is not any more fair and equitable than at a meeting. There will always be people that get the information first, those at the meeting are actually at a disavantage in terms of their ability to trade. Lets hope we do not get into American style "best practise" where shareholders can't even get information about the company that they are part owners of. There are a number of presentations I read now that say "you can't read this if you are American". How does that help the American shareholders?

[couta1]

Another duck just got lined up:cool:

[Minerbarejet]

Might explain why triage has taken so long to launch into the States.
Patience, Couta.:)

[skid]

If you bought for .60 ,you should be celebrating,not complaining(if Im reading your sarcasm correctly)--It does seem to bounce @.60 (iron clad resistance?)--Some (who are not adverse to a bit of profit) may be doing quite well off these little bounces---(no-its not me--just sayin)

I know you guys are looking for the big Kahuna but these fluctuations should not be dismissed.IMO
If you start to see a pattern-why not.

Sounds like you have well and truly got your second wind(in terms of handsprings):)

Once again ,if you bought at .60(last drop) an sold at .63 Kaching!! now your up 10% (minus the cost to repair the plant stand)

[Minerbarejet]

Once again ,if you bought at .60(last drop) an sold at .63 Kaching!! now your up 10% (minus the cost to repair the plant stand)
Dont know what type of calculator you are using but 10 percent of 60 is 6 cents on mine, so the 3 is only 5%. Take off plant stand repairs, and of course brokerage and say 30 % for tax as a trader
Lets say 10000 shares at 60 = 6000.00
10000 shares at 63 = 6300.00 = 300.00 profit
300- 60 brokerage = 240.00 minus tax @ 33% = 160.00 in the hand
1 hour for repairs at cabinetmaker 60.00. Leaves 100.00

Following the completion of the transaction the share price then immediately heads to 70c. :)

[nextbigthing]

I think he means you've done it twice now, 2 x 5%

[skid]

Yep,actually probably many more times than that--It seems to be in a fluctuating pattern--rangebound---goes up--drifts down--goes up--drifts down..

Just a bit of fun with extra dosh---That dusty old original investment can stay,just in case the ducks line up--(actually ,have you ever tried to get ducks to line up?--It aint easy(ok--I know Tsuba can probably do it--but for most its hard:D

[Minerbarejet]

Yep,actually probably many more times than that--It seems to be in a fluctuating pattern--rangebound---goes up--drifts down--goes up--drifts down..

Just a bit of fun with extra dosh---That dusty old original investment can stay,just in case the ducks line up--(actually ,have you ever tried to get ducks to line up?--It aint easy(ok--I know Tsuba can probably do it--but for most its hard:D
Gee, I wonder why it is doing that ????
Wouldnt be a bunch of traders at work would it???
Why would anyone (actually) spend time trying to get ducks to line up???
Amazing.

[skid]

Ask Couta..;)......If it drifts back to .60 at the end of the week and then back up to .63..then will you take an interest? Gotta do something in the MEANTIME........

Oh yea ...the meeting..that may break the pattern for a week....Lets see how forthcoming they are with questions about YOUR company

i can guarantee they will be excited about something--we live in hope

[Minerbarejet]

Too busy with CDY to worry about PEB and a few cents. Over.

[pierre]

All those who earlier worried about the cost of Business class fares to Singapore to get the SE Asian market going for PEB can now relax - half the cost is going to be paid by NZTE.

"Pacific Edge Receives NZTE Support for Push into South East Asia

Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge (NZX:PEB) has received another boost
to its plans to expand its global footprint, with a three-year $600,000 grant
from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (NZTE).

The grant is milestone driven for investment over a three year period and
will aid in the evaluation of the South East Asia market opportunity for
Pacific Edge and its novel Cxbladder bladder cancer diagnostic tests, as well
as commercialisation and rollout into the region. The grant funding requires
a matching investment by Pacific Edge. The company has already made good
progress in its initial investigations into South East Asia, with the launch
of a User Programme with the prestigious Tan Tock Seng hospital in Singapore
earlier this year."

[winner69]

How the meeting go Pierre?

[pierre]

I'll have to let you know Thursday evening - it starts at 4pm tomorrow.

[trader_jackson]

Nice to see the 'media ramp up' right before the general meeting, I am surprised that announcement wasn't price sensitive... hoping for a trading half tomorrow morning (then you know there is really big news to come) but if not, should still be an interesting annual meeting... I also see there is live streaming... might have a listen/watch

[skid]

Too busy with CDY to worry about PEB and a few cents. Over.

Holly mac--I see what you mean!

[twotic]

Out of interest is anyone other than pierre going to the AGM today?

Haha, and I see they will be attempting to live stream the event again - although it looks like they have given the company they employed last time the boot.

EDIT: Jeepers, I guess it's a positive that they have gone local, but these fullahs website does not engender a huge amount of confidence that this years stream will be any better than last years :( Maybe I shouldn't judge a book by its cover though huh!

http://videofactory.co.nz/tvf_page2.htm

[twotic]

Out of interest is anyone other than pierre going to the AGM today?

Haha, and I see they will be attempting to live stream the event again - although it looks like they have given the company they employed last time the boot.

EDIT: Jeepers, I guess it's a positive that they have gone local, but these fullahs website does not engender a huge amount of confidence that this years stream will be any better than last years :( Maybe I shouldn't judge a book by its cover though huh!

http://videofactory.co.nz/tvf_page2.htm

Interesting. 13,000+ posts and only one person going to the AGM? Surely not, or is this thread mostly just people full of hot air ;)

I've decided to go, so come say gidday if you want. I shall be the chap in the plad shirt.

[trader_jackson]

Let me know how it goes, feel free to post live updates (I am in Auckland and probably can't watch the live cast)

I don't expect anything that exciting as there was no trading halt, but hopefully some interesting questions will be raised etc

[twotic]

Let me know how it goes, feel free to post live updates (I am in Auckland and probably can't watch the live cast)

I don't expect anything that exciting as there was no trading halt, but hopefully some interesting questions will be raised etc

Gidday, I'm not sure I will post anything on the public forum, but feel free to send me a PM and I'll get back to you if I observe anything of note. As a bit of a disclaimer though, I am essentially attending this meeting to see if PE can convince me to not sell my remaining shares.

[stoploss]

Anyones "live streaming @ 16:00" working ........???

[Crystal Ball]

Yes, a case of déjà vu I think......

[benjitara]

Anyones "live streaming @ 16:00" working ........???

not currently although they may not be anyway yet...

[Minerbarejet]

Anyones "live streaming @ 16:00" working ........???mines not working but underneath it says meeting will start at 17.00.
Belay that, now it says 19.00 or 7.00pm. Whaaaaaaaaat
Now its gone black
Looks like the live feed is dead.
Lol, what a crazy going on.
Cheers
Miner

[kjp64]

Mine has started now

[stoploss]

mines not working but underneath it says meeting will start at 17.00.

Yea that's not what they mailed to shareholders ...."Live" would be 4 ....

Annual MeetingThe Annual Meeting of Pacific Edge Limited is to be held on Thursday 13 August 2015 at 4.00 p.m. at the Dunedin Public Art Gallery, Otago Daily Times Gallery, Level 2, The Octagon, Dunedin.

[Minerbarejet]

Started now and still says 19.00 hours. Cheeech

[stoploss]

where can I watch??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfVNhgO0jGE&feature=youtu.be

[bonne vie]

Is any one else got very little volume now with shareholders and assume chairman speaking

[stoploss]

Is any one else got very little volume now with shareholders and assume chairman speaking

what i can't hear you ....

[zs_cecil]

Is any one else got very little volume now with shareholders and assume chairman speaking

I got the volume problem too. I was right on the question being asked about the right issue. I vaguely heard that DD said he didn't take the right issue.

[bonne vie]

Thanks for the non useful reply. Can anyone else tell me the have good sound

[bonne vie]

Thanks Stoploss.

Is that Hancocks speaking right now?
Pretty sure yes

[BlackPeter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfVNhgO0jGE&feature=youtu.be

nice pictures, but over a wide distance atrocious audio - do we need to gift them an amplifier, or did they just forgot to switch on some of these microphones?

[Schrodinger]

nice pictures, but over a wide distance atrocious audio - do we need to gift them an amplifier, or did they just forgot to switch on some of these microphones?

"They are great partners" but we have no sales what is he smoking

[stoploss]

Piss up in a bladder ....... comes to mind .

[Schrodinger]

is the guy speaking now the Chairman? hes clueless.

[gv1]

is the guy speaking now the Chairman? hes clueless.
I was thinking the same!

[trader_jackson]

The American girl (talking now) seems to know what she is talking about, very reassuring as this is there biggest market, although I agree the chairman seemed like he was a bit 'off focus'

[gv1]

No wonder...when we have at helm such incompetence

[Xerof]

Jackie for President...:t_up:...I had little confidence instilled by the chair - first time I had heard him present, due to last years cock-up.

[Bobcat.]

The fact that NONE of the directors could find any money to increase their personal stake in the company by way of the rights issue does not bode well. It's cheap talk to tell us that they are 'fully confident' in its future, and yet not one is prepared to put his money where his mouth is.

[Iolite]

Very interesting to hear about the sales process in the US.
Jackie Walker certainly appears to know what she is talking about - she sounded competent and smart.
Her answers to the questions were very reassuring given how tentative and nervous Chris Swann appeared to be throughout the meeting.

[Balance]

Come come, people, don't be so negative. Get with the excitement. Concluding comments from DD : "An Exciting Future For Our Company. We are at an exciting stage ... We are excited about ..."
A lot of excrement indeed!

[winner69]

Come come, people, don't be so negative. Get with the excitement. Concluding comments from DD : "An Exciting Future For Our Company. We are at an exciting stage ... We are excited about ..."
A lot of excrement indeed!

There seemed to be quite few 'great efforts' as well.

Obvious they didn't really want to be there. ASMs are a necessary chore - we forget its their company, not shareholders.

[Balance]

The fact that NONE of the directors could find any money to increase their personal stake in the company by way of the rights issue does not bode well. It's cheap talk to tell us that they are 'fully confident' in its future, and yet not one is prepared to put his money where his mouth is.

Come come, people, don't be so negative. Get with the excitement. Concluding comments from DD : "An Exciting Future For Our Company. We are at an exciting stage ... We are excited about ..."
A lot of excrement indeed!

And don't ignore the Chairman "I would like to thank our shareholders who participated in the capital raising and who continue to support our strategy. The Board is focused on driving shareholder value and we look forward to another year of improving performance and growing returns." Given that directors and management did not participate in the capital raising, implication is that they do not 'continue to support the strategy'? Plus, if the minus 30% return so far in 2015 is driving shareholder value (down), dread to think what he means by another year of growing returns!" :scared::scared::scared:

[BlackPeter]

Thanks Balance. You have been waiting patiently to regale us with yet another of your witty remarks.

We certainly appreciate it.

No, really. We do.

NG, actually - balance is back (under his old name). Are you suggesting he uses two different noms de plume concurrently?

[BlackPeter]

Come come, people, don't be so negative. Get with the excitement. Concluding comments from DD : "An Exciting Future For Our Company. We are at an exciting stage ... We are excited about ..."
A lot of excrement indeed!

And don't ignore the Chairman "I would like to thank our shareholders who participated in the capital raising and who continue to support our strategy. The Board is focused on driving shareholder value and we look forward to another year of improving performance and growing returns." Given that directors and management did not participate in the capital raising, implication is that they do not 'continue to support the strategy'? Plus, if the minus 30% return so far in 2015 is driving shareholder value (down), dread to think what he means by another year of growing returns!" :scared::scared::scared:

Agree - a quite disappointing performance ranging from mediocre (DD) to nervous / disinterested (CS). Glad I sold out, though too late ... the CR damage was already done to the SP ... and didn't support the CR (following the glowing example of our directors). Not very confident answer on the question whether they expect a further CR prior to 2018 (which is now confirmed as the year where they magically reach the $100m turnover). Sure - if they need more money, than it can't be hard to identify another "opportunity" - can it?

[Iolite]

This was mentioned in the meeting:
https://bladdercancer.me/

I'm sure there are plenty of well established online forums where those with bladder cancer already interact...

I wonder what the uptake will be?
Is this like a forum or different? They refer to it as a "Private social network"...
Will the value-added features such as real-time clinical support, video meetings, health tracking, reporting etc. be enough to build sufficient uptake (eg, people joining up)?
How will people be made aware of this - through their doctors or just word of mouth?

[Meister]

I did not see the presentation, but reading the announcements I see any benefit from the Kaiser program is at least another entire year away, longer than I was hoping.
Did anything more specific get said about CMS?

[Schrodinger]

I did not see the presentation, but reading the announcements I see any benefit from the Kaiser program is at least another entire year away, longer than I was hoping.
Did anything more specific get said about CMS?

I encourage people to watch Scotts recent presentations for VMob in the US/NZ. There is night and day with the marketing and sales approach between the two companies. VMob might not be a certainty but at least they dont come across as country hicks. They present confidence and have a slick marketing approach. I hope PEB is watching on how to sell to Americans. PEB has the look of an 80s SOE. I havent been watching the numbers but I think PEB have raised $80M capital for $3m pure sales?

[kiwidollabill]

I encourage people to watch Scotts recent presentations for VMob in the US/NZ. There is night and day with the marketing and sales approach between the two companies. VMob might not be a certainty but at least they dont come across as country hicks. They present confidence and have a slick marketing approach. I hope PEB is watching on how to sell to Americans. PEB has the look of an 80s SOE. I havent been watching the numbers but I think PEB have raised $80M capital for $3m pure sales?


An "80s SOE..." thats a good one...

[skid]

Come come, people, don't be so negative. Get with the excitement. Concluding comments from DD : "An Exciting Future For Our Company. We are at an exciting stage ... We are excited about ..."
A lot of excrement indeed!


you should have known that they would rave on about being excited about something ---Skid guaranteed it;)

[skid]

Well...an interesting days posts.. Conclusion- Directors at the helm came across as (dare I say it again? incompetent (ok thats too strong a word --bumbleing? Hicks?(real worry is it is starting to look like a pattern)-Kaiser program conclusion (every ones hopes)still a year away??!!!---so basically all hopes lie with Jackie?

At the risk of being redundant -IMO- a professional ,slick marketing outfit is paramount....and of course...Oh if only, a major partner.

How long will the institutions stand by?

[winner69]

Give Dave (that's what the Chairman called him) some credit - he did tuck his shirt in and put on a tie

[kiwidollabill]

If the SP stays in the doldrums and no good news is forthcoming in the next 3-6 months wouldnt be surprised if DD or other seniors get the "don't come monday".

The whole team is under serious pressure from the Instos to perform at the moment...

[Baa_Baa]

I encourage people to watch Scotts recent presentations for VMob in the US/NZ. There is night and day with the marketing and sales approach between the two companies. VMob might not be a certainty but at least they dont come across as country hicks. They present confidence and have a slick marketing approach. I hope PEB is watching on how to sell to Americans. PEB has the look of an 80s SOE. I havent been watching the numbers but I think PEB have raised $80M capital for $3m pure sales?

Nice Schrodinger .. that would be informative on the VML thread as well. Scott demonstrates that a salesperson that can talk the science will always beat the scientist who can't sell.

[jonu]

If the SP stays in the doldrums and no good news is forthcoming in the next 3-6 months wouldnt be surprised if DD or other seniors get the "don't come monday".

The whole team is under serious pressure from the Instos to perform at the moment...

I guess you have got evidence to back up such a strong statement? Which Insto has given them a bollocking?

The level of comment post the ASM has hardly been analytical, more like a bunch of sour one liners. What did people expect of this meeting that wasn't already in the public arena?

[gv1]

They can't talk to the s/holders who believe in the product, how can they market them to unknowns....sad day! Need good marketing ex.
One comes to mind, who can sell anything..Susan paul.

[couta1]

This thread really has gone to the dogs since some of the more knowledgeable and well researched posters have vacated the house, its basically a non holders edition of woman's weekly now, meanwhile for most of the long term holders (Including Instos) its business as usual on the long (Yes that means years not minutes) Biotech road to success.

[Crackity]

This thread really has gone to the dogs since some of the more knowledgeable and well researched posters have vacated the house, its basically a non holders edition of woman's weekly now, meanwhile for most of the long term holders (Including Instos) its business as usual on the long (Yes that means years not minutes) Biotech road to success.

Speaking as a non holder I would posit that occasionally the sharetrader forum gets it massively right when nearly every poster is bullish - this year it has been NZR and Scales that spring to mind. Also occasionally the forum gets it right when nearly every poster turns negative. Are we at the tipping point with PEB?

[couta1]

Speaking as a non holder I would posit that occasionally the sharetrader forum gets it massively right when nearly every poster is bullish - this year it has been NZR and Scales that spring to mind. Also occasionally the forum gets it right when nearly every poster turns negative. Are we at the tipping point with PEB? The success or failure of PEB will not be determined anytime soon.

[barney]

This thread really has gone to the dogs since some of the more knowledgeable and well researched posters have vacated the house, its basically a non holders edition of woman's weekly now, meanwhile for most of the long term holders (Including Instos) its business as usual on the long (Yes that means years not minutes) Biotech road to success.
It's very similar to listening to talk back radio. Sadly there is little value left in what is posted any more.

[couta1]

It's very similar to listening to talk back radio. Sadly there is little value left in what is posted any more. Sad but true, now I know why I gave up listening to TalkBack radio about 10 years ago.

[Crackity]

Sadly there is little value left in what is posted any more.

I disagree with that but if you feel that way the solution is the same as overexposure to talk back radio.....:)

[winner69]

This thread really has gone to the dogs since some of the more knowledgeable and well researched posters have vacated the house, its basically a non holders edition of woman's weekly now, meanwhile for most of the long term holders (Including Instos) its business as usual on the long (Yes that means years not minutes) Biotech road to success.

The days are long but the decades are short

[Schrodinger]

They obviously have a good product but as we all know that doesnt mean you are going to win. The advantage of a channel partner is they would have the sales and marketing locked down and could of taken this off PEB. Since they have taken this on themselves they will have to learn quickly how expensive and tricky it will be. For you more savvy investors I recommend finding out the capabilities internally in the company especially for the USA. Red flags for me would be a lone wolf graduate on minimum wage which would highlight this area as a cost rather than something that has to be invested in and professionalised. I also get reminded of the FPH and Resmed comparison as to how to scale a healthcare company in the US. Sure FPH has done well but look at Resmeds numbers. Interestingly FPH said Resmed wouldnt go anywhere when they had the option to buy them...

[trader_jackson]

I have always found this thread interesting, mainly because all the acquisitions of terrible management (what seems to be the current "theme" of the forum) are generally completely unfounded and without much logic swipes at personality, rather actual skill set... but still I do like the banter presented on the forum today (80's SOE was a good one, as was the women's day comment)

As for VMob... so they have a nice (or "slick") looking presentation? I remember Enron's reports always looked very flash as well... all those numbers and pretty pictures of management, who looked like they were (almost) dancing around

As for directors/chairman not seeming to know what was going on... I put it down to nerves... I am not surprised management are nervous, shows they actually care about the meeting... like a sporting event, if you turn up and your not nervous, your probably "not really interested" in the outcome, and its more of another "tick the box exercise", rather than "race".

Jackie was very reassuring, and it is very good to see the person in charge of the most important market, seems to know the market, and its people, very well. Although I believe she was also slightly nervous, it was a lot harder to pick up (probably because American's are generally quite self confident).

Will be interesting to see what happens between now and the end of the year, I will end with 2 famous sayings... "Rome wasn't built in a day"..."Good things take time"

[Schrodinger]

True it might be big game nerves but it felt like a hostage negotiation when Chris was responding to questions.

[nextbigthing]

Instead of whinging about all the negative posts, point out some positives that came out of the meeting.

[Balance]

Will be interesting to see what happens between now and the end of the year, I will end with 2 famous sayings... "Rome wasn't built in a day"..."Good things take time"

Rome wasn't built in one day but it burnt down in a day. Rotten eggs get smellier with time and at a point in time, becomes impossible to ignore?

[NT001]

Well PEB did go looking for a strong partner from Big Pharma a while ago and were told to come back when they were further down the track. Now they are further down the track with two products on the market and another two almost ready, and a marketing team led by Jackie who most of us seem to think is pretty clued up.

I can see why the management would want to get the full diagnostic suite ready plus some solid results from someone like Kaiser Permanente before going back again, begging. And I'm sure they listen to Jackie on issues like this.

I don’t think it makes them look like hicks or 80s SOEs. There’s a lot of negative talk, including the unexplained comment a few days ago that someone couldn’t take part in this thread because he/she was too busy with Cellmid. Well Cellmid has just got itself a reputed whiz of a sales consultant in New York, but not for its cancer cure – it’s for a hair tonic that is apparently its biggest seller. Selling hair tonic in the US is not exactly the same as selling cancer diagnostics.

Just a few weeks ago a lot of us were angsting about a2 Milk’s share slide and wondering why its management couldn’t produce some good news instead of pouring resources into opening up new markets (ring any bells?). And then we got a takeover proposal out of the blue that sent the SP up 75% with most analysts saying a reasonable takeover price would have to be considerably higher.

Patience is not only a virtue, it's an excellent protection against ulcers, regardless of whether you have PEB shares or are proud of having none. And with a little more patience among us, we might have also retained some of our more knowledgable contributors on this thread. I miss them, and hope they will rejoin us.

[Balance]

There is a very telling comment from the AGM which provides an excellent window into why PEB has returned minus 31% to date this year. CEO commented (presumably with excitement in his voice) that "In 2014, we set out our objectives for the 2015 financial year. We have made excellent progress against ALL OF THESE ..."

Two examples show PEB's goal setting and how hopeless they have been at achieving those goals on time - (1) We know that PEB announced in August 2014 with Kasier Permanente that "The User Program research is scheduled to begin later this year with results completed in early 2015". In reality, the user program only started in July 2015! (2) We also know that PEB announced in Dec 2014 that with Triage that "Cxbladder Triage is now available in New Zealand and will be launched in the USA early in 2015". In reality, they have only this month (August 2015) received CLIA approval to use the test! There is clearly something seriously amiss with their planning which points towards a fundamental lack of understanding of the US market.

Add to that the slippage on just about every front (especially the 'profitability will be achieved with the 2013 capital raising') and it is no wonder the directors themselves are not prepared to put their own money into the lastest capital raising, after urging all shareholders to support it!

[skid]

I guess you have got evidence to back up such a strong statement? Which Insto has given them a bollocking?

The level of comment post the ASM has hardly been analytical, more like a bunch of sour one liners. What did people expect of this meeting that wasn't already in the public arena?

They expected to be reassured

[skid]

The success or failure of PEB will not be determined anytime soon.

Now theres a positive statement:) Its going to take years to get a return on your investment(back to even?) and those that dont like that are the problem.

[skid]

It's very similar to listening to talk back radio. Sadly there is little value left in what is posted any more.

Thats because the science has already been pretty well hashed over and given the tick--It is now into the management and selling arena and thats not going as expected--most thought we'd be well on our way by now(including management IMO)

Stretching horizons on timelines is one thing ,but taking hits on losses is another(for Sh)--Has it ever occurred to you that someone else may be more qualified to promote and sell?

[Leftfield]

…...Patience is not only a virtue, it's an excellent protection against ulcers, regardless of whether you have PEB shares or are proud of having none. And with a little more patience among us, we might have also retained some of our more knowledgable contributors on this thread. I miss them, and hope they will rejoin us.

Good post NT001. Well said.

[Crisis]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/268418

[Balance]

The success or failure of PEB will not be determined anytime soon.

It's already a failure, based upon all the expectations the company relayed to the market but have not met. Especially the 'profitability with the capital raising in 2013.'

[couta1]

It's already a failure, based upon all the expectations the company relayed to the market but have not met. Especially the 'profitability with the capital raising in 2013.'
It's only a failure to constant knockers and or non holders with an axe to grind to the rest of us its a game of patience.

[Minerbarejet]

On another note, did anyone get the impression that the Chairman was either getting over or going down with the flu , perhaps. He didn't look that well, actually.

[blackcap]

It's only a failure to constant knockers and or non holders with an axe to grind to the rest of us its a game of patience.

Patience sure is a virtue and thats all good, but there is this little thing called "time value of money" and "opportunity cost" which stops me from entering this stock.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/268418

Not seen an announcement post AGM like this for a long long long time - companies usually just post the results of voting. PEB droning on again about their 'positive' performance (share price down 31%) and $100 million etc. Notice the emphasis now on $100m by fifth full year of trading? Rights issue time in 2013 : "https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/242760 - achieving $100m of commercial sales in the USA within 5 trading years." This is what Cellmid believed in 2013 : "PEB now have continued guidance on a $100m revenue target for 5 years following launch (with news supporting the guidance)".

Keep changing the targets and of course any company run by a bunch of amateurs will always meet 'internal set expectations'! :D

[winner69]

Not seen an announcement post AGM like this for a long long long time - companies usually just post the results of voting. PEB droning on again about their 'positive' performance (share price down 31%) and $100 million etc. Notice the emphasis now on $100m by fifth full year of trading? Rights issue time in 2013 : "https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/242760 - achieving $100m of commercial sales in the USA within 5 trading years." This is what Cellmid believed in 2013 : "PEB now have continued guidance on a $100m revenue target for 5 years following launch (with news supporting the guidance)".

Keep changing the targets and of course any company run by a bunch of amateurs will always meet 'internal set expectations'! :D

They put that summary out for those who couldn't hear all the words on the live videocast

[Minerbarejet]

Not seen an announcement post AGM like this for a long long long time - companies usually just post the results of voting. PEB droning on again about their 'positive' performance (share price down 31%) and $100 million etc. Notice the emphasis now on $100m by fifth full year of trading? Rights issue time in 2013 : "https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/242760 - achieving $100m of commercial sales in the USA within 5 trading years." This is what Cellmid believed in 2013 : "PEB now have continued guidance on a $100m revenue target for 5 years following launch (with news supporting the guidance)".

Keep changing the targets and of course any company run by a bunch of amateurs will always meet 'internal set expectations'! :DBalanko are you going to nitpick " by fifth full year" to death now?
Keep up, its been around for sometime now, didnt arrive yesterday.
Ill be off now, probably permanently.:)

[Balance]

They put that summary out for those who couldn't hear all the words on the live videocast

Haha - Chairman was struggling to be articulate? I suspect he was dreading the moment someone asked him about directors' and his 'participation' in the capital raising? Not that it was ever going to happen - only the groupies were there to cheer the directors on to their new internal set targets!

BTW, you notice they have identified Spain (yes, Spain) as a geographical expansion into a NEW market in their presentation?

"Chief executive David Darling said Spanish company Oryzon SA had signed an exclusive licence agreement to market Pacific Edge's Cxbladder - a diagnostic test for the detection of bladder cancer - in Spain and Portugal" http://www.pacificedge.co.nz/news-and-media/news-archive/pacific-edge-to-ramp-up-european-sales/

Oops - that announcement about Spain and Portugal was made in 2011! Back to the future for the company.:scared:

[twotic]

Haha - Chairman was struggling to be articulate? I suspect he was dreading the moment someone asked him about directors' and his 'participation' in the capital raising? Not that it was ever going to happen - only the groupies were there to cheer the directors on to their new internal set targets! BTW, you notice they have identified Spain (yes, Spain) as a geographical expansion into a NEW market?

So for all the opinion you have, you didn't even watch the AGM huh? For your information the question did get asked mate!

For what its worth, the questions asked during the AGM were IMO about 50-50 in terms of +ve/-ve sentiment towards PEB and the directors. Not sure its much point telling you that though mate as you are so full of yourself that you think you have figured it all out without even taking the time to get your facts right.

[twotic]

For what it's worth I attended the AGM yesterday and to be frank I thought it was a disgrace. Right from the beginning when the meeting was delayed because the live streaming wasn't working it was an embarrassment. One would think after last years debacle someone would have done a basic check to ensure both the streaming and the sound gear were working. As it turns out neither was and the audience was left with heads in hands right from the start.

Perhaps enough has been said about Chris Swan but he was so bad I feel I have to make comment. During the meeting I sat there and watched him twitch and shuffle his way through his opening address. His body position literally changed every 3 or 4 seconds, tapping away with each foot in turn. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he is just a very nervous guy, but as the meeting went on it was clear he was incredibly under-prepared and that his knowledge of many areas of the business was severely lacking. His bizarre response to the question regarding directors not taking up their rights in the capital raise capped it all off. For some reason he went down the track of suggesting things could have been different if the rights issue had created some value and at the very least directors could then have had the chance to trade their rights....?? The whole way that question got answered was absolutely pathetic to be honest, including the chime in responses by a couple of the directors.

On the face of it Dave Darling actually speaks quite well, but unless he is talking about the product itself or the genuine concern for the well being of cancer sufferers, my take is he is ofetn full of hot air. This was typified in his response to happenings over in OZ and Spain which was a complete joke.

The only shining light was Jackie Walker. She speaks confidently, appears genuinely excited about the product, and seems to know what she is talking about.

Another plus was their commitment to reaching $100m by financial year 2018 and that they wont require another capital raise to get them there. That being said, these (or similar) statements have been made before by PEB and they have either back-flipped or pushed time lines out so I’m taking them with a grain of salt. Furthermore, reading between the lines with respect PEB’s responses to revenue growth questions for the current financial year, my take is growth may even be weaker than last year and they are basically all in on this KP user programme. Without being able to convert these guys to a commercial customer I just can't see how they will even come close to $100m by 2018.

CMS and VA cover still appear to be so far away no commitment can be given on any time lines. We are just "one step closer" on what seems to be a never-ending staircase.

The other thing I just don’t get is given how thinly spread they are in the US what on earth are they doing exploring Asia?

I do believe they have a good product but there is certainly not enough of an evidence base for it to become part of the best practice clinical pathway in the short (perhaps even medium/long) term. I have been told this directly by people with first hand experience with the product, and the AHRQ report effectively reiterated this as well. Moreover, I am genuinely concerned their product may simply be not good enough anyway.

Overall I was embarrassed to be there as a shareholder. I don’t foresee anything in the near future that will keep the share price from sliding further so I am out. There are some massive red flags with this company that I personally cannot reconcile with continued investment.

Time will tell whether this is the right decision and I do wish remaining shareholders all the best.

[Bjauck]

For what it's worth I attended the AGM yesterday and to be frank I though it was a disgrace. ....
Thanks for your clear and frank report. It makes for disturbing reading.

[Leftfield]

Your comments much appreciated Twotic. I did not attend, but was disappointed in the reporting and lack of future guidance. Some details about the numbers enrolled, and progress in the key trials etc would have been a good start. Disc; reduced my holding.

[Iolite]

Thanks for your considered post Twotic!
Makes a pleasant change from the boring, repetitive, and inflammatory rhetoric coming from certain unbalanced posters.

I agree with much of what you said, having watched the live stream rather than attended in person, but since I was greatly reassured by what Jackie Walker said (including the info about the "thinly spread" marketing coverage), I am still in. (Note however that I am a very small shareholder and don't stand to lose a lot of money - I certainly still view PEB as a fairly risky investment.)


Perhaps enough has been said about Chris Swan but he was so bad I feel I have to make comment. During the meeting I sat there and watched him twitch and shuffle his way through his opening address. His body position literally changed every 3 or 4 seconds, tapping away with each foot in turn. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he is just a very nervous guy, but as the meeting went on it was clear he was incredibly under-prepared and that his knowledge of many areas of the business was severely lacking.
Perhaps, as others suggested, he viewed the meeting as a necessary inconvenience and hadn't bothered spending the time to fully prepare or rehearse for it? I do not view Chris Swann as being key to the success of PEB, so even though his public performance as Chair was disappointing, I don't believe he will have any material affect on whether or not PEB will be successful.


On the face of it Dave Darling actually speaks quite well, but unless he is talking about the product itself or the genuine concern for the well being of cancer sufferers, my take is he is ofetn full of hot air. This was typified in his response to happenings over in OZ and Spain which was a complete joke.
He needs to lay off the repeated use of "exciting" and "great outcome" etc. He is a confident and knowledgeable speaker, but repeating the same positive phrases just starts to sound hollow. He needs to let the results speak for themselves.


CMS and VA cover still appear to be so far away no commitment can be given on any time lines.
I got the impression that they were not far away from VA approval, having now submitted their "dossier" (maybe early 2016?), and that CMS coverage would likely come sometime in 2016 also.


The other thing I just don’t get is given how thinly spread they are in the US what on earth are they doing exploring Asia?
Jackie mentioned how they had engaged an independent marketing company to help them identify key coverage areas ("heat map" and 60% of urologists in the 19 urban centres etc.) and since I have no knowledge/experience of marketing diagnostic tests in the US, I can only assume that Jackie Walker and the marketing company know what they are doing.


I do believe they have a good product but there is certainly not enough of an evidence base for it to become part of the best practice clinical pathway in the short (perhaps even medium) term. I have been told this directly by people with first hand experience with the product, and the AHRQ report effectively reiterated this as well. Moreover, I am genuinely concerned their product may simply be not good enough anyway.
Are the people you have spoken to with first hand experience in NZ or in the US? There are very big difference between the US and NZ in terms of the pathways involved for uptake as best practice...

Ultimately every investor has to do what they feel most comfortable with. For now I am still comfortable with being a shareholder in PEB, but I can understand why others might not be. :cool:

[Arthur]

For what it's worth (problems acknowledged)I didn't think it was too bad. The good that other posters have missed
The 5 years until $100 m has started (other posters have said it hasn't started yet). The target is now 3 years away
They talked about the margin on those sales (is it sustainable?). A generous interpretation could give $50 million profit in 2018 on a PE of 20 that would quadruple the share price in 3 years.
Australia was partly explained (upheavel in their partner)
Jackie appears enthusiastic and capable and she drives the main market. She said they do not need many more sales people.
Two of the directors were not eligible to participate in the rights issue
The money was raised anyway.
Here is the thing : Given that their test appears to significantly outperform Abbots Fish test who would want to be the urologist that did not do a CX bladder test when the patient gets cancer? American lawyers live for this sort of litigation. It would only take one or two prominant advocates and they could reach a tipping point. If that happens there will be a rush to use the test. If it becomes "best practise" it will be a brave (and conflicted?) urologist who does not use CX bladder. Wouldn't it be nice if DDs forecasts prove pesimistic.

[twotic]

Hi Iolite,

Thanks for the reply mate, and of course each to their own regarding investments. I agree with much of what you say as well.

Regarding CMS and VA, all I have heard for some time is "one step closer" - to be honest my take is that if coverage was close, directors would have been all in with the capital raise. I can't see there being anything else in the short to medium term which will stop the decline in the SP so for me that was a pretty big reason to sell.

Regrading the people I have talked to, yes they are NZ based and yes they are operating under quite a different system than the US. That being said, results should speak for themselves and if CxBladder is good enough it would be getting better traction in NZ. The same goes for the US. It was a major concern when people involved with the user programmes in the DHBs were so negative on its prospects in the NZ health care setting. I'm not sure why that would be any different in the US, in fact you could argue it will be even more difficult to convince people in the US.

Anyway I shall leave it there. Apologies to holders if my comments regarding the meeting might sound too harsh, but I thought it best to be honest, post my thoughts once, and then leave people to their own devices.

[Iolite]

There was a question at the end about forecast revenue for the FY2016, given that we are already 5(?) months in.
The person who asked the question mentioned something about market requirements/obligations of the company around this, given that a number of Institutions have released their own estimates of what they think revenue will be.

He was clearly wanting PEB to make a revenue prediction and was intimating that there was some obligation around them doing this.
Chris Swann and David Darling would not be drawn on this and only stated that they were aware of their obligations...

Can anyone tell me what they are obliged to do under NZX rules with regards to making future revenue forecasts?

[Balance]

There was a question at the end about forecast revenue for the FY2016, given that we are already 5(?) months in.
The person who asked the question mentioned something about market requirements/obligations of the company around this, given that a number of Institutions have released their own estimates of what they think revenue will be.

He was clearly wanting PEB to make a revenue prediction and was intimating that there was some obligation around them doing this.
Chris Swann and David Darling would not be drawn on this and only stated that they were aware of their obligations...

Can anyone tell me what they are obliged to do under NZX rules with regards to making future revenue forecasts?

There is no obligation to make future revenue forecasts, unless a company has issued them in the past. In which case, the company is obliged to provide updates when there are material divergents from the forecasts.

It is good practice however to update the market and shareholders at AGMs about how a company is tracking. It's a great opportunity to tell the market how the company is really doing.

Don't expect it from PEB however as it is clear from various analysis they have been falling behind expectations - hence, the 'duck and dive' strategy of talking semantics rather than actual numbers. $100m revenue was supposed to be within 5 years, now it is 5 FULL trading years. $100m was supposed to be from the USA alone, now it is from everywhere.

[Balance]

His bizarre response to the question regarding directors not taking up their rights in the capital raise capped it all off. For some reason he went down the track of suggesting things could have been different if the rights issue had created some value and at the very least directors could then have had the chance to trade their rights....?? The whole way that question got answered was absolutely pathetic to be honest, including the chime in responses by a couple of the directors.

Very telling indeed! So the directors are happy to recommend and urge shareholders to support the issue and put yet more money in (after failing dismally to achieve profit objective from previous rights issue) but they are only prepared to sell the rights (if they are in the money) to get some value out of the rights issue?

[kiora]

A question out of curiosity (I'm not a shareholder)
Is the laboratory test for Cx bladder automated therefore easily scalable ?

[Balance]

A question out of curiosity (I'm not a shareholder)
Is the laboratory test for Cx bladder automated therefore easily scalable ?

They are giving away free tests so worry not about scalability.

PEB is one company which boasts about huge increases in lab throughput but will not (1) state from what kind of base (100 tests or 10,000 tests) and (2) how many of the tests are paid and how many are free. Only a company with much to hide behave like that.

[Arthur]

I think it says in the annual report they processed 32,425 tests in USA last year. My uneducated guess is that only about 3,000 were paid, the rest were user program trials. User program trials will not go on forever, at some stage the urologist has to start to buy future tests or chooses not to use it.

[skid]

It's only a failure to constant knockers and or non holders with an axe to grind to the rest of us its a game of patience.

I think alot of the patience have been rounded up and put back into the home:)

[kiwidollabill]

I've made statements before on the 'ease' of PEBs lab scalability. In the context of how the industry views high throughput testing, PEB is in the dark ages. Yes I'm sure they can do 260k test pa in their US lab, but that's like me saying "I can make 10 tons of milk powder in my back shed given enough stovetops and pots".

[Arthur]

According to their Annual Report they processed 328,812 tests in their NZ lab last year, so 260k in USA should not be too many. From memory they can use the NZ lab for US test too.

[BlackPeter]

I've made statements before on the 'ease' of PEBs lab scalability. In the context of how the industry views high throughput testing, PEB is in the dark ages. Yes I'm sure they can do 260k test pa in their US lab, but that's like me saying "I can make 10 tons of milk powder in my back shed given enough stovetops and pots".

Actually - I think this is a red herring. I am sure PEB would love to have the problem of running out of testing capacity ... and if they do, they will have enough money to upscale their testing regime, no matter how old fashioned and manual it might be.

In my view scalability is the smallest of their problems. Their only real problem is that they don't seem to find fast enough a sufficient number of customers happy to pay for tests going through their lab ...

[Bobcat.]

After sitting through yesterday's rather amateurish and confidence-depleting AGM presentation (the one exception and a breath of fresh air was Jackie whats-her-name), I felt sick in the stomach that I was sitting on a paper loss having invested in a company with much promise. My nausea was due I'm sure to realising how much of the promise is now hot air, and I'm kicking myself for not being more diligent in my research.

And so seeking not so much a remedy but a distraction, I had a look at VMob's AGM presentation today - what a contrast. Professional, well positioned and with not only a great strategy but rungs on the ladder and a revenue to cost ratio moving rapidly in the right direction.

I've today sold out of PEB and invested more into VML. Better commercial prospects by far.

PEB has nice technology, sure - but it takes a craftsman to make best use of any tool and the right sales and marketing to crack into any promised big time revenues and profitability. These wishful thinkers are kidding themselves if they think they'll get their $100 mil by 2018.

Sorry but I'm not longer a believer in this company.

The last straw was seeing the directors making out that they're very confident in the company's prospects but not enough to take up any of their rights. I read that to mean that they're getting tired, having suffered too many setbacks to want to invest any more in something that may not actually bring a healthy return. They'd clearly rather someone else fund their plans and take the risk - well it's no longer gonna' be me.

Arivederci

[psychic]

Scalability is definitely not an issue.

Twotic - sorry I missed you mate. Hunted down a plaid shirt but the wearer was very determined he was not you..

Had a good chat over a beer with a few of the PEB guys post AGM - pity you were not part of that discussion as it might have tempered some of the assumptions you have made above.

Overall, I'm happy they are doing the biz. It won't happen fast enough or in the way the trolls imagine here but that's okay.

Cheers

[Arthur]

100% sure your figure on last year's tests is incorrect
Seemed high to me, but thats what they say on page 50 of the 2015 report. Would have been a good question to ask at the AGM.

[Iolite]

Seemed high to me, but thats what they say on page 50 of the 2015 report. Would have been a good question to ask at the AGM.

I believe that number you quoted is actually the 'on paper' $ value of the tests that they processed in their NZ labs, eg, $328,812.00, not 328,812 tests.

$120,321.00 was recorded as actual product sales in NZ, which contributed to the total external income.

[twotic]

Scalability is definitely not an issue.

Twotic - sorry I missed you mate. Hunted down a plaid shirt but the wearer was very determined he was not you..

Had a good chat over a beer with a few of the PEB guys post AGM - pity you were not part of that discussion as it might have tempered some of the assumptions you have made above.

Overall, I'm happy they are doing the biz. It won't happen fast enough or in the way the trolls imagine here but that's okay.

Cheers

Oh, bugger, didn't realise you were down there.

I do hope it all works out for you mate. I will for sure be back in if they can show me they are getting good enough traction. Will watch with interest.

[Iolite]

The figure above the 328812 is the value of sales made that were processed in Dunedin
The 328,812 is, I think, the value of research tests carried out in Dunedin. I would suspect that the value of User Program tests are included. I did see somewhere recently that User Program tests are being carried out in NZ and understood it to include US User Program tests. Note it is not included in the revenue and is more or less written off along with a much smaller amount from the Hershey Lab.

I think that the 328,812 may represent the 'on-paper' value of ONLY the User Programme tests and does not include tests that were paid for, given that the value of "Product Sales" from NZ + US greatly exceeded the amount for the "Research Tests Processed" in NZ + US.

Here is the table (from page 50 of the 2015 annual report) for those interested:
7516

[skid]

Scalability is definitely not an issue.

Twotic - sorry I missed you mate. Hunted down a plaid shirt but the wearer was very determined he was not you..

Had a good chat over a beer with a few of the PEB guys post AGM - pity you were not part of that discussion as it might have tempered some of the assumptions you have made above.

Overall, I'm happy they are doing the biz. It won't happen fast enough or in the way the trolls imagine here but that's okay.

Cheers

Bobcat has made some pretty good points on why he has become disenchanted with PEB(especially compared to some other companies.)
I also did a similar comparison with another Biotec some time back, and came to the same conclusion and bought elsewhere.

Would you like to share why, after your discussion you are still Keen?
It would be interesting to know how you came to that conclusion(or at least have not changed your point of view)--because as far as I can see ,confidence is not very high at this stage,although many Im sure would give it a second go if they did something to earn their salt.

[blobbles]

I think that the 328,812 may represent the 'on-paper' value of ONLY the User Programme tests and does not include tests that were paid for, given that the value of "Product Sales" from NZ + US greatly exceeded the amount for the "Research Tests Processed" in NZ + US.

Here is the table (from page 50 of the 2015 annual report) for those interested:
7516

NZ: $2.73 per test revenue
US: $54.80 per test revenue

No wonder they want to go more into the US!

(P.S. I am being cheeky!)

[Balance]

57 cents post the AGM. Could well be the watershed AGM when many woke up to the fact that the emperor is wearing no clothes? :scared:

[couta1]

57 cents post the AGM. Could well be the watershed AGM when many woke up to the fact that the emperor is wearing no clothes? :scared: Franko aka balance are you really that blind? I will spell it out for you ALL THE MARKET IS DOWN BIG TIME

[Balance]

Market down 0.6% and PEB down a whopping 6.6%, biggest fall of NZX50 stocks. At this rate, PEB will be kicked out of NZX index soon.

[couta1]

Market down 0.6% and PEB down a whopping 6.6%, biggest fall of NZX50 stocks. At this rate, PEB will be kicked out of NZX index soon.
That's because it did all its falling today whereas other NZX50 stocks have been falling all week, many by more than 6.6%, you go and do the maths.

[Balance]

That's because it did all its falling today whereas other NZX50 stocks have been falling all week, many by more than 6.6%, you go and do the maths.

For the record, NZ50G fell from 5865 to 5696.4 or 2.9% this week while PEB fell from 63c to 57c or 9.6%.

One can observe that PEB's huge fall today is post its AGM yesterday. Conclusion - anticipation unfulfilled of a proper update by company. Hope the directors learn something.
Since 1 Jan, NZ50G is up 2.3% while PEB is down 33%.

Market cap now down to $229m, so is on track to slipping out of NZX50 with SCL now at $289m, a shoo in to replace PEB.

[skid]

Skid, I thought you said this was rangebound and I could look forward to three cents. Looks like thats gone and another 3 as well.
So much for trading.
Guess I will just have to hang on until they get back to 1.72 again.:)

Guess the AGM was a bit of a wild card--did mention that:)

[couta1]

For the record, NZ50G fell from 5865 to 5696.4 or 2.9% this week while PEB fell from 63c to 57c or 9.6%.

One can observe that PEB's huge fall today is post its AGM yesterday. Conclusion - anticipation unfulfilled of a proper update by company. Hope the directors learn something.
Since 1 Jan, NZ50G is up 2.3% while PEB is down 33%.

Market cap now down to $229m, so is on track to slipping out of NZX50 with SCL now at $289m, a shoo in to replace PEB.
There were several NZX50 stocks that fell more than 9.6% this week, there are also other stocks that could fall out of the NZX 50 like MPG and SKL to name a couple.

[trader_jackson]

The AGM did seem to make many investors a bit more nervous, but with Jackie running the show in the US actually my confidence went up slightly... as I believe they were nervous (and shuffling around) for a reason - not because they don't know what they are doing but because they know the share price is under pressure (yes, I am sure they are more than aware of) and they want to give the best information they can, without being slapped with another 500k fine for apparently withholding information (has anyone considered this?)

I wouldn't write off PEB dropping out of NZX 50, just like I wouldn't write in Scales joining the NZX 50, PEB share price as we have seen before is extremely volatile, could be $300m market cap by end of next week, could be $200m who knows. I wouldn't be surprised to see another great upcoming company, Arvida Group, join the NZX 50 soon either (market cap $240m - and I, like many brokers, think this is undervalued by about 20-30%, but that's a discussion for another thread I realise)

I love how active this forum has become, really interesting to see what everyone else is saying, one thing is clear, the next 2 years are going to be make or break for PEB.
(they may be able to make the 100m claim by 2018 but if it is only 10m at end of 2017 [highly unlikely] it will be extremely hard to meet the 100m revenue claim)

[couta1]

TJ, I like your post but calling Arvida a great upcoming company is stretching things a bit too far but thats a discussion for another thread, just saying.

[Carpenterjoe]

100 million 100 million 100 million 100 million
If they dont get there they are failures, useless, dont know what they are doing, incompetent directors.
Etc etc blah blah
It is a goal, something to strive for, aim at, guideline, estimate.
It is not the wholly grayle:)

Anything within 25% would be admirable providing

THEY ARE CASHFLOW POSITIVE.

Dont know why we have to have this rigid, binding, set in concrete, tenet hanging over our heads like the Sword of Damocles.
100 million or else.
Gimme a break

All meant in the nicest possible way.:)

Thanks Miner,

[skid]

100 million 100 million 100 million 100 million
If they dont get there they are failures, useless, dont know what they are doing, incompetent directors.
Etc etc blah blah
It is a goal, something to strive for, aim at, guideline, estimate.
It is not the wholly grayle:)

Anything within 25% would be admirable providing

THEY ARE CASHFLOW POSITIVE.

Dont know why we have to have this rigid, binding, set in concrete, tenet hanging over our heads like the Sword of Damocles.
100 million or else.
Gimme a break

All meant in the nicest possible way.:)

OK..... 75mil+ cap raising cost-(and you forgot to tell us how that is going to happen)-(actually I think most shareholders would settle for breaking even on their investment at this stage)

[skid]

That's because it did all its falling today whereas other NZX50 stocks have been falling all week, many by more than 6.6%, you go and do the maths.

Im finding it hard believe that you really think that Coutts--With all thats gone on in the past day.

Your the first to admit you have made a few mistakes along the way--You got lucky when you averaged down with Xro and got out by the skin of your teeth before it dropped back down,but have you really learned from your past decisions?
Its very hard to accept a loss (I commend Bobcat for his decision to change tactics)

If you wait to break even on this one you could be waiting a long time and miss other opportunities or perhaps protect what you still have(the share market is a dangerous place atm Imo,and a loss is a loss whichever way it comes)
Whether the share market in general is a place to be at this stage is up for debate,and maybe worth thinking about.
No one said this sort of thing was not dang frustrating but the signs are not looking good and you can always return if the tide turns--Its time to put at least part of the blame on management rather than other posters.IMO


PS-who cares if its Franco or balance(or Mac or Moosie by some other name.

[couta1]

Skid if someone has to keep changing names to post then you have to question their integrity IMO. If others want to sell for a loss that's their decision( Perhaps some didn't have much at stake anyway) I've often sold stocks for what I call Petty cash losses here and there ( I put any loss of a couple of K or so in that category) and moved elsewhere( I dont find that a tough decision) I'm not going to realise my 40k paper loss in Peb quite simply because I don't believe their is any need to and that the company will eventually do well.

[trader_jackson]

I agree with you couta1, PEB will eventually do well, the question is always opportunity cost (of buying another share that might do even better).

Having considered opportunity cost (as someone else mentioned before) in PEB's case I think a 2-3 year 'turn around' time (in terms of a share price rise) is relatively short, and certainly possible. Would not surprise me to see at the end of 2017 a share price of $2, as I've said before, good things do take time.

[blackcap]

Skid if someone has to keep changing names to post then you have to question their integrity IMO. If others want to sell for a loss that's their decision( Perhaps some didn't have much at stake anyway) I've often sold stocks for what I call Petty cash losses here and there ( I put any loss of a couple of K or so in that category) and moved elsewhere( I dont find that a tough decision) I'm not going to realise my 40k paper loss in Peb quite simply because I don't believe their is any need to and that the company will eventually do well.

Hi Couta, that may be, and PEB may well be a great company with a great product and financially viable. But.... as anything in finance, time is essential. If PEB do get the 100m sales even say in 2019 that may still mean a share price of 60 cents or even less. There may be a capital raising, further dilution, $100m sales may not be as profitable as ppl thought etc. In my opinion, there are other less risky, more potentially profitable (for shareholder) opportunities around. I believe that is exactly what the market has been saying the last few weeks/months with this stock. It would not surprise me in this environment to see further slippage.

[Balance]

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/352567/pacific-edge-strategy-succeeding-meeting-told

After all the comments from the company about signing up U.S. National providers in 2013 providing access to tens of millions of clients, Company is still talking 'millions of potential tests opportunities' - no wonder the sp fell heavily yesterday. Market and experienced investors were expecting to hear about hundreds of thousands of tests sold by now.

[skid]

Skid if someone has to keep changing names to post then you have to question their integrity IMO. If others want to sell for a loss that's their decision( Perhaps some didn't have much at stake anyway) I've often sold stocks for what I call Petty cash losses here and there ( I put any loss of a couple of K or so in that category) and moved elsewhere( I dont find that a tough decision) I'm not going to realise my 40k paper loss in Peb quite simply because I don't believe their is any need to and that the company will eventually do well.

No problem--I honestly didnt mean any defense by the post--I hope someday you do break even,but what was your paper loss a few weeks ago?---Are you sure you are going in the right direction?--Anyway best of luck---It may well bounce a bit from over reaction but I would give it some serious thought---This is not a term deposit that automatically collects interest as time goes on--There is a possibility it could (God forbid) come completely unstuck.---So far you have 40K telling you things have not gone well.

[skid]

I agree with you couta1, PEB will eventually do well, the question is always opportunity cost (of buying another share that might do even better).

Having considered opportunity cost (as someone else mentioned before) in PEB's case I think a 2-3 year 'turn around' time (in terms of a share price rise) is relatively short, and certainly possible. Would not surprise me to see at the end of 2017 a share price of $2, as I've said before, good things do take time.

A share price of $2(you obviously agree with Mac on that one)----But what have they done so far to convince you of that?

[skid]

100 million 100 million 100 million 100 million
If they dont get there they are failures, useless, dont know what they are doing, incompetent directors.
Etc etc blah blah
It is a goal, something to strive for, aim at, guideline, estimate.
It is not the wholly grayle:)

Anything within 25% would be admirable providing

THEY ARE CASHFLOW POSITIVE.

Dont know why we have to have this rigid, binding, set in concrete, tenet hanging over our heads like the Sword of Damocles.
100 million or else.
Gimme a break

All meant in the nicest possible way.:)

Sorry Miner--cash flow positive doesnt cut it unless they make a substantial amount ---You can throw your toys out of the cot all you want ,but it was them who came up with the figure of 100mil.
All we are doing is judging their performance by their own guidelines.

[BlackPeter]

And you are going to be mercilessly judgemental at every turn for the next four full years of reporting until they either have or have not made that figure. Tell you what Skid , that is nothing compared to the uproar on here if they do.
Everything is so black and white, ever heard of grey?:)

Hi Miner ... what do you mean with "four full years"? In my calendar is 2018 only three years away ... and while they didn't provide any new information in the recent AGM ... they confirmed that 2018 is supposed to be this magic 9-digit dollar revenue year.

Not that it matters for me (I cut my losses) - but I guess it should be possible to draw already prior to that date some conclusions re their chances to reach this goal, just by following the 6 monthly revenue growth - wouldn't you think so?

If we start with the $2M they made in 2015 (revenue, not state subsidies) and look at the $100M they claim for 2018, than they need from now on a measly revenue growth of 268% per year (though much higher than their current CAGR, which would be unusual for a growth company - it normally slows down) ... or do you assume that their revenue flatlines until 2017 and achieves the growth all in the last year?

[skid]

And you are going to be mercilessly judgemental at every turn for the next four full years of reporting until they either have or have not made that figure. Tell you what Skid , that is nothing compared to the uproar on here if they do.
Everything is so black and white, ever heard of grey?:)

You have to have some sort of figure to go on Miner--why not use the figure they said?

You saw the AGM--Do you really believe what you are claiming?------And if so -what have they done to earn that belief?---Do you realize the monumental task ahead for those guys you saw giving the presentation?

Its not a case of sour grapes or impatience--they have made enough mistakes that I believe it is now a case of them earning investors respect---There were times before when I and many of us thought they deserved the benefit of the doubt (I put money on it at one point) but IMO those days are gone utill they produce.
They have been put in charge of a great product and it is looking as if they have dropped the ball.(they have alot of grey area to get through before we get a sniff of success)

PS-thanx for the little smiley face.

[skid]

In reality I think you can chuck all the revenue growth projections based on Detect, 100 million, 2018/19 out the window.
Its a different game plan now with Triage coming on board anyway
The 1.9 mill made in 2015 was basically from Detect alone.
With Triage supposedly being launched in Sept we wont see much in the Nov HY but May FY could be very very interesting.
Oh yeah, and the slide said five full years so do you believe whats written or whats said.
We have only had one so there are 4 left. Whatever year that is.
Always good to get feedback though, you never know what might come out of the debate:)
Cheers
Miner

Do you remember when you first heard that 5 yr goal---does it seem like 1 yr ago?

[Crackity]

And you are going to be mercilessly judgemental at every turn for.....
Everything is so black and white, ever heard of grey?:)


I think actually this stock and company will either go BIG or go home - it is definitely not a grey area!

[Balance]

Do you remember when you first heard that 5 yr goal---does it seem like 1 yr ago?

2013.

Oct 2013 when excited company announced first exciting sale in excitement market USA. :D

[skid]

The tall poppy syndrome BOUGHT it (all the way up to $1.70) back then management could do no wrong (remember?)---but yes I agree, lets monitor.. My only issue is when ''authorities'' try to encourage new investors that this is a exciting ''sure thing''---Im sure you remember Macs wonderful ''schedule for the future''===40% profit for those who want it (they have probably lost that amount since then)--Is he still around to take responsibility? (If he is ,its not by that name)

What have you ''detected'' since you started posting? Was it an inkling of what has happened?

In terms of paying..most have paid dearly for their venture --Maybe just monitoring is not such a bad idea

[gypsy]

The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient."

Most people either get greedy or panic when they see share prices jumping around. They become their own worst enemy.

Buffett buys companies he wants to own 50 years from now, and ignores the noise of the market.

[blobbles]

I am really, really glad you BROUGHT that up, Skid.
Back in some of the farthest pages of this thread WERE a lot of postings as to the outcome of all this.
Some have disappeared, some not.
I doubt you read back that far, before they went, otherwise you would know that some of the most "encouraging" remarks were made by people who "allegedly" sold out near the top and went on to become a bunch of moaning bears ever since.
5.00 a share was mentioned by one of these and 30 to 40 % uptake by the other.
Now we cant find either of them.
Your suggestion that "encouraging" remarks made on this thread are responsible for share price movements upwards, (with blame attached, no less), is as ludicrous as my suggesting that your " less than enthusiastic" postings are responsible for the downwards.
Youall have a nice day.:)

Hey, one of those dudes was me!

I still think it could (and should) get up to that level of uptake and SP at that level would be a hell of a lot more than $5 a share IMHO. It would be more like $10 a share, particularly if they were then growing other markets. This, I still believe is a realistic and possible goal, providing they keep battling and driving towards their goals. There are huge oppourtunities coming up - the results (and possible uptake) from the Kaiser study, CMS coverage, VA and other sign ups from providers.

But management sold when the SP went ballistic. That set off alarm bells for me, so I did too. I kept the faith looking to buy in, and still are, but other safer oppourtunities presented themselves. I got burnt believing they would have decent sales ~$1 mark, but that didn't happen either. So I stayed out all this time. Now, I am waiting for evidence of them doing the biso before buying in again, otherwise its too risky and there are too little results to show right now. The shaky AGMs aren't helping them a lot either.

PEB could go large. My bet is that it will, still. But until some encouraging results appear, there are better oppourtunities elsewhere for my cash to go. Sad but reality I think for many of us. It was great though that they had enough people who support them strongly which enabled the capital raising to go off. 37m should keep them going for a few years. Lets hope the 100m is an understatement and that in 3 years they are on 150m! My bet is they will have a watershed moment where a number of providers will sign up after the scientific results become too good to pass up. Once one or two sign up, others will likely start to fall in as well - even providers who currently show no interest as they will be at a competitive disadvantage. At that point 40% may become a target that is too low as providers who end up using Cx successfully will likely be lobbying to have the test put into the bladder cancer screening SOP for the entire market (can't remember the terminology). At that point, the sky will be the limit - other countries would take up the product and Cx will be selling like hot cakes!

Then again, a takeover prior to this is also quite likely. :-(

[couta1]

Good post blobbles and if I may quote Mac, Tick Tock:cool:

[nextbigthing]

The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient."



Correct. In this case it has been brilliant at transferring wealth from impatient shareholders to patient management. :D

[nextbigthing]

Not directly related to PEB, but this article may give an insight into the difficulty of trying to change the health system and screening programs.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/70596390/Ministry-of-Health-block-on-bowel-screening-kits-frightening

[kiwidollabill]

Curious, current PEB holders, did any of you also have a stake in ICP Bio years back?

[twotic]

Yes and in April 2014 they got paid for it.

Hi Miner, just to confirm, during the AGM Chris Swann was specifically asked about this (by one of the brokering houses representatives). Swann confirmed two things.

1) 2013 was their first year of commercial trading.
2) 100m is therefore expected in 2018.

Once and for all that should put an end to the 1000s of posts regarding the $100m.

[Balance]

Events at the AGM this year are looking like a huge turning point for perception of PEB in the market, or more to the point, a huge turn-off for the market and some shareholders.

It would have been a huge and traumatic shock to many of the faithful to know for the first time that the Chairman and CEO, after waxing lyrical about the company's prospects and urging support for the capital raising, did not support the capital raising themselves. Worse was the comment that they might have if they could make a few bob from trading the rights! So it's heads they win, tails you lose?

" His bizarre response to the question regarding directors not taking up their rights in the capital raise capped it all off. For some reason he went down the track of suggesting things could have been different if the rights issue had created some value and at the very least directors could then have had the chance to trade their rights....??"

Well, it is looking like 55 cents today :scared: and that takes the share to where it was in 2012 before the infamous $100m revenues in 5 years, eh maybe 6 years and soon to be 10 years?

[twotic]

Events at the AGM this year are looking like a huge turning point for perception of PEB in the market, or more to the point, a huge turn-off for the market and some shareholders.

It would have been a shock to many of the faithful to know for the first time that the Chairman and CEO, after waxing lyrical about the company's prospects and urging support for the capital raising, did not support the capital raising themselves. Worse was the comment that they maight have if they could make a few bob from trading the rights!

Well, it is looking like 55 cents today and that takes the share to where it was in 2012 before the infamous $100m revenues in 5 years, eh maybe 6 years and soon to be 10 years?

Franko, I find it odd that reposting things over and over seems to make you feel so good. It becomes even stranger that you repost other peoples comments, about things you have demonstrated time and time again that you actually know nothing about.

I doubt you will respond to this as several people, including myself have tried to take you up on similar things, but would you please consider quiting filling up the thread with the same old crap. It really is tiresome.

If you have new thoughts or even better new factual information by all means post away, but the same thing over and over again? I don't know mate, maybe you have little else to do and this is what tickles your fancy.....

Perhaps the alternative is just to block you. Maybe something people could think about if they are feeling the same way as me.

Think about it mate, please.

[couta1]

Yep twotic and it would be good if he posted under just one name, why do people think they should use two or more posting names? perhaps it gives their ego an extra boost or maybe they think they can post more using several names? Quite a mystery really.

[trader_jackson]

Franko I believe some of these people you refer to not supporting the capital raising (and the bla bla that goes with your post about this) were in fact not able to even if they wanted to... I am not 100% sure myself, but please do check your facts.

I would personally be much more confident if a external 3rd party (like the several institutions who have actually built up a stake in PEB) put money into it that the actual executives themselves, as those institutions need results for their investors (in some cases they're investing other people's life savings)... David Darling, well if he wants to build another deck or some other home addition this year (like 2013) instead of take part in the capital raising this doesn't have much of an effect beyond his personal choices/finances... (surprised you haven't considered this)

[Balance]

Twotic, share price has fallen to 56 cents post the AGM (8% drop against the rights price of 61 cents and 23% against the pre-announcement price of 73 cents) - explaining the fall does not constitute reposting. It's building up the case as to why.

[Balance]

Franko I believe some of these people you refer to not supporting the capital raising (and the bla bla that goes with your post about this) were in fact not able to even if they wanted to... I am not 100% sure myself, but please do check your facts.

I would personally be much more confident if a external 3rd party (like the several institutions who have actually built up a stake in PEB) put money into it that the actual executives themselves, as those institutions need results for their investors (in some cases they're investing other people's life savings)... David Darling, well if he wants to build another deck or some other home addition this year (like 2013) instead of take part in the capital raising this doesn't have much of an effect beyond his personal choices/finances... (surprised you haven't considered this)

Think about the Chairman's comments about not supporting the capital raising as the rights weren't heavily in the money and that's why they could not trade, and take up the rights. Bizarre and weird logic.

[Balance]

Market cap now down to $210m. :eek2:

[trader_jackson]

Franko, the whole New Zealand market has been falling, and PEB, being a volatile stock, has been fittingly been affected more than most.

I think everyone on here agrees the AGM did not go 'flawlessly', and a lot of investors in PEB are nervous (understandingly as well), time will tell. Nothing material has been announced since the capital raising, in which time you are right the share price went to low 60's, now in high 50's post AGM. So the AGM, which we all agree didn't go that well (on the whole), has been the only thing that has had a small effect (5% or so since the lows during the capital raising). Nothing material about PEB's all important user programmes has been announced what so ever. There is therefore no other logical reason, except for negative investor sediment (most likely only as a result of general market sediment, and a fairly average AGM), as to why PEB's share price has realistically fallen... you seem to make out it is falling as a result of PEB's business detreating... like most investors, except the greats like warren, people on this forum can't just give PEB a couple more years

[Balance]

Franko, the whole New Zealand market has been falling, and PEB, being a volatile stock, has been fittingly been affected more than most.

I think everyone on here agrees the AGM did not go 'flawlessly', and a lot of investors in PEB are nervous (understandingly as well), time will tell. Nothing material has been announced since the capital raising, in which time you are right the share price went to low 60's, now in high 50's post AGM. So the AGM, which we all agree didn't go that well (on the whole), has been the only thing that has had a small effect (5% or so since the lows during the capital raising). Nothing material about PEB's all important user programmes has been announced what so ever. There is therefore no other except for negative investor sediment (most likely only as a result of general market sediment, and a fairly average AGM) as to why PEB's share price has fallen... you seem to make out it is falling as a result of PEB's business detreating... this simply cannot logically be the case

There was a lot of anticipation that PEB would announce something material at the AGM. There was also hope that there would be a solid update about how the year was progressing. The fact that nothing material or solid was announced is a huge disappointment? You will recall you were hoping for a trading halt for eg?

[trader_jackson]

Yes I was hoping something good, great in fact, would be announced at the AGM (although I was cautioned that I was pretty hopeful as many others didn't actually expect this). Just because this didn't happen, doesn't mean I am suddenly running for the high hills, like the greatest investors in this world, I'm more than happy to wait and not panicking about a company that has a good 3-4 years worth of cash in the bank with no debt, and sales revenue up 100's of % - these are the fundamentals which people seem to so easily forget in the shadow of a less than ideal AGM

[twotic]

Twotic, share price has fallen to 56 cents post the AGM (8% drop against the rights price of 61 cents and 23% against the pre-announcement price of 73 cents) - explaining the fall does not constitute reposting. It's building up the case as to why.

Seriously, do you want to go down this track? You are not fooling anyone.

The issue I have is that you reposted something I posted and in doing so have added nothing to the thread. What is even more pathetic is you were not at the AGM and you did not know the directors were even questioned about taking up their rights issue. In fact you initially incorrectly posted that they were not questioned. I subsequently corrected you on this point. Now you repost it?

You are not adding anything by doing this, just filling up the forum with clutter. Don't bother replying, I'm blocking you anyway.

Continue to get your jollies by doing what ever you think you are doing. I aint gonna waste anymore time sifting through ur garbage though.

[Hoop]

Curious, current PEB holders, did any of you also have a stake in ICP Bio years back?

This On and off PEB investor had an interest in BIO ..Do I qualify Kiwidollabill :)..:(

[kiwidollabill]

This On and off PEB investor had an interest in BIO ..Do I qualify Kiwidollabill :)..:(

I should think so, you must be a glutton for punishment :). has the BIO thread been lost in the ravages of sharetrader time?

[skid]

Hey, one of those dudes was me!

I still think it could (and should) get up to that level of uptake and SP at that level would be a hell of a lot more than $5 a share IMHO. It would be more like $10 a share, particularly if they were then growing other markets. This, I still believe is a realistic and possible goal, providing they keep battling and driving towards their goals. There are huge oppourtunities coming up - the results (and possible uptake) from the Kaiser study, CMS coverage, VA and other sign ups from providers.

But management sold when the SP went ballistic. That set off alarm bells for me, so I did too. I kept the faith looking to buy in, and still are, but other safer oppourtunities presented themselves. I got burnt believing they would have decent sales ~$1 mark, but that didn't happen either. So I stayed out all this time. Now, I am waiting for evidence of them doing the biso before buying in again, otherwise its too risky and there are too little results to show right now. The shaky AGMs aren't helping them a lot either.

PEB could go large. My bet is that it will, still. But until some encouraging results appear, there are better oppourtunities elsewhere for my cash to go. Sad but reality I think for many of us. It was great though that they had enough people who support them strongly which enabled the capital raising to go off. 37m should keep them going for a few years. Lets hope the 100m is an understatement and that in 3 years they are on 150m! My bet is they will have a watershed moment where a number of providers will sign up after the scientific results become too good to pass up. Once one or two sign up, others will likely start to fall in as well - even providers who currently show no interest as they will be at a competitive disadvantage. At that point 40% may become a target that is too low as providers who end up using Cx successfully will likely be lobbying to have the test put into the bladder cancer screening SOP for the entire market (can't remember the terminology). At that point, the sky will be the limit - other countries would take up the product and Cx will be selling like hot cakes!

Then again, a takeover prior to this is also quite likely. :-(

Excellent post Bobs!--Optimistic, but not silly enough to watch your money disappear

my sentiments as well-- Hopefully someday.......

[skid]

The stock market is a device for transferring money from the impatient to the patient."

Most people either get greedy or panic when they see share prices jumping around. They become their own worst enemy.

Buffett buys companies he wants to own 50 years from now, and ignores the noise of the market.

Theres a saying for every occasion--Hows this one going for you?--I patiently watched ppp go from 22 to 5 (never again)

[skid]

Meanwhile.... I guess we just monitor and see if the sp becomes range bound again and at what point