PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[Minerbarejet]

If Martin practices what he preaches he would have exited before it got to .85

I remember Mac being a great fan of ATM along with PEB--If he is still holding he will certainly be happy with the former.The point was, if Martin or anyone else had just held on he would have doubled his money almost with AIR which at todays interest rates would take 20 years or more. All very well exiting at before .85 but then what? Get into something else? Whats pretty well guaranteed there is that the former that you are no longer in will go up and the new one will go down. Swapping back over again with reduced stake wont work either because then the former will go down and the latter will go up.
Exciting, eh.

[skid]

The point was, if Martin or anyone else had just held on he would have doubled his money almost with AIR which at todays interest rates would take 20 years or more. All very well exiting at before .85 but then what? Get into something else? Whats pretty well guaranteed there is that the former that you are no longer in will go up and the new one will go down. Swapping back over again with reduced stake wont work either because then the former will go down and the latter will go up.
Exciting, eh.

Hows that strategy going for you,Miner?

[trader_jackson]

Hows that strategy going for you,Miner?

I've put this in my 'bottom draw', and I'm sure Miner has as well.

No point getting excited about something you don't even intend to bother looking at substantially selling for quite literally several years.

Yet everyone on here gets excited about the minute by minute movements. I see my post a couple days back has not helped... I'll repeat it and see if anyone listens, or if most posters continue to put there head in the sand intent on "destroying" a company which hasn't even had a chance to prove itself (commercially)

What amazes me is how people continue to not actually focus on the business (eg income increasing far more than expenses as a %), but instead insist on personal attacks on management or even other members on here (without taking much into consideration), bring up 'selected bad news' articles (which are generally completely out of date, brought up before, or extremely vague its hard to tell whats going on), and seem to think that because things are running slightly behind schedule (or at least some would argue this) its all managements fault (and ignore the fact its generally buracratic issues). It is, unfortunately, thanks to people that continually make these statements that quality members, who actually understood PEB inside out, have left in droves.

[Minerbarejet]

Hows that strategy going for you,Miner?Im all at sea.
But there is a fair bit of PEB in the bottom drawer to" balance "things out.
Still waiting for CDY to "restore "things as well.

[Crackity]

bring up 'selected bad news' articles (which are generally completely out of date, brought up before, or extremely vague its hard to tell whats going on), and seem to think that because things are running slightly behind schedule (or at least some would argue this) its all managements fault (and ignore the fact its generally buracratic issues). It is, unfortunately, thanks to people that continually make these statements that quality members, who actually understood PEB inside out, have left in droves.

TJ - it is quite possible that the members who understand PEB inside out are still here ;)

[Minerbarejet]

TJ - it is quite possible that the members who understand PEB inside out are still here ;)
Thats pretty handy then, - PEBs still here as well:)

[skid]

I've put this in my 'bottom draw', and I'm sure Miner has as well.

No point getting excited about something you don't even intend to bother looking at substantially selling for quite literally several years.

Yet everyone on here gets excited about the minute by minute movements. I see my post a couple days back has not helped... I'll repeat it and see if anyone listens, or if most posters continue to put there head in the sand intent on "destroying" a company which hasn't even had a chance to prove itself (commercially)

What amazes me is how people continue to not actually focus on the business (eg income increasing far more than expenses as a %), but instead insist on personal attacks on management or even other members on here (without taking much into consideration), bring up 'selected bad news' articles (which are generally completely out of date, brought up before, or extremely vague its hard to tell whats going on), and seem to think that because things are running slightly behind schedule (or at least some would argue this) its all managements fault (and ignore the fact its generally buracratic issues). It is, unfortunately, thanks to people that continually make these statements that quality members, who actually understood PEB inside out, have left in droves.

Thats not why people have left---Its not posters responsible for the situation the company is in at this time--maybe it is bureaucratic issues --If thats the case -blame the bureaucracy-If that doesnt work there is nothing left except the company--blaming posters wont help your situation---If you dont believe the posters who doubt--just disregard .
Its not your place to judge who is quality members --Your time is better spent thinking about the company.

[NT001]

Im all at sea.
But there is a fair bit of PEB in the bottom drawer to" balance "things out.
Still waiting for CDY to "restore "things as well.

Yep, PEB is in my bottom drawer as well. Not selling. No guarantee that I'd find a better (i.e.quicker-yielding) alternative, and anyway ATM is keeping me happy, despite the warnings of some familiar with this thread. But I gave up on CDY and ditched it. I'm not a trader, but it was going nowhere and seemed to be more focussed on hair tonics than on the scientific stuff (cancer diagnostics etc) I'm interested in.

[Minerbarejet]

Yep, PEB is in my bottom drawer as well. Not selling. No guarantee that I'd find a better (i.e.quicker-yielding) alternative, and anyway ATM is keeping me happy, despite the warnings of some familiar with this thread. But I gave up on CDY and ditched it. I'm not a trader, but it was going nowhere and seemed to be more focussed on hair tonics than on the scientific stuff (cancer diagnostics etc) I'm interested in.The bureaucratic nightmare that has so far been PEBs lot could very well end at any time. The revamping of Obamacare will have affected many companies including PEBs competition. I feel this has been the major stumbling block to PEBs progress as well as the dissonance inherent in this type of advance in medical science.
I cannot understand anyone thinking that virtually anonymous posters on a very minor forum in a very minor country could possibly have an effect on the running of a company. However there are limits to what can be said publicly about companies, other posters, management, that are negative. Im not currently aware of any laws regarding positive statements apart from false and misleading advertising. This would hardly be in the domain of a ST poster.

CDY has come a long way and it is not yet reflected in the SP. The tonics and shampoos are being delivered to Australian and Asian pharmacies and are on the verge of getting into the US and UK. The intent is for this to place CDY in a cash positive position for the development of its midkine products.
Not many small cap biotech companies self funding like that.
Any improvement in PEBs lot will help CDY as well.:)

TJs analysis of why people no longer participate seems pretty spot on to me and he has the freedom to say what he likes within reason as we all are. Some posters are quality posters in his opinion. He is free to express that and it is entirely his place to do so.
Its an opinion not a judgement.
In my opinion.:)

[skid]

Lets face it--he and others spend far to much time commenting on other posters, than on the company,which is what its all about.
He ,and you,can say what you like about your fellow posters,but in the end,you have never met them,and dont really know their quality.
To say the good quality have all left and the bad quality are still around is pure conjecture--If your confident in the company it shouldnt get up your nose anyway--and unless you have personal conversations with posters who have left ,you have no idea why they did so, so throwing out judgments is irrelevant.(some may have left in frustration with the company that has sucked their money)-We dont know do we? If one has an opinion on the quality of posters, then if you must ,state your opinion--But dont throw it out there as fact,thats all.
I realize its not an easy situation for many at this point,but acts of desperation against other posters aint gonna help.
When I comment on a post,its not about the poster;its about the statement they have made regarding the company,especially when some are making assumptions that they have no way of backing up-so its fair game to present the other side of the story.

You seem to think its all about the bureaucratic nightmare that is to blame and all biotecs are suffering,but I think a bit of research would prove that wrong.
Some comments however about management,have been pretty vicious and thats a bit much,I agree.

I also agree, us minor posters arent going to have an affect on the running of the company (or are going to destroy it -TJ) but we can have an affect on our own investment decisions.

I dont think most have even considered the fact that even if Kaiser approves ,sales may not take off as some expect(we dont even know what sort of a deal they would negotiate)---but bottom drawer is fair enough--bottom drawer long term investors who need to check every day? If it rings your bell..

[Minerbarejet]

Lets face it--he and others spend far to much time commenting on other posters, than on the company,which is what its all about.
He ,and you,can say what you like about your fellow posters,but in the end,you have never met them,and dont really know their quality.
To say the good quality have all left and the bad quality are still around is pure conjecture--If your confident in the company it shouldnt get up your nose anyway--and unless you have personal conversations with posters who have left ,you have no idea why they did so, so throwing out judgments is irrelevant.(some may have left in frustration with the company that has sucked their money)-We dont know do we? If one has an opinion on the quality of posters, then if you must ,state your opinion--But dont throw it out there as fact,thats all.
I realize its not an easy situation for many at this point,but acts of desperation against other posters aint gonna help.
When I comment on a post,its not about the poster;its about the statement they have made regarding the company,especially when some are making assumptions that they have no way of backing up-so its fair game to present the other side of the story.

You seem to think its all about the bureaucratic nightmare that is to blame and all biotecs are suffering,but I think a bit of research would prove that wrong.
Some comments however about management,have been pretty vicious and thats a bit much,I agree.

I also agree, us minor posters arent going to have an affect on the running of the company (or are going to destroy it -TJ) but we can have an affect on our own investment decisions.

I dont think most have even considered the fact that even if Kaiser approves ,sales may not take off as some expect(we dont even know what sort of a deal they would negotiate)---but bottom drawer is fair enough--bottom drawer long term investors who need to check every day? If it rings your bell..Sorry, I must have missed something.
This would appear to be an entry for the Misinterpretation of the Year Competition. It will obviously take some time to decipher.

[skid]

Its pretty simple --lets talk about the company and not get to fussed about posters.

[Minerbarejet]

Its pretty simple --lets talk about the company and not get to fussed about posters.Yeah, lets.
You first then.:)

[trader_jackson]

I'll go first :t_up: (said this a while back but anyhow...)

1. Despite not yet receiving key approvals, incomes are already increasing at a rate twice that of expenses (does anyone else want me to upload my table)

2.

[OldGuy]

yet, in absolute dollar terms, expenses grew faster than incomes, causing the loss to widen...

[trader_jackson]

yet, in absolute dollar terms, expenses grew faster than incomes, causing the loss to widen...

Point taken, however I believe Paper Tiger drew up a detailed chart showing that if these trends continued, they would be overall profit by 2020, or basically 4 years time, meaning no new capital raising would be required, so the focus should not be on absolute dollar terms, rather growth percentages

[Crackity]

Point taken, however I believe Paper Tiger drew up a detailed chart showing that if these trends continued, they would be overall profit by 2020, or basically 4 years time, meaning no new capital raising would be required, so the focus should not be on absolute dollar terms, rather growth percentages


Image from http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/extrapolating.png.

[BlackPeter]

Image from http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/extrapolating.png.




LOL - great example for linear extrapolation based on two data points ...!

I guess the other question is as well: even if PT's numbers prove that it is possible to think of numbers which would allow the company to survive - how long can the modelled uncurbed growth continue (at some stage they will reach market saturation) and - how much money will the company generate? I guess its theoretical capability to survive (if PT's assumptions are realistic) is obviously an important criterium, but it is in itself not enough to make it a good investment ...

[kiwidollabill]

My Guesstimate predicts another cap raise by mid 2017...

[Crackity]

My Guesstimate predicts another cap raise by mid 2017...


Ok Bill -I'm happy to play - how many shares and at what price per share are you predicting? And why not late 2016? ;)

[skid]

Point taken, however I believe Paper Tiger drew up a detailed chart showing that if these trends continued, they would be overall profit by 2020, or basically 4 years time, meaning no new capital raising would be required, so the focus should not be on absolute dollar terms, rather growth percentages

Could you please define ''if these trends continue'' (please show your work (as my teacher used to say)especially in the latter stages of your graph along with the reasons validating the sequence.

http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq...g.pennies.html

What the heck--If they are not going to show us their business plan --lets try to formulate one ourselves:)

[kiwidollabill]

Ok Bill -I'm happy to play - how many shares and at what price per share are you predicting? And why not late 2016? ;)

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.... I'll be more specific, rights/cap raise done by March 2017 (advertised prior of course).

They'll pitch for $40M @ 0.20

You want to wager? Winner gets 1x share of PEB....

[Balance]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/biolight-announces-partnership-with-axella-research-for-celldetect-non-invasive-test-for-monitoring-recurrence-of-bladder-cancer-558716471.html

They obviously have not heard about CxBladder?

[Crackity]

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.... I'll be more specific, rights/cap raise done by March 2017 (advertised prior of course).

They'll pitch for $40M @ 0.20

You want to wager? Winner gets 1x share of PEB....

so the wager is PEB will raise at least $40 million NZD at a share price of 20c per share or more prior to 31 / 3 -2017 (tel:31 / 3 -2017) ?

[kiwidollabill]

so the wager is PEB will raise st least $40 million NZD at a share price of 20c per share or more prior to 31 / 3 -2017 (tel:31 / 3 -2017) ?

Yea why not, I consider them having to do this as a failed execution of their strategy anywho...

[Crackity]

Yea why not, I consider them having to do this as a failed execution of their strategy anywho...

done - bottle of single malt instead of 1 PEB share?

[kiwidollabill]

done - bottle of single malt instead of 1 PEB share?

You're suppose to mention the prize prior to the wager....

Single Malt or 1x PEB share, whatever is worth less.....

[Crackity]

You're suppose to mention the prize prior to the wager....

Single Malt or 1x PEB share, whatever is worth less.....


Ok - that is much less fun Bill!

[OldGuy]

IMHO: PEB have now MISSED their opportunity. The competition is heating up rapdily, and any chance of a first mover advantage has all but disappeared. New scientific discoveries are being made all the time, many directly related to cancer detection. PEB will soon be swamped by competitors with far more resources and savvy governance. Its over.

IMHO!

[skid]

IMHO: PEB have now MISSED their opportunity. The competition is heating up rapdily, and any chance of a first mover advantage has all but disappeared. New scientific discoveries are being made all the time, many directly related to cancer detection. PEB will soon be swamped by competitors with far more resources and savvy governance. Its over.

IMHO!

If things do fall into place,with Kaiser etc.,what we could see is a head and shoulders type growth chart(the fall off the shoulder as a result of the competition you mentioned)
3 possible scenarios?
-things dont get off the ground and growth never really gets going(approval doesnt happen-competitor steals market,etc)-Cap raisings-Kaput..
-things click and growth starts and continues building upon itself and takes off and eventually gets to the target(before competition catches up)
-things click,growth starts ,gets to a point and levels off as competition comes and then drops as more competitors come who are backed by large players.

There could of course be combinations of the 3(growth could start-level off and drop a bit but carry on at a modest level(just kind of hanging in there as a modest 10-20c share)

I believe Macs $2 SP scenario (where Air New Zealand was valued,some months back) would be a monumental task now.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/275045

Have a closer look at the announcement and financials. The usual 'blah blah blah' 10,000 urologists in US, millions of test sales opportunities etc but here's a standout :

Trade sales was $1.797m in half year but get this, trade receivables grew by $1.604m to $4.188m - ie. 89% of sales are sitting in receivables!

So not a timing issue anymore - it is pointing to a fundamental flaw in PEB's business strategy where they are building up huge receivables and collecting only around 11% to 12% of sales year on year!

In some businesses, it is called 'giving your products away'.

[BlackPeter]

I assume many of these outstanding receivables are waiting for a successful conclusion of user trials and / or approval processes. However - you certainly have a point. This is a high risk sales strategy. If any of these milestones happen to fail (or be delayed again and again and again, as seems to happen at current), than the money is simply gone. Clearly - they couldn't take their test back and resell them ...).

[skid]

as with everything regarding PEB...that could be good or bad news---It kind of depends on Kaiser(I assume thats where the trade receivables are sitting)--They have kind of got a gun to PEBs head---How will it affect a deal if there is one?---How many millions have to build up before Kaiser decides to save all that expense and bail (if they are allowed to do that?)
On the other hand if all works out its a shot in the arm for PEB--the question then is will enough tests be sold (or just to the ones a on the critical side of their (Kaisers)new assessment schedule.)

[Minerbarejet]

1. RECEIVABLESGROUP2015$2014$
Accounts Receivable 1,645,898 352,892
Sundry Debtors 842,033 -
Accrued Interest 40,504 133,150
GST/BAS Refund Due 55,376 88,199
Total Receivables 2,583,811 574,241
No allowance for bad debts have been recognised for the year ended 31 March 2015,
amounts overdue butnot impaired are as follows:
- $1,416,980 is within 0 – 180 days old
- $163,197 is within 181 – 305 days old
- $65,721 is over 365 days old but is still expected to be recovered.

Will be interesting to see at FY16 what the FY has produced in cashflow. If the entire 0-180 from FY16 has moved down to over 365 it would seem payment is a tad slow.

[Balance]

1. RECEIVABLESGROUP2015$2014$
Accounts Receivable 1,645,898 352,892
Sundry Debtors 842,033 -
Accrued Interest 40,504 133,150
GST/BAS Refund Due 55,376 88,199
Total Receivables 2,583,811 574,241
No allowance for bad debts have been recognised for the year ended 31 March 2015,
amounts overdue butnot impaired are as follows:
- $1,416,980 is within 0 – 180 days old
- $163,197 is within 181 – 305 days old
- $65,721 is over 365 days old but is still expected to be recovered.

Will be interesting to see at FY16 what the FY has produced in cashflow. If the entire 0-180 from FY16 has moved down to over 365 it would seem payment is a tad slow.

Not often do we see credit extended for more than 90 days absolute maximum.

PEB has $218,000 over 6 months old but they are not bad debts.

So what are they?

[Bing]

Not often do we see credit extended for more than 90 days absolute maximum.

PEB has $218,000 over 6 months old but they are not bad debts.

So what are they?

Could be Medicare. This has been on their website for ages:

"Pacific Edge is a Medicare provider. Pacific Edge will accept patients with Medicare coverage, and these patients will have no financial responsibility for Cxbladder. "

Would be a nice cash boost once (if) the agreement is signed.

Or it could be something else...

[skid]

Could be Medicare. This has been on their website for ages:

"Pacific Edge is a Medicare provider. Pacific Edge will accept patients with Medicare coverage, and these patients will have no financial responsibility for Cxbladder. "

Would be a nice cash boost once (if) the agreement is signed.

Or it could be something else...

OK -Im not ashamed to say thats a hard statement to get my head around (if no agreement is signed yet)

In terms of the $218,000,I guess its not a bad debt if it has'nt been accepted yet (in the case of Kaiser)

Boy that interim report really made a splash!

[Balance]

OK -Im not ashamed to say thats a hard statement to get my head around (if no agreement is signed yet)

In terms of the $218,000,I guess its not a bad debt if it has'nt been accepted yet (in the case of Kaiser)



It's called desperation.

Provide the test because it would be sitting on the shelf otherwise and account for it but has no guarantee it will be paid?

Reminds me of the ole 'sell or return' which created an illusion of sales with Feltex but ultimately, proved to be its demise.

Man - one can see some weird stuff, accounting wise, with some of the listed companies!

[kiwidollabill]

Another about turn...

18-24 months ago they get rid of their NZ based marketing staff and contract the work out. Now bringing it back in house http://www.seek.co.nz/job/30051587

[Balance]

Another about turn...

18-24 months ago they get rid of their NZ based marketing staff and contract the work out. Now bringing it back in house http://www.seek.co.nz/job/30051587

It's called desperation # 2

[Bing]

The goals for FY16 still to be completed (taken from company releases):

1. New partner in Australia (soon - finalising discussions)
2. Launch of cxBladder Monitor (in NZ by end 2015)
3. Obtain US CLIA laboratory approval for Triage and thereby complete launch of Triage in US (Dec 15)
4. Launch of www.bladdercancer.me end Dec 15
5. Sign agreement with Veterans Administration (end FY, Mar 16)
6. Sign agreement with Centre for Medicaid and Medicare Services (end FY Mar, 16)
7. Recruit further 2 sales persons
8. Continue user programmes (KP etc.)

Time will tell how well they do.

[Balance]

The goals for FY16 still to be completed (taken from company releases):

1. New partner in Australia (soon - finalising discussions)
2. Launch of cxBladder Monitor (in NZ by end 2015)
3. Obtain US CLIA laboratory approval for Triage and thereby complete launch of Triage in US (Dec 15)
4. Launch of www.bladdercancer.me end Dec 15
5. Sign agreement with Veterans Administration (end FY, Mar 16)
6. Sign agreement with Centre for Medicaid and Medicare Services (end FY Mar, 16)
7. Recruit further 2 sales persons
8. Continue user programmes (KP etc.)

Time will tell how well they do.

Time? Nope. PEB should tell but ..

.. PEB will NOT tell how well or badly they are doing as they continue to wax lyrical about millions and tens of thousands, but will not disclose how many tests they have actually sold!

Balance sheet shows receivables growing at a faster rate than sales. What does that TELL us?

[skid]

No 5 and 6--just what does that mean?

Is it a done deal ,but just needs to be formalized,or are they still hoping they can negotiate something. (or have they said ''come back when you have passed more tests and then we'll talk'')

Launches are great but something's got to back them up...ie ..5,6,and 8

[When the bass drops]

I'm a personal holder of this stock, and others like it, and I'm willing to see out any of the progress of this company over the next 2 - 3 years.
1. Nothing has materially changed with the company fundamentals despite all the market noise
2. I have full confidence in their vision and ability to get things done over the next 12-24 months, despite the speed that things are being ticked off thus far
3. PEB is still on track to sell the tests
4. In my view, the price is currently at bargain levels given where we know the price has been, and where the price could be when the PEB plan comes to fruition

I am playing the long game with this company, though I appreciate many of you who have followed the ebb and flow of the PEB story and share price may harbour hardened opinions. You won't see me panicking and selling even if the price dips below 20c over the next 12 months. This is just me.

[Bing]

Amazing what reactions a simple list can get.

So we have
1 - I hate your list
1 - but what does this list mean
1 - I'll stick with my own list thanks

:p

[Minerbarejet]

Support groups A and B will be pleased to read that.:)

In relation to 14092.

[Minerbarejet]

Amazing what reactions a simple list can get.

So we have
1 - I hate your list
1 - but what does this list mean
1 - I'll stick with my own list thanks

:pYou can add
1. My list is the same as yours:)

[skid]

I'm a personal holder of this stock, and others like it, and I'm willing to see out any of the progress of this company over the next 2 - 3 years.
1. Nothing has materially changed with the company fundamentals despite all the market noise
2. I have full confidence in their vision and ability to get things done over the next 12-24 months, despite the speed that things are being ticked off thus far
3. PEB is still on track to sell the tests
4. In my view, the price is currently at bargain levels given where we know the price has been, and where the price could be when the PEB plan comes to fruition

I am playing the long game with this company, though I appreciate many of you who have followed the ebb and flow of the PEB story and share price may harbour hardened opinions. You won't see me panicking and selling even if the price dips below 20c over the next 12 months. This is just me.

Thanks for sharing your opinion WBD--Do you include sticking to schedules and the ability to negotiate and market the product in the fundamentals you speak of?
Could you share what has given you full confidence they have the ability to get things done,how they are still on track,and why their price is a bargain atm.--It would help the debate..

[skid]

The goals for FY16 still to be completed (taken from company releases):

1. New partner in Australia (soon - finalising discussions)
2. Launch of cxBladder Monitor (in NZ by end 2015)
3. Obtain US CLIA laboratory approval for Triage and thereby complete launch of Triage in US (Dec 15)
4. Launch of www.bladdercancer.me end Dec 15
5. Sign agreement with Veterans Administration (end FY, Mar 16)
6. Sign agreement with Centre for Medicaid and Medicare Services (end FY Mar, 16)
7. Recruit further 2 sales persons
8. Continue user programmes (KP etc.)

Time will tell how well they do.

How about ...If 5,6,&8 are done deals -I love your list
If they are getting nowhere on 5,6,&8 I hate your list

I have full confidence that I will either love or hate your list ,given time..

[When the bass drops]

Firstly I will just agree with your initial comment. Its definitely just my opinion. Despite my upbeat points, I will concede that there is always a risk that nothing transpires as there is no such thing as 100% confidence. I know this is at odds with 'full confidence' but I'll be careful with wording in the future.

All I'll say about my 1. 2. and 3. , I believe they will be successful but the timing of some of their targets seems a bit ambitious. I don't have any evidence to back 'what' they will achieve, but my opinion is they eventually will be pulling in good revenue, which will positively reflect in where the share price trades.

The company's war chest of over $30m cash will keep them going and pushing forward towards their milestones.

The current price of about 46c is certainly a bargain compared to where it might be at when PEB ramp up their test sales. From memory, the price got to over $1.70 on the back of a few good company announcements, and well before the company made money.

I wasn't initially going to make many posts on this thread, and this might be one of the last for a while.

[Crackity]

I wasn't initially going to make many posts on this thread, and this might be one of the last for a while.

Hopefully not WTBD - Sharetrader is currently recruiting new members who post stuff;) as we appear to have misplaced some of the established members.

As an aside ( seeing as you are When The Bass Drops ) I went to Western Springs last night on Winners recommendation - Thunderstruck you could actually feel - it was awesomely dumb loud good fun ;)

[Leftfield]

Hopefully not WTBD - Sharetrader is currently recruiting new members who post stuff;)

WTBD don't be too alarmed by some responses. Only time will tell who is right.

[Balance]

1. Nothing has materially changed with the company fundamentals despite all the market noise
4. In my view, the price is currently at bargain levels given where we know the price has been, and where the price could be when the PEB plan comes to fruition



Plenty has materially changed :

- huge costs over-run,

- capital raising (after flagging no more) to keep the company solvent,

- delays in obtaining agreements,

- delays in user programs,

- failure and cancellation of distribution agreement in Australasia,

- failure of distribution agreement in Spain and EU,

- change in timeline to achieve $100m sales, and last but not least

- directors not putting their money where their mouths are.

The world does not standstill, much as PEB and some posters would like it to. Nokia found that it can become feather duster after being rooster on the mount as the world progresses from one development to another.

Bargain level? Feltex was a steal at 2c given it traded at $1.80. Likewise, Pumpkin Patch must be a raging bargain at 13c as it had traded as high as $5.00 and nothing material has changed - the company still survives and sells children's clothings (I think).

[Crackity]

WTBD don't be too alarmed by some responses. Only time will tell who is right.

That was a genuine invitation to post on whatever share you like - the jury is definitely out on PEB - welcome to ST WTBDs ;)

[winner69]

Hopefully not WTBD - Sharetrader is currently recruiting new members who post stuff;) as we appear to have misplaced some of the established members.

As an aside ( seeing as you are When The Bass Drops ) I went to Western Springs last night on Winners recommendation - Thunderstruck you could actually feel - it was awesomely dumb loud good fun ;)

So you enjoyed AC DC eh. Really great spectacle wasn't it. I loved the cannons at the end

Keeping on topic - I would suspect a few of the tens of thousands who went are potential PEB customers if it ever gets widely accepted in nz

[skid]

Thanks for sharing your opinion WBD--Do you include sticking to schedules and the ability to negotiate and market the product in the fundamentals you speak of?
Could you share what has given you full confidence they have the ability to get things done,how they are still on track,and why their price is a bargain atm.--It would help the debate..

Dont mean to pic on you WBD.
On some of the other threads there is wise advice on just what constitutes a bargain. I was actually surprised (as Im sure were many)when the SP dipped from the 60 odd cents for the cap raising to where it is now,so its pretty relative. Its certainly a bargain compared to $1.70 ,but alot of water (and not enough urine) has gone under the bridge since then.
If you have been holding for a while and reading the posts you will have heard the debates(if not ,its educational to do so)
As time goes on without much in the way of results its gets harder to make really positive assumptions-(we kind of need a bit of ''back up'' at this stage.
With the cap raising ,they certainly have the dosh to carry on,but more and more ,its becoming obvious that those approvals and uptakes are the key and I dont think thats a given anymore now that doubt has been cast on the reliability or the urine biomarkers in general,and if approved we still cant be sure of the numbers(sales)
It would be silly to assume they are finished but the jury is out atm--Bioteks are notoriously speculative so I guess it comes with the turf.
What are some of the other similar shares that you mentioned you have?
I sold PEB and dabbled in a few other Bioteks also and they produced better than PEB has so far -I had that discussion when I made the change so I wont get back into that.(the main one was farther along on the growth curve which made it a safer bet to me-(It was brought to my attention by another poster) I wont drop names but I appreciated HER input:)
There could still be money to be made on PEB ,even if they dont make it in the longer term in termsd of SP spikes on announcements ,even if they dont produce--but just looking at performance of PEB compared to other shares on the NZX-its not looking like a winner at this stage-----its a punt.....Welcome to the lions den:)

[skid]

So you enjoyed AC DC eh. Really great spectacle wasn't it. I loved the cannons at the end

Keeping on topic - I would suspect a few of the tens of thousands who went are potential PEB customers if it ever gets widely accepted in nz

I hope they remembered to turn their hearing aids down before those cannons! (unless they brought an extra pair of diapers)

[When the bass drops]

skid/Balance.. I would expect nothing less than a Lions Den. As soon as I clicked reply to my second post of ST, I came to the realisation that each and every thing I said would be scrutinised with evidence and rebuttal from others with contrary viewpoints. I can't really refute your points. I'm holding PEB on a lot of faith and patience.

skid... I love your turn of phrase regarding urine and water. What a wordsmith you are. As you've got out of PEB, I take it you hold a portfolio of shares containing the likes of MFT, FPH, AIA, MET, VHP etc. i.e. a selection of the well knowns. You could set me right.

I won't reveal my other holdings at this stage, but I will say PEB has been a bigger emphasis of my share portfolio. I have a property portfolio away from share trading so I'm in no way setting myself up for financial ruin if PEB goes belly up (for whatever reason).

As I only got into PEB myself in 2014, I haven't experienced the major cycle of fluctuations that many of you have followed or experienced from a return perspective (since 2001). I'm willing to slowly build what I have and keep an eye on all the announcements. Its fair to say I'm putting a lot of faith in these guys and hope to see some good things from now to June 2016. Nothing that has happened so far has made me panic and look to sell my shares at a loss. Long game.

On an AC/DC front, apparently they could be heard from Birkenhead on the North Shore. Wow.

[Bing]

The competition is not sitting around which is why I want to see those VA and CMS deals signed by the May 2016 results (originally predicted to be finalized by Aug 2014). Competition is to be expected and it doesn't appear that anyone has come up with a better and cheaper test so far but it certainly increases the risk for us investors.

http://www.arquerdx.com/arquer-diagnostics-announces-clinical-study-for-recurrent-bladder-cancer/#more-487 (http://www.arquerdx.com/arquer-diagnostics-announces-clinical-study-for-recurrent-bladder-cancer/#more-487)

[skid]

skid/Balance.. I would expect nothing less than a Lions Den. As soon as I clicked reply to my second post of ST, I came to the realisation that each and every thing I said would be scrutinised with evidence and rebuttal from others with contrary viewpoints. I can't really refute your points. I'm holding PEB on a lot of faith and patience.

skid... I love your turn of phrase regarding urine and water. What a wordsmith you are. As you've got out of PEB, I take it you hold a portfolio of shares containing the likes of MFT, FPH, AIA, MET, VHP etc. i.e. a selection of the well knowns. You could set me right.

I won't reveal my other holdings at this stage, but I will say PEB has been a bigger emphasis of my share portfolio. I have a property portfolio away from share trading so I'm in no way setting myself up for financial ruin if PEB goes belly up (for whatever reason).

As I only got into PEB myself in 2014, I haven't experienced the major cycle of fluctuations that many of you have followed or experienced from a return perspective (since 2001). I'm willing to slowly build what I have and keep an eye on all the announcements. Its fair to say I'm putting a lot of faith in these guys and hope to see some good things from now to June 2016. Nothing that has happened so far has made me panic and look to sell my shares at a loss. Long game.

On an AC/DC front, apparently they could be heard from Birkenhead on the North Shore. Wow.

Was into NAN-UBI-GBI all OZ but am down to the bare bones at this point--my gut is telling me Id rather miss gains than collect loses in todays market climate-many are doing ok atm thouigh and good on them -most of my assets are property ,like you.

[Minerbarejet]

The competition is not sitting around which is why I want to see those VA and CMS deals signed by the May 2016 results (originally predicted to be finalized by Aug 2014). Competition is to be expected and it doesn't appear that anyone has come up with a better and cheaper test so far but it certainly increases the risk for us investors.

http://www.arquerdx.com/arquer-diagnostics-announces-clinical-study-for-recurrent-bladder-cancer/#more-487 (http://www.arquerdx.com/arquer-diagnostics-announces-clinical-study-for-recurrent-bladder-cancer/#more-487)
Two things that should not be forgotten with PEB.
1. Its stated aim of 100 mil was based on 10% of the market share.
2. The process of gaining CMS and VA approval is the same for the competition.
As DD says its an iterate process that everyone has to go through.
Its like washing something very dirty in a washing machine. Rinse and repeat, slightly better, rinse and repeat, much better, rinse and repeat, getting there. Rinse and repeat. Good job well done.
Here's your licence.:)

[skid]

Another thing to remember---Never underestimate the power of having a strong partner to help push things through and things are not always squeaky clean

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-medicare-self-referral-thrives-on-loophole-1414031401

points to think about

Rather, the spokesman says, urologists are paid bonuses linked to the lab’s overall test revenue, which he says is permitted by the Stark Law exception. QUOTE

The company’s political-action committee has spent nearly $440,000 over the past three election cycles. The family of Daniel Dosoretz, its co-founder and chairman, has made about $200,000 in political donations since 2009. QUOTE

Its called political lobbying--Companies donate to campaigns or Govt. bodies for some sort of ''favor'' in return.

Its a complicated world out there--especially in the states


Some of you may remember the story involving the nice meal and the STING concert.

[Balance]

2. The process of gaining CMS and VA approval is the same for the competition.
As DD says its an iterate process that everyone has to go through.


That's PR-speak of the most cynical category.

Of course an approval process is one which everyone has to go through - that's like saying that passing exams is a process everyone who wants to be a doctor has to go through to start practicing medicine!

Not everyone who sits exams passes - that is a fact. It is a question of whether the individual has what it takes.

Likewise, the process for getting CMS and VA approvals. DD and PEB make it sound like it is a matter of applying and it's simply a question of time, which is an absolute nonsense.

Statements from PEB show that they have been applying for approvals from CMS and VA (& others) since 2013. Using time and others needing to go through the same process are nothing but excuses.

PEB has missed expectations (set by itself) one after another in the approval process, and even in the user programs. Something smells and it sure ain't what's in the test tubes!

[BigBob]

Of course an approval process is one which everyone has to go through - that's like saying that passing exams is a process everyone who wants to be a doctor has to go through to start practicing medicine!

Not everyone who sits exams passes - that is a fact. It is a question of whether the individual has what it takes.

But don't we normally allow the student to complete the exam before deciding whether they pass or fail.... You appear to have decided already that they failed....!!

Maybe we should we let them complete the exam before marking it...?

[Balance]

But don't we normally allow the student to complete the exam before deciding whether they pass or fail.... You appear to have decided already that they failed....!!

Maybe we should we let them complete the exam before marking it...?

I haven't.

On the contrary, PEB is the one who sets the expectations and like a student, is finding passing the exams harder than expected.

It is the one using the excuses of others needing to pass the same exams (correct) and it's a matter of time (wrong).

If you are the father of a child who is struggling to go through exams, would you not ask what's happening if he keeps telling you it's a matter of time?

[BigBob]

I haven't.

On the contrary, PEB is the one who sets the expectations and like a student, is finding passing the exams harder than expected.

Fair enough - but that still doesn't mean they won't pass...


It is the one using the excuses of others needing to pass the same exams (correct) and it's a matter of time (wrong).

I have never seen them using an excuse about others needing to pass - other posters have, but not PEB as far as I am aware... They have talked about it being a matter of time - and from memory they were given a new exam paper about half way through - but never that it is a given and just a matter of time... Again maybe other posters have, but not PEB....


If you are the father of a child who is struggling to go through exams, would you not ask what's happening if he keeps telling you it's a matter of time?

If they actually keep failing and keep having to re-sit yes you would ask them. However, if they are in the middle of an exam you would probably leave them to it... You might ask them at the end how they went, but nobody is really going to know until it has been marked...!

[skid]

To be approved by medicare(to be covered) the test must not only do its job,but it has to be affordable (to medicare)--This may or may not be the case,but its something to consider.
For those that say its cheaper than cytology,I have'nt read one article that says anything is meant to take the place of cytology.

[Balance]

If they actually keep failing and keep having to re-sit yes you would ask them. However, if they are in the middle of an exam you would probably leave them to it... You might ask them at the end how they went, but nobody is really going to know until it has been marked...!

You join a discussion and come in with an assertion that I have failed them even when the answers have not been marked.

PEB has definitely used the time factor (it's getting close, see?) as an excuse if you care to read through their announcements. That being the case, it is a fair assumption PEB either has not prepared well for the exams, does not understand the process and/or has not answered the questions well enough to pass on their own time expectations.

So what is it?

One thing about PEB that I observe - very good at using huge figures (millions and tens of thousands) but when it comes to measuring their performance against those huge figures they freely use, they are deafeningly silent. Strange that.

[trader_jackson]

You join a discussion and come in with an assertion that I have failed them even when the answers have not been marked.

PEB has definitely used the time factor (it's getting close, see?) as an excuse if you care to read through their announcements. That being the case, it is a fair assumption PEB either has not prepared well for the exams, does not understand the process and/or has not answered the questions well enough to pass on their own time expectations.

So what is it?

One thing about PEB that I observe - very good at using huge figures (millions and tens of thousands) but when it comes to measuring their performance against those huge figures they freely use, they are deafeningly silent. Strange that.

They are probably worried that the FMA will come in and fine them again if they get too excited... its all very well talking about potential, but to make assertions as to the exact numbers you have done and expect to do, and then getting it wrong (as a result of, for example, if VA being signed up next week) could be lethal.

PEB probably just want to get certain thing sorted/signed up before going into extreme details.

I would rather PEB take a couple years longer than expected if it means getting it done right (don't want to rush throgh something, then getting another 2 or 3 years down the track only to realise something wasn't done right...)

PS: nice to see some other people coming into the forum with more optimistic (realistic?) views of PEB, good change to the usual 90% pessimistic views being thrown at it every trading day.

[Balance]

They are probably worried that the FMA will come in and fine them again if they get too excited... its all very well talking about potential, but to make assertions as to the exact numbers you have done and expect to do, and then getting it wrong (as a result of, for example, if VA being signed up next week) could be lethal.



Too late for that. They have been talking millions and tens of thousands from day 1, and still do.

Well, one thing for sure - those of us with experience in the real world of doing business know that the bigger the market, the greater the competition and the more sharp you have to be to succeed.

So far, PEB has been a comedy of promising plenty in the market of millions but delivering bugger all against the big numbers.

[Bing]

We don’t know why the approvals are taking so long. It could very well be that they are just bogged down in the bureaucratic process and in time they will be granted.

If they release the FY16 results end May without having secured at least one contract and sales have not shown a strong increase then I believe they are going to suffer a major loss of confidence (rightly or wrongly) and the share price could drop down into the 20s. This raises a number of concerns for me:
1. Without the VA and CMS approvals PEB is cut out of a major portion of the US market which will make it hard for them to become profitable any time soon
2. If they can’t reach profitability soon they will need to raise more money from shareholders who by now will be very sceptical. Will the institutions decide the risk is too high and bail out?
3. Without money PEB can’t continue to wait patiently for the bureaucratic process to complete.
4. It gives those competitors who already have CMS approval a chance to take away market share.

On the positive side Miner does make a good point that new entrants into the market also have to get approvals as well as complete clinical trials and get those published. PEB has the advantage that they have been in the market a while now and their brand awareness is growing.

Kaiser could be a game changer. If they decide to use Triage then profitability could be achieved very quickly. Also consider that out of all the bladder cancer tests currently in the market they have chosen to trial cxBladder. If PEB pulls it off then it will also be a major boost to their credibility.

I’ve been a shareholder for a long time (before the hype) and I believe in the product but I am getting nervous.

[Minerbarejet]

We don’t know why the approvals are taking so long. It could very well be that they are just bogged down in the bureaucratic process and in time they will be granted.

If they release the FY16 results end May without having secured at least one contract and sales have not shown a strong increase then I believe they are going to suffer a major loss of confidence (rightly or wrongly) and the share price could drop down into the 20s. This raises a number of concerns for me:
1. Without the VA and CMS approvals PEB is cut out of a major portion of the US market which will make it hard for them to become profitable any time soon
2. If they can’t reach profitability soon they will need to raise more money from shareholders who by now will be very sceptical. Will the institutions decide the risk is too high and bail out?
3. Without money PEB can’t continue to wait patiently for the bureaucratic process to complete.
4. It gives those competitors who already have CMS approval a chance to take away market share.

On the positive side Miner does make a good point that new entrants into the market also have to get approvals as well as complete clinical trials and get those published. PEB has the advantage that they have been in the market a while now and their brand awareness is growing.

Kaiser could be a game changer. If they decide to use Triage then profitability could be achieved very quickly. Also consider that out of all the bladder cancer tests currently in the market they have chosen to trial cxBladder. If PEB pulls it off then it will also be a major boost to their credibility.

I’ve been a shareholder for a long time (before the hype) and I believe in the product but I am getting nervous.
1. Peb is not cutout of the market. We have been informed they are processing Medicare tests.
Medicare and VA account for about 50% of market
The other 50% are mainly the previous 4 major providers signed up.
Given the amount of revenue generated from these its fairly obvious that any CMS sign up will double revenue plus a windfall for tests completed prior.
2. While much remains to be done on getting all the approvals lets not forget that the whole 100mill/10% scenario was based on cxbladder detect only. Since then Triage, plus an identified market in Asia have entered the equation.
3. There is a possible element of reluctance these days on PEB's part to predict when items out of their control will be finalised.
4. The competition will have to provide evidence that its product is better than cxbladder. Given the results so far with cxbladder clinical trials this would indicate a pretty high standard required.
5. PEB will get a market share with their products. How big is the unknown.
I don't get the impression they are sitting around playing tiddley winks waiting for the CMS and VA approvals.:)

[skid]

There are a few posters who (from their posts)are actually in this business,who have a very different opinion.
Whatever they are playing(tiddly winks?),CMS and VA approvals are absolutely necessary for PEB to make it.(everything else is a sideshow)
PEB is a foreign minnow in a very big industry in the USA--You cant assume categorically that they will get a decent share of the market.
but they may---Its a punt

[Leftfield]

Another step……(as planned)

"Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge Limited (NZX: PEB), has today released Cxbladder Monitor, its third new product in a suite of tests for the detection and management of bladder cancer. The test is now available in New Zealand and will be launched in other markets progressively over 2016 and 2017, starting with the USA later in 2016."

[nextbigthing]

Swanny (SW); David Darling (DD);

In Davids office, surrounded by unused kits, being wrapped by the bored receptionist and labelled to various Darlings for Christmas presents.

SW; You still going over that press release?
DD; Yes
SW; How many times have you read it now, just release the damn thing?!
DD; No Swanny, it was exactly that attitude that got us into trouble last time.
SW; Come on DD, that was tens of thousands of tests ago, let it go already!
DD; I've already had to edit your comment about the imminent CMS coverage Swanny, I'm not letting one like that slip past the goalie again.
SW; Stop doodling around, at this rate we'll need another cap raising just for a press release.
DD; Very funny Swanny, too soon.
SW; Just present the bloody thing would ya?
DD; Hematuria Swanny? I have a test for that!
SW; Come on David, we're on the cusp of success, just release the damn thing and let's go have a Christmas drink.
DD; Ok. It is Christmas, that will hopefully reduce the amount of flack we cop on ST for releasing good news.
SW; That's the spirit, there, in that bottle. Let's drink!

[pierre]

Swanny (SW); David Darling (DD);

In Davids office, surrounded by unused kits, being wrapped by the bored receptionist and labelled to various Darlings for Christmas presents.

SW; You still going over that press release?
DD; Yes
SW; How many times have you read it now, just release the damn thing?!
DD; No Swanny, it was exactly that attitude that got us into trouble last time.
SW; Come on DD, that was tens of thousands of tests ago, let it go already!
DD; I've already had to edit your comment about the imminent CMS coverage Swanny, I'm not letting one like that slip past the goalie again.
SW; Stop doodling around, at this rate we'll need another cap raising just for a press release.
DD; Very funny Swanny, too soon.
SW; Just present the bloody thing would ya?
DD; Hematuria Swanny? I have a test for that!
SW; Come on David, we're on the cusp of success, just release the damn thing and let's go have a Christmas drink.
DD; Ok. It is Christmas, that will hopefully reduce the amount of flack we cop on ST for releasing good news.
SW; That's the spirit, there, in that bottle. Let's drink!

I was wondering how long it would take for the first cynical comment to appear on ST after this morning's press release from PEB. Not long at all as it turned out.

Joyeux Noel everyone and may your urine always run clear.
Pierre

[trader_jackson]

I was wondering how long it would take for the first cynical comment to appear on ST after this morning's press release from PEB. Not long at all as it turned out.

Joyeux Noel everyone and may your urine always run clear.
Pierre

Yes not long at all, and in typical ST PEB thread fashion, the biggest post is not in any remote way related to the science, process or the actual business of PEB.

Once again PEB is taking steps in the right direction, and are on the road to success... Q1 (maybe Q2 if more politics get in the way) next year should hopefully see some important announcements/updates on CMS and VA... in fact given its the 24th of December, the biggest shopping day of the year, I'm surprised they are still in the office working hard and releasing new, innovative products!

Maybe we should all make a New Years resolution to start providing valid opinions and ideas on the PEB Thread? Even if we did, lets be honest, we all know it wouldn't last a couple of minutes on here.

[nextbigthing]

Merely some light hearted fun you two :)

Reread this line and rethink what I mean by the post;

DD; Ok. It is Christmas, that will hopefully reduce the amount of flack we cop on ST for releasing good news.

Merry Christmas all

[skid]

Yes not long at all, and in typical ST PEB thread fashion, the biggest post is not in any remote way related to the science, process or the actual business of PEB.

Once again PEB is taking steps in the right direction, and are on the road to success... Q1 (maybe Q2 if more politics get in the way) next year should hopefully see some important announcements/updates on CMS and VA... in fact given its the 24th of December, the biggest shopping day of the year, I'm surprised they are still in the office working hard and releasing new, innovative products!

Maybe we should all make a New Years resolution to start providing valid opinions and ideas on the PEB Thread? Even if we did, lets be honest, we all know it wouldn't last a couple of minutes on here.

How come we never hear the names of the scientists--They seem to be the ones holding up their side of the bargain.
Now its time for management to step up..

I would venture to say that its a valid opinion that the scientists have been coming up with the goods and to date ,well,the management have'nt--maybe 2016 will be a better year for them.

[whatsup]

.50 we ( could ) be on the up & up !

[BlackPeter]

.50 we ( could ) be on the up & up !

it might ... but at this stage it is still an unbroken (and long confirmed) downtrend, limited volumes and no news. Personally I would think this is more an opportunity to cut losses for those who didn't sell out yet.

Discl: sold out some time ago (at a better price than that ...) and don't intend to come back unless they can show at least some real (and sustainable) sales.

Anyway - good luck! I would like to see this company succeed, but I don't know, whether it is a good investment at this stage ...

[When the bass drops]

Our good friend finishes the day up 4% going into the new year. I'm looking forward to bright things in 2016.

Happy New Year everybody. Have a safe and productive holiday period (I have 4 days - back on 5th Jan)

[Minerbarejet]

Our good friend finishes the day up 4% going into the new year. I'm looking forward to bright things in 2016.

Happy New Year everybody. Have a safe and productive holiday period (I have 4 days - back on 5th Jan)yeah and you too mate.
Dont forget that by landing on 52 PEB is up 50% from its recent lows of 35c.
Happy New Year to All
Cheers
Miner:)

[Balance]

Year end window dressing on a grand scale by the institutions stuck with all that lovely underwritten stock at 61 cents.

So :

15% down on their underwritten shares and,

41% down on the 89 cents at beginning of 2015, and

65% down on the $1.47 at beginning of 2014.

NZ market was up 13.5% so under performances was 54.5%.

All in perspective.

Directors and management of PEB need to look closely at how they have mismanaged this company and misspent the tens of millions of new capital entrusted to them (with them contributing nothing in the last capital raising) as 2016 dawns.

Then, PEB may have a good year in 2016 and beyond.

[BlackPeter]

Year end window dressing on a grand scale by the institutions stuck with all that lovely underwritten stock at 61 cents.



Window dressing - possible / likely. Grand scale - not sure. Yesterdays turnover was something like $34k. The days before as well quite modest amounts changing hands.

I guess the next couple of weeks or so will show, whether it was window dressing or new awakened interest in one of our best biotech companies (did I get this right - or are there still others alive?).

[skid]

I was beginning to think someone had put something in the water--optimism was rampant on the NZX and some rubbed off.
Yep,some of those who bought @.35 (if we are going cherry picking)have done well(and deserve to for taking that kind of risk)
If everyone remains optimistic about everything ,it may go farther. Or if it drops to .20,you will only need .10 to get your 50%
For most I would imagine that red arrow is just a bit smaller (breaking even is the big hope for many of them)

Guess the next step is to try to get back to the cap raising price,(bit less than 20%)and not studder as before.--With no news its basically market sentiment (not an easy thing to guess)--(but Im sure we will all try anyway)

[When the bass drops]

I just wondered if the webmaster of www.sharetrader.co.nz (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz) could please fix this thread. There are not 14,134 posts, there are only 14,106. This is doing my head in - not good for my Asperger tendencies.

[Onion]

I just wondered if the webmaster of www.sharetrader.co.nz (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz) could please fix this thread. There are not 14,134 posts, there are only 14,106. This is doing my head in - not good for my Asperger tendencies.

... and I haven't viewed it 2,957,756 times! Some of those times my eyes were shut or I was looking out the window. :sleep:

[Balance]

I just wondered if the webmaster of www.sharetrader.co.nz (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz) could please fix this thread. There are not 14,134 posts, there are only 14,106. This is doing my head in - not good for my Asperger tendencies.

Ah but the 14,106 figure does not include the 11,894 postings deleted by Hancocks and the other cheerleaders.







:D

[skid]

Ah but the 14,106 figure does not include the 11,894 postings deleted by Hancocks and the other cheerleaders.







:D

They are locked away in the vault ,never to be seen again(unless maybe if sp goes up)

anyone want to take a guess whats hiding on page 942-943? :)

[When the bass drops]

Maybe secret Russian & US nuclear codes.. who knows.

[When the bass drops]

Thanks webmaster... no secret posts.

[Balance]

Window dressing - possible / likely. Grand scale - not sure. Yesterdays turnover was something like $34k. The days before as well quite modest amounts changing hands.

I guess the next couple of weeks or so will show, whether it was window dressing or new awakened interest in one of our best biotech companies (did I get this right - or are there still others alive?).

Window dressing well and truly over, except for the attempts at creating the illusion of 1c up on the volume sold price.

Case in point - someone bought up 2340 shares at 44c when the volume sales are at 43c.

[jonu]

Window dressing well and truly over, except for the attempts at creating the illusion of 1c up on the volume sold price.

Case in point - someone bought up 2340 shares at 44c when the volume sales are at 43c.

Oh c'mon Balance....the whole market is being hammered on relatively light volume this morning

[winner69]

Window dressing well and truly over, except for the attempts at creating the illusion of 1c up on the volume sold price.

Case in point - someone bought up 2340 shares at 44c when the volume sales are at 43c.

That's good news for the window dressers - they now have areal excuse to take to their clients

[Balance]

Oh c'mon Balance....the whole market is being hammered on relatively light volume this morning

Not talking about sp down but the window dressings. Notice trades #10 and #13? Why would anyone buy about $1,000 worth of shares at a higher 1c price when the market is selling volume at 1c lower?

Trade No. Time Price Volume Value
13 1:10:46 pm 0.44 2,000 $880
12 12:23:33 pm 0.43 1,140 $490
11 11:12:38 am 0.43 45,579 $19,599
10 11:08:59 am 0.44 2,340 $1,030
9 11:02:41 am 0.43 20,000 $8,600
8 11:02:41 am 0.43 2,660 $1,144
7 10:42:55 am 0.43 15,000 $6,450
6 10:42:44 am 0.43 640 $275
5 10:41:43 am 0.43 49,360 $21,225
4 10:41:43 am 0.43 640 $27

[Balance]

That's good news for the window dressers - they now have areal excuse to take to their clients

Downside of window dressing is that PEB is one of the worse performers (again) so far this year - down 15.4% vs market down 4.3%.

Harder to explain that one as being market driven?

[skid]

Oh c'mon Balance....the whole market is being hammered on relatively light volume this morning

absolutely right Jonu--we should be thinking about the whole market atm ...not individual shares(with a few exceptions--and PEB aint one of them)--We will have to wait as its a holiday Monday in USA,for the Dow anyway.(we'll see what China does in about an hour (approx 230pm)

[Balance]

absolutely right Jonu--we should be thinking about the whole market atm ...not individual shares(with a few exceptions--and PEB aint one of them)--We will have to wait as its a holiday Monday in USA,for the Dow anyway.(we'll see what China does in about an hour (approx 230pm)

Oh - so in a cyclone, think about the cyclone and do not worry which building you are sheltering in?

[skid]

Oh - so in a cyclone, think about the cyclone and do not worry which building you are sheltering in?

If it looks like a cyclone is coming -get the heck out of the way--dont worry about what buildings are there.

But if your going to take your chances,it certainly would be best to choose one made of cement rather than one potentially reinforced with straw... Regardless of what they are doing behind the scenes in terms of PEB..the market is calling the shots atm...

I dont believe companies like PEB are the place to be atm--but the window dressing (whether true or not ,is a sideshow atm) IMO

Lets see what the markets do ,and what PEB does,and it should be clearer,one way or the other.

[When the bass drops]

Or you could approach it in a way where we know the cyclones are coming, batten down the hatches, sure, but if your underlying belief that PEB will eventually succeed still remains, then hang onto your holding (or gain one) and take a longer term hold approach. As with any of those holdings like BLIS, RAK, WDT etc.

Yep,, it appears the market is calling the shots at the moment to explain the SP movement, more so than what PEB may or may not be doing.

"I dont believe companies like PEB are the place to be atm" .... do you only gain exposure to a share as soon as it starts going up again? If the share price were to reach 80c by April, for example, would you only go into it then? When is PEB the place to be?

It is all dependent upon your investing time frame; if you go into PEB, you've got to be prepared for a longer term hold (maybe 3-5) years... If you want to be in and out of PEB within a 12 month period, then PEB is definitely not for you. It could be interpreted as a bit silly, as you could experience a large realised loss with this approach. If you're taking a 3-5 year view, then it certainly won't hurt adding a small/medium exposure to shares like PEB, you're likely to experience paper movement but no realised loss if you're willing to hold your exposure for 3-5 years. Ofcourse, I'm making the assumption the company reaches or gets close to its $100m target sales some time in that 3-5 years. I don't think you can flat out say that PEB is not the place to be ATM, but I understand and respect the views of those who hold that belief.

[Baa_Baa]

@Bassman people are in and out of this stock on a daily basis, it's only good for trading. Some people are super clever about buying a few pips lower and selling a few pips higher, they make more money than any long term shareholder has, because they have the skills to be nimble.

Disc, that's not me I'm referring to, which is why I treat it like the mutt it is and stay well away!

[skid]

Or you could approach it in a way where we know the cyclones are coming, batten down the hatches, sure, but if your underlying belief that PEB will eventually succeed still remains, then hang onto your holding (or gain one) and take a longer term hold approach. As with any of those holdings like BLIS, RAK, WDT etc.

Yep,, it appears the market is calling the shots at the moment to explain the SP movement, more so than what PEB may or may not be doing.

"I dont believe companies like PEB are the place to be atm" .... do you only gain exposure to a share as soon as it starts going up again? If the share price were to reach 80c by April, for example, would you only go into it then? When is PEB the place to be?

It is all dependent upon your investing time frame; if you go into PEB, you've got to be prepared for a longer term hold (maybe 3-5) years... If you want to be in and out of PEB within a 12 month period, then PEB is definitely not for you. It could be interpreted as a bit silly, as you could experience a large realised loss with this approach. If you're taking a 3-5 year view, then it certainly won't hurt adding a small/medium exposure to shares like PEB, you're likely to experience paper movement but no realised loss if you're willing to hold your exposure for 3-5 years. Ofcourse, I'm making the assumption the company reaches or gets close to its $100m target sales some time in that 3-5 years. I don't think you can flat out say that PEB is not the place to be ATM, but I understand and respect the views of those who hold that belief.

The reason I say PEB is not the place to be atm is simply because it is a spec stock(with no guarantee of success) in a general market that is looking shaky at this stage in time--It may come right but its looking potentially dangerous right now.
So IMO,you want bricks and mortar shares that are safer rather than riskier growth shares.
In reference to you entry query,yes ,I would wait until the SP increases which means that you lose out on early losses, but there is most likely better reasons why it will actually succeed as a business,in other words the ''growth'' is more assured--then take advantage (hopefully) on further growth.
There is an underlying perception among many that if you dont get in now, you will miss out,but of course ,thats not true--there will always be shares on offer-you just pay more(call it insurance against failure)
Meanwhile ,if your mad keen,it seems to me a bit silly to buy when markets are unstable (right now we just dont know what China and oil are doing and the effects that will have)---(having said that Shanghai is in the green today (but only just) (Hong Kong down over 1% though) the dust needs to settle.
Sometimes time can be your enemy rather than your friend (investing 3-5 yrs) More spec companies have died a slow death than have been a raging success.

[trader_jackson]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11576839

Nice article, what I did find interesting was the comment "While the initial plan was for the firm to rely on strategic partners for the commercialisation and marketing of its products, it has so far developed and taken three commercial products into the market itself."

PEB has received alot of criticism for not partnering up, but clearly the company believe they can do it better themselves... time will tell if this is true or not

Pacific Edge has lots of cash (3-4 years worth), Pacific Edge's technology is proven, Pacific Edge has some of the best people in the business on board, Pacific Edge is like to have some 'gaming changing' announcements this year (hopefully for the better)

[Leftfield]

Thanks for sharing TJ. Could be a good year for PEB which will be much needed after looking at the doom and gloom in the overseas markets today!

[Balance]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11576839

Nice article, what I did find interesting was the comment "While the initial plan was for the firm to rely on strategic partners for the commercialisation and marketing of its products, it has so far developed and taken three commercial products into the market itself."

PEB has received alot of criticism for not partnering up, but clearly the company believe they can do it better themselves... time will tell if this is true or not

Pacific Edge has lots of cash (3-4 years worth), Pacific Edge's technology is proven, Pacific Edge has some of the best people in the business on board, Pacific Edge is like to have some 'gaming changing' announcements this year (hopefully for the better)

PEB has shown it cannot get the right partners or the partners cannot see the potential in the products - that's why Oz, Spain and the EU partnerships have gone nowhere. Anyone ever heard from the partners for their view why CxBladder went nowhere with them? Otherwise, it is just a one sided spin from PEB. Especially when they have gotten nowhere fast after doing it themselves in NZ for the last 3 years.

Lots of cash is a moot point as this is the company which boasted the 'last' capital raising in Dec 2013 will take the company to profitability. Less than 1.5 years later, the company was back for more funds from shareholders. Most small shareholders (but especially the directors) saw the danger signs and gave their 'entitlements' to the 'lucky' underwriters.

Technology is proven but bugger all sales? What is happening? Why are other companies still developing tests in competition with PEB?

[kiwidollabill]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11576839

Nice article, what I did find interesting was the comment "While the initial plan was for the firm to rely on strategic partners for the commercialisation and marketing of its products, it has so far developed and taken three commercial products into the market itself."

PEB has received alot of criticism for not partnering up, but clearly the company believe they can do it better themselves... time will tell if this is true or not

Pacific Edge has lots of cash (3-4 years worth), Pacific Edge's technology is proven, Pacific Edge has some of the best people in the business on board, Pacific Edge is like to have some 'gaming changing' announcements this year (hopefully for the better)

I think there are a few examples (i.e. Spain, Australia) where their commercial partners have failed to deliver on the hype. Risky strategy to rely on others to sell your product, particuarly when great claims are made around uptake and growth.

[skid]

it is my belief that if they could have gotten a high profile partner in the States,they would have taken it (or should have)--IMO its much better to have a little less for each of many tests sold,than all the money for far less sales.

No one can say for sure,but I would venture to say that being affiliated with say,Johnson and Johnson would have even gotten their Kaiser tests through faster..-they need clout.

In the meantime,with the markets turning ugly,how many are going to stay with spec stocks--Many are surely going into asset protection mode--Even stocks on a roll cannot escape forever,much less those requiring more and more faith.

Even if PEB made a conscious decision to go it alone,its performance certainly does not inspire that it was the right decision.

Most of the long term ''Gurus'' have battened down the hatches (they have been there before)---If your keen to stay in the general market it would be beneficial to learn how to operate in a bear market as a backup.

[Balance]

Most of the long term ''Gurus'' have battened down the hatches (they have been there before)---If your keen to stay in the general market it would be beneficial to learn how to operate in a bear market as a backup.

Haha - gurus are but a bunch of scared investors who value their sanity more than anything else.

There are going to be some excellent opportunities out there soon with beaten up or oversold stocks. Stocks which are going to do well out of the huge economic shifts happening out there.

Case in point - oil price drop will pump US$250 billion of savings and/or increased consumer spending power in China and India alone. Expect more China and Indian tourists as an example. Airlines, tourism sector and the hospitality industries catering to the middle class are going to boom this year.

On the downside, companies servicing the oil sector and the previously spend like crazy oil wealth countries of the Middle East are going to have a very very tough year indeed.

The economic shifts mean risk avoidance so PEB will not get any additional funding this year or next, that's for sure. The clock is ticking on this company where the directors talk the talk but do not walk the walk.

[skid]

There are certainly going to be oversold stocks at some point--deciding when is a bit more tricky.
Airline and tourism are doing well atm but they are not foolproof--travel will be affected if things carry on,on a downward spiral--Alot of those middle class Chinese i talked to last winter said they had friends who have been fleeced by the sharemarket--IMO oil is no match for an ugly share market/economy (if it gets to that)....but of course if your good enough..go for it. (so far ,so good on air and tourism)

[Balance]

There are certainly going to be oversold stocks at some point--deciding when is a bit more tricky.
Airline and tourism are doing well atm but they are not foolproof--travel will be affected if things carry on,on a downward spiral--Alot of those middle class Chinese i talked to last winter said they had friends who have been fleeced by the sharemarket--IMO oil is no match for an ugly share market/economy (if it gets to that)....but of course if your good enough..go for it. (so far ,so good on air and tourism)

Difference and big big difference is that the vast majority of the Chinese played the market with savings, not using debt and mortgages as most Westerners like to do.

The Asian financial crisis showed how Asians are able to knuckle down and recover reasonably quickly. Compare to the Greeks, Spanish etc who are still moaning about how little they are receiving from the EU to bail them out 7 years later!

[winner69]

There's more to being a progressive leader than untucking your shirt. You've got to deliver the profits as well.

(Just a quote I came across)

[skid]

Difference and big big difference is that the vast majority of the Chinese played the market with savings, not using debt and mortgages as most Westerners like to do.

The Asian financial crisis showed how Asians are able to knuckle down and recover reasonably quickly. Compare to the Greeks, Spanish etc who are still moaning about how little they are receiving from the EU to bail them out 7 years later!

That was certainly the case with China--but many of the others are still among the cheapest to travel to--that should tell you something.
They certainly are not afraid to 'knuckle down'' but sometimes thats not enough to prosper if you have been ''done over'' by the world bank.
In Thailand they only avoided total devastation because the Monks asked the people to bring in their Gold to save the country,and it kept them from going over the cliff.
and this all happened because of the ''big money from the US'' speculating while Clinton was to busy with the Monica Lewenski affair to control them--They were the Friedman gang.----This ultimately led to China saying never again,and going over to an export economy and keeping a hefty supply of US dollars--the rest is history in terms of the result.

We'd better get back on topic before we get complaints....so whats going on with PEB lately....well....Patience

(all the spectators have gone over to the AIR and ATM thread?)

[When the bass drops]

Well its been just over a month since the last major announcement from the company, so I'm guessing that any time in the next few weeks they will release something else.


When the bass drops recommends these songs:
TNGHT - Higher Ground
Unison - Aperture
Disclosure feat. Miguel - Good intentions
Disclosure feat. Sam Smith - Omen

[Carpenterjoe]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0ahUKEwiSoq3Kq9zKAhUlHKYKHTKaDekQFghOMAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bcbsal.org%2Fproviders%2Fpol icies%2Ffinal%2F433.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFuaU4qe1v9JmAqdcXXzDgNHoaZcA&sig2=D17UCaFNrDwsQhJqWcGJvQ&bvm=bv.113034660,bs.1,d.dGo

Haven't had a chance to read over it fully, gives a little indication on the market.

[Snow Leopard]

...
Haven't had a chance to read over it fully, gives a little indication on the market.

Reading the very last indicates that CxBladder has appeared on their radar, "can we use CxBladder?" has become a frequently asked question, so they have specifically excluded it from their policy.

They cite the AHRQ review as part of the evidence against it and also I notice a little scorn poured on a PEB funded statistically study.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Bing]

https://nhc.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/t3_detect.pdf

conclusion:
"Biomarker use in the primary care setting presents an
opportunity to significantly change the diagnostic model for bladder cancer. However the
performance of the available tests needs to be demonstrated in the appropriate setting to give
support to the potential."

It appears that a lot more published studies are needed. May explain why CMS and VA approvals are taking so long.

[Bing]

Hopefully this will benefit PEB
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11583311

[Baa_Baa]

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0ahUKEwiSoq3Kq9zKAhUlHKYKHTKaDekQFghOMAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bcbsal.org%2Fproviders%2Fpol icies%2Ffinal%2F433.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFuaU4qe1v9JmAqdcXXzDgNHoaZcA&sig2=D17UCaFNrDwsQhJqWcGJvQ&bvm=bv.113034660,bs.1,d.dGo

Haven't had a chance to read over it fully, gives a little indication on the market.

Snippets: Best to read the whole report so that the following are taken in context:

"The use of all other bladder cancer tumor markers (including but not limited to, CertNDx, Cxbladder) do not meet Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama’s medical criteria for coverage and is considered investigational in the diagnosis, monitoring, or screening for bladder cancer.

"[...] However, the novel methodology and the absence of reported confidence intervals for the rankings limit any conclusions about the relative diagnostic accuracy of Cxbladder.

"[Higher specificity than cytology but ...] Few studies were available and they did not provide sufficient evidence that the diagnostic accuracy of these markers is sufficiently high to replace cytology"

Can anyone provide a translation into investor language?

[kiwidollabill]

Snippets: Best to read the whole report so that the following are taken in context:

"The use of all other bladder cancer tumor markers (including but not limited to, CertNDx, Cxbladder) do not meet Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama’s medical criteria for coverage and is considered investigational in the diagnosis, monitoring, or screening for bladder cancer.

"[...] However, the novel methodology and the absence of reported confidence intervals for the rankings limit any conclusions about the relative diagnostic accuracy of Cxbladder.

"[Higher specificity than cytology but ...] Few studies were available and they did not provide sufficient evidence that the diagnostic accuracy of these markers is sufficiently high to replace cytology"

Can anyone provide a translation into investor language?

Means that CXbladder sounds like it might be a good thing, but there is insufficient independent studies available to prove it's effectiveness and use routinely in a patient diagnosis setting.
Biomarkers provide additional diagnostic information but not enough to replace cytology.

Or have I just replaced tech speak with more tech speak?

[Yeshiva]

Snippets: Best to read the whole report so that the following are taken in context:

"The use of all other bladder cancer tumor markers (including but not limited to, CertNDx, Cxbladder) do not meet Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama’s medical criteria for coverage and is considered investigational in the diagnosis, monitoring, or screening for bladder cancer.

"[...] However, the novel methodology and the absence of reported confidence intervals for the rankings limit any conclusions about the relative diagnostic accuracy of Cxbladder.

"[Higher specificity than cytology but ...] Few studies were available and they did not provide sufficient evidence that the diagnostic accuracy of these markers is sufficiently high to replace cytology"

Can anyone provide a translation into investor language?

investor language is "it might be ok but we are not convinced and so we are not buying".

God help this company if Kaiser Permanente release a similar report.

[Balance]

investor language is "it might be ok but we are not convinced and so we are not buying".

God help this company if Kaiser Permanente release a similar report.

If CxBladder is the leading industry test - this will not be happening : http://www.labmate-online.com/news/news-and-views/5/arquer_diagnostics/study_could_lead_to_approval_of_test_for_bladder_c ancer/37437/

Capital raising on the cards next year, I would say.

If they do, sp will be 10c by then.

[kiwidollabill]

And they're bring in the big guns...

https://nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/277598

[Carpenterjoe]

If CxBladder is the leading industry test - this will not be happening : http://www.labmate-online.com/news/news-and-views/5/arquer_diagnostics/study_could_lead_to_approval_of_test_for_bladder_c ancer/37437/

Capital raising on the cards next year, I would say.

If they do, sp will be 10c by then.

No doubt another capital raising is on the cards, cash burn is wining the race.

Question is, will the new director bring in international funds or has he another use (possible sell off).

Its just a wait and see game and enjoy the ride.

[kiwidollabill]

No doubt another capital raising is on the cards, cash burn is wining the race.

Question is, will the new director bring in international funds or has he another use (possible sell off).

Its just a wait and see game and enjoy the ride.

You'd hope he is worth something tangible considering he's paid more than the Chairman

[trader_jackson]

Not sure how we all jumped to having a capital raising when its pretty obvious they have 2-3 years of cash on hand, and (as I have also shown before) revenues are increasing proportionately more than expenses and several analysts and users on here expect this to easily last them to cash flow positive... but anyway, nice little announcement before the end of the day... https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/277728

Sounds like a very great company that they have partnered with, and good to see they have taken there time to get a great company on board and vice versa (although I realise they have partnered with the Australian division, I do note they have 500-1000 employees world wide)

[kiwidollabill]

^Tolmar are in an entirely different part of the value chain (pharmacuticals c.f. diagnostics).

Cant see how this is a positive, swapping a lame horse for a dead one.

[Balance]

^Tolmar are in an entirely different part of the value chain (pharmacuticals c.f. diagnostics).

Cant see how this is a positive, swapping a lame horse for a dead one.

Haha - you do have a way of taking the wind completely off the sail of the PEB leaky boat.

[Carpenterjoe]

Change is in the air,

Not sure if its good, looks like Oryzondx webpage has had a facelift and they are getting ready for business.

http://www.oryzondx.com/index.html

[Balance]

Not sure how we all jumped to having a capital raising when its pretty obvious they have 2-3 years of cash on hand, and (as I have also shown before) revenues are increasing proportionately more than expenses and several analysts and users on here expect this to easily last them to cash flow positive... but anyway, nice little announcement before the end of the day... https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/277728

Sounds like a very great company that they have partnered with, and good to see they have taken there time to get a great company on board and vice versa (although I realise they have partnered with the Australian division, I do note they have 500-1000 employees world wide)

And more user programs!

Code word for "We are giving away tests as all the other user programs we have done to date have seen bugger all follow through sales."

“Our User Programmes continue to be a critical element in encouraging urologists to trial our products in their clinical settings prior to commercial use. We expect to see an increasing number of User Programmes in Australia going forward as we build our presence and look to boost commercial sales in this market.”

[nextbigthing]

Re David Levisons appointment;

'Prior to this, he was Founder President and CEO of iScribe (sold to AdvancePCS) and President of Oncology Therapeutics Network (sold to Bristol-Myers Squibb)'.

Perhaps new David will suggest a change of tack with the best outcome for PEB...

[skid]

With all these takeovers happening ,thats what I thought when I noticed someone had brushed the dust off the PEB thread...Then I remembered..Oh Yea..all this time they have had no one in OZ...finally they have found someone.

New Guy in the states...you've got a point ,maybe the idea is to find a buyer....what happened to wonder woman?
They have showed they are happy to partner up in OZ---So why not from the beginning in the States?..Well,there are plenty of views on that.

[nextbigthing]

what happened to wonder woman?


Very good question and have been wondering the same thing. Has been very quiet. The silver bullet missed the target so they reloaded the gun with new David. Maybe they need to look at who's aiming and pulling the trigger?

[BigBob]

I thought that Jackie is the CEO of US Ops and new David has been appointed as a board member... Different roles - but why let something that trivial get in the way of another opportunity for a bit of bashing, eh..?

[skid]

OK,fair point BB ..so Jackie has decided ,for some reason they need a bit of help and we now have new David--I guess the big question is why-so maybe 3 scenarios 1- things are hotting uo with lots of new sales and they need help to keep up
2-Things are not happening, and they are trying new blood to hopefully get things going
3-For one reason or another they have decided they are better off putting PEB on the selling block and he has
has some experience at that--sub headings .....A-would it be a bargain basement price or
B-fair price that increases SP

[Balance]

OK,fair point BB ..so Jackie has decided ,for some reason they need a bit of help and we now have new David--I guess the big question is why-so maybe 3 scenarios 1- things are hotting uo with lots of new sales and they need help to keep up
2-Things are not happening, and they are trying new blood to hopefully get things going
3-For one reason or another they have decided they are better off putting PEB on the selling block and he has
has some experience at that--sub headings .....A-would it be a bargain basement price or
B-fair price that increases SP

Based upon a conversation one of my business contacts had with a PEB executive recently, I will venture to say that either the US is firing on all cylinders so PEB now has time to look at other markets or the US has sprung serious leaks and they are desperately looking at new markets.

Take your pick.

You know mine.

PS. One thing for sure - PR spin for PEB is now counter-productive and only one thing is going to change the market perception of this previous darling of the market - results.

[BigBob]

PS. One thing for sure - PR spin for PEB is now counter-productive and only one thing is going to change the market perception of this previous darling of the market - results.

Couldn't agree more - so maybe everyone should take a breather and wait for them to tell us about it, instead of presenting idle speculation as fact to justify the ongoing bashing and baiting....

[skid]

Its been a little more than a breather BB--at some point people can be excused for wondering whats going on with things after waiting ...and waiting... This is a forum where things get discussed,whether they are far fetched or not. Some have even gone so far to have tried to shut down the thread,or create a private mates group where all can celebrate..but it was never going to work....People will always speculate...but your alot closer than before ..theres hardly been a peep from this thread for a while now.They are either waiting or have lost interest.
Best of luck...lets hope the next bit of juicy news is about PEB and not some competitor who has come up with the ultimate solution..while we wait...

[Balance]

Its been a little more than a breather BB--at some point people can be excused for wondering whats going on with things after waiting ...and waiting... This is a forum where things get discussed,whether they are far fetched or not. Some have even gone so far to have tried to shut down the thread,or create a private mates group where all can celebrate..but it was never going to work....People will always speculate...but your alot closer than before ..theres hardly been a peep from this thread for a while now.They are either waiting or have lost interest.
Best of luck...lets hope the next bit of juicy news is about PEB and not some competitor who has come up with the ultimate solution..while we wait...

Mark these words : "either the US is firing on all cylinders so PEB now has time to look at other markets or the US has sprung serious leaks and they are desperately looking at new markets".

3 years ago, PEB was dismissive of approaches from players in some countries as its' stated focus was on the US. Today, my perception is that PEB is singing a different tune.

[When the bass drops]

I doubt there will be any more rights issues considering the amount of cash they raised from the last one.

I also don't think there is a plan to sell PEB to a larger company any time soon. Maybe in 5 years time would be a better time to do it.

I do feel that there was always a somewhat political risk to PEB success, in that in the last 2-3 years perhaps all the important US medical groups and gatekeepers that PEB has encountered or had to deal with along their commercialisation journey have gradually hiked an already high barrier to entry, maybe a protectionist ploy to protect the success prospects and bottom lines of local talent or existing players. Perhaps I'm hinting at minor conspiracy theory - there is always lots of unseen stuff going on in the background though.

Balance/skid, I concede that if the reality is the US has sprung serious leaks, almost a tap gushing from an every increasing number of holes from the hull, and they are looking for a new market, this will be a major disaster for PEB as their overall success is dependent upon US success - both anecdotally and from the horses mouth. There was always a risk of this, which I bought into when I purchased my shares. I give you permission to tell me 'I told you so' if this transpires.

There is always a degree of political and slow-walking nonsense that needs to be dealt with, but my continual hope is PEB will prove successful in the next 3-5 years, as they have a very good suite of tests (which eventually a good chunk of urologists will take note of) - and I'll hold to that unless something materially adverse changes (like the US prospects slamming shut on the faces of DD and the sales staff in one cruel swoop).

[trader_jackson]

I do find it interesting how many people keep saying "the US is doing badly so they need to search for more markets" (or something to this affect)... mean while in PEB's reasonably recent interim half year report I am not sure how many times phases along the lines of 'the US is still our primary focus' (hundreds maybe?)...

Yet because a partner with Australia has suddenly appeared (although this was no surprise to many, such as myself) everyone thinks the US must be doing badly and PEB are somehow desperate for markets?? PEB have been in Australia for ages? Maybe it was PEB in Australia that wasn't going to well (not that this is much of a focus anyway) and hence they partnered up/switched to a much larger/better company...

I do agree there is a degree of 'bureaucracy' involved which has caught everyone off guard, including PEB, but a high profile US director should help smooth and further speed up the final stages that I like to think PEB are in.

Hint: Maybe things have been quiet on the news front because of the festive holidays? As much as I am sure Mr Darling would want to work on Christmas Day, being CEO of what is one of New Zealand's most innovative companies, even he deserves a break to enjoy the deck he built 2 or so years ago

[kiwidollabill]

I saw DD when I was out at lunch the other day.... Couldn't catch a smile....

[Balance]

Yet because a partner with Australia has suddenly appeared (although this was no surprise to many, such as myself) everyone thinks the US must be doing badly and PEB are somehow desperate for markets?? PEB have been in Australia for ages? Maybe it was PEB in Australia that wasn't going to well (not that this is much of a focus anyway) and hence they partnered up/switched to a much larger/better

Nothing to do with Oz. Unlike some on this thread, I do not rely on PEB only for information.

There are outsiders who interact with PEB ... They provide valuable insight into what and how PEB is doing.

[skid]

I doubt there will be any more rights issues considering the amount of cash they raised from the last one.

I also don't think there is a plan to sell PEB to a larger company any time soon. Maybe in 5 years time would be a better time to do it.

I do feel that there was always a somewhat political risk to PEB success, in that in the last 2-3 years perhaps all the important US medical groups and gatekeepers that PEB has encountered or had to deal with along their commercialisation journey have gradually hiked an already high barrier to entry, maybe a protectionist ploy to protect the success prospects and bottom lines of local talent or existing players. Perhaps I'm hinting at minor conspiracy theory - there is always lots of unseen stuff going on in the background though.

Balance/skid, I concede that if the reality is the US has sprung serious leaks, almost a tap gushing from an every increasing number of holes from the hull, and they are looking for a new market, this will be a major disaster for PEB as their overall success is dependent upon US success - both anecdotally and from the horses mouth. There was always a risk of this, which I bought into when I purchased my shares. I give you permission to tell me 'I told you so' if this transpires.

There is always a degree of political and slow-walking nonsense that needs to be dealt with, but my continual hope is PEB will prove successful in the next 3-5 years, as they have a very good suite of tests (which eventually a good chunk of urologists will take note of) - and I'll hold to that unless something materially adverse changes (like the US prospects slamming shut on the faces of DD and the sales staff in one cruel swoop).

I would never say ''I told you so''--but to those who were thinking of jumping in big time and maybe reconsidered until PEB have proven themselves I would be glad I commented.

[skid]

I do find it interesting how many people keep saying "the US is doing badly so they need to search for more markets" (or something to this affect)... mean while in PEB's reasonably recent interim half year report I am not sure how many times phases along the lines of 'the US is still our primary focus' (hundreds maybe?)...

Yet because a partner with Australia has suddenly appeared (although this was no surprise to many, such as myself) everyone thinks the US must be doing badly and PEB are somehow desperate for markets?? PEB have been in Australia for ages? Maybe it was PEB in Australia that wasn't going to well (not that this is much of a focus anyway) and hence they partnered up/switched to a much larger/better company...

I do agree there is a degree of 'bureaucracy' involved which has caught everyone off guard, including PEB, but a high profile US director should help smooth and further speed up the final stages that I like to think PEB are in.

Hint: Maybe things have been quiet on the news front because of the festive holidays? As much as I am sure Mr Darling would want to work on Christmas Day, being CEO of what is one of New Zealand's most innovative companies, even he deserves a break to enjoy the deck he built 2 or so years ago

The point about Australia was that after ditching their last group because of not much progress--they have taken a pretty long time to come up with someone else and they are not what would be considered one of the front runners.

The States--We are ''in the bubble'' To us ,its ''when is this major innovative company going to burst into the US market?''
to them--''Its just another tiny company trying for a slice,with technology that is questioned by some of the big guns (AUA)
.....''No Hurry on that one Chuck'' "We're not even sure we are going to go with them and meanwhile they are giving us free tests''
''hey did you see this one-we get a free trip to Vegas and access to a discount on all their other products as well.which we need anyway.''

[When the bass drops]

ODT article of the same announcement from a few days back; to be fair it would be nice if PEB would share a bit more about the nature of the commercial relationship with Tolmar, although I suppose there is still lots to work out. Australia very small fry in comparison to the US strategy, latter of which I hope we should hear good news about within 6 months.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/373889/pacific-edge-partners-market-test

[Minerbarejet]

A quick look at Tolmar in the US doing the same processes with Eligard as Tolmar Australia may possibly lead one to suspect they are connected. In which case any results in Australia with cxbladder are liable to filter through to the US and down to the Argentinian private holders.

[skid]

Yes ,its certainly not very obvious that the two Tolmars(OZ-USA) are connected--(you would think ,with the same name ,they would be)

If they are ,one would think they (peb) would want to partner up with the USA Tolmar

There is however no mention on their website about any involvement with the USA Tolmar or any of their partners

Why does it all always have to be such a mystery?

[RGR367]

Yes ,its certainly not very obvious that the two Tolmars(OZ-USA) are connected--(you would think ,with the same name ,they would be)

If they are ,one would think they (peb) would want to partner up with the USA Tolmar

There is however no mention on their website about any involvement with the USA Tolmar or any of their partners

Why does it all always have to be such a mystery?

NZSA is requesting proxy votes for PEB. You may want to give them your questions too.

disc: not a holder

[Balance]

NZSA is requesting proxy votes for PEB. You may want to give them your questions too.

disc: not a holder

Proxy votes for what? AGM is a long way away. In any case, it is going to be a long long wait before PEB announces its next results - May 2016.

Meanwhile, there is deafening silence on how the user programs are going and hearing through the grapevine, PEB is trying to surface interested parties to go into some other countries. Thing is this - PEB could have had the pick of interested partners 3 years ago when it launched CxBladder into the market, such was the interest and the excitement. The company instead opt to go alone and 3 years later, after burning up resources and bridges, is revisiting old grounds.

Time and industry developments (including new products and discoveries) wait for no-one and the medical world certainly has not stood still while PEB runs around offering free trials, camouflaged as user programs, and getting nowhere.

Sales of $1.8m in half year and receivables increased by $1.6m - who is kidding who? What kind of company makes sales based upon almost infinite credit terms!!!!!

[Leftfield]

Proxy votes for what? AGM is a long way away. In any case, it is going to be a long long wait before PEB announces its next results - May 2016.

Time and industry developments (including new products and discoveries) wait for no-one and the medical world certainly has not stood still while PEB runs around offering free trials, camouflaged as user programs, and getting nowhere.

Sales of $1.8m in half year and receivables increased by $1.6m - who is kidding who? What kind of company makes sales based upon almost infinite credit terms!!!!!

Hey Balance, if you are so continually 'down' on this company, would you care to share why you picked it in the 2016 Stock Picking comp?

[Minerbarejet]

Hey Balance, if you are so continually 'down' on this company, would you care to share why you picked it in the 2016 Stock Picking comp?Have a look at the rest of his picks, should become obvious. :)
Bowwowwowwow. Woof

[BlackPeter]

Proxy votes for what? AGM is a long way away. In any case, it is going to be a long long wait before PEB announces its next results - May 2016.

Meanwhile, there is deafening silence on how the user programs are going and hearing through the grapevine, PEB is trying to surface interested parties to go into some other countries. Thing is this - PEB could have had the pick of interested partners 3 years ago when it launched CxBladder into the market, such was the interest and the excitement. The company instead opt to go alone and 3 years later, after burning up resources and bridges, is revisiting old grounds.

Time and industry developments (including new products and discoveries) wait for no-one and the medical world certainly has not stood still while PEB runs around offering free trials, camouflaged as user programs, and getting nowhere.

Sales of $1.8m in half year and receivables increased by $1.6m - who is kidding who? What kind of company makes sales based upon almost infinite credit terms!!!!!

Balance, they ask for a proxy for the special general meeting on Feb 26th, where the board requests approval for an increase of the directors fee pool:

http://www.nzshareholders.co.nz/pdf/correspondence/pacific-edge-01-pdf.pdf

Remember - US boyz are a bit more expensive - they can't afford to pay him out of the existing fee pool!

[Balance]

Hey Balance, if you are so continually 'down' on this company, would you care to share why you picked it in the 2016 Stock Picking comp?

Buggerisation factor in the competition by person(s) unknown.

:D

PS. Good one!

[Balance]

Balance, they ask for a proxy for the special general meeting on Feb 26th, where the board requests approval for an increase of the directors fee pool:

http://www.nzshareholders.co.nz/pdf/correspondence/pacific-edge-01-pdf.pdf

Remember - US boyz are a bit more expensive - they can't afford to pay him out of the existing fee pool!

Thanks, BP. Fair enough actually.

Good opportunity indeed then to ask the good folks there what happened with all the wonderful Harvard connection, Jackie Walker etc etc etc.

[skid]

Have a look at the rest of his picks, should become obvious. :)
Bowwowwowwow. Woof

steady on there --PEB and CDY are not exactly glowing---and lets not forget''you stick with NAN and Ill stick with PEB''
Disc-not holding NAN anymore(sold to bank profits) as with PEB.(when it dropped to 86 from around 90)

[When the bass drops]

I guess, when it comes down to it, its a little bit frustrating that politics and the resistance to change go head-to-head with often superior, innovative and cheaper solutions, and the politics wins in the end. Which almost always means no improvement, and the world is all the poorer.

The world of work in less than 50 words.

[Balance]

I guess, when it comes down to it, its a little bit frustrating that politics and the resistance to change go head-to-head with often superior, innovative and cheaper solutions, and the politics wins in the end. Which almost always means no improvement, and the world is all the poorer.

The world of work in less than 50 words.

Not right - the world would be still in the stone age if your world of work is true.

**** Never fall in love with a stock and lose objectivity - that's what some posters here have imo fallen into. ****

"Warren Buffett once said, "You may have all these feelings about a stock, but a stock doesn't know you own it. It doesn't care what you paid for it."

Have a read of this company in the same space which I am told is likely to IPO this year - different strategy from PEB and will provide a comparison point when it is listed.

http://www.siennadiagnostics.com.au/ - tight costs control, genuine JVs with reputable and established companies with distribution and revenues of A$300,000 in first 6 months of commercialization.

[When the bass drops]

Balance, Interesting technology for sure. The supplement company Isagenix, and others similar to it, is heavily involved in the sale and distribution of telomere products. Perceived as the next best thing in anti-ageing remedies.

Any indication what the Sienna code will be on the ASX?

[Balance]

Balance, Interesting technology for sure. The supplement company Isagenix, and others similar to it, is heavily involved in the sale and distribution of telomere products. Perceived as the next best thing in anti-ageing remedies.

Any indication what the Sienna code will be on the ASX?

No indication yet as they are still going through the process.

[Balance]

The point about Australia was that after ditching their last group because of not much progress--they have taken a pretty long time to come up with someone else and they are not what would be considered one of the front runners.



PEB's negotiation skills are either non-existent or they are so far on the back foot with the lack of desirability of CXBladder, they are getting walked all over.

Anyone who has ever renegotiated (or observed the renegotiation of) a distribution contract knows that you replace an existing non-performing distributor by initiating discussions well ahead of time! The idea is to make the announcement of termination of the existing distribution at the same time as appointment of the new one.

Timeline of the Healthscope contract :


27 Mar 2012 - Agreement signed
23 Oct 2015 - Termination of agreement
16 Feb 2016 - New agreement with new distributor

So it took PEB 2.5 years to figure out Healthscope was not doing the job and after termination, another 4 months to find a new distributor.

Add to that the debacle with Spain and the EU and what it tells us is that it must surely be time for new management in this company before they run out of cash.

[Balance]

History will record PEB as a company which is very good at signing up agreements, make wildly positive comments about how big the markets (and so sales) are for its products and .... bugger all.

Have a look at this announcement last year : "PEB: Tan Tock Seng Hospital User Program for Cxbladder" in June 2015.

You know it did not even rate a mention by Tan Tock Seng Hospital?

[trader_jackson]

History will record PEB as a company which is very good at signing up agreements, make wildly positive comments about how big the markets (and so sales) are for its products and .... bugger all.

Have a look at this announcement last year : "PEB: Tan Tock Seng Hospital User Program for Cxbladder" in June 2015.

You know it did not even rate a mention by Tan Tock Seng Hospital?

You also know when PEB announced it, it was marked as GENERAL, NOT PRICE SENSITIVE?

Like the change in Australian partnership, it wasn't meant to be big news at all, just complying with disclosure rules... I would have been surprised if Tan Tock Seng Hospital had actually mentioned something, then you would know it is at least 'reasonably sized' news (considering they are such a big hospital, and what PEB is doing with them is very small by there standards, and even minor by PEB standards, but future potential is there)

[When the bass drops]

Balance, I understand your sentiment but I don't think history will hold such a dire view towards PEB. I think the reality is that things are happening much slower than anticipated, we can all agree. Unless there has been a falling out between the PEB front office and your Kaisers, CMS, VA etc., I'm confident the company will cut through all the red tape and come out the other side with success. I don't doubt that history will show that PEB were over-ambitious with their timings and that their lead time to success was much longer than expected.


However looking at some of your comments going back in time, where at times you were very upbeat about PEB, I can understand your cynicism and doubt. I respect and understand the views you hold, and others like skids, because you've witnessed a rollercoaster share price. As I've come into PEB quite late in the piece, perhaps my perception is much more upbeat than otherwise.

The 2016 calendar year will be very interesting. I will be interested to read the next Edison and Forsyth Barr updates on this stock.

[Balance]

Balance, I understand your sentiment but I don't think history will hold such a dire view towards PEB. I think the reality is that things are happening much slower than anticipated, we can all agree. Unless there has been a falling out between the PEB front office and your Kaisers, CMS, VA etc., I'm confident the company will cut through all the red tape and come out the other side with success. I don't doubt that history will show that PEB were over-ambitious with their timings and that their lead time to success was much longer than expected.


However looking at some of your comments going back in time, where at times you were very upbeat about PEB, I can understand your cynicism and doubt. I respect and understand the views you hold, and others like skids, because you've witnessed a rollercoaster share price. As I've come into PEB quite late in the piece, perhaps my perception is much more upbeat than otherwise.

The 2016 calendar year will be very interesting. I will be interested to read the next Edison and Forsyth Barr updates on this stock.

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/report/pacific-edge1

You will be a very man following the research advice on PEB by Edison and Forbar!

[When the bass drops]

"You will be a very man"? Very 'foolish' man? Very 'wise' man? Missing word I think. I can take the inference of being foolish, not offended :)

[Balance]

"You will be a very man"? Very 'foolish' man? Very 'wise' man? Missing word I think. I can take the inference of being foolish, not offended :)

Poor man.

As a couple of posters here know (via PM as they were reasonable individuals and were prepared to acknowledge good information when they see it), I bailed out when several pieces of external information reached me that things were not going well at PEB and the company was still preoccupied with gilding the lily.

One piece of information was a visit to the US lab by a broker on his summer holiday.

There is nothing quite like on the ground information. Edison and Forbar simply regurgitate what the company proclaims in a different format.

[When the bass drops]

Appreciate your view on that. I'll rely on progress and time. I'm not privy to the on the ground information but I'll consider myself wise for keeping my ears open to news coming from other areas. I might try getting along to the shareholder meetings down the line.

[skid]

Edison-Forbar---Keep in mind at least one of these is paid by PEB to make their report--I hav'nt looked in depth but for some of the shares I follow these guys have not been doing well in their predictions.
I think alot could be excused for taking this info with a grain of salt.

Also keep in mind that my views do not rule out PEB coming right at some point--My argument is that it is not a smart move to jump in until they start to come up with the goods---The dosh can be used elsewhere or just kept safe.

There is always a tendency to think ''at this point it cant go much lower'' and that may be true ,but it has surprised us a number of times before.

My posts are often interpreted as down ramping the company,but most are in response to a statement made that may entice investors into a risky share without thoroughly looking at all sides.

good luck ,but be careful and remember the golden rule about not being overexposed in todays market.

[Leftfield]

Very underwhelmed by today's announcements and lack of details.

[pierre]

Some positive excerpts from DD's address at today's Special Meeting. Looks like the train is still on the track - maybe not running at top speed, but still heading in the right direction. All is not lost.

"We have now achieved our target of 18 specialist sales people covering 19
sales regions, following a focused recruitment programme over the last ten
months. Their primary role is to build relationships with targeted urologists
and encourage them to trial our product through a User Programme."


"We are also continuing to progress our discussions with the Veteran's
Administration and the Centre for Medicare and Medicaid Services. We need to
follow the regulatory processes to gain access to these organisations, and
this can take time. Pleasingly, we are well down the track and hope to have
approvals in the near future."


"For the Veteran's Administration, we are nearing completion of the process
for registration on the Federal Supply Schedule. Once this happens, we can
then start engaging with their urologists and providing them with access to
our Cxbladder tests. This is a very large target customer currently not
available to us commercially until we have completed the FSS registration.


Rester positif!
Pierre

[winner69]

Massive opportunity, $152 billion, tens of millions - all mentioned

Didn't say it but betcha sales are growing faster than expenses - that's good as well

[pierre]

Massive opportunity, $152 billion, tens of millions - all mentioned

Didn't say it but betcha sales are growing faster than expenses - that's good as well

Yep - hasn't excited the market though. We really need to know the required approvals have been granted before there will be any likelihood of action on the SP.

[Balance]

Yep - hasn't excited the market though. We really need to know the required approvals have been granted before there will be any likelihood of action on the SP.

3 months have passed since their last update to the market and ...... nothing!

Not a single sausage and mention of number of tests sold - the single most important KPI of this company.

The usual waffle about high growth strategy (fast train going backwards), progress going well with negotiations (yup - like with new distributor in Australia), millions of test opportunities (ocean of water but cannot drink) and 3 years after launching in the States, get this ........... still talking about user programs!

Not talking about tens of thousands of tests sales anymore but get this, "primary role is to build relationships with targeted urologists and encourage them to trial our product through a User Programme". So 3 years after launching in the States, the 19 recruited salesmen are working on encouraging urologists to TRIAL the product - NOT selling the product! Biggest giveaway of how far behind sales they are.

The cash burn continues.

[Andrew]

The hype put out by vested interests such as Directors and employees of Pacific Edge should be avoided at all costs. What sort of Chief Executive would you be if you always were negative about the future of the company. I got out of these shares after the news release in November 2015. I made a loss which I am still not happy about.

While I congratulate the researchers and Doctors who devised the tests, bringing them to market profitably is another thing. Unfortunately Doctors get caught up in their professional pride, and pat themselves on the back way too soon. It would have been nice to make a profit before their Directors fees were increased and their rent on their Dunedin offices was increased.

The results in November quoted 238% increase in commercial sales to 1.8mill, total sales increase by 68% to total revenue of 2.69 mill. They should be embarrassed about these results. They however are quite proud of the reserves they have to play with of 32 mill, however these were not gained through good business, but lucky placements and issues which have watered down the share numbers.

Now they are not the only company that has bladder tests out there, their opinion is that it is more accurate than any others out there. I wonder. Just recently a friend of mine had his bladder tested by the old painful method. You would think that as a NZ company their test would have been in use here everywhere for some time.

I believe with their sales and associated agencies structure out there, that they will need quite an upturn of sales at their margin to bring in any profit in the near future. Meanwhile other companies are also in the act of obtaining diagnostic tests which the uptake will be greater on the back of existing agencies.

They are going to have to increase their sales by some 1200 percent to become profitable. Meanwhile the CEO and Directors keep getting their salaries until the 33 mill reserves are used up. In another 5 or six years they will be ready to move on anyway.

Lastly further research and Development costs which they no doubt are pursuing on other products, and not all of these will be successful at a reasonable cost will take whatever is left of this company. I would suggest this company will not be a worthwhile investment for some 10 years at least at which time the number of share issued out there will mean that an original holding from the IPO would be near worthless.

[winner69]

3 months have passed since their last update to the market and ...... nothing!

Not a single sausage and mention of number of tests sold - the single most important KPI of this company.

The usual waffle about high growth strategy (fast train going backwards), progress going well with negotiations (yup - like with new distributor in Australia), millions of test opportunities (ocean of water but cannot drink) and 3 years after launching in the States, get this ........... still talking about user programs!

Not talking about tens of thousands of tests sales anymore but get this, "primary role is to build relationships with targeted urologists and encourage them to trial our product through a User Programme". So 3 years after launching in the States, the 19 recruited salesmen are working on encouraging urologists to TRIAL the product - NOT selling the product! Biggest giveaway of how far behind sales they are.

The cash burn continues.

But Balance my old mate - in a short announcement there were 5 'build' and 3 'track' related words

Impressive

What was his favourite word last year - can't recall

[Balance]

The hype put out by vested interests such as Directors and employees of Pacific Edge should be avoided at all costs.

Now they are not the only company that has bladder tests out there, their opinion is that it is more accurate than any others out there. I wonder. Just recently a friend of mine had his bladder tested by the old painful method. You would think that as a NZ company their test would have been in use here everywhere for some time.



These two articles give a good idea of why PEB is not gertting traction out there :

http://www.urotoday.com/recent-abstracts/urologic-oncology/bladder-cancer/86727-multiplex-pcr-and-next-generation-sequencing-for-the-non-invasive-detection-of-bladder-cancer.html

"Highly sensitive and specific urine-based tests to detect either primary or recurrent bladder cancer have proved elusive to date".

http://labiotech.eu/vitadx-france-bladder-cancer-diagnostic-test-onera-cnrs-ismo/

"Conventional diagnostic tests for bladder cancer use cell microscopy from urine sample using a Papanicolaou stain – a technique which lacks sensitivity for early cancers (an average of just 20% sensitivity). This is because the cell’s morphology is not yet altered for a proper diagnosis to be possible".

All the user programs in the world cannot change the above.

PEB would be better off spending time and resources tackling the assertions and/or perception above.

[Balance]

But Balance my old mate - in a short announcement there were 5 'build' and 3 'track' related words

Impressive

What was his favourite word last year - can't recall

Poor DD has been issued with a carefully built device (from the University of Otago) which delivers electric shocks to his bodily person whenever he writes or utters his favorite word from last year.

The device has been successfully tested via a user program on Chris Swann. :D

[Balance]

You also know when PEB announced it, it was marked as GENERAL, NOT PRICE SENSITIVE?

Like the change in Australian partnership, it wasn't meant to be big news at all, just complying with disclosure rules... I would have been surprised if Tan Tock Seng Hospital had actually mentioned something, then you would know it is at least 'reasonably sized' news (considering they are such a big hospital, and what PEB is doing with them is very small by there standards, and even minor by PEB standards, but future potential is there)

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/278427

And this is Price Sensitive?

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/278427

And this is Price Sensitive?

Of course - $77,000 down the gurgler is quite material in PEB land

[winner69]

Poor DD has been issued with a carefully built device (from the University of Otago) which delivers electric shocks to his bodily person whenever he writes or utters his favorite word from last year.

The device has been successfully tested via a user program on Chris Swann. :D

So David not allowed to 'excited' anymore?

[winner69]

The days are long but the decades are short

[Balance]

So David not allowed to 'excited' anymore?

Haha - they observed that every time he uttered that word, the sp dropped!

They are doing another one for Chris Swann so that he does not utter the immortal words 'tens of thousands' anymore too.

BTW - you notice that they achieved targeted sales in the US in the announcement today?

"Achieved targeted sales force size in the US with 18 specialist sales executives covering 19 targeted major metropolitan regions"

[winner69]

Haha - they observed that every time he uttered that word, the sp dropped!

They are doing another one for Chris Swann so that he does not utter the immortal words 'tens of thousands' anymore too.

BTW - you notice that they achieved targeted sales in the US in the announcement today?

"Achieved targeted sales force size in the US with 18 specialist sales executives covering 19 targeted major metropolitan regions"

One exec must be busy - 2 targeted regions to look after

[winner69]

Haha - they observed that every time he uttered that word, the sp dropped!

"
I recall David was once excited with the 'successful commercialisation' of Arborgen

[skid]

who needs the new report when we can just look at this one

From 2014


http://www.pacificedgedx.com/news-and-media/news/pacific-edge-signs-cxbladder-agreement-with-multiplan/


Heres the good part (2014)


“In addition we are advancing relationships with large commercial payers and the Centre for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), which provides healthcare insurance for 100 million people or nearly a third of the American population. Progress is being made with key customer segments including Integrated Healthcare Systems, the Veterans Administration (VA), and Large Urology Groups (LUGS), who are the point of contact for many patients presenting with haematuria (blood in the urine) which is an early indicator of possible bladder cancer.”

But of course the most interesting thing about the new report is the name he didnt mention...the name everyones been waiting for in regards to PEB and user tests.

[nextbigthing]

Pleasingly, we are well down the track and hope to have
approvals in the near future


For the Veteran's Administration, we are nearing completion of the process
for registration

That's certainly positive. I still think once they get one big user group onboard it will become easier and easier to sign up more. Hopefully this pans out for them.

[trader_jackson]

the report ticks all the boxes, and they aren't going to provide an update on tests processed every 5 minutes... (or 3 months)... they haven't completed key avenues for sales yet, would be like trying to sell fruit without any physical presence to sell fruit (ie a retail shop or warehouse)... and then expecting the fruit shop to announce record/huge numbers of sales... but this is the illogical logic of sharetrader members... (although PEB may not have helped being clearly a bit to optimistic a few years ago)

The cash burn, of which they have plenty, continues, as it does with any growth company... the 1200% increase in sales is certainly possible (once the appropriate avenues are open), as long as income is increasing more than expenses, I believe, as it has been pointed out several times before, PEB would be cash flow positive in a few years, no more capital would be raised and profitable by 2020 or so.

Anyway, patience is a virtue some don't have, nor understand
As I said about half a year ago, give it 2 years then lets go over things with a ruler :t_up:

[Balance]

the report ticks all the boxes, and they aren't going to provide an update on tests processed every 5 minutes... (or 3 months)... they haven't completed key avenues for sales yet, would be like trying to sell fruit without any physical presence to sell fruit (ie a retail shop or warehouse)... and then expecting the fruit shop to announce record/huge numbers of sales... but this is the illogical logic of sharetrader members... (although PEB may not have helped being clearly a bit to optimistic a few years ago)


Ticks all the boxes indeed - especially for the underwriters choking on their shares and knowing that at this rate, they are going to think seriously about cutting their losses or throw in good money after bad soon enough>

As for key avenue for sales, you mean PEB has been lying to investors, shareholders and the market for the last 3 years?

One sentence : "tens of thousands of tests"!

:D :D :D

[Carpenterjoe]

I know most think I am wasting my time tracking royalty payments, but someone might be interested and its the only way I have found to monitor test amounts. Again, I know it will always be out of date. but oh well.


Cellmid received payment of $61660 in six months ending Dec 15. minimum tests for period $61660/$9.9 = 6228
Previous payments of 50K and 18K from memory.

[forest]

I know most think I am wasting my time tracking royalty payments, but someone might be interested and its the only way I have found to monitor test amounts. Again, I know it will always be out of date. but oh well.


Cellmid received payment of $61660 in six months ending Dec 15. minimum tests for period $61660/$9.9 = 6228
Previous payments of 50K and 18K from memory.

Thanks Carpenterjoe, this seems the best data to use to follow PEB progress. I sold my PEB long ago but still like to follow there (stunted) progress.

Tip for anybody considering investing in PEB, do some research on the chairman.
Decide if he has the experience and energy to lead this company to the next challenging level.

[skid]

the report ticks all the boxes, and they aren't going to provide an update on tests processed every 5 minutes... (or 3 months)... they haven't completed key avenues for sales yet, would be like trying to sell fruit without any physical presence to sell fruit (ie a retail shop or warehouse)... and then expecting the fruit shop to announce record/huge numbers of sales... but this is the illogical logic of sharetrader members... (although PEB may not have helped being clearly a bit to optimistic a few years ago)

The cash burn, of which they have plenty, continues, as it does with any growth company... the 1200% increase in sales is certainly possible (once the appropriate avenues are open), as long as income is increasing more than expenses, I believe, as it has been pointed out several times before, PEB would be cash flow positive in a few years, no more capital would be raised and profitable by 2020 or so.

Anyway, patience is a virtue some don't have, nor understand
As I said about half a year ago, give it 2 years then lets go over things with a ruler :t_up:

Your absolutely right TJ--Be patient --dont throw your dosh into a share that has not come up with the goods --if ,or when they do (and that means more than promises)--great ,then think about it----On the other hand,if your impatient ,and have a dose of ''the gambler attitude'' then by all means jump in--then it gets back to patience again (only difference is your dosh is tied up)---Its looking like the same scenario for AFT eh?

1200% really means something if you are talking big numbers--If your talking small numbers ..well..
Processing tests really means something if you are selling tests,If you are giving them away..well..

There are many things that CAN happen ,but consider this,what else can you do if you have lots of money from shareholders and a product that is not getting off the ground.

I went to Takapuna beach last Sunday --They were giving away free drinks to promote a product --It must be a successful company because lots of people were taking the free drinks.:t_up::):mellow::(

Market Sentiment--every time they open their mouths these days the SP heads south

[Balance]

I went to Takapuna beach last Sunday --They were giving away free drinks to promote a product --It must be a successful company because lots of people were taking the free drinks.:t_up::):mellow::(

Market Sentiment--every time they open their mouths these days the SP heads south

The best analogy of what PEB is doing.

Hence the reluctance by this company to give any guidance on, and updates on actual tests done and sold. It would expose the sham behind all their statements of 'We are tracking to expectations'. Keep shifting and changing expectations and of course you will get always be on track.

"You cannot produce a baby in 1 month by trying to get 9 women pregnant." Warren Buffett

[trader_jackson]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/278479

Well Well Well, no surprises here, the first of many agreements to be sealed

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/278479

Well Well Well, no surprises here, the first of many agreements to be sealed

You having a good day t_j with aft and now this

Not being flagged Price Sensitive will send the share price rocketing

The days are long but the decades are short

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/278479

Well Well Well, no surprises here, the first of many agreements to be sealed

Not Price Sensitive.

Read it all before : October 2013 - "These provider networks provide patients access to healthcare services and
technology by contracting with providers and payers on a national basis.
These two recent agreements signed with FedMed and now ACPN will give
millions of Americans access to Cxbladder and its positive benefits as a
quick, cost effective, non-invasive and highly accurate cancer detection test
that is particularly appealing to US healthcare professionals, patients, and
insurers" said Jackie Walker,"

[trader_jackson]

Yes but now they have actually got the deal signed... after everyone saying "The US is slowing down, what happened to wonder woman" and the like...

It isn't price sensitive because we all knew it was only a matter of time, just very nice to know it is now done

[Leftfield]

Another step...... encouraging news for holders..

Pacific Edge Gains Access to Veterans Administration in USAPACIFIC EDGE SIGNS FEDERAL SUPPLY SCHEDULE AGREEMENTThe USA subsidiary of global cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge Limited (NZX:PEB), has signed a Federal Supply Schedule (FSS) agreement with Veterans Administration, which will allow the company to market its innovative, non-invasive bladder cancer detection technology, Cxbladder, to the Veterans Administration (VA), the nation's largest integrated health care system.

The FSS contract will provide access to Cxbladder for the 8.8 million veterans currently enrolled in the VA across 1700 sites. In addition, the contract also provides access to Cxbladder tests at the 150 US Department of Defense (DOD) facilities across the United States.

[biker]

Great news. Well overdue but great news nonetheless.

[When the bass drops]

Pleasing news but still a very very long way to go. It's likely that the SP won't go anywhere until PEB starts publishing actual test numbers. Cautiously optimistic.

[Balance]

Year end window dressing on a grand scale by the institutions stuck with all that lovely underwritten stock at 61 cents.

So :

15% down on their underwritten shares and,

41% down on the 89 cents at beginning of 2015, and

65% down on the $1.47 at beginning of 2014.

NZ market was up 13.5% so under performances was 54.5%.

All in perspective.

Directors and management of PEB need to look closely at how they have mismanaged this company and misspent the tens of millions of new capital entrusted to them (with them contributing nothing in the last capital raising) as 2016 dawns.

Then, PEB may have a good year in 2016 and beyond.

Now watch the underwriters try and suck others into the 'hype'.

[winner69]

PEB top of the leader board - +20% already

[okane]

Great news.

Also encouraging to see a positive statement about revenue in the press release: "Laboratory through-put and revenue are tracking to the company’s expectations following an active direct sales and marketing program to clinicians and healthcare organisations."

[When the bass drops]

The market will correct itself by the end of the day probably, so I won't be surprised if it drops near the 40c again. We won't see any major moves in the share price until the company starts making profit and reports the actual numbers of tests sold. They have certainly been waiting for the opportune time to list the numbers, to provide actual scale to investors, and so when the US numbers start hiking it should give them the confidence needed. I don't disagree with Balance at the moment that the actual numbers to date, although not known, are likely very underwhelming.

[Bilbo]

PEB top of the leader board - +20% already

Yes but the announcement was "Not Price Sensitive". Seems the share price is "Announcement Sensitive" though :)

[winner69]

Yes but the announcement was "Not Price Sensitive". Seems the share price is "Announcement Sensitive" though :)

PEB management/advisors have it sussed

'Price Sensitive' is bad and share price falls

Not being 'Price Sensitive' leads to speculation and share price rockets

Clever eh

[Balance]

Great news.

Also encouraging to see a positive statement about revenue in the press release: "Laboratory through-put and revenue are tracking to the company’s expectations following an active direct sales and marketing program to clinicians and healthcare organisations."

PEB will always meet expectations - they change their expectations every quarter.

[jonu]

PEB will always meet expectations - they change their expectations every quarter.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't ay Balance? Are you trying to tell us the Vets agreement is actually bad for PEB. If not, is it a surprise the SP has lifted? A healthy cynicism is a good thing when investing, but maybe there is a point when it becomes unhealthy.

[Balance]

PEB top of the leader board - +20% already

A repeat of the window washing in December 2015.

[Balance]

Damned if they do and damned if they don't ay Balance? Are you trying to tell us the Vets agreement is actually bad for PEB. If not, is it a surprise the SP has lifted? A healthy cynicism is a good thing when investing, but maybe there is a point when it becomes unhealthy.

It is a fact - they change their expectations.

[winner69]

A repeat of the window washing in December 2015.

Exciting times though Balance

[golden city]

Pick up some at 50c. To see if there is any luck

[Balance]

Now watch the underwriters try and suck others into the 'hype'.

The 4 top institutional shareholders (courtesy of the underwritten stock) have 31% of PEB - 116m shares.

They will keep throwing money to boost the sp of their shareholdings imo as it is a basic game now of spending another million dollar to boost the performance of the 116m shares they already own, are are stuck with.

Stuck with because no other institutions are showing they are interested.

[When the bass drops]

It's probably accurate to say that there is progress, but there is a long way to go as the urologists on mass still need to be convinced that the cxbladder suite is good enough to replace what is there already. There is no guarantee here. However, there is probably a little renewed confidence to start building exposure again to PEB. A May announcement for 2H2016 could reveal a bit more. There needs to be some progress made on the Kaiser and CMS front.

Cautiously optimistic.

[nextbigthing]

While it's great to see some positive news coming out, haven't we had this before? Approval from a large group, meaning access to millions of customers, only to find out it was just the first hurdle of many and now they will want to see a user program etc. Meaning actual sales are no closer, they're just theoretically possible now? Buyer beware? Or is this different, I haven't looked into it in detail. Still hope it pans out for them anyway and it's certainly not bad news in the mean time.

[Balance]

While it's great to see some positive news coming out, haven't we had this before? Approval from a large group, meaning access to millions of customers, only to find out it was just the first hurdle of many and now they will want to see a user program etc. Meaning actual sales are no closer, they're just theoretically possible now? Buyer beware? Or is this different, I haven't looked into it in detail. Still hope it pans out for them anyway and it's certainly not bad news in the mean time.

Exactly.

Remember this announcement in October 2013? "The agreement provides FedMed's contracted insurance carriers, third party
administrators, health and welfare funds, and self-insured health plans with
access to Cxbladder. More than 40 million Americans have access to FedMed's
National Provider Network of over 550,000 physicians, 4,000 hospitals and
60,000 ancillary care providers nationwide."

Well, history repeats itself and there are punters who jumped in on the latest announcement.

[skid]

While it's great to see some positive news coming out, haven't we had this before? Approval from a large group, meaning access to millions of customers, only to find out it was just the first hurdle of many and now they will want to see a user program etc. Meaning actual sales are no closer, they're just theoretically possible now? Buyer beware? Or is this different, I haven't looked into it in detail. Still hope it pans out for them anyway and it's certainly not bad news in the mean time.

Ditto....Are the tests covered by any one or just made available at the going price?

[winner69]

Some 8.8 million vets - heaps of potential customers there

[Balance]

Some 8.8 million vets - heaps of potential customers there

Not as many as the 40 million covered by FedMed, wouldn't you agree?

[Balance]

Courtesy of Crackity :

A promising announcement but the jury is definitely still out on the merits of PEB as an investment. Quote below from Jan 2016 report - investors may note their a quite a few competing products and many are further down the track with approvals and have industry linkages.

Policy:
Initial diagnosis
The following urinary bladder tumor markers meet Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama’s medical criteria for coverage as an adjunct in the diagnosis of bladder cancer only in conjunction with current standard diagnostic procedures (urine cytology or cystoscopy, with or without biopsy):
• BTA-STAT*, BTA-TRAK*;
• NMP22*, NMP22 BLADDER CHEK*;
• UROVYSION*;
The following urinary bladder tumor marker does not meet Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama’s medical criteria for coverage and is considered investigational in the diagnosis of bladder cancer:
• IMMUNOCYT
Bladder cancer monitoring
The following urinary bladder cancer tumor markers meet Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama’s medical criteria for coverage as an adjunct in the monitoring of bladder cancer only in conjunction with current standard diagnostic procedures (urine cytology or cystoscopy, with or without biopsy):
• BTA-STAT*, BTA-TRAK*;
• IMMUNOCYT*;
• NMP22*, NMP22 BLADDER CHEK*;
• UROVYSION*;
The use of all other bladder cancer tumor markers (including but not limited to, CertNDx, Cxbladder) do not meet Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama’s medical criteria for coverage and is considered investigational in the diagnosis, monitoring, or screening for bladder cancer.

[Balance]

Courtesy of the Moose :

"The FSS contract award is a lengthy and iterative process. Following this
signing of the agreement, the VA will issue the contract award documentation and we will begin engaging with the key stakeholders within the many VA and DOD centers to ensure that Cxbladder is AVAILABLE to physicians and their patients."

Sorry to burst the PEB bubble (again), but no sales are guaranteed, and PEB still has to keep giving away its kit to physicians and urologists. Note also that the announcement is NOT price sensitive. Seems history is repeating itself as well, as this update is along the same lines as this update from October 2013 (when the share price rocketed):

The addition of Stratose along with FedMed and ACPN now provides network coverage to a significant pool of American people giving commercial access to Cxbladder and its positive benefits as a quick, cost effective, non-invasive and highly accurate cancer detection test, all of which are particularly appealing to US healthcare professionals, patients, and insurers alike."

Lots of talk, but still no walk!

[golden city]

Share price indicates like it will walk potentially

[Balance]

Share price indicates like it will walk potentially

As it did in Oct 2013? Soared to $1.75 and came crashing after that.

PS. As it did during 'window dressing' in Dec 2015?

[Bing]

Courtesy of the Moose :


Seems like in addition to a private group of cheerleaders there is also a private group of haters...:ohmy:

[jonu]

Share price indicates like it will walk potentially

Yes but Balance is annoyed he didn't buy last week at 40 :ohmy:

[Balance]

Seems like in addition to a private group of cheerleaders there is also a private group of haters...:ohmy:

Haha - you mean there is actually a private group of cheerleaders (silently nursing their losses)?

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-shares-jump-two-month-high-after-signing-supply-agreement-us-vets-b-185529

Sorry to disappoint you but postings from NBR as the other two characters have been 'quarantined'.

[Bing]

Sorry to disappoint you but postings from NBR as the other two characters have been 'quarantined'.
Not disappointed. I was just amused. Anyway carry on.

[When the bass drops]

Here is the obvious question. Why in the heck has Pacific Edge, by a country mile, got the most views amongst the NZX threads (3,085,168) and the second most replies (14,246 - second to NZ oil and gas).... its off topic but its just an interesting observation.

[skid]

Here is the obvious question. Why in the heck has Pacific Edge, by a country mile, got the most views amongst the NZX threads (3,085,168) and the second most replies (14,246 - second to NZ oil and gas).... its off topic but its just an interesting observation.

It was the darling of the NZX for a period--same with NZO---Its kind of quieted down lately as not much has been happening ,but now with finally something,its attracted some interest and supporters have a sniff of something that can be interpreted as good news(potentially) (Its still in the potential category as far as sales)
so they can celebrate..and fair enough..its been a while

[Balance]

It was the darling of the NZX for a period--same with NZO---Its kind of quieted down lately as not much has been happening ,but now with finally something,its attracted some interest and supporters have a sniff of something that can be interpreted as good news(potentially) (Its still in the potential category as far as sales)
so they can celebrate..and fair enough..its been a while

Following in the glorious path of NZOG.

[kiwidollabill]

Following in the glorious path of NZOG.

I've just been reading the wonderful story of WDT, similarities?

[BlackPeter]

Here is the obvious question. Why in the heck has Pacific Edge, by a country mile, got the most views amongst the NZX threads (3,085,168) and the second most replies (14,246 - second to NZ oil and gas).... its off topic but its just an interesting observation.

Easy.

short answer: based on anecdotal evidence is normalised thread length (and busy-ness) of a stock on share trader inversely proportional to company and long-term SP performance; Your 2 examples (NZO and PEB) are clear evidence for that. Same was / is true for RAK, PRC, GEN, DPC, CRP ...

(a bit) long(er) answer: people like to discuss controversial topics - threads in which everybody agrees on the company performance and outlook have obviously little potential to grow fast. Both PEB as well as NZO are however very controversial companies, have a lot of disappointed shareholders and attract punters. They are as well good traders stocks - the SP reacts quite intensely to any announcement.

To put it into other words: If you wouldn't know it anyway - the normalised thread length on share trader is a good indication of the "speculative-ness" of a stock. And hey - speculative shares (like PEB and NZO) may bring huge gains, but more often they just peter out ...

Obviously - what makes the PEB and NZO threads even stand out of the crowd of other speculative stocks is the fact that they (company and thread) are already for ages (more than a decade) around ....

[Balance]

As it did in Oct 2013? Soared to $1.75 and came crashing after that.

PS. As it did during 'window dressing' in Dec 2015?

Love the way the window dressing continues with this stock. Notice how the volume market is 47c but out popped a trade at 49c, 22 seconds after the 47c trades, to try and make out that the market price is 49c?

Surest sign of the underwriters desperately trying to ramp the sp higher.


112 3:42:30 pm 0.49 20,000 $9,800
111 3:42:08 pm 0.47 11,581 $5,443
110 3:42:08 pm 0.47 50,432 $23,703
109 3:42:08 pm 0.47 50,432 $23,703
108 3:42:08 pm 0.47 23,000 $10,810
107 3:42:08 pm 0.47 10,000 $4,700
106 3:42:08 pm 0.47 3,523 $1,656
105 3:42:08 pm 0.47 6,256 $2,940
104 3:42:08 pm 0.48 20,000 $9,600

So they get it higher and be in a position to liquidate some of their shareholdings?

[Bing]

VA approval is certainly a positive development. I noticed the language had changed from "progressing well" to "in the near future" when referring to the VA / CMS agreements being finalised. Hopefully this means that the CMS agreement will be announced soon as well.
I agree with those who have pointed out that this doesn't mean any tests have actually been sold, but it was a significant hurdle to overcome none the less.


With regards to Blue Cross, American Urology Assoc. etc. they are basing their reports on the available published clinical studies, of which their is precious little for cxBladder so far. This should change as trials from Singapore, NZ and KP complete and add to the positive (hopefully)evidence.
In the meantime the user programmes allow urologists to try out the product for themselves and build a level of confidence in it. Unlike free ice creams at the beach a medical specialist is not going to hand out "free" tests to all his patients for the hell of it. If a urology group has agreed to trail cxBladder then it means they have already been almost sold on the idea and just need further proof if works as advertised (in the absence of multiple clinical studies and/or a large existing customer base). That is the reason the number of tests being processed through the labs, free or otherwise, is relevant as it points to the potential.


Still a lot of work to be done and significant risks remain but a positive step forward. The results in May will of course give a true indication of how things are going. I am optimistic that they will show things are looking up.

[Andrew]

Access to VA doesn't translate as large sales. An analogy to WDT brought up earlier, is true. Until PEB makes a profit, and that is a long way off in my opinion, I will be glad that I sold out earlier eventhough I made a loss. Mind you it may be I could eat my words. If only we could see into the future.

[skid]

VA approval is certainly a positive development. I noticed the language had changed from "progressing well" to "in the near future" when referring to the VA / CMS agreements being finalised. Hopefully this means that the CMS agreement will be announced soon as well.
I agree with those who have pointed out that this doesn't mean any tests have actually been sold, but it was a significant hurdle to overcome none the less.


With regards to Blue Cross, American Urology Assoc. etc. they are basing their reports on the available published clinical studies, of which their is precious little for cxBladder so far. This should change as trials from Singapore, NZ and KP complete and add to the positive (hopefully)evidence.
In the meantime the user programmes allow urologists to try out the product for themselves and build a level of confidence in it. Unlike free ice creams at the beach a medical specialist is not going to hand out "free" tests to all his patients for the hell of it. If a urology group has agreed to trail cxBladder then it means they have already been almost sold on the idea and just need further proof if works as advertised (in the absence of multiple clinical studies and/or a large existing customer base). That is the reason the number of tests being processed through the labs, free or otherwise, is relevant as it points to the potential.


Still a lot of work to be done and significant risks remain but a positive step forward. The results in May will of course give a true indication of how things are going. I am optimistic that they will show things are looking up.

They dont give free ice creams on the beach just for the hell of it---they want to see if it translates into a demand for the product.

they are doing the tests IMO to see if they bring results that are better than what the news has been so far (AUA says results are not conclusive and they dont recommend going that route at this point---That doesnt translate to ''almost sold''

[777]

Love the way the window dressing continues with this stock. Notice how the volume market is 47c but out popped a trade at 49c, 22 seconds after the 47c trades, to try and make out that the market price is 49c?

Surest sign of the underwriters desperately trying to ramp the sp higher.


112 3:42:30 pm 0.49 20,000 $9,800
111 3:42:08 pm 0.47 11,581 $5,443
110 3:42:08 pm 0.47 50,432 $23,703
109 3:42:08 pm 0.47 50,432 $23,703
108 3:42:08 pm 0.47 23,000 $10,810
107 3:42:08 pm 0.47 10,000 $4,700
106 3:42:08 pm 0.47 3,523 $1,656
105 3:42:08 pm 0.47 6,256 $2,940
104 3:42:08 pm 0.48 20,000 $9,600

So they get it higher and be in a position to liquidate some of their shareholdings?

That is only the mechanics of the market. Nothing sinister.

[Bing]

They dont give free ice creams on the beach just for the hell of it---they want to see if it translates into a demand for the product.

they are doing the tests IMO to see if they bring results that are better than what the news has been so far (AUA says results are not conclusive and they dont recommend going that route at this point---That doesnt translate to ''almost sold''

User programmes may be free or at cost but they still require a significant investment in time from the urologist. I don't see any urologist agreeing to be involved in a user programme unless he has some level of belief in the usefulness of the product and that he is not going to give his patients participating false hopes if the tests come back wildly off the mark. He is not going to participate just to satisfy a curiosity about the test.
Certainly a large organisation such as KP is not going to undertake a large trial unless they have a high level of confidence that the results will be favourable.
Okay maybe "almost sold" is a bit strong, I'll give you that.

[Balance]

User programmes may be free or at cost but they still require a significant investment in time from the urologist. I don't see any urologist agreeing to be involved in a user programme unless he has some level of belief in the usefulness of the product and that he is not going to give his patients participating false hopes if the tests come back wildly off the mark. He is not going to participate just to satisfy a curiosity about the test.
Certainly a large organisation such as KP is not going to undertake a large trial unless they have a high level of confidence that the results will be favourable.
Okay maybe "almost sold" is a bit strong, I'll give you that.

Ever wonder why PEB cannot use the results of one user program to market and promote its product successfully?

[When the bass drops]

I suspect that the various key targets have their own unique requirements/barriers for entry or persuasion, in that, by convention, they cannot be influenced by other reports to form their own opinion. This appears to be a reason why PEB cannot promote to other groups. Each group is taking the "I need to see it for myself" approach rather than relying on the success or otherwise from another user program. This shows the frustratingly slow process, but they all have to go thru it.

[Bing]

Ever wonder why PEB cannot use the results of one user program to market and promote its product successfully?
I'm sure they do where possible, however an endorsement from a doctor who has completed a user programme is not the same as an independent published clinical trial that has been peer reviewed. Doctors are a conservative lot.
Clinical trials are expensive and time consuming. Not all user programmes will be published in a medical journal.

[skid]

I'm sure they do where possible, however an endorsement from a doctor who has completed a user programme is not the same as an independent published clinical trial that has been peer reviewed. Doctors are a conservative lot.
Clinical trials are expensive and time consuming. Not all user programmes will be published in a medical journal.

Perhaps you should track the progress of NMP22--It has been available at major hospitals and within the Veterans administration system since 1998---That may give you an idea of how things may go for PEB

[Bing]

Perhaps cxBladder will prove to be a superior product? After all KP hasn't bothered to trial NMP22 after all these years but jumped at the chance to trial Triage even before its official release. Time will tell.

[Balance]

That is only the mechanics of the market. Nothing sinister.

Haha - same then with the window dressing in Dec 2015, simply market mechanics.

[Balance]

Perhaps cxBladder will prove to be a superior product? After all KP hasn't bothered to trial NMP22 after all these years but jumped at the chance to trial Triage even before its official release. Time will tell.



Where did you get the information that KP has not bothered to trial NMP22 ...???

[trader_jackson]

Where did you get the information that KP has not bothered to trial NMP22 ...???

Where did you get all your information that some of the price action today is pure window dressing by institutions to pump up the price?

As you can see, I've stayed quiet today (mainly because I've been busy) but it is crazy some of the accusations/statements being thrown around today, almost funny in fact!

[When the bass drops]

Yea TD ... it seems for some of us every silver lining has a bit fat ugly grey cloud in front of it. And the cloud is the focus....

I take the Balanced approach of being cautiously optimistic, trying to not get too upbeat about a positive announcement, and not too glum if a stumbling block gets in the way.

[Balance]

Where did you get all your information that some of the price action today is pure window dressing by institutions to pump up the price?

As you can see, I've stayed quiet today (mainly because I've been busy) but it is crazy some of the accusations/statements being thrown around today, almost funny in fact!

In the land of the blind, the one eye man is king.

[777]

Balance just back to his old self. Time for the ignore button again.

[Bing]

Good to have your views challenged some times. That's what makes this thread exciting. I also own EBO and AWK but those threads are boring. Just a bunch of people congratulating themselves on being "well positioned"!! :p