PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[skid]

I think in the case of Edison(dont quote me) its a case of whether they are contracted by a company to produce one.

[Minerbarejet]

That would be great if you were the one making the decisions--What comes first is the grand plan--(as it looks now ,its cuts) then ,later down the line someone makes those small decisions on micro companies and their test--(PEB is but a flea on the back of a knat on a big ole dog---It can be the greatest test in the world and still fall through the bureaucratic cracks while everyone is trying to make up their minds on what to do---Dont forget the specialists have reason to protect cytology----New innovations do not always do well in an environment of cut backs...Its looking like Medicare has far more important things to think about ATM.

Better than not that PEB has a good product that can potentially save money(most however would still do cytology)--but that alone does not open doors---It just gives you a chance to open doors---that chance is going to be harder Imo---(now if they made some spiffy new military gadget--(thats where the dosh is going)

Read my lips--Trump does not care about things that are for looking after the people,or the planet.I must be thick, I cant think of a good reason for a specialist to protect cytology. What would that do, precisely? Please explain.

[When the bass drops]

I must be thick, I cant think of a good reason for a specialist to protect cytology. What would that do, precisely? Please explain.

There is absolutely no good reason for specialists to protect cytology. All the reasons would be related to self-interest, and the main one is about protecting the revenue levels of specialists (financial reason).

I agree skid needs to explain this one here.

[pierre]

Read my lips--Trump does not care about things that are for looking after the people,or the planet.

I doubt that Donald will be consulted by anyone in the USA or elsewhere about the use of PEB products in the US health system.

However, those that ARE charged with looking after the health of its citizens and seeking ways to minimize the costs of doing so, may prove to be quite interested in new non-invasive and lower cost technology for those with or potentially suffering from bladder cancer.

In the event that Donald becomes one of those unfortunates then he may well care about a thing that is for looking after the people.

[trader_jackson]

Read my lips--Trump does not care about things that are for looking after the people,or the planet.

But he cares about money and efficiency, and the incumbent 'competitor', cytology, is far more expensive, and far less efficient... isn't this only good news for PEB? If anything, what you have just brought up will speed up the transition to PEB's products (bring the cash flow estimates forward...)

[Balance]

Haha - all this discussion about US and its screwed up healthcare structure.

Trying to understand it, probably easier to try and understand why Americans still have a freely available gun policy when it is clear that without guns, there will be less violence especially the mass shootings of school kids.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/293908

Confirmation (again) underwriters sucking on this kumara.

[kiwidollabill]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/293908

Confirmation (again) underwriters sucking on this kumara.

Reckon they were the ones propping up the slide after the release of the financials?

[trader_jackson]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/293908

Confirmation (again) underwriters sucking on this kumara.

24 November 2016

But are they 'supporting' it or are they, potentially, taking advantage of small retail short sightedness? (I could give a few examples of users on here ;))
(who, for example today, on low volume, sold at a 10% discount to what they could have got if they had waited just a couple of hours?)

Great to see, reaffirms they have great confidence... probably took advantage of the recent retail panic I mentioned a few weeks back
You can't seriously expect them to keep purchasing millions of shares if they had lost all confidence after all these "years of missing targets" that you often like to infer?

[skid]

There is absolutely no good reason for specialists to protect cytology. All the reasons would be related to self-interest, and the main one is about protecting the revenue levels of specialists (financial reason).

I agree skid needs to explain this one here.

Let me put that more diplomatically--That is thier field--Its what they are good at, and used to and may have a tendency to want to stay with that--and as you say its their income stream.--Many would want to do it ,even with the urine test.

[skid]

But he cares about money and efficiency, and the incumbent 'competitor', cytology, is far more expensive, and far less efficient... isn't this only good news for PEB? If anything, what you have just brought up will speed up the transition to PEB's products (bring the cash flow estimates forward...)

Thats looking at it from within the PEB bubble-and its true (it could save money) although it wont save much if they want to do a cytology as well ,which many will--But my point is that things are in such a phase of transition and uncertainty atm that many things ,good and bad will most likely be put on the back burner.. imo--I think some are giving the system over there far more credit than they often deserve--there are alot of politics and lobbying involved.

[skid]

I doubt that Donald will be consulted by anyone in the USA or elsewhere about the use of PEB products in the US health system.

However, those that ARE charged with looking after the health of its citizens and seeking ways to minimize the costs of doing so, may prove to be quite interested in new non-invasive and lower cost technology for those with or potentially suffering from bladder cancer.

In the event that Donald becomes one of those unfortunates then he may well care about a thing that is for looking after the people.

He'll just buy the test--He thinks everyone should look after themselves and damn the poor

[Minerbarejet]

Cytology: is the examination of cells from the body under a microscope. In a urine cytology exam, a doctor looks at cells collected from a urine specimen, to see how they look and function. The test commonly checks for infection, inflammatory disease of the urinary tract, cancer, or precancerous conditions.

Cystoscopy: The examination of the interior of the bladder by flexible camera inserted through the urethra.

[Defater]

Thank you for that explanation Miner but will you please repeat it in a larger font so that some of the other posters could get to grips with the fact that weeing into a jar is far better than having someone inserting a cystoscope ( a flexible tube or it can be a metal instrument ) up the urethral opening of your penis.

[Snow Leopard]

Thank you for that explanation Miner but will you please repeat it in a larger font so that some of the other posters could get to grips with the fact that weeing into a jar is far better than having someone inserting a cystoscope ( a flexible tube or it can be a metal instrument ) up the urethral opening of your penis.

No it is not !

A Cystoscopy has a much better detection rate for early stage bladder cancers than the likes of CxBladder.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Minerbarejet]

Thank you for that explanation Miner but will you please repeat it in a larger font so that some of the other posters could get to grips with the fact that weeing into a jar is far better than having someone inserting a cystoscope ( a flexible tube or it can be a metal instrument ) up the urethral opening of your penis.Weeing into a jar, testing and finding nothing, in the first instance, is much better than having someone inserting a cystoscope into the urethra and finding nothing. This applies in both Triage for initial assessment for haematuria and Monitor for ongoing regular evaluation, sometimes for years, after an operation.

[Baa_Baa]

Weeing into a jar, testing and finding nothing, in the first instance, is much better than having someone inserting a cystoscope into the urethra and finding nothing. This applies in both Triage for initial assessment for haematuria and Monitor for ongoing regular evaluation, sometimes for years, after an operation.


With respect for your tireless advocacy, it doesn't matter what you say or how rationale your argument is, in so far as the efficacy of the products, PEB really do have to perform as a business before NZ investors will take it seriously.

This applies to many companies on the NZX, for example most of the hi-techs, like PEB, they are tarred with the brush of massive investment, b ugger all returns (if any), huge accumulated losses typically, and decades to recover them to profitability and equity positive.

NZX investors just don't 'get' startups, hi growths, promising new entrants, or anything other than stable and preferably boring profitable companies making more than they know how to invest and so paying that out as dividends. Hard to argue with that as an investor.

Imho, it's not worth the effort to keep banging the advocacy drum. Very few care until the company can evidence sustained profitability. It has nothing to do with product efficacy.

[Balance]

24 November 2016


Great to see, reaffirms they have great confidence... probably took advantage of the recent retail panic I mentioned a few weeks back
You can't seriously expect them to keep purchasing millions of shares if they had lost all confidence after all these "years of missing targets" that you often like to infer?

Yup - long and wrong, and what about all those lovely 'cheap' shares they picked up from underwriting the rights issue off the retail panic stricken shareholders? :D

[Balance]

Thank you for that explanation Miner but will you please repeat it in a larger font so that some of the other posters could get to grips with the fact that weeing into a jar is far better than having someone inserting a cystoscope ( a flexible tube or it can be a metal instrument ) up the urethral opening of your penis.

Johnny come lately regurgitating the 'compelling' proposition of CxBladder from 4 years ago!

Shows how far PEB has progressed!

Let's hear it again for 'tens of thousands of tests' :D

[Minerbarejet]

No it is not !

A Cystoscopy has a much better detection rate for early stage bladder cancers than the likes of CxBladder.

Best Wishes
Paper TigerYou have nailed it PT.
These words could become the company motto.
Peb result: "NO, It is not."
Instead of urologist result:
"Er, no, we had a bit of a look around but couldnt see anything so it might be something else and of course it could be upper tract which we cant see. Shall we book you in for a scan just to be sure?

[Snow Leopard]

You have nailed it PT.
These words could become the company motto.
Peb result: "NO, It is not."
Instead of urologist result:
"Er, no, we had a bit of a look around but couldnt see anything so it might be something else and of course it could be upper tract which we cant see. Shall we book you in for a scan just to be sure?

Sounds good but it would also be lying.

More truthful would be, "Probably, it is not, but we do miss a significant amount".

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Minerbarejet]

With respect for your tireless advocacy, it doesn't matter what you say or how rationale your argument is, in so far as the efficacy of the products, PEB really do have to perform as a business before NZ investors will take it seriously.

This applies to many companies on the NZX, for example most of the hi-techs, like PEB, they are tarred with the brush of massive investment, b ugger all returns (if any), huge accumulated losses typically, and decades to recover them to profitability and equity positive.

NZX investors just don't 'get' startups, hi growths, promising new entrants, or anything other than stable and preferably boring profitable companies making more than they know how to invest and so paying that out as dividends. Hard to argue with that as an investor.

Imho, it's not worth the effort to keep banging the advocacy drum. Very few care until the company can evidence sustained profitability. It has nothing to do with product efficacy.
Thanks Baa Baa but it is taking a long time for some to pinpoint the difference between cytology and cystoscopy. I will shut up now if you think it is all clear. Could do with a rest, the brick wall is giving me a headache.:)

[skid]

With respect for your tireless advocacy, it doesn't matter what you say or how rationale your argument is, in so far as the efficacy of the products, PEB really do have to perform as a business before NZ investors will take it seriously.

This applies to many companies on the NZX, for example most of the hi-techs, like PEB, they are tarred with the brush of massive investment, b ugger all returns (if any), huge accumulated losses typically, and decades to recover them to profitability and equity positive.

NZX investors just don't 'get' startups, hi growths, promising new entrants, or anything other than stable and preferably boring profitable companies making more than they know how to invest and so paying that out as dividends. Hard to argue with that as an investor.

Imho, it's not worth the effort to keep banging the advocacy drum. Very few care until the company can evidence sustained profitability. It has nothing to do with product efficacy.

Spot on.. Ba Ba--(Good reality check) Miner-I stand corrected--Cytology---Hope your headache gets better--maybe an AFT product would help

[skid]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dow-industrials-aim-for-fresh-all-time-high-2016-12-07

[When the bass drops]

This can't be very good for the company https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/249695.pdf

Balance will explain.

[Balance]

This can't be very good for the company https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/249695.pdf

Balance will explain.

Oh dear - market is not even reacting this time round to the 'good' news from PEB.

Oh for the days when such an announcement sent the sp rocketing upwards - egged on with 'tens of thousands' .

Maybe the bigger issue is about how much PEB needs to raise by way of yet another rights issue - and whether any underwriters can be found.

[When the bass drops]

Thanks Balance for your response, although your angle is from a market (share price) point of view solely, rather than what this means for the company. Perhaps another credibility tick?

The market already responded when the Kaiser announcement came out on the 14th Nov. I wouldn't think it would have got to the 60c-70c range from this announcement.

Yes, another rights issue is likely, provided a big transformational customer doesn't make a move prior 6 months from now, but in my view (as I have said before) it means the company will take longer to meet their stated objectives. I don't think there will be an issue finding underwriters as many of the big ones take a long-term view.

[Snow Leopard]

To quote from the release:
"demonstrated high test sensitivity (93%) and high negative predictive value (97%)"

If you do not understand sensitivity and negative predictive value are you may be impressed.

If you do understand what sensitivity and negative predictive value are you know that you are being fed marketing effluent.


Come on guys what was the specificity?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Bing]

No it is not !

A Cystoscopy has a much better detection rate for early stage bladder cancers than the likes of CxBladder.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Implications of non-detected cancer

There is no known data on the risk of disease progression for people with missed diagnoses, but we can extrapolate from data on patients who have been diagnosed, staged and treated. Studies of treated patients show that several factors affect disease recurrence and progression to invasive bladder disease, including grade and stage of disease and number of tumours.(52) Risk of progression is

· 0.2% after a year for lowest risk patients, including those with low grade disease and stage Ta;
· about 1% at 12 months post-treatment for those with carcinoma in-situ;
· 9% risk of progression to invasive disease at five years for patients with Ta or T1 disease without CIS treated solely with TURBT;
· between 7 and 40% at 5 years for patients with Ta or T1 disease with CIS.

These data suggest that, in low risk disease, a delay of a few months would probably not be associated with disease progression to a state where treatment options are fundamentally changed.

However the impact on clinical outcomes of a delay, of for example a number of months, in diagnosis of bladder cancer should also be considered in the context of current practice. Time to diagnosis includes the time from presentation in primary care, through initial investigation, referral to secondary care and waiting time until the specialist assessment. If the introduction of an alternative diagnostic pathway reduced the overall time to diagnosis, a delay of some months for a subset of patients may not make a significant difference from the status quo.

The non-detection and consequent delay in diagnosis of patients with higher stage disease is associated with greater risk of progression to a disease stage that affects treatment options and outcomes.

National Health Committee – Tier 3: The effectiveness of urinary biomarker genotypes (Cxbladder Detect) in the
investigation of haematuria in Primary Care



Study results
· Outperformed comparative tests as an adjunct to cystoscopy.
· Has a negative predictive value (NPV) of 97%.
· Detected 100% of T1-T3, Tis and upper tract tumors.
· Detected 97% of high-grade tumors.
· Detected 68% of Ta tumors as compared to cytology at 35%.
· Distinguished between low grade Ta tumors and other detected urothelial carcinomas with a sensitivity of 91% and specificity of 90%
· Robust to BPH, cystitis/UTI, hematuria secondary to warfarin, prostatitis and urolithiasis.
· Detected six urothelial carcinoma not identified by cystoscopy during the clinical work-up but confirmed at the 12 month follow-up:
o 1 x T2 single renal pelvis.
o 1 x Unk multiple high grade bladder tumors.
o 1 x T2 single high grade bladder tumor.
o 3 x Renal pelvic / distal uteric tumors (detected by CT; not path confirmed).
· Has an overall sensitivity of 82% at 85% specificity

8507

[kiwidollabill]

To quote from the release:
"demonstrated high test sensitivity (93%) and high negative predictive value (97%)"

If you do not understand sensitivity and negative predictive value are you may be impressed.

If you do understand what sensitivity and negative predictive value are you know that you are being fed marketing effluent.


Come on guys what was the specificity?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

If they haven't quoted it then possibly not very good. Play around the prevalence of your study groups and you can make a crap test 'look good'.

[Minerbarejet]

Looks like there may be a need for Hancocks famous car alarm analogy again.

[Bing]

https://twitter.com/drhwoo/status/730047742861414401

[Bing]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/293964

Those pesky underwriters at it again....

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/293964

Those pesky underwriters at it again....

Next dislosure be Ceasing to be a SSH?

[Balance]

Looks like there may be a need for Hancocks famous car alarm analogy again.

Now that is a name from the past - Hancocks.

Can remember his habit of posting exuberant and glowing comments on PEB, and deleting them as he went along.

[When the bass drops]

Whatever happens with PEB, I think its great having multi sides to the argument either for or against PEB's prospects. That's very important.

To my Sharetrader adversaries, you know who you are, have a Merry Christmas. I don't anticipate I will be posting until the new year.

[Balance]

Whatever happens with PEB, I think its great having multi sides to the argument either for or against PEB's prospects. That's very important.

To my Sharetrader adversaries, you know who you are, have a Merry Christmas. I don't anticipate I will be posting until the new year.

No adversaries on this site, WTBD - mostly just passionate and caring posters attempting to share ideas, information and points of views to try and make the right investment decisions.

Wishing you good cheer and a lovely time with your family during the festive season.

[winner69]

Now that is a name from the past - Hancocks.

Can remember his habit of posting exuberant and glowing comments on PEB, and deleting them as he went along.

Spose the Secret Forum Group he and MAC set up still going ......and debating the wonders of PEB .....and praising MAC for his DCF valuation of $1.35 or whatever

Mind you Hancocks still seems to have his 2 million plus shares .....he would have done well as an original investor

[Minerbarejet]

Now that is a name from the past - Hancocks.

Can remember his habit of posting exuberant and glowing comments on PEB, and deleting them as he went along.
Perhaps you could delete some of yours just to provide some balance.

[Balance]

Perhaps you could delete some of yours just to provide some balance.

Haha - then readers are going to lose the flavor of my postings and rationale of going from from a believer to a critic to a skeptic to a downright cynic.

[Minerbarejet]

Haha - then readers are going to lose the flavor of my postings and rationale of going from from a believer to a critic to a skeptic to a downright cynic.
And back again, no doubt.:)

[davflaws]

And back again, no doubt.:)

I know nothing whatever about Balance's internal process, but when I take a public stand about anything, I find it very difficult to change my opinion. The more extreme my position is and the longer I hold it, the harder it is for me to change.

Will Balance be able to claw his way back from the gloomy abyss of his cynicysm and join the believers frolicking in the lush uplands of commercial success when the showers of dividends begin to bathe the fertile soil of their wise investment.

[Minerbarejet]

I know nothing whatever about Balance's internal process, but when I take a public stand about anything, I find it very difficult to change my opinion. The more extreme my position is and the longer I hold it, the harder it is for me to change.

Will Balance be able to claw his way back from the gloomy abyss of his cynicysm and join the believers frolicking in the lush uplands of commercial success when the showers of dividends begin to bathe the fertile soil of their wise investment.Having recently done some research back along this thread I cant wait to see what the response is to your eloquent and elegant turn of phrase.

[Balance]

I know nothing whatever about Balance's internal process, but when I take a public stand about anything, I find it very difficult to change my opinion. The more extreme my position is and the longer I hold it, the harder it is for me to change.

Will Balance be able to claw his way back from the gloomy abyss of his cynicysm and join the believers frolicking in the lush uplands of commercial success when the showers of dividends begin to bathe the fertile soil of their wise investment.

LOL - making good investments is not about making a public stand like 'hell no, we won't go' or 'where he goes, we go'.

It is about assessing a company as an investment proposition - its prospects, its management, management pronouncements & statements, etc etc and then, most critically tracking those critical success factors as the results flow in. Then, it is about managing and adjusting one's investments and portfolio - increase or decrease or maybe, just hold - to suit one's own appraisal of the company's prospects.

That's how I invest anyway.

Observe immho that the surest way to lose plenty or worse, all - is to pick a company and sail with it, come hell or hailstorms, until its eventual destination. I am sure there are many who wonder how and why they went wrong with Wynyard, Pumpkin Patch, Rakon, Telecom and dare I say, Chase Corporation.

Happy as always for others to do it their own way.

[skid]

I know nothing whatever about Balance's internal process, but when I take a public stand about anything, I find it very difficult to change my opinion. The more extreme my position is and the longer I hold it, the harder it is for me to change.

Will Balance be able to claw his way back from the gloomy abyss of his cynicysm and join the believers frolicking in the lush uplands of commercial success when the showers of dividends begin to bathe the fertile soil of their wise investment.

Easy there Dav--the ball ,not the player mate--I dont think tearing down another poster is going to make you money--You can still invest as you see fit (if you truly believe in your fertile wish list)

[Minerbarejet]

Easy there Dav--the ball ,not the player mate--I dont think tearing down another poster is going to make you money--You can still invest as you see fit (if you truly believe in your fertile wish list)
Its hard to maintain your balance with one leg longer than the other.

[skid]

Its hard to maintain your balance with one leg longer than the other.

and Merry Christmas to you too! :)

[davflaws]

Easy there Dav--the ball ,not the player mate--I dont think tearing down another poster is going to make you money--You can still invest as you see fit (if you truly believe in your fertile wish list)

No offence was intended and I hope none was taken.

My comments about my own difficulty in changing a position or an opinion once I have adopted it were quite straight up and about me.

The remainder of the rave was intended as a light hearted reference to Balance's general attitude to PEB and I am genuinely sorry if I offended anyone.

[Balance]

No offence was intended and I hope none was taken.

My comments about my own difficulty in changing a position or an opinion once I have adopted it were quite straight up and about me.

The remainder of the rave was intended as a light hearted reference to Balance's general attitude to PEB and I am genuinely sorry if I offended anyone.

No offence taken.

As should be the way.

[Biscuit]

...when I take a public stand about anything, I find it very difficult to change my opinion...

You are not taking a public stand on something, you are an anonymous poster on the internet; best to use it as a chance to bounce ideas and learn from other people's wisdom (see Balance's post for example).

[winner69]

Good one Pacific Edge

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/294175


Maybe that's where my $15k donation went towards - if so I'm excited as much as David is

[skid]

Good one Pacific Edge

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/294175


Maybe that's where my $15k donation went towards - if so I'm excited as much as David is

Here it is...Come and get it everyone :):)

[skid]

No offence was intended and I hope none was taken.

My comments about my own difficulty in changing a position or an opinion once I have adopted it were quite straight up and about me.

The remainder of the rave was intended as a light hearted reference to Balance's general attitude to PEB and I am genuinely sorry if I offended anyone.

Point taken about some getting stuck in their opinions--Thats why when some change their stance imo it should not be ridiculed--the company has to earn it though imo.

It appears to be a waiting game..so the question is how long can the clock tic for a result if there is one--(those cap raising do damage)
My concern is that in terms of uncertain policies (USA)..it could be awhile.
Im sure that customer numbers will increase,but is that enough on its own---IMO they need a windfall like Medicare--someone who is going to cover it rather than just make it available....Id buy the test.I can afford it...but would the masses?

[When the bass drops]

No adversaries on this site, WTBD - mostly just passionate and caring posters attempting to share ideas, information and points of views to try and make the right investment decisions.

Wishing you good cheer and a lovely time with your family during the festive season.

Likewise Balance. I'll probably be still commenting here and there a few times, so not entirely gone yet :)

[When the bass drops]

Good one Pacific Edge

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/294175


Maybe that's where my $15k donation went towards - if so I'm excited as much as David is

Was always going to happen, as per previous company announcements. Shouldn't render much share price movement, neither should it.

[Minerbarejet]

Point taken about some getting stuck in their opinions--Thats why when some change their stance imo it should not be ridiculed--the company has to earn it though imo.

It appears to be a waiting game..so the question is how long can the clock tic for a result if there is one--(those cap raising do damage)
My concern is that in terms of uncertain policies (USA)..it could be awhile.
Im sure that customer numbers will increase,but is that enough on its own---IMO they need a windfall like Medicare--someone who is going to cover it rather than just make it available....Id buy the test.I can afford it...but would the masses?
Its a waiting game alright, Skid.
Clinical Validation is what it has all been about.
Being a gamechanger cxbladder has probably required more than usual.
Tides on the way in. IMHO

[Balance]

Its a waiting game alright, Skid.
Clinical Validation is what it has all been about.
Being a gamechanger cxbladder has probably required more than usual.
Tides on the way in. IMHO

But the tide was supposed to be already in - 2014 with 'tens of thousands of tests'?

What happened?

[trader_jackson]

But the tide was supposed to be already in - 2014 with 'tens of thousands of tests'?

What happened?

But they are doing tens of thousands of test? (despite being a bit behind where they probably envisioned, but not promised, they would be)

[trader_jackson]

Oh dear - market is not even reacting this time round to the 'good' news from PEB.

Oh for the days when such an announcement sent the sp rocketing upwards - egged on with 'tens of thousands' .

Maybe the bigger issue is about how much PEB needs to raise by way of yet another rights issue - and whether any underwriters can be found.

Market did actually react... now at 58 cents I see... jumping to conclusions on the share price way to fast?
Oh wait no it will be the underwriters supporting it again
(and only the underwriters - like they have for a year and a half)

[Balance]

But they are doing tens of thousands of test? (despite being a bit behind where they probably envisioned, but not promised, they would be)

Hope there are no fishermen waiting for the tide to bring in the fish to catch - families will be starving now with the 3 (three) years wait so far?

PEB's tide forecast is seriously way out.

Those 'tens of thousands' of fishes turned out to be hundreds of tiddlers stranded by the outgoing tide!

[Minerbarejet]

But the tide was supposed to be already in - 2014 with 'tens of thousands of tests'?

What happened?
PEB has had to overcome an underguesstimated amount of dissonance.
How could anyone tell exactly what the resistance might be to groundbreaking technology?
You could only guess at best.
The alleged optimism as reported by the ODT may well have been prevailing opinion back in 2014 however many of us have managed to move on from that by taking up brick wall bashing as a more pleasant and diversionary tactic as opposed to ploughing the same bit of dirt over and over.

[Balance]

PEB has had to overcome an underguesstimated amount of dissonance.
How could anyone tell exactly what the resistance might be to groundbreaking technology?
You could only guess at best.
The alleged optimism as reported by the ODT may well have been prevailing opinion back in 2014 however many of us have managed to move on from that by taking up brick wall bashing as a more pleasant and diversionary tactic as opposed to ploughing the same bit of dirt over and over.

I would actually tend to want to agree with you but for the fact that PEB continues to be evasive about giving real concrete data (eg. how many tests in total, how many fully paid and how many on deferred basis, the unsustainable high level of receivables) to allow investors to properly track against the consistently extremely-without-substantiation bullish and upbeat statements by directors and management.

It's one thing to get the timing of the tide wrong by at least 3 years, it is another to pretend that the projection was never made.

[artemis]

Unless PEB products are overtaken by better, cheaper or better funded, hard to see urologists or patients reverting to invasive tests after experiencing noninvasive. Which should mean that the number of tests will grow, and probably quite quickly once a degree of momentum is in play.

[Minerbarejet]

I would actually tend to want to agree with you but for the fact that PEB continues to be evasive about giving real concrete data (eg. how many tests in total, how many fully paid and how many on deferred basis, the unsustainable high level of receivables) to allow investors to properly track against the consistently extremely-without-substantiation bullish and upbeat statements by directors and management.

It's one thing to get the timing of the tide wrong by at least 3 years, it is another to pretend that the projection was never made.
Its one thing to have a misunderstanding surrounding a relatively minor issue that is obvious even to the untrained punter as a forwardlooking statement. Its another to take that issue and turn it into an all encompassing major defining moment that directors should be thrown to the lions for having the temerity to suggest it is a possibility.

Our Rachel had it right, " It wont happen overnight, but it will happen!"

By the way, heard she called Hillary after the election and said " You cant beat a Trump, pet.":)

[Balance]

Its one thing to have a misunderstanding surrounding a relatively minor issue that is obvious even to the untrained punter as a forwardlooking statement. Its another to take that issue and turn it into an all encompassing major defining moment that directors should be thrown to the lions for having the temerity to suggest it is a possibility.

Our Rachel had it right, " It wont happen overnight, but it will happen!"

By the way, heard she called Hillary after the election and said " You cant beat a Trump, pet.":)

Rakon and Wellington Drive told shareholders and the market the same thing - 'it will happen.'

[cammo]

WDT looking much healthier than the last 4-5 years minimum currently. Management sorting their sht out and they finally getting close ..... actually quite a good analogy to PEB really balance, for different reasons but similar just the same.

[Balance]

WDT looking much healthier than the last 4-5 years minimum currently. Management sorting their sht out and they finally getting close ..... actually quite a good analogy to PEB really balance, for different reasons but similar just the same.

Agreed.

Be a long long looooooong while (if ever) for those who bought into Ross Green's WDT story in the early 2000s to get their money back, let alone make a return on their investment. Share price was the equivalent of over $10.00 at one stage.

But good nevertheless to see WDT making progress.

PS. I sincerely hope PEB makes it too but I have grave reservations about the ability of the current management and board to do it.

[When the bass drops]

Agreed.

Be a long long looooooong while (if ever) for those who bought into Ross Green's WDT story in the early 2000s to get their money back, let alone make a return on their investment. Share price was the equivalent of over $10.00 at one stage.

But good nevertheless to see WDT making progress.

PS. I sincerely hope PEB makes it too but I have grave reservations about the ability of the current management and board to do it.

There is word from some quarters that DD should remain with the company but slip into a more technical role (he's a technical guy) and get a much more classic archetypal CEO. Things may occur quicker if this was to happen, yet even with the current setup it will still work but the wheels will turn slower.

[skid]

There is word from some quarters that DD should remain with the company but slip into a more technical role (he's a technical guy) and get a much more classic archetypal CEO. Things may occur quicker if this was to happen, yet even with the current setup it will still work but the wheels will turn slower.

Especially if he could do a deal with a high profile partner--We live in hope.....Hey I thought you were off for the Christmas break:)

[When the bass drops]

Especially if he could do a deal with a high profile partner--We live in hope.....Hey I thought you were off for the Christmas break:)

Couldn't stay away skid. Too much interesting stuff to mull over :cool:

[Snow Leopard]

I resolve to be optimistic about the latest CxBladder product launch (https://nzx.com/files/attachments/250227.pdf).

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Minerbarejet]

I resolve to be optimistic about the latest CxBladder product launch (https://nzx.com/files/attachments/250227.pdf).

Best Wishes
Paper TigerCould you be a bit more specific?

[Defater]

There is word from some quarters that DD should remain with the company but slip into a more technical role (he's a technical guy) and get a much more classic archetypal CEO. Things may occur quicker if this was to happen, yet even with the current setup it will still work but the wheels will turn slower.

WTBD can you explain or disclose your source of this comment regarding David Darling, sounds a bit slippery and out of kilter to me.. cheers.

[When the bass drops]

WTBD can you explain or disclose your source of this comment regarding David Darling, sounds a bit slippery and out of kilter to me.. cheers.

It was more of a personal thought from someone I know who invests in the share (like me) so I would be incorrect using the terminology "some quarters". I'm sorry about that. Though I don't doubt this is the thought of other investors or people who keenly follow PEB, because of the slower pace that the company has been ticking off its revenue goals, and signing up big commercial groups. I would have to agree with the person who shared this thought with me, so that's at least two people who agree with the notion.

A CEO or leadership group that negotiates more effectively with the transformational customers that have been identified could be the injection that the company needs to get out of 1st gear and into 3rd. A 'If-it-outperforms-what-you-have,-agree-to-pay-X-amount-of-the-tests' approach is critical at this point.

I'd like to qualify myself as a personal holder of PEB that wants them to succeed, and believes they will succeed, but thinks there should be a more aggressive (but still ethical) approach to negotiating sales deals with large clients, if the company is to hit near their $100m per year target.

[Minerbarejet]

It was more of a personal thought from someone I know who invests in the share (like me) so I would be incorrect using the terminology "some quarters". I'm sorry about that. Though I don't doubt this is the thought of other investors or people who keenly follow PEB, because of the slower pace that the company has been ticking off its revenue goals, and signing up big commercial groups. I would have to agree with the person who shared this thought with me, so that's at least two people who agree with the notion.

A CEO or leadership group that negotiates more effectively with the transformational customers that have been identified could be the injection that the company needs to get out of 1st gear and into 3rd. A 'If-it-outperforms-what-you-have,-agree-to-pay-X-amount-of-the-tests' approach is critical at this point.

I'd like to qualify myself as a personal holder of PEB that wants them to succeed, and believes they will succeed, but thinks there should be a more aggressive (but still ethical) approach to negotiating sales deals with large clients, if the company is to hit near their $100m per year target.
Peoples lives are at stake.
Clinical validation is therefore required.
Pacific Edge obviously didnt have enough and it has taken time to get this.
With the current batch of launchings, publications in journals and results of clinical trials I think we may well be getting close.
The latest news indicates that trials were carried out in the US which would certainly help in any validation.
All the negotiating skills in the world wont do diddly squat unless you have clinical validation, peer reviewed and published.

[skid]

Peoples lives are at stake.
Clinical validation is therefore required.
Pacific Edge obviously didnt have enough and it has taken time to get this.
With the current batch of launchings, publications in journals and results of clinical trials I think we may well be getting close.
The latest news indicates that trials were carried out in the US which would certainly help in any validation.
All the negotiating skills in the world wont do diddly squat unless you have clinical validation, peer reviewed and published.

Guess we'll see if thats enough Miner...or if the product still requires exemplary marketing and deal making skills for a system that is in limbo atm(US Medical)

Right now its just hyping up a very ordinary and somewhat disappointing sales report

[Defater]

So are you saying Skid that even though the US Medical system is in limbo at the moment if we change the marketing and deal making team or indeed the whole Pacific Edge Board we would see a sudden change in the growth of this company.

[skid]

So are you saying Skid that even though the US Medical system is in limbo at the moment if we change the marketing and deal making team or indeed the whole Pacific Edge Board we would see a sudden change in the growth of this company.

Im saying maybe Minors example is not enough,we shall see---The US medical system is in a state of uncertainty,and it appears cuts will be made--That may delay positive outcomes--And of course,if they had a marketing team that was able to negotiate a substantial deal,it would change the companies growth--finding a high profile company to partner with would also help IMO---My main point is that those deals dont make themselves,regardless of clinical validation(but of course it is better than not having it)--It could be good ammunition for a savvy negotiator.

[Minerbarejet]

Im saying maybe Minors example is not enough,we shall see---The US medical system is in a state of uncertainty,and it appears cuts will be made--That may delay positive outcomes--And of course,if they had a marketing team that was able to negotiate a substantial deal,it would change the companies growth--finding a high profile company to partner with would also help IMO---My main point is that those deals dont make themselves,regardless of clinical validation(but of course it is better than not having it)--It could be good ammunition for a savvy negotiator.
So what do we call the Kaiser Permanente clinical assessment then. Tiddly Winks?

[skid]

So what do we call the Kaiser Permanente clinical assessment then. Tiddly Winks?

Thats the ammunition I refered to--''but those deals dont make themselves,regardless of clinical validation--BUT OFCOURSE ITS BETTER THAN NOT HAVING IT ie-ammunition.

the difference in our opinion is that ,(from where Im sitting)you think clinical validation will be enough to achieve sales

and I think it will still take savvy negotiations-

[pierre]

Im saying maybe Minors example is not enough,we shall see---The US medical system is in a state of uncertainty,and it appears cuts will be made--That may delay positive outcomes--And of course,if they had a marketing team that was able to negotiate a substantial deal,it would change the companies growth--finding a high profile company to partner with would also help IMO---My main point is that those deals dont make themselves,regardless of clinical validation(but of course it is better than not having it)--It could be good ammunition for a savvy negotiator.

Surely, if cuts are to be made as you suggest - then clinicians and administrators will be looking for lower cost solutions to providing health care for patients. PEB would seem to fit that bill perfectly and has the added advantages of being more convenient and non-invasive. Not sure that a lot of negotiating skill is required to present those messages - but as Miner says clinical validation is essential.

[skid]

Surely, if cuts are to be made as you suggest - then clinicians and administrators will be looking for lower cost solutions to providing health care for patients. PEB would seem to fit that bill perfectly and has the added advantages of being more convenient and non-invasive. Not sure that a lot of negotiating skill is required to present those messages - but as Miner says clinical validation is essential.

This has been discussed before---what you say makes sense,maybe a bit further down the line when they get everything worked out with what they adopt to replace Obamacare and how they deal with medicare. Its looking like cuts at this stage.
The other issue is whether Urologists will resist changing to a urine test alone .
Its possible anything new will have alot of complications getting accepted,not because its not a good test and cheaper. Systems are sometimes ridiculously stupid,especially with change--might be something as frustrating as a cutback on staff at the medicare or other offices or running with the outfit that provides enough sweeteners--or possibly just getting beaten down on the price--or none of the above including sailing straight through and being accepted after all these years.

Id think though that they would be holding fire on many things until they knew better what is actually going to happen with the whole system.--There are probably alot more important things to be dealt with than a urine test at this stage....but who knows....all im saying is be prepared for it not being business as usual.

[Minerbarejet]

Thats the ammunition I refered to--''but those deals dont make themselves,regardless of clinical validation--BUT OFCOURSE ITS BETTER THAN NOT HAVING IT ie-ammunition.

the difference in our opinion is that ,(from where Im sitting)you think clinical validation will be enough to achieve sales

and I think it will still take savvy negotiations- The KP trial and clinical validation is a deal where KP has a user program to assess cxbladder for possible use in their not insignificant network.
On the successful conclusion of clinical validation they will eventually elect to either use the test or not once all the data is in. The savvy negotiations as you put it are in fact happening and have been all along with every User Program initiated.
The KP program turned out to be a much larger validation than the originally planned Triage as well, validating Detect and Resolve from each sample accounting for the extra time required.
Savvy negotiations? You betcha. Happening already and has been for some time

[Defater]

Skid I agree that this has been discussed before over and over again and I confer with most of your last post especially the last point, "be prepared for it not being business as usual". Once the paper work and trials have been completed "business will not be as it has been for Pacific Edge, it will be very different".

[pierre]

Id think though that they would be holding fire on many things until they knew better what is actually going to happen with the whole system.--There are probably alot more important things to be dealt with than a urine test at this stage....but who knows....all im saying is be prepared for it not being business as usual.

Frankly Skid, it will be great for PEB if it's NOT business as usual - BAU means continuing with expensive and invasive tests for bladder cancer.

I don't for one minute think the whole medical system is going to go on hold and that nobody in the USA will consider a proven, convenient, non-invasive test while Donald Trump decides what colour carpet he wants in the Oval office.

I guess you're looking at PEB's prospects as a glass half empty while I'm looking at one that's half-full. Just a matter of opinion really - and like a backside, we've all got one.

Meilleurs voeux
Pierre

[Minerbarejet]

Frankly Skid, it will be great for PEB if it's NOT business as usual - BAU means continuing with expensive and invasive tests for bladder cancer.

I don't for one minute think the whole medical system is going to go on hold and that nobody in the USA will consider a proven, convenient, non-invasive test while Donald Trump decides what colour carpet he wants in the Oval office.

I guess you're looking at PEB's prospects as a glass half empty while I'm looking at one that's half-full. Just a matter of opinion really - and like a backside, we've all got one.

Meilleurs voeux
PierreVery subtle, Pierre.:)

[Dentie]

I know why the yanks aren't falling over themselves (yet!) to get their hands on the CXBladder products' suite.

If DD & Co could somehow get the CXBladder specimen cup to look like a military weapon (and advertised as such) - PEB would not be able to keep up with the demand!!

(BTW, I used the term "military weapon" because I was too scared to use the "B" or "M" word on the internet). ;)

[Minerbarejet]

I know why the yanks aren't falling over themselves (yet!) to get their hands on the CXBladder products' suite.

If DD & Co could somehow get the CXBladder specimen cup to look like a military weapon (and advertised as such) - PEB would not be able to keep up with the demand!!

(BTW, I used the term "military weapon" because I was too scared to use the "B" or "M" word on the internet). ;)
Makes perfect sense, after all it is a pisstool.:)

[pierre]

Must be very disappointing for some on here to see the SP creeping up this week and closing at 60cents. Would have to be those pesky underwriters looking out for themselves again I guess.

[Dentie]

Makes perfect sense, after all it is a pisstool.:)

hahahaha..................why am I not surprised here Miner???.:t_up:

[When the bass drops]

Must be very disappointing for some on here to see the SP creeping up this week and closing at 60cents. Would have to be those pesky underwriters looking out for themselves again I guess.

Yep, its an outrage. Annual window-dressing at this time of the year following positive company announcements. I'll use Balance's emoji here for this :D but he does bring good evidence from the other side of the ledger (which garners my respect). Feeling festive. :cool:

[Balance]

Here's what Phaedrus said on this site almost 10 years ago about overhyped stocks on ST. Still holds true today.

Watch for a preponderance of overly loyal extremely positive contributions.
Any negative posters are "run off the thread".
When negative posters are accused of "downramping" you can be sure that all objectivity has been lost.
Beware of threads where anyone posting a negative comment is personally attacked.
Dissenting views should be encouraged, not rubbished. We learn nothing from those that agree with us.
Watch for comments on "ignorant" selling by institutions, techies etc - people that think they know better.

[Minerbarejet]

Here's what Phaedrus said on this site almost 10 years ago about overhyped stocks on ST. Still holds true today.

Watch for a preponderance of overly loyal extremely positive contributions.
Any negative posters are "run off the thread".
When negative posters are accused of "downramping" you can be sure that all objectivity has been lost.
Beware of threads where anyone posting a negative comment is personally attacked.
Dissenting views should be encouraged, not rubbished. We learn nothing from those that agree with us.
Watch for comments on "ignorant" selling by institutions, techies etc - people that think they know better.
30 years ago whenever shares were bought or sold the investor had to ring his broker for advice and to place the order. The order was usually based on the fundamentals of the company in question and any hyperbole was usually coming from the press or by word of mouth.
Nowadays we have input both positive and negative coming from all sorts of people in all walks of life over the internet instantaneously.
The resulting Pythonesque mix of conflicting statements provides high entertainment value for many.
This is why the PEB thread has been in existence for so long.
Its the cut and thrust, the banter, the kidding, the comings and goings, changes in attitudes and the need for a place to bounce ideas around that makes it appealing for some.
Dont think even Phaedrus could have envisioned 15000 + posts on PEB and still going 10 years later.

I still have my large bag of salt for anything too over the top either way.:)

[skid]

Either way?---Ive been on both sides of the debate at times----have you? (that brick wall has had a beating over time)

Certainly some are optimistic(170,000)--never argue with mr market .. 60c it is...:D

[Minerbarejet]

Either way?---Ive been on both sides of the debate at times----have you? (that brick wall has had a beating over time)

Certainly some are optimistic(170,000)--never argue with mr market .. 60c it is...:DWith good news and mortar come pointing towards success any further reinforcement will see the brick wall as having run its course.:)

[Balance]

With good news and mortar come pointing towards success any further reinforcement will see the brick wall as having run its course.:)

Looks like they rang the bell at the 60c? Out comes the sellers and one wonders why the buyers are not taking the opportunity to load up?

Just get ready for the rights issue to batter the brick wall - it may not happen immediately, but it will happen.

Say 1 for 3 at 30 cents this time round? :D :D :D

[When the bass drops]

Looks like they rang the bell at the 60c? Out comes the sellers and one wonders why the buyers are not taking the opportunity to load up?

Just get ready for the rights issue to batter the brick wall - it may not happen immediately, but it will happen.

Say 1 for 3 at 30 cents this time round? :D :D :D

I feel its likely there will be another capital raise, provided something significant doesn't happen by March 2017. As per the price, $0.50-0.55 seems a more likely range the company will go to the market at. But if its 30 cents, great for me as I'll be buying some more for sure.

I'm keen to see the next Edison, mainly just to see if their fair valuation has dropped towards $1. Previously $1.19 from memory. Its been exactly 6 months, and they're taking their sweet time. ;)

[skid]

I feel its likely there will be another capital raise, provided something significant doesn't happen by March 2017. As per the price, $0.50-0.55 seems a more likely range the company will go to the market at. But if its 30 cents, great for me as I'll be buying some more for sure.

I'm keen to see the next Edison, mainly just to see if their fair valuation has dropped towards $1. Previously $1.19 from memory. Its been exactly 6 months, and they're taking their sweet time. ;)

I guess by now many view Edison as light entertainment---remember the get hired to do valuations,so its a matter of if they are hired again. (long term contract?)

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?10333-Edison-Valuations

[Balance]

I guess by now many view Edison as light entertainment---remember the get hired to do valuations,so its a matter of if they are hired again. (long term contract?)

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?10333-Edison-Valuations

Most important point to note is that Edison's research on ANY company is not independent research.

It is research initiated by a company (which does not get institutional research) and paid for by the company. One can hardly expect Edison to be other than positive and flattering about the company.

Notice how negative developments are always written up by Edison as short term setbacks?

Having said all that - Edison's research can be useful as their research on a company reflects the company's own view of what it is about and its forecasts. Wildly optimistic (as they always are), they still provide some guidance and can be helpful.

[youngatheart]

PEB are getting left behind...
https://futurism.com/a-new-device-can-diagnose-disease-by-analyzing-your-breath/
What's easier? Peeing in a test tube to test for 1 cancer or breathe into a device that can test up to 17 diseases (including Bladder Cancer)?
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acsnano.6b04930

[When the bass drops]

PEB are getting left behind...
https://futurism.com/a-new-device-can-diagnose-disease-by-analyzing-your-breath/
What's easier? Peeing in a test tube to test for 1 cancer or breathe into a device that can test up to 17 diseases (including Bladder Cancer)?
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acsnano.6b04930

They're probably a longer term threat to PEB. That, a 100% accurate test or a cure for cancer.

[Minerbarejet]

This could well be a very helpful new technology however I think there might be a problem in obtaining samples in an everyday environment.
The equivalent in PEBs case would involve the patient being required to travel to Dunedin or Hummelstown to pee into the machine for analysis.

This could well be considered inconvenient and expensive as well as a tad insanitary.

[skid]

Guess it depends on how much the machine costs.They did say it was portable as well.
It would have to be compared to other medical equipment for an average hospital.
Id be surprised if they had'nt worked out the issue in term of sanitation (when you look at what they have accomplished)

Its probably a future consideration (but that may still affect long term contract decisions)

On another subject---Its looking like they will waist no time dismantling Obamacare..but replacing it will take some time.

[Balance]

Guess it depends on how much the machine costs.They did say it was portable as well.
It would have to be compared to other medical equipment for an average hospital.
Id be surprised if they had'nt worked out the issue in term of sanitation (when you look at what they have accomplished)

Its probably a future consideration (but that may still affect long term contract decisions)

On another subject---Its looking like they will waist no time dismantling Obamacare..but replacing it will take some time.

So if Obamacare was (according to PEB) a great opportunity for PEB, that opportunity is dissipating?

[Minerbarejet]

I suppose the whole process could be considered breathtakingly expensive.

[Minerbarejet]

Get the salt cellars out boys.
ODT is at it again
https://www.odt.co.nz/business/repeal-plan-risk-pacific-edge

Even a minimum of research will show this to contain misinformation, as usual.
Here are a couple of links if anyone is interested in comparing notes.

http://www.gilead.com/about

https://www.shire.com/

Neither of these appear to be competition as far as pipelines go.
They are more into drugs rather than diagnostics.

Very poorly researched article based on very poorly researched comments IMHO

The rest is basically a regurgitation of known facts.

[Balance]

Get the salt cellars out boys.
ODT is at it again
https://www.odt.co.nz/business/repeal-plan-risk-pacific-edge


Oops - broker effectively telling their clients to get out.

"The Dunedin company risked having its technology and products superseded by a better form of diagnostic tool, he said.

Another concern for Pacific Edge investors was the likelihood of further capital raising. The company burned through about $15million in cash a year and the latest balance sheet showed cash and reserves of about $14million.

The company had a target of $100million in revenue by 2019 but was well behind in delivering on that goal.

''For them to really gain traction, they have to prove a significant uplift in revenue while maintaining costs. If they go back to shareholders to raise capital, which is a distinct possibility, there will be some resistance."

[skid]

So if Obamacare was (according to PEB) a great opportunity for PEB, that opportunity is dissipating?

I think the big danger is many things being put on hold until the dust settles--Some even say the Medicare(as we know it) is under threat--those Republicans sure dont care about everyday people--They imo are a heartless bunch.
what they replace it with? Who knows ,it may be better,but thats still painful if it means long delays.--Guess we will know more in the next months.

[Balance]

I think the big danger is many things being put on hold until the dust settles--Some even say the Medicare(as we know it) is under threat--those Republicans sure dont care about everyday people--They imo are a heartless bunch.
what they replace it with? Who knows ,it may be better,but thats still painful if it means long delays.--Guess we will know more in the next months.

Means a heavily discounted capital raising now inevitable.

[skid]

PS.--just looking through the wifes feeds on FB (shes interested in health) Wow! cancer is already cured! just eat this ,or that (about 10 choices) gotta love it....(Ive also seen enough kitty cat videos to last the rest of the year!):)

[drcjp]

This is something I know a little bit about. And Obamacare does nothing for diagnostics - clinical data does. I don't know what that broker is on about. And that is an area (clin data) that PEB seem to be a little bit lacking in. They are getting much better and it is coming, but they need to show 1) efficacy and accuracy compared with current best practice ie. scopes etc. I know they have done some work on this but 2) they need a multi-centre, multi-disease status trial , split into two groups that pay attention or ignore the PEB results and then calculate outcomes up to two years after the last participant is enrolled. If the BladderCx or whatever outperforms, or at least adds significant improvement, to current clinical practice, then they cannot be ignored for much longer.

However, the biggest hurdle is the urologists themselves. They WILL NOT change practice from charging USD$1100 per scope to a test that is just as good but they only receive $200 at best. Yes, its all about the money (a very close second after the patient) for them. PEB need to change their business model based on the above study(s) and promote their tests as an adjunctive that costs USD$150 (MAXIMUM) on top of the scope. Volumes will then come their way as the urologists are happy, PEB is happy and revenue will go through the roof. This is precisely what Paul Ridker and colleagues achieved with CRP measurements and statins some years ago.

They also need to think of off-label use. What happens to the BladderCx or other markers in acute kidney injury? Diabetic TII whom seroconvert to TI? Pancreatic cancer sufferers? Long shots maybe but need to look to expand indications. Its what Shire, Gilead, Roche, Siemens, Abbott, Quest etc. do all the time.

[When the bass drops]

Get the salt cellars out boys.
ODT is at it again
https://www.odt.co.nz/business/repeal-plan-risk-pacific-edge

Even a minimum of research will show this to contain misinformation, as usual.
Here are a couple of links if anyone is interested in comparing notes.

http://www.gilead.com/about

https://www.shire.com/

Neither of these appear to be competition as far as pipelines go.
They are more into drugs rather than diagnostics.

Very poorly researched article based on very poorly researched comments IMHO

The rest is basically a regurgitation of known facts.

I agree with you. Not the best article research-wise. We'll leave it up to investors in how they respond, though I would think its foolish for an investor to emotionally react to what one broker has said by selling their stake. Another cap raising (and I've been consistent on this) is a real possibility, which I agree with Balance on.

[Balance]

I agree with you. Not the best article research-wise. We'll leave it up to investors in how they respond, though I would think its foolish for an investor to emotionally react to what one broker has said by selling their stake. Another cap raising (and I've been consistent on this) is a real possibility, which I agree with Balance on.

But fantastic and not foolish many investors reacted emotionally to what PEB and directors say, especially the millions of tests opportunities, the watch my lips 'no more capital raising' and of course, the infamous 2014 several tens of ......?

[skid]

This is something I know a little bit about. And Obamacare does nothing for diagnostics - clinical data does. I don't know what that broker is on about. And that is an area (clin data) that PEB seem to be a little bit lacking in. They are getting much better and it is coming, but they need to show 1) efficacy and accuracy compared with current best practice ie. scopes etc. I know they have done some work on this but 2) they need a multi-centre, multi-disease status trial , split into two groups that pay attention or ignore the PEB results and then calculate outcomes up to two years after the last participant is enrolled. If the BladderCx or whatever outperforms, or at least adds significant improvement, to current clinical practice, then they cannot be ignored for much longer.

However, the biggest hurdle is the urologists themselves. They WILL NOT change practice from charging USD$1100 per scope to a test that is just as good but they only receive $200 at best. Yes, its all about the money (a very close second after the patient) for them. PEB need to change their business model based on the above study(s) and promote their tests as an adjunctive that costs USD$150 (MAXIMUM) on top of the scope. Volumes will then come their way as the urologists are happy, PEB is happy and revenue will go through the roof. This is precisely what Paul Ridker and colleagues achieved with CRP measurements and statins some years ago.

They also need to think of off-label use. What happens to the BladderCx or other markers in acute kidney injury? Diabetic TII whom seroconvert to TI? Pancreatic cancer sufferers? Long shots maybe but need to look to expand indications. Its what Shire, Gilead, Roche, Siemens, Abbott, Quest etc. do all the time.

Very good points drcjp--especially the fact you have included possible avenues of pursuit

I read an article the other day stating that the US has the highest per ca pita expense on health care ,with some of the worst results .Alot are making alot of dosh ,but the public is getting pretty lousy service. Thats what you get when the Gov. lets the free market rule all.
Its no wonder Doctors are conservative -who wants to rock the boat on that kind of lifestyle.

[When the bass drops]

But fantastic and not foolish many investors reacted emotionally to what PEB and directors say, especially the millions of tests opportunities, the watch my lips 'no more capital raising' and of course, the infamous 2014 several tens of ......?

A lot of the institutional investors (and private with a sizeable stake) originally would have seen the potential of PEB and, although speculative, would have bought in having done their own research. Noone is foolish for having bought into the stock, in my view. I don't doubt many of the upbeat claims were a catalyst to some of those who bought in. What I am arguing is, having bought in, why sell out based on the view of a Craig's broker. Why sell out impulsively if you are currently sitting on a paper loss, as some may be. I'm of the view, and many of those who follow the stock, that it's not a question of solvency/failure with this stock, but rather how far out of whack they are with achieving their objectives (which I believe they will achieve in the passage of time).

If all or a large chunk of the insto's all of a sudden became of the view that PEB was a black hole, they would sell out and run for the hills for the sake of their investors (and investing principles). The insto's en masse are just not doing this.

All power to them if an insto or private investor wanted to drop the stock and run. Whatever.

Just a view.

[barney]

I wouldn't panic just yet.
http://fortune.com/2016/11/30/health-industry-calm-donald-trump-obamacare-threats/

[Dentie]

....What I am arguing is, having bought in, why sell out based on the view of a Craig's broker....

Why indeed!!!........

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/79563368/fma-warns-craigs-investment-partners-over-breach-of-antimoney-laundering-rules

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/69024735/craigs-investment-partners-fined-30k-for-nzx-breach

http://*************nz.blogspot.co.nz/2011/05/craigs-investment-partners-picks-top.html

[Minerbarejet]

This is something I know a little bit about. And Obamacare does nothing for diagnostics - clinical data does. I don't know what that broker is on about. And that is an area (clin data) that PEB seem to be a little bit lacking in. They are getting much better and it is coming, but they need to show 1) efficacy and accuracy compared with current best practice ie. scopes etc. I know they have done some work on this but 2) they need a multi-centre, multi-disease status trial , split into two groups that pay attention or ignore the PEB results and then calculate outcomes up to two years after the last participant is enrolled. If the BladderCx or whatever outperforms, or at least adds significant improvement, to current clinical practice, then they cannot be ignored for much longer.

However, the biggest hurdle is the urologists themselves. They WILL NOT change practice from charging USD$1100 per scope to a test that is just as good but they only receive $200 at best. Yes, its all about the money (a very close second after the patient) for them. PEB need to change their business model based on the above study(s) and promote their tests as an adjunctive that costs USD$150 (MAXIMUM) on top of the scope. Volumes will then come their way as the urologists are happy, PEB is happy and revenue will go through the roof. This is precisely what Paul Ridker and colleagues achieved with CRP measurements and statins some years ago.

They also need to think of off-label use. What happens to the BladderCx or other markers in acute kidney injury? Diabetic TII whom seroconvert to TI? Pancreatic cancer sufferers? Long shots maybe but need to look to expand indications. Its what Shire, Gilead, Roche, Siemens, Abbott, Quest etc. do all the time.
Some interesting comments there drcjp.
As far as clinical trials go Kaiser Permanente have concluded a multi centre, blinded 2000 patient clinical trial on cxbladder Triage, Detect and Resolve in the United States. The results were in keeping with PEBs predictions and all that remains is for KP to verify and decide where, when and if they are going to use it.
With a cxbladder Triage test the original assessment of someone presenting with blood in the urine is done at the physician level, not the urologist. A positive result will require an urologists assessment via cystoscopy.
Canterbury District Health Board is currently assessing Triage as a replacement for the cytology test which is currently in their clinical pathway for this disease.
Waitemata has taken Monitor on board as the preferred test for monitoring low risk patients.
Both those are world firsts that will not go unnoticed.
So as you can see from that things are already well down the road with clinical trials and validity as well as having the jump on the urologists with Triage at the Primary Doctor level.

[Balance]

This is something I know a little bit about. And Obamacare does nothing for diagnostics - clinical data does. I don't know what that broker is on about. And that is an area (clin data) that PEB seem to be a little bit lacking in. They are getting much better and it is coming, but they need to show 1) efficacy and accuracy compared with current best practice ie. scopes etc. I know they have done some work on this but 2) they need a multi-centre, multi-disease status trial , split into two groups that pay attention or ignore the PEB results and then calculate outcomes up to two years after the last participant is enrolled. If the BladderCx or whatever outperforms, or at least adds significant improvement, to current clinical practice, then they cannot be ignored for much longer.

However, the biggest hurdle is the urologists themselves. They WILL NOT change practice from charging USD$1100 per scope to a test that is just as good but they only receive $200 at best. Yes, its all about the money (a very close second after the patient) for them. PEB need to change their business model based on the above study(s) and promote their tests as an adjunctive that costs USD$150 (MAXIMUM) on top of the scope. Volumes will then come their way as the urologists are happy, PEB is happy and revenue will go through the roof. This is precisely what Paul Ridker and colleagues achieved with CRP measurements and statins some years ago.

They also need to think of off-label use. What happens to the BladderCx or other markers in acute kidney injury? Diabetic TII whom seroconvert to TI? Pancreatic cancer sufferers? Long shots maybe but need to look to expand indications. Its what Shire, Gilead, Roche, Siemens, Abbott, Quest etc. do all the time.


http://urotoday.com/recent-abstracts/urologic-oncology/bladder-cancer/93133-bladder-cancer-biomarkers-optimal-utilization-for-diagnosis-and-recurrence-everyday-urology-full-text-article.html

"The pipeline for urinary bladder cancer markers is extensive."

"In summary, urinary markers allow for more accurate bladder cancer detection, but this gain is offset by moderately high rates of false positives.

For now, these tests are best used to arbitrate atypical cytology results, assess BCG response, and guide post-BCG follow-up.

Their costs and performance need more study before they are used for routine hematuria evaluation, cancer surveillance, or upper urinary tract monitoring.

Profiling tests in the pipeline exciting, but will need further validation before entering routine urology practice."

Dr. Badrinath Konety is professor and chair at the University of Minnesota, where he holds the Dougherty Family Chair in Uro-Oncology and is Director of the Institute for Prostate and Urologic Cancers.

[Minerbarejet]

http://urotoday.com/recent-abstracts/urologic-oncology/bladder-cancer/93133-bladder-cancer-biomarkers-optimal-utilization-for-diagnosis-and-recurrence-everyday-urology-full-text-article.html

"The pipeline for urinary bladder cancer markers is extensive."

"In summary, urinary markers allow for more accurate bladder cancer detection, but this gain is offset by moderately high rates of false positives.

For now, these tests are best used to arbitrate atypical cytology results, assess BCG response, and guide post-BCG follow-up.

Their costs and performance need more study before they are used for routine hematuria evaluation, cancer surveillance, or upper urinary tract monitoring.

Profiling tests in the pipeline exciting, but will need further validation before entering routine urology practice."

Dr. Badrinath Konety is professor and chair at the University of Minnesota, where he holds the Dougherty Family Chair in Uro-Oncology and is Director of the Institute for Prostate and Urologic Cancers.
The list of references at the bottom from which the article is constructed have no later dates than 2014.
Do try and keep up. :)

[davflaws]

The list of references at the bottom from which the article is constructed have no later dates than 2014.
Do try and keep up. :)
Play nicely now, or someone will be going to the naughty corner!

[Balance]

The list of references at the bottom from which the article is constructed have no later dates than 2014.
Do try and keep up. :)

Hmmm - me thinkth in your haste to disprove (rather than objectively take the comments from an industry expert to evaluate the challenges* companies like PEB using markers face), you shot yourself in both feet?

Shot #1:

5. Chang SS, Boorjian SA, Chou R1, et al. Diagnosis and treatment of non-muscle invasive bladder cancer: AUA/SUO guideline. J Urol. 2016;196(4):1021-1029.

Shot #2 :

* Challenges are there to be overcome with a complete understanding of the issues holding up adoption of markers. Dr Konety presented some key issues (which have not gone away after years of biomarkers being touted as replacement for cytology which the industry need to overcome.

Here's hoping industry players read his comments in the spirit he wrote it which is to highlight industry issues, rather than dismiss it - without reading it objectively and properly.

As-salāmu ʿalaykum :D

[Minerbarejet]

Hmmm - me thinkth in your haste to disprove (rather than objectively take the comments from an industry expert to evaluate the challenges* companies like PEB using markers face), you shot yourself in both feet?

Shot #1:

5. Chang SS, Boorjian SA, Chou R1, et al. Diagnosis and treatment of non-muscle invasive bladder cancer: AUA/SUO guideline. J Urol. 2016;196(4):1021-1029.

Shot #2 :

* Challenges are there to be overcome with a complete understanding of the issues holding up adoption of markers. Dr Konety presented some key issues (which have not gone away after years of biomarkers being touted as replacement for cytology which the industry need to overcome. Here's hoping industry players read his comments in the spirit he wrote it, rather than dismiss it - without reading it properly. :D
Would you take 15 out of 16?
If not then I will have to admit to all concerned that I was wrong in the initial evaluation.
HOWEVER, it is still using outdated material now that Monitor has been accepted and published online in December whereas the only 2016 reference was online in June and published in October. Methinks a lot of water passeth under the pontoon since.
Do wish they would keep up.
:)

And peace onto you as well.:)

[Balance]

http://seekingalpha.com/news/3233356-oncocyte-provides-updated-timelines-diagnostic-test-development-commercialization-plans

Still the pipeline of other tests continue to grow from other players.

Meanwhile, that $14.6m cash as at 30 Sept 2016 must be down to around $9m - enough for another 6 months of operation before ....?

A very positive announcement which will deliver cash flow from sales better come out soon or else, tick ...tick .... tick....

[Balance]

HOWEVER, it is still using outdated material now that Monitor has been accepted and published online in December whereas the only 2016 reference was online in June and published in October. Methinks a lot of water passeth under the pontoon since.


As Trump would say, by who? :D

[Dentie]

http://seekingalpha.com/news/3233356-oncocyte-provides-updated-timelines-diagnostic-test-development-commercialization-plans

Still the pipeline of other tests continue to grow from other players.

Meanwhile, that $14.6m cash as at 30 Sept 2016 must be down to around $9m - enough for another 6 months of operation before ....?

A very positive announcement which will deliver cash flow from sales better come out soon or else, tick ...tick .... tick....

With the proven accuracy that the SUITE of CXBladder tests already provides, the "iterative bureaucratic/administrational" time & distance that is required to travel (and how much of that PEB has already travelled), the agreements and understandings which PEB already has in place etc etc etc...... one can only wonder why these "other players" even bother trying to duplicate what PEB has already created - spending millions in the process.

Unless of course, the yankee urologists, CMS etc have been dragging their feet on purpose. Remember Trump wants to use yankee firms to service the yankee market (he probably said that while he was in Russia...)

[Balance]

With the proven accuracy that the SUITE of CXBladder tests already provides, the "iterative bureaucratic/administrational" time & distance that is required to travel (and how much of that PEB has already travelled), the agreements and understandings which PEB already has in place etc etc etc...... one can only wonder why these "other players" even bother trying to duplicate what PEB has already created - spending millions in the process.


There's always a better mouse trap - it is the name of the game with all technologies, be them IT, Bio or BioMed.

Otherwise we will all still be very happy with CRT TVs.

[Balance]

There's always a better mouse trap - it is the name of the game with all technologies, be them IT, Bio or BioMed.

Otherwise we will all still be very happy with CRT TVs.


http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/Cancer-Screening-Costs-887B-Annually-New-Tool-Reduces-Invasiveness-20170116

And they keep coming.

Strange that PEB thinks it has the best test but NOT the rest of the industry.

[When the bass drops]

http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgeeks/article/Cancer-Screening-Costs-887B-Annually-New-Tool-Reduces-Invasiveness-20170116

And they keep coming.

Strange that PEB thinks it has the best test but NOT the rest of the industry.

I don't doubt there is competition out there catching up with the likes of Cxbladder or others that have gained a profile. I would be naïve to think otherwise.
However I do agree with much of the statements in Dentie's last post above. It's progress by a thousand iterations with these products. Will NuView get a freer and red-tape free ride just because of a Trump brand of Presidency?

NuView:
* Do they have a suite of products that target different facets of the bladder cancer cycle in patients, or are they casting their net wide and servicing a variety of cancers?
* Where the test imitates what Cxbladder does, how accurate are they in comparison? We need numbers.
* Where are they in their life cycle?
* Who are their targeted customers? Have they put their test through clinical trials? How good are their negotiators?

Bladder cancer detection tools is PEB's thing. Even when PEB starts to become successful, there will always be other tests breathing down their neck, but I don't think there is any immediate competition that has had to jump the hoops and penetrate some of the inertia in the US system like PEB has experienced.

[skid]

I don't doubt there is competition out there catching up with the likes of Cxbladder or others that have gained a profile. I would be naïve to think otherwise.
However I do agree with much of the statements in Dentie's last post above. It's progress by a thousand iterations with these products. Will NuView get a freer and red-tape free ride just because of a Trump brand of Presidency?

NuView:
* Do they have a suite of products that target different facets of the bladder cancer cycle in patients, or are they casting their net wide and servicing a variety of cancers?
* Where the test imitates what Cxbladder does, how accurate are they in comparison? We need numbers.
* Where are they in their life cycle?
* Who are their targeted customers? Have they put their test through clinical trials? How good are their negotiators?

Bladder cancer detection tools is PEB's thing. Even when PEB starts to become successful, there will always be other tests breathing down their neck, but I don't think there is any immediate competition that has had to jump the hoops and penetrate some of the inertia in the US system like PEB has experienced.

I would be most concerned(in terms of competition) with the potential of the breath test that shows a whole variety of cancers--If they get this right it could be a ''one stop shop''

[pierre]

This thread is populated with Balance's opinions and balanced opinions.

Guess we just have to decide which ones we agree with.

As the man with the wooden leg said -" it's all a matter of a pinion".

[Minerbarejet]

This thread is populated with Balance's opinions and balanced opinions.

Guess we just have to decide which ones we agree with.

As the man with the wooden leg said -" it's all a matter of a pinion".
So all we need now is a rack and we can steer this thread in the right direction. Piece of cake.

[skid]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-health-care-stocks-arent-moving-after-president-trumps-obamacare-executive-order-2017-01-23

[Balance]

https://www.urotoday.com/recent-abstracts/urologic-oncology/bladder-cancer/93429-anticipatory-positive-urine-tests-for-bladder-cancer.html

Conclusion : "Urine-based tests for bladder cancer are frequently falsely positive. With further follow-up time, some of these false positive tests are vindicated as true (anticipatory) positive tests, although many will remain false positives".

Shares being quietly sold down (now 51c) ahead of announcement of capital raising?

[Grunter]

https://www.urotoday.com/recent-abstracts/urologic-oncology/bladder-cancer/93429-anticipatory-positive-urine-tests-for-bladder-cancer.html

Conclusion : "Urine-based tests for bladder cancer are frequently falsely positive. With further follow-up time, some of these false positive tests are vindicated as true (anticipatory) positive tests, although many will remain false positives".

Shares being quietly sold down (now 51c) ahead of announcement of capital raising?

That study was conducted with a product from another Company unrelated to Pacific Edge.

You really do love to try and bury this company at any opportunity don't you. Are you short PEB?

*block list*

[Biscuit]

That study was conducted with a product from another Company unrelated to Pacific Edge.



I guess being anticipatory would be a good thing. All assays have false positives.

[pierre]

Shares being quietly sold down (now 51c) ahead of announcement of capital raising?

No they aren't (now 52c)

[Minerbarejet]

https://www.urotoday.com/recent-abstracts/urologic-oncology/bladder-cancer/93429-anticipatory-positive-urine-tests-for-bladder-cancer.html

Conclusion : "Urine-based tests for bladder cancer are frequently falsely positive. With further follow-up time, some of these false positive tests are vindicated as true (anticipatory) positive tests, although many will remain false positives".

Shares being quietly sold down (now 51c) ahead of announcement of capital raising?
Presumably they will update this anticipatory model data based on Fish and cytology after using cxbladder for 9 years as well.

[Balance]

Presumably they will update this anticipatory model data based on Fish and cytology after using cxbladder for 9 years as well.

If CxBladder and PEB are still around at that time.

[Minerbarejet]

If CxBladder and PEB are still around at that time.

You worry too much.

[Balance]

You worry too much.

Think they will get the next capital raising away? Clock is ticking like crazy and the highly paid US executives (salespeople actually) are running out of entertainment funds? Doctors can only stock so many free tests.

[Minerbarejet]

Think they will get the next capital raising away? Clock is ticking like crazy and the highly paid US executives (salespeople actually) are running out of entertainment funds? Doctors can only stock so many free tests.A. Yes, if needed.

B. Clocks do not click any faster or slower regardless of PEB input.
Suggest you check to see if this is a windup.

C. There are no free tests.
And to clarify doctors could only utilise Triage anyway.
Amen

[Balance]

A. Yes, if needed.

B. Clocks do not click any faster or slower regardless of PEB input.
Suggest you check to see if this is a windup.

C. There are no free tests.
And to clarify doctors could only utilise Triage anyway.
Amen

A. It will definitely be needed. Question then is at what price. 2 for 1 at 15c?

B. You have heard of Einstein's simple explanation of relativity of time? A minute spent on a hot stove feels like 1 hour but an hour with a lovely companion feels like 5 minutes?

C. Of course there are free tests. Fact is that PEB has been giving them away when promoting the tests - you may care to check with PEB. I did 3 years ago with one of their senior executives in Auckland. You may be interested that I have actually talked with PEB directly several times in the exciting times a few years ago when PEB was making all those breathtakingly bullish announcements. Remember the 'several tens of thousands ..."

D. Last announcement from PEB was 15th Dec. For a company which loved flooding the market with good news, a month plus is a long time so holders better hope the next announcement is a fantastic one.

[Minerbarejet]

Item D
From the Pacific Edge website news

Last announcement 2013 Dec 20th
First announcement 2014 Jan 29th

Last announcement 2014 Dec 8th
First announcement 2015 Feb 24th

Last announcement 2015 Dec 24th
First announcement 2016 Feb 11th

Last announcement 2016 Dec 15th
First announcement 2017 TBA

For the last three holiday seasons announcements have dried up prior to Christmas and returned from late January to late February.

And you are trying to make something out of that?

[Balance]

For the last three holiday seasons announcements have dried up prior to Christmas and returned from late January to late February.

And you are trying to make something out of that?

Fair enough point, MBJ.

My point really is that PEB has announced so many 'initiatives' in the last 2 years (new products, ever more user programs, US staff hire etc) that there must surely be plenty of pent up developments and progress so reasonable to expect a few announcements.

The rest of the world do not shut down almost completely like NZ or Australia during the Christmas/New Year period.

Meanwhile, sp has fallen by 13.6% in 2017 so far - ominous for a capital raising. The underwriters who had to swallow something like 60% of the last capital raising (and who have continued to suck the lemon by buying more to support the sp) are being approached in the background to gauge their eagerness to suck on a hot kumara?

[Minerbarejet]

Fair enough point, MBJ.

My point really is that PEB has announced so many 'initiatives' in the last 2 years (new products, ever more user programs, US staff hire etc) that there must surely be plenty of pent up developments and progress so reasonable to expect a few announcements.

The rest of the world do not shut down almost completely like NZ or Australia during the Christmas/New Year period.

Meanwhile, sp has fallen by 13.6% in 2017 so far - ominous for a capital raising. The underwriters who had to swallow something like 60% of the last capital raising (and who have continued to suck the lemon by buying more to support the sp) are being approached in the background to gauge their eagerness to suck on a hot kumara?
The problem we have is that we cant see into the future and as in any wellrun company there are minimal leaks to gain any insight. As you say it is reasonable to expect announcements but the world is completely focussed on political developments in the US and all the shoving and pushing that is involved.
I cant see Pacific Edge being able to avoid getting caught up in the Medicare bunfight but at least with all the funds being diverted from useless US government activities they might end up getting their receivables paid at the very least. Regardless of whats happening in the political arena patients are still getting bladder cancer and requiring treatment. Pacific Edge can assist with diagnosis and follow up monitoring if needed.

[skid]

The problem we have is that we cant see into the future and as in any wellrun company there are minimal leaks to gain any insight. As you say it is reasonable to expect announcements but the world is completely focussed on political developments in the US and all the shoving and pushing that is involved.
I cant see Pacific Edge being able to avoid getting caught up in the Medicare bunfight but at least with all the funds being diverted from useless US government activities they might end up getting their receivables paid at the very least. Regardless of whats happening in the political arena patients are still getting bladder cancer and requiring treatment. Pacific Edge can assist with diagnosis and follow up monitoring if needed.

Its not a matter of patients still getting bladder cancer--its a matter of the funds to pay for it---women are still getting unwanted pregnancies but no more funds for that or family planning(even though abortions actually go up--just more unsafe ones happening)
so all those potential test customers who are not covered by work insurance ,just may miss out.
Its looking at this stage that the new Gov. is actually capable of doing things pretty callously or even just in spite. (In the photo of Trump signing the cut in funding for family planning, check out Steve Bannons face---looks pretty close to a smirk to me)----This healthcare situation looks personal (against Obama)to me at this stage. Is this a vendetta at the expense of healthcare?

Man...What were they thinking over there? Actually Im thinking the whole election was a vendetta ,more to get back at a number of things(establishment/Hillary) than common sense........Expect anything as long as it makes no sense ,or at least is not well thought out.

At least the Share Market (Dow) is still clipping along--at least until the big Trump statue starts to crumble.

On a global scale,Is there a more disliked person?---guess the big question is will the GOP come up with some alternative health package any time soon..or will limbo continue.

[Minerbarejet]

http://www.cxbladder.com/us/patient-resources/billing-policy/

[janner]

Having been into PEB at the start of the euphoria.. Sold at a lose..

Can you not find a more upward company to invest in ??. They have your money.. They will still have the buyers money if you sell..

Sorry MBJ. I can not understand as to why you would persist holding this one when you could be better utilizing your monies else where.

Of course it may turn into another Apple..

I am guilty of holding on for to long.. As are most of us.. Just curious :-)))

[Minerbarejet]

Ah yes, but what would be deemed "too long" in Pacific Edge's case. It is a biotech after all and the realisation that abounds here, there and everywhere is that it takes a lot longer time to develop these innovative companies like Pacific Edge than was originally thought.
I remain a shareholder due to the amount of study on my part plus the effort, research, discussions here and on other sites, PMs and support of others involved.

[skid]

http://www.cxbladder.com/us/patient-resources/billing-policy/

Of course they will accept payment from insurance cos (upper middle class) and Medicare---I will also accept checks for my witty ,helpful remarks.But so far im having trouble getting you guys to sign a contract to do so...Cmon get with it!..(you may register at wwwskidmark .com)

[skid]

Ah yes, but what would be deemed "too long" in Pacific Edge's case. It is a biotech after all and the realisation that abounds here, there and everywhere is that it takes a lot longer time to develop these innovative companies like Pacific Edge than was originally thought.
I remain a shareholder due to the amount of study on my part plus the effort, research, discussions here and on other sites, PMs and support of others involved.

Good on Ya! We support you all the way---Good someones got the moral high ground! (cause it sure aint those pulling the strings on the future of Medicare)

[Minerbarejet]

Of course they will accept payment from insurance cos (upper middle class) and Medicare---I will also accept checks for my witty ,helpful remarks.But so far im having trouble getting you guys to sign a contract to do so...Cmon get with it!..(you may register at wwwskidmark .com)
In case you didnt get down that far.

Patient Financial Assistance

Pacific Edge is committed to ensure that all patients have access to Cxbladder, regardless of financial circumstances. Programs for patients with specific financial needs are available. Patients should contact the Pacific Edge Billing Department at 1-855-CXBLADR (1-855-292-5237) to determine eligibility.
Uninsured Patient Assistant Program

Call Pacific Edge Billing Department to determine eligibility for uninsured patient assistance: 1-855-CXBLADR (1-855-292-5237)

[skid]

In case you didnt get down that far.

Patient Financial Assistance

Pacific Edge is committed to ensure that all patients have access to Cxbladder, regardless of financial circumstances. Programs for patients with specific financial needs are available. Patients should contact the Pacific Edge Billing Department at 1-855-CXBLADR (1-855-292-5237) to determine eligibility.
Uninsured Patient Assistant Program

Call Pacific Edge Billing Department to determine eligibility for uninsured patient assistance: 1-855-CXBLADR (1-855-292-5237)

Man,its worse than I thought.....infomercials next?

[Minerbarejet]

Man,its worse than I thought.....infomercials next?

Keep up, skid
They are on youtube - been there for years

[skid]

Keep up, skid
They are on youtube - been there for years

You have missed the point

[Minerbarejet]

You have missed the pointBeats missing the boat.

[Balance]

Keep up, skid
They are on youtube - been there for years

Exactly. :D

[skid]

Beats missing the boat.

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=sinking+ship&rlz=1C1PRFB_enNZ512NZ535&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=670&tbm=isch&imgil=fjgOebMiCKbKxM%253A%253BF1bV7MwMLnUhwM%253Bh ttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fhumansatsea.com%25252F201 6%25252F09%25252F18%25252Fescape-sinking-ship%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=fjgOebMiCKbKxM%253A%252CF1bV7MwMLnUhwM%252C_&usg=___CY-6k-xZB4b1rUvOM6Fsnfciok%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj3ttrmufDRAhWBvJQKHSG4AfIQyjcIIw&ei=6aSSWLeeCYH50gSh8IaQDw#imgrc=fjgOebMiCKbKxM:

[Minerbarejet]

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=sinking+ship&rlz=1C1PRFB_enNZ512NZ535&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=670&tbm=isch&imgil=fjgOebMiCKbKxM%253A%253BF1bV7MwMLnUhwM%253Bh ttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fhumansatsea.com%25252F201 6%25252F09%25252F18%25252Fescape-sinking-ship%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=fjgOebMiCKbKxM%253A%252CF1bV7MwMLnUhwM%252C_&usg=___CY-6k-xZB4b1rUvOM6Fsnfciok%3D&ved=0ahUKEwj3ttrmufDRAhWBvJQKHSG4AfIQyjcIIw&ei=6aSSWLeeCYH50gSh8IaQDw#imgrc=fjgOebMiCKbKxM:
Pacific Edge is a tightly run ship. No leaks

[Balance]

https://www.uclh.nhs.uk/News/Pages/urinetestforbladdercancer.aspx

"UroMark detected bladder cancer with a high degree of accuracy (98% of cases), equivalent to a cystoscopy, currently the clinical gold standard".

[Minerbarejet]

https://www.uclh.nhs.uk/News/Pages/urinetestforbladdercancer.aspx

"UroMark detected bladder cancer with a high degree of accuracy (98% of cases), equivalent to a cystoscopy, currently the clinical gold standard".

Thanks Balance,
It always pays to know what’s coming up behind us, and thankfully in this instance, quite a way behind us. Here is some relevant information from the BioMed Central article referred to in the University College London Hospital news section of their website.





Study population



Genome-wide DNA methylation profiling was performed on DNA from 86 bladder cancers and 30 age-matched normal urothelium samples obtained from biorepositories at the University College London Hospitals and the University of Birmingham Bladder Cancer Prognosis Program.



Discussion



The next stage will be the robust testing of this assay in two MRC-funded trials which are currently recruiting across multiple sites in the UK. In the current development studies, we used a mixed cohort of tumours and non-cancer controls from various sources. The objective of the Phase III studies is to determine the NPV of UroMark for the detection of bladder cancer in a population of patients referred for investigation of haematuria.





Clinical Trial details:



https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02676180



Estimated Enrollment:889

Study Start Date: March 2016

Estimated Study Completion Date: May 2018

Estimated Primary Completion Date: March 2018 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)





Conclusions



In this proof of concept study, we show the potential utility of a highly multiplex bisulphite sequencing assay for the detection of bladder cancer from urinary sediment.

The use of a non-invasive assay which rules out the presence of cancer with a high degree of certainty has the potential to revolutionise the treatment of bladder cancer.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/IQE/announcements/296427

Looks like Harbour decided to salvage the last of their few cents left in IQE. Fascinating that Harbour decided to increase its shareholding between September 2015 to August 2016 even while the sp tanked :

"Since 21 September 2015, as part of normal on-market trading activity Harbour Asset Management Limited purchased a total of 4,432,333 for $2,026,156.82 and sold a total of 1,189,483 for $495,495.51 IQE shares".

So certainly not safe to reckon the institutions always know what they are doing!

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/293908

After taking their underwriting lumps and buying more to motivate the sp, Harbour at 11.109% of PEB and must be hoping (greed long gone, but fear may yet come).

Almost a forgone conclusion there will be another opportunity to increase their exposure soon.

[Leftfield]

Interesting to note that Balance appears to have selected PEB in his/her 2017 stock picking competition entry.

Is this a case of optimism amongst the pessimism?

[winner69]

Interesting to note that Balance appears to have selected PEB in his/her 2017 stock picking competition entry.

Is this a case of optimism amongst the pessimism?

Yep - he also picked Veritas which has moved him into the Top 100

[pierre]

Yep - he also picked Veritas which has moved him into the Top 100

Our friend Balance is just having a laugh and taking the piss - he's chosen NZO PEB CGL SEA VIL - all dogs in his opinion I think.

Very amusing selection and it will be interesting to see how he goes in this year's competition. (Of course, there's also the possibility that he might just have taken a small punt on one or two of his choices too - though somehow I suspect Balance will play that card pretty close to his chest.))

[winner69]

Our friend Balance is just having a laugh and taking the piss - he's chosen NZO PEB CGL SEA VIL - all dogs in his opinion I think.

Very amusing selection and it will be interesting to see how he goes in this year's competition. (Of course, there's also the possibility that he might just have taken a small punt on one or two of his choices too - though somehow I suspect Balance will play that card pretty close to his chest.))

That Dogs of the NZX has PEB in his/her picks well

Not doing as well as Balance though - Dogs is 4th to bottom but at ahead of Sure Thing (who also has PEB)

[Ggcc]

Mmmmm a big buyer is topping up. Maybe some news around the corner......... or more window dressing

[kyanar]

I see PEB has once again engaged in wholesale shareholder capital destruction with yet another share placement. At this rate existing holders will be diluted to nothing!

[Leftfield]

Pacific Edge Undertakes $8m Share PlacementCapital Investment To Assist The Push Through To Cashflow Positive Position

Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge Limited (NZX:PEB), has undertaken a $8.0 million share placement to institutional and other select investors in New Zealand.

The placement was undertaken at no discount to market, with institutional and other select investors subscribing for new shares at $0.50 cents per share, the market price of Pacific Edge Limited shares traded on Tuesday 14 February 2017.

Pacific Edge is focused on building sales of its suite of innovative Cxbladder bladder cancer diagnostic tests and has been gaining traction in the USA market with a number of milestone achievements in the past year including:


Agreed cover and contract pricing with the Veterans Administration and TRICARE;
The successful completion of a large scale User Programme with healthcare provider Kaiser Permanente with positive and compelling results;
Continuing positive clinical validation of its Cxbladder technology in NZ and the USA;
The official USA launch of the third test in its suite of Cxbaldder tests; and
The recently announced release of a fourth test in New Zealand.


The company is generating increasing sales revenue, with a 162% jump in operating revenue in the last financial year to 31 March 2016 to $4.98 million; and test throughput is increasing as greater numbers of urologists trial and purchase Cxbladder tests. While the company has sufficient cash on hand of approximately $9 million for its immediate growth requirements, the new investment provides additional support for Pacific Edge to drive its commercial growth.

[winner69]

Hey Balance, as one of those select investors, did you make a donation to the cause?

[skid]

Pacific Edge Undertakes $8m Share PlacementCapital Investment To Assist The Push Through To Cashflow Positive Position

Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge Limited (NZX:PEB), has undertaken a $8.0 million share placement to institutional and other select investors in New Zealand.

The placement was undertaken at no discount to market, with institutional and other select investors subscribing for new shares at $0.50 cents per share, the market price of Pacific Edge Limited shares traded on Tuesday 14 February 2017.

Pacific Edge is focused on building sales of its suite of innovative Cxbladder bladder cancer diagnostic tests and has been gaining traction in the USA market with a number of milestone achievements in the past year including:


Agreed cover and contract pricing with the Veterans Administration and TRICARE;
The successful completion of a large scale User Programme with healthcare provider Kaiser Permanente with positive and compelling results;
Continuing positive clinical validation of its Cxbladder technology in NZ and the USA;
The official USA launch of the third test in its suite of Cxbaldder tests; and
The recently announced release of a fourth test in New Zealand.


The company is generating increasing sales revenue, with a 162% jump in operating revenue in the last financial year to 31 March 2016 to $4.98 million; and test throughput is increasing as greater numbers of urologists trial and purchase Cxbladder tests. While the company has sufficient cash on hand of approximately $9 million for its immediate growth requirements, the new investment provides additional support for Pacific Edge to drive its commercial growth.

that is a very notable cash burn--they really need the US health system to come around---Not sure if time is on their side--Its obviously out of their control

even though its almost double income,its not that big of a figure---I wonder why they didnt get one of those institutions to come to the party.

[Schrodinger]

that is a very notable cash burn--they really need the US health system to come around---Not sure if time is on their side--Its obviously out of their control

even though its almost double income,its not that big of a figure---I wonder why they didnt get one of those institutions to come to the party.

I think you all should buy Balance a beer for being correct. Also note that people chose to back this @ $0.50 based on hidden test numbers. Very scary!

$8M should last 6 months.

[winner69]

that is a very notable cash burn--they really need the US health system to come around---Not sure if time is on their side--Its obviously out of their control

even though its almost double income,its not that big of a figure---I wonder why they didnt get one of those institutions to come to the party.

Like $6m cash gone since September 30 - 4 months and a bit

[skid]

this does have similarities to the last cap raising with big amounts in the BUY column---there has been alot of fun poked at the ''window dressing'' concept ,but........

[kiwidollabill]

7/12/2015
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.... I'll be more specific, rights/cap raise done by March 2017 (advertised prior of course).

They'll pitch for $40M @ 0.20

You want to wager? Winner gets 1x share of PEB....

I was close with the time, but off on the pricing....

[When the bass drops]

Balance said $0.20 or $0.30 from memory. I think I'll hang on to the beer.

[When the bass drops]

The latest Edison is out for those who are interested. Valuation at $1.10 per share, down from $1.19 per share set in June 2016. Nothing written to make me run for the hills.

[barney]

Balance said $0.20 or $0.30 from memory. I think I'll hang on to the beer.

A heavily discounted issue of 1 for 3 at $0.30 I think was the prediction. Spot on give or take $0.20. Those damn institutions have been propping up the share price all this time so they could part take in a placement at market value. Swine.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/IQE/announcements/296427

Looks like Harbour decided to salvage the last of their few cents left in IQE. Fascinating that Harbour decided to increase its shareholding between September 2015 to August 2016 even while the sp tanked :

"Since 21 September 2015, as part of normal on-market trading activity Harbour Asset Management Limited purchased a total of 4,432,333 for $2,026,156.82 and sold a total of 1,189,483 for $495,495.51 IQE shares".

So certainly not safe to reckon the institutions always know what they are doing!

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/293908

After taking their underwriting lumps and buying more to motivate the sp, Harbour at 11.109% of PEB and must be hoping (greed long gone, but fear may yet come).

Almost a forgone conclusion there will be another opportunity to increase their exposure soon.

Entirely predictable - PEB spins, twists and predicts good times are ahead - even while the cash runs out.

Trump and his resident witch, Kellyanne Conway, must be taking lessons from PEB on 'alternative facts'? :D

[Balance]

The latest Edison is out for those who are interested. Valuation at $1.10 per share, down from $1.19 per share set in June 2016. Nothing written to make me run for the hills.

If you like Edison's research, you should read their research on Snakk.

Great insight on how Edison does research and valuations!

Example, Edison had a valuation of between $2.20 to $3.00 for Snakk in December 2014 (Valuation : Not Reflecting Value Of Opportunity). Today Snakk is struggling to hold 35c. Wonder what happened there!

[Balance]

If you like Edison's research, you should read their research on Snakk.

Great insight on how Edison does research and valuations!

Example, Edison had a valuation of between $2.20 to $3.00 for Snakk in December 2014 (Valuation : Not Reflecting Value Of Opportunity). Today Snakk is struggling to hold 35c. Wonder what happened there!

PS. You may also like to read their research on Oceania Natural (ONL). Sp has only halved in 2 months!

[trader_jackson]

$8m raised, quick and easy, and at market price... these "institutions and other select investors in New Zealand" must be very confident in PEB :t_up:

14.6m at 30 September, and 9m at middle of February so $5.6m in 4.5 months ($1.2m a month aprox), Looks like cash burn has not increased (must mean cash flows are increasing well...), and if they had not made the placement, they still could have lasted till September this year... what happened to the whole raising at 5 cents or something at full year (couple months time, not September) You'd think, worst case, they would now have another 14 months worth of cash to burn through so I doubt we'll see the whole scaremongering 5 cents in a couple...

With just $8m raised, seems they aren't to concerned about burning through alot more cash... I did have a laugh when they put "Pacific Edge advises that, as at the date of this release, it is in compliance with its continuous disclosure and financial reporting obligations."... you get the feeling something is great coming, but they can't quite say it yet.

Share price up 10%, but hey this is just the underwriters from a year ago propping it up again right? (right after they brought at market price...) ;)

[hammer&nail]

This the most intelligent post on this forum in some time. Well thought through.

[Balance]

Share price up 10%, but hey this is just the underwriters from a year ago propping it up again right? (right after they brought at market price...) ;)

Glad you are finally getting the picture :D

Excerpt from release : "While the company has sufficient cash on hand of approximately $9 million for its immediate growth requirements, the
new investment provides additional support for Pacific Edge to drive its commercial growth."

Immediate growth requirements? They could at least be honest and state that they are going to run out of cash to run the business so are simply being prudent by pushing out the day of reckoning by another 6 months.

Haha - Kellyanne Conway and Trump would be proud of the alternative facts. It's catching on!

[Schrodinger]

$8m raised, quick and easy, and at market price... these "institutions and other select investors in New Zealand" must be very confident in PEB :t_up:

14.6m at 30 September, and 9m at middle of February so $5.6m in 4.5 months ($1.2m a month aprox), Looks like cash burn has not increased (must mean cash flows are increasing well...), and if they had not made the placement, they still could have lasted till September this year... what happened to the whole raising at 5 cents or something at full year (couple months time, not September) You'd think, worst case, they would now have another 14 months worth of cash to burn through so I doubt we'll see the whole scaremongering 5 cents in a couple...

With just $8m raised, seems they aren't to concerned about burning through alot more cash... I did have a laugh when they put "Pacific Edge advises that, as at the date of this release, it is in compliance with its continuous disclosure and financial reporting obligations."... you get the feeling something is great coming, but they can't quite say it yet.

Share price up 10%, but hey this is just the underwriters from a year ago propping it up again right? (right after they brought at market price...) ;)

I wouldn't call a down round a success. How many tipped in money without USA lab throughput numbers? Also interested to know how confident they are of those numbers and if the general publi was given access.

[Balance]

$8m raised, quick and easy, and at market price... these "institutions and other select investors in New Zealand" must be very confident in PEB :t_up:



Market price?

You mean price at which the institutions have massaged it down to ( from 59c when PEB started talking to the instos to raise the $8m?).

Come on - stop trying to be Kellyanne Conway. There is only one of her and she is a piece of art!

[Balance]

14.6m at 30 September, and 9m at middle of February so $5.6m in 4.5 months ($1.2m a month aprox), Looks like cash burn has not increased (must mean cash flows are increasing well...), and if they had not made the placement, they still could have lasted till September this year... what happened to the whole raising at 5 cents or something at full year (couple months time, not September) You'd think, worst case, they would now have another 14 months worth of cash to burn through so I doubt we'll see the whole scaremongering 5 cents in a couple...



Whatever happened to the last great cashflow promise by PEB :

"Pacific Edge says it has enough cash to continuing operating at its cost base for another 15 months and hopes to secure sufficient sales to break even before that cash runs out." - NBR 25 Nov 2016

PS. Apparently Kellyanne Conway was consulted last night and paid handsomely for her services by PEB.

[Balance]

Hey Balance, as one of those select investors, did you make a donation to the cause?

Tempted - very very very tempted especially when I read this :

Expand its sales force in the US from 12 to 18 to service 19 major metro regions in the US

Complete the evaluation of South East Asia, and if favourable, launch operations in Singapore as an entry point

Complete the commercialisation of its third and fourth Cxbladder diagnostic tests, Cxbladder Monitor and Cxbladder Predict

Bring new product technology and product improvements through to its markets

Strengthen the balance sheet, allowing Pacific Edge to take advantage of commercial opportunities which arise

Alas, was from the last rights issue!

[winner69]

Tempted - very very very tempted especially when I read this :

Expand its sales force in the US from 12 to 18 to service 19 major metro regions in the US

Complete the evaluation of South East Asia, and if favourable, launch operations in Singapore as an entry point

Complete the commercialisation of its third and fourth Cxbladder diagnostic tests, Cxbladder Monitor and Cxbladder Predict

Bring new product technology and product improvements through to its markets

Strengthen the balance sheet, allowing Pacific Edge to take advantage of commercial opportunities which arise

Alas, was from the last rights issue!

You forgot to read this bit - The company is generating increasing sales revenue, with a 162% jump in operating revenue in the last financial year to 31 March 2016 to $4.98 million

And with expenses going up at lesser rate than sales it's all honky dory

[winner69]

$8m raised, quick and easy, and at market price... these "institutions and other select investors in New Zealand" must be very confident in PEB :t_up:

14.6m at 30 September, and 9m at middle of February so $5.6m in 4.5 months ($1.2m a month aprox), Looks like cash burn has not increased (must mean cash flows are increasing well...), and if they had not made the placement, they still could have lasted till September this year... what happened to the whole raising at 5 cents or something at full year (couple months time, not September) You'd think, worst case, they would now have another 14 months worth of cash to burn through so I doubt we'll see the whole scaremongering 5 cents in a couple...

With just $8m raised, seems they aren't to concerned about burning through alot more cash... I did have a laugh when they put "Pacific Edge advises that, as at the date of this release, it is in compliance with its continuous disclosure and financial reporting obligations."... you get the feeling something is great coming, but they can't quite say it yet.

Share price up 10%, but hey this is just the underwriters from a year ago propping it up again right? (right after they brought at market price...) ;)

t_j did you get tjhe nudge nudge wink wink signal from David

[Balance]

t_j did you get tjhe nudge nudge wink wink signal from David

David will need to go for eyebrows realigment soon - been doing so much nudge x 2, wink x 3?

[Schrodinger]

You forgot to read this bit - The company is generating increasing sales revenue, with a 162% jump in operating revenue in the last financial year to 31 March 2016 to $4.98 million

And with expenses going up at lesser rate than sales it's all honky dory

This was almost a year ago. As I said you cant assume anything until the paid lab throughput is analysed.

[Snow Leopard]

So a few more months of life-support granted.

Will this sick puppy ever rise from its bed and walk on its own four paws?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[skid]

You forgot to read this bit - The company is generating increasing sales revenue, with a 162% jump in operating revenue in the last financial year to 31 March 2016 to $4.98 million

And with expenses going up at lesser rate than sales it's all honky dory

Is that making you brim with confidence W69? Its that ''commercial opportunities which may arise'' that you had better be betting on-(I dont think ,more of the same is gonna get it)-commercial opportunities which may arise,doesnt sound that proactive to me.....once again ...time will tell.

or are you up to your tricks again you ole rascal :)

[Leftfield]

Looks like Balance has been proved right.......

ODT Article (https://www.odt.co.nz/business/cancer-diagnostic-company-burns-shareholders-cash)

[skid]

Looks like Balance has been proved right.......

ODT Article (https://www.odt.co.nz/business/cancer-diagnostic-company-burns-shareholders-cash)

I know that Mr Market can do some pretty unusual things,but Id be careful with this SP scenario. Can anyone think of a logical reason the SP would rise on this news? With cash burn 4 times income and the USA is a political quagmire on health at this point. We all want them to be successful and Id hate to see the test disappear from the market (Hell, I may need them) but in terms of investment ,has a long shot just gotten longer?

[Balance]

Looks like Balance has been proved right.......

ODT Article (https://www.odt.co.nz/business/cancer-diagnostic-company-burns-shareholders-cash)

The spin, spin and more spin!

"Pacific Edge's chief executive David Darling was contacted for comment and said the ''modest'' $8million raised was taken up ''willingly at market price [50c]'' by several institutional investors, and would cover operations through to 2018."

* WRONG - share price has fallen from 59c to 50c when institutions started getting approaches for yet more money so the 50c is actually a 15% discount.

''We would like to go faster, like everyone wants us to go faster, but we are at those limits ...working through the process,'' with care providers VA, Tricare and Kaiser."

* STUNNING OBSERVATION by a seasoned CEO? So what does that say about their planning and understanding of processes - to get it wrong every year since 2014 in terms of time frame.

''It [$100million] was a stake in the ground, and might take longer for us to get there,'' he said yesterday. Whether it's four, six or eight months, we just don't know [the time-line],'' Mr Darling said."

* ADMISSION - he does not have a clue. Number plucked out of the air to ramp the sp up.

"When asked about what update shareholders could expect on sales and costs, Mr Darling said sales were ''ramping up'' and ''progressing well''. Y

* YUP - same old, same old progress report every update. Scary to think that shareholders actually swallow that rubbish time and again.

Spinning - no wonder PEB is dizzy and going nowhere.

[Balance]

The latest Edison is out for those who are interested. Valuation at $1.10 per share, down from $1.19 per share set in June 2016. Nothing written to make me run for the hills.

Was $1.40 to $1.70 in their 2014 Report.

Was $1.32 in their Nov 2015 report.

Then $1.19 in their June 2016 report.

Now, $1.10 and this is before the $8m raising at 50c!

Slip, sliding away.

[Sgt Pepper]

Was $1.40 to $1.70 in their 2014 Report.

Was $1.32 in their Nov 2015 report.

Then $1.19 in their June 2016 report.


So is it
1) Death spiral
2) Take over target


Now, $1.10 and this is before the $8m raising at 50c!

Slip, sliding away.


So whats the consensus

1) Death Spiral

2) Takeover target

[kyanar]

I know that Mr Market can do some pretty unusual things,but Id be careful with this SP scenario. Can anyone think of a logical reason the SP would rise on this news? With cash burn 4 times income and the USA is a political quagmire on health at this point. We all want them to be successful and Id hate to see the test disappear from the market (Hell, I may need them) but in terms of investment ,has a long shot just gotten longer?

Honestly with cash burn like theirs, and updates like we see from them constantly, I worry that they may be dangerously close to "pulling a Wynyard". In that event the IP will likely be picked up for a pittance by someone like Abbott so the test won't just disappear into the aether, but our money very much might - they've been virtually setting it on fire for years. I've almost started ignoring the performance of PEB entirely - it's just a handy underperformer to mitigate my capital gains on MEL and AIA.

[Balance]

Honestly with cash burn like theirs, and updates like we see from them constantly, I worry that they may be dangerously close to "pulling a Wynyard". In that event the IP will likely be picked up for a pittance by someone like Abbott so the test won't just disappear into the aether, but our money very much might - they've been virtually setting it on fire for years. I've almost started ignoring the performance of PEB entirely - it's just a handy underperformer to mitigate my capital gains on MEL and AIA.

The underwriters/institutions in PEB now own around 40% of the stock - $80m worth of exposure. Another $8m to keep PEB alive - fair enough bet.

When you think about the situation, the underwriters and fund managers already stuck in there do not have much of a choice but to throw in some more cash to keep the fire burning.

This way, there is a chance and hope something will still emerge from the cash burn. If they do not put in any more money, it is then Wynyard #2 for sure - a certainty.

[blackcap]

The underwriters/institutions in PEB now own around 40% of the stock - $80m worth of exposure. Another $8m to keep PEB alive - fair enough bet.

When you think about the situation, the underwriters and fund managers already stuck in there do not have much of a choice but to throw in some more cash to keep the fire burning.

This way, there is a chance and hope something will still emerge from the cash burn. If they do not put in any more money, it is then Wynyard #2 for sure - a certainty.

Thanks Balance. You answered a question I was going to ask... why would "smart investors" throw good money after bad at 50 cents. But it does make sense, they already have so much stake in the venture they really do need to protect their investment and another $8m may be worth it. Still that cash burn is horrible and terrifying if you are a shareholder.....

[skid]

Im not sure how these things work---Is it possible that thay can salt the institutions investment in, in stages to creat a ''floor'' at 50c..thus killing 2 birds with one stone---They still invest(for reasons above?)and still keep the SP stabilized?

The OTT certainly calls it like it is ..no mucking around

[Balance]

Thanks Balance. You answered a question I was going to ask... why would "smart investors" throw good money after bad at 50 cents. But it does make sense, they already have so much stake in the venture they really do need to protect their investment and another $8m may be worth it. Still that cash burn is horrible and terrifying if you are a shareholder.....

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/253187.pdf

Westpac outed - 5m shares or $2.5m more towards the fire.

If they were hoping that the $8m (and their subsequent price support) would bring in other punters - sp back down to 50c tells the story.

[blackcap]

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/253187.pdf

Westpac outed - 5m shares or $2.5m more towards the fire.

If they were hoping that the $8m (and their subsequent price support) would bring in other punters - sp back down to 50c tells the story.

I see K1W1 are also selling some of their holding.

[Balance]

I see K1W1 are also selling some of their holding.

And not participate anymore in the 'support cash-burn & ever shifting timeline' brigade.

Interesting development because Tindall has supported this company all the way through.

Means he will be selling the rest of his 19m shares most probably as he feels he has done his part?

Hope the underwriters have deep pockets left to buy another $9m - $10m worth of stock.

[Minerbarejet]

It's been rumoured that the underwriters are propping the share price or in other words market manipulation; they are not very good at it are they.:)

[Balance]

It's been rumoured that the underwriters are propping the share price or in other words market manipulation; they are not very good at it are they.:)

Market manipulation is of course an offense so one hopes you have proof to back up your assertion!

Supporting the sp requires all hands to the pump - Tindall decided he had enough and decided he better drain some fluid?

[Minerbarejet]

Market manipulation is of course an offense so one hopes you have proof to back up your assertion!

Supporting the sp requires all hands to the pump - Tindall decided he had enough and decided he better drain some fluid?And one hopes of course that assertions of institutions supporting the share price, as you have endlessly proposed, are backed with proof as well in order for FMA to prosecute for market manipulation.

[Balance]

And one hopes of course that assertions of institutions supporting the share price, as you have endlessly proposed, are backed with proof as well in order for FMA to prosecute for market manipulation.

Haha - I have no concerns. Their SSHs tell the tale.

But market manipulation is your assertion! Not mine.

[davflaws]

Haha - I have no concerns. Their SSHs tell the tale.

But market manipulation is your assertion! Not mine.

Is there a difference between "market manipulation" and "instos propping up the price"?

[Minerbarejet]

Is there a difference between "market manipulation" and "instos propping up the price"?
One wouldnt think so if propping up the price is what is actually going on.
If the institutions are carrying out transactions as part of a normal everyday free market I cant for the life of me see why that is being presented here as something sinister, dodgy or as something we are to agonize over endlessly.
If it is not sinister or dodgy then perhaps congratulations should be forthcoming for the institutions willingness to support the company through a long drawn out procedure not of PEBs making.

As for K1W1, maybe they have found a "bargain" somewhere else.

[Balance]

One wouldnt think so if propping up the price is what is actually going on.
If the institutions are carrying out transactions as part of a normal everyday free market I cant for the life of me see why that is being presented here as something sinister, dodgy or as something we are to agonize over endlessly.
If it is not sinister or dodgy then perhaps congratulations should be forthcoming for the institutions willingness to support the company through a long drawn out procedure not of PEBs making.

As for K1W1, maybe they have found a "bargain" somewhere else.

1. Nobody is agonizing (maybe save those who are indeed agonizing as the sp and valuations by Edison continue to head south?).

Observing market sp dynamics makes for better understanding (as far as some of us are concerned) of sp movements and therefore, better investing. Buying before and then, selling into balance date window dressing for eg is a time honored strategy. I bought Diligent shares when Milford started badmouthing the company after selling out.

2. Not PEB's making?

PEB has showed that it is very good at spinning about market potential (tens of millions of customers and patients) but the directors, managers and certainly the CEO are amateurs when it comes to understanding and executing a commercialization strategy:

1. delays after delays, setting timelines which are guaranteed to be extended and stretched (showing complete lack of understanding of the process and timeframe involved)

2. One test program after another test program, each test program is supposed to set the scene for huge uptake by others.

3. Going hell for broke and building up expensive staffing in the US before its tests are embraced by the medical profession (classic cart before the poor horse),

4. falling flat on its face in Australia and Spain and the EU after fanfares about the potential of those markets,

5. burning through cash and promising with each capital raising that it will be the last,

6. focusing on US one year, shifting gear to Asia and now, back to focusing on US,

- the list goes on and on

BUT of course, it is NOT of PEB's making! :D

Like blaming the weather when a farmer who does not protect his crops from the occasional summer frost gets wiped out?

Or sailing a fishing boat into Antarctica to catch big fishes without an understanding of weather and water conditions and blaming the rough seas when the boat sinks?

Only idiots fish for snapper in the Waikato river.

[skid]

Im not sure how these things work---Is it possible that thay can salt the institutions investment in, in stages to creat a ''floor'' at 50c..thus killing 2 birds with one stone---They still invest(for reasons above?)and still keep the SP stabilized?

The OTT certainly calls it like it is ..no mucking around

Just to be clear---This was a question--Ive no idea if its legal or not

[Minerbarejet]

So Balance, you are suggesting that PEB should have been able to have forseen the amount of time taken for CMS approval, the vagaries of a US Presidential election, economic turmoil, Brexit, overtaking competition,
Urologist dissonance and a host of other variables beyond their control
Sorry to disappoint you but this is covered by the phrase " forward looking statements" in any prospectus.
Do your own research and run it by a broker who will probably know about as much about it as you do.

[Balance]

So Balance, you are suggesting that PEB should have been able to have forseen the amount of time taken for CMS approval, the vagaries of a US Presidential election, economic turmoil, Brexit, overtaking competition,
Urologist dissonance and a host of other variables beyond their control
Sorry to disappoint you but this is covered by the phrase " forward looking statements" in any prospectus.
Do your own research and run it by a broker who will probably know about as much about it as you do.

Share markets have gone from strength to strength in the last 3 years since PEB launched its commercialization program in a blaze of promises and high expectations ('several tens of thousands of tests in 2014") :

1. There has been no economic turmoil, save for the occasional economic jitters,

2. Brexit was a temporary aberration and blip on the economic landscape,

3. US election was only in 2016 and the US economy continued to grow and prosper,

and other companies continue to grow, progress and successfully commercialize their operations.

So what is it with PEB that it stumbles, falls and experience delay after delay?

Oh of course - it's not the management's fault! :D

[Balance]

Haha - I have no concerns. Their SSHs tell the tale.



Latest SSH - confirming what some of us KNEW and stated, not suspected.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/297062

Details of transactions and events giving rise to relevant event: 3,500,000 shares were purchased in the private placement offer made available to institutional investors on 17 February 2017 for a total aggregate consideration of $1,750,000.

On-market purchases of 3,866,015 shares between 18 April 2016 and 26 January 2017 for a total aggregate consideration of $2,017,510.28.

On-market sale of 170,000 shares on 16 December 2016 for a consideration of $101,674.00.

** ** **

Salt obviously believes that rubbing salt into a wound is a good thing?

Or being of that ilk, believes in digging deeper to follow the salt trail although the adage is that when you are in a hole, stop digging?

[Minerbarejet]

Latest SSH - confirming what some of us KNEW and stated, not suspected.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/297062

Details of transactions and events giving rise to relevant event: 3,500,000 shares were purchased in the private placement offer made available to institutional investors on 17 February 2017 for a total aggregate consideration of $1,750,000.

On-market purchases of 3,866,015 shares between 18 April 2016 and 26 January 2017 for a total aggregate consideration of $2,017,510.28.

On-market sale of 170,000 shares on 16 December 2016 for a consideration of $101,674.00.

** ** **

Salt obviously believes that rubbing salt into a wound is a good thing?

Or being of that ilk, believes in digging deeper to follow the salt trail although the adage is that when you are in a hole, stop digging?

First purchase averages out to 52.1cps
Sale of 170000 is at 59.8
More purchases were at 50c
Looks like they got about 26000 shares for nothing or 13000 towards the kitty
What is wrong with that.

It will take some time for me to figure out why buying shares at .52, selling them at close to .60 and then buying more at .50 amounts to salt being rubbed in wounds.
The only real conclusion I can manage at present is that your calculator is either of very shoddy construction or originated at the duty free on a recent visit to an alternative universe.



•••

[Balance]

First purchase averages out to 52.1cps
Sale of 170000 is at 59.8
More purchases were at 50c
Looks like they got about 26000 shares for nothing or 13000 towards the kitty
What is wrong with that.

It will take some time for me to figure out why buying shares at .52, selling them at close to .60 and then buying more at .50 amounts to salt being rubbed in wounds.
The only real conclusion I can manage at present is that your calculator is either of very shoddy construction or originated at the duty free on a recent visit to an alternative universe.



•••

Ah - but the 170,000 sold at 59.8c were bought as part of the 11m shares in the rights issue of 2015 at 61c.

At 50c and no dividends to date, that's a black eye of $1.21m loss on the books.

You sure you did not recently graduate from the Kellyanne Conway school of how to manufacture alternative facts?

BTW - looks like some of those lovely 50c placement shares are finding their way back to the market? To be absorbed by you know who! :D

[Minerbarejet]

Ah - but the 170,000 sold at 59.8c were bought as part of the 11m shares in the rights issue of 2015 at 61c.

At 50c and no dividends to date, that's a black eye of $1.21m loss on the books.

You sure you did not recently graduate from the Kellyanne Conway school of how to manufacture alternative facts?

BTW - looks like some of those lovely 50c placement shares are finding their way back to the market? To be absorbed by you know who! :DAbsolute rubbish.
There is no way you can say that the 170000 shares sold were from a certain rights issue if more shares have been purchased in the interim. Which is the case here.
We are dealing with aggregates, accumulations, dollar cost averaging and fund pools, not individual purchases.
Saying that shares were from a certain purchase would create an accounting nightmare of historic proportions.

[Balance]

Absolute rubbish.
There is no way you can say that the 170000 shares sold were from a certain rights issue if more shares have been purchased in the interim. Which is the case here.
We are dealing with aggregates, accumulations, dollar cost averaging and fund pools, not individual purchases.
Saying that shares were from a certain purchase would create an accounting nightmare of historic proportions.

Agreed - absolute rubbish.

" We are dealing with aggregates, accumulations, dollar cost averaging and fund pools, not individual purchases."

But wait, there;'s more :

"It will take some time for me to figure out why buying shares at .52, selling them at close to .60 and then buying more at .50 amounts to salt being rubbed in wounds."

Did they come from the same person? Cannot be as the two statements are contradictory!

[hammer&nail]

Minerbarejet, while it is most noble trying to point out the plainly obvious to the naive and natural cynics in the world, it's perhaps not worth the effort as you'll just wind yourself up. As an aside, might be nice to see the Sharetrader forum used for company discussions and trade ideas as opposed to a poor NZ version of zero hedge, save for the intellect.




Absolute rubbish.
There is no way you can say that the 170000 shares sold were from a certain rights issue if more shares have been purchased in the interim. Which is the case here.
We are dealing with aggregates, accumulations, dollar cost averaging and fund pools, not individual purchases.
Saying that shares were from a certain purchase would create an accounting nightmare of historic proportions.

[When the bass drops]

Another credibility tick https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/254393.pdf

[Balance]

Another credibility tick https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/254393.pdf

PEB has completely misjudged the importance of having its tests approved by the FDA.

A stamp of approval by the FDA is a major selling point in the litigious US medical market - something PEB should have followed rather than waste the time, resources and money hiring a cast of hundreds and thousands in staff to try and market to urologists.

Unfortunately, it is typical PEB to try and do things its way without really sussing out the market.

Oh well, 4 more years.

[Snow Leopard]

Another credibility tick https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/254393.pdf

IS this paper an outcome from the Kaiser thing - anybody actually know ?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[pierre]

PEB has completely misjudged the importance of having its tests approved by the FDA.

A stamp of approval by the FDA is a major selling point in the litigious US medical market - something PEB should have followed rather than waste the time, resources and money hiring a cast of hundreds and thousands in staff to try and market to urologists.

Unfortunately, it is typical PEB to try and do things its way without really sussing out the market.

Oh well, 4 more years.

Very remiss of PEB and I'm very disappointed they haven't employed you to deal with issues like these for them. You could have saved them so much time and money, not to mention all the negativity on ST.

There's still time though I guess - how about giving David a call today and offering your services? I'm sure that he and all current holders will be eternally grateful.

[psychic]

IS this paper an outcome from the Kaiser thing - anybody actually know ?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
I don't "know" but...
The KP study recruited (n2000?) patients presenting with haematuria (Cxbladder Triage).
This study is for Cxbladder Monitor - pulled from ~1000 samples/ patients undergoing surveilance at 11 US clinics

[drcjp]

You don't necessarily need FDA to do clinical testing in the USA. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22081361
Quest offer such services and its my understanding thats why PEB built the facilities at Hershey. If its "home brew" then it could be covered under CLIA regulations, not FDA. IIRC, PEB do testing in house as the kit is sent (from hospital, GP clinic or wherever) to Hershey or Dunedin. Thats why PEB are keen for the Medicare and Kaiser approval etc.

And no, this paper is not the Kaiser report. You'll know if Kaiser green light it allright.

[Leftfield]

IS this paper an outcome from the Kaiser thing - anybody actually know ?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

90% sure it is. Sample size ties in.

[Dentie]

PEB has completely misjudged the importance of having its tests approved by the FDA.

A stamp of approval by the FDA is a major selling point in the litigious US medical market - something PEB should have followed rather than waste the time, resources and money hiring a cast of hundreds and thousands in staff to try and market to urologists.

Unfortunately, it is typical PEB to try and do things its way without really sussing out the market.

Oh well, 4 more years.

Comments like this are gold.....
....Cxbladder Monitor test significantly outperforms current Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) approved urine-based monitoring tests, including cytology and
UroVysion® FISH....

FDA = credibility?

[When the bass drops]

Comments like this are gold.....
....Cxbladder Monitor test significantly outperforms current Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) approved urine-based monitoring tests, including cytology and
UroVysion® FISH....

FDA = credibility?













You can criticise the way things have rolled out timing-wise all you like, and I do, but at this stage you cannot play down the performance of the monitor test relative to what's there at the moment. There are good arguments for Pacific Edge marketing the product as something used in conjunction with an existing procedure, rather than a complete replacement of what is there, but surely the merits of using the PEB test suite cannot be ignored much longer.

The road to potential success has not been a perfect one for this company, and their communication at times. I feel (maybe) that decisions may not have been made so much in the interests of all shareholders, but rather a select few, in recent times. I know of someone close to me in a professional sense who was hopping mad when his affiliated organisation was not contacted in regards to raising the $8m recently, despite being a big holder. i.e. not being given the option to take part.

At this point I'm happy to see the intermittent positive announcements like what came out today. And I'm very much on the side of the ledger of those that believe the $8m will carry them through to profitability. This is countered by the fact that it is still a risky proposition as a big player (or two big players) could just say "no" for any reason whatsoever. That's business and life, and I've always kept that in mind as an investor.

[Balance]

90% sure it is. Sample size ties in.

Wishful thinking - like PEB's several missed predictions of when the company becomes profitable.

"The KP study recruited (n2000?) patients presenting with haematuria (Cxbladder Triage).
This study is for Cxbladder Monitor - pulled from ~1000 samples/ patients undergoing surveilance at 11 US clinics."

[Balance]

Very remiss of PEB and I'm very disappointed they haven't employed you to deal with issues like these for them. You could have saved them so much time and money, not to mention all the negativity on ST.

There's still time though I guess - how about giving David a call today and offering your services? I'm sure that he and all current holders will be eternally grateful.

PEB directors and management are paid millions of dollars each year to know their game. Or at least that's what I assume CEOs, MDs and senior executives are paid to do?

I may not chase and round up sheep but I sure as hell know whether a farm dog is good at its rounding up task by watching and observing its results!

[Balance]

Comments like this are gold.....
....Cxbladder Monitor test significantly outperforms current Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) approved urine-based monitoring tests, including cytology and
UroVysion® FISH....

FDA = credibility?


[SIZE=3]


https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Testimony/ucm473922.htm

[Baa_Baa]

https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Testimony/ucm473922.htm

Explain it, there's no need to expect lay people to read such technical mumbo jumbo, let alone extrapolate how that equates to shareholder value. Regurgitating the same links in multiple posts as if it is some reason for investors to recoil, without any explanation, suggests one has a divine insight, whereas that ironically suggests the opposite.

[kiwidollabill]

I mean, why wouldn't US doctors trust Laboratory Developed tests.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2016/10/08/bad-blood-the-decline-and-fall-of-elizabeth-holmes-and-theranos/#78a3ae42c335

[Balance]

Explain it, there's no need to expect lay people to read such technical mumbo jumbo, let alone extrapolate how that equates to shareholder value. Regurgitating the same links in multiple posts as if it is some reason for investors to recoil, without any explanation, suggests one has a divine insight, whereas that ironically suggests the opposite.

Ain't no regurgitation here.

All about the FDA and its role in assuring the reasonable safety and effectiveness of diagnostic tests in medicine: that they are accurate, reliable, and clinically meaningful—regardless of where they are produced—so that patients and their health care providers can rely upon their results to make major medical decisions.

Those who cannot be bothered to read through and understand what the article is about - should NOT be investing in a stock like PEB, surely!

[Balance]

I mean, why wouldn't US doctors trust Laboratory Developed tests.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2016/10/08/bad-blood-the-decline-and-fall-of-elizabeth-holmes-and-theranos/#78a3ae42c335

Real reinforcement here as to why the medical profession and investors prefer FDA approved tests.

From US$4.5 billion to zero!

Excerpt : "October 2016: Theranos lays off 340 people—43% of its staff—and exits the business of running a laboratory. Instead, Theranos will try to get the machines it showed in August approved by the Food and Drug Administration."

[drcjp]

Theranos never actually had any tests. The investors in that company were idiots as they should have asked for the CLIA docs at least.

23andme is a better comparison.

[Balance]

Theranos never actually had any tests. The investors in that company were idiots as they should have asked for the CLIA docs at least.

23andme is a better comparison.

Big call - just like the investors in Wynyard were idiots?

The issue I believe is whether PEB should have its tests FDA approved.

Would have saved them a lot of money and as can be seen now with all the user test programs (one after another), time as well.

[drcjp]

Everybody in the industry knew Theranos was going to fail. The resolution of the technology just isn't there.
Wynyard failed for different reasons - they had actual software.

As the link I provided above states, PEB don't necessarily need FDA if they keep it in-house. They'll only need FDA if they start shipping the kits elsewhere and letting others do the tests, because to my knowledge, PEB do it in-house themselves at present.

[Dentie]

Ain't no regurgitation here.

All about the FDA and its role in assuring the reasonable safety and effectiveness of diagnostic tests in medicine: that they are accurate, reliable, and clinically meaningful—regardless of where they are produced—so that patients and their health care providers can rely upon their results to make major medical decisions.

Those who cannot be bothered to read through and understand what the article is about - should NOT be investing in a stock like PEB, surely!

Trouble is Balance, organisations like the FDA (who appear to see themselves as "god-like") spend so much time producing such long winded documents (that nobody can understand) under the guise of patient safety and clinically accurate, reliable etc etc etc. that they actually miss the arrival of the unrivalled quality and innovative diagnostic tests - such as CXBladder. This means the people they are meant to be protecting actually miss out on getting the treatment (or knowledge of their cancer plight).

With test result after test result and journal after journal recognizing CXBladder as "best in class" - the FDA need to forget about their own importance and issue their formal backing of CXBladder. It is the patients who are paying the ultimate price for this.

Me thinks if CXBladder was a yankee made test - the FDA (& Urologists etc) would have ticked this off a couple of years ago!!

[skid]

Trouble is Balance, organisations like the FDA (who appear to see themselves as "god-like") spend so much time producing such long winded documents (that nobody can understand) under the guise of patient safety and clinically accurate, reliable etc etc etc. that they actually miss the arrival of the unrivalled quality and innovative diagnostic tests - such as CXBladder. This means the people they are meant to be protecting actually miss out on getting the treatment (or knowledge of their cancer plight).

With test result after test result and journal after journal recognizing CXBladder as "best in class" - the FDA need to forget about their own importance and issue their formal backing of CXBladder. It is the patients who are paying the ultimate price for this.

Me thinks if CXBladder was a yankee made test - the FDA (& Urologists etc) would have ticked this off a couple of years ago!!

Its a tough market all right---Its the FDA whether you agree with them or not---and companies look to the FDA for reassurance (whether they are right or not, to do so) the wild card is Trump wanting to get rid of alot of restrictions and make it easier to put drugs on the market--Highly controversial though (as is most things with Trump)---Keep in mind the key motivation for those behind the Republicans is to make cut backs on everything,including Medicare. and of course there is the Obamacare scraping ,with nothing workable to take its place.

[skid]

Its a tough market all right---Its the FDA whether you agree with them or not---and companies look to the FDA for reassurance (whether they are right or not, to do so) the wild card is Trump wanting to get rid of alot of restrictions and make it easier to put drugs on the market--Highly controversial though (as is most things with Trump)---Keep in mind the key motivation for those behind the Republicans is to make cut backs on everything,including Medicare. and of course there is the Obamacare scraping ,with nothing workable to take its place.

New republican Health care package--Looks like cuts...watch this space

[Balance]

Its a tough market all right---Its the FDA whether you agree with them or not---and companies look to the FDA for reassurance (whether they are right or not, to do so) the wild card is Trump wanting to get rid of alot of restrictions and make it easier to put drugs on the market--Highly controversial though (as is most things with Trump)---Keep in mind the key motivation for those behind the Republicans is to make cut backs on everything,including Medicare. and of course there is the Obamacare scraping ,with nothing workable to take its place.

Presumably FDA approval constitutes an excellent defense against any legal action in the event of any medical misadventure or diagnosis in the event of a claim - US is as litigious a place as can ever be.

The fact that PEB tests are not FDA approved cannot be a positive - it can only be a negative as far as perception and acceptance by urologists are concerned.

Seriously wonder why PEB chose the path of not getting approval.

[drcjp]

Me thinks if CXBladder was a yankee made test - the FDA (& Urologists etc) would have ticked this off a couple of years ago!!

Not necessarily. US$1100 per scope procedure pays better than $450 per CxBladder, no matter whose making the test.

[Dentie]

Not necessarily. US$1100 per scope procedure pays better than $450 per CxBladder, no matter whose making the test.

ha ha....and I thought I held the most cynical views in this space. Shame on you!! :t_up:

[peat]

I havent particularly followed the company and rate it firmly as speculative at best but I couldnt help notice a bullish gartley over the last two years
Excuse the roughness of the chart.....
8736

One of the benefits of this view is the clear cut off point i.e wrong at 38 and then bail. one could stagger the stop losses too, given there are obvious stop loss levels at 49 & 43.
Also there is a 5 wave pattern from Nov 16 ......

For risk takers only.

[When the bass drops]

Appreciate your view on that peat but PEB is more than just an equity that professional share traders would add to a portfolio. I would say the same about any other share such as the reasonably speculative WDT, BLIS or your established MFT, MET, ANZ, WBC, RYM etc or whatever. Ofcourse, if you were holding a small amount of PEB along with 30 other stocks, and you were a non-emotional professional laptop trader, it would be your prerogative to come in and out of it in a short amount of time and hopefully take a small gain on PEB and move on, and this is a chalk-and-cheese mindset when compared to an investor (with a larger hold) who was looking to see PEB through to its goals of cash positive and profitability. I am one of these.

But I don't disagree with your final statement. Yes, there is risk. My point really is that investing in PEB is more than just scientific and based on studying trends.