PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[trader_jackson]

https://nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/298295

"An international study demonstrates compelling changes in urologists’ clinical decisions, with use of Cxbladder Triage and Cxbladder Detect leading to fewer total tests and less invasive procedures, implying a reduction in healthcare costs and an improved experience and outcome for patients."

With all the talk about trump(care?) and how 'bad' it will be for pacific edge (although, perhaps ironically, it was nearly never brought up how great Obamacare could be for PEB) the bold above sounds like something trump would love!
And, well, the doctors, patients etc... share price back at 56 cents, but Balance has noted several times it only goes up becuase of those 'manipulative underwriters', but when it goes down it is because of the market ;)

[psychic]

Very good news. PE can demonstrate both clinical validity AND Utility. The sort of things CMS like...

[psychic]

All of the urologists changed their diagnostic recommendations once they
assessed the Cxbladder results ranging from 1 to 100% of the patient cases.
This led to a reduction of 25% in the total number of diagnostic procedures
for patients, including a 31% reduction in invasive tests, following
inclusion of both the Triage and Detect results for those patients.

my bold.. :]

[skid]

https://nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/298295

"An international study demonstrates compelling changes in urologists’ clinical decisions, with use of Cxbladder Triage and Cxbladder Detect leading to fewer total tests and less invasive procedures, implying a reduction in healthcare costs and an improved experience and outcome for patients."

With all the talk about trump(care?) and how 'bad' it will be for pacific edge (although, perhaps ironically, it was nearly never brought up how great Obamacare could be for PEB) the bold above sounds like something trump would love!
And, well, the doctors, patients etc... share price back at 56 cents, but Balance has noted several times it only goes up becuase of those 'manipulative underwriters', but when it goes down it is because of the market ;)

With the Obama era ,it was business as usual for companies like PEB(trying to get acceptance for the big things like Medicare coverage)--But with the Trump era bringing uncertainty,it put the medical community in limbo,thus causing delays in decision making. The fact that ''Trumpcare'' is apparently a cost cutting procedure, creates an atmosphere that is not conductive to new players entering the market.It could of course happen,but IMO the Obamacare era was a better chance. The Trump administration is not really making a name for themselves in terms of getting things done on an administrative level. ---to put your inference in a nutshell--Trumpcare,''uncertainty''is what is bad for PEB---There are areas of the Government ,like overseas Government posts, that have discontinued policies that were up for renewal,simply because they have gotten no information from the government on what to do. Thats not a good atmosphere to be working in.---Remember ..this is an experimental Government with no clue about the nuts and bolts of everyday running of affairs.

If some company came up with a different, less effective test,but someone in this Government had ties with them.....what do YOU think would happen

[Hoop]

PEB has been technically bullish for a month now..10 days ago there was a mass of buy signals triggered at 53c (must buy) Today the Price is at 59c up 2c

On the charts there is a 10 month old strongish resistance level at 59/60c....The market depth also shows a resistance at 60c..This could a big hurdle to jump over...however the TA indicators are bullish so there is a good chance it may breakout..The last time PEB broke out was just over a year ago It went from 40c to 60c a handsome very short term profit of +50% in 28 days...since then PEB has been in a secondary downtrend (PEB has been in a primary downtrend from ~$1.60 for over the last 2 years).

The usual lower risk TA discipline rule of thumb applies... Don't buy/hold down trending stocks...buy/accumulate at support, Hold (cease buying/accumulation) at resistance..Wait for the breakout signal.

[When the bass drops]

Trades a plenty today. 64.

[trader_jackson]

Trades a plenty today. 64.

Don't get to excited, you know it is only the underwriters trying to window dress... ;)

And yes, someone in government could have ties with the much less efficient test, but they would have truck load of ties... there are alot of organisations in the US, with many interests not directly funded by the government (I think)

[skid]

Don't get to excited, you know it is only the underwriters trying to window dress... ;)

And yes, someone in government could have ties with the much less efficient test, but they would have truck load of ties... there are alot of organisations in the US, with many interests not directly funded by the government (I think)

Point is...anything can happen in this administration....conflict of interest does not exist in USA......but I debate fundamentals...but not the market...celebrate

It pays however, to keep tabs on the medical world and the government,over there----We all know,what PEB really need is a big break and Medicare is that break,unless your happy just stumbling along ,like now....so is Medicare program in a position to make that happen?
Or perhaps one of the big insurance co.s set to make trillions of of Trumps plan (the boys?) If they came around and realized they might save money that could be good.But IMO the biggest hurtle has always been the Doctors themselves..a conservative lot,who may not be particularly keen on abandoning their ole stand by, invasive test.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-stock-futures-climb-as-fed-fueled-rally-set-to-continue-2017-03-16?mod=MW_story_top_stories

[artemis]

....................... .But IMO the biggest hurtle has always been the Doctors themselves..a conservative lot,who may not be particularly keen on abandoning their ole stand by, invasive test.

Quite so, especially if it pays them better. To be fair though, they can't much enjoy performing the invasive test and most will have their patient's interest at heart. (Whatever happened to 'first do no harm'? - choosing a painful and undignified test over a better non invasive test must fit somewhere on the harm scale. )

[skid]

Quite so, especially if it pays them better. To be fair though, they can't much enjoy performing the invasive test and most will have their patient's interest at heart. (Whatever happened to 'first do no harm'? - choosing a painful and undignified test over a better non invasive test must fit somewhere on the harm scale. )

True..but ts possible it may take the next generation of doctors for that----Im sure the old codgers are not thinking ''im gonna do this undignified invasive test ''.....Its just ''the test''

example..http://medcitynews.com/2015/06/eric-topol-frustrated-doctors-slow-to-adopt-pharmacogenomics/

[skid]

Guess it was a bit early to break out the champagne---another week coming. ---(there are definitely beginning to be some unhappy campers over in USA with potential cuts to healthcare and just about all social programs including programs like meals on wheels.......Its all going to the military.

[trader_jackson]

Guess it was a bit early to break out the champagne---another week coming. ---(there are definitely beginning to be some unhappy campers over in USA with potential cuts to healthcare and just about all social programs including programs like meals on wheels.......Its all going to the military.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/298611

Looks like they have another 15ish months from today to get things sorted, after another incrementally positive annoucement... also looks like those underwriters are doing a great job of keeping the price so elevated! ;)

Would like to think things are coming together, and the 1.2m cash burn a month is showing signs of reducing... but I don't think we'll see the 1 for 3 capital raising at 5 cents or what ever was suggested by some on this thread in a couple months time.

[When the bass drops]

Another great announcement TJ I agree. Seems to be a trend lately. :)

The next 6-12 months is crunch time for PEB. I'm of the view success is around the corner, which will largely depend on a large customer saying yes to their product and agreeing to buy a ton of it.

I'm weary, as we all should be, of further delays - a lot of which are outside PEB's control, and possibly due in part to the Trump factor and the uncertainties.

We'll watch closely.

[Hectorplains]

Another great announcement TJ I agree. Seems to be a trend lately. :)

The next 6-12 months is crunch time for PEB. I'm of the view success is around the corner, which will largely depend on a large customer saying yes to their product and agreeing to buy a ton of it.

I'm weary, as we all should be, of further delays - a lot of which are outside PEB's control, and possibly due in part to the Trump factor and the uncertainties.

We'll watch closely.

Yeah, the $ great but Callaghan's ability to pick winners is more questionable.

[janner]

Yeah, the $ great but Callaghan's ability to pick winners is more questionable.

One of my mistake investments... Sold out about 2 years ago.. At a lose.. Still on my watch list.. The programme has not even given a tinkle on the bell. A tinkle on the programme bell will only alert me to some Fairy Dust... Maybe :-))

[Hectorplains]

One of my mistake investments... Sold out about 2 years ago.. At a lose.. Still on my watch list.. The programme has not even given a tinkle on the bell. A tinkle on the programme bell will only alert me to some Fairy Dust... Maybe :-))

Share price has been remarkably buoyant on no real news - nothing that's worth being marked price sensitive. Given the complicated medical and political issues surrounding this stock, which even the bulls acknowledge, it still looks more like gambling than investing to me?

[skid]

I dont think even the Republicans are going to accept that dog of a healthcare bill---IMO the medical world needs a dose of predictability.
doesnt mean some big player wont accept PEB but there certainly could be better climates to operate in over there.
Anyone making a big business decision without knowing whats in store in terms of policies does so at their peril. BUT the sharemarket over there has been on a tear so that could keep up the price and provide some optimism for hanging in there...although it will be interesting to see how today holds.

agree SP has been remarkably bouyant

[winner69]

Shareprice drifting down again

They be ringing David again in the next day or so and saying 'Dave, time for another announcement. Doesn't matter what as long as it is about an exciting future, so punters will take a few more off our hands'

[Balance]

Shareprice drifting down again

They be ringing David again in the next day or so and saying 'Dave, time for another announcement. Doesn't matter what as long as it is about an exciting future, so punters will take a few more off our hands'

You know the drill, W69 - move 'em up and sell 'em down.

A few institutional shareholders stuck in there now effectively control the stock and in turn, its short term sp, and the rest left in there are cheerleaders who are happy for any sign of movement!

[psychic]

You two have any evidence supporting this or just spouting off?

[Ggcc]

Spoke to someone who uses Forsyth and Barr and they advised him to buy PEB. Risky at this point me thinks. But hey DYOR

[Balance]

You two have any evidence supporting this or just spouting off?

U move 'em up and u move 'em down, u move 'em around!

In the period from the last disclosure, as part of normal on-market trading activity under discretionary investment mandates, Harbour Asset Management Limited purchased 11,910,516 PEB shares for a gross consideration $6,969,261.97 and sold 6,203,501 PEB shares for a gross consideration of $3,766,508.93. As a result of these transactions Harbour Asset Management Limited, has, at the date of this notice a relevant interest in 42,314,248 (11.085%) PEB shares.

In the period from the last disclosure, as part of normal on-market trading First NZ Capital Securities Limited sold 1,333,788 PEB shares. As a result of these transactions, First NZ Capital Securities Limited, has, at the date of this notice, a relevant interest in 96,746 (0.00025%) PEB shares.

As a result of these transactions, First NZ Capital Group Limited (which includes the related body corporates, Harbour Asset Management Limited and First NZ Capital Securities Limited), has, at the date of this notice, a relevant interest in 42,410,944 (11.109%) PEB shares.

[Balance]

Spoke to someone who uses Forsyth and Barr and they advised him to buy PEB. Risky at this point me thinks. But hey DYOR

Same Forsyth Barr (without the 'and') who recommended Feltex as an accumulate a week before it went under?

[Ggcc]

Exactly what ever advice you received from specialist people don't always follow that advice. People need to weigh the options and make their own decision. I am still involved in this stock, but would not advise people to get into this stock, unless they wanted results after a long time.

[skid]

Exactly what ever advice you received from specialist people don't always follow that advice. People need to weigh the options and make their own decision. I am still involved in this stock, but would not advise people to get into this stock, unless they wanted results after a long time.

Im not sure time is on their side ,with cap raising and all.....they really need a break

It will be interesting to see if the failed ''Trumpcare'' means Obamacare is here to stay for a long while and companies act accordingly.

Just how long do negotiations with institutions take?

[psychic]

U move 'em up and u move 'em down, u move 'em around!

In the period from the last disclosure, as part of normal on-market trading activity under discretionary investment mandates, Harbour Asset Management Limited purchased 11,910,516 PEB shares for a gross consideration $6,969,261.97 and sold 6,203,501 PEB shares for a gross consideration of $3,766,508.93. As a result of these transactions Harbour Asset Management Limited, has, at the date of this notice a relevant interest in 42,314,248 (11.085%) PEB shares.

In the period from the last disclosure, as part of normal on-market trading First NZ Capital Securities Limited sold 1,333,788 PEB shares. As a result of these transactions, First NZ Capital Securities Limited, has, at the date of this notice, a relevant interest in 96,746 (0.00025%) PEB shares.

As a result of these transactions, First NZ Capital Group Limited (which includes the related body corporates, Harbour Asset Management Limited and First NZ Capital Securities Limited), has, at the date of this notice, a relevant interest in 42,410,944 (11.109%) PEB shares.

Reads like normal fund balancing to me, significantly on the buy side, and old hat at that (Dec 2016) It's kinda what Fund Managers do Balance.

[Balance]

Reads like normal fund balancing to me, significantly on the buy side, and old hat at that (Dec 2016) It's kinda what Fund Managers do Balance.

Move 'em up, and sell 'em down, then move 'em round and around.

In confusion, the minnows swim up and swim down.

[Defater]

Just trying to Balance things up and have decided to stick to the Cheerleaders and not with the Goon Squad.

[Balance]

posted 23th Nov 2013 Good on you Hancocks, I'm with you 100%. I'm waiting for this Great Company to for fill it's FULL POTENTIAL, all the Doom and Gloomers should sell their shares now and buy something they believe in, maybe Virgin Galactic.

Sp was over $1.25 then, and before two further dilutory capital raisings since then - so keep with the cheer leading crowd!

Chief Cheerleader Hancocks has of course long departed from this scene, deleting all (yes, every single one) of his bullish and rar-rar-rah postings. :D

[skid]

Just trying to Balance things up and have decided to stick to the Cheerleaders and not with the Goon Squad.

Not much else to go on ,is there?

[psychic]

Not much else to go on ,is there?

Loads, but likely not discussed on this forum, pointless really. Balance recalls all lot of rah rah rah from Hancocks. I recall his sharing a lot of good research, not sp commentary.

Sure, this has taken longer than anticipated. There is no handbook for success and introducing game changing science to this sector, proving clinical validity and utility, changing clinical practice, it has been a long slog for sure. But, they are getting there, despite the ignorance and derision often posted here. I'm proud of what these talented people at PE are doing and the difference they will make to healthcare and understand it's a long game.

Anyways, have a read of this. I'd imagine it may be followed by something larger, but it's publication will challenge current AUA recommendations on the use of Urinary biomarkers and is another important peg in the ground.

It'll happen.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12325-017-0518-7

[psychic]

extracts for the lazy...


Following the disclosure of information from Cxbladder in the Triage and Detect modalities, 292 invasive procedures were requested. This represented a 31% reduction compared with primary evaluation of the referral data. Specifically, the use of flexible cystoscopy and CT scans was reduced by 44% and 20%, respectively, and while the increased intention to use a rigid cystoscopy following disclosure of results from Cxbladder in the Triage modality was maintained, fewer requests were made once data from Cxbladder in the Detect modality was also disclosed.

All participant physicians displayed a change in their diagnostic behavior, either increasing or decreasing the number of invasive procedures in at least one case (Fig. 2). Overall, invasive diagnostic tests were eliminated in 82 (31.7%) interactions following the disclosure of additional diagnostic information provided to the physicians from Cxbladder in the Triage and Detect modalities


and


Until now, the clinical utility of molecular diagnostic tests used in patients with hematuria has been unclear, as early non-invasive urine tests, currently available in the market, lack the clinical resolution necessary for inclusion in diagnostic guidelines [11]. Hematuria may be caused by a number of diseases and conditions, resulting in most patients being worked-up for the possibility of UC in the absence of a non-invasive urine test offering sufficient clinical resolution to effectively triage out patients with possible UC [11]. The outcome of this study challenges the assertion that urologists should not pursue urine-based molecular markers for UC detection in the initial evaluation of hematuria [9].

Cxbladder is effective in ruling out patients who have a low probability of UC in its Triage modality [18]. Furthermore, its Detect modality can also be applied to the same urine sample to assess the risk of UC, and to segregate patients accordingly [19]. The present study demonstrates that Cxbladder overcomes concerns that the use of molecular diagnostics in patients with hematuria can lead to the detection of more cases of UC, but only at the cost of unnecessary invasive investigations [10]. Using Cxbladder in the Triage and Detect modalities in tandem may have utility in decreasing the clinical burden on urologists and healthcare systems by reducing the number of total procedures, including invasive procedures, performed, while assisting with the accurate detection of UC. Patients could also expect fewer adverse events and improved quality of life by avoiding invasive procedures

[Balance]

Loads, but likely not discussed on this forum, pointless really. Balance recalls all lot of rah rah rah from Hancocks. I recall his sharing a lot of good research, not sp commentary.

Sure, this has taken longer than anticipated. There is no handbook for success and introducing game changing science to this sector, proving clinical validity and utility, changing clinical practice, it has been a long slog for sure. But, they are getting there, despite the ignorance and derision often posted here. I'm proud of what these talented people at PE are doing and the difference they will make to healthcare and understand it's a long game.

Anyways, have a read of this. I'd imagine it may be followed by something larger, but it's publication will challenge current AUA recommendations on the use of Urinary biomarkers and is another important peg in the ground.

It'll happen.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12325-017-0518-7

http://bmcmedresmethodol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12874-015-0036-8

Nothing new there really.

[Balance]

Not much else to go on ,is there?

Not really much to cheer leading about, is there?

Sp down over 50% (yes, over 50%) since Nov 2013 and company came begging for more capital twice from shareholders who have already lost money in previous capital raisings.

If this is worth cheering about, heavens better help the biomedical profession in NZ!

[When the bass drops]

The company is probably within 6 months of signing a big deal with one of those 'transformational' customers, however timing with this won't be a certainty. Still a rough time ahead as they continue to burn through cash. I always had the view their 2015 capital raise would not be the last, and so I felt the $8m share placement earlier in the year was it.

Keep in mind also that as it was only $8m raised, and not another say $35m, the company probably believes they are close to a big deal being signed. By close, realistically some time this year.

Assuming a deal is signed this year, it may be 6-12 months before the company brings the benefits to their bottom line. So I expect the share price to jump (keeping with this assumption) and then gradually reduce for a period again.

Just my gut feeling with 2017 (I'm not going to reveal spreadsheets of regression analysis and a Chi-squared test to back my statements in this post). Time will reveal all.

[When the bass drops]

Or I take the alternate view that the company is on the verge of failure and that they are not likely to sign any deal with a transformation customer, hence Game over within two years as big institutional investors start to pull out their investment. I expect some of you, with no skin in the game, would relish this happening just so that you could say you were right.

I know many of you do a lot of research, apply clear thinking and cite other share holding scenarios, hence I will always respect your views no matter how diametrically opposed to mine they are.

Such is the beauty of this marketplace of opinions.

[Balance]

I expect some of you, with no skin in the game, would relish this happening just so that you could say you were right.
.

And you could not be more wrong in that assertion.

However your assertion highlights why there's so much angst and aggro from the cheer leading team towards posters whenever the issue of PEB failing to meet its self stated goals, objectives, milestones and expectations are discussed and brought up.

Because the cheer leading team is so desperate to want to be right - they cannot (and do not want to) see what is wrong!

Nobody wants PEB to fail - save maybe its competitors. Everyone loses - especially the future generation of New Zealanders who desperately need a successful public listed biomed company to blaze the way. Heck, even biomedical companies actually like to have competitors as a greater range of competing products can expand the market for all players.

But those of us who have invested in the company (and divested) based upon its huge promises and stated expectations want the directors and management to be accountable for their failure to deliver. And they have so far been very good at avoiding the hard questions.

And sorry to disappoint, abuse and angst from the cheer leading team will not change that.

Hancocks used extremely derogatory terms like 'fart heads' to abuse other posters who disagreed with him. Well, he has been so wrong to date and they have been right. Wonder what he will now call himself?

[psychic]

http://bmcmedresmethodol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12874-015-0036-8

Nothing new there really.

LMAO. Seriously. And now. all this talk of wanting to see them succeed? What utter BS.

Look. I posted a link to this recent study which demonstrates how Clinicians changed their their treatment plan when given results of Cxbladder Triage and Detect. This is not insignificant. It directly challenges the conclusions in the 2016 AUA guidelines for Bladder cancer treatment. IT WILL BE CITED, and figured in future AUA reviews.

But what'd you do? . Post a link to the study of comparative results of CxBladder Detect/ UroVysion and then say "nothing new there really." Like what, it has something to do with what I've posted?

Debate the issues and perhaps this forum may be of use to others

[When the bass drops]

You make a good case Balance. Although we're on different sides of the ledger, I cannot fault the research you put into your points and arguments. And I agree that you (including posters like Winner69, skid and others) don't want this company to fall over. Your views do keep the 'cheerleaders' honest by providing that other perspective. I certainly wouldn't describe myself as one as I've been also scathing of the timings and missed deadlines, but with the underlying belief they would get it right ultimately.

In terms of Hancocks, I can't speak for him though I would be lying if I said I wasn't a big fan. He is a stalwart of this thread and I honor him daily with every breath I take. But yes, I don't condone unwarranted name calling as a rule. I've openly lumped a lot of posters on this thread into sub groups based on their opinions of PEB, and although I've tried to do it objectively, I too have been guilty of name calling.

This is a marketplace of opinions and no opinion, if well researched and clearly thought out, is a wrong opinion. I've probably lost my cool with the odd comment from you, but it comes down to sharing opposing views, and maybe finding some common ground. And for the record Balance, #respect.

Ultimately, we all hope the Company can sort itself out.

[Schrodinger]

You make a good case Balance. Although we're on different sides of the ledger, I cannot fault the research you put into your points and arguments. And I agree that you (including posters like Winner69, skid and others) don't want this company to fall over. Your views do keep the 'cheerleaders' honest by providing that other perspective. I certainly wouldn't describe myself as one as I've been also scathing of the timings and missed deadlines, but with the underlying belief they would get it right ultimately.

In terms of Hancocks, yep that isn't on at all. This is a marketplace of opinions and no opinion, if well researched and clearly thought out, is a wrong opinion. I've probably lost my cool with the odd comment from you, but it comes down to sharing opposing views, and maybe finding some common ground.

Ultimately, we all hope the Company can sort itself out.

You really think David's going to take you to the promised land? You think he knows how to win deals in the US? How many millions need to be put in to prove a point?

[When the bass drops]

The jury is out Schrodinger. I don't have a lot of baggage with this stock as I only started investing in late 2014.

In terms of David taking me to the promised land, I don't have the remotest idea what that would look like. For my outlay in the stock, I will be pleased when the company signs a deal and the price gets over $1 and maybe reaches the region of February 2014.

[Defater]

Some interesting reading but most probably insignificant to some..
http://www.urologiconcology.org/article/S1078-1439(17)30108-4/fulltext (http://www.urologiconcology.org/article/S1078-1439(17)30108-4/fulltext)

[BullishBear]

Some interesting reading but most probably insignificant to some..
http://www.urologiconcology.org/article/S1078-1439(17)30108-4/fulltext (http://www.urologiconcology.org/article/S1078-1439(17)30108-4/fulltext)
Thanks for that mate. They should definitely have and idea on the composition of one's symptoms, I mean I once in desperation thought I could resurrect from peeing into the Crackenback Lake. But the OZy bloke beside me laughed and said craicking back will ya. Lof.

[trader_jackson]

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/255979.pdf

Interesting... Jackie Walker, CEO of Pacific Edge Diagnostics USA Limited (some say one of the best people in PEB) paid nearly 6 figures recently to buy Ordinary shares... if she thought they didn't have a chance, I doubt she would have put a substantial amount of money PEB's way... I suppose she could always sell them for a profit (an SSH notice at a later date would confirm this if this was to occur).

I note CDY, which I believe is correlated in some way to PEB has skyrocketed recently, under heavy volumes as well... hmm

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/255979.pdf

Interesting... Jackie Walker, CEO of Pacific Edge Diagnostics USA Limited (some say one of the best people in PEB) paid nearly 6 figures recently to buy Ordinary shares... if she thought they didn't have a chance, I doubt she would have put a substantial amount of money PEB's way... I suppose she could always sell them for a profit (an SSH notice at a later date would confirm this if this was to occur).

I note CDY, which I believe is correlated in some way to PEB has skyrocketed recently, under heavy volumes as well... hmm

Oh wow! She paid 36.29c per share vs market price of 57c - so that definitely shows GREAT confidence in the company?

[winner69]

I take it our Jackie also needs to file Disclosure thingie as well

That could be interesting

[Dentie]

Oh wow! She paid 36.29c per share vs market price of 57c - so that definitely shows GREAT confidence in the company?

You seem to be obsessed with dissing this Company Balance - all because you didn't make the dosh you thought you were going to! How dare they treat Balance in this way!!!! Get over it for god's sake will you - most others have. A broken record is much nicer listening to.....

The point is...Jackie didn't have to spend .1c on the shares.

:t_up:

[Balance]

I take it our Jackie also needs to file Disclosure thingie as well

That could be interesting

Yup W69.

Will be very very interesting indeed - especially when you consider that the price on the options she exercised is way way below market price, and a review of the options granted to executives (page 40 below) showed none at that price was ever granted!

http://www.pacificedgedx.com/assets/investor-files/PEB-ANNUAL-REPORT-2016.pdf

So how did she get to exercise at such highly favorable terms?

[winner69]

Yup W69.

Will be very very interesting indeed - especially when you consider that the price on the options she exercised is way way below market price, and a review of the options granted to executives (page 40 below) showed none at that price was ever granted!

http://www.pacificedgedx.com/assets/investor-files/PEB-ANNUAL-REPORT-2016.pdf

So how did she get to exercise at such highly favorable terms?

That was my thinking when I looked .....maybe our Jackie has her own incentive scheme

And this was only 33.33% of them

[blackcap]

Yup W69.

Will be very very interesting indeed - especially when you consider that the price on the options she exercised is way way below market price, and a review of the options granted to executives (page 40 below) showed none at that price was ever granted!

http://www.pacificedgedx.com/assets/investor-files/PEB-ANNUAL-REPORT-2016.pdf

So how did she get to exercise at such highly favorable terms?

I also note that there is no escrow period and the shares rank equally with other fully paid ords. She could sell the lot tomorrow if she so wished. Although that is usually the case with exec options. What is really strange is that they are exercisable at about half the SP and the Sp has never been below or close to that ex price. I struggle to see the "incentive" element in these options?

[skid]

You seem to be obsessed with dissing this Company Balance - all because you didn't make the dosh you thought you were going to! How dare they treat Balance in this way!!!! Get over it for god's sake will you - most others have. A broken record is much nicer listening to.....

The point is...Jackie didn't have to spend .1c on the shares.

:t_up:

Despite your exclamation marks ..there is a flaw in your logic--Buying shares at far less than the current share price is not what many would call simply having faith in the success of the company---Can you think of some of the other reasons why she,or most anyone would do this?---If you cant, then perhaps offer me your shares at that price,and I will gladly take you up on that...(sometimes experience helps to understand)

With the cap raising i guess they had to come up with a different angle for bonuses,that was'nt to blatent....but yes.. err..I guess she didnt HAVE to do it.

[Dentie]

Despite your exclamation marks ..there is a flaw in your logic--Buying shares at far less than the current share price is not what many would call simply having faith in the success of the company---Can you think of some of the other reasons why she,or most anyone would do this?---If you cant, then perhaps offer me your shares at that price,and I will gladly take you up on that...(sometimes experience helps to understand)

With the cap raising i guess they had to come up with a different angle for bonuses,that was'nt to blatent....but yes.. err..I guess she didnt HAVE to do it.

Instead of trying to rush in to display your undoubted prowess in anything share related Skid - have another read of what I posted, then think about what my post was related to and lastly, why I posted it....then, maybe, you might connect the dots.

(Sometimes taking a moment to understand another poster's viewpoint before clambering to "attack the keyboard" may help to strengthen your experience).

[Baa_Baa]

Yup W69.

Will be very very interesting indeed - especially when you consider that the price on the options she exercised is way way below market price, and a review of the options granted to executives (page 40 below) showed none at that price was ever granted!

http://www.pacificedgedx.com/assets/investor-files/PEB-ANNUAL-REPORT-2016.pdf

So how did she get to exercise at such highly favorable terms?

What's your theory, it's unlike you to leave an open question hanging?

[Balance]

What's your theory, it's unlike you to leave an open question hanging?

Directors (via the notice today) passed a resolution today to authorize the exercise of the options.

This is highly unusual as the terms of the options issued to executives are very clear - an issue price is set and the options vest and are exercisable over 3 years, 1/3rd each year of complete employment. The vesting and exercise of the options into ordinary shares are an automatic process and DOES NOT require a directors' resolution.

So why was there a resolution? Conclusion must be that the terms of the options to her had to be revised - exercise price reduced to grant her an immediate gain.

One way to keep an executive happy, I guess, at shareholders' expense. Yet another PEB special.

PS. Been around too long not to pick up such things - just as I picked up the donation of Snakk shares to a charitable trust by one Derek Handley was a disguise for him to sell shares at the same time.

[Baa_Baa]

Directors (via the notice today) passed a resolution today to authorize the exercise of the options.

This is highly unusual as the terms of the options issued to executives are very clear - an issue price is set and the options vest and are exercisable over 3 years, 1/3rd each year of complete employment. The vesting and exercise of the options into ordinary shares are an automatic process and DOES NOT require a directors' resolution.

So why was there a resolution? Conclusion must be that the terms of the options to her had to be revised - exercise price reduced to grant her an immediate gain.

One way to keep an executive happy, I guess, at shareholders' expense.

Something that PEB is very good at doing.

PS. Been around too long not to pick up such things - just as I picked up the donation of Snakk shares to a charitable trust by one Derek Handley was a disguise for him to sell shares at the same time.

Surely the other Directors with options would have secured the same or similar rights to exercise, as a quid pro quo to receiving their vote of support, otherwise it would be inequitable to those other Directors as well, albeit as you are suggesting it is inequitable to shareholders? If so, one might anticipate others exercising their options at significant discount to current share price?

How about telling the whole story, in as much as you see it. I doubt anyone is in any doubt regarding your views on the state of the company but what you are suggesting in terms of equity/inequity and what may follow, which is another dimension?

[Balance]

Surely the other Directors with options would have secured the same or similar rights to exercise, as a quid pro quo to receiving their vote of support, otherwise it would be inequitable to those other Directors as well, albeit as you are suggesting it is inequitable to shareholders? If so, one might anticipate others exercising their options at significant discount to current share price?

How about telling the whole story, in as much as you see it. I doubt anyone is in any doubt regarding your views on the state of the company but what you are suggesting in terms of equity/inequity and what may follow, which is another dimension?

Why are options issued at market price (or a small discount - normally, up to 10%) at set times to executives? Incentive for them to perform and reap the benefits of a rising sp (from set levels) - or so it is often stated.

When directors pass a resolution to reduce the exercise price (note W69 and I have gone through the annual report and there are NO options issued at 36.29c ever), it goes against the underlying principle of why the options were issued in the first place.

But hi, this is PEB and there I rest my case.

Market still awaiting news of Tan Tock Seng Hospital User Program for Cxbladder 22 months after the big announcement - that's PEB too.

[winner69]

Hey Balance - how many shares / options did our Jackie have an interest in prior to today?

[Balance]

Hey Balance - how many shares / options did our Jackie have an interest in prior to today?

Tried to find out but all a bit too hard.

Number exercised suggests she has around 800,000 options.

[t.rexjr]

Stretching out the coffers by getting the shareholders to pay the wages...

[Balance]

Stretching out the coffers by getting the shareholders to pay the wages...

Good way of putting it.

[skid]

Instead of trying to rush in to display your undoubted prowess in anything share related Skid - have another read of what I posted, then think about what my post was related to and lastly, why I posted it....then, maybe, you might connect the dots.

(Sometimes taking a moment to understand another poster's viewpoint before clambering to "attack the keyboard" may help to strengthen your experience).

''The point is'' ---You were making a point...but imo there was a flaw in your logic about the point you were making --(Your stuff about Balance was beside the point-- If you want to make that your main point,,say so----the issue was about Jackies motivation to buy the shares--(or take the gift)...if you want to use it as a veil to have a go at another poster ,so be it.----whats more important in terms of PEB..your opinion of Balances investing motivations...or Jackie Walker getting a bunch of cheap PEB options?

[arc]

Just finished running the peb logic-scenario through the machine; Unusual events tend to be prescient flags to impending actions, manipulated option prices are a significant flag. With the minimal amounts of publically available data, and admittedly insufficient amounts to generate any form of relative degree of certainty vs validating forward extrapolations, my rough estimate is that something is happening behind the scenes, and certain people are repositioning ready for future events. Just how the event(s) turns out is yet to be seen.

[winner69]

Just finished running the peb logic-scenario through the machine; Unusual events tend to be prescient flags to impending actions, manipulated option prices are a significant flag. With the minimal amounts of publically available data, and admittedly insufficient amounts to generate any form of relative degree of certainty vs validating forward extrapolations, my rough estimate is that something is happening behind the scenes, and certain people are repositioning ready for future events. Just how the event(s) turns out is yet to be seen.

Good or bad events?

[arc]

Good or bad events?

Unknown, its all just present actions with probable/statistical/theoretical outcomes.
I may be completly wrong and its just another method of collecting delayed salary, or not?

Has their PR front gone quiet lately?

[Balance]

Unknown, its all just present actions with probable/statistical/theoretical outcomes.
I may be completly wrong and its just another method of collecting delayed salary, or not?

There will be hell to pay if the Board approved a major variation, as in reducing the exercise price of options before they lapse so an executive can grab hold of the shares and something happens.

Remember PEB has already been fined $500k by FMA for breach of disclosure rules. ExChairman and CEO also have not covered themselves in glory selling shares after the infamous 'several tens of thousands of tests' comment.

[skid]

Just finished running the peb logic-scenario through the machine; Unusual events tend to be prescient flags to impending actions, manipulated option prices are a significant flag. With the minimal amounts of publically available data, and admittedly insufficient amounts to generate any form of relative degree of certainty vs validating forward extrapolations, my rough estimate is that something is happening behind the scenes, and certain people are repositioning ready for future events. Just how the event(s) turns out is yet to be seen.

Its an interesting concept ,but certainly buying a bunch of shares at market price make for a stronger case on the good scenario side--To me it seems far more likely that it is a way of rewarding a key player in an atmosphere of tight money. (Not necessarily making a value judgement on that -they would certainly not be the first as it has become pretty common place)...one thing for sure ..not much to go on these days.
Obamacare has survived for the time being. So how does this affect the medical community on a whole in the US? Is there more certainty?

[Balance]

Its an interesting concept ,but certainly buying a bunch of shares at market price make for a stronger case on the good scenario side--To me it seems far more likely that it is a way of rewarding a key player in an atmosphere of tight money. (Not necessarily making a value judgement on that -they would certainly not be the first as it has become pretty common place)...one thing for sure ..not much to go on these days.
Obamacare has survived for the time being. So how does this affect the medical community on a whole in the US? Is there more certainty?

Even more uncertainty as Trump just announced he wants to work with the Democrats to revamp healthcare!

[arc]

There appears to be support for the peb operation, personally I wish them well, its a tough climate and I suspect globally it can only get tougher.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/299321

[blackcap]

There appears to be support for the peb operation, personally I wish them well, its a tough climate and I suspect globally it can only get tougher.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/299321

you mean this bit?
Summary for Clarity Funds Management Limited
(a) total number held in class: 0
(b) total in class: 399,277,161
(c) total percentage held in class: 0%

Details of transactions and events giving rise to substantial holding
Details of the transactions or other events requiring disclosure: Substantial holding due
to business reorganisation on 03/04/2017 which gave rise to a relevant interest
for Investment Services Group due to ownership of Devon Funds Management
Limited and Clarity Funds Management Limited.


They announced their SSH the other day because they were swapping from one fund to another. Not actually buying any more...

[Xerof]

wot blackcap said - just a change of underlying fund relevant interests

[winner69]

Has their PR front gone quiet lately?

Only come out to play when share price gets down to 53/54 and the instos give Dave a ring "Dave, time for another announcement. Doesn't matter what as long as its excitingly positive'

[When the bass drops]

It's not specifically been discussed, but if there comes a time where some institutional investors aren't buying anymore of the stock (whether in the primary of secondary markets) it's because their portfolios are already overweight principally with this kind of investment.

I know of an insto that is strongly of the belief PEB will succeed, but cannot buy more of the stock because they are already overweight, and the focus is on ensuring the interests of their members are maintained. i.e. Maintaining a set portfolio risk level and not adding to it.

So my point is basically if there is a time in future when instos are not buying, its not for the exact same reason each time.

[artemis]

"Liquid biopsy' looks like the way forward, rather than invasive procedures. There is a mention of bladder cancer in the item. So the field is expaning very fast and PEB might well be overtaken.

'This week, at the humongous (20,000-plus attendee) annual meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research, there were no less than 130 presentations, “poster” sessions, and panels on liquid biopsy studies'

http://fortune.com/2017/04/04/brainstorm-health-04-04-intro/

[BullishBear]

"Liquid biopsy' looks like the way forward, rather than invasive procedures. There is a mention of bladder cancer in the item. So the field is expaning very fast and PEB might well be overtaken.

'This week, at the humongous (20,000-plus attendee) annual meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research, there were no less than 130 presentations, “poster” sessions, and panels on liquid biopsy studies'



http://fortune.com/2017/04/04/brainstorm-health-04-04-intro/

No point of backing the single issue you need to support the profession and Orion need some of this. 99c worth of Opinion.

[skid]

Even more uncertainty as Trump just announced he wants to work with the Democrats to revamp healthcare!

I suppose its a step in the right direction ,but until something is on paper,I agree,more uncertainty---I would think investors would be looking at infrastructure and banks rather than healthcare atm.(and maybe arms manufacture)

[BullishBear]

I suppose its a step in the right direction ,but until something is on paper,I agree,more uncertainty---I would think investors would be looking at infrastructure and banks rather than healthcare atm.(and maybe arms manufacture)

Uncertainty of uncharted waters, needs a holistic approach in investing!

Is that a recognised strategy? And that 1st rule if there is not one: is the one "in" 'In'vesting from the beginning receives the greatest rewards.

[Balance]

In the news :

https://www.genomeweb.com/cancer/urine-dna-test-shows-potential-early-bladder-cancer-detection-danish-team-reports-amp-global

http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/news/bladder-cancer-test-shows-high-sensitivity

https://www.israel21c.org/bladder-cancer-monitor-gets-ce-mark-lung-cancer-test-next/

[When the bass drops]

Yep, Pacific Edge needs to be weary of the competition coming up behind them like the technology of a Nucleix.

But as I've said before:
1) Who is Nucleix targeting in terms of markets? Is it the same medical professional group PEB is targeting? ie. US urologists
2) How far in the hoop-jumping cycle are Nucleix. Bar a favoritism route, they will have many a thing to tick off to catch up to the existing players. The road to profile, respect and credibility is a long non-linear one.
3) What is to say PEB aren't planning on the development of smarter methods of doing the tests, contrary to their CxBladder suite. They would be silly not to be surveying the new innovative approaches out there, and looking to capitalize on them in their own space.
4) The nearer competition to PEB remains the other tests they have outperformed in clinical trials, and the old methods the likes of PEB are trying to replace or compete with. UroVysion FISH will be fighting hard to remain one of the pre-eminent tests, and will hope the big customers PEB has got in board will give PEB a resounding 'no' at the 11th hour. We'll leave it to urologists and urological groups, when given all the new and old choices available, to make this call.

[skid]

Did you say ''on board'' ?

[When the bass drops]

Woops skid. I should have said 'on their books' or atleast something less inflammatory than "on board"... silly me.:eek2::p I'll give a trigger warning next time.

[Minerbarejet]

10% is Pacific Edge's stated aim in the US market with four different products covering from initial haematuria to monitoring after an operation for bladder cancer for years afterwards.

So who is going to be doing the other 90% when they get that far with that kind of coverage?

And more to the point who else has that kind of coverage to start with?

[skid]

Woops skid. I should have said 'on their books' or atleast something less inflammatory than "on board"... silly me.:eek2::p I'll give a trigger warning next time.

Well ...ok then...:):).......(makes me nervous talking ''trigger'' with all this Syria stuff going on):ohmy:

[When the bass drops]

Agreed skid ... :)

[Leftfield]

PEB's April 2017 newsletter just out. Same old. Same old....... oops better be careful, as I might be seen as unBalanced. ;)Awaiting May's financial update with interest.

https://nzx.com/files/attachments/257154.pdf

[When the bass drops]

Not much insight in this update. There won't be very much insight in the May update either - probably news of marginally growing operating revenue - the cash remaining will be down. They will need one of the big boys on their books to agree to buy a significant bulk of tests - and soon.

[When the bass drops]

Although its nice to see these updates, the real meaty ones will involve agreements to buy X of the tests. https://www.genomeweb.com/molecular-diagnostics/pacific-edge-bladder-cancer-recurrence-test-outperforms-others-head-head

[pierre]

Although its nice to see these updates, the real meaty ones will involve agreements to buy X of the tests. https://www.genomeweb.com/molecular-diagnostics/pacific-edge-bladder-cancer-recurrence-test-outperforms-others-head-head

Looks like your link is behind a paywall WTBD.


Might be better reading it here: http://www.pacificedgedx.com/news-and-events/news/2017/pacific-edge-bladder-cancer-recurrence-test-outperforms-others-in-head-to-head-comparison/

Only three weeks till the full year result announcement - and that is usually prefaced a week or two earlier by a "good news" announcement of some kind. Hopefully the report above is not all we're going to get!

What we really need to read is that this kind of news has turned into real commercial success - with some major USD revenue, either in the bag or close to it.

[skid]

Looks like your link is behind a paywall WTBD.


Might be better reading it here: http://www.pacificedgedx.com/news-and-events/news/2017/pacific-edge-bladder-cancer-recurrence-test-outperforms-others-in-head-to-head-comparison/

Only three weeks till the full year result announcement - and that is usually prefaced a week or two earlier by a "good news" announcement of some kind. Hopefully the report above is not all we're going to get!

What we really need to read is that this kind of news has turned into real commercial success - with some major USD revenue, either in the bag or close to it.

Its not an easy environment to be working in (USA) at the moment--How in the world can anyone make a decision on a big contract with this madness going on. Unfortunately the masses (that represent the numbers) are not being looked after very well. The rich elites are certainly winning atm.

The good news is that Medicare has not been touched so far

[skid]

For those who think things in the USA are on a level playing field

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/tawdry-tales/

[Ace]

8840
For those who are interested I saw this on the inside of a Dunedin airport cubicle and I think it has been here for a while haha. The orientation isn't correct as I'm on the phone at the moment. I also saw pamphlets at my local GP.

[Ninefingers]

That is interesting Ace. I wonder if they have any in US airports yet...

[Balance]

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-05-urinary-bladder-cancer-discomfort-money.html

https://www.genomeweb.com/policy-legislation/fda-approves-roches-pd-l1-test-bladder-cancer

[winner69]

Hope revenues are still growing faster than expenses (in % terms)

Suppose we'll find out tomorrow eh t_j

[psychic]

Good to see you posting something that demonstrates just how far ahead of the pack Pacific Edge is Balance.....
(or did you hope this latest "threat" might spook the herd?)

From the first article, the hopeful developers of a competitor test say..

"The plan is to have a solidly documented proposal for such a tag, or rather a small set of tags, by the end of 2017. By then, we should have come far enough for Inven2 to start looking for business partners who can develop our tags into a commercially viable test for bladder cancer," Lind says.



Professor Lind adds that the researchers have encountered some unexpected practical challenges during the project. It proved to be very time-consuming to collect the urine samples that was needed in the project

Urine is not the best environment for cells, and if stored too long, the cells will lyse and the DNA will be lost. Therefore, the researchers had to organize a system that allowed fresh samples to be sent by taxi three times a day from the Department of Urology on the east side of Oslo, to the research department some eight miles further to the west.
"We take turns to carry a dedicated cell phone, and the researcher on "sprint duty" have to run to the hospital's entrance every time a taxi arrives with a sample. Thereafter, he or she rushes to our laboratory to centrifuge the urine, and finally we freeze the cells to be studied later," Lind explains.


(my bold)

I don't have access to the Roche test in the second article but is this just a companion marker for it's treatment drug?

[trader_jackson]

Hope revenues are still growing faster than expenses (in % terms)

Suppose we'll find out tomorrow eh t_j

Lets hope so (and that I have some new batteries for my calculator ;))

[When the bass drops]

Thanks for that psychic. I'm sure PEB are shaking in their little bladder boots at such a fierce rival ;)

[Balance]

Fascinating reactions, aren't they?

Tells a lot about the confidence of those who hold PEB shares?

[winner69]

Fascinating reactions, aren't they?

Tells a lot about the confidence of those who hold PEB shares?

Do you think David wil use the words 'exciting' and 'transformational' a lot tomorrow

[Xerof]

Do you think David wil use the words 'exciting' and 'transformational' a lot tomorrow

"Thats a great question, Winner"

[When the bass drops]

Your talking points are fascinating too mate, ofcourse.

The first reaction was I didn't feel Roche would be a near term (or medium term) threat to the likes of PEB's products, in terms of market share, growth and sales. In the longer term, its very possible PEB will be hauled in by something superior (maybe their own technology?)

All I can image here (comically maybe) is half a dozen well dressed gentleman driving around like Jason Statham off Transporter trying to get urine samples to headquarters against the clock. :D

[Balance]

Do you think David wil use the words 'exciting' and 'transformational' a lot tomorrow

For the sake of PEB long suffering shareholders who have endured so much excitement,

Excitement which have transformed them to excitable individuals hanging onto the words of the transformatively Aborgenized DD,

Here's hoping that said transformed excited DD will deliver some solid numbers and solid updates on the numerous exciting user programs.

Then, there will be much rejoicing and exuberance excitement.

Think that will happen? :D

Note : Defn of excite: to make someone have strong feelings of happiness and enthusiasm. That's DD!

PS. Devon & Tindall have been reducing their shareholdings - think they may have become too over-excited? Westpac and Salt are however ready for the final transformation of PEB.

[Minerbarejet]

Whatever you think you are trying to accomplish with these latest efforts we all wish you well in your endeavours, Balance
However, tomorrow is a different story.
So lets wait and see before we get too emotional about everything.
I have taken what necessary steps for any outcome.
Do have a nice day tomorrow,
Cheers
Miner

[Balance]

Whatever you think you are trying to accomplish with these latest efforts we all wish you well in your endeavours, Balance
However, tomorrow is a different story.
So lets wait and see before we get too emotional about everything.
I have taken what necessary steps for any outcome.
Do have a nice day tomorrow,
Cheers
Miner

Chill, MBJ - PEB has provided us all with considerable emotions over the last few years and dare I say, fun too!

So we surely cannot let the occasion of the highly anticipated reporting of its results for the 4th year of its post-commercialization program go unnoticed without comments the day before.

Wonder what is in store!

You feeling the transformative excitement before the results?

Defn of excite: to make someone have strong feelings of happiness and enthusiasm.

Defn of transform: to change completely the appearance or character of something or someone.

[winner69]

How the hell can you have $3.2m of bad debts .......when sales have hardly reached that level?

Maybe previous reported sales weren't sales after all

[blackcap]

I had a look at the latest results.. the cash flow bit did not look too promising:


Cash received from customers $8,596

Cash paid to suppliers $26,458

Cash from operations $(17,837)

Cash in bank $14.5m... how long can that last?

However sales are improving by 35%pa so it will not take too long, the $100m mark is not far off.

[trader_jackson]

How the hell can you have $3.2m of bad debts .......when sales have hardly reached that level?

Maybe previous reported sales weren't sales after all

Hmm this is interesting... anyone have any ideas?

On a more positive note, I think this is the first time PEB have beaten consensus forecast (of 9.4m revenue), reporting 9.5m.

Great to see those operating revenues growing way faster than expenses!

Today's results overall were pretty good I thought... finally we have an idea when 'transformational customers' will come on board, being next (well this) year.

[Ggcc]

I feel a capital raise around the corner

[trader_jackson]

I had a look at the latest results.. the cash flow bit did not look too promising:


Cash received from customers $8,596

Cash paid to suppliers $26,458

Cash from operations $(17,837)

Cash in bank $14.5m... how long can that last?

However sales are improving by 35%pa so it will not take too long, the $100m mark is not far off.

You're right... probably wont take long: Operating Revenue up 62%... and we haven't even seen the transformational customers come on board... which has been confirmed to happen this year.
3m in first half, 5m in 2nd half... revenue still very skewed to 2nd half (similar story last year, 1.8m, 3.1m)

Ggcc, I would not disagree with a capital raising, although depends when these transformational customers come online, if it is first half (ie now), then won't be required.
Operating cash flows and underlying losses have stabilised - another positive (and we haven't even seen the transformational customers come on board... which has been confirmed to happen this year - PEB haven't previously put a date on this... must be confident)

[winner69]

Jeez t_j your post 3 paragraphs and 3 transformationals ...don't get too excited

You DD's best mate?

[Balance]

Jeez t_j your post 3 paragraphs and 3 transformationals ...don't get too excited

You DD's best mate?

It's catching!

[Ninefingers]

10s of thousands of tests! :blush:

[Schrodinger]

Good to see the USA grow but the cost of sales for the growth is unacceptable (not scaleable).

6-8 months cash left minus a quick cutback in expenditure. The next raise valuation will be interesting. Big question mark is on the slowdown in revenue and the key strategic question is to keep the under-performing sales team or trim R&D/sales team (OHE style).

Salvageable if they get realistic with their forecasts. I still cant see how this is worth $200M sub $100M (30c or less).

[Balance]

10s of thousands of tests! :blush:

Was supposed to happen in 2014 so only 3 years behind schedule.

As long as they get there before the next capital raise?

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Hope they still on track for that $100mil revenue after 5 years of US trading. Must be those transformational customers that'll get them there.

[winner69]

Hope they still on track for that $100mil revenue after 5 years of US trading. Must be those transformational customers that'll get them there.

At current running rate if they get to $100m sales bad debts will be $30m (conservatively)

[Schrodinger]

At current running rate if hey get to $100m sales bad debts will be $30m (conservatively)

So 1.5 years to get another $92M? Or stretch it out like WDT and use $200M cash to get $100 sales?

Balance or others....did you manage to find the test throughput for USA I want to know their average sales per test. I cant find it in the docs.

USA revenue is $7.8M.

[winner69]

The F16 accounts had this bit -


No allowance for bad debts have been recognised for the year ended 31 March 2016. Amounts overdue but not impaired are as follows:
- $2,398,052 is within 0 – 180 days old
- $967,510 is within 181 – 365 days old
- $882,046 is over 365 days old but is still expected to be recovered.

Total receivables were $4.8m at March 16 - $3.2m now written off - WTF - not really acceptable

Only sensible conclusion - most of all past sales were really 'free trials' as some have suggested on here (but invoiced in hope of being paid)

At least its a non cash expense this year PEB say - ha ha

[blackcap]

The F16 accounts had this bit -


No allowance for bad debts have been recognised for the year ended 31 March 2016. Amounts overdue but not impaired are as follows:
- $2,398,052 is within 0 – 180 days old
- $967,510 is within 181 – 365 days old
- $882,046 is over 365 days old but is still expected to be recovered.

Total receivables were $4.8m at March 16 - $3.2m now written off - WTF - not really acceptable

Only sensible conclusion - most of all past sales were really 'free trials' as some have suggested on here (but invoiced in hope of being paid)

At least its a non cash expense this year PEB say - ha ha

I noticed that bit. What is telling its not the usual 0-30 days, 30-60 days and 90+ days (pretty much write off) its that they go from 0- half year, half year to year and then the bit that's over 365 days but still expected to be recovered... that got the biggest smile from me.

[Balance]

T

Total receivables were $4.8m at March 16 - $3.2m now written off - WTF - not really acceptable

Only sensible conclusion - most of all past sales were really 'free trials' as some have suggested on here (but invoiced in hope of being paid)

At least its a non cash expense this year PEB say - ha ha

Egg all over the face of those in the company and the posters who chose to believe them that there were no 'free trials'.

That was actually so clear from the receivables level climbing year after year mirroring so called sales growth.

Biggest joke is that PEB had actually been paying royalties on those 'sales'!!!!!!!

[winner69]

Egg all over the face of those in the company and the posters who chose to believe them that there were no 'free trials'.

That was actually so clear from the receivables level climbing year after year mirroring so called sales growth.

Biggest joke is that PEB had actually been paying royalties on those 'sales'!!!!!!!

Auditors must have believed this transformational stuff

[winner69]

Current ageing of receivables

Amounts overdue but not impaired are as follows:
- $3,759,078 is within 0 – 180 days old
- $1,475,945 is within 181 – 365 days old
- $766,057 is over 365 days old but is still expected to be recovered


Plus the $612k recognised as impaired (conservatively of course)

[Balance]

Quick summary:

1. Sales increased by $3.1m - expenses increased by $7.6m

2. Cash outflow of $17.8m vs cash in the bank of $14.6m

3. Bad & doubtful debts of $3.25m.

4. Of receivables of $6.5m, $5.8m overdue but management confident of payment (!).

5. Of receivables of $5.7m as at March 2016, $4.2m overdue but management confident of payment, so no bad or doubtful debt provided for in F16 (!).

Wonder how the market would have reacted to the real sales numbers in the last 2 years now we know most of the sales were probably 'fictitious'.

[blackcap]

Quick summary:


Wonder how the market would have reacted to the real sales numbers in the last 2 years now we know most of the sales were probably 'fictitious'.

So the 35% increase in sales revenue is fictitious as well? I mean if the prior numbers were fictitious and this years also maybe just maybe they are raising sales revenue? However it will be interesting to see of this latest "revenue" how much is actually received in cash.... and how much is put into the 0-180 days category at the 6 month report. Also will be pertinent to see how much of the 0-180 now is rolled into the 180-365 and how much is actually received.

[Balance]

So the 35% increase in sales revenue is fictitious as well? I mean if the prior numbers were fictitious and this years also maybe just maybe they are raising sales revenue? However it will be interesting to see of this latest "revenue" how much is actually received in cash.... and how much is put into the 0-180 days category at the 6 month report. Also will be pertinent to see how much of the 0-180 now is rolled into the 180-365 and how much is actually received.

Bluntly - shocking accounting and auditing.

Goes against the key underlying accounting principles of conservatism, consistency, matching and materiality.

How the heck did the auditors signed off on the accounts?

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Bluntly - shocking accounting and auditing.

Goes against the key underlying accounting principles of conservatism, consistency, matching and materiality.

How the heck did the auditors signed off on the accounts?

Probably gave them a few free tests.

[Minerbarejet]

Receivables due FY 16 5,730,031.

This was one year ago.

Current FY 17 Receivables 365 days or older 766,057.

So remainder of FY 16 receivables have been paid
4,963,974

The current crop of receivables are from FY17 business plus 766,057

[hardt]

Someone please explain why and how the market values PEB at $200m...

[Schrodinger]

Did some rough calcs: $7.8M/10k = $780 per test (not sure where they get the $2,000+ ($1500 USD) on the presentation). They are getting 60% less than that.

Slide 11 CEO pres mentions $1500 USD ($2055 @.73) per test: some discounting going on here. Their market value calcs need to be reworked. Also need to present the actual market situation for USA. Who has test market share % wise of the 3.1 million.

Rough numbers put PEB @ 0.3% share in USA. 99.7% are going to others.

Basic message: get more commercial please (board/management issue?)

[stoploss]

Did some rough calcs: $7.8M/10k = $780 per test (not sure where the get the $1500 on the presentation). They are getting 50% less than that.

Maybe they do a "buy one get one free" with the testing places :)

[Meister]

I was expecting the price to drop significantly today but the sellers don't seem willing to budge.

[Snow Leopard]

Receivables due FY 16 5,730,031.

This was one year ago.

Current FY 17 Receivables 365 days or older 766,057.

So remainder of FY 16 receivables have been paid
4,963,974

The current crop of receivables are from FY17 business plus 766,057

You forgot the $2,635,279 written off.

So only $2,328,695 paid.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Minerbarejet]

You forgot the $2,635,279 written off.

So only $2,328,695 paid.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
Yeah, thanks PT.
Maybe they will have better cash coming through from now on.

Still doesnt alter the current receivables though and of note is that the majority are 0 to 180.
Think this whole thing rotates around CMS as we know PEB is a medicaid provider and PEB have also stated that they offer patient assistance for those that cant afford it.
Nobody turned away so to speak.
Good business ethics I would have thought, more or less on a par with CDY offering free Evolis to cancer sufferers on completion of chemotherapy.

[blackcap]

You forgot the $2,635,279 written off.

So only $2,328,695 paid.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

That's interesting, thats like more than half of receivables written off. So they are selling products to people/businesses that cannot pay? So effectively giving credit to customers that are not credit worthy?

[Minerbarejet]

And right down the bottom, this little gem

At the date of signing the financial statements, the Company is in advanced negotiations with a number of prospective

commercial customers for the provision of services.

The first of these new contracts has been signed and the Directors are confident that the other negotiations will be successful.

( my bold)

[Snow Leopard]

That's interesting, thats like more than half of receivables written off. So they are selling products to people/businesses that cannot pay? So effectively giving credit to customers that are not credit worthy?

I would be cautious about drawing conclusions purely from those numbers.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Balance]

And right down the bottom, this little gem

At the date of signing the financial statements, the Company is in advanced negotiations with a number of prospective

commercial customers for the provision of services.

The first of these new contracts has been signed and the Directors are confident that the other negotiations will be successful.

( my bold)

Yup - like all those lovely past sales which are now bad debts?

[Snow Leopard]

And right down the bottom, this little gem

At the date of signing the financial statements, the Company is in advanced negotiations with a number of prospective

commercial customers for the provision of services.

The first of these new contracts has been signed and the Directors are confident that the other negotiations will be successful.

( my bold)

Heh miner, you forgot the next paragraph:

'However, in the event that these contract negotiations are not successful, a decrease in forecast cash flows may occur. In which case, a material uncertainty would exist which may cast significant doubt on the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern. In this event, the Company may be unable to realise its assets and discharge its liabilities in the normal course of business. The Directors have a number of operational options available to them, including cost management and seeking additional funding.'

(my bold).

The day will come when either the company will not exist or that paragraph will not exist in the Accounts (and the Auditors will not need to tag them).

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Minerbarejet]

Heh miner, you forgot the next paragraph:

'However, in the event that these contract negotiations are not successful, a decrease in forecast cash flows may occur. In which case, a material uncertainty would exist which may cast significant doubt on the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern. In this event, the Company may be unable to realise its assets and discharge its liabilities in the normal course of business. The Directors have a number of operational options available to them, including cost management and seeking additional funding.'

(my bold).

The day will come when either the company will not exist or that paragraph will not exist in the Accounts (and the Auditors will not need to tag them).

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger
I was more concerned with the one contract that had been signed and to its identity rather than cluttering up the thread with a bunch of everyday caveats regarding future possibilities.

[Balance]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/sales-boost-marred-record-loss

6 months trading and the cash runs out according to Craigs.

Wonder if that takes into account the fake sales?

[winner69]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/sales-boost-marred-record-loss

6 months trading and the cash runs out according to Craigs.

Wonder if that takes into account the fake sales?

But sales are 'ramping up' with these transformational customers coming on board - exciting times indeed

[Balance]

But sales are 'ramping up' with these transformational customers coming on board - exciting times indeed

In all seriousness, excitement and transformation promises are not going to be sufficient to keep faith in this company comes the next capital raise in 6 months' time (if not earlier).

The market is going to want to see some of the transformative customers come aboard. Given PEB's track record of over-promising and over-hyping*, given the turmoil of healthcare reforms in the States - brave person to bet on a favorable outcome.

Already two long time supporters, Devon & Tindall, are starting to quit the scene. Salt and Westpac were there for the last placement - will they be there for the next capital raising?

Time is not on PEB's side any more.

* December 2013 : Swann is confident the company will be processing "several tens of thousands of tests" during 2014.
Actual tests sold in 2016/2017 - 11,246

[Balance]

In fact, extrapolating PEB's 35% increase in lab throughput in F2017 and 114% increase in F2016 from announced 11,246 tests done in F2017:

Actual number of tests done in FY15 was 3,893!

A long long long way below the 'several tens of thousands of tests' referred to in previous post by Chairman Swann.

Fake promises and fake sales!

[winner69]

Gee whiz - PEB share price falling faster than OHE share price

Total loss of confidence in both?

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/283037

Revenue $4.98m
Loss $15.45m
Cash $24.16m

So revenues better than expected but losses even more so, resulting in lower cash at balance date.

Big red flag : sales increased by $3m but receivables increased by $3.4m !!!!!!

(basically, still giving the stuff away).

Posted in May 2016 when the FY16 results were announced - BIG RED FLAG!

VERY BIG RED FLAG!

[winner69]

Posted in May 2016 when the FY16 results were announced - BIG RED FLAG!

VERY BIG RED FLAG!

PEB lost $24m of its market cap today

Probably the present value of future bad debt writeoffs

Those bad debts were a shocker - and they called them abnormal to 'normalise' the loss - suppose they were abnormal in reality

[Minerbarejet]

Posted in May 2016 when the FY16 results were announced - BIG RED FLAG!

VERY BIG RED FLAG!Maybe they are launching into China.:)

[trader_jackson]

I believe the bad debts could actually be made "un-bad" in the future however, I too was concerned about this... although I would not call it fake sales (yet... Forsyth didn't seem to think so)

Overall, numbers were ok... but no transformational sales yet... however, for the first time ever, they seem to have indicated this will happen this year... how much and when will be (literally) the million (maybe tens of millions) dollar question.

I remember when Balance on (or about) the 20th of October last year (7 months ago) mentioned that a capital raising isn't far off... here we are today with millions still in the bank and at least 6 months (assuming no transformational customers) before we might get to close to where OHE is today (very little cash)

The retail sellers today and late yesterday clearly don't want to wait around - and I can remotely liaise with them... PEB haven't managed to 'nail it' yet, although the words seem to be improving/more definitive. They have a great product, great people, and great investors (many institutions... which could be good if it comes to a cap raise)... it seems politics (not trump, just the politics involved in healthcare) and/or skepticism could be getting in the way.

Unlike some members on sharetrader, I won't ramp a stock up (for example PEB), make statements of non stop buying, then restate things in a very short period of time... about 1.5 years ago (2015 half year) I said they have 2 years to 'get things sorted' before I'll be 'seriously reviewing' them... October half year will be crucial.

[jonu]

Genuine question for Balance and Winner. Do you think this company has a future?

Personally I think it does, but seems pretty obvious it will need a cap raise or bank facility of some sort to see it through to profitability.

It would be good to know who the recent contract was signed with and what the revenue expectations are from it. I actually bought into it at around this level in I think late 2013, a couple of months before it went bananas. Sold my last lot of that purchase around 1.55 and been in and out a couple ot times since.

Discl: not holding

[Balance]

I remember when Balance on (or about) the 20th of October last year (7 months ago) mentioned that a capital raising isn't far off... here we are today with millions still in the bank and at least 6 months (assuming no transformational customers) before we might get to close to where OHE is today (very little cash)

$8m capital raised in February 2017 - near enough from far off?

[winner69]

Genuine question for Balance and Winner. Do you think this company has a future?

Personally I think it does, but seems pretty obvious it will need a cap raise or bank facility of some sort to see it through to profitability.

It would be good to know who the recent contract was signed with and what the revenue expectations are from it. I actually bought into it at around this level in I think late 2013, a couple of months before it went bananas. Sold my last lot of that purchase around 1.55 and been in and out a couple ot times since.

Discl: not holding

I would hazard a guess that if it was 'material' it would have had to be disclosed to the market - yes?

Does PEB have a future - I hope so so we can say NZers did something great. But the story is getting rather boring isn't it. Maybe reached the stage where miracles might need to happen.

Disc: made heaps trading PEB and did donate $15,000 of cash to them in one capital raise. Seems they have squandered my donation. Keep on close watch - might make heaps again. You never know.

[Balance]

Genuine question for Balance and Winner. Do you think this company has a future?

Personally I think it does, but seems pretty obvious it will need a cap raise or bank facility of some sort to see it through to profitability.

It would be good to know who the recent contract was signed with and what the revenue expectations are from it. I actually bought into it at around this level in I think late 2013, a couple of months before it went bananas. Sold my last lot of that purchase around 1.55 and been in and out a couple ot times since.

Discl: not holding

It CAN have a future provided certain things happen - like delivering on sales.

The company has done well so far stringing investors, shareholders and the market via capital raisings with hype, false promises and fake sales.

At the current rate of spend, PEB will go broke unless it raises capital within the next 6 months.

Whether it can raise more capital will depend on its ability to sign a profitable contract with the so-called transformative customers. As previously written, I personally will not bet on it happening - given the company's track record and the healthcare turmoil in the States.

[winner69]

$8m capital raised in February 2017 - near enough from far off?

So without that $8m in Feb would have had only $6m left at March

[Balance]

So without that $8m in Feb would have had only $6m left at March

Yup - and by now will have less than $3m left!

[Hoop]

Hands up all those who break the successful investing rule of still holding shares during a prolonged downtrend.(39 months and counting).

[artemis]

Pacific Edge tantalisingly close to breakthrough sales, Darling says - NBR headline yesterday. Behind the paywall now but he also said that there are 4 contracts under negotiation and only one is needed to reach break even.

Unclear if that includes the one signed up, but assume no since the NBR item was only yesterday.

[BigBob]

Pacific Edge tantalisingly close to breakthrough sales, Darling says - NBR headline yesterday. Behind the paywall now but he also said that there are 4 contracts under negotiation and only one is needed to reach break even.

Unclear if that includes the one signed up, but assume no since the NBR item was only yesterday.

Here's the audio of the interview with DD....: https://player.fm/series/nbr-radio-newscommentary/pacific-edge-says-its-close-to-key-sales-breakthroughs

A couple of months... or four to six... maybe... :-)

[Balance]

Here's the audio of the interview with DD....: https://player.fm/series/nbr-radio-newscommentary/pacific-edge-says-its-close-to-key-sales-breakthroughs

A couple of months... or four to six... maybe... :-)

Reminds me of all the expectations hyped up by PEB and missed - hard to even list them these days as there are so many!

Still, 'several tens of thousands' in 2014 and delivering less than 4,000 has to be #1 ...!!!

Then, there's the 'last' capital raising to take the company to profitability - followed by 2 more!

And the latest will have to be the 'sales' which turned into 'receivables' which turned 'bad'!

[skid]

Geez....go away for awhile and its in the 40s..well,almost 50 still.. (is DDs talk in response?)

Of course no one knows whats going on behind the scenes but whatever it is ,its happening with a backdrop of talk of cuts to medicare.

Those dicks over there are not helping things much these days ,with their transference of wealth from the poor and middle class ..to the rich.

[sb9]

Big cross trade..



3
6
10:44:54 am
48
4,851,124
$2,328,540
Off Market

[trader_jackson]

Off market? Big insto selling or buying or both?

[winner69]

Off market? Big insto selling or buying or both?

BUYING of course at this price eh

[sb9]

Off market? Big insto selling or buying or both?

All I can say is that there's seller and there's a buyer :p

[trader_jackson]

BUYING of course at this price eh

Maybe old Gregory who dumped nearly all his shares in EVO ($2.3m dollars ish) is buying into a true growth company? ;);)

[Balance]

BUYING of course at this price eh

But of course!

And looks like who-ever is 'buying' is continuing to buy from whoever is selling at 50c - in volume.

[Balance]

But of course!

And looks like who-ever is 'buying' is continuing to buy from whoever is selling at 50c - in volume.

Think may have finished BUYING, W69?

SP looking friendless today.

[trader_jackson]

https://nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/302058

Another institution to add to the increasingly long list of insto's on PEB's shareholder list?

After the usual retail panic (every now and then, eg around the close today), and increasing buying from insto's, are there any retail holders left?

[winner69]

https://nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/302058

Another institution to add to the increasingly long list of insto's on PEB's shareholder list?

After the usual retail panic (every now and then, eg around the close today), and increasing buying from insto's, are there any retail holders left?

you for one

sorry - u asked for that

does superlife still hold

[trader_jackson]

you for one

sorry - u asked for that

does superlife still hold

Yes me for one...
This year should be the one winner69 ;)... but as I've maintained for the past 1.5 years, they have 2 years on the clock... I'll pull PEB out of the bottom draw around half year results... and I'm sure I won't be the only one... with the current price of SUM other investments, it is tempting to pull it out now ;)

Not sure about superlife... anyone know?
Haven't seen too many (if any) SSH's regarding insto's selling out...

[Balance]

Not sure about superlife... anyone know?
Haven't seen too many (if any) SSH's regarding insto's selling out...

Devon and Tindall have been selling. In case of Tindall, below 5% so no more SSH notices from him unless he has been increasing.

[kiwidollabill]

Yes me for one...
This year should be the one winner69 ;)... but as I've maintained for the past 1.5 years, they have 2 years on the clock... I'll pull PEB out of the bottom draw around half year results... and I'm sure I won't be the only one... with the current price of SUM other investments, it is tempting to pull it out now ;)

Not sure about superlife... anyone know?
Haven't seen too many (if any) SSH's regarding insto's selling out...

I think Superlife swapped the ownership into some of their daughter companies a few months back, their name will no longer appear on the shareholder list as before.

[When the bass drops]

Yes me for one...
This year should be the one winner69 ;)... but as I've maintained for the past 1.5 years, they have 2 years on the clock... I'll pull PEB out of the bottom draw around half year results... and I'm sure I won't be the only one... with the current price of SUM other investments, it is tempting to pull it out now ;)

Not sure about superlife... anyone know?
Haven't seen too many (if any) SSH's regarding insto's selling out...

SuperLife has 20,591,622 shares in PEB when combining their NZ shares and Gemino portfolios (off the website)

About 5.2% so they're a regular disclosure holder. 6th largest holder possibly.

I would imagine (due to lack of sell downs en masse from SL) that like Devon etc they will be intent to see PEB through to profitability and further.

[trader_jackson]

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/report/pacific-edge7/preview/

The latest from Edison... valuation increases from $1.10 to $1.12 per share (released 1 June)
Forsyth also maintained their outperform rating, with a target of 95 cents a share (released 25 May)

You'd like to think that surely something is just around the corner?
(It really needs to be for these valuations to be remotely accurate)

[Balance]

http://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/research/report/pacific-edge7/preview/

The latest from Edison... valuation increases from $1.10 to $1.12 per share (released 1 June)
Forsyth also maintained their outperform rating, with a target of 95 cents a share (released 25 May)

You'd like to think that surely something is just around the corner?
(It really needs to be for these valuations to be remotely accurate)

Same Edison who had a valuation of Snakk at between $2.20 and $3.00? Now 10.5c.

Guess must be same Edison which valued Vmob (now PleXXXure) at 95c? Now 10c.

Something was around the corner alright - light at the end of the tunnel was a .......! (Fill in blank). :D

[blackcap]

Same Edison who had a valuation of Snakk at between $2.20 and $3.00? Now 10.5c.

Forget Edison, they also had a valuation of over $1 on CRP, now at less than 1 cent. I do not trust paid for (by the company) analysis. That said the Forbarr valuation is interesting.

[winner69]

t_j I still update my DCF valuation I did at the time I was donating cash directly to the company (went towards paying Swan's salary Balance said)

Currently that valuation of mine stands at $1.26 - based on the past assumptions of success and hundreds of thousands of tests and $100m sales sometime.

Valuation doesn't change much over the years - just that all numbers keep getting pushed out every year

I'm sure Edison and Forbar valuations are based on a successful PEB - I betcha they have no more idea whether PEB will succeed than you, me, Balance and others. They wouldn't know if something is "just around the corner"

Keep the faith though

[percy]

t_j I still update my DCF valuation I did at the time I was donating cash directly to the company (went towards paying Swan's salary Balance said)

Currently that valuation of mine stands at $1.26 - based on the past assumptions of success and hundreds of thousands of tests and $100m sales sometime.

Valuation doesn't change much over the years - just that all numbers keep getting pushed out every year

I'm sure Edison and Forbar valuations are based on a successful PEB - I betcha they have no more idea whether PEB will succeed than you, me, Balance and others. They wouldn't know if something is "just around the corner"

Keep the faith though

W69.
"Faithfull Investor" may be more appropriate than "The Bees Knees"...............................PTL..

[Balance]

Forget Edison, they also had a valuation of over $1 on CRP, now at less than 1 cent. I do not trust paid for (by the company) analysis. That said the Forbarr valuation is interesting.

And Edison says that their research is independent and objective! Despite being paid by the company!

As for Forbar, the company would have to be up there with the best (or worse) of corporate work-based research and recommendations. Who can forget Feltex and Credit Sails.

[Baa_Baa]

Who can forget ...

No chance of that while the self appointed conscience of the market can still draw breath and has a keyboard.

[winner69]

W69.
"Faithfull Investor" may be more appropriate than "The Bees Knees"...............................PTL..

Percy - please keep Pushpay out of the discussion please. Remember PPH is my PEB

PEB could be a great punt again - imagine the excitement when David says its all signed up and we have already banked $10m - share price will rocket to $1.70 again. I might miss the first few cents of the rise but who cares, 80 cents to 160 is still doubling your money

[percy]

Percy - please keep Pushpay out of the discussion please. Remember PPH is my PEB

PEB could be a great punt again - imagine the excitement when David says its all signed up and we have already banked $10m - share price will rocket to $1.70 again. I might miss the first few cents of the rise but who cares, 80 cents to 160 is still doubling your money

Yes that "born again" WDT signals there may be redemption for PEB shareholders.
Where there is life there is hope ?
And while there is hope,another cash issue will again test the faithfull's faith, in their "David.".

[janner]

Yes that "born again" WDT signals there may be redemption for PEB shareholders.
Where there is life there is hope ?
And while there is hope,another cash issue will again test the faithfull's faith, in their "David.".


Ouch !!! Yes WDT has dropped .. How ever perc I am still ahead of you in the comp with my re-newed faith.. :-)))

Not material whether it is the OLD WDT or the NEW WDT.. ( Same ... Same.. Same.. )

Going to beat you this year.. :-))

[percy]

Ouch !!! Yes WDT has dropped .. How ever perc I am still ahead of you in the comp with my re-newed faith.. :-)))

Not material whether it is the OLD WDT or the NEW WDT.. ( Same ... Same.. Same.. )

Going to beat you this year.. :-))

It comes a a very great surprise,and embarrassment to me, that at the present time I find myself not "well positioned" in the comp.
This has been compounded by my "lack of faith",not including my largest holding,HBL in the comp.
Yet the comp has some time to run,and I am living in "hope," that I will "rise again" to my proper position, of being ahead of you..............lol.

[When the bass drops]

First bit of activity for 9 days on this thread

https://www.urotoday.com/conference-highlights/bladder-cancer-academy-2017/96454-bladder-cancer-biomarkers-new-and-old.html

[Balance]

http://www.sharecafe.com.au/tc.asp?a=AV&ai=44375

Sienna Cancer Diagnostics's IPO will provide an excellent comparison point (performance and valuation) for how PEB is tracking (in real terms) against its 5 year goal of US$100m revenue.

Some very valuable information for those who want to have a better idea of the market for the tests - including the reimbursement process in the US.

https://events.miraqle.com/sdx-ipo/New-Shareholder-Offer/

Some very stark contrasts between PEB and Sienna.

Guess the market will now have the opportunity to critically assess the differences between the two.

For starters, Sienna is already making profits but only has a market cap of $37m at listing vs PEB's $190m - Sienna has spent a fraction of the hundred million dollars PEB has burnt through so far!

[trader_jackson]

This did catch my eye a few days back Balance.... operating cash flow positive as well I note.

What is interesting, aside from great growth, is how they seem to be reducing their Employee and contractor costs, Administration, R&D expenses, if these had not reduced, they would certainly not have made a profit in the first 6 months... although I haven't read to deeply (yet) into how they managed to achieve this (just know it is quite unusual for an apparent growth company to be spending less and less on these kinds of expenses).

Disclosure: Still holding PEB, but interested in this IPO

[Balance]

This did catch my eye a few days back Balance.... operating cash flow positive as well I note.

What is interesting, aside from great growth, is how they seem to be reducing their Employee and contractor costs, Administration, R&D expenses, if these had not reduced, they would certainly not have made a profit in the first 6 months... although I haven't read to deeply (yet) into how they managed to achieve this (just know it is quite unusual for an apparent growth company to be spending less and less on these kinds of expenses).

Disclosure: Still holding PEB, but interested in this IPO

Strategy is diametrically opposite to that of PEB - that's why. Read 6.5 onwards in the prospectus.

Not for them the horrendously high overheads of building up sales, marketing and distribution in the US and other jurisdictions (NZ, Oz, Asia and Spain) but use the distribution of established players in the industry, with a FDA product approval.

Notice how low their tests cost versus that of PEB?

The most telling point to me is that Sienna believes they are past early stage and is 'ready for market' with the IPO as opposed to PEB burning through investors' money (with plenty of broken promises and missed milestones along the way).

Anyway, good comparison point with PEB.

[Balance]

Case in point is that Sienna has been covered a few times by posters - as far back as February this year. Repeating previous postings - 'Different strategy altogether to PEB - they are using a JV structure to launch into the US, avoiding the huge setup lab, admin and sales costs by tapping into the distribution (and credibility) of their JV partner. Read their FDA filing. Cost per test to be around US$150.

As alerted to way back in June 2015.

When PEB's sp was 65c.

[kiwidollabill]

http://www.sharecafe.com.au/tc.asp?a=AV&ai=44375

Sienna Cancer Diagnostics's IPO will provide an excellent comparison point (performance and valuation) for how PEB is tracking (in real terms) against its 5 year goal of US$100m revenue.

Some very valuable information for those who want to have a better idea of the market for the tests - including the reimbursement process in the US.

https://events.miraqle.com/sdx-ipo/New-Shareholder-Offer/

Some very stark contrasts between PEB and Sienna.

Guess the market will now have the opportunity to critically assess the differences between the two.

For starters, Sienna is already making profits but only has a market cap of $37m at listing vs PEB's $190m - Sienna has spent a fraction of the hundred million dollars PEB has burnt through so far!



Very impressive board and CEO, their background aligns well to the strategy towards selling 'the juice' in the IHC market - thats where the $$$ is, labs are just factories nowdays.....

[Balance]

Very impressive board and CEO, their background aligns well to the strategy towards selling 'the juice' in the IHC market - thats where the $$$ is, labs are just factories nowdays.....

For anyone who invested in PEB (based upon the millions of tests opportunities and $100m revenue goal), Sienna's IPO document requires proper reading - very careful proper reading.

Sienna is very realistic about the size of the market and how its tests fit in the industry. No outlandish US$350 a test projection here!

[psychic]

You understand that this test is proposed as an adjunct to cytology only right? And there is nothing in there that I can see that tells us just how much it improves the cytology result.

Siena is just raising a few dollars for 18 months w/cap. Comparing Cxbladder to this unpatented, adjunct only test is just silly as is any comparison of how the two companies should go about establishing their validity and market.

[kiwidollabill]

^From a product perspective there is some clear differences between the two which can be argued - cytology vs non-invasive, antigen vs genetic etc..... and I dont think this would be the basis on which company becomes more successful (or cash +ve first).

From a strategic perspective there ARE major differences around how they are looking to commercialise their product and (I would argue) will judge their sucess - direct sales vs distribution network, manufacturer of kit vs lab company

[Balance]

^From a product perspective there is some clear differences between the two which can be argued - cytology vs non-invasive, antigen vs genetic etc..... and I dont think this would be the basis on which company becomes more successful (or cash +ve first).

From a strategic perspective there ARE major differences around how they are looking to commercialise their product and (I would argue) will judge their sucess - direct sales vs distribution network, manufacturer of kit vs lab company

Exactly.

Different strategies at play - one promises huge upside while raising tens of millions of dollars to burn (and fails to deliver on milestones and expectations) while the other lays out the potential upside, after achieving profitability.

[Balance]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/wealth/sienna-cancer-diagnostics-not-without-risk/news-story/ced4cedf0726bcbbe1b5a504f54c2647

Stating the obvious - not without risks.

[Balance]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsAVPbgU-Fg

Sienna CEO talking about IPO.

2,000 pathology labs - some have already adopted the test.

PEB has 2 labs.

[When the bass drops]

You and I both know that Sienna and PEB are not a direct like-for-like comparison, but it is certainly wise for us to be weary about what else is out there.

There are five threats I can think of when making comparison between a company and anybody else:

* Threat to their technology
* Threat to their ability to make deals with customers
* Threat to their market share
* Threat to their revenue streams
* Threat to their share price

And I would only put Sienna as a mild technology threat (in the medium / long term) at this point

[Balance]

I do not see Sienna as a threat to PEB at all! They are both in the same industry however and Sienna provides an excellent comparison to PEB in terms of business strategy and path to sustainable profitability.

PEB is using a very high cost model (burning through $100m of cash with more to be burnt) while Sienna uses a lower cost model, partnering with existing distributors and is already profitable.

One can go broke while the other is already profitable.

[trader_jackson]

Haven't seen too many (if any) SSH's regarding insto's selling out...

(that was posted 1 June - here we have it, an SSH with an insto doing quite the opposite of selling... you'd think insto's probably nearly own the whole company by now?)

https://nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/303270

Old FNZ... they nearly hold 50m shares now!
Maybe they took advantage of the retail panic a few days back?

Winner69, you think they did get the wink wink from DD?

[Xerof]

To be fair, FNZC Securities, have completely sold out. It's Harbour Asset Mgmt who continue buying, as they have done for years now. They are both related body corporates of FNZC Holdings

[mcdongle]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4675542/Bladder-cancer-test-predict-disease-80.html

[Balance]

https://www.genomeweb.com/molecular-diagnostics/mdx-health-launches-bladder-cancer-test-hoping-relationships-urology-market

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-us/cancer-news/press-release/2017-07-07-simple-test-predicts-return-of-bladder-cancer

The search continues.

[davflaws]

So I should dump my PEB and load up on PLX?

[Bing]

No capital raising as yet. Either they are going for broke or they are confident sales are going to cover them.

[Balance]

No capital raising as yet. Either they are going for broke or they are confident sales are going to cover them.

$14.6m cash as at 31 March 2017 - so probably around $10m left given cash burn of around $1.5m a month.

Probably start panicking around October 2017 if one of the 'transformative' customers does not sign by then to convince the last of the believers to stump up with more cash?

[whome]

Anyone have an update on ASX Sienna IPO? Last Monday 17 July was a key date, I think to have investor interest registered at .20 per share. Looked for commentary on media but none found.

[whome]

I see from Hot Copper that ASX listing date for Sienna is second of August.

[winner69]

Message to David from fundies - C'mon Dave, we need a couple of announcements. Doesn't matter what as long as they contain POSITIVE stuff. Exaggerate a little if you have too but better keep the pipe dream stuff alone.

[trader_jackson]

Message to David from fundies - C'mon Dave, we need a couple of announcements. Doesn't matter what as long as they contain POSITIVE stuff. Exaggerate a little if you have too but better keep the pipe dream stuff alone.

Yes I for one have been patiently waiting... things seem very quiet, too quiet

[hummerh40]

Anyone know what's happening here? best guesses? Haven't heard anything of substance in a while now

[Balance]

Anyone know what's happening here? best guesses? Haven't heard anything of substance in a while now

Getting ready for the FINAL capital raising.

[BigBob]

Getting ready for the FINAL capital raising.

I don't often agree with you Balance, but I think you have got this one right... Last chance saloon - boom or bust...!!

[Balance]

http://www.siennadiagnostics.com.au/news/sienna-raises-4-6m-from-ipo

Only A$4.6m raised rather than the $6m they were looking to raise.

Not good!

[t.rexjr]

Phew some news...

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/304969

[When the bass drops]

Meh. It is a pretty minor accomplishment in the scheme of things. Share price won't budge today.

[trader_jackson]

Yes, not the announcement we are looking for (really)

[pierre]

Phew some news...

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PEB/announcements/304969

One small step for man....what we need is the giant leap for mankind!

[winner69]

Message to David from fundies - C'mon Dave, we need a couple of announcements. Doesn't matter what as long as they contain POSITIVE stuff. Exaggerate a little if you have too but better keep the pipe dream stuff alone.

True to form an announcement eh

If this one doesn't get share price back over 50 then expect another POSITIVE announcement soon

[cammo]

Yawn. Press the snooze button and let the thread go back to sleep please.

[Arthur]

Anyone submitting questions for the AGM? Wondering if I should go along. Last I heard Kaiser results were "positive and compelling", but months later (actually years) they still do not seemed to have become a worthwhile customer.

[bonne vie]

Would like to attend AGM but need to be in Christchurch by 1pm Friday to catch a flight.Is anyone by chance going to the AGM in Dunedin and driving back to Christchurch early Friday morning.

[Arthur]

Has anyone used the AGM question link to ask about the previous "fake sales" - the huge number of bad debtors that they wrote off.

[Balance]

Very good question indeed but you will have to ask.

Not from PEB shareholders here will you get such hard-to-answer questions - they cannot and will not want to know and handle the truth.

When the false sales were highlighted in the past via the unbelievably high levels of receivables relative to sales year after year, all kinds of excuses and answers were created to try and explain away the BS. The most infamous excuse was that PEB did not/does not give away free tests!

Smoke and mirror are preferable to cold hard reality.

[pierre]

Has anyone used the AGM question link to ask about the previous "fake sales" - the huge number of bad debtors that they wrote off.



Very good question indeed but you will have to ask.

Not from PEB shareholders here will you get such hard-to-answer questions - they cannot and will not want to know and handle the truth.



Another typical sweeping statement from our friend.

On the contrary Balance, I have a great deal of interest in having that question asked and in obtaining an answer - as I expect do other PEB holders.

Regrettably, I am unable to attend the AGM in person, nor to attend the meeting online, next Thursday 24th as the time clashes with a Board meeting of my own company. Hopefully, another holder will log on at www.linkissuers.co.nz/virtualmeeting and take the opportunity to lodge a question for the directors about the situation.

Is anyone available?

[Bing]

Has anyone used the AGM question link to ask about the previous "fake sales" - the huge number of bad debtors that they wrote off.

Listen to the last investor conference call on the PEB website and you'll have your answer. The "fake tests" were CMS tests that were done for "free" and then added to receivables in the hope that the CMS agreement would be signed soon and the tests could then be charged to CMS.

Of course the agreement has not yet been signed despite the talks "progressing well" year after year so they have had to write them off. David maintains that if the agreement is ever signed then they could have another crack at submitting these tests for payment.

I'm more interested in how the sales are going and how much money is left in the bank. Hopefully we get some answers on Thursday.

[Balance]

Booking free tests as sales and said sales as receivables - year after year!

Whatever happened to one of the most basic guiding principles & concepts out of accounting with PEB - conservatism?

[Balance]

Booking free tests as sales and said sales as receivables - year after year!

Whatever happened to one of the most basic guiding principles & concepts out of accounting with PEB - conservatism?

In fact, I believe that the auditors have not done their job of sticking to the underlying principles of conservatism and matching revenues with expenses when approving past accounts.

The proof is that the receivables were written off.

Guess it goes with the 'hype' mentality of PEB to get capital to burn.

[Bing]

I'm not sure how they got that past the auditors either, I must be honest.

[kiwidollabill]

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/264348.pdf

etc etc....

[Arthur]

AGM thoughts. Bureaucrats and process will decide if the company dies or thrives. The directors admit time is ticking, but say they have no control over the timing of any formative customers. Kaiser is meant to be itching to use the tests, put the paperwork seems never ending. There are so many other things happening at Kaiser that these tests are insignificant to them. When (if) the deal is signed they will be fast to implement (the planning is in place for acceptance). The American director said they were doing well in the CMS process. In his experience progress was faster than he would have expected. On the bright side 2 of the VA centres targeted have already taken the tests on board. They have expanded the target VA centre group to 14, up from an initial 5. Mid Central health is significant, there is high expectations others will be forced to follow their lead.
There was a clinical slide shown at the AGM that provided compelling evidence as the the need for PEB tests. Schedule price is over $2,000 a test (higher than I thought it would be). My gut feeling is that in 5 years this with either have gone under or will be worth $5 a share. I will hold

[Leftfield]

Thanks for sharing. This non PEB holder would like to see them succeed.

[Carpenterjoe]

AGM thoughts.They have expanded the target VA centre group to 14, up from an initial 5.

Thanks Arthur,

I'm keeping an eye on the competition and assisting with company valuations, MDX are releasing their bladder cancer product this year.

http://mdxhealth.com/sites/default/files/MDxHealth%20Corporate%20Presentation.8917.pdf

[Leftfield]

ODT's take on the meeting (https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-investors-have-plenty-questions).....Directors and CEO on notice......$1.5 mill cash burn per month.... clock ticking..... but DD confident costs will be 'contained' this year.

Interesting year ahead for PEB. (Disc; not holding, but watching and waiting.)

[barney]

It was interesting that David D, when talking about the two VA Centers that are now sending in tests, mentioned that they did not need to do user programs for these two centers. Acceptance is slow but appears to be gaining traction.

[Arthur]

Thanks Arthur,

I'm keeping an eye on the competition and assisting with company valuations, MDX are releasing their bladder cancer product this year.

http://mdxhealth.com/sites/default/files/MDxHealth%20Corporate%20Presentation.8917.pdf

Thanks. PEB says these guys will need to pass all of the same hurdles and time delays that they have had to get this far. It might be easier for the second mover. The biggest competition appears to be urologists reluctance to change. Kaiser may well be the key (but I am sure they are aware of that and are playing hardball) The DHBs that have adopted PEB tests quickly reduced their wait lists. Any health bureaucrat worth their salt will realise that using these tests is good PR, saves money and improves patient outcomes.

[winner69]

Did quite a few shareholders vote against David being reelected as a Director?

[trader_jackson]

AGM thoughts. Bureaucrats and process will decide if the company dies or thrives. The directors admit time is ticking, but say they have no control over the timing of any formative customers. Kaiser is meant to be itching to use the tests, put the paperwork seems never ending. There are so many other things happening at Kaiser that these tests are insignificant to them. When (if) the deal is signed they will be fast to implement (the planning is in place for acceptance). The American director said they were doing well in the CMS process. In his experience progress was faster than he would have expected. On the bright side 2 of the VA centres targeted have already taken the tests on board. They have expanded the target VA centre group to 14, up from an initial 5. Mid Central health is significant, there is high expectations others will be forced to follow their lead.
There was a clinical slide shown at the AGM that provided compelling evidence as the the need for PEB tests. Schedule price is over $2,000 a test (higher than I thought it would be). My gut feeling is that in 5 years this with either have gone under or will be worth $5 a share. I will hold

Thank you for your thoughts, it is much appreciated (I am a fellow holder).

I note there was no mentioned of an impending need for capital so things can't be that bad (can they?)


Did quite a few shareholders vote against David being reelected as a Director?

Probably a protest vote - no surprises.

[winner69]

Probably a protest vote - no surprises.
[/FONT]

But 12.66% vote NO for both Williams and our beloved David is some protest

I would hazard it a guess it is a group of some of the larger insto shareholders (seeing similar %ages for both)

More than a protest I reckon - dissatisfaction more like it


Don't directors normally get 99% plus in these things


PS - Balance doesn't have quite that many shares so not him

[trader_jackson]

But 12.66% vote NO for both Williams and our beloved David is some protest

I would hazard it a guess it is a group of some of the larger insto shareholders (seeing similar %ages for both)

More than a protest I reckon - dissatisfaction more like it


Don't directors normally get 99% plus in these things


PS - Balance doesn't have quite that many shares so not him

Could be one of the instos - they do own most of the company these days, they don't want to sell and book a loss (hardly any SSH notices this year), but still want to make a statement that they aren't a happy chappy

[trader_jackson]

But 12.66% vote NO for both Williams and our beloved David is some protest

I would hazard it a guess it is a group of some of the larger insto shareholders (seeing similar %ages for both)

More than a protest I reckon - dissatisfaction more like it

Don't directors normally get 99% plus in these things


You might want to have a look at MPG... 28.4% - thats over 1 in 4 people (not just 1 angry insto) who voted no to Sir John Goulter being elected as a Director of Metro Performance Glass...
(and he's a Sir)

And unlike PEB, 61.2% of the issued capital voted (PEB not even half, 44.1%, voted)... that's what you call dissatisfaction I reckon.

Makes Williams and old DD look like a star in contrast don't you think?

[peat]

they acknowledge the long game......
but once again, on the cusp.

Medical Definition of cusp. 1: a point on the grinding surface of a tooth.

tbh being on this cusp sounds a bit painful

[Arthur]

It was interesting that David D, when talking about the two VA Centers that are now sending in tests, mentioned that they did not need to do user programs for these two centers. Acceptance is slow but appears to be gaining traction.
There are 152 VA Medical Centers and 1400 out patient clinics. If they can gain traction here it will buy them a few more months (seems the biggest short term hope at this stage)

[winner69]

You might want to have a look at MPG... 28.4% - thats over 1 in 4 people (not just 1 angry insto) who voted no to Sir John Goulter being elected as a Director of Metro Performance Glass...
(and he's a Sir)

And unlike PEB, 61.2% of the issued capital voted (PEB not even half, 44.1%, voted)... that's what you call dissatisfaction I reckon.

Makes Williams and old DD look like a star in contrast don't you think?

Getting desperate with your rosé tinted glasses on and clouding your judgement.

There was a concerted public effort to depose Sir John .....bit different eh

No matter how you look at one or two big shareholders voted against Darling and Williams - wonder who they were. Not a protest vote ......sign of dissatisfaction I say

[winner69]

t_j - whatever you and I think I betcha David is gutted that so many voted NO

[Carpenterjoe]

Page 22 shows MDxHealth intent on Kaiser. Hopefully the Cxbladder suite completely out guns the one MDx Assure product.

http://mdxhealth.com/sites/default/files/MDxHealth81917.pdf

more info re mid central

https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/news/2017/august-2017/24/many-patients-to-dodge-cystoscopies-as-midcentral-dhb-signs-up-pacific-edge.aspx

[trader_jackson]

t_j - whatever you and I think I betcha David is gutted that so many voted NO

I hope he is - and he views it as a wake up call - he is still a star compared to Sir John.

Not sure if you are aware but about the same number of votes were cast against all the directors up for re-election last year as well - so probably the same fed up insto - maybe DD shouldn't feel so bad after all.

[winner69]

Fundies to David "time for another announcement. Just make it really positive, even if you need to regurgitate old news just make it positive and make sure it sounds exciting"

[Sgt Pepper]

Fundies to David "time for another announcement. Just make it really positive, even if you need to regurgitate old news just make it positive and make sure it sounds exciting"

PEB
Is it in a death spiral?
Is it a take over target?
Will it rise, phoenix like, and be a $5.00 share by 2020?

[waddis]

PEB
Is it in a death spiral?
Is it a take over target?
Will it rise, phoenix like, and be a $5.00 share by 2020?

Well.....please dont keep us waiting!! please tell us the answer!! please.......

[Balance]

Tick tick tick .... $4.1m or 3 months left in the bank to carry PEB to its transformative future.

Share price weakening so can you hear the begging bowl going around the institutions as it must be capital raising time, folks.

Question is - at what price? The underwriters must be pondering a 1 for 2 at 20c?

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/sales-boost-marred-record-loss

It's September 2017.

Cash burn at $1.75m a month = $10.5m gone by now of the $14.6m left in the kitty at 31 March 2017.

Amazing this company still has a market cap of $180m!

[drcjp]

Just flicking through the CEO slides and notice on slide 13 that PEB still don't have LCD (local coverage decision) for CxBladder from USA regulators. It is this that will be holding up Kaiser, not the study results or anything else. If the test doesn't qualify for reimbursement, Kaiser won't cover it. Has Darling been grilled about that? as it something that PEB CAN and SHOULD control.

[Balance]

Just flicking through the CEO slides and notice on slide 13 that PEB still don't have LCD (local coverage decision) for CxBladder from USA regulators. It is this that will be holding up Kaiser, not the study results or anything else. If the test doesn't qualify for reimbursement, Kaiser won't cover it. Has Darling been grilled about that? as it something that PEB CAN and SHOULD control.

Ever try extracting a tooth from a weasel?