PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[Minerbarejet]

I figured a long time ago.

Which is why I call PEB for what the company is - a sham.

Remember the 'several tens of thousands of tests' and forward booking of revenues (plenty of tests sold, see?) which became receivables and then, were written off?

Guess you are still trying to figure that one out?

Another term could be "cooking the books!"

Staggers me that PEB was allowed to get away with such a gross violation of basic accounting principles without any kind of reprimand!
Excellent. How to give an answer without actually giving one.
I was trying to find out if you actually know why.
If you cant share it here I can only assume that you dont know.
Staggers me that someone can take up a single handed crusade to continuously bash the company based on something the ODT printed.
Pot shots, Balance, from behind a wall, not a good look.

[Balance]

Excellent. How to give an answer without actually giving one.
I was trying to find out if you actually know why.
If you cant share it here I can only assume that you dont know.
Staggers me that someone can take up a single handed crusade to continuously bash the company based on something the ODT printed.
Pot shots, Balance, from behind a wall, not a good look.

Tell us about the fictitious sales, and I will tell you about the FDA.

No crusade here, my friend - just calling PEB for what it is - a sham.

And receiving a lot of thank you's from those who saw the light.

And haha, of course, a lot of angst from those who keep thinking that salvation is just around the next corner - but it's a down winding cycle!

[whatsup]

Slipping lower every day without any positive sales ann this is a sub .20-.25 shortly imo.

[winner69]

Slipping lower every day without any positive sales ann this is a sub .20-.25 shortly imo.

What was the recent cap raise at?

[whatsup]

What was the recent cap raise at?

.34 !!! trouble is " if " and its a very big if they do make meaningful sales break through then the s p will imho be $1 or there abouts followed by a sell off as exhausted long term punters/investors take profits, some getting their money some not!

[winner69]

They rang David up last week and told him ‘share price collapsing Dave, time for another announcement, make something up as long as it exciting and contains big numbers’

And David obliged

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/332091


Disclosure: In case some think this is how things work the story is just pure speculation on my part.

[blackcap]

They rang David up last week and told him ‘share price collapsing Dave, time for another announcement, make something up as long as it exciting and contains big numbers’

And David obliged

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/332091

well said. Another milestone in NZ. But will add zero to the bottom line is what I am thinking.

[Sideshow Bob]

well said. Another milestone in NZ. But will add zero to the bottom line is what I am thinking.

Yes, but in the cents column....

[Dentie]

Miner...the ONLY reason Blabber is still here after all this time is because he doesn't want to miss out when the BIG announcement is finally made. I reckon he lost one hell of a lot of dosh - which is what the motivation is for his denigrating posts. He just can't let it go. Everyone else has moved on but not Blabber...he is still dragging it around with him - like a very large sack of spuds.

Some of Blabber's comments are that close to corporate libel (for want of a better word)...if I was DD, I would be keeping a close eye on this.

Very sad ole' man.

[Balance]

Miner...the ONLY reason Blabber is still here after all this time is because he doesn't want to miss out when the BIG announcement is finally made. I reckon he lost one hell of a lot of dosh - which is what the motivation is for his denigrating posts. He just can't let it go. Everyone else has moved on but not Blabber...he is still dragging it around with him - like a very large sack of spuds.

Some of Blabber's comments are that close to corporate libel (for want of a better word)...if I was DD, I would be keeping a close eye on this.

Very sad ole' man.

On the record - I have made good money on PEB but fortunately woke up to their nonsense and have warned others (who care to read and listen objectively).

And those who heeded my thoughts have saved themselves a lot of grief and some have written to me to thank me.

And yes, I would welcome the opportunity to challenge DD and PEB in court over some of their assertions and behaviour.

Starting with 'several tens of thousands of tests' with no attempts by the company, directors or management to correct and reverse that very public pronouncement.

BRING IT ON!

[Dentie]

On the record - I have made good money on PEB but fortunately woke up to their nonsense and have warned others (who care to read and listen objectively).

And those who heeded my thoughts have saved themselves a lot of grief and some have written to me to thank me.

And yes, I would welcome the opportunity to challenge DD and PEB in court over some of their assertions and behaviour.

Starting with 'several tens of thousands of tests' with no attempts by the company, directors or management to correct and reverse that very public pronouncement.

BRING IT ON!


SO, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BE THE VICTIM AND POSING AS THE WHITE KNIGHT, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS AND TAKE THEM TO THE CORPORATE COURT!

Very easy to throw anonymous grenades from behind the tree Balance and also very easy to be the corporate know all - AFTER THE FACT - but it is a lot harder to make the real business decisions BEFORE THE FACT.

I'll put you to the test....I am sitting here with $50k looking to buy PEB shares but I don't want to lose any money. Can you please advise me when I should do that purchase?

[Schrodinger]

SO, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BE THE VICTIM AND POSING AS THE WHITE KNIGHT, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS AND TAKE THEM TO THE CORPORATE COURT!

Very easy to throw anonymous grenades from behind the tree Balance and also very easy to be the corporate know all - AFTER THE FACT - but it is a lot harder to make the real business decisions BEFORE THE FACT.

I'll put you to the test....I am sitting here with $50k looking to buy PEB shares but I don't want to lose any money. Can you please advise me when I should do that purchase?

Without doubt one of the dumbest posts ever on ST.

[Minerbarejet]

On the record - I have made good money on PEB but fortunately woke up to their nonsense and have warned others (who care to read and listen objectively).

And those who heeded my thoughts have saved themselves a lot of grief and some have written to me to thank me.

And yes, I would welcome the opportunity to challenge DD and PEB in court over some of their assertions and behaviour.

Starting with 'several tens of thousands of tests' with no attempts by the company, directors or management to correct and reverse that very public pronouncement.

BRING IT ON!
Did you get a thank you note from New Guy after his massive loss from heeding your thoughts?

[Balance]

They rang David up last week and told him ‘share price collapsing Dave, time for another announcement, make something up as long as it exciting and contains big numbers’

And David obliged

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/332091


Disclosure: In case some think this is how things work the story is just pure speculation on my part.

Some of DD's utterances in the past which contributed to the sp spiking and boiling hot :

"Cancer diagnostics company Pacific Edge [NZX: PEB] is probably being closely watched by bigger US medical companies waiting for a ripe opportunity to acquire, its chief executive David Darling believes." NBR 2014


"Most new therapeutic developments by companies today require companion diagnostics so that’s a huge opportunity for the company, and so it may require only a limited amount of work by us in conjunction with a partner to bring about quite a significant commercial windfall” Radio NZ Interview with DD on Melanoma test commercialization 2014

And what has happened? ZERO.

[Balance]

Did you get a thank you note from New Guy after his massive loss from heeding your thoughts?

The one message I received from New Guy was not complimentary (I am so hurt and so surprised!) way back in August 2015 when PEB's sp was over 75c.

Not sure when New Guy exited his investment, ST and deleted ALL of his postings!

[winner69]

Balance me old mate ......was always good selling over $1.50 wasn’t it

I don’t regret giving them tens of thousands in cold hard cash once ....that raise announced the day before the share price almost doubled. My cash no doubt towards more test tubes ....or was it for David’s salary.

[Dentie]

Without doubt one of the dumbest posts ever on ST.

...."deliberately dumb" Schrodinger. It actually has a little more depth to it than what you may realise. In any event, I stand by it!!

[Schrodinger]

...."deliberately dumb" Schrodinger. It actually has a little more depth to it than what you may realise. In any event, I stand by it!!

PEB's spend would be acceptable if the sales matched. Its looking like a Wynyard.

[Balance]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-investors-have-plenty-questions

2017 :

"Health provider Kaiser Permanente alone had 400 urologists and Pacific Edge was ''nearing the end of negotiations'' on a commercial agreement. Mr Darling emphasised that when Kaiser adopted a new technology it was watched ''very closely'' by the rest of the US healthcare industry."

Two years later in 2019 :

Guess it means that since Kaiser did not decide to sign up that the rest of the US healthcare industry has duely taken note as well?

2020 :

One gets the feeling that PEB is now going through the motions of its death-throes?

[Balance]

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8953-Snakk/page296

Salutary lesson on what happens when investors and posters fall in love with a stock and cannot see the flaws for the blurred vision!

Then, it's all over :eek2:

[davflaws]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-investors-have-plenty-questions

2017 :

"Health provider Kaiser Permanente alone had 400 urologists and Pacific Edge was ''nearing the end of negotiations'' on a commercial agreement. Mr Darling emphasised that when Kaiser adopted a new technology it was watched ''very closely'' by the rest of the US healthcare industry."

Two years later in 2019 :

Guess it means that since Kaiser did not decide to sign up that the rest of the US healthcare industry has duely taken note as well?

2020 :

One gets the feeling that PEB is now going through the motions of its death-throes?

I have no idea whether PEB will be going through the motions of its death throes in 2020, but clearly you have believed it was a dog for a number of years now.

But as at March 2019, do you also believe that KP has "decided not to sign" rather than "not signed yet"?

[Balance]

I have no idea whether PEB will be going through the motions of its death throes in 2020, but clearly you have believed it was a dog for a number of years now.

But as at March 2019, do you also believe that KP has "decided not to sign" rather than "not signed yet"?

PEB's PR spin has spun out of control into the ditch and PEB is now backtracking like crazy on the hype it placed on an agreement with Kaiser :

2014 - 4.5 years ago : "Kaiser Permanente signs up for Cxbladder" (WOW!)

2016 - 2.25 years ago :"Positive Results in Kaiser Permanente User Programme" (OH WOW!)

2017 - 2 years ago : "Commercial negotiations with integrated healthcare insurer and provider, Kaiser Permanente, are expected to conclude shortly!" (WOW! WOW!)

2017 - 1.5 years ago : "Commercial negotiations are progressing positively with Kaiser Permanente, following the compelling and positive results of the large scale evaluation of Cxbladder User Programme in late 2016. Contemporaneously with this, Pacific Edge has been working with Kaiser’s staff on the necessary business elements to ensure that the start-up of commercial tests can occur expediently following the completion and signing of the agreement." (Eh - must mean any day now, right?)

2018 - 10 months ago : ".... to conclude negotiations with Kaiser Permanente" (Conclude - means must be close?)

2018 - 5 months ago : "....including Kaiser Permanente" (Eh - what about the agreement????)

How long does a negotiation takes? If I am charitable, then it will probably be another 5 years - given that PEB has only delivered revenues of $2.3m in HY2019 and is likely to deliver less than $6m for FY19 or 6% (yes, 6%) of the projected aim of $100m in 2019!!!!

But best not to be charitable with PEB - they have burned through $200m of funds (CR one after another) by making hyping up prospects one after another.

So what else can any logical person conclude, except that Kaiser has decided not to sign - 2 years on from when 'negotiations are to be concluded shortly'?

Take off those rose tinted glasses and read through the PR spin (now in the ditch).

[stoploss]

Has anyone ever asked them what Kaiser actually signed up for in 2014 ? What was in the agreement that was signed ?

[minimoke]

Has anyone ever asked them what Kaiser actually signed up for in 2014 ? What was in the agreement that was signed ?From 2105 Annual report

"One of our biggest achievements in FY15 was signing a User Programme with Southern
California Permanente Medical Group (SCPMG) which employs more than 5,500
physicians. They will evaluate the performance of our Cxbladder Triage test in their
specific clinical settings with 2,000 patients who present with haematuria. Kaiser has
many organisations vying for their internal research resources and we are very pleased
they have selected the Cxbladder User Programme."

[psychic]

From 2105 Annual report

"One of our biggest achievements in FY15 was signing a User Programme with Southern
California Permanente Medical Group (SCPMG) which employs more than 5,500
physicians. They will evaluate the performance of our Cxbladder Triage test in their
specific clinical settings with 2,000 patients who present with haematuria. Kaiser has
many organisations vying for their internal research resources and we are very pleased
they have selected the Cxbladder User Programme."

https://www.kp-scalresearch.org/research/Scientist.aspx?eid=556
(click studies tab)
The Director of Research at Kaiser lists the Cxbladder study as current, but Balance knows best eh

[minimoke]

https://www.kp-scalresearch.org/research/Scientist.aspx?eid=556
(click studies tab)
The Director of Research at Kaiser lists the Cxbladder study as current, but Balance knows best eh
The quote I gave you was from the 2015 annual report so would have been referencing something in 2014.

The link you posted suggests the research has yet to commence.

So peb has not been generous with the information provided in the annual report. I would go as far as saying it is misleading

[psychic]

To me it suggests the study has yet to conclude...

[Balance]

To me it suggests the study has yet to conclude...

If the study is not concluded, how can PEB made these statements way back in 2017?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/311131

Excerpt : "Commercial negotiations are progressing positively with Kaiser Permanente, following the compelling and positive results of the large scale evaluation of Cxbladder User Programme in late 2016. Contemporaneously with this, Pacific Edge has been working with Kaiser’s staff on the necessary business elements to ensure that the start-up of commercial tests can occur expediently following the completion and signing of the agreement."

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/301590

Excerpt : " Commercial negotiations with integrated healthcare insurer and provider, Kaiser Permanente, are expected to conclude shortly following the successful analysis of the large scale User Programme which delivered positive and compelling results."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is crystal clear from the PEB statements above that the KP study was not only concluded but so successfully concluded that negotiations were underway and an agreement was imminent!

Now you have really sounded loud ringing high decibels alarm bells (if not screaming sirens) for PEB shareholders! :scared:

[kiwidollabill]

To me it suggests the study has yet to conclude...

On this researchers CV....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwimqKbS9ZLhAhUaT30KHdgiC3oQFjABegQIAxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsph.umich.edu%2Ffaculty-profiles%2Fpdf%2Flwallner.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2X2OD4qPyFeJCTYPBkmBdu


Finished end of 2015

[psychic]

On this researchers CV....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwimqKbS9ZLhAhUaT30KHdgiC3oQFjABegQIAxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsph.umich.edu%2Ffaculty-profiles%2Fpdf%2Flwallner.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2X2OD4qPyFeJCTYPBkmBdu


Finished end of 2015

Pacific Edge funding may have - yes, but Kaiser's analysis? Good find, but should we rely on someone's 2016 C/V found on the internet?

[Balance]

Pacific Edge funding may have - yes, but Kaiser's analysis? Good find, but should we rely on someone's 2016 C/V found on the internet?

Don't beat around the bush. Answer from 2017 : "Compelling & Positive results"

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/311131

Excerpt : "Commercial negotiations are progressing positively with Kaiser Permanente, following the compelling and positive results of the large scale evaluation of Cxbladder User Programme in late 2016. Contemporaneously with this, Pacific Edge has been working with Kaiser’s staff on the necessary business elements to ensure that the start-up of commercial tests can occur expediently following the completion and signing of the agreement."

So was PEB lying?

[Balance]

Don't beat around the bush. Answer from 2017 : "Compelling & Positive results"

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/311131

Excerpt : "Commercial negotiations are progressing positively with Kaiser Permanente, following the compelling and positive results of the large scale evaluation of Cxbladder User Programme in late 2016. Contemporaneously with this, Pacific Edge has been working with Kaiser’s staff on the necessary business elements to ensure that the start-up of commercial tests can occur expediently following the completion and signing of the agreement."

So was PEB lying?

The silence is deafening.

Guess it's a very hard swallow either way for PEB die-hards to try and ignore the spin?

[pierre]

The silence is deafening.

Guess it's a very hard swallow either way for PEB die-hards to try and ignore the spin?

I think the silence is easily explained.

Most readers of this thread have fallen asleep, bored witless by the interminable tedious rantings of one acidic poster.
If the ravings continue, I shouldn't expect much more reaction from anyone for quite some time.

Now time for me to roll over and resume my snooze.

[davflaws]

I have no opinion about whether PEB was lying, but if you refine your question it may help.
Were they lying about their negotiations progressing positively? I think it unlikely - do you know something?
Were they lying about working with KPs staff to ensure a running start once the agreement was signed? Again, I think it unlikely - do you know something?

[Balance]

I have no opinion about whether PEB was lying, but if you refine your question it may help.
Were they lying about their negotiations progressing positively? I think it unlikely - do you know something?
Were they lying about working with KPs staff to ensure a running start once the agreement was signed? Again, I think it unlikely - do you know something?

I was actually responding to this posting, made with considerable angst that Kaiser's study is still ongoing and so it's a nonsense that Kaiser has decided not to sign an agreement with PEB :


https://www.kp-scalresearch.org/research/Scientist.aspx?eid=556
(click studies tab)
The Director of Research at Kaiser lists the Cxbladder study as current, but Balance knows best eh

Yet PEB advises that the study had been successfully concluded way back in 2017 and an agreement to adopt CxBladder was near conclusion too (2018).

As you know with PEB, their spin is what has kept them going. When they are silent about what they spun historically, that's when the game is up?

Too many examples to give but the one most amazing PR spin that comes to mind right now is the 'revenues' which became receivables which were then written off subsequently in another accounting period.

Now isn't that quite something else?

[Dentie]

The silence is deafening.

Guess it's a very hard swallow either way for PEB die-hards to try and ignore the spin?

Well, the last time I had something to say I got banned - so I obviously have no comment!!

[psychic]

Well, the last time I had something to say I got banned - so I obviously have no comment!!

"The silence is deafening" - simply because many have him/her on ignore...
So delusional, poor pet.

[blackcap]

"The silence is deafening" - simply because many have him/her on ignore...
So delusional, poor pet.

Actually Balance has called this one pretty spot on from day one. He even acknowledged he was once a "believer" in the company and product but after certain pronouncements were not met he called out the company and to date I cannot fault him.

[Balance]

"The silence is deafening" - simply because many have him/her on ignore...
So delusional, poor pet.

Written, no doubt, while he was drunk with the deep red claret PEB represents in his portfolio?:p

[Defater]

Balance I have just woken up from a big sleep and see you haven't answered my question I asked you on 09 Jan 19 regarding a fantastic new test developed by Stanford University. This is the link you provided at the time...

http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2019/01/researchers-develop-urine-test-for-bladder-cancer.html

This was my post..


"As you are so knowledgeable on everything relateting to Urine based Bladder Cancer tests and the related government and medical requirements needed to get any new products to market, how long do you think it will take before we see this new Stanford University School of Medicine test on the shelves/ready for sale ? . Or is it already available ?, as you have implied."

I know you know a DOG when you see one so how is this new product doing? How can I get my hands on this WINNER?

[Balance]

Having given up on this thread a couple of years ago I decided today after receiving the PEB Investor Update to take a look and see what was being said about this company with its set of incredible diagnostic tools. What I have found is the same people saying the same things, mainly negative comments and assumptions. PEB are not selling fancy Flubber balls or trick drones that every kid from around the world wants right now and will be an instant seller. PEB's products have been approved and tested to be the best at what they have been designed to do but they still have some bridges to cross, I'm aware of that. It is a shame that some commentators or contributors here have not heard of the saying "good things come to those who wait" .

28 Oct 2016 : SP then was 45c (not-adjusted for the capital raisings at ever lower prices) and it's now 30c - 33% losses (not-adjusted).

That was 2 and half years ago - what has PEB's set of incredible diagnostic tools achieved in its commercialization process?

Oh yes, I know one thing - they had to reverse sales numbers because those weren't actually sales!

[Balance]

Balance I have just woken up from a big sleep and see you haven't answered my question I asked you on 09 Jan 19 regarding a fantastic new test developed by Stanford University. This is the link you provided at the time...

http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2019/01/researchers-develop-urine-test-for-bladder-cancer.html

This was my post..


"As you are so knowledgeable on everything relateting to Urine based Bladder Cancer tests and the related government and medical requirements needed to get any new products to market, how long do you think it will take before we see this new Stanford University School of Medicine test on the shelves/ready for sale ? . Or is it already available ?, as you have implied."

I know you know a DOG when you see one so how is this new product doing? How can I get my hands on this WINNER?


I gave you the answer and I note you did not respond for whatever reason?

[hardt]

"The silence is deafening" - simply because many have him/her on ignore...
So delusional, poor pet.

Ahh yes, ignore opinions that don't allow ones own deluded
and misplaced enthusiasm for PEB to continue.

Let's face it, investing in PEB is 100% speculation

Balance is a high conviction investor buy or sell.

[Carpenterjoe]

I found this interesting information,

https://m.mdxhealth.com/press-release/mdxhealth-r-mdxhealth-reports-financial-year-2018-results-and-provides-outlook-2019

"Postponement of commercial roll-out of AssureMDx for Bladder Cancer until after expected completion of the US validation and health economic studies to support reimbursement (expected late 2019). "

[Balance]

I found this interesting information,

https://m.mdxhealth.com/press-release/mdxhealth-r-mdxhealth-reports-financial-year-2018-results-and-provides-outlook-2019

"Postponement of commercial roll-out of AssureMDx for Bladder Cancer until after expected completion of the US validation and health economic studies to support reimbursement (expected late 2019). "

Now we are getting somewhere with understanding where and why PEB has blundered so badly in the States?

MDXhealth is not going to spend tens of millions of dollars each year to commercialize its Bladder Cancer test until the company has US validation and health economic studies to support reimbursement.

Looks to me like PEB has put the cart before the horse, rushed headlong into its commercial roll out of CxBladder without the groundwork to support reimbursement.

4 years after entering the US market and spending well over $100m there, PEB has gotten nowhere - no wonder!

What a sham and disaster!

[youngatheart]

Sounds familiar? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12215970

[Dentie]

Sounds familiar? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12215970

I don't know. Do you think the same sort of thing might apply with PEB?

[kiwidollabill]

I don't know. Do you think the same sort of thing might apply with PEB?

I don't think so. Theranos never had a real product, PEB does, they so far just arent executing very well on their market opportunity. I do wonder if they are in the 'sales optimist death spiral' though... the Kaiser deal isnt going to happen but they havent been given (or asked for) a flat NO and DD is intensely waiting for the phone to ring....

[Balance]

I don't think so. Theranos never had a real product, PEB does, they so far just arent executing very well on their market opportunity. I do wonder if they are in the 'sales optimist death spiral' though... the Kaiser deal isnt going to happen but they havent been given (or asked for) a flat NO and DD is intensely waiting for the phone to ring....

Share price sliding towards the 20c mark with no support in sight - only the sucker institutional underwriters desperately trying to hold up the sp to maintain some resemblance of 'performance' as their underwrite 'gifted' stock are all under water?

Slip, sliding away - that's a most appropriate DD theme song, I think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PBjKzaQEw

"The nearer your destination, the more you're slip, sliding away."

The $100m revenue so confidently projected to be achieved in 2019 keeps slipping towards the never-ever future year by year!

Guess he earns his multi-million dollar reward ($1.82m over 2017 & 18) as long as he keeps the slip- sliding song going - dazzling the sucker institutions with his 'balls in the air' display to keep the institutions entranced and putting in the cash.

:D

[pierre]

Share price sliding towards the 20c mark with no support in sight - only the sucker institutional underwriters desperately trying to hold up the sp to maintain some resemblance of 'performance' as their underwrite 'gifted' stock are all under water?

Slip, sliding away - that's a most appropriate DD theme song, I think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PBjKzaQEw

"The nearer your destination, the more you're slip, sliding away."

The $100m revenue so confidently projected to be achieved in 2019 keeps slipping towards the never-ever future year by year!

Guess he earns his multi-million dollar reward ($1.82m over 2017 & 18) as long as he keeps the slip- sliding song going - dazzling the sucker institutions with his 'balls in the air' display to keep the institutions entranced and putting in the cash.

:D

Run for your lives - the sky is falling!

[Hectorplains]

Run for your lives - the sky is falling!

Awesome rebuttal that, eh! Reduced the debate to but a cliche. Paradoxically, it's one that best applies to both PEB's share price and how the company remains an ongoing concern.

[Carpenterjoe]

Below is a portion of someones post on a Patient Cancer Forum, I have been noticing more posts regarding the use of Cxbladder. I would not take the below as fact, just a patients experience.

PacificEdge is the company that offers the test and they have an office in PA. They will file & appeal the insurance on your behalf and have an assistance program based on income. You will be told up front what the maximum exposure is which I think can range from $100-500 and is only due in the event the insurance company does not pay. I believe it is now covered my Medicare.


This is another persons experience from two weeks ago.

I'm a believer! Diagnosed with TaG1 nonmuscle-invasive end of 2012. Then several TURBTs and BCGs and Cystoscopy. Started CxBladder molecular tests June 2015 all showing 'low' scores, but May of 2016 had one 'high' CxBladder test result. Sure enough, cystoscopy indicated a single 3cm tumor recurrence.

After TURBT and BCGs again, restarted CxBladder tests Feb. 2017 which have been very 'low' past two years. My urologist also believes in this test. A simple urine sample is certainly much easier than a cystoscopy! I'm 78.

The mystery is that Medicare still refuses to pay for these tests, yet I am never charged by "Pacific Edge Diagnostics USA". From what I know this is a generally accurate test. It has been for me. I am continuing with the test every 4 or 5 months. So far so good. I don't think my urologist is paid for his time handling CxBladder samples. But I'm not making waves, I'm happy, if you call cancer problems happy.

[Balance]

The mystery is that Medicare still refuses to pay for these tests, yet I am never charged by "Pacific Edge Diagnostics USA". From what I know this is a generally accurate test. It has been for me. I am continuing with the test every 4 or 5 months. So far so good. I don't think my urologist is paid for his time handling CxBladder samples. But I'm not making waves, I'm happy, if you call cancer problems happy.

Mystery?

Nothing mysterious about how PEB has attempted to commercialize CxBladder in the US with the 'cart in front of the horse' approach!

We all know about the accounting 'sales' which proved to be non-sales, the receivables which had to be written off and of course, the tens of millions of dollars squandered on salaries etc as PEB peddled its 'Unauthorised' & 'Unapproved' test all over the freaking US!

And resorted to 'free' tests, test programs etc etc.

And there are those who still believe in the board and management of this company to deliver!

Where's Kaiser btw?

[pg0220]

Mystery?
We all know about the accounting 'sales' which proved to be non-sales, the receivables which had to be written off and of course, the tens of millions of dollars squandered on salaries etc as PEB peddled its 'Unauthorised' & 'Unapproved' test all over the freaking US!


Not a holder, not even interested in buying into PEB, but wow sales that turned out to be non-sales and had to be written off?! I read about this ASX company BIG and it was talking about the similar stuff, sales recorded when there was no real agreement to be sales from customers. It was in the end delisted leaving a lot of investors hopeless. Sorry, as a non-holder, I shouldn't have really given a care but it just didn't sound good at all! Maybe there have been more than that, would be interesting to find that out.

[kiwidollabill]

I'd love to see a timeline of the non-sales, bet it increases close to the end of the HY/FY. 'Channel Stuffing' is a common technique by those less-than-honest in the pharma/health industry.

[Balance]

Not a holder, not even interested in buying into PEB, but wow sales that turned out to be non-sales and had to be written off?! I read about this ASX company BIG and it was talking about the similar stuff, sales recorded when there was no real agreement to be sales from customers. It was in the end delisted leaving a lot of investors hopeless. Sorry, as a non-holder, I shouldn't have really given a care but it just didn't sound good at all! Maybe there have been more than that, would be interesting to find that out.

Well, PEB was recording tests carried out in the US (under test programs, trials etc) right until 30 September 2017 as 'sales' and booking said 'sales' to receivables in their books.

There were some of us who did NOT fall for their accounting practice as their receivables were increasing faster than their increase in sales!

For example, sales to 31 March 2017 were reported to be $8.1m (wow! 62% increase on 2016) and receivables increased to $6.5m.

Then, PEB changed their accounting practice in 2018 to recognize sales on a 'cash' basis under NZ IFRS 15 and had to restate their accounts :

Sales in 2017 were reduced down to $3.2m (down 60%) and get this, receivables down to $663k (down 90% !!!!!!!!).

Why? Because IFRS 15 requires one of the key conditions of contracts to be ENFORCEMENT between 2 parties before sales can be recognized!

https://www.bdo.nz/getmedia/07649d5f-5cc9-455d-8138-79eb93595c48/BDO-SOAP-NZ-IFRS-15.pdf.aspx

What does that say about the so-called tests PEB had been carrying out in the US?

In some industry, it is called freebies - test samples. But not according to PEB obviously.

[pg0220]

Well, PEB was recording tests carried out in the US (under test programs, trials etc) right until 30 September 2017 as 'sales' and booking said 'sales' to receivables in their books.

There were some of us who did fall for their accounting practice as their receivables were increasing faster than their sales!

For example, sales to 31 March 2017 were reported to be $8.1m (wow! 62% increase on 2016) and receivables increased to $6.5m.

Then, PEB changed their accounting practice in 2018 to recognize sales on a 'cash' basis under NZ IFRS 15 and had to restate their accounts :

Sales in 2017 were reduced down to $3.2m (down 60%) and get this, receivables down to $663k (down 90% !!!!!!!!).

Why? Because IFRS 15 requires contracts to be ENFORCEMENT between 2 parties before sales can be recognized!

https://www.bdo.nz/getmedia/07649d5f-5cc9-455d-8138-79eb93595c48/BDO-SOAP-NZ-IFRS-15.pdf.aspx

What a crock of ......
Thanks mate, holy.....very interesting, yet disgusting story. I am just so amazed that there are still people hanging onto this company with all this deceptive practice done by them.....

[Balance]

Thanks mate, holy.....very interesting, yet disgusting story. I am just so amazed that there are still people hanging onto this company with all this deceptive practice done by them.....

You are new so you have no idea how much abuse some of us were subject to for highlighting the unsustainable and dodgy way that the receivables were piling up against the 'sales'! One poster even went as far as to accuse us of attempting to sabotage PEB (a great Kiwi story!) to benefit their competitors, or to facilitate a takeover on the cheap by them! Yet another wrote that PEB did not do 'free' tests in the US - on good authority!

Guess the institutions and their lemon-sucking fund managers who underwrote the last 4 rights issue don't have much of a choice - they have put in too much money, so donkey deep and they have to hope the company is going to deliver. What else can they do?

[BlackPeter]

Don't follow this stock anymore - but just came in an unrelated search across this fine piece of Edison analysis:

https://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/?ACT=18&ID=12799&LANG=

Thought it might be interesting for long term shareholders - a memory of the good old days (2014)? Just wondering how long this edge really is?

Just kidding - I don't.

[blackcap]

Don't follow this stock anymore - but just came in an unrelated search across this fine piece of Edison analysis:

https://www.edisoninvestmentresearch.com/?ACT=18&ID=12799&LANG=

Thought it might be interesting for long term shareholders - a memory of the good old days (2014)? Just wondering how long this edge really is?

Just kidding - I don't.

Pacific Edge (PEB). We expect meaningful sales from
Cxbladderdetect in calendar 2015 and positive cash flow for the company in
calendar 2016.

That aged well.

[Balance]

Pacific Edge (PEB). We expect meaningful sales from
Cxbladderdetect in calendar 2015 and positive cash flow for the company in
calendar 2016.

That aged well.

Should have been written as 'meaningless sales"?

[Carpenterjoe]

MDX health have had a similar reimbursement experience with their prostate product and have been reimbursed for previous years tests. I look forward to a similar situation possibly happening with PEB. But time will tell. Much easier to sell milk or software unfortunately. Hopefully PEB turn into a CUV situation, surprised nobody above seems to be on that winner.

Bio tech is expensive, PEB currently have a new clinical/user trial for their monitor product that includes

Urologists in Urology Centers of Alabama
Urology Center of Grove Hill, One Lake Street
Florida Urology Associates
Idaho Urologic Institute
Delaware Valley Urology, LLC
Premier Medical Group of the Hudson Valley
Weill Cornell Medical College, Department of Urology
Penn State Hershey Medical Center and College of Medicine
UT Southwestern Medical Center


Suppose i could invest in FBU. Didnt they just loose 400 million in a year.

or even better Summerset who just had 200+ million slugged off their Mcap in the space of a week.

Good luck to all,

[Balance]

MDX health have had a similar reimbursement experience with their prostate product and have been reimbursed for previous years tests. I look forward to a similar situation possibly happening with PEB. But time will tell. Much easier to sell milk or software unfortunately. Hopefully PEB turn into a CUV situation, surprised nobody above seems to be on that winner.

Bio tech is expensive, PEB currently have a new clinical/user trial for their monitor product that includes

Urologists in Urology Centers of Alabama
Urology Center of Grove Hill, One Lake Street
Florida Urology Associates
Idaho Urologic Institute
Delaware Valley Urology, LLC
Premier Medical Group of the Hudson Valley
Weill Cornell Medical College, Department of Urology
Penn State Hershey Medical Center and College of Medicine
UT Southwestern Medical Center


Suppose i could invest in FBU. Didnt they just loose 400 million in a year.

or even better Summerset who just had 200+ million slugged off their Mcap in the space of a week.

Good luck to all,

Or you could have invested in ATM, Serko or Synlait.

Hard to soar like an eagle if one is stuck on the ground with a bunch of turkeys.

Or is it a case of being dazzled by PEB's brilliant BS that it's hard to distinguish bull dust with brilliance? :cool:

[kyanar]

It's been at least three months since PEB last diluted our holdings with another massive discounted insto offer hasn't it? Where's my regularly scheduled devaluation?

[Balance]

It's been at least three months since PEB last diluted our holdings with another massive discounted insto offer hasn't it? Where's my regularly scheduled devaluation?

Be thankful that the sucker institutions are there to prop up this sorry excuse of a biomed company!

Last placement and capital raising was done at 34c - that's 20% down the drain for them in 2.5 months! :t_down:

You can actually buy in cheaper than the sucker instos! Not that it's that hard - the instos are so punch drunk with PEB-induced losses that they would be willing to roll with the next placement (due in September 2020 at this stage).

Reporting next month - there's a few of us who always look forward to what excuses and stories DD & his board are going to come up with to explain away yet another disappointing delay to the promised $100m revenues!

This time, it probably will be because of the Mexican border controversy - cannot get health workers, see? :D

[Balance]

https://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/genitourinary-cancer/news/online/%7B0ea94c76-e104-48c5-b94c-95dfafd71897%7D/urine-test-may-revolutionize-bladder-cancer-detection

And of course PEB would like you to believe that they have the best in the industry!

Never mind the fact that it is clear that the top universities and med clinics obviously do not think so!

Tick ... tick ....

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/316925/277893.pdf

Investor Update must be due and really, there are only 2 questions or update investors and shareholders need :

1. What happened to Kaiser?

2. What happened to the CMS reimbursement rate, 6 months from when PEB made the exciting announcement from the ever exuberantly capital raising excited DD?

"..... The rate, set by the Medicare Advisory Panel on Clinical Diagnostic Laboratory Tests, will be open for public comment until 22 October 2018 and will be published in the Clinical Laboratory Fee Schedule in November 2018 and effective from 1 January 2019."

Oops - it's April 2019!

[Schrodinger]

https://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/genitourinary-cancer/news/online/%7B0ea94c76-e104-48c5-b94c-95dfafd71897%7D/urine-test-may-revolutionize-bladder-cancer-detection

And of course PEB would like you to believe that they have the best in the industry!

Never mind the fact that it is clear that the top universities and med clinics obviously do not think so!

Tick ... tick ....

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/316925/277893.pdf

Investor Update must be due and really, there are only 2 questions or update investors and shareholders need :

1. What happened to Kaiser?

2. What happened to the CMS reimbursement rate, 6 months from when PEB made the exciting announcement from the ever exuberantly capital raising excited DD?

"..... The rate, set by the Medicare Advisory Panel on Clinical Diagnostic Laboratory Tests, will be open for public comment until 22 October 2018 and will be published in the Clinical Laboratory Fee Schedule in November 2018 and effective from 1 January 2019."

Oops - it's April 2019!

The call has gone out for new Directors.

Would love some info on the board decisions:

1. Who signed off on the receivables v actual revenue farce and retreat.
2. Were going to be $100M by 2018 (expired) with no grounding in reality.
3. Raising $150M for international expansion based on flimsy market research.
4. DD expenses out of reality with market traction
5. Poor performing sales team
6. Potential dividends (lol) estimate. I am guessing 2075 or after?

Thanks

[whatsup]

The call has gone out for new Directors.

Would love some info on the board decisions:

1. Who signed off on the receivables v actual revenue farce and retreat.
2. Were going to be $100M by 2018 (expired) with no grounding in reality.
3. Raising $150M for international expansion based on flimsy market research.
4. DD expenses out of reality with market traction
5. Poor performing sales team
6. Potential dividends (lol) estimate. I am guessing 2075 or after?

Thanks

Smoke and mirror company always has been imho, but too scared to sell my shares

[Hectorplains]

The call has gone out for new Directors.

Would love some info on the board decisions:

1. Who signed off on the receivables v actual revenue farce and retreat.
2. Were going to be $100M by 2018 (expired) with no grounding in reality.
3. Raising $150M for international expansion based on flimsy market research.
4. DD expenses out of reality with market traction
5. Poor performing sales team
6. Potential dividends (lol) estimate. I am guessing 2075 or after?

Thanks

Pretty much pick any previous announcement... and the questions flow. Here's Feb 1 2018

1. Where are they are with Raffles and expansion into S.E.Asia?
2. How are the "User Programmes" (studies) progressing in Singapore; especially "transitioning" these to commercial customers (i.e. tests that are actually paid for)?
3. How much is the Singapore 'base' costing PEB? What other sales 'achievements' have they to report more than a year later?

[Balance]

Smoke and mirror company always has been imho, but too scared to sell my shares

Haha - that's how DD and the PEB free-loading clueless bunch have been successfully keeping the sucker instos onside.

Any day now, see?

And BTW, we just need another $10m to see us into the next phase of .... 'insert' exciting excitement!

[whatsup]

Haha - that's how DD and the PEB free-loading clueless bunch have been successfully keeping the sucker instos onside.

Any day now, see?

And BTW, we just need another $10m to see us into the next phase of .... 'insert' exciting excitement!

don't you mean smoke and mirrors ?

[Balance]

don't you mean smoke and mirrors ?

As in the increased sales into ever increasing receivables to their subsequent reversal & restatements?

To me, PEB violated every underlying accounting principles of conservatism, accrual & recognition of revenues which could be violated!

But hi, who are we to comment when the institutions (who are sooooo smart) have no issue?

Guess the difference is that we weren’t playing with other peoples’ monies and lose via the ever lower priced underwritings!

[Schrodinger]

Balance, contrary to other posters, I think you have saved investors many thousands by highlighting ****ty business practices especially in this company. We all want PEB to succeed but the company continually glosses over the hard yards required to get traction in USA. Raising $150M and targetting the USA does not mean you will be a success.

I would of preferred the company test out some assumptions and then go big (raise $). Common mistake from our companies.

P.S interested in Chelsea's next report on valuation.

[Balance]

Balance, contrary to other posters, I think you have saved investors many thousands by highlighting ****ty business practices especially in this company. We all want PEB to succeed but the company continually glosses over the hard yards required to get traction in USA. Raising $150M and targetting the USA does not mean you will be a success.

I would of preferred the company test out some assumptions and then go big (raise $). Common mistake from our companies.

P.S interested in Chelsea's next report on valuation.

To me, this is the tragedy for NZ inc and all the biomed & biotech companies out there looking for funding.

PEB could have been a poster boy (like Cochlear on ASX) for success and attract more investors to support our biotech & biomed industry (always short of funding) - instead PEB has squandered over $200m of precious fundings, and given the industry a bad bad name through woeful execution, and unbelievably bullish but unfulfilled promises and expectations to raise the funding.

[kiwidollabill]

The big thing I've always been confused about is why they made the decision to commercialise the IP by trying to sell the tests directly (higher $ but higher risk/cost). Rather than licensing the genetic IP to Roche, Qiagen etc or even just sell the genetic kits via incumbant distribution channels to be analysed by 3rd parties. They would still face the regulartory challenges but the operational cost (and distraction) would have been significantly reduced and saved alot of capital. Any insight from maybe historical reports?

[Balance]

The big thing I've always been confused about is why they made the decision to commercialise the IP by trying to sell the tests directly (higher $ but higher risk/cost). Rather than licensing the genetic IP to Roche, Qiagen etc or even just sell the genetic kits via incumbant distribution channels to be analysed by 3rd parties. They would still face the regulartory challenges but the operational cost (and distraction) would have been significantly reduced and saved alot of capital. Any insight from maybe historical reports?

If you recall, DD was on record as saying that PEB was a takeover target by one of the big boys?

Usual BS from the man.

[Balance]

4 years and half years ago - DD sure knew how to feed the chooks (ready for the next rights issue?).

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-will-be-juicy-nugget-purchase-david-darling-cs-p-161995

"Cancer diagnostics company Pacific Edge [NZX: PEB] is probably being closely watched by bigger US medical companies waiting for a ripe opportunity to acquire, its chief executive David Darling believes."

September 2014

Then, there's the 'several tens of thousands of tests' comment by Chairman Swan (never retracted) in Dec 2013.

And guess who sold shares in 2014 after all the bullish comments?

[Hectorplains]

[QUOTE=Balance;755919]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-will-be-juicy-nugget-purchase-david-darling-cs-p-161995

"Cancer diagnostics company Pacific Edge [NZX: PEB] is probably being closely watched by bigger US medical companies waiting for a ripe opportunity to acquire, its chief executive David Darling believes."

September 2014

[QUOTE]

The small market cap and open share register {{{could}}} make PEB a prime takeover target. Five years of no interest from any of the big med companies... what's that saying?

[Schrodinger]

Had a quick look at their cash position and they are getting down to their last funds? $10M @ Sep 2018 and burning $9M a half? They might have another $7M lying around but its going fast.

Why is this valued @ $135M?

[Carpenterjoe]

Potential.

Why is Cuv worth 1.1 billion
Why is Nxs worth 143 mil up 37.5% on IPO
Why is MDX worth 100 mil USD

NXS and MDX burn more cash.

High risk, high reward.

[Balance]

Potential.

Why is Cuv worth 1.1 billion
Why is Nxs worth 143 mil up 37.5% on IPO
Why is MDX worth 100 mil USD

NXS and MDX burn more cash.

High risk, high reward.

Yup - but they have real traction and real management who know what they are doing - not a bunch of PEB clowns flying all over the US offering free tests while delivering nothing but promises to shareholders.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/333560

Bringing an ex-investment banker to the board - John Duncan, ex PGC.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6809750/John-Duncan-quits-PGC-board

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11161419

No guesses needed as to why PEB has appointed him as a director!

[kyanar]

No guesses needed as to why PEB has appointed him as a director!

More devaluations I mean capital raisings?

[Balance]

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/northeast/cancer-test-firm-receives-seven-figure-investment-from-north-east-fund

Guess DD will have a new job to go to when PEB finally bellies up - his ability to spin and raise funding from sucker institutions is now legendary!

[Balance]

https://stockhead.com.au/health/dr-borehams-crucible-siennas-first-acquisition-opens-up-the-field-of-play/

Sienna making much headways either, it seems.

But different strategy and they have not spent 10% of what PEB has burnt so far, to obtain same results.

Meanwhile, PEB sp heading back towards oblivion.

20c soon for sure!

[Balance]

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-05-urine-bladder-cancer-patient-outcomes.html

And so the research into how to best use urine tests to detect bladder cancer continues - putting a lie to PEB's claim it has the 'gold' standard.

Share price sliding faster and faster now towards 20c, first stop.

Seems like more shareholders are waking up to the gross exaggerations and failed promises of the directors and management, who continue to get paid huge salaries & benefits for non-delivery of results!

[Balance]

Selling pressure piling up and one gets the feeling that the sucker instos who have been underwriting are running out of patience to keep supporting the share price for the next capital raising.

So when is the next capital raising?

Well, 30 Sept 2018, PEB had $10.6m - really $8.7m because working capital was negative $1.9m.

A desperately arranged $7m capital raise via placement was made in Dec 2018 at 35c, and another $5m via the SPP in Jan 2019.

So we are now in May 2019 - 7 months on and we know PEB's cash burn is $1.5m a month which means the clock is ticking very loudly indeed for the next capital raise when the final results are announced later this month.

Share price fall suggests that PEB is already doing the rounds of asking the sucker instos for support?

[Balance]

Share price fall suggests that PEB is already doing the rounds of asking the sucker instos for support?

And if PEB does not deliver on this : https://www.nzx.com/announcements/325254 by the time it reports its results in May, I think it is likely that even the most ardent & committed of the sucker instos will bail out too.

"The rate, set by the Medicare Advisory Panel on Clinical Diagnostic Laboratory Tests, will be open for public comment until 22 October 2018 and will be published in the Clinical Laboratory Fee Schedule in November 2018 and effective from 1 January 2019."

That announcement was of course made in October 2018 - just in time to get the instos to pump in more $$$ in Dec 2018 - but it's now 6 months with no update. With PEB, we know what that usually means! :eek2:

[minimoke]

They havent achieved this yet have they? " and the third is inclusion in the Local Coverage Determination (LCD) for CMS coverage."

[Balance]

They havent achieved this yet have they? " and the third is inclusion in the Local Coverage Determination (LCD) for CMS coverage."

Nope - if they did, DD & PEB would have been shouting about it from the top of Mt Cook!

[minimoke]

Nope - if they did, DD & PEB would have been shouting about it from the top of Mt Cook!Must be time for an update on how they are tracking on achieving this third leg. You'de think there would be some kind of time frame attached.

[Balance]

Must be time for an update on how they are tracking on achieving this third leg. You'de think there would be some kind of time frame attached.

PEB has a different definition of time & time frame - that's pretty obvious by now?

Examples :

"Several tens of thousands of tests" in 2014. Took 2018 for them to achieve.

$100m revenues by 2019. Reset to 2039?

And so on and so forth.

[BigBob]

And if PEB does not deliver on this : https://www.nzx.com/announcements/325254 by the time it reports its results in May, I think it is likely that even the most ardent & committed of the sucker instos will bail out too.

"The rate, set by the Medicare Advisory Panel on Clinical Diagnostic Laboratory Tests, will be open for public comment until 22 October 2018 and will be published in the Clinical Laboratory Fee Schedule in November 2018 and effective from 1 January 2019."

That announcement was of course made in October 2018 - just in time to get the instos to pump in more $$$ in Dec 2018 - but it's now 6 months with no update. With PEB, we know what that usually means! :eek2:

Hmmm.... You sure about the fact that this has not been delieved on.... ?

This is from their Interim Report from 19 December...:

"Completion of two of the three milestones required for US reimbursement, being receipt of product codes and notification of a national price (US$760 per test)." (My highlight)....

[pierre]

Must be time for an update on how they are tracking on achieving this third leg. You'de think there would be some kind of time frame attached.

Annual results are announced towards the end of May and usually there's some kind of announcement a week or so earlier just to whet everyone's appetite and to give Balance another bone to chew on.

Let's wait till then - after all we've been waiting a bloody long time for some positive news of real significance.

Meantime we can enjoy more tedious repetitive updates from our resident expert on share prices.

[Balance]

Meantime we can enjoy more tedious repetitive updates from our resident expert on share prices.

And who has saved many from the same fate suffered by you and the sucker instos.

[davflaws]

And who has saved many from the same fate suffered by you and the sucker instos.

You have. But that is despite the vitriolic and marginally abusive tone of many of your posts rather than because of it. Referring to "Sucker instos" (for example) is neither respectful nor informative, and doesn't encourage other people to engage with you about the issues.

[Balance]

You have. But that is despite the vitriolic and marginally abusive tone of many of your posts rather than because of it. Referring to "Sucker instos" (for example) is neither respectful nor informative, and doesn't encourage other people to engage with you about the issues.

Fair enough but how else would you describe institutions ignoring the numerous red flags hoisted by PEB and pumping in ever more money (other people's monies) at ever decreasing share prices? Is 'sucker' an apt description and hence, informative to those who may be inclined to think that institutions are superior investors vs them?

And do please note that I did not refer to anyone on this forum as 'suckers' etc - only the institutions who are supposed to do comprehensive research, have better access to superior information and cewrtainly, superior access to the company and management.

And yes, I have very little respect for the institutions who has showed that they have not exacted accountability from PEB, and DD in particular for the numerous missed deadlines, and the infamous non-sales saga.

[minimoke]

You have. But that is despite the vitriolic and marginally abusive tone of many of your posts rather than because of it. Referring to "Sucker instos" (for example) is neither respectful nor informative, and doesn't encourage other people to engage with you about the issues.
I think Balance is being very generous - I'd be calling any Insto that backed a company with this kind of performance a lot worse. They would be negligently responsible for destroying the wealth of depositors in their funds.

[blackcap]

You have. But that is despite the vitriolic and marginally abusive tone of many of your posts rather than because of it. Referring to "Sucker instos" (for example) is neither respectful nor informative, and doesn't encourage other people to engage with you about the issues.

The insto's are using other peoples money, money that you and I entrust to them. They themselves have no skin in the game.

[Balance]

The insto's are using other peoples money, money that you and I entrust to them. They themselves have no skin in the game.

Exactly.

Some do try very hard, it must be said, to outperform based on their fee structure but most draw fees irrespective of how they perform.

[Balance]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/10255639/Warning-over-bladder-cancer-test

From a disgruntled shareholder who asked if PEB ever highlighted this - as it explains why the relentless search for a better urine test continues.

Going back too far to recall but fair enough point?

[winner69]

Does Harbour still hold a decent chunk of PEB

They pretty well regarded manager

[psychic]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/10255639/Warning-over-bladder-cancer-test

From a disgruntled shareholder who asked if PEB ever highlighted this - as it explains why the relentless search for a better urine test continues.

Going back too far to recall but fair enough point?

Sigh, I don't understand. Why have you brought this (almost 5 year old) piece of riveting journalism to our attention? You say it is from a disgruntled shareholder, was the journalist a disgruntled shareholder? Are you the disgruntled shareholder? What did the digruntled shareholder ask? If this "news' item had been highlighted? How does it explain the relentless search for a better urine test? What don't you recall and what iis the point you make?

Yes. Pacific Edge have offered the CxBladder test online for 4 or 5 years, still do. The test helps rule out bladder cancer, the results are sent to your GP. PE makes it clear that haematuria can be caused by all sorts of things, foods, trauma, etc. But one on ten may be as a result of bladder cancer, and this is the cause one should be most concerned about.

And yes, the Urologists (who make a lot of money from unecessary and invasive cystoscopies) may miss out occassionally.

So what? Have there been cases in the last 5 years where people have ordered the test and then died of food colouring or something? What are you saying?
Do you doubt the accuracy of the test? Have you raised your concerns with the DHB's that are using it?

[psychic]

Does Harbour still hold a decent chunk of PEB

They pretty well regarded manager

Yes, about 17% .

Harbour says:

Responsible Investing
Harbour is a market leader for integrating ESG research into our investment process, and we have been signatories to the UN Principles of Responsible Investment since August 2010.

[Balance]

Yes, about 17% .

Harbour says:

Responsible Investing
Harbour is a market leader for integrating ESG research into our investment process, and we have been signatories to the UN Principles of Responsible Investment since August 2010.

Choking on their ESG investment in PEB, with ever increasing stake and increasing losses.

Next underwrite should see them go to 19.999% after which other shareholders may get a chance to be bailed out by Harbour too? :D

[Balance]

Sigh, I don't understand. Why have you brought this (almost 5 year old) piece of riveting journalism to our attention? You say it is from a disgruntled shareholder, was the journalist a disgruntled shareholder? Are you the disgruntled shareholder? What did the digruntled shareholder ask? If this "news' item had been highlighted? How does it explain the relentless search for a better urine test? What don't you recall and what iis the point you make?

Yes. Pacific Edge have offered the CxBladder test online for 4 or 5 years, still do. The test helps rule out bladder cancer, the results are sent to your GP. PE makes it clear that haematuria can be caused by all sorts of things, foods, trauma, etc. But one on ten may be as a result of bladder cancer, and this is the cause one should be most concerned about.

And yes, the Urologists (who make a lot of money from unecessary and invasive cystoscopies) may miss out occassionally.

So what? Have there been cases in the last 5 years where people have ordered the test and then died of food colouring or something? What are you saying?
Do you doubt the accuracy of the test? Have you raised your concerns with the DHB's that are using it?

Gee - now that's how you should be questioning PEB's directors and management about their non-delivery of :

1. $100m revenues by 2019,

2. Full CMS coverage,

3. Real sales (remember the fictitious sales?),

4. Contracts with Kaiser & other test program partners,

5. Profitability and cashflow positivity,

6. Etc etc etc

After spending $200m to show bugger all against their stated aims above! :t_down:

Instead, you think shooting the messenger will bring PEB success with the clowns in charge? :D

[steveb]

lets face it guys this one is a punt,if it comes off great if not you have gone into it with a good chance that you will lose your money,if Harbour think they can afford a punt on them,well good luck to them.Me I sold a couple of months ago and yes I lost a bit,but so what.

[Balance]

lets face it guys this one is a punt,if it comes off great if not you have gone into it with a good chance that you will lose your money,if Harbour think they can afford a punt on them,well good luck to them.Me I sold a couple of months ago and yes I lost a bit,but so what.

A punt implies that there are considered odds on winning?

Given the track record of this company, its directors and management of mismanaging this company and squandering $200m, is there really any hope of a favorable odd with this 'punt'?

[Schrodinger]

Some big retail holders want out...

Balance did you put that order in for 5c?

[winner69]

They on phone again to Dave ....’Dave, time for another announcement but make sure it’s positive”

Needs to do it soon as results out in a few weeks

[Drew95]

May 2019 update - http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/334586/299888.pdf

[Ggcc]

May 2019 update - http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/334586/299888.pdf

Most of it sounds like regurgitated waffle. Nothing new here.

[BigBob]

May 2019 update - http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/334586/299888.pdf

And there it is again proving Balance wrong or just full of s**t...:

"Completion of two of the three milestones required for US CMS reimbursement, being receipt of
national, product specific codes (issued by the American Medical Association (AMA)) and notification
of a national price (US$760 per test). Progress continues to be made with the third of these
cornerstones, which is to have Cxbladder included in the LCD."


And if PEB does not deliver on this : https://www.nzx.com/announcements/325254 by the time it reports its results in May, I think it is likely that even the most ardent & committed of the sucker instos will bail out too.

"The rate, set by the Medicare Advisory Panel on Clinical Diagnostic Laboratory Tests, will be open for public comment until 22 October 2018 and will be published in the Clinical Laboratory Fee Schedule in November 2018 and effective from 1 January 2019."

That announcement was of course made in October 2018 - just in time to get the instos to pump in more $$$ in Dec 2018 - but it's now 6 months with no update. With PEB, we know what that usually means! :eek2:

and


Nope - if they did, DD & PEB would have been shouting about it from the top of Mt Cook!


Oh, and it looks like John Hopkins are paying for their free tests... Who would have thought...!

[blackcap]

And there it is again proving Balance wrong or just full of s**t...:

"Completion of two of the three milestones required for US CMS reimbursement, being receipt of
national, product specific codes (issued by the American Medical Association (AMA)) and notification
of a national price (US$760 per test). Progress continues to be made with the third of these
cornerstones, which is to have Cxbladder included in the LCD."



and




Oh, and it looks like John Hopkins are paying for their free tests... Who would have thought...!

No change in the SP on that announcement. Just the usual waffle. Rights issue coming up soon or the company goes under as it runs out of cash.

[minimoke]

Successful negotiation (or however PEB framed it previously) now seems to have been downgrade to "discussions "In the US, along with Kaiser Permanente and Johns Hopkins, we are in discussions with a number of otherlarge, institutional healthcare organisations."

[BigBob]

No change in the SP on that announcement. Just the usual waffle. Rights issue coming up soon or the company goes under as it runs out of cash.

Maybe so, but that is not my point.

What I am getting at is that one of the regular posters here has either been deliberately spreading rubbish or maybe is not quite as well informed and enlightened he/she would like everyone to think...

Over and out on this one....

[dubya]

Bring Back Balance !!!!

[davflaws]

Balance has been right so often he is allowed to be wrong sometimes. But it is a shame that the relentlessly negative and excrementally doomladen tone of most of his posts puts many people off.

[winner69]

They on phone again to Dave ....’Dave, time for another announcement but make sure it’s positive”

Needs to do it soon as results out in a few weeks

See — they were on the phone again to Dave

And Dave obliged

[RTM]

Maybe so, but that is not my point.

What I am getting at is that one of the regular posters here has either been deliberately spreading rubbish or maybe is not quite as well informed and enlightened he/she would like everyone to think...

Over and out on this one....

Yes....he does remind us all of his perspective pretty often.
Personally....I wouldn't completely ignore the sentiment he expresses.
I was out some time ago at 36c. Ouch. But it could have been worse.

[silu]

Yes....he does remind us all of his perspective pretty often.
Personally....I wouldn't completely ignore the sentiment he expresses.
I was out some time ago at 36c. Ouch. But it could have been worse.

I was in at $1.53 and out at $1.28. Dodged a serious bullet there.

[minimoke]

Balance has been right so often he is allowed to be wrong sometimes. But it is a shame that the relentlessly negative and excrementally doomladen tone of most of his posts puts many people off.When was he wrong?
In the newsletter PEB now say its a five year process to get onto the LCD. They didnt mention that years ago.

"The third step is inclusion the Local Coverage Decision (LCD) which allows for reimbursement by theCMS. This takes five years on average and requires a significant amount of published clinical andproduct validation. Inclusion in the LCD remains a priority focus for Pacific Edge and we continue tomake steady progress in meeting the evidence needs of the CMS."

I would have thought they would have known what the evidence needs were at the beginning of the processes, presented it all and off they go. Obviously not.

"Steady progress" does not sound encouraging

[Carpenterjoe]

When was he wrong?
In the newsletter PEB now say its a five year process to get onto the LCD. They didnt mention that years ago.

"The third step is inclusion the Local Coverage Decision (LCD) which allows for reimbursement by theCMS. This takes five years on average and requires a significant amount of published clinical andproduct validation. Inclusion in the LCD remains a priority focus for Pacific Edge and we continue tomake steady progress in meeting the evidence needs of the CMS."

I would have thought they would have known what the evidence needs were at the beginning of the processes, presented it all and off they go. Obviously not.

"Steady progress" does not sound encouraging

Hi minimoke

We have been told "they are going it alone". or learning as they go.
If you have capacity read into CUV on the ASX. They are currently going through the FDA process and learning how frustrating and demanding it can be. Yes, two different situations but an example of how simplistic us investors can be regarding the process.

definitely interested in test through put come late may.

It will be interesting how the capital gains/loss tax situation effects the end of the month share price. Could be good gains for the brave or cheap shares for the long term investors.


Lets all keep an eye on the guidelines, once those catch up things could move fast.

[Ggcc]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/334683

We know it works just the sales team forgot their memo.....

[psychic]

I really don't understand how announcing a date for release of full year results can be price sensitive and this mornings release is not, but there you go..

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/334683

PE's long path toward acceptance by Insurers and CMS has always been tempered by papers supporting Cxbladder but seeking further multicentre evidence. And this Study does this I think. And it hasn't been written by PE...

[minimoke]

Dont want to see the research reports. Want to see the sales orders!

[psychic]

Dont want to see the research reports. Want to see the sales orders!

What should follow the other?

[RTM]

I really don't understand how announcing a date for release of full year results can be price sensitive and this mornings release is not, but there you go..

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/334683

PE's long path toward acceptance by Insurers and CMS has always been tempered by papers supporting Cxbladder but seeking further multicentre evidence. And this Study does this I think. And it hasn't been written by PE...

Did they time this release for when Balance is Missing in Action ?

[Baa_Baa]

Did they time this release for when Balance is Missing in Action ?

I wonder if he's gone for good, doesn't show in the 'members' list anymore? Maybe just doesn't show in that members list when you're banned, or maybe he's flicked the bird to ST and resigned completely?

Not that many PEB holders will miss him here, but he has a great lens on the merits of listed companies. Especially when he smells something isn't quite right. Has a keen sense of smell that's for sure, pretty vocal about it as well.

Maybe shouldn't have called her Right Honorable the Prime Minister of New Zealand such demeaning childish names?

[Ggcc]

I wonder if he's gone for good, doesn't show in the 'members' list anymore? Maybe just doesn't show in that members list when you're banned, or maybe he's flicked the bird to ST and resigned completely?

Not that many PEB holders will miss him here, but he has a great lens on the merits of listed companies. Especially when he smells something isn't quite right. Has a keen sense of smell that's for sure, pretty vocal about it as well.

Maybe shouldn't have called her Right Honorable the Prime Minister of New Zealand such demeaning childish names?

Balance saved me some money with this share and from investing that money elsewhere I made a profit. I do appreciate listening to him and others who have a different way of thinking to mine. It pays sometimes to listen.

[RTM]

Balance saved me some money with this share and from investing that money elsewhere I made a profit. I do appreciate listening to him and others who have a different way of thinking to mine. It pays sometimes to listen.

Agree, hope he/she is back soon. We need posters like Balance.

[Jay]

Has been banned, just looked a page or so back to one of his posts

[QOH]

Ive always appreciated Balances posts.

[dubya]

Agree, hope he/she is back soon. We need posters like Balance.

I can only concur. I don't hold any PEB, and probably (thanks to Balance) never will. I always liked reading Balances posts, not just on this thread but on other ones too. Hopefully the ban is just temporary.

[Minerbarejet]

Its a great shame really.
One wonders what the thread count would be if Hancocks and Balance had maintained their presence on ST.
I think in all fairness if one comes back the other should too.

[blackcap]

I wonder if he's gone for good, doesn't show in the 'members' list anymore? Maybe just doesn't show in that members list when you're banned, or maybe he's flicked the bird to ST and resigned completely?

Not that many PEB holders will miss him here, but he has a great lens on the merits of listed companies. Especially when he smells something isn't quite right. Has a keen sense of smell that's for sure, pretty vocal about it as well.

Maybe shouldn't have called her Right Honorable the Prime Minister of New Zealand such demeaning childish names?

Bit of a worry though isn't it that if that is what he has been banned for. Sticks and stones and all that.

Do not always agree with Balance, but he puts his $ where his mouth is so to speak and talks a lot of sense. Will have saved many the temptation to enter this stock.

[winner69]

Bit of a worry though isn't it that if that is what he has been banned for. Sticks and stones and all that.

Do not always agree with Balance, but he puts his $ where his mouth is so to speak and talks a lot of sense. Will have saved many the temptation to enter this stock.

Balance is a good guy .....and well connected

[whatsup]

Has been banned, just looked a page or so back to one of his posts

Usually 2 weeks for the first offence 4 weeks for further transgressions.

[barney]

"Tens of thousands of tests.Tens of thousands of tests. Tens of thousands of tests."

I don't think he'll be missed.

[Ggcc]

"Tens of thousands of tests.Tens of thousands of tests. Tens of thousands of tests."

I don't think he'll be missed.
So far he saved me thousands of dollars, thousands of dollars thousands of dollars. Come back Balance.

[barney]

So far he saved me thousands of dollars, thousands of dollars thousands of dollars. Come back Balance.

Really ? You base your investment decisions on the postings of an obsessive anonymous poster on sharetrader.

Each to their own I suppose. Good luck to you.

[RTM]

Really ? You base your investment decisions on the postings of an obsessive anonymous poster on sharetrader.

Each to their own I suppose. Good luck to you.

Interesting comment Barney and made me think about how I make my investment decisions. I would say that Balances' views are in general a small component of how I make my investment decisions. However....I would certainly think long and hard before I bought or maybe even held anything that he /she comments negatively about. There are other posters who post eloquently and frequently and often who are apt to flip / flop over time. Again, those posters form a component of how I make my investment decisions.

Accordingly I think your summary above is a bit "black and white"...for a decision making process which is in all likelihood highly matrixed.

Off for a sail, have a good day.
Cheers
RTM.

[barney]

Interesting comment Barney and made me think about how I make my investment decisions. I would say that Balances' views are in general a small component of how I make my investment decisions. However....I would certainly think long and hard before I bought or maybe even held anything that he /she comments negatively about. There are other posters who post eloquently and frequently and often who are apt to flip / flop over time. Again, those posters form a component of how I make my investment decisions.

Accordingly I think your summary above is a bit "black and white"...for a decision making process which is in all likelihood highly matrixed.

Off for a sail, have a good day.
Cheers
RTM.

Fair enough. We all have our different ways of going about it.

[Gonzo]

Fair enough. We all have our different ways of going about it.

Thanks to all the posters, as an old GP I was interested in PEB but got out in time when it became apparent it was going nowhere.
I've only ordered the test once and have not seen it commonly used in the Southern PHO
I appreciate the help of all you people who are financially literate

[Ggcc]

Really ? You base your investment decisions on the postings of an obsessive anonymous poster on sharetrader.

Each to their own I suppose. Good luck to you.
I hopped in onto the hype and promise of a better tomorrow on my own accord. I kept thinking anytime now sales will increase, because management indicated it would and share price kept dropping. Listening to all posters talking about PEB for a while made me aware of the facts it needed more money and more money. I should have listened to posters when I was invested in Wynyard, but I thought I knew better. That cost me a lot more than a few thousand. Sure you should not always do what other posters say and follow your gut. My gut said Balance was correct with PEB for years but my heart said no. After 5 years supporting them I decided to pull the plug. If any company does not seem to be able to keep to its promises SELL. I do listen to what people here have to say, but make my own decisions whether to invest or sell my investment.

In my heart I still want this company to do well, but investing with my heart does not pay the bills.

[Airw0lf]

I hopped in onto the hype and promise of a better tomorrow on my own accord. I kept thinking anytime now sales will increase, because management indicated it would and share price kept dropping. Listening to all posters talking about PEB for a while made me aware of the facts it needed more money and more money. I should have listened to posters when I was invested in Wynyard, but I thought I knew better. That cost me a lot more than a few thousand. Sure you should not always do what other posters say and follow your gut. My gut said Balance was correct with PEB for years but my heart said no. After 5 years supporting them I decided to pull the plug. If any company does not seem to be able to keep to its promises SELL. I do listen to what people here have to say, but make my own decisions whether to invest or sell my investment.

In my heart I still want this company to do well, but investing with my heart does not pay the bills.

If it's any consolation I think you and I have been down almost the exact same path with PEB and WYN...I managed to get out of both at a loss but it could have been considerably worse if I'd tried to stay the course...

[Ggcc]

If it's any consolation I think you and I have been down almost the exact same path with PEB and WYN...I managed to get out of both at a loss but it could have been considerably worse if I'd tried to stay the course...
Well done to you for pulling out of WYN in time. I wasn't that lucky. Fortunately that made my Bull$%$# radar work better in all companies. I have done very well from shares so far and hope it will continue. I listen to others and their opinions from this forum and make an objective individual decision whether I purchase or sell my shares.

A general thanks to all who woke me up on PEB

[pierre]

Annual results are announced towards the end of May and usually there's some kind of announcement a week or so earlier just to whet everyone's appetite and to give Balance another bone to chew on.

Let's wait till then - after all we've been waiting a bloody long time for some positive news of real significance.

Meantime we can enjoy more tedious repetitive updates from our resident expert on share prices.

As I predicted there has been a minor flurry of announcements from PEB in advance of the FY19 release next week.

Pity poor old Balance languishing in the naughty corner - he would have had a field day over the past week. Of course, we would have had to endure another tedious repetitious barrage of the same old, same old, so we can be grateful for some respite.

However, it definitely would be nice to get some news about some sales action rather than more examples of how good the product is. The best science in the world is not a great deal of use if nobody wants to pay for it!

[whatsup]

As I predicted there has been a minor flurry of announcements from PEB in advance of the FY19 release next week.

Pity poor old Balance languishing in the naughty corner - he would have had a field day over the past week. Of course, we would have had to endure another tedious repetitious barrage of the same old, same old, so we can be grateful for some respite.

However, it definitely would be nice to get some news about some sales action rather than more examples of how good the product is. The best science in the world is not a great deal of use if nobody wants to pay for it!

From my experience he can still read the forums comments just cannot post so imo will have a lot of pent up comments to post when the black listing is lifted. !!

[davflaws]

However, it definitely would be nice to get some news about some sales action rather than more examples of how good the product is. The best science in the world is not a great deal of use if nobody wants to pay for it!

It would certainly be nice to hear about sales action, but ultimately not very many people are going to want to pay for a product that can't be robustly proven to work, and lots of people will prefer (and ultimately pay for) one that can.

Perhaps PEB would have had a stellar trajectory if it had adopted a different strategy in approaching regulatory approval, or big pharma had come aboard, or or or - and certainly the Directors have made some very unwise announcements and attempts to "spin", but I don't see how publication and scientific validation in larger and larger studies can be anything but good news.

[Ggcc]

It would certainly be nice to hear about sales action, but ultimately not very many people are going to want to pay for a product that can't be robustly proven to work, and lots of people will prefer (and ultimately pay for) one that can.

Perhaps PEB would have had a stellar trajectory if it had adopted a different strategy in approaching regulatory approval, or big pharma had come aboard, or or or - and certainly the Directors have made some very unwise announcements and attempts to "spin", but I don't see how publication and scientific validation in larger and larger studies can be anything but good news.
You will get to see the sales results on the 29th and I believe you will not be pleasantly surprised. Maybe a capital raise coming up....

As I said before I do want this company to succeed and would invest again if the story changed into something profitable. Due to dilution of this share, I do not see the share price exceeding $1 even if they hit the $100 million sales in the near future. All the best to holders and hope that PEB manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat. I sold out at 48 cents and purchased at roughly 65 cents. I feel lucky so far.

[davflaws]

You will get to see the sales results on the 29th and I believe you will not be pleasantly surprised. Maybe a capital raise coming up....

As I said before I do want this company to succeed and would invest again if the story changed into something profitable. Due to dilution of this share, I do not see the share price exceeding $1 even if they hit the $100 million sales in the near future. All the best to holders and hope that PEB manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat. I sold out at 48 cents and purchased at roughly 65 cents. I feel lucky so far.

Sorry - I wasn't clear enough. I have no idea what the sales figures will be. They have been pretty abysmal so far. But I believe the publication of further impressive results in prestigious journals is good news for the company. Balance of course may think otherwise, but I am sure he will tell us when he returns.

[Drew95]

OK. I know I am taking a risk here. And not just financially. I am taking the risk of striking the match which could ignite another firestorm of passionate debate as well. Call me old-fashioned. A contrarion. Or dare I say it - 'un-'Balanced'. As a past investor in, and loser of considerable funds, through investing in PEB, I have decided I am going to throw off the last shackles from my straight-jacket of thwarted expectations, and start accumulating PEB shares again. OK. Here is my rationale.


#1. I have recently become convinced that CX-Bladder is actually a damn fine product. LINK: https://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838(19)30351-3/fulltext ... "the paper provides compelling evidence further validating the performance of Cxbladder in evaluating patients who have inconclusive diagnosis for UC following cystoscopy and cytology[2] . Cxbladder delivered 100% accuracy in adjudicating atypical and equivocal diagnostic results enabling physicians to resolve this diagnostic dilemma without the inconvenience and added cost of re-evaluating the patient. Cxbladder also significantly outperformed cytology for accurately identifying patients who do not have UC. This real world outcome positions Cxbladder for consideration for inclusion in international guidelines."
#2 Closing in on 100% take up by DHBs in NZ.
#3 Close to jumping hurdle 3 of 3 hurdle in the US
#4 Enough cash to last 3 years aprrox. even without an improving run-rate
#5 Declining OPEX
# and several more signs that the worm may have turned.


I too had thrown the baby out with the bath-water on this one, but I have now fished the baby from the drain, washed it down and taken a close look. And now that the baby is a bit older, I think I see growth hormones.


And PEB has the same odour as some other shares I have watched. And watched. And invested in. And lost money on. Because it takes always takes longer thn you want. XRO, PLX, A2M come to mind.


DISC. Have purchased a very small bundle and am watching closely.

[blackcap]

Drew95, how did you arrive at #4?

I make it another cash raise within 6-12 months.

[Drew95]

Drew95, how did you arrive at #4?

I make it another cash raise within 6-12 months.

Yep sorry. Put a 6 month number in my spreadsheet thinking it was a 12 month number.

You are right. By my (revised) calculations, they would need to increase sales by 100% annually to avoid the need for a cash raise.

6 month to Sept 17 / 6 months to Sept 18 Operating Revenue +42% so heading in the right direction.

And they would need keep a lid on OPEX - I would like more insight into the correlation between Revenue and OPEX. In the same period as O/R was up 42%, OPEX was down by 15%.

At the current 42% annual growth rate would need about another $20+ mill. over 3 years with cash running out before March 2020- as you say. Is this close to what you get?

So the question is - can they double sales annually for the next couple of years?

[t.rexjr]

#1. I have recently become convinced that CX-Bladder is actually a damn fine product. LINK: https://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838(19)30351-3/fulltext ... "the paper provides compelling evidence further validating the performance of Cxbladder in evaluating patients who have inconclusive diagnosis for UC following cystoscopy and cytology[2] . Cxbladder delivered 100% accuracy in adjudicating atypical and equivocal diagnostic results enabling physicians to resolve this diagnostic dilemma without the inconvenience and added cost of re-evaluating the patient. Cxbladder also significantly outperformed cytology for accurately identifying patients who do not have UC. This real world outcome positions Cxbladder for consideration for inclusion in international guidelines."

Unfortunately I don't see that having a 'damn fine product' holds much weight in the sector. To me it's a "Do you think management can be more than lambs in a bull pen" question.

Big fish eat little fish...

[Sideshow Bob]

PEB has been going since 2001, I guess based on much of the original science? In the time taken to develop the product, get to market, get regulatory approval and gain market traction in the last 18 years, how has new scientific or technological developments surpassed them??

While I really wanted them to be a success, it seems more unlikely as time drifts and cash burns.....

Disc: Never held.

[winner69]

Strong growth reported ...and its accelerating

Pretty cool


http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/335209/300760.pdf

[Leftfield]

The wait is over...

• Overall, the Company reported a net loss of $(17.9)m for the year, an improvement of 9% on FY18.
• Pacific Edge had cash, cash equivalents and short term deposits of $12.9m as at 31 March 2019.

Only a matter of time before the next cash raise. Here's the full report. (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335209)

GLH.

[winner69]

Accumulated losses now $137m ....pretty impressive

[Ggcc]

I think the numbers speak for themselves...... Unfortunately

[minimoke]

I think I have this right, Since inception in 2001 PEB have generated a grand total of $26m in revenues or an average of $1.4m a year.

Is this the biggest joke on the NZX

[kiwidollabill]

Oh no....

This is worse than even I expected...

- Revenue is flat
- They are clearly doing some minor cost-out of Sales/Marking and R&D (which is why the loss is 2M less than last year), the opposite to a growth company
- And recievables is up to 1.2M
- <5M cash at the end of Mar they will have almost burnt through in the next month or so....

[kiwidollabill]

I think I have this right, Since inception in 2001 PEB have generated a grand total of $26m in revenues or an average of $1.4m a year.

Is this the biggest joke on the NZX

Is that 'real' customer revenue or includes grants and R&D subsidies?

[Hectorplains]

I think I have this right, Since inception in 2001 PEB have generated a grand total of $26m in revenues or an average of $1.4m a year.

Is this the biggest joke on the NZX

26 pages and not a single mention of Kaiser...

[Ggcc]

The market loves the result................ Interpret that how you want. Thank you Balance!!!

[BigBob]

26 pages and not a single mention of Kaiser...

They make up for it by mentioning CMS eight or nine times.... ;-)

[silu]

Old me would have kept my parcel of PEB in the hope they'll come right one day but new me was selling everything at a steep loss at $1.28 way back in 2013. I hope anyone who got stung by PEB will learn from this as did I from other examples.

[Hectorplains]

They make up for it by mentioning CMS eight or nine times.... ;-)

This from the NZX ann, "Management is focused on completing agreements and building sales from the large institutional accounts and payers it is targeting, including Kaiser Permanente." So KP agreement is now not complete?

[winner69]

Goodness gracious ...share price below 20 cents

Must be over sold

[minimoke]

Goodness gracious ...share price below 20 cents

Must be over soldMore room to go. Now at 0.185 a new all time low low.

[kiwidollabill]

This from the NZX ann, "Management is focused on completing agreements and building sales from the large institutional accounts and payers it is targeting, including Kaiser Permanente." So KP agreement is now not complete?

Surely this is the time to come out and say 'we've messed up, our path to market hasn't worked and here's how we're going to turn the ship to create value'. Waiting on hopes and dreams isnt a pathway to success.

[Schrodinger]

What kind of board member would sign off on a 12% revenue increase to $3.8M while running more than $20M loss i.e open chequebook on SH funds? Valuation around $15M so $0.03 share price. What does Chelsea think?

Head for the hills while you can...$10m CASH IN BANK.

[davflaws]

26 pages and not a single mention of Kaiser...

Bottom left slide 11

[Hectorplains]

Bottom left slide 11

Right you are! Well hidden, eh. 'Where's Wally' style...

[Hectorplains]

Surely this is the time to come out and say 'we've messed up, our path to market hasn't worked and here's how we're going to turn the ship to create value'. Waiting on hopes and dreams isnt a pathway to success.

Messed up or mislead? It's pretty clear that they don't have a Plan B. Last announcement it was SE Asia... That appears to have gone nowhere , in the customary PEB style.

[golden city]

Looks like cash only can last to at best September

[Schrodinger]

Someones definitely trying to game the share price for the next cap raise - buyers beware

[davflaws]

Old me would have kept my parcel of PEB in the hope they'll come right one day but new me was selling everything at a steep loss at $1.28 way back in 2013. I hope anyone who got stung by PEB will learn from this as did I from other examples.

ATM was once about 5% of my portfolio, and now it is over half. PLX and BLT were once way underwater. On the other hand, SUM and HGH were once a lot bigger. There will be another cash raise. Probably soon.

But the product is capable of taking a huge chunk of a very big market. So for six hundred bucks (even if about to be further diluted), I'll stay in the game.

[whatsup]

ATM was once about 5% of my portfolio, and now it is over half. PLX and BLT were once way underwater. On the other hand, SUM and HGH were once a lot bigger. There will be another cash raise. Probably soon.

But the product is capable of taking a huge chunk of a very big market. So for six hundred bucks (even if about to be further diluted), I'll stay in the game.


Trouble with a company like PEB the future is only an announcement away, when that will happen is anyones call, imo it is too late to sell away atm so the real question that we all have to ask ourselves is " do I subscribe more money to this cash pit or do I wait for the "good news" announcements?

[pierre]

This from the NZX ann, "Management is focused on completing agreements and building sales from the large institutional accounts and payers it is targeting, including Kaiser Permanente." So KP agreement is now not complete?

I think management is actually on their knees every day praying for a miracle. If they're not - they certainly should be.

The only relief that comes from today's announcement is that Balance is not around to add his torment to that already evident to most of us.

[Ggcc]

Trouble with a company like PEB the future is only an announcement away, when that will happen is anyones call, imo it is too late to sell away atm so the real question that we all have to ask ourselves is " do I subscribe more money to this cash pit or do I wait for the "good news" announcements?
Think about it and put the numbers together. If PEB generates the full $100 million turnover, what would the share price be?? I can tell you now no more than $1 per share, unless they would grow after that by 15-20%......... Now what is the chance of that happening anytime soon?

If you look at more cash issues you can also see more dilution in that $1 figure I gave you.

[minimoke]

Trouble with a company like PEB the future is only an announcement away, when that will happen is anyones call, imo it is too late to sell away atm so the real question that we all have to ask ourselves is " do I subscribe more money to this cash pit or do I wait for the "good news" announcements?Why would you even bother waiting. Even if a good new announcement did turn up PEB management has a long track record of commercial incompetence. My money would be on them doing a Bill Shorten (turning a unlosable commercial gain into a loss)

[Ggcc]

I think management is actually on their knees every day praying for a miracle. If they're not - they certainly should be.

The only relief that comes from today's announcement is that Balance is not around to add his torment to that already evident to most of us.
I believe where you are now is where I was about 3 months before I sold out. I had enough of the management carrot B.S. I was always invested thinking longterm, but longterm became long long longterm. I so wanted PEB to succeed, not just for me but NZ and shareholders.

I have witnessed your perseverance throughout the constant barrage of attacks about the company from Balance.
At the end of the day he proved to be correct and although I did not like admitting defeat, I sold and saved my capital.

Of course I don't know how much you are invested in this company and it may still prove to be a winner in the future. I wish all holders the best, but brace for the worst.

[whatsup]

Why would you even bother waiting. Even if a good new announcement did turn up PEB management has a long track record of commercial incompetence. My money would be on them doing a Bill Shorten (turning a unlosable commercial gain into a loss)

mini. Bill Shorty , didn't ever have a unloseable election, it was all "margin of error " stuff and people didn't realise that.

[silu]

ATM was once about 5% of my portfolio, and now it is over half. PLX and BLT were once way underwater. On the other hand, SUM and HGH were once a lot bigger. There will be another cash raise. Probably soon.

But the product is capable of taking a huge chunk of a very big market. So for six hundred bucks (even if about to be further diluted), I'll stay in the game.

Yeah I had 10k shares bought at $1.53. If I would have held on I would have needed a 700% return from current levels just to break even. Happy to buy back into PEB should they crack some of the goals they were promising for so long.

[Sideshow Bob]

Jeepers, just scrolled through the preso, and you read the first few pages and you think 'holy f888, this looks great!'. "A Unique Global Position" :eek2:

No financial forecast for 2020...…..

[whatsup]

.18 ATL ( all time low ) atm , cripies they will have to discount the rights issue now in a big way to get it across the line now considering the last one was at .32 ( almost double the current price now ) as opposed to SKO which today hit its ATH ( all time high ) @ $3.57 !!!!

[Minerbarejet]

1: Revenue excludes tests sold in the US for which cash payment has yet to be received, as well as tests completed for patients covered by the CMS. CMS tests account forapproximately 47% of annual US laboratory throughput and Pacific Edge will seek reimbursement for these when it is included in the CMS’s Local Coverage Determination (LCD). Asat 31 March 2019, Pacific Edge has completed and invoiced a total of 17,015 tests for CMS patients in the USA, for which we are yet to be reimbursed.

I make that nearly 20 million NZD. :)

[Schrodinger]

1: Revenue excludes tests sold in the US for which cash payment has yet to be received, as well as tests completed for patients covered by the CMS. CMS tests account forapproximately 47% of annual US laboratory throughput and Pacific Edge will seek reimbursement for these when it is included in the CMS’s Local Coverage Determination (LCD). Asat 31 March 2019, Pacific Edge has completed and invoiced a total of 17,015 tests for CMS patients in the USA, for which we are yet to be reimbursed.

I make that nearly 20 million NZD. :)

Ill play the game...what are the due dates/debtor ages??

[silverblizzard888]

1: Revenue excludes tests sold in the US for which cash payment has yet to be received, as well as tests completed for patients covered by the CMS. CMS tests account forapproximately 47% of annual US laboratory throughput and Pacific Edge will seek reimbursement for these when it is included in the CMS’s Local Coverage Determination (LCD). Asat 31 March 2019, Pacific Edge has completed and invoiced a total of 17,015 tests for CMS patients in the USA, for which we are yet to be reimbursed.

I make that nearly 20 million NZD. :)

Is that a total for the time being in the US or for the financial year? Cause those account receivables don't show it if it is the case.

[Minerbarejet]

Thats what the unholy kerfuffle last year was all about.
Taking all the unpaid CMS tests out of the equation and reporting sales only when the money arrives in the US usually up to a year late.
When CMS decides to issue the LCD it will be interesting to see how much of the amount owing actually arrives.

[Baa_Baa]

Thats what the unholy kerfuffle last year was all about.
Taking all the unpaid CMS tests out of the equation and reporting sales only when the money arrives in the US usually up to a year late.
When CMS decides to issue the LCD it will be interesting to see how much of the amount owing actually arrives.

At least you acknowledge implicitly, perhaps in absence of the previously continual derision, that there may be some doubt whether PEB ever get paid, or how much gets paid for the $20m or so (your number) worth of CMS tests. Any which way you look at it, this is one seriously awkward business.

GLTAH

[kiwidollabill]

To the same point, how likely are CMS going to be to cough up payment on vapour invoices which are years old? Are there examples with other early stage businesses/products in the US where that indeed has occured?

[Minerbarejet]

If any NZ control authority was to take on a US made product in the nature of cxBladder and utilize it in the way that CMS has done, accumulating endless verification and data at no initial cost to them in order to be absolutely certain of its practicality and usefulness, I think there would be some sort of polite request for payment.

The litigation scene and endless cases in the US are the barrier to any risk involved.

Its not just the product itself that they are selling, its the requirement to change an entrenched system of clinical pathways for a superior result.

The evidence is accumulating more and more that this test exceeds its original mandate as an adjunct to cystoscopy, in some cases replacing it.

[bottomfeeder]

If the company ever gets sufficient sales, to even break even, (and I sincerely doubt it), We will still have to deal with the over exuberance of the company staff and directors.
As a result I see the following:
Shareholding watered down so much, through continuous captal raising.
The company will take so many years to cover losses accumulated.
Directors will pat themselves on the back so hard, they will give themselves large payrises to make them feel better.
Then as doctors they will start to research another product which will have the same 'cost to profitability model', which will absorb any of the possible cash flow from cxbladder
and more. This company is doomed financially, but may be carrying out a beneficial service. I think the best scenario is that a takeover is carried out by one of the big pharma. But I cant see windfall profits being passed onto shareholders. PEB, is supporting the Otago University, training, and infrastructure cost only, with cxbladder a fun learning experience only.

[whatsup]

Great buying opportunity yesterday for those who did not pony up in last years SPP !, who had the courage?

[Arthur]

From memory they were hoping that half the unpaid tests would be paid when LCD came through. They seem convinced it will come although I think they talked of expecting it to take 3 years from the start and that has morphed to 5. Now that the results are out the directors will be able to fill their pockets buying shares with their own money.....oh that's right, money where their mouths are is sadly lacking.

[Longhaul]

Great buying opportunity yesterday for those who did not pony up in last years SPP !, who had the courage?

Felt like I was walking through the valley of death but I picked up a small parcel at 18c.

Back on the PEB register for the first time in a few years.

[bottomfeeder]

I can understand the temptation, the company is producing something and its beneficial to society. However, really need a big pharma behind it to bring it on line. Technology moves so fast, that unless such tests are integrated into the market swiftly, they are surpasssed by other products for various reasons. Worse still PEB is virtually run by doctors. The company needs a board who are exempt from the connection doctors have with the product and view it virtually as a business product. At this rate of growth, they will never be profitable. If by some chance they are profitable, then the number of shares on issue will be so much that it will be a stock that you hold as a gift to mankind.
Yes we think buy now and wait till the next announcement which will give you a quick profit.

Wynyard was the same, but its the last announcement that major shareholders are no longer going to support the company that kills your investment. It that the next one or the one after that. This is not an investment, it is a gamble and the odds are not that good, something approximating a one armed bandit on a cruise ship.

Having said that, the contrary opinion is what do I know. My assertions will invariably be wrong, the share price will start to take off, the company will become profitable and profits will abound for all. So take out a mortgage on the house and get in big time. NOT

[kiwidollabill]

Any idea how much $ FNZC has in this? If they loose the faith then it could be all over..

[Sideshow Bob]

Felt like I was walking through the valley of death but I picked up a small parcel at 18c.



Always a good feeling when you are buying some shares.... :scared:

[Longhaul]

Always a good feeling when you are buying some shares.... :scared:

Well if you are a trader, the good feeling comes from the nearly 14% gain in less than 24 hours :p

[bottomfeeder]

Well if you are a trader, the good feeling comes from the nearly 14% gain in less than 24 hours :p

When to buy and When to Sell. Forget about hindsight. Lets get some forward thinking here. Are we working on luck , gambling. Propensity is the catchword. I would say this is a dog share. Any buy is tempered with the thought that "exuberance is an investment attitude" Or "Lets buy and see where it goes, I dont want to make money, I just want to be there to buy and sell. Thats what excites me, if I make a profit good, if I make a loss, its exciting anyway. OR do you want to be an intelligent investor. There are a few shares on the NZ market, Just which ones do I get involved in. Is there a propensity to go down or is there a propensity to go up.

PEB, has no propensity to go up, but probably dow based on past experience. You are grasping at straws if you feel this is just going to bound out of the park. From what I have read a lot of traders on this site, should really make up their minds whether they are gambling or investing, or hoping for the best. Get intelligent. Remove all prejudices, feelings, and sit back and make a decision. Do I need this risk, or lets just wait for a better indicatiuon of where the informed market is going.

[Longhaul]

Do I need this risk, or lets just wait for a better indicatiuon of where the informed market is going.

Well for those out there who know that risk management is THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect of investing or trading, it doesn't matter how a dollar is made. With respect to PEB, at this point I have no emotional attachment to whether it goes up or down, I will just trade with whatever the market is telling me.

BTW a director bought 500,000 shares today. What do we make of this?

[Arthur]

Had a brief look at the accounts. They have a contingent asset of $7.2 million for tests done where they expect to be paid at some stage (mainly slow insurance payers). This is up over $2 million in the last year, so payment progress is glacial. If they do get paid when(if) LCD is made that's another $10m (if half is paid). It's possible they will muddle through without another issue if LCD is soon (it has been imminent (iterative process etc) for several reports now)

[BigBob]

Now that the results are out the directors will be able to fill their pockets buying shares with their own money.....oh that's right, money where their mouths are is sadly lacking.

Well, this time it's different....: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335313

500,000 @ $100k bought on the market for one of the directors....

[Arthur]

Well, this time it's different....: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335313

500,000 @ $100k bought on the market for one of the directors....

New director must have missed the memo, hope he does well

[Longhaul]

New director must have missed the memo, hope he does well

Investment banker with experience in capital markets, mergers and acquisitions. Sounds like he brings useful skills to the board and probably ain't a naive investor. Only time will tell.

[Ggcc]

Well, this time it's different....: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335313

500,000 @ $100k bought on the market for one of the directors....
I have not seen this in a while if ever. Can someone show me a director who actually purchased this amount of shares on market? Well done for putting your money where your mouth is. Not yet convinced.

[Dentie]

The (science leaning) Board had every right to be confident and positive in their product. The science has been proven over and over again and has never been in doubt.

For me, their biggest mistake - now clearly evident - was being too excitedly attracted to the glitzy US market, like a lot of growth companies, without taking the necessary time to understand how they operate over there and just how much working capital would be needed to fund the growth and where it would come from. (IE - Look at the losses XRO incurred trying to get a foot in the US market). It seems clear the US is not an ideal country to try and grow a startup product - it will only throttle (& keep throttling) the lifeblood of the company.

Taking 5 years to get the likes of an LCD is an absolute joke - especially when you have an unrivaled & potentially life saving product which benefits patients so much.

As for whether CMS will front up with all the "receivable" $$$ - well, if they don't, then I would advise DD has a chat with Ron Mark and get the Kia Kaha and its helicopter to drop anchor in San Francisco Bay (along with some choice Kiwi rhetoric). They'll understand then that we mean business!!

[Hectorplains]

I have not seen this in a while if ever. Can someone show me a director who actually purchased this amount of shares on market? Well done for putting your money where your mouth is. Not yet convinced.

How about FIVE times that: https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20190325/pdf/443r9rpz0q0qzh.pdf

I am not yet convinced about MHI. I am convinced PEB is a poor 'investment.'

[Minerbarejet]

Has anyone else taken the time to dissect the figures contained in the presentation?

I'm getting an indication that there is a pipeline of cash about to start flowing.

I'm also getting an indication that there wont be a lot of patients required for a break even situation.

[Arthur]

Has anyone else taken the time to dissect the figures contained in the presentation?

I'm getting an indication that there is a pipeline of cash about to start flowing.

I'm also getting an indication that there wont be a lot of patients required for a break even situation.
A pile of cash that they hope starts flowing. If they get LCD some of the missing millions might get paid. They are owed about $7m from insurance companies that have not paid, up from $5 million unpaid a year ago. With a price now there may be fewer excuses for non payment, but last year's overdue $5 million did not rush in door in January when the price went live.
They talk of the NZ side possibly coming cash flow positive this year.

[Minerbarejet]

Would you agree that having the test Codes in place and prices set effective Jan 1st will make payment a lot easier and also quicker by having details required immediately to hand?
Do we look at the possibility that all tests done prior to Code issue would have needed rebilling with the codes included to speed things up and these may be starting to filter through?

[Ggcc]

How about FIVE times that: https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20190325/pdf/443r9rpz0q0qzh.pdf

I am not yet convinced about MHI. I am convinced PEB is a poor 'investment.'

Sorry I meant PEB shares only not the whole market in general. Thanks for the response anyway.

[Snow Leopard]

Has anyone else taken the time to dissect the figures contained in the presentation?

I'm getting an indication that there is a pipeline of cash about to start flowing.

I'm also getting an indication that there wont be a lot of patients required for a break even situation.

I found the presentation rather vague where it matters but I have not read much about PEB for a while.

With expenses at $23M you need the cash from 20,000 US sold tests at US$760 each, or 50,000 (or 60,000?, or more?) NZ sold tests to break even [Does anyone know what a NZ test sells for?].

But if you reach those figures your expenses will be higher so add more for luck.

So then you have a breakeven company and it needs to do even more to justify the $100M market cap.

So while optimism is a wonderful thing and we will all be pleased if PEB stops bleeding cash it is well within the bounds of possibility that this still has a long road ahead to commercial viability let alone being value for money.

So I will continue to invest my money on travelling down the Adriatic coast of Italy instead.

[Nigelk]

1: Revenue excludes tests sold in the US for which cash payment has yet to be received, as well as tests completed for patients covered by the CMS. CMS tests account forapproximately 47% of annual US laboratory throughput and Pacific Edge will seek reimbursement for these when it is included in the CMS’s Local Coverage Determination (LCD). Asat 31 March 2019, Pacific Edge has completed and invoiced a total of 17,015 tests for CMS patients in the USA, for which we are yet to be reimbursed.

I make that nearly 20 million NZD. :)

"US customers – patients covered by CMSThe Group has judged it is not probable that any consideration will be received from CMS as inclusion in the LocalCoverage Determination (LCD) with the CMS has not yet been obtained. Therefore, no revenue is recognised forany patients covered by CMS" source - Consolidated Financial Statements

[BigBob]

"US customers – patients covered by CMSThe Group has judged it is not probable that any consideration will be received from CMS as inclusion in the LocalCoverage Determination (LCD) with the CMS has not yet been obtained. Therefore, no revenue is recognised forany patients covered by CMS" source - Consolidated Financial Statements

Doesn't that just mean that consideration is not probable in the current reporting period and therefore revenue is not included in that period...? That's certainly what this implies...:

"Importantly, in October, the company received notification of the Cxbladder test national reimbursement rate (US$760) from CMS. Once the company receives Local Coverage Determination (LCD), Pacific Edge will be able to get reimbursement for Medicare claims and will enable reimbursement and negotiation for payment on 14,000 tests previously performed on CMS patients. The LCD process is ongoing and once completed will be a major driver of future growth."

https://www.edisongroup.com/company/pacific-edge/1973/

And, yes, I know it's Edison, and that a grain of salt is required....

[Dentie]

Doesn't that just mean that consideration is not probable in the current reporting period and therefore revenue is not included in that period...? That's certainly what this implies...:

"Importantly, in October, the company received notification of the Cxbladder test national reimbursement rate (US$760) from CMS. Once the company receives Local Coverage Determination (LCD), Pacific Edge will be able to get reimbursement for Medicare claims and will enable reimbursement and negotiation for payment on 14,000 tests previously performed on CMS patients. The LCD process is ongoing and once completed will be a major driver of future growth."

https://www.edisongroup.com/company/pacific-edge/1973/

And, yes, I know it's Edison, and that a grain of salt is required....

Edison don't seem to be known for accuracy....Chairman = Christopher Swann. Wrong Christopher!!

[BigBob]

Edison don't seem to be known for accuracy....Chairman = Christopher Swann. Wrong Christopher!!

LOL... Please see my disclaimer in previous post... :-)

[blackcap]

LOL... Please see my disclaimer in previous post... :-)

But But....

An introduction to Edison Group
The cornerstones of our research brand at Edison Group are integrity, credibility and trust.

The heart of Edison is our world renowned equity research platform and deep multi-sector expertise. At Edison Investment Research, our research is widely read by international investors, advisors and stakeholders. Edison Advisors leverages our core research platform to provide differentiated services including investor relations and strategic consulting.

https://www.edisongroup.com/about-us/

[Ggcc]

back down to 18 cents must be a buy now????? Oh wait DYOR

[whatsup]

Interesting activity today, WHATSUP ?

[blackcap]

Interesting activity today, WHATSUP ?

Well Chris Gallagher purchased 200k shares and Sarah Park bought about 23k.

Normally insiders buying is seen as a bullish signal.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335768

[Timesurfer]

back down to 18 cents must be a buy now????? Oh wait DYOR

Another great deal for traders.
One day it might not bounce back and that will burn a few I am guessing.

[Ggcc]

Another great deal for traders.
One day it might not bounce back and that will burn a few I am guessing.
It has been amazing for traders. Well done to those who did well I won’t be getting involved in this share again, unless sales increase in the ooo’s percentage in one year

[Nigelk]

I wrote to Pacific Edge seeking clarification on the revenue from CMS tests undertaken. My email is first, then their reply below, then some comments from me.


I'm a shareholder seeking clarification on some statements made by Pacific Edge about revenue recognition for tests on CMS patients.


One statement was:
As at 31 March 2019, Pacific Edge has completed and invoiced a total of 17,015 tests for CMS patients in the USA, for which we are yet to be reimbursed.



The other from your consolidated financial statements was:
US customers – patients covered by CMS The Group has judged it is not probable that any consideration will be received from CMS as inclusion in the Local Coverage Determination (LCD) with the CMS has not yet been obtained. Therefore, no revenue is recognised for any patients covered by CMS"



So, when you state ".. it is not probably that any consideration will be received from CMS", do you mean any consideration received won't be recognised in the period to 31 March, 2019?
Or, do you mean that you don't expect to receive any consideration at all for the tests undertaken in that period on CMS patients?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for your email and questions on how the revenue from Cxbladder tests for CMS patients is recognised. There are two parts to this, as you have identified:



Cumulatively to 31 March 2019, 17,015 tests have been performed for CMS patients for which Pacific Edge has not been paid. Until Cxbladder is included in the LCD, it is unknown what level of revenue will be received for these tests and because of this uncertainty, no revenue can be recognised. The accounting policy that you have picked up from the consolidated financial statements refers to the treatment of revenue in the 2018 and 2019 financial years.




Once Cxbladder has been included in the LCD, Pacific Edge will discuss the reimbursement of all tests performed for CMS patients with the CMS. All 17,015 tests have been invoiced to the CMS but the discussion on payment for these tests can only be done once the LCD inclusion is obtained.


Kind regards

Pacific Edge Limited
----------------------------------------------------------------
This raises 3 questions for me?

(1) 17K tests is well beyond a trial- so why would PEB do so many unless they believed they would eventually get paid for them?

(2) Would the US Government as the operator of CMS, not pay their bills to an important supplier, just because the required approval was received retrospectively?

(3) If PEB can undertake 17K tests to date and there is an ongoing need for them and no indication that CMS are no longer wanting PEB to do them, won't this read to a big jump in eventual revenue?

DYOR

[Balance]

This raises 3 questions for me?

(1) 17K tests is well beyond a trial- so why would PEB do so many unless they believed they would eventually get paid for them?

(2) Would the US Government as the operator of CMS, not pay their bills to an important supplier, just because the required approval was received retrospectively?

(3) If PEB can undertake 17K tests to date and there is an ongoing need for them and no indication that CMS are no longer wanting PEB to do them, won't this read to a big jump in eventual revenue?

DYOR


[/FONT]

Good they replied.

I have some feedback from Florida where my biomed contact works and he tends to agree with you re payment from CMS once LCD inclusion is obtained.

[minimoke]

..........

[Nigelk]

I think it's more complex than that.
My read is...

Patients need bladder tests
CMS want PEB to do them.
PEB want to do them, but don't have LCD inclusion
They can't be deferred (patient safety) PEB don't want another supplier to do them, so they do the tests.
PEB issues an invoice for the tests done but know they won't get paid until their LCD inclusion is obtained.
So issues are - will they get LCD inclusion? and, will they be paid for the tests done prior to receiving it?

[Balance]

I think it's more complex than that.

So issues are - will they get LCD inclusion? and, will they be paid for the tests done prior to receiving it?

According to my biomed contact, PEB made a strategic mistake and blunder by not obtaining FDA clearance for CxBladder. The MAC give weight to FDA clearance of any medical devices and technologies.

The situation regarding LCD inclusion since October 2018 is (summary) :

"Medicare Administrative Contractors (MAC) tasked with deciding what medical technologies qualify for Medicare coverage in local geographical areas will now be required to publish a summary of clinical evidence supporting their decisions, include a beneficiary representative and non-physician healthcare workers on advisory committees, and ensure that Contractor Advisory Committee meetings are open to the public." Section 4009 of the 21st Century Cures Act passed in September 2018.

[Nigelk]

According to my biomed contact, PEB made a strategic mistake and blunder by not obtaining FDA clearance for CxBladder.

The situation regarding LCD inclusion since October 2018 is (summary) :

"Medicare Administrative Contractors (MAC) tasked with deciding what medical technologies qualify for Medicare coverage in local geographical areas will now be required to publish a summary of clinical evidence supporting their decisions, include a beneficiary representative and non-physician healthcare workers on advisory committees, and ensure that Contractor Advisory Committee meetings are open to the public." Section 4009 of the 21st Century Cures Act passed in September 2018.

The MAC give weight to FDA clearance of any medical devices and technologies.



It appears that stage 1 is getting a CPT code, stage 2 is a reimbursement rate set, then stage 3 the LCD inclusion. Stages 1 and 2 are completed and their language regarding 3 is pretty positive as you can see below (once PEB receives inclusion...)
If FDA approval was required, you wouldn't have had CMS do so many (15K) tests on actual patients.

The national reimbursement rate covers the Cxbladder tests awarded national CPT codes in the USA earlier this year.....and will apply to Cxbladder test claims submitted to CMS once Pacific Edge receives inclusion in the Local Coverage Determination (LCD) for Medicare coverage.

[Balance]

It appears that stage 1 is getting a CPT code, stage 2 is a reimbursement rate set, then stage 3 the LCD inclusion. Stages 1 and 2 are completed and their language regarding 3 is pretty positive as you can see below (once PEB receives inclusion...)
If FDA approval was required, you wouldn't have had CMS do so many (15K) tests on actual patients.

The national reimbursement rate covers the Cxbladder tests awarded national CPT codes in the USA earlier this year.....and will apply to Cxbladder test claims submitted to CMS once Pacific Edge receives inclusion in the Local Coverage Determination (LCD) for Medicare coverage.

I get the impression that PEB thought they had such a smoking hot (or is it piss hot:p) product that they would just sail through the approval & inclusion process with CMS and MAC.

Should have spent a year or two getting FDA approval and would not have had to spend the last 5 years wandering in the wilderness, burning up tens of millions of cash year after year!

[Minerbarejet]

Great stuff, hindsight
And not necessarily correct either.

[Balance]

Great stuff, hindsight
And not necessarily correct either.

Hindsight?

Who has been deadly accurate on PEB and it’s diabolical performance on just about everything to date?

But not to worry - directors and management have done very very very well, pulling in and burning tens of millions of dollars to pay big salaries* & enjoy the good life by dragging the story out.

*$3.6m in the last 2 years for CEOs

[Balance]

Hindsight?

Who has been deadly accurate on PEB and it’s diabolical performance on just about everything to date?

But not to worry - directors and management have done very very very well, pulling in and burning tens of millions of dollars to pay big salaries* & enjoy the good life by dragging the story out.

*$3.6m in the last 2 years for CEOs

To put the $3.6m in perspective, the average CEO pay in NZ according to Payscale is $158k

More glaring is the fact that David Mair of Skellerup gets paid $600k a year!

[kiwidollabill]

I get the impression that PEB thought they had such a shxt hot (or is it pissing hot:p) product that they would just sail through the approval & inclusion process with CMS and MAC.

Should have spent a year or two getting FDA approval and would not have had to spend the last 5 years wandering in the wilderness, burning up tens of millions of cash year after year!

Who did they bring on (if anyone...) early stage to manage regulatory/FDA compliance. Plenty of academics but they have very little (in my experience) to add in commercialisation and regulatory/QA.

For agencies like FDA it matters very little how 'good' your product is, and very much so how well everything is documented and suitably validated.....

[Balance]

Who did they bring on (if anyone...) early stage to manage regulatory/FDA compliance. Plenty of academics but they have very little (in my experience) to add in commercialisation and regulatory/QA.

For agencies like FDA it matters very little how 'good' your product is, and very much so how well everything is documented and suitably validated.....

You are right there, kiwidollabill.

I must admit that I was suitably impressed in the early days of commercialization with the academia in PEB's Scientific Advisory Board.

[kiwidollabill]

You are right there, kiwidollabill.

I must admit that I was suitably impressed in the early days of commercialization with the academia in PEB's Scientific Advisory Board.

I'm puzzled as to how naive they could be by taking the laboratory developed test pathway rather than FDA, particularly when you are reliant on a govt payment schedule. The other main cancer DNA tests I know of (or at least when my knowledge was better in this space a few years ago) all had FDA clearance otherwise they were sold as 'not for diagnostic use'. Moreover, the space for operating LDTs that are clearly for diagnostic use is going to get significantly harder (think the damage Theranos has done). Have they published a pathway to getting FDA cleared at all? Otherwise, getting on the CMS schedule might be essentially a no-go. Unless someone can point to other examples where comparabile LDTs are covered by CMS

[Carpenterjoe]

I'm puzzled as to how naive they could be by taking the laboratory developed test pathway rather than FDA, particularly when you are reliant on a govt payment schedule. The other main cancer DNA tests I know of (or at least when my knowledge was better in this space a few years ago) all had FDA clearance otherwise they were sold as 'not for diagnostic use'. Moreover, the space for operating LDTs that are clearly for diagnostic use is going to get significantly harder (think the damage Theranos has done). Have they published a pathway to getting FDA cleared at all? Otherwise, getting on the CMS schedule might be essentially a no-go. Unless someone can point to other examples where comparabile LDTs are covered by CMS


Wow, do you think FDA approval would be any easier?

Look at CUV, I think its been circa 10 years and two different brand names and they are now just getting FDA approval, Hopefully anyway. Otherwise the 400% i am up will get smashed.


The goal posts are always changing,

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/vitro-diagnostics/laboratory-developed-tests


The good news is, PEB are one announcement away from being cashflow positive.

[Carpenterjoe]

I think it's more complex than that.
My read is...

Patients need bladder tests
CMS want PEB to do them.
PEB want to do them, but don't have LCD inclusion
They can't be deferred (patient safety) PEB don't want another supplier to do them, so they do the tests.
PEB issues an invoice for the tests done but know they won't get paid until their LCD inclusion is obtained.
So issues are - will they get LCD inclusion? and, will they be paid for the tests done prior to receiving it?


Nigelk,

If you require a better understanding of the reimbursement situation look at MDX health, I spent near on a full week researching this to understand the reimbursement process and have previously posted links showing this. The goal posts are always changing in this industry and it is very high risk. PEB are so close, might be time for DD to buy a few on market.

[Snow Leopard]

...
The good news is, PEB are one announcement away from being cashflow positive.

...and have been for many years now and possibly for many years to come. :t_up: Yep!

Even if these 17k tests do eventually get paid out it is the ability to generate excess cash on the day to day operations that would make this company viable.

[blackcap]

Wow, do you think FDA approval would be any easier?

Look at CUV, I think its been circa 10 years and two different brand names and they are now just getting FDA approval, Hopefully anyway. Otherwise the 400% i am up will get smashed.


The goal posts are always changing,

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/vitro-diagnostics/laboratory-developed-tests


The good news is, PEB are one announcement away from being cashflow positive.

How does getting money for 17k tests make them cashflow positive? lets say $500 per test by my calcs that is $8,500,000. So would still be operating at a loss.

[Carpenterjoe]

...and have been for many years now and possibly for many years to come. :t_up: Yep!

Even if these 17k tests do eventually get paid out it is the ability to generate excess cash on the day to day operations that would make this company viable.


The "pay out" isn't the important step, the "pay out" will be less than it should, circa half at a guess. But the reimbursement process will be open and ready to go.
10000 to 20000 tests at circa 1040 NZD per test.

Wait till guidelines catch up and those announcements will be profit in bags.

Will PEB need more money. Yes. In what form it comes in, I have no idea.

[Carpenterjoe]

How does getting money for 17k tests make them cashflow positive? lets say $500 per test by my calcs that is $8,500,000. So would still be operating at a loss.

Reimbursement rate is circa 1040 NZD per test, current market in only three countries is 15697 tests = $16,000,000 sales. chuck in some overdue reimbursement and the sentiment could be very different. Yes reimbursement rates are different in different countries. I am talking very roughly and with a glass half full.




Total laboratory throughput (which includes commercial sales as well as


tests from User Programmes) grew to 15,697 tests in FY19, a 9% increase on


FY18.

[kiwidollabill]

Wow, do you think FDA approval would be any easier?

Look at CUV, I think its been circa 10 years and two different brand names and they are now just getting FDA approval, Hopefully anyway. Otherwise the 400% i am up will get smashed.


The goal posts are always changing,

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/vitro-diagnostics/laboratory-developed-tests


The good news is, PEB are one announcement away from being cashflow positive.

The easy short term choice is rarely the best long term one.

Look at what the real players do to make $
https://diagnostics.roche.com/global/en/news-listing/2015/roche-receives-fda-approval-for-cobas-kras-mutation-test.html

Lots of bankrupted companies were "one announcement away from being cashflow positive"

[Balance]

The easy short term choice is rarely the best long term one.

Look at what the real players do to make $
https://diagnostics.roche.com/global/en/news-listing/2015/roche-receives-fda-approval-for-cobas-kras-mutation-test.html

Lots of bankrupted companies were "one announcement away from being cashflow positive"

This is where one has to grudgingly acknowledge the ability of DD & PEB to spin out the story from one capital raising to another.

[Carpenterjoe]

The easy short term choice is rarely the best long term one.

Look at what the real players do to make $
https://diagnostics.roche.com/global/en/news-listing/2015/roche-receives-fda-approval-for-cobas-kras-mutation-test.html

Lots of bankrupted companies were "one announcement away from being cashflow positive"

Thanks will do,

Seems it relies on a Cobas amplification system and the system is rather large and at 50k+ a machine,

Out of interest do you need an invasive tumor sample to run the test?

Do you know how long is took Roche to research and gain approval for both technologies?

At first glance this is a targeted system that is used to decide what drugs to use to save someone from metastatic colorectal cancer, it is not a front line diagnostic test

At first glace this seems like comparing an apple with a brick.
This example is why the likes of PEB and MDX need to succeed.

Yes the big players have deep pockets are able to force decision making at all levels.

Happy Fridays

[kiwidollabill]

Thanks will do,

Seems it relies on a Cobas amplification system and the system is rather large and at 50k+ a machine,

Out of interest do you need an invasive tumor sample to run the test?

Do you know how long is took Roche to research and gain approval for both technologies?

At first glance this is a targeted system that is used to decide what drugs to use to save someone from metastatic colorectal cancer, it is not a front line diagnostic test

At first glace this seems like comparing an apple with a brick.
This example is why the likes of PEB and MDX need to succeed.

Yes the big players have deep pockets are able to force decision making at all levels.

Happy Fridays

Do you realise that CXbladder is run on Roche Lightcyclers which are basically the non-FDA version of the Cobas.....????

I'll just leave the rest, its best not to make assessments on 'at first glance....'