PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[Carpenterjoe]

Do you realise that CXbladder is run on Roche Lightcyclers which are basically the non-FDA version of the Cobas.....????

I'll just leave the rest, its best not to make assessments on 'at first glance....'

Ok then, Thanks tho, i didn't.

Ill leave this discussion alone,

[Balance]

Check this out :

Director, Market Access and Reimbursement
Pacific Edge Diagnostics USA Ltd.
Hershey, PA

Responsible for the development and implementation of all market access strategies to secure and maintain access, coverage and reimbursement for all Pacific Edge Diagnostics products within the U.S.

• Developed and implemented all payer coverage strategies for Medicare, and Commercial payers which resulted in positive reimbursement for CxBladder.
• Collaborated with CMS to ensure appropriate implementation of access and pricing strategy regarding the new CMS proposed rule.
• Developed and submitted Federal Supply Schedule packet to secure access to CxBladder in VA/DOD as well as appropriate government pricing.
• Created and implemented field reimbursement strategies to support providers and internal stakeholders by removing reimbursement barriers and creating access to CxBladder.
• Collaborated with a cross-functional team of marketing, sales and medical affairs leaders to develop and implement tools to support commercial payers, Medicare, Medicaid and CMS, reimbursement initiatives.
• Effectively solicited, cultivated and established Key Opinion Leaders and CAC members, both regionally and nationally to support payer and reimbursement initiatives.
• Responsible for the over sight and implementation of pricing and contracting strategy for all key customer segments which resulted in increase access and reimbursement for CxBladder
.
• Developed clinical payer scientific dossier to support coverage of CxBladder.
• Successfully developed and submitted to Medicare MAC the clinical value proposition, validation, and utility dossier for LCD reconsideration coverage inclusion of CxBladder.
• Developed and Implemented the Pacific Edge Patient Financial Assistance Program to ensure financial access to Cxbladder



[Nigelk]

How does getting money for 17k tests make them cashflow positive? lets say $500 per test by my calcs that is $8,500,000. So would still be operating at a loss.

The reimbursement rate was agreed last October at USD$760 per test

[Nigelk]

Check this out :

Director, Market Access and Reimbursement
Pacific Edge Diagnostics USA Ltd.
Hershey, PA

Responsible for the development and implementation of all market access strategies to secure and maintain access, coverage and reimbursement for all Pacific Edge Diagnostics products within the U.S.

• Developed and implemented all payer coverage strategies for Medicare, and Commercial payers which resulted in positive reimbursement for CxBladder.
• Collaborated with CMS to ensure appropriate implementation of access and pricing strategy regarding the new CMS proposed rule.
• Developed and submitted Federal Supply Schedule packet to secure access to CxBladder in VA/DOD as well as appropriate government pricing.
• Created and implemented field reimbursement strategies to support providers and internal stakeholders by removing reimbursement barriers and creating access to CxBladder.
• Collaborated with a cross-functional team of marketing, sales and medical affairs leaders to develop and implement tools to support commercial payers, Medicare, Medicaid and CMS, reimbursement initiatives.
• Effectively solicited, cultivated and established Key Opinion Leaders and CAC members, both regionally and nationally to support payer and reimbursement initiatives.
• Responsible for the over sight and implementation of pricing and contracting strategy for all key customer segments which resulted in increase access and reimbursement for CxBladder
.
• Developed clinical payer scientific dossier to support coverage of CxBladder.
• Successfully developed and submitted to Medicare MAC the clinical value proposition, validation, and utility dossier for LCD reconsideration coverage inclusion of CxBladder.
• Developed and Implemented the Pacific Edge Patient Financial Assistance Program to ensure financial access to Cxbladder




He left the job 4 years ago

[Balance]

He left the job 4 years ago

Precisely!

Note the "Successfully developed and submitted to Medicare MAC the clinical value proposition, validation, and utility dossier for LCD reconsideration coverage inclusion of CxBladder."

Looks to me like PEB was rejected for LCD consideration 5 years ago! Was never mentioned once by DD or the company - it was all rah rah rah go go go, remember?

[Minerbarejet]

"Iterative" was the key word from past company advice.

[Balance]

"Iterative" was the key word from past company advice.

Yup - that's PEB, same repetitive story just as this NBR headline :

https://www.nbr.co.nz/analysis/pacific-edge-permanently-cusp-success-or-oblivion

[Drew95]

Clinical study supports adoption of Cxbladder24/6/2019, 12:26 pm GENERALCLINICAL STUDY SUPPORTS ADOPTION OF CXBLADDER INTO NEW CLINCAL PATHWAY
Canterbury DHB publishes real-world clinical study with cementing evidence supporting the adoption of Cxbladder into the new clinical pathway

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/336487

[Ggcc]

Clinical study supports adoption of Cxbladder24/6/2019, 12:26 pm GENERALCLINICAL STUDY SUPPORTS ADOPTION OF CXBLADDER INTO NEW CLINCAL PATHWAY
Canterbury DHB publishes real-world clinical study with cementing evidence supporting the adoption of Cxbladder into the new clinical pathway

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/336487
Great show me money and please don’t ask for anymore the dilution is killing shareholders wealth

[Minerbarejet]

Yup - that's PEB, same repetitive story just as this NBR headline :

https://www.nbr.co.nz/analysis/pacific-edge-permanently-cusp-success-or-oblivion


Why do you think they called it Pacific Edge?

[Sideshow Bob]

If PEB were really that ****-hot, surely a big fish after all these years would have come down to NZ, paid say $150m for them ($112m market cap today), taken them out and then rammed through all the approvals and various hoops to jump through. Big companies have experts in those areas.

While I don't necessarily doubt the science, surely it must start to get a little old and get superseded after this many years??

2 ponderings on a Monday arvo…….

[Balance]

If PEB were really that ****-hot, surely a big fish after all these years would have come down to NZ, paid say $150m for them ($112m market cap today), taken them out and then rammed through all the approvals and various hoops to jump through. Big companies have experts in those areas.

While I don't necessarily doubt the science, surely it must start to get a little old and get superseded after this many years??

2 ponderings on a Monday arvo…….

You obviously have not talked to DD.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-will-be-juicy-nugget-purchase-david-darling-cs-p-161995

Any day now.

[Sideshow Bob]

You obviously have not talked to DD.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-will-be-juicy-nugget-purchase-david-darling-cs-p-161995

Any day now.

What year was that from?? Or is that an annual plea to get taken over??

[Balance]

What year was that from?? Or is that an annual plea to get taken over??

Haha - 4 years ago.:p

[Minerbarejet]

If PEB were really that ****-hot, surely a big fish after all these years would have come down to NZ, paid say $150m for them ($112m market cap today), taken them out and then rammed through all the approvals and various hoops to jump through. Big companies have experts in those areas.

While I don't necessarily doubt the science, surely it must start to get a little old and get superseded after this many years??

2 ponderings on a Monday arvo…….

Slowly, bit by bit, the various pieces of the puzzle are coming together.

How many big fish do you see out there trying to and succeeding in changing CLINICAL PATHWAYS?

[kiwidollabill]

Slowly, bit by bit, the various pieces of the puzzle are coming together.

How many big fish do you see out there trying to and succeeding in changing CLINICAL PATHWAYS?

I'm sure they have popped up on the M&A radar for a number of the bigger players. Likely they did the assessment and judged it overvalued, the market too small or with too low a ROI. Maybe one of them is waiting for either a liquidation and buying the scraps (patents/IP) or for them to actually make it and then buy.

And plenty are out there doing it... Few years ago BD wiped the slate clean of almost all chemical ID testing in microbiology (100+ years of use) with the introduction of the biotyper

[kiwidollabill]

And another point.... the NZ diagnostics community is very open to novel technologies, there are methodologies being run here which are years ahead of the USA due to the FDA licensing requirements. Makes it more surprising why they didnt pick up PEB earlier....

[Balance]

Slowly, bit by bit, the various pieces of the puzzle are coming together.

How many big fish do you see out there trying to and succeeding in changing CLINICAL PATHWAYS?

As kiwidollabill pointed out, plenty are doing it - it's the 'frog in the well' mentality which has some Kiwis thinking that PEB is the only one doing it!

But let's not take away PEB's 'achievement' that it is certainly a step forward and the market would have sent PEB's sp up 33% once upon a time BUT for the fact that PEB now has bugger all credibility left with investors.

Hardly surprising when you consider all the strategic bumbling, unforgettable misinformation and purposefully lack of information by the company when they hit roadblocks or are unsuccessful.

[Minerbarejet]

As kiwidollabill pointed out, plenty are doing it - it's the 'frog in the well' mentality which has some Kiwis thinking that PEB is the only one doing it!

But let's not take away PEB's 'achievement' that it is certainly a step forward and the market would have sent PEB's sp up 33% once upon a time BUT for the fact that PEB now has bugger all credibility left with investors.

Hardly surprising when you consider all the strategic bumbling and unforgettable misinformation & lack of information by the company.

Ribit

Thanks for that.
I will remember that when Kaiser publish their results in a major journal.

[Balance]

Ribit

Thanks for that.
I will remember that when Kaiser publish their results in a major journal.

Same Kaiser that PEB was waxing lyrical about as being the game changing transformative customer - until it all went quiet last year and flat like Jacinda's Kiwibuild?:p

Excerpt from Sep 2016 annual report :

"However, we are well advanced in our commercial progress with these organisations,
having signed the Federal Supply Schedule and entered into contract with the VA, entered into contract with TRICARE
and successfully completed the Kaiser Permanente User Programme. While this has taken longer than we originally anticipated
, each one of these could result in a quantum leap in sales revenue as we bring them on board as commercial customers.”

The quantum leap turned out to be a leap back into the abyss however - fictitious sales booked into ever increasing accounts receivables wrote off!

[Minerbarejet]

Same Kaiser that PEB was waxing lyrical about as being the game changing transformative customer - until it all went quiet last year and flat like Jacinda's Kiwibuild?:p

Excerpt from Sep 2016 report :

"However, we are well advanced in our commercial progress with these organisations,
having signed the Federal Supply Schedule and entered into contract with the VA, entered into contract with TRICARE
and successfully completed the Kaiser Permanente User Programme. While this has taken longer than we originally anticipated
, each one of these could result in a quantum leap in sales revenue as we bring them on board as commercial customers.”

The quantum leap turned out to be a leap back into the abyss - fictitious sales wrote off!

That just shows you how long it takes from getting a programme completed to getting it published, along with 2001 other contenders all trying to get their results published on 2001 other items.
And that is just page 1.
And published/peer reviewed it must be to be considered by others as qualifying for consideration.

Possibly the great numbers of researchers and programmes needing validation by publication that have proliferated over recent years would account for the delay as they are all trying to get in the door at once.

Bit like ex PEB shareholders when the time comes.

[Balance]

That just shows you how long it takes from getting a programme completed to getting it published, along with 2001 other contenders all trying to get their results published on 2001 other items.
And that is just page 1.
And published/peer reviewed it must be to be considered by others as qualifying for consideration.

Possibly the great numbers of researchers and programmes needing validation by publication that have proliferated over recent years would account for the delay as they are all trying to get in the door at once.

Bit like ex PEB shareholders when the time comes.

Delays indeed but actually, only for PEB with its bumbling management & directors.

Bunch of highly paid clowns running the company like a circus with an ever diminishing audience (shareholders) who are sick and fed up to the back teeth watching the same chimp juggling tricks of getting the audience to suck ever bigger lemons (capital raisings). :p

[Minerbarejet]

WOW
And I dont mean World of Warcraft.

[RGR367]

Delays indeed but actually, only for PEB with its bumbling management & directors.

Bunch of highly paid clowns running the company like a circus with ever diminishing audience (shareholders) who are sick and fed up to the back teeth watching the same red-arsed monkey tricks of sucking lemons. :p

By golly, you're really back and on to PEB with gusto. Good on you Balance :cool:

[Carpenterjoe]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5033563/

This link might help investors understand the differences between FDA and LDT. And vast benefits to LDT.

[Balance]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5033563/

This link might help investors understand the differences between FDA and LDT. And vast benefits to LDT.

Useful article which glaringly shows that PEB chose the wrong path, and has no basic understanding of how the medical industry works in the States :

Excerpt from article :

"While CMS is in the best position to address these gaps using the existing CLIA framework, it has shown a reluctance to do so and the FDA has stepped in. Nonetheless, it is hard to believe that the tools available to the FDA are a better fit for the task. While the FDA's goals are admirable in trying to bring regulatory coherence to the genetic testing industry, the FDA is imposing an undue regulatory burden that will change the industry in a way that harms providers and patients while not addressing the greatest problems."

Note that the article was published in 2015 !!!!! Plenty of notice to PEB that they must go the FDA way but what did the clowns do?

PEB sought to circumvent the FDA and has paid the price. Or rather, the audience (shareholder) has been sucking lemons and paying the price.

It's only been in recent months that we have seen only two directors put in some of their own money!!!!!!!

[Minerbarejet]

Useful article which glaringly shows that PEB chose the wrong path, and has no basic understanding of how the medical industry works in the States :

Excerpt from article :

"While CMS is in the best position to address these gaps using the existing CLIA framework, it has shown a reluctance to do so and the FDA has stepped in. Nonetheless, it is hard to believe that the tools available to the FDA are a better fit for the task. While the FDA's goals are admirable in trying to bring regulatory coherence to the genetic testing industry, the FDA is imposing an undue regulatory burden that will change the industry in a way that harms providers and patients while not addressing the greatest problems."

Note that the article was published in 2015 !!!!! Plenty of notice to PEB that they must go the FDA way but what did the clowns do?

PEB sought to circumvent the FDA and has paid the price. Or rather, the audience (shareholder) has been sucking lemons and paying the price.

It's only been in recent months that we have seen only two directors put in some of their own money!!!!!!!
I would be hard pressed to call the CMS approval of a CLIA laboratory for the purposes of processing US based Triage outside of their home country as "showing reluctance."
The FDA would still be stuffing around with stage one because any slight alteration ie same test, different algorithm would require a complete restart.

[bottomfeeder]

PEB took too long from the time their test was proven to getting to a broad market. In that time competing companies and new innovations have superceded their product. Doctors being doctors also, just cant help themselves by investing any surplus cash in further R and D. So PEB will never reap any rewards. Shareholders are really just using their funds for the good of mankind.

[Carpenterjoe]

PEB took too long from the time their test was proven to getting to a broad market. In that time competing companies and new innovations have superceded their product. Doctors being doctors also, just cant help themselves by investing any surplus cash in further R and D. So PEB will never reap any rewards. Shareholders are really just using their funds for the good of mankind.

bottomfeeder, please provide some evidence of another company that has 4 diagnostic tests specializing in BC. Or could you please enlighten me of these products that have superseded our product?

[Balance]

bottomfeeder, please provide some evidence of another company that has 4 diagnostic tests specializing in BC. Or could you please enlighten me of these products that have superseded our product?

Interesting!

[bottomfeeder]

Yes interesting, you sound like you are connected with the company that has frittered away investors funds, with only promises of future profits. No doubt cxbladder works, and I am not rubbishing your product, but Array Genomics may differ on that in any case. But we are looking at the business model here, it stands to reason any innovative product developed must get to market in the shortest time possible. If anyone thinks that PEB, is the only diagnostics company working on tools and tests, in a country of 4.5 mill , compared to a planet of many billions, would have to be fooling themselves. Cxbladder is not a cure, and of course no has said that, but lets not overrate the future potential of the company.
It stands to reason that techology moves in leaps and bounds. PEB needs to move fast.
The dollars dont lie. Original investors in this company have lost a lot of money, let alone those that bought in at the inflated prices, following hyped up announcements by the company, with little to show from them. I remember one year there was a terrific increase in sales percentage announced, to reach some 3 million, on the back of a l9ss of 21 million. (Or figures around that arena) soooo disappointing.

[bottomfeeder]

Carpenter Joe, if you are employed by PEB in any way, I believe you should disclose this, rather than hype up the stock.

[Minerbarejet]

Its obvious that Carpenter Joe takes some pride in ownership of PEB Shares, as I and others do in our company.

[bottomfeeder]

Aha someone to complain to. Carpenter joe, in December 2015, I had and sold my 40,00 shares in PEB. If I had held onto them, as many did, I would have lost over a half of my money and no dividends. Is that a good business model, what do you thing the shares are worth now, aside that quoted on the NZX.

[bottomfeeder]

Pride of ownership is all that comes with this company.

[Carpenterjoe]

Yes interesting, you sound like you are connected with the company that has frittered away investors funds, with only promises of future profits. No doubt cxbladder works, and I am not rubbishing your product, but Array Genomics may differ on that in any case. But we are looking at the business model here, it stands to reason any innovative product developed must get to market in the shortest time possible. If anyone thinks that PEB, is the only diagnostics company working on tools and tests, in a country of 4.5 mill , compared to a planet of many billions, would have to be fooling themselves. Cxbladder is not a cure, and of course no has said that, but lets not overrate the future potential of the company.
It stands to reason that techology moves in leaps and bounds. PEB needs to move fast.
The dollars dont lie. Original investors in this company have lost a lot of money, let alone those that bought in at the inflated prices, following hyped up announcements by the company, with little to show from them. I remember one year there was a terrific increase in sales percentage announced, to reach some 3 million, on the back of a l9ss of 21 million. (Or figures around that arena) soooo disappointing.


Thanks BF,

Yes, some investors are still investing. Some have even traded and have a free holding. Most will simply re-balance and write losses off if this flops.

For about the tenth time, I am only a shareholder. I have never worked for PEB.

If my numbers are correct Array has only had about 330 studied test samples across 5 years. They have a long way to go before they will be taken seriously. I do note they have a paper based on 500 samples due soon. As i have also stated, competition is a good thing when changing old habits.

I am always interested in the competition and have yet to find a company that is anywhere near PEB level. I might have in-counted Five that are just starting to produce good results.

Unfortunately with medicine, change takes time. It's unfortunate USA insurance companies are demanding FDA approval before payouts and are not embracing their ability to save money and improve patients outcome with this technology. This will change when guidelines and pathways catch up and insurance company have no excuse.


Each to their own, I do not care if people invest in this company, it is in the hands of the big guys, I hope the big money continue to support this technology.

[Dentie]

Bottomfeeder....PEB is (& was) a start up Biotech company trying to get brand new ground breaking products into the market (& especially back in December 2015). If you were invested back then (and even now!) with the expectation of receiving dividends...then maybe you were invested in the wrong sort of business.

One invests (or should do) in this type of business with the full knowledge that one could lose one's dosh. Of course, that risk is offset by the chance of making a lot of money when they finally do succeed.

[Carpenterjoe]

Aha someone to complain to. Carpenter joe, in December 2015, I had and sold my 40,00 shares in PEB. If I had held onto them, as many did, I would have lost over a half of my money and no dividends. Is that a good business model, what do you thing the shares are worth now, aside that quoted on the NZX.

Its called investing, some investments take time to pay off and are high risk. I would also suggest those putting money into companies for dividends are not really investing. We all have different ways we make money, not all methods appeal to others.

[Balance]

Its called investing, some investments take time to pay off and are high risk. I would also suggest those putting money into companies for dividends are not really investing. We all have different ways we make money, not all methods appeal to others.

Yup - it is called investing, and when a company like PEB takes so much money from investors and the market using

plenty of hype and promises,

plus fictitious sales

- then there must be accountability by the directors and management to update and brief the market and shareholders honestly, frankly and properly.

Where is the accountability?

[percy]

Its called investing, some investments take time to pay off and are high risk. I would also suggest those putting money into companies for dividends are not really investing. We all have different ways we make money, not all methods appeal to others.

"An INVESTMENT is an asset or item acquired with the goal of generating income or appreciation."
"In an economic sense,an INVESTMENT is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth."
Therefore PEB being a destructor of wealth, should never be called an INVESTMENT.
Perhaps if they were registered as a charity, your foolish contributions would be tax deductible.
As that is not the case, your money is being thrown away,by backing people who have a record of failure.

[Carpenterjoe]

"An INVESTMENT is an asset or item acquired with the goal of generating income or appreciation."
"In an economic sense,an INVESTMENT is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth."
Therefore PEB being a destructor of wealth, should never be called an INVESTMENT.
Perhaps if they were registered as a charity, your foolish contributions would be tax deductible.
As that is not the case, your money is being thrown away,by backing people who have a record of failure.

Only time will tell.

And my contribution or "losses" will be tax deductible. Because I am subject to Capital Gains.

[blackcap]

Only time will tell.

And my contribution or "losses" will be tax deductible. Because I am subject to Capital Gains.

O so you are not a NZ resident for tax purposes?

[davflaws]

Carpenter Joe, if you are employed by PEB in any way, I believe you should disclose this, rather than hype up the stock.
I don't think he was hyping the stock. You claimed the product had been superseded, he asked you for evidence, and instead of providing it, you fudged and then attacked him.

[Carpenterjoe]

O so you are not a NZ resident for tax purposes?

That's right.

Even if I was based in NZ I would pay CGT as well, I think. I enter and exit positions too often to be judge CGT free.
Let us not go down that road on the PEB thread.

[blackcap]

That's right.

Even if I was based in NZ I would pay CGT as well, I think. I enter and exit positions too often to be judge CGT free.
Let us not go down that road on the PEB thread.

In NZ no one pays Capital Gains tax. If you enter and exit positions frequently you are taxed on "trading profits". Nothing to do with capital gains. NZ does not have a capital gains regime.

[Carpenterjoe]

In NZ no one pays Capital Gains tax. If you enter and exit positions frequently you are taxed on "trading profits". Nothing to do with capital gains. NZ does not have a capital gains regime.

You are right,
Sorry about the mistake in my accounting terminology.

[Balance]

Each to their own, I do not care if people invest in this company, it is in the hands of the big guys, I hope the big money continue to support this technology.

The instos/people stop investing and PEB is history.

Running out of cash and running out of time.

[Ggcc]

No one has given commentary on their wonderful report. Lots of big words and exciting stuff, just no real increase in turnover............ Yet as mentioned by many positive posters including myself when I had rose tinted glasses on ( for years )

[Sideshow Bob]

No one has given commentary on their wonderful report. Lots of big words and exciting stuff, just no real increase in turnover............ Yet as mentioned by many positive posters.

Big words and exciting stuff is what matters! Plus throw in a few glossy pics!

Increasing turnover......blauuggghhh, who cares for that!

[Nigelk]

I see PEB and my few other biotechs (all on the ASX) as speculation, not investing.
At circa 3% of my portfolio that's OK.
They will never have traditional growth curves.
The process is always (at least) twice as long and twice as expensive to get FDA approval (or similar, as in this case ), or commercialisation as you'd expect, even based on the most conservative estimates.
If PEB completes LCD inclusion and gets full reimbursement for CMS tests done to date, and does a similar amount of CMS tests per year @ USD$760 x 15K = NZD $17M and have a similar amount of business in NZ and other markets per year as they do currently, they'll grow revenue by circa 8X.
So imagine what the SP would be with that revenue, plus the future potential?
Investing in PEB is easy.
Either (a) put in a sum you're willing to risk, forget about it and hope it becomes your winning Lotto ticket eventually.
Or (b) say you don't accept the risk of this type of firm, so don't invest.
Or (c) invest, then get angry and anxious like most disappointed investors here.
There are two good options.....

[Ggcc]

I see PEB and my few other biotechs (all on the ASX) as speculation, not investing.
At circa 3% of my portfolio that's OK.
They will never have traditional growth curves.
The process is always (at least) twice as long and twice as expensive to get FDA approval (or similar, as in this case ), or commercialisation as you'd expect, even based on the most conservative estimates.
If PEB completes LCD inclusion and gets full reimbursement for CMS tests done to date, and does a similar amount of CMS tests per year @ USD$760 x 15K = NZD $17M and have a similar amount of business in NZ and other markets per year as they do currently, they'll grow revenue by circa 8X.
So imagine what the SP would be with that revenue, plus the future potential?
Investing in PEB is easy.
Either (a) put in a sum you're willing to risk, forget about it and hope it becomes your winning Lotto ticket eventually.
Or (b) say you don't accept the risk of this type of firm, so don't invest.
Or (c) invest, then get angry and anxious like most disappointed investors here.
There are two good options.....
Comparing it to lotto is as close as you will get I believe

[Minerbarejet]

Does anyone out there have any idea what this company would be worth if they managed to convince:

1 person in a hundred in the United States

of the 800,000 who are being monitored for recurrence of bladder cancer

have had surgery and after two clear rounds of monitoring cystoscopy that a CXBladder Monitor test would be a heck of a lot more comfortable, time saving, cheaper, just as reliable and could be used over the following 4 years of monitoring as set out in clinical guidelines?

1 person in a hundred

Raises the question: "What are the other 99 going to do???"

Be uncomfortable, waste time and cost more. A lot more.

Also raises another question: "What is that 1 person in 100 going to do?"

Going to tell others with the same problem and with the internet it could spread very rapidly.

And what are the other 99 going to do when they find out??

[Balance]

Comparing it to lotto is as close as you will get I believe

That's an insult to lotto.

Lotto is totally transparent, punters are kept fully informed and surplus funds are 'donated' to worthy causes.

[Minerbarejet]

And that is an insult to PEB that is trying to provide better outcomes for people with serious cancer based problems rather than being a vehicle for removing prepaid welfare funds from the gullible and back into the Govt coffers.

For goodness sake, Balance, keep up.
We are nearly there.
Just a few more million should do it.:)

[Balance]

And that is an insult to PEB that is trying to provide better outcomes for people with serious cancer based problems rather than being a vehicle for removing prepaid welfare funds from the gullible and back into the Govt coffers.




Investing in PEB is easy.
Either (a) put in a sum you're willing to risk, forget about it and hope it becomes your winning Lotto ticket eventually.
Or (b) say you don't accept the risk of this type of firm, so don't invest.
Or (c) invest, then get angry and anxious like most disappointed investors here.
There are two good options.....


Suggest you take up the lotto analogy with your fellow PEB investor, Nigelk.

Some of us are too busy making $$$$ with Serko, ATM etc to play with lotto-type stocks!

[BigBob]

Suggest you take up the lotto analogy with your fellow PEB investor, Nigelk.

Some of us are too busy making $$$$ with Serko, ATM etc to play with lotto-type stocks!

I haven't followed SKO for vey long so can't comment, but I think it is fair to say that ATM was a lotto-type stock not that many years ago... and that some clearly picked the right numbers back then... 🙂

[Balance]

I haven't followed SKO for vey long so can't comment, but I think it is fair to say that ATM was a lotto-type stock not that many years ago... and that some clearly picked the right numbers back then... ��

Suggest you read up carefully and diligently on ATM and I think you will find a gulf of difference between PEB & ATM in how directors & management keep the market and shareholders informed and up to date.

As I have written, Lotto is totally transparent while PEB has been ????

Tens of thousands of tests, fictitious sales, user programs mysteriously going nowhere after being hyped up etc etc etc.

[BigBob]

Suggest you read up carefully and diligently on ATM and I think you will find a gulf of difference between PEB & ATM in how directors & management keep the market and shareholders informed and up to date.

As I have written, Lotto is totally transparent while PEB has been ????

Tens of thousands of tests, fictitious sales, user programs mysteriously going nowhere after being hyped up etc etc etc.

I was not referring to your continuous blatherings about PEB, nor to ATM's quality of directors and management, but rather to Nigelk's comment about a lotto stock being a stock you "put in a sum you're willing to risk, forget about it and hope it becomes your winning Lotto ticket eventually"...

But I suppose you knew that, but just couldn't help yourself having yet another dig... 😉

[Dentie]

Balance ... firstly, I'm surprised you are still out there trying to make money and, secondly, if I'm wrong and you've already made it then I wish you would put some of it where your mouth is and sue the Directors of PEB for (in your view) being dishonest and misleading etc. Just think, if the Court agrees with you, you could hold them personally accountable.

I'm just sick of the broken record.

[Ggcc]

Balance ... firstly, I'm surprised you are still out there trying to make money and, secondly, if I'm wrong and you've already made it then I wish you would put some of it where your mouth is and sue the Directors of PEB for (in your view) being dishonest and misleading etc. Just think, if the Court agrees with you, you could hold them personally accountable.

I'm just sick of the broken record.
Did nothing for the directors at Wynyard, so it might be money lost as well. It is best not to throw good money after bad money

[Minerbarejet]

What makes you think that Lotto is so transparent?

There is no idea of what the outcome will be for your ticket and disappointment usually follows twice a week for those involved whereas PEB at least only disappoints twice a year and at least has some indication for the future.:)

I see a massive change of tune around here on any one of three things.

CMS
In the last stages of LCD determination

Kaiser
To publish in a prestigious journal the results of its trials and possibly what steps they will take.

Johns Hopkins
To complete its Commercial assessment of CxBladder and advise accordingly.

Meanwhile we are at the mercy of these organisations and their "ball of tar" processes.

Blaming an enthusiastic DD et al for something beyond their control is an ill-considered approach, IMHO

[Cricketfan]

What makes you think that Lotto is so transparent?

There is no idea of what the outcome will be for your ticket and disappointment usually follows twice a week for those involved whereas PEB at least only disappoints twice a year and at least has some indication for the future.:)



Not true. You know exactly what your odds are of winning Lotto, and you can calculate your expected loss using probability theory. If you've done the maths, you should expect to lose overall, and if you actually win, it's a bonus.

[Dentie]

Did nothing for the directors at Wynyard, so it might be money lost as well. It is best not to throw good money after bad money

Then in that case why keep crusading on a dead horse....on some sort of personal odyssey. Even knights have to stop and take a breath or two sometimes...

[Balance]

Not true. You know exactly what your odds are of winning Lotto, and you can calculate your expected loss using probability theory. If you've done the maths, you should expect to lose overall, and if you actually win, it's a bonus.

Plus, the lotto pool keeps jack potting until such time as the pool is paid out - there will always be winners.

[Ggcc]

Then in that case why keep crusading on a dead horse....on some sort of personal odyssey. Even knights have to stop and take a breath or two sometimes...
I guess Balance just wants to make you aware that the track record of this company needing investor funds. Now if this company was a growth company you could understand the need for money.... But is PEB a growth company? How much money have they needed so far, for the turnover they are generating? If they make a profit when will that be? I was once in your shoes until I saw the light and sold my shares in PEB, at a higher price than it is at now, but at a loss. I thank balances input into making me see clearly

[Balance]

What makes you think that Lotto is so transparent?

There is no idea of what the outcome will be for your ticket and disappointment usually follows twice a week for those involved whereas PEB at least only disappoints twice a year and at least has some indication for the future.:)

I see a massive change of tune around here on any one of three things.

CMS
In the last stages of LCD determination

Kaiser
To publish in a prestigious journal the results of its trials and possibly what steps they will take.

Johns Hopkins
To complete its Commercial assessment of CxBladder and advise accordingly.

Meanwhile we are at the mercy of these organisations and their "ball of tar" processes.

Blaming an enthusiastic DD et al for something beyond their control is an ill-considered approach, IMHO

Enthusiastic? Bumbling incompetent clown more like!

Beyond their control? Spending tens of millions of dollars year after year with the wrong commercialization strategy is entirely within their control.

One thing I will agree with you however (based upon feedback from my biomed contact in Florida) - PEB will get the LCD inclusion but in my contact's exact words - 'don't expect them to do it in a hurry. You cannot rush them. They will take their own sweet time.'

[Balance]

I guess Balance just wants to make you aware that the track record of this company needing investor funds. Now if this company was a growth company you could understand the need for money.... But is PEB a growth company? How much money have they needed so far, for the turnover they are generating? If they make a profit when will that be? I was once in your shoes until I saw the light and sold my shares in PEB, at a higher price than it is at now, but at a loss. I thank balances input into making me see clearly

Never fall in love with a stock - it clouds one’s judgement.

Also, never get so negative on a stock that it also clouds one’s judgement.

You have done what most prudent investors have done - review the track record of a company (in this case, PEB) and cut your losses before the losses become even bigger.

Now, keep an eye on things - there are trigger points you need to set and be ready to be objective.

[Minerbarejet]

Amazing.
Am I detect ing a change of heart and a shifting of the balance so to speak.
Crikey, I actually got him to agree to something.

Open that Champers up, Mum

[Balance]

Amazing.
Am I detect ing a change of heart and a shifting of the balance so to speak.
Crikey, I actually got him to agree to something.

Open that Champers up, Mum

I received feedback from my contact in Florida re LCD inclusion and I make my observation accordingly.

Simple as that.

[davflaws]

I received feedback from my contact in Florida re LCD inclusion and I make my observation accordingly.

Simple as that.

Thank you for that simple and informative answer. I think that is good news.

[Nigelk]

Suggest you take up the lotto analogy with your fellow PEB investor, Nigelk.

Some of us are too busy making $$$$ with Serko, ATM etc to play with lotto-type stocks!

I'm having a great run with PLX, ATM, PPH and others too. As stated, bio/ Pharma is 3% of my holdings and PEB less than 1/3 of that. I only invested recently so am only slightly out of the money and like having my "Lotto ticket" in the bottom drawer

[Balance]

I'm having a great run with PLX, ATM, PPH and others too. As stated, bio/ Pharma is 3% of my holdings and PEB less than 1/3 of that. I only invested recently so am only slightly out of the money and like having my "Lotto ticket" in the bottom drawer

Good on you, Nigelk and you obviously treat your investment in PEB as you would putting money into Lotto - which is fine.

But I suggest you need to stay clear of your comments about Or (c) invest, then get angry and anxious like most disappointed investors here.

Many of the posters here are angry because PEB has been extremely frugal with delivering on the hype, promises, undertakings and deadlines used in enticing them into funding 5 long years of huge salaries and benefits for the directors and executives.

Follow this thread and read for yourself how deceptive and misleading PEB has been with their information flow.

[Sideshow Bob]

PEB was established in 2001, and listed February 2003.

Good things take time eh!

I'll just leave this here.....

10656

[Balance]

PEB was established in 2001, and listed February 2019.

Good things take time eh!

I'll just leave this here.....



Like Diligent, RBD amongst others, there could be a time to play the upside on PEB.

Substantial changes in shareholdings and management could be one of the trigger points.

Until then, lotto is a better bet.

[Minerbarejet]

Just to bring everyone up to date.
Exciting isnt it:)







Cxbladder included in the latest NCCN Bladder Cancer Guidelines in the USA
Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge (NZX: PEB), advises that Cxbladder has been included in the latest version of the National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) Guidelines for Bladder Cancer in the USA.

This is a significant achievement with the NCCN Guidelines widely recognised and used as the standard for clinical policy and practice in oncology by clinicians and payors in the USA.

The new guidelines update, which was issued on 10 July 2019, state that the evaluation of urinary urothelial tumor markers (Cxbladder by direct reference) may be considered during surveillance of high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer. The NCCN Bladder Cancer Panel considers this a category 2B recommendation, which means there is NCCN consensus that the use of Cxbladder as a clinical intervention is appropriate. This follows on from Cxbladder’s inclusion in clinical guidelines by several New Zealand public healthcare providers in the last year.

To be considered for review and inclusion in the NCCN guidelines requires an extensive portfolio of clinical evidence, a track record of clinical use, and broad adoption by physicians.

This is an important milestone for Pacific Edge’s commercial journey in the USA, says CEO, David Darling, and comes on the back of 10 years of successful clinical evidence and commercial development.

“Over the preceding years many of our customers in the USA have been hampered in their commercial use of Cxbladder while the Cxbladder technology has not been specifically included in the guideline recommendations. Inclusion in the NCCN Bladder Cancer guidelines is a major commercial milestone for the Company in the USA and will be of significant value as we progress our commercial discussions with our many urologist customers including the large healthcare organisations we are targeting.”

ENDS

For more information contact:

David Darling
Chief Executive Officer
Pacific Edge Ltd
P: +64 (3) 479 5800

[whatsup]

Just to bring everyone up to date.
Exciting isnt it:)







Cxbladder included in the latest NCCN Bladder Cancer Guidelines in the USA
Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge (NZX: PEB), advises that Cxbladder has been included in the latest version of the National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) Guidelines for Bladder Cancer in the USA.

This is a significant achievement with the NCCN Guidelines widely recognised and used as the standard for clinical policy and practice in oncology by clinicians and payors in the USA.

The new guidelines update, which was issued on 10 July 2019, state that the evaluation of urinary urothelial tumor markers (Cxbladder by direct reference) may be considered during surveillance of high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer. The NCCN Bladder Cancer Panel considers this a category 2B recommendation, which means there is NCCN consensus that the use of Cxbladder as a clinical intervention is appropriate. This follows on from Cxbladder’s inclusion in clinical guidelines by several New Zealand public healthcare providers in the last year.

To be considered for review and inclusion in the NCCN guidelines requires an extensive portfolio of clinical evidence, a track record of clinical use, and broad adoption by physicians.

This is an important milestone for Pacific Edge’s commercial journey in the USA, says CEO, David Darling, and comes on the back of 10 years of successful clinical evidence and commercial development.

“Over the preceding years many of our customers in the USA have been hampered in their commercial use of Cxbladder while the Cxbladder technology has not been specifically included in the guideline recommendations. Inclusion in the NCCN Bladder Cancer guidelines is a major commercial milestone for the Company in the USA and will be of significant value as we progress our commercial discussions with our many urologist customers including the large healthcare organisations we are targeting.”

ENDS

For more information contact:

David Darling
Chief Executive Officer
Pacific Edge Ltd
P: +64 (3) 479 5800











Can we start to trust DD just a wee wee bit with this ann ?

[pierre]

Just to bring everyone up to date.
Exciting isnt it:)







Cxbladder included in the latest NCCN Bladder Cancer Guidelines in the USA


Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge (NZX: PEB), advises that Cxbladder has been included in the latest version of the National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) Guidelines for Bladder Cancer in the USA.

This is a significant achievement with the NCCN Guidelines widely recognised and used as the standard for clinical policy and practice in oncology by clinicians and payors in the USA.

The new guidelines update, which was issued on 10 July 2019, state that the evaluation of urinary urothelial tumor markers (Cxbladder by direct reference) may be considered during surveillance of high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer. The NCCN Bladder Cancer Panel considers this a category 2B recommendation, which means there is NCCN consensus that the use of Cxbladder as a clinical intervention is appropriate. This follows on from Cxbladder’s inclusion in clinical guidelines by several New Zealand public healthcare providers in the last year.

To be considered for review and inclusion in the NCCN guidelines requires an extensive portfolio of clinical evidence, a track record of clinical use, and broad adoption by physicians.

This is an important milestone for Pacific Edge’s commercial journey in the USA, says CEO, David Darling, and comes on the back of 10 years of successful clinical evidence and commercial development.

“Over the preceding years many of our customers in the USA have been hampered in their commercial use of Cxbladder while the Cxbladder technology has not been specifically included in the guideline recommendations. Inclusion in the NCCN Bladder Cancer guidelines is a major commercial milestone for the Company in the USA and will be of significant value as we progress our commercial discussions with our many urologist customers including the large healthcare organisations we are targeting.”

ENDS

For more information contact:

David Darling
Chief Executive Officer
Pacific Edge Ltd
P: +64 (3) 479 5800











Sure is great news Miner - another significant step forward.
Adds a bit of "balance" to the otherwise negative commentary regularly emanating from some quarters.

[silverblizzard888]

Can we start to trust DD just a wee wee bit with this ann ?

Given the need for this company to be financially viable I'd say trust comes with revenue growth, reduced expenses and the possibility of profit. All else is smoke in the air to keep shareholders from their boredem.

[bottomfeeder]

Have to agree, this sounds like a step in the right direction, but too little too late. My biggest concern is that by the time PEB starts being profitable, the number of shares will be watered down so much that each share will earn only a shadow of the original shares.

Would you consider the company successfull when it starts to make a profit or when it has recovered all of the past losses and then starts making a profit.

Are the company officers and Directors that mercenary that they will bring out the champagne when the company makes a profit. If it ever does.

[Dentie]

Have to agree, this sounds like a step in the right direction, but too little too late. My biggest concern is that by the time PEB starts being profitable, the number of shares will be watered down so much that each share will earn only a shadow of the original shares.

Given this news (& hopefully better is now on the horizon), if I was a Director - I would seriously consider the Company buying back as many of the available shares that it could afford (by one way or another!). That would console a few concerned holders in this regard.

[whatsup]

Have to agree, this sounds like a step in the right direction, but too little too late. My biggest concern is that by the time PEB starts being profitable, the number of shares will be watered down so much that each share will earn only a shadow of the original shares.

Would you consider the company successfull when it starts to make a profit or when it has recovered all of the past losses and then starts making a profit.

Are the company officers and Directors that mercenary that they will bring out the champagne when the company makes a profit. If it ever does.

b fp---er, That should not happen until the chief fishhead hits the $100,000,000 sales that he made in a public statement all those years ago, were to happen " in a very short time ",

[Minerbarejet]

Actually I dont recall seeing anything about this NCCN side of the requirements for recognition and validity.

Possibly its the removal of a major hurdle for PEB so the next few announcements may be very interesting.

CMS and Kaiser would hardly go the whole hog without it being written into the guidelines.

Nothing to hold those two back now?

Lets hope so.

[GTM 3442]

I see that the price is now hovering around 20cps, roughly where I bought in back in 2012.

New Zealand's a frustrating country - full of good ideas which seldom come to anything. More potential than you can shake a stick at, but the execution and implementation just seems to never happen.

[artemis]

I see that the price is now hovering around 20cps, roughly where I bought in back in 2012.

New Zealand's a frustrating country - full of good ideas which seldom come to anything. More potential than you can shake a stick at, but the execution and implementation just seems to never happen.

Well Xero and Diligent come to mind. Neither of course still on the NZX.

[Balance]

Well Xero and Diligent come to mind. Neither of course still on the NZX.

There are actually a lot of good stories out there - Xero, Diligent are two but there's also Serko, Gentrack, PushPay, ATM and many more which do not list on the market.

A lot of rubbish listed on the market which should never be listed in the first place - so investors need to be careful.

Where do we even start - Snakk, Plus SMS, Feltex, CBL, Intueri, Wynyard, Provenco, SeaDragon,Bliss, Tru Screen etc etc.

Two common themes which emerge from the failures - backdoor list & Forsyth (Clients are pesky flies) Barr!

[Balance]

Actually I dont recall seeing anything about this NCCN side of the requirements for recognition and validity.

Possibly its the removal of a major hurdle for PEB so the next few announcements may be very interesting.

CMS and Kaiser would hardly go the whole hog without it being written into the guidelines.

Nothing to hold those two back now?

Lets hope so.

So what other hurdles (minor & major) have DD & the clowns in PEB not told the market about* as they bumble their way through the US medicare system?

* Being very generous and assuming that they are even aware of the hurdles!

[Balance]

It's July and the clock is ticking louder and louder - PEB will run out of cash by Nov at the latest.

All the announcements to date have no material impact on the ability of PEB to generate meaningful revenues and cashflow - all designed to get the sp up to do (yet another) CR.

Can see it a mile away! :t_down:

[Minerbarejet]

Yesterdays announcement will have a huge impact on their ability to generate meaningful revenues and cashflow.

Previously:
DD. "Gidday Fred, Any chance on a bit of uptake with cxBladder , you know our clinical validity."
Fred: "Sorry, Dave, cant do much about it until its in the guidelines, You know we cant operate outside them much even though we know how good it is."

Now:
DD: "Gidday Fred, Did you see where our test has been accepted into the guidelines?
Fred: Yeah, saw that Dave,send your rep over and we'd better have a chat.

So what on the CR?
Can always buy some back when they are making zillions. :)

[Sideshow Bob]

Not much in the market of a reaction of share price to the announcement, and not flagged as material or price sensitive. Is this telling?

[kiwidollabill]

Ok, firstly I do hope they translate this into revenue.

Secondly, did anyone look into the NCCN? its a group of 28 cancer hospitals, largely affiliated with universities, I'm sure they have influence at being at the 'pointy end' of uptake of new technology (I can find PEBs submission to them from 2 years ago) but there are not the decision makers who actually pay the bills. The PR is also cautious enough not to imply that this is the case

If the next financials come out with a big jump in Rev then cool, but I think the days of fooling the market with a flashy update is past them....

[Balance]

Yesterdays announcement will have a huge impact on their ability to generate meaningful revenues and cashflow.

Previously:
DD. "Gidday Fred, Any chance on a bit of uptake with cxBladder , you know our clinical validity."
Fred: "Sorry, Dave, cant do much about it until its in the guidelines, You know we cant operate outside them much even though we know how good it is."

Now:
DD: "Gidday Fred, Did you see where our test has been accepted into the guidelines?
Fred: Yeah, saw that Dave,send your rep over and we'd better have a chat.

So what on the CR?
Can always buy some back when they are making zillions. :)

From "finalizing' negotiations with the large healthcare organisations in previous PR releases, it's now rephrased as 'progress' commercial discussions

Great leap backwards seems to be the implication from the statement!

Finalising to progress
Negotiations to discussions

“Over the preceding years many of our customers in the USA have been hampered in their commercial use of Cxbladder while the Cxbladder technology has not been specifically included in the guideline recommendations. Inclusion in the NCCN Bladder Cancer guidelines is a major commercial milestone for the Company in the USA and will be of significant value as we progress our commercial discussions with our many urologist customers including the large healthcare organisations we are targeting.”

Only thing* we are aware of which could profoundly change PEB's access to revenues and cashflow is LCD inclusion.

* Assuming that there are NO other outstanding hurdles out there. With DD and PEB, it's all about the sizzle - forget about the sausage which is made with rendered rancid beef fat & decayed possum meat.

[davflaws]

* Assuming that there are NO other outstanding hurdles out there. With DD and PEB, it's all about the sizzle - forget about the sausage which is made with rendered rancid beef fat & decayed possum meat.

Nah - lets not get confused.
The sausage is the goods - tasty, nutritious, top of the line, and lots cheaper than the competition. But marketing and commercialisation has (as you repeatedly say, and say, and say....) been crap and the butcher may go under.

[Minerbarejet]

Its amazing how certain posters always manage to find something negative in a positive announcement and turn it into a sausage sizzle.

"Great leap backwards seems to be the implication from the statement!"

How on earth do you figure that?

[RTM]

The contrast between PEB and ATM is a bit interesting.
ATM seem to have marketed really well a variant of a me 2 product (milk) with a nebulous health benefit.
PEB have the science and a novel, beneficial product that will help mankind but have lacked the ability to sell it.
And then there is Theranos of course. Interesting prog. on 60 minutes last night.

Ah...the power of marketing !

[Balance]

Its amazing how certain posters always manage to find something negative in a positive announcement and turn it into a sausage sizzle.

"Great leap backwards seems to be the implication from the statement!"

How on earth do you figure that?


It is positive in that a major hurdle seems to have been overcome.

It is negative in that it is yet another issue which PEB has never alerted to before as a hurdle. The impression gained has to be that there are many more hurdles more yet to overcome but you will never know, given PEB's track record of bumbling its way in the US market and sizzling up every single development as a 'milestone'.

Intention of the 'sizzle' is of course so that PEB can bring out its begging bowl for yet more funds to continue to pay the executives and CEO their large salaries and benefits - for delivering bugger all.

Then, there's the comment about progressing discussions with major customers when the company has been trumpeting 'negotiations nearing completion' for the last 3 years!

The lack of credibility of PEB & DD is clearly seen in the share price - any other company trumpeting said achievements of milestones would be lauded for making huge strides in its commercialization program towards profitability.

[Minerbarejet]

I'm sure all of us and PEB are completely disillusioned that they have been unable to conform to your predetermined timeframes for their success.

All that is happening is that everyone is learning the extent of the ramifications in changing clinical procedures.

This was an unknown as was the severity of entrenched dissonance.

60% of NZ DHBs have taken it on board and are changing clinical procedures.

No prizes for guessing what 60% of the US market would do.

ATM would look like a penny stock

[Balance]

I'm sure all of us and PEB are completely disillusioned that they have been unable to conform to your predetermined timeframes for their success.


You are very quick to forget who actually has been leading the market up the garden path and in the process, has lost almost all credibility :

Who set out the $100m 5 year revenue target?

Who uttered those famous 'several tens of thousands of tests' to be done in the year 2014?

Who issued the famous 'negotiations near completion' comments year after year?

PEB of course!

[Sideshow Bob]

I'm sure all of us and PEB are completely disillusioned that they have been unable to conform to your predetermined timeframes for their success.

All that is happening is that everyone is learning the extent of the ramifications in changing clinical procedures.

This was an unknown as was the severity of entrenched dissonance.

60% of NZ DHBs have taken it on board and are changing clinical procedures.

No prizes for guessing what 60% of the US market would do.

ATM would look like a penny stock

Don't think it is worth comparing to ATM currently. A2 under-promises, over-deliveries, hasn't gone cap in hand to shareholders multiple times, makes money, has large growth, and money in the bank.

No one wants PEB to fail. However they have been listed for almost the same time as A2 (PEB founded in 2001, listed in Feb 2003). PEB hasn't turned a profit and still battling away on getting approvals etc etc - while I would see a good change technology will over take them. PEB has a market cap of $107m, ATM has $12b market cap (b as in billion).

IF PEB got 60% of the US market that would be fantastic, but a big IF and their track record doesn't exactly exude confidence that they will get there. Plenty of time to get in IF they do crack it. In the meantime, a good chance that holders will be asked to put their hand in their pockets again, and face further dilution. Struggling to see any real light at the end of the PEB tunnel - but hope I'm wrong.

[Balance]

Don't think it is worth comparing to ATM currently. A2 under-promises, over-deliveries, hasn't gone cap in hand to shareholders multiple times, makes money, has large growth, and money in the bank.

No one wants PEB to fail. However they have been listed for almost the same time as A2 (PEB founded in 2001, listed in Feb 2003). PEB hasn't turned a profit and still battling away on getting approvals etc etc - while I would see a good change technology will over take them. PEB has a market cap of $107m, ATM has $12b market cap (b as in billion).

IF PEB got 60% of the US market that would be fantastic, but a big IF and their track record doesn't exactly exude confidence that they will get there. Plenty of time to get in IF they do crack it. In the meantime, a good chance that holders will be asked to put their hand in their pockets again, and face further dilution. Struggling to see any real light at the end of the PEB tunnel - but hope I'm wrong.

Yup - even if one pays 50c (150% premium to the current sp to get in - if indeed PEB has a future as the next ATM :D) it will still be well well below where DD & Swain sold some of their shares back in 2013/14.

[Minerbarejet]

Something I didnt forget though is that others here sold at that time as well, eh, Balance.

[Balance]

Something I didnt forget though is that others here sold at that time as well, eh, Balance.


1. If it is consistent with PEB's anticipates, then as PEB's spokesman he has articulated to the market - why is he not backing it up or updating the market now?

2. His comments led directly to the sp spiking upwards - after which he sold. As Chairman of PEB, he has to be cleaner than clean.

As for vocal minority, the sp tells you that it ain't no vocal minority who are questioning the company and its management.

Luckily the market does not consist of armchair investors who sheepishly accept whatever a company tells them.

Pike River and Rakon are two prime examples of shareholders who think the sun shone out of the proverbial of the directors and management.

Mr Swann better explain his comments at the AGM - there are ways of making him talk, as they say. :D


MAC, believe me when I write that Mr Swann better front up at the AGM and addresses his 'tens of thousands of tests' comment. .

Nothing to do with trading or conspiracy theories - it is called continuous disclosure. It is about an even playing field for all shareholders.

It is simply unacceptable for the Chairman of a company like PEB to make that kind of comment, pump up the hype, sell shares and then, pretend he never said anything.

Meanwhile, note that less than 5,000 tests are forecast for the July 2014 to June 2015 year by one of the major brokers in their report on PEB. The report was prepared after extensive discussions with the company.

Eloquently articulated at that time as to why PEB is not a trustworthy entity any more with its statements.

And why some of us took the cue and sold down our shares.

[Balance]

The underwriters and institutions must have a different set of criteria for measuring the comments from PEB & its management?

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-records-loss-again

A year ago and what did DD & the company said?

"Pacific Edge chairman Chris Gallagher said he hoped the company would break even ''as quickly as possible'', with updated financial guidance to be supplied later this year."

No update about breakeven - to be expected.

Chief executive David Darling believes the $16.2million will be enough to see the company through the next year's operation, noting forecasts are for 23,000 tests during full year 2019.
''I don't see the need for that, [capital raising] but you can never be categorical on the position,'' he said.

2 months after uttering those words, PEB raised:

- $2.622m in July 2018

- $12m in Nov 2018

And is obviously priming up the market with all the 'positive' developments in thew last 2 months to raise more money!

''Canterbury tests are really rocketing,'' Mr Darling said.

DD's definition of rockets must be the ones which are now banned from NZ? Sky rockets lit with a match and explode in the sky with a whimper.

[Minerbarejet]

"New Zealand side of the business may possibly become profitable this year"

That's an update as far as I'm concerned.

[Balance]

"New Zealand side of the business may possibly become profitable this year"

That's an update :Das far as I'm concerned.

Yup - one wheel out of 4 wheels will be spinning - even while the car veers towards the ravine with the ever excitable DD behind the wheels! :t_up::t_up:

[Minerbarejet]

"Both Mr Gallagher and Mr Darling highlighted that commercial growth of key US customers had been slower than expected, with many of the test adoption processes outside Pacific Edge's control."

Seems that it is still outside Pacific Edge's control.
Control will be handed over on completion of the Driving Test.:)

[bottomfeeder]

All true, Balance has hit the nail on the head. Too easy to build confidence in a company that has a product with promise, but seems to financially deliver only promises. One day you have to decide whether you are holding an investment or supporting benefits to mankind as a charity.

[Balance]

"Both Mr Gallagher and Mr Darling highlighted that commercial growth of key US customers had been slower than expected, with many of the test adoption processes outside Pacific Edge's control."

Seems that it is still outside Pacific Edge's control.
Control will be handed over on completion of the Driving Test.:)

Really?

Such a convenient excuse, isn't it after promising $100m within 5 years and 'several tens of thousands of tests' in the year after launching CxBladder - before DD & Swann sold some of their shares!

This is no Driving Test - not when they have taken over $100m from investors to drive the car now to the edge of the ravine.

[Sideshow Bob]

"Both Mr Gallagher and Mr Darling highlighted that commercial growth of key US customers had been slower than expected, with many of the test adoption processes outside Pacific Edge's control."

Seems that it is still outside Pacific Edge's control.
Control will be handed over on completion of the Driving Test.:)

They've been going for over 18 years (sorry I keep banging on about this), and they turned over $3.8m last year. Regulatory hurdles are not easy, but still??

(ATM only turn over $3.4m.....per day)

[Minerbarejet]

At times I think that some punters dont get what it is all about.

1. Invent or build something, test it and verify it works, then go and sell it.

Pretty straightforward.

2. Invent or build something, test it and verify it works, then using the verification, change ingrained medical methods and overcome dissonance on a major scale, then go and sell it.

Not as easy, by a long shot especially given the Catch 22 nature of trying to get sufficient sales to get the verification and the change.

Its like the car being driven around because the buyer wanted to verify if they could get 25000 miles out of the tyres before they stumped up the dosh to the sales yard.

[TideMan]

At times I think that some punters dont get what it is all about.

1. Invent or build something, test it and verify it works, then go and sell it.

Pretty straightforward.

2. Invent or build something, test it and verify it works, then using the verification, change ingrained medical methods and overcome dissonance on a major scale, then go and sell it.

Not as easy, by a long shot especially given the Catch 22 nature of trying to get sufficient sales to get the verification and the change.

Its like the car being driven around because the buyer wanted to verify if they could get 25000 miles out of the tyres before they stumped up the dosh to the sales yard.

Yes, we all understand that, now.
But why did that clown DD tell us it was as easy as 1?
As an expert at commercialising science he's been paid megabucks to live the high life on expenses in the US while achieving not much, all the time telling us a pack of lies about his success.

[Balance]

Yes, we all understand that, now.
But why did that clown DD tell us it was as easy as 1?
As an expert at commercialising science he's been paid megabucks to live the high life on expenses in the US while achieving not much, all the time telling us a pack of lies about his success.

I think describing DD as a clown is doing a dis-service to the clown profession? After all, clowns actually are professionals tasked to make us all have a good laugh.

DD & PEB have made their shareholders weep and the market cry!;)

Nincompoop or ignoramus would be more appropriate terms to describe how pathetic their bumbling efforts at commercializing have been.

[TideMan]

I think describing DD as a clown is doing a dis-service to the clown profession? After all, clowns actually are professionals tasked to make us all have a good laugh.



Maybe I'm coulrophobic? Never thought of it before.
Anyway I agree nincompoop is more appropriate.

[Ggcc]

I think describing DD as a clown is doing a dis-service to the clown profession? After all, clowns actually are professionals tasked to make us all have a good laugh.

DD & PEB have made their shareholders weep and the market cry!;)

Nincompoop or ignoramus would be more appropriate terms to describe how pathetic their bumbling efforts at commercializing have been.
DD did pull the wool over my eyes for years, but I am thankful to have pulled out of this share for now. I believe in the product just not the management trying to sell it. DD is completely out of his depth in his role and has been for years. Maybe there is no one else wanting to sail this ship into the iceberg........

[TideMan]

I invested back in 2013 because I believed in the product and the good it would do.
I still believe that and I've held the shares for that reason.
Imagine what the scientists must feel.
They relied on these super suits to take their baby to market, and accepted that DD and his ilk must be paid 5 or so times what they get paid to do the job.
Now, we find that the super suits had no idea what they were doing and they've run the company into the ground.
If I were one of those scientists, I'd be more than a little pissed-off, as I am as an investor.
It's great science, let down by nincompoops.

[kiora]

Good investment lesson isn't it?
"I invested back in 2013 because I believed in the product and the good it would do."
I never gambled with this share but have learnt the same lesson elsewhere :mellow:

[Minerbarejet]

Can you imagine any investors providing the necessary funding for development of any company if the CEO went around saying "we aren't sure if it is going to work"

There is no precedent for this innovative technology getting established. Now with the NCCN inclusion just released one of the barriers has been removed.

Might also point out that most of the blah blah has been about CMS relating to 40% of the US population and I have the feeling that they make up rules to suit themselves.

So while everyone is throwing DD under the bus lets not forget the 60% outside of the CMS who, it would appear, now have verified and approved access to cxBladder.

IMHO, I suspect that this lack of guideline approval has been responsible for slow uptakes in the VA, Tricare and other major organisations.
They would be doing everything by the book.
Now, allegedly, cxBladder is in the guide book as a consideration for use on bladder cancer.

It appears that a tremendous amount of work has been carried out in the background in order to get approvals from the right quarters and that work is about to pay off.

[Balance]

Can you imagine any investors providing the necessary funding for development of any company if the CEO went around saying "we aren't sure if it is going to work"



You are endorsing and encouraging unethical, misleading and underhanded behaviour by

directors and management of companies?

Sounding very much like the infamous Forsyth Barr's Credit Sails capital raising pitch - "Catch flies with honey, not vinegar'

Says a lot about PEB with its sales and marketing staff (including its CEO & US CEO) accounting for the bulk of expenses, year after year - for delivering bugger all.

[Minerbarejet]

Hardly.

Every company has disclaimers that cover forward looking statements issued by the company itself.

This does not extend to hearsay statements issued on their behalf by newspapers and the ramblings of confused punters on other media.

I'm sure they are dreadfully sorry they have been unable to deliver to timelines as established by others not even related to or participating in the work involved.

[Balance]

Hardly.

Every company has disclaimers that cover forward looking statements issued by the company itself.

This does not extend to hearsay statements issued on their behalf by newspapers and the ramblings of confused punters on other media.

I'm sure they are dreadfully sorry they have been unable to deliver to timelines as established by others not even related to or participating in the work involved.

Several tens of thousands of tests in 2014 and $100m revenue in 5 years - covered extensively by the media and played up by the company - FACT.

Sale of shares by Chairman & CEO after said comments & statements - FACT.

[Minerbarejet]

100 million a year in 5 years was a goal. Forward looking statement. FACT

"Several tens of thousands of tests" HEARSAY (courtesy of ODT)

Sale of shares by CEO when there was unexpected surge in SP due to market reaction to a couple of early signings.
Unexpected as they were in the process of a rights issue at 55 cents and a SP up over a dollar. FACT

Sale of shares by Chairman.
Personal and nothing to do with anyone else.

[Balance]

"Several tens of thousands of tests" HEARSAY (courtesy of ODT)



Interview with Mr Swann.

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-business

& repeated

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11178639

So everything in the article is 'hearsay'?

Checkout the definition of hearsay, me ole MBJ.

I think you are in for a BIG surprise!

[Minerbarejet]

hearsay

[ˈhirˌsā]




NOUN



information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.
"according to hearsay, Bob had managed to break his arm"
synonyms:
rumor (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+rumor) · gossip (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+gossip) · tittle-tattle (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+tittle-tattle) · tattle (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+tattle) · idle chatter · idle talk · mere talk · report (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+report) · stories (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+stories) · tales (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+tales)· tidbits (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+tidbits) · bavardage (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+bavardage) · on dit · Kaffeeklatsch (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+Kaffeeklatsch) · labrish · shu-shu · buzz (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+buzz) · [more]






law

the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.
"everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay" · [more]












No surprises there
Next

[Balance]

"Several tens of thousands of tests" HEARSAY (courtesy of ODT)




I see, after reading the weekend posts, we now have conflicting statements from the Chair and the CEO (again). The Chair was reported in late December as saying 'tens of thousands of test in 2014'; the CEO, in a private (admittedly unsubstantiated) email, denies that statement was ever made.

If the Chair was misquoted, or even worse, had not even made the comment at all, then why was no action taken by PEB to correct a material misrepresentation that has remained in the public arena for 4 months now.

Has it allowed three insiders time to sell down, whilst the rest of us await details of a fictional 'tens of thousands of tests'?

It's about time someone came clean isn't it?


Oh ra ra ra.

PDF of the email with names, dates, times and original emails or it didn't happen.

In my view the allegation of a mistatement by the Chair is more likely to be fraudulent than the existence of the alleged email.

Status quo of the company's statements versus some random dude on a forum?

Happy to be convinced otherwise with actual evidence.

Comprehensively discussed at that time and it's clear someone was telling porkies - BIG TIME!

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?2705-PEB-Pacific-Edge-Ltd/page418

[Balance]

The alleged email was never produced, of course.

In fact, poster on alleged email disappeared from sight on the thread after making said comment.

[Balance]

[COLOR=#111111][FONT="]hearsay

[ˈhirˌsā]




NOUN

[B]
[LIST]
information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.




In this case, we all know it was a quote directly from the then Chairman in an interview - totally substantiated and never refuted by the company.

Chairman took the opportunity of a spike in the sp after that to sell some of his shares without correcting the so-called 'hearsay'- speaks volume of his and PEB's integrity!

[Balance]

Boy : "Why are you digging that hole deeper and deeper?"

MBJ : "To prove that stone age man had wireless technology."

Boy : "How so?"

MBJ : "I have dug up copper wires at 3 feet, now I just need to dig another 1km down."

:D:D:D

[Minerbarejet]

Bingo!
Thanks for that link, Balance
Been looking for this since that last announcement came out.
It is nothing new, it just had never come up in discussion much if at all.

Its something that has been under our noses all this time.
From the CLIA Certification Presentation from 18/3/2013


‡ 68,800 patients are diagnosed each year withbladder cancer(5) - NCCN Clinical PracticeGuidelines in Oncology specify that patients receive12 monitoring cystoscopies in the five yearmonitoring period ± 4 in the year of diagnosis and 2in each following year(5)

[Dentie]

After 9/11 happened, in circa 2002/03, the leaders of the US & the UK (especially) took it upon themselves to announce that Iraq had WMD's.

That was the catalyst for an allied invasion that killed about 500,000 people and decimated much of the main infrastructure...hunting down Saddam Hussein...and who also paid with his life....https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24547256

Contrary to what Messer's Bush and Blair had us believe - there was no WMD's...https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/07/usa.iraq1

Despite the carnage to men and buildings...nobody has ever been punished and the disgusting episode has faded from most people's memories a long time ago (except probably for the Iraqi people who are left!).

My message is: If the world can manage to forget re-telling the aforementioned atrocity and forgive Bush & Blair - when will PEB's critics get over their personal crusade against DD & CS etc by re-telling & re-telling & re-telling something that happened 5 years ago?

There has been yearly AGM's whereby there has been an opportunity to oust DD and he is still there because people are obviously ok with him being there. The whole Board and management clearly underestimated the sloth like movement of the US's health system...that was their only sin that I can see.

PEB finally look like they are on the cusp of realising some financial potential...let them get on with it in peace!

[Joshuatree]

Good luck Dentie, i know you are in PEB for all the right reasons, hope you make some dosh out of it too.

[Drew95]

"When will PEB's critics get over their personal crusade against DD & CS etc by re-telling & re-telling & re-telling something that happened 5 years ago?"

I agree Dentie. I work for a company that used to make big claims about making it big in the USA, but never did. Their saving grace was a) they were smart enough to stop making public such claims early on b) they didn't put falsifiable numbers against the claims c) they managed to be very successful elsewhere. This company also develops disruptive products, also started around 2005, has never broken even, and has spent around $3000 million to date. A lot of things that are very similar (but not identical) to PEB. Oh yeah. That other company has a market cap of $6,000,000,000 plus!

The key to PEBs progress now is issuance of the LCD. And once they have that then PEB probably will be very successful in the US. Note that even Balance says they will get LCD - its just a matter of when.

You can have the opinion that DD a) has been dishonest and manipulative, or b) has understimated the time needed to get 'bank-able' cash sales into the accounts and was naive enough to claim numbers by certain dates which were easily falsifiable

I have read every report and listened to every investor presentation and read a lot of the posts here - my conclusion is 'b'.

Time will tell, and it will be interesting to see what the outcome is.

BTW - thanks to Balance for being the devils advocate on this - it is always good to have a contrarion opinion on things. I agree with him in many ways. Pike river was just one of my rushes of blood to the head!

[Dentie]

You can have the opinion that DD a) has been dishonest and manipulative, or b) has understimated the time needed to get 'bank-able' cash sales into the accounts and was naive enough to claim numbers by certain dates which were easily falsifiable

It was Chris Swann who made the 10k tests claim (that seems to upset a certain poster on here so much over and over and over and over again). Mr Swann left 3 years ago.

Those that believe in what PEB has to offer humanity have moved on and are looking forward. Unfortunately, for reasons known only to them, some are still deeply intrenched by the above historic claim...and probably lost a few quid on it! Investing to any degree based on a forward looking statement which has even the scantest involvement in the US economy - is speculatory at best!

[Drew95]

It was Chris Swann who made the 10k tests claim (that seems to upset a certain poster on here so much over and over and over and over again). Mr Swann left 3 years ago.

To be fair DD (foolishly IMO) did mention $100 million of billable tests in 2019, and billable tests only amounted to $14 million.

[Minerbarejet]

To be fair DD (foolishly IMO) did mention $100 million of billable tests in 2019, and billable tests only amounted to $14 million.

Yeah 14 million and all done without guidelines or regulatory approval.

Begs the question doesnt it.

What will be the effect of having the product installed in the guidelines and full regulatory approval?

Gaining just 10% of the monitoring market alone will take care of any 100 million and then some.

[kiwidollabill]

I agree Dentie. I work for a company that used to make big claims about making it big in the USA, but never did. Their saving grace was a) they were smart enough to stop making public such claims early on b) they didn't put falsifiable numbers against the claims c) they managed to be very successful elsewhere. This company also develops disruptive products, also started around 2005, has never broken even, and has spent around $3000 million to date. A lot of things that are very similar (but not identical) to PEB. Oh yeah. That other company has a market cap of $6,000,000,000 plus!!

I think I can guess the company.... :)

[Drew95]

Yes. Damned if they do (uses up cash quicker, until LCD comes through). Damned if they don't (won't meet guidelines).

[Balance]

It was Chris Swann who made the 10k tests claim (that seems to upset a certain poster on here so much over and over and over and over again). Mr Swann left 3 years ago.

Those that believe in what PEB has to offer humanity have moved on and are looking forward. Unfortunately, for reasons known only to them, some are still deeply intrenched by the above historic claim...and probably lost a few quid on it! Investing to any degree based on a forward looking statement which has even the scantest involvement in the US economy - is speculatory at best!

Nonsense.

Plenty of companies raise money by the billions of dollars in the States on forward looking statements - and succeed in the States.

PEB not succeeding is due to its bumbling directors and management.

[Balance]

After 9/11 happened, in circa 2002/03, the leaders of the US & the UK (especially) took it upon themselves to announce that Iraq had WMD's.

That was the catalyst for an allied invasion that killed about 500,000 people and decimated much of the main infrastructure...hunting down Saddam Hussein...and who also paid with his life....https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24547256

Contrary to what Messer's Bush and Blair had us believe - there was no WMD's...https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/07/usa.iraq1

Despite the carnage to men and buildings...nobody has ever been punished and the disgusting episode has faded from most people's memories a long time ago (except probably for the Iraqi people who are left!).

My message is: If the world can manage to forget re-telling the aforementioned atrocity and forgive Bush & Blair - when will PEB's critics get over their personal crusade against DD & CS etc by re-telling & re-telling & re-telling something that happened 5 years ago?

There has been yearly AGM's whereby there has been an opportunity to oust DD and he is still there because people are obviously ok with him being there. The whole Board and management clearly underestimated the sloth like movement of the US's health system...that was their only sin that I can see.

PEB finally look like they are on the cusp of realising some financial potential...let them get on with it in peace!

Difference of course is that Bush & Blair are both out of the picture, and suffering from the odium of being failures when it comes to Iraq & the Middle East - they cannot do any more damage.

DD & PEB are still around and newbies deserve to know that they have failed to deliver on numerous milestones and have made very bullish, misleading statements & comments to get ever more $$$$ from investors - with nothing but plenty of losses to show.

That, Dentie - is the reason why the market must be kept fully abreast of what promises, comments, undertakings, forward statements etc PEB & DD have made - so that there's a fully informed market.

[davflaws]

DD & PEB are still around and newbies deserve to know that they have failed to deliver on numerous milestones and have made very bullish, misleading statements & comments to get ever more $$$$ from investors - with nothing but plenty of losses to show.

That, Dentie - is the reason why the market must be kept fully abreast of what promises, comments, undertakings, forward statements etc PEB & DD have made - so that there's a fully informed market.

Yup - and it is important that you keep saying so. But maybe perhaps not quite so often?

[Dentie]

Difference of course is that Bush & Blair are both out of the picture, and suffering from the odium of being failures when it comes to Iraq & the Middle East - they cannot do any more damage.

DD & PEB are still around and newbies deserve to know that they have failed to deliver on numerous milestones and have made very bullish, misleading statements & comments to get ever more $$$$ from investors - with nothing but plenty of losses to show.

That, Dentie - is the reason why the market must be kept fully abreast of what promises, comments, undertakings, forward statements etc PEB & DD have made - so that there's a fully informed market.

The "difference" was only achieved by one being forced out - due to the Constitution of an 8 year term and the other due to being forced out by his own party. The question is...what "punishment" have they had to endure or undertake for their terrible decision making?

DD is still there because he obviously has the support of the shareholders and the Board. There is an AGM coming soon....we'll see if he still enjoys the shareholders' and Board's support eh?

The bigger mistake (IMO) was trying to go to the US market in the first place.

[Minerbarejet]

Balance, I have a suggestion.
Why dont you buy a few, (if you havent already) and then you can go to the AGM and hold everyone accountable face to face during question time.
Its in a few days so you had better hurry.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
This is not to be considered financial advice but rather a possible means to the resolution of your apparent problems.

[Balance]

Balance, I have a suggestion.
Why dont you buy a few, (if you havent already) and then you can go to the AGM and hold everyone accountable face to face during question time.
Its in a few days so you had better hurry.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
This is not to be considered financial advice but rather a possible means to the resolution of your apparent problems.

The share price, the horrendous never ending cash burn and continuous capital raisings - your apparent problems you choose to pretend do not exist.

I am proud and happy to bring to market’s attention.

[Minerbarejet]

These things do exist, we are all aware of it and have all made our various assessments of the situation.

I for one will not reduce myself to kicking management in the guts while they are close to making something of it.

You tend to ignore any progress which is an unfortunate attitude.

[Dentie]

The share price, the horrendous never ending cash burn and continuous capital raisings - your apparent problems you choose to pretend do not exist.

I am proud and happy to bring to market’s attention.

As a shareholder of PEB over many years and therefore part of the market ... I take offence (& am insulted) at your apparent insinuation that PEB's shareholders (& potential shareholders) are unaware of PEB's events and, thereby, need your belated assistance. For those who aren't actually aware - you would have to question their suitability to be in the stock market - period!

To act as a self-appointed proxy "re-announcer" for PEB's historic announcements (& then pat themselves on the back for doing it) is egoism at its worst and only suggests there is an unaddressed personal issue.

[Drew95]

I think I can guess the company.... :)

If you were thinking Seadragon, you are not even close. :D

[Balance]

As a shareholder of PEB over many years and therefore part of the market ... I take offence (& am insulted) at your apparent insinuation that PEB's shareholders (& potential shareholders) are unaware of PEB's events and, thereby, need your belated assistance. For those who aren't actually aware - you would have to question their suitability to be in the stock market - period!

To act as a self-appointed proxy "re-announcer" for PEB's historic announcements (& then pat themselves on the back for doing it) is egoism at its worst and only suggests there is an unaddressed personal issue.

Why would you take offence at my postings and feel insulted when PEB has done bugger all in terms of wealth creation but made shareholders like you lost so much money so far? :D

As I have written before, I am so proud to have contributed (via my postings and warnings) the avoidance of the destruction of wealth for those who heed and agree with said warnings and assessments, and acted accordingly.

My dear Dentie - you must so wish you receive as many messages and the postings of many a PEB shareholder and prospective shareholders who thanked me for helping them to avoid the PEB train wreck.

[Dentie]

Why would you take offence at my postings and feel insulted when PEB has done bugger all in terms of wealth creation but made shareholders like you lost so much money so far? :D

As I have written before, I am so proud to have contributed (via my postings and warnings) the avoidance of the destruction of wealth for those who heed and agree with said warnings and assessments, and acted accordingly.

My dear Dentie - you must so wish you receive as many messages and the postings of many a PEB shareholder and prospective shareholders who thanked me for helping them to avoid the PEB train wreck.

That's easy to explain (although I will do so reluctantly)...I take offence and feel insulted by the likes of yourself because - believe it or not....not everyone comes from Hamelin!

In actual fact, quite the opposite to your assertion - PEB delivered me sizeable wealth in early March 2014. Some ever so nice people paid me $1.56 per share for an equally sizeable amount of shares which I had previously purchased for an average of about .14c per share. That was re-invested (outside the sharemarket) and has continued to mushroom since. Anything I may still have in PEB is petty in comparison....even if I lose the lot (although unlikely).

The BIG difference is, I don't see the need to make a habit of posting self adulating and condescending remarks in order to influence other punters - or just to try and flatter myself.

I learned a lesson a long time ago. If you follow what everyone else does - you get what everyone else gets. If you have the courage to follow your own path (with all that entails) - you deserve the riches that may follow.

Enjoy your weekend Balance.

[bottomfeeder]

Not suggesting some of you havent made money. Traders and others in the know have bought and sold at the right time and no doubt have made some money along the way, albeit at the expense of other shareholders. However this doesnt change the fact that the company is losing money and bumbling its way to somewhere. Based on past performance this is more likely to be nowhere. Trading at a profit was easier in the earlier days when we all trusted the company and directors that they were being correct and honest. But now that we see that most of their predictions have not come to fruition, it is much more difficult to trade this share because a favourable announcement just doesnt lead the shareprice "up up and away".

[Balance]

Not suggesting some of you havent made money. Traders and others in the know have bought and sold at the right time and no doubt have made some money along the way, albeit at the expense of other shareholders. However this doesnt change the fact that the company is losing money and bumbling its way to somewhere. Based on past performance this is more likely to be nowhere. Trading at a profit was easier in the earlier days when we all trusted the company and directors that they were being correct and honest. But now that we see that most of their predictions have not come to fruition, it is much more difficult to trade this share because a favourable announcement just doesnt lead the shareprice "up up and away".

You can tell by some of the postings (eg. #17169 above) that the true intent of some of the posters is to harass those who highlight the failings of PEB - so that they can trade their shares by making sure that there's only hype on PEB.

No other way to explain why there's such aggro and clamor by them to shut down the bumbling management & directors - which is not only historical but happening even now while we write.

[Minerbarejet]

You can tell by some of the postings (eg. #17169 above) that the true intent of some of the posters is to harass those who highlight the failings of PEB - so that they can trade their shares by making sure that there's only hype on PEB.

No other way to explain why there's such aggro and clamor by them to shut down the bumbling management & directors - which is not only historical but happening even now while we write.

Gosh.
Is that whats going on?
You mean that when the 1.50 hype was going on you were participating in order to sell your shares???????
Crikey. I dont believe it.
And your last statement doesnt make sense.
Nobody is trying to shut down the so called ( your opinion) bumbling management and directors.

[Dentie]

You can tell by some of the postings (eg. #17169 above) that the true intent of some of the posters is to harass those who highlight the failings of PEB - so that they can trade their shares by making sure that there's only hype on PEB.

Oh, here you go again, making allegations that are so far from the truth.

In actual fact, I first got involved in PEB in 2007/08 for the long term. I also travelled to the AGM's (ask eg Hancocks & DD!!) and shared time with those that matter. Great insights to be had if one takes the time to attend an AGM.

I never had the intention to "trade" at all - but when the so-called "traders" and "speculators" blew the price out to ridiculous levels - who would not have sold?? I bet that's why DD & Co sold and I am sure you would have done the same Balance. How does it go...willing buyer and willing seller makes a happy market!!!

Take things for what they "actually" are....not for what you allege them to be.

BTW - I have no intention to "harass" anyone...incl yourself. I just like the truth.

[Balance]

To be fair DD (foolishly IMO) did mention $100 million of billable tests in 2019, and billable tests only amounted to $14 million.



Yeah 14 million and all done without guidelines or regulatory approval.



Drew95 referred to DD's assertion of US$100m (yes, it was US$100m or NZ$150m) but PEB delivered, get this - NZ$3.8m in the year to March 2019!

NZ$3.8m = 2.5% of said US$100m aimed for in 2019!!!!!! Almost impossible to find another listed company which has failed to achieve its aim by an unimaginable 97.5%!

The $14m referred to by MBJ is the TOTAL sales PEB has generated in 5 years!!!!!!

Any wonder the sp is 21c?

[Minerbarejet]

I think your exclamation mark key is sticking badly.

[davflaws]

How about you guys dial it back a bit. It always gets unpleasant when people start attributing motives to others.

[Dentie]

How about you guys dial it back a bit. It always gets unpleasant when people start attributing motives to others.

You got it mate - I've said my bit!

[RGR367]

......................

................!!!!!!

Any wonder the sp is 21c?

Yeah we were wondering about that too. Shouldn't it be more like 0.021 cents now to really reflect how marvelous (sic) the marketing was carried by this company?

disc: got sucked into this too when it was at 44-50 cents. Got out at 36.

[Drew95]

Drew95 referred to DD's assertion of US$100m (yes, it was US$100m or NZ$150m) but PEB delivered, get this - NZ$3.8m in the year to March 2019!

NZ$3.8m = 2.5% of said US$100m aimed for in 2019!!!!!! Almost impossible to find another listed company which has failed to achieve its aim by an unimaginable 97.5%!

Just to be clear (for those who don't know the full background) that is $NZ 3.8 million as measured by cash in the bank (if US revenue) or cash and receivables if NOT in the US. About 80% of sales are in the US and those sales are not recognized in the books unless and until the cash is banked IE US sales are accounted for on a cash rather than an accrual basis).

Actual Billable sales were around $NZ 14.8 million - around $NZ 11 million could not be recognized as revenue (or receivables) in the financial statements due to NZ Accounting Standards due to NZ IFRS 15. Refer to Note 5, page 28 of the 2019 Financial Statements here...

https://www.pacificedgedx.com/assets/Uploads/Annual-Reports/PEL-Annual-Report-2019.pdf

[Snow Leopard]

Yeah we were wondering about that too. Shouldn't it be more like 0.021 cents now to really reflect how marvelous (sic) the marketing was carried by this company?

disc: got sucked into this too when it was at 44-50 cents. Got out at 36.

A current market cap of $100M for a company with $3.8M operating revenue, a very uncertain future, not to mention the track record of the management (shush!).

At this price it is not even speculating, the risk/reward equation says stay away.


But it would be nice if PEB became a going concern one day.
Disc: Do not hold, no intention to buy.

[Drew95]

Actual Billable sales were around $NZ 14.8 million

Apologies. Should have said - that $14.8 million is not an official number. It is arrived at by multiplying Lab Test (15697 as per the 2019 financial report) by 82% ( as per the 2019 financial report) and then by $NZ 1150 ( the national pricefor all Cxbladder tests (US$760 per test).

[Baa_Baa]

A current market cap of $100M for a company with $3.8M operating revenue, a very uncertain future, not to mention the track record of the management (shush!).

At this price it is not even speculating, the risk/reward equation says stay away.


But it would be nice if PEB became a going concern one day.
Disc: Do not hold, no intention to buy.

Nicely put, might be hard to fathom for some people what many years of shares issuance does to dilute them into oblivion, despite a cap value that stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the company value as a going concern. Maybe one day as you say but even 1/10th of the current SP looks speculative.

One thing Balance has got so right, apart from all the facts, is that this is another unmitigated disaster that the NZX should never have allowed to be listed. No company should ever be listed with just a good idea, some early science, no products, no business model, no customers or revenue. IMHO

CBD anyone? It’s PEB reincarnated.

[Snow Leopard]

....One thing Balance has got so right, apart from all the facts, is that this is another unmitigated disaster that the NZX should never have allowed to be listed. No company should ever be listed with just a good idea, some early science, no products, no business model, no customers or revenue. IMHO....

I totally disagree with you (and thus presumably Balance) on that.

Any company who puts up a reasonable honest prospectus and can find enough financial support should be able to list. [I am sure someone will jump on the word 'honest' there]

It is up to us the potential investors to do our research and decide whether to be involved at the various stages of the companies evolution.

[Balance]

I totally disagree with you (and thus presumably Balance) on that.

Any company who puts up a reasonable honest prospectus and can find enough financial support should be able to list. [I am sure someone will jump on the word 'honest' there]

It is up to us the potential investors to do our research and decide whether to be involved at the various stages of the companies evolution.

Therein lies the difference between the NZX and other exchanges.

And we know that the NZX is going backwards big time while other exchanges are going from strength to strength.

Sad but true.

[Balance]

Nicely put, might be hard to fathom for some people what many years of shares issuance does to dilute them into oblivion, despite a cap value that stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the company value as a going concern. Maybe one day as you say but even 1/10th of the current SP looks speculative.

One thing Balance has got so right, apart from all the facts, is that this is another unmitigated disaster that the NZX should never have allowed to be listed. No company should ever be listed with just a good idea, some early science, no products, no business model, no customers or revenue. IMHO

CBD anyone? It’s PEB reincarnated.

I am sure that we would all love for NZ to have some wonderful listed biotech & biomed companies - think how great that will be for NZ Inc.

PEB, Botry-Zen, Pharma Zen and Blis Technologies were brought to the market by the man with the Midas touch before his untimely death in 2003.

There's another company which he also brought to the market - ATM.

So what made ATM succeed? Research for yourself the answers (clue - changes in shareholders & corresponding change in Management)and it could well be that there will be a time to reassess PEB & Bliss.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/archive/national-news/50848/Fonterra-backed-off-A2-deal-when-Paterson-died

[Marilyn Munroe]

From the UK newspaper The Daily Mail web pages

"Prostate cancer blood test heralded as 'the most accurate ever' could cut invasive biopsies by a third."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7292547/Prostate-blood-test-cut-biopsies-third.html

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[silu]

From the UK newspaper The Daily Mail web pages

"Prostate cancer blood test heralded as 'the most accurate ever' could cut invasive biopsies by a third."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7292547/Prostate-blood-test-cut-biopsies-third.html

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

I thought PEB is doing tests for bladder cancer only?

[Balance]

I thought PEB is doing tests for bladder cancer only?

Point being made by MM is that technology marches on - nobody is going to wait on PEB.

[davflaws]

I thought PEB is doing tests for bladder cancer only?
My understanding is that the suite of bladder cancer products are the only ones PEB is currently "commercialising", but that there are other products utilising different genetic "markers" under development, including a test for colorectal cancer.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Minerbarejet]

My understanding is that the suite of bladder cancer products are the only ones PEB is currently "commercialising", but that there are other products utilising different genetic "markers" under development, including a test for colorectal cancer.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

This explains it a bit
https://www.otago.ac.nz/ctcr/people/parry-guilford.html

[Drew95]

This explains it a bit
https://www.otago.ac.nz/ctcr/people/parry-guilford.html


Great link - thanks Miner - and some great links inside that link too.

[Minerbarejet]

Great link - thanks Miner - and some great links inside that link too.

Here is a bit of positive thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzNoPRDp9q8&feature=youtu.be

[Drew95]

Here is a bit of positive thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzNoPRDp9q8&feature=youtu.be

More about Dr. Sia Daneshmand - https://providers.keckmedicine.org/provider/Sia+Daneshmand/205180#provider-details-experience

[Drew95]

Here is a bit of positive thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzNoPRDp9q8&feature=youtu.be


If you don't want to watch the whole 37 minutes, the parts that stood out for me were...

13:55 and 33:22 - gives a good insight into the competition, which I was not clear about prior to this.

21:22 - why CXBladder fills an unmet need

36:05 - compares markers for prostate cancer progress with markers for bladder cancer progress

36:58 - list of institutions using CXBladder

[Balance]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/338382/304439.pdf

Thought for a second that DD has finally done the right thing and showed his confidence in the future of PEB by buying shares in the company (albeit a few shares only) but

Alas, it is not to be.

How the heck he has been given shares in recognition of PERFORMANCE is beyond comprehension but then, PEB dances to a different tune from anybody else when it comes to performances! :t_down:

Tear-Jerking Performances - that's what you get from DD & PEB - entry price is shares in PEB & never-ending requests for more money for their tearful displays! :(:(:(

[Balance]

Yet another urine based test (this time in China) -

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190725130817.htm

Clock is ticking louder and louder as PEB's cash runs out - and you can be sure that PEB is already busy out with its begging bowl for more funds before the AGM.

[Minerbarejet]

Better hurry up then, the AGM is this afternoon.:)

[Balance]

Better hurry up then, the AGM is this afternoon.:)

Exactly! :D

Cheap these days for those of you who live in Dunedin to attend the tear-jerking performances at the AGM with just $2.00 - 10 shares at 20c each!

You recover that $2.00 and more with the sausage rolls and DD home made commercialized sponge cakes!

The drinks are served in CxBladder cups (reusable).

[Minerbarejet]

Exactly! :D

Cheap these days for those of you who live in Dunedin to attend the tear-jerking performances at the AGM with 10 shares costing $2.00!

You recover that $2.00 and more with the sausage rolls and DD home made commercialized sponge cakes!

Do you mean you AREN'T GOING?

[Balance]

Do you mean you AREN'T GOING?

Prefer to spend my $2 on a Magnum ice cream - more pleasurable than attending a tearful event, even you would agree?

[Minerbarejet]

Depends where you put the ice cream I suppose.:)

[Balance]

Depends where you put the ice cream I suppose.:)

You mean PEB & DD could be persuaded to commercialize the use of ice cream to sooth the tear inducing losses of PEB?

I am all for that - will definitely buy 10 shares!

[RTM]

Yet another urine based test (this time in China) -

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190725130817.htm

Clock is ticking louder and louder as PEB's cash runs out - and you can be sure that PEB is already busy out with its begging bowl for more funds before the AGM.

It is sad to see this happening. This kind of industry would be great for New Zealand. Exactly what we need.
Disc. No longer a holder.

[Balance]

It is sad to see this happening. This kind of industry would be great for New Zealand. Exactly what we need.
Disc. No longer a holder.

PEB had an opportunity to distribute in China.

My contact in the pharma industry (ex ICP Bio :eek2:) said PEB was contacted by a well reputed China entity but after initially expressing interest, PEB did not even bother to respond to further queries and requests for meetings.

The rest as they say, is history with PEB spending $131m so far and getting nowhere in the States.

[Dentie]

The rest as they say, is history with PEB spending $131m so far and getting nowhere in the States.

That's not what I hear from the AGM just now...

For a start, CxBladder has replaced cystoscopy as the "gold standard" in large areas. This is huge news!

[barney]

I agree Dentie. Very good meeting.

Unfortunately my phone rang part way through the meeting so I missed a part of it. Was there an update regarding Kaiser Permanente ?

[Balance]

That's not what I hear from the AGM just now...

For a start, CxBladder has replaced cystoscopy as the "gold standard" in large areas. This is huge news!

From the same mouth which uttered 'US$100m sales in 2019'?

And same mouth which got most excited about achieving $3.8m in 2018!

Looking forward to PEB being the fastest growth company in the whole wide world by year end!

[barney]

From the same mouth which uttered 'US$100m sales in 2019'?

And same mouth which got most excited about achieving $3.8m in 2018!

Looking forward to PEB being the fastest growth company in the whole wide world by year end!

How is it the someone who has no investment or interest in a company spends so much of his time obsessed with its business.

It's terribly sad.

[Drew95]

It is sad to see this happening. This kind of industry would be great for New Zealand. Exactly what we need.
Disc. No longer a holder.


Quote #1 from this article - "We are just at the beginning of this new diagnostic innovation," says the study co-senior author, Xuefeng Liu,

So only 17 years behind PEB

Quote #2 from this article - "This study, published as a "rapid report," compares tumor biopsies from 70 patients with individual urine specimens.

Seriously. They have a sample of size of 70? Compared with PEB's tens of thousands.

Quote #3 from this article - "The overall success rate of culturing urine CRC was about 84%.'

So how will this ever compete with CXBladder's 97%specificity rate?

[Dentie]

How is it the someone who has no investment or interest in a company spends so much of his time obsessed with its business.

It's terribly sad.

I vehemently agree with you Barney. Unfortunately, for some, it has become a personal obsession.

Have no worries though, I bet there are some supposed "non-holders" with their fingers hovering over the buy button.

As for KP - it seems they have very weird processes to deal with - very "klunky" - but once you get accepted, they are a massive opportunity for PEB. As always, seems like it is an iterative process and can't be too far away. But, clearly, it is the LCD that all are waiting for - with massive cash funds ready to drop into the revenue line at that point.

[Dentie]

Quote #1 from this article - "We are just at the beginning of this new diagnostic innovation," says the study co-senior author, Xuefeng Liu,

So only 17 years behind PEB

Quote #2 from this article - "This study, published as a "rapid report," compares tumor biopsies from 70 patients with individual urine specimens.

Seriously. They have a sample of size of 70? Compared with PEB's tens of thousands.

Quote #3 from this article - "The overall success rate of culturing urine CRC was about 84%.'

So how will this ever compete with CXBladder's 97%specificity rate?


Hi Drew, I'd leave the bait on the hook mate.

[barney]

I vehemently agree with you Barney. Unfortunately, for some, it has become a personal obsession.

Have no worries though, I bet there are some supposed "non-holders" with their fingers hovering over the buy button.

As for KP - it seems they have very weird processes to deal with - very "klunky" - but once you get accepted, they are a massive opportunity for PEB. As always, seems like it is an iterative process and can't be too far away. But, clearly, it is the LCD that all are waiting for - with massive cash funds ready to drop into the revenue line at that point.

Thanks Dentie.

At some point they will need more cash but I doubt they will have any trouble raising it. It may even come via more US funds.

[Drew95]

Hi Drew, I'd leave the bait on the hook mate.


Haha. You are right of course. It must be because my my very ancient ancestors were fish.

[Balance]

Quote #1 from this article - "We are just at the beginning of this new diagnostic innovation," says the study co-senior author, Xuefeng Liu,

So only 17 years behind PEB



PEB is the 'gold' standard of how long commercialization of a test takes!!!!!????? :eek2:

So I guess since Auckland has only now started putting an underground transport in place that the rest of the world will be waiting with baited breath for the new gold standard of how long underground transport development takes?

Please stop me laughing my head off - I thought I have read it all before! :t_up::t_up::t_up:

[Dentie]

PEB is the 'gold' standard of how long commercialization of a test takes!!!!!????? :eek2:

So I guess since Auckland has only now started putting an underground transport in place that the rest of the world will be waiting with baited breath for the new gold standard of how long underground transport development takes?

Please stop me laughing my head off - I thought I have read it all before! :t_up::t_up::t_up:

Hey Drew - nice to see that hook is still all baited up...

[Balance]

Hey Drew - nice to see that hook is still all baited up...

So says those who believe in the US$100m hook !

[pierre]

How is it the someone who has no investment or interest in a company spends so much of his time obsessed with its business.

It's terribly sad.

I think it would be helpful if PEB could come up with a cure for OCD. We don't need a diagnostic test - the affliction is, unfortunately, painfully obvious.

[Arthur]

They cut salespeople in USA to try and trim costs, they trimmed down to 12, but have decided to go back to 16. Personally I cant see that making a big difference either way. Perhaps they were paying a generous retainer and a percentage of "sales", not cash received. The new female director seems pretty clued up. The overall mood seemed less ra ra and more quieter optimism that it will eventually will come right. They were not happy about the cash issue question, saying they could go until next year on current cash.

[Drew95]

Hey Drew - nice to see that hook is still all baited up...

Even I am only foolish enough to be tempted by fresh bait. Old bait that has been bobbing around for a long time - no thanks. :)

Hang on. Does saying that you are not taking the bait mean that you actually did take the bait??? :scared:

[Ggcc]

Looking as of the 31st March PEB had $12.8 million in cash. With a monthly cash deficit of $1.5 million they will run out of money by the end of November, which will result in another capital raise unless something magical happens.

How many capital raises do they need to break even?? I understand those that have stayed with this company have their own reasons, I did as well. Until I was sick of the empty promises and the "please keep believing" attitude. I sold at a loss and bought something else that made me money so far. I may buy back if the company actually runs like a business, instead of a charity. However I don't see this happening anytime soon. DYOR, but again I say it thanks Balance for making myself and others see the light.

[Sideshow Bob]

Looking as of the 31st March PEB had $12.8 million in cash. With a monthly cash deficit of $1.5 million they will run out of money by the end of November, which will result in another capital raise unless something magical happens.

How many capital raises do they need to break even?? I understand those that have stayed with this company have their own reasons, I did as well. Until I was sick of the empty promises and the "please keep believing" attitude. I sold at a loss and bought something else that made me money so far. I may buy back if the company actually runs like a business, instead of a charity. However I don't see this happening anytime soon. DYOR, but again I say it thanks Balance for making myself and other see the light.

It's a liquid market - if/when it does get through all the regulatory risks, and starts making money, then can easily buy back in once de-risked. I hope they succeed, but their track record to date isn't exactly stellar - and other fish to fry out there.

[Balance]

Looking as of the 31st March PEB had $12.8 million in cash. With a monthly cash deficit of $1.5 million they will run out of money by the end of November, which will result in another capital raise unless something magical happens.

How many capital raises do they need to break even?? I understand those that have stayed with this company have their own reasons, I did as well. Until I was sick of the empty promises and the "please keep believing" attitude. I sold at a loss and bought something else that made me money so far. I may buy back if the company actually runs like a business, instead of a charity. However I don't see this happening anytime soon. DYOR, but again I say it thanks Balance for making myself and others see the light.

Nothing magical is going to happen - PEB will need to do a cash issue and capital raising to survive.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12254670

At this year's AGM :

"We're tracking to plan" and want to get to cash-flow positive company-wide as soon as possible, he (DD) said.

"he declined to comment on whether another capital raising would be required this year."


Go back one year and what did PEB, or rather DD & CC said at the 2018 AGM :

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/cash-hard-edged-question

At last year's AGM : David Darling said "We're confident cash sales will grow for full-year 2019, to get to cash flow break-even as soon as possible".

"At question time he was asked twice by shareholders, and later by the ODT, if another cash injection from shareholders was needed, but would only reiterate the cash position was being "closely monitored".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Schrodinger]

Picked this two years ago:

Pacific Edge reduced its US sales force to 12 last year to contain costs, but sales growth had slowed as a result, Gallaher said. The board yesterday agreed to take that up to 16, which would still leave three lower-priority regions uncovered, he noted.

Lets run some numbers:

16x $100K = $1.6M USD ($2.4M NZD) base
12x $100K = $1.2M USD ($1.8M NZD) base

Admin + US operation costs + commissions??

US sales $3.3M NZD 2019
US Sales $3.2M NZD 2018

Sales team barely covering their costs. Obviously the US sales team had an amazing 2019. 16 sales people added no "extra" revenue over the whole year???

Love to see the 6th month results to see the progress.

I will find it highly unlikely the US tests will be collected:

"About half the tests the firm did last year in the US were for Medicare patients. Once an LCD is in place, Pacific Edge will be able to negotiate reimbursement on more than 17,000 tests done to date."

These must be more than 120 days due and should be written off.

[Drew95]

US sales $3.3M NZD 2019
US Sales $3.2M NZD 2018



To clarify, US billable test sales in 2019 were approx $11.8 million**, of which $3.3 million was collected in cash, and recognized as revenue in the books.

** (Lab throughput = 15697) x (Billable % = 82%) x ($NZD 1150 per test)*** x (US Market share = 80%) = $NZ 11.84 million

*** Note that $NZ1150 is the agreed rate for 50% of the US Market covered by CMS. Other institutions pay different rates. VA pays $2246 for example.

[Dentie]

Nothing magical is going to happen - PEB will need to do a cash issue and capital raising to survive.

Rather than a CR, perhaps they might look outside the traditional box and attain cash by securing it against the already completed (& owed) tests. (Ie factoring).

[Baa_Baa]

Rather than a CR, perhaps they might look outside the traditional box and attain cash by securing it against the already completed (& owed) tests. (Ie factoring).

Factoring is essentially a loan secured by an asset that has to be repaid plus interest. PEB potential revenue for completed tests would not meet any lending criteria imo.

[Balance]

Rather than a CR, perhaps they might look outside the traditional box and attain cash by securing it against the already completed (& owed) tests. (Ie factoring).

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-seeks-last-capital-raising

Good news! This will be the LAST capital raising!:t_up:

Bad news! That was 4 years ago. :scared:

[Dentie]

Factoring is essentially a loan secured by an asset that has to be repaid plus interest. PEB potential revenue for completed tests would not meet any lending criteria imo.

Don't want to argue this point, however factoring is not a loan and the criteria is nothing like "lending criteria" and, while on the subject, either is Invoice Assignment. They are just different forms of cash flow financing techniques which are very popular. They are commonly misunderstood - even by Accountants and Lawyers - and, if used properly, are not necessarily expensive.

If they tried to get normal debt financing they would have to pay interest but, as you correctly mention, the lending criteria would exclude them (no tangible asset to lend against) unless a lender is happy to lend against Patents etc.

Do you think there wouldn't be a price to pay if they again go via the Equity road(CR)? I am sure existing shareholders love having their holding diluted....how does that compare with a bit of interest?

If I was DD, I would even explore exchanging a bit of cash for some of those juicy tax losses. He only needs to buy a bit more time...the wait appears to be going to be worth it.

[Baa_Baa]

Don't want to argue this point, however factoring is not a loan and the criteria is nothing like "lending criteria" and, while on the subject, either is Invoice Assignment. They are just different forms of cash flow financing techniques which are very popular. They are commonly misunderstood - even by Accountants and Lawyers - and, if used properly, are not necessarily expensive.

If they tried to get normal debt financing they would have to pay interest but, as you correctly mention, the lending criteria would exclude them (no tangible asset to lend against) unless a lender is happy to lend against Patents etc.

Do you think there wouldn't be a price to pay if they again go via the Equity road(CR)? I am sure existing shareholders love having their holding diluted....how does that compare with a bit of interest?

If I was DD, I would even explore exchanging a bit of cash for some of those juicy tax losses. He only needs to buy a bit more time...the wait appears to be going to be worth it.

As it happens I know enough about factoring to have tried to put it in plain English for the rest of the folks who are off to google what it is, which you agree is not really a path worth following to raise capital.

As a cashflow remedy, I don’t think it would work either as no lender would take the risk on the uncertainty of the receivables, they are not tangible enough (reliable) and there are no realistic assets backing to overcome this.

I would certainly not challenge your tax knowledge, in any event it seems inevitable that PEB will need a 29th capital injection (somehow) to keep the lights on.

Like some other stocks, I’d rather pay a lot more for the shares when they are able to do business profitably than park capital for no or negative return while risking it on a history of overly optimistic promises that have not come to fruition.

Patience, it might happen, then is the time to invest, imo. I don’t understand reputable investment houses backing such speculative companies, to such large amounts, without having been also caught in the hype and the sunk capital trap that PEB is, so far.

[Balance]

If I was DD, I would even explore exchanging a bit of cash for some of those juicy tax losses. He only needs to buy a bit more time...the wait appears to be going to be worth it.

Seriously if you have a tax efficient and IRD approved method of selling tax losses, let us know.

We will all become super wealthy!

[kiora]

Well put BB
Re using tax losses.
An entity that is making a lot of money could buy up < 50%,fold their operating assets in to PEB and use PEB tax losses.How about that for an option?
$120m in tax losses that are useable?
510,871,464 shares
Then PEB worth net $30m? Losses worth around 6 c /share?
Then what would PEB be worth?
May have to change their name?
May have to do something about the cash drain.
https://simplywall.st/stocks/nz/pharmaceuticals-biotech/nzx-peb/pacific-edge-shares/news/investors-who-bought-pacific-edge-nzsepeb-shares-five-years-ago-are-now-down-74/

[Minerbarejet]

Anyone looking for this?

https://www.nccn.org/patients/guidelines/bladder/index.html#zoom=z

Excellent little booklet outlining the patient guidelines.

Page 39 for those under any illusions that the truth has not been stated.

Have a nice day

[Carpenterjoe]

Anyone looking for this?

https://www.nccn.org/patients/guidelines/bladder/index.html#zoom=z

Excellent little booklet outlining the patient guidelines.

Page 39 for those under any illusions that the truth has not been stated.

Have a nice day

Agree,

The booklet is fantastic.

The door is open for high quality bio markers to provide better testing, add quality of life and save taxpayers at least 30% on diagnostic procedures.

It is only more time now,
Lump sum payment is on the way,
Within 12 months medicare/caid paying,
Then lastly the lazy insurance companies who rufuse to reimburse non FDA approved tests,

Then let us expend.

[Balance]

Well put BB
Re using tax losses.
An entity that is making a lot of money could buy up < 50%,fold their operating assets in to PEB and use PEB tax losses.How about that for an option?
$120m in tax losses that are useable?
510,871,464 shares
Then PEB worth net $30m? Losses worth around 6 c /share?
Then what would PEB be worth?
May have to change their name?
May have to do something about the cash drain.
https://simplywall.st/stocks/nz/pharmaceuticals-biotech/nzx-peb/pacific-edge-shares/news/investors-who-bought-pacific-edge-nzsepeb-shares-five-years-ago-are-now-down-74/

Dentie's point is that PEB's tax losses are worth around $30m as you point out - if that can be realised via some tax efficient structure sale to a profitable company, that will get rid of the need to do a CR.

Makes a whole heap of sense except that all the tax loopholes to utilse tax losses have been closed. I can recall the good old days of preference shares, and the 50/50 split of the tax avoided by the profitable company.

[Dentie]

Dentie's point is that PEB's tax losses are worth around $30m as you point out - if that can be realised via some tax efficient structure sale to a profitable company, that will get rid of the need to do a CR.

Makes a whole heap of sense except that all the tax loopholes to utilse tax losses have been closed. I can recall the good old days of preference shares, and the 50/50 split of the tax avoided by the profitable company.

All I'm saying is (everything being equal) tax losses are just another form of "asset" for a company which have had them attributed to it....

[Balance]

All I'm saying is (everything being equal) tax losses are just another form of "asset" for a company which have had them attributed to it....




If I was DD, I would even explore exchanging a bit of cash for some of those juicy tax losses. He only needs to buy a bit more time...the wait appears to be going to be worth it.

No - that's not what you were saying.

[Dentie]

No - that's not what you were saying.

I agree with you Balance (for once :p) but I think you (& others) may have missed my sentiment.

My two quotes you have tagged are completely relevant with each other ... you just need to read between the lines a bit. Hint: I wasn't referring to any "tax loopholes".

BTW - the total current $$$ tax loss benefit seems to be approx $38m.

[whatsup]

Little bit more interest today up 7% and holding reasonable well .knocking on the .23 door highest for 6 weeks, is this a take away from the agm ?

[whatsup]

Little bit more interest today up 7% and holding reasonable well .knocking on the .23 door highest for 6 weeks, is this a take away from the agm ?

.23 gone (for now !!)

[Minerbarejet]

Probably a few buying back in after a positive AGM that did not indicate a CR being imperative at this time.

[whatsup]

Next cab @ .25 atm.

[Minerbarejet]

Next cab @ .25 atm.
Probably Balance buying up large:)

[psychic]

Yes the AGM presentation read well and has obviously got a few going. Much was made of the recent announcement that CxBladder had been included in the NCCN guidelines, and such an inclusion absolutely should.

But read the guidelines and you will find that it wasn’t. No mention of CxBladder at all.

This is what the CEO’s notes said in his AGM presentation:

“Just this month, we were advised that Cxbladder has been included in the latest version of the National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) Guidelines for Bladder Cancer in the USA…. as an approved clinical intervention for high-risk patients being monitored for the recurrence of urothelial cancer. This is a pivotal commercial outcome for the company with the NCCN Guidelines widely recognised and used as the standard for clinical policy and practice in oncology by clinicians and payors in the USA. To be considered for review and inclusion in the NCCN guidelines requires an extensive portfolio of clinical evidence, a track record of clinical use, and broad adoption by physicians.”

The market announcement said

CXBLADDER INCLUDED IN THE LATEST NCCN BLADDER CANCER GUIDELINES IN THE USA Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge (NZX: PEB), advises that Cxbladder has been included in the latest version of the National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) Guidelines for Bladder Cancer in the USA. This is a significant achievement with the NCCN Guidelines widely recognised and used as the standard for clinical policy and practice in oncology by clinicians and payors in the USA. The new guidelines update, which was issued on 10 July 2019, state that the evaluation of urinary urothelial tumor markers (Cxbladder by direct reference) may be considered during surveillance of high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer. The NCCN Bladder Cancer Panel considers this a category 2B recommendation, which means there is NCCN consensus that the use of Cxbladder as a clinical intervention is appropriate. This follows on from Cxbladder’s inclusion in clinical guidelines by several New Zealand public healthcare providers in the last year. To be considered for review and inclusion in the NCCN guidelines requires an extensive portfolio of clinical evidence, a track record of clinical use, and broad adoption by physicians. This is an important milestone for Pacific Edge’s commercial journey in the USA, says CEO, David Darling, and comes on the back of 10 years of successful clinical evidence and commercial development. “Over the preceding years many of our customers in the USA have been hampered in their commercial use of Cxbladder while the Cxbladder technology has not been specifically included in the guideline recommendations. Inclusion in the NCCN Bladder Cancer guidelines is a major commercial milestone for the Company in the USA and will be of significant value as we progress our commercial discussions with our many urologist customers including the large healthcare organisations we are targeting.”


To me this reads as if the NCCN are recommending the use of CxBladder and have included in the Clinical pathway, no?

But cystoscopies and cytology are still the go if I understand it correctly. The only change is the small print, Urinary Tumour Markers may now be considered in the surveillance of High Risk, non – muscle invasive bladder cancer (only). And this a low evidence level category 2b recommendation. In support of this the NCCN then references a literary study completed in 2015 by Chow et al in support of this and here is the abstract:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26501851


THE PURPOSE:
To systematically review the evidence on the accuracy of urinary biomarkers for diagnosis of bladder cancer in adults who have signs or symptoms of the disease or are undergoing surveillance for recurrent disease.

THE CONCLUSION:
Urinary biomarkers miss a substantial proportion of patients with bladder cancer and are subject to false-positive results in others. Accuracy is poor for low-stage and low-grade tumors.
Cxbladder was considered but with only one study found they found the precision “imprecise” and the strength of evidence “low”.

So this is what PEB mean when they say the NCCN state that the evaluation of urinary urothelial tumor markers (Cxbladder by direct reference) may be considered during surveillance of high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer.
I think it is very misleading and excitement needs to be kept in check.

[Minerbarejet]

Yes the AGM presentation read well and has obviously got a few going. Much was made of the recent announcement that CxBladder had been included in the NCCN guidelines, and such an inclusion absolutely should.

But read the guidelines and you will find that it wasn’t. No mention of CxBladder at all.

This is what the CEO’s notes said in his AGM presentation:

“Just this month, we were advised that Cxbladder has been included in the latest version of the National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) Guidelines for Bladder Cancer in the USA…. as an approved clinical intervention for high-risk patients being monitored for the recurrence of urothelial cancer. This is a pivotal commercial outcome for the company with the NCCN Guidelines widely recognised and used as the standard for clinical policy and practice in oncology by clinicians and payors in the USA. To be considered for review and inclusion in the NCCN guidelines requires an extensive portfolio of clinical evidence, a track record of clinical use, and broad adoption by physicians.”

The market announcement said

CXBLADDER INCLUDED IN THE LATEST NCCN BLADDER CANCER GUIDELINES IN THE USA Cancer diagnostics company, Pacific Edge (NZX: PEB), advises that Cxbladder has been included in the latest version of the National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) Guidelines for Bladder Cancer in the USA. This is a significant achievement with the NCCN Guidelines widely recognised and used as the standard for clinical policy and practice in oncology by clinicians and payors in the USA. The new guidelines update, which was issued on 10 July 2019, state that the evaluation of urinary urothelial tumor markers (Cxbladder by direct reference) may be considered during surveillance of high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer. The NCCN Bladder Cancer Panel considers this a category 2B recommendation, which means there is NCCN consensus that the use of Cxbladder as a clinical intervention is appropriate. This follows on from Cxbladder’s inclusion in clinical guidelines by several New Zealand public healthcare providers in the last year. To be considered for review and inclusion in the NCCN guidelines requires an extensive portfolio of clinical evidence, a track record of clinical use, and broad adoption by physicians. This is an important milestone for Pacific Edge’s commercial journey in the USA, says CEO, David Darling, and comes on the back of 10 years of successful clinical evidence and commercial development. “Over the preceding years many of our customers in the USA have been hampered in their commercial use of Cxbladder while the Cxbladder technology has not been specifically included in the guideline recommendations. Inclusion in the NCCN Bladder Cancer guidelines is a major commercial milestone for the Company in the USA and will be of significant value as we progress our commercial discussions with our many urologist customers including the large healthcare organisations we are targeting.”


To me this reads as if the NCCN are recommending the use of CxBladder and have included in the Clinical pathway, no?

But cystoscopies and cytology are still the go if I understand it correctly. The only change is the small print, Urinary Tumour Markers may now be considered in the surveillance of High Risk, non – muscle invasive bladder cancer (only). And this a low evidence level category 2b recommendation. In support of this the NCCN then references a literary study completed in 2015 by Chow et al in support of this and here is the abstract:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26501851


THE PURPOSE:
To systematically review the evidence on the accuracy of urinary biomarkers for diagnosis of bladder cancer in adults who have signs or symptoms of the disease or are undergoing surveillance for recurrent disease.

THE CONCLUSION:
Urinary biomarkers miss a substantial proportion of patients with bladder cancer and are subject to false-positive results in others. Accuracy is poor for low-stage and low-grade tumors.
Cxbladder was considered but with only one study found they found the precision “imprecise” and the strength of evidence “low”.

So this is what PEB mean when they say the NCCN state that the evaluation of urinary urothelial tumor markers (Cxbladder by direct reference) may be considered during surveillance of high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer.
I think it is very misleading and excitement needs to be kept in check.
Pretty much my thoughts initially, Psychic.
However I dont think you can get past the fact that cxBladder is a urinary urothelial tumor marker and is therefore entitled to be included.
One should perhaps make the observation that there are no other biomarkers specifically named which makes it a generalised statement applicable to all urinary urothelial tumor markers.
Raises the question as to whether it was anything PEB did to get this accomplished or it came from some other area 5 years ago and has finally got approval.
I would also assume that the competition would be equally delighted to be included.
They did say by Direct Reference which sort of covers it

[psychic]

Hi Miner, yeah, I kind of doubt it. They didn't release it to market for 5days after the review was published, think the loophole was probably brought to their attention! No, it is the misleading nature of the release that irks me. It might be a step in the right direction (by accident) but still needs a lot more supporting evidence.

[Minerbarejet]

That evidence keeps building though, Psychic and whether serendipity has struck early or not remains to be seen.

Better to be included than not and cant really do any harm.

I think along with you they could perhaps have been a little more generous in their explanation as to what prompted the inclusion and how it came about.

The other thing is we don't know if they had their own second application for inclusion in at the time.

Cheers
Miner

[Balance]

Probably Balance buying up large:)

Haha - I am in the camp of being willing if PEB ever turns around (drawing in my breath hard) to buy at 50c off those foolhardy souls (imo) who are taking the unreasonable risks now in throwing good money after bad to fund PEB's misadventures - happy to let them make their 100%.

If PEB gets back up to 50c, then it should be capable of going up to $2.00 so I am happy to take the next 100% and more with a PEB de-risked.

We shall see on Monday if it is yet another of PEB's regular sp 'move 'em up and sell 'em'.

[Leftfield]

xxxxxxxxxx

[Minerbarejet]

:):):):):):):):):):)

[Leftfield]

All cool thanks Miner, now deleted.

[Balance]

Better to be included than not and cant really do any harm.

This was in relation to PEB having its cxBladder test included in the NCCN.

Nothing to do with share prices nor an opinion on whether one should have held or not over the years.

Cheers
Miner

Still a very pertinent observation by LF - why risk your hard earned money with those who are doing a lousy job and only know how to spend, spend and spend?

[whatsup]

Finished @ .24 after the bell on Friday, is there something out there ?

[Carpenterjoe]

Finished @ .24 after the bell on Friday, is there something out there ?

Pretty sure this has already been posted here,

https://youtu.be/HzNoPRDp9q8

Goes over all the information we already know, but from someone on the front line and invovled with a guidline board.

[whatsup]

.26, new S Hers coming on board after the AGM !

[Balance]

.26, new S Hers coming on board after the AGM !

Or getting ready to do the next CR.

[Balance]

.26, new S Hers coming on board after the AGM !

And back to 26c again today.

Oh well, let's see if it gets to 50c (my trigger point). :D

[whatsup]

And back to 26c again today.

Oh well, let's see if it gets to 50c (my trigger point). :D

.27 hmmmmm, !

[Balance]

.27 hmmmmm, !

26.5c bid pre-opening with clearly just the one seller at 27c.

Maybe Paul Duncan & DD are getting traction telling their story with new' off shore mugs (oops - investors).

[Nigelk]

26.5c bid pre-opening with clearly just the one seller at 27c.

Maybe Paul Duncan & DD are getting traction telling their story with new' off shore mugs (oops - investors).

I sold at .275. Buyer was algo trading, it took about 20 trades to clear my little lot, so I suspect not a mum and dad investor. SP has fallen back sharply since so pleased with my timing.

[Dentie]

I sold at .275. Buyer was algo trading, it took about 20 trades to clear my little lot, so I suspect not a mum and dad investor. SP has fallen back sharply since so pleased with my timing.

I am thrilled to bits for you Nigel. It is so pleasing to see an investor ekeing out gains for themselves and, especially when they get the timing just right as well. What a success story that is - particularly for an investor of PEB. Well done to you mate.

[Meister]

I really wish this company and this product would succeed, but it does seem pretty ridiculous to check back on the state of things now years after I got out and see things have barely changed from a business perspective. I continue to watch with interest, but I wouldn't join this party until it was well and truly on the rise even if that does mean missing out on gains. Even with the supposed commercial progress made the risks of losing money here significantly outweigh the potential gains, it doesn't feel de-risked at all even after years! To be honest even if the commercial success does eventually become a reality I would find it hard to jump back in as I just don't trust the management team anymore :\

[Drew95]

Vote of confidence by COO and CFO??

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/339276/305504.pdf


http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/339276/305505.pdf

[Arthur]

They did not buy them. There were issued as a "bonus"

[Arthur]

Cash-flow negative at about $33,000 a day, so this buys them another half a day.

[winner69]

They did not buy them. There were issued as a "bonus"

Yep, a bonus for doing an outstanding job.

[Minerbarejet]

33000 a day divided by 1125 =29 tests per day
29 tests times 365 = 10,585 tests per annum at US equivalent.

[Drew95]

They did not buy them. There were issued as a "bonus"

IF a COO and a CFO, both of whom are VERY close to the coal face OPT to take a bonus in the form or shares (at the full current market price), when they had the option to take cash, then that indicates something. I think.

A few ifs and buts in there I know.

[winner69]

IF a COO and a CFO, both of whom are VERY close to the coal face OPT to take a bonus in the form or shares (at the full current market price), when they had the option to take cash, then that indicates something. I think.

A few ifs and buts in there I know.

Yes that’s positive

[Drew95]

The other thing I picked up at the Annual Meeting which may be positive was the fact that they have been increasing the number of sales people in the US again In the 2019 FY, the rate of sales increase (as measured by lab throughput) slowed

- as a result of them reducing the numbers of sales people in the US from 19 to 12 (until the LCD comes through)
- which was as a result of their need to preserve cash
- which was as a result of the fact that they don't get cash/ and therefore don't recognize as revenue or receivable anything sold via CMS (IE "so why burn cash when we can't recognize the revenue")

At the AM DD stated that they had increased the number of salespeople back up to 16 (?). Why do that, and increase the net cash burn, unless...

- those salespeople are going to generate cash-in-the-bank sales (IE non-CMS sales)
- there are very good indicators that LCD is very close
- they are confident that they have finance (in whatever form) teed up so that another cap raise will not be necessary, otherwise they are just bringing forward the date of the next cap raise??

Curious.

[Balance]

IF a COO and a CFO, both of whom are VERY close to the coal face OPT to take a bonus in the form or shares (at the full current market price), when they had the option to take cash, then that indicates something. I think.

A few ifs and buts in there I know.

Is that really the case though - cash or shares? I think it is a case of shares only.

This is a yearly occurrence with these two executives in any case so certainly not newsworthy to assess it as anything positive imo.

As an aside, bumped into a broker from Craigs last week at a function - he has gone stone cold negative on PEB after being exuberantly positive a couple of years ago - the word 'con' came up a few times in the course of discussion.

Good news as far as shareholders are concerned - means DD & his bunch of highly paid incompetent management are going to have to present something concrete to raise the next lot of funds.

Otherwise, it's shut down time, so no more throwing good money after bad after bad after bad after bad! :t_down:

[Balance]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/bison-group-wins-supreme-export-award

It is not like DD & PEB to keep quiet and not blow trumpets to herald PEB winning an award!

So in the interest of fairness, I hereby broadcast to one and all :

PEB - Winner of the inaugural Otago Export Award for Innovation!

"Pacific Edge was described by the judges as a "truly remarkable company that have taken on the big boys" to the benefit of a large number of patients"

Pity shareholders and investors are the ones who have taken such a hiding from the destruction of wealth as PEB took on the big boys with its urine samples while they stuck a few big painful needles up PEB's proverbial?

[Meister]

Wasn't PEB supposed to have announced a new capital raising by now?

[Ggcc]

Wasn't PEB supposed to have announced a new capital raising by now?
With good news comes Capital raise news. We just need 2 more positive announcements before then.