PEB - Pacific Edge Ltd

[Drew95]

Hi. Came across this...


I realise this is mostly about BCG therapy, but the statement "Unfortunately, a sensitive and specific biomarker for nonmuscle-invasive bladder cancer (NMIBC) has not been discovered" caught my eye.


Someone may have more insight into this than me?



https://www.urologytimes.com/article/bladder-ca-biomarkers-and-bcg-new-knowledge-urinary-microbiome/page/0/1



"Current gold standard follow-up involves regular cystoscopic evaluation with visual inspection for disease recurrence. Although cystoscopy is associated with minimal morbidity, it remains invasive, and detection of recurrence is surgeon dependent.
Given the limitations of cystoscopy, a multitude of complementary tests (urine cytology, fluorescence in situ hybridization, cytokine and genetic profiling) have been investigated as potential biomarkers to predict nonmuscle-invasive bladder cancer (NMIBC) responsiveness, recurrence, and progression. Unfortunately, a sensitive and specific biomarker for NMIBC has not been discovered."

"To date, no biomarker has shown high enough predictive value to warrant widespread clinical use (Eur Urol 2018; 73:738-48)."

https://www.europeanurology.com/article/S0302-2838(17)30850-3/fulltext



https://www.urologytimes.com/article/bladder-ca-biomarkers-and-bcg-new-knowledge-urinary-microbiome

[Drew95]

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/bison-group-wins-supreme-export-award

It is not like DD & PEB to keep quiet and not blow trumpets to herald PEB winning an award!

So in the interest of fairness, I hereby broadcast to one and all :

PEB - Winner of the inaugural Otago Export Award for Innovation!

"Pacific Edge was described by the judges as a "truly remarkable company that have taken on the big boys" to the benefit of a large number of patients"


Balance. Your broadcast to one and all seems to have had the desired effect. Turnover in PEB shares traded today achieved almost unprecedented and rarely achieved levels - see image. :eek2:

10742

[Leftfield]

Crikey! The CFO has ruled out growing PEB into a larger organisation....

"Pacific Edge Limited advises that Kate Rankin has resigned as Chief Financial
Officer with effect from 19th December 2019, to take up an opportunity with a
larger organisation."

Details here (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/341222)

[silverblizzard888]

Crikey! The CFO has ruled out growing PEB into a larger organisation....

"Pacific Edge Limited advises that Kate Rankin has resigned as Chief Financial
Officer with effect from 19th December 2019, to take up an opportunity with a
larger organisation."

Details here (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/341222)

I'm amazed that last statement has to be included in the first place, just write the CFO is leaving to take up another opportunity...... why, like why would you add the last part?
Its like trying to justify their short comings, next thing CEO sells some shares because the roof needs a repair and states the wifes been complaining he needs to get it done sooner rather than later ;)

[kiwidollabill]

In fairness, there are ALOT of 'larger organisations' than PEB....

[Balance]

I'm amazed that last statement has to be included in the first place, just write the CFO is leaving to take up another opportunity...... why, like why would you add the last part?
Its like trying to justify their short comings, next thing CEO sells some shares because the roof needs a repair and states the wifes been complaining he needs to get it done sooner rather than later ;)

Guess she got sucked in big time too in 2014 about the ‘several tens of thousands of tests’ and the US$100m revenue in 5 years?

PEB would be worth at least $1 billion by now if the US$100m was achieved and she would be able to retire on the umpteen number of options issued to her.

Good luck to her - gotto know when to cut your losses, unlike the underwriting institutions who are eagerly waiting for news of the next capital raise.

[barney]

I'm amazed that last statement has to be included in the first place, just write the CFO is leaving to take up another opportunity...... why, like why would you add the last part?
Its like trying to justify their short comings, next thing CEO sells some shares because the roof needs a repair and states the wifes been complaining he needs to get it done sooner rather than later ;)

They complain that there's not enough information. They complain that there's too much information.

Sigh.

[Balance]

Crikey! The CFO has ruled out growing PEB into a larger organisation....

"Pacific Edge Limited advises that Kate Rankin has resigned as Chief Financial
Officer with effect from 19th December 2019, to take up an opportunity with a
larger organisation."

Details here (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/341222)

Must be rather gutting to have accumulated 770,000 options at ever decreasing exercise prices over the last few years and giving up on the dream of the options going into the money?

Imagine if she had joined ATM in 2014 and accumulated those options!

But maybe not she is not as gutted as the legions of shareholders who put in REAL money into this wealth destroying company, throwing in bucket loads of good money after bad.

[Balance]

They complain that there's not enough information. They complain that there's too much information.

Sigh.

What information? That the real reason is probably that after 5 years of chasing the elusive US$100m target and the ever ‘it’s just around the corner’ year after year, she has decided to pull stumps and call it a day?

Imagine how much personal credibility Kate has lost in the last few years as she prepared presentations and financials - none of which met expectations?

As for investors being cynical, this is what happens when a company has a habit of issuing statements with no follow through proper clarifications or explanations when the statements proved to be grossly incorrect and way off targets.

[Balance]

In fairness, there are ALOT of 'larger organisations' than PEB....

And PEB is going to become an even smaller organisation soon.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-appoints-sparks-kate-rankin-cfo-bd-165341

Spoke to a broker (previously enthusiastic supporter of PEB who thought Kate’s appointment was one of the turning points to invest heavily into PEB) - no guesses that as far as he is concerned that her resignation is the sounding of the death knell of PEB.

‘Guess she cannot bring herself to be involved in the current capital raising after the last 6 in 5 years.’

[Leftfield]

Kate has gone to Scot technology...... greener pastures.

[barney]

And PEB is going to become an even smaller organisation soon.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-appoints-sparks-kate-rankin-cfo-bd-165341

Spoke to a broker (previously enthusiastic supporter of PEB who thought Kate’s appointment was one of the turning points to invest heavily into PEB) - no guesses that as far as he is concerned that her resignation is the sounding of the death knell of PEB.

‘Guess she cannot bring herself to be involved in the current capital raising after the last 6 in 5 years.’

What broker would that be then ?

[Balance]

What broker would that be then ?

You seriously think I am going to tell you?

[Minerbarejet]

And PEB is going to become an even smaller organisation soon.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pacific-edge-appoints-sparks-kate-rankin-cfo-bd-165341

Spoke to a broker (previously enthusiastic supporter of PEB who thought Kate’s appointment was one of the turning points to invest heavily into PEB) - no guesses that as far as he is concerned that her resignation is the sounding of the death knell of PEB.

‘Guess she cannot bring herself to be involved in the current capital raising after the last 6 in 5 years.’

Outstanding logic
If he was wrong before he probably is wrong again.
Barney just wants to know who to avoid.

[barney]

You seriously think I am going to tell you?

No. I didn't think you would tell me.

I know I wouldn't take advice from anyone who advises people to invest heavily in a company based on the appointment of an accountant and then advises the opposite when that accountant leaves. Seems a little odd that a broker in NZ ( I presume ) is now telling people that the death knell is now sounding for PEB because a staff member has left.

Also seems a little odd that you speak with a lot of brokers and people in the medical world, some overseas, who have all these great facts and opinions about PEB that nobody else is aware of. All of them anonymous of course.

Not that I'm doubting you at all.

[Balance]

No. I didn't think you would tell me.

I know I wouldn't take advice from anyone who advises people to invest heavily in a company based on the appointment of an accountant and then advises the opposite when that accountant leaves. Seems a little odd that a broker in NZ ( I presume ) is now telling people that the death knell is now sounding for PEB because a staff member has left.

Also seems a little odd that you speak with a lot of brokers and people in the medical world, some overseas, who have all these great facts and opinions about PEB that nobody else is aware of. All of them anonymous of course.

Not that I'm doubting you at all.

And guess who has been right on PEB?

Those who have not taken heed of steering clear or those who eagerly swallow whole the company’s ‘several tens of thousands of tests’?

No guesses needed on which were the brokers previously bullish on PEB - Forbar, Craigs & FNZC.

[Balance]

Outstanding logic
If he was wrong before he probably is wrong again.
Barney just wants to know who to avoid.

Simplistically, if she felt there is a future to PEB and her 770,000 options are going to be in the money soon, she would be soldering on.

Brokers and investors invest based upon their own perceptions of developments. In this case, simple logic says that Kate is bailing out just as PEB is desperately trying to find some more capital.

[barney]

It's ok to have opinions. It's another thing entirely to make up a whole lot of nonsense and pass it off as quotes.

That's just sad.

[Balance]

It's ok to have opinions. It's another thing entirely to make up a whole lot of nonsense and pass it off as quotes.

That's just sad.

Wow! Accusing a fellow poster of lying!

Sounds like that’s what you (and definitely PEB) are inclined to do all the time - reason why you suspect it of others?

I am very very comfortable with what I write - and proven to be deadly accurate about PEB now for years.

Barney - never too late to learn to sort out truths from misleading and deceitful misinformation, especially when a company wants your money.

[Minerbarejet]

Simplistically, if she felt there is a future to PEB and her 770,000 options are going to be in the money soon, she would be soldering on.

Brokers and investors invest based upon their own perceptions of developments. In this case, simple logic says that Kate is bailing out just as PEB is desperately trying to find some more capital.
You have absolutely no idea what Kates' reasons are for leaving and are merely attributing your thoughts onto her.

And as far as soldering on is concerned, things seem to be in a state of flux.

[Balance]

You have absolutely no idea what Kates' reasons are for leaving and are merely attributing your thoughts onto her.

And as far as soldering on is concerned, things seem to be in a state of flux.

Logic & simple common sense.

Something which seems to have gone missing with some posters here.

Several tens of thousands of tests?

Dodgy accounting?

Kaiser deal anytime now?

Pathetic.

[RTM]

I sold my shares in PEB sometime ago. At a considerable loss. It would have been worse if I retained them. (101c->36c)
Balances' and others contributors comments on sharetrader are one factor in making that decision.
I thank them for their comments and their continual warnings on here for new shareholders.
I would say that you ignore them at your peril.
And I really want PEB to succeed Great industry for NZ. But me keeping my shares was not going to help that.
Take care everyone. Capital needs to be looked after.
RTM

[Minerbarejet]

The logic of repeating over and over again the same " several tens of thousands of tests" allegedly stated by someone no longer in the

company and hasn't been for some time is extremely interesting.

What does this actually achieve?

It was all very melodramatic when it first came to light and I think probably most people have managed to get over it one way or the other

and it would appear to be a dead issue by now.

But without mentioning any names some people seem to be fixated with this as the framework whereby we judge the whole company five

years down the track with significant accomplishments in a very difficult biotech environment that PEB and others have all had a long hard

road to accomplish anything.

This may sound harsh to some but there seems to have been a lack of understanding of the time required, both here and with PEB, for

acceptance.

Nobody is going to walk in and takeover. Clinical proof and validity is what was lacking and that is now accumulating.

The other factor is that PEB is trying to change clinical procedure and has been successful in doing so in NZ.

This will not go unnoticed by many other organizations such as Kaiser, Johns Hopkins, and those of us still with a positive attitude look forward

to acceptance.

One might suggest that the longer that PEB goes on without a CR may be a very good indication that some funds are accruing, possibly from

some of the laggard payers now left without excuses now the prices and codes are in effect.

[Ggcc]

The logic of repeating over and over again the same " several tens of thousands of tests" allegedly stated by someone no longer in the

company and hasn't been for some time is extremely interesting.

What does this actually achieve?

It was all very melodramatic when it first came to light and I think probably most people have managed to get over it one way or the other

and it would appear to be a dead issue by now.

But without mentioning any names some people seem to be fixated with this as the framework whereby we judge the whole company five

years down the track with significant accomplishments in a very difficult biotech environment that PEB and others have all had a long hard

road to accomplish anything.

This may sound harsh to some but there seems to have been a lack of understanding of the time required, both here and with PEB, for

acceptance.

Nobody is going to walk in and takeover. Clinical proof and validity is what was lacking and that is now accumulating.

The other factor is that PEB is trying to change clinical procedure and has been successful in doing so in NZ.

This will not go unnoticed by many other organizations such as Kaiser, Johns Hopkins, and those of us still with a positive attitude look forward

to acceptance.

One might suggest that the longer that PEB goes on without a CR may be a very good indication that some funds are accruing, possibly from

some of the laggard payers now left without excuses now the prices and codes are in effect.

What the future brings for PEB we won’t find out until later and even Balance has said PEB could be an up and comer only in operation for years . Balance has mentioned on PEB’s past which has not been flash. Loads of promises and ideas, yet not fantastic financial results. At the end of the day Balance has been dead accurate with PEBs promises and ideas and the SP is showing the results.

You maybe a believer and onto a winner or not, have you made any contingencies if it becomes a not? That is a question for all shareholders not just you.

Again I thank balance for making my bad money turn into good money.

[Minerbarejet]

What the future brings for PEB we won’t find out until later and even Balance has said PEB could be an up and comer only in operation for years . Balance has mentioned on PEB’s past which has not been flash. Loads of promises and ideas, yet not fantastic financial results. At the end of the day Balance has been dead accurate with PEBs promises and ideas and the SP is showing the results.

You maybe a believer and onto a winner or not, have you made any contingencies if it becomes a not? That is a question for all shareholders not just you.

Again I thank balance for making my bad money turn into good money.

And what contingencies have you made if it suddenly becomes a winner?


Desperately trying to offload some piece of junk at a loss to get in the door during a FOMO episode which is quite on the cards.

It has happened before and was all well supported by the "legend" at the time.

Ill just sit here and wait and see what happens.

My guess is that a herd of newbies and disappointed short term punters will be screaming for PEB shares

At which point I will sell some of my 53 shares at a substantial profit of at least 3%.:)

Cant have too many eggs in one basket.

But the brokerage will make a hole in the profits.

[Balance]

The logic of repeating over and over again the same " several tens of thousands of tests" allegedly stated by someone no longer in the

company and hasn't been for some time is extremely interesting.

What does this actually achieve?

It was all very melodramatic when it first came to light and I think probably most people have managed to get over it one way or the other

and it would appear to be a dead issue by now.

But without mentioning any names some people seem to be fixated with this as the framework whereby we judge the whole company five

years down the track with significant accomplishments in a very difficult biotech environment that PEB and others have all had a long hard

road to accomplish anything.



It’s ok - I am extremely proud to be mentioned by name for continuously highlighting the pattern of deceitful and misleading behaviour by PEB.

The reason for the several tens of thousands is that it was the start of a string and pattern by this company - and they are still at it.

Prime example - heard any update on Kaiser, the great deliverer to be for PEB? Go back to the annual references to Kaiser and how PEB went completely quiet from about a year ago - no explanations and no updates.

Guess why?

[Ggcc]

It’s ok - I am extremely proud to be mentioned by name for continuously highlighting the pattern of deceitful and misleading behaviour by PEB.

The reason for the several tens of thousands is that it was the start of a string and pattern by this company - and they are still at it.

Anyone heard any update on Kaiser, the great deliverer to be for PEB? Go back to the annual references to Kaiser and how PEB went completely quiet from about a year ago - no explanations and no updates.

Guess why?
Don’t stress capital raise around the corner. We just need three massive updates in a row

[Dentie]

It’s ok - I am extremely proud to be mentioned by name for continuously highlighting the pattern of deceitful and misleading behaviour by PEB.

The reason for the several tens of thousands is that it was the start of a string and pattern by this company - and they are still at it.

Prime example - heard any update on Kaiser, the great deliverer to be for PEB? Go back to the annual references to Kaiser and how PEB went completely quiet from about a year ago - no explanations and no updates.

Guess why?

You've repeatedly (in a tedious manner!) extolled yourself and taken the credit for influencing holders to either sell their PEB stock or, preventing prospective holders from gaining a position. Some of these disciples happily confirm they have been influenced by your negative ravings - which, to my mind, is tantamount to providing online financial advice.

I don't remember reading - as part of any of your "advisory" type of posts - any disclaimer from you, advising these people to "do their own research".

Part of such research is to put PEB into proper investment context. For example, PEB is (was, at that time) a startup/fledgling Biotech company with breakthrough products. That means, by default, they have a totally different RISK profile than, say, Mainfreight, Ryman or the Utilities.

When you apply the risk profile of a (boring) well established blue chip company to an (exciting) startup/fledgling Biotech - it is expected for the Biotech to appear as unattractive. However, when you consider EVERYTHING, the risk vs reward ratio makes the punt into the Biotech too good to pass up - and, naturally, only with dosh you can afford to lose.

Given ALL the above, I am a little surprised as to why some are even considering playing in the PEB space. I think you should take them all by the hand and lead them back to the (apparent?) safety of the blue chips. Actually, maybe the bond market would be safer....:eek2:.

[Drew95]

US Clinical Review Reinforces Need for Cxbladder in Hematuria Guidelines
The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) has published a clinical review paper highlighting the need for safer, non-invasive and accurate diagnostic tests and procedures for the detection and management of bladder cancer that can help lower the need for, and impact on patients, from radiation based imaging.


This study, co-authored by Kaiser Permanente, Geisinger Health and other leading healthcare institutions in the USA, compared the harms, advantages and costs associated with five different sets of national or local guidelines for the evaluation of patients presenting to the clinic with hematuria for evaluation for bladder cancer: Dutch, Canadian Urological Association (CUA), Kaiser Permanente (KP), Hematuria Risk Index (HRI), and American Urological Association (AUA).


The review clearly shows that a need exists for safer, non-invasive and accurate diagnostic tests and procedures for the detection and management of bladder cancer that can help lower the need for CT imaging, says Pacific Edge CEO Dave Darling. "The Cxbladder suite of non-invasive diagnostic tests, with their accurate rule-out of patients, who do not have bladder cancer, provides urologists with an opportunity to address the significant shortcomings, highlighted in this study, of the current AUA guidelines for the evaluation of patients with hematuria."


The authors of the review simulated the effect of using each set of guidelines on 100,000 patients to determine detection rates and cost effectiveness, along with the potential to produce co-morbidities including new cancers. The guidelines vary considerably in the intensity and number of options used in the clinical evaluation of hematuria, particularly with regard to the use of computed tomography (CT) scans, which are expensive and carry potential harms associated with radiation exposure. Under the Dutch and CUA guidelines, patients undergo cystoscopy and ultrasonography if they are 50 years or older (Dutch) or 40 years or older (CUA). Under the KP and HRI guidelines, patients receive different combinations of cystoscopy, ultrasonography, CT urography, or no evaluation, with the choice based on risk factors. Under the AUA guidelines, all patients 35 years or older receive cystoscopy and CT urography.


Of the 100,000 patient simulations, a total of 3,514 patients had urinary tract cancers (estimated prevalence, 3.5%; 95% CI, 3.0%–4.0%). The AUA guidelines missed the fewest number of cancers (82 [2.3%]) compared with the other guidelines: the missed detection rate was 116 [3.3%] with the HRI, 130 [3.7%] with KP, 172 [4.9%] with CUA and 251 [7.1%] with Dutch guidelines. However, the simulation model estimated that radiation-induced cancers would develop in 108 (95% CI, 34–201) per 100,000 patients under the KP guidelines, 136 (95% CI, 62–229) under the HRI guidelines, and 575 (95% CI, 184–1,069) under the AUA guidelines. Although the CUA and Dutch guidelines missed detection of a larger number of cancers, there were no radiation-induced secondary cancers with these protocols. The cost of hematuria evaluation using the AUA guidelines ($939/person) was approximately double the cost of using any of the other 4 guidelines (e.g. $443/person for Dutch guidelines), and the incremental cost was $1,034,374 per urinary tract cancer detected compared with that of the HRI guidelines.

Conclusion
For patients with hematuria requiring evaluation for bladder cancer, the more rigorous guidelines cost significantly more, with marginal gains in the number of tumors identified. Guidelines with extensive use of CT imaging were associated with increased costs and harms of secondary cancers, procedural complications, and false positives, with only a marginal increase in cancer detection. The authors state; “the balance of harms, advantages, and costs of hematuria evaluation may be optimized with risk stratification and more selective application of diagnostic testing in general and CT imaging in particular.” The most extensive/aggressive clinical guidelines (AUA) when compared with the most conservative identify the highest number of cancer cases but at a cost of incurring the highest number of new radiation-induced cancer cases. The AUA guidelines generated 5.3-times more radiation induced cancers than the KP guidelines. (575 vs 108).

[Minerbarejet]

It’s ok - I am extremely proud to be mentioned by name for continuously highlighting the pattern of deceitful and misleading behaviour by PEB.

The reason for the several tens of thousands is that it was the start of a string and pattern by this company - and they are still at it.

Prime example - heard any update on Kaiser, the great deliverer to be for PEB? Go back to the annual references to Kaiser and how PEB went completely quiet from about a year ago - no explanations and no updates.

Guess why?

Dont have to guess.
Here is why.

https://mailchi.mp/pelnz/us-clinical-review-reinforces-need-for-cxbladder?e=7af75b8630

They have been busy getting the facts of the whole issue.

[davflaws]

Dont have to guess.
Here is why.

https://mailchi.mp/pelnz/us-clinical-review-reinforces-need-for-cxbladder?e=7af75b8630

They have been busy getting the facts of the whole issue.

So why can't I find any reference to Cx Bladder in the article?

[Minerbarejet]

No direct reference that I can see either but it does say "safer, non-invasive and accurate diagnostic tests".

Cx Bladder qualifies on all three counts.

Its a bit like the inclusion in the NCCN guidelines earlier as " Urine tumor marker testing" "Your doctor may consider doing this testing in the first 2 years after treatment"

Cx Bladder again qualifies as a Urine tumor marker test

[Drew95]

Dont have to guess. Here is why. https://mailchi.mp/pelnz/us-clinical-review-reinforces-need-for-cxbladder?e=7af75b8630 They have been busy getting the facts of the whole issue.


I have been thinking about this and trying to evaluate the dribbles of information that we get from time to time, in a rational manner, as far as that is possible.

Here is my logic - if a substantial org in the health sector is to adopt new technology, I would assume 2 conditions would need to be met in order to get it across the line

1. Significant falsifiable evidence that the existing tech is not up to scratch (IE could be improved upon)
2. Significant falsifiable evidence that there is an alternative tech which is measurably, and cost effectively better

If we can agree that #2 has been shown to be true in the case of CX bladder, then said orgs would then need to fulfill the first condition, prior to the adoption of the new tech.

My re-reading several times of this release suggests to me that the first condition has now also been met by this study - a study that was possibly conducted in direct response to the evidence already provided regarding #2.

Conclusion - I agree with the statement 'All this time they have been busy getting their facts'.

Its as much fun as watching grass grow in slow motion though :D:D

DISC: Holder, accumulator.

[Minerbarejet]

Good analysis Drew

Item 2 I would add safer as well.

A study that finds the existing tech in some instances is creating other cancers as well as locating the originals has to be pinpointing a serious shortcoming.

Agree with the glacial pace but given the size of the study much work has gone into it.

Its a great shame the Study participants (Kaiser et al) were unable to adhere to time frames set out for them by unconnected invisible third parties in remote countries.:)

[davflaws]

I am sure Balance will shortly disabuse any of us who are foolish enough to believe the quoted paper is grounds for hope.

[Drew95]

I am sure Balance will shortly disabuse any of us who are foolish enough to believe the quoted paper is grounds for hope.


'In the absence on information, people make up their own facts.' I suppose I had better plead guilty.

Its getting to be a bit like a suspense thriller - I just want to turn to the last page and see how it ends! :mad ;:

[trader_jackson]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/333560
Announced April he was joining

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/342056
He leaves 5 months later, holding 900k shares.

Whats going on?

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/333560
Announced April he was joining

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/342056
He leaves 5 months later, holding 900k shares.

Whats going on?

Dunno but not a good look.....

[Leftfield]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/333560
Announced April he was joining
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/342056
He leaves 5 months later, holding 900k shares.

Whats going on?

Not looking good..... particularly along with the following.


Crikey! The CFO has ruled out growing PEB into a larger organisation....

"Pacific Edge Limited advises that Kate Rankin has resigned as Chief Financial
Officer with effect from 19th December 2019, to take up an opportunity with a
larger organisation."

Details here (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/341222)

Bad news comes in three's....2 down. What's next?

[percy]

Taken in conjunction with the CFO's recent resignation it looks very bad.

[winner69]

Taken in conjunction with the CFO's recent resignation it looks very bad.

Rumour has it the CFO got bored with counting so few beans ....finished by morning smoko

Offered to go out into the lab to do some tests but most days there wasn’t any to be done

[percy]

Rumour has it the CFO got bored with counting so few beans ....finished by morning smoko

Offered to go out into the lab to do some tests but most days there wasn’t any to be done

Looks as though you have taken over the mantle for spiteful PEB posts from Balance.lol..

[Xerof]

Duncan was a square peg in a round hole - he's one of George Cur's 'mates'.......and he can sell his holdings anytime without notification to the market as he is no longer required to report

[bottomfeeder]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's

[Dentie]

Might be a good move - his skills as a purported M&A expert isn't now going to be needed.

Time will tell...

[Dentie]

Rumour has it the CFO got bored with counting so few beans ....finished by morning smoko

Offered to go out into the lab to do some tests but most days there wasn’t any to be done

Well, I remember having a decent chat with Kate at an AGM not long after she joined and I remember commenting to my wife (who was also present at the time) that she came across as a typical "boring" Accountant. Not wanting to upset any Accountant's - just being honest!

[Snow Leopard]

Well, I remember having a decent chat with Kate at an AGM not long after she joined and I remember commenting to my wife (who was also present at the time) that she came across as a typical "boring" Accountant. Not wanting to upset any Accountant's - just being honest!

Recommended viewing if you are not an accountant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAOQH4xEyhM

[Tsuba]

I know someone who is pretty good at numbers especially when there are 10's of thousands of them.
:eek2:

[Dentie]

Rumour has it the CFO got bored with counting so few beans ....finished by morning smoko

Offered to go out into the lab to do some tests but most days there wasn’t any to be done

Apologies for my previous post Winner ;)...on second thoughts, you were probably referring to the assumption there are a lot of Accountants who get bored now - due to "counting so few beans".

A large number of them keenly assisted Xero in becoming a corporate star and, probably unwittingly (maybe unknowingly?), effectively created the partial demise of their own profession. I suspect a lot of the bored ones have already left for greener pastures. The ones who are left seem to be diversifying into business advisers, financial consultants and the like.

[kiwidollabill]

Apologies for my previous post Winner ;)...on second thoughts, you were probably referring to the assumption there are a lot of Accountants who get bored now - due to "counting so few beans".

A large number of them keenly assisted Xero in becoming a corporate star and, probably unwittingly (maybe unknowingly?), effectively created the partial demise of their own profession. I suspect a lot of the bored ones have already left for greener pastures. The ones who are left seem to be diversifying into business advisers, financial consultants and the like.

Yep, accountants *think* they can do everything these days....

Then there are the lawyers....

[Dentie]

Yep, accountants *think* they can do everything these days....

Then there are the lawyers....

Ha ha ha...we are on the same page here Kiwi. :scared:

Actually, if I had followed the advice of both my lawyer and Accountant (at the time!)...my company would have been forced into liquidation. Thankfully, I followed my own knowledge.

[percy]

Ha ha ha...we are on the same page here Kiwi. :scared:

Actually, if I had followed the advice of both my lawyer and Accountant (at the time!)...my company would have been forced into liquidation. Thankfully, I followed my own knowledge.

I have had an excellent accountant for 46 years.
I changed lawyers after a leading large ChCh legal firm "advised" me to get them to organise a new lease on the shop my bookshop was a tenant,then to assign the lease to the person I was selling the business to.Offcourse I told the buyer to get his own lawyer to arrange his own lease.,.

[Drew95]

"Pacific Edge Limited advises that John Duncan has notified the Board of his resignation as a Director of the company, effective immediately.The Board thanks John for his service and wishes him well. John remains a supportive shareholder in the company."

So pushed or jumped after just 5 months? I've been thinking about this for several days. Its not a good look if he jumped of course.

The terse nature of the announcement, and the immediacy of the 'resignation' tends to suggest the parting was not an amicable one, and there was some pushing involved? You say that you are remain a supportive shareholder and we won't say that you weren't fired??

Thoughts???

DISC: A biased holder.

[percy]

My guess is he came onto the board,with "fresh ideas", which were rejected,by the existing board and management,so resigned.
With his financial background,and also CFO resigning,it very much looks as though PEB's financial position and out look did not meet their liking.
So not one RED flag,but two.
.

[Ggcc]

My guess is he came onto the board,with "fresh ideas", which were rejected,by the existing board and management,so resigned.
With his financial background,and also CFO resigning,it very much looks as though PEB's financial position and out look did not meet their liking.
So not one RED flag,but two.
.
Are we all saying that Balance may have been correct from the beginning........... no way. I think for him not two red flags, but they ran out of red flags. In fact they probably have more red flags than sales...... hehe

[percy]

Are we all saying that Balance may have been correct from the beginning........... no way. I think for him not two red flags, but they ran out of red flags. In fact they probably have more red flags than sales...... hehe

Agree more red flags than sales.

[whatsup]

IMHO PEB is one stock that you cannot afford to be out of as "IF' there is massive demand for its products the S P will rocket to over $$$'s , just when that will happen we all ( and Im including management in this ) do not know as that decision is out of its hands at this stage, all they can do is supply the product and information to any possible purchasers and all we can do is keep funding as and when that is required.

How long will that take is anyones guess including the fish heads at the top table.

[kiwidollabill]

The hard reality is that the pivot needed to survive would require going out and saying the business is overvalued.

They get out of the business of being a lab/direct sales and just license/sell the CXbladder test kits to Quest Diagnostics - 5% of a big number is still a big number....

Either PEB do this or the people who buy the crumbs when they cant raise more capital do this.... but the outcome is similar...

An exec team and board who had experience in this market would have done this in the mid 2000s...

[Balance]

Little doubt imo that PEB is in the midst of doing a CR. To lose CFO & a director with investment banking credentials - end game is near.

[davflaws]

Thank you. That is a useful opinion. So how does the end game go?

[whatsup]

Thank you. That is a useful opinion. So how does the end game go?

dav, do not listen to Bal, he is always doom and gloom, the instos will always front up for any C R always have and always will as the upside for Biotechs is 10 fold when and if it comes, they know how the game is played in the U S it can be 10 - 20 years for all of the approvals to be granted , they recgonise, realise and WHEN they go bingo, who would want to miss out on a 10-20 bagger after holding for 10 years !!

[Dentie]

dav, do not listen to Bal, he is always doom and gloom, the instos will always front up for any C R always have and always will as the upside for Biotechs is 10 fold when and if it comes, they know how the game is played in the U S it can be 10 - 20 years for all of the approvals to be granted , they recgonise, realise and WHEN they go bingo, who would want to miss out on a 10-20 bagger after holding for 10 years !!

I tend to agree. Unfortunately, I suspect Balance has lost a bit of objectivity over the years and for him (her?) it has become a personal crusade....most probably due to over indulging when Swanny blurted the "10's of 1,000's of tests" line...and then deciding to crystalise his (her?) losses.

I just think it is safer and more prudent not to necessarily analyse the certain details of a start up biotech in the way you would analyse those same details in a well established blue chip company.

[kiwidollabill]

dav, do not listen to Bal, he is always doom and gloom, the instos will always front up for any C R always have and always will as the upside for Biotechs is 10 fold when and if it comes, they know how the game is played in the U S it can be 10 - 20 years for all of the approvals to be granted , they recgonise, realise and WHEN they go bingo, who would want to miss out on a 10-20 bagger after holding for 10 years !!

Maybe they should go seek some funds from Softbank.... they know how to pick em.....

[Balance]

I tend to agree. Unfortunately, I suspect Balance has lost a bit of objectivity over the years and for him (her?) it has become a personal crusade....most probably due to over indulging when Swanny blurted the "10's of 1,000's of tests" line...and then deciding to crystalise his (her?) losses.

I just think it is safer and more prudent not to necessarily analyse the certain details of a start up biotech in the way you would analyse those same details in a well established blue chip company.

Rubbish.

Anyone following this thread will know I sold out profitably.

And anyone who decided to bail out after realising the deceitful ways of the company (where do we begin?) has saved himself/herself a lot of grief.

And here’s the beautiful part - if they are so inclined, they can buy back now to obtain several multiple of the shares they sold!

Meanwhile, the holders are defending the deceitful ways of the company to justify their folly! How pathetic is that? !!! ?

[Balance]

Thank you. That is a useful opinion. So how does the end game go?

CFO and director with investment banking expertise resign (one abruptly and with immediate effect) during the midst of a capital raising (imo) - endgame will not be positive for shareholders.

Recall what PEB said when John Duncan was appointed as a director?

Well, everything has changed within the last 48 hours seemingly.

[Balance]

dav, do not listen to Bal, he is always doom and gloom, the instos will always front up for any C R always have and always will as the upside for Biotechs is 10 fold when and if it comes, they know how the game is played in the U S it can be 10 - 20 years for all of the approvals to be granted , they recgonise, realise and WHEN they go bingo, who would want to miss out on a 10-20 bagger after holding for 10 years !!

Classic greed and hope at play.

10-20 years? Then we all know that PEB’s management are totally and completely clueless and incompetent in the commercialisation strategy!

And there are those here who still think it’s all the fault of others!

[davflaws]

CFO and director with investment banking expertise resign (one abruptly and with immediate effect) during the midst of a capital raising (imo) - endgame will not be positive for shareholders.

Recall what PEB said when John Duncan was appointed as a director?


Well, everything has changed within the last 48 hours seemingly.

I understand why you think we are approaching the endgame (or in it), but what I would like to know is what you think will happen next, and what happens after that .... and so on.

You are clearly very experienced and have seen the "end game" before. I haven't. So it would be useful for me to understand what the "end game" consists of. What do you think will happen?

[RTM]

Holders....and I was for a while. Here is my perspective for what it is worth.
PEB have been going at it for too long without much success. Technology will have moved on and when this type of test is adopted....it is unlikely to be PEB’s variant.

There are a lot of decisions in the USA made around liability, it is a litigious society. With PEB, if something goes wrong, there is no large company for their customers to sue. No JnJ or Roche. This will put off potential customers. They don’t want to deal with a small start up NZ company going from cash raise to cash raise.

I think the best holders can hope for is that someone buys the company. But it’s been to long for that. And getting longer. So unlikely.

Anyway...that’s why I decided to exit. To preserve what capital I had left.

I’ll be pleased to be wrong, but am not hopeful.

[bottomfeeder]

Dont give up bal, dogged determination to save people losing their shirts on this one may not earn you a knighthood though.

When shareholders decide enough cr is enough, there will be someone offering peanuts to takeover peb, even if it is only to get this thorn from their side.

[Dentie]

There are a lot of decisions in the USA made around liability, it is a litigious society. With PEB, if something goes wrong, there is no large company for their customers to sue. No JnJ or Roche. This will put off potential customers. They don’t want to deal with a small start up NZ company going from cash raise to cash raise.

And those few sentences there clearly demonstrate what such a sad and unfortunate society the mighty US of A has become. Their society can be likened to most of the charts that Technical Analysts stare at ... and that is the problem ... they lag behind! The benefit PEB's Cx Bladder offers is too futuristic for their society to get their heads around - especially when all they seem to be worried about is "who do we sue if something goes wrong?".

In the meantime, their poor suffering population suffers unnecessarily...

Actually, if something went wrong wouldn't they just put a tariff on NZ?

[Balance]

And those few sentences there clearly demonstrate what such a sad and unfortunate society the mighty US of A has become. Their society can be likened to most of the charts that Technical Analysts stare at ... and that is the problem ... they lag behind! The benefit PEB's Cx Bladder offers is too futuristic for their society to get their heads around - especially when all they seem to be worried about is "who do we sue if something goes wrong?".

In the meantime, their poor suffering population suffers unnecessarily...

Actually, if something went wrong wouldn't they just put a tariff on NZ?

We cannot influence or control the USA litigious environment - we can only assess how companies approach that environment with their business strategies and then, invest wisely.

PEB’s strategy of a full blown assault, utilising year on year never ending capital raising with promises, on that market (full complement of staff especially in sales & marketing) before they receive approval shows how incompetent and commercially shallow the management were/are.

Endgame is unfolding even as we see the sp head towards 10c.

[Balance]

I understand why you think we are approaching the endgame (or in it), but what I would like to know is what you think will happen next, and what happens after that .... and so on.

You are clearly very experienced and have seen the "end game" before. I haven't. So it would be useful for me to understand what the "end game" consists of. What do you think will happen?

I believe RTM gave a fair assessment of what the endgame looks like.

When John Duncan (with his chequered history with PGC) decided to bail out of PEB, it is clear imo that he sees the writing on the wall and does not want to be associated with yet another corporate mishap on his record.

[davflaws]

I believe RTM gave a fair assessment of what the endgame looks like.

When John Duncan (with his chequered history with PGC) decided to bail out of PEB, it is clear imo that he sees the writing on the wall and does not want to be associated with yet another corporate mishap on his record.

RTM (like you) sees all sorts of reasons why CxBladder will not be adopted as standard practice and so why PEB will not ever sell millions of tests each year. I get that. You believe that this time instos will refuse to buy more equity when PEB runs out of cash.

But what happens next and how will we know it is happening or about to happen? And what happens after that?

[bottomfeeder]

It will be the same as Wynyard. An announcement will be that major shareholders will no longer fund the company. Then everyone will look to themselves and think, we should have seen that coming.

[Ggcc]

It will be the same as Wynyard. An announcement will be that major shareholders will no longer fund the company. Then everyone will look to themselves and think, we should have seen that coming.
My thoughts exactly. That is how dumb I felt when it happened to me. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice........... Well you know the answer

[Balance]

It will be the same as Wynyard. An announcement will be that major shareholders will no longer fund the company. Then everyone will look to themselves and think, we should have seen that coming.

That is one scenario.

Another is that PEB closes down the US operations to stem the bleeding obvious, retrench back to NZ & Oz and become a small company - maybe worth maybe 10c per share.

[davflaws]

It will be the same as Wynyard. An announcement will be that major shareholders will no longer fund the company. Then everyone will look to themselves and think, we should have seen that coming.

And what will happen then?

[davflaws]

That is one scenario.

Another is that PEB closes down the US operations to stem the bleeding obvious, retrench back to NZ & Oz and become a small company - maybe worth maybe 10c per share.

Thank you. That is informative and useful. Will that retrenchment enable a further capital raise?

[Balance]

Thank you. That is informative and useful. Will that retrenchment enable a further capital raise?

Game over.

No need for a further capital raise as PEB will be marginally profitable with the exit of the highly paid executives (especially in the US), the termination and cessation of the high operating costs in the US and of course, the travel expenses of the executives.

[RTM]

And those few sentences there clearly demonstrate what such a sad and unfortunate society the mighty US of A has become. Their society can be likened to most of the charts that Technical Analysts stare at ... and that is the problem ... they lag behind! The benefit PEB's Cx Bladder offers is too futuristic for their society to get their heads around - especially when all they seem to be worried about is "who do we sue if something goes wrong?".

In the meantime, their poor suffering population suffers unnecessarily...

Actually, if something went wrong wouldn't they just put a tariff on NZ?

I'm not sure that is entirely true, although I understand what you are saying. If I was going to build a new house..I would try to go to a well established builder who has been in the business a long time, who has not disappeared at the first sign of trouble and would be there if there were any issues found with the work done down the track.

No....I don't think it would be a tariff issue at all.

[Ggcc]

So at 19 cents who is ready for the next capital raise??? Balance you must be ready with your wallet???

[Balance]

So at 19 cents who is ready for the next capital raise??? Balance you must be ready with your wallet???

Yup - with the value of shares I sold at a huge multiple to 19c, I reckon I will be able soon to buy back at least 4 or 5 times the holding I sold - if I am so inclined.

Meanwhile, those who swallowed the tales of 'several tens of thousands of tests' several times over & dodgy accounting of sales will soon get the opportunity to (yet again) put in more funds to support yet more user programs and the salaries of the highly paid marketing & promotion EVPs, SVPs and VPs iin the USA - who have sold bugger all but user programs.

[kiwidollabill]

My feeling a 'retrenchment' will be to change the business model, same to what I described a few pages back, they form an outsourcing agreement to Quest/LabCorp and just collect the royalties. The US lab will be shut down, most of the commercial team made redundant, but more of a chance to be cash +ve and may grow steadily with a US partner. If they cant raise more cash on the current story their hand may be forced to do this or call in the liquidators.

I would really be astonished if an oursourced strategy hasn't even been considered at PEB.....

[Nigelk]

Just sold the last of my PEB shares. Pleased to be out of this intact. I even made a little bit.
This is not a $100M company

[Sideshow Bob]

Just sold the last of my PEB shares. Pleased to be out of this intact. I even made a little bit.
This is not a $100M company

You'll miss out in the opportunity to participate in the next capital raising!!

Must be just about due...… ;)

[Balance]

Have a look at the Serko thread and see how a properly run and well managed company raises capital (at ever increasing issue prices - 84c, $2.75 and $4.04) to fund its growth.

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9169-Serko/page69

Weep, remaining PEB shareholders - for you have been sucked in by an illusion company promising US$100m revenues and 'several tens of thousands of tests' - year after year for the last 5 years!

A company which will shortly be asking you for yet more money to fulfill its 'promise'!

[Balance]

You'll miss out in the opportunity to participate in the next capital raising!!

Must be just about due...… ;)

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/343493/310899.pdf

Things must be getting desperate - poor staff now given ever decreasing value PEB shares at 20c in lieu of bonus!

They must be chomping at the bits to participate in the next capital raise? :t_down:

[winner69]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/343493/310899.pdf

Things must be getting desperate - poor staff now given ever decreasing value PEB shares at 20c in lieu of bonus!

They must be chomping at the bits to participate in the next capital raise? :t_down:

Helps the cash flow eh balance

[Balance]

Helps the cash flow eh balance

Not according to PEB and PEB's 'soon-to-be-underwriting-yet-another-capital-raising' institutional shareholders - they declare the bonus shares as a huge vote of confidence by executives who readily accept the shares-in-lieu of cash!

Same directors and CEO who never fronts up with their dues when the company raises capital!

[whatsup]

Getting lower by the day must be time for a tin rattle,., + +DAM !!!

[Balance]

Getting lower by the day must be time for a tin rattle,., + +DAM !!!

https://youtu.be/l22dGvbyYs8

CFO & the director with investment/finance banking experience leaving within weeks of each other - any day now!

[winner69]

Getting lower by the day must be time for a tin rattle,., + +DAM !!!

Fund managers to Dave ‘Dave, time for a couple of announcements. Doesn’t really matter what they say as long as they are really positive, even if you have to repeat something’

Half year out at end of month

[BigBob]

Fund managers to Dave ‘Dave, time for a couple of announcements. Doesn’t really matter what they say as long as they are really positive, even if you have to repeat something’

Half year out at end of month

LOL... This arrived in my inbox about an hour after your post...:

Presentation from Leading US Urologist, Dr Sia Daneshmand, on the Use of Cxbladder

Leading U.S. based urologist, Dr Sia Daneshmand, recently hosted a video lecture on UroToday (www.urotoday.com), on the role of Cxbladder in enabling physicians to adjudicate atypical or inconclusive cystoscopy results.

The lecture was based on a published paper, titled “Evaluation of Cxbladder and Adjudication of Atypical Cytology and Equivocal Cystocopy”, which validated the performance of Cxbladder in correctly adjudicating all patients diagnosed with urothelial cancer(1) (UC) among those with atypical cytology and equivocal cystoscopy.

Peer reviewed, published papers, particularly those that provide evidence of new technologies which enable significant shifts in clinical utility, are the cornerstone to adoption of new medical technology. Presentation of the findings by respected Key Opinion Leaders in the U.S., such as Dr Daneshmand, further enhance Cxbladder’s clinical acceptance.

Etc etc etc blah blah blah....

[Balance]

Fund managers to Dave ‘Dave, time for a couple of announcements. Doesn’t really matter what they say as long as they are really positive, even if you have to repeat something’

Half year out at end of month

Poor Dave - running out of market worthy news and ideas so let’s regurgitate some of old news.

For all the positive clinical reviews etc etc, Dave is still well short of ‘several tens of thousands of tests’ promised to be sold in 2004.

Nothing is going to help now except a real announcement as the cash time bomb accelerates its ticking towards zero ..... tick tick .... BOOM! :eek2:

[Minerbarejet]

Poor Dave - running out of market worthy news and ideas so let’s regurgitate some of old news.

For all the positive clinical reviews etc etc, Dave is still well short of ‘several tens of thousands of tests’ promised to be sold in 2004.

Nothing is going to help now except a real announcement as the cash time bomb accelerates its ticking towards zero ..... tick tick .... BOOM! :eek2:

Really? 2004? My how time flies.:ohmy:

[Schrodinger]

Only $95M more till $100M, team =)

[CatO'Tonic]

Almost there... not sales but capital raisings:
"Between 2013 and 2018 Pacific Edge has been back to shareholders for cash injections at least seven times, and has now raised more than $99 million."
- https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-raises-5-million-shareholder-plan
Always reminds me of this classic: https://deadhomersociety.com/2015/03/20/quote-of-the-day-2191/

[Balance]

Almost there... not sales but capital raisings:
"Between 2013 and 2018 Pacific Edge has been back to shareholders for cash injections at least seven times, and has now raised more than $99 million."
- https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-raises-5-million-shareholder-plan
Always reminds me of this classic: https://deadhomersociety.com/2015/03/20/quote-of-the-day-2191/

Yes, just $1m more and PEB hits the $100m mark!

So unfortunate it is the wrong $100m mark.

Sp is at 18c offer.

Tick ... tick .... :scared:

[winner69]

Yes, just $1m more and PEB hits the $100m mark!

So unfortunate it is the wrong $100m mark.

Sp is at 18c offer.

Tick ... tick .... :scared:

One day it’ll take off

I fondly remember giving them real cash in a rights issue to get shares for around 50 cents when the prevailing share price was $1.20 odd and then selling around $1.50

Because I’ve actually donated real cash to the cause (not just buying somebody’s shares) I fell I’m entitled to comment on this company which I have helped build.

[Sideshow Bob]

Southern DHB won't take up the FREE offer...…

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dhb-cancer-test-stance-queried

[Balance]

Southern DHB won't take up the FREE offer...…

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dhb-cancer-test-stance-queried

Basic! PEB cannot even provide SDHB with the 'evidence' required and it is going all around the States trying to promote the product!

Just because it is free does not negate the requirement for basic due diligence and caution by health authorities - one would have thought that PEB knows better.

Excerpt :

''Pacific Edge have approached us in the past and the urology service has promoted the idea. To make this investigation suitable for funding by the public health system there needs to be evidence presented of safety, effectiveness and value for money and this was not provided at that time.''

Oh well, it's back to tick .... tick ....

Boom soon?

[bottomfeeder]

If you only arrived on earth today and looked at the efficacy of CX bladder, you might come to the conclusion it doesnt even work. After so many years in the public arena, you would think that they would have many peer reviewed scientific studies available to promote their product. Sounds like Wynyard all over again. As with Wynyard, the users were coming to the conclusion that better alternative price/efficacy products were available.

[Balance]

If you only arrived on earth today and looked at the efficacy of CX bladder, you might come to the conclusion it doesnt even work. After so many years in the public arena, you would think that they would have many peer reviewed scientific studies available to promote their product. Sounds like Wynyard all over again. As with Wynyard, the users were coming to the conclusion that better alternative price/efficacy products were available.

A big red flag has just been waved by PEB if you ever want to see one.

David Darling going public about the SDHB not using their product (because it is free????) to try and apply public pressure - to find the rebuttal from the SDHB that PEB does/did not have its act together - what the heck are the executives paid millions of dollars a year in salaries doing or have been doing????

Why did PEB not simply provide the information required by the SDHB? It cannot be that hard!

One would have thought after 5 years of commercialization and spending tens of millions of dollars (and tens of thousands of free tests), PEB would have the full package of information, clinical test results, evidence, testimonials etc etc to provide in a matter of hours!

PEB - bunch of amateurs let loose with $99m and showing themselves to be the incompetent idiots that they are.

[Arthur]

The going public is a strange thing for PEB. There have been major issues at this DHB and their running of urology. I suspect that the reason the DHB are refusing to allow the test to be used "for free" is that it would show even more incompetence at the managerial level. People have already died while on the waiting lists, the test may well highlight that they have missed several others. Compared to some of the DHB management, PEB, for all of their faults, appear to be managerial genius.

[enzed staffy]

The going public is a strange thing for PEB. There have been major issues at this DHB and their running of urology. I suspect that the reason the DHB are refusing to allow the test to be used "for free" is that it would show even more incompetence at the managerial level. People have already died while on the waiting lists, the test may well highlight that they have missed several others. Compared to some of the DHB management, PEB, for all of their faults, appear to be managerial genius.

Can you statements be factually backed up?
Cx bladder was offered and refused by this dhb well before the urology staffing crisis in which the public suffered . Cx bladder may identify TCC cancer markers but there are many other causes of the presenting symptoms ie haematuria, and these need proper investigation with tests (including cystoscopy) that "beat" cx bladder as the gold standard. As stated a lack of satisfactory research has been presented.

Monitoring for recurrence is another proposed use for the test - again out ranked by 6 monthly cystoscopy.
Free or not it not a miracle cure and what happens after the freebies when the company then starts to charge? the average jo public is not going accept that and neither is the govt going to give you extra funding for it. So where should the money for the tests be taken from? Hips? Dementia?

Im not defending management but there is more to the problems of a public health service than poor management and complaints aired in the somewhat biased media- Im sorry but your statements demonstrate complete ignorance.

disc- bought 28c long time ago, sold 1.20, never going back

[barney]

Basic! PEB cannot even provide SDHB with the 'evidence' required and it is going all around the States trying to promote the product!

Just because it is free does not negate the requirement for basic due diligence and caution by health authorities - one would have thought that PEB knows better.

Excerpt :

''Pacific Edge have approached us in the past and the urology service has promoted the idea. To make this investigation suitable for funding by the public health system there needs to be evidence presented of safety, effectiveness and value for money and this was not provided at that time.''

Oh well, it's back to tick .... tick ....

Boom soon?

Come on now Balance. You know what happened last time you read a quote in the ODT about PEB and thought it was the gospel truth.

[Balance]

Come on now Balance. You know what happened last time you read a quote in the ODT about PEB and thought it was the gospel truth.

LOL - PEB had every opportunity over 5 years to correct any misquotes, given how ODT (until recently times) basically dotted on PEB. Why did PEB not correct?

Could it be because it was the gospel truth?

Irrespective, it was convenient for the sp to go up on the back of that and other positive news and history records that sale of shares were undertaken by the Chairman and CEO subsequently.

But let’s see whether and how PEB responds to this article, shall we?

The SDHB has answered why it turned down PEB’s offer of free tests. Next move - PEB.

Waiting with baited breath to see if PEB has actually learnt anything from the last 5 years, burning through $99m.

[Dentie]

Can you statements be factually backed up?
Cx bladder was offered and refused by this dhb well before the urology staffing crisis in which the public suffered . Cx bladder may identify TCC cancer markers but there are many other causes of the presenting symptoms ie haematuria, and these need proper investigation with tests (including cystoscopy) that "beat" cx bladder as the gold standard. As stated a lack of satisfactory research has been presented.

Monitoring for recurrence is another proposed use for the test - again out ranked by 6 monthly cystoscopy.
Free or not it not a miracle cure and what happens after the freebies when the company then starts to charge? the average jo public is not going accept that and neither is the govt going to give you extra funding for it. So where should the money for the tests be taken from? Hips? Dementia?

Im not defending management but there is more to the problems of a public health service than poor management and complaints aired in the somewhat biased media- Im sorry but your statements demonstrate complete ignorance.

disc- bought 28c long time ago, sold 1.20, never going back

Now come on Staffy... Here's an excerpt from an announcement on Nov 8th, 2018...

"Capital & Coast is the latest in a rapidly expanding list of New Zealand public healthcare providers to incorporate Cxbladder into their clinical pathways for urology services. Capital & Coast joins the recent signing of public healthcare providers Counties Manukau and Tairawhiti DHBs who have signed agreements within the last quarter. These new commercial users join the existing public healthcare providers in Canterbury, Bay Of Plenty/Lakes, MidCentral and Waitemata in their use of Cxbladder bringing the total coverage of New Zealand’s population under contract to more than 60%".

So why would Southern DHB want to be the "odd one out"? Is Mr Nigel Millar suggesting these other DHB's are all wrong? Do you think all these other DHB's would have asked for "evidence presented of safety, effectiveness and value for money" ?

Assuming they are not the arrogant ones thinking they know better than CxBladder itself and maybe they don't have the funds - why wouldn't you at least offer it to your patients and they pay for it? After all, you would normally put your patients best interests ahead of your own wouldn't you?

Nope - I would suggest there is something else going on. Just a basic bit of research on them tells me a lot - they look to be in a bit of disarray. Current Minister of Health's own territory too. I can see why DD can't be bothered with them.

[Carpenterjoe]

Southern DHB won't take up the FREE offer...…

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dhb-cancer-test-stance-queried

''Pacific Edge have approached us in the past and the urology service has promoted the idea.
''To make this investigation suitable for funding by the public health system there needs to be evidence presented of safety, effectiveness and value for money and this was not provided at that time.''

Now they have proof of VALUE, effectiveness and safety. I suspect a little public pressure should help things. SDHB is not a great health organisation, but I do not have time or energy to provide more information on this statement.

[Dentie]

I think it is as simple as looking at SHDHB's latest accounts.

Was going to list the problems but frankly too long a list! "Broke" would sum it up. In fact, if I was the CEO or CFO, I'd resign!

But - I suppose it is easy when you are dealing with taxpayer dollars.

In the end, I'm glad my DHB is able to fund CxBladder. I genuinely feel sorry for those poor buggers down south if they get Haematuria.

[Balance]

Nope - I would suggest there is something else going on. Just a basic bit of research on them tells me a lot - they look to be in a bit of disarray. Current Minister of Health's own territory too. I can see why DD can't be bothered with them.

Can't be bothered?

He is practically begging them!

Free tests, see?

The same free tests that some posters here swore a while ago were not 'free'.

[Dentie]

Can't be bothered?

He is practically begging them!

Free tests, see?

The same free tests that some posters here swore a while ago were not 'free'.

Balance - as usual, you are cherry picking. Here's a bit of the context...

'The urologists inside the DHB want this technology with a passion,'' the firm's chief executive, David Darling, said. ''To our knowledge there is no clinical reason why they are not taking it up.''

While there was a commercial advantage for Pacific Edge to have the SDHB use its product, potential income from a small market like the southern region was not vital for a company which reported more than $3.4 million operating revenue last year, Mr Darling said.
''New Zealand is such a small market, it is barely a blip on our radar, so why are we burning energy on it?
''New Zealand is a fantastic place to bring new technology to the market, and if you have good technology with good peer-reviewed scientific publications you can really make a difference ... we would love our technology to be adopted by our hometown DHB, and we can't see any reason why it could not be adopted.''
Mr Darling said Pacific Edge had contacted some of the patients whose cases were reported in the HDC urology service report and offered them their products for free.
''We are concerned that people not being tested is impacting on their lives, when there is an alternative ... people could get hurt, when there is no need for them to get hurt.''

Now, when you read that - IN ITS CONTEXT - any objective person would see there was no signs of "begging".

No, I thing DD is genuinely concerned that his fellow citizens are being denied what most other Kiwi's are getting in their DHB's and he wants to make sure they don't miss out. It is not their fault their local DHB seems to be running itself into the ground.

Good try though!

[Minerbarejet]

Can't be bothered?

He is practically begging them!

Free tests, see?

The same free tests that some posters here swore a while ago were not 'free'.

Just because bills haven't been paid does not make them free.
If the DHB cant take up a free offer then I suggest that personalities and egos ( of which we have great experience on this thread) are the root cause.
Have a nice day ( if possible).

[Balance]

Just because bills haven't been paid does not make them free.
If the DHB cant take up a free offer then I suggest that personalities and egos ( of which we have great experience on this thread) are the root cause.
Have a nice day ( if possible).

When you have received as many written thanks from posters on this forum as I have, I guess it can be ego-flating?

You should try it sometime, mbj - it's a nice feeling. :t_up:

[Balance]

Good news!

PEB announces last capital raising!!!!!!

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-seeks-last-capital-raising

[Sideshow Bob]

Good news!

PEB announces last capital raising!!!!!!

https://www.odt.co.nz/business/pacific-edge-seeks-last-capital-raising

Not toooooooooo dissimilar to Xero. Or should that be Zero?

[Dentie]

Not toooooooooo dissimilar to Xero. Or should that be Zero?

From memory, Xero's CR's were a lot cleaner deal for Drury & Co than PEB's has been for DD & Co.

Rod just had to sell Xero's concept to the likes of Thiel & Winkler and presto - how many tens (hundreds?) of millions would you like Rod?

Whereas, even though CxBladder's concept is clear and unrivalled, David has had to sell it to the whole market.

That is one difference - however, one glaring similarity is - both concepts have struggled to get traction in the US market.

Perhaps David could ask Rod for Peter Thiel's phone number?

[Balance]

From memory, Xero's CR's were a lot cleaner deal for Drury & Co than PEB's has been for DD & Co.

Rod just had to sell Xero's concept to the likes of Thiel & Winkler and presto - how many tens (hundreds?) of millions would you like Rod?

Whereas, even though CxBladder's concept is clear and unrivalled, David has had to sell it to the whole market.

That is one difference - however, one glaring similarity is - both concepts have struggled to get traction in the US market.

Perhaps David could ask Rod for Peter Thiel's phone number?

Knowing him, he already did that and Peter's reply was : "How much $$$ are you personally putting into the company?"

[Dentie]

Knowing him, he already did that and Peter's reply was : "How much $$$ are you personally putting into the company?"

Another example of you just out to attack David Darling. Looking a bit deeper...

Same player in both of Rod Drury's deals - Peter Thiel, was targeted "to help that firm break into America. The market took his investment as a vote of confidence and doubled Xero's share price" (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/4521214/Pacific-Fibre-adds-Facebook-and-Paypal)

Thiel could/may have equally asked Rod .. "How much $$$ are you personally putting into (ironically named) 'Pacific Fibre'"?

So, to be sure, despite all that "heavyweight talent" and spending many, many millions of shareholders' $$$ - Pacific Fibre still couldn't get to the start line (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10823806).

The point you are trying to make Balance is a stupid one. Your one focussed approach on DD is unhealthy and is misleading.

I do not think for one minute that Xero's success will be contingent upon what amount of personal funds Rod Drury invested in it - any more than whether PEB's eventual success will be dependent on how much of David Darling's personal funds are invested in it. Another point is real dollars at the front are not the same as shares in lieu along the way.

How many international public companies have you foundered?

I respect guys like Drury and Darling because they aren't scared to put their nuts on the line as they try to build worthy businesses. Also, as with most entreprenuers, they keep giving it a go - despite losses along the way. I bet both of these guys have lost their investment $$$ along the way - but you don't see them perpetually attacking those who they might see as the "perpetrators".

[Balance]

What nonsense.

The executives of PEB are paid huge salaries and benefits - and free options. What nuts on the line? Must be pine nuts from the tree in University of Otago's campus?

$99m raised and burnt using deceitful and misleading information and projections by incompetent and useless executives and directors imo - that’s PEB.

[RGR367]

Comparing PEB with XRO? C'mon that was a tongue in cheek article. For XRO is you're almost waking up from a good dream right now while you're in PEB still perspiring getting away in the middle of your nightmare. To even compare PEB with XRO is also a slap to holders of XRO mostly.

[Sideshow Bob]

How many international public companies have you foundered?


Appreciate completely unintentional, but very apt spelling mistake when speaking about PEB.

[Balance]

Appreciate completely unintentional, but very apt spelling mistake when speaking about PEB.

:D:D:D

Glad indeed I have not foundered any!

:t_up:

[Balance]

Comparing PEB with XRO? C'mon that was a tongue in cheek article. For XRO is you're almost waking up from a good dream right now while you're in PEB still perspiring getting away in the middle of your nightmare. To even compare PEB with XRO is also a slap to holders of XRO mostly.

Actually, it tells a lot about the level of indoctrination which has been successfully done on some shareholders/investors?

Never mind the free tests were actually not 'free' according to them, and revealed to be actually 'free' after all when accounts receivables had to be reversed.

Never mind that the capital raising in 2014 was supposed to be the last one, and the 2016 was definitely the last one etc etc and now, the company is going cap in hand with yet another capital raising!

To be 95% off the projected $100m revenues at year 5 and to still be taken so seriously and with almost unquestionable reverence by some of the shareholders - wow! Breathtaking naivety on a grand scale indeed!

[barney]

Actually, it tells a lot about the level of indoctrination which has been successfully done on some shareholders/investors?

Never mind the free tests were actually not 'free' according to them, and revealed to be actually 'free' after all when accounts receivables had to be reversed.

Never mind that the capital raising in 2014 was supposed to be the last one, and the 2016 was definitely the last one etc etc and now, the company is going cap in hand with yet another capital raising!

To be 95% off the projected $100m revenues at year 5 and to still be taken so seriously and with almost unquestionable reverence by some of the shareholders - wow! Breathtaking naivety on a grand scale indeed!

Wasn't there also some issue regarding something management said about " tens of thousands of tests."

[BigBob]

Never mind the free tests were actually not 'free' according to them, and revealed to be actually 'free' after all when accounts receivables had to be reversed.


Hmmm... I think you are stretching things a bit here...

I don't think anyone has ever argued that the "free" tests that were (and are) part of user trials are not "free' - maybe someone did...

But as far as I remember it wasn't the "free" user trial tests that were reversed. It was instead the "free" tests that they did (and are doing) for patients coverered by CMS, which I think you will find are indeed not "free" when cx is added to the CMS schedule (assuming it is one day)...

At the last report hose accumulative tests were worth something like US$15m...

[Dentie]

Balance - How much did Pacific Fibre "burn" through before they folded? (I note PEB hasn't yet folded).

RGR367 - You've missed the context of my comparison between PEB and XRO. (Hint - it wasn't their financial "performance").

Sideshow Bob - I am truly surprised you were the first poster in respect to my spelling error. I thought it may have been someone else.

A little further digging reveals... https://www.interest.co.nz/business/60485/kiwi-pacific-fibre-cable-project-sunk-us-fears-about-chinese-investment-espionage-it

I think this story sums it all up quite well.

- With all the heavyweights involved in Pacific Fibre, you would think they would have done (even a basic) a business plan before start-up?
- If they didn't want to bother personally, you would think they would have consulted with a major firm to do it (maybe they did)?
- Given the money involved, as part of that initial planning, you would think they would have discussed the possible "risks" (ie - the US!!) to the project?
- Notwithstanding the above and, in any event, you would think the big start-up "smart money" would have done their due diligence before handing over dosh?
- The fact is, in typical style, the US can (& do) veto any overseas initiative they don't like. They stopped this firm in its tracks without recompense!

Happily - PEB are still operating in the US and must be getting very close to kicking that last (US required) goal. You would have to bet on PEB kicking it - given they have been allowed to kick the first two. And when they do - it should be clover time. And I am sure you would agree with me Balance ... why else would you be wasting your valuable time monitoring this thread.

I concede they may go broke if they can't stay solvent in the meantime - but, as Jacinda & the Govt would say ... "I don't comment on hypotheticals".

Lastly, I think it is a sign of weakness to come on a public forum and consistently write disparaging comments about Company Directors & Management who can't defent themselves without at least having the courage to both identify yourself and provide your credentials at the same time.

If you are so serious about your opinions against these people, why don't you have the courage of your convictions and report them to the FMA? That would be operating in the best interests of those followers you purport to influence on here. I've never understood why people would act on the financial opinions of those that operate anonymously.

[Balance]

Balance - How much did Pacific Fibre "burn" through before they folded? (I note PEB hasn't yet folded).

RGR367 - You've missed the context of my comparison between PEB and XRO. (Hint - it wasn't their financial "performance").

Sideshow Bob - I am truly surprised you were the first poster in respect to my spelling error. I thought it may have been someone else.

A little further digging reveals... https://www.interest.co.nz/business/60485/kiwi-pacific-fibre-cable-project-sunk-us-fears-about-chinese-investment-espionage-it

I think this story sums it all up quite well.

- With all the heavyweights involved in Pacific Fibre, you would think they would have done (even a basic) a business plan before start-up?
- If they didn't want to bother personally, you would think they would have consulted with a major firm to do it (maybe they did)?
- Given the money involved, as part of that initial planning, you would think they would have discussed the possible "risks" (ie - the US!!) to the project?
- Notwithstanding the above and, in any event, you would think the big start-up "smart money" would have done their due diligence before handing over dosh?
- The fact is, in typical style, the US can (& do) veto any overseas initiative they don't like. They stopped this firm in its tracks without recompense!

Happily - PEB are still operating in the US and must be getting very close to kicking that last (US required) goal. You would have to bet on PEB kicking it - given they have been allowed to kick the first two. And when they do - it should be clover time. And I am sure you would agree with me Balance ... why else would you be wasting your valuable time monitoring this thread.

I concede they may go broke if they can't stay solvent in the meantime - but, as Jacinda & the Govt would say ... "I don't comment on hypotheticals".

Lastly, I think it is a sign of weakness to come on a public forum and consistently write disparaging comments about Company Directors & Management who can't defent themselves without at least having the courage to both identify yourself and provide your credentials at the same time.

If you are so serious about your opinions against these people, why don't you have the courage of your convictions and report them to the FMA? That would be operating in the best interests of those followers you purport to influence on here. I've never understood why people would act on the financial opinions of those that operate anonymously.

You need to do your homework before posting about Pacific Fibre.

Give it another try.

[Minerbarejet]

You need to do your homework before posting about Pacific Fibre.

Give it another try.

And you ought to do some homework before posting about Pacific Edge.

On the other hand it may be beyond your comprehension.

Give it another try and get back to us in a couple of years

[Balance]

And you ought to do some homework before posting about Pacific Edge.

On the other hand it may be beyond your comprehension.

Give it another try and get back to us in a couple of years



This also gives us , dare I say it, "several 10s of thousands" by end of March 2015.

That was you, poor ole mbj, 5 years ago - and you couldn't be more wrong - so any point waiting for a couple more years?

Unless of course, you want to throw more good money after bad.

Sp at 17.8 cents - ouch!

Lowest sp since 2012 and looks like heading towards 10c as what's left of PEB's cash disappears down the proverbial.

[Minerbarejet]

That was you, poor ole mbj, 5 years ago - and you couldn't be more wrong - so any point waiting for a couple more years?

Unless of course, you want to throw more good money after bad.

Sp at 17.8 cents - ouch!

Lowest sp since 2012 and looks like heading towards 10c as what's left of PEB's cash disappears down the proverbial.

Start here Balance.
See if you can figure where the "tens of thousands" fits in as it is endlessly promoted as a focal point for your postings, in fact almost the raison d'etre for your entire presence.


DISCLAIMERInformationThe information in this presentation is an overview and does not contain all information necessary to make an investment decision. It is intended to constitute asummary of certain information relating to the performance of Pacific Edge Limited . The information in this presentation is of a general nature and does not purportto be complete. This presentation should be read in conjunction with Pacific Edge's other periodic and continuous disclosure announcements, which are available atnzx.com.Not financial product adviceThis presentation is for information purposes only and is not financial or investment advice or a recommendation to acquire Pacific Edge securities, and has beenprepared without taking into account the objectives, financial situation or needs of individuals. Pacific Edge, its directors and employees do not give or make anyrecommendation or opinion in relation to acquiring or disposing of shares. In making an investment decision, investors must rely on their own examination of PacificEdge, including the merits and risks involved. Investors should consult with their own legal, tax, business and/or financial advisors in connection with any acquisition ofsecurities.Future performanceThis presentation contains certain 'forward-looking statements', for example statements concerning the development and commercialisation of new products,regulatory approvals, customer adoption and results of future clinical studies. Forward-looking statements can generally be identified by the use of forward-lookingwords such as, 'expect', 'anticipate', 'likely', 'intend', 'could', 'may', 'predict', 'plan', 'propose', 'will', 'believe', 'forecast', 'estimate', 'target', 'outlook', 'guidance' andother similar expressions. The forward-looking statements contained in this presentation are not guarantees or predictions of future performance and involve knownand unknown risks and uncertainties and other factors, many of which are beyond the control of Pacific Edge and may involve significant elements of subjectivejudgement and assumptions as to future events which may or may not be correct. There can be no assurance that actual outcomes will not materially differ fromthese forward-looking statements. A number of important factors could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from the forward-looking statements.The forward-looking statements are based on information available to Pacific Edge as at the date of this presentation. Except as required by law or regulation(including the NZX Main Board Listing Rules), Pacific Edge undertakes no obligation to provide any additional or updated information whether as a result of newinformation, future events or results or otherwise.No representationTo the maximum extent permitted by law, Pacific Edge and its advisers, affiliates, related bodies corporate, directors, officers, partners, employees and agents make norepresentation or warranty, express or implied, as to the currency, accuracy, reliability or completeness of information in this presentation.26

[Balance]

sp at 17.5c - enjoy, mbj as you look out to 2 years from now.

Could be 2 cents then at the last 2 years’ price trend - useful as a backdoor for medical ‘P’ ?

Guaranteed to deliver a high then!

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/63659645/cancer-detection-firm-on-target-for-100m-revenue

Good news !

"Cancer detection firm on target for $100m revenue"

[RTM]

Have you guys got nothing better to do ?
Not a very productive discussion. Rarely ends well.

[Balance]

Have you guys got nothing better to do ?
Not a very productive discussion. Rarely ends well.

All in good fun and happy spirits.

Mbj never takes anything I write seriously and I treat what he writes with delirious amusement.

[kiwidollabill]

It says underwritten by FNZC but is that fully underwritten?

That would be their largest single cap raising at $35.3M... I cant recall how the last one went...

[blackcap]

It says underwritten by FNZC but is that fully underwritten?

That would be their largest single cap raising at $35.3M... I cant recall how the last one went...

Are you referring to the article in the ODT from 2015?

[Balance]

Are you referring to the article in the ODT from 2015?

I think he is - the 'last' cap raising according to PEB before several tens of thousands of flowers would bloom, delivering profits and cash flow.

[Sideshow Bob]

It says underwritten by FNZC but is that fully underwritten?

That would be their largest single cap raising at $35.3M... I cant recall how the last one went...

There is no market announcement as yet. Balance is trawling/trolling with old links.....same as the stuff link with $100m in revenue.

[Balance]

There is no market announcement as yet. Balance is trawling/trolling with old links.....same as the stuff link with $100m in revenue.

Just posting reminders of how deceitful, misleading and utterly hopeless PEB really is.

[BigBob]

Just posting reminders of how deceitful, misleading and utterly hopeless PEB really is.

Did you mean to say "Just posting reminders of how deceitful, misleading and utterly hopeless Balance really is."....? ;-)

[Balance]

Did you mean to say "Just posting reminders of how deceitful, misleading and utterly hopeless Balance really is."....? ;-)

LOL - and guess who has been right all along about PEB?

You, Dentie and mbj? :D

Sp back at 2014 level after spending/squandering $99m through gross mismanagement and there are still some here who believes that defines 'success'! Pathetic!

[BigBob]

LOL - and guess who has been right all along about PEB?

You, Dentie and mbj? :D

So far...!! I'll give you that... You have been more or less right so far... :-)

It's more your methods I take issue with...

[blackcap]

So far...!! I'll give you that... You have been more or less right so far... :-)

It's more your methods I take issue with...

What are those methods BigBob? I am curious. For every BS story why companies are so great, I would want some balance and have some BS as to why they are crap.(using the term BS loosly here as a synonym for smack talk) Mostly on these forums we have BS as to why companies are great. So its refreshing to see some challenges of the obvious BS that PEB have been spouting for a while now. Culminating in restatement of Acc Rec. I think how many cap raises is it now in the last 6 years should really tell the story.

[BigBob]

What are those methods BigBob? I am curious. For every BS story why companies are so great, I would want some balance and have some BS as to why they are crap.(using the term BS loosly here as a synonym for smack talk) Mostly on these forums we have BS as to why companies are great. So its refreshing to see some challenges of the obvious BS that PEB have been spouting for a while now. Culminating in restatement of Acc Rec. I think how many cap raises is it now in the last 6 years should really tell the story.

I have no problem with getting balanced views on shares and companies and appreciate everyones opinion positive and negative. I definitely do not want a forum of rempers, cheerleaders and yay-sayers only - and on many other threads I take Balance's views into consideration - it is nothing personal. Both sides of the argument is good...!

But in this case, I don't agree with the way he/she is going about it and I think it is actually detrimental to the general debate. Anyway, jmo, so a few quick examples and and then I am over and out on this issue...

- tedious, ad nauseum repetition (e.g. 10,000 tests, restated revenues, sell down of shares)
- dredging up of old newspaper articles etc (e.g. capital raise from years ago)
- borderline smear campaign against management and board (if he/she really believes what he/she says - report it to the FMA)
- general misrepresentation (eg reason for restated cashflows)

[Sideshow Bob]

Just posting reminders of how deceitful, misleading and utterly hopeless PEB really is.

Indeed. Articles from 4/5 years ago which could be recycled today......

[Balance]

Indeed. Articles from 4/5 years ago which could be recycled today......

Precisely!

What is extremely telling about PEB is the highly optimistic statements and expectations which have been and are made - especially during cap raising time - but there's no follow up comments or statements by the company when said statements and expectations are not met.

And there are those in this forum who think that those of us who challenge the company to be transparent, to be accountable and to explain (and learn!) are trying to 'destroy' the company!

Heck, $99m is a lot of money to account for but what we have got was dodgy accounting imo.

Well, the company is doing a great job of destroying whatever credibility it ever had!

[Dentie]

I have no problem with getting balanced views on shares and companies and appreciate everyones opinion positive and negative. I definitely do not want a forum of rempers, cheerleaders and yay-sayers only - and on many other threads I take Balance's views into consideration - it is nothing personal. Both sides of the argument is good...!

But in this case, I don't agree with the way he/she is going about it and I think it is actually detrimental to the general debate. Anyway, jmo, so a few quick examples and and then I am over and out on this issue...

- tedious, ad nauseum repetition (e.g. 10,000 tests, restated revenues, sell down of shares)
- dredging up of old newspaper articles etc (e.g. capital raise from years ago)
- borderline smear campaign against management and board (if he/she really believes what he/she says - report it to the FMA...)
- general misrepresentation (eg reason for restated cashflows)

And this is exactly the same reasons why I also post criticisms of Balance....and here's a couple more...

- Happy to cling on "Legend" status, but never any willingness to state credentials or experience BEFORE offering "influential" and "pied piper" laced statements/advice or opinions;
- No disclaimers on his/her posts to "neutralise" my above statement;
- Routinely demonstrates self adulation, appears to adore the pedestal and shows little or no humility (Perhaps a student of Mr Trump?);
- Clearly relishes the mantle of PEB thread monitor - but doesn't appear to hold shares...so, why bother???; and,
- Seems to get upset when challenged - going to great lengths to belittle or destroy the "challenger" at all costs.

And to reiterate BigBob (& again in my previous post) ... although very clearly upset at what he sees PEB and DD as "deceitful, misleading and utterly hopeless", Balance is not prepared to make a complaint to the FMA....especially for accusations like "DODGY ACCOUNTING". Saying nothing is almost as bad!.

I've never seen him/her get up and challenge DD and the Board directly at any AGM (or other organised PEB forums) - which is what I and many other shareholders have done over the years.

I think the above behaviour demonstrates a very unprofessional attitude on what to do if one feels genuinely aggrieved at the way a public company is being run and is certainly not providing a good example of his/her followers.

I'm also done and dusted on this issue...

[blackcap]

And to reiterate BigBob (& again in my previous post) ... although very clearly upset at what he sees PEB and DD as "deceitful, misleading and utterly hopeless", Balance is not prepared to make a complaint to the FMA....especially for accusations like "DODGY ACCOUNTING". Saying nothing is almost as bad!.

..

To be fair though, even if PEB, DD are deceitful, misleading etc and engaging in dodgy accounting the FMA would do jack s-hit even if a complaint was laid. Wet bus ticket at best.

[Minerbarejet]

Catch you later, Dentie

Awaiting CMS to complete digital extraction.

Time to restock on popcorn and wait for a rerun of everything, without validation or authority.

[Tsuba]

Dentie I think your summation of the frailties of the human condition that is so often projected by anonymous keyboard warriors has been very aptly presented to everyone here.

[Balance]

Dentie I think your summation of the frailties of the human condition that is so often projected by anonymous keyboard warriors has been very aptly presented to everyone here.

So gutted .... :(












.... NOT!:t_up:

[Balance]

Eat your hearts out, Tsuba, Dentie, mbj, BigBob etc etc (while nursing your PEB losses) - others are enjoying their 100%+ gains on other stocks :

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9169-Serko/page76


Congratulations to you too Silu. I was reflecting today that the way ATM is going, SKO will soon overtake it in my portfolio! Crikey who would have thought..... I guess it is called diversification.

And yes, very happy to have increased my holding before the recent news..... a rare success;).

I have a very strong belief in SKO, they have a great team, great product, great international footprint and are making some great decisions. Once the cash raise is over I expect the SP will reach new highs.

I think it was Balance that first drew my attention to SKO so big thanks due there. GLH's!


Thanks also from me too Balance :)

[Meister]

I think Balance's message on PEB is a good one to have in this thread, and of course he is doing good things elsewhere as well. I think nobody would have a problem at all apart from the fact that he has an extremely repetitive thing going on. I liken it to TJ's constant posts with references to ARV in small text. Once or twice is fine, but after the 100th post in a row like that I get irrationally annoyed every time I see it.
I think Balance's content is in fact better than that, but that might be my own bias because I think his PEB warnings are legit. Its just that they currently do form the majority of the posts in this thread! Slow that down a little and I think everyone will be much more receptive to the (I think, important) message.
And, as always, no personal attacks either. No need to harass other holders, the message stands strong enough on its own given all the past evidence from this company.

This really is a product I want to see succeed and its such a shame that it doesn't appear to be. I did hold PEB ages ago, and am glad I am no longer in there. I currently watch the company (and this thread) with morbid interest :(
In saying that, I was expecting them to have declared a capital raising already and they haven't yet, so at least that is a positive surprise from the company haha

[Dentie]

Eat your hearts out, Tsuba, Dentie, mbj, BigBob etc etc (while nursing your PEB losses) - others are enjoying their 100%+ gains on other stocks :

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9169-Serko/page76

Your arrogance is breathtaking. Two quick points...

1. I could post some "Reputation Comments" on here that would wipe that smugness off your face - and belittle you in the process, but my integrity prevents it!!

2. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the contribution to the humanity side of things is more important than "100%+ gains"? No, I didn't think so.

Just for the record, if I lost every last drop of value my PEB shares had to offer (incl. my CDY shares) - I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I never invest in equities unless I can afford to lose the lot.

But never mind, those eager purchasers of PEB's stock back in 2014 kicked some rather large financial goals of mine as I steadily fed them my stock (perhaps you may know some of them Balance?).

Gee, I hope you don't feel "insulted" again....

[Balance]

Your arrogance is breathtaking. Two quick points...

1. I could post some "Reputation Comments" on here that would wipe that smugness off your face - and belittle you in the process, but my integrity prevents it!!

2. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the contribution to the humanity side of things is more important than "100%+ gains"? No, I didn't think so.

Just for the record, if I lost every last drop of value my PEB shares had to offer (incl. my CDY shares) - I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I never invest in equities unless I can afford to lose the lot.

But never mind, those eager purchasers of PEB's stock back in 2014 kicked some rather large financial goals of mine as I steadily fed them my stock (perhaps you may know some of them Balance?).

Gee, I hope you don't feel "insulted" again....


1. Don't let your lack of integrity stop you posting a reputation comment - others will ignore it but I will read it for a good chuckle.

2. Putting hard earned money with a bunch of incompetent executives (who raise the money using misleading and deceitful information) and who enjoy very high salaries and benefits constitute ‘contribution to humanity’? Pull the other leg.

And I would like to humbly urge you not to insult all the real volunteers out there sacrificing their time and efforts to contribute to the betterment of humanity.

But I guess being a person of such high ideals, would you like some suggestions of who you should really be supporting out there to better humanity? I will be pleased to oblige*.

* And NO - it's not Derek Handley 'B' team much as I know, Dentie, that you are chomping at the bits to support him and his huge contributions to humanity.

[Balance]

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/dhb-cancer-test-stance-queried

Rebuked, PEB has gone back to ground - as usual no follow-up because DD shot his mouth off without checking he and PEB had their act together.

[winner69]

I note the CEO has experience in dealing with ‘billions of dollars’

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/344443/312022.pdf

[pierre]

I note the CEO has experience in dealing with ‘billions of dollars’

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/344443/312022.pdf

Well, that's a handy skill for him to have in advance of the avalanche of funds heading in PEB's direction any day (some day) soon.

Meantime, even just a few more beans to count would be handy and save Balance the angst of worrying about the next CR - which he won't participate in anyway.

[kiwidollabill]

Well well well....

Dunedin is a small place....

That is not a company shift I would undertake, TracMap is actually doing quite well....

[Balance]

17c - and reasonable volume going through.

Looks like the underwriters are getting played rather well by one of their fellow institutions rushing past the rather narrow exit door!

[Balance]

https://thecostaricanews.com/ucr-scientists-develop-new-method-for-bladder-cancer-early-detection/

Meanwhile, the search for the best urine test for bladder cancer continues - this time with Costa Rica & American scientists.

"The test reached 98% sensitivity, in the detection of the disease and 87% specificity: the ability to exclude healthy individuals."

Guess PEB could raise some some more capital and propose a merger with them? Be faster to commercialize than continuing to throw good money after bad with CxBladder?

[Dentie]

17c - and reasonable volume going through.

Looks like the underwriters are getting played rather well by one of their fellow institutions rushing past the rather narrow exit door!

Who got "played rather well" when you rushed out the exit door?

[Balance]

Who got "played rather well" when you rushed out the exit door?

You? :t_up::t_up::t_up:

[Balance]

Well well well....

Dunedin is a small place....

That is not a company shift I would undertake, TracMap is actually doing quite well....

Piece of cake, kiwidollabill to entice him across. There's all that lovely free options, especially with the sp at current level - imagine when it becomes an ATM!

DD is a most consummate salesman - been able to extract $99m of cash despite missing uncountable key deadlines and milestones in the last 3 years.

[Dentie]

You? :t_up::t_up::t_up:

Now, we both know it wasn't me funny boy.

[kiwidollabill]

Piece of cake, kiwidollabill to entice him across. There's all that lovely free options, especially with the sp at current level - imagine when it becomes an ATM!

DD is a most consummate salesman - been able to extract $99m of cash despite missing uncountable key deadlines and milestones in the last 3 years.

He's not that good.... you couldn't say Adam Neuman is the best salesman when Softbank isnt the most difficult buyer.....

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=11932876

Blast from the past (Oct 2017) - let's see what PEB has actually achieved against an assessment of the company by an expert :


Red shows what actually happened.

• The company expects to receive just $4m of the $12.6m it expects to bill for Cxbladder in the current year

Cash receipts from customers of $3.4 million reflect the long reimbursement processes, particularly in the US, with a large portion of cash received in FY18 for tests sold in prior years.

• Pacific Edge is expecting a huge improvement in the March 2019 year, with estimated Cxbladder revenue of $27.9m and cash receipts of $25.7m"

Operating revenue from test sales was up 12% to $3.8m, with total revenue for the period of $5.1m. - $3.8m vs $27.9m expected!!!!!


Not hard to see why there are only mainly underwriters (too much to lose and impossible to get out) stuck in PEB - who else would want to have a bar of this &@#?

[Schrodinger]

52 week low. When do they go out of business? Looking more like a Wynyard every day.

[blackcap]

52 week low. When do they go out of business? Looking more like a Wynyard every day.

Probably a 10 year low as well. It is definitely a 5 year low.. probably longer.

[Balance]

Probably a 10 year low as well. It is definitely a 5 year low.. probably longer.

Last time it was at 16.5c was back in May 2012 - 6.5 years ago.

And it still has a market cap of $84m - a company with revenues for F19 of $3.8m, :eek2: net loss of $17.9m ;) and cash outflow of $17.5m!:scared:

And by now, cash must be down to about zero. :eek2:

[Balance]

52 week low. When do they go out of business? Looking more like a Wynyard every day.

Doubt they will do a Wynyard as a new CFO is going to be joining them on 16 Dec?

But it's that time of the year again - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ5DOWPGxwg :t_up:

Yes, it is beginning to look a lot like Christmas - oops, capital raising time!

Results next week with the inevitable CR. :eek2:

[Minerbarejet]

Gee whiz, Balance you havent mentioned the alleged "10s of thousands tests" in your last few batches of noise.

Are we in a new era?

Or did it just slip your mind.

[Balance]

Gee whiz, Balance you havent mentioned the alleged "10s of thousands tests" in your last few batches of noise.

Are we in a new era?

Or did it just slip your mind.

Well, you know what’s coming next week, right?

[davflaws]

Well, you know what’s coming next week, right?

New deck??

[Minerbarejet]

New deck??

Yeah, that would help.
There are a few cards missing from the old one. :)

[Balance]

New deck??

New deck will have to wait - feel so sorry for the eager beavers chomping at the bits for another bite of the wood.

Trading halt, looks like capital raising hit a snag with the sp dropping towards 10c so best to have a trading halt while negotiations on size and price take place.

[kiwidollabill]

6month Rev up a smidge, op cost about the same, burn slightly lower

Publishing lab throughput data - ~65% is 'billable' - thought they dont do 'free' test?

$4.7M left, raising another $20M

[winner69]

Good sign that the amounts being raised are getting bigger

$20m is a lot ....should keep them going for a while

[winner69]

Accumulated losses now $147m

[sb9]

New deck will have to wait - feel so sorry for the eager beavers chomping at the bits for another bite of the wood.

Trading halt, looks like capital raising hit a snag with the sp dropping towards 10c so best to have a trading halt while negotiations on size and price take place.

Oh dear...what a mess, probably its an understatement!!!

[RTM]

511,625,458 shares currently on issue as per Direct Broking
131,362,852 more to be issued @ 10c. Big dilution.

I exited 2 years ago with ~60% loss.....thanks to all on here who contributed to my decision making. It could have been worse.

Underwritten by Forsyth Barr Group Limited and Jarden Partners Limited. Does this mean that those people with managed portfolios will get quite a few more PEB shares added ? I hope those folk look at this thread from time to time.

[silu]

Let's have a look at my PEB history. Bought at $1.53 and sold out at $1.28. I remember how hard I took this loss and wondered for a while if I did the right thing. I shouldn't have.

[blackcap]

O dear, looking at the depth it is looking sick. This really is game over. Even with another $20m dollars, if they do become successful earlier holders will have been diluted the #&$%^ out of any potential upside.

[100101]

Dunno they have a long way to go before they get down to AUZ.AX levels, although to be fair the price did go down to $0.013.

[Balance]

O dear, looking at the depth it is looking sick. This really is game over. Even with another $20m dollars, if they do become successful earlier holders will have been diluted the #&$%^ out of any potential upside.

Not if they hold the faith and keep taking up the cash issues, and keep piling up their losses.

Much easier to cut when red flag after red flag were raised and got out at 60c plus!

You get the use of your money all that time and now if you really really really want to believe the story, you can buy back at least times more shares than you had before! Clever huh?

[kiwidollabill]

To their credit, they're being far more transparent in timelines in the investor ppt. Outlining the timeline to CMS reimbursement and LCD based on advice from a consultant (only 6 more months).....

However, there is zero mention of Kaiser Permanente...?

[Snow Leopard]

But this is definitely the last capital raise before the profits start to pour in, right?

[Ottiehund]

I expect the big insurers etc in US will be pre occupied this coming year with making representations to the Democrats why they should not implement Medicare For All .... rather than focussing on signing up with a small product provider from the other side of the world.

[Balance]

To their credit, they're being far more transparent in timelines in the investor ppt. Outlining the timeline to CMS reimbursement and LCD based on advice from a consultant (only 6 more months).....

However, there is zero mention of Kaiser Permanente...?

And we are to believe that to date, they have been doing all the submissions and interactions with CMS all by themselves?

If they did, they have shown how dumb and recklessly incompetent they have been.

If not, the advice by a consultant is but another bit of critical misinformation to suck in more $$$$.

Zero mention of KP as that was going to be the biggie deal (finalizing negotiations) for the capital raise 2 years ago, remember?

[Minerbarejet]

And we are to believe that to date, they have been doing all the submissions and interactions with CMS all by themselves?

If they did, they have shown how dumb and recklessly incompetent they have been.

If not, the advice by a consultant is but another bit of critical misinformation to suck in more $$$$.

Zero mention of KP as that was going to be the biggie deal (finalizing negotiations) for the capital raise 2 years ago, remember?
Ahem.
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/344680/312347.pdf

Page 2.
Have a nice day

[silu]

What's the minimum purchase on the NZX again? $600? I think when they are trading again it might be worth that big of a punt.

[Balance]

Ahem.
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/344680/312347.pdf

Page 2.
Have a nice day

Oh wow! I missed it! "Management is focused on completing agreements for the adoption and commercial use of Cxbladder and building sales from the large institutional accounts and payers Pacific Edge is targetingin the USA, including Kaiser Permanente, Johns Hopkins Medicine, the Veterans Administration, Tricare, the CMS and other blue-chip institutions"

So the huge opportunity with KP has gone from this :

Negotiations started with Kaiser in April 2017 (2 years and 7 months ago) after the large scale user program was completed.

Aug 24th 2017 : "Kaiser .... we are now nearing the end of the negotiations on a commercial agreement"

Nov 29th 2017 : "Commercial negotiations are progressing positively with Kaiser Permanente"

April 19th 2018 : "Making good progress"

May 22th 2018 : "The commercial agreement continues to move forward"

To Nov 20th 2019 : 'management is focused on completing agreement with KP etc' !!!!!:eek2:

But - roll up, time to get excited and give us another $20m, folks, because LCD coverage is but 6 months away! :D

Want to hazard a guess that it will be another KP type deal - give us the money because KP deal is any day* now and it's going to be huge! :t_up:

* But really, it's probably never. :t_down:

[Balance]

What's the minimum purchase on the NZX again? $600? I think when they are trading again it might be worth that big of a punt.

Tomorrow morning.

Underwriters will be sweating if they cannot get the placement away by market close, given that they have been working on it for a while.

[Beagle]

Hard to believe the brokers are giving this more support for yet another capital raising to yet again extend the length of this ongoing fiasco. Talk about flogging a dead horse !

Adds new meaning to the term "penny dreadful".

[Minerbarejet]

And we are to believe that to date, they have been doing all the submissions and interactions with CMS all by themselves?

If they did, they have shown how dumb and recklessly incompetent they have been.

If not, the advice by a consultant is but another bit of critical misinformation to suck in more $$$$.

Zero mention of KP as that was going to be the biggie deal (finalizing negotiations) for the capital raise 2 years ago, remember?

No.

Novitas has been handling it all since day one as their Medicare Contractor

All companies seeking similar approval with CMS have to go through this process.

[Beagle]

New deck will have to wait - feel so sorry for the eager beavers chomping at the bits for another bite of the wood.

Trading halt, looks like capital raising hit a snag with the sp dropping towards 10c so best to have a trading halt while negotiations on size and price take place.

I feel sorry for clients who have given Forsyth and Jarden full discretion regarding management of their funds. They're going to end up getting a very fulsome allocation of this "wonderfully compelling" opportunity. As long as the underwriters get their fees...

[Dentie]

Accumulated losses now $147m

Yes Winner - I noted that as well. Will come in very handy WHEN (yes, when) positive EBIT occurs.

I also noted there was no debt!

[Dentie]

No.

Novitas has been handling it all since day one as their Medicare Contractor

All companies seeking similar approval with CMS have to go through this process.

I wonder if that process applies to this crowd...

https://thecostaricanews.com/ucr-scientists-develop-new-method-for-bladder-cancer-early-detection/

"Now, for the test to finally be implemented at the clinical level, it requires complementary validation studies and Costa Rica is planned to lead that process. According to the expert, there is still no set date for its beginning, as funding and collaboration with urologists are required."

If so, it would seem they have a bit of a long road ahead of them.

[Beagle]

Yes Winner - I noted that as well. Will come in very handy WHEN (yes, when) positive EBIT occurs.

I also noted there was no debt!

5 year chart makes for very sober viewing10859
Of course this time its different and their latest public relations spiel can be relied on such that shareholders are assured riches really are just around the corner...
Can I please have a Tui billboard to go with that :D

[RTM]

5 year chart makes for very sober viewing10859
Of course this time its different and their latest public relations spiel can be relied on such that shareholders are assured riches really are just around the corner...
Can I please have a Tui billboard to go with that :D

It’s quite similar to Sky TV’s. I wonder if the outcome will be the same ?

[Balance]

Yes Winner - I noted that as well. Will come in very handy WHEN (yes, when) positive EBIT occurs.

I also noted there was no debt!

And who be dumb enough to lend money to this mutt?

It has been bad enough a disaster for those putting money in as equity.

[GTM 3442]

Back in 2012, PEB looked like a good story at less than 20c.

I forget when I sold out, but I made some money. I think they've got a good product which they have been unable to successfully commercialize. A shame.

Plenty of time to hop back aboard should it all pan out. . .

[Beagle]

It’s quite similar to Sky TV’s. I wonder if the outcome will be the same ?

LOL mate ..A very different mutt with different fleas but I agree that its not looking especially healthy either :eek2:

[winner69]

Rome wasn’t built in a day

One day will be PEBs day

[blackcap]

I feel sorry for clients who have given Forsyth and Jarden full discretion regarding management of their funds. They're going to end up getting a very fulsome allocation of this "wonderfully compelling" opportunity. As long as the underwriters get their fees...

Don't feel sorry for them. They should know better than to give their money to Forsyth and Jarden :)

[Beagle]

Don't feel sorry for them. They should know better than to give their money to Forsyth and Jarden :)

Its been going on for decades eh. Many of Forsyth Barr's clients got some outstandingly generous allocations of Feltex shares ;)

[percy]

Rome wasn’t built in a day

One day will be PEBs day

According to Google it took 1,000 years to build Rome.

[winner69]

According to Google it took 1,000 years to build Rome.

......and it burned in one

[CatO'Tonic]

......and it burned in one

Haha, and its still there and still relies on the "odd top-up"...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/business/italy-economy-debt.html
some scary parallels here.
Nice coffee though.

[TideMan]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/business/italy-economy-debt.html


The Italians may not have two beans to rub together, but they do it in style.
Look at how the people in that photo are dressed.

Not sure PEB can claim they do anything with style.

[kiwidollabill]

The Italians may not have two beans to rub together, but they do it in style.
Look at how the people in that photo are dressed.

Not sure PEB can claim they do anything with style.

They're in a building with walls all glass, they've got to be good...

[silu]

As far as I remember with previous raises that it did trade above the issue price for a while and this is the first time that it immediately trades below? If so the patience of even the most long-term investor must wear a bit thin. But then based on my "it's always darkest before the dawn" theory it becomes worthwhile for a little punt. If CXbladder is really a good product then why not just buy the whole company instead of spending more money to develop a product.

[blackcap]

So who were these clever clogs that lined up to take PEB shares at 15 cents? Already out of the money.

[biker]

They now plan to raise $13 million at 10c with rights trading. I would expect the share price to drift to close to 10c and the rights during trading next to worthless. Could be worth a punt but only at or close to 10c IMO, unless there is some very positive news in the meantime which is I guess, possible.

[Balance]

So who were these clever clogs that lined up to take PEB shares at 15 cents? Already out of the money.

Doesn't the 19m odd shares at 15c crossed this morning look suspiciously like some brokers' discretionary portfolio clients being favored with some 'cheap' shares? :D


They now plan to raise $13 million at 10c with rights trading. I would expect the share price to drift to close to 10c and the rights during trading next to worthless. Could be worth a punt but only at or close to 10c IMO, unless there is some very positive news in the meantime which is I guess, possible.

There's going to be 131m rights to be issued and traded from 28 Nov.

Being the huge disaster* the stock has been, there will be holders who cannot put in any more good money after bad - so will sell as long as the rights are worth something and try to recoup some value from this, the 6th rights issue at ever decreasing sp!

So yes, agreed we will mostly see 10.5c by end of rights trading period.

* Down 70% in the last 12 months!

Sp back to where it was in August 2009!

10 years of sp going nowhere, burning through $99m.

[davflaws]

10 years of sp going nowhere, burning through $99m.

Yeah - but think of all the pleasure, joy, and satisfaction it has given you!

[Balance]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/345096/312960.pdf

Roll up, roll up! The Chairman has spoken!

"On behalf of the Board, I am pleased to invite you to participate in this offer to acquire new ordinary shares in Pacific Edge through a fully underwritten pro-rata 1 for 4.25 renounceable rights offer"

Now let's see how pleased he really is when the offer is completed - as measured by how many directors and management actually put in some money!

[Schrodinger]

Who in Forsyth will take the hit on this one? Love to know their IRR for PEB so far.

[Balance]

Who in Forsyth will take the hit on this one? Love to know their IRR for PEB so far.

If history is any guide, their discretionary clients' portfolios will be wearing any hit with Forbar taking the underwriting fees (like in Feltex)?

Heads they win, tails you lose!

[winner69]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PEB/345096/312960.pdf

Roll up, roll up! The Chairman has spoken!

"On behalf of the Board, I am pleased to invite you to participate in this offer to acquire new ordinary shares in Pacific Edge through a fully underwritten pro-rata 1 for 4.25 renounceable rights offer"

Now let's see how pleased he really is when the offer is completed - as measured by how many directors and management actually put in some money!

Balance ...only ‘pleased’ ....rather subdued when it’s usually ‘excited’ in PEB lingo

[RTM]

If history is any guide, their discretionary clients' portfolios will be wearing any hit with Forbar taking the underwriting fees (like in Feltex)?

Heads they win, tails you lose!

I'm not sure how those portfolios work....do they still have to ask the client and have them say Yes to add it to their portfolio ? Or can they just fire ahead and do it ?

[Balance]

I'm not sure how those portfolios work....do they still have to ask the client and have them say Yes to add it to their portfolio ? Or can they just fire ahead and do it ?

https://www.forsythbarr.co.nz/assets/public/Forms-and-Documents/for21213-1910-Service-Disclosure-Statement-f.pdf

You hand and surrender over your funds and financial assets like shares & bonds to be managed at their discretion - because they are professional, have superior knowledge and are 100% dedicated to maximising profits for clients.

[RTM]

https://www.forsythbarr.co.nz/assets/public/Forms-and-Documents/for21213-1910-Service-Disclosure-Statement-f.pdf

You hand and surrender over your funds and financial assets like shares & bonds to be managed at their discretion - because they are professional, have superior knowledge and are 100% dedicated to maximising profits for clients.

Bl....dy hell....So clearly I've been doing it wrong ?
Should be a law against that kind of service.

[Dentie]

Bl....dy hell....So clearly I've been doing it wrong ?
Should be a law against that kind of service.

No RTM, you haven't necessarily been doing it wrong and, also no, there shouldn't be a law against that kind of service. If so, maybe that should have been considered BEFORE investing?

You presumably gave them your dosh because you thought they could invest it better than you could and hence, you were happy to pay their fees and charges for doing so - hopefully offsetting those against a superior yield.

They presumably gave you a copy of their disclosure document and it clearly states the risks involved. The risks are no greater than if you invested your dosh yourself. It also states you can extract your dosh when you want - subject of course to liquidity.

One of the probable positive differences of them investing your funds is diversification.

[Balance]

Bl....dy hell....So clearly I've been doing it wrong ?
Should be a law against that kind of service.

Question of conflict of interest, and how a broking firm need to manage the conflict.

The risk with this kind of service with a stockbroking firm is that the funds are used to underwrite IPOs, placements and structured financial deals.

The firm takes all the underwriting fees if the underwriting is successful. The clients end up with the underwriting shortfalls of unpopular and unsuccessful deals.

Heads they win, tails the clients lose.

[RTM]

No RTM, you haven't necessarily been doing it wrong and, also no, there shouldn't be a law against that kind of service. If so, maybe that should have been considered BEFORE investing?

You presumably gave them your dosh because you thought they could invest it better than you could and hence, you were happy to pay their fees and charges for doing so - hopefully offsetting those against a superior yield.

They presumably gave you a copy of their disclosure document and it clearly states the risks involved. The risks are no greater than if you invested your dosh yourself. It also states you can extract your dosh when you want - subject of course to liquidity.

One of the probable positive differences of them investing your funds is diversification.

Thanks Dentie…..Scary tho it is...I am doing it all myself. I was joking.
But for the folk who use the "discretionary investment management service" to be put into companies like PEB without being asked....well....it seems wrong, even if it is diversification. They would I guess be people who are less confident to manage their own investments and wouldn't know what they were being sold. And we wonder why kiwi's like real estate.

[Balance]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/8726249/Defendant-signs-up-claimants

Guess how these clients of Forsyth Barr ended up with Feltex shares?

[RTM]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/8726249/Defendant-signs-up-claimants

Guess how these clients of Forsyth Barr ended up with Feltex shares?

Forsyth were one of the brokers I considered when I was getting started after retiring.
They were quite insistent on SKY being part of the portfolio. Even then I could see what might happen to SKY. They couldn't / wouldn't. That….and some additional research (Credit Sails) ...sent me elsewhere. But I digress.

[Balance]

Thanks Dentie…..Scary tho it is...I am doing it all myself. I was joking.
But for the folk who use the "discretionary investment management service" to be put into companies like PEB without being asked....well....it seems wrong, even if it is diversification. They would I guess be people who are less confident to manage their own investments and wouldn't know what they were being sold. And we wonder why kiwi's like real estate.

Use a good fund manager and invest in one of their diversified funds, you will get all the diversification you ever want.

Give your hard earned funds to a broker’s discretionary investment account and the big risk is the broker using the discretionary funds to underwrite issues for fees, and the discretionary funds ending up with the unpopular and unwanted shortfall.

Different scenario if the clients get preferential access to popular and highly sought after IPOs and issues.

A well run fund (eg. Milford) certainly gets access to such issues on behalf of clients.

[RTM]

https://mailchi.mp/pacificedge/us-clinical-review-reinforces-need-for-cxbladder-1294629?e=7843e72003

https://www.urotoday.com/video-lectures/bladder-cancer/video/mediaitem/1570-evaluation-of-cxbladder-and-adjudication-of-atypical-cytology-and-equivocal-cystoscopy-badrinath-konety.html



Interesting video.
Interesting timing on communicating it to their investors.

[Balance]

https://mailchi.mp/pacificedge/us-clinical-review-reinforces-need-for-cxbladder-1294629?e=7843e72003

https://www.urotoday.com/video-lectures/bladder-cancer/video/mediaitem/1570-evaluation-of-cxbladder-and-adjudication-of-atypical-cytology-and-equivocal-cystoscopy-badrinath-konety.html



Interesting video.
Interesting timing on communicating it to their investors.

Not having the desired impact.

Rights trading below 3 cents and looks like heading towards 1c.

[Balance]

Not having the desired impact.

Rights trading below 3 cents and looks like heading towards 1c.

Where have all the buyers & believers gone?

Millions of unwanted rights being sold at ever cheaper prices and there are no takers fronting up?

I wonder if the directors are selling their rights as they (based upon history) have no intention of fronting up with their money to support capital raisings.

[Ggcc]

Where have all the buyers & believers gone?

Millions of unwanted rights being sold at ever cheaper prices and there are no takers fronting up?

I wonder if the directors are selling their rights as they (based upon history) have no intention of fronting up with their money to support capital raisings.
I smell a wynyard

[Balance]

I smell a wynyard

The $20m to be raised is underwritten so PEB will survive another year or so.

Let's see how much stock the underwriters have to suck on.

It's an extremely dilutionary rights issue (10c versus pre-announcement sp price of 16.5c) so there's value in the rights which can and are being realized by those who have had enough of putting good money after bad.

Question is whether the directors and management pick up the rights or sell them.

Going to be fascinating!

[TideMan]

It suddenly dawned on me that I could sell the rights, so I did (for 2.5 c), and after brokerage got enough for a few bottles of really nice red wine.
We'll have them at Christmas and toast that barefaced liar DD.

[Sgt Pepper]

PEB and BLIS listed roughly at the same time (2003). At the current spiral downward it wont be ling before BLIS share price transcends PEB, and unlike PEB makes a profit already

[RupertBear]

It suddenly dawned on me that I could sell the rights, so I did (for 2.5 c), and after brokerage got enough for a few bottles of really nice red wine.
We'll have them at Christmas and toast that barefaced liar DD.

Hmmm so do you have to accept your rights before you can sell your rights? Or can you just sell your rights? The Bear is quite confused by these rights things :confused:

Dont tell Balance but The Bear had a small holding of these stinkers with a big red arrow beside them. The mention of them smelling like a Wynyard terrified The Bear into selling them today, for a 50% loss, but oh what a relief! :) So now what happens to those rights?

[Balance]

Hmmm so do you have to accept your rights before you can sell your rights? Or can you just sell your rights? The Bear is quite confused by these rights things :confused:

Dont tell Balance but The Bear had a small holding of these stinkers with a big red arrow beside them. The mention of them smelling like a Wynyard terrified The Bear into selling them today, for a 50% loss, but oh what a relief! :) So now what happens to those rights?

It's ok, RB - at least you have some Serko to offset the red arrow?

You must sell the rights by Friday 5th Dec unless you want to pick them up by paying the 10c per right.

[Dentie]

Hmmm so do you have to accept your rights before you can sell your rights? Or can you just sell your rights? The Bear is quite confused by these rights things :confused:

Dont tell Balance but The Bear had a small holding of these stinkers with a big red arrow beside them. The mention of them smelling like a Wynyard terrified The Bear into selling them today, for a 50% loss, but oh what a relief! :) So now what happens to those rights?

No offence Bear - but I often wonder whether anonymous punters on ST act on the comments of other "uncredentialled" anonymous punters on ST ...

I guess I have my answer. I'm staggered.

Good luck with the rest of your holdings.

[Xerof]

Rupert, the ticker is PEBRF, last traded 2.6 cents per right, if you wanted to sell them. Or, you could pay the 10 cents by accepting the rights, and have a smaller position......make your own mind up though

[RupertBear]

No offence Bear - but I often wonder whether anonymous punters on ST act on the comments of other "uncredentialled" anonymous punters on ST ...

I guess I have my answer. I'm staggered.

Good luck with the rest of your holdings.

Dont be staggered Dentie, I have been looking to dump these shares for a while so it wasnt really a spur of the moment decision. It probably just came across that way in my post. I initially believed in the potential of the company but I lost more and more faith in it as time went by. I have no faith in it now I am so pleased to be out and invest my money elsewhere. All good :)

[RupertBear]

Rupert, the ticker is PEBRF, last traded 2.6 cents per right, if you wanted to sell them. Or, you could pay the 10 cents by accepting the rights, and have a smaller position......make your own mind up though

Thanks Xerof I have gotten my head around these rights issues now so I will have a think about what to do :)

[Balance]

Now why would anyone buy the head shares at 13.5c when they can pick up the shares via the rights at 12.6c? Why pay 7.1% more?

Underwriters attempting to hold up the sp so they do not end up sucking on too many?

Thought they would be chomping at the bits to get all the ‘cheap’ shares at 10c via the shortfall. :D

[Carpenterjoe]

Interesting read.

https://centralpennsylvania.mdnews.com/leading-role-clinical-trial-positions-hershey-medical-center-vanguard-urological-care

[Balance]

Interesting read.

https://centralpennsylvania.mdnews.com/leading-role-clinical-trial-positions-hershey-medical-center-vanguard-urological-care

And at this late stage of the commercialization game (5 years old), yet another trial (!!!!!?????) after umpteen number of test programs by the likes of the (much hyped up by PEB) Kaiser Promente?

It's clear where PEB is heading and it's not anywhere soon!

[kiwidollabill]

I can relate (through some other businesses I'm involved with) in that there is often trial programs required in taking new tech to market (so they aren't going to stop) but your earlier pipeline ones should really be coming through now..... great big fat pipeline of opportunity but nothing coming through the other end....

[Balance]

I can relate (through some other businesses I'm involved with) in that there is often trial programs required in taking new tech to market (so they aren't going to stop) but your earlier pipeline ones should really be coming through now..... great big fat pipeline of opportunity but nothing coming through the other end....

Sounds like PEB is suffering from BS constipation?

[blackcap]

Great arbitrage opportunity if you are a PEB holder and want to continue to hold.

You can sell your shares at 13.2 cents and buy back those shares simultaneously at 11.6 cents. That is almost a 13% instant gain for those that want to take it up. Strange times when the market is inefficient.

[Balance]

Great arbitrage opportunity if you are a PEB holder and want to continue to hold.

You can sell your shares at 13.2 cents and buy back those shares simultaneously at 11.6 cents. That is almost a 13% instant gain for those that want to take it up. Strange times when the market is inefficient.

Not inefficient imo.

SP clearly being held up by the underwriters on the one hand, and rights getting sold down as the last of the believers decide they are not going to put any more money in.

If the directors and management are not putting their money in and may instead be even selling their rights (past examples), why should anyone believe their BS about how pleased they are to offer yet another wonderful opporunity to buy ever cheaper shares!