GEN - A ski slope

[Enumerate]

With the shutown of the US facility and relocation to Victoria - I expect another dynamic to emerge in BLT.ASX fortunes.

I get the overwhelming impression that Victorian biotech is an extremely close knit community. Dr Dalling, in particular, must be regarded as a "kingmaker" in Victorian biotech.

Once we have some ratification of the science (CoH phase 1 progress) I would expect BLT.ASX to be "in play".

The share register is dominated by retail investors. I think institutional support is required if the market is to be used as a fund raising vechicle (directors need to know at least 50%, say, of an issue will be taken up - only institutional holders have the kind of cash to guarantee this).

I expect minor dilution of the register with the revised terms capital raising. (Max is 30% - I don't think they will get close to this). I will certainly be taking up my entitlement.

What people don't understand is the BLT.ASX has grant money funding the HIV/AIDS trial. This money is to CoH - but it is directed at BLT.ASX theraputics. If investors think that BLT.ASX is dead in the water - they need to think again.

In my estimation THEY ARE WORTH 5cents A SHARE BECAUSE OF THE VALUE OF THE GRANTS TO CoH!! (This factor was not covered in the R&R valuation).

I wish I could sit down and have a conversation with those holders currently selling. I reckon I could convince most of them that they are about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Jolly, BLT.ASX holds the potential to be your best stock pick ever - I remain of the view that this could be a "once in a lifetime" opportunity.

[Enumerate]

The key worry I have over GEN.NZX's RNAi research is - they are keeping things very close to their chest.

Investors are, in effect, being asked to "trust us" (by directors). In fact some statements have gone further - implying the the company will be kaput if the RNAi investigations don't work out.

I would have hoped things would have been a bit more transparent.

Maybe there are patent entitlement issues as to why things are kept secret.

At the least the BLT.ASX position is perfectly clear (both IP background and theraputic development). From an investment viewpoint - it is much easier to ascribe asset value to BLT.ASX.

But then, I suppose GEN.NZX has a few years of funding behind it - whereas BLT.ASX has no such luxury.

For the industry to get its act together I would suggest the following:

- ANZAC regional initiative to RNAi technology - an RNAi consortium
- Collaboration on gene targets, delivery vectors, "tools and methods"
- Better coordination between public/private
- Better coordination between plant/animal/human research (RNAi is a property of eukaryote cells)

Australia/New Zealand could sieze this new technology and become the global powerhouse of RNAi theraputic development. Money will always be scare - it is necessary to cooperate to compete.

The possibility exists for an new generation Glaxo to emerge.

Tell your MP ... :D

[Enumerate]

Yes, Jolly - this is the so called "safe harbor" provisions. Basically it means you can use other peoples patented IP for defined research purposes without having to pay a license fee. The case quoted expanded the scope of these provisions. Hence BLT.ASX had the Neucleonics case dismissed without prejudice on grounds that Neucleonics had the right to persue their proposed development due to the "safe harbor" provisions.

However, if N does produce a theraputic - BLT.ASX will sue them if they don't have a license agreement and pay a royalty fee. (I have the feeling, in light of the unsuccessful Australian patent challenge - the price may have gone up).[:0]

[Enumerate]

Jorgensen (1990) first demonstrated RNAi in plants. Fire/Mello (1996) demonstrated that double stranded RNAs injected into worm gonads (ouch!) - a known method of introducing trans-genes into nematodes - silenced endogenous gene expression. Graham invented the concept of univeralsity of RNAi in eukaryotes and invented DNA technologies to synthesise siRNAs in cells. Tuschl mapped the molecular biology of RNAi and set the stage for structural definition of siRNAs.

If you are developing therauptics for worms - Fire/Mello have it sewn up (I kmow - I am being flippant here).

The CSIRO/Graham/Benitec patent is the fundamental invention for human theraputics.

Fire/Mello and Tuschl's work is quite narrow - hairpin RNAi (hpRNAi), DNA directed RNAi (ddRNAi) are significant new inventions.

Hence, I believe Benitec has the fundamental IP - RNAi in human cells. You then need a method of targetting a gene - siRNA, ddRNA, hpRNA, etc ... here again, Benetec has significant patents.

Neucleonics are grandstanding - imho. They tried their "prior art" challenge and failed. The Benitec foundation and pillars are still standing.

Finally, a quote:

“[CSIRO's] historic 1998 paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science did more than any other to illuminate the mechanism of gene silencing,”
Dr Andy Fire,
Stanford University

[Enumerate]

The HIV/AIDS lymphoma patient phase 1 has been funded and fully anticipated by the market (GMP manufacturing resumed - awaiting IND and trial start). While delayed, it is much anticipated.

HCV preclinical has been suspended. For me, reactivation of the HCV project would mean money has been found probably through a JV partner. This would be a very significant development and would mark a turnaround in BLT.ASX's finanacial fortunes.

One thing to add is this:

The BLT.ASX theraputics (HIV/AIDS lymphoma and T-cell, HCV) are wonderfully elegant. Their successful execution will mark significant advances in the development of RNAi theraputics.

Much of the more general industry approach to RNAi seems, to me, to be somewhat artificial. For example, Parkinsons theraputics that block production of special proteins that produce a complex that causes the disease do no address the primary disease pathogenesis (oxidiative and nitritive attack on forming protein complexes - in the case of Parkinsons).

Other examples include the many RNAi based attempts on cancer. None of them, I have researched, lead me to believe the fundamental pathogenesis is being addressed.

There are a lot of siRNA investigations against various gene targets. There are alot of rare diseases, of genetic origin, that can be cured by gene inhibition. However, mass diseases like HIV/AIDS and HCV are larger problems in view of the population group they infect and communicability of the disease state.

In short - I am very impressed by the Benitec selection of disease targets.

One final point - the RNAi industry has been plagued by dissent over siRNA toxicity and problems due to generation of an interferon response to siRNA. Benetic programs, using ddRNA, avoid these problems. (Although toxicity QUESTIONS remain - and will be resolved in the clinical trials).

Cancer, the disease of GROWTH, is quite possibly the area where GEN.NZX can contribute. Growth is very very complex. Programmed cell death and immune response also complicate the biology. Each tissue type is unique. I don't see RNAi solutions to cancer, in the first wave of theraputics. However, it is likely RNAi will have an early role in the discovery of gene targets and an understanding of the biological dynamics of cancer.

What a marvellous time to be a biotech investor!

[Enumerate]

How many ShareTraders are comfortable about declaring an active position in BLT.ASX or GEN.NZX?

I, for one, am in both.

[Heavy Metal]

quote:Originally posted by Jolly

With the lack of other party interest in this thread and after having maintained it for so long I think it is probably best to retire it.

I'd like to thank Enumerate for his consummate display of intelligence and knowledge of some rather complex issues. It has been a short lived interaction but most beneficial. I still fail to grasp how a response of nature to artificial stimuli (RNAi) can be patented post cell delivery though.

When persuing ones folly, the lack of support, encouragement or feedback can give cause to some self doubts. After a morph in to a folie a deux I know I can move forward with confidence in my investment within the Oz biotech sector and particularly GEN and BLT.

I hope other GEN shareholders have appreciated my efforts here and have the same confidence. In spite of the press coverage there are good reasons to be confident. It is not prudent to state all I would like to but as they say, good things come to those who wait.

Further I hope from the efforts of both myself and Enumerate, people will take a position in ASX.BLT over the next week before the SPP closes since the price will never be cheaper. A great Christmas will be had by all who do.

The catalyst for this post is it looks like I am to be banned in trying to get the rules of this forum to be applied. Therefore, after logging out I discover I am, anyone interested can catch me at Fixx.co.nz. There is an interesting biofuels thread there which needs developing so people can understand the value of Biojoule.

If I am not banned, then maybe I will still contribute.





A great epitaph. You will not be forgotten.

[winner69]

Rather strange thread now .... enumerate talking to himself

[Heavy Metal]

quote:Originally posted by winner69

Rather strange thread now .... enumerate talking to himself


So nothing's changed then:D

This has always been a strange thread and Enumerate has always been talking to himself.

[Placebo]

How do you know "you are about to be banned"? Do you get a yellow card?

[Enumerate]

Farewell Jolly!

Both you and Donner presented some great insights. It is a great pity that your posts are gone.

I suppose the ANZAC biotech thread is now dead. I am about the last one left arguing for a fundamentals view on biotech prospects.

Seems as if we all end up with the top jokers at the Blackball pub.

[Enumerate]

Here is an excellent mp3 interview with Stephen Hall on the salix biofuels project:

http://www.genesis.co.nz/Press_Releases/documents/ITC.TN-StephenHall-2006.08.15.mp3

Also of note are the statements by Lord Rees (Royal Society head) concerning the need to mobilise international efforts to find carbon recycling fuel alternatives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/5244240.stm

1:16 energy yield + lignin production (plastics replacement)

Genesis is onto a winner here. Roll on the global licence revenues!

[Enumerate]

Just a FYI for anyone interested in Benitec.

For the record, on BLT.ASX:

- Could have been bought for AUD 2.2 cents in the last week.
- No HIV/AIDS IND, as yet, for the lymphoma and T-cell trials
- prelim annual accounts indicate a possible licensing deal on the HCV IP
- No word on the Nucleonics US patent reexam or appeal.

Downside:
- 2.2 cents

Upside:
- something north of 50 cents by 2008
- major RNAi global player by 2010

Risk profile:
- highly speculative
- weak financially
- risks around the IP estate
- risks around the clinical IP
- potential dominant global player in RNAi technologies

/disclosure: hold BLT.ASX and accumulating on weakness

[Capitalist]

Care to comment on the BLT.ASX trading halt; anyone who has relentlessly tried to ramp this stock over the last year?

Must be good news coming out.

Further I hope from the efforts of both myself and Enumerate, people will take a position in ASX.BLT over the next week before the SPP closes since the price will never be cheaper. A great Christmas will be had by all who do.

Snort.

[marinesalvor]

will be a discounted placement cappy - will kill the sp even more

[Enumerate]

My view is that the accounts are delayed because of the complexities involved in shutting down Mountain View, collecting the US financial documents, establishing the Victorian presence and appointing a new CFO.

If the accounts are tagged ... then maybe the snorting and guffawing will have some credibility.

If the accounts are not tagged ... then my simpler explanation is more likely.

We all know BLT.ASX is not overflowing with cash and is in need of some sort of recapitalisation. We have known this for quite some time.

The private placement has been advised (letter recieved when the previously announced placement funds were returned). I am hoping the the dilution will not be major given the new low cost model of the firm.

The key issues are:

- Progress to HIV/AIDS lymphoma and T-cell IND/Phase 1
- Sorting the HCV IP
- The Nucleonics patent re-exam

The best possible news on these three issues is likely to see the stock at 20 to 50 cents.

It is worthwhile noting the Nobel committee awarded the Physiology or Medicine for 2006 to Fire and Mello for the disovery of RNAi. The 2006 Chemistry Nobel was awarded, last week, for the elucidation of RNA transcription in the cell nucleus. The Nobel committee thinks RNA is "hot".

[clearasmud]

Bit of buying action today.Somebody wants these.
looks positive.
We have 2 hopes:RNAi and Scrubby willow boifuel plant progress.
just can't sell a stock below cash backing so i'll wait with my small holding.

[clearasmud]

In the half yearly report:
"The Genesis sp has continued to be well below the nta value.
The product development program that Genesis is pursuing would suggest that the sp is significantly undervalued.the lack of analysis by NZ media and brokers means it is not easy to attract investor support but commercial progress over the next 12-24 mths is likely to demonstrate the inherent value within Genesis"
http://sa.iguana2.com/cache/c82cc2725a5396063a1ac64183add312/ASX-GEN-424444.pdf

[clearasmud]

Are these guys finally going to answer shareholder concerns?
A bit late you may be thinking...

[Enumerate]

Genesis have proven experience with lung and skin tissue. It is not too much of a guess to suggest the RNAi therapeutic they are considering involves these tissue types. TB? Asthma? could be the target. siRNA design is important - but delivery modality is how money will be made in the therapeutic. The following bodes well:


quote:
Genesis has produced siRNA designs for its molecular targets that are highly potent and has achieved delivery to the appropriate tissues and cells of interest. Forward plans are focused on selecting a final candidate for clinical development, undertaking toxicology studies, producing GMP material and commencing a clinical trial.


The allergy programme was against skin tissue. Here regulation of growth and apotosis were the key science discoveries behind the failed trials. I'd speculate that skin cancer is the target. Cancer is a disease of growth and no one knows more about growth of skin tissue than Genesis. This also bodes well:


quote:
The progress with RNAi technology in the allergy programme gave us confidence to establish an cancer therapeutic programme. This has been under development for the last year and is expected to provide another major pipeline for the portfolio. It has passed initial validation milestones and is now being expanded.


The first four FGFR consist of three immunoglobulin like domains. Hence it would appear that this growth factor is is triggered by an immune system response. Given that FGFR-5 triggers bone growth - this could be very important. The following poster details some background.


quote:
Zyrogen (FGFR5) is the fifth member of the fibroblast growth factor receptor family and is expressed on bone marrow stromal cells. These cells are rich in secreted and cell surface proteins that influence the development and mature functioning of bone and the immune system. The expression of Zyrogen by stromal cells suggested that it might play a similar role. Its biological effects have therefore been studied in a series of in vitro and in vivo experiments. These studies have revealed that Zyrogen is not only a key regulator of bone development in zebrafish, but also a potent immune stimulant that induces an SLE-like disorder when administered to mice. These data suggest that Zyrogen may be a potential therapeutic target for bone disorders such as osteoporosis, and autoimmune disorders such as SLE.


Finally, the BioJoule programme. I am seriously surprised that some announcement has not been made about progressing the pilot plant. This is a seriously good idea and should be worthy of some Gov't funding ... Maybe time to raise some market capital or do a JV to get this in the water, guys?


quote:
The biofuels programme has demonstrated the viability of producing ethanol, unsulphonated lignin and xylose from fast growing shrubby willow. project has significant commercial potential, both in New Zealand and internationally.


I see value in this company. What would comfort me is if they can prove they can commercialise an idea/technology. The research is great. Even if they outlicensed prior to Phase 1 - this would go along way to reassuring shareholders that this is a commercial company.

[Enumerate]

I'd suggest that the Labour Party interest in taking proactive steps against global warming is seriously good news for Genesis BioJoule.

[Enumerate]

quote:Originally posted by Enumerate

Just a FYI for anyone interested in Benitec.

For the record, on BLT.ASX:

- Could have been bought for AUD 2.2 cents in the last week.
- No HIV/AIDS IND, as yet, for the lymphoma and T-cell trials
- prelim annual accounts indicate a possible licensing deal on the HCV IP
- No word on the Nucleonics US patent reexam or appeal.

Downside:
- 2.2 cents

Upside:
- something north of 50 cents by 2008
- major RNAi global player by 2010

Risk profile:
- highly speculative
- weak financially
- risks around the IP estate
- risks around the clinical IP
- potential dominant global player in RNAi technologies

/disclosure: hold BLT.ASX and accumulating on weakness


Just an update - for anyone interested.

- Final accounts are out - untagged - although a capital raising is indicated as a necessity
- the HCV therapeutic was licensed to Tacere

Opening price on the ASX - AUD 4.8 cents
Closing price in Frankfurt - Euro "cents" 4.5

[BigBob]

The question now is whether GEN is on anybody's radar....?

Merck to Buy Biotech Firm for $1.1B (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061030/merck_sirna.html?.v=5)

[Bling_Bling]

There is nothing new with biofuel. It can easily be produced, even with a backyard kit at home. Easy entry into this industry. The problem I see is that no one believes in GEN anymore. The management has told too many fibs in the past.

[BigBob]

quote:
Originally posted by Bling_Bling

The problem I see is that no one believes in GEN anymore. The management has told too many fibs in the past.



Can you give us some examples of these "fibs" that have been told by management??

[Enumerate]

I like GEN.NZX and am a current holder who has recently increased my stake.

The company has had a problematic past:

- failure of 2 phase 1 trials of an ezcema treatment
- intellectual property dispute on the ag side over core AgriGenesis IP

Its current situation is that it has a number of new RNAi therapeutics in the pipeline. It has BioJoule. I have posted an assessment of these above.

The BioJoule process is subject to patent protection. It involves the production of ethanol, lignin for plastics substitution and a sugar suitable for diabetics supporting an established global market.

The notion that BioJoule could be subject to competition from backyard operators is absurd.

I am always happy to share my information and perspectives on this interesting company.

I understand that sharescene.com.au discusses GEN.ASX (FPO of GEN.NZX) and FIXX.co.nz talks about BioJoule. Information might be available at these sources that is otherwise unavailable on www.sharetrader.co.nz ...

[Enumerate]

quote:Originally posted by BigBob

The question now is whether GEN is on anybody's radar....?

Merck to Buy Biotech Firm for $1.1B (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061030/merck_sirna.html?.v=5)



The deal you cite is big news in global biotech. It presages a re-rating of RNAi technology companies, of which GEN.NZX is NZ's only listed exemplar.

You should also look at BLT.ASX - the holder of the Graham '099 patent (currently in re-exam) and developer of HCV and HIV/AIDS RNAi based therapeutics.

I wouldn't look forward to much insight or interest in RNAi in www.sharetrader.co.nz. There is a more active thread on www.sharescene.com.au under the BLT.ASX thread.

[Enumerate]

quote:Originally posted by Enumerate

Just a FYI for anyone interested in Benitec.

For the record, on BLT.ASX:

- Could have been bought for AUD 2.2 cents in the last week.
- No HIV/AIDS IND, as yet, for the lymphoma and T-cell trials
- prelim annual accounts indicate a possible licensing deal on the HCV IP
- No word on the Nucleonics US patent reexam or appeal.

Downside:
- 2.2 cents

Upside:
- something north of 50 cents by 2008
- major RNAi global player by 2010

Risk profile:
- highly speculative
- weak financially
- risks around the IP estate
- risks around the clinical IP
- potential dominant global player in RNAi technologies

/disclosure: hold BLT.ASX and accumulating on weakness


Just a quick update:

BLT.ASX closed at AUD 8.1 cents, yesterday. This is down from a recent high of AUD 10.5 cents ...

Press articles in The Age and The Australian following on from the Merck / Sirna deal. However, the shareprice surge started before the Sirna deal was announced as is attributed, by directors, to a market realisation that BLT.ASX turn around efforts are well advanced.

Watch GEN.NZX - the only other australasian RNAi player ...

[Enumerate]

BLT.ASX closed at AUD 9 cents yesterday. Frankfurt closed at EURO 10 cents.

Good news for BLT.ASX is also good news for GEN.NZX.

Looks like Donner and Jolly shouldn't have been banned - 20 cents by Christmas is looking all the more reasonable.

[tsb]

Caught an interesting item on National Radio about the biofuel trail in Taupo

Key items as I remember them were:-

one time planting instead of annual planting
use of marginal lands
no fertiliser pollution – important toTaupo
Use of thermal energy for processing
Ethanol production viable when oil is $50 (presumably US) a barrel
Useful by products as well as Ethanol

[BigBob]

I think today is the day to dredge this old thread up and thank enumerate for his comments about BLT.AX (unfortunately my order at 0.5c for BLTO was never filled - I was 0.1c out!!)......

The heads are up a tad over 200% today and the options a mere 1000%.... Pretty decent volume too.... RNAi deal with Pfitzer announced....

Haven't we got a company listed on the NZX that dabbles in RNAi too...?

[ognid]

Big Thank you to Jolly wherever you are. As well as taking your spray i also took your advice on BLT.

See you in Rio.

KKKChing.

[Enumerate]

Thanks go to Stolwyk (sp?), Donner and Jolly ...

BLT.ASX should be a very interesting stock in 2007 ...

GEN.NZX is the only NZ biotech that has an RNAi profile ...

[Capitalist]

What is more interesting is how Donner/Jolly/Enumerate/Ognid tried to slander and defame Citigroup and myself in respect of this stock to advance their own interests with no proof whatsoever.

Donner's/Jolly's posts were deleted for this reason.

Go figure about who is the insider [xx(][xx(][xx(]

[ognid]

Capitalist, a polite retraction is in order i think. I have never mentioned you or citigroup in any of my posts. Have a read through the posts.

i think if anyone is slandering or defaming its you, mentioning me on the above list.

I am surprised you can make accusations without checking the posts or remembering the dialogue.

[Enumerate]

I speculate that it is now "game on" for BLT.ASX. It looks as if a take over is underway. Further, it is likely that this a "hostile" move by potentially a large pharma playing RNAi "catch up".

Congrats to all holders. If you mastered the complexities of this stock and built a position it is likely that you saw, clearly, the technical significance of RNAi and the value of the Graham '099.

It is unfortunate that some people choose to cast aspersions and mutter about "insider trading" rather than acknowledge technology insight, intuition and detailed research.

BLT.ASX remains a long term hold. I would strongly resist the urge to "trade" for short term gain on this one. There is just too much potentially good news in the pipeline to risk being "out of the market". Let us hope that we are all in a position to be long term holders of this stock when the RNAi technology boom of about 2010 gathers full momentum.

Any interest in the RNAi prospects of GEN.NZX?

[Enumerate]

quote:Originally posted by Capitalist

What is more interesting is how Donner/Jolly/Enumerate/Ognid tried to slander and defame Citigroup and myself in respect of this stock to advance their own interests with no proof whatsoever.
Donner's/Jolly's posts were deleted for this reason.
Go figure about who is the insider [xx(][xx(][xx(]


It is outrageous that I am now accused of slander and defamation.

Please quote any post of mine in which evidence of this can be proved.

Further, it is you who have accused me of ramping! If I was talking up this stock with the intention of selling (the definition of ramping) I would prove to be very foolish, indeed.

Now there is indirect muttering about insider trading.

This is another affront! Given that I am most certainly not a Benitec insider (I am not even in the same country) I simply cannot tolerate this abuse.

Why cannot Capitalist simply credit insight and hard work? It is all laid out in front of you in terms of the posts ... (here I refer to to the work of Stolwyk, Donner, Jolly et al).

I am not expecting any honorable response - having demanded an apology for refuting the "ramping accusation" and having simply received more abuse for my trouble.

[Enumerate]

quote:Originally posted by Jolly - "The Jolly Epitaph"
Further I hope from the efforts of both myself and Enumerate, people will take a position in ASX.BLT over the next week before the SPP closes since the price will never be cheaper. A great Christmas will be had by all who do.


Jolly was banned. I wonder, in the end, whether thread followers would have been better off following his posts rather than burying them?

I wonder if the person responsible for his banning as made an equally significant contribution to this, or any other, thread?

[duncan macgregor]

ENUMERATE, We seem to be at cross purposes you and I. When i look up the charts to see where BLT&GEN have been, and where they are heading, i shake my head in bewiderment at anyone stupid enough to ride them down. I dont care if a company sells bibles or weapons of mass destruction, as long as they give me a decent profit. That is the only reason i invest in shares. I really dont care if a company goes into a downtrend, as long as i am astute enough to get out.
We are here to invest in shares make money, nothing else, that is our number one priority. Do it the best way you can.
To be successfull in business requires objectivity, get rid of your namby pamby preferences be cold hard and calculating.[}:)]macdunk

[Enumerate]

Macdunk, I actually agree with your comments (you may be surprised to hear). However, I think we might be talking about the wrong BLT. (I am referring to BLT.ASX (Benitec) and not BLT.NZX (Blis)).

I am even prepared to defend GEN.NZX. I believe that despite the failure of the two eczema trials and the botch up over agrigenesis IP - that the company has a number of interesting research threads (RNAi and Biojoule being the most significant). Indeed, it also has cash!

I have been adding to my holdings in both stocks and have made paper profits in both. (Massively more in BLT.ASX, as expected).

Our difference is based on the TA/FA differing views of the world. I never use "stop losses", I never buy based on price trends; I only focus on the fundamentals and the long term. I am looking for a deep and meaningful relationship with a stock over a (hopefully) very long time frame.

I will acknowledge that I tend to "buy too early" and "sell too early". This is where I am forced to conceed your points. If I took more of a TA view, I would probably make slightly more money on the stocks I choose - but I fear I would choose the wrong stocks!!

Anyway, lots of opportunities (and debate) can be expected in 2007!

[Lizard]

Hi Enumerate. Well done on ASX:BLT. I followed a smattering of your posts on the topic and found them interesting, but was not brave enough to invest. Glad to see it perform for you!

I also like the "in too early, out too early" style of investing - it seems more personally satisfying than following the crowd.

[Enumerate]

Lizard, the game is not done on BLT.ASX. The price is back to the level it was in late 2005. However, it is clear that if the Graham '099 survives the re-examination, the company will be worth considerably more than 20cents. There are also a number of pieces of good news in the pipeline - City of Hope IND for AIDS lymphoma, T-cell pre-clinical, Nucleonics litigation resolution. Now there is the hope of new license/royalty deals based on the Pfizer research licenses.

I recommend BLT.ASX as a stock to investigate. I am looking for AUD$5 per share (current capitalisation) based on the assumption of rapid allocation of drug development money to RNAi technologies by 2010.

My view is that we are seeing the start of a boom (RNAi technology) that is significantly more important than the .com boom of 1999/2000 was to information technology.

Further, in my view the Benitec patent estate gives them a globally significant position on the application of RNAi technologies.


quote: From Benitec web site
Extract from Comapanies & Markets, Jain PharmaBiotech, August 2006

RNAi patents - Among the companies, Alnylam and Benitec have strong patent positions.

On 5 June 2003, Benitec Ltd was granted its core technology patents in the US and the UK. These patents, with priority dating to 1998, describe a method for silencing any gene in any cell using ddRNAi. US Patent 6,573,099 is entitled "Genetic constructs for delaying or repressing the expression of a target gene" and UK Patent 2353282 is entitled "Control of gene expression". Both patents contain world first claims that describe the effect of RNAi in human cells and the DNA constructs which trigger RNAi.

Benitec Ltd, originally founded in Australia in 1997 (listed on Australian Stock Exchange), pioneered ddRNAi and was the first company to demonstrate RNAi in human cells. It holds a dominant international intellectual property position in RNAi...


If you think a company may ultimately be worth $5 per share - buying at 2.4cents is nice; buying at 24cents is less nice - but it is still worth doing.

GEN.NZX is still interesting. It will be swept along with the RNAi boom but it does not have the fundamental IP position of Benitec.

[BigBob]

Did anyone hear the bit on the news on National Radio about Richard Branson looking into investing in NZ biofuel projects....? Apparently of the three projects he discussed with the Govt, one is based on using shrubby willow to produce biofuel.....

Sounds like GEN's BioJoule to me.....

[Bling_Bling]

How many years does it take to grow the shrubby willow to maturity for it to be harvested to produce BioJoule?

Has GEN patented the IP for the processing of the Willows?

[Enumerate]

quote:[i]Originally posted by Bling_Bling
How many years does it take to grow the shrubby willow to maturity for it to be harvested to produce BioJoule?

Has GEN patented the IP for the processing of the Willows?


Within 2 years a salix bush can grow 20 metres. The technique GEN.NZX propose is "copicing" (SP?) - growing shoots from a "stump" and harvesting using a combine harvester each year.

GEN.NZX have produced a salix cultivar and have patents on the process of separation of the cellulose (ethanol precursor) from the lignin. The process produces lignin (for plastics replacement) and xylose (a valuable sugar).

Stephen Hall quotes energy gain of 1:14 (compared with 1:1.7 for corn).

Salix also grows on marginal land and hence is a viable biomass crop for areas unsuitable for anything else.

[Bling_Bling]

How many years before it can be commercialise?

What do you mean by energy gain 1.14?

[BigBob]

quote: How many years before it can be commercialise?

They have previsously announced that they are seeking financing to take their "biofuel technologies to pilot refinery stage". So presumably a couple of years rather than decades...


quote: What do you mean by energy gain 1.14?

As far as I understand it you get 14 units of energy out for every 1 unit you put in...

[Enumerate]

Yes, that is correct - you get 14 units of energy for every 1 unit put in.

Contrast this with corn - they get less than 2 units of energy out for every unit of energy invested. (However, they also get corn production as the current generation ethanol plant processes the corn stalk cellulose). Ethanol plants (at about $50million each) are being built all across the US corn belt.

[Enumerate]

In terms of commercialisation - the next stage is to build an industrial scale ethanol production plant. They have established a salix plantation - they have proven the process at lab scale - patent protection has been sought.

Another interesting NZ twist is the plan to use geothermal energy in the production process.

[Bling_Bling]

quote:Originally posted by Enumerate

Yes, that is correct - you get 14 units of energy for every 1 unit put in.

Contrast this with corn - they get less than 2 units of energy out for every unit of energy invested. (However, they also get corn production as the current generation ethanol plant processes the corn stalk cellulose). Ethanol plants (at about $50million each) are being built all across the US corn belt.


Corn grows much faster than willow trees, so the energy process will have to be much lower to make it commercially viable. This is very interesting indeed and i may look further into it. Will do some due diligence myself and if i like what i see i may invest in this dog. If only we can invest in this IP as pure play instead of GEN. If GEN will spin this off as a separate entity to raise funds, Bling will open up his wallet.

If this project can be commercialise, it will take at least a number of years. I assume 2-3 for the project plant to be approved and maybe another 3-4 years to set up a willow farm for mature havesting? Oil prices will also have to be at a certain high level to make biofuel a alternative choice for consumers.

Here is another biofuel that maybe of interest.
http://xtramsn.co.nz/businessandmoney/0,,13273-6819994,00.html

[Steve]

Could be worth a speculative punt that GEN pulls a rabbit out of the hat in the next 2 years...

Biotechnology company has two years' cash to burn (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10424420)
The sale of forestry technology helped deliver a rare profit at biotechnology company Genesis - which now has two years worth of cash to burn.

[COLIN]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

Could be worth a speculative punt that GEN pulls a rabbit out of the hat in the next 2 years...

Biotechnology company has two years' cash to burn (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10424420)
The sale of forestry technology helped deliver a rare profit at biotechnology company Genesis - which now has two years worth of cash to burn.

I gave up years ago, on this one. The chances of winning the Lotto jackpot are greater.

[Contrarian]

Gidday
Positive TV article right before One news last night.

[Enumerate]

GEN.NZX is a very interesting company. BioJoule looks like something may happen (jv formed with TLDA). A number of oncology therapeutics based on RNAi - which is hot at the moment.

However, the company is not very communicative. Making a reasonable assessment of their prospects, based on the information provided, is impossible.

Look at the ASX announcement for GEN.ASX - you always get better information on the ASX. 37cents per share - about a two year cash burn.

There is enough time to get the RNAi or bone growth pre-clinicals into phase 1.

Why oh why don't they release more information ...

[Enumerate]

There are a number of interesting possibilities that could restore value at GEN.NZX.

Apparently the RNAi programmes are new discoveries based on controlling tumour growth independent of tissue type. With Andy Gearing as the chief scientific officer (rep JW) the focus on human health in general, and cancer in particular, is not surprising.

GEN.NZX is trading at less than cash backing making it a brilliant punt.

[Steve]

What are the chances that they can pull something off before running out of cash? If they need to source some cash in the future, it could be difficult given the recent history...

[Enumerate]

quote:Originally posted by Steve
What are the chances that they can pull something off before running out of cash? If they need to source some cash in the future, it could be difficult given the recent history...


The following are quotes from the company.


quote:
Genesis has produced siRNA designs for its molecular targets that are highly potent and has achieved delivery to the appropriate tissues and cells of interest. Forward plans are focused on selecting a final candidate for clinical development, undertaking toxicology studies, producing GMP material and commencing a clinical trial.




quote:
The progress with RNAi technology in the allergy programme gave us confidence to establish an cancer therapeutic programme. This has been under development for the last year and is expected to provide another major pipeline for the portfolio. It has passed initial validation milestones and is now being expanded.


The following poster details some background on Zyrogen:


quote:
Zyrogen (FGFR5) is the fifth member of the fibroblast growth factor receptor family and is expressed on bone marrow stromal cells. These cells are rich in secreted and cell surface proteins that influence the development and mature functioning of bone and the immune system. The expression of Zyrogen by stromal cells suggested that it might play a similar role. Its biological effects have therefore been studied in a series of in vitro and in vivo experiments. These studies have revealed that Zyrogen is not only a key regulator of bone development in zebrafish, but also a potent immune stimulant that induces an SLE-like disorder when administered to mice. These data suggest that Zyrogen may be a potential therapeutic target for bone disorders such as osteoporosis, and autoimmune disorders such as SLE.


BioJoule programme:


quote:
The biofuels programme has demonstrated the viability of producing ethanol, unsulphonated lignin and xylose from fast growing shrubby willow. project has significant commercial potential, both in New Zealand and internationally.


Let me see - GEN.NZX have 2 likely human RNAi based therapeutics in humans entering pre-clinical. They have the Zytrogen program and BioJoule technology. The indications are that one of the RNAi targets is against tumour growth independent of tissue type based on, potentially, a new fundamental discovery. While everything RNAi is hot - this could, potentially, be super-hot.

Projects can be out-sourced to others for royalty and license revenue at pre-clinical, phase 1, phase 2, etc. Clearly, the more developed a project - the more it is worth. If patent protection can be gained for a significant or fundamental discovery - this could spawn many projects. I would speculate that GEN.NZX are seeking patent protection for their RNAi cancer technology and this is the reason for "secrecy" on the details.

To value a discovery biotech - you have to look at the pipeline. GEN.NZX has a very significant pipeline.

Also, the fact you can buy them at less than cash backing represents another point of leverage.

/Disclosure:

[Enumerate]

BioJoule profiled in the Economist ...

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8766061

.. tips hat to Plastic on Sharescene ..

[Enumerate]

The GEN.NZX annual report is downloadable from www.asx.com.au ...

It is an excellent report. I particularly recommend the CEO's report which details the state of projects and the IP estate. Included in this are a number of pearls of wisdom on Biotech investing. Strongly recommended, basic reading ...

[Lizard]

Thanks Enumerate. I'd never even realised they had an ASX listing. :)

[Enumerate]

The ASX announcements are always more complete than the NZX ones. The statutory reports are also much better, from an investor perspective, to those demanded by the NZX.

[Lizard]

quote:Originally posted by Enumerate

The ASX announcements are always more complete than the NZX ones. The statutory reports are also much better, from an investor perspective, to those demanded by the NZX.


Given a comparable choice, I will always pick a dual listed share to a NZX only, as I perceive the risk level to be lower due to the more timely availability of complete information to the small investor.

[Enumerate]

/agree

[Lizard]

Yesterdays announcement regards the manufcture of green plastics from lignin only sparked a couple of tiny buys, but the media coverage seems to have created a little more interest this morning. :)

[Enumerate]

quote:
GENERAL: GEN: Green Plastic Produced from BioJoule Material

Auckland, New Zealand, 12th July, 2007 - Genesis Research and Development
Corporation Ltd (NZSX/ASX: GEN) today reported that expanded polyurethane
foam has been produced from natural lignin extracted from shrubby willow
grown by its subsidiary BioJoule.

The natural lignin was tested by a potential international customer and
excellent results were shown for thermal conductivity and density. The
customer has indicated interest in purchasing commercial quantities at a
price that is consistent with the economic modelling developed by BioJoule.

The initial samples of lignin have been prepared by small pilot scale
processing. As BioJoule achieves further funding it intends to build a larger
pilot scale processing plant that would allow process design and operating
parameters to be optimised and would then enable construction of a commercial
refinery.

BioJoule Managing Director, Dr Jim Watson, said, "The production of urethane
foam shows the potential to manufacture 'green' plastics from shrubby willow
that is sustainably produced in coppicable plantations. This has the
potential to reduce the need for petrochemicals in polyurethane production,
thus improving the carbon footprint. BioJoule is also expanding its programme
to review the use of lignin in a range of composite plastics. The opportunity
to grow shrubby willow on low value land to produce ethanol as a transport
fuel and other high value by-products such as lignin and xylose has the
potential to solve a number of environmental and economic issues for New
Zealand. A number of international groups have shown interest in
collaborating with BioJoule."

"The use of Salix, which has a very high energy capture and conversion
balance, and the production of multiple high-value products, is expected to
create a much more economic biofuel business than using food grade corn to
produce ethanol alone."


Announcement producing some market interest ...

[BigBob]

For what it's worth GEN at 35 is at a 52 week high.....

Maybe someone listened to National Radio today...:

http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/national/ntn/willows_and_biofuels

[Lizard]

Someone makes a bit of money on the trans-tasman arbitrage on this one...buying today on the ASX to fill the sells on the NZX.

[Codfish]

The Shareholder Newsletter of 25th of May 2007 stated;

"We have transferred our biofuel/biomaterials project into a new company, BioJoule Limited, which recently raised $0.5 million from external investors, and is in negotiation with other parties for further substantial funding. Geneisis currently owns 65% of BioJoule but expects this to reduce as new investment from other parties is achieved."

So, $0.5m bought 35% of BioJoule back in May. Hopefully the "other parties" will get a lot less for their "further substantial funding" now.

[Lizard]

Without looking this up - going off some rough notes - I think $500k bought 500,000 shares in Biojoule out of a total of 5,750,000. Or about 8.7%. The remaining 1,500,000 was already held by LTDC.

[Codfish]

Thanks Lizard.

It's comforting to know Genesis can raise "substantial funding" and hold onto at least 51% of BioJoule!

[Codfish]

Genesis have detailed their shareholding in BioJoule in the half year results.

"In 2006, AgriGenesis and Lake Taupo Development Company Limited ("LTDC") jointly established BioJoule Limited. BioJoule is focused on the growth of
shrubby Salix as feedstock for use in commercial bio-refining to produce products derived from cellulose, lignin and hemicellulose. Assets
including know-how, technology and patents were transferred to BioJoule by the parties. In consideration for the transfer of assets, BioJoule was incorporated with 3,500,000 founder shares issued to AgriGenesis, and 1,500,000 issued to LTDC. AgriGenesis committed to provide $250,000 initial working capital to BioJoule. In 2007, the total advance of $250,000 was converted to equity.

Also in 2007, two new shareholders each subscribed for $250,000 new equity in BioJoule, which diluted the interest held by AgriGenesis from 70% at 31
December 2006 to 65.2% at 30 June 2007. (30 June 2006, nil)."

[Codfish]

Genesis were a little coy with their latest announcement but MorphoSys issued fuller version.

http://tinyurl.com/2rywx3

Clearly German shareholders of MorphoSys want full details of any deal. So by implication Genesis shareholders aren't interested in anything but the bottom line! :rolleyes:

[Lizard]

They make Genesis sound more impressive than the company we've come to know :):


Genesis Research is a New Zealand-based biotechnology company, listed on the New Zealand and Australian stock exchanges. Since Genesis was established in 1994, it has built a broad therapeutic development platform targeting immune disorders and cancer and is developing RNAi therapeutics. Genesis has undertaken ten clinical trials in NewZealand and other countries, including seven at phase II, in collaboration with a number of international companies including Immunex (now Amgen) and Corixa (now GSK). Genesis has also worked with CSL, EvoGenix, Jurox and other Australian groups. Genesis has 4 issued patents on FGFR5 and several other patents pending that make claims to the therapeutic use of FGFR5 or FGFR5 antagonists in a variety of disorders.

Genesis should borrow the MorphoSys PR people!

[warthog]

They make Genesis sound more impressive than the company we've come to know :):



Genesis should borrow the MorphoSys PR people!

The hog doesn't read "more impressive" from the release at all, but it is very good nonetheless, for credibility and brevity.

The Morphosys release is terse, factual and straightforward. There is some reference to brands obviously, but the restraint is very carefully measured.

Contrast with typical NZ poorly/obviously spun releases.

[marinesalvor]

Morphosys is run by a kiwi and he has been down here a bit - was even in Unlimited mag expat section. Basically Morphosys sells stuff to GEN... this is not really an announcement worth anything

am wondering if GEN have enough money to even get a compound past pre-clinical

[BlackPeter]

Hello world! - Not sure whether this is the right thread .. but I have to start somewhere, and it is titled Genesis (GEN)!

The discussion around Genesis is probably well correlated with its share value (i.e. looks tiny). I was just wondering whether anybody out there has an opinion on the proposed sale of their BioJoule shares? I guess it is probably a good idea to get some sort of regular income through PPG shares (if these are any good), but on the other hand do they give another successful looking project out of their hand (one down, two to go). Is this the start of the endgame or just playing safe to fund their other projects? Any opinions?

[Codfish]

I was just wondering whether anybody out there has an opinion on the proposed sale of their BioJoule shares? I guess it is probably a good idea to get some sort of regular income through PPG shares (if these are any good), but on the other hand do they give another successful looking project out of their hand (one down, two to go). Is this the start of the endgame or just playing safe to fund their other projects? Any opinions?

Well, here's my tuppenceworth!

As a Genesis shareholder I'm sorry to see Biojoule go. But, sentiment aside, I think they may have played their cards well in this instance. Gen is in no position to see the project through. They are in the SP doghouse because they burn cash prospecting for long term gold, the last thing they need is another drain on cash. This deal is timely and gives them around $4m cash and nearly 1m shares in PPG. Cash now and a potential income stream in a few years.

This may or may not be fair value but it's better than the likely alternate scenario of mothballing the technology due to lack of adequate backing. In the absence of another player entering a bid I think it's the best they can realistically do.

CF

[BlackPeter]

Anybody still watching this stock? Had a remarkable recovery 10 cts -> 18 cts in only one week! All uphill from here??

[mondograss]

No, volume is far too light, just a few people paying too much for little parcels. Any real recovery would be accompanied by a reasonable lift in volumes. Back of the envelope calculation says the value of the shares traded in the last week was less than $12000.

[Steve]

Come on Mondo, let BP have the hope that the shareprice has started its climb back up to his entry price... ;)

How much cash does GEN currently have on hand nowdays?

[BlackPeter]

Come on Mondo, let BP have the hope that the shareprice has started its climb back up to his entry price... ;)

How much cash does GEN currently have on hand nowdays?

cheers for being that considerate for my hopes and feelings - though I bought a good part of the small parcel I hold well below 18 cts!
NTA is from memory around 33 cts per share - I guess the big question is whether their remaining 2 projects show success (or attract external funding) before they run out of cash ...

[boxing_beaver]

It's a shame a promising (at launch anyway) NZ Biotech company like this has since floundered. Some of my friends are former employees (most recent left about a year ago) and would not recommend this stock at all (possibly bitter former employees? maybe :P) I agree with this sentiment and would also recommend staying away from all nz biotech stock that isnt performing research directly for agriculture etc

[BlackPeter]

..... talking about the need for more money and options sales at the annual meeting. I guess they probably should wait for the bear market to go away before they start their fundraising. Looks like their cash reserves are still good for 2 years of operation.

[BlackPeter]

GEN
29/07/2008
GENERAL

REL: 0932 HRS Genesis Research and Development Corporation Limited

GENERAL: GEN: New Future for Kiwifruit

Genetic Data from HortResearch and Genesis Research Promises New Future for
Kiwifruit: Fruit Scientists Uncover DNA behind Colour, Flavour, Shape,
Nutrition and Ripening
Auckland, New Zealand, 28 July 2008. Kiwifruit lovers can look forward to
new, novel forms of their favourite fruit thanks to the release this week of
crucial genetic data which fruit breeders say will help them naturally breed
new varieties with increased health properties and exciting colours and
flavours.
Researchers at New Zealand-based fruit science company HortResearch and
listed New Zealand biotech company Genesis Research and Development
Corporation Limited (NZSX/ASX: GEN) announced today that they would complete
the public release of the world's most extensive collection of kiwifruit DNA
sequences.
The release comprises over 130,000 kiwifruit gene sequences - referred to by
scientists as expressed sequence tags (ESTs). These are DNA sequences from
active genes in the plant; genes that govern such characteristics as flavour,
colour, shape, vitamin content and aspects of fruit development such as
ripening and storage life.
HortResearch and Genesis released a similar number of apple ESTs in March
2006. Those genes are now part of HortResearch's world-renowned apple and
pear breeding programme.
A paper detailing the discovery and analysis of the Kiwifruit ESTs was
published today by US-based peer-reviewed journal BMC Genomics. See
www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/9/351
End CA:00167921 For:GEN Type:GENERAL Time:2008-07-29:09:32:35

-----
Question:
Anybody knew about Genesis analysing the Kiwifruit Genom? I would have thought they have all hands full just progressing their remaining two health projects they always talk about?

[Dr_Who]

I am surprise this dog is still standing.

[dragonz]

I am surprise this dog is still standing.

Why? Seems to be moving its products from developement stage to 1st stage clinical trails. The exciting stage is just begining.

Cash flow could be a major problem though if an income stream is not found soon.

Has a NTA of 24.68 - currant share price 1/2 of this.

Anybody know what assets these are? Does intellectual property qualify as a "Net Tangible Asset" ?

Contructive comments welcomed.

D

[RazorX]

According to the latest annual report they have ceased operations due to lack of funding. S/P around 3 cents. Any future from here? I don't think so unless there is something approaching a miracle.

[Lizard]

Wow, a real back-door listing biotech with real clinical trial type stuff going on.... the NZX hasn't seen that since......, well since GEN listed! :)

Okay, so some more stuff on Mariposa:
http://www.mariposahealth.com.au/TA270.php
http://www.novuscapital.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=198&Itemid=179
http://www.proactiveinvestors.com.au/companies/news/24065/genesis-research-and-development-corporation-to-merge-with-mariposa-health--24065.html

So flagging more capital raising to support clinical trials... looks more targeted at the Aus investment market, so will be interesting to see if dual listing is maintained.

[Lizard]

Well looks like the GEN ski slope finally took them over the cliff... all but one director now gone, due to insolvency.

[percy]

lol, you may very well think that, but I couldn't possibly say! ;)

Great posts David B , Sparky The Clown , and Lizard. Keep them up. lol

[percy]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/386510

A very positive announcement.

[BigBob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/386510

A very positive announcement.

This thread is for a different GEN, I think... 🙂

The infamous Genesis Research and Development, which disappeared without a trace years ago...

[percy]

This thread is for a different GEN, I think... 🙂

The infamous Genesis Research and Development, which disappeared without a trace years ago...

Can not find the correct thread.
So GEN General Capital..?
Interesting placement at 5.75cps while the last trade on market was 4.9 cents.