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ari
15-11-2005, 07:00 PM
Has anyone had experience of 'unconditional agreement' on house property turning to ****e. In this case, 10% deposit 15 days over due with settlement another 9 days away.

minimoke
15-11-2005, 07:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by ari

Has anyone had experience of 'unconditional agreement' on house property turning to ****e. In this case, 10% deposit 15 days over due with settlement another 9 days away.

Sounds like best you get your solicitor onto it straight away. It sounds like you have the "Offer and Acceptance" part sorted but the deposit thing will be problematic. This is usually the Consideration part of a contract - without it there is no contract: no contract, nothing to enforce!

duncan macgregor
15-11-2005, 07:34 PM
YES 3 within a couple of miles from each other. first one $25000 deposit buyers divorcing sellers moved out then back in again luckily didnt go unconditional themselves real estate agent kept $23000 of the $ 25000 dollars the rotten bastards leaving them to fight it out in court. The second one a mortgagee auction 10 pc deposit turned to custard but saved the bacon for the owner. the third one lady had her property on the market went unconditional on a hotel no bids at the auction lost her deposit on the hotel. that one was on location location. all within a five mile radius in five months. Its not sold until the money is in the bank. macdunk

ari
16-11-2005, 09:56 AM
quote:This is usually the Consideration part of a contract - without it there is no contract: no contract, nothing to enforce!
Don't think so.....once unconditional buyer has contractual obligations to fill, even if it means off to the court, which I believe are dealt with fairly swiftly these days.

minimoke
16-11-2005, 10:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by ari


quote:This is usually the Consideration part of a contract - without it there is no contract: no contract, nothing to enforce!
Don't think so.....once unconditional buyer has contractual obligations to fill, even if it means off to the court, which I believe are dealt with fairly swiftly these days.

And this may the heart of the problem - if they haven't paid the deposit, how can it be unconditional?

ari
16-11-2005, 12:27 PM
quote: if they haven't paid the deposit, how can it be unconditional?
Conditional to finance...and purchasers solicitor has confirmed that
'Finance condition...satisfied this day'

Winston001
19-11-2005, 08:46 PM
Yes I can help Ari. The sale is unconditional meaning the purchaser is bound to purchase on the settlement date and the vendor is bound to transfer clear title and (usually) vacant possession on settlement date.

The deposit is an "earnest" if you will, a payment which establishes the bone fides of the purchaser. Frankly the main reason deposits are obtained is so the agent can deduct their commission.

It isn't uncommon for there to be no deposit specified in the Agreement for Sale and Purchase. Reasons can be that the buyers money is already tied up in an existing home. Or there is an inheiritance just over the horizon.............[xx(]

When the deposit is called for in writing, the purchaser has 3 days to come up with the money. After that the vendor may elect to cancel the contract and resell. Unfortunately the agent is still due his commission and may come looking for it. And a new commission on the resale of course.

Your solicitor needs to follow this up. And the agent should be a bit nervous too because you rely upon an agent to establish the bone fides of the buyer.

Nevertheless the sale may settle no problem or a bit late. It isn't often that buyers walk away. True, you can sue them but if they have no money then..............[V]

ari
25-11-2005, 09:27 AM
Phew, did not need that....3 weeks of little sleep but can move on now with money in the bank. So go on RBNZ, put the rates up, I'll make more than I did with the last venture!:D

Gryffyn
25-11-2005, 04:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by minimoke


quote:Originally posted by ari


quote:This is usually the Consideration part of a contract - without it there is no contract: no contract, nothing to enforce!
Don't think so.....once unconditional buyer has contractual obligations to fill, even if it means off to the court, which I believe are dealt with fairly swiftly these days.

And this may the heart of the problem - if they haven't paid the deposit, how can it be unconditional?


It's uncond because they've signed it so. The money is irrelevant. Solicitor should have been chasing this an hour after it was due.

ari
26-11-2005, 09:04 AM
quote:It's uncond because they've signed it so. The money is irrelevant. Solicitor should have been chasing this an hour after it was due.

I certainly learnt alot over this little excercise and wheels were in motion to sue. Although I did get $680 penalty interest on deposit (my instruction to Solicitor) who then pat themselves on the back and claim success with an additional $600 tacked onto account! Should have gone purchaser for that too.

Gryffyn
26-11-2005, 11:30 AM
Yes, you are allowed to chase for related damages/costs but probably too late now. Chalk it up to a priceless learning experience (and consider changing your legal team).

zazaza
26-11-2005, 05:49 PM
Good references to this are at:
http://.com.au/fee?_IDF.lease.pdf

duncan macgregor
09-12-2005, 01:10 PM
Message to all the home owners selling to buy else where. If you have a fixed term mortgage at a lower interest rate get it transferred to the new property. Contact your mortgage broker before you sell you might save a bundle with increasing interest rates. macdunk

Winston001
20-12-2005, 11:49 AM
Yes, good advice but only if your bank agrees. Generally when a house is sold the current mortgage is repaid and a totally new advance made for the new house. The bank may not charge an early repayment fee if you stay with them but they will insist that the new loan is on current, not historical terms.

You can still fix it but at todays rates.

And why would anyone go near a broker? You are far better off approaching your own bank directly.

duncan macgregor
21-12-2005, 07:58 AM
WINSTON001, I know one person that transferred their loan over from one property to another with westpac. You get nothing in this life if you dont ask. macdunk

Base Trader
05-01-2006, 01:48 AM
MacDunk. I would suggest your friend did well and probably used the leverage of their considerable increase in borrowing under their new mortgage as well as some good ole nagging to get their way.

I would hearterly suggest that anyone moving ask to transfer their fixed rate portion also - but the response maybe muted.

If you take a swap contract as a corporate - if the contract is terminated which ever party is out of the money will pay the settlement balance based on mark to market valuation.

Note this is the difference between the fixed rate contracted and the forward yield curve for the remaining term of the fixed rate period. This is separate to the principal outstanding.

However, in the case of the NZ fixed rate loans (which is just an embedded swap agreement) the bank does not pay if your contract is in the money (i.e. the current fixed rates are higher than your fixed rate).

This is a good source of income for the Banks as once you have repaid the loan there is no capital at risk. Hence, this is higher quality earnings because there is no capital provisions/adequacy requirements.

When the Banks moan about the fixed rate margins being eroded and far slimmer than the floating rates they remain a good source of capital free fee income from renewals and repayments leaving profitable swap positions. The margins are still behind the proposterous 2% of the variable rate but are not as bad as the Banks would make out.

It is just some treasury operations make the profit rather than the dogged mortage sales people.

ari
24-02-2006, 09:20 AM
Has anyone had any experience in buying bare land prior to issue of titles? Signed Sale & Purchase Agreement for 3.02 hectares in subdivision of 5 lots. Contract says 3.02 more or less. I always believed that 'more or less' referred to any survey errors.
Since signing we find that vendor has taken 400m2 to site next door which he is to retain and on speaking to him last night it could now be down to 2.971! Plan showing 3.02 has been lodged with Council.
Has anyone had similar probs. Be nice to know exactly what we'll be left with.

GTM 3442
24-02-2006, 11:57 AM
Ari - "more or less" does indeed refer to survey errors. Raise merry h*ll !

duncan macgregor
24-02-2006, 08:39 PM
More or less is not surveyor error. If you had one thousand acres that had a hill in it dead centre then you might gain a few extra acres. Its only if it is flat like a bowling green that you can say how many sq mtrs a block has. More or less covers this.
macdunk

ari
25-02-2006, 08:36 PM
quote:More or less is not surveyor error. If you had one thousand acres that had a hill in it dead centre then you might gain a few extra acres. Its only if it is flat like a bowling green that you can say how many sq mtrs a block has. More or less covers this.

I should have explained better...yes I meant survey errors due to undulations....so if you have a hole instead of a hill it will always be more, never 'less' as in my case:)

ari
03-07-2006, 09:34 AM
Has anyone had any experience with the purchase of land prior to issuance of titles?
My concern is the deposit...they wanted 10%, finally agreed to 5%(back in Feb) and the titles are still some way off. Now this $27,250 deposit could of been put to good use elsewhere.
Do Real Estate trust a/c's earn interest just like Solicitor Trust a/c's? Who's getting the interest?

duncan macgregor
03-07-2006, 04:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by ari

Has anyone had any experience with the purchase of land prior to issuance of titles?
My concern is the deposit...they wanted 10%, finally agreed to 5%(back in Feb) and the titles are still some way off. Now this $27,250 deposit could of been put to good use elsewhere.
Do Real Estate trust a/c's earn interest just like Solicitor Trust a/c's? Who's getting the interest?

Thats why you have a lawyer to explain the ins and outs of each individual transaction. Get him to write up a conditional contract dont allow the real estate guy to do it. macdunk

ari
03-07-2006, 07:45 PM
quote:Thats why you have a lawyer to explain the ins and outs of each individual transaction. Get him to write up a conditional contract dont allow the real estate guy to do it. macdunk

It has all be handled by a Solicitor, (don't just assume) and perhaps someone else can answer the actual question.

barnsley bill
03-07-2006, 08:13 PM
quote:Originally posted by ari

Has anyone had any experience with the purchase of land prior to issuance of titles?
My concern is the deposit...they wanted 10%, finally agreed to 5%(back in Feb) and the titles are still some way off. Now this $27,250 deposit could of been put to good use elsewhere.
Do Real Estate trust a/c's earn interest just like Solicitor Trust a/c's? Who's getting the interest?

yes... and they are getting the interest.

trackers
04-07-2006, 05:29 AM
Last time I put down a deposit they told me it was going in to a non interest bearing trust account; Maybe i just ran in to an honest, moral salesperson? lol

ari
04-07-2006, 07:54 AM
Someone is getting the interest and it is not the purchaser as most transactions are settled within a couple of months. But you can bet that the professionals with large property deals have this well covered.
I would guess that the Real Estate company do get a slice as they push for maximum deposit they can get away with. I believe that when purchasing land (prior to title issuance) there should be no deposit as there is nothing to sell until plan is approved and titles issued, and could drag on for years.

This issue appears to be a closed shop, especially with Solicitors who will not admit to Lend Back schemes with banks and Trust a/c's bearing interest.

duncan macgregor
04-07-2006, 01:03 PM
ARI, I look on it from a different angle to you. I dont care if someone makes a profit [or a perk if you prefer]in a business deal, as long as i win. The estate agent is to be used up to get you the lowest cost for the property that you can screw out of him or her.
Even go as far as cutting their commission that the vendor pays to get a lower price. The vendor is trying to sell the property early which places them in a weak position exploit that. Who cares about interest on a deposit that is only chicken feed to what really matters. If you buy and sell a few times deal with the same lawyer and agent and throw a bit their way you might get a surprize. macdunk

ari
04-07-2006, 01:46 PM
quote:ARI, I look on it from a different angle to you.
macD...there was never any doubt that you wouldn't!

fungus pudding
21-12-2013, 07:53 AM
Last time I put down a deposit they told me it was going in to a non interest bearing trust account; Maybe i just ran in to an honest, moral salesperson? lol

Real estate trust accounts are non-interest bearing. They must balance and are strictly audited. 10% is common as a deposit, but it can be anything agreed on. $1 if you like, although agents generally and quite sensibly push for higher. There is an advantage to them in that after 10 days they can help themselves to their commission.

Jay
21-12-2013, 08:35 AM
I thought once it has gone unconditional then they can help themselves and then after 10 days if not passed already??

G on
22-12-2013, 02:21 PM
Ari. does your contract have "subject to final survey". Either way I would expect your lawyer to be on to it, if they have been informed of the reduction of land area, and maybe you have grounds to exit contract, renegotiate price, or accept it as still a good deal. The plan would have to be amended to show the adjusted area to the council before final title is signed off. You can voice your concerns to the council as well.

fungus pudding
22-12-2013, 03:57 PM
I thought once it has gone unconditional then they can help themselves and then after 10 days if not passed already??

No. In some parts of the country it is the custom not to pay a deposit until a contract is unconditional. The ten day rule can be set aside but only if written approval is given by both parties to release the deposit.

Jay
22-12-2013, 08:58 PM
I sit corrected FP

fungus pudding
22-12-2013, 11:24 PM
I sit corrected FP


You are completely forgiven, but only because it's Christmas. :D Have a good one.:p