PDA

View Full Version : Carparks



peat
01-05-2006, 09:48 AM
Has anybody here considered becoming a carpark mogul.

Having painlessly rented out the carpark I acquired with my AKL CBD apartment for a year and half, the idea occurred to me that they are an unidentified niche in property investment and with the rash of apartment buildings going up and most of them only providing carparks for a small percentage of the units it seemed to me quite possible of a huge shortage manifesting itself over the years.
The Herald ran an article over the weekend highlighting some craziness occurring in the current prices.

Halebop
01-05-2006, 12:03 PM
The Auckland carpark market is looking just as frothy to me as the rest of the property market. Its arguably more sensitive to local government whims than many property investment categories because supply of it is artificially restricted as part of the broader transport policy. There were certainly some good buys available in the mid 90s (I came very close to buying some myself) but the yields now aren't so convincing. Cash flows tend to be good though - not much in the way of carpet or fittings to periodically replace. I suspect the council will feel political pressure to provide more supply as Transit complete some of the motorway improvements around the CBD and as more retailers appreciate the size of the growing urban population.

Some sort of downsized/hybrid bulk retail catering to CBD furniture, appliance and homeware buyers is probably viable too. As a former CBD dweller I sold the car but buying big ticket stuff in person became that little bit more challenging. With the mobility and "urban sophistication" of many CBD dwellers, I think many such goods are smaller, more expensive and bought / replaced more regularly.

peat
03-05-2006, 09:34 AM
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10380032

see at the bottom of the article
loss of 197 carparks.... ;)

me wonders if this attrition due to roading dvlpmnts will continue!

patsy
08-05-2006, 04:39 PM
Carparks are the only property investment that I absolutely love because:

(1) it is truly maintenance free
(2) in the Auckland City area demand far outstrips supply
(3) and, more importantly, it is much.much easier to deal with companies as "tenants" rather than with individuals.

However, an understanding of the rules and regulations, not only current but previous, is necessary. For example, I almost blew it when I was just about to buy one for myself in the Farmer's building when I realised that the width did not comply with current regulations but with the smaller sizes allowed by previous legislations - efectively it was so narrow that I could not have open the door and exit the car.

I bought a few carparks over the past years ranging from $30K to $50K, all centrally located around Albert and Customs Streets - never regretted it.

patsy
08-05-2006, 04:42 PM
....best way to check the demand for carparks is to ring Wilson or Tournament carparks and ask them the waiting time for a monthly pass in any carprk around the city area.... You'll be shocked by the number of people in the waiting list!!!

peat
10-05-2006, 04:01 PM
cheers for your input Patsy.
HaleBopp - you're probably right in indentifying some of the impact of the market that isnt free-enterprise i.e council which does add risk in the same way that Govt has now added a lot of risk to Telecom and, I dont quite follow some of what you wrote esp the 2nd paragraph
"downsized/hybrid bulk retail catering to CBD furniture, appliance and homeware buyers " what are you on about here??

Halebop
10-05-2006, 04:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by peat

HaleBopp - you're probably right in indentifying some of the impact of the market that isnt free-enterprise i.e council which does add risk in the same way that Govt has now added a lot of risk to Telecom

This is exactly the opposite. The regulation risk with TEL was on the downside, with carparks the downside risk comes with DE-regulation.


quote:Originally posted by peat

and, I dont quite follow some of what you wrote esp the 2nd paragraph
"downsized/hybrid bulk retail catering to CBD furniture, appliance and homeware buyers " what are you on about here??

...a twist on the "homewares" bulk retail concept. CBD values preclude the same scale but many CBD dwellers don't have easy access to some quite mundane brands and services. Not so much to do with car parks although its impacted by the cost of car parking - more car ownership.

CJ
15-05-2006, 11:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by patsy

I bought a few carparks over the past years ranging from $30K to $50K, all centrally located around Albert and Customs Streets - never regretted it.

What do the banks think? Do they give residentail rates and 80% loans?? (or are you cross-collateral?).

Do you manage yourself or sublet via wilsons/etc?

patsy
22-05-2006, 07:18 AM
quote:Originally posted by CJ


quote:Originally posted by patsy

I bought a few carparks over the past years ranging from $30K to $50K, all centrally located around Albert and Customs Streets - never regretted it.

What do the banks think? Do they give residentail rates and 80% loans?? (or are you cross-collateral?).

Do you manage yourself or sublet via wilsons/etc?


I have a revolving credit facility with Westpac, collateralised with the carparks at 75% of QV valuation, and running at residential rates. I managed them myself (it rquires very little time and management, actually). I got tenants by approaching directly a few offices within walking distance. They are rented directly by companies as such, not by the individuals, and this makes things safer from my side.

GB
22-05-2006, 08:26 AM
Great info Patsy -

dunnos
20-07-2006, 01:11 PM
New to this forum stuff so I hope I've got this right. We've sold some investment property down south and are thinking of investing in carparks in the Nth Island . Are there any specialist agents in Auck/Wellington who deal with carparks?

JBmurc
20-07-2006, 08:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by dunnos

New to this forum stuff so I hope I've got this right. We've sold some investment property down south and are thinking of investing in carparks in the Nth Island . Are there any specialist agents in Auck/Wellington who deal with carparks?


Carparks[|)] wouldn,t be selling if the property was way down south in southland(NZ,s texas)
be gutted when Exxon mobil&shell Take up the GSB permits soon to be annouced.
Whats the yeilds like on a piece of tarmac[?]good cap growth

dunnos
07-08-2006, 12:48 PM
Carparks[|)] wouldn,t be selling if the property was way down south in southland(NZ,s texas)
be gutted when Exxon mobil&shell Take up the GSB permits soon to be annouced.
Whats the yeilds like on a piece of tarmac[?]good cap growth

I take your point. We own some coastal property nth of Dunedin and wouldn't sell but we are moving back up Nth adn don't want to be an absentee landlord. Luckily we're well out of the way of planned exploration.

Not sure about retruns on carpark investments. Can't seem to get any facts or figures. Do you know where I'd get this sort of info?

JBmurc
07-08-2006, 04:43 PM
-Don,t forget -TAPs permit just offshore dunedin cutter#1 will be drilled soon just North of dunedin close to Oamaru's coast.

-Cutter-1* PEP 38259 40.00% 50-80 mmbbls oil 3Q 06
-Barque-1* PEP 38259 40.00% 5-6 Tcf + 500 mmbbls gas/condensate TBA

some massive est. if even half of est. of cutter or Barque comes were talking some huge $$$$$ value for TAP and the surrounding area.

-might have to buy some Oamaru property;)

JBMURC-will be holding TAP soon cheap buying at 1.90

peat
28-05-2008, 03:18 PM
thought I'd bump this thread.... I may have an opportunity to purchase another carpark which I know I can easily rent out for $40 maybe 50.
What with the change in the economy since this thread was invoked whats it worth in your estimation?
It seems to me that knowing what it can earn makes valuation pretty straight forward all that necessary is to know what PE or yield I should expect ?

Arbitrage
28-05-2008, 05:01 PM
Depends on the location. In Newmarket for that rent the carparks sell for around $35000 plus or minus $5000. Check out Trademe or carpark.co.nz for simliar car parks for sale.

peat
29-05-2008, 01:32 PM
Auckland CBD very central 100m to High St.
slightly difficult access (narrow entrance) but its secure and covered and available 24/7 with a remote.
forgot about carpark.co.nz so yeh thanks for that.
not many for actual sale.

AMR
14-10-2009, 09:10 PM
Hey guys, what would be the best way to rent carparks out? I may be coming into possession of one soon.

peat
15-10-2009, 07:04 AM
put a sign up in the building. thats what I do.

a carpark recently sold in my bldg for 50k which seems a lot considering return is only $50 a week but I guess its %5. no effort investment coz nothing ever goes wrong with a carpark,

fungus pudding
15-10-2009, 07:08 AM
Hey guys, what would be the best way to rent carparks out? I may be coming into possession of one soon.


Could be a bit much information there to answer that in one fell-swoop. :D

Skol
15-10-2009, 11:29 AM
I wouldn't put my dough into the Auckland CBD. I avoid it like the plague, it's dirty, there's traffic jams, crime. Why would people go there when they can get everything they need with free parking at St. Lukes or Albany with hassle-free shopping, most of it under one roof? The cost of parking in the Auckland CBD amounts to legal theft.
Personally I think the CBD will die, with internet comms and cheaper rents to be had in the suburbs.

Arbitrage
15-10-2009, 07:13 PM
Hey guys, what would be the best way to rent carparks out? I may be coming into possession of one soon.

In the past I have done a notice drop advertising the carpark to rent in nearby office buildings, and a notice on the parking space. Try also carpark.co.nz or trademe or the newspaper. Local public noticeboards too. If Tournament or Wilsons or someone else run the parking in the building, it is easier to go into their pool and get a monthly return through that.

Skol
15-10-2009, 07:26 PM
In the past I have done a notice drop advertising the carpark to rent in nearby office buildings, and a notice on the parking space. Try also carpark.co.nz or trademe or the newspaper. Local public noticeboards too. If Tournament or Wilsons or someone else run the parking in the building, it is easier to go into their pool and get a monthly return through that.

Tournament parking which has been mentioned a couple of times here are nothing but thieves. I parked (in one of my scant wretched forays downtown) in one of Tournaments carparks.
I didn't have the right change so got a coffee and change to feed the meter and came back within minutes to find my vehicle clamped. A fat very unpleasant islander told me pay $150 or get towed. I paid the fatman $150 and told him what I thought, rang Tournament when I got home but they didn't give a s**t. That's their modus operandi.
Tournament was subsequently the subject of a lengthy Fair Go enquiry. Kevin Milne requested viewers email their complaints, there were heaps. I did get revenge though. My wife thought I would be on TV because they may have had cameras.

Later in the day I passed the same carpark and saw a woman who was in tears. I asked her what the problem was and she told me her car had been towed despite having paid the correct amount and displayed her pass. Tournament are in cahoots with a towing company, First Recovery.

Scumbags. Should put them on scumbag of the day.

Arbitrage
15-10-2009, 07:28 PM
Yeah but they run the buildings well for all the carpark owners. Your $150 went into our kitty thanks.

Skol
15-10-2009, 08:37 PM
Yeah but they run the buildings well for all the carpark owners. Your $150 went into our kitty thanks.

Hope you enjoyed what I did to Tournament, cost them s***tloads more than $150.
I enjoyed it myself, nothing like sticking the knife in.

Tournament won't last the distance doing business like that, probably take you down with them.

AMR
15-10-2009, 08:51 PM
Do tell us Skol!! :)

Skol
15-10-2009, 09:00 PM
I removed my vehicle from Tournament to another carpark adjacent.
After the meeting I attended, I went to have a few beers with guys.
On the way back to my vehicle (not over the limit) I passed a marine shop and enquired as to whether they had any fast setting glues, not two pot.
Yep, they had just what I wanted, so it was a bit embarrassing really because I actually encountered the woman I described previously as I was squeezing the stuff into the coin slot.

Revenge is sweet.

Arbitrage
16-10-2009, 07:47 AM
If you missed out on being on Fair Go you may be on the footage from the car park's security cameras.
We have a lot of people who try to get away with free parking as well as vandalism. However these are all managed as best as they can, and budgetted for. Tournament runs a good operation despite your comments, with steady returns to investors.

AMR
16-10-2009, 08:51 AM
:eek::eek:

Um...ok, anyway, back to the issue at hand:rolleyes:

Peat, When renting out the car did you consider it as a residential tenancy (under the RTA) or did you set up a commercial lease?

peat
16-10-2009, 08:56 AM
amr
neither :confused:

skol
I'd be careful admitting to things online... you may not be as anonymous as you think.

Skol
16-10-2009, 09:42 AM
If you missed out on being on Fair Go you may be on the footage from the car park's security cameras.
We have a lot of people who try to get away with free parking as well as vandalism. However these are all managed as best as they can, and budgetted for. Tournament runs a good operation despite your comments, with steady returns to investors.

I was absent from their carpark no more than 5 minutes to obtain the necessary change. I explained this to the gorilla and that I was a customer for the day. It didn't make any difference, pay $150 or get towed within 10mins. That amounts to nothing less than extortion.

I told this moron that he was stealing from the very people who provided his living. He was obviously watching me from afar from the moment I parked my vehicle, and clamped it as soon as I left to obtain the change, and provide revenue as well for their partners in crime, First Recovery, who also rated a mention on Fair Go.

I told a mate of mine about this a few minutes later and he wanted to go to the hire place over the road and hire a gas axe, but I thought that was going a bit too far.

Check your cameras, you'll have to go back a while though, I spend most of my time offshore. LOL

Phone calls to Tournamnet management were unsuccessful and I kept getting fobbed off by someone called Yasmin. There was no way they were going to entertain the idea of a refund.


You do business with them, good luck.

Treat your customers like that and you can expect plenty of vandalism, not very intelligent management.

If anyone here is considering using Tournament in any regard whatsoever my advice would be to give them an extremely wide berth.

If you want to find out about your quality 'investment managers' Arbitrage, scumbags Tournament, you will, I am sure, be able to purchase the Fair Go programmes from TVNZ. Kevin Milne had plenty to say about them.

Perhaps in your next investment you might like to deal with more ethical individuals.

Skol
16-10-2009, 11:35 AM
I filled it with glue too ;)

That should help take any future heat off ya Skol :D

Thanks, appreciate the vote of confidence. I detest thieves.

Arbitrage
19-10-2009, 12:28 PM
Hmmm, you left the carpark without paying. Then when you get caught you vandalise the property. You expect the guy whose job it is to keep an eye on the place to be a judge. Look, there are heaps of people who try all sorts of excuses to avoid payment. So where should the line be drawn?
Sorry, i can't sympathise. Perhaps if you had made a bigger effort to contact Tournament than a quick phone call, the case could have been reconsidered.
Also checking you have money before going into a private carpark might help.

POSSUM THE CAT
19-10-2009, 02:32 PM
Tournament Parking Seems to have a lot of apearances on FAIR GO. The same tool car convertors use to deal with the combined ignition steering locks will defeat most of these wheel clamps

Skol
19-10-2009, 07:01 PM
Hmmm, you left the carpark without paying. Then when you get caught you vandalise the property. You expect the guy whose job it is to keep an eye on the place to be a judge. Look, there are heaps of people who try all sorts of excuses to avoid payment. So where should the line be drawn?
Sorry, i can't sympathise. Perhaps if you had made a bigger effort to contact Tournament than a quick phone call, the case could have been reconsidered.
Also checking you have money before going into a private carpark might help.

I did not leave the carpark without paying, I was let out after I had $150 stolen by the Tournament gorilla, so fat, he found it difficult to extract himself from his vehicle.
I did contact Tournament by phone and the result was exactly why they were on Fair Go.
No deal, pay $150 or get towed.

Want to do business with those thieves, good luck.

Where does it say on Tournaments signs to have the correct change? They're relying on suckers not to have the correct change so the gorilla can clamp their vehicle while they're away getting it.

That Tournament was on several Fair Go shows says it all.

Skol
20-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Some evidence in the paper today that downtown Auckland is in its death throes.

www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10604197

AMR
20-10-2009, 12:52 PM
IMO that building is very well placed but built in the wrong year.

We have Britomart and all the associated public transport improvements there, the waterfront gentrification, and possibly further improvements out east along the old railway line.

I hope your prediction about the CBD dying is completely off - I am considering fully leveraging up into CBD apartments.

CJ
20-10-2009, 12:59 PM
Some evidence in the paper today that downtown Auckland is in its death throes.

www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10604197
To build a building without tenant is just stupidity. It does not signal the death throes of downtown.

The BNZ/Deloitte tower is just about complete and is nearly full. Add to that Westpac and EY are moving to new premises in Britomart.

And is it Telecom building a huge new building up on Victoria street. That is a lot of new capacity that has been filled so you would expect there to be low demand in the short term as everyone who is moving has already signed up somewhere else.

seaosh
20-10-2009, 08:43 PM
I hope your prediction about the CBD dying is completely off - I am considering fully leveraging up into CBD apartments.

On what basis are you considering going aggressively into CBD apartments?

Just curious. . . I have a rental there myself. Has been relatively easy to keep tenanted but rental is actually down slightly on when I purchased - back in 2002. Seems to be no shortage of new apartments going up.

AMR
20-10-2009, 10:45 PM
At the moment apartments are selling for quite a bit less than the build cost, and with the new Auckland City ban on smaller apartments costs go up again.

Plus we have the blue chip oversupply which has forced the prices down for us to pick up but is a short-term factor in my opinion and when it has cleared (along with the public hatred of apartments) then prices will correct.

Like the March lows of 2009 on the stockmarket in my opinion. Also prices are already in an uptrend, probably since the summer of 2008.

What building are you in Seaosh?

seaosh
20-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Sent you the building via PM.

Can't be giving too much away in the public forums!

Skol
18-11-2009, 06:48 PM
Scumbags Tournament Parking on a Fair Go special tonight.
The one thing you'll notice is the chief scumbag, one 'James Brown', does not appear on Fair Go, just sends condescending messages about how they're going to clean up their despicable act.
Avoid Tournament at all costs.

Arbitrage
19-11-2009, 08:16 AM
It was interesting how neither Wilsons nor Tournament came away looking too good. I can never understand why companies operate in such a negative way as it always comes back to bight them. Then they wonder why occupancy and profits drop.

Carpark operators are not the only ones that don't see their clients as customers. Airlines are as bad (eg Jetstar). I could go on for hours...

However, hopefully the upcoming govt review will give the carpark guys a rev up.

fungus pudding
19-11-2009, 09:51 AM
It was interesting how neither Wilsons nor Tournament came away looking too good. I can never understand why companies operate in such a negative way as it always comes back to bight them. Then they wonder why occupancy and profits drop.




And which carparks are suffering from reduced occupancy and falling profits?

Arbitrage
23-11-2009, 12:03 PM
Auckland commercial car parks are suffering. Daily charges have droppped in many commercial operations and competition is fierce. Car park building balance sheets of the big operators show reduced income (you can see these if you own carparks managed by a commercial operator). If you look up carparks for sale in Auckland on trademe you will also see that a number of them have been on the market for a while. Times are tough and carparking can be a significant cost, therefore it is cheaper to park in Auckand city fringe suburbs and catch a bus into the centre.

AMR
08-12-2009, 08:17 PM
Do any valuers look at carparks?

I guess it might be harder to buy carparks under value like houses and then get the bank to lend against it...

Ended up buying a property without one.

fungus pudding
09-12-2009, 07:43 AM
Do any valuers look at carparks?





Of couse. Either stand alone, or as a part of a property with improvements, carparking certainly has a major effect on value.

Billy Boy
09-12-2009, 10:22 AM
In my experience Buildings with on site parking were much easier
to let than "no Parking ones"
The more parking the better.
Words from folks in CHCH during the Swine flu scare. " Keep away
from the buses etc as they are the most likely places to get youself
infected."
Therefore I would wonder how the stat's stack up ??
1. are the regularly leased parks declining, if so why, & where are
they parking now. Cant see some top exec's riding a bus !!
2. if the decline is from the spot user's then congestion must
be comming down making it more attracive to the middle class
office workers and CBD clients surely.
3. Is this only an Auckland problem ?
A friend of mine lives in Karori Wgton, works CBD. It costs him
$10 a trip, thats $20 a day on the bus. Thats $100 a week just
to get to work !!. $5000 a year.
He bought a car park close to work for $28,000. Takes two locals
from up the street and they pay his petrol.
BB:)