TEL (Telecom NZ Ltd)

[Zaphod]

Both HD Video conferencing and complete online backup from my home-office are a no-go area at the moment due to the low upstream ADSL bandwidth and with UFB not due past my house until mid-2014, VDSL might be the solution to tide me over.

I suspect that this is Telecom's plan; tide the market over with VDSL until the non-Chorus LFC testing is complete and yields the results that they require.

[craic]

Climbing again this afternoon - now at 233. Hit my sell at 232 so I'm now trying to buy back at 229 - I hope.

[Poet]

Hi Craic, well done on sticking to your strategy (buy low sell high, if I've apprehended correctly) but why would you sell at 2.32 and look to buy at 2.29? Surely after commissions both ways, that doesn't make a huge amount of sense given the standard deviation on the TEL shareprice.

[craic]

The 3cps gives me $1,050 less approx $170 X 2 in fees. Now I face the increase to 136cps so I may have to lose profits maintaining my quantity of shares or reduce the number.

[Timid]

This might sound pretty dumb (I'm new to this,) but doesn't that sort of short term trading fall under the onus of the Capital Gains Tax?

Also, does anyone know if there's been any guidance from Telecom on dividends, since the restructuring/lay-offs. I sold out early this year and haven't been keeping up with any news.

[craic]

No. There is no capital gains tax in NZ as such. It comes under simple income tax - any enterprise that is set up to make a profit for an individal, like me, is taxable as income on profits. In an earlier post, I mentioned keeping 30% of any profit to pay tax. Hopefully, it will not be that much but the optimistic side is, the more tax I have to pay, the more money I have made. As to dividends, an actual payment sould reach your bank on 7th October. As to what it will be, I have no idea - thats why I prefer to trade (or work for my profits)

[bull....]

Vodaphone gained customers last quarter so who lost them telecom or 2 degrees ?

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/350613,vodafone-customer-losses-balloon-in-june-quarter.aspx

[mccollr]

Would that have been because of the takeover of TelstraClear. I had two cell phones with Telstra and in the last two months have been bulled from Vodafone.

[bull....]

Would that have been because of the takeover of TelstraClear. I had two cell phones with Telstra and in the last two months have been bulled from Vodafone.

you probably right but when they took over telstra clear i think they had 50k mobile customer so did only 19k of them actually carry on with vodaphone? quite a misleading story

[craic]

Quite a bit of upward pressure here. Up to 235 and rising. Possibly due to the next interim dividend announcement to be released in four weeks or the fourth week in August. All the stable nz shares are attracting overses investors and it may be paranoia but I believe that there are enough insiders around most NZ companies to influence the price in the month or so before an announcement. The people who are providing the data to the number crunchers, the number crunchers, technicians, printers and so forth. I hope the result will be a bit more interesting and original than GEORGE.

[Poet]

Quite a bit of upward pressure here. Up to 235 and rising. Possibly due to the next interim dividend announcement to be released in four weeks or the fourth week in August. All the stable nz shares are attracting overses investors and it may be paranoia but I believe that there are enough insiders around most NZ companies to influence the price in the month or so before an announcement. The people who are providing the data to the number crunchers, the number crunchers, technicians, printers and so forth. I hope the result will be a bit more interesting and original than GEORGE.

I would have gone with JOFFREY:)

Craic, did you buy back in at $2.29 as per your earlier post.

I also exited at $2.315 but will look for a much lower entry point to come back in - my feeling is that fy result and earnings guidance will disappoint (of course I could be wrong and have a long wait for re-entry if ever)

[craic]

Been in and out couple times in the past week or so. Last sold at 234cps and put a buy in at 230 but cancelled it today when it was clear that it wasn't coming down that far. must now watch and decide between now and Friday end-of-trading. May take a loss and buy back in and shut up shop till the smoke clears in August. Going to S/E Asia mid-August so won't have to worry for a few weeks.

[GR8DAY]

Why's telecom weak at the moment??

[Major von Tempsky]

Its across the board today, TEL is not being picked on.
TEL is often seen overseas as a proxy for NZ INC, or the NZ dollar and speculated against for that reason. So you are liable to see incredibly stupid stuff like TEL being sold off because someone overseas thinks the international milk products price might go down.
Have faith in Simon Moutter and play it for the long haul, I'm sure Simon will have made some solid progress by say the end of 2015.

[GR8DAY]

Its across the board today, TEL is not being picked on.
TEL is often seen overseas as a proxy for NZ INC, or the NZ dollar and speculated against for that reason. So you are liable to see incredibly stupid stuff like TEL being sold off because someone overseas thinks the international milk products price might go down.
Have faith in Simon Moutter and play it for the long haul, I'm sure Simon will have made some solid progress by say the end of 2015.


.....Cheers MvT, typically Ive just bought back in at 2.32.and 2.35 and next day whamo! ...the price heads south. Im sure someone has bugged my computer with a direct link to the main trading platform.........signalling a "sell-now" to the general market as soon as I buy.......almost makes a man want to give up and get a real job!!!http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/icons/icon9.png

[craic]

Just the same. Trading up and down over a few months and bought back at a good price only to have it drop like a stone. In my case, I had decided that the half-yearly account is almost upon us and that it was wise to buy back and hold for a month or so. But you can still trade down there as long as you can get 2cents difference in your favour if you have enough shares.

[GR8DAY]

Just the same. Trading up and down over a few months and bought back at a good price only to have it drop like a stone. In my case, I had decided that the half-yearly account is almost upon us and that it was wise to buy back and hold for a month or so. But you can still trade down there as long as you can get 2cents difference in your favour if you have enough shares.

...hi Craic and thanks for that "support".......pity I cudnt find the same in the SP!! I always keep some in reserve to average down but that is sometimes hard to do when you're not feeling that optimistic after a bit of a "hit". I TEND TO SIT ON MY HANDS AND WATCH THE PRICE CREEP BACK UP THEN SELL TO JUST GET MY MONEY BACK and then find Im out of "sinc" again. I'd love to know how the chartists do trading the likes of TEL?? ........ps I play around with about 20000 of them......maybe not enough??

[stones]

Simon Moutter is good value for TEL and I think the proof in the pudding will show in time and not too far away hopefully. My confidence in TEL hasnt wained and the stock will improve. Good time to buy now

[craic]

...hi Craic and thanks for that "support".......pity I cudnt find the same in the SP!! I always keep some in reserve to average down but that is sometimes hard to do when you're not feeling that optimistic after a bit of a "hit". I TEND TO SIT ON MY HANDS AND WATCH THE PRICE CREEP BACK UP THEN SELL TO JUST GET MY MONEY BACK and then find Im out of "sinc" again. I'd love to know how the chartists do trading the likes of TEL?? ........ps I play around with about 20000 of them......maybe not enough??
I currently work with a block of 35000 and 3000 that are in or out. If I only gain one cent on a sell and buy, I pay $330 approx. in fees for a gain of $350 or a profit of $20 but if I get 2cps then the profit jumps to $370 and so forth. Allow 30% for tax and 30% for a reserve. The reserve is to buy back in if I slip and the share starts upward in a hurry and leaves me behind. With TEL I notice that the price tends to stay down before lunch - the Australian opening and can peak in the mid afternoon and can drop again later. The price of the capital stock is of little interest to me at any time, the number of shares is critical and I try to maintain this at any cost. I also run a block of 27,000 for one of my offspring to the same pattern. I consider charting in the same category as witchcraft - and I gave that up years ago

[GR8DAY]

........CAN ANYONE IN THE KNOW (longterm holder?) TELL ME WHAT THE NEXT SEPTEMBER? DIVIDEND IS LIKELY TO BE (approx)?? CPS?

[mcdongle]

oops wrong thread

[craic]

So it all comes out on friday week 28th August when I will be in Penang or somewhere up there. Teleconference only - no bodies on the floor? saving on the tea and cakes? Anything over 5cps will do and a new opportunity to trade as the price-per-share sinks back down.

[swillisam]

I’m looking forward to seeing what the result is next week. Simon Moutter has been in the job for roughly 10 months which I think is too early to see any dramatic change in the business (good or bad) due to his rein. What do people think about Simon Moutter and the future of Telecom? I see quite a few people on here rate Simon but don’t necessarily rate Telecom.

[ooshi]

The Full Year result is out this week Friday 23rd isn't it, not next week:

http://investor.telecom.co.nz/phoenix.zhtml?c=91956&p=irol-EventDetails&EventId=4876394

[GR8DAY]

The Full Year result is out this week Friday 23rd isn't it, not next week:

http://investor.telecom.co.nz/phoenix.zhtml?c=91956&p=irol-EventDetails&EventId=4876394


.....CORRECT OOSHI, EXCELLENT FIRST POST!! (welcome aboard)

[swillisam]

Opps, yes I meant 23 August. Still my question remains, what are peoples thoughts?

[Major von Tempsky]

Simon Moutter has already has made at least 2 differences with a strategic takeover which is doing very well (now has a combined office with Geni at the Chch Airport campus) and in stripping out costs incl high cost heritage managers from Telecom's SOE days.
Not sure what Friday will show but the longer Simon Moutter has to operate the better it will get (like Auck Airport that he was the CEO of).
Maybe Friday will show a bit of backwards movement to get a solid springboard for the future, who knows. Of interest will be his plans for convergence with TV/cable (but he may keep mum on that for now until he is in a position to jump).
The question to me is how much longer investors will continue to severely undervalue TEL before they rerate it to at least the ratios that FBU is on....

[Poet]

Seems to me that Simon Moutter isn't exactly an inspired choice for this position.

His experience with Telecom as a monopoly and Auckland Airport as a monopoly hardly seems relevant to the current telecom environment and slashing jobs isn't what I would call inspired management (all in my humble opinion, of course)

I am not expecting to be overly enthused by tomorrow's result report (I expect we will hear that Telecom is 'Well positioned' - that's 101 for new CEO isn't it?).

Not to imply that TEL isn't worth holding from time to time, and I'll be a buyer on any significant weakness from current levels.

[BlackCross]

Net Profit (excludes discontinued operations) $236,000,000 Down 23.6%
Total dividend 16.0cps

Was this the expected result?

Edit: And to answer my own post somewhat:
"It was a year in which Telecom made some deliberate calls: to grow share in the mobile market, hold share in the broadband market, refocus the Gen-i business services portfolio and significantly reduce our
operating costs.
We were conscious these decisions would likely have a negative impact on short-term operating revenues
and margins and incur a substantial restructuring charge. This has been reflected in the financial results.
However, we believe they have enhanced Telecom’s position for the longer term, by strengthening our
customer base and improving our cost competitiveness..."

[Poet]

Great News from NZ Herald - Telecom Profit Rises


Telecom's has reported an adjusted profit of $342 million in a year where it moved to restructure its business and cut about 1280 jobs.
In its results for the year ending 30 June (http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/201334/Telecom.pdf), Telecom reported adjusted revenue of $4.17 billion, down 8.1 per cent - mostly due to a decline in its fixed-line business.
Adjusted earnings before interest tax depreciation and amortisation was $1.04 billion, down half a per cent on the same period the year before.
While its net profit was $238 million, unadjusted comparisons to the 2012 financial year are complicated by its demerger with lines company Chorus in December 2011.
Its adjusted profit of $342 million was up 21.7 per cent on adjusted 2012 profits.







Oh No! from Stuff - Telecom Profits plunge

"Telecom has reported a net profit of $236 million, down 79.6 per cent, after revenues slipped 8.5 per cent to $4.19 billion.
It revealed this morning that it had axed 981 full-time jobs since chief executive Simon Moutter announced major cost-cutting in February, and ended the financial year with 6622 full-time equivalents.
The company said that on an "adjusted basis" its profit was $342m, down from last year's $422m. "

What is with the financial media in this country?

[blackcap]

That is classic!!! Thanks poet, good for a laugh on this Friday morning. Now its for us to work out which one is correct.

[bull....]

the big drop in div is not positive 20c down to 16c for the full yr and if you factor in the fact revenues are still declining yr on yr not good I be surprised if it don't fall hard

[BlackCross]

the big drop in div is not positive 20c down to 16c for the full yr and if you factor in the fact revenues are still declining yr on yr not good I be surprised if it don't fall hard

I think the divi is in line with analysts forecasts at 16c - not sure about eps though (analysts looking for 18c)

[GR8DAY]

.....result all pretty much in line with expectations and already factored into SP. Buyers lining up very few keen sellers (1 actually). Pre sales up .5c from yesterday.

[bull....]

price held at support seems to be bouncing now

[bull....]

nice play this was picked up the div and capital gain if ya brought it on the support

[craic]

Up to 135 a week before div is paid next friday. Seems very high to me, it should have dropped after the Sept cut-off date. I'm sure that in the past, this share has dropped significantly after the pay out date (4th October). Maybe there are enough people out there who hang on for the "bird-in-the-hand" but it has to be more than that. Any ideas?

[craic]

Up again another couple of cent at noon, the opening of the Australian market. My first big error in a while - went out to buy back when it dropped - it didn't. Now my contingency fund will be depleted if I havent got the nerve to hold off till after next friday, the 4th Oct.

[moimoi]

Craic,

Window dressing by the Fundies for the Quarterly in Oz today...

[BIRMANBOY]

The trading range seems to have tightened up last 4/5 months 2.20 to 2.38. Will be interesting to see if it drops down to 2.20 again. If it does should be massive buying. So many choices so little cash.:(

[macduffy]

Vodafone NZ's result doesn't bode well for Telecom.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/financial-results/9226559/Vodafone-profit-slumps?cid=edm:businessday:dailybrief

[BIRMANBOY]

Moosie you cry wolf so often I think you should change your avatar..here is one for you.... probably from the old country as well. Any died in the wool trader will tell you cyclicals are excellent for making money. You dont know what you are.....are you a trader , a holder, or just undecided?

http://www.wolfpserver.com/images/wolf-wolves-32863738-1280-1024.jpg



"...slump until at least 2017" (the entire sector that is)

Time to get out of these cyclicals! :scared:

[Nigel]

I see Morningstar talking up Telecom's prospects. And the report on ASB Securities (from Morningstar) has a price target of $2.70.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9237046/Caution-urged-in-over-valued-market

[gv1]

I think its a good recession proof stock, can't compelety be sold.Good div earner. One of first stock that I first started out with on my learning curve. $2(+) is a fair price. Price stayed approx within these rang for good few years. Other stock that I bought 5 years ago was STU at $3.10, roller coaster ride but had confidence in the stock bouncing back to that level now maybe even go higher. Bought more on the way up.

[macduffy]

I wouldn't put too much store on TEL's past SP performance. It's a vastly different business these days and should be viewed in the context of present and future business segments and technologies. The latter change too quickly for me to be enthusiastic about TEL but others may be able to keep up, anticipate, and make good money from this stock.

:mellow:

[craic]

It's been keeping me happy for a year or three. If it starts to zig-zag down soon I should be able to trade freely again and get enough cash to buy myself a Christmas present or two. Problem is that if it keeps trending up, I will have some serious work to do to maintain my position.

[BIRMANBOY]

Very impressed with the tone, quality and thought behind the letter from Simon Moutter in the Shareholder Update letter just received.
"To be relevant to younger, more mobile, more ethnically diverse NZ's, we will need to invest in our brands, technology platforms and products-to engage and grab their attention and encourage them to choose us"
Good stuff.

[craic]

Something is keeping the price up. Unusual to pay an 8cps div. and maintain its price for a week but it seems to be mid afternoon buyers from some foreign place?

[Joshuatree]

News today TEL may be selling AAPT(they tried to years ago?) . Price re $455 mill suggested.

[BIRMANBOY]

Could look good as a capital redistribution:eek2:
News today TEL may be selling AAPT(they tried to years ago?) . Price re $455 mill suggested.

[sharer]

The history of TEL activities in Oz has been very poor.
The amount of "value" destroyed by them in their transtasman adventures is truly horrendous.:eek2:

[troyvdh]

..am very tempted to post 'woof woof woof gnarl.."....but will not....hate to have MR V Tempsky on the case again.

[Corporate]

Does tel only own 10% so not likely to be material?

[G on]

10% of Hutchison Australia. Thats in addition to AAPT. Motley Fool do a run down on it.

[craic]

Doing well again. seems to be moving up steadily in the market and hit 237cps for a while today. A good trading stock -bought for 230 this week and sold for 236 today - better weeks wages than i ever made working for a living.

[janner]

- better weeks wages than i ever made working for a living.

Your right of course craic.. But you and I know .. That we had a hell of a lot of fun working for The Queens Shilling.. :-)

[craic]

I pcked up my Queens Shilling from the Belfast recruiting office on 2nd August 1955 and my great regret is that I did not keep the coin to frame somewhere. But it was the beginning of a steep learning curve that still hasn't straightened out.
Your right of course craic.. But you and I know .. That we had a hell of a lot of fun working for The Queens Shilling.. :-)

[Major von Tempsky]

Sharetraders are strange creatures for any number of reasons....

TEL puts out a good report, the shareprice rises by 6.5cps....the average punter has at least 5 times as much in TEL as he/she has in CNU....and not a single flaming comment on the discussion board!

[macduffy]

Words fail us all, Major.

The Commerce Commission isn't interested in TEL. Don't temp fate!

;)

[Food4Thought]

Sharetraders are strange creatures for any number of reasons....

TEL puts out a good report, the shareprice rises by 6.5cps....the average punter has at least 5 times as much in TEL as he/she has in CNU....and not a single flaming comment on the discussion board!


... you may need to throw in XRO, PEB, DIL, SUM, SNK, CNU or some other hot topic to be considered for a response at the moment...
Your totally right, hard to get any hype anywhere else. Wait, you mentioned CNU... everything will be okay... someone else will comment over the weekend, more then just smack.

[craic]

As a tel trader, I find it easier to shut up and ignore the hot air merchants who believe that they are about to make their fortunes on PEB and WDT, companies that have never paid a dividend.Tel is volatile but there is a profit to made day-to-day. The only major mistake I made recently was to sell day before the dividend cut off date on the grounds that I could make more on buying back soon after. I lost something over $2000 on that but have made it up five times over since. sold at 236 on 1/11 and bought back at 232 on 11/11.

[Jay]

. sold at 236 on 1/11 and bought back at 232 on 11/11.

You predicting the future here craic, last time I looked the 11/11 is this Monday:)

[craic]

You predicting the future here craic, last time I looked the 11/11 is this Monday:)
That time of day 6/11 looks just like 11/11. And an hour or so later, today, yesterday and tomorrow are all the same. Apart from that, there was a quite massive rise in the graph in the last hour or so for TEL. - anyone willing to venture an opinion as to what this is about?

[Major von Tempsky]

Encouraging report of Moutter's speech in The Press this morning.
Huge share incentives being offered to top execs for TEL shareprice performance over the next 3 years. 1st target 20% compound growth in SP, 2nd target (lesser - if they fail to reach 1st) 15% compound growth in SP. i.e. $4.04 or the lesser $3.56.
Dazzling!
If they reach either of those....who cares about the other one...what was it's name?

[couta1]

Where do members see this stock heading this year,I've never held them for long but had a few easy trades moving a large volume and grabbed a divvy,bought a few the other day and may add more? but of course this is the year of growth stocks so apart from its good dividend are we going to see that rise up to $2.80 ish again like last year? How much should this stock be considered regulated in terms of political interference? Questions some of you may be able to shed light on ? I guess if it had a decent rise you could come away with more than some growth stocks if you include divvys in the short to medium term?

[craic]

A feature of TEL seems to be that it is hedge fund or similar for overseas investors. The other day when the drop in the NZ dollar against the US dollar
was announced, TEL went dead as a trading stock. Between my son and myself, I manage about 64,000 units of Tel and I think that is the safest stock around. The rise and fall seems to be a twice yearly event but there is a bob to be made if you care to play.

[couta1]

A feature of TEL seems to be that it is hedge fund or similar for overseas investors. The other day when the drop in the NZ dollar against the US dollar
was announced, TEL went dead as a trading stock. Between my son and myself, I manage about 64,000 units of Tel and I think that is the safest stock around. The rise and fall seems to be a twice yearly event but there is a bob to be made if you care to play.
So it seems its really a trading stock rather than a long term hold unless you want a regular divvy I guess,I wonder how much regulatory influence will stop it from ever becoming a high flyer again?

[peat]

I don't usually make anecdotal comments on companies on this forum and I have no idea how much business this represents but quite frankly the ongoing sagas with xtra's email security are totally unbelievable and absolutely unacceptable. They don't even know whats going on and admit this publicly. Is it because they've outsourced this operation to Yahoo and so don't have the ability to investigate it themselves or what ?

This is , what the 3rd or 4th major attack they've had where many customers have been breached and they still persist with their outsource supplier!!!

It may not be hugely relevant to their bottom line but it definitely shows a weakness in management that these breaches continue with seemingly little (other than the patchup at the time) being done to improve the operational environment.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11185297

[craic]

Never have a problem. This is part and parcel of the system where people search out and find weaknesses and exploit them. Telecom is no more vulnerable than any other. I use kaspersky security systems and I have a false address in my address book that starts 00 so any attempt to go through that system warns me that "I" have sent an e-mail that could not be delivered. I can then advise my contacts.

[peat]

Telecom is no more vulnerable than any other

Whether this is true or not is not the whole point. The public will certainly perceive them as more vulnerable due to the repeated media storms in this area.

I personally believe that it is not true, that there are weaknesses in their security arena as the hacking is happening at the ISP level not at the PC level , your local Kaspersky is irrelevant.
The false email address isn't a bad idea though.

[winner69]

What's up with TEL this arvo? She's going up fast since about 12:30PM.

Couta buying .......said he was tempted to buy heaps if them

[Major von Tempsky]

We could start a rumour - based on the recent commentary on Telstra that it was sitting on heaps of cash but because of the Australian version of CoCom is unable to buy anything in Oz - that it is eying up TEL ;-)

[winner69]

We could start a rumour - based on the recent commentary on Telstra that it was sitting on heaps of cash but because of the Australian version of CoCom is unable to buy anything in Oz - that it is eying up TEL ;-)

Over 5 billion cash .....TEL just petty cash


http://www.businessspectator.com.au/news/2014/1/15/telecommunication/rivals-fear-telstra-cash-pile


. Rivals fear Telstra cash pile

[couta1]

Couta buying .......said he was tempted to buy heaps if them
Your right there winner bought 90k shares at 2.30 but sold last night at 2.355 ,didn't expect the rise to 2.40 but that's okay can't always time the top aye

[clip]

Your right there winner bought 90k shares at 2.30 but sold last night at 2.355 ,didn't expect the rise to 2.40 but that's okay can't always time the top aye

nothing wrong with a few grand for clicking a couple of buttons :D

[blockhead]

By my estimations there wouldn't be much more than a few hundred $ in it after brokers commission

[troyvdh]

are there any folk out there that like me...absolutely HATE this company.

[clip]

By my estimations there wouldn't be much more than a few hundred $ in it after brokers commission

asb 0.3% would be $540 fees total, i think so around 4k profit?

[blockhead]

Ah ha, Direct snaffle 1% plus off me for trades around the 5-10k area !

Just checked, $29.90 up to $15,000 and 0.20% after that so cost will start dropping after $15g (as a percentage)

The bigger I go the more I save....sounds like Mrs Blocky when shopping !

[clip]

From memory ASB is the lower of $30 or 0.3% (0.3% is $30 at $10k anyway so all trades below 10k are $30)

[Major von Tempsky]

Do it on Direct Broking computer system for $29.90 regardless of order size :-)

[couta1]

asb 0.3% would be $540 fees total, i think so around 4k profit?
Your onto it clip that's the figure others may have to brush up on their maths skills,use DB so $29.90 for first 15k then 0.2 % after that,DB cheaper than ASB when you do the sums, it will be interesting to see if the price stays at $2.40 ish if people anticipate a strong half year result but it will plummet if results poor so don't think you'd want to pay much more than $2.30 to cover your backside either way,cheers

[craic]

My two trades yesterday cost me around $380. Unfortunately I jumped the wrong way for the first time in 12 months and sold out at 235.5 hoping to buy back a couple of cents lower but it went the other way to 240 tonight. Now I have to use some of my reserves to restore my position in time for THE BIG PROFIT ANNOUNCEMENT in five weeks time. There are always those in the know ahead of these announcements and that tends to be reflected in the price. I will buy tomorrow and hold. This is a good time for CNU holders to sell out and buy in here and make a profit. You can always buy back into CNU or one of the other dogs in the kennel later.

[craic]

are there any folk out there that like me...absolutely HATE this company.

So whats the point? You hate the company because you screwed up? or maybe they sacked someone you know? - or maybe your arithmetic isn't very good?

[couta1]

My two trades yesterday cost me around $380. Unfortunately I jumped the wrong way for the first time in 12 months and sold out at 235.5 hoping to buy back a couple of cents lower but it went the other way to 240 tonight. Now I have to use some of my reserves to restore my position in time for THE BIG PROFIT ANNOUNCEMENT in five weeks time. There are always those in the know ahead of these announcements and that tends to be reflected in the price. I will buy tomorrow and hold. This is a good time for CNU holders to sell out and buy in here and make a profit. You can always buy back into CNU or one of the other dogs in the kennel later.
Sounds like we were both in the same boat,bought 2.30 sold 2.355 didn't see the 2.40 coming but it may drop back yet, I thought the announcement was Jan 21 st ?

[couta1]

Craic your correct it is Feb 21 st still time for price to drop depending on currentcy movements

[Goldstein]

I picked TEL in the share contest not as a filler but I reckon the management are going to do what Deane did in the 90s and make the company leaner and more efficient. They tried the growth thing with dear old Tereasa, but a plot of the historical SP isn't pretty. My point being we could see an upturn in the SP and your trading strategies might need tweaking - perhaps longer trades might give more of a return this year?

[troyvdh]

cracic ..you cannot be serious.You must be aged under 25 or somewhat oblivious/devoid of any common sense.
This company has royally screwed kiwis for decades.
I challenge you to say otherwise.

I forgot to mention that what telecom et al were charging in recent years particularly for calls and texts was probably the highest in the OECD.
So high were the costs its embarrassing.

again I challenge you to say otherwise.

[couta1]

Craig, I follow your strategy of always maintaining or increasing your share number but from my viewpoint it doesn't matter what price I buy the share for if I sell in at a profit I'm increasing my capital base so to me it doesn't matter if I drop the share volume by buying at a higher price as long as my capital base keeps growing through selling for a profit, I guess your way you end up with a bigger divvy though

[craic]

cracic ..you cannot be serious.You must be aged under 25 or somewhat oblivious/devoid of any common sense.
This company has royally screwed kiwis for decades.
I challenge you to say otherwise.

I forgot to mention that what telecom et al were charging in recent years particularly for calls and texts was probably the highest in the OECD.
So high were the costs its embarrassing.

again I challenge you to say otherwise.

This forum is not a political stand nor is it a business assessment forum - it is a sharemarket forum - about making, or losing money on sharemarket investing. Since May 2013, I have gained a 15% return on my TEL investment - thats 22% per annum if it keeps up. I could argue that TEL is one of the most efficient of its type in the world given the size of its customer base and the geographical problems of servicing a mountainous country almost two-and-a-half times the length of Great Britain - but I won't. I will leave it up to you to share your money making investment strategies with the rest of us. As to my age and my level of intelligence - you are way out on those counts too.

[warthog]

are there any folk out there that like me...absolutely HATE this company.

In the hog's view, it would be correct to say that TEL has not managed to sufficiently replace its unfortunate culture that has been maintained since inception.

Some have tried: consultants, CEOs, individuals here and there, but the bedrock arrogance, ineptitude, indifference and downright contempt for customers remains intact.

The only customers that TEL are winning are those who churn for economic reasons and they will turn on a penny and leave TEL in a moment for somebody else (which is why TEL are so keen on fixed terms, although this is a far from uncommon approach in the ISP market) and those who are attracted to the them for their established relationships/clout.

Problem for TEL is, everything is being eroded.

[warthog]

This forum is not a political stand nor is it a business assessment forum - it is a sharemarket forum - about making, or losing money on sharemarket investing. Since May 2013, I have gained a 15% return on my TEL investment - thats 22% per annum if it keeps up ...

Are you really prepared to stand behind a company you have invested in for just over half a year and expect your 22% per annum gains to continue? They may well do, but much of what TEL used to do (the servicing you mention) is now done by others and just in the area of email it isn't even being done to quick-and-dirty ISP standards (Yahoo/Xtra).

[warthog]

cracic ..you cannot be serious.You must be aged under 25 or somewhat oblivious/devoid of any common sense.
This company has royally screwed kiwis for decades.
I challenge you to say otherwise.

I forgot to mention that what telecom et al were charging in recent years particularly for calls and texts was probably the highest in the OECD.
So high were the costs its embarrassing.

again I challenge you to say otherwise.

In respect of calling charges, for example, TEL are heavily reliant on the tricks they use to prevent their customers leaving them for better and cheaper providers.

They have no VoIP product as yet, and their challenge will be that the more success they have on the VoIP front, the less money they will make. It's the classic MYOB/Intuit scenario as the incumbents face off Xero: the more success they have, the more it hurts their bottom line.

[craic]

I am a Telecom customer - have been for years. My telephones, computers, Sky Television, everything is on the one bill, deducted monthly from my account. I rarely bother to look at the account on my PC. Recently, I got into a tangle with my accounts and a helpdesk person with a very kiwi accent sorted it out and put instructions on my email for me to save for future emergencies. I have a cellphone that I almost never use - I am quite happy to enjoy my privacy AND the company of the people that I am with at the time, without buzzers going off in my pocket reminding me that some bored prick has decided to tell me some Irish joke that he has just heard - as for texting - I prefer the English language.

[BIRMANBOY]

I usually try and keep my posts impersonal and professional but will make an exception for you. Get up to speed and say something relevant and considered. You obviously don't read posts that others put up or you would know that Craic is well over the '25" and has been making money on TEL for ages. You obviously have a "thing" about TEL and as has been stated before by others it would be nice if you dragged yourself off to the local "home for dogs" per your normal woof, woof snarl posts. There's never ever any actual facts and figures just emotional dribble and uneducated sh***te. Now pardon me for my sins...I'm too old for this c**p anyway.
cracic ..you cannot be serious.You must be aged under 25 or somewhat oblivious/devoid of any common sense.
This company has royally screwed kiwis for decades.
I challenge you to say otherwise.

I forgot to mention that what telecom et al were charging in recent years particularly for calls and texts was probably the highest in the OECD.
So high were the costs its embarrassing.

again I challenge you to say otherwise.

[craic]

Well! That was a rough ride. Used up my reserve cash to buy back in at 237 this morning and finished the day intact at 243. for a $2220 increase in value on the day. I might leave the trading for a while and ride this one up to 275cps? with the 11cps? dividend paid on or about 4th April. Stinking hot day in the bay and I can't even have a beer to celebrate - it's one of my two fasting days in this week.

[stones]

Craic...you may have had a rough sort of day but a good finish for you congrats. Your post 2710 mirrors my thoughts and actions as well as the next one by BIRMANBOY. I don't write too much but enjoy your constructive comments. I am an avid TEL investor and believe TEL will ride for a while as well.

[In4a$]

I like your strategy craic, good luck.

[Goldstein]

The problem with TEL from an investment point of view is that they have made the same mistakes as Microsoft. They had it good for some time. Roderick Deane went on a cost cutting exercise and the monopoly's SP headed north. However, shortly afterward the telco industry really started to change. In particular the surge in mobile users/devices and internet technologies such as VOIP. Telecom was really not agile enough and was pretty much directed by non-technical people.

Microsoft also thought they were always going to be sweet with people buying endless PCs with their operating system and that was the only strategy people like Ballmer unserstood. They were too late getting into the mobile OS scene and spent all their effort on Windows Vista because this is what had always made Microsoft money. A guy I went to school with who now lectures at the Auckland University Comp Sci dept called Windows Vista the longest suicide note in history, which got quoted everywhere at the time.

Any techinical company must be agile these days. I think TEL are trying to become that now. It will be insteresting to see if they succeed.

I find it amusing to hear that people berate TEL. They are what the govt set them up to be - a corporate entity. They have been trying to maximise return to their shareholders for some time now.

[clip]

End of the day telecom still provide some of the best internet & telephony services to general consumers (business, residential, individual) at a fair price (fair being not extravagantly higher than other providers of the same quality services), and hold some of the largest market shares over mobile/internet, so they're going to continue making money. If they can add more value or new services to increase value, the SP should go up I feel

[airedale]

Interesting thing about the charts is that on the ASX it shows steadily rising moving averages for about the last six months.
On the NZX although recently strong it still looks rangebound.
Watching TEL with a beady eye, and keeping a weather eye on Craic as well:).

[warthog]

End of the day telecom still provide some of the best internet & telephony services to general consumers (business, residential, individual) at a fair price (fair being not extravagantly higher than other providers of the same quality services), and hold some of the largest market shares over mobile/internet, so they're going to continue making money. If they can add more value or new services to increase value, the SP should go up I feel

No, read Goldstein's post above.

TEL are resistant to change. Any returns that come out of that company are due to the momentum they continue to enjoy (like Microsoft).

"fair price" services? Where are you comparing with? TEL are not competitive internationally.

[clip]

I did read it - to quote him "Any techinical company must be agile these days. I think TEL are trying to become that now. It will be insteresting to see if they succeed."
Which goes along with my saying "If they can add more value or new services to increase value, the SP should go up I feel"

I'm comparing TEL with the other national providers, TEL.NZ are not competing internationally, their market is NZ I would have thought so they do not need to be competitive internationally? (I am not holding nor have I held in the past)

[craic]

Vista? Is there another system out there? This laptop came with Vista donkeys years ago and it is still on Vista. My PC is on 2000 or something like that. Maybe if I had a new system I would get a better price for my TEL shares next time?

[Goldstein]

Vista? Is there another system out there? This laptop came with Vista donkeys years ago and it is still on Vista. My PC is on 2000 or something like that. Maybe if I had a new system I would get a better price for my TEL shares next time?

I develop scientific software for a living and use Linux (Centos). Craic, if your PC is running WIndows XP make sure to move away from that by April this year. Microsoft are no longer going to support it and it will become vulnerable. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-nz/windows/end-support-help

I would hate to hear that your TEL trading was interrupted due to technical difficulties.

[couta1]

Vista? Is there another system out there? This laptop came with Vista donkeys years ago and it is still on Vista. My PC is on 2000 or something like that. Maybe if I had a new system I would get a better price for my TEL shares next time?
You must have windows xp as vista didn't come out until 2005 with was succeeded by windows 7 in 2009, stay away from windows 8 if you upgrade its a pain in the backside to use compared to windows 7 IMHO for your purposes windows 7 would do just fine

[airedale]

I was happy with Vista for years until my machine crashed, so bought a new one with Windows 7. That's ok but I did stay away from Windows 8 as it was too different and most of the people my age {60+} say the same.

[clip]

Yep.. past history suggests every second release of windows is a bit of a flop. Win95 - pretty good. 98 - average. Win2000 good, WinME crap. WinXP good, Vista crap. Win7 good (win7 basically was the polished release of what Vista was meant to be). Win8 - depending on your opinion, not so great. Now they have already announced it's replacement windows9 for next year - which I imagine will be to windows8 what win7 was to vista.
But i digress, we are getting off topic from telecom :)

[In4a$]

I have Windows 8, upgraded to 8s I think it was called, been good, no problems on home PC, & 2 laptops. Thinking of switching to Apple for my next PC though.
Disc: Trade TEL ocassionally , dont hold

[QOH]

I loathe windows 8 and can't see anything better with 8.1, might pay for an app to get Win 7 again.

[clip]

There's a free program called 'StartMenu8' which will restore the win7 start menu to windows 8 - gives you all your programs, control panel, power off/shutdown/sleep commands etc. I find it makes win8 a lot more usable/user friendly

[craic]

I develop scientific software for a living and use Linux (Centos). Craic, if your PC is running WIndows XP make sure to move away from that by April this year. Microsoft are no longer going to support it and it will become vulnerable. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-nz/windows/end-support-help

I would hate to hear that your TEL trading was interrupted due to technical difficulties.
My "old" machine is on Windows XP. Just a fortnight ago I purchased some software Slimclean Plus, a Michrosoft certified gold partner and applied it to my old machine. It took the programme - and me - hours and hours to get through the accumulated rubbish and restore my PC to a fairly efficient model, better if anything, than my laptop that is Vista. I no longer fall asleep in my big soft armachair and wake up with scorched knees or a cup of coffee all over my crutch. I function in a straight armchair in a cool bedroom corner.

[bull....]

interesting telecom has not renewed their sky committment, probably smart keep options open for them to partner with someone like netflix?

[craic]

Less than three weeks to the big announcement 21/2 February.

[troyvdh]

How much creditably does this company have...surely some folk must be thinking the same....

[peat]

How much creditably does this company have...surely some folk must be thinking the same....

Telecom has short-term and long-term financing programmes in place:

• Short term consisting of a US$1 billion European Commercial Paper programme and a NZ$500 million note facility; and

• Long term consisting of a US$2 billion Euro Medium Term Note Programme, an A$1 billion Australian Medium Term Note Programme and a domestic bond programme.

In addition, Telecom has a committed standby facility of NZ$400 million with a number of creditworthy banks and committed overdraft facilities of NZ$20 million with
New Zealand banks and A$5 million with Australian banks.

[craic]

TYH you keep up this constant rubbish about TEL to the point where most regulars posters have long since concluded that you are either jealous or stupid, or possibly both. I am, and will continue to be, one of those lucky punters who enjoy the fruits of this company. If you want to have a shred of credibility, give us one or two examples of your superior analysis of the market
How much creditably does this company have...surely some folk must be thinking the same....

[troyvdh]

wow...what to say...well ..what truly saddens me (your comment that most regulars poster have ...blah blah) is that you think of me as you do.
Yes I indeed wish you well "as one of those lucky punters who...blah blah but craig....surely you gest...you state that I am either stupid or jealous...but I say to you sir are an example of someone who has very minimal moral values...in that you obviously rejoice in the "fruits of this company" to your obvious advantage..good on you cobber.

MEANWHILE....NZ rates poorly...re costs/speed associated with cell phone and internet ...AND why would that be............

Honestly mate....get real

[stones]

If you want to have a shred of credibility, give us one or two examples of your superior analysis of the market[/QUOTE]

We are still waiting TVH.

[Major von Tempsky]

You'll be waiting a long time.

The conclusion has to be he's stupid. For the 3rd year in a row he's coming very close to bottom of Sharetrader's sharepicking competition - and there's over 200 competitors this year.

[Major von Tempsky]

Not a bad little write-up on TEL by a broker in The Press yesterday...

[Jim]

Not a bad little write-up on TEL by a broker in The Press yesterday...

I think they are just telling the truths. Tel is a slow moving gorilla.

[blockhead]

Well at the moment it is a slow moving gorilla on the rise, sp is as high today as it has been for a long while

[craic]

I slipped up with TEL in the last couple of weeks and sold when I should have held - in other words it didn't go down after I sold so I had to rush around to scrape up enough skekels to maintain my holding. It was really painful yesterday to have to pay 242cps but todays end shows it as 246.5 so I am a couple of grand better off today and I suspect there will be a lot more wind in the sails before friday. Maybe we might get back up into the 280's soon?

[Bobdn]

I'm really enjoying this Telecom run. I buy and hold and reinvest dividends. I have a total of 23198 shares at average purchase price of 2.135. Telecom's increase is off setting some (only a tiny bit) of the daily pain I feel with my CNU holdings ;) If it gets to 280, Craic, I'll definitely be celebrating with a KFC quarter pack WITH an extra piece of chicken. You can bet on it!!!!

[craic]

Drop your CNU holdings now and buy TEL. It will increase and recover some of your losses, THEN you can buy back into CNU if you are so inclined at some time in the future. It may be that in two or , possibly five or six more years some politician will screw the taxpayer and bail them out. Meanwhile they are still digging up the cables that were laid recently around here.

[Major von Tempsky]

I'm holding CNU until next Monday week, I'm curious to see what they have dreamed up. Some speculators think that after the ComCom review they will in fact be in a better position than they were before ComCom interfered.
With Tel I think it's possible the reason they withdrew from the agreement with Sky is because they have found some other avenue of delivering content via cable and that this will come out to some extent on Friday :-)

[macduffy]

I don't think that Will Shakespeare would have been impressed!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11207031

[clip]

Wonder how long they've had this name change planned/in the works.. since at least when the logo changed the asterisk thing it is now I guess!

[bull....]

Not surprising they going with internet tv, this is the future delivering products to customers from there network, the only big unanwsered question is how good is the content ( considering sky have a monopoly on content in nz ) it makes you wonder. netflix? would be nice, quickflix i certainly hope not, original content risky and expensive. let the guessing begin

[777]

Stuff poll has 77% against name change.

[couta1]

Market not like results or name change

[bull....]

Good move changing the name, address the future demographics where telecom name is not hugely popular

[craic]

Was watching this closely before the market opened and the price was up to 242cps. Had a look at the depth and most of the sales are small to very small quantities. I suspect that there are small punters who assume that having the shares today is good enough to gain the dividend? or maybe i'm just an optimist. The "real" market usually starts about 2-3pm and that will be interesting.

[bull....]

not so good the revenue declines, not being matched or bettered by the cost cutting

[artemis]

Good idea to change the name. Current name has a lot of old baggage. 'Spark' is good too. Stuff voters clearly don't like things to change, sadly.

[couta1]

Was watching this closely before the market opened and the price was up to 242cps. Had a look at the depth and most of the sales are small to very small quantities. I suspect that there are small punters who assume that having the shares today is good enough to gain the dividend? or maybe i'm just an optimist. The "real" market usually starts about 2-3pm and that will be interesting.
Volume of 5mill is not small for this time of the day,a few half mill lots going through,plenty of time to buy for divvy with record date march 21st,will we see sub 2.30 next week?

[BlackPeter]

Changing a company name is expensive and typically a sign for desperate or ego-centric management. Consider not just all the new business cards and stationary they have to print, manuals and brochures to replace, products to re-brand, compliance certificates to update and customers and partners to inform - all of that for no good reason. The big cost for a name change however is typically loosing lots of good will which the old name carried. The new CEO should better put his effort and money into improving Telecom Service than in building himself an expensive (and futile) monument. Successful companies don't need to change their name, they spend their shareholders money more wisely.

If I would hold TEL shares (discl - I don't) - this would be the last sign for me to run into the hills.

[couta1]

Yes BP and with the ever increasing aged population and a lot of them Telecom customers because they have always been Telecom supporters,they may lose some loyal customer base with a name change?

[RTM]

Couldn't agree with you more BlackPeter. Well summarised.

[craic]

Big trades here are automatic stop-losses. Our portfolio is around 150g worth and I am happy to stay and continue trading. Unfortunately its Friday and too many players are already half-way to the beach by this time. If I still had CNU, and a few others, I would be flogging them off and buying in to Spark. I had a chicken called sparky at one time, she was part bantam and several other breeds. She came out of the bush regularly with a dozen or more chicks and woe betide any other chicken or other creature that came too close. Looking forward to a bumpy ride but my still is chugging away at the moment and that needs an eagle eye.

[Joshuatree]

Increasingly ageing pop would relate well to "SPARKY" and the kids too

[bull....]

big trades were at 2.34, couldnt imagine big players being away on there announcement day and vol 6m already suggests big boys at play

[Harvey Specter]

Good idea to change the name. Current name has a lot of old baggage. 'Spark' is good too. Stuff voters clearly don't like things to change, sadly.I think in the long run I agree. Hard to get rid of a brand like telecom which has so much value.

But they are not using the brand to the full advantage. They will still have Skinny, bigpond (or whatever their naked broadband is called) and not Showmetv.

Should have kept it simple with Sparkphone, SparkBroadband, Sparkmobile, SparkTV

[macduffy]

Changing a company name is expensive and typically a sign for desperate or ego-centric management. Consider not just all the new business cards and stationary they have to print, manuals and brochures to replace, products to re-brand, compliance certificates to update and customers and partners to inform - all of that for no good reason. The big cost for a name change however is typically loosing lots of good will which the old name carried. The new CEO should better put his effort and money into improving Telecom Service than in building himself an expensive (and futile) monument. Successful companies don't need to change their name, they spend their shareholders money more wisely.

If I would hold TEL shares (discl - I don't) - this would be the last sign for me to run into the hills.

Yes, indeed!

A better idea would have been spending the time and money to sort out the Yahoo email mess. A few degrees harder though, of course.

[peat]

buying in to Spark. I had a chicken called sparky at one time, she was part bantam and several other breeds. She came out of the bush regularly with a dozen or more chicks and woe betide any other chicken or other creature that came too close..


TA, FA?


or CA



Chicken analysis

[Major von Tempsky]

You don't like talk of increased dividend at end of year? Increased mobile share? Promising developments? Sharper focus on NZ? Increased cost reductions?
Some people are hard to please....or maybe they are short term speculators....or TA rather than FA....or don't invest for income....

There was a Marketing Professor on Radio NZ at lunchtime saying the name change is a good move...I tend to defer to his expert judgment....

[Minerbarejet]

I think in the long run I agree. Hard to get rid of a brand like telecom which has so much value.

But they are not using the brand to the full advantage. They will still have Skinny, bigpond (or whatever their naked broadband is called) and not Showmetv.

Should have kept it simple with Sparkphone, SparkBroadband, Sparkmobile, SparkTVThe employees will no doubt be known as Sparklers.
Dont know about this - seems a bit daft. I usually associate sparks with something not right in the electrical dept- if the cap fits wear it I suppose:)

[peat]

meanwhile at Saatchi

5520

[PartyPooper]

I've already started callling my friend who works at Gen-i Sparkly. Seemed to bug him so thats a win =D
TEL will be around for years but they have had to much brand damage done already to the younger generation.
However saying "Telecom is f**ken S**t" just rolls of the tongue. "Spark is f**ken S**t" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

SNAP and Orcon well and truely beat them to it on the naked DSL front. In 3-5 years I think a landline will be a rare thing for the newer generations.

As a personal statement their mobile network sucks as well. Always losing recpetion right in the middle of Christchurch and no recpetion at all when at my parents rural place. Paying $20 dollars a month for 500MB is crap.

[Longhaul]

I always thought (and am not alone) that the Telecom asterisk looks like a cat's arse. Doesn't look like a spark to me.

Disc - I work in marketing so don't take anything I say seriously.

[pierre]

As an ex-marketing man I think the name change for Telecom is an excellent idea and is coming at precisely the right time for the company.

The re-branding is not a cover-up for more of the same:

- TEL has been substantially transformed from the lumbering inefficient dinosaur that it used to be.
- TEL has dealt with many (though not all - e.g. Yahoo) of the legacy issues that used to damage it's perception in the minds of so many.
- TEL has a significant number of new initiatives that will appeal to a broad cross-section of the market - particularly the younger digital-savvy crowd.

The new name indicates action, enthusiasm, vitality and energy and (provided the company acts accordingly) will appeal to those currently negative towards TEL. It is hardly likely to alienate those who have grown up with and stayed with the company through all its trials and tribulations so there is little downside to the initiative.

I like the idea, I like the name and hope they do it sooner rather than later - though definitely not on April 1.

[macduffy]

There's been some pretty uninspired name changes in the past. Old timers will remember NZ Breweries' attempt to rebrand their Wellington "Red Band" beer as "Lucky" back in the 60's. Fell terribly flat - excuse the pun! At least TEL's effort seems a bit more inspired than NZ Refining's change to Refining NZ a year or so ago!

[couta1]

I think Telecom whoops I mean Spark should hire you without hesitation Pierre ,such loyalty could only put more Spark into the company:cool:

[peat]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spark

are they finally in tune with their wider customer base?

[pierre]

I think Telecom whoops I mean Spark should hire you without hesitation Pierre ,such loyalty could only put more Spark into the company:cool:

Thanks Couta, but I wasn't commenting out of loyalty - just looking at it from a marketing perspective and its potential for growth for TEL. I really can't see any downside to the initiative and I'm pretty confident that the $20m investment will be recouped in a relatively short time. It's probably only a relatively minor blip on their advertising and marketing budget anyway.

Make a diary note to see how the company is perceived in a year from now - it will be vastly different from today.

[stones]

Whats in a name. Maybe lots maybe nothing but I think looking deeper i.e. directors staff they are a good team and keeping up with the times

[BlackPeter]

Thanks Couta, but I wasn't commenting out of loyalty - just looking at it from a marketing perspective and its potential for growth for TEL. I really can't see any downside to the initiative and I'm pretty confident that the $20m investment will be recouped in a relatively short time. It's probably only a relatively minor blip on their advertising and marketing budget anyway.

Make a diary note to see how the company is perceived in a year from now - it will be vastly different from today.

Hi Pierre, lets hope for the remaining Sparkers ;) that you are right and the name change a sparkling idea.

As well - I obviously realize that re-branding is one of the great marketing tools (hype's?) of the the century. I worked myself in a company which re-branded four times in two decades (typically with every change of CEO / Marketing Manager) ... and so far the revenue over time either stayed flat (sort of following inflation) or dropped (following gravity).

Just for our education (and to avoid the need to wait for another year to see whether it worked for "Sparkling Telecom") - can you give us a number of recent examples for companies which re-branded AND increased (or returned) their success because of the re-branding? I am sure there must be some, just can't remember ...

[pierre]

Hi Pierre, lets hope for the remaining Sparkers ;) that you are right and the name change a sparkling idea.

As well - I obviously realize that re-branding is one of the great marketing tools (hype's?) of the the century. I worked myself in a company which re-branded four times in two decades (typically with every change of CEO / Marketing Manager) ... and so far the revenue over time either stayed flat (sort of following inflation) or dropped (following gravity).

Just for our education (and to avoid the need to wait for another year to see whether it worked for "Sparkling Telecom") - can you give us a number of recent examples for companies which re-branded AND increased (or returned) their success because of the re-branding? I am sure there must be some, just can't remember ...

How about Z Energy as the most recent example?

[macduffy]

Onesteel (Aust) changed its name to Arrium in July 2012 and the SP has almost doubled since! How much credit should be claimed by the name change is a moot point though. On the other side of the ledger, Panoramic isn't half the company that Sally Malay was before the change. But then, neither is the price of nickel!

[777]

Hasn't done Kermadec much good.

Any way I am now out of TEL as at 5pm settle up.

Big problem Monday, what to top up in.

[Joshuatree]

Condominium was shortened to Condom ,sales went up straight away.

[In4a$]

Giving up a huge brand name, and loyally followed by many, for spark !. Sounds like a management team struggling for ideas on what to do, or a new manager making change because "change is good". I can see the spark fading away to a dull ember in years to come.
Should keep Telecom and start Spark as a subsiduary brand.
Disc: No longer hold TEL and use Orcon.

[BlackPeter]

How about Z Energy as the most recent example?

True - they (Z) do reasonably well. Not sure however whether they do well because they changed their name (which they had to do anyway, being sold from the mother Shell) or due to improving their offer and customer service. Coming back to Telecom (what this thread is about) - I personally still think that investing the 20 Million bucks into improving their customer service instead of changing the name would have done Telecom better.

[pierre]

True - they (Z) do reasonably well. Not sure however whether they do well because they changed their name (which they had to do anyway, being sold from the mother Shell) or due to improving their offer and customer service. Coming back to Telecom (what this thread is about) - I personally still think that investing the 20 Million bucks into improving their customer service instead of changing the name would have done Telecom better.

Z didn't have to rebrand - they chose to do so rather than pay an on-going licence fee to use the Shell brand. It was also appropriate because they transformed their product offering as TEL also has and is doing.

My point is that TEL has already (albeit, not perfectly) changed their game dramatically and has many more bullets yet to fire, so the time is right to reimage the business and appeal to a wider audience. They will also be able to do so without losing much, if any, of their existing customer base.

Regardless of your opinion or mine they're doing it anyway and the conversation has now moved to the new SPARK thread - I think we should too.

[777]

Well I was loyal to Telecom but now that it just wants to be anybody then that loyalty is misdirected. Sold up yesterday and will work out who will be my providers over next month or so.

It is about Telecom so posting on this thread is the correct place.

[In4a$]

Telecom management reminds me of their logo, "a mass of squiggley lines", looks a real mess.

[Aaron]

can't say I care about the name either way but after my TV crapped out I have been procrastinating getting a new one and find I can just go to TV on demand on my computer and pick and choose what I want to watch. Ads are shorter too for some reason. If there is greater content online I might not worry about the TV anymore just get a bigger screen for the computer. I think(don't know) that this will be the way of the future and good to see Telecom/Spark taking a risk and getting in early. Time will tell if they are right and can compete with sky and the free to air channels. For a tight arse like me free to air will be hard to beat but successful businesses are the ones that can provide goods and services people want.

[In4a$]

nice move 777.
What an abosolute waste of shareholders money.
There is a lot of value in the telecom branding that is about to be flushed down the tiolet.
Now spark is just another new name in an already well branded competitive sector.
Pleased they have cut the ties with SKY and are doing there own thing but the board should all be sacked for the rebranding idea.
Well said snapiti, board very short sighted I reckon, could have started Spark, then merged the brands changed the name what ever. Mistake to dump a brand name like Telecom overnight IMO, I might be wrong, will wait and see.

[warthog]

Well said snapiti, board very short sighted I reckon, could have started Spark, then merged the brands changed the name what ever. Mistake to dump a brand name like Telecom overnight IMO, I might be wrong, will wait and see.

"Telecom" is so 20th Century.

"Spark" has all sorts of attributes about it that "Telecom" doesn't. It has impact, movement, and dynamism.

Somebody here said they thought this change dated back to the logo change. The hog agrees.

Also, "Telecom" has baggage that TEL just wishes would go away.

[couta1]

Forsyth Barr analyst says telecom profit propped up by cable dividend money in NBR

[macduffy]

Also, "Telecom" has baggage that TEL just wishes would go away.

On its own, merely changing the name is about as effective as re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Are TEL shareholders and customers convinced that the legacy problems have been fixed, or at least being addressed? I don't use xtra myself but do have a couple of friends who continue to grumble about that particular service.

[craic]

Never a problem with xtra except overseas people among my friends and family who read the extra e that isn't there and complain when their email doesn't work. The Depth in this mornings buy and sell suggests that this will be up again and rising today. People grumble about almost every service provider for any number of reasons.

[whatsup]

Tel = fark !!

[Jay]

#2738

Have not had a real problem either craic, only the email hacking thing. Have had to chnage my password only once due to it.

Have not had a serious enough issue to warrant changing providers which would necessitate changing my email address - what a pain - shame there is not such a thing as email portability - yes I know I could go to a Gmail type email, then I could change broadband providers to my hearts content - except for the risk of having no broadband form a time

[RTM]

From memory ShareTrader would not let me set up as a user with an @gmail.com account. Bit of a pain.

Cheers
RTM.

[craic]

So 777 and others' how much did you lose seeing that TEL is back up to 244cps?

[couta1]

Big volume driving price up but as we all know it could easily drop back into the 2.30 s tomorrow or the next day,I don't see anything that's going to drive it up much further over the next while or stop it from trading in a narrow band except when it loads up its dividend but that's short lived as we know

[777]

So 777 and others' how much did you lose seeing that TEL is back up to 244cps?

I have always enjoyed your posts and it surprises me you want to gloat craic. But to satisfy you I split the proceeds roughly 50:50 between SUM and SKC so about $200.

[craic]

! was not gloating, more concerned that you might have started a run. I have my shirt on this company and at this moment its making 245.5. I have mine on sale at 246 - If I was lucky enough to get it I would sweat over getting them back a few cents cheaper - thats how I do what I do. I can't even have a drink to calm my nerves, its one of my two diet days and already I started the day by dropping my concrete mixer over a steep bank.

[BlackPeter]

Amazing article in NBR:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/retailer-has-beef-telecoms-new-tv-brand-152374

Apparently the terms "ShowMe" and "Show TV" are already trademarked in New Zealand (and not by Telecom). If the story is true, than it looks like Telecom isn't even able to do a simple Google search before spending $20 Million dollars for changing their brands ...

Enjoy, if you don't own them (discl: I don't ...)

[gv1]

Ah well, ASB has target price of 2.90.

[Ginger_steps_]

For those with access to a NBR subscription - there was a very interesting article by Jon Brewer which was an update to an 2011 article titled "the end of profit" (for telcos). The 2011 article predicted that telcos would no longer be profitable by 2015. Basically customer numbers are up however landlines are down - Mobile data being the main business. The cost of providing data has almost halved since 2011 but at the same time data revenue is now around 1/6 of what it used to be. The cross over of cost vs profit is predicted to happen this year! Interestingly enough this happens to coincide with telecom, now spark, moving into TV - which i believe ads credibility to the article. So on the assumption that the prediction is correct - Spark's future profitability relies solely on its performance in tv - a space with many giant competitors already.

Disc: Sold my entire holding.

A further thought - if the crossover takes place this year as predicted - how long could it take for Spark to become profitable (if ever) in the television sector? My thoughts on analysts 2.75 / 2.90 valuation due to turnaround strategy is that it is one giant pump and dump. Then again i am just a newb.

[peat]

Amazing article in NBR:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/retailer-has-beef-telecoms-new-tv-brand-152374

Apparently the terms "ShowMe" and "Show TV" are already trademarked in New Zealand (and not by Telecom). If the story is true, than it looks like Telecom isn't even able to do a simple Google search before spending $20 Million dollars for changing their brands ...



I read somewhere that Telecom said it had done all the research and didn't consider that an impediment.

[BlackPeter]

Amazing article in NBR:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/retailer-has-beef-telecoms-new-tv-brand-152374

Apparently the terms "ShowMe" and "Show TV" are already trademarked in New Zealand (and not by Telecom). If the story is true, than it looks like Telecom isn't even able to do a simple Google search before spending $20 Million dollars for changing their brands ...

Enjoy, if you don't own them (discl: I don't ...)

new article in NBR:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/spark-trademark-what-next-telecom-vy-p-153685

according to the article did they drop the "ShowMe" in the meantime ... and it sounds like the sparking process is as well not without problems ...

[Joshuatree]

Vaguely remember Telecom stole the name "telecom" off a small company who had the rights to it ,in the distant past

[craic]

A very good share doing well. I suggested to the disgruntled cnu people that they sell up and invest in and others that they sell up and invest in TEL -make some money and then reinvest in cnu or whatever else. Now those who did gained the 8cps and a reasonable growth to 245cps. Those who didn't - well sad.

[Bobdn]

Drop your CNU holdings now and buy TEL. It will increase and recover some of your losses, THEN you can buy back into CNU if you are so inclined at some time in the future. It may be that in two or , possibly five or six more years some politician will screw the taxpayer and bail them out. Meanwhile they are still digging up the cables that were laid recently around here.

hmm, when you told me to sell my CNU (your quote was from 16 February) the price was $1.44 and the Telecom share price was $2.42. Now the CNU price is $1.73 and the Telecom price is $2.44. I'm not an experienced investor but if I had done what you told me I would have lost an enormous amount of money.

The 6 cps net (or whatever it is) that I would have got for my Telecom shares isn't as good as 21% rise in my CNU.

[couta1]

hmm, when you told me to sell my CNU (your quote was from 16 February) the price was $1.44 and the Telecom share price was $2.42. Now the CNU price is $1.73 and the Telecom price is $2.44. I'm not an experienced investor but if I had done what you told me I would have lost an enormous amount of money.

The 6 cps net (or whatever it is) that I would have got for my Telecom shares isn't as good as 21% rise in my CNU.
Bobdn I think your find Craic had in mind the many who were holding with an entry price of over $2 to $3 range:cool:

[macduffy]

This TEL thread has gone very quiet lately but the SP's doing well. Incidentally, Macquarie have an Outperform on it at present.....

[freddagg]

This TEL thread has gone very quiet lately but the SP's doing well. Incidentally, Macquarie have an Outperform on it at present.....

Most discussion has moved to the Spark (Tel) thread

[macduffy]

Oops!

Thanks, fred. I've been walkabout and NZX still insists on listing it as TEL. Perhaps the sparky name hasn't been officially adopted yet? No matter, the rose by any other name is doing nicely at present.

[craic]

hmm, when you told me to sell my CNU (your quote was from 16 February) the price was $1.44 and the Telecom share price was $2.42. Now the CNU price is $1.73 and the Telecom price is $2.44. I'm not an experienced investor but if I had done what you told me I would have lost an enormous amount of money.

The 6 cps net (or whatever it is) that I would have got for my Telecom shares isn't as good as 21% rise in my CNU.
And now that TEL has risen to 276 and CNU is still down there? mabe the profits are about to roll for the TEL holders

[couta1]

And now that TEL has risen to 276 and CNU is still down there? mabe the profits are about to roll for the TEL holders
Although we know what happened last time Tel hit these prices,just an average divvy at these levels also but as always a great traders stock unless she takes a quick dive:scared:

[craic]

Trouble is its like being a goalie when the penalty shoot-out is on diving the right way is nigh impossible to judge.

[Silverlight]

remember there is a $2.09 target on TEL from a fund that is acting as a target mate. be careful and think it out before going and buying more tomorrow because the main people teading TEL during the day actually listen to these guys...

The moosie contrarian indicator strikes again, good run over the past 9 ;)

Looking a bit toppy now though.

[clip]

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/g536c895aca24b/Telecom-announces-new-game-streaming-service/

More good news from telecom imo, further appeal to the younger generation from my point of view, will be a good offering along with the new showmetv

[Zaphod]

http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/news/g536c895aca24b/Telecom-announces-new-game-streaming-service/

More good news from telecom imo, further appeal to the younger generation from my point of view, will be a good offering along with the new showmetv

Plenty of competition in that market, especially from the big players like Sony, Microsoft and direct services from many of the game studios. Will be interesting to see what Telecom regard as their point of competitive difference.

[tosspot]

Plenty of competition in that market, especially from the big players like Sony, Microsoft and direct services from many of the game studios. Will be interesting to see what Telecom regard as their point of competitive difference.
I can tell you guys from a young gamers perspective no one will really use this. Players will continue to buy from PSN, XBLA and steam. streaming is considered bad as its not ownership of your product and gamers are some of the most self entitled audience in the world.

[craic]

No comment on the "split" between Telecom and Sky? I haven't concerned myself with it because I have no idea what its about but my monthly account that covered Telephone, computers and Sky television is now in two parts. I am a technical dodo but bought a tablet (Enjoy 7 Plus) the other day and can't even charge it let alone work it - there were no instructions in the box. Thought it might be a handy gadget while travelling to manage my fortunes away from home. I don't use a cellphone.

[Jay]

Yes got the letter about Telecom & Sky parting ways, use to get a discount when first joined but that slowly disappeared and there was no benefit, but now they have moved it all around so I don'y have to.

Probably find the "instructions" are all on-line, which is fine unless you can't get the device on-line to start with :confused:

[clip]

Plenty of competition in that market, especially from the big players like Sony, Microsoft and direct services from many of the game studios. Will be interesting to see what Telecom regard as their point of competitive difference.

If it's dedicated NZ servers for popular games that will be a big hit with gamers (as opposed to playing on aus/US servers with higher ping)

[Zaphod]

I can tell you guys from a young gamers perspective no one will really use this. Players will continue to buy from PSN, XBLA and steam. streaming is considered bad as its not ownership of your product and gamers are some of the most self entitled audience in the world.

But do you really own those games you purchased from Steam (for example)? Years ago, most software EULA's were changes so that you are merely purchasing a licence to use, rather than actual ownership of the product. Steam provides you with this licence for the duration of your subscription, in much the same way the new Telecom service is likely to operate. So perhaps ownership is somewhat of an illusion anyway?

What intrigues me is that there is certainly a backlash against the subscription model as far as games are concerned, but yet services such as Spotify, Netflix etc. are booming. Perhaps as browser-based gaming technology matures, there will be an inextricable shift to the browser driven in part by the economies of scale game studies can enjoy from true platform independent development.

Disc: I too have my reservations about the subscription model.


If it's dedicated NZ servers for popular games that will be a big hit with gamers (as opposed to playing on aus/US servers with higher ping)

That's true, hopefully Telecom can gain access to hit titles but from what I have seen, most studios are attempting to go direct to market through their proprietary on-line stores which might make it difficult for Telecom. It'll be interesting to see the press release providing some further details.

[craic]

Tel confirmed to purchase the remainder of the spectrum. CPS now up to 273 - and rising? Pushed my "sell" price up to 276 in an effort to make a bob on the deal later today when the internationals get out of bed.

[Joshuatree]

​Vocus selling its NZ investments includes slingshot,NZ Racing and Orcon(i think)

1QFY18 Trading Update - New Zealand


Net broadband subscriber growth in Consumer of 3,365 in 1QFY18
Taking unfair share in UFB – 16% share of all UFB connections in 1QFY18
More than 50,000 UFB customers with a reduced churn rate of 1.4% in 1QFY18 (FY17 1.9%)

4,704 active energy customers and fastest growing energy retailer in Auckland
Bundling opportunity growing - energy attachment rate for new broadband customers 14.5% andmobile 13.3%[/COLOR]
55% of all subscribers signed in 1QFY18 were digital only sign ups

]Business & Government sector activities restructured under Vocus Communications branding
GM for business segments appointed recently
Vocus Communications energy services launched, targeting the SMB segment [/COLOR]

[trader_jackson]

​Vocus selling its NZ investments includes slingshot,NZ Racing and Orcon(i think)

1QFY18 Trading Update - New Zealand


Net broadband subscriber growth in Consumer of 3,365 in 1QFY18
Taking unfair share in UFB – 16% share of all UFB connections in 1QFY18
More than 50,000 UFB customers with a reduced churn rate of 1.4% in 1QFY18 (FY17 1.9%)
4,704 active energy customers and fastest growing energy retailer in Auckland
Bundling opportunity growing - energy attachment rate for new broadband customers 14.5% andmobile 13.3%[/COLOR]
55% of all subscribers signed in 1QFY18 were digital only sign ups
]Business & Government sector activities restructured under Vocus Communications branding
GM for business segments appointed recently
Vocus Communications energy services launched, targeting the SMB segment [/COLOR]



Correct, they are preparing the NZ business for sale - wonder if this means listing or trade sale? Probably trade sale, but to who and at what ratios? Vodafone before they list?