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whiteheron
25-05-2006, 08:51 PM
There seems to have been a lot of promoting recently in regard to CFDs --- reading the blurb indicates that for a relatively small sum invested you can control a very large investment and make serious money !

As with most things that sound too good to be true they invariably are , and I suspect that this is the case with CFDs

I have no doubt that it is feasibly possible to make good money IF you bet the right way but it seems to me that you can much more easily lose your shirt and more

With shares you actually own a portion of a company , not so with various derivatives

It seems to me that the issuers of CFDs etc are the ones who will invariably profit and that the investor will invariably lose out
( as it seems that the contract will ultimately produce a winner and a loser , pretty much the same as any other type of bet or wager )

Do I have it right , or is there some factor of which I am unaware and have not taken into account ?
The issuers will no doubt have themselves well protected so that they do not lose
So where does this leave the investor ?

Any thoughts and comments will be most appreciated , especially from those who have actually invested in CFDs ( or similar ) either profitably or unprofitably

whiteheron
27-05-2006, 10:09 AM
Thanks aspex

As they are only available in large liquid securities they are not available to me as
I only invest/trade in developing resource companies --- companies that are producing or very close to producing with ( hopefully ) a lot of upside

whiteheron
27-05-2006, 08:41 PM
aspex

My investment holdings
AWE
BMO
CUE
EXS
MCR
MMN
QGC
SMO

By the way , I couldnt get the link to the Sharechat site to work , said "no link specified" and as I am not too savvy about computers once I get out of my comfort zone I am lost

Ricardo
29-05-2006, 07:37 AM
aspex

just read your most recent post, then did a search on CFD, only to find there is not much on this site. You have clearly been in the game longer than most here, and if you have 3 accounts must be serious.

With the arrival of CMC here, I expect CFD's trading will start to catch up with the UK / Australia. I have just opened an account with them.

Could you give us an indication of how you have found trading CFD's compares with trading shares. I don't expect you to reveal your net worth or annual income, but just relative risk/reward and return for capital risked / your time input etc. How much of your capital would you risk on any trade, and what would be your worst drawdown. Are you making a living at it?

Don't expect you to write a book, but I would really appreciate input from someone that is doing it, as oppossed to testimonials from the provider. Thanks.

whiteheron
29-05-2006, 04:26 PM
aspex

Thanks --- all shares listed by me are are Australian

Think I will keep with shares at present
I have an investment account and a trading account , all but one of my shares are Australian

I think that CFDs may be a bit too speculative for my liking but will try to get to grips with them so that I undesstand all aspects , especially the downsides

Ricardo
29-05-2006, 05:29 PM
aspex

Thanks for that. I will begin very cautiously. Logically, if you have a system with positive expectancy for shares, then doing the same thing should work with CFD's. However I suspect with only 5% down sticking to the rules could be a magnitude harder.

port hills
19-06-2006, 08:23 AM
I'm looking for someone in Christchurch or surrounding area who trades CFDs that would be happy to get together for a chat and show me the software they use etc.

I'm interested in getting started trading these but to date have only traded shares.

Cheers :)

skinny
19-06-2006, 10:10 PM
Whiteheron, my broker offers CFD trades on aroun 400 listed ASX stocks, including from your list above AWE and MCR. A handful of NZX cross-listed stocks (TWR, TEL, LNN, FPA and FBU) are also available.

Mwithy
30-06-2006, 03:01 PM
Hey Folks,

On the topic of CFDs, is anyone aware of some detail of the tax implications. Reason i ask is that i trade shares relatively actively but have escaped the attentions of the IRD thus far. How do they treat CFDs. By that i accept that if i was to trade CFDs i would be liable for full income tax on any gains. But what are the implications re my traditional portfolio.

Cheers,
Matt

Ricardo
01-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Mwlthy, if you search this site you'll find tax implications of most strategies well covered. My interpretation for your question - if you keep your traditional share portfolio "separated" as far as records, broker and/or bank accounts etc, nothing should change.
Your CFD trading would be a separate (taxable) activity.

However, assuming your current share activites don't feature on your tax return (if you do one), by trading CFD's it is much more likely that eventually you will be audited.
Then IRD's interpretaion of whether you were holding your shares for capital preservation or with the intention of making a profit may differ from yours.

If you start hedging positions in your traditional account by taking positions with CFD's then I believe it could be quite difficult to convince IRD your share activity was not undertaken with the intention of making a profit. If the level of activity was low enough you might get away with it.

As CFD's are quite new to NZ, IRD may still be a bit short on policy. Researching CFD's I was interested to see that Spread Betting is very similar to CFD's and is popular in the UK because it is classified as a "bet" and hence is not taxable.

richierich
04-07-2006, 06:52 PM
I have been sitting on some of my shares for a few years and not doing any trading... but recently looking at getting into the market... probably aus market though... been looking at cfd's.... will be attending the cmc seminar in chch in july... looks interesting...

port hills
05-07-2006, 04:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by richierich

I have been sitting on some of my shares for a few years and not doing any trading... but recently looking at getting into the market... probably aus market though... been looking at cfd's.... will be attending the cmc seminar in chch in july... looks interesting...



I'm coming along too, may see you there. :)

Crypto Crude
08-02-2007, 11:12 PM
Hey aspex....
thankyou for waking me up to CFD's...
I have known about CFD's for while but your recent post has kicked me into action to do something about it...
Do you or anyone else know if I can trade AED,PPP as a CFD... which are listed on the ASX...
[8D]
.^sc

jke_brown
09-02-2007, 12:23 AM
I used CFD's to trade the currency markets. I find it very convenient as the market is open 24/7.

It is nice to make that couple of hundred dollars extra at night while cooking.

Jackie

Crypto Crude
09-02-2007, 12:57 AM
JB....when I cook it takes up my undivided attention...
initially im only looking at trading CFD's on shares...
and in particular AED.... CFd's should be tradeable on all shares... not just the most liquid ones... and my hunch is that AED will not make the cut to be tradeable as a CFD...
I would appreciate it if anyone could find from there CFD dealer if I could use AED...
thanks....
[8D]
.^sc

Crypto Crude
10-02-2007, 12:43 PM
Just opened an account with CMC....
got some books to read on CFDs over the weekend...
looking at going long AED next week....
[8D]
.^sc

Steve
10-02-2007, 12:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by Shrewd Crude

Just opened an account with CMC....
got some books to read on CFDs over the weekend...
looking at going long AED next week....
[8D]
.^sc

SC, There is a 1-Day seminar by CMC in Christchurch on March 24th, which I will be attending.

I love the internet trading platform. Much better than the days of when I had to phone my futures broker...

Steve

Crypto Crude
11-02-2007, 10:09 PM
Hey steve....
yes I would be really keen to go to that seminar.... can you tell me abit more about it..
is there a cost?
who do I talk to to get a seat?
[8D]
.^sc

Steve
12-02-2007, 06:25 AM
quote:Originally posted by Shrewd Crude

Hey steve....
yes I would be really keen to go to that seminar.... can you tell me abit more about it..
is there a cost?
who do I talk to to get a seat?
[8D]
.^sc

Hi SC

Try this link to CMC Education (http://www.cmcmarkets.co.nz/eng/education/home.jsp). It has the overview, cost and an 0800 no.

As I said, the Christchurch 1-day seminar is on 24th March.

Steve

Steve
13-02-2007, 06:05 AM
Hey SC

Got your private email.

I don't have to pay for the 1-day course as I get it for free as I opened up a CMC account in January, which got me thinking...

As a result of my thinking, here is a link for you if you opened your account in February: February new customer offer (http://www.cmcmarkets.co.nz/eng/cfd/landingpage.jsp) which I am surprised that they didn't tell you about?

As an exclusive CMC Markets offer for the month of February, every new account holder will go in the draw to win their account funded for free (value $1000). Furthermore, there are ten $100 account contributions to be won.

All new CMC Markets clients who sign up in February are also entitled to attend a 1 Day CFD Education Course with materials valued at $450 - FREE.

Steve
13-02-2007, 06:12 AM
Also CMC are running free intro seminars (http://www.cmcmarkets.co.nz/eng/cfd/nz_en_seminars.do)over 1 1/2 hours for those interested in the concept of CFD's.

Crypto Crude
14-02-2007, 11:17 PM
yesterday I went AED long... 2k... opened up a 20k position....:D
big things happening in AED world...
[8D]
.^sc

pickle_master
26-02-2007, 10:33 PM
Hi SC

If you don't mind are you able to see if Aussie uranium stocks such as MTN, SMM etc.. are CFD tradeable?

Thanks
PM

Steve
27-02-2007, 11:42 AM
quote:Originally posted by pickle_master

Hi SC

If you don't mind are you able to see if Aussie uranium stocks such as MTN, SMM etc.. are CFD tradeable?

Thanks
PM


There is a full list published on the CMC Australian website...

pickle_master
27-02-2007, 06:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by Steve
[br

There is a full list published on the CMC Australian website...


Hi Steve,

Sorry I did try looking yesterday but for the life of me I can't find the list [V] Perhaps I am going blind! If you wouldn't mind could you please post the url?
Hope some of you managed to get some SMM CFDs yesterday if they are tradeable!
Cheers,
PM

Crypto Crude
03-03-2007, 04:12 PM
for CMC markets its $42.5 per month to trade auzzie stocks....
If you make 5 trades per month then they will pay the bill....
They do this to encourage you to make lots of trades, the more trades you do then the bigger in favour for the CFD provider....
It encourages profit taking, them swines didnt even tell me about the 42.5bill until after I had set up my account....
[8D]
.^sc

Steve
03-03-2007, 06:25 PM
SC, have you thought about the Christchurch seminar on March 24th?

pickle_master
03-03-2007, 07:12 PM
quote:Originally posted by aspex

pm,
Try http://www.cmcmarkets.co.uk/repository/documents/cmcmarketsuk_cfd_product_list_en_GB.pdf
for a UK list.
If you wish to trade Australian shares you will have to front up with a charge for data from the ASX (they are greedy b******s)unless you do a minimum 10 trades a month, I believe.
The Australian list covers a lot more than the ASX200 - about 370 stocks but almost half are long only.


Thanks aspex

Crypto Crude
05-03-2007, 11:54 AM
steve... rang up this morning and got a free seat....
845am on sat 24th.... see you there...
[8D]
.^sc

Crypto Crude
25-03-2007, 11:37 PM
Steve...
It was real good to have met you at that CFD seminar on Sat...
Thanks for telling me about it... it was well worth it for at least the free lunch and the cool CMC markets pen...
catch yah round...
[8D]
.^sc

Footsie
17-10-2007, 08:56 AM
AA

You need to be aware that CMC to not use DMA (direct market access)

THEREFORE YOU ARE TRADING IN CMC'S ARTIFICIAL MARKET

they 'try' to emulate the physical - but the reality is they trade against their clients


i've been stopped out on index trades so many times its not funny

They rank their clients from A to D
A being the best D the worst
they trade with the A clients and against the D

i could say more but i wont

AMR
17-10-2007, 10:18 AM
Shrewd Crude are you still trading CFDs via CMC, what has been your experience,I like their charting but Im not sure their market maker software is very genuine intraday, im still trading them with sucess but are very warey of allowing them to hit tight intraday stops based on short timeframes, I suspect they muniplate the market temporarily to hit the majority of stops open intra-day, then correct back to point to point by end of day.Also heard the price they quote is different for each individual for the same time period allowing for easy munipulation.Its just a theory, but i think ill switch away from market makers once the ASX CFD platform is available.

Youch! That's freaky! Are you quite sure that's true? If so, I'm changing to IG Markets.

Crypto Crude
17-10-2007, 11:04 AM
AA,
TO be honest I never really used the software, I just rang up on the Phone and placed my order...
had a few problems because I have a mac, so just didnot bother with the tools that CMC provided...
.....
what these CFD providers get up to behind closed doors is speculation, and Ive heard it before...
.....
I only made one CFD trade and it went wrong... and I was real real confident with AED, but the timing was out... I went long with 2k position back when sp was $5 something, this was just prior to the Puffin 8 production well, felt that SP would explode upon results and it did but the drill ended up getting delayed a week and a half, in that time china market fell 10%.... auzzie shares tumbled and my AED position got called...
Ise pretty gutted because I had the right idea and would have held all the way...
...
Ive backed away from CFD's since that experience... loaded up on AED and it backfired... always felt strong about AED but I guess that wasnot enough.... absolutely going to try it out again... just have to be patient...
:cool:
.^sc

stephens.pc
17-10-2007, 12:39 PM
Youch! That's freaky! Are you quite sure that's true? If so, I'm changing to IG Markets.

I don't think IG is any better, i've had some dodgy experiences with them and have heard of others having the same experience.

peat
17-10-2007, 12:42 PM
seems to me that whatever market you trade its possible to independently verify the prices hit during any trading period so if your broker is manipulating the market you would be able to identify it.
Mainly trade forex here but have never seen any significant variation in prices from the Oanda platform that I generally run in conjunction.
The bottom line is that CMC's MarketMaker using CFD's give you a huge array of tradeable stocks/index's/currencies , and access to leverage. So its really up to you whether you can use this to your advantage.

Ricardo
17-10-2007, 03:33 PM
I went to the Brisbane Traders Expo a month or 2 back, and one of the presenters remarked on the market maker CFD providers taking out the stops as one of their regular sports. You have no way of knowing. At least with direct market access you are trading with the physical market depth. Only downside is DMA providers don't normally give a guaranteed stop loss.I
I wondered about A to D clients as mentioned by Footsie, because I was finding response time to orders via the CMC platform was sometimes as bad as 2 - 3 minutes. It should be seconds. I've always been a little uneasy that a market maker actually gains if you loose, since they don't cover in the physical market. Just like when a mate asks you to put a bet on at the TAB, and you put the cash in your pocket and hope the horse looses. Given the stats quoted for the % of traders that win, it should be quite a good little earner.

AMR
05-11-2007, 04:38 PM
Has anyone had experience trading the Hang Seng index? It seems there is not a terrible lot of liquidity in local stocks or the Aussie 200 index.

Edwood
17-07-2016, 08:11 PM
hi there - does anyone have a view on the tax treatment of CFD's in NZ for an NZ resident? I can't find anything on CMC's website (have emailed them a qn), nor IRD's.

Many thanks
Ed

blackcap
17-07-2016, 09:15 PM
hi there - does anyone have a view on the tax treatment of CFD's in NZ for an NZ resident? I can't find anything on CMC's website (have emailed them a qn), nor IRD's.

Many thanks
Ed

CMC would not be in the business of providing tax advice. But I am thinking if you are trading them (which is pretty much what CFD's are used for) then you should be paying tax on any profits (its a taxable activity) and claiming any losses. But your questions is pretty broad and its probably best to get the advice from an accountant.

Edwood
19-07-2016, 11:47 AM
CMC would not be in the business of providing tax advice. But I am thinking if you are trading them (which is pretty much what CFD's are used for) then you should be paying tax on any profits (its a taxable activity) and claiming any losses. But your questions is pretty broad and its probably best to get the advice from an accountant.

Thanks Blackcap - I'll have a chat with my accountant