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rmbbrave
20-09-2006, 09:10 PM
I got this email from ASB Securities today.

Fisher Funds - IPO - Barramundi Ltd

Fisher Funds Management released an announcement on 15 September that Barramundi Ltd is considering making an offer of 50 million shares to the public at $1.00 per share (one warrant will be attached to every 2 shares issued). Barramundi intends to use the proceeds to become a listed investment company investing in smaller, growing Australian companies.

The intended offer will comprise firm allocations to brokers, and a priority pool reserved for existing shareholders and warrant holders in Kingfish Limited. The offer is expected to open during October.

For updates please keep an eye on the Fisher Funds website, www.fisherfunds.co.nz. There is currently no IPO information available, but I would expect this to be updated shortly.

Snow Leopard
20-09-2006, 09:40 PM
You can email (oz@fisherfunds.co.nz) or ring (0508 347437) Fishers to register your interest.

But don't mention that The Paper Tiger sent you, they won't know what you are talking about.

Bling_Bling
21-09-2006, 07:27 AM
What is it? More details pls.

winner69
24-09-2006, 04:50 PM
Could do OK picking a few good small caps on tne ASX .... plenty of opportunities over there

Good opportunity to get some exposure to small caps in ASX if you don't want to do your own homework

rmbbrave
24-09-2006, 05:08 PM
quote:Originally posted by winner69


Good opportunity to get some exposure to small caps in ASX if you don't want to do your own homework




I was thinking the same thing.

Snow Leopard
29-09-2006, 06:05 PM
Prospectus etc now available, talk to your broker

Lizard
29-09-2006, 08:54 PM
$50 million to invest in Aussie small-caps - now that sounds like the perfect job description! They'd have been off to a good start if they'd had the money last week...

rmbbrave
29-09-2006, 09:52 PM
Why buy in the IPO though?

Surely they won't have told anyone (probably don't even know themselves) what stocks they will invest in.

Are there any reasons why the SP will go up opening day?

kura
30-09-2006, 06:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

Why buy in the IPO though?

Surely they won't have told anyone (probably don't even know themselves) what stocks they will invest in.

Are there any reasons why the SP will go up opening day?

Don't KFL trade at a discount to NTA ? (it used to) no reason for this float to be any different, with possible exception that warrants could make up for difference.

BRICKS
30-09-2006, 08:52 AM
SOUNDS like another fish STORY.. [8D]

rmbbrave
01-10-2006, 10:50 AM
Barramundi IPO raised to $100m

Saturday September 30, 2006


Fund manager Fisher Funds will seek to raise up to $100 million in an initial public offering for Barramundi.

Barramundi aims to provide investors with access to a diversified portfolio of smaller, growing Australian companies.

Fisher initially planned to raise $50 million from the public, but said demand from sharebrokers had prompted it to raise that level to $65 million, all of which has been allocated.

Allowance has been made for up to $35 million in oversubscriptions.

Fisher Funds also manages investment company Kingfish, which focuses on smaller local companies.

The offer will open on Monday and close on October 20.

- NZPA

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10403664

winner69
01-10-2006, 12:51 PM
Wonder what the outperformance management fee is in this one ...... Kingfisher ones a quite high

Dilutes returns a lot but can't blame carmel and her friends taking as much as she can from willing punters

Another $100M to manage ..... another few mil to go into the coffers for them .... every year come good or bad

zyreon
01-10-2006, 12:51 PM
if it was 1:1 for the free options i'd be in with borrowed money, but i think i might just sit this one out.

Snow Leopard
01-10-2006, 01:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by winner69

Wonder what the outperformance management fee is in this one ...... Kingfisher ones a quite high

Dilutes returns a lot but can't blame carmel and her friends taking as much as she can from willing punters

Another $100M to manage ..... another few mil to go into the coffers for them .... every year come good or bad





quote:
Management Fee: 1.25% per annum of Gross Asset Value. For any particular financial year, the management fee will be reduced by 0.1% for every 1% underperformance relative to the change in the NZX 90 Day Bank Bill Index (subject to a 0.75% p.a. minimum).

Incentive Fee: The Manager will be paid 15% of excess returns over and above the Benchmark as a Performance Fee. 50% of the Performance Fee will be used to subscribe for new shares in Barramundi.

Benchmark: Changes in the NZX 90 Day Bank Bill Index plus 7% pa. For example, the year to 31 August 2006 the benchmark would have been 14.6% (7.6% plus 7%).


Nice work if you can get it.

shasta
01-10-2006, 01:16 PM
Zyreon - Isn't it a free warrant for each two shares, like the KFL offer?

The performance incentive bonus is set quite high, so that shareholders have materially benefited before they earn anything.

If it's the same structure as Fisher Funds use for KFL, there Management fee is reduced for poor performance, so its quite transparent.

Like GPG & KFL, if they return well above average returns year in year out, they should be rewarded i personally have no issue with this.

Disc: Hold KFL & although ASB offered me an allocation, my funds are required elsewhere.

Will look at in the new year?

Lizard
01-10-2006, 03:34 PM
Might pay to look at Fisher's holdings in their Australian Growth Fund for some thoughts on which ASX shares might have some of that $100m heading their way!

ratkin
01-10-2006, 04:45 PM
Exactly, its not likely to be much different.
That fund performed well for the last twelve months, however conditions unlikely to be so good for the foreseable future.
I would be tempted to forget about warrents and enter at a future
date at a cheaper price

lambton
02-10-2006, 01:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by BRICKS

SOUNDS like another fish STORY.. [8D]



Or a "shark tale" [8D]

Tim
02-10-2006, 03:43 PM
They trade at a discount and that is why you get free options. Like kingfish they get a performance fee if they out perform an index. The index used is the NZX 90 day bank bill index. This is where I totally disagree. The index should be the small companies idex. I will buy options when listed.

kr16
02-10-2006, 05:46 PM
Hi guys i just wanted to know if this share would b a good short term investment ie 1 year or would i need to wait longer to c any real returns?

shasta
02-10-2006, 06:04 PM
Kr16

This kind of "Managed Fund" is probably better left as a long term investment, as this is the same time frame Fisher Funds will use in selecting stocks.

They only tend to sell out when the companies they invest in fundamentally change.

For those that like companies that offer shares in lieu of dividends (DRP's) you can accumulate extra shares & put this investment in the bottom draw.

If you are new(ish) to investing it will provide you with an exposure to ASX companies outside the top 100, without having to do the research yourself.

I rate Fisher Funds as a Fund Manager & have shares in KFL.

Have a look at the Fisher Fund website & check out there past performance. ;)

http://www.fisherfunds.co.nz

The BOWMAN
02-10-2006, 09:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by shasta

Kr16

This kind of "Managed Fund" is probably better left as a long term investment, as this is the same time frame Fisher Funds will use in selecting stocks.

They only tend to sell out when the companies they invest in fundamentally change.

For those that like companies that offer shares in lieu of dividends (DRP's) you can accumulate extra shares & put this investment in the bottom draw.

If you are new(ish) to investing it will provide you with an exposure to ASX companies outside the top 100, without having to do the research yourself.

I rate Fisher Funds as a Fund Manager & have shares in KFL.

Have a look at the Fisher Fund website & check out there past performance. ;)

http://www.fisherfunds.co.nz


Just had a quick look, "An investor who put $10,000 with Carmel in 1991 would now have an investment worth more than $76,000." And I am UNIMPRESSED.

lambton
03-10-2006, 08:02 AM
quote:Originally posted by kr16

Hi guys i just wanted to know if this share would b a good short term investment ie 1 year or would i need to wait longer to c any real returns?


These guys are pump and dump which has worked quite well for them in a tiny illiquid NZ market. Chase them into Australia at your peril. Much smarter sharks over there who will eat them alive.

warthog
03-10-2006, 08:09 AM
quote:Originally posted by The BOWMAN


quote:Originally posted by shasta

Kr16

This kind of "Managed Fund" is probably better left as a long term investment, as this is the same time frame Fisher Funds will use in selecting stocks.

They only tend to sell out when the companies they invest in fundamentally change.

For those that like companies that offer shares in lieu of dividends (DRP's) you can accumulate extra shares & put this investment in the bottom draw.

If you are new(ish) to investing it will provide you with an exposure to ASX companies outside the top 100, without having to do the research yourself.

I rate Fisher Funds as a Fund Manager & have shares in KFL.

Have a look at the Fisher Fund website & check out there past performance. ;)

http://www.fisherfunds.co.nz


Just had a quick look, "An investor who put $10,000 with Carmel in 1991 would now have an investment worth more than $76,000." And I am UNIMPRESSED.


15% per year compounding isn't too bad*. If the investor was American, the forex gain would boost that to just under 16% . Not too shabby if you're used to single-digit interest - before tax - from the bank.

Shasta holds KFL, so there's some walk to go with the talk.

*GPG would have done better ;)
disc: GPG

Tim
03-10-2006, 04:12 PM
Who are operators of similar funds in aussie?

Placebo
04-10-2006, 03:51 PM
Here we have a new IPO where one of the lead brokers is ForBarr, one of the lead brokers in the Feltex IPO.

Dunno about you but that makes me somewhat suspicious...

Disc: Forbarr are my brokers [:0]

rmbbrave
04-10-2006, 11:41 PM
I'm not buying into this one.

I reckon it will go nowhere in the first week - maybe even down a smidgeon.

Augustus
05-10-2006, 08:31 AM
quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

I'm not buying into this one.

I reckon it will go nowhere in the first week - maybe even down a smidgeon.
You could be right, especially if commodities (& ASX)continue to slide over the next few weeks. For anyone wanting a safer longer term investment I'd rate Barramundi as an excellent buy. One of my investments is an ING managed fund in Australian funds - has performed beautifully over 4 years and I'd pick Barramundi to perform similarly or maybe even better.

lambton
05-10-2006, 09:58 AM
quote:Originally posted by Augustus


quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

I'm not buying into this one.

I reckon it will go nowhere in the first week - maybe even down a smidgeon.
You could be right, especially if commodities (& ASX)continue to slide over the next few weeks. For anyone wanting a safer longer term investment I'd rate Barramundi as an excellent buy. One of my investments is an ING managed fund in Australian funds - has performed beautifully over 4 years and I'd pick Barramundi to perform similarly or maybe even better.


Even a monkey could have done well out of the Aussie market past 4 years. Dangerous to extrapolate past performance to a new entrant's future performance.
Remember C's way is pump and dump which works best in a bull run.

KJ
05-10-2006, 11:21 AM
Yes-but have done well in the Fisher Australian Growth Fund (small coys)-25.6% return over last 12 mths which seems impressive.

lambton
05-10-2006, 02:48 PM
quote:Originally posted by KJ

Yes-but have done well in the Fisher Australian Growth Fund (small coys)-25.6% return over last 12 mths which seems impressive.



And I'm sure all the monkeys that played the A market last year did ok as well. That is my point, investing with a rear vision mirror can be a dangerous. Following C F into Australia more so IMHO.

Snow Leopard
05-10-2006, 03:02 PM
lambton: you seem to be a bit negative on Carmel and her merry men. Would you care to expand on the reasons for your stance?

Disc: This Tiger is only interested in this one because some one, falsely, told your truly that a Barramundi was a type of Tuna*


*Go read the original Calvin and Hobbes if you are scratching your head, you will not regret it.
I will not purrsonly be investing

ratkin
05-10-2006, 03:47 PM
They have timed it well, their past results will dazzle the newbies, however it going to be much harder to recreate such good results in the current climate.

MPC
05-10-2006, 07:12 PM
I actually think they will do well. It will interesting to see what they invest in and how ir goes now thimgs aren't flying as much as they were/

Lawso
06-10-2006, 08:54 AM
quote: originally posted by ratkin
. . . it's going to be much harder to recreate such good results in the current climate.
What's "the current climate", ratkin? Sure Oz minerals have had a bad time, but Oil is still coming down, the Dow is at record levels and ASX keeps powering ahead. Still a good time for Carmel in Oz, I would have thought.

777
06-10-2006, 08:58 AM
If they can get the currency across at current rates then there is likely to be a 8-15% one off gain in the short term.

KJ
06-10-2006, 11:50 AM
Thought that I read the other day that the Aussi economy was the strongest that it had been in the last 30 yrs.

KJ
06-10-2006, 11:53 AM
quote:Originally posted by lambton


quote:Originally posted by KJ

Yes-but have done well in the Fisher Australian Growth Fund (small coys)-25.6% return over last 12 mths which seems impressive.



And I'm sure all the monkeys that played the A market last year did ok as well. That is my point, investing with a rear vision mirror can be a dangerous. Following C F into Australia more so IMHO.


Lambton-I am thinking of investing so would appreciate it if you could give reasons for your comments.I had thought that Fisher Funds had been successful from what I have read.

ratkin
07-10-2006, 01:12 PM
What price are the warrents likely to trade at in the week or two after listing?

lambton
08-10-2006, 12:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by Paper Tiger

lambton: you seem to be a bit negative on Carmel and her merry men. Would you care to expand on the reasons for your stance?

Disc: This Tiger is only interested in this one because some one, falsely, told your truly that a Barramundi was a type of Tuna*


*Go read the original Calvin and Hobbes if you are scratching your head, you will not regret it.
I will not purrsonly be investing



U need to go back to the Prudential Emerging Markets fund - later called the submerging fund to see why I have reservations about C's style. Fortex (he he not Feltex) was one of the stars I think. Long time ago may be wrong.

Ptolemy
10-10-2006, 02:32 PM
I ordered a prospectus and have read it to assess whether it would be worthwhile. I think it all depends on individuals portfolio composition and willingness to do there own research as to whether this is a good fund to invest in or not. I came to the conclusion that for me that I would be better off with an international share fund (eg Hunter Hall). The Australian market is very accessible for most NZ investors and I have quite a bit of exposure to it through direct share investment whereas international markets I have less exposure. I thought the fees seemed a little on the high side compared with other similar funds.

ratkin
10-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Have requested 5000 for the boy, chances are they will be cheaper
at some point , however he is only seven years old so im not about to quibble over a few cents now. Its what they are worth in ten years time that counts

COLIN
14-10-2006, 10:22 PM
Am still mulling over this one. I accept that the head shares will probably be obtainable down the track at below issue price, but don't overlook the fact that the "free" 1:2 options will immediately attract a price.

ratkin
20-10-2006, 02:12 PM
Have just spoken to somebody at ASB apparantly there was very heavy activity in this float, it closes today and they have been inundated with applications, some are going to miss out apparantly, they sorting through them on a first in basis

shasta
20-10-2006, 02:19 PM
Colin

Very worthwhile getting in & grabbing the heads & warrants upfront, this will run just like KFL & i will personally buy in as funds allow.

KFL are buying back there warrants at present & any excessive discount to NAV for Barramundi will trigger the same IMO.

I like 4 Aussie stocks in particular at the moment & i'm interested to see who they buy into before buying in.

Bling_Bling
21-10-2006, 08:09 AM
Why dont you just buy the aussie stocks yourself? Dont need a fund to buy on your behalf and charge you fees.

COLIN
21-10-2006, 09:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling

Why dont you just buy the aussie stocks yourself? Dont need a fund to buy on your behalf and charge you fees.

Bling, I've attempted to follow such a strategy with KFL/ Fisher Funds, to a limited extent, but the problem is that by the time you learn what coy they have added, the price has already escalated (being small-cap stocks), and vice versa when they dump shares. I don't see them signalling in advance what their particular target coys are going to be.
Carmel gets relatively large chunks of the Cullen Fund to invest in NZ small-caps, which can push the price around. I wonder whether she will get an allocation for Aust too.

craic
21-10-2006, 10:09 PM
All my friends whgo know s hit all about investment have been convinced that this stock is a good investment. Thje publicity has been out of this world. I would love to be able to see twelve months down the road, but I, like others, see no point in paying someone to do what I can do myself.

Tim
22-10-2006, 07:29 AM
This must not be the only fund in this area. I am sure there are many in aussi that specialise in this area and have all the local knowledge.

skinny
22-10-2006, 04:59 PM
I decided against investing in this one for the simple reason that the investment approach relies heavily good old fashioned scuttlebutt - something that will be difficult to do (or at least relatively expensive) for Carmel and her team being based in Auckland.

MPC
22-10-2006, 06:04 PM
I must be too young to understand what Scuttlebutt is.

COLIN
22-10-2006, 10:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by skinny

I decided against investing in this one for the simple reason that the investment approach relies heavily good old fashioned scuttlebutt - something that will be difficult to do (or at least relatively expensive) for Carmel and her team being based in Auckland.

Don't overlook the fact that Carmel is already there, with her Australian Growth Fund - which hasn't exactly been a failure!

rmbbrave
22-10-2006, 10:10 PM
Fisher suggests the "scuttlebutt" method. This involves talking to suppliers, customers, company employees, and people knowledgeable in the industry, and, eventually, company management. From this information, an investor can get a good feel for the quality of the company as a growth investment. Fisher teaches us how to learn to ask the correct, company-specific questions.

Fisher acknowledges the "scuttlebutt" method is a lot of work. But, he asks, should it be easy to find such great companies, when finding only a few can easily lay the foundation for building huge future wealth?

I tend to think the average individual investor will not use the "scuttlebutt" method. And, for most investors and most companies, even if the investor had the desire to use this method, it would not be practical.

Yet, for investors seeking to make investments in smaller, local companies, the "scuttlebutt" method might be of value. For angel investors or mini-venture capitalists, reading "Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits" is probably also worthwhile.

http://www.amazon.com/Common-Stocks-Uncommon-Profits-Writings/dp/0471445509

Romer
23-10-2006, 07:47 AM
rmb: I think you mean "she"

[8)]

warthog
23-10-2006, 08:20 AM
quote:Originally posted by Romer

rmb: I think you mean "she"
[8)]


Philip Fisher sounds like a "he" to the hog.

Bling_Bling
23-10-2006, 08:27 AM
quote:Originally posted by COLIN


quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling

Why dont you just buy the aussie stocks yourself? Dont need a fund to buy on your behalf and charge you fees.

Bling, I've attempted to follow such a strategy with KFL/ Fisher Funds, to a limited extent, but the problem is that by the time you learn what coy they have added, the price has already escalated (being small-cap stocks), and vice versa when they dump shares. I don't see them signalling in advance what their particular target coys are going to be.
Carmel gets relatively large chunks of the Cullen Fund to invest in NZ small-caps, which can push the price around. I wonder whether she will get an allocation for Aust too.


I dont mean you have to follow what Fisher Fund buys and sells. Just do your own homework and get good research from reputable investment houses. I collect all the data myself and put them together and make my own decisions.

Romer
23-10-2006, 08:43 AM
Oh. I thought we were talking about Carmel. [8)]

shasta
23-10-2006, 08:53 AM
Remember that Fisher Funds puts alot of weight on the ability of the management of the companies they buy into, not dissimiliar to Warren Buffets style of investing.

They were again fund manager of the year & have shown over & over they get it right more often than others, for this reason alone i believe they would do better than most DIY stock pickers over time.

Romer
23-10-2006, 09:12 AM
Anyway. More to the point now. When does it list and what's the code?
[8)]

shasta
23-10-2006, 10:32 AM
http://www.barramundi.co.nz/barramundi-prospectus.pdf

Accordingly to the prospectus the shares are allotted on 25th Oct & lists on the NZX on 26th Oct being this thursday.

May be delayed til early November due to the over subscription & possible scale backs etc

Would guess the ticker code would be BAR?

shasta
23-10-2006, 10:34 AM
http://www.nzx.com/market/price_by_stock/security_search?svals=bar&mode=startswith&by=code&type=all

I stand corrected it's BRM

Romer
23-10-2006, 10:40 AM
What an obvious place to look! I must remember that.
[8)]

shasta
23-10-2006, 11:05 AM
No worries Romer - if they have issued a prospectus it will either be available on the exchange(s) they intend to list on or else you can get it from the companies office!

gamerice
25-10-2006, 03:53 PM
I got some allocation, looking forward to the listing tommorow!

ratkin
25-10-2006, 04:23 PM
Did they write to you or did you phone them?
I have not heard anything from ASB although the money has gone from cash management account

ratkin
25-10-2006, 04:39 PM
26 million oversubscribed, price should hold up well when lists

Lawso
25-10-2006, 08:32 PM
quote:I have not heard anything from ASB although the money has gone from cash management account
Me too. Wonder when we'll hear.

djones
26-10-2006, 06:54 AM
Quotation and trading of the shares and warrants on the NZSX is expected to commence at 11.00am on Thursday 26th October. Shares will trade under the symbol "BRM" and warrants under the symbol "BRMWA".

Lawso
26-10-2006, 08:14 AM
I'm told the share registry is sending out statements of holdings by today at the latest.

777
26-10-2006, 08:17 AM
In which case you should be able to verify your holding by accessing the Registry via the NZX page.

www.nzx.com

gamerice
26-10-2006, 09:30 AM
quote:Originally posted by gamerice

I got some allocation, looking forward to the listing tommorow!


For thos who have put forward a subscription for this share, go to:
https://www-au.computershare.com/investor/default.asp?cc=nz&lang=en&bhjs=1&fla=1&theme=cpu

to check your holdings.
I have been allocated the full subscription amount, and my application was posted on the 4th of October.

djones
26-10-2006, 09:37 AM
Is anyone on here going to put up a sell at 11am to take the quick profit?

whatsup
26-10-2006, 10:58 AM
.99!!

djones
26-10-2006, 11:19 AM
Can someone please explain to me why someone would sell 50,000 shares for less than what they paid for them?

99 50,000

rmbbrave
26-10-2006, 11:19 AM
quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

I'm not buying into this one.

I reckon it will go nowhere in the first week - maybe even down a smidgeon.


Trading at 99 cents, down 1 on opening day.

rmbbrave
26-10-2006, 11:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by djones

Can someone please explain to me why someone would sell 50,000 shares for less than what they paid for them?

99 50,000


Because "someone" bought hoping for a quick profit but when that didn't happen (as I said it wouldn't) they dedided to take a small loss $500 before the SP hits 95 cents.

rmbbrave
26-10-2006, 11:27 AM
What does BRM have in the way of assets?

They have $100 million in the bank earning about 7.5%

And they have an idea - invest in aussie small caps - not very original and therefore not worth much.

That's why the company is worth a little less than 100 million.

Not until BRM start buying shares and punters start saying "that was a good share to buy - why didn't I think of that" will the value of BRM go over 100 milion again.

whatsup
26-10-2006, 11:42 AM
djones dont forget that that "seller" still has the options and so are still ahead financially,then again the seller may have just wanted the options that the gearing gives ,horses for cources.

777
26-10-2006, 11:47 AM
djones.. the seller has effectively got all the options that were issued for $500. That may have been the intention in the first place. Mind you he/she may have also sold the same options today at current price of 16-17c. If so, then an acceptable return.

PS It wasn't me.

Whatsup has beaten me to it.

ratkin
26-10-2006, 12:29 PM
Well the warrants are trading at around 18c so the real value price for those in the float is 1.09 a share.

So anyone selling their warrants and their shares at .99 makes 8c a share profit.

Hardly worth it i agree, the price now is of little importance really, it the price in a few years time that matters.

When and what will be their first investment , any educated guesses?

Futurz
26-10-2006, 03:28 PM
I don't know...10%+ profit on day one seems ok to me.

Better than ~ 7.50% over a whole year in the bank!

ratkin
26-10-2006, 04:29 PM
True enough i suppose

50000 bought at 1dollar = 50000

50000 sold at .99= 49500
25000 wa at .18= 4500

-60 brokerage = profit of 3940

Agreed very good for days work. Damn , should of boiught more lol

suppose there was some risk involved , but not much really

777
26-10-2006, 04:36 PM
So now that BRM are listed, why would you buy them at the current price when you can get OZY below NTA or AFI which has been around for nearly 70 yrs. Sure one is a passive fund and the other a very conservative active one, but they do have a track record.

Futurz
26-10-2006, 05:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by 777

So now that BRM are listed, why would you buy them at the current price when you can get OZY below NTA or AFI which has been around for nearly 70 yrs. Sure one is a passive fund and the other a very conservative active one, but they do have a track record.


Well for a start OZY tracks the top 20 ASX listed stocks.

Where as BRM is targeting smaller mid-caps with more scope for growth.

777
26-10-2006, 05:32 PM
Futurz.. yes I agree, but the point is "at the current price". I would probably buy into BRM at 90c but not at a premium which I am sure they are at present. There are a lot of set up costs to be covered before any real money is to be made.

Rif-Raf
26-10-2006, 09:06 PM
so Fishers are gurus at investing in ozzie but no nothing about investing in NZ.

If I was a holder I'd take your tidy gain and switch into KFL.

It seems totally irrational that BRM (with no proven track record in it's chosen market) trades at a premiumn to NTA, yet KFL (a proven performer in its market)trades at a sizeable discount around $1.30 v diluted NTA of $1.43, or is everyone more optimistic about the west island.

biker
26-10-2006, 09:17 PM
More oportunity in Aust, much better liquidity and what should be a very profitable currency play over the next 12 to 18 months.

oscar74
27-10-2006, 01:03 PM
good call biker.

ratkin
27-10-2006, 08:43 PM
When i went to the share registry to check my holding there was still no sign of it.
Any of you other holders not had it processed yet?

https://www-au.computershare.com/investor/default.asp?cc=nz&lang=en&bhjs=1&fla=1&theme=cpu

Ttops
27-10-2006, 08:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rif-Raf

so Fishers are gurus at investing in ozzie but no nothing about investing in NZ.

If I was a holder I'd take your tidy gain and switch into KFL.

It seems totally irrational that BRM (with no proven track record in it's chosen market) trades at a premiumn to NTA, yet KFL (a proven performer in its market)trades at a sizeable discount around $1.30 v diluted NTA of $1.43, or is everyone more optimistic about the west island.


I agree with your sentiment. The excess demand $26M is surely causing the current premium and when it is satiated the sp will settle back to a discount. KFL was at 94c for the headshare and 14c for the 1:1 warrants for up to 18mths while the NTA grew. Right now it makes sense to wait and see if Carmel and co are as good in Oz and for the demand to fall. Lately the FF OZ share has been level pegging so there is no current uptrend. Perhaps a lot of KFL investors are diversifying into Oz hoping for the currency gain when it finally comes. It may take a while imo and be cancelled out by the fall in sp to a natural disc. as with KFL

Tt
Discl: Own KFL ,no BRM. BRM on watchlist

shasta
27-10-2006, 10:20 PM
Thought i might see you in here Treetops!

Agree, BRM needs some "runs on the board" before seriously looking at, the free warrants would have made it worthwhile to have from the start, but like KFL you will be able to buy the heads cheaper down the track IMO.

Warrants would still offer good exposure, but for now i'm only watching BRM & will be for a while.

Disc: Hold KFL

ratkin
30-10-2006, 10:33 AM
Dont know why i bothered

Apparantly i dont have any shares, even though share registry told me friday that i did.
They now say my money will be refunded, when i asked when, she was very vague and said "in a few days"

Disgraceful, it not good enough in my opinion

Lawso
31-10-2006, 07:07 PM
quote: posted by me
Posted - 26/10/2006 : 09:14:20 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm told the share registry is sending out statements of holdings by today at the latest.

I'm still waiting. Phoned Registry again today. They said the statements were being mailed today!
Pretty slack IMO.

Scrunch
31-10-2006, 09:14 PM
I find it interesting that this one has followed a similar listing trend to KIN. By the end of April04 KIN was at 93, with the warrents at 16c creating a total price of 109, against a NTA of 98.

For the first year the combined KIN price stayed above NTA. The scarcely believable peak was in Jan05 when the raw NTA was 126 and diluted NTA was 113. Shares at 122 and warrents at 35 created a combined price of 157 or 24% over NTA.

Since this point NTA has risen significantly but the premium to diluted NTA has disappeared (by one year after listing). It will be interesting to see if the combined BRM value stays above NTA for the next year.

After the first year of KIN having been listed, the novelty appears to have disappeared and the combined value remained under NTA usually in the mid - high 80% area, similar to a lot of listed trusts.

Unlike normal warrents, these ones have a material dilution effect therefore they influence the returns on the head shares. If underlying NTA increases from $1 to $1.30 the warrents are in the money. When exercised the number of shares increased by 50% so the 30c gain is now split among a more shares reducing NTA to 1.20

As they start reporting the diluted NTA and the warrents get closer to expiry I believe that investors become familiar with this effect hence the premium disappearing. So much for the efficient markets hypothesis :D

Anyway after all the rambling above, if BRM follows the trends of KIN then it might take 6mths+ before the good buying opportunities appear.

tigger
03-11-2006, 10:23 AM
I think this whole allocation of shares has been an absolute shambles. No communication from either ASB or Computer Share registry. On phoning ASB again they are now able to tell me that no I did not get shares even tho cheque banked ages ago still waiting for cheque back. I am told the cheques are in the mail. Surely there must be a better system than this - is it ASB that are at fault or are others having problems who went through another party to purchase. Which would indicate that the problem is with the share registry.

ratkin
03-11-2006, 11:11 AM
I was told my cheque was sent on tuesday. Im still waiting.

The woman at the share registry was rude last time i phoned.

Last week i was told i had the shares, then that i didnt and the money would be returned to my cash management account.
When it wasnt i rang back and was told they ha sent a cheque.

Last time i bother with this sort of crap

ratkin
03-11-2006, 11:12 AM
I dont know who to blame, but i thought i ha a firm allocation from ASB apparantly i didnt. Im leaning towards blaming the share registry for being terribly slow, depriving me of interest and not keeping informed

mrbunnynz
03-11-2006, 01:57 PM
I went through ASB and had similar problems. After 4 phone calls to both ASB and Computershare, I have finally got a cheque today with my money back, but I'm pretty pissed that it took so long.
They took the money from my account with a direct debit about two weeks ago and to not even bother to credit it directly back to my account, but instead just return a cheque with no interest or apology seems very poor practice to me

tigger
03-11-2006, 02:08 PM
Its interesting that the problems have been with ASB and computer share. I am still curious if any one else has had a problem using another broker. It does put you off doing this process again. Surely there is a better system. I feel that ASB could have sent a letter out to those that missed out on the first allocation and told them that they were now in the public float allocation through computer share. Communciation would be the key to customer service or is that a thing of the past!

ratkin
03-11-2006, 02:22 PM
Same mrbunnyman, it eventually arrived today after supposedly being posted on tuesday morning.
I had assumed they would of just transfered money back to cash managment account.

Is it an organised attempt to gain as much interest as possible from us suckers?

croesus
03-11-2006, 02:36 PM
Banks..... the original fair weather friends....

Lawso
03-11-2006, 03:12 PM
Bad luck, guys. I don't know what I did right or wrong but - eventually - I got confirmation of my promised allocation through ASB - and ASB is not even my main broker. So I'm already sitting on a nice profit and am thinking of cashing in on the warrants.

ratkin
03-11-2006, 04:19 PM
And another thing that peeves me off is that people who wanted them for the longterm miss out, meanwhile millions of them being traded within minutes of them listing.

The brokers get them all , then get our money (interest) then sell them at a profit back to us while we have to give them more profits by paying brokerage.

Whole system is corrupt. They should ban people selling these things for a fixed period after listing , maybe then they might end up in the right hands

redzone
03-11-2006, 04:21 PM
Are you saying we should get Helen etc to stop trading like concert tickets etc

gamerice
03-11-2006, 05:31 PM
those of you that missed out on the allocation,
when did you send in your application?

pierre
03-11-2006, 05:40 PM
I received notice of the opportunity to participate in the oversubscription through the National Bank share trading website. They direct debited my account one day and I had the allocation of shares and warrants the next.

Very tidy and no drama - and so far at least - I am very happy with the outcome.

mrbunnynz
03-11-2006, 08:22 PM
gamerice - I sent my application in only a few days before the close date, so I'm not too surprised I didn't receive an allocation. What I was surprised at was the attempts to stall and avoid giving me my money back for as long as possable

gamerice
03-11-2006, 08:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by mrbunnynz

gamerice - I sent my application in only a few days before the close date, so I'm not too surprised I didn't receive an allocation. What I was surprised at was the attempts to stall and avoid giving me my money back for as long as possable


If my memory serves me correct, i believe the refund cheque from the over-subscribed Vector IPO took nearly two weeks to reach my mailbox.

Now i am not suggesting that this should be the standard of how they operate, however, as a small, private investor, there's just not much you can do.

Bobby_Fischer
13-11-2006, 02:08 PM
Managed to get a few of these in the IPO. On last sale price, one share plus 1/2 a warrant is worth 1.245. A 24.5% gain on IPO. Predicated on what exactly? They haven't invested in anything yet have they, and have 98.1 cents per share (+ 1/2 warrant) in the bank. Must be doing Carmel's ego some good, I reckon.

Have to say it's proving pretty difficult to resist the temptation to take the money and run.

777
13-11-2006, 02:45 PM
They only have the 98.1c per share in the bank. There is no value to the warrant to them at this point. They never received any money for issuing them, just the 1.00 per share.

patsy
13-11-2006, 03:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by Bobby_Fischer

A 24.5% gain on IPO. Predicated on what exactly? They haven't invested in anything yet.


If this is true, then the market is very irrational given that KFL is trading at a discount. It seems that the market is inconsistent in attributing value to the management company.

ratkin
13-11-2006, 03:57 PM
No doubt they have been buying but are yet to trigger the 5% on anything. Strange the sp keeps going up, maybe some people know more than us.

Im wondering if they may have bought into IBA in the last few days, was a massive clearout last few days, may be too high tech for fisher, although they went for Rakon

croesus
13-11-2006, 04:04 PM
If not them, and probably not.. could be a bit spec for Barramundi.. I wonder who has been buying all those IBA, up 4c on good turnover today

ratkin
13-11-2006, 04:10 PM
yep, sellers have been cleaned out now. Should be upward and onward for IBA
They not really that speccy though, may not be boring enough for fisher though. They have probably found a retirement home to invest in !!

Footsie
13-11-2006, 08:37 PM
IBA is a great story... MBL have a few screws loose i think selling at this early stage

Ttops
16-11-2006, 04:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by Bobby_Fischer

Managed to get a few of these in the IPO. On last sale price, one share plus 1/2 a warrant is worth 1.245. A 24.5% gain on IPO. Predicated on what exactly? They haven't invested in anything yet have they, and have 98.1 cents per share (+ 1/2 warrant) in the bank. Must be doing Carmel's ego some good, I reckon.

Have to say it's proving pretty difficult to resist the temptation to take the money and run.

Hi BF
98.6 cents excluding performance fees now. 99 cents diluted of course. ;) Sp is oscillating wildly but a few intelligent punters have taken your advice. Wildly optimistic are the warrant holders buying at present imo. Still no idea what she has bought? KFL had a similar peak of suicidal buying which quickly subsided early on. Take your own advice and take the money and run for now.
TT

COLIN
24-11-2006, 08:10 PM
I can't believe the irrational exuberance being displayed on this one, so I have done the sensible thing and sold both my BRMs and my BRMWAs. The premium to NAV (taking heads plus options)is totally unsupportable, given that they haven't yet even recouped the issue costs. Who is leading these investors by the nose? I have every faith that Carmel and her merry men will do well - for themselves and investors - with this venture in Australia, but why should the BRM package sell at a significant premium when the KFL package sells at a significant discount? People will say that BRM provides potential for forex gains when the NZD does eventually settle down to more realistic levels against the AUD, but there are plenty of other ways of positioning for that gain without paying an outrageous price for shares or warrants in an investment company. If BRM were planning a portfolio of speculative investments - in oilers or biotechs or whatever - there might be some justification for a 30% premium, but I see nothing in the prospectus that would lead me to believe that that is what they are planning. I suspect that the BRM portfolio will turn out to be similar to their existing Kingfish Aussie Growth Fund.
I bought KFL at a satisfactory price after all the hype had cleared away, and I can see myself getting back into BRM some day on the same basis. Meantime, I am happy to pass the baton to someone who thinks they can find someone who is even more stupid, in due course!

Ttops
25-11-2006, 09:39 AM
[quote]Originally posted by COLIN

I can't believe the irrational exuberance being displayed on this one, so I have done the sensible thing and sold both my BRMs and my BRMWAs. The premium to NAV (taking heads plus options)is totally unsupportable, given that they haven't yet even recouped the issue costs. [quote]


Hi Colin
I wonder when we will get an indication of how much Carmel has bought and exactly what the securities are. Until then I guess the majority of shareholders who got BRM were KFL holders like yourself so are happy to wait and trust. I have heard of many who missed out and perhaps it is simply their frustration at the lack of sellers that causes the sp to climb irrationally? Who knows. Congrats on a rational decision Colin and a handsome profit which has been a bit of good luck. [^] I wish I could have predicted this but how can you predict irrationality? :(
TT

ratkin
15-01-2007, 11:58 AM
See their three main holdings are

Arrow Energy (increase in value since purchase 28%)
- Credit Corp Group
- Vision Group Holdings

Pleased i didnt get any now as Vision group already a large part of my portfolio so would of been doubling up.

Interesting that ther holding of arrow energy has risen 28% yet their nav is still only 0.99

gisborne_gold
15-01-2007, 01:24 PM
I still don't understand why BRM would be trading above asset value. Kingfish trades below, as do most other funds it seems. Supply and demand, yes I know, maybe they've tapped into an under-supplied demand amongst kiwi punters for easy access to Australian stocks. But the premium being paid seems extraordinary.

ratkin
15-01-2007, 01:29 PM
As the shares are to be held for years it would be much cheaper to buy the stocks individually. Only cost being brokerage.
If you hold barra for five years then the fees would really add up

COLIN
15-01-2007, 03:48 PM
quote:Originally posted by gisborne_gold

I still don't understand why BRM would be trading above asset value. Kingfish trades below, as do most other funds it seems. Supply and demand, yes I know, maybe they've tapped into an under-supplied demand amongst kiwi punters for easy access to Australian stocks. But the premium being paid seems extraordinary.


I share your puzzlement, as per my posting of 24/11/2006. I do have a certain amount of admiration for the ability of Carmel and her team, and may be tempted to buy back in again, once (if) the price slips below NAV, but certainly not before then. There are better ways of hedging into the Aust. dollar.

gisborne_gold
16-01-2007, 10:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by COLIN
I do have a certain amount of admiration for the ability of Carmel and her team, and may be tempted to buy back in again, once (if) the price slips below NAV, but certainly not before then.

Agreed on both those points.

winner69
04-02-2007, 01:46 PM
See Fisher has taken 5% of CCP and still the shareprice continues to climb .... and amother of my favs at the mo is TRS and Fisher have this in their Aust Equity Fund as well

are CCP and TRS being bought for the Barramundi Fund as well

living2
05-02-2007, 10:38 PM
TRS on the NZX do you mean??

COLIN
05-02-2007, 11:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by living2

TRS on the NZX do you mean??

I'm sure he/she means The Reject Shop on the ASX.

Footsie
06-02-2007, 11:05 AM
anyone buying BRM is mad

FIsher doesnt deserve that kind of premium

why not buy AGF,....... its the first "fund" investing in China A shares.... and its premium is the same as fisher... 10 odd %

or why not save yourself all the fees and just buy the stocks BRM hold.... and time your entries to get an even better return:D

777
21-03-2007, 04:16 PM
At current close the premium has gone.

biker
21-03-2007, 04:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by 777

At current close the premium has gone.

Does that mean you're buying 777?

777
21-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Not yet but price is now more realistic. A discount may develop if the trend continues although probably not as great as the KFL discount.

Ttops
21-03-2007, 05:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by 777

Not yet but price is now more realistic. A discount may develop if the trend continues although probably not as great as the KFL discount.

Why not as great? Exchange rate may not change for ages so better be a holder. Unproven in Aus? Made 3%increase in NAV in 5 months. BRM will go below $1 soon and start a death rattle among the edgy holders when bad overseas news arrives. Buy in the high 80's.

KFL is still a better bet at present when it is oversold.

Flying Goat
21-03-2007, 06:13 PM
BRM bought a decent stake in VGH as one of their first purchases since launching the Barramundi, which has subsequently nose-dived. Although I admire this team based on their NZX merits over the last five years I must say I have no idea what possessed them to go buying into a business (VGH) with over 180 million in debt and nothing on the balance sheet at a price earnings multiple above 24, that looked to me likely a highly amateur move at the time and is turning out to be the case... the lesson I guess is that no matter how long you've been in the game you never can be too careful!

Ttops
21-03-2007, 08:10 PM
Is it the same team? Aussie in charge of buying for BRM?

KFL +KFLWA =1.49+49 =1.98 Nav 2.14
BRM +BRMWA =1.04+25.5 =1.295 Nav 1.05

BRM or BRMWA seriously overpriced? Which is it?

Ttops
31-05-2007, 04:13 PM
Finally bought BRM at 1.13 and BRMWA at 34.5c! Seems high but so did KFLWA once.
The rate of dil NAV increase is accelerating due to AOE so it was time. Finally at a disc to dil NAV imo at 1.137 and bought twice as many warrants given they have a while to run. Finally can see what shares she is in how well they were doing. BVA looks a loser though.

Disc: KFL & KFLWA GPG CEN TPW WDT SCT AIA ABA SLG SKC FPH, now BRM and BRMWA
AVE on ASX

lakeside
01-06-2007, 09:41 AM
I think the premium is for exposure to the Aussie dollar which Kiwi investors like. Not counted in the $50 000 overseas limit.

How will it go for taxes - I don't think it will be a PIE but won't need to pay on capital gains?

gisborne_gold
01-06-2007, 10:40 AM
Good on you for backing BRM. The Fisher Funds Australian Growth Fund unit trust, formerly Coronet, has performed extremely well over the last couple of years, and one would imagine the same expertise would be being applied to Barramundi.

But it still seems to be at an unjustified premium to diluted NAV per share; $1.14 vs $1.12 NAV? Especially when other listed investment funds continue to trade at discounts to NAV.

Ttops
01-06-2007, 11:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by lakeside

I think the premium is for exposure to the Aussie dollar which Kiwi investors like. Not counted in the $50 000 overseas limit.

How will it go for taxes - I don't think it will be a PIE but won't need to pay on capital gains?


Lakeside
The currency is "predicted"(BNZ) to fall to around 78c to the Aus over two years but for me I like her style of investing having watched it for a while now in KFL. Just had to see that it worked in Aus as well. I still have 5:1 KFL: BRM I can see that the Carmel factor plus the Kiwisaver boom to come plus the 50K limit explains the premium imo G_Gold. Took me some time to get used to that premium. Buy on any dips into disc imo. Good buying today on the warrants as holiday weekend sellers.

Lawso
03-06-2007, 04:05 PM
I could never see the sense in putting money into managed funds, when you can pick and choose and invest directly without paying all that commission etc. But in the last couple of weeks I've bought Barramundi shares direct and also invested in FF Aust Growth Fund, because I respect their judgment and recognise their outstanding track record. Also a way of increasing my exposure to ASX, which I don't know a lot about. Platinum excepted, of course [^]

Ttops
03-06-2007, 07:42 PM
Heresy Lawso. Any others? [:0] They shall confess before the Sabbath. ;)

I was tossing up between the two as well. Couldn't afford both and have been tempted lately to the dark side and buying individual shares. [8)] Will be interesting which of FF and BRM does best. Glad you came out anyway. [:o)]
TT

Lawso
04-06-2007, 07:45 PM
quote:Glad you came out anyway.

[?] [?]

[:X]

Ttops
04-06-2007, 09:10 PM
]Originally posted by COLIN


quote:Original[quotely posted by gisborne_gold

I still don't understand why BRM would be trading above asset value. Kingfish trades below, as do most other funds it seems. Supply and demand, yes I know, maybe they've tapped into an under-supplied demand amongst kiwi punters for easy access to Australian stocks. But the premium being paid seems extraordinary.


I share your puzzlement, as per my posting of 24/11/2006. I do have a certain amount of admiration for the ability of Carmel and her team, and may be tempted to buy back in again, once (if) the price slips below NAV, but certainly not before then. There are better ways of hedging into the Aust. dollar.
[/quote]
Colin
By my calculations at $1.13 it is at a slight discount to dil NAV
Dil Nav is increasing rapidly at present. I note FF is buying BVA as it falls. Hope she knows what she is doing.
Lawso [:X] [:I]
TT

Ttops
05-06-2007, 06:30 PM
Dil NAV about 1.13 down 1 cent.
BVA down 8% before recovering to be down 4% :(

COLIN
05-06-2007, 08:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by Treetops

]Originally posted by COLIN


quote:Original
[:I]
TT


TT - I am continuing to run with my investment in Carmel's Australian Growth Fund in lieu of BRM. With the managed fund I know that when the time comes to cash up I will get full NAV. The only attraction of the BRM route is to go for the leverage that the warrants provide, i.e. BRMWA, but I don't feel comfortable about the extent of the premium that these still carry - particularly when compared with KFL/KFLWA, even allowing for the longer term to expiry.

Ttops
05-06-2007, 09:10 PM
Colin, Fair enough. Two questions if I may?
I thought the management fees would be comparable in BRM and FF? Is that what you mean by "full NAV"?

How do you calculate a premium for the BRMWA and roughly how much is it iyo?

I had assumed that less warrants (Half as many) might create more demand for BRMWA and account for the higher sp for BRMWA:BRM compared with KFLWA:KFL 34.5:114 cf 61.5:161 and also the time to run making holders less concerned about selling to preserve the market gains they have made. BRMWA have a 10:1 buyers:sellers on the depth

lakeside
06-06-2007, 09:30 AM
I don't think the listed and unit trusts necessarily match eg KFLs equivalent has added
Infratil.

I notice Carmen doesn't invest in property stocks - not enough growth I suppose.

Tim
06-06-2007, 04:45 PM
are their better listed trusts in aussie that covers smaller aussie companies

Ttops
06-06-2007, 07:50 PM
Good Question? Dil NAV probably closer to 1.11 now. See tomorrow.

rmbbrave
08-06-2007, 09:15 PM
Fisher Funds ups investment in Australia
3:30PM Friday June 08, 2007

Fund manager Fisher Funds has upped its investment in ASX-listed Australian growth companies five-fold.

In the past 12 months the firm says it has invested more than $350 million across the ditch, from $50 million in September last year.

It ranks as recent successes its stake in Credit Corp, a specialist debt collection business, whose share price has risen by over 240 per cent since the shares were bought in August 2005.

Coal seam methane producer Arrow Energy has also repaid the fund handsomely, with its share price rising from A55c to more than A$2.70 since March 2006.

Fisher's Australian Growth Fund has returned 19.4 per cent in the year to April 30 . The fund manager claims that when converted into Australian dollars, its performance would top all Australian-based equity funds investing in Australia.

Managing director Carmel Fisher said people were aware of the rise of the Australian resource sector in recent years, but there were also a surprising number and range of small, successful Australian companies .

"A lot of these companies are not well known, even to Australian investors, and therefore represent real opportunities for New Zealanders."

Growth companies, which historically deliver pay low dividends but deliver healthy capital gains, are thought to be especially attractive to New Zealand investors who cannot use Australian franking credits.

They also have stronger buying power thanks to the high New Zealand dollar.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10444394

rmbbrave
08-06-2007, 09:16 PM
07 Jun 2007 02:46
NTA: BRM: Barramundi NAV $1.1817 at 6 June 2007

The unaudited net asset value per ordinary share of the Company as at 6 June
2007 was $1.1817. The unaudited diluted net asset value per ordinary share
as at 6 June 2007 was $1.1211. This diluted net asset value describes the
effect if all warrants in existence were exercised today at $1.00. At 6 June
2007, 49,999,958 warrants remain to be exercised at any time between 26
October 2007 and 25 October 2009.

The net asset values above are after including accruals for any performance
fee payable to the Manager.

The unaudited net asset value per ordinary share excluding performance fees
as at 6 June 2007 was $1.2035 (fully diluted $1.1356).

The five largest portfolio holdings at 6 June 2007 are approximately as
follows:

Arrow Energy Limited 21%
Credit Corp Group Limited 10%
Aevum Limited 8%
Bravura Solutions Limited 8%
WHK Group Limited 6%

BACKGROUND
Barramundi Limited is a listed investment company investing in smaller
Australian companies listed on the ASX, and unlisted smaller companies. The
investment portfolio is managed by Fisher Funds Management Limited, a
specialist investment manager with a track record of successfully investing
in smaller company shares. Barramundi began operating on 26 October 2006 when
it allotted 100,000,000 shares and 49,999,958 warrants to applicants.

Ttops
09-06-2007, 10:44 AM
BRM + BRMWA have put on 39% /annum, 26% in 8 months so doing well compared to FF Aussie fund imo noting that on April 30 the shares were 1.11 and .31 vitually the same as Friday.

I "think" they are at a slight discount to dil NAV at 1.11 as I get about 112+ on sketchy 2sf figures.

Anyway I'm interested in what the effect of our rising interest rates will be short term on BRM. It does appear that the NZ/Aus$ is more stable? They are still buying Aussie shares so this could counteract the exchange rate rate rising versus the Aus?? Any thoughts fellow ST's?

KFL seems to have suffered more than BRM and its at a clear discount to dil NAV. Better buying or worse in the current situation of rising exchange rates or is it really rising that much?? It was largely anticipated perhaps even if the economists didn't?
TT

brent
18-10-2007, 08:23 PM
I see BRM has written to investors saying it is warrant exercise time. I guess with share price just over listing price there will be zero takers. (Might have been different in Aug when the price was close to $1.20).
Also note today that its NAV is $1.23 http://www.sharechat.co.nz/markets/news.php/NZSE/BRM/item/155456/A

Ttops
18-10-2007, 10:40 PM
I see BRM has written to investors saying it is warrant exercise time. I guess with share price just over listing price there will be zero takers. (Might have been different in Aug when the price was close to $1.20).
Also note today that its NAV is $1.23 http://www.sharechat.co.nz/markets/news.php/NZSE/BRM/item/155456/A
BRM has increased its sp by 2% over the year. The warrants at 26.5c today slowly down trending since May will be worth maybe 6 cents in two years at this rate.

Yossarian
18-10-2007, 11:13 PM
why such a big discount? hardly makes you want to pile into Fishers' new float (Marlin).

QOH
18-10-2007, 11:18 PM
I was asking about Marlin the otherday. There appears little interest, thinking seriously about cancelling my allocation.

ratkin
19-10-2007, 05:46 AM
Barramundi finally starting to look attractive. Now at a discount to NAV after being at a premium for a long time.
Recent price weakness will be partly down to people selling up to switch to Marlin

Only reason i can see for buying Marlin would be to stag it, and that looks doubtful , there isnt the money around there was last year.
For the longer term i cant see the attraction , there are plenty of quality listed funds around that are trading at a decent discount to NAV , why buy into one that isnt?

QOH
19-10-2007, 10:03 AM
Yes I was only going to stag Marlin. There seems to be very little publicity for it. I wonder if they think it's all been taken up by now. I think I'll probably cancel my allocation.

TwinkleToes
19-10-2007, 10:11 PM
I am confident this will be a good issue for a number of reasons.

Sideshow Bob
20-10-2007, 04:35 PM
Not much publicity, but did have an ad in todays ODT, which I think is the first one.

Scuffer
20-10-2007, 05:42 PM
Big fish in little pond little fish in big pond in my opinion.

QOH
20-10-2007, 06:54 PM
I cancelled my allocation Friday. I don't see it as a good time for a float. May pick up some warrants.

TwinkleToes
20-10-2007, 08:06 PM
1. Cashed up - not invested yet ie NTA of close to $1.00.
2. Previous listing success of Barrumundi.
3. Track record and following of Fisher.
4. Currency play when NZ dollar corrects as it surely must.
5. Lot's of stock to choose from 30,000+.
6. Internet means researching companies is a lot easier than it used to be.
7. Track record in growth stocks of individual hired to run fund.
8. Warrants attached.

That should be enough. I think they will sit in cash if the US markets stay as volatile as they currently are.

TwinkleToes
20-10-2007, 08:08 PM
MoSteph, How will you feel if it lists at a combined premium and you don't own it?

Ttops
20-10-2007, 08:32 PM
why such a big discount? hardly makes you want to pile into Fishers' new float (Marlin).
Why was it at a premium initially is a more interesting question perhaps or is it just part of the FF cycle. The unsatisfied demand? The expected increase so punters didn't want to miss out? The general mood of optimism back six months which is waning fast. FF buying pressure? Everything collapsing at once now so at a discount for just the same reason..people wanting out as the Fisher bubble has burst? Marlin may repeat the pattern? Not as likely though given FF will be a very small fish in a big pool or will the cycle just be shorter. Just not enough liquidity to attract many punters imo so I'm staying out of BRM and Marlin

COLIN
20-10-2007, 08:47 PM
Barramundi float is not a good comparison. BRM went to a premium (shares + options) presumably because of IPO oversubscription and because of some perceived "magic" about Carmel's abilities. The premium was quite irrational, given that one could have accessed the same end investments via Fisher's Australian Growth Fund, at par, and that KFL was trading at a discount to NAV. I jumped into the BRM float and took my profits shortly after (actions which were subsequently vindicated) but given the current jittery international climate and larger size of Marlin float I doubt that we will see a repeat of the BRM phenomenon.

TwinkleToes
20-10-2007, 10:02 PM
I ask myself the same question every time I see a fuddy duddy penny dreadful erupting upwards, say, 300% in the course of a day. But, then, I think to myself something to the effect of "wowee, and geeee whizzo, it sure feels good to have the same money I did yesterday".

I note that only "track record" was a company specific reason. I note, too, that there's some doubt as to whether Fishers have outperformed the benchmark historically (which naturally questions "track record"). What're your thoughts on this?

Of course, "how will you feel if it lists at a combined [loss] and you do own it?".

Yes, I'm prepared for a loss but with the NTA so close to par (unlike a penny dreadful) and all the NTA being cash I can't see it. Track record was supposed to be a group specific reason. Barrumundi is currently underperforming the australian small cap index but is still showing a good return. Sometimes small stocks take time. Also there has been some very positive currency movement in its favour.

Another reason to buy Marlin is I think there is strong liquidity out there due to people closing out their investments with finance companies.

So, at this stage I'm reasonably happy to have 70K in Marlin.

winner69
08-11-2007, 12:59 PM
If a stock which is 10% of the BRM portfolio tanks by 40-50% in one day does that mean that something like 5% of the portfolio is wiped out in one day?

Do they hang in there ....... or realise the loss now ....no, they will hang in there

The BOWMAN
08-11-2007, 11:20 PM
If a stock which is 10% of the BRM portfolio tanks by 40-50% in one day does that mean that something like 5% of the portfolio is wiped out in one day?

Do they hang in there ....... or realise the loss now ....no, they will hang in there

What a fall! Read the CCP announcement and couldn't figure out why it will cause a nearly 50% drop.

Balance
09-11-2007, 04:37 PM
Now below issue price of $1.00.

The fish has gone off?

Astounding to think that there were punters who were prepared to pay a 10% premium on listing! A managed fund with no track record in Australia.

Will the marlin now struggle against the elements?

Footsie
12-11-2007, 12:48 PM
BRM looks like a good play for now for those who dont want to manage their own money
significant discount to NAV even including CCP

Balance
12-11-2007, 05:00 PM
BRM looks like a good play for now for those who dont want to manage their own money
significant discount to NAV even including CCP

Most managed funds (including the over-rated GPG) trade at discounts of between 5% to 20% depending on how good the managers are.

BRM should be no different and I guess unitholders are now finding that out.

Marlin has sunk beneath the waves and will keep sinking. Waht is Fisher funds' competitive advantage palying in the global markets? Small insignificant fish swimming in the big ocean.

Taijon
25-01-2008, 07:52 PM
When the market was ripping along the company sent daily reports to the NZX on net asset backing per share. Funny how this little game has ceased in the current market.

BRM's largest portfolio holding and star performer (AOE) has really taken a tumble in 2008 and this must be impacting on the NAV.

Company website shows at 23 Jan 2008 NAV was $0.8404

Snow Leopard
25-01-2008, 09:44 PM
When the market was ripping along the company sent daily reports to the NZX on net asset backing per share. Funny how this little game has ceased in the current market....

Definite conspiracy going on here that you have uncovered Taijon.
Even stocknessmonster.com has had those daily reports deleted from their database:
BRM 2006 Announcements (http://stocknessmonster.com/news-history?S=BRM&E=NZSE&Year=2006)
BRM 2007 Announcements (http://stocknessmonster.com/news-history?S=BRM&E=NZSE&Year=2007)
BRM 2008 Announcements (http://stocknessmonster.com/news-history?S=BRM&E=NZSE&Year=2008)

regards
Paper Tiger

winner69
26-01-2008, 06:36 AM
If you asked me I would have said that BRM et al have always (or at least for a while)only made weekly announcements re NAV

Whatever all these funds have taking a beating over the 12 months - at a NV level let alone the shareprice

winner69
01-02-2008, 07:08 PM
January a bad nonth for Barramundi --- NAV fell by 22% to just over 86 cents

Top 5 holdings in AOE / BVA / AVE / TRG and PWK not a good place to be last month

At 22% down outperformed the ASX ....... whoops in down markets you want the %age figure to be smaller than the index ....... so presumeably they underperformed then

Shareprice still at a 20% discount to NVA probably reflects performance

Balance
15-02-2008, 07:11 AM
BRM looks like a good play for now for those who dont want to manage their own money
significant discount to NAV even including CCP

Not such a good way after all, Footsie?


Strange comments from BRM about CCP which has now fallen to an all time low.

"almost 10 per cent of the portfolio was invested in Credit Corp ," I make it more like 25% as CCP was over $30m when CCP was trading above $10.00?

"but Barramundi manager Frank Jasper says he has been reducing the fund's exposure over the past few months" Barramundi bought 7.85 per cent of Credit Corp at prices up to A$10.75. It then sold some shares at A$5.80 and bought them back at A$4.83. This week it sold down more shares at A$1.30.


Barramundi shares take a plunge
5:00AM Friday February 15, 2008
By Tamsyn Parker
Shares in Fisher Funds' Australian growth fund Barramundi have fallen to a low of 68c this week after one of its favoured investment stocks plummeted on the back of a second profit warning in three months.

Australian debt collection company Credit Corp has previously traded as high as A$10.75. But on Monday it fell 77 per cent in one day, dropping from A$3.08 to A91c after it announced profits for this year would be more than 40 per cent down on what it had expected.

The profit warning was the second the company had made. In November, it also warned of a profit drop which saw its share price drop by almost half.

The stock had been a top performer for Barramundi and was specifically mentioned in its annual report, but its fall has resulted in a loss of around $20 million or around 20 per cent of Barramundi's portfolio.

Also in November, almost 10 per cent of the portfolio was invested in Credit Corp but Barramundi manager Frank Jasper says he has been reducing the fund's exposure over the past few months, although he still broadly believes in the sector and the company.

"We are still of the view that it is bent, not broken," he told Stock Takes. Jasper said the share price drop was indicative of the current attitude to stocks where investors "shoot first and ask questions later" for any companies with negative news.

But other market players have been baffled by the fund manager's buy high sell low approach - initially Barramundi bought 7.85 per cent of Credit Corp at prices up to A$10.75.

It then sold some shares at A$5.80 and bought them back at A$4.83. This week it sold down more shares at A$1.30. Barramundi originally listed at $1 a share in October 2006. It peaked as high as $1.66 in May.

Balance
17-02-2008, 01:35 PM
These guys are pump and dump which has worked quite well for them in a tiny illiquid NZ market. Chase them into Australia at your peril. Much smarter sharks over there who will eat them alive.

Well said and you warned them, Lambton.

Think about this - BRM bought CCP and kept buying until BRM had 7% plus of CCP. Of course the continuous buying made CCP's share price go up and BRM's performance to look good. October 2007 was when BRM announced that it had bought 7 % plus of CCP.

A mopnth only later, Nov 2007, CCP blew up with a first profit warning so BRM sold some CCP shares. Share price halved.

From Dec 2007 to Jan 2008, BRM bought back CCP shares at up to $5.00. Why? To support the share price so make BRM's 7% plus in CCP look ok?

But comes Feb 2008, CCP blew up gain and BRM sold the same shares it was buying in Dec to Jan at $1.20!

How did BRM got CCP so wrong? Especially after Baycorp and RMG had taught investors a lesson to avoid debt collection agencies etc.

Those CCP shareholders who sold to BRM must be laughing like kookaburras. BTW, you know that a kookaburra is a kingfisher? Takes one to know one?

macduffy
17-02-2008, 02:45 PM
I take your point about big fish and small ponds, Balance. I made the same criticism prior to the launch of Marlin, an even more extreme case.
Having said that, I have found Fishers to be a useful first filter in researching Aussie stocks. AOE, RKN, AVE have been good for me, BVA less so, but still slightly positive. Was never attracted to CCP but then I held Baycorp several years ago.
Looks like a tough year all round for the listed Fisher funds with Kingfish trading at a 34% discount to claimed NTA.

Balance
18-02-2008, 08:42 PM
61 cents and still dropping.

Shareholders in BRM waking up to the fact that Fisher Fund has little if any competitive edge in the Aussie market - a tiny little krill in a vast ocean of predators?

p2r
19-02-2008, 07:48 PM
Oh boy ... with the new overseas tax rules BRM holders will pay tax as if they had 5% profit

Balance
19-02-2008, 08:56 PM
CCP down another 5% today.

And Fisher Australian Growth Fund down 20.2% in Jan 2008! Remember this is the fund which Fisher used to promote BRM - how great they were at picking Aussie dogs ...oops, stocks.

QOH
19-02-2008, 11:06 PM
that we hadn't put husband's kiwi saver account with them. Last time I looked it had lost 10%, probably lost more now. Wondering how hard it would be to swap providers now.

777
20-02-2008, 07:17 AM
that we hadn't put husband's kiwi saver account with them. Last time I looked it had lost 10%, probably lost more now. Wondering how hard it would be to swap providers now.


I would say that most providers of growth funds have had similar performance.

minimoke
20-02-2008, 07:38 AM
And from today's paper this won't be helping:
An apparent bust-up between high-profile fund manager Carmel Fisher and her right-hand man, Warren Couillault, comes against a backdrop of a changing fund management sector.
Mr Couillault, Fisher Funds Management's chief investment officer and 27 per cent shareholder, stepped down as a director on Friday but remains an employee.

macduffy
20-02-2008, 04:31 PM
I would say that most providers of growth funds have had similar performance.


Don't take this as " advice" because I'm not an investment advisor and I'm not qualified to give it, but if I was under 40 or thereabouts I'd be making sure my Kiwisaver fund was a growth ( equity) fund of some sort.
We can't measure performance over a few months and must expect major fluctuations over a period of 20 odd years or more. All the evidence points to equities/property being the best investment over the long term.

:)

777
20-02-2008, 05:16 PM
Macduffy that was the point was trying to make. QOH was indicating she was not happy with the performance for the kiwisaver fund her husband was in. I was just trying to say that all the other growth funds were in similar positions.

macduffy
20-02-2008, 05:34 PM
Yes, sorry, 777.
I was just reinforcing your point but replied to the wrong post.

:o

p2r
20-02-2008, 07:22 PM
Smart shares have kiwi & Aussie stocks for very low fees - a kiwisaver too.

QOH
20-02-2008, 07:49 PM
but last July things were looking rosier. Husband has just turned 64 so we have to stay in it for another 4 years and a half years, lol not sure if that will be long enough for things to come to right. Would like to just swap his to a cash fund like mine.

Toddy
20-02-2008, 08:08 PM
but last July things were looking rosier. Husband has just turned 64 so we have to stay in it for another 4 years and a half years, lol not sure if that will be long enough for things to come to right. Would like to just swap his to a cash fund like mine.

If your husband is 64 then I doubt he will be losing too much sleep over the current situation. He will know that things can turn positive as fast as they turned negative.

QOH
20-02-2008, 08:29 PM
If your husband is 64 then I doubt he will be losing too much sleep over the current situation. He will know that things can turn positive as fast as they turned negative.

You're right there Toddy, he's never been known to lose a moments sleep over anything. In fact he wouldn't have a clue where his kiwi saver money is invested.

Balance
20-02-2008, 10:02 PM
If your husband is 64 then I doubt he will be losing too much sleep over the current situation. He will know that things can turn positive as fast as they turned negative.

Really? CCP just dropped another 8% today. To get back to where BRM bought in will require CCP to put back on 900%.

For BRM to get back to $1.00 will require a 50% increase.

Balance
21-02-2008, 06:31 PM
CCP down another 6.67% today.

At this rate, it will be worth bugger-all by end of March.

Still no word from Fisher Fund why Warren resigned as a director. Anyone who has invested in any Fisher fund should be worried about the lack of information. Warren was promoted heavily by Fisher Fund as an integral part of its 'successful' management team.

winner69
21-02-2008, 07:21 PM
Balance - they must have had $11-$12m in CCP a while ago and that is now only worth $2m so a bit to go


Interesting that Investors Mutual are also a shareholder in CCP -- and Investors Mutual seem to be 50% odd owned by Treasury Group -- another BRM investment

Obviously sit around the lunch table and swap stories.

winner69
21-02-2008, 07:32 PM
I note BRM had $3-4M invested in Bluefreeway as at Sept .... thats down a fair bit as well

Balance
06-03-2008, 06:43 PM
Are investors in barramundi waking up to their ultimate nightmare? Their wealth is being eaten up by a barracuda?

38% down and still dropping.

Hope they did not put money into marlin because the marlin is turning to be a white pointer chumping away at their wealth!

Balance
06-03-2008, 08:02 PM
LOL ..... NZO - 3 years of going nowhere compared to other oil and gas companies doubling and trebling in share prices. Sure miss out there - big time!

Almost as funny as those investors who paid a 10% premium to buy BRM at listing ......

tim23
06-03-2008, 08:50 PM
Ouch! BRM also picked Creditcorp though!

Balance
07-03-2008, 06:56 AM
LOL ..... NZO - 3 years of going nowhere compared to other oil and gas companies doubling and trebling in share prices. Sure miss out there - big time!

Almost as funny as those investors who paid a 10% premium to buy BRM at listing ......

BTW ...this was in response to an admin-deleted post by one "Zorba" who was rabidly trying to talk up NZO as one of the great stocks in the world. Zorba wanted postings against BRM but cannot accept postings against NZO.

Enough warnings on this site from the likes of Lambton to steer way clear of Barramundi given Fisher's track record with small cap stocks in Prudential.

Oh well, 38% down and learning the hard and very expensive way.

tim23
07-03-2008, 07:37 PM
Wondered where that horrible post went too!

Balance
09-03-2008, 11:46 AM
Credit Corp, ABC Learning, Treasury Group etc. - investment expertise at work?

winner69
09-03-2008, 12:04 PM
Credit Corp, ABC Learning, Treasury Group etc. - investment expertise at work?


Bluefreeway was also a good un

patsy
09-03-2008, 12:15 PM
Fisher Funds are a typical example of what many books have found through research:

1) no fund manager can consistently beat the market

2) top fund managers one year fall to the bottom of the performance ranking the following year

3) due to (2) above, investors chasing top fund managers get burnt

Balance
09-03-2008, 02:05 PM
Bluefreeway was also a good un

What a shocker! BRM prides itself as a 'stock picker' rather than 'market watcher' in its literature. Takes a special kind of stock picker to pick so many stocks which have fallen so spectacularly:

Credit Corp - from $12.56 to 71 cents (-94%)
Blufreeway - from $2.40 to 35 cents (-85%)
Treasury Group - from $16.50 to $10.50 (-37%)
Oakton - from $6.79 to $3.04 (-55%)
Pharmaxis - from $4.45 to $2.42 (-46%)

Maybe BRM should be watching the market instead?

winner69
09-03-2008, 02:39 PM
What a shocker! BRM prides itself as a 'stock picker' rather than 'market watcher' in its literature. Takes a special kind of stock picker to pick so many stocks which have fallen so spectacularly:

Credit Corp - from $12.56 to 71 cents (-94%)
Blufreeway - from $2.40 to 35 cents (-85%)
Treasury Group - from $16.50 to $10.50 (-37%)
Oakton - from $6.79 to $3.04 (-55%)
Pharmaxis - from $4.45 to $2.42 (-46%)

Maybe BRM should be watching the market instead?

Balance me old mate -- what about WHK Group (WHG) and Vision Holdings --- also heading to record lows

BRICKS
09-03-2008, 03:27 PM
Balance me old mate -- what about WHK Group (WHG) and Vision Holdings --- also heading to record lows

AS you stated 69 your not buying Ozzy Banks can not see you buying this FISH..

Balance
30-03-2008, 08:49 AM
Have just spoken to somebody at ASB apparantly there was very heavy activity in this float, it closes today and they have been inundated with applications, some are going to miss out apparantly, they sorting through them on a first in basis

First in basis? That tasty Barramundi is looking like ten day old dead fish left on the beach by a well fed kingfisher?

BRM now 52 cents - a loss of 40% plus! And with stocks in the BRM portfolio like CCP, ABC Learning, Oakton and Treasury group, investors in at $1.00 will require 100% return to get their $1.00 back.

Based upon average long term equity returns, it will take about 8 years to get back to $1.00.

tim23
30-03-2008, 10:26 AM
Unless you think that the price pull back is overdone and they move closer to NTA again?

Dr_Who
30-03-2008, 04:50 PM
Anyone can make money during the boom period. Even the mums and dads got rich during the property boom.

The real test of a great investor is during the downturn period. Fisher Funds has shown they are just like all the other funds managers.

Balance
19-04-2008, 09:22 AM
Anyone can make money during the boom period. Even the mums and dads got rich during the property boom.

The real test of a great investor is during the downturn period. Fisher Funds has shown they are just like all the other funds managers.

Worse I think.

Down 30% for those for bought BRM on the back of 'outstanding' returns in Fisher NZ fund. 'Outstanding' returns brought about by buying more and more of the same illiquid stocks driving the prices higher.

Until the shxt hit the fan.

winner69
27-10-2008, 07:18 PM
Unless you think that the price pull back is overdone and they move closer to NTA again?


Current price of 50 cents the gap to NTA is getting closer I think

winner69
05-07-2009, 09:58 AM
still around the 50's and NAV in the 70'c

Paper today says some taking action to have BRM delisted so they access NAV

Interesting

biker
05-07-2009, 03:52 PM
still around the 50's and NAV in the 70'c

Paper today says some taking action to have BRM delisted so they access NAV

Interesting

MLN not BRM

COLIN
27-10-2010, 09:17 AM
I have moved most of my investment activity to the ASX these days as there is far more scope for profitable opportunities over there, particularly amongst the junior miners - provided you watch your portfolio like a hawk.

However, I have been steadily accumulating BRMWB over recent months, and it surprises me that there is not more interest shown by astute contributors on this forum. At an exercise price of 75c and a heads price of 82c, the options are "in the money" to the extent of 7c, yet that is all they are being bid at, at the moment, and yet they still have a whole year to run! Unless you are of the view that the Aussie market one year hence will not be any higher than it currently is - an unrealistic view, in the opinion of most, I would reckon - then an investment in the options would provide you with 10 times the return of an investment of the equivalent outlay on the heads.

The one "fly in the ointment" is the fact that BRM pays out regular dividends, which of course does not attach to the options but, even allowing for this factor, I see BRMWB as very attractive indeed, at its current price.

And no, I don't see these comments as "talking up my book!"

Catalyst
27-10-2010, 01:07 PM
What would happen to the BRM share price in one years time (exercise date Nov 2011 for BRMWBs) if:

1. The BRM share portfolio appreciates 10% in AUD terms over the next 12 months;
2. NZD/AUD appreciates from 76c today to 82c over the next 12 months; and
3. The discount to NAB goes from 10% today to 15% over the next 12 months;
(All realistic scenarios in my view.)

Answer:
1 and 2. BRM NAB goes from NZ$0.90 (A$0.684) today to NZ$0.92 (A$0.752);
3. This equates to a BRM share price of NZ$0.78 at 15% discount.

Therefore the BRMWBs theoretical price would be 3c at the exercise date next year (exercise price of 75c) compared to 7.2c market price currently.

I have looked at BRMWB's recently too Colin but I was burnt by the KFLWA warrants a year or two ago when the discount to NAB blew out to 20%+. I would feel more comfortable investing in BRMWBs if a) the NZD/AUD wasn't so weak; and b) the discount to NAB was higher.

COLIN
27-10-2010, 11:09 PM
What would happen to the BRM share price in one years time (exercise date Nov 2011 for BRMWBs) if:

1. The BRM share portfolio appreciates 10% in AUD terms over the next 12 months;
2. NZD/AUD appreciates from 76c today to 82c over the next 12 months; and
3. The discount to NAB goes from 10% today to 15% over the next 12 months;
(All realistic scenarios in my view.)

Answer:
1 and 2. BRM NAB goes from NZ$0.90 (A$0.684) today to NZ$0.92 (A$0.752);
3. This equates to a BRM share price of NZ$0.78 at 15% discount.

Therefore the BRMWBs theoretical price would be 3c at the exercise date next year (exercise price of 75c) compared to 7.2c market price currently.

I have looked at BRMWB's recently too Colin but I was burnt by the KFLWA warrants a year or two ago when the discount to NAB blew out to 20%+. I would feel more comfortable investing in BRMWBs if a) the NZD/AUD wasn't so weak; and b) the discount to NAB was higher.

Well, if one has negative feelings about BRM's prospects then one wouldn't be interested in BRMWB, I guess. And your second point would apply to any Aussie dollar investment, which is a view I don't share, given the much better prospects for the Australian economy versus NZ, both short and long term - aside, of course, from today's one-off slippage of the Aussie dollar, due to their lower CPI figure than forecast.

And I doubt if the discount to net asset backing will widen out again to any significant degree, given the lively nature of many of the individual stocks in their portfolio.

Beagle
28-10-2010, 07:37 PM
I have moved most of my investment activity to the ASX these days as there is far more scope for profitable opportunities over there, particularly amongst the junior miners - provided you watch your portfolio like a hawk.

However, I have been steadily accumulating BRMWB over recent months, and it surprises me that there is not more interest shown by astute contributors on this forum. At an exercise price of 75c and a heads price of 82c, the options are "in the money" to the extent of 7c, yet that is all they are being bid at, at the moment, and yet they still have a whole year to run! Unless you are of the view that the Aussie market one year hence will not be any higher than it currently is - an unrealistic view, in the opinion of most, I would reckon - then an investment in the options would provide you with 10 times the return of an investment of the equivalent outlay on the heads.

The one "fly in the ointment" is the fact that BRM pays out regular dividends, which of course does not attach to the options but, even allowing for this factor, I see BRMWB as very attractive indeed, at its current price.

And no, I don't see these comments as "talking up my book!"

Hi Colin, I am with you on the point you've made and to my mind given the high degree of volatility in the world markets, its quite bizarre that the warrants today are trading exactly in line with the share price differential, as of today's closing price 83 cents for the head share and 8 cents for the warrants. Any objective analysis using the black and schoales option pricing methodology would value these warrants significantly higher than where they currently stand, even after accounting for the 8% dividend per year policy on BRM head shares.

Having said that, there are some grounds to believe that Fisher Funds track record is somewhat questionable and I think there's more than an ounce of truth behind balance's post of 2008 above regarding buying up illiqid stocks e.t.c. Of course Fisher Funds have acknowledged that mistakes were made e.t.c., e.t.c. and that new proceedues and practices have been implimented...whether you believe them entirely and trust them is a matter for each investor to decide. Call me a cynic but I retain some reservations otherwise I'd be in boots and all and have hundreds of thousands of warrants.

Nothwithstanding some concerns, I think Barramundi warrants have excellent capital gains potential and could easily double or potentially treble or perhaps even more in the coming months if the Australian market booms, on the other hand if the world goes into free-fall as some bears continue to predict the most you can lose is 8 cents, so yeah, I'm a cautious believer, allbeit with both eyes wide open.

Disclosure - I have owned warrants for a few months now and currently stand slightly above break-even.

pierre
09-05-2011, 04:44 PM
I'm currently looking for a good yield stock and one that's not too volatile in terms of SP.

Does anyone have a current view on BRM (and BRM warrants). The heads are 79 cents today and the warrants are 2.7 cents - so are in the money. The shares are yielding a bit over 9% so that's a pretty good return in the current climate. Buying some warrants and exercising them in a couple of weeks time could be a cheap way in.

Or do you have a recommendation on some other stocks that might be a better proposition?

ratkin
09-05-2011, 04:59 PM
Are they really yielding 9% though?

Remember Barramundi isnt actually a stock , its just comprised of a basket off aussie stcks, and they
are not yielding anywhere near 9%

Catalyst
09-05-2011, 07:44 PM
Yes, Ratkin, BRM is yielding about 9.6% net currently. (4 quarterly dividend payments of about 1.9c = 7.6c / 79c share price = 9.6%.) Not sure about imputation credits.

BRM (and KFL) changed its dividend policy a year ago so that they both pay quarterly distributions of 2% of the avg NAV for the quarter, regardless of whether the basket of stocks pay any dividends or not.

Pierre, I would view BRM as simply a high yielding 'stock' and not count on any capital gain. It's performance since its 2006 listing has been very ordinary at negative 21% (plus some free options and some dividends).

I would view the warrants as quite risky with only five months to final exercise. Quite a lot could happen between now and then...two lots of 1.9c to come out of the NAV, the market could weaken, the discount to NAV may widen from its current 12%, the NZD/AUD could strengthen... all of which could send the share price from 79c to 75c or lower, rendering the warrants worthless. (Off course the opposite may occur but I am simply pointing out the risks.)

macduffy
10-05-2011, 07:41 AM
A policy that pays out 2% of NAV each quarter, regardless of actual income, runs a grave risk of eventually paying out its "Capital stock".
As ratkin has pointed out, the stocks in the portfolio wouldn't be yielding anywhere near 9%, few Aussie stocks are. Given that a lot of BRM holders will have opted for additional units rather than cash, there is an element of the old BIL/GPG annual "bonus" issue technique here.

I'd be careful about investing in BRM for these reasons. As someone else mentioned, an alternative approach would be to research the individual stocks in the BRM portfolio and make your own selections/investments. It worked for me a few years ago when I bought AOE, AEV and RKN of the Fisher favourite stocks. AEV was a dud but AOE returned about 6 times its cost when it was taken over. I still hold RKN which has more than trebled in value from purchase.

Catalyst
25-05-2011, 12:38 PM
Oh dear, BRM's top holding Pharmaxis is down 71% today after receiving a negative response on one of its proposed drugs. Doesn't look good for the warrant holders now.

Anna Naum
25-05-2011, 02:12 PM
Was 12% of the fund (obviously less now)

winner69
25-05-2011, 03:24 PM
Was 12% of the fund (obviously less now)

Last SSH said average cost was 273 ... 11 mill shares $31m ouch

Shows diversifiaction works eh .... 12% of protfolio down 70% is only a 8% loss

And less to pay out next time they pay out 2% of NAV

Beagle
25-05-2011, 03:30 PM
Pharmaxis announcement to the ASX was 2 hours 4 minutes before BRM's notice to the NZX and during that time this morning there was extremly heavy and unusal selling of BRM shares. Pharmaxis are their biggest holding by far and they appear to have been aggressivbly buying very recently. What are they doing taking such a large overweight position in a high risk medical research company ? Is this prudent investment ?

Further I find it highly unusual that Pharmaxis were on a trading halt yesterday pending this hugely material announcement but BRM did not see fit to inform warrant holders looking at excercising their warrants on the same day ? This can't be best practice. Very grumpy.

ratkin
25-05-2011, 03:43 PM
Surely those selling Brm were simply people who had seen the earlier notice put out by pharmaxis?

More disturbing is that a director of Pharmaxis sold about half a million shares
just before the stock went into a trading halt .

Beagle
25-05-2011, 04:01 PM
Surely those selling Brm were simply people who had seen the earlier notice put out by pharmaxis?

More disturbing is that a director of Pharmaxis sold about half a million shares
just before the stock went into a trading halt .

Thanks for that interesting information.

Voltaire
25-05-2011, 06:48 PM
Pharmaxis announcement to the ASX was 2 hours 4 minutes before BRM's notice to the NZX and during that time this morning there was extremly heavy and unusal selling of BRM shares. Pharmaxis are their biggest holding by far and they appear to have been aggressivbly buying very recently. What are they doing taking such a large overweight position in a high risk medical research company ? Is this prudent investment ?

Further I find it highly unusual that Pharmaxis were on a trading halt yesterday pending this hugely material announcement but BRM did not see fit to inform warrant holders looking at excercising their warrants on the same day ? This can't be best practice. Very grumpy.

Roger, I understand your grumpiness but I think some of your criticisms of the managers are unreasonable. The selling of BRM earlier today was clearly by those BRM holders aware of the PXS announcement (I was one of them, I have alerts recorded against the sp of the larger BRM holdings and receive relevant announcements by email, so I waited for market opening to see the extent of the impact on the PXS sp and then reacted accordingly).

The BRM managers won't have been aware, prior to today, of whether the PXS announcement was going to be positive or negative (unless you take a much more jaundiced view of things than I do) and so won't have been in a position to make an informed announcement to the market re BRM warrant exercise. It's not clear to me that they should be obliged to report merely that one of their major holdings is in a trading halt - Presumably that announcement would encourage as many people to exercise as it deterred so I'm not sure the net result would have been much different.

As to the prudency or otherwise of BRM's investment in PXS - it's near certain there would have been no complaints had the investment paid off and the sp rocketed upwards.

There is good transparency/communication around the BRM holdings and the rationale for those investments - in the end responsibility for accepting or rejecting that particular risk/reward mix must lie with the BRM shareholder.

Discl. Sold out of BRM today, still hold BRMWB

Catalyst
25-05-2011, 08:06 PM
The big question now is whether or not the BRMWB's will be in the money come 27 October 2011? Strike price = 75c

It could be very close.

Reduction in NAV after PXS's big drop today = 0.943 x 12% x 75% = 8.5c (PXS represented 12% of BRM and suffered a 75% drop since 18 May NAV announcement of 94.3c undiluted)

NAV today = 0.943 - 0.085 = 0.858 undiluted (assuming all other investments stayed the same)

Take off two quarterly distributions before 27 Oct = 0.858 - 0.02 - 0.017 = 0.821 undiluted

Generously assume the two chaps running BRM can generate a 5% return over the next five months = 0.821 x 1.05 = 0.862 undiluted

Diluted NAV = (0.862 x 109.3m shares + 0.75 x 45.3m warrants exercised) / (109.3m + 45.3m) = 0.829

Assume current 11% discount will remain = 0.829 x (1 - 11%) = 0.738

percy
25-05-2011, 08:33 PM
The big question now is whether or not the BRMWB's will be in the money come 27 October 2011? Strike price = 75c

It could be very close.

Reduction in NAV after PXS's big drop today = 0.943 x 12% x 75% = 8.5c (PXS represented 12% of BRM and suffered a 75% drop since 18 May NAV announcement of 94.3c undiluted)

NAV today = 0.943 - 0.085 = 0.858 undiluted (assuming all other investments stayed the same)

Take off two quarterly distributions before 27 Oct = 0.858 - 0.02 - 0.017 = 0.821 undiluted

Generously assume the two chaps running BRM can generate a 5% return over the next five months = 0.821 x 1.05 = 0.862 undiluted

Diluted NAV = (0.862 x 109.3m shares + 0.75 x 45.3m warrants exercised) / (109.3m + 45.3m) = 0.829

Assume current 11% discount will remain = 0.829 x (1 - 11%) = 0.738

Catalyst.
Thanks for doing the numbers.

Beagle
26-05-2011, 08:58 AM
Voltaire - I thought I could rely on BRM to manage the portfolio in a prudent, careful and well diversified manner. I fail to see how taking such a large holding in an extremly risky drug development firm is consistent with good prudential management. Perhaps its being managed with the primary focus of trying to substaintially outperform the market in the hope of the manager looking to earn performancee fees, capitalise a share of the profits for the managers and if it all goes wrong what the heck, the shareholders wear all the risk. It looks like recklessness investment to me.

I believe the vast majority of investors would prefer to see a far more diversfied investment base with no more than 5 % in any one stock, preferrably no more than 3%. Of course that would involve a lot more work and research for the Barramundi investment team...

I remain of the view that given the material effect on the SP warrant holders shoudl have been informed that Pramaxis was in the trading halt especially given that a yes or no has had such a dramatic effect on the SP, clearly a case of substaintial pending uncertainty where warrant holders would normally have been best to sit on their hands and not excercise, (if the company had been reasonable enough to inform them) Good upside, limited downside for warrant holders = do nothing and possibly excercise later, I am sure you would agree. Of course its in Barramundi's interests for warrant holders to excercise, that almost goes without saying so there was a vested interest on their part not to highlight the risk.

I have taken my concerns up with the company.

Anna Naum
26-05-2011, 09:18 AM
Voltaire - I thought I could rely on BRM to manage the portfolio in a prudent, careful and well diversified manner. I fail to see how taking such a large holding in an extremly risky drug development firm is consistent with good prudential management. Perhaps its being managed with the primary focus of trying to substaintially outperform the market in the hope of the manager looking to earn performancee fees, capitalise a share of the profits for the managers and if it all goes wrong what the heck, the shareholders wear all the risk. It looks like recklessness investment to me.

I believe the vast majority of investors would prefer to see a far more diversfied investment base with no more than 5 % in any one stock, preferrably no more than 3%. Of course that would involve a lot more work and research for the Barramundi investment team...

I remain of the view that given the material effect on the SP warrant holders shoudl have been informed that Pramaxis was in the trading halt especially given that a yes or no has had such a dramatic effect on the SP, clearly a case of substaintial pending uncertainty where warrant holders would normally have been best to sit on their hands and not excercise, (if the company had been reasonable enough to inform them) Good upside, limited downside for warrant holders = do nothing and possibly excercise later, I am sure you would agree. Of course its in Barramundi's interests for warrant holders to excercise, that almost goes without saying so there was a vested interest on their part not to highlight the risk.

I have taken my concerns up with the company.

Roger, one of the best postings I have seen for some time. Have added to your reputation and good luck with the getting a positive reply from the company.

percy
26-05-2011, 09:26 AM
Voltaire - I thought I could rely on BRM to manage the portfolio in a prudent, careful and well diversified manner. I fail to see how taking such a large holding in an extremly risky drug development firm is consistent with good prudential management. Perhaps its being managed with the primary focus of trying to substaintially outperform the market in the hope of the manager looking to earn performancee fees, capitalise a share of the profits for the managers and if it all goes wrong what the heck, the shareholders wear all the risk. It looks like recklessness investment to me.

I believe the vast majority of investors would prefer to see a far more diversfied investment base with no more than 5 % in any one stock, preferrably no more than 3%. Of course that would involve a lot more work and research for the Barramundi investment team...

I remain of the view that given the material effect on the SP warrant holders shoudl have been informed that Pramaxis was in the trading halt especially given that a yes or no has had such a dramatic effect on the SP, clearly a case of substaintial pending uncertainty where warrant holders would normally have been best to sit on their hands and not excercise, (if the company had been reasonable enough to inform them) Good upside, limited downside for warrant holders = do nothing and possibly excercise later, I am sure you would agree. Of course its in Barramundi's interests for warrant holders to excercise, that almost goes without saying so there was a vested interest on their part not to highlight the risk.

I have taken my concerns up with the company.

I think they did the same with CCP a few years ago.I do not hold BRM but as I hold MLN I look forward to you posting Fisher's reply.

buns
26-05-2011, 10:42 AM
Fair call

The beauty of hindsight ah.

I think it is a little short sighted having this conversation after the event, instead why was no one throwing toys with them having this large holding to start with? Instead of post the poor outcome.

So the 70% fall is irrelevant, if it went the other way would people still be posting messages regarding an unweighted/risky portfolio?

These look like comments in anger towards the 70% drop, not the portfolio composition which was a problem (depending on your view) for a long time.

Voltaire
26-05-2011, 10:55 AM
Fair call

The beauty of hindsight ah.

I think it is a little short sighted having this conversation after the event, instead why was no one throwing toys with them having this large holding to start with? Instead of post the poor outcome.

So the 70% fall is irrelevant, if it went the other way would people still be posting messages regarding an unweighted/risky portfolio?

These look like comments in anger towards the 70% drop, not the portfolio composition which was a problem (depending on your view) for a long time.

Agree on all points buns.

Roger, PXS has comprised a major part of the BRM portfolio for years (it was 10% of total investment even 2 years ago - 20/5/09). You have had all the time in the world to raise your concerns with Fishers or to sell out.

Interestingly, they have been moving slowly in the direction of greater diversification that you suggest.

The 5 largest holdings as of 20/5/09 were:

Arrow Energy Limited 19%
Pharmaxis Limited 10%
Pipe Networks Limited 10%
Aevum Limited 7%
Tox Free Solutions 5%

A combined total of 51% for the 5 largest holdings!

(As an aside, the overweighting in Arrow worked out very well for BRM holders)

Anyway, I hope you get a satisfactory response from BRM and will be interested to read it.

Beagle
26-05-2011, 10:58 AM
Anna - Thanks very much for your support, the spelling and grammer could have been better but for some strange reason I feel a little hot under the collar at the moment. If I get a reply from Barramundi I'll post it up here word for word.

Voltaire - I acknowledge I have been very lax and sleepy on my investment with BRM, my bad, I thought it was a set and forget investment, of course you are right I should have kept a far better watch and taken more interest. Nothing like a bit of pain to make one reassess their investments. But am I really that misguided to think I can just invest in something like this, set it and forget it trusting that they will excercise good prudent investment methodoligies ? Obviously more fool me, I can't trust anyone to manage my money in a careful dilligent and prudent manner. I should have been alerted to their lack of diversification a very long time ago as you quite rightly highlighted.

What a brilliant company Ryman are by comparison, opps, sorry, I digress....

buns
26-05-2011, 11:08 AM
The other thing to note here is you are investing in a stock picking portfolio following a ‘value’ mindset (notice all her buffet comments??), not a fully balanced asset class thing like Gareth Morgan.

Stock pickers buy undervalued stocks/markets. Portfolio composition in these will never meet the requirements you state above.

It's these exact reasons Fisher has beat the overall market over the last 5 years, but as we see here, you will eventually lose out a tad taking that risk.

Balance
26-05-2011, 11:51 AM
Anna - Thanks very much for your support, the spelling and grammer could have been better but for some strange reason I feel a little hot under the collar at the moment. If I get a reply from Barramundi I'll post it up here word for word.

Voltaire - I acknowledge I have been very lax and sleepy on my investment with BRM, my bad, I thought it was a set and forget investment, of course you are right I should have kept a far better watch and taken more interest. Nothing like a bit of pain to make one reassess their investments. But am I really that misguided to think I can just invest in something like this, set it and forget it trusting that they will excercise good prudent investment methodoligies ? Obviously more fool me, I can't trust anyone to manage my money in a careful dilligent and prudent manner. I should have been alerted to their lack of diversification a very long time ago as you quite rightly highlighted.

What a brilliant company Ryman are by comparison, opps, sorry, I digress....

Roger, have you looked closely at Carmel Fisher's track record closely?

Beagle
26-05-2011, 11:52 AM
How have BRM performed compared to the ASX since inception Buns ?

Balance - Lets have a look at BRM's performance since inception shall we ?

Going as far back as the Direct Broking chart allows me BRM were $1.15 in February 2007 and of course we are now at 77 cents. hmmmm, I'm sorry, I'm confused, can someone please explain to me what part of losing a third of your money over four and a bit years is impressive ?

From my viewpoint Carmel Fishers record sucks and please don't say the dividends, other companies pay dividends too and actually increase in value.

winner69
26-05-2011, 12:19 PM
How have BRM performed compared to the ASX since inception Buns ?

Balance - Lets have a look at BRM's performance since inception shall we ?

Going as far back as the Direct Broking chart allows me BRM were $1.15 in February 2007 and of course we are now at 77 cents. hmmmm, I'm sorry, I'm confused, can someone please explain to me what part of losing a third of your money over four and a bit years is impressive ?

From my viewpoint Carmel Fishers record sucks and please don't say the dividends, other companies pay dividends too and actually increase in value.

Look at last page here and make your own call .... 5 year returns a bit well well oh oh
http://www.fisherfunds.co.nz/uploads///From_The_Undergrowth_May11.pdf


Sounds like you got sucked in by the hype Roger .... why in hell did you invest in something that was stated as a 'stock picking' fund based on under valued small caps in Aust when you suggest you wanted a fully diversified sort of balanced fund

had to laugh that PXS was one of the big movers in April ... probably make the list again in May

ratkin
26-05-2011, 12:28 PM
Barramundi does seem to have suffered an extraordinary amount of bad luck .
Trust them to pick a biostock that failed

winner69
26-05-2011, 12:30 PM
Barramundi does seem to have suffered an extraordinary amount of bad luck .
Trust them to pick a biostock that failed

But then don't they have Centrebet as well ... a gambling company that succeeded

Toulouse - Luzern
26-05-2011, 12:32 PM
Voltaire Roger et al,
I am not a holder of BRM but do hold Fisher Funds Australian Growth Fund and also NZ.
FFM seems to me to be slow to act over the years.
Like Voltaire (price alerts) because of my concerns I set up a watch list for FFM NZ and also for FFM AU holdings some years ago.
As I don't know the relative % holdings of each stock this is not in my model.
I monitor the watch lists daily.
If price action for a stock concerns me I do look at TA charts and read the news for the relevant stock on DB site
Roger while you say you should have kept a better watch, even if you had been watching closely you still may not have picked the outcome.

For example, In FFM Undergrowth printed newsletter May 2011 with performace to 30 April 2011 that I received just last Saturday:

Australia (page 02) .6% loss for month.

...it was the biggest portfolio position in Pharmaxis (+12%) that made the largest positive impact on performance. There was no major news flow driving although the market is positioning for an announcement expected in May on European approval for Bronchitol. Universal Biosensors (+12% lifted a similar amount as Lifescan continued the European roll out of One Touch Verio (R)for which UBI provides the strip technology.

I don't know whether FFM/BRM have 12% of the portfolio in PXS as in the newsletter context 12% was the increase in SP for both PXS and UBI in the month of April.

PXS is down 1 cent at this point after bouncing back 8.5 cents earlier today. UBI all square.

All the best.

Keep smiling.

777
26-05-2011, 12:41 PM
How have BRM performed compared to the ASX since inception Buns ?

Balance - Lets have a look at BRM's performance since inception shall we ?

Going as far back as the Direct Broking chart allows me BRM were $1.15 in February 2007 and of course we are now at 77 cents. hmmmm, I'm sorry, I'm confused, can someone please explain to me what part of losing a third of your money over four and a bit years is impressive ?

From my viewpoint Carmel Fishers record sucks and please don't say the dividends, other companies pay dividends too and actually increase in value.

Published NTA Feb 2007 1.03
Published NTA now .943

Buyers were paying a premium in 2007 and now it is a discount. Thats the market.

Not all company's pay a dividend and increase on value. They are also affected by market forces.

Toulouse - Luzern
26-05-2011, 01:09 PM
Fisher Funds have published the NAV for the Australian Growth Fund at close of business yesterday.

It is AUD$ 2.1972 down from AUD$ 2.4387 the day before.
A loss of 10% ish however most of the ASX and FFM other stocks were down yesterday also.

Last time FFM Australian Growth Fund was at these levels was 2 Sep 2010 when it was 2.1894.
Eight and a half months growth lost in a day ...

Today 6 FFM AGF stocks are up, 3 down, 9 no change...

Voltaire
26-05-2011, 01:25 PM
Fisher Funds have published the NAV for the Australian Growth Fund at close of business yesterday.

It is AUD$ 2.1972 down from AUD$ 2.4387 the day before.
A loss of 10% ish however most of the ASX and FFM other stocks were down yesterday also.

Last time FFM Australian Growth Fund was at these levels was 2 Sep 2010 when it was 2.1894.
Eight and a half months growth lost in a day ...

Today 6 FFM AGF stocks are up, 3 down, 9 no change...

Yes, grim.

I bailed from my Australian Growth Fund holdings a few months back (short of the high but well above today's quoted unit price). I decided I didn't like the model, for the reasons yesterday's PXS price drop demonstrated - had I decided yesterday to quit my Australian Growth Fund holding my exit price would have been calculated on the unit price at the end of the day (the $2.1972 you quote above). In contrast, in holding BRM I was able to act immediately on market.

Arguably the BRM sp has suffered less than might be expected (currently at 76c).

Note: the unit prices quoted by Fishers are $NZ rather than $AU

777
26-05-2011, 01:26 PM
I think that the NTA is in NZ dollars Toulouse. With the change in the cross rate also having an affect on the NTA.

http://www.fisherfunds.co.nz/unit-prices.asp

Toulouse - Luzern
26-05-2011, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the correction NAV in NZ$

Beagle
26-05-2011, 01:36 PM
Current NTA just announced for BRM 83 cents something, sorry I forgot the decimal points in the shock of over a 10 cent decline in NTA in one week.

To answer some of the points raised:-

I notice those on here who have the time to monitor the situation closely are able to take advantage of this due to the untimely manner in which material Pharmaxis information was released to the market.

BRM's response to this point I raised with them yesterday is that the team were on a conference call with Pharmaxis, whether you believe this was for the full two hours 4 minutes between when Pharmaxis made there release to the Australian Stock exchange and BRM made theirs to the NZX, you be the judge, obviously those investors on here who invest the time to monitor BRM's individual investments reaped the reward for their time and effort. and the expense of an otherwise uninformed market. Whether this is right or otherwise you be the judge but it goes without saying I'm not impressed.

Value investing / stock picking and a good level of diversification are not mutually exclusive investment methodologies. Clearly I should have paid far more attention to BRM's portfolio and their investment operation, (I only have myself to blame for this), but I'll forgive myself because of 101 other matters during the GFC have kept me busy.

I remain of the view that investing 12% of a portfolio in a single biotech company is at "very best" a hugely risky investment approach. It could easily be argued that this amounts to self serving behaviour on the part of the investment manager and as such is grossly reckless investing.

Its become crystal clear BRM investment methodology and mine are at a considerable divergance so I'll be exiting the company at the first realistic commercial opportunity. Happy to post up Barramundi's response if I get one.

Good luck to those investors staying in long term.

percy
26-05-2011, 01:50 PM
I notice that MLN's largest holding is 6.3%.[Biotest Germany]Also notice they are thinking of us with their 2.3% in Fook Woo,China.[I kid you not.!]

777
26-05-2011, 01:57 PM
Roger 2.5c of that fall could be attributed to the change in the currency.