SKT Sky Network Television Limited.

[jimdog31]

Surely this is a lie and contravene the T&C's of Sharetrader website.

Haha, trust me at times in the recent past I wish it was a lie. A little more comfortable with it now!

Id post a gif to prove it but....

[mistaTea]

Haha, trust me at times in the recent past I wish it was a lie.

Id post a gif to prove it but....

How many shares do you hold?

[jimdog31]

How many shares do you hold?

Its got a 6 in front of it.

[mistaTea]

Everybody just relax!!!

(joker-why-so-serious.gif)

We are all wound up cos SKT cant trade today or yday, we get it.

facts are, we are all up or close to being up now, so lets just take a breath in…….and out…..

Ogg - I value your takeover theories when they aren't unhinged…. but you've got to look in the mirror and accept that comcast is more than likely out of the picture. Something, sometime, will happen, I'm sure, maybe just not with comcast.

Mistatea - I value your doggedness when it comes to sticking by the fundamentals of the business.

I'm somewhere in the middle of both of these theories, so I value both of your contributions.

Doesn't mean we all cant fit onto the spectrum of reasons why we are invested in SKT (Spectrum being the key word here)

Lets just all co exist!

Disclaimer - I'm pretty sure I hold more qty than both of you combined, for a mixture of both of your reasons for holding.


Fair comments.

To be clear - I am not against speculative discussions around Sky's future direction. I have speculated myself a number of times that I think Sky would be great as a telco for X, Y and Z reasons. I also opine that an acquisition of Vocus or some kind of deal with 2D could be beneficial (both of those telcos currently up for sale).

But I DO NOT bang on about how Sky are definitely going to buy Vocus (or 2D) and that it is a sure thing, will happen soon bro lol. Just wait and see...anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. Just lol if you don't agree!

And that is where I think Egg crosses the line. There would be nothing wrong at all if he just opined that a takeover of Sky by a big Content Owner would be beneficial for a range of reasons (I tend to agree that the idea could have merit).

He pushes it way beyond that (and he knows he does)...and that is where I think he is potentially flouting the rules and may land in hot water one day.

No skin off my nose if he gets in trouble I suppose, but just calling it out.

[mistaTea]

Its got a 6 in front of it.

Woah! I understand your reluctance to be more specific...you are close to making it as a Top 20 shareholder and featuring on the Annual Report...

I see Evolution Cycles Ltd of all things is number 20 right now with 7.945M shares...

[Vitamin_A]

So, 5 cents increments when SKT opens tomorrow?

[mikelee]

I'm more interested in the potential dividend pay out....hope 0.20 per share is not too greedy :p

[mistaTea]

I'm more interested in the potential dividend pay out....hope 0.20 per share is not too greedy :p

Not too greedy at all. If they further reduce s/o to 150M-155M from a buyback when the campus sells then a 20c/share divvy would be ~$30M.

Very doable. And with scope to increase in future years.

[ThaiJohn]

..steps into SKT thread after a few days out of it...WOW.
Chips, popcorn, comfy chair...

[mistaTea]

I'm looking forward to selling my shares so I can leave this thread.



You don't have to wait until you sell your shares to leave the thread mate. Just make sure you don't let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out.


It started to go down hill when the stock went up.



Don't worry honey, mistaTea is still here to bring the conversation back to Sky TV fundamentals...

[Quantitative Easing]

..steps into SKT thread after a few days out of it...WOW.
Chips, popcorn, comfy chair...

Taking a break are ya?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj9VArxREqY

[Quantitative Easing]

I liked the old you. When you were down 90% and on your knees praying for a takeover! But the stock pops, and now you're Mr Buffet or something. Just cage.

I'll keep saying it bro. This is a dog stock on life support! It's just waiting for a new owner to adopt it before it's put down. Lucky for you, cheap abounded pets are popular right now.

Hi bro i found a book about you:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/749789.Ogg?utm_medium=api&utm_source=blog_book

[mistaTea]

I liked the old you. When you were down 90% and on your knees praying for a takeover! But the stock pops, and now you're Mr Buffet or something. Just cage.

I'll keep saying it bro. This is a dog stock on life support! It's just waiting for a new owner to adopt it before it's put down. Lucky for you, cheap abounded pets are popular right now.

It is when you just blatantly lie that I find you the most loathsomely to be fair.

Guess I will have to block you after all *sigh*

[airedale]

It is when you just blatantly lie that I find you the most loathsomely to be fair.

Guess I will have to block you after all *sigh*


Perhaps you should both block each other and retreat to your trench behind the keyboard.:cool:

[Alpha]

Lets focus on the "fake/ real" depth 2 new Sales have been added at wait for it........

8000 @ $3.00

But more importantly someone has put

10000 @ $7.150

Which one of you is playing silly buggers.

[mikelee]

Perhaps you should both block each other and retreat to your trench behind the keyboard.:cool:

No, I'd love to see them join Joushua Wang and do a video on SKT together. :t_up:

[LoungeLizzard]

What's with this calling for people to be banned/blocked? This isn't China. If people can't tell the difference between entertainment and information then that's their problem.

[mikelee]

Lets focus on the "fake/ real" depth 2 new Sales have been added at wait for it........

8000 @ $3.00

But more importantly someone has put

10000 @ $7.150

Which one of you is playing silly buggers.

Could be a time traveller trying to pick up some bargains here :)

[LoungeLizzard]

I'm hoping that the buzz surrounding Sky - both rumours and the very solid metrics - will translate into some positive trading tomorrow. And there's also the property deal bubbling away in the background and the prospect of buybacks/dividends. Good to finally see SKY get it's mojo back -it's been a long time coming.

[Alpha]

What is that in the small print. I have based my whole investment decisions around what Ogg has told me to do.

[Panda-NZ-]

I'll send you my commission bill.

*Alpha promptly leaves the country and does not respond to calls.

[LoungeLizzard]

It will/(might) do an "SXL" and hit $2.50 because of lack of supply

Initially I was skeptical of the effect of share consolidation on investors, but more and more I think it may prove to be a stroke of genius. The optics of a company valued at $2.50-$3.00 per share looks better, the lack of supply puts upwards pressure on SP, EPS etc all look better. Overnight it seems like a new company. And for conspiracy theorists it looks far more attractive as a takeover/merger prospect. Win - win ???

[mistaTea]

Initially I was skeptical of the effect of share consolidation on investors, but more and more I think it may prove to be a stroke of genius. The optics of a company valued at $2.50-$3.00 per share looks better, the lack of supply puts upwards pressure on SP, EPS etc all look better. Overnight it seems like a new company. And for conspiracy theorists it looks far more attractive as a takeover/merger prospect. Win - win ???

Focus on the fundamentals, anything else around market psychology based on optics or other possible ‘events’ are a distant secondary and just a bonus if it happens.

As John Templeton often pointed out - it is the earning power of a business that will ultimately win out.

This has been my thinking since investing in Sky - although it is taking slightly longer to play out than I initially anticipated! 😅

[LoungeLizzard]

Focus on the fundamentals, anything else around market psychology based on optics or other possible ‘events’ are a distant secondary and just a bonus if it happens.

As John Templeton often pointed out - it is the earning power of a business that will ultimately win out.

This has been my thinking since investing in Sky - although it is taking slightly longer to play out than I initially anticipated! 

Yeah, you could always tell a fellow Sky investor by their haunted expression and nervous twitch. The gains of the last few weeks should just about pay for the years of therapy:p

[mistaTea]

Yeah, you could always tell a fellow Sky investor by their haunted expression and nervous twitch. The gains of the last few weeks should just about pay for the years of therapy:p
Haha! Yeah the bags under the eyes from sleep deprivation, sallow skin and constant muttering is how you can spot most Sky investors!

That wild look in their eyes…

[nztx]

Yeah, you could always tell a fellow Sky investor by their haunted expression and nervous twitch. The gains of the last few weeks should just about pay for the years of therapy:p

LOL .. please try to be kind to our troubled OGG - all that nervous twitching on whether to stay or exit .. ;)

[Quantitative Easing]

Some sell orders at $8.69 :O

[nztx]

Some sell orders at $8.69 :O


One of the symptoms of holding the abacus upside down after months of nervous torture, I suspect :)

[mistaTea]

One of the symptoms of holding the abacus upside down after months of nervous torture, I suspect :)

If you watch the stock price all day, each and every day then holding SKT shares is akin to being waterboarded every work day...

[Quantitative Easing]

One of the symptoms of holding the abacus upside down after months of nervous torture, I suspect :)

Or maybe punters don't want to sell the shares on the cheap?

$7/share is only 1.2B market cap. So not out of the realms of possibility.

[mistaTea]

Or maybe punters don't want to sell the shares on the cheap?

$7/share is only 1.2B market cap. So not out of the realms of possibility.

An eventual $60M divvy at a 5% yield would do it...

[nztx]

Or maybe punters don't want to sell the shares on the cheap?

$7/share is only 1.2B market cap. So not out of the realms of possibility.


Gee - 70.0 cps pre consolidation .. getting up a bit on previous guesses ;)

[mistaTea]

Gee - 70.0 cps pre consolidation .. getting up a bit on previous guesses ;)

Just think, I am sure Sophie can bring Sky back to its previous highs like it was under John Fellet in short order.

That would be a SP of about $12/share.

missusTea might even bring out the butt plug then...to use on me...

[nztx]

Just think, I am sure Sophie can bring Sky back to its previous highs like it was under John Fellet in short order.

That would be a SP of about $12/share.

missusTea might even bring out the butt plug then...to use on me...



Be good even at the adjusted NZX SIX Dollar 2 years ago, before the carnage .. On that I guess OGG may be off on a permanent
holiday never to be seen here again ? ;)

[Sideshow Bob]

Been reading some of John's old letters to shareholders...man that guy really knew how to write letters that educated you on the business.

Not the stock standard corporate bs you got from Martin and now Sophie. A bunch of words that say "we must do better" and blah blah blah but does not actually leave the reader any wiser as to what is happening with their business.

He reminds me of Buffett in the way he wrote his letters.

I do miss John.

Speaking of Fellet, this was from the Farmers Weekly last week:

From non-existent to connected | Farmers Weekly (https://farmersweekly.co.nz/section/other-sectors/brand-insights/from-non-existent-to-connected)

[mistaTea]

Speaking of Fellet, this was from the Farmers Weekly last week:

From non-existent to connected | Farmers Weekly (https://farmersweekly.co.nz/section/other-sectors/brand-insights/from-non-existent-to-connected)

My man! Bring JF back on the board I say.

Hell, I want him to be chairman.

[Quantitative Easing]

The video version of it. We were lucky in Aotearoa|New Zealand to be blessed with John's capability.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CddB8OfowI

[Baa_Baa]

My man! Bring JF back on the board I say.

Hell, I want him to be chairman.

I would sell immediately, and suspect many others would as well, especially the insto's. He had his time, completely misunderstood the changes in media content delivery and presided over a monstrous destruction of shareholder value.

Let it go, he's gone and finally we have a strong strategy, coherent plans and leadership to take us forward.

[sb9]

I would sell immediately, and suspect many others would as well, especially the insto's. He had his time, completely misunderstood the changes in media content delivery and presided over a monstrous destruction of shareholder value.

Let it go, he's gone and finally we have a strong strategy, coherent plans and leadership to take us forward.

I’m in same boat too, he had his time and didn’t really foresee the upcoming changes in business landscape Sky operates in. While being a monopoly it’s easy to take your eye off the ball and that’s exactly what happened under his watch.

[Quantitative Easing]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/126407201/spnzx50-dips-as-gdp-jump-raises-spectre-of-interest-rate-rises

Sky TV shares remained in a trading halt ahead of a share consolidation (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/377874), with shareholders receiving one Sky TV share for every 10 they hold at 5pm on Thursday. The shares will resume trading at $2.05 on Friday, having closed on Tuesday at 20.5c each.

“That’s probably going to be quite good for them, I would say,” said Hampton. Sky TV was likely to get a bit more interest as it would not seem too cheap in the eyes of some investors, he said. “It doesn't actually affect the value of the company, but New Zealanders like our shares to be the $1 to $30 mark. Mainfreight runs into the opposite problem. “In America, for example, the more expensive the better as far as those investors are concerned and then Australia’s somewhere in-between, they like to see their shares around A$50 to a couple of hundred dollars.”

[Marilyn Munroe]

A great advertorial by John Fellet but in my opinion he over-sells it.

The dish on his roof is connecting to a satellite disk located at an altitude of 35,000Klm above the equator.

Satellite bandwidth is good but response times are terrible. I wonder what the round trip time is for a packet of data going up to the satellite, back down to the ground station, through the terrestrial network to a server routing through the internet exchange located in downtown Auckland's Sky Tower and the response arriving.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[mistaTea]

A great advertorial by John Fellet but in my opinion he over-sells it.

The dish on his roof is connecting to a satellite disk located at an altitude of 35,000Klm above the equator.

Satellite bandwidth is good but response times are terrible. I wonder what the round trip time is for a packet of data going up to the satellite, back down to the ground station, through the terrestrial network to a server routing through the internet exchange located in downtown Auckland's Sky Tower and the response arriving.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

No idea, but he is able to do Zoom calls by the sounds of things so it speeds and latency must be ‘good enough’.

I don’t think satellite internet will get any traction in NZ beyond people living in the boonies with absolutely no alternative (these properties are relatively few in number and shrinking each year).

Everyone else is or will be well served with fibre or 5G.

Just boo having to go through the rigmarole of setting up another satellite dish on your house if you have an alternative.

[Marilyn Munroe]

No idea, but he is able to do Zoom calls by the sounds of things so it speeds and latency must be ‘good enough’.


You may remember in the recent past television news pregames where the newsreader says "we cross by satellite to our correspondent in London" where the correspondent pauses for several seconds before responding to the newsreaders questions.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS. Off topic, so I will end this thread here.

[Akane]

Never heard of Kicific, it'll be overtaken by Elon's dishy anyway, everyone has a raging hard on for him and his products.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Speaking of Fellet, this was from the Farmers Weekly last week:

From non-existent to connected | Farmers Weekly (https://farmersweekly.co.nz/section/other-sectors/brand-insights/from-non-existent-to-connected)

ha ha ha - that service is already doomed to failure given the much higher performance of starlink which uses a massive constellation of low earth orbit satellites with speeds over 400MBS, and it’s two way data.

[Alpha]

Looking like it will open at 2.03

Ok 2.04 pretty happy with that

[Alpha]

AGM up shortly what are the chances we get news before then re property?

Also how good is it to be out of Trading Lockdown

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Quite relieved to see investors are perfectly sane and able to see that the share consolidation had no fundamental difference whatsoever on the underlying companies market value. Trading resumed at the same exact market value.

[LEMON]

Sharesies showing I'm up 900%, and the value of 100k, wonder how many sharesies investor will sell out on that update.

[LoungeLizzard]

Quite relieved to see investors are perfectly sane and able to see that the share consolidation had no fundamental difference whatsoever on the underlying companies market value. Trading resumed at the same exact market value.

Yes, that was always the risk in my mind - that some would still see SKY as a penny dreadful stock. Glad to see the market behaving itself. Will be interesting to see what happens to the SP when Aussie comes on-line.

[DownTownJr]

Yes I am up over 2million on my Sharesies account this morning lol.

[Balance]

AGM up shortly what are the chances we get news before then re property?

Also how good is it to be out of Trading Lockdown

Property has been marketed since March and is still on the market.

Looks to me like SKT is expecting a much higher price than the market is prepared to pay?

Last council valuation was $24m.

For what it is worth, I talked to a real estate agent who believes it would be worth much more these days as a residential development. But that requires a rezoning application which may or may not be consented to.

That could be the reason for the protracted negotiation.

[Sideshow Bob]

Sharesies showing I'm up 900%, and the value of 100k, wonder how many sharesies investor will sell out on that update.

Sky is dead according to Sharsies FB page.

Might be a few more secret Sharsie holders though.....

[Alpha]

Will be interesting to see how ASX opens.

[LEMON]

Sky is dead according to Sharsies FB page.

Might be a few more secret Sharsie holders though.....

Lol, I wouldn't dare go on that page again, I looked once and realised although I know very little about investing, I'm learning more than most.

Most of them don't even know what the company even does, then they argue about whether it will reach the moon and if that's doesn't work it will be "just buy tesla or crypto"
I think the few who take the time to read and learn about investing and the company they invest in don't associate themselves with sharesies crowd, I just use it as a platform to invest lol

[Alpha]

What I like are the questions. Thoughts..... What will pump today....... What does the announcement say. Facepalm

Most of them are investing small dollars but expect to make Millions, doing no research. There almost should be some restrictions/ or minimum requirements before being able to buy. And if they want to speculate go to the dam casino/ or TAB.

[mistaTea]

Morningstar still says Sky worth 30cps...

[Alpha]

Morning star is a joke. They update the expected price in the blurb but cannot even be asked to update the estimate on the day SKT comes out of trading halt.

[mistaTea]

Morning star is a joke. They update the expected price in the blurb but cannot even be asked to update the estimate on the day SKT comes out of trading halt.

Brian Han too busy fretting over whether broadband revenue will be bundled in with STB or itemised separately.

[jimdog31]

Brian Han too busy fretting over whether broadband revenue will be bundled in with STB or itemised separately.

Sadly, thats not even a joke.

heres hoping now we dont look like a penny stock we might get some real analysis.

[mikelee]

ok, pushed it up to 2.07 that's me done for the day. Someone push it up to 2.08 please :cool:

[Snow Leopard]

What's up with the ASX?

Nothing.
The problem is you, not paying attention.

ASX:SKTDA

[Not The Chosen One]

Nothing.
The problem is you, not paying attention.

ASX:SKTDA

Settle down, buttercup.

[winner69]

Settle down, buttercup.

Hey snowie …ever been called buttercup before?

[Sideshow Bob]

Getting rough in the SKY playpen on a Friday arvo......!!

[alokdhir]

Volume has died after consolidation ....Regular 5 mil should be 0.5 mil now but its just 200K ...where are the traders ?

[jimdog31]

Volume has died after consolidation ....Regular 5 mil should be 0.5 mil now but its just 200K ...where are the traders ?

Gone hopefully!!! The only way this will appreciate to where it needs to be

[nztx]

SP 2.09 on 20 min delay -- dont look too shabby an outcome post consolidation .. ;)

Could be a celebratory party at Ogg's place when times permit, if the trend continues ? ;)

[Not The Chosen One]

Nice wee finish to end the week at 2.13

[mistaTea]

Nice wee finish to end the week at 2.13

I note there is one optimistic seller offering 8,000 shares for $6.50 a pop.

[Not The Chosen One]

I note there is one optimistic seller offering 8,000 shares for $6.50 a pop.

They know what they're doing.

[mistaTea]

Important insights from The Big Man in the 2018 Annual Letter.

The content wars
Every now and then you will read a storyabout a piece of content we have lost bybeing out-bid by a competitor. Such storiesusually include an interview with a media
or technology expert (who, by the way, hasnever bought a piece of content in their life)predicting that this marks the start of SKY’sdecline or maybe we have badly misjudgedthe public interest in this particular piece
of content.
The fact is, we get out-bid for content everyyear. In fact, if there is a year that goes bywithout an article regarding SKY losing acontent deal you should attend the AGM
to voice your concern.
In thinking about content it is important thatone understands the difference betweenPrice and Value. Price is the amount you payfor something but Value is what you get withthat piece of content. The easiest thing todo is win content auctions. All you need todo is keep bidding until everyone else dropsout. But you don’t actually “win” the bid untilyou extract enough value to cover yourcosts. There are several contracts we havelost over the years, but seldom has the samecompany come back the next time and bidthe same amount.
We could double every one of our bids andnever lose anything, but before long wewould have half the content with the samecontent costs.
The biggest advantage we have in biddingis our 28 year history of viewing statistics.When we lose bids they tend to be highprofile events which for whatever reasonhave lost their way. The Oscars are a perfectexample. As I write this, SKY has beeninformed that we were not the highestbidder for the Oscars in 2019. The Oscarsare one of my favourite shows of the year,in part because I am in the industry. But forreasons I am not sure about, and in spite ofour best efforts, we have seen the ratingsdecline four years in a row. I am not surewho won the bid. I am not sure their bidwould have been as high if they had thebenefit of our data and content insights.
The other advantage we have is the breadthof our content offerings. At any one timeSKY has 4,500 programmes on the gocontained in 3,000 different contracts.

The biggest one is a sport contract,
but it still only represents 23% of totalsport viewing (which is represented by791 different contracts), and less than 6%of overall viewing on SKY. And that is aftertaking out all the free-to-air viewing onthe platform.
When our competitors pay above the valueon some content it means that they haveto bid under the value on other content.
In every country the debate always rageson which platforms have the best content.In New Zealand there is seldom any debatearound Movies, Sport and Basic Channelswhich SKY dominates. Lately I have heardthe claims by competitors that they havethe best TV series, but I disagree. Don’t takemy word for it. The Emmy nominations arein for 2018. SKY has the majority of thenominated shows, with over 200nominations across 59 titles.

[Muse]

They know what they're doing.

haha, classic.
Sidenote: this thread is weird.

[nztx]

haha, classic.
Sidenote: this thread is weird.



SP is moving to the "Real" -- can't knock that :)

[Meh]

Even at $10, I don't know if sky will make me enough to even maintain that place!

[nztx]

Even at $10, I don't know if sky will make me enough to even maintain that place!

May need a large win in Mega Millions or American Powerball to pay the upkeep ;)

[Quantitative Easing]

SKT stock pick for 2021 and 2022. This company will mint new millionaires.

[Slim]

Nice little run up with very small supply on sell side.
What ashame it was just before the weekend.

[Bjauck]

...
When our competitors pay above the valueon some content it means that they haveto bid under the value on other content.
In every country the debate always rageson which platforms have the best content.In New Zealand there is seldom any debatearound Movies, Sport and Basic Channelswhich SKY dominates. Lately I have heardthe claims by competitors that they havethe best TV series, but I disagree. Don’t takemy word for it. The Emmy nominations arein for 2018. SKY has the majority of thenominated shows, with over 200nominations across 59 titles.
The Emmy Awards are naturally slewed to American shows. While NZ tastes have become more Americanised over the decades, we also like home produced entertainment alongside good doses of British and Australian programming. So Bafta and Logie Awards are relevant for us too?

[alokdhir]

Nice little run up with very small supply on sell side.
What ashame it was just before the weekend.

Its still in the last weeks or before's range 20.5 cents to 22 cents ...just decimals shifted . Nothing big changed ....Only over $ 2.20 will real action begin ...waiting to see that mini breakout ...Maybe this thread people will help ...actually need OSM people to do some serious buying till $ 2.5 levels and shift the range to $2.3 to $2.5 ....they will do that only if they stopped getting stock in this range ....So hold all selling

[winner69]

Closed lower than the high of the 10th

A very eventual week …..at least keep you guys occupied

[Quantitative Easing]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jul/09/morrisons-private-equity-buying-spree-hits-new-record-as-british-firms-targeted

Could be a good sign for Sky.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Its still in the last weeks or before's range 20.5 cents to 22 cents ...just decimals shifted . Nothing big changed ....Only over $ 2.20 will real action begin ...waiting to see that mini breakout ...Maybe this thread people will help ...actually need OSM people to do some serious buying till $ 2.5 levels and shift the range to $2.3 to $2.5 ....they will do that only if they stopped getting stock in this range ....So hold all selling

be careful mate - this isn’t the USA - attempting to arrange a coordinated buying or selling strategy purely to impact stock price is I think illegal under New Zealand law.

Others more familiar with NZ law can clarify as to whether I got this correct or not.

[LEMON]

I am enjoying this SKT rollercoaster.
I find the slower movements allow me to think about my investment, not just chase gains or sell on fear, it's always more fun when you're winning.
Learnt a few things being invested in SKY, so if it takes a little longer I'm happy with that, slow and easy, and readjust.

[HCR20]

I am enjoying this SKT rollercoaster.
I find the slower movements allow me to think about my investment, not just chase gains or sell on fear, it's always more fun when you're winning.
Learnt a few things being invested in SKY, so if it takes a little longer I'm happy with that, slow and easy, and readjust.


Yes, same here. I bought SKT at the start of the year, figuring it was under valued by around 30%. Interesting to observe my own emotional reaction as my holding slumped to -20% or so. Great learning for me as I was able to hold and see the fruits of that now.

[winner69]

Yes, same here. I bought SKT at the start of the year, figuring it was under valued by around 30%. Interesting to observe my own emotional reaction as my holding slumped to -20% or so. Great learning for me as I was able to hold and see the fruits of that now.

So overvalued now?

[mistaTea]

So overvalued now?

Interesting how some seem to think that the risk of buying a piece of Sky TV increases as the stock goes down, and decreases when we see some upwards 'price action'.

When, in reality, the opposite is true.

[LoungeLizzard]

Interesting how some seem to think that the risk of buying a piece of Sky TV increases as the stock goes down, and decreases when we see some upwards 'price action'.

When, in reality, the opposite is true.

It's not an immutable law. You can lose out at by following the herd up or down. In Sky's case market sentiment has shifted due to the fundamentals of the company improving and in my opinion it's got someways to run yet.

[mistaTea]

It's not an immutable law. You can lose out at by following the herd up or down. In Sky's case market sentiment has shifted due to the fundamentals of the company improving and in my opinion it's got someways to run yet.

In what way have the fundamentals of the business changed today relative to, say, a month ago?

[Monarch]

The risk is unchanged or arguably reduced by the increase in share price. The potential reward however is not quite as sweet now as it was back at 15 cents :t_up:

[mistaTea]

The risk is unchanged or arguably reduced by the increase in share price.

I would have stopped at the first part of your sentence.

What is the argument that the business risk is lower now that the SP is higher than a few weeks ago?

[Balance]

Interesting how some seem to think that the risk of buying a piece of Sky TV increases as the stock goes down, and decreases when we see some upwards 'price action'.

When, in reality, the opposite is true.

Try riding Sky from $3.00 down to 15c.

What’s the reality then?

[mistaTea]

Try riding Sky from $3.00 down to 15c.

What’s the reality then?

I don’t think that makes owning Sky “the business” any riskier.

It certainly affects the kind of return you can expert to get on the investment though. If your average was $3/share when there were 389M shares outstanding then you were saying Sky was worth $1.167B.

You may have made an error in your valuation of the business (and can therefore expect your returns to suffer), but once you took a position your RISK did not change one iota just because the SP fell subsequently.

[Balance]

I don’t think that makes owning Sky “the business” any riskier.

It certainly affects the kind of return you can expert to get on the investment though. If your average was $3/share when there were 389M shares outstanding then you were saying Sky was worth $1.167B.

You may have made an error in your valuation of the business (and can therefore expect your returns to suffer), but once you took a position your RISK did not change one iota just because the SP fell subsequently.

Sp falling from $3.00 to $1.50 tells us that the business had inherently became more risky. That’s why it continued to fall.

[mistaTea]

Sp falling from $3.00 to $1.50 tells us that the business had inherently became more risky. That’s why it continued to fall.

Let’s imagine you could buy all of the shares at the time based on $3/share ($1.167B).

A year later you speak to an investment banker to see if you can sell your business. The investment banker tells you that unfortunately the sentiment of “the market” has changed towards content aggregators the past year and if you sell it now you would be lucky to get half what you paid for it. Ouch!

Right now, you still own the entire business though and it still has the same commercial prospects as before.

Is your business now RISKIER than it was before you picked up the phone to call your investment banker?

[snigmac]

Sp falling from $3.00 to $1.50 tells us that the business had inherently became more risky. That’s why it continued to fall.

The share price is a reflection of what the market thinks about a business. Sky's business was risky before, now it is less risky (and will continue to be less risky) as it opens up other sources of revenue in addition to satellite revenue (e.g. through Neon and broadband) and focuses on its 'bundle'. The share price reflects this.

I think that because the market couldn't see Sky transforming itself (previously), the result was that the share price fell from heights to $1.50 and less. Now that the business has taken steps and is beating targets in its transformation, the market (in my opinion) sees Sky's business (with the success it has had with its transformation) as less risky :).

In a world where Covid-19 is endemic, I know I'm going to be staying inside more to watch Neon and etc.

[Monarch]

I would have stopped at the first part of your sentence.

What is the argument that the business risk is lower now that the SP is higher than a few weeks ago?

A share price significantly below what I deem to be fair value can imply two things. The first - I am right in my assessment and the market is acting irrationally for whatever reason. The second - I am wrong and/or other players have access to information that I do not and based on this have dumped the stock. This is where most of the added risk of this investment is to me. What am I not seeing? What have I missed that others have spotted?

Another thing to consider is capital raisings. Who enjoys being diluted at a price below what they consider fair value? Or raising debt? Hard to get good rates if everyone thinks your business is on the brink of failing. These are risks to my investment.

[mistaTea]

The share price is a reflection of what the market thinks about a business. Sky's business was risky before, now it is less risky (and will continue to be less risky) as it opens up other sources of revenue in addition to satellite revenue (e.g. through Neon and broadband) and focuses on its 'bundle'. The share price reflects this.

I think that because the market couldn't see Sky transforming itself (previously), the result was that the share price fell from heights to $1.50 and less. Now that the business has taken steps and is beating targets in its transformation, the market (in my opinion) sees Sky's business (with the success it has had with its transformation) as less risky :).

In a world where Covid-19 is endemic, I know I'm going to be staying inside more to watch Neon and etc.

Yes, the SP is a reflection at any point in time about how the market ‘feels’ about a business. For most businesses the SP is a reasonably accurate reflection of the intrinsic value of the business…MOST of the time.

But the market can be overly optimistic and times and overly pessimistic at other times based on the consensus.

Completely separate to the view of the market every 15 minutes…is the underlying performance of the business. I would argue that your only real risk is either getting the analysis wrong in the first place (and therefore getting your valuation incorrect and paying too much) or some Black Swan event happening that you couldn’t predict and permanently diminishes the value of your business.

However the SP at any given time does not represent risk to you. It does represent market sentiment, but if your analysis of the business is correct then that pessimism can allow you to increase your returns without changing your risk at all.

[mikelee]

A good example of market sentiment might be Xero, which punters adored but institutions disliked due to the business not making any money for most of the time it was on the NZX. But its SP simply took off, all the way to the moon, or should I say Australia, never to return :lol:

[LoungeLizzard]

In what way have the fundamentals of the business changed today relative to, say, a month ago?
EPS, ability to pay dividends, Share price pressure, market sentiment, the HBO contract, re-rating for Insto's and rating companies. All have come together to create a new buzz around SKY.

[mistaTea]

EPS, ability to pay dividends, Share price pressure, market sentiment, the HBO contract, re-rating for Insto's and rating companies. All have come together to create a new buzz around SKY.

Yes, they have affected the 'buzz' (sentiment) but not the risk.

If your analysis of the business was correct then you would have predicted the earning profile correctly and assessed the probability of Sky holding onto key deals etc.

If you calculated that Sky was worth $800M, and managed to buy your shares at a market cap of $500M...then you have nothing to fear with the quoted value dropping to $300M.

In fact, if you back your analysis then you should pray that it falls to $300M so you can grab even more shares and increase your ROI.

[LoungeLizzard]

Yes, they have affected the 'buzz' (sentiment) but not the risk.

If your analysis of the business was correct then you would have predicted the earning profile correctly and assessed the probability of Sky holding onto key deals etc.

If you calculated that Sky was worth $800M, and managed to buy your shares at a market cap of $500M...then you have nothing to fear with the quoted value dropping to $300M.

In fact, if you back your analysis then you should pray that it falls to $300M so you can grab even more shares and increase your ROI.

Risk/ perception of risk are linked to market sentiment. And vice versa. Analsying companies is not just about fundamentals - its about how the market see's those fundamentals. If it is purely about the risk of the SP going down, Sky is a much more solid business now than it was a month or so ago. That is reflected in how it is viewed by the market. You may think nothing has changed but I'm afraid the market doesn't agree with you. And the market determines the SP and the "risk" profile accordingly.
And incidentally how would anyone be able to predict whether SKY could hold onto the HBO team by analysing it's risk profile. That decision has more to do with HBO than Sky.

[Balance]

Yes, they have affected the 'buzz' (sentiment) but not the risk.

If your analysis of the business was correct then you would have predicted the earning profile correctly and assessed the probability of Sky holding onto key deals etc.

If you calculated that Sky was worth $800M, and managed to buy your shares at a market cap of $500M...then you have nothing to fear with the quoted value dropping to $300M.

In fact, if you back your analysis then you should pray that it falls to $300M so you can grab even more shares and increase your ROI.

That's what Warren Buffett do.

Afraid that he is one of a kind however - many try to copy but very few have succeeded.

[mistaTea]

Risk/ perception of risk are linked to market sentiment. And vice versa. Analsying companies is not just about fundamentals - its about how the market see's those fundamentals. If it is purely about the risk of the SP going down, Sky is a much more solid business now than it was a month or so ago. That is reflected in how it is viewed by the market. You may think nothing has changed but I'm afraid the market doesn't agree with you. And the market determines the SP and the "risk" profile accordingly.


You are essentially saying that those who were buying Sky @280M Market Cap were taking more RISK than those who are now buying Sky @370M Market Cap. You've lost me.




And incidentally how would anyone be able to predict whether SKY could hold onto the HBO team by analysing it's risk profile. That decision has more to do with HBO than Sky.


An investor who understands the business would have formed some view of probability around Sky hanging on to the majority of their key contracts or not. In fact, it would be impossible to assess the likelihood of a future earning profile unless you had some notion in mind as to Sky's ability to hold onto key contracts (after all, if Sky have no content deals they have no business). You may not have gotten down to the detail of predicting specific contracts (i.e HBO, NZR etc). But you will have (or should have) formed a view on Sky's continuing ability to win important deals.

I would always argue that the risk you face as a business owner has nothing to do with market sentiment at any point in time and is all to do with how your business is performing, facing down threats, allocating capital, making decisions that benefit the shareholder etc.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

I would say the HBO renewal has removed significant risk for some of Sky. The NEON service would have taken a big blow content wise without that deal. Would have been the equivalent of sky sport losing the Rugby rights. Not a fatal blow, but makes the value proposition much less for many and would have led to either a loss of subscribers or a large drop in pricing power (or both).

to elaborate further: NEON is one of sky’s core growth hopes, so if that stumbled it would be in bad shape. Right now after the HBO/Warner’s renewal I think it looks fine for a few years.

[mistaTea]

I would say the HBO renewal has removed significant risk for some of Sky.

That will also depend on how much Sky paid to retain (and expand) the HBO deal. I think it (as well as the Viacom deal and others) definitely provides more evidence to those of us who figured that, on the balance of probabilities, Sky will still be able to win important deals.

But I don't see the SP as a particularly helpful tool in determining risk to the long term business owner. If you have assessed the business correctly, and purchased with a margin of safety - your risk is almost zero (regardless of movements in quoted value).

[LoungeLizzard]

You are essentially saying that those who were buying Sky @280M Market Cap were taking more RISK than those who are now buying Sky @370M Market Cap. You've lost me.



An investor who understands the business would have formed some view of probability around Sky hanging on to the majority of their key contracts or not. In fact, it would be impossible to assess the likelihood of a future earning profile unless you had some notion in mind as to Sky's ability to hold onto key contracts (after all, if Sky have no content deals they have no business). You may not have gotten down to the detail of predicting specific contracts (i.e HBO, NZR etc). But you will have (or should have) formed a view on Sky's continuing ability to win important deals.

I would always argue that the risk you face as a business owner has nothing to do with market sentiment at any point in time and is all to do with how your business is performing, facing down threats, allocating capital, making decisions that benefit the shareholder etc.

I agree with your last paragraph - and that is my point. The events of the last month have strengthened all the aspects of the business you mention. And the market has reacted accordingly. I don't buy on market sentiment but in this case, Sky has been out of favour for so long, because the fundamentals of the business were fragile. Those things have changed - deals have been secured, the prospect of dividends returning is now a possibility, the rebalance sheet is clean, and subscribers no's a re stabilising. That to me - and apparently the market agrees - translates to a lower risk profile and an improving SP. There may be twists in the tale yet but I am far more comfortable being a SKY investor than I was only 1 month ago, let alone 1 year ago.

[mistaTea]

I agree with your last paragraph - and that is my point. The events of the last month have strengthened all the aspects of the business you mention. And the market has reacted accordingly. I don't buy on market sentiment but in this case, Sky has been out of favour for so long, because the fundamentals of the business were fragile. Those things have changed - deals have been secured, the prospect of dividends returning is now a possibility, the rebalance sheet is clean, and subscribers no's a re stabilising. That to me - and apparently the market agrees - translates to a lower risk profile and an improving SP. There may be twists in the tale yet but I am far more comfortable being a SKY investor than I was only 1 month ago, let alone 1 year ago.

So if market sentiment = risk assessment…

Shareholders currently buying around $2/share are taking less risk than a month ago when investors were buying at $1.50/share (adjusting for consolidation) because they signed one more contract out of hundreds?

I should also point out that after the HBO deal was signed the SP didn’t actually move very much. A little bump and then it fell again.

The SP only started to increase once Osmium declared their interest (and seem to have kept buying).

So I am dubious that the resent SP increase is anything to do with Mr Market’s sudden reassessment of Sky’s underlying business prospects at all.

Unless, of course, it was just that the market was overly pessimistic before and this is a mere correction of a previous error.

Either way, it is not a resounding argument for equating risk with movements in SP (volatility).

[winner69]

Either way, it is not a resounding argument for equating risk with movements in SP (volatility).

In some schools volatility is a measure of risk

[winner69]

Talking of risk I see Yahoo shows SKT Beta (5Y monthly) as 1


That’s interesting

[mistaTea]

In some schools volatility is a measure of risk

In the school of EMT, sure.

But if we subscribed to that then there would be zero point in even trying to seek superior long term gains by selecting individual businesses.

In the case of Sky, you would be telling someone that they are much better off buying Sky at $2/share instead of $1.50/share in order to reduce volatility (but call it 'risk' instead)

To me that just seems like madness.

[LoungeLizzard]

So if market sentiment = risk assessment…

Shareholders currently buying around $2/share are taking less risk than a month ago when investors were buying at $1.50/share (adjusting for consolidation) because they signed one more contract out of hundreds?

I should also point out that after the HBO deal was signed the SP didn’t actually move very much. A little bump and then it fell again.

The SP only started to increase once Osmium declared their interest (and seem to have kept buying).

So I am dubious that the resent SP increase is anything to do with Mr Market’s sudden reassessment of Sky’s underlying business prospects at all.

Unless, of course, it was just that the market was overly pessimistic before and this is a mere correction of a previous error.

Either way, it is not a resounding argument for equating risk with movements in SP (volatility).

From what media experts were saying - the HBO was a big deal. Content is everything and it would have been a very bad signal if SKY couldn't have wrapped up a deal. I'm pretty sure if HBO decided against the deal, we would have seen SKY shares taking another beating.
There are other factors- you don't mention EPS, currently at 27c per share, more if SKY use the property sale for a share buyback. All of a sudden SKY are in a position to pay dividends again - which is in itself a risk mitigator. Who would have picked that prior to share consolidation? That's the sort of business fundamental that most investors look for and drives the SP up.

[Hawkeye]

Did old mate end up selling all his shares? I haven't seen a bunch of memes for a while.

[mistaTea]

From what media experts were saying - the HBO was a big deal. Content is everything and it would have been a very bad signal if SKY couldn't have wrapped up a deal. I'm pretty sure if HBO decided against the deal, we would have seen SKY shares taking another beating.
There are other factors- you don't mention EPS, currently at 27c per share, more if SKY use the property sale for a share buyback. All of a sudden SKY are in a position to pay dividends again - which is in itself a risk mitigator. Who would have picked that prior to share consolidation? That's the sort of business fundamental that most investors look for and drives the SP up.

But the earning profile and guidance has not changed one bit since the HBO deal was signed…?

The intention to sell the property has been known for months - and buybacks are well understood to be a possible use of the funds received from a sale.

[LoungeLizzard]

But the earning profile and guidance has not changed one bit since the HBO deal was signed…?

You're reaching now. The HBO was about protecting what they had - content/subscribers - it may not bring in very many new subscribers . As I said it the market would have reacted very badly if they had lost that deal. The last month is has been about consolidation in more ways than one. Sky now looks like an investable company - witness the interest from insto's. Your skepticism may turn out to be right, but my feeling is that the fabled inflexion point has been reached.

[mistaTea]

You're reaching now. The HBO was about protecting what they had - content/subscribers - it may not bring in very many new subscribers . As I said it the market would have reacted very badly if they had lost that deal. The last month is has been about consolidation in more ways than one. Sky now looks like an investable company - witness the interest from insto's. Your skepticism may turn out to be right, but my feeling is that the fabled inflexion point has been reached.

Reaching? But the Earning Guidance has not changed?

People who have read my posts know that I am far from sceptical about the future prospects. I do think the HBO deal was great and my analysis of Sky leads me to believe that it is still significantly undervalued.

The point I make is that, on this thread, a huge amount of emphasis seems to be given to what the SP is every hour. And investors who are happy to continue holding seem ‘happier’ now that the SP has risen significantly…because they are wealthier on paper, but it means it will be more expensive now if they wish to increase their holding.
And if they are holding still it must logically be because they think Sky is still undervalued (otherwise surely they would sell and move on to the next target?). And if they think Sky is undervalued they should want to buy more of it…in which case the recent SP increase is a terrible outcome for them.

I have enjoyed the banter though - it is always interesting to see how different people view stock prices, risk, volatility etc.

And we are quite likely talking at cross purposes on a couple of the issues 😅

[nztx]

Did old mate end up selling all his shares? I haven't seen a bunch of memes for a while.


Probably busy away planning the Grand upcoming $2.50 Celebration Party .. ;)

these things take a lot of organising from a distance, when the locality is locked down
for all the finer details to fall in place, once ready - you know .. ;)

[jimdog31]

Currently Watching "billions" on Neon, Quality show about insider trading...... Anyone on here think neon's content is twice as good as netflix?

[mistaTea]

Currently Watching "billions" on Neon, Quality show about insider trading...... Anyone on here think neon's content is twice as good as netflix?

That is a fantastic show.

NEON sh1ts all over NETFLIX in terms of content.

NETFLIX is still the better app though - although the new NEON has closed that gap a lot.

[jimdog31]

That is a fantastic show.

NEON sh1ts all over NETFLIX in terms of content.

NETFLIX is still the better app though - although the new NEON has closed that gap a lot.

I still think over time content will outweigh the app differences. I struggle to find something I want to watch on Netflix, so spend way too much time browsing (maybe that's why they've made it easier) I look for a show on neon and find something I want to watch I half the time.

I'm eagerly awaiting the STB as I'm going all in (currently no traditional SKY)

[mistaTea]

I still think over time content will outweigh the app differences. I struggle to find something I want to watch on Netflix, so spend way too much time browsing (maybe that's why they've made it easier) I look for a show on neon and find something I want to watch I half the time.

I'm eagerly awaiting the STB as I'm going all in (currently no traditional SKY)

Yeah I am looking forward to the new STB too.

For existing subs it will be an exponentially better experience.

Will be interesting if it generates much in the way of new subs though.

Searching across platforms will definitely be easier, but not sure if that advantage will be enough to get a lot of brand new subs to pay Sky prices.

[ratkin]

That is a fantastic show.

NEON sh1ts all over NETFLIX in terms of content.

NETFLIX is still the better app though - although the new NEON has closed that gap a lot.

Amazon Prime is my favourite, dirt cheap and The man in the high castle has kept me entertained for a month

[Habits]

Needed the dosh and sold half a million shares today... it would have been before the cons so only 50k. Got a good price too

[Habits]

Lot of margin calls happening lately.

Not on me though Xogg, I owned outright. How about yourself

[Chinesekiwi]

For sure Neon overall has superior content.




Currently Watching "billions" on Neon, Quality show about insider trading...... Anyone on here think neon's content is twice as good as netflix?

[winner69]

. "………………

I have enjoyed the banter though - it is always interesting to see how different people view stock prices, risk, volatility etc.

And we are quite likely talking at cross purposes on a couple of the issues ��

Agree …..everybody’s definition of risk seems different ….so much so ‘risk’ or ‘risky’ or ‘riskier’ are just words that sound cool without having to really understanding what risk is ……like coming up with something that justifies ones actions

[Animeart]

To make best use of Netflix, you really need to take advantage of their global library. I'd struggle too if I only watch what comes out of the US. Been watching a lot of K-Drama and Japanese anime lately :-)

[winner69]

A bloody good book on risk is Against the Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk by Peter Bernstein

Very readable and a must read for me every few years

Lock down blues …worse things to do …digital downloads available

[mistaTea]

A bloody good book on risk is Against the Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk by Peter Bernstein

Very readable and a must read for me every few years

Lick down blues …worse things to do …digital downloads available

Thanks for the recommendation mate. Just grabbed a copy.

Now then, you keep those lick down blues to yourself!

[LaserEyeKiwi]

That is a fantastic show.

NEON sh1ts all over NETFLIX in terms of content.

NETFLIX is still the better app though - although the new NEON has closed that gap a lot.

If I was forced to choose just one between Netflix & Neon, hands down it would be Netflix, not even a close decision. Netflix has a lot of ”chaff” (content not worth watching) but they produce so much that even with a 10%/90% good/bad quality ratio they still end up with an extremely large amount of good content. The only caveat is that some of their best content is in foreign languages which means if someone doesn’t like reading subtitles then there selection is much reduced.

Thankfully we don’t live in a world where we have to choose just one, and so I have a total of 6 different paid streaming services (Netflix/Neon/Disney+/AppleTV+/AmazonPrime/SkySportNow), with a few more free ones (TVNZ/TV3/YouTube/Bloomberg).

in terms of quality ratio, I think AppleTV+ has by far the highest, but they still have a limited amount of shows as they grow purely from original content. Reminds me of HBO 10 years ago, but with a far bigger budget.

Disney+ suffers from the same: very good new original content, but only a small amount of new shows although that has gotten better since they added the “star” sub-brand which carries all the Hulu & Fox/FX shows. (Of course it’s amazing back catalogue of content makes it a no brainer subscription).

NEON is good of course, primarily because of the HBO shows. It’s movies selection has gotten pretty rotten though. This last weekend they were promoting “rogue” as their big Sunday premier. Oh my god what a stinker. All too familiar now days.

As I said above Netflix has an amazing amount of good content, but you need to hunt it out, and if you have a rather niche taste then you might struggle. My wife and I binge at least 1 series a week on Netflix, so it’s not hyperbolic to say we watch at least 50 shows on Netflix annually, and probably a similar amount of movies.

In terms of the actual app - I think Netflix & Disney have the best navigation, but none of them are perfect (which might be impossible to achieve given they are dealing with tens of thousands of shows/movies). I find Amazon & Neon, skysportnow have the most issues with stream quality/stability.

in terms of best value, I have to give that award to TVNZ - some excellent international content on there and it is of course free.

[mistaTea]

Let's hope the shares keep tumbling down.

Will make it easier for The Board to buyback a significant amount of shares if they can get them cheaper.

I was going to wait until the property sale before I looked at grabbing more, but if things take a tumble now I might not be able to help myself. Property announcement or no property announcement.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

https://i.imgur.com/8766rTD.jpg

lol yes.

still a lot cheaper than my previous skybox monthly cost (by about half)

[mistaTea]

lol yes.

still a lot cheaper than my previous skybox monthly cost (by about half)

Sure, but navigating 6 different streaming apps is arse. You are probably saving $1/day max - not really life changing money and I would argue that you have introduced much more hassle into your life each day for that $1 saving.

This is where the new STB will be very helpful.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Sure, but navigating 6 different streaming apps is arse. You are probably saving $1/day max - not really life changing money and I would argue that you have introduced much more hassle into your life each day for that $1 saving.

This is where the new STB will be very helpful.

eh? I was paying almost $120 a month for my skybox subscription.

now I’m paying:

Netlfix is “free” with spark broadband
AppleTV+ is “free” with the Apple services bundle I’m on.
Amazon prime is $4.49c a month
Disney+ was $99 on a 1 year deal ($8.25c a month)
Neon is $12 a month through Spark
SkySport I’m paying equivalent of $33.33 a month (annual plan).

so I’m paying half as much, and getting far more content.

With Neon & SkySportNow I’m getting 95% of the content I watched for only $45 a month. Now I’m also getting all the extra content from the other 4 services as well (which dwarves what I was getting from skybox) for less than $15 a month.

in terms of experience - I view everything through Apple TV box, with the AppleTv+ app as aggregator for the services that support it (AppleTv+/Disney+/AmazonPrime). NEON & Netflix don’t integrate, but you can quick access shows you are watching on them from the AppleTV box Home Screen

[LoungeLizzard]

Reaching? But the Earning Guidance has not changed?

People who have read my posts know that I am far from sceptical about the future prospects. I do think the HBO deal was great and my analysis of Sky leads me to believe that it is still significantly undervalued.

The point I make is that, on this thread, a huge amount of emphasis seems to be given to what the SP is every hour. And investors who are happy to continue holding seem ‘happier’ now that the SP has risen significantly…because they are wealthier on paper, but it means it will be more expensive now if they wish to increase their holding.
And if they are holding still it must logically be because they think Sky is still undervalued (otherwise surely they would sell and move on to the next target?). And if they think Sky is undervalued they should want to buy more of it…in which case the recent SP increase is a terrible outcome for them.

I have enjoyed the banter though - it is always interesting to see how different people view stock prices, risk, volatility etc.

And we are quite likely talking at cross purposes on a couple of the issues 😅

Yeah, good debate but cross purposes on whether we are talking about actual risk or the perception of risk. The latter is in the eye of the beholder. I still see Sky as more investable now than a month ago, but that's just me (and currently, the market).

I like the small cap, green shoots type of business where the risk and reward is higher. Not that Sky is a green shoots business but it has worked it's way to become small cap. ;)

I was in A2 not long after they listed and more recently in PEB which has gone from 15c to $1.45 in 15 months. Sometimes if you wait for the stars to align you miss out on the fun of the chase and the biggest pay-outs.

[mistaTea]

eh? I was paying almost $120 a month for my skybox subscription.

now I’m paying:

Netlfix is “free” with spark broadband
AppleTV+ is “free” with the Apple services bundle I’m on.
Amazon prime is $4.49c a month
Disney+ was $99 on a 1 year deal ($8.25c a month)
Neon is $12 a month through Spark
SkySport I’m paying equivalent of $33.33 a month (annual plan).

so I’m paying half as much, and getting far more content.

With Neon & SkySportNow I’m getting 95% of the content I watched for only $45 a month. Now I’m also getting all the extra content from the other 4 services as well (which dwarves what I was getting from skybox) for less than $15 a month.

in terms of experience - I view everything through Apple TV box, with the AppleTv+ app as aggregator for the services that support it (AppleTv+/Disney+/AmazonPrime). NEON & Netflix don’t integrate, but you can quick access shows you are watching on them from the AppleTV box Home Screen

Ultimately your adoption of Sky's streaming services is good for them them because it highlights where the growing demand is (and therefore helps them work out how much more to invest in streaming).

You are also getting the content you want, for a lower price. Fantastic.

Streaming is cheaper for Sky too. So, even though the 'top line' revenue (your $45/month vs STB ARPU of ~$80/month) generated is lower, they don't have to pay for satellite infrastructure, STB's, technicians to go around doing installations and disconnections. In fact, even staff numbers required to answer customer queries will be minimal as most people can self serve for everything they need. Only a subset of their total content is on NEON, so content costs are also cheaper. Also good for Sky in the long term.

Don't kid yourself about getting netflix for "free" though. You are getting a discount on your netflix, but you are still paying about $14/month. Not sure how "free" the apple deal is.

So, all in, you are still paying around $72/month - a saving of $48/month. And who doesn't love a decent saving? Though, that still only equates to about $1.58/day (one third of the cost of a decent coffee in Auckland).

Still a good choice for you, because it doesn't sound like you watched much of the content that the extra $1.58/day gave you. But let's be honest here, the 'savings' you are making are small change.

I too am a fan of Apple TV (and use one myself for streaming). They have made some progress in sorting out the cross-service aggregation problem, however they (and everyone else) are limited by licensing restrictions for most services.

For a large number of customers who do still enjoy consuming Sky's broad range of content, and are happy to pay an extra $1-$2 per day than they would if they just subscribed to multiple streaming platforms...the new STB will be a much better product for them than Apple TV.

I am one of those customers.

[mistaTea]

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/netflix-acquires-roald-dahls-company-to-bring-new-films-and-shows-to-streaming-service-12414156

[airedale]

In today's news Amazon says that it will spend 7.5 BILLION building data centres in Auckland. I think that Sky have a very suitable building site for that sort of money.

[mistaTea]

In today's news Amazon says that it will spend 7.5 BILLION building data centres in Auckland. I think that Sky have a very suitable building site for that sort of money.

Yeah, I'll take $7.5B for the campus no worries.

I will even be prepared to cut Amazon a break if they ask nicely and make it NZ$7.5B instead if US$7.5B.

[mikelee]

Yeah, I'll take $7.5B for the campus no worries.

I will even be prepared to cut Amazon a break if they ask nicely and make it NZ$7.5B instead if US$7.5B.

I know how people like nice round figures, so will tell the Board to take NZ$7B with life time subscriptions thrown in. :)

[mistaTea]

I know how people like nice round figures, so will tell the Board to take NZ$7B with life time subscriptions thrown in. :)

Hell, if they are REALLY good and lock this up without delay I would even be prepared to give them a 90% Prompt Payment Discount…

[jimdog31]

SOB!!! http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/KMD/379704/355428.pdf Just spent $300k on KMD. Cmon man!

[mistaTea]

ORCON IPO

MIRA rebrands Vocus NZ as Orcon Group, banks kick off IPO

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/mira-rebrands-vocus-nz-as-orcon-group-banks-kick-off-ipo-20210923-p58u1p



Of course if you were following Ogg's post this is old news.

Vocus NZ would have been a value buy at NZ$500M for SNT. But if the range they are working to is $NZ605M-$755M then they would have wanted at least $700M in a private sale.

That is a lot of money to pay for a business that is a distant fourth in the broadband rankings and does not have a mobile network of its own. Would owning such a business generate a minimum of $700M more value than the current wholesale broadband arrangement will generate? That is the question The Board would have considered, and the answer is no.

I am a big fan of the whole VocusNZ-Sky merger idea...but as I say, the price has to be right. Sky will become a telco one day I am sure, but to overpay significantly for any asset does not benefit Sky shareholders.

I like the closer ties we have with Warner. Massive amount of premium content secured, and a deal to collaborate together for Sky NZ Original content.

We will earn plenty of money over the next decade at least.

[mistaTea]

mistaTea's dream of a Sky/Vocus is now road kill!

To be fair, “The Dream” has been dead for months now.

[mistaTea]

I̶n̶f̶r̶a̶t̶i̶l̶
D̶i̶s̶c̶o̶v̶e̶r̶y̶
T̶w̶o̶ ̶D̶e̶g̶r̶e̶e̶s̶
V̶o̶c̶u̶s̶
Comcast

The only deal left on the table, agreed?

Nah, Foxtel has gotta be part of the mix of conspiracy theories.

Creation of a ‘super aggregator’!

[mistaTea]

Foxtel IPO is still on though?

Is it?

Sky should pursue this possibility with them.

The combined entity would have way more bargaining power with the rights holders.

I would be open to it. Would be crazy if the board haven’t at least considered the idea.

Unless and until then though, just keen to see how much we get for the campus (not much by the looks of things) and how the board will return the money to us.

[jimdog31]

I̶n̶f̶r̶a̶t̶i̶l̶
D̶i̶s̶c̶o̶v̶e̶r̶y̶
T̶w̶o̶ ̶D̶e̶g̶r̶e̶e̶s̶
V̶o̶c̶u̶s̶
Comcast

The only deal left on the table, agreed?

NZME merger?

[mistaTea]

NZME merger?

Osmium might like that idea.

[jimdog31]

Osmium might like that idea.

My bet is they more than like it. P/e 101 is bundle companies up to get a higher multiple.

[mistaTea]

My bet is they more than like it. P/e 101 is bundle companies up to get a higher multiple.

So long as the relative values used for a merger make sense, I am open to it.

[jimdog31]

My bet is they more than like it. P/e 101 is bundle companies up to get a higher multiple.

On osmium, i believe we will see their next round of buying if there's NZD/USD currency weakness.

[mistaTea]

Foxtel IPO is still on though?


https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/foxtel-makes-key-executive-switch-as-company-mulls-ipo-20210815-p58iua.html

They have the exact same challenges as Sky. I doubt they would do very well in an IPO...but clearly Rupert and Telstra see an end game where the business is listed.

Could be an opportunity here for Sky, or maybe not.

A Super Aggregator would have a better chance though. I like Foxtel's new STB too - it looks sexy.

[mistaTea]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12474199

8 - 11 times EBITDA for Vocus when Spark only gets around 9!

Amazing.

[jimdog31]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12474199

8 - 11 times EBITDA for Vocus when Spark only gets around 9!

Amazing.

What are we currently at?

[mikelee]

the prospect of similar high dividend yield would be very tempting then, especially in this low interest rate climate

[mistaTea]

What are we currently at?


Sky TV? Low end of projected EBITDA is $110M for FY22. So we are currently sitting at 3.2x EBITDA. About 4.5x Adjusted EBITDA (IFSR16)...but then you would need to make a similar adjustment for Orcon Group...which would probably push their adjusted EBITDA range to 9x-12x.

Insanity.

[jimdog31]

Sky TV? Low end of projected EBITDA is $110M for FY22. So we are currently sitting at 3.2x EBITDA. About 4.5x Adjusted EBITDA (IFSR16)...but then you would need to make a similar adjustment for Orcon Group...which would probably push their adjusted EBITDA range to 9x-12x.

Insanity.

So effectively the market is still pricing Sky as if it will be out of business within a few years. that is insane.

[mistaTea]

So effectively the market is still pricing Sky as if it will be out of business within a few years. that is insane.

Yes, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

And that is ultimately why no tie up between Vocus and Sky could be possible.

The market is downright effusive towards Vocus if those multiples are anything to go by, and still down on Sky...even though Sky is likely to produce far more cash than Vocus for the forseeable future.

[jimdog31]

Sky TV? Low end of projected EBITDA is $110M for FY22. So we are currently sitting at 3.2x EBITDA. About 4.5x Adjusted EBITDA (IFSR16)...but then you would need to make a similar adjustment for Orcon Group...which would probably push their adjusted EBITDA range to 9x-12x.

Insanity.

The sooner we become a telco the better. A merger with Nzme could help accelerate this. Sky would have endless free advertising options galore accross differrent mediums, radio, web, tv. Think how 2 degrees got that market share? great advertising with Rhys Darby.

Thats how I’d do it. Become a media conglomerate, tack on telco, bundle up energy. Economies of scale, higher multiples applied.

The latest CFO appointment would help with this strategy.

Hell, change the name to something with less bad juju and more marketability.

Imagine one company that you got the following from

- Data/Internet
- Entertainment
- Music
- Phone
- Utilities
- News
- Sports

This company would have the stickiest customers imaginable.

[mistaTea]

The sooner we become a telco the better. A merger with Nzme could help accelerate this. You have advertising options galore accross differrent mediums, radio, web, tv. Think how 2 degrees got that market share? great advertising with Rhys Darby.

Thats how I’d do it. Become a media conglomerate, tack on telco, bundle up energy. Economies of scale, higher multiples applied.

The latest CFO appointment would help with this strategy.

I vote jimdog for Chairman!

[mistaTea]

A merger with Nzme could help accelerate this. You have advertising options galore accross differrent mediums, radio, web, tv.

The relative values for NZME and Sky TV and looking a lot better now. $187M vs $352M...which is probably a reasonable reflection of each companies underlying Owner Earnings (proportionally).

You could do a merger right now just using equity, no cash needed, and the new combined entity would be worth more than $539M ($187M + $352M)...with Owner Earnings probably sitting at around $100M for FY22, and then growing significantly after that once Sky finish the major spending on broadband and the new STB.

Combined EBITDA would probably be around $180M in FY22 with large scope to grow. Even a 5x multiple would be $900M.

Not crazy to think that this is what Osmium would want...though they would probably like to own a bigger share of Sky first to reap maximum rewards from their ownership in both Sky and NZME.

But we also know that Sky TV conspiracy theories never seem to work out - so definitely not trying to make any firm predictions here.

[jimdog31]

The relative values for NZME and Sky TV and looking a lot better now. $187M vs $352M...which is probably a reasonable reflection of each companies underlying Owner Earnings (proportionally).

You could do a merger right now just using equity, no cash needed, and the new combined entity would be worth more than $539M ($187M + $352M)...with Owner Earnings probably sitting at around $100M for FY22, and then growing significantly after that once Sky finish the major spending on broadband and the new STB.

Combined EBITDA would probably be around $180M in FY22 with large scope to grow. Even a 5x multiple would be $900M.

Not crazy to think that this is what Osmium would want...though they would probably like to own a bigger share of Sky first to reap maximum rewards from their ownership in both Sky and NZME.

But we also know that Sky TV conspiracy theories never seem to work out - so definitely not trying to make any firm predictions here.

I hear you on the conspiracy side.

Although, its hard to not entertain these thoughts based on ACTUAL sph disclosures….

[mistaTea]

I hear you on the conspiracy side.

Although, its hard to not entertain these thoughts based on ACTUAL sph disclosures….

Yeah agreed...of all the theories this one is the most plausible I think, given Osmium. These guys aren't fools.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

The telco merger has been debunked.

The Vodafone/Sky merger was the only chance it would happened.

This is why AT&T is spinning off Warner.

Even Marko spat on the idea.

It's dead face it. Sky will never be a telco.

Sky will join the Comcast family. That's it's home. The adoption papers are being drawn up now.

Just wait. Everything will be fine by Christmas.

disagree with this as Comcast is primarily a telco (americas largest broadband provider) - and going by the logic of what you just said they would have no desire to buy another content provider (especially after the post acquisition skyUK earnings tanked) that would be the opposite of what you just pointed out that AT&T is doing.

[mistaTea]

disagree with this as Comcast is primarily a telco (americas largest broadband provider) - and going by the logic of what you just said they would have no desire to buy another content provider (especially after the post acquisition skyUK earnings tanked) that would be the opposite of what you just pointed out that AT&T is doing.

Don’t let your facts get in the way of theory mate!

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/comcast-stock-discovery-warnermedia-deal-impact-1234955676/amp/

Interesting write up. Note how it also says Comcast don’t want to buy media companies outright but are more open to JV type arrangements.

I believe they approached SNT with a JV type offer (not a takeover) but the offer was not favourable enough to SNT shareholders to go ahead.

They don’t want to buy Sky outright, so any hopes of some kind of deal with Comcast at this junction are unrealistic.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Don’t let your facts get in the way of theory mate!

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/comcast-stock-discovery-warnermedia-deal-impact-1234955676/amp/

Interesting write up. Note how it also says Comcast don’t want to buy media companies outright but are more open to JV type arrangements.

I believe they approached SNT with a JV type offer (not a takeover) but the offer was not favourable enough to SNT shareholders to go ahead.

They don’t want to buy Sky outright, so any hopes of some kind of deal with Comcast at this junction are unrealistic.

i just don’t think there is anything that Sky has that Comcast would want. As referenced in that article, if their aim is to acquire or partner with media companies to enhance its content library for a worldwide streaming Platform - Sky NZ has zero content that fits that bill. The only content it produces is based on intellectual property owned by others (the sport content), it has no intellectual property content of its own that could be added to a worldwide streaming platform (SKY UK on the other hand had lots of intellectual property production). Furthermore - sky’s current content licensing with the likes of discovery & warners/hbo would likely be at risk for renewal down the line if Comcast owned skyNZ. The best that could be hoped for is status quo.

[mistaTea]

i just don’t think there is anything that Sky has that Comcast would want. As referenced in that article, if their aim is to acquire or partner with media companies to enhance its content library for a worldwide streaming Platform - Sky NZ has zero content that fits that bill. The only content it produces is based on intellectual property owned by others (the sport content), it has no intellectual property content of its own that could be added to a worldwide streaming platform. Furthermore - sky’s current content licensing with the likes of discovery & warners/hbo would likely be at risk for renewal down the line if Comcast owned skybox. The best that could be hoped for is status quo.


Well yes and no.

For the right price, a JV with SNT could still be favorable to Comcast because it would mean it has access to Sky's large customer base and would get a share of total revenue generated. They would stand to earn more money from SNT that way over time than it gets from the NBCUniversal deal it currently has.

While the SP was low and Sky was vulnerable, it seems they did make an approach of some sort. But it was opportunistic, low ball and there was no way a friendly deal would be done.

It is very clear though that Comcast are not that interested in full blown takeovers...and whatever discussions they may have had with SNT are in the distant past now. No real cause for continued speculation that they are going to make a play for Sky.

[mistaTea]

The JV idea came about because Sky was valued at over $1b.

Comcast got it's fingers burnt over paying for Sky UK.

Doing a JV now is pointless. Comcast market cap has doubled since then. Sky is worth pennies now.

Better to buy it outright. JV complete waste of time.

So even though there are direct quotes from Comcast in recent media appearances that they have very little interest in outright takeovers, and prefer JVs...

you still just reject it out of hand?

Interesting.

[mistaTea]

Just lol.


Just lol bro.

Will leave it to LaserEyeKiwi and jimdog31 to pick this one apart :t_up:

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Comcast has over 70 million customers and ~$110 Billion USD revenue. An acquisition of Sky NZ would be a sub 1% addition to its metrics and very low on its radar I would say (unless it was dirt cheap, which it no longer is - and even then the regulatory hassles are probably judged a waste of its time and resources). If it could bundle up Foxtel & Sky NZ it might look like a deal of meaningful size worthy of consideration perhaps (and of course foxtel alone would also be a better target for Comcast).

[mistaTea]

Comcast has over 70 million customers and ~$110 Billion USD revenue. An acquisition of Sky NZ would be a sub 1% addition to its metrics and very low on its radar I would say (unless it was dirt cheap, which it no longer is - and even then the regulatory hassles are probably judged a waste of its time and resources). If it could bundle up Foxtel & Sky NZ it might look like a deal of meaningful size worthy of consideration perhaps (and of course foxtel alone would also be a better target for Comcast).

Amen brother. You say true and I say thank ya.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Just lol.

It's the exact opposite.

They say they're interested in takeovers in overseas markets.

They say they're more interested in bolt on acquisitions.

They say that Sky UK was a great buy.

Just lol bro.

Are you expecting the people that were responsible for purchasing SkY UK for a vastly overinflated price who then watched its profits tank to come out and say “nah we screwed the pooch on that one - it was a stupid decision”. Or do you expect them to try and spin it as “it’s not about the profits” (despite using that as the original purchase rationale) “the brand name alone is worth heaps” like they appear to be doing now.

Don’t get me wrong - I would love it if they weren’t put off at all from that purchase and swooped in to buy Sky at 50c a share. I’m not investing on that basis though.

[mistaTea]

Don’t get me wrong - I would love it if they weren’t put off at all from that purchase and swooped in to buy Sky at 50c a share. I’m not investing on that basis though.

God I hope you mean $5/share!

[jimdog31]

What, the werido with 10 Netflix subscriptions and the nutter with more shares then everyone here combined.

Just lol.

Sticks and stones bud �� as previously noted, I’m relatively comfortable with my holding!

Just for the record, I’m not sure i/me/you/we can lose…. comcast takeover = happy…. nzme merger = happy…… absolutey nothing and BAU = happy…….. building sale = happy……

Must be a bat ship crazy nutter that takes a large position when you can’t lose.

Happy being that nutter. GLTAH!

[nztx]

What, the werido with 10 Netflix subscriptions and the nutter with more shares then everyone here combined.

Just lol.

hang on a moment -- a few pages back it came out that you had more shares than all the rest us put together .. :)

Are you sure that the pre-Consol & Post-Consol numbers didn't get mixed up somewhere ? ;)

[LaserEyeKiwi]

God I hope you mean $5/share!

ha ha yes - old habit.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Interested to know why you're invested in Sky?

Do you actually believe this company is sustainable by itself?

Entered a position as I thought it was deeply undervalued from both a remaining independent operation perspective and as an attractive takeover target. Now it’s nowhere near as undervalued, but still opportunity for good returns if dividend resumes or a private equity takeover emerged. I was rather disheartened following the last earnings result, but since then the market has woken up a bit.

I still think though they should split the company in two and separate the cash cow satellite business from the content rights and streaming products.

[peat]

Right now
AB’s vs Boks

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SKY!

[RGR367]

Right now
AB’s vs Boks

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SKY!

Got no SKY but watching it somehow via zorro stream :cool:

[winner69]

PANTHERS leadIng STORM

[winner69]

PANTHERS v RABBITOHS in final next week

EPIC

[Sideshow Bob]

PANTHERS v ROOSTERS in final next week

EPIC

**cough cough**

Bunnies vs Panthers in the Grand Final

Roosters got smashed by Manly last week….

[mistaTea]

Right now
AB’s vs Boks

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SKY!

This match is a lot closer than the commentary leading up to it suggested!

[mistaTea]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/126457928/spark-sport-picks-up-rights-for-united-rugby-championship

Haha, man Spark will buy anything so long as it is sport.

The viewership for this in NZ will be so damn low. Only a fanatical rugby head would stay up to watch these teams play. The Saffas being part of the competition isn't going to be a massive draw card either for most.

I hardly call this inroads in getting rugby back on their menu. I am just relieved Sky didn't win the rights! Hopefully we didn't even bid for them.


However, with the inclusion of the four big South African teams, the United Rugby Championship threatens to rival Super Rugby Pacific and the English and French leagues to be the premier club competition in the world.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. On what planet will kiwi rugby fans ditch SR Pacific in favour of this tournament?

Good on ya Jeff. Keep bidding for this kind of content...it will mean you have less money to throw around for the important rights :t_up:

[Not The Chosen One]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/126457928/spark-sport-picks-up-rights-for-united-rugby-championship

Haha, man Spark will buy anything so long as it is sport.

The viewership for this in NZ will be so damn low. Only a fanatical rugby head would stay up to watch these teams play. The Saffas being part of the competition isn't going to be a massive draw card either for most.

I hardly call this inroads in getting rugby back on their menu. I am just relieved Sky didn't win the rights! Hopefully we didn't even bid for them.



LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. On what planet will kiwi rugby fans ditch SR Pacific in favour of this tournament?

Good on ya Jeff. Keep bidding for this kind of content...it will mean you have less money to throw around for the important rights :t_up:

I thought the same when I first heard about it and judging by the few comments on that article, everyone seems to agree. I don't even think the South African teams will be a drawcard considering how poor they were in Super Rugby for a long time. Hopefully Spark pay big money for this 12s competition that Steve Hansen must be being paid for to talk up

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/126315704/why-steve-hansen-believes-world-12s-will-be-irresistible

[RTM]

I thought the same when I first heard about it and judging by the few comments on that article, everyone seems to agree. I don't even think the South African teams will be a drawcard considering how poor they were in Super Rugby for a long time. Hopefully Spark pay big money for this 12s competition that Steve Hansen must be being paid for to talk up

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/126315704/why-steve-hansen-believes-world-12s-will-be-irresistible

12's might be the answer for rugby. There are to many players on the field especially defensively.
Really boring if teams are evenly matched. Only a good spectacle if its relatively one sided.

[Not The Chosen One]

12's might be the answer for rugby. There are to many players on the field especially defensively.
Really boring if teams are evenly matched. Only a good spectacle if its relatively one sided.


Although I like rugby, I've always preferred rugby league for various reasons but generally because it's quicker game with less stoppages. It has flaws too such as the almost non existent international game but I'm happy sky have the NRL rights through to 2027.

Rugby has tried to speed up the game with rule changes but until scrums are sorted and the terrible advantage rule gets changed, where a team could play for a few minutes only for a penalty to be given way back in play, it will always be slower.

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/126457928/spark-sport-picks-up-rights-for-united-rugby-championship

Haha, man Spark will buy anything so long as it is sport.

The viewership for this in NZ will be so damn low. Only a fanatical rugby head would stay up to watch these teams play. The Saffas being part of the competition isn't going to be a massive draw card either for most.

I hardly call this inroads in getting rugby back on their menu. I am just relieved Sky didn't win the rights! Hopefully we didn't even bid for them.



LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. On what planet will kiwi rugby fans ditch SR Pacific in favour of this tournament?

Good on ya Jeff. Keep bidding for this kind of content...it will mean you have less money to throw around for the important rights :t_up:

Sky would have an idea on viewership of the English (Rugby) Premiership, the Currie Cup and other highlight packages that they currently show.

Only draw would be to watch former AB's and other Kiwis who are playing over there now.

[mistaTea]

https://www.ft.com/content/eec0e585-dd24-4ef7-9a23-ed2afccb7269

Very interesting development.

[percy]

Sky would have an idea on viewership of the English (Rugby) Premiership, the Currie Cup and other highlight packages that they currently show.

Only draw would be to watch former AB's and other Kiwis who are playing over there now.

Well I certainly could not bear to watch any English Rugby.I have always thought English rugby is the most boring,however after Saturday night I think they have competition from South Africa.
I noted the English ref was very used to unnecessary stoppages,...Could not stop blowing his whistle for more tea breaks. Hopeless.

[winner69]

https://www.ft.com/content/eec0e585-dd24-4ef7-9a23-ed2afccb7269

Very interesting development.

What’s that story about …..can’t access it

[mistaTea]

What’s that story about …..can’t access it

Bizarre, when I entered the link from a google search it let me in to read the article before.

Anyway, just talks about how Sky TV UK are going to be developing their own Smart TVs. They want to further cement their status as the content gatekeepers...NETFLIX already pay big bucks to other companies to ensure their app features prominently on their hardware.

So it seems Sky UK are going beyond the STB to enter the TV market. Using the savings they have made on Sport rights recently to help pay for this new initiative.

Comcast seem happy with their purchase and the future prospects too based on some of the commentary from them.

[Chinesekiwi]

Although I like rugby, I've always preferred rugby league for various reasons but generally because it's quicker game with less stoppages. It has flaws too such as the almost non existent international game but I'm happy sky have the NRL rights through to 2027.

Rugby has tried to speed up the game with rule changes but until scrums are sorted and the terrible advantage rule gets changed, where a team could play for a few minutes only for a penalty to be given way back in play, it will always be slower.

Totally agree although I am a convert from league to Union. League is dead in the water and will never have an international appeal, Rugby stole that march decades ago.

The United Rugby Championship will amount to pretty much nothing so let Spark pay for it - I won't bother to watch.

Rugby needs to get it's game sorted for Christ's sake - scrums gotta become simple like League - they are infuriating And also agree, drop a player or two. A better product here will bring viewers back to SKY. Many of my mates no longer watch much Union it's gotten predictable - this attrition can't help SKY.

I hope SKY didn't bid for the UFC. Give us French rugby domestic tournament - now that's a fine version of the game.

[Chinesekiwi]

Well I certainly could not bear to watch any English Rugby.I have always thought English rugby is the most boring,however after Saturday night I think they have competition from South Africa.
I noted the English ref was very used to unnecessary stoppages,...Could not stop blowing his whistle for more tea breaks. Hopeless.


Yup- you're spot on. I coudda taken that bloody whistle and.......

[mikelee]

NBCUniversal mulls options for streaming service Peacock

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/nbcuniversal-mulls-options-for-streaming-service-peacock-20210926-p58utb.html
(https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/nbcuniversal-mulls-options-for-streaming-service-peacock-20210926-p58utb.html)



Takeover drum is starting to beat!

Comcast looking at partnerships in Australia to roll out Peacock.

It's likely they will do the same in NZ - but there's not a lot of choice other than Sky NZ.

Will Comcast takeover Sky NZ or will they just do a partnership deal?

Either all could be transformative for Sky NZ.

Not long to wait now folks. Hang tight.

Just lol at all the noobs selling today off the back of some sh*tty rugby deal nobody even cares about.


(https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/nbcuniversal-mulls-options-for-streaming-service-peacock-20210926-p58utb.html)Yes, been topping up lately. Fingers crossed that we get some serious upward movement after the AGM. :t_up:

[winner69]

Share price looks a bit sad when its 1.xx something

[mistaTea]

Share price looks a bit sad when its 1.xx something

$1.99 sounds a lot cheaper than $2 a pop!

It will be interesting to see when Osmium top up next. Their NZME investment came in waves, sometimes with months in between big purchases.

Still no news on the property sale. Doesn’t look like Sky have been swamped with superior offers too good to refuse.

[mistaTea]

More chatter about the prospect of a Sky TV Television.

https://www.trustedreviews.com/opinion/sound-and-vision-how-would-a-sky-tv-work-4169621

[RTM]

More chatter about the prospect of a Sky TV Television.

https://www.trustedreviews.com/opinion/sound-and-vision-how-would-a-sky-tv-work-4169621

Not something that interests me at all. Prefer to have a GIZMO attached to my TV to deliver the programs.
Like Apple TV etc.
Doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing ?

[mistaTea]

Not something that interests me at all. Prefer to have a GIZMO attached to my TV to deliver the programs.
Like Apple TV etc.
Doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing ?

Could be a sizeable market for people who don’t want to muck around getting set top boxes.

Just buy the TV, plug it in…log into your Sky account and start streaming.

People are prepared to pay big bucks for a nice TV too…

[mikelee]

Similar to TVs with Freeview bulit-in.:cool:

[nztx]

https://i.imgur.com/EzCAoCS.jpg

Maybe this is for the data center?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300415570/wrong-region-topped-amazons-75b-data-centre-list-tech-experts-say

Someone's been busy again ? ;)

[mistaTea]

More info leaking on the Sky TV television...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/09/skys-broadband-ip-tv-service-to-launch-as-part-of-built-in-tv.html

'Sky Glass' is what they are calling it.

[jimdog31]

More info leaking on the Sky TV television...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/09/skys-broadband-ip-tv-service-to-launch-as-part-of-built-in-tv.html

'Sky Glass' is what they are calling it.

"something magical is coming"

Ogg, you need to set your doomsday timer to 7.10.21, according to Comcast "all will be revealed"

"ALL"
"ALL"
"ALL"

CAGESGREATESTHITSMONTAGE.gif

[Alpha]

Oh **** the Cage is back. Time to sell.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Re: property sale.

KPG just announced that they paid $27.5 million for a 7,144sqm block of land next to Sylvia park mall. That’s $3,849 per square meter.

thought that might be useful for judging how much sky might get.

How big is sky’s property in sqm?

(I am aware the land KPG just purchased is more valuable to them than others due to it neighboring their existing landholdings, so price is probably a lot higher than what it would normally be).

[thegreatestben]

26500m² * $3849 = $101,998,500

[LaserEyeKiwi]

26500m² * $3849 = $101,998,500

I would be ecstatic if they got half that. I noted above the KPG probably overpaid significantly vs general market due to the fact the land was adjacent to their existing properties. But still, if $50 million was possible it would be a great result.

[Hoop]

Oh **** the Cage is back. Time to sell.

:D:D:D

13021

Disc: Holding SKT

[thegreatestben]

Developers are paying on average $1850/m² for land deals through my work. I was also offered 1.2m for my 645m² property earlier this year.

26500m² * $1850 = $49,025,000

Probably a good guess eh.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Epiphany.

Random thought popped into my head this morning while reading about the 2degrees founders attempt to start a new supermarket chain.

So starting a new mobile network is incredibly hard, due to the fact that customers on a mobile network are by definition “mobile” - which means creating a new network requires it to cover the vast majority of the country to be viable. This is widely understood and not a surprise to anyone.

However, this is NOT the case for the relatively new “fixed wireless broadband” market, currently only being operated by the three major wireless networks. But the “FIXED” in fixed wireless broadband refers to the fact that all of the customers using this service are NOT mobile.

Therefore it would be possible for a new entrant to create a mobile network that only serves the fixed wireless broadband market in chosen locations, without a need to build a national network from day one. The major asset needed would be frequency allocation. So if a company could get there hands on access to a frequency, the cost of deploying mobile network towers is relatively small when only deploying them in specific target markets which would likely see a good return on investment. After a significant period of time, said company may have deployed towers in enough areas (say every metropolitan center) that they may consider the viability of a nationwide mobile phone network as also being a possibility in due course.

Too long; didn’t read version: It’s potentially far easier to launch a fixed wireless broadband network than a mobile phone network.

[peat]

but I would see its service offerings as a bit weak if it didnt also offer a proper mobile service. just my thoughts.

[mistaTea]

Epiphany.

Random thought popped into my head this morning while reading about the 2degrees founders attempt to start a new supermarket chain.

So starting a new mobile network is incredibly hard, due to the fact that customers on a mobile network are by definition “mobile” - which means creating a new network requires it to cover the vast majority of the country to be viable. This is widely understood and not a surprise to anyone.

However, this is NOT the case for the relatively new “fixed wireless broadband” market, currently only being operated by the three major wireless networks. But the “FIXED” in fixed wireless broadband refers to the fact that all of the customers using this service are NOT mobile.

Therefore it would be possible for a new entrant to create a mobile network that only serves the fixed wireless broadband market in chosen locations, without a need to build a national network from day one. The major asset needed would be frequency allocation. So if a company could get there hands on access to a frequency, the cost of deploying mobile network towers is relatively small when only deploying them in specific target markets which would likely see a good return on investment. After a significant period of time, said company may have deployed towers in enough areas (say every metropolitan center) that they may consider the viability of a nationwide mobile phone network as also being a possibility in due course.

Too long; didn’t read version: It’s potentially far easier to launch a fixed wireless broadband network than a mobile phone network.

I can’t see them making this kind of investment, and not sure how popular it would be anyway.

This would be a big shift in thinking given they have only recently done a wholesale broadband deal.

From this junction, their best option is to merge with Foxtel and become a much larger organisation with real scale.

Working our relative values would be a cinch.

[mistaTea]

MT quick to jump on the conspiracy theories when the opportunity pops up...

https://i.imgur.com/QjHvo44.gif

Ummm.

So…I was the first one to suggest that sky and Foxtel combining could make sense.

You have tried to jump on that bandwagon in your unique maniacal way.

Furthermore, I am not pushing any ‘conspiracy theories’. I am not predicting that any kind of merger is likely to happen.

Simply stating an opinion that this kind of transaction could make sense.

You never could discern the difference between hypothetical and topical discussion with trying to pump a whack job theory.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

but I would see its service offerings as a bit weak if it didnt also offer a proper mobile service. just my thoughts.

This product has nothing to do with a mobile service or mobile phones.

to clarify this is “Fixed wireless broadband” which is very different to “wireless broadband”. One (fixed wireless) is a standard stationary home broadband connection that you use as a Wi-Fi router etc, the other (wireless broadband) is data plans for mobile phones.

fixed wireless broadband is the broadband service where a router is still used that is plugged into a power plug in the wall, in much the same way as a fibre connected router does. The difference is that instead of connecting to a fibre or copper connection it is using a 5g radio. Spark & Vodafone are pushing as many people as possible onto their fixed wireless broadband products as they collect 100% of the revenue from those products, instead of having to pay the majority of revenue to chorus etc for a fibre connection.

Fixed wireless broadband products are very profitable and have nothing to do with a users preferred mobile phone network.

[mistaTea]

https://www.afr.com/companies/media-and-marketing/news-corp-still-open-to-m-and-a-activity-as-it-sets-new-share-buyback-20210923-p58u01

You would not be completely insane to think that they might at least test the waters with Sky.

Foxtel probably worth 6-7x Sky TV given the size of the market they operate in (and therefore bigger upside potential). But then they have $650M in debt whereas Sky has a clean balance sheet.

So probably not quite as straight forward as saying each company is valued at 'x' times EBITDA...but not too much more complicated than that.

I think it would be better than doing a deal with NZME.

Both Sky and Foxtel have avoided becoming fully fledged telcos - they each seem to have wholesale broadband deals. So their thinking around the "do we need to become a telco?" question is probably aligned.

The new company would have a potential audience of 30M across Australia and NZ, both growing their streaming audience while still serving up content via satellite distribution. The combined entity would have a much stronger negotiating hand with rights owners, and it would also mean that losing a contract (like NZR) would be less of a big deal. They would just take the $80M/year savings and invest in other content or growth opportunities without anybody expecting the loss of a single contract to mean the end of the business.

Foxtel have launched a sexy new STB and we are going to do the same within the next few months.

Of all the possibilities that have been put out there by myself and others, the most obvious one (Foxtel) has been staring at us the whole time.

So it will be interesting to see what happens. Unless and until then, the most pressing need for Sky is to wrap up the property sale and lock in a good price for the campus.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Stock price now 14% off its recent 2.20 high.

are we heading back to the 1.70-1.80 wastelands?

[mikelee]

Stock price now 14% off its recent 2.20 high.

are we heading back to the 1.70-1.80 wastelands?

Remember what's been said about SP being just a reflection of market sentiment. Maybe what's happening in the US & China atm, with the debt ceiling and energy crisis, is depressing the market. I only see sub $2 as a great opportunity to increase my holding.:t_up:

[Monarch]

Pretty sure today’s sph notice mentioned that they had 5% of the company but that the stocks were “loaned”. Could they be shorting the stock and causing today’s price drop?

[LaserEyeKiwi]

More sell off - down to 1.85 - any news of note?

[jimdog31]

Pretty sure today’s sph notice mentioned that they had 5% of the company but that the stocks were “loaned”. Could they be shorting the stock and causing today’s price drop?

120,000 is not a large qty to short.....

I'm confused why they even needed to do that disclosure as its nowhere near 1%. Mista , you got any clues bro?

[jimdog31]

And dont worry guys this pussy will happily lap up any discarded shares :t_up:

[jimdog31]

https://www.afr.com/companies/media-and-marketing/news-corp-still-open-to-m-and-a-activity-as-it-sets-new-share-buyback-20210923-p58u01

You would not be completely insane to think that they might at least test the waters with Sky.

Foxtel probably worth 6-7x Sky TV given the size of the market they operate in (and therefore bigger upside potential). But then they have $650M in debt whereas Sky has a clean balance sheet.

So probably not quite as straight forward as saying each company is valued at 'x' times EBITDA...but not too much more complicated than that.

I think it would be better than doing a deal with NZME.

Both Sky and Foxtel have avoided becoming fully fledged telcos - they each seem to have wholesale broadband deals. So their thinking around the "do we need to become a telco?" question is probably aligned.

The new company would have a potential audience of 30M across Australia and NZ, both growing their streaming audience while still serving up content via satellite distribution. The combined entity would have a much stronger negotiating hand with rights owners, and it would also mean that losing a contract (like NZR) would be less of a big deal. They would just take the $80M/year savings and invest in other content or growth opportunities without anybody expecting the loss of a single contract to mean the end of the business.

Foxtel have launched a sexy new STB and we are going to do the same within the next few months.

Of all the possibilities that have been put out there by myself and others, the most obvious one (Foxtel) has been staring at us the whole time.

So it will be interesting to see what happens. Unless and until then, the most pressing need for Sky is to wrap up the property sale and lock in a good price for the campus.

Definitely not silly. There'd be some definite synergies.

[mistaTea]

120,000 is not a large qty to short.....

I'm confused why they even needed to do that disclosure as its nowhere near 1%. Mista , you got any clues bro?

I haven’t spared any brainpower thinking about the disclosure today nor did I realise there was any fluctuation in SP until I saw the recent posts on this forum.

I am due a top up soon anyway, so hopefully SP keeps dropping.

[mikelee]

My money is not earning any interest with ASB anyway, so would rather top up in case of dividend next year. I'm in this for the long term so not too worry about the downward trend yet.:)

[peat]

I cast my eye over the SPH and was a little confused.
It looked like their holding hadnt changed?
Surely if they loaned it out as the second part implied then they dont have beneficial interest anymore and should've declared a lower holding. But yeh its not worth much brainpower as MT says.

[mistaTea]

Definitely not silly. There'd be some definite synergies.

I reckon if they joined up they have the potential to become an absolutely HUGE (like Trump HUUUUUUUGE) company. They would be one of the juggernauts by NZX standards on Day 1 anyway.

Spark Sport would almost certainly throw in the towel. It would be Spark's third failed attempt at entering Live Sport.

[jimdog31]

I cast my eye over the SPH and was a little confused.
It looked like their holding hadnt changed?
Surely if they loaned it out as the second part implied then they dont have beneficial interest anymore and should've declared a lower holding. But yeh its not worth much brainpower as MT says.

I can only think its a mistake, and they meant they have loaned 1,200,000? confused by the consolidation?

[Monarch]

That SPH looks like they have a lot of shares in various entities (See annexure A at the bottom), but have acquired 120,000 more on loan for some reason. Weird. Perhaps they are just nominees/acting on behalf of many individuals?

[Slim]

Sold a week ago to chase something shiny, I was quite worried that the property sale would have been announced in the interim.

Super happy that I effectively increased my holding by 15% in the process with my other gains and the share drop today allowing me to buy back in cheaper.

Brought on the asx to try and milk a few more % gains from the currency variations. And so the long wait begins again, albeit with a cornerstone investor who allegedly wants to increase their stake and a very valuable property to be offloaded.

Still exciting times ahead

[mistaTea]

Write up in the Herald about Foxtel.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12476212

[jimdog31]

bu-bu-but muh netflix

“An extra A$1 billion in revenue equates to a rise of 50 per cent; achieving this would be quite remarkable”

I know where they can get 70% of that target

montgomeryburns.gif

[mistaTea]

“An extra A$1 billion in revenue equates to a rise of 50 per cent; achieving this would be quite remarkable”

I know where they can get 70% of that target

montgomeryburns.gif

If Foxtel do IPO next year, it will be an important valuation benchmark for Sky I think.

They are aiming for north of 10x operating cash flows based on pitching Foxtel as a growth business. All growth coming from streaming.

If that holds true, then even if the Market didn’t see the same upside potential for SNT…I think you should still rationally expect an operating cash flow multiple of 6-7. That alone would be a valuation of $600M-$700M based on the low point earnings expected in FY22.

And if Sky succeed in their turnaround (and we are following the exact same strategy as Foxtel, only about 6-12 months behind…) then we can expect a higher multiple of higher operating cash flows.

Or yeah, we could all short cut the whole thing with some kind of a deal.

Let’s say Foxtel have an EV of $3.65B to keep numbers simple. They have $650M debt. So their quoted value is $3B.

Let’s say Sky get the low end valuation of $600M. But we will have ~$100M in the bank after the property sale and no debt. So EV of $700M.

You create more shares in Sky (easier to do now that we only have ~175M s/o) so that Foxtel own 77% of the new entity and existing SNT holders have 23%.

I think a split like that would be fair to all, and both would stand to realise significant upside as the new business is better positioned to reduce costs and flex muscles in important content rights negotiations.

[jimdog31]

If Foxtel do IPO next year, it will be an important valuation benchmark for Sky I think.

They are aiming for north of 10x operating cash flows based on pitching Foxtel as a growth business. All growth coming from streaming.

If that holds true, then even if the Market didn’t see the same upside potential for SNT…I think you should still rationally expect an operating cash flow multiple of 6-7. That alone would be a valuation of $600M-$700M based on the low point earnings expected in FY22.

And if Sky succeed in their turnaround (and we are following the exact same strategy as Foxtel, only about 6-12 months behind…) then we can expect a higher multiple of higher operating cash flows.

Or yeah, we could all short cut the whole thing with some kind of a deal.

Let’s say Foxtel are worth $3.65B to keep numbers simple. They have $650M debt. So their EV is $3B.

Let’s say Sky get the low end valuation of $600M. But we will have ~$100M in the bank after the property sale and no debt. So EV of $700M.

You create more shares in Sky (easier to do now that we only have ~175M s/o) so that Foxtel own 77% of the new entity and existing SNT holders have 23%.

I think a split like that would be fair to all, and both would stand to realise significant upside as the new business is better positioned to reduce costs and flex muscles in important content rights negotiations.

Agreed. a combined ANZ media business makes more sense to me than a standalone Comcast entity at the bottom of the world.

[mistaTea]

Agreed. a combined ANZ media business makes more sense to me than a standalone Comcast entity at the bottom of the world.

Yes, the two businesses are literally identical in every single way.

And both have content deals with the same studios.

It is the most ‘obvious’ option, if a deal is to be made.

A combined entity would produce revenue north of $4B within a year or so.

EBITDA would be around $450M, implying underlying Owner Earnings of $250M+.

That’s when Spark throw in the towel for the third time.

[mistaTea]

https://amp-smh-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.smh.com.au/business/companies/foxtel-limbers-up-for-its-public-listing-but-wants-to-be-match-fit-20210930-p58w6m.html

They even use the same ‘capital lite’ terminology that we are using.

Clearly we talk to these guys a lot and we stole that term from them.

[Slim]

Still no update to the property listing in respect to studio one.
Odd to think they havnt after saying level 4 and ppl not being able to inspect the site was reason for delay.

[mistaTea]

Still no update to the property listing in respect to studio one.
Odd to think they havnt after saying level 4 and ppl not being able to inspect the site was reason for delay.

It’s probably just taking then a while to count all of the money being thrown at them…

[mistaTea]

Interesting excerpt from the 2008 Annual Letter...




One of the more important partners has been Telecom New Zealand. SKY and Telecom have worked together for over 10 years to serve our mutual customers. The current arrangement has expired and we have mutually agreed to extend the arrangement on a month by month basis until either we are able to negotiate a new contract or terminate negotiations.


See? We used to be good mates with Spark!

Though it looks like the wheels started falling off in 2008...

[Muse]

Apparently Vocus NZ was looking at a valuation around $598m and $783m or between 8x and 11x ebitda but Spark is trading at around 9x.

The recent market sentiment meant that the high IPO price was unlikely to be meant, hence why the IPO is over.

Trilogy under the pump with a huge debt load so something needs to be done soon.

This merger makes sense.

Question is weather the new entity gets IPOed or is kept by private equity.

Adding Sky into the mix would be nice. Would boost the EBITA for a refloat and/or would be more attractive to Comcast.

Curious mate and not trying to be rude, but do you have a job or does posting about sky pretty much occupy the day?

[mistaTea]

Apparently Vocus NZ was looking at a valuation around $598m and $783m or between 8x and 11x ebitda but Spark is trading at around 9x.

The recent market sentiment meant that the high IPO price was unlikely to be meant, hence why the IPO is over.

Trilogy under the pump with a huge debt load so something needs to be done soon.

This merger makes sense.

Question is weather the new entity gets IPOed or is kept by private equity.

Adding Sky into the mix would be nice. Would boost the EBITA for a refloat and/or would be more attractive to Comcast.

Vocus and 2D should absolutely merge. Definitely a smarter move.

Sky would be the secret sauce that helps them topple Spark as #1.

But we have been here before.

[mistaTea]

Curious mate and not trying to be rude, but do you have a job or does posting about sky pretty much occupy the day?

There is no other way to take that than rude mate.

Pull your head in.

[Joshuatree]

Curious mate and not trying to be rude, but do you have a job or does posting about sky pretty much occupy the day?

Its hard to know if Ogg is a brand of coffee or Mr Tea is a sasquatch or they are two sibling rivalries or one is in too deep and one not deep enough or one is a forced celibate and the other cant get enough and is occasionally rewarded when the s/p moves. All in all it doesnt matter, is very entertaining, with snippets of good analysis mixed in with the ifs and maybes.:t_up:

[mistaTea]

Its hard to know if Ogg is a brand of coffee or Mr Tea is a sasquatch or they are two sibling rivalries or one is in too deep and one not deep enough or one is a forced celibate and the other cant get enough and is occasionally rewarded when the s/p moves. All in all it doesnt matter, is very entertaining, with snippets of good analysis mixed in with the ifs and maybes.:t_up:

https://c.tenor.com/UCwrbt-fPpsAAAAC/jim-carrey-excited-to-see-you.gif

[Muse]

Its hard to know if Ogg is a brand of coffee or Mr Tea is a sasquatch or they are two sibling rivalries or one is in too deep and one not deep enough or one is a forced celibate and the other cant get enough and is occasionally rewarded when the s/p moves. All in all it doesnt matter, is very entertaining, with snippets of good analysis mixed in with the ifs and maybes.:t_up:

thanks josh im starting to get the lay of the land a bit better now

[mistaTea]

I'm unemployed and spend 18 hours a day posting on sharetrader.

Cindy doesn’t even make us apply for jobs to keep the dole anymore…

[nztx]

Cindy doesn’t even make us apply for jobs to keep the dole anymore…


Ogg may become a taxpayer again, when SKT spit out a div .. ;)

then he may be considered a full time investor

Let's hope the Socialist Clueless dont decide to pay the same degree of their love to investors
as they have Residential Property Landlords ;)

Mind you commercial LL's are now seeing their share of the Love out of Labour's love affair
with lockdowns & the left's vision of prescribed control syndrome ;)

[Joshuatree]

thanks josh im starting to get the lay of the land a bit better now

Great!!:t_up:
Now maybe you can help me .What on earth is,nztx on ???! Green chartreuse and rhubarb jargon juice with some marinated poly icecubes ???

[maclir]

Ogg, how you feeling about the merger? Jilted? Watching Bridesmaids?

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Vocus about to pull IPO, 2degrees merger in the frame


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/vocus-about-to-pull-ipo-2degrees-merger-in-the-frame/J2RC7L7JQDT5NOOE27VZMCPKC4/

called this a while ago - makes much more sense than either of them buying Sky.