TRA - Turners Automotive Group [previously TNR - Turners Limited]

[couta1]

Like this mate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab4zQni0cIw ? I reckon that guy with where he had his arm was pretty brave :eek2: Just Purfic

[trader_jackson]

NPAT upgrade/narrowing towards the upper end would be nice
Dreams are free

[Beagle]

Just Purfic

Dale Carnegie - how to win friends and influence people lol

[winner69]

Big day today, with the AGM

First part will be rerun of road show. A bit boring but believers salivating on every word as the greatness of this company is told. Doubt Chairman will be laughed at like Trump got but more like a Jacinda uphoria mood

Then the exciting bit. The previous guidance NPBT $34m to $36m (up 13% on mid) will become NPBT $36m to $38m

Then the drama as enraged shareholders get stuck into the troughers, herdlickers and greedy self indulgent directors about the pay rise. That motion will pass with a huge meeting

Punters will leave on high as the share price soars over 3 bucks

Put the WINX.AU cash on TRA yesterday for a quick return ....cool eh

[Beagle]

LOL you've got the script all worked out...no need for me to go then..oh wait I have stayed up all night working on metamorphizing from a Beagle into a WereWolf so there has to be some purpose to that :D

[winner69]

LOL you've got the script all worked out...no need for me to go then..oh wait I have stayed up all night working on metamorphizing from a Beagle into a WereWolf so there has to be some purpose to that :D

Make sure you use sophisticated lingo like ‘colour’,’appetite’, ‘optics’ etc ......that’ll confuse the car salesmen

[Beagle]

Make sure you use sophisticated lingo like ‘colour’, ‘optics’ etc ......that’ll confuse the car salesmen

Woof woof,...opps I mean Grrrrrr lol. Good idea mate.

[Joshuatree]

It says only 18 besides me waiting for the audio to start, everyone else out to quickly buy a car:p

[Timesurfer]

LOL you've got the script all worked out...no need for me to go then

Interestingly others have not read the script and a few bailing pre the big show losing easy money in the process.

[trader_jackson]

Slide 5 pie graph a bit sloppy

winner - no NPAT upgrade, TRA just priced just a little bit cheap instead of pretty cheap
save the upgrade for just before full year results and/or well after my bond conversion

[RTM]

Surprised how few are interested in watching....

[Timesurfer]

Someone just beat me to my cheap shares :(

[winner69]

Suppose they had to say .... • Share price undervalued on core metrics

But with Analyst A and Analyst B having a target of $3.30 implies a price today of $2.90 to $3.00

So either Analyst A or Analyst B are dimwits or Turners management are a bit delusional

Should have included Analyst C(outa) to support their claim share price under valued

[minimoke]

Surprised how few are interested in watching....Like it. Tapping into You tube without prior registration makes it very easy. Video and voice syncing well with good high def picture.

[RTM]

Like it. Tapping into You tube without prior registration makes it very easy. Video and voice syncing well with good high def picture.

Yes...the presentation is great. Agreed.
Do you think they would answer questions in the chat window ?

[minimoke]

Do you think they would answer questions in the chat window ?
Dont know - give it a go and see what happens

[LAC]

I am here now so if the question isn’t asked I can ask on your behalf.... I have to leave a little early though so hoping questions come up soon

[couta1]

Suppose they had to say .... • Share price undervalued on core metrics

But with Analyst A and Analyst B having a target of $3.30 implies a price today of $2.90 to $3.00

So either Analyst A or Analyst B are dimwits or Turners management are a bit delusional

Should have included Analyst C(outa) to support their claim share price under valued I could have provided all the mathematics to prove it if they had given me a slide, would have done more for the SP than an increase in Directors fees.Lol.

[winner69]

Not a very diverse looking top table.

Suppose cars is a boys game anyway

[RTM]

I am here now so if the question isn’t asked I can ask on your behalf.... I have to leave a little early though so hoping questions come up soon

I was wondering if they think they are getting any value out of their Australian listing. Heard them mention it earlier. Must cost a few dollars to maintain.

[RTM]

Not a very diverse looking top table.

Suppose cars is a boys game anyway

Our Government is nice and diverse Winner, I guess that cheers you up ?

[winner69]

c’mon Todd ...a bit more enthusiasm please

[LAC]

I think that one was answered at the road show about some instos will only look at companies which are asx listed as well. Someone can correct me if I am wrong...

[RTM]

c’mon Todd ...a bit more enthusiasm please

Yes….PB was very defensive as well I thought.

[RTM]

I think that one was answered at the road show about some instos will only look at companies which are asx listed as well. Someone can correct me if I am wrong...

So are they getting Insto interest in Oz as a result ? Sorry...didn't make the road shows...thanks for your response.

[RTM]

Lot of Grey / Bald heads in the audience !

[RTM]

So PB very happy with Oz.....TH says they are struggling.

[minimoke]

Not a very diverse looking top table.

Suppose cars is a boys game anyway
Good answer to question: "Diversity in Thinking" At every level they want the most talented individual in that role. Excellent stuff!

[RTM]

Good answer to question: "Diversity in Thinking" At every level they want the most talented individual in that role. Excellent stuff!

Yes....he should quit while he's ahead.

[minimoke]

I was wondering if they think they are getting any value out of their Australian listing. Heard them mention it earlier. Must cost a few dollars to maintain.Disappointed with it - but only $60k a year to maintain

[Timesurfer]

Listing on the ASX for paid for holidays?

[RTM]

I am here now so if the question isn’t asked I can ask on your behalf.... I have to leave a little early though so hoping questions come up soon

Was that you ? If so thanks.

[minimoke]

So far 28m in favour of director fee increase, 1.6 against

[minimoke]

No such thing as a silly question but excellent point made about shabby single stapled Annual Report. I think we can expect something of a bit better standard next time around.

[RTM]

Nothing in that meeting or presentation to portray a picture of exceptional growth ahead. Will be slow, steady progress I suspect if we're lucky. Growing earnings -> leading to growing dividends -> leading to increasing Share Price over time. Mostly on used cars. Hmmmmm...well, as long as they can grow the dividend, SP shouldn't drop much further and I'll stay the course.

A little disappointed.

Nice work re the directors fees Beagle.
Anyway...that's my impression.

[winner69]

interesting that a “Challenging Q1” (performance wise) was followed by The Roadshow in July/August

And you guys reported only positive things from those meetings — like things were booming - hmm

[percy]

An excellent meeting well conducted by Paul Brynes.
Strategy in place for a sound growing business, which is at present rewarding shareholders with growing dividends.Strategy is well thought out.Sales,Insurance,Finance,Service. [property]
Share price being discussed was pleasing,including the point that most brokers mistakenly categorise TRA as a retail stock..A lot of interesting questions,and McGinty and Beagle made very interesting, well researched points.
Very open about the MTF and insurance issues.What a capable board.Property developments in Auckland and ChCh still on their agenda.I look forward to hearing more about them.
YouTube served us well.

ps Wellingtonions.Is Turners new site open?

[minimoke]

An excellent meeting well conducted by Paul Brynes.Watching the bits I managed to see. I felt it was OK, not hyped nor depressed. Didnt seem a lot of energy in the presentations - but probably appropriate. Answers were well constructed. Overall impression was business as usual, slow but steady - with no surprises in the wings, nor any earth shattering opportunities. I'm left anticipating slight share price improvement over time but not to $3.60 or $3.90 previous highs. Not all shares can be manic ATM's so a bit of steadyness probably not a bad thing for my portfolio - though I do want to se SP hit $3.10 which would at least put me back to break even rather than the current negative position.

Well done to the video team - worked well and money well spent. Though couldn't quite see the tasty morsels on the treats table.

.

[Beagle]

Hold for dividend income and some growth is my sense after attending.
I am forecasting just 4.5% eps growth this year based on the mid point of the FY19 forecast. The main villain is the weighted average number of shares on issue this year will be considerably higher due to primarily the large capital raise part way through last year and secondly the bond conversion. This sort of EPS growth does not fuel SP growth as we have seen with HBL lately.

I chatted with a couple of the directors after the meeting, (after giving them a good rev up about their directors fees increase, so it was a little awkward), but the sense I get is that steady progress is being made. I suggested they need to sell themselves better to shareholders and talk up the change from wholesale distribution to more retail and really send the message that this really grows their ability to cross sell finance, warranty and insurance.

The key question in my mind, which is an open one, can they grow eps at high single digit level's in FY20 without share issuance ? I think a lot depends upon the economic cycle and how things play themselves out so that question probably remains open for a while. EPS by my reckoning is 30.6 cps in FY19. Choose your PE. Best guess at this point is momentum will build, (Rome definitely wasn't built in a day) and we could get high single digit EPS growth next year.

[Ggcc]

So far 28m in favour of director fee increase, 1.6 against
As I said before I will be pleasantly surprised if they won’t get what they ask

[winner69]

Make sure you use sophisticated lingo like ‘colour’,’appetite’, ‘optics’ etc ......that’ll confuse the car salesmen

Beagle ......proud of you. Pity you and others didn’t really get good answers

Have watched a replay .......you can see why the share price is where it is (even though fairly valued and not cheap)

Neighbour’s impression was the company just seems to lurch from one problem to the next and have spent a lot of time solving them and reckon that next year they will telling shareholders about another series of problems. As a newish shareholder he didn’t seem too impressed.

[percy]

Beagle ......proud of you. Pity you and others didn’t really get good answers

Have watched a replay .......you can see why the share price is where it is (even though fairly valued and not cheap)

Neighbour’s impression was the company just seems to lurch from one problem to the next and have spent a lot of time solving them and reckon that next year they will telling shareholders about another series of problems. As a newish shareholder he didn’t seem too impressed.

Trust you told the neighbour that is what business is all about.The successful business identifies problems and fixes them,all the time delivering on their [growth] strategy.
Get him to read The Mainfreight History.Over coming "real" problems,and still continuing to do so.

[minimoke]

Trust you told the neighbour that is what business is all about.The successful business identifies problems and fixes them,all the time delivering on their [growth] strategy.
Get him to read The Mainfreight History.Over coming "real" problems,and still continuing to do so.And today we see another 3 cents peeled of the SP so not everyone is convinced.

[winner69]

Trust you told the neighbour that is what business is all about.The successful business identifies problems and fixes them,all the time delivering on their [growth] strategy.

Agree to some extent ...but there is a big difference fixing problems / overcoming challenges and fixing mistakes (like mispricing was one word I heard)

[winner69]

Good answer to question: "Diversity in Thinking" At every level they want the most talented individual in that role. Excellent stuff!

Looked uncomfortable didn’t he

One thing for sure is Turners will not be having any females on the Board for some time ..a certainty that is.

[sb9]

An excellent meeting well conducted by Paul Brynes.
Strategy in place for a sound growing business, which is at present rewarding shareholders with growing dividends.Strategy is well thought out.Sales,Insurance,Finance,Service. [property]
Share price being discussed was pleasing,including the point that most brokers mistakenly categorise TRA as a retail stock..A lot of interesting questions,and McGinty and Beagle made very interesting, well researched points.
Very open about the MTF and insurance issues.What a capable board.Property developments in Auckland and ChCh still on their agenda.I look forward to hearing more about them.
YouTube served us well.

ps Wellingtonions.Is Turners new site open?

Concur with your thoughts, they seem to be heading in right direction. Slow and steady, collect the divvies along the way.

Must say that new director Martin (Aussie) has got some impressive background. Hope Turners can leverage some his expertise to grow business.

[percy]

Agree to some extent ...but there is a big difference fixing problems / overcoming challenges and fixing mistakes (like mispricing was one word I heard)

Quote from an Ebos agm a few years ago.Mark Waller;"We are wasting our time in Australia.We either get big,or we get out."
Go to any Mainfreight presentation and hear Don Baird telling a few "home truths".
Same at Ryman agms.

[percy]

Looked uncomfortable didn’t he

One thing for sure is Turners will not be having any females on the Board for some time ..a certainty that is.

I thought he looked very comfortable.
Told the truth,want only the best people who have the skills they want.
Simple as that.
Pity other boards don't feel the same way.

[percy]

And today we see another 3 cents peeled of the SP so not everyone is convinced.

Off course not.
No surprises there.!
Think the old twit who was going on about Heartland in Australia may have been the seller.
Certainly was not me...…….lol.

[percy]

Concur with your thoughts, they seem to be heading in right direction. Slow and steady, collect the divvies along the way.

Must say that new director Martin (Aussie) has got some impressive background. Hope Turners can leverage some his expertise to grow business.

And I concur with you.....lol.

[minimoke]

Off course not.
No surprises there.!
Think the old twit who was going on about Heartland in Australia may have been the seller.
Certainly was not me...…….lol.Thats the trouble with AGM's during work hours. Bit like funerals. Gives some old folks with nothing better to do than turn up for a free feed and a grizzle (was he the same guy that said the Strategic report had not been published?

[Joshuatree]

Very kind of you to dump on all us older folk when you are the biggest grizzler ive come across.How ageist can one be.

[minimoke]

Very kind of you to dump on all us older folk when you are the biggest grizzler ive come across.How ageist can one be.If the cap fits wear it!. Here's what I said " Gives some old folks........". I shouldn't need to define the word "some"

[blackcap]

I thought he looked very comfortable.
Told the truth,want only the best people who have the skills they want.
Simple as that.
Pity other boards don't feel the same way.

Yeah he looked quite un-flustered and stated his case. I think he got a bit of applause for that stance too. Don't get me wrong, I am all for females at board level, my partner happens to be one. But they must be there on merit not as a token bimbo (as my partner would say)

[RupertBear]

Looked uncomfortable didn’t he

One thing for sure is Turners will not be having any females on the Board for some time ..a certainty that is.

I thought he looked uncomfortable on a number of occasions and was quite defensive. He didnt inspire confidence in me to be honest and I wouldnt buy back in after watching it but most of you seem happy with the presentation and are happy holders and have way more knowledge and experience than me :)

[Beagle]

I agree that Paul Brynes looked uncomfortable and defensive and didn't speak especially well. Look I have to say this. In my view its unacceptable that the Chairman Grant Baker didn't attend. Unless a close relative is dying or just died or one is extremely sick in my view there really isn't another valid excuse for a Chairman not to show his face at the annual meeting.

If I didn't know better, (and I certainly don't) I'd think seeing as he knew the votes on hand prior to the meeting was already going to carry the directors fees increase he was too embarrassed to show his face at the annual meeting. Going off comments on here he would have known the certain shareholders, myself included, were gunning for him over the exorbitant directors fee and especially chairman's fee increase so why cop the flak right ?

Might as well take that extra $40K which is rather conveniently backdated to 1 April 2018, grab a couple of first class seats on Emirates to Zurich and go skiing in Switzerland right ? How dare commoners question my right to very fulsome remuneration right ? I'm a big shareholder in this company didn't you know and it doesn't matter if we simply staple annual reports together with one staple, shareholders don't deserve a properly bound report because we're trying to save money...except of course when it comes to Directors Fees !

I think its very rude and disrespectful to shareholders for him not to show up. Definite black mark against the company for that....and the other directors wonder why the SP is under pressure...Hmmm... top pay and they couldn't organize a shareholder placement plan for small shareholders in a fair and reasonable manner last year...Hmmm.

Todd Hunter impressed...if it wasn't for him I'd probably be out. Anyway...that's probably enough barking for one day.

[percy]

Agree The Chairman should have been there,however I accept The Board altered the meeting date.
In fact I think Paul Byrnes handling of the meeting was one of the best I have seen/or been to.
He handled McGinty's well research questions extremely well.All other questions except your staple question were answered head on,and fully.
Yes Todd Hunter impresses,but so does CFO Aaron Saunders, and the whole board.
If you missed the reasons why the sp was under pressure, go to YouTube Turners Automotive Group agm 2018 and listen to what Paul Byrne said.

[Beagle]

Yeah I chatted with a couple of the other board members and would have to conceed they seemed like good guys. Just grumpy about not being able to take direct aim at Grant Baker as I was looking forward to that. Maybe we get a properly bound annual report next year :) Possibly pretty fair buying at around the current level but my price target one year hence is somewhat lower than the average brokers target and a lot lower than the Couta1 theorem. I'm okay with my bonds converting to shares now...so attendance today was worth it as far as I am concerned.

[percy]

The current net dividend yield is 5.40 %.It is paid quarterly.
The current PE is 9.81.
Clever business model with strong organic growth,very strong brand,top CEO and CFO,good board,strong balance sheet.
Couta1 is right,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just a matter of when?...…………...lol.


ps.Most probably be more earnings accretive for Heartland to buy than UDC...………….lol.

[Jaa]

Disappointed there was no online voting option. Easy way to suppress votes from small shareholders. Glad you guys asked the questions that needed asking.

I have been overseas so was unable to vote against the increase in the Directors fees. Hope Grant filled out his form before he left.

[minimoke]

Agree The Chairman should have been there,however I accept The Board altered the meeting date..
I missed the intro bit. Why would the Board change the date to a date the Chair couldn't attend? If they were changing dates couldn't they change to one he could attend.

[Joshuatree]

I voted online Jaa.
Certainly , without a valid reason extremely disappointing re grant baker. Is he arrogant and only int in adding value for one as ive read an opinion somewhere before ?

[percy]

I missed the intro bit. Why would the Board change the date to a date the Chair couldn't attend? If they were changing dates couldn't they change to one he could attend.

I don't know.I remember going to a neice's wedding years ago,in Sydney.Booked our tickets for us going from ChCh return ,and neice's mother coming from Gold Coast.Neice had to change the date, because of venue double booking.Yes changed date was the day we were meant to fly home.Changing flights AIR NZ screwed me blind.Venue said tough.Maybe Grant wanted a laugh at Donald at the UN.?.Maybe McGinty will find the answer at next year's agm.
Go to YouTube;Turners Automotive Group agm 2018 and you can hear the whole meeting.
at 8.46 into to it, Paul Byrne talks about the share price.

[minimoke]

I don't know.
Go to YouTube;Turners Automotive Group agm 2018 and you can hear the whole meeting.
Hmm - I dont think so. Once was enough to engage most of my attention, Second time around would send me into a state of torpor

[percy]

Hmm - I dont think so. Once was enough to engage most of my attention, Second time around would send me into a state of torpor

I will listen to it again.
Turners is/are my largest investment,so it is very important I have it right.I often put a lot of eggs into one basket,then watch that basket carefully,resulting in my ongoing "strong conviction."

[couta1]

I will listen to it again.
Turners is/are my largest investment,so it is very important I have it right.I often put a lot of eggs into one basket,then watch that basket carefully,resulting in my ongoing "strong conviction." Lol, how could I not agree wholeheartedly with this post, strong basket holds lots of eggs, weak basket holds few eggs so many baskets required to hold same number of eggs.

[Joshuatree]

Many ways to increase ones portfolio couta. if your way works(holding fewer larger baskets) for you thats great. But for many holding a decent number of stocks in different sectors is a lower risk way of investing.
Managing ones risk and limiting losses is the most important investment rule imo.
Your way you can make higher gains but bigger losses as well and it can happen anytime. Often we dont really know what our risk level is until our first decent disaster in my experience.

[percy]

Lol, how could I not agree wholeheartedly with this post, strong basket holds lots of eggs, weak basket holds few eggs so many baskets required to hold same number of eggs.

Having owned my own businesses I often had all my eggs in one basket.The basket being a toy shop,then a bookshop,then a school library supplier, the basket was not very strong.
Now I can invest with directors/managers who are a lot more capable in business than I ever was.

[Leftfield]

Lol, how could I not agree wholeheartedly with this post, strong basket holds lots of eggs, weak basket holds few eggs so many baskets required to hold same number of eggs.

Interesting reading the comments on the AGM (thanks for sharing)..... while I'm never averse to being 'overweight' in some shares, and respect Percy's views, I remain doubtful that TNR's model is capable of exceeding NZX top 50 average growth and suspect that while this is a relatively 'safe' investment for some, it is just not for me. GLH.

[RTM]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/324475/287523.pdf

I'd have liked to have seen the numbers. Especially on the remuneration for directors.

[minimoke]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/324475/287523.pdf

I'd have liked to have seen the numbers. Especially on the remuneration for directors.I dont think the numbers would say much. They would already have wrapped up the major shareholders, leaving us plebs with a few remaining votes against.

[winner69]

For posterity below is what the Deputy Chairman said about why is the share price so low.

He only said what punters wanted to hear and maybe he is grumpy as some others. Funny thing though a lot of the things he pointed out says ‘fair value’ today is only $2.90/$3.00 anyway

They don’t seem to get that analysts target prices if around $3.30 means today’s price should be about $2.90/$3.00 — (about the same price he bought at ...hmm). It should be noted that the mentioned analysts are on the same page as the company as they cone up with the same profit figure - sort of says they understand the business model / strategy etc. so where’s the problem Paul

Paul did say the market is what it is ...and done it’s sums and think it’s only worth $3.00 now and if things go OK maybe $3.30 in a years time. What’s the problem

Anyway here’s the words Paul used -

The only area of performance that has disappointed is our languishing share price. As it must be a concern for all shareholders we should take some time to discuss possible reasons and market feedback.

As most will know both First NZ Capital and Craigs Investment Partners commenced analyst coverage of Turners in 2016 with regular in-depth analysis of our full year and interim results, providing guidance for their respective clients. As part of these regular market research reports, analysts include their forecast of future profits for 3 years out and a share price target for the next 12 months based on their analysis.


The most recent research reports following the release of our profit result to 31 March 2018, had 12 month target share prices of $3.29 and $3.35, so an average of $3.32. Forecast profit for this current year FY19 from the 2 reports were similarly close to each other with an average profit before tax of $34.5 million, just under the mid-point of our current guidance of between $34 million and $36 million. We would also expect actual earnings per share for FY19 to come close to assumptions included in these reports.

So why is our share price currently around $2.85, well below the price suggested by conventional analysis in these reports? And trading at a level at which the Board sees value – you will have seen directors and senior executives including Grant, Todd and myself recently buying at around $3.00 per share.

Of course there will be a number of factors influencing a share price in any dynamic stock exchange market, and no doubt some of you will have other ideas that we would be happy to hear about. But feedback from shareholders and market commentators suggest 3 possible issues at play;

1. Strategy in a more complex Turners business
2. Concern about the tightening credit cycle
3. Negative sentiment from last year’s capital raise

[Beagle]

I missed the intro bit. Why would the Board change the date to a date the Chair couldn't attend? If they were changing dates couldn't they change to one he could attend.

^^^^This. Something is not right here. Free warning sign for those that choose to take notice of it. Reasons could be many and varied but unless someone close is in dire straights no other reason is valid in my view and I simply don't "buy" the change of date excuse given. It was very weak and implausible. Interestingly the deputy chair chose not to give a specific reason other than Mr Baker had a long standing commitment, (what, for a holiday ?), and based on body language looked very uncomfortable about the whole situation. That body language may or may not show up on youtube but was obvious to those who were there. He still gets his pay increase despite not being there. If one is the Chairman of the board and shareholders have just one chance per annum to eyeball said person and ask them questions when they want a large pay increase THE VERY LEAST said chairman should do is to turn up to the annual meeting. It is absolutely DISGRACEFUL that he didn't attend and reflects very poorly on the rest of the board and the company.

Next year if I am still a shareholder I will get a good sarcastic dig in...something like. Starting off a question with... Nice of you to choose to join us this year Mr Baker...

One positive...at least this board has the common sense not to be obsessed with diversity like some are...

[minimoke]

For posterity below is what the Deputy Chairman said about why is the share price so low.Not much mention of failure of ASX exposure to ignite some interest / demand

[percy]

Not much mention of failure of ASX exposure to ignite some interest / demand

Yes there was.

[blackcap]

5.13% against the directors fees, so you did have some influence here on the forum. Pity the insto's are so apathetic.

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/324506/287592.pdf

[percy]

^^^^This. Something is not right here. Free warning sign for those that choose to take notice of it. Reasons could be many and varied but unless someone close is in dire straights no other reason is valid in my view and I simply don't "buy" the change of date excuse given. It was very weak and implausible. Interestingly the deputy chair chose not to give a specific reason other than Mr Baker had a long standing commitment, (what for a holiday ?), and based on body language looked very uncomfortable about the whole situation. That body language may or may not show up on youtube but was obvious to those who were there. He still gets his pay increase despite not being there. I will leave it for people to decide for themselves whether he deserves shareholders respect for that or some other sentiment.

AGM.held 2015..16th September.
……………….2016..14th September
……………...2017..20th September.
2018 it was held a week later on 26th September.
Now a friend of mine is going fishing in Canada next year.Booking made last year.Deposit not refundable.
So it is easy to see Grant had made a commitment,based on the usual week TRA held their agm.
So no hidden agenda,or any other conspiracy theories needed.
I would like to know who wrote The Chairman's speech Grant or Paul.?

ps.Anyone know how much it would cost to charter Graeme Hart's super yacht for a week's, or a fortnight's Mediterranean Cruise.?
pps.Wonder whether Graeme would refund your deposit if you could not make it.?...………..lol.

[minimoke]

Yes there was.
There was some mention (like the Directors visits and a bit about how a few ozzies are holders) but I might have missed the detail on why the ASX listing has failed to fire..

[winner69]

^^^^This. Something is not right here. Free warning sign for those that choose to take notice of it. Reasons could be many and varied but unless someone close is in dire straights no other reason is valid in my view and I simply don't "buy" the change of date excuse given. It was very weak and implausible. Interestingly the deputy chair chose not to give a specific reason other than Mr Baker had a long standing commitment, (what, for a holiday ?), and based on body language looked very uncomfortable about the whole situation. That body language may or may not show up on youtube but was obvious to those who were there. He still gets his pay increase despite not being there. If one is the Chairman of the board and shareholders have just one chance per annum to eyeball said person and ask them questions when they want a large pay increase THE VERY LEAST said chairman should do is to turn up to the annual meeting. It is absolutely DISGRACEFUL that he didn't attend and reflects very poorly on the rest of the board and the company.

Next year if I am still a shareholder I will get a good sarcastic dig in...something like. Starting off a question with... Nice of you to choose to join us this year Mr Baker...

One positive...at least this board has the common sense not to be obsessed with diversity like some are...

Yes Beagle a warning sign....a red flag

I get the impression that Baker not as keen on Turners as he was and looking at how he can exit.

Maybe ASX was that path but ....

Maybe you won’t be able to be sarcastic at the next AGM beagle

[winner69]

There was some mention (like the Directors visits and a bit about how a few ozzies are holders) but I might have missed the detail on why the ASX listing has failed to fire..

Aussie just don’t see Turners as a good investment .....simple

[minimoke]

AGM.held 2015..16th September.
……………….2016..14th September
……………...2017..20th September.
2018 it was held a week later on 26th September.


Trend suggest an AGM in the week 17 - 21 was on the cards.

So for a start TRA delayed AGM by a week.

Given the 6 day variability (14 - 20th) you'd think you wouldn't go booking a non refundable trip 6 days either side of usual parameters.

And if he had booked a non-refundable holiday a year ago, thats plenty of time to organise an AGM around it.

I dont think there is any conspiracy theory - just poor form.

[Beagle]

Yes Beagle a warning sign....a red flag

I get the impression that Baker not as keen on Turners as he was and looking at how he can exit.

Maybe ASX was that path but ....

Maybe you won’t be able to be sarcastic at the next AGM beagle

Bad enough being muzzled once...

[percy]

There was some mention (like the Directors visits and a bit about how a few ozzies are holders) but I might have missed the detail on why the ASX listing has failed to fire..

Listen to the webcast.
Australian intos can only invest in ASX listed stocks.
As TRA are listed on ASX, Aussie intos can buy them.They have brought TRA in NZ.

[percy]

Aussie just don’t see Turners as a good investment .....simple

Some Australian intos are on the register.
Same as EBO,though few, if any shares trade in Aussie.
The intos buy/sell in NZ,however if either were not listed in Aussie the Aussie intos would not be allowed to buy them.

[winner69]

That's a scary thought...bad enough being muzzled once...

......was referring to the intended sarcastic remark to Baker ...he won’t be there

And I doubt whether you’ll be a shareholder this time next year ....even though you getting heaps of exceptionally cheap ones next week

[percy]

......was referring to the intended sarcastic remark to Baker ...he won’t be there

And I doubt whether you’ll be a shareholder this time next year ....even though you getting heaps of exceptionally cheap ones next week

W69.
Is Turners new Wellington yard open yet.?
Will you check it out and let us know what it is like please.?

[Beagle]

......was referring to the intended sarcastic remark to Baker ...he won’t be there

And I doubt whether you’ll be a shareholder this time next year ....even though you getting heaps of exceptionally cheap ones next week

Yes mate, that's what I was getting at. Him not being there had the effect of muzzling me a bit. Could have worked myself up a bit more about the whole thing if I could see the target...possibly a good thing I didn't...wouldn't have made any difference anyway...

I don't think the shares issued in exchange for bonds are going to be cheap at all. Not sure where the 5% discount to 90 day VWAP price will be but it will be a little lower than when I ran some analysis on it earlier this month and arrived at $2.94. My best guess is ~ $2.91.

Interesting that such a very high percentage of people investing in their new 3 year bond offer are new investors to Turners, announcement this morning. This comes on the back of only 50% of bondholders electing to convert to shares compared to 75% the previous time. This suggests that quite a significant proportion of bondholders asked for their money back in cash. (Keep in mind existing bondholders had preferential rights to new bonds) A fairly reasonable number of bondholders, (much higher than last time) appear to have decided the grass is greener in some other investment opportunity. Frustrated with returns anyone ?

Turners really a yield story with only quite moderate eps growth and long term headwinds as we move very slowly towards self driving ride share vehicles. Each to their own but this is not going to be a high conviction holding for me or a large one. Leave Percy to enjoy the sunshine up at the big end of the tent :)

[couta1]

I'm also enjoying that sunshine at the big end of the tent Beagle, having a few relaxing ciders waiting for the next juicy divvy, makes up a healthy but not greedy 9% of my portfolio.

[Beagle]

Well yesterday's barking has left me a little "horse" and tired. It takes a lot of energy to try and morph into a wolf you know :)

It is what it is..a reasonable hold with some modest eps growth in the foreseeable future trading of a cheap PE of less than 10 and a gross yield of ~8% but long term headwinds. I think there are better and a lot worse opportunities out there. I doubt anyone is going to get really rich out of this one and note Colonial Motors considerably better long term track record of creating shareholder wealth, also trading on very undemanding metrics.
Someone commented to me after the meeting that used cars is a tough game. I think that SUM's it up pretty well.

[couta1]

Well done Beagle for speaking up, I'm sure if Mr Baker had have been there you would have left a few teeth marks.

[Beagle]

Well done Beagle for speaking up, I'm sure if Mr Baker had have been there you would have left a few teeth marks.

Thanks mate. Maybe the real reason he didn't turn up was the wolf scared him off :)

[freddagg]

Disappointed there was no online voting option. Easy way to suppress votes from small shareholders. Glad you guys asked the questions that needed asking.

I have been overseas so was unable to vote against the increase in the Directors fees. Hope Grant filled out his form before he left.

Online voting was available. Just login to Computershare, quick and easy

[winner69]

W69.
Is Turners new Wellington yard open yet.?
Will you check it out and let us know what it is like please.?

Part of town to be avoided bur I’ll try to pass by in weekend

In meantime google says it’s open but Turners Call Centre says it’s not open yet and you need to go to Porirua.

[percy]

Part of town to be avoided bur I’ll try to pass by in weekend

In meantime google says it’s open but Turners Call Centre says it’s not open yet and you need to go to Porirua.

Thanks W69.

[RupertBear]

Well done Beagle for speaking up, I'm sure if Mr Baker had have been there you would have left a few teeth marks.

Yes thanks for speaking up Mr Beagle, I think he was dreading your well constructed question! He was pretty quick to move on!
Hope you still holding a few SKO Mr Beagle they are on fire today! :)

[Jaa]

Online voting was available. Just login to Computershare, quick and easy

Thanks Fred and Joshuatree, it must have gone to spam. Despite receiving a similar request to vote for EBOS's AGM from Computershare in the last month.

[BlackCross]

I was one of the bond holders that took the cash rather than shares or new bonds.
Two reasons. Not keen on the board and the shares are too 'consumer discretionary' for me at this stage of the market.

[Marilyn Munroe]

The winds of change are about to blow through the NZ car market. The storm driving these winds are off below the horizon but we will feel their force.

Presidents Trump/Xi now stand on the edge of the wharf demanding a steep tariff payment to land cars. Part of their plans to make America/China great again.

Car companies are now urgently trying to steer their way through this "greatness" while avoiding loosing their shirts.

Can you think of a country whose leader is preoccupied showing off the baby, trying to anticipate Winston Firsts next zig or zag and tutoring her cabinet ministers how to behave so doesn't have time to slap car imports with tariffs.

I'm sure the the same thoughts are rattling around inside the heads of car manufacturers executives. They will be making frantic calls to their assembly plants to put the steering wheel on the other side and ship em to NZ.

This wall of cars will transform the second hand car market from a cascading market to a clearance market. Is now the right time to be setting up used car sales yards?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS. How likely is it that NZ is so glutted with used cars we will have to ship them offshore to other right hand drive counties such as Bangladesh?

[Timesurfer]

Given the number of drivers that get their licence out of a wheatbix packet I am pretty sure we can rightoff the wall of cars required to keep global car manufacturing afloat.

[stoploss]

W69.
Is Turners new Wellington yard open yet.?
Will you check it out and let us know what it is like please.?
When I went by Friday , there is a container “office” in the middle of the yard and a load of temporary fencing around it .No cars in sight or onsite.

[winner69]

When I went by Friday , there is a container “office” in the middle of the yard and a load of temporary fencing around it .No cars in sight or onsite.

Thanks stoploss

Maybe waiting for the cricket season to start

Wonder how many Wellington City people bother go to Porirua now or just give Turnersca miss. At least Petone was reasonably close

[percy]

Thanks Stoploss and W69.
I was hopeful it would be up and trading gang busters by now...lol.
Look forward to your comments when it is up and running, as I rather like the concept.

I am noticing Turners online advertisinfg."100 more cars have arrived since you last visited our site."

[Beagle]

Confirmation of guidance and cessation of 90 day VWAP trading period for the bond conversion should be the catalysts for the SP to stabilize. Might see a modest rebound in October.

[janner]

Tomorrows fuel increases are going to do wonders for used car sales..

Probably going to add more to the already very noticeably increasing road side cheaper bargains.
As the punters take up " No Deposit " offers for new much more fuel efficient vehicles.

Disc. Minor Hold.

[winner69]

From AGM one thing they seemed awfully proud of was their active management of the insurance reserves they hold.

One of the highest investment returns in the world the Insurance guy said

Good while it works ......but some might say it’s not all the ‘prudent’ gambling with reserves

Wonder how they invest these reserves to get world class returns?

Maybe something for Snoopy to dig into

[winner69]

The Deputy Chairman to say their actuary was very conservative but not good form to (laughingly) add that management think far too conservative and then seek confirmation from management

[traineeinvestor]

From AGM one thing they seemed awfully proud of was their active management of the insurance reserves they hold.

One of the highest investment returns in the world the Insurance guy said

Good while it works ......but some might say it’s not all the ‘prudent’ gambling with reserves

Wonder how they invest these reserves to get world class returns?

Maybe something for Snoopy to dig into

That sort of comment reminds me of FAI - one of, if not the best, performing companies on the ASX in its day for just that reason ... it didn't end well.

[winner69]

Annual Report has photos of 6 Directors and 9 people in their Leadership Team

Except for the GM Human Resources all are white males. (HR people tend to be females for some strange reason)

The Deputy Chair clumsily and unconvincedly talked about always employing on merit and Diversity of Thinking is important. Worst justification of having an all male board I’ve heard. He even came with a quote to use and panicked a bit when he couldn’t find it.

How the heck can you have real Diversity of Thinking with the mix of people they’ve currently got.

No wonder share price is languishing

[Snoopy]

From AGM one thing they seemed awfully proud of was their active management of the insurance reserves they hold.

One of the highest investment returns in the world the Insurance guy said

Good while it works ......but some might say it’s not all the ‘prudent’ gambling with reserves

Wonder how they invest these reserves to get world class returns?

Maybe something for Snoopy to dig into

Winner, I think you might be referring to the $53.378m worth of 'Financial assets at fair value through profit or loss' which is on the balance sheet? Go to Note 11 and it is all broken down. The biggest item by far in that break down is $42.600m in term deposits, up from just $122k at the end of the previous year. Now flip over to Note 18 and look at the details on the acquisition of 'Autosure'. There you will see $33.378m of 'cash' that was banked on acquisition. That $33.378m in cash looked like the balance of insurance float cash held by 'Autosure'. Is there a connection with all of the cash brought onto the books with the purchase of 'Autosure', and the subsequent $42.600m of term deposits on the balance sheet or TRA a year later? Perhaps a few million dollars worth of insurance premiums have gone in since to explain the difference?

During the Turners Roadshow Meeting in Christchurch, I recall some remark about using the insurance nest egg cash to help develop properties for the wider Turners operation. The need could not be questioned, because Turners were developing these properties for themselves. So property development risk was effectively zero. I also recall that management would openly look at on selling these properties once the developments were complete. So the insurance cash, if that is what it is, would not be tied up long term. Faced with term deposit returns at low single figures at best, I don't see anything too wrong with doing some low risk 'in house' property development on the side. You might call this gambling. I would call it prudent and measured gambling. I don't think the sum of these developments proposed got anywhere near $40m of capital at risk at one time. And once the profit from a couple of these developments per year got added back into the insurance float, it isn't difficult to imagine the insurance float return might look 'world class'.

I am 'sleeping easy' with this one.

SNOOPY

[percy]

Annual Report has photos of 6 Directors and 9 people in their Leadership Team

Except for the GM Human Resources all are white males. (HR people tend to be females for some strange reason)

The Deputy Chair clumsily and unconvincedly talked about always employing on merit and Diversity of Thinking is important. Worst justification of having an all male board I’ve heard. He even came with a quote to use and panicked a bit when he couldn’t find it.

How the heck can you have real Diversity of Thinking with the mix of people they’ve currently got.

Paul Byrne's remarks were 100% correct.
Best person with the skills they require will get the job.
A very skilled capable board because of that..

[minimoke]

How the heck can you have real Diversity of Thinking with the mix of people they’ve currently got.

Do you have any research / information on gender as it relates to thinking competence? Perhaps you would like to see ATM's CEO on the Board.

[winner69]

Maybe this was the Mai Chen quote Paul couldn’t find -

“It is important to ensure that we have diversity and inclusion, that we have the whole talent pool at the table, and that discrimination is not preventing talented ‘diverse’ people from being appointed as directors and from contributing effectively once they are appointed,”

Bold my doing ....not saying they are being discrimatory but excluding the HR person 100% mix of white males does make you wonder.

[Beagle]

Do you have any research / information on gender as it relates to thinking competence? Perhaps you would like to see ATM's CEO on the Board.

LOL well said mate. I for one would be "thrilled"

[Beagle]

Tomorrows fuel increases are going to do wonders for used car sales..

Probably going to add more to the already very noticeably increasing road side cheaper bargains.
As the punters take up " No Deposit " offers for new much more fuel efficient vehicles.

Disc. Minor Hold.

Provided you can afford to run them there's some really good bargains with used V8 powered cars now. The fuel thing is really starting to get under some people's skin, especially in Auckland but of course its actually much worse in remote parts of the country. Smaller fuel efficient cars are going up in price and anyone with a V8 might as well not bother trying to trade it in at present. The recently enacted families package increases should make a meaningful difference to Turners typical client. I am / was hopeful this might lead to a slightly lower level of delinquent and poorly performing loans going forward but whether this is a realistic hope I am not so sure.

Speaking with my good mate's wife who has done years of work with poor families mainly in South Auckland she said many of the poverty issues are to do with ingrained habits and addictions. Often these are intergenerational learned behaviors. In other words if someone has a problem with alcohol, smoking, drugs, gambling or such like giving them more money doesn't increase the likelihood that they'll make their car repayments on time, its actually more likely to exacerbate their existing problems and addictions and could in many cases be exactly the wrong thing.

I think those poorly performing MTF referred loans will not show much, if any improvement in delinquency rate as a result of the significant increases in support from the families package that kicked off on 1 July 2018 and Turners are dead right to tighten up their credit criteria. If people don't respects the whole loan and repayment thing, (the no asset procedure is a real risk for low level car loans) there's no point initiating with them in the first place.

[couta1]

Do you have any research / information on gender as it relates to thinking competence? Perhaps you would like to see ATM's CEO on the Board. No way keep that Trougher away from here, send her over to TGH/MPG or PEB she can't do much more harm to the SP of any of those three.

[forest]

Maybe this was the Mai Chen quote Paul couldn’t find -

“It is important to ensure that we have diversity and inclusion, that we have the whole talent pool at the table, and that discrimination is not preventing talented ‘diverse’ people from being appointed as directors and from contributing effectively once they are appointed,”

Bold my doing ....not saying they are being discriminatory but excluding the HR person 100% mix of white males does make you wonder.

Winner it seems to me that TRA got some diverse thinking not often found on company boards, 2 directors who not necessarily attend meetings.
That is right TWO, it is not just Grant Baker who did not turn up to the AGM what bothers me but also the new director let slip that he would make an effort to attend at least every quarterly meeting. He might miss more meeting than he attend in person.
Sounds like a diversity at TRA also found in the general population, some motivated and some freeloaders.
TRA got no worries when it comes to lack of diversity on the board. :)

[winner69]

Last Annual Report included this —



The Turners Board adopted a Diversity and Inclusion Policy in September 2017 (a copy of which is available on the Turners website). The Board is responsible for setting measurable objectives for promoting diversity and inclusion within the Company and will do so from FY19 onwards


As an equal opportunity employer it will be interesting to see what measurable objectives they set and how they performed against them

[Beagle]

Winner it seems to me that TRA got some diverse thinking not often found on company boards, 2 directors who not necessarily attend meetings.
That is right TWO, it is not just Grant Baker who did not turn up to the AGM what bothers me but also the new director let slip that he would make an effort to attend at least every quarterly meeting. He might miss more meeting than he attend in person.
Sounds like a diversity at TRA also found in the general population, some motivated and some freeloaders.
TRA got no worries when it comes to lack of diversity on the board. :)

Great post, what you're encouraging here is diversity in thought about the way we conceptualize what diversity means, well done !
Personally I like the way they don't pander to the PC brigade.

[forest]

Great post, what you're encouraging here is diversity in thought about the way we conceptualize what diversity means, well done !
Personally I like the way they don't pander to the PC brigade.

Fully agree with you Beagle to much time spend pandering these days.

[minimoke]

Bold my doing ....not saying they are being discrimatory but excluding the HR person 100% mix of white males does make you wonder.You dont think its kinda offensive excluding the woman to make your statistics fit?
But lets look at their diversity. Some are older and some are younger. Some are fully sighted and some arent. Some are fully hair folickeled and others not so. Can they all think? Well they are bright enough to scheme a payrise so doing better than most of the population.


Theres six people on the board. I dont spot a one legged one, nor a gay one (oops am I allowed to say that?), a foreign one, nor a turban wearing one, nor a religious one, nor an indigenous one, nor a breasted one, nor a young un, nor a poor one, nor an infirm one, nor a lesbian one (cos you cant have a gay without a lesbian - that wouldn't be rightful thinking), nor a Green Environmentalist one. Hang on a moment - how big would you like this Board to be to that it is properly diverse? ( I'll bet that any of the aforementioned are equally able to think of ways of sticking their snout in the trough - so what would you like that differentiates them as worthy Board Members)

[winner69]

Great post, what you're encouraging here is diversity in thought about the way we conceptualize what diversity means, well done !
Personally I like the way they don't pander to the PC brigade.

Seems that their thinking is so ‘blinkered’ when it comes to diversity they’ll never be accused of pandering to the PC brigade ....that should please you beagle

[percy]

Great post, what you're encouraging here is diversity in thought about the way we conceptualize what diversity means, well done !
Personally I like the way they don't pander to the PC brigade.

Beagle.
A word to the wise.
Don't ask W69 to attend the CMO agm with you...……………………..lol.

[Beagle]

Seems that their thinking is so ‘blinkered’ when it comes to diversity they’ll never be accused of pandering to the PC brigade ....that should please you beagle, bit sad really

Some companies are taking things too far Winner. You know which companies I am referring too. This hound has indulged in some very nice cars over the years and to be honest for whatever reason, with the very occasional exception based on what I have observed its a male dominated industry. I think the board composition is the reality of the car industry....the new Singaporean based director looks like he might have an interesting heritage, does that not keep you somewhat happy ?
Probably best we leave it there rather than drag this thread any further off on a tangent, in my opinion.

[Beagle]

Beagle.
A word to the wise.
Don't ask W69 to attend the CMO agm with you...……………………..lol.

:lol: :lol:

[winner69]

Winner it seems to me that TRA got some diverse thinking not often found on company boards, 2 directors who not necessarily attend meetings.
That is right TWO, it is not just Grant Baker who did not turn up to the AGM what bothers me but also the new director let slip that he would make an effort to attend at least every quarterly meeting. He might miss more meeting than he attend in person.
Sounds like a diversity at TRA also found in the general population, some motivated and some freeloaders.
TRA got no worries when it comes to lack of diversity on the board. :)

I note Baker was absent from 3 of the 12 Board meetings last year.

Can’t be bothered coming to AGM

Gives appearance he’s lost interest in Turners. Didn’t turn out the way he hoped?

[trader_jackson]

anybody work out the cheap price we'll get the shares issued at?

[forest]

I note Baker was absent from 3 of the 12 Board meetings last year.

Can’t be bothered coming to AGM

Gives appearance he’s lost interest in Turners. Didn’t turn out the way he hoped?


Makes sense Winner, if Grant misses a board meeting and has not got the motivation for the directorship then he is not likely part of setting a date for the next meeting. And this increases the chance he misses the next one.
And is it not annoying when your are part of a board and meetings get slowed down because discussions get repeated to update members who missed previous once.

[minimoke]

I note Baker was absent from 3 of the 12 Board meetings last year.

Didnt I hear at the AGM all the Directors are very hard workers putting in a couple of extra hours per board meeting?

[RTM]

I note Baker was absent from 3 of the 12 Board meetings last year.

Can’t be bothered coming to AGM

Gives appearance he’s lost interest in Turners. Didn’t turn out the way he hoped?

Pure speculation along the lines recently suggested re Chris Luxon (AIR NZ)
Fake news Winner.

[forest]

Didnt I hear at the AGM all the Directors are very hard workers putting in a couple of extra hours per board meeting?

Yeah that is right, repeating part of the last meeting to update the wagging director(s) from previous meeting can easily take a couple of hours.

[percy]

Yeah that is right, repeating part of the last meeting to update the wagging director(s) from previous meeting can easily take a couple of hours.
Hardly likely with directors having skin in the game.
Grant Baker...……………........7.02%
Paul Byrnes...………....………..3.08%
Matthew Harrison [family]...8.02%
Alister Petrie,[Bartel]..........7.95%

[stoploss]

Percy , went past last night , couple of very bright "Turners Cars" signs on top of the container . Still surrounded by temporary fencing,no cars ...

[forest]

Hardly likely with directors having skin in the game.
Grant Baker...……………........7.02%
Paul Byrnes...………....………..3.08%
Matthew Harrison [family]...8.02%
Alister Petrie,[Bartel]..........7.95%


Percy I agree with you that with the amount those directors have invested in TRA one would expect a focused and motivated board.
However what I sense is a very low energy bunch of board members.
Not turning up for meetings in my view is very disrespectful to the shareholders and fellow directors and makes me wonder about commitment when difficult decisions need to be made. Turning up on the job sure must be an expectation we can have.
The wagging kids at my school were never the best performers.

[winner69]

Percy I agree with you that with the amount those directors have invested in TRA one would expect a focused and motivated board.
However what I sense is a very low energy bunch of board members.
Not turning up for meetings in my view is very disrespectful to the shareholders and fellow directors and makes me wonder about commitment when difficult decisions need to be made. Turning up on the job sure must be an expectation we can have.
The wagging kids at my school were never the best performers.

Love how you put it ....esp the wagging kids bit

[winner69]

Did I hear PB (getting matey now) say at the AGM that EPS is only one measure .....sort of saying that it’s not all that important.

[Beagle]

Percy I agree with you that with the amount those directors have invested in TRA one would expect a focused and motivated board.
However what I sense is a very low energy bunch of board members.
Not turning up for meetings in my view is very disrespectful to the shareholders and fellow directors and makes me wonder about commitment when difficult decisions need to be made. Turning up on the job sure must be an expectation we can have.
The wagging kids at my school were never the best performers.

Well said, I couldn't agree more. Honestly I wish I'd known that he'd only attended 9 board meetings out of 12 going into the meeting. I would have yapped up a real storm about that in light of him not bothering to attend the meeting This sort of "performance" during the year is supportive of my theory that he deliberately chose not to attend. Why else would the highly experienced deputy chair look so incredibly nervous and defensive...its not like its his first public meeting is it !

Anyway...I reckon the market has forgiven and moved on. The worm has appeared to turn and the $2.80 bottom held yet again. Evidence from last time the bonds converted (a type of capital raise and every other recent capital raise) suggests we'll see a good recovery in the SP this month.
Bond conversion should be somewhere in the low 290's in my opinion.

[trader_jackson]

Bond conversion should be somewhere in the low 290's in my opinion.

I reckon it could be around the mid or high $2.80's
When do we know what the price is and do the shares get issued again?

[percy]

Percy , went past last night , couple of very bright "Turners Cars" signs on top of the container . Still surrounded by temporary fencing,no cars ...

Thanks stoploss.

[Beagle]

I reckon it could be around the mid or high $2.80's
When do we know what the price is and do the shares get issued again?

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TNR/290172/245033.pdf
3 October last time so I'd expect timing pretty similar this time around. Note the conversion price last time.

[winner69]

Last year 12 Board meetings

Baker attended 9
Vriens attended 10
Petrie attended 11
Rest didn’t wag any meetings

From AR

[percy]

Percy I agree with you that with the amount those directors have invested in TRA one would expect a focused and motivated board.
However what I sense is a very low energy bunch of board members.
Not turning up for meetings in my view is very disrespectful to the shareholders and fellow directors and makes me wonder about commitment when difficult decisions need to be made. Turning up on the job sure must be an expectation we can have.
The wagging kids at my school were never the best performers.

As well as the shareholder notice of 11th June, with the In Specie distribution, Grant Baker's shareholder notice of 19th June stated he spent another $1,516,611.18 buying another 500,000 TRA shares.
Now that can not be said to be wagging school, or fornicating behind the bike sheds.!

[winner69]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TNR/290172/245033.pdf
3 October last time so I'd expect timing pretty similar this time around. Note the conversion price last time.

Be spooky if it was $2.945 again

Wonder if share price is still about this time next year?

[forest]

As well as the shareholder notice of 11th June, with the In Specie distribution, Grant Baker's shareholder notice of 19th June stated he spent another $1,516,611.18 buying another 500,000 TRA shares.
Now that can not be said to be wagging school, or fornicating behind the bike sheds.!

:) , You right Percy, it is not all negative. It is just that I like people to turn up to the job and when the new director Martin Berry said he would make an effort to attend at least an quarter of the board meetings in person I was shocked. Seems like this wagging is contagious and spreading, I expect more commitment than "I will put some effort in".

Ofcourse one can look at TRA got this far without Martin Berry so he is maybe not that important.

[percy]

:) , You right Percy, it is not all negative. It is just that I like people to turn up to the job and when the new director Martin Berry said he would make an effort to attend at least an quarter of the board meetings in person I was shocked. I expect more commitment than "I will put some effort in".

Ofcourse one can look at TRA got this far without Martin Berry so he is maybe not that important.
Look at the board's skill set.
Martin Berry has brought skills to Turners the board wants.
Board members spend a lot of time on those companies business.Board meetings are only a part of it.
Offcourse I would like to see Martin loading up with shares.It may or may not happen,but it is his skill set,and contacts that will benefit Turners.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

:) , You right Percy, it is not all negative. It is just that I like people to turn up to the job and when the new director Martin Berry said he would make an effort to attend at least an quarter of the board meetings in person I was shocked. Seems like this wagging is contagious and spreading, I expect more commitment than "I will put some effort in".

Ofcourse one can look at TRA got this far without Martin Berry so he is maybe not that important.

Martin is based in Singapore. I think it's perfectly reasonable he only attends 1/4 of the meetings in person. The rest of them he can video call in for.

[minimoke]

Martin is based in Singapore. I think it's perfectly reasonable he only attends 1/4 of the meetings in person. The rest of them he can video call in for.Ooh - a Singaporean. Now there's a bit of diversity.

[LAC]

With technology there are a lot of way to attend meetings effectively without being there in person. I would have liked Turners to have had a proper video solution in place as they knew Grant would not be there in person. And should have been Grants responsibility to get a decent internet connection for a couple hours.
I think Spark now to a video wall solution out the box - maybe something to look at in future meetings etc.
I have to agree I didnt like the fact the Chairman was not on-site but I think a better video solution should have been sort instead of Grand listening in and not uttering a word. He was very segregated and didnt join any of the conversations. Not being there didnt mean he should have stayed silent....my opinion. He might as well just watched the Youtube feed if he was planning on not being involved in discussion esp when the step in chairman was trying to defend him not being there. Made no sense to me, talking on behalf of someone that was available to talk....

[percy]

Ooh - a Singaporean. Now there's a bit of diversity.

But wait there is more...…!!

He did apologise for being an Australian...!!

Maybe taking diversity a bit too far.?

[forest]

Look at the board's skill set.
Martin Berry has brought skills to Turners the board wants.
Board members spend a lot of time on those companies business.Board meetings are only a part of it.
Offcourse I would like to see Martin loading up with shares.It may or may not happen,but it is his skill set,and contacts that will benefit Turners.

The end of the day we do not know if the board members put a lot of effort in or not, it is hard to judge them most of the time.
All I can do is observe their enthusiasm in the company, I must have sensed that at a lower level than yourself.

Some directors have serious money invested, some have a more token amount and a couple have no shares at all. So a mix bag on this front.

To me there seem to be room for improvement on this board.

[percy]

The end of the day we do not know if the board members put a lot of effort in or not, it is hard to judge them most of the time.
All I can do is observe their enthusiasm in the company, I must have sensed that at a lower level than yourself.

Some directors have serious money invested, some have a more token amount and a couple have no shares at all. So a mix bag on this front.

To me there seem to be room for improvement on this board.

This Turners board would be the envy of a great many companies.
I am most impressed.They have laid strong foundations for a great company.[it will show in a year or two]
Paul Byrne in particular. He was offcourse Hugh Green's appointment.

[minimoke]

This Turners board would be the envy of a great many companies.
I am most impressed.They have laid strong foundations for a great company.[it will show in a year or two]
Paul Byrne in particular. He was offcourse Hugh Green's appointment.Right. Time for me to be a Perky Polly.

Kudos to this board. After two years they have nearly succeeded in returning the share price to Oct 2016 levels.

Give yourselves a payrise - its well earnt.


As for you Negative Nelly's - step back from the keyboard. SP is so low no there is only one way for it to go and that is up.

[winner69]

But wait there is more...…!!

He did apologise for being an Australian...!!
7
Maybe taking diversity a bit too far.?

What like about Berry is that he runs a venture capital outfit and no doubt has a great network across ANZ and Asia.



This coupled with his successful track record of acquiring and selling several companies could be just Baker wants — his exit plan or maybe get somebody to them over

Just speculation ..but you never know

[Snoopy]

From AGM one thing they seemed awfully proud of was their active management of the insurance reserves they hold.

One of the highest investment returns in the world the Insurance guy said

Good while it works ......but some might say it’s not all the ‘prudent’ gambling with reserves

Wonder how they invest these reserves to get world class returns?

Maybe something for Snoopy to dig into


I make a point of not taking any Turners result at face value. It seems inevitable that once you delve into the results something comes out a bit smelly. And so it has proved with the FY2018 result. The key to 'cleaning out the garbage' is once again found under note 7 (the detail of the 'Profit Before Tax', and in particular the section marked 'Other Income'..

There you will find a very significant figure of $2.664m which is a 'Fair Value Gain on Contingent Consideration.'

Say what??? If there is a heading you can't understand, it often pays to look under the general heading of 'insurance' for further clarification. That took the nose of this hound to p76, and the heading 'Insurance Contracts' threw up the following detail.



Change in Discount rate 3.08% to 2.61% (Insurance Contracts)-$0.120m


Difference between Actual and Assumed Experience (Insurance Contracts)$2.491m


Difference between Actual and Assumed Experience (Life Investments)$0.294m


Total$2.665m



Within the bounds of the third decimal place rounding error, this is in agreement with the $2.664m which is a 'Fair Value Gain on Contingent Consideration.' I don't think this is a co-incidence. While this extra profit is real, I believe it is due to the ups and downs of markets and/or settlements of insurance contracts. These kinds of gains are not sustainable year to year. So the underlying profit for TRA was significantly less than the headline figure quoted. The same can be said for the money made on the 'revaluation gains on investments', 'revaluation gain on investment property' and the 'gain on sale of property plant and equipment'. In my judgement the actual comparable net profit gain, the figure that should be used when comparing results from year to year should be adjusted from the headline figure as follows:

Operating Net Profit = $23.192m - 0.72x$2.664m - ($0.590m+$0.820m+$1.000m) = $19.085m which is 18% lower than the headline figure.

With 84.802m shares on issue at balance date this equates to 'earnings per share' of 22.5cps

At today's trading price of $2.94, this puts TRA on an historical PE of 13.0


Before this insurance gain discussion is forgotten, I want to point out that I have already taken the insurance portfolio performance out of the headline TRA result. This significantly reduces the earnings as declared and puts TRA on an historical PE of 13.0. It also means the modest increase in profitability that Turners look to book for FY2019 is actually quite a stretch target. Will they deliver? Time will tell!

SNOOPY

[Beagle]

Before this insurance gain discussion is forgotten, I want to point out that I have already taken the insurance portfolio performance out of the headline TRA result. This significantly reduces the earnings as declared and puts TRA on an historical PE of 13.0. It also means the modest increase in profitability that Turners look to book for FY2019 is actually quite a stretch target. Will they deliver? Time will tell!

SNOOPY

So even with new share issuance last year my weighted average forecast eps growth of 4.5% expected for FY19 understates the normalized forecast weighted average EPS growth. Good snooping, Snoopy.

[Jaa]

Having two directors based in Singapore seems a bit silly to me. Aside from the travelling and communication issues, this is a country where most people don't own a car and where there is almost no second hand car market.

Maybe they will have some insights into the Australian expansion and the insurance business but is this enough? What do they know about the credit risk of Turners working class customers in Wellington, Hawkes Bay or Auckland?

Good question for the next AGM, someone ask a director when the last time they bought a second hand car was (either for themselves or someone else).

Maybe Winner is right and the focus will be on taking the company private or selling it?

[winner69]

So the cheap shares are $2.85

Well done on picking them up

[blackcap]

$2.85 per share

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/324698/287842.pdf

[Beagle]

I reckon it could be around the mid or high $2.80's
When do we know what the price is and do the shares get issued again?

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/324698/287842.pdf

Bond conversion price set at $2.85 and shares issued. I'm happy with that, cheaper price than I expected.

[blackcap]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/324698/287842.pdf

Bond conversion price set at $2.85 and shares issued. I'm happy with that, cheaper price than I expected.

Yeah me too but mine come on market tomorrow....

[Beagle]

Checked the share register and shares have been applied to my name, checked the bank and interest for the quarter has been credited and now I'm looking forward to the quarterly dividend in about a month or so. Good day to be a former bondholder...its been a long time between drinks though.

[percy]

Having two directors based in Singapore seems a bit silly to me. Aside from the travelling and communication issues, this is a country where most people don't own a car and where there is almost no second hand car market.

Maybe they will have some insights into the Australian expansion and the insurance business but is this enough? What do they know about the credit risk of Turners working class customers in Wellington, Hawkes Bay or Auckland?

Good question for the next AGM, someone ask a director when the last time they bought a second hand car was (either for themselves or someone else).

Maybe Winner is right and the focus will be on taking the company private or selling it?

The current share price leaves the company ripe to be taken over.in my opinion..

[moka]

Do you have any research / information on gender as it relates to thinking competence? Perhaps you would like to see ATM's CEO on the Board.

Gender diversity is an antidote to group think. Devil’s Advocate – that won’t work! or Angel’s Advocate – what could make it work?

http://www.fireitupwithcj.com/core-competencies-of-women
"Many women see the world through a Relational lens of relationship and demonstrate competencies of “connecting the dots” systems thinking, multi-tasking, and sharing information to create new information.

Many men see the world through an Individualistic lens of status and independence, that give us traditional competencies of prioritized, linear thinking, focus on one thing at a time, and sharing information only as needed.

The everyday practice of playing Devil’s Advocate is the ability to poke holes and find faults using deductive reasoning to bullet proof an idea. As one Individualistic Executive of a local space agency said to me, “We do science here, Devil’s Advocate is science.”

Point out that you bring another competency, Collaboration or Angel’s Advocate, to build on an idea with “what could make it work” and “what else is possible with the idea,” using inductive reasoning. You frame a competency that is otherwise invisible, unarticulated and unrewarded.

The first time I did an exercise to practice both Devil’s Advocate and Angel’s Advocate, two men who had been working on an environmental engineering problem together, came up with a solution they had not thought of before. This drove home, to me, just how foreign Angel’s Advocate collaboration can be."

[minimoke]

Gender diversity is an antidote to group think. Devil’s Advocate – that won’t work! or Angel’s Advocate – what could make it work?

http://www.fireitupwithcj.com/core-competencies-of-women
"Many women see the world through a Relational lens of relationship and demonstrate competencies of “connecting the dots” systems thinking, multi-tasking, and sharing information to create new information.Depends on your lens

If you use the Ravens Progressive Matrices (which looks at abstract logical reasoning using a non-verbal test) you now get men and women scoring essentially the same. With some difference coming from nationality.

The Board is correct in looking for "thinkers".

If you go down the Male / female route your risk (without assessment) picking up a low scoring female and a high scoring male. Or vice versa.

The trouble of course with Ravens (and this is where I may get into trouble) is research suggests there is differences between ethnicities / races. For example a study using British with a mean score of 100, white americans scores 98, Mestizoe scored 98.3 and native Mexicans scored 83.3. So, arguably you dont want diversity based on race / nationality.

So what does this mean locally. One piece of local research shows Maori score lower (0.55 standard deviation) than European on verbal reasoning and 1.79 standard deviations on numerical business analysis*See "Ethnic group differences in cognitive ability test scores within a New Zealand applicant sample")

When you start sticking labels on things this "diversity" thing turns into quite the rabbit hole.

[winner69]

Good sign for you Turner ‘investors’ — my neighbour (and probably his bowling mates) have sold the rest of their Turners shares (at a loss)

They’ve topped up on OCA. Some of them had a look around Village in the Park and were impressed so think Oceania is the bee’s knees of retirement villages. I told him it was actually an Arvida village ....bugger

[percy]

Good sign for you Turner ‘investors’ — my neighbour (and probably his bowling mates) have sold the rest of their Turners shares (at a loss)

They’ve topped up on OCA. Some of them had a look around Village in the Park and were impressed so think Oceania is the bee’s knees of retirement villages. I told him it was actually an Arvida village ....bugger
Thanks W69.
Fantastic news.

[winner69]

The current share price leaves the company ripe to be taken over.in my opinion..

They say it’s undervalued by the market. If they are a retail

One comment Byrnes made the other day was that those shareholders who have held for some years have done really well. Think he mentioned the word rich as well.

Another reason to think that maybe some exit plans being worked on by some big shareholders

Could be the next Get out of Jail Free card on the NZX

[Beagle]

They say it’s undervalued by the market. If they are a retail

One comment Byrnes made the other day was that those shareholders who have held for some years have done really well. Think he mentioned the word rich as well.

Another reason to think that maybe some exit plans being worked on by some big shareholders

Could be the next Get out of Jail Free card on the NZX

I think that was a very poorly considered remark as the shares have woefully underperformed the NZX50 for many, many years. In fact one needs to consider that as far back as 6 years ago in Nov 2012 on an adjusted basis for the subsequent 10:1 share consolidation the shares were trading at $2.70. How any director could be proud of the SP performance is beyond my comprehension. Sure some may have done okay if they bought in post GFC days nearly a decade ago but that's ancient history and deserves to stay in the past not something directors have any right to crow about now in my opinion.

[minimoke]

One comment Byrnes made the other day was that those shareholders who have held for some years have done really well. Think he mentioned the word rich as well.


Maybe he could reflect on how well the share price has done since listing on the Big ASX market.

[winner69]

I didn’t finish the sentence ...distracted

They say one reason for being undervalued is that TRA is seen as retail

If seen as retail currently fair value

If seen as an integrated automotive financial services group probably fair value as well.

[winner69]

I think that was a very poorly considered remark as the shares have woefully underperformed the NZX50 for many, many years. In fact one needs to consider that as far back as 6 years ago in Nov 2012 on an adjusted basis for the subsequent 10:1 share consolidation the shares were trading at $2.70. How any director could be proud of the SP performance is beyond my comprehension. Sure some may have done okay if they bought in post GFC days nearly a decade ago but that's ancient history and deserves to stay in the past not something directors have any right to crow about now in my opinion.

That’s the Dorchester view .....maybe some (insiders) still see it as Dorchester with a car yard attached

Maybe that’s why the market ‘undervalues’ them

[forest]

[QUOTE=winner69;731708]They say it’s undervalued by the market. If they are a retail

I thought it was unprofessional of directors to comment on the share price of companies they representing.

If the directors really believe the share price is undervalued why not just simply have an share buyback.
Instead of spending money on an Aussie listing in the hope the Aussies push the SP up.

An substantial buyback is more likely to give share holders the confidence the directors are looking for.

[winner69]

[QUOTE=winner69;731708]They say it’s undervalued by the market. If they are a retail

I thought it was unprofessional of directors to comment on the share price of companies they representing.

If the directors really believe the share price is undervalued why not just simply have an share buyback.
Instead of spending money on an Aussie listing in the hope the Aussies push the SP up.

An substantial buyback is more likely to give share holders the confidence the directors are looking for.

Maybe they don’t enough spare cash for that

Don’t think you can use insurance reserves (the float) for that sort of thing .....but don’t give them ideas

[percy]

So many negative posts.?
Need a lot more to shake my strong "conviction".
I trust my own research.

ps.Well done ANZ Securities,having updated the right number of TRA shares on issue.89,480,315.

[winner69]

I was most impressed with the enthusiasm shown by one person at the AGM when he expalined that car sales go up when the minimum wage goes up and that is supported research in the United States.

He sounded really excited

Family support should help

[forest]

[QUOTE=winner69;

Maybe they don’t enough spare cash for that

Don’t think you can use insurance reserves (the float) for that sort of thing .....but don’t give them ideas[/QUOTE]

My way of thinking is if a company can not buy some of their own shares back because of financial restraints then the company is financially sailing too close to the wind or the story "our shares are undervalued " they do not really believe themself.
I note 2 directors, Martin Berry and Anthony Vriens seemingly do not believe the TRA share price is a bargain as neither have a shareholding in the company.

So the question in my mind is "which directors are the clever ones, the ones with a shareholding or the ones who do not even have a token amount invested?"

[forest]

Sorry Percy, I am not trying to shake your conviction. It is just that some of the observations do not give me much confidence.
Often when I lose confidence in a company I move on to the next one, in this case I post my concern to see if others can ease them.:)

[Beagle]

If they can pay 16.5 cps this year fully imputed that's 16.5 / 0.72 = 22.92 cps gross which gives a gross yield of 7.8%. Interestingly at a 55% payout ratio and if eps is 30.6 cps this year that would equate to 16.83 cps in dividends or 23.375 cps gross and lift the yield to 7.95% at $2.94.

My recommendation to the board to fix the SP if they believe its undervalued is as follows.
Lift the payout ratio to the same level Colonial Motors use which is 65% and contemporaneously initiate a dividend reinvestment plan with say a 3% discount to five day ex divvy vwap as the exercise price for those that choose to reinvest their dividends.
This could actually be cash flow positive for the company as I would think that a moderate lift in the dividend payout ratio would easily be covered by those looking for a further reinvestment opportunity. (I also note that all previous capital raises have been done at more than a 3% discount to VWAP so this is a more cost effective way to raise capital)

At a ~ 65% payout ratio fully imputed if they can earn eps of 30.6 cps this year that would represent 19.89 cps, call it 20 cps which with full imputation credits would be 20 / 0.72 = 27.77 cps gross and the gross yield becomes 27.77 / 294 = 9.45%. More people would then be inclined toward owning it as a high yield opportunity.


Maybe I should flick a copy of this post to Todd Hunter - thoughts folks ?

[LAC]

If they can pay 16.5 cps this year fully imputed that's 16.5 / 0.72 = 22.92 cps gross which gives a gross yield of 7.8%. Interestingly at a 55% payout ratio and if eps is 30.6 cps this year that would equate to 16.83 cps in dividends or 23.375 cps gross and lift the yield to 7.95% at $2.94.

My recommendation to the board to fix the SP if they believe its undervalued is as follows.
Lift the payout ratio to the same level Colonial Motors use which is 65% and contemporaneously initiate a dividend reinvestment plan with say a 3% discount to five day ex divvy vwap as the exercise price for those that choose to reinvest their dividends.
This could actually be cash flow positive for the company as I would think that a moderate lift in the dividend payout ratio would easily be covered by those looking for a further reinvestment opportunity. (I also note that all previous capital raises have been done at more than a 3% discount to VWAP so this is a more cost effective way to raise capital)

At a ~ 65% payout ratio fully imputed if they can earn eps of 30.6 cps this year that would represent 19.89 cps, call it 20 cps which with full imputation credits would be 20 / 0.72 = 27.77 cps gross and the gross yield becomes 27.77 / 294 = 9.45%. More people would then be inclined toward owning it as a high yield opportunity.


Maybe I should flick a copy of this post to Todd Hunter - thoughts folks ?

I think you should, I am up for that. I think at 65% there should be more interest by divie hunters

[winner69]

Good question for the next AGM, someone ask a director when the last time they bought a second hand car was (either for themselves or someone else

Byrnes not a car salesman either ......at least how he tried to sell a few at the end of the AGM

Not a good effort at all ...but we’ll forgive him, after all he’s an accountant

[winner69]

So ~4.6 million shares issued to those who converted their bonds

But ~2.8 million shares went to Bartel

Add Beagles lot sort of says not many converted their bonds to shares ......a lack of confidence in the future or a vote of no confidence.

[winner69]

They seemed really pleased that the bond conversion to shares was over 50%


Turners Chairman Grant Baker commented:
“We are very pleased with the conversion rate of over 50% which reflects the market confidence in the Group’s strategy. It further strengthens Turners’ capital position and will support growth initiatives across the Group.”

Take Bartel out and the conversion rate was only about 19%

Shows real market confidence eh ...but a good story though

[Beagle]

They seemed really pleased that the bond conversion to shares was over 50%


Turners Chairman Grant Baker commented:
“We are very pleased with the conversion rate of over 50% which reflects the market confidence in the Group’s strategy. It further strengthens Turners’ capital position and will support growth initiatives across the Group.”

Take Bartel out and the conversion rate was only about 19%

Shows real market confidence eh ...but a good story though

Conversion rate was 75% last time and now the non in-specie conversion rate to new shares is just 19%. Speaking of 19% that's about the number of existing shareholders that took part in the new bond issue, about 81% new bondholders. Good they got that new bond issue filled, I wondered if they would for a while there.

What does suggest to us ?
1. Grant Baker was "highly creative" when talking about market confidence, he must be absolutely gutted as to how most existing share and bondholders have by and large basically shunned the bond conversion and new bond issue.
2. Existing shareholders in Turners with the obvious exception of a few like Percy, are by and large disenfranchised with how the company is performing and not really "buying" the growth story at all.

One would hope there's more credibility behind their profit forecast than what's apparent by Grant Baker's assertion of market confidence.

[winner69]

Good sign that big shareholder Bartel (with Director representation on the Board) converted $8m of Bonds to shares

Interesting they were such strong supporters of that $25m bond offer. Wonder how much they put into the latest one

[percy]

Good sign that big shareholder Bartel (with Director representation on the Board) converted $8m of Bonds to shares

Interesting they were such strong supporters of that $25m bond offer. Wonder how much they put into the latest one

Solid endorsement.
Added to share purchases over the past few months by The Chairman Grant Baker,directors Paul Byrne and John Roberts,together with CEO, Todd Hunter,the picture is simple; insiders are adding to their holdings.
Sends a very clear message.[which members of a certain bowling club missed.]..lol.

[winner69]

Bartel had $8m to invest in Turners at 30/9/16

Bought bonds and got 6.5% pa so 13.0% increase over 2 years

If bought shares — Share price $3.06 then and $2.95 at 30/9/18 so loss of $0.11 but divies of $0.30 giving net return of $0.19 or 6.2% over the 2 years

Even allowing for tax the bonds were in hindsight were the better investment because share price been abysmal

Weird eh for such a well run growth company ....must be a story there sometime

Hopefully next 2 years will be better

[percy]

Insiders never buy shares "in hope".

[Beagle]

They seemed really pleased that the bond conversion to shares was over 50%


Turners Chairman Grant Baker commented:
“We are very pleased with the conversion rate of over 50% which reflects the market confidence in the Group’s strategy. It further strengthens Turners’ capital position and will support growth initiatives across the Group.”

Take Bartel out and the conversion rate was only about 19%

Shows real market confidence eh ...but a good story though

Makes you wonder who was smashing shares out at $2.80 in big volume to get the VWAP conversion down doesn't it. Interestingly almost as soon as I mentioned something very strange was going on in this regard on this forum and that I was considering referring the matter to the NZX and FMA the seller smashing the price down stopped selling apart from one big 600K share crossing.
I think there are reasonable grounds to suspect something untoward was going on late in late September, late in the 90 day VWAP period.

Someone engineering a better conversion price for their massive bondholding ?...I think its clear where that trail of breadcrumbs leads.

The other thing I have been pondering that I am not entirely comfortable with is that they admitted at the annual meeting that it had been a tough Q1. Funny thing is they had this huge national roadshow of rah rah revving things up and nothing was mentioned then about a tough Q1 back then even though Q1 had already happened. Further, when I asked Todd Hunter at the first meeting of that roadshow how Q1 had gone he was very dismissive and shut me down very quickly and wouldn't give any insight whatsoever. I think they knew things hadn't gone that well in Q1 at that time, they just didn't want to tell.

Add in Grant Baker not attending the annual meeting and the huge increase in directors fees and its fair to say this company makes me feel a little bit uneasy like something is not quite right.

Percy, regarding your post directly above, let me be clear, I think there are good grounds to believe the bond conversion price was somewhat "engineered".

[percy]

[QUOTE=Beagle;732431.

Percy, regarding your post directly above, let me be clear, I think there are good grounds to believe the bond conversion price was somewhat "engineered".[/QUOTE]

Off course it was.
Same last time TRA bonds converted.
Everyday there are market participants taking advantage of arbitrage opportunities.
Always see it when options are about to convert.

[blackcap]

Beagle, if the FMA really was worried about these sorts of things going on they would be doing a lot more about it in my humble opinion.

[winner69]

Confirmation of guidance and cessation of 90 day VWAP trading period for the bond conversion should be the catalysts for the SP to stabilize. Might see a modest rebound in October.

Rebound still to happen .....no worries

[biker]

Byrnes not a car salesman either ......at least how he tried to sell a few at the end of the AGM

Not a good effort at all ...but we’ll forgive him, after all he’s an accountant

I wasn’t impressed by Paul Byrnes an the ASM. I thought he was defensive and dismissive.
In fact, the directors generally, I found quite unimpressive.
As for big brother Chairman Baker listening in with full vocal ability but not saying a word by way of introduction or explanation? Just plain creepy.
Ive done well out of TNR and it’s earlier iteration and have sold down at well above $3 but I’m now very tempted to sell the rest and move on.

[winner69]

I wasn’t impressed by Paul Byrnes an the ASM. I thought he was defensive and dismissive.
......

Dismissive a good description. Even Beagle didn’t even get a satisfactory answer to one of his well thought out questions

Fluffed his response to diversity big time.

Here’s a big NZ company CEO talking about diversity of thinking

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UwtjpsACvM0

[Snoopy]

The other thing I have been pondering that I am not entirely comfortable with is that they admitted at the annual meeting that it had been a tough Q1. Funny thing is they had this huge national roadshow of rah rah revving things up and nothing was mentioned then about a tough Q1 back then even though Q1 had already happened. Further, when I asked Todd Hunter at the first meeting of that roadshow how Q1 had gone he was very dismissive and shut me down very quickly and wouldn't give any insight whatsoever. I think they knew things hadn't gone that well in Q1 at that time, they just didn't want to tell.


Turners aren't in the habit of releasing quarterly results. This was a roadshow and, as such, answering a question about first quarter performance without simultaneously releasing that information to the NZX, would probably have breached NZX rules. I agree that Todd would most probably have known the first quarter was below budget, whatever that means. April to July is the 'winter quarter', traditionally not the best for motor vehicle sales. It would be interesting to know by what measure they were below budget, given there is not public record of first quarter results. As a shareholder I am much more interested in the full year result, rather than look for micro-trends that may have no meaning in a full year context.



Percy, regarding your post directly above, let me be clear, I think there are good grounds to believe the bond conversion price was somewhat "engineered".

I have to admit arbitraging between the value of head shares and bonds (being an owner of both) over the conversion year was a strategy I contemplated. In the end I didn't do anything. But as both a bond and shareholder, can you 'hand on heart' say that you didn't contemplate the same?

SNOOPY

[minimoke]

Here’s a big NZ company CEO talking about diversity of thinking

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UwtjpsACvM0Pull ya head in!. You posted that on another thread and we end up getting our thoughtful and thought provoking posts pulled by the STMOD. Just because you post it here does not change my view.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

There's nothing more diverse than an individual.

[Beagle]

I have to admit arbitraging between the value of head shares and bonds (being an owner of both) over the conversion year was a strategy I contemplated. In the end I didn't do anything. But as both a bond and shareholder, can you 'hand on heart' say that you didn't contemplate the same? Snoopy

I sold some shares at $ 3.16 knowing I'd get them back later and hoping it would be for less, and indeed it was quite a bit less. It wasn't in big volume and I doubt it affected the market.
Someone was working the market really hard in September and definitely affected the conversion price especially the big dump of 600K shares at $2.80. Whether they were arbitraging or manipulating the market, or both, I will let people decide for themselves. It happened last time the bonds converted too so I am not surprised. In fact every time the company goers to the market for any form of capital raise the SP comes under serious pressure.

[couta1]

There's nothing more diverse than an individual. Especially if that individual has multiple personality disorder.

[RupertBear]

Dismissive a good description. Even Beagle didn’t even get a satisfactory answer to one of his well thought out questions

Fluffed his response to diversity big time.

Here’s a big NZ company CEO talking about diversity of thinking

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UwtjpsACvM0

I lasted 1 minute and 40 seconds into that speach, that is 1 minute and 40 seconds of my life I can never get back :mellow:

[couta1]

Lots of lovely divvies coming up.Lol.

[Beagle]

TRA
08/10/2018 10:01
CORPACT
PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 1001 HRS Turners Automotive Group Limited

CORPACT: TRA: TRA declares higher quarterly dividend/re-affirms guidance

8 October 2018

Turners declares higher quarterly dividend and re-affirms guidance

The Board of Turners Automotive Group Limited (NZX: TRA) has declared the
first quarterly dividend for the 2019 financial year of 4 cents per share,
fully imputed, with a record date of 23 October 2018 and a payment date of 30
October 2018.

In addition, the Board advises that it expects to declare a further two
quarterly fully imputed dividends of 4 cents per share in January and April
2019, followed by a fully imputed final dividend of 5 cents per share in July
2019.

Chairman Grant Baker said: "The ongoing positive performance of Turners
Automotive Group allows for increasing distributions and we are targeting a
minimum FY19 full year dividend of 17 cents per share (up 10% on FY18). Based
on a share price of around $2.90, this represents an annualised yield of 5.9%
fully imputed."

This dividend payment profile is consistent with the Company's policy of
paying dividends totalling 50% to 60% of Net Profit after tax to shareholders
and enables the company to balance the twin objectives of providing
consistent and reliable dividend returns to shareholders and ensuring
sufficient profits are re-invested in the business to underpin future profit
and dividend growth".

At the recent Annual Meeting, the Board reaffirmed its previous profit
guidance for FY19 of a Net Profit before Tax of between $34 million and $36
million, the mid-point representing a 13% increase over FY18.

Turners CEO, Todd Hunter, said: "Turners has never been in better financial
shape, with a conservative equity ratio and an improved diversified funding
platform to support growth. The investments we are making into people,
property and our businesses will deliver further benefits in the second half
and we are seeing positive momentum in the company. Our confidence in our
strategy and long term prospects remains at high levels."

ENDS

About Turners
Turners Automotive Group Limited is an integrated financial services group,
primarily operating in the automotive sector www.turnersautogroup.co.nz

For further information, please contact;
Todd Hunter, Chief Executive Officer, Turners Automotive Group Limited Mob:
021 722 818
Media Liaison and Assistance: Jackie Ellis, Mob: 027 246 2505
End CA:00325001 For:TRA Type:CORPACT Time:2018-10-08 10:01:04

[minimoke]

Nice bit of cash rolling in - lets hope its not at the expense of a downwards spiralling SP

[Timesurfer]

Nice bit of cash rolling in - lets hope its not at the expense of a downwards spiralling SP

Surely not!

[blackcap]

So we go from 3,3,4.5,5 (15.5)

to 4,4,4,5 (17)

Yeah I can live with that.

[percy]

TRA
08/10/2018 10:01
CORPACT
PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 1001 HRS Turners Automotive Group Limited

CORPACT: TRA: TRA declares higher quarterly dividend/re-affirms guidance

8 October 2018

Turners declares higher quarterly dividend and re-affirms guidance

The Board of Turners Automotive Group Limited (NZX: TRA) has declared the
first quarterly dividend for the 2019 financial year of 4 cents per share,
fully imputed, with a record date of 23 October 2018 and a payment date of 30
October 2018.

In addition, the Board advises that it expects to declare a further two
quarterly fully imputed dividends of 4 cents per share in January and April
2019, followed by a fully imputed final dividend of 5 cents per share in July
2019.

Chairman Grant Baker said: "The ongoing positive performance of Turners
Automotive Group allows for increasing distributions and we are targeting a
minimum FY19 full year dividend of 17 cents per share (up 10% on FY18). Based
on a share price of around $2.90, this represents an annualised yield of 5.9%
fully imputed."

This dividend payment profile is consistent with the Company's policy of
paying dividends totalling 50% to 60% of Net Profit after tax to shareholders
and enables the company to balance the twin objectives of providing
consistent and reliable dividend returns to shareholders and ensuring
sufficient profits are re-invested in the business to underpin future profit
and dividend growth".

At the recent Annual Meeting, the Board reaffirmed its previous profit
guidance for FY19 of a Net Profit before Tax of between $34 million and $36
million, the mid-point representing a 13% increase over FY18.

Turners CEO, Todd Hunter, said: "Turners has never been in better financial
shape, with a conservative equity ratio and an improved diversified funding
platform to support growth. The investments we are making into people,
property and our businesses will deliver further benefits in the second half
and we are seeing positive momentum in the company. Our confidence in our
strategy and long term prospects remains at high levels."

ENDS

About Turners
Turners Automotive Group Limited is an integrated financial services group,
primarily operating in the automotive sector www.turnersautogroup.co.nz

For further information, please contact;
Todd Hunter, Chief Executive Officer, Turners Automotive Group Limited Mob:
021 722 818
Media Liaison and Assistance: Jackie Ellis, Mob: 027 246 2505
End CA:00325001 For:TRA Type:CORPACT Time:2018-10-08 10:01:04

Well done the Turners team.

[percy]

So we go from 3,3,4.5,5 (15.5)

to 4,4,4,5 (17)

Yeah I can live with that.

Me too....lol.

[winner69]

Seems $2.90 odd is a fair market price which Baker comfortable with.

[minimoke]

Surely not!A years worth of divis might make up for the loss I am currently carrying.

[couta1]

Me too....lol. I'm buying more.

[couta1]

A years worth of divis might make up for the loss I am currently carrying. HaHa better than my Air holding where it will take a year and a half worth of divvies at current price to break even, that's the market. PS-Now have a nice round number of shares in TRA and we'll and truly positioned at the sunny end of the tent along with Percy.

[RTM]

Seems $2.90 odd is a fair market price which Baker comfortable with.

“on a share price of around $2.90, this represents an annualised yield of 5.9%
fully imputed." “
That’s one interpretation Winner. Personally I think that share price will increase to make the dividend lower...say 330 or 340. As long as the business continues to do well.

[percy]

“on a share price of around $2.90, this represents an annualised yield of 5.9%
fully imputed." “
That’s one interpretation Winner. Personally I think that share price will increase to make the dividend lower...say 330 or 340. As long as the business continues to do well.

A lot of changes have been made strengthening Turners business model over the past few years.
These changes are now starting to show the board's strategy is on track.
May take a year or two yet to reach top gear,but it will.
In the meantime, the increasing dividend is the board's way of showing their confidence in the future.
I share their confidence.

[Snoopy]

Makes you wonder who was smashing shares out at $2.80 in big volume to get the VWAP conversion down doesn't it. Interestingly almost as soon as I mentioned something very strange was going on in this regard on this forum and that I was considering referring the matter to the NZX and FMA the seller smashing the price down stopped selling apart from one big 600K share crossing.
I think there are reasonable grounds to suspect something untoward was going on late in late September, late in the 90 day VWAP period.

Someone engineering a better conversion price for their massive bondholding ?...I think it's clear where that trail of breadcrumbs leads.


At annual report date 31-03-2018, Bartel Holdings held 6,745,624 shares.

The number of shares held after bond conversion was 9,552,642.

The number of new shares acquired as a result of bond conversion was 2,807,018

6,745,624 + 2,807,018 = 9,552,642

Where is the evidence of a great sell down to manipulate the bond conversion price?

SNOOPY

[Beagle]

Ruthless selling in late September culminating in about 600,000 shares crossed at $2.80. You think it might have been worth dumping about one million shares to manipulate the conversion price of the shares down to get 2.8 million cheap ones ?

Of course I don't know for certain who was ruthlessly and systematically driving the price down in Sept but its possibly worth noting that selling stopped a day or so after I suggested this might be referred to the NZX or FMA for inquiry. Trail of breadcrumbs is pretty clear in my opinion.

[blackcap]

Ruthless selling in late September culminating in about 600,000 shares crossed at $2.80. You think it might have been worth dumping about one million shares to manipulate the conversion price of the shares down to get 2.8 million cheap ones ?

Of course I don't know for certain who was ruthlessly and systematically driving the price down in Sept but its possibly worth noting that selling stopped a day or so after I suggested this might be referred to the NZX or FMA for inquiry. Trail of breadcrumbs is pretty clear in my opinion.

Interesting synopsis. For an illiquidish (I think that is a made up word because I am getting the red squiggly line) stock like TRA it would be easy to push the price down initially, and get momentum sellers on board so that you do not have to use too many of your own shares. Having about 89m shares on issue means you could theoretically use 890,000 before triggering the 1% threshold for holders over 5%. (although that would have meant good management of holding to have it in the .9% area, ie 5.9% 6.95% 7.93% etc)
Hmmm it could also have been a group acting in consort.....

[Beagle]

Interesting synopsis. For an illiquidish (I think that is a made up word because I am getting the red squiggly line) stock like TRA it would be easy to push the price down initially, and get momentum sellers on board so that you do not have to use too many of your own shares. Having about 89m shares on issue means you could theoretically use 890,000 before triggering the 1% threshold for holders over 5%. (although that would have meant good management of holding to have it in the .9% area, ie 5.9% 6.95% 7.93% etc)
Hmmm it could also have been a group acting in consort.....

No that's not possible, used car dealers never get their mates to give a hand selling someone a pup :sneaky2:

[Joshuatree]

Interesting synopsis. For an illiquidish (I think that is a made up word because I am getting the red squiggly line) stock like TRA it would be easy to push the price down initially, and get momentum sellers on board so that you do not have to use too many of your own shares. Having about 89m shares on issue means you could theoretically use 890,000 before triggering the 1% threshold for holders over 5%. (although that would have meant good management of holding to have it in the .9% area, ie 5.9% 6.95% 7.93% etc)
Hmmm it could also have been a group acting in consort.....

Ive often wondered if there is a boiler room pump dump group on here.

[Raz]

Ive often wondered if there is a boiler room pump dump group on here.

collusion..is within most markets and groups of people..quote of the day:)

[janner]

collusion..is within most markets and groups of people..quote of the day:)

In here it is " Different ". Aye ?.

[blackcap]

Ive often wondered if there is a boiler room pump dump group on here.

I doubt if this boiler room existed they would be operating on a public forum.

[Snoopy]

At annual report date 31-03-2018, Bartel Holdings held 6,745,624 shares.

The number of shares held after bond conversion was 9,552,642.

The number of new shares acquired as a result of bond conversion was 2,807,018

6,745,624 + 2,807,018 = 9,552,642

Where is the evidence of a great sell down to manipulate the bond conversion price?




Ruthless selling in late September culminating in about 600,000 shares crossed at $2.80. You think it might have been worth dumping about one million shares to manipulate the conversion price of the shares down to get 2.8 million cheap ones ?

Of course I don't know for certain who was ruthlessly and systematically driving the price down in Sept but its possibly worth noting that selling stopped a day or so after I suggested this might be referred to the NZX or FMA for inquiry. Trail of breadcrumbs is pretty clear in my opinion.


I will preface my comments here by saying there is no clear paper trail I can find of 'market manipulation', so it would be improper to suggest that the likes of Bartel Holdings are in any way involved with such a scheme.

When a substantial security holder makes a change in their holdings we are used to prompt notification by the NZX of any such changes. I imagine that in the normal course of business, such notices are sent out promptly by the substantial shareholder concerned.

The question I have is, what would happen if a substantial shareholder wanted to conceal their moves? What is the maximum time they are legally allowed to take to inform the NZX of such shareholding changes?
If 600,000 shares were dumped late in September, as Beagle alleges, could these same sellers buy back those shares over the subsequent two weeks (for example) and avoid making any shareholding change declaration?

SNOOPY

[winner69]

If wanting something to read here’s a good management treatise on how car dealers win in the future (in the US anyway)


Turners might be better bet over time than Colonial ......best ecosystem wins

https://www.bcg.com/publications/2018/staying-ahead-auto-finance-goes-digital.aspx?utm_medium=Email&utm_source=201810&utm_campaign=201810_NoVal_EALERT_NONE_GLOBAL&utm_usertoken=8d2745466b8c1944de755d1a47eb7ea91be9 4203&redir=true

[percy]

.
Turners are already "well positioned",with two trusted brands,Turners and BuyRight Cars,offering online cars, finance, together with insurance,autosure ,and service..

[winner69]

.
Turners are already "well positioned",with two trusted brands,Turners and BuyRight Cars,offering online cars, finance, together with insurance,autosure ,and service..

....yes indeed, a winning ecosystem

[GTM 3442]

How long before Turners look at picking up the franchise for one of the Chinese car brands?

5 years?

[Beagle]

Snoopy, many different ways to skin a cat but I've probably speculated more than enough already on the matter.

[Beagle]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12142731

[winner69]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12142731

Good news that is

[percy]

Good news that is

Certainly is coming after Turners "best ever retail volume month".
Confident for the coming summer too.
So am I.

[Beagle]

Interesting situation for some dealers though with SME business confidence hitting new 10 year lows according to the ANZ bank economist today.
Corporate Cars parallel imported 3 x new Audi A8's ($109K each) and 2 x new Audi A7's, ($115k each), (both brand new models just been released and the new model Audi A8 recently won World Luxury Car of the year for 2018) and the new model A7 not even released here yet. All 5 brand new parallel imported cars have remained unsold for many months now despite being priced at tens of thousands each less than through official distribution channels. Just imagine their floor plan finance costs :eek2: I was slightly tempted but have pulled my head in with the recent share market correction and I'll bet I'm not the only one. Interesting situation developing though and I agree that with the lower $Kiwi, as David Vinsen, (who is well known in the industry to be a good honest trader with a well earned reputation over several decades) suggested, prices must eventually go up and perhaps by as much as the 10-15% he suggested. I think with the currency where it is there is a bit of a tailwind to second hand car values at the lower end of the market. Higher end will struggle as people remain reluctant to commit in uncertain times, unless they have too.

Agreed, Good news about Turners value end of the market. Record month and I am pretty sure they commented at the annual meeting that August was very strong so two really strong months in a row. Is this pup finally starting to bark and if so when will the SP show some life ?

[Marilyn Munroe]

Corporate Cars parallel imported 3 x new Audi A8's ($109K each) and 2 x new Audi A7's, ($115k each), (both brand new models just been released and the new model Audi A8 recently won World Luxury Car of the year for 2018) and the new model A7 not even released here yet. All 5 brand new parallel imported cars have remained unsold for many months now despite being priced at tens of thousands each less than through official distribution channels.

I have an interesting tale about a luxury car from the German bug group of brands parallel imported. The dude took it to an authorised dealer in NZ to get serviced. The NZ dealer got bent and twisted about it, took the ID information from the car and grizzled to Wolfsberg who used it to trace the overseas dealer who sold the car.

The overseas dealer got the "ziss is not permitted" speech and was fined his dealer margin.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS. I agree the A8 is a damned nice car. My worry would be Vee Dub have a reputation for "don't care not going to fix it" attitudes towards warranty problems.

[sb9]

Btw, last day today to be in to get that juicy divvy. Goes ex-div tomorrow.

[minimoke]

Btw, last day today to be in to get that juicy divvy. Goes ex-div tomorrow.
Oh great, I can expect the SP to drop even further then.

[Beagle]

I have an interesting tale about a luxury car from the German bug group of brands parallel imported. The dude took it to an authorised dealer in NZ to get serviced. The NZ dealer got bent and twisted about it, took the ID information from the car and grizzled to Wolfsberg who used it to trace the overseas dealer who sold the car.

The overseas dealer got the "ziss is not permitted" speech and was fined his dealer margin.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

PS. I agree the A8 is a damned nice car. My worry would be Vee Dub have a reputation for "don't care not going to fix it" attitudes towards warranty problems.

Interesting post, thanks. I wish you hadn't said that, I might have to try one out now lol.
Makes you wonder what would happen to that U.K. dealer that sold out 5 brand new high value cars, especially seeing as they were models that had just come out, (they normally are barred from selling brand new ones offshore, rules around demo's are a bit more relaxed). Might have his distribution agreement pulled !
Not sure about the styling of the 8 and the size of the front grille https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/audi/auction-1630341555.htm?rsqid=65fd3a57fd564cd0ad7b58aac7a25 98c
New A7 a more sylish bit of kit to my eyes https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/audi/auction-1684222449.htm?rsqid=0a3539b048f24dcbb4cf1595cd330 f8b

Agreed minimoke, Turners SP has been a real "highlight" lately hasn't it along with the milk twins...on second thoughts I think I'll give trying out the new A8 a miss and just keep licking my wounds.

[couta1]

Trading at $2.85 with a 4c fully imputed divvy going Ex tomorrow.:confused:

[Timesurfer]

Its a sad day when TRA is the only sign of green in my portfolio. If it keeps this up I might be above water by Christmas.

[percy]

Its a sad day when TRA is the only sign of green in my portfolio. If it keeps this up I might be above water by Christmas.

You are "well positioned",enjoy the ride..

[Beagle]

Perfect weather over the long weekend. Hound was tempted to go look at some flash euro cars but then thought of the first year depreciation and ongoing expensive running costs and quickly retreated into his kennel and then thought a good walk in the Botanical gardens would be a LOT cheaper and better for me too. Lots of other dogs there to pat too.
Hope Tuners sold heaps this weekend. There's is a needs based business model not a wants based one.

[winner69]

Must be time for Baker to buy another big pile of shares at this price ...nearly 10% cheaper than when they were really cheap not that long ago.

[Joshuatree]

My buy finally got hit, i have enough now.

[winner69]

Another newsletter ....plenty of warm fuzzy stuff to enjoy reading over morning tea
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/325804/289229.pdf

By the way the site down by the Basin still devoid of cars

[minimoke]

By the way the site down by the Basin still devoid of cars
From the newsletter "Wellington City – second Turners branch in Wellington due to open in 2018." still two months to go.

[winner69]

From the newsletter "Wellington City – second Turners branch in Wellington due to open in 2018." still two months to go.

Been paying rent on an empty unproductive site for a while?

[percy]

Been paying rent on an empty unproductive site for a while?

Wellington City Council has not been as cooperative as other councils, such as Porirua and New Plymouth.
Looks as though the opening will be Tuesday.
Hate to think how Turners will get on with ChCh City Council, who do have a "reputation".

[winner69]

Wellington City Council has not been as cooperative as other councils, such as Porirua and New Plymouth.
Looks as though the opening will be Tuesday.
Hate to think how Turners will get on with ChCh City Council, who do have a "reputation".

I thought that might be the reason for the delay but strange as it’s been a car yard site for a while

Land sitting waiting for when they get around to putting a flyover or a tunnel to fix traffic chaos

[percy]

All set to open.
Looks good.
The signage on the container looks brilliant.

[winner69]

All set to open.
Looks good.
The signage on the container looks brilliant.

You up there for the Grand Opening?

[percy]

You up there for the Grand Opening?

No unfortunately.

Todd sent me photos one of the Wellington crew took.

[sb9]

Divvy paid into bank a/c, nice :)

[percy]

Divvy paid into bank a/c, nice :)

Tastie...!!!..lol.

[minimoke]

Divvy paid into bank a/c, nice :)
Oh yah! Its about 1/10th of the lost capital value.