TRA - Turners Automotive Group [previously TNR - Turners Limited]

[percy]

I think the result will have something for every man,moose and dog.!!..

How very true....

[winner69]

I am expecting a lot of stories tomorrow.
Something for everyone.
We live in interesting times,and tomorrow should be really interesting...lol.


Yep, lots of stories were told.......mostly bad stories

Even a few quite creative stories

[Beagle]

Yep, lots of stories were told.......mostly bad stories

Even a few quite creative stories

These days there's an app for almost anything. Probably one which automatically includes the latest buzz-words into otherwise dross statements to dress up tough old mutton to look like fresh spring lamb... Such an app is probably costing the PR consultancy firms millions lol

[winner69]

Did you notice the sponsored race car featured on the front slide of the presentation.....nice touch (and gives management the warm fuzzies and tells the world the sponsorship is worth every penny it’s costing them)

And doesn’t Todd Turner look cute these days ...got to be careful what images you use on some slides

[winner69]

These days there's an app for almost anything. Probably one which automatically includes the latest buzz-words into otherwise dross statements to dress up tough old mutton to look like fresh spring lamb... Such an app is probably costing the PR consultancy firms millions lol

In the old days cheat sheets were often used to make things sound good.

And you are right there are apps these days to help writers / managers to gloss up their presentations.

I’ve been involved in preparing these sort of presentations. I keep getting told it was important to choose the most appropriate words (in the trade they are called buzzwords) to espouse your strategy. Besides the general narrative it’s also a great skill to be able to put the narrative into bullet points without diluting the message. A big challenge is to be able to produce diagrams / psuedo flow charts to show how all the points fit together — using arrows is important so the reader can be guided through the slide.

A really good presentation would go through many iterations - change a few buzzwords, add a couple more images, make the arrows more rounded etc etc ....all the while making sure you kept in company guidelines re fonts and colours.

What I found was that has the presentation developed management became more and more obsessed with the bull**** they were coming up ...in fact they became more and more delusional.

Turners latest presentation a reasonable effort. Best part is the subliminal w use of the Carly, Drover, Flexidrive etc logos - gives you the message that they are on top of how the world is changing.

Mind you the media are just bad in their reporting

[forest]

Did you notice the sponsored race car featured on the front slide of the presentation.....nice touch (and gives management the warm fuzzies and tells the world the sponsorship is worth every penny it’s costing them)

And doesn’t Todd Turner look cute these days ...got to be careful what images you use on some slides

Nice wave, Tod ;)

[winner69]

Nice wave, Tod ;)

Shame Todd doesn’t check in on Sharetrader anymore .....he would have liked your compliment.

[winner69]

No doubt the powers to be did a lot of brainstorming and strategising using the good old white board

Wonder if this was part of their work

[couta1]

Whack a mole and no buyers.

[winner69]

Whack a mole and no buyers.

No buyers ...la sure sign most punters see Turners for what it really is ...anbroken business model without much in the way of a future

No more fools left to seduce with glossy pictures of racing cars and smiling chicks and cool looking strategy slides.

[winner69]

Whack a mole and no buyers.

Hope it doesn’t go back one (or more) dividend ..just as it was looking promising

Don’t forget Couts - in Budget lingo 80 cents of divies coming our way

[dubya]

There's a TRA presentation on Christchurch end of this month / early next. Date and time to be confirmed.

https://www.nzshareholders.co.nz/shareholders-branchEvents.cfm?contactID=6&branchID=5

I don't hold, but I do follow this thread. I just can't quite get the 'drift' of this company, so I'll probably go along. Heads up to anyone else in the Christchurch area that might be interested.

[peat]

time to bring back the share buyback

[Jay]

I see the Panmure Buy right site has now been rebranded - looks the part

[percy]

I see the Panmure Buy right site has now been rebranded - looks the part

If it looks the part,it should be the part.
From my experience in the book trade...When ever a publisher put a new cover on a popular book, sales increased dramatically.
The Turners branding should do the same.

[winner69]

You were right percy n that post you've deleted

While TRA 35% off it's highs SUM is about the same (but only 30%)


Both priced as if a no / low growth company


Always best to buy when this is the case (as opposed to buying when overprices) - you get the benefit of the growth and the rerating eh


SUM and TRA punters will do well in future from these low prices

[percy]

You were right percy n that post you've deleted

While TRA 35% off it's highs SUM is about the same (but only 30%)


Both priced as if a no / low growth company


Always best to buy when this is the case (as opposed to buying when overprices) - you get the benefit of the growth and the rerating eh


SUM and TRA punters will do well in future from these low prices
Your figures do not account for the extra dividends TRA shareholders received.I noted SUM's sp was down 23% in the past year while TRA's was down 21.2%.These figures did not account for dividends.And as I had trouble working them out ,as I could not remember the amount SUM's dividend was imputed,I deleted my post..TRA's offcourse is fully imputed..
Bit easier for TRA shareholders with TRA paying about three times SUM's yield.
As per the deleted post I like both companies,and find it somewhat confusing, that most posters on this thread rubbish TRA,while on the SUM thread they think the opposite.
,

[Beagle]

You were right percy n that post you've deleted

While TRA 35% off it's highs SUM is about the same (but only 30%)


Both priced as if a no / low growth company


Always best to buy when this is the case (as opposed to buying when overprices) - you get the benefit of the growth and the rerating eh


SUM and TRA punters will do well in future from these low prices

A two year view of SUM v TRA 10597

[peat]

I note a little bit of interest drummed itself up on the buy side for a while today. as commented on by couta it was very vacant there initially and does seem to have thinned out at close.
price closed up 2 but only buyers sitting at -8. :mellow:

[percy]

I note a little bit of interest drummed itself up on the buy side for a while today. as commented on by couta it was very vacant there initially and does seem to have thinned out at close.
price closed up 2 but only buyers sitting at -8. :mellow:

Looks to me as though a buyer sits on the side lines ,and waits for sellers to show their hand,before he decides whether to buy or not.
If you watch PAZ on www.usx.co.nz the seller takes the same, but opposite view.[Figure that out if you can]
Both seem to have a good buy/sell model."It really works".

[winner69]

A two year view of SUM v TRA 10597

TRA really outperforming SUM ....maybe hope for sum yet

[percy]

Great knowing we are all right.!!
All time high.
one year.
two year.
Perhaps one day we will all be on the same page [although I very much doubt it].
Well the next two to three years should be fun.
I will all the time be enjoying my great increasing TRA fully imputed paid quarterly divies.Next one 18th July.
About three times SUM yield.

[Baa_Baa]

TRA really outperforming SUM ....maybe hope for sum yet

Those relative performance charts are easy to cherry pick eh? Regardless, both have smashed a heap of investors capital for holders from their highs. As Percy says though, TRA still have a better payout, so assuming holders live long enough they'll get their capital back in dividends, likewise SUM in time. Both should return to a sustained SP uptrend at some stage though, sometimes best to just suck up the earnings and put the charts and daily commentaries away where they belong.

[Baa_Baa]

I can't understand why a long term value investor even bothers looking at the daily share price. Better to have a few really exciting companies if one likes taking a daily view, it tends to deflect attention from the long holds daily movements.

[percy]

I can't understand why a long term value investor even bothers looking at the daily share price. Better to have a few really exciting companies if one likes taking a daily view, it tends to deflect attention from the long holds daily movements.

I seem to have all my shares on watch lists.
The dead boring to the ultra exciting,from the big growth companies to the big yields,so I can't watch some without watching the others..

[winner69]

Nicholas Taleb did a piece in Fooled by Randomness about watching your portfolio on a regular basis - the successful portfolio he used as an example he said this - A minute-by-minute examination of his performance means that each day (assuming eight hours per day) he will have 241 pleasurable minutes against 239 unpleasurable ones. These amount to 60,688 and 60,271, respectively, per year

Seems the more you look the more pain you suffer (assuming a down tick causes more pain than the pleasure of an up tick)

I also liked this bit of advice though I never heed it - Reading daily news takes a lot of effort for little reward. Therefore we should stop doing it. If the news is essential, it will travel through the grapevine to reach you somehow.

[Baa_Baa]

I seem to have all my shares on watch lists.
The dead boring to the ultra exciting,from the big growth companies to the big yields,so I can't watch some without watching the others..

I don't have any long holds on a 'watchlist' (like ASB Securities or MyNZX etc, for example), only things on watchlists are things I want to watch in case I might buy them. The stuff I actually own is in my portfolios on Sharesight.

Anyway, it would be hard to advocate a share, or bag it, if one didn't look at it daily, preferably many many times a day. Lol.

[percy]

I don't have any long holds on a 'watchlist' (like ASB Securities or MyNZX etc, for example), only things on watchlists are things I want to watch in case I might buy them. The stuff I actually own is in my portfolios on Sharesight.

Anyway, it would be hard to advocate a share, or bag it, if one didn't look at it daily, preferably many many times a day. Lol.

My watch lists work just fine for me.Flags show any announcements,so I don't miss a thing.!
www.stocknessmonster.com

[winner69]

For what’s it worth only 1 broker seems to cover TRA these day — assume FNZC as they seem closely involved in ‘advising’ Turners — but maybe not as Chinese walls exist.

Whoever their target is $2.59 .....implying current share price value of $2.30/$2.35

No profit growth on the horizon....but HUGE DIVIDENDS FORECAST

https://www.marketscreener.com/TURNERS-AUTOMOTIVE-GROUP-31620944/consensus/

[percy]

For what’s it worth only 1 broker seems to cover TRA these day — assume FNZC as they seem closely involved in ‘advising’ Turners — but maybe not as Chinese walls exist.

Whoever their target is $2.59 .....implying current share price value of $2.30/$2.35

No profit growth on the horizon....but HUGE DIVIDENDS FORECAST

https://www.marketscreener.com/TURNERS-AUTOMOTIVE-GROUP-31620944/consensus/

Both Craigs and FNZC cover Turners.
As you point out FNZC can't give target price etc as they are advising TRA in regards to Oxford Finance.
Interesting comments .One from each broker.
"with growth in the contributions from Auto retail and Finance the main drivers."
"solid underlying earnings growth is expected over the next two years".
Forecast dividends: Refer my post #5242 on this thread.

[winner69]

Both Craigs and FNZC cover Turners.
As you point out FNZC can't give target price etc as they are advising TRA in regards to Oxford Finance.
Some comments from both;
"with growth in the contributions from Auto retail and Finance the main drivers."
"solid underlying earnings growth is expected over the next two years".

Brokers always say that ....but that solid growth not reflected in the ‘forecasts’

[percy]

Brokers always say that ....but that solid growth not reflected in the ‘forecasts’

Perhaps if you read their research you would get a "fuller picture".

[winner69]

Just as well Turners don’t sell new cars .....and hopefully punters who need a ‘new’ car are buying decent used cars

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/1c6c96d9/new-car-registrations-drop-14-in-may-as-cooling-market-continues.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20car%20registrations%20drop%2014 %20in%20May%20as%20cooling%20market%20continues&utm_content=New%20car%20registrations%20drop%2014% 20in%20May%20as%20cooling%20market%20continues+CID _0e21d0b4744a03450cc82d22185ff8ba&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle1c6c96d9new-car-registrations-drop-14-in-may-as-cooling-market-continueshtml

[Beagle]

Just as well Turners don’t sell new cars .....and hopefully punters who need a ‘new’ car are buying decent used cars

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/1c6c96d9/new-car-registrations-drop-14-in-may-as-cooling-market-continues.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20car%20registrations%20drop%2014 %20in%20May%20as%20cooling%20market%20continues&utm_content=New%20car%20registrations%20drop%2014% 20in%20May%20as%20cooling%20market%20continues+CID _0e21d0b4744a03450cc82d22185ff8ba&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle1c6c96d9new-car-registrations-drop-14-in-may-as-cooling-market-continueshtml

I think that's a VERY stark illustration of how the economy is cooling and many consumers are deferring expensive replacement decisions of many different types.
We have the now, well known problem of used campervans not selling and as someone who is taking more than a passing interest in boats at present I can see that very very few boats of any decent value have been selling on Trade Me. Fortunately TRA's one saving grace is most of their customers are not making a discretionary purchase and their previous clapped out ride needs to be replaced with another heavily used one.

[winner69]

I hope that Turners raving on how ‘big data’ is going to transform their business is not just a case of jumping on the band wagon and saying the right things.

For such a strategy to be successful a cultural change is required within the company. Even with the data and analytics they already have they have seemed pretty slow in identifying problems / issues ...but I suppose you’ve got to start somewhere.

[Beagle]

"Cartopia" or some similar phrase a few years ago was supposed to be the way to incredible online growth in sales using big data and overseas based analytics'....I think they ran into a tiny wee problem called Trade Me. They've been playing with that "Buzzwords app", its as simple as that.

Bottom line is 90%+ of vehicles are listed on Trade Me and more and more people are cutting dealers margins out of the loop using Trade Me who now have a tie-up with Motor Trade Finance for online finance.

[Joshuatree]

Turners have got trademe covered with plenty of its cars for sale on there.

[Beagle]

One way of looking at it, another is Trade Me have Turners covered with more than 90% of the total vehicle market place on its site.
Everyone I know that's looking for a vehicle starts by looking on Trade Me and many dealers use indicative asking prices on there as a point of reference because of the depth of the market. Turners will always be a minnow compared to the online market place that is Trade Me and that's part of their problem going forward in my opinion, not that they will ever admit to it in one of their presentations...

[trader_jackson]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335717

Director throwing $40k at more TRA shares.
Must be undervalued big time
We know it should be worth north of $3
At least that's what the directors say

[percy]

Yes Turners have used Trade Me, and other chanels, to become the biggest used vehicle and machinery retailer in NZ.
I except they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335717

Director throwing $40k at more TRA shares.
Must be undervalued big time
We know it should be worth north of $3
At least that's what the directors say


...I see he has $300,000 in bonds as well .......probably thinks too many shares is a bit risky.

[percy]

...I see he has $300,000 in bonds as well .......probably thinks too many shares is a bit risky.

May believe in diversity.?.lol.

[blackcap]

Paul Byrnes building a deck for summer?

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335919

[minimoke]

Paul Byrnes building a deck for summer?

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335919Its always a worry when directors / senior executives see the best way of financing a deck is selling shares. Jeez - he could probably extend his mortgage for 4%. (and wouldn't his healthy TRA divvies pay that?). Which tells us his expected limitation of growth in the TRA SP

[peat]

Paul Byrnes building a deck for summer?

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/335919

taking the opportunity to sell before the buy back kicks in given how undervalued they are. Like any sensible director would.

Of course it is only a small amount relative to the holding, but if the director surely believed they were the absolute bargain, which we can assume is the reason for voting for a company buy back, then he would finance the continued ownership, wouldn't he?

[peat]

Which tells us his expected limitation of growth in the TRA SP

snap crackle pop.

[Brain]

Directors and management selling shares is not necessarily a bad sign. Directors and management buying shares is more likely to be a good indication.

As a case in point Scott Bradley sold 6,000,000 plexure shares for 20 c each about a year ago.
I bet he regrets that decision

[percy]

Its always a worry when directors / senior executives see the best way of financing a deck is selling shares. Jeez - he could probably extend his mortgage for 4%. (and wouldn't his healthy TRA divvies pay that?). Which tells us his expected limitation of growth in the TRA SP

Maybe buying a few PAZ.?
Not really material or significant, considering the number he holds.
The buy back means he [and us] have increased our % holding,and in Paul Byrnes case, by more than he has sold..

ps.TK {team knockers] will have a field day.
HARD HAT ON.
More to add to my ignore list??...LOL.

[Timesurfer]

As a case in point Scott Bradley sold 6,000,000 plexure shares for 20 c each about a year ago.
I bet he regrets that decision
I suspect that depends on what he did with the money.

[winner69]

Maybe buying a few PAZ.?
Not really material or significant, considering the number he holds.
The buy back means he [and us] have increased our % holding,and in Paul Byrnes case, by more than he has sold..

ps.TK {team knockers] will have a field day.
HARD HAT ON.
More to add to my ignore list??...LOL.

Don’t ignore everybody percy ....otherwise in your eyes you’ll be the only one on the thread ...unless Todd posts something again.

[Ggcc]

Don’t ignore everybody percy ....otherwise in your eyes you’ll be the only one on the thread ...unless Todd posts something again.
Remember he who laughs last laughs longest.

[winner69]

I tried to block winner69 ......not allowed to block yourself :):eek2:;):p

[percy]

Don’t ignore everybody percy ....otherwise in your eyes you’ll be the only one on the thread ...unless Todd posts something again.

Just the usual suspects.
I think they have gone over to the darkside.
Best to leave them to play with themselves.
Could say they deserve each other.....lol.

[percy]

I tried to block winner69 ......not allowed to block yourself :):eek2:;):p

Pity.............................................. lol.

[RupertBear]

I tried to block winner69 ......not allowed to block yourself :):eek2:;):p

Nice to have a bit of humour back on this post, thanks Winner :D

[Snow Leopard]

Mentality, I have you all on ignore.

Share price forming some nasty pattern called a downtrend :(. But remember that all good downtrends come to an uptrend
However the dividend yield is already in an uptrend :).

I am fairly confident I predicted all this in a prior post (this one (https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?4371-TRA-Turners-Automotive-Group-previously-TNR-Turners-Limited&p=753176&viewfull=1#post753176)) but feel free to ignore me too.

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/snow-leopard-sleeping-jack-nevitt.jpg

[percy]

I think the importance of dividends is too often overlooked by people concentating on the share price of companies.
For example if you had invested US $40 into a single share of Coca Cola in 1919 during the IPO ,your investment would be worth US $394,350 today,and if you had reinvested dividends,your investment would be worth US $9.8 million.

[winner69]

I think the importance of dividends is too often overlooked by people concentating on the share price of companies.
For example if you had invested US $40 into a single share of Coca Cola in 1919 during the IPO ,your investment would be worth US $394,350 today,and if you had reinvested dividends,your investment would be worth US $9.8 million.

Dividends sure can make a difference - enhance your wealth and mitigate your losses.

For example if you had bought 1,000 Turners shares two years ago they would have cost you $3,720. Today they are worth $2,360

If you had reinvested the dividends you’d have 1,113 shares now worth $2,626

So less worse off by reinvesting the dividends

Percy, do you reinvest your Turners divies buy buying more Turners shares





think my numbers are right ...maybe not as using yahoo data and a calculator on the phone

[percy]

Dividends sure can make a difference - enhance your wealth and mitigate your losses.

For example if you had bought 1,000 Turners shares two years ago they would have cost you $3,720. Today they are worth $2,360

If you had reinvested the dividends you’d have 1,113 shares now worth $2,626

So less worse off by reinvesting the dividends

Percy, do you reinvest your Turners divies buy buying more Turners shares





think my numbers are right ...maybe not as using yahoo data and a calculator on the phone

I confess I used to use them to buy more PAZ as well.In fact my PAZ shares have increased in value, to more than my TRA shareholding,ie 10 cps on millions of shares.
Not sure what I will do with the 18th July TRA divie.
However, I am considering buying a few more TRA, just to take my holding up to an even amount, before they go ex divie on 8th July.
Be 7,944 , should I go ahead.

ps.Had DRP with EBO for over 25 years.

[BlackPeter]

I think the importance of dividends is too often overlooked by people concentating on the share price of companies.
For example if you had invested US $40 into a single share of Coca Cola in 1919 during the IPO ,your investment would be worth US $394,350 today,and if you had reinvested dividends,your investment would be worth US $9.8 million.

You are absolutely right.

Say somebody purchased some TRA shares in May 2017 for $ 3.97, than he would have lost (given today's SP of $ $2.36) $1.61 per share - or 40.5% of his/ her capital. Given that we talk a 2 year timeframe, this would be a loss of 18.5% per year.

However - given that Turners paid during this time a juicy dividend (a total of 32 cents per share) any proud TRA shareholder would have lost only $1.29 per share (or 32.5 % over two years) which would have come down to a much less hurting loss of only 15% per year.

The dividends make a real difference indeed!

I don't dare to extrapolate this calculation to 2117 ... but I hope that there might be better ways to make money - or at least more fun ways to lose it ;);

PS: I know - the chosen 2 year time frame is not flattering for TRA, but it is hard to find time windows (ending today) which are. The only sort of ok-ish proposition would have been for somebody buying 3 months ago at this local dip around $2.20 and riding the dead cat bounce over the last 3 months, but I suppose the traders left again.

PPS: percy, I wish you well, but it sort of feels you are flogging with TRA a dead horse ... time to review, reflect and rebalance? Yes, it used to be a good story, but they changed the story, and I am not sure the numbers ever added up ....


Edit: just noticed winner did beat me to the response (not good to start a post, than do something else, return and not check whether somebody else responded already). Anyway - I will leave it, maybe it adds a bit of colour ;);

[percy]

[QUOTE=BlackPeter;762685].

PPS: percy, I wish you well, but it sort of feels you are flogging with TRA a dead horse ... time to review, reflect and rebalance? Yes, it used to be a good story, but they changed the story, and I am not sure the numbers ever added up ....


Funny enough I received my wife's and my own portolio updates last night from Craigs.
Not including dividends, our combined portfolios are up 21% since 26th February this year.
And that increase was a considerable amount of money.
Two very big milestones were reached.[both I doubted we would ever achieve].
The bench mark I use is aaml.co.nz.Certainly have outperformed them over the years.
Therefore our portfolios remain "well positioned" to deliver good growth, and excellent dividends.
I am retaining TRA ,and infact am considering adding a few more before they go ex divie.

[minimoke]

[QUOTE=BlackPeter;762685].


Funny enough I received my wife's and my own portolio updates last night from Craigs.
Not including dividends, our combined portfolios are up 21% since 26th February this year.
And that increase was a considerable amount of money.
And it would have been even more if TRA wasnt in your portfolio.

TRA remains in mine because stop loss hasn't been reached. I'm currently down 5.6%. But this loss in capital is partially made up from the dividends which reduces my net loss to around 2.5%

A loss at this level causes me no concern. Most of my portfolio sits in minor loss territory but it balanced out by some stand out performers. You cant win them all (or at least I cant) so I am happy enough to carry the risk for the mean time. Time in the market , rather than timing the market seems to work well enough for me.

This is second time around for me and they continue to disappoint. Stop loss has consequently been reset for 10%

[Balance]

[QUOTE=percy;762691]And it would have been even more if TRA wasnt in your portfolio.

TRA remains in mine because stop loss hasn't been reached. I'm currently down 5.6%. But this loss in capital is partially made up from the dividends which reduces my net loss to around 2.5%

A loss at this level causes me no concern. Most of my portfolio sits in minor loss territory but it balanced out by some stand out performers. You cant win them all (or at least I cant) so I am happy enough to carry the risk for the mean time. Time in the market , rather than timing the market seems to work well enough for me.

This is second time around for me and they continue to disappoint. Stop loss has consequently been reset for 10%

Kept TRA & MOA on watchlist after making very good money investing in 42 Below & Trilogy.

Not tempted to invest in TRA (or Moa) as I believe the Baker Boys Modus Operandi of brand building (42 Below) and scale building (Trilogy) before flicking to an acquirer has run its course:

Moa is surviving on capital raising year after year. While the brewery is building up volume and market presence, the craft beer market is getting ever more crowded with little scope that one of the big boys will acquire Moa.

Recent developments with TRA (unsuccessful sale of business overseas and director selling shares, albeit small but still very telling given the extremely bullish comments of undervaluation & share buyback) suggest that TRA has a lot of work ahead to become a sustainable business entity.

Agree with W69 that we had a lucky escape with Trilogy! Not going to try my luck again - need it for a couple of stragglers in my portfolio.

[percy]

[QUOTE=minimoke;762693]

Kept TRA & MOA on watchlist after making very good money investing in 42 Below & Trilogy.

Not tempted to invest in TRA (or Moa) as I believe the Baker Boys Modus Operandi of brand building (42 Below) and scale building (Trilogy) before flicking to an acquirer has run its course:

Moa is surviving on capital raising year after year. While the brewery is building up volume and market presence, the craft beer market is getting ever more crowded with little scope that one of the big boys will acquire Moa.

Recent developments with TRA (unsuccessful sale of business overseas and director selling shares, albeit small but still very telling given the extremely bullish comments of undervaluation & share buyback) suggest that TRA has a lot of work ahead to become a sustainable business entity.

Agree with W69 that we had a lucky escape with Trilogy! Not going to try my luck again - need it for a couple of stragglers in my portfolio.

As you know The Business Bakery shared out their holdings in MOA and TRA.
MOA is Ross's project while TRA is Baker's.
I do not follow MOA so can not comment.
TRA I do follow, and my research tells me they will turn out an excellent investment.I have always backed myself .
Their divies help to make up our dividend income, which is helped by HGH,GNE,MEL,PGW,SPK,and now SKL. .

[SCOTTY]

Just the usual suspects.
I think they have gone over to the darkside.
Best to leave them to play with themselves.
Could say they deserve each other.....lol.
Was that “play with themselves or play by themselves?”

[percy]

Was that “play with themselves or play by themselves?”

Oh dear,did I write that.!
Will have to think about that.?...lol.

[Ggcc]

Someone seems to be buying loads today and selling loads today

[Balance]

Someone seems to be buying loads today and selling loads today

Always a good sign for a breakout - be it on the upside or downside.

[sb9]

Someone seems to be buying loads today and selling loads today

Couple of large parcels (183k and 443k lots) were crossed at 2.36. Not sure what to read into though...

[percy]

Maybe Paul Byrnes is selling enough to buy a unit at OCA's "The Sands,"..?

[percy]

I note Carsales.com in Australia are selling their 50.1% in Stratton Finance.

[winner69]

I note Carsales.com in Australia are selling their 50.1% in Stratton Finance.

Carsales recentky wrote the value of that finance interest down by ~A$50m ...maybe Turners night need to ‘adjust’ the value of their finance arm.

Carsales.com.au don’t sell cars - they’re a media/ advertising company aren’t they?

[percy]

Carsales recentky wrote the value of that finance interest down by ~A$50m ...maybe Turners night need to ‘adjust’ the value of their finance arm.

Carsales.com.au don’t sell cars - they’re a media/ advertising company aren’t they?

The sale price of Oxford Finance will be of great interest to all Turners shareholders,to see whether it is sold at a discount or a premium .

[Balance]

[QUOTE=Balance;762699]

MOA is Ross's project while TRA is Baker's.
I do not follow MOA so can not comment.
TRA I do follow, and my research tells me they will turn out an excellent investment.I have always backed myself .



Good on you, Percy but you are not backing yourself really - you are backing Baker.

I read somewhere that he does not even bother to attend and chair the AGM?

[winner69]

[QUOTE=percy;762704]

Good on you, Percy but you are not backing yourself really - you are backing Baker.

I read somewhere that he does not even bother to attend and chair the AGM?

That’s right

He gives the impression that Turners is just too hard .....hasn’t found a buyer ....and just wants out as quickly as he can

[percy]

[QUOTE=percy;762704]

Good on you, Percy but you are not backing yourself really - you are backing Baker.

I read somewhere that he does not even bother to attend and chair the AGM?

Been dug up a long time ago.ie you are flogging a dead horse.
As The Chairman of NZ's largest second hand car retailer he is a "motorhead" who had arranged to attend a Ferrari do overseas.
The board altered the date of the agm,ie held it a different week than normal.
As a shareholder I am really happy having a "petrol head" as chairman,and only wish I was invited to a Ferrari do.Would not miss it for all the tea in China.!
Perhaps you should avail yourself of the opportunity to make a worthwhile current contribution to this thread,by going out to Archers Road on the North Shore, and reporting on the progress being made of Turners new site.From early photos I have seen it looks impressive.

[winner69]

[QUOTE=Balance;762845]

Been dug up a long time ago.ie you are flogging a dead horse.
As The Chairman of NZ's largest second hand car retailer he is a "motorhead" who had arranged to attend a Ferrari do overseas.
The board altered the date of the agm,ie held it a different week than normal.
As a shareholder I am really happy having a "petrol head" as chairman,and only wish I was invited to a Ferrari do.Would not miss it for all the tea in China.!
Perhaps you should avail yourself of the opportunity to make a worthwhile current contribution to this thread,by going out to Archers Road on the North Shore, and reporting on the progress being made of Turners new site.From early photos I have seen it looks impressive.

Not intending to go to Auckland in foreseeable future

Might pop in to Basin Reserve later

[percy]

[QUOTE=percy;762867]

Not intending to go to Auckland in foreseeable future

Might pop in to Basin Reserve later
Was addressed to Balance,whom I thought lives in Auckland.
Update from Basin Reserve would be welcome too if you can.

[Balance]

[QUOTE=winner69;762896]
Was addressed to Balance,whom I thought lives in Auckland.
Update from Basin Reserve would be welcome too if you can.

Netflix does not need flash premises?

[percy]

[QUOTE=percy;762901]

Netflix does not need flash premises?

Fantastic news.!
Yet when Turners rebrand,relocate or open a new branch they increase sales.
That is why it is important to view their new sites.

[dreamcatcher]

How convenient that the AGM dates were altered so Baker couldn't attend, was there not a huge directors fee increase to boot. After watching podcast of that meeting left me with the view of watching a gloomy funeral. My impressions that this company was un-investable still stands.

[percy]

Drive past Turners development site in Archers Road,and become enthused.

[Balance]

How convenient that the AGM dates were altered so Baker couldn't attend, was there not a huge directors fee increase to boot. After watching podcast of that meeting left me with the view of watching a gloomy funeral. My impressions that this company was un-investable still stands.


Almost everything is investable at a price unless it is a complete basket case, like Snakk, Wynyard or Cannasouth.

With the likes of Milford getting the hell out of TRA, the sp has got to have a $1 in front of it before it is investable imo.

One thing for sure - never fall in love with a stock as that’s the surest way of losing objectivity and perspective. That’s when one is prone to make all kinds of excuses for the directors, management and the company, for inexcusable things.

A Ferrari do being more important than chairing an AGM when the sp was in freefall - Now that is not being very objective in my book!:t_down:

[RTM]

Can you put threads on ignore ? Or just contributors ? ��

[percy]

Can you put threads on ignore ? Or just contributors ? ��

Only contributors.
However on the darkside I just ignore the thread.
About to do the same here.!!!.
We are on page 356 of this thread.For fun go back 100 pages to page 256.
All the same old tired arguements.
Just different posters posting them.

[Balance]

Only contributors.
However on the darkside I just ignore the thread.
About to do the same here.!!!.
We are on page 356 of this thread.For fun go back 100 pages to page 256.
All the same old tired arguements.
Just different posters posting them.

And the sp tells the underlying story for the so-called 'old tired arguments' - at least for this Mercedes driver anyway. :p

[Baa_Baa]

Update from Basin Reserve would be welcome too if you can.

The Basin site is awful, a tiny, partly gravel forecourt, shipping containers for offices, and of course the cars look even older and crappier because of all the high roller flash Harry’s car yards on both sides of Kent and Cambridge Tce’s. I think the whole thing looks cheap and nasty, doing the brand a disservice IMO.

[percy]

The Basin site is awful, a tiny, partly gravel forecourt, shipping containers for offices, and of course the cars look even older and crappier because of all the high roller flash Harry’s car yards on both sides of Kent and Cambridge Tce’s. I think the whole thing looks cheap and nasty, doing the brand a disservice IMO.

Thanks for your comments.
Turners state it is performing above budget.

[minimoke]

The Basin site is awful, a tiny, partly gravel forecourt, shipping containers for offices, and of course the cars look even older and crappier because of all the high roller flash Harry’s car yards on both sides of Kent and Cambridge Tce’s. I think the whole thing looks cheap and nasty, doing the brand a disservice IMO.
Is thsi the site here?
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x6d38afb5727aff31%3A0xe446981f7a9bf993!2m22 !2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2! 1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e 115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp% 2FAF1QipNG7oPDDIaX3KOJBi8SrWoGKug84ekCc5GAKJLi%3Dw 176-h176-k-no!5sturners%20basin%20reserve%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2s5MccT5kFzp4OSVsGjkjXiw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjU4dj66efiAhUQeysKHRt5CQcQoiowCnoECAsQB g

[percy]

And the sp tells the underlying story for the so-called 'old tired arguments' - at least for this Mercedes driver anyway. :p

Buy it from Netflix.?

[RTM]

The Basin site is awful, a tiny, partly gravel forecourt, shipping containers for offices, and of course the cars look even older and crappier because of all the high roller flash Harry’s car yards on both sides of Kent and Cambridge Tce’s. I think the whole thing looks cheap and nasty, doing the brand a disservice IMO.

Hope you got the thread mentally on ignore in time Percy.
Off to chop down a conifer to fill in the afternoon.

[Baa_Baa]

However on the darkside I just ignore the thread.
About to do the same here.!!!.
👍


All the same old tired arguements.
Just different posters posting them.
And the same old tired rebuttals from a single monotonous promoter, just the SP that is almost halved.

[Balance]

Thanks for your comments.
Turners state it is performing above budget.

And they also stated the sp is undervalued.

[dreamcatcher]

Oh Gosh! if I block you Percy I may only see about 30% of posts and mostly negative, horrible thought as we need balance ..............

[Balance]

The Basin site is awful, a tiny, partly gravel forecourt, shipping containers for offices, and of course the cars look even older and crappier because of all the high roller flash Harry’s car yards on both sides of Kent and Cambridge Tce’s. I think the whole thing looks cheap and nasty, doing the brand a disservice IMO.

Worse house in the best street strategy?

[Baa_Baa]

Is thsi the site here?
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x6d38afb5727aff31%3A0xe446981f7a9bf993!2m22 !2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2! 1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e 115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp% 2FAF1QipNG7oPDDIaX3KOJBi8SrWoGKug84ekCc5GAKJLi%3Dw 176-h176-k-no!5sturners%20basin%20reserve%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2s5MccT5kFzp4OSVsGjkjXiw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjU4dj66efiAhUQeysKHRt5CQcQoiowCnoECAsQB g
Yes that’s it, have a googly walk down the road, for comparison

[Baa_Baa]

Worse house in the best street strategy?
They’re not selling houses though are they. Do they own or lease the land?

[minimoke]

Yes that’s it, have a googly walk down the road, for comparison
Definitely the poor relative. Presumably price point on vehicles matches

[winner69]

They’re not selling houses though are they. Do they own or lease the land?

Leased - short term probably and might have got it at cheap rates

It’s land taken by the NZTA for the flyover or whatever they end of doing around the Basin

Hence the shipping containers and gravel ...no future there

[winner69]

No wonder Turners need to do something to fix their business

ROIC for F19 slumped below 6% which is way below their cost of capital - another year of decline.

Probably that’s why the market values Turners at about its Book Value

[percy]

��


And the same old tired rebuttals from a single monotonous promoter, just the SP that is almost halved.

Agreed.
If people would read the thread, they would save me making the same rebuttals.
Tiresome for me, and others who have followed the thread..

[Balance]

Agreed.
If people would read the thread, they would save me making the same rebuttals.
Tiresome for me, and others who have followed the thread..

SP soon to halve again then, you reckon since it's the same ole thingi?

[percy]

SP soon to halve again then, you reckon since it's the same ole thingi?
Perhaps you should look at renting a holding, so you can short them.?,,lol.
.

[winner69]

Turners done a 'strategic review'

Not many 'strategic reviews' seem to end well, esp transformational ones


Hope Turners are an exception

[blackcap]

Did Paul Byrnes lose a bet to Todd Hunter? Trying to figure this one out..

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/336177/301827.pdf

[alex f]

Worse house in the best street strategy?

I said this when it opened. The have many battered ex lease cars, but make absolutely no attempt to tidy them up, stonechips scratches etc. Walk down the road and signature classs cars for a little bit more. And Turners imports are mainy old European cars.....asking for trouble with those

[BlackPeter]

I said this when it opened. The have many battered ex lease cars, but make absolutely no attempt to tidy them up, stonechips scratches etc. Walk down the road and signature classs cars for a little bit more. And Turners imports are mainy old European cars.....asking for trouble with those

Yep, interesting, even Todd told us in last years roadshow that elder European cars are much more expensive to repair and more likely to break down (bad business for their insurance) than the Japs. You wonder why they sell so many of the Europeans. Hopefully (for shareholders) without Motorsure ... or at least with a high risk premium ...

[peat]

Yep, interesting, even Todd told us in last years roadshow that elder European cars are much more expensive to repair and more likely to break down (bad business for their insurance) than the Japs. You wonder why they sell so many of the Europeans. Hopefully (for shareholders) without Motorsure ... or at least with a high risk premium ...

Poor people want the badges too! So at least
they don't look poor on the motorway!

[winner69]

Did Paul Byrnes lose a bet to Todd Hunter? Trying to figure this one out..

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/336177/301827.pdf

Byrnes to Hunter - I’ve had a guts full of this and don’t like the way we’re going. I’m going to dump more shares on the market

Hunter - NO NO mate - that’ll make the share price collapse. Cant do that

Byrnes — I’m doing it anyway

Hunter - i’ll do the decent thing for the company and take them off your hands. Just transfer them to me.

[winner69]

I see the name Graham Leaming on that disclosure of Todd Turner

Is that the same Graham Leaming that’s the CFO of Skellerup?

[blackcap]

I see the name Graham Learning on that disclosure of Todd Turner

Is that the same Graham Learning that’s the CFO of Skellerup?

3 names, 2 presumably husband and wife, a third independent. Trustees for a trust?

Ah yes I see, Stanmore Trust.

[winner69]

Did Paul Byrnes lose a bet to Todd Hunter? Trying to figure this one out..

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/336177/301827.pdf

Chairman Key sells his bach to CEO Hisco

(Stand in) Chairman Byrnes still some shares to CEO Hunter

[blackcap]

Chairman Key sells his Bach to CEO Hisco

(Stand in) Chairman Byrnes still some shares to CEO Hunter

I see a pattern developing here. Lets hope that Hunter Turners is not using his own firms elite market cars to travel around the country in style.

[toddhunter]

Afternoon all...a few comments from me which might be helpful.

Paul Byrnes is selling down some of his shares to settle on a property and fund a new restaurant he is an investor in. I am happy to purchase more shares because I believe in the company and the strategy.
The shares have been purchased in the name of my family trust...trustees are my wife, myself and Graham Leaming (yes he is the CFO @ Skellerup)
I am definitely not travelling around the country in elite cars owned by Turners...and I don't have a wine collection worth storing. I do drive the odd Turners car from Palmerston North to Levin where we have an Oxford office...I certainly wouldn't describe these as "elite" vehicles...more "value for money" vehicles.

Comments on Wellington City operation - we sell a mixture of makes and models, and a mix of consignment and owned stock. The consignment stock will definitely have little or no reconditioning spend on the vehicle, but should be priced accordingly compared to the alternatives further down Cambridge Terrace. Consignment vendors typically want to spend as little as possible on their cars. We lease the site off Transit NZ and was only ever designed to be temporary in nature (IE less than 5 years) which is why we have used the container setup. We have received a lot of positive comments about how this looks but I understand aesthetically not everyone will think we have aced this. The value for us was in very visible profile of the site for branding, and to help customers understand we "retail" cars as well as auction cars...we are averaging 30 sale per month from this yard. The photos give you a sense for the location, and the stock on the yard which was taken in the last 7 days...definitely not all European cars.


106251062610627

[percy]

Todd,
Thank you for your comments.
Unfortunately the attachment did not work for me.

ps
Investment news publication "The Headliner", has a positve article on Turners, according to a friend.He is dropping it off next week for me to read.
.

[oldtech]

Looks like there are supposed to be three attachments - I can't open any of them I'm afraid.

[toddhunter]

I will try again...hopefully that works Austen.

10630
10629
10628

[percy]

I will try again...hopefully that works Austen.

10630
10629
10628

Thanks Todd,
Worked perfectly.
Looks "the business" to me.
Interesting comments about branding and the fact Turners "retail" cars ,as well as auctioning them.

[Joshuatree]

The Basin site is awful, a tiny, partly gravel forecourt, shipping containers for offices, and of course the cars look even older and crappier because of all the high roller flash Harry’s car yards on both sides of Kent and Cambridge Tce’s. I think the whole thing looks cheap and nasty, doing the brand a disservice IMO.

Pictures are not deceiving here.Looks great , thanks Todd, great business case and costs savings there..

[Balance]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/336288/301966.pdf

So Paul has sold 703,000 shares on market so far.

[percy]

Go back a page and find out why.

[Balance]

Go back a page and find out why.

Convenient, isn't it?

[minimoke]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/336288/301966.pdf

So Paul has sold 703,000 shares on market so far.
You know what they say. How do you end up being a millionaire in the hospitality business. Start with $2m

[winner69]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/336288/301966.pdf

So Paul has sold 703,000 shares on market so far.

With last weeks 77,000 shares and the 120,000 he’s sold to Hunter he’s hocked off 900,000 in total.

Restaurants are expensive you know ......even more than normal if they have a deck area for dining.

Obviously better prospects in food than selling cars

[Ggcc]

You know what they say. How do you end up being a millionaire in the hospitality business. Start with $2m
I agree with hospitality it is so difficult to make money. Best to stick to what you know best. If you know nothing about hospitality you might need to sell a few more shares to keep the business afloat.

[percy]

I agree with hospitality it is so difficult to make money. Best to stick to what you know best. If you know nothing about hospitality you might need to sell a few more shares to keep the business afloat.

His history/ track record shows he is sticking to what he knows best.

ps Forgot I was not bothering to post on this thread.Quess Todd brought me back.lol.

[winner69]

Hope the others who have skin in the game haven’t decided that property (and restaurants) are a better bet...and decided that enough is enough and are moving on

[Balance]

Hope the others who have skin in the game haven’t decided that property (and restaurants) are a better bet...and decided that enough is enough and are moving on

First come, best dressed! Paul has taken some of his money out by selling some of the horrendously undervalued shares before others do?

Restaurant trade? The late Anthony Bourdain wrote this :

"TO WANT TO OWN a restaurant can be a strange and terrible affliction.

What causes such a destructive urge in so many otherwise sensible people?

Why would anyone who has worked hard, saved money, often been successful in other fields, want to pump their hard-earned cash
down a hole that statistically, at least, will almost surely prove dry?

Why venture into an industry with enormous fixed expenses (rent, electricity, gas, water, linen, maintenance, insurance,
license fees, trash removal, etc.), with a notoriously transient and unstable workforce, and highly
perishable inventory of assets?

The chances of ever seeing a return on your investment are about one in five.

What insidious spongiform bacteria so riddles the brains of men and women that they stand there on the tracks, watching the lights of the oncoming locomotive, knowing full
well it will eventually run them over?

After all these years in the business, I still don't know."

[SilverBack]

First come, best dressed! Paul has taken some of his money out by selling some of the horrendously undervalued shares before others do?

Restaurant trade? The late Anthony Bourdain wrote this :

"TO WANT TO OWN a restaurant can be a strange and terrible affliction.

What causes such a destructive urge in so many otherwise sensible people?

Why would anyone who has worked hard, saved money, often been successful in other fields, want to pump their hard-earned cash
down a hole that statistically, at least, will almost surely prove dry?

Why venture into an industry with enormous fixed expenses (rent, electricity, gas, water, linen, maintenance, insurance,
license fees, trash removal, etc.), with a notoriously transient and unstable workforce, and highly
perishable inventory of assets?

The chances of ever seeing a return on your investment are about one in five.

What insidious spongiform bacteria so riddles the brains of men and women that they stand there on the tracks, watching the lights of the oncoming locomotive, knowing full
well it will eventually run them over?

After all these years in the business, I still don't know."

Yes, a bit like being run over by a MOA.

[SilverBack]

I will try again...hopefully that works Austen.



Agreed the site is well placed with good visibility by the public. Being on "car alley" is also good for tyre kickers. Everything else is just aesthetics and as you say a matter of opinion. The people going to a fancy Porsche or Jaguar showroom down the road are not going to come this Turners yard anyway and the people who do come are more likely to avoid a fancy place because they know it just results in high prices.

[winner69]

Suppose selling one car a day (on average) at the Wellington site is a pretty good effort

Would have to think there are quite a few really quiet days with no sales being made.

[percy]

Suppose selling one car a day (on average) at the Wellington site is a pretty good effort

Would have to think there are quite a few really quiet days with no sales being made.

Certainly is.
One complete stock turn every 5 or 6 weeks.

[Balance]

Certainly is.
One complete stock turn every 5 or 6 weeks.

Not as good as a restaurant though. Stock turn every 3 days!

[percy]

Not as good as a restaurant though. Stock turn every 3 days!

Even better if you are like Paul Byrne and own the property too.

[winner69]

Certainly is.
One complete stock turn every 5 or 6 weeks.

Fake news percy

Hard to count the cars in the photos but it looks like 70 to 80 ....website says 70 vehicles available

Using the 70 number that’s complete stock turn every 10 weeks

[percy]

Fake news percy

Hard to count the cars in the photos but it looks like 70 to 80 ....website says 70 vehicles available

Using the 70 number that’s complete stock turn every 10 weeks

My mistake I only counted about 40 vehicles in the photo.
Don't know where the other 30 were.

[percy]

My mistake I only counted about 40 vehicles in the photo.
Don't know where the other 30 were.
Say 60 cars ,one stock turn every 8 weeks,or 6.5 a year.Excellent.[twice as good as the book trade]..
And the big bonus is the site clearly defines Turners as a car retailer,not just as a car auction house.[clever].

ps.Job for you W69.
Count the cars on the yard..

[SilverBack]

Suppose selling one car a day (on average) at the Wellington site is a pretty good effort

Would have to think there are quite a few really quiet days with no sales being made.

So what is the average sales per month for used car sales yards in Wellington? You need some facts before getting sarcastic.

[winner69]

So what is the average sales per month for used car sales yards in Wellington? You need some facts before getting sarcastic.

Wasn’t being sarcastic, just seemed that one sale a day wasn’t that many

Don’t know what a good stockturn is for used car yards but taking 50 to 70 days on average to move a car along seems a long time. All I know is a dealer told me a year or so ago he got a bit worried if a car didn’t sell in a month.

It only takes 30 days to sell a house in Wellington

[forest]

So what is the average sales per month for used car sales yards in Wellington? You need some facts before getting sarcastic.

Hi SilverBack, done a bit of googling and the average number of sales a car sales consultant does seemed to be 10 a month.
On Turners website it shows 2 people working at the Wellington car yard, according to Tod the yard sells 30 cars a month. If they indeed only employ 2 people at this branch then the sales numbers are impressive.

Wellington Turners car yard branch
Derek Barnes - Operations Manager - 0274 438 689
John Burroughs - Sales Consultant - 027 403 4621

[steveb]

Surely the amount of cars sold has to be linked to the price, age and make of the vechicle.Can't imagine a luxury car yard selling 30 cars a month out of a stock of 70 units!

[winner69]

OK ....That site looks like it is performing well.

That’s good news

[Jay]

Surely the amount of cars sold has to be linked to the price, age and make of the vechicle.Can't imagine a luxury car yard selling 30 cars a month out of a stock of 70 units!
Must be in some way, plus the margin on the average Ferrari would be somewhat higher then the average imported Nissan/Mazda etc

[RTM]

Must be in some way, plus the margin on the average Ferrari would be somewhat higher then the average imported Nissan/Mazda etc

Lucky we have people who know what they are doing running the show.
Hopefully !

[SilverBack]

Hi SilverBack, done a bit of googling and the average number of sales a car sales consultant does seemed to be 10 a month.
On Turners website it shows 2 people working at the Wellington car yard, according to Tod the yard sells 30 cars a month. If they indeed only employ 2 people at this branch then the sales numbers are impressive.

Wellington Turners car yard branch
Derek Barnes - Operations Manager - 0274 438 689
John Burroughs - Sales Consultant - 027 403 4621

Thanks for doing the hard yards Forest. Probably need to cut Todd's comment in two to get close to the reality (he runs a cars sales company after all) but seems even so to be a reasonable level of activity.
A few decades ago, I knew a guy who was used car sales manager for a franchise in the Wellington region. It was a a significant franchise. He became very depressed one year when they only sold 4 cars in a month. His worst result ever. This was in a Government induced recession. I think this acts as a lower bound. I cannot tell you how many sales staff he had.

[Leftfield]

Interesting comments re Aussie house sales declines and new car sales and car finance declines in this article. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-25/car-sales-slump-as-economy-hits-speed-bump/11240180)

Of course it won't happen here and won't effect TNR....... or will it?

[peat]

Interesting comments re Aussie house sales declines and new car sales and car finance declines in this article. (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-25/car-sales-slump-as-economy-hits-speed-bump/11240180)

Of course it won't happen here and won't effect TNR....... or will it?

didn't seem to affect todays price action in CMO up 1.5%

[Leftfield]

didn't seem to affect todays price action in CMO up 1.5%

I'm not surprised. CMO has proven to be a sound investment over a many years (and wasn't mentioned in my post)

However, TNR much more risky IMHO.

(Disc - don't hold either)

[winner69]

Full Annual Report out - that will keep snoopy busy this weekend to see how much normalised profit grew by

I await Snoopy’s view on Note 32

Baker only missed 1 Board meeting this year ..much better performance by him

Lease obligations $32m ..that seems a lot but then again they are in retail

[bull....]

milford sold a lot of shares recently obviously into the buy back

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/336827

[peat]

milford sold a lot of shares recently obviously into the buy back

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/336827

they sold just under a million shares in the marked
time


10648

its obviously bad they sold one percent of the company.
they still have just over 5% though.

share price has been down then up and now about the same as when they started selling.

buy back obviously supported the price but it wouldn't appear to be the only thing doing so.

hmmm.

[bull....]

Turners invest in AUS car subscription and sharing business
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/336956

[bull....]

heres some info on the company they are buying a s/h in

cl8 on the ASX a company that is worth 1c share price thats right 1c highly successful obviously and in desparate need of cash

heres a presentation of drivemy car

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20190501/pdf/444r8njtn1b9f6.pdf

[SilverBack]

Best of luck to Turners. CL8 has been steadily declining for the past 2 years with a market cap of $7.2M prior to Turners announcement. DriveMyCar? Blow that, go and get your own.

[GTM 3442]

New Zealand company moving into Australia?

Based on history - no thank you!

[bull....]

Best of luck to Turners. CL8 has been steadily declining for the past 2 years with a market cap of $7.2M prior to Turners announcement. DriveMyCar? Blow that, go and get your own.

lol heres some more info

the funny thing about the investment is collaborate say is the auto market is being disrupted , dealers margins on new and used car sales are declining.


younger people dont want to own cars just want flexible access to cars thats the market for us , subscription service.


by 2025 major car manufacturers will offer subscription service on new cars.

So are TRA investing just in case they are disrupted?

and

yet in there cashflow statement ,, problems they say drivemycar

competitor discounting affected our demand , the large players discounted to unrealistic pricing levels this is not sustainable in our view.


so turners are going to learn from a company that is struggling to survive?


https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20190430/pdf/444qmkvwtx1sb7.pdf

[BlackPeter]

heres some info on the company they are buying a s/h in

cl8 on the ASX a company that is worth 1c share price thats right 1c highly successful obviously and in desparate need of cash

heres a presentation of drivemy car

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20190501/pdf/444r8njtn1b9f6.pdf

Nice presentation.

Actually - one could argue that the performance of CL8 and TRA is correlated ... though TRA (the blue line) lost only 35% in the last 2 years and CL8 (the orange line) lost in the same timeframe 70%:

10652

But then - who knows, maybe the cunning TRA board did just wait until CL8 bottomed out and all is up from here?

But irony apart - the investment might strategically well make sense for TRA if we see them as a car dealer looking for diversification in their field. Car sharing is clearly one of the identified risks for them.

It is just - it does not look like their last strategy (one stop shop for used car buyers) was particularly successful, i.e. the markets probably just need to first gain some confidence that after their recent strategic turn they are suddenly doing all the right things ...

[percy]

Turners current market cap is over nz $204 mil.
The 12.13% of CL8 is costing them au $1 mil.
Feeling the water by putting their small pinking toe in.
If they loose the au $1 mil I expect Turners will survive.

[BlackPeter]

Turners current market cap is over nz $204 mil.
The 12.13% of CL8 is costing them au $1 mil.
Feeling the water by putting their small pinking toe in.
If they loose the au $1 mil I expect Turners will survive.

I think you are right.

Still interesting that TRA's (car selling) and CL8's (car sharing) performance appears to be sort of correlated, but maybe the common factor lies somewhere else. Any ideas?

[SilverBack]

No doubt Turners want to use the CL8 software to market the sharing facilities in NZ. Whether or not they use the DriveMyCar brand or adopt their own remains to be seen.

[Baa_Baa]

No doubt Turners want to use the CL8 software to market the sharing facilities in NZ. Whether or not they use the DriveMyCar brand or adopt their own remains to be seen.

On the face of it that would appear logical, giving Turners quick access to a car sharing platform. Oddly though it is a big departure from core business, but then again Turners have yards full of vehicles that they could be offering to market for car sharing. I've followed CL8 for about 5 years, they have not impressed me in any respects, constantly shifting strategy, schizophrenic solutions left abandoned when they don't work out, constantly raising capital, share price around all time lows after years of decline, propped up by Hyshenk (major shareholder), poor execution, questionable leadership, unprofitable. They have for year mislead shareholders on imminent profitability, no more cap raises and been opaque about strategy or execution. They may survive and prosper eventually but since I've been in and out a few times (an occasional trade on news, sell the spike), I've seen numerous competitors emerge in Aus that are executing more effectively, and now there are a number of established competitors (in car sharing) in New Zealand.

I'm unsure why Turners would diverge into car sharing and slap a cool million into this company CL8. Has this been flagged anywhere in their strategy? If so they could've bought CL8 at 7/10th's of a cent recently (or maybe that's what they paid?). Again on face value, this is a much better deal initially for CL8 than it is for Turners, CL8 get the money and Turners get a stake in a company that has struggled for years.

[percy]

I think you are right.

Still interesting that TRA's (car selling) and CL8's (car sharing) performance appears to be sort of correlated, but maybe the common factor lies somewhere else. Any ideas?
No ideas at all.!
I take confidence in Todd Hunter being a lot closer to the second hand car market than I am.I guess he sees the market going in certain directions, and the tie up with CL8 will save Turners time and money,trying to be ahead.
We have seen HGH with Harmoney [and others],and Ebos is doing the same with MDR.[putting a small pinkie toe in the water]
I am sure Todd will give us the full reasons when we have their [shortly to be announced] travelling shareholders' Road Show.

Thanks to my kind friend, who sent me photos of the work in progress at Turners new Archers Road site.Coming aong nicely,and looks as though it is going to be a cracker.!

[Marilyn Munroe]

I was listening to a item on Radio NZ the other day which covered the competition between ride sharing apps OLA and Uber.

The head honcho of Uber in NZ was questioned whether this competition would harm Uber's pofitabilty. Possibly the honcho conceded but we are developing diversification into new fields including car sharing.

So if Turners brings their own sharing business to NZ they may be in the market space with Uber. A company with a proven record of implementation and customer acceptance.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Balance]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/turners-faces-legal-action-disgruntled-vendor

Interesting.

Means TRA got a good deal or bad deal?

[percy]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/turners-faces-legal-action-disgruntled-vendor

Interesting.

Means TRA got a good deal or bad deal?

Depends who you are,either Turners or BuyRight Cars vendors.
Going to court means both parties feel "hard done by".
Turners have had to put their own people in, and rebranded to Turners,so that shows how Turners see it.
BuyRight Cars will say they had a great business, until Turners buggered it.
The courts are the best place to sort it out.
What I would like to know is how the rebranded business is performing.I would guess the Turners strong brand is working just fine.

[bull....]

Heat Comes Off New Vehicle Market
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1907/S00074/heat-comes-off-new-vehicle-market.htm

new car sales feed into used car sales

[Balance]

Heat Comes Off New Vehicle Market
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1907/S00074/heat-comes-off-new-vehicle-market.htm

new car sales feed into used car sales

And exactly per your comment : https://autotalk.co.nz/news/imports-continue-steep-decline

"Imports continue steep decline"

[percy]

And exactly per your comment : https://autotalk.co.nz/news/imports-continue-steep-decline

"Imports continue steep decline"
Did not realise Turners sourcing more cars in NZ would affect imports so much.

[Balance]

And exactly per your comment : https://autotalk.co.nz/news/imports-continue-steep-decline

"Imports continue steep decline"

Real estate agent at our coffee group has been bemoaning the huge drop off in property sales since the beginning of the year - waste of time having open homes (a basic requirement to win a listing) during the weekends but she has no choice but to continue to do so.

As to why she is feeling such an exponential hit on her income, her observation is that the good years leading to 2017 had attracted a huge increase in real estate agents and when you have less sales as now, the equation is most distressing indeed to income levels.

Car sales dropping and looking around at the proliferation of used car yards all over Auckland (cannot comment on other parts of NZ), the same can only be true as well of car dealers.

More car dealers + less car sales = lower margins = less profits.

[percy]

What your friend told you is contrary to what I, and Turners see.
The second hand car sales yards are contracting,ie fewer yards and fewer dealers.
This is perhaps one of the reasons Turners are gaining market share.

[dreamcatcher]

Real estate agent at our coffee group has been bemoaning the huge drop off in property sales since the beginning of the year - waste of time having open homes (a basic requirement to win a listing) during the weekends but she has no choice but to continue to do so.

As to why she is feeling such an exponential hit on her income, her observation is that the good years leading to 2017 had attracted a huge increase in real estate agents and when you have less sales as now, the equation is most distressing indeed to income levels.

Car sales dropping and looking around at the proliferation of used car yards all over Auckland (cannot comment on other parts of NZ), the same can only be true as well of car dealers.

More car dealers + less car sales = lower margins = less profits.

To add to real estate agents problems appears property prices still dropping for June ..........and you are correct, far too many car yards and unofficial dealers that Turners supply lining most streets with For Sale notices on windows. Anybody with a few bucks can import cars in competition is dwindling the gravy pot.

[dreamcatcher]

What your friend told you is contrary to what I, and Turners see.
The second hand car sales yards are contracting,ie fewer yards and fewer dealers.
This is perhaps one of the reasons Turners are gaining market share.

Anyone that survives contracting car yards is gaining "market share" not just Turners but also allows more profitable road side dealers or Trademe dealers...........

[percy]

Compliance costs and more regulations, are driving the small importers out of the market.

[dreamcatcher]

Compliance costs and more regulations, are driving the small importers out of the market.

A family of 3 can sell 6 vehicles EACH per 12-months period in NZ without being registered as a motor vehicle trader. Add parents to that FAMILY brings numbers to 30 vehicles............ No Yard, No Warehousing, No compliance

[percy]

Well I was replying to imports,where compliance costs and new regulations are driving small importers out of the market..

Yes your family can sell a good number of vehicles.That has always been the case.I worked at ChCh Ford dealer,Hutchinson Motors, 1966 to 1969,and the guys in the parts dept used to have competitions who could trade the most cars each weekend.
Since that time the market has freed up more,yet Colonial Motor Co.[owners of Hutchinson Motors] have grown,and Turners have grown in the past 50 years to become the largest retailer of second hand cars in NZ.and have the strategy in place to grow further.
ps.Turners North Shore site in Archers Road is looking as though it will be fantastic when it is finished.

[Balance]

Well I was replying to imports,where compliance costs and new regulations are driving small importers out of the market..

Yes your family can sell a good number of vehicles.That has always been the case.I worked at ChCh Ford dealer,Hutchinson Motors, 1966 to 1969,and the guys in the parts dept used to have competitions who could trade the most cars each weekend.
Since that time the market has freed up more,yet Colonial Motor Co.[owners of Hutchinson Motors] have grown,and Turners have grown in the past 50 years to become the largest retailer of second hand cars in NZ.and have the strategy in place to grow further.
ps.Turners North Shore site in Archers Road is looking as though it will be fantastic when it is finished.

Suspect you may find that Turners overall market share is down when you add Right Cars market share to Turners.

Turners have had to perform radical surgery on Right Cars - with post surgical complications in the law suit!

Biggest retailer of used cars in a downturn means biggest impact on them as well.

[percy]

Yes BuyRight Cars lack of performance added to Turners North Shore closure,[compulsorily acquired by NZTA,]together with softer Auckland market added plenty of challenges.The law suit,I know as much as you.
Rebranding BuyRight Cars to Turners, together with a new fantastic North Shore branch at Archers Road, and a new branch at Westgate,should see Turners well placed,in Auckland.
The last big down turn in NZ used car market [think it was 2009/2010] did not affect Turners a great deal.

[Balance]

Yes BuyRight Cars lack of performance added to Turners North Shore closure,[compulsorily acquired by NZTA,]together with softer Auckland market added plenty of challenges.The law suit,I know as much as you.
Rebranding BuyRight Cars to Turners, together with a new fantastic North Shore branch at Archers Road, and a new branch at Westgate,should see Turners well placed,in Auckland.
The last big down turn in NZ used car market [think it was 2009/2010] did not affect Turners a great deal.

Turners was principally an auction house then, remember?

[percy]

Turners was principally an auction house then, remember?

Yes,I remember it well.
So today with the better margins retailing, rather than wholesaling.they are in a much stronger position.
Add on finance ,insurance ,and property development margin, I would have to say I think they are "well positioned,."


I am taking another leave from this thread.
I am not going to change my mind,neither is anyone else.
Pointless.

[Balance]

Yes,I remember it well.
So today with the better margins retailing, rather than wholesaling.they are in a much stronger position.
Add on finance ,insurance ,and property development margin, I would have to say I think they are "well positioned,."


I am taking another leave from this thread.
I am not going to change my mind,neither is anyone else.
Pointless.

Actually, auctioning in bad times is good business.

Retailing in bad times? Volume decreases along with margins.

Finance, insurance and property development (TRA style) feed off retail volumes - as they were "well positioned" on the way up, they are going to feel the ill effects "positioned" on the way down.

Explains I think why the likes of Milford (& Paul Brynes) are taking the opportunity to get out - the share buyback being a godsend as far as they are concerned!

[Leftfield]

I am taking another leave from this thread.
I am not going to change my mind,neither is anyone else.Pointless.

You will be missed Percy. I've appreciated your input for many years.

While you seem to be a lone voice for the merits of TNR at the moment, please remember that some of the contrary comments here are well intentioned and genuinely concerned about your choice and TNR.

I wish you well and will genuinely miss your wise posts and hope you come back refreshed. (Disc; Don't hold TNR .)

[RTM]

Yes,I remember it well.
So today with the better margins retailing, rather than wholesaling.they are in a much stronger position.
Add on finance ,insurance ,and property development margin, I would have to say I think they are "well positioned,."


I am taking another leave from this thread.
I am not going to change my mind,neither is anyone else.
Pointless.

Morning Percy....
Good move taking leave, I agree that its probably all been said
We need the company results to speak in either a positive or negative way.

Good luck to all holders ! Yep...that includes me.

[Balance]

Morning Percy....
Good move taking leave, I agree that its probably all been said
We need the company results to speak in either a positive or negative way.

Good luck to all holders ! Yep...that includes me.

Results are too late usually to get in or get out.

Why investors pay a fortune for analysts to monitor and assess stocks on an ongoing basis.

[sb9]

Yes,I remember it well.
So today with the better margins retailing, rather than wholesaling.they are in a much stronger position.
Add on finance ,insurance ,and property development margin, I would have to say I think they are "well positioned,."


I am taking another leave from this thread.
I am not going to change my mind,neither is anyone else.
Pointless.

May be you should come back now after big purchase (500k shares) by Martin Barry (Director) on Friday.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/337343

[Joshuatree]

thanks sb9, a big vote of confidence there, phew!

[sb9]

thanks sb9, a big vote of confidence there, phew!

I think so too. And from memory, he is the newly appointed Director from last year ans based out of Singapore. And has very impressive background as per below:

Martin BerryIndependent Director - Appointed August 2018
Martin Berry is a seasoned global financial services executive having run large international businesses for the likes of ANZ, Citibank, Barclays and Standard Chartered. He later focused on more entrepreneurial ventures with a successful track record of having built, acquired and sold several companies with values in excess of USD 100m. Martin later founded and now runs venture capital firm Brandhaus Capital Partners out of Singapore investing across the region with a strong focus on fintech.

[bull....]

could be a negative

The Government wants to provide discounts for importing cleaner cars to New Zealandhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247724

[Snow Leopard]

could be a negative

The Government wants to provide discounts for importing cleaner cars to New Zealand

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247724

"The Government is signalling its intention to slash the price of imported electric and hybrid vehicles by up to $8000 in a bid to make greener cars cheaper for Kiwis"

I am in Georgia (the country) at the moment and the most common car by far is the Toyota Prius because of incentives like the above.

It was the same in Ulaanbaatar (Mongolia) a few years ago.

[bull....]

"The Government is signalling its intention to slash the price of imported electric and hybrid vehicles by up to $8000 in a bid to make greener cars cheaper for Kiwis"

I am in Georgia (the country) at the moment and the most common car by far is the Toyota Prius because of incentives like the above.

It was the same in Ulaanbaatar (Mongolia) a few years ago.

enjoying yourself i imagine. just goes to show how far NZ is behind the ball lol

[Balance]

could be a negative

The Government wants to provide discounts for importing cleaner cars to New Zealandhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247724

A change like this usually leads to a massive upsurge in demand - would have thought it is a positive?

I talked to several Uber drivers in recent times and they all say they can only make their Uber business work due to the hybrid vehicles (Toyota mostly) they drive - they get 800 kms to a tank vs 250kms to 300kms for combustion and low maintenance.

Justifies the initial higher vehicle cost.

[bull....]

A change like this usually leads to a massive upsurge in demand - would have thought it is a positive?

I talked to several Uber drivers in recent times and they all say they can only make their Uber business work due to the hybrid vehicles (Toyota mostly) they drive - they get 800 kms to a tank vs 250kms to 300kms for combustion and low maintenance.

Justifies the initial higher vehicle cost.

people rushing to beat price hikes im guessing your alluding to? only short term boost to a declining new vehicle sales market. next they might ban diesel engines lol

[percy]

Sorry to pop in.
Note this year's agm is back to its normal week.

[percy]

RoadShow dates have been announced.

[Joshuatree]

Just hope there are no unexpected surprises;)
Police Uses Spike Strip To Stop Drunk Driver - Estonia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6HMS4jBY_A)

[Joshuatree]

Tuesday 30 July 10am, Auckland Penrose Corners Penrose and Leonard Roads,


Penrose


Tuesday 30 July 4pm, Hamilton 112 Avalon Drive, Hamilton


Wednesday 31 July 10am, Wellington 9 John Seddon Drive Porirua


Wednesday 31 July 4pm, Palmerston North 201 John F Kennedy Drive, Palmerston


North


Wednesday 7th August 10am, Nelson 226 Trafalgar St, Nelson


Wednesday 7th August 5pm, Christchurch 1 Detroit Place, Christchurch


Thursday 8th August 2pm, Dunedin Level 1, 98 George St, Dunedin


Monday 12th August 2pm, Whangarei Corner Walton and Manu Roads


Tuesday 13th August 11am, New Plymouth 690 Devon Road, New Plymouth


Friday 16th August 11am, Tauranga 26 Hull Road, Mt Maunganui, Tauranga


Thursday 22nd August 10am, Napier 43 Corunna Bay, Napier

[winner69]

Working on your normalised profit calculations I hope Snoopy

Looking forward in seeing what you come up ...compared to your ‘forecast’

[Snoopy]

Working on your normalised profit calculations I hope Snoopy

Looking forward in seeing what you come up ...compared to your ‘forecast’


Not yet Winner. I am having a year of doing a lot of things away from 'home base'. Last time I was back there (last week) no TRA annual report hard copy had yet arrived. And because I like to scribble on mine, I haven't even looked at the soft copy available on line. In any case I would advise any investors in TRA not to stress about it. Limited downside from here is my view. Looking forward to my own report on TRA, very likely on this channel, when it all comes out in the wash!

SNOOPY

[winner69]

Not yet Winner. I am having a year of doing a lot of things away from 'home base'. Last time I was back there (last week) no TRA annual report hard copy had yet arrived. And because I like to scribble on mine, I haven't even looked at the soft copy available on line. In any case I would advise any investors in TRA not to stress about it. Limited downside from here is my view. Looking forward to my own report on TRA, very likely on this channel, when it all comes out in the wash!

SNOOPY

Good stuff ...I look forward to it

Enjoy your time away from home base

[LAC]

$$$ in the bank;)

[RTM]

$$$ in the bank;)

Yes...if my average buy was a lot less than 302 I’d be happy.
But it isn’t sadly.

[CD_CHCH]

Our average buy is also north of $3.00 but do appreciate the quarterly dividends rolling in - hopefully the share price will turn around and show some decent gains in the not too distant future

[BlackPeter]

Our average buy is also north of $3.00 but do appreciate the quarterly dividends rolling in - hopefully the share price will turn around and show some decent gains in the not too distant future

Wishing you luck ... though wiser people than me tend to re-iterate that hope is not an investment strategy ...

[CD_CHCH]

Valid point and if I'm hearing you correctly our stock picking strategy shouldn't involve throwing a dart at the NZX listings in Saturday's newspaper? :)

[percy]

TRA are an important part of my portfolio.Sound dividends and prospects of solid earnings growth.
My wife's and my portfolios have been updated by Craigs this morning.Our portfolios have a mixture of growth and yield stocks.
The objective has been to achieve 5% growth and 5% dividend yield.
Since exactly a year ago they have achieved 26.95% growth.On top of this we have enjoyed substantial income from dividends.
With this growth, the dividend % yield has decreased,although the dividends have increased.No dividend reinvestments.
Solid research rather than hope provides growth and yield .
The coming year objectives are:5% plus growth and steady dividends.

[BlackPeter]

TRA are an important part of my portfolio.Sound dividends and prospects of solid earnings growth.
My wfe and my portfolios have been updated by Craigs this morning.Our portfolios have a mixture of growth and yield stocks.
The objective has been to achieve 5% growth and 5% dividend yield.
Since exactly a year ago they have achieved 26.95% growth.On top of this we have enjoyed substantial income from dividends.
With this growth, the dividend % yield has decreased,although the dividends have increased.No dividend reinvestments.
Solid research rather than hope provides growth and yield .

Hi percy, great that you and your wife have been that successful, despite investing parts of your funds into TRA. Just imagine, though what returns you would have had without having TRA as handbrake in your portfolio.

Look - it is great that you and your wife can afford to invest into TRA despite making losses, but maybe not everybody on this forum is in the same fortunate position. But let's forget about Turners not so spotless history (in terms of conserving shareholder value) - I struggle to understand why you think that they would be now a good investment?

Sure - they might be the next big thing as "netflix of the car industry" and maybe they release as well a highly successful cryptocoin - who knows? but let's face it - the indicators and the odds for TRA look currently not particularly good.

BTW - Just wondering, whether Todd starts to regret his netflix comparison ... he used it before netflix released their latest growth numbers .... Ouch. Maybe the comparison was not that wrong ...

Look - they (Turners) are just a plain old used car company which used to have an interesting looking growth strategy which however did not work, and they recently ditched it. They demonstrated that they are not able to grow their earnings with insurance and finance (and this is not due lack of trying) and their (cyclical) core business is currently shrinking.

Not quite sure what makes them standing out of the crowd ... sure, they are reasonable big, but their cars are (as with most other second hand dealers) not always a Paragon of Excellence ... and if you check their customer reviews, they are a mixed bag as well.

They are now saying they try something different with this car sharing platform, but lets face it - they have neither industry nor regional (Australia) experience. I would consider this as a very high risk proposition coming from a company and a board with a long term history of reducing shareholder funds.

Question - if they are really successful - where do you see them going? And where, if they just continue their current trajectory?

Is it worth the risk?

[RTM]

Hi percy, great that you and your wife have been that successful, despite investing parts of your funds into TRA. Just imagine, though what returns you would have had without having TRA as handbrake in your portfolio.

Look - it is great that you and your wife can afford to invest into TRA despite making losses, but maybe not everybody on this forum is in the same fortunate position. But let's forget about Turners not so spotless history (in terms of conserving shareholder value) - I struggle to understand why you think that they would be now a good investment?

Sure - they might be the next big thing as "netflix of the car industry" and maybe they release as well a highly successful cryptocoin - who knows? but let's face it - the indicators and the odds for TRA look currently not particularly good.

BTW - Just wondering, whether Todd starts to regret his netflix comparison ... he used it before netflix released their latest growth numbers .... Ouch. Maybe the comparison was not that wrong ...

Look - they (Turners) are just a plain old used car company which used to have an interesting looking growth strategy which however did not work, and they recently ditched it. They demonstrated that they are not able to grow their earnings with insurance and finance (and this is not due lack of trying) and their (cyclical) core business is currently shrinking.

Not quite sure what makes them standing out of the crowd ... sure, they are reasonable big, but their cars are (as with most other second hand dealers) not always a Paragon of Excellence ... and if you check their customer reviews, they are a mixed bag as well.

They are now saying they try something different with this car sharing platform, but lets face it - they have neither industry nor regional (Australia) experience. I would consider this as a very high risk proposition coming from a company and a board with a long term history of reducing shareholder funds.

Question - if they are really successful - where do you see them going? And where, if they just continue their current trajectory?

Is it worth the risk?

Good post BP. They are a part of my portfolio as well. And I am a bit concerned.
However....like most things in there...they are only 3.44 % (used to be bigger).
The value (SWAN) of a well diversified portfolio is significant, especially when one of the companies go south.

[percy]

Hi percy, great that you and your wife have been that successful, despite investing parts of your funds into TRA. Just imagine, though what returns you would have had without having TRA as handbrake in your portfolio.

Look - it is great that you and your wife can afford to invest into TRA despite making losses, but maybe not everybody on this forum is in the same fortunate position. But let's forget about Turners not so spotless history (in terms of conserving shareholder value) - I struggle to understand why you think that they would be now a good investment?

Sure - they might be the next big thing as "netflix of the car industry" and maybe they release as well a highly successful cryptocoin - who knows? but let's face it - the indicators and the odds for TRA look currently not particularly good.

BTW - Just wondering, whether Todd starts to regret his netflix comparison ... he used it before netflix released their latest growth numbers .... Ouch. Maybe the comparison was not that wrong ...

Look - they (Turners) are just a plain old used car company which used to have an interesting looking growth strategy which however did not work, and they recently ditched it. They demonstrated that they are not able to grow their earnings with insurance and finance (and this is not due lack of trying) and their (cyclical) core business is currently shrinking.

Not quite sure what makes them standing out of the crowd ... sure, they are reasonable big, but their cars are (as with most other second hand dealers) not always a Paragon of Excellence ... and if you check their customer reviews, they are a mixed bag as well.

They are now saying they try something different with this car sharing platform, but lets face it - they have neither industry nor regional (Australia) experience. I would consider this as a very high risk proposition coming from a company and a board with a long term history of reducing shareholder funds.

Question - if they are really successful - where do you see them going? And where, if they just continue their current trajectory?

Is it worth the risk?

Some things I do not know.
Was talking to my friend this morning who reminded me he told me to buy ATM at 17 cents, and he noted they are trading at near $17.00.
I also thought TradeMe would never work.Thought Morgan should have taken the $35 mil he was offered.Surprised he got $750mil.
Turners are NZ's largest second hand car dealer.They have the super strong Turners brand .They are finding there are many chanels to reach their customers and grow their business.Their business is both growing and gaining market share.Their new and relocated sites are trading well.7 more on the way!
Yes mistakes were made,ie BuyRight Cars and non-recourse MTF loans.BuyRight Cars has been rebranded Turners, and the non-recourse loans were stopped and will run their course over the next 2 years.
The car sharing platform could be another A2 or TradeMe.Turners would be fools not to look into it.Remember all the rubbish posted about HGH taking on RELs.Now the biggest part of their business. What if the car sharing does not work?. Very little cost to Turners [1 or 2mil] finding out.

[percy]

Good post BP. They are a part of my portfolio as well. And I am a bit concerned.
However....like most things in there...they are only 3.44 % (used to be bigger).
The value (SWAN) of a well diversified portfolio is significant, especially when one of the companies go south.

Monday 12th August 2pm.Turners Corner,cnr Walton and Manu Roads ,Whangarei.....
Be there and catch Todd and Aaron.
They will answer all your questions frankly and honestly.

[winner69]

BP - don’t forget percy is an ‘investor’ and seems a pretty disciplined one at that. His timeframe is generally years and not days, weeks or months. No buying and selling on whims and every gyration of the market.

Every holding won’t be a winner at any particular time ....’investors’ always have some ‘losers’

Good on you percy

[BlackPeter]

BP - don’t forget percy is an ‘investor’ and seems a pretty disciplined one at that. His timeframe is generally years and not days, weeks or months. No buying and selling on whims and every gyration of the market.

Every holding won’t be a winner at any particular time ....’investors’ always have some ‘losers’

Good on you percy

Absolutely - just failing at the moment to see the big upside compared to the risks ...

And sure - we all have our fair share of losers in the portfolio (well, I do - and TRA was one of them). It is just that sometimes it appears that for holders the endowment effect is overtaking the analytical skills :):

[percy]

Absolutely - just failing at the moment to see the big upside compared to the risks ...

And sure - we all have our fair share of losers in the portfolio (well, I do - and TRA was one of them). It is just that sometimes it appears that for holders the endowment effect is overtaking the analytical skills :):

Objectives.When I am achieving my objectives it proves my research,and capital allocations is paying off.
Objective 5% growth...........Result 26.95%....Over 5 times the objective.
Objective 5% yield..Achieved.
This coming years objective.5% growth and steady dividends.Turners provide a good part of the steady dividends, and I would expect in the next year or two, [or three] they will provide good growth too.
I could not have asked more from my portfolio.At present time I have been adding to any company I hold that has an earnings upgrade ie ASX's MMI[doubled],MSV[doubled],and AQZ[added 60%].
I also added to my [asx] TFL in their rights issue .In NZ I liked ALF's house keeping so added a few more.

[BlackPeter]

Objectives.When I am achieving my objectives it proves my research,and capital allocations is paying off.
Objective 5% growth...........Result 26.95%....Over 5 times the objective.
Objective 5% yield..Achieved.
This coming years objective.5% growth and steady dividends.Turners provide a good part of the steady dividends, and I would expect in the next year or two, [or three] they will provide good growth too.
I could not have asked more from my portfolio.At present time I have been adding to any company I hold that has an earnings upgrade ie ASX's MMI[doubled],MSV[doubled],and AQZ[added 60%].
I also added to my [asx] TFL in their rights issue .In NZ I liked ALF's house keeping so added a few more.

Shouldn't we talk on this thread about TRA?

I remember a time when a poster named percy told me that he invests into companies who do what they say. Not sure, whether latter is true for TRA. They said that they want to become a one stop shop for buyers of pre-loved cars. However, this apparently was too hard for them despite charging an increased board fee for all the complications. Now they invented a new aspirational goal to become the netflix of second hand car dealing - whatever this means.

How do you measure whether Turners is keeping their promises? Do you at all - or did you just turn into a "believer"?

[percy]

The relocated and new branches.Using insurance company capital reserves for property development.Expanding foot print.Number of revenue streams.Simple good sense to me.Moving from wholesale to retail is working.
Yes I like the business [selling second hand cars], and yes I like the people.They are doing what they say they will do.
Same worked for me with HGH,EBO,FRE,MFT and is working a treat with PAZ.
Hard to explain but Turners are doing what I want,not just their business,but I am achieving the dividend I want.No matter
what the sp does over the next year or two, I will receive 17 cents plus or minus per share.The divie is fully imputed and paid quarterly.Regular divies mean I do not have to sell any shares to live.Makes a big difference to a retiree.
Once eps grow then we will see the sp rise.

Right time for me to take another break.
Have a good weekend.

[BobbyMorocco]

TRA are an important part of my portfolio.Sound dividends and prospects of solid earnings growth.
My wife's and my portfolios have been updated by Craigs this morning.Our portfolios have a mixture of growth and yield stocks.
The objective has been to achieve 5% growth and 5% dividend yield.
Since exactly a year ago they have achieved 26.95% growth.On top of this we have enjoyed substantial income from dividends.
With this growth, the dividend % yield has decreased,although the dividends have increased.No dividend reinvestments.
Solid research rather than hope provides growth and yield .
The coming year objectives are:5% plus growth and steady dividends.

Fantastic returns Percy. Well done! I'm sure your break will be enjoyed even more knowing that you received another Turner's dividend just a few days ago :-)

[Ggcc]

The impression that I am getting is that Milford are selling down even lower. Where do people see the bottom price? I keep thinking this is a good price then it goes down another cent or two. That dividend looks mouth watering indeed. I hold a few shares but not a lot. I won’t sell my A2 shares, as they keep rising. I am not too worried about TRA as I feel it is a great company. I have purchased a car firsthand from Turners and can not fault their service.

[SilverBack]

If you want to invest in a car company, then which one do you think is the best bet?

10696

10697

[Ggcc]

If you want to invest in a car company, then which one do you think is the best bet?

10696

10697

Thanks for your opinion and yes Colonial have done really well in the last years. Not too sure whether that growth will continue for both companies. We know it is tough out there in the automotive game, but I am looking forward to seeing Todd on the 22 August.

[SilverBack]

Thanks for your opinion and yes Colonial have done really well in the last years. Not too sure whether that growth will continue for both companies. We know it is tough out there in the automotive game, but I am looking forward to seeing Todd on the 22 August.

Actually, I am not invested in CMO. The point I was hoping to make is that TRA has not been succeeding while CMO has. One company's strategy has been failing them, while the other's has clearly been working for them. I doubt if actually seeing Todd will make a difference to the share price.

[Joshuatree]

What part has been failing Silver or are you just talking about the current weak s/p and big fundie selling down? Pretty strong generalisation imo. Being a holder i look forward to the meeting. I dont doubt that you double doubt it making a difference as you have no interest and won't be there. No doubt about that.;)

[SilverBack]

What part has been failing Silver or are you just talking about the current weak s/p and big fundie selling down? Pretty strong generalisation imo. Being a holder i look forward to the meeting. I dont doubt that you double doubt it making a difference as you have no interest and won't be there. No doubt about that.;)

No generalisation involved - just the facts shown by the charts. Did you look at the charts? The last two years show a steadily declining SP for TRA whereas CMO has been moving upwards. Hence, I am not just talking about the current weak SP or funds selling out. I am talking persistent downtrend followed by an admission by TRA that their strategy of coupling insurance with vehicle sales is failing while they seem to be adopting an (internationally) unproven "rental" model with increased risk, which might explain why the fund is moving on.
If you can express the reasons for CMO's success in the face of TRA's lack of success, then we will be much more informed.
I cannot believe in unsubstantiated statements of faith but I can believe in rational explanations as to why TRA might reverse their performance (seeing Todd face to face is not one of them).

[Joshuatree]

Thanks for your response.I know these meetings can be just a spruik to the converted but there are always some info thats int, especially rational questions from shareholders and worth going to if you own a part of the company.Take your point about the chart. I like the new potential direction, adapt or perish. Your opinion of Todd is fine for you but i dont accept that atpit. I have no thoughts on CMO. cheers JT

[SilverBack]

Thanks for your response.I know these meetings can be just a spruik to the converted but there are always some info thats int, especially rational questions from shareholders and worth going to if you own a part of the company.Take your point about the chart. I like the new potential direction, adapt or perish. Your opinion of Todd is fine for you but i dont accept that atpit. I have no thoughts on CMO. cheers JT

I have no opinion on Todd since I have never met him. I can only judge the company on its performance and announcements. Yes, ask some pertinent questions with determination, even if the Chair attempts to deflect them as they very easily do. I cannot be there but why not ask how CMO is succeeding but TRA is not? You will probbaly get b's'h''t back but at least they have to stop and think.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/338290

SOS sent to rescue 'undervalued' falling sp.

Interesting that it is not a 'P' sensitive announcement so they must be anticipating that the likes of Milford will continue to take advantage of the buyback to sell off the rest of their shares.

[bull....]

wasting more money on a buyback , i guess for the benefit of large s/h to exit there holding lol . money would be better spent on debt reduction in my opinion

Turners announces on-market share buyback programmehttps://www.nzx.com/announcements/338290

[Balance]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/338293/304335.pdf

On the road again.

Disappointing that there's no Ferrari anywhere in the presentation.

[sb9]

From today's presentation...

"All business divisions tracking ahead of budget and ahead of FY19 at end of Q1"

[Ggcc]

Too early to say, but I think the market likes the news so far. Again a little to early to say and I expect a drop this afternoon in share price as the giant keeps dumping their shares.

[dreamcatcher]

Oh dear no cheap shares for BuyBack as large holder pushed SP skywards now gets much better price on exit........... clever.

[percy]

Well I certainly like the buy back being continued.
The presentation is excellent and I am looking forward to the ChCh meeting.
Whangarei are trading gang busters.Archers Road looks brilliant and I look forward to more details on the new ChCh East site.[Another big one.}

[Balance]

From today's presentation...

"All business divisions tracking ahead of budget and ahead of FY19 at end of Q1"

Except for the one-offs which are becoming habitual?

[sb9]

Except for the one-offs which are becoming habitual?

Yes, agree to that. I've more regard for Hunter and his team than Baker and Board. Let's see how it pans out.

[winner69]

From today's presentation...

"All business divisions tracking ahead of budget and ahead of FY19 at end of Q1"

Don't forget Q119 was pretty disappointing and weak

[sb9]

Don't forget Q119 was pretty disappointing and weak

Yes, got that. And also note its not just ahead of FY19, but also ahead of Budget. Two different parameters to compare against.

Sounds like positive start for FY20.

[sb9]

From today's NBR online behind paywall (pretty much everything is)...
Turners plot growth with refreshed business plan (https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/turners-plot-growth-refreshed-business-plan)

[Joshuatree]

A teaser thanks, anyone got a summary? TRA and PAZ the only stocks in my portfolio not in the red atp. Only 9000 sold maybe to the buyback.

[Balance]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/338682/304798.pdf

Another 4m shares to sell by Milford.

Guess TRA's management has failed to convince Milford that there are wonderful news in the offing?

[percy]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/338682/304798.pdf

Another 4m shares to sell by Milford.

Guess TRA's management has failed to convince Milford that there are wonderful news in the offing?

Looks as though Milford are going to be happy sellers for some time, as the buy back is only for 1.834mil shares.

[Balance]

Looks as though Milford are going to be happy sellers for some time, as the buy back is only for 1.834mil shares.

You would think that TRA should just let the sp drift down to $2 before buying off Milford, now that it is soooooo obvious that Milford has had enough of TRA's strategic confusion?

Why use the company's funds to bail out one shareholder unless?

[percy]

You would think that TRA should just let the sp drift down to $2 before buying off Milford, now that it is soooooo obvious that Milford has had enough of TRA's strategic confusion?

Why use the company's funds to bail out one shareholder unless?

Agreed.
Under $2 would be fun.
The share buy back is avaliable for any share holder who wants to sell.It is on market,so anyone who wants to sell better get on with it,before Milford run the price even lower..

[Balance]

Agreed.
Under $2 would be fun.
The share buy back is avaliable for any share holder who wants to sell.It is on market,so anyone who wants to sell better get on with it,before Milford run the price even lower..

Now, don't you go scaring away the other buyers who are on the sideline hoping to pick up a few 'cheap' and getting cheaper (since 2017) shares!

[Ggcc]

Larger than normal turnover here and price holding. The share buyback is doing its thing, but it would be good to see the share price heading much higher with this sort of turnover

[Baa_Baa]

Larger than normal turnover here and price holding. The share buyback is doing its thing, but it would be good to see the share price heading much higher with this sort of turnover

You may be observing a managed exit / sell die to a managed buyer.

[percy]

From today's NBR online behind paywall (pretty much everything is)...
Turners plot growth with refreshed business plan (https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/turners-plot-growth-refreshed-business-plan)

Went to Turners Roadshow presentation this evening.
Todd Hunter and Aaron Saunders,told us where Turners are,where they want to be,and how they intend to get there.
They are trading well.
Turners are back up to "very strong conviction".

[Baa_Baa]

Went to Turners Roadshow presentation this evening.
Todd Hunter and Aaron Saunders,told us where Turners are,where they want to be,and how they intend to get there.
They are trading well.
Turners are back up to "very strong conviction".

What’s the story behind their investment in CL8?

[percy]

What’s the story behind their investment in CL8?

Vehicle ownership worldwide is changing.Rise of subscription style services for car ownership and demand of flexible solutions.
Turners may have Carly up and running by the end this year.
NBR last Friday had an article about it.

ps.Came away from tonight's presentation a "born again" much happier shareholder.

[iceman]

Vehicle ownership worldwide is changing.Rise of subscription style services for car ownership and demand of flexible solutions.
Turners may have Carly up and running by the end this year.
NBR last Friday had an article about it.

ps.Came away from tonight's presentation a "born again" much happier shareholder.

Holy moley. Didn´t think that was necessary :-)

[Balance]

Vehicle ownership worldwide is changing.Rise of subscription style services for car ownership and demand of flexible solutions.
Turners may have Carly up and running by the end this year.
NBR last Friday had an article about it.

ps.Came away from tonight's presentation a "born again" much happier shareholder.

Perfect timing then as Milford will be happy to shower 'cheap' shares!

[percy]

Holy moley. Didn´t think that was necessary :-)

Yes and re took my vows..!!
Sometime ago there was discussion about the small temporary Wellington City site.
Holds 55 cars and last month sold 47....Incredible.
Turners also openned a New Branch in New Plymouth.
Holds 155 cars.Last month without any advertising they sold 135 cars.Again incredible.Just shows the nationwide strength of Turners brand.
Whangarei.Relocated site.3 months to June 85% increase in operating profit.Yet again incredible.

[percy]

Perfect timing then as Milford will be happy to shower 'cheap' shares!

Even happier will be the savvy investors who take them off Milford's hands.

[winner69]

Yes and re took my vows..!!
Sometime ago there was discussion about the small temporary Wellington City site.
Holds 55 cars and last month sold 47....Incredible.
Turners also openned a New Branch in New Plymouth.
Holds 155 cars.Last month without any advertising they sold 135 cars.Again incredible.Just shows the nationwide strength of Turners brand.
Whangarei.Relocated site.3 months to June 85% increase in operating profit.Yet again incredible.

Website says there’s 72 cars at Wellington ...always about 70 odd

Spose clever marketing