TRA - Turners Automotive Group [previously TNR - Turners Limited]

[Enumerate]

Isn't it quite clear that St Lawrence are going to use DPC as a vehicle to back door list?

Further, isn't it quite clear that DPC's own money will be used to effect this transaction?

Things are not quite lined up, yet. BK needs to talk down the price of DPC a bit more. Perhaps some of the larger DPC holders need to be brought to heel.

You can be assured that the small, retail DPC holder will not see the full enjoyment of the assets that they currently own.

Business, as usual, in New Zealand. Dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

[Hoop]

VIK & BK were excluded from the sale process. So BK got an investment advisor working for IRG which is owned by VIK to buy it. VIK then bought it off the advisor.

The circus continues!!!!

dsurf... you are close to being spot on, except the advisor was not a frontman according to BK. Quote BK".....While it looks like Rogers was acting as a front man for Viking that isn't the case.."
From the Good Returns weekly wrap article (http://www.goodreturns.co.nz/article/976494023.html)



Result at half time BK 500, Rogers 1500, DPC/STL 500, DPC shareholders 0

Time for Commerce Commission to have a look into DPC / STL methinks.

If I was a shareholder I would be sending an email to the CC about now.

[Steve]

The DPC shareprice could be seeing new lows next week by the looks of it...

[Dr_Who]

Thats funny. When BK was running DPC, the Directbroking business was making a lost and they had to get rid of it. What is different this time round.

I agree with you Hoop. The CC should have a closer look at these smoke bombs.

[Billy Boy]

Ok todays ann
We have a shuffel whats the verdict ???
I dont know of them so cant comment, but am interested
in other comments.
BB

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Billy Boy Man that has been buying lots of shares now runs the company

[Dr_Who]

It is a breath of fresh air. I like both of these guys from the background described. Anything is better than Andrew Walker.

The fact that DPC can get these two reputable people on board tells me DPC will not go under. In fact, Brynes not only steering the boat but also bought shares in the boat is a welcome sight. There is hope yet for DPC.

This is indeed very good news. :)

I see VIK continues to sell while talking trash about DPC... LOL. VIK still holds 1.3 million shares. I may even top up more shares once I see DPC bottoming out.

[Billy Boy]

Billy Boy Man that has been buying lots of shares now runs the company
:D:D
Not lots ... just some ;)
_________________________________________

Yep DOC
I be watching as well.
DPC is one of my gambles.
I dont know why !! But for some reason this one feels right.
Maybe I'll have to eat my words.... well we will see !!
BB

[Steve]

Ok todays ann
We have a shuffel whats the verdict ???
I dont know of them so cant comment, but am interested
in other comments.
BB

The shareprice showed a distinct lack of interest...

[BlackPeter]

The shareprice showed a distinct lack of interest...

True - however the depth (bids vs asks) has somewhat changed. Huge number of bids @35 - not too far from the current price. Only small number and small parcels of shares on offer. SP might be close to bottoming out.

[Dr_Who]

The shareprice showed a distinct lack of interest...

The market knows VIK still have 1.3m shares to sell. Once that goes, DPC will bounce.

Interesting to find over 1m shares on leverage equities account. Now why would anyone wants to leverage this very risky stock with potential margin calls? Something is cooking in the background.

It strikes me as sad that BK continues to talk crap about DPC while still selling down its holdings. Either he has a brilliant strategy to T/O DPC or he has lost the plot.

disc: DPC holder

[Steve]

The market knows VIK still have 1.3m shares to sell. Once that goes, DPC will bounce.

Why doesn't VIK just sell their remaining DPC shares and get on with life? :confused:

[Dr_Who]

Why doesn't VIK just sell their remaining DPC shares and get on with life? :confused:

Dont know, maybe DPC is his life and he cant let go. :confused:

[BlackPeter]

actually, they brought BK yesterday on National Radio. He commented on the recent changes at DPC. To me he sounded rather positive. Maybe he changed his mind and doesn't wants to talk the only remaining assets down VIK still holds (well, give or take Equity)?

[James Bond]

I have been watching DPC/Viking closely for some time, and my impression is that VIK stopped selling quite some time ago. The Byrnes appointment is logical, the other guy has no finance company experience, DPC is no investment bank which is a totally different animal. In fact the only real job that can find that he has had is running a restuarant on Aucklands waterfront. I also note that the majority of Vik assets are in the unlisted IRG/Equity which combined could make a great investment. One being a research based investment house the other a retail investment shop with little research. Sounds like a logical strategy to me. BK at least seems to have a strategy in a sector he knows well, on the otherhand DPC has no strateg, but hopefully Byrnes will change that.:)

[dsurf]

I have been watching DPC/Viking closely for some time, and my impression is that VIK stopped selling quite some time ago. The Byrnes appointment is logical, the other guy has no finance company experience, DPC is no investment bank which is a totally different animal. In fact the only real job that can find that he has had is running a restuarant on Aucklands waterfront. I also note that the majority of Vik assets are in the unlisted IRG/Equity which combined could make a great investment. One being a research based investment house the other a retail investment shop with little research. Sounds like a logical strategy to me. BK at least seems to have a strategy in a sector he knows well, on the otherhand DPC has no strateg, but hopefully Byrnes will change that.:)

Mr Bond - you obviously hold a lot of VIK assets and either work for VIK or have a large holding as I can see no other way that you can say so gleefully that "the majority of Vik assets are in the unlisted IRG/Equity which combined could make a great investment." We all know the reason why the majority of assets are there - all the other assets ie DPC / BIO have lost a huge amount of value. The other assets, FTB were taken over. I am unable to trust anything that comes from VIK because the mantra of DYOR is impossible since they do not release NTA etc in a timely or relevent manner, preferring to hide behind the wild west governance offered by the AX market. Be careful because you need inside knowledge or enough funds to move the pitiful liquidity offered in order to prosper in that shark infested pool.

Could DPC be about the rebound?????? up to 50 / 60c

[Dr_Who]

I have been watching DPC/Viking closely for some time, and my impression is that VIK stopped selling quite some time ago. The Byrnes appointment is logical, the other guy has no finance company experience, DPC is no investment bank which is a totally different animal. In fact the only real job that can find that he has had is running a restuarant on Aucklands waterfront. I also note that the majority of Vik assets are in the unlisted IRG/Equity which combined could make a great investment. One being a research based investment house the other a retail investment shop with little research. Sounds like a logical strategy to me. BK at least seems to have a strategy in a sector he knows well, on the otherhand DPC has no strateg, but hopefully Byrnes will change that.:)

You are just full of it. I suggest you go and look at the latest top 40 shareholders list. It has VIK still selling down. In fact VIK recently 130k in DPC.

Are you a VIK shareholder and talking your own book? VIK's only strategy is to invest in companies that go under and/or talk down a company sp and sell at a lost. I would hate to be a VIK shareholder.

[James Bond]

DSurf, its easy to work out what the approx cost values of the unlisted assets. Any one who owns a calculator and reads the Newspaper can add the purcase price of IRG 2.5 million & The Equity Purchase price 1.5 million to know the that adds 4 Million. From Memory VIK then sold part of IRG to the NSX for 1 mill, leaving a cost of approximately 3 miilion. Common knowledge not inside info, all stated in the NBR/NZ Herald. By the way i judge shares by what the company are doing, not what the company says they are doing. We all have to ignore the rants of people like BK, and judge them by thier actions. In BK's case the ICP-BIO issue cannot and will not be forgotten,, He will have to put significant runs on the board until anyone in the marketplace will trust him, if ever. What will be of interest is what approach BK takes from here. Hopefully he will stick to finance realted companies, something he knows very well, and arguably one of the best operators around. DPC performed very well for well over a decade under his guidance, so he does have some skills.
For the record, I own both VIK and DPC shares and would buy more VIk at sub 10 cents based upon simple maths and an understanding of the finance industry. I recently bought more DPC but will wait to see Paul Byrnes strategy before committing more capital. Both have excellent potential in the stressed enviroment, where winners will win and losers will die.

[Dr_Who]

I know - the cleaner!

You know Bud Fox?? :D

[Steve]

Hmm ... We know there are write-offs coming ... who'd be buying before the ann result in the next few days? The brave? The foolish? The tea lady? I know - the cleaner!

The fact that they announced on 1st May that the 31 March 2008 result will be hit by increased provisioning suggests that either the Auditors made them do it or they are behind the 8-ball with respect to their internal reporting structures...

[COLIN]

Cunning to announce at the last possible moment, just after market closure, on the very last day necessary to meet NZX requirements, and before a long weekend, hoping to minimise scrutiny and reaction, but it all seems rather pathetic.
It does seem rather ironic, though, that they have "had to" announce such a relatively large write-down on their investment in St. Laurence Ltd. on the very same day that St Laurence Property & Finance Ltd., (St. Laurence's major subsidiary) announces a significant increase in net profit. DPC must have paid a handsome premium for their 25% share of St. Laurence.

[Steve]

Cunning to announce at the last possible moment, just after market closure, on the very last day necessary to meet NZX requirements, and before a long weekend, hoping to minimise scrutiny and reaction, but it all seems rather pathetic.
It does seem rather ironic, though, that they have "had to" announce such a relatively large write-down on their investment in St. Laurence Ltd. on the very same day that St Laurence Property & Finance Ltd., (St. Laurence's major subsidiary) announces a significant increase in net profit. DPC must have paid a handsome premium for their 25% share of St. Laurence.

And this result doesn't take into account the the losses on sale of the assets disposed of subsequent to balance date.

Also note that cash reserves down from $30m to $28m, so have the outflows started trickling?

[Hoop]

Cunning to announce at the last possible moment, just after market closure, on the very last day necessary to meet NZX requirements, and before a long weekend, hoping to minimise scrutiny and reaction, but it all seems rather pathetic.
It does seem rather ironic, though, that they have "had to" announce such a relatively large write-down on their investment in St. Laurence Ltd. on the very same day that St Laurence Property & Finance Ltd., (St. Laurence's major subsidiary) announces a significant increase in net profit. DPC must have paid a handsome premium for their 25% share of St. Laurence.

Excessive writedowns on an unlisted equity..Hmmmm..maybe another cunning plan being hatched.. to soften up the shareholders before a management takeover attempt?...

Disc: Hoop's spectulation post without any facts.....just a post prompted by strange rodent type smells and sour tastes:p

[Dr_Who]

Something really smells and it is pissing me off big time!! As a shareholder, I am not happy at all.

[Nitaa]

At least they are getting into a business line that will see rapid growth over the next few years....Debt Collection.

If the true Net tangable assets equate to over $1.00 per then the current vale is a steal. Clearly all is not clear.

[James Bond]

The nett cash position isnt much use when the reinvestment rate is around 20%, clearly this will be used to fund redemptions. If one or two of the big loans are not repaid on time, they will have a big problem. The issue is not about NTA it is whether they can repay debenture investors on time when due.

[Enumerate]

Dorchester Pacific undershoots forecasts

http://www.findata.co.nz/News/1009/Dorchester_Pacific_undershoots_forecasts.htm

St Laurence Property Finance year net profit up 22 pct

http://www.findata.co.nz/News/1004/St_Laurence_Property_Finance_year_net_profit_up_22 _pct.htm

A plan so cunning, you can put a tail on it and call it a weasel?

Maybe, but weasels are certainly involved in this cunning plan!

If you want a "vulture" play in the finance sector - I think you should consider the following:

MFNHA.ASX - trading at A$0.24, mark to market NTA A$0.40, face value north of $0.60.

Losses due to the leverage deal mark to market terms forcing liquidity events have probably been stopped due to the latest portfolio refinancing. Good US Corp bond to be held to maturity. Possible may resume interest payments in 4-5 years - meanwhile all interest and lloan repayments going to repay the leverage facility. It is making money - just not distributing, yet.

A research "deep dive" may indicate that you could turn A$0.24 into A$0.83, in the best scenario, over 5 years.

FTN.NZX are the NZ version - very thin liquidity, though.

[James Bond]

Enumerate, The Fortress notes, is one of the wonderful back tested products created by the SMART Boys at Macquarie. In brief, the smart boys, clearly never envisaged what has transpired over the last 12 months. Hence, the value Macquarie current say it is woth is questionable to say the least. You can hold maturity paper till maturity that does not guarantee repayment. The majority of US corporate bond maturity mechanisms are rollover. That wont help Fortress. As I say, they smart boys at Macquarie got it wrong when they manufactured this product, so what is to say they are now right?
To put it into perspective, if maquarie, thought that there was no problem with thi investment they would have paid the poor old investor out to protect the good name of Macquarie!! They didn't, because these things are worthless and the only reason Macquarie keep them going is their Management Fee. They dont call Macquarie "The Millionaires Factory" for nothing!!!

[lewinsky]

They forecast a profit of $6 million six months ago and get an actual result of a loss of $18 million. Just a wee bit out on the forecasting there lads. A bit like throwing a dart at a dart board and hitting the neighbours cat two doors down.
Walker said the STL deal was the best deal he has done! Hell I'd hate to see the others.
I am surprised they haven't announced a dividend as they have $28 million in funds.
The AGM should be interesting if they are still around then.
I wonder where they expect to get new sources of funding?

[Nitaa]

They forecast a profit of $6 million six months ago and get an actual result of a loss of $18 million. Just a wee bit out on the forecasting there lads. A bit like throwing a dart at a dart board and hitting the neighbours cat two doors down.
Walker said the STL deal was the best deal he has done! Hell I'd hate to see the others.
I am surprised they haven't announced a dividend as they have $28 million in funds.
The AGM should be interesting if they are still around then.
I wonder where they expect to get new sources of funding?Any time frame son how long DPC will be around?

Any thoughts on what BK intends to do? Either way, the average investor will get killed in this.

[Enumerate]

They didn't, because these things are worthless and the only reason Macquarie keep them going is their Management Fee.

You are right in your observations about one thing - the fact that the trust bears the "Macquarie" name means that there is a "little bit of magic" sprinkled on the units ...

- the fact that the fund was saved by the refinancing of the leverage deal is an example of this "magic"

The units are far from valueless. They are built on good corporate loans. Yes, it is a leverage model that amplifies the yield, or loss - but the fact remains that NONE of the underlying loans have defaulted.

These are good loans - having to be sold into a bad market due to the mark to market liquidity terms of the prior leverage agreement. Now, part of that financing model is no longer mark to market - there will be no necessity to sell good loans before maturity.

I have looked at DPC.NZX as a "vulture" play.

In my personal view MFNHA.ASX or FTNFA.NZX (if you can get them) offer substantially more reward for significantly less risk.

If you have any mates with FTNFA's - who consider them worthless - I'd be happy to take 'em off their hands for a modest price ...

In my view, "the smartest guys in the room" now work for me. I've got them at work manufacturing a millionaire ... in their factory.

[COLIN]

You are right in your observations about one thing - the fact that the trust bears the "Macquarie" name means that there is a "little bit of magic" sprinkled on the units ...

- the fact that the fund was saved by the refinancing of the leverage deal is an example of this "magic"

The units are far from valueless. They are built on good corporate loans. Yes, it is a leverage model that amplifies the yield, or loss - but the fact remains that NONE of the underlying loans have defaulted.

These are good loans - having to be sold into a bad market due to the mark to market liquidity terms of the prior leverage agreement. Now, part of that financing model is no longer mark to market - there will be no necessity to sell good loans before maturity.

I have looked at DPC.NZX as a "vulture" play.

In my personal view MFNHA.ASX or FTNFA.NZX (if you can get them) offer substantially more reward for significantly less risk.

If you have any mates with FTNFA's - who consider them worthless - I'd be happy to take 'em off their hands for a modest price ...

In my view, "the smartest guys in the room" now work for me. I've got them at work manufacturing a millionaire ... in their factory.
Enumerate: I'm with you - you're on the button, on this one. An opportunity well spotted. I picked up a few FTNFA at just 10 cents a few weeks ago (or was it 10.5c) and there are a couple of current bidders at 20/21c but sellers are not being tempted (apart from some optimist at 70c).
NAV (latest 40c) will climb steadily from here, risk has been largely purged, and my 10 cents will show a return that will be hard to beat - apart from energy specs.
I, too, would like some more - provided the price is "right" - but I don't fancy my chances with you also hot on the trail!
Happy hunting.

[Enumerate]

I picked up a few FTNFA at just 10 cents a few weeks ago (or was it 10.5c) and there are a couple of current bidders at 20/21c but sellers are not being tempted (apart from some optimist at 70c).

Well done! Clearly, you picked the absolute bottom. I think you may end up in a position to collect the value of your capital, in interest payments, per year!

[Enumerate]

A "Vulture" play? ... Methinks even vultures would be wary of this rancid bit of meat. :)


I think some may be attracted to the recovery potential. I cannot help thinking that DPC is being characterised as the finest tenderised "road kill" whereas St Lawrence is being puffed and plumped as the white knight.

[BlackPeter]

I think some may be attracted to the recovery potential. I cannot help thinking that DPC is being characterised as the finest tenderised "road kill" whereas St Lawrence is being puffed and plumped as the white knight.

I agree - its sort of strange to see how this share is talked down. Admittedly - neither the last CEO nor the current board seemed to have had a good feeling for timing (or judgement), but DPC still have an asset backing of $1,12 and Walker did walk (excuse the pun).

DPC actually does own 25% of St Laurence. Assuming that St Laurence is in the meantime a significant part of their assets - and doing well (considering other finance companies) - how come that the shares are traded with such a huge discount? Just bought some more - DYOR.

[moimoi]

I agree - its sort of strange to see how this share is talked down. Admittedly - neither the last CEO nor the current board seemed to have had a good feeling for timing (or judgement), but DPC still have an asset backing of $1,12 and Walker did walk (excuse the pun).

DPC actually does own 25% of St Laurence. Assuming that St Laurence is in the meantime a significant part of their assets - and doing well (considering other finance companies) - how come that the shares are traded with such a huge discount? Just bought some more - DYOR.

BP...a quick glance at last weeks announcement provides clues...

They have burned over $2mill cash in a month. (now 28.2mill at 30/5/08)

Keep that up for 10 months and what do you have.?

They are currently enjoying a reinvestment rate of 20%!!.

Effectively mum n dad debenture holders are frantically(and rightly so) demanding their funds back at maturity instead of rolling them over.

A number of receivers of finance companies have recently publicly indicated that recoveries on property related loans are exceptionally unlikely to meet expectations.

It is also awfully difficult to finance anything with a hint of "development" currently due to the "credit crunch". So if you can't sell it, and you can't refinance it, then maybe, just maybe, ones receivables due to be collected within the next year of $183mill might look a little shaky.??

With debenture maturities due within the next year of $156mill (of which as stated only 20% are being renewed) and you have a slightly ill looking puppy...

not for me bro..

cheers
Moi

[Dr_Who]

I am still scratching my head why Brynes (accounting background) has been buying DPC shares and recently accepted the position to run the company?

I dont think someone of his background would take a position like this if he knows it is a sinking ship.

[Steve]

BP...a quick glance at last weeks announcement provides clues...

They have burned over $2mill cash in a month. (now 28.2mill at 30/5/08)

Keep that up for 10 months and what do you have.?

They are currently enjoying a reinvestment rate of 20%!!.

Effectively mum n dad debenture holders are frantically(and rightly so) demanding their funds back at maturity instead of rolling them over.

A number of receivers of finance companies have recently publicly indicated that recoveries on property related loans are exceptionally unlikely to meet expectations.

It is also awfully difficult to finance anything with a hint of "development" currently due to the "credit crunch". So if you can't sell it, and you can't refinance it, then maybe, just maybe, ones receivables due to be collected within the next year of $183mill might look a little shaky.??

With debenture maturities due within the next year of $156mill (of which as stated only 20% are being renewed) and you have a slightly ill looking puppy...

not for me bro..

cheers
Moi

At this point, taking a punt on DPC is pretty much taking a spreculative punt on those borrowers and their ability to repay.

There is not much of a margin for default once you take into account the overheads...

[BlackPeter]

todays announcement to NZX:
------
REL: 0934 HRS Dorchester Pacific Limited

MEETING: DPC: Annual meeting 2008 and director nominations

Dorchester Pacific Limited will be holding its Annual Shareholders Meeting in
the Guineas 1 Room, Ellerslie Event Centre, 80-100 Ascot Avenue, Greenlane,
Auckland on Thursday 21 August 2008 commencing at 2pm.

For the purposes of NZX Listing Rule 3.3.2, Dorchester advises that the
closing date for director nominations is Monday 30 June 2008. All nominations must be received by 4.00 pm on the closing date.

Nominations may only be made by a shareholder entitled to attend and vote at the Annual Meeting, and must be accompanied by the consent in writing of the nominated person.
----- (end of announcement) -----

Looking for a director with foresight, good judgement and most important with the shareholders interest in mind. Anybody with experience out there who wants to take on the challenge? Happy to support any reasonable contender ...

[Nitaa]

I have been kept quite about dpc of late...anyway... when does the next announcement of bad news arrive or will shareholders have to wait until the agm?

[COLIN]

I have been kept quite about dpc of late...anyway... when does the next announcement of bad news arrive or will shareholders have to wait until the agm?

I doubt if they're worth wasting time on. Quite apart from their own particular issues the finance sector in general is not the area to be in these days (with just the odd exception, e.g. PGC.)
Energy, farm production, healthcare and selective exporters are the areas to concentrate on.
I remember a piece of sage advice I absorbed a few years ago - "concentration on asset class allocation, rather than individual stock selection, will generally provide better portfolio returns in the long run." I believe that still holds true.

[Steve]

Like DFH, DPC also gave an 'ALL CLEAR' a couple of weeks ago with their Continuous Disclosure Statement.

I wonder if there is going to be another 'SHOCK' announcement soon...

[BlackPeter]

Like DFH, DPC also gave an 'ALL CLEAR' a couple of weeks ago with their Continuous Disclosure Statement.

I wonder if there is going to be another 'SHOCK' announcement soon...

Steve, do you have any reason to assume DPC might be in a similar situation?

[Steve]

Steve, do you have any reason to assume DPC might be in a similar situation?

Nothing other than the fact that DPC gave the same assurances as DFH did only a couple of weeks ago...

[Nitaa]

Steve, do you have any reason to assume DPC might be in a similar situation?I mentioned a couple of months ago that dpc is in trouble and may get into serious trouble. The first comment of getting into trouble is no surrpise as almost all finance companies are facing the wind at this present moment. Whether they weather the storm is another matter.

There Queenstown portfolio must be taking a beating and cash deposits must have all but dried up. Does anyone know of any person who has investment more than $1 into dpc current accounts, reverserse mortages, insurances this year? IMO, cash flow will become a problem. The good news is there will likely be a white knight come along and save the company but not nseesarily the investors.

disc. the above are stricktly my opinion based on my assumptions and also based on reliable source a a couple of months ago. period

[Jess9]

Is DB still using this crowd for their on call accounts?

[Jess9]

All good. Per DB site: "Direct Broking Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of ANZ National Bank Limited and is the manager and issuer of the Direct Broking Call Account."

Thanks J9 ; )

[Ears]

Could Ace Payroll be the White Knight?

Ace owners, the Eriksens, appeared on the register recently with a million shares. They have just added to that with another 113,000.

Is it just a coincidence that 3rd Ace shareholder, Chartered Accountant, Peta Walker, is also a shareholder of Auguste Holdings? (Maybe a nominee in both).

Walker is also in a number of Companies with Aeneas O'Sullivan. Presumably in her role as partner of Berry and Walker, Chartered Accountants.

Or do the Eriksens just have an eye for a good investment?

[Steve]

Ears to the ground and a good bit of detective work too! Something interesting to throw in to the mix...

[Hoop]

St Laurence is having a few problems now.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10518077


Byrnes is probably thinking about now that his cheap DPC shares are now looking rather expensive.

[Hoop]

Still no reaction to the share price yet.

No announcement to the market:(:(

This is not good:(...the media prints it before the NZX gets the announcement...it was breaking news at 12.45pm

[Dr_Who]

WTF is this? A mickey mouse operation? The papers gets it before an annoucement???? This information is material and can affect the sp. Also it seems a few people already knew the info and sold down prior to the news release!!!!!!

What a Fking joke!:mad:

The people behind St Laurance, Bridgecorp and DPC can kiss my ass next time they want to raise funds. I will remember their names.

[Corporate]

He told NZPA the company was not in default but was at risk of default as nearly all its loan book was in arrears and its reinvestment rate had plummeted into the teens from around 64 per cent before March..

Jesus! nearly all it's loan book is in arrears. Why would anyone put ANY money into a finance company.

[Corporate]

If you could short every listed finance company, you could make a packet. I am pretty inexperience, but is this actually possible?

[Lizard]

On the "credit where credit is due" side, I will note that I have already been rung by St Laurence to say that my deposit of last week has been placed into a trust account. They wanted confirmation of the bank account to refund it to. It seems they have been preparing for this announcement for some days.

[Toddy]

Jesus! nearly all it's loan book is in arrears. Why would anyone put ANY money into a finance company.

And the loans that were not in arrears were the 'related party' loans. i.e Peter pays Paul who then pays Peter to pay Paul etc

Peter and Paul both have flash houses and boats in Auckland.

[Corporate]

On the "credit where credit is due" side, I will note that I have already been rung by St Laurence to say that my deposit of last week has been placed into a trust account. They wanted confirmation of the bank account to refund it to. It seems they have been preparing for this announcement for some days.

WHy were you placing a deposit with them?

[Hoop]

Still no reaction to the share price yet.

No announcement to the market:(:(

This is not good:(...the media prints it before the NZX gets the announcement...it was breaking news at 12.45pm

:o:oSorry NZX it was on the page before at 11.59am as was NAP at 12.00noon. However DPC was slow to announce it (5.00pm) at the close.

[Lizard]

WHy were you placing a deposit with them?

Because I am an idiot I presume? :)

[Corporate]

Because I am an idiot I presume? :)

No. I was just interested why you would?

[tim23]

I guess its a fair question these days!

[Steve]

Chairman of Dorchester, Mr Barry Graham said: "The board of DorchesterPacific intends to undertake an immediate review of the potential impact of these decisions on the company's investment in St Laurence".

I wonder what due diligence was done at the time their investment was made?

[Grimy]

On the "credit where credit is due" side, I will note that I have already been rung by St Laurence to say that my deposit of last week has been placed into a trust account. They wanted confirmation of the bank account to refund it to. It seems they have been preparing for this announcement for some days.

Before getting too hard on St Laurence, how refreshing the above is compared to the horror stories of the past couple of years, where companies have been taking in money when they know they are in trouble, and not returning money received up to (and even after) they've fallen over.

[Toddy]

Before getting too hard on St Laurence, how refreshing the above is compared to the horror stories of the past couple of years, where companies have been taking in money when they know they are in trouble, and not returning money received up to (and even after) they've fallen over.

Grimy

Refreshing, maybe. But it probably has more to do with the criminal charges laid over the last few days against the Bridgecorp Directors.

[Steve]

Grimy

Refreshing, maybe. But it probably has more to do with the criminal charges laid over the last few days against the Bridgecorp Directors.

How cynical!... ;)

[Nitaa]

DPC...will there be an agm?.... not looking like it... Personally i think its almost beyond their control apart from someone investor colecting the scaps at the end. Who will that be?

Next lot of bad news within 2 weeks

SP can only go down short term

[Dr_Who]

Some of us are hovering ... Belgie the Vulture.

Hey Belg. Can I ask why you are so confident DPC will survive that you are buying it at these levels? I am a shareholder of DPC and this is the only freaking DOG I have in my portfolio. I am just wondering if I should hold or buy more at these levels.

[dsurf]

Hey Belg. Can I ask why you are so confident DPC will survive that you are buying it at these levels? I am a shareholder of DPC and this is the only freaking DOG I have in my portfolio. I am just wondering if I should hold or buy more at these levels.

Trust the chart & wait for it to turn (if ever - maybe in 1c to 5c range)

[Ears]

"DPC...will there be an agm?.... not looking like it... Personally i think its almost beyond their control apart from someone investor colecting the scaps at the end. Who will that be?"


You did not comment on my last post re Ace Payroll.

Could it be them?

[COLIN]

Some of us are hovering ... Belgie the Vulture.

A dangerous activity - remember FTX!

[Nitaa]

Some of us are hovering ... Belgie the Vulture.
Yes anything can happen but it would be p[ure speculation. Remember Feltex? The problem is, someon is likely to mop this up but by the time you any of us realise it will be too late.

[Nitaa]

Ears...If you know something then fine.. I have no comment on Ace. What i do know is others were buying the dpc people buy what was there motive? Again only specualtion which i cannt answer bujt only hAVE AN OPINION.

[Hoop]

Some of us are hovering ... Belgie the Vulture.
I was Hoop the vulture with BIO....got food poisoning:p

[etrader]

Announcement out very soon in regard to impact of lending, is it a day for them ?

[shasta]

Announcement out very soon in regard to impact of lending, is it a day for them ?

Dorchester to review impact of St Laurence exit

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10518317

[etrader]

http://www.directbroking.co.nz/directtrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=1977146

[Dr_Who]

Debenture Stock $168m against total asset of $212m.
Cash $18m in bank
$8m in sub notes
Only $8 is to property lending

hmmmm........

I need advice on this one from someone who knows how to value this DOG.

[shasta]

Debenture Stock $168m against total asset of $212m.
Cash $18m in bank
$8m in sub notes
Only $8 is to property lending

hmmmm........

I need advice on this one from someone who knows how to value this DOG.

I'd be leaving this flea ridden mutt alone Dr Who.

Or at least wait until any such recovery, the whole sector is a mess...

Finance options running out for developers


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10518183

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10518182

[tim23]

Debenture Stock $168m against total asset of $212m.
Cash $18m in bank
$8m in sub notes
Only $8 is to property lending

hmmmm........

I need advice on this one from someone who knows how to value this DOG.


** The market values it at $7,519,855 **

[Ears]

Tim

No, property lending is approx 50% of the $212m. (Not shown there)!

[tim23]

Meaning what? Previous post referred to value of company thats what the market does each day and today it didn't value DPC at much atall.

[Ears]

Tim


You said "only$8 is to property lending"????????? I said no!


Wasn't talking about mkt cap!!!!

[tim23]

Ears - most of my listing was pasted from Dr Whos post (see above), my reply simply referred to the market cap at close of business today.

[Ears]

I have no doubt shareprice will get hammered tomorrow, yet nta over $1 compared to DFH's 21cents. Strife for DPC could have been months away.
$18 m cash.

It should be priced well above DFH's 12 to 15 cents. Hammering then a bounce??

[moimoi]

Ears...i would suggest the NTA is no where near $1....

St Laurence today admitted..."virtually all of St Laurence's loans were not performing"

The others left will not be immune.!!

[lewinsky]

"Clearly, taking proactive measures in the current economic environment is
the best way to ensure full return of investors' funds and to preserve value
for stakeholders."

I fell off my chair when I read this last sentence from the Chairman. 23 competitors have either failed or delayed repaying investors and they have proactively done nothing over the last 2 years other than make stupid profit forecasts(misinforming the market? ) and taken potshots at the ex MD who they were happy to coat tail (or lick his a***se) while they were directors and BK was MD.
The only proactive measures they have taken is to sit on their hands and hope the problem
would go away.
Maybe Byrnes will see this an opportunity to buy some more shares and average down.
The ex CEO said the deal with St Laurence was the best he had done. I'd hate to see some of his not so good deals.
Who sang" Bring in the Clowns"?

LEW

[Steve]

I'm surprised that BK hasn't released a 'gem' of a comment yet... :rolleyes:

[Ears]

BK can hardly comment, after his gem purchase...ICP BIO!


How good is Byrnes? A Director, has all the info, & still buys shares!

[moimoi]

and Lewinsky the tragedy of a moratorium is that effectively mum and dad debenture holders are now the companies bank....and wearing all the risk.

Mr show pony developer is probably laughing heartily as what was previously a 6 month loan term is about to be extended for 2 years.

moi.

[Nitaa]

Dorchester latest to throw in towel
Page 1 of 2 View as a single page 5:00AM Thursday June 26, 2008
By Adam Bennett



Finance companies in freefall
Adam Bennett: Failures do nothing for savings - or our homes
More prosecutions in the pipeline
The ongoing finance company meltdown gathered pace yesterday as yet another property-focused lender, Dorchester Pacific Finance, threw in the towel, saying it would ask investors to approve a "deferred repayment plan".

Dorchester, which is listed on the sharemarket, is now the 24th finance company in two years to break down and the third in less than a week.

With Dorchester's $176 million, investors' funds tied up in failed or stricken firms now total almost $2.8 billion. That total rose by $666 million in the past week alone.

Following a board meeting yesterday, Dorchester's chairman, Barry Graham, said his company would withdraw its prospectus, effectively ending efforts to raise money from the public, and "will seek the approval of debenture-holders and note-holders to a deferred repayment plan, but with continued interest payments".

Dorchester's move is similar that announced on Tuesday by St Laurence, the Wellington finance company in which it holds a 25 per cent stake.

Graham gave the same reasons cited by St Laurence boss Kevin Podmore, and by Dominion Finance's chief executive, Paul Cropp, when his company hit the wall last week.

"As a result of the rapid decline in the property finance market and a continuing fall in reinvestment rates the board has formed the view that there is now a risk of a cash-flow shortfall arising in future months."

Mr Graham said a deferred repayment plan should give the company time to realise property loan positions "in an orderly way and ensure full repayment to debenture-holders and note-holders".

Dorchester owes $168 million to debenture stock investors and $8 million to subordinated note-holders.

It has total assets of $212 million, including $18 million in cash.

While Dorchester's repayment plan still requires approval from the company's trustees and then from investors, repayments of maturing debentures and notes will be suspended from today. Financial adviser and industry commentator Chris Lee believes the deferred payment plan announced by Dorchester and a similar plan from St Laurence demonstrates an "honourable" approach.

Yesterday, he contrasted this approach with the desperate last-minute scramble for cash by some of the failed companies and their subsequent breach of their "trust deeds", which are intended to protect investors.

"The good news is that Dorchester is in a position, like St Laurence, to be proactive.

"These companies have acted before they have to. Dorchester has cash in the bank."

FINANCE FIRMS CONTINUE TO WOBBLE AND STUMBLE

Dorchester Pacific this week became the 24th finance company to strike difficulties in the past two years. Investors' cash totals almost $2.8 billion.

[Nitaa]

BK can hardly comment, after his gem purchase...ICP BIO!


How good is Byrnes? A Director, has all the info, & still buys shares!My opinion on that was to give potential and current investors a false hope. Sorry to say.. dpc was gone months ago hen they were saying they had 30m plus in cash or equivilant. the writing was on the wall 3 months ago. The sad fact is dpc was another company prepared to take in money from niave investors.

People will be surprised to see the full details. if they do then they see no way out long time ago.

[Nitaa]

What to do as an investor? die a slow death or cut your losses. I know what i would do...


sorry for showing my frustration. i just hate seeing investors being duped.

discl. sold out 3 yrs ago

[Dr_Who]

How much do you think shareholders will get out of this?

Why was Brynes buying shares at much higher levels?

[croesus]

Thankfully never invested.............always had a *87 feel to it... rats tails entwined..sort of thing....Dorchestor, Bridgecorp,Auguste, St Lawrence (by proxy)....and more...and now the emperor has no clothes.......... thinking National Property Trust... could be a contrarian buy shortly..

[tim23]

Some of us are hovering ... Belgie the Vulture.

So you bought a 1000? Gee you may appear on the top 20 at that rate!

[COLIN]

Thankfully never invested.............always had a *87 feel to it... rats tails entwined..sort of thing....Dorchestor, Bridgecorp,Auguste, St Lawrence (by proxy)....and more...and now the emperor has no clothes.......... thinking National Property Trust... could be a contrarian buy shortly..

Croesus, I agree with your comment re the "87 aroma". I was never tempted to go near them.
Re NAP: Price is already heavily discounted and, in theory, Kevin Podmore's problems should not affect them. It was interesting to see the notice today regarding St. Laurence taking their Performance Fee (for managing NAP) by way of NAP units - allocated at a price of just over $1. Meaning, of course, that their value is immediately halved. Good for other NAP holders though!

[Steve]

It appears that DPC burnt thru $10m cash for June. Once again it shows that when a company starts emphasising how much 'cash and equilivants' it has, then the RED FLAG is up...

[croesus]

More bad news for DPC ..to come,,but ....good on St Laurence.. for fessing up before it got completely out of control..... seems looking at what details are available... a complete sell down of assetts... will leave all creditors repaid ...

[Hoop]

Dorchester report reveals woes
By admin
Created 06/30/2008 - 17:12

<LI class="first taxonomy_term_1">Business (http://www.nbr.co.nz/category/category/business) <LI class=taxonomy_term_608>Dorchester Pacific (http://www.nbr.co.nz/category/category/dorchester-pacific)
finance companies (http://www.nbr.co.nz/category/category/finance-companies)by Sarah McDonald


Dorchester Pacific has over $48 million of impaired loans on its books, an increase of more than 400 per cent over the last financial year.
The embattled finance and insurance company, which announced last week that subsidiary Dorchester Finance would be withdrawing its prospectus and seeking a moratorium from investors, released its annual report today.
The financial statements will not provide much comfort to debenture holders and shareholders: they reveal that $109 million of Dorchester’s finance receivables are either impaired or past due.
Impaired business loans, at $41.6 million, are more than 10 times higher than in 2007. Impaired personal loans have stayed static.
Of the $61 million of loans that are past due (but not impaired), 44 per cent are more than 90 days late.
The company’s impairment provisions are just $22 million.
Chairman Barry Graham said in his report that the market environment for Dorchester changed significantly during the 2008 financial year, with changes in investor behaviour, restriction of alternative funding lines and a deterioration of the property market.
How Dorchester’s $29.6 million investment in fellow property financier St Laurence came to be written down by $11.4 million just a year later, was put down to an IFRS requirement to “reflect market conditions”.
Dorchester Pacific posted an after-tax loss of $18 million, in contrast with a profit of $3.8 million for the 2007 financial year.
It owes $197.8 million to debenture holders and $10.8 million to holders of subordinated unsecured notes.
Dorchester shares slumped again today to 13 cents, down from a 52-week high of $1.75.
Island ad par:
4




Source URL (retrieved on 01/07/2008** - 12:37): http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dorchester-report-reveals-woes-32632 (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dorchester-report-reveals-woes-32632)

**Changed from 07/01/2008 edited on 07/07/2008

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Who is the big buyer of DPC to day over 250000 shares through market and still a buy order for 250000 shares any opinions

[tim23]

Its only $50,000 odd hardly sizeable maybe just a punter?

[Halebop]

Who is the big buyer of DPC to day over 250000 shares through market and still a buy order for 250000 shares any opinions

Chicken Feed.

[Dr_Who]

Interesting to see some decent buying of good size in DPC. Whats up?

Will have to check top shareholders list in a few weeks to review the buyer.

[lewinsky]

A tad ironic that I received the letter advising of the moratorium today and with was an election notice that you had to complete to receive a printed annual report.
Almost like,we hope not too many people bother so they cant see in print what a crap set of financials we have.
I have the minimum holding left so that I can be entertained at the Annual Meeting. Cheaper than buying tickets to Lenny Henry and almost as farcical.
I wonder who is up for re-election this year?
LEW

[glennj]

Glennj ---are You Still Waiting For The Rearating

No way Malcy! All sold 16/03/07 . You're trolling ancient history & missed subsequent post? That or disingenious. Good IRR's of 10.3, 14.8 & 23.1&#37; Useful profits!
Was rerated to a sell!
As for tents; big modern house with boiler fired central heating. Now what about yourself? Did you take a hiding on DPC or something.

[Steve]

Dorchester Pacific has over $48 million of impaired loans on its books, an increase of more than 400 per cent over the last financial year.
...
The financial statements will not provide much comfort to debenture holders and shareholders: they reveal that $109 million of Dorchester’s finance receivables are either impaired or past due.
Impaired business loans, at $41.6 million, are more than 10 times higher than in 2007. Impaired personal loans have stayed static.
Of the $61 million of loans that are past due (but not impaired), 44 per cent are more than 90 days late.
The company’s impairment provisions are just $22 million.

Source URL (retrieved on 07/01/2008 - 12:37): http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dorchester-report-reveals-woes-32632 (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dorchester-report-reveals-woes-32632)

Despite the above mess at balance date, announcements made at the time (Mar 08) made little (if any) reference to what was the reality, instead focussing on the cash & equivilents on hand.

Shame on Barry Graham!

[Dr_Who]

Despite the above mess at balance date, announcements made at the time (Mar 08) made little (if any) reference to what was the reality, instead focussing on the cash & equivilents on hand.

Shame on Barry Graham!

hmmm.. I wonder if there is any legal grounds to challenge the existing and previous management?

[dsurf]

Guess NTA does not mean a lot when all the board are protecting thier own jobs and economical with communications regarding a public owned company that they do not own (excluding free options).

The main clown still makes me laugh since he did not realise there was any funding issues 6 months into a worldwide credit crisis. who hired him - the unaccountable creative accounting board?

Even funnier is that NTA will reflect the market value of St Lawrence as at balance date (31 mar 08) until mid Oct 08 when the half yearly comes out.

I am going to buy one ticket for the Gala show (AGM).

Should be fun

Bring some rotten fruit

[Dr_Who]

Bring some rotten fruit

I have a box full that has been brewing in the basement since the beginning of this year.

I ll be at the AGM.

[Hoop]

Edited my #616 post

Originally had 07/01/08
changed to read the NZ date format 01/07/2008

Apologies..Hoop the kiwi has been reading to many American posts or was it the automatic source format program I used

[Dr_Who]

Brynes bought more shares!! He now holds 1.47m shares!!

[Nitaa]

Im picking the next lot of bad news for investors within 2 weeks.

[Dr_Who]

Calls to liquidate the company.

Your views?

[blackcap]

Isnt that what they are basically doing with the moritorium?

[Ears]

Blackcap

Moratorium gives them 2 years to decide on liquidation or another activity. I guess a liquidation would take 2 years anyway.

Are you still wearing clogs or are you back in NZ?

[lewinsky]

i guess my concerns with Barry Graham and Dorchester are the following:-



1) Has he misled the market by announcing a forecast profit of $ 6 million in August last year, $ 3 million in February and finally ending up with a loss of $18 million.

2) Is there a conflict of interest between he and Walker being directors of St Laurence and Dorchester.

3) Who are the independent directors?

4) Was the St Laurence deal which Walker claimed to be the best deal he has ever done, in the best interest of ALL Dorchester shareholders.

5) Suspending payments to debenture holders gives a clear message that you are unable to meet your liabilities as they fall due Otherwise why take this action?

6) What is the relationship with Podmore and Walker at the time of the transaction? Did they know each other? Given that Walker is now working for St Laurence the transaction has a hint of cosey about it.

I guess more will be revealed at the next Annual Meeting.

LEW

[Dr_Who]

LEW, I totall agree with you.

Are you going to the meeting? I would love to hear the answers to those questions.

[Nitaa]

i guess my concerns with Barry Graham and Dorchester are the following:-



1) Has he misled the market by announcing a forecast profit of $ 6 million in August last year, $ 3 million in February and finally ending up with a loss of $18 million.

2) Is there a conflict of interest between he and Walker being directors of St Laurence and Dorchester.

3) Who are the independent directors?

4) Was the St Laurence deal which Walker claimed to be the best deal he has ever done, in the best interest of ALL Dorchester shareholders.

5) Suspending payments to debenture holders gives a clear message that you are unable to meet your liabilities as they fall due Otherwise why take this action?

6) What is the relationship with Podmore and Walker at the time of the transaction? Did they know each other? Given that Walker is now working for St Laurence the transaction has a hint of cosey about it.

I guess more will be revealed at the next Annual Meeting.

LEWvery good questions. When everyone was concenred about their cashflow even when they supposedly had $30m of cash and equivilant many (including myself) had great concerns. How is it that i found about about it over 3 months ago and the market only finds out a few weeks ago? Short answer, not enough acountability required and not enough penalities to prevent these rogues from misleading investors.

[lewinsky]

I always look forward to receiving the Daily Reckoning and recommend it as a free service which gives a great commentary on the state of the US economy, gold,oil and markets in general
Todays comments on the state of US banks sort of rings true to our finance companies

--"The biggest problem is that this is not a liquidity crisis now. It’s a solvency crisis. An institution is solvent as long as it can pay its debts with cash. The trouble with leverage is you finance the asset side of your balance sheet with borrowed money. You borrow to buy. That means you have to pay interest (to bondholders in this case) on the borrowed money, and hope you continue to receive interest (on the loans you’ve made).

--Only it’s not happening that way now. As U.S. housing prices continue to fall, more and more homeowners are defaulting are their loans (and even more will, we reckon). These loans, remember, are assets on the bank balance sheet (when they are not securitised and sold as bonds). Thus, the quality of bank assets is now a front-and-centre issue with smaller and regional U.S. banks.

--There are many commentators who would like to sayy this is all matter of sentiment and temperament and mood. But the real issue is the quality of the assets on so many bank balance sheets. The most heavily levered financial institutions will find themselves insolvent. The rest will be forced to make a massive write down on their assets. "

A recommended read!

[Dr_Who]

Three cheers for Bruce Shepard. I will vote in support of Brucie. As a shareholder, I am tied of all the BS that has been going on behind the scene inside DPC that only benefits the few in the know. Time for these jokers to be held accountable!!!!!


Dorchester says bid to liquidate won't succeed

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10521557

[POSSUM THE CAT]

There should at least be motion asking Mr Graham to resign put to the meeting

[Lawso]

I sold out of DPC in 2006 at prices between 208 and 250cps. Am tempted to buy a few at around 20c just so I can enjoy the fun at the next agm. Bruce Sheppard, for one, will have plenty to say.

[Dr_Who]

Paul Anthony BYRNES continues to buy shares. He is up to 1.72m shares now.

Whats going on?

[Reihana]

Damned if I know; he's going to have to ride out a great deal more bad times in the finance sector if what I just heard is true, which is that at 4pm today Hanover will request a moratorium. They've been run through by Fortress, from what I hear.

[lewinsky]

Has anyone received the letter from the Shareholders Association aka Bruce Sheppard seeking an EGM to wind up Dorchester and remove Graham and Byrnes as directors?
I'd be interested in peoples views.

LEW.

[Dr_Who]

Has anyone received the letter from the Shareholders Association aka Bruce Sheppard seeking an EGM to wind up Dorchester and remove Graham and Byrnes as directors?
I'd be interested in peoples views.

LEW.

I ve received the letter. I would also like to have peoples view on it. It would be nice to have DPC director's response to the letter. If they dont respond, then I will vote for a liquidation.

Anyone have Brynes or Graham's email?

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Dr Who & Lewinsy: I have received the letter as above. Think that Graham should go either by expulsion or if he has any sense voluntarily. Byrnes I am very curious why Sheppard has singled him out from the other directors. As he has been buying Dorchester shares on market why? So he in my opinion has a lot to lose if the whole thing goes belly up. At times I question both Shepperd & Gaynors motives.

[Nitaa]

Dr Who & Lewinsy: I have received the letter as above. Think that Graham should go either by expulsion or if he has any sense voluntarily. Byrnes I am very curious why Sheppard has singled him out from the other directors. As he has been buying Dorchester shares on market why? So he in my opinion has a lot to lose if the whole thing goes belly up. At times I question both Shepperd & Gaynors motives.1 thought i had is Brynes has more to gain in the long term by keeping Dorcestor going for another 12 months or 2 years through his salary package, entitlements, bonuses, golden handshake etc. He can say to investors, look at me, i am putting my money where my mouth is but in reality it could pale in comparison of what he can earn because of his position and salary package. Only a theory

I talked to an informant who bailed the company a few months ago when i saw the ship sinking. He said the writing was on the wall for some time. The same person was given the privilege (like the rest of dpc staff) of buying the stock for around $2.60 - $2.80 a few years ago at no interest. I am not sure if or when he sold.

[BlackPeter]

Dr Who & Lewinsy: I have received the letter as above. Think that Graham should go either by expulsion or if he has any sense voluntarily. Byrnes I am very curious why Sheppard has singled him out from the other directors. As he has been buying Dorchester shares on market why? So he in my opinion has a lot to lose if the whole thing goes belly up. At times I question both Shepperd & Gaynors motives.

I received the same letter and signed and returned it. At this stage is this just asking for a special General Meeting and putting three (I believe very valid) motions onto the agenda. Only if this meeting is called (and I think, it should be) can shareholders decide, whether they want to vote for or against any of the motions.

I haven't yet made up my mind on all of the proposed resolutions (and it will be interesting to see the response of the board), but I certainly think that
a) Graham is overdue for a push and
b) the question whether liquidation is the better option than allowing Byrnes and Co to slowly (or quickly?) burn the rest of the cash deserves a frank and open discussion.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Black Peter received letter today from Mr Graham moaning about the waste of money on and everybody's time holding a special meeting. I assume everybody would be happy if he put those resolutions to the AGM. Except in my opinion Mr Graham. But if he will not I would be of the opinion he is not fit to be a board member let alone the Managing Director of any company

[dsurf]

Mr Graham will lose his job if DPC goes under - No more gravy - just the train.

[Dr_Who]

Mr Graham will lose his job if DPC goes under - No more gravy - just the train.

I agree. WE need to investigate where the money has been spent and who it went to. How much are we paying these geezers?

[BlackPeter]

I agree. WE need to investigate where the money has been spent and who it went to. How much are we paying these geezers?

too much ... though if I correctly remember asked the board last time for a payrise (which the meeting declined). According to the latest annual report did we pay Mr Graham $72.000 for his value adding activity. Mr. Byrnes was in with $44.000;

I trust that Paul Byrnes income is better these days - the old CEO (Walker) was in with a salary of slightly above 1 Million Dollars p.a. in 2007 and 780k in 2008 (smaller bonus??? and assuming that it was him taking each time the largest reported remuneration home).

It is probably a fair assumption that Byrnes current salary is in the same order of magnitude. Just delaying the liquidation by one month would pay him already close to $70k more (I shudder when adding this up to months or years).

Looks like Nita has a point.

[Dr_Who]

Thanks BlackPeter. It all seems very clear. I will be voting for the liquidation of DPC. The sooner the better. I would also like an investigation into the going on in DPC with possible legal action. When one starts to put the puzzle together the dirt starts to show.

These geezers are draining the only remaining cash left in the kitty!!

[Lawso]

In his latest newsletter Chris Lee is pretty scathing about Sheppard's action in canvassing for proxy votes and seeking to liquidate DPC. I can't quote in full for copyright reasons, but CL describes it as an "inane request" and "little more than a stunt" that brings discredit to the NZ Shareholders' Association. For some time Lee has been generally supportive of Graham and the board and critical of Brent King.

[Dr_Who]

Lawso, do you have a link?

[Lawso]

chris@chrislee.co.nz

I'm not sure if you'll be able to access or if it's restricted to clients

[winner69]

Lawso, do you have a link?

http://www.chrislee.co.nz/current%20column%20(p1).htm

[Dr_Who]

Thanks guys. This is all so confusing at times.

[BlackPeter]

Thanks guys. This is all so confusing at times.

I've read Chris Lee's comments. They are in line with his previous staunch support of Dorchester and St Laurence. Unfortunately is their information content this time not up to his usual standard - he writes scathing, but doesn't bring a lot of arguments (except mentioning that Bruce Sheppard might have some personal reason to be annoyed with Barry Graham).

Dr. Who - I agree as well: the whole thing is pretty confusing, and I am not sure what the truth is either. I do respect Chris Lee and appreciate his comments (and newsletters). On the other hand - he doesn't get it right every time (just from memory - I think he rated Dorchester and St Laurence still some 12 and even 6 months ago as pretty safe places to put your money).

Admittedly - I don't get it right every time either (otherwise I wouldn't hold any more DPC - would I??? :o ), but I still think that a frank and open discussion with all sides putting their cards open on the table would be much better than the current secret games with seemingly plenty of hidden agendas and conflicts of interest thrown in! I certainly have the guts full and lost trust in the existing DPC board!

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Some how we need this sorted at AGM rather than throwing more money down drain on a another meeting as well

[Dr_Who]

I certainly have the guts full and lost trust in the existing DPC board!

I hear you loud and clear.

DPC is my only bad investment in my NZ portfolio for this year. The DPC board have had their chances and they blew it. Even now there is a lack of transparency to give the shareholders any confidence. If the board had not invested in STL there will still be plenty of cash in the kitty to distribute back to the shareholders.

I also cant justify paying a CEO $1 million p/a to sell off assets. Anyone geezer can do that. The current board needs to go. Assets needs to be sold on a timely manner to realize their true value. Need to be very prudent in their spending of existing cash.

I have made up my mind and will vote to liquidate DPC. Lets get this done the soon!

[dsurf]

Herald story

Last month Dorchester Pacific Group said it aimed to finalise its survival plan by the middle of this month and put it to a vote by the end of August or early September.

Yesterday Dorchester's trustee, Louise Edwards of Perpetual Trust, said she was promised an up-to-date plan from Dorchester by Friday last week but it still had not arrived.

"The delays that we're experiencing are certainly frustrating to us and I'm sure are frustrating to investors. However we are in close communication and do expect that plan to arrive in the next day or two.


"It's a bit of a balancing act; we want to make sure the plan is robust in all cases and to make sure we get the best outcome."

Wellington-based St Laurence Finance, 25 per cent owned by Dorchester, ceased lending and raising money from the public in June and has yet to put its plans for a "scheme of repayment" to investors.

The Herald understands the company will update investors in the next week or so. The company expects to send details of the plan to investors by the third week of September, with a vote in October.

[Nitaa]

the latest announcement looks a classic ...hold on a bit more while we squeeze for money from the company, only to reduce the value to creditors when the company is liquidated.

In all honesty, this type of behavour is unaceptable. it is nothing less than raping innocent victims of hard earned money.

[Nitaa]

any shareholders contacted the company or knows what sort of rescue plan dpc has to offer. IMO the ceo and directors are just bleeding the last few drops while they can. very sad state.

discl. dont hold. please dyor

[Dr_Who]

As a shareholder who was dumb enough to buy into DPC I am @#$% pissed off!!!!

I cant wait till AGM, gonna give them hell. I dont give a rats ass if I get thrown out of the AGM!!

[Dr_Who]

Is DPC in the list of the finance companies guaranteed by the RB?

[Lizard]

Not at the moment (as posted on Finance Coys thread):
Business Day (http://www.businessday.co.nz/industries/finance_banking/4725718)

[Dr_Who]

DPC
26/11/2008
GENERAL

REL: 1612 HRS Dorchester Pacific Limited

GENERAL: DPC: DORCHESTER ADVISES DETAILS OF 3 YEAR REPAYMENT

26 November 2008
Company Announcement

DORCHESTER ADVISES DETAILS OF 3 YEAR REPAYMENT PLAN FOR DEBENTURE
STOCKHOLDERS AND NOTEHOLDERS

Dorchester Pacific has announced details of the Deferred Repayment Plan for
Dorchester Finance investors. Investors will vote on the plan on 17 December
2008.

Under the Plan, Secured Debenture Stockholders would be repaid their $164
million principal in 12 payments over 3 years with an initial payment of 20%
prior to Christmas, followed by 10 quarterly payments of between 5% and 7.5%
and a final payment of 17.5% on 30 September 2011. Unsecured Noteholders
owed $8m would be repaid in two instalments with an initial payment of 10%
prior to Christmas and a final payment of 90% on 30 September 2011.

No accrued or future interest would be payable to investors but secured
Debenture Stockholders would participate in a profit share payment of 50% at
the end of the 3 years.

Details of the Plan will be mailed to investors on 30 November 2008 and a
number of Investor Roadshows will be held around the country between the 6
and 12 December before the meeting to vote on the Plan to be held in Auckland
on 17 December 2008.

If the Deferred Repayment Plan is approved PricewaterhouseCoopers will be
appointed Monitoring Manager to monitor progress over the 3 year term of the
Plan.

Chairman, Barry Graham commented: "We appreciate that the delay in finalising
the Deferred Repayment Plan has been frustrating for investors. But the time
taken has been very well spent in consulting and working closely with the
Trustees and with a number of expert independent advisors. So, we are
especially pleased that we have been able to finalise the Plan in time for a
vote and the prospect of an initial payment prior to Christmas.

"The outcome contemplated by the Plan is dependent on the performance of and
volatility in the economy, particularly in the property market.
"The Board considers that the Plan provides benefits and options which would
not be available under a receivership or in a liquidation. Under the plan
the business will continue to operate as a going concern. Key management
will be able to be retained and loans will be able to be realised in an
orderly way. This would give the Dorchester Group the time needed to
restructure its balance sheet, raise new equity, secure wholesale funding
lines, and participate in any industry consolidation that may eventuate
within the finance sector."

Executive Director, Paul Byrnes commented: "The focus of the Plan is to
return principal to investors as quickly as possible. The business will
continue to operate as a going concern but on a much reduced scale. No new
lending on property will be undertaken over the term of the Plan. Consumer
lending will be restricted under lending covenants in the Plan and will also
be subject to a new Lending and Credit Policy recently developed and supplied
to the Trustees. In developing the Plan a no-new-lending option was modelled
but the Board believes that a no-new-lending scenario is simply not viable.

"Staff numbers within the Dorchester Group have been reduced by approximately
30 over the last few months and a significantly lower salary, wages and
overhead cost base has been achieved. The executive team has been reduced
from 6 to 2. Further work is continuing on simplifying the structure of the
organisation with the objective of minimising overheads and operating
expenses."

Mr Byrnes noted that "while restructuring of the business and development of
the Deferred Repayment Plan over the last 3 months has been hugely time
consuming our focus and priority has remained on management of receivables
and the company's cash position. Despite the deteriorating market we have
managed to exceed our cash position projections. This has enabled us to
increase the first repayment of principal from an originally proposed 15% to
20% of principal for secured Debenture Stockholders.

"Realisation of the property loan book is where the biggest uncertainty lies.
The advantage of the Deferred Repayment Plan is that it will allow time for
an orderly realisation of these assets. The alternative of a receivership is
unlikely to maximise return for investors. Forced sales and the stigma of
receivership, and its effect on counter party behaviour, would likely lead to
lower realisations than under the Deferred Repayment Plan.

"The Board believes that in the current economic circumstances the Deferred
Repayment Plan would provide a materially better outcome than the alternative
of receivership or liquidation."

ENDS

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Belgarion is management going to be tossed out in February

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Belgarion Question

[Nitaa]

Writing is on the wall and the engraver is nearly finished with the headstone...its about the point where he is writing R.I.P

[bermuda]

Nita,
I hope you took the opportunity to get out in March.

Far out, another one bites the dust. The above was my last post on this sad case. I think the price was about 80 cents then. As Phaedrus says , dont get caught in a downtrend.

[Nitaa]

Far out, another one bites the dust. The above was my last post on this sad case. I think the price was about 80 cents then. As Phaedrus says , dont get caught in a downtrend.
I sold this stock at a tad over $2.50 after buying at $2.80. I did hear from the inside that this was in trouble early last year. A lot linked to the property sector especially in Queenstown.

This was one stock i kept warning people many times last year and it was only a mattewr of time

I would even go as far as to say that dpc completely mislead investors by implying that they the company was in a good position with plenty of cash reserves. i.e $30m in cash equivilent. I see this as a criminal offence imo ande hope someone is hung out to dry

[blackcap]

Exactly, its a special meeting.... people look up your company law!

They need 75% support for it to go into effect. The question is though, who called it?

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Who is going to the meeting tomorrow

[dsurf]

Executive announces interest repayment on track! Sorry it is 6months or more late. Meanwhile 95% of shareholder value lost in a year. And the Chairman & board largely remain. What a bunch of leeches

[Nitaa]

Here we go, here we go, here we go
Here we go, here we goooooo-oh
Here we go, here we go, here we go
Here we go, here we goooooo-oh

Zero comment on DPC last annoucement? Note even this?

Executive Director, Mr. Paul Byrnes, said: "We are satisfied with the
progress we are making under the Deferred Repayment Plan and are currently
ahead of expectations in relation to our cash position. We are well on track
to make the next principal repayment on 30 June 2009."

Hope ya's all been topping up or averaging down as the case may be .... Bid 5.0 - offer 12.0 cents - spread over 100% - a true penny dreadful!

discl: hold as part of my high risk/high return portfolio. Small change stuff but kinda fun. :)Problem is if you want to buy the stock you need to pay 12 cps then if you want to sell them the same day you will only get 5 cps. (going by yesterday that is as i havent looked at what they are doing today) Fugly if you ask me,

[Steve]

I see that the Dunedin office has been terminated. With the building available for lease, I would assume that the premises were rented and not owned by DPC.

At least they are paying the investors back...

[blackcap]

Hello- where are we heading now. The Bakery buy a big stake. If anything it may be an intersting ride. Or is this just some swapping of share/cash with no relevance?

https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=2306262

[Xerof]

Looking at it another way - Poddy is selling out..........

[Dr_Who]

Looking at it another way - Poddy is selling out..........

As a suffering shareholder of DPC I would like to say good riddance to bad rubbish.

DPC had alot of cash in the books until St Lawrence sucked it all out.

[kerryo]

42 Below founders buy Dorchester stake :)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2821214/42-Below-founders-buy-Dorchester-stake

[dsurf]

Expect to see this one fully supported by various existing stakeholders. 5K on market increased the SP 58% to 10c

I can only assume the 5K spent was by interests who recently purchased millions of shares at 5.8c but then I have always been sceptical.

[kerryo]

More news on a possible takeover.:)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2824370/42-Below-founders-poised-for-takeover

[Dr_Who]

I would hate to see DPC sold at these prices. I am not selling.

Any T/O should pay at least NTA for it.

[Balance]

Not a takeover, guys.

42 Below boys looking to use as investment vehicle.

Only problem is that Brent King of Viking-going-down-the-seas could be back!

[COLIN]

Any T/O should pay at least NTA for it.

Whatever NTA might be - who knows.

[whatsup]

Hole-LY H@ll .24c!!! it must fall this is cr@p imho!!

[Nitaa]

Not a takeover, guys.

42 Below boys looking to use as investment vehicle.

Only problem is that Brent King of Viking-going-down-the-seas could be back!Exactly my thought

[Dr_Who]

ROFL.... DPC is the only stock in green on my watchlist. :D

[The Good Oil]

Whatever NTA might be - who knows.

Dorchy is a finance company that has about $80 million worth of debentures on its book, that it receives a margin on. The management have agreed to a moratorium, whereby the debentures will all be paid back over the next two and a bit years. (if they can). Outside of that dorchy has bugger all businesses or revenue. Until monday this was a 6 cent share heading too zero, and unless the Baker boy can pull a miracle, or he has just gambled
400K.

My calcs tell me that at the rate of the moratorium repayment plan Dorchy will have negative shareholders equity by mid 2010. Dont you love this company, the GM of operations rewards himself with a $350,000 year income to run the company to zero, and the top 4 employees get paid more than 1 million bucks a year.

Maybe, the Baker Boys intend to sack these four and replace them with the tea lady. After all, she couldnt do any worse than they are.

Good luck to "The Bakery" the debenture and and shareholders are praying for you.

P.S I bet there will be no King in sight on this deal.

[kerryo]

Dorchy is a finance company that has about $80 million worth of debentures on its book, that it receives a margin on. The management have agreed to a moratorium, whereby the debentures will all be paid back over the next two and a bit years. (if they can). Outside of that dorchy has bugger all businesses or revenue. Until monday this was a 6 cent share heading too zero, and unless the Baker boy can pull a miracle, or he has just gambled
400K.

My calcs tell me that at the rate of the moratorium repayment plan Dorchy will have negative shareholders equity by mid 2010. Dont you love this company, the GM of operations rewards himself with a $350,000 year income to run the company to zero, and the top 4 employees get paid more than 1 million bucks a year.

Maybe, the Baker Boys intend to sack these four and replace them with the tea lady. After all, she couldnt do any worse than they are.

Good luck to "The Bakery" the debenture and and shareholders are praying for you.

P.S I bet there will be no King in sight on this deal.




Don't forget Dorchester Life .... this quote in the recent Stuff.co.nz story.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2824370/42-Below-founders-poised-for-takeover

The new shareholders also expect return on their investment through Dorchester's insurance arm Dorchester Life, which achieved a $1.2 million pre-tax operating profit for the year ended March 2009.

[The Good Oil]

Don't forget Dorchester Life .... this quote in the recent Stuff.co.nz story.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2824370/42-Below-founders-poised-for-takeover

The new shareholders also expect return on their investment through Dorchester's insurance arm Dorchester Life, which achieved a $1.2 million pre-tax operating profit for the year ended March 2009.

The dorchester Life arm includes the reverse annuity mortgage book, which is a very mature book, that is in run off. Like all other parts of Dorchies business its racing to zero, very quickly. The same could also be said about the car finance book. None of their businesses are growing, that is the problem. I assume this is what the Baker boys intend to arrest, otherwise the shareholder funds will be negative in no time.

Best of luck, this will test their skills.

[dsurf]

Games being played

This one is being bid up using FA cash by the people who got in sub 10C. Classic sucker play - The "game playing team" will take turns bidding it up often using clients money (clients feel good - up 30% today - what a good advisor I have!) and selling out to each other for a profit as the SP rises. Alongside this the BUY side is loaded with BS orders for 100K+ volumes creating the impression of underlying support. The game players have access to order flow faster than BNZ, Direct, ASB clients so can withdraw the BS buy orders very quickly. On the depth at 09:20am this morning there are 2 bidders after 162K at 13c. and 110K at 11c. The match this morning would be 15c but "someone" is bidding 18c for 25K shares (cost $4,500) so that the stock will open up at 18C. And so on and so on. If you want to join the game remember that the gameplayers already have bought a large holding (large versus the 25K bid at 18C) at much lower prices so gain a lot more than they lose by pushing the SP up.

This can continue for a long time as it is nothing but manipulation of a low priced , tightly held stock,. The classic text book ramp is PLS at 80c+ and is not illegal as no-one can prove wrongdoing aka pls.

Then I suspect, in around 6 months or when the capital raising climate has returned to normal the business will come out with a new plan that will allow existing shareholders to purchase at 60c. This will seem cheap versus 80c and entice the suckers to buy from the Baker boys & the game playing team (who all know each other through previous capital raising schemes).

This will allow all money invested to be returned to the Baker boys & the game playing team who will also retain a large shareholding stake.

The business will have achieved ZIP and millions of market capitalisation is instantly created.

Have fun & get out when the chart shows demand drying up. Also check out the PLS chart!

[kerryo]

"dsurf" and "The Good Oil" thankyou for the insight, I was suspicious of why someone kept pushing the price up with small buy quantities. :eek:

She's a hard road this, learning the sharemarket game. :o

[Toulouse - Luzern]

FYI ...

From the news tab on the DB website for DPC, quotes, charts, news etc ...

Cheers


"Top performing KiwiSaver fund managers, Huljich Wealth Management, have
formed a strategic sales alliance with financial services company,
DorchesterLife.

DorchesterLife has been an established player in the insurance and savings
market for over 30 years, with an experienced team of nationwide sales
agents, and the Huljich KiwiSaver scheme sits naturally with their stable of
existing products.

'We recognised the growing acceptance of the KiwiSaver concept amongst our
target market, and wanted to align ourselves with the best scheme provider
out there' said DorchesterLife Chief Executive, Henry Lynch. "

'With directors like Peter Huljich, Don Brash and John Banks and a track
record of consistent performance in a volatile market, we're extremely
excited to be involved with Huljich Wealth Management - we feel comfortable
knowing our clients' money will be in such professional, experienced hands.'

[dsurf]

Game players & Baker Boys (FTB was very good with there announcements) need to have regular announcements to protect the company insiders (read management & executive who are all shareholders) from "please explain share price increase" notices coming from the stock exchange.

How does choosing Hulich benefit DPC kiwisaver investors? Will Hulich not accept money from other sources? What is the benefit to the DPC bottom line? Do DPC management have nothing better to annouce? More BS.

Is a finance company choosing to have a Kiwisaver providor really news. Check out the PLS news & see how announcements are integral to ramping.

Also ask yourself if the Gameplayers know the Baker Boys who know the DPC management club who know the Baker Boys who know the game players who know Hulich who know BKBurger who know the gameplayers

[Dr_Who]

Anything is got to be better then St Lawrence and Bridgecorp.

St Lawrence's biatch (Andrew Walker) sucked all the cash out of the company and walked away. :mad: Andrew Walker (remember this name) did a deal with St Lawrence where most of the cash was sucked out of DPC leaving the company with an empty barrel. Surprise, surprise when DPC was dried and dying, Andrew W was offered a position with St Lawrence.

This is a very good example why NZers prefer to invest majority in properties and not equities.

disc: a shareholder :mad:

DPC
28/03/2007
ASSET

REL: 1524 HRS Dorchester Pacific Limited

ASSET: DPC: Dorchester acquires 25% stake in St Laurence

Media Release
28 March 2007

DORCHESTER ACQUIRES 25 PERCENT STAKE IN ST LAURENCE LIMITED

Listed financial solutions provider, Dorchester Pacific Limited
("Dorchester"), has expanded its reach into the property finance and the fund
and asset management markets with the acquisition of a 25 percent stake of St
Laurence Limited, for an investment of $29.6 million.

Dorchester Pacific warns of property bad debts, CEO to go

Friday, May 2nd, 2008

Shares in Dorchester Pacific slumped a further 12.5% on Friday morning to a record low of 35 cents after it warned in a statement late on Thursday it would not achieve a NZ$3-4 million profit target because of a likely NZ$5 million increase in expected bad debt provisions for property and a write-down on its 25% stake in fellow finance company St Laurence.

Dorchester Pacific also said its chief executive Andrew Walker had resigned to take up a role at Auguste Holdings, which is the Kevin Podmore-owned major shareholder in St Laurence. Dorchester’s shares have fallen 30% since the warning.

[The Good Oil]

Game players & Baker Boys (FTB was very good with there announcements) need to have regular announcements to protect the company insiders (read management & executive who are all shareholders) from "please explain share price increase" notices coming from the stock exchange.

How does choosing Hulich benefit DPC kiwisaver investors? Will Hulich not accept money from other sources? What is the benefit to the DPC bottom line? Do DPC management have nothing better to annouce? More BS.

Is a finance company choosing to have a Kiwisaver providor really news. Check out the PLS news & see how announcements are integral to ramping.

Also ask yourself if the Gameplayers know the Baker Boys who know the DPC management club who know the Baker Boys who know the game players who know Hulich who know BKBurger who know the gameplayers

Dsurf, you speak as if you know the "game Players" please name them, you talk about "The Game Players" and THE BAKER BOYS as if you know their plans. Please enlighten us, or give up on the BS speak!

[dsurf]

yeah I do - seen them in action many times - how long u been investing? See my posts below on this thread before you give me greif! I bought this dog at 2.68 & sold at 2.56. And have slagged it ever since!

posted
04-07-2007, 08:40 PM [B] post #98 WHEN TRADING AT 2.05




Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: , , .
Posts: 351


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At an industry level - rising interest rates and liquidity crunch does not keep the cashflow coming in - hence 4 finace firms fall -over

At a company level - Inexperienced management with no track record and not meeting targets (including the reverse mortage debacle)
- Fractious boardroom
- Split opposing dominant shareholders, reducing any T/O opportunity

I will buy this at a $1.00 in the next 2 years.



Hoop
"Now the interesting thing with DPC is SP $1.61 NTA/S $1.92 !!!!!

NTA is $1.92 - does that assume all loans are collected. does that assume all deals work 100%. Does that assume property values (including head office at 20%??? of nta are valued fairly etc etc

What was bridgecorps NTA - Answer - it does not matter when you have no cash!!!!

POSTED 18/07/07

KJ - The "no cash" does not relate to solvency - I am not suggesting that. It means less funds for re-investment, lower EPS, lower div's etc

The herald article today quoting St Lawrence sums it up well below.

'Flight to quality' tipped to hit all but best finance companies
5:00AM Thursday July 19, 2007
By Adam Bennett


St Laurence managing director Kevin Podmore.
Higher interest rates mean the "flight to quality" following the Bridgecorp collapse will hit finance companies harder than the three failures last year, says finance group St Laurence.

[b]Bridgecorp's receivership has sparked fears that other finance companies will suffer a squeeze on funding as investors divert money to safer havens such as top tier finance firms and banks, as was seen following the collapse of Provincial Finance, National Finance 2000 and Western Bay Finance last year.

Now it can be argued that DPC is a top finance company - however the public are not well informed and think wrongly that Rod Petrovich is involved with DPC. It is not all the publics fault - BKBurger did sell 20% to Petrovich in such a badly promoted deal that the media have been all over it. This deal is why DPC SP has halved.

Is DPC entering buying territory - Not yet - too much bad sentiment re: finance companies.

Will VIK step up and bail them out - No too busy bailing out BIO!!!

pOSTED 28/08/07

"Have you noticed....all investors in DPC have been stung in the last few years...talk about a poison chalice"

Except for the largest insider BKburger who sold the poisoned wine as champagne at circa $2.80 to Rodney who is exceptional at two things: losing other peoples money and drinking champagne they have bought him

pOSTED 31/08/07 - sp NOW $1.40 & FALLING OFF A CLIFF


At the 2006 AGM the cjhairman said they were "changing their lending mix" and showed a before and after pie chart that showed that their lending to the motor vehicle sector had decreased and the lending mix was "safer". It turned out that as loans expired they were not re-lent. The new chairman said this was a strategic move. What a pity a year later they are still exposed.

The other gem was the unvieling of a new corporate symbol. Drum roll....... A backward D

Fantastic!!!

These guys are terrible at spin. The whole management need removing from their "jobs for boys club"

POSTED 15/11/07 sp NOW IS 95C

This is one strange stock - Large holder VIK owns a large chunk & tells the market he is selling - no wonder there are no buyers!! King has lost it - glad I am not into VIK - Not many fund mangers talk down there holdings!

POSTED 30/11/07 sp nOW 85C

I have some thoughts on this one

1/ Barely profitable - The npat of 3m included 2.3?m of "equity accounted earnings" - this means the rest of DPC made 700k

2/ Burning cash - otherwise why sell assets? Maybe they are not getting the retail funding in the door?

3/ Selling assets - sold Direct broking at almost exactly the wrong time - kiwisaver etc had already been signalled by the labour government -

Now they are sellling Equity at a time when retail investors do not want to invest in the main product offfering - finance debentures - so they will not get much - so sounds like they are stopping cash burn

And for the icing on the cake.... drum rolll ..... sell property when their is a credit crunch

Brilliant minds run this company!!!!!!!!

hope it goes under.




My concerns are well laid out in previous posts but to summarise:

-0 yes zero operating profits - losses unknown
-dividend funded via cash generation from asset sales
-worst sector possible sentiment wise - blue chip going under?
-business model relies on retail funds - Why do they need bailing out by HG & St L - no cash generation from operating business - very bad sign - rights issue?
-internal management / boardroom fighting
-huge share overhang publicly stated by founder with vendetta
-generates own bad media by ongoing war with BKburger
-naiive young overly academic CEO - comments on past bad strategy of board without thinking of ramifications - ie business model is weaker than previously
-website & "operational update" allude to share overhang - bizarre at best

and to add my latest....
- phoned head office last week to plead with the co'y secretary tristram Van der meijden (hopefully he reads this thread) to stop the war with VIK at 12:20pm - was told that he was out til midday - I said - it is 20 past will he be long - was told he was always late
- So phoned today twice - phone rang 20 times - no answer -


At best an unhappy company - at worst - will be in recievership within a year??

Best result would be break up & asset sales - thats right they are selling all their assets - hope the grunters in the trough get smoked so the shareholders at least get a bacon butty


pOSTED 22/04/08 sp nOW 50C


My concerns are well laid out in previous posts but to summarise:

-0 yes zero operating profits - losses unknown
-dividend funded via cash generation from asset sales
-worst sector possible sentiment wise - blue chip going under?
-business model relies on retail funds - Why do they need bailing out by HG & St L - no cash generation from operating business - very bad sign - rights issue?
-internal management / boardroom fighting
-huge share overhang publicly stated by founder with vendetta
-generates own bad media by ongoing war with BKburger
-naiive young overly academic CEO - comments on past bad strategy of board without thinking of ramifications - ie business model is weaker than previously
-website & "operational update" allude to share overhang - bizarre at best

and to add my latest....
- phoned head office last week to plead with the co'y secretary tristram Van der meijden (hopefully he reads this thread) to stop the war with VIK at 12:20pm - was told that he was out til midday - I said - it is 20 past will he be long - was told he was always late
- So phoned today twice - phone rang 20 times - no answer -


At best an unhappy company - at worst - will be in recievership within a year??

Best result would be break up & asset sales - thats right they are selling all their assets - hope the grunters in the trough get smoked so the shareholders at least get a bacon butty

ETC ETC ETC BLAH BLAH BLAH

[The Good Oil]

yeah I do - seen them in action many times - how long u been investing? See my posts below on this thread before you give me greif! I bought this dog at 2.68 & sold at 2.56. And have slagged it ever since!

posted
04-07-2007, 08:40 PM [B] post #98 WHEN TRADING AT 2.05




Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: , , .
Posts: 351


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At an industry level - rising interest rates and liquidity crunch does not keep the cashflow coming in - hence 4 finace firms fall -over

At a company level - Inexperienced management with no track record and not meeting targets (including the reverse mortage debacle)
- Fractious boardroom
- Split opposing dominant shareholders, reducing any T/O opportunity

I will buy this at a $1.00 in the next 2 years.




POSTED 18/07/07

KJ - The "no cash" does not relate to solvency - I am not suggesting that. It means less funds for re-investment, lower EPS, lower div's etc

The herald article today quoting St Lawrence sums it up well below.

'Flight to quality' tipped to hit all but best finance companies
5:00AM Thursday July 19, 2007
By Adam Bennett


St Laurence managing director Kevin Podmore.
Higher interest rates mean the "flight to quality" following the Bridgecorp collapse will hit finance companies harder than the three failures last year, says finance group St Laurence.

[b]Bridgecorp's receivership has sparked fears that other finance companies will suffer a squeeze on funding as investors divert money to safer havens such as top tier finance firms and banks, as was seen following the collapse of Provincial Finance, National Finance 2000 and Western Bay Finance last year.

Now it can be argued that DPC is a top finance company - however the public are not well informed and think wrongly that Rod Petrovich is involved with DPC. It is not all the publics fault - BKBurger did sell 20% to Petrovich in such a badly promoted deal that the media have been all over it. This deal is why DPC SP has halved.

Is DPC entering buying territory - Not yet - too much bad sentiment re: finance companies.

Will VIK step up and bail them out - No too busy bailing out BIO!!!

pOSTED 28/08/07


pOSTED 31/08/07 - sp NOW $1.40 & FALLING OFF A CLIFF



POSTED 15/11/07 sp NOW IS 95C


POSTED 30/11/07 sp nOW 85C







pOSTED 22/04/08 sp nOW 50C



ETC ETC ETC BLAH BLAH BLAH

So The Baker Boys game Plan is?
& why did you buy this dog at $2.68.
I have been an active investor for 25 years, have not bought DPC, Yet, but you never know....

New management?, one with a vision, in an industry overtaken by failure, which leaves little competition, sounds like an opportunity to me. A big one at about 6 cps. I suggest that a lot of bad news (honest valuations) needs to be announced before the share Price and the Company can move forward togeather. The current share price is well ahead of itself, and due for a bit a correction.

So if you were the Baker Boys, how would you play it?

[dsurf]

6c is a good buy, well done. It is not what I would do that matters. See earlier post predicting announcements & tactical accumulations. Counter-cyclically it is probably a fantastic time to buy finance company shares. Good luck.

[lewinsky]

Following yet another large loss for the half year, one gets the impression that this company is being kept alive to pay for inept managers and directors.

I would have thought it was overdue for the Chairman to step aside. He appointed Walker, approved the St Laurence deal, made profit projections that were so far out of kilter they were nonsense. I would have hoped the Baker Boys would have tipped him out.

I can't see why the company has been kept going.

Sitting on 1,000 shares for the amusement of the Annual Meetings.

[blackcap]

Following yet another large loss for the half year, one gets the impression that this company is being kept alive to pay for inept managers and directors.

I would have thought it was overdue for the Chairman to step aside. He appointed Walker, approved the St Laurence deal, made profit projections that were so far out of kilter they were nonsense. I would have hoped the Baker Boys would have tipped him out.

I can't see why the company has been kept going.

Sitting on 1,000 shares for the amusement of the Annual Meetings.

Lewinsky do you actually know how this loss was attained?

Accounting can be a wonderful thing. If you read the comments at the full year and again at the half year you will see why a HUGE LOSS has been made....

Not defending the company but sometimes things are not what they seem and Baker Boy whatever their agenda is couldnt stop this either.

[Dr_Who]

Following yet another large loss for the half year, one gets the impression that this company is being kept alive to pay for inept managers and directors.

I would have thought it was overdue for the Chairman to step aside. He appointed Walker, approved the St Laurence deal, made profit projections that were so far out of kilter they were nonsense. I would have hoped the Baker Boys would have tipped him out.

I can't see why the company has been kept going.

Sitting on 1,000 shares for the amusement of the Annual Meetings.


I agree with you.

The chairman can f@#K off and go jump off the cliff. Pardon my French. I am only expressing what most shareholders think of these bunch of geezers.

[lewinsky]

Black cap,

The half yearly report is not out and that will give only a small insight.

The concern is that the Chairman and senior management probably don't know either.

It would however be an educated guess to say that this is the legacy of an ill timed entry into property financing at a time when the market was at its peak and when there were huge warning signs to say cash-up and beware.

Walker, Graham and Byrnes have a lot to answer for. They are propped up by friendly shareholders.

Dr Who is quite correct in his assessment.

[Dr_Who]

Walker, Graham and Byrnes have a lot to answer for.


These sl@ts allow St Lawrances to come in a pillage all the cash in DPC and left it high and dry. The directors in DPC and St Lawrance should also be place in the Tainted directors thread. I will never invest in a any company associated with these idiots again.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Dr Who: Graham to go what are your thoughts on todays announcement they want two new independant directors

[Dr_Who]

Dr Who: Graham to go what are your thoughts on todays announcement they want two new independant directors

About time! A breath of fresh air is positive for the company. I am wondering if they will use it as a backdoor listing and change name?

[lewinsky]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the proposed Capital Reconstruction Plan?
I have yet to see the offer documents but having a cursory glance on the website it would appear that in three years time they will have 172 million shares on issue and be generating a profit of $6 million. After that options can be exercised and so eps will be worse.
I am getting the feeling the only people to benefit here are the directors and senior management, who appear to have had no reduction in fees or remuneration.
As an old dorchester shareholder observed once" this should be a cash cow, but it is being milked before the shareholders will ever see anything".
Like an old dog with mange" is it time to do the humanitarian thing and put it down?

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Lewinsky lot of anti talk at the explanatory meeting this morning but mainly elderly there. Talk after the meeting was that they had been telephoning the biger debenture holders and did not get the same result from them. Read the Stuff reporters article on meeting.

[Dr_Who]

Anyone still in DPC and would like to comment on the cap raising?

I am still in two minds as to take it up or not.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

DR Who I am getting more anyway from debentures if passed on Wednesday will wait until the last minute to decide on the other entitlements but will not be taking all of them. If you are going to the meeting Possum will probally be the scuffiest dressed person there. Or a PM will get you a phone number if you wish to discuss it further.

[ASFVK]

Not sure if thats a good idea the shares are trading @8.5,and with the biggest rat leaving the sinking ship ie the current General Manager in charge of Life and Senate you have to wonder.
Also found it interesting That no notice re his leaving to NZX this was one of the key people to pull DPC out of their current differculties.

Anbody know more on this subject?

[POSSUM THE CAT]

ASFVK how about a name please

[dsurf]

Henry Lynch

Henry Lynch is the General Manager of Group Operations for Dorchester. He is responsible for all group operations including Dorchester Life, Senate Finance and new motor vehicle lending. Henry has managed the Dorchester Life business as Chief Executive since October 2006 and prior to that held senior management and executive roles at Westpac, Tower and as CEO of Catalyst Risk Management.

[dsurf]

Trading at 10c & seeking to raise more money - this company is a survivor. Since it has lost money for years and years and years for shareholders I am in a state of disbelief that natural law has not squished it out of existence. Casino sounds like more fun than giving away perks to trough eating management

[ASFVK]

Sorry to be cryptic but you can check the DPC website its not Mr.van der etc and someone has answered above.

[Felix]

It will be interesting to see how Dorchester progresses post Moratorium and now they have some shareholders funds. What concerns me is an earlier comment from them that the raised capital will put them in the 'right position to take advantage of the further consolidation that is inevitable in the finance industry'. Hopefully any consolidation they undertake takes place after some serious due diligence (unlike Allied Finance's due diligence of Hanover). Personally I just want to see them put their head down, meet their obligations and slowly rebuild the brand and business.

It will also be interesting to see how their shares trade in the coming months. Hopefully they don't sink like ALF shares sunk after lots of shares were issued to Hanover Debenture holders.

[blackcap]

Maybe they are in talks with South Canterbury Finance :P

[Felix]

That would be very unfunny. Even the Government isn't prepared to save the South Canterbury Finance mess!

Good start to trading post the moratorium ending and share issue. Last sale at 11c and buyer at 12c. Early days though.

[blackcap]

That post moratorium trading has suprised me somewhat. I mean the chance to buy extra shares at 10 cents with attached options.... why buy them now for 12 without getting the options?

[winner69]

I feel a little sorry for the likes of Hotch and Watson (and by inference Hangover investors) .... if the GFC had happened a year earlier they could have had the benefit of the government guarantee as well and made hay for another few years .... just like SCF has been going for a year or two longer than they deserved

So it is all a matter of timing eh

[Hoop]

I feel a little sorry for the likes of Hotch and Watson (and by inference Hangover investors) .... if the GFC had happened a year earlier they could have had the benefit of the government guarantee as well and made hay for another few years .... just like SCF has been going for a year or two longer than they deserved

So it is all a matter of timing eh

Timing and the type of car you drive

I may be cynical here... but I still wonder how much extra time the company got with Hubbard's simple life and his famous 1971 VW.
The powers of marketing (intentional or not) ...huh

[lewinsky]

The Annual Meeting notice arrived in my mail box on the weekend.

One of the subjects to vote on is the CEO's new pay. You have to be joking I thought,but no there it was cmplete with a justification from Campbell McPherson.

Paul Byrnes record.

A director who appointed Andrew Walker as CEO. Walker then did the best deal he had ever done. Buy into St Laurence for $30 million,subsequently written down to zero.

Took 12 months to sell Equity Investment Advisers during which time it lost value. Then sold it to the ex MD of Dorchester who he accused of shonky business practices.

When recommended that the company diverse away from finance activities five years ago,and invest in gold related funds, said"that smacks of Goldcorp to me, and then spent $30 mill in St Laurence. Gold at the time was trading at $400 an ounce.

Has taken DPC shares from over $2 to 12 cents,

In my opinion he pays no heed to the pain that shareholders and debenture holders have suffered, and the company should introduce performance based pay.

The vote will be passed because of the two majority shareholders.

LEW

[blackcap]

Are the two biggest holders happy with this? Surely they have some influence... I know the business bakery wont be wearing a loss but Hugh Green certainly will be...

[Jaa]

Timing and the type of car you drive

I may be cynical here... but I still wonder how much extra time the company got with Hubbard's simple life and his famous 1971 VW.
The powers of marketing (intentional or not) ...huh

Or....... maybe SCF was just a better run company and hence was able to survive longer?

[Dr_Who]

The Annual Meeting notice arrived in my mail box on the weekend.

One of the subjects to vote on is the CEO's new pay. You have to be joking I thought,but no there it was cmplete with a justification from Campbell McPherson.

Paul Byrnes record.

A director who appointed Andrew Walker as CEO. Walker then did the best deal he had ever done. Buy into St Laurence for $30 million,subsequently written down to zero.

Took 12 months to sell Equity Investment Advisers during which time it lost value. Then sold it to the ex MD of Dorchester who he accused of shonky business practices.

When recommended that the company diverse away from finance activities five years ago,and invest in gold related funds, said"that smacks of Goldcorp to me, and then spent $30 mill in St Laurence. Gold at the time was trading at $400 an ounce.

Has taken DPC shares from over $2 to 12 cents,

In my opinion he pays no heed to the pain that shareholders and debenture holders have suffered, and the company should introduce performance based pay.

The vote will be passed because of the two majority shareholders.

LEW


I agree.

Andrew Walker and the board allow St Laurance to siphon all the cash away from DPC's account.

[blackcap]

Any take on the half year trading result.... a small loss I see but smaller than expected... the restructuring has certainly seemed to help.... is there a future?

[Lizard]

My thoughts are that at this point, they are probably worth about 85% of their net shareholders equity value ($27m). I say this on the basis that their asset base/product sales are not yet really of a scale to generate ongoing cashflow beyond expenses, so they are basically the sum of their financial resources with a discount for implementation risk. Works out at around 13cps.

Some more random comments:


Where are the financial resources going to come from to increase lending? I am not clear on this point.
If they are simply transferring cash from discontinued operations (RAM's, Senate) to lending, then how will they increase earnings sufficiently to achieve the 3 yr target of $4m profit?
The size of funds under management (shown on their web-site) is tiny and difficult to see where they could offer an advantage at this point.
Likewise, the life insurance business. In fact, all their businesses are currently so "niche" that it is difficult to see what they can do better than larger players.
They have a three year horizon to repay the 5% notes ($17m), so would presumably need some other significant source of funds by then (e.g. bank facility). Although it's probably manageable, it is still a potentially costly hurdle to leap at some point.
Although their half year result is ahead of budget, it was indicated at the agm that this was more due to lower costs than to higher sales.


Overall, I think they may well be a good investment at some point, but I am just going to leave on watch for now as think they could need another 2-3 years of consolidation and groundwork before they are ready for real growth. A break-even forecast for next year suggests there is probably a bit of time before they are going to look obviously "cheap".

[blackcap]

My thoughts are that at this point, they are probably worth about 85% of their net shareholders equity value ($27m). I say this on the basis that their asset base/product sales are not yet really of a scale to generate ongoing cashflow beyond expenses, so they are basically the sum of their financial resources with a discount for implementation risk. Works out at around 13cps.

Some more random comments:


Where are the financial resources going to come from to increase lending? I am not clear on this point.
If they are simply transferring cash from discontinued operations (RAM's, Senate) to lending, then how will they increase earnings sufficiently to achieve the 3 yr target of $4m profit?
The size of funds under management (shown on their web-site) is tiny and difficult to see where they could offer an advantage at this point.
Likewise, the life insurance business. In fact, all their businesses are currently so "niche" that it is difficult to see what they can do better than larger players.
They have a three year horizon to repay the 5% notes ($17m), so would presumably need some other significant source of funds by then (e.g. bank facility). Although it's probably manageable, it is still a potentially costly hurdle to leap at some point.
Although their half year result is ahead of budget, it was indicated at the agm that this was more due to lower costs than to higher sales.


Overall, I think they may well be a good investment at some point, but I am just going to leave on watch for now as think they could need another 2-3 years of consolidation and groundwork before they are ready for real growth. A break-even forecast for next year suggests there is probably a bit of time before they are going to look obviously "cheap".

Liz are they not going to pay back the bonds from the proceeds of the options... 150 million @ 10 cents or thereabouts is 15 million... (rough figures havent got them on hand) but that was my inital thought as to how they were planning to do it.

[blackcap]

Make that 12.5 cent options... that gets them very close if not over the 17 million needed to repay the notes.... and if profit is 4 million come 2012 then the shares should be trading over 12.5 cents. Not a bad strategy all up.

[Lizard]

Maybe you are right there blackcap... but what % of the options are with the former debenture holders (who also hold the notes?). I wouldn't think there would be a high exercise rate from them, and many would not hold a marketable parcel.

Also, conversion of the options is effectively built in future dilution on that basis, so would want to allow for that in valuation - i.e. limits upside to shares until exercised or expired.

[blackcap]

I am aware of the upside ceiling as it were... but with a $4 million dollar profit even double the number of shares on issue it should still provide for a shareprice in excess of 12.5 cents...and options are also saleable on market... yes they may have a small problem with the exercise thereof, but most option holders are shareholders and not debenture holders.... shareholders in the recent restructuring got options als the Business Bakery and Hugh Green.... I presume they would take them up.... $17 million in the bank.

[Lizard]

Hi blackcap,

I have just discovered the answers to my questions are all in the june prospectus with 5 year forward projections for balance sheet and cashflow we can compare against. Haven't seen a company brave enough to do that for a while - but will definitely be a good document to track performance against! :)

Looks like they are planning to get the majority growth through lending, funded by bank loans of $17m in 2012 and $10m in 2013, plus some growth in insurance income.

Biggest issue so far is that op cashflow is running well off the pace to make the 2011 target, so could throw a spanner in the works, but could be a simple timing issue at this stage.

On valuation side, presuming that they achieve all their 5 year projections exactly and make NPAT of $7.8m in year to Mar 2015, then assign market P/E of 10 and expect market cap at end of May 2015 to be $78m. Discount back at 25% pa for 4.5 yrs (based on that being the minimum I would want to bother investing in their shares for) and divide by the number of shares they predict at that time (253m), then would rate as buy up to 11.3cps at this point. Though if they can get through to 2015 and achieve all their targets, then perhaps a P/E of 14 will be fair by then (16cps equiv)?

[blackcap]

Hi Lizard,

Good investigating there. Your synopsis is pretty much spot on. Pe of 14 would be very fair if they meet targets. That said they are already running ahead of target according to their latest announcement which if anything is good for shareholders but also bond holders. Definately see a wealth transfer from Debenture holders to shareholders through the restructuring but then again it was probably a win win situation. A liquidation would mean less for both. A nice plan whoever ultimately came up with it for both sets of stakeholders. A NPAT of 7.8mill with 253 million shares on issue wouldnt that imply a shareprice of 40 cents with a PE of 14 rather than your figure of 16cents? Or have you discounted the 40 cents back into a PV?

[Lizard]

A NPAT of 7.8mill with 253 million shares on issue wouldnt that imply a shareprice of 40 cents with a PE of 14 rather than your figure of 16cents? Or have you discounted the 40 cents back into a PV?

Yes, as per above, have discounted over 4.5 years at 25%pa - which is the minimum I'd want to plan on getting back for something of this nature.

I think it is fairly early days as far as seeing how they are going against plan since plan was produced nearly half way through period when they had good visibility. The revenues are about on track for 50% of their 2011, but op cashflow is not - and they will be reliant on that cashflow for reinvestment if they are going to grow the loan book without resorting to other funding options (beyond the bank loans already allowed for). Link to companies office doc for the prospectus here (http://www.societies.govt.nz/scanned-images/02/BC10059290002.pdf) if anyone wants to refer.

[Hoop]

Hi blackcap,

.........On valuation side, presuming that they achieve all their 5 year projections exactly and make NPAT of $7.8m in year to Mar 2015, then assign market P/E of 10 and expect market cap at end of May 2015 to be $78m. Discount back at 25% pa for 4.5 yrs (based on that being the minimum I would want to bother investing in their shares for) and divide by the number of shares they predict at that time (253m), then would rate as buy up to 11.3cps at this point. Though if they can get through to 2015 and achieve all their targets, then perhaps a P/E of 14 will be fair by then (16cps equiv)?

Hi Liz
Your sights may be too high with the P/E estimates ...historically DPC traded under 10 ....from memory about 8.
Most of the old NZ finance company sector shares use to trade with low P/E & low NTA/share ...the low P/E back in those days use to even out the low NTA /share in evaluating risk v reward investing. DPC was the oddball back then having a much higher NTA/share than its peers.

Edit; ...Its interesting to see these posts.....as I have too been recently eyeing DPC and saying Hmmmmm:mellow:

[blackcap]

Liz and Hoop, cheers for succinct comments. I agree with Hoop that a lower PE of 10 is probably more realistic in the environment which they have traditionally traded. That said, this company still has the suprise element of the Business Bakery and what they want to achieve with it... That for me makes it an interesting prospect in these early day ;)

[blackcap]

well well some action today.. bought up to 15 cents and well bid at 12.5... the magical lets or lets not exercise our options. Although quite a bit of time to go. Certainly more support now than the last 6 months or so.

[Lizard]

Sorry, revised post...

... seems a bit insulting to be offering to buy back the DPC010's at 55cpu off the former debenture holders who received them at face value $1 in August.

From what I can see, they may be illiquid, but the on market trades have been closer to last trade at approx 73.5cpu. Given (I think) the DPC010 will now represent about 12% of original debenture holding, they are basically offering the former debenture holders another 6 cents in the $ haircut.

If they couldn't offer 90%+ of face value, then better they did nothing than to add insult to injury.

[Felix]

To be fair though, the announcement makes it clear that they are targeting people who may not necessarily want to hold the notes and are happy to walk away with the loss. Nobody has an obligation to take up the offer and, as they state, "we have an obligation to use funds in the best interests of all Dorchester shareholders".

[blackcap]

I agree with Felix here, I have a 200 odd holding. Now I cant really go and sell that on market can I and I may not want to wait for 3 years. In essence very smart of DPC to be doing this...If they can get 5 million, they are effectively adding about 4 million to the bottom line..... very clever.

But Lizard, some debenture holders may feel it is adding insult to injury... they dont have to take up the offer though. I will be interested to see how many take it up.

[blackcap]

Announced yesterday, 1.8million of the Notes bought back. Very good for DPC to pick up this much... adds to the bottom line.

[Lizard]

Liz tetal, what're your thoughts on the lastest Notes issue?

I didn't see an interest rate indicated for the notes - did you? Provided they are at reasonable rates, it seems like the sensible thing to do. As far as former debenture holders are concerned, I don't see this as too much of an issue given that the shares are to be issued at 10cps and option conversion adjusted to match. Not ideal, but at least enables DPC to continue on their planned growth path and easy to see why the banks don't want to help with funding facility.

Pretty significant overhang though, so it's going to keep the shares from being terribly interesting for a while.

[Lizard]

Just having a close look at DPC - I'm thinking it would be crazy to buy the heads at current prices if you weren't prepared to buy the notes...DPC010.

A rise of 25% in the shares gives you 10cps and brings into play conversion of the notes and the options - and massive dilution, which probably makes it unlikely. However, it also means they would have enough funds to repay the notes in full - though, at the moment, they are repurchasing as many as they think they can afford at 70 cents in the $.

Just noticed that the Convertible notes given to shareholders not only pay better interest (8.95% +) but are first-ranking and therefore ahead of the DPC010 if I am reading aright. Given the chances of them finding $18m in time to repay the noteholders in mid-2013, this may not be the last possible dilution for shareholders. Options converting at 10cps would be a good outcome... but looks unlikely unless they have a March hare in next years hat. Not sure there are any "good" investments in DPC, but the DPC010's would surely have to be preferable to the shares...

[Lizard]

I see DPC are trying to buy back the DPC010 at 92cpn and are asking noteholders to approve this on a 75% vote rather than making the offer to all holders. To support this, they have come up with a report suggesting that 92cps is at the top end of the valuation range, and implies a 15% yield. This seems an odd conclusion to me. The notes are due for repayment at $1 each in mid 2013 and pay 5% pa which, although low, is still an improvement on most one year rates at present. Given DPC seem to be able to find the funds to pay at least 92% of the notes back right now, then why should the valuation be pricing in much of a default risk at this point? Sure, I would question where DPC have got the funds to repay, but it does seem like they are once again treating their long-suffering former debenture holders with contempt. I know they can still point to having provided better returns than many other debenture providers, including the likes of the larger Hanover and Strategic, but I'm not sure that being "less bad" is a virtue.

No doubt the report will convince noteholders to vote it through - no surprises that they got the report from some outfit I've never heard of before... it will, however, take many years before my distaste for DPC passes.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Lizard This cat will vote no. I might say yes at $1.00 as this includes this quarters Interest & possibly longer depending on how many meetings they need & date of settlement. I think they will struggle to make the proposed settlement date.

[Romulus]

I am also DPC010 holder and at this stage intend to vote against the compulsory purchase @ 92c times number of notes remaining 14.961m = $13.76m. If they can raise $13.76m then surely @ $1.00 the cost would be $14.961m and probably able to raise that also , dif of $1.12m. I guessing they want to book a nice gain of $1.12m in the accounts. By the sounds of things the first meeting will not get the required numbers and hence the second meeting will be the one that determines if they get the green light. If the notes are holding up DPC on a number of fronts and hence the need to repurchase early will allow them to act, then $1 got to be the price.

May I ask how many notes both you people have "Possum the Cat & Lizard"?. I can muster about 270,000 and I'm guessing most small holders won't vote.

[Lizard]

I hardly have any. About 1600. Have sent off my "no" vote.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Romulus hold just over 1000 notes. Planning on going to the meeting. Surely they would be better to save the cost of the meeting & wait 6 months. The venue is one of the most expensive in Auckland

[Romulus]

I won't be able to attend and I doubt that many will. Thankyou for the numbers as it gives me an idea on the number who are likely to vote ( I guessing very low number since many large holders are Korean and probably too difficult to attend). The "NO" vote I suspect will count.

Regards

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Lizard & Romulus The idiots voted yes about 79% of those that voted & they did get a Quorum so all done & dusted. A lot thought that if they voted no they would end up getting nothing.

[Stranger_Danger]

Interesting deal. I'm not sure the stock is good value, but they're doing an excellent recovery job.

[Felix]

I agree the company has done really well coming back from the brink of oblivion. When you think of how many finance companies went to the wall you have to say the Dorchester management has done a great job.

I'm not sure you can measure how good the deal is until the company provides further information about the purchase terms. We know that 60% of the purchase consideration is in cash and 40% in Dorchester shares but we don't know how the cash component is being funded, what level of interest they will be charged and the repayment terms for the funding, the price of the shares that will be issued (i.e. how much the deal dilutes existing shareholders) and the terms of the earn-out arrangement.

[kizame]

Felix, You old stick in the mud ;) you're sounding like W69 ... Who needs all that boring old detail when mgts says the following .....

"The EC Credit Control business will provide an immediate contribution for
the second half of this current financial year and should ensure a profit
after tax of at least $1m for the 12 months to 31 March 2013 even after some
one-off cost write-offs. And with the Dorchester Finance and Insurance
businesses both continuing to improve trading performance, together with a
full contribution from EC Credit Control, the group could achieve a net
profit after tax of $4m - $5m in the next full financial year".

Just the nasty old "could" at he beginning to be worried about ... :p

If the company returns a profit of say $4 million after tax,they are sitting on a pe of 9 at 20c,may be one for the punter a bit further out with maybe another aquisition with synergies,but at the moment a bit too much built into the price.

[Hoop]

If the company returns a profit of say $4 million after tax,they are sitting on a pe of 9 at 20c,may be one for the punter a bit further out with maybe another aquisition with synergies,but at the moment a bit too much built into the price.

DPC is probably a different animal now, but when I was following it years ago it always seemed then to be running on a low PE

[Felix]

Haha now the statement is that "the Dorchester Group could potentially achieve a net profit after tax of $4m - $5m in the next full financial year". Slapping 'could' and 'potentially' together means it's a wish. Heck I 'could potentially' win Lotto this weekend.

Also the PE might look like 9 at the current price but there are some shares to be issued and some debts to be rung up before the purchase is settled and that's got to have some impact (there is still no mention of how the cash component is being funded, what level of interest they will be charged, the debt repayment terms, the price of the shares that will be issued and the terms of the earn-out arrangement).

Good luck to the company and holders though. The company is turning itself around very nicely so hopefully this is the start of something good.

[kerryo]

Still climbing .... no body wants to sell. lol

[noodles]

Can someone enlighten me why this stock is rising? Felix highlighted the "in the money" options outstanding at 10c. Is it the Geoff Ross/Bakery factor?

[Felix]

There are currently 208m shares on issue. The 12.5c options are well in the money now so you'd be a mug to not convert the options to shares in May 2013. There are 150m options outstanding so that takes you up to 358m shares on issue (acknowledging of course that people converting the options to shares will generate some cash for DPC of course).

Then there is the potential issue for shares for the potential 'earn-out' for the purchase of EC Credit Control, with some of this being in shares. There is no indication of how many more shares will be issued for the earn-out so let's be conservative and assume 12m more shares issue to take the total issued shares up to 370m. With a current share price of 26c that represents a market cap of $96m. The company is forecasting an after tax profit of $4m-$5m for 2013/14 so that puts the company on a potential PE of 19 (taking the best case scenario of $5m profit).

There are lots of positives about the company. They have sorted out their financial position, they will have cash flowing in when the options are converted, they are in position to take a leading role in the finance sector consolidation and they appear to have good leaders. I do wonder if the share price has gotten ahead of itself but I'm pleased for the company and for shareholder who have stuck it out over a few tough 4-5 years.

[bermuda]

This stockwillbe a stand out performer for 2013.

Their purchase of East Coast Credit control is a game changer.

[bohemian]

Can anyone tell me if the DFC options at 25c are value?

[Grimy]

This stockwillbe a stand out performer for 2013.

Their purchase of East Coast Credit control is a game changer.
I hope you're right, but anytime someone sells their business, it's either fully/overvalued, or you're tired.......

[noodles]

Anyone still looking at this company for 2013? Seems like a turnaround that deserves a boost in SP.
Are you having a laugh? It has doubled in the last few months.

Suggest you understand the option structure before getting in too deep.

[noodles]

Yup, thought Sparky was taking up too much of the clownosphere around here, thought I'd give it a go. Cheers ;)

I feel like a clown too. Sold at 18c. Based on valuation!

[noodles]

That speculation sure can come back and bite you later on!

Yep, it's a speculators market ATM. No bargains. Nowhere to hide when the tide turns either.

Doesn't suit me at all.

I have more stocks on the LSE than NZX/ASX. Better value to be had.

[kerryo]

DORCHESTER ACQUIRES STRATEGIC STAKE IN TURNERS AUCTIONS

Dorchester Pacific Limited (NZX: DPC) today announced it has entered into an
unconditional sale and purchase agreement to acquire the 18.2% shareholding
in Turners Auctions Limited (NZX: TUA), currently held by interests
associated with Milford Asset Management.

The cash consideration is $9.07 million or $1.82 per share (ex dividend). A
deposit of 5 cents per share has been paid on the execution of the agreement,
with the balance of $1.77 per share payable on 20 June 2013.

Dorchester CEO, and Executive Director Paul Byrnes, said the Turners Auctions
Board had indicated he would be welcomed on to the Board.

"There is a natural alignment between Dorchester and Turners Auctions," said
Mr Byrnes.

"Clearly finance and insurance of motor vehicles
are key drivers for Turners.
Both are areas we can add considerable value to as more than 65% of
Dorchester's new lending is for private and commercial motor vehicles.
And our recently released Mainstream Insurance focuses on motor vehicle
related insurance products to the consumer market.

"Of course, we appreciate any involvement as a provider of finance and
insurance services has to make sense for all Turners Auctions shareholders.
We look forward to working with the Turner's Board and management to achieve
positive initiatives to that end," he said.

"We are also supportive of Turners Auctions' initiative of increasing local
vehicle sourcing through its 'Cash Now' product, and IT initiatives -
including the imminent deployment of a new website."

Dorchester Chairman, Grant Baker, said the investment supported its strategy
to develop an end-to-end finance business.

"It allows us to participate in the origination or 'front-end' of the market.

"This complements our acquisition of
EC Credit Control - a leading supplier
of credit control and debt recovery services - in October last year, which
gives us a profitable position at the back-end of the market.

"We are also continuing to evaluate further acquisition opportunities that
may broaden our financial services offering," Mr Baker said.

ENDS.

One more under the belt.:t_up:

[stones]

It appears that things are on the up DPC. Their recovery is going well and long may it continue. This 20%... shareholding in TUA is I feel a good example of the way forward for DPC