TRA - Turners Automotive Group [previously TNR - Turners Limited]

[DonkeyKong]

How do we see what's happening? (if we can?)

[Greekwatchdog]

..... :eek2: ..... have another look!

golly, so what does everyone do know? sell or hold based on fundamentals?

[Ricky-bobby]

It’s coming up again… $4.77

[bulltrap]

GTK is matching at a new recent high of $6.70. Maybe I backed the wrong horse here.

[Ricky-bobby]

How do we see what's happening? (if we can?)

I’m just on jarden and watching…

[Ricky-bobby]

Now $4.69… man my other shares are having a good lift! It’s all go!

[DonkeyKong]

--------------------------

[Baa_Baa]

$4.68 close, down 10 cents. Who won the poll?

[Muse]

looks like one seller for 500k @ 1.74 left out in the cold

[ronaldson]

It's all over at $4.68.

Now on to the next question. What will the close price be next Friday, when the dust has settled?

[bull....]

savaged and look at all the sellers who missed out :scared:

[see weed]

lol:):):)lol I'm all out at a profit. Thank you Basil. Ok where's the next one. Maybe back to HLG before it gets back to 5.80c while waiting.

[Greekwatchdog]

so who won and lost? Roulette if your trying to play this game

[ronaldson]

3.265m volume today if no more crossings.

[bull....]

back to fundamentals now. if it was valued at 3.60odd before index inclusion momentum and yes we have had some upgrades and good news. do you think that was worth a $ 1.08 more to valuation ?

[Greekwatchdog]

back to fundamentals now. if it was valued at 3.60odd before index inclusion momentum and yes we have had some upgrades and good news. do you think that was worth a $ 1.08 more to valuation ?

My guess it just drifts down to where the market thinks its fair value.
I hope no one got caught in the hype

[bulltrap]

lol:):):)lol I'm all out at a profit. Thank you Basil. Ok where's the next one. Maybe back to HLG before it gets back to 5.80c while waiting.

Ditto. Even made back what I lost holding on to HLG after that 'pop' fizzled. Enough for some new clothes at HLG, but not a second-hand car at TRA.

Hope to buy back in to both companies for the long term, when the time is right. Great iconic Kiwi brands with excellent div yields.

[alokdhir]

Day 10 Finals ....3.268 Million @ $ 4.681 ....wow ...volume more than expectations ....SP less then expectations ...maybe it was too widely participated as safe stock to speculate ...still not bad result for holders ...

Now for next weeks fizzle expectations ...may not happen ...short term bottom $ 4.30 ??

[alokdhir]

It's all over at $4.68.

Now on to the next question. What will the close price be next Friday, when the dust has settled?

My pick is that we will see $ 4.30 during or end of week !!!

[alokdhir]

savaged and look at all the sellers who missed out :scared:

I promised u more then 3 million volume for the week ...U got almost 4 million volume ...so we good mate ?? :p

[alokdhir]

All the operators / big players orders get removed after show over ...only retail orders are left ( mostly ) shows many retail also missed on selling today as still showing more then 200K at various levels ...shud be some pressure next week ...may offer good buying opportunities ...Bull will be rubbing hands gleefully ...lol

[Muse]

All the operators / big players orders get removed after show over ...only retail orders are left ( mostly ) shows many retail also missed on selling today as still showing more then 200K at various levels ...shud be some pressure next week ...may offer good buying opportunities ...Bull will be rubbing hands gleefully ...lol

As the closing match and subsequent processing of off-market transfer forms is a unique time to move meaningful blocks of shares for large holders, coupled with we may still be in an open period for insiders, dont be surprised if we get some SSH or director/officer notices.

[alokdhir]

As the closing match and subsequent processing of off-market transfer forms is a unique time to move meaningful blocks of shares for large holders, coupled with we may still be in an open period for insiders, dont be surprised if we get some SSH or director/officer notices.

Agree with your sensible thoughts ...

What makes me wonder is the total Vol of the match session ....if the total buy side was index funds ( most likely ) then why they bought almost 3.3 Mil against market expectations of 2.2 Mil ?? How can be calculations so adrift that one full extra million got traded ??

[Muse]

Agree with your sensible thoughts ...

What makes me wonder is the total Vol of the match session ....if the total buy side was index funds ( most likely ) then why they bought almost 3.3 Mil against market expectations of 2.2 Mil ?? How can be calculations so adrift that one full extra million got traded ??

I wondered that too. First, while brokers estimate the # of shares required to meet indexation, they are (clearly) just estimates. Estimating S&P index inclusions & weightings - from the outside - is a dark art and I've seen a number of brokers periodically change the way they maintain their index watching index when "their understanding of S&P's inclusion process changes", usually after they've spoken with S&P. Those broker estimates get done way in advance and while usually spot on in terms of who gets included, the constituent weighting probably more variable. You'll recall S&P only distributed the index shares data for capped and equal weighted indices on the 8th of December.

Second observation is those estimated shares required just for the NZX50. TRA also added into the midcap index which adds more demand, but probably less than a quarter than that of the NZX50 (based on eying the relative capitalisations of FNZ & MDZ).

While when we talk about instos and ETFs needing to buy - we are mainly talking about Smartshares in the NZ context. It's possible a few extra instos wanted to be involved. For HLG, the broker estimates for required shares were spot on. Perhaps in that case additional quasi index trackers opted not to participate in their discretion and did here - or maybe the estimates were in aggregate just wrong - I just don't know.

[Muse]

What is also kinda interesting is to look at the number of shares traded in the closing match but equally important adjust session (when off market agreements are reported).

TRA
Closing match: 1.902m shares
Off market trades: 1.294m shares (40.5% total)
Total: 3.197m

Gentrack
Closing match: 1.174m
Off market: 2.601m (68.9%)
Total: 3.776m

GTK had a fantastic run - finished its pop at a high. Turners mirrored Hallenstein Glassons, with its intraday peak 2 days prior to the final close before inclusion.

edit: actually see TRA hit 4.85 intraday on 4 december.

[Muse]

Buyers
Buy Quantity
Prices


3
100,924
$5.100


2
723,506
$4.900


1
1,297
$4.860


2
788,985
$4.800


1
2,512
$4.790


1
300,000
$4.730


1
63
$4.700


1
9,319
$4.650


1
3,230
$4.640


3
87,000
$4.600


16
2,016,836






Prices
Sell Quantity
Sellers


$4.290
9,582
1


$4.300
80,000
1


$4.310
50,000
1


$4.320
50,000
1


$4.330
50,000
1


$4.340
4,002
1


$4.350
50,000
1


$4.360
50,000
1


$4.370
25,000
1


$4.400
25,000
1



393,584
10






I think this post is a worthy one to unpick there was some off thread discussion on why people would lob such low sell orders in the face of high buy orders during the 15 minute pre close session leading up to the closing match / closing auction.

From the NZX: "The Closing Auction occurs at a random time 30 seconds either side of 5:00pm. Like the opening auction, the closing auction is a single price print which becomes the close of the stock on the day. The Closing Auction algorithm is exactly the same as that used in the opening auction. It will compute the price at which it can clear the greatest amount of stock, and all bids and offers at, and overlapping, this level will execute at this, single closing print price."

Probably most DIY investors here are using some sort of platform that shows a market depth with buyers ranked high to low and sellers ranked low to high, each at their respective top 10 price points. But it certainly doesn't show everything. The sell depth above only had 393k of sellers whereas 1.9m shares wound up clearing in the closing auction (but worth calling the depth in the 15 minute period can change as orders are made or amended).

I wouldn't imagine those low sellers expected to their $4.30 -4.40 a share - they were trying to get certainty that that tranche of their holding would absolutely sell in the closing match at the higher prevailing weighted close price. And then I'd imagine some had tranches of shares they were more relaxed about not moving placed at higher price points.

For most retail investors they don't need to participate in the closing match as the liquidity is there to sell at anytime in the lead up to inclusion, and indeed, sometimes at better prices as in the case of TRA/HLG (but not GTK). But I imagine that for traders who had purchased personally meaningful holdings, & were determined to sell into the closing match & wanted certainty it would transact in order limit to potential post inclusion weakness, might look to place sell orders at a lower level than they want or ultimately expect to achieve to ensure they are in overlap during the closing auction. They might not expect to get that price - but that's the risk they take when clicking the button. In theory it'll have an impact on the match price, but given the sheer volume and weight of the ETFs buying and large holders selling, might not move the dial much, but will depend on how comfortable they are with the quantum of shares needing to be purchased and what the depth is looking like.

Anyway, just some random thoughts, and in the spirit of discussion around special events like these index inclusions. Interested in other people's perspectives as each one of these is a new learning opportunity.

[see weed]

I think this post is a worthy one to unpick there was some off thread discussion on why people would lob such low sell orders in the face of high buy orders during the 15 minute pre close session leading up to the closing match / closing auction.

From the NZX: "The Closing Auction occurs at a random time 30 seconds either side of 5:00pm. Like the opening auction, the closing auction is a single price print which becomes the close of the stock on the day. The Closing Auction algorithm is exactly the same as that used in the opening auction. It will compute the price at which it can clear the greatest amount of stock, and all bids and offers at, and overlapping, this level will execute at this, single closing print price."

Probably most DIY investors here are using some sort of platform that shows a market depth with buyers ranked high to low and sellers ranked low to high, each at their respective top 10 price points. But it certainly doesn't show everything. The sell depth above only had 393k of sellers whereas 1.9m shares wound up clearing in the closing auction (but worth calling the depth in the 15 minute period can change as orders are made or amended).

I wouldn't imagine those low sellers expected to their $4.30 -4.40 a share - they were trying to get certainty that that tranche of their holding would absolutely sell in the closing match at the higher prevailing weighted close price. And then I'd imagine some had tranches of shares they were more relaxed about not moving placed at higher price points.

For most retail investors they don't need to participate in the closing match as the liquidity is there to sell at anytime in the lead up to inclusion, and indeed, sometimes at better prices as in the case of TRA/HLG (but not GTK). But I imagine that for traders who had purchased personally meaningful holdings, & were determined to sell into the closing match & wanted certainty it would transact in order limit to potential post inclusion weakness, might look to place sell orders at a lower level than they want or ultimately expect to achieve to ensure they are in overlap during the closing auction. They might not expect to get that price - but that's the risk they take when clicking the button. In theory it'll have an impact on the match price, but given the sheer volume and weight of the ETFs buying and large holders selling, might not move the dial much, but will depend on how comfortable they are with the quantum of shares needing to be purchased and what the depth is looking like.

Anyway, just some random thoughts, and in the spirit of discussion around special events like these index inclusions. Interested in other people's perspectives as each one of these is a new learning opportunity.Yes you are right. I had 2 sell orders in the box showing and knowing it would sell at a much higher price but wanted to make sure they would all sell all on close and not have half sold and the other half not sold as happened to me the day before.

[winner69]

All the excitment and dismay of being included or kicked off an index really just shows how absurd the concept of market indices is

They fail on at least two counts. They represent little value to investors in terms of purpose, and also they do not represent the market.

And what does say being in the NZX50 do …Synlait for instance got included after it had ‘won’ but got kicked out when it became a loser. Essentially Synlait was a drag on the performance of the NZX50 …almost like by buying high selling low lol

[alokdhir]

TRA today should trade weak ...looking for sub $ 4.30 sometime in this week ...

[bull....]

TRA today should trade weak ...looking for sub $ 4.30 sometime in this week ...

yes be interesting. Now we are back to fundamentals on the company and not momentum based trading.

anyway fundamentals we are talking about car segment as other segments not much growth in them worthy of mention
to me they had tailwind of covid which reduced supply of new cars and caused demand for used cars which pushed up prices allowing tra to boost margins last 3 yrs. this has gone now
the last yr they had clean car discount scheme which pushes prices further up boosting there margins again. this ends this week i believe as govt ends the scheme.
NZ in recession demand is slowing although used car sales and prices holding up for now. i dont see this continuing far into next yr. why people will hold onto car longer now due to cost of living constraints and turners have said market has shifted , demand now at lower price points which reinforces this narrative of mine.

[Rawz]

yes be interesting. Now we are back to fundamentals on the company and not momentum based trading.

anyway fundamentals we are talking about car segment as other segments not much growth in them worthy of mention
to me they had tailwind of covid which reduced supply of new cars and caused demand for used cars which pushed up prices allowing tra to boost margins last 3 yrs. this has gone now
the last yr they had clean car discount scheme which pushes prices further up boosting there margins again. this ends this week i believe as govt ends the scheme.
NZ in recession demand is slowing although used car sales and prices holding up for now. i dont see this continuing far into next yr. why people will hold onto car longer now due to cost of living constraints and turners have said market has shifted , demand now at lower price points which reinforces this narrative of mine.

A lot of cars TRA get they have to sell..
Margins may reduce thou i agree there.

However the good thing with TRA is they have the finance division which should show NIM growth over the coming years.

Overall modest eps and dps growth should continue imo

[Baa_Baa]

the last yr they had clean car discount scheme which pushes prices further up boosting there margins again. this ends this week i believe as govt ends the scheme.

In what way, how, was the CCD "boosting their margins"?

[Ggcc]

yes be interesting. Now we are back to fundamentals on the company and not momentum based trading.

anyway fundamentals we are talking about car segment as other segments not much growth in them worthy of mention
to me they had tailwind of covid which reduced supply of new cars and caused demand for used cars which pushed up prices allowing tra to boost margins last 3 yrs. this has gone now
the last yr they had clean car discount scheme which pushes prices further up boosting there margins again. this ends this week i believe as govt ends the scheme.
NZ in recession demand is slowing although used car sales and prices holding up for now. i dont see this continuing far into next yr. why people will hold onto car longer now due to cost of living constraints and turners have said market has shifted , demand now at lower price points which reinforces this narrative of mine.
I would be concerned if all Turners seemed to be was a sales yard, but their whole business model is somewhat protected from a recession. They move too many cars to not pick up on the trend fast. If cars at a higher price point are not moving they will offer car owners less for their cars until things start selling. I agree price may move south in short term

[bull....]

In what way, how, was the CCD "boosting their margins"?

CCD inhabited used car imports boosting prices of locally sourced stock. ie fatter margins almost straight away on all inventory on hand when it got introduced. With the cancellation used car imports should increase again boosting supply of cars on the market. ie 2CC and others CCd scheme was bad for them and good for turners.

[Rawz]

CCD inhabited used car imports boosting prices of locally sourced stock. ie fatter margins almost straight away on all inventory on hand when it got introduced. With the cancellation used car imports should increase again boosting supply of cars on the market. ie 2CC and others CCd scheme was bad for them and good for turners.

you are right if you mean the opposite of what you typed

[ronaldson]

incrementally subsiding now from Fridays close at $4.68. I predict $4.30 by the end of the week, and possibly sooner.

[alokdhir]

Everyone has become smarter after the HLG experience ....No wonder it cud not break above $ 4.80 ...lol :p

But happy to note that WE are a bunch of fast learners ....we know how to read between the lines of Gurus ...as sometimes they hide their real messages

[kiwikeith]

I just bought a car from Turners last weekend. It was a japanese hybrid taking advantage of the clean car discount while it lasts. I had told the salesman that I was not that happy that the dashboard was in japanese. He just sort of shrugged his shoulders. I bought the car anyway as it seemed what I wanted and was $2,000 cheaper than the higher mileage but same model and year car at the toyota dealer. When I got the car home I looked on youtube how to convert the dashboard display from japanese to English. I said to the wife I don't think this will work, otherwise Turners would have done it on all their imports. Less than one minute later my dashboard was in English! I am amazed Turners does not do it itself and nor did they bother with putting the car clock on the right time. Overall though I was happy with my purchase.

[Perky]

That will be bloody TINA’s fault.
There Is No Adjustments

[Muse]

As the closing match and subsequent processing of off-market transfer forms is a unique time to move meaningful blocks of shares for large holders, coupled with we may still be in an open period for insiders, dont be surprised if we get some SSH or director/officer notices.

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423731/409831.pdf

Not surprised to see this - Todd mentioned one of Grant's goals was the NZX50 entry - so no problem with him enjoying some of the spoils of that achievement. Still owns a big whack.

[bull....]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423731/409831.pdf

baker sold some eh . you were right muse. anyway he will get some good xmas turkey with that sale

[alokdhir]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423731/409831.pdf

Not surprised to see this - Todd mentioned one of Grant's goals was the NZX50 entry - so no problem with him enjoying some of the spoils of that achievement. Still owns a big whack.

Not very impressed as thats meaningful dilution of holding and show of poor confidence in future growth of SP ...sold as got opportunity to sell in numbers 450,000 ...wow

[Muse]

Not very impressed as thats meaningful dilution of holding and show of poor confidence in future growth of SP ...sold as got opportunity to sell in numbers 450,000 ...wow

was 7% of his shares
frame it a different way - he kept 93%
'twas inevitable we would start seeing these. if we had a magic wand we wouldn't, but that's investing, & take these as a suite of things.

[alokdhir]

was 7% of his shares
frame it a different way - he kept 93%
'twas inevitable we would start seeing these. if we had a magic wand we wouldn't, but that's investing, & take these as a suite of things.

Compare that with MFT chairmans Bruce ...he almost adds to billion's worth he already has ...but then TRA is no MFT ...still a fine company no doubt ...he chooses to cash in rather then let his holdings grow !!

PS : Also he spoiled Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...I was looking forward to that ...lol

[Muse]

Compare that with MFT chairmans Bruce ...he almost adds to billion's worth he already has ...but then TRA is no MFT ...still a fine company no doubt ...he chooses to cash in rather then let his holdings grow !!

PS : Also he spoiled Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...I was looking forward to that ...lol

Well fingers crossed for ya that he buys the shares back for less than he just sold them in the weeks or months ahead. I’d expect there will be a fair bit of that going on lol

Re 5 bucks the pathway is there (I reckon) - just needs a bit of time and journey may not be linear.

[percy]

Good on Grant.
Most probably added to his Ferrari collection.
Could turn out to be a better investment than Turners' shares.

[winner69]

Funny day today

My Food Bag Director buys millions of shares last Friday and share price rockets up today

Turners Chairman sells a couple million bucks worth and share price sinks today

[Muse]

Good on Grant.
Most probably added to his Ferrari collection.
Could turn out to be a better investment than Turners' shares.

Better not turn up as a 2CC substantial holder… :)

[percy]

Better not turn up as a 2CC substantial holder… :)

Yeah right.?
Just thinking of what Sharetrader/talk posters would have to say....
Basil Beagle would go right off his head [again].....
W69 and BlackPete are just warming up too.....
Think I would be the only person to welcome him at 2CC.Trouble is buying $2mil of 2cc shares would send their share price to over $2.00.
{mmmmmmmmmmNot a bad idea,I could forget Nissans and think of a Ferrari myself] Bring it on......lol

[777]

I just bought a car from Turners last weekend. It was a japanese hybrid taking advantage of the clean car discount while it lasts. I had told the salesman that I was not that happy that the dashboard was in japanese. He just sort of shrugged his shoulders. I bought the car anyway as it seemed what I wanted and was $2,000 cheaper than the higher mileage but same model and year car at the toyota dealer. When I got the car home I looked on youtube how to convert the dashboard display from japanese to English. I said to the wife I don't think this will work, otherwise Turners would have done it on all their imports. Less than one minute later my dashboard was in English! I am amazed Turners does not do it itself and nor did they bother with putting the car clock on the right time. Overall though I was happy with my purchase.

Disappointing. They could have done better than that. Salesman due for a kick in the proverbial for an attitude like that.

[Snoopy]

I just bought a car from Turners last weekend. It was a japanese hybrid taking advantage of the clean car discount while it lasts. I had told the salesman that I was not that happy that the dashboard was in japanese. He just sort of shrugged his shoulders. I bought the car anyway as it seemed what I wanted and was $2,000 cheaper than the higher mileage but same model and year car at the toyota dealer. When I got the car home I looked on youtube how to convert the dashboard display from japanese to English. I said to the wife I don't think this will work, otherwise Turners would have done it on all their imports. Less than one minute later my dashboard was in English! I am amazed Turners does not do it itself and nor did they bother with putting the car clock on the right time. Overall though I was happy with my purchase.


Not too surprising. You have to consider the possibility of such vehicles catching the eye of Japanese people on holiday in New Zealand. If those tourists like the car they might just buy it from Turners and have it shipped back to Japan!

What is the link to the youtube video of which you speak BTW?

SNOOPY

[RTM]

Yeah right.?
Just thinking of what Sharetrader/talk posters would have to say....
Basil Beagle would go right off his head [again].....
W69 and BlackPete are just warming up too.....
Think I would be the only person to welcome him at 2CC.Trouble is buying $2mil of 2cc shares would send their share price to over $2.00.
{mmmmmmmmmmNot a bad idea,I could forget Nissans and think of a Ferrari myself] Bring it on......lol

You could think about a Ferrari if you wanted one Percy. Guy along the road has one...doesn't drive it much.

[Snoopy]

You could think about a Ferrari if you wanted one Percy. Guy along the road has one...doesn't drive it much.


As Percy has previously explained, his problem isn't owning a Ferrari. His problem is looking like a gibbon when he gets out.

SNOOPY

[percy]

As Percy has previously explained, his problem isn't owning a Ferrari. His problem is looking like a gibbon when he gets out.

SNOOPY

Yes Percy is here in his Ferrari.
Arrived 15 minutes ago.
However takes him half an hour to get out of it.
If he is not out in an hour we better dig him out.
As SNOOPY rightly pointed out getting into a Ferrari/Porsche is a bit of an issue,but getting out is near impossible..lol

[kiwikeith]

Not too surprising. You have to consider the possibility of such vehicles catching the eye of Japanese people on holiday in New Zealand. If those tourists like the car they might just buy it from Turners and have it shipped back to Japan!

What is the link to the youtube video of which you speak BTW?

SNOOPY

Japanese to English for generation prius 2017 onwards (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJIqXJO5Cso&t=47s)

[Muse]

Yes Percy is here in his Ferrari.
Arrived 15 minutes ago.
However takes him half an hour to get out of it.
If he is not out in an hour we better dig him out.
As SNOOPY rightly pointed out getting into a Ferrari/Porsche is a bit of an issue,but getting out is near impossible..lol

I didn't think you looked too bad exiting that Lambo you test drove
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/h6udr_7eg4I

Might have to stick with the Lambo...license plate: PERCY$

[percy]

I didn't think you looked too bad exiting that Lambo you test drove
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/h6udr_7eg4I

Might have to stick with the Lambo...license plate: PERCY$

That was only after a 5 minute test drive.
The challenge is getting out after a three hour drive.
After crawling on all fours standing up is near impossible.
What a great clip..Worth a hundred words.

[alokdhir]

Checked GTK for SSH but none so far ...so no insider selling there ( so far ) ...maybe the reason for bigger POP there !!!

TRA is touted as a strong yield stock at super attractive metrics with future growth in yield and SP ...if thats not enough to stay invested then hardly confidence inspiring ...

My trading range estimates for next few months $ 4 -$ 4.30 !!!

[bull....]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423747/409853.pdfmore director selling.
these guys smart they know they have to sell some into index funds at overpriced stock value.

[alokdhir]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/423747/409853.pdfmore director selling.
these guys smart they know they have to sell some into index funds at overpriced stock value.

Reinforces my view that it will underperform next year !! May look at it again around $ 4 level if possible ...

[Rawz]

These guys are selling very small portions. In this case 4%

I wouldnt read too much into it.

[alokdhir]

These guys are selling very small portions. In this case 4%

I wouldnt read too much into it.

Depends upon your perspective and bias ...like I said if they think cashing out at $ 4.68 is prudent to earning 8% gross etc etc then maybe they are right that at that time it was right time to unload ...Yes like Muse said they may plan to come back when its more opportune ...ie they expect to get that chance then why not US think that way too ...get out and try to come back when the time is more opportune ...like more knowledgeable people doing ...surely they know better then US or maybe only me ...:D

PS : If nothing else they sure did spoil Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...my bad luck as I hoped to enjoy it ...boat and drinks and stocks

[bull....]

stock overvalued based on coming slowdown in used car sales

[alokdhir]

stock overvalued based on coming slowdown in used car sales

So what is good buy price in your view ?

[Rawz]

Depends upon your perspective and bias ...like I said if they think cashing out at $ 4.68 is prudent to earning 8% gross etc etc then maybe they are right that at that time it was right time to unload ...Yes like Muse said they may plan to come back when its more opportune ...ie they expect to get that chance then why not US think that way too ...get out and try to come back when the time is more opportune ...like more knowledgeable people doing ...surely they know better then US or maybe only me ...:D

PS : If nothing else they sure did spoil Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...my bad luck as I hoped to enjoy it ...boat and drinks and stocks

Think its different for them as a large % of their net worth will be in TRA. Vs us bugger all. So if they are taking some funds off the table to invest elsewhere and diversify or buy a new house or whatever then no worries in my book.

[Snoopy]

PS : If nothing else they sure did spoil Mr B's $ 5 boat party ...my bad luck as I hoped to enjoy it ...boat and drinks and stocks


You could always go for a second grade celebration. Squeeze a lifebuoy over your beer belly, and just jump off the wharf holding a can of "V" ;-P

SNOOPY

[alokdhir]

In W69 book and mind ...right strategy was SELL all TRA and BUY BRM ....lol ...but he never gives his true mind or thoughts ...U need to second guess it ...I think I have made my guess ...:p

[alokdhir]

You could always go for a second grade celebration. Squeeze a lifebuoy over your beer belly, and just jump off the wharf holding a can of "V" ;-P

SNOOPY

Mr B wont be happy with that suggestion but I see the humour in it ...:p

[alokdhir]

Feeble attempt to keep SP above $ 4.50 seems to have run out of ammunition ...irrespective 6 Cents divvy coming for buyers next month !!

$ 4.30 is reasonable qty buyer and then $ 4 has a big qty buyer ...who can that be ??

[alokdhir]

Any new investment in NZG / FNZ / MDZ will surely will be new investment in TRA now onwards ....superlife default KiwiSaver has big allocation to NZG ...new contributions to their KiwiSaver funds will be continuous source of buyers in TRA now onwards ...so almost sure demand only if supply is not from INSIDERS trying to buy new models of Ferrari ...:confused:

[bull....]

So what is good buy price in your view ?

a comparison is some of there like companies in aus and us . what they are valued at. anyway like i say before if price went from 3.50 to 4.68 on index inclusion momentum how much of that is justified on profit upgrade. your price reasonable

[alokdhir]

a comparison is some of there like companies in aus and us . what they are valued at. anyway like i say before if price went from 3.50 to 4.68 on index inclusion momentum how much of that is justified on profit upgrade. your price reasonable

Be candid ...state a number where U will be buyer again mate

[percy]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/423747
Matthew becoming a Ferrari owner too.?

[ronaldson]

Feeble attempt to keep SP above $ 4.50 seems to have run out of ammunition ...irrespective 6 Cents divvy coming for buyers next month !!

$ 4.30 is reasonable qty buyer and then $ 4 has a big qty buyer ...who can that be ??

Buyer currently at $4.30 is me under a couple of hats, retrieving shares sold last week at $4.75. The record date for the quarterly dividend is 9 January so should catch that under DRIP in due course if I fill early.

Grant clearly could have sold more, and it doesn't seem other insiders were moved to exit all or part of their holdings on the bubble. Yield is good at that price, and underlying prospects for growth are still reasonable, so I am dipping a toe in the water again. Entries with any listed holding are always a bit fraught but I am willing to be proved wrong.

[alokdhir]

Buyer currently at $4.30 is me under a couple of hats, retrieving shares sold last week at $4.75. The record date for the quarterly dividend is 9 January so should catch that under DRIP in due course if I fill early.

Grant clearly could have sold more, and it doesn't seem other insiders were moved to exit all or part of their holdings on the bubble. Yield is good at that price, and underlying prospects for growth are still reasonable, so I am dipping a toe in the water again. Entries with any listed holding are always a bit fraught but I am willing to be proved wrong.

The way things going U will be fed very soon ...maybe before weekend mate !!

[ronaldson]

The way things going U will be fed very soon ...maybe before weekend mate !!

Possibly, but it will likely take a bit of time considering anyone and their dog could have taken $4.68 at close on friday, and even marginally more earlier in that week.

I could have been more pessimistic but then you may miss out on a fill altogether. This share is historically a steady performer so I will sleep at night regardless.

Really, the market is now waiting for someone to say where the new floor price is and I am expressing my view.

[alokdhir]

Possibly, but it will likely take a bit of time considering anyone and their dog could have taken $4.68 at close on friday, and even marginally more earlier in that week.

I could have been more pessimistic but then you may miss out on a fill altogether. This share is historically a steady performer so I will sleep at night regardless.

Really, the market is now waiting for someone to say where the new floor price is and I am expressing my view.

Your floor is $ 4.30 ...my upper range of next few months / possibly more is $ 4.30 ...no doubt it has many admirers for its steady yield etc ...so did HLG ...If what Bull says materialises that their business also comes under stress like HLG then this can easily go back to breakout point of $ 3.80 ...very possible ...though I reckon after seeing bad market reaction to insiders selling in the pop ...very soon they will try to talk it up

[IAK]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/423747
Matthew becoming a Ferrari owner too.?
Old Matt building a new deck?

[Jaa]

To change the subject away from the rather tiresome ball by ball analysis has anyone tried Mevo?

How does it compare to a Turners subscription? Is it a reliable enough replacement for owning a second hand car?

[Perky]

Yeah I’ve used Mevo…works for me as I live inside their free parking drop off area in central Auckland.
Pretty good value $22 to $30 hr for electric car Tesla, polestar Bydd etc. Insurance excess similar to a rental. What makes it good value is it’s free to park in most places in the city…anyone been to a Wilson car park will see how car hire + free parking in central city is value.
Can take a car after 6pm and only pay for 2hrs but hold overnight..up to 200km limit.
I read they are crowdfunding to expand and not yet profitable
I would drive their cars but not own their shares lol

You can see on app where all the cars are…on Saturday I wanted a car but about 10 of them sitting at akld airport. You can do single 1 way to airport and pay drop off fee.
If 4 or 5 people travelling probably see why this is popular .

was article free on milford website from BusinessDesk but probably paywalled now.
https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/finance/mevo-on-track-for-4-million-capital-raise

Havent looked at car subscription so can’t comment but seems like a good idea when you need a car for a set time ie 1 month. Pretty common overeseas but nz mentality is just to own cars…this might change I think overtime and as younger generation who used to subscribing for all sorts of **** start getting to driving age.

Just my thoughts JAA

[stoploss]

To change the subject away from the rather tiresome ball by ball analysis has anyone tried Mevo?

How does it compare to a Turners subscription? Is it a reliable enough replacement for owning a second hand car?
$ 150 for a TSLA for 24 hours. Great if you want to have a decent test drive in a car .....

[bull....]

• Following a month-on-month deterioration in October 2023, thenumber of auto loan accounts in arrears recommenced a generalupward trend that has emerged since the pandemic. As at October2023, auto loan accounts in arrears are 251% higher than October 2019 (i.e.,the pre-pandemic equivalent). Year-over-year, the number of accounts inarrears are 35.0% higher than October 2022. :scared:

hope tra not affected too much

equifax data dec update

[Rawz]

• Following a month-on-month deterioration in October 2023, thenumber of auto loan accounts in arrears recommenced a generalupward trend that has emerged since the pandemic. As at October2023, auto loan accounts in arrears are 251% higher than October 2019 (i.e.,the pre-pandemic equivalent). Year-over-year, the number of accounts inarrears are 35.0% higher than October 2022. :scared:

hope tra not affected too much

equifax data dec update

Increase off record lows? Or now at record highs? These percentages are meaningless unless some more context is provided around where the arrears sit in the long term avg

[bull....]

Increase off record lows? Or now at record highs? These percentages are meaningless unless some more context is provided around where the arrears sit in the long term avg

Month-over-month for October 2023, the number of auto loan accounts inarrears have increased by +11.2%. A significant increase in the number ofaccounts in early stage arrears (1-29 DPD) was observed, up +25.1% monthover-month, somewhat offset by a -9.2% reduction in 30-59DPD arrears.

just a reflection of the cost of living crisis underway. so i guess its up on the base level which existed before the crisis satrted

[Rawz]

Auto loans arrears rates historically creep up during the Christmas period. People buy hams and presents instead of making their car payments I guess.

Arrears will be going up for all asset funders but off a low base. Definitely tough times for a lot out there including SMEs

[percy]

Hybrid cars in Japan on track to exceed half of all sales.

Canada confirms all new vehicles sold in 2035 must be electric

[ronaldson]

Still single buyers at the close in the low $4.50's despite an absence of depth support under that figure. Takes time after the Index inclusion flurry for market pricing to rebalance.

"Patience" is the word just now for former holders like me desiring to reenter.

[bull....]

Still single buyers at the close in the low $4.50's despite an absence of depth support under that figure. Takes time after the Index inclusion flurry for market pricing to rebalance.

"Patience" is the word just now for former holders like me desiring to reenter.

i have witnessed that buyer come in at the end of each day to push price up on close too.

[alokdhir]

i have witnessed that buyer come in at the end of each day to push price up on close too.

He has done it twice so far ...big order to mop all till 4.53 and next day 4.54 ...maybe trying to infuse confidence in buyers waiting to get it

[winner69]

He has done it twice so far ...big order to mop all till 4.53 and next day 4.54 ...maybe trying to infuse confidence in buyers waiting to get it

Hope he realises today has an early close lol I

[alokdhir]

Hope he realises today has an early close lol I

Today will be best close ...as that will stay for few days ...open only on Wednesday ...it will keep encouraging people to take the plunge now ...9th Jan ex date is adding pressure too ...many will succumb

PS : Also I dont expect it to be anyone's Picks for next year ...not from these levels so your dream of that mayn't materialise buddy

[winner69]

Today will be best close ...as that will stay for few days ...open only on Wednesday ...it will keep encouraging people to take the plunge now ...9th Jan ex date is adding pressure too ...many will succumb

A couple of inclusions in Brokers Tips will fix that

Watch Herald this weekend

[alokdhir]

A couple of inclusions in Brokers Tips will fix that

Watch Herald this weekend

I will ...and I think I wont find TRA there ...MFT / SUM maybe ...but u never know ...maybe can choose it as steady yield stock not money spinner

[winner69]

Bugger TRA not in NBR hot stocks for 2024

Tina not seduced them …sack her immediately

[mike2020]

HGH got a pick! Maybe they see it so low by the beginning of next year it can only go up!

[Rawz]

Bit of a mixed bag

[alokdhir]

Bugger TRA not in NBR hot stocks for 2024

Tina not seduced them …sack her immediately

Told u so mate ...but U pay more attention to other channel mates ...lol :p

[alokdhir]

HGH got a pick! Maybe they see it so low by the beginning of next year it can only go up!

Cud be the reason ...as how it ends matter ...but start also count for reference

See how many KFL stocks are on horizon for stupendous 2024 ...that shud make KFL my top pick for 2024 ...10% discount shud vanish by year end ...so extra help .

[Antipodean]

I will ...and I think I wont find TRA there ...MFT / SUM maybe ...but u never know ...maybe can choose it as steady yield stock not money spinner

~7% gross div and about the same in cap growth (~4.85 from here) would be far better outcome that most of the broker picks averages, might pay for them to pay attention here heh.

[alokdhir]

~7% gross div and about the same in cap growth (~4.85 from here) would be far better outcome that most of the broker picks averages, might pay for them to pay attention here heh.

Agree with your thoughts ...better than putting GNE / CEN type yield safety now ....but MFT can go to $ 100 in a year ...so can SUM can go to $ 14 + ...that will easily beat 7+5 = 12% u talking about ...thats why they chose MFT a lot

[see weed]

Today will be best close ...as that will stay for few days ...open only on Wednesday ...it will keep encouraging people to take the plunge now ...9th Jan ex date is adding pressure too ...many will succumb

PS : Also I dont expect it to be anyone's Picks for next year ...not from these levels so your dream of that mayn't materialise buddy
Comparing two completely differently companies and there dividends. TRA and HLG my favourite 2 companies at the moment. TRA will pay 2 divs to the value of approx 13c total for Jan and April. HLG will pay one div in April of approx 20c to 24c. So 10,000 shares in HLG at $5.50c will cost me $55,000 and a div of approx $2,000 to $2,400. But if I put that $55,000 into TRA shares at $4.50c will get me 12,223 shares and divs to the value of $1589. Just a passing thought.

[alokdhir]

Comparing two completely differently companies and there dividends. TRA and HLG my favourite 2 companies at the moment. TRA will pay 2 divs to the value of approx 13c total for Jan and April. HLG will pay one div in April of approx 20c to 24c. So 10,000 shares in HLG at $5.50c will cost me $55,000 and a div of approx $2,000 to $2,400. But if I put that $55,000 into TRA shares at $4.50c will get me 12,223 shares and divs to the value of $1589. Just a passing thought.

Only catch maybe HLG pays 15 cents ...but I got your point that HLG scores for u ...but always keep in mind HLG is going thru tough times and TRA is going thru good times ...on philosophical note ...bad changes to good and good can become bad ...so HLG u pick I reckon

[see weed]

Only catch maybe HLG pays 15 cents ...but I got your point that HLG scores for u ...but always keep in mind HLG is going thru tough times and TRA is going thru good times ...on philosophical note ...bad changes to good and good can become bad ...so HLG u pick I reckon
Actually, might do both, jump into TRA grab the Jan div and wait to see the HLG Feb. update on the busy Christmas period.;)

[RTM]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-one-wants-used-evs-050011036.html

For those interested.

[ronaldson]

Not many wanting to capitulate with this stock despite the index entry "bubble" now being in the rear view mirror.

I may be fishing too deep at $4.30 to achieve a reentry currently, at least until TRA goes ex dividend early in January.

[Antipodean]

Could be all those timing the market on this one are out, and those who favour time in the market are now in and looking forward to next year.

[percy]

The land at Worsleys Road,Cashmere Hills owned by Turners' Oxford Finance Ltd has been sold to CDL Land [a CDL company]
for $5.53 mil.
The land is likely to be divided into 60 sections.

[winner69]

The land at Worsleys Road,Cashmere Hills owned by Turners' Oxford Finance Ltd has been sold to CDL Land [a CDL company]
for $5.53 mil.
The land is likely to be divided into 60 sections.

Good finally sold …now use cash to build real things ….and put more Tina ads on the telly

[percy]

I have recently been to two motor sport movies.
Jackie Stewart .
Ferrari.
Both were excellent.

[winner69]

I have recently been to two motor sport movies.
Jackie Stewart .
Ferrari.
Both were excellent.

That Jackie Stewart film was really cool eh Percy

Must seek out the Ferrari one

[percy]

That Jackie Stewart film was really cool eh Percy

Must seek out the Ferrari one

Yes the Ferrari movie is a must see.
Google Alfonso de Portago.
You may also enjoy this behind the scenes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuH7G4N-dYU&pp=ygUNZmVycmFyaSBtb3ZpZQ%3D%3D
I have ordered the book "Ferrari the man and the machine" by Brock Yates from Amazon.Just over $30.

[Sideshow Bob]

DRP strike price at $4.44.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/424774

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/425976 :cool:

Turners upgrades FY24 profit guidance for its fourth consecutive record result

Turners Automotive Group Limited (NZX/ASX: TRA) announces today an upgrade to its FY24 guidance to a net profit before tax of at least NZ$48m, ahead of the NZ$45.5m achieved in FY23. Now an NZX top 50 company, this will be Turners’ fourth consecutive record profit result.

With more certainty around the full year result the forecast dividend has been increased to NZ25 cents per share (+9% YoY), up from prior guidance of NZ24cps. Turners is approaching a decade of sustainable dividend growth, with an 11% compound annual dividend growth rate since FY15.

The 3Q24 dividend will be paid in late March 2024 with the final dividend for FY24 to be paid in late July 2024. Dividends will be fully imputed and the Directors expect that the Turners’ Dividend Reinvestment Plan (DRP) will continue to apply to both these dividends.

The NZ used car market and the Turners' business continue to demonstrate strong resilience despite a broader economy under pressure. Meanwhile, stabilisation in the official cash rate (OCR) is turning from a headwind into a tailwind for the Finance business.

More detail on Turners’ individual business segments can be found on the following page.

The company will report its full year results in late May. More detail on individual segments can be found on the following page.

[Rawz]

What a great company

[percy]

An excellent profit upgrade.

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/425976/412324.pdf

[Gerard]

Wonder if this is a change of dividend date (announcement says late March), verses last year when the 3rd qtr dividend was paid late April.

[Muse]

that's great and am relieved to see them navigating the clean car regulatory turbulence at the end of last year so well.

[winner69]

First half NPBT up 10% but in spite of ‘head winds turning into tail winds’ and NIM getting better second half NPBT is only going to be about the same as last year. If they had done another 10% on H223 this year then NPBT would have been $50m

Oh well, Todd can still dine out on his $50m target a bit longer and let his raves keep punters excited

I'm a bit underwhelmed .suppose another cent on the dividend will keep me happy

[Sideshow Bob]

Market likes it though Winner.

Up 3.1% already.

Although 2CC up 4.9%.......;)

[ronaldson]

Wonder if this is a change of dividend date (announcement says late March), verses last year when the 3rd qtr dividend was paid late April.

This will be to ensure the third quarter dividend is paid in the current tax year where the rate for Trusts is 33c in the $ compared to the 39c in the $ intended to be applied from 1 April 2024, given major shareholders ( who also have Board representation ) are holders via such structures.

[Rawz]

First half NPBT up 10% but in spite of ‘head winds turning into tail winds’ and NIM getting better second half NPBT is only going to be about the same as last year. If they had done another 10% on H223 this year then NPBT would have been $50m

Oh well, Todd can still dine out on his $50m target a bit longer and let his raves keep punters excited

I'm a bit underwhelmed .suppose another cent on the dividend will keep me happy

Its pretty good in tough times, Winner

Its not like it priced for huge % gains in earnings

[Muse]

The NZD/JPY cross rate keeps inching higher and higher - at historic highs. Will be a boost to those 2nd hand dealers importing stock ex japan.

[Ggcc]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/recidivist-burglar-stole-every-car-key-on-turners-lot-spree-costs-nearly-500k/5REV5OZS3NFVJNHYLYMJCDSJNA/

[Grimy]

Not paywalled now.

[Antipodean]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/recidivist-burglar-stole-every-car-key-on-turners-lot-spree-costs-nearly-500k/5REV5OZS3NFVJNHYLYMJCDSJNA/

November 5-6, 2022

[Ggcc]

November 5-6, 2022
Yeah it happened ages ago. I just saw the news article yesterday for the 1st time. It shows our system is too soft on criminals.

[Jonette]

there was a trade at 2pm of over 200,000 shares at $4.70. Interesting timing, who?

[percy]

Maybe retiring director Martin Berry selling part of his 500,000 holding.?

[Antipodean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwafupoVq6A

[percy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwafupoVq6A

Excellent ....................
Thanks for the link.

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/427305

Turners Q3 Dividend Declared
Turners Automotive Group (NZX/ASX: TRA) is pleased to announce that directors have declared a Q3 FY24 dividend of 6 cents per share (fully imputed) to be paid on 27 March 2024. The record date is 12 March 2024.

[777]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/427305

Turners Q3 Dividend Declared
Turners Automotive Group (NZX/ASX: TRA) is pleased to announce that directors have declared a Q3 FY24 dividend of 6 cents per share (fully imputed) to be paid on 27 March 2024. The record date is 12 March 2024.

Great they are paying out in March instead of April. Helps those holding in a Trust.

[mike2020]

Oddly 4700x0.08=37.6 or exactly 8% at 4x6 cents plus supp and imput. Possibility of better than that in Divis too. 8% plus has been my criteria for divs for a while now.

[pierre]

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/03/12/the-story-behind-tina-from-turners-and-why-the-ad-works/

[winner69]

Turners monthly market report says dealer to Public sales in February were more than 3% up on last year ...improvement on the 1.5% reported for January

Add on market share gains things must be going well at Turners

Certainty now that $50m npbt will be achieved in F24

Looking forward to profit upgrade just after Easter

Share price well over 5 bucks in April

[Antipodean]

$50m NPAT at current SP $4.70 is a P/E 8.28.
8% gross divvies on top.

Some say it is hard to find good value in NZX, others just know where to look.

[pierre]

I hope "Tina" is receiving some commission for the tremendous contribution she is making to Turners' results.

[winner69]

$50m NPAT at current SP $4.70 is a P/E 8.28.
8% gross divvies on top.

Some say it is hard to find good value in NZX, others just know where to look.

My bad Antipodean …it’s $50m npbt ….say $35m after tax

PE still 11/12 …great divie ….bright future

And exceptional value even at $4.70

[Snoopy]

I believe that Alaistair Petrie is the merely the NZ representative of the Ecuadorian Alvaro Noboa family, the people behind Bonita bananas. If you look at the biography of Alvaro Noboa.

https://www.alvaronoboa.com/en/biography/

it still says he has interests in New Zealand. Bartel Holdings was a significant shareholder in the old 'Turners Auctions' company, which when taken over by Dorchester, became the Turners business we know today. I know some of the public shareholding information says that Alaistair Petrie is the 100% shareholder of Bartel.

https://app.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/522612/shareholdings

But I think that is only in the sense that Petrie is the local nominee of the Alvaro Noboa family. Petrie took over this job from Michael Dossor who died in 2016. I don't recall any information on the Ecuadorians selling out since then. And being a shareholder from the Turners Auction days, I think I would remember if it had happened.


Interesting update on significant shareholder Bartel Holdings today
http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/428683/415472.pdf

At first glance it is just updating the shareholding with shares reinvested via the DRP. But look a bit closer:
"On 16 June 2023, Bartel Holdings, through an off market acquisition, purchased 470,000 shares for $1,630,900."

I wonder if they bought those shares from one of the directors selling down?

SNOOPY

[Snow Leopard]

....I wonder if they bought those shares from one of the directors selling down?

SNOOPY

Why wonder when you can look it up?

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/413212/396656.pdf

[Snoopy]

Why wonder when you can look it up?

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/413212/396656.pdf

Ah so it was a Paul Byrnes (former director) and Mary Mora (other shareholder) sell down. Thanks for that.

SNOOPY

[daveypnz]

Down on big volume. Any news?

[SCOTTY]

Down on big volume. Any news?

I sold some at 4.60/4.62 to fund my HGH rights purchase. Feel that the 5 dividend payments during the financial year ended 31st March has distorted (overstated) the yield going forward.

[RTM]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/429950/417179.pdf

Must be a decent sized deck.

[Sideshow Bob]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/TRA/429950/417179.pdf

Must be a decent sized deck.

He's no longer a director - https://www.nzx.com/announcements/426763

[RTM]

He's no longer a director - https://www.nzx.com/announcements/426763

No, but even so....must be a big deck !

[alokdhir]

If old director decides to sell all his holding in a " good long term yield paying " company ...should I be worried ?

Maybe nothing more to it then he just wanted out or needed cash or wanted his funds out of NZ !!!

Doesn't look good but doesn't make TRA less of a company for maybe longer term then his horizon

[Muse]

No, but even so....must be a big deck !

That’s what she said