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goodguy
17-12-2006, 08:58 AM
One of the nastiest shocks of the week was the arrival in the post of Dorchester's printed half-year report.
This revealed,for the first time if I remember correctly, a shocking drop in the important EPS figures - down an unexpected 33.8%.
Neither the chairman or the ceo made any reference to this....they couldn't have imagined that if they didn't mention it then shareholder would't notice, could they?
Shareholders are now left with the serious question of whether to hold onto the shares or whether the new regime may now carry on as they have started?
Comments please.

KJ
17-12-2006, 11:33 AM
Suggest that you read the other DPC thread-this is old news which was out about 6 weeks ago.I would keep well away from this stock until things change.It has been in a downtrend for a long time.

goodguy
17-12-2006, 01:30 PM
KJ, I did what you suggested but couldn't find any reference to big drop in EPS. Don't want to be a nuisance, but where exactly was it mentioned.

KJ
17-12-2006, 01:49 PM
Goodguy-If you knew their NPAT (came out early Nov)then you can obviously work it out.
I use Direct Broking-all the info is there-let me know if you do not follow.

tapman
17-12-2006, 02:25 PM
The only other threads I can find on DPC are 12 months old.

KJ
17-12-2006, 02:46 PM
Tapman-go to page 2-last post 10days ago.

tapman
17-12-2006, 03:33 PM
Found it. Thanks

goodguy
18-12-2006, 08:52 AM
KJ, To be able to work out the EPS you need to know the number of shares on issue and this wasn't given in the Nov announcement....hence the shock of some of us when the printed report arrived last week, and no comment about the big fall.
I definitely share your opinion on the company: what should we do for the best now?

Caesius
18-12-2006, 10:22 AM
Can't you find the number of shares on issue at NZX.com?

glennj
18-12-2006, 11:45 AM
Not sure what the fuss is about. Whilst the change in earnings per share is - 33.9% it is quite easy to see why from the short report.
If the abnormal and one offs are indeed abnormals and one offs then they won't recurr. Also the equity increased by approx 20% in August 2006 so it was up on the previous comparable period but had little time to generate earnings.

Quoting the chairman's report, "excluding abnormal and one-off costs,
Operating Profit for the six months is ahead of the same period last year"

I've got three small parcels of DPC and put the company in the category of should have done better.
The IRR's are ok at 8, 17 & 30% for the respective parcels. IMHO if they can sort a few things out DPC will be rerated upward.

Lawso
18-12-2006, 01:36 PM
quote:Suggest that you read the other DPC thread . . .
Yes, but this one has a much more appropriate title.

In his half-year report for Viking Capital on 4 Dec., Brent King noted the poor performance of DPC, in which VIK has a significant stake. "The recently announced mediocre result was the worst return on shareholders' funds for a half year in Dorchester's history," said BK. "The company is clearly underperforming . . ."

Meanwhile, in its first three months VIK achieved a return on sh'rs funds of 11.4%, due mainly I suppose to the sale of its 42B shares, more than compensating for DPC's poor effort.

At the last agm the new board and management had a lot to say about a "new era", "new vision" blah blah blah, and introduced the new logo with much fanfare.
But here's a funny thing. They made much of dumping the Olde English D emblem and replacing it with a new-look d. Somebody commented from the floor that the new d points backwards - fair comment I thought. Now, in a book of sterling silver hallmarks I've found the identical d, used to identify silver objects made in York in 1815!!. [B)]

KJ
18-12-2006, 02:44 PM
Also quoting from the AGM dated 23/8/06:
"already we are reaping the benefits with year to date results tracking well ahead of last year"....(Chairman)

"we are tracking towards a profit for 2007yr ahead of last yr in line with our goal of achieving a 20% return on shareholders funds"
...(new CEO)

These comments were made just before the H/Y results.Why would you want to invest?

In a LT downtrend with profit falling & management making the above statements.

A 20% return on shareholders funds equals NPAT for 2007 of $10.8m-don't think so!

blackcap
11-01-2007, 05:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by MoSteph

Wonder who just bought 400K worth... a keen bean...




Wonder who just sold the 400K worth.... a depry bean.....

Sorry MoSteph, not having a go at you, but it really depends on which way you look at it :)

Steve
15-01-2007, 01:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by MoSteph

Wonder who just bought 400K worth... a keen bean...

It appears that it was VIK who was buying

shasta
15-01-2007, 08:07 PM
VIK getting close to the 10% blocking mark, which would mean 3 separate blocking stakes in DPC, & surely something's got to give(same situation as RBC).

BK wanted a seat on the board & moving towards a 20% stake would all but seal it.

Interesting times ahead...

Steve
17-01-2007, 01:15 PM
Anyone else see the irony in BK selling out of DPC @ $4 and now he is buying back in through VIK at almost half the price?! CLASSIC!

blackcap
17-01-2007, 06:07 PM
quote:Originally posted by Steve

Anyone else see the irony in BK selling out of DPC @ $4 and now he is buying back in through VIK at almost half the price?! CLASSIC!

Smart operator!!!

But he didnt sell out at $4, more like $3.

Then again still not bad :)

Steve
04-02-2007, 11:19 AM
Something could be happening behind the scenes...

Stakes get higher for Dorchester Pacific (http://www.stuff.co.nz/3950770a13.html)
New players are waiting on the sidelines to join the deepening fray for control of listed finance company Dorchester Pacific.

The Sunday Star-Times understands a significant investor described as "credible and semi-institutional" has made inquiries about buying the 18.07% Dorchester stake owned by Rod Petricevic.

Market soundings were made in mid-December, when Petricevic's company Bridgecorp was arranging to roll over a loan it owed property company St Laurence.

shasta
04-02-2007, 02:21 PM
Seems as if it's BK through Viking Capital wanting the Bridgecorp stake.

Will be watching the SSH notices with interest.

Disc: Nil held, on watch

blackcap
05-02-2007, 09:17 AM
quote:Originally posted by shasta

Seems as if it's BK through Viking Capital wanting the Bridgecorp stake.

Will be watching the SSH notices with interest.

Disc: Nil held, on watch


Well if it were to happen and BK did somehow get the Bridgecorp stake, it would do wonders for the shareprice. Albeit, head office would be "restructured" again...... And the saga goes on....

Steve
16-02-2007, 06:56 AM
The writedown due to bad debts shouldn't have been a surprise...

Profit cut for finance group (http://www.stuff.co.nz/3963401a13.html)
Dorchester Pacific says its annual profit will fall more than 50 per cent, after making bad-debt provisions of $4.65 million.

Yesterday's announcement caused the finance company's share price to fall 10.2 per cent to an intra-day low of 212, before closing off 21c at 215.

Dorchester said annual earnings ending March 31 were likely to be $3m to $4m, against $8.15m in 2006.

Lawso
16-02-2007, 08:45 AM
In the 12+ years that BK ran Dorchester as a listed company there was NEVER a downturn like this nor any bad debts of this scale. Only steady and consistent growth in profits, dividends and share price.

So much for the new regime! I'm v happy that I got out soon after the upheaval. Behind the blather, what have the new directors and management achieved for shareholders? 2/3rds of 3/5ths of FA.

shasta
16-02-2007, 10:22 AM
Wasn't the last financial year affected by "one - off" write downs etc, & that they had cleared all these in anticipation of adopting the new IFRS regime?

There life insurance division is a real labyrinth to digest & work out, although i do believe there is money in insurance (AMP, TWR, PMN have all recovered during 2006). I can even see DPC selling this division off as part of a large clean out at some point & at the "right" price.

This company deseparately needs to bite the bullet & disclosure all remaining provisions, write downs, bad debts etc & take the hit, & even if it results in a loss for the full year, at least end the "one off" surprises that the market dos not respond well to.

DPC needs direction & a new strategy & IMO that means to start sorting this mexican stand off, having 3 separate blocking stakes is holding DPC back from having a $3 SP.

To enable someone to extract full value out of DPC (& that shrewd Brent King knows it's there), Bridgecorp probably needs to exit, & have Hugh Green stay with the 19.99% stake, & perhaps VIK do what KFL do so well & retain just a 10.01% stake so they benefit from any takeover, yet retain a blocking stake & perhaps get Brent King back on the board to ensure Hugh Green is looking after all shareholders.

Disc: Nil, but have had on watch for a while & watching the charts, OBV, SSH notices etc etc :D

blackcap
16-02-2007, 10:25 AM
A cynic, myself included, would say that this is a perfect opportunity for BK to be buying some more shares at 2.15 :P

In fact this announcement couldnt have come at a better time!!!!

shasta
16-02-2007, 10:30 AM
True Blackcap

Its a bit of a contrarian play at present as the charts are awful to say the least, but much like RBC the longer it take to sort out the worse things seem to get!

I need funds for ASX committments, else i'd be tempted to grab a small parcel myself.

Lawso
16-02-2007, 06:23 PM
Personally, I wouldn't touch DPC again - not for quite a while anyway. Sure, there could be some volatility for a while, with various parties involved, each with their own agenda. But I'm prepared to pass up the possibility of any quick gain because D doesn't meet my criteria for throwing money at - ie for sound, well managed, progressive companies that have good governance and a clear growth path. D was once like that. Not any more.

hairdresser
16-02-2007, 09:15 PM
Should be cheaper in the future.
Consider
1. During the most favourable period of economic and credit growth in recent history, DPC have been unable to post decent gains.
2. What is the company's policy on provisioning do they only provision when they are sure to take a hit or is there a good chance that the provisions will be written back? If the former is the case they probably have a lot of dodgy loans on there books that will need to be provisioned for in the not too distant future.
3. The benign credit environment will not continue forever, its hard for lenders of last resort to grow their assets without taking on too much risk as the banks are pretty much lending on anything reasonably safe. When the climate turns there will be a lot more "provisioning".
4. Mr King has stated that he wants to pick up bargains in the finance industry. IMO he would probably make a move if DPC has a few big losses and started to run low on capital [something thta Mr King has plenty of at the moment]. I'm pretty sure this will happen within the next 2 years.

Cheers

Prophet
19-02-2007, 10:21 PM
Nearly 500k (i.e $1M) traded in DPC today. My guess is that King picked up most of them and a SSH noitce should confirm that tomorrow.

If he did then he has achieved a blocking stake of around 10.6% and he's in a position to force the outcome of the inevitable showdown between Bridgecorp and Hugh Green potentially triggered by the expiry of Bridgecorps loan from St Laurence come eo March.

Interesting times. Certainly not a time to sell for those already in the game.

COLIN
20-02-2007, 09:47 AM
I have always stayed well clear of this one. I prefer to avoid shark-infested waters when going fishing.

Steve
20-02-2007, 10:09 AM
quote:Originally posted by COLIN

I have always stayed well clear of this one. I prefer to avoid shark-infested waters when going fishing.

I always thought that sharks followed the best fishing spots?

Bling_Bling
20-02-2007, 11:30 AM
If there is no outcome soon, then the in fighting can be bad for business?

Steve
20-02-2007, 11:38 AM
quote:Originally posted by MoSteph

If DPC is a shark, it's so a Pygmy Shark.

I think that DPC is the fish, with BK/RP/HG being the sharks...

COLIN
20-02-2007, 11:41 AM
quote:Originally posted by Steve


quote:Originally posted by MoSteph

If DPC is a shark, it's so a Pygmy Shark.

I think that DPC is the fish, with BK/RP/HG being the sharks...


Agreed.

Prophet
23-02-2007, 09:29 AM
SSH notice raised. Viking move to 10.6%

Game on.:)

Bling_Bling
23-02-2007, 02:49 PM
What price did Bridgecorp pay for their holding?

How much capital does Viking have to play with? Do they have big enough pockets for DPC?

I have a feeling a few directors on the DPC board will lose their seat. :D

kizame
23-02-2007, 04:24 PM
Game-on!What makes you think anything really positive is going to happen,some shareholdings will change,but it will be a long time before Brent King,if he gets influence on the board,will be able to implement changes,and a while before they come through to the bottom line.I'm sick of this company.I was a very successful shareholder for a number of years with this baby,but i think someone needs to take it out,to get it off the boards.

Prophet
23-02-2007, 09:04 PM
I believe the three main players motivations with DPC are as follows.

Bridgecorp want a backdoor listing on the NZX but also need the DPC book to balance the risk on their own finance book which is geared around some highly leveraged property deals. Its limited for now to a 19.9% stake because it doesn't have the funds to do a full takeover and execute its plan. It is over $1 per share out of pocket on its purchase price.

Hugh Green is a professional investor he sees a solid company under valued and opportunity to make a solid gain. He's limited to 19.9% because he wants to maximise his investment exposure but not trigger a takeover. I must add Green is no fool and his skin in this game gives me confidence to remain. Most importantly he isn't a long term investor and as such he'll want to realise his investment sometime, hopefully soon. Certainly I can't imagine he be happy with the way DPC's share price has wallowed in recent times.

King and his vehicle Viking are akin to Hugh Green. King having sold his stake at somewhere between $3.30 and $4.00 he sees value in DPC at current levels and is probably an ideal long term owner. Certainly he knows the business extremely well and is undeterred by the one off provisions announced - they are just provisions on the off chance the loans default. More so the news has created an opportunity to establish his 10% blocking stake.

A fourth, wild card, party could be St Laurence with their defacto stake in DPC via short term colateral they hold over Bridgecorps shares in DPC. I think the loan that relates to this expires sometime in March and I think this could be the catalyst for some chanages.

shasta
23-02-2007, 09:54 PM
Well articulated Prophet

I see the DPC play going something like this:

1. Bridgecorp/St Laurence will want out, RP hasn't achieved what he wanted, it's & time to admit defeat & move on & put his money & resources elsewhere. They don't have the funds to mount a takeover.

2. Hugh Green as you say, isn't in this for the long haul, if he can't instigate the changes to increase his return he will want out, but will wait for the right price.

3. BK obviously wants back in & knows there is value in DPC that the current management can't unlock. Thru his Viking Capital investment vehicle they may be able to raise the finance to mount a takeover, however i suspect he will accumulate up to the 19.99% mark & wait ....

I would be happy with HG & BK working together with a combined 40% control & that would entice me to buy into DPC.

Until that happens it's a waiting game (just like RBC) & in the short term it's likely going nowhere!

TerryA
24-02-2007, 08:06 AM
Shasta,

Looks as if you were spot on about BK and Viking,

>>Viking looking to raise $20m
Email this storyPrint this story 5:00AM Saturday February 24, 2007
By Liam Dann

Brent King's investment company, Viking Capital - which raised just $15 million in its float last year - will hold a special meeting next month seeking shareholder approval for a bond issue to raise up to $20 million of capital.

King would not say specifically where the new capital would be spent but indicated there was no shortage of opportunities in the market.

"Every day we are getting approached to do different things. It's nice to have the phone ringing," he said. "It is a nice market for us right now."

A $20 million capital raising would be a significant step for the investment company, which raised just $15 million when it floated on the NZX alternative market last June.<<

KJ
24-02-2007, 09:22 AM
quote:Originally posted by KJ

Also quoting from the AGM dated 23/8/06:
"already we are reaping the benefits with year to date results tracking well ahead of last year"....(Chairman)

"we are tracking towards a profit for 2007yr ahead of last yr in line with our goal of achieving a 20% return on shareholders funds"
...(new CEO)

These comments were made just before the H/Y results.Why would you want to invest?

In a LT downtrend with profit falling & management making the above statements.

A 20% return on shareholders funds equals NPAT for 2007 of $10.8m-don't think so!


Results have been poor over the last few yrs regardless of who was in charge compared with other finance coys.Hard to see any change.

Bling_Bling
24-02-2007, 02:27 PM
$20 million is not enought take out DPC. I think they will have to pay over $3 to make a successful T/O. At $3 will value the company at over $90 million.

Any ideas?

Steve
25-02-2007, 09:32 AM
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling

$20 million is not enought take out DPC. I think they will have to pay over $3 to make a successful T/O. At $3 will value the company at over $90 million.

Any ideas?

Perhaps BK is aiming for 19.99% at this stage?

KJ
27-02-2007, 09:17 AM
quote:Originally posted by Steve


quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling

$20 million is not enought take out DPC. I think they will have to pay over $3 to make a successful T/O. At $3 will value the company at over $90 million.

Any ideas?

Perhaps BK is aiming for 19.99% at this stage?


Perhaps some of his friends from 42 Below will help-they would have a bit of spare cash.

Contrarian
28-03-2007, 05:28 PM
Gidday
St Lawrence & DPC "White Knighting" each other.

St Lawrence own 15% of DPC
DPC own 25 % of St Lawrence

What do you people think? , I'm not impressed.

COLIN
28-03-2007, 07:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by Contrarian

Gidday
St Lawrence & DPC "White Knighting" each other.

St Lawrence own 15% of DPC
DPC own 25 % of St Lawrence

What do you people think? , I'm not impressed.

I'm disappointed with this move by St Laurence as I expected better things of them. Dorchester has never impressed me. Wonder what Chris Lee ( chrislee.co.nz ) will have to say, as he is a fan of St. Laurence.

wsheridan
28-03-2007, 10:08 PM
dpc are fxxxed and now they are carrying that status onto their new siblings...... the sins of the father will be vested on the son

Bling_Bling
29-03-2007, 06:02 AM
quote:Originally posted by Contrarian

Gidday
St Lawrence & DPC "White Knighting" each other.

St Lawrence own 15% of DPC
DPC own 25 % of St Lawrence

What do you people think? , I'm not impressed.


So it makes sense for DPC and St Lawrence to merger and use DPC as backdoor listing? This is good news for DPC. Where does Brett King come into all of this?

hairdresser
29-03-2007, 09:15 AM
Also

Bridgecorp owns c19% of DPC.

STL has security interest over Bridgecorps shares in DPC as well.

Looks like a 3 way play to shut out Mr King.

We could be seeing one much larger finance company shortly.


Cheers

Bling_Bling
29-03-2007, 09:24 AM
Once you reach 20%+ doesnt it trigger a takeover offer to all shareholders?

blackcap
18-04-2007, 09:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling

Once you reach 20%+ doesnt it trigger a takeover offer to all shareholders?


ok any guesses on what happend this morning?

Bling_Bling
18-04-2007, 11:58 AM
I assume Bridgecorp couldnt pay the loan when the time was up, so Laurance got the shares CHEAP. Huge lost for Bridgecorp. The question is what now for the remaining share Bridgecorp is holding? Effectively Laurance have trumped any potential T/O for DPC. This is looking interesting. Will have to wait and see Green and King's next move.

Prophet
18-04-2007, 04:27 PM
Well its reassuring, for me at least, to see part of my analysis posted earlier coming true.

Ducks are starting to come into line and more action will presumably follow in the weeks ahead. Green and Kings role/interest going forward is the big unknown but I suspect they are still only in for the short haul and their exit is close leaving St Laurence and DPC to progress their stated merger ambitions - a great outcome. Given St Laurence is at 19% any exit of Green and/or King by sale to St Laurence would mean minor shareholders like myself stand to share in the deal as it would trigger the takeover rules which state that the price offered to King/Green must be offered to all. Both King and Greens average purchase price is somewhat higher than current market price and they won't be letting their shares go for a song and this is the basis for holding my 20,000 shares.

Bridgecorp should also be posting a SSH notice very soon.

Prophet
23-04-2007, 08:58 PM
Bridgeorp SSH notice finally posted and they are now all out of DPC.

shasta
23-04-2007, 09:28 PM
Bridgecorp out of DPC is a buy signal IMO.

Ignoring TA (sorry Phaedrus) this is pretty much what we thought might happen.

Fundamentally for me, DPC is looking a better investment although it still needs to shake out either HG or BK to remove the uncertainty.

Just like the RBC situation, it will take more unravelling before the shareholders see some of the unlocked value, especially in the undervalued insurance division.

Disc: Am watching closely now Bridgecorp are out.

hairdresser
24-04-2007, 03:48 AM
It loooks like the little ducks are lining up.

STL is cashed up and strong [just raised $22m]
DPC is cheap [well not way overpriced]
Petrovic has sold to someone probably not Mr King
It looks like the objective of keeping Mr King out will be achieved shortly. Although he will make a nice little profit

Watch for an amalgamation with Bridgecorp and newco before new regs come into play.

Win win win. St Lawrence gets greater retail exposure, Bridgecrap gets a get out of jail free pass.

KJ
24-04-2007, 07:21 AM
I see that the Herald says that the Bridgecorp stake was sold in an off market transaction including H Green & St Laurence. If this was so I would have thought that it would take their respective stakes to over 20%.
I decided to buy in a couple of days back-looks a good spec now.

hairdresser
24-04-2007, 07:55 AM
I'm going to try to buy today, hopefully there won't be an SSH or TAK announcement early on. I was going to get a new car this week, maybe I'll be able to get a better one next week.

Cheers

Bling_Bling
24-04-2007, 09:48 AM
Business StoryRSS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bridgecorp sells stake
Email this storyPrint this story 5:30AM Tuesday April 24, 2007

Finance company Bridgecorp confirmed yesterday it has sold its 18 per cent stake in rival finance group Dorchester.

A statement said the stake was sold in an off-market transaction to parties including Hugh Green Investments and St Laurence Mortgage Holdings.


If this is true then both HG and SL shareholding will breah 20% and should trigger a T/O offer for the rest of DPC shares. Where is the SSH notice??? Come on we are waiting! :)

Halebop
24-04-2007, 10:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling

Business StoryRSS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bridgecorp sells stake
Email this storyPrint this story 5:30AM Tuesday April 24, 2007

Finance company Bridgecorp confirmed yesterday it has sold its 18 per cent stake in rival finance group Dorchester.

A statement said the stake was sold in an off-market transaction to parties including Hugh Green Investments and St Laurence Mortgage Holdings.


If this is true then both HG and SL shareholding will breah 20% and should trigger a T/O offer for the rest of DPC shares. Where is the SSH notice??? Come on we are waiting! :)

DPC issued new shares to St Lawrence Mortgage Holdings, meaning existing shareholdings were watered down by the 13% share issue. This allows existing shareholders who were previously at the limit to buy more shares without triggering the limit threshold. St Lawrence Mortgage itself could buy an extra 7% or so without triggering a general offer.

KJ
24-04-2007, 02:47 PM
Thanks Halebop-I had missed that point.

hairdresser
24-04-2007, 04:13 PM
This is how I see the shareholding, don't worry about correcting me if I'm wrong I suck at maths

Last week the major holdings were

Green 20%
King 10%
STL 13%
Bridge 18%
Total 61%

This week
Green unknown but cant be over 20% with an SSH
STL 20%
King probably still 10% no SSH
Others 11%
Total 61%

DPC owns 25% of STL as well,

It makes sense to have a larger stronger finance company, it will improve their cost of funds and enable them to compete with the banks and not be so reliant on the risky end of the market. They could end up more like MacBank rather than Instant Finance.

I think they will go for an amalgamation rather than a takeover. Should be acceptable to shareholders and Mr King wouldn't be able to block it ie 75% accepatance vs 90%.

lakeside
08-05-2007, 08:28 PM
DPC has dropped to $2.06 and some bigger volumes going through.

It looks to me that ST L has 15% and St L Morgages 19% so thats 35% between the two.

I'll paste this article below as I only found it in the herald on line.

Financiers' complex web in order says panel
Email this storyPrint this story 5:00AM Friday April 20, 2007
By Anne Gibson
The issue was whether St Laurence indirectly controlled 28.7 per cent of Dorchester, which is led by Andrew Walker. Photo / File

The issue was whether St Laurence indirectly controlled 28.7 per cent of Dorchester, which is led by Andrew Walker. Photo / File

The Takeovers Panel has rejected a complaint about complex shareholder relationships between financiers St Laurence, Dorchester Pacific and Bridgecorp.

Kerry Morrell, the panel's senior executive officer, said yesterday no wrong-doing had been found in the deals which saw the financiers take stakes in each other.

Bruce Sheppard, chairman of the Shareholders' Association, lodged a complaint as a shareholder a few weeks ago alleging a breach of the Takeovers Code.

At issue was whether St Laurence indirectly controlled 28.7 per cent of Dorchester, which could have breached the code's 20 per cent threshold rule that states when a shareholder reaches that level, a full offer must be made to all shareholders.

At the time of the complaint, St Laurence owned 13 per cent of Dorchester but has since increased its holding to 19.9 per cent.

St Laurence Mortgage Holdings had loaned Bridgecorp money and the security for the loan was 15.7 per cent of Dorchester, owned by Bridgecorp. St Laurence could have taken possession of Bridgecorp's stake, giving it 28.7 per cent of Dorchester. But after examining the situation closely, the panel decided there was no breach and it rejected Sheppard's complaint.

"We have not found any evidence to suggest that St Laurence might have breached the code," Morrell said yesterday.

Kevin Podmore, managing director of St Laurence, welcomed the move and said he had received a letter from the panel this week. "It didn't really worry me," he said of the complaint. "We had legal advice and we were comfortable with our position. We didn't believe we had done anything wrong and it's quite welcome that it's been verified by the Takeovers Panel. The concern was that we were associated parties. Our view was that it was not an issue because the [Bridgecorp] loan was not in default and we had not exercised that security."

At the end of last month, Dorchester took a 25 per cent stake in St Laurence for $29.6 million.

"Dorchester will own shares in St Laurence Ltd, a property-based investment and finance group of companies, which manages more than $1 billion in assets for over 16,000 investors," Dorchester announced on March 28.

On Wednesday this week, the relationship took a further step forward when St Laurence Property & Finance announced that Dorchester chief executive Andrew Walker would join its board. That followed the resignation of former St Laurence director Phil Newland. Walker was also appointed to the board of National Property Trust, managed by St Laurence.

St Laurence Property & Finance is listed on the secondary market. Commentators said yesterday they expect St Laurence to make an imminent move on Dorchester via a reverse takeover. Podmore did not rule this out.

"A takeover is an option. I'm happy to look at it but there's nothing on the plate at the moment," he said.

Dorchester was keen to get involved in St Laurence's two main funds, National Property Trust and St Property and Finance, Podmore said, and Walker's appointment was part of that shift.

Sheppard said yesterday he was not surprised that his complaint was rejected. "I knew that Bridgecorp still owned the stock, not St Laurence. But I made the complaint just to see what the panel would say."

Who owns what

*Unlisted St Laurence of Wellington owns 19.9 per cent of Dorchester.

* Listed Dorchester Pacific of Auckland owns 25 per cent of St Laurence.

* St Laurence owns the manager of lis

lakeside
31-05-2007, 08:55 AM
DPC
30/05/2007
FLLYR

REL: 1700 HRS Dorchester Pacific Limited

FLLYR: DPC: Dorchester End of Year Results to 31 March 2007

DORCHESTER PACIFIC LIMITED
Results for announcement to the market
Reporting Period: 12 months to 31 March 2007
Previous Reporting Period: 12 months to 31 March 2006

Revenue from ordinary activities NZD $000's 99,995 -3%

Profit/(loss) from ordinary activities after tax attributable
to security holders NZD $000's 3,058 -63%

Net profit/(loss) attributable to security holders NZD $000's
3,058 -63%
Interim Dividend
Amount per security NZD$0.0425
Imputed amount per security NZD$0.022903

Record Date 15 June 2007
Dividend Payment Date 29 June 2007

DORCHESTER ANNOUNCES NET PROFIT AFTER TAX OF $3.06 MILLION
Dorchester Pacific Limited end of year results to 31 March 2007

Dorchester Pacific Limited ("Dorchester") today announced a net profit after
tax of $3.06 million for the financial year ended 31 March 2007, down from
$8.15 million in 2006.

The result falls within the profit guidance range offered in mid-February,
when the company announced two specific provisions (as detailed in the notes
below).

Total shareholders equity increased as a result of the exercise of 3,192,900
warrants in August 2006 and the issue of 4,767,891 shares to Auguste Finance
Limited (previously St Laurence Mortgage Holdings Limited), the holding
company of St Laurence Limited, in March 2007.

The directors have declared a final dividend for the 2007 financial year of
4.25 cents per share, making a total dividend for the year of 9.00 cents,
fully imputed (last year 11.00 cents fully imputed).

Chairman of Dorchester, Mr Barry Graham, commented: "Over the 2007 financial
year, new management undertook a series of reviews, initiated change and set
a platform in place to enable the development of the company.

"Although it was disappointing to announce a reduced net profit result, the
directors have approved the dividend at 100 percent of FY07 profit, which is
an expression of their confidence in the future of the company.

"There have been a number of positive changes and achievements during the
financial year which will provide future benefit for the company, including
our strategic partnership with St Laurence, the appointment of a committed
management team and positive movements in the shareholder base.

"The exercise of warrants and the issue of shares to Auguste Finance have
strengthened Dorchester's capital base and balance sheet, ensuring the
company is positioned to take advantage of future opportunities arising from
industry consolidation.

"Support from our investor base remains strong and the company continues to
maintain high levels of liquidity and cash reserves.

"The Dorchester board is committed to improving earnings, through the
continued strengthening of our existing businesses and the identification of
growth and market opportunities."

CEO of Dorchester, Mr Andrew Walker, said: "Since my arrival in June 2006, we
have taken steps to reposition Dorchester and to rectify some outstanding
issues.

"Following a review of operations, changes have been made to ensure a sound
platform for the future development of the company, including much needed
investment in systems, some restructuring and several write-downs and one-off
provisions.

"We also identified key areas for expansion that fit with our strategic plans
and have invested for growth, both organically and through acquisition.

"The investment in St Laurence is an indication of our strategic direction,
shifting Dorchester's historical consumer finance focus and rebalancing its
lending and services around a more risk balanced strategy.

"The relationship between Dorchester and St Laurence has been strengthened,
with Kevin Podmore appo

lakeside
31-05-2007, 01:30 PM
Yes I think the negatives are one off. I had alook at viking too to see if there was anything about DPC. The price has dropped 10-15% over the last month or so but very low volume. Has to be a turnaround stock and will be hard to buy in volume.

lewinsky
11-06-2007, 11:01 AM
Lawso,

Are you still a holder of DPC or given up in disgust?
If you are a holder,I'd like to make contact.
Cheers
Lew

lakeside
12-06-2007, 09:20 AM
$1.85 - what a dive. Very small volumes though. Yield looking good.

What games are the big boys up to?

Long term this company looks fine and I see they are doing a lot of advertising on these reverse morgages on TV.

Lawso
12-06-2007, 03:53 PM
Hi Lew

I sold the last of my DPC in December. There is a tenuous connection through a modest holding in VIK and longstanding investments with St Laurence. I was very surprised at the recent St L connection and Podmore going on the DPC board.

Hoop
12-06-2007, 08:31 PM
Lakeside I agree the company looks fine in the long term.

I expected the Company turn-a-round would have been the day St Laurence became partly merged with Dorchester. St L is top performing, repected company...so can anyone tell why the shareprice is falling? It should be by all accounts rising. DPC is still yet to go ex div of 4.25cps, last day friday 15th June. Yield 2.3% imputed.

Its share price must again be below its asset backing. A share buy back programme was announced last August 2006 when the shares were trading below its net asset backing, the share price then rose quickly after the announcement so none were purchased. It would interesting if this program is still in place as it would be a cheap option to mop up cheap shares and store them in the company treasury, this would aid any merger without breaking any takeover codes.

lewinsky
13-06-2007, 07:18 AM
There are some serious questions that need asking at the Annual Meeting
At last years meeting the Chairman advised that DPC was on track to return in excess of 20% on shareholders funds. They were ao far off this even before one off provisions that I believe shareholders were misinformed.
The share price has dropped by around 30% in the year.
The Chairman has made a number of allegations about the previous involvemeent of the MD with SMS.If he is right then shareholders deserve redress. If he is wrong then he has made very damaging comments that could potentially result in a claim by the previous MD, for which DPC will no doubt pay.
It strikes me of directors who were happy to ride on BDK's coattails while he was in charge and then turning the gun on him the moment he walked out the door.
There should be a real shake-up on the Board,but unfortunately with the shareholding make-up,this won't be possible.
They dropped the ball on reverse mortgages,and basically I see better value elsewhere on the market.
Little wonder that the shares are going backwards.

lakeside
15-06-2007, 11:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by Lawso

Hi Lew

I sold the last of my DPC in December. There is a tenuous connection through a modest holding in VIK and longstanding investments with St Laurence. I was very surprised at the recent St L connection and Podmore going on the DPC board.


Lawso - You must have some of the St L fixed interest debentures to be exposed to DPC.

I think St L Mortgages (SLMH)is St L Ltd now and they are privately owned. They are the one's who had the bridge corp loan and now the DPC shares bought about $2.10

SLPF are separate but run by St L (same as NAP) although St L have a fair bit of SLPF.

And both SLPF and StL have a fair bit of NAP - $10% I think which is on a down trend too but long term should be good.

Then DPC have 25% of St L but I don't think it all matters to us because if you have ST L debentures they have very good figures, profits etc so you get your interest and your moneys safe and if you have SLPF its irrelevant what their manager is up to although SLPF may be able to raise more investor / debenture money from the DPC they are an independant property & finance business. I guess StL could cash in its SLPF but why would they do that with a 25% in debenture investors last year & heaps of growth to come.

Lawso
15-06-2007, 01:44 PM
No, Lakeside. I hold St L Ltd capital notes and St L P&F convertible property notes. So what does that mean re DPC exposure?

I have confidence in Kevin and his team. But I wish the St L Group structure wasn't so *#@!%* complicated!

lakeside
15-06-2007, 02:52 PM
Well you have no worries STL would have some DPL exposure but not much in the scheme of things and their credit rating is good & getting better. SLPF looks very much off on its own, independant, and it must be a good investment as STL just got 30% of STL or so by excercising rights at $1.15 and they were right in there for the capital raising and they should know.

Any way pasted some of a STL investment statement late 2006 which explains its all simpler now!

SECURITY
The Secured Debenture Stock is constituted by a trust deed and is secured by a fi rst ranking charge over the undertakings
and assets of the Company and the Charging Companies, subject to permitted Prior Charges and statutorily preferred
claims. The total amount secured under Prior Charges which rank in priority to the Secured Debenture Stock must not
exceed 10% of Total Realisable Assets.
The diagram on page 8 sets out the structure of the Company and its subsidiaries. Not all subsidiaries of the Company
are Charging Companies under the terms of the Debenture Trust Deed. Under the Debenture Trust Deed, the Charging
Companies have each guaranteed the Secured Debenture Stock and charged their assets in support of the obligations
of the Company and the other Charging Companies, including the Company’s obligations in respect of the Secured
Debenture Stock. The Non-Charging Companies (which are St Laurence Property & Finance Limited (and its subsidiaries),
St Laurence Capital Limited and the subsidiaries of Direct Property Investments Limited) are not parties
to the Debenture Trust Deed and their assets are not subject to the charge created by the Debenture Trust Deed.
The Company’s shareholding in the Non-Charging Companies is, however, subject to the charge created by the
Debenture Trust Deed.
THE HISTORY
The St Laurence brand has been active in the property investment and fi nance markets since 1995, and is recognised and
trusted by investors as having integrity and vision.
St Laurence Limited (formerly called St Laurence Mortgages Limited) was established in July 1999 as a property-based
fi nance company to invest primarily in a portfolio of secured property loan advances, bank deposits and government
securities. From small beginnings, the Group has grown steadily and prudently and, as a result of that growth and recent
acquisitions, now manages more than $1 billion in assets for over 16,000 investors (as of the date of this investment
statement). St Laurence Limited is a wholly-owned subsidiary of St Laurence Mortgage Holdings Limited.
In early 2006, the directors and management of the Company undertook a detailed review, the objectives of which were
very clear:
• Diversify and strengthen the Company’s asset base and income streams;
• Position the Company for future growth with additional share capital; and
• Simplify the business to make it more easily understood.
As a result of that review, it was proposed that the Company acquire a number of companies from St Laurence Holdings
Limited and one company from St Laurence NSW Pty Limited.
Transparency, openness and a constructive relationship with the Trustee, fi nancial advisers and investors are important to
the Company. As part of the review process, we consulted with the Trustee and key fi nancial advisers and discussed with
them our plans for the Company. We also provided our investors with detailed information on the proposed changes and
invited them to approve these at a special meeting, which they did on 19 September 2006.

THE HISTORY
The St Laurence brand has been active in the property investment and fi nance markets since 1995, and is recognised and
trusted by investors as having integrity and vision.
St Laurence Limited (formerly called St Laurence Mortgages Limited) was established in July 1999 as a property-based
fi nance company to invest primarily in a portfolio of secured property loan advances, bank deposits and government
securities. From small beginnings, the Group has grown steadily and prudently and, as a result of that growth and recent
acq

lakeside
15-06-2007, 02:53 PM
But I digress...

Lawso
15-06-2007, 04:06 PM
Gee thanks, lakeside. Now I'm more confused than ever.

Adding to the confusion is that at least one product, St L capital notes, are listed on NZDX while at least one other, St L P&F property notes - and maybe others - trade on www.unlisted.[V]

Let's hope that before too long Kevin pulls a lot of stuff together and lists one company on NZX.

Afterthought: Yes, this has got a long way off the point re DPC. Why don't you start a St Laurence thread, lakeside, and put the above onto it?

Hoop
15-06-2007, 07:03 PM
Quote from Lawso:

Let's hope that before too long Kevin pulls a lot of stuff together and lists one company on NZX

The financial watchers were amazed when StL group got mixed up with DPC. The only reasons that some commentators have mentioned, is it exposes StL to some niche markets and allows an entry into the NZX. Some commentators thinks that DPC will be sold on or still taken over by other much bigger still unknown company.

Last year it was common knowledge that the Financial Market was in for change. At the moment there too many small niche financial companies which make reasonable good profits and other small companies that compete in the general market that don't make adequate profits in relation to the capital base that they work from. 2007 was mean't to be the year of takeovers and mergers and a shinkage of overall numbers and emergence of more much larger groups, and we are seeing some evidence of it now.

Where does DPC fit in this picture. ( beware..:) my Viewpoint)

DPC is small grouping of companies that has NZX listing and my bet is the StL Group sees value in that. Also DPC as a whole is underperforming and if StL can get into the DPC management it may be able to unlock some of that value. As there is a mutual affection between the two I suspect that there could be a highly complicated mix/merger in progress adding value (synergy) from both groups by spinning bits off and forming much bigger company(s), or a big financial group using the DPC brand listed on the NZX. For this to happen there could be some more medium & small companies yet to come on board. As has been mention in the posts by Lakeside, the StL group is a complicated mix of semi independent companies already.

All this is my speculation and could be very wrong.

StL bought into DPC as did DPC into StL group.

[u]My question</u>, the same as other commentators is why on earth would a top performing company of StL Group tanish it's reputation and invest into a small niche company that isn't performing as opposed to others that are doing very well at the moment and must be rated better prospects [?]

As for us shareholders, [B)] I think we have been hijacked, and it has become a big unknown complicated scarery scenerio that we didn't expect or wanted when we bought in, hence the fall in the shareprice. Lets hope all this is resolved reasonable quickly and the poor loyal shareholders will benefit through certainty and be rewarded with the added wealth that StL can inject into DPC.

I pray for patience and not to have the urge to push that big red ejector button.

It would be nice to hear from some other shatchatters views so as to build a compete picture on which possible directions DPC could be heading.

Hoop
29-06-2007, 02:27 PM
Quote from Hoop 12/06/2007

...Its share price must again be below its asset backing. A share buy back programme was announced last August 2006 when the shares were trading below its net asset backing, the share price then rose quickly after the announcement so none were purchased. It would interesting if this program is still in place as it would be a cheap option to mop up cheap shares and store them in the company treasury.....

They must have read my post :D:D:D

lakeside
29-06-2007, 07:42 PM
Annual report on the website. Nothing too exiting 2007 was hard work, 2008 will be more. Deal with Kiwibank could be good.Their equity is good.
Upward shareprice must be due to the buy back as you suggest hoop.Such small volumes it will be easy to raise the price and with 2% of shares with "leveraged equities " one hopes not too leveraged the way the share price has dived.

Phaedrus
29-06-2007, 08:31 PM
Hoop, given that DPC is in a downtrend, and has been for 2 years so far, statistically the most likely direction for it is down.

Here is a chart that you might find interesting. On it I have marked the Close before the 2006 buyback was announced and the Close on the day of the announcement. You can see that there was a rise of 11 cents (5.2%). The actual buyback began on 2/8/06 and, while we can never be certain, it is hard to see any really significant and lasting positive effects. Certainly any rises occasioned were not enough to stem the on-going downtrend. Today's announcement probably triggered the rise of 8 cents (4.8%). In short, though, I would not want to pin too much hope on the buyback, though of course this must be viewed as a longterm positive.

Paper Tiger claims that "steps" in the OBV have no significance and should be ignored. Take a look at the two here (circled in magenta). See how in both cases they forewarned of future weakness, preceding quite large falls in the shareprice. See how the OBV step triggered a Sell signal 4 months ahead of the trendline break Sell signal - albeit at much the same price. Neat eh? It certainly pays to keep a close eye on the actions of big players.

http://h1.ripway.com/Phaedrus/DPC629b.gif

lakeside
30-06-2007, 12:15 PM
NTA is $1.92 a share so shouldn't go too much lower as they aren't losing money, just not going anywhere fast.

Hoop
30-06-2007, 09:02 PM
Phaedrus
Great chart. I use very basic TA as a tool, but TA facinates me to the point of being spooky. This OBV sell down signal you circled in red seems to be a precurser to a shareprice drop, I know it works and I usually apply KISS and don't waste my time normally as to why this happens, I just use my discipline to sell out (exception with DPC obviously). I use the theory that you use the tool thats it!!, e.g you turn on the the TV to watch the news, you don't think all the processes the TV goes thru to work to give you the news, you take it for granted, same for me using Basic TA..
..Except now!!
For the life of me.. I can't relate the OBV drops to the price drop later in your above example. Your first OBV red circle was due to several factors at once Hugh Green Inv exercising his Sept05 warrants early (to get Div)and had to sell his head shares to keep under the 20% cap and some sort of dealing thru the mkt between Bridgecorp and Hugh Green with those shares. Exercising the warrants at $1.70 would cause a slight dilution factor pricewise...but there was nothing sinister like a big investor bailing out because of special knowledge.
The second OBV red circle the big one a couple of months ago was this Mickey Mouse share swaping between DPC and StL and StL swapping the Bridgecorp loan for their DPC shares. Again big volumes were transacted and increased numbers of shares causing a dilution but again nothing sinister,only Bridgecorp bailed out and they were a reluctant seller I think..

.....well I not going to waste any more time writing and thinking.....TA works and that is good enough for me.
ThXs for the imput Phaedreus I have learn't alot over the years with your charting.
...you are probably wondering if I use TA principles as well as FA why I still have DPC shares?
.. I bought heaps at 66cents a few years ago so I now get huge yield rates :D:D Yes.. Yes I hear you say why didn't I sell out at $2.80 at Xmas 2004? It was under a takeover cloud then so I decided to wait...and I am still waiting [:o)][:o)]..But I think for not much longer, I expect things are going to happen shortly. I'm a long term investor in nature with lots of patience. Your graph may show a 2.5 year downtrend but money was made by shareholders during the first 1.5 years of the downtrend time through the gifting and exercising/selling of warrants.Its only been the last year of the this 2.5 year downtrend that the DPC share has gone pearshaped for it's investors.

Hoop
30-06-2007, 09:11 PM
Oh...I forgot to mention..
Even though a share buyback plan was announced on 28/07/06 no shares were ever actually brought back.

lakeside
02-07-2007, 01:17 PM
Could a buyback push the couple of 19.88% holders over 20% ?

winner69
02-07-2007, 01:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by lakeside

NTA is $1.92 a share so shouldn't go too much lower as they aren't losing money, just not going anywhere fast.


down to 165 today - now thats is going somewhere ... down

wonder why?

Hoop
02-07-2007, 08:23 PM
Both my finance shares took a hiding today Dominion Finance [u]DFH</u> (down 6.8%) and Dorchester [u]DPC</u> (down 5.7%). I think they are been unjustifiably tarred by the Bridgecorp's brush.

# BRIDGECORP SUSPENDS SHARE TRADING

Property finance company Bridgecorp Holdings (ranked E see below) requested its shares be temporarily suspended from trading on online platform Unlisted.

The company says it is in talks with trustees and until it has resolved issues, a trading suspension is appropriate. Bridgecorp defaulted on repayments of some term investments due to investors last week.

In April, Bridgecorp said it had $523 million of term investments with 18,000 people in New Zealand.

Once again investors are spooked.

It's been common knowledge for ages that Bridgecorp has had its troubles, so it's surprising that the market has taken fright over this announcement. I wonder if this not an overreaction. OK I do realise that there is a lot of investment money tied up with an unknown future which will affect the investment market.

There are a few wobbly finance companies around, but DFH is up with the best (ranked B). See Chris Lee's site for his A to E rankings of the best to worst in NZ finance companies. http://www.chrislee.co.nz/June%202007%20Market%20News.htm DPC has dropped a rank, now(ranked C)but it is still reasonably solid, but the sharemarket is singing a different tune...St Laurence which is now a bed buddy with Dorchester is ranked A !!!!
....I don't know why DPC is being so severely punished..it's got me stumped.

Also I am getting sick of making excuses for DPC. Getting close to waving the white flag on this stock and realise whats left of my profits. Held this stock for 10 years now.

You hear and they react on the bad news, what about todays good news?
# HANOVER FINANCE REPORTS $60M PROFIT (UP 5.4%)(Ranked B)

Prophet
02-07-2007, 09:08 PM
Unfortunately I think the drop in DPC shareprice can partially be attributed to ill informed / popular belief that Bridgecorp is still a major shareholder in DPC. Still even the informed have reason to stand wary of putting good cash into the finance sector in general and DPC specifically (while things are uncertain with regards the company's intentions with St L). Maybe a bigger deal to be done with Bridgecorp scraps, DPC and St L. Interesting times and DPC at an attractive price; still not willing to add to my position when there are more certain stocks around to invest in.

Watching closely to see how things unfold.

lewinsky
03-07-2007, 07:08 AM
I think the reason for the drop in share price can be found when you read the Annual Report.
The Annual Meeting should be a cracker!
LEW

Bling_Bling
03-07-2007, 07:40 AM
Maybe it is an opportunity for DPC and ST L grp to pick up the pieces of Bridgecorp at bargain prices.

lakeside
03-07-2007, 08:00 AM
They are saying liquidity was the main thing with Bridgecorp.

But it was just an interest payment they couldn't repay not even a capital repayment so they were in trouble all right.

Maybe St L had to take to take Dorchester shares when they realised they wouldn't get back the money they loaned to Bridge corp. They must have know back then things were bad - Fiji was the thing.

I think finance companies would rather keep good faith and money coming in with depositors than pick up more for their loan book. Could mean some higher interest rates paid by this sector.

Hoop
03-07-2007, 09:10 AM
Bling any bargains from Bridgecorp is possibly many months away. The smart companies were building up their reserves over the last few months, which affects their profits but keeps themselves solvent when the rush is on with investors wanting their funds back. These smart companies anticipated trouble brewing with Bridgecorp. The problem from today and into the short term is the run on investor's funds. This may see a few more wobbly companies collapse. The scary thing is that a very profitable company with a good rating may collapse just because they have too much of their capital on loan, at the time of a funds flight.
Obviously St L saw this happening and could explain the mysterous reason why they would ever want to hook up with DPC. Maybe as Lakeside has pointed if StL wanted any money back from its loan to Bridge it had to take the DPC shares in lieu. However a positive spin on this (if there is one!) STL valued DPC shares at $1.75 in the Bridgecorp loan yet paid $2.10ish for them. Bridgecorp had DPC valued at $2.90 per share on their books. So it seems that StL must have seen some value in DPC especially as it asset backing was then $1.92.
What slightly worries me is that DPC supposely has money in reserve,yet they paid a 4.25cps dividend which in my view was not smart. The dividend was 12% of reserve capital held so it's not of major concern.
I think these events with Bridgecorp may prevent DPC who I think were looking at acquistions and a share buy back from preceeding in the short term.

I think all finance companies will battening down their hatches as there is a storm due to arrive as from today, this will affect future profits.

hairdresser
03-07-2007, 09:46 AM
Do DPC have any loans to Bridgecorp or related parties on its books? If they do it would explain the share price drop off.

Bling_Bling
03-07-2007, 10:05 AM
One would also assume that a few of the weak finance firms dropping out is good for the industry as a whole in the long term. Consolidation in the industry will benefit the few dominant players. Interesting comments from posters, thank you.

dsurf
05-07-2007, 07:40 AM
At an industry level - rising interest rates and liquidity crunch does not keep the cashflow coming in - hence 4 finace firms fall -over

At a company level - Inexperienced management with no track record and not meeting targets (including the reverse mortage debacle)
- Fractious boardroom
- Split opposing dominant shareholders, reducing any T/O opportunity

I will buy this at a $1.00 in the next 2 years.

Bling_Bling
05-07-2007, 08:19 AM
quote:Originally posted by dsurf

I will buy this at a $1.00 in the next 2 years.


At $1 ST L grp will probably T/O the company lol

Hoop
05-07-2007, 10:55 AM
Hairdresser you will probably know the answer now to your own question by now... Do DPC have any loans to Bridgecorp or related parties on its books? If they do it would explain the share price drop off.

Answer: No http://www.directbroking.co.nz/directtrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=1642653

Interesting point about people waiting for DPC to go to $1.

Phaedrus is smiling as it reinforces that his TA disciplines work a treat here as opposed to FA to which I still use as one of my tools.
TA & FA conflict extremely here.

Finance companies run with very little Nett Asset backing per share.E.g:

AMP share price(SP)$11.15 NTA/Share $0.94
Dominion (DFH) SP $ 2.05 NTA/S $0.26
Tower (TWR) SP $ 2.33 NTA/S $1.10

[u]Banks are the same</u>

ANZ (ANZ) SP $31.50 NTA/S $10.38
Westpac (WBC) SP $28.30 NTA/S $9.94

The bigger the gap between SP and NTA reflects on how well management perform in making profit from borrowed money and yet still remain at a low level of perceived risk to its investors.

AS one can see from these quick examples the Banks are not much different and yet the NZ public's perception of a Bank is far superior to that of a Finance Company.


[u]Now the interesting thing with DPC is SP $1.61 NTA/S $1.92</u> !!!!!
In theory this says that if the Banking /Finance market had a major collapse tommorrow DPC would be the only surviver.

This anomally has been around for years with this share. DPC has been ripe for the picking for many years and probaly was the reason that Hugh Green jumped in many years ago.
He too is still waiting...He is probably wishing now that he had a time machine. :)

Phaedrus
05-07-2007, 11:13 AM
quote:TA & FA conflict extremely here.
FA says "Buy".
TA says "Not yet".
I don't see any conflict!

hairdresser
05-07-2007, 11:45 AM
I don't understand the share price action at all with DPC.

Looks like a buy but looked like a buy a few months ago as well but the SP keeps dropping.

Its so thinly traded its hard to get a read on whats happening.

All the decent volume moves have been down which sort of indicates that there are no buyers out there [excepting DPC itself].

Higher interest rates do hurt lenders though as they usually borrow short and lend long so their average COF will be rising faster than their average lending rate so their lending margin will be dropping, but with the sort of fees and rates that second tier guys charge this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

hairdresser
05-07-2007, 11:48 AM
PS That DPC are buying back sort of indicates

1. That they don't have any cash flow problems and
2. That they think they can get a beter return on their own shares than from lending their cash out.

Bling_Bling
05-07-2007, 03:01 PM
quote:Originally posted by Hoop

.


[u]Now the interesting thing with DPC is SP $1.61 NTA/S $1.92</u> !!!!!
In theory this says that if the Banking /Finance market had a major collapse tommorrow DPC would be the only surviver.




Why did Bridecorp pay over $3 for DPC shares?

Hoop
05-07-2007, 05:50 PM
Why did Bridecorp pay over $3 for DPC shares?

Because they bought them cheaper than at their first attempt ;) They must have thought it was real bargain back then :D :D :D :D

A bit of investment humour from the past :D :D :D [}:)]

[u]Announcement 31-08-2004</u>
...After these transactions Bridgecorp held 19.99% of the voting rights in Dorchester, mostly acquired from King and entities under his control at $4.04 per share......

This deal never went ahead (Market shareprice at the time $2.75)

Bridgecorp entered in 2004 and accumulated in the last half of 2005 gaining about a 9% stake at about $2.50 a share up to 19.9% stake.
Hugh Green Inv also accumulated at the end of 2004, to control the Bridgecorp intended T/O.

Isn't hindsight amazing [8D]

Bling_Bling
06-07-2007, 08:53 AM
All these jokers.. Green, King, Bridge and St L Grp all paid a premium to the current share price, so there must be value in this pup.

dsurf
06-07-2007, 09:47 AM
The first post in this thread says it all - EPS down 33% - So SP should go down. Buybacks are artificial - the market rules - the market knows that finance companies are having their margins squeezed.
Don't worry about BKburger, ST L, HG etc

They are not going to invest more in an industry whose short term prospects look dreadful.

ie economic slowdown, retail investors facing cash crunch etc

see you at $1

dsurf
06-07-2007, 09:53 AM
Hoop
"Now the interesting thing with DPC is SP $1.61 NTA/S $1.92 !!!!!

NTA is $1.92 - does that assume all loans are collected. does that assume all deals work 100%. Does that assume property values (including head office at 20%??? of nta are valued fairly etc etc

What was bridgecorps NTA - Answer - it does not matter when you have no cash!!!!

dsurf
06-07-2007, 09:55 AM
also - no cash - no div - yield goes down - sp goes down - very simple formula

KJ
06-07-2007, 10:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by dsurf

also - no cash - no div - yield goes down - sp goes down - very simple formula


Absolutely true-no cash,can't pay bills,call receiver.
But what makes you think DPC are near this?

Hoop
06-07-2007, 11:56 AM
NTA is $1.92 - does that assume all loans are collected. does that assume all deals work 100%. Does that assume property values (including head office at 20%??? of nta are valued fairly etc etc

A fair question to which I can't answer with certainty. I think nowdays there are in place certain requirements for disclosure not like the bad old days where as an example Brierleys under Paul Collins control made their balance sheet look really good by overstating the value of their underperforming investments.

A piece from DPC annual report 31/03/2007 for what it's worth
...
5. Investments
Investments are recorded at current market value.
Investment Properties
Investment properties have been valued at net current value as determined every year by an independent registered valuer.
The basis of valuation is the market value less the estimated costs of disposal. Revaluation gains or losses have been
included in the net surplus for the year and the Statement of Financial Performance does not include a charge for
depreciation on investment properties.
Property Intended for Sale
Properties intended for sale are recognised at the lower of cost and net realisable value.

dsurf..I disagree about the no cash statement.. they have cash on hand and lots of it, about $23M, although less than the previous year.
They aren't producing cash (profit) but they are not asset burners either as the NTA has continued to rise each year.

I suspect that they will not be a large cash producer for a year or two. The reason may lie with the direction they are heading. They are shying away from high return risky loans (car loans, HP) for safer lower returns such as property. Also the reverse annuity mortgage (RAM) market is a very lucrative area that DPC is heading into, but in this area it takes time for the fruits to ripen. At the beginning money is sucked out to give to the oldies (backed by Kiwibank), the RAM costs and interest payable by the oldies is [u]deferred</u> until they die or 10 years whichever happens first. So in the short term with all the outgoings DPC income statement will look sick, but this is deceptive as it's monies is compounding so at the end of the day DPC will eventually realise a tidy return on their investments, but this will take a few years to materialise and slowly at first.

So you don't have to be a rocket scientist to deduce that the finance companies vultures will probably stay away (re: hostile T/O) until the income flows improve. The shareprice will be depressed and potentially undervalued in short to medium term unless some unusual activity causes a demand for them. ST L, VIK, Hugh Green, NZ economy, Govt, are the wildcards.

[u]Conclusion:</u> With the RAM being created,and a move to safer lower return investments, I would not blame management entirely for the poor rate of earnings and would not assume DPC is in poor health.

Disc Hold DPC.. may accumulate when the tide turns

Bling_Bling
07-07-2007, 10:34 AM
DPC should look at buying some Bridgecorp basement bargains.

Stranger_Danger
07-07-2007, 04:03 PM
No way! Too many cockroaches in that basement and many haven't been spotted yet.

dsurf
09-07-2007, 11:58 AM
KJ Posted - 06/07/2007 : 11:40:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by dsurf

also - no cash - no div - yield goes down - sp goes down - very simple formula

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Absolutely true-no cash,can't pay bills,call receiver.
But what makes you think DPC are near this?


KJ I do not think DPC are anywhere near calling in the receiver. I was just pointing out that if EPS falls then dividends will fall the the SP will fall.

Also they can keep the dividend up for a while with retained cash like Hellaby's did - however this has -ve growth implications.

Anyway you look at it - there are currently no reasons for the SP to increase.

Can anyone see any I am missing?

p.s. BKBurger reported that he sold his shares for circa $4 in a blatent attempt to convince the market they worth more. The transaction involved a hotel that was "valued". Values are artificial black box calculations that move with intertest rates, liquidity, "market prices" etc. NTA is valid for a break up proposition. Who is going to sell out? Who is going to undertake a T/O?

KJ
09-07-2007, 03:03 PM
dsurf-I have been a critic of the management of this coy in recent times.I think their performance has been pathetic.

However their cash position appears strong with Current Assets of $279m (including cash of $35m) & Current liabilities of $215m.On the surface it looks fine.The dividend paid was only around $3m-hardly a big imposition. So your point about "no cash" does not sound right

Their profit was impacted by one-offs of about $5m-without that their NPAT would have been about the same as last yr.With a new CEO you would expect a thorough check for one-offs.

Sure-in the short term their SP is likely to remain weak following the Bridgecorp collapse-I suggest all investment coys are currently affected by this right now.
Im fact the sp will remain weak until they start to show some positive signs of a turnaround-St L involvement should be helpful with perhaps a merger coming up.

dsurf
09-07-2007, 04:56 PM
St L are only involved because they lent Bridgecorp money. Now ST L are the saviour? If Bridgecorp had not had a couple of "one offs" in the last year they would have made (big guess) 20m?? like they did the year before.

JK DPC will not run out of cash - that was never my point - my point was that the share price is far more likely to continue to fall than recover.

As the thread says the SP is likely to disappoint.

Also - the new CEO's master strategy - RAM will invigorate the company just like the backwards D logo

Going backwards all right - shareholders getting rammed!!!!!

KJ
10-07-2007, 09:37 AM
quote:Originally posted by dsurf

also - no cash - no div - yield goes down - sp goes down - very simple formula


Fair enough but from your quote above you can see how I thought that you considered that cash was a problem for them.From your above comment aren't you saying that the SP will fall as a consequence of "no cash"?

dsurf
19-07-2007, 07:35 AM
KJ - The "no cash" does not relate to solvency - I am not suggesting that. It means less funds for re-investment, lower EPS, lower div's etc

The herald article today quoting St Lawrence sums it up well below.

'Flight to quality' tipped to hit all but best finance companies
5:00AM Thursday July 19, 2007
By Adam Bennett


St Laurence managing director Kevin Podmore.
Higher interest rates mean the "flight to quality" following the Bridgecorp collapse will hit finance companies harder than the three failures last year, says finance group St Laurence.

[b]Bridgecorp's receivership has sparked fears that other finance companies will suffer a squeeze on funding as investors divert money to safer havens such as top tier finance firms and banks, as was seen following the collapse of Provincial Finance, National Finance 2000 and Western Bay Finance last year.

Now it can be argued that DPC is a top finance company - however the public are not well informed and think wrongly that Rod Petrovich is involved with DPC. It is not all the publics fault - BKBurger did sell 20% to Petrovich in such a badly promoted deal that the media have been all over it. This deal is why DPC SP has halved.

Is DPC entering buying territory - Not yet - too much bad sentiment re: finance companies.

Will VIK step up and bail them out - No too busy bailing out BIO!!!

Hoop
03-08-2007, 08:37 AM
The smoke is clearing as to why this stock has had selling pressure recently. It's BK exiting the scene
So the power base is now down to two, Hugh Green and StLaurence.

This is good news for DPC and I never thought I would be thanking BIO for anything ever again...just goes to show how quickly times can change in the life of an investor.

Quote from NZ herald 3rd Aug:-
Keen observers of listed finance company Dorchester Pacific have noted cornerstone shareholder Viking Capital has been selling stock on market. Trading at just $1.30 yesterday, Dorchester is well below the levels at which Viking first bought in (above $2). The strategic importance of Viking's 9 per cent stake has diminished since the other big shareholders, Hugh Green and St Laurence Group, bought out Bridgecorp back in April to lock up control. If Viking's Brent King ever had serious designs on recapturing Dorchester (which he originally founded) he must have well and truly given up on them now.

Dorchester is in the middle of a share buyback so most likely everything Viking sells is going back to Dorchester and further strengthening Hugh Green's control.

The selling may have something to do with helping out biotech company ICP BIO, in which Viking also has a 9 per cent stake.

Phaedrus
03-08-2007, 09:57 AM
Update of chart on Page 5 of this thread :-
http://h1.ripway.com/Phaedrus/DPC83.gif

Lizard
03-08-2007, 12:12 PM
Phaedrus,

If you don't mind me asking, why do you choose to draw support there? It doesn't seem like a particularly meaningful level, since it is over 4 years ago and only touched once. I can't find any particularly combination of number crunching that suggests this particular level either. What am I missing?

Why not go back to the long period 6-7 years ago where support was around $1?

Phaedrus
03-08-2007, 12:45 PM
I'm trying really hard to offer some vestige of hope to the poor sods that have been holding this stock over the last 3 years as the downtrend has progressed. What with a falling OBV, falling Stochastic and falling QStick oscillators, it's difficult to find any hopeful possibilities at all at this point.
I would agree with you that the $1 support level is probably more meaningful, but these shareholders have been through a lot. One thing at a time - let's see if this one holds or not before worrying about the next.

dsurf
03-08-2007, 01:43 PM
Direct broking are reporting a yield of 6.2% for DPC

1$ SP looking very good. I for one would rather earn 8% in the bank at minimal risk.

Nitaa
03-08-2007, 04:45 PM
I feel for all the DPC staff who took up the offer to buy shares when the price was over $2.50

whatsup
14-08-2007, 04:20 PM
WOW down to $1.15 what ahuge drop[ from $2.60, wonder what Hewui Greene thinks of this

hairdresser
14-08-2007, 04:42 PM
I wering if their counting unpaid acrrued interest as revenue??

glennj
14-08-2007, 06:36 PM
Wow! First time I've looked at this thread for months. Sold out completely back in March & while I didn't time it right $2.13 is a lot better than the $1.15 mentioned above. Had held since 2002 for an annualised return of around 23&#37;
Curious as to whether there is trouble at DPC or if it is all the other trouble in the sector affecting sentiment?

AMR
21-08-2007, 10:32 AM
Any supports below $1? Nathan's Finance hit this one pretty hard this morning. It would be ok as a value stock when the sector finally recovers.

Hoop
21-08-2007, 10:46 AM
has hit good quality DFH (Dominion Finance) as well... 5.6% down :(

Phaedrus
21-08-2007, 11:01 AM
The downtrend continues.

http://h1.ripway.com/Phaedrus/DPC821.gif

trendy
21-08-2007, 11:16 AM
Question: Is DPC related to Direct Broking? Who do Direct Broking have a relationship with?

trendy
21-08-2007, 11:24 AM
I think I found the answer! It was the Dorchester Call Account.

This doesn't look to reassuring though! Are they safe?

"Units are subject to investment risk, including possible delays in repayment and loss of income and principal invested."

http://www.directbroking.co.nz/directtrade/static/cma.aspx

INVESTMENT AND ADMINISTRATION

Dorchester Funds Management Limited is the issuer and manager of the Direct Broking Call Account. Direct Broking Limited (a wholly owned subsidiary of ANZ National Bank Limited) has been delegated day-to-day management responsibility in respect of the Direct Broking Call Account. Units in the Direct Broking Call Account do not represent deposits or other liabilities of ANZ National Bank Limited or Direct Broking Limited. Units are subject to investment risk, including possible delays in repayment and loss of income and principal invested. No member of the ANZ National Bank Limited group (which includes Direct Broking Limited), New Zealand Permanent Trustees Limited or any other person guarantees (either partially or fully) Dorchester Funds Management Limited or the capital value or performance of any product issued by them.

foodee
21-08-2007, 11:24 AM
Wow, looks more like a mineshaft - haven't seen one this steep before!:eek:

dsurf
21-08-2007, 01:33 PM
$1 here we come - good value? You would need to be an insider to know that. Meanwhile TA suggests $1 coming soon.

thereslifeafter87
21-08-2007, 02:02 PM
DPC could be a solid contrarian play.

Trading at close to half book value, with quite a liquid balance sheet (see notes 7 and 9 to the annual report).

I don't see too much risk of the company going bankrupt even if they can't roll over their debenture stock.

Worst case could see a few years of losses and some restructuring costs if their loan book is constrained by a lack of investors for finance co debentures.

Profitability in the medium term is unlikely to be good with rising interest rates suppressing demand for consumer and property lending, and increasing the costs of servicing the debt required for such lending.

However, purely on a book value basis, the company looks interesting.

I could be a buyer if the sp keeps heading South.

hairdresser
21-08-2007, 04:48 PM
Around half their loan book is in motor vehicles, a segment that has been hit pretty hard over the last 24 months.

They also have $139m of loans due to be repaid before end of Sep.

If there has been little impairment of the due assets they should be OK.

With the current markets view on finance cos it may be prudent to wait till the downslide is over or at least until you get some confidence in quality of the MV assets. If they have bad news in September its likely the SP will tank further.

Hoop
23-08-2007, 07:09 AM
At last there is a NZX enquiry...should've happened way back when it was at $1.60 something.

DPC commented there is nothing that the market does not already know. They admit having a divestment of funds but it they have not mentioned the extent of any damage caused...no mention = riding out the storm reasonably well (disclosure rules).

Typical !! NZX tardiness!! Ditched half of my shares a few days ago after a paranoid market finally unrattled me in making me think something more sinister was out there that I didn't know about but the NZX did. Cancelled the rest of my sell order this morning.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/12/story.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=10459341

thereslifeafter87
23-08-2007, 10:27 AM
Around half their loan book is in motor vehicles, a segment that has been hit pretty hard over the last 24 months.

They also have $139m of loans due to be repaid before end of Sep.

If there has been little impairment of the due assets they should be OK.

With the current markets view on finance cos it may be prudent to wait till the downslide is over or at least until you get some confidence in quality of the MV assets. If they have bad news in September its likely the SP will tank further.


They have $139m of debentures to repay, but even with large amounts of impairment there is plenty of room in their receivables to cover that amount.

Obviously the lower the SP goes, the greater the margin of safety.

I like management commentary regarding the motor vehicle loans and moving away from them, and that being reflected in a fall in MV loans as a percentage of total loans between the 06-07 years.

One issue is that a large asset on the balance sheet is the investment in St Laurence. I haven't looked into this in detail, but it is a private company is it not? As such I would assume it wouldn't have much freely available information regarding its financial health? This could be one factor that would make it difficult to really get a feel for the strength (or lack thereof) of DPC's underlying asset base.

hairdresser
23-08-2007, 10:42 AM
I dont think there in any meaningful risk of default.

But they have been generating good returns from the MV segment.

A lot of loans are due for repayment, which will imapct on profitability unless they are replaced with new loans.

Agressively chasing new loans may mean taking on greater risk.

investment the in St Lawrence IMO is not too risky.


As a standalone I'd wait to see how much of their provisioning they are able to write back, and where there new loans are coming from.

Also St Lawrence may want to make some sort of play for these guys at some stage [amalgamation most likely], the result would be a much stronger company, it may be worth taking a position on that alone.

POSSUM THE CAT
23-08-2007, 12:32 PM
Their holding in St Laurence is my worry with Dorchester. As the lack of imformation make me think it is not as good a company as people seem to think it is.

thereslifeafter87
23-08-2007, 01:05 PM
Hairdresser, if you check the annual report, they have pretty much no provisioning. They have taken a one-off hit, writing off a pile of bad debts.

Revenue may fall due to not taking on as many new motor vehicle loans (they have said they want to move away from their central focus on the MV market), however one would expect margins to improve due to more disciplined lending practices.

If write offs next year are more in line with '06, we could see a return to operating profitability, and possibly a significan increase in the SP given that NTA is 1.86.

hairdresser
23-08-2007, 02:49 PM
St Laurence recognises $26m in interest revenue but only $18m in interest payments were received as cash. ie capitalised interest of $8m for the year. I don't know if 31&#37; capitalised interest is normal for finance companies or not, but it is up from 28% in the 2006 year.

I suppose the risk is that they won't know until the projects are completed and fully repaid.

p2r
23-08-2007, 06:23 PM
St Laurence Ltd is on NZX (STL - fixed interest notes) and you can find their annual report to March 2007 there or on the website. Pretty sound and well prepared for a credit crunch - I think STL are better placed than DPC.
I am not sure why they are so close whether STL had to buy into DPC to get their money back from Bridgecorp or whether it is all part of a masterplan. There have been some changes at STL in the last year director left etc so that may be a factor.

hairdresser
23-08-2007, 07:58 PM
These guys appear to be pretty cashed up

Note 23
Loans being repaid in current QTR = $119m
Debentures being repaid in current QTR = $57m
Cash at balance date = $53m
If new lending = new debentures
Then they should have around $120m in cash.

Current market cap of DPC = $40m

Hmmmmmm

SMan
23-08-2007, 10:45 PM
Well I'm a DPC shareholder as of yesterday. Jumped on once it hit the $1 mark, kind of an arbitrary price but hey :). Seems to be a bit more support as of today and with news of forecast $6M target for next year the SP should rally. If as you say hairdresser DPC were to 'cashup' to $120M they would also have ontop of this their stake in STL who have a reported equity of ~$160M. So Dorchester is holding a quarter of this (= ~$40M when market capital for Dorchester alone is <$40M??). STL seems to be profitable but the main earning are unrealised of ~$30M. Dorchesters stake in STL is more of a long-term investment rather than a cash cow. For STL it would be the opposite (Dorchester dividens providing cash for the day-to-day cash flow of STL). Aside from low consumer and investor confidence (which will hold the SP low in the short-med term) DPC looks (on paper at least) to be a real nice long-term investment.

Anyone got any info on STL shareholders?

hairdresser
24-08-2007, 09:12 AM
Aha

Selling off the MV loan book valued at $147m. Probably at a significant discount to book maybe 10-30&#37; ... Look forward to seeing their response to the NZX request.

If they're making 7.3% GM [their avearage overall lending margin, MV margins are likely to be higher] on the MV loans it will hit their GM by around $10.7m. Of course this may not be as bad as the write down they take on selling the book.

Selling a few reverse mortgages will not replace this income overnight.

$32m of Equity investments current valuation may be a little lower.

Capital adequacy must be pretty tight.

This would probably explain the recent decline in the SP.

Good luck to holders....

thereslifeafter87
24-08-2007, 10:25 AM
Aha

Selling off the MV loan book valued at $147m. Probably at a significant discount to book maybe 10-30% ... Look forward to seeing their response to the NZX request.

If they're making 7.3% GM [their avearage overall lending margin, MV margins are likely to be higher] on the MV loans it will hit their GM by around $10.7m. Of course this may not be as bad as the write down they take on selling the book.

Selling a few reverse mortgages will not replace this income overnight.

$32m of Equity investments current valuation may be a little lower.

Capital adequacy must be pretty tight.

This would probably explain the recent decline in the SP.

Good luck to holders....

Where does it say they are selling the MV loan book?

DPC said it is exiting the sector. It may just allow the loans to run-off over their lifetime. The company wouldn't be able to achieve $6m NPAT if it had big write-downs from a sale of the MV loans at less than book value.

See PFG's announcement this morning - this could put more downward pressure on DPC.

POSSUM THE CAT
24-08-2007, 10:57 AM
p2r I am no lawyer or accountant so if you have the knowledge to unravel the mess of interlinked companies and funds I would appreciate it. Such as which owns what and who do they owe money to. Why all this smoke & mirror approach is needed please explain.

hairdresser
24-08-2007, 11:06 AM
From Stuff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4175700a13.html

"..The company is also pulling out of financing for the Auckland used car market and is already in discussion with a number of parties on a restructuring or sale of this part of the business."

thereslifeafter87
24-08-2007, 07:09 PM
p2r I am no lawyer or accountant so if you have the knowledge to unravel the mess of interlinked companies and funds I would appreciate it. Such as which owns what and who do they owe money to. Why all this smoke & mirror approach is needed please explain.

Just read the notes to the annual report. It outlines it.

thereslifeafter87
24-08-2007, 07:12 PM
From Stuff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4175700a13.html

"..The company is also pulling out of financing for the Auckland used car market and is already in discussion with a number of parties on a restructuring or sale of this part of the business."

Ah, ok.

It will be interesting to see the result of this.

whatsup
27-08-2007, 09:30 AM
I see that viking is down 25% on thin trade todat any prizes for guessing as to why?

hairdresser
27-08-2007, 09:38 AM
VIK dumped 25&#37; of their holding in DPC on Thursday at 1.12.

You would expect Mr King to have a pretty good handle on the DPC business.

Nitaa
27-08-2007, 10:29 AM
VIK dumped 25% of their holding in DPC on Thursday at 1.12.

You would expect Mr King to have a pretty good handle on the DPC business.I havent had a read of the year end report. One thing that does surprise me is the $6m profit. Given the turmoil with finance companies of late this result seems unusually high. this gives the company a great earnings per share but somewhere in the murky waters is the true picture imo.

an accoutant might be able to help me on this one.. im thinking on these lines especially with a lot of default payments especially in the MV finance sector. an account receivable is money owed and on face vaule may look good on the books...is this a true reflection on the company's position? especially if many of these loans have been written off as a bad debt so to speak. im not sure if i have explained it well enough but it does seem like an unexpected higher profit given the months long problem in the mv sector and other underpeforming areas.

it reminds me a couple of the lines commonly used by prostitutes and accountants. a guy ask a prostitite what her name is and her reply is ..what do you want it to be? a md ask his accountant what the profit for the financial year and his/her reply is...how much do you want it to be?

hairdresser
27-08-2007, 11:02 AM
I don't see anyway they can make an operating profit for the next 12 months. They should be able to maintain solvency but there business model relies of writing new loans, not just collecting on the old ones. This applies to all finance companies.

IMO they will be looking to book a profit on sale of assets, its hard to see them returning an operating profit with the loss of $10m in interest margin on the sale of their MV business. If anyone has any ideas of where they can replace this income from without chasing risky loans there are be a lot of directors from many finance companies waiting to hear from you.

IMO this share is highly speculative even at the current SP.

Hoop
27-08-2007, 11:05 AM
Nita
$6M profit sounds reasonable, (MV business not sold yet and it's 1/2 way thru the 2008 financial year) Last year it was $8m less $5M writedowns.

More interesting is BK and Viking...they don't hold a blocking stake in DPC anymore. Current &#37; held : 8.0152793
Last % held : 10.6313

Methinks it was a reluctant sale...needed cash for BIO ????

Nitaa
27-08-2007, 11:12 AM
hoop. i tend to agree. next year writedowns could be somewhat significant

thereslifeafter87
27-08-2007, 02:36 PM
I havent had a read of the year end report. One thing that does surprise me is the $6m profit. Given the turmoil with finance companies of late this result seems unusually high. this gives the company a great earnings per share but somewhere in the murky waters is the true picture imo.

an accoutant might be able to help me on this one.. im thinking on these lines especially with a lot of default payments especially in the MV finance sector. an account receivable is money owed and on face vaule may look good on the books...is this a true reflection on the company's position? especially if many of these loans have been written off as a bad debt so to speak. im not sure if i have explained it well enough but it does seem like an unexpected higher profit given the months long problem in the mv sector and other underpeforming areas.

it reminds me a couple of the lines commonly used by prostitutes and accountants. a guy ask a prostitite what her name is and her reply is ..what do you want it to be? a md ask his accountant what the profit for the financial year and his/her reply is...how much do you want it to be?


They took a big bath with massive bad debt write offs last year. The NPAT result this year will be boosted by that.

thereslifeafter87
27-08-2007, 02:38 PM
DPC might also be factoring in expected gains from the sale of the properties they have mentioned in announcements - this would add to profit, allowing them to report higher earnings.

Balance
27-08-2007, 06:15 PM
I see that viking is down 25% on thin trade todat any prizes for guessing as to why?

Try figure - VIK was buying/topping up DPC at over $2.00 right up to March this year and now selling out at $1.12. Desparate stuff - money to keep other investments afloat?

Guess the market is waking up to the fact that VIK has made some dreadful investments. ICP Bio is one and VIK was busy pumping in money via loans to find that it was broke and needed recapitalisation.

Dr_Who
28-08-2007, 12:37 PM
Nita
$6M profit sounds reasonable, (MV business not sold yet and it's 1/2 way thru the 2008 financial year) Last year it was $8m less $5M writedowns.

More interesting is BK and Viking...they don't hold a blocking stake in DPC anymore. Current % held : 8.0152793
Last % held : 10.6313

Methinks it was a reluctant sale...needed cash for BIO ????


Sell one dog at a huge lost to hold up another dog? What kind of investment strategy is that?

Hoop
28-08-2007, 01:19 PM
Sell one dog at a huge lost to hold up another dog? What kind of investment strategy is that?

No idea!!...not in my investment theories books :D :D
I don't think I would class DPC as a dog but it seems Mr Market has.
If it is a dog, it has a lot less fleas than BIO. DPC will survive, not sure about BIO survival chances, however.

BK is or was reputed to be an astute business person...not sure what he is up to at the moment, but he seems to have dug himself I bit of a hole. I would not write off BK yet, he has the ability to bounce back. I still regard him as a possible menace with DPC, but less so now.

Have you noticed....all investors in DPC have been stung in the last few years...talk about a poison chalice

dsurf
28-08-2007, 01:44 PM
"Have you noticed....all investors in DPC have been stung in the last few years...talk about a poison chalice"

Except for the largest insider BKburger who sold the poisoned wine as champagne at circa $2.80 to Rodney who is exceptional at two things: losing other peoples money and drinking champagne they have bought him

Nitaa
28-08-2007, 04:45 PM
on face value DPC looks a good investment to buy shares into. what their real position is a little hard to fathom therefore making it a huge gamble to buy into. another issue is that people investing into fixed deposits or other investments where they are only getting 1 or 2% higher than the banks are now getting cold feet.

imo dpc sp demise started to turn to custard around the time that bk and rp were doing some back room deals.

with regards to vik i think that he has become too desperate to chase the so called easy buck. set up his vik with stuff all. no direction, no forcasting. to me bk lost his soul when he started to deal with rp.

all said and dome dpc still looks the most solid of finance companies but i don't have the fanny to buy.. at least not in the next 12 months.

discl. brought this stock at $2.82 and sold for $2.50

dsurf
29-08-2007, 11:20 AM
VIK holds BIO & DPC shares as it's only sellable assets. I am assuming that since BIO is facing a huge funding problem, that VIK loans to BIO are probably unrecoverable unless BIO returns becomes profitable. Clearly it won't or it would have by now. This means that VIK can either sell DPC shares or go to the market for more money. Now is a terrible time to go to the market and admit a cash flow crunch for VIK so it would seem their only option is to keep on selling DPC. I am also assuming no-one would want to buy the loss making BIO assets.

easy money
30-08-2007, 08:45 AM
IS five star finance connected to dpc?

Toddy
31-08-2007, 12:32 PM
It's ok, it's a 'strategic' move. Yeah, right!

Dorchester pulls rug from subsidiary
New 1:01PM Friday August 31, 2007

Dorchester Pacific Finance has decided to stop funding its subsidiary Senate Finance Limited, which offers loans on used vehicles

With the recent collapse of seven finance companies, Dorchester is reassuring investors it is not in trouble.

Chief Executive Andrew Walker says the company is in negotiations to dispose of the Senate Finance loan book.

He says with finance companies falling over he is not worried about the timing of the move, which he says is a strategic one.

He says most people understand the decision has not been taken because the business is in trouble.

Dr_Who
31-08-2007, 01:18 PM
How much will it cost DPC to write off senate finance?

hairdresser
31-08-2007, 01:29 PM
As at 31 Mar 06 Dorcherster Finance Limited had made $134m in related party loans to Senate Finance and its subsidiaries.

Don't know what the current balance [2007 accounts not available] is but I'm guessing they haven't made much of a dent in the repayments...

dsurf
31-08-2007, 01:57 PM
At the 2006 AGM the cjhairman said they were "changing their lending mix" and showed a before and after pie chart that showed that their lending to the motor vehicle sector had decreased and the lending mix was "safer". It turned out that as loans expired they were not re-lent. The new chairman said this was a strategic move. What a pity a year later they are still exposed.

The other gem was the unvieling of a new corporate symbol. Drum roll....... A backward D

Fantastic!!!

These guys are terrible at spin. The whole management need removing from their "jobs for boys club"

Lizard
16-09-2007, 08:37 AM
I would agree with you that the $1 support level is probably more meaningful...

Interesting to note that DPC has bounced around that $1 level for about a month now.

Snapper
16-09-2007, 02:25 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4203454a1865.html

If you own a substantial chunk of a company which you want to sell off to finance another loss-making company why would you publicly slag off that company and run the risk of scaring away any potential buyers?

Is he that bitter and twisted that he just doesn't care? I think that DPC is potentially a company with good prospects but why would you touch it while all this is going on.

I feel sorry for all those Viking shareholders who bought in on the back of King's reputation. Time to bail while you still can.

Nitaa
16-09-2007, 07:17 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4203454a1865.html

If you own a substantial chunk of a company which you want to sell off to finance another loss-making company why would you publicly slag off that company and run the risk of scaring away any potential buyers?

Is he that bitter and twisted that he just doesn't care? I think that DPC is potentially a company with good prospects but why would you touch it while all this is going on.

I feel sorry for all those Viking shareholders who bought in on the back of King's reputation. Time to bail while you still can.yes king has lost the plot. this has become personal for him rather that make smart business decisions.

it all happened when he got offered a song for his shares to RiP from Bridgecorp. that deal came unstuck as it has turned to mud since.

king and his mate did well out of 42 below and imo was lured by the "easy money" from the use of other peoples money. one only has to look at his decisions since forming Viking to see that.

fast becoming a desperate man and we will hear more about him sooner rather than later.

SMan
02-10-2007, 02:39 PM
Any news of movement in this stock? Checked market depth today and the sell side has all but vanished along with very low volume in the past couple of weeks. Is everyone currently holding now in for the long haul? Or waiting to see how the VIK sale pans out?

blackcap
03-10-2007, 09:42 AM
Havnt VIK only got about 400,000 odd to go? Dont quote me on this but im sure someone would be keen to take that parcel at this price. Heck they could even announce another buyback and approach King personally. Wouldnt that be a nice touch :)

Phaedrus
03-10-2007, 01:40 PM
DPC has been in a downtrend for 3 years. There is now clear technical evidence that the bottom might have been reached. It is interesting to see that support was found at exactly $1.00, a level that held way back in 2000/2001. (Support is often found at round figures).

After a steady descent, DPC levelled out at $1.00 - $1.05 going sideways between these levels for a full month.

The downward trendline was broken on 14/9/07 and a 14 day Simple Moving Average was broken on 17/9/07. DPC continued to crab sideways.

Now, here's the interesting bit. Observe how the Slow Stochastic oscillator was climbing - and on 19/9/07 it broke above the 50% threshold. This indicator looks at the position of the Close in relation to the days Low and High. In other words, while the Close was not altering, selling pressure throughout the day had been lessening and people were not selling into the highs as they had been doing for so long. A subtle but clearly evident change.

Observe the QStick indicator. See how it broke into positive territory on 25/9/07. This indicator looks at the ratio of Up days to Down days. For the first time in quite a while, this indicator was showing that, on average, DPC was now having more Up days than Down days. Obvously this is Bullish. These 2 indicators picked up a change in sentiment so subtle that it had not affected the price at all. DPC continued to track along between $1.00 and $1.05, but nevertheless, market sentiment had changed.

The market has not closed yet, but so far today DPC has jumped from $1.04 to $1.20 (albeit on pathetic volume) This rise breaks above the resistance at $1.05 and the Trailing Short Stop as shown in the chart below.
http://h1.ripway.com/Phaedrus/DPC103.gif

Toddy
03-10-2007, 01:53 PM
Get back to us once the SP has closed above the breakout level for three trading sessions in a row on a reasonable OBV.

DPC is a dog with flees and the only way the SP is going to appreciate is if another dog like GPG comes along and knocks it up.

Dr_Who
03-10-2007, 02:04 PM
I ve been keeping a close on eye on DPC with a view to accumulating more shares. It seems like VIK has either finished selling for now. The only person pushing this stock down to these levels was VIK selling a large line and no large buyers to take it up. If VIK comes out selling again, it can go back down to $1. Very little liquidity and any buying/selling can move the SP. Must be hurting VIK to selling down DPC at a huge lost. Thank God I am not a VIK shareholder.

I dont think DPC is a dog under the right management. There are potential for DPC, but again, we need the right management to grow it.

DPC
27/08/2007
SSH

REL: 1019 HRS Dorchester Pacific Limited

SSH: DPC: SSH Notice From Viking Capital Limited

Beneficial
Total of Interest : 2929892
Current &#37; held : 8.0152793
Last % held : 10.6313
Names : Viking Capital Limited
Transaction Dates : 23/08/07
Total Votes : 400000
Considerations : 448000

Non Beneficial
Total of Interest :

Description :
On-market sale by Viking Capital Limited of 400,000 shares in Dorchester
Pacific Limited, sold at a price of $1.12 per share, being a total cash
consideration of $448,000.

Lizard
03-10-2007, 02:14 PM
I think DPC is a good contrarian value play. Though a little concerned about the longer term effect of recent events on finance company investor sentiment. Also not sure if investment funds might be transferred into cash management PIES rather than directly into debentures?

While organic growth in NPAT seems unlikely in the medium term, consolidation makes sense at these prices and also offers an opportunity for other finance companies to list via merger/acquisition.

Hoop
03-10-2007, 03:02 PM
[QUOTE=Toddy;167417]....DPC is a dog with flees.... QUOTE]


I disagree :)

Deev8
03-10-2007, 03:27 PM
DPC is a dog with flees and the only way the SP is going to appreciate is if another dog like GPG comes along and knocks it up.Who could argue with a well-reasoned point of view like that?

SMan
03-10-2007, 04:32 PM
The jump is SP was started by a small parcel of shares this morning offered at $1.2 which seems an arbritrary price but someone DID buy a 2% stake at $1.12 when VIK offloaded part of their holding. Interesting to see a further $30k changed hands at this price in a run of small trades... The 'buy' side has moved little and still sits around the $1.05 - $1.07 mark. From what I can figure VIK still have 80% of their holding to sell... watch for the price to continue sideways/downtrend.

rimu
04-10-2007, 09:34 AM
the $1.2 trade(s) looks like an anomaly to me; it's only a couple thousand $ worth. if i was to buy, i'd wait till vic starts selling

Dr_Who
11-10-2007, 11:09 AM
DPC should merge with St L and other major finance players in the market to form a large competitive finance firm.

Billy Boy
11-10-2007, 11:25 AM
the $1.2 trade(s) looks like an anomaly to me; it's only a couple thousand $ worth. if i was to buy, i'd wait till vic starts selling

VIC only have about 1.9% left to sell and they will be below that 5% mark. Then there
will be no more need to inform the market.
BB

Hoop
15-11-2007, 06:04 PM
Someone is doing funny buggers with the share price.
Last trade at 5.00pm was for 89 cents down 9...number of shares sold 25 !!!!!

A good chance the HYR report will be released tomorrow.

Liz........Kinda makes you nostalgic doesn't it... last year with BIO

dsurf
16-11-2007, 08:57 AM
This is one strange stock - Large holder VIK owns a large chunk & tells the market he is selling - no wonder there are no buyers!! King has lost it - glad I am not into VIK - Not many fund mangers talk down there holdings!

Dr_Who
16-11-2007, 09:46 AM
This is one strange stock - Large holder VIK owns a large chunk & tells the market he is selling - no wonder there are no buyers!! King has lost it - glad I am not into VIK - Not many fund mangers talk down there holdings!

I am with you on this one. Why would someone with a large holding in a illiquid stock go around talking down the company and depressing the price? It will be hard for VIK to raise any further funds in the future with the way they have handled their current investments. Thank God I am not a VIK shareholder.


disc: DPC shareholder

blackcap
16-11-2007, 11:21 AM
I see that he has sold another 50K at 92 cents today.

Well im presuming its VIK. Beyond belief really. Read the VIK address at the agm and you will be astounded :)

Stranger_Danger
16-11-2007, 12:05 PM
Far out, you're right - I hadn't read the AGM address. Were they handing round crack at the meeting??

Disc : None.

Dr_Who
16-11-2007, 12:29 PM
Just read the VIK agm. ..LOL. They must have had a good smoke before the agm.

BlackPeter
17-11-2007, 04:27 PM
I think it was Robert Heinlein saying "never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - but I am still wondering who could gain from VIK talking (and selling) DPC down? For every seller there must be a buyer - and over the last months a continuous flow of DPC shares changed hands.

Just imagine somebody might be interested in a takeover (the NTA does not look to bad - 186 cts for a 90 cts share!, and some of the business parts (reverse mortgage) look like growth) - wouldn't it be clever if somebody else invests a bit of money to first talk and sell the shareprice down?

Any idea where all these shares (sold by VIK and others) are going?

Nitaa
17-11-2007, 04:51 PM
This is going to be a very interesting story. To me, all things arent as they seem. There are many possibilities and one that stands out is a possible takeover. It doesnt make sense for BK to openly crtiticise DPC when he is telling the market they are going to sell. Could this mean that he is trying to scare the SP into submission and then come along as the white knight? The other end of it is he just taking the whole thing way to personal. Generally BK is a very smart man with contacts in the right places. But if he does have sour grapes does that mean that his rational under pressure is being exposed. Personally i dont know but there is plenty more to come.

Looking through the VIK address its clear that BK is talking about all the wonderful things that they are doing. In the end i really do wonder how much time and effort is going in. One thing looks certain, BK is taking the pss out of the investors and only thinking about his own pocket.

Does anyone have any real insight on whats going on? In all honesty i dont expect anyone who does to opening come out with it as the information is too valuable.

Nitaa
17-11-2007, 04:53 PM
I think it was Robert Heinlein saying "never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - but I am still wondering who could gain from VIK talking (and selling) DPC down? For every seller there must be a buyer - and over the last months a continuous flow of DPC shares changed hands.

Just imagine somebody might be interested in a takeover (the NTA does not look to bad - 186 cts for a 90 cts share!, and some of the business parts (reverse mortgage) look like growth) - wouldn't it be clever if somebody else invests a bit of money to first talk and sell the shareprice down?

Any idea where all these shares (sold by VIK and others) are going?That is the $64m question. It could all be a setup for an eventual takover. Watch this space.

blackcap
18-11-2007, 09:03 PM
a takeover would be near impossible with St Laurence holding 19.9% and Hugh Green holding 19.9% so that is out of the question im afraid

shasta
18-11-2007, 09:11 PM
a takeover would be near impossible with St Laurence holding 19.9% and Hugh Green holding 19.9% so that is out of the question im afraid

Agree there Blackcap, DPC is in the same boat as RBC, both having more than one blocking stake...

A classic mexican standoff, & will depend on who wants it bad enough.

My take is HG will go but only at the right price, & DPC will be swamped by STL.

$2 would do it IMO.

Hoop
19-11-2007, 12:18 PM
Yes agree hostile T/O impossible.
Shasta yes ...DPC is being slowly merged (or swamped).

A quasi- T/O, in my opinion.

A great defense from a hostile T/O is to emerge with a stronger friend. So exit stage right BK.

I predict more companies merging into this one in some shape or form....then a mix and match....in a couple of years DPC will be a different breed of animal. I don't think the shareholders will have much power to prevent the morphing either.

Happens in nature.........create a herd---safety in numbers.

Nitaa
19-11-2007, 12:38 PM
I guess your right that a takeover is unlikely. But look what happened to BK when he owned a sizable chunk. Maybe HHG and SL are just letting this play out and let the small or desperate holders bail. To me HHG especially are too smart just to see the demise of DPC unless there is a bigger plan.

Dr_Who
19-11-2007, 01:10 PM
This is a good time for STL and other sizable quality finance firms to use DPC as a backdoor listing. Merger is the key.

POSSUM THE CAT
19-11-2007, 02:43 PM
DR Who why do you consider STL a quality finance company. Since the cross share holding between STL & DPC the price has gone backwards dramatically. It seems to me that this tie up was a disaster for DPC

p2r
19-11-2007, 05:21 PM
St Laurence’s B2 Credit Rating Reaffirmed
11th October 2007

www.stlaurence.co.nz/archive.php?CatID=1&report=1

Property-based finance and funds management company St Laurence Limited (SLL) has had its B2 investment grade rating reconfirmed from New Zealand credit rating agency Axis Ratings Limited.

Axis Ratings performed a full quantitative and qualitative review on St Laurence Limited providing an updated rating on the company, and its secured debenture stock of 12 month maturity from the date of the report (16 September 2007).

Axis Ratings says the B2 rating reflects that St Laurence Limited is of “good quality” and “generally moderate risk”. SLL is currently operating at 70% of its optimum potential and continues to perform well in comparison to its international peer group in the financial services sectors, performing better than 78% of its peers.

SLL managing director Kevin Podmore says the rating demonstrates the benefits of St Laurence's diversified finance and funds management operations (from acquisitions made in 2006) and its sound lending and financial position and performance. The rating also highlights St Laurence’s strong approach to liquidity management including ensuring that its average deposit maturities are longer than its average loan maturities.

In the current market conditions investors can have confidence that St Laurence Limited is well placed to meet its commitments. “This full credit rating is aimed at providing a guide for investors for the next year and takes into account more difficult trading conditions. Having our credit rating reaffirmed at B2 investment grade level given the more challenging market conditions we are facing is pleasing and a credit to our management team,” Mr Podmore says.

Mr Podmore says in the past 18 months the company has worked hard to prepare for tougher times by diversifying and strengthening its asset base, income streams, equity and liquidity. In 2006 the company acquired a number of funds management entities to transform itself into a diversified property-based funds management and lending business.

“We are different to other companies operating in the sector in that we have both funds management and finance operations. As a result the company receives significant income from wider sources of revenue, including long-term funds management contracts,” Mr Podmore says.

St Laurence Limited expects to continue to generate a significant portion of its overall income from non-lending income streams by continuing to diversify the businesses’ revenue streams in the next 12 months.

Other strengths noted in the analysis include sound debt management, positive profit performance, healthy return on capital employed and equity invested, and its solid solvency position.

St Laurence Limited recorded a net surplus after tax of $15.2 million for the year ended 31 March 2007, a significant increase from $5.4 million for the 2006 year. Total consolidated revenue was $49.1 million, an increase of 79.1% on the $27.4 million recorded in the previous corresponding period. Assets rose 44.6% to $327.6 million. The company now has total assets under management in excess of $1.2 billion. Equity for St Laurence Limited has increased by $33.3 million over the period, or 162% on the previous $20.5 million, resulting in a new equity ratio of around 16.4%.

The ratings evaluation also credited SLL for its strong board and executive management team, in particular its three independent directors enhancing the strength of the board and protecting external stakeholder interests.

The report notes the Company’s transparency and open communication with its investors, financial advisers and other stakeholders. St Laurence has recently completed its annual roadshow with presentations to around 2,000 investors and advisers in 11 locations across New Zealand.

St Laurence’s lending business is backed by mortgages over property or property related assets, with the average loan to valuation ratio across the portfolio 64% as at 31 March 2007. “St Laurence has well defined lending processes and an effective internally developed credit scoring system to assist in the loan evaluation and approval process,” according to Axis Ratings. Axis Ratings also commented that St Laurence’s overall growth in lending has been strong in more challenging market conditions.

The company has recently renewed its prospectus and investment statement with its latest financial information. As part of this update St Laurence announced that it has removed the ability for prior charges (such as those securing bank debt) to be registered in priority to its first ranking secured debenture stock.

Axis Ratings’ credit rating remains in effect until September 2008, unless withdrawn or amended by Axis Ratings before that date.

shasta
19-11-2007, 05:28 PM
DR Who why do you consider STL a quality finance company. Since the cross share holding between STL & DPC the price has gone backwards dramatically. It seems to me that this tie up was a disaster for DPC

Possum, the hidden value in DPC is in the rather complex insurance business.

This has been underperforming for a long time, but BK knows theres value in it, as does HG.

DPC is likely to be carved up whoever gets it...

Deev8
19-11-2007, 05:45 PM
why do you consider STL a quality finance company. Since the cross share holding between STL & DPC the price has gone backwards dramatically. It seems to me that this tie up was a disaster for DPCIt's a bit of a stretch to suggest that St Laurence’s shareholding has been responsible for the decline in Dorchester's share price.

Of course the alternative would have been that Bridgecorp continued to hold those shares. I don't think that Dorchester would have fared any better if that had happened.

Dr_Who
20-11-2007, 06:17 AM
STL is the white knight for DPC. The worst thing to happen to DPC was Bridgecorp coming in and then VIK selling down its holding at silly prices. The finance industry is going through restructuring and consolidation. There are great opportunities to accummulate some very cheap assets in this environment.

Dr_Who
26-11-2007, 07:27 AM
LOL ...what a joke!

Dorchester Pacific investment helps drag Viking Capital down
5:00AM Monday November 26, 2007

Viking Capital lost $3.5 million in the six months to December - better than previously forecast - because of a writedown on its investment in finance company Dorchester Pacific.

The investment company said on Friday that Dorchester's shares almost halved during the trading period.

The 7 per cent stake was written down by $4.3 million. The shares were on Viking's books at $2.29 each at March 31, but closed on Friday at 90c.

"We continue to actively sell the parcel, as stated previously, the decision making of Dorchester continues to disappoint," Viking chairman Brent King said. "The statements from Dorchester give some hope of them returning to profitability and regaining market confidence.

"When this occurs the price should return to at least net asset value." King said he was pleased with Viking's stake in Investment Research Group, which he said had made substantial progress over the past six months.

Its other big investment, ICP Bio, "had continued to make substantial progress in the six-month period with the balance sheet being significantly restructured".

King said Viking would have had a profitable period but for the Dorchester writedown.

He estimated Viking's net assets at 23c against its share price of 16c.

The company's balance sheet was very strong and the company was in a position to look at new investment opportunities, King said.

"We are positive for the second six months and there are some interesting opportunities being presented to Viking Capital."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/3/story.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10478273

blackcap
26-11-2007, 01:13 PM
We continue to actively sell the parcel, as stated previously, the decision making of Dorchester continues to disappoint," Viking chairman Brent King said. "The statements from Dorchester give some hope of them returning to profitability and regaining market confidence.

"When this occurs the price should return to at least net asset value."


Thats the statement I cant make head or tail of! Then why are you selling Viking?

dsurf
26-11-2007, 01:41 PM
We continue to actively sell the parcel, as stated previously, the decision making of Dorchester continues to disappoint," Viking chairman Brent King said. "The statements from Dorchester give some hope of them returning to profitability and regaining market confidence.

"When this occurs the price should return to at least net asset value."


Thats the statement I cant make head or tail of! Then why are you selling Viking?

Because he has lost it!! He is no longer rational or he would not be hell bent on dropping the DPC shareprice - unless he has a warchest for a takeover at 50c

Nitaa
26-11-2007, 02:46 PM
All things are not what they seem. Clearly something doesnt add up unless there is another agenda. Watch this space.

I agree that BK has lost it and is becoming desperate. He is also stooping to lower levels than his made did from Bridgecorp

bermuda
26-11-2007, 03:04 PM
All things are not what they seem. Clearly something doesnt add up unless there is another agenda. Watch this space.

I agree that BK has lost it and is becoming desperate. He is also stooping to lower levels than his made did from Bridgecorp

I havent studied DPC but I was speaking to someone in the know who told me things are settling down but its hard when your enquiries have been knocked 60%.

Says it all I think

Nitaa
26-11-2007, 04:52 PM
I also know someone very high up in DPC except they are not on the board. So what is really happening is still speculation on my part.

One thing is for sure that if BK smells a real opportunity then he has the people and resources to make something out of it.

Dr_Who
27-11-2007, 07:44 AM
Please explain more Nita. I dont see how VIK can benefit from deliberately talking down and selling down DPC shares. The T/O opportunities have been blocked by STL and HG. I am bit confused here.

Nitaa
27-11-2007, 09:36 AM
maybe not viking as such but what about bk himself?

well first question to me is, what is bk trying to do? I know there are a couple of significant holders in dpc but what is happening doesnt add up. It is plain dumb if he is only bagging to co at his personal expense and at Vik expense. Is he backed into a corner with his holdings? but he could also be doing a sly with one or both of the substantial holders as well. suck out all the nervous nellies and then get the big boys to take over. even if he is not directly related to it.

I am not sure.. i am still trying to piece together what is around the corner. Its also worth mentioning that many of his ex colloegues have brought into this company when it was trading at around $2.60 These are his so called mates that he is effectively shtting on. Another reason why i dont trust him one little bit

Dr_Who
27-11-2007, 11:36 AM
As a shareholder myself, I hope you are right that there is a corporate play angle in it. But it is hard for me to see how BK comes into it when there are cornerstone holders who will not accept a price below valuation and/or the price of their entry level. My gut feeling is that it is a Mexican standoff and BK got too personal on it and lost the plot.

Someone with deep pockets should just buy the balance off VIK and you will see the SP bounce 50%. STL and HG cant buy anymore shares or they will trigger a T/O.

Dr_Who
30-11-2007, 10:40 AM
:):):)

DPC
30/11/2007
HALFYR

REL: 0845 HRS Dorchester Pacific Limited

HALFYR: DPC: DPC ANNOUNCES SOLID HALF YEAR RESULTS

DORCHESTER PACIFIC LIMITED ANNOUNCES SOLID HALF YEAR RESULTS

- First half profit $3.09 million
- Board confirms $6 million full year profit guidance
- Interim dividend announced of 4.25 cents per share
- Healthy return from St Laurence investment
- Sale of 34 Shortland Street confirmed

Dorchester Pacific Limited (Dorchester) today posted its interim results for
the six month period to 30 September 2007, reporting a Net Profit After Tax
of $3.09 million.

A solid result from Dorchester Finance, healthy returns from the investment
in St Laurence and an unrealised gain from the sale of 34 Shortland Street
contributed to the interim profit result for Dorchester, which was reported
for the first time under NZ IFRS (New Zealand International Financial
Reporting Standards).

Chairman of Dorchester, Mr Barry Graham, said: "It is a satisfactory result
in a challenging operating environment. We are on track for a full year
profit of $6 million and are pleased to announce an interim dividend of 4.25
cents per share (last year 4.75 cents) fully imputed and payable on 21
December 2007."

Chief Executive Officer, Andrew Walker, commented: "Early in the financial
year we identified a need to refocus on areas where we can deliver value. At
our Annual Meeting in August we announced a rationalisation programme to
divest non-core operations and assets.

"We have entered an unconditional agreement to sell our holding in 34
Shortland Street to Valad Funds Management for $30.7 million. We are
expecting a cash distribution of approximately $15 million to Dorchester
Finance in due course. These proceeds will be utilised in the normal course
of business and to take advantage of a number of opportunities available in
the current market."

Senate Finance's transition from a financier to a brokerage business is now
complete. Dorchester's branch network has been rationalised and a process to
divest Equity Investment Advisers & Sharebrokers Ltd has commenced.

Dorchester Finance's operating contribution of $2.00 million was a solid
result given Senate's $1.66 million operating loss. The ongoing effect of
poor loans in the Senate ledger was partly offset by a 38% increase in
operating contribution from the branch network and property and equipment
lending operations.

The slowdown in second hand vehicle financing resulted in a downturn in the
sale of consumer insurance products. This impacted DorchesterLife's
operating contribution of $483,000, which was down on the prior year. Mr
Walker commented: "Savings and reverse mortgage products are tracking to
expectations but are unlikely to replace lost consumer insurance revenue in
the short term.

"St Laurence had a good half year result, contributing $2.38 million in
equity earnings. We are very pleased with this investment and are continuing
to explore joint opportunities."

Dorchester has today also announced $20 million of new funding from related
companies of two of its largest shareholders. This is the first in a series
of initiatives to recapitalise the company, including a planned rights issue
in 2008.

Castle Finance Limited, a related company of substantial shareholder Hugh
Green Investments Limited, and Auguste Holdings Limited, a related company of
substantial shareholder Auguste Finance Limited, have each agreed to advance
$10 million to Dorchester Pacific.

Mr Walker said: "The facility will enhance the company's ability to take
advantage of lending and portfolio expansion opportunities and it will also
bolster cash reserves. We welcome this support from our cornerstone
shareholders and are pleased with their demonstration of confidence in the
business."

6 Months to 30 Sept (000s) 2007 2006
Revenue $39,499 $41,385
Net Profit After Tax $3,090 $3,007
Total Assets $424,877 $458,732
Total Equity $64,362 $54,495
Dividend (cps) 4.25 4.75

The changes noted in the 31 March 2007 annual report regarding the transition
to NZ IFRS have resulted in a decrease in shareholders' equity of $5.43
million and a reclassification of minority interests of $1.38 million. A
reconciliation of the major movements for the 31 March NZ GAAP to NZ IFRS
balance sheet is attached to Dorchester's financial statements. A
comprehensive reconciliation will be included in the Half Year Report to 30
September 2007.

ENDS

Nitaa
30-11-2007, 12:53 PM
It wil be interesting to see BK's responce to the above.

Is their any accountant out their who can shed some light with reagards to bad debts or writeoffs. The reason I am asking is that DPC continue to show stready and consistant result results over the last few years. With the collapse of all the finance companies of late, how difficult or easy is it to consider a likely bad debt or such as still a account receivable? Heres the scenario. I could look at my own business and I will have an x amount of money still owed to my by my clients which say i believe are bad debts. Could I not for accounting purposes still make them an account receivable? Especially if i want to artifically give my company performing better than it really is.

If the above is true then with all these sub prime issues and finance companies falling over it would make it almost impossible to make an informed decision whether a finance company was a good investment or not.

Any thoughts?

dsurf
30-11-2007, 01:59 PM
I have some thoughts on this one

1/ Barely profitable - The npat of 3m included 2.3?m of "equity accounted earnings" - this means the rest of DPC made 700k

2/ Burning cash - otherwise why sell assets? Maybe they are not getting the retail funding in the door?

3/ Selling assets - sold Direct broking at almost exactly the wrong time - kiwisaver etc had already been signalled by the labour government -

Now they are sellling Equity at a time when retail investors do not want to invest in the main product offfering - finance debentures - so they will not get much - so sounds like they are stopping cash burn

And for the icing on the cake.... drum rolll ..... sell property when their is a credit crunch

Brilliant minds run this company!!!!!!!!

hope it goes under.

Nitaa
30-11-2007, 03:54 PM
dsurf. I have to agree with your post. since i longer hold this stock i havent looked into their finaces with great dept. Your analysis seems very good. There will come a very good opportinty fo rthis stoc sooner or later. The only problem is the average investor will not not get a chance because the horse would have already bolted.

Chances of it going under? I guess there is that chance especially under the current econmoic climate it is facing.

Most probably know how i feel about this comapny but i do need to tread with caution on what i say.

discl. all my posts are speculation only.

dsurf
30-11-2007, 04:13 PM
Sorry Nita I forgot to add that I am not sure that the 700K that DPC operations made does not include "an unrealised property gain" . Of course if it did & the gain was more than 700K then DPC operations are currently loss making.

Also which other company sends out a letter to investors & puts in on thier website that TALKS OF A OVERHANG THAT IS DEPRESSING THE SHAREPRICE - Nutters - daily volume in DPC is Tiny & VIK own a huge amount because the whole world know that VIK founder is also the founder of DPC & dumped his DPC shares that Rod Petrovich of Bridgecorp and equitycorp fame could not buy because of a minor irritation called the takeovers code

Nitaa
30-11-2007, 04:59 PM
Definately going to be interesting. Watch this space

p2r
01-12-2007, 11:56 AM
I am more interested in wherethe stock is going than where it has been / is.

Certainly have left the car loans and gone more for the property side.

Nita & D surf do you have any specific concerns or do you feel property is all bad.

Hoop
02-12-2007, 10:41 AM
P2R Quote....I am more interested in wherethe stock is going than where it has been / is.

Yes I am in the same opinion.

DPC is a totally different animal now than what is was a couple of years ago. I really don't think any commentators can base their arguments about where this company is going using long term hindsight and past performances as a reference anymore.
In saying this though DPC, now that having sold its income stream property asset is more vunerable to the credit squeeze than before....but this area has been plugged with the new loan facilities for the short/medium term, and later a share option program.

The mist is clearing surrounding this company now...Hugh green is now seen to be involved within the DPC Camp and this takes away another uncertainity as to what was going to happen with that block of 20% DPC.
BK is on the outside which the market has already deduced but has publically announced lately that the company now has "opportunities"...so any number of conclusions can be drawn from this statement.

The downside however is the increasingly complexity of the DPC structure. STL is well known for its complex arrangements within its satelite companies and this influence is very evident here..... The upside is that I deduce this complex activity as a sign that STL will now not back away from the DPC -STL merger agreement that had a back door contingency exit measure by STL if things went sour.

Other positive signs are, the perceived harmony by the increasingly many players within this complex intertwined structure, the ability to pay a dividend (great Yield rate), good management, easy no cost ability to acess imformation such as experienced advice / activity.

Negatives, increase complexity makes it difficult for investor to know what the hell is going on. Less transperancy. Virtually no control by shareholders. Small shareholders not receiving any benefits from the restructure and a perception they are being screwed through asset transfer to STL group complex. The NZ Finance Company sector being in the midsts of a bear market cycle. The dark clouds on the property market horizion. Investor flight to A class banks. Bad press. Continuing crashing of the weak finance companies,with forecast of more to come.

So...weighing up the positives and weaknesses.....I have re-entered by buying a small parcel of DPC shares ....just to keep my focus on this company. My Strategy here has no time frame, so it could be a short term flick. Good Dividend coming (21 Dec) though.

POSSUM THE CAT
03-12-2007, 08:42 AM
Long Term holder topping up

Dr_Who
03-12-2007, 01:26 PM
You are brave Possum. :eek: I have some DPC but too scare to add more.

dsurf
07-12-2007, 03:00 PM
I am more interested in wherethe stock is going than where it has been / is.

Certainly have left the car loans and gone more for the property side.

Nita & D surf do you have any specific concerns or do you feel property is all bad.

My concerns are well laid out in previous posts but to summarise:

-0 yes zero operating profits - losses unknown
-dividend funded via cash generation from asset sales
-worst sector possible sentiment wise - blue chip going under?
-business model relies on retail funds - Why do they need bailing out by HG & St L - no cash generation from operating business - very bad sign - rights issue?
-internal management / boardroom fighting
-huge share overhang publicly stated by founder with vendetta
-generates own bad media by ongoing war with BKburger
-naiive young overly academic CEO - comments on past bad strategy of board without thinking of ramifications - ie business model is weaker than previously
-website & "operational update" allude to share overhang - bizarre at best

and to add my latest....
- phoned head office last week to plead with the co'y secretary tristram Van der meijden (hopefully he reads this thread) to stop the war with VIK at 12:20pm - was told that he was out til midday - I said - it is 20 past will he be long - was told he was always late
- So phoned today twice - phone rang 20 times - no answer -


At best an unhappy company - at worst - will be in recievership within a year??

Best result would be break up & asset sales - thats right they are selling all their assets - hope the grunters in the trough get smoked so the shareholders at least get a bacon butty

Dr_Who
07-12-2007, 03:52 PM
Hey Dsurf, are you a DPC shareholder?

I must admit, I got this one wrong. Should have seen the writing on the wall when Bridgecorp was in trouble. Thank God I only hold a small amount.

Anyone has a valuation on their assets?

p2r
07-12-2007, 10:06 PM
Why do they need bailing out by HG & St L - no cash generation from operating business - very bad sign - rights issue?

I think the money is for buying up some of the finance company assets around at the moment.

They certainly need to get bigger & diversify. Hard to see where they are going. They don't seem to be into Kiwisaver but there must be a long term plan.

Selling their best asset - direct broking was a mistake.

Hoop
09-12-2007, 01:05 PM
Hey Dsurf, are you a DPC shareholder?

I must admit, I got this one wrong. Should have seen the writing on the wall when Bridgecorp was in trouble. Thank God I only hold a small amount.

Anyone has a valuation on their assets?


Yeah, I have..well... sort of.
Having referred to the FYR report March 07 booklet many times lately I have put in a place where I can access it easily for reference..I have now misplaced it!!!........but from memory the NTA then was somewhere around the $1.87 to 1.92 mark..since then with the new accounting rules (from NZ GAAP to NZ IFRS) the NTA was revised downwards by $5.4M (15cents/s) to $1.72 or there abouts.
Lately DB has a DPC NTA/s of $1.67 on their website.

With the latest announcement 29 Nov 07.The report says that the Total Equity $64.362M up from $54.495M last year.

Note the new wording TE not NTA
Last year there were less shares on issue... so..

As of 29 Nov $64.362M TE / 36.299M shares on issue = $1.77/share

I have no idea how close this is to being accurate as I don't know what TE is comprised of .
I need a lot of time (which I haven't got) to sort out the facts from this complex maze of figures (as to date I can't find the latest detailed version). Why do they make it so complicated is beyond me.

If my figures are accurate, it shows that there has been no asset burning so far.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Dr_Who
09-12-2007, 04:52 PM
If the NTA is only $1.77, so why did Bridgecorp, STL, VIK and HG pay well over $2.00 for it?

Toddy
09-12-2007, 05:45 PM
If the NTA is only $1.77, so why did Bridgecorp, STL, VIK and HG pay well over $2.00 for it?

Dr, Who knows what kind of back hander deals went on during those P party's on the million dollar boats and in the million dollar houses in Auckland.

Its best just not to ask the question and stay away from the 'shady' companies. And I managed to say all of that without mentioning that Marc character also.

Party at Ridges house tonight to celebrate Brent Todd avoiding the lock up.

winner69
09-12-2007, 06:57 PM
Party at Ridges house tonight to celebrate Brent Todd avoiding the lock up.

but Brent will be down at Cowboy doing his bouncing job .......... he's allowed to do that as clean mats cars during the day ..... suppose that Mat has to go down to bring him home or is brent allowed to drive home

dsurf
10-12-2007, 08:48 AM
Hey Dsurf, are you a DPC shareholder?

I must admit, I got this one wrong. Should have seen the writing on the wall when Bridgecorp was in trouble. Thank God I only hold a small amount.

Anyone has a valuation on their assets?

I have been a couple of times in the past " lost the faith " after the 2006 AGM when the new CEO outlined a new strategy of rebalancing the loan portfolio away from motor vehicles - it turned out after questioning from a shareholder that all they had done was not re-invest the money.

then there was the Rod Petrovich vs the board spat - very unprofessional - was obvious that there was no alignment of shareholder & management / board interests. Also obvious it was a "jobs for boys club with little controls"

Then there was the clincher - the backward D new logo

Do not hold currently - will not until the management are replaced!

Hoop
10-12-2007, 09:48 AM
If the NTA is only $1.77, so why did Bridgecorp, STL, VIK and HG pay well over $2.00 for it?

???
??? hmmmm...OK.. Answer ..probably for the same reason that investors want to buy FBU shares for 1161 cents when the NTA/s is 334cents

dsurf
12-02-2008, 03:09 PM
This time last year VIK paid over $2.00 for DPC and now they are selling DPC at 84 cents... ROFL! What a laugh! So who still owns VIK shares?

disc: DPC shareholder

I wonder what St Lawrence paid. Funny how they are having a rights issue - must be short of cash. If the rights are not taken up maybe they will join VIK & be a seller also!!!

Nitaa
12-02-2008, 04:52 PM
This time last year VIK paid over $2.00 for DPC and now they are selling DPC at 84 cents... ROFL! What a laugh! So who still owns VIK shares?

disc: DPC shareholder
and maybe B King will come in and buy DPC with his own money at 60cps rather than the calamity of errors with Viking

Dr_Who
14-02-2008, 02:55 PM
Hey guys, DPC at these levels you are getting over 10&#37; div! In the half yr announcement the board confirms Full yr profit of $6 m, so div should be around 8-9 cps.

Also interesting to see one of the directors slowly accummulation more shares on the market. :)

disc: Shareholder

Deev8
14-02-2008, 04:13 PM
Hey guys, DPC at these levels you are getting over 10% div! In the half yr announcement the board confirms Full yr profit of $6 m, so div should be around 8-9 cps.A net profit after tax of $6 million would be earnings of 16.5c per share, so a 9c dividend would be a relatively modest payout ratio of 55%. So it's possible that they could pitch the dividend even higher than that.

Assuming a 9c dividend, they would be yielding 10.8% net, or over 15% gross at their current price of 83c.

Deev8
14-02-2008, 04:30 PM
Hey guys, DPC at these levels you are getting over 10% div! In the half yr announcement the board confirms Full yr profit of $6 m, so div should be around 8-9 cps.


A net profit after tax of $6 million would be earnings of 16.5c per share, so a 9c dividend would be a relatively modest payout ratio of 55%. So it's possible that they could pitch the dividend even higher than that.

Assuming a 9c dividend, they would be yielding 10.8% net, or over 15% gross at their current price of 83c.Something similar applies to Dominion Finance. They have said that they expect their profit for this year to be 10% - 15% ahead of last year. Taking the more conservative figure I make that earnings of around 28.5c per share. The consensus forecast for their dividend is around 13.8c - again a modest payout ratio slightly below 50%.

A 13.8c dividend would put them on a net yield of 10.9% (again over 15% gross yield) at their current price of $1.26.

It hardly needs saying - both companies are currently priced with a built-in fear that something nasty is going to happen ... but just how nasty will it really be?

Dr_Who
14-02-2008, 04:37 PM
As I have said previous posts, the consolidation in the finance industry will benefit those that are still around. There will always be a need for finance companies to fill in the role banks cannot fill.

DPC has a NTA of around $2.00 and the backing of the large shareholders. I also like their business model. There maybe some short term weakness, but the long term future looks bright.

shasta
14-02-2008, 05:24 PM
As I have said previous posts, the consolidation in the finance industry will benefit those that are still around. There will always be a need for finance companies to fill in the role banks cannot fill.

DPC has a NTA of around $2.00 and the backing of the large shareholders. I also like their business model. There maybe some short term weakness, but the long term future looks bright.

DPC still has the highly complex, yet profitable insurance business unit.

Am wondering if they will sell that, or look to expand it as part of the turn around process.

I've always liked the DPC model (Brent King is hellbent on it!) & see DPC as one of the few small finance companies to make it through the otherside & prosper again.

If/When this happens is the main question!

dsurf
15-02-2008, 08:57 AM
Shasta, I wish I have a crystal ball, but I dont. DPC goes into my long term portfolio, so my decision to buy is based on the company's profit guidance and the current sp. At 84 cents and a full yr profit of 6 million possible 9cps div gives us 10.7% div.

I am assuming they are selling their non core business assets and concentrating on core businesses that can add value. Also in this environment there are ample opportunities for firms with abit of cash to buy cheap under valued assets.

VIK selling down the stock is a good opportunity for long term investor like myself to pick up some more cheap shares. It also gives me great confidence that Hugh Green has pumped $20 million of his own money into DPC and a director buying more shares on the market.

Good doctor come back to earth please -

The company's profit guidance - do you know how much of this was ongoing operating profits versus one-off gains on asset sales or asset revaluations etc? It will be a large % and probably most will come from selling the building - wonder what the NTA is now?

They have required a cash injection from major shareholders to stay afloat - Would they need this if they were generating CASH (not accounting profits?)

The dividend is high but most goes back to the shareholders who lent DPC the money (get it money go round designed to support the share price)

why assume they are selling non-core businesses - very irrational - What are thier core businesses? They seem to change every year? What business lines can they "create value" in " - please tell me as then I would be far more knowledgeable than the rest of the market

When did you read "that in this environment you can buy cheap assets" - You quoted an NTA of $2.00 when the share price was well over $1. I was flabbergasted that no other larger finance company did not grab such a bargain!

VIK is killing the share price - have you checked how many they have left to sell? On the 14th Dec 07 they had a trifling 1,797,059. When that stake clears this stock will get re-rated.

Hugh Green has LENT $20 million to keep a very large investment afloat

Have I mentioned this is the worst performing sector with the worst outlook due to a global credit crunch, indebted consumers, aversion to finance company debentures

The worm will turn when the thunderstorm has gone away - I am huddling in the shelter for now!

lakeys
15-02-2008, 11:26 AM
well said dsurf.

its all about the quality of the future earnings

p2r
15-02-2008, 09:25 PM
I wonder what St Lawrence paid. Funny how they are having a rights issue - must be short of cash. If the rights are not taken up maybe they will join VIK & be a seller also!!!

Rights issue is SLPF. St Lawrence owning about 1/3 will be putting in 10 million or so and with NTA $1.50 for 75 c they probably don't mind more. SLPF appears to have some good investments generating cash but they want more to invest without lending off the bank. They have a few debenture holders to repay & no sign of new debentures so by the end of a year will be a listed company on NZX, in fact looks like will be in the next month so they won't be on unlisted I guess. Will 100 million put them in the top 50?

Strategics recent good result show what a good finance company can do!

POSSUM THE CAT
16-02-2008, 08:33 AM
P2R How much of the profit is capialized interest? Why are they still chasing previous investors 12 months after they withdrew all their funds? And why such a big expensive advertising campaign at the moment?

p2r
16-02-2008, 01:36 PM
P2R How much of the profit is capialized interest? Why are they still chasing previous investors 12 months after they withdrew all their funds? And why such a big expensive advertising campaign at the moment?

I'm not sureabout cap interest.

I presume you are talking about St Laurence ads. They are promoting debentures and are only noticable because they did so little before. Thats what finance companies do. They seem to rely on 300 odd brokers mainly. Surely the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

SLPF has not done any promotion.

Nitaa
16-02-2008, 03:30 PM
Dsurf, you are missing the point of what I am saying. When it comes to business young lad you have alot to learn. I dont want to go into a debate with you on the DPC issue. The full yr result details will clearify everything. Hugh Green is a good investor and he wont put $20 million into a sinking ship.

I have put my money where my mouth is and bought more shares.I am not sure if i agree with you entirely. Yes Green is Smart. What finance companies dont disclose until its too late its bad debts. Thats why many have fallen over without much notice.

The co has a market cap of just under $30m and Green pumped in $10m plus the other co? seems awfully like they have a cashflow issue rather than using it as expansion. S lets see what they have expanded lter this year.

Come June or before lets see if HG extends their loan, pull out their money or just let the full term (6 months expire). If they pull out within the next 3 months then DPC are on skid row. If they extend beyond June then DPC are still in a bad way with their Cash Flow. If they let it simply run the ull 6 months then that would be the best sign for shareholders.

Why has HG and the other co invest $20m? Well HG has a 20&#37; stake in DPC but if he feels that his loan is in jepordy the he will pull the plug and make sure he gets back his $10m and accept a hit with the other shareholders. He may end up buying it out himself.

Watch this space..

POSSUM THE CAT
17-02-2008, 10:31 AM
P2R Iam talking about your favourite finance compay Strategic Finance With their adds & correspondence and I was asking you how much capitalized interest was in that large profit you were talking about. Did you also see the piece in the papers about the hole in the ground they are financing.

Steve
17-02-2008, 03:24 PM
I am not sure if i agree with you entirely. Yes Green is Smart. What finance companies dont disclose until its too late its bad debts. Thats why many have fallen over without much notice.

The co has a market cap of just under $30m and Green pumped in $10m plus the other co? seems awfully like they have a cashflow issue rather than using it as expansion. S lets see what they have expanded lter this year.

Come June or before lets see if HG extends their loan, pull out their money or just let the full term (6 months expire). If they pull out within the next 3 months then DPC are on skid row. If they extend beyond June then DPC are still in a bad way with their Cash Flow. If they let it simply run the ull 6 months then that would be the best sign for shareholders.

Why has HG and the other co invest $20m? Well HG has a 20% stake in DPC but if he feels that his loan is in jepordy the he will pull the plug and make sure he gets back his $10m and accept a hit with the other shareholders. He may end up buying it out himself.

Watch this space..

I agree with you here, Nita.

Have been watching DPC for the last 6 months or so. Was tempted to purchase just prior to the last dividend on the basis of HG's support for DPC by way of the loan.

Still watching and waiting...

KJ
21-02-2008, 09:26 AM
Director Paul Byrnes-has been buying over last couple of months,

Billy Boy
21-02-2008, 09:29 AM
Who paid up and bought 40k at 84 cents today? :rolleyes:
A director ;)
Picked up a wee few more for myself too today @ 83c:)
Not many, Just a few.:)
BB

Billy Boy
21-02-2008, 11:00 AM
Yep Doc
I think VIK are doing a bit self A/Kicking. They bad mouthed DPC which i thought at the time was a very very silly thing to do. Maybe it was a personality thing. Some one bought 20K at 84c right after me. was that u.
BB

Nitaa
21-02-2008, 11:00 AM
Welcome to the band camp BB :). I ve been picking up a few DPC on weakness also. I like DPC as a recovery story and will go into the long term portfolio. At these levels you are getting over 10% yield. All the doomstayers are a good source of supply of stocks for us long term investors to buy into. :)Defintately has the potential as one of the "turn-a-round stories. It always had more stability than most other finance co's.

Big risk and big rewards are on offer no question. What i would want to know from dpc is how much private funds have been taken out of dpc since the subprime issue surfaced? The value of loan defaulters? what is REALLY their bad debt status (write offs) and not just what is written in the books.

Remember, they said that $20m was for expansion. Well, we have about 3 months maximum to find out. The signs are there for all to see of the REAL POSITION of DPC.

Is this going to be a turn-a-round story? Quite possibly... time will tell. just not my time to dip my toes in

Billy Boy
21-02-2008, 11:08 AM
Nita
Let us know the answers coz they are good questions.
BB

Billy Boy
21-02-2008, 11:10 AM
BB, I have noticed that whenever there are stock offered at these prices, someone would pay up and buy it. :D
...........:D.........
and I'll beat you too the next lot..... if I can :D
BB

dsurf
03-03-2008, 04:06 PM
Dsurf, you are missing the point of what I am saying. When it comes to business young lad you have alot to learn. I dont want to go into a debate with you on the DPC issue. The full yr result details will clearify everything. Hugh Green is a good investor and he wont put $20 million into a sinking ship.

I have put my money where my mouth is and bought more shares.

I see good doctor that occasionally the young lad can get one over grandad. Your 6 mill "profit" forecast is now 3 to 4 million!! due to less loan fees from less loans & bad debts - didn't take long to be downgraded -

Also is that Hugh I see getting his "loan" back in the announcement below? Sort of the opposite to insiders buying more?

Qn: why did he loan in the first place.

An: because DPC is draining cash - reduced fee income - quality assets like direct broking sold (they could have cleaned up under kiwisaver) - bad debts increasing - fixed costs remain.

DPC
29/02/2008
FORECAST

REL: 1700 HRS Dorchester Pacific Limited

FORECAST: DPC: Revised Profit Guidance

Dorchester Pacific Limited has today revised its profit guidance for the 2008
financial year to between $3 million and $4 million net profit after tax
(previously $6 million). This is a result of reduced lending volumes, a
consequent reduction in loan fee income and increased provisioning in
Dorchester Finance.

Dorchester Finance currently holds $33 million in cash or cash equivalents,
representing a healthy 12% of Dorchester Finance's total assets. This
position is after repaying a $20 million loan to related parties of our two
major shareholders.

dsurf
03-03-2008, 04:21 PM
Also since they made 3.1m profit (including gain on sale of the property) in the first half - this means they expect between 0 & 900K profit in the second half. Not going to be a big divie on 900K! & if it is then they are borrowing to fund it which would be even worse.

Nitaa
03-03-2008, 04:27 PM
I am a little bit surprised. To me it doesnt make sense for HG to get is loan money back unless he has serious concerns about the cash flow of DPC. I read the intial announcement that the load was for a specified term but gave HG the right to withdraw at any time. If DPC do not have a cash flow problem then the only other possible conclusion is they need the money for another investment.

Still warning bells if you ask me