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Steve
11-01-2007, 07:12 PM
A bit of a jump in the share price today - up 14% - on reasonable volume too.

My guess is that the recoveries on the National Finance debt ledger are going better than expected. This could more than offset the expected slowdown in Merlin Foods.

Any other thoughts out there?

Disc: Holder of CYT

Ricardo
11-01-2007, 08:21 PM
I'd go along with that.
I'm also a holder, from the Rocom days. Must confess at times it was a reluctant one, as the liquidity was so poor it wasn't possible to bail out and buy back in when it hit support.

Recent actions give me confidence its on the right track. Hawkins seems to be taking a most conservative approach. I did wonder today what percentage jump in price and volume is needed before the exchange asks if there is anything we should know.
It would be reassuring to see an announcement that things were indeed going "better than expected".

swissboy
11-01-2007, 08:46 PM
for some time now it has been ranging from 8 to 16 cents and then since new year from 15c worked its way up to now 20c which is in fact a lift of 33 %. Your explanation that the collecables must be better than anticipated is likely true. For some continuety go back 16 pages under the previous name of ROC

Steve
11-01-2007, 08:51 PM
I thought those ROC threads were a bit dated and it effectively a different company now especially given the size of the ledger purchased.

Anyway, I thought it was more appropriate to make it a CYT thread!

Ricardo
15-01-2007, 04:14 PM
SSH Notice
Can someone enlighten me as to what todays SSH notice actually means. As a TA rather than a Fundamentals person I've never taken much notice of significant shareholders, directors interests etc.
I figure if it was important it will show in the price and volume.

However Cynotech has turned into a buy and hold stock for me, and my ignorance here is hurting.
Has Guardian Trust just sold shares it held on its own account, or that they were just holding some for someone else.

Given the price has been going up buyers must be keener than sellers, but if it was an insider selling I'd like to know that.

Any ideas?

Ricardo
16-01-2007, 10:19 AM
Some of my questions answered with release of latest SSH notice.
Briggs increased holdings from 5.86 to 16.3% via on and off market purchases.

Steve
16-01-2007, 11:31 AM
That should be a good sign, although I believe that he was in the newspaper last year commenting on his loss on his substantial FTX holding

Steve
18-03-2008, 09:28 PM
Does todays announcement mean that the rights issue is off? :confused:

Cynotech Holdings Limited has previously announced that it was promoting the listing of Findata Limited on the NZAX.

Time delays in obtaining the necessary approvals and the dollar cost of
obtaining those approvals have become too onerous for the Directors of
Cynotech to rationalise the investment of further resources in this project.

Findata can continue down its chosen path of growth with the resources it
already has in hand and it has been decided that the additional benefits
which could be obtained from the NZAX listing do not equate with the time and dollar costs still necessary to achieve that end and the associated rights
entitlement to the Cynotech shareholders.

The forward structure and development of Findata will be resolved with input
from the Directors of Broker Technology Trust Ltd. Cynotech will continue
with a 20% shareholding at this stage.

kiwi_on_OE
21-03-2008, 10:14 PM
Perhaps Findata can use the money saved from the cancelled listing to fix the bugs in their product. 1) Graphs of NZ companies auto-refresh back to 'Today' after a short period of time, if even I have selected a different timeframe. 2) The portfolio tool doesn't cope with UK listed stocks priced in USD, a) because it doesn't seem have up to date prices and b) it doesn't realise that the stocks are quoted in US dollars rather than GB pence.

Steve
19-04-2008, 08:25 PM
CYT has again been purchasing the debt ledgers of failed finance companies. If they recover as well as the first ledger, then it must make the shareprice look cheap?

Steve
25-07-2009, 07:40 PM
Why are people paying $1 to have CYTHA allotted when they could have purchased them for 65-75c on the secondary market recently?

mccollr
05-08-2009, 02:22 PM
Wednesday, 5 August 2009 - 12:04pm http://www.guide2.co.nz/files/imagecache/article_large/files/Cynotech%20Holdings_2.jpg (http://www.guide2.co.nz/files/Cynotech+Holdings_2.jpg)

Wellington, Aug 5 NZPA - Cynotech Holdings reported a 3 percent lift in half year net profit to $1.26 million, with chairman Allan Hawkins saying the company continued to approach the finance part of its business with caution.
Unlike some others in the industry, Cynotech's bad debts had been minimal in the half year, he said today.
That was brought about by a policy of having fully provided for possible impaired accounts in previous accounting periods.
But it was apparent massive difficulties still had to be overcome in the finance sector, Mr Hawkins warned.
In some cases where companies had yet to provide aggressively for the impaired loans in their property development and property speculation loan books it could be expected their results would be compromised.
"We simply believe that the arithmetic does not work out in some cases and this will lead to the non fulfilment of conditions in some finance companies which are under a debenture holder's moratorium," he said.
The company today said revenue for the six months to the end of June rose 2 percent to $7.75m, with an interim dividend of 0.5 cents per share to be paid.
Total shareholder funds of $14.17m in June were up from $13.06m in December, leading to a satisfactory increase in the equity percentage of the group, which now stood at 45 percent, Mr Hawkins said.
It was intended to continue that high level of equity funding of the asset base of the group and the low level of gearing for the foreseeable future while the finance industry continued to go through its difficult times.
Along with its finance activities, Cynotech has interests in temporary seating, satellite phones, and ice cream cone manufacturing.
With the exception of the satellite phone business, the non-finance, trading activities had "not performed with credit" during the half year, Mr Hawkins said.
"We are ensuring that every operation is being continuously reviewed on a line by line basis to ensure that we lift our performance levels."
Cynotech shares last traded yesterday at 14c, having ranged between 18.3c and 10.4c in the past year.

SCOTTY
16-11-2009, 04:57 PM
Allan Hawkins is to make a takeover for Cynotech with the offer due 10th Dec.
What would be a reasonable price?

Disc. - Holder

percy
17-11-2009, 03:20 PM
i will start the ball rolling.
cyt 22cents.
cytha $1
cytpa 22 cents.
cytwa 3 cents.

i hold cyt,cytha and cytwa.

Doyle
04-12-2009, 08:35 AM
2.3 cents interim divedend announced from retained earnings. Sounds like they are clearing out the bank account before the hawks offer goes through. I almost thought I'd read the form incorrectly infact I still think I might have.:confused:

OldRider
04-12-2009, 09:32 AM
Doyle: I think you should read that announcement again.

Doyle
04-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Thanks I see its just payments on capital notes. The fact it was only costing $42,000 was a bit of a give away.

Doyle
09-12-2009, 05:34 PM
D-day tommorow, expecting an announcement regarding a take-over from the Hawk. Be interesting to see what happens I'm picking either bottom of the valuation range say 19 cents for cash. Or an offer of say 23 cents involving some cash and some debentures or notes. Interesting to see what happens anyway.

Discl: Have a small Holding in CYT due to speculation about this take-over.

percy
15-12-2009, 03:17 PM
doyle.
what's up?
on my calendar the 10th december 2009 has been and gone.
sp down cancelled bid? like the cancelled dividend.
was looking forward to having a few $ for xmas.

Steve
15-12-2009, 06:03 PM
All smoke & mirrors to soften up the shareprice?

Doyle
16-12-2009, 01:12 PM
all this waiting is really starting to annoy me, wish the Hawk would either hit us with the figure or say the deal is off.

biker
16-12-2009, 03:33 PM
all this waiting is really starting to annoy me, wish the Hawk would either hit us with the figure or say the deal is off.

Phoned the company. Waiting for the Hawk to tick all the takeovers code etc, boxes.

They are hopeful of paper work from him by the end of this week.

percy
16-12-2009, 04:01 PM
biker,
thanks for your post,
i thought it would have only been good manners to have advised of delay,and given a revised date.,as the note posted on stock exchange did mention the 10th dec.

biker
16-12-2009, 04:20 PM
biker,
thanks for your post,
i thought it would have only been good manners to have advised of delay,and given a revised date.,as the note posted on stock exchange did mention the 10th dec.

I agree. I pointed that out but the answer was they wont be issuing an update to the NZX.

Hoping the offer makes up for the arrogance!

Doyle
18-12-2009, 09:07 AM
I hopes theres some news Today all this waiting is relly starting to bore me. I may sell out at a loss simply due to the lack of excitement.

COLIN
18-12-2009, 11:42 AM
I hopes theres some news Today all this waiting is relly starting to bore me. I may sell out at a loss simply due to the lack of excitement.

I don't normally follow this thread as I have too many vivid memories of Alan Hawkins' escapades in a former life, and would take a lot of convincing to get involved now.

Just flicking through these couple of pages, the question naturally arises: Where is Hawkins getting the money from, to finance a takeover? Is it an assured source? (Maybe he is a mate of Hotchin and Watson, and they are lending him the $20m they saved on the Hanover deal!)

Maybe this is all covered in the relative announcements? In which case, tell me to go away.

Doyle
18-12-2009, 12:09 PM
I don't normally follow this thread as I have too many vivid memories of Alan Hawkins' escapades in a former life, and would take a lot of convincing to get involved now.

Just flicking through these couple of pages, the question naturally arises: Where is Hawkins getting the money from, to finance a takeover? Is it an assured source? (Maybe he is a mate of Hotchin and Watson, and they are lending him the $20m they saved on the Hanover deal!)

Maybe this is all covered in the relative announcements? In which case, tell me to go away.
I'm not old enough to remember the Hawks previous life but i do have suspicions about a Lepeords ability to change their spots.

Theres been no detail what-so ever, my guess is he indented to issue debentures from the finance arm as part of the purchase price, and we are probably not talking about a heap of money so thought he would have the rest squirelled away somewhere. Total guess on my part which is why I want to see some actual detail.

SCOTTY
18-12-2009, 04:14 PM
Offer is out but no good for me as local Jag dealer does not accept funny money.

Anna Naum
19-12-2009, 09:30 AM
Offer is out but no good for me as local Jag dealer does not accept funny money.

What a joke of an offer. I think all those years in prison must have hurt the Hawkes head!

Mind you difficult to believe that he would have started down this road without first seeking the opinion of the other major shareholder.

SCOTTY
19-12-2009, 09:48 AM
What a joke of an offer. I think all those years in prison must have hurt the Hawkes head!

Mind you difficult to believe that he would have started down this road without first seeking the opinion of the other major shareholder.

So who would finish up with the cash flow assets? Why would any shareholder (unless they were to be owners of the new company) sell an operating business earning approx 2cps for 13.5c of Monopoly money? Surely on a pe 10, there should be a cash($$$) offer of at least 20cps to warrent any consideration?

percy
19-12-2009, 02:08 PM
anna,
a couple of weeks ago the independant quoted phil briggs as saying he would look at any cash offer over 18 cents but would not be interested in any funny money offer.
briggs is very astute so i would agree with him.
scotty
i donot think i could even get the lada repaired with funny money.

Anna Naum
20-12-2009, 12:00 AM
anna,
a couple of weeks ago the independant quoted phil briggs as saying he would look at any cash offer over 18 cents but would not be interested in any funny money offer.
briggs is very astute so i would agree with him.
scotty
i donot think i could even get the lada repaired with funny money.

Thanks Percy, maybe Mr Briggs was telling a few fibs, as he was a seller according to his recent ss at less than 18c

percy
20-12-2009, 06:43 AM
anna
i am sure they were off market.
no mention of price.
i thought he may have SOLD? to a family member.
from memory since announcement only about 200,000 shares sold while brigg,s SALE? was over 2mil. date of SALE? was 11th nov.
no trades like that on market.
maybe 2mil @2c to aunty flo?

Anna Naum
20-12-2009, 08:37 AM
anna
i am sure they were off market.
no mention of price.
i thought he may have SOLD? to a family member.
from memory since announcement only about 200,000 shares sold while brigg,s SALE? was over 2mil. date of SALE? was 11th nov.
no trades like that on market.
maybe 2mil @2c to aunty flo?

I hear Aunt Flo is a mean drunk, watch out come Xmas day afternoon when the brandy balls start to disappear

percy
20-12-2009, 09:47 AM
anna,
i am sure you are right.
aotea sent me a message on this site.
i am getting syft article photocopied and sending it to him.
he gave me his email address and in reply to my email sent his address.
i hope to get the whole independant to bermuda with the hope he will post it on this site.

Steve
20-12-2009, 01:03 PM
Well, I have to say that there appears to be a lack of substance to this opportunistic offer. :(

Cancelling the dividend etc seems to be a way of softening people up, then offering them a fixed rate as a sweetner to cash in at a low value.

It will be interesting to see what the 'independent' valuation comes out at...

crisstoff
21-12-2009, 12:00 PM
Agree Steve, completely opportunistic. I cant see another bid, but you never know, it really depends on just how much does Hawkins control.

I would rather see the dividend reinstated and business as usual. Mine you I have been thinking that Hawkins is getting too old and they need some new blood.

Be interesting to see what if any publicity this gets over the next few weeks as the media have been quick to jump on Hawkins in the past..

Steve
21-12-2009, 08:46 PM
The shareprice down below 10 on very small volume.

I'm considering buying some more at this level...

Doyle
21-12-2009, 08:54 PM
The shareprice down below 10 on very small volume.

I'm considering buying some more at this level...

Could be a good move I sold out my small holding on the basis of the crap offer, but could be tempted back in on the basis that the offer doesn't go through and it returns to business as usual.

Steve
21-12-2009, 09:06 PM
Could be a good move I sold out my small holding on the basis of the crap offer, but could be tempted back in on the basis that the offer doesn't go through and it returns to business as usual.

That was the theory behind my thinking. Up until a few months ago, there was only good news on recoveries from the purchased debt ledgers, then silence in any updates followed by the cancelled dividend and now the low-ball takeover offer.

My guess it that recoveries are still going well in the background and Mr H no longer wishes to share in the spoils. I can't see him making a takeover offer if things have turned to custard.

foodee
22-12-2009, 08:49 AM
That was the theory behind my thinking. Up until a few months ago, there was only good news on recoveries from the purchased debt ledgers, then silence in any updates followed by the cancelled dividend and now the low-ball takeover offer.

My guess it that recoveries are still going well in the background and Mr H no longer wishes to share in the spoils. I can't see him making a takeover offer if things have turned to custard.

Steve
I think you are right.
Mr H offer seems to say 'lend me your money to buy your shares'.

Cheers and season greetings to all

crisstoff
22-12-2009, 10:50 AM
Dead on Steve, no offer if it had turned to custard.

This is a crap offer and Im not impressed with his actions in pulling the dividend either. Plenty of potential in Cynotech backed up by his actions, but in no way will I be taking up his offer.

I wonder what the cash position of CYT is at the moment?

Steve
22-12-2009, 05:26 PM
Balance Date changed from 31 December to 31 March to keep the good news under wraps for a further 3 months, by which time the plan would be to have the takeover all wrapped up... :(

percy
22-12-2009, 07:09 PM
John McIndoe's famous quote .
"YOU MUST BE JOKING"
seems to sum it up.

Steve
24-12-2009, 11:55 AM
And after all that, the takeover has been shelved as the paperwork was not up to scratch.

I wonder if Mickey Mouse could have done a worse job?! :rolleyes:

nztx
24-12-2009, 11:32 PM
And after all that, the takeover has been shelved as the paperwork was not up to scratch.

I wonder if Mickey Mouse could have done a worse job?! :rolleyes:


Haha yes, even after the extra days and still a "Do Not Pass Go, Return back to the starting blocks" again..


Perhaps Mickey Mouse might like to whisper in someone's ear that the punters might appreciate some real coin, instead of little papershuffle exercise, assuming there's some left in a cash tin somewhere ;-)


Merry Christmas everyone .. :-)


(Disclaimer: Holder since Rocom reorganised)

nztx
25-12-2009, 09:55 PM
I can't see him making a takeover offer if things have turned to custard.


Can anyone see the dividendless punters being interested in a non cash offer now ? ;)

nztx
04-01-2010, 10:29 AM
An interesting article from Stuff:

www.stuff.co.nz/business/3203329/Courts-hangover-follows-debt-binge


Topping the chart for judgements sought and awarded against debtors was once again Evolution Finance, the debt-collection arm of listed company Cynotech run by Allan Hawkins.




Hawkins was chairman of Equiticorp, the most notorious of the listed companies which collapsed in the 1987 sharemarket crash, and he served time in prison after being found guilty of fraud.

Evolution sought and received 571 judgements from the courts, though once the figures for sister companies Cynotech Securities, Cynotech Finance and Budget Loans are taken into account, Hawkins' firms were awarded 752.

Cynotech is currently collecting the remaining car loans of failed finance firm Provincial Finance, which it bought from receivers, and is shopping around for other books of consumer loans to buy and chase.

mccollr
04-01-2010, 06:33 PM
An interesting article from Stuff:

www.stuff.co.nz/business/3203329/Courts-hangover-follows-debt-binge (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3203329/Courts-hangover-follows-debt-binge)
This is good business. Buy a depressed loan book and really squeeze every drop out of it. Great stuff. Hope there are more about for the Hawke to get stuck into.

Doyle
19-01-2010, 08:23 AM
And so round two of the take-over commences and the offer is............. More or less the same.

nztx
19-01-2010, 02:37 PM
And so round two of the take-over commences and the offer is............. More or less the same.


Perhaps a new Mickey-Mouse might come along with a Cash Tin with some actual coin in it for the poor dividendless punters having been bounced on badly over the festive season ;-)

percy
19-01-2010, 05:39 PM
on thread fundamental bargain of the new year mention is made of 3 aussie stocks.
CLH<FSA<CCP. i have read all 3 annual reports and agree that each has a bright future.
i do feel however cyt in nz is a better buy or was until hawkins takeover .
cyt has been conservatively managed with a huge 45% equity ratio.
the sector has excellent long term prospects. buying distressed loans at a discount then follow through the collection process.as a previous post pointed out cyt has lead the way.
as stranger danger quote on other thread said "in my experience real profitable dividend paying businesses,tarnished by something,can turn out to be excellent investments.'
would appear hawkins decided against paying the ALLREADY DECLARED divedand to make his takeover more bankable.
seems those people who have had a high opinon of the hawk and have followed his leadership by buying cyt shares are now being rewarded by being screwed by the very person they backed.

SCOTTY
19-01-2010, 06:00 PM
on thread fundamental bargain of the new year mention is made of 3 aussie stocks.
CLH<FSA<CCP. i have read all 3 annual reports and agree that each has a bright future.
i do feel however cyt in nz is a better buy or was until hawkins takeover .
cyt has been conservatively managed with a huge 45% equity ratio.
the sector has excellent long term prospects. buying distressed loans at a discount then follow through the collection process.as a previous post pointed out cyt has lead the way.
as stranger danger quote on other thread said "in my experience real profitable dividend paying businesses,tarnished by something,can turn out to be excellent investments.'
would appear hawkins decided against paying the ALLREADY DECLARED divedand to make his takeover more bankable.
seems those people who have had a high opinon of the hawk and have followed his leadership by buying cyt shares are now being rewarded by being screwed by the very person they backed.

Well said Percy

Dr_Who
19-01-2010, 09:29 PM
I don't normally follow this thread as I have too many vivid memories of Alan Hawkins' escapades in a former life, and would take a lot of convincing to get involved now.

Just flicking through these couple of pages, the question naturally arises: Where is Hawkins getting the money from, to finance a takeover? Is it an assured source? (Maybe he is a mate of Hotchin and Watson, and they are lending him the $20m they saved on the Hanover deal!)

Maybe this is all covered in the relative announcements? In which case, tell me to go away.

I too remember 1987 very well, hence I never touch anything associated with these guys.

Steve
20-01-2010, 06:58 PM
would appear hawkins decided against paying the ALLREADY DECLARED divedand to make his takeover more bankable.
seems those people who have had a high opinon of the hawk and have followed his leadership by buying cyt shares are now being rewarded by being screwed by the very person they backed.

Absolutely! Although reading the newspapers, it appears that the various muppets have formed the conclusion that AH is doing the investors a favour by allowing them to realise their investment in the shares of CYT in such depressed times...

nztx
20-01-2010, 09:03 PM
Absolutely! Although reading the newspapers, it appears that the various muppets have formed the conclusion that AH is doing the investors a favour by allowing them to realise their investment in the shares of CYT in such depressed times...


Reading the Takeover Docs AH seems to really try hard to portray that more time with family is on the menu - perhaps a tired hawk - anyone see that ?


Do we read into things that there might be more underlying facts to the story ?


Has the Hawk really got tired and just wants to hang up his wings or are there some further nice tasty morsels lurking within which might get either flicked off or absorbed into some of the other associated structures away from the scenario of pestly shareholders all entitled to a bite of the cherry and needing to be reported back to ? ;-)


The Son is involved in another Finance Company.

Budget Loans might be a nice fit there.


Perhaps another solution might be for the bulk of the shareholders to find a new Hawk with higher energy levels to drive the ship for them & forget the piddly swap for 13.5c 8% bits on the never never while things get stripped and wound down away from prying eyes


Larger stakeholders must be fairly disappointed with recent developments unless of course they are part of another new deal waiting in the wings - most are known to CYT top brass - they did state ;-)


Of course a King Deal from the Master Dealmaker might be just what is needed to replentish the Retirement Fund before exiting life in the Spotlight ;-)

percy
20-01-2010, 09:25 PM
Arthur Lim and the muppets do themselves no credit with all mouth no brain comments.
Surely one of the better analysts will run their ruler over it.
The independant report should make for good reading ,and with see how it compares with last independant report that valued shares between 18 and 25 cents.
Shareholder wealth has deen destroyed by the takeover not enriched.
Hawkins should get out or get on with it.

percy
21-01-2010, 08:09 AM
nztx
I enjoy your well informed comments.
cyt is a very good small company,with good prospects that has come through finance company disasters with flying colours.I would have expected the market to have seen this in due course.
Since the takeover announcement the share price has fallen away as shareholders realise they are being offered untradeable monopoly money for their listed securities.
Legal thief would be the more correct discription.
I note there are some bright investors as major shareholders,so we will see some fun.

Dr_Who
21-01-2010, 10:10 AM
Are there any cash in this company?

percy
21-01-2010, 11:04 AM
Dr.Who
go to cyt mid yearresult announcement 5/8/2009
net cash flows used in operating activities $1,378,000
cash and cash equivalents at 30th june $608,000
total assets $31.72 mil
shareholders funds $14.168 mil
total operating revenue $7,748,000
total operating expenses $5,806,000

percy
21-01-2010, 11:20 AM
Dr.Who
I too remember 1987.The only commentator to call it was phil Briggs who in early 1987 told his A letter subsribers to sell all their shares.
He is the same Phil Briggs who is the largest cyt shareholder. funny that.

nztx
21-01-2010, 01:46 PM
anna,
a couple of weeks ago the independant quoted phil briggs as saying he would look at any cash offer over 18 cents but would not be interested in any funny money offer.
briggs is very astute so i would agree with him.
scotty
i donot think i could even get the lada repaired with funny money.


This must be the same Phil as in your posting of 19 Dec ;-)

The larger independent stakeholders must now be expected at some early stage to have a little pow wow around the large table on the island in light of Phil's comment looking like being right on indication of fairer money for the job ;-)

Perhaps Phil might know of a faster smarter & more energetic replacement Hawk who could make things fly higher without looking down at the ground ? ;-)

Dr_Who
21-01-2010, 02:02 PM
Very interesting that CYT is going the opposite direction to ALF.

I have an interest to see which one will get it right.

disc: not a sh of both stock

percy
21-01-2010, 02:03 PM
nztx
Yes
Yes
Yes.

percy
21-01-2010, 02:11 PM
Dr Who
Two insolvement companies join forces and the share price goes up.
cyt profitable company who has not lost shareholders funds or had to go to the market for more capital,and yet the share price goes down on advice of a takeover offer.
funny that

SCOTTY
21-01-2010, 05:06 PM
This Independent Advisers Report (Staples Rodway) dated 1st Dec 2008 makes very interesting reading. On pages 16 & 25 of this report, they put their valuation at between 18 -25c. Cynotech has certainly made positive progress since then which makes the current offer very sick indeed!!

www.cynotech.co.nz/081216_Appraisal_Staples_Rodway.pdf

percy
21-01-2010, 05:18 PM
This Independent Advisers Report (Staples Rodway) dated 1st Dec 2008 makes very interesting reading. On pages 16 & 25 of this report, they put their valuation at between 18 -25c. Cynotech has certainly made positive progress since then which makes the current offer very sick indeed!!

www.cynotech.co.nz/081216_Appraisal_Staples_Rodway.pdf

Scotty
you are wonderful posting this reference.I have been relying on memory and could not find it.Thank you.
Truth does come to light.
funny that

SCOTTY
23-01-2010, 02:00 PM
Scotty
you are wonderful posting this reference.I have been relying on memory and could not find it.Thank you.
Truth does come to light.
funny that

Hi Percy

This information was in the Cynotech web site: www.cynotech.co.nz. Go to the Shareholder Information section and click onto Investor Relations. There is a lot of vauable information in there!!

Cheers

percy
23-01-2010, 05:57 PM
Scotty
I have been going over the announcements made a couple of years ago.The tone now is a lot different to then.
Funny That.
He could not wait to talk to shareholders,had to have a meeting before Xmas as waiting to March was too long.
Now changed balance date,March now too early .
Funny That.
looked forward to discussing the company with shareholders.Now does not want shareholders.
Funny That.

percy
23-01-2010, 06:03 PM
This must be the same Phil as in your posting of 19 Dec ;-)

The larger independent stakeholders must now be expected at some early stage to have a little pow wow around the large table on the island in light of Phil's comment looking like being right on indication of fairer money for the job ;-)

Perhaps Phil might know of a faster smarter & more energetic replacement Hawk who could make things fly higher without looking down at the ground ? ;-)

Yes is the same Phil as 19 Dec posting.
Yes they have queit a bit of flesh in cyt.
Yes I hope so.I would have thought Hawkins would have some one in mind with his talk of retirement.

SCOTTY
27-01-2010, 10:55 AM
How to destroy shareholder wealth? - make a stupid T.O. offer without real cash. Last sale 6.7c !!

Dr_Who
27-01-2010, 11:27 AM
Comparing this to ALF, makes interesting reading. If you believe what CYT has to say then at least you will get a div of 8%. Thats assuming they can achieve a sale of book value and pay you the div.

I still dont know why anyone would want to buy ALF at 11 cents.

percy
27-01-2010, 12:26 PM
I now know what Emperor Hirohito meant with his quote after the allies dropped the second atom bomb.
"The war is not necessarily going our way"

percy
27-01-2010, 01:02 PM
Comparing this to ALF, makes interesting reading. If you believe what CYT has to say then at least you will get a div of 8%. Thats assuming they can achieve a sale of book value and pay you the div.

I still dont know why anyone would want to buy ALF at 11 cents.

8%of the pref face value of 13.5 cents is nearer 16% on last sale price.
8% yield on share price of 12.5cents if takeover fails and dividend restored.
That would most probably be inputed,and we would
still have a listed investment.

SCOTTY
28-01-2010, 09:48 AM
The figures that matter to me are:

$3,215,835 pre tax earnings as at 31st Dec 2008
122,885,996 ord shares on issue currently
= 2.6 cps earnings before tax

Profit for half year to 30th June 2009 slightly up on previous which suggests that full year to 31st Dec 2009 would be no less than 31st Dec 2008 as there has not been any profit down grade signalled to the market so far as I am aware (Why has the balance date been changed?).

2.6c per share profit on a share price of 6.7cps = 38.8% return at current price.

I AM NOT A HAPPY SHAREHOLDER

percy
28-01-2010, 06:04 PM
The Independent 28th january 2010 page 31 Chalkie is a must read.
Chalkie is right on the nail with his analysis and his comments.
"it now looks like he is trying to make money out of those backing him by trying to buy their shares at a cheap price and with conditions favourable to him"
I would like to thank Chalkie for putting the words together so well.
I would also thank The Independent for publishing Chalkie.
As an investor it is good to have a strong business newspaper.
Sharetrader is also a strong forum with wellinformed posts.
It is a pity nzx has not stepped in as this funny money takeover reflects badly on the nz market.

percy
03-02-2010, 03:27 PM
I would have thought in light of the Chalkie article, Hawkins would have had the manners to withdraw his less than satisfactory offer.Just making a bigger fool of himself.
NZX still has remained silent.

SCOTTY
08-02-2010, 01:53 PM
The "funny money" offer arrived in the mail today. I believe that the independent directors are now obliged to seek an independent valuation of the Company which must be made available to all classes of shareholders. They must also recommend for shareholders to either accept or decline the offer and whether or not the offer is fair and reasonable. This is when the fun should start.

nztx
10-02-2010, 09:25 PM
_


An interesting tidbit from the combined Prospectus & Offer Document
relative to Associate - Seating Systems Limited:


Page 72:


Investment & Advances in Associates:

Seating Systems Limited

Opening Balance 1 Jan 2009 (59) k

Share of Associate (Loss ? ) (296) k

Subtotal (355) k

Advance to Associate 2,888 k

Total Investment & Advance $2,533 k



As at 30 Jun 2009:

Seating Systems Ltd

Group Ownership 31%

Assets $483 k

Liabilities $638 k

Revenues $1,467 k

Expenses $ 2,834 k

Tax $ 410 k

Loss $(957) k


69% of Seating Systems Ltd is owned by Cynotech Securities which is a company associated with Allan Hawkins


That should go down well with all the dividend-less shareholders now being landed with takeover docs after the market price has been stomped on ;-)


All too convenient to change balance date when the Offer Close date is 19 March 2010, (not to say that 31 Dec 09 Unaudited Management Results wouldn't be at hand and avail to some somewhere), wasn't it ? ;-)


It would be a great pity if 50% or more decided that what was offered on the tray wasn't good enough .. ;-)

percy
11-02-2010, 11:20 AM
_


It would be a great pity if 50% or more decided that what was offered on the tray wasn't good enough .. ;-)
For whom?
I am looking forward to independant report.After Chalkie,s brilliant article all players now know they are being watched.

Dr_Who
11-02-2010, 11:22 AM
What is the alternative offer to AH's T/O offer?

percy
11-02-2010, 11:30 AM
What is the alternative offer to AH's T/O offer?

At this stage no other offer on the table.However I would think alternatives would be spelt out in the independant report.Until we have seen this we can only speculate.

percy
13-02-2010, 06:24 AM
The article in nz Herald 13/2/2010 business section by Brian Gaynor "Investors must be wary of takeover bid' is timely as it points out how unsatisfactory the funny money offer is.Would expect it would turn AH's cornies into weetbix!!!

Anna Naum
13-02-2010, 07:03 AM
The article in nz Herald 13/2/2010 business section by Brian Gaynor "Investors must be wary of takeover bid' is timely as it points out how unsatisfactory the funny money offer is.Would expect it would turn AH's cornies into weetbix!!!

www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10625872

Steve
13-02-2010, 12:09 PM
What I find a hoot from reading the documents is that it will be the dividends from CYT that will be used to to make payments to those who end up holding the 'funny money' - despite the fact that the most recent dividend announced was cancelled by CYT to retain resources!

If CYT thought it was imprudent to pay this dividend, what has changed in the last few months to suddenly make cash available after the takeover? We won't know as the balance date was changed to defer the release in any relevant information...

It looks like those who said that a Hawk couldn't change its spots may be correct - it's all about looking after #1!

Balance
13-02-2010, 12:27 PM
Sleep with the devil and you will wake up with the devil beside you.

Some people think otherwise - that they will wake up with an angel!

percy
13-02-2010, 01:21 PM
[

It looks like those who said that a Hawk couldn't change its spots may be correct - it's all about looking after #1![/QUOTE]

Steve.
I think most CYT shareholders held AH in high reguard ,
Yes this takeover proves us wrong.
AH has keep reputation in tact.!!!
Be interesting to see if other directors get their reputations tainted.
With Chalkie and Brain Gaynor watching them ,they risk having their reputatons permantly ruined.
Whatever happens I fail to see anything positive coming from the takeover offer.
NZX,s has still not stepped in.Nothing seems to have changed since 1987.
After all said and done there has been more said than done.!!!
Yes balance you are right when you sup with the Devil you do need a very long spoon.

percy
16-02-2010, 06:43 PM
The independant report has not seen the light of day.
As yet no advice from Directors.
NZX has not done anything to safeguard shareholders.It is after all their sharemarket 's
reputation that gets tainted.
Are Brain Gaynor and Chalkie the only safeguards we have?
I wonder if Directors will include Gaynors' and Chalkie.s articles with their advice?and if not,why not?

Would they then be failing in their duties??

Silverlight
17-02-2010, 01:30 PM
Investment Advisors Report

https://www.i-search.nzx.com/blobs/NZSE0000/2010/326538/NZSE0000-114293.pdf


"From a valuation perspective, given the recent share price,CHL Equity Securities holders may be attracted to the $0.135 headline offer for CSGL Preference Shares. However, CSGL is essentially a shell company at present so in the event that the Offer is successful, the only assets underpinning the value of the CSGL Preference Shares will be the CHL securities held by CSGL in CHL."


Weighing up all of the factors involved in the Offer we believe the potential negative features of the Offer outweigh thepositive features and Campbell MacPherson can see no compelling merit in CHL shareholders accepting the Offer.

peat
17-02-2010, 02:25 PM
thats not a bad analysis imo
but you could save yourself the time and just read Brian Gaynors Herald article..... because as they say in that report valuation is not the issue here. it is rights and transparency and that wouldnt be something I would want to forgo when involved with the Hawk. History shows us, that despite buying NZ Steel off the Govt the day before the 1987 crash he is a superb dealmaker. but hes dealing for himself here.... and Cynotech shareholders are the counterparty.


\\\tangent\\\\ theres a link up with Hawkins and John Key too coz the Hawk was the recipient of the illegal Elders forex deals that Key was grilled about early in his political life. this was known as the H-Fee

nztx
17-02-2010, 03:47 PM
_


Cynotech ho-hum on Hawkins takeover offer (http://www.sharechat.co.nz:80/article/c20e7dd7/cynotech-ho-hum-on-hawkins-takeover-offer.html)



Independent directors of Cynotech Holdings found ‘limited appeal’ in chairman Allan Hawkins’ proposal to take the diversified company private, even though its NZX listing hasn’t provided much benefit.

Hawkins is offering preference shares in a shell company, Cynotech Securities Group, in exchange for the shares, preference shares and warrants in Cynotech Holdings. The offer puts the issue price at 13.5 cents per preference share in the private company. Interests associated Hawkins’ family currently own about 22% of the listed company, whose shares last traded at 6 cents for a market value of $7.6 million.

Cynotech Holdings’ directors committee said they weren’t able to make a recommendation to shareholders because the proposal because it isn’t a firm cash offer and depends on “an individual’s willingness to accept risk in their investment.”

While it provides an alternative avenue “for a potentially enhanced return in the future,” taking the company private would mean a loss of an open market and NZX disclosure requirements, they said in their report. Shareholders would also cede voting rights by accepting the preference shares.

“In the directors committee view, the offer has limited appeal, and there is no compelling reason to accept the offer, aside perhaps from the opportunity of a potentially enhanced return in the future, under the terms of the offer,” they said.

Hawkins wasn’t on the directors committee. Of the three other directors of the company, managing director Brett Tawse and Kevin McDonald have said they will accept Hawkins’ offer.

The company also released the independent advisers report, prepared by Campbell MacPherson, which valued the shares of Cynotech Holdings at between 7.3 cents and 10.03 cents, and concluded that the preference shares of Cynotech Securities should have the same value since it was “a recently formed shell company with start-up capital of about $200,000,” only enough to meet the costs of the offer.

In a separate report, the company announced a 45% slump in net profit to $1.26 million for the six months ended Dec. 31. Hawkins said he “does not believe the worst has been seen in the property and credit sector and this will continue to impact on the finance industry.”

Businesswire.co.nz

nztx
17-02-2010, 03:55 PM
_



A fair proportion of the other 78% might be recommending a new set of tail feathers to reach a greater height to see where the other 8c a share has evaporated to in just 6 or 8 months ;-)


Where's the money Allan ? ;-)


Did a chunk just happen evaporate under the stack of 31% of nearby Seats somewhere ? ;-)


At this rate, many might be wishing for a take-out by ALF & nice little swap job to join the 1.9 billion mostly x Hanover bits circulating, which seem to have found a few thermals and located some sort of light down the end of their long icecream cones ;-)


_

percy
20-02-2010, 06:27 AM
Brian Gaynor has more to say in today's NZ Herald on CYT.

Silverlight
22-02-2010, 04:26 PM
22 February 2010

CYNOTECH ANNOUNCEMENT FOR 12 MONTHS ENDED 31 DECEMBER

Cynotech Holdings Limited has released Group results for the period to 31 December 2009. The Company changed its balance date from a December year to a 31 March balance date and this report is a second interim report.
The results to December are unaudited and the March, 15 month results will be audited.

In producing the December accounts the Directors have conducted a comprehensive review of all asset carrying values and some provisions for diminution in value have been necessary.

$000 $000
Group pretax (unaudited) profit for the period 1,822
Provisions for diminution in value
Investment in Snowdon Ltd 1,919
Investment in Findata Ltd 315
Properties held for resale 327
Total provisions 2,561
Net loss pre tax 739
Tax 474
Net loss after provisions and tax 1,213


The Cynotech Group equity percentage is robust and is still in excess of 40% of total assets.

Finance Group bad debt provisions were low at $530kfor the period reflecting the conservative provisioning policy undertaken in previous accounting periods. The Finance Group now has only four loans on its books with a value in excess of $100,000. We do not have any large credit exposures by property developers or other non performing market sectors (that have not already been provided for).

The investment in Snowdon has been written down this year because this subsidiary is still not returning a satisfactory result and during the year major operational changes have been made. We have invested to upgrade machinery and because of this and other manufacturing and operational efficiencies the number of machines producing product has been reduced from 11 to 6 and the remaining machines are now producing more product with less wastage than was previously able to be produced. We have not yet been able to attract any interest in the redundant surplus machinery which has been for sale and so a write down has been necessary.

It should be noted that some of the provisions for write downs against the investments in subsidiaries and associates are not treated as tax deductable items.

Properties held for resale have been written down progressively in previous accounting periods. Because of a lack of sales, we have obtained an updated current market valuation and have found it necessary to make a further write down provision. The properties are listed for sale.

The Directors appointed Deloitte in late 2009 to undertake a sales process for the Satellite phone services business and three non binding offers have been received. Due diligence is proceeding and it is expected that a result for the sale process will be announced before the end of March. The sale consideration should exceed book value.

The Directors advise that the results for the year have been adversely impacted by the provisions noted above. The year has been one of consolidation for the Group and a period where business efficiencies and improved profit performance have been called for from all operating sectors.

Major changes and improvements were made in a professional approach to the running of the Snowdon and Satellite businesses and in the operations of the associate Seating Systems temporary seating company.

We continue to improve our collection results on the distressed finance company loan books which we have purchased and we have improved on the already good results we were achieving.

We were determined to improve the results in the non finance subsidiaries and associated companies and while some material improvements have been made we recognise this as an ongoing process.

The year has been all about consolidation and improving efficiency. We have held back on new growth initiatives. New lending in the finance company sector has been quite limited during the whole of the reporting period.


S Grozev
Company Secretary
As authorized by the Directors.

Income Statement
https://www.i-search.nzx.com/blobs/NZSE0000/2010/326745/NZSE0000-114608.pdf

Balance Sheet
https://www.i-search.nzx.com/blobs/NZSE0000/2010/326745/NZSE0000-114604.pdf

percy
23-02-2010, 03:17 PM
Thanks for the above post silverlight.
No surprises with rightdowns.Note shareholders equity still an inredible 40% of total assets.Finance side of the business very strong .
AH has run a good ship.My gripe is with the takeover offer. It has destroyed the share price.It is an insult to shareholders to expect them to accept funny money for their listed security.Hanover"s victims were pleased to exchange their funny money for a listed security .ALF.

SCOTTY
05-03-2010, 07:48 PM
The Statement of Cash Flows for the 12 months ended 31 December 2009 as supplied to the NZX makes interesting reading:

www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/CYT/announcements/3388249/CYT-Cashflow-12months-to-December

percy
05-03-2010, 09:08 PM
thanks for posting the link scotty.
well,well,well net cash flows used in operating activites $2,031,000 well,well,well. No surprises there. Paid a nice bit of TAX.that,s the stuff profitable companies have to pay for being profitable.

Steve
07-03-2010, 06:27 PM
That must be the cashflow that AH wants to use so he can repay the funny-money security holders...

percy
07-03-2010, 06:44 PM
That must be the cashflow that AH wants to use so he can repay the funny-money security holders...

Steve you have been 100% with all your posts. Right again.

SCOTTY
22-03-2010, 04:20 PM
- Brian Gaynor in the NZ Herald 13th Feb says "Investors must be wary of takeover bid" and gives very good reasons to reject it.
- Chalkie in the Independent 28th Jan says "Cynotech shareholders should refuse to have a bar of it"
- McDouall Stuart tells investors "not to even think about accepting the offer"
- The independent directors don't recommend acceptance of the offer.

Today acceptances total 76.77% for the ordinary shares - WHY? It is not like they will be getting cash any time soon.

Steve
23-03-2010, 05:16 PM
What happens with those who have not accepted the offer?

SCOTTY
23-03-2010, 07:26 PM
What happens with those who have not accepted the offer?

I think that the questions are: Can Allan Hawkins access the company cash without getting control of 100% of the company? Don't you have to have at least 90% of the company before you can make a compulsory offer for the balance?

percy
26-03-2010, 09:40 PM
Yes Scotty you are right.And to pay funny money holders interest he will require dividends.He cannot pay himself,must pay all shareholders.At 78% he is short of the 90%he would require to make a compulsory takeover.It will be interesting to see if anybody builds a 10% blocking holding.

Steve
27-03-2010, 03:42 PM
It will be interesting to see if anybody builds a 10% blocking holding.

I can't see that happening at this late stage in the game...

percy
27-03-2010, 04:15 PM
I can't see that happening at this late stage in the game...

I can't either really.sorry to see major shareholders accept it.

SCOTTY
27-03-2010, 08:51 PM
Is there not a blocking holding there already? At this stage over 21% of the company is not in Hawkins' control which is a block!! I for one do not intend to sell unless I am offered a realistic CASH offer. If at least 10% hold out then he does not get over the 90% required for a compolsory takeover trigger and I do not see how Hawkins can get control of the company cash until he has 100% of the company. What other options are there? The fat lady is not singing yet.

SCOTTY
29-03-2010, 02:01 PM
According to the "Trading Post" in the Sunday Star*Times Page D2 March 28th, M.W.Daniel, N.G.Burton & M.M.Benjamin disclose a 10.59% holding in Cynotech Holdings Ltd. Is this the Blocking bid you are looking for Percy? There would still be another 11.03% Block as well as this holding as the offer is now unconditional today with 78.38% acceptance.

Silverlight
29-03-2010, 02:13 PM
Ordinary shares 78.38%
Convertible preference shares 51.4%
Warrants 71.90%


By converting the preference shares how many do they own?

By coverting the warrants how many do they own?


It seems it would be greater than the face value 78.38%

percy
29-03-2010, 02:22 PM
According to the "Trading Post" in the Sunday Star*Times Page D2 March 28th, M.W.Daniel, N.G.Burton & M.M.Benjamin disclose a 10.59% holding in Cynotech Holdings Ltd. Is this the Blocking bid you are looking for Percy? There would still be another 11.03% Block as well as this holding as the offer is now unconditional today with 78.38% acceptance.

No ,was foolishly hoping GPG or someone else with broad shoulders and deep pockets would stir the pot.I worry the fat lady may have lost her song book,bit like the money CYT shareholders have lost.The 11.03% you refer to would be made up of a large number of parcels of shares under 1mil. I would think,far from being a strong blocking holding, and would expect they will realise the cause is lost,and would accept it.Not a good out come at all .funny money holders living in hope,remaining shareholders living in hope,sellers at 4cents giving up hope.

SCOTTY
29-03-2010, 02:45 PM
No ,was foolishly hoping GPG or someone else with broad shoulders and deep pockets would stir the pot.I worry the fat lady may have lost her song book,bit like the money CYT shareholders have lost.The 11.03% you refer to would be made up of rats and mice I would think,far from being a strong blocking holding, and would expect they will realise the cause is lost,and would accept it.Not a good out come at all .funny money holders living in hope,remaining shareholders living in hope,sellers at 4cents giving up hope.

I've been called a lot of things in my time - maybe a rat but never a mouse!!

percy
29-03-2010, 02:50 PM
Ordinary shares 78.38%
Convertible preference shares 51.4%
Warrants 71.90%


By converting the preference shares how many do they own?

By coverting the warrants how many do they own?


It seems it would be greater than the face value 78.38%

Silverlight.I tried to send you a PM but failed.

percy
29-03-2010, 02:55 PM
I've been called a lot of things in my time - maybe a rat but never a mouse!!

To SCOTTY I am sorry,the post has now been corrected and I am sure you are a pussie cat!!!

SCOTTY
29-03-2010, 03:14 PM
To SCOTTY I am sorry,the post has now been corrected and I am sure you are a pussie cat!!!

You can call me what you like, but I can get very nastie when people try to steel from me. MINORITY SHAREHOLDERS HAVE RIGHTS. I believe that Mr Hawkins is locked out of the cash until he has 100% ownership. I suspect that the other minority shareholders will feel the same as me otherwise they would have taken the "funny money" offer. Give me a reasonable offer of real money and I will happily leave this circus.

percy
29-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Give me a reasonable offer of real money and I will happily leave this circus.[/QUOTE]

Get your fancy dress on because you are still in the circus and may be called on to preform replacing the fat lady who lost her song book.

Silverlight
30-03-2010, 01:06 PM
follow up on yesterdays post:

Ordinary shares 78.38% * 122,885,996 = 96,318,044
Convertible preference shares 51.4% * 3,303,224 = 1,697,857
Warrants 71.90% * 28,138,856 = 20,231,837

If hawkins convert the prference shares and warrants to shares they will hold 118,247,738 of 144,815,690 or 81.65%.

percy
30-03-2010, 03:22 PM
silverlight.
go to page 72 cynotech securities group limited combined prospectus and investment statement.note 11 interest bearing loans and borrowings
secured loans Wairahi Trust 13% interest rate,$6mil.
now go to page 14 Takeover Offer.1st holding MW Daniel,NG Burton,MM Benjamin Wairahi Holdings Limited.
Now ask youself who screwed the fat lady?Sorry I meant to ask who stole the fat lady's song book??
Now look to see who is the only large shareholder other than AH.
You may wish to comment.I will not, so you may now understand why i wanted to send you a PM.
The warrants have 30cents to pay to convert.That will not happen.

SCOTTY
31-03-2010, 04:38 AM
silverlight.
go to page 72 cynotech securities group limited combined prospectus and investment statement.note 11 interest bearing loans and borrowings
secured loans Wairahi Trust 13% interest rate,$6mil.
now go to page 14 Takeover Offer.1st holding MW Daniel,NG Burton,MM Benjamin Wairahi Holdings Limited.
Now ask youself who screwed the fat lady?Sorry I meant to ask who stole the fat lady's song book??
Now look to see who is the only large shareholder other than AH.
You may wish to comment.I will not, so you may now understand why i wanted to send you a PM.
The warrants have 30cents to pay to convert.That will not happen.

While looking at the Combined Prospectus and Investment Statement, go to the first paragraph on P20:
[Introduction
This further information is included about the CHL Group because CSGL is reliant on the returns paid by theCHL Group to be able to pay its dividends on the Preference shares and to ultimately provide funds from the realisation of assets of the CHL Group for the redemption of the Preference shares by CSGL.]
also on P22 second paragraph:
[While the assests of CHL are in the process of being realised it will be necessary to ensure that the operations of the CHL Group continue to operate efficiently to allow the payments of Revenue dividends to CSGL at a level sufficient to allow CSGL to pay quarterly dividends to the holders of the Preference shares. The earnings of CSGL will depend on the ability of CHL to continue to pay a Revenue dividend to the holders of its ordinary shares and other securities.]

The way that I see it is that you acceptors of the funny money will only get your 13.5c and upto 8% interest if CHL remains operating and viable. By sticking with the CHL shareholding us stayers will have to get payouts at the same ratio as AH (which he will need to pay you) we will also get any residual value if any from our CHL holdings if and when CHL is wound up - UNLESS WE GET A BETTER CASH OFFER IN THE MEAN TIME.

Cheers

percy
31-03-2010, 07:03 AM
scotty
I was trying to help silverlight add the numbers up on shareholdings in CYT.I see a relationship between AH and the second largest shareholderIn fact this relationship goes back a great number of years.How this relationship pans out will govern the out come for CYT.Between them they hold nearly 90%.In fact after their $6mil is repaid there is no reason for them to continue to be shareholders.

SCOTTY
31-03-2010, 10:36 AM
scotty
I was trying to help silverlight add the numbers up on shareholdings in CYT.I see a relationship between AH and the second largest shareholderIn fact this relationship goes back a great number of years.How this relationship pans out will govern the out come for CYT.Between them they hold nearly 90%.In fact after their $6mil is repaid there is no reason for them to continue to be shareholders.

There would be if they considered that they would get back more than 13.5cps

mr man
15-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Nice result posted for the 15 months to March. Only a loss of $3.7m

SCOTTY
15-06-2010, 04:31 PM
Nice result posted for the 15 months to March. Only a loss of $3.7m

Total equity down from $13.63mil to $10.03mil = NTA of 8.16cps
Liabilities down from $21.6 to $15.26mil
Total equity now 40% (from 39% Dec 2008)

SCOTTY
09-07-2010, 04:55 PM
AGM set for 4.00pm 21st July at Kent Street , New Market. Is any one going? Would be good to get a post on what transpires. Unfortunately I am in Christchurch so can't make it.

Cheers

SCOTTY
11-07-2010, 10:38 AM
AGM set for 4.00pm 21st July at Kent Street , New Market. Is any one going? Would be good to get a post on what transpires. Unfortunately I am in Christchurch so can't make it.

Cheers
P.S.
If there is a non shareholder who would like to go to the meeting and who would report on the meeting on this site, let me know and I will send you my shareholder proxy for the meeting.

Romulus
12-07-2010, 08:55 AM
Scotty, have you ever rung the company and spoke with AH or Com Sec? I hope someone takes up your offer, it would be good to guage the mood and some indication on how AH is going with potential 13c payout for those who took the offer. I assume you still hold CYT shares. Regards

whatsup
12-07-2010, 03:26 PM
P.S.
If there is a non shareholder who would like to go to the meeting and who would report on the meeting on this site, let me know and I will send you my shareholder proxy for the meeting.

give me a call 0274821506.

SCOTTY
13-07-2010, 09:23 AM
Scotty, have you ever rung the company and spoke with AH or Com Sec? I hope someone takes up your offer, it would be good to guage the mood and some indication on how AH is going with potential 13c payout for those who took the offer. I assume you still hold CYT shares. Regards
Hi Romulus
No I have't rung the company since the time of the offer when I called the Company Sec. to express my displeasure at the low, cashless offer!!
Yes, I still hold shares.
Cheers

SCOTTY
13-07-2010, 09:25 AM
give me a call 0274821506.
Thanks whatsup.
Proxy form and report in the mail to you today.
Hope you enjoy the meeting
Cheers

percy
19-07-2010, 05:20 PM
Hi Whatsup.
I am looking forward to your post as to how the meeting went.I have never understood how AH was so positive in all of his communications,until such time as he cancelled the divie then mounted the funny money takeover.I will be interested to hear if he is positive or not for CYT's future.
You could ask him if he felt the company was well positioned for the upturn.?

Romulus
22-07-2010, 10:02 AM
Did anyone manage to make the AGM and if so is there something to tell?

whatsup
22-07-2010, 01:13 PM
Did anyone manage to make the AGM and if so is there something to tell?

I attended, A H spoke of the not too great prospects going forward, the real parts of the biz arnt doing too well, icream cones only producing at half capacity, Findata being would down at a wright off/loss, seating co has some good biz but more or a summer investment, debter book biz so-so , loan cop good biz but on small loans, from where I see it and IMHO AH will make another offer when it suits him, no divs for the fore seeable future and very little wiggle room as well. With this co one really has to read between the lines as to its future, who is the majority share holder

percy
22-07-2010, 02:47 PM
whatsup.Thank you for reporting the meeting.I think you have done us proud.

Romulus
22-07-2010, 03:51 PM
Does sound like he is softing us up for another offer. I guess he is holding all the cards.

Thanks for the update.

SCOTTY
22-07-2010, 05:34 PM
Thanks for going along to the meeting whatsup. Inclined to agree with you Romulus. A.H. could be softning us up for another offer. Still think that he has to get over 90% so that he can access the company coffers. Without 90% he has to treat all shareholders equally and he probably needs to to access the cash to pay interest/capital for the "funny money" acceptors. Otherwise he will have to pay divi's or return capital to all shareholders on a per share basis. It would be easier for him if he owned the whole company and did not have to be accountable to minority shareholders. Or, am I missing something here?

SCOTTY
27-07-2010, 09:49 AM
Good to see that the case against Budget Loans (owned by Cynotech) for breaching the Fair Trading Act has been settled. Pleaded guilty and fined $30,750. Probably a good result for Cynotech shareholders. One problem out of the way.

Romulus
30-07-2010, 12:13 PM
Trading Halt- any ideas Scotty?

Silverlight
30-07-2010, 02:18 PM
Consideration of de-Listing from NZX

Cynotech Holdings has decided to pursue an alternate listing to NZAX listing and has advised
NZX of this today.

This is expected to involve all of the equities issued by Cynotech.

Shareholders need to be aware it is the Board’s intention that Cynotech Holdings equities will
still be listed, just that this may be on an alternate exchange.

Details are to be discussed with NZX, and as further details are finalized shareholders will be
advised.

SCOTTY
31-07-2010, 10:07 AM
Consideration of de-Listing from NZX

Cynotech Holdings has decided to pursue an alternate listing to NZAX listing and has advised
NZX of this today.

This is expected to involve all of the equities issued by Cynotech.

Shareholders need to be aware it is the Board’s intention that Cynotech Holdings equities will
still be listed, just that this may be on an alternate exchange.

Details are to be discussed with NZX, and as further details are finalized shareholders will be
advised.

Probably less regulation so not a move that will enhance shareholder value.

Silverlight
03-08-2010, 09:17 AM
03 August 2010 - NZX Supervision Announcement - Cynotech Holdings Limited (CYT) - Late Annual Report

NZX Market Supervision advises that Cynotech Holdings Limited (CYT) has not provided its annual report for the period ending 31 March 2010, which under Listing Rule 10.5.1 was due to be issued to NZX on 2nd August 2010.

Pursuant to the policy set out in Footnote 2 of Listing Rule 5.4.3, if an Issuer has not issued its Annual report within 5 Business Days of the due date, quotation of that Issuer’s Securities will be suspended until the Issuer has issued its Annual report in accordance with Listing Rules 10.5.1 and 10.5.2.

If CYT have not issued its report by Monday 9th August 2010, NZX gives notice that trading in CYT securities will be suspended effective from the commencement of trading on Tuesday 10th August 2010.

peat
10-08-2010, 08:55 AM
suspension has occurred.
Isn't this actually playing into AH's hands?

Romulus
10-08-2010, 09:09 AM
One would wonder whether the intials "AH" are bewitched! Perhaps the two AH's could get together and combine into AAHH!

mr man
05-10-2010, 08:19 AM
Show me the money !!! Where has the Cynotech Securities quarterly dividend gone?

BRICKY
05-10-2010, 04:32 PM
Got a check in mail today.

mr man
06-10-2010, 02:04 PM
Sorry, not the CYTHA's but the Cynotech Securities Group Limited Preference shares which were dished out for the CYT head shares in the takeover. The dividend that was supposedly paid quarterly. 1st one got paid but thats it.

percy
06-10-2010, 02:43 PM
You should have received a newsletter from cynotech securities group limited which stated;"the directors of CSGL are unable to recommend a quarterly dividend for the period to 30th september,because of the poor CHL result and the inability of the directors of CHLbeing able to make a distribution recommendation at this time."
On 19th october you will have the opportunity to trade CSGL preference shares.Send Buy and Sell requests to info@canopus.co.nz or by fax 09 4448059.

SCOTTY
18-12-2010, 11:00 AM
Cynotech HY to 30th Sept out on Friday. Just in the black @ $109K. To view the numbers, go to: www.cynotech.co.nz - Market Releases

Cheers

SCOTTY
23-03-2011, 06:12 PM
The shareholders in Cynotech Securities Group Limited (CSGL) seem to be kept more informed as to what is going on within the listed Cynotech Holdings Ltd (CYT) than do the long suffering shareholders in the listed company which is not fair. In the CSGL Newsletter - 31 March 2011, Chairman Allan Hawkins stated:

"We are working hard to get better results out of all the subsidiary companies in the Cynotech Holdings Group.
The Cynotech Finance Group incorporating Budget Loans and Evolution Finance is getting increased levels of cash in each week from the collection of the old National Finance and Western Bay Finance loan ledgers. Budget Loans is only doing minimal levels of new lending.

The team at Snowdon, the ice cream cone manufacturer, are still working hard to cut costs and to rationalise all aspects of the business operation. Continual cost increases in New Zealand manufacturing inputs continue to be a problem.

Seating Systems is still going well in obtaining new temporary grandstand seating contracts and with the requirements of various stadiams for the Rugby World Cup the forward work load is very satisfactory. Unfortunaately, so far, profit has not kept pace with the volume increases but we are improving."

After reading this report, the outlook for CHL would appear to be positive despite the last trade at 2c !!!!

Romulus
23-03-2011, 06:41 PM
Thanks Scotty for the update. I owe a few CYT and like you did wonder how things were doing. Do you have a link to the newsletter and is there also accounts for CSGL that are recent?

SCOTTY
23-03-2011, 07:12 PM
Sorry Romulus. It was with a share Redemption Security Statement (no accounts included) sent to a friend of mine who holds CSGL. He very kindly sent me the email. I only hold CYT so feel a bit p.....d off as I have been since receiving the "funny money" offer which I did not accept (call me old fashoned but I like real money). Still think that AH will have to take out us minorities before he can get his hands on "the cash".

mr man
30-03-2011, 01:17 PM
Scotty, don't take this the wrong way but do you really think AH is going to look after those shareholders who didn't accept his funny money takeover offer? Given the relationships between the major holders of CSGL (friends & family), the funding of CHL (friends & family) and the funding / ownership structure of Seating Systems (yep, you guessed it, friends & family) I'd be thinking that the repatriation of cash out of CHL will be skewed towards those at the top of the 'friends of Cynotech Securities' list. AH will probably find various ways to 'legally' transfer profits / surplus cash / assets out of CHL & therefore out of the reach of minority shareholders. With this in mind I don't think he has any intention of taking out the minorities from a cash perspective. He may however decide to do so from an audit perspective as 'regulation' may be an unwelcome distraction. The movement in CHL's balance sheet from last March to this will be interesting. My opinion only.

SCOTTY
30-03-2011, 05:48 PM
Scotty, don't take this the wrong way but do you really think AH is going to look after those shareholders who didn't accept his funny money takeover offer? Given the relationships between the major holders of CSGL (friends & family), the funding of CHL (friends & family) and the funding / ownership structure of Seating Systems (yep, you guessed it, friends & family) I'd be thinking that the repatriation of cash out of CHL will be skewed towards those at the top of the 'friends of Cynotech Securities' list. AH will probably find various ways to 'legally' transfer profits / surplus cash / assets out of CHL & therefore out of the reach of minority shareholders. With this in mind I don't think he has any intention of taking out the minorities from a cash perspective. He may however decide to do so from an audit perspective as 'regulation' may be an unwelcome distraction. The movement in CHL's balance sheet from last March to this will be interesting. My opinion only.

Hi mr man

I have given a lot of thought to this and personally I do not think that AH has any option but to make an offer to the 22% minority shareholders in CHL to achieve his goal of privatising the company. I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment: "from an audit perspective as 'regulation' may be an unwelcome distraction". He has to get 90% control before he can compulsorily acquire the minority holders and get access to the company cash/assets and not have to share the spoils or be accountable to minority shareholders. AH will certainly want to stay within the law. Interestingly he has kept the company listed. Why? The 22% minority holders must be very annoying for AH. Time will tell.

P.S. Worth remembering mr man, that through CSGL, AH increased his stake in CHL from about 13% (I think?) to 78% without outlaying any capital !! - just a promise to pay 13.5cps at some time in the future whilst paying 8% on any outstanding balance of the 13.5cps. (Bernard Whimp will be impressed and green with envy). The family would have been happy to go along for the ride with their shareholdings into CSGL as I guess that over time they will be the beneficiaries. This will only leave the 22% minorities in CHL to be acquired to enable full ownership and control. Even if he had to pay say 20cps for this 22% stake, he would have got himself ownership of the total company for $5.3mill (26.5 mill shares @ 20c). The total future profits or asset sales could then be used to pay down the CSGL Preference Shareholders at the convienience of Mr. AH.

percy
30-03-2011, 06:21 PM
I sometimes wonder if AH is bi-polar,as he sends rosie reports to CSGL holders,but very gloomy reports to CYT holders.
Can not see him wanting to spend his retirement years defending Securities Commission charges.Do not see 'friends & family' paying his legal fees.
So he needs to tidy up the paper work and the shareholdings. May he live in interesting times.

percy
31-03-2011, 07:07 AM
Hi mr man

I have given a lot of thought to this and personally I do not think that AH has any option but to make an offer to the 22% minority shareholders in CHL to achieve his goal of privatising the company. I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment: "from an audit perspective as 'regulation' may be an unwelcome distraction". He has to get 90% control before he can compulsorily acquire the minority holders and get access to the company cash/assets and not have to share the spoils or be accountable to minority shareholders. AH will certainly want to stay within the law. Interestingly he has kept the company listed. Why? The 22% minority holders must be very annoying for AH. Time will tell.

P.S. Worth remembering mr man, that through CSGL, AH increased his stake in CHL from about 13% (I think?) to 78% without outlaying any capital !! - just a promise to pay 13.5cps at some time in the future whilst paying 8% on any outstanding balance of the 13.5cps. (Bernard Whimp will be impressed and green with envy). The family would have been happy to go along for the ride with their shareholdings into CSGL as I guess that over time they will be the beneficiaries. This will only leave the 22% minorities in CHL to be acquired to enable full ownership and control. Even if he had to pay say 20cps for this 22% stake, he would have got himself ownership of the total company for $5.3mill (26.5 mill shares @ 20c). The total future profits or asset sales could then be used to pay down the CSGL Preference Shareholders at the convienience of Mr. AH.

Scotty.
Exactly.
Bernard Whimp will jump on the idea.

mr man
31-03-2011, 08:29 AM
ok how about this then.

Aim is to repay CHL deposits first, then distribute balance, if any, to CSGL holders.
1. Sell Snowdon (lucky to get much more than $1.5m if that. Might be a firesale to exit as losses can only be carried for so long)
2. Sell Seating Systems - possible merge with a competitor (Accrow?), breakup & sell assets, sell to Ausssie V8 seat provider. Another fire sale & unlikely to recover enough to repay debts let alone any surplus. Never made a profit & unlikely to (except in world cup year maybe).
3. Loan books broken up & sold off in marketable chunks.

End game = Depositors repaid (friends & family happy), a chunk of CSGL prefs repurchased (friends & family happy), balance of loan assets in CHL swapped with debts to CSGL ie transferred out of CHL (friends & family happy as still have some future benefits to accrue). CHL becomes a shell company.

Sorry to burst your bubble but hoping for a 20c mop up of the register is rather unlikely. I would doubt he or anyone else would pump $5m more into an enterprise in wind down mode with questionable assets. CSGL has complete control now.

SCOTTY
31-03-2011, 09:29 AM
ok how about this then.

Aim is to repay CHL deposits first, then distribute balance, if any, to CSGL holders.
1. Sell Snowdon (lucky to get much more than $1.5m if that. Might be a firesale to exit as losses can only be carried for so long)
2. Sell Seating Systems - possible merge with a competitor (Accrow?), breakup & sell assets, sell to Ausssie V8 seat provider. Another fire sale & unlikely to recover enough to repay debts let alone any surplus. Never made a profit & unlikely to (except in world cup year maybe).
3. Loan books broken up & sold off in marketable chunks.

End game = Depositors repaid (friends & family happy), a chunk of CSGL prefs repurchased (friends & family happy), balance of loan assets in CHL swapped with debts to CSGL ie transferred out of CHL (friends & family happy as still have some future benefits to accrue). CHL becomes a shell company.

Sorry to burst your bubble but hoping for a 20c mop up of the register is rather unlikely. I would doubt he or anyone else would pump $5m more into an enterprise in wind down mode with questionable assets. CSGL has complete control now.

Yes, but is it in wind down mode? The loan books/collection businesses are churning out good cash flow. What do you think the residual business is worth?

The whole point about CSGL is that it is the owner of 78% of the CHL ordinary shares. The other 22% have to be treated the same as CSGL when it comes to divis or capital distributions. The CSGL Pref. Share holders in CSGL who are owed 13.5c plus interest will only get paid if CHL pays divis or repays capital which would have to be paid to all CHL shareholders. To my knowledge the 78% holding is CSGL's only investment. Obviously AH thinks that there will be a residual value in CHL after paying off the Prefs, otherwise he would have wound the company up.

mr man
31-03-2011, 12:49 PM
Definately in wind down mode. Would be fairly sure AH wants out but needs to ensure associated investors & deposit holders don't take a bath. Face saving stuff.

What makes you think the loan books are churning out good cash? I reckon the best of the loans have either been collected or sold off. Next to no new lending happening, probably only a bit of refinancing. The balance of the book is probably hard to recover Budget loans which are I assume being actively persued but ultimately may have to be written down / off, or the stressed loans that were purchased. Of those stressed loans, the easy ones have been collected & what remains would have to be the most difficult. Whilst cash collections may be ok, collection costs get proportionately more expensive. If surplus cash was being churned out there would have been no need to 1) Sell the golden goose CSL, 2) cancel that CHL dividend at the last minute, 3) miss the second CSGL div payment, 4) Substitute the last 2 CSGL div payments for Pref buybacks, ie the CSGL prefs were bought back with their own money being the div payment that wasn't paid!! Very sneaky and no one says a thing??? Also the CSGL pref holders are technically owed nothing. The 13.5c is really whatever AH wants it to be & the interest, well, how much of that has been delivered so far? As for what its worth, a big unknown is the value of the Snowdon & the Seating businesses, which i would say are worth far less than directors valuations.

SCOTTY
31-03-2011, 02:53 PM
Hi mr man

Thanks for your posts, really appreciate your input.

Re: "What makes you think the loan books are churning out good cash?"

In the CSGL Newsletter - 31 March 2011, AH says:

"We are working hard to get better results out of all the subsidary companies in the Cynotech Holdings Group.
The Cynotech Finance Group incorporating Budget Loans and Evolution Finance is getting increased levels of cash in each week from the collection of the old National Finance and Western Bay Finance loan ledgers. Budget loans is only doing minimal levels of new lending."

The way I read this is that the money is coming in and being accumulated?

mr man
31-03-2011, 04:04 PM
Hi Scotty. If you read all the Directors reports over the last few years you will hear pretty much the same story. "The Finance Group continues to collect an increasing amount of cash etc". Now look at the position of the company. Family silver has been sold CSL, continued losses in Snowdon plus huge funding requirements for Seating Systems which now has quite a lot of debt attributed to it. Additionally no new lending so the revenue base is getting squeezed. What is replacing every good loan that gets settled? Maybe getting a couple of stressed loans on board but their reliability must be questionable and the costs attributed to getting the payment going are not insignificant.

Say the loan starts paying $10 per week. Cost to get them paying through tracking them down & court orders etc say $500. Thats a year before breakeven cash is received without funding costs for initial $500 outlayed plus staffing etc. And thats assuming payment continues uninterrupted for a year. Remember these are loans that haven't paid for a long time & more than likely the asset (car) backing up the loan no longer exists. The incentive to pay is, well, zero. The easy ones have been collected with many settled or close to settlement. Whats left are the bottom of the barrel after literally years of chasing.

As for accumulating cash, I would say any surplus is going to debt reduction. Funnily enough the banking facilities are being paid down first (rate maybe 8%) before depositors where some have rates of 12-13%. Doesn't that seem odd?

I just don't see a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Be nice if there was. Would be more than happy for you to change my pessimistic view.

percy
31-03-2011, 04:19 PM
Hi Scotty. If you read all the Directors reports over the last few years you will hear pretty much the same story. "The Finance Group continues to collect an increasing amount of cash etc". Now look at the position of the company. Family silver has been sold CSL, continued losses in Snowdon plus huge funding requirements for Seating Systems which now has quite a lot of debt attributed to it. Additionally no new lending so the revenue base is getting squeezed. What is replacing every good loan that gets settled? Maybe getting a couple of stressed loans on board but their reliability must be questionable and the costs attributed to getting the payment going are not insignificant.

Say the loan starts paying $10 per week. Cost to get them paying through tracking them down & court orders etc say $500. Thats a year before breakeven cash is received without funding costs for initial $500 outlayed plus staffing etc. And thats assuming payment continues uninterrupted for a year. Remember these are loans that haven't paid for a long time & more than likely the asset (car) backing up the loan no longer exists. The incentive to pay is, well, zero. The easy ones have been collected with many settled or close to settlement. Whats left are the bottom of the barrel after literally years of chasing.

As for accumulating cash, I would say any surplus is going to debt reduction. Funnily enough the banking facilities are being paid down first (rate maybe 8%) before depositors where some have rates of 12-13%. Doesn't that seem odd?

I just don't see a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Be nice if there was. Would be more than happy for you to change my pessimistic view.

I have to admit my more optmistic view is changing towards your pessimistic view.

mr man
14-06-2011, 08:00 AM
Prelim annual report out. Nothing to get excited about if you're not a shareholder. If you do have an interest in this entity then plenty to get excited about. Deterioration of net assets continue with further writedowns accross the board. ($4 million)

*Realisation that the Fair value Loans are not that flash. Gee didn't see that one coming.
*Seating systems is not flash either. My guess is its true value is tied to the price of scrap steel. On a plus note there is no cash loss associated with this writedown. Oh thats right, because the cash has already been spent. Could never get my head around the concept of no impact on cash for a writedown. If you sold it, you'd get cash. If you write it off, you get nothing. Just roughly, the difference between the two is the impact on cash. Its all timing. No impact on cash would mean the associated debt incurred when creating the asset has been forgiven. Ok I'm talking nonsense but I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere.
*Property values down again.
*No comment on Snowdon trading. Can I assume then thats not flash either?
*No dividend. As expected cos there's no cash.

percy
14-06-2011, 08:53 AM
Very sober reading.Equity has gone from excellent 40% to terrible 9%.No ray of sunshine anywhere.

mr man
14-06-2011, 09:41 AM
Remember though it was never 'an excellent 40%' as stated in the last report. These writedowns aren't a 12 month movement. They are a slow recognition of the state of play a few years ago, and I would suspect there are more to come.

percy
14-06-2011, 10:45 AM
Remember though it was never 'an excellent 40%' as stated in the last report. These writedowns aren't a 12 month movement. They are a slow recognition of the state of play a few years ago, and I would suspect there are more to come.

Unfortunately you are correct.I have believed too long that the equity was maybe not excellent,but very good.Thought it may come down to a still very strong 25 to 30%.Wrong again.!!!! I think you are right with more to come,unfortunately there is not much left.!!!

SCOTTY
22-09-2011, 12:15 PM
The Chairman's AGM comments dated 21st Sept make interesting reading - all is not lost apparently:

https://www.nzx.com/companies/CYT/announcements/214072

percy
22-09-2011, 03:17 PM
I have to admit my more optmistic view is changing towards your pessimistic view.

And now back to optimistic.Thanks for the link SCOTTY.

mr man
22-09-2011, 03:48 PM
“all is not lost apparently “
Ummmm I'm thinking it pretty much is. At least for CYT shareholders, and I'd seriously question the value able to be delivered to CSGL pref holders, and over what timeframe.

Lets start with the Finance Arm. Fundamentaly probably used to be a good business but now not of a size thats economical to run with, and shrinking. Low fruits been picked. Needs to be bigger to churn cash through from a relending perspective. My guess is that any positive cash is eaten by overheads with very little if any able to be reinvested. (else we would see a growing loan book or cash distributions)

Manufacturing, ok an admission that importing is more competitive than NZ manufacturing which would lead me to suggest the clock is ticking re keeping the factory doors open or flogging it off for not much. Whats an idle cone factory worth these days.

Temporary seating, so the price of scrap metal is....? Might be able to bundle it up with the cone factory for a scrap metal multi buy. Apparently no rugby world cup next year & the V8's are getting smaller & smaller. Selling seats may bring in some cash but goodbye future rentals from that customer. No easy solution to this one.

& don’t get me started on the comment 'not necessarily cash losses'
If by chance any of those writedowns are reversed will we get the comment ‘don’t take any notice because they’re not cash’?

percy
22-09-2011, 05:09 PM
Good post mr man.

mr man
30-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Didn't see that coming. Hamilton V8's end after 2012. Say good bye to the one big contract the seating business is based around. I expected a slow decline / sell off for the seating business. Guess its pretty much all over now.

percy
30-09-2011, 03:01 PM
With AMI stadium in ChCh not able to be used, seating may be sold to Rugby Park {CHCH}, Rugby League Show grounds {chCh], and Timaru stadium also needing more seating all my not be lost.

mr man
05-10-2011, 07:15 AM
I have no doubts the seats can be sold, or even the business as a going concern (unlikely though). The question really is whether they can be sold for more than the associated debt on the balance sheet. My thoughts are that the write downs so far still do not represent fair value and are based on valuing the business as a going concern with sufficient future work in hand to justify that. No V8's after 2012 sort of knocks that on the head. The value then becomes 1) whats the going rate for second hand scaffolding (in a market where construction is having a tough time) and 2) whats the going rate for second hand plastic seats. With oversupply & no foreseeable major events it can't be good. Also other players in this space may be looking to exit seats too.

percy
05-10-2011, 08:06 AM
I have no doubts the seats can be sold, or even the business as a going concern (unlikely though). The question really is whether they can be sold for more than the associated debt on the balance sheet. My thoughts are that the write downs so far still do not represent fair value and are based on valuing the business as a going concern with sufficient future work in hand to justify that. No V8's after 2012 sort of knocks that on the head. The value then becomes 1) whats the going rate for second hand scaffolding (in a market where construction is having a tough time) and 2) whats the going rate for second hand plastic seats. With oversupply & no foreseeable major events it can't be good. Also other players in this space may be looking to exit seats too.
Looks as though non-cash write down will really turn out to be a cash "write off."

mr man
14-10-2011, 10:22 AM
So where's all this cash then? The CYTHA's are being redeemed at 1.5% of holdings for $1 each, don't have a problem with that, but where is the quarterly interest payment. Looks to me that they are buying back our own CYTHA's with our own interest payment? WTF?

Percy, tell me I'm seeing this all wrong.

percy
14-10-2011, 10:56 AM
Seeing perfectly clearly unfortunately.Where indeed is the interest?
The catch 22 is CYT will have to pay AH a divie so he can pay CSGC holders.Yeah right.
If you are feeling really brave you could ring and ask AH.!!!!!!!

mr man
19-10-2011, 08:02 AM
And did we receive anything (interest) re the CSGL thingies we swapped our shares for for the Sept quarter? Any notification we were going to receive nothing? Or did I just miss it? I nominate percy to call AH. I would but I think I'd probably crack up laughing as this is becoming a bit of a joke. Cynotechs number is 09-520-6073 assuming the website is correct & they are still around.

percy
19-10-2011, 08:24 AM
And did we receive anything (interest) re the CSGL thingies we swapped our shares for for the Sept quarter? Any notification we were going to receive nothing? Or did I just miss it? I nominate percy to call AH. I would but I think I'd probably crack up laughing as this is becoming a bit of a joke. Cynotechs number is 09-520-6073 assuming the website is correct & they are still around.
No,No,No, and no way.!!! I usually get on with people very well on the phone and find out what or more than I wanted to.EXCEPT the time I rang AH.Thought he was going to come down the telephone line and throttle me.!!!! true.!!!!!

mr man
19-10-2011, 09:31 AM
Nice to hear you've already got a relationship with him. Suggest you don't start with "Show me the money" straight away. Maybe too pushy and might get him a little excited. How about gently lead in with "Hows the weather, where's my *****g money gone."

SCOTTY
19-10-2011, 10:08 AM
Nice to hear you've already got a relationship with him. Suggest you don't start with "Show me the money" straight away. Maybe too pushy and might get him a little excited. How about gently lead in with "Hows the weather, where's my *****g money gone."

You are the Man Mr Man. You have my vote!!

mr man
19-10-2011, 02:45 PM
No, not me. I'm just here to stir. Much more fun to hear Percy recount another bollocking from AH.

mr man
18-11-2011, 11:03 PM
Half year report out. $700k pretax loss. No surprises there. Finance arm doesn't appear cash positive. Gains look like loan revaluations. Might be wrong there but the book value of the Fair Value loans has gone up $300k. Write them down at the end of the year, write them back up at half year. Seems a bit mickey mouse to me. Cones continue to struggle, sales look down, but I guess its expected over the winter period. Like to know where the 70% of the NZ cone market figure comes from. Seating business shut up shop, scrap value. Dividend cheque in the mail.

Interesting Directors comment only on assets, not net assets. Equity only 1.1m.

percy
21-11-2011, 05:14 PM
Half year report out. $700k pretax loss. No surprises there. Finance arm doesn't appear cash positive. Gains look like loan revaluations. Might be wrong there but the book value of the Fair Value loans has gone up $300k. Write them down at the end of the year, write them back up at half year. Seems a bit mickey mouse to me. Cones continue to struggle, sales look down, but I guess its expected over the winter period. Like to know where the 70% of the NZ cone market figure comes from. Seating business shut up shop, scrap value. Dividend cheque in the mail.

Interesting Directors comment only on assets, not net assets. Equity only 1.1m.

"the finance group is VERY MUCH THE ENGINE ROOM of CHL Group's operations and is cash positive.Going forward as resources allow we will MAJOR on this sector of our business for FUTURE GROWTH." Yeah Right.!!!!!!
Manufacturing; not licking good.
Temporary Event seating;stuffed.
Forward outlook;"we feel that we have turned a number of corners in the last six months,and we have made good ground in the finance sector in particular."
the reality is assets have gone down.Equity down 80% to $1.1mil,while liabilities have increased.Looks to me as though there are a good number of difficult corners coming up.!!!!!

mr man
22-11-2011, 09:30 AM
You could be positive & say that without the Seating business draining cash, cone business maybe cash neutral on an annual basis, they might be able to recover enough cash to put something back into the business...........nope, sorry, just can't convince myself there's an upside. I think its only real purpose now is to provide a vehicle for a select few to feed from till its all gone. Hard calls are being forced now. These should have been made a few years ago.

mr man
15-06-2012, 12:05 PM
Could it be nearing the end? Posted an unaudited $2.4m loss. Shareholders Funds now NEGATIVE $743k. Take off the potentially rubbish assets like 'Stuff held for sale' & fixed assets & you're down another $1.4m. Then consider that the Fair Value loans may be a tad overstated at $6.4m, 2 years ago were $8.8m, thought these were supposed to be increasing in value as more loans got turned into payers, & you'd have to say the train wreck is almost complete.

How long before the depositors wake up & just quietly ask for their $ back.

And whats with the declaring a Capital Securities dividend & then a day later undeclaring it? Good move considering but have to ask is the left testicle not talking to the right testicle?

percy
15-06-2012, 07:06 PM
Declaring a divie, then cancelling it was when everything started to go wrong a few years ago,so we have been there before.!!!
No surprises there.!!!
The liabilities we know are at real value,however the assets at fair value are "a pig in poke",so I agree with your statement "the train wreck is almost complete."

SCOTTY
16-06-2012, 03:42 PM
Hi mr man.

It certainly does not look good. However there are a few things that I can't get my thick head around for which you may have the answers;
- Loan receivables of $6.39m as apposed to face value as per loan ledger of $22.452m. A differance of $16m.
- Accumulated losses of $20.099m. Do these have a value?
- Staff now 18, down from 72
- With only the finance company operation and without the loss making manufacturing business and reduced staff, do you think there is now a viable business?

mr man
18-06-2012, 08:03 AM
Hi Scotty

Loan receivables are valued at what the Directors want them to be valued at (auditors are flexible as the Directors pay their fees). Say they have two loans for $1000 each. One is paying regularly & the other is not. The discounted valuation of face value of the paying loan may $600. Not the full $1000 as it has to be collected over 3-6 years & there's still risk it won't plus cost of money etc. The other loan looks a dead duck but they may know where the people are so there may be still some life in it yet. Therefore that valuation will have a massive discount & may come in at say $50. Therefore book value will be $650 but original face value of the loans outstanding will be $2000.

Accumulated losses will only really have some kind of tax benefit I guess. Not something to count on.

I would guess the staff movements reflect staff from the sale of the cone factory & dissolution of the seating business plus probably general downsizing in the office.

The viability depends entirely on the ability to collect cash, not revalue the loans. They pay hard cash to depositors, staff, & general running expenses. Therefore they need a level of loans paying hard cash to cover this. They could revalue loans to $22m if they liked, but it won't pay the rent.

From the accounts its a bit unclear (to me anyway) how much income is cash & how much is revaluations. My gut feel is revaluations have been stretched to keep equity positive....untill now, & cash bleed is an issue. Viable business, gut feel says no. Be intersting to see the movements in depositors money from last year to this. Rightly or wrongly, could read a lot into that.

The light in the tunnel just may be an oncoming train.

SCOTTY
20-06-2012, 02:51 PM
Thanks mr man

You would think that there is some value otherwise A H would have walked by now. I guess we will just have to watch this space :rolleyes:.

Cheers

mr man
14-08-2012, 01:59 PM
Highly qualified audit report, negative shareholders funds and now the Independent Director gone. If AH walked there would be no one left. No value continuing other than to save face with depositors. How negative can the shareholders funds go before the plug gets pulled? Is there a limit?

percy
14-08-2012, 03:08 PM
mr man.
Do you know if Budget loans are doing any new lending?
No I am not going to ring AH.!!!!! lol.

mr man
14-08-2012, 04:19 PM
Hi Percy, I only have the announcements to go off. They imply they are but I can't see that they are generating enough free cash to do so. A bunch of loans appear to be ringfenced to match up with a chunk of debt. Would assume they are the 'good payers' to guarantee the interest demands. That leaves the rubbish loans to fund the other depositors & the operation. Any cash from the sale of the Cone operation (to an ex director wtf??) seating business & properties would have gone straight against debt. The operation does look cleaner but i just can't see that its big enough to get any forward traction to pay depositors AND have anything meaningful left over to reinvest. I've written my investment off in this shambles & don't expect anything back. Sorry for the rant, still haven't gotten over my stupid 'investment'.

percy
14-08-2012, 04:31 PM
Hi Percy, I only have the announcements to go off. They imply they are but I can't see that they are generating enough free cash to do so. A bunch of loans appear to be ringfenced to match up with a chunk of debt. Would assume they are the 'good payers' to guarantee the interest demands. That leaves the rubbish loans to fund the other depositors & the operation. Any cash from the sale of the Cone operation (to an ex director wtf??) seating business & properties would have gone straight against debt. The operation does look cleaner but i just can't see that its big enough to get any forward traction to pay depositors AND have anything meaningful left over to reinvest. I've written my investment off in this shambles & don't expect anything back. Sorry for the rant, still haven't gotten over my stupid 'investment'.


Thanks for your reply.
No rank;just sums up correctly how I feel too.

percy
15-08-2012, 11:50 AM
mr man.
Do you know if Budget loans are doing any new lending?
No I am not going to ring AH.!!!!! lol.

WELL surprises.ONE Percy The Brave rang cynotech.
TWO,yes Budget loans are still making new loans,according to the young woman who answered the phone.
ps.Did not ask for AH. [no surprise there]

mr man
15-08-2012, 12:38 PM
Haha, go Percy The Brave!! Did you ask whether a refinanced loan qualified as a new loan? How many 'new' loans are just reclassification of Fair Value loans? Finance Receivables have gone from $2,256k down to $2,184k. Looks like they've realised more loans than they've made. Doesn't look like a growing loan portfolio to me. Mr Man the Chicken would like to know when we might see a Finance Receivable balance bigger than the one the year before.

percy
15-08-2012, 02:05 PM
Haha, go Percy The Brave!! Did you ask whether a refinanced loan qualified as a new loan? How many 'new' loans are just reclassification of Fair Value loans? Finance Receivables have gone from $2,256k down to $2,184k. Looks like they've realised more loans than they've made. Doesn't look like a growing loan portfolio to me. Mr Man the Chicken would like to know when we might see a Finance Receivable balance bigger than the one the year before.

Should alter my post to Percy the not very brave one.!!!! No, only spoke to the young woman who answered the phone.!!! I even missed how she answered the phone.!!!! [09]520 6073 for anyone prepared to ask Mr Man's good questions.!!!

mr man
24-08-2012, 12:52 PM
Nows your chance Percy, Director nominations, be Brave. I'll vote for you!! Just make sure all your assets are in a trust first.

percy
24-08-2012, 01:19 PM
Nows your chance Percy, Director nominations, be Brave. I'll vote for you!! Just make sure all your assets are in a trust first.

ESP at work? When I read the announcement I thought of you too.!!!!!!!

Sideshow Bob
25-08-2012, 06:44 AM
There was a story on Campbell Live the other day about Budget Loans, about a guy would acted as guarantor to his sons loan for $4.5k - son lost his job, man's wife lost her job. In the end, car repossessed, man filed for bankruptcy, lost everything. Yet they still came after them for more money..............

There was $15k of repayments, they got the car back and he still owed $33k!

Out of the kindness of their heart, they wiped the remaining interest and offered to return $1,300.

I realise that Campbell Live probably don't paint all the facts in a completely balanced way and don't also give much time to the other party (ie in this case Budget Loans), but I'd be pretty ashamed being a shareholder of a company that operated in such a way, and looked to make money off hawking loans at large rates to the poor/vulnerable sector of society.


http://www.3news.co.nz/Getting-out-of-snowballing-debt/tabid/817/articleID/266275/Default.aspx

percy
25-08-2012, 06:56 AM
, but I'd be pretty ashamed being a shareholder of a company that operated in such a way, and looked to make money off hawking loans at large rates to the poor/vulnerable sector of society.


We are ashamed,disgusted,and embarrassed,and wish we had never heard the name Alan Hawkins.
Made a note never to invest in anybody who has a "history."Has meant I have missed out on both ATM [Cliff Cook at MET] and DIL [Gerald Henry and his family at Energy corp].
Thanks for the link,however I make a point never to watch Campbell.

mr man
27-08-2012, 07:40 AM
yep, pretty accurate account of how they operate & not happy about having invested in them on any level. They operate in an area where if managed correctly, those loans provide a way for those without credit options to for instance buy a car. There is a valid place for them guys to operate. Problem is most of the punters are, dare I say it, not that smart, & don't understand what they are getting into. Loan rate, 24%, default rate 36%, guarantor means exactly that. Rates are high because defaults are high. At least they have to operate within the law. Without them you'll have more dudes in blacked out vans breaking legs for missed payments. & no, not defending them, just saying the alternative could be worse. Don't know the answer.....education maybe? Seems to fix most things.

corporateraider
28-08-2012, 09:12 PM
yep, pretty accurate account of how they operate & not happy about having invested in them on any level. They operate in an area where if managed correctly, those loans provide a way for those without credit options to for instance buy a car. There is a valid place for them guys to operate. Problem is most of the punters are, dare I say it, not that smart, & don't understand what they are getting into. Loan rate, 24%, default rate 36%, guarantor means exactly that. Rates are high because defaults are high. At least they have to operate within the law. Without them you'll have more dudes in blacked out vans breaking legs for missed payments. & no, not defending them, just saying the alternative could be worse. Don't know the answer.....education maybe? Seems to fix most things.

Had a chat with Alan Hawkins last week. I don't intend to state what he talked of as I didn't say that I might be reproducing stuff on this forum. I can say that he was very approachable and keen to talk about the business. He obviously knows the finance business inside out, but we know that anyway.

He still seems very determined to make Cynotech work, albeit from a small base.

mr man
20-11-2012, 10:13 AM
Certainly got a small base now. Clock is ticking.

percy
20-11-2012, 10:55 AM
Hope Mr Man or Corporateraider attends the AGM and gives us an account/report.

mr man
22-11-2012, 09:51 AM
Been to a couple a while ago. Don't need a cup of tea & a biscuit that badly. Only a fraction of whats really going on is ever released, & with a spin that makes everyone think "gee thats not too shabby at all". People still seem to think there is some value here. I don't think there is, just my opinion. Negative shareholders funds & continued losses & highly qualified audit might just be a clue, dunno.

percy
22-11-2012, 09:57 AM
Been to a couple a while ago. Don't need a cup of tea & a biscuit that badly. Only a fraction of whats really going on is ever released, & with a spin that makes everyone think "gee thats not too shabby at all". People still seem to think there is some value here. I don't think there is, just my opinion. Negative shareholders funds & continued losses & highly qualified audit might just be a clue, dunno.

Sorry you don't need a cup of tea & a biscuit.Thought he may have thrown in an old icecream cone.!!
Would have been good to hear what he had to say. I often find what is said after the meeting of most interest.
Agree with your comments,and no I am not going to phone him.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

mr man
22-11-2012, 11:28 AM
How about you phone him & ask:

1. How much was lost on sale of the apartments? Including holding costs.
2. Were any of the apartments sold to 'related' parties (that includes friends)?
3. How much was lost on sale of cone factory? Including surplus plant.
4. Was the cone factory sold to a 'related' party (that includes friends)?
5. How much was lost on the Seating Systems venture?
6. How much was lost on the Findata venture?
7. Is there anything left to sell?

Come on Percy, you know you want to.

percy
22-11-2012, 11:42 AM
How about you phone him & ask:

1. How much was lost on sale of the apartments? Including holding costs.
2. Were any of the apartments sold to 'related' parties (that includes friends)?
3. How much was lost on sale of cone factory? Including surplus plant.
4. Was the cone factory sold to a 'related' party (that includes friends)?
5. How much was lost on the Seating Systems venture?
6. How much was lost on the Findata venture?
7. Is there anything left to sell?

Come on Percy, you know you want to.

I was busy laughing my head off until I woke up you may be serious.?! lol

mr man
22-11-2012, 02:33 PM
Nah, I'm more the sarcastic cynic type, seldom serious, especially when it comes to Cynotech. Gotta say though, would be funny to pose a list of questions like that to them at the meeting. Could go one of two ways. Spin machine goes into overdrive...or AH goes super nova & explodes in a fit of anger taking out the board & the front 3 rows of Cynofans leaving the other two in the room with gooey stuff all over them wondering if now would be an opportune time to have that cup of tea.

percy
22-11-2012, 03:29 PM
Now that must be the best post I have read all year.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mr man
01-02-2013, 03:21 PM
Change of Auditors. Can control the gamekeepers for only so long....then you need a new gamekeeper.

percy
01-02-2013, 03:28 PM
Change of Auditors. Can control the gamekeepers for only so long....then you need a new gamekeeper.

Was thinking the same myself.!!
Was in Newmarket on Wednesday.Thought of AH.Did not drop in for a chat,.??!!

biker
01-02-2013, 04:39 PM
Had a chat with Alan Hawkins last week. I don't intend to state what he talked of as I didn't say that I might be reproducing stuff on this forum. I can say that he was very approachable and keen to talk about the business. He obviously knows the finance business inside out, but we know that anyway.

He still seems very determined to make Cynotech work, albeit from a small base.

He obviously knows the finance business 'inside' , obviously doesn't know it 'out'.

As slippery as ever.

Has had another chance to show what he is made of in the world of business.

I guess The defunct CYT is the evidence.

IMHO

PS. I hope that isn't too harsh

mr man
04-02-2013, 09:53 AM
Harsh? Market cap is now less than his 'Annual Fee'. My guess is that major shareholders are only hanging on to ensure it stays if the public arena for a bit of sport.

mr man
27-03-2013, 11:50 AM
Ummmm no dividend for March. Why am i not surprised? Why do I waste my time following this company? We all like to watch a train wreck I guess.

percy
03-04-2013, 06:07 PM
From Cynotech Securities Group Ltd., 31/3/13 newsletter;
"For the first time I think we can report some light at the end of the tunnel but it is only an unconfirmed glimmer at this stage."

SCOTTY
03-04-2013, 08:22 PM
From Cynotech Securities Group Ltd., 31/3/13 newsletter;
"For the first time I think we can report some light at the end of the tunnel but it is only an unconfirmed glimmer at this stage."

Thanks Percy

This is very very exciting stuff - has truely made my day :)

Cheers and more beers :p

mr man
24-06-2013, 10:31 AM
That light at the end of the tunnel just might be a freight train. Well someone had to say it.

Loss of $1.3m, negative equity of $3.8m, how long can this go on? Surely the depositors are getting nervous now? With all the restructuring thats gone on, still no profit. One might question the viability of the remaining operation....or one could put their head back down in the hole.

percy
10-07-2013, 05:38 PM
That light at the end of the tunnel just might be a freight train. Well someone had to say it.

Loss of $1.3m, negative equity of $3.8m, how long can this go on? Surely the depositors are getting nervous now? With all the restructuring thats gone on, still no profit. One might question the viability of the remaining operation....or one could put their head back down in the hole.

Certainly was a freight train.
Goodnight and goodbye suckers.!!!
Well no surprises there.!! Only surprise it took so long.!!

mr man
11-07-2013, 07:32 AM
Move on people, nothing to see here.

This joke is now out of the public eye. Damn, it was kind of entertaining in a masochistic kind of way.