Rubicon - any thoughts?

[artemis]

Have been holding and watching Rubicon for a couple of years, during which time the share price has hardly moved. It seems to be well run, has had a significant share buyback, but still no share price movement. No doubt suffering from the high dollar. What will it take to see some upwards movement.

[biker]

Lower NZ dollar,upturn in the US housing market and progress on commercialisation of ArborGen.

[shasta]

Artemis

RBC is still off the radar despite the fact it is a likely takeover target. When GPG sold out it still had 2 cornerstone shareholders with blocking stakes, RBC owns 50%+ of Tenon!

To take control of RBC, gives you control of TEN which would seem to be "the play", when (not if) it happens.

Have held/traded before, but currently on watch, awaiting further activity from the major shareholders.

I would have thought Third Avenue Management (holding 18.84%) would make a move while our dollar is high v the $US.

Watching the volume & charts with interest.

[hods]

So what has pushed it up today ?

[shasta]

Hods

Good question?

Was rather heavy volume over just 21 trades in RBC, & with the Tenon Chariman buying more Tenon shares On Market...

Keep an eye out for the USD over $0.70 v NZD, this may be the catalyst for this "play" to happen.

[frosty0612]

Hi, I'm new to sharetrader, can anyone give me advice on whether I should be buying Tenon shares or Rubicon shares? Thx.

[Westie]

quote:I would have thought Third Avenue Management (holding 18.84%) would make a move while our dollar is high v the $US.

Third Avenue is a fund manager. I've never heard of them buying a whole business.


quote:Hi, I'm new to sharetrader, can anyone give me advice on whether I should be buying Tenon shares or Rubicon shares? Thx.

Personally if i had to choose 1 I would hold RBC as you get exposure to Tenon + exposure to RBC's holding in arborgen, horizon etc.

However, in saying that, it seems more likley that action will happen on Tenon before any of RBC's other investments come to fruition. Moriarty's recent purchase of 24000 shares of Tenon may lend support to this idea (assuming that he could equally have purchased RBC shares but chose not to).

The Third Ave website have a link to a Barron's article on the manager of Third Avenue's International Value Fund (owner of the Ten & RBC stakes). He's got a background in forestry & has 8.5% of the fund in forest products. Seems like he has a pretty fair idea of what he's doing.

[frosty0612]

Hi,thx for that Westie, I see that RBC has 57% of TEN. Based on mkt cap of $232m for RBC and $200m for TEN then RBC share holding in TEN is worth $114m.
The market is placing a value of $118m on RBC's other assets. Anyone know if they might be worth those sorts of numbers? Presumabley Moriarty didn't think so.
Thx again for your help.

[barney]

Frosty
Have you checked out the Rubicon website?If you look at the publications section you will see under presentations and shareholder notices addresses from past agms and an update on Arborgen from November last year.The update will give you some info on what Arborgen is doing and what the management of Rubicon think its potential is worth.(but keep in mind it is what the MANAGEMENT think it's worth.Not necessarily what the market thinks it's worth.)

In regards to Moriarty's shareholding in Rubicon the annual report from 2006 had him listed as holding just under 1.4m shares.You will also find that several of the US based fund managers who hold large holdings in Tenon are also large shareholders in Rubicon.

[PointyHat]

I have held for some time, selling half my holdings at 1.03 29/10/04 and bought a top up later when sp was low. (I don't hold TEN as I am in with RBC and sold my Fletcher Forest/TEN shares years back.)

I must admit I was expecting the NZ$ to go lower earlier than this or I might have got out of RBC totally in 2004.

Each RBC result however does show that there is a a solid long term investment here and the trusts and long termers must be interested for the growth and potential of Horizon and Arbogen. Especially with the Assie & NZ possible tree planting programmes.

I have also thought over the years that a take over might be on the cards. Either a buy up of TEN or while the RBC sp is low a stand in the market?

Now is a good time for these thoughts, as future results and returns from TEN will be in (hopefully) high US$ and converted to low NZ$!!

I think that is what makes it still a hold for now for me. It would be interesting to know what the brokers advise on RBC. Does anyone know?

[PointyHat]

Well the directors appear to want their salaries brought forward 24 months and paid in RBC equity.
(No dilution and NZX appear to be happy with the waiver to obtain shareholders approval! So it's a done deal)
It would seem that they have enormous confidence in the sp moving north soon.

I am happy to hold and ride this one for growth. Anyone else agree?

[Westie]

Agree. Another US based value hedge fund disclosed a significant holding recently too. The plot thickens.

[barney]

It was interesting that another fund manager has taken a stake.The US fund managers certainly are positive on Rubicon.Obviously they see some real potential in Arborgen and the only way they can get a real slice of that potential is via Rubicon.Last weeks Independent had an article on Rubicon under their Chalkie column which focussed on Arborgen and the progress they have made.Makes interesting reading if you're a Rubicon shareholder.

[ari]

Phew.....that was close....just thinking about selling my 50,000 parcel (no reason, just getting bored) after flat lining for so long. Now in bottom drawer!

[barney]

I see Third Avenue Management have again increased their holding in Tenon.Todays SSH showing they now hold 16.77%.They also hold 17.76% of Rubicon.I guess at some time in the future there will be some activity around Tenon but who would know when.

[PointyHat]

Well, I know that RBC are not big daily volumes, not since the buy back, but there are only 4k at 97c and 4k at 99c available on the sell side. The sp will surely move now if no one is prepared to sell, and the instu's are picking up the spare!

[PointyHat]

PS The directors have already made 2% on their 24 month salary forward paid lump sum, in 5 days! Nice one, I wonder if they could do with a new director with a neat hat (me)?

[ari]

From todays Sunday Star....:D:D:D
Rubicon marches back into limelight with bold moves
By TIM HUNTER - Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 1 April 2007

Rubicon, the company that time forgot, is trying to attract attention again after a long uneventful period in its six-year existence.
There are two reasons for this, which may or may not be related.
One is the looming prospect of financial rewards from its one-third shareholding in American biotech company ArborGen.
The other is its decision, announced a week ago, to dispense with salaries for its executives and reward them instead with shares. This bold move gives Rubicon's executives strong incentives to maximise the company's share price over the next two years - a process that requires them to clearly communicate its value to the market.

Rubicon's biggest asset is a 57% stake in Tenon, a wood processing company that was once Fletcher Forests. That stake is worth about $115 million at current market prices.

But it is ArborGen, based in South Carolina, that holds the most upside potential. The company - formed seven years ago as a joint venture of International Paper, MeadWestvaco and Fletcher Forests - is focused on developing better trees through biotechnology and genetic research. Hence its slogan - more wood, less land.

Its research efforts, funded to the tune of millions by its shareholders, are beginning to show rewards and the first of its radical products is close to commercial launch.

In Brazil, fast-growing eucalyptus - crop rotation is just seven years -is the main feedstock for pulp mills making high-quality paper. ArborGen has enhanced pulping eucalyptus by reducing its levels of lignin, a component of cell walls that helps transport water in the tree and strengthens the wood. Reducing lignin to predictable levels makes better, cheaper pulp.

This is good for Brazil, but eucalyptus does not grow well in the southern US because of the extreme temperature fluctuations. So ArborGen has also developed eucalyptus that can tolerate the American climate.

Both those products are close to commercial launch, but having identified the genes for cold tolerance and low lignin, ArborGen can put those qualities together - a combination product is now in field trials.

What's that worth?

Rubicon CEO Luke Moriarty has estimated that cold tolerant eucalyptus generates $US45 ($63) in extra margin per tonne of pulp. Split evenly between the pulp mill and ArborGen, that works out at $US25 million in annual income for ArborGen, based on market assumptions.

Moriarty further calculated the present value of that income at $US300m, based on an 8% discount rate. Rubicon's one-third of that would be $US100m from a single product.

Given that the sharemarket currently values Rubicon's ArborGen stake at about $70m, Moriarty clearly sees a large payday for himself and other shareholders down the track.

More realistically, investors would use Rubicon's actual cost of capital, 17%, which produces a value to Rubicon of closer to $85m from the eucalyptus product - which is still very good.

ArborGen has several other products in the pipeline, mainly softwood pine species, but its CEO Barbara Wells sees huge opportunity as other markets develop.

"Look at technology and how critical it is for feeding the world, for providing fibre for the world. Biofuels are a classic example -we're getting to the point where we need technological solutions."

Wells sees trees as an ideal source of ethanol - they have a high tonnage yield per hectare and are not limited by a ripening season for harvest. ArborGen's technology will have valuable applications for biofuel, she says, but "in the next four years we have five commercial launches, four of which are transgenic products".

Moriarty translates the financial implications for Rubicon: "This is year seven. Another couple of years and then we'll watch the revenue flow in."

[PointyHat]

This looks encouraging for the future to offset the oil price increase. With NZO and this I am now into oil and gas in a bigger way:

RBC
28/06/2007
GENERAL

REL: 0959 HRS Rubicon Limited

GENERAL: RBC: ArborGen announced as partner in US$125m bioenergy centre

Auckland, 28 June 2007 - Rubicon announced today that ArborGen LLC - a world
leader in tree research and development, in which Rubicon has a one-third
ownership interest - has been named as a partner in a major US
Government-funded biofuels initiative.

Luke Moriarty, the Chief Executive Officer of Rubicon, said today's
announcement is a significant development for ArborGen, "confirming
ArborGen's leadership position in forest biotechnology, through its direct
involvement in one of the world's leading biofuels development programmes."

Refer attached ArborGen release.

________________________

ARBORGEN A PARTNER IN NEW NATIONAL BIOENERGY CENTER

Research into advanced biofuels aimed at boosting America's energy
independence

SUMMERVILLE, S.C., June 27, 2007 (US time) -- A team led by Oak Ridge
National Laboratory has won a bid from the Department of Energy for a US$125
million bioenergy research center that will seek new ways to produce
biofuels. ArborGen, LLC, a world leader in tree research and development, was
named as one of the partners.

Funded by the Department of Energy's Office of Science, the Bioenergy Science
Center will be located on the ORNL campus in a new facility funded by the
state and owned by the University of Tennessee. The center, one of three
funded from more than 20 proposals, will employ the interdisciplinary
expertise of the team's partners in biology, engineering and agricultural
science and commercialization to develop processes for converting plants,
including switchgrass and poplar trees, into fuels.

In announcing the awards, Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said, "These centers
will provide the transformational science needed for bioenergy breakthroughs
to advance President Bush's goal of making cellulosic ethanol
cost-competitive with gasoline by 2012, and assist in reducing America's
gasoline consumption by 20 percent in 10 years. The collaborations of
academic, corporate, and national laboratory researchers represented by these
centers are truly impressive and I am very encouraged by the potential they
hold for advancing America's energy security."

Barbara Wells, President and Chief Executive Officer of ArborGen, is excited
about her company's role in the new bioenergy center, noting that purpose
grown trees being developed by ArborGen will be a key resource for green
bioenergy. "We are in the beginning stages of a new biobased economy and the
breakthrough discoveries that will benefit society and the environment,"
Wells said. She added that trees dedicated to energy production will play a
crucial role in meeting the demand for biofuels. "Renewable energy can create
new markets for green products, boost local economic development, enhance
national energy security, and benefit the environment through lower emissions
and cleaner air," Wells said.

In addition to ORNL and ArborGen, the DOE Bioenergy Science Center partners
are the University of Tennessee, Dartmouth College, the University of
Georgia, the Georgia Institute of Technology, the Samuel Roberts Noble
Foundation, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and companies; Diversa
(now Verenium Corp.) in San Diego, Calif., and Mascoma in Cambridge, Mass.
The team also includes seven individual researchers from across the country.
ORNL's Martin Keller will serve as director for the center.

ORNL Director Jeff Wadsworth said the DOE project "will be a critical part of
America's efforts over the next decade to develop alternatives to fossil
fuels. I am proud that Oak Ridge will continue to play a leading role in
addressing one of the nation's biggest scientific challenges."

Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen noted that the DOE's award follows by two week

[Enumerate]

Have been following RBC since the days of the GEN.NZX Agrigen developments.

Finally, I have decided to start building a stake! The Arborgen side of the business looks very promising as an agri-biotech.

Any other interested holders? Is it worth posting a few observations on RBC? Am I talking to myself (<- "as usual!", the wags will point out).

[tim23]

Lost interest I did go to college with the MD and played a lot of cricket with him; I thought about buying some but never did!

[AMR]

It would be incredibly helpful if someone could provide a link to the futures markets of radiata pine lumber. Other soft commodities have already gone through the roof. When will China start buying up the world's forests and turning it into ethanol?

Anyway, TEN is in a strong downtrend and the chart for RBC is pretty quiet and heading sideways.

[Enumerate]

Do you reckon that RBC will complete it's takeover of TEN any time soon?

[skinny]

I'm a long term holder. Unfortunately I can't say much more on NZX stocks than that ;-)

[living2]

http://www.findata.co.nz/Markets/Quote.aspx?e=CME&s=LB.C

[Enumerate]

Tenon complicates the valuation of RBC. In many regards, exiting this holding and the complete focus of RBC as an agri-biotec would make understanding the company a bit easier.

At the moment, RBC have exposure to license/royalty streams at the beginning of the plantation phase. In many regards, the failure of lumber prices to "boom", like most global commodities, puts pressure on plantation owners to find faster, better tree stock. Arborgen meets this need.

Unlike most research biotechs, Arborgen has a degree of control over the supply to plantation forest owners of new tree stock. They also have scale and relationships. Hence the revenue "back of the envelope" calculations are more that fanciful speculation.

Tenon exists at the other end of the value chain. They process timber for various ornamental building purposes. The business seems to be doing quite well. Structural changes have been made. It is a question of weathering the US building start down turn.

I wonder if the move to 51%+ was to effect some structural changes in Tenon. It would seem logical to either move to 100% (given the collapse in the TEN shareprice) or to go to 0% (if a MBO or perhaps a premium US buyout could be arranged).

[ari]

Why the wild swings in recent times, mainly on small volumes...anyone have some news, are we due to run our vehicles on trees yet?

[barney]

Over the last week or two there has been some large sales which seems to have forced the price down.One of the larger holders must have been reducing their holding which in a stock like Rubicon can be difficult due to the low daily turnover.It ends up causing a large movement in the shareprice.Hopefully the same will happen in reverse when somebody wants to buy a large stake.

I guess it's no suprise that some of the large US shareholders may want to look at reducing their holdings in light of whats going on with the US economy.

It will be good to get a progress report on Arborgen with the annual result due in August.Interesting that this years AGM will be held in the US.

[ari]

Don't 4 years go fast.......still holding, but as thread title asked back then 'Any thoughts'. Where to now?

[ari]

Trading halt.....wot's their next move?

[Lizard]

Probably to do with price or prospectus for the Nasdaq IPO of Arbogen? Doesn't look to involve Tenon anyway...

[Lizard]

Actually, from this article (http://seekingalpha.com/article/268850-ipo-preview-is-arborgen-too-early?source=feed), says it will open IPO today, so would think release of prospectus and pricing.

Could also be to do with research into the potential of their low-lignin Eucalypts as per this article (http://www.agrimarketing.com/ss.php?id=67069), but that doesn't seem trading halt material - and also not certain of the date on that as the symposium looks to have been 2-5th May.

[COLIN]

I don't follow this share, but can't help commenting on today's notice. What a lot of codswallop about "market conditions in the US not being favourable for an IPO by Arborgen"! So when will they be favourable? I pity long-suffering shareholders in RBC.

Lesson: Don't hold on indefinitely if a stock is obviously not going anywhere, when there is something else you could invest in that would give you a better return.

SELL INTO WEAKNESS, BUY INTO STRENGTH.

[ari]

First they drop on IPO announcement by Arbogen which would leave RBC with less, now they drop because IPO cancelled for the time being???????

[barney]

Some larger than normal turnover running up to the proposed IPO. As is usually the case with bad news announcements some people appeared to have an idea that things were'nt going so well.

Best thing they can do is try and take a chance to exit when they look at alternative ways to raise capital. Otherwise we'll all be sitting here forever.

Beggers belief really that they could be so optomistic about Arborgen and then drop this clanger the day before the IPO.

[ari]

Rubicon -any thoughts? was the title of this thread back in 2007. Certainly expect some ups and downs but current price is certainly cheap......but for what?

[ari]

Large volume today, which is certainly out of the norm for RBC. 2,610,000 traded so far today!

[Random_Walker]

Large volume today, which is certainly out of the norm for RBC. 2,610,000 traded so far today!

I think a week or two ago I read a newspaper article about some US hedge fund (Sandell?) wanting to replace the board, sell Tenon and Arborgen and wind up RBC... can't remember exact details but I'm someone else here might?

[Random_Walker]

Well a quick Google search revealed a presentation by Sandell on what they are proposing:

http://www.sandellmgmt.com/News/Rubicon.pdf

(http://www.sandellmgmt.com/News/Rubicon.pdf)Thoughts?

[ari]

Thanks RW, don't know how I missed very interesting article which really puts it on the line.
Has there been any response from RBC etc Just love the mis-management call re all companies - NOT! I've held shares for some 7 years but certainly never thought it would come to this.

[ari]

Aircraft biofuel plan may bring trans-Tasman boon (ex NZ Herald)
The future of aviation fuel may be growing on trial plots in northern Australia, as scientists search for new means of keeping the world's airliners aloft.

The Australian government science agency CSIRO and American aviation giant Boeing have launched a study to evaluate the potential to turn biomass into climate-friendly aviation fuel.

Arbogen have been working down this path for some time...
Arbogen-GMO Trees for Ethanol
Genetic Modification Applied to Improve Biomass Output
Applying genetic modification techniques similar to those used in field crops, ArborGen, LLC, is developing trees as biomass feedstocks for cellulosic ethanol.

[biker]

Buying at these levels. Value at 38c for the medium term? More upside than downside IMHO. ( however my buying could indicate imminent collapse.) Suggest your own research.

[biker]

Still buying. The offshore IPO speculators will finish selling one day.

[biker]

All good

GENERAL: RBC: USDA to Cut Regulatory Approval Timelines ArborGen

RBC
16/03/2012 08:30
GENERAL

REL: 0830 HRS Rubicon Limited

GENERAL: RBC: USDA to Cut Regulatory Approval Timelines ArborGen

USDA to 'cut in half' Regulatory Approval Timelines for Biotechnology
Products

16 March 2012 - Rubicon informed the market today of important changes that
have been made to the regulatory approval process for biotechnology products
in the US, which will be applicable to its biotechnology investment
(ArborGen). These changes are designed to streamline and shorten the timeline
to achieve deregulation petition determinations (i.e. regulatory approval
decisions in respect of the commercial release) of biotechnology products.

Determination timelines under the previous process, which is operated by the
US Department of Agriculture's (USDA) Animal and Plant Health Inspection
Service (APHIS), have, over the past decade, extended to more than three
years per petition on average. The new process outlined by APHIS this month,
is designed to shorten this determination period to only 13-16 months, and
importantly, will do so without reducing the quality of the environmental
review undertaken or of the final assessment made.

This process improvement has been achieved by moving the initial public
comment period to the beginning of APHIS's review rather than after its
environmental assessment report is made public as was previously the case,
and also through internal process changes that will now allow petition
applications to be declared complete (i.e. no further information required
from the applicant) by APHIS within 90 days of their receipt

When talking to the changes, Mr. Michael Gregoire, a USDA Deputy
Administrator, said that taking public comments on petitions for
deregulations at the start of the review process would allow the USDA to
address concerns early, improve the quality of the decisions made, and help
get new technologies on the market sooner.

Andrew Baum, president and CEO of ArborGen said, "These process improvements
announced by APHIS represent a significant improvement to the regulatory
approval process previously in place, and these changes will be welcomed by
the wider biotechnology community. The new process should achieve faster
petition determinations without foregoing any of the rigour of APHIS's
environmental assessment process. It is an excellent step forward for all
stakeholders, and ArborGen remains committed to work with USDA to ensure
efficient and timely approval of future biotechnology products under this
streamlined process."

[ari]

Excellent article by Brian Gaynor..todays Herald
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10794164

[barney]

I agree Ari, it is an excellent article. Sums up the whole Rubicon situation. Those big US shareholders should be kicking some butt.

[ari]

GE trees destroyed...
http://danswiringpage.com/3way_ani.htm
and then we have Organic NZ who are quite vocal re Scion
http://www.organicnz.org/soil-and-health-press/1222/something-smells-at-scion-ge-tree-site/

[ari]

Very colourful article, more rhetoric......just show me d'money!
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/157094.pdf

[barney]

Now they want shareholders to stump up more money again so they can " bring value to our Arborgen and Tenon investments for Rubicon shareholders."

It's all starting to wear a bit thin. Interestingly the only major shareholder mentioned as taking up their full entitlement is Knotts.

They won't be getting a cheque from me.

It's a pity that when the Rubicon gravy train left the station the shareholders were the only ones not on board.

[ari]

Yep as Brian Gaynor says in his article, they appear to have forgotten exactly what 'Rubicon' stands for. In this case standing still!
And also from same article "There is no reason for Rubicon to exist, it should be disbanded and its shareholdings in Tenon and ArborGen distributed to Rubicon's shareholders."

[ari]

Looks like Rubicon is going the same way as Arbogen when they announced the IPO.
Already 69% down and getting worse by the day! Taking up this issue is going to be one of my bigger calls!

[biker]

Needless to say down on tiny volumes.
I will be taking up the issue and will probably be applying for some of the over hang.
I like the potential of ArborGen and Tenon will do well when the US housing market recovers IMO.
Not without a considerable amount of risk but at 22c with a considerable amount of upside.
I like the fact that it is a non renoouncable and fully underwritten issue preventing bottom feeding during rights trading.
The hint of a successful ArborGen IPO will set this stock alight IMHO and I'm also comfortable that it's success will be good for the planet.

[ari]

I like your logic Biker....I've been in too long now to quit, so will be taking up shares. Was tempted yesterday at 23c!

[biker]

All good, with a full uptake from existing shareholders. Applied for more but didn't bid enough. Will top off on market. Good buying under 30c IMHO. Time will tell.

[ari]

All good news....IPO next?
http://www.virtual-strategy.com/2012/08/14/arborgen-poised-growth-acquisition-cellfor%E2%80%99s-varietal-business

[Anna Naum]

Whats really changed from last time they tried Ari?

[ari]

Well the news was positive, hence 3c lift. Last time people perceived that things were not quite rosy at Arbogen. Perhaps Arbogen had a crystal ball and saw the Aug/Oct fall. I'm picking first quarter 2013 IPO.

[Anna Naum]

So you think they will get it away this time?

[ari]

Arbogen is going through a transitory growth period, and what better way to get capital for expansion than an IPO and a listing to showcase their products to the world.

[Anna Naum]

So Ari, do you think they will actually find buyers this time? I am trying to work out what is the difference this time vs the last time they tried to IPO Arbogen and did not find any buyers.

[biker]

Good to see they only took a token 1.1 mil in cash and the rest in warrants. Shows they have faith in a successful IPO IMO. All good.

[biker]

A nice single buyer bid for 200,000 at 28c (and only 115000 on offer up to 31c.) Is this a yawn prior to RBC awakening?

[biker]

Interesting also that there seems to be no immediate interest in selling into that 28c bid.

i'm not wanting to ramp this stock but see a fading opportunity to take an attractive upside/downside risk, and (via Arbor Gen), help save the planet!

I'm going to shut up on this stock now and let the market take its course and eventually speak for itself.

All this only IMHO of course.

[biker]

9.5 million shares traded this morning at about 30.5c. A shareholder selling or just a transfer?

[biker]

Anyone going to the ASM in Wellington on Friday? Te Papa 0930. May pop in for a look.

[ari]

Thanks for that biker, knew it had to be close. More interest today than we have seen for a long time. Will wait for your thoughts Fri......IPO?:-)

[ari]

And your first assignment will be an IPO.....
http://www.arborgen.us/uploads/ArborGen_New%20CFO%20Eisenstadt_Press%20Release_FI NAL_010813.pdf

[barney]

Back in March 2012, Arborgen announced that the USDA had shortened the regulatory approval process for biotech products from around three years to 13 - 16 months. So hopefully we will see some good news in the months ahead regarding approval for Arborgens first biotech trees.

Tenon's shareprice appears to be making a bit of a recovery, probably on the back of the improved housing stats coming out of the US.

Here's hoping Rubicon's shareprice can recover from it's long, dismal run.

[biker]

Could this auger well for ArborGen?


Timberrrrr!... Will Be The Best Performing Asset In Next 7 Years Per Jeremy Grantham; Large Caps To Return 0.0%
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/15/2012 13:30 -0400



Going forward, when traders yell "Timberrrrrr!" it just may mean the diametrical opposite of what said announcement has traditionally implied. At least according to the latest just released 7 year forecast of various asset class returns as per Jeremy Grantham's GMO. In it, with Emerging Market stocks (supposedly Africa is envisioned here, as China's debt encumbrance is almost maxed out) second at 6.1%, and International Large stocks in third place. Those who hope to retire with their holdings of US Large Cap firms may want to reconsider, following a 0.0% return in 7 years, underperforming such simple things as cash which GMO sees as returning 0.1% (arguably this implies modest to quite modest deflation in the future). The worst of the worst? US and International bonds, with Inflation Linked bonds underperforming virtually everything with a -2.7% return.

[Food4Thought]

I just woke up in 1999. I checked the Rubicon website. Does it cost too much to keep your image in shape?

[biker]

I just woke up in 1999. I checked the Rubicon website. Does it cost too much to keep your image in shape?

What exactly is wrong with it F4T? Not the most swept up website out there, but it has the basic info and access/reference to more, is workable and is better than many so called sophisticated websites IMO.

Good to see a few more shares changing hands the last few days.

Roll on the ArborGen IPO.

[Food4Thought]

I felt like I walked into a company's office that say's, we know our stuff, we just don't know how to convince you. We are shy. Most businesses try to keep their online presence presentable. The site does not deliver confidence. Such as Xero's website. It makes me feel less comfortable with Rubicon, even though I am in favour of them. Do people walk into a run down looking car yard and think they are going to get good service? As exceptional as the sales person may be.

[Food4Thought]

Don't judge a book by it's cover etc etc. Yet, it doesn't hurt to try.

[Food4Thought]

Thanks Moosie. That hits the nail on the head. We are not talking about your local dairy here offering a portfolio of investments to their local customers. We are a business, doing transactions in 2013... 42 Below, Charlies Juice, would never have been taken seriously with a bit of bad packaging. I like Rubicon's intentions, I just wish they would learn the Harlem Shake.

[biker]

Rubicon is a very simple holding Company for Tenon and ArboGen.
I can't see the imperative to operate a flashy web site, when the companies in which they have invested, have it covered. Why waste the money?

[biker]

Thanks Moosie. That hits the nail on the head. We are not talking about your local dairy here offering a portfolio of investments to their local customers. We are a business, doing transactions in 2013... 42 Below, Charlies Juice, would never have been taken seriously with a bit of bad packaging. I like Rubicon's intentions, I just wish they would learn the Harlem Shake.

Rubicon isn't about packaging. It is about results from their investments, which IMO will come, and make the current share price seem a tad on the low side.

[Food4Thought]

Totally agree. I would think RBC should be heading North to the 50c mark. Especially with the claimed recovery outside of NZ. Don't get me wrong, I like RBC. How ever, I don't think they do themselves a favour sticking with an old On-Line image. Perhaps now is a great time for them to spend a little bit of their cash on re-assuring their current investors etc and potentially luring some new investors too. Confidence?

[biker]

Totally agree. I would think RBC should be heading North to the 50c mark. Especially with the claimed recovery outside of NZ. Don't get me wrong, I like RBC. How ever, I don't think they do themselves a favour sticking with an old On-Line image. Perhaps now is a great time for them to spend a little bit of their cash on re-assuring their current investors etc and potentially luring some new investors too. Confidence?
You have a good point. Why not drop drop Luke Moriarty, the CEO, an email and suggest it? Luke.Moriarty@rubicon-nz.com

[Food4Thought]

Thanks for that info Biker