HLG - Hallenstein Glasson

[Lion_graf]

this thread has certainly gone quiet..

[winner69]

this thread has certainly gone quiet..

Think punters are a bit worried and can’t wait for sales update

My pick is normalised / underlying sales not that good

Prob know Wednesday so they can a real positive rave of the warm fuzzy stuff at the ASM and subtly slip in the sales update.

Why’s you reckon liongraf

[arekaywhy]

this thread has certainly gone quiet..


I reckon there just isn't anything to talk about...cos if there was something bad, trust me, the place would be lit up!

[Beagle]

Out of interest - any guesses where HLG's SP would be at if it was dual listed in Oz ? ;)

Take into account just less than 60 mil shares
A reasonably tight Share register
A Retail track record in a volatile sector beaten by few if any others
A Dividend track record fully imputed similarly beaten by few if any others
Low P/E compared to others in a rising market
A Survivor which has beaten off others in Oz & in sector where many others have fallen over in their droves
or come cap in hand for large Stakeholder Cap raises (None of that with HLG)

Excellent synopsis. Shares down today by about the same as the 24 cent dividend which makes perfect sense seeing as they are now trading ex dividend.
Looks like the trading update will be reserved for the annual meeting on Wednesday at 10.00 a.m.
I am looking forward to that and reading the NZX release, (I would have liked to have been there but circumstances don't allow), and I am confident it will all be very positive.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

this thread has certainly gone quiet..

its a relatively boring day, stock is ex-divvy today and so is only up a cent or two.

One thing that bugs me is the amount of time many companies have between the ex-divvy date and the day they actually pay the dividend. Ideally I would be re-investing the dividend in todays lower price, but by the time the dividend is actually paid the share price is potentially substantially higher.

[Balance]

Think punters are a bit worried and can’t wait for sales update

My pick is normalised / underlying sales not that good

Prob know Wednesday so they can a real positive rave of the warm fuzzy stuff at the ASM and subtly slip in the sales update.

Why’s you reckon liongraf

Nervous?

Well, PGW today should provide some inspiration to calm the nerves - upgrade follows upgrade when companies are doing all the right thing.

[winner69]

Nervous?

Well, PGW today should provide some inspiration to calm the nerves - upgrade follows upgrade when companies are doing all the right thing.

Good point Balance

Another boomer of an update tomorrow ....and share price back over 7 bucks in no time

Wonder what sales growth to end of November was?

[Waltzing]

The october stats for retail which we popped up here the other day says down on last year for all retail. unless we got the number wrong and the govt stats were fed into our databases with a bad record buffer.

[sb9]

Good point Balance

Another boomer of an update tomorrow ....and share price back over 7 bucks in no time

Wonder what sales growth to end of November was?

I'm picking a decent update tomorrow and if its anything like a boomer, we might be on the way $8 mark in a hurry as another dividend isn't that far away in the new year.

[Beagle]

I'm picking a decent update tomorrow and if its anything like a boomer, we might be on the way $8 mark in a hurry as another dividend isn't that far away in the new year.
I agree. 24-25 cents fully imputed in April I reckon mate. Might even be 30 cents if they can't think of somewhere to invest some of their $50m cash mountain (worth 83 cents per share).

[Teatree]

Quote from jbwere
Another key development for NZ investors has been the steep decline in interest rates for term deposits, which as Phil Borkin discusses in our headline article, we expect could track even lower. Term deposits rates in NZ are now at levels that don’t justify their illiquidity (i.e. tying up your money over the time through to maturity), especially relative to JBWere’s interest rates for cash on call (currently 0.85% pa
Makes that yield on this and a few others even more compelling

[Beagle]

https://www.goodreturns.co.nz/article/976517928/renewable-electricity-news-drives-nzx-50-move.html?utm_source=GR&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GoodReturns+Market+Report+for+8+Dec+2 020
Excerpt
Westpac Bank strategists said the currency would resume its climb, potentially breaking above 71 cents again soon, then adding 3 cents in the first half of next year.

“Improved market sentiment has also lifted the New Zealand dollar. In fact, the New Zealand dollar has a head of steam up and we expect that this momentum will see the NZ dollar/US dollar crossrate hitting 74 US cents by the middle of next year,” Westpac economists said in a note.

Kiwibank’s Peter Hunt said he expects the kiwi to be at 77 US cents by the end of 2021.

If so that would have some very positive implications for importers like HLG and of course make it very tough for exporters.

[Raz]

https://www.goodreturns.co.nz/article/976517928/renewable-electricity-news-drives-nzx-50-move.html?utm_source=GR&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GoodReturns+Market+Report+for+8+Dec+2 020
Excerpt

If so that would have some very positive implications for importers like HLG and of course make it very tough for exporters.

Ha, hardly worth the breath to read that prediction, what would our RB do if that occurred and where inflation would likely be at with that level of currency appreciation...

[Waltzing]

For general retailing in NZ the amount of goods stuck in the ports and on ship versus in warehouse would be interesting to know. Surely most xmas stock has landed, if not then stock levels will be low for boxing day sales. Our local bike shop has been out of stock for a number of items for over 6-8 months now. Production out of china just stopped back in feb.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ship-stuck-at-sea-with-would-be-presents-until-christmas-eve-retailer-says-it-is-disastrous/6XUVTTYVCGHD2N5NXCGX227ZPI/

[winner69]

For general retailing in NZ the amount of goods stuck in the ports and on ship versus in warehouse would be interesting to know. Surely most xmas stock has landed, if not then stock levels will be low for boxing day sales. Our local bike shop has been out of stock for a number of items for over 6-8 months now. Production out of china just stopped back in feb.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ship-stuck-at-sea-with-would-be-presents-until-christmas-eve-retailer-says-it-is-disastrous/6XUVTTYVCGHD2N5NXCGX227ZPI/

HLG have world class supply chain experience that has proved to be resiliency through many world crises

Having 5 stock turns a year does mean they only carry stock to cover about 2 months sales though

No worries ...unlike your bike that needs a specific part at HLG you just get a different pattern / colour

[Waltzing]

winner(n) im sure you are right but everything comes on the same shipping lines. These days they are even calculating the carbon foot print of your pants... im mean your shirt and pants, socks and shoes .... is nothing not tracked any more? Of course soon those customer experiances will track your carbon points!!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123067447/christmas-joy-or-junk-have-cheap-plastic-gifts-been-unfairly-demonised

[winner69]

Nervous?

Well, PGW today should provide some inspiration to calm the nerves - upgrade follows upgrade when companies are doing all the right thing.


Yep PGW yesterday, IFT in play and Scales and Seeka this morning put out positive news

HLG up next

No worries

[sb9]

Bit of a bugger, not available to view ASM online...

[JeremyALD]

Bit of a bugger, not available to view ASM online...

You think they would of released an update by now. They aren't giving people much notice before market open when sales numbers will likely be updated at ASM.

[winner69]

Bit of a bugger, not available to view ASM online...

HLG always been a bit contemptuous towards shareholders (beside the old big ones) and they have never really been considered by Hlg ,,..bit if a pain having them methinks

[LaserEyeKiwi]

The october stats for retail which we popped up here the other day says down on last year for all retail. unless we got the number wrong and the govt stats were fed into our databases with a bad record buffer.

What stats are you talking about? November retail sales were up over 25% year on year.

“The Retail NZ Sales Index for November reports that spending through the month was around 25.7 per cent higher than last year, and that total spending since March is now 3.4 per cent higher than for the same nine months last year”

[Greekwatchdog]

Here you go..
Future Outlook
Following the latest COVID-19 lockdown in Auckland, thirteen Hallenstein Brothers stores and twelve
Glassons stores were closed during August 2020 and the eleven Glassons stores in Victoria Australia were
also closed from July 2020 to November 2020 in line with Victorian State Government guidelines. All
these stores have now reopened and are trading again with a strong focus on the peak Christmas season.
Despite these latest store closure disruptions, the HGH group business continues to trade ahead of last
year.
The 18 weeks of the new financial year have seen Group sales grow +14.51% on the same period of the
prior year. This has been driven predominantly by strong online sales as physical store sales growth has
been harder to achieve, particularly in CBD locations. Challenges with offshore shipping delays and
increased freight costs continue. Whilst we have a strong start to the new summer season the Company
continues to be cautious in regard to the future impacts of COVID-19 on customer confidence and
spending patterns in the lead up to Christmas. The pre and post-Christmas trading periods are such key
trading periods fo

[Waltzing]

What stats are you talking about? "

these were AUS stats not NZ - and i said they may be incorrect. AUS... not NZ.

Over all retail not HLG.
I think if you look at the post its pretty clear what was stated.


AUS - Stats for all retail.
Note: Victoria numbers were up over 5%.

All States.

Pivot tables ..Retail..in Millions.
AUS
2019;
OCT = 2126
2020;
OCT = 2083

2020 Quarterly % Variances.

March = -11
June = -22
Sep = + 35

[see weed]

It is a very quiet meeting. No one seems to be saying anything:confused:.

[peat]

market not that impressed ???

[Beagle]

Here you go..
Future Outlook
Following the latest COVID-19 lockdown in Auckland, thirteen Hallenstein Brothers stores and twelve
Glassons stores were closed during August 2020 and the eleven Glassons stores in Victoria Australia were
also closed from July 2020 to November 2020 in line with Victorian State Government guidelines. All
these stores have now reopened and are trading again with a strong focus on the peak Christmas season.
Despite these latest store closure disruptions, the HGH group business continues to trade ahead of last
year.
The 18 weeks of the new financial year have seen Group sales grow +14.51% on the same period of the
prior year. This has been driven predominantly by strong online sales as physical store sales growth has
been harder to achieve, particularly in CBD locations. Challenges with offshore shipping delays and
increased freight costs continue. Whilst we have a strong start to the new summer season the Company
continues to be cautious in regard to the future impacts of COVID-19 on customer confidence and
spending patterns in the lead up to Christmas. The pre and post-Christmas trading periods are such key
trading periods fo

That's very encouraging indeed especially in the circumstances with so many stores temporarily closed in Auckland and many in Melbourne closed for several months !

Online sales are the "Holy Grail" of retail with much lower costs involved.

[Waltzing]

yep,, here it is.... your carbon points per pair of pants...

"We have also been working with our suppliers partnering on our sustainability journey as we increase transparency in our supply chain. We are pleased about the release of our first full Sustainability Report – Made with Care. As a Group we are committed to act more sustainably to make a positive impact on people and the environment. We acknowledge we are very much on a journey, and the Made with Care report puts voice to our responsibility to bring affordable fashion to our customers ethically and sustainably.

[peat]

yep,, here it is.... your carbon points per pair of pants...

"
does it count the farts you do in those trackies tho ?

[Waltzing]

well i was going to add that the report might not mean anything to most buyers ......

please... tea and scones... gin and tonic after 5... sense and sensibility...

Sweden might not have managed its outbreak but i assure you that information in chit chat must be very accurate...

[LaserEyeKiwi]

TRADING OUTLOOK

Finally, in summary the trading outlook.

We are pleased with trading year to date. However, in a market with constant challenges we remain forever cautious on the trading outlook. One of the most significant issues currently is managing the constraints with inwards freight. To adjust we have had to revert some product deliveries to airfreight. Whilst this is the right decision for our business and customers, there will be some impact on gross margin.


We will keep at the forefront of our strategic direction the importance of digital, with continued investment in technology and expertise. It is important that we maintain the online trajectory and imbed an omni‐channel experience for our customers.


The launch of our Sustainability Report was pivotal for us as a Company, and we remain conscious of the continued work required across the business to deliver to our Sustainability aspirations.


We are particularly pleased with the growth for Glassons in Australia, and this remains a key growth opportunity for the business.

[Davexl]

It is a very quiet meeting. No one seems to be saying anything:confused:.

Any further comments on the meeting See Weed?

There's no online or even phone in for the AGM - absolutely incredible!

After all they managed to do Online Sales...

[macduffy]

Any further comments on the meeting See Weed?

There's no online or even phone in for the AGM - absolutely incredible!

After all they managed to do Online Sales...

Stunned into silence by the IFT news?

[see weed]

Any further comments on the meeting See Weed?

There's no online or even phone in for the AGM - absolutely incredible!

After all they managed to do Online Sales...
No. Maybe a doz. oysters at viaduct basin but not dr Rudies, hear it has been going off with a bang lately.

[Davexl]

No. Maybe a doz. oysters at viaduct basin but not dr Rudies, hear it has been going off with a bang lately.

We sure are living in slightly surreal times...Dr Rudies, China vs Aussi, IFT / Aussi takeovers (Insider Trading?)

[winner69]

What's your full year profit forecast now Beagle

With last 18 weeks sales up 14.5% it implies that the last 10 weeks sales are up ¬18% (first 8 weeks 10.7%)

I reckon sales are up $14m/$15m so far this year - maybe some catch up from covid times but a good sign

That's real positive momentum eh

You still reckon share price will get to $8 some time early last year?

[Beagle]

Thoughts. I am very happy indeed with the sales update which is very impressive in the context of months of store closures in Melbourne and the August shutdown in Auckland.
I'm also pleased they appear to be taking a cautious approach with new Australian store site's in circumstances which i think is very prudent.
There appears to be ongoing very strong online sales growth which is awesome.
Talk of some airfreight costs don't frighten me as I hear $6 a kilo is something like the going rate and summer clothes are not very heavy.

Briscoes currently trading on 16 times last years covid affected earnings and HLG on 14.3 times.
HLG directors appear very enthusiastic about the scope for growth in Australia with the size of the "dressable" market there and previous strong growth and BGR has no such growth opportunity.
If the current growth continues they could sell ~ $330m this year and eps could be circa 60 cents per share and they have barely scratched the surface of the huge potential in Australia with Glassons sales there last year still lower than N.Z. !
Gross yield at 50 cents fully imputed gives a forecast of 10.4% Gross yield and on a forward PE of just on 11. Shareholders are being paid very handsomely indeed to wait for more growth. This is a classic value and GARP stock (Growth at a very reasonable price).
Very happy holder. 14% portfolio position as this is a classic dividend hounds stock and I am really looking forward to next weeks massive dividend and another similar sized one next April !

[winner69]

Thoughts. I am very happy indeed with the sales update which is very impressive in the context of months of store closures in Melbourne and the August shutdown in Auckland.
I'm also pleased they appear to be taking a cautious approach with new Australian store site's in circumstances which i think is very prudent.
There appears to be ongoing very strong online sales growth which is awesome.
Talk of some airfreight costs don't frighten me as I hear $6 a kilo is something like the going rate and summer clothes are not very heavy.

Briscoes currently trading on 16 times last years covid affected earnings and HLG on 14.3 times.
HLG directors appear very enthusiastic about the scope for growth in Australia with the size of the "dressable" market there and previous strong growth and BGR has no such growth opportunity.
If the current growth continues they could sell ~ $330m this year and eps could be circa 60 cents per share and they have barely scratched the surface of the huge potential in Australia with Glassons sales there last year still lower than N.Z. !
Gross yield at 50 cents fully imputed gives a forecast of 10.4% Gross yield and on a forward PE of just on 11. Shareholders are being paid very handsomely indeed to wait for more growth. This is a classic value and GARP stock (Growth at a very reasonable price).
Very happy holder. 14% portfolio position as this is a classic dividend hounds stock and I am really looking forward to next weeks massive dividend and another similar sized one next April !

EPS for F21 of 60 cents is possible - after all they lost about $15m of sales due to lockdowns in last few months of F19 and a 'catch up' of that alone is worth a bit

So if valued in line with Briscoes share price would be $8.40

Maybe not would be - probably will be

[Beagle]

EPS for F21 of 60 cents is possible - after all they lost about $15m of sales due to lockdowns in last few months of F19 and a 'catch up' of that alone is worth a bit

So if valued in line with Briscoes share price would be $8.40

Maybe not would be - probably will be

Yes it was good to read words to the effect that sales at Hallensteins are also looking up, (more heavily affected by Covid last year).
Currency will give a decent strength tailwind in the second half, (and possibly beyond), especially compared to the previous corresponding period !
An overused cliché but I do feel very well positioned. :)

[winner69]

Yes it was good to read words to the effect that sales at Hallensteins are also looking up, (more heavily affected by Covid last year).
Currency will give a decent strength tailwind in the second half, (and possibly beyond), especially compared to the previous corresponding period !

Yep, just imagine if Hallensteins profitability recovered to something like normal -- that would be another $4m/$5m on bottom line

Maybe EPS 60 cents a bit light?

[Beagle]

Yep, just imagine if Hallensteins profitability recovered to something like normal -- that would be another $4m/$5m on bottom line

Maybe EPS 60 cents a bit light?

Maybe but can I suggest let's not get ahead of ourselves. The real beauty of this one is the tremendous long term growth potential of Glasson's in Australia and the fact we're being paid so handsomely with dividends to enjoy the years of growth that lie ahead. Complete lack of analyst coverage at present is a little hard to comprehend especially considering its such an easy company to understand and is potentially knocking on the door of NZX50 inclusion :confused:

What would happen to the share price if say Jarden commenced coverage with a $9 price target and then later in 2021 it got included in the NZX50 :t_up:

[winner69]

Maybe but can I suggest let's not get ahead of ourselves. The real beauty of this one is the tremendous long term growth potential of Glasson's in Australia and the fact we're being paid so handsomely with dividends to enjoy the years of growth that lie ahead. Complete lack of analyst coverage at present is a little hard to comprehend especially considering its such an easy company to understand and is potentially knocking on the door of NZX50 inclusion :confused:

What would happen to the share price if say Jarden commenced coverage with a $9 price target and then later in 2021 it got included in the NZX50 :t_up:

....it would be worth $10 then ...cool, bring it on

And even if Forbar put out a target of $5.50 nobody would believe it

[percy]

My friend who went to the agm told me they are spending a lot of time on leases.
If a store stops performing they want to be gone.
So looking at more flexible leases.
Also flexibility on rents.
With their fantastic online sales they can afford to be more demanding of landlords.
He said the meeting was very upbeat.

[Beagle]

My friend who went to the agm told me they are spending a lot of time on leases.
If a store stops performing they want to be gone.
So looking at more flexible leases.
Also flexibility on rents.
With their fantastic online sales they can afford to be more demanding of landlords.
He said the meeting was very upbeat.

Sounds good, excellent feedback, thank you.
I think from memory young Glasson runs Glassons Australia ? You could hardly ask for a better mentor than Tim Glasson could you ;)

[winner69]

Sounds good, excellent feedback, thank you.
I think from memory young Glasson runs Glassons Australia ? You could hardly ask for a better mentor than Tim Glasson could you ;)

Some 6.7% of votes cast said NO to Glasson being re-elected as a Director ....and 5.4% said NO to that Karen being re-elected. ....hmmm

[Beagle]

Some 6% of votes cast said NO to Glasson being re-elected as a Director

Yeah I noticed that and thought WTF ? Such an icon of the apparel trade !

[winner69]

In the Annual Report they said this about leases -

The group leases retail stores under non-cancellable operating leases expiring within one to eight years. There is a small portion of lease contracts which contain renewal rights. In considering the lease term for these contracts, the Group has determined that rights of renewals are not reasonably certain to be exercised due to the nature and location of the stores and the changing retail environment. It is the Group’s strategy to renegotiate the terms of all leases at their expiry instead of exercising renewal rights. This agile strategy is enabled by having stores relatively small in size and not highly customised, and therefore relatively straight forward to move locations. In addition, with the current retail market uncertainty and the continuing growth of online sales compared to store sales, the Group needs to maintain a degree of flexibility.

[winner69]

Yeah I noticed that and thought WTF ? Such an icon of the apparel trade !

Maybe his halo is starting to lose a bit of its shine

[peat]

Maybe but can I suggest let's not get ahead of ourselves. The real beauty of this one is the tremendous long term growth potential of Glasson's in Australia and the fact we're being paid so handsomely with dividends to enjoy the years of growth that lie ahead. Complete lack of analyst coverage at present is a little hard to comprehend especially considering its such an easy company to understand and is potentially knocking on the door of NZX50 inclusion :confused:

What would happen to the share price if say Jarden commenced coverage with a $9 price target and then later in 2021 it got included in the NZX50 :t_up:


....it would be worth $10 then ...cool, bring it on

And even if Forbar put out a target of $5.50 nobody would believe it

talk it up you guys :t_up:

:p

Whats your explanation for the market not responding more today - IN FACT the price is down 5 cents which is nothing of course, but its still down and not up, even on such good news.

Are we seeing a bit of exhaustion here?

Discl still holding half position from mid 5's.

[winner69]

talk it up you guys :t_up:

:p

Whats your explanation for the market not responding more today - IN FACT the price is down 5 cents which is nothing of course, but its still down and not up, even on such good news.

Are we seeing a bit of exhaustion here?

Discl still holding half position from mid 5's.

Just a bit of profit taking (post dividend)

Back to normal next week with the usual ups and down ..with lots more up days

No worries

[winner69]

Glassons has over 555,0000 followers on Instagram

That’s a lot of followers .....and #glassons has been tagged nearly 70,000 times which is an indication of many punters are happy to show of their gear (and bodies) they got from Glassons

Australians love it ....and Australia is a huge ‘dressable’ market and Glassons just starting out

[peat]

I'm looking at the charts trying to read the tea leaves , but that divi complicates matters tbh. The DB chart has an 'adjust' option, but is makes no difference. So either way maybe you're right its just a little corrective activity after the run up and only breaking 6 would change that picture.

so yeh just holdin half still

I thought This company was take-over proof by virtue of the large holdings of its original investors but Glasson only has 20% is that enough?

[percy]

Sounds good, excellent feedback, thank you.
I think from memory young Glasson runs Glassons Australia ? You could hardly ask for a better mentor than Tim Glasson could you ;)

A number of staff spoke positively at the meeting.
One said although Tim Glasson seemed to be in the background, he was always there egging them on.[Great mentor]
Yes James Glasson is running Australia.Certainly a chip off the old block.

[BlackPeter]

Not quite sure why I drew the chart below ... comparing the HLG SP (in orange/red with KMD (in blue), but it appears it tries to tell a story:

12132

Obviously there is a clear correlation between the two clothing retailers over the years (no surprise) and KMD outperformed HLG prior to the arrival of Covid.

Covid came and KMD needed cash. The CR was clearly diluting, but still ...

Did the markets realize only after Covid that HLG is the much better company and the HLG models look better? Or is KMD currently undervalued compared to HLG? Or is HLG overvalued?

Time will tell.

[Balance]

When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.

[nztx]

Not quite sure why I drew the chart below ... comparing the HLG SP (in orange/red with KMD (in blue), but it appears it tries to tell a story:

12132

Obviously there is a clear correlation between the two clothing retailers over the years (no surprise) and KMD outperformed HLG prior to the arrival of Covid.

Covid came and KMD needed cash. The CR was clearly diluting, but still ...

Did the markets realize only after Covid that HLG is the much better company and the HLG models look better? Or is KMD currently undervalued compared to HLG? Or is HLG overvalued?

Time will tell.


Interesting chart

IMO differences may be in part due to Dividend V No current Div from KMD
Past part imputation with KMD in past V fully imputated divs with HLG
Future Lower DPS with KMD v Higher likely with HLG
Cap Raise - Dilution & Higher Numbers (+ 100%) shares on issue with KMD V No dilution/no share issues
or change in capital with HLG
KMD needed to come knocking on the door for large cash in crisis, while HLG was sound enough to weather the
the Covid storm without need to do so..
Comparable track record of both (including their respective Boards) coming into play

HLG without hesitation V KMD (with much hesitation) has always been preferred option here

Lengthy past involvement in the Rag trade operates possibly playing in that decision

Currently over weight in HLG & Nil KMD here, have no hesitation heading further overboard with HLG
No plans to jump into KMD anytime soon either

but just MTCW .. others may have different thoughts

[JeremyALD]

Maybe but can I suggest let's not get ahead of ourselves. The real beauty of this one is the tremendous long term growth potential of Glasson's in Australia and the fact we're being paid so handsomely with dividends to enjoy the years of growth that lie ahead. Complete lack of analyst coverage at present is a little hard to comprehend especially considering its such an easy company to understand and is potentially knocking on the door of NZX50 inclusion :confused:

What would happen to the share price if say Jarden commenced coverage with a $9 price target and then later in 2021 it got included in the NZX50 :t_up:

I agree about Glassons in Australia. An amazing growth story in an extremely challenging apparel market. Glassons has developed a very well regarded and on trend brand who know who their customers are, and regularly adapt to meet their needs.

Hallensteins needs a revamp, but that looks like it on the way. They are just not as on trend as Glassons and the brand has lost some identity over the years. To me it's just a bit cheap, and lacks the coolness factor that Glassons has.

Overall it's an extremely impressive and well managed company. They don't take unnecessary risks and look after their shareholders money by returning dividends and investing in the right areas (e.g. digital). Happy to be a long term holder 😀

[macduffy]

Hallensteins needs a revamp, but that looks like it on the way. They are just not as on trend as Glassons and the brand has lost some identity over the years. To me it's just a bit cheap, and lacks the coolness factor that Glassons has.

I don't think the Hallensteins brand has ever been "fashionable", more affordable, middle of the road. HLG leave fashion to the girls - at Glassons.

[JeremyALD]

I don't think the Hallensteins brand has ever been "fashionable", more affordable, middle of the road. HLG leave fashion to the girls - at Glassons.

Yes that approach had its time in the sun, but I think Mens fashion has changed over the last few years.

Many people are looking for quality and trendier clothing. The market is also more competitive with Farmers markedly improving their range over the last two years, offered at a very similar price point to Hallensteins. Then you have H&M and Zara in a similar mid market position, and both considered 'hip'. Connor is also opening new stores in NZ at competitive pricing. Connor is much more on-trend than Hallensteins.

So I think the Mens market has changed significantly. Previously Hallensteins used to be one of the only mid market Mens brands, but now there are a lot more options.

[winner69]

Thoughts. I am very happy indeed with the sales update which is very impressive in the context of months of store closures in Melbourne and the August shutdown in Auckland.
I'm also pleased they appear to be taking a cautious approach with new Australian store site's in circumstances which i think is very prudent.
There appears to be ongoing very strong online sales growth which is awesome.
Talk of some airfreight costs don't frighten me as I hear $6 a kilo is something like the going rate and summer clothes are not very heavy.

Briscoes currently trading on 16 times last years covid affected earnings and HLG on 14.3 times.
HLG directors appear very enthusiastic about the scope for growth in Australia with the size of the "dressable" market there and previous strong growth and BGR has no such growth opportunity.
If the current growth continues they could sell ~ $330m this year and eps could be circa 60 cents per share and they have barely scratched the surface of the huge potential in Australia with Glassons sales there last year still lower than N.Z. !
Gross yield at 50 cents fully imputed gives a forecast of 10.4% Gross yield and on a forward PE of just on 11. Shareholders are being paid very handsomely indeed to wait for more growth. This is a classic value and GARP stock (Growth at a very reasonable price).
Very happy holder. 14% portfolio position as this is a classic dividend hounds stock and I am really looking forward to next weeks massive dividend and another similar sized one next April !

Did some homework last night

I reckon your $330m sales projection is a bit too high

Bearing in mind that the strong start to the year (+14.5%) has a lot of catch up of lost sales from covid times I reckon full year sales will be more like $315m/$320m if things go right (esp over Christmas)

Things will be clearer in February eh

[Beagle]

Did some homework last night

I reckon your $330m sales projection is a bit too high

Bearing in mind that the strong start to the year (+14.5%) has a lot of catch up of lost sales from covid times I reckon full year sales will be more like $315m/$320m if things go right (esp over Christmas)

Things will be clearer in February eh

Time will tell for sure but I am very encouraged, (emboldened to go up to 15% portfolio allocation on any untoward weakness), with the 14%+ sales increase in the context of the size of this challenge:-
Following the latest COVID-19 lockdown in Auckland, thirteen Hallenstein Brothers stores and twelve
Glassons stores were closed during August 2020 and the eleven Glassons stores in Victoria Australia were
also closed from July 2020 to November 2020 in line with Victorian State Government guidelines.

[winner69]

I note Briscoe's PE has crept up to 17

HLG still around 14

WHS PE still over 20 and MHJ in the 30's

NZX numbers

[Beagle]

HLG a classic dividend hounds, value and GARP (growth at a reasonable price) stock. Surely that's a winning trifecta in the long run ;)

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Now that Vaccines being rolled out around the world, the window for future lockdowns that close retail operations in NZ & AUS is dwindling smaller by the day. We are now in busiest 3 weeks of retail spending of the year, and every day we get through that doesn't lead to a lockdown increases the likelihood for a very good half year result.

In regards to dividends being reinvested in Hallensteins, has this historically lead to a share price bump on payout date?

[nztx]

Now that Vaccines being rolled out around the world, the window for future lockdowns that close retail operations in NZ & AUS is dwindling smaller by the day. We are now in busiest 3 weeks of retail spending of the year, and every day we get through that doesn't lead to a lockdown increases the likelihood for a very good half year result.

In regards to dividends being reinvested in Hallensteins, has this historically lead to a share price bump on payout date?

it seems that way .. but is it oversold currently in relation to rest of the market ?

A nice large pre Christmas bonus always goes down well - thanks HLG

A 2 for 1 share split could be interesting if HLG were to consider it .. ;)

That would still mean slightly less that 120 mil shares if they did & further room to rise into the clouds again ..

[Waltzing]

its was a rocket... engines have cut off as it went into space ...:eek2: ... again.... someone hit the booster start button...

official AUS stats always increase in december for retail.

[macduffy]

its was a rocket... engines have cut off as it went into space ...:eek2: ... again.... someone hit the booster start button...

official AUS stats always increase in december for retail.

Don't they everywhere? It is the month of Christmas after all!

[winner69]

Stats NZ Card Spend for November

Apparel up 4.3% on last year - annual spend still 10% below a year ago

Punters splurging big time post lock down but not that excited about clothes.

Much the same in OZ

[winner69]

Much the same market conditions in Australia (actual retai and not card spend)

[winner69]

Even though it appears as if punters are not yet into buying clothes big time HLG look like they doing reasonably well and probably taking share from others

[winner69]

Got to be careful how you name your fashions

Do Glassons sell $300 dresses for that summer party?

But I hope they are culturally aware ...although a bit of free advertising isn’t all that bad.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2020/12/colonial-violence-in-floral-polyester-new-zealand-designer-trelise-cooper-apologises-after-backlash-for-trail-of-tiers-dress.html

[Beagle]

Even though it appears as if punters are not yet into buying clothes big time HLG look like they doing very well and probably taking share from others

Fixed that for you :)

[winner69]

Fixed that for you :)

No don’t get carried away

[Waltzing]

thank you.....:t_up: Mr B.

[Beagle]

No don’t get carried away
Okay...I'll play..., lets forget about the fact that about a dozen stores in Melbourne were shuttered for months on end and forget about the two dozen on so in Auckland in August. Quite aside from that, lets have a look at the sales growth updates for the last 10 years
2020 +14.51%
2019 +7.1%
2018 +4.8%
2017 +15.0% (Very strong growth but without the handicap of dozens of stores being closed) Interestingly in that full financial year net profit after tax was up a whopping 58.4% !...not even a remote possibility of that happening again, (which would give 73.75 cps) or maybe there is a chance it could be that high ;)
2016 +10.0%
2015 +3.1%
2014 +2.0%
2013 - 7.0%
2012 +7.0%
2011 +9.0%

Average growth rate in the most recent 5 years = 10.3% and the average growth rate before that was just 2.8%. Hmmm...surely I am not the only one that finds that quite interesting...

Looking at that average sales growth of 10.3% per annum for the last 5 years, that's deeply impressive...what if that average growth rate continued for the next 5 years :D


thank you.....:t_up: Mr B.
You're welcome mate.

[DazRaz]

Was at the AGM. The interesting thing is that they have been selling worldwide online.

The concerning thing is the higher costs due to the increased use and cost of air freight. 2021 will have have higher costs.

[Beagle]

Thanks Dazraz. I understand the going rate is somewhere around $6 a kilo for airfreight. I don't think these swimsuits weigh much :D
https://www.glassons.com/clothing/swimwear?s=SORT_RELEVANCE

[Balance]

I note Briscoe's PE has crept up to 17

HLG still around 14

WHS PE still over 20 and MHJ in the 30's

NZX numbers

Someone sold at 7.9% dividend yield this morning - $6.35.

There is no law against extreme generosity but that must be getting close to being a criminal act?

[Beagle]

Someone sold at 7.9% dividend yield this morning - $6.35.

There is no law against extreme generosity but that must be getting close to being a criminal act?

LOL As you know mate I am forecasting 50 cps fully imputed for FY21 (50 / 0.72) = 69.444 cps gross. An 11% gross yield equates to $6.31. I was praying for Santa to arrive early with my very modest top up order at $6.30. His sleigh didn't quite reach me. Never mind...

[Balance]

LOL As you know mate I am forecasting 50 cps fully imputed for FY21 (50 / 0.72) = 69.444 cps gross. An 11% gross yield equates to $6.31. I was praying for Santa to arrive early with my very modest top up order at $6.30. His sleigh didn't quite reach me. Never mind...

I was there at $6.15 when the $6.35 happened.

I thought of putting some to ‘sell’ at $6.50 to push the sellers along. Then thought better of it - that’s now considered market manipulation!

Or gross stupidity!

[Beagle]

I was there at $6.15 when the $6.35 happened.

I thought of putting some to ‘sell’ at $6.50 to push the sellers along. Then thought better of it - that’s now considered market manipulation!

Or gross stupidity!

Maybe both but you could argue you're helping price discovery after the annual meeting and helping boost liquidity in the shares, doing us all a favor because we need that extra liqudity to help us along for NZX50 inclusion, soon ;) Furrbar don't reckon it will be announced tomorrow and that's okay, it will happen sometime in 2021 I reckon but maybe its the same analyst that reckons HGH's FY21 profit is only going to be $65m ?....which is looking more absurd by the day.

Maybe tomorrow is BINGO day :D

[Balance]

Furrbar don't reckon it will be announced tomorrow and that's okay, it will happen sometime in 2021 I reckon but maybe its the same analyst that reckons HGH's FY21 profit is only going to be $65m ?....which is looking more absurd by the day.

Maybe tomorrow is BINGO day :D

$8 by Christmas if inclusion in NZX50.

[Beagle]

$8 by Christmas if inclusion in NZX50.

Santa really would arrive then ;) More likely in 2021 though.

[nztx]

Santa really would arrive then ;) More likely in 2021 though.


must come more than twice a year with HLG you reckon ? ;)

probably on the money there too ;)

[JSwan]

Thanks Dazraz. I understand the going rate is somewhere around $6 a kilo for airfreight. I don't think these swimsuits weigh much :D
https://www.glassons.com/clothing/swimwear?s=SORT_RELEVANCE

I was not expecting to see what I saw after clicking that link :D

[JSwan]

I was there at $6.15 when the $6.35 happened.

I thought of putting some to ‘sell’ at $6.50 to push the sellers along. Then thought better of it - that’s now considered market manipulation!

Or gross stupidity!

I think I saw that $6.15 order this morning for 10,000 shares

[jimdog31]

LOL As you know mate I am forecasting 50 cps fully imputed for FY21 (50 / 0.72) = 69.444 cps gross. An 11% gross yield equates to $6.31. I was praying for Santa to arrive early with my very modest top up order at $6.30. His sleigh didn't quite reach me. Never mind...

I must have made santas nice list this year 😀 $6.35 u beauty!

[winner69]

I was not expecting to see what I saw after clicking that link :D

Hey JSwan - He’s a worry that beagle eh

No doubt he calls looking at what they sell as fundamental analysis.;)

[winner69]

This dude on Twitter want some gear

————————————————————————————————————-
@haydngreen
To the well-dressed men of Wellington: If you were buying nice (corporate-ish but not dull) menswear, where would you go?

Physical stores in Wellington, no joke answers please, and I already have Mandatory on the list.

———————————————————————————————————

Responses he got were to go to -

Dress Mart
Barkers
Working Style
Vance Vivians
3 Wise Men
Johnny Big
Carry’s
Man to Man
David Jones
Rod and Gunn
Holy Smoke
Edit

No mention of Hallensteins

Maybe Haydn is not Hallensteins target market

But then again I don’t look anything like the young dude below but buy his tee shirt (and jeans to go with them) ...I doubt I’m Hallensteins target market - maybe got it all their marketing wrong

[Beagle]

I must have made santas nice list this year �� $6.35 u beauty!

Congrats you deserve it mate...I've been a naughty dog lately so he passed me by.


Hey JSwan - He’s a worry that beagle eh

No doubt he calls looking at what they sell as fundamental analysis.;)
Someone has to do the "hard yards" and make sure their products are on trend ;)

[Balance]

Thanks Dazraz. I understand the going rate is somewhere around $6 a kilo for airfreight. I don't think these swimsuits weigh much :D
https://www.glassons.com/clothing/swimwear?s=SORT_RELEVANCE

Are you including the weight of the models? 🤪

[winner69]

Okay...I'll play...,...


Average growth rate in the most recent 5 years = 10.3% and the average growth rate before that was just 2.8%.

.

Those 5 year growth rates you talk about came about from the Glassons relaunch, store upgrades and new stores (mainly Australia) and the opening of 3 Hallensteins stores in Australia in 2017 and 2018.

2018 was the bumper year with group sales up 16% (Glassons AU +57% and even Hallensteins up 6% because of new storesl

One should restate your sales growth statement as - F18 sales growth was 16% - the 3 years prior average annual growth was 4.8% and the 2 years since has been 4% (and that's adding in sales lost because of lockdown). I am not the only one that finds that quite interesting..

Never mind - should forget the past because this years going to be a boomer

[winner69]

Meant to add that Glassons resurgence and growth in Australia in 2017/2018 (a step change) was attributed to the efforts of Di Humphries. She achieved her mandate of making 'transformational change' and moved on. Took Glassons Au sales from $40m to $80m as well as growing NZ sales.

Interesting since she has left and the much vaunted James has taken over Glassons AU growth has dramatically slowed.....but at least they are still growing

[Balance]

Was at shopping mall last night to get a couple of things.

Observations :

- Carpark full to the brink but rather good there was no aggro. Expecting this to get chaotic over the weekend.

- obviously a lot of shopping taking place. Trolleys full of goodies.

- Not all retailers busy. K-mart & Warehouse were thronging with customers.

- Pertinent to HLG, very pleased to see Glassons super busy with well stacked shelves & great displays. Staff busy serving customers as well as continuously tidying and stocking shelves. Very impressed at how well the store is run.

- Hallenstein not as busy but steady.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/christmas-shoppers-expected-to-give-retailers-the-best-present-of-all/CSY3JATFEUCRZFSGFJNTGDLOEQ/

Paywalled

Retailers expecting bumper Christmas shopping season and right through to new year

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/out-of-stock-five-products-that-could-be-hard-to-come-by-this-christmas/WN4P4JEQIPZI57IVAZM5MG4HR4/

Paywalled

Stocks like bicycles, new high end cars, trampoline, home appliances and interesting enough, long sleeves business & casual shirts in short supply.

[Beagle]

If recent months are any guide, retailers are in line for the best Christmas present of all: record sales.

Thanks mate, all signs look positive.

[Getty]

Was at shopping mall last night to get a couple of things.

Observations :

- Carpark full to the brink but rather good there was no aggro. Expecting this to get chaotic over the weekend.

- obviously a lot of shopping taking place. Trolleys full of goodies.

- Not all retailers busy. K-mart & Warehouse were thronging with customers.

- Pertinent to HLG, very pleased to see Glassons super busy with well stacked shelves & great displays. Staff busy serving customers as well as continuously tidying and stocking shelves. Very impressed at how well the store is run.

- Hallenstein not as busy but steady.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/christmas-shoppers-expected-to-give-retailers-the-best-present-of-all/CSY3JATFEUCRZFSGFJNTGDLOEQ/

Paywalled

Retailers expecting bumper Christmas shopping season and right through to new year

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/out-of-stock-five-products-that-could-be-hard-to-come-by-this-christmas/WN4P4JEQIPZI57IVAZM5MG4HR4/

Paywalled

Stocks like bicycles, new high end cars, trampoline, home appliances and interesting enough, long sleeves business & casual shirts in short supply.

Did your observations include Michael Hill?

[nztx]

Did your observations include Michael Hill?

you mean the one who keeps deferring their last March 2020 dividend out further into the future ?

In that case, many wouldn't blame one for not noticing them either, until they coughed up .. ;)

[sb9]

In the meantime, NZD/USD cross rate has pushed through 71c mark....bodes well for these guys but not so good for exporters.

[Beagle]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/NZXO/364898/337260.pdf

As expected. I think inclusion in the NZX50 is something to look forward to in due course, possibly sometime in 2021.

"Good things take time"

[winner69]

Aussie back spending big time say Westpac from their card spend tracking.

James will be making sure Glassons get more than their fair share of enthusiastic shoppers spending with compelling offers

[Robomo]

Thanks Dazraz. I understand the going rate is somewhere around $6 a kilo for airfreight. I don't think these swimsuits weigh much :D
https://www.glassons.com/clothing/swimwear?s=SORT_RELEVANCE

Thanks for the link. Research into company activities is very important :p

[Getty]

They can not be accused of dressing up their reports...

[winner69]

Someone has to do the "hard yards" and make sure their products are on trend ;)

Are they trendy though .... and selling?

You'll have to look at the Clearance Sale in a few weeks to see if they have had to quite 'excess' stock ....even though 'excess' doesn't seem to apply in this segment

[Greekwatchdog]

For Bars Latest view on NZX 50 inclusion
A Final Tidy Up, Before the Family Arrives for Xmas


S&P DJI have confirmed that no constituent changes will be made to the benchmark indices at the December 2020 quarterly
index review. There are a number of changes to indexed shares and Float Adjustment Weighting Factors (AWF). Changes are
effective close of market, Friday 18 December 2020.
No constituent changes
As expected, the S&P/NZX index review for December 2020 contained no constituent changes for the benchmark indices. We do not
foresee any constituent changes over the near to medium term. Hallenstein Glasson (HLG) remains the largest non-member currently
eligible for inclusion, should a current member drop out.
Figure 1. December 2020 Review: Confirmed changes
Index Enter Exit Expected Weight (rank)
S&P/NZX 10 no changes
S&P/NZX 20 no changes
S&P/NZX 50 no changes
S&P/NZX 50 Portfolio no changes
Source: Forsyth Barr analysis, S&P DJI
A catch-up for share placements
As with each quarterly review, indexed shares, Investible Weighting Factors ( IWF's) and AWF's are also updated. There were a
number of share placements during the quarter (including SKO, SML, SPG & VHP) that did not qualify for accelerated implementation,
which will now be implemented. The companies with the largest re-weightings are presented in Figure 2.
Figure 2. December 2020 Review: Major re-weighting changes expected
Index Current Weight Expected Weight Total Change
S&P/NZX 50 Index
SPG 0.61% 0.74% +0.14%
VHP 0.78% 0.87% +0.10%
S&P/NZX 50 Portfolio Index
ATM 3.45% 5.03% +1.59%
SPK 4.15% 4.98% +0.83%
FPH 4.36% 5.17% +0.81%
IFT 5.33% 4.98% -0.35%
MFT 5.36% 4.99% -0.37%
CEN 5.57% 4.89% -0.67%
MEL 5.95% 4.68% -1.27%
S&P/NZX All Real Estate Index
SPG 6.90% 8.25% +1.35%
VHP 8.81% 9.70% +0.89%
KPG 16.10% 15.64% -0.46%
PCT 16.11% 15.66% -0.46%
GMT 22.26% 21.63% -0.63%

[see weed]

HLG a classic dividend hounds, value and GARP (growth at a reasonable price) stock. Surely that's a winning trifecta in the long run ;)
Looking at div history.....27/8/20= 15c....Late interim div because of Covid, tomorrow 15/12/20= 24c final div.... and in about 15 weeks from now, maybe another 15c interim div. early April, or 11 weeks after Christmas and new year holiday. That is a lot of divs over 8 months. Am looking forward to tomorrows Christmas div.:cool:

[nztx]

Looking at div history.....27/8/20= 15c....Late interim div because of Covid, tomorrow 15/12/20= 24c final div.... and in about 15 weeks from now, maybe another 15c interim div. early April, or 11 weeks after Christmas and new year holiday. That is a lot of divs over 8 months. Am looking forward to tomorrows Christmas div.:cool:


April in recent past years is usually a 20.0 cps fully imputed job with HLG

I have difficulty seeing any less being paid in the current trading environment, but who knows I could be wrong .. ;)

[Beagle]

They had a cash mountain of around $50m as at balance date which I expect to be very similar at the conclusion of the current half year and equates to a whopping 83 cps. Based on likely earnings in the current period and their very robust cash position I am forecasting a fully imputed April dividend of around 24-25 cps.

[Balance]

For Bars Latest view on NZX 50 inclusion
A Final Tidy Up, Before the Family Arrives for Xmas


S&P DJI have confirmed that no constituent changes will be made to the benchmark indices at the December 2020 quarterly
index review. There are a number of changes to indexed shares and Float Adjustment Weighting Factors (AWF). Changes are
effective close of market, Friday 18 December 2020.
No constituent changes
As expected, the S&P/NZX index review for December 2020 contained no constituent changes for the benchmark indices. We do not
foresee any constituent changes over the near to medium term. Hallenstein Glasson (HLG) remains the largest non-member currently
eligible for inclusion, should a current member drop out.


An Infratil takeover will trigger inclusion for HLG.

Meanwhile, let's enjoy the dividends and a retailing story which keeps getting better.

[Beagle]

An Infratil takeover will trigger inclusion for HLG.

Meanwhile, let's enjoy the dividends and a retailing story which keeps getting better.

Yeap, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Quite apart from that it looks like a great year shaping up so when the market gets shocked by HLG's earnings capabilities we should see further share price appreciation and I think there's an excellent chance HLG gets into the NZX50 in 2021 on its own merits. Aside from all that to the best of my knowledge this has the highest forecast 2021 yield of any share on the NZX so we're being paid very handsomely indeed while we wait for even better things ahead.

Definitely one of my top five picks for 2021.

[winner69]

Should be a decent boost to share price next few weeks as many reinvest their divies at the current depressed price

Got to get in before their earnings capabilities become more well known

They say compounding (reinvesting) is the 8th wonder of thevworld

[sb9]

Am looking forward to tomorrows Christmas div.:cool:

It arrived in the bank a/c :t_up:

[Balance]

It arrived in the bank a/c :t_up:

Indeed it has!

[Beagle]

My thanks to the HLG team. I really appreciate the way the Directors and Management have worked very hard to prudently and safely navigate through the many challenges 2020 has presented and am looking forward to the future with considerable optimism.

[winner69]

DCM in Wellington forever grateful for the donation of my divie ....heaps more than I might have given normally but it is for a very good cause in helping the homeless find a home and a job so they can live a more meaningful life in the community.

No doubt the Nelson Food Bank are also grateful for the donation that I believe is coming their way as well.

[Beagle]

For Bars Latest view on NZX 50 inclusion
A Final Tidy Up, Before the Family Arrives for Xmas


S&P DJI have confirmed that no constituent changes will be made to the benchmark indices at the December 2020 quarterly
index review. There are a number of changes to indexed shares and Float Adjustment Weighting Factors (AWF). Changes are
effective close of market, Friday 18 December 2020.
No constituent changes
As expected, the S&P/NZX index review for December 2020 contained no constituent changes for the benchmark indices. We do not
foresee any constituent changes over the near to medium term. Hallenstein Glasson (HLG) remains the largest non-member currently
eligible for inclusion, should a current member drop out.
Figure 1. December 2020 Review: Confirmed changes
Index Enter Exit Expected Weight (rank)
S&P/NZX 10 no changes
S&P/NZX 20 no changes
S&P/NZX 50 no changes
S&P/NZX 50 Portfolio no changes
Source: Forsyth Barr analysis, S&P DJI
A catch-up for share placements
As with each quarterly review, indexed shares, Investible Weighting Factors ( IWF's) and AWF's are also updated. There were a
number of share placements during the quarter (including SKO, SML, SPG & VHP) that did not qualify for accelerated implementation,
which will now be implemented. The companies with the largest re-weightings are presented in Figure 2.
Figure 2. December 2020 Review: Major re-weighting changes expected
Index Current Weight Expected Weight Total Change
S&P/NZX 50 Index
SPG 0.61% 0.74% +0.14%
VHP 0.78% 0.87% +0.10%
S&P/NZX 50 Portfolio Index
ATM 3.45% 5.03% +1.59%
SPK 4.15% 4.98% +0.83%
FPH 4.36% 5.17% +0.81%
IFT 5.33% 4.98% -0.35%
MFT 5.36% 4.99% -0.37%
CEN 5.57% 4.89% -0.67%
MEL 5.95% 4.68% -1.27%
S&P/NZX All Real Estate Index
SPG 6.90% 8.25% +1.35%
VHP 8.81% 9.70% +0.89%
KPG 16.10% 15.64% -0.46%
PCT 16.11% 15.66% -0.46%
GMT 22.26% 21.63% -0.63%

You're a good dog. Thank you for sharing.

[dreamcatcher]

DCM in Wellington forever grateful for the donation of my divie ....heaps more than I might have given normally but it is for a very good cause in helping the homeless find a home and a job so they can live a more meaningful life in the community.

No doubt the Nelson Food Bank are also grateful for the donation that I believe is coming their way as well.

Well done w69 you are clearly a very generous individual ..........hope there's enough left for a few scallops and chips :)

[Balance]

DCM in Wellington forever grateful for the donation of my divie ....heaps more than I might have given normally but it is for a very good cause in helping the homeless find a home and a job so they can live a more meaningful life in the community.

No doubt the Nelson Food Bank are also grateful for the donation that I believe is coming their way as well.

Good on you W69 for putting your dividend to where your principles are.

Respect.

[Beagle]

Briscoes now on 18 times last years Covid affected earnings. A similar multiple would have HLG at $8.42. One has outstanding growth prospects in Australia the other does not. Hmmm

[fastbike]

DCM in Wellington forever grateful for the donation of my divie ....heaps more than I might have given normally but it is for a very good cause in helping the homeless find a home and a job so they can live a more meaningful life in the community.

No doubt the Nelson Food Bank are also grateful for the donation that I believe is coming their way as well.

Nice, mine went to Chch City Mission, they're doing great work.

[iceman]

DCM in Wellington forever grateful for the donation of my divie ....heaps more than I might have given normally but it is for a very good cause in helping the homeless find a home and a job so they can live a more meaningful life in the community.

No doubt the Nelson Food Bank are also grateful for the donation that I believe is coming their way as well.

I’m sure they indeed are with the much higher than normal pre Christmas sum they get from my family this year. I know they’ll put it to good use. Like Beagle, I thank management and board for navigating extremely competently through a very difficult year.

[bull....]

summerset paying back the wage subsidy hlg , take note it might come back and bite you if you end up being the last nzx one not doing so.

[dln]

They ARE paying it back - just directly to me! ;)

[Balance]

They ARE paying it back - just directly to me! ;)

Indeed.

I am going to enjoy the carton of wine (Reserve Black Label) just delivered by the friendly courier man - to be accompanied by the crayfish & grade A5 beautifully marbled grass fed wagyu steak this weekend, courtesy of the wage subsidy.

Then there’s the bottles of DM champagne for Christmas Day. Thanks Grant Robertson & Cynical Cindy.

[arekaywhy]

I'm going to enjoy my job, which would have disappeared otherwise...

[Playa]

Yeap, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Quite apart from that it looks like a great year shaping up so when the market gets shocked by HLG's earnings capabilities we should see further share price appreciation and I think there's an excellent chance HLG gets into the NZX50 in 2021 on its own merits. Aside from all that to the best of my knowledge this has the highest forecast 2021 yield of any share on the NZX so we're being paid very handsomely indeed while we wait for even better things ahead.

Definitely one of my top five picks for 2021.
Which ones would be your other 4?and if you had to put all the eggs in one basket and choose 1,which one would that be?:)

[bull....]

obviously you 2 only care about stuffing your faces with crayfish and washing it down with wine , but not about brand damage. short term thinking at its best

it is no wonder a great company like briscoes is up 22% since announcing the payback of the wage subsidy and hlg is up 1% after not doing the same

[Balance]

obviously you 2 only care about stuffing your faces with crayfish and washing it down with wine , but not about brand damage. short term thinking at its best

it is no wonder a great company like briscoes is up 22% since announcing the payback of the wage subsidy and hlg is up 1% after not doing the same

2021 will see HLG at $10 - I can wait.

The champagne & 60 days aged wagyu beef cannot!

BTW, you should learn how to enjoy good quality wine and food. Stuffing your face with them is how peasants eat - not connoisseurs of fine wine & cuisine.

[sunnysleeper11]

2021 will see HLG at $10 - I can wait.

The champagne & 60 days aged wagyu beef cannot!

BTW, you should learn how to enjoy good quality wine and food. Stuffing your face with them is how peasants eat - not connoisseurs of fine wine & cuisine.

If it's been aged for 60 days, I'm pretty sure you could wait a couple more

[Getty]

2021 will see HLG at $10 - I can wait.

The champagne & 60 days aged wagyu beef cannot!

BTW, you should learn how to enjoy good quality wine and food. Stuffing your face with them is how peasants eat - not connoisseurs of fine wine & cuisine.

Please tone it down a bit Balance.
Say you are only having a small roll of ham & chicken, washed down with lemonade.

If Sue Bradford & ilk get to hear you, this thread will be spammed out by that mob.

That Auckland City councillor, Efeso Collins, was on TV the other day, saying without any guilt or shame, that the rich should be taxed more, to give it to "us", because we spend it, we dont save it...

The fact that you may have worked hard for your money, and only had the same opportunities they have doesnt enter their heads.

[RupertBear]

DCM in Wellington forever grateful for the donation of my divie ....heaps more than I might have given normally but it is for a very good cause in helping the homeless find a home and a job so they can live a more meaningful life in the community.

No doubt the Nelson Food Bank are also grateful for the donation that I believe is coming their way as well.

Thats awesome Winner! You’re a legend :)

[arekaywhy]

Please tone it down a bit Balance.
Say you are only having a small roll of ham & chicken, washed down with lemonade.

If Sue Bradford & ilk get to hear you, this thread will be spammed out by that mob.

That Auckland City councillor, Efeso Collins, was on TV the other day, saying without any guilt or shame, that the rich should be taxed more, to give it to "us", because we spend it, we dont save it...

The fact that you may have worked hard for your money, and only had the same opportunities they have doesnt enter their heads.


the grasshoppers are breeding

[peat]

Which ones would be your other 4?and if you had to put all the eggs in one basket and choose 1,which one would that be?:)

dont do that dude .... Beagle is good but anyone can get something wrong, or a situation can develop around a particular company. Maverick may call it diWorseification but the text book says that diversification is the only true free lunch.....

[Jantar]

obviously you 2 only care about stuffing your faces with crayfish and washing it down with wine , but not about brand damage. short term thinking at its best

it is no wonder a great company like briscoes is up 22% since announcing the payback of the wage subsidy and hlg is up 1% after not doing the same I think there may be something wrong with the way you calculate percentages. Briscoes announced they would pay back their share of the subsidy on 16th Oct. On that date they were trading at $4.00 so up around 25%. On the same day HLG were trading at $6.00, now $6.60 after a $0.24 dividend. So HLG are up by 14%. That is a touch more than the 1% you claim.

I still don't see why you would prefer that should have laid staff off rather than pay the subsidy to their staff and kept them employed.

[Beagle]

Which ones would be your other 4?and if you had to put all the eggs in one basket and choose 1,which one would that be?:)

These 5 are my highest conviction positions and I feel well positioned with them for ongoing market outperformance in 2021.
HLG, HGH, OCA and these two won't fit the stock picking competition criteria BRMWF (Barramundi warrants exercisable on 31/10/21) and PAZ (Unlisted market).

Regarding your second question...I will simply restate my belief that I believe it is prudent to have checks and balances around one's own ability to predict the future as nobody can say with absolute certainty what the future may bring. Ecclesiastes 11:2 Invest in seven ventures, yes, in eight; you do not know what disaster may come upon the land.

[bull....]

I think there may be something wrong with the way you calculate percentages. Briscoes announced they would pay back their share of the subsidy on 16th Oct. On that date they were trading at $4.00 so up around 25%. On the same day HLG were trading at $6.00, now $6.60 after a $0.24 dividend. So HLG are up by 14%. That is a touch more than the 1% you claim.

I still don't see why you would prefer that should have laid staff off rather than pay the subsidy to their staff and kept them employed.

i just took a date a mth ago for those figures so it be all different depending on the date you start with . the point was you could make a statement to say the differing approaches to the subsidy had an effect on the stock performance of the 2 companies if you were looking for reasons of why one stock is doing better than the other.

[Balance]

i just took a date a mth ago for those figures so it be all different depending on the date you start with . the point was you could make a statement to say the differing approaches to the subsidy had an effect on the stock performance of the 2 companies if you were looking for reasons of why one stock is doing better than the other.

Off to order the crayfish - delivered live on Saturday morning.

[Beagle]

Off to order the crayfish - delivered live on Saturday morning.

You have my upmost respect for upholding your right to do whatsoever you like with your dividend and pushing back against the political correctness of this wage subsidy repayment issue.

As far as I am concerned HLG have stated their position and that's the end of the matter. I am not going to get drawn into repetitive circular arguments as its already been very fiercely debated on here at great length and I feel very strongly it is time to move on and its better for people to simply agree to disagree.

In terms of use of the dividend, I strongly believe that's nobody's business but the person receiving it and they are fully entitled to it as their reward for their risk capital employed.
That said I'd wager there's many people on here that are deeply involved in Church, charitable and philanthropic activities but don't feel its right or appropriate that they trumpet their efforts on here or anywhere else for that matter.

One such lovely lady it has been my real honor and inspiration to meet in recent weeks at my Mum's retirement village is a lady about 80 who is as fit as a fiddle, a retired nurse who spends all her days in voluntary work helping and supporting others in the village and has been doing for many, many years. Her tireless help, knowledge, care and support has been extremely valuable to us as we have struggled to get my Mum from her independent living unit into first class full time hospital level care. I honestly don't know how we would have coped without her. Christianity with its sleeves rolled up ! In my entire life I have never seen a finer example of selfless service to others. She has supported countless families in the village through the last stages of life's journey and I think of Elizabeth as our heaven sent Angel in our time of need. My Mum only has weeks to live but she is 91, in no pain, has a strong faith in God and I am at peace with what is coming and so is she.

Sorry for the thread diversion folks.

[850man]

summerset paying back the wage subsidy hlg , take note it might come back and bite you if you end up being the last nzx one not doing so. SUM are quite different, they still had people working during lockdown. HLG had stores closed and staff not working during lockdown.

[777]

SUM are quite different, they still had people working during lockdown. HLG had stores closed and staff not working during lockdown.

Finally some logic.

[winner69]

SUM are quite different, they still had people working during lockdown. HLG had stores closed and staff not working during lockdown.

....but HLG had a mountain of cash (at least $50m) in the bank to keep paying people if they so desired

[nztx]

Isn't there a Special Thread elsewhere especially for the ins & outs & debate on Covid-19 Wage Subsidies ? ;)

[nztx]

but where was whatever was in the bank of any Company a part of the C-19 criteria on being eligible for first etc Subsidies ? ;)

Or are we seeing more feel good moral fluffies being dragged up again following a few Academics (who obviously need reading
lessons upskilling & a bit in way of real experience in the business world) continuing their little mindless moral tirades ? ;)

Who would have thought some of the Academic quotient out there could find themselves with so little to do - with the lack of International Student numbers coming in ? ;)

[winner69]

but where was whatever was in the bank of any Company a part of the C-19 criteria on being eligible for first etc Subsidies ? ;)

Or are we seeing more feel good moral fluffies being dragged up again following a few Academics (who obviously need reading
lessons upskilling & a bit in way of real experience in the business world) continuing their little mindless moral tirades ? ;)

Beside the decline revenue the conditions for eligibility also stated -

Your business must have taken active steps to mitigate the financial impact of COVID-19.

This could include:

drawing from your cash reserves (as appropriate)
activating your business continuity plan
Etc
Etc

[Beagle]

but where was whatever was in the bank of any Company a part of the C-19 criteria on being eligible for first etc Subsidies ? ;)

Or are we seeing more feel good moral fluffies being dragged up again following a few Academics (who obviously need reading
lessons upskilling) continuing their little mindless moral tirades ? ;)

I'm mates with a senior law lecturer at Auckland Law School. Known him for decades since our University days when he did a conjoint Commerce and Law Degree.
Heck of a nice guy but a classic absent minded professor and about as disconnected with the reality of the real world of running a business as almost anyone I know.
Just because some Roman sandal wearing professor in academia has an opinion on something, it means diddly squat in the real commercial world.

For anyone who wants to still endlessly engage in this circular and repetitive argument even further after it has already been fiercely debated at enormous length, fill ya boots here https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11929-Should-companies-who-were-perfectly-entitled-to-claim-the-wage-subsidy-pay-it-back

I suggest a far more pertinent debate we should be having as a society centers around the ongoing systemic payments every single year in good times and bad of billions of dollars in annual superannuation benefits paid to multi millionaire retirees who don't need it ! Are they paying it back or not taking it in the first place ?

[nztx]

Beside the decline revenue the conditions for eligibility also stated -

Your business must have taken active steps to mitigate the financial impact of COVID-19.

This could include:

drawing from your cash reserves (as appropriate)
activating your business continuity plan
Etc
Etc


Are you really sure that was Part of Eligibility for March 2020 C-19 Wages Subsidy or haven't taken time to check ? ;)

[nztx]

Was the Subsidy really intended to be applied as follows ? -:

1. Your Company has surplus cash & has been really well run = Stiff Cheese

2. Your Company is on the bones of it's A*se & likely to fall over any day = Congrats - you qualify

;)

[Beagle]

but where was whatever was in the bank of any Company a part of the C-19 criteria on being eligible for first etc Subsidies ? ;)

Or are we seeing more feel good moral fluffies being dragged up again following a few Academics (who obviously need reading
lessons upskilling & a bit in way of real experience in the business world) continuing their little mindless moral tirades ? ;)

Who would have thought some of the Academic quotient out there could find themselves with so little to do - with the lack of International Student numbers coming in ? ;)

Well said. I tried to give you some reputation for that post but the system says I need to spread it around first...that's pretty hard on this thread lol

[winner69]

Are you really sure that was Part of Eligibility for March 2020 C-19 Wages Subsidy or haven't taken time to check ? ;)

Better check then ..,

[arekaywhy]

Was the Subsidy really intended to be applied as follows ? -:

1. Your Company has surplus cash & has been really well run = Stiff Cheese

2. Your Company is on the bones of it's A*se & likely to fall over any day = Congrats - you qualify

;)


aaaah...isn't socialism wonderful though? *pukes in mouth*

[arekaywhy]

... but don't feel its right or appropriate that they trumpet their efforts on here or anywhere else for that matter. ...



I wanted to say it by held my tongue

[Beagle]

Beagles are no good at resisting the impulse to bark ;)
Got thinking this morning about the possibility of NZX50 inclusion for HLG in 2021 given the possible takeover of Infratil and the news this morning on ATM (which admittedly looks bad now).
HLG appear to be first cab off the rank if either of these two get taken over and then I know its stating the obvious but there's 48 other companies in the NZX50 that might get taken over too !
Then there's the chances of HLG growing enough for index inclusion of its own volition. Adding the above possibilities together I think there's actually a very strong possibility of NZX50 index inclusion in 2021. Additionally, FA looks very strong as does TA.

Thinking of getting some more for Christmas for ~ 10.5% gross yield next year...HLG the gift you give yourself that keeps on giving back !

[Raz]

Are you really sure that was Part of Eligibility for March 2020 C-19 Wages Subsidy or haven't taken time to check ? ;)

It really was in the vain that you are intended to take all mitigating steps to conserve your position, very similar to under a business interruption claim. That in itself is independent from the requirement to say you must use cash reserves prior to utilising the wage subsidy or making a claim. Talk about moving the narrative and intent.

Really the debate in the media has been so weak..just shows few understand or chose to ignore the nature of the business in this circumstance.

Ignore the opportunity cost and additional cost incurred by a business by continuing and maintaining staff under covid...it assisted with the cost of steady state at best...

[nztx]

It really was in the vain that you are intended to take all mitigating steps to conserve your position, very similar to under a business interruption claim. That in itself is independent from the requirement to say you must use cash reserves prior to utilising the wage subsidy or making a claim. Talk about moving the narrative and intent.

Really the debate in the media has been so weak..just shows few understand or chose to ignore the nature of the business in this circumstance.

Ignore the opportunity cost and additional cost incurred by a business by continuing and maintaining staff under covid...it assisted with the cost of steady state at best...


Many may or may not be aware but the stated Govt site T&C for first Covid-19 wage subsidy was changed
for the later ones - with T&C quite different for second (& third subsidy) rounds

Notable aside from reference to utilising resources in later rounds, soletraders found their own
entitlements were then limited to what they usually drew from the business

[nztx]

Beagles are no good at resisting the impulse to bark ;)
Got thinking this morning about the possibility of NZX50 inclusion for HLG in 2021 given the possible takeover of Infratil and the news this morning on ATM (which admittedly looks bad now).
HLG appear to be first cab off the rank if either of these two get taken over and then I know its stating the obvious but there's 48 other companies in the NZX50 that might get taken over too !
Then there's the chances of HLG growing enough for index inclusion of its own volition. Adding the above possibilities together I think there's actually a very strong possibility of NZX50 index inclusion in 2021. Additionally, FA looks very strong as does TA.

Thinking of getting some more for Christmas for ~ 10.5% gross yield next year...HLG the gift you give yourself that keeps on giving back !



"Thinking of getting some more for Christmas for ~ 10.5% gross yield next year...HLG the gift you give yourself that keeps on giving back !"

Likewise here too ;)

[Cyclical]

Was the Subsidy really intended to be applied as follows ? -:

1. Your Company has surplus cash & has been really well run = Stiff Cheese

2. Your Company is on the bones of it's A*se & likely to fall over any day = Congrats - you qualify

;)

Haha. Surprisingly for the socialist lead government of the day, I don't believe they were the stipulations.

Peeps need to remember that at the time, there was widespread panic (as evidenced by the share market crash) and most of us were thinking doom and gloom and it's a fair bet the HLG management were of a similar mindset. Had the wage subsidy not been put up as an incentive to retain jobs (or a disincentive to axe them), who's to say the likes of HLG wouldn't have made decision at the time to slash their workforce and close some stores? If companies like that had, then NZ inc would likely be in a lot worse position than it is now. From a tax payer's perspective, I'd say it was money well spent.

[Dumbarton]

Thanks for the timely dose of positivity. All the best to your mum.

[iceman]

Thanks for the timely dose of positivity. All the best to your mum.

Interesting first post. Welcome to the forum.

[Beagle]

Thanks for the timely dose of positivity. All the best to your mum.

You're welcome and thank you.

[winner69]

Warehouse Group repaying $68m of wage subsidy

Booming sales ...confidence in future they say....and lots of cash ....so paying it back

Good on them

[Beagle]

Warehouse Group repaying $68m of wage subsidy

Booming sales ...confidence in future they say....and lots of cash ....so paying it back

Good on them

Got nothing to do with HLG who have very clearly stated their position which is something you know already and has been debated endlessly on here already.

[Balance]

Warehouse Group repaying $68m of wage subsidy

Booming sales ...confidence in future they say....and lots of cash ....so paying it back

Good on them

And has the government showed any goodwill towards taxpayers by getting Trevor Mallard to repay the $330k (plus more to come) for destroying a person’s life?

[bull....]

hlg tumbles on the news of whs repayment of wage subsidy while bgp continues to out perform. there is no doubt briscoe has superior management

[Balance]

hlg tumbles on the news of whs repayment of wage subsidy while bgp continues to out perform.

Garbage as usual from bull ...

Trevor Mallard contacted you yet?

[sampson]

Got nothing to do with HLG who have very clearly stated their position which is something you know already and has been debated endlessly on here already.

And just imagine the incessant bleating you would be doing on the briscoes thread if it was the other way around and HLG had paid it back and briscoes hadn't...

[bull....]

Garbage as usual from bull ...

Trevor Mallard contacted you yet?

lol your really showing your quite piss...ed hlg is under performing and you missed the boat on the far superior company briscoes. its quite simple duke understood about brand awareness and beat them all. hlg is gonna be left as looking bad

[bull....]

And just imagine the incessant bleating you would be doing on the briscoes thread if it was the other way around and HLG had paid it back and briscoes hadn't...

another person really upset briscoes is far superior to the underperforming hlg hahaa. and we know that wouldnt happen cause duke is far smarter

[Balance]

lol your really showing your quite piss...ed hlg is under performing and you missed the boat on the far superior company briscoes. its quite simple duke understood about brand awareness and beat them all. hlg is gonna be left as looking bad

Try again - you missed out on HLG & BGR so no point you comparing.

HLG has been a huge performer for me and next year will hit $10.00.

Eat your heart out, bull ...

You did not answer - your good mate Trevor Mallard contacted you yet re the $330k? :t_up:

[winner69]

Got nothing to do with HLG who have very clearly stated their position which is something you know already and has been debated endlessly on here already.


Circumstances have changed

Anyway I’ve emailed Chairman Bell to ask they reconsider their decision and maybe pay the subsidy back.

I see Warren Bell is on the Ryman board as well ......so might be slightly more conducive these days

[Waltzing]

Bought some up market kitchen stuff from mr Dukes stores a few years ago... did not last long. Now im not saying HLG stuff lasts either. But both sell low end product. Just bought some community silver kitchen stuff the other day from a german dealer. Expect it to last a while.

BGP -last DIV smaller , HLG ... bit bigger.

earnings per share...

[Beagle]

Circumstances have changed

Anyway I’ve emailed Chairman Bell to ask they reconsider their decision and maybe pay the subsidy back.

I see Warren Bell is on the Ryman board as well ......so might be slightly more conducive these days

You've wasted your time as have I debating this old pet chestnut of yours with you. How are you getting on with paying back the superannuation you don't need :p

[Baa_Baa]

Got nothing to do with HLG who have very clearly stated their position which is something you know already and has been debated endlessly on here already.

I think everyones position here on the paybacks is pretty much known, but what we're seeing is a shift in the optics, as to whether the listed brands are 'doing the right thing' (whatever that is depends apparently ones perspective). I fully expect a few more listed companies to pay back the gift horse, even if just to 'look right'. Better factor that payback into our scenarios / risk analysis, whether we like it or not.

[Balance]

You've wasted your time as have I debating this old pet chestnut of yours with you. How are you getting on with paying back the superannuation you don't need :p

Pandering to the woke, hypocritical, economic incompetents - all companies should stand their ground and tell Cynical Cindy that until Trevor Mallard repays the $330k, and the Maoris repay the $100m Election bribe to fix maraes (from the billions of dollars of taxpayers’ settlement funds), the government and its fairy dusted supporters can get stuffed with many hijabs up their arses.

[winner69]

You've wasted your time as have I debating this old pet chestnut of yours with you. How are you getting on with paying back the superannuation you don't need :p

Mr Savage said the government was putting one and frippence in the pound aside to give to me when I got old ......so it’s only my money coming back to me.

[850man]

Pandering to the woke, hypocritical, economic incompetents - all companies should stand their ground and tell Cynical Cindy that until Trevor Mallard repays the $330k, and the Maoris repay the $100m Election bribe to fix maraes (from the billions of dollars of taxpayers’ settlement funds), the government and its fairy dusted supporters can get stuffed with many hijabs up their arses.

That gets my vote for the most entertaining post of the day (and some very good points made as well)😂🤣

[Beagle]

Mr Savage said the government was putting one and frippence in the pound aside to give to me when I got old ......so it’s only my money coming back to me.

Well mate its certainly been a fierce debate this year...probably the fiercest I can ever recall between you and I.
Jarden's November report out the other day noted an average corporate tax rate in the OECD of 22% compares to our rate at 28%. What's the bet they have been paying taxes a lot longer than you and at a much higher tax rate, (corporate tax rate was 33% for decades). Once in their listed lives since 1947 the staff of HLG need some support when the operation is completely shuttered, (HLG paid a huge chunk of those staff costs themselves) they get some much needed support.

The thrust of your argument seems to be that corporations never deserve support unless they are nearly bankrupt and then only on a temporary basis. All those evil companies that own farms and get drought and earthquake relief support, its not fair is it !

Lets agree to disagree but I suspect we can "look forward" to you endlessly raising the subject again on this thread every time another company pays back the wage subsidy.
Its tiresome and juvenile, I am sorry but I have to call it as I see it and that soapbox you love climbing on is well and truly worn out and paper thin.

[Beagle]

Pandering to the woke, hypocritical, economic incompetents - all companies should stand their ground and tell Cynical Cindy that until Trevor Mallard repays the $330k, and the Maoris repay the $100m Election bribe to fix maraes (from the billions of dollars of taxpayers’ settlement funds), the government and its fairy dusted supporters can get stuffed with many hijabs up their arses.

Go on, don't hold back mate, tell us what you really think :D

[macduffy]

Lets agree to disagree but I suspect we can "look forward" to you endlessly raising the subject again on this thread every time another company pays back the wage subsidy.
Its tiresome and juvenile, I am sorry but I have to call it as I see it and that soapbox you love climbing on is well and truly worn out and paper thin.

Wouldn't it have been better just to stop at the "Let's agree to disagree."?

[Greekwatchdog]

You could/should add the $30m the Govt is paying FBU for the land.. Anyway Merry Xmas and hope you all make $$$ from HLG.

[Beagle]

Wouldn't it have been better just to stop at the "Let's agree to disagree."?

No. Some people need to hear the message emphatically. I can assure you I'm not the only one tired of him raising this subject endlessly on this thread. The company has very clearly stated its position and reiterated that in their annual meeting earlier this month for goodness sake ! How many times must we endure this subject being endlessly raised on this thread.
Let him wax lyrical on the appropriate thread if another company chooses to replay the subsidy if he feels he must.

[macduffy]

No. Some people need to hear the message emphatically. I can assure you I'm not the only one tired of him raising this subject endlessly on this thread. The company has very clearly stated its position and reiterated that in their annual meeting earlier this month for goodness sake ! How many times must we endure this endless crap being raised on this thread.
Let him wax lyrical on the appropriate thread if another company chooses to replay the subsidy but surely we have had enough in here...for goodness sake !!

So stirring the pot is the right response?

[Beagle]

So stirring the pot is the right response?

Yes its time for me to filter out the pollution.

[Jantar]

Warehouse Group repaying $68m of wage subsidy

Booming sales ...confidence in future they say....and lots of cash ....so paying it back

Good on them You forgot to add the bit about still laying off staff as soon as the subsidy ended. Something HLG did not do.

[Waltzing]

I come back from taking her highness waltzing and the whole thread has gone too the jigs...

[nztx]

hlg tumbles on the news of whs repayment of wage subsidy while bgp continues to out perform. there is no doubt briscoe has superior management

but aside -- it didn't do much for WHS SP either -- did you miss putting in a larger buy at elevated levels to demonstrate
support for WHS ? ;)

[nztx]

You forgot to add the bit about still laying off staff as soon as the subsidy ended. Something HLG did not do.

I remember that too -- how many WHS staffers went walking again ? ;)

[Beagle]

I remember that too -- how many WHS staffers went walking again ? ;)

I forget was it 700 or 1000 they laid off while hundreds of head office staff are on over $100K. A real bastion of social equity and justice...NOT !

[nztx]

I forget was it 700 or 1000 they laid off while hundreds of head office staff are on over $100K. A real bastion of social equity and justice...NOT !

1000 strangely enough comes to mind from back in recent past ..

[iceman]

Wouldn't it have been better just to stop at the "Let's agree to disagree."?

Of course it would have been if he meant it, rather than calling people's views "tiresome & juvenile" because he doesn't agree. Then went on in the very next post to congratulate Balance on the same subject just because he agrees with him. It could be construed as somewhat hypocritical.

[Waltzing]

Some strongly held convictions by contributors. Perfection is a difficult state of affairs.

[Balance]

Some strongly held convictions by contributors. Perfection is a difficult state of affairs.

Which is all okay imo - vigorous discussions and debates can bring out outstanding conclusions.

W69 will be W69 - ever cynical while being incisive and retrospective with his postings to provide perspective. He annoys but has his heart in the right place.

Beagle will be Beagle - posting with high conviction be them positive or negative to challenge perspectives but as we all know fondly, he can be plain barking mad at times.

This forum would be a poorer place without the likes of them.

So chill, folks - we all pass through this path of life but once.

[percy]

Which is all okay imo - vigorous discussions and debates can bring out outstanding conclusions.

W69 will be W69 - ever cynical while being incisive and retrospective with his postings to provide perspective. He annoys but has his heart in the right place.

Beagle will be Beagle - posting with high conviction be them positive or negative to challenge perspectives but as we all know fondly, he can be plain barking mad at times.

This forum would be a poorer place without the likes of them.

So chill, folks - we all pass through this path of life but once.

The low level this site has degenerated to, has meant a lot of decent knowledgeable people now avoid it.
The personnel attacks are disgraceful,and as a community it has lost any sense of respect.
I know if I were Vince and owned the site I would close it down.

[Balance]

The low level this site has degenerated to, has meant a lot of decent knowledgeable people now avoid it.
The personnel attacks are disgraceful,and as a community it has lost any sense of respect.
I know if I were Vince and owned the site I would close it down.

Such is life - this forum does reflect the real world we live in.

Maybe you can name 2 decent knowledgeable people who avoid it?

And out of curiosity (not as a challenge), as we live in a democracy, anyone but especially since you feel so strongly, is free to exit - why are you still here?

[RTM]

Circumstances have changed

Anyway I’ve emailed Chairman Bell to ask they reconsider their decision and maybe pay the subsidy back.

I see Warren Bell is on the Ryman board as well ......so might be slightly more conducive these days

Good idea. I think I will do the same.
Just doesn't seem right for companies to take the subsidy....and then have generous dividends to their shareholders.
Seems like TaxPayer money going to shareholders to me.
Many of my friends feel the same.

[Balance]

Good idea. I think I will do the same.
Just doesn't seem right for companies to take the subsidy....and then have generous dividends to their shareholders.
Seems like TaxPayer money going to shareholders to me.
Many of my friends feel the same.

Most welcome to do so and post to your heart's content on the appropriate thread :

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11929-Should-companies-who-were-perfectly-entitled-to-claim-the-wage-subsidy-pay-it-back/page8

And especially for your benefit, RTM, let me restate my position :

"Pandering to the woke, hypocritical, economic incompetents - all companies should stand their ground and tell Cynical Cindy that until Trevor Mallard repays the $330k, and the Maoris repay the $100m Election bribe to fix maraes (from the billions of dollars of taxpayers’ settlement funds), the government and its fairy dusted supporters can get stuffed with many hijabs up their arses."

[Waltzing]

From a double entry accounting view point the companies dont actually have the money and never did. From a central bank perspective it acted as a proxy to GDP. As a wealth redistribution policy it was an exchange from one tax payer to another.

Although you could add to a Tax section an adjustment averaged over the last 5 years as a subsidy section to equalise and smooth the subsidy and that would be a credit reserve on the balance sheet that requires a payment to the IRD.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Can we perhaps stop it with the Bigotry from one particular poster on this thread? not cool at all.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

hlg tumbles on the news of whs repayment of wage subsidy while bgp continues to out perform. there is no doubt briscoe has superior management

Not sure why anyone would choose Briscoes over HLG, HLG has twice the dividend yield. Or is this a recommendation for people who don't like money?

[see weed]

Most welcome to do so and post to your heart's content on the appropriate thread :

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11929-Should-companies-who-were-perfectly-entitled-to-claim-the-wage-subsidy-pay-it-back/page8

And especially for your benefit, RTM, let me restate my position :

"Pandering to the woke, hypocritical, economic incompetents - all companies should stand their ground and tell Cynical Cindy that until Trevor Mallard repays the $330k, and the Maoris repay the $100m Election bribe to fix maraes (from the billions of dollars of taxpayers’ settlement funds), the government and its fairy dusted supporters can get stuffed with many hijabs up their arses."
You forgot to mention the $30m we have to pay for ...Ishimuto land. Am not too worried about the spelling:). Merry Christmas

[bull....]

Not sure why anyone would choose Briscoes over HLG, HLG has twice the dividend yield. Or is this a recommendation for people who don't like money?

investing is not all about dividends its about capital gains as well and that means finding companies that will provide both

just to re-cap

briscoes has returned 38% YTD
HLG has returned 7% YTD

if you add on the divs to each yourself hlg would still have been a worse investment than briscoes this year.

briscoes has been by far a superior investment this year

[Balance]

investing is not all about dividends its about capital gains as well and that means finding companies that will provide both

just to re-cap

briscoes has returned 38% YTD
HLG has returned 7% YTD

if you add on the divs to each yourself hlg would still have been a worse investment than briscoes this year.

briscoes has been by far a superior investment this year

Depends on one’s entry point as you well know, being the short term trader that you are.

[bull....]

Depends on one’s entry point as you well know, bring the short term trader that you are.

most people on this site are long term investors not traders

[Balance]

most people on this site are long term investors not traders

Not you - and that's the pertinent observation to make.

FYI - at my entry point, HLG has comfortably outperform Briscoes & WHS by a long shot. Not bad for a long term investor huh?

[Waltzing]

Some people will have made over 35% and more on HLG this year we did.

As for the transfers they are a stop gap measure and no one should have paid any of it back until an accounting standard that created a capital reserve in the balance sheet. That is smoothed over a time period and that credit balanced back to the IRD. It is not a moral standard that needs to be met but an accounting standard that created fairness. That is simple double entry and maths.

[bull....]

Not you - and that's the pertinent observation to make.

FYI - at my entry point, HLG has comfortably outperform Briscoes & WHS by a long shot. Not bad for a long term investor huh?

your dreaming , briscoes is a growth stock , HLG is a non - growth stock therefore growth will always win over the long term.

[Balance]

your dreaming , briscoes is a growth stock , HLG is a non - growth stock therefore growth will always win over the long term.

In your short term opinion - which is fine and since you are invested in neither, your opinion counts for zip imo.

[RTM]

Most welcome to do so and post to your heart's content on the appropriate thread :

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?11929-Should-companies-who-were-perfectly-entitled-to-claim-the-wage-subsidy-pay-it-back/page8

And especially for your benefit, RTM, let me restate my position :

"Pandering to the woke, hypocritical, economic incompetents - all companies should stand their ground and tell Cynical Cindy that until Trevor Mallard repays the $330k, and the Maoris repay the $100m Election bribe to fix maraes (from the billions of dollars of taxpayers’ settlement funds), the government and its fairy dusted supporters can get stuffed with many hijabs up their arses."

Sigh.....have a good Xmas all.

[bull....]

In your short term opinion - which is fine and since you are invested in neither, your opinion counts for zip imo.

no re-buttal to the fact hlg is a non growth stock only wild guesses as to my stock holdings come on balance you can do better than that

[Balance]

no re-buttal to the fact hlg is a non growth stock only wild guesses as to my stock holdings come on balance you can do better than that

Lol - a short term trader who ramps a stock (or market) up and down as befits your position, professing to give long term views?

Most of us figured you out a while ago so go play your racing ramps elsewhere - does not work with us.

[bull....]

Pandering to the woke, hypocritical, economic incompetents - all companies should stand their ground and tell Cynical Cindy that until Trevor Mallard repays the $330k, and the Maoris repay the $100m Election bribe to fix maraes (from the billions of dollars of taxpayers’ settlement funds), the government and its fairy dusted supporters can get stuffed with many hijabs up their arses.

didnt that sign you have on your bedroom wall say

I dont always wear a Hijab
but when i do , it is with a tight top and skinny jeans

[Balance]

Warehouse Group repaying $68m of wage subsidy

Booming sales ...confidence in future they say....and lots of cash ....so paying it back

Good on them

And lest we miss the sales & profit implication for HLG - looks like retail is going gangbusters out there so we can look forward to a bumper Christmas for all retailers, and especially HLG.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

most people on this site are long term investors not traders

Well if you look at the long term returns like you are telling everyone they should, one would see the following:

5 year returns (excluding dividends)
HLG: 95%
BGP: 85%

5 year returns (including dividends)
HLG: 220%
BGP: 143%

[Beagle]

Well if you look at the long term returns like you are telling everyone they should, one would see the following:

5 year returns (excluding dividends)
HLG: 95%
BGP: 85%

5 year returns (including dividends)
HLG: 220%
BGP: 143%

Correct, a large part of HLG's attractiveness is the dividends. Correct Balance and I noted the improvement in gross margin with WHS too, (a not inconsiderable 170 bps) with the higher exchange rate. Plenty of clues in there for people looking for an attractive retail company where shareholders best interest are always put first and foremost.

[Balance]

Correct, a large part of HLG's attractiveness is the dividends. Correct Balance and I noted the improvement in gross margin with WHS too, (a not inconsiderable 170 bps) with the higher exchange rate. Plenty of clues in there for people looking for an attractive retail company where shareholders best interest are always put first and foremost.

Tone down the enthusiasm, Beagle or else I may just have to grab some more HLG shares at these levels to capture the upside to $10 next year!!!

[winner69]

Correct, a large part of HLG's attractiveness is the dividends. Correct Balance and I noted the improvement in gross margin with WHS too, (a not inconsiderable 170 bps) with the higher exchange rate. Plenty of clues in there for people looking for an attractive retail company where shareholders best interest are always put first and foremost.

That last comment with its emphasis (stirrer) must add at least 3 to its PE in sue course

[bull....]

Well if you look at the long term returns like you are telling everyone they should, one would see the following:

5 year returns (excluding dividends)
HLG: 95%
BGP: 85%

5 year returns (including dividends)
HLG: 220%
BGP: 143%

very selective in your return analysis

if you took BGP share price at the 30/01/09

74c

and hlg on 30/01/09 of $2.14

it is very obvious who has performed better and compare the charts side by side of bgp a nice steady uptrend which is consistant with a growth stock against the hlg chart which is irratic to say the least and is consistant with a non - growth stock

[Beagle]

Tone down the enthusiasm, Beagle or else I may just have to grab some more HLG shares at these levels to capture the upside to $10 next year!!!

I can't send you a PM mate. Clear some space or PM me with your email address.

[Balance]

I can't send you a PM mate. Clear some space or PM me with your email address.

Cleared.

Seriously, looking like all retailers could be announcing bumper profits and in the case of HLG, a bumper dividend then of course!

[macduffy]

very selective in your return analysis

if you took BGP share price at the 30/01/09

74c

and hlg on 30/01/09 of $2.14

it is very obvious who has performed better and compare the charts side by side of bgp a nice steady uptrend which is consistant with a growth stock against the hlg chart which is irratic to say the least and is consistant with a non - growth stock

"Diversification" would have you holding both stocks. I do!

:)

[nztx]

"Diversification" would have you holding both stocks. I do!

:)


Here too ;)

[nztx]

Cleared.

Seriously, looking like all retailers could be announcing bumper profits and in the case of HLG, a bumper dividend then of course!

Time to back the truck up again - you reckon ? ;)

[winner69]

Time to back the truck up again - you reckon ? ;)

No body backing the truck up by the looks of it ;)

[nztx]

No body backing the truck up by the looks of it ;)

I hear rumour that everyone is busy in stores up & down the land unloading their wallets
however .. so what better time to catch them all off guard for the next large Div payout ? ;)

[winner69]

Close today at $6.70 highest close since ex-div

That's good and spring board for it going higher

the B Team magic is working well.

[winner69]

Saw Trevor Mallard in a Hallensteins store the other day

[winner69]

Retail sales booming in Australia ...Nov sales exceed experts expectations

And how about this bit from ABS - Monthly rises were also significant in Clothing, footwear and personal accessory retailing

Chart looks cool

[Baa_Baa]

Close today at $6.70 highest close since ex-div

That's good and spring board for it going higher

the B Team magic is working well.

Such a volatile SP, currently in uncharted territory, history shows this can disappoint for literally years before another round of drinks. Smash your capital and ruin your sleep.

Current proponents espousing here are experts at market timing, masquerading as longer term investors these gurus are adept at momentum trading and ... let me tell you... looking on with as much trepidation as opportunity. Fingers not far from the trigger!

Gone in a flash they will be if it can’t hold the new highs. Bless them. Don’t get to be a real guru by just talking your book.

[pierre]

Saw Trevor Mallard in a Hallensteins store the other day

Spending his own money, I hope!

[Balance]

Spending his own money, I hope!

Haha - good one!

[nztx]

Such a volatile SP, currently in uncharted territory, history shows this can disappoint for literally years before another round of drinks. Smash your capital and ruin your sleep.

Current proponents espousing here are experts at market timing, masquerading as longer term investors these gurus are adept at momentum trading and ... let me tell you... looking on with as much trepidation as opportunity. Fingers not far from the trigger!

Gone in a flash they will be if it can’t hold the new highs. Bless them. Don’t get to be a real guru by just talking your book.

Uncharted times too

The fat lady has sung for MetLeftcare, Abano, soon will do so for Bonus Bonds

On top of this an avalanche of cash out there - created by Govt, not spent overseas, Term Deposits etc all looking
for a better than bank miniscule usury rates return -- where is it all going to go ?

A diminished number of listed dividend paying stocks with prospects perhaps ? ;)

what happens when a tidal wave of increased demand & available Loot on the loose hits a finite supply available ?

perhaps something like our housing market & sharemarket similarly all strengthening ?

Maybe we can discount volatility factors in current economic times ? ;)

Many stocks I have analysed do not appear to be following previous years trends .. I may be wrong though

[bull....]

The wage subsidy and retail: Which stores got it and who has paid it back?

Retailers are facing a moral quandary over whether to pay back the Government’s wage subsidy, with more and more big box stores deciding to return millions rather than face public backlash.


Hallenstein Glasson

The fast fashion retailer saw sales recover after a big decline during the alert level 4 lockdown (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/122889993/hallenstein-glasson-profit-falls-4-to-27m-no-plans-to-repay-wage-subsidies) but said it had no plans to repay wage subsidies it received.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123785491/the-wage-subsidy-and-retail-which-stores-got-it-and-who-has-paid-it-back

[Greekwatchdog]

Bull please stop with this? If the Govt Auditors have an issue then they will sort. This is a tired conversation....

Disc. Just brought some yesterday...

[winner69]

Spending his own money, I hope!

Trevor got government financial assistance - probably thought he should support stores who did likewise

[bull....]

Bull please stop with this? If the Govt Auditors have an issue then they will sort. This is a tired conversation....

Disc. Just brought some yesterday...

its news relevant to hlg so i can post it , if you dont like it too bad dont read it.
I am get a bit tired of the speech police on this site telling me what i cant and cannot post on a thread if they do not like it esp the ones who see posts as a negative on there one way ramp.

[Balance]

Bull please stop with this? If the Govt Auditors have an issue then they will sort. This is a tired conversation....

Disc. Just brought some yesterday...

No sweat, Gwd - bull... is obviously short, caught or missed out and has run out of ideas of how to ramp the sp down to suit his purpose.

Simple solution - he goes on ignore and I suggest everyone who has enough of his garbage do the same. No point reading repetitive garbage which no value.

[bull....]

No sweat, Gwd - bull... is obviously short, caught and has run out of ideas of how to ramp the sp down to suit his purpose.

Simple solution - he goes on ignore and I suggest everyone who has enough of his garbage do the same.

i am very surprised by the lack of understanding by people on this site and esp this thread on how such things if they gain momentum can effect a brand. it is obvious the pay-back of the subsidy is gaining momentum and companies that do- not may be effected. for me being short i am not but maybe i am a activist share holder for all you know.
anyway ive had enough of this thread i leave it to the less knowledgable to keep ramping there short term agenda

[Rawz]

Hmmmm we are in the age of the 'cancel culture'. Last thing we would need is 'instagram models' posting selfies with #boycottGlassons or #boycottHallenstiens. It's something I've been thinking about...

However, having talked to some friends whom are very 'woke' last week, it is clear this issue just isn't that cool or hip. So little risk of customers voting with their feet and shopping elsewhere it seems.

[Playa]

Retail has been booming whilst people have been unable to spend money on international travel, I wonder if this level of spending will continue when we are able to travel again?

[Gecko]

Hmmmm we are in the age of the 'cancel culture'. Last thing we would need is 'instagram models' posting selfies with #boycottGlassons or #boycottHallenstiens. It's something I've been thinking about...

However, having talked to some friends whom are very 'woke' last week, it is clear this issue just isn't that cool or hip. So little risk of customers voting with their feet and shopping elsewhere it seems.

My teenagers and their contemporaries now shop online at Shein. "It's a thing" apparently.:ohmy:

[Habits]

The wage subsidy and retail: Which stores got it and who has paid it back?

Retailers are facing a moral quandary over whether to pay back the Government’s wage subsidy, with more and more big box stores deciding to return millions rather than face public backlash.


Hallenstein Glasson

The fast fashion retailer saw sales recover after a big decline during the alert level 4 lockdown (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/122889993/hallenstein-glasson-profit-falls-4-to-27m-no-plans-to-repay-wage-subsidies) but said it had no plans to repay wage subsidies it received.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123785491/the-wage-subsidy-and-retail-which-stores-got-it-and-who-has-paid-it-back


It was a WAGES subsidy bull dont you realize... not a company subsidy. The govt made it very clear the money was to be paid to employees and that they should be paid 80 percent of their pay. WHS went even further and paid the full salary. If the companies that took the subsidy went and paid other overheads with the money or didn't pay employees at all then pay the money back. If the money was paid to staff then how possibly can the company repay that back. It would be the staff who have the money now butbit would be ridiculous for the govt to ask them for it back. I suppose you would disagree lol

[winner69]

It was a WAGES subsidy bull dont you realize... not a company subsidy. The govt made it very clear the money was to be paid to employees and that they should be paid 80 percent of their pay. WHS went even further and paid the full salary. If the companies that took the subsidy went and paid other overheads with the money or didn't pay employees at all then pay the money back. If the money was paid to staff then how possibly can the company repay that back. It would be the staff who have the money now butbit would be ridiculous for the govt to ask them for it back. I suppose you would disagree lol

I think your thinking / logic is wrong.

[winner69]

My teenagers and their contemporaries now shop online at Shein. "It's a thing" apparently.:ohmy:

Think I can see why ‘it’s a thing’ .....good stuff and some prices look pretty cheap.

Just a bit of competition - no worries

https://nz.shein.com/?url_from=nzgooglebrandshein_she_in02_20200506&gclid=CjwKCAiAz4b_BRBbEiwA5XlVVt6aVL1R4Eskm2wymayo 6vjkHKM-JrZDuP-Ba9rJk09eyCJ8tfK4vxoCSxAQAvD_BwE

[winner69]

Op shops are doing very well in the clothes department.

Quite a few well heeled young ladies buying out our way ....plenty of good branded stuff they say

[Beagle]

There are a range of uncertainties but I am modelling up about $24m for 1H FY21 up just on 50% on last years $16m and amounts to ~ 40 cps. Who knows what the dividend will be but they have truckloads of cash already, no debt and I am sure it will be dramatically higher than last years 15 cps.
This is based on sales for the first 26 weeks continuing to grow at the same rate as the first 18 weeks (14.5%), and the gross profit percentage increasing 1.8% back to the level prevailing in 2018 of 61.5%. These two factors alone add $16m in gross profit for the half year. Increased percentage of sales though online channels will add distribution and selling efficiencies.
Please don;t shoot the messenger or kick the dog in the head if I am wrong. DYOR and Merry Christmas and a happy new Year !

[winner69]

There are a range of uncertainties but I am modelling up about $24m for 1H FY21 up just on 50% on last years $16m and amounts to ~ 40 cps. Who knows what the dividend will be but they have truckloads of cash already, no debt and I am sure it will be dramatically higher than last years 15 cps.
This is based on sales for the first 26 weeks continuing to grow at the same rate as the first 18 weeks (14.5%), and the gross profit percentage increasing 1.8% back to the level prevailing in 2018 of 61.5%. These two factors alone add $16m in gross profit for the half year. Increased percentage of sales though online channels will add distribution and selling efficiencies.
Please don;t shoot the messenger or kick the dog in the head if I am wrong. DYOR and Merry Christmas and a happy new Year !

Your $24m seems reasonable

Of that about $5m would have come from a catch up on all the sales that were lost during lock downs (I reckon 80% recovered)

So real / underlying / normalised or whatever growth is $16m to $19m

[LaserEyeKiwi]

very selective in your return analysis

if you took BGP share price at the 30/01/09

74c

and hlg on 30/01/09 of $2.14

it is very obvious who has performed better and compare the charts side by side of bgp a nice steady uptrend which is consistant with a growth stock against the hlg chart which is irratic to say the least and is consistant with a non - growth stock

Oh I see we aren’t allowed to use industry standard comparisons like 5yr returns with you, instead we have to use your supposed comparison standard of....11 years and 10.5 months.

And once again you have ignored dividend payments since then, giving an incorrect investment return figure.

Personally I think the 5 year performance is a much better indicator of how current management has been performing in a timeframe relevant to investors.

[winner69]

On the news tonite - Paymark says Pre-Christmas sales are down 7% so far this week. But they expect big sakes tomorrow.

[Habits]

I think your thinking / logic is wrong.

Really how so? Lets say your Dad handed you ten dollars and said only buy something healthy, no junk food allowed (even kids know what is junk food). So you kept to the rules. You wouldn't expect him to tell you to hand it back after it was spent.

[Rawz]

Really how so? Lets say your Dad handed you ten dollars and said only buy something healthy, no junk food allowed (even kids know what is junk food). So you kept to the rules. You wouldn't expect him to tell you to hand it back after it was spent.

But what if the mum came along after and gave the kid junk food? Should the kid give the money back? Or keep both? :p

[winner69]

But what if the mum came along after and gave the kid junk food? Should the kid give the money back? Or keep both? :p

It’s not about the kid paying the money back ......dad would have given the kid the 10 bucks sometime even if the govt hadn’t subsidised it (so he’s actually 10 bucks better off) ....and mum is just a decent mum.

[Habits]

It’s not about the kid paying the money back ......dad would have given the kid the 10 bucks sometime even if the govt hadn’t subsidised it (so he’s actually 10 bucks better off) ....and mum is just a decent mum.

Yeah except in this case the mum (JA) says to the other siblings things like "Johnny got 10 bucks off of his father (GR) Johnny's getting rich at your expense and there is no money left for you lot. And by the way there's no dinner tonight". The mum knows thats a half truth and that it will make the others angry with Johnny. She does it because Johnny is her step kid and so she plays favoritism. Question : how's that fair to johnny

[Snow Leopard]

It was a WAGES subsidy bull dont you realize... not a company subsidy. The govt made it very clear the money was to be paid to employees and that they should be paid 80 percent of their pay. WHS went even further and paid the full salary. If the companies that took the subsidy went and paid other overheads with the money or didn't pay employees at all then pay the money back. If the money was paid to staff then how possibly can the company repay that back. It would be the staff who have the money now butbit would be ridiculous for the govt to ask them for it back. I suppose you would disagree lol


Really how so? Lets say your Dad handed you ten dollars and said only buy something healthy, no junk food allowed (even kids know what is junk food). So you kept to the rules. You wouldn't expect him to tell you to hand it back after it was spent.


Yeah except in this case the mum (JA) says to the other siblings things like "Johnny got 10 bucks off of his father (GR) Johnny's getting rich at your expense and there is no money left for you lot. And by the way there's no dinner tonight". The mum knows thats a half truth and that it will make the others angry with Johnny. She does it because Johnny is her step kid and so she plays favoritism. Question : how's that fair to johnny

I give it one shot to put you on the right track:

Government gave money to HLG who gave money to staff.


Now, if HLG were to do the right thing then:

HLG would give money [back] to government and staff keep money given to them.


Disc: I am having first slice of freshly delivered XMAS log roll and nobody is taking that away from me.