PRC Pike River Coal

[Xerof]

Unfortunately, A mine on the west coast is the least of Gerry's priorities at the moment.....so who exactly who is minister of mines now? Gerry was relieved of this portfolio on Thursday I believe

[geezy]

Xerof, are you sure on this? Whats NZ coming too?

[Xerof]

Yes, he is dedicated Minister for earthquake recovery, and has been relieved of all other posts is my understanding.

[Sideshow Bob]

Yes, he is dedicated Minister for earthquake recovery, and has been relieved of all other posts is my understanding.

Yes, this is correct.

[Monkey Poms]

Yes, he is dedicated Minister for earthquake recovery, and has been relieved of all other posts is my understanding.

That is my understanding of the situation Xerof, I am sure Christchurch mayor Bob Parker will keep Gerry Brownlee right. Bob is doing an excellent job, he knows how to make a decision.
Strange that in a time of crisis it sometimes brings forth a natural leader.

Monkey Poms

[Paint it Black]

Well I hope John Key has reassigned mines to the right person then to get this show on the road - I see it is Hekia Parata - will she have the inclination and forthrightness to do this? As open casting will help ChCh recover surely Gerry will still be able to promote some direction here.

[Xerof]

I think the predicted 50 to100k lost jobs in Christchurch will probably be a higher priority for Gerry, this is why he's has been relieved of all other duties - CHCH is munted

I don't know of Hekia, her abilities, or influence within the Cabinet, so can't comment, but the recent events over the divide are not helpful to the focus you are looking to be poured on Greymouth, IMO

[Paint it Black]

I think the predicted 50 to100k lost jobs in Christchurch will probably be a higher priority for Gerry, this is why he's has been relieved of all other duties - CHCH is munted

I don't know of Hekia, her abilities, or influence within the Cabinet, so can't comment, but the recent events over the divide are not helpful to the focus you are looking to be poured on Greymouth, IMO

Exactly 50K - 100K suddenly unemployed people need to find some work through some dare I say it 'think big' projects to stimulate our exports - it may not be at the mine itself but on some associated service industry. We need to see the big picture here for NZ's sake. Greymouth and ChCh are not far apart at all these days.

Have to say I'm worried Hekia Parata has not the necessary experience - a list MP entering parliament in 2008 and whose other role has been to replace Pansy Wong in Woman's and Ethnic Affairs. Potentially not the pedigree for open minded mining decisions but we trust John knows best.

[MrDevine]

I can't see why there are those continuing to bang on about open casting this mine. If it was feasible in the first place they would have done it. Until the RCI has taken place it's an academic discussion, no new party will be able to do anything there until the inquiry has been completed.

Mr D.

[Monkey Poms]

Some numbers which I don't think are too far out:
Front end loader capable of loading up to 40,000 bank cubic m per day on an average overburden of 140m average coal seam thickness 10m = ratio of 14 to 1, coal production will average out 2,857 tonnes per day, revenue value around US$ 642,825 per day.
Of course, the right amount of dumper trucks would be required to reposition the overburden
and fuel is expensive. Pike have the pipeline in place to transport coal production to the
coal washing plant - a huge benefit.
Very little of the 60 million tonnes of coal reserves have been mined by underground tunnelling.
Pike know where the tunnels are, it should not be too much of a safety issue (danger of
heavy mobile mining equipment falling into existing tunnels )

The new player on the block have inherited a labyrinth of old underground mine-working
tunnels, a nightmare to opencast, and they might not have the reserves they think they
have.
Worked the numbers out using two front end loaders. I leave you to work the numbers out yourselves - or you will think I've had too much sun on this holiday.

Monkey Poms.

[the machine]

I can't see why there are those continuing to bang on about open casting this mine. If it was feasible in the first place they would have done it. Until the RCI has taken place it's an academic discussion, no new party will be able to do anything there until the inquiry has been completed.

Mr D.

labor needed the green vote to stay in power, thats why no open cast from outset.

M

[BWR]

Just to clear up the matter of coal stocks - the following was announced by John Dow on 29 November 2010

"I am pleased to announce that over the weekend we negotiated, and today completed, an agreement with Solid Energy under which it will purchase our coal stockpiles. This amounts to approximately 20,000 tonnes which would, of itself, not have met our own future shipping arrangements. The terms of this sale will see Pike receive full net market value for this hard coking coal once on-sold to an end-user customer.”

The receivers weren't appointed until two weeks later on the 13 December, by which time the 20,000 coal stockpile tonnes had been shipped and paid for. The 5,000 tonnes the receivers report is coal that hadn't reached the stockpile - work in progress is you like.

[fabs]

BWR;
Thanks for that, clears up the mystery how they could not have met the predicted target for next shipment with only 5000 tonnes produced by the fateful 29th.

[Monkey Poms]

I reiterate fabs's thanks for that, BWR.

Monkey Poms.

[Xerof]

Just to clear up the matter of coal stocks

Thanks for responding Brian

[tony64peter]

BTU are are in the late stages of their Resource consent application and access arrangements with DOC prior to open cast mining in the Buller area above Westport. This company seems very positive on the outcome. Heres Hoping. Should this consent occur then I can't see why the Greymouth council's land swap [for PRC] proposal won't go ahead or vice versa. Comments?????

[Snapper]

If the govt wants to opencast Pike River then there's no better time to do it than right now. Talk of billions to rebuild Christchurch and trimming working for families will have many thinking about their hip pocket and how mining mightn't be so bad after all. I see even Jim Hopkins was advocating something similar the other day in his column...hardly a right wing pro-mining man I'd have thought.

[dsurf]

A one-off open cast mine sounds like a good idea. Government could appease voters by saying it is purely to support Pike miners & Christchurch re-build. Westport gets jobs & bodies back & permanent memorial. Government could pre-sale levy a one-off 50% tax on profits which if mine is worth billions would raise billions. This of course would probably be politically acceptable to mainlanders, ie , swapping Paparoa ranges impact for new cathedral, houses etc. Gove could also stress is a one-off in response to two of worst disasters in NZ history etc.

[the machine]

A one-off open cast mine sounds like a good idea. Government could appease voters by saying it is purely to support Pike miners & Christchurch re-build. Westport gets jobs & bodies back & permanent memorial. Government could pre-sale levy a one-off 50% tax on profits which if mine is worth billions would raise billions. This of course would probably be politically acceptable to mainlanders, ie , swapping Paparoa ranges impact for new cathedral, houses etc. Gove could also stress is a one-off in response to two of worst disasters in NZ history etc.

having a higher tax rate than rest of all other nz business is probably illegal

M

[Mr Tommy]

Pike River FOR SALE sign is up...


http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/pike-river-2010/70231/pike-river-receivers-putting-mine-up-for-sale


The receivers of the Pike River coal company intend to start trying to sell the mine next week, now that they have control of the site.

The mine, where explosions killed 29 men in November, has been transferred from the police to PricewaterhouseCoopers.

One of the receivers, John Fisk, says that means they can officially call for offers and he hopes to make an announcement about the process quite soon.

More than 10 companies, including some large international coal firms, have expressed interest in taking over the mine.

Mr Fisk says the receivers are still trying to stabilise the mine, which has been impossible to enter since 19 November, and have set aside $5 million for the purpose.

A spokesperson for the families of those who died, Bernie Monk, says they want assurances the men's remains will be recovered even if the mine is sold. But the receivers, he says, are making no promises.

The police say they still intend to attempt a recovery if re-entry becomes possible.

[Mr Tommy]

And from Herald today ...

Another robot is to make its way into the Pike River Coal mine either this weekend or next week, receivers say.
PricewaterhouseCoopers took control of the mine yesterday, but have said they will hand the mine back to police if recovery of bodies becomes a possibility.
Receiver John Fisk says PWC's responsibility is to recover the money lent to secured creditors. He says the body recovery operation is the responsibility of the police and that operation stopped some time ago.
"If we can to a position where evidence or body recovery becomes a possibility again, then that task will be handed back to police," he told Newstalk ZB.
John Fisk says the families of the 29 miners will be told if re-entry into the mine is possible.
He says Pike River Coal will implement the mine stabilisation plan prepared by the company management in conjunction with expert mining advisers. A separate fund has been set aside for this purpose.
"Stabilisation is a necessary first step to allow the investigation of options for the mine. However, there can be no assurance that the stabilisation plan will be successful or, even if it is, whether other options such as an eventual re-entry to all or part of the mine will be feasible," he says.
Mr Fisk says there are no explosions happening in the mine, but it's not in a state where people can enter. He says one of the next steps is to send a robot from Western Australia up the mine shaft over the weekend or early next week.
Grey District Mayor Tony Kokshoorn is encouraging the receivers to do everything they can to recover the remains of the men.
"I think it's a moral obligation from the receivers now to go back to their shareholders to find the cash to enable that recovery to happen."
Tony Kokshoorn says the families are still grieving, and won't be able to move on until they get their loved ones' remains back.
He says it will be good for everyone if the receivers work to reopen the mine. Mr Kokshoorn says the government's borrowing $250 million a week, and the Christchurch rebuild's expected to cost 15 billion.
"We have huge mineral here on the West Coast so it's just common sense and a no-brainer that you will actually make sure that mineral wealth turns into wealth for the country."
Tony Kokshoorn says Pike River mine has between $6 billion and $10 billion worth of coal.

[Arbitrage]

If the "For Sale" sign is up how would you value the mine in its current state?

[Hoop]

Quote Herald Article..."Grey District Mayor Tony Kokshoorn is encouraging the receivers to do everything they can to recover the remains of the men.
"I think it's a moral obligation from the receivers now to go back to their shareholders to find the cash to enable that recovery to happen.".....

Hmmmm......TK is in dreamland.....

[blockhead]

If the "For Sale" sign is up how would you value the mine in its current state?

Well if I was buying it I would look at the value of the coal in place and starting from there would work back to end up with a figure representing surplus over costs, ie cost of getting it out, $$ value on risk attached to the venture etc etc.

I would say it is probably a very attractive prospect, there has been swags of work done to get it to the brink of production and most of that infrastructure and the consents remain in place.

If you were to forget everything that has happened up to today and say to xyz Coal Prospecting Co, "here is a whole mine full of coal ready to go" I imagine they would be very interested, gee I wouldn't mind betting even the odd (NZ) based oil producer/explorer could be interested........whats their name again, The NZ Oil Gas (and coal) CO LTD ????

[the machine]

basis mine is sold then what happens to spare cash after all debts paid [including convertable bonds]?
liquidate company and return any left over cash to shareholders?

the sale process could still happen within 2 months, inturn company liquidated by end of june = able to claim tax loss this financial year.

M

[geezy]

all we need is the DOC to allow it to be open cast, the buyers list will be a long one :)

[iceman]

More from the Herald today. Last couple of paragraphs are interesting :

Pike River receivers say they have had around a dozen unsolicited expressions of interest in the mine - most from overseas - although an analyst warns that any buyer will need very deep pockets.

Receiver John Fisk said no one could enter the mine but footage taken from an unmanned vehicle being sent up the tunnel in the next few days would provide information for potential buyers. Explosions in the mine near Greymouth last November killed 29 men and resulted in the mine being sealed.

The mine was formally handed over to receivers PricewaterhouseCoopers on Wednesday although Fisk said police would still be responsible for body recovery.

"We want to see how much damage is up there and what the prospects are of getting access to the mine.

"Now we've got some certainty with the handover we're looking at a sales process," he said.

He would meet Pike River managers next week to establish the sale process.

Article continues below

The licence for up to 60 million tonnes of high grade coking coal was the project's most valuable asset and besides the damaged tunnel there there was undamaged associated plant and equipment.

Pike River had planned to mine about 19 million tonnes of coal over 20 years which could have fetched about $6 billion.

Fisk said any buyer would need a new mining method.

The single roadway tunnel driven up under the coal seam is still filled with methane gas of concentrations of up to 97 per cent three months after the explosions.

"It's likely a buyer would like to have two accesses to the mine.

"My understanding is that's international best practice these days."

Even though the mine is on Department of Conservation land next to a National Park, there had also been discussion about open cast mining as well. Possible buyers include steel makers who want to guarantee supply of coking coal as well as mining companies, Fisk said.

James Smalley, an analyst for Hamilton Hindin Green, said potential buyers had to assess whether the coal was too difficult to access safely. An open cut operation where overburden stays on-site was expensive but with high coking coal prices could be economic.

In Australia, some Chinese steel makers had bought into iron sands companies and may be looking to do the same with coking coal operations.

"A lot of these guys are trying to become self sufficient."

Pike River's Indian coal company shareholders with a combined stake of 12.6 per cent could be a complication in blocking a new buyer or could step up to the plate themselves.

Close to $300 million had been spent on the mine which had just started to produce coal, months behind schedule.

A royal commission of inquiry will determine what caused the disaster and was due to report next year.

Fisk said this would not necessarily delay any sale.

"The potential purchasers out there now have said they don't need to wait for the outcome."

[Mr Tommy]

"The single roadway tunnel driven up under the coal seam is still filled with methane gas of concentrations of up to 97 per cent three months after the explosions."

Anyone know if that GAG machine is still running? If the large ventilation fan was replaced, and turned back on, then assuming the main access tunnel is not too nbadly damaged, would the methane all blow out and the tunnel be safe to enter again? Or would they need to displace the methane with something else before reconnecting the ventilation? Anyone know?

[skid]

From a purely economic point of view,this would be a great time to get the mine stableized

[Monkey Poms]

Iceman.
NZOG testing the water to assess the value of Pike as the situation stands at the moment, and to assess the value should opencast be approved.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pike River's Indian coal company shareholders with a combined stake of 12.6 per cent could be a complication in blocking a new buyer or could step up to the plate themselves.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Poor performance shown in the past by the two Indian directors, indicates to me that, should the circumstance arise and the present shareholder equity is diluted by say 30% for a third party to come to the table with a cash injection, to go forward with an opencast operation, then the Indian directors should protect their remaining investment in Pike by standing down as directors.

Monkey Poms.

[777]

Interesting article.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10711929

[Monkey Poms]

Hi Boysy. Depending on whether the supplier can deliver the equipment on site ( because of the NZ transport system the equipment, because of its size, will have to be broken down and reassembled on site - expensive ).

The main core, Cat equipment, would be as follows. Uk ballpark price converted to NZ$.
This lot will get you started.

Depending on how far you have to tip the overburden, about six CAT 777 rigid dump trucks
cost NZ$1,827,500 each.
One Cat D10 dozer NZ$1,616,800
One Cat 390 face shovel NZ$1.171.750
Two Cat RH90's these machines are big. I have not got a price as yet. They will be expensive and
they will make short work of moving the mountain.

A full service and maintenance contract purchased from the equipment supplier a must.
A must not, is to allow young lads in their 20's, gung ho and full of testosterone loose on
these machines on top of a mountain, otherwise we end up with a heap of scrap.
On our way up from the Catlins near Oamaru there is a gold mining company
who use similar equipment. They don't play about, and get the best from their
equipment. Pike need to poach some of their operators.
Delivery time for the above equipment six to nine months.

I must admit that the biggest Cat equipment that we use are large Cat front end loaders
on rubber tyres. The last machine purchased,and delivered two months ago took twice as long delivery time as quoted.

Boysy, this won't answer all your questions. The main thing is you have to have the finance
and the people with the guts to do it.

Monkey Poms.

[LIO]

Interesting article.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10711929

Interesting indeed 777.
Possibly, rather than buying the mine outright, SE could contibute the extra capital and expertise and become a major shareholder, thus creating one of those 'Public Private Partnerships' that our govt. seems keen to promote. Money for the shrinking coffers, plus a chance for the Mum 'n Dad investors. Might meet with taxpayer approval.
A win-win solution ???

[iceman]

From the Herald today. Good on Rodney Hide. Just a shame he is so non influencial and irrelevant ! But at least this issue is gaining some publicity, which is great.

Hide: We'd raise 'hundreds of billions' by mining national parks
Act leader Rodney Hide says his party would allow mining in national parks and on high-value conservation land to unlock the "hundreds of billions of dollars" in wealth desperately needed to bolster New Zealand's flagging economy.

Delivering his speech to his party's annual conference yesterday, he accused National of caving in to the anti-mining lobby, and said the open-cast mine at Waihi was a tourist attraction.

Mr Hide said New Zealand was facing the toughest of times economically.

The recovery was still tentative, and in danger of being wrecked by a global oil price shock plus the enormous cost of rebuilding Christchurch.

"Make no mistake. We are on the brink. We need a steely focus on jobs and the economy."

He accused a "well-off middle class" - those with opportunity, jobs and money - of stopping developments which created jobs for those who did not have those advantages.

"We need to get a sense of proportion about mining," he said.

"What is wrong with a few open-cast mines? I find the scale of them dramatic and grand. Plenty of other people do, too."

National last year abandoned its plans to allow prospecting and potential mining operations in 7000ha of protected conservation land following a huge public outcry.

Mr Hide said Act would use any leverage it had in post-election coalition negotiations to reverse National's position.

The two-day conference was attended by about 100 delegates - about the same number as were at last year's, but many fewer than the numbers during Act's heyday.

Mr Hide refused to comment on rumours of a new centre-right party. He said he had learned it was best to focus on what he was doing, rather than what others might be planning.

Apart from the economy and the parlous state of the Government's finances, much of the conference was taken up with debate on Maori rights.

As one of several guest speakers to address the conference, former National Party leader Don Brash said he did not know why so many public events must began with a prayer (karakia) or lengthy speech in Maori, even if none of those present could understand it.

"Most New Zealanders these days don't say any prayers. Why should they have Maori prayers they can't understand thrust upon them?"

But he rejected suggestions he wanted to scrap the Treaty of Waitangi. He said the document had been ahead of its time. In 1840, the policy in Australia had been to "shoot the natives".

That prompted one delegate to interject "Let's bring it in", drawing gasps of disapproval from those around him.

Another guest, broadcaster and former Alliance MP Willie Jackson, spoke on why Maori were entitled to special treatment. He accused Winston Peters and Act of playing the race card.

But Mr Hide said Act was determined to stop the country going down "the road to separatism" and would continue to insist on "one law for all" - something National had promised to uphold but had failed to do so.

By John Armstrong

[Balance]

From the Herald today. Good on Rodney Hide. Just a shame he is so non influencial and irrelevant ! But at least this issue is gaining some publicity, which is great.



Rodney Hide has no credibility left so any utterances from him will actually be a negative from a public's perspective. John Key swings with the public sentiment - not a leader of conviction.

[dsurf]

Like the bit about "big pockets" in the Herald story - can live with that!"

[yabster]

not a supporter of Hide but I like what he says esp about having to put up with Maori prayers before public/private meetings.

Re John Key having no conviction- In my opinion hes doing a great job in a difficult situation. The alternative would be diabolical.

[Balance]

not a supporter of Hide but I like what he says esp about having to put up with Maori prayers before public/private meetings.

Re John Key having no conviction- In my opinion hes doing a great job in a difficult situation. The alternative would be diabolical.

Don Brash made the comment about Maori prayers. Agree it's so dumb that only NZers will put up with this cultural-cringe Maori nonsense.

John Key doing a great job? Eh? Let's name one significant thing he has actually done since he came to power. Bicycle track, anyone?

[yabster]

hes cutting the burecrauts numbers that always ballon when Labours in office, they are going to look at social welfare reform- which is badly needed given the numbers on it. They have signed and made progress with many free trade agreements. Tax cuts (even though GST has gone up). Want some more Balance?

[Casa del Energia]

National radio article this moring. Spokeman for Solid Energy was interviewed. They are in the running for buying pike. He went on to say that they have the particular expertise to do the job properly, even open casting would be highly tecnical. I didn't quite catch all of what he was saying - my morning coffee hadn't kicked in yet - but it sounded to me that solid energy is saying that they are the only ones with local experience for running that type of mine. Think he also said that they'd make sure they got the miners remains out.
Don't know if that series of arguments would carry far with the receivers who have only a financial focus.
We'll see.

[BigBob]

National radio article this moring. Spokeman for Solid Energy was interviewed. They are in the running for buying pike. He went on to say that they have the particular expertise to do the job properly, even open casting would be highly tecnical. I didn't quite catch all of what he was saying - my morning coffee hadn't kicked in yet - but it sounded to me that solid energy is saying that they are the only ones with local experience for running that type of mine. Think he also said that they'd make sure they got the miners remains out.
Don't know if that series of arguments would carry far with the receivers who have only a financial focus.
We'll see.

Check out these links...:

http://www.3news.co.nz/Solid-Energy-expresses-view-of-Pike-River-development/tabid/421/articleID/202236/Default.aspx

http://www.3news.co.nz/Only-Solid-Energy-can-mine-Pike-River/tabid/423/articleID/202034/Default.aspx

[J R Ewing]

My impression of what he was saying was that there was only one more chance to extract the coal and that Solid was the only company in the world with the expertise to do that. He seemed to be saying that overseas companies were charging in prematurely, and implying that Solid should get preferential treatment - although he recognised that was not within the recievers role. I can't say I found him convincing.

[Arbitrage]

Logically they would have the inside running. They have the local knowledge, established relationships within the region, the expertise, the infrastructure, the Government backing and influence to ensure the lost miners would be recovered as a priority, and the profits would remain in NZ and offset the costs spent by the govenrment so far.

[Balance]

hes cutting the burecrauts numbers that always ballon when Labours in office, they are going to look at social welfare reform- which is badly needed given the numbers on it. They have signed and made progress with many free trade agreements. Tax cuts (even though GST has gone up). Want some more Balance?

Cutting bureaucracy numbers? By how many and has red tape lessened? Have you tried dealing with the Super-City bureaucracy since National pushed through the supercity structure? I have and believe me, it's worse than ever and you now have council staff all protecting their jobs. Rates are going up and they were supposed to go down!

Social welfare reform? Tinkling around the edges as per usual - hitting the most vulnerable in society whilst closing one eye to the wastage in health, government departments, parliamentary services and of course, Maori welfarism. Remember Ruth Richardson? She tried and National lost its nrves very quickly. Supercity budget for non-elected Maori representatives, anyone?

Free trade agreements? Started by Labor and now, being buggered up by Key playing race card. Crafar farm, anyone? Okay for Australians, Americans, Germans and Italians to buy farms in NZ of course.

Tax cuts? Completely offset by GST rise, ETS, government charges etc. Seen any economic benefits yet from the tax cuts?

This is John Key at his best :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q_0x_4o4k

Aw shucks - why take life so seriously? NZ is going down the tubes,, losing the best and brightest to Australia so why bother trying too hard seems to be Key's attitude.

[iceman]

And they could buy PRC in its entirety and thereby gain a "backdoor" listing on the NZX, quietly achieving the Government's stated aims !!


Logically they would have the inside running. They have the local knowledge, established relationships within the region, the expertise, the infrastructure, the Government backing and influence to ensure the lost miners would be recovered as a priority, and the profits would remain in NZ and offset the costs spent by the govenrment so far.

[Ian]

The receivers need to sell it to the highest bidder. Good on Solid for trying to sway the bidding process in favour of them but no way can the receivers accept a lower bid for the good of the country. IF NZ wants the mine owed by Solid Energy (and I’m not saying they are not the best to mine Pike) then they either need to put in the highest bid or the govt needs to put up the differance

[Balance]

The receivers need to sell it to the highest bidder. Good on Solid for trying to sway the bidding process in favour of them but no way can the receivers accept a lower bid for the good of the country. IF NZ wants the mine owed by Solid Energy (and I’m not saying they are not the best to mine Pike) then they either need to put in the highest bid or the govt needs to put up the differance

Good sign for NZO shareholders that Solid Energy is playing the NZ card - they must be aware of some serious competition to get into the PR game so early.

[Ian]

Good sign for NZO shareholders that Solid Energy is playing the NZ card - they must be aware of some serious competition to get into the PR game so early.

Yes I was thinking that as well

[iceman]

Just heard on Radio Live news that John Key backs the idea about Solid Energy buying PRC but says its not a done deal. Sounds like this has been discussed at the highest political level before Solid Energy started its PR campaign

[Monkey Poms]

Logically they would have the inside running. They have the local knowledge, established relationships within the region, the expertise, the infrastructure, the Government backing and influence to ensure the lost miners would be recovered as a priority, and the profits would remain in NZ and offset the costs spent by the govenrment so far.

They could buy the mine on the cheap from the Receiver before government opencast approval.
Then after the purchase of Pike, obtain government approval for opencast ( Brilliant - Pike is now worth five times the purchase price ).

Solid Energy could then take a trip down to the Blackball Hilton, after a good meal they could
visit the Roa mine and opencast operation in the Paparoa range, a mirror image of Pike-proposed
opencast operation. SE could learn a lot from Roa, they have no need to boast on how good they
are, left alone they simply get on with the job.
Pike employ a man who ran a opencast operation at one time producing annually more coal
than all the coal producers in NZ put together. Ok, it was easier then, a more sympathetic approach to mining from government.

Still clinging to the possibility of present shareholders financing opencast through a rights issue,
the odds are not good.

Monkey Poms

[yabster]

First off super-city is local politics that i don't care about, secondly you contridicted your self as usual - re cutting out the bureaucrats -thats exactly what they are looking at i.e wastage in the Health system due to Labour employing more and more "public servants".
What did Labour do around welfare reform? sweet FA.

Thats my last post on that as after all this is a PRC forum.

[Balance]

First off super-city is local politics that i don't care about, secondly you contridicted your self as usual - re cutting out the bureaucrats -thats exactly what they are looking at i.e wastage in the Health system due to Labour employing more and more "public servants".
What did Labour do around welfare reform? sweet FA.

Thats my last post on that as after all this is a PRC forum.

Super-city is National Party policy forced on Auckland. As usual, all care and no follow up and no responsibility once the deed is done.

Labor makes no pretense that it is all about social welfarism. National makes a big song and dance but does nothing save target the most vulnerable in society.

PRC can make a huge difference to NZ's balance of payment and economic growth - don't expect Key to rise to the occasion though. Easier just to tinkle around the edges and play silly bugger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q_0x_4o4k

[iceman]

MP, I share your (fading) hope that current shareholders will finance or at least be part of any re-start package. Find it hard to believe that NZO and the Indians will walk away from their large investment and resource without at least getting their money back. After all the PRC debt is not a huge amount.


They could buy the mine on the cheap from the Receiver before government opencast approval.
Then after the purchase of Pike, obtain government approval for opencast ( Brilliant - Pike is now worth five times the purchase price ).

Solid Energy could then take a trip down to the Blackball Hilton, after a good meal they could
visit the Roa mine and opencast operation in the Paparoa range, a mirror image of Pike-proposed
opencast operation. SE could learn a lot from Roa, they have no need to boast on how good they
are, left alone they simply get on with the job.
Pike employ a man who ran a opencast operation at one time producing annually more coal
than all the coal producers in NZ put together. Ok, it was easier then, a more sympathetic approach to mining from government.

Still clinging to the possibility of present shareholders financing opencast through a rights issue,
the odds are not good.

Monkey Poms

[Arbitrage]

How/why could anyone realistically outbid Solid Energy? They have the home ground advantage here. Cynics will think that this is spin that there are other competitive bids and the deal offered by SE will be best possible outcome. If I owned a mining company I doubt if I would want to bid against a company that has the PM's backing.

[Balance]

How/why could anyone realistically outbid Solid Energy? They have the home ground advantage here. Cynics will think that this is spin that there are other competitive bids and the deal offered by SE will be best possible outcome. If I owned a mining company I doubt if I would want to bid against a company that has the PM's backing.

This PM? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q_0x_4o4k

The one of a country borrowing $250m a week now to stay afloat?

Good one.

I can just imagine the BHPs of this world quaking in their billion dollar mines at the PM's backing. More likely falling off their chairs laughing their heads in the board room wondering what kind of PM NZ has got!

[J R Ewing]

If SE do have the unique expertise claimed then the mine is worth more to them than any other bidder and they should be happy to pay market price for it.

But I can't see SE or anyone else getting approval for an open cast coalmine in a national park.

[Wiremu]

Arbitrage,

Don't be taken in by Solid Energy's PR spin. Don Elder is making very selective statements which at best are half-truths.

Let's start with NZ owned, all for NZ, etc, etc. Didn't Solid Energy sell a 50% share in Spring Creek to Cargill. Last time I looked Cargill was anything but a New Zealand company.

And let's look at Spring Creek. Has anyone asked why Solid Energy closed that mine for a day "with respect to the miners who lost their lives at Pike River". Yet the Spring Creek mine is in such poor shape that it still hasn't reopened and we are four months down the track. Why, at a time of record prices for coking coal, is that mine still shut?

I understand that Spring Creek is barely reaching 60% of its forecast production rates - and run by the entity that states they are the best in the world at this type of operation.
Solid Energy's history in relation to safety and environment simply doesn't stand scrutiny.

Of equal nonsense are the ramblings of Don Elder on JORC compliant resource and reserve figures - half truths at best. 100m borehole spacings yet they don't do in-seam drilling. They probably don't know what it is and why it is such an important tool. I suggest Mr Elder is being deliberately duplicitous (or just dumb) to not mention that.

As for his comments on part opencast mining presented as facts. What about the conservation controls and considerations? What about the parts that still have to be mined underground. Why would you opencast part of the mine and how can that be justified? And as for the infrastructure not being required that's so transparent its almost laughable.

As a PRC shareholder I expect the receivers to do their job, and maximise the return for the secured creditors leaving as much as they can for shareholders and creditors and to take no notice of attempts by Solid Energy to influence the public, the politicians, the receivers, and Mr Kokshorn with their duplicitous statements. Solid Energy's offer will be all that counts and no amount of unsupportable bluster will make up for a low price compared to other offers.

[brucey09]

Snrs. What did happen to robotic numero 3

[Balance]

Snrs. What did happen to robotic numero 3

You mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q_0x_4o4k

[whatsup]

This PM? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Q_0x_4o4k

The one of a country borrowing $250m a week now to stay afloat?

Good one.

I can just imagine the BHPs of this world quaking in their billion dollar mines at the PM's backing. More likely falling off their chairs laughing their heads in the board room wondering what kind of PM NZ has got!

Balance, Most of the "borrowing $250 mil per week " is mostly old debt , some of it is 10 years old and each week there is debt due in some shape or form , it has been that way for decades, there may be some new borrowing added from time to time but I think some of this weekly debt roll over goes back to the "think big " days when the massive amount of over seas money was borrowed in the first place.

[Balance]

Balance, Most of the "borrowing $250 mil per week " is mostly old debt , some of it is 10 years old and each week there is debt due in some shape or form , it has been that way for decades, there may be some new borrowing added from time to time but I think some of this weekly debt roll over goes back to the "think big " days when the massive amount of over seas money was borrowed in the first place.

Wish that was the case but it's not. At end of Jan 2011, government debt $14.3 billion more than a year ago - $275m more every week.

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/52586/treasury-figures-show-budget-deficit-deepening-corporate-gst-and-income-tax-revenues-are-weaker-exp

NZ government now borrowing like crazy to stay afloat.

One day, the debtors world will say enough. Then, watch the NZ$ drop like a rotten kiwifruit off the vine and NZ goes cap in hand to raise cash to buy petrol, tractors, fertilisers, wheat, TVs, cars, clothings, computers etc. The overseas debtors will say - ok but we buy your assets like Pike River for NZ$50m or US$20m. Thanks for coming.

[Monkey Poms]

Hi Arbitrage. We are told that Solid Energy are doing a good job. Have Solid Energy made the maximum of all the resources available to them? Such as the availability of finance and the large amount of modern equipment SE employ, access to some of the best quality coal in the world - thick coal seams coming out to meet you, compared to the thinner seams of coal worked by others.

Solid Energy would have to raise their game to compete with the bigger opencast players, and not try to stretch the job out until they retire.
We shareholders are unlucky with the Pike situation as it stands. More leeway by the DOC (Government ) to PRC in the past, then I do not think Pike would be in the position they are in at the moment.

Monkey Poms

[tony64peter]

Prime news tonight, stated that Solid Energy had confirmed that it was a contender in buying PRC with a priority of getting the men out. It also stated that SE thought they would be the best operator of the mine with 100yrs West coast experience.

[Monkey Poms]

brucey09 - What happened to Mouse?

Monkey Poms

[brucey09]

Snr. Monkey pom - you know I suffer alot of this trouble as we all may. I am not a mouse. the robo was to go now.

[Monkey Poms]

Snr. Monkey pom - you know I suffer alot of this trouble as we all may. I am not a mouse. the robo was to go now.

Hi Brucey09 I refer to Mouse,he lives in Christchurch,hope he is ok,the Pike forum is less
entertaining without him.

Monkey Poms

[brucey09]

Si Snr monkey
comprender

[777]

MP. Go to "community" at top of this page and select" member list" them "M" then about page 8 to see when mouse was last online.

[kiwitrev]

Hi MP.
Receiver selling to SE on the cheap will never happen. He has a statutory duty to obtain the best price possible. His primary duty is to the debenture holder(NZO) but MUST have regard to ALL creditors. If a sale eventuates, and timing here will be critical to maximise value i.e. appro. open cast or not, he simply resigns his post once NZO are repaid. If he does not obtain the best price possible that would create a credibility issue for PWC and impact on them re future appointments. He will then arrange (with any other creditor) to have PRC wound up and the Liquidator would have the task of realising any other assets (possible insurance claim for example) and distributing remaining funds to other creditors in their pecking order. A condition of any sale would have to include recovery of miners' remains if that is possible.

[Arbitrage]

The Government would have to approve any overseas bid no matter how good it was wouldn't it? That would be an interesting hurdle especially in election year, and with the public watching very closely.

[Monkey Poms]

Thanks 777 looks like he got through the quake.

Monkey Poms.

[Monkey Poms]

Hi Arbitrage it would be interesting to see how many hurdles SE & Government could put
up to deter outside bidders with the public watching very closely.

Monkey Poms.

[the machine]

If the SE talk assists as a means to an end with gaining some open cast mining approvals, then the value of the mine should increase significantly - timing here is a key factor - before or after the receivers sell it.

If before then shareholders may see a few cents return for their shares, but if after [just like now] then zip return to shareholders.

I would be very surprised if mine not sold by end of june

M

[Arbitrage]

Hi Arbitrage it would be interesting to see how many hurdles SE & Government could put
up to deter outside bidders with the public watching very closely.

Monkey Poms.

The games have started already with both the Prime Minister supporting it, and SE talking about retrieving the bodies as a priority. Those who think the highest potential bidder will win may be disappointed.

[Balance]

The games have started already with both the Prime Minister supporting it, and SE talking about retrieving the bodies as a priority. Those who think the highest potential bidder will win may be disappointed.

All the tough and scare-mongering talk will scare off the small players and the politically sensitive buyers like the Chinese. Not so one of the big players - and SE is but a small player in the global scene.

It will make it cheaper however for one of the Australian miners - so thanks to John Key and SE for all the hard work bringing down the price!

[kiwitrev]

Hi Balance
SE are playing a game of chicken trying to frighten off the oppn. The statements they have made about the complexity and duration b4 mining ops come to fruition may or may not be true although everyone probably accepts there will be challenges. I don't think SE will win a game of chicken with the large internationals, they have heaps more expertise than SE, being doing it far longer and multiple times more. They will come to their own conclusions based on their experiences.

[Jackson]

SE bid with debt/ equity? Secured creditors get paid, focus on retrieving bodies, local ownership and PRC shareholders become SE shareholders?

[Balance]

SE bid with debt/ equity? Secured creditors get paid, focus on retrieving bodies, local ownership and PRC shareholders become SE shareholders?

Now that could work.

[digger]

SE bid with debt/ equity? Secured creditors get paid, focus on retrieving bodies, local ownership and PRC shareholders become SE shareholders?

Good points Jackson for first post.My thoughts as well.You just left out the important bit where SE then gets back door listing from PIKE.
Cheers

[Jackson]

Correct Digger, it dovetails nicely into the Government's goals for partial sale of SOE assets at the same time. Backdoor listing of SE, cash & debt/equity for PRC assets / shareholders, government frees up cash and NZ'rs partake in the profits from our own resources long term. It may take some years for Pikers to get their money back but I invested for the long term cashflow generated by the proven saleable coal.....it is still there and I am prepared to wait.

[Billy Boy]

Welcome Jackson
Great posts !!!!
marvelious what a bit of new introduced blood can do !!!
BB

[the machine]

SE bid with debt/ equity? Secured creditors get paid, focus on retrieving bodies, local ownership and PRC shareholders become SE shareholders?

Can any posters get this concept out to NZO?

I say NZO because they have the most say in the receivership

M

[iceman]

Interesting to see that overwhelming feedback on TVNZ's Breakfast show this morning (which was discussing Rodney Hide's plans for mining) is in favour and eager to opencast mine our coal resources. Maybe the political tide has changed. Like a former Boss of mine used to say, "its easy to be green when you're in the black, but impossible to be green when you're in the red". Seems the public is slowly realising we can not continue to be in the red at current levels and utilising our resources will help us turn this around. Finally !

[Balance]

Interesting to see that overwhelming feedback on TVNZ's Breakfast show this morning (which was discussing Rodney Hide's plans for mining) is in favour and eager to opencast mine our coal resources. Maybe the political tide has changed. Like a former Boss of mine used to say, "its easy to be green when you're in the black, but impossible to be green when you're in the red". Seems the public is slowly realising we can not continue to be in the red at current levels and utilising our resources will help us turn this around. Finally !

Needs a real leader to promote open cast. A leader with vision and real conviction to get the country back into shape and to tackle the aftermath of ChCh earthquake.

Think NZ has such a leader?

Meanwhile, the receiver certainly knows his responsibility : "Receiver John Fisk said he was balancing the families' concerns with his legal requirement to get the best possible price for the Pike River mine.
He said it was not the receivers' responsibility to recover bodies - only to manage the assets of Pike River Coal Ltd. The mine was still too unstable to launch a recovery operation in any case, he said. "We've got a duty as receivers to get the best price reasonably obtainable at the time of sale. We have to go through the process to ensure we've discharged that duty."

[Monkey Poms]

Xstrata close to acquire Drummond's Colombian coal business
Posted on: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 03:00:28 EST
Symbols: BAC, VDNRF, TCK, VALE

Jan 10, 2011 (MANAVIGATOR via COMTEX) --
Swiss-based mining major Xstrata (LON:XTA) is nearing a deal to buy US coal miner Drummond's Colombian operations for USD8bn (EUR6.2bn), The Sunday Times reported, without citing sources. According to the paper, Xstrata is now the only bidder with a fully-financed offer for the unit. The London-listed miner declined to comment. The other suitors -- Vedanta Resources (LON:VED) and Indian Essar Global -- had got more time from lead-manager Bank of America Merrill Lynch (NYSE: BAC | PowerRating) to secure the necessary financing but they did not manage to do so, the paper wrote. Sector players, including Vale SA (SAO:VALE5), BHP Billiton (ASX:BHP), Glencore International, Rio Tinto (ASX:RIO) and Teck Resources (NYSE: TCK | PowerRating), were previously also said to be among the potential buyers. Drummond, which entered the Colombian market in 1980, is currently the second largest coal exporter in the country. Country: Colombia, Sector: Metals/Mining Target: Drummond's Colombian coal business Buyer: Xstrata plc Vendor: Drummond Company Inc Deal size in USD: 8bn Type: Divestment Status: Auction
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A big price to pay for this coal operation. The coal is steam coal worth less than half the price per tonne compared to Pike coking coal.
The most difficult aspect for any company working in Colombia (guerillas ), terrorists
who wait for companies to invest in their region then step in and demand a tolling fee; companies who do not pay the fee can expect their employees to be kidnapped or murdered.

I have purchased a lot of Colombian coal in the past through an oil company and watched a few of our cargoes being loaded on to barges at the ports of Santa Marta and also the Prodeco terminal. Planned trips to the mine were halted because of employees being kidnapped for ransom at the time. A Colombian friend working for Mitsubishi Coal had his father murdered and had to leave the country for a while to escape the same fate. Our Colombian hosts supplies us with a car and an armed guard while we were there.

The point of all this is that there must be some sort of added value for foreign bidders for PRC to be able to live and work in a safe environment, such as New Zealand.

[minimoke]

The point of all this is that there must be some sort of added value for foreign bidders for PRC to be able to live and work in a safe environment, such as New Zealand.Except of course the reality is we have a mine that has blown up killing 29, theres the recent Tiller and Roa mine deaths and the Pike (I think - or was it strongman) guy that drove off the road shortly after arriving in the country. Mining has one of the highest injury rates of any industry in NZ. I suspect foreign bidders will be aware that life is probably valued more highly than in some other countries and that may not be so attractive.

[Balance]

Except of course the reality is we have a mine that has blown up killing 29, theres the recent Tiller and Roa mine deaths and the Pike (I think - or was it strongman) guy that drove off the road shortly after arriving in the country. Mining has one of the highest injury rates of any industry in NZ. I suspect foreign bidders will be aware that life is probably valued more highly than in some other countries and that may not be so attractive.

ACC covers everything in NZ so that makes operating here more attractive!

[minimoke]

ACC covers everything in NZ so that makes operating here more attractive!
A common misconception - ACC doesn't pay - the employers do.

[Balance]

A common misconception - ACC doesn't pay - the employers do.

Agreed - Employers pay ACC levy but in the event of any accident, ACC pays.

[minimoke]

Agreed - Employers pay ACC levy but in the event of any accident, ACC pays.Semantics may be, but Solid Energy are an Approved Provided which means they pay their full accident costs. ACC probably only kicks in when the stop loss is triggered. Given most mining accidents in NZ occur underground would an SOE want to at least doubling their risk exposure (SE have already said PRC went in on the back of 10% of the knowledge SE would have had). Be an Approved Provider with two underground mines may not be so attractive for an IPO.

[Balance]

Semantics may be, but Solid Energy are an Approved Provided which means they pay their full accident costs. ACC probably only kicks in when the stop loss is triggered. Given most mining accidents in NZ occur underground would an SOE want to at least doubling their risk exposure (SE have already said PRC went in on the back of 10% of the knowledge SE would have had). Be an Approved Provider with two underground mines may not be so attractive for an IPO.

Pardon my ignorance but why be an Approved Provider?

Idea of ACC is universal insurance providing cover at company or individual level - ie. pooling.

[minimoke]

Pardon my ignorance but why be an Approved Provider?

Idea of ACC is universal insurance providing cover at company or individual level - ie. pooling.
An Approved Provider is essentially a self insurer - its a way an employer can remove themselves from the "quality" injury and claim management services ACC provides. It means they carry the full risk of the cost of their injuries - though they can "re-insure" through ACC a stop loss which mean ACC stumps up with the extra cash if claims costs exceed certain levels.

The advantage SE (and clearly PRC) would have with this scheme is that accidents tend to be catastrophic and therefore cheaper. It costs less to bury a person than fix up a tetraplegic.

Getting a bit off topic here - but anyone coming into NZ mines now will be "Experience Rated" - meaning they pay a ACC levy and if they stay safe get a discount or if they hurt people pay an excess.

[Monkey Poms]

Minimoke, mining is dangerous in even the most affluent countries around the world.
The foreign companies working in Colombia at the time had the latest equipment.
Dust suppression and health and safety around the port coal loading facility
were superior to any I had seen in the UK at the time.
Multinational mining companies are very aware of class action lawsuits that they
may face if they get it wrong, in whatever country they choose to work in.

Back to the point, foreign bidders for Pike are unlikely to come across guerillas-terrorists
villains or whatever you want to call them, wanting to kill or kidnap your employees
for ransom, or to demand a sum of money per tonne to allow you to continue working
without hinderance. A big plus. This threat is real in Colombia - you don't have such things
in New Zealand.

Monkey Poms

[peat]

when will trading resume?
if the NZX wont do it then
shadow market ?

[winner69]

I see the chart below this thread still has PRC at 88 cents

[minimoke]

....
Multinational mining companies are very aware of class action lawsuits that they
may face if they get it wrong, in whatever country they choose to work in.
Another plus for NZ. No class action suits here!. Generally prevented due to our Accident Compensation environment. Case in point - the Chinese, with their one child policy, want to sue someone in Christchurch for the loss of their children who died in the CTV building during the recent earthquake. They are tough out of luck.


Back to the point, foreign bidders for Pike are unlikely to come across guerillas-terrorists
villains or whatever you want to call them, wanting to kill or kidnap your employees
for ransom, or to demand a sum of money per tonne to allow you to continue working
without hinderance. A big plus. This threat is real in Colombia - you don't have such things
in New Zealand.

Monkey Poms
Your Columbian backdrop reminds me of a road trip trip between Bogota and Medellin. I've first hand experience of the threat but not everyone is kidnapped or killed - though I suspect luck rather than good management was on my side that day.

It would be foolish to suggest NZ is similar however it is still not without threat. I've also been shot at by some Mad Maori in the Corramandel when unknowingly crossing his land. There are parts of the North Island that you won't get through easily. More Mad Maori in Tuhoe are reknowned for aggressively harassing people as they pass through the Uruweras. And the unemployed and stoned Maori on the Far North are not beyond requiring Koha if you want free passage.

As for down South you have the Eco-Guerrillas. SE know this threat very well and have gone as far as infiltrating the opposition camps with spies. Ask SE how much it has cost them to salvage, house, dig up and relocate the land the Powelliphanta "Augustus" lived in. If you start talking "Open Cast" on Schedule land the Greenies will find a rare native six legged Tree Toad, tie themselves to trees and chain themselves to dozers long before you get to turn a sod. If you want to see how far a mad Kiwi Greenie will go check out Pete Bethune.

Not Columbia for sure - but anyone who thinks NZ is a soft touch for open cast on Schedule land is in for a surprise.

[Balance]

Another plus for NZ. No class action suits here!. Generally prevented due to our Accident Compensation environment. Case in point - the Chinese, with their one child policy, want to sue someone in Christchurch for the loss of their children who died in the CTV building during the recent earthquake. They are tough out of luck.


Your Columbian backdrop reminds me of a road trip trip between Bogota and Medellin. I've first hand experience of the threat but not everyone is kidnapped or killed - though I suspect luck rather than good management was on my side that day.

It would be foolish to suggest NZ is similar however it is still not without threat. I've also been shot at by some Mad Maori in the Corramandel when unknowingly crossing his land. There are parts of the North Island that you won't get through easily. More Mad Maori in Tuhoe are reknowned for aggressively harassing people as they pass through the Uruweras. And the unemployed and stoned Maori on the Far North are not beyond requiring Koha if you want free passage.

As for down South you have the Eco-Guerrillas. SE know this threat very well and have gone as far as infiltrating the opposition camps with spies. Ask SE how much it has cost them to salvage, house, dig up and relocate the land the Powelliphanta "Augustus" lived in. If you start talking "Open Cast" on Schedule land the Greenies will find a rare native six legged Tree Toad, tie themselves to trees and chain themselves to dozers long before you get to turn a sod. If you want to see how far a mad Kiwi Greenie will go check out Pete Bethune.

Not Columbia for sure - but anyone who thinks NZ is a soft touch for open cast on Schedule land is in for a surprise.

Open cast needs a leader with real vision and conviction. You are not going to get it with Key. Notice how he was nowhere to be seen yesterday with the RWC Christchurch decision? If it was good news, good time charlie PM would have been there.

Stray off any beaten path in any country and you are courting trouble? Watch the movie "Deliverance" and it is apparently chillingly true in parts of the US and outback Australia. Heck, backpackers disappear into the outback every year for years until some of the predators were caught. Watch Crime Investigation Australia - frightening that the Aussies could not put one and one together until in one case, 7 backpackers were kidnapped, held captive, raped and then, murdered.

If someone casually walks around your house looking for an entry to a neighbor's place, how will you feel? Likewise, the average land owner (be him Maori or pakeha or half-breed) is not going to take kindly to people casually walking across their land?

[tony64peter]

Interesting reading todays Herald. 5 dead robots in the mine. None of them passed the loader. The gas mixture in the mine 90% Nitrogen and 90% Methane,great maths.

[minimoke]

Interesting reading todays Herald. 5 dead robots in the mine. None of them passed the loader. The gas mixture in the mine 90% Nitrogen and 90% Methane,great maths.Thats because those that do the math are always giving 110% to their job!

[Mr Tommy]

Heres the herald story.



Pike River Coal's receivers are using new tactics to establish the extent of damage in the mine which will be formally put on the market next week.

They say they want to have the damaged mine sold by the end of June.

So far five robot vehicles have been lost in the tunnel leading to the coal seam where 29 men died after explosions deep in the mine last November.

Relatives of the men have called on the receiver's workers to enter the mine to recover remains or "stand aside" but receiver John Fisk said it was still too dangerous for people to go in.

Methane levels in the mine are around 90 per cent and nitrogen - which has been pumped into the tunnel - was at about 90 per cent.

"It's not air that you can breathe and if you introduce oxygen it could explode again. We're taking advice from the mine rescue group and they're telling us it's not safe to go in there at the moment."

It was hoped that at the weekend a bore hole to the mine area would be finished to allow laser monitoring equipment to be lowered into it.

It was planned to lower the equipment into the pit bottom area next Wednesday.

"We believe there's been a fairly significant rock fall at that point and the reason why we were attempting to get robots in the mine was to see how significant it was."

Sending the machines up the mine has so far failed.

Two army robots were lost in damp conditions in the mine during initial rescue effort; three weeks ago a Water Corporation of Western Australia vehicle made it 1600m up the tunnel before running into an abandoned loader; and a smaller machine that it deployed then short-circuited.

Last week another Water Corporation robot got snagged on its fibre optic cable 500m into the tunnel.

"Unfortunately we had to abandon that one as well. It's very, very frustrating for the people down there. It makes it difficult for the staff who are effectively being criticised for the work they're doing. They're doing their best," Fisk said.

Advertising will start in Australia next week and companies that could be interested are being contacted. About 120 different industry contacts are being targeted.

State-owned Solid Energy has declared itself interested and said it was prepared to spend up to $100 million on a concept plan to resume mining at Pike, in the Paparoa Range inland from Greymouth.

"We're pleased Solid is interested naturally but there are a number of other parties as well showing interest," Fisk said.

The Pike River company had planned to mine about 19 million tonnes of coal over 20 years which could have fetched about $6 billion.

[Lion]

What process will a possible sale take, I wonder?

If there are many parties interested, (and we are told there are), and there are many different owners of the mine company (including many posters here), wouldn't a fair sale process be to start trading the shares again?

I see an announcement today recommending option holders DON'T exercise their options.
Fair call, I suppose, but isn't there a case for extending the exercise date for the options by at least the time the shares have not been trading, if there's a chance the shares may start trading again?

It's a small chance, but what if someone wants the $6b+ worth of coal badly enough (especially if it can be opencast profitably) to pay more than $1.25 a share, then the options could maybe have a value again.

Edit: Remember the options exercise money is quite substantial - it might count as an asset for a bidder.

[Arbitrage]

Yes I think that an extension of the exercsie date for the options say for 24 months might have been beneficial. I wonder why this was not considered?

[dsurf]

could be wrong but maybe the management partly paids will still be able to be "bought" at a later time. Extending the options would dilute manmagement & NZO head shares.

ps I do not care as an option & NZO holder.

[BWR]

Arbitrage & Lion,

ASX listing rule 6.23.3 relating to changes affecting options states "a change which has the effect of...increasing the period for exercise....cannot be made."

It is one of the more simple listing rules to understand.

[Lion]

Arbitrage & Lion,

ASX listing rule 6.23.3 relating to changes affecting options states "a change which has the effect of...increasing the period for exercise....cannot be made."

It is one of the more simple listing rules to understand.

With respect Brian, this rule can be and has been waived for exceptional circumstances.
Circumstances don't get much more exceptional than a mine explosion.

Edit: There was just such a waiver made yesterday for another company on ASX in fact. - "Waiver from listing rule 6.23.3 options exercise period."

[Xerof]

With (even more) respect Lion, recall that BWR is designated spokesman for PRC on this channel, so please read between the lines.

In any event, the PRC team have no remaining authority to do anything - the Receivers are in charge at this point.

[Lion]

With (even more) respect Lion, recall that BWR is designated spokesman for PRC on this channel, so please read between the lines.

In any event, the PRC team have no remaining authority to do anything - the Receivers are in charge at this point.

Thanks for all the respect, Xerof.
Yes, I know who BWR is.

But I'm afraid I can't read between the lines - what do you mean?

[the machine]

the value of options expirying as a tax loss should be very substantial to those who purchased the options.
in my case i never bought any, just had the freebees, which will not be a tax loss

M

[iceman]

What about the head shares ? Does anyone know how they should be valued for tax purposes as of 31 March 2011 ?


the value of options expirying as a tax loss should be very substantial to those who purchased the options.
in my case i never bought any, just had the freebees, which will not be a tax loss

M

[777]

A big fat zero.

[BWR]

Lion,

If you are referring to Rheochem the waiver is actually confirming the expiry date, which was under threat of being shortened by some corporate actions:

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110330/pdf/41xr2lnxl2q1zk.pdf

The problem with extending the expiry date of options is that it takes value from the shareholders, and passes that value onto option holders. Most of the few waivers given by the ASX in this regard relate to ESOP schemes where the value concerned is insignificant (The Warehouse).

[mr.needs]

Remember the options exercise money is quite substantial - it might count as an asset for a bidder.

Why? It will dilute their share of the company

[Bixbite]

Why? It will dilute their share of the company

Why not?

Sell share @$1.25 and then pay $0.80 to buy it back. Absolutely a no cost business, isn't it?

[Jackson]

Surely for the options to have any value, a sale would need to be finalised before 24 April 2011 and the sale price would need to exceed $617 million (rough calculation of secured creditors owed $110 mill and 405,513,933 listed shares at $1.25). Anything over that price would see option holders excercise their options and take profit on anyting over $1.25. Yes, the excercise of options would dilute shareholding but would also increase capital (they have to inject $1.25 per option to the balance sheet to exercise). Or have I go it wrong?

[Jackson]

Bixbite, I think you have this wrong. You need to buy it at $1.25 and sell it at $??. If its 80 cents, you wouldnt exercise your options...
But if you want more options, my mate and I have 1,2 million of them for you, and our wives aren't happy :-)

[Bixbite]

Hello Jackson,

Let's breathe the same air and back to the point - as you mentioned above - "a sale would need to be finalised before 24 April 2011".

~ I don't think so. If PRC is still existed, the company can issue a new option PRCOB to replace the PRCOA. (I might be wrong.)

~ Actually, due to the two Indian coal purchase contracts, if the final buyer is a coking coal user, it probably would only pay a one-off amount of money to buy off the whole company PRC. Would this buyer offer a big amount? I doubt, because it needs to prepare two budgets - one for the bid and one for the development.

Bixbite

[Xerof]

But I'm afraid I can't read between the lines - what do you mean?

He refers you to a listing rule which provides his underlying answer - "computer says no"

[Monkey Poms]

Surely for the options to have any value, a sale would need to be finalised before 24 April 2011 and the sale price would need to exceed $617 million (rough calculation of secured creditors owed $110 mill and 405,513,933 listed shares at $1.25). Anything over that price would see option holders excercise their options and take profit on anyting over $1.25. Yes, the excercise of options would dilute shareholding but would also increase capital (they have to inject $1.25 per option to the balance sheet to exercise). Or have I go it wrong?

Hi Jackson put in $100 million for the insurance claim into the equation, pike would be into the red for secured and unsecured
creditors not counting the receivers fee, roughly $20 million.

Monkey Poms.

[Monkey Poms]

Hello Jackson,

Let's breathe the same air and back to the point - as you mentioned above - "a sale would need to be finalised before 24 April 2011".

~ I don't think so. If PRC is still existed, the company can issue a new option PRCOB to replace the PRCOA. (I might be wrong.)

~ Actually, due to the two Indian coal purchase contracts, if the final buyer is a coking coal user, it probably would only pay a one-off amount of money to buy off the whole company PRC. Would this buyer offer a big amount? I doubt, because it needs to prepare two budgets - one for the bid and one for the development.

Bixbite

Hi Bixbite,

The successful bidder for Pike would scrap the coal contracts with the two Indian companies as the contracts stand today they favour the Indians (ref ash penalty).

Big question mark as to the value of the mine as an underground mining operation ?.

Today I spoke with the owner of an opencast company who has a vast experience of opencast mining. He knows his stuff and is familiar with working in difficult terrain, a deep seam of coal to him would be one metre thick. I was told that he paid the going rate of £4 per tonne of coal lying in situe, which he paid the owner of the land he is currently opencasting:

The ratio of overburden to coal 11 to 1.
The sum of £4 per tonne, this for a poor quality steam coal of which he can sell for £60 per tonne.
On top of the £4 per tonne he would pay for the planning application, roads, and services.

£4 per tonne over a sale price of £60 per tonne = to a percentage fee of 6.66%

The pit head price for Pike coal at the moment app $260 US dollars per tonne apply the 6.66%
= US$17.32 converted to NZ = NZ$ $22.86 the price per tonne a UK mine operator would pay
for coal lying in situe, Pike have all the infrastructure in place.

If prospective buyers think that they can obtain permission to opencast all or part of the 60 million tonnes of coal, the bidding war could be interesting.

Bixbite it may be possible for the receiver to apply a clause in the sale of Pike (should opencast permission be obtained within 7 years a financial premium to apply) otherwise you can bet your bottom $ that very soon after the sale of Pike, the winning bidder who may have had a nod and a wink prior to the sale then achieves government permission to opencast the mine.

Contrary to past suggestions that New Zealand are geographically disadvantaged regarding shipping.

Australia to Tokyo 17.0 days sailing. (plus a good chance of incurring demurrage waiting time)
New Zealand to Tokyo 21.6 days
Columbia to Tokyo 33.7 days

Monkey Poms,

[Lion]

Thanks BWR, I see your point.

But a mean-minded cynic might wonder if the rule not to extend the exercise date for options can be waived for company employees but not for general shareholders.

[Lion]

MP thanks for your knowledgeable input.

If I follow you correctly a UK based bidder might pay NZ$22.86 per ton of coal in situ, maybe more because infrastructure is in place.

To do the final bit of arithmetic (the easy and fun part) for 10m tons that's approx $230m a bidder might offer, or for the whole 60m tons, $1.3b

Divided into 450m shares that's about 50cps or $3 per share, respectively.

[Monkey Poms]

Lion you go to the top of the class.
In the UK juicy opportunities such as Pike never come up, ( 9 to 12 metre thick coal seams ) a dream, if however the opportunity ever arose payment would probably be arranged through a tolling fee paid monthly as the extracted coal left the site.
Only the biggest players, and there are a quite few could afford to pay the tolling fee up front.

Monkey Poms.

[iceman]

Thanks MP for your very valuable input.

[Bixbite]

Thanks MP.

Before turn on my computer, I have spent a whole early morning for weeding. I always have a thought, how good if the money come as quick as the weeds - out of control.

Bixbite

[iceman]

The Receiver says on Stuff today that there is strong interest in the mine with over dozen expressions of interests received so far with suggestions it includes Australian and Indian companies. A formal sale process to start next week.

[Corporate]

The Receiver says on Stuff today that there is strong interest in the mine with over dozen expressions of interests received so far with suggestions it includes Australian and Indian companies. A formal sale process to start next week.

I wonder if we will get any money in the end. I've written my holding off, could be a nice suprise!

[digger]

I wonder if we will get any money in the end. I've written my holding off, could be a nice suprise!
OK just for the fun i will start a competion for best final guess on what PIKE shares will end up selling for.True this could get positive and complicated.Like if before a sale were knowlingly to include opencast that would send up the price.Also but to a lesser extent the sale value would rise if DOC were excluded and the new mine owners could run it as a business instead of a greeny keep happy fiasco that PIKE-1 was.To highlight just how complicated this could get i must confess that i do not know when a sale is likely to occure. Lets say by end 2011.Also note i assume the 100 million insurance will be available for the new owner. My guess is 35 cents for existing shares.

[Hoop]

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/Blue-Duckcartoon.jpg
More than a dozen groups are expressing interest in buying the Pike River coalfield, which has a resource worth up to $6 billion.

[Monkey Poms]

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/Blue-Duckcartoon.jpg
More than a dozen groups are expressing interest in buying the Pike River coalfield, which has a resource worth up to $6 billion.

Nice one Hoop.

Monkey Poms.

[Kiwi]

Hi Corporate.
Excuse my ignorance but when the mine is sold does the buyer have to buy the company as a going concern and so buy all the existing shares or do the Receivers just get what they can and forget about the share holders?
Also I would like to see a NZ business buy it, such as Solid Energy, so the money stays here and not disappear overseas.

[Corporate]

Hi Corporate.
Excuse my ignorance but when the mine is sold does the buyer have to buy the company as a going concern and so buy all the existing shares or do the Receivers just get what they can and forget about the share holders?
Also I would like to see a NZ business buy it, such as Solid Energy, so the money stays here and not disappear overseas.

It really depends on the nature of the sale. If it's a straight sale, the cash first goes to secured creditors, employees, unsecured creditors and then shareholders get whatever is left.

[blockhead]

The Receiver says on Stuff today that there is strong interest in the mine with over dozen expressions of interests received so far with suggestions it includes Australian and Indian companies. A formal sale process to start next week.

Who thinks NZO could be in the lineup ???

[Tyro]

NZO should be involved in some (perhaps joint-venture) bid, as much to talk the price up as anything.

[iceman]

I do Blockhead. They would have to be crazy not to be in the lineup !


Who thinks NZO could be in the lineup ???

[the machine]

OK just for the fun i will start a competion for best final guess on what PIKE shares will end up selling for.True this could get positive and complicated.Like if before a sale were knowlingly to include opencast that would send up the price.Also but to a lesser extent the sale value would rise if DOC were excluded and the new mine owners could run it as a business instead of a greeny keep happy fiasco that PIKE-1 was.To highlight just how complicated this could get i must confess that i do not know when a sale is likely to occure. Lets say by end 2011.Also note i assume the 100 million insurance will be available for the new owner. My guess is 35 cents for existing shares.

hey digger, I will put my 49c worth in - so now the number on entries has doubled.

m

[digger]

hey digger, I will put my 49c worth in - so now the number on entries has doubled.

m

Hi The Machine,
Not many competitions double in one go like that,so we are away laughting.
Over the years i have run a few competitions and looking back the average has come out roughtly near the final mark.Last year and all year long i said Tapis would end at 100 dollars.At the time of first stating that it was a long shot with a few posters pointing out how it would in fact be closer to zero than 100. It ended at exactally 100 on 31 december 2010.
Pike is worth something for the many reasons stated here and other articles. What it is worth is the hard one. We now know more than a dozen are interested so the value will in my mind clearly exceed monies lent to Pike and receivers costs.
So come on posters give us your insight and feel for the entire project as is where is.
35 and 49 are gone.

[777]

Well to keep the average thing going I will pick 42c.

Really I have no idea.

[Monkey Poms]

OK just for the fun i will start a competion for best final guess on what PIKE shares will end up selling for.True this could get positive and complicated.Like if before a sale were knowlingly to include opencast that would send up the price.Also but to a lesser extent the sale value would rise if DOC were excluded and the new mine owners could run it as a business instead of a greeny keep happy fiasco that PIKE-1 was.To highlight just how complicated this could get i must confess that i do not know when a sale is likely to occure. Lets say by end 2011.Also note i assume the 100 million insurance will be available for the new owner. My guess is 35 cents for existing shares.

Hi Digger, 35 cents per share, after the insurance payout the outstanding debt would be about 20 million. That would mean a bid of around NZ$$162million. I do not think NZO, who are really the driving force behind the sale, would accept that sum - if they did, the directors of NZO should all resign.

When the CEOs of cash-rich multinational mining companies stop laughing at Don Elders ( Solid Energy ) attempt to talk down the value of Pike by his childish statements, I am fairly sure some of the bids will give you a pleasant surprise.

I guess that the big players in the mining industry may take a gamble on a bid for the mine with the prospect of gaining government permission in the near future to opencast.
Digger it's bold, people tell me that if I fell into a bucket of s__t I would always come out smelling of roses.
I hope for all our sakes I'm somewhere near the mark.
In my view the mine will be sold for in excess of NZ$ 600 million, giving the shareholders NZ$ 143 per share minimum.

Monkey Poms

[Ian]

Well Monkey I'll be hoping you win the digger competition - I'm always interested in hearing your opinions. $1.43 seems out there thou, but thanks

[Jackson]

I'm with Monkey Poms on this. I think shareholders will be pleasantly surprised (especially those who have written off their investment completely :-)). I believe there are 2 outcomes;

Full sale - shares will exceed 88c which they were at at time of explosion... my guess is $1.00.

Debt Equity to Solid Energy - We all become SE shareholders with an initial face value commensurate with the highest alternative tender, so I guess i would have to say $1.00 as well

[Mr Tommy]

In my view the mine will be sold for in excess of NZ$ 600 million, giving the shareholders NZ$ 143 per share minimum.

Monkey Poms

Reports say Solid Energy "is prepared to spend up to $100 million drawing up plans for the project" so we have to assume its worth spending a few bob on. So my guess is NZ 300m for the sale, and hopefully the insurance 100m comes thru as well, so my guess is about 75c per share.

Also the access tunnel is OK down to at least 1600m as the robot 4 or 5 got that far, which is hopefully good news for prospective bidders.

[dsurf]

close to $1billion sale price - Cheap for $6billion of coal - include the other seam $8billion? Government making loud positive noises. Not sure of maths but will suggest $2.50 and the options should have been extended. Been called a dreamer before but paying 1 billion for 6 billion of resource - no multi national would ever do that would they? Plenty of other stable countries with infrastructure, willing government, no terrorists etc and huge coking coal deposits going cheap????

[Corporate]

I'm not so optomistic, there's a lot of stigma attached to PIKE. 25c is my guess.

[iceman]

Below is a quote from a Government energy discussion paper accidently prematurely released over the weekened. I think these will be encouraging words for all potential bidders for PRC. Media reports in Australia last week said BHP plans to spend $12 Billion on buying up and developing new resources so I think we will have a great bidding fight. I pick 95cps.

''For too long now we have not made the most of the wealth hidden in our hills, under the ground, and in our oceans. It is a priority of this Government to responsibly develop those resources.''

"Mineral fuel, particularly coal and petroleum (oil and gas)' are an important part of the energy picture and further exploration and extraction had the potential for a ''step change'' in economic growth.

[winner69]

Oh no .... a 'step change' reduces the credibility of the report ..... see the buzz words thread

[Mr Tommy]

Below is a quote from a Government energy discussion paper accidently prematurely released over the weekened. I think these will be encouraging words for all potential bidders for PRC. Media reports in Australia last week said BHP plans to spend $12 Billion on buying up and developing new resources so I think we will have a great bidding fight. I pick 95cps.

''For too long now we have not made the most of the wealth hidden in our hills, under the ground, and in our oceans. It is a priority of this Government to responsibly develop those resources.''

"Mineral fuel, particularly coal and petroleum (oil and gas)' are an important part of the energy picture and further exploration and extraction had the potential for a ''step change'' in economic growth.


http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/fossil-fuels-priority-in-energy-report-4098030

[Mr Tommy]

Heres a link to the report.


http://coalactionnetworkaotearoa.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/nz-energy-strategy-nzeecs-v12-21-march-11-1.pdf

[Casa del Energia]

OK just for the fun i will start a competion for best final guess on what PIKE .............

Ever an optimist. $1.15

(BTW - is there someting up - look at NZO's sp)

[stanace]

Ever an optimist. $1.15

(BTW - is there someting up - look at NZO's sp)

I have done a very detailed calculation, and the answer is 58c. LOL, the calculation is as follows; NZO should be at 1.20, this means Pike has to put the value up by say 25c as per today. 25 * 30% NZO holding = 83c. But one would have to discount this with all the nonsense going on, say by 30% = ergo 58c. Easy

[Ian]

One thing to consider is the coking coal price has significantly increased ove the last 6 months

[digger]

One thing to consider is the coking coal price has significantly increased ove the last 6 months

That is all relative.Probably just increased a little in the last 6 months compared to the next 6 months if Japan is going to get up running again.

[Jackson]

That is all relative.Probably just increased a little in the last 6 months compared to the next 6 months if Japan is going to get up running again.

Japan may find itself trying to satisfy its energy requirements without Nuclear power stations which by my reasoning could push coal prices even higher...

[Casa del Energia]

I have done a very detailed calculation, and the answer is 58c. LOL, the calculation is as follows; NZO should be at 1.20, this means Pike has to put the value up by say 25c as per today. 25 * 30% NZO holding = 83c. But one would have to discount this with all the nonsense going on, say by 30% = ergo 58c. Easy

Yes - 58c looks more realistic. It's only my insane over optimism that picks out the rediculous figure of $1.15.

"We are all lying in the gutter, but some of us are gazing up at the stars" - Oscar Wilde.

[Lion]

I'll go for $1.75

Reason: Holding out half a hope that open casting will be allowed (after today's Min Energy announcement) Using Monkey Pom's and my figures, $1.75 is halfway between 60m tons being mined ($3 per share) and 10m tons (=50cps)
Maybe a bit more to allow for the $100m insurance and rising coal prices (I'm an insane optimist too, Casa) but I'll stick with $1.75

And allow the options to extend and trade too, I say!

[Ian]

Has anything changed since PRC made the following statement on 31 March

"The current value of ordinary shares, if any, can be expected to be considerably less than the exercise price for the 2011 options," the company said.

"For that reason the options are 'out of the money' and the directors' view is that holders should allow them to lapse."

If nothing material has changed then you wouldn't expect the sell price to return more than 1.25 per share.

If a price was obtained that resulted in more than 1.25 and some of the option holders 'in the know' exercised their options wouldn't this be a significantly disadvantage to the smaller holders

[root]

At the risk of asking a dumb question, if the market valued PIKE at 88c prior to the explosions, how does it end up being valued higher after the explosions?

[the machine]

At the risk of asking a dumb question, if the market valued PIKE at 88c prior to the explosions, how does it end up being valued higher after the explosions?

only if open cast mining allowed - to enable more coal to be mined and for lower cost

but if open casr mining not allowed then IMO shares are worthless

M

[Hoop]

only if open cast mining allowed - to enable more coal to be mined and for lower cost

but if open casr mining not allowed then IMO shares are worthless

M

Is it possible to have an open cast operation on the top of an mountain range?

[fabs]

In Nov. last year PRC needed between 70 -100 mil. to retire borrowings and working capital.
The co. was on the cusp of finally getting serious production going, as per prospectus.
At the time S/P was around $1.10 + total value 450-500 mil. Arguably very cheap for a business with seemingly huge potential with approx. 6 Bil. $ Worth still in the ground.
I cannot remember anybody chasing after control of such a money spinner getting a hold of 51% at say as little as 300-350 Mil.
So now after the sad events and the consequent uncertainties and considerable potential costs to get this up and running, there is talk of hundreds of dollars even over a billion for the privilege to have another go.
Let’s not forget the coal is by any system of mining 15 -25 years away and still in the ground.
By all means let those who like a punt, speculate to there hearts content, which unless you put money on it is of course free.
Yes there is always the possible miracle, something that had a very disastrous run over 4 years and a serious Tragedy to turn into gold
FOR SOMEBODY

[KS]

At the risk of asking a dumb question, if the market valued PIKE at 88c prior to the explosions, how does it end up being valued higher after the explosions?

For the record, the closing price of 88c on 19 November was already affected by news of the explosion.
Trading had opened at 93c that day. The last week of trading saw trades as high as 98c.

[Mr Tommy]

At the risk of asking a dumb question, if the market valued PIKE at 88c prior to the explosions, how does it end up being valued higher after the explosions?

Its all guesswork, how much is someone prepared to pay?

From the receivers report: http://www.pwc.com/nz/en/pike-river-coal/pike-river-receivers-first-stat-report-13-feb-2011.pdf

Preferential Creditors 3,122,039
Secured Creditors 74,966,084
PMSI Creditors 399,451
Unsecured Creditors 31,934,849
Total creditors claims received $110,422,424

Cash on hand was about $10m

There are 405m shares.

So if the mine sells for $200m, that leaves about $100m after paying the creditors, or 25c per share.
If it sells for $400m, that about 75c per share.

Theres also the $100m insurance claim.

[tony64peter]

From PRC's investment statements 29million tonnes was possible [permitted] for extraction from the two seams leaving around 2/3rds to support the above topography. If open casting is likely then I imagine total extraction will be permitted, being around 90million tonnes. Extraction costs for PRC were around nz$130/ton FOB. Opencasting will be less. Profit of $100/tonne then the buyer could make $9billion over the life of the mine, around $500m/yr profit at 5mt/yr [tall ask]. At 2mt/yr it would put the buying price at around $600m

[stanace]

From PRC's investment statements 29million tonnes was possible [permitted] for extraction from the two seams leaving around 2/3rds to support the above topography. If open casting is likely then I imagine total extraction will be permitted, being around 90million tonnes. Extraction costs for PRC were around nz$130/ton FOB. Opencasting will be less. Profit of $100/tonne then the buyer could make $9billion over the life of the mine, around $500m/yr profit
Thats pretty impressive. But can they sell it without knowing if open cast is going to be allowed? I might have to redo my calculations, $500 million would be a steal.

[tim23]

For the record, the closing price of 88c on 19 November was already affected by news of the explosion.
Trading had opened at 93c that day. The last week of trading saw trades as high as 98c.

KS I'm not sure if that is really correct, there were some trades that slipped in that were latter withdrawn at about 30c?

[Corporate]

Guys don't get too ahead of yourselves! This is still an underground mine with ALOT of uncertainties, not to mention HUGE red tape to begin mining again.

[Balance]

Guys don't get too ahead of yourselves! This is still an underground mine with ALOT of uncertainties, not to mention HUGE red tap to begin mining again.

Agree with you, Corporate. The buyers are interested because they spy a wounded company and they think they are going to get a bargain.

The NZX should allow trading now in PRC - the market wants some action and a price will be determined by the opposing views out there.

Call it 2 cents and one can buy 250,000 of the little puppies for $5,000. If it goes anywhere near 25 cents, it's a ten bagger.

Any sellers at 2 cents?

[Lion]

To my surprise, I find myself agreeing with you, Balance.

Trading of PRC shares is the only way to get a fair and honest value for the company.

And extend the options exercise date too!

[Monkey Poms]

In Nov. last year PRC needed between 70 -100 mil. to retire borrowings and working capital.
The co. was on the cusp of finally getting serious production going, as per prospectus.
At the time S/P was around $1.10 + total value 450-500 mil. Arguably very cheap for a business with seemingly huge potential with approx. 6 Bil. $ Worth still in the ground.
I cannot remember anybody chasing after control of such a money spinner getting a hold of 51% at say as little as 300-350 Mil.
So now after the sad events and the consequent uncertainties and considerable potential costs to get this up and running, there is talk of hundreds of dollars even over a billion for the privilege to have another go.
Let’s not forget the coal is by any system of mining 15 -25 years away and still in the ground.
By all means let those who like a punt, speculate to there hearts content, which unless you put money on it is of course free.
Yes there is always the possible miracle, something that had a very disastrous run over 4 years and a serious Tragedy to turn into gold
FOR SOMEBODY

Good point Fabs, unfortunatley for Pikers the smartest guys in the room were the Indians.
NZOG 29.4%
Gujarat 7.1%
Saurashtra 5.5%
-----------------------------
combined 42.00 % of total shareholding of Pike

Fabs, with the combined share holding of 42% in Pike, this would have made it very difficult for any company to try and gain a stake of 51% of the total shares in Pike.

You have got to take your hats off to the Indians as, for a small stake in Pike, they obtained a coal purchase contract which, if it stood today, would give them large discounts if the coal came out at 4% ash because the contract parameters set were too low. The new owners of Pike would whip the present contract off the table as it is very much a seller's market for this quality
of coal. It has been that way for a long time now and it looks as if it will be that way for a long time in the future.

Somewhere along the line, the Indians managed to obtain an option agreement with NZOG to purchase their shares should NZOG decide to sell their stake in Pike.

NZOG should have appointed John Wayne, instead of their man Gordon, when negotiating with these experienced and intelligent men.

With the price of coking coal as it stands today, by tearing up the sales coal contract, the new owner will save himself US$72,000,000 on the present method of underground mining and US$240,000,000 over the tonnage should opencast be granted.

I would have no enthusiasm to sell any of my shares at the NZ$1.43 level, my pick in Diggers competition,
if we could achieve permission to opencast.
If the current shareholders could find a way to go forward, I volunteer to take the first plane down there to shred the contract.

Monkey Poms.

[Asterix22]

Does anyone know of any groups of shareholders taking action through legal means perhaps to see if we can get the mine reopened?

I don’t know about you guys but I have a little over 30,000 shares in PRC and don’t want to come out of this with a big fat zero in the end, which is sadly looking very likely.

I don’t have much faith in the NZ system that us little guys will come out of this with anything even if the mine is sold for a decent amount, to much corruption in these matters and lots of money wasting.
The entire thing is one big cock up in my opinion, there is no reason why the mine could not begin operation again and subsequent trading.

All they would need to do is find a new investor or make a public offering to resume work. Repairing the mine and starting work again is in everyone’s best interest, from the shareholders to the workers in that region.

[brucey09]

From the NZ Herald
"While most Government assistance go towards legal fees, wages for company employees such as chief executive Peter Whittall were an ongoing cost, receiver John Fisk said earlier."
As you say - good for some

[shasta]

If Pike's going on the cheap, someone will want the coking coal...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/xstrata-keen-to-grow-in-coking-coal-says-nomuras-cliff/story-e6frg9e6-1226034781697

[Monkey Poms]

I assume the Royal Commission Inquiry will want to interview the DOC employees who needlessly and vastly increased the odds of a mine accident by disallowing ventilation shafts to be drilled on third grade conservation land.
Who will pay the DOC employees legal costs,? Government lawyers will have them prepared for the interview
at YOUR COST.

Monkey Poms.

[minimoke]

I assume the Royal Commission Inquiry will want to interview the DOC employees who needlessly and vastly increased
the odds of a mine accident by disallowing ventilation shafts to be drilled on third grade conservation land.


Monkey Poms.

Intersting comment MP. My money is going on the Commission finding systemic failure within PRC as the major contributor to the deaths.

PRC presumably knew about their ventilation issues - the ones you point the bone towards DOC. If Pike knew then they are responsible for working arrangements around those limitations. That they choose to continue mining with those limitations is Pike responsibility not DOC's.

The Commission is bringing in lots of witnesses. Each employer of those witnesses will generally bear the wage costs. As the employer of DOC we will bear their wage costs. Similarly as the employer of the Commission we are also bearing their wage costs. Had their been no systemic problems there would be no explosion - I think we can fairly point the wage cost bone to PRC.

[J R Ewing]

I assume the Royal Commission Inquiry will want to interview the DOC employees who needlessly and vastly increased the odds of a mine accident by disallowing ventilation shafts to be drilled on third grade conservation land.
Who will pay the DOC employees legal costs,? Government lawyers will have them prepared for the interview
at YOUR COST.

Monkey Poms.

I don't recall NZO flagging this vastly increased risk of a mine accident when the consent was negotiated and the mine designed. If they had, I have no doubt that DOC would have refused to give the consent. It's hard to see what DOC would have to gain by issuing consent for a mine that was known to be dangerous. If the risk of an accident was as high as you allege then it should be NZO and Pike who are held to account for that, not DOC.

[Balance]

2 comments :

1. The coal mine was mismanaged day 1 - that is one of the inevitable findings imo. Look no further than all the delays, costs over-runs, ventilation shaft collapse, graben, wrong equipment and machinery, unrealistic mining schedules and finally, the tragic loss of 29 lives. Be interesting if the Royal Commission trawl through this thread and reflect on how accurate some of the comments and observations have been on PRC management.

2. If 1 proves to be the case, ironically it's good news for PRC shareholders. It means that Pike coal will be mined again - by a half decent outfit run by real mining professionals. Question is how much they will pay to get at potentially US$10 billion of coal.

[manxman]

It will be interesting to see if the commission explores the reason why all the PRC independent directors resigned (to spend more time with their cats?) just prior to the issue of the prospectus.

[Monkey Poms]

I recently spoke to a man who worked for Solid Energy,he told me of a past incident
that occured a few years ago.I have two men working for me with 28 years experience
between them of working in underground mining,when I mentioned the incident to them
their comment was they had never heard of or experienced such a thing.

A miner drilling on or near the coal face, using a heavy drill with a 40 to 50mm drill bit
with only a few centimeters left to complete the task he struck a pocket of gas which
had so much pressure it pushed the drill out of the miner's hand, he could not hold onto the drill.
If the gas was methane the miner and his mates had one lucky escape.

There is not a mine on this planet,whose employees can be certain of covering all of the safety
measures to cover any chain or individual possibilities of problems that may lead
to mining accidents.Not quite the same as sitting on your bum in an office.Mining would
throw up different problems which require men of a certain calibre to solve.

If the situation ever arose whereby planning permission was ever asked from the DOC
from a company in a simular position to Pike, your mining inspectors acting for the government
should tell the DOC bugger the trees tell the company seeking planning permission to mine,
no extra ventilation-safety exit shafts, then no planning consent.
It can be done, something out of ordinary happens ? why take the risk.

I never quite managed to run 100 yards in 10 seconds when I was younger,
I would have managed it if I was the miner who drilled into the gas pocket.

Monkey Poms,

[Ian]

Well Solid Energy has managed to stir up the unsecured creditors, who are now looking to start liquidation proceedings. Even thou the receivers are in the middle of a sale process !
Solid Energy promised to pay the unsecured creditors so I guess they don’t care what the final sale price is as long as it’s sold to Solid Energy

[dsurf]

Solid Energy is making me feel rather sick. They are government owned and are trying to get the assets as cheap as possible. That would be fine apart from the fact that the pike employees & relatives who owned shares also may get less money for there shares at a time when they are likely unemployed. That is not support from the government.

[Ian]

What Solid Energy is saying to the unsecured creditors is give it to us cheap and we will look after you wink wink say no more...

[digger]

TV1 had PRC trading at 20 cents on the 12 -00 news today. Anyone know where that came from as NZX does not have PRC trading?

[Ian]

Since the unsecured creditors are acting on the offer by Solid energy to be paid if it’s sold to SE doesn’t this now form part of the SE offer, which means that SE could put themselves in the situation where they are putting the payment of unsecured creditors ahead of other more secured creditors. Is this even legal ?

If it’s not part of the offer, this means that SE gets no benefit out of paying the unsecured creditors. Does a State owned asset have the right to pay out millions to people for no reason.

[iceman]

An incredibly stupid behaviour from a SOE and this action does nothing other than add more snouts (the liquidator) at the trough. Sadly the contractors have been extremely badly advised as they will find out if/when PRC is sold to a company other than Solid Energy !


Solid Energy is making me feel rather sick. They are government owned and are trying to get the assets as cheap as possible. That would be fine apart from the fact that the pike employees & relatives who owned shares also may get less money for there shares at a time when they are likely unemployed. That is not support from the government.

[kiwitrev]

The application to the Court for a winding up of PRC will change little. In it's wisdom the Court may not order it be liquidated as the Court will not ordinarily issue such an order if the application is about unpaid debts. A quite different process is required for collection of debts. Even so, if PRC is to be wound up, the Receiver continues in office up to the time he realises sufficient funds from sale of assets and NZO as apppointing secured creditor is repaid in full. If a liquidator is already in place the Receiver will pass remaining funds to them. Other secured creditors may now wish to appoint their Receiver to look after their interests. Difficult to understand SE strategy and unsecured creditors actions as nothing changes as regards sale process. In fact SE involvement in latest turn of events could be damaging to their relationship with the Receivers.

[Mr Tommy]

TV1 had PRC trading at 20 cents on the 12 -00 news today. Anyone know where that came from as NZX does not have PRC trading?

Could it be an off market trade?

[digger]

Could it be an off market trade?

Can or will the NZX register an off market trade when the share is suspended? If so then there will quickly become a gray market for the shares. I was not aware that one exists.

[Ian]

Can or will the NZX register an off market trade when the share is suspended? If so then there will quickly become a gray market for the shares. I was not aware that one exists.

It was prob just a mistake from TVNZ

[Ian]

A spokesperson for the receivers, John Fisk, says their work will continue in spite of talk of liquidation and the sales process is unlikely to be concluded until August.

Radio New Zealand understands sale of the mine will be advertised soon and a price large enough to cover the mine's $75 million of debt has been mentioned, but only in preliminary conversations.

[Ian]

scanner is due to be lowered into a bore hole at the Pike River mine on Thursday, to assess conditions inside the mine in which 29 men were killed in explosions last November.

Receiver John Fisk of PricewaterhouseCoopers says efforts were made on Wednesday to lower the scanner into the mine but more work was needed to the drill hole used to access the mine.

Mr Fisk says the scan will proceed on Thursday and it is hoped it will reveal the state of the West Coast mine, how much of it can be salvaged, and clarify the chances of recovering bodies.

He says it will take some time for the pictures to be processed and analysed, and information will be shared first with the men's families.



Copyright © 2011, Radio New Zealand

[Xerof]

digger,

I recall when the NZX stopped trading for two minutes silence for earthquake victims, they forgot to put PRC back into suspension at the re-opening, and trades went through at 20 cents (obviously reversed)

That was the only true insight into where PRC would trade if still listed (albeit only for a few moments)

Maybe thats the number that TVNZ have picked up from somewhere......

[Wiremu]

Don Elder said that "any solution to invest in and work the mine needs to address the unsecured creditors on the West Coast issue as a top priority". Interesting that doesn't consider unsecured creditors not on the West Coast!

It would be interesting to know how he could favour one group of unsecured creditors over another?

[Sideshow Bob]

I really think it is about time started to trade again, we are close to 6 months after.

Does anyone know what is the hold-up, or the crucial point where PRC will start to trade again??

[digger]

I really think it is about time started to trade again, we are close to 6 months after.

Does anyone know what is the hold-up, or the crucial point where PRC will start to trade again??

That is the question. Yesterday i thought it had. Surely for a listed company the market should have its say B4 the company is sold.

[winner69]

That is the question. Yesterday i thought it had. Surely for a listed company the market should have its say B4 the company is sold.

Digger - go back to the original announcemet -


Given the appointment of a Receiver, disclosure of potentially material
information about PRC is no longer under the control of the company, but is under the control of the Receiver who has no contractual relationship to NZX.

Accordingly, there is a risk that an equally informed market in PRC securities is not possible at this stage

Speculation etc from uninformed people (like posters on Sharetrader) is not 'disclosure' ... and trading in PRC shares is the last thing the receiver is worried about, probably not even on his agenda

Get the picture - probably will never trade on the NZX again

[Lizard]

I really think it is about time started to trade again, we are close to 6 months after.

Does anyone know what is the hold-up, or the crucial point where PRC will start to trade again??

Personally, I would be surprised if it ever trades again unless the receivers leave them with enough post-sale cash to maintain a shell company. More than $110m ahead of the queue for sale proceeds and the buyer would likely need a larger sum than that to rehab the mine. Receivers are giving the impression they will be happy to sell for enough to repay secured creditors - and after that, I am guessing unsecured creditors might get to choose between liquidation or taking/selling a significant equity position in a shell.

However, receivers left it open in the Feb report, so perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic:

The receivers are cognisant of the position of shareholders of the Company and the rights that attach to their ownership of shares in the Company.

Trading in shares in the Company has been suspended on both the New Zealand and Australian stock exchanges (NZSX and ASX) since the first explosion in the mine on 19 November 2010. This was as a result of decisions made by the Directors of the Company in consultation with the respective Stock Exchanges.

Since the commencement of the receivership, we have been in consultation with both Exchanges to determine the obligations the Company has in regard to maintaining the suspension. At this stage it is too early to ascertain when or whether the suspension of the listings will be lifted or trading in the shares may resume or whether the Company may be de-listed from one or more Stock Exchanges.

The receivers also make no estimate whatsoever as to any value the shares of the Company may have either at the current time or at a future date should the suspension be lifted. There are obviously a number of matters that need to be resolved around the future of the Company, its assets and operations before any consideration can be made as to a resumption of Stock Exchange trading in the shares.

It is likely that whilst we may address the position of shareholders in future receivers' reports, any formal communication to shareholders will be directly to shareholders and / or through the normal communication requirements of the stock exchanges.

[dsurf]

I think anyone with a financial interest in PRC or NZO has a right to know the reasons why trading is suspended. PRC pay for the privilege and I thought the NZX was meant to "keep the market informed". So I suggest emailing & phoning to find out. Contact details below.

NZX Limited
Level 2, NZX Centre
11 Cable Street
PO Box 2959
DX: SP23501
Wellington, New Zealand
Telephone:+64 4 472 7599
Facsimile: +64 4 496 2893
Email: info@nzx.com

Other Contacts
Client and Market Services (CMS)
T: +64 4 496 2853
F: +64 4 473 1470
E: cms@nzx.com

Contact regarding:
• Listed company enquiries

I also suggest it may make an interesting story for the business section of the Weekend Herald, ie another side to the tragedy as unemployed PRC workers are unable to sell there share cos of big bad NZX. Anyone got any Herald contacts

[winner69]

I think anyone with a financial interest in PRC or NZO has a right to know the reasons why trading is suspended. PRC pay for the privilege and I thought the NZX was meant to "keep the market informed". So I suggest emailing & phoning to find out. Contact details below.

NZX Limited
Level 2, NZX Centre
11 Cable Street
PO Box 2959
DX: SP23501
Wellington, New Zealand
Telephone:+64 4 472 7599
Facsimile: +64 4 496 2893
Email: info@nzx.com

Other Contacts
Client and Market Services (CMS)
T: +64 4 496 2853
F: +64 4 473 1470
E: cms@nzx.com

Contact regarding:
• Listed company enquiries

I also suggest it may make an interesting story for the business section of the Weekend Herald, ie another side to the tragedy as unemployed PRC workers are unable to sell there share cos of big bad NZX. Anyone got any Herald contacts

Give it a try but the answer will be that the Receiver has no contractural relationship with the NZX ... and who is running the ship anyway

Keeping the market informed is the responsibility of the company - not the NZX

[Lizard]

What are the precedents for shares trading while the company was in receivership? I have a vague memory there may have been at least one that did (can't recall though), but in general, I would have thought most never made it back. If can find some that did then I would have thought could genuinely ask NZX what the guidelines are in determining whether shares should remain in suspension in these circumstances.

[Balance]

What are the precedents for shares trading while the company was in receivership? I have a vague memory there may have been at least one that did (can't recall though), but in general, I would have thought most never made it back. If can find some that did then I would have thought could genuinely ask NZX what the guidelines are in determining whether shares should remain in suspension in these circumstances.

Try Smith City and Hellabys?

[percy]

Smiths City and Renouf Corp when delisted [and SCY in receivership] you were able to trade/transfer shares off market.what you had to watch /check out was that the share registry would action transfers.I always thought if the companies were prepared to pay the share registry it had a chance of being relisted.

[Lizard]

Try Smith City and Hellabys?
Fairly ancient examples! Anything during the period of the current listing rules might make for a better example to raise with NZX. Pretty sure something did in the past 5 years, as was surprised at the time, but can't remember which one.

[Hoop]

Fairly ancient examples! Anything during the period of the current listing rules might make for a better example to raise with NZX. Pretty sure something did in the past 5 years, as was surprised at the time, but can't remember which one.
Yeah..Its annoying me now as I can't remember either....I keep thinking it was it a finance company or part of a Finance company group. Dominion Finance first sprung to mind with stock at 1cent but I don't think it traded under receivership...I know Dorchester Paacific thought about receivership and valuing their shares under receivership at 19 cents with a view to trade itself out of receivership ...However my intentions turn elsewhere at that time and I do not know the DPC outcome ...did it ever go into receivership at any stage before Bynes took it over?

[Lizard]

Yeah..Its annoying me now as I can't remember either....I keep thinking it was it a finance company or part of a Finance company group. Dominion Finance first sprung to mind with stock at 1cent but I don't think it traded under receivership...I know Dorchester Paacific thought about receivership and valuing their shares under receivership at 19 cents with a view to trade itself out of receivership ...However my intentions turn elsewhere at that time and I do not know the DPC outcome ...did it ever go into receivership at any stage before Bynes took it over?

Might have been FTX - although only very briefly... here is what the NZX said at the time the shares were suspended a day later:

The receiver of FTX applied for a trading halt in FTX securities just prior to market closure on Friday afternoon. NZX does not consider that receivership, in and of itself, is sufficient grounds for a trading halt to be applied. However, in this instance the receiver has confirmed that it will not be paying FTX's share registrar, who has therefore suspended FTX registry functions with the effect that settlement of trades in FTX securities cannot be effected. Because of this, NZX has no choice but to suspend FTX securities until such time as trades are able to be settled.

Maybe a shareholder can go to the receivers and ask why the shares are not trading given that receivership "in and of itself" has been previously stated by the NZX to be insufficient reason?

[blockhead]

Blimey, nearly time to get those options converted, possibly won't be a rush though.

[Monkey Poms]

I thought that it would have been a good idea to have hired a helicopter,together with some Pikers to share the costs, and take a look at the 6000 metre stretch of exposed Brunner and Paparoa coal seams exposed as outcrop, running from north to south on the west side of the Pike mine. Have any Pikers ever seen this spectacle from the air or by tramping the area.?
Don't think i'll ever get the chance, take a look at the charges incurred by the police for hiring helicopters during the rescue attempt.

Monkey Poms,
http://www.police.govt.nz/operation_pike/costs#press_releases

[Hoop]

Media and the public give praise to these brave great rescuers

Yes MP the bills are now starting to roll in and huge they will be with nice margins as these people are specialists and don't come cheap.

A Humanitarian effort ..Hmmmmmm??

Its amazing really .... I asked a few people who are going to pay these expenses..Insurance companies, Police, Government (tax payer)... but none said the shareholders.

[Pumice]

hmmmm
From: Stuff.co.nz

LATEST: A fully-clothed body has been identified inside the Pike River mine, where 29 workers were killed, and there is evidence they may have survived the first blast.

NZPA understands results from police laser scans of the mine taken in February and sent to Australia for analysis have revealed a body within the mine.

Pike River Coal receiver John Fisk said he and family were notified of the discovery yesterday.

Family spokesman Bernie Monk told Newstalk ZB this morning that families were given the information at a meeting with police last night.

He also told ZB there was some evidence that the rescue boxes in the mine had been opened. This suggests the miners would have survived the first blast on November 19 last year.

[digger]

hmmmm
From: Stuff.co.nz

LATEST: A fully-clothed body has been identified inside the Pike River mine, where 29 workers were killed, and there is evidence they may have survived the first blast.

NZPA understands results from police laser scans of the mine taken in February and sent to Australia for analysis have revealed a body within the mine.

Pike River Coal receiver John Fisk said he and family were notified of the discovery yesterday.

Family spokesman Bernie Monk told Newstalk ZB this morning that families were given the information at a meeting with police last night.

He also told ZB there was some evidence that the rescue boxes in the mine had been opened. This suggests the miners would have survived the first blast on November 19 last year.

I suspect no poster or lurker has any idea how revolting and disgusting i find this whole affair regarding the non resuce of the 29 miners. \
As i have said on many occasions i come from a large mining family and grew up in that environment. In the mid 50's in Canada and prior to legal correct world my father did a solo rescue of three miners after managment said it was riskey to do so and would not offically send anyone down on that operation.But back in thoses days other miners were allowed to do so themselves at there own risk. He brought out two miners and the third was already dead,who was not retreaved until some time later.
I found it revolting and disgusting that the police acting on current legal prior instructions took the safe option and disallowed a rescue in this case.The legal point i find so disgusting is that any authority that OK's a rescue is held responsible for the rescures.The legality dose not balance this out against the positives of saveing any miners.The revolting part comes from the fact that it is this way as the laywers that wrote up the legal requirements do not every see themselves in need of any such resuce.
I will do what i can in the upcoming elections to ram home this message.But to be succesfull i will need some help.

[blockhead]

It gets no easier for the families does it ??

I really feel for them

[Paint it Black]

I hope Gary The Commander is not still saying his lack of gumption and leadership was vindicated. Rereading the posts on the 21/11/10 is sickening as we are now seeing many of us were so right - those guys could possibly have been saved. I hope the Royal Commission now does the right thing and has a very close look at the Polices' involvement in the 'rescue' . I'm with you Digger - words can't describe the feelings the families must now have.

[Mr Tommy]

Whats the big rush to flick Pike off by the end of August?
Here we have the receiver today saying he wants a contract signed by August, and in another story that it could be entered "in months".
So why not put off the sale process until its been re-entered?

Todays stuff story...

Receivers of Pike River Coal Company hope to have the sale of the mine largely resolved by the beginning of August bar any Government and regulatory approvals.
The deadline for expressions of interest in buying the mine is Thursday.
The West Coast underground mine was placed in receivership late last year several weeks after deadly mine explosions that claimed the lives of 29 miners and contractors.
Receiver John Fisk, of PricewaterhouseCoopers, has been contacted by more than 30 interested parties since the mine was put up for sale a month ago, but it remains to be seen how many translate into more formal expressions of interest.
Fisk said yesterday parties who expressed definite interest in a purchase had to sign confidentiality agreements to move to the next stage of carrying out "due diligence" on the company where they would be given access to a "data room" of information about the company and its business. He expected the first due diligence process would take about four weeks.
From that the interested parties would prepare indicative bids which are not binding.
The receivers would select a few who would be asked to go through to a final bidding stage.
"The end game is we would like to have contracts agreed (even) if they are subject to final consent from government authorities by the beginning of August."

And from todays herald...

Grey District Mayor Tony Kokshoorn had said he understood a staged re-entry into the mine could begin in three weeks.
Families' anxiety levels had "gone through the roof again", he said, after the news of the footage.
However John Fisk, of receivers PricewaterhouseCoopers, said it would be longer. The mine had not yet been completely sealed and would not be stable if oxygen was still entering, he said.
"Once that is completed and we know that most of the mine is in a state and we have sign-off from Mines Rescue that it is appropriate to attempt a re-entry, then we will look at re-entry," he said.
"But in terms of the timing, to do that, it's more like months rather than weeks and we just don't know what we might find out in the meantime which may affect any timetable."
The mine was inert but fuel-rich, he said.

[BigBob]

SOLIDE
05/05/2011 14:01
ASSET

REL: 1401 HRS Solid Energy New Zealand Limited

ASSET: SOLIDE: Solid Energy seeks to acquire Pike River assets

5 May 2011

Solid Energy has today submitted to the Pike River receivers an expression of
interest to acquire the assets of Pike River Coal's West Coast mine.

Solid Energy Chief Operating Officer, Barry Bragg, says Solid Energy has a
natural interest in Pike River Coal given its long history and experience of
coal mining on the West Coast. "We believe we have the knowledge, experience
and track record to mine the resource safely and economically.

"Through our long-term agreements with KiwiRail and Lyttelton Port of
Christchurch we have the capability to transport the coal from the West Coast
to the port for export. We also have an agreement in place to rail coal from
the Pike River mine to Lyttelton, which was put on hold following the
explosion at the mine last November.

Solid Energy recently leased the land at the Pike River rail loadout at
Ikamatua to complement its development projects in the Reefton and Greymouth
area (as it is the only site locally which can quickly load longer trains and
provide additional stockpile capacity).

"We believe Solid Energy is uniquely positioned to develop and implement a
sound mine management plan that would allow the mine to be successfully
operated, but we know that there is no short term fix to get the mine up and
running again," says Mr Bragg. "It will take a long-term commitment of
considerable resources and capital over several years, as well as working
with key parties including the families of those who died in the mine and the
West Coast community.

"Solid Energy remains committed to recovering the bodies of the 29 miners, if
possible, and to address the situation of the unsecured West Coast creditors.
We expect that any company seeking to acquire the assets should be held to
the same expectations. The worst that could happen for the families and the
West Coast is that a speculator acquires the assets and banks them in their
resource portfolio. That really would be the worst possible outcome for
everyone." Mr Bragg says.

"While Solid Energy is keen to acquire the Pike River assets, we are cautious
about the prospect as we don't believe the resource and its quality are
characterised, or the geology understood, to anywhere near the level required
in these types of challenging conditions, even in the areas that have been
mined. There was also considerable damage to the mine from the explosions so
we also have doubts about how much of the existing infrastructure will be
useable.

"However, we are keen to work with the receivers of Pike River Coal to see if
an acceptable proposal can be put together for Solid Energy to acquire the
mine and bring it back into safe production as soon as possible so that it
can once again provide jobs and contribute to the West Coast economy."
End CA:00208738 For:SOLIDE Type:ASSET Time:2011-05-05 14:01:50

[Mr Tommy]

Solid Energys trying to get a bargain?

Solid Energy also indicated it could be years before the Pike River resource was exploited and that it was unlikely much of the current underground mine would be used, suggesting it hopes to make a low-ball offer, based on the prospects of the resource rather than the investment to date.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/4966662/Solid-Energy-offers-Pike-River-commitments

[tony64peter]

Buyer of PRC will be known by August. 30 expressions of interest the receiver has said.

http://www.miningaustralia.com.au/news/pike-river-buyer-to-be-decided-by-august?utm_source=20110503&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletters

[Snapper]

A whole lot of words from Solid Energy but as far as the creditors are concerned it's dollars on the table that counts.

[Monkey Poms]

Maybe an interesting scenario is starting to develop.

My UK broker sent a valuation report for my company's share portfolio. The value assigned
to the Pike River Coal shares at 31st March was NZ$ 0.26.5 cents per share, based on after market unofficial share trading.
The potential for a company intending to make a serious bid for Pike, and also purchase
after market shares at a low price, could be interesting.
Payment of the insurance claim in full would leave a debt to creditors of approx NZ$20m plus receivers fee.

A bid of NZ$100m, take out NZ$30m to cover the remaining creditors including the receivers fee,
would leave Pike shareholders with about NZ$0.17 cents per share.
NZ$ 200m bid = + NZ$ 0,25 = 0.42 cents per share
NZ$ 300m bid = + 0.67 '' '' ''
NZ$ 400m bid = + 0.92 '' '' ''
NZ$ 500m bid = + 1.17 '' '' ''
NZ$ 600m bid = + NZ$ 1.42 per share.

It will not happen, but for the purpose of this exercise, let's assume a bidder for Pike
snaps up all the shares in Pike for $ 0.265 cents per share - total outlay NZ$ 107,461.192.
This bidder for Pike could easily outbid his rivals, should he bid a billion it does not matter
at the end of the day all he would pay, would be the price he paid for the shares $107,461,192.
The balance would be returned to him by the receiver after payment of the creditors.
I am sure those clever Indians would think of this.

Time for the NZSX to allow Pike shares to be traded through the official channels.

Hope that makes sense. I was interrupted during this post, by a bout of laughter.
No not Big Bobs post - Solid Energy trying to talk the price down again.
My mate called, said he was stranded on the roof of his house, could I go and
put back the ladders which had blown down, said he did not want to ask anyone
passing by as it would make him look stupid.

Monkey poms.

[fabs]

S/E clearly in the drivers seat to pick up a bargain, is there not also an agreement between PRC & SE regarding rail space access, if so does that automatically pass on to a prospector buyer or do they have to renegotiate with S/E?

[BigBob]

Time for the NZSX to allow Pike shares to be traded through the official channels.


On a somewhat related note, does anyone know whether the requirement of PRC to keep the market fully informed is somehow suspended just because their shares are? I would have thought that they still need to inform the market of anything substantial, such as running a campaign to sell the company!!

I know it is all in the media, but still shouldn't the company put out market releases via the NZX too...?

[oldowl]

NOW READ THIS

Suitor Solid Energy undermining Pike River's value,
says receiver
Last updated 05:00 07/05/2011
Government-owned coal miner Solid Energy is accused of playing "a clear commercial game" to sink the
value of the Pike River Coal mine, which it wants to buy.
In a High Court action sought against the state-owned enterprise and two West Coast land owners,
Pricewaterhouse Coopers receiver John Fisk said "Pike's creditors will likely suffer significant detriment" if
Solid Energy's takeover of leases over crucial coalhandling facilities at Ikamatua, near Greymouth, are
allowed to stand.
"Its actions appear to be an attempt to place Solid Energy in a better commercial position than other
prospective purchase of the mine by taking over a key infrastructure asset, making the sale process more
complex and uncertain and adding a value-destructive element."
Solid Energy has rejected the allegations in the receiver's affidavit but said it couldn't respond in detail as
the matter was to come before the court.
Mr Fisk's affidavit cites a March 20 statement by Solid Energy's chief executive, Don Elder, saying "any
solution to invest in and work the mine must address the interests of the unsecured creditors on the West
Coast as a top priority."
"However," the affidavit says, "Solid Energy's actions in obtaining leases over the land which holds key
infrastructure for the mine, at the expense of Pike, is in direct contrast to that statement.
In a statement on the Thursday deadline for expressions of interest to the receivers, Solid Energy said it
was committed to recovering the bodies of the 29 men and "if possible to address the situation of the
unsecured West Coast creditors."
"We expect that any company seeking to acquire the assets should be held to the same expectations," said
Solid's chief operating officer Barry Bragg. "The worst that could happen for the families and the West
Coast is that a speculator acquires the assets and banks them in their resource portfolio."
He said it was a matter of record that since the tragic explosions at the Pike River Mine, Solid Energy has
committed staff, equipment and other resources to assist the recovery effort and has also supported Pike
River Coal by selling some coal on its behalf just before the company went into receivership.
However, the receiver's affidavit says the coal-handling facilities stoush is just the latest in a string of
actions that have made life more difficult for the Pike receivers, including alleged under-payment for coal
sold on Pike's behalf by Solid.
The receiver alleges Solid Energy's other actions include:
*"onerous penalties Solid Energy has looked to crystallise in respect of the Coal Transportation Agreement
with Pike", under which Solid was to allow Pike to send up to one million tonnes of coal by rail to Lyttelton
annually. Solid Energy effectively controls the rail links between the West Coast coalfields and Lyttelton;
*"initial rejection of Pike's force majeure under the CTA and attempt to cancel the CTA; and
*"a material variance in the actual versus market prices Pike has received for coal it has sold to Solid
Energy which remains unexplained."
PATTRICK SMELLIE
Solid Energy's corporate communications director, Vicki Blyth,said the company had pursued the Ikamatua
coalhandling facilities "opportunistically", as it represented the only site in the area where longer trains could
be loaded and would be useful for additional stockpiling.
In its Thursday statement, the company said it had "recently leased the land at the Pike River rail loadout at
Ikamatua to complement its development projects in the Reefton and Greymouth area."
Mr Fisk's affidavit details the receiver's efforts to keep paying rent on leased, disused farmland where Pike
had spent $7 million on new facilities and access roads.
"The best value for Pike will be in its ability to sell the Ikamatua facility as a working operation to the
successful purchase as part of the overall sale package," in order to "extract the best value for the company
and its creditors."
It says one of the two lessors, O'Malley Farming, had counter-signed documents on January 31 varying the
lease to allow the receiver to keep paying the $50,000 annual ground rent, which is currently paid up to
June 16.
Trustees of the R W Brown Family Trust, which also owned part of the Ikamatua land, did not respond to
the receivers, but sought on March 21 to cancel its lease with Pike, and an identical cancellation came that
day from O'Malley Farming.
"On 1 April 2011, the receivers were informed by solicitors acting for O'Malley Farming and the Trust that
they had entered into new leases with Solid Energy on substantially similar terms."
While clearly a bidder for the whole Pike operation, Solid had never indicated it had "specific interests in the
Ikamatua Facility or that it wished enter into arrangements for it outside of a full purchase of the mine and
associated assets."
The receivers want the O'Malley cancellation declared void, and to overturn the Trust's cancellation on
grounds that the Pike receivership did not constitute grounds for breaking the lease.
- BusinessDesk

[fabs]

As pointed out on this forum less than 24 hrs earlier, any potential deal requires inclusion and assurance of same condition access to transport arrangements with SE.
Could drag out into a long and costly legal battle scaring away genuine bidders
BTW. About 12 months ago I commented that SE was probably for some time silently waiting and watching the ongoing struggle and set backs of PRC.
Also not so long ago explained that it will be a cash cow for some, lets just hope somehow by some miracle it will be for PRC & NZO S/H.

[winner69]

Solid Energy playing the game hard .... isn't that what business competition is all about

What else would one expect of Solid Energy .... roll over and purr loudly and then fron up with zillions ... I think (and hope) not

Good on them

[fabs]

Yup could have done with a dose of that from NZO & PRC management.

[Monkey Poms]

A short extract from Oldowl post ( 8547 )

However, the receiver's affidavit says the coal-handling facilities stoush is just the latest in a string of
actions that have made life more difficult for the Pike receivers, including alleged under-payment for coal
sold on Pike's behalf by Solid.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Does this have anything to do with the estimated 20k to 25k tonnes of coal sold to SE, prior to the 5k tonnes of coal on stock at the time of the receiver's appointment, discussed by this forum around the 17/2/2011?

We were never told of the actual tonnage or the sale price.
Should the receiver's statement refer to missing tonnage, rather than disputed tonnages of coal
then the best course of action would be to involve the Police who should easily resolve the matter.
Every truck of coal leaving the mine site ( should ) have been issued with a weighbridge ticket,
If not, the receiver has a problem.
Anyone found guilty of misdemeanors in this matter should be clapped in irons and sent to an Australian penal colony. What? They don't have such places anymore? Well then, send them to a country which shoots looters.


Monkey Poms.

[Mr Tommy]

Bye Bye Options:


NZX has been advised that:

No PRCOA Options were exercised by holders on or before the Option Expiry
Date (24 April 2011); and?
All PRCOA Options lapsed automatically at 5.00pm on 24 April 2011 (the Option
Expiry Date).

PRCOA remains in a trading halt and will be removed form the NZSX at the
close of business today (10 May 2011).

[blockhead]

Bye bye $8,500 for Blocky, and thats only the options !!

[Mr Tommy]

Receivers for Pike River Coal's mine assets say they have received expressions of interest from "a number of parties", as at last Thursday's deadline.

"I'm not disclosing numbers now that we are into the sales process," said John Fisk of PricewaterhouseCoopers, which is acting as receiver for the company. The company was put into receivership after a deadly series of explosions last November that claimed 29 lives.

"We're pleased with the level of interest," Fisk said.

So far, only state-owned coal miner Solid Energy has publicly expressed its interest in buying the Pike River assets, although it has warned it could be years before a new mining plan is agreed and it's unclear how much, if any, of the original mine's tunnels and equipment could be reused.

Relations between Solid Energy and the receivers have soured, with Fisk lodging an affidavit in late April alleging that Solid Energy's actions in gaining leases on coal handling facilities at Ikamatua threaten to lower the value of the Pike River assets for any other bidder.

Fisk declined to comment further on the claim against Solid Energy and the two leaseholders named in the affidavit.

[Monkey Poms]

I think your prime minister handles himself well in front of the press and is a decent sort of a man.
He is now trying to put some distance between the government and SE.

( I wonder what he thinks of the recent SE actions in private. )
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Key sidesteps allegations on Solid Energy’s Pike bid tactics
article - BusinessDesk


By Pattrick Smellie

May 9 (BusinessDesk) –Solid Energy Ltd.’s tactics in bidding for the Pike River Coal mine assets are a commercial matter and not for government involvement, despite allegations the state-owned coal miner is trying to undermine Pike's value before a sale by receivers, says Prime Minister John Key.

“That is a commercial matter and we expect that SOEs will act in a professional and commercial way,” he said at his post-Cabinet press conference.

The Pike River receiver, John Fisk of PricewaterhouseCoopers, has sought to serve proceedings against Solid Energy and two land-owners who have cancelled leases on coal-handling facilities at Ikamatua in favour of leasing the facilities to Solid Energy.

Monkey Poms,

A lesson in life, lie down with dogs and you get up with fleas.

[Balance]

Looks like the finger-pointing has begun ........

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10726144

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5037996/Union-boss-Pike-River-sign-of-anti-worker-times

I have never had any doubts that PRC was grossly mismanaged - all the delays, costs over-runs, ventilation shaft collapse (first sure sign that they knew not what they were doing), hitting the graben, misiing deadline after deadline and finally, the explosion.

Ironically, it means that with proper management, a lot of value can be extracted from PRC - proper engineering, proper ventilation, proper mining techniques, proper safety procedures and above all, proper funding.

Proper funding is where PRC management has failed miserably - rights issue after rights issue, placement followed by placement. Given the worth of the coal reserve, what's an extra $200m day one to extract $6 billion worth of coal?

Question is whether or not the receivers know how to extract that value.

[Sideshow Bob]

The receivers will know how to value Balance....for themselves!!

[Balance]

But is it better to have tried and have another 16 people dead than never having tried at all??

This is all pointless debate now, as 29 men are dead. I belive that they were probably dead after the initial blast and the police did the right thing. Imagine the witch hunt if they had sent the mine rescue in and the thing blew up??

Hopefully the inquiry is not a snow job and all the details come out.

Indications are that a few of the miners were actually alive. So much for the police personnel on this rescue mission. Sad, very sad.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/4935973/Body-seen-in-Pike-River-mine

Excerpt : "Images also show a firefighting box had been opened, police said. This suggests some of the 29 miners might have survived the first blast on November 19 last year."

[Hoop]

"However, she said the shareholders would walk away "scot-free" without having to account for the deaths and debt." ...Quote Helen Kelly (Council of Trade Unions head).

[winner69]

"However, she said the shareholders would walk away "scot-free" without having to account for the deaths and debt." ...Quote Helen Kelly (Council of Trade Unions head).

"An easy deduction my dear Watson..Helen is jealous she didn't buy PRC shares"....Sherlock Holmes.

Good moral question .... should shareholders shoulder any responsible / guilt for the deaths of their employees .... or is it all the directors and management fault and nothing to do with shareholders

Tony K did say a while ago the shareholders should stump up with a few extra million to get the bodies out seeing the reciever has run out of cash .... or is that what the limited means in the company's name!

[digger]

Good moral question .... should shareholders shoulder any responsible / guilt for the deaths of their employees .... or is it all the directors and management fault and nothing to do with shareholders

Tony K did say a while ago the shareholders should stump up with a few extra million to get the bodies out seeing the reciever has run out of cash .... or is that what the limited means in the company's name!

The police should front up with the cash to get the bodies out. It was police action or should i say inaction that turned miners still alive awaiting help into corpses.
I can say with certainty that there would have been many corpses in Canada back in the 50,and 60 that were on seperate occasions saved by my father and brothers. But that was back in the simple days when miners decided the rescue and no one had ever heard of the police getting involved.
That is my emotive 2 cents worth which is certainly 2 cents more value than the non rescue of the pike miners.

[Hoop]

Good moral question .... should shareholders shoulder any responsible / guilt for the deaths of their employees .... or is it all the directors and management fault and nothing to do with shareholders

Tony K did say a while ago the shareholders should stump up with a few extra million to get the bodies out seeing the reciever has run out of cash .... or is that what the limited means in the company's name!

From http://www.lawlink.co.nz/articles.php?articleid=121

Articles

Personal Liability - No Special Immunity For Directors

Summer 2008
Some judges and academic commentators have suggested that company law principles of limited liability (shareholders are generally only liable for the money owed to the company for their shares) and separate corporate personality (the company as a legal person) give special protection to directors. However, recent decisions of the High Court, the Court of Appeal and the United Kingdom House of Lords have all emphasised that a person's status as a director is irrelevant in terms of the general law of civil liability.
Who does limited liability protect?

The risk of civil liability for directors has little to do with company law. Company directors have no more protection from liability than anyone else when they commit civil wrongs such as deceit, negligence, trespass, or breach of intellectual property rights in the course of company business.
Limited liability is intended to protect shareholders of a company. Being a shareholder does not in itself give rise to a shareholder having any liability for a company’s obligations to its creditors. Shareholders' liability to the company also has defined limits. Limited liability is not intended for the protection of directors.
Most of the cases dealing with director liability in New Zealand have involved small companies with one or two shareholders who are also directors. This is not surprising, as over 85% of New Zealand companies have two or less shareholders, who are generally also their company’s directors. But the personal liability of these directors is not lessened by their also being shareholders.
What is a company?

Section 15 of the Companies Act 1993 declares that a company is a legal entity in its own right separate from its shareholders (a ‘separate corporate personality’). A company's separate legal personality is created through the set of rules found in the Companies Act. This means that whenever directors go about company business they act as agents of the company. This agency is the same as if the directors concerned were acting on behalf of an absentee business owner who had appointed them to manage their business.
As agents of the company, directors can be held personally liable for civil wrongs that they commit in the course of company business. The company will also be liable since the law attributes the agents' actions to the company. Victims of directors' wrongful acts may in most circumstances sue the director or the company, or both.
When are directors personally liable?

Liability from any civil wrong depends on the elements of the wrong. If directors say or do things that amount to the elements of a wrong they can be held personally liable. Recent cases have provided some explanation.
Statements

A company director lied when making representations on behalf of his company, which was subsequently sued for deceit. The director’s representation and his knowledge were attributed to his company, but he remained personally liable since he was the person who lied (Standard Charter Bank v Pakistan National Shipping Corporation (No 2) [2003] 1 AC 959).
By comparison, if directors make negligent misstatements the potential for personal liability is less than for deceit which involves a deliberate statement. The law in regard to negligent misstatements requires that the person making the statements has assumed personal responsibility for the accuracy of their words.
A director preparing financial projections for a franchise that Natural Life Health Foods Ltd was selling made negligent misstatements. The buyers suffered financial loss when the franchise performed much worse than projected, and they sued both the company and the director. After the company was wound up the buyers proceeded against the director alone. In this case the director was not liable because he had not assumed personal responsibility to the plaintiffs since he had had no personal contact with them and all the projections were made in the company's name (Williams v Natural Life Health Foods Ltd [1998] 1 WLR 830 (HL)).
Intellectual property rights

In a case involving a breach of intellectual property rights, a director of a grain exporting company told a prospective buyer of barley seeds where to purchase seeds from an unlicensed supplier. In doing so he interfered with the exclusive legal rights of another company under the Plant Variety Rights Act 1987. His actions were attributed to his company and both he and the company were liable. The Court recognised that the director and his company were each separate legal personalities. However, his status as director did not provide any special immunity from personal liability, and the director’s liability was determined on the same basis as it would have been determined in any other situation where more than one person was involved in the commission of the civil wrong (Winchester International (NZ) Limited & Anor v Cropmark Seeds Limited [2005] NZCA 301, CA 226/04, 5 December 2005).
Negligence

Where a director commits a negligent act (rather than making a negligent misstatement), the law is more complex. If the negligent act results in damage to property, the director’s status as an agent of the company is irrelevant. What matters is whether they owed the victim a duty to take care, and whether the damage was a reasonably foreseeable outcome of the act.
If the loss suffered is purely financial, such as where the value of a transaction has been reduced without any damage to property, then the director’s status as an agent may be relevant. Liability for this type of loss requires an ‘assumption of responsibility’ by those whose actions caused the loss. In such cases liability involves a wide-ranging inquiry into what is fair, just and reasonable (Rolls Royce New Zealand Ltd v Carter Holt Harvey Ltd [2005] 1 NZLR 324 (CA)).
Breach of contract

Where a victim’s financial loss is caused by directors negligently performing their company’s contract, the directors will not be personally liable if the victim knows through, for example, use of the company name on all communications that the directors were acting for the company and not on their own account.
Building

New Zealand law imposes a duty on builders and developers to take care to prevent latent defects when building and developing. If defective construction methods lead to a reduction in the value of a home, directors can be held liable if they were actually involved in the building work, supervision or other aspects of control over the building process.
Building and development companies are frequently liquidated at the completion of a project. Where the company no longer exists or is insolvent, the directors become the targets of defective home owners' legal actions. Cases to date have not provided a clear set of rules to determine when directors will be held personally liable for the defects.
Directing others to commit wrongful acts

Where directors, or any other person, direct or procure wrongful acts they can be liable to the victims for their loss. Again, this basis of liability is not determined by directors' status as directors but by the nature of the wrong that has been directed or procured.
The chairman and managing director of a company agreed, together with the directors of a customer, the terms on which the company would wrongfully deprive a bank of its right to some goods. The bank sued the company and the director for conversion. The managing director's personal involvement in agreeing to the conversion resulted in secondary liability for procuring the wrongful acts (Wat Tat Bank Ltd and Anor v Chan Cheng Kum [1975] AC 507 (PC)). When such a wrong is committed the key determinant of liability is the degree of control exercised by directors over the principal offenders. Whether or not the act is in the ordinary course of the directors’ duties is also a consideration.
The Fair Trading Act 1986

The Fair Trading Act 1986 prohibits misleading and deceptive conduct and false representations made in trade (which includes the conduct of a business or profession). The Act allows the victim of such conduct to bring a legal action against a person who is actually engaged in the conduct. These people are said to have primary liability.
Primary liability under the Fair Trading Act is strict – it is no defence to claim not to know that the conduct was misleading. The only defence available to the director or agent is to show that they were just passing on information. It must be apparent that they were not the source of the information and that they did not personally express or imply any belief in its truth or reliability and were merely passing on for what it was worth (Goldsboro v Walker [1993] 1 NZLR 394).
Secondary liability arises where a person has aided, induced, directed or conspired with others who have contravened the Act. Where a director or agent of a company is liable as a secondary party they have a defence if they can show that they were not knowingly concerned in, or a party to, the contravention by the principal offenders.
The Act applies to people in trade

The Fair Trading Act imposes liability only on people who are in trade. When determining whether a person is in trade, it is the context in which the contravening conduct occurs rather than their status as a trader that matters. Directors who engage in misleading and deceptive conduct in private, non-trading contexts such as where they sell their personal belongings on the internet will not breach the Act. Doing the same thing when acting on behalf of their company will breach the Act, and they can be held personally liable under section 43.
Most cases heard so far have involved companies. Where the company is insolvent the allegations are made against the company agent involved in the contravention. These agents are usually company directors, but some cases have involved employees.
Conclusion

The company form of business ownership is intended to promote the aggregation of capital, freedom of decision-making for company management, and legitimate risk taking. It does not allow the directors of undercapitalised companies to escape liability for wrongful acts that they commit in the course of their business.
Where the wrongs committed involve deliberate acts directors are likely to be held personally liable. However, there is still some legal uncertainty in this area of the law particularly in regard to claims in negligence. The New Zealand Court of Appeal is expected to release a decision in the very near future directly addressing the issue of directors' personal liability for negligence in the leaky building context. This may bring further certainty.
If you have concerns about your potential for personal liability when going about your company's business you should seek advice from your Lawlink lawyer.
© Anderson Lloyd
Email: marie.callander@andersonlloyd.co.nz
Website: www.andersonlloyd.co.nz (http://www.andersonlloyd.co.nz/)

[winner69]

Phew .... shareholders are in the clear ... doesn't even say they should have a conscious or anything about what happens to their employees

Even though in most cases when one buys a share the money doesn't go to the company in some cases like PRC some shareholders cash has gone directly into the company for them to develop something that turned out to be a disaster for 29 at least ..... should these shareholders have a conscious or is capitalism alive and well?

[Hoop]

Phew .... shareholders are in the clear ... doesn't even say they should have a conscious or anything about what happens to their employees

Even though in most cases when one buys a share the money doesn't go to the company in some cases like PRC some shareholders cash has gone directly into the company for them to develop something that turned out to be a disaster for 29 at least ..... should these shareholders have a conscious or is capitalism alive and well?

Should shareholders of Car companies have a conscience for all the road deaths throughout the world?

[troyvdh]

...I really can not believe this....on Friday night...TV3...Im pretty sure ran a story...very very daming re Pike....flaws in safety and protocols.....issues were being ignored.....it was quite alarming.....

Sat ...The Press.....nix....I rang today....nothing much to say....

TV 3 response today....."You should ask them " (other news providers....)....

....It has always been my greatest fear that some folk may have stuffed up......29 lives.....(me $43 k).....

...sad ...really sad.....

what really is going on....


Did anyone else see the broadcast.....

[Hoop]

................"......what really is going on.."....

I have no idea...

However tonight I went outside my comfort zone well and truely and read on-line... Murder at Pike River Mine? (2nd Edition) by Dr Jacob Cohen....WOW!!!.. talk about radicals and Conspiracy theorists + a hatred towards Banks, big Business, and the people at the top... this Cohen guy has to be ranked up there with the best of them....but to his credit (small?), he has researched well.. and there are some rather disturbing facts that should be looked into.


If you are up to a challenge, google it and have a read....

The most amazing thing about this book is that the author does not hold back on who he thinks is to blame..... why he hasn't been sued for libel from at least 30 people ..including John Key, the Police department, and most of the PRC management also amazes me.

Edit: Hmmm..this is interesting..some websites have removed Cohen's Book

[iceman]

Of course shareholders can not be held liable for such a tragic accident, not anymore than shareholders in Sanford if a fisherman (heavens forbid) died onboard one of their vessels or a farmworker working for Farming Systems on a farm in Uruguay. Liability and issues of consience should and will no doubt lie with those paid to oversee such operations, like Managers and Directors. There would be no sharemarkets anywhere if shareholders were liable for every mishap, that unfortunately is a sad part of many risky businesses.


Phew .... shareholders are in the clear ... doesn't even say they should have a conscious or anything about what happens to their employees

Even though in most cases when one buys a share the money doesn't go to the company in some cases like PRC some shareholders cash has gone directly into the company for them to develop something that turned out to be a disaster for 29 at least ..... should these shareholders have a conscious or is capitalism alive and well?

[Robomo]

Should it be found that the gas detectors on the mining machines had been taped over to prevent them from frequently stopping from too much gas would the employees families front up with the cash expended to get the miners out?

[fabs]

NO ROBOMOH
that big mouthed and emotional HELEN KELLY would still imply and insist that the S/Hs & employers should pay for someone to risk there lives to go in premature to get the bodies out and also compensate the families extra for their endless suffering.

[Mr Tommy]

From Herald today ...

Rescuers are to move into the doomed Pike River mine - giving families hope that the bodies of all 29 men will be recovered.
Stabilisation work will begin in the mine tunnel entrance on Monday, the first step in a plan to get into the heart of the coal mine to hopefully retrieve the workers who died after a series of explosions last November.
Families spokesman Bernie Monk said last night that stabilisation work would start on the seam in the main portal next Monday, eventually moving to the rockfall, so the mine would be safe to re-enter.
"At least it's a start," Mr Monk said. "I think having everyone around the table today has brought everything out into the open." It could take until the end of July to get to the rockfall, he said.

OK, so these guys get around a table yesterday, and they are starting next week, possibly getting to the rockfall in July. So why dont the receivers hold off a couple of months, and put some resources into this effort, which will increase the sale price if the tunnel is shown to be fine?

[Hoop]

Breaking News from http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10727622

....Receiver Malcolm Hollis today told Radio New Zealand it would be "difficult, time consuming and expensive" for mines rescuers to get past a rock fall to recover bodies even if the mine was stable.
It was possible the dead miners would never be recovered, he said.

[777]

So can a buyer of the mine extract the coal without any consideration for the bodies?

[Mr Tommy]

So can a buyer of the mine extract the coal without any consideration for the bodies?

Some of the families actually want the bodies left where they are.

[777]

So if you can't extract the coal, in consideration for those families, then the mine has no value.

[troyvdh]

I take it that no one else saw that scathing report about safety standards at Pike.

[pietrade]

[I] I have no idea...

he has researched well.. and there are some rather disturbing facts that should be looked into.


If you are up to a challenge, google it and have a read....
The most amazing thing about this book is that the author does not hold back on who he thinks is to blame..... why he hasn't been sued for libel from at least 30 people ..including John Key, the Police department, and most of the PRC management also amazes me.
Edit: Hmmm..this is interesting..some websites have removed Cohen's Book

WOW!!! I accepted your challenge and sure had my eyes opened. This guy certainly joins enough of the dots to provide a very sinister background to the whole sad event - and his expose of the loss of our hugely rich iron sands (thru abandoning crown ownership of our foreshore & seabed) presents us with a very daunting scenario.
We seem to be heading toward becoming one of the PIIGS

[minimoke]

WOW!!! I accepted your challenge and sure had my eyes opened. This guy certainly joins enough of the dots to provide a very sinister background to the whole sad event - and his expose of the loss of our hugely rich iron sands (thru abandoning crown ownership of our foreshore & seabed) presents us with a very daunting scenario.
We seem to be heading toward becoming one of the PIIGS
Jeez, I started the but anything that starts with One World Government type conspiracy thoeries put me off. Lets see the authors credentials before reading on.

[Hoop]

Jeez, I started the but anything that starts with One World Government type conspiracy thoeries put me off. Lets see the authors credentials before reading on.

:):):):) yes minimoke ..I nearly gave it away myself...If he kept his over the top paranoid personal mental case views out of the book he would've had more reading it.

Have another go minimoke I told you it would be a challenge :):):).

His credentials?? I have no idea...couldn't find much on Google except stuff related to this book. These sort of guys certainly devalue the Dr part in front of the name...eh?

Yep Pietrade..some eye openers. I will be viewing the Foreshore and Seabed Act in a whole different light from now on ...I kept focusing on the Maoris not realising it wasn't them that I should've been focusing on.

I now get the feeling the time is coming to extract mineral wealth from NZ and the Government of the day are slowing moving the obstructions (laws) out of the way in preparation.
So I guess this is a positive for the sale of Pike.
Might even see some NZ mining IPO's in the future..eh?