PRC Pike River Coal

[Monkey Poms]

Originally Posted by Monkey Poms

Well done Neapole11, you have a way with words, it took me six months and pages & pages of scroll to say
the same thing.

Monkey Poms.


And that definitive list of open cast mines in national parks is.............

Minimoke,

I referred to the number of posts I had made over a period of time covering Roa coal's open cast mining in parts of their operation, taking part a
relatively short distance south of Pike in the same Paparoa range of mountains as Pike's, in conservation land and close to a populated area. I have not
mentioned a list of mines that operate in NZ's national parks.

If I have some free time on my next NZ holiday, (just for you I will check out a couple of operations) that could be listed on your definitive list.

Monkey Poms.

[Monkey Poms]

This info is new to me.MP where did you get it from.Are some funds now available to the receiver that were not there yesterday?


Hi Digger, When I noticed $ 3,282,472 coming into the receivers pot,
I thought Devious Don had coughed up and paid for the coal in full
and settled the disputed coal tonnage payment and coal quality issues.
Therefore PWC having the funds or the promise of forthcoming funds
available to hand over to the unsecured creditors, in PWC deal to
stop the creditors application to appoint a liquidator.
Because of Solid Energy’s confidentiality clause with Pike it is difficult
To piece together the make up of the income from coal sales.

Best effort at a guess as to what the $3,282,472 is for.
Solid Energy have bought and paid for app 25,000 tons of coal at the
price of app NZ$131 per tonne = to US$ 111.60 per tonne.
At the time of the purchase the international price for coking coal was around
US$300 FIV.

I previously wrote to PWC regarding this

My question to PWC (Pike’s receiver).

____________________________________________


"Hope you can advise me on the following matter.

During the inquiry Don Elder declared he had purchased approximately 20,000 tons of PRC coal.

I assume he purchased and paid for the coal prior to the PWC appointment as receiver of PRC
on 13 December 2010, 23 days after the first explosion.

PWC's first report signed off on the 13 February 2011, stated that PRC had coal stock of 5,000
tonnes and PWC had sold this 5,000 tons to Solid Energy during the period of 13 December
2010 to 13 February 2011.

PWC's recent six monthly report (second report) covering the period 13 December to 13 June,
stated that "property disposed of since the date of the last report" approximately 5,000 tons of
stock piled coal had been sold.

Can you confirm that:

a) Solid Energy purchased and paid for approximately 20,000 tonne of coal from PRC, prior to the appointment of PWC.

b) PWC sold during the period up to 13 December 2010 approximately 5,000 tonne of coal (PWC first report)

c) PWC disposed of during the period of the PWC second report an additional 5,000 (approximately) tonne of stock piled coal had been sold.

If the above is correct, this would make the total tonnage of PRC coal sold since the first explosion approximately 30,000 tonne of coal.
This would equate with the consensus of opinion formed at the time as to the amount of coal PRC had on stock.

Could you also answer my question below:

1) Receipts for coal as per your second report were $3,282,472. For what tonnage does this payment cover?


The last time I made contact regarding the coal tonnage & coal quality, you replied

"The coal sale matter with Solid Energy is subject to a dispute and may then
become sub judice. Therefore we are unable to provide any information on
this matter. Furthermore, the agreement with Solid Energy for the coal
sale is also subject to a confidentiality clause that prevents us from
discussing the details of that sale. I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful".

PS
I hope that the dispute with Solid Energy has now been successfully resolved to PWCs advantage".

____________________________________________

PWC reply

"Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, for the reasons stated in our earlier correspondence, I
cannot provide full explanations to all your questions. However, I can
advise:
a) Yes, you are correct that this amount was sold prior to the receivership
(but payment had not been received).
b) and c) The receivers were appointed on 13 December 2010, the 5,000 tonnes referred
to in the 13 February 2011 and 13 August 2011 reports is the same 5,000 tonnes
(though I acknowledge that this is not clear from the reports)".

____________________________________________


Conclusion: Pike were stuffed by Solid Energy by about USD$3,500,000 + any tonnage abover 25,000 tonnes which may be in dispute.

Monkey Poms

[minimoke]

Minimoke,

I refered to the number of posts I had made over a period of time covering Roa coal's open cast mining in parts of their operation, taking part a
relatively short distance south of Pike in the same Paparoa range of mountains as Pike's, in conservation land and close to a populated area. I have not
mentioned a list of mines that operate in NZ's national parks.
MP
Roa is on crown coal reserve land. Its not in a national park. And it began mining somewhere around 1910.

I'm not really after a definitive list. If anyone could point to one or two examples the job would have been done by now.

My point, which I am clearly failing to make, is that the opportunity for turning Pike into opencast is nil partly because its reserves are in a national park.

Now you may think a few protestors acting against such a proposal is neither here nor there. But I for one do not want to see the likes of Lucy Lawless and Robyn Malcolm, feared eco warriors and CAGW experts in my media.

Please don't go hunting for mines on national park land on my account. I'm sure you could make much better use of your time. Either way, a list will fail to move me. Just because it has been done is no guarantee that it can be done with Pike.

[brucey09]

Snr Mini
Agreement - over the top rock is too deep.

[J R Ewing]

Monkey Poms,

Neopole posted the following in response to my post that said
"Even after the election, things will get very uncomfortable for the government if they want to start open cast mining in National Parks."


""they want to start open cast mining in National Parks.""
what do you mean by START?

they been mining in nation parks for a long time

You congratulated him on having (presumably) de-bunked the myth that we don't have open cast coal mining in our National Parks, having spent six months and pages of pages of scroll yourself to say the same thing.

I then simply invited you to list the open cast coal mines currently operating in NZ National Parks and suggested that this wouldn't take you too many words.

You haven't come up with one yet, so is it reasonable to conclude that there aren't any?

[dsurf]

from stuff.co.nz

Open-cast mine wins approval
DEIDRE MUSSEN Last updated 05:00 27/08/2011SharePrint Text Size 41 commentsRelevant offersA proposed open-cast coal mine on West Coast conservation land has gained resource consents because of its economic benefits.

West Coast Regional Council released the decision yesterday to grant consents for a subsidiary of Perth-based Bathurst Resources Ltd to mine 200 hectares in the Mt Rochfort Conservation Area on Denniston Plateau, near Westport.

The Escarpment Mine would become New Zealand's second-largest opencast coal mine, neighbouring the country's biggest, state-owned enterprise Solid Energy's Stockton mine.

"We have decided to grant this application, but not without some considerable reservations and anguish," said the decision by the three hearing commissioners.

"The most and almost overwhelming factor that we had to consider is the enormous financial benefit that the mine will bring to the Buller district and the West Coast region."

Bathurst subsidiary Buller Coal Ltd told the resource consent hearings in June the mine would generate 424 new jobs and $138 million a year, including $41 million in wages and salaries, during its five-year life. The resource consent was for 12 years to allow for contingencies.

However, the commissioners refused to extend the consent period to 35 years or longer for the company's coal processing plant plus coal dewatering and stockpiling facility at Fairdown, which the company wanted to use for other mines it planned to develop in the area.

"We have declined to grant such time extensions because we do not wish to provide any indication that future consents will be granted to undertake further mining in this area," they said.

The company said the 200ha area would be cleared and not restored.

Bathurst Resources Ltd managing director Hamish Bohannan said last night he was pleased with the outcome.

Fairdown/Whareatea Residents Association spokesman David Orchard said the mine's economic benefits were overstated and short-term.

"Stockton has difficulty getting staff now so they bring them in. All they buy is food, accommodation and fuel; the money is taken elsewhere.

"The impact is absolutely appalling, the impact on health is bound to be considerable."

West Coast Environment Network spokeswoman Karen Mayhew said: "We find it unacceptable consents for a coal mine in this day and age can be granted without taking into consideration climate change."

DOC spokesman Rory Newsam said the department chose not to get involved with the resource consent hearing because it believed its environmental concerns would be addressed through alternative channels.

[minimoke]

OK guys, I've now got blood dripping off my forehead as I beat my head against a brick wall. The Denniston is not in a National Park. Most of its not even Schedule Four. Its just manky old conservation land.

Edit. Not manky if you are a Powelliphanta patrickensis

[Balance]

Not only incompetent management with the costs over-run, delays, technical mishaps, wrong equipment etc but looking increasingly like a reckless disregard for mine safety by PRC's management.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5565428/Pike-River-inquiry-Electrician-thought-he-would-die

Excerpts :

"He found an underground phone and rang the emergency number 555, which went to an answering machine."

"When I got in the fresh air base there was no first aid kit, the phone wasn't working and when I turned the fresh air valve on it wasn't working either."

"Rockhouse had never taken part in an emergency exit drill during his two and half years working for Pike River Coal."

"It took at least 45 minutes to walk through the ventilation shaft, but the mine's self-rescue apparatus was designed only to last 30 minutes."

"He was "concerned" at the news since the mine had battery back-up which meant when power went down, communications should remain on."

[iceman]

Yes Balance some very concerning issues there. It will be interesting to see how his father, the mine's Safety Manager, will respond in his testimony.


Not only incompetent management with the costs over-run, delays, technical mishaps, wrong equipment etc but looking increasingly like a reckless disregard for mine safety by PRC's management.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5565428/Pike-River-inquiry-Electrician-thought-he-would-die

Excerpts :

"He found an underground phone and rang the emergency number 555, which went to an answering machine."

"When I got in the fresh air base there was no first aid kit, the phone wasn't working and when I turned the fresh air valve on it wasn't working either."

"Rockhouse had never taken part in an emergency exit drill during his two and half years working for Pike River Coal."

"It took at least 45 minutes to walk through the ventilation shaft, but the mine's self-rescue apparatus was designed only to last 30 minutes."

"He was "concerned" at the news since the mine had battery back-up which meant when power went down, communications should remain on."

[troyvdh]

...what has emerged thus far quite frankly makes me feel sick/sad....so much complacency...incompetance....and what is particularly galling has been the defiant/heart rendering stance adopted by those in charge that this disaster was of no ones making...,.no blame et al....I cannot help thinking that this is "Cave Creek"...all over again....

...again i ask....why when you have supposedly have an asset worth supposedly 3-4 billion...do you not have the best facilities/safety measures known avaliable...it would be interesting to discover the the amount invested/dedicated for safety...

[Balance]

...what has emerged thus far quite frankly makes me feel sick/sad....so much complacency...incompetance....and what is particularly galling has been the defiant/heart rendering stance adopted by those in charge that this disaster was of no ones making...,.no blame et al....I cannot help thinking that this is "Cave Creek"...all over again....

...again i ask....why when you have supposedly have an asset worth supposedly 3-4 billion...do you not have the best facilities/safety measures known avaliable...it would be interesting to discover the the amount invested/dedicated for safety...

Remember this : "Pike River chief executive Peter Whittall feels the company has been "vindicated" by the evidence presented at the Royal Commission of Inquiry over the past two weeks."

How does that statement gel with what was disclosed at the inquiry today?

The poor 29 miners had no chance when you consider all the missing safety equipment and non-existent safety considerations.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/176357/emergency-call-went-answering-machine-pike-river-survivor

Excerpts :

"Mr Rockhouse dragged him to the fresh air base (a modified shipping container), where things either did not work, or were missing. The first, exterior front door, which was meant to be sealed, was arched open. A tag on the phone said it was `down due to fresh air base move'. Nothing came out the air vent."


"Smoke lines, which people could follow to safety in the event of a disaster, were broken or non-existent."

"Management's reponse to problems with transport to get out of the mine at the end of shifts was "yes, yes, yes, we're getting to it", Rockhouse said"

"They note that on November 23, mine employee Les Treddinick reported to Pike River management that gas was leaking around a drainage line seal on November 17."

-------------------------------------------------

[troyvdh]

...no offence balance but it appears to me that you appear to in a "rejoicing... "Im right again " mode...such blatancy could be viewed by some as offensive.

[Balance]

...no offence balance but it appears to me that you appear to in a "rejoicing... "Im right again " mode...such blatancy could be viewed by some as offensive.

I do not have blood on my hands - unlike those who were cheerleaders for the management of PRC.

Remember the attempts at shouting and shutting down anyone who dared to question PRC?

[troyvdh]

...like i said....

[minimoke]

In other evidence we've heard there was no emergency drills in 2 1/2 years. There was one toilet for all workers and that was 1km from the coal face; self rescue breathers lasted 30 minutes but the walk through teh ventilation shft was 45 minutes. Apparently the workers walked off the job for safety reasons. Where was their union, where was management, where was DOL. This all just gets tragically worse.

[winner69]

I do not have blood on my hands - unlike those who were cheerleaders for the management of PRC.

Remember the attempts at shouting and shutting down anyone who dared to question PRC?

But we have already agreed that shareholders don't need to have any conscience/culpability or whatever about what happens to their company - thats why they hire directors to look after their interests

While most were just betting on which way the line on a chart was going some were emotionally attached to their company - we don't seem to hear too much from those ones

[root]

I was expecting a professional enterprise operating in a hazardous environment to pass the initial superficial investigation of their safety systems and fall over under more detailed analysis. That doesn't appear to be the case with Pike.

I would be very nervous if I was sitting in the management chain.

[fabs]

Insurers will love this the way it unfolds.
Receivers and Insurance on to a good thing here, 2 out of 3 any guesses who is the 3rd party? Been waiting patiently in the wings for probably 2 years plus.

[Mr Tommy]

Insurers will love this the way it unfolds.
Receivers and Insurance on to a good thing here, 2 out of 3 any guesses who is the 3rd party? Been waiting patiently in the wings for probably 2 years plus.

Not quite sure what youre talking about, but my guess is old baldie, Don.
He is just about to shut his own underground mine for 9 months.

[Balance]

We now have the revelation that the fresh air base was decommissioned several weeks before the explosion! Yet the survivor (after the emergency call went to an answering machine!) was told to go to the fresh air base where there was ....... no fresh air, no phone, no first aid kit, no breathing apparatus, nothing.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/pike-river-inquest-revealing-unfolding-shambles-4389895

Excerpt : "What we have here is a corporate situation where we saw yesterday from Doug White - the manager - who had budgeted for a tube bundling gas monitoring system which is about health and safety, put it in the budget, but his bosses obviously took it out."

[Balance]

Think about this :

Second explosion 5 days after first explosion.

So there was a window of 4 days to rescue any survivors from the first explosion.

Why was the window not taken?

The Police and rescuers simply did not have the data and information to make that all important and critical call. Damned if they do, and damned if they do.

Why was the data not available?

Because PRC's management were not prepared to spend $1m for a proper gas monitoring system! But it's okay to overspend tens of millions on correcting technical mishaps - collapsed ventilation shaft, poor equipment, bad engineering etc.

So how many of the 29 miners could have been saved for that $1m? That $1m represents 0.2% of the total cost of the mine development.

Excerpt :

"White said he had wanted a better gas-monitoring system, which might have withstood an explosion.

He had budgeted $800,000 to $1 million for the "tube bundling system", but funding restraints had delayed its purchase. He had been unhappy about the delay and had suggested leasing the system instead."

[minimoke]

For what its worth Nevile Rockhouse has now just got onto the stand at the Inquiry. His evidence wil be interesting.

Edit: Heres a link http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/live-stream-pike-river-inquiry-video-4336832

(http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/live-stream-pike-river-inquiry-video-4336832)

[minimoke]

Oh dear - the bone is being pointed. This is all such hard stuff to gear. NR wanted senior managers to undergo training on the Emergency response card systems but PW refused this as he reckoned they were all senior and experienced people and it wasn't needed. NR didn't want the shaft used as a secondary exit and did a trial where a couple of guys only got 50m up in near ideal conditions. PW despite being on site and saying he would be part of that exercise didn't turn up.

It has to be self apparent to even a casual observer this shaft (which bent back on itself and the ladder was only rated for 8 people) was never going to be any good as an emergency exit.

[Balance]

Oh dear - the bone is being pointed. This is all such hard stuff to gear. NR wanted senior managers to undergo training on the Emergency response card systems but PW refused this as he reckoned they were all senior and experienced people and it wasn't needed. NR didn't want the shaft used as a secondary exit and did a trial where a couple of guys only got 50m up in near ideal conditions. PW despite being on site and saying he would be part of that exercise didn't turn up.

It has to be self apparent to even a casual observer this shaft (which bent back on itself and the ladder was only rated for 8 people) was never going to be any good as an emergency exit.

Most telling comment from PRC's management about how great a job they thought they did :

Excerpt : "Pike River chief executive Peter Whittall feels the company has been "vindicated" by the evidence presented at the Royal Commission of Inquiry over the past two weeks."

So who is telling the truth?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10750114

Excerpt : "After phase one of the Royal Commission into the explosion, mine chief executive Peter Whittall told the Campbell Live television programme that Mr Rockhouse had deemed it satisfactory for a second escape route.

"I totally refute that statement ...I was always concerned," Mr Rockhouse said.

He said he did everything he could to prevent it being declared the official second escape.

"At no time did I ever accept this as being a satisfactory means of exit from the mine in any type of emergency situation."

[minimoke]

Why is it that it is Peter Withalls name being thrown around. I'm not sure I've heard Gordon Ward mentioned very often so far.

[Balance]

Why is it that it is Peter Withalls name being thrown around. I'm not sure I've heard Gordon Ward mentioned very often so far.

GW was CEO in charge of PRC during its development phase whilst PW was the mine development manager, then operational manager, then CEO?

It must be extremely distressing for the families of Pike 29 to have to listen in on all the safety lapses (and the previous self-congratulatory-self-justification pontifications by PRC management) as the revelations now roll in :

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/176724/fresh-air-base-full-smoke

1. Fresh air base decommissioned before a new one was in place - "matter of weeks away".

2. Explosion was not picked up for 41 minutes because operator had to watch 6 screens.

3. The new fresh air base was not the only thing pending. Damaged smokelines - which miners could use to navigate to safety if the mine was filled with smoke - were to be replaced and extended.

And now, we have lawyers advising him not to answer questions! This is a full and open inquiry?

[minimoke]

GW was CEO in charge of PRC during its development phase whilst PW was the mine development manager, then operational manager, then CEO?

Yes, I know. GW was CEO and resigned in September 2010, effective 1 October and PW took over on 2 October. All this safety development was surely under GW's watch.

[minimoke]

It has to be self apparent to even a casual observer this shaft (which bent back on itself and the ladder was only rated for 8 people) was never going to be any good as an emergency exit.Now we hear it wasn't self evident to management that they were in a mine, they were in a gassy mine, they were in a mine with ignitions yet no one contemplated an explosion.

[Balance]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/opinion/5592674/Mining-the-depths-of-negligence


It needed to be said and now, it has been.

Excerpt : " facade of brave but stoic victimhood fades with every new revelation of inadequate and lax attention to health and safety brought to the surface by the inquiry's scrutiny. What was at first perceived as a tragic natural disaster is fast-becoming a whodunit of man's folly in the pursuit of profit; a woeful situation supported and probably encouraged by the largesse of successive governments kneeling at the shrine of the mighty dollar."

And then there were those on this site who attempted at every point to stop discussion and revelation of how badly mismanaged the mine was. You know who you are.

[Balance]

The gloves are well and truly off, and not before time.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5601955/Pike-receivers-deny-stalling

Excerpt : Monk said as the hearing progressed it was becoming evident safety shortcuts had been taken for financial reasons.

"The way this mine was structured and the shortcuts they were taking, it was only a matter of time before this happened, and I think that's coming out at the moment."

Asked who should be held responsible for the safety failings at the mine, Monk refused to name names but said the buck had to stop at the top.

"They [Pike River] had more than enough staff up top, digging their snouts into the trough, but they just forgot about safety," said Monk.

"The most intolerable thing for the families is these guys were working their guts out for an industry ... and no one's looked after their safety."

[Sideshow Bob]

Does Gordon Ward have to front up to the inquiry?

[winner69]

[url]
..... And then there were those on this site who attempted at every point to stop discussion and revelation of how badly mismanaged the mine was. You know who you are.

..... all in the pursiut of profit eh

[Oiler]

[QUOTE=Balance;356579


"The most intolerable thing for the families is these guys were working their guts out for an industry ... and no one's looked after their safety."[/QUOTE]

Balance, my understanding after working on many complex and large work sites in this country is as follows

Every person working on a site such as PIKE is responsible for there own safety and have the right to stop any job that they deem unsafe.

Supervisors under the HSE Act have a responsibility to ensure that the work place is safe and can be held accountable in the case of injury. The courts now take a very dim view of workplace injuries.

I am amazed that this "accident" is certainly now looking like it could have been prevented. How, damming evidence has been able to be kept under wraps until now is beyond belief. If the guys knew it was unsafe to work in the mine then why would they put themselves at risk by going to work. All it needed was for the guys to say no and then call DOL/OSH and that would have got some attention. Don't be surprised if somebody doesn't raise this question in rebuttal at the hearing.

I know, its all very well being wise after the fact and I feel sorry for the victims families.

Before the hearing began I held the view that nobody had the facts and why speculate at what happened and now we are getting to the truth of the matter. Unbelievable.

[Awamoa]

With all these Health & Safety issues being aired now it seems strange that the Union reps were not stepping in and demanding improvements before any further work was done or am I missing something?
Isnt that part of the reason for having Workers Unions?

[Balance]

With all these Health & Safety issues being aired now it seems strange that the Union reps were not stepping in and demanding improvements before any further work was done or am I missing something?
Isnt that part of the reason for having Workers Unions?

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/pike-river-2010/82947/pike-river-boss-defends-safety-response

Safety breaches on both sides - workers get fired but what about management?

[minimoke]

Every person working on a site such as PIKE is responsible for there own safety and have the right to stop any job that they deem unsafe.

Supervisors under the HSE Act have a responsibility to ensure that the work place is safe and can be held accountable in the case of injury. The courts now take a very dim view of workplace injuries.

Kind of but not quite. It is the "employer" who has the primary and most responsibilities. Thats the CEO who has to make things work. Ward / Withall are responsible at this level. Though not personally responsible they are the ones that had to make the employer responsibilities work. The courts take a relatively dim view of workplace injuries but in the main it is the "employer" who is prosecuted - very rarely the employee. PRC will be prosecuted - what remains is the number and type of charges. Mac Dow will also be under the spotlight - someone will be looking at the design implications of using shotcrete and questions wil be asked on what they were doing when they left the mine early on the day of the first explosion.

Employees ought not do things that hurt temsleves or others. Ward and Withall are also employees so have personal responsibility here. So do Supervisors and the guys at the coal face. They have the right to stop work on anything that is likely to cause a major injury - a higher threshold than just unsafe work. Any employee can be prosecuted. I haven't seen anything yet that suggests an employee is likely to be prosecuted. As Wardl is an ex-employee its unlikely he'll face charges.

Directors also have a legal responsibility. If they fail to do something then they can be held liable. I think there have been a couple of prosecutions in NZ but neither stood up. I'd imagine DOL will be looking at the possibility of prosecuting Directors in PRC. You cannot have 29 people killed on your watch without your actions being tested at the highest level. Its about time we had a decent Director prosecution and PRC provides possibly one of the best platforms to make this happen.

Edit - Had to be one around. Mr Gratton was a Director of IcePack coolstores which went up in a ball of flames in an explosion killing one person. He basically didn't put up much of a protest when he knew Icepack weren't doing things safely. He was fined $30,000. The DOL said at the time "“It was highly foreseeable that at sometime the coolstore complex would explode.”"

[iceman]

I absolutely agree with you Oiler. I also am amazed that Mr Rockhouse Senior is leveling such heavy criticism at company management when I would have thought he has been either totally irresponsible or negligent in his job as safety manager, based on what he has said in his evidence.

[Balance]

I absolutely agree with you Oiler. I also am amazed that Mr Rockhouse Senior is leveling such heavy criticism at company management when I would have thought he has been either totally irresponsible or negligent in his job as safety manager, based on what he has said in his evidence.

He has paid the ultimate price of one of his sons dead due to the safety lapses and shortcuts. I suspect that's why he decided to reveal all.

Excerpt : "Neville Rockhouse says the last safety inspection he carried out underground was a month before the explosion. He says he didn’t have enough staff to carry out regular audits.
He says he has since learnt there were a number of unsafe practices being carried out underground. Something he and his son Daniel had an argument about following the explosion.
“He was really concerned that it would ruin my career and I said ‘Bugger my career, go to the cops and tell them everything you know. Otherwise we don’t learn from it and I’ve lost a son and you’ve lost a brother for nothing’.”


http://www.3news.co.nz/Last-Pike-River-safety-inspection-a-month-before-explosion/tabid/423/articleID/225056/Default.aspx#ixzz1Xg7GitPU

Contrast that with the "vindication" statement by PW after phase 1 of the inquiry.

[minimoke]

I absolutely agree with you Oiler. I also am amazed that Mr Rockhouse Senior is leveling such heavy criticism at company management when I would have thought he has been either totally irresponsible or negligent in his job as safety manager, based on what he has said in his evidence.
You will also have heard in evidence that Neville had a $5,000 level of financial authority and he wasn't part of the Senior management team. He wasn't the one with delegation to make the decisions.

[iceman]

Yes I have heard that minimoke. However, such serious concerns should have been taken to OSH immediately, regardless of ones position within the company. Just to be clear, I think senior management has been very negligent based on evidence so far but am amazed that this disregard for safety issues seems to have been the cultural norm for the whole company, management and workforce.


You will also have heard in evidence that Neville had a $5,000 level of financial authority and he wasn't part of the Senior management team. He wasn't the one with delegation to make the decisions.

[Balance]

Yes I have heard that minimoke. However, such serious concerns should have been taken to OSH immediately, regardless of ones position within the company. Just to be clear, I think senior management has been very negligent based on evidence so far but am amazed that this disregard for safety issues seems to have been the cultural norm for the whole company, management and workforce.

Starts from the top.

For example - fresh air base decommissioned before a new one is in place - whose decision is that? I cannot imagine that any of the staff would have been aware of such an incredibly dumb decision!

[iceman]

Starts from the top.

For example - fresh air base decommissioned before a new one is in place - whose decision is that? I cannot imagine that any of the staff would have been aware of such an incredibly dumb decision!

Not even the safety manager ??

[Balance]

Not even the safety manager ??

The safety manager was excluded from a decision to use the ventilation shaft as a second escape way. Remember that PW did not bother turning up for a trial run of using the shaft? A

Couple of excerpts :

!. "Raymond reminded Whittall that about four months before the November 19 explosion he and other senior managers had discussed doing a “test run” up the 100 metre-plus vertical ventilation shaft – Pike’s only means of escape other than the main 2.3km tunnel. “You recall that it was a bit of a joke among the four or five of you as to who would be able to get up it.”

When the time came for the exercise, Whittall, “didn’t turn up”, said Raymond. Whittall said he was on the road doing a shareholder briefing, and he had got a “ribbing” from his colleagues for his absence.

Bernie Monk, representative of the families, told reporters after the hearing that one of the men involved in that exercise had assured him that no-one would have survived the explosion by climbing up the vent shaft ladder."

Excerpt 2 :

"About this time, it was ruled the ventilation shaft was to become the second escapeway. He was excluded from the meetings when this decision was made, and could not say who made it.

"It was a very strenous climb. Once I found out about this plan, I proactively began to fight against it."

It had no mechanical hoist to pull injured people. There was a 50m vertical ladder with no platforms, which at one stage leaned back. A static wire rope and harnesses would instead be used. Only eight sets were purchased as it was originally intended for maintenance.

If there was a fire or explosion, miners would not be able to climb 50m up an incline, then up another 50m ladder. He said he told all department heads of his concerns. "You did not send people to a bottleneck in an emergency," he said.

At shift change, there could be up to 60 people underground. The ladder could take eight.

A year before the blast, four people were to test the ascent. The first two were so exhausted that no one else even wanted to try. Neither made it as far as the surface.

Mr Rockhouse said he tried to convince Mr Whittall to buy a refuge station.

With no official sign-off on the second escape exit, other safety measures were delayed, including smokelines to navigate to safety in a smoke-filled tunnel."

[minimoke]

Trying to figure out how the receiver managed to persuade the unsecured creditors to
drop their action to call in the liquidator.

No mention of the insurance claim payment as yet.
Today we find out!. PRC will receive approx $80m in full and final settlement from their insurers.
Unsecured Creditors will receive from this sum $10,000 or less if their claim is less. This is worth about $10.1m

BNZ get the lions share at $23.2m for full settlement

$6.3m goes to the mining equipment leases.

NZOG, as secured creditor gets $38.3m
NZOG as unsecured creditor gets $3.00

That leaves somewhere around $40m in debt left to cover.

[Obelix]

I am surprised the insurance pays out anything to these idiots now that it is coming to light how utterly irresponsible they all have been.

The people involved in PRC management both middle and upper should not be allowed to work in a mine ever again let alone sit on the board of directors for a company.

Hope they all go to jail and pay very hefty fines. All of them.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the offers from potential buyers is around $40 million which would then clean the debt.

[brucey09]

Snrs.
In NZ can the shareholders sue the Directors and managers or there insurers for lack of caring?

[Oiler]

The safety manager was excluded from a decision to use the ventilation shaft as a second escape way. Remember that PW did not bother turning up for a trial run of using the shaft? A

Couple of excerpts :

!. "Raymond reminded Whittall that about four months before the November 19 explosion he and other senior managers had discussed doing a “test run” up the 100 metre-plus vertical ventilation shaft – Pike’s only means of escape other than the main 2.3km tunnel. “You recall that it was a bit of a joke among the four or five of you as to who would be able to get up it.”

When the time came for the exercise, Whittall, “didn’t turn up”, said Raymond. Whittall said he was on the road doing a shareholder briefing, and he had got a “ribbing” from his colleagues for his absence.

Bernie Monk, representative of the families, told reporters after the hearing that one of the men involved in that exercise had assured him that no-one would have survived the explosion by climbing up the vent shaft ladder."

Excerpt 2 :

"About this time, it was ruled the ventilation shaft was to become the second escapeway. He was excluded from the meetings when this decision was made, and could not say who made it.

"It was a very strenous climb. Once I found out about this plan, I proactively began to fight against it."

It had no mechanical hoist to pull injured people. There was a 50m vertical ladder with no platforms, which at one stage leaned back. A static wire rope and harnesses would instead be used. Only eight sets were purchased as it was originally intended for maintenance.

If there was a fire or explosion, miners would not be able to climb 50m up an incline, then up another 50m ladder. He said he told all department heads of his concerns. "You did not send people to a bottleneck in an emergency," he said.

At shift change, there could be up to 60 people underground. The ladder could take eight.

A year before the blast, four people were to test the ascent. The first two were so exhausted that no one else even wanted to try. Neither made it as far as the surface.

Mr Rockhouse said he tried to convince Mr Whittall to buy a refuge station.

With no official sign-off on the second escape exit, other safety measures were delayed, including smokelines to navigate to safety in a smoke-filled tunnel."

While all these things may well be true, for me safety comes down to the individual to make the choice whether a job is safe to do or not. Supervision/Management would have done some form of HAZID/HAZOP and made this available to every worker. They don't always get it right but it is usually a dynamic document as the conditions change. If the employees are not happy with what they are being asked to do then thats the time to speak up. It is there right as a worker to say NO.

[Obelix]

Snrs.
In NZ can the shareholders sue the Directors and managers or there insurers for lack of caring?

Yes you can, only problem is these losers dont have any money, so in the long term even if you did win you would still get nothing. Thats called getting ****ed over.

[rabcat]

Today we find out!. PRC will receive approx $80m in full and final settlement from their insurers.
Unsecured Creditors will receive from this sum $10,000 or less if their claim is less. This is worth about $10.1m

BNZ get the lions share at $23.2m for full settlement

$6.3m goes to the mining equipment leases.

NZOG, as secured creditor gets $38.3m
NZOG as unsecured creditor gets $3.00

That leaves somewhere around $40m in debt left to cover.

I was just thinking if there is only now $40m in debt that some how Soil Energy take over Pike River and keep it as a listed company on the stock market. they would need to pay out NZOG but private share holders could be offered the optio to remain share holders. In longer term it may give solid a way of listing on the market or the pike shares could convert to Solid energy shares if or when the govt. partially lists them.

[Hoop]

Yes you can, only problem is these losers dont have any money, so in the long term even if you did win you would still get nothing. Thats called getting ****ed over.

The above quote is only one of many reasons why there are so few investing into companies to make our economy strong ...and so many investing into property and making our economy weak. Public's perception towards shareholders doesn't help either. We need company investment to create employment and added wealth.... The "recent" introduced laws including the "limp" disclosure laws have yet to tame the west.....we know that because the cowboys are still shooting up Dodge City.

[minimoke]

I was just thinking if there is only now $40m in debt that some how Soil Energy take over Pike River and keep it as a listed company on the stock market. they would need to pay out NZOG but private share holders could be offered the optio to remain share holders. In longer term it may give solid a way of listing on the market or the pike shares could convert to Solid energy shares if or when the govt. partially lists them.
So you are assuming SE will pay $40m to cover the debts.
Plus $?m for ongoing receivership and mine costs as well as any money going into the Inquiry.
Plus $?m for costs associated with body recovery which may take a few years.
Plus $?m for a OSH prosecution and reparations judges order.

Bear in mind the new owner may need substantial cash to redevelop the mine. There has been talk the bodies may not be recovered suggesting the existing mine might be by-passed with new underground and the unlikely open cast development.

And if the new owner isn't solid energy they may not even have a rail head.

And current shareholders may be offered an opportunity to remain shareholders? The only reason existing shareholders will be given such as opportunity is so the new owners can tap a source for the necessary capital raising.

[Monkey Poms]

Today we find out!. PRC will receive approx $80m in full and final settlement from their insurers.
Unsecured Creditors will receive from this sum $10,000 or less if their claim is less. This is worth about $10.1m

BNZ get the lions share at $23.2m for full settlement

$6.3m goes to the mining equipment leases.

NZOG, as secured creditor gets $38.3m
NZOG as unsecured creditor gets $3.00

That leaves somewhere around $40m in debt left to cover.

Hi Minimoke.

"Following the mine explosion on 19 November last year, NZOG loaned PRCL
$12m. After the Receivers were appointed it was this funding that allowed the
receivers to carry out their duties - to support the mine stabilisation
efforts, pay employees their statutory entitlements, co-operate with the
various inquiries, begin a sales process and pursue the insurance claims."
________________________________________

I remember the NZO management took a lot of stick from shareholders for giving Pike this loan.
On this occasion they had the good foresight to help protect the interest of NZO's shareholders.
Maybe that's why they pay them the big bucks?, ( Balance your comments please ).

Hope the next rare piece of good news for Piker's is that Solid Energy pay the receiver in full the true value
of all the coal they purchased from Pike, at the moment ( best guess ) Pike are owed a further $3,500,000,
This is now in the hands of the receivers lawyers.

Minimoke I have a theory as to why Solid Energy paid Pike short, at a time when Pikes financial situation was dire.

Solid energy congratulated themselves on a plus 20% rise in their profit margin, this compared to the near
100% rise in the price of coal during SE accounting period, this suggests SE may have forward sold a major
part of their forward coal production at roughly half the price as to the spot price of coal available at the time
of the explosion of the mine. ( as with the gamble of striking a price for the sale of future production of any
commodity ) sometimes you win sometimes you lose. SE could have lost big time.

If my guess is near to the mark, Pike should not be made to pay for the mistakes of Solid Energy, As to
Devious Don describing our coal as not being coking coal or even sub coking coal, there are, i am sure many
experts out there who will disagree with him if it comes to court of law.

I have a sample of the first coal extracted from the mine, taken when the tunnel finally hit the coal seam,
I will gladly send the sample down to the court for analysis as exhibit ( A ) should the need arise.

Come on Don, pay the bill to the receiver, the funds would be a good start to help pay the cost of bringing
home the bodies of the 29 men.

Monkey Poms.

[rabcat]

What I am saying is there are a couple of obvious problems with the original PRC mining operation. One of the issues was the management i.e. they didnt have the experience or expertise to undertake this operation. My understanding is that SE have these skills.
Secondly $40million is small change when you have a possible resource worth $4-5 Billion. Even given it may take another $100 -200m to get the mine up and running again.
Thirdly from what I have heard from the royal commission the issues with this mine are not that it is an underground mine but that the current operators where pretty slack with safety issues. That comes back to the seemingly weak management and lack of forward planning.
And yes the current shareholders would need to put up additional capital, but I would be unhappy to do that with the current managemt or board. Having SE involved would certainly resolve those concerns from my perpsective.

[George]

I am disappointed at the lack of concern for safety issues many years after new requirements came into being. I know of a teacher at a big high school in Auckland who had a large heavy TV fall off a high trolley hitting her head and knocking her out for half an hour, bruising her ribs and breaking her ankle in two places. She has just lost her limp after 6 months. The nasty part about it all is that management (principal etc) never rang her to see how she was, OSH never investigated, the health and safety officer or union rep never approached her (they obviously weren't told) and it is astonishing how such an event can be kept quiet as there were plenty of witnesses. But it was kept quiet. Heard that a TV may have fallen in the past but nothing was done ie. near miss form filled out and steps taken to rectify.
A couple of inches either way and it would have missed her or KILLED HER. She doesn't want to stir things up because they could make her job harder or phase her out in some way even tho she's a permanent employee.

[minimoke]

I am disappointed at the lack of concern for safety issues many years after new requirements came into being.
You have a point. NZ has just had three more industrial deaths in three days. 1 x drainlayer in a 3m trench collapse, 1 x truck driver crushed while unloading a generator, 1 x 2 year old run over by a tractor. That follows the truck driver who was killed last month when he drove into power lines Then there was the death of an electrical worker in June when his cherry picker fell over. The tragic irony is that his employer received a Supreme National Safety award a few hours earlier.

[George]

[QUOTE=minimoke;356758]You have a point. NZ has just had three more industrial deaths in three days. 1 x drainlayer in a 3m trench collapse,
This after two prior similar trench collapses resulting in deaths. What's going on - or not???

[brucey09]

Snrs.
Is this as you say ok
PRC 405000000 shares
debts $50000000
restart $100000000 at most
$0.37 per share for billions of coal
NZO and India ?

[Balance]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10751473

God bless NZ.

[minimoke]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10751473

God bless NZ.

Clearly they didn't see the clue in the name "Mines RECSUE Service". But Google is your friend - shame Nichols didn't google MRS 24 hours earlier

I guess the only comfort families can take is that "The NZ Mines Rescue Service believes the initial shockwave of the first Pike River explosion killed most of the 29 men underground immediately.The initial explosion occurred in the mine on November 19 last year.
Lawyer for the Mines Rescue Service, Garth Gallaway, made the claim during the inquiry into the disaster this morning"

[Crypto Crude]

had a beer with daniel rockhouse today, he smoked me at pool... But I beat up on his brother...

sorry dudes, no inside gos this time...
:cool:
.^sc

[blockhead]

(un) Balanced, pull your flamin head in, there is nothing new, interesting or helpful in your above post, it is pointless, we all know what happened.

This forum is open to anyone...including families of the people on the Coast, have a bit of respect.

[Balance]

(un) Balanced, pull your flamin head in, there is nothing new, interesting or helpful in your above post, it is pointless, we all know what happened.

This forum is open to anyone...including families of the people on the Coast, have a bit of respect.

News to me that PW wanted to be the big hero to tell everyone the bad news but then, in typical PRC management style, only wanted to deliver the 'good' news.

He obviously thought that he was dealing with NZOG and PRC mushrooms?

[digger]

What should have happened is that some years before the accident my plan to to have small 150mm holes [6 inches]every 30 metres drilled from above the mine and down into the coal should have been put in place. Doc and the greenies would not even consider it said PW as it took years to get permit to get even one one drilled and Doc said there would be no more. If my plan could have been considered and put into action there would not have been an explosion as gas levels would never have built up. My system works with nature and workes 24/7,but it was not to be. So we ended up trying to push methane down hill using fans when it wants to naturally rise.A bit like pis-ing into the wind and expecting not to get wet.
Who ever takes over PIKE will get my plan layed out again this time in writing. It was very simple and is used in some degree in the successful gas mines.

Now back to the bottom of the cliff where we all like to be with our usual after the horses have bolted mentatily.

[Balance]

What should have happened is that some years before the accident my plan to to have small 150cm holes every 30 metres drilled from above the mine and down into the coal should have been put in place. Doc and the greenies would not even consider it said PW as it took years to get permit to get even one one drilled and Doc said there would be no more. If my plan could have been considered and put into action there would not have been an explosion as gas levels would never have built up. My system works with nature and workes 24/7,but it was not to be. So we ended up trying to push methane down hill using fans when it wants to naturally rise.A bit like pis-ing into the wind and expecting not to get wet.
Who ever takes over PIKE will get my plan layed out again this time in writing. It was very simple and is used in some degree in the successful gas mines.

Now back to the bottom of the cliff where we all like to be with our usual after the horses have bolted mentatily.

Simple solution indeed, Digger and not much of a footprint impact on the vast acreage of parklands.

Hope the greenies and Doc wake up to reality or the government does and enact legislation to force them to face reality. NZ is going broke and it's only the overseas money coming in to buy up our farmlands and other assets which is keeping the wolves from the door.

Think about the NZ$ at US$0.35c when the shxt hits the fan.

PS. Look at the debacle at the RWC Auckland opening night fiasco. Worst part about it is that nobody will take responsibility - it's always somebody else's fault. It's in the DNA of those who love power and the freebies which come from having that power.

[minimoke]

What should have happened is that some years before the accident my plan to to have small 150cm holes every 30 metres drilled from above the mine and down into the coal should have been put in place. Doc and the greenies would not even consider it said PW
But we have heard in evidence that PRC did not consider the risk of explosion. Maybe thats why yoru idea didn't get traction ot it might have been more to do with the fact this was a company that was strapped for cash and setting up a rig every 30m was going to be cost prohibitive? Afterall they already had DOC consent to build the four emergency exits.

Your comment that it took years to approve 1 hole is also a bit off. PRC applied for a ventilation shaft in May 2002. Prior to that their focus was on access roads and power/slurry lines. This went through a DOC process, and Min of Conservation process and an environment court process which was fully resolved by August 2004. The wheels of justice in NZ take a while to turn - not just on environmental issues. Take Sophie Elliot. She was stabbed 216 times by Weathrston in January 2008. All straight forward - but it was only this week that Weartheston exhausted his legal options some 3 1/2 years later. It took less than 2 1/2 years to approve PRC's ventilation shafts and emergency exits. In 2006 PRC was cleared to drill further explorarory holes. Had they liked your idea they could probably have had it approved by 2004 or 2006 at the latest. I suspect the failure of PRC to drill 150cm holes every 30m is a PRC issue rather than an greenie issue.

[brucey09]

Snrs.
As a PRC shareholder I will pay my 37c for share - otherwise will sell and I get nothing. Do you think this is so.

[Mr Tommy]

What should have happened is that some years before the accident my plan to to have small 150cm holes every 30 metres drilled from above the mine and down into the coal should have been put in place.

Hi Digger
do you really mean 150cm holes every 30m ?
150cm is actually 1.5 metres, they are pretty big holes.

[digger]

Hi Digger
do you really mean 150cm holes every 30m ?
150cm is actually 1.5 metres, they are pretty big holes.

Your absolutely correct Mr Tommy. I meant a 6 inch hole which is 150mm.
Thanks for correcting i will go back and edit it for the records.

[minimoke]

Interesting but sad evidence today. It seems pretty apparent that the miners died immediately on the the first explosion. It will be of no comfort to the families but their men who survived initially were unlikely to have been waiting more than an hour for rescue. It is sad that due to the lack of communication with Mines Rescue, PRC and the police gave the impression there was hope when really none existed.

It is now becoming apparent that reopening this mine is going to be a huge challenge. The question will be: can it ever be made safe enough to encourage people to go down again. If it can be made safe the men will need to know that if there is ever another explosion their chances of coming out are very remote. The length of the gun barrel and the terrain inevitably make gas monitoring so much of a challenge that help will not be immediately available.

Potential buyers will be looking very closely at this evidence and wondering if 30% of the coal resource is enough to make their risks worthwhile. There is no need for Solid Energy to play silly buggers that leads to a lower bid - this evidence will be driving the price down.

[Balance]

Interesting but sad evidence today. It seems pretty apparent that the miners died immediately on the the first explosion. It will be of no comfort to the families but their men who survived initially were unlikely to have been waiting more than an hour for rescue. It is sad that due to the lack of communication with Mines Rescue, PRC and the police gave the impression there was hope when really none existed.

It is now becoming apparent that reopening this mine is going to be a huge challenge. The question will be: can it ever be made safe enough to encourage people to go down again. If it can be made safe the men will need to know that if there is ever another explosion their chances of coming out are very remote. The length of the gun barrel and the terrain inevitably make gas monitoring so much of a challenge that help will not be immediately available.

Potential buyers will be looking very closely at this evidence and wondering if 30% of the coal resource is enough to make their risks worthwhile. There is no need for Solid Energy to play silly buggers that leads to a lower bid - this evidence will be driving the price down.

So why is Solid Energy playing silly buggers? Answer lies in SE's very condemnation from the beginning of PRC's mine development and operations.

PRC was so grossly mismanaged and safety considerations so lax that SE knows it just takes a good miner to get all that US$4 billion to US$12 billion coal out safely.

Any number of international coal miners know what they are doing and need to do to make the mine safe. They also know the value of the coal.

There are many mines around the world which are mined safely by companies with excellent reputation and experience.

When there are explosions or fires, they know what to do - after making sure there are no short cuts for safety.

Small little things like telephones which work, fresh air bases which are actually in place with all the necessary equipments, secondary escapes which actually can be accessed, mine evacuation exercises and drills etc ...

http://www.daily-times.com/ci_18882058

[digger]

So why is Solid Energy playing silly buggers? Answer lies in SE's very condemnation from the beginning of PRC's mine development and operations.

PRC was so grossly mismanaged and safety considerations so lax that SE knows it just takes a good miner to get all that US$4 billion to US$12 billion coal out safely.

Any number of international coal miners know what they are doing and need to do to make the mine safe. They also know the value of the coal.

There are many mines around the world which are mined safely by companies with excellent reputation and experience.

When there are explosions or fires, they know what to do - after making sure there are no short cuts for safety.

Small little things like telephones which work, fresh air bases which are actually in place with all the necessary equipments, secondary escapes which actually can be accessed, mine evacuation exercises and drills etc ...

http://www.daily-times.com/ci_18882058

Good post Balance,i agree entirely. Also note that where gas mines are done safely the safety is up to the men on site and not some DOC greenies or govt officials that are clueless at best.

[iceman]

Good post Balance,i agree entirely. Also note that where gas mines are done safely the safety is up to the men on site and not some DOC greenies or govt officials that are clueless at best.

Like you Digger, I find myself increasingly agreeing with Balance, based on (untested) evidence so far. But equally importantly, I hold serious resevations about DOC/Greenies influence on this and other primary industry develpoments in NZ and would like to see the PRC Commission consider their responsibilities in DETAIL, just as they should the failures of OSH, Department of Laour and PRC Management/staff

[minimoke]

But equally importantly, I hold serious resevations about DOC/Greenies influence on this and other primary industry develpoments in NZ I'm not sure trying ot point the bone at DOC / Greenies adds much value to the past or the future.

We have a certain environment in which business must operate. We may not like paying taxes but our environment says taxes must be paid - unless you are in the film industry in which your environment is open to subsidies.

We may not like having an ETS but if we are going to do dairying or coal mining then we need to work within the ETS.

Me might not like having to pay a minimum wage - but if you want cheap labourr there will be a minimum price to pay.

If you want to mine on DOC land, national parks or conservation estates then you have to go into that business knowing working DOC lands will create extra challenges.

If we don't like the environment in which we operate we have three choices. Firstly we can ignore the burden placed on us and manage the risk of getting caught or things going wrong. Secondly we can recognise our responsibilities and obligations and factor the cost of those into our business. Thirdly we can try to influence change. We can be assured the outcome of the Royal Commission of Enquiry will create a change in the mining environment. My pick is that environment is about to get harder.

[iceman]

Thirdly we can try to influence change. We can be assured the outcome of the Royal Commission of Enquiry will create a change in the mining environment. My pick is that environment is about to get harder.

Agree with you minmoke that things will probably continue to get harder, to the detriment of NZ Inc. I will continue to try and influence (politically) change in thinking BUT would like to note that I am absolutely a believer in looking after our environment in a responsible manner and have been a leader in doing so in my industry. I just completely disagree with the extreme end of the "Green" spectrum.

[blockhead]

And among all the persons who perhaps should have known the mine was unsafe are the people who worked there, as a life member of a workers Union I have to wonder why the workers and their Union did not object more strongly if the mine was as unsafe as (un) Balanced would have us believe.

Personaly I have (as a Union leader) taken people off a work site because it was unsafe, it is not an easy thing to do.

[Balance]

If the mine was safe, there would not be 29 deaths.

As Kokshoorn would say, it's "as simple as that."

[minimoke]

if the mine was as unsafe as (un) Balanced would have us believe.
.
Don't take Balances word for it - listen the the evidence coming out of the Inquiry. Holy **** - if you ever want an example of a death trap heres one right before your eyes.

Why workers and their union did not object more strongly is a very good question and I hope we get to hear more about that. Were they paid more than the going rate? Were they glad to have a job? Were they on a production bonus plan? Are these things a union would object to?

[blockhead]

Yes one issue which has arisen is young Rockhouse was reluctant to make too much noise about safety because senior Rockhouse was Safety Officer, understandable but sad.

[minimoke]

just as they should the failures of OSH, Department of LaourIt just gets worse. OSH sent the police an OSH inspector with no expertise in mines to advise on mine risk assessments. What can I say!

[Balance]

It just gets worse. OSH sent the police an OSH inspector with no expertise in mines to advise on mine risk assessments. What can I say!

Sadly, the Australians were on to it day 1. The NZ media and public were completely fooled by the PR spin from PRC and NZOG.

Remember this :

"An Australian journalist was criticised heavy in November last year when he asked at a media conference in the days after the Pike River disaster why the "country cop" was in charge of the search and rescue, and not mines specialists. Ian Higgins' question was directed towards the police officer in charge of the operation, Superintendent Gary Knowles.

At the time, the then Minister of Energy and Resources Gerry Brownlee called Mr Higgins an "utter tosspot"."



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/miners-doomed-by-fatal-flaws/story-e6frg6z6-1226082325549

[percy]

At the time, the then Minister of Energy and Resources Gerry Brownlee called Mr Higgins an "utter tosspot"."


At least Gerry was original. What a lovely phrase."utter tosspot".
[

[Coalman]

I sold NZO and bought PRC just about a month from the fatefull day last year. I thought the mine was on track to substancily gain in value. All the hard work had been done so I thought. Well never mind, I am alive and all that I lost is money. Its a pity what is to become of the CPP? (Coal Processing Plant) and other infastructure? Solid Engery seem keen as mustard to buy the lot. What about our shares? How do we stand if this eventually happens?

[percy]

I sold NZO and bought PRC just about a month from the fatefull day last year. I thought the mine was on track to substancily gain in value. All the hard work had been done so I thought. Well never mind, I am alive and all that I lost is money. Its a pity what is to become of the CPP? (Coal Processing Plant) and other infastructure? Solid Engery seem keen as mustard to buy the lot. What about our shares? How do we stand if this eventually happens?
Shareholders are the last people in a very long que.I doubt shareholders will see anything.

[digger]

Shareholders are the last people in a very long que.I doubt shareholders will see anything.

My reading between the lines says it differently.But before you read on please remember it is just my take and i have nothing other than my reasoning to go on and it could be wrong so to not morgage the farm on it.
If the shareholders are to see nothing then NZO was very foolish to leave behind any of the 80 million recent insurance settlement when they had every legal right to take up all their secure loans. So my reading is that NZO see a future for not just the secure loans but some further value in its 29% shareholding in PIKE.If there was no hope of NZO every getting some value out of this 29% holding then Balance would be correct in his assesment that the management of NZO or ------- and the shareholders in NZO are indeed mushrooms.

[percy]

My reading between the lines says it differently.But before you read on please remember it is just my take and i have nothing other than my reasoning to go on and it could be wrong so to not morgage the farm on it.
If the shareholders are to see nothing then NZO was very foolish to leave behind any of the 80 million recent insurance settlement when they had every legal right to take up all their secure loans. So my reading is that NZO see a future for not just the secure loans but some further value in its 29% shareholding in PIKE.If there was no hope of NZO every getting some value out of this 29% holding then Balance would be correct in his assesment that the management of NZO or ------- and the shareholders in NZO are indeed mushrooms.
I do not know whether shareholders will see anything or not.As it was coalman's first post and no one had replied to it I thought it was only fair to warn him not to have high hopes.Like you I hope his shares turn out to be of value.,Only company I have seen come out of receivership was SCY.Receivers costs are high,legal fees will be high so cash will get eaten up very quickly.No,definitely do not mortgage the farm.Sorry, I do not value Balance's view.
I would be interested to know if PRC receivers are maintaining the share registry.? ie if you wanted to transfer your shares,can you.?

[Monkey Poms]

Why is it that it is Peter Withalls name being thrown around. I'm not sure I've heard Gordon Ward mentioned very often so far.

By not taking the opportunity to question Gordon Ward, the inquiry may have missed a large chunk of the puzzle relating
to the discussions held with the DOC regarding the way forward,i.e: to have enabled Gordon and his team to be given some sort of guidance as to what the DOC would or would not allow.

During a discussion with GW I came to the conclusion he was given a hard time by the DOC. In fact, I do think
despite Gordon being a chirpy sort of a guy,the Doc wore him down. In the end, due possibly to certain pressures
put on him, Pike did not get all that they wanted from the DoC.

To me, somewhere along the line there has been an absence of compromise and common sense.

It is easy in hindsight now to suggest that it would have been a good idea for Gordon to
have asked a plain-speaking representative of the mining union to help Pike negotiate
some sort of compromise or concession's

D.O.C. - Deliberately. Obstructive. Committee.?
If it was not DOC. (Government ) remit to consider safety in the planning of a mine
it should certainly be allowed to consider it in the future.
Monkey Poms.

[iceman]

By not taking the opportunity to question Gordon Ward, the inquiry may have missed a large chunk of the puzzle relating
to the discussions held with the DOC regarding the way forward,i.e: to have enabled Gordon and his team to be given some sort of guidance as to what the DOC would or would not allow.

During a discussion with GW I came to the conclusion he was given a hard time by the DOC. In fact, I do think
despite Gordon being a chirpy sort of a guy,the Doc wore him down. In the end, due possibly to certain pressures
put on him, Pike did not get all that they wanted from the DoC.

To me, somewhere along the line there has been an absence of compromise and common sense.

It is easy in hindsight now to suggest that it would have been a good idea for Gordon to
have asked a plain-speaking representative of the mining union to help Pike negotiate
some sort of compromise or concession's

D.O.C. - Deliberately. Obstructive. Committee.?
If it was not DOC. (Government ) remit to consider safety in the planning of a mine
it should certainly be allowed to consider it in the future.
Monkey Poms.

Absolutely correct MP that it would be a glaring ommission by the Commission not to fully investigate DOC's involvement and learn if the rules being applied by this Government department could possibly be unintentionally contributing to unsafe operational practices. Some posters here seem very sensitive and opposed to this which I find incredible. Surely we all want all the issues on the table so the best possible conclusion can be reached which hopefully will lead to best practice operations in the future, by all parties involved, to minimise as much as possible such awful tradegy happening again.

[minimoke]

By not taking the opportunity to question Gordon Ward, the inquiry may have missed a large chunk of the puzzle relating
to the discussions held with the DOC regarding the way forward,
Yes, your are right. By ommitting him from the line up we are only left to speculate and that is not helpful. Speculation isn't helpful so we can only rely on fact based on evidence.

I haven't seen any evidence of PRC applying for an open cast resource consent. If there is no paper trail then it didn't happen. We are left to rely on the evidence provided in Phase One - which was essentially PRC wanted to underground mine and DOC managed the consent process from there. I think we would be naive to think that PRC took nothing but the pragmatic approach.

We also have evidence that PRC applied for and got consent to build a second emergency egress and four additional bore holes. They got DOC consent but didn't construct. Wards evidence is unlikely to be the golden bullet anti-DOC people are looking for.

I reiterate: if you come as a guest to my house you come acknowledge my house rules. If you don't like my rules then I respect your rigth to decline my invitation.

As an aside I watched a bit of TV on Saturday night. Grand designs had this show about an English woodsman who wanted to build a house in a forest. For some reason which I missed the forest was protected land. It took him 10 years to get consent to build what was essentially a one bedroom woodsmans hut. The hut was worth nothing because he couldn't sell it - when he died or move on he had to pull it down. He knew the rules yet still built. NZ isn't the only country hard on its green spaces! NZ's disquiet with digging a huge great hole in a National Park is not out of step with other nations.

[minimoke]

Its a pity what is to become of the CPP? (Coal Processing Plant) and other infastructure? Solid Engery seem keen as mustard to buy the lot. What about our shares? How do we stand if this eventually happens?

The CCP will be sold. Its worth, say $20m - the cost of the build. However its value is reliant on getting the coal to Ikamautua where they have another $10m of capital. Trouble is Solid Energy has taken over the lease of the land. These lease arrangements are before the court at the moment but SE have said they will ask PRC to remove the plant from the land. Coal handling could be worth $30m or nothing.

How much is the tunnel and face worth? Its been suggested $100m could be needed to get it open again. Despite the work to date the mine workings may not be worth that much.

How much is the coal worth. Well PRC were going to take 1/3 of the likely resource. They reckon its high quality but others suggest not enough samples were taken to know for sure

Anyone prepared to put a value on PRC. I'll get the ball rolling with a back of a match box analysis of $50m.

If the receivers can get $50m NZO gets its cash back. Thats why I suspect they have been "generous" in bumping unsecured creditors ahead of themselves. Looks good now- but NZO are confident the money will come back eventually. Why are they confident - possibly becasue they have a hand at the table around which we are bystanders waiting for the draw of the cards.

$50m will pretty much be break even point - so share holders get nothing. There's 405m shares - so for every $10m in net cash (over the $50m) from the sale shareholders get $0.025 a share.

NZO hold roughly 30% of PRC. Say they raised $100m and bid $100m for outright ownership of PRC. $50m would go to pay creditors of which NZO is a part - so they get $12m this loot back immediately. Of the other $50m they'll get 30% or another $15m. So for $73m they (and perhaps some Indian backing) get to own PRC outright with $27m cash to get the miners out and open the mine.

Could Solid Energy match $100m. I don't think so. They need a fair bit of cash for their lignite plans and one of the reasons Govt is wanting to flick the SOE is to help it raise funds in the capital markets.

[brucey09]

Snrs
The day of explosion I bought 14k shares - market 88c then I think the value is 88c. If I pay 37c ($150m for $400m shareholders) then the value is still 88c in operation?
$50m payout creditors with $100m extra reopening charge?

[minimoke]

Snrs
market 88c then I think the value is 88c.
And there perhaps is a clue. BHP, Rio, the Chinese and Indians did not think PRC was worth $352m (405m shares x $0.88). If they did they would have been in the market to buy. At $0.88 they figured PRC was over valued - but by how much? Lets assume 25%. Lets assume they thought PRC, pre- explosion was probably worth $264m. Thats its value as a mine where all the infrastructure construction has been done and coal is coming out and its all looking quite positive.

Now we have a mine that arguably needs $100m in capital to get it back to the same position. Shall we knock that $100m off the $264m leaving us a sale price of $164m.

There is risk around the rail head - it could be say $20m to get that re established if SE win their current court proceedings. What have we got - $144m.

PRC are a distressed seller - not a good spot to be in when you are selling. Thats a purchase at discount situation - shall we say 50% discount.

What are we left with now - somewhere around $70m. $50m to creditors and $20m to shareholders?

[Ian]

Slightly flawed argument
The value of PRC prior to the explosion was around 95c (is this a realistic value of what PRC would be worth once /if is back up and running ? Maybe, Maybe less since there may be more hurdles to overcome in the future , Maybe more since it will be better managed)
PRC at 95c back then also had a lot of debt so if you’re comparing what PRC is worth now without any debt you should really add that back to get the value of the asset. Not sure what the debt was back then off the top of my head ($100m ?)
Then take off the cost of getting it back online (your 120m) and to repay the 50m debt and discount it for the risk at 50%
Gets you to a figure of around 38cents per share back to shareholders
Lots of assumptions and a lot of variance, my pick somewhere in the middle



And there perhaps is a clue. BHP, Rio, the Chinese and Indians did not think PRC was worth $352m (405m shares x $0.88). If they did they would have been in the market to buy. At $0.88 they figured PRC was over valued - but by how much? Lets assume 25%. Lets assume they thought PRC, pre- explosion was probably worth $264m. Thats its value as a mine where all the infrastructure construction has been done and coal is coming out and its all looking quite positive.

Now we have a mine that arguably needs $100m in capital to get it back to the same position. Shall we knock that $100m off the $264m leaving us a sale price of $164m.

There is risk around the rail head - it could be say $20m to get that re established if SE win their current court proceedings. What have we got - $144m.

PRC are a distressed seller - not a good spot to be in when you are selling. Thats a purchase at discount situation - shall we say 50% discount.

What are we left with now - somewhere around $70m. $50m to creditors and $20m to shareholders?

[minimoke]

Slightly flawed argument
Agreed - I'm just making a back of a matchbox stab.

The value of PRC prior to the explosion was around 95c
Last sale price was $0.88


Gets you to a figure of around 38cents per share back to shareholders
Netting $0.38 means a sale of $154m plus clearing of approx $50m in debts - so around $200m. Thats a bit rich I think. But then again my $70m could be too low (or perhaps generous)
[/QUOTE]

[Ian]

yep Minimoke lots of unknowns and back of the envelope – I’m certainly no expect either

[digger]

I reiterate: if you come as a guest to my house you come acknowledge my house rules. If you don't like my rules then I respect your rigth to decline my invitation.
.

That is certainly not a fair comparsion with DOC. You and you and partner are very likely to 100% to agree ahead of time what these rules are not so with DOC. The consent that PIKE got to underground mine on Doc land was agreed by DOC but clearly inside DOC strong opposition existed with an intension to fustrate at every opportunity.PW told me that DOC was clear that no track was to go beyond the tunnel entrance when one extending up and above the mine would have added greatly to safety.
What i would like you are anyone else to tell is why within 48 hours of the tragedy DOC suddenly agreed with a track being extended beyond the tunnel entrance.Surely all these very important DOC principles that applied prior to the explosion still applied afterward. What suddenly shut up the the anti-mining side of DOC

For sure if there is to be a PIKE-2 it must never go ahead under the same frustration level that PIKE-1 experienced.

[minimoke]

The consent that PIKE got to underground mine on Doc land was agreed by DOC but clearly inside DOC strong opposition existed with an intension to fustrate at every opportunity.
Not quite. in 1999 PRC was given all the consents it needed.
DOC then appealed those decisions.

In 2004 the Environment Court gave PRC permission for the mine ventilation shaft, water supply pipeline, fan house and fan, standby diesel generator and diesel tank; to undertake underground coal mining, including stone drive, ventilation shaft, and emergency exits and consent to undertake earthworks and land disturbance required for construction of amenities area, including rock disposal

A DOC agreement noted access for four emergency exits from the Mine to the Western escarpment, ventilation shaft and fan house

In 2006 DOC gave an exploration access agreement granting access to public conservation land for 19 years. The exploration agreements allowed for flexibility when drilling new exploratory holes within the wider minerals permit area

These are known facts. Of course DOC would have been telling PW to operate within the approval rules - but these rules did not prevent the building of an extra escape shaft.



PW told me that DOC was clear that no track was to go beyond the tunnel entrance when one extending up and above the mine would have added greatly to safety.
DOC is not the final arbiter in these matters. PRC is able to apply for variations at any time and can challenge any decisions to the Environment Court. There is not much evidence to suggest PRC did this.


What i would like you are anyone else to tell is why within 48 hours of the tragedy DOC suddenly agreed with a track being extended beyond the tunnel entrance. Surely all these very important DOC principles that applied prior to the explosion still applied afterward. What suddenly shut up the the anti-mining side of DOC
I'd have thought the answer to that was pretty obvious. At the time the police and PW were holding out hope that the miners were still alive. DOC was possibly putting the value of human life above the value of a bit of greenery, snails and whatever else they were hoping to protect.

It was PRC's job to prevent harm befalling their miners. It is DOC's obligation to do what it can to assist in the saving of life when PRC's operations fail.


For sure if there is to be a PIKE-2 it must never go ahead under the same frustration level that PIKE-1 experienced. If you can't stand the heat don't enter the kitchen. If you think mining is about to get easier you're sadly deluded. The rules are going to get tougher

[Monkey Poms]

I shouldn't worry too much if Devious Don manages to obtain Pike's state-of-the-art rail loading facility
at Ikamatua. It would probably end up as a 'white elephant' to Solid Energy if he is out-bid in the bidding process to buy
Pike.
With two Caterpillar 966 front end loaders and the aid of a two-way radio between train driver and shovel operator,
I can load a 1200 tonne train in 55 minutes. Full production, Pike would need to load 3-4 trains a day. This could be
put in place quickly once planning permission is granted for this facility. It wouldn't take long for a concrete pad in
and around the railway lines to be laid. Cost? Cherry-bobs.

Should Ikamatua become a bummer for Solid Energy, someone should pay the price for wasting tax payers money.
PS. Anyone know how many ks from Ikamatua to Solid Energy's nearest coal mining facility?
Monkey Poms

[minimoke]

This could be put in place quickly once planning permission is granted for this facility. It wouldn't take long for a concrete pad in
and around the railway lines to be laid. Cost? Cherry-bobs.
If it is so cheap and easy why did PRC spend $20m developing the facility they did?



PS. Anyone know how many ks from Ikamatua to Solid Energy's nearest coal mining facility?
Monkey Poms
Say 130kms to Stockton (north of Westport) and around 65kms to Spring Creek (north of Greymouth). Not on state highways though!

[Monkey Poms]

If it is so cheap and easy why did PRC spend $20m developing the facility they did?
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
Minimoke it works very well,looks impressive. MP

Solid Energy's proposed new briquetting plant will also look very impressive.Will it turn lignite, one of the world's
smokiest, polluting type of fuels into a sought-after high-grade, pollution-free fuel, by removing some of the moisture
content?
I find that if you put crap into the process at one end, you will get crap out at the other end. MP
__________________________________________________ ______________________________________________

Say 130kms to Stockton (north of Westport) and around 65kms to Spring Creek (north of Greymouth). Not on state highways though!
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
Now for the difficult bit. How many possible or actual train loading points would Devious Don's coal have to pass by road
before it reaches Ikamatua?

Monkey Poms.

[Balance]

More revelations about PRC was running the mine (actually, not running the mine) :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10753287

#@%#@*^#@ - unbelievable that a mine like Pike River was allowed to operate the way it did. And unbelievable that the rescue effort was managed by people with bugger all knowledge about mining!

Excerpts :

" when asked to provide a detailed mine layout, a company official printed out old plans and hand drew a series of recent extensions."

" the company had no detail on how many men were inside its mine, where they had been working or what could have happened to cause the explosion."

" MRS spent a significant amount of time trying to gather the information it required. There was very little assistance from Pike."

And personnel from the Department of Labor? Fat cats sucking on taxpayers' tits :

" a call by mines rescue experts to seal the explosion-hit Pike River mine was overruled by Department of Labour staff with little mining experience."

" admitted the department team she led had suppressed debate on the possibility of sealing."

" It was also revealed police asked the Department of Labour for a 'Mining 101' paper to help them understand coal mining terminology during the Pike River disaster. But the briefing was prepared by a staff member with no background in underground coal mines rescue."

[minimoke]

And personnel from the Department of Labor? Fat cats sucking on taxpayers' tits :
And in all its years of operation OSH did not issue PRC with one single:
- Improvement Notice ("this thing is a bit dodgy please fix it") or
- Prohibition notice ("this thing is way too dangerous - you can't use it til its fixed")

Seems like OSH just goes around having cups of teas and being nice to employers while in the process of educating them.

[Balance]

And in all its years of operation OSH did not issue PRC with one single:
- Improvement Notice ("this thing is a bit dodgy please fix it") or
- Prohibition notice ("this thing is way too dangerous - you can't use it til its fixed")

Seems like OSH just goes around having cups of teas and being nice to employers while in the process of educating them.

Why do I get the impression that PRC management are very good mushroom farmers?

Feed the mine inspectors enough horse dung and they are perfectly happy to be in the dark.

OSH has a lot to answer to - 29 dead miners - for allowing a non-compliant mine to operate if the line of questioning being followed today is any guide.

Excerpt :

The Department of Labour was currently looking at its own role and responsibility of its coal mining inspectors who had allowed the "non compliant" Pike River mine to operate, Hampton said.

"Do you understand the magnitude of the possible conflict of interest here where you had an explosion where 29 men died?," he said.

"You're looking at your own," Hampton told Haines.

Haines said the department had commissioned a number of external reviews of the work of its mine inspectors at Pike River, and the department's role advising the government on appropriate regulation and policy.

[dsurf]

the intentions of the mine were & continue to be to create employment and un-lock wealth for all of NZ. I believe all workers, SH, management etc had the same purpose. It turned out to be a F......U. but the intentions were good. The purpose of the enquiry is to find out what went wrong & move on safely. There is no point dwelling on the past or wishing for blood from people who I believe only had good intentions. A lot too learn but time to move on.

[Oiler]

the intentions of the mine were & continue to be to create employment and un-lock wealth for all of NZ. I believe all workers, SH, management etc had the same purpose. It turned out to be a F......U. but the intentions were good. The purpose of the enquiry is to find out what went wrong & move on safely. There is no point dwelling on the past or wishing for blood from people who I believe only had good intentions. A lot too learn but time to move on.

Well said surf, I couldn't agree with you more. There has been serious blunders along the way but lets keep this inquiry moving forward and learn from the past mistakes.

[Balance]

the intentions of the mine were & continue to be to create employment and un-lock wealth for all of NZ. I believe all workers, SH, management etc had the same purpose. It turned out to be a F......U. but the intentions were good. The purpose of the enquiry is to find out what went wrong & move on safely. There is no point dwelling on the past or wishing for blood from people who I believe only had good intentions. A lot too learn but time to move on.

As is now famously said : "Seems like greed is not only good, it is now legal."

[Queenstfarmer]

Yeah..I watched that movie on TV the other night too..YAWN..anything new to add??

[J R Ewing]

the intentions of the mine were & continue to be to create employment and un-lock wealth for all of NZ. I believe all workers, SH, management etc had the same purpose. It turned out to be a F......U. but the intentions were good. The purpose of the enquiry is to find out what went wrong & move on safely. There is no point dwelling on the past or wishing for blood from people who I believe only had good intentions. A lot too learn but time to move on.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Balance]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

In this case it was paved with incompetence, cover-ups, cutting corners, mismanagement and above all, misinformation & deceit masque-rating as good intentions.

More revelations today.

[minimoke]

the intentions of the mine were & continue to be to create employment and un-lock wealth for all of NZ.

C'mon - lets not start re-writing history. The intention of the mine was to simply produce and export coal at a profit to the benifit of its shareholders who included Indians. Investors were motivated by the strong projected cash flows, the US$ long term contracts, the prospect of going deeper into the Paproa seam and possible other coal mine ventures. Lets not dress this up as an employment creation opportunity or one where the benigifts would flow to all NZ'ers. If you want a sense of the intentions read the positive posts earlier in this thread - that will give you a sense of what investors were looking for. Lets be frank - they were making a punt on the back of substantial profits. And there is nothing wrong with that.


I believe all workers, SH, management etc had the same purpose. No they didn't. Each would have been motivated for different reasons.

It turned out to be a F......U. but the intentions were good. A bit of an understatement. But the intentions can't be described simply as good. A nun working a soup kitchen would have good intentions but the intentions of PRC were simple - build a mine and get it producing. Those intentions were placed under more and more pressure as time went on.


The purpose of the enquiry is to find out what went wrong & move on safely. There is no point dwelling on the past or wishing for blood from people who I believe only had good intentions. A lot too learn but time to move on.There is a lot of point dwelling on the past. By looking at the past we might learn for the future. We might learn what motivates developers and investors and we might be able to make a better judgement of intention than if we blindly invest in new companies naivly thinking everyone behind that venture has good intentions.

[Balance]

Well spoken and written, Mini.

The cover-up brigade obviously wants all the unpleasant details submerged as 'the past' - the past including their unbridled unqualified support and encouragement of PRC and NZOG board/management.

Today's revelations show how the errors of PRC's management way extended well beyond the initial gross safety mismanagement of the mine, resulting in the death of the miners but the gross mishandling of the aftermath.

Imagine family members going into a meeting, being told first of rescue efforts being initiated, by PW (when he knew it was all over) and then, being told by the Police all hope is gone.

Bloody disgrace.

[jonny5]

Perhaps an out of place philosophical musing:

We as humans (in companies, as investors, and representatives of government) constantly seek the appropriate balance between risk and reward. From time to time, significant events occur which shift our consensus view on the appropriate balance, and we react to reflect this new standard.

Limited liability is a blessing for human progression, and a curse for human life.

J5

[minimoke]

Perhaps an out of place philosophical musing:
Some would say there is no place with philosophical musing with regard to PRC. Perhaps with ALF as we ponder the money beig put aside for a car now being wrth a bolwers hat - but not withPRC.


We as humans (in companies, as investors, and representatives of government) constantly seek the appropriate balance between risk and reward. Methinks you are under the mistaken impression PRC knew their risks and were in a position to make that balancing call. PRC thought there was no risk of explosion in their gassy mine. With risk there comes preparation for that risk to occur. In PRC's case they saw no risk so things like smoke lines were disconnected, they moved self rescuers without telling anyone and thought a 8 people at a time doing a 108m climb was fine.

From time to time, significant events occur which shift our consensus view on the appropriate balance, and we react to reflect this new standard. There was never any consensus on PRC's risk / reward balance. You've been reading too much into the IPCC reports. Some thought the potential reward well worth the risk - its just they didn't understand the risk. Some thought PRC was still too risky - that's why they didn't invest.

[jonny5]

With respect, you read too much into my musings.

In any case, oblivion inarguably holds an honorable mention in history's 'risk hall of fame'. Asbestos, cigarettes, the Hindenburg...

Difficult to approach consensus without historic precedent. Expect regulation

J5

[minimoke]

Anyone interested in what Peter Withall has to say about their emergency response can click here; http://www.3news.co.nz/Default.aspx?TabID=1568&articleID=224580

H (http://www.3news.co.nz/Default.aspx?TabID=1568&articleID=224580)e is about to take the stand.

[iceman]

Fresh from Yahoo news website:

The buyer of Pike River Coal mine will have to have a body recovery plan if it wants a mining licence, Prime Minister John Key says.

Mr Key set down the condition for the sale of the mine on Thursday, after talking to families of the 29 workers killed in the explosions in November last year.

"For a sale to take place actually there has to be a transfer of the mining licence," Mr Key said in Greymouth.

"The government's made clear that it is our expectation that a credible plan would be established and followed through before a sale could take place," he said.
"I promised to do whatever I could to get men out of the mine and that promise remains."

[Balance]

PRC management at work.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10753747

Excerpts :

"The only other official call she received was just before Christmas, from Pike River Coal, asking her children's names because Prime Minister John Key wanted to send them a card. It never arrived."

"That first weekend, someone from Mines Rescue broke rank and told them the mine was a "fiery inferno". It was then with disbelief, three days after the blast, that she heard Mr Whittall say the men could be at a fresh air base and would be hungry when they came out. The cruel charade continued until the second explosion, she said."

[minimoke]

Jeez, who'de be a CEO. That was just some terribly sad testimony.

[Balance]

Interesting - PW starting to bring Gordon Ward's name into the inquiry with strategic references to Gordon's role in the mine development.

Meanwhile, PW continues to defend the use of the ventilation shaft as the second exit - despite not turning up for a safety drill, and despite the fact that not one of the 4 who tried climbing the shaft could make it to the surface. And the drill was done under non-stress conditions.

And he did not take up the idea of a refuge base to increase safety conditions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10753742

Excerpt :

"Mr Whittall also said that the day a 55m-high vertical escape ladder was tested, he was dressed to go underground and staff were waiting for him in the mine, but he was redirected to corporate matters and spent the day in his office in overalls. Only two of the four men made it part of the way up because it was such a demanding climb, he said."

.................................................. ................................. Essential areas of safety & Environment? ........................................

What does PRC's website state about his role in PRC?

Excerpt from www.pike.co.nz : "Prior to his appointment as Chief Executive, he was Pike's General Manager Mines, a position he held since joining Pike in 2005. During that time he was responsible for all operational aspects of the business including mine design and development, and the essential areas of safety and environment."

[dsurf]

Firm bid on the table by the end of the month for PRC

"Receiver Malcolm Hollis of PricewaterhouseCoopers said reclaiming the tunnel also made commercial sense.

"We are happy with the interest we have in the mine. There is international and local interest but that is confidential information. Intended parties will need to have a firm bid on the table at the end of the month - we will then have a far clearer picture of where parties are at."

[minimoke]

Peter Withall latest casualty - just been made redundant.

[kiwitrev]

End of the month is tomorrow. Do you mean end of October???

[dsurf]

End of the month is tomorrow. Do you mean end of October???

Herald article was printed on 29th Sep so I assume they meant Sep. Herald is not the greatest source but was a direct quote. does not mean of course that this is the end of the process. If enough interested parties there may be shortlisting, further negotions etc. Of course there may not be many bids & come down to S.E. paying off the creditors. Hard too know but the reciever may make a statement shortly as you would think some information on where the process is at needs to be released (not the details though).

[minimoke]

It was originally hoped the sale process would be complete by the end of August. This got pushed out due to Due Diligence requirements. The latest, from what I gather, is that the recievers expect to have final bids in by the end of September and that it remains unlikely the sale process will be completed by Christmas 2011.

I reckon the receivers hope to have final bids by the end of September - but there remains flexibility on that date. I wouldn't be holding my breath on a sale anytime soon.

[kiwitrev]

Directors Jagatramtka (Gujarat NRE) have resigned as directors of PRC. Any thoughts whether this means they are out of the bidding process or clearing the way because they are have got the nod???

[Mr Tommy]

Todays Dominion has a short one liner that Solid Energy and a Chinese company have put in a JV bid to buy Pike.

[minimoke]

Todays Dominion has a short one liner that Solid Energy and a Chinese company have put in a JV bid to buy Pike.
And final bid deadline extended to 21 October

[LIO]

I hope it doesn't go to Solid Energy. Is it possible that NZO could join forces with an experienced overseas miner to put in a JV bid ? They would effectively be paying themselves 30% of the purchase price, so they'd be in a position to put in a higher bid wouldn't they ?

[Mr Tommy]

I hope it doesn't go to Solid Energy.

tv3 reported it as well

http://www.3news.co.nz/Solid-Energy-joins-Chinese-in-Pike-River-bid/tabid/423/articleID/228564/Default.aspx

[Mr Tommy]

Companies owed money by the Pike River Coal Company have voted overwhelmingly to accept a payment plan, which will pump $3 million back into the ailing West Coast economy in the next few weeks. Voting on the early payment plan, put forward by receivers PricewaterhouseCoopers, closed on Friday and 288 out of 468 votes were returned every one of them accepting the deal.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10758034

[Monkey Poms]

I hope it doesn't go to Solid Energy. Is it possible that NZO could join forces with an experienced overseas miner to put in a JV bid ? They would effectively be paying themselves 30% of the purchase price, so they'd be in a position to put in a higher bid wouldn't they ?

I am in the same frame of mind as you Lio,I hope Solid Energy do not get the mine.
My guess is that if a bid is not acceptable to NZOG they will step in together with the Indians
and possibly a third partner ( Japanese trading company ). This i would like to see, to
create competition regarding the sale price of Pike's future coal production.

I entered a competition at the weekend. An outdoor clothing company held a ten-question quiz subject NZ
to promote travel to New Zealand. Can you believe it - I won it! The prize - a pair of walking boots.
I'd gladly give this prize away if I could come a miserable third to a higher winning entrant
in Digger's competition on the sale price of Pike.

Monkey Poms.

[minimoke]

This i would like to see, to
create competition regarding the sale price of Pike's future coal production.

I wouldn't have thought Pikes production levels would have been able to influence coal prices one iota. NZ alone hardly amount to 1% of world production so ownership is meaningless in terms of influencing price

[LIO]

Hi MP, " ...... if a bid is not acceptable to NZOG ".......

Is NZOG able to have any say with regard to the bids ? Or will it be entirely the decision of the receivers ?

[kiwitrev]

Hi Lio
If NZO are in the bidding process in any way one would think they must be excluded from any privileged info. However if they are not bidding, as the major secured creditor, I would expect they will be kept in the loop but not able to influence the Receivers.

[Monkey Poms]

Hi MP, " ...... if a bid is not acceptable to NZOG ".......

Is NZOG able to have any say with regard to the bids ? Or will it be entirely the decision of the receivers ?

Hi Lio, NZOG called in the Receivers. It is stated in the Sale of the Mine Prospectus that the Receivers have the absolute
right to stop the sale at any time. It would be naive for me to think NZOG don't know what bids are on the table.

Monkey Poms.

[Monkey Poms]

I wouldn't have thought Pikes production levels would have been able to influence coal prices one iota. NZ alone hardly amount to 1% of world production so ownership is meaningless in terms of influencing price

Minimoke I am not suggesting that by having another partner for Pike ( possibly a coal trading company ), may result
in influencing the price of coking coal on the world markets.

Should a company such as Mitsubishi coal take a stake in Pike with NZOG it would be a huge advantage to enable Pike to
obtain the best price available at the time of any coal sales.
You may have read some of my posts rabbiting on about producing a 1% ash coal without the buyers paying
some sort of premium for this product, or the sale of coal to Solid Energy and Pike being paid in return
half the true value for the coal. Lack of experience on the coal sales side could be addressed if Pike had
a shareholder such as Mitsubishi, for example, with their vast knowledge of the international coal markets.

Monkey Poms.

[minimoke]

MP
I seem to recall that Solid Energy took their pricing lead off BHP thus they are a follower rather than price setter. SE also said, of Pikes coal, that the quality wasn't there hence the lower price. In response I recall Pike said it was more pre-production coal rather than the coal they expected to produce once full scale production got under way. I would have thought that no matter who the new owner is they would want to maximise the sale price of the coal. Whether or not Solid Energy is the new owner I'd also have thought that coals buyers would be comparing the prices of the two mines given they are pretty much close neighbors at the bottom of the Pacific.

I'm backing a SE purchase, at this stage as I intend buying into the SE IPO. If existign PRC holders want a continued stake in Pike, this might be the only way of achieving it.

As an aside, if Pike was such a good deal why would Mitsubishi (or the like) not have tried to buy PRC pre-explosion. Its not like there was shortage of opportunity.

[Monkey Poms]

Pike River: Solid Energy's anti-competitiveness criticised
7:11 PM Tuesday Oct 18, 2011
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Pike River receivers accused Solid Energy of trying to undermine the price for the whole development. Photo / Simon Baker
The High Court has rapped Solid Energy on the knuckles for an anti-competitive attempt to corner coal-handling facilities vital to the Pike River mine's viability, just as receivers were preparing the damaged but potentially valuable mine for sale.

The Pike River receivers accused the state-owned coal miner of trying to undermine the price for the whole development by making it attractive only to Solid Energy as a buyer, and sought relief in the High Court.

They said Solid Energy did this by securing the reassignment of the 25 year leases held by Pike River on farmland at Ikamatua, near Greymouth, where $10.5 million had been spent on the only long train coal-loading facility on the West Coast.

Two farming families were to be paid a total of $78,000 a year in lease fees for the big side-loop at Ikamatua.

In a series of transactions in March, both family farming businesses received non-refundable incentive payments of $15,000 each from Solid Energy for agreeing to cancel with Pike and reassign to Solid Energy.


This, in effect, broke Pike River's route for coal for export.

Each family farm business would have earned a further $65,000, for a total of $80,000 each, if the receivers had lost the High Court case and there was no longer any realistic chance of relief against cancellation.

Judge Joe Williams found in the receivers' favour, allowing them to attempt to extract the best price from an unknown range of bidders, of whom Solid Energy is the only one identified, and is likely to include potential foreign owners.

I am well satisfied that Ikamatua is a core strategic asset to Pike River and that its loss would materially devalue Pike River's purchaser access for anti-competitive reasons, he said.

John Fisk of accounting firm PwC, one of the Pike River receivers told BusinessDesk: The application has been granted, largely on terms we proposed, so we are very pleased with the decision.

O'Malley Farming and H&M Trustee Five cancelled their leases with Pike River, citing the receivership as grounds. But Williams found there was ample precedent for granting relief where receivers were making a credible effort to prepare a package of assets for the best possible sale, to assist creditors and insurers.

Williams strikes a compromise by allowing the Pike receivers a two-year lease, to give time for an orderly sales process, after which the landowners may again apply to cancel their leases with Pike.

Solid Energy's interest in Ikamatua stems from an explosion in the volume of high-value coking coal, used in steel-making, being sold into export markets where the price for the high temperature, relatively low emissions coal has jumped in response to Asian economies' urban and industrial construction booms.

It has extensive coal mining operations to the north, in the same coal seam as Pike River was mining underground in the Paparoa Ranges and is planning to double production.

It also has a monopoly over KiwiRail's coal-carrying capacity on the Midland Line from Westport to the Port of Lyttelton, for export shipment.

Pike had one million tonnes a year capacity under a contract with Solid Energy, which it cancelled by invoking force majeure clauses after the catastrophic explosions and subsequent receivership, while promising to keep paying the rent in advance, unless three months' notice was given.

It has since leased capacity to Bathurst Resources, an Australian developer of a series of mines on the Denniston plateau above Westport, in a transport-sharing arrangement involving shipment from Westport to New Plymouth for export as capacity on the Midland Line becomes constrained.

- BusinessDesk

Monkey Poms.

[pietrade]

It's really good to see that justice prevailed and S.E's underhand tactic has failed.

[brucey09]

Snr Monkey
Solid Energy is a public company trying to take off NZ residents (prc shareholders). How does this help ? Is this honest business?

[minimoke]

Snr Monkey
Solid Energy is a public company trying to take off NZ residents (prc shareholders). How does this help ? Is this honest business?Brucey09, Solid Energy is a State Owned Enterprise 100% owned by all NZ tax payers for the benefit of all New Zealanders. Whereas PRC is only partially owned by New Zealanders who are interested in the NZ capital markets in which there is risk and for the sole benefit of Shareholders who include Indian companies.

Solid Energy has a responsibility to do its best for its owners (NZ'ers) and it is honest business to do what it legally can to purchase future assets for as low a price as possible. Attempting to put up barriers for other market entrants is no different from what we have seen by the likes Air NZ (another company substantially owned by NZ tax payer) who play games to ensure their monoply position isn't threatened (refer Origin Pacific), to Telecom who has had many raps over the knuckles.

Bidders in PRC will be pondering the freeze on lease arrangements for two years and wondering what they can do when that time is up. And what about the two farmers - hopefully the PRC receivers will pay them $80,000 a year which is now the income they don't have from Solid Energy.

Sure Solid Energy got a wrap over the knuckles, but it wasn't a spanking.

[fabs]

Basically right with most of your points above.
Compensation to farmers unlikely, they took a gamble and lost as did S/E.
Any winning bidder will indeed have 2 yrs to look for an alternative, may have still a valid right of renewal, if not could take some lengthy legal wrangling knowing how these things go.
Anyway not much worthwhile quantity,s of coal coming out till they comply with lengthy list of requirements slapped on them by any number of authority,s you care to mention.
Should S/E out bid the touted long list of interested party,s then may have to pay a fair price for it.

BTW. Not a direct holder of PC shares.

[Balance]

Basically right with most of your points above.
Compensation to farmers unlikely, they took a gamble and lost as did S/E.
Any winning bidder will indeed have 2 yrs to look for an alternative, may have still a valid right of renewal, if not could take some lengthy legal wrangling knowing how these things go.
Anyway not much worthwhile quantity,s of coal coming out till they comply with lengthy list of requirements slapped on them by any number of authority,s you care to mention.
Should S/E out bid the touted long list of interested party,s then may have to pay a fair price for it.

BTW. Not a direct holder of PC shares.

S/E overplayed its hand - now the whole world knows that despite S/E attempting to put down PRC as a valuable coal mine, its dirty tricks show S/E is actually very keen and in fact, desperate to gain control of PRC.

[LIO]

Hi MM,
In my opinion, the fact that AirNZ and Telecom resort to similar tricks does not make it 'honest business'. As a taxpayer I'd prefer to see SE setting a better example.
In fact, I see SE's boss and his tactics serving to show NZOG in a good light as a more ethical corporate citizen !

Balance,
I agree. The 'dirty tricks' will probably backfire on them. 1. They will have very effectively alienated the receivers. 2. Their desperation, as you suggest, is a very good advetisement to the other bidders.

[maucat41]

Bidding process ends Friday (correct me if I'm wrong). What outcome are we expecting?

[minimoke]

Hi MM,
In my opinion, the fact that AirNZ and Telecom resort to similar tricks does not make it 'honest business'. As a taxpayer I'd prefer to see SE setting a better example.
In fact, I see SE's boss and his tactics serving to show NZOG in a good light as a more ethical corporate citizen !

Balance,
I agree. The 'dirty tricks' will probably backfire on them. 1. They will have very effectively alienated the receivers. 2. Their desperation, as you suggest, is a very good advetisement to the other bidders.
Dirty Tricks? How long do you think it will be before the rail head is needed by the new owners of Pike. I reckon at least two years. So a two year stay on the lease arrangements is hardly a slap on the wrist.

And what purpose is there in having a rail head when Solid Energy own the railway line from Greymouth to Christchurch? Unless the new owners are going to stump up for the cost of a new wharf to barge the coal out of the West Coast!

[Mr Tommy]

Bids for the assets of Pike River Coal are due with its receivers today, and an offer of roughly $50 million or better would clear the failed company's debts.

If any successful bid is worth more than $50m, there may be some return to Pike River's 7000 shareholders, including 29 per cent owner New Zealand Oil & Gas (NZOG). A low price could repay all of NZOG's $38m claim but leave other creditors out in the cold, a source said.

The Pike River mine may hold billions of dollars worth of coal.

State-owned coal company Solid Energy appears to be in the box seat to buy Pike River Coal, in a deal understood to involve a Chinese state-owned coal mining company. Solid Energy has neither confirmed nor denied rumours of a joint venture with a Chinese company.

However, sources said there may one or two other bids.

Pike River Coal receiver John Fisk said yesterday he expected more than one bid by 5pm today, but would not identify any of the bidders, other than to say they included overseas parties.

Given that a deal is likely to be subject to approval by the Overseas Investment Office and other government bodies, a sale would be lucky to go through by Christmas. The time taken would depend on what conditions bidders put on their offers, Fisk said.

Pike River Coal is in receivership after a mine explosion in November last year which killed 29 workers.

The company's failure saw the value of NZOG's investment in Pike River Coal shares written off. Before the explosion Pike River Coal had amarket value of about $400m.

It is unlikely any buyer of Pike River Coal would be able to reopen the mine for two to three years, sources said.

Solid Energy is well placed to secure the Pike River Coal assets, after confirming yesterday it will sub-lease the $10m coal stockpile and rail loadout facility at Ikamatua on the West Coast for two years. The facility was developed by Pike River Coal.

A recent High Court judgment said Ikamatua was a core asset of Pike River Coal and that its loss would materially devalue the company as an integrated operation. The court said losing the lease on the coal handling facility in effect blocked the company's coal exports.

There is little prospect of Pike River Coal's new owners needing the facility for the next two years, but they will want to know they can get access before doing a deal.

Solid Energy now has exclusive rights to that facility for two years and wants to continue the lease for 25 years. That leaves the window open for another buyer of Pike River Coal to lease the facility.

Ad Feedback It is understood that the receivers hoped the lease would run just till a new owner bought Pike River Coal, at which point they could lease the facility from the landowners.

It seems now that any new owner of Pike River Coal apart from Solid Energy may have to negotiate with Solid Energy and the port and rail companies the use of the coal handling facility and the arrangements to transport coal to Lyttelton.

The alternative could be to take coal by barge from the West Coast, but that would be an extra cost when there is already a transport system available.

Solid Energy has sole rights over KiwiRail's coal-carrying capacity on the Midland line from Westport to Lyttelton.

Under an early payment plan, the receivers will pay out almost $10 million on November 3, paying half the creditors in full, including trade creditors and staff, with the rest getting $10,000 and 20c in the dollar for anything above that.

Ikamatua Rail Loadout Facility

Pike River Coal was railing hard coking coal from the West Coast to the east coast Port of Lyttelton for export.

It had spent $10m on a loadout facility, 22 kilometres from its mine, near Ikamatua.

A coal conveyor was used to load trains with coal delivered by truck from Pike River Coal's coal preparation plant.

The trains carried the coal 250km to Lyttelton.

The plan was that, when the Pike River mine's production reached one million tonnes a year, trains would have been loaded at the rate of one or two a day.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/5825547/Bids-for-Pike-River-assets-due

[Xerof]

Fisk appears to have given a clue on price in his statement (if the whole statement is attributable to him) - OIO approval is only required for deals over 100 mill

[J R Ewing]

Fisk appears to have given a clue on price in his statement (if the whole statement is attributable to him) - OIO approval is only required for deals over 100 mill

I might be wrong but I think OIO approval may be required even if under 100m, if this is regarded as a strategic asset.

[Mr Tommy]

I might be wrong but I think OIO approval may be required even if under 100m, if this is regarded as a strategic asset.

From LINZ website
Overseas investors or associates of overseas investors may need to apply to the Overseas Investment Office (OIO) for consent if they plan to acquire:
•sensitive land or an interest in sensitive land (eg by buying shares in a company that owns sensitive land), or
•business assets worth more than $100 million, or
•fishing quota or an interest in fishing quota.

[Mr Tommy]

Todays dominion:

Shanxi makes bid for stake in Pike River Coal

Giant Chinese state-owned Shanxi Coal is understood to be in the running to buy Pike River Coal as part of a joint bid with New Zealand coal company Solid Energy.

Bids closed a week ago, with four players making offers, sources said.

One Indian company earlier interested in making an offer had pulled out, but another Indian company was still understood to be in the running, they said.

There has also been interest from an unnamed Australian company, but it remained unclear if it made a final bid.

Rumours have been around for a couple of weeks that a Chinese government agency was involved in a joint bid with Solid Energy for Pike.

Another industry source said if Shanxi joined Solid Energy as a partner in Pike River it could provide the financial muscle to reopen the mine and be a large customer, with Solid Energy providing the local expertise. China has a huge appetite for coal, which has been a key driver of its economic growth.

Chinese imports of coal have recently hit record levels, up 15 per cent in September to a record 19 million tonnes in a month.

There has been industry concern a Chinese or Indian company could come in with a high price and pick up the Pike River assets without the involvement of a local player.

The Pike mine remained a "technical challenge" and a player from overseas might not have the right skills to mine in what was a difficult area, a source said.

It would be surprising if the mine reopened within three to five years under new owners, sources said.

A joint-venture deal might also put Shanxi in a good position to take a stake in Solid Energy, should the Government decide to sell part of the company, an industry source said.

The Government says it plans to look at selling up to 49 per cent of three state-owned power companies, Solid Energy and reducing its holding in Air New Zealand should it be re-elected.

However, another source said a joint venture would not necessarily give Shanxi any advantage if part of Solid Energy were up for sale. Solid Energy already has a joint venture with international coal company Cargill, which bought 49 per cent of the Spring Creek underground coalmine near Greymouth four years ago.

Pike's receiver has declined to comment on the bidding.

Solid Energy has said it is interested in Pike, but it has refused to confirm or deny suggestions it will make a joint bid with a Chinese coal company.

The receivers want bidders to remain anonymous, given that a deal could be hampered if details are made public too soon.

Pike River collapsed into receivership almost a year ago, after a mine explosion that killed 29 men. It is expected the sale of the assets could take at least until Christmas to confirm, with foreign buyers facing Overseas Investment Office and other government approvals.

Ad Feedback A price of about $50 million would clear Pike's debts, with anything above that potentially offering some return to Pike shareholders. The Pike field holds billions of dollars of coal.

In the past year, Solid Energy posted revenues of $829m, and made an after-tax profit of $87.2m, up 29 per cent.

Shanxi Coal's website says it aims to become a "super-large" enterprise group in the next five years with a target of producing 50 million tonnes of coal a year and to handle trade of 100 million tonnes as an import-export business. Shanxi province is southwest of Beijing.

The company runs 20 coalmines and has assets of more than 13 billion remnimbi (NZ$2.5 billion) and more than 7000 staff. Shanxi Coal is one of the top 10 state-owned businesses in the province. Annual revenues were about 22 billion remnimbi, with profits of more than 1 billion remnimbi.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/5878668/Shanxi-makes-bid-for-stake-in-Pike-River-Coal

[neopoleII]

we have a govt. spending/borrowing 200mil a week, and some foriegner with 50mil walks in and buys up a 10billion asset, while we squabble over benefit payments and asset sales in our political run up.

hows hahaha spelt in chinese?

[Balance]

we have a govt. spending/borrowing 200mil a week, and some foriegner with 50mil walks in and buys up a 10billion asset, while we squabble over benefit payments and asset sales in our political run up.

hows hahaha spelt in chinese?

Forget about the Chinese.

Who bought Telecom and stripped billions out of it and left NZ with a hopelessly out-of-date telecommunication system?

Who bought Tranzrail and stripped hundreds of millions?

Who bought BNZ on a PE now of 1 and take billions out every 3 years?

Who sold highly inflated assets like Ansett and AAPT to Kiwis?

And the list goes on and on and on.

Think our bosom corporate friends in Australia and USA. With friends like them, who need enemies?

[moimoi]

From the Stuff article...""Pike River collapsed into receivership almost a year ago,....""

Collapsed into receivership?..Hardly!! More accurately.."the company's largest shareholder withdrew support and engineered the company's receivership to protect its own interests".

[neopoleII]

tel and tranz were local kiwis, who got "over the head clapping praise" for their $50k donation to the america's cup challenge in the 90's....... now living in Swiss land.

but yes..... i get your point and agree.

funny how looking at the political decisions of the day seems so childish......... no doubt....... we will look back at this moment in time one day and cringe as well.

maybe there should be a political school that every politician has to attend and then pass an exam.

it seem..........
to go fishing, hunting, own a dog, get married, drive a car, bike or plane, teach, build and heal, you have to have a license,
but to make babies, run a country, or convince punters to buy shares in your dreams requires only the desire to give it ago with no consequences.

[GTM 3442]

. . . to go fishing, hunting, own a dog, get married, drive a car, bike or plane, teach, build and heal, you have to have a license,
but to make babies, run a country, or convince punters to buy shares in your dreams requires only the desire to give it ago with no consequences.

Who'd issue the licences ?

[geezy]

Todays dominion:

Shanxi makes bid for stake in Pike River Coal

Giant Chinese state-owned Shanxi Coal is understood to be in the running to buy Pike River Coal as part of a joint bid with New Zealand coal company Solid Energy.

Bids closed a week ago, with four players making offers, sources said.

One Indian company earlier interested in making an offer had pulled out, but another Indian company was still understood to be in the running, they said.

There has also been interest from an unnamed Australian company, but it remained unclear if it made a final bid.

Rumours have been around for a couple of weeks that a Chinese government agency was involved in a joint bid with Solid Energy for Pike.

Another industry source said if Shanxi joined Solid Energy as a partner in Pike River it could provide the financial muscle to reopen the mine and be a large customer, with Solid Energy providing the local expertise. China has a huge appetite for coal, which has been a key driver of its economic growth.

Chinese imports of coal have recently hit record levels, up 15 per cent in September to a record 19 million tonnes in a month.

There has been industry concern a Chinese or Indian company could come in with a high price and pick up the Pike River assets without the involvement of a local player.

The Pike mine remained a "technical challenge" and a player from overseas might not have the right skills to mine in what was a difficult area, a source said.

It would be surprising if the mine reopened within three to five years under new owners, sources said.

A joint-venture deal might also put Shanxi in a good position to take a stake in Solid Energy, should the Government decide to sell part of the company, an industry source said.

The Government says it plans to look at selling up to 49 per cent of three state-owned power companies, Solid Energy and reducing its holding in Air New Zealand should it be re-elected.

However, another source said a joint venture would not necessarily give Shanxi any advantage if part of Solid Energy were up for sale. Solid Energy already has a joint venture with international coal company Cargill, which bought 49 per cent of the Spring Creek underground coalmine near Greymouth four years ago.

Pike's receiver has declined to comment on the bidding.

Solid Energy has said it is interested in Pike, but it has refused to confirm or deny suggestions it will make a joint bid with a Chinese coal company.

The receivers want bidders to remain anonymous, given that a deal could be hampered if details are made public too soon.

Pike River collapsed into receivership almost a year ago, after a mine explosion that killed 29 men. It is expected the sale of the assets could take at least until Christmas to confirm, with foreign buyers facing Overseas Investment Office and other government approvals.

Ad Feedback A price of about $50 million would clear Pike's debts, with anything above that potentially offering some return to Pike shareholders. The Pike field holds billions of dollars of coal.

In the past year, Solid Energy posted revenues of $829m, and made an after-tax profit of $87.2m, up 29 per cent.

Shanxi Coal's website says it aims to become a "super-large" enterprise group in the next five years with a target of producing 50 million tonnes of coal a year and to handle trade of 100 million tonnes as an import-export business. Shanxi province is southwest of Beijing.

The company runs 20 coalmines and has assets of more than 13 billion remnimbi (NZ$2.5 billion) and more than 7000 staff. Shanxi Coal is one of the top 10 state-owned businesses in the province. Annual revenues were about 22 billion remnimbi, with profits of more than 1 billion remnimbi.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/5878668/Shanxi-makes-bid-for-stake-in-Pike-River-Coal

hows DOE gonna react to the Chinese mining environmental history?

[Sideshow Bob]

Any correlation between bids closing for Pike past week and a 10% increase in the NZO share price in the last while?

[Balance]

hows DOE gonna react to the Chinese mining environmental history?

Good question.

How is NZ's environmental record and history like?

Clue : Total destruction of native kauri forests.

[Balance]

tel and tranz were local kiwis, who got "over the head clapping praise" for their $50k donation to the america's cup challenge in the 90's....... now living in Swiss land.

but yes..... i get your point and agree.

funny how looking at the political decisions of the day seems so childish......... no doubt....... we will look back at this moment in time one day and cringe as well.

maybe there should be a political school that every politician has to attend and then pass an exam.

it seem..........
to go fishing, hunting, own a dog, get married, drive a car, bike or plane, teach, build and heal, you have to have a license,
but to make babies, run a country, or convince punters to buy shares in your dreams requires only the desire to give it ago with no consequences.

Tel was stripped clean by Bell Atlantic & Ameritech, ably assisted by Rod Deane and his personally appointed managers. Remember the huge dividends and capital repayments and share buybacks etc? Who arranged the deal? Fay Richwhite and a few other Business Roundtable 'patriots'.

Tranzrail was stripped clean by Berkshire, ably assisted by the expats Fay Richwhite.

The local management were but highly paid puppets.

Solid Energy should be given funding by the govt top buy PRC to keep in NZ's hands. Unfortunately, any National govt is about staying in power and screwing the masses for the benefit of their mates in the Business Roundtable etc.

It is no accident that it is under a National Govt that Michael Fay is back in NZ, playing the patriotic card, to try and buy farmland cheap.

So better welcome the Chinese with open arms - they have never in their history exploited other countries - they were and is now more interested in promoting trade and securing long term supplies.

[Monkey Poms]

From the Stuff article...""Pike River collapsed into receivership almost a year ago,....""

Collapsed into receivership?..Hardly!! More accurately.."the company's largest shareholder withdrew support and engineered the company's receivership to protect its own interests".

Unfortunately Moimoi NZOG's route to protect its own interests was the only game in town. Posters are well aware of the value of Pikes assets
compared to its outstanding debts. Balance has drawn attention to the fact that NZ has lost control of ( Plum } assets to foreign companies and
the profits from those companies are not spent in New Zealand. it now looks increasingly likely that whichever company ends up with
Pike, has also a good chance of eventually ending up with a controling interest in Solid Energy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Elder (Solid Energy) thought Pikes production estimates were high and unachievable.
Despite the fact that Pike had two underperforming road cutting machines and one good AB20 and a
second AB20 machine on order, I heard that, for one 24 hour production period only, the miners
managed to produce a coal output tonnage close to the target equivalent of one million tones per year
with no problems with any of the pipework delivering coal through the flumes to the coal washing plant.

Monkey Poms.

[Balance]

The inquiry continues next week and this preview will give the die-hard Pikers less pause for thought :

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5924643/Mining-expert-frightened-by-Pike-River-mine

A Japanese mining expert with 40 years experience quit the Pike River mine after only three months because he feared it was going to explode.

The royal commission into the deaths of 29 men in a series of explosions at the mine nearly a year ago will next week hear evidence from Masaoki Nishioka.

Radio New Zealand reported this morning that it had seen Nishioka's written evidence.

He had 40 years mining experience but said he left Pike River after only three months because he became too frightened to go underground.

He would detail serious design faults with the water system, the coal faces being mined and the system for draining away explosive methane gas, RNZ reported.

Nishioka left a month before the mine began exploding.

[Mr Tommy]

The inquiry continues next week and this preview will give the die-hard Pikers less pause for thought :

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5924643/Mining-expert-frightened-by-Pike-River-mine

A Japanese mining expert with 40 years experience quit the Pike River mine after only three months because he feared it was going to explode.

The royal commission into the deaths of 29 men in a series of explosions at the mine nearly a year ago will next week hear evidence from Masaoki Nishioka.

Radio New Zealand reported this morning that it had seen Nishioka's written evidence.

He had 40 years mining experience but said he left Pike River after only three months because he became too frightened to go underground.

He would detail serious design faults with the water system, the coal faces being mined and the system for draining away explosive methane gas, RNZ reported.

Nishioka left a month before the mine began exploding.


Well if this guy really had 40 years experience, and was "too frightened" then he could have done something about it, but didnt. There were obviously hundreds of other "experienced" people working in the mine who thought it was reasonably safe to work in.

Its a bit like the buildings in Wellington CBD, many are not up to current earthquake standards, therefore "unsafe" to some extent. They have even put warning stickers on some. But we all have to go to work. We know theres a risk but we still go in.

[Balance]

Well if this guy really had 40 years experience, and was "too frightened" then he could have done something about it, but didnt. There were obviously hundreds of other "experienced" people working in the mine who thought it was reasonably safe to work in.

Its a bit like the buildings in Wellington CBD, many are not up to current earthquake standards, therefore "unsafe" to some extent. They have even put warning stickers on some. But we all have to go to work. We know theres a risk but we still go in.


Agree with you.

Or was it a case of him telling management, finding them unresponsive and so he decided best he moved on?

Remember the evidence given to date of management ignoring submissions on safety :

1. http://www.miningaustralia.com.au/ne...te--geologists

"Newman recommended investigation and research into these anomalies, but the miner failed to follow up her suggestions."

2. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10750114

"A year before the blast, four people were to test the ascent. The first two were so exhausted that no one else even wanted to try. Neither made it as far as the surface.

Mr Rockhouse said he tried to convince Mr Whittall to buy a refuge station.

With no official sign-off on the second escape exit, other safety measures were delayed, including smokelines to navigate to safety in a smoke-filled tunnel.

Mr Rockhouse said that in late 2009, he asked Mr Whittall if he could train the management team on the emergency system. Mr Whittall refused and said he was comfortable with the company's ability to respond."

And so on and so forth .....

[minimoke]

Its a bit like the buildings in Wellington CBD, many are not up to current earthquake standards, therefore "unsafe" to some extent. They have even put warning stickers on some. But we all have to go to work. We know theres a risk but we still go in.
I've been pondering my future over the past 12 months and one thing is for sure. there is no way I would move to wellington and there is no way you will find me working in one of those stickered buildings. I'd go as far as saying anyone working in one of those buildings is mad. The lure of a job and pay is just not enough to cover the risk when the inevitable Wellington quake hits. Sure, we may all have to go to work - but with some things they are just not worthwhile.

[Mr Tommy]

I've been pondering my future over the past 12 months and one thing is for sure. there is no way I would move to wellington and there is no way you will find me working in one of those stickered buildings. I'd go as far as saying anyone working in one of those buildings is mad. The lure of a job and pay is just not enough to cover the risk when the inevitable Wellington quake hits. Sure, we may all have to go to work - but with some things they are just not worthwhile.

I think the stickers on the old Wgtn buildings have only been put up recently since ChCh quake. Hopefully things will get safer as a result.
The last major quake in Wgtn was over 150 years ago, which is a long time to be worried about when the next big one will come.

[minimoke]

The last major quake in Wgtn was over 150 years ago, which is a long time to be worried about when the next big one will come.
Its not about worry - its about risk. Wellingtons last decent shake was 156 years ago and the average return period is 150 years. Risk is about looking at the likelihood and the consequence. Likelihood is inevitable, consequence is devastating - that's why I won't live in Wellington. People in Wellington don't need to worry - they just need to plan. If I was a Wellingtonian part of my plans would be not to work in a stickered building. As an ex-Wellingtonian part of my plan is to spend as little time there as possible with visits only being a necessity rather than an option.

Conversely Christchurh has a 4% chance of a 6.5 - 6.9 mag earthquake in the next 12 months. Likelihood is high (but consequence is relatively low (there is nothing much left to fall down!).

Same with Pike River. There is a likelihood it will explode again (its a gassy mine), there may not be as much coal as expected (there weren't too many exploratory bores drilled) and there could be a loss of life (still only one point of egress. No pointy worrying - just plan. Investors need to build the risk into their return.

[minimoke]

Using averages with earthquakes is a little dangerous ...
You are of course correct. It would be a bit like saying PRC has had an average of one explosion per productive year on average. The average can be used as one, of many markers upon which you can start to make a decision on an issue.

[winner69]

Hope the Pike snails didn't meet the same fate as the Solid Energy snails did in the hands of DOC... hope they died peacefully

[Balance]

3 parties charged.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10765109

Some Pikers need to look at themselves very carefully and consider how they attempted to shut down those who questioned the competency and professionalism of the directors and management of NXZO and PRC.

[Xerof]

Youre losing your touch Balance - it took you 20 minutes to post a story we can access ourselves and play the broken record once again. When can we expect something original?

[Balance]

Youre losing your touch Balance - it took you 20 minutes to post a story we can access ourselves and play the broken record once again. When can we expect something original?

:)

NO need for originality when you are dealing with PIkers.

They like to read only what they want to read and hear what they want to hear.

So it's kinda nice to put it in front of them.

[percy]

Youre losing your touch Balance - it took you 20 minutes to post a story we can access ourselves and play the broken record once again. When can we expect something original?

Original,? No He only does in hindsight.Also lacks foresight.!!!!!
As another poster posted,"so you have nothing further to add Balance." So true.!!! lol.

[Balance]

[QUOTE=JoeBlogs;322615]Actually there were over 200,000 shares on offer at 120 that got taken out shortly after LN's post
QUOTE]

Thanks. I know what I was looking at. Why the f#$k would I just make stuff up?

I've been a hard critic of some aspects of what has been happening at PRC but I like what the new CEO has brought to the role so far. People need to be judged on their actions and he's off to a hell of a start. Leadership starts at the top and a true leader can galvanise the people below him. There seems to be an energised feeling around the whole project now, and because he is steeped in coal mining I feel he is absolutely the right person to be at the helm. Coals in his blood, and he knows what he is doing.
The system works - that is the biggie for me. That means that almost every hurdle has now been cleared. Metaphorically speaking, this project has broken through it's graben: the shackles are off - the coal put up plenty of obstacles, it wasn't going to come out without a fight, but now it is defenceless and totally at our mercy.

Percy's idea of foresight from one poster - Oct 2010.

[Balance]

Why should the sp be higher, Mouse?

Buggers have not been able to get coal in sustainable quantity out and where's the proof that PRC ever will?

Management are very quick to broadcast any little bit of positive news (even remotely positive) but will not keep shareholders (excl the big ones) and the market informed and up to date.

Meanwhile, the legions of shareholders and Pikers here eagerly wait for the next 20,000t shipload! Whatever happened to the 1m tonne per year?

See how cleverly PRC has manipulated Pikers into accepting sub-standard management and unacceptable performance?

Posting from Aug 2010 - Percy's idea of hindsight.

:)

:)

Me rests my case of how screwed-up poor Percy is.

[Balance]

Be careful there Mouse! That shipment must have been the most costly per tonne ever produced in NZ. There is still scepticism amongst some of the mining fraternity that the prospectus production and costs will ever be achieved. Timeliness has already been an abject failure. Once production ramps up and they start winning more coal than rock logistical problems with the rail and port may become apparent. PRC are apparently going to have to play 2nd fiddle to Solid Energy who have preferential deals with rail & port.
Feel free to ignore this West Coast pub talk but remember the earlier stuff I posted was spookily accurate.
Disclosure: ex holder who got out at a good profit when he became concerned at the big dissconnect between what PRC workers, contractors & other miners were telling him and public statements or lack thereof from management.
As a Coaster I wish PRC well but will not be buying back in untill they prove themselves & disclosure improves.


Posting from Feb 21010 - yet another hindsight posting.

I GET it!

Any posting which is negative on PRC = hindsight (according to Percy).

Any posting which is positive on PRC = foresight (according to Percy).

No wonder PRC and NZOG thought they could do no wrong!

[percy]

At least Mouse posted new original,interesting views in good faith.He rang people and asked questions.A contributor.
Something you have never done Balance.

[Lizard]

Me rests my case of how screwed-up poor Percy is.

Balance,

I find your post objectionable.

Percy is a valuable and respected member of this forum. It's quite likely you too would be valued and respected if you weren't so enthusiastic in your ridicule of every other member.

Take a chill pill.

[percy]

Balance,

I find your post objectionable.

Percy is a valuable and respected member of this forum. It's quite likely you too would be valued and respected if you weren't so enthusiastic in your ridicule of every other member.

Take a chill pill.

I do n't think one would be enough.The whole bottle may be required. !!!!!!! lol

[Balance]

Balance,

I find your post objectionable.

Percy is a valuable and respected member of this forum. It's quite likely you too would be valued and respected if you weren't so enthusiastic in your ridicule of every other member.

Take a chill pill.

Thanks, that was cool. :) hehe

What is truly objectionable is the monumental loss of lives and money - something some Pikers want to hide away from at any opportunity.

Funny how anything (even of little substance) was posted on this thread by them, but of matters of great significance (like 3 parties being charged for safety breaches which caused deaths), they are nowhere to be seen.

[Balance]

Youre losing your touch Balance - it took you 20 minutes to post a story we can access ourselves and play the broken record once again. When can we expect something original?

So why did you not post this story of such significance?

[Awamoa]

Balance,

I find your post objectionable.

Percy is a valuable and respected member of this forum. It's quite likely you too would be valued and respected if you weren't so enthusiastic in your ridicule of every other member.

Take a chill pill.
Its getting pretty sad when one poster can hijack and ruin what was once an informative chatsite.
Just take a look at his contributions over the last 24 hours and assess the value.
From my observations there are many previous contributors who seem to have disappeared and this site is the poorer for it.
However its not hard to see why.

[Balance]

Awamoa, the laying of charges is a very significant event.

There are a number of serious implications for the mine - not least of which is that it is becoming increasingly obvious that the mine is NOT the problem, but the gross (mis)management of it was.

So one would expect an experienced mining company to bid more aggressively for the $5b to $10b of coking coal in the mine, knowing full well that with proper management and mining techniques, the coal can be safely taken out.

This could mean increased value for NZOG and could lead to a capital return for PRC shareholders.

What did yours truly here got for posting the story? The usual string of abuse aimed at anyone who dare to challenge some of the Pikers.

So continue with your pathetic ways, Percy, Xerof, Lizard etc. You fool no-one but yourselves.

Why did none of you post the story? Afraid of the truth? Cannot work out the implications?

Will not change one iota my stance on PRC mismanagement, and the need to highlight how many on this site supported the management, and were abusive of those who dared challenge the management. The truth will set the spirits of the 29 dead miners free.

:)

[percy]

Awamoa,
Exactly.
I have learnt a lot from other posters,and tried my best to help others.I think all of us try to do the same.This is what I see sharetrader
being all about.I do not expect to agree with others all the time,and do not expect others to agree with me all the time.
However, what I do not like is posters who have made a real effort to add to the discussions, being rediculed by Balance who makes no effort.

[Lizard]

Balance,

Unfortunately, it is your own behaviour on this thread that is making it impossible for posters to focus on the real stories here. The continual personal attacks become a pretty big diversion.

Whether or not you missed out on the empathy gene at birth or had it suppressed later in life, I certainly feel sorry for you - despite the fact it will mean nothing to you.

Personally, I think you have some useful insights to offer to this forum and will be sorry to see you eventually banned (again?) - and, before you assert otherwise, it won't be for your negative postings towards PRC or any other stock or management, but simply your negative attitude to other posters which is destructive to this forum as a whole.

[Obelix]

Nice to see that the "country cop" who had no clue how to handle the situation has been promoted hahaha. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10761181

A (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10761181)ny word yet as to when Price waterhoue coopers will inform the media and maybe us the shareholders if we are deemed worthy enough as to when this sale will actually take place?

This time next year?

Also a note to Balance, i have no issue with you posting articles about management being ****, but whats the deal with telling people to look at themselves?

Did you get shut down at a shareholder meeting at some stage and now hold a grudge because of public humiliation or something?


I never trusted these bozzo managers to start with. All the CEO's in charge of small companies like this are generally fat old men who made their own qualifications at home with some microsoft design program haha.

What pisses me off and i should have known better, is the idiots that actually worked at the mine and ****ed around with the equipment. Typical cowboy yahoo workers. Hillbillies.

As a shareholder I should be allowed to send all these idiots a bill for blowing up my mine. Not that I would ever get any money from them as they are all broke losers and most have probably gone to oz for better pay.

Only difference is there they wont be able to tamper with equipment because the management are not as stupid and lazy as the ones that we had in charge of this pee wee operation.

Hope they all get done by the labour department so it sends a messages to other company directors in the future.

[tony64peter]

BALANCE Wish I had listened to you. Dropped $140k on this one. Like your Posts. Tony

[Monkey Poms]

[QUOTE;322650]

Percy's idea of foresight from one poster - Oct 2010.

Balance If we posters to this forum had the foresight and power to persuade
the DOC to see sense and allow some leeway in allowing Pike to implement ways
to provide miners with fresh air to breathe and assist in extracting methane,
Percy's Post would be right on the mark.

Monkey Poms.

[Xerof]

Wait for it.......

For those who can't read the breaking news for themselves, Balance will post the link in a few moments, and play his broken record once over for good measure

[percy]

Wait for it.......

For those who can't read the breaking news for themselves, Balance will post the link in a few moments, and play his broken record once over for good measure

I don't think so.I see he has been banned again.! Don't know how long for.

[Xerof]

Oh dear, hadn't noticed.

[Monkey Poms]

Oh dear, hadn't noticed.

Well, I for one am sorry to see him banned.Who's going to entertain us now?
I have a bet on with some of the lads in the office that one day Balance will
come up with something positive ( you know me - always the optimist ).

Monkey Poms

[digger]

I am completely at loss to understand these charges against PW and two companies at this time with the Royal Commission'S third stage about the start on Monday.To me it leads to several outcomes which are in fact opposite each other.
If PW now gets called up will he now be unable to comment with court charges against him pending?If he does not front will he be in contempt of court,if he does front will he be in contempt.
Is the charges by the Labor Dept in contempt of the royal Commission as the Labor Dept must now be claiming they know it all by bring charges before the RC has established the facts.
As weird as it may seem are the charges brought now a way to discredit the charges as they are in advance of the RC.

I for one an completely lost as to what this timing is all about.

[brucey09]

Snr. Digger
I am to agree with you, but in long time snrs. Ward and Whital should be with blame.

[gNZ]

Digger, the department of labour has a certain amount of time to react to an event I think it is usually 6 months but they got an extension in this case and had one year (19 nov) to get things rolling.

see this cambel live (http://www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/national/58705.html) link at the 1:20 mark

[digger]

Digger, the department of labour has a certain amount of time to react to an event I think it is usually 6 months but they got an extension in this case and had one year (19 nov) to get things rolling.

see this cambel live (http://www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/national/58705.html) link at the 1:20 mark

Thanks gNZ for that link. I had not read that before. Like the bit where it says PW can now stay silent as he has charges to answer.
Looks like the govt should have extented the right of the labour Dept until after the RC. Seems an over lay of authority here unnecessarly.

[LIO]

Some more thoughtful and informed comment from Dave Feikert :

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2502345/mine-safety-expert-says-govt-has-greatest-culpability-for-pike.asx

It now seems obvious that those of us who have lost money in PRC are victims of government deregulation as surely as those who lost savings in finance company collapses, or homes in the leaky building crisis.......plus of course those who paid the ultimate price down the mine. ( I bet many shareholders would never have dreamed of putting money into a finance company ! )

I'm a little afraid that those currently charged (even if proved guilty of inadequacies that contributed to the tragedy) will be the scapegoats, while the deregulating polticians walk free again.

It may well be that some were careless, with that "It can't happen to me" attitude that we see in many other situations. But I can't see that anyone was intentionally reckless. The company didn't want to lose it's mine. And Peter Whittall certainly didn't want to lose the mine, his job, or his workers. His face on our screens has revealed genuine grief and and anguish.

[jumbo]

obelix. good words prc needed to get 1-2 ship loads away so options could be exercised and money in they had a very short time frame to achieve this in the mean time management and workers both sacrificed saftey and that created the end result. ive worked in a mine on the same range and I dont think any of my mates would off gone underground under those conditions meaning underground fan and no safe exit in a mine that rose into the hill which spelt danger in the event of an explosion trapping gas that cant get away. its strange after the event that everyone who new everything geoligists miners and others all new it was unsafe and could blow up. but sat on the sidelines and did nothing perhaps they should be prosecuted

[Mr Tommy]

Just been reading the mine inspectors evidence at PIke enquiry
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/mining/news/article.cfm?c_id=64&objectid=10766702

Royal Commission lawyer James Wilding revealed methane levels in the top of the fan shaft had spiked several times, with a cluster in October 2010, a month before the explosion. This meant methane levels would have been even higher inside the mine itself.
. . .
Just before his last visit, on November 2, the mine had recorded lots of methane around the underground machinery.
Mr Poynter did not know a cigarette lighter had been found in a vehicle, cigarette butts in the mine, and aluminium drink-can tabs. However, it kept happening so random searches were introduced.

Have we just been told why the mine blew up ???

[Casa del Energia]

Just been reading the mine inspectors evidence at PIke enquiry
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/mining/news/article.cfm?c_id=64&objectid=10766702

Royal Commission lawyer James .................... introduced.

Have we just been told why the mine blew up ???


Pretty strong indication there. It's horrifying what it trickeling out through the enquiry. Cigarette lighter, butts in the mine - - apart from lighting up under a fueled up Saturn BV launcher - there can't be a sillier place on earth to do that .... what's next? BBQ equipment left behind as well?

[fabs]

All that has some real spooky implications, drink can tabs/ what sort of drinks where consumed down there? let alone the other items.
If proven, one should hope the Victims relations, which have quite justifiably insisted on a thorough investigation will pursue this as vigorously.
Hard to believe that even one of the Miners would act in such a reckless and irresponsible manner, jeopardizing his workmates lives.
One of the conditions, if this mine is ever to see operation again should surely be an in-house Mining-Inspector if that is what goes on.
Sale of mine seems to increasingly been to early, no doubt to get a good price, any potential bidder will face huge compliance cost and be accountable for every step.
Certainly as a NZO S/H will hope the co. will stay well out of it, investing in a costly venture with not a clue of the W/C Mining industry.

[digger]

All that has some real spooky implications, drink can tabs/ what sort of drinks where consumed down there? let alone the other items.
If proven, one should hope the Victims relations, which have quite justifiably insisted on a thorough investigation will pursue this as vigorously.
Hard to believe that even one of the Miners would act in such a reckless and irresponsible manner, jeopardizing his workmates lives..

Fabs, Right from 2 seconds after i heard the mine blew up may first reaction was that someone snuck off for a smoke and that was well before i heard that butts and lighters were often found in the mine. But if you say as you have that this was reckless and irresponsible it shows some lack of understanding of miners and heavy smokers.
Firstly regular smokers often smoke because their hands and body actions do that from habit and if heavy enought from that old craving,together with some postural echoing of mates. I doubt that the recklessness of the action had very come into the equation.Sadly i have to say that in my family of 7 they all smoked but me and i do know the ongoing problem they had in controling even when they very much wanted to.
It was for this reason in the back of my mind that i wanted breather holes drilled from the top of the mine every 30 or 50 metres so that when the other fresh air fans stop then at least something would continue to function .Methene is lighter that air and that is a fact 24/7

Sadly we as a society do not like pointing the cross bones at the dead so this most likely cause of the explosion will more than likely get pushed aside more than it should.Remember it only takes one miner to decide to smoke or to go about the hand movements of smoking without any thought to create in the mine a bomb source greater than any likely to come from a fan or engine.
Good luck to the RC and i do hope they investagate all sources of the explosion regardless of the unpleasentness of the tragedy.

[whirly]

RIP Pike 29

[Monkey Poms]

47cm a day "pathetic"
By Tui Bromley
On the eve of the first anniversary of the November 19 explosion that claimed the lives of 29 men deep inside the Pike River Mine, Grey District Mayor Tony Kokshoorn has slammed as “pathetic” the snail-like progress on the re-entry to recover the bodies.
All attempts to reclaim the 2.4km tunnel have stalled, just 170m from the portal — an average progress of merely 47cm a day over the course of the entire year.
At that rate it will take far longer to reclaim the tunnel than it did to bore it.
“It’s unfair on the families of victims, and totally unacceptable that the so-called re-entry is stagnating at 170m a full year after the disaster ... pathetic,” Mr Kokshoorn said.
The Mayor’s comments come as a sombre mood descends on Greymouth and a community preparing to mark the first anniversary of the disaster with a number of memorials, including the main event which is expected to attract about 3000 people to Rugby Park.
It is going to be a long and taxing day for the grieving families, who will start the day with a private visit to the mine site to pay their respects at 9am. Buses will take the families to the mine and also to a second memorial, at the mine turnoff on Atarau Road.
From there the convoy will head back into town for the dedication of the Memorial Rose Garden, at the junction of Tainui and High streets, followed by the public memorial service at Rugby Park, and then on to Blackball for the final event in a long day, a service at the Miners’ Memorial Wheel at 5.30pm.
Meanwhile, Mr Kokshoorn has called on the Pike River Coal receivers, the Government, and the as-yet-unknown new owners to collectively fund a body recovery plan.
“Too much time has passed with too little action. We have to get cracking on this,” he said.
“I have already sent an e-mail to Malcolm Hollis from the receivers stating that the Grey District Council wants to facilitate a meeting between the three parties to get this plan in action.”
The Mayor has asked Mr Hollis to convey the message to the potential purchasers and he also intends to lobby Prime Minister John Key when he is here tomorrow for the memorial service at Rugby Park.
Mr Kokshoorn has asked each party to stump up $4 million, and the Government to guarantee a shortfall if the recovery cost more than
$12 million.
“The receivers, as representatives of Pike River shareholders, have a moral obligation to the families, especially as they have had an $80m insurance payout and will soon get a good price for the asset.
“The Government should come to the party on the basis that it controls all the mining licences, which generate an enormous amount of money in taxes, royalties and dividends.
“Prime Minister John Key has already stated that the Government would come to the party when there is a ‘credible’ recovery plan.”
Mr Kokshoorn said the new mine owner could prove that it was a good corporate citizen and get off on the right foot with West Coasters and the miners’ union if it made the body recovery a priority of the purchase.
“They (the new owners) will have the rights to about $6 billion worth of coal so I will be asking them to show some compassion.
“It’s gone on too long. We need a clear business plan, a budget and timeline.
“We have had enough words, it’s time for action.”


Tony Kokshoorn is right on this - the time it has taken to make an attempt at recovery of the bodies is far too long. There should have been a plan in place by now. Is there some political reason, of which we are not aware, which is putting constraints on any recovery operation?

To my mind, it would be less dangerous to those involved in the recovery efforts to enter the mine workings through the top, and be done with it.

Monkey Poms

[Mr Tommy]

Heres the last update I can find on the re-entry, from 29 Sept. So the remote seal work should be about to start soon if this is still going to plan.


Pike River Coal says it is making significant progress on it plans to re-enter the mine where the bodies of 29 men remain.
The latest efforts have centred on installing a vent at the mine entry to get fresh air into the entry tunnel up to the second entry point 25 metres inside.
Briefing reporters at the mine, statutory manager Steve Ellis said this ventilation unit was crucial to the plan to gradually re-ventilate the entry tunnel.
He said he hoped to start work on creating a remote seal just before the rockfall by mid-November and to have completed re-entry to the tunnel by Christmas.

[Arbitrage]

Surely if they want to keep the public on side they should have weekly updates. How much time and effort does it take to write 6 lines on a website giving a weekly progress report?

[GTM 3442]

[QUOTE=Arbitrage;361476 How much time and effort does it take to write 6 lines on a website giving a weekly progress report?[/QUOTE]


No time at all, if there's no progress to report

[Mr Tommy]

Surely if they want to keep the public on side they should have weekly updates. How much time and effort does it take to write 6 lines on a website giving a weekly progress report?

Wow, first mention of this in weeks, from todays Pike story:

Statutory mine manager Steve Ellis originally hoped the tunnel would be reclaimed by Christmas, although recently said he believed it would more likely take until early January, weather-permitting.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/6019936/Pike-families-want-body-recovery-advice

[Mr Tommy]

A snippet from herald today about the sale:

The new owner of the Pike River mine will be expected to make "best endeavours" to recover the remains of 29 dead workers - but for grieving families that is not enough.
The final bids are in for the West Coast coal mine, in which the workers died in explosions just over a year ago, and the mine's receivers hope to start the sale process before Christmas.
"But realistically, any settlement of any contract will not be until the first part of next year," said receiver John Fisk, of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

[the machine]

with nationals back then one would hope that will improve the conditions under what the mine can do if it is to reopen - that is part open caste and approval to have a lot of ventilation holes for the non open caste

M

[Paint it Black]

with nationals back then one would hope that will improve the conditions under what the mine can do if it is to reopen - that is part open caste and approval to have a lot of ventilation holes for the non open caste

M

I really hope so - together with the partial asset sales the country cannot afford to let this massive resource simply sit idle in the ground or get sold off to a foreign company for a pittance and some royalties.

[Monkey Poms]

with nationals back then one would hope that will improve the conditions under what the mine can do if it is to reopen - that is part open caste and approval to have a lot of ventilation holes for the non open caste

M

M - going forward, who would dare to manage or work in the mine without the approval from DoC to allow ventilation holes to be drilled wherever and whenever necessary? Plus at least two egress tunnels.

Monkey Poms

[Ian]

slowly moving towards a sale

Grey District Mayor Tony Kokshorn says having recently talked with Pike receivers, they are confident a sale of the mine is imminent.

He says it's very likely a heads of agreement will be signed before Christmas.

However Mr Kokshorn says the receivers are keeping very tight-lipped over potential buyers although it has always been rumoured Chinese parties and Solid Energy are very keen.

[Ian]

So what will be the final cents per share we finaly get ?

[bung5]

So what will be the final cents per share we finaly get ?

has the lollie jar guess began? my punt at 8c

[Monkey Poms]

has the lollie jar guess began? my punt at 8c

8c payout after paying off the creditors, equates to a bid of about 83 million,
Hope you are a mile out Bung 5.

MP

[bung5]

8c payout after paying off the creditors, equates to a bid of about 83 million,
Hope you are a mile out Bung 5.

MP

Yes I think between 80- 120 million is all really can expect. What is your guess?

[Ian]

I would have thought at least $150- 200mil.

[Monkey Poms]

Yes I think between 80- 120 million is all really can expect. What is your guess?

Bung 5, about six months ago I passed the details of the Pike sale to an investment fund
which has a fund value of a couple of billion dollars. My contact handed the file to his analyst,
who gave his thoughts on his observation. He said,"we will pass on this one. Out of 60 million tonne of coal
Pike intend to mine 18 million tonne and leave 42 million tonne in the ground with a value in excess
of us$10 billion dollars."

Bung 5, the top end of your guess $120 million, that equates to the value of coal should an area
of Pike be opencast 204 metre x 204 metre with a nine metre coal seam.

My guess - in excess of 400 million. With a rider that if the bid isn't high enough T. Radford will conjure up some sort of a deal with a third party, whereby present shareholders will retain some value in their Pike shares. ( although diluted by what percentage )?

M P

[bung5]

I would like to think Radford would as well. But that would mean he would have to be trying increase value for NZOG , something which he hasn't done for the last 2 years or more. whats he done in the last 2 years .. nothing worth mentioning. Just collecting he very handsome director fees.

That coal in the ground is worth that much, but the cost of getting it out is very high.. plus tax plus royalties... and a delayed rate of return. not to mention the risk as well.

[Monkey Poms]

I would like to think Radford would as well. But that would mean he would have to be trying increase value for NZOG , something which he hasn't done for the last 2 years or more. whats he done in the last 2 years .. nothing worth mentioning. Just collecting he very handsome director fees.

That coal in the ground is worth that much, but the cost of getting it out is very high.. plus tax plus royalties... and a delayed rate of return. not to mention the risk as well.

Bung 5, let's hope T Radford makes up for the last two years and plays a good hand on this one.

There is a much easier way to get the coal out, less risk to miners lives, more cost efficient
than the method used by Pike. Will it happen ? Probably 100 years after the new owners of the
mine have taken out 18 million tonne of coal and restored the land,a third generation of a mining
company such as Bathurst will come along and say, can you believe it? those guys in
2012 left 42 million tons of coal in the ground!

M P.

[digger]

OK just for the fun i will start a competion for best final guess on what PIKE shares will end up selling for.True this could get positive and complicated.Like if before a sale were knowlingly to include opencast that would send up the price.Also but to a lesser extent the sale value would rise if DOC were excluded and the new mine owners could run it as a business instead of a greeny keep happy fiasco that PIKE-1 was.To highlight just how complicated this could get i must confess that i do not know when a sale is likely to occure. Lets say by end 2011.Also note i assume the 100 million insurance will be available for the new owner. My guess is 35 cents for existing shares.

Digger 35
machine 49
777--42
monkey poms--143
jackson--100
mr tommy-- 75
dsuf--250
corporate 25
iceman--95
casa del energia--115
stanace 58
loin 175

[the machine]

Digger 35
machine 49
777--42
monkey poms--143
jackson--100
mr tommy-- 75
dsuf--250
corporate 25
iceman--95
casa del energia--115
stanace 58
loin 175



hey digger - where did my 49c come from?
must have been ages ago

can you please change it to 89c

i was going to enquire about a prize but then 29 people have died so no to a prize

m

[Corporate]

hey digger - where did my 49c come from?
must have been ages ago

can you please change it to 89c

i was going to enquire about a prize but then 29 people have died so no to a prize

m

89c!!

Wow I'd be supprised if I ended up with 20c

[brucey09]

Snr. Digger
5c
And Snr. ward to testify? No?

[digger]

hey digger - where did my 49c come from?
must have been ages ago

can you please change it to 89c

i was going to enquire about a prize but then 29 people have died so no to a prize

m

The Machine this is on page 565. You were in fact the first to respond.
We should not get into changing it now or adding on new members as it was a just for fun thing and seen from the end of April .
Naturally things have changed since then. Firstly i thought the mine would have been sold by now but am glad it has not as it allows important things to get done. Like the election out of the way and progress on removing bodies. Note also we now have the 80 million insurance settlement and no end of thouhts on the royal commission.
So this fun competition was limited to as we saw it at the time---end of April

[Xerof]

The situation of Gordon Ward not being prepared to assist speaks volumes.........what a gutless wonder he is - the rat fleeing the ship before it sunk......lets see what Dow has to say in his defense

I remember very clearly at one early shareholder meeting, his eyes glazing over when asked anything technical, and passing the buck to Whittall

[OutToLunch]

Very poor form indeed... I hope we see some pressure applied to him to show some spine and front up to some overdue scrutiny. Leaving Whittall to carry the can for a situation that appears at least partly inherited from Whittall's predecessors is rather convenient isn't it. A morally-inclined person would at least be willing to help answer some questions for the families' sakes.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10771000

[peat]

And Snr. ward to testify? No?

That is such a bad look !


I have written mine off so I will stick with that and say 0c

[the machine]

ok, leave ast 49c

M

[iceman]

Very poor form indeed... I hope we see some pressure applied to him to show some spine and front up to some overdue scrutiny. Leaving Whittall to carry the can for a situation that appears at least partly inherited from Whittall's predecessors is rather convenient isn't it. A morally-inclined person would at least be willing to help answer some questions for the families' sakes.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10771000

Totally agree with you OutToLunch. This is a disgraceful act from a gutless person with no morals or integrity. I am disgusted.

[Sideshow Bob]

I'm with you guys on Mr Ward. Very poor form - actually I said something much worse while watching TV tonight. While not legally obliged to appear, as OutToLunch said, someone morally inclined would appear.

Maybe it is an indicator of the reason of some of the non-mining failures of Pike River Coal??

[Monkey Poms]

I'm with you guys on Mr Ward. Very poor form - actually I said something much worse while watching TV tonight. While not legally obliged to appear, as OutToLunch said, someone morally inclined would appear.

Maybe it is an indicator of the reason of some of the non-mining failures of Pike River Coal??

You are right on this one, Ward had the power and the shout,had a meeting at the mine in which
he told everyone what they wanted to hear when awkward questions were asked of him.
The same questions were put to Whittal,who then gave us straight, truthful answers. Eventually Ward
had had enough and called the meeting to a close.

I know many of you may think there could possibly be some dark secret in the reason Ward left the
Company in the way he did. I think the truth is that he was useless and knew it. The sad thing is that
it took the NZOG directors so long to discover this fact.

MP

[OutToLunch]

Totally agree with you OutToLunch. This is a disgraceful act from a gutless person with no morals or integrity. I am disgusted.

I was being, let's say, 'very restrained' in my comments. Maybe an investigative journalist needs to do some 'investigation' a la Hotchin style. Follow him around and apply some heat. The journo gets to put their name against a story of high public interest, and in return maybe the enquiry will get some of the answers they so badly need from Ward. I don't have any such media contacts, but maybe some of you others do and you might like to bend their ear. Apply enough public pressure and maybe Ward might change his mind and support the enquiry; after all, he will have plenty of 'valuable' info being in the position that he was in the company. For christ's sake, there are 29 people dead and all Ward appears to be interested in is covering his own arse, or at least keeping his arse at a safe distance from the heat. Absolutely appalling. :t_down:

[777]

Surely the court can subpoena him.

[iceman]

Surely the court can subpoena him.

No unfortunately the Commission can not force people living overseas to appear, only residents of NZ !!!

[Hoop]

Surely the court can subpoena him.

Quote from John Key (TVNZ 28th Nov 2010) (http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/key-seeks-royal-commission-inquiry-into-mine-disaster-3921585) "......The Royal Commission will have the power to subpoena witnesses and gather information....."

EDIT:.. Oooops..Iceman...just saw your post after I posted mine

EDIT..Found the Commission of Enquiry transcripts (http://pikeriver.royalcommission.govt.nz/Commission-Hearings) ...Geez... nearly up to 4000 pages

[OutToLunch]

The law's an ass. This is why I think we need an interested journo with a bit of fire in his or her belly to do some hard questioning of their own in the interests of the enquiry, the families and the wider public. Pressure the bugger via public scrutiny (ie the media) until he has no option left but to front up and give the enquiry the answers they need.

No wonder he's no longer in NZ.

[777]

Maybe when/if the commission decides there is criminal liability then a full court case will follow. He then should be "obliged" to attend.

[J R Ewing]

I know many of you may think there could possibly be some dark secret in the reason Ward left the
Company in the way he did. I think the truth is that he was useless and knew it. The sad thing is that
it took the NZOG directors so long to discover this fact.

MP

Maybe the NZO board agreed with your assessment, that could be why Gordon was moved from NZO to PRC in the first place :)

[Baddarcy]

What has me thinking about the pending sale, is the fact that Solid Energy has partnered up with the Chinese.

Have a read of the latest quarterly report, why would a company that made $87m profit and paid a $50m dividend and have relatively low debt ($1.1b assets and $200m debt) need a partner? ...... unless they thought they couldn't afford it and needed more money.

http://www.comu.govt.nz/resources/pdfs/disclosures/soedisc-senz-26aug11.pdf

Another thing is i have been watching NZO's share price, it hasn't really moved recently so either the receiver is keeping the bid prices from the market, (which is surprising to me) or it's not going to be good for NZO...

2 contradictory statements...... which is going to be true i wonder :-)

[Jackson]

What has me thinking about the pending sale, is the fact that Solid Energy has partnered up with the Chinese.

2 contradictory statements...... which is going to be true i wonder :-)


Bad Darcy, good to see you back commenting. Drop into the office for a coffee will you and stop being such a stranger.

To answer your question, I obviously hope its the first one and SE needed big Capital ($400 - $500 mill) to support their bid. Given their relationship with the Key government it wouldnt surprise me if a wink and a nod was given to them prior to the election that they would be successful but the Gov needed a big injection of Foreign Capital (in essence a partial sale of a NZ asset) to make it palatable to all parties. By bringing the Chinese along SE can offer fair market value (whatever that is) or more to secure the deal. The Chinese are looking 10 - 20 years ahead for their energy requirements so wont be as fazed by the timeframes and cost to get the coal out as say a bidder who needed cash flow and ROI within 2 - 5 years.

Shareholders get "some" of their money back, economy gets a boost, NZO gets a lifeline, no one points the finger at Don's Dirty tricks to "steal a deal" and rip off local shareholders, and the company who is best placed to mine this on behalf of all NZ (and now some Chinese) gets the deal... I bet a little "Open Cast" discussion was included... (I still put the sale price in the 100's of Millions, not 40 - 60 Mill as some have quoted but I have 2 mortgages tied up in there so may be dreaming :-))

As for NZO shares not moving, I think there is too much scrutiny with this transaction for anyone to risk going to jail for insider trading. If the price jumped prior to announcement, those buyers would all get a close look!

[notie]

Maybe the NZO board agreed with your assessment, that could be why Gordon was moved from NZO to PRC in the first place :)

Gordon has always been Tony Radford's man. Kind of like Smithers and Mr Burns. This mine was always Tony Radford's baby and he should be the one fronting up to the enquiry.

Gordon was cut loose as he overpromised and underdelivered it became very hard for him to go to the market again and ask for more cash.

There was obviously some big issues early on at the IPO stage when 3 of the independent directors resigned and obviously they weren't happy at that stage.

This whole sorry saga is a sad reflection on Radford and his other baby NZOG

[OutToLunch]

10 September 2010

PIKE RIVER CHIEF EXECUTIVE

Pike River Coal advises that Gordon Ward, who has been CEO and Managing
Director of the company since May 2007, will leave Pike River with effect
from 1 October 2010.

Mr Ward has led Pike River from its initial conceptual design 14 years ago
through development to its second coal export shipment in September 2010, and
the imminent start-up of the hydro-mining operations.

The Board wishes to express its thanks to Mr Ward for his significant
contribution to the growth of the company over what has been an extended and
often difficult period of mine development.

An announcement regarding Mr Ward's successor will be made shortly.

ENDS

[Hoop]

.....Another thing is i have been watching NZO's share price, it hasn't really moved recently so either the receiver is keeping the bid prices from the market, (which is surprising to me) or it's not going to be good for NZO...

2 contradictory statements...... which is going to be true i wonder :-)

I've been watching NZO too Baddarcy...I take the view that any leakage of PRC info may show up with signature trading behaviour picked up by TA
.
The behaviour of NZO has been very stable since the last scattering of buy signals noticed by the squeezing up of the Bollinger Bands.
The purple Bollinger Bands is a good indicator to detect near future trend changes... In Group behaviour the survival instinct is triggered when sensing that calm before the storm feeling....Bollinger bands is a good indicator to show when this trading instinctive behaviour occurs.

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/NZO02122011.png

We must be reminded that NZO is in a bear market cycle....There is a little optimism that we may have witnessed a double bottom but sadly there has been no higher highs and higher lows to prove that claim yet.

[Monkey Poms]

Maybe the NZO board agreed with your assessment, that could be why Gordon was moved from NZO to PRC in the first place :)

Hadn't thought of that one JR - maybe they should have coughed up a redundancy package.

MP

[Monkey Poms]

What has me thinking about the pending sale, is the fact that Solid Energy has partnered up with the Chinese.

Have a read of the latest quarterly report, why would a company that made $87m profit and paid a $50m dividend and have relatively low debt ($1.1b assets and $200m debt) need a partner? ...... unless they thought they couldn't afford it and needed more money.

http://www.comu.govt.nz/resources/pdfs/disclosures/soedisc-senz-26aug11.pdf

Another thing is I have been watching NZO's share price, it hasn't really moved recently so either the receiver is keeping the bid prices from the market, (which is surprising to me) or it's not going to be good for NZO...

2 contradictory statements...... which is going to be true i wonder :-)

Comments Solid Energy.
A brief explanation of any of the
above figures necessary to
enable them to be understood.
Summary Highlights
• Profit of $87.2 million, 29% increase on 2010 ($67.8 million).
• Coal sales 4.1 million tonnes, up 6% (2010: 3.8 Mt); exports up 19%.
• International coal prices up to US$330/tonne following Queensland
floods. Average USD price received up 20% on 2010.

Baddarcy there could be a lot of upside for this company if Devious Don could sell the coal for the
right price instead of giving the coal away at a discounted price.

SE profit of NZ$ 87,184,000 divide by tons of coal sold 4,100,000 suggests a profit of NZ$ 21.26 per tonne
for each tonne of coal sold in a year when the international price of coal almost doubled. (not very good )
The difficult piece of the equasion is what is the breakdown of the coal sales between steam coal or the more valuable coking coal.
SE average coal sale price NZ$ 202 dollars = US$ 157 per tonne.
It is no wonder coal sales were up. International coal buyers must have thought there was a sale on.

Baddarcy, if SE sold coal at the international coal market price they would not need a partner to buy the mine.
They could fund a purchase of $500m and go it alone. At the moment they appear to need a Chinese partner.


M P

[Hoop]

Todays news
NZH 7/12/2011
Pike River inquiry secrecy bid rejected (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10771527)....Royal commissioners have rejected a legal bid to suppress key Department of Labour evidence at the inquiry into the Pike River disaster. Lawyers acting for Pike River Coal Ltd, its former chief executive Peter Whittall, other company executives and Valley Longwall International Pty Ltd applied to keep a DOL investigation titled "Pike River Mine Tragedy 19 November, 2010" secret.......

I think this is the 179 page DOL report (http://www.dol.govt.nz/News/Media/pikeriver/Pike-River-Mine-review/Pike-River-Mine-Report.pdf) they referred to

[Wiremu]

It's the DOL Investigation Report & Appendices which is the basis of the charges laid by DOL against the three parties.

[iceman]

I hope they find him !!

Pike River families' spokesman trying to track down ex-boss
6:58 AM Friday Dec 9, 2011 Email
The spokesman for the Pike River families is still trying to contact the company's former CEO who refuses to front up to the Royal Commission.

Gordon Ward has upset many at the inquiry by refusing to appear or even provide a written statement.

Families spokesman Bernie Monk says he's been trying to speak to him.

"I have made some phone calls to certain people that I know and they're working very hard," he says.

Earlier evidence told of Pike being Mr Ward's baby until he left in mysterious circumstance just over a month before the first explosion.


- Newstalk ZB

[bung5]

No Pike River sale this side of Christmas, receiver says

The receiver for Pike River Coal doesn’t expect to sign a sale agreement before Christmas as negotiations with international parties interested in the sealed coal mine continue

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/7923aef2/no-pike-river-sale-this-side-of-christmas-receiver-says.html


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6151910/No-Pike-River-sale-before-Christmas

"It will take longer to sell Pike River Coal, in receivership, than previously indicated because international buyers need overseas investment office approval before making a purchase."

They say need overseas investment office approval. which says two things. over 100milllion and overseas buyer