Burgerfuel

[kyanar]

Lost a massive amount today. Did I miss some big announcement?

[Crackity]

That is a large fall but it is on small volume.....

Maybe one of the other shareholders does not like Te Awamutu?

[silverblizzard888]

Lost a massive amount today. Did I miss some big announcement?

Was that a paper loss? Theres no announcement that did that, just Burgerfuel lacks liquidity that the jump between 3.20 buying and 3.50 selling can cause some panic and likely some profit taking by those who bought for less than $3


That is a large fall but it is on small volume.....

Maybe one of the other shareholders does not like Te Awamutu?

Haha thats the funniest one I've heard, coincidence or perhaps Te Awamutu didn't serve the right burger to a certain shareholder!

[Harvey Specter]

Lost a massive amount today. Did I miss some big announcement?Only if you compare to the day before. Otherwise it is even or up.

Te Awamutu is an interesting one. Population is about 10k which is small. It think it is owned by existing franchisees so they will have some economies of scale at the back end and I assume rent is cheaper too. Hard to save on labour as they would pay just above minimum wage but you obviously don't need as many people if it isn't as busy. If it works out, you could see more roll out into the small towns.

[kyanar]

It think it is owned by existing franchisees so they will have some economies of scale at the back end and I assume rent is cheaper too.

Yup, same franchisee as two of the existing NZ Burgerfuels, and three in Australia (probably three of the four in Queensland)

[bucko]

https://nzx.com/companies/BFW/announcements/265535

great stuff, No debt, cash of $7.7m, profits up 30% and about to enter the US market

[kyanar]

What's the market's problem with BFW lately? It's lost ~15% of its value in the last week alone.

[silverblizzard888]

What's the market's problem with BFW lately? It's lost ~15% of its value in the last week alone.

Bordem I guess, when its raining money out there and you aren't getting wet being under the BFW umbrella people tend to leave. Look at ATM and KMD having their takeover offers, much more interesting than BFW who don't release much else, as much as its good company its how the share market works, time is money.

[bucko]

shouldn't be too much longer before they announce their first US site right? Am I right in assuming it would take about a month from finding a site to opening a store? or a bit longer?

[baller18]

Hmm... burgerfuel hopes to open 1000 stores in the usa in 8 years....
1000 stores really? I reckon 200 will be an incredible number?
Shake n shack in america only has 63! They are valued at 2.1billion, share price nearly reached $100 at one stage...
So, if burgerfuel could open 1000 stores by 2022 or something, well the market cap would be????

[Hectorplains]

Hmm... burgerfuel hopes to open 1000 stores in the usa in 8 years....
1000 stores really? I reckon 200 will be an incredible number?
Shake n shack in america only has 63! They are valued at 2.1billion, share price nearly reached $100 at one stage...
So, if burgerfuel could open 1000 stores by 2022 or something, well the market cap would be????

A new store opening, on average, about every three days? :eek2:

[Xerof]

You underestimate the US potential re burger outlets. My favorite, 5 guys and fries, went from about 5 to ~ 1,000 in ~ 9 years, when it commenced franchising in 2003. Is now looking at another 1,500 :eek2:

7458

[Hectorplains]

http://www.forbes.com/​forbes/2012/0806/restaurant-chefs-12-five-guys-jerry-murrell-all-in-the-family.html

This excellent article, albeit a tad dated, highlights the potential and some of the downsides ahead for Burgerfuel. "The faster you go, the harder it is to execute."

[LAC]

From my limited knowledge, burgers in the US seem to have a different makeup... a good burger is basically a bun with a thick beef patty (cooked medium/well) and cheese. All the extras are on the side. I am just wondering if the burger fuel type gourmet burger will be seen as a premium burger? I guess they have the population but still an acquired taste for the US market.
What do you guys think?

[Harvey Specter]

shouldn't be too much longer before they announce their first US site right? Am I right in assuming it would take about a month from finding a site to opening a store? or a bit longer?much longer. Months to find a spot. Months to negotiate lease. A month for design and 2 weeks for install. And that's in they have all their tradies/manufacturers lined up like they do in NZ.

[vin]

Seems this stock bottoms out at early $3 then skyrockets up randomly

[bucko]

so quiet..

that USA Burger is pretty darn good

[whatsup]

Good bounce so far today, if there is a reasonable ann for the U S expansion this share will be very hard to value.

[Harvey Specter]

Good bounce so far today, if there is a reasonable ann for the U S expansion this share will be very hard to value.ON less than $2.5k turnover. Try getting a reasonable holding without causing the price to skyrocket. And what if you want to sell a reasonable amount - good luck with that.

Issues with its liquidity aside, they are going great.

[whatsup]

ON less than $2.5k turnover. Try getting a reasonable holding without causing the price to skyrocket. And what if you want to sell a reasonable amount - good luck with that.

Issues with its liquidity aside, they are going great.

What do you say is a reasonable holding ?

[Harvey Specter]

$15k is the sweet spot for brokerage with ASB from memory so if you bought that much now you would drive the price up to $3.5 (+0.30c) and if you wanted to sell you would drive the price down to $2.80 (-0.4). So a 10%+ spread either way.

I try to keep my holdings over $15k unless I am trying to game a SPP etc.

[kyanar]

I see someone sold 1400 shares at $2.80 today, and tanked the price. :blink:

Serious liquidity issues I guess?

[whatsup]

Fin Ann out but large expenses attributed to the U S investergation costs, no actual mention of the time table ( if it actually goes ahead ) when the first restaurant opens , and IMHO that is what the investors are waiting on, the middle East is very quiet and almost tanking as the expats leave for safer shores, Aust O K and the N Z market is building cash flow for the U S expansion.
That's when the action will start IMO.

[whatsup]

Fin Ann out but large expenses attributed to the U S investergation costs, no actual mention of the time table ( if it actually goes ahead ) when the first restaurant opens , and IMHO that is what the investors are waiting on, the middle East is very quiet and almost tanking as the expats leave for safer shores, Aust O K and the N Z market is building cash flow for the U S expansion.
That's when the action will start IMO.

[whatsup]

Fin Ann out but large expenses attributed to the U S investergation costs, no actual mention of the time table ( if it actually goes ahead ) when the first restaurant opens , and IMHO that is what the investors are waiting on, the middle East is very quiet and almost tanking as the expats leave for safer shores, Aust O K and the N Z market is building cash flow for the U S expansion.
That's when the action will start IMO.

[Crackity]

Fin Ann out but large expenses attributed to the U S investergation costs, no actual mention of the time table ( if it actually goes ahead ) when the first restaurant opens , and IMHO that is what the investors are waiting on, the middle East is very quiet and almost tanking as the expats leave for safer shores, Aust O K and the N Z market is building cash flow for the U S expansion.
That's when the action will start IMO.


Just for for you Baa! ;)

[whatsup]

well said crackity.

[Harvey Specter]

South Iland expansion well under way and plenty to go. Agree US is needed to justify the current price. Though I would have targeted Asia - US has enough burger joints already.

[whatsup]

South Iland expansion well under way and plenty to go. Agree US is needed to justify the current price. Though I would have targeted Asia - US has enough burger joints already.

Agreed but the Fatty Boombahs don't know that !

[tga_trader]

Not reading too much into it but from my quick flick through the HYR;

2.2.1)
REPORTING ENTITY
The consolidated financial statements for the Group
are for the economic entity comprising Burger Fuel
Worldwide Limited and its subsidiaries;
BF Hollywood LLC
BF California One LLC
BF California Two LLC

I'm guessing that'll be the first location?

[Harvey Specter]

Not reading too much into it but from my quick flick through the HYR;

I'm guessing that'll be the first location?interesting. Suggests they will own the stores, rather that just franchise it

[whatsup]

interesting. Suggests they will own the stores, rather that just franchise it

If that is the case there should be a ann as this is a major event and should be a rerating ahead some time .

[Gleaming]

Have to prove concept in market before franchising

[Harvey Specter]

Have to prove concept in market before franchising
They didn't in the Middle East, though that isn't a crowded market like the US.

[Gleaming]

BF has built a good business in the Middle East but had the benefit of being first to market and didnt have any direct comp from QSRs for a number of years. As you know its one thing to scale a business in the absence of competition but California is going to be hard work. Shack shack, In Out Burger etc. In fact it would probably be one of the most competitive burger markets in the world.

Totally agree with you about Asia, im far more bullish on this region. No large burger QSRs have set up shop so they could potentially scale like they did in the Middle East.

Really hope it comes off for them and my guess is we will know shorlty.

[whatsup]

What is going on with B F at the moment $3.00 DOWN to $2.00 , is the business model still intact ?

[Harvey Specter]

What is going on with B F at the moment $3.00 DOWN to $2.00 , is the business model still intact ?$3 never made sense. The NZ stores are going great. Oz not so much. No news from US which is where the overly optimistic price came from.

[Mike9414]

Burgerfuel seems to have drastically oversold their movement into the US markets. OhCal Foods is a tiny little mom and pop joint, not the type of partner I think they were trying to get. It looks like they've also made a mistake in choosing one of the most competitive burger markets in the US in California with some of the most expensive property prices and wages, instead of selecting Texas or Florida which would be much more feasible. I worry that Burgerfuel is in over its head. They've made commitments to moving into the US and are quickly finding the quality of the burgers there (Shake Shack, In-n-out, SmashBurger, Five Guys, Fuddruckers, etc) and the price of those burgers is much more competitive than anywhere else they operate. Even in the Middle East, they are apparently now losing ground once others started moving in - they are just too expensive for what they purport to offer.

[Baa_Baa]

Burgerfuel seems to have drastically oversold their movement into the US markets. OhCal Foods is a tiny little mom and pop joint, not the type of partner I think they were trying to get. It looks like they've also made a mistake in choosing one of the most competitive burger markets in the US in California with some of the most expensive property prices and wages, instead of selecting Texas or Florida which would be much more feasible. I worry that Burgerfuel is in over its head. They've made commitments to moving into the US and are quickly finding the quality of the burgers there (Shake Shack, In-n-out, SmashBurger, Five Guys, Fuddruckers, etc) and the price of those burgers is much more competitive than anywhere else they operate. Even in the Middle East, they are apparently now losing ground once others started moving in - they are just too expensive for what they purport to offer.

Welcome Mike9414. Good observations, thanks. The chart looks deadly as well, having broken down through clear support at $2.20 it's potential for free-fall to $1.50 is high with no technical supports in between. Needs good news to stem the fall.

[silverblizzard888]

Burgerfuel seems to have drastically oversold their movement into the US markets. OhCal Foods is a tiny little mom and pop joint, not the type of partner I think they were trying to get. It looks like they've also made a mistake in choosing one of the most competitive burger markets in the US in California with some of the most expensive property prices and wages, instead of selecting Texas or Florida which would be much more feasible. I worry that Burgerfuel is in over its head. They've made commitments to moving into the US and are quickly finding the quality of the burgers there (Shake Shack, In-n-out, SmashBurger, Five Guys, Fuddruckers, etc) and the price of those burgers is much more competitive than anywhere else they operate. Even in the Middle East, they are apparently now losing ground once others started moving in - they are just too expensive for what they purport to offer.

I agree theres tough competition in the US for burgers and they have clearly underestimated the effort it has taken to start things off i.e location, paper work and supply chain, but don't think its as bad as you think. The Subway founders would have done their homework and put their confidence in Burgerfuel to do well before they offered to assist them in the US, these guys were the masterminds behind Subway so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt in what they see. I've tried Burgerfuel and continue to go back, I like how things are set up and the taste of the food. Ohcal Foods is not a 'tiny mom and pop joint', it has a hand in opening and supporting 2000 subway restaurants (when you compare NZ has about 300 stores, might as well call NZ a kid run section then). I don't think in Middle East they are losing ground, but they sure did a bad licensing deal, but at the end restaurants continue to open.

I think the stock has suffered from the sell down and that it is so quiet as a stock that people lose interest. If there is a stock that will test patience it is Burgerfuel, but when they grow they will really grow into something great. Go read the book Pour Your Heart Into It by Howard Schultz, you'll see how businesses are built and where the real traction is.

[Hectorplains]

$3 never made sense. The NZ stores are going great. Oz not so much. No news from US which is where the overly optimistic price came from.

The whole 'gourmet' burger thing might be a fast food culinary fad that's reached its peak. It's when the vendors of these products reach large numbers that the tipping point tends to be close - Don't get me wrong, the premium burger will remain but it won't have the go-to consumer pull it currently holds... Remember the wealth of takeaway 'Mexican' shops, and even stand alone nacho shacks, of the 90's?

In the Christchurch market Fuel are up against Burgers and Beers, Velvet, Wisconsin and Red Box (probably others too... entry is quick and easy.) They're all pretty much working the same schtick - even Maccas has hit the gourmet button (https://mcdonalds.co.nz/create-your-taste.) Beyond that, all the gastro pubs now offer and aggressively market their burger offerings (Fox and Ferret, Cafe De la Mer, Engineers, Pedal Pusher...) The number of deals (especially - 2 for 1 - through online 'deal' sites, Facebook pages etc) suggests it's a difficult market to keep traction in. Unlimited NZ growth is not a given, and the degree of profitability from their new stores will be crucial.

The US situation is not one to gloss over either, they generated the 'overly optimistic price' with talk of 1000 stores in 8 years - 9 months on from that puffery they still have...none.

Tastes like a high risk proposition to me. GLTH.

[Harvey Specter]

Unlimited NZ growth is not a given, and the degree of profitability from their new stores will be crucial.
.turnover in all NZ stores is going great. It's funny you meantion Chch as the first store is absolutely smashing it that the franchisees haves opened two more. I don't think they are outside CHCH in the south Island yet so plenty of potential for new store growth - I think a timura store is just waiting on the building to be complete.

But yes, "unlimited" growth will not be achieved.

[Hectorplains]

turnover in all NZ stores is going great. It's funny you meantion Chch as the first store is absolutely smashing it that the franchisees haves opened two more. I don't think they are outside CHCH in the south Island yet so plenty of potential for new store growth - I think a timura store is just waiting on the building to be complete.

But yes, "unlimited" growth will not be achieved.

Their Invercargill store is already open - late last year. Just out of interest how do you know that the Christchurch store is "absolutely smashing it"? In the accounts they're all lumped together as the "NZ sector."

[silverblizzard888]

Their Invercargill store is already open - late last year. Just out of interest how do you know that the Christchurch store is "absolutely smashing it"? In the accounts they're all lumped together as the "NZ sector."

Any person living in Christchurch that is a regular at burgerfuel would tell you the store in Christchurch is doing amazingly well.

[Hectorplains]

Any person living in Christchurch that is a regular at burgerfuel would tell you the store in Christchurch is doing amazingly well.

Hmmm, on opening 2 years ago maybe. Yeah, they are popular but well short of the superlatives that are getting chucked around here. They described the NZ fast food market as "over saturated" (dear me...) yet are committed to expanding into it. Add to that poor growth in Australia and no growth in the US, I imagine that those cash reserves are taking a beating. Wouldn't be surprised to see a CR this year.

[silverblizzard888]

Hmmm, on opening 2 years ago maybe. Yeah, they are popular but well short of the superlatives that are getting chucked around here. They described the NZ fast food market as "over saturated" (dear me...) yet are committed to expanding into it. Add to that poor growth in Australia and no growth in the US, I imagine that those cash reserves are taking a beating. Wouldn't be surprised to see a CR this year.

I have a decade worth of restaurant experience and I judge the peak and down time for customers and from my view the store brings in very good numbers. If they did a capital raising it would be money for expansion rather than them being in trouble.

[Hectorplains]

I have a decade worth of restaurant experience and I judge the peak and down time for customers and from my view the store brings in very good numbers. If they did a capital raising it would be money for expansion rather than them being in trouble.

While the Riccarton store does a good trade, it's numbers are way down on previous (long gone are the long queues) and they now have some serious competition too. On-line reviews suggest a mixed customer experience.

The cash chest they had was earmarked for expansion. The middle east is static. In Aussie and the US (- when they actually open there) they're a 'me-too' in a cluttered field. NZ revenues won't support their overseas plans and there overseas expansion to date has been less than stellar.

It wouldn't take much of a slow down in revenue growth for this stock to be in trouble. Even on the current sp it still trades at crazy multiples. They need everything to line up to support that - to me though they're looking at some huge head winds.

[Hectorplains]

I was in the Riveria of the South Island for the weekend. The position of BF's Timaru site looks good. The store seems a wee way off opening thou' - I thought they'd hired staff at the end of last year and they'd be under way by now?

[Harvey Specter]

I was in the Riveria of the South Island for the weekend. The position of BF's Timaru site looks good. The store seems a wee way off opening thou' - I thought they'd hired staff at the end of last year and they'd be under way by now?Another month or two - The staff haven't started training yet last I heard. Pita Pit, Columbus Coffee and Hells going next door so the area should draw people in.

Considering the drive through at McD down the round gets to over flowing on a Friday night (and the KFC pretty close to overflowing too) it should do well.

[fungus pudding]

Another month or two - The staff haven't started training yet last I heard. Pita Pit, Columbus Coffee and Hells going next door so the area should draw people in.

Considering the drive through at McD down the round gets to over flowing on a Friday night (and the KFC pretty close to overflowing too) it should do well.

If anyone wants to see how burgers are sold, it's almost worth a trip to Fergburger in Queenstown. Permanent queue, not just in the street but up the street. It's an amazing operation.

[Harvey Specter]

If anyone wants to see how burgers are sold, it's almost worth a trip to Fergburger in Queenstown. Permanent queue, not just in the street but up the street. It's an amazing operation.Apparently they have openned up in Auckland now. Anyone report how they are doing up there?

Permanent queues out the door suggests they aren't catering to the clients needs and are just trading off their reputation. Having said that, they have been doing it for years (decades?) so that reputation must be good. Personally I dont think i would queue for a burger.

[fungus pudding]

Apparently they have openned up in Auckland now. Anyone report how they are doing up there?

Permanent queues out the door suggests they aren't catering to the clients needs and are just trading off their reputation. Having said that, they have been doing it for years (decades?) so that reputation must be good. Personally I dont think i would queue for a burger.

Ah - but you might in Queenstown. It's a ritual for visitors. Sort of like going to New York and forgetting to climb the statue of liberty - you just do it.
Even I have queued for half an hour. They come out and tell you how long you will be waiting, and they're right down to the minute. 'You will reach the counter in 28 minutes and will receive your order 20 mins after placing order' sort of thing. Amazing. I can't see it working in Auckland although the burgers are brilliant. It's a Queenstown thing. Everyone on holiday and in a strange way it's fun. Loads of good humour in the queue.

[whatsup]

IMHO The bottom has been reached , big seller has gone , back up towards $ 3.00 now.

[fungus pudding]

IMHO The bottom has been reached , big seller has gone , back up towards $ 3.00 now.
I'll go and get some and sell them to you for $2.50. :t_up:

[Hectorplains]

IMHO The bottom has been reached , big seller has gone , back up towards $ 3.00 now.

I hadn't noticed a 'big seller' - the volume has been the usual piddling amount, or is your comment on their girth - too many burgers perhaps? :)

[fungus pudding]

I hadn't noticed a 'big seller' - the volume has been the usual piddling amount, or is your comment on their girth - too many burgers perhaps? :)

Don't frighten him - I want my $2.50 :D

[GTM 3442]

So who would be interested in Fergburger(?) were they to float?

[Hectorplains]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11610883

"A BurgerFuel spokeswoman said the US entry had been complex for reasons outside the firm's control.
The regulatory aspects of operating both a franchised, retail food business, and a business of foreign origin in the USA are considerable and vary from state to state," she said. "It's important that we understand this market as much as possible before we make any moves."

Hmmm, maybe then it was not so clever making grandiose announcements before they've had time to "understand this {the US} market." The worry is the cash burn on this dithering. No positive news either on the Aussie front. Communication to SH are not looking like a strong point.

Regards sp - there's more than one way to look at that in regards the illiquidity of their register...

I'm still betting on them having to CR - before the sp dissipates further?

[Hectorplains]

turnover in all NZ stores is going great. It's funny you meantion Chch as the first store is absolutely smashing it that the franchisees haves opened two more. I don't think they are outside CHCH in the south Island yet so plenty of potential for new store growth - I think a timura store is just waiting on the building to be complete.


Christchurch has three stores, only two are owned by the same franchisee. Yes, the original Chch franchisees have opened a second one but it is a much smaller shop. Franchisees owning multiple stores also could be seen to contradict BF's stated franchise model - owner/operator. Timaru appears to be someway off from opening but who'd know - the company has a policy of not commenting on new stores until they are open - this unexplained stance fits with their generally weak communication.

[Harvey Specter]

Christchurch has three stores, only two are owned by the same franchisee.

I always get confused when I take the Delorean for a drive - must stop speeding. The fourth chch store will open soon and is owned by the guys that own 2 already. I think it will be open before the Timaru one. A lot of the franchisees own more than 1 store.

[kyanar]

No positive news either on the Aussie front. Communication to SH are not looking like a strong point.


Their communication with customers is just as bad. Despite the hype about opening three stores in Brisbane, they've actually closed two of them, taking them back down to one. I asked their info email why this was, and they would only tell me that they closed them to "focus resources on other locations" which reads like code for "we're having some trouble competing with Grill'd" (and why wouldn't they - hard to compete with a company that doesn't actually have to pay legal wages!)

[Hectorplains]

The fourth chch store will open soon and is owned by the guys that own 2 already. I think it will be open before the Timaru one. A lot of the franchisees own more than 1 store.

I presume you mean Hereford Street? The only started advertising for staff at the end of last week, Timaru were advertising end of last year. The space too looks some way off yet from ready.


Their communication with customers is just as bad. Despite the hype about opening three stores in Brisbane, they've actually closed two of them, taking them back down to one. I asked their info email why this was, and they would only tell me that they closed them to "focus resources on other locations" which reads like code for "we're having some trouble competing with Grill'd" (and why wouldn't they - hard to compete with a company that doesn't actually have to pay legal wages!)

Yeah, they're back to the original shop only? The 3rd store only opened in May last year! The media announcement for this makes interesting reading. I doubt Grill'd is the key problem - their scummy employment regime was changed a year ago after they lost the Court battle. Bigger issues in Aussie too come...

[Hectorplains]

BF is having Aussie issues. Here's some ideas on why they're struggling to get any traction in the other Island.

1. POOR LOCATIONS: Take Newton – the main (only?) pulling factor here is the Newton Pub. This has been recently rebranded. They have restaurant and bar menus. Both have fresh and vibrant offerings. The bar menu includes a range of gourmet burgers. They are priced at BF level but they also feature in promotions – beer and burger deals. Why cross the road when it’s available at the bar?
Other locations like Church Street in Parra are dripping with fast food shops – it’s like the burger mile. It's hard to attract a loyal audience amongst strong and deep rooted opposition.
2. NO VIBE - Online review sites have minimal reviews for BF – compared to the successful burger bars that attract many. These are often fervent in their praise / condemnation - either way it’s best when you’re being talked about. These sites have apps that allow immediate upload of photos and reviews. The audience that indulges in this are BF’s main demographic. BF is not seen as ‘cool’ in Aust. Many reviews comment on them being ‘kiwi’ (this is not used as a compliment) and ‘expensive.’ In Yelp’s 50 best burger joints in Australia survey at the end of last year, BF didn’t feature despite the advantage of having more than one restaurant.
3. CULTURE – as any number of Kiwi bands found through the years, it’s one thing to crack NZ, with Aussie you’re starting all over again. BF's ‘lads’ package (fast cars, big burgers and loud music) sounds like it should go down like a Toohey’s on a hot Friday night. It should but it isn’t. Instead the loud purple paint jobs et al are seen as strange and dated (“what people in the 80’s thought the future would look like”) and trying too hard.
4. COST – $25- 30 for a burger, chips and drink. There are many established burger eateries – this is a mature market. What is BFs point of difference? It’s just an expensive ‘me-too’. Combo deals are the norm - but BF's refuses to engage in package deals. They cling instead to the notion that as a high end product they shouldn't 'cheapen' their offering with combos. Weirdly they then offer free burger day (mid Feb '16 )-an expensive (desperate) promo - that says what about your product?

[whatsup]

On the up today big spreads is there pending news out of the U S ? or has that seller finally disappeared ?

[mondograss]

Lol, on volume of 3000 shares.

[bucko]

Almost been a year since the first USA announcement, do Burger Fuel release Quarterlies? I can't see any type of announcement so far this year on the market

[QOH]

They have just opened a store in Paraparaumu over the weekend

[Hectorplains]

Almost been a year since the first USA announcement, do Burgerfuel release Quarterlies? I can't see any type of announcement so far this year on the market

No they don't, there's been nothing since Dec '15. They responded to the Herald's questions last Month that the US situation was taking a lot longer than they'd thought. Which helpfully pointed out the blindingly obvious.

IN NZ the Parapara has opened but it hasn't even warranted a mention on their website - unlike previous openings. It's not in their online stores list ("store locator") either. Previously they'd been good at keeping the website up to date. Maybe it's been engulfed by the wider communication malaise at BF?

[Hectorplains]

http://www.propertyweek.com/in-depth/market-features/saturated-fat-glasgow%E2%80%99s-burger-glut-threatens-to-exhaust-the-market/5080326.article#
Has Glasgow reached ‘peak burger’? Stand on the corner of St Vincent and West Nile Streets and you would be forgiven for thinking so.

On one corner Gourmet Burger and Five Guys jostle a brioche bun’s throw across from Handmade Burger Co, itself just a short roll of a gherkin from indy burger shack Bread Meets Bread.
Other posh burger competitors in town or on their way include Byron Hamburgers, Shake Shack, Burger & Lobster and, eyeing each other across West Regent Street, Meat Bar and Jacker De Viande.
The burger brands are also pushing out of the city centre to the malls at Braehead and Silverburn. Budget veterans Burger King and McDonald’s, meanwhile, have seven and five Glasgow outlets respectively.
But is this a fad of which jaded diners will soon tire?
There is a risk of saturation, says Gordon Nicolson, a surveyor on the retail and leisure team at Savills. “There is only so much it can grow as rents continue to get pushed up,” he says. “There has to be a level this implodes at. For a city with a population of 550,000, there are only so many people who look to eat a burger. We’ve seen it before with Italian restaurants.”
Recent arrivals have lately been paying a steep £45-£50/sq ft, says Paul Shiells, director of licensed and leisure with Colliers International in Scotland, suggesting that the most prized locations have already been snapped up. “We are seeing operators take space almost irrespective of location. We are now starting to get to the bottom of the barrel. You would have to be very sure of yourself if you were opening a new place.
“If you go out at weekends in Glasgow it’s mobbed, but Monday to Friday is there enough trade in these £15 burger places to last? I can see calamity about to hit. I think we will lose someone a year or two from now.”
The surge may be driven in part by the growth imperatives of those brands with private equity backers looking to paint a strong growth and turnover picture. Outlets can get six- and 12-month rent-free periods that could flatter the longer-term outlook as their owners look to exit, perhaps at a time when jaded palates may be ready to move on to the next fast-food fad, says Shiells. “It could be a case of pass the parcel.”
And the emerging trend in town? Be afraid, burger-patty flippers - a pizza revival is under way, Shiells warns.
“In 2016 pizza is coming back rapidly again. We’ve had enough burgers right now.”

For Glasgow read any city in Australia and the US. Of the US listed gourmet burger players the big three are all trading at their low (1. Red Robin Gourmet Burger 2. Habit Burger 3. Shake Shack.)

[Sideshow Bob]

Not exactly a glowing endorsement...... 5/10

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11630267

[RGR367]

Not exactly a glowing endorsement...... 5/10

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11630267

The only thing I believed on what he said was that the burger could get soggy. Well, that's what you get to experience when eating a huge really tasty burger with a truly hefty price.

disc: not a shareholder

[Harvey Specter]

Not exactly a glowing endorsement...... 5/10

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11630267Store was packed. 10/10 for shareholders.

He isn't the target market. The target market were loving it.

[mondograss]

All burgers go soggy as the sauces get into the bun and the lettuce wilts with the heat, it's just the way it is. The fact that it was so good when it was fresh shows that it was a really good burger. He should have just eaten it quicker. I do agree with him about the charging for the sauce though, I've always thought that was a bit s**t.

[Harvey Specter]

The fact that it was so good when it was fresh shows that it was a really good burger. He should have just eaten it quicker.Yip - Novice. Eat the burger first, then eat the fries.

[LAC]

When comparing burgers with burgers and price with price, there isnt much better than BF out there, in NZ that is.

[peat]

When comparing burgers with burgers and price with price, there isnt much better than BF out there, in NZ that is.
specially for the vegetarian options, they are a-m-a-z-I-n-g

[Hectorplains]

Store was packed. 10/10 for shareholders.

He isn't the target market. The target market were loving it.

Pity the target market in the US continue to go hungry then. A year on from the stateside expansion announcement - and zip to show.

[Hectorplains]

http://www.m2now.co.nz/venison-blue-cheese-single-malt

Hope SH are happy to keep funding this nonsense...is it in the name of promotion?

[whatsup]

Back down to the pre American tieup price, I guess that "deal " is really dead now , so much for hype !

[fungus pudding]

When comparing burgers with burgers and price with price, there isnt much better than BF out there, in NZ that is.

Fergburger, Queenstown is NZ's best.

[Grunter]

When comparing burgers with burgers and price with price, there isnt much better than BF out there, in NZ that is.

Burger Burger or Better Burger are far better. Although they only have one or two stores each.

There are plenty of places better than Burger Fuel. Which is why they have no traction in Australia.

[Rep]

Burger Burger or Better Burger are far better. Although they only have one or two stores each.

There are plenty of places better than Burger Fuel. Which is why they have no traction in Australia.

Fergburger, Better Burger, Burger Burger, Murder Burger et al - you can make better, tastier people products with expensive ingredients - the super hard nut to crack is taking your concept, transplanting it somewhere else and making a decent amount of money to justify the investment.

The whole basis of QSR is to make a consistent product on an industrial scale with the economies of scale and price it to sell in quantities large enough that the volume makes you money.

[Grunter]

Fergburger, Better Burger, Burger Burger, Murder Burger et al - you can make better, tastier people products with expensive ingredients - the super hard nut to crack is taking your concept, transplanting it somewhere else and making a decent amount of money to justify the investment.

The whole basis of QSR is to make a consistent product on an industrial scale with the economies of scale and price it to sell in quantities large enough that the volume makes you money.

But why would I fork out $20 on Burger Fuel when I can get a nicer, tastier burger elsewhere? Just because there are lots of Burger Fuels around, that does not mean I will choose Burger Fuel over a unique local offering?

I'd also rather not sit in a Burger Fuel for 45 minutes on a Friday night waiting for a cold burger and cold soggy fries. The issue with Burger Fuel is that their concept cannot replicate quality at peak periods, nor deliver the 10 minutes max order time they need to be. And that experience is why customers would seek an alternative offering.

[Rep]

But why would I fork out $20 on Burger Fuel when I can get a nicer, tastier burger elsewhere? Just because there are lots of Burger Fuels around, that does not mean I will choose Burger Fuel over a unique local offering?

I'd also rather not sit in a Burger Fuel for 45 minutes on a Friday night waiting for a cold burger and cold soggy fries. The issue with Burger Fuel is that their concept cannot replicate quality at peak periods, nor deliver the 10 minutes max order time they need to be. And that experience is why customers would seek an alternative offering.

I'm not disagreeing with you Grunter. There's previous comments about how 'other' burgers are better than BF's and some will be. The hardest trick with QSR is consistency and experience - if you can't get these when you want them then you will vote with your feet and go elsewhere. There is so much choice that to hold a market position you have to at least be able to meet what the market provides or better it for the price point you sell at - one lousy experience will probably mean you won't try again for some time - the point is that lots of outlets make better burgers but doing consistently across multiple locations is a very, very hard thing to do.

[Harvey Specter]

The funny thing is you are all talking about better burgers, yet McD and the King outsell all the others which disproves your point and supports Rep's point about consistency.

[Grunter]

The funny thing is you are all talking about better burgers, yet McD and the King outsell all the others which disproves your point and supports Rep's point about consistency.

Price point is a bit of a factor too I think :p

[Harvey Specter]

Price point is a bit of a factor too I think :pHave you tried one of those custom made McD burgers. Made BF look cheap though I did go all out.

comparison wise, you do need to be comparing the McD angus range or the double whoppers from the King.

[heisenberg]

Fergburger, Queenstown is NZ's best.

Correct. Closely followed by Velvet Burger, Dunedin

[Rosco]

The rumour mill is working overtime with these guys. I have heard from several people that the USA expansion has been put on hold indefinitely.

Management need to inform the shareholders of the situation (especially since we have long surpassed the expected late 2015 introduction without any clearer idea of the situation). In these instances both current and potential shareholders will be assuming no news = bad news, hence the continuous SP slide. Better to know the bad news from the horses mouth rather than people having to find out via second hand gossip.

[In4a$]

The funny thing is you are all talking about better burgers, yet McD and the King outsell all the others which disproves your point and supports Rep's point about consistency.

I think that has a lot to do with floor space as well. B/Fuel always seem to lack seating space, so if there are a few of you eating out its easier to go to one of the other big 4 and get a seat. Love their burgers but hate eating standing up or crowded into a corner.
Disc: Not holding, but have traded a few times and made a $ or 2.

[bucko]

Hopefully thats just a rumour! If it's not though there should be some sort of market announcement soon, especially considering the amount of time since the last update relating to the USA plans:

NZX Listing Rules:
Once an issuer becomes aware of material information, it must be immediately released to themarket. In NZXR’s view, “immediately” means “promptly and without delay”

[Rosco]

Hopefully thats just a rumour! If it's not though there should be some sort of market announcement soon, especially considering the amount of time since the last update relating to the USA plans:

NZX Listing Rules:
Once an issuer becomes aware of material information, it must be immediately released to themarket. In NZXR’s view, “immediately” means “promptly and without delay”

You would hope that's the case. The below statement was published in the half yearly report back in December 2015 and was in my opinion very vague (ie what hurdles have been overcome??).


Entering the US market has considerable regulatory and legal requirements, all of which have been a series of challenges and learning curves, with relative costs associated. We are of the view that most of these hurdles have now been overcome allowing management to focus on the location of our first US store. In June we announced our partnership with OhCal Foods LLC who are Subway®’s largest Development Agents with 2,100 restaurants in their portfolio. OhCal Foods LLC brings considerable operating experience, local talent and market intelligence to our venture. This has seen the commencement of a new phase of our market entry and a focus on particular market segments, as well as desired locations. Acquiring retail sites requires a diligent and considered approach in order to ensure a successful launch and a sustainable business. The US retail market has entered a phase of high demand in select areas and we have had to come to grips with the realities of securing good locations in markets where high key money considerations are now a reality.

C'mon Burgerfuel give us some sort of update, even just to acknowledge that the the proposed expansion is still a priority (or not). It's frustrating to see the SP drop month after month on the back of zero news.

[Southern_Belle]

Decent price rise of 21% today, no announcement. What is going on??

[axe]

Decent price rise of 21% today, no announcement. What is going on??


5 trades and $4k turn over - the brokers are doing well :)

[Hectorplains]

Decent price rise of 21% today, no announcement. What is going on??

There's a bit of a pattern to share price moves like this off a tiny base with this stock. The story out of both the Aussie and the US ain't gonna be pretty... NZ growth will top out too.

[bucko]

Overall good announcement today I think, happy with no debt and cash of $6.1M. The US venture seems to have been held up by the Subway company not BFW and I am happy they decided to wait instead of charging head first into the US Market.

Only shade I would throw on this is...why the Middle East? I know they state there has been no cost to the group for the store closures but why are they operating in a market that has so much instability and little room for store growth?

[Harvey Specter]

Only shade I would throw on this is...why the Middle East? I know they state there has been no cost to the group for the store closures but why are they operating in a market that has so much instability and little room for store growth?I think BF was approached. The regional Franchisee wanted a burger chain but for political reasons, didn't want to use an American Brand. I am sure BF would have learned alot from that roll out and mostly at the expense of the regional Franchisee so was clearly a good thing to agree too.

[trader_jackson]

Seems like PEB is not the only one facing delays in the US... slid into a loss today as well

Revenue growth in current markets is good (I suppose) but no where near enough to justify the current share price

Disclosure: I have enough speculative stocks!

[Rosco]

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11656292

[Hectorplains]

Overall good announcement today I think

I'd hate to see what a bad result looked like then.

Cash flow is unimpressive. Detail on Aust is lacking - it sounds like a mess (when you cut throu' the verbiage.) US is about to have life support pulled. So, their future is yet more into an already supersaturated Kiwi market (Lumsden are you ready for a BF?) and back (but with the revolution of bigger stores?) to the Middle East? What a mess...

[whatsup]

S P falling off the cliff today, WHATSUP !!, have they give up completely on the U S now, S P back to where it was over 3 years ago, WHATSUP !!

[Hectorplains]

S P falling off the cliff today, WHATSUP !!, have they give up completely on the U S now, S P back to where it was over 3 years ago, WHATSUP !!


Only around 9000 shares traded.

[Hectorplains]

It's been a month since they said they'd have a decision on the US in a "few weeks."

[Rosco]

It's been a month since they said they'd have a decision on the US in a "few weeks."

Yeah I sold mine last month. Their lack of communication with shareholders and sticking to their word concerned me. I see the share price going south to sub $1 'if' they confirm that the US entry has been either axed or put on hold indefinitely.

[Hectorplains]

'Stock Takes' in the Herald today:


It's been a few weeks since BurgerFuel said it would give an update on its United States expansion plans in a few weeks.
But it looks as if several more may pass before investors receive more information on the move.
On June 14, while reporting its full-year financial result, the restaurant operator revealed its much-awaited US entry, leveraging a partnership with Subway-linked Franchise Brands, was facing further delays.
"At this stage we have not had confirmation from Franchise Brands as to their further involvement in [BurgerFuel] or not," the company said. "We will update the market as soon as this is confirmed, which we expect to happen in the next few weeks."
On Tuesday, a BurgerFuel spokeswoman said the process "at Subway's end" was taking longer than expected. "It's important to note that we are not viewing this as a negative. We hope to have an update for the market in a few weeks."
BurgerFuel shares - which hit a record close of $3.79 in November 2014, up from $1.50 before the US announcement - closed at $1.55 last night.
They're "not viewing this as a negative." So, is it a positive delay? Whether they go ahead with their US expansion seems to be totally out of their hands - how's that a good thing?

Why could they not inform the market that the announcement would be delayed?

[silverblizzard888]

'Stock Takes' in the Herald today:


It's been a few weeks since BurgerFuel said it would give an update on its United States expansion plans in a few weeks.
But it looks as if several more may pass before investors receive more information on the move.
On June 14, while reporting its full-year financial result, the restaurant operator revealed its much-awaited US entry, leveraging a partnership with Subway-linked Franchise Brands, was facing further delays.
"At this stage we have not had confirmation from Franchise Brands as to their further involvement in [BurgerFuel] or not," the company said. "We will update the market as soon as this is confirmed, which we expect to happen in the next few weeks."
On Tuesday, a BurgerFuel spokeswoman said the process "at Subway's end" was taking longer than expected. "It's important to note that we are not viewing this as a negative. We hope to have an update for the market in a few weeks."
BurgerFuel shares - which hit a record close of $3.79 in November 2014, up from $1.50 before the US announcement - closed at $1.55 last night.
They're "not viewing this as a negative." So, is it a positive delay? Whether they go ahead with their US expansion seems to be totally out of their hands - how's that a good thing?

Why could they not inform the market that the announcement would be delayed?

Well at least Subway are thinking about it rather than an outright no, it'd be a good way of continuing the legacy of the Subway founder if Subway did choose to keep the pursuit alive.
Burgerfuel did say they expect to know in a few weeks so its not too material if its outside that time frame by a little. And coming from a company that barely ever communicates with its shareholders then its not surprising they will post anything unless it was considered material.

[Harvey Specter]

i think everyone is miss reading in the 'subway' part. It is a private equity fund majority funded, but not managed by the Subway founders. It is not subway or the subway founders who identified and bought into Burgerfuel. I may be wrong but that is my recollection from when the deal was first announced.

[bucko]

Have Franchise Brands just sold out?



For this disclosure,--





(a) total number held in class: 5,963,355





(b) total in class: 59,633,550





(c) total percentage held in class: 10.00%





For last disclosure,--





(a) total number held in class: 29,816,775





(b) total in class: 59,633,550





(c) total percentage held in class: 50.00%

[SirSlingy]

Looks like it... seems the US expansion is a dead duck then huh. This will hurt the SP short term I would guess....

[silverblizzard888]

Yeah deals dead, notice writes:

" Termination of all existing arrangements between FBLLC and BFW, including FBLLC's call options to purchase up to 23,853,420 ordinary shares in BFW from Mason Roberts Holdings Limited ("MRHL") (the majority shareholder of BFW)"

But entry will proceed:

https://www.nzx.com/companies/BFW/announcements/287714

"Burger Fuel Worldwide Limited (BFW) have today announced they will be proceeding with their plans to open in the United States. The first BurgerFuel® restaurant will be located in the mighty Midwest, which has been chosen following a detailed study of the United States and its potential for the brand’s success. "

Though provides a challenge now that they are going out on their own without the 'full' support of franchise brands to underpin success.

[whatsup]

Yeah deals dead, notice writes:

" Termination of all existing arrangements between FBLLC and BFW, including FBLLC's call options to purchase up to 23,853,420 ordinary shares in BFW from Mason Roberts Holdings Limited ("MRHL") (the majority shareholder of BFW)"

But entry will proceed:

https://www.nzx.com/companies/BFW/announcements/287714

"Burger Fuel Worldwide Limited (BFW) have today announced they will be proceeding with their plans to open in the United States. The first BurgerFuel® restaurant will be located in the mighty Midwest, which has been chosen following a detailed study of the United States and its potential for the brand’s success. "

Though provides a challenge now that they are going out on their own without the 'full' support of franchise brands to underpin success.

Looks like they are going to go the U S expansion on their own, heeeeeeemmmm, U S burgers taste totally different than the B F's burgers that we have here in N Z, maybe that's why they are not a such a great hit in Aussie!

[kyanar]

Looks like they are going to go the U S expansion on their own, heeeeeeemmmm, U S burgers taste totally different than the B F's burgers that we have here in N Z, maybe that's why they are not a such a great hit in Aussie!

I think they recently worked that out - for the first time they've introduced a range of burgers in Australia that uses 100% Aussie beef.

[whatsup]

I think they recently worked that out - for the first time they've introduced a range of burgers in Australia that uses 100% Aussie beef.

That maybe the case but they have markedly different burgers over there both in presentation, taste and size !

[Harvey Specter]

From the looks of it, Franchise Brands haven't sold, but have let their option to purchase more lapse (or waived it). Therefore they still own the 10% they previously own, but if they wanted to increase, would have to do on market.

Does anyone remember if that option had a fixed price? It might be they were out of the money.

[whatsup]

Looks like it... seems the US expansion is a dead duck then huh. This will hurt the SP short term I would guess....

What a complete s!uff this has been today IMHO the NZX should have put a T H in place while these 2 very important anns were digested by the market as there was some very confused trading today with the earliest trades, once the U S store opening were announced the market liked that ann and has acted accordingly, hope there is follow through with this as there would have been a very different approach in Aust with the ASX.

[silverblizzard888]

What a complete s!uff this has been today IMHO the NZX should have put a T H in place while these 2 very important anns were digested by the market as there was some very confused trading today with the earliest trades, once the U S store opening were announced the market liked that ann and has acted accordingly, hope there is follow through with this as there would have been a very different approach in Aust with the ASX.

Yes I agree its pretty bad of the NZX to release one notice at 8.47am that would be interpreted as dead fish in the pond and not going ahead and one that comes in at 10.03am after some transactions had already gone ahead that would counter the prior one. Either NZX messed up or Burgerfuel on material information (both flagged as price sensitive). In big cases they would be liable under action from the FMA, still is liable but since its not heavily traded then damage was limited to a few trades.

[Hectorplains]

"Although it could be possible for BurgerFuel to move forward in this market independently of Franchise Brands, we feel the potential support available from a large US-based organisation is essential to our success in this market and at this stage, we are not prepared to move forward without that support," the company said.

That was June. Two months later and that partnership is now no longer 'essential'? This just adds to their credibility issues...

Plenty of competition waiting for them too: http://theindyalist.cityvoter.com/best/burger/cheap-eats/indianapolis

[silverblizzard888]

"Although it could be possible for BurgerFuel to move forward in this market independently of Franchise Brands, we feel the potential support available from a large US-based organisation is essential to our success in this market and at this stage, we are not prepared to move forward without that support," the company said.

That was June. Two months later and that partnership is now no longer 'essential'? This just adds to their credibility issues...

Plenty of competition waiting for them too: http://theindyalist.cityvoter.com/best/burger/cheap-eats/indianapolis

That is what I meant above that FMA could prosecute them for saying something like that in June and making it material and then based on the first notice people will think the venture isn't going ahead and sell out and then 3 minutes after market open they release saying they will enter with the partnership. Thats credibility issue and lacking prudence too.

Yes I think competition will be tough. One thing I think they still don't do well is their chips, apart from the delicious aioli sauce, if you eat the chips its only ok by itself. I see your in Christchurch if you try Burgers and Beer chips, now thoses are excellent. Burgers are good, but same with the ones in the states so it'd come down to pricing and marketing. Burgerfuel have proven in a more competitive market like Australia that they underestimate the competition and didnt start well, so I feel US will be mind blowing for them unless they have learnt well.

[GTM 3442]

They will have picked up some smarts from the Middle East mall operations, where they are up against many of the major players.

With luck.

[Hectorplains]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/BFW/announcements/290037

Significant change in direction away from the franchise model. US debut not keeping them busy enough?

[Hectorplains]

“We are confident that we will get something off the ground in America soon" 23/8/16

We must be due an update announcement 'soon' then? Or not...

The new Christchurch stores - Hereford Street especially - are hiring significantly younger staff (16 -17 year old demographic - as opposed to the previous 20+) I presume they offer greater roster flexibility? It does align to the hiring practices of the lower end food chains though, and alters the 'feel' . Traffic flow through this store is very low. Spitfire and Ferrymead both seem to be slow too. Hereford should improve, it looks like an excellent positioning for an inner city store. The other two, I'm not so sure. I guess that's primarily the franchisee's problem though.

[Harvey Specter]

The other two, I'm not so sure. I guess that's primarily the franchisee's problem though.Correct. The Franchisor takes their percentage of revenue whether the stores are profitable or not.

Spitfire is still doign good turnover. Ferrymead is not that great but still ok.

I think there are two franchisees in chch, one owns 3 stores (bush Inn, Spitfire and 1 other, ferrymead I think), the other the other two so the change in staff could be franchisee preference as opposed to a change.

[bucko]

Almost 4 months now since they announced they were entering the US market alone and 18 months since it first announced its intentions of entering the market.....551 days and still no news on when

[peat]

the team is in Indianapolis and are announcing its first US store location soon

[Hectorplains]

Almost 4 months now since they announced they were entering the US market alone and 18 months since it first announced its intentions of entering the market.....551 days and still no news on when


https://www.nzx.com/companies/BFW/announcements/294041

Not a lot to enthuse over here. 3.4% sales growth. Sounds like it's all over bar the shouting in Australia too - reasons given will be exactly the same stateside.

Funniest bit is -"Business in Saudi Arabia has continued to be challenging due to fluctuating oil prices" - Ummm, okay drawing a long correlation there.

[Hectorplains]

http://www.ibj.com/blogs/3-property-lines/post/61825-roundup-another-musk-eatery-coming-burger-fuel-commits-to-broad-ripple

First US store location leaked. Looks like a good spot for them, "Broad Ripple's position as a cornerstone of Indianapolis' youth culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_culture) and nightlife (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightlife) is a result of its thriving bar scene and the nearby presence of Butler University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butler_University). Staying true to the neighborhood motto "we're open if you are," numerous Broad Ripple bars and restaurants remain open as late as 3am – often on weekdays as well as weekends. The neighborhood is home to many of Indianapolis' locally owned restaurants, independent art galleries, private boutiques (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boutique) and specialty shops, and the popular Monon Trail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monon_Trail). Within just a few city blocks one can find a wide variety of food, including Chinese, Indian, Mexican, Mediterranean, Italian, Cajun, Middle Eastern, French, English, and Japanese as well as traditional American fare and four independent microbreweries. Entertainment offerings include Crackers a professional comedy club and multiple venues for live music, showcasing both local artists and nationally touring acts in genres such as rock, hip hop, country, and jazz." - Wikipedia

[Raz]

http://www.ibj.com/blogs/3-property-lines/post/61825-roundup-another-musk-eatery-coming-burger-fuel-commits-to-broad-ripple

First US store location leaked. Looks like a good spot for them, "Broad Ripple's position as a cornerstone of Indianapolis' youth culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_culture) and nightlife (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightlife) is a result of its thriving bar scene and the nearby presence of Butler University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butler_University). Staying true to the neighborhood motto "we're open if you are," numerous Broad Ripple bars and restaurants remain open as late as 3am – often on weekdays as well as weekends. The neighborhood is home to many of Indianapolis' locally owned restaurants, independent art galleries, private boutiques (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boutique) and specialty shops, and the popular Monon Trail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monon_Trail). Within just a few city blocks one can find a wide variety of food, including Chinese, Indian, Mexican, Mediterranean, Italian, Cajun, Middle Eastern, French, English, and Japanese as well as traditional American fare and four independent microbreweries. Entertainment offerings include Crackers a professional comedy club and multiple venues for live music, showcasing both local artists and nationally touring acts in genres such as rock, hip hop, country, and jazz." - Wikipedia

I know the area..they will face serious competition in that area, will be interesting.

[Beagle]

Haven't looked at this one for ages but brought up the two year chart this morning just for interest. WOW, talk about a steady decline...you'd be a brave person to believe in this story any more.
Latest expansion into the U.S. reminds me of the days when Pumpkin Patch said their U.S. stores were going to be a huge growth story...and we all know how "well" that ended !

[bucko]

Still nothing

[Hectorplains]

Tensions rising in the Middle East. Maybe that'll drive up burger sales. Comfort food and all that...or not.

[bucko]

Hey,

Thanks for getting in touch. I look after investor relations here at BurgerFuel.

As soon as we have any relevant news to release around our USA entry, we will alert the NZX and all shareholders.

Let me know if I can help you with anything else.

Kate

Very troubling, the share price has taken a beating.

With Trump being opposed to foreign business, do you see this having any sort of impact on BFuel? If ingredients are sourced from within the states etc

[Hectorplains]

Very troubling, the share price has taken a beating.

With Trump being opposed to foreign business, do you see this having any sort of impact on BFuel? If ingredients are sourced from within the states etc

Signs up at Broad Ripple. Conversion nearing completion. News of the opening can't be far off.

[silverblizzard888]

Looks like US store has lift off!
Chris Mason stated he expects the new Burgerfuel in US to be open on 1st May.


Source: (Pg1) https://issuu.com/broadripplegazette/docs/brg_v14n06i the March issue of Broadripple

[bucko]

I'm sorry but this really annoys me, how are we getting our information from a local newspaper and not the company we have invested money in?

Would this not constitute a requirement to disclose all relevant information to the market?

Great find though silverB

[silverblizzard888]

I'm sorry but this really annoys me, how are we getting our information from a local newspaper and not the company we have invested money in?

Would this not constitute a requirement to disclose all relevant information to the market?

Its only material when the store opens as until the store opens, its only a possibility that it will open and if every company on NZX went on possibilities it'd cause havoc, as per every other store that has opened in the past, only announced after opening and that is fair.

[Harvey Specter]

One new store is not material. I also dont expect it to be a success unless someone buys a regional franchise from them as I dont see it being a success them going it alone.

[silverblizzard888]

Is it me or did the share price just come to life going from $1.26 to $1.60 now, looks like everyones waiting in anticipation for that store in may.

[whatsup]

Is it me or did the share price just come to life going from $1.26 to $1.60 now, looks like everyones waiting in anticipation for that store in may.

Looks like it after with the previous disappointment of last year, we do need full disclosure so that we can understand where we are .

[hogiela]

Looks like it after with the previous disappointment of last year, we do need full disclosure so that we can understand where we are .

It's really helped me in the tipping comp ... I've been waiting for the US boost :)


Glad I sold out of BFW at around $2.30 after buying in at the IPO a few years ago ... they haven't been very forthcoming with information and updates.

[mikeybycrikey]

The SP has risen quite a bit but there is never much volume so it doesn't take much more than one or two willing buyers to push it up.

[bucko]

First Permit issued for BF Dec 13th 2016 to start the refurb, last permit for the outside sign issued April 17th

https://www.buildzoom.com/property-info/6320-guilford-ave-indianapolis-in

any day now..

[tga_trader]

https://regionalhelpwanted.com/indianapolis/jobs-burgerfuel-store-staff-burgerfuel-indianapolis-in/121961123/
Amazing job ad, kinda makes me want to work there. Shame they haven't had the same rapport with shareholders for the last 12 months.
I'm so glad I sold out while things were high. I still love the company, (especially their burgers) but the lack of information / updates /forward progress didn't sit well with my investment position. Hopefully things get moving again once this store opens, and I could be tempted to hop back on the rollercoaster.

[silverblizzard888]

Looks like they are still in the progress of hiring staff in: general retail, shift managers and a marketing manager. Looks like that 1st May estimate was way off, I'm guess they will probably aim for 1st June now in time for reporting season.

https://www.burgerfuel.com/us/my-bf/careers

[silverblizzard888]

Looks like Burgerfuel are drumming up support for the Burgerfuel launch with this full on NZ fan base campaign.
https://www.burgerfuel.com/nz/my-bf/helloamerica?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Hello%20USA%20-%20Call%20to%20Action%20Campaign&utm_content=Hello%20USA%20-%20Call%20to%20Action%20Campaign+CID_2d0dc17bffa1b 6cecee387734171d6c2&utm_source=Demand%20%20Email%20marketing%20by%20Su pply&utm_term=Find%20out%20more%20HERE

Ends May, looks like they are going to be putting up videos and postcards in the US store. Seems the June launch is targeted.

[whatsup]

I cannot understand for the life of me why there is no Burgerfuels in Queenstown, Wanaka Dunedin or Nelson/Picton, the biggest tourist towns in the Sth Is , DUMB DUMB DUMB !

[silverblizzard888]

I cannot understand for the life of me why there is no Burgerfuels in Queenstown, Wanaka Dunedin or Nelson/Picton, the biggest tourist towns in the Sth Is , DUMB DUMB DUMB !

Cause Burgerfuel mostly only franchises their stores, they don't take an active approach and open it themselves, for them its too high of a capital risk and so they wait until there are interested franchisees approach them before a store is opened.

[hogiela]

I cannot understand for the life of me why there is no Burgerfuels in Queenstown, Wanaka Dunedin or Nelson/Picton, the biggest tourist towns in the Sth Is , DUMB DUMB DUMB !

They're waiting for a franchisee like yourself to open up these stores ;)

[whatsup]

I think that they have on certain occasions they have their own stores , Lincoln Rd Henderson is one and Im sure there are others, I may be wrong !

[silverblizzard888]

I think that they have on certain occasions they have their own stores , Lincoln Rd Henderson is one and Im sure there are others, I may be wrong !

In their last interim report they stated they had just purchased the Takapuna BurgerFuel store, which brings them up to 2 company owned stores, which I guess the other is the Henderson one. Theres none other.

[fungus pudding]

I cannot understand for the life of me why there is no Burgerfuels in Queenstown, Wanaka Dunedin or Nelson/Picton, the biggest tourist towns in the Sth Is , DUMB DUMB DUMB !

Not hard to understand why they wouldn't bother with Queenstown, the home of Fergburger.

[Hectorplains]

They don't pitch their sales at the tourist market. Where and how they advertise is targeted at local consumers.

[silverblizzard888]

This has to be some kind of record for longest period without an announcement, lol, no?

Haha getting close towards it! The last time this happened was at 23 December 2015 and no announcement till 14th June 2016. Think of the savings the company makes in not having spend time on a memo for us, though gets pretty lonely if your not a burgerfuel customer, their meal promotion deals make up for it though.

[whatsup]

They don't pitch their sales at the tourist market. Where and how they advertise is targeted at local consumers.

hect, tourists want to taste local delights when ever possible especially under 35 year olds.

[Hectorplains]

Haha getting close towards it! The last time this happened was at 23 December 2015 and no announcement till 14th June 2016. Think of the savings the company makes in not having spend time on a memo for us, though gets pretty lonely if your not a burgerfuel customer, their meal promotion deals make up for it though.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/05/kiwi-franchise-burgerfuel-takes-on-us-market.html

Here's a bit of company generated fluff, masquerading as a news story. Hopefully, it'll help tide you over to their next announcement.

[silverblizzard888]

Looks like the stores up and running and nearly ready to be opened. Burgerfuel is giving out 101 free burgers in their Indianapolis store to test out the store efficiencies.

"Today at 12 noon, yes today. We will be giving free BurgerFuel to the first 101 people that get down to the store. First in, first served. "

I think this is a very good stress test on the staff and not taking any chances of error on opening day.

"This is our 'Carb Day' (not as much alcohol) this is our chance to test the kitchen and see if the BurgerFuel engine room will break. Help us, help you, help us, help you."

[hogiela]

Looks like the stores up and running and nearly ready to be opened. Burgerfuel is giving out 101 free burgers in their Indianapolis store to test out the store efficiencies.

"Today at 12 noon, yes today. We will be giving free BurgerFuel to the first 101 people that get down to the store. First in, first served. "

I think this is a very good stress test on the staff and not taking any chances of error on opening day.

"This is our 'Carb Day' (not as much alcohol) this is our chance to test the kitchen and see if the BurgerFuel engine room will break. Help us, help you, help us, help you."


Hope all this effort and investment has been worth it ... it certainly didn't work well in Australia due to competition, and I fail to see how the US market is less competitive than Australia ...

[silverblizzard888]

Hope all this effort and investment has been worth it ... it certainly didn't work well in Australia due to competition, and I fail to see how the US market is less competitive than Australia ...

Yup if you watch this review about burgerfuel in Australia by a fairly popular youtuber who knows their food its not bad on the taste, though slaughtered on the price, which in the US would present a problem too if they price too high as there will be competitive prices everywhere for burgers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9H1hbK9NCE (Also the store looks ugly, hope the US store looks more like the NZ ones than this Australian one.

-also stale bun and no napkins! The small things really count Burgerfuel, the small things!

[bucko]

Some pictures of the outside of the store on here now:

http://www.burgerfuel.com/nz/hellousa

[silverblizzard888]

Some pictures of the outside of the store on here now:

http://www.burgerfuel.com/nz/hellousa

That rustic look of a retro brick exterior and neon sign looks alright in the day time, but much nicer at night. Certainly doesn't look as good as the NZ stores, but definitely better than the Aussie ones. Looks like they've attracted a decent crowd and seems theres some positive reviews too. So far good impression, its more the pricing that will test the crowds cause everything else seems like they are on their game.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/burgerfuel-indianapolis-4
https://www.yelp.com/biz/burgerfuel-indianapolis-2

[hogiela]

That rustic look of a retro brick exterior and neon sign looks alright in the day time, but much nicer at night. Certainly doesn't look as good as the NZ stores, but definitely better than the Aussie ones. Looks like they've attracted a decent crowd and seems theres some positive reviews too. So far good impression, its more the pricing that will test the crowds cause everything else seems like they are on their game.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/burgerfuel-indianapolis-4
https://www.yelp.com/biz/burgerfuel-indianapolis-2



Store is officially open now ... a bit late in the day for a market announcement but hopefully it's seen as positive :)

[Sideshow Bob]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11865675

[Baa_Baa]

Josef Robbers is certainly audacious taking on the USA, home of the hamburger. I'm not sure Burgerfuel (the burger, the brand, marketing, the image, the retail model, commercials etc) is good enough to succeed in the USA, but it's not his money anyway, is it. Good luck to holders.

[silverblizzard888]

Store is officially open now ... a bit late in the day for a market announcement but hopefully it's seen as positive :)

Its just a 'soft' opening, not quite officially opened yet, but I'm sure its not far off that.



Josef Robbers is certainly audacious taking on the USA, home of the hamburger. I'm not sure Burgerfuel (the burger, the brand, marketing, the image, the retail model, commercials etc) is good enough to succeed in the USA, but it's not his money anyway, is it. Good luck to holders.

Actually it majority is, considering Josef Roberts and Chris Mason have a joint shareholding of 71.62% that's a large part of their net worth on the line. Roberts has identified Indianapolis as less of a competitive burger market, so you never know it could do pretty well, they have certainly took the time to plan this out.

[minimoke]

I think this is a very good stress test on the staff and not taking any chances of error on opening day.
."[/B]
They aren't testing. If they are I'd be very worried - testing should be done before going to consumer. It's a $100 marketing ploy

[ratkin]

Josef Robbers is certainly audacious taking on the USA, home of the hamburger. I'm not sure Burgerfuel (the burger, the brand, marketing, the image, the retail model, commercials etc) is good enough to succeed in the USA, but it's not his money anyway, is it. Good luck to holders.

They will need to up the portion sizes.
Six chips and an undersized burger, all for 15 bucks just wont do

[Balance]

Its just a 'soft' opening, not quite officially opened yet, but I'm sure its not far off that.

Actually it majority is, considering Josef Roberts and Chris Mason have a joint shareholding of 71.62% that's a large part of their net worth on the line. Roberts has identified Indianapolis as less of a competitive burger market, so you never know it could do pretty well, they have certainly took the time to plan this out.

Let's wish them well. It will be great for NZ to have a home grown fast food company succeed in the States.

Skepticism and cynicism are to be expected given the failure of NZ companies when embarking on expansion overseas - Pumpkin Patch comes to mind immediately, Warehouse the next.

So matter of wait and see.

[hogiela]

Let's wish them well. It will be great for NZ to have a home grown fast food company succeed in the States.

Skepticism and cynicism are to be expected given the failure of NZ companies when embarking on expansion overseas - Pumpkin Patch comes to mind immediately, Warehouse the next.

So matter of wait and see.

So far they seem to be "stubborn" enough to make it work .... eventually .... hopefully once the US market is cranking they'll head back into Australia with an improved delivering ... still a very risky investment but would be nice to see a bit more volume traded on the market!

[silverblizzard888]

They aren't testing. If they are I'd be very worried - testing should be done before going to consumer. It's a $100 marketing ploy

Its actually pretty normal for restaurants to test our their stores by doing promotions on open because theres a lot of inefficiencies that aren't spotted until put to the sword of the public consumer and if the foods free can't exactly complain that much and that line outside the door waiting for free food definitely a good promo for them. They limited the amount of burgers serve that day and number of people that could enter. Some businesses can really mess up customer impression by being too busy first couple of weeks with new staff who haven't quite gotten their feet running on the ground yet and unsorted inefficiencies and then the months ahead be pretty empty. So its a very safe way Burgerfuel is treading. You gotta wonder why restaurants have such a high failure rate right? Normally a bunch of people who can cook tasty food but have low ability of management skills, unfortunately sometimes its both.


Let's wish them well. It will be great for NZ to have a home grown fast food company succeed in the States.

Skepticism and cynicism are to be expected given the failure of NZ companies when embarking on expansion overseas - Pumpkin Patch comes to mind immediately, Warehouse the next.

So matter of wait and see.

Yeah agreed NZ companies tend to get slaughtered overseas because of their huge pride in their products and on the back of success at home, but doing well in a sheeps barn isn't the same out in the wild. Even Xero put in a few wrong steps in North America, but have steadied themselves since. Its very important to understand markets overseas can be very different and understand what the consumer really wants. I think Burgerfuel did well in NZ and followed that up by going to the Middle East which NZ product has a good name there too, though they certainly got taught a lesson in Australia where NZ beef isn't anything special and got put to the sword by the Aussies for their pricing too. I think they have learnt some stuff from Aus and with a Franchise Brand director on board they have had time and advice on how to approach consumers in America, gotta be dramatic and gotta make a splash!

[Balance]

Yeah agreed NZ companies tend to get slaughtered overseas because of their huge pride in their products and on the back of success at home, but doing well in a sheeps barn isn't the same out in the wild. Even Xero put in a few wrong steps in North America, but have steadied themselves since. Its very important to understand markets overseas can be very different and understand what the consumer really wants. I think Burgerfuel did well in NZ and followed that up by going to the Middle East which NZ product has a good name there too, though they certainly got taught a lesson in Australia where NZ beef isn't anything special and got put to the sword by the Aussies for their pricing too. I think they have learnt some stuff from Aus and with a Franchise Brand director on board they have had time and advice on how to approach consumers in America, gotta be dramatic and gotta make a splash!

Indeed - better they do it slow and steady rather than with a big slash and lose their shirt.

BTW, I know of a NZer who copied the 'HELL' pizza concept to US and rebrabd as 'Lucifer' pizza. By all accounts, doing well!

[silverblizzard888]

Indeed - better they do it slow and steady rather than with a big slash and lose their shirt.

BTW, I know of a NZer who copied the 'HELL' pizza concept to US and rebrabd as 'Lucifer' pizza. By all accounts, doing well!

In Burgerfuel management you have a team of cautious managers watching each step they take, heck company has no debt and even sticks mostly to a franchising plan to hedge out risk. I like their creative marketing and brand build up, though I haven't found them faultless though:

I'd like to see more stand-alone stores going forward given they have a built brand in NZ and possibly owned by the company too.
I'd like to see meal package combos presented better to consumers (think KFC, McDonalds, Wendys, Carls Jr) thats how you really sell extra product.
I'd like to see a 'permanent' fish burger on the menu somewhere too.
I'd like better communications with shareholders, preferably quarterly.
I'd think packaging could be more refined, a lot of large bags for burgers and meal bags being used for small items. (Not sure if there are any cost advantages though it seems wasteful in a way.

Given Burgerfuel has identified they have a product that does well in low burger competitive markets and high value perception of NZ beef you'd think they should be opening in countries that follow the NZ and Middle East approach, why aren't countries in Asia on the map before AUS and US? They do say money is made doing business when and where no one else is.

NZ ideas can be great, though most just don't know how to sell. Usually expect consumers to like their product and throw money at them.

[silverblizzard888]

Article on the owner of Hungry Jacks in Aus, his take is go where the opportunity is!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11865555&ref=NZH_fb

[Raz]

In Burgerfuel management you have a team of cautious managers watching each step they take, heck company has no debt and even sticks mostly to a franchising plan to hedge out risk. I like their creative marketing and brand build up, though I haven't found them faultless though:

I'd like to see more stand-alone stores going forward given they have a built brand in NZ and possibly owned by the company too.
I'd like to see meal package combos presented better to consumers (think KFC, McDonalds, Wendys, Carls Jr) thats how you really sell extra product.
I'd like to see a 'permanent' fish burger on the menu somewhere too.
I'd like better communications with shareholders, preferably quarterly.
I'd think packaging could be more refined, a lot of large bags for burgers and meal bags being used for small items. (Not sure if there are any cost advantages though it seems wasteful in a way.

Given Burgerfuel has identified they have a product that does well in low burger competitive markets and high value perception of NZ beef you'd think they should be opening in countries that follow the NZ and Middle East approach, why aren't countries in Asia on the map before AUS and US? They do say money is made doing business when and where no one else is.

NZ ideas can be great, though most just don't know how to sell. Usually expect consumers to like their product and throw money at them.

You really need to know your market..a lot of micro-markets large enough in the US to make a NZ company a fortune yet no need to aim for a national presence.

[Sideshow Bob]

"The verdicts in....."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11870567

[whatsup]

In Burgerfuel management you have a team of cautious managers watching each step they take, heck company has no debt and even sticks mostly to a franchising plan to hedge out risk. I like their creative marketing and brand build up, though I haven't found them faultless though:

I'd like to see more stand-alone stores going forward given they have a built brand in NZ and possibly owned by the company too.
I'd like to see meal package combos presented better to consumers (think KFC, McDonalds, Wendys, Carls Jr) thats how you really sell extra product.
I'd like to see a 'permanent' fish burger on the menu somewhere too.
I'd like better communications with shareholders, preferably quarterly.
I'd think packaging could be more refined, a lot of large bags for burgers and meal bags being used for small items. (Not sure if there are any cost advantages though it seems wasteful in a way.

Given Burgerfuel has identified they have a product that does well in low burger competitive markets and high value perception of NZ beef you'd think they should be opening in countries that follow the NZ and Middle East approach, why aren't countries in Asia on the map before AUS and US? They do say money is made doing business when and where no one else is.

NZ ideas can be great, though most just don't know how to sell. Usually expect consumers to like their product and throw money at them.

Silver, PLUS a Queenstown, Wanaka, Picton, Dunedin, Franz Joseph, possible Te Anau presence even if it means company owned as apparently no franchisee wants to take on a franchise, I fail to see why there is no/minimal S Is presence as that's where the tourists/back packers head and love !!

[silverblizzard888]

Silver, PLUS a Queenstown, Wanaka, Picton, Dunedin, Franz Joseph, possible Te Anau presence even if it means company owned as apparently no franchisee wants to take on a franchise, I fail to see why there is no/minimal S Is presence as that's where the tourists/back packers head and love !!

I think Burgerfuel prefers to see itself as a local brand chasing after local customers and at a lower risk model. Tourist places can be rather risky as those places tend to be high in rent cost, low in staff availability and volatile due to fluctuation in tourist numbers. I think in the future they will establish it, but currently they don't have the capital to take the risk and prefer building up a loyal customer base locally so they have guaranteed repeat business.

[bucko]

Are they looking at an acquisition or launch of a new brand? I noticed several mentions in the announcement today referring to new opportunities within our outside of the Burgerfuel brand..

"The board will be considering all options for continued
expansion within the New Zealand Market, both inside and outside the
BurgerFuel brand."

[Harvey Specter]

Are they looking at an acquisition or launch of a new brand? I noticed several mentions in the announcement today referring to new opportunities within our outside of the Burgerfuel brand..

"The board will be considering all options for continued
expansion within the New Zealand Market, both inside and outside the
BurgerFuel brand."
No idea but if the US doesn't pay off, I would say any future global expansion is dead in the water. Therefore future growth has to come from NZ and there is only a limited number of stores before the market is saturated. However, introduce a new brand and they can utilise the Head Office and supply chain over more stores - Maybe a mexican franchise like Mexicali?

As an example, see what Restaurant Brands has done - 4 different franchise under one roof. (Though I am sure most investors would prefer if it was just KFC, the others not doing that great).

[Gambler]

The share price hasn`t really responded that great to the USA openning:t_down:. BFW has sadly failed to inform the market what their real vision is. They are obviously thinking about branching out but is it food, coffee or other hopsitality business? I am hoping the next announcemnet won`t be in December again and they will keep the market more infomed this year. Can the price stagnation be due to the low volume of shares available for trading? The daily trade volumes hardly ever go above 2-3k? I anticipate a share issue this year that will dillute shareholder holdings even more.

I`m close to break even price and when I bought I was planning to hold until 2021. I truly hope they have a sustainable business model and they will be around for a long time. I`ll monitor them closely for the next 12 months and if they don`t start providing more transparency I might bail out.

[Leftfield]

Good luck Gambler, BFW has been in a downtrend since June 2015, but as per the attached chart a positive 100/200 day MA 'golden' crossing may happen soon with a possible swing back into an uptrend. I suspect much depends not just on the opening of the first US store, but the market is waiting to see evidence that BFW can be profitable in the US.

You are right to review your investment regularly and be prepared to bail-out should BFW not deliver.

(Disc - I don't hold BFW, I think there are better prospects elsewhere.)

8922

[bucko]

After doing a quick google search I am quite optimistic on the first results from the US store, the reviews on Yelp and the article content all show good promise.

I think they have nailed the marketing there, every article talks about the sustainable practices of BF, grass fed beef?! In America?! WHaaaaaa

(Not much in article content but what can you expect from a single store opening in a city that size?)
http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/dining-blog/introducing-burger-fuel/
http://www.indystar.com/story/entertainment/2017/06/12/new-broad-ripple-restaurants/381959001/
https://nz.yelp.com/biz/burgerfuel-indianapolis-8

[Hectorplains]

Second US store to open April in Indianapolis - south of Broad Ripple.

[Food4Thought]

Wow, this share price sure has taken a beating. I hope that their ventures overseas go well. Keep those loyal customers loyal and don't be to stingy on the portion sizes. Love me a good burger

[JeremyALD]

I guess it's been 10 years, no dividends and very little profit growth.

They are always talking about expansion but how long till they start delivering profits? It would of been better for shareholders if they just focussed on NZ and reduced the size of their business.

[whatsup]

One has to wonder do the " need " that flash head office with all of the " fancy " overheads !!

[bartholemew]

Wow, BFW closed yesterday at 94 cents, the lowest it's ever traded. There doesn't appear to be many queued bids to push it up on today's open.

It seems a bit surprising that there hasn't been an official investor media release since 14th July - surely they'd at least want to brag about the performance of their new overseas stores?

[tga_trader]

It seems a bit surprising that there hasn't been an official investor media release since 14th July - surely they'd at least want to brag about the performance of their new overseas stores?
Not really much surprise. Up until the end of 2015 there was an announcement typically every month. After that, nothing. There was an occasional 'announcement' of no substance and I don't think it's coincidence the end of 2015 coincided with the start of the slide. Going without any news for upwards of 6 months it just seems that they were pushing too hard to try and force America to happen, and neglecting all else. Perhaps they didn't have enough/the right people in place to be able to focus everything on one area (which like you say doesn't appear to be going to well or we would've heard about it).

[JeremyALD]

Not a great result really, but at least a return to profit (albeit 60k).

The USA had a good start but has seen softening sales. The Middle East remains politically and economically difficult and Australia continues to be a very poor performer for the group. BFW NZ is really the only thing holding the ship together.

By the sounds of the announcement the Board may not continue with the US expansion. There's notes in the report about the costs of entry and time to build scale. They are also talking about diversification in New Zealand which makes me think they are looking at their global strategy.

Personally I think they need to make some hard calls and focus on where they are strong in New Zealand. They might need to lesson their global ambition. Its the only way I can see them having a successful future.

[whatsup]

Once again the need to open @ Queenstown, Dunedin and maybe Wanaka !! but definitely Queenstown, N Z # 1 tourist spot, no brainer imo.

[bucko]

Buying 1 store in Hamilton is buying a brand...could they not have just created a gourmet chicken brand themselves?

[fungus pudding]

Buying 1 store in Hamilton is buying a brand...could they not have just created a gourmet chicken brand themselves?

Probably, but this might be a very cheap entrance to that market with some IP behind it.

[hogie]

Probably, but this might be a very cheap entrance to that market with some IP behind it.

Been to winner winner ... very popular little place and they make great food ... hopefully Burger Fuel can help turn it into a success :)

[Yoda]

A couple of bigger trades in early January, and flattening out a bit and may pass the 30MA trend that has been a down trend. I wonder if with the big buys and flattening off we might see a rise again? ASB has a PE of 50 now . Wasn't it 500 as one point ? !

[mikeybycrikey]

Interesting announcement from BFW today. BFW have sold the Master Licence Agreement for the US, along with the Indianapolis store to company founder Chris Mason. Mason will resign from the board.

Still not sure about the likelihood of success in the US but this is an interesting development. Unsure what it will mean in the longer term. BFW do seem to have lost their way a little. Maybe this will help.

No mention of how much money (if any) changed hands though.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/315465

[whatsup]

Interesting announcement from BFW today. BFW have sold the Master Licence Agreement for the US, along with the Indianapolis store to company founder Chris Mason. Mason will resign from the board.

Still not sure about the likelihood of success in the US but this is an interesting development. Unsure what it will mean in the longer term. BFW do seem to have lost their way a little. Maybe this will help.

No mention of how much money (if any) changed hands though.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/315465

GONEBURGER , once the U S possible partner die that was the end of its U S dream, lost money with this dream, outski imo.

[silverblizzard888]

Not performing on all ends, Christ is probably frustrated by the conservative approach and in order to really get things back on track for both the company and the brand it was probably a good way to restructure.

[steveb]

looks like burger fuel are taking to the road,we just sold them some truss to support a sign for their mobile truck.They could be on a winner here.

disc not holding

[Hectorplains]

looks like burger fuel are taking to the road,we just sold them some truss to support a sign for their mobile truck.They could be on a winner here.

disc not holding

Still priced like it's a growth stock...

A mobile truck, eh. Yeah because they should, "Hit the road, Jack and don't you come back..." Time that Roberts took this thing private.

[silverblizzard888]

When a company runs itself like a hobbyist than a serious financial power house.

You would think 55 stores gives you good leverage to make profits. Whats the point doing so much work and not getting a financial return? Someone needs to knock some sense into these guys.
With their numbers they should be making 3-4 million profit a year at least!

Enough with these growth motives to be honest, they need to steady the ship, reward shareholders for being with them in this journey.
I'm afraid they get so caught up in running the business and happily being paid a salary they forgot the real money is building a profitable company.

The food truck is a more or less business as usual for them, they like to go all out on promoting the brand.

Annual report should be due sometime soon, lets see what it brings.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/330640

Looks like another stock is going to be leaving the NZX soon.

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/330640

Looks like another stock is going to be leaving the NZX soon.

Like the name of one of their proposed new concepts

Really cool

[Balance]

Like the name of one of their proposed new concepts

Really cool

I know some of the folks at Burger Fuel and they are actually an enthusiastic, passionate and creative bunch.

You should visit their HQ in Auckland and have a look see - they have a most interesting work environment complete with pinball machines and 'play' areas.

To their credit, they have taken one burger store and built the brand into a multi-faceted business spanning the width and breath of NZ as well as overseas.

The deal with Franchise Brands could have been their international making but unfortunately, it has not worked out.

So sadly, I think the company is going the same way as 42 Below, Charlies and Trilogy - another NZ company to be sold to an overseas buyer.

[MauroNZ]

This seems a good news:

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/f989b9df/burger-fuel-turns-to-profit-as-it-changes-direction.html

[Hectorplains]

This seems a good news:

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/f989b9df/burger-fuel-turns-to-profit-as-it-changes-direction.html

"...a full strategic options review of the business" or more simply, "we're still looking for a buyer."

The "transition" is adding another burger brand and a chicken takeaway ... more entrants offering no real point of difference in an already bloated market .... and an absence of any financial forward focus. Good news?

[hogie]

"...a full strategic options review of the business" or more simply, "we're still looking for a buyer."

The "transition" is adding another burger brand and a chicken takeaway ... more entrants offering no real point of difference in an already bloated market .... and an absence of any financial forward focus. Good news?


No good news for me ...

Overseas expansion to Australia = Fail
Overseas expansion into MiddleEast = Fail
Overseas expansion into USA = Fail
Expansion in NZ = Saturated

BurgerFuel is simply surviving and is looking for a buyer ... any investor might get lucky if they buy in at current levels if a cashed up overseas buyer can be found.

[whatsup]

No good news for me ...

Overseas expansion to Australia = Fail
Overseas expansion into MiddleEast = Fail
Overseas expansion into USA = Fail
Expansion in NZ = Saturated

BurgerFuel is simply surviving and is looking for a buyer ... any investor might get lucky if they buy in at current levels if a cashed up overseas buyer can be found.

What would they be buying, no presence at Queenstown or Wanaka, 2 of N Z biggests tourists spots !!

[Ggcc]

No good news for me ...

Overseas expansion to Australia = Fail
Overseas expansion into MiddleEast = Fail
Overseas expansion into USA = Fail
Expansion in NZ = Saturated

BurgerFuel is simply surviving and is looking for a buyer ... any investor might get lucky if they buy in at current levels if a cashed up overseas buyer can be found.

I have thought this from the beginning that they need a buyer. I never invested and people I knew who had invested mentioned, "big returns for the future, you can't lose in the food game". How I love people who have never been in the food game mentioning how profitable it is.....It can be profitable if run properly.

[Balance]

I have thought this from the beginning that they need a buyer. I never invested and people I knew who had invested mentioned, "big returns for the future, you can't lose in the food game". How I love people who have never been in the food game mentioning how profitable it is.....It can be profitable if run properly.

I know of a few investors (including Milford) who invested and rode this thing all the way to over $3.00 at one stage, over 2014 & 2015.

Some got out while a few stayed.

[fungus pudding]

What would they be buying, no presence at Queenstown or Wanaka, 2 of N Z biggests tourists spots !!

You'd have to be game to take on Fergburger at Queenstown. That's a tourist attraction in itself, just to see the length of the never-ending queue.

[Balance]

You'd have to be game to take on Fergburger at Queenstown. That's a tourist attraction in itself, just to see the length of the never-ending queue.

Does not stop other burger chains (Burger King, MacDonalds etc) from operating in Queenstown?

Rents in Queenstown are astronomical and there are probably better opportunities elsewhere for a Burger Fuel!

[fungus pudding]

Does not stop other burger chains (Burger King, MacDonalds etc) from operating in Queenstown?

Rents in Queenstown are astronomical and there are probably better opportunities elsewhere for a Burger Fuel!

No it doesn't stop competition, but it sure makes it tough for them to even look successful.

[Balance]

No it doesn't stop competition, but it sure makes it tough for them to even look successful.

McDonalds in the O'Connells Centre is always busy and around dinner time, there's usually a long long queue as well except that the McDonalds efficient operating system clears the queue fairly quickly.

[Rowdy Flat]

Seems an update on their US operations is overdue! Their half year result announcement (11/19, the only subsequent ann has been them leaving Iraq) stated, "BurgerFuel USA: Chris Mason (BurgerFuel Licensee in the USA), continues to operate the single store in Broad Ripple, Indianapolis, Indiana. We have not been advised of any proposed or further development plans for the USA." Well hello! It appears a "further development" is them joining the "ghost kitchen" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_kitchen) trend. The Kitopi company (https://www.kitopi.com) will be opening in Manhattan and Burgerfuel are one of the companies whose food they will be selling (https://www.connect.media/lee-nyc-brings-ghost-kitchen-to-houston-street.) Another black mark in this company's record of communication.

[ratkin]

For me they failed the customer test. Do not like buying stocks where my own experience with the product is not good. Overpriced food, hardly any chips and a rude assistant on my first and only visit to a burger fuel.

[Snoopy]

For me they failed the customer test. Do not like buying stocks where my own experience with the product is not good. Overpriced food, hardly any chips and a rude assistant on my first and only visit to a burger fuel.

Ratkin, I wonder if you are in the 'target customer group' for Burgerfuel? I say this because I have been a Restaurant Brands shareholder for many years. Yet apart from cashing in my annual shareholder voucher I would probably average one visit per year to any of 'my' Restaurant brands outlets. This is because I just don't have many what I call 'lower end' takeaway meals. I think I had fish and chips once last year for example. So my question as a shareholder is always.

"Is the target market being satisfied?"

Rather than

"Am I satisfied?"

As far as Burger fuel goes, they have positioned themselves as a mid market offering. Yes they are more expensive than the likes of McDonalds. They are probably more expensive than your local 'burger bar' too. And probably they would give you less chips than your local burger bar. But if this is how you are judging BurgerFuel, I think you are missing the point.

Try going into a pub and ordering a burger meal and a drink. I bet you would spend more than doing the same at BurgerFuel. And I suspect the burger you bought at the pub would not have been as interesting either. IMO BurgerFuel are servicing the niche they aim to please - which is not everyone all the time - well.

I go to Burgerfuel probably two to three times per year. The quality of the burgers are IMO a cut above even the top line offerings at McDonalds and Burger King. They have usually been busy, but rudeness has never been on the menu when I was there. There is no excuse for rudeness in a customer service industry of course. So I wonder if your experience was more a 'one off' experience down to a particular employee on the day rather than something embedded in company culture?

SNOOPY

discl: not a Burgerfuel shareholder, but a satisfied customer

[Mr Slothbear]

I believe I’m very squarely in the middle of Burgerfuels target market demographically.I am not a shareholder but I adore their burgers.

Their burgers are certainly a step above almost all others excluding ferg burger.

they are expensive, I will only buy when they email me a decent voucher for buy one get one free. When this does happen I make very good use of them.

both burgers and beers and Velvet burger do a 2 for 1 every tuesday so if burgerfuel has no good offers then fergburger would be my place of choice.

to give some comparison I live a one minute walk from burger wisconsin, their burgers are decent, not quite as good as burgerfuel but their prices are much higher, probably because of the suburb I’m in.

When I was younger I used to have mcdonalds perhaps an average of once per month but now only have it as a very last resort like in an airport. I don’t eat kfc or burgerking ever.


Geez its a tough market out there. Part of the reason I wouldn’t invest.

[silverblizzard888]

The problems here can be summed up by watching the Mcdonalds movie and the current founders are acting like the Mcdonald Brothers. Burgerfuel needs a Ray Kroc to come in with a profit making strategy.

[Rowdy Flat]

The problems here can be summed up by watching the Mcdonalds movie and the current founders are acting like the Mcdonald Brothers. Burgerfuel needs a Ray Kroc to come in with a profit making strategy.

Agreed. EPS is pathetic - profit for the last half down to $500k. Management salaries on the other hand...

I can't understand why this sits on a PE (historical) of 25?

[Sideshow Bob]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/355416

Prelim FY results.

Outlook ok key section - looking at all options - sale, JV, partnerships, merger etc etc etc

[JeremyALD]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/355416

Prelim FY results.

Outlook ok key section - looking at all options - sale, JV, partnerships, merger etc etc etc

They said that over 6 months ago with zero updates. They can't even put a slideshow together on their strategy.

Overall it was a pretty grim read in my view. Limited (if any) growth in NZ, dead brand in the US and dying brand in UAE.

[IAK]

They said that over 6 months ago with zero updates. They can't even put a slideshow together on their strategy.

Overall it was a pretty grim read in my view. Limited (if any) growth in NZ, dead brand in the US and dying brand in UAE.
Hope they don't go under, best burgers and fries in NZ. Disclaimer never been to fergburgers.

[Rep]

Hope they don't go under, best burgers and fries in NZ. Disclaimer never been to fergburgers.

Even if they make the best burgers and fries that still doesn’t make them immune to the reality that they need to make a decent return. The IPO prospectus was full of hype (benchmarking themselves as having aspirations to being a world leading QSR brand) and thin on forecasts.

The governance over the years being lacklustre and lots of touting of overseas expansion: Australia (nah didn’t work), Mid East (ok for a while but not really) and then into the USA where they have drowned in a sea of mid market offerings after their onshore partner decided to do something else.

They might do okay during the recession - so long as they manage the balance between value and profitability - but for a long time their credibility around expansion prospects into other markets looks a bit like their prospectus - glossy, colourful and lacking substance.

Happy to be proved wrong but a lot of funds have been tossed at chasing rainbows to date.

[tga_trader]

They said that over 6 months ago with zero updates. They can't even put a slideshow together on their strategy.

Overall it was a pretty grim read in my view. Limited (if any) growth in NZ, dead brand in the US and dying brand in UAE.
Yeah I sold out years ago when the updates went from monthly, to nothing for 6 months. The US expansion was worth exploring but it was obvious LONG ago that it wasn't worth the time and effort they were dumping into it. It is extremely unfortunate that instability in the middle east was completely beyond their control but had a massive impact on the business their.

Hope they don't go under, best burgers and fries in NZ. Disclaimer never been to fergburgers.
Dittto. I love the food, and every store I've been to the staff are always top notch, which was why I bought shares in the first place. Just terrible upper management unfortunately.

[fungus pudding]

Hope they don't go under, best burgers and fries in NZ. Disclaimer never been to fergburgers.

Fergburgers are by far the best - if you can be bothered queuing for up to an hour for a burger. However, with Queenstown suffering from lack of tourists, the wait could be down a bit.

[Sideshow Bob]

Fergburgers are by far the best - if you can be bothered queuing for up to an hour for a burger. However, with Queenstown suffering from lack of tourists, the wait could be down a bit.

I heard under 10 minutes......

[NZGohan]

Fergburgers are by far the best - if you can be bothered queuing for up to an hour for a burger. However, with Queenstown suffering from lack of tourists, the wait could be down a bit.

If you are ordering at Fergs dont wait in line, just give them a call and order on the phone, then go pick it up in about 15minutes when its ready.

[Entrep]

Re Fergburger - with enough effort, how hard is it to make/copy a good burger - really?

[IAK]

Even if they make the best burgers and fries that still doesn’t make them immune to the reality that they need to make a decent return. The IPO prospectus was full of hype (benchmarking themselves as having aspirations to being a world leading QSR brand) and thin on forecasts.

The governance over the years being lacklustre and lots of touting of overseas expansion: Australia (nah didn’t work), Mid East (ok for a while but not really) and then into the USA where they have drowned in a sea of mid market offerings after their onshore partner decided to do something else.

They might do okay during the recession - so long as they manage the balance between value and profitability - but for a long time their credibility around expansion prospects into other markets looks a bit like their prospectus - glossy, colourful and lacking substance.

Happy to be proved wrong but a lot of funds have been tossed at chasing rainbows to date.

Totally agree. However, since lockdown I've been to Burgerking, Wendy's & KFC - soggy burgers, cold fries, and flat soft drinks, a waste of time and money. Even pre-Lockdown the quality of food at these big chains was inconsistent. I only eat junk food occassionally, once every couple of weeks, so when I do I want it has to be worth it. The food at Burgerfuel is always great and with my local gym membership I get free fries with every burger, so pretty good value. Just my 2 cents worth.

Entrep - maybe Burgerfuel should buy out Fergburgers (might be going cheap) and sell those too?

Disc. Not holding.

[madmat]

Ferg burger is average, its good but not "The Best". Orders are 5mins the last couple of weeks. I'll be skipping them when im in Qtown next week. Ferg Baker is good for morning coffee tho.

[Sideshow Bob]

Re Fergburger - with enough effort, how hard is it to make/copy a good burger - really?

Absolutely - it's not that hard! But also one of those things which is famous for being famous....ie a must do/haven't been to Qtown unless you've had a Ferg burger. All those people can't be wrong!

They've resisted all (geographic) expansion and gone for expand into Fergbaker, Mrs Ferg etc.

[Indy kiwi]

It's amazing to me that BF still only have one restaurant in the US. And it's closed. Pretty much every other restaurant is open, even if only for takeout, but not BF. Closed. Still. Drove past it again on Sunday. Still closed. A pity since I love the food and cool to have a little piece of kiwi here in the American midwest, but I can't imagine that restaurant is profitable.

[fungus pudding]

If you are ordering at Fergs dont wait in line, just give them a call and order on the phone, then go pick it up in about 15minutes when its ready.

Also they take have a staff member wandering the queue who will take your order and give you a pick up time. Then Mrs. better half can take you shopping till pick-up time. Not the cheapest way.

[Rep]

It's amazing to me that BF still only have one restaurant in the US. And it's closed. Pretty much every other restaurant is open, even if only for takeout, but not BF. Closed. Still. Drove past it again on Sunday. Still closed. A pity since I love the food and cool to have a little piece of kiwi here in the American midwest, but I can't imagine that restaurant is profitable.

Apparently Chris Mason who owns the store still owed BFG in September for the final instalment of the purchase price for acquiring the store which was due March 2020. Chris was the founder of Burger Fuel and I think still owns over 10% of BFG stock - if it isn't open by now then you have to wonder if BFG will ever see their debt repaid or whether it will ever open its doors again.

[Rep]

Update - The Indianapolis Store is closed permanently.

BFG has bought back shares off a related company of Chris Mason for no cash consideration to settle the outstanding and overdue debt and cancelled the US master franchise. The deal was done at 39c per share.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Annual result: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/373147

$0.7m net profit.

Reiterates policy of no use of 3rd party delivery networks. I really don’t understand the reasoning here and would like them to show the figures. The stores are losing a huge amount of business by not enabling this, it really doesn’t make any logical sense to not do it.

Edit to add: I absolutely LOVE the Winner Winner chicken - so amazingly good.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Got this response from investor relations regarding the issue of not using delivery services:Regarding delivery, BurgerFuel has chosen not to Regarding delivery, BurgerFuel has chosen not to partner with delivery aggregator companies for a number of reasons. One is due to the extremely high commission fee they charge. Our priority is protecting our franchisee's profit margins.

Another is that BurgerFuel's instore environment differentiates us from competitors and we believe our food is best enjoyed in store, hot off the grill. With delivery companies, the product can arrive sub-standard with regards to product presentation and freshness (i.e luke warm) and the onus is still on the restaurant from the customers perspective, as opposed to the delivery platform. Delivery drivers can create traffic and congestion in store that can impact on our speed of service and general atmosphere. There are other cons, such as a loss of communication to our end customer also.
​

We have just released a new burger box, which means our burgers now travel exceptionally well, remain hot and look great if you cannot get stuck into one straight away - however, I cannot confirm if launching our own delivery service is in our future. What I can tell you, is that it would be a more likely scenario than partnering with a delivery platform like Uber Eats! :)

[JeremyALD]

Delete see below

[JeremyALD]

BFG surely has to be one of the most disappointing listings on the NZX.

They clearly do not care about shareholders. They virtually never give updates on their business or strategy, ​and have never attempted, or even considered paying a dividend.

They failed to grow overseas, and frankly now appear to have given up. How many times have they talked about growing, or becoming more profitable? They haven't done either in years.

It amazes me how the leading premium burger joint in New Zealand, with 87 stores, has never made a profit over $1.5m. Costing around $25 to get a burger, drink and fries you would think they will be pulling in decent margins.

[silverblizzard888]

BFG surely has to be one of the most disappointing listings on the NZX.

They clearly do not care about shareholders. They virtually never give updates on their business or strategy, ​and have never attempted, or even considered paying a dividend.

They failed to grow overseas, and frankly now appear to have given up. How many times have they talked about growing, or becoming more profitable? They haven't done either in years.

It amazes me how the leading premium burger joint in New Zealand, with 87 stores, has never made a profit over $1.5m. Costing around $25 to get a burger, drink and fries you would think they will be pulling in decent margins.

Its all summed up in this Mcdonalds movie scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxCL2RqCuiY

It might as well say " Burgerfuel if you're not making money hand over fist somethings wrong" I certainly believe something is wrong and a page from Mcdonalds would help a lot. A franchise as successful as Burgerfuel doesn't own any real estate for a standalone store surprises me to the worlds end, what are these guys doing. At this rate they might as well get me to run their business.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

BFG surely has to be one of the most disappointing listings on the NZX.

They clearly do not care about shareholders. They virtually never give updates on their business or strategy, ​and have never attempted, or even considered paying a dividend.

They failed to grow overseas, and frankly now appear to have given up. How many times have they talked about growing, or becoming more profitable? They haven't done either in years.

It amazes me how the leading premium burger joint in New Zealand, with 87 stores, has never made a profit over $1.5m. Costing around $25 to get a burger, drink and fries you would think they will be pulling in decent margins.

They only own a few of those 87 stores, the rest are franchised for which they receive 4% of sales if I recall correctly. They have pivoted somewhat from attempting to expand burgerfuel internationally, to instead expanding into multiple brands in the local market with their new offerings “Winner Winner” (chicken restaurants) and the fast service “Shake Out” burger stores.

I actually really like the winner winner product.

But yes can’t disagree with the fact it must have been a very disappointing investment for long term shareholders. However it’s so dirt cheap now one would think there is a potential for a large rebound if there is even just small growth in business.

[mikelee]

there are far cheaper (under-valued) shares out there with less chance of going belly up I reckon :rolleyes:

[LaserEyeKiwi]

there are far cheaper (under-valued) shares out there with less chance of going belly up I reckon :rolleyes:

you won’t find much “cheaper” from a market capitalization perspective that is actually a going concern still generating cash. It has a market cap of only $19 million, and a cash position of $7 million dollars, meaning an ex-cash enterprise value of only $12 million.

So being able to generate a $0.74 million net profit in a year where restaurants were closed by lockdowns for between 1.5-2 months, it seems on the face of it that the company is being valued extremely cheap.

I think it’s far more likely to be delisted by way of a management buyout.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

Restaurant Brands just reported a sales increase of 14% in same store sales for the 2nd quarter in NZ on a year over year basis.

hopefully BFG sees the same sort of result.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

AGM was fairly uneventful (although I missed some of the opening remarks due to zoom audio fail on my end).

expecting tepid/no growth over next few years.

[FTG]

AGM was fairly uneventful (although I missed some of the opening remarks due to zoom audio fail on my end).

expecting tepid/no growth over next few years.

So do you think it's still a hold, until a MBO or similar?

[LaserEyeKiwi]

So do you think it's still a hold, until a MBO or similar?

they did flag acquisitions, buybacks as possibilities (but ruled out dividends). Someone asked them if they considered buying Hells pizza, and they said it comes up from time to time as a possibility along with many other options.

[Balance]

they did flag acquisitions, buybacks as possibilities (but ruled out dividends). Someone asked them if they considered buying Hells pizza, and they said it comes up from time to time as a possibility along with many other options.

They have been trying to find a buyer and now they are going to turn buyer?

Pull the other leg!

[LaserEyeKiwi]

They have been trying to find a buyer and now they are going to turn buyer?

Pull the other leg!

they do have plenty of cash, so plenty of optionality there. They have launched two new brands recently: Winner, Winner (Chicken) and Shake Out (fast service)

they actually mentioned they wanted to delist from NZX, but got feedback from NZX saying that would not really be possible without a takeover or significant transaction, so that plan is off.

[Balance]

they do have plenty of cash, so plenty of optionality there.

they actually mentioned they wanted to delist from NZX, but got feedback from NZX saying that would not really be possible without a takeover or significant transaction, so that plan is off.

SeaDragon successfully decamped to Unlisted.

[LaserEyeKiwi]

I actually quite liked the zoom AGM format, got to ask a question.

[FTG]

they did flag acquisitions, buybacks as possibilities (but ruled out dividends). Someone asked them if they considered buying Hells pizza, and they said it comes up from time to time as a possibility along with many other options.

Thanks LEK.
It seems they haven't been truly super motivated to "restructure". Especially whilst the main S/Holder has access to the cashflow through very generous remuneration etc.

Quite possibly another example of a minnow that shouldn't have listed on the NZX in the first place. Admin costs & compliance have continued to be restrictive & prohibitive for such a small Co.

BOD & main S/H's ego's would have got a good boost at the time of listing though:cool: