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AMR
13-07-2007, 09:31 PM
I'm quite keen to buy in at the moment but I'm worried about what seems to be a slowdown in the housing market according to the latest figures. Also, I'm a bit concerned that I'm buying at the end of a cycle since we've had 4-5 years of very good economic growth.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

Snow Leopard
13-07-2007, 10:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by xxamr_corpxx

I'm quite keen to buy in at the moment but I'm worried about what seems to be a slowdown in the housing market according to the latest figures. Also, I'm a bit concerned that I'm buying at the end of a cycle since we've had 4-5 years of very good economic growth.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks.


4x

You must first resolve the battle within yourself to achieve unity of body, mind and soul.
Then, and only then, will you be able to see the one true way of the sharebuyer.
You must meditate deeply on each and every one of your emotions and determine its' seed. From there you should seek the truth from the sower of that seed, questioning them as to whether they are your friend or your foe and learn how you may use this knowledge to lead you forward.
Once you have triumphed in this quest then you will know whether to buy WBC or remain still.

Lob Sang Paper Tiger

kura
14-07-2007, 12:45 PM
Gee Paper Tiger, I'm impressed, I suspect you have missed out on your true vocation in life !

Silly old me thought a reply would include a comparative PER analysis of the main banks, but Mr 4X did ask for "any advice"

Snow Leopard
14-07-2007, 03:44 PM
I can do that as well.

There are three banks listed on the main board of NZSX, but NAB never trades so that leaves ANZ and WBC
The only significant difference between the two is that ANZ's favourite colour is Blue and Westpacs' is Red. Otherwise they trade on about the same P/E and have near identical forward P/Es, similar dividend yields etc.

So pick your favourite colour.

If you want more colour choice then look at to ASX.

baxter
14-07-2007, 04:34 PM
I am also most impressed Paper Tiger after years of indecision and finally timidly taking the plunge. As for Westpac I've been with them since they took over trustbank, I ditched half when they shifted from NZ to Aust. They promptly rose by about 40% to where they are today.I don't know the stats but they have been a rewarding share to hold despite the lack of imputation credits. I can't foretell the future but I am holding on to the remainder of mine...I bank with TSB.

AMR
14-07-2007, 05:48 PM
A question for Baxter -

According to my research from ASB securities WBC shares gives fully franked dividends. What do you mean when you say they lack imputation credits?

Thanks

777
14-07-2007, 06:13 PM
xxamr corpxx the franking is only available to Australian tax payers and not NZ tax payers. Imputation on NZ shares is all that is available to NZ residents.

zyreon
14-07-2007, 06:19 PM
westpac has good shareholder perks e.g. +/- bps on term investments/loans, fee waivers etc

banks can provide good returns, high ROE re the low use of capital, new BIS rules on capad mean smart banks will get to use less capital too.

both ANZ & WBC have DRIP

cantab
17-08-2007, 10:34 PM
Gail Kelly boss of SGB to replace the retiring David Morgan next year. Gail has a good track record at SGB.

cantab
18-08-2007, 10:26 AM
Picture of Gail in today's Press, very smart!

UBS say "We view this as a positive appointment for Westpac given Gail's track record at St George."

UBS raised Westpac to its best buy in the bank sector after her appointment.

Last month JBWere upgraded Westpac to "BUY" saying "WBC trades at a significant discount to peers despite market share gains and improving momentum across the bank".

foodee
12-05-2008, 12:24 PM
Westpac in trading halt re-merger.
Not a lot of interest here.

winner69
20-01-2009, 04:56 PM
Bit of an embarrasement having a share placement to retail investors and the share price falls below the offer price

So $16 was a discount for institutional investors ... they jumped at it .... and now under water

How many retail people will take it up i wonder

dragonz
20-01-2009, 06:07 PM
Well I've just thrown my offer in the rubbish bin.

The price set for the placement is either the ' average of the last 5 trading days of Jan' or $16. Whichever is the lowest.

POSSUM THE CAT
20-01-2009, 06:24 PM
Winner could be a very good buy as you do not have to decide untill late on the 29/1/2009 if you have Australian bank accounts and pay by B.PAY

POSSUM THE CAT
30-01-2009, 01:23 PM
Winner or Dragonz any estimates on issue price my guess $14.98

OldRider
04-07-2009, 11:38 AM
The WBC dividend advice statement arrived in the mail today, as I entered the data my attention was drawn to the following trivia:

Initial purchase was made on 12 October 1999, I think this was the IPO for the float of the New Zealand Company, over the 10 years since that time, the dividends received have more than paid for the initial purchase, the investment value has doubled, IRR over this period of 16.96%, beats giving them the money on term deposit.

ENP
06-04-2010, 09:37 AM
Who would buy into this at such a high price. The news today said they had a positive profit as opposed to the loss of last year, but at a PE of 21+ why would you buy this?

I'm not saying I know anything about investing in WBC but I'm just curious as to why people would still be buying at such a high price.

macduffy
06-04-2010, 11:31 AM
The short answer is that sharemarkets look ahead, not backwards. The market clearly expects better results from WBC.

The long answer includes the care needed in interpreting P/E's. Is it based on historical annual earnings? or interim earnings annualised? or some analyst's forecast earnings? or a consensus of analysts? etc.

Tee
08-05-2010, 07:45 PM
It's price has dropped every day of the past week (as far as I can remember), and I bought some on Friday afternoon.

peat
09-05-2010, 07:00 AM
a review of the first half profit announcement here

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Westpac-WBC-St-George-Gail-Kelly-Australia-pd20100505-563HC?OpenDocument&src=kgb

when the result is deconstructed it is apparent that the growth in profit was driven almost entirely by a dramatic fall in impairment charges, from $1.61 billion last year to $879 million in the latest March half...

...Thus the result might suggest that Westpac is generating super profits but unless there is some fundamental change in either the structure of its balance sheet or the context for retail banking it is improbable that super profitability can be maintained once the rate of decline in impairment charges flattens.

ENP
09-05-2010, 08:20 AM
Quote from Monopoly...

The bank never goes broke. Investing in a business that cannot go broke? YES PLEASE!

POSSUM THE CAT
09-05-2010, 11:47 AM
ENP WBC will fluctuate according to the Trading on the ASX & the exchange rate. NZ$ to A$

karen1
18-07-2010, 07:28 AM
Quote from Monopoly...

The bank never goes broke. Investing in a business that cannot go broke? YES PLEASE!

Wonder if your thoughts still hold true, ENP? This link from the Herald this morning: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/3929798/Huge-losses-for-Westpac-in-project-crash

Should we be worried?

macduffy
18-07-2010, 08:22 AM
All banks make some bad loans but I doubt that this will rank in the top half dozen for Westpac, as a Group, in current conditions.

It's well provisioned for continuing losses in its commercial lending portfolio. Total group assets are $600 billion with Shareholders' funds of $38 billion.

Disc: Holding WBC. Not top of my concerns.

karen1
18-07-2010, 04:51 PM
All banks make some bad loans but I doubt that this will rank in the top half dozen for Westpac, as a Group, in current conditions.

It's well provisioned for continuing losses in its commercial lending portfolio. Total group assets are $600 billion with Shareholders' funds of $38 billion.

Disc: Holding WBC. Not top of my concerns.

Thanks for the response. It assuages the concerns somewhat. I wonder if I'll ever stop being a newbie....

percy
18-07-2010, 06:11 PM
Thanks for the response. It assuages the concerns somewhat. I wonder if I'll ever stop being a newbie....

Don't worry Karen1 we are all newbies here.Only trouble is some of us are very long in the tooth newbies.
The amount of money Westpac lost here reads a lot but it is only a small % of Westpacs capital.

karen1
19-07-2010, 02:50 PM
[QUOTE=percy;312151]Don't worry Karen1 we are all newbies here.Only trouble is some of us are very long in the tooth newbies.

And thanks to you, Percy. I am heading into the above category, having parted ways with my broker a few years ago, so now I stumble along and hope I'm going in the right direction. Time will tell, I guess. Must say I enjoy reading various postings here.

percy
19-07-2010, 04:18 PM
[QUOTE=percy;312151]Don't worry Karen1 we are all newbies here.Only trouble is some of us are very long in the tooth newbies.

And thanks to you, Percy. I am heading into the above category, having parted ways with my broker a few years ago, so now I stumble along and hope I'm going in the right direction. Time will tell, I guess. Must say I enjoy reading various postings here.

Karen.I have recieved excellent advice on sharetrader.Trust your own judgement and do not be afraid to ask here.

karen1
20-07-2010, 09:12 PM
Thank you for your reply Percy. As I am soon to have a lot of extra time on my hands, I will be browsing this site more regularly, and may indeed be back to ask more questions.

Snoopy
24-03-2021, 09:58 PM
There are three banks listed on the main board of NZSX, but NAB never trades so that leaves ANZ and WBC
The only significant difference between the two is that ANZ's favourite colour is Blue and Westpacs' is Red. Otherwise they trade on about the same P/E and have near identical forward P/Es, similar dividend yields etc.

So pick your favourite colour.


That post was from thirteen years ago. From today's events, it does look like the answer should have been 'Blue' - or maybe 'Heartland' ;-)

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WBC/369670/343017.pdf

I did some bank buying myself last year and considered Heartland was the better option. No regrets with that decision so far, even though 'in theory' Heartland is a dodgier bank by credit rating. I had considered topping up with WBC (one of my smaller holdings) at the same time, but i did not like what I saw. We had the 'fees for no service' and 'funding pedophile' scandals in Australia last year. That cost both the Westpac CEO and Chairman their jobs. Just recently WBC combined their 'consumer' and 'business' divisions in Australia which smacked of desperate cost cutting to me. Now they are looking at unloading their NZ arm (the news articles said 'sale' but the press release said 'demerge'). NZ used to be their golden goose! They were publicly shamed in NZ by the Reserve Bank for having insufficient capital and not following their own risk procedures today. Was that 'golden goose' laying eggs of 'fools gold'?

So many Westpac branches have closed over the last couple of years, it is difficult to get personal service outside the main centres. I was stuck on the Kapiti coast during the level 4 lock-down and had to travel 30km to my nearest open branch. Westpac consistently rate as the lowest of the big four banks in NZ on net promoter score for consumers. For businesses they rate a little better I believe, and of course they have the government banking contracts. But I do wonder if all the NZ cost cutting was window dressing the NZ operation up for sale all along. They used to claim NZ was their laboratory for trying out new things that if they worked would be fed into the Australian operation. Will a break up of the remaining assets in Australia be next? Westpac has a proud 200 year history in Australia - I think they are the oldest listed business on the ASX. Yet no company lasts forever. You have to wonder with all the Australian government fines, sales of 'superfluous' business units (like Pendal group) and constant restructuring of what is left, whether the Westpac brand has finally run out of puff and is too toxic to continue.

SNOOPY

dabsman
25-03-2021, 05:40 AM
I bought big on WBC over the last 12 months so I'm happy where it is sitting price wise. How does a demerger play out for a holder? Do we get to choose to keep WBC Australia or convert holding to new WBC NZ bank shares? Do I shunt my WBC shares now? One good thing about demerging would be getting rid of franking credits and getting imputation credits 😊

winner69
25-03-2021, 05:53 AM
I bought big on WBC over the last 12 months so I'm happy where it is sitting price wise. How does a demerger play out for a holder? Do we get to choose to keep WBC Australia or convert holding to new WBC NZ bank shares? Do I shunt my WBC shares now? One good thing about demerging would be getting rid of franking credits and getting imputation credits ��

If a normal sort of demerger you’ll end up with shares in both WBCAu and WBCNZ ....cool eh

Some guru will work out WBCNZ capital structure and come up with a share price to list at

Bjauck
25-03-2021, 06:06 AM
I bought big on WBC over the last 12 months so I'm happy where it is sitting price wise. How does a demerger play out for a holder? Do we get to choose to keep WBC Australia or convert holding to new WBC NZ bank shares? Do I shunt my WBC shares now? One good thing about demerging would be getting rid of franking credits and getting imputation credits 

Holding shares on the NZ register will make no difference as the company will treat all shareholders the same. The same NZ imputation credits are given to Australian register and Australian residents as for those in NZ. I think any demerger will be done according to Australian rules to maximise the benefit to the majority Australian shareholders with scant regard to NZ resident shareholders.

winner69
25-03-2021, 06:11 AM
Holding shares on the NZ register will make no difference as the company will treat all shareholders the same. The same NZ imputation credits are given to Australian register and Australian residents as for those in NZ. I think any demerger will be done to maximise the benefit to the majority Australian shareholders with scant regard to NZ resident shareholders.

And not many Aussies would want to be long term holders of NZ bank

Bjauck
25-03-2021, 06:26 AM
And not many Aussies would want to be long term holders of NZ bank No. I think they may go for a sale by way of institutional and public offer in NZ rather than an issue to existing WBC shareholders.

After the reform to residential property investment, there may be more investor funds looking for a home too.

dabsman
25-03-2021, 07:03 AM
Interesting times. Amazing how much I missed reading people's thoughts with this becoming news. Also OCA announcements with the raise. I naturally came straight here for a bit of confirmation bias haha

macduffy
25-03-2021, 09:20 AM
Very early days. This may be nothing more than a ploy to see what interest there is in a spin-off; a sale - who might be interested? - or a response to the RBNZ's moves. I am reminded of ANZ's purported reason for buying out minority interests in ANZ (NZ) several years ago - the bigger entity being able to fund itself cheaper than multiple smaller banks.

mikelee
25-03-2021, 12:21 PM
I remember reading somewhere that Westpac was actually the first company to be registered in Australia!

macduffy
25-03-2021, 12:25 PM
I remember reading somewhere that Westpac was actually the first company to be registered in Australia!

Yes, the old Bank of New South Wales.

bottomfeeder
26-03-2021, 10:30 AM
WBC posturing will see them lose the Government Account. I believe they think they are such a large company, and little old NZ can be pushed around to change their requirement for extra capital. SP already retreating.

macduffy
26-03-2021, 10:38 AM
SP already retreating.

Let's see what happens when the ASX opens.

bottomfeeder
26-03-2021, 11:20 AM
Let's see what happens when the ASX opens.

Yep Aussies applaud WBC pushing the RBNZ around.

Baa_Baa
26-03-2021, 11:48 AM
WBC posturing will see them lose the Government Account. I believe they think they are such a large company, and little old NZ can be pushed around to change their requirement for extra capital. SP already retreating.

The [central] Government [agencies] 'account' is not exclusive to Westpac since the last contract round, and it is a tiny rounding error on their total NZ revenue. The account is a strategic position, giving access to the agencies CFO, CEO's and government Ministers.

I won't be surprised if talk of selling WBNZ is just a tactical push back on RBNZ after they've been hammered by regs, reviews, restrictions, etc etc.

mikelee
26-03-2021, 12:08 PM
good for customer to have so much competitions but NZ market is simply too small for so many banks

ynot
27-03-2021, 07:47 AM
The [central] Government [agencies] 'account' is not exclusive to Westpac since the last contract round, and it is a tiny rounding error on their total NZ revenue. The account is a strategic position, giving access to the agencies CFO, CEO's and government Ministers.

I won't be surprised if talk of selling WBNZ is just a tactical push back on RBNZ after they've been hammered by regs, reviews, restrictions, etc etc.

Yes, tactical push came to mind.
Why would they want to sell if the 3 kiwi branches of the big 3 are as suggested the "jewels in the crown" for them. They make a better return on investment in nz than back home.

macduffy
27-03-2021, 09:04 AM
Yes, tactical push came to mind.
Why would they want to sell if the 3 kiwi branches of the big 3 are as suggested the "jewels in the crown" for them. They make a better return on investment in nz than back home.

That's my pick, too, ynot. NZ has consistently provided around 20% of Aussie banks' profits from around 15% of their business.

As for NZ being too small for "so many banks", the opposite, not enough competition, is a more frequently heard comment.

traineeinvestor
27-03-2021, 12:25 PM
From Hotcopper:

"The high costs [or RBNZ regulatory changes] involved have challenged the outlooks of the Australian-headquartered Big Four lenders, with analysts estimating their return on equity ratios could fall by between half and a third from the about 15% they used to deliver."

"With profitability becoming more challenging, "we don't think an Australian bank owning a New Zealand bank makes sense," Johnson said." [Brian Johnson is an analyst with Jeffries]

"Westpac's New Zealand unit represents about 10% of its earnings and credit exposure. According to KPMG, it could be valued at over A$10 billion"

https://hotcopper.com.au/threads/news-wbc-westpac-could-lead-australian-exit-from-new-zealand-banking.5977385/

Disclosure: held

Waltzing
27-03-2021, 12:55 PM
would not be surprised if costs for customers go up..

or a reduction in services until they ROI moves back up.

it could be a way of getting the big ANZ, WBC to push up costs.

how much competition do they really have.

Else they get grumpy ... moan a lot and then accept the status Q.

Bjauck
27-03-2021, 01:43 PM
That's my pick, too, ynot. NZ has consistently provided around 20% of Aussie banks' profits from around 15% of their business.

As for NZ being too small for "so many banks", the opposite, not enough competition, is a more frequently heard comment.. It is shameful that so much of NZ's banking business is overseas owned. All that residential property mortgage business providing profits for Australian shareholders! Those big Aussie owned banks were among the biggest beneficiaries of the debt-fuelled NZ preference for investing in housing/land as opposed to shares?

Disc: HGH shareholder

Greekwatchdog
27-03-2021, 01:46 PM
I would like to see a consortium of Kiwibank lead with ACC and Super Fund to buy. I wonder if they had the $10b between them...

macduffy
27-03-2021, 02:02 PM
. It is shameful that so much of NZ's banking business is overseas owned. All that residential property mortgage business providing profits for Australian shareholders! Those big Aussie owned banks were among the biggest beneficiaries of the debt-fuelled NZ preference for investing in housing/land as opposed to shares?

Disc: HGH shareholder

Correct. That's why I have a good chunk of my investments in ANZ and WBC. Not particularly tax-effective but good returns for many years, so far!

ynot
27-03-2021, 02:45 PM
Its just a fact that in so many ways, wether by circumstances beyond our ability to manage or incompetence, I'm not sure which, we appear as a nation to be financially flawed. Our banking ownership appears to be a classic example of this.

Bjauck
27-03-2021, 03:04 PM
Correct. That's why I have a good chunk of my investments in ANZ and WBC. Not particularly tax-effective but good returns for many years, so far!
You may have owned the big Aussies for decades. However a family member has owned ANZ shares for some time. They reckoned that over the past 10 years the return was about 5%pa or about the same as for a rolled over 5 year term deposit - and lower than the the return from the NZX50 index. I am not sure about Westpac but it could be about the same?

So if ANZ - NZ subsidiary is a jewel in their portfolio, it was a shame for NZ investors when Lloyds flogged the National Bank to ANZ. Who knows, an independent NZ owned and listed National Bank may now have been in the running to acquire Westpac NZ....

If only tax and investment reform had occurred earlier by someone with a more precise knife rather than Ardern's hatchet!

GTM 3442
28-03-2021, 08:29 AM
I would like to see a consortium of Kiwibank lead with ACC and Super Fund to buy. I wonder if they had the $10b between them...

Be careful what you wish for.

New Zealand has a long history of New Zealanders no being very good at running banks.

ynot
28-03-2021, 09:21 AM
Be careful what you wish for.

New Zealand has a long history of New Zealanders no being very good at running banks.
Exactly. whats our problem.

RTM
03-05-2021, 10:36 AM
Some good news for holders of banking stocks.
I am one of them.

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WBC/371545/345231.pdf

Nice to have a dividend again.

Waltzing
03-05-2021, 05:50 PM
Historical dividends



Code
Ex Dividend
Period
Amount
Supp.
Imputation
Payable
Currency


WBC (https://www.nzx.com/instruments/WBC)
11 Nov 2020
Final
31.000c
0.000c
0.000c
18 Dec 2020
AUD



Should see the final increase again as well.

Might see ANZ outperform with a much increased Div as well.

As stated below bytim23.. result and dividend announcement.

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WBC/371544/345230.pdf

tim23
03-05-2021, 06:05 PM
Historical dividends

Code
Ex Dividend
Period
Amount
Supp.
Imputation
Payable
Currency


WBC (https://www.nzx.com/instruments/WBC)
11 Nov 2020
Final
31.000c
0.000c
0.000c
18 Dec 2020
AUD





Should see the final increase again as well.

Might see ANZ outperform with a much increased Div as well.

58c divvy announced

tim23
03-05-2021, 06:12 PM
58c divvy announced

Correction A 56c

Panda-NZ-
20-05-2021, 02:58 PM
No where to hide from the inflation beast, except in a bank.

98% profit upgrade for the NZ division. its a shame about the lack of imputation.

peat
24-06-2021, 08:45 AM
Of course they are

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/374427

dabsman
24-06-2021, 11:18 AM
Of course they are

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/374427

Cant kill the golden goose. Easy money

peat
24-06-2021, 11:25 AM
I dont know if I'm being pedantic or not but it amused me that Westpac New Zealand Limited (WNZL) stated its purpose as 'helping Australians and New Zealanders to succeed'.
yes!! In that order - I'm not sure what Australians have to do with WNZL other than owning it of course. But its purpose !!??

Hahah

nztx
24-06-2021, 04:42 PM
I dont know if I'm being pedantic or not but it amused me that Westpac New Zealand Limited (WNZL) stated its purpose as 'helping Australians and New Zealanders to succeed'.
yes!! In that order - I'm not sure what Australians have to do with WNZL other than owning it of course. But its purpose !!??

Hahah


Probably cost at least $10 million to correct that marketing c*ck up for the two separate markets .. ;)

mind you couldn't be worse than NZ Post's new logo which seems to suggest courier deliveries take the
longer round about loop-de-loopy route (adding further days to delivery times in the process) ;)

Scrunch
25-06-2021, 08:13 PM
Our 2021 first half performance signals this progress. Cash earnings improved significantly, and
we have materially increased our financial strength. This will be enhanced further as capital is
released from the disposal of our non-core businesses. Our excess capital and franking credit
position should enable the Board, at the appropriate time, to consider a return of capital to
shareholders.

The above sentence was in the shareholder letter from the chairman accompanying the dividend. I wonder what mechanism they will use, and how much will be distributed?

dabsman
25-06-2021, 08:30 PM
The above sentence was in the shareholder letter from the chairman accompanying the dividend. I wonder what mechanism they will use, and how much will be distributed?

I'd prefer not to get a dividend. I'd prefer they buy shares back...

macduffy
26-06-2021, 10:57 AM
The above sentence was in the shareholder letter from the chairman accompanying the dividend. I wonder what mechanism they will use, and how much will be distributed?

We'll have to wait and see how much capital is released from the sale of "non-core" businesses. Have these been identified at this stage?

RTM
26-06-2021, 12:01 PM
I'd prefer not to get a dividend. I'd prefer they buy shares back...

Good for you. I would prefer the dividend.

Snoopy
26-06-2021, 03:03 PM
We'll have to wait and see how much capital is released from the sale of "non-core" businesses. Have these been identified at this stage?


There have been quite a few business unit sales at Westpac since Covid-19 hit.

1/ Westpac have sold their lenders mortgage insurance business to Arch Capital (announced 18-03-2021, sale will be loss making with $84m goodwill write down).
2/ Westpac have paid $80m to get out of their relationship with ASX listed IOOF. IOOF is a wealth management and investment advice company that had a ten year deal to favour the Westpac owned BT panorama wealth management platform.
3/ Westpac have sold their pacific business unit (7th December 2020) Westpac Fiji and Westpac Papua New Guinea to Kina Bank (ASX:KSL). There will be an expected accounting loss on the sale of $230m.
4/ Westpac have sold their general insurance business to Allianz (announced 2nd December 2020). The sale price of $725m represents 1.3x FY2020 revenue.
5/ Westpac has disposed of their 10% stake of holding in Zip Holdings (ASX:Z1P). Zip supplies point of sale credit and digital payment services. Announced on 27-10-2020, at the share tender price of $6,65, this resulted in proceeds of $367m on a total investment cost of $48.9m.
6/ Westpac sold 'Vendor Finance' on 21-07-2020 to 'Angle Finance'. 'Vendor Finance' supports third parties selling small ticket equipment. The relatively small size of the loan portfolio ($500m) means this sale will have little effect on the Westpac balance sheet.
7/ Westpac on 18-06-2020 sold down their residual 9.5% stake in Pendal Group (formerly BT Investment Management). 31 million shares at a price of $5.98 per share means $185m was banked. This final sell down follows earlier sell downs in 2007, 2015 and 2017.

Still to be sold are the superannuation, wealth platforms and life insurance businesses. Auto finance is also tipped to be hocked off.

Westpac have grouped their businesses to be sold under the 'Specialist Business' division that made a cash loss of $506m in total over FY2020.

SNOOPY

dabsman
26-06-2021, 03:39 PM
Good for you. I would prefer the dividend.

Just not tax efficient to receive dividend as a kiw. I wont say no if they give me thousands thou just saying...

RTM
26-06-2021, 04:04 PM
Just not tax efficient to receive dividend as a kiw. I wont say no if they give me thousands thou just saying...

That may well be the case if its a straight dividend. There are ways of doing a capital return other than buying back shares.
Buying back shares does not put bread on my table. And yes, before you start, ...I do realise I can sell a few shares to match the buy back..etc etc.

Panda-NZ-
26-06-2021, 05:33 PM
If they are honest about wanting to serve New Zealanders better they could start with a share repurchase over aussie retirees harvesting "franken credits".

Bjauck
27-06-2021, 07:39 AM
I dont know if I'm being pedantic or not but it amused me that Westpac New Zealand Limited (WNZL) stated its purpose as 'helping Australians and New Zealanders to succeed'.
yes!! In that order - I'm not sure what Australians have to do with WNZL other than owning it of course. But its purpose !!??

Hahah Westpac is just stating the obvious as to what every company does - operating within the law to maximise the return for its shareholders, of which Kiwis comprise a small percentage. Kiwis have a system which leads to Kiwis preferring to borrow from the Aussie owned banks to buy real estate rather than owning shares and investment funds. So all's good?

macduffy
27-06-2021, 03:17 PM
Still to be sold are the superannuation, wealth platforms and life insurance businesses. Auto finance is also tipped to be hocked off.

Thanks for all the detail in your post, Snoopy.

Those businesses yet to be sold are the important, higher-value ones. It will be interesting to see what prices they fetch, if sold.

macduffy
27-06-2021, 03:17 PM
Deleted duplicate.

peat
28-06-2021, 12:11 PM
Westpac is just stating the obvious as to what every company does - operating within the law to maximise the return for its shareholders, of which Kiwis comprise a small percentage. Kiwis have a system which leads to Kiwis preferring to borrow from the Aussie owned banks to buy real estate rather than owning shares and investment funds. So all's good?

My point was for Westpac NZ who have nothing to do with Australians (except as mentioned being owned by the Australian Westpac).

I was trying to point out somewhat facetiously that even as a NZ company they admit with their own language they prioritise Ozzies.

RTM
15-07-2021, 08:23 AM
Might be of interest to some. Wonder what the chance of success is ? Measured by $'s to investors.
https://phifinneymcdonald.com/projects/


WESTPAC SHAREHOLDER CLASS ACTION
Phi Finney McDonald acts for the representative applicant in a class action against ASX-listed Westpac Banking Corporation (Westpac) commenced in the Federal Court of Australia.

The claim is brought on behalf of investors (group members) who acquired shares traded on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) and the New Zealand Stock Exchange, American Depository Receipts (ADRs) traded on the New York Stock Exchange, and long exposure equity swaps, between 16 December 2013 to 19 November 2019 (inclusive) (Claim Period). The class action is funded by Woodsford Litigation Funding (Woodsford).

Registration

If you acquired Westpac securities between 16 December 2013 and 19 November 2019 (inclusive), please email westpac@pfm.law to register and obtain more information about the class action.

Ricky-bobby
15-07-2021, 02:02 PM
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/125745731/sacred-hill-wine-group-owes-more-than-98m-in-outstanding-debts-receivers-say I would be pretty pissed off if I was a westpac shareholder… $52 mil debt for that size company is an outrage…

peat
15-07-2021, 03:31 PM
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/125745731/sacred-hill-wine-group-owes-more-than-98m-in-outstanding-debts-receivers-say I would be pretty pissed off if I was a westpac shareholder… $52 mil debt for that size company is an outrage…

but the bank will have security over some of the assets I reckon. so they may not miss out much or at all even. Its the unsecured creditors that will suffer.

Toulouse - Luzern
16-07-2021, 08:34 PM
I also received this notice of the class action.
I bought and sold at a loss in the relevant period.
I see there is no downside for ex Shareholders seeing how it plays out.
I see a good chance of success.
Not a legal opinion, but on a de Bono evaluation basis:
"White high level facts":
It seems Westpac did poorly at the Royal Commission.
Inter alia, Risk management and money laundering management and reporting poor, exposing shareholders to risk.
Westpac fined AUD 1.3B subsequently.
Senior Executive went.
Westpac has already lost another Class Action re Insurance in April 2021 with another firm of lawyers.
Competent lawyers with the current brief and 3rd party "insurance" funded on a no win no fee basis.
In Court in Victoria next on 21 October 2021
Make you own evaluation ...
Caveat I have not seen the detail of the Plaintiff case.
The Westpac defence response is on a numbered paragraph basis referenced to the Plaintiff Case points.
Without the two sides data side by side it is not possible to fully assess the validity of the Defence case.



Might be of interest to some. Wonder what the chance of success is ? Measured by $'s to investors.
https://phifinneymcdonald.com/projects/


WESTPAC SHAREHOLDER CLASS ACTION
Phi Finney McDonald acts for the representative applicant in a class action against ASX-listed Westpac Banking Corporation (Westpac) commenced in the Federal Court of Australia.

Registration

If you acquired Westpac securities between 16 December 2013 and 19 November 2019 (inclusive), please email westpac@pfm.law to register and obtain more information about the class action.

Toulouse - Luzern
16-07-2021, 08:43 PM
I also received this notice of the class action.
I bought and sold at a loss in the relevant period.
I see there is no downside for ex Shareholders seeing how it plays out.
I see a good chance of success.
Not a legal opinion, but on a de Bono evaluation basis:
"White high level facts":
It seems Westpac did poorly at the Royal Commission.
As did all the banks.
IMHO many still think some action was called for against most or all of the banks based on the revelations at the Royal Commission.
For Westpac, inter alia, Risk management and money laundering management and reporting poor, exposing shareholders without the true facts to risk.
Westpac was fined AUD 1.3B subsequently.
Senior Executive went.
Westpac has already lost another Class Action re Insurance, in April 2021 with another firm of lawyers.
Competent lawyers with the current brief and 3rd party "insurance" funded on a no win no fee basis.

In Court in Victoria next on 21 October 2021

Make you own evaluation.

Caveat I have not seen the detail of the Plaintiff case.
The Westpac Defense response is on a numbered paragraph basis apparently referenced to the detailed Plaintiff Case points.
Without the two sides data side by side it is not possible to fully assess the validity of the Defence case.

Maybe someone else better qualified could access this and comment.

Thanks




Might be of interest to some. Wonder what the chance of success is ? Measured by $'s to investors.
https://phifinneymcdonald.com/projects/


WESTPAC SHAREHOLDER CLASS ACTION
Phi Finney McDonald acts for the representative applicant in a class action against ASX-listed Westpac Banking Corporation (Westpac) commenced in the Federal Court of Australia.

Registration

If you acquired Westpac securities between 16 December 2013 and 19 November 2019 (inclusive), please email westpac@pfm.law to register and obtain more information about the class action.

Snoopy
09-08-2021, 12:14 PM
There have been quite a few business unit sales at Westpac since Covid-19 hit.

1/ Westpac have sold their lenders mortgage insurance business to Arch Capital (announced 18-03-2021, sale will be loss making with $84m goodwill write down).
2/ Westpac have paid $80m to get out of their relationship with ASX listed IOOF. IOOF is a wealth management and investment advice company that had a ten year deal to favour the Westpac owned BT panorama wealth management platform.
3/ Westpac have sold their pacific business unit (7th December 2020) Westpac Fiji and Westpac Papua New Guinea to Kina Bank (ASX:KSL). There will be an expected accounting loss on the sale of $230m.
4/ Westpac have sold their general insurance business to Allianz (announced 2nd December 2020). The sale price of $725m represents 1.3x FY2020 revenue.
5/ Westpac has disposed of their 10% stake of holding in Zip Holdings (ASX:Z1P). Zip supplies point of sale credit and digital payment services. Announced on 27-10-2020, at the share tender price of $6,65, this resulted in proceeds of $367m on a total investment cost of $48.9m.
6/ Westpac sold 'Vendor Finance' on 21-07-2020 to 'Angle Finance'. 'Vendor Finance' supports third parties selling small ticket equipment. The relatively small size of the loan portfolio ($500m) means this sale will have little effect on the Westpac balance sheet.
7/ Westpac on 18-06-2020 sold down their residual 9.5% stake in Pendal Group (formerly BT Investment Management). 31 million shares at a price of $5.98 per share means $185m was banked. This final sell down follows earlier sell downs in 2007, 2015 and 2017.

Still to be sold are the superannuation, wealth platforms and life insurance businesses. Auto finance is also tipped to be hocked off.

Westpac have grouped their businesses to be sold under the 'Specialist Business' division that made a cash loss of $506m in total over FY2020.


Progress Report:

3b/ 26-07-2021 Papua New Guinea’s Independent Consumer and Competition Commission (ICCC). The ICCC has released its draft determination indicating it proposes to deny authorisation to Kina Bank for the proposed acquisition of WSpecialistestpac's stake in Westpac Bank PNG Limited. Kina already has a banking presence in Papua New Guinea. So this proposed acquisition would remove one of only four players in that market.

6b/ 03-08-2021 Vendor Finance business sale to Angle Finance1, has completed. The sale has a negligible impact on Westpac’s balance sheet and capital ratios. A small accounting loss was recognised in FY20.

8/ 09-08-2021 Westpac today announced it has agreed with TAL Dai-ichi Life Australia Pty Limited (“TAL”) to sell 'Westpac Life Insurance Services Limited' and enter an exclusive 20-year strategic alliance for the provision of life insurance products to Westpac’s Australian customers. The sale price of $900m represents a multiple of 0.96x FY20 embedded value1. In addition, the transaction includes ongoing payments to Westpac. The transaction sees Westpac exit manufacturing life insurance products and releases significant capital back to the bank. The total accounting loss on sale is approximately $1.3 billion post-tax.

SNOOPY

Waltzing
09-08-2021, 02:05 PM
Dont forget the new class action being filed by locals.

Grimy
22-08-2021, 08:12 PM
Has anyone that has been notified they are part of the class action decided to opt-out?
I haven't as I don't see any downside to being in. But then I don't really know much about the pros and cons, or what realistically the chances of getting a result is (I guess there will be a result. One way or the other).
Basically I haven't given it much thought.

dabsman
01-11-2021, 10:14 AM
A bit dissapointed with divvy but share buyback best way to go tax wise for me. Pretty profitable being a big bank

Grimy
01-11-2021, 05:02 PM
Going by the share price drop there are plenty of people not happy. I would have preferred a larger dividend rather than the big buyback - even if not as tax effective - as it often seems that the NTA after a buyback is not always reflected in the share price going forward.
Possibly a top-up opportunity?

dabsman
01-11-2021, 05:35 PM
Going by the share price drop there are plenty of people not happy. I would have preferred a larger dividend rather than the big buyback - even if not as tax effective - as it often seems that the NTA after a buyback is not always reflected in the share price going forward.
Possibly a top-up opportunity?

Yep I topped up. Got a bit at $25.40

Grimy
01-11-2021, 06:20 PM
That'll teach me for being outside gardening!
Will see how the price goes tomorrow. Although I do have drain cleaning on the to do list in the morning.........

dabsman
01-11-2021, 06:34 PM
That'll teach me for being outside gardening!
Will see how the price goes tomorrow. Although I do have drain cleaning on the to do list in the morning.........

WBC cleaned my drains today... like an enema

Onion
01-11-2021, 09:40 PM
A bit dissapointed with divvy but share buyback best way to go tax wise for me. Pretty profitable being a big bank

Please correct my reasoning here if I've got things wrong - I don't currently understand the buy back offer.

To get a tax benefit you'll need to sell down over 15% of your holding (?).

Reading the info on NZ tax (section 2.5, page 20) it suggests that if you don't sell them more than 15% of your holding you need to treat the buy back as a dividend anyway. So I'm not sure of the tax advantage over a dividend.

To gain a tax advantage you would need to sell over 15% of you holding -- then presumably you can treat it (the non-dividend part?) as a capital gain (so not taxable unless you are trading the shares - "hold their Shares on revenue account").

:confused:

Grimy
02-11-2021, 07:53 AM
I'm sure dabsman was referring to the tax we pay on any dividend (and the Aussie Franking credits aren't usually that helpful for us in NZ), compared to a buy back where the NTA should go up, meaning the share price should go up, on which we are not paying tax on.

Snoopy
02-11-2021, 08:38 AM
Please correct my reasoning here if I've got things wrong - I don't currently understand the buy back offer.

Reading the info on NZ tax (section 2.5, page 20) it suggests that if you don't sell them more than 15% of your holding you need to treat the buy back as a dividend anyway. So I'm not sure of the tax advantage over a dividend.


These buyback offers are designed to minimise tax payments for Australian investors. As an NZ investor you will be tax disadvantaged, and as the offer documents say, the amount of shares bought back will see you incur a tax bill. If you want to get some money out of WBC just sell the shares, that you would have put towards the buyback, on the market. After tax, you will end up with more money. Put the offer straight in the bin. For NZ investors, accepting the offer is a guaranteed way to lose money.

SNOOPY

Onion
02-11-2021, 09:00 AM
These buyback offers are designed to minimise tax payments for Australian investors. As an NZ investor you will be tax disadvantaged, and as the offer documents say, the amount of shares bought back will see you incur a tax bill. If you want to get some money out of WBC just sell the shares, that you would have put towards the buyback, on the market. After tax, you will end up with more money. Put the offer straight in the bin. For NZ investors, accepting the offer is a guaranteed way to lose money.

SNOOPY

Thanks Snoopy.

I think I’ll just hold and get the normal dividend. And with the buy back end up with a slightly bigger slice of the pie.

peat
02-11-2021, 09:21 AM
These buyback offers are designed to minimise tax payments for Australian investors. As an NZ investor you will be tax disadvantaged, and as the offer documents say, the amount of shares bought back will see you incur a tax bill. If you want to get some money out of WBC just sell the shares, that you would have put towards the buyback, on the market. After tax, you will end up with more money. Put the offer straight in the bin. For NZ investors, accepting the offer is a guaranteed way to lose money.

SNOOPY

I was reading it and my eyebrows just kept going higher and higher!!

The main benefits as outlined appear to be tax driven and yet I thought doing anything purely for tax reduction purposes was considered tax fraud.

This is just weird to me.

dabsman
02-11-2021, 09:22 AM
Yep I'll do nothing and the buyback will reduce the shares on offer which of course is better for me as a long term holder. Already paying a lot of tax to fund this lockdown I'm not interested in creating more income because the directors couldnt arrange an on market share purchase plan like ANZ...

dabsman
02-11-2021, 09:23 AM
These buyback offers are designed to minimise tax payments for Australian investors. As an NZ investor you will be tax disadvantaged, and as the offer documents say, the amount of shares bought back will see you incur a tax bill. If you want to get some money out of WBC just sell the shares, that you would have put towards the buyback, on the market. After tax, you will end up with more money. Put the offer straight in the bin. For NZ investors, accepting the offer is a guaranteed way to lose money.

SNOOPY

I started reading "sell your shares at a 15% discount.." or whatever it was and nearly died haha

RTM
02-11-2021, 11:32 AM
These buyback offers are designed to minimise tax payments for Australian investors. As an NZ investor you will be tax disadvantaged, and as the offer documents say, the amount of shares bought back will see you incur a tax bill. If you want to get some money out of WBC just sell the shares, that you would have put towards the buyback, on the market. After tax, you will end up with more money. Put the offer straight in the bin. For NZ investors, accepting the offer is a guaranteed way to lose money.

SNOOPY

I'm extremely pressed time-wise at the moment. I hold ANZ (breakeven) and WBC (Solid loss) as I don't think they will fail and generally they pay a dividend. Had them for a few years. I see with Oz open they are down another 2.9%. I am extremely interested in topping up at these levels.
Does anyone have any perspective on if this is really dumb ? Or maybe a good idea ? I am a buy and hold long term investor....hence why I have been burnt with these already I guess. Thanks for comments on buy back.

Onion
02-11-2021, 12:25 PM
I started reading "sell your shares at a 15% discount.." or whatever it was and nearly died haha

They seem to have a good comedy team in Sydney headquarters.

Snoopy
02-11-2021, 01:24 PM
I'm extremely pressed time-wise at the moment. I hold ANZ (breakeven) and WBC (Solid loss) as I don't think they will fail and generally they pay a dividend. Had them for a few years. I see with Oz open they are down another 2.9%. I am extremely interested in topping up at these levels.
Does anyone have any perspective on if this is really dumb ? Or maybe a good idea ? I am a buy and hold long term investor....hence why I have been burnt with these already I guess.


I for many years defended my holding of Oz bank shares against the alternative (as I saw it then) slightly dodgy Heartland Bank (a BBB rated finance company in reality). However after five solid years on the market, and working through the bad debt issues, I found that Heartland had successfully targeted profitable niches where the big banks did not want to tread. In the end the track record became compelling, there were no more excuses not to buy, and I became a 'Heartlander'.

Last time I went in and saw my broker, I got the old line of "banks are a good place to invest in times of rising interest rates blah blah blah."

That stopped me selling any of my ANZ or Westpac shares. But when it came time to supporting the last post Covid-19 Westpac recapitalisation, I stacked that opportunity up against putting that same money into Heartland and chose the latter. History has shown that was a good decision.

I am still, just, a customer of Westpac in New Zealand, although all I have left is a current account which I will move probably to the ANZ. Westpac have a habit of experimenting on their NZ customers, before rolling out 'improvements' to their Australian network. Personally I don't like the way the experiment is going. Westpac have gone from having one of the best nationwide banking networks to now lagging well behind the BNZ and ANZ. I know that sounds a bit 'old school', and that Westpac see themselves morphing more into a virtual bank. But it was annoying under the first lockdown where I found myself on the Kapiti Coast and had to drive 30 minutes to my 'local' bank branch under level 4 when I was meant to be keeping things very local. I have also noticed that what branches do remain open, now have very limited hours - as low as twelve hours per week. I was similarly bemused when Westpac removed my account fee free status and they decided they would charge me for each and every transaction. There was no incentive for me to keep my five grand monthly average balance there going any longer, so I didn't. Even though I read later that Westpac were actually short of cash deposits. This smacks to me of poor management. I have the impression that as a customer, when I turn up personally at a Westpac bank branch, and stand waiting on display in the 'queue of shame', that I am pretty much an annoyance. This is all a personal anecdote of course. But it is entirely consistent with 'Net Promotor Score' information published in Westpac's annual result presentations that shows Westpac right at the bottom for consumer satisfaction for banks in NZ and in Australia. Thankfully, as business bankers, they do perform a little better.

I can see Westpac in the future becoming a specialist business banker and withdrawing from the consumer market entirely, except for maybe a mobile mortgage arm. The problem is these 'safe' old school banks are under attack from category busting start ups on many fronts. The likes of Afterpay taking it to the traditional credit card business for example. Low interest rates have alienated their older term deposit investors, who have sought better returns elsewhere, and will likely not return. This doesn't matter for now with the government underwriting very low cost borrowing. But when interest rates rise again? The wealth business has been largely exited, as the likes of Sharsies move in. Even for commercial loans, the upstart fintechs now have easier to use borrowing approaches that traditional banks find hard to match.

I don't see WBC going bust. But neither do I see it returning to its glory days. I see a tired business, relying on customer lethargy (looking myself in the mirror as I say that) wasting their traditional face to face advantage, thinking it will transform into a start up matching virtual bank, but without the agility of its newer competitors. When WBC realises how little goodwill they have, I can see a much smaller WBC going forwards. That can't be good for customers and eventually it doesn't bode well for shareholders either. I am hanging onto what WBC shares I have for now, even as they become a less and less important part of my overall portfolio. But longer term I see my holdings in NZ based niche finance companies (TRA and HGH) going up, while my Aussie bank holdings go down. The brokers keep ringing out the party line:

"banks are a good place to invest in times of rising interest rates blah blah blah."

But somehow, I just can't see it, with those big banks (especially Westpac) anyway. And I am starting to like more those 'full imputation credits' that the likes of HGH and TRA provide.

SNOOPY

discl: hold ANZ, WBC, HGH, TRA

RTM
02-11-2021, 02:05 PM
Thanks Snoopy....food for thought and somewhat echo's my thoughts. My personal experience with WBC is so bad I would not walk in their door again.
However, I do like the Australian exposure it gives me.
And I already hold a decent allocation of the finance company Heartland....8.46% of portfolio. Plenty I think. And Turners...although I have yet to fully decide if that's finance or a car sales company.

Will procrastinate a bit longer.
Back to work !

dabsman
03-11-2021, 09:42 AM
I bought more again at $24.30. This is cheap. Even if they miss their cost cutting target they produced a lot of cash and even more after hitting the gym a bit. Happy to add more

Eden
03-11-2021, 10:20 AM
I'm extremely pressed time-wise at the moment. I hold ANZ (breakeven) and WBC (Solid loss) as I don't think they will fail and generally they pay a dividend. Had them for a few years. I see with Oz open they are down another 2.9%. I am extremely interested in topping up at these levels.
Does anyone have any perspective on if this is really dumb ? Or maybe a good idea ? I am a buy and hold long term investor....hence why I have been burnt with these already I guess. Thanks for comments on buy back.
Another alternative to consider is the Smartshares Australian Financials ETF. Provides exposure to all the Aussie banks and insurance companies.

RTM
03-11-2021, 11:48 AM
Another alternative to consider is the Smartshares Australian Financials ETF. Provides exposure to all the Aussie banks and insurance companies.

Thanks… this one ?
ASF.NZ - Smartshares Australian Financials ETF Units
Dividend Yield: 1.41%

We are retired, live largely on divvies, so would prefer a better dividend.
Or is the rate in DB incorrect ?

Eden
03-11-2021, 01:06 PM
Thanks… this one ?
ASF.NZ - Smartshares Australian Financials ETF Units
Dividend Yield: 1.41%

We are retired, live largely on divvies, so would prefer a better dividend.
Or is the rate in DB incorrect ?
That's the one. Yield has been higher historically - about 27cps in 2019 versus about 11cps in 2021. It's odd that current yield is so low when the constituent parts of the ETF (banks and insurance companies) are typically around 3-5%.

Panda-NZ-
03-11-2021, 03:11 PM
RBA (Australia) may not raise rates until 2024.

This could be bad for banks... given the economic situation may be different in 2024.

Waltzing
03-11-2021, 03:21 PM
"RBA (Australia) may not raise rates until 2024."

keep the price down for while.. buy more of certain ones and move any losses into off shore entities.

Scrunch
05-11-2021, 09:39 PM
Please correct my reasoning here if I've got things wrong - I don't currently understand the buy back offer.

To get a tax benefit you'll need to sell down over 15% of your holding (?).

Reading the info on NZ tax (section 2.5, page 20) it suggests that if you don't sell them more than 15% of your holding you need to treat the buy back as a dividend anyway. So I'm not sure of the tax advantage over a dividend.

To gain a tax advantage you would need to sell over 15% of you holding -- then presumably you can treat it (the non-dividend part?) as a capital gain (so not taxable unless you are trading the shares - "hold their Shares on revenue account").

:confused:

From a quick read, you have it right - the buy-back is an Australian tax structured deal. Snoopy confirmed as much but it needs to be repeated so no NZ shareholder is scalped into participating.

Any NZ shareholder thinking it may be sensible to participate - unless you have a really weird tax situation it probably isn't. You need to remember that Australia has a marginal tax based capital gains tax. Capital gains tax for shares sold in the first year are taxed at your marginal tax rate. After one year there's a 50% discount. Selling below market may be sensible for Australian shareholders so that sale proceeds avoid the capital gains tax net (or get captured at a more effective rate - I didn't dig closely enough to figure which it was)

Personally I think the whole deal is a bad idea. Structured tax deals have their place in the corporate world, but its inviting legislative change if you try to be cute and introduce them to the retail world. How about spending all this creative energy on running the bank better!!!

peat
11-11-2021, 10:24 AM
A bottom in ?

13204

almost certainly a temporary one at least.

dibble
16-11-2021, 03:15 PM
So this is how the buy-back will work.

"If you are an Eligible Shareholder, you can offer to sell some or all of your Shares to Westpac: at a Discount to the Market Price1 nominated by you of between 8% and 14% inclusive (at 1% intervals); and/or; at the final Buy-Back Price2 (as a Final Price Application). You can also select a Minimum Price below which none of your Shares will be bought back."

Seems odd that anyone would sell any through this parallel channel/universe unless you wanted to get rid of 2 or 3 at no brokerage. Is this complicated thing a good use of anyone's time or the likely decent money Westpac paid for financial "advice" and setting up the whole process. Unless im missing something obvious (highly likely) I dont see how this is better than a dividend...unless a whole bunch of holders are happy to sell at 14% discount.

RTM
16-11-2021, 04:08 PM
So this is how the buy-back will work.

"If you are an Eligible Shareholder, you can offer to sell some or all of your Shares to Westpac: at a Discount to the Market Price1 nominated by you of between 8% and 14% inclusive (at 1% intervals); and/or; at the final Buy-Back Price2 (as a Final Price Application). You can also select a Minimum Price below which none of your Shares will be bought back."

Seems odd that anyone would sell any through this parallel channel/universe unless you wanted to get rid of 2 or 3 at no brokerage. Is this complicated thing a good use of anyone's time or the likely decent money Westpac paid for financial "advice" and setting up the whole process. Unless im missing something obvious (highly likely) I dont see how this is better than a dividend...unless a whole bunch of holders are happy to sell at 14% discount.

I just pressed delete on my invitation to participate. Thanks Scrunch.

Waltzing
16-11-2021, 04:16 PM
Yesssss Weeelll..

Lets see it reminds of Danny Carvey doing Jimmy Stewart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axZj8noY0fo

Sithalith
22-11-2021, 07:13 PM
Why is Westpac in some kind of free fall? I'm a Newbie but thought this was a safe bet, was up 25% a few months ago, now in the red 😐 Good time to buy more?

Grimy
26-11-2021, 04:40 PM
I bought more again at $24.30. This is cheap. Even if they miss their cost cutting target they produced a lot of cash and even more after hitting the gym a bit. Happy to add more

I'm also happy to add some more, but looking like there is no rush (that goes for most on my watchlist.....).

Waltzing
27-11-2021, 06:55 AM
They have a lot of work to do to rebuild investor confidence after being badly exposed to mal practise. It will take a bit of time for the market to trust this brand. Price should stay down for a while one hopes until NIM build later next year.

Arbitrage
14-12-2021, 10:00 AM
Yes I went in on this share yesterday. Looking back over the past 5 years the share price trend has been generally downward. WBC has not had the best risk management processes over the years - some may remember Lane Walker Rudkins shambles. This must reflect on the management. However the share price seems low so may be worth a punt. Still it is a cheap ozzie bank and pays dividends so I am banking (sorry for the pun) on an upside.

RTM
14-12-2021, 11:23 AM
Yes I went in on this share yesterday. Looking back over the past 5 years the share price trend has been generally downward. WBC has not had the best risk management processes over the years - some may remember Lane Walker Rudkins shambles. This must reflect on the management. However the share price seems low so may be worth a punt. Still it is a cheap ozzie bank and pays dividends so I am banking (sorry for the pun) on an upside.

Yes...agree. I doubled down last week. Can't go much lower...can it ?
Fingers crossed.

Toulouse - Luzern
14-12-2021, 12:46 PM
WBC have lost 3 out of 3 at least class actions by Law Firms and Financiers on a no win ho fee basis for the mal practise issues exposed by the Royal Commissioner into banking
Another is in process on behalf of shareholders in respect of failures in communication, risk management and anti money laundering processes.

Sideshow Bob
14-12-2021, 12:51 PM
WBC have lost 3 out of 3 at least class actions by Law Firms and Financiers on a no win ho fee basis for the mal practise issues exposed by the Royal Commissioner into banking
Another is in process on behalf of shareholders in respect of failures in communication, risk management and anti money laundering processes.

And still trading higher than a year ago..... ;)

Grimy
14-12-2021, 02:00 PM
Yes...agree. I doubled down last week. Can't go much lower...can it ?
Fingers crossed.

I'm still waiting for it to retrace to around $20 (last topped up at $19.74 in October last year). There seems to be a never-ending list of bad news with WBC, so happy to wait a while longer.

Arbitrage
14-12-2021, 05:29 PM
After todays efforts, hopefully the chart trend is changing upwards. Morningstar has it as a buy....

RTM
14-12-2021, 07:45 PM
After todays efforts, hopefully the chart trend is changing upwards. Morningstar has it as a buy....

Motley Fool as well.

Waltzing
14-12-2021, 08:15 PM
yes only has to get back to what ? got to be the bank with the most crooks in it in the south pacific or is there another one?

hopefully they have clean the decks and can start to rebuild.

be interesting to see the results of the class actions.

Arbitrage
16-12-2021, 10:08 AM
Quote from Sydney Morning Herald 15 Dec 2021 reporting on the WBC AGM: "Westpac chairman John McFarlane says he shares the intense frustration of shareholders over the bank’s poor results and has vowed to revive its performance, as investors delivered a hefty protest vote over its executive bonuses." Directors and Managers get well paid to perform. Haven't WBC problems been going on for years? Not only that but shareholders had a crack at them over funding fossil fuel expansions, and the banks attitude to climate change. This bank has shrunk to the smallest of the big banks. Being the oldest oz bank it seems like dinosaurs have control. This is not just about financial performance but also customer and public perception. Mr Chairman if you are reading this, I am happy to be contracted short term to sort the bank out (on an hourly rate to be negotiated but no bonus required). You have the power. To not use it to straighten up the bank and push it into the 21st century like the other banks have is "intensely frustrating" for shareholders. This could be done quickly hence my offer of a short contract. No job would be safe.

dabsman
14-02-2022, 12:35 PM
Glad the buy back is all tidied up now. Looks like a pretty good result for our cousins in the west island. Good pop today in share price. Hopefully back to ANZ's price in next 12 months.

Grimy
14-02-2022, 01:13 PM
Just as long as ANZ's price isn't back to WBC's! But certainly nice positive movement today.

Waltzing
14-02-2022, 02:02 PM
this paper is an ocker shocker ...

no want it to stay a shocker as we created a fabulous money go round for tax ... what a generator of losses back to un taxed gains..

half the ACA team said no no no and the legal beagle team went yes yes yes...

should have been a tax legal beagle after all... runs in the family...

bottomfeeder
14-02-2022, 05:17 PM
I am a retired accountant, and while I understand the background surrounding this, the actual figures have gone above me. So while the price is up and I am way ahead after my purchases not so long ago, I am selling on the way up.

Scrunch
14-02-2022, 09:00 PM
I am a retired accountant, and while I understand the background surrounding this, the actual figures have gone above me. So while the price is up and I am way ahead after my purchases not so long ago, I am selling on the way up.

As long as you don't have a rental property and get caught up in the messy edges of the NZ tax system, its pretty simple. Income = salary, interest (if any) and dividends (if any). Essentially nothing is deductable, although donations can be claimed separately. As long as your intention is to hold shares for the long-term, there isn't a capital gains tax. Australia doesn't have this same clean structure. Their top marginal tax rates are higher (although NZ caught this up somewhat with a 39% rate). They also have capital gains tax on share sale profits. While it decreases to 50% if held for longer than a year, its still there. I hope the calculations below are correct as I don't work with Oz tax. If they are, a long-term shareholder could be looking at a capital gains tax bill exceeding 10% of the current share price. That makes brokerage look like a trivial cost!! Its also means what looks nuts from a NZ tax perspective had Australian shareholders over-subscribing to sell shares at a discount to market.

Westpac's success in getting this deal away is likely to create further similar deals - these may be beneficial from an Oz tax perspective but not a good deal from a Kiwi tax viewpoint (but this isn't tax advice - DYOR).

Lets assume someone in Australia bought WBC many years ago at A$10. They are also now on the $180k+ income. This means their marginal tax rate is 45%. If they were to sell on-market at say $22, their capital gains tax bill is A$2.70/sharese (The sale creates a A$12 capital gain. $12*45%*50% long-term capital gains discount). With tax payable of 12% of the sale price, selling is a last resort and only occurs in years when an offsetting capital loss exists. Westpac's deal provided a chance to improve on this market sale equation.

dabsman
17-02-2022, 11:19 AM
Most likley answered here before but I'll ask again. If I shunt WBC shares to the ASX, the only difference is the liquidity (and an additional 5% margin with ASB)? When divvy is paid we still get the limited imputation credits being NZ taxpayers?

peat
27-07-2022, 06:51 PM
So this is a thing now
Westpac’s estimated Australian financed emissions intensity (kgCO2-e per $ lent1)
:mellow: