NZ Oil & Gas (NZO)

[arjay]

why has it dropped so much? Nearly 20% on no real news.
How low can she go? I think 80 might be a major support level to be tested...

[Bella52]

why has it dropped so much? Nearly 20% on no real news.

I think it's because of the greens showing the have balls, and they will destroy the country to get their way! Nzog getting sold off on the back of electricity changes?

[Bella52]

why has it dropped so much? Nearly 20% on no real news.

I think it's because of the greens showing they have balls, and they will destroy the country to get their way! Nzog getting sold off on the back of electricity changes?

[arjay]

Expand please - your comment makes sense only if NZOG is reaping a proportional share of the huge profits that Labour/Green say comapnies like Genesis are making off their cusotmers. Does the proportion of NZOG income from Genesis reflect the big S/P drop?


I think it's because of the greens showing they have balls, and they will destroy the country to get their way! Nzog getting sold off on the back of electricity changes?

[Lord Percy]

Expand please - your comment makes sense only if NZOG is reaping a proportional share of the huge profits that Labour/Green say comapnies like Genesis are making off their cusotmers. Does the proportion of NZOG income from Genesis reflect the big S/P drop?


Nzog has a relationship with Genesis through Kupe whereby Genesis takes NZOG 12 % on a take or pay contract. Vector buys the Kupe LPG on the same basis.

The greens/labour proposal will just be a middle market that's all. NZOG's contract should protect them.

NZOG are not very good at informing the market so pundits have to speculate. NZOG are very reliant on Tui oil and Kupe gas for their income and that is dwindling but they are sitting on pile of cash.

They need to explore for hydrocarbons and find something for this puppy to get traction, but they may get that if Pan Pacific finds something for they hold 15%.

[Bella52]

I suspect its a selldown on anybody energy in case the greens get power.

[brucey09]

Snrs.
I was thinking nzo going down for lower oil and nz dollar up.

[digger]

I suspect its a selldown on anybody energy in case the greens get power.

To me this green grab pulling labour along may not be the central thing with the falling SP. Look at Tap in Aus. They too have fell about the same amount and early next year have a new well bring on production. You would think they would go up with that news but down it was. I put it down to uncertainty in the world markets and falling oil prices. This gold collapse has had a ripple effect. Also for now there is plenty of oil supply with economies not expected to grow much. And even if that turns out to be not true it is todays story.

[Balance]

Anyone playing "Catch the falling knives" on this one?

Directors have been playing falling knives for a while? But it's the fingers of others, figuratively speaking, getting cut off?

Pike River - shareholders paid with millions in write offs and miners with their lives.

Tunisia

Dry wells

Indonesia

[skid]

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?shva=1#inbox/13e41ef61b4a0f58

Is this the right site? if not where should it be???

[Queenstfarmer]

No news is good news?? Me thinking...that with all this ongoing work taking place after target depth reached....that this well is commercial. Get your thoughts in people. :-)

[digger]

No news is good news?? Me thinking...that with all this ongoing work taking place after target depth reached....that this well is commercial. Get your thoughts in people. :-)

Oh I would not jump the gun on that one. We have had long testing spells before and the result was no go.


I note last week NZO had a large seller but I put that down to the World gold price causing a need to sell rather than someone getting out before the fall. Tag on the Aus is just like that where thet too have a large seller and again i think that is the gold effect.

[the machine]

No news is good news?? Me thinking...that with all this ongoing work taking place after target depth reached....that this well is commercial. Get your thoughts in people. :-)

if the testing goes well beyond 20 days then that must be a good sign
if takes the full 35 days then even better

but if all done at 20 days then so so
M

[Banksie]

I see they have re-branded themselves as "The Explorers" http://www.nzog.com/ (at least the new website is a little more visually appealing then the old one).

[Balance]

I see they have re-branded themselves as "The Explorers" http://www.nzog.com/ (at least the new website is a little more visually appealing then the old one).

And they still list Tunisia as one of the international areas they are exploring in! What next?

Listing Pike River Coal as one of their other activities?

Tunisia is actually one of the best examples of how NZOG attempts to manipulate and hoodwink shareholders and investors through PR into believing they actually know what they are doing :

Nov 2012 - https://www.nzx.com/companies/NZO/announcements/229322 (40% increase in probable reserves in Tunisia - ain't we clever?)

Mar 2013 - https://www.nzx.com/companies/NZO/announcements/233669 (Tunisian investment written off as in 'expensed' - hidden in the interim report).

[digger]

[QUOTE=moosie_900;404361]Guess we're just as blind as ever now. Somehow I doubt NZO will put any real effort into going around the Indonesian authorities and treat this as a chance to black out and leave shareholders ill-informed yet again. I feel genuinely sorry for anyone holding this company!

NZO
01/05/2013 09:49
WAV/RULE

REL: 0949 HRS New Zealand Oil and Gas Limited

WAV/RULE: NZO: New Zealand Oil & Gas Limited - Waiver NZSX Rule 10.11.7

NZX Market Supervision Decision
New Zealand Oil & Gas Limited ("NZO") Application for a Waiver from NZSX
Listing Rule 10.11.7

23 April 2013

Background

1. NZO is a Mining Issuer Listed on the NZX Main Board.

2. NZO through its wholly-owned, Australian incorporated subsidiary, NZOG
Asia Pty Limited (NZO Asia) has entered into an unincorporated joint venture
to explore Kisaran PSC located in the Barumun trough in the northern part of
the Central Sumatra Basin, in onshore Sumatra, Indonesia.

3. The joint venturers, and their respective ownership interests in the
Kisaran PSC, are:

(a) NZO Asia, via its shareholding in Pacific Oil & Gas (North Sumatera) Ltd
(Pacific Oil) - 22.5%;

(b) Pacific Oil & Gas (Kisaran) Ltd (Operator) - 55%; and

(c) Pacific Oil & Gas (Sumatera) Inc. - 22.5%.

4. Recent drilling in the Kisaran PSC exploration block commenced in early
February 2013, with the drilling of the Parit Minyak-2 (PM-2) exploration
well.

5. NZO has, in compliance with its obligations under Listing Rule 10.11.5,
released weekly update announcements to the market on the status of the
exploratory drilling of PM-2.

6. On 19 April 2013, NZO announced that preparations are being made to begin
flow testing at the PM-2 and that based on wireline logging results, up to
four drill stem tests (DSTs) will be conducted within a gross interval of
7700 to 9000 feet and that depending on the types of fluids and rates of
flow, this testing program could take 20-35 days.

7. NZO has previously announced to the market that the Kisaran PSC joint
venturers intend to commence drilling a second exploration well, Parit
Minyak-3 (PM-3), immediately following the completion of exploration
operations at PM-2.

8. NZSX Listing Rule (Rule) 10.11.7 requires a Mining Issuer to announce,
within prescribed timeframes under that Rule, certain reports to the market
regarding flow testing operations.

Indonesian Oil Legislation Requirements

9. Indonesian law (referred to as the Indonesian Oil Legislation) restricts
the ability for NZO to make the disclosures required by Rule 10.11.7.

Moosie 900, Pray tell how you can feel sorry for anyone holding NZO when it gives the highest yield on the NZX. In less than 12 months I have received 9 cents dividend on a share valued by the market today at only 82 cents.What other share is offering that. Also I see no reason why that sort of dividend can not extend well into the future. My sympthies are for the market individuals that can not see this obvious fact and ignore this straight forward info. If I were not already overweight in NZO I would be buying now.


Todays release is to be expected when you go into other countries to do your drilling. That would apply to any company going overseas. So what does it mean. Two schools of thought on that one. Mine is that there is something their and that the govt of that country will decide on the release info ---not some partipicating company from elsewhere. That as I said before is to be expected. I see it as a positive sign as I do not believe this waiver is over nothing.
Now to Balance it means something entirely different. Probably something like we are well trained mushrooms now we are officially to be kept in the dark as a legal requirement and fed you know what. Hey I got that wrong---we are to be kept in the dark and fed nothing even worse.

[Balance]

Moosie 900, Pray tell how you can feel sorry for anyone holding NZO when it gives the highest yield on the NZX. In less than 12 months I have received 9 cents dividend on a share valued by the market today at only 82 cents.What other share is offering that. Also I see no reason why that sort of dividend can not extend well into the future. My sympthies are for the market individuals that can not see this obvious fact and ignore this straight forward info. If I were not already overweight in NZO I would be buying now.



Why?

Because the sp is at the same level as it was in 2004 - 9 LOST YEARS.

It is well down on where a lot of investors got in over the last 5 years and especially those who rushed to give their $180m to NZOG at $1.50 per share via the options.

They are down a cool 45% or $81m.

Where did that money go?

You guess it - misadventures 1, 2, 3 etc

[Balance]

I feel sorry for the shareholders because they have a management system that keeps them in the dark and is not up to par when compared to their junior partners and rivals. They have terrible PR and have silently written off one major project without really telling anyone. They are ambiguous in reporting and can be compared to RAK with promises and airy-fairy timelines and deadlines. There are still some people smarting from PRC, which was years ago and the SP has reflected that.

I feel sorry for shareholders because knowledge is power, and NZO does not give you that knowledge.

I think the operative word here is 'MUSHROOM'.

[Snow Leopard]

I think the operative word here is 'MUSHROOM'.

Did you know that the Indonesian for Mushroom is Cendawan (the c is a ch sound)?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Casa del Energia]

Did you know that the Indonesian for Mushroom is Cendawan (the c is a ch sound)?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

(I don't see this as being any less absurd and the average balance post -and its more fun - so here goes.. )

Spanish it is 'Hongo' (h is silent).

[Balance]

What Moose like to eat:

Trees and shrubs
Red elderberry
Moose wood
High bush cranberry
Alder
Sitka alder
Birch
Kenai birch
Bog birch
Dwarf arctic birch
Paper birch
Labrador-tea

Moose also prefer wild mushrooms.

Good one, Moosie.

Just be careful it is not one of the poisonous ones!

[Balance]

Or get hit by a Pontiac Grand Am on the NZO highway...

4481


That's what happens if you eat one of those hallucinogenic mushrooms - you start imaging things!

Kinda reminds me of Noggers with Pike River Coal - that was one hallucinogenic and fatally toxic mushroom served by NZOG directors.

Sad but true.

[arjay]

That's what happens if you eat one of those hallucinogenic mushrooms - you start imaging things!

Kinda reminds me of Noggers with Pike River Coal - that was one hallucinogenic and fatally toxic mushroom served by NZOG directors.

Sad but true.

A Pike is a kind of fish. What's Indonesian for Pike PT?

[troyvdh]

Balance ..I reckon your loathing of NZO is about equal to my loathing of TEL...Im not sure if this a bad thing or indeed a good thing.
Anyways I sold my 30 year something holding in NZO (down to 35k) a few weeks back...It does appear that I get a bit more flack than you...despite the fact that TEL would have to be a perfect example of an enterprise that is/was allowed/able to screw the NZ population for so long...in addition it does give me some satisfaction that I am indeed not alone in thinking this...

[neopoleII]

the company could of released this information in one sentence, instead of the speculation and head scratching going on now.

""the company intends to appraise the well via wirelog once teminal depth has been reached""
gee that was difficult. makes you wonder what their public relations officer is earning per annum?

now after several weeks we get a long disclosure announcement posted. NZO management knew of this before even signing up to the drill, yet they let the SHers hang and speculate for all this time while quietly sitting on their bottoms saying nothing about the disclosure process from a foreign country.
they knew all this, and sat on the information anyway.
now that there might be something "happening" but arnt allowed to disclose anything because of these rules they knew about we the SHers have to wait.
in the meantime those in the know get to buy shares or tell their mates..... completely protected from a foreign nations laws.
if you believe that the oil rig workers, their bosses from 3 companies, the boards from 3 companies and their friends and families and state officials in 3rd world countries and their friends and families can all keep their mouths shut to be compliant to 3rd world state laws then i guess us shareholders are being looked after fairly....... excuse me while i skull a tui........ or NZO should go into a trading halt as the rules governing NZO in the cowboy NZX are a bit tougher than 3rd world markets........ second tui consumed....... this is just a joke and NZO management knew this from day ONE.

if the well is to be dusted....... we are the last to know by a long shot.
if its commercial..... the SHers will still be the last to know.

and any breaches of rules if proved.... will mean diddly squat.
having said that...... i hope this well is successful, but it does seem that that there are two types of shareholders.
them and the rest.
in the meantime, there are small oilers making money in NZ exploration which NZO seems to snob.

[Balance]

Balance ..I reckon your loathing of NZO is about equal to my loathing of TEL...Im not sure if this a bad thing or indeed a good thing.
Anyways I sold my 30 year something holding in NZO (down to 35k) a few weeks back...It does appear that I get a bit more flack than you...despite the fact that TEL would have to be a perfect example of an enterprise that is/was allowed/able to screw the NZ population for so long...in addition it does give me some satisfaction that I am indeed not alone in thinking this...

I share your sentiments towards Telecom 100%.

Ran by the directors and managers for the benefit of the fat cats Americans and Fay Richwhites of the world.

Traitors to the best interest of New Zealanders.

Squanderers of wealth (blew themselves up twice in Australia - billions of dollars) and left NZ communication infrastructure in a state of disrepair.

Imagine how davanced NZ would be with our internet etc if the $3 billion squandered by Rod Deane and his puppets had been spent on upgrading NZ's infrastructure?

And for that, Rod Deane gets a knighthood and Teresa Gattung gets tens of millions of dollars in pay!

[troyvdh]

With all due respect Balance you have not expressed the true extent of how the NZ public...have been abused by TEL....for example...why are NZ's such great texters.......because phone calls are so expensive....

What is very provitable for TEL/VOD.....is....text messaging ?....well that really blew me away....

[neopoleII]

""fat cats Americans and Fay Richwhites""

please dont bring them into NZO discussions..... i'll get wasted on tui's.
what i really hate is those teenage movies where these "prickles" always get their just deserts.
it might happen overseas.....(( but not in kiwiland.... where prickles make 100's of millions and enjoy their lives...... always happens and keeps happening))
or 3rd world countries...... great place for NZO board to explore in.
sorry for my outburst..... tui taking over.

[Balance]

With all due respect Balance you have not expressed the true extent of how the NZ public...have been abused by TEL....for example...why are NZ's such great texters.......because phone calls are so expensive....

What is very provitable for TEL/VOD.....is....text messaging ?....well that really blew me away....

I was in Singapore last year and what blew me away was the fact that everyone used mobiles, even from their homes. My host told me that mobile calls are cheaper than landlines!

Then, I paid S$18 (NZ$17) for unlimited wireless superfast broadband for 5 days!

That is what NZ could have had if Rod Deane and his puppets had delivered - instead, they screwed New Zealanders to second world status.

$#@^%$ - that's what I think of them.

[Balance]

""fat cats Americans and Fay Richwhites""

please dont bring them into NZO discussions..... i'll get wasted on tui's.
what i really hate is those teenage movies where these "prickles" always get their just deserts.
it might happen overseas.....(( but not in kiwiland.... where prickles make 100's of millions and enjoy their lives...... always happens and keeps happening))
or 3rd world countries...... great place for NZO board to explore in.
sorry for my outburst..... tui taking over.

Took Helen Clark going to South Korea and becoming totally embarrassed at the state of NZ's information highway when she experienced the Korean's super highway for her to decide to sort out Telecom, female at the top or not.

"What", she exclaimed, "They can download a movie in 5 mins and it takes a whole night to do so in NZ and half the time, the file is corrupted because of disconnections?"

"What have Teresa and Deane been doing?"

"They have been taking turns screwing New Zealanders?"

The analogy used was that the Koreans had a 20 lane super information highway compared to NZ's single lane dirt track!

But at least there has been a clean out at Telecom while as NZOG still have some of the tired old faces and still treating shareholders like mushrooms.

[troyvdh]

Balance ...again you underestimate the issues at hand...you not appear to appreciate the gravity of this discussion...i.e. I have biked through Tibet/Nepal/turkey/Tanzania/Italy/Vietnam/Austria/Germany/Italy /Turkey / France/Cuba....well apart from Cuba perhaps cell phones are very prominent/commonly used......I doubt very much if any of the aforementioned countries...paid the boss $7m....its a funny old world

[Balance]

Balance ...again you underestimate the issues at hand...you not appear to appreciate the gravity of this discussion...i.e. I have biked through Tibet/Nepal/turkey/Tanzania/Italy/Vietnam/Austria/Germany/Italy /Turkey / France/Cuba....well apart from Cuba perhaps cell phones are very prominent/commonly used......I doubt very much if any of the aforementioned countries...paid the boss $7m....its a funny old world

I don't have a problem with pay as long as it's well earned.

Telecom and NZOG are both indicative of the rotten state of the corporate sector in NZ - salaries and bonuses bear no resemblance to performance, and worse still is that the directors and executives use consultants extensively at shareholders' costs to protect themselves from liabilities due to their incompetence.

Need we say more?

Still no apology from NZOG over Pike River Coal.

[J R Ewing]

Can you take this to the TEL thread please!

[arjay]

Strange discussion going on here. With Troyvdh vs Balance I wonder if we should be discussing ounces of gold?

[Balance]

Can you take this to the TEL thread please!

Learn a lesson from Telecom - it is possible to restore credibility but to do so, the old diseased wood must be cut out so the tree can be regenerated with new growth.

What has changed at NZOG?

Andrew Knight CEO has been there right throughout the Pike River disaster and the failed overseas investments.

[Balance]

now after several weeks we get a long disclosure announcement posted. NZO management knew of this before even signing up to the drill, yet they let the SHers hang and speculate for all this time while quietly sitting on their bottoms saying nothing about the disclosure process from a foreign country.
they knew all this, and sat on the information anyway.
now that there might be something "happening" but arnt allowed to disclose anything because of these rules they knew about we the SHers have to wait.
in the meantime those in the know get to buy shares or tell their mates..... completely protected from a foreign nations laws.
if you believe that the oil rig workers, their bosses from 3 companies, the boards from 3 companies and their friends and families and state officials in 3rd world countries and their friends and families can all keep their mouths shut to be compliant to 3rd world state laws then i guess us shareholders are being looked after fairly....... excuse me while i skull a tui........ or NZO should go into a trading halt as the rules governing NZO in the cowboy NZX are a bit tougher than 3rd world markets........ second tui consumed....... this is just a joke and NZO management knew this from day ONE.

if the well is to be dusted....... we are the last to know by a long shot.
if its commercial..... the SHers will still be the last to know.

and any breaches of rules if proved.... will mean diddly squat.
having said that...... i hope this well is successful, but it does seem that that there are two types of shareholders.
them and the rest.
in the meantime, there are small oilers making money in NZ exploration which NZO seems to snob.

It gets worse.

Wait and see what happens if there is indeed a commercial discovery.

I doubt the Indonesian partners are going to let NZOG keep too much of the upside.

[fabs]

Yes saasaaad state indeed. But Re: old faces some that are still there at least got nzo to a golden period about 8-10 years ago,the one that scipt just in time with bags full of loot was D/S.
He was in charge when just about all this nonsense started and was never taken to task for it on any forum, except when i early in the piece stated here, HE IS NO GOOD.
So as long as management and S/H let the co. get away with hiring INCOMPETENTS which seem to be only good as spin doctors, nzo will continue chasing its tail.

[the machine]

Naaah, that's the new policy of not attracting too much attention from pesky protesters while emphasising their mammal-friendly
passive monitoring image.
Maybe OXX need to learn something here - they are leaking real information....

OXX have leaked more info - the 2nd 3D is now completed - ahead of schedule and under budget

M

[sideline]

And now NZO is releasing information through its ASX listing from work OXX has done on its drilling, but not on the NZX where its shareholder base is.

UNBELIEVABLE!!! :t_down:

NZO has not released any info here (in keeping with their established policy) - looks more like an ASX malfunction to copy the OXX announcement under the NZO ticker (or maybe that's automatic, I think I've seen such cross-postings before where joint ventures are concerned?)

[sideline]

So, the Ozzies can get it right by screwing up and NZO can't even get its own info together???

They are probably still working on the map for the announcement - those big yellow blobs take time and effort to get it right.

[sideline]

The report finally turns up... 5 hours later than their junior partner. They have also cherry-picked all the information OXX gave earlier to the market and have made another terrible attempt at mapping.

Sideline, sadly you were actually right about that map joke!!!!!! :scared:

Any positivity I had about this company has been totally destroyed. Think we have a new dog of the NZX for 2013.

Well, I find nothing wrong with the map or the announcement. Does a more detailed map really help you as a potential investor??
Maybe the political climate in OZ is just different as far as oil & gas exploration goes and that explains the different style of presentation and level of detail. In NZ we seem to have to contend with obstruction and sabotage (remember the Lucy -nomen-est-omen- Lawless stunt in New Plymouth?), so maybe being careful with the dissemination of information is advised !!

[geezy]

i wanna take a major hit from this counter and throw all my money into HNZ

held since 2007

[the machine]

Well, I find nothing wrong with the map or the announcement. Does a more detailed map really help you as a potential investor??
Maybe the political climate in OZ is just different as far as oil & gas exploration goes and that explains the different style of presentation and level of detail. In NZ we seem to have to contend with obstruction and sabotage (remember the Lucy -nomen-est-omen- Lawless stunt in New Plymouth?), so maybe being careful with the dissemination of information is advised !!

having the reference line to an old well is important as far as I am concerned - nzo left this detail out

M

[BigBob]

Of course it doesn't really matter what they announce... If it is positive they are spinning and pumping the SP, if it is not there's an insider conspiracy and all holders are mushrooms...

I think they learned from Hochstetter and good on them for that....

[Banksie]

Maybe the political climate in OZ is just different as far as oil & gas exploration goes and that explains the different style of presentation and level of detail. In NZ we seem to have to contend with obstruction and sabotage (remember the Lucy -nomen-est-omen- Lawless stunt in New Plymouth?), so maybe being careful with the dissemination of information is advised !!

True comment. I think the following quote from the NZ announcement says it all:

NZOG adopted a Code of Conduct developed by the Department of Conservation for minimising acoustic disturbance to marine mammals. Passive acoustic monitoring equipment was used and four specialist observers aboard kept watch to ensure marine mammals weren't adversely affected during the survey.

There was no mention of the conservation impact at all in the OZ one.

[pietrade]

"I can guarantee you NZO doesn't have any Green party members on its shareholder list! "
You'd be surprised. How much betting money is behind your 'guarantee'? :-))

[neopoleII]

well im not a green party member...... and find them to be the anti christ of politics in NZ
but...... i am a hard core greeny.
every thing on our LSB is green originated and we live in our means.... but also realise that the modern world doesnt revolve around trading beans and corn.
the world needs oil full stop, extracting it can be done the old way or the new way........ at least NZO is trying the new way.

[neopoleII]

oh....... you mean those guys riding bicycles and growing herbs at home and praying to their energy crystals after a hard day of toil watching the herbs grow .
now im with you....... those guys hate pay 20cent KWH for power to light up their computers and grow lights.
and the fact most of them dont work.... and there fore have lots of time at home to use up power and pay big monthly power bills ....... no wonder they want to regulate the power industry....... who cares about those who pay for the infrastructure..... just give us cheap power!
lol
yup...... green folks a good folks........ green politicians and active members are mentally distorted.

[the machine]

thus far Indonesia looks very good for nzo - with only 1 of the 2 drills needed to CONFIRM commercial field

IMO if one can buy nzo under ad$1 come july 1st then they will be very lucky

M

ps I feel very lucky and nzo can have a bit of it
'
pps go with your instinct!!

[digger]

yes, interesting that it went back under NTA on the last run. looks like consolidation above 80 ongoing with major upside if the oil does flow in indonesia as tje market is already pricing in no oil. could be worth a shot...

n.b. the may board and pr department may be useless but doesn't mean ya can't short term it for capital gain and be as ruthles as them. noah fence!

Moosie I am not sure where your logic is coming from saying the NZOG PR department is useless. This Kisaran drill is in Indonesia not NZ,so NZO must play by the Indonesia rules. It is certainly encouraging that they must do so because if there were nothing there their would not be any pushing to be in the front of the que to release bad new.

Also lets remember that NZO was the first company to update prior released news for discussion on sharetrader. Initially this was helpful but down rampers with personal gruges against NZO soon found it an excellent platform to say whatever misinfo they liked and when challegened never reply. If any are here with long memories they will recall that it was me who got NZO to make comments on sharetrader in the first place. After several years of experience with the NZO PR man it became all to obvious that the original intention was being hijacked by grudgers and I did personally ask NZO to consider to withdraw from sharetrader. I note and you should two that NZOG is the only company to update us on sharetrader and in one year received the stock exchange conformation for being the best company in NZ for undating info to shareholders.But as I said it overall did not work. Remember only a good carpenter can make a door any dumb donkey can kick it down.

[Balance]

Moosie I am not sure where your logic is coming from saying the NZOG PR department is useless. This Kisaran drill is in Indonesia not NZ,so NZO must play by the Indonesia rules. It is certainly encouraging that they must do so because if there were nothing there their would not be any pushing to be in the front of the que to release bad new.

Also lets remember that NZO was the first company to update prior released news for discussion on sharetrader. Initially this was helpful but down rampers with personal gruges against NZO soon found it an excellent platform to say whatever misinfo they liked and when challegened never reply. If any are here with long memories they will recall that it was me who got NZO to make comments on sharetrader in the first place. After several years of experience with the NZO PR man it became all to obvious that the original intention was being hijacked by grudgers and I did personally ask NZO to consider to withdraw from sharetrader. I note and you should two that NZOG is the only company to update us on sharetrader and in one year received the stock exchange conformation for being the best company in NZ for undating info to shareholders.But as I said it overall did not work. Remember only a good carpenter can make a door any dumb donkey can kick it down.

Digger, who provided fictitious information on Pike River?

Who has been consistently right on Pike River when challenging NZOG?

Sure as hell weren't the directors and management of NZOG.

[Blendy]

:) If anyone would like the chance to talk to Andrew Knight, CEO of NZOG, he is speaking at a public breakfast at AUT next week. http://www.thebreakfastclub.org.nz/products/may-breakfast-event

[Mr Tommy]

:) If anyone would like the chance to talk to Andrew Knight, CEO of NZOG, he is speaking at a public breakfast at AUT next week. http://www.thebreakfastclub.org.nz/products/may-breakfast-event

Mmmmm, looks a nice breakfast, but no mushrooms to go with the bacon and eggs.

[arjay]

I'm with Pietrade in that I suspect those who engage mouth before brain would be surprised at how many NOGers are also Green supporters (not that some posters on this thread appear to know much factual about Green policies). Errrr..... on the other hand, such gentlemen appear very learned and as it happens I have in my possession the deeds to the Brooklyn Bridge and coul dmake them available for a very reasonable price......

[neopoleII]

(not that some posters on this thread appear to know much factual about Green policies)

here are some exerts from the green party polices on energy.
the link is the green party website.

hydro

Hydro provides the backbone of our current electricity generation system. The Green Party does not favour further large hydro plants because:

Our system is vulnerable to dry winters already and we need to diversify away from hydro, and
Rivers are important habitats for wildlife and highly valued for recreation such as fishing and kayaking. We need to protect wild rivers from further development.

coal

Not support any additional use of coal for energy in New Zealand.
Phase out fossil fuels, starting with coal which is the worst. No new coal mines will be consented .
Allow existing mines to run their course, so that coal mining phases out at the rate of workforce attrition, with the emphasis on thermal coal for power stations going first, and coking coal for steel-making later.
Not support any conversion of lignite or coal to other fuels or fertiliser.
Not support any investment in the technology of carbon capture and storage, though if it is successfully developed, we will encourage its use for process emissions in industries which cannot avoid them, such as cement and steel.
Design a mechanism to discourage export of coal when it is exported to a non Kyoto country during KP1, as export coal is outside the ETS.
Support coal paying full carbon costs

geothermal

Geothermal development for industrial process heat and electricity can be sustainable under some circumstances. It must be developed with care to ensure that natural thermal features are not disrupted,

Wave, tide and currents

New ways of capturing energy from the oceans with small modular turbines are being tested and show promise. However, turbines can be inappropriate in sensitive environments and can compromise local community values.

wind power

Care is needed in choosing sites for wind farms, in order to respect cultural values such as iconic views.

other points of note

Require Electricity companies who burn fossil fuels to purchase Kyoto compliant emission units and transfer these to government.
Not support any additional use of coal for energy in New Zealand.

Introducing a carbon charge on fossil fuels, and using the revenue to reduce income tax on the bottom band, for everyone.

and then this

The Green Party will:

Require energy retailers to buy or generate a proportion of their sales from renewable resources.
Help district and regional councils plan for wind farm sites.
Support a programme to install solar water heating panels on government and private buildings.
Investigate the potential of woody biomass, biofuels, and energy from waves, tides and currents.

so we will have from the greens party..... lots of little water turbines, little windmills, little solar collectors, and lots of power taxes.


so in the meantime..... we are told that we need to expand the ecomony and "create" jobs for the masses of unemployed and uneducated.
this will need energy......

yes..... i did cherry pick the statements above from the green party policy and some of their policies are good.
but the way they want to transform the energy market with what knowledge we have today and their goals of 10's of thousands of green jobs,
there seems to be a gap between reality and fact.
this is the green party politics...... green lifestyle is a bit more real.
the points i cherry picked are the ones hidden in the "good green stuff" they tell the public.

[arjay]

Neopole, the policy items you've copied and pasted appear to make reasonable sense. Why do you consider they were developed and supported by
'mentally distorted' people?

[neopoleII]

(not that some posters on this thread appear to know much factual about Green policies).
i only cherry picked a few points of policy in the energy field, im not going to cherry pick all the rest of their policies to deminstrate why i believe they are mentally distorted.
but from the ones i have picked why would a NZ political party want to stop manufacturing fertiliser in a strong agricultural country?

[arjay]

Fair points. To their credit though (and not withstanding some flakeyness in their social policies imo) the Greens are the only party to at least attempt to think beyond short term economic benefits and 3yr election cycles. Unfortunately most people (including the green-washed 'I compost' fraternity) still treat the economy as completely divorced from its environmental base and can't see past their need to maintain their material wellbeing (jobs, mortgages etc) to really understand what's going on. Unlike most commodities, electricity is life and death for many people (eg, pneumonia rates in the elderly don't go up when Air NZ raises its fares) so perhaps treating it differently is justified - especially at a moral level. Some fear that prices will go up under the lab-green model. If so, would the rate of increase be any more than the acceleration that neo-lib economic policies have already produced? If prices really do drop that would impact on the economics of gas-fired production and this is clearly a concern for NZO holders, so the views of some posters are understandable. Paradoxically though, the last (and next) recession has and will be the result of neo-lib economics so future drops in gas demand are just as likely to be generated from the opposit end of the political spectrum.

[neopoleII]

"Greens are the only party to at least attempt to think beyond short term economic benefits and 3yr election cycles"
i would agree more than disagree on that statement. my thinking is... is that they have great intentions for a harmonious life between the enviroment and the real world.
the problem is.... IMHO the knowledge and tech to do it on a national scale is not there yet,.... i applaud them for pushing the points of our enviroment, but where i call them mentally deluded is that they think that if they got into power today that they can pull it off .... with the end result being rather scary.
i am happy our ever for them to be MINOR co party to a strong governing party.
the labs are not strong and the greens are very articulate.... this scares me.
green policy for a nation is a good thing, just not too much too fast.
this has been interesting but its the NZO thread so i will leave it there.
cheers

[tim23]

Boring maybe but paying close to 10% gross with speculative upside.

[Billy Boy]

Always wondered why they got out !!
Now they are back in !!
BB :( ??

[Bella52]

they got out because the permit had hit the 10 yr limit and there was no option extend than to do the necessary work.

[Banksie]

Kan Tan IV expected to drill Matuku in September


A likely start date has been confirmed for drilling in the Matuku prospect in PEP 51906 off Taranaki where New Zealand Oil & Gas holds a 12.5 per cent interest.


The permit's operator, OMV, has advised that the semi-submersible rig Kan Tan IV is expected to begin drilling in mid-September. The well is expected to take 40 days to drill to a target depth of 4756 metres.


The operator has publicly estimated mean recoverable resource for the prospect at around 65 million barrels.


Participants in PEP 51906 are: OMV New Zealand (Operator) 65 per cent; Octanex 22.5 per cent; and New Zealand Oil & Gas 12.5 per cent. If Matuku-1 is successful, New Zealand Oil & Gas has an option to acquire a further 5 per cent of Octanex's share, which would equalise each company's interest at 17.5 per cent.

END

[Banksie]

... New Zealand Oil & Gas holds a 12.5 per cent interest ... recoverable resource for the prospect at around 65 million barrels

Any suggestions from the oil fundies on how I can calculate what this is worth to NZO?

[dsurf]

65M barrels * average oil price of $95 = = $6,175,000,000

12.5% ownership = $0.772B

17.5% ownership = $1.08B

If it hits dryness = $0 + whatever debt

;)

there could be few production costs involved & taxes which might have to come off the value

[Balance]

Any suggestions from the oil fundies on how I can calculate what this is worth to NZO?

Try 500 trillion m2 of gas that NZOG thought was the potential reserve in one of its exploration well.

Turn out to be hot methane gas from TR.

[the machine]

Octanex map of PEP51906 also includes Kakapo as a prospect - is this the same Kakapo per 100% NZO PEP51311?

M

[Banksie]

Try 500 trillion m2 of gas that NZOG thought was the potential reserve in one of its exploration well.

Turn out to be hot methane gas from TR.

I was more hoping someone could point me in a direction for figuring out cost of production - (unlike miners, oil companies do not seem to publish this information.)

Balance - while I understand your views on this stock - I have chosen this ticker to monitor and learn from, both the good and the bad, to get a better understanding of investing in oil exploration. The 65 million barrels was supposedly estimated by OMV, the largest listed manufacturing company in Austria (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMV). Are you saying that OMV are likely to have given an inflated estimate, or are NZOG misrepresenting the information they have been given?

[J R Ewing]

Try 500 trillion m2 of gas that NZOG thought was the potential reserve in one of its exploration well.

Turn out to be hot methane gas from TR.

I think you are referring to a deep gas prospect out on the edge of the continental shelf at Taranaki, the name of which I can't remember (something beginning with M?). In any case, NZO failed to secure farm in investment, so the prospect never met the risk/reward standard for drilling and was dropped. That doesn't mean that the gas isn't there - it was never drilled. And you seem to be quite capable of exaggerating the size of the prospect yourself - it is big but not 500 trillion m3!

[sideline]

Try 500 trillion m2 of gas that NZOG thought was the potential reserve in one of its exploration well.

Turn out to be hot methane gas from TR.

J R Ewing, re [ - it is big but not 500 trillion m3! ]:
As you can see above balance measures his gas in m2 so obviously he has managed to flatten it out into a very thin sheet!

[J R Ewing]

I remember now, it was Mangatoa and it was 3 trillion cubic FEET!

[Balance]

J R Ewing, re [ - it is big but not 500 trillion m3! ]:
As you can see above balance measures his gas in m2 so obviously he has managed to flatten it out into a very thin sheet!

:) :) :)

Good one!

[the machine]

increased volume today - first 10 trades over 500,000 shares - that is probably 10 times higher than average

no news from Indonesia [released to market] seems like good news for a change

info leakage from the drill may account for higher volume
M

[fabs]

increased volume today - first 10 trades over 500,000 shares - that is probably 10 times higher than average

no news from Indonesia [released to market] seems like good news for a change

info leakage from the drill may account for higher volume
M

NOTHING MUCH UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT;
VOLUME FROM W/E 22/02/13- W/E 17/05/13 ABOUT 20.5 MILLION FROM LOW-HIGHEST
900K-2,900Ks P/W, AVERAGE AROUND 1.5MILLION PER WEEK,
SO THIS WEEK TREKKING TOWARDS THAT AT THE MOMENT.
Price realistically around 80-85 cents with a degree of inbuilt expectations.
All wise held the few that unless they strike a gusher that is where it will languish.

[boysy]

Worth noting PPP has advised the market the rig to drill Block 121 in vietnam targeting 150 MMBL PPP share 15% is expected to start drilling in the first week of June.

[the machine]

Worth noting PPP has advised the market the rig to drill Block 121 in vietnam targeting 150 MMBL PPP share 15% is expected to start drilling in the first week of June.

should ppp be successful with this drill, the sp should be back above what nzo paid for their 14.95%- noting the 2 upcoming tui drills - are we poised to see a 2nd attempt by nzo to take out ppp?

M

[Mr Tommy]

Flow testing in indonesia started 30 April, its now 29 days into the 20-35 day test period. Should know something any day I guess.

[the machine]

Flow testing in indonesia started 30 April, its now 29 days into the 20-35 day test period. Should know something any day I guess.

I was very keen for the testing to extend well beyond the 20 day minimum - logic being the longer it takes the more oil/gas there is

murphy's law probably dictates being wrapped up on a weekend

M

[digger]

Flow testing in indonesia started 30 April, its now 29 days into the 20-35 day test period. Should know something any day I guess.


You can be sure I am watching that one as well. The dread news is that a long weekend is coming up and bad news is always released just as the long weekend begins. Most CEO's seem to think that sharemarket investers can digest that for two days max and by the third day all is forgotten. Naturally I hope I am wrong but I do hate these long weekends when waiting for drilling news.
I do not know what to make of the considerable time taken. It sure shows that something is there but it does not take a month to know that it is a top winner. But it could still be of value and the Indonesian are holding up the results as the govt their might control the news.
Back to waiting.

[neopoleII]

"A report shall be issued on the day that:

(a) a decision to flow test an interval of the well is made, advising of the
decision and the depth and gross interval to be tested; and

(b) flow test operations commence, advising of such; and

(c) hydrocarbons are flowing to surface.

i find this last line a bit of a worry.... 29 days in and nothing on the surface?
maybe i read the release wrong.
it not much fun waiting.... drill and thrill totally absent.

[Bella52]

"A report shall be issued on the day that:

(a) a decision to flow test an interval of the well is made, advising of the
decision and the depth and gross interval to be tested; and

(b) flow test operations commence, advising of such; and

(c) hydrocarbons are flowing to surface.

i find this last line a bit of a worry.... 29 days in and nothing on the surface?
maybe i read the release wrong.
it not much fun waiting.... drill and thrill totally absent.


dont forget they had to get the Wavier from the NZX to give them time to get approval from the Indonesian regulator.

[J R Ewing]

I suspect we have drilled yet another duster!
I think if the drill had been a success, someone in Indonesia would know about it and be buying NZO at current prices.

[Queenstfarmer]

Well its not like Beverly hillbillies where it come gushing out of the ground and the few people doing the math on the flow tests would get the chop if they were to leak information?

[Mr Tommy]

I suspect we have drilled yet another duster!
I think if the drill had been a success, someone in Indonesia would know about it and be buying NZO at current prices.

In last 2 weeks shareprice has dropped from 88 to 81.
We get 'ongoing disclosure notices' for all the shares theyre giving themselves thru the ESOP, but nothing important like news about Kisaran.

[Balance]

Well its not like Beverly hillbillies where it come gushing out of the ground and the few people doing the math on the flow tests would get the chop if they were to leak information?

Get the chop?

Have you ever dealt in listed oil companies in Asia? Their share prices are extremely predictive of whether there's a strike or not.

[skid]

PPPs SP still steady ATM...

[J R Ewing]

Get the chop?

Have you ever dealt in listed oil companies in Asia? Their share prices are extremely predictive of whether there's a strike or not.

Precisely. The market is now factoring in a dry Kisaran. We are just waiting on the formality of a market announcement IMO.

[boysy]

PPP has no interest in the indonesian drill they are just about to spud a wildcat in norther vietnam however

[the machine]

next week surely there will be either some news about Indonesia re test results or moving to next drill

M

[hilskin]

Announcement:

Flow testing continues at Kisaran
Flow testing is continuing at the Parit Minyak-2 (PM-2) exploration well, located in the
Kisaran PSC in onshore Sumatra, Indonesia.
Flow testing in the well began on 29 April. Three drill stem tests (DSTs) have been
conducted to date with a fourth underway. Test results have been encouraging to date.
Stimulation of one of the tested intervals is being planned for sometime in the next month
The rig onsite is expected to be relocated to a second drill site at Parit Minyak-3 before the
end of June.
New Zealand Oil & Gas has a waiver from the NZX in relation to certain disclosures about
progress in testing because announcements can only be made with approval from the
Indonesian regulator.
A further announcement is anticipated when testing is complete.
New Zealand Oil & Gas Ltd has a 22.5% stake in the joint venture through the
share ownership of its subsidiary NZOG Asia Pty Ltd in Pacific Oil & Gas (North
Sumatera) Ltd.
The Kisaran Joint Venture partners are Pacific Oil & Gas (Kisaran) Ltd (55 per cent and
operator) and Pacific Oil & Gas (Sumatera) Inc (22.5 per cent).

[arjay]

Announcement:

Flow testing continues
.


I love those three little words, especially 'flow' - such a 'doing' verb.

[Banksie]

Test results have been encouraging to date

I am not sure I understand why they could not elaborate on this. Are they not getting clearance from the Indonesian regulator or are they not seeking clearance from them?

[Slowlearna]

I like this bit


Announcement:

Test results have been encouraging to date.

[Billy Boy]

[/COLOR]

I am not sure I understand why they could not elaborate on this. Are they not getting clearance from the Indonesian regulator or are they not seeking clearance from them?
.:)
Probably Both !!
BB

[skid]

Been a while since someone around here struck a bit of the sweet stuff--could this be it?

[blockhead]

It would seem to me a "responsible Director" could not allow something along the lines of, "Test results have been encouraging to date" without having good reason to make such a statement.

SP suggests others think the same

[digger]

Been a while since someone around here struck a bit of the sweet stuff--could this be it?

Must be good as Balance would be the first to say otherwise and he is completely silence of late.

We still have to wait for the final report and then what of the next drill that was sure to follow if Kisaran was successful. I personally want to know about the extra deeper drill this time and if it was a good as hoped. Still as stated above this is the first taste of success since Pateke,so we will want it to stay that way---apart from Balance that is.

[neopoleII]

""Stimulation of one of the tested intervals is being planned for sometime in the next month""
ok......... what does this mean?
fracking?. if so....... heavy oil stuck in solid material?
spent a few hours reading about Indonesia oil strikes and this permit is not far from the biggest well deposit in Indonesia, but this current one was drilled by chevron and abandoned some time ago.
so its all not good news.
there is however on the ozzie forum a thread about AWE drilling in indo and struck big and are looking at selling 50%....... this could be a worthwhile investment for NZO as it is totally proven.
it also reads to me that the indo government takes 1/2 of everything..... which is not mentioned by NZO ....... please read the awe release as it seems that all proven oil is not the total reward.

[Bella52]

nothing new there, NZOG had told us it was an undeveloped discovery. ie someone discovered it and didnt develop it presumably because it was uneconomic. they had always said they needed to try to stimulate and flow test to see if it would be economic.

[the machine]

the appraisal drill is looking very good - even with scant info being able to be released

key milestones
going to expense of casing
taking such a long time to flow test
"encouraging speak by nzo"
1 zone to be stimulated

M

[Mr Tommy]

The new website has no details about Kisaran like how big it could be. Anyone know what we are looking at potentially?

[arjay]

the appraisal drill is looking very good - even with scant info being able to be released

key milestones
going to expense of casing
taking such a long time to flow test
"encouraging speak by nzo"
1 zone to be stimulated

M

The surest sign it has been successful is that Balance has not appeared. Either that or he has been negligent.

[sideline]

The new website has no details about Kisaran like how big it could be. Anyone know what we are looking at potentially?

(about this drill):
....................
The Parit Minyak Field has a potential resource range of 16 MMBO to 33 MMBO within the Pematang-8 and Pematang-4 sandstones based on the Parit Minyak-1 control well and existing seismic.
................
(about the Kisaran PSC)
..............
Over nineteen prospects and leads have been identified with gross unrisked prospective resources of more than 300 MMBOE. The primary objectives of the identified leads are Sihapas and Pematang sandstones at depths between 1500 and 3500 m.

[fish]

(about this drill):
....................
The Parit Minyak Field has a potential resource range of 16 MMBO to 33 MMBO within the Pematang-8 and Pematang-4 sandstones based on the Parit Minyak-1 control well and existing seismic.
................
(about the Kisaran PSC)

..............
Over nineteen prospects and leads have been identified with gross unrisked prospective resources of more than 300 MMBOE. The primary objectives of the identified leads are Sihapas and Pematang sandstones at depths between 1500 and 3500 m.

If that's recoverable it means over a $1 a share -or is my maths wrong ?

[sideline]

If that's recoverable it means over a $1 a share -or is my maths wrong ?

TUI was initially estimated to be 26.8 MMBO so this could be as big as TUI - only this
time NZO has 22.5% instead of 12.5%.
If we just assume the middle of the estimates it adds maybe 6 MMBO of reserves for NZO.
Current sales value of that would be approx 600m USD or 750m NZD, so minus royalties and
production costs NZ$1 per share of added value could be in the ballpark.

[Snow Leopard]

People.

If you are going to try valuing the worth of any oil extraction then you are going to need to try and understand how the regime works in Indonesia.

So read the relevant parts (Section III) of this Guide (http://www.pwc.com/id/en/publications/assets/oil-and-gas-guide_2012.pdf) from PWC.

Then you may be able to come up with more realistic figures.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[fabs]

Lets not speculate on what may be causing the S/P to go below 70cents on a dry well, or God knows where it may go if it is a gusher.
Rather stick to the olde DO-NCYCHBTH!!!!!!

[blockhead]

Don't think we can read too much into that transaction Moosie.

A few buyers starting to line up @ 86c I see

[Billy Boy]

Price
Volume
Time
Cond


86
2,500
11:50
SP


86
2,000
11:23
SP


86
1,000
11:22



86
20,000
11:21
SP


86
500
11:00
SP


86
4,000
11:00
SP


86
500
10:14



.
Not a big volume but most "Off market or Special"
Good sign or not ???

[blockhead]

And a parcel of 1.2mil shares, just after lunch, simmering interest showing

[Billy Boy]

And a parcel of 1.2mil shares, just after lunch, simmering interest showing
Yep.... wait till we see those big "ÏN" next to the trades !!!
BTW Blocky !!! get a new horse !!!
BB:)

[Bixbite]

Probably just the brokerages doing in-house trading at those levels. No need to worry (even though it is NZO!)


"No need to worry (even though it is NZO!)"

Of course, with a net cash $160,000,000 in the company, why NZO needs to worry!!! The interest income is well covering Mr Andrew Knight's salary for NNNNNN years even if he does nothing.

[fabs]

Is it a case of smart money buying or quitting????

[Mr Tommy]

Is it a case of smart money buying or quitting????

Utilico became a SSH in June last year, price was around mid 70s. They have just gone from holding 25m shares to 3m.
In a year they have received a 6c and 3c imputed dividend, plus a shareprice now in mid 80s, so they have made a tidy return in 12 months.

[Billy Boy]

Is it a case of smart money buying or quitting????
Buying......
BB:)

[neopoleII]

some big share volumes happening lately.
no information for NZO shareholders.
way passed the "30 day" appraisal.
the other joint venture partners are private equity companies.
it seems to me that something has sprung a leak.
but at least NZO is safe in the knowledge that they have dispensation from the NZX to carry on, on nog time while others cash in or out on something we have no idea about.
personally..... i think NZO as the only partner in this drill that is publicly listed should be placed into trading halt.
that would force management to at least explain the delay, and stop millions of shares changing hands with "no" information.

[Mr Tommy]

some big share volumes happening lately.
.

From the number of shares (3,248,878) traded today after 5pm it was the last of Utilicos lot. See their last SSH notice.


http://stocknessmonster.com/ gives you the trade details. Volume 3,248,878. Price was 85.9 c at 5:07pm

[neopoleII]

oh i see.
thanks for that.

[digger]

From the number of shares (3,248,878) traded today after 5pm it was the last of Utilicos lot. See their last SSH notice.


http://stocknessmonster.com/ gives you the trade details. Volume 3,248,878. Price was 85.9 c at 5:07pm

See ASX for details after closing tonight.
Zeta Resources of Hamilton Bermuda have just become substantial holders with 8.00%.

[the machine]

with the number of drills lined up and aggressive 3D then nzo set for some exciting times
none of the drills are true wildcat though, rather more like infill in a known oil bearing basin - this should improve the chances of success, although one would hesitate to say 150% chance of success

M

[neopoleII]

10 / 12 days left till the rig goes to the next drill, 45 odd days into the current drill, and no news no updates, no info and all indorsed by the nzx.
NZO must love this ability to disclose ziltch!!!

they could of said......... " we are still testing the well",
instead we get the disclosure of serious breach of business law from a 3rd world country IF nzo want to keep its sh'ers informed.

roll on july 1 for a real update or a formal question from the NZX

this sort of "silent" drilling is not ethical, but it seems to suit the board of NZO perfectly.
no wonder the big money doesnt support NZO and it shows in its sp.
totally unlaughable

[Queenstfarmer]

Totally agree neo...beyond a fricken joke now. Perhaps the knights head at the top of the table needs to roll for shareholders to be given an incy wincy bit of respect in future. With Andrew Knight having business interests elswhere perhaps its time this company had a leader that had eyes for only NZO's 8 ball.

[fabs]

I can't believe there are still some on here that believe in NZO's management...

Perhaps DIGGER could trow some light on that.

[the machine]

10 / 12 days left till the rig goes to the next drill, 45 odd days into the current drill, and no news no updates, no info and all indorsed by the nzx.
NZO must love this ability to disclose ziltch!!!

they could of said......... " we are still testing the well",
instead we get the disclosure of serious breach of business law from a 3rd world country IF nzo want to keep its sh'ers informed.

roll on july 1 for a real update or a formal question from the NZX

this sort of "silent" drilling is not ethical, but it seems to suit the board of NZO perfectly.
no wonder the big money doesnt support NZO and it shows in its sp.
totally unlaughable

neoploe11, lets just think what could happen if nzo issued any statement outside the restrictions placed on them

take it one step further - say we have confirmed a zillion barrels etc - that should make shareholders happy and sp jumps - until the permit is stripped from nzo and they do not get their [our] usd6m back because violated the rules

nzo were aware of the Indonesian rules when they invested their and it is nzo's responsibility to abide by them

M

[neopoleII]

a statement such as ::
"the current delays in a full disclosure are due in part to our disclosure clause with the NZX and Ido authorities and extended testing on the well"
this would not be breaking any disclosure rules.

currently :: we know that they are due to start the second well before the end of June.
they also said that a disclosure would be made if oil reaches the surface::
how many days does it take to pull a rig apart and shift it and set up again? 3-4-5 days??
maybe a statement that says the second drill has been delayed......


"A report shall be issued on the day that:

(a) a decision to flow test an interval of the well is made, advising of the
decision and the depth and gross interval to be tested; and

(b) flow test operations commence, advising of such; and

(c) hydrocarbons are flowing to surface.

currently.... we are left in the dark and the stock is trading on zero info.
at least...... there seems to be no news leaks to a select few...... that is the only good news.

im off to have a snikkers bar......
and enjoy my weekend......

[digger]

neoploe11, lets just think what could happen if nzo issued any statement outside the restrictions placed on them

take it one step further - say we have confirmed a zillion barrels etc - that should make shareholders happy and sp jumps - until the permit is stripped from nzo and they do not get their [our] usd6m back because violated the rules

nzo were aware of the Indonesian rules when they invested their and it is nzo's responsibility to abide by them

M

The Machine talk so far is the only post worth replying to. The bit about losing the permit if a big find has been a concern to me 5 seconds after we were told that we were drilling outside NZ. NZO would indeed show poor management if it released unauthorised info in definance of the country rules it is dealing with. Top marks to the management for keeping our best interest in mind regardless of some posters that really do not understand the game. If you go back some years I said all this then. We have to play by there rules end of story.

[Queenstfarmer]

Thank you digger. ..always good to get a bit of discussion going again.

[arjay]

The Machine talk so far is the only post worth replying to. The bit about losing the permit if a big find has been a concern to me 5 seconds after we were told that we were drilling outside NZ. NZO would indeed show poor management if it released unauthorised info in definance of the country rules it is dealing with. Top marks to the management for keeping our best interest in mind regardless of some posters that really do not understand the game. If you go back some years I said all this then. We have to play by there rules end of story.

Nevertheless, it would be good PR for NZO to make the occassional statement that things are going as planned. NZO should hire a PR person IMO. I miss the days when BWR would drop in and keep posters on-track.

[fabs]

Sadly, if it has not been noticed yet already Arjay we have some time ago entered the AGE of DIS-MIS and no Information, lets learn to live with it.
CHEERS

[Sideshow Bob]

Share price probably suffering with lack of drilling updates and also general market malaise, but would have thought (hoped) had shown a bit more strength, given the USD against the Kiwi tumbling back from 0.83-0.84 to 0.776 today.

Not sure of what they are holding now, as at the end of the last financial year they were holding $57.1m USD - but that is almost a year ago (incidentally the dollar was 0.801 at this date).

[Balance]

Anyone bother checking up on other Oilers drilling in Indonesia about so called regulations and restrictions pertaining to disclosures of discoveries?

Could be new rules imposed after the infamous Bre-X incident.

[Balance]

Anyone bother checking up on other Oilers drilling in Indonesia about so called regulations and restrictions pertaining to disclosures of discoveries?

Could be new rules imposed after the infamous Bre-X incident.

As nobody bothered to check, I did.

The Australian resources analyst I talked to had a good chuckle about the posters and shareholders supporting NZOG.

[Queenstfarmer]

The Machine talk so far is the only post worth replying to. The bit about losing the permit if a big find has been a concern to me 5 seconds after we were told that we were drilling outside NZ. NZO would indeed show poor management if it released unauthorised info in definance of the country rules it is dealing with. Top marks to the management for keeping our best interest in mind regardless of some posters that really do not understand the game. If you go back some years I said all this then. We have to play by there rules end of story.
Really...really digger?? Operations ongoing in Indonesia and come Monday it will be a day short of four weeks since we've had any news. A weekly update is not a lot to expect??

[Banksie]

The Australian resources analyst I talked to had a good chuckle about the posters and shareholders supporting NZOG.

Apart from chuckling did he have any interesting info to impart regarding the regulations?

[Balance]

Apart from chuckling did he have any interesting info to impart regarding the regulations?

No point shining sunlight on mushrooms - they don't like it.

In fact, they change color and then, implode.

Notice how quiet those supporters of NZOG are when the hard questions get asked?

[digger]

As nobody bothered to check, I did.

The Australian resources analyst I talked to had a good chuckle about the posters and shareholders supporting NZOG.


Which analyst was that. In about 95% of cases you do not chuckle at what analysts have to say but react somewhere between crying and a full bore laugh---that is if it is worth reacting at all.

I certainly do not know why the info is held but if it is in my interest to hold it then so be it. Strange that I am now the one supporting the coarse we are on when in the very first instance I was the sole load voice asking if we really should be there playing by their rules.
In the back of my mind I suspect the well is a big success and the Indonesian are hoping we will make some sort of mistake so they can justify pushing us out of our 22%. Certainly if it were a duster we would have long ago heard all about it. Guess now we will just have to read between the non existing lines and conclude that when the next drill starts the last one must have been a success to justify the next one.

From a family member I have heard a lot about the strange business decisions made by Indonesia and if it is as 1/100 as bad here in the oil drilling as it is in the aviation world then we should expect nothing else and should have been well aware of this way of doing business before we started.
Balance thanks for that story about the Bre-X incident. I googled it and it made interesting reading. Knew only minor details about it beforehand. It could be having some effect on our oil drilling especially if it is a big success but I can only wildly guess at what it might be.

[the machine]

seems nzo had a 5% jump today with some buying right at the end - news leakage maybe

roll on Monday

M

[Balance]

seems nzo had a 5% jump today with some buying right at the end - news leakage maybe

roll on Monday

M

Window dressing time - 30th June.

[the machine]

Window dressing time - 30th June.

looks like a few people have been buying lots of 2c curtins to add to Fridays window dressing

no news re Indonesia though

m

[digger]

looks like a few people have been buying lots of 2c curtins to add to Fridays window dressing

no news re Indonesia though

m


Actually I would say there is new from Indonesia. The other day Balance brought to our attention the Bre-X incident. Googles it for a great read. But I do not think that is the main driver here. From me the theory goes like this.
Indonesia use to be an oil exporter and now is an importer. During the hay days of exporting the govt took the easy option[do they not all] and introduced hugh gas subsidies for the population. Today those subsidies are crippling the economy and Indonesia has been told by the IMF to act against them. So right now Indonesia is bringing in a quota scheme for gas the first of past exporters to do so I believe.
So my theory of why info is being held up is that the Govt wants this quota scheme up and running before it announces any oil finds that the population could otherwise use against the scheme and call for BAU. If you think about it the last thing Indonesia needs now is any excuse the entrench gas prices well below world levels.
Well that is my take anyways for what it is worth.
Cheers.

[Snow Leopard]

Actually I would say there is new from Indonesia. The other day Balance brought to our attention the Bre-X incident. Googles it for a great read. But I do not think that is the main driver here. From me the theory goes like this.
Indonesia use to be an oil exporter and now is an importer. During the hay days of exporting the govt took the easy option[do they not all] and introduced hugh gas subsidies for the population. Today those subsidies are crippling the economy and Indonesia has been told by the IMF to act against them. So right now Indonesia is bringing in a quota scheme for gas the first of past exporters to do so I believe.
So my theory of why info is being held up is that the Govt wants this quota scheme up and running before it announces any oil finds that the population could otherwise use against the scheme and call for BAU. If you think about it the last thing Indonesia needs now is any excuse the entrench gas prices well below world levels.
Well that is my take anyways for what it is worth.
Cheers.

That is not a theory, that is possibly an hypothesis but leaning towards speculation.
I guess you did not follow the link in the post (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5112-NZ-Oil-amp-Gas-(NZO)&p=410624&viewfull=1#post410624) I wrote about the Indonesian Oil & Gas Regime.
The price of a litre of petrol went up from 4,500Rp to 6,500Rp less than two weeks ago when they reduced the subsidy.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[fish]

That is not a theory, that is possibly an hypothesis but leaning towards speculation.
I guess you did not follow the link in the post (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5112-NZ-Oil-amp-Gas-(NZO)&p=410624&viewfull=1#post410624) I wrote about the Indonesian Oil & Gas Regime.
The price of a litre of petrol went up from 4,500Rp to 6,500Rp less than two weeks ago when they reduced the subsidy.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

I will speculate and hope that news will be forthcoming tomorrow

[the machine]

That is not a theory, that is possibly an hypothesis but leaning towards speculation.
I guess you did not follow the link in the post (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5112-NZ-Oil-amp-Gas-(NZO)&p=410624&viewfull=1#post410624) I wrote about the Indonesian Oil & Gas Regime.
The price of a litre of petrol went up from 4,500Rp to 6,500Rp less than two weeks ago when they reduced the subsidy.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

one would expect Indonesia will be wanting to increase production on one hand, but possibly keep a lid on announcing increased production with the other - or until at least the dust settles from the hike in prices

it would be ironic if nzo spud thee next hole but no more info about the first hole

M

[Snow Leopard]

Let us imagine that an announcement comes out that says there is X barrels of recoverable oil down this hole.
How much will be NZO's share?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[janner]

X-Y-Z

UOTE=Paper Tiger;414731]Let us imagine that an announcement comes out that says there is X barrels of recoverable oil down this hole.
How much will be NZO's share?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger[/QUOTE]

[the machine]

Let us imagine that an announcement comes out that says there is X barrels of recoverable oil down this hole.
How much will be NZO's share?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

starts @ 22.5% but what it ends up with is anyones guess - unlikely to be more though, unless any of the partners are short of cash

M

[Snow Leopard]

starts @ 22.5% but what it ends up with is anyones guess - unlikely to be more though, unless any of the partners are short of cash

M
There will almost certainly be a Production Sharing Contract (PSC) where the oil produced is divided up between JV and the Indonesian state:
The state will take a percentage of the total production (First Tranche Production, say 10%);
Then the JV will be allowed oil worth allowable deductions (cost of production, amortization of investment expenses, etc);
Then the remaining 'profit' oil will be split, with the state taking the majority.

Additionally there will probably be an obligation (Direct Market Obligation) to sell some of the JV's oil to the state, at a price which may be below the world market price.

I am unsure of the [Indonesian] tax situation after that but it is possible that most/all of the liability has then been met.

Best Wishes

[arjay]

can anyone provide a link to the media reports?

[boysy]

http://www.nido.com.au/IRM/Company/ShowPage.aspx/PDFs/1429-46767421/GoodOilConferencePresentation

Page 15 might be a good time to point out Indonesia has the least attractive fiscal terms in Asia

[fabs]

Lets hope this pans out less fishy than all this sounds, even with a best case scenario.

[neopoleII]

i have kept quite since a senior member recons my posts are worthless and have no knowledge of the "game"
but then if you own a sizable percentage of the company you would be expected to tow the company line and support that line no matter what.

so here we are and the drill rig is being shifted, and management is talking about certain media and 100 barrels.... i thought this forum was the most active regarding information about what is happening...... so its strange with all this "play the game properly" that they mention this 100 barrel stuff from undisclosed "media" reports, and suggest that they are happy with the results so far....... but then its still 3 months away from fracture stimulation.... so what have they been doing?
i posted some time ago that the original driller abandoned the well, then posted that its probably tar sands quality...... now we have the current drillers saying this and that and still no formal results but saying after a month of no information that "stimulation" wont happen for another 3 months.
my take on this is ..... they are having trouble sucking tar sands through a 2km long pipe.
yes there might be lots of it....... but so far they are scratching their heads on how to get the 20 odd mmbl of thick goop to the surface.
re chevron walking away.

regarding paper tigers posts...... if folks read his links they will learn that the indo government is quite greedy.
here is a link,

indonesia's fiscal terms rank amongst the most severe across the world with the government's 86% take significantly higher than the global norm of 59%

http://www.platts.com/latest-news/oil/Jakarta/Indonesia-to-limit-oil-gas-block-offers-to-draw-27104057

there is huge potential in the exploration that NZO is chasing, but being a minnow in the exploration world and its management and board having a history of elephant chasing with small capital and shareholder support .....(re pike) it seems that this venture could prove to a zero win game at the expense of shareholders who over the last 5 years have been punished.
my opinion is that once the board plays the game in its own league and makes good and steady progress to be able to spend a portion of "profits" on elephant hunting, NZO is doomed to sit on sub $1.50 conversion rates where most of its current capital came from...... at the expense of the investors it encouraged to invest into it.

in my opinion all this stinks.
and the stock is trading on an open exchange with little or no information regarding it current drilling program with advice from the board that Indonesia is the major prospect for the next several years.

what is happening here?
last ditch effort to find an elephant no matter what the cost or political issues?
in this respect that poster is correct....... he did warn us about the potential problems of drilling in countries like this.
anyway..... time to watch ppp and its likely potential.

[stanace]

i have kept quite since a senior member recons my posts are worthless and have no knowledge of the "game"
but then if you own a sizable percentage of the company you would be expected to tow the company line and support that line no matter what.

so here we are and the drill rig is being shifted, and management is talking about certain media and 100 barrels.... i thought this forum was the most active regarding information about what is happening...... so its strange with all this "play the game properly" that they mention this 100 barrel stuff from undisclosed "media" reports, and suggest that they are happy with the results so far....... but then its still 3 months away from fracture stimulation.... so what have they been doing?
i posted some time ago that the original driller abandoned the well, then posted that its probably tar sands quality...... now we have the current drillers saying this and that and still no formal results but saying after a month of no information that "stimulation" wont happen for another 3 months.
my take on this is ..... they are having trouble sucking tar sands through a 2km long pipe.
yes there might be lots of it....... but so far they are scratching their heads on how to get the 20 odd mmbl of thick goop to the surface.
re chevron walking away.

regarding paper tigers posts...... if folks read his links they will learn that the indo government is quite greedy.
here is a link,

indonesia's fiscal terms rank amongst the most severe across the world with the government's 86% take significantly higher than the global norm of 59%

http://www.platts.com/latest-news/oil/Jakarta/Indonesia-to-limit-oil-gas-block-offers-to-draw-27104057

there is huge potential in the exploration that NZO is chasing, but being a minnow in the exploration world and its management and board having a history of elephant chasing with small capital and shareholder support .....(re pike) it seems that this venture could prove to a zero win game at the expense of shareholders who over the last 5 years have been punished.
my opinion is that once the board plays the game in its own league and makes good and steady progress to be able to spend a portion of "profits" on elephant hunting, NZO is doomed to sit on sub $1.50 conversion rates where most of its current capital came from...... at the expense of the investors it encouraged to invest into it.

in my opinion all this stinks.
and the stock is trading on an open exchange with little or no information regarding it current drilling program with advice from the board that Indonesia is the major prospect for the next several years.

what is happening here?
last ditch effort to find an elephant no matter what the cost or political issues?
in this respect that poster is correct....... he did warn us about the potential problems of drilling in countries like this.
anyway..... time to watch ppp and its likely potential.

But does not NZO own 15% of PPP? And did NZO not receive 6c per PPP share? and not distribute it. Maybe I'm confused, if so sorry.

[Queenstfarmer]

NZO is well into its third decade of being company that's supposed to be in oil exploration. It is time they became one instead of being a wannabe???

[Balance]

NZO is well into its third decade of being company that's supposed to be in oil exploration. It is time they became one instead of being a wannabe???

The anticipation is what keeps the punters coming back - and the directors in clover.

[notie]

The anticipation is what keeps the punters coming back - and the directors in clover.

Too true Balance and this company continues to string its investors along but not actually do much. They now call themselves the explorers from New Zealand, and I'm sure the Indonesians are thinking, "those mugs from New Zealand"

[Balance]

The families of the dead Pike River miners rightly ask - where are the directors of Pike River (and NZOG) ?


The sheer cowardice of the directors of Pike River and NZOG - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10894726

Tony Radford has still not made one single comment or issue an apology.

Meanwhile, they are actively trying to hide their involvement in Pike River - despite collecting over $1m in directors' fees. Fees for what?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/7933606/Former-Pike-River-directors-omit-miner-detail

[the machine]

wonder where the money will come from to pay the victims $110k each
prc certainly has none
maybe their insurance will pay

M

[fabs]

wonder where the money will come from to pay the victims $110k each
prc certainly has none
maybe their insurance will pay

M

PRC EX: Share Holders and directors, in proportion of course, Unless NZO Management offers that the co. will foot the bill.
In good faith the could show that thy are not all greed, perhaps pay out double the amount.
So much underutilized S/H loot in the kitty, may as well do something worthwhile, haven't they filled they're pockets enough.

[Balance]

PRC EX: Share Holders and directors, in proportion of course, Unless NZO Management offers that the co. will foot the bill.
In good faith the could show that thy are not all greed, perhaps pay out double the amount.
So much underutilized S/H loot in the kitty, may as well do something worthwhile, haven't they filled they're pockets enough.

Here is now the true test of what kind of directors NZOG have got.

Are they individuals with integrity and are prepared to stand up to be counted or do they remain the hypocritical cowardly fat cats they have always been?

[arjay]

PRC EX: Share Holders and directors, in proportion of course, Unless NZO Management offers that the co. will foot the bill.
In good faith the could show that thy are not all greed, perhaps pay out double the amount.
So much underutilized S/H loot in the kitty, may as well do something worthwhile, haven't they filled they're pockets enough.

Fair comment - pass on buying into that next bag of magic beans in Tunisia and give the money to the families. Most S/H's would even forgo 1c of the next dividend to pay for it I'm sure. As he has no shares, Balance can chip in from his own pocket.

[Mr Tommy]

Here is now the true test of what kind of directors NZOG have got.

Are they individuals with integrity and are prepared to stand up to be counted or do they remain the hypocritical cowardly fat cats they have always been?


You seem to forget NZO directors already paid over millions in additional funds after the disaster, knowing it would probably not get it back.


25/11/2010 The welfare of the families and communities who have lost their loved ones is
now the prime concern. NZOG will be making a contribution of $500,000 to an
appropriate fund to support those families and communities.

26/11/2010 Following the first explosion at the Pike River Coal mine, the NZOG Board was
advised that the outstanding loan was repayable and that NZOG had no legal
obligation to advance any further money.
The Board resolved that it would not seek immediate repayment and that it
would honour the spirit of the agreement and make the remaining $12m
available to PRC.

[Xerof]

He also seems to forget that PRC had its very own board of directors (I accept dual directorships are in play but they are different hats)

it is PRC directors in the gun here, not NZOG directors. PRC Management also get their day in court in due course to defend themselves, and bear whatever the outcome of that appearance may bring.

I would be mightily pissed off as a shareholder of NZOG if Company funds were somehow appropriated away to appease anyone elses responsibilities.

Perhaps Dow, Nattrass, Radford and the two Indian directors might donate their fees received towards reparation?

Perhaps Gordon Ward might donate some grocery parcels?

[fish]

Fully agree xerof
The responsibility for the explosion legally is a now insolvent company .
NZO has no legal responsibility .
It is a shame that gordon ward who maybe responsible for the unsafe working environment appears to be able to hide in australia with a massive leaving package safely invested in a supermarket.
We wait and see how the directors of prc and the management accept responsibility

[sideline]

I always thought NZOG was in the past too generous with its (shareholder's) money. It certainly didn't earn them any cooperation or recognition for their generosity.
I also recall the appearances on tv of certain family members of the miners attempting to sabotage the salesprocess of the mine in cahoots with Don Elder of Solid Energy. Perhaps the financial situation would be quite different (and maybe they would have even recovered the bodies of the miners) if the sale hadn't been sabotaged with dirty tactics.

[arjay]

It does seem unfair that NZO is being targetted when they have already contributed much out of good faith. Why can't the other 2/3 of Pike shareholders be tapped on the shoulder, especially the Indians who no doubt have cash to offer but haven't contributed yet? As for Balance, he is most culpable - unlike the rest of us he was smart enough to realise there would be a disaster yet didn't do what was neccessary to prevent it. I hope he feels compelled to contribute to the families also.

[digger]

I always thought NZOG was in the past too generous with its (shareholder's) money. It certainly didn't earn them any cooperation or recognition for their generosity.
I also recall the appearances on tv of certain family members of the miners attempting to sabotage the salesprocess of the mine in cahoots with Don Elder of Solid Energy. Perhaps the financial situation would be quite different (and maybe they would have even recovered the bodies of the miners) if the sale hadn't been sabotaged with dirty tactics.


Yes quite so. Emotion very often gets in the way of the best outcome.
To me the final responsibility must be equally shared in four ways. PIKE,the govt through the labor dept that make and are responsibility for administrating the rules, the miners for not taking action against whatever risk that was clearly in front of them,and the greenies for not allowing breather holes to be drilled above the mine that would have cleared off the gas as it was released.
Gordon Ward and the greenies are the two that have never had to explain there part.

Also not that now there is no money for the families as it all went into legal fees.

[arjay]

Digger - who are the 'greenies'? ie, if we wanted an explanation from them. From memory there was Eugenie Sage, when she was spokesperson for Forest and Bird and vehemently opposed to the Pike development in that capacity. That was before she was a Green MP of course, and the Green Party had no power to allow/or not anything when the consents were issued. Who made the decision not to allow ventilation holes?

[arjay]

I wonder what has happened to all the money already forwarded by NZO and PRC for the families?

[minimoke]

To me the final responsibility must be equally shared in four ways. PIKE...
Do you me mean Nzog and others as the owners of pike, or the directors of pike, or the management of pike?

[blackcap]

This is an extremely emotional case and a lot of pain, grief has been endured by many. Notwithstanding NZ needs to be very careful that they do not set a dangerous precedent where shareholders in a limited liability company can be held accountable or lose more than their initial purchase price of their shares. The ramifications if shareholders were held accountable could open an Pandora's box of horrors.

[sideline]

Digger - who are the 'greenies'? ie, if we wanted an explanation from them. From memory there was Eugenie Sage, when she was spokesperson for Forest and Bird and vehemently opposed to the Pike development in that capacity. That was before she was a Green MP of course, and the Green Party had no power to allow/or not anything when the consents were issued. Who made the decision not to allow ventilation holes?

If I recall DOC - at the time under the control of a Labour Govt (Minister of Conservation: Chris Carter). Somewhere I recall that there was the issue that no vehicular access track to the ventilation shaft was allowed to be bulldozed. As a result, everything had to be helicoptered in, drilling rig, materials, casing and later all the fuel for the generator to keep ventilation going. And, in bad weather when helicopters couldn't fly, the only access to the ventilation shaft would be by trekking in on foot for several hours through the Paparoa bush. All that money spent on helicopters could have paid towards a second ventilation shaft or other safety measures.

It truly amazes me what has NOT been examined during the judicial aftermath of the mine explosions. It does make me wonder whether we can place any faith in the findings of those courts or whether they are merely politically correct whitewashes and witchhunts.

[digger]

If I recall DOC - at the time under the control of a Labour Govt (Minister of Conservation: Chris Carter). Somewhere I recall that there was the issue that no vehicular access track to the ventilation shaft was allowed to be bulldozed. As a result, everything had to be helicoptered in, drilling rig, materials, casing and later all the fuel for the generator to keep ventilation going. And, in bad weather when helicopters couldn't fly, the only access to the ventilation shaft would be by trekking in on foot for several hours through the Raparoa bush. All that money spent on helicopters could have paid towards a second ventilation shaft or other safety measures.

It truly amazes me what has NOT been examined during the judicial aftermath of the mine explosions. It does make me wonder whether we can place any faith in the findings of those courts or whether they are merely politically correct whitewashes and witchhunts.

48 hours after the explosion a permit was issued to form a track above the mine to drill shafts down to the mine to inspect for signs of life and the state of the mine internally. A number of shafts were then drilled.Shafts that should have been drilled if anything in advance of the mine tunnel arriving at a given spot.I put this idea to Peter whithall when the tunnel leading to the mine was half built.Well as you can imagine he knew all about it but firmly told me that DOC under the pressure of the greenies were just never going to allow it.. Also ,arjay, I had a heated discussion with some greenies in Morrinsville prior to an election and they told me firmly that PIKE would be stopped mark their word,to a loud cheer and the cheer was not for me.
I would agree that the RC was all for the legal teams and did not get down to what happened or why it happened and how to run a enterprise of this nature so that the mine operations take first priority.

[arjay]

Fundamentally then, if there was faulty infrastructure then either the people who signed it off are accountable, or the guys that didn't maintain it properly. If the infrastructure was OK then it was a simple accident. Turns out the former is true so compensation should be shared by the Govt (Dep Labour) and PRC. NZO has already contributed to reflect their position as the largest minority shareholder. The rest should be shouldered by Govt (say 50%), the remaining PRC shareholders who can - eg the Indians (who afterall voted in PRC management) and culpable directors.

Digger - I can't imagine a greeny in Morrinsville :)

[blackcap]

Why should shareholders contribute anything at all? I think this is very dangerous. If shareholders could become culpable for this sort of thing... think of the consequences. It would be a disaster for commerce.

[sideline]

Why should shareholders contribute anything at all? I think this is very dangerous. If shareholders could become culpable for this sort of thing... think of the consequences. It would be a disaster for commerce.

Yes, think of all those FBU investors - what if a bridge built by Fletchers collapses and kills many? Should the shareholders at the time pay (on top of their loss in sharevalue) for any damages?
One of the principles of business law is that the management and directors (i.e. the decision makers) of the business are culpable, not the owners who have no day-to-day involvement and no decision making powers (i.e. shareholders).

If any money were paid by NZO in this case it would set a very very dangerous precedent all other companies should be seriously concerned about!

Frankly I wonder how a judge could make such a suggestion contradicting long established commercial law and whether she is qualified for the job. Since she so obviously got emotionally involved in the case proper procedure would have called that she excused herself and let some other judge take over the proceedings so that justice could have prevailed.

[Lion]

Yeah, isn't that what "Limited liability" (Ltd) is all about??
I'm quite sure there's no call on NZOG to help out here, tragic though it is. What was the judge thinking?
And yes, I agree, maybe balance could cough up - he knew the dangers before anyone else.

[the machine]

I would not be surprised in nzo paid up on an ex gratia basis with no liability

M

[Balance]

Still no word from NZOG directors - they are cowards and fat cats of the worse kind.

Fat cheshire cats - licking the cream (directors' fees and perks) off their whiskers even while the families of the dead miners mourn.

[Xerof]

What a tosser..........

[fish]

Always has been .
No doubt will get banned and then re-incarnate again.
nzo directors didnt know about safety issues and were not in the loop to know .
I spoke to david salsbury at the nzo agm a few weeks before the explosion.
He told me nzo were trying to sell their share as they didnt know about coal and their expertise was in oil and gas.
He had confidence in peter whitall .

Health and safety poor standards is too blame and prc management and directors have responsibility- as do heath and safety inspectors-understaffed by government and lax government standards and that is where a lot of responsibility lies.
The mine was operating dangerously and was an accident waiting to happen-and they all had enough warnings but nzo was not a party to this.

[the machine]

whilst I doubt if nzo legally are required to pay the compensation and fine - almost $4m, maybe give some thought to what could happen if they did.
THIS DOES NOT ALTER THE FACT THAT 29 PEOPLE DIED WHICH IS FOREMOST IN MY MIND

would the public perception of nzo go up or down?
shareholders may not be happy with seeing their money being used for this when there is no legal requirement
would the expense be a taxable deduction?
if so then it is only the after tax part that nzo incurs
will sp go up or down?
would the gov't look favourably on nzo if they paid?

msc paid $1m to counter public backlash where there was no legal obligation to pay for the riga shipwreck - thus already a precedent of people power
msc are a private company.

I expect shareholders may not be happy initially, seeing their money paid out, but with the boost in public perception then sp should actually increase because of the payout - IMO. if sp increases because of public sentiment then that should change the way shareholders view it.

the victims families would receive compensation, but it still does not bring their loved ones back - THIS IS STILL FOREMOST IN MY MIND and the above is nothing by comparison

M

[Balance]

Based upon Fish's last post, NZOG has lied - big time.

So compensation is not only appropriate but the only moral thing left for NZOG to do.

[digger]

Based upon Fish's last post, NZOG has lied - big time.

So compensation is not only appropriate but the only moral thing left for NZOG to do.
And where would that mentality leave the investing world. What then if a tyre blows out on a car and someone gets killed. Will the shareholders of the tyre makers be held accountable.
On the other hand if we had 50 cents for every time Balance called NZOG shareholders mushrooms we could easily pay off the families and have money to spare for the legal teams to soak up every more.

[arjay]

1) NZO has no legal or moral obligation to pay anything - they were not part of the decision process that caused the tragedy
2) As AK alluded yesterday, it is inappropriate for the judge to pass judgement on any party not examined by the case. She was not qualified to pass such a comment.
3) If NZO does make another payment, the public are likely to see it as tacit acceptance of culpability, which would be untrue and damaging to the company's reputation.
4) 29 people died as Balance will tell us about again very soon.

[Balance]

And where would that mentality leave the investing world. What then if a tyre blows out on a car and someone gets killed. Will the shareholders of the tyre makers be held accountable.
On the other hand if we had 50 cents for every time Balance called NZOG shareholders mushrooms we could easily pay off the families and have money to spare for the legal teams to soak up every more.

You may accept executives of companies lying as being acceptable.

The vast majority of us don't.

Birds of a feather flock together - be careful of the company you keep.

[Balance]

NZOG uses paper and more than likely has some wooden furniture too. To be moral (and put things in Balance) need they pay compensation to these families as well?


Twenty-six forestry workers have died in New Zealand since in the past six years (http://www.3news.co.nz/Forestry-industry-safety-record-under-fire/tabid/423/articleID/295819/Default.aspx)





Disc. no longer hold NZO and still have some PRC shares showing in my portfolio

All so trivial and so amusing for you, Yankiwi.

Easier to sweep NZOG's role - in initially owning PRC, sponsoring it, seconding management to it, has directors on PRC's board, funding it thru' one delay to another mishap, talking the coal story to all and sundry and now we know, blatantly lying to shareholders (i.e.Fish) - than calling the moral imperative for NZOG to front up to its responsibilities.

[blockhead]

And as Kiwi Saver Investors I guess we could all have an interest through NZO, perhaps all Kiwi Saver Investors should chip in a few bob as well !!!!

[Lion]

Well let's see what Mr Market thinks about the judge's suggestions - nothing!
SP unchanged yesterday, (although up then down during the day)
My take on this is that no-one much believes that NZOG will have to chip in to help the families.
ABSOLUTE SYMPATHIES TO THE FAMILIES - what a dreadful disaster, but NZOG is in no way obliged to help out - they have already helped PRC more than they needed to.
C'mon balance - you should pay up, you knew a disaster was going to happen and did nothing.

Tosser

[Balance]

Well let's see what Mr Market thinks about the judge's suggestions - nothing!
SP unchanged yesterday, (although up then down during the day)
My take on this is that no-one much believes that NZOG will have to chip in to help the families.
ABSOLUTE SYMPATHIES TO THE FAMILIES - what a dreadful disaster, but NZOG is in no way obliged to help out - they have already helped PRC more than they needed to.
C'mon balance - you should pay up, you knew a disaster was going to happen and did nothing.

Tosser

Love it!

When the peasants in some of you come out, I know I have won the argument.

Well, I spoke up and was condemned as a heretic.

I have a super clear conscience.

Can you say the same?

At least David Salisbury did not dare to bs me that he had confidence in Whitall 2 months after he told the Board he had none!

[Lion]

I spoke up and was condemned as a heretic.

I have a super clear conscience.

Can you say the same?

Oh yes, my conscience is clear - are you quite sure yours is??

Oh diddums, "condemned as a heretic" ? You poor wee thingey - is our criticism starting to get through you super-thick skin at last??

Tosser

[Balance]

Oh yes, my conscience is clear - are you quite sure yours is??



Good on you then!

"Total lack of remorse" I think that's what the judge said.

Bravo! Mr Tony Radford sends you his best regards. Champagne with him next time, ok?

[arjay]

I have a super clear conscience.



How can you have a "super clear conscience" Balance? You were the only person on the planet smart enough to know in advance that the disaster was imminent, but did nothing to stop those miners going to work that morning. At least you could have made a phone call or barricade the road in from the highway. Negligent to say the least perhaps.

[Balance]

Fish has gone under a water rock?

If I bought PRC or NZOG shares on the back of David Salisbury's 'confidence in Whitall' I will be bringing a case against him for blatant misinformation and lies.

[brucey09]

Snr. Balance
Time some person take action - good.

[bucko]

hahaha I sold my stake in NZO a few months ago and I havent been on this thread since, thought I'd check it out today to see if theres anything new going on and what do you know? Balance is still on his vendetta! whats that, 18 months straight now?

Start your own thread mate

[digger]

hahaha I sold my stake in NZO a few months ago and I havent been on this thread since, thought I'd check it out today to see if theres anything new going on and what do you know? Balance is still on his vendetta! whats that, 18 months straight now?

Start your own thread mate

With hindsight Balance has always know that the mine was going to blow up and he really just wants our grateful acceptance and of his inner vision. We are all very fortunate to have him here telling us what happened after it happened.

[boysy]

Well we have a company comment through the NZ herald today

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10895299

[Balance]

With hindsight Balance has always know that the mine was going to blow up and he really just wants our grateful acceptance and of his inner vision. We are all very fortunate to have him here telling us what happened after it happened.

Funny how Noggewrs have all gone to ground on Fish's post re DS's 'confidence in Whitall"?

[digger]

The mistake NZO did with handling the PIKE tragedy was to give up the 25 million so soon after the accident. This is the only fault I came lay at their feet. Why it was a mistake is that it did not take the human condition into account and now we are asked to pay for this once again.
By giving 25 million so soon after the accident it just makes it that much easier for the legal fees to rise to meet that sum. In any settlement of this nature the banks always cream it to 100% and the legal boys are never far behind and that is exactally what NZO payment of 25 million allowed to happen. Let us imagine that the 25 million never happened and now NZO were to give this few million to settle with the families. Suddenly with far less outlay NZO would be seen in a favourable light.
To me the Judge should have said that NZO alone has contributed and neither the Bank or the Legal profession have done nil and in fact have creamed it.

I would be totally opposed To NZO giving any more monies without some coming from, Banks, legal ,and the govt for not closing the mine. Also I believe Balance should be digging into his pocket as he knew about this accident well in advance but chose to do nothing.

[Balance]

The mistake NZO did with handling the PIKE tragedy was to give up the 25 million so soon after the accident. This is the only fault I came lay at their feet. Why it was a mistake is that it did not take the human condition into account and now we are asked to pay for this once again.
By giving 25 million so soon after the accident it just makes it that much easier for the legal fees to rise to meet that sum. In any settlement of this nature the banks always cream it to 100% and the legal boys are never far behind and that is exactally what NZO payment of 25 million allowed to happen. Let us imagine that the 25 million never happened and now NZO were to give this few million to settle with the families. Suddenly with far less outlay NZO would be seen in a favourable light.
To me the Judge should have said that NZO alone has contributed and neither the Bank or the Legal profession have done nil and in fact have creamed it.

I would be totally opposed To NZO giving any more monies without some coming from, Banks, legal ,and the govt for not closing the mine. Also I believe Balance should be digging into his pocket as he knew about this accident well in advance but chose to do nothing.

Digger, read the PRC thread very carefully and you will find that some posters like me alerted to gross mismanagement of the mine.

At every turn, we were attacked and some of the postings attacking us were as personal as they got.

Why?

Maybe you care to answer why, in a democracy and free society like NZ, no one was allowed to question and bring management to task?

Alas, if more investors have taken note, management might have found it harder to obtain the funding (capital raising one after another) and had to answer some tough questions about why the mine was so problematic.

Lives could then have been saved.

[the machine]

Well we have a company comment through the NZ herald today

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10895299

interesting article and Andrew Knight is reminding everyone what nzo have done.
banks repaid 100% as first ranking creditors and there is not even a hint that they should pay anything.

m

[arjay]

interesting article and Andrew Knight is reminding everyone what nzo have done.
banks repaid 100% as first ranking creditors and there is not even a hint that they should pay anything.

m

Commenting on this and DIggers post, it seems the judge targetted NZO purely because they are the largest shareholder (she probably didn't know they are a minority shareholder) and more to the point she is of the opinion that they have some spare cash. By advancing the 25 million at the start NZO probably gave her the impresison they accepted some of the fault. If anyone has to pay out, then after PRC itself the directors should be first to pay followed by PRC shareholders. I guess that means ACC should pay out afterall, being a significant shareholder in NZO.

I see Balance is trying to share the blame with other posters on the PRC thread.

[Balance]

Commenting on this and DIggers post, it seems the judge targetted NZO purely because they are the largest shareholder (she probably didn't know they are a minority shareholder) and more to the point she is of the opinion that they have some spare cash. By advancing the 25 million at the start NZO probably gave her the impresison they accepted some of the fault. If anyone has to pay out, then after PRC itself the directors should be first to pay followed by PRC shareholders. I guess that means ACC should pay out afterall, being a significant shareholder in NZO.

I see Balance is trying to share the blame with other posters on the PRC thread.

The Judge is not as dumb as the mushrooms here. She saw through to who really brought Pike River into extstence and who really had control of the company.

We dop not need to share blame, Arjay - we know WHO are to blame for 29 deaths.

[Balance]

nzo directors didnt know about safety issues and were not in the loop to know .
I spoke to david salsbury at the nzo agm a few weeks before the explosion.
He told me nzo were trying to sell their share as they didnt know about coal and their expertise was in oil and gas.
He had confidence in peter whitall .



Really, Fish?

David Salisbury told you he had confidence in Whitall at the AGM?

And obviously you BELIEVED him?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10739851

Excerpt : "The inquiry heard that in August last year, David Salisbury - chief executive of Pike River Coal's major shareholder, New Zealand Oil and Gas - conveyed to Pike River chairman John Dow a loss of confidence in Mr Whittall."

That was August 2010.

NZOG's AGM that year was October 2010.

Wow! The most blatant lie I have yet to witness anywhere in the corporate world has just been revealed.

[arjay]

No need to keep reposting this one Balance. Any competent CEO will speak of colleagues in a good or light if asked at an AGM. Talk to them privately and you may get a different view.

[fish]

No need to keep reposting this one Balance. Any competent CEO will speak of colleagues in a good or light if asked at an AGM. Talk to them privately and you may get a different view.

Basically I am a lot wiser than i was 3 years ago arjay . A lot of people lie -especially in positions of power-most politicians and many ceo .Many finance company directors . A lot misuse their power-did you read the article about Don Elder today .
I dont know if ds lied to me or not-he could well have changed his opinion on Whittall . I suspect he lied .On the day of the explosion I had a buy order go through at 5pm on prc. My loss is nothing compared to the real losses .
Those families seem to me to be laying blame on the directors,whittall and government agencies rather than nzo . If that is the case I agree with them-but also include those who planned and approved the mine.
In hindsight it was stupid to build a mine uphill,in methane rich deposits as methane rises to hang around the coal faces.Stupidly i thought waterblasting would make the explosion risk minimal .
I was stupid to listen and trust ds as he also told me he knew nothing about coal-nor did nzo-which is why he wanted to sell as soon as a better offer arrived

[Balance]

[QUOTE=fish;415640]Basically I am a lot wiser than i was 3 years ago arjay . A lot of people lie -especially in positions of power-most politicians and many ceo ./QUOTE]

Sorry but you are not, you know.

You walk right into the trap - because you could not be bothered reading up and following the Commission of Inquiry into Pike River. If you did, you would know what David salisbury said about Whitall.

And you would have learnt a few other things as well about NZOG.

[Balance]

No need to keep reposting this one Balance. Any competent CEO will speak of colleagues in a good or light if asked at an AGM. Talk to them privately and you may get a different view.

All I can say is that your standards and expectations are much much lower than one would expect from a senior member of the sharetrading community!

[the machine]

after thinking about the magistrate's decision for last few days and reading some views in media, then have come to the conclusion that nzo should not pay any more than what they have already paid.
the only people that win are banks and legal - by some victim's families wanting to pursue the government - then who will pay their legal fees?
getting back to the magistrate's decision and naming nzo - IMO nzo should not try to appeal them being named - no good will come of it.
nzo can refute themselves being named if they so desire.

some may wonder if the magistrate was baiting nzo by naming them.
would an appeal possibly lead to the directors being charged? opening up possibility of directors insurance coming into play if directors are proven to be at fault. ie if not nzo at fault then has to be the directors, but in the cold hard light of day, it is neither to this point.

M

[Balance]

"Total lack of remorse"

And not a word from Tony Radford yet.

[Balance]

The mistake NZO did with handling the PIKE tragedy was to give up the 25 million so soon after the accident. This is the only fault I came lay at their feet. Why it was a mistake is that it did not take the human condition into account and now we are asked to pay for this once again.
By giving 25 million so soon after the accident it just makes it that much easier for the legal fees to rise to meet that sum. In any settlement of this nature the banks always cream it to 100% and the legal boys are never far behind and that is exactally what NZO payment of 25 million allowed to happen. Let us imagine that the 25 million never happened and now NZO were to give this few million to settle with the families. Suddenly with far less outlay NZO would be seen in a favourable light.
To me the Judge should have said that NZO alone has contributed and neither the Bank or the Legal profession have done nil and in fact have creamed it.

I would be totally opposed To NZO giving any more monies without some coming from, Banks, legal ,and the govt for not closing the mine. Also I believe Balance should be digging into his pocket as he knew about this accident well in advance but chose to do nothing.

Read this, Digger and anyone will understand why you are so adamant NZOG and PRC are not to be blamed for the explosion :

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?4603-PRC-Pike-River-Coal/page340

You view is that everything that goes wrong with PRC is somebody's else's fault - not PRC or NZOG.

Unbridled cheerleader you were for the management of Pike and NZOG.

What does 'total lack of remorse' mean to you?

Gloves off.

[arjay]

All I can say is that your standards and expectations are much much lower than one would expect from a senior member of the sharetrading community!

You missed the point Balance. If you have had any experience with a company's senior management (which clearly you haven't) you will know that it is innapropriate to paint colleagues in a bad light in such public fora as AGMs.

I suggest Balance works on more constructive language rather than ranting, and that posters ignore him until he does.

[digger]

[QUOTE=Balance;415672]Read this, Digger and anyone will understand why you are so adamant NZOG and PRC are not to be blamed for the explosion :

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?4603-PRC-Pike-River-Coal/page340

You view is that everything that goes wrong with PRC is somebody's else's fault - not PRC or NZOG.

Unbridled cheerleader you were for the management of Pike and NZOG.

What does 'total lack of remorse' mean to you?



Balance your ranting on is negative for the families getting the best hope of a settlement. I appreciate ranting is your hobby and that you have done it for many years but we are now at a special case. It may very well be that the PIKE directors are considering some settlement and if that is the case your rubbing it in could well scuddle any directors willingness to contribute. That that is the intension I have no idea, but if it is you are certainly a huge Negative to that end. I bring this up as I have had experience of not contributing when I would otherwise would have except that I was put into unacceptable situation. Lets tone it down and not try to make hay out of a dreadful situation..........

[minimoke]

. It may very well be that the PIKE directors are considering some settlement and if that is the case your rubbing it in could well scuddle any directors willingness to contribute. That that is the intension I have no idea, but if it is you are certainly a huge Negative to that end...
I think you will find the Directors and their legal advisors are now looking at any potential civil liability risk. Given the evidence to date it may be likely that they will try to head off any potential action by some form of settlement. I wouldn't read into this as any form of generosity - rather it is simply pragmatic damage control.

[arjay]

Fair comment Tumeric, although discussion relating to NZO liability to other companies does belong here. Hopefully this will be clarified shortly so there will be no need for a seperate thread (or, hopefully, the playing of more broken records).

[neopoleII]

back to indonesia.....

NZO is a producer and its income is funding the current drilling program in indonesia.
the type of company this is means it HAS to to keep exploring to replenish its income.
but........ where it explores and the type of exploring it is doing is the question that the shareholders are discussing, arguing about.... before the timely intervention of a judge thats calling for shareholder reparation....... that is one scary preposition.... just goes to show the depths of socialism in our society.

this thread seems to be the prime spot for NZO discussions...... what with 1.5 million views of this thread...... quite something!
which brings me to a point of the latest disclosure with the remark of "some discussion of a maximum of 100 barrels and a plugged well"..... i have looked all over the place and cant find this link anywhere....... maybe someone can post a link?
with all this chat on here of protecting the information of the drill progress and legal issues of "leaked info" why was this 100 barrel stuff disclosed?
maybe on the most popular chat thread regarding NZO (this thread) we could also make up stories of this and that and get a formal company reply?
seems like a smokescreen announcement to me.
on another more note........
AWE has a totally proven and operational well with 100 odd million barrels of oil and is looking to sell part of it of for 100 to 130 million.
this extract from the AWE thread on this website......

""Australian-based oil producer and explorer, AWE (AWE), has welcomed a reserve upgrade at the Ande Ande Lumut (AAL) oil field, offshore Indonesia. This field is wholly owned by AWE and the company has previously announced a sale process whereby up to 50% of the asset may be sold down. The outcome is expected at the end of the September quarter. The upgrade to reserves is timely, as brokers believe it will enhance the attractiveness of the asset in the sale process.
The independent assessment has resulted in gross 2P - proved and probable - oil reserves increasing to 101 million barrels from the previous estimate of 76mmbbl. The net entitlement oil reserves estimate has increased to 50mmbbl from 43mmbbl.

so with the great working relationship between AWE and NZO why isnt this being talked about?
NZO has the cash to purchase this holding and generate instant cash.

but it seems that NZO is on a different tangent.
after the serious issues of the last several years i would of thought that this opportunity is a gift horse.
and the income from this would allow it to step up to the next level of bigger risk and reward and still be viable.

in the nine years or so that i have been a holder of this stock, i have seen riskier and riskier plays and not much success.
AWE has presented a truely attractive offer ..... compared to NZO's endeavors and nothing of this is talked about.

wasnt the cash from the conversion meant to be used by the company to buy proven resources?
and many posters here moaned when after many years they didnt buy anything?
and the PPP buy up at 20 to 30 odd cents and now sitting at cash on hand value and no move?

yes...... im just a wage earner...... and a typical mum and dad investor, so not overly experienced (zero actually) in board room affairs.
but i do know when something seems wrong.

this to me is smelly......... and some might say silly boy to me....... fine.
but...... if nzo or companies on the NZX want to attract hard earned cash from mums and dads to grow their companies.......
their going to have to get the trust from these folks, as they rely on the board members to make the right decisions to grow their investment,
otherwise bank rates or investment property will always win.
and the last point..... NZO has grown from a small high risk explorer to a biggish NZ producer... yet IMHO the board is still in gamble mode.

and regarding the legal issues surrounding pike and its relationship to NZO .... i was always of the belief that one must be accused, tried and then proven for there to be a legal outcome or result... but judicial view points with no legal standings should not happen in a democracy.
that is what media, commentators, citizens do.... not government appointed judiciary.
slippery slope.
on this point AK was very well spoken and those who appose NZO's stance and support the judges personal views expressed in a court room should think about what this could do to NZ commerce.
this whole affair has been tragic, and those who set up PIKE and ran it till that tragic day should look at themselves and think.
but they were allowed to proceed along this path with all legal compliance and required paperwork checked and approved.
obviously there were errors........ but the mine wasnt run illegally.
and to truely get the correct information.... the mine has to be entered..... otherwise it is all educated speculation.


regards.

[arjay]

You've touched on many things there Neopole. One point in particular though is the 100 barrels issue. NZO made a clarification on this after they referred to unsubstantiated media reports. I've done some digging but can't find any reports of that nature so would be grateful is anyone can point to any.

[Balance]

I think you will find the Directors and their legal advisors are now looking at any potential civil liability risk. Given the evidence to date it may be likely that they will try to head off any potential action by some form of settlement. I wouldn't read into this as any form of generosity - rather it is simply pragmatic damage control.

Good article by Fran O'Sullivan this morning in the NZ Herald regarding the liability of NZOG towards the damages awarded by the judge.

She makes the point that Pike River actually had money - $80m from the insurance payout - but the money was paid out.

The biggest beneficiary of the payout was - wait for it - of course, NZOG at $49.96m.

BNZ was paid $22.412m.

Unsecured creditors were paid $9.2m.

The damages should take precedence over the payouts to NZOG and the unsecured creditors.

PWC should have retained funds to pay the damages.

Who appointed PWC?

Who funded PWC?

The answers become very clear as to why NZOG should accept responsibility for the damages and fine.

[Mr Tommy]

Good article by Fran O'Sullivan this morning in the NZ Herald regarding the liability of NZOG towards the damages awarded by the judge.

She makes the point that Pike River actually had money - $80m from the insurance payout - but the money was paid out.

The biggest beneficiary of the payout was - wait for it - of course, NZOG at $49.96m.

BNZ was paid $22.412m.

Unsecured creditors were paid $9.2m.

The damages should take precedence over the payouts to NZOG and the unsecured creditors.

PWC should have retained funds to pay the damages.

Who appointed PWC?

Who funded PWC?

The answers become very clear as to why NZOG should accept responsibility for the damages and fine.


Balance - another bit of selective memory on your part.

http://www.directbroking.co.nz/directtrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=2888577

The insurance payout was $73.7m.
BNZ took their full $23m
NZOG had full rights to the remaining money, but basically gave $10.5m to allow the mine workers, contractors and suppliers who were unsecured to be paid.

[arjay]

Mr Tommy, the O'Sullivan opinion piece takes the view that because NZO supported PRC financially then they were instrumental in enabling PRC to conduct shonky business. An interesting angle, but in the end just another commentators opinion.

On a more relevant note OMV have secured the support vessels for Matuku. Hopefully the Kan Tan IV will be heading here soon for the Sept spud!

[Balance]

Balance - another bit of selective memory on your part.

http://www.directbroking.co.nz/directtrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=2888577

The insurance payout was $73.7m.
BNZ took their full $23m
NZOG had full rights to the remaining money, but basically gave $10.5m to allow the mine workers, contractors and suppliers who were unsecured to be paid.

May have full rights to the money THEN but the payout was before the finding of gross negligence on the part of PRC and NZOG's seconded management and directors, and before the damages and fines were quantified by the court finding and judgement.

I am not expecting NZOG to pay - the directors and management are cowards, and hide behind women's dresses.

[minimoke]

It was plain to see that from day one PRC was not going to avoid a safety prosecution and you can't go killing people without a fine and reparation award.

While the quantum was unknown the outcome was reasonably foreseen.

PRC did have insurance and sent a goodly chunk of it to NZOG. NZOG in return sent $10.5m back to unsecured PRC creditors. So they have already accepted the moral position of paying when there is no direct legal responsibility to do so.

It was nog who put pike into receiver ship so they could extract whatever available loot before others got their hand on it.

families of pike are now essentially creditors who are now unpaid due to nzog taking all the cash.

In a liquidation it is the employees who get first dibs on cash and certainly before Unsecured creditors.

Time for nog to look closely at itself.

[fabs]

OK,
Experts of tactical moves, Experts of lining there pockets, Experts at soliciting funds of S/H,
Experts at ever so slowly throwing crumbs of a fore mentioned funds back to S/H over extended time, Experts of starting ventures in which they haven't got a clue, Experts in foreign currency holdings, Experts investing in all sorts and sundry companies & ventures which at this point of time seem to be on a ticket to nowhere.

Experts in exploring for OIL & GAS OR ANY REVENUE BEARING VENTURES, INVESTMENTS ???????
Must be close if not over 10 years since they have scored anything along there chosen, main and proclaimed expertise.

[the machine]

Mr Tommy, the O'Sullivan opinion piece takes the view that because NZO supported PRC financially then they were instrumental in enabling PRC to conduct shonky business. An interesting angle, but in the end just another commentators opinion.

On a more relevant note OMV have secured the support vessels for Matuku. Hopefully the Kan Tan IV will be heading here soon for the Sept spud!

ajay, now that is a bit of good news

M

[Slowlearna]

MINE: NZO: Operator provides Kisaran update
NZO
12/07/2013 09:22
MINE

REL: 0922 HRS New Zealand Oil and Gas Limited

MINE: NZO: Operator provides Kisaran update

The operator of the Kisaran Production Sharing Contract in onshore North
Sumatera has received approval from the Indonesian regulator to provide the
following update:

"Pacific Oil & Gas (Kisaran) Ltd, the Operator of Kisaran Production Sharing
Contract area, located onshore North Sumatra, said that it has successfully
drilled the Parit Minyak-2 (PM-2) exploration well. The well is the second
exploration well in the Parit Minyak structure and is located 1.6 km to the
north of the Parit Minyak-1 discovery well. The objective of this well was to
test upper and middle Pematang Formation reservoirs in order to bring this
field into the development phase.

"PM-2 spudded on February 11, 2013 and reached a total depth of 9225 feet MD
(9165 feet SS) on April 10, 2013. During drilling several oil shows were
noted within Eocene/Oligocene Pematang sandstones within a gross interval of
7500-8900 feet. The base of the oil column was not reached at the cessation
of drilling.
Cased hole drill stem tests (DSTs) were conducted over four intervals, each
containing multiple sandstones. From the interval 8136-8330 feet the well
flowed 37o API oil at rates in the range of 200-400 BOPD (32/64" choke,
80-100 psi flowing well head pressure) with no water.

"A hydraulic fracture program has been prepared to stimulate one of the DST
intervals in order to test increasing the productivity of the reservoir. This
programme is scheduled for late August 2013.

"The drilling rig will now be moved to the site of the next Kisaran
exploration well, Parit Minyak-3, which is estimated to spud mid-July 2013."

New Zealand Oil & Gas Ltd has a 22.5% stake in the joint venture through the
share ownership of its subsidiary NZOG Asia Pty Ltd in Pacific Oil & Gas
(North Sumatera) Ltd. The Kisaran Joint Venture partners are Pacific Oil &
Gas (Kisaran) Ltd (55 per cent and operator) and Pacific Oil & Gas (Sumatera)
Inc (22.5 per cent).

[Banksie]

Cased hole drill stem tests (DSTs) were conducted over four intervals, each
containing multiple sandstones. From the interval 8136-8330 feet the well
flowed 37o API oil at rates in the range of 200-400 BOPD (32/64" choke,
80-100 psi flowing well head pressure) with no water.

Is 200-400 barrels of oil per day a good, bad, or average flow rate?

[arjay]

You'd think that if it's free flowing with no water 200-400 is gotta be a good start. I liked the bit about how the bottom of the oil column wasn't reached before drilling stopped. Looks like plenty of upside for this one?

[the machine]

free flowing with no water is excellent IMO [no tar sands oil as some would have us believe]
daresay will be very good for the sp

M

[neopoleII]

at 37o API oil it seems the quality is excellent. just have to work on the quantity. if they cant raise the bopd into the thousands then its not economic, i guess this is where the stimulation will tell all. i would of thought they might do this first before paying for another drill?
this might be why chevron walked away when it did because it didnt have the stimulation tech that is available today?
i cant see why the sp should rise... if they cant get it to the surface at a reasonable rate then there is no point.
i am however an investor and wish them all the best.

[arjay]

Neopole, being onland why would a few hundred barrels not be economic? The US is littered with small but profitable fields delivering a few barrels over a long period. Infrastructure perhaps?

[neopoleII]

hi arjay,
i had a look at what NZO paid for it share of this drill and i found an announcement dated 12.12.2011 that said this:
"The company's contribution to the drilling cost is expected to be approximately US$7m. "
so for their percentage share of the drill and the half share/take of the indo gevernment..... the flow rates at this stage arent to good.
but if fracturing works then great.
i hate being negative...... but the positive stuff that management keeps pumping out all the time and most of it ends up as wind in the air......
i cant help but looking deeper or questioning their statements.
so yes when i said before that its all tar sands etc..... i was making comments to counter the endless GOOD news that the board feeds us.
soo....... here we are.... 7mill $us and a very small share of 300 400 odd barrels of oil per day.
this could obviously change. but with this current disclosure, you would think that the board could now enhance this disclosure with a bit of
tech talk and what these results could mean.

to me it seems that investors now need to learn oil well speak to understand the results.
why cant the NZO website have a glossary of terms and understanding? so investors can learn about the numbers that are disclosed on announcements.

by the way...... 400 barrels per day is about the amount a kitchen tap outputs on 1/3 flow over 24 hours.

made a mistake........ here is a break down on the volume of a barrel or oil.

1. Unit of volume for crude oil and petroleum products. One barrel equals 42 US gallons or 35 UK (imperial) gallons, or approximately 159 liters or 9,702 cubic inches (5.6 cubic feet); 6.29 barrels equal one cubic meter and (on average) 7.33 barrels weigh one metric ton (1000 kilograms).

so its about 1 full kitchen tap going full bore.

[the machine]

I recall when tui was drilled and the initial comments was that it was gas - oil certainly was not mentioned.
there was no free flowing oil.

Kisaran thus far has no gas or water and is free flowing oil.

if the fracture simulation works then we are in business
combine with a horizontal production hole then that substantially improves the situation

M

[arjay]

Thanks Neopole - I see what you mean. Put another way, 400 barrels per day is around $40,000 per day gross = ~$15 million per year, so at that rate it would probably take NZO well over 3 years to recoup their 7 million after costs are taken into consideration.

[sideline]

I recall when tui was drilled and the initial comments was that it was gas - oil certainly was not mentioned.
there was no free flowing oil.

Kisaran thus far has no gas or water and is free flowing oil.

if the fracture simulation works then we are in business
combine with a horizontal production hole then that substantially improves the situation

M

Tui had to employ artificial lift to make the oil flow.

[the machine]

Tui had to employ artificial lift to make the oil flow.

that is correct

anyway, a successful fracture simulation test for kisaran virtually makes the field commercial, even before the 3rd hole is finished

exciting times for nzo

M

[blockhead]

Haven't heard a squeak from Balance, there has to be some gloom in the Ann we have missed !

[Balance]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10897484

Excerpt : "A report on the US disaster came to fairly similar conclusions to the Pike River royal commission

Subsequently the US Attorney announced a settlement with Alpha Natural Resources, which owns the Upper Big Branch Mine, to pay fines of US$220 million. This included US$46.5 million, or US$1.5 million each, to the 29 victims' families and the two survivors.

The Pike River directors, NZOG and the Crown have a strong moral obligation to ensure the $3.41 million court order is paid to the families of the 29 deceased miners and the two survivors.

If litigation funders take up the case, and are successful, these parties will regret that they didn't take the opportunity to settle this issue."

Nice pile of cash that NZOG has got to pay huge damages too.

[winner69]

At least gaynor didn't mention that all shareholders have some moral responsibility as well, ESP if those smaller shareholders considered themselves "owners"

[Balance]

At least gaynor didn't mention that all shareholders have some moral responsibility as well, ESP if those smaller shareholders considered themselves "owners"

The directors at NZOG are not only morally deficient, they are cowards of the worse kind.

They are so frightened that they are going to be hauled in front of the court for gross mismanagement leading to the deaths of 29 miners, they have left their moral compass in the mine.

They need to stand up and be accountable for the millions of dollars of fees and perks they have taken from the company over the years.

[arjay]

Morality of course is a mercurial property that changes it's definition depending on the agenda of whoever is in the pulpit. Gaynor gives a good run-down on the project history and does highlight an important issue for NZO, in that regardless of the culpability (or not) of the various players involved in the disaster NZO needs to conduct a thorough risk analysis regarding civil claims. If there is potential for a long and expensive civil case it would be worth them doing a deal with other parties to come up with the cash if the process of going through a civil process ends up costing more. Of course, even if they do pay out, what's to stop the families going for more cash anyway?

[Banksie]

Haven't heard a squeak from Balance, there has to be some gloom in the Ann we have missed !

<sigh> you just had to call ;)

[sideline]

Morality of course is a mercurial property that changes it's definition depending on the agenda of whoever is in the pulpit. Gaynor gives a good run-down on the project history and does highlight an important issue for NZO, in that regardless of the culpability (or not) of the various players involved in the disaster NZO needs to conduct a thorough risk analysis regarding civil claims. If there is potential for a long and expensive civil case it would be worth them doing a deal with other parties to come up with the cash if the process of going through a civil process ends up costing more. Of course, even if they do pay out, what's to stop the families going for more cash anyway?

Of course, those making frivolous civil claims can have substantial costs awarded against them. That should act as a deterrent against blackmailers and american-style ambulance chasers.
After all everyone agrees, that there is absolutely no legal liability for NZO whatsoever. That is all that can count in court.
Also, everyone does agree that the legal situation is such that if there had been any money left, secured creditors would rank before the
victims families' claims awarded by Farish. That makes any further legal action completely pointless.
There seems to be mushy thinking of epidemic proportions from Farish to Gaynor that because somebody has money it should be up for
grabs (irrespective of liability) because the actual defendant can't pay. I wonder whether Gaynor would apply the same reasoning to
the fund he administers for investors mostly in shares of often risky enterprises. Is the whole fund (all 567m) in jeopardy if
something really catastrophic happens with one of his investments, say AIR NZ?? Welcome to the brave new world of unlimited liability for
shareholders, Mr Gaynor.

[fish]

I wonder if anyone with expertise in liability could comment on whether nzo,prc directors and perhaps Gordon Ward could have any criminal responsibility for neglect of duty to take all reasonable measures to preserve life of employees or something similar
I see that in the American coal mine tragedy a deal was done for payment of compensation instead of prosecution

[Balance]

Of course, those making frivolous civil claims can have substantial costs awarded against them. That should act as a deterrent against blackmailers and american-style ambulance chasers.
After all everyone agrees, that there is absolutely no legal liability for NZO whatsoever. That is all that can count in court.
Also, everyone does agree that the legal situation is such that if there had been any money left, secured creditors would rank before the
victims families' claims awarded by Farish. That makes any further legal action completely pointless.
There seems to be mushy thinking of epidemic proportions from Farish to Gaynor that because somebody has money it should be up for
grabs (irrespective of liability) because the actual defendant can't pay. I wonder whether Gaynor would apply the same reasoning to
the fund he administers for investors mostly in shares of often risky enterprises. Is the whole fund (all 567m) in jeopardy if
something really catastrophic happens with one of his investments, say AIR NZ?? Welcome to the brave new world of unlimited liability for
shareholders, Mr Gaynor.

Have you bothered reading Fran O'Sullivan and Brian Gaynor comments properly?

There is clear and direct linkage between PRC and NZOG all the way from the funding and management of PRC right through to the explosion, loss of lives and the receivership.

NZOG appointed the receiver, negotiated the terms of the payments to all and sundry (especially itself) from the insurance proceeds - and leave PRC with zero funds to meet the fines, compensations and damages.

"Total lack of remorse."

Yes, Tony Radford and his fellow directors are enjoying the good life while families of the 29 dead miners mourn.

[sideline]

I really don't see where your remorse & guilt trip comes from: Once PRC had been floated on the NZX it was a totally separate company. NZX rules prohibited even the exchange of information between PRC and NZO that could have advantaged NZO as a shareholder over other shareholders. I had a chat with David Salisbury at an AGM who told me how difficult those rules made it for them to even find out some financial details about PRC while negotiating loans to PRC. They didn't have any control or say in the running of the mine and little more detailed knowledge than you and I.

[digger]

A lot is getting said from all sources about PIKE so I might as well add my small bit and I do not expect any attention from anywhere as a result although If I say so myself the ideas are worth considering.
It seems from Gaynor and Balance and our dear Judge that NZOG's quilt can be traced back to having money in the bank. And while I am on about banks did BNZ not get rescued some years ago by the tax payer yet now little is said that the BNZ is just as quilty as NZO for making PIKE happen by lending the money to set it up. So far did anyone notice that only the BNZ and the legal boys are the only clear winners in this affair.
I probable am alone in regretting that we in our culture must not ever question the actions of the dead. Whether it is Robin Bain or the 29 dead Pike miners no consideration of there part must be looked into. An unspoken so called respect for the dead has to be upheld at all costs. To me why do we not go into the mine and find out what happened. It should be the police job to take all info from the area of the crime. And if they did it would be almost certain that a now melted lighter would be there but no doubt that would have to be hidden away.
Anyone ever ask about ACC and where they stand. Did the miners not die from an accident so why not ACC?
The gas In the mine would never have built up in the first place if the greenies had allowed a track above the mine to put breathing holes as I have said many time.
The govt cutting back on mine inspections has to be brought in question.

Finally just because NZO has money in the bank and Balance has a grudge against the company does not make it quality.
The worst outcome of PIKE may well be that some elements of the country are trying to make policy on the hop and before we accept that we should ask where that will leave us in the future if it suddenly become OK to invent policy after any accident. Will anyone with money in the bank be quility.
Lets open up the mine and see what happened.

[Balance]

I really don't see where your remorse & guilt trip comes from: Once PRC had been floated on the NZX it was a totally separate company. NZX rules prohibited even the exchange of information between PRC and NZO that could have advantaged NZO as a shareholder over other shareholders. I had a chat with David Salisbury at an AGM who told me how difficult those rules made it for them to even find out some financial details about PRC while negotiating loans to PRC. They didn't have any control or say in the running of the mine and little more detailed knowledge than you and I.

And you believed him!!!!

Same David Salisbury who told Fish that he had confidence in Whitall 2 months after telling Pike River to fire the guy!

One of the most blatant corporate lie ever uttered.

[Balance]

A lot is getting said from all sources about PIKE so I might as well add my small bit and I do not expect any attention from anywhere as a result although If I say so myself the ideas are worth considering.
It seems from Gaynor and Balance and our dear Judge that NZOG's quilt can be traced back to having money in the bank. And while I am on about banks did BNZ not get rescued some years ago by the tax payer yet now little is said that the BNZ is just as quilty as NZO for making PIKE happen by lending the money to set it up. So far did anyone notice that only the BNZ and the legal boys are the only clear winners in this affair.
I probable am alone in regretting that we in our culture must not ever question the actions of the dead. Whether it is Robin Bain or the 29 dead Pike miners no consideration of there part must be looked into. An unspoken so called respect for the dead has to be upheld at all costs. To me why do we not go into the mine and find out what happened. It should be the police job to take all info from the area of the crime. And if they did it would be almost certain that a now melted lighter would be there but no doubt that would have to be hidden away.
Anyone ever ask about ACC and where they stand. Did the miners not die from an accident so why not ACC?
The gas In the mine would never have built up in the first place if the greenies had allowed a track above the mine to put breathing holes as I have said many time.
The govt cutting back on mine inspections has to be brought in question.

Finally just because NZO has money in the bank and Balance has a grudge against the company does not make it quality.
The worst outcome of PIKE may well be that some elements of the country are trying to make policy on the hop and before we accept that we should ask where that will leave us in the future if it suddenly become OK to invent policy after any accident. Will anyone with money in the bank be quility.
Lets open up the mine and see what happened.

You obviously have not bothered to read Brian Gaynor or Fran O'Sullivan articles or the Judge's comments carefully.

What does 'Total Lack of Remorse' mean to you?

As for trying to shift the blame to the Greenies - Pike River chose to go ahead, and instead of compensating to ensure safety, built and developed an unsafe mine. Management ignored every safety rules and procedures - did you read the Royal Commission of Inquiry Report?

Would you like a repeat of all the safety lapses in that mine?

[neopoleII]

yes digger, you are correct.
the mine has to be opened to see the true facts.
otherwise the speculation and opinions from judges, mine inspectors and commentators who do not know all the facts........ as no one has been into the mine .... could change
the landscape of our countries business law.

how hard is it really to vent a mine cavity and clear a rock fall and see what is happening?
the mine is now owned by a very large SOE that just happens to be broke, yet its a government entity, and this is a big national tragedy that shouldnt be left to sit while speculation and opinion is controlling legal outcomes.

whats to say this tragedy wasnt a terrorist attack? or a miner doing something wrong? or just faulty machinery?... or they unearthed an alien spaceship or a firebreathing taniwha?
the mine was built and planned to be a workable mine and cope with the gasses and contour of the mine....... yet something went wrong.
its time to have a look and TRULY understand what happened before our judiciary passes judgement with educated opinion and speculation.
and with opening the mine..... the families finally get what they wanted all along......... the return of their loved ones.

[Balance]

yes digger, you are correct.


whats to say this tragedy wasnt a terrorist attack? or a miner doing something wrong? or just faulty machinery?... or they unearthed an alien spaceship or a firebreathing taniwha?
the mine was built and planned to be a workable mine and cope with the gasses and contour of the mine....... yet something went wrong.
its time to have a look and TRULY understand what happened before our judiciary passes judgement with educated opinion and speculation.
and with opening the mine..... the families finally get what they wanted all along......... the return of their loved ones.

Methane = Explosion

http://www.listener.co.nz/commentary/the-internaut/pike-river-a-tragedy-that-should-never-have-happened/

"Despite the fact that monitoring and measuring of methane is one of the most fundamental aspects of risk management in underground coal mining, Pike had few methane sensors, they were poorly sited, and by the time of the explosion only one was working."

ONE was working!

"There were warnings contained in the reports of underground deputies and workers who had, for months, been reporting incidents of excess methane and other health and safety problems. In the 48 days before the explosion, there were 21 reports of methane reaching explosive concentrations (between 5 and 15% in volume of air), and another 27 reports of lesser but still potentially dangerous volumes. “The reports of excess methane continued up to the very morning of the tragedy. The warnings were not heeded,” the report says."