BLT - Blis Technologies

[simla]

And why do you think that is simla? Consistent underperformance, that's why. Year on year.

Here's the framework I'm looking at it with.

Three or four years ago, the company proposed selling Blis k12 as an ingredient in other manufacturers' products. This would give access to many thousands more outlets around the world, and those manufacturers would provide the marketing resource.

Three obvious questions then: (a) Is that a good idea? (b) Can the company implement it? (c) Will it pay off.

(a) It seems a good idea, as trying to sell the Blis product directly around the world is a vast undertaking. The shareholders vote to proceed, and the preference shares are issued.

(b) Can the company implement it? At first the company bolts away at it. But soon regulatory problems arise, as the world's governments simultaneously strongly tighten the rules around supplements and food additives, presumably following the recent rise of worldwide commercial lobby groups. This makes it much harder to get permission, and very hard to advertise supplements.

Blis battles on, and gets through nearly all barriers. Europe still to go, where even huge companies are frustrated. But it takes longer and costs more. I'm impressed that they made so much progress even though it took longer than expected and cost more.

(c) Will it pay off? We can't know that until (b) is complete, but (b) just about is done now it would appear. It looked almost complete after June last year with both GRAS and China. But then unexpectedly we have spent about a year coping with a change in worldwide distributor, which the company hopes will make GRAS pay off the better.

Many of you have been arguing that the company wasn't gettng far enough on (c), but I've been arguing for a year or two that it first needed to get past (b), and that it was jumping the gun until then.


Well, assuming the company raises capital now, and assuming the world doesn't find a new way of collapsing, it seems to me the company will have finally more or less reached (c). So, will it pay off?

The trade-off for doing ingredients is that the company doesn't have control over the selling process and marketing of the other manufacturers' products. So we now have a range of products, and hopefully more in GRAS, but little control over how much resource these companies want to put in to selling the products.

Supplements look like they are a slower growing market. If manufacturers are restricted in being able to advertise the benefits, then this segment may go as it has in NZ. Get there in the end, but take time.

GRAS will hopefully provide faster results. It is apparently okay to directly advertise the health claims for GRAS, which is a huge plus. Also, manufacturers should see payoff in making a splash about the health benefit of a particular yoghurt etc. But first we need to see one or more such products hit the market, of course.


So, soonish we find out if this will pay off? How long is soonish? I don't know at all. I have my own yardstick, but I won't say it, as it is a total guess. The obvious first milestone we want to see is achieving cashflow-positive.

Whatever happens next, we're only really going to see progress by looking at the six-monthly company reports. Patience is still needed. There is still the uncomfortable possibility of this not paying off. If so, I won't be rewriting history and saying I should never have invested. I made my choice, knowing it was uncertain, and I won't try to pretend otherwise. But actually, I'm still pretty optimistic of the chances. I'll feel better when the next capital raising is complete, of course.

Well, that's how I'm looking at it anyway. I'm sure you all have your own ideas.

So what actually happens next? I don't know. We'll see.

[Chippie]

it is a classic risk versus rewards scenario. For me
1. The company has just stated that there is a risk that we will be out of capital by this time next year. So they are responsible to ensure that this risk is mitigated and raise more money. This is not new news since the last captial raising.
2. I actually put in an order to buy on Friday as there is no doubt that was an example of panic selling. Off course there is still a chance that all our investments could be worth nothing in 12 months. There is however a chance that the shares will be worth alot more.
3. My biggest concern is if the company goes belly up we can not get the product anymore. I swear by the product and it has taken care of my own cronic bad breath (after many years of missery) and it keep the bugs at bay for the kids during winter.
Best of luck!

[blissfool]

That fat lady maybe warming up, but shes not singing yet. Things are dire but we have a great product here, 12 months to find extra capital, investment from a new partner or govt funding for new product. Plus sales growth .3M last six months, $1.4M this six months, china underway and USA back in the game. It aint over yet, its extremely tough, but it aint over.

[THEONE]

Along as the many other posters on this forum, I have lost allot of money.
However I think the company has done a great job and achieved allot with such little funds.

Barry Richardson and the Directors hold plenty of shares, so I am sure they are doing the best.
I think the strategies and thinking have been good.

Now allot of the hard work has been done,, siginificant expenses paid for.
GRAS, China, GIC etc

At the end of the day Blis has fixed costs around 1.5 million, after that most of it will be profit.
After all it is just bacteria, which is very cheap to make.

A good example is Biogaia.

It will be an interesting next few months, but not a time to give up yet. See how GRAS and China go.
Also M18 and Q24 and Blis functional foods.

They have great products.

For me the main worry is dilution with an equity raising hopefully not at 2cents,, Hopefully shareholders will get to participate. I also do not want to see Blis delisted.

I would subscribe to another capital raising if offered.

This is just my own opinion and I have been very wrong in the past. But now is not the time to give up as a couple of good deals can quickly change the situation.

I dont think much has changed since before the announcement,, it was obvious that another capital raising was highly likely.

One area which I think Blis could do better is with announcements.....but i appreciate it must be hard with regulations etc

[THEONE]

I also think its admirable the directors are giving up their fee.

[timmy]

I would agree with you regarding their website, more like a scam/junk web than anything else. Blic should give up their internet advanturer as they don't have a clue the difference beteen online shopping and online scam

[emearg]

I have already expressed by negative feelings about the website so I won't repeat them. One possibility I hadn't considered until today is that one of their target audiences will use the website, even if they fear it is a scam. The audience is those who suffer from bad breath. Many will be desperate for a solution and willing to take a chance.

Others, those worried about getting a cold etc probably won't. And that is a larger chunk of the population.

I think the reaction to the news last week was completely overdone. As noted by others most of the news isn't news.

Personally I was pleased by several things in the announcement:
A reasonable recovery in sales in the second half. I do wonder how much came from BFF though?
Having externals reviewing the strategy and finance. Smart people involve other smart people. This is very positive in my view as it means they clearly know they are in trouble and are looking for solutions i.e. they aren't going to watch the ship go down without looking at ways to plug the holes
Having externals solicit capital. Rather than just Barry and the board doing this like they did back in 2007, they are widening the net.
Preserving cash by issuing shares for the last dividend. This is good at a big picture level even though I personally would prefer the cash...
Directors giving up their fees. Personally I would prefer the fee was paid in shares, at an issue price of 10cents per share in three years time. That would be more motivating and doesn't cost Blis anything now.

I'm unhappy about the following:
I would like to have seen Barry give up some/all of his salary for shares at an issue price of 10cents per share in three years time. His payment is a big chunk of expenditure and while I think he is worth it, Blis can't afford the cash right
now.

I'm neutral about the delisting as I don't understand the implications. Can somebody shed some light? Obviously it is good for expenditure (no NZX fees, they don't have to keep extra money in the bank, less compliance) but certainly strips away some credibility and accessibility to current and future owners (like us right now). What else is bad about it? What happens to our shares for example?

Unlike some people commenting on this site I actually think Blis have delivered on a lot in the last few years but it hasn't resulted in the revenues we expected. Blis moved from basically being a NZ supplier of pills with a few bad breath websites around the world to being a supplier to many manufactures who have 50 odd products in a dozen (?) countries is a significant achievement. Simla no doubt knows how many people now have access to K12 and/or M18 in their countries as I have lost count but with China on board I would think over two billion now. Big difference from 4 years ago when it was basically 4.5 million. It seems reasonable to assume that annual revenue from international sales will probably be at least half a million moving forward. That is just based on the scale as I understand it.

GRAS. They got it. Took forever (well it certainly felt like it) but they got it! That opens significant doors. Possibly very large doors. If they get somebody significant to add our germs into a widely distributed yoghurt or ice-cream then things will look considerably brighter quickly. This may happen before they run out of money. Certainly possible. I'm just very glad they aren't relying on that possibility coming to fruition before realising they are out of cash!

Should they ask me for some more money (through a rights option) I will look very hard at it.

Simla, I hope I haven't sent you into shock with me being reasonably positive? :)

[simla]

Just a tad, Emearg. That's more positive than you've been for a couple of years!

[winner69]

I think the reaction to the news last week was completely overdone. As noted by others most of the news isn't news.


Cmon graeme - a lot of that ann is new news .... or if nothing else the first admission that things are really DIRE - if not terminal

Getting 'externals' to do the capital raising is prob an admission that 'Barry and the board' have had a negative response from the bigger shareholders .... they don't want to put in much more dosh ..... to survive they need new shareholders and they will drive a hard bargain methinks .... current shareholders significantly diluted

One thing ... I admire your guys optimism and total support of these decent guys

[simla]

I'm perfectly happy admitting I'd prefer the profit news to be otherwise. It's been a tale of two halves for a while: excellent growth in business development/potential, but with revenue not growing so fast. Both supporters and naysayers have the same problem: interpreting these two halves to guess which will win out - and one of them surely will - which is why none of us are sure.

The Board probably have an idea where funding is going. They already own a good chunk of the company, and therefore are a good source of the next funding if they want to, and if shareholders are to be asked again. And a low conversion price will grow the position of the preference shareholders, as I understand it, meaning the Board are in a position to put in proportionately more money still next time than last, if they want to, and so will other preference shareholders be - again, as I understand the situation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So, an outside fund raiser could mean they want new investors, or it could just mean they want to be squeaky clean about putting in more themselves. Or it could be something quite unrelated to any of that.

We're all agreed that we would love some clearly unambiguous news. But patience seems the only choice in finding out where this is going. But, yeah, they're decent folks. Been watching Otago Rugby lately, for example? Decent people have achieved a lot of good things throughout history. Will it help here? No idea.

[simla]

(perhaps).. to survive they need new shareholders and they will drive a hard bargain methinks .... current shareholders significantly diluted

Well, I've had a week to think about the company's statement now, and I'm not convinced by that view. It's certainly a possible outcome - as it is with any issue - but I can't see that as the most obvious reading.

The suggestion that the bigger holders don't want to put in cash is possible, but there's no evidence to support it, is there? The big holders DID put in cash last September, we assume, in the middle of a global panic.

An equally plausible explanation is that about 500 people bought into the prefs, but only 179 attended the issue just 2 years later, and then only for an average of $3800 (at a time when the media was telling us the whole world would collapse within weeks, let's not forget, which it didn't.) It's perfectly reasonable that the board consider other sources of cash as well therefore, and that may be all that the statement was saying.

Having said that, reality will obviously dictate what happens this time, regardless of intentions. I await further news with interest. Obviously we'll all be more comfortable when we know where the capital raising is going.

However, that's just my view. I know nothing more than anyone else.


In the meantime, I've emailed the company indicating how much I might be willing to put in next time, assuming suitable terms are offered. I assume that's useful information to them.

[simla]

Some of you guys might like to see the graph on page 2 of this product pdf, showing the persistence of K12 in the mouth in days. http://www.evolvingnutrition.com/Vendor%20Product%20Information/Protocol/P2921%20ENT%20Tech%20Sheet.pdf

[simla]

The ice cream situation in Wellington has improved over the last few months. My earlier reports of times of being out of stock seem to have ended, and the product is available now in 11 of 18 NW supermarkets in Greater Wellington, with all the larger stores carrying it now. I would estimate that as about 80% by volume market availability here now.

To judge by what I'm seeing here in Wellington, I would expect BFF to show a profit this coming year - depending on profit margins, availability around the rest of the country, and whether K12 products create extra development costs. I'm guessing the BFF loss of last year was partly startup costs, and also restricted sales by simply not being available widely, but it will be interesting to hear more detail in the next report. It's certainly taken a while to get up a wide steady availability here in Wellington, and I've no idea how much of the rest of the country it is available in. Wellington is a bit over 10% of NZ's population. (Contrary to rumour, millions of New Zealanders do actually live outside of Auckland!)

In brief, the ice cream still appears to be selling steadily here, but is now available across most of Greater Wellington and with steady availability and reasonable stocking levels in most stores. Good.

[simla]

Hey, the company has the job of providing the facts and figures that investors need, not me. I'm not trying to talk anyone into anything, just reporting publicly available news as it comes to my notice, as usual. That's what I've seen in Wellington, so I report it. And I'd be happy for someone else to report on ice cream availability elsewhere...

[emearg]

Lots of Google alerts today for a new study about Blis K12 and oral thrush.

Here is one summary article:
http://www.esmingredients.com/main-feed/in-vitro-data-of-blis-k12%E2%84%A2-evaluating-effects-on-growth-of-oral-candidiasis-published-in-applied-and-environmental-microbiology/

Interesting stuff. Around 35% of infants suffer from it. Another good reason to get Mums to take K12 before giving birth? It is common among adults under certain circumstances.

Good to see Stratum giving this a push...

[brucea]

Lots of Google alerts today for a new study about Blis K12 and oral thrush.

Here is one summary article:
http://www.esmingredients.com/main-feed/in-vitro-data-of-blis-k12%E2%84%A2-evaluating-effects-on-growth-of-oral-candidiasis-published-in-applied-and-environmental-microbiology/

Interesting stuff. Around 35% of infants suffer from it. Another good reason to get Mums to take K12 before giving birth? It is common among adults under certain circumstances.

Good to see Stratum giving this a push...

Thanks Emearg -the article mentions "These findings suggest that S. salivarius K12 may inhibit the process of invasion of C. albicans into mucous surfaces or its adhesion to denture acrylic resins by mechanisms not associated with the antimicrobial activity of the bacteriocin and may be useful as a probiotic for oral care, especially with regard to candidiasis." I wonder if K12 would be of use for those who wear dental devices when used as an overnight soaking agent. My understanding is that dental devices made of plastic contain micro pores where bacteria etc can colonise and thus produce the effect called "denture breath".
These past months have been a disappointing time for us Blis shareholders but I am philosophic as I understood it was always a risky investment - that said I still believe it is a great product, albeit one that needs innovative marketing to realise its full potential.

[simla]

These past months have been a disappointing time for us Blis shareholders but I am philosophic as I understood it was always a risky investment - that said I still believe it is a great product, albeit one that needs innovative marketing to realise its full potential.
Yes, it's all about the marketing from here on in by the look of it. The company paid a big price to change global distributor/marketer, and we must assume they are hoping for some advantage on this front as the pay back?

What fascinates me, though, is how cheerful so many posters here are now. I confess that my own instinct is that things will work out from here, but it is hard to put together a water-tight argument to that effect. I suppose we'll have a better idea over the next month or two. Capital raising is the current issue to deal with.

Yes, the candida thing is yet another endorsement of the product. How to communicate all this advantage to consumers, that's the key.

[Nigel]

good news out today. the company definitely has a very good product - and by the looks of things, a good marketing partner. good luck to holders - if there's enough money to keep this thing afloat, your ship will come in eventually! (just a matter of when!) Accepting the massive risk involved, it seems like good buying at these levels! however, i'd only invest what i was prepared to lose - you could make 10x on this stock, or lose it all.

[brucea]

Good grief Nigel - don't tempt fate by referring to "Your ship will come in eventually", given we have just had the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic!!

good news out today. the company definitely has a very good product - and by the looks of things, a good marketing partner. good luck to holders - if there's enough money to keep this thing afloat, your ship will come in eventually! (just a matter of when!) Accepting the massive risk involved, it seems like good buying at these levels! however, i'd only invest what i was prepared to lose - you could make 10x on this stock, or lose it all.

[Nigel]

Good grief Nigel - don't tempt fate by referring to "Your ship will come in eventually", given we have just had the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic!!

Nice work Bruce :)

[simla]

The thing to remember about Blis is that it is an alternative to antibiotics in some situations.

"Dr Chan said we could be entering into a “post-antibiotic era”...“Things as common as strep throat or a child’s scratched knee could once again kill." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9147414/Resistance-to-antibiotics-could-bring-the-end-of-modern-medicine-as-we-know-it-WHO-claim.html

"Already 25,000 Europeans die every year from antibiotic-resistant infections," http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9190466/Life-wont-be-the-same-without-antibiotics.html

Blis is a fantastic discovery for mankind. It already saves much suffering amongst people who use it, and I have no doubt it will save lives in future as antibiotics become more feeble. The strep throat is one example, surely.

I don't know what the future is for BLT any more than anyone else, but I think it most likely the product itself will certainly survive now. All we're arguing about is how much that might profit the existing shareholders now.

If the product survives, I will be immensely pleased to have played a small part in launching that into the world through providing money to the company promoting it. This product is such a very significant discovery that I will always count my very small contribution to that as nevertheless something I will be proud of for the rest of my life.

From the low response of shareholders to the last issue, I have to assume that very many people have not considered the enormity of this discovery for mankind. Sounds melodramatic, I know, but actually it's true.

[simla]

"A new product is the 20mg BLIS K12™ in ice cream punnets which are now available in some NZ stores. Similar ice cream products can be expected to appear in the USA so look for new BLIS K12™ food products in food stores!" http://yanimon.com/blis-k12/ear-infection.html

Yanimon has been doing a good job promoting Blis K12 for a while now, and has been known to post here from time to time. Good on you for being proactive. I'm not sure where you got that from though, as I haven't seen it elsewhere. Good to hear K12 ice cream is on sale in some stores now. I wonder how imminent the US bit is, or is that just GRAS generally?

[brucea]

Thanks Simla - good to read your positive words, rather than recent doom and gloom comments from others. I hope Blis survives for the purely selfish reason that I use it every day, and hope to continue so. Is the ice cream available in Auckland yet? I understand it is the low fat variety, which would fit in well with for my health and fitness goals; incidentally for anyone wanting to track their calorific intake there are some excellent free websites available. I use "Myfitnesspal" site and I will add the Blis ice cream to their data base when I get the nutritional info on it ....since joining the site I have gone from 79 to 70 kg in two months, and during this period I continued with my daily low fat ice cream fix.... which I just cannot give up.......

[simla]

Thanks, Brucea. I'll obviously be happier when the capital raising is achieved and is satisfactory to existing shareholders. Impressive weight loss, good luck.

[THEONE]

I think this a new one its hard keeping track
http://organixsouth.com/toothpowder-mint.html

Ironically I would be better off if Blis Shares keep falling over the next few weeks as I hold so many Preference shares. If my calculations are correct.

All things being equal of course regarding capital raising etc

Will be an interesting few months. I wonder if Blis will do a wellington drive type issue?

My guess is a rights issue to all shareholders,, then after maybe Eion Edgar will make offer to "mop up" other shareholders at a low price and end up with around 70% of company with Barry Richardson and Directors holding a large percentage of the remaining shares. Then delist.

Eion Edgar is in a great position,, if he still believes in the Blis story.
Blis could be a real cash cow.
He seems like a nice guy, i remember seeing him on tv3 donating to Otago rugby creditors.
Would be great if he can donate to the poor Blis shareholders. haha

It would be interesting how much they could get if they sold Blis, surely would be worth at least 20 million plus to the right buyer. With Gras and China approval etc.

It would be cheaper to buy Blis than research and develop a product.

An interesting company is Biostime in China who make allot of money selling probiotics in China.

It would be interesting to learn the strength of the Chinese distributor.

My thinking is things surely only get better, but be wary of the rights issue and be prepared to participate

[simla]

With Anzac Day upon us, your post is poignant, TheOne. You are just speculating, of course, but that speculation is only possible because of the overwhelming apathy of the shareholders. Let's admit it, over 90% of shareholders didn't make a contribution at the last issue.

"Never was so much owed by so many to so few". So said Churchill of the Battle of Britain, in which the British Air Force held the onslaught of Hitler.

The world has so many problems ahead now. The Global Financial Crisis is far from dealt with. Add in Climate Change. Antibiotic Resistance. Peak Oil. Water shortages. Environmental damage. Top soil depletion. Food issues. Everything shortage. Political instability.

Anzac Day commemorates people pulling together for the common good. But where do we see people pulling together today? A striking feature of the current financial crisis is the near complete absence of people pulling together.

The company has an achievable victory within sight now, or so believe a number of posters here anyway. Yet the company is now wasting its efforts scrambling around looking for capital because so few shareholders gave a helping hand last issue.

People seem to understand that our ancestors built this country that we enjoy, but so few seem to understand the need to build our future again now. I am sad that Blis is still facing problems, but way more sad that people seem so unwilling to pull together on so many fronts. I am very grateful that this small group here engages in the world to achieve things, and that the small group in Dunedin very much does that too.

The phrase for Anzac Day is "we will remember them." Some will, anyway.

[simla]

By the way, most people don't know that the British won Gallipoli - including the British! The objective was not to win Gallipoli, but to take the Dardanelles, the strait between Turkey and Europe.

"Three months later, a British and French fleet that included 18 battleships, attempted to force its way through to Constantinople. Three capital ships were lost and three crippled. Unknown to the Allies, the Turkish gun batteries had almost exhausted their ammunition supplies in this effort, and the fleet could have sailed on through the straits with little further damage. Instead, [they sailed away, and decided to attack on land at Gallipoli to take the big guns out.]" http://www.anzacsite.gov.au/1landing/why.html

Had they just continued, history would have been very different. Arguably a stack of the 20th century would have turned out very differently. Interestingly, Anzac is taken as being formative moments for both NZ and Australia. And Ataturk didn't mind. He was a leading light at Gallipoli, and went on to dramatically rewrite Turkish history, of course.

[emearg]

Yet the company is now wasting its efforts scrambling around looking for capital because so few shareholders gave a helping hand last issue.

Actually they have engaged a third party to do this so it shouldn't prove to be as distracting as one may fear.

[emearg]

I think this a new one its hard keeping track

It certainly is but we found that one a little while back.

K12:
Natures Plus - Adult's Ear, Nose & Throat Lozenges with K12 Probiotics -- Tropical Cherry
Natures Plus - Animal Parade® Children's Chewable Inner Ear Support
Swanson - Ultra Oral Probiotic
Imagenetix - Bioguard
Solaray - Oral Flora
VegLife - Ear, Nose & Throat Shield
LEF - Advanced Oral Hygiene
Biogenesis - Pro Flora Oral Health Chewables
Epoca (Japanese market)
Healthy Directions - Ear, Nose & Throat Defense
True Botanicas - True Defense™
True Botanicas - True Defense for Adults
Cultured Care - Probiotic Gum
KSS66 (as at Dec 2011 this company appears to have sunk)
Bio-Kick Throat Shield Daily (rebranded Blis Throat Guard Daily)
Bio-Kick Throat Shield Strong (rebranded Blis Throat Guard Boost)
OralHealth PLUS
NOW OralBiotic
E.N.T Biotic
Pro-S Daily Lozenges
Ora-Probiotic
Garden of Life - Raw Cleanse
Biotect (Japanese market)
Bio Protect (Japanese Market)
Wynlife All-In-One Probiotics
Institute for Specialised Medicine - Oral Probiotic Blis K12
entraFresh
Blis Balance (Japanese market) - no longer available? Jan 12
Lorodent Adult and Lorodent Children (Russian market)
Darapet halitosis (Swiss market for dogs)
Wysong Dentatatreat - Canine/Feline Tooth Powder
Anlit Yomi Blis
Neem Tooth & Gum Powder (Mint or Cinnamon)
Dulce Nutritionals DentX
Dentacorp Freshadent
SupHerb Bio Blis
SupHerb Bio Blis Kids
U!be Smile
Brochure
BACTOBLIS 20
KForce
Aktiv-k12
Blis Throat Guard Daily
Blis Throat Guard Boost
Blis Travel Guard
Blis Bio Restore
Blis Fresh Breath Kit
Blis Rapid Eze Gargle (is this product still available??)

M18:
Natures Plus - Animal Parade® Tooth Fairy™ Children’s Chewable Dental Probiotic
Natures Plus - Adult’s Dental Care Probiotic Lozenges - Peppermint
Premier Research Labs - DentaVen
Pair Dental Probiotic Blis M18

Includes K12 and M18:
Natures Plus - Whole Food Total Body Cleanse with Açai (Vegetarian Capsules)
Natures Plus - Ultra Lipoic™ Bi-Layered Mini-Tab
Natures Plus - Ultra Lipoic™ Bi-Layered Tablets
Natures Plus - Ultra Probiotics Vegetarian Capsules
Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® For Him Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® For Her Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® Immune Booster Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Tablets
Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Vcaps
Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Mini-Tabs
Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Energy Shake - Tropical Berry (available in two product formats (can or packet))
Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Chewables - Tropical Fruit
Garden of Life - Immune Balance™ Rapid Extra Strength
Natures Plus - Source of Life® Animal Parade® GOLD Children's Chewable Multi - Cherry Flavor
Natures Plus - Miracle Essentials™ Tablets -- Multi-Vitamin Boosting Supplement
TheraBreath MultiSympton Probiotic
Jarro-Dophilus Oral Probiotic - lozenge and gum products
Carotec Oral Probiotic

[simla]

Thanks for keeping the list, Emearg.

[simla]

I don't yet think it's as important as penicillin was decades ago.

Here's one example of a possible implication of Blis in a non-antibiotic world.

"A large study ... showed that children who [had blis k12] had 47% less acquisition of [strep throat]" http://blis.co.nz/strep-throat

"...The rate of development of rheumatic fever in individuals with untreated strep infection [ie no antibiotics] is estimated to be 3% ...[rheumatic fever] is serious and has a case-fatality rate of 2–5%. ... The recurrence of rheumatic fever is relatively common in the absence of maintenance of low dose antibiotics,..[Also]Heart complications may be long-term and severe, particularly if valves are involved." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheumatic_fever

"Infectious disease physicians are alarmed [that effective antibiotics may not be available] in the near future ... a global public health disaster appears likely" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_resistance


So what will we do if/when the antibiotics wear out?

"Archaeocins is the name given to a new class of potentially useful antibiotics". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_resistance I can't pin it down, but Blis is somehow connected to that line of research as far as I can tell, BLIS stands for Bacteriocin-Like Inhibitory Substance, and a synonym for bacteriocin is "protein antibiotic". Archaeocins are produced by organisms, as Blis is.

I can't tell you exactly what use Blis will be as antibiotics become an issue, as they already are becoming, but the above example suggests we would be way better with it than without it. Of course, they can't market it that way as the antibiotics still work pretty well, although already people die from their not working. You no doubt noticed that another superbug just arrived in NZ though http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/6807616/New-warnings-over-superbug-cases-in-NZ

Sorry I can't be clearer about the connection of antibiotics and Blis, but the example at least shows it exists.

[simla]

An upbeat interview interview with Blis published yesterday, although it doesn't tell us a lot. http://unlimited.co.nz/unlimited.nsf/innovation/bright-hopes

[simla]

It's shameful that nobody reads these days. It's so relevant to so much happening in the world these days.

[emearg]

It's shameful that nobody reads these days.

Gosh...really? I thought I read but maybe I don't?

[simla]

Gosh...really? I thought I read but maybe I don't?

Apparently not, Emearg ... I actually remarked that preference shareholders should remember the meaning of "two-edged sword".

[Chippie]

someone is dumping a few BLT shares today. I could not help but pick up a few at these prices.

[Chippie]

Someone is either dumping shares becuase they no longr believe in BLT. Or else they are trying to ensure the share price is low leading into the Preference Shares conversation date of 8 May becuase they do beleive in BLT and want to double the amount of shares they will be issued for the pref shares.

My gut feeling is that someone with a lot of preference shares is keeping the price low.

Either that or I am a mad gambler throwing money away :)

[simla]

Can't say I'm enjoying watching the action in the market at present, Chippie. But I'm impressed with your nerve.

[Bobby_Fischer]

Someone is either dumping shares becuase they no longr believe in BLT. Or else they are trying to ensure the share price is low leading into the Preference Shares conversation date of 8 May becuase they do beleive in BLT and want to double the amount of shares they will be issued for the pref shares.

My gut feeling is that someone with a lot of preference shares is keeping the price low.

Either that or I am a mad gambler throwing money away :)

Someone is dumping shares. Once the SP fell below 4 cents (has been for over a month now) and stayed there the conversion ratio would be fixed at 25:1.

Edit: I should delete this post because I am wrong - the maximum conversion ratio is 100:1, so you are most probably right Chippie - every incentive for those with a large position in preference shares to try to keep the price of the ordinaries down.

[emearg]

Someone is either dumping shares becuase they no longr believe in BLT. Or else they are trying to ensure the share price is low leading into the Preference Shares conversation date of 8 May becuase they do beleive in BLT and want to double the amount of shares they will be issued for the pref shares.

My gut feeling is that someone with a lot of preference shares is keeping the price low.

Either that or I am a mad gambler throwing money away :)

Well thanks from me to those currently trading the price down. I will benefit nicely on conversion and dividend day. The more preference shares you hold the better news this is. If you don't hold any/many then it will dilute your holding terribly. Harsh but at least it benefits the people who were willing to back Blis a few years ago by injecting new capital.

[simla]

Well, there's no denying it. BLT is one of the more interesting stocks on the market.

[pierre]

So the Preference Share conversion rate is 1.342c per share and the preference divvy is also paid in Ordinary Shares at the same rate? That means for my 2000 preference shares plus my $100 dividend I'm going to receive 156482 Ordinaries.

Whoopee - I've never owned so many shares in one company! Pity they're worth bugger all! Still...... maybe ..... one day........ (Tui advertisement follows).

[simla]

And with yet another news release made, I can only say it again: BLT is one of the more interesting stocks on the market.

[neopoleII]

i really like the half a billion shares on issue!
i wonder when the 100 to 1 consolidation is going to happen?
then we can watch the 90cent shares rise..... or fall.

would be nice though to see the share price return to its ipo price....... that would make it an interesting stock..... when is m18 going to available in the country that it was developed in?

and..... how much of the $4.8 mill company value is attributed to the ice cream company?

please disregard this post....... its friday evening and i have finished my week working my butt off earning a fair dollar..... and then read the above posts.

[stoploss]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6906754/NZX-probes-Blis-anomaly

[winner69]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6906754/NZX-probes-Blis-anomaly

I see the name of that esteemed chairman of that Dunedin based broking company mentioned in this dispatch .... I might be a bit thick but that name seems to crop up quite often where there's a bit of 'intrigue' ... or am I mistaken

[simla]

please disregard this post....... its friday evening and i have finished my week working my butt off earning a fair dollar..... and then read the above posts.
Understandable, NeopoleII. From your previous posts I'd guess you weren't long on preference shares. You can hardly have enjoyed that conversion price. You and others no doubt.

[emearg]

Not helpful for Blis.

It certainly won't help the good will factor on the board!

Pretty smart of EEN to do this if they can get away with it...although they should have started earlier to drag the price down quicker. Pretty smart if they can get away with it because they get cash back in their pocket and end up with more shares than if they had done nothing.

Is it legit though? I will watch this one with anticipation. Other than fining EEN not much can be done retrospectively?

[emearg]

I see the name of that esteemed chairman of that Dunedin based broking company mentioned in this dispatch .... I might be a bit thick but that name seems to crop up quite often where there's a bit of 'intrigue' ... or am I mistaken

I don't know if you are correct or not but personally I'm in favour of a few people inside Blis not being quite so decent and doing what it takes to make a success of things. A decent strategist or three is exactly what Blis needs.

[percy]

[QUOTE=emearg;373856]It certainly won't help the good will factor on the board!

Just driven any good will right out the door.Stupid thing to do.!!!

[winner69]

he good folks
I don't know if you are correct or not but personally I'm in favour of a few people inside Blis not being quite so decent and doing what it takes to make a success of things. A decent strategist or three is exactly what Blis needs.

Weren't you the one raving on how 'decent' the good folks at BLS were (apologies if somebody else) .... this sort of carry on is not 'decent' but you seem to condone it if it is the means to a better ending

[emearg]

Weren't you the one raving on how 'decent' the good folks at BLS were (apologies if somebody else) .... this sort of carry on is not 'decent' but you seem to condone it if it is the means to a better ending

No...that was another

[emearg]

More positively, the last three press releases from Stratum have been for K12 & M18.

Here is the latest one FYI:
BLIS K12 for Kids Immunity and M18 for Dental Health launching at Vitafoods
8 May 2012 (Reus, Spain) - Stratum Nutrition, a Novus International Business focusing on nutrition through functional and specialty ingredients, has formally added BLIS K12™ and BLIS M18™ oral probiotics to their specialty product portfolio. Stratum will be showcasing these oral and dental health ingredients at Vitafoods Europe, 22-24 May 2012 in Geneva, stand #1189.


BLIS K12™ and BLIS M18™ are specific strains of Streptococcus salivarius (S. salivarius), some of the most important, numerous and beneficial bacteria found in the mouth of healthy individuals. These probiotic strains secrete powerful antimicrobial molecules called BLIS: Bacteriocin-Like-Inhibitory Substances specifically targeting various pathogens. “Both strains have robust science support” says Karsten Brandt, Ph.D., Nutritional Science Manager from Stratum Nutrition “their beneficial influence on upper respiratory health, immune support, and the health of teeth and gums – all of which are affected by pathogens that enter our body through the mouth have been extensively evaluated”.

BLIS K12™ is an oral probiotic providing inhibitory activity against bacteria involved in upper respiratory tract infections such as sore throat, otitis media, and tonsillitis, and is especially indicated for children. The K12 strain was originally discovered as scientists tracked the oral bacteria of a healthy child that did not develop sore throats for several years. Since then, several clinical trials – both intervention as well as population-based studies - have demonstrated BLIS K12™ to support our bodies’ natural immune system defenses against upper respiratory tract infections.

BLIS M18™ is an oral probiotic that supports healthy teeth and gums. BLIS M18 is a naturally occurring strain that positively populates the oral cavity with beneficial bacteria providing a less hospitable environment for other opportunistic bacteria like Streptococcus mutans (S. mutans) to thrive. In addition to the BLIS antimicrobial molecules, it has been shown to have the extra advantage of producing unique enzymes that allow helping protect against dental plaque and neutralize acid. The EFSA has recognized that a reduction of colonization with S. mutans, a reduction of dental plaque, and an increase in plaque pH have been associated with reduction in the incidence of dental caries. Furthermore, plaque acid neutralization, or the reduction of acid in dental plaque, may prevent demineralization and promote remineralisation. M18 is a new generation of advanced probiotic, friendly bacteria that can be used in conjunction with regular oral hygiene practices to establish a healthy balance of bacteria in the mouth and naturally help protect the teeth and gums from oral and dental pathogens.

BLIS Technologies Limited, producer of BLIS probiotics, selected Stratum Nutrition as their exclusive distribution partner for United States, Canada, Europe, and other regions as of December 1, 2011. Michael Faber, World Area Business Manager Europe & Asia says that he is very confident that this new partnership will allow Stratum Nutrition to develop its presence into the supplement market in Europe and Asia with very unique products, backed up with strong science support.

Stratum Nutrition will be showcasing BLIS probiotics during Vitafood, 22-24 May 2012 in Geneva. To learn more about BLIS K12™ and BLIS M18™, visit stand #1189 or email eusales@stratumnutrition.com to schedule a meeting. If you need to receive information, please contact Celine Cousin: celine.cousin@stratumnutrition.com, European and Asian marketing coordinator.

[emearg]

I note New World Metro in Willis has been out of Gourmet Icecream for two weeks. Is this because manufacturing can't keep up (which is hardly a good thing) or because New World are dropping this line? If they are dropping it is it just at NW Metro or more widely? I will watch with interest...

[timmy]

I note New World Metro in Willis has been out of Gourmet Icecream for two weeks. Is this because manufacturing can't keep up (which is hardly a good thing) or because New World are dropping this line? If they are dropping it is it just at NW Metro or more widely? I will watch with interest...

my guess new world droped the line, and this co can not understand the market and the position of its own product. can not understand why it lack of fund and go on to purchas a GOURMET ICE CREAM MAKER

[simla]

Guys! Enough with the panic already!


Ice Cream:

I just visited 8 NW supermarkets south of Johnsonville in Wellington. 6 had stock, with an average of 13 punnets each. Not bad for a Saturday afternoon.

Willis Street was out of stock. It's a very high turnover shop with small shelf space. I've emailed the company to tell them it's an odd store for what it's worth. The 8th has never had it, but 12 of 19 in Wellington had stock recently I think.

So, ice cream: just fine.


NZX enquiry:

(a) We don't know what transactions they are investigating as nobody has said. Yes, it could be the SSH notice ones, or it could be other ones, or it could be the SSH plus others. We probably won't ever find out if they rule there is no problem.

(b) The NZX and FMA have quite a bit of power to deal with things. If they rule there is a problem, then the response could range from nothing much to pretty involved. We'll find out. Hopefully they will make an initial ruling quickly.

(c) Decent people: Yes, the independent directors decided an umpire call was indicated, so they called for it. Irrespective of whether that was right or wrong, it's great to have independent directors taking their job seriously. I see no conflict between being decent and being effective.

(d) Personally I will be interested to hear the result. A lot of the company moved from the ordinary shareholders to the preference shareholders, and reasonable care would seem justified. I didn't enjoy the conversion process myself.


Preference dilution:

Actually, this wasn't perhaps as dramatic as people think. Those who feel they have a ton of shares worth not a lot might have been thinking this already!

At a 4 cent conversion, we would have had 178m ordinaries, and 105m preference conversions. Thus the ordinaries would have had 63% of the company, and the prefs 37%. At 1.342 cents, we had 178m and 311m from prefs. Thus ordinaries got 37% and the prefs 65%. Thus the two classes only increased and decreased by a factor of 1.7.

Afterwards, as we stand now, everybody's shares are actually worth quite a bit less due to the dramatic drop in share price. And there is a capital raising in the wind.

Personally I would have gone for the 4 cent conversion any day, but I'm sure not everyone agrees.

That's just my maths. Possibly I'm mistaken. Do your own maths if you want to rely on it.


The future:

Let's just remember that the events of the last few weeks haven't changed the company's strategic position that much, just the capital raising question, and possibly individual shareholder's positions.

It still has GRAS. Stratum have only been online for about 6 months, so probably we're not talking a lot of progress here yet, given the time to bring a product to market. But it's in train for sure.

It still has China. NZ companies don't have a long history of making money from China, but the deal is in place ready to go. Will the Chinese partner be pushing this barrow? Don't know, but some progress is surely to be expected.

It still has a ton of distributors. Not all of them seem to be making a lot of progress. But the web shows that some company's seem to be pushing their barrows. Now Foods appears in ever increasing web sites. They seem organised. U!be Smile in Japan seems to have a pretty organised approach. Therabreath are certainly being persistent about it. Russia is chipping away. Sales in NZ keep growing.

The two interesting questions for me are: cash, and shareholder position.

We know there is a capital raising. We don't know what support there is. Recent events seem likely to have an effect. A low share price raises the possibilty of quite a bit of dilution. At one cent a share, raising $1m will obviously dilute the company by 100m shares in 481m shares, or about one sixth. $2m would ... etc. Is the NZX enquiry capable of affecting the issue price? Don't know. And will existing shareholders get the chance to participate, and will they? And obviously the situation gets more interesting should there be difficulty raising sufficient cash.

So I'm pretty keen to see the next issue behind us. But if that goes okay, then the company still seems to me to have legs. Recent events on the market might at least be taken to imply that someone sees the company as being of value.


So, interesting times indeed. Perils in the wings? Maybe. A happy future? Still on the cards from where I'm sitting.

That's just my views though. Each to his own.

[Bobby_Fischer]

Another thing the NZX should now be looking into is the content, motivation and timing of the announcement on 22 March.

This uncharacteristically dour announcement (delisting/capital-raising/etc) might (positively) be seen as very rare candour from the board, as in the past it has been happy to leave the market in the dark prior to nasty surprises in the form of unexpectedly bad HY/FY results. However, not surprisingly the announcement also precipitated a significant sell-off, halving the SP from around 4 cents to just 2 cents in just one day. A somewhat convenient outcome for preference shareholders, since it never recovered from this position prior to the start of the pre-conversion pricing period.

In that regard I would be interested to learn how any conflict of interest was being managed at board level for directors controlling large preference share positions. In particular I would be interested to learn more about the genesis of the 22 March announcement and whether it was orchestrated in any way by any director or officer of the company with such a conflict of interest.

[Chippie]

I must say that that integrity of Tony Offen must be in question. As a director of BLIS his role was to increase value for existing shareholders, not making money for Edinburgh Equity Nominee. Really bad form. I had honestly thought it was someone like ACC dumping shares not a company under one of the BLT directors.

This is no good for other shareholders who invested in the original IPO etc.

[emearg]

Five small value trades made a significant percentage difference to the value of Blis today! I wonder which way things will go tomorrow? Has Blis been oversold in the last few weeks? Do people think it is undervalued at seven million? Hard to judge really. Any value is only based on potential and we are having to be rather patient on that front...

Small beer but I note New World Miramar now stocks GIC. Karori still doesn't but that NW is rubbish and will probably be the last NW in NZ to get it's act together!

[simla]

Up would be good. Lethargic shareholders, low share price. I'm pretty sure the company itself has a bright future now. I hope shareholders have enough spirit to ensure our place in that future. Now that the company has assembled most of the infrastructure it wanted, it's pretty disappointing that the last six months have suddenly turned into a story about the shareholders instead.

Does anyone remember this song?

Give me some men who are stout-hearted men
Who will fight for the right they adore.
Start me with ten, who are stout-hearted men
And I'll soon give you ten thousand more.

It goes on, "there's nothing in the world can halt or mar a plan, When stout-hearted men can stick together man to man!" Yes, but it starts with ten stout hearted men! I've watched the company's actions with much interest for the last three years. Now I find I'm forced to watch the shareholders with much interest. Most of them are showing few signs of life so far! We can only - as so often before - wait and see what happens next.

[Joshuatree]

Don't remember that one simla but do remember the shareholder song.It goes something like this "there were 10 green bottles hanging on the wall....." :)

[percy]

Was thinking "we are on the road to nowhere" by Talking Heads may be the right song,but on further thought "we are on the eve of destruction" by Barry McGuire seems to be more fitting. lol.

[fungus pudding]

Was thinking "we are on the road to nowhere" by Talking Heads may be the right song,but on further thought "we are on the eve of destruction" by Barry McGuire seems to be more fitting. lol.

I'm a loser by the Beatles might make a great anthem for investors.

[simla]

The prize goes to, "I can't get no satisfaction". Not bad. Also acceptable could have been, "It'll be all right though it's not quite paradise", by "Bliss"...

[percy]

The prize goes to, "I can't get no satisfaction". Not bad. Also acceptable could have been, "It'll be all right though it's not quite paradise", by "Bliss"...

Pleased our humour has not offended you.

[emearg]

Down 14% yesterday on two trades worth a total of twenty bucks. What is up with that?

[simla]

What's up is pretty clear: everyone's holding their breath. Waiting for news. Sitting on their hands.

One thing seems pretty likely though. The shares are either worth more than the current price, or less. The chances of them being worth exactly the current price are slim indeed.

[simla]

Annual report out. Sounding more positive than the March update managed, though the figures presumably match.

57 pages to get through, but the short version with the release included: https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/223078

"increased New Zealand retail sales by 23% " "13% annual growth for the 2011 year" "doubled sales in Asia" "early successes from internet sales ... but not significant revenue" The revenue was all from sales, not research etc.

Big problem was the collapse of sales with "a single key retail brand manufacturer". There has been interesting reading on the net about that product's company, if it's the product I think, which is all nothing to do with Blis though, apart from the impact. "Unable to sustain their promotional activity, the majority of retailers removed them from the shelves and within a few short months they had gone from national retail distribution to limited distribution."

Also today was a snippet on the enquiry from stuff.co.nz, but not much news in it. Stuff.co.nz story (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6956785/NZX-probes-nether-regions)

[simla]

Other snippets from the report:


p3: US second half sales 668k compared 8k first half. 251k loss BFF, on sales of 271k (8 months only)
p4: Initiatives on costs bore results. Net cash outflow 2.5m I think, due to lost sales first half presumably. But 569k accts due received shortly after balance date. 755k spent on BFF and product development. That leaves about -1.2m by my calculations, of which 400k must have been pref divs? Leaving -0.8m from operations despite sales ceasing for about 6 months (or more?) due to distributor change?? If so, not that bad??
p4 Murray & Co sent out their paperwork in April, more detail at the AGM.
p5: GRAS and China will have a "profound impact on the future of the Company". The company has made "solid achievements". The focus is building "immediate sales".
p6: Discussion of Stratum, and happy with how they are doing so far. Global probiotic market growing 7.6% pa, $25b last year, dietary supplements being $2.1b of that by 2015, vs $28b in food probiotics by then.
p7: GRAS approval took two years, China approval 3 years.
p8: China looking for import licences now after regulatory approval. European approval still progressing.
p9:Happy with web sales progress. Therebreath expected to move beyond Walgreens. Jarrow happy with sales response, rolling out further. Possible European gum coming. Korea still working on it. Japan has two major companies launching products, one this year.
p10: Products in Israel, Pakistan. Work on extra manufacturing plants. Q24 patents rolling out.
p11: Gum in NZ? New NZ product lines in about a year. Move into semi-finished product sales. Blis K12 ice cream now for sale via Gourmet brand. Still pursing full GRAS (ie not self-affirmed?) Looking at M18 GRAS. World's scientific community likes working with Blis.
p12: K12 ice cream being sold in NZ. Pipeline products still there. Discussion of BFF.
p13: The company "remains confident it is on the right path to commercialisation". "Our partners share our expectations for achieving commercial sales volume in the near future."
p20: Equity needs work. But intangilble assets do not appear to have been written down. Well controlled accounts receivable given the 569k received soon after balance date (p4)
p23: Mild disclaimers over how valuable some assets are for the future.
p41: Going concern basis on assumption next issue okay. The directors believe the going concern assumption is valid.
p52: Top 20 shareholders. Good to see some still increasing their holdings.


Well, if the company is toast, they sure forgot to tell the company! However, they obviously do still have to get through this next issue.

All up, that seems much more positive than the current market mood might suggest. Let's get through the next issue though. If the share price hadn't plunged, I'm not sure that many of us would have found that to be especially negative (apart from the need for cash and obvious sales problems last year), and there's plenty of positive in it too.

[simla]

Additional points:

BFF caused losses of $251k (p3). However, an impairment of $225k is shown on page 18 (see also page 38), and the P&L on p18 shows a difference in group and company deficits of 26k. Since 26k + 225k = 251k, it seems likely this means BFF lost 26k in 8 months of operations, and also wrote off 225k on the original purchase costs (although the books show that BLT wrote off the 225k, not BFF).

Considering that BFF was bringing out K12 ice cream which must have had setup costs, and also absorbing costs from re-establishing its markets, and also did not have full markets in operation, it seems likely that concerns over the purchase of Gourmet are not justified. Nevertheless, it clearly consumed cash this year.

Also, the balance sheet on p20 shows current liabilities of 3983k for preference shares. Obviously that will disappear off the balance sheet since the preference shares have converted to equity. Does anyone know how that happens? I presume it will appear as an equity injection.

[bermuda]

Annual report out. Sounding more positive than the March update managed, though the figures presumably match.

57 pages to get through, but the short version with the release included: https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/223078

"increased New Zealand retail sales by 23% " "13% annual growth for the 2011 year" "doubled sales in Asia" "early successes from internet sales ... but not significant revenue" The revenue was all from sales, not research etc.

Big problem was the collapse of sales with "a single key retail brand manufacturer". There has been interesting reading on the net about that product's company, if it's the product I think, which is all nothing to do with Blis though, apart from the impact. "Unable to sustain their promotional activity, the majority of retailers removed them from the shelves and within a few short months they had gone from national retail distribution to limited distribution."

Also today was a snippet on the enquiry from stuff.co.nz, but not much news in it. Stuff.co.nz story (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6956785/NZX-probes-nether-regions)

Simla,
That Stuff story leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Exploitation?....or just a matter of circumstance? Doesn't read well.

[winner69]

Simla,
That Stuff story leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Exploitation?....or just a matter of circumstance? Doesn't read well.

So EE did it .... and profited ..... but jeez he needed 'a wee bit of extra cash at the time' .... yeah right

Never mind guys EE played by the rules .... thas the way the game is played in this .... so get over it

But never forget .... EE and his mates are decent guys

[percy]

Simla,
That Stuff story leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Exploitation?....or just a matter of circumstance? Doesn't read well.

Not a good idea to pee in your drinking water.

[simla]

The company has called the umpire in to make a call, and that's how our society works. Let's just wait and see what they say. Regardless, though, there's no denying that that party has been very useful to the company to date.

[simla]

But I'm surprised nobody has commented on the results themselves.

Two years ago, we hoped for early runs on the board as K12 arrived in Costco. That particular path didn't go especially smoothly as far as we could tell, and we have spent the last two years trying to get a feel for where things were going.

But this report lays out a much more solid situation. There are several useful onsellers in the market now. Therabreath is in Walgreens and looking at others, and has done a pretty thorough job of gaining internet stories. Now Foods is clearly running with the thing. Jarrow sounds pretty happy. U!be in Japan are getting somewhere. Culturedcare are still widely available. Russia is keen. Australia is stable. NZ is doing well. Something's going down in Japan. Stratum seem to have been a success. China is still progressing. GRAS must be picking up interest. Sales seem to be back to healthy growth. Gourmet look like they will bring in some cash. And there's a ton of other onsellers. All up, a much more solid situation.

Existing shareholders will be a lot happier when the next issue is over on satisfactory terms. But that still remains the most likely outcome surely?

And once cash is in the bank, the company looks in a pretty comfortable position from that report. No? Comments anyone?

[winner69]

The company has called the umpire in to make a call, and that's how our society works. Let's just wait and see what they say. Regardless, though, there's no denying that that party has been very useful to the company to date.

Just as well the 'umpires' in this game don't have any red cards

[Oman]

Just as well the 'umpires' in this game don't have any red cards

I wonder who deserves a red card Winner69?

Most of what I read about BLT is positive. They are working in a poor economic climate with restricted funding. It would certainly be nice to be financially secure but BLT is dealing with the vagaries of a fickle market and there are few risk takers around to play white knight. The BLT products are one factor, but the others are; the buyer demand, and if there is buyer demand will people buy at the price BLT wants?

I also think of the ROI for a substantial investment. For most of us the ROI is rather negative and has been for some time, so who is going to provide the cash to keep BLT alive? The answer to that is partly in the risk-reward ratio. I agree with most of what you say Simla, but the cold fact is that BLT is right on the edge of a financial abyss. Sales are one thing but we don't know much about the cost of those sales. What exactly is the real profit per sale I wonder?

If they get a cash injection that will be great! They will survive and probably prosper, but I think the commercial situation is a tad desperate. BLT is at a tipping point. Right now it wouldn't take much to tip the business to disaster!

No one deserves a red card in my opinion. The marketing team are all working at making the BLT business a success, but it's going to be hard to achieve! Assuming margins are inflexible BLT has to increase sales to gain more cash flow, as they are trying to do of course. The question in my thinking is whether they have sufficient time! That's the last factor in the story ...time! It's taken so long to get to where they are now that there's not much cash left for running the business.

[simla]

Agree that the next issue must proceed. But they have a story to tell and my assumption is that that will be okay. I'll be happier when that's passed us though, certainly.

I don't see the abyss that you see, other than in the immediate future of the issue. As far as I can tell, the sales for last year occurred in just 4 months of the year. If so, then they're making progress. In the last 12 months they have gained Therabreath Multi, Jarrow, Now, GRAS, Stratum, something in Japan, China, Gourmet. Previously they were relying heavily on Bioguard and the previous distributor. That's almost a complete change of main income sources as I read it, and the last results suggest it's working for them. Also a big change in that increasing immediate sales have finally made it to the number one slot of objectives - good!

Yes, it remains a risk. But if the issue proceeds, I get the whiff of victory from that report. But, yep, it's a tricky world out there. Anything may yet happen. (ps. Love where you're going with your website.)

[patrick]

"That's what markets are for"
Dead wrong!1

[simla]

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, Oman, but p29 lists sales revenue for the company, not the group, (ie Blis not Gourmet I believe, and the headings wrong way round by the look of it) last year of 1188k, and cost of goods sold of 461k, a profit of 727k. The list of expenses, also on page 29 which is almost the total expenses in the P&L, effectively has overheads of 725k (employee, director,lease), non-capitalised R & D expenses of 555k, non-cash expenses of 402k (amort, depr). That gives you: overheads 725k + capitalised 555k = 1280k + non-cash 402k + cost of goods 461k = 2143k. (There were a few other small things.)

Or in another order: production profit (727k) - overheads (725k) = 2k surplus - 555k non-capitalised R&D - 402k non-cash = -955k before finance costs - 121k amort -400k divid - 225k impariment gourmet = -1701k (compared to -1733k on p18 because I skipped some small income and expenses, pretty close).

So, grouping the non-cash together: -402k non-cash (amort, depr) - 121k (pref amort) -225k impairment gourmet = -748k non-cash (although gourmet cost cash, but the write off was obviously a non-recurring prudent write off).

ie Loss of Blis operation (not gourmet) approx = 1701k = 2k production surplus beyond overheads - 400k dividends (not next year) - 555k non-capitalised R&D -748k non-cash items

Or, operating (2k production surplus - 555k non-capitalised R & D) = just -553k. Not actually bad considering their sales were massively impaired for most of the year. On top of which are 748k non-cash (capital depreciation accounting entries really, no?) and 400k dividend which is over now = -1701k. On top of which Gourmet lost 26k. (okay, that totals -1727k compared to declared loss of -1759k. I simplified a bit.)

Okay, that won't be exactly accepted accounting standards. It's just re-expressing things for the sake of argument. But I must say I sometimes wonder if Blis don't present their accounts in almost the worst possible light! You must admit it looks very different if you put the figures in a different order.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that that is a good way to look at it. I'm just explaining why I don't see things as being so bad as it sounds with the bald statement of a $1.76m loss.

Comments very welcome! That's just my maths and amateur accounting, do your own if you're interested! (And, yes, none of that addresses the cash situation, which needs sorting.)

[simla]

ps. A quick cross check on the -553k operating argument above: p21 states cash outflow from operating activities was -1493k (Blis, not group). Add back 400k dividend and the 569k accounts receivable soon after balance day, = -1493+400+569 = -524k, which is the same ballpark. Again, hardly accepted accounting, but a rough cross check of whether that was a vaguely plausible cash loss on operations perhaps? Shoot me down by all means! (They also spent 522k on capitalised expenses roughly, 225k to buy gourmet, and maybe lent 294k working capital to goumet(?), all page 21. Again, just my maths, do your own.).

So cash wise, you might take the view of approx 553k operating loss, 522 capitalised expenses, 400k dividend, 225k buy gourmet, 294 working capital gourmet, and 569 accts receivable they now have back. Total cash burn of those figures: -2564k. Page 21 says change in balance for year of 1519-565 = -954 - cash raised 1551 = 2505k, which is about the same given the simplifications in my post estimating 553k.

So, in the coming year, the only repeating items would be -553k operating and -522k capitalised = about $1m. Any increase of sales would reduce that obviously. The cost of goods sold above suggested a gross margin of 62% (461k vs 1188k), so we might reasonably hope next year's cash burn will be manageable then. The balance sheet p20 already lists cash + accts receivable - accts payable = 925k.

Those are just my calculations, do your own. I could be wrong. I'm not a chartered accountant! But they seem to suggest this company still has options, even before the issue.

[winner69]

Seems like it is really all honky dory then .... no real problems at all

Like your statement that they should present their accounts 'in better light' .... jeez saying EE et al activities were OK and wanting accounts to be presented in 'better light' is a bit desperate methinks

[simla]

Come, come, Winner69.

All I have said about the conversion is that I did not enjoy it myself, and the umpire is looking at it which is how things work in our society. I have said nothing else.

And I did not call for the accounts to be in a better light, I simply tried to work out how much cash they lost from trading, and what effect increased sales would have on that next year, and how much cash they had now, in order to get a feel for how much latitude is there.

[simla]

If they get a cash injection that will be great!

There is probably room for heart on that front on page 54 of the report just released, which lists the top 20 shareholders after conversion. 65% of the company is now in the hands of the top 20. For the company to not raise cash probably requires that 65% to sit on its hands. Common sense would suggest that that list should be made up of enthusiasts for the company, who may have access to some cash, not least because this list is almost certainly mostly people who put up money for the prefs, given the terms of the conversion.

The market seems to be asking what would happen if the company had problems raising cash now. But I wonder if there shouldn't be more focus on the interesting question of what will happen if they DO raise the money. It definitely seems the more likely outcome to me, from the make up of the shareholding now, and from the story they have to tell, and from the active moves to find investors. Even if they take $2m at one cent (hopefully definitely a worst case) that's still only 200m more shares on 481m, or 29% dilution. And, myself, I would certainly be hoping they would be getting less dilution than that with better terms. Well, even a 29% dilution should be compared with their future success, which I'm sure we all hope is seriously greater than 29% growth!

I think the gloom is overdone. I read a lot of promise in that report myself. Yes, Blis has been subject to setbacks often over the last few years, but I don't think that should be confused with the idea that setbacks will go on forever, which is quite illogical.

[Oman]

I'm not quite as optimistic, Simla. One of the top holders is the ACC. The only reason they bought is that for some reason they were underwriters to the preferential shares. Edinburgh spread the risk so that's 2 of the top 20 that were not rushing to stand in the market. I would not expect further investment from the ACC. I would imagine that they would reduce their holding if the price were to rally sufficiently.

Normal investment practice is to spread the risk so the big shareholders may not offer more cash because they need to keep a balanced portfolio. I would rather expect them to sell down when possible to reduce risk. Why would they they buy more BLT which only increases their risk at present. Business people tend to be cold blooded creatures. No enthusiasm ... they just invest and take a profit. They may buy if BLT finds the cash from somewhere else because the BLT risk would then be lower and the prospects would be encouraging. They might also 'buy on the rise' that would occur if a cash source is discovered.

I also note that the directors have mostly modest holdings. If the future is bright I wonder why we don't see a management buyout, or at least a gradual increase in their holding but they are not buying as far as I can see, certainly not in significant numbers. I'm not aware of any NZX rule that prevents them from accumulating shares.

[percy]

One of the first rules of investing is;"Don't add to a losing position."

[simla]

Your argument is quite cogent, Oman, and I don't claim to be right. We'll both find out.

I think we disagree on emphasis mainly. You feel they really need the cash, whereas my calculations above suggest they have some latitude if really needed. You feel they may not get cash, whereas I feel Blis will get at least come cash, doesn't need huge amounts if necessary, and still has some strong supporters, and has a story to tell investors. You worry Blis's future may not turn out any brighter than it's past, whereas I feel that Blis has paid dearly to get here but is starting to accumulate some valuable business partners that will pay off. I feel that was really the entire point of last year, the way the company responded to the revenue problem, and which response obviously cost a lot in last year's results. Six months ago we said it was all about revenue now, and I think that last report shows that they have made some strides on that front, despite the net loss reported.

Where does the share price fit in all this? I feel it creates gloom that may discourage people from running with Blis. That's my biggest concern. But on the other hand, everybody knows there's an enquiry and that may inspire people to support Blis too. Hard to say which effect it will have.

Everyone else is being REALLY quiet about the last report. Comments anyone?

[Oman]

You worry Blis's future may not turn out any brighter than it's past...

Not quite that Simla. I think that they have a very bright future if they get the financial backing. It's a question of whether they find enough finance to carry the business for long enough to produce a sizable profit ...and maintain the R&D for future cash flow. That's probably $2m they need. If they get that money on reasonable terms the share price should rally and it should all be positive feedback. In 5 years the business should be healthy.

If there's no cash then we have a fire sale and the patents will move to another business that does have cash. My guess is that competitors will have already tagged BLT as a prospective cheap buy and will be watching closely to see if they can get easy pickings at the fire sale. They won't be waiting to help that's for sure.

To me the annual report is irrelevant at present. The tipping point is Cash! If they get money I'll be more interested in the report and the expansion plans. Maybe others think the same which would explain why there are no detailed comments. They're probably expecting a wake! ;-)

[simla]

Shareholders are just as likely still in shock over what happened in the market recently. I've met a few people over the years who have done things like that, and I can't say as I ever felt any of them seemed to understand how their actions affected other people. The world is an odd place.

Anyway, this has all turned into yet another obstacle for Blis to deal with. They've dealt with plenty of obstacles successfully so far, so I'm hopeful. Despite other people's comments, I feel that it was logical to ask for an umpire's call in the circumstances, and to call in an outside agency to look for funding. Meanwhile I'm sure they're pressing on with the business too. The AGM presentation will be interesting as always.

[simla]

By the way, perhaps some of you wonder what my reaction is to the market events since I have said so little. I didn't enjoy it and I'm sad for all the people affected negatively.

So, why have I said so little about it here? Firstly there's no point. It won't change anything. Secondly I know that not everyone agrees. Thirdly I never come here to discuss other people, just the company's public information.

The lack of shareholder support in the market prior to the conversion meant that the price might lurch during the conversion. I posted a reminder that there were a lot of decent people involved here for what it was worth, as I hoped people would include that fact in their decisions, and that post gained me a fair amount of ridicule.

Also, I did not profit or lose personally from the conversion at those terms. I made sure I was neutral at a position I was comfortable with and that was all. I did not want to profit from this sort of market movement. Some will say I was stupid, but that's just how I choose to live my life. I accept that others see life differently and that's their right too.

I hope the umpires will make a call that is fair and useful between all the parties, because that's how our society is structured to deal with conflict between what different people want. The umpires have quite a few powers under NZ law despite comments to the contrary, although not a huge track record of using some of them. And anyone who feels affected obviously has the option of communicating with the FMA or NZX directly.

Whatever the result, though, it is just another set of market conditions for the company which they now have to deal with. I express views about this in private, but I am pragmatic about this company and my interest is how the future will now play out. Of course I'm aware of the possibility of pitfalls here, but when I work things through logically it still seems to me that probability lies on the side of success. We'll find out though.

[simla]

It's a bit of a worry that nobody wants to agree with me. Is this a case of the crowd being right, or the crowd being wrong! We'll see. Certainly it's a complex situation at present.

[simla]

Oman, you probably find me frustrating at times, as I'm not willing to post everything I see in my internet searches. But they influence my opinions. For example, what happened to Bioguard was nothing to do with Blis or its potential as I read it, but I'm not willing to post about it because I don't post about things that happen to people or companies. I don't think it's fair to post things that people have no ability to respond to, so I won't do it. It's all on the net of course, but there's a huge amount of stuff that influences my opinions that I haven't posted.

All I can say therefore is that the background information that I consider would probably better explain why I don't think last year's sales revenue was a useful predictor of what will follow, and why I think the new business partners may be valuable assets for the company. Likewise, influenced by a multitude of different small bits here and there, I'm not convinced that Blis shareholders are in a panic or trying to sell nor that the top 20 shareholders have lost heart nor that the company is especially short of room to manouevre. On the other hand, the company report gives plenty of clear facts on what is in train.

But those are just my impressions gained from a host of different factoids and posts I come across on the net. It doesn't make me right by any means. But perhaps it explains why my views don't always seem obvious sometimes.

So I'm not trying to be perverse or argumentative. Faced with the conflict of seeing things but not being willing to post some of it, I try to lay out my logic as clearly as possible. At present that involves going through the cash flows and looking at the business partners etc to see whether the current atmosphere is justified by the facts. As I've explained, I'm not that convinced that it is. The bad stuff mainly seems to me to be atmospheric with not a lot of facts to substantiate it. There is no actual evidence for example that the shareholders are not willing to put up cash now, whereas there is clear evidence that they did so only a few months ago.

Probably that doesn't help with the frustration, but maybe it explains a little. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just think it's really helpful to have opposing views argued out, that's all. The more opinions the better. I definitely value your posts.

[Oman]

Hi Simla,

I did have a short tongue-in-cheek post placed this morning but cancelled it as I belatedly realized that it could be misunderstood. I've no problem at all with your posts and opinions. In fact they are helpful, but my opinion differs a little, which is probably healthy. Group-think is the last thing we need.

I recall that BLT posted an announcement about the possibility of delisting BLT and the fact that the last fund raising was in fact disappointing and produced less funding than required, hence the need for more cash now. Shareholders were reluctant to fund the business at that time but Edinburgh played white knight. We later discovered that Edinburgh flicked some of the risk on to ACC. How the ACC became involved as an underwriter for a share issue is way beyond my comprehension!

As we all know two of the functions of the market are to set a value on share prices and to be a venue for raising finance. It's because the BLT share price is exhausted that fund raising by further issues is not really viable. They can't seriously issue more shares at the present share price, as I don't believe many people would buy them and the dilution would be unacceptable to current shareholders, so yes why not delist and save the NZX listing cost?

Personally I still have a bucket of BLT shares and would love the price to rally, but reality is that we need some actual marketing progress that returns serious ROI before that will happen. Plans and hopes are not enough. Hopefully Barry will come up with some good news in that regard.

Regarding the umpire and the mythical 'red card', I have no problem with what happened at the Preferential shares conversion. Edinburgh offered shares on market at a low price and people bought them. The only problem I would have is if there was collusion between seller and buyers. That would be a cause for NZX action and a penalty. I doubt, however, that there was collusion and the inquiry report will most likely show displeasure but no illegal trading. Probably there will be no impact on the current share price and trading will continue roughly as at present with sellers outnumbering buyers.

My opinion, and that's all it is, is that the BLT future depends heavily on finding $2m venture capital, which will carry a high premium cost, and maybe a rabbit-in-the-hat surprise that Barry could present at July's annual meeting.

[simla]

Thanks, Oman. We can but wait and see.

[THEONE]

Hi Simla, i nominate you to become a Director. I like your thinking, you are a great supporter of the company. I hold a few shares now, I am sure others on sharetrader may vote for you also. You never know.

Worst case scenario what is Blis worth in Liquidation vs Potential for upside?

I still think Blis will eventually do well, great products that are cheap to make. Probiotics are a billions dollar market surely a big company will add to their milk/yoghurt oneday.
But I have thought that for years......

[simla]

Ha! Well, that's very kind of you TheOne, I'm sure.

I'm very happy with the current Board...especially if we still have it by the end of the AGM, since recent events may have made the atmosphere interesting. Anyway, as it happens my thoughts mostly only reflect what I see the current Board doing, which is proceeding very logically and determinedly towards the end goal. If I didn't think they were doing that I wouldn't have so much hope. I have no doubt now that Blis K12 will still be for sale in 10 years.

I think the only question on the table now is whether we existing shareholders will be present there. Recent events rattled my cage on that one. The trouble with what happened is that it changed the relative rights between shareholders by what happened on the market. Any situation gets interesting once you move beyond the "all in this together" premise. However, as I have said, the umpire is looking at things, and presumably this is roughly what they are considering, being a broad overview of market trading rules by the Min Econ Dev (MED) (http://www.med.govt.nz/business/business-law/trading-securities-and-derivatives), if anyone is wondering what the rules are. I've tried to find things in the NZX rules that cover it but can't see much, if anyone knows where that might be.

However, I don't know if anything amiss happened, but I'm glad it is being checked to put our minds at rest, and then we will move on one way or another. One thing definitely came of it, and that is a low share price, which won't make life easy for current funding or confidence, the implications of which are Oman's big concern, and who can disagree with those concerns. All up, I wish things hadn't happened like that suddenly.

Thanks for your kind thought though. I don't think the Board is any problem at all, just the current funding. If we get past that satisfactorily, I'll probably become pretty optimistic again.

[simla]

By the way, those who aren't keen on the website should probably revisit from time to time. It quietly changes if you watch. The front page could probably still do with some simplification, but already it hangs together noticeably more than it did. http://blis.co.nz

And these pages are surely verging on exemplary?
http://blis.co.nz/probiotics/blis-k12-throat-guard-boost.html
http://blis.co.nz/research-studies.html
http://blis.co.nz/videos-blisk12-blism18,blissk12,blis-technologies.html
http://blis.co.nz/blisk12-and-periodontal-gum-disease
http://blis.co.nz/probiotic-answers/blis-k12-and-probiotics/blisk12-health-benefits-travel-guard.html


And this looks like a work in progress. It is called Travel Guard advert mk1 and seems to be dated late May.
http://blis.co.nz/media/ResearchPics/Travel_Guard_Advert_MK_1.JPG

[simla]

I've decided I could be a bit clearer about what part I think Biog probiotic may have played in the last 2 years' results. I don't think it's fair to recite other people's affairs on the net, but the following are matters of public record and should suffice. I abbreviate the name out of politeness too, so it doesn't add to the net's ceaseless supply of stories.

Here's a post (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5122-BLT-(Blis)&p=304075&viewfull=1#post304075) on this group describing Blis's general progress to May 2010, 2 years ago. Many will recall how hopeful we were then, because Biog had been in Costco for the summer to some extent, and Culturedcare had just come out, but next the second half revenue did not grow as we hoped. Puzzlement started, which has dogged us for two years now. But we knew that Biog was going nationwide later in 2010 which seemed likely to pay off. (18 months ago)

But here's a news story (http://www.californiainsurancelitigation.com/article/mckennon-schindler-llp-obtains-393-million-damage-award-for-clients-in-business-dispute-over-intelle/) in which $3.93 million is awarded against the manfacturer, which happened sometime before September last year, perhaps 9 months ago. And this (http://dockets.justia.com/search?query=imagenetix&court=casdce) shows the case was probably filed in April. Perhaps the company knew about it for at least a couple of months before that, or perhaps Feb 2011, 15 months ago. Well, Biog had hit Costco and Riteaid around October 2010 by the look of it, just 3 or 4 months earlier and was presumably using cash in promotional costs.

It seems reasonable that expenditure on marketing was conserved at that point, although that's just a guess. But we do know that the announcement with the last Blis report (https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/223078) said "Unable to sustain their promotional activity, the majority of retailers removed them from the shelves and within a few short months they had gone from national retail distribution to limited distribution." They didn't say who, but Biog has to be a prime contender since it was in nationwide distribution. Certainly the product had disappeared from Costco's website sometime last year, and I kept waiting for it to reappear, but it didn't.

So that left us hoping for great progress with nationwide sales in the US for the first time, starting about October 2010 (19 months ago). It took a while to roll out fully as I recall, but actually within 6 months tops, probably less, the manufacturer was presumably looking to its own cash. Our hopes were not going to happen, but we did not know it at the time. We were surprised that revenue did not increase much over that summer, but with this being the only nationwide product, this seems a possible explanation perhaps?


Then add to that the change in global distributor. We know that US sales in first half last year were a mere $8k (https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/216706). So it may be reasonable to assume that Blis raised the possibility of cancelling the contract before any revenue arose last year. Might we assume perhaps that the suggestion was not welcome! Well, we'll never know the facts there. But we also know that the new distributor was not able to commence until Dec 1 last year, and must have taken some time to get up to speed as well. All of which cost the company considerable revenue last year. I doubt many of us would have expected changing contracts to play out in exactly that way.

Add these two events together, and it's pretty easy to understand what happened to last year's income. And that's why I see it as sheer bad luck that is nothing to do with Blis or it's potential. (Happily Therbreath and Jarow are now nationwide and seem to be growing sales.) Then we also have to cope with events with the share price last month, resulting in the price dropping to about 1 cent. I view that as sheer bad luck for shareholders again, creating problems Oman has recently recited.

So, basically, we just had a year of sheer bad luck. After all this time of wondering if the strategy was good or bad, this year seemed to fall into the category of simply very bad luck. That's my conclusion anyway. It gives us a cash situation to deal with now, but if that goes okay then I can't see why things shouldn't continue satisfactorily. We'll see. But I cannot see how it could be reasonable to expect last year to repeat.

Just my view. As always. But perhaps that background info helps some get a feel for recent events. I would have referred to this somehow earlier, but it was only that one sentence with the last report that let me piece the whole thing together.

[Oman]

Interesting and informative research. Thanks Simla. I wonder if more will be revealed at the AGM.

[simla]

Thanks, Oman. It's how I look at it, and their share price (http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=IAGX+Interactive#symbol=iagx;range=2y) seems to show the lawsuit was important. Equally though, it is view of 2 years projected from just a few facts, so things may have been quite otherwise. We'll probably never know. I just thought the existence of the lawsuit might be helpful background knowledge regardless.

[simla]

There's that thundering silence again! After we've struggled to explain events for the last two years, I finally found a possible explanation that is both plausible and consistent with the facts as we've seen them. But only Oman comments (thanks Oman). The current situation is certainly an interesting one, and I genuinely, and as always, would like to see the situation through others eyes. Comments anyone?

[winner69]

Simla, the thundering silence comes about cause only you, Oman and Graeme spelt backwards are the only ones interested in BLT. I stil think two of you are the others alter ego with the other being an insider

Other 'watchers' are only that and don't really give a stuff about BLT. They check in here cause some seem to have an irrestiable urge to keep track of how you guys are doing. Maybe deep down we are worried about your wel being.

And prob Balance's mate at Harvard who is doing a study on shareholder behavior when things aren't going to plan checks in as well ........plenty of material for those academics on this and the PRC and NZO threads

[simla]

That's a useful observation, Winner69. And maybe you're right. But I don't see why that's anything to boast about.

Certainly it is obvious across all these forums that people love to descend when things are doing well, or occasionally to have a good prod when they're not. Otherwise things get ignored.

There is a cargo cult mentality about the NZ shareholder and that is why the NZX struggles in my opinion. If today's shareholders had run NZ 150 years ago, we would have no railways, no roads, no cities, no agricultural sector. Because everybody would be sitting back waiting for a sudden capital gain, and nobody would be putting in the hard graft to make things happen.

Yes, Blis is not going entirely to plan so far. So what? Judged from the point of view of huge capital gain based on no work except clever timing of owning stocks, yes that's not good. Judged from the point of view of putting in the hard graft to build a valuable company for NZ, the NZX - and indeed the world considering its product - then that is simply what it takes.

Everybody wants NZ to have lots of happy companies on the NZX, but shareholders just aren't interested in putting in the hard yards to create them. Blis is actually suffering from no set backs at all of any note that aren't pretty well entirely caused by lack of shareholder support. If we weren't worried about whether shareholders were now going to support a company with good prospects, then the company would be a great investment almost by definition. And if more shareholders had supported the company over the last couple of years, the recent events could never have got off the ground.

You may be right that nobody much cares because things aren't poised for immediate victory. Can't say that's relevant.

ps. You obviously realise the irrelevance of cheap shots like "Graeme spelt backwards", "alter ego" and "insider". I notice you like to attack Blis from time to time, but you presumably have a cheque book. You could instead help build NZ's sharemarket by supporting this company which is trying to add to the thin supply of strong NZX listings. If you are as good as you let on, you probably have a big cheque book. Maybe there are only a small core of keen shareholders, but we've put money into helping build the place. I'm proud of being one of them. You could be too. Put some of your money to work for the benefit of others. It's hard work though. You may even lose it. But you will have done something to contribute to your country. That can't be all bad.

[neopoleII]

""that aren't pretty well entirely caused by lack of shareholder support.""


excuse my language..... but that is the biggest crock i have read on this thread.
i think you better reevaluate your involvement in this company, and what it is to be a "shareholder"

because i can tell you many many shareholders lost a huge amount of money in this co and never really got any decent explanation from the board.
the direction the board took many years before you simla got onto this bandwagon is what sowed the seeds of distruction of this co. the board could of changed direction many years ago and turned this co into something spectacular..... but alas... the damage is done and it is irreversible.
who wants to invest in a company that is dangerously short on cash, totally disrespects its shareholders, needs a new injection of cash to survive, has half a billion 1 cent shares, cant even sell premier products in its homeland "m18" and then spends most of its precious reserves on icecream.

may i suggest you go to your bank and mortgage your future life and reinvigorate this company.
if your lucky..... the company might send you a life discount card for its variety of k12.

do not blame shareholders for the wealth destruction that has happened.
it was destroyed by the board..... who got a salary...... way before you came along.

having said that, your input to this forum is waaay better than the board ever gave us.
sad part is..... you did your positive work for free, the board gets paid.
you should ask the admin if they have the historical threads from the "first sharetrader"
you can then read all about what the board "didnt tell us" while they told us first profit is just around the corner.

drats..... i posted on this thread again!..... will i ever learn ........

[simla]

I know you've been a fantastic supporter of the company in the past, NeopoleII. I appreciate that. I should have said "lack of CURRENT shareholder support." Happily there is a core of current supporters but pretty obviously the vast majority of shareholders put nothing in last time round.

I'm always running into this argument that the current stuff can't work because the last stuff didn't. But although you've told me how angry you are about what happened, and who you blame, I've never heard a simple unemotional and impersonal account of how much money was used in those first few years and where it went. I'd be very grateful if you think you could give such a brief and objective account! Just a skeleton, I'm sure we'll manage to fill in the gaps about where you must have got angry. The basic plot line must surely be that they had a lot of overheads and the sales made little progress. Or was it a case of spending big hoping it would pay off and it didn't? (And yes, I'm sure the current board wish they hadn't bought the ice cream company just this year, given what a big cash loss it was this year. They obviously, like us, were not expecting to have major upheavals in their sales revenue.)

[simla]

Back to waiting then.

[simla]

I have decided to change my role after the next AGM in about 7 weeks.

I feel I have made a pretty fair contribution to keeping this group together since the preference issue three years ago. I have posted numerous links to information on the net, argued through the logic of many situations, posted digests of long company reports, and attempted to engender conversation in confusing times such as the present. And tried to keep the tone civil and positive, of course. All of which has been a considerable amount of work.

I have decided I have done enough however and the group will morph into whatever it does when I stop doing that.

In that time, the company has changed very considerably. The market development work has continued to make great strides year after year. Roadblocks have appeared in front of the company in a number of ways, but the company has found ways through all of those with the exception of Europe which it is currently working on.

But the revenue has certainly come and gone over time. Chiefly, as I explained recently, I see the last two years as being heavily reliant on one US product available nationwide which has apparently not produced a strong reliable income for us due to quite random circumstances. In addition, the global distributor was changed, with obvious effect on the revenue last year. Both of these seem to explain last year's revenue. More recently the share price has been put through the mill, just for those who feel there is not enough challenge in this share at present.

After the AGM, the company will most likely be in one of two positions. Most likely it will have raised the necessary cash and will have pretty good prospects in front of it in my opinion, due to having acquired useful and stable business partners now, combined with large markets still opening before it. Or it won't, and the company will be busy deciding what to do next. For that to happen however requires there to be no interest from new investors via Murray & Co, for the current large shareholders to decline to put up cash, and for the remainder of the shareholders to not put up cash also. For all three of those to happen seems to me to be somewhat unlikely, which is why I see success as the likely outcome. We'll see. The state of the world's economy is obviously relevant too.

I have enjoyed doing all this work, but I feel I have done enough now and the reward for my effort is dwindling. No doubt I will still make occasional posts, but I will no longer be a persistent researcher. Given the two possible outcomes after the AGM and the funding, the company's future should be quite different to the last three years either way and I feel this is an appropriate time for a change in the tone of the group too. Thank you for your kindness to me over the years. I have very much appreciated it.

[simla]

Still back to waiting though!

[Nigel]

Simla, your contributions have been the best source of information and discussion we've had. Your research and your musings will be missed! (well, maybe we'll get some musings from time to time, just a little less frequently by the sounds of it). Thanks for everything you've contributed to date - I, for one, have really appreciated it!

[Oman]

I would just add that Oman is not an 'insider' in case that was the meaning suggested above. I try to support the BLT business and I do offer K12 online as an affiliate marketer but I have no inside information about BLIS and would not expect any. I depend on public announcements just like most other shareholders.

As an aside you can search for BLIS products online and you will find the BLIS company site hits the top of Google for almost any BLIS product keyword you imagine so they may be making some Internet sales, but the K12 future is likely to be in the food ingredients market more than the cheap-Charlie tablets they sell at present.

Natures Plus have far more interesting K12 products but I even wonder if they are selling well as I've noticed some on discount pricing online ...I think it was on Vitacost I saw them offered cheaply.

[moocher]

The new K12 containing pineapple lump ice cream is delicious and thoroughly reccomended- I will be picking up more from "the Gourmet Ice Cream Company" factory shop asap. Just hope they can get it distributed further than the closest supermarket...

[simla]

Hey, tell us more! So the K12 ice cream is readily available in the factory shop and the nearest supermarket? Size, cost, flavour, attractiveness? Thanks for the info though.

[winner69]

I see a creamy yoghurt icecream won an award at the NZ Ice Cream Awards last night. Good one
http://www.nzicecream.org.nz/awards12.htm

[fungus pudding]

I see a creamy yoghurt icecream won an award at the NZ Ice Cream Awards last night. Good one
http://www.nzicecream.org.nz/awards12.htm


What brand is it?

[weasel]

What brand is it?
I was going to post that the Gourmet Ice Cream Company (crafted by connoisseurs not chemists) did not seem to win any awards at the national ice cream awards, so I am confused now.....

[simla]

They've won them in the past. But you can't keep handing out awards for the same products every year, as you know. They're not bringing out new products.

I sense a certain licking of lips going on here, waiting for things to get out of hand. Well, it can't be ruled out while they're looking for cash. But don't get your hopes too high. Remember that the auditors did not qualify their opinion just a few weeks ago, and did not write off intellectual property, and Page 41 says "the directors believe the going concern basis is valid". Both obviously had a close knowledge of the cash prospects by mid May and have felt comfortable stating that.

[weasel]

They've won them in the past. But you can't keep handing out awards for the same products every year, as you know. They're not bringing out new products.

I sense a certain licking of lips going on here, waiting for things to get out of hand. Well, it can't be ruled out while they're looking for cash. But don't get your hopes too high. Remember that the auditors did not qualify their opinion just a few weeks ago, and did not write off intellectual property, and Page 41 says "the directors believe the going concern basis is valid". Both obviously had a close knowledge of the cash prospects by mid May and have felt comfortable stating that.

Simla, has the company finally folded or is the web site just temporarily down?

[weasel]

Simla, has the company finally folded or is the web site just temporarily down?

It's back: must have been a temporary hiccup.

[fungus pudding]

I sense a certain licking of lips going on here, ...........


Well I doubt that it's for their very ordinary, ridiculously overpriced, ice cream.

[skid]

Well I doubt that it's for their very ordinary, ridiculously overpriced, ice cream.

With a profile name like that ,maybe you should start your own line of probiotics LOL

[simla]

Well I doubt that it's for their very ordinary, ridiculously overpriced, ice cream.
Not sure everyone agrees it's bad though. I just checked out 5 supermarkets. All had good stocks, and Island Bay had 42 pottles in stock. AND the stock was all new, so it's turning over well.

I wonder if people are doing the maths on BFF properly. Wellington can only have been a small portion of those sales last year, as my posts show that it was just getting in to the main supermarkets in February, and didn't really reach regular restocking in most supermarkets until at least March 31. And they are hoping to get into Auckland soon obviously. Plus other NZ cities presumably. There is surely the potential for sales this year to increase quite a bit on last years BFF sales of 271k (p3 last report).

[emearg]

Well I doubt that it's for their very ordinary, ridiculously overpriced, ice cream.

Yes yes Fungus we get that you don't like their ice cream! We hadn't forgotten!!

[emearg]

Simla, the thundering silence comes about cause only you, Oman and Graeme spelt backwards are the only ones interested in BLT. I stil think two of you are the others alter ego with the other being an insider

There is no need to be offensive.

[emearg]

I have decided to change my role after the next AGM in about 7 weeks.

I feel I have made a pretty fair contribution to keeping this group together since the preference issue three years ago. I have posted numerous links to information on the net, argued through the logic of many situations, posted digests of long company reports, and attempted to engender conversation in confusing times such as the present. And tried to keep the tone civil and positive, of course. All of which has been a considerable amount of work.

I have decided I have done enough however and the group will morph into whatever it does when I stop doing that.

In that time, the company has changed very considerably. The market development work has continued to make great strides year after year. Roadblocks have appeared in front of the company in a number of ways, but the company has found ways through all of those with the exception of Europe which it is currently working on.

But the revenue has certainly come and gone over time. Chiefly, as I explained recently, I see the last two years as being heavily reliant on one US product available nationwide which has apparently not produced a strong reliable income for us due to quite random circumstances. In addition, the global distributor was changed, with obvious effect on the revenue last year. Both of these seem to explain last year's revenue. More recently the share price has been put through the mill, just for those who feel there is not enough challenge in this share at present.

After the AGM, the company will most likely be in one of two positions. Most likely it will have raised the necessary cash and will have pretty good prospects in front of it in my opinion, due to having acquired useful and stable business partners now, combined with large markets still opening before it. Or it won't, and the company will be busy deciding what to do next. For that to happen however requires there to be no interest from new investors via Murray & Co, for the current large shareholders to decline to put up cash, and for the remainder of the shareholders to not put up cash also. For all three of those to happen seems to me to be somewhat unlikely, which is why I see success as the likely outcome. We'll see. The state of the world's economy is obviously relevant too.

I have enjoyed doing all this work, but I feel I have done enough now and the reward for my effort is dwindling. No doubt I will still make occasional posts, but I will no longer be a persistent researcher. Given the two possible outcomes after the AGM and the funding, the company's future should be quite different to the last three years either way and I feel this is an appropriate time for a change in the tone of the group too. Thank you for your kindness to me over the years. I have very much appreciated it.

I think you should keep researching and making your posts. I'm sure we would all like you to stumble on to some websites that advertise K12 in food in a country other than NZ! I appreciate your thoughts even though I don't always agree with them. Cheers

[emearg]

The new K12 containing pineapple lump ice cream is delicious and thoroughly reccomended- I will be picking up more from "the Gourmet Ice Cream Company" factory shop asap. Just hope they can get it distributed further than the closest supermarket...

Popped into Thorndon New World today for the first time in at least five years. I'm working near by at the moment. What a fantastic selection of craft brewery beers! Absolutely huge! I really didn't want to go back to work! :)

More on topic, I note they are selling the Probiotic K12 icecream. One litre tubs. Four different flavours including the one Moocher told us about. Bold, simple wording on the label. Most appealing. It is a buck or two more than their standard 500ml range. If only ALL my health needs could be met through icecream :)

[emearg]

It looks like Stratum are taking the Blis range seriously. It is all over their websites and there are several product brochures available. More than it first appears as they have another version of their website I stumbled upon. Plus they have partnered up recently with another outfit. They are marketing each others products.

In all the years that Blis were with Frutatrom there was NOTHING on their website.

This boosts my hopes somewhat.

All may be lost, but the fat lady (with excellent oral health) has yet to sing...

[emearg]

Back to waiting then.

Since you obviously feel ignored don't take it too personally. For me I am waiting on the AGM. Not much to say (other than my posts tonight) until then. It will be interesting. Hopefully in a good way in terms of funds raised and increased sales.

[simla]

Thanks for all that, Emearg. Three years of research is quite a bit, and I'm happy moving on from that. I'll no doubt still make the odd post. If I'm right in my gut feeling, the company will be moving to quite a new phase shortly.

That probiotic ice cream in the supermarkets is MAJOR news. The first GRAS application for Blis anywhere in the world.

Naturally I went and got some. It is in very presentable packs, flat with large well-designed labelling on the top, attractive. Four flavours: Vanilla, Chocolate, Pineapple Lump, Peanut & Chocolate. It's full-fat ice cream, not low-fat, which is interesting (ie. "gourmet"). Tastes pretty good. It appears to be the same quality ice cream as the other Gourmet ice cream. (Most brands are full of various additives but not Gourmet.)

My feeling is that it will walk out the door once people get used to it being available. Something about it just looked a bit of a winner - which is what I thought when I saw the original punnets too, which are indeed selling well.

By the way, did you see my post (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5122-BLT-(Blis)&p=375051&viewfull=1#post375051) about the last two years I feel it is one of the more useful things to fall out of my research efforts, and has given me much more perspective on what's happened in that time.

I'm very happy indeed to see the probiotic ice cream in the shops. It will be fascinating watching how well it sells.

[simla]

You're right, NZ advertising would be great. I'm sure Blis hope to have the cash for that. Meanwhile Blis is for sale via many manufacturers overseas, many of whom are definitely trying to market their products.

But several points might also be made: K12 is an oral probiotic and not competing with almost any other probiotic, almost all of which are for the gut; the probiotic market is huge, so Blis don't need to eat the competition to carve out a profit; all advertising adds to the market they say; the research on Blis appears to be very strong compared to most other probiotics; I'm not sure I agree that website is instantly more persuasive than Blis's.

And of course theirs isn't in the ice cream section!

[Chippie]

Personally I think that spending any money on marketing in NZ would be a poor choice to spend money. I am pretty sure BLT previously stated that their strategy is to limit spending on the NZ market and focus on the larger markets.

Simla, thanks for the all the research and information you provide. I for one really appreciate it!

[Chippie]

Popped into Thorndon New World today for the first time in at least five years. I note they are selling the Probiotic K12 icecream. One litre tubs. Four different flavours including the one Moocher told us about. Bold, simple wording on the label. Most appealing. It is a buck or two more than their standard 500ml range. If only ALL my health needs could be met through icecream :)

I picked up some of the Ice cream today. The kids liked the Vanilla with chunks of chocolate and nuts. My wife and I preferred the pineapple lump ice cream. It was pretty good!

[emearg]

I'm seeing a lot of probiotic advertising on TV at the moment.

However, none of it is for the Blis products. It's all for an Australian outfit called "Inner health". My interest levels were pied after I visited a pharmacy the other day (an independent one in St Heliers, Auckland), and saw large Inner Health merchandising, but nothing from Blis.

Out of curiosity, I visited the Inner Health website, and was very impressed by how clear and inviting their website was. (no e-store facility, since they obviously have a number of retailers and e-tailers on the case)

http://www.innerhealthplus.co.nz
vs
http://blis.co.nz/

Sadly Simla, it looks like Blis are going to have their lunch eaten by their opponents.

This is excellent news! The more people educated about probiotics the better! And Simla is quite right, almost all other probiotics are for the gut.

[emearg]

Yeah, I agree. Bliss' inability to get the marketing right has cost this company and its shareholders dearly! Scientists and marketeers don't make for a happy marriage I think. One deals with objective facts and empirical evidence and the other lives and breathes spin! That is very true. Thankfully Barry changed the game plan from trying to do the marketing himself to engaging others. Pharma what you call em do it in NZ for the Blis K12 range. That costs them money not Blis. Frutatrom did it globally. Now Stratum. Blis doesn't have much money to spend on advertising. They have made that clear. Probably a good thing based on their website! That said, there Facebook presence is pretty good.

I can feel an email coming on to Blis asking why they aren't telling everybody on Facebook about their new icecream range. That is very cheap advertising!

[emearg]

I picked up some of the Ice cream today. The kids liked the Vanilla with chunks of chocolate and nuts. My wife and I preferred the pineapple lump ice cream. It was pretty good!

Good to hear! Where did you get yours?

[neopoleII]

""Thankfully Barry changed the game plan from trying to do the marketing himself""
Barry spent virtually all the cash bliss had on his advertising campaign before he changed his game plan...... this is what has caused the damage and the situation we are in today.

[simla]

At last I understand why we talk at cross purposes sometimes. The current CEO is not the one that did the earlier work, but has pursued a significantly different plan starting 2006/2007 and with quite a bit of success.

So the early money went on the TV ads? I gather these ran starting about 10 years ago, but rather oddly I don't remember seeing them if so, although I was rather busy at the time. I can understand that costing quite a bit. That presumably was an attempt to do what some posters here have called for from time to time: to create a market through local advertising.

However, that wasn't Barry's doing. He was appointed CEO in August 2006, http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5122-BLT-(Blis)&p=173445&viewfull=1#post173445, and soon after introduced the new game plan. His basic idea was that Blis couldn't afford to create a huge market from it's own cash, and he proposed pursuing the ingredients path along with appointing a global distributor to find overseas partners who would afford to market their own products containing the Blis ingredients. He spent 2007/2008 creating internal efficiencies and gathering the basic building blocks together. Then in 2009 the rights issue was to fund pursuing it in earnest.

Despite quite a few setbacks getting in the way, that strategy has been achieved to a quite considerable degree, culminating perhaps in the K12 ice cream we see now.

[simla]

Here's an amateur photo of the K12 ice cream for those who want a look. I think you need to be logged in to see it. It's a bit bent because I've already opened it! "Helps boost your natural immune system". "Probiotic support for oral and throat health."

4014

[neopoleII]

However, that wasn't Barry's doing.
yes, it seem your right regarding Barry, my memory is getting foggy. it been 12 odd years now give or take a year or so.... and with the relentless slide in sp and relentless rise in share volume I've just basically given up on this co. for me to get my original investment back the company would need to be worth $500,000,000.... dont think that is going to happen in my life time.
would be nice to see a couple of punters make a few bucks from their 1 cent investment if it hits 2 or 3 cents......... as long as someone is willing to buy a few mill.
i guess every investor needs a kick in the pants to learn a lesson...... my lesson is to learn about the ceo and board first..... then the company they are running and its product.
this is how i avoided the finance company fiascoes.
as a foot note
i respect the products of BLT today as much as i did when i first invested heavily.
its those who control this or any company that i now feel that have to prove themselves before i invest my hard earned cash....... it seems the NZX is awash with crap ceo's and boards.

[simla]

Does anyone have an opinion on the exact figures of the BFF loss? On p38 of the last report, the BFF loss is set at 251k. p38 also says a 225k write down was made on the purchase of BFF. p18 places the 225k write down in the company, not BFF, which would make it in addition to the 251k? Yet p18 also says that the company and the group made almost the same loss, despite the write down seemingly being outside BFF. p3 says they incorporated a 251k loss from BFF following acquisition. So is it 251k plus 225k, or 251k including 225k?

BFF looks like it will do good cash flow anyway, because the cost of goods sold on p29 shows they make a fair margin, and my observations in the supermarket suggest it is selling pretty well, and they're still looking to expand sales region, and bring in the K12 ice cream. But is it ready to start profiting straight away from any new cash flow, or is there a bit of a catch up first? Or doesn't it matter anyway, since the first year's result probably included rejig costs that won't recur this year anyway?

[Nigel]

Hi guys, do we know when the capital raising is taking place, and whether the public/shareholders will have the option to be involved?

[simla]

No, but it would be good to know! We must get the agenda for the AGM soon (27 July) and I'm hoping we will get some hint then. One possibility is that they will want to hold some sort of vote on the issue at the AGM, in which case we will get details in advance. The listing rules allow them to raise a certain amount of cash without a shareholder vote, but only at the average recent price, I think, and other restrictions, and they may prefer instead to come to the shareholders with a proposal? And thanks for your kind comments the other day, Nigel.

[emearg]

Prof Tagg peddling his germs on RadioLive:
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/We-share-our-bodies-with-over-10000-microbes/tabid/506/articleID/28681/Default.aspx

[emearg]

Prof Tagg peddling his germs on RadioLive:
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/We-share-our-bodies-with-over-10000-microbes/tabid/506/articleID/28681/Default.aspx

PT reckons the K12 icecream is launching nationally in July...

[simla]

Thanks, Emearg. Nine packets of K12 ice cream have sold in Thorndon in about six days (plus some more I bought). That seems like excellent uptake of a new concept. For myself, I don't think I'll be eating a full-fat ice cream regularly for my K12, but others may well - the "premium" ice cream section is about 40% in size of the ice cream section I notice. The stuff certainly tastes great. And they have a low-fat version too we were told a while back, and also yoghurt. Early days, but it shows the public seem to be in tune with probiotic food now. Incidentally, I also noted Oragenics probiotics are now for sale in the toothpaste section of the supermarket there (as lozenges I think, I didn't check.)

[simla]

The K12 ice cream has been restocked at Thorndon, which is a good sign after a week. And from stock levels at other times my family have been there this week, it seems possible it has been restocked a couple of other times this week too. Hard to be sure of course, but clearly the thing is having no difficulty attracting customers anyway.

[patrick]

At least two Pharmicies in Christchurch VERY keen on Throat Guard.
Tower Junction and Merivale.
"You will not need anything else" !

[simla]

Mmm. Yes, the company said in the past that it wanted low fat but this is what they've launched now anyway. I find it a conflict as you say, between a luxury and a daily health benefit, which is no doubt why the company is looking to low fat. We'll see what they do next. Mind you, the premium ice cream section is just about as big as the Tip Top area in the supermarkets. And Blis have K12 yoghurt available too we know. Maybe we'll see that in a bit too.

But the company could be doing pretty well out of this in the meantime. My daughter just bought two more packets because the ice cream is so delicious, never mind the K12! There is no denying that the ice cream is truly delicious. The pineapple and chocolate one is a real hoot.

I saw the K12 ice cream in another city supermarket too, so it's rolling out. And I went back to Island Bay who had 42 ordinary punnets last week, and they've sold 27 in less than a week - about 4 a day. It's fascinating wondering what this is doing for cash flow. Expanding usually consumes working capital, but the ice cream turns over quickly so it is probably generating cash rather than consuming it. So if the K12 launch hasn't consumed even more cash (and that was probably in the last result not this one?) we might like the result. Will the AGM tell us more?

If Tagg is right that it will be nationwide this coming month, you'll all be able to see what you think yourselves. I've been surprised to discover that Gourmet ice cream has not often been absent from this house since it arrived here in Wellington. It's good.

[emearg]

Yoghurt, I could understand. But ice cream? Do people seeking to improve their overall health consume ice cream?

I do :) Most nights I have some icecream. Is a nice treat and I can control the quantity. Unfortunately I have almost zero self control with lollies, chippies and chocolate so I tend to stick with icecream.

And in case you are wondering...although I'm not exactly a spring chicken anymore I don't weight anymore than I did when I was eighteen, and I am fitter than most eighteen year olds. All good things in moderation I reckon :)

And thanks to K12 I haven't had a day off work due to sickness in many years. And having started taking M18 earlier this year I no longer get plaque build up on the inside of my bottom teeth. The difference is absolutely startling actually! Try M18 for a couple of months and tell me I'm wrong!!

If Blis eventually release an icecream or yoghurt product with both K12 and M18 in it I will seriously consider swapping from lozenges to icecream or yoghurt.

[simla]

TV1 just ran a Throat Guard ad! 10 seconds, just before the weather, "More than just a lozenge", "probiotic", "guard and soothe your throat". Nice and professional. It had "Pharmabroker" in the last shot.

Good stuff.

[neopoleII]

i saw that too...... good stuff!
im still waiting for m18 in the local market........ THAT is something i really want to buy

[simla]

The notes for the next meeting are out. https://nzx.com/files/attachments/159379.pdf

I shan't have any difficulty voting against delisting. It really is too frustrating that the company itself is looking up and meanwhile the shareholders are having to wade through stuff like this.

[brucea]

Well Emearg I have a cone of yoghurt ice cream every night and I am still svelte and thin although probably classified as a autumn chicken. I still don't know whether the Blis ice cream is available in Auckland. My concern is that the Blis products might become unavailable if the company goes under - now that would be a bummer after taking it all these years.

[emearg]

Delisting to save money makes sense. One question is how are they going to pay people applying for a minority buy out? If they can afford to do, then they should buy out the tiny holders now to reduce costs.

Considering the delisting fee, the one off audit fee, buying out minority holders, the hit in year one will be considerable! Exactly what Blis can't afford I would have thought!

[Chippie]

If they think saving $80p/a to reduce audit and reporting requirements is material then it appears they are not confident of increasing their revenue. I for one prefer that someone keeps them honest.

“Less administrative time dealing with reporting and audit requirements twice yearly ”

To be honest my immediate thought is I wish I did not own so many shares.

[THEONE]

I would like to learn more about the delisting reasons, I can understand trying to save money. But at at time when there already is such a negative perception of the company. Surely 80k is nothing in the scheme of things. Especailly when compared with the status of a being a listed company. If Blis was delisted would we learn more of what is happening?

I cant help but wondering the timing, feels like someone is acting in there own interests trying to pick up shares cheaply somehow. I will vote No unless In am given a very good reason to vote yes.

I would love to learn more about the capital raising and China.

[neopoleII]

delisting is the first step to be rid of all the minor shareholders..... ie all of us... at a very very low cost to the one major shareholder.
the one major shareholder has probably instigated this move and pressured the board.
with no disclosure needs with the delisting, the major shareholder is free to accumulate to the point of reaching mandatory take over percentage without minor shareholders knowing or a rise in share price as the shareholder massively increases his stake.
this is very bad news for all shareholders except the major holder.
there is nothing we can do about it, as the major share holder probably has the numbers to do it.

only pushing the share price up dramatically to say 10cents or more could stop this.
not likely.
in my opinion.... this plan was hatched several years ago with the origin of the pref shares and the divis paid to them.
within one year from this notice all shareholders will be paid out 1 cent per share and the company goes into private hands and THEN ...... you will see blis products advertised properly.
there is still some hope left...... but cant see it myself.

good luck to fellow shareholders.

[emearg]

this is very bad news for all shareholders except the major holder.
there is nothing we can do about it, as the major share holder probably has the numbers to do it.

Page 11:
t is noted that Edinburgh Equity Nominee Limited and its Associates ("Edinburgh") are not 'Members of the Public' for the purposes of voting on Resolution 5. They will not be entitled to vote accordingly.

Page 3:
In order for it to be passed, an ordinary resolution requires the affirmative vote of a simple majority of more than 50% of the votes cast by those entitled to vote and who vote in person or by proxy.


So the majority shareholder doesn't get to vote. That leaves the little people a voice. It is up to us to exercise it...

[emearg]

I would like to learn more about the delisting reasons, I can understand trying to save money. But at at time when there already is such a negative perception of the company. Surely 80k is nothing in the scheme of things. Especailly when compared with the status of a being a listed company. If Blis was delisted would we learn more of what is happening?

I cant help but wondering the timing, feels like someone is acting in there own interests trying to pick up shares cheaply somehow. I will vote No unless In am given a very good reason to vote yes.

I would love to learn more about the capital raising and China.

And much of that 80k is opportunity cost rather than hard cold cash i.e. Barry and co are spending their time doing this stuff when they could be doing something else. If they delist would the bill decrease? Would they reduce their head count? Even by a quarter? I doubt it very much. That head will just do something else. That would be useful but may not affect the bottom line.

[simla]

I don't see how any of us can be expected to judge if that amount of money matters when we haven't been told the state of capital raising, nor been given an update on sales since the previous sales figures were effectively from just four months. And I agree that we're in deep water if that small amount of money is make or break for the company, and that's not really how I read the last report (which NONE of you commented on. Time to do so?) I just feel like someone knows what's really going on here but it's not me. I'll vote against delisting regardless as that argument did not carry any weight that I could detect. Edinburgh may not be voting, but the voting turnout has been so odd that the thing may hinge on whether the second largest shareholder is going to vote in favour, and also on whether the board feel they aren't allowed to vote.

"The non-interested members of the Board recommend that shareholders vote in favour of this resolution." (p11). It would have been awfully nice if they had explained why instead of just rehearsing the for and against arguments and then asserting that that was their judgement.

For those feeling weighed down by yet another impenetrable communication from Blis, be at least cheered that the Blis ad was on the news again tonight.

[neopoleII]

thanks emearg,
i will vote my large holding against delisting

[simla]

There are one or two background questions to ask here.

Firstly, we have to ask ourselves how real this all is. It's a silly question to have to ask, but Blis has for many years issued two sorts of communications. Those in the annual reports are detailed and never grim. Those that get issued otherwise seem almost invariably to be pretty downbeat in tone. God knows why, but a different writer seems a possible explanation. We have been pretty depressed by this sort of announcement before (remember the one where half year sales just stopped dead a couple of years ago with virtually no explanation or discussion?) and yet things have just carried on afterwards as if nothing happened. The other hallmark of the two types of statements are the level of detail. The downbeat statements usually are not big on detail. This one endlessly discussed negative detail, but didn't mention the current prospects for an issue or current sales revenues, which is surely the central thrust of the question.

Secondly, then, we have to ask ourselves whether other information fits with this. Ice cream is rolling out well and ads are on TV. I think we can take it the company is still pressing ahead with Europe and China and R&D etc. How does all that square with a need for this small level of cash? Especially if Emearg is right that this may even be negative cash flow in year one?

Thirdly, as has already been asked, what are we to make of shareholders panicking so often at present? I have no answer to that, but I do have difficulty reconciling this major move for a small amount of money with the last report that had the company engaging in major work on every front. It's pretty obvious that every poster here tonight is worried this is the end, and yet did a single sentence in there actually say that?

Fourthly, we have to ask ourselves whether to just trust the Board regardless. There is no doubt that the company's management has steered the company through a very large number of obstacles over the last few years, pretty well always with success. I recently posted why I believed the cash did not flow in the last two years, and it wasn't anything Blis could have anticipated. Yes, it is possible that other decisions might have produced better outcomes, but we have no evidence of that at all. The Gourmet decision last year chewed through cash we could do with now, but they almost certainly did not anticipate the huge impact on sales of changing distributor, and who would have? In the end it looks like that will generate good cash soon. So maybe we just trust them to do something reasonable whichever way the vote goes.

So, I don't know what to make of that. But I reach out to previous events with this company to help guide what we might make of this. Yet previous disappointments boil down to only this: sales did not take off over the last two years, although they have held their own and steadily grown on an apples to apples basis; there was another issue last year; support for the share price is always very disappointing, but mainly because nobody every buys or sells as they just pointed out, there hasn't been much trading at all; regulatory hurdles for the company have been incessantly expensive and slow, but overcome. Maybe we just panic easily. Or not!

[simla]

We might remember that the last report said on page 40:

"The Directors believe the going concern assumption is valid and have reached this conclusion having regard to the circumstances which they consider likely to affect the Company and Group during the period of one year from the date of these financials are approved, and to circumstances which they believe will occur after that date which could affect the validity of the going concern assumption. The cashflow forecasts prepared by the Directors support the carrying value of the Property, Plant and Equipment, Goodwill and Intangible assets."

That report was issued only a few weeks ago, and the latest missive did not suggest any retraction that I saw. All the last missive said was "The Company has been listed on the NZSX since 2001, and the Board believes that it is appropriate at this time to re-assess the value of continuing as a listed company". (p4)

[Chippie]

It could be worth while sending Barry a few emails. He is pretty good at responding to them. I think we have a reasonable voice here as it looks like I am not the only one with a heap of shares.

I will send him one today raising my concerns.

[percy]

I would think you have nothing to worry about if the company delists and moves to the unlisted market.I have shares in PAZ which is traded on unlisted market and I have also owned Rangatira which is on unlisted market.Rangatira has a market cap of $36.9,PAZ $7.2mil while Skyline Enterprises is $213mil

[THEONE]

After further consideration I think I will actually vote infavour of the delisting. It sounds terrible not being on the NZX, but there must be good reasons for it. The management has a significant shareholding and they know more what is happening. Even though sales have been poor in the last few years. I think allot has been acomplished. Hopefully it would make it easier to communicate with the shareholders being delisted. We are in the same position as the board so if they do well so should us shareholders.
I cant really see any major issues with being delisted. A large shareholder mopping up shares cheaply would be good for us shareholders I think.

[neopoleII]

""A large shareholder mopping up shares cheaply would be good for us shareholders I think.""
it will depend on how many shares they want to mop up without having to disclose under delisting rules. does anyone know when the compulsory takeover comes into effect percentage wise on delisted shares?
this would give us an indication of the difference between what they have and what is needed to complete a buyout for the majority share holder.

the reason i am weary is because i just got a cheque from the new plymouth council because they achieved compulsory take over on tasman farms limited which i have been a holder of for 12 years. it was a nice sly take over....... to be honest.... im happy with that.
but blt is still a company that has huge potential...... but also huge risk.
i would rather see the company go bust on the nzx and all holders take a hit, than have it stealthily taken over by one or 2 newish holders who then make it their own and succeed.
i guess the pessimist is coming out in me...... maybe even jealous over "johnny come lately" pumps in a relatively small amount of cash and walks off with a potential goldmine.
blt was once a co worth 10 to 15 million, now that lots of hard work has been done, at the expense of long term and original shareholders it would be very sad to see it taken by a newcomer for peanuts.
having said that....... i supported this co with a sum that....... relative to my income..... would make eyes water...... made mine water anyway........ i just have nothing left to invest in this company under the situation..... whats that saying about catching a falling knife?
and management.... current and before....... have never been shareholder friendly.
which is why i stopped investing in this co.
but....... still hold a vested interest, and dont want to give it away or let a covert takeover happen.

ps.... im sure those that "earn an income" from blt will still be doing so under private ownership.....

too many folks lost too much money in this co to let it slip away in this fashion.
better to sell it.... than do this.

ok....... time for a drink.

[simla]

A large shareholder mopping up shares cheaply would be good for us shareholders I think.
I'm not sure that I agree with you there. All that achieves is them getting a lot of shares cheaply, which doesn't seem to do the rest of us much good. I'm prepared to trust that the Board will do their best, but that doesn't mean I think they never make wrong moves. I think delisting is an error of judgement myself, more in the short term interests of the company than long term interests of the shareholders. I don't see how benefiting a company is much use if it doesn't benefit the shareholders, so I will vote against.

I'm also with NeopoleII in wanting the company to do things the straight and open way. It's how it got where it is now, by daring to do things the classical and correct way, and I don't want it to abandon that aspect now.

[winner69]

I'm also with NeopoleII in wanting the company to do things the straight and open way. It's how it got where it is now, by daring to do things the classical and correct way, and I don't want it to abandon that aspect now.

Jeez - lost nearly $30m by doing it the 'classical and correct way' and you want them to continue down that path

[simla]

Yep. You are quite aware that the current management haven't lost anything like $30m. They have spent about $5m over about 3.5 years and have set up an international business on the back of that while introducing another product to the marketplace and developing the technology for yoghurt and ice cream, as well as paying for an awful lot of intellectual property, and acquiring an ice cream company that looks likely to generate good cash flow from here on in. Keep doing that? Yep.

[skid]

I noticed last night an ad on tv for bliss products-Is this a new strategy?

[airedale]

I have noticed those ads for the last couple of days. Is it co-incidental that they are rolling out the ads at the same time that they are considering de-listing.? I don't hold any shares but I buy the Travelguard when I am travelling.

[emearg]

Yep. You are quite aware that the current management haven't lost anything like $30m. They have spent about $5m over about 3.5 years and have set up an international business on the back of that while introducing another product to the marketplace and developing the technology for yoghurt and ice cream, as well as paying for an awful lot of intellectual property, and acquiring an ice cream company that looks likely to generate good cash flow from here on in. Keep doing that? Yep.
Yeah this is a fair observation. No pointing in us dwelling too much on the mistakes of others. The management should learn from them though. I back the current management and the strategy. Been waiting years for GRAS and access to large markets. That has come about in the last year or two. They just need more cash to survive another year or two I reckon...

[emearg]

I noticed last night an ad on tv for bliss products-Is this a new strategy?

I presume that either Pharmabroker have decided to invest more in the brand, or that Blis have pressured them or a combination. I wonder who is paying and how? Cash from Blis? Reduced share of the sale for Blis? All funded from Pharmabroker? Either way it should grow the overall pie, but as NZ is such a tiny market it won't make a huge difference. Perhaps enough to pay the difference between being on the NZSX versus Unlisted?

[simla]

Cash flow may be the link between all these things that are confusing us. Maybe the large shareholders have said they might put cash in, but like the rest of us they are getting a bit fatigued at the ongoing jam tomorrow, and are pushing for more short term cash flow. Maybe that started last year with the disappointing sales in the 2011 result.

Gourmet was bought, partly for cash flow we were told, but in the event needed quite a bit of cash in the startup, but looks like it might generate cash soon or maybe already. The change in distributor was obviously to increase sales, but again absorbed a lot of cash in the meantime. Is it producing more cash flow now? The ice cream is being rolled out nationwide, generating cash hopefully, presumably at some cost initially. The K12 ice cream looks to me like it will produce cash, but that must have been a punt at first. The TV ads should produce cash flow. Stratum are presumably going around pushing as many buttons as they can with current outlets. The delisting proposal was entirely couched in terms of cash flow, as it obviously has no other advantage at all.

But meanwhile the company is no doubt proceeding with future investment also, which can chew up quite a bit of cash.

The issue was announced in March, and Murray & Co called in before that, and yet we have no details months later. The delisting papers suggested early August was a key date. All of which perhaps suggests a pause before a decision. Why?

My own calculations suggest that the growth in ice cream sales plus a K12 sales increase of 20%, both quite plausible events, might be enough to let the company achieve a slight positive cash flow if they are careful, but don't ask me to prove that because I can't, not least because I have no idea of current sales, nor what the ads and ice cream rollout are costing, nor if they are engaged in other major projects. If the company decided it could get by with only a few hundred thousand extra as a margin of safety, but the prospectus cost etc meant they needed twice that, they might be waiting to get a better feel of their needs? After all, the last report said their cash flow forecasts were okay given various future possibilities - might that include an ability to hunker down and get by?

So maybe what's going on here is that the company has two or perhaps three paths forward, and they are waiting for more market data, current sales and expected orders perhaps, before committing to one path or the other? We can't tell if there is a difficulty finding cash, or merely a choice being made between two or more available options. But the strange delay might suggest the latter? Or not, of course. In short, maybe they haven't told us about the next issue because they haven't decided yet.

[emearg]

iChoice Reach is another new product with K12 and M18 in it. I'm not quite sure why they have bothered as it is swallowed with water. Good for sales but bad for the K12 and M18 brands.
http://www.lyf.com/ichoice-reach/

iChoice Block is better as it least it gets dissolved in the water and might be slight efficacious.
http://www.lyf.com/ichoice-block/

[simla]

That might be more than it appears, Emearg. The second one says, "A delicious pre-meal beverage". Beverage? Is this GRAS? Is this the beverage technology that they told us about last year? Ichoice Block was around at least last November, but I can't find out if it had Blis in it at the time. Well spotted.

[emearg]

I think not Simla. Both products have K12 and M18 in them. M18 doesn't have GRAS.

I also found product sheets for both with copyright of 2011:
http://www.lyf.com/files/2012/06/ichoice_fact_sheets_reach.pdf & http://www.lyf.com/files/2012/06/ichoice_fact_sheets_block.pdf (http://www.lyf.com/files/2012/06/ichoice_fact_sheets_reach.pdf)

[STRAT]

I would think you have nothing to worry about if the company delists and moves to the unlisted market.I have shares in PAZ which is traded on unlisted market and I have also owned Rangatira which is on unlisted market.Rangatira has a market cap of $36.9,PAZ $7.2mil while Skyline Enterprises is $213milHi Percy. Can you post a link for the unlisted market?

Thanks in advance.

[RRR]

How long can posters speak just plain crap - unless it is their job to do so!

[percy]

Hi Percy. Can you post a link for the unlisted market?

Thanks in advance.

www.unlisted.co.nz

[simla]

I'm attracted to Blis because of the very large contribution its products can make to the world - consider the huge suffering from lack of affordable dental care around the world, and the rise of antibiotic resistance, both enormous problems - as well as the big contribution Blis might make to the NZ economy and therefore the lives of our children and grandchildren. Those are matters of enormous importance to me, and it can't be said about very many listed companies. Naturally I'm hoping to make some money too.

[Chippie]

I have just sent my email to Peter Fennessy and Barry Richardson on the NZX delisting.

After reading all the material this evening I am convinced this is not a good option. If we cannot afford to fund $80k for some Governance and regular information then we may as well shut up shop now. I suspect just selling the IP for the company is probably worth more than the current $5m market capitalisation.

I have over 1 million shares in BLT and I for one will be demanding that the “reasonable” company buy back of my shares will not be the current price it will be closer to the average price in 2011. There is no doubt that Edinburugh did a good job of dumping the share price prior to the Preference share conversion.

Bevan Wallace (Unlisted Director) and Anthony Offen (Edinburugh Equity director) can go jump if they expect me to vote for them to be re-elected. I would prefer any of the supporters on this forum to be elected ahead of these guys.
That’s all for today. Tomorrow I will optimistically look for increased revenue and remaining on the NZX :)

[blissfool]

I tend to agree with Chippee, these guys have historically been terrible communictors being delisted will only make this worse. I also share the same sentiments with Chippee about Edinburugh and can't help wondering if there is already a far bigger play going on in the background, that will allow someone to come in and shaft all the long term loyal share holders and pick the company up for a bargin price.

The company has been thru some tough times but if you look at the revenue numbers the underlying trend is improvement, I think its on its way up.

Can some one explain to me the implications of the minority buy out if bliss is delisted.

[simla]

An old 2001 Law Commision report www.lawcom.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/2001/07/Publication_81_195_R74.pdf

"All North American business corporation statutes confer on minority shareholders who have unsuccessfully opposed specified types of fundamental change to a company’s structure or operations an entitlement to have their shares purchased by the company at an appraised price. The historical justification for appraisal rights seems to have been as a trade-off for abandoning an earlier requirement that unanimity was needed for such changes" "Each side is bound by the decision of the arbitrator."

Section 110 etc of the Companies Act confers this obligation on NZ companies as I understand it. The Law Commission report doesn't exactly state that the process is hugely successful, but I don't know how much the law has changed since that was written. That's hardly surprising as it is difficult to imagine a fair price for Blis - it would depend who was doing the talking!

Also note that that the meeting notice mentions that the company can repurchase by arranging a third party to purchase the shares instead. It also says this is an entitlement for shareholders, but not an obligation. I presume the company is obliged to notify us of this right, but I couldn't find that. It sure is a depressing notice to receive though.

I can't see myself exercising the exit rights though, as that assumes I'll get an even worse price later! It also assumes the company is more likely to fail than succeed. It also assumes the Board cannot act in all shareholders interests. And it assumes legal protection of shareholders is not worth anything. And that the company is not going to make any cash flow any time soon. And that the umpire, who very oddly has neither delined to act nor agreed to act, will have no input to the situation. And that I would feel better selling out at this price than hanging in to the end no matter what. All of which is quite a lot of assumptions. Plus the company has said it will send out updates anyway, and list on Unlisted or elsewhere. Just my views though, each to his own. I can understand others just wanting out. It sure isn't my idea of the ideal situation. I certainly voted against delisting and I am angry that the company even raised it as it clearly changes the rights of shareholders.

I imagine we are all pretty angry about this as we are being asked to vote on pretty big matters without being given any update on whether the company needs capital or not nor how the search is going. In particular, we are told delisting will save money but were given no information on whether that money matters or whether, as the notice says, they just felt it was time to review the matter. Combine that with the events in the conversion and I find it difficult to feel I'm being treated as any sort of equal party in this. However, despite the anger, it does not follow that things will not work out. For that we can only wait and see though.

[Chippie]

I recommend sending your feedback through to the company. I got a response from Barry, and get the feeling that my email was worthwhile.

Part of his response included the following "It is important to note that the Board is seeking the approval of shareholders to consider whether it is appropriate for the Company to delist from the NZX. There are a number of factors which need to be taken into consideration, not the least of these being the ability of the company to maintain trading in shares. Any decision to delist the Company needs careful consideration of these wide ranging issues before making a final decision."

[simla]

Meanwhile the company continues about it's business. This is cute and shows the company is up to something.
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/261143_106885549355004_1937442647_n.jpg

[emearg]

Yeah that looks good. Now all they need are products with it in it...

I was in the nuttery that is the New World near Oriental Bay in Welllington yesterday and noted they have all four flavours of the 1 litre K12 icecream. It will sell well there I'm sure. It's price competitive with the other designer 1 litre ice creams.

[brucea]

Hi guys, does anyone know if (or when) the Blis ice cream will become available in Auckland and from what outlets... the risk of a being a JAFFA (what me?) ..it is a bigger market base up here....

[emearg]

Hi guys, does anyone know if (or when) the Blis ice cream will become available in Auckland and from what outlets... the risk of a being a JAFFA (what me?) ..it is a bigger market base up here....

Nope. Email Blis. Tell them to update both their sodding websites too! The Gourmet Icecream site doesn't even mention it! I noted in Thorndon New World a banner over the icecream today showing it off. And their website doesn't mention it? That is poor!

Has anybody seen the new icecream anywhere other than Dunedin & Wellington?

[simla]

Do you mean yoghurt or ice cream, Emearg? The "Bliss" yoghurt is not theirs. I haven't seen a K12 yoghurt myself.

Brucea, the ice cream was taken up by the city stores in Wellington first, so maybe it will be in New World Victoria Park or Queen St first if/when it gets to Auckland?

[emearg]

Do you mean yoghurt or ice cream, Emearg? The "Bliss" yoghurt is not theirs. I haven't seen a K12 yoghurt myself.

Brucea, the ice cream was taken up by the city stores in Wellington first, so maybe it will be in New World Victoria Park or Queen St first if/when it gets to Auckland?

Yeah I meant ice cream. I saw that Bliss yoghurt too. Cheeky buggers!

[simla]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/business/7248860/Milk-protein-product-to-fight-bad-breath-in-China

Someone else going into China with a breath product. It's a big market and they say competition increases the market size.

[fungus pudding]

Has anybody seen the new icecream anywhere other than Dunedin & Wellington?


I wasn't a fan of the old ice cream; it was just rubbish, but after reading the comments here it's obviously a different recipe than the old company made. Blis must have changed it, or perhaps the original company improved it in the year or so prior to sale. Whatever the reason, I'm keen to give it another go. So my question is, where can it be bought in Dunedin? None of the supermarkets I've checked stock it.

[STRAT]

www.unlisted.co.nz (http://www.unlisted.co.nz)Thanks Percy.

[simla]

I wasn't a fan of the old ice cream; it was just rubbish, but after reading the comments here it's obviously a different recipe than the old company made. Blis must have changed it, or perhaps the original company improved it in the year or so prior to sale. Whatever the reason, I'm keen to give it another go. So my question is, where can it be bought in Dunedin? None of the supermarkets I've checked stock it.
The website says Gourmet Ice Cream Co. Ltd, 10 Birch Street, Dunedin Phone 64 3 474 0773 Presumably they have it, or they can tell you where on the phone. In Wellington it's only in New World. Let us know if you find it.

[Nigel]

Okay someone explain this one to me...
Today, I saw 2 trades made - the first trade went through at .011 (75000 shares) and then another at 0.011 (25000 shares). The closing price is now saying .01, even though the total shares traded for the day remains at 100,000 and VWAP is 0.011. So why is the closing price ay 0.01? Has someone made a cross-trade of 1 share (or similar) to keep the closing price down? (eg so that when a calculation is made for a rights issue or share purchase plan, the price is lower?)
Thoughts?

[THEONE]

This may be a new product, Its hard to keep track
http://joyx-gp.com/syouhin/supplement/blis-k12.html

[winner69]

Okay someone explain this one to me...
Today, I saw 2 trades made - the first trade went through at .011 (75000 shares) and then another at 0.011 (25000 shares). The closing price is now saying .01, even though the total shares traded for the day remains at 100,000 and VWAP is 0.011. So why is the closing price ay 0.01? Has someone made a cross-trade of 1 share (or similar) to keep the closing price down? (eg so that when a calculation is made for a rights issue or share purchase plan, the price is lower?)
Thoughts?

I think you find last trade of day was 25000 at .1 (shows as 2 sales)

No funny business

[emearg]

This may be a new product, Its hard to keep track
http://joyx-gp.com/syouhin/supplement/blis-k12.html

I reckon it is new. And from Japan which is good as there was talk of several significant products being launched there this year. This may or may not be one of them?

[fungus pudding]

The website says Gourmet Ice Cream Co. Ltd, 10 Birch Street, Dunedin Phone 64 3 474 0773 Presumably they have it, or they can tell you where on the phone. In Wellington it's only in New World. Let us know if you find it.

Thanks. I note they are running one of those trademe voucher specials. Half price, or 2 litres for $8.99. Even at that, it's damned expensive ice-cream. (Would anyone really pay $17.99 a litre?) So they're either super optimists, or they've improved the product. i'll try it in the next day or so.
p.s. That's from their Birch St. outlet.

[emearg]

Thanks. I note they are running one of those trademe voucher specials. Half price, or 2 litres for $8.99. Even at that, it's damned expensive ice-cream. (Would anyone really pay $17.99 a litre?) So they're either super optimists, or they've improved the product. i'll try it in the next day or so.
p.s. That's from their Birch St. outlet.

You might want to reread the text:
$8.99 for 2 x 1L BLIS K12 Ice Creams - A Brand New Probiotic Ice-Cream from The Gourmet Ice Cream Co. (value $17.98)The $17.98 is for a total of 2 litres

[fungus pudding]

You might want to reread the text:
$8.99 for 2 x 1L BLIS K12 Ice Creams - A Brand New Probiotic Ice-Cream from The Gourmet Ice Cream Co. (value $17.98)The $17.98 is for a total of 2 litres

Precisely. As I said, that's damned expensive ice-cream.there are plenty of good brands of ice-cream at around $6 for 2 litres. I did read the text, and the links. I'm struggling to see where the 'world first' bit comes into it At least they claim it's brand new, so it's obviously not the original rubbish sold by The Gourmet ice cream co.

[emearg]

Yes $9 a litre is expensive but there are plenty of others that are more expensive.


Would anyone really pay $17.99 a litre? It was this text I was referring to when I said you should re-read the text. I'm not sure why you are asking the question when the icecream is half that price for a litre?

[emearg]

Based on the sales to date on Treatme (http://www.treatme.co.nz/Deal/Otago/otg-gourmet-ice-cream-jul12cf) we can count on BFF having sales of at least $701.22 for this half year. I wonder how much of the pie TreatMe gets?

But to be slightly serious I am pleased to see them on the internet in this manner. Great advertising, even though most people won't buy the product they will have seen the offer. I wrote to Blis months ago suggesting they do this for their lozenges only to be told it wasn't on the cards at that point. I reckon they still should for their lozenges. It is cost effective advertising. And it creates some sales.

[simla]

it's damned expensive ice-cream... i'll try it in the next day or so.
The test will be what you think of it afterwards. I thought it nice the first time, but did not expect to buy it myself. But somehow it seems to find its way into the freezer. I bought some more only this week.


I wrote to Blis months ago suggesting they do this for their lozenges only to be told it wasn't on the cards at that point.
I imagine that is about the deal they have that created the TV ads. People won't invest in market development if they are being undercut from elsewhere at the same time.

And yes, the marketing of this stuff is very good. Excellent product. Promotional material. Excellent Treatme page. K12 TV ads coinciding. Very impressive. Facebook page coming on well. It's hard to imagine the effect on revenue, but it can't be bad. If they make it to Auckland, and still sell elsewhere, and have K12 ice cream, I hope they don't have a production constraint.

[simla]

Is this the new look for the Blis website? Its from the photo wall on facebook and says, work in progress. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=200777616632463&set=a.106965989346960.4166.106885549355004&type=3&theater

[emearg]

Is this the new look for the Blis website? Its from the photo wall on facebook and says, work in progress. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=200777616632463&set=a.106965989346960.4166.106885549355004&type=3&theater

I've seen that before. I think I posted a link a month or two ago didn't I? When we (not you Simla) were complaining about Blis's crappy website.

[fungus pudding]

Yes $9 a litre is expensive but there are plenty of others that are more expensive.

It was this text I was referring to when I said you should re-read the text. I'm not sure why you are asking the question when the icecream is half that price for a litre?

My apologies. :confused: I realise the price is for 2 litres, but inadvertently typed 17.99 instead of 8.99. Point is, that's still expensive.

[fungus pudding]

Have now picked up and tried two flavours, pineapple and chocolate with nuts. On way home i called into supermarket to compare prices.
Signature brand was cheapest at $5.50 for 2 litres. I bought a tub. (normally $5.90) So at 2.75 a litre it's under a third the price of Blis.
Price is hugely important with ice-cream sales apparently. I asked one of the women who I know has worked there for years and asked which was their biggest selling ice-cream brand. 'Whichever one is on special' she said. Now a word about signature ice cream. I think signature is one of the budget brands, and I have no idea who makes their ice-cream. I imagine it's someone like Tip Top with a tweaked recipe and packed under the signature label. That's usually the way with these budget things. Anyway, it's very good. Get your mind off the brand name and try it.
Now Blis. It doesn't seem any diiferent from the original Gourmet stuff. I didn't like it at all. Flavours were good, pineapple particularly. But the product was icy - not at all creamy like traditional NZ ice-cream. I though it very reminiscent of some of the Asian stuff. The signature stuff left it for dead in my opinion. Some of you claim to like the Blis ice-cream, but I do wonder if there's some wishful thinking creeping in. Will it be a market success? No - in my opinion, unless the probiotic factor has an influence, but other probiotic ice-creams have never taken off as far as I can tell. In fact Blis seems to claim this stuff is unique so perhaps the other probiotic brands have folded. It's dissapointing for me having much interest in Dunedin commerce and industry. Id love to see it take off - but it won't.

[simla]

But the product was icy - not at all creamy like traditional NZ ice-cream.
Thanks for letting us know, Fungus Pudding. I wonder if that is all there is to it? You happen to have got it out of the super-freezer each time? Yes, it is better when it is a bit warmer, but that doesn't take long. Our freezer at home is obviously warmer than industrial freezers. Either way, I promise you it is not wishful thinking on my part. I honestly did not expect to buy more than the first lot, but it just keeps getting into our freezer somehow. The whole family love it.

The price difference is in what you buy. Different ingredients. Tub ice cream is about 6% fat, whereas traditional ice cream is 25% fat - that is, one is really cream and one isn't very much cream. As I understand it, the tub ice creams typically make it up with corn syrup, gums etc. There are eggs in real ice creams like Blis, but not in the tub ice cream. There's quite a bit more sugar in tub ice cream, and a whole lot less protein (which is the stuff that makes you feel full) and interestingly the tub ice cream is less calories per 100g, but people probably eat a lot more of it per sitting. It's definitely a matter of taste though, of course, but the real ice cream is also a higher quality product really. The Blis ice cream is a high quality product even for the premium ice creams if you look at the labels.

However, "whatever's cheapest" is somewhat misleading. That would be true in each category perhaps, but not necessarily between categories. If you compare the shelf space for tub ice creams to that of "premium" ice creams, it's surprising how the tub ice creams are losing ground. The premium would be at least 40% by area in Thorndon I think, for example. I've looked in supermarkets in less well off suburbs, and surprisingly they don't sell that much ice cream at all, rather than that they have a lot more tub ice cream. I guess they are competing with Macdonalds, KFC, and other takeaways there for "yummy food" - which are cheaper still - rather than the more expensive ice creams.

In any case, Blis has also cast it's lot into "probiotic ice cream", which no other ice cream can match. From what I see at the supermarket, that's getting quite a bit of attention. We'll only find out how significant that is when we hear revenues though. Thanks for letting us know your vote though.

[simla]

Anyone who hasn't voted yet should remember to use fast post. Snail mail around the country can be very slow these days. It would be a pity to waste the vote.

[emearg]

Id love to see it take off - but it won't.

Yet another one of your opinions stated like it is a fact. zzzZZZZzzzzZZZzz


Signature brand was cheapest at $5.50 for 2 litres. I bought a tub. (normally $5.90) So at 2.75 a litre it's under a third the price of Blis.
Price is hugely important with ice-cream sales apparently

Does everyone buy the cheapest? If you don't have much money then sure, but for others who can afford a few more choices?

If price is the only consideration why do people buy wine other than a $7 Hardys?

If price is the only consideration why do people pay $4 for a coffee. Why not stick with the 10cent instant or better yet, the free coffee at work?

If price is the only consideration why do people pay $6 for 600grams of pumpkin soup? Why not buy a tin of soup for less than half the price?

Yes $9 a litre is expensive for many/most but there are plenty of people who will splash out once in a while and treat themselves. I don't think we need to get too hung up about the price at this stage. My observations are it is selling nicely at New World in Thorndon and Chaffeurs. Both supermarkets serve a large number of people that are reasonably well off I should think. No I don't think it will be a big seller in poor suburbs.

My thoughts are Blis bought GIC to develop the product, to launch their product, and to develop sales to the point where others get interested and GIC and it is bought by another company. That would be my game plan if I was Barry. That way Blis get the benefit of gaining specialist knowledge they can use in other countries, and continue to get cash flow from supplying K12. Dunno if that will happen of course but just a thought...

[emearg]

Anyone who hasn't voted yet should remember to use fast post. Snail mail around the country can be very slow these days. It would be a pity to waste the vote.

Postal voting is not permitted. Hand delivery or fax.

[weasel]

Is this the new look for the Blis website? Its from the photo wall on facebook and says, work in progress. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=200777616632463&set=a.106965989346960.4166.106885549355004&type=3&theater

May 17 **2011**. A work in progress apparently.

[fungus pudding]

Yet another one of your opinions stated like it is a fact. zzzZZZZzzzzZZZzz



Does everyone buy the cheapest? If you don't have much money then sure, but for others who can afford a few more choices?

If price is the only consideration why do people buy wine other than a $7 Hardys?

If price is the only consideration why do people pay $4 for a coffee. Why not stick with the 10cent instant or better yet, the free coffee at work?

If price is the only consideration why do people pay $6 for 600grams of pumpkin soup? Why not buy a tin of soup for less than half the price?

Yes $9 a litre is expensive for many/most but there are plenty of people who will splash out once in a while and treat themselves. I don't think we need to get too hung up about the price at this stage. My observations are it is selling nicely at New World in Thorndon and Chaffeurs. Both supermarkets serve a large number of people that are reasonably well off I should think. No I don't think it will be a big seller in poor suburbs.

My thoughts are Blis bought GIC to develop the product, to launch their product, and to develop sales to the point where others get interested and GIC and it is bought by another company. That would be my game plan if I was Barry. That way Blis get the benefit of gaining specialist knowledge they can use in other countries, and continue to get cash flow from supplying K12. Dunno if that will happen of course but just a thought...

Of course price is not the only factor, but it's very important in ice-cream from what I know. A more important point in pricing can be value - e.g. if a wine is a lot cheaper, and still quite pleasant, then it will sell. But here's what I did last night - 4 friends, 2 male, 2 female, all around 45 to 55 years of age. I gave them each a good dollop of the pineapple. Nobody thought much of it. I then said it was a new product and was retailing at more than twice the price of tip-top ( I picked that as a brand they would all know). General consensus was that that price was ridiculous. I then said I was only kidding and it was dirt-cheap at half tip top price, or $3 for 2 litres. They all said they'd rather pay the extra and buy the tip-top. Sort of proves the point about price being only one factor and perceived value another. Try this with your own friends, without trying to lead them in any way. It would be interesting to see if you get the same or different response. On your second point - why are Blis trying to develop this to sell to other companies when other probiotic ice-creams haven't taken off over the years? They've been around for quite a while. I suspect it might be that the health message, and ice-cream, are strange bed-fellows; a difficult one to sell. Can they afford to be travelling down a previously tried road? I don't think so.

P.S. General opinion was that the flavour was good, but too icy. More like a gelato or sorbet product. Not ice-cream 'as we know it'. Exactly what I thought when I first tried it. Obne woman got it right. She said 'it's just like that crap they sell at the Fortune theatre'. (A local theatre for stage productions that has sold Gourmet ice cream in small pottles for years.)

[simla]

Interesting experiment, Fungus Pudding! I figured out what you mean by "icy". You obviously didn't make real ice cream as a kid, because real ice cream IS a bit crunchy. But you're probably right that most people have never tried real ice cream and therefore would be a bit surprised to find ice cream can have texture. Sales revenue will be the test. However, "ice cream as we know it" is probably not "ice cream as we used to now it". Corn syrup was introduced after WWII I think because of shortages, and palm oil is on some people's lists these days too, of course. Nevertheless, if Blis bring out a low fat version, they will no doubt have to perform similar production ideas. However, I definitely stand by the observation that the "expensive" ice cream has about the same floor space as the tub ice cream in supermarkets.

[simla]

Postal voting is not permitted. Hand delivery or fax.
"For the appointment of a proxy to be valid, the form must be lodged at BLIS Technologies Limited [or faxed] [by] Wednesday, 25 July 2012... Postal voting is not permitted."

I take that to mean you can post the proxy form but not post the voting form. Ideas anyone?

[simla]

Meanwhile, some will have noticed Gourmet has a new facebook page. It had one before, this seems to be new. Looks good. https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Gourmet-Ice-Cream-Company/362262910493894

And it has a list of where the ice cream is sold. https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-gourmet-ice-cream-company/stockists/384148994971952

There are more stockists in Wellington than on that list, so I presume the same is elsewhere. Translating that list into towns:

Wellington (500k), Palmerston North (82k), Napier (60k), Levin (20k)
Nelson (60k) , Blenheim (30k), Picton (4k), Motueka (7k), Takaka (1k)
Christchurch (360k), Timaru (27k)
Dunedin (120k), Invercargill (50k), Alexandra (5k), Queenstown (23k), Mosgiel (10k), Oamaru (13k), Wanaka (5k), Gore (10k)

The smaller centres probably service another 200k-300k since many rural areas have surprisingly dense population around them.

Auckland (1400k): "coming soon".

So not yet Auckland ("coming soon"), Tauranga (104k), Hamilton (130k), Taupo (32k), Whangarei (75k), Gisborne (35k), New Plymouth (70k).

Pretty good coverage. 1.4m-1.7m already, with another 1.4m about to get it in Auckland. Only 500k in other main cities not on the list yet.

Naturally this doesn't mean 1.4m know about it, but it does seem to mean they could see it if they went to the local New World or whatever. The K12 ice cream is very visible in the ice cream section. I hope they have the production capacity for nationwide sales!

ps. Did you all enjoy getting a tiki tour of town sizes in NZ?

[simla]

And I've tried the roulade now, since it was listed as being at the Kelburn Four Square. About $15 for 21cm, so not the cheapest things. Very high production quality, very intense flavour, and tasted great. It says 7 servings of 30mm, so it's designed to be served with something at a dinner party, I'd say. It's probably got a fair market there, but the ice cream would seem the bigger market.

[simla]

when other probiotic ice-creams haven't taken off over the years?

I'm quite unaware of any such probiotic ice cream? Do you just mean frozen yoghurt? Yoghurt is not having an easy time in Europe so far as they cannot prove it has any beneficial effect, or that was where it was last time I looked. Also, probiotics have become a much more common consumer product now, with ads popping up all over the place now.

[Oman]

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Advanced-Vegetarian-Lozenges/product-reviews/B002AHJFG6/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I just ran across the above URL on Amazon. First thing I noticed was that 2 BLIS products are on 50% discount, then I read the not so good comments from customers. If people read this they are likely to remember the bad press more than the positive one. The Amazon chewing gum price looks as if it's holding up but the LEF product is getting poor comments. I wonder if it's old stock and near B.B.Date ?

[fungus pudding]

I'm quite unaware of any such probiotic ice cream? Do you just mean frozen yoghurt? Yoghurt is not having an easy time in Europe so far as they cannot prove it has any beneficial effect, or that was where it was last time I looked. Also, probiotics have become a much more common consumer product now, with ads popping up all over the place now.

There's a few available I think. I googled around a while ago and found three from memory.

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Probiotic-ice-cream-shows-oral-health-potential-Study

Mentions a USA one and an Indian one that I was awre of. there's more if you search.

[simla]

Yes, I saw that article a few months ago. May not have disappeared without trace though! Here's a probiotic ice cream for sale in India http://www.amulicecream.in/about_products_range_sugarfree.html and the company's facebook page carries 170,000 likes (it sells many ice cream products). Here's a frozen probiotic yoghurt in Canada. http://www.lebelfoods.com/probiotic-frozen-yogurt/originale-augustin/4-flavours-of-frozen-yogurt-available-in-a-165l-format/vanilla.html

[simla]

Nobody here is ever trying to talk anyone into investing in Blis. We discuss things here because we already own Blis shares ourselves on the whole.

And I don't know what the company could tell you, but there are plenty of articles on the net about bacteria not dying when they freeze, such as this from the US Dept of Agriculture http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FactSheets/Focus_On_Freezing/index.asp#3 You may be thinking of salmonella which mostly dies if frozen wet, and then the rest should die when you cook chicken properly. We freeze food to stop more things growing on it, but we always cook it afterwards too.

[fungus pudding]

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Advanced-Vegetarian-Lozenges/product-reviews/B002AHJFG6/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I just ran across the above URL on Amazon. First thing I noticed was that 2 BLIS products are on 50% discount, then I read the not so good comments from customers. If people read this they are likely to remember the bad press more than the positive one. The Amazon chewing gum price looks as if it's holding up but the LEF product is getting poor comments. I wonder if it's old stock and near B.B.Date ?

I just read that. My own experience of Blis k12 was similar to the first bad comment. My throat was sore beyond belief. Severe, not just like a cold or flu throat. I posted my comments here at the time. Until that I had some shares, that I had bought dead cheap, but bailed out of them after that experience; although I continue to follow the fascinating comments on this site. The only other blis product I have tried is the ice-cream. As I have expressed, i can't imagine in my wildest dreams that it will make any impact at all in the market. I don't like to be negative, especially as Blis is a local industry that I would love to see succeed, but I don't think they're anywhere near success.

[simla]

Have now picked up and tried two flavours, pineapple and chocolate with nuts.
But hang on. Those ice creams contain K12.

[fungus pudding]

But hang on. Those ice creams contain K12.


True, but it didn't rip my throat to bits like the tablets. :cool:

[simla]

Then joy shall be yours! A local Dunedin company can do well after all! And further, you fed it to your guests without doubting it too. Glad you had no trouble.

[simla]

There is a lot the company can and should be telling me as a consumer
You may have a point and you could email the company. They do have several websites with quite a bit of info, but I don't personally recall seeing anything about the ice cream temperature thing. They certainly spend a lot on research and the last AGM presentation said they have a lot of information on the efficacy of their products. It would be pretty hard to talk other companies into taking up K12 into ice cream if they couldn't show them the science however.

[Nigel]

But that doesn't answer my question. There is a lot the company can and should be telling me as a consumer who is buying their product based solely on the benefits that the company claims I will get from buying their product. First and foremost among those is that K12 bacteria when frozen and packaged into ice cream doesn't die. (I'm not interested in all bacteria. I want to know what happens to K12 when it's frozen and put into ice cream). And secondly, proof from the company that the efficacy of K12 remains when its processed and consumed in this way. Without that information, I can have no confidence that this product will do for me what the manufacturer claims. So why should I pay a premium to buy their ice cream?

Hi David,

I just called the company to ask the question around freezing bacteria.

Here's what I noted down during our conversation.... (apologies for any inaccuracies, this is a lay-person trying to comment on science... not always a perfect mix)...

They did extensive colonization trials to test the effectiveness of the ice-cream product, and make sure that K12 was still detectable and effective in the mouth in sufficient quantities after eating the ice-cream. Turns out the ice-cream is probably a better vehicle for getting K12 into the oral cavity than lozenges, since the -20 degree temperatures used in the ice-cream manufacture/storage enables better shelf life stability of the bacteria (compared to lozenges). Some bacteria are lost in the freezing process, however they throw enough K12 in during the manufacturing process that each serving of the end product has the same number of effective bacteria as a lozenge. When frozen, the bacteria aren't killed, they simply sit in a form of stasis until thawed in the mouth, at which time they start to colonise the oral cavity. Interestingly, the K12 used in lozenges undergoes the same 'freeze-dry' process as the K12 in the ice-cream, in order to prolong shelf-life/usability etc.

I'm assuming that since the K12 in both lozenges and ice-cream undergo the same freeze-dry process, then the effectiveness of the bacteria in both formats would be the same. The ice-cream just see less stressors on the bacteria and provides improved shelf-life stability.

So, long story short, the effectiveness of the K12 in ice-cream is the same, if not better, as K12 in lozenge format.

[simla]

Anyone have any guesses about the AGM? The end of the last report said they hoped to report on "the status of the capital-raising" at the AGM. I hope we hear an update on revenue anyway. Logically things should be picking up, but anything is always possible with Blis.

[Nigel]

Thanks Nigel, that answers the question nicely! I hope that Blis put that information up on their website at some stage too, it would be very helpful if they did. Just as an aside, a 27 year old foreign student that I know of has had chronic sore throats for years, treated with antibiotics, but without lasting success. He was recently told that if these contiune for much longer he will have to have his tonsils out. But as a non NZ resident, he cannot get this operation or the antibiotics to treat it with for free in this country. Chronic use of antibiotics is unhelpful to both him, and to all of us as it increases the risk of developing antibiotic resistant strains of bugs which is bad news for everyone. I brought him some Bliss K12 to use as an alternative 'biological control' approach to his problem. After an initial severe soreness from using the product that lasted a couple of days ( I think due to the mouth wash irritating his already inflamed and tender throat passages) he has been sore throat free! This has been one of the longest periods he has experienced without a sore throat in years! So this product does work. As a disclaimer, I don't hold any shares in the company. I think it has a lot of marketing work to do to educate consumers (and thereby create demand) that the product does work, to have confidence in it and to know when to use it. Once they have done that then they may start to turn a profit, and I hope that they do!

Wow - that's a great story! I'm sure Blis would love to speak to him to record a formal testimonial!

[Oman]

The page for testimonials is: http://blis.co.nz/testimonials.html and the contact is: support@blis.co.nz

I agree that a genuine experience as described above would be nice to have on the testimonial page. Perhaps, David, your friend may like to send a comment to BLIS Ltd?

[Nigel]

Anyone attending the AGM on Friday? I would be grateful if someone could post on here during/after the session - especially any information about the capital raising, revenues, on-going viability of the company etc. A market cap of less than $6m seems very cheap for the IP and the potential that this company has. As soon as there is confidence around cash-flow and long-term viability, I think the shareprice will rebound. Already the murmurings around the ice-cream side of things seems positive. Buying at 1 cent at the moment I still see as risky, but once the signal is given that there is a future for Blis, then the shareprice recovery will be swift. Friday will be interesting.

[Maggie]

Anyone have any guesses about the AGM? The end of the last report said they hoped to report on "the status of the capital-raising" at the AGM. I hope we hear an update on revenue anyway. Logically things should be picking up, but anything is always possible with Blis.

I'll start the ball rolling with my guess. Would love to be there but unfortunately can't. I think that delisting will happen (I don't support that as this Company has a long history of communicating poorly), and this worries me. My gut says that there is more behind the delisting and subsequently the minority share purchase. Edinburgh have been increasing their shareholding through fair means or foul (!) so there has to be something behind that don't you think? Which reminds me... was there ever a resolution to the enquiry around the preference conversion trading? The new Director that they are putting up has ties to Mr Offen and co as well.

Hopefully sales are up in both sides of the business but who knows. Each year there are excuses so I have my fingers crossed for some forward progression this year. I think that the product is great. The Company was severely mismanaged in the early years and it has done some amazing things (e.g GRAS)over the last few years that have unfortunately not translated into sales...yet...

Anyone have any guesses as to what they will offer to buy the shares at should the Company delist?

[Nigel]

Anyone have any guesses as to what they will offer to buy the shares at should the Company delist?

I think the plan, if they de-list from the NZX, is to be listed on the NZAX. So I don't think there would be a buyout. I also don't think that the de-listing is a given, and that any such action would still be some time away. Like you, I hope that they remain on the NZX.

It's strange. It feels like Blis is on the cusp of almost getting there (although it feels like we've been on that cusp for several years yet haven't seen the results yet).

I'm pretty sure we haven't heard any resolution re the sell-down pre-conversion (share price went from 1.8 cents to 1 cent from memory at the same time as the sell-down by Mr Offen and Mr Edgar). There had also been a hugely negative announcement prior to this, which brought the shareprice down from 4 cents. I still wonder if a lot of the doom and gloom was to get the shareprice lower for a more favourable conversion for the preference share holders. Despite the need for operating cash, the last annual report was actually quite upbeat!

Friday will be interesting.

[Chippie]

Extracts from the Notice of meeting
“If the Special Resolution referred to in Resolution 6 of this notice of meeting is passed, any shareholder
who cast all the votes attached to shares registered in the shareholder's name and having the same
beneficial owner against the Special Resolution contained in Resolution 6 is entitled to require the
Company to purchase those shares in accordance with sections 110 and 111 of the Companies Act.”

“A shareholder who is entitled to require the Company to purchase shares may within 10 working
days of the passing of the resolution at a meeting of shareholders (being by 10 August 2012)
give a written notice to the Company requiring the Company to purchase those shares”

“The price must be a fair and reasonable price (as at the close of business on the day before the
date on which the resolution was passed) for the shares held by the shareholder, calculated as
follows:
(i) first, the fair and reasonable value of the total shares in each class to which the shares
belong must be calculated (the class value);
(ii) secondly, each class value must be adjusted to exclude any fluctuation (whether positive
or negative) in the class value that has occurred (whether before or after the resolution
was passed) that was due to, or in expectation of, the event proposed or authorised by
the resolution;”

[Chippie]

Share price was more like 4 cents prior to the announcement on 22 March which included the first talk of possibly delisting.

I am happy to keep my shares to the bitter end if they stay on the NZX, as I do feel optimistic. If not I have over a million shares and will be asking them to pay closer to the 4 cent mark than current price. My gut feeling is similar to Maggie and can not accept delisting for the big boys to benefit at our expense.

[emearg]

How to complete the proxy form?

Easy to know the full name of the directors but how do we know their full address? Help please...

[Chippie]

Please return completed proxy form to: BLIS Technologies Limited, Level 1, The Centre for
Innovation, 87 St David Street, PO Box 56, Dunedin or by facsimile to (03) 479 8954 by 12pm on 25
July 2012.

[neopoleII]

""Easy to know the full name of the directors but how do we know their full address? Help please...""
just another way that the board is working against most of its shareholders........
my forms have my csn number on them...... so why not just have a box to tick and then post it back?
well..... thats too easy for most shareholders to do.... they want you to work hard to get your right to vote.
and yes chippie..... its a bit late now to ask the question.
my guess is not many folks will be trying to find the directors addresses.
once the results come in..... i will be looking at the percentage of returned votes and possibly be making a formal complaint.
this is the first time that i have ever had to track down the personal address of a director to be able to cast a vote.
just goes to show....... the board is very keen to get delisted then sell out to major shareholder and get a reward of some sort.... maybe keep their jobs.
just remember..... the board is supposed to work for all shareholders
i can some interesting legal issues in the future.

[fungus pudding]

""Easy to know the full name of the directors but how do we know their full address? Help please...""
just another way that the board is working against most of its shareholders........
my forms have my csn number on them...... so why not just have a box to tick and then post it back?
well..... thats too easy for most shareholders to do.... they want you to work hard to get your right to vote.
and yes chippie..... its a bit late now to ask the question.
my guess is not many folks will be trying to find the directors addresses.
once the results come in..... i will be looking at the percentage of returned votes and possibly be making a formal complaint.
this is the first time that i have ever had to track down the personal address of a director to be able to cast a vote.
just goes to show....... the board is very keen to get delisted then sell out to major shareholder and get a reward of some sort.... maybe keep their jobs.
just remember..... the board is supposed to work for all shareholders
i can some interesting legal issues in the future.

Just name them and put c/o Blis technologies.

[neopoleII]

Oh..........!

[simla]

Come, come, gentlemen. Remember that the company and the Board have steered Blis through quite a few challenges already. I agree there are possible outcomes here that we will not like, but that does not make them the most likely outcome. People do try to make sensible choices, remember.

Not only may this work out okay, but there is even the potential for good news tomorrow. Let's just wait and see.

[Nigel]

New bids showing at .01 and .011. Does this mean there's promising news coming out of today's meeting?

[Oman]

Probably does mean that, but only a wee bit maybe? Someone's decided to gamble 300ks worth.

[simla]

Releases on NZX. https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/225393

Delisting voted down. Good.

They think they can sell into Europe now because it is non-novel. Great.

Capital raising seems to involve selling licences. Sounds a good idea, and doesn't sound like we'll be asked for cash, but we really need someone who was there to tell us more!

Ice cream sales going well. Internet sales growing. New products in several countries. Doesn't sound like an import licence in China yet, but NZPR doing work readying for sales.

Q24 developing.

If they are desperate in any way at all, they sure didn't seem to feel any need to mention it in those presentations!

Is there anyone who was there can tell us more?

[Nigel]

Seller at .012 now taken out. This could get interesting. With the executioner apparently nowhere to be seen, maybe a little bit of confidence will return to the share price. It does seem very cheap at the moment - I think we were pricing for a complete folding of the company. A rebound to 2-4 cents would be welcome :) I posted a while ago that I'd only be investing money in Blis that I was prepared to lose. There's is still a risk attached to this stock, but it doesn't seem so 'doom and gloom' as was made out a couple of months ago, and certainly the chance for a significant upturn. Bring on the bright future!

[Nigel]

And now we're at .013. It's all happening :)

[simla]

Comments? At first sight, that would appear to mean that all the doom and gloom of the last few months has not amounted to anything other than a good buffeting for shareholders. In which case we appear to have a company fairly well placed for the coming year?