BLT - Blis Technologies

[Balance]

It is sad that three companies which arrived on the scene around 2002 with so much promise Pacific Edge, Bliss Technologies and Botryzen did not thrive. Back then there was much optimism that they were potentially world class cutting edge biotech's with great potential. Alas Botyryzen went out of business years ago and both PEB and BLIS are struggling to gain traction. Why is it so hard for NZ companies to scale up and succeed. The Nordic countries and Israel can WHY CANT WE???.

Plenty of success stories, Sgt Pepper - just not in the listed space where these companies were listed to make money for the promoters, very very little to do with the viability of the companies.

Bliss was listed in a blaze of hype - the selected few who obtained stock at the IPO at 20c sold millions of shares at $2.00 and above on listing. The real money was already made at that point.

Many of the selected few were brokers. Get the picture?

PS. And PEB shows that hype works in sucking in the money even when the underlying business does not deliver - refer PEB thread.

[RGR367]

There's something about Dunedin water why we have all this hyping and failing companies down there :t_down:

[Balance]

There's something about Dunedin water why we have all this hyping and failing companies down there :t_down:

The Dunedin mafia, ably co-ordinated by Forsyth Barr of Feltex, Credit Sails and South Canterbury Finance fame?

[sb9]

There's something about Dunedin water why we have all this hyping and failing companies down there :t_down:

With the exception of Scott Tech though :) they're going great guns...

[fungus pudding]

NO NO ....definitely NO

Why would anybody want to buy it anyway ...is what they have really special anyway

I've kept an eye on Blis for sometime, having a particular interest in my hometown, Dunedin, companies. I even bought a few shares - then tried the products. I quickly sold the shares because I decided the stuff was useless. That was around the time they launched the ice-cream. Several posters on this site appear very enthusiastic about Blis products, but they haven't proved popular at all in any markets - and dare I say it, they never will.

[Brain]

I have kept an eye on this company too. I use their products and find them very effective. I have owned the shares which I sold at a small loss after I came to the conclusion that these guys are probably scientists without the necessary business skills to commercialise this product. Shame really - great product bad marketing.

[bullfrog]

After noticing probiotics has been added to my supermarket juice (and I can vouch that it quenched my thirst, gave me energy and made me feel good), I started to see probiotics everywhere. With that in mind, I looked for a low value small company selling probiotics that could tap this growth market. Growth market? Well I found this graph on https://nccih.nih.gov/research/statistics/NHIS/2012/natural-products/trends
but it stops at 2012. Only fish oil is growing faster.
Interested to see more up to date results, but I believe probiotics is the new Manuka, and this small company that’s survived so long is therefore worth a punt.
9259

[Grimy]

I was a holder for a while a few years back. Sold for a little profit, but got tired of waiting for the good news to turn to dollars.
I used to use their products too. They did appear to work somewhat for me, but not enough to justify the outlay.
I continue to watch their progress and hope for the sake of long-time holders that things do finally turn the corner. One day. Soon..........

[Balance]

PEB, SeaDragon, PIL, Bliss - wealth destroyers who seem to be able to con the market to keep funding them with many millions of dollars on the promise of 'it's just around the corner'.

[simla]

A really interesting article from Brian Gaynor yesterday about Fletchers. He basically opines that it would have gone better if they had a board of people with strong backgrounds in construction instead of broad business backgrounds. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11937669

I think Blis was particularly lucky with Barry who spent decades in manufacturing in the dairy industry. He seemed to know how to handle the finance questions, the research questions, the legal questions, the manufacturing questions and yet still how to spend a whole lot of time with your clients finding out what their secret reservations were and meeting them. All, presumably, because he had lived through all this before.

In NZ we have spend some decades telling people to go to university instead of polytech. Even those who "should" go to polytech are told it is so they can build more houses for more mortgages. But big old industries were all built up by people who started as apprentices and learnt the whole industry over the years. They didn't get business degrees and then take up management positions, instead they built up very hard knowledge of their industries.

It may be that this explains why NZ has difficulty getting some of these businesses off the ground. How many people like that do we have now, and do people with business degrees get chosen ahead of them anyway maybe? Brian Gaynor is a clever fellow and maybe he is on to something with this thought. Don't know how that would apply to BLT in particular though, as it pretty hard to know just what is going on inside the company from our viewpoint.

Discl: After expressing ongoing reservations here over the last year I have now finally ceased being a shareholder. I have previously posted that I have been selling down over the year, and last week I added the little I had left to the big throughput of the day. I dare say the company has a future but I feel I've done my bit now.

[winner69]

looks like most of the long serving stalwarts have jumped ship

Hope there is another lot of new disciples coming on board to keep the thread going

closing in on million posts ...that's pretty good

[simla]

In my case, as I've said before, I just don't understand what plan the new management are following. I dare say there is one, but I just don't seem to be able to hear it. No point in investing in something you don't understand. As you say it is the old timers who are going. Presumably fresh eyes will see things from a new angle that we old timers are not seeing? Time will tell.

[winner69]

In my case, as I've said before, I just don't understand what plan the new management are following. I dare say there is one, but I just don't seem to be able to hear it. No point in investing in something you don't understand. As you say it is the old timers who are going. Presumably fresh eyes will see things from a new angle that we old timers are not seeing? Time will tell.

Maybe new eyes will see things from a new angle ....but the greater fool theory also comes to mind

[simla]

I seem to recall someone with a name like yours confidently telling us that they would never exceed 500k in sales. Well, that wasn't how it played out. :)

Just because you and I don't understand where they think they are going does not mean they aren't going anywhere. From my point of view, I thought the latest news was confirmation that they were not going where I thought they should be going, but the release sounded unconcerned so maybe they have other ideas. I'm happy to leave them to it, but that does not mean I'm making the right choice.

Sadly, this is what growing older is all about - the next lot having other ideas and the old ideas becoming inappropriate in the new context. After all, everyone wrote off Labour a while ago but now everyone seems to be celebrating a new young government going places that we were not going before. Times change. Ideas change. Wrong becomes right. Right becomes wrong.

It's a weird world.

[winner69]

I seem to recall someone with a name like yours confidently telling us that they would never exceed 500k in sales. Well, that wasn't how it played out. :)

Just because you and I don't understand where they think they are going does not mean they aren't going anywhere. From my point of view, I thought the latest news was confirmation that they were not going where I thought they should be going, but the release sounded unconcerned so maybe they have other ideas. I'm happy to leave them to it, but that does not mean I'm making the right choice.

Sadly, this is what growing older is all about - the next lot having other ideas and the old ideas becoming inappropriate in the new context. After all, everyone wrote off Labour a while ago but now everyone seems to be celebrating a new young government going places that we were not going before. Times change. Ideas change. Wrong becomes right. Right becomes wrong.

It's a weird world.

May have done but that corner dairy has expanded into more of a minimart and probably still turning over more than Blis

.."nd of course inflation

[simla]

We all know you're a smart cookie, Winner. No worries. Just saying there's no knowing what the future actually holds. :)

[Balance]

closing in on million posts ...that's pretty good

The company and those who believed in the 'it is just around the corner' cannot say that there has been lack of interest in this company!

As of Friday, a sad indictment however on how much time has been wasted seemingly on a company which few seem to really understand?

[suse]

Didnt this board just get a pay rise. I'm feeling annoyed. Earlier this year they had issues with 2 key customers buying patterns impacting on sales for the last FY and said everything was looking rosey for this year. Now they have issues again with key customers overbuying and not reordering... I think they need to stop patting themselves on the back when they get a big order and make sure they are getting sustainable orders.

I still believe in the product but as a shareholder I'm not really feeling the love at the moment.

[simla]

As of Friday, a sad indictment however on how much time has been wasted seemingly on a company which few seem to really understand?
Investment returns are indeed a reasonable consideration.

But let's not forget that money is not actually the whole world.

PEB is there to stop people dying painful and lingering deaths, and their technology is indeed in the field.

BLT is there to keep mouths healthy. I have hardly used toothpaste for years now, just Blis tablets every few days, and my dentist raves about the health of my mouth. Further, the trials showed that Blis is very good at rheumatic fever, a nasty and expensive disease too.

I have no idea if these two companies will reap the profits, but I am certain that their technologies are now in the field for a long time. That is excellent news for human beings. And remember that a health problem is about the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US, and both of these products reduce that cost.

I will retain always a pride in being a small part of ensuring that oral probiotics are now a permanent part of humanity's arsenal, and the Blis ones in particular.

[hardt]

Has anyone noticed how Blis fork out 20% of revenues to the top 7 staff members and the board?

Pocketing such a huge portion of sales leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth ( a would be buyer of BLT )

... NPAT would be boosted quite dramatically FY18 by a slight cut back and performance incentives.

So 30%+ of revenues are being paid directly to 7 people.

No one has answered my question as to why shareholders aren't constantly raising grief about this...

I asked for justification and am yet to receive an answer a month on, not even acknowledgment of the email.

I was >< this close to buying into BLT last month but was really baffled by the exec pay...

Shareholders, please raise some hell.

[Ninefingers]

Re Half year report: Is "stock buildup" codeword for "no one wants to buy our product"??

[silverblizzard888]

Is ignorance Blis?

If Blis can't manage to keep consistent sales or if their customers can't keep sales up that they begin to stock pile their product, then it places a big question mark on the stability of the company, will this happen again in the future? Good, but costly product with no mainstream appeal yet. They need a page from the Yakult ($10 billion company) play book.

[steveb]

the product just does not look good on the shelf,the packaging is so bad that customers are just not drawn to it.I spent forever looking for blis products in my local pharmacy.Instead of paying the directors massive increases the money would have been better spent on a good marketing company.Get the product moving and word of mouth will soon increase sales

Disc holding just not worth selling

[Benny1]

Looks like I can kiss that investment goodbye ....lucky it's only a small amount ...😂

[Hectorplains]

...word of mouth will soon increase sales

Disc holding just not worth selling Best pun of the day. What happened to their K9 market? I leave that for someone else to deliver the punch line.

[suse]

I asked about k9 at a show they were at and it sounded like that wasn’t happening.

The new ceo has managed to drive this sp down from 6 c to 1.8. Extremely disappointing.

Feeling very flat about blis at the mo.

[Balance]

When a company keeps promising better times ahead, and occasionally delivers but principally disappoints - behavior of a drug addict or alcoholic.

Would you trust your money with such a person?

[simla]

I continue to try to get a clear handle on the how this is playing out for my own peace of mind.

I spent the last couple of years expressing ongoing confusion about where the company is now headed, and accordingly over that period I slowly sold down and now I no longer hold, as I said recently. But though I am no longer a shareholder, yet I like to understand what I am seeing.

Looking at the last couple of years of announcements, the following strikes me as significant:

AGM Presentations: Note the considerable change in these statements from the old management to the new:

AGM Presentation July 2015: "• Strategy is building a solid base of ingredient sales .. and to broaden the base of BLIS branded and co-branded oral health consumer sales with trade partners in key markets"
AGM Presentation July 2016: "• Increasing the proportion of revenue delivered through branded finished goods • Driving global value propositions"


2016, March Annual report:

"A core function of the Board is to regularly review strategy and to monitor performance against key outcomes. Some key outcomes of our recent strategy review have highlighted certain particular aspects as follows. We re-affirmed the purpose of the company as leadership in the commercial applications of BLISTM-producing microbes. We defined key outcomes in three key areas: positioning our products, our supply chain and the pipeline of new products, each of which is outlined in more detail below."
Positioning: "We are moving our focus towards being a supplier of BLISTM-branded finished goods (including prominent co-branding) to help ensure that Blis Technologies is recognised as the source. Our value proposition to our customers and consumers is that we understand their needs so that we can deliver a real health benefit. Therefore, we will seek to engage more directly in the consumer relationship."
Supply Chain: "We see the company as the core source of knowledge about our BLISTM products. Therefore, we will invest more in developing the internal expertise and processes all through our supply chain: this goes from the organism to fermentation to formulation to end-products, including regulatory aspects and clinical efficacy right through to the consumer."
Product Pipeline: "[Paraphrase: We will put work into reviewing our intellectual property for future use]"


2016, September Half year report:

Positioning: "We are moving our focus towards being a supplier of BLISTM-branded finished goods (including prominent co-branding) to help ensure that Blis Technologies is recognised as the source. This is based on our increased understanding of the customer value proposition and supported by credible clinical data. At the same time branded ingredient sales will be actively managed recognising this important revenue stream. New initiatives include.
HoneyBlis TM in NZ and Australia
Co-Branding initiative in Japan
New launch activity in Europe
Revised agreement with our NZ distributor
Supply Chain: "We see the company as the core source of knowledge about our BLISTM products. To support this capability build, we have employed a new Business Manager and a Technical Manager and continue to focus on future capacity needs to meet market demand."


2017, March Annual report:

Positioning: "We are moving our focus towards being a supplier of BLIS®-branded finished goods (including prominent co-branding) to help ensure that Blis Technologies is recognized as the source; this is a means of future-proofing the business by developing a closer relationship with customers and consumers.
Launch of new product offers: BLIS M18® products, ToothGuardTM and ToothGuardTM Junior into NZ retail, HoneyBlis TM launched in Australia and NZ, BLIS EliteProTM (high dose BLIS K12® targeted at athletes) launched, and ongoing collaboration with elite sports organisations
Appointment of a new advertising agency to support marketing and launch activity, Website development with launch early in the 2018 financial year, significantly refining both the on-line sales channel and corporate communication.


2017, September half year report:

Positioning: "We are moving our focus towards being a supplier of BLISTM-branded finished goods (including prominent co-branding) to help ensure that the Company is recognised as the source."



Conclusion?

It is all pretty consistent looking back at those reports: it is all about finished goods now, not ingredients. I think it would have been much easier for me to understand back then if the report of two years ago had included this phrase: "We are completely changing our strategy" - if I am correct in understanding that that is what has happened.

Barry put forward his own initial strategy about 10 years ago. As I recall it, he proposed that Blis was too small to do global marketing and the solution was to develop a whole stack of global alliances based on ingredient sales. He then set about doing so and sales were going pretty well by the time he left.

It would now appear (to me anyway) that the company then must have decided it had the resources to attempt global marketing itself, or some hybrid of that anyway. I could be wrong about that though. Either way, the 2016 report does say they reviewed the situation and the board have endorsed the strategy, and since then they have consistently said they are moving to a finished goods strategy, which would appear to me anyway to be a considerable change of direction. The board might be presumed to have deliberately chosen the new CEO to pursue that strategy, since the board went out of its way to say in the first subsequent report that "a core function of the Board is to regularly review strategy".


So, I do not claim to be correct by any means. I am just looking for possible interpretations of events. But looking back on the last couple of years of reports, it does seem to me that that is what has happened here. The company has deliberately adopted a very different strategy and spent quite a lot of money to pursue it. As I say, I personally would have preferred that they had made a big thing of making sure we all understood that at the time, but I suppose they feel they did.


If that analysis is correct (and I do say "if") then the situation now is somewhat easier to understand. There has been a major shift in strategy, and a whole lot of expenditure/investment to achieve that, and presently the company is in a half-way house where the old strategy is perhaps not delivering as strongly as when it was the focus of the company but neither is the new strategy yet delivering strong results to replace that. On top of which, there seems to have been the same ongoing random bad news to cope with, and which always costs in terms of both strategy and cash.

If so, then what next? Well, there I have no idea. That this new strategy is consuming money presently is probably pretty clear. Expenditure of the company has increased significantly over the last couple of years. That the new strategy will pay off remains to be seen in the future presumably. The working capital position is obviously something to keep an eye on, and they do mention "may seek additional capital" in the notes on page 11 but which they link to ongoing investment in the future.


Am I going to buy back in based on my new interpretation of what we are seeing? Not personally, but I do feel better that at least I can see why they are doing what they are doing. If I am right about any of this anyway, which I may easily not be!

Discl: Not a shareholder, DYOR.

[suse]

Thanks Simla, very interesting. I use the product and believe in it (and recommend to all and sundry) but I am starting to wonder if I should just cut my losses and put what money is left into something that might actually make some money (certainly HBL, PPH and ATM have been providing me with that)

Actually for the sake of everyone else I should probably do that, because you can bet that once I sell the price will go up :)

I have to admit though I always thought of my BLIS shares as ones I was just going to let sit quietly and flog off in 10 or so years. I guess if I was a shareholder 10 years ago and had thought that, I wouldnt be very happy today. Makes me re-evaluate my (admittedly poorly thought out) strategy. Believing in a product doesnt necessarily equate to making any money.

[simla]

I am starting to wonder if I should just cut my losses
Yeah, well, not the happiest report ever, there's no denying it. The company didn't need negative cash flow. I suppose each investor needs to decide what they anticipate happening next.

[Leftfield]

But wait..... don't give up yet.

BLIS K12 Gains Australian Regulatory Approval

Blis Technologies has received notification from the Australian Therapeutic
Goods Administration, that its probiotic strain Streptococcus salivarius BLIS
K12 has been approved as an active ingredient for Listed Complementary
Medicines.

CEO Brian Watson said, "This approval will allow us to enter the Australian
market with our finished product portfolio based on BLIS K12. The Australian
probiotic supplement market is the 6th largest globally and it is growing at
46% annually so represents a priority growth market for Blis. Within the NZ
market, Blis branded BLIS K12 Throat Lozenges are now ranked as the 2nd
largest brand in 'NZ Pharmacy Throat Lozenge' category and the fastest
growing of the top 5 brands. This gives us a lot of confidence in the market
potential of the larger Australian market and we are accelerating our plans
to launch in 2018 based on this important milestone."

[silverblizzard888]

New distribution partner for NZ Pharmacy channel

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/310757


Keep changing things so it looks like you're making improvements?

[Golfer01]

New distribution partner for NZ Pharmacy channel

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/310757


Keep changing things so it looks like you're making improvements?

Perhaps they've finally realised that they need to get of their chuffs and start selling the product. Probably fearful that their jobs are in jeopardy and their CVs wouldn't be looking too good with their previous employer being a PL company in liquidation... Cynical I know but I'm so disappointed with company and their continued lack of performance. I've been a shareholder for 20 years and every year I tell myself, this is going be the year.... Maybe this year??? mmmmmmmmmmmm, right.....

[suse]

this morning I patted my pi xiu and said get to work on Blis will you. And already the share price is up. Let it be said that my investment strategies are right out there with conspiracy theories! :)

[Leftfield]

I've also given my small remaining free holding a severe telling off, and am watching with interest.

Simla, I appreciate your last post. I can't help thinking that BLT's focus on ingredient sales had flaws as it exposed them to huge variations in sales as a result of changes in customers bulk ordering. Being reliant on a few large customers had its issues for BLT.

I suspect the move to more direct 'consumer' sales and branding of their own product is an attempt to increase the customer base and take more control of their distribution channels and products. I like the hint of increased marketing in Australia to come.

Is it too little, too late? Will they succeed? Who knows, it won't be easy, but I'm going to hold and watch with interest. I expect it will take 12 - 24 months before we begin to see results. Let's hope they don't run out of cash in the meantime.

[winner69]

Is this exciting or what ....never can tell with Blis

https://quoteapi.com/resources/da9866271f9d0071/announcements/blt.nzx/313253/BLT_Blis_Technologies_Limited_Update_of_the_Compan y_Performance.pdf

[suse]

hmmm no I dont think it's exciting at all. Blis has proved to be a major disappointment for me. It's time they were fully in the black. No doubt the share price will drop even lower with this announcement. :(

[pierre]

hmmm no I dont think it's exciting at all. Blis has proved to be a major disappointment for me. It's time they were fully in the black. No doubt the share price will drop even lower with this announcement. :(

Agreed - no excitement attached to this "news".
Third quarter revenue similar to the same period last year.

What's happening in China - that was supposed to be the new market opportunity?

What are the expensive marketing people actually doing?
Feels like BLT is just treading water and making no progress at all.

Hopeless!

[tzbang]

Well that's it.. I'm out at a loss. Given up being disappointed with Blis.

[Baa_Baa]

Over 16.5 years and 98% loss on share price. Sad sad story.
9430

[simla]

Actually, I thought that was pretty positive compared to the last couple of years.
1. Small net profit for Q3, second time ever.
2. Expecting a small net profit for Q4, third time ever.
3. First time I recall in a couple of years of talking of controlling costs.
4. An overtone of understanding that shareholders might not be overly happy at present?
5. Actually providing guidance in January for the first time ever.

Not exactly winning the lotto, but two quarters of profit, attempts to control costs, and engaging with shareholders? Not bad.

[THEONE]

https://www.anzctr.org.au/Trial/Registration/TrialReview.aspx?id=369873

[Leftfield]

I'm with you Simla. I smell life in this one yet.

Disc; Free holding and happy.

[Balance]

Over 16.5 years and 98% loss on share price. Sad sad story.
9430

Shares were issued at 20c and listed at $2.00.

So 90% loss or 99% - does not really matter.

[Golfer01]

Shares were issued at 20c and listed at $2.00.

So 90% loss or 99% - does not really matter.

Not really but that chart shows my history of being a shareholder in this company.... If there's life still in it then how many defibulators have they flattened the batteries on to keep going....:confused:

[suse]

Crikey, that chart is truly depressing.....

[simla]

Well, with luck BLT just bottomed. Talk of cost control is a very encouraging development if you ask me.

And they did say, " We continue to see in market year on year customer sales grow across our major markets in Europe and the USA."

Sales going up, costs going down = Bliss? :) Time will tell.

[dgrizz72]

It's great to hear some positivity Simla! I have averaged down over the last few months and am happy to sit on this. As a relatively new holder I am hoping to not be as disappointed in BLIS as some of the longer term holders are now in the future!

[Balance]

It's great to hear some positivity Simla! I have averaged down over the last few months and am happy to sit on this. As a relatively new holder I am hoping to not be as disappointed in BLIS as some of the longer term holders are now in the future!

Never average down is one golden rule I follow and each time I ignored it in the past, I regret!

You are buying more and more of a deteriorating story in a declining share price.

[steveb]

Of course it does depend on the company.I could see nothing wrong with AIR when I bought in at just over $3.00 in april 16.As the price dropped I could still see nothing fundamentally wrong> I averaged down so many times AIR ended up over 30% of my portfolio.But when you are buying at under $2.00 with a .35cent divvie,it can't be bad.

Simple answer is golden rules are made for breaking just get the research done before you wade in.

Disc still holding BLIS and happy to

[pierre]

Well, with luck BLT just bottomed. Talk of cost control is a very encouraging development if you ask me.

And they did say, " We continue to see in market year on year customer sales grow across our major markets in Europe and the USA."

Sales going up, costs going down = Bliss? :) Time will tell.

Must be time for you to leap back into BLT again Simla! Always enjoyed your comments in the past - and good to see you're still following the company's fortunes - such as they are!

BLT say sales are increasing - but only mention Europe and the USA. Maybe - but what's happening in other markets - like Asia? Clearly nothing is happening there - other than go backwards. The lack of comment about that region is worrying because just a few years ago China seemed to be where the gold was to be mined but there's not even a hint about that in the latest announcement.


The revenue achieved for the year ended 31 March 2016 was $5.6 million - and the original forecast for the 2017 year was for $8 million. We all know that didn't happen. Now the FY18 revenue forecast is "in excess of $5 million" - 2 years have gone by and no sales growth at all!

The (unaudited) profit for the last quarter is miniscule. If the EBITDA result was $200k, you can bet your boots the "small net profit" will disappear very quickly if the auditors find BLT has missed accounting for the staff tea and coffee expenses for December.

These results are incredibly disappointing when the company is headed by an ex-Fonterra man who has been in the role for two years and was supposed to bring sales and marketing skills to the business. There's no evidence at all of any progress being made on his watch, other than inflated sales claims that were quickly proved to be pure BS. And now this:

" During the 3rd quarter the company has taken further measures to control its' cost base focusing resources on growth generating initiatives."

One has to wonder what the hell Brian Watson and his team were focusing resources on for the previous 18 months! (And to make that announcement even worse - there's no apostrophe required on "its".)

Time to shape up or ship out? Elementary, my dear Watson.

DISCL: Have been a shareholder since 2005 and hold millions of shares. I'm currently at break even and have been waiting patiently for the big day to arrive. I think the time to bail out is very close - or at least to reduce my exposure.

[Balance]

The revenue achieved for the year ended 31 March 2016 was $5.6 million - and the original forecast for the 2017 year was for $8 million. We all know that didn't happen. Now the FY18 revenue forecast is "in excess of $5 million" - 2 years have gone by and no sales growth at all!
[/LEFT]


BLT is going through the classic earnings downgrade cycle - two so far, at least one more to go, and the next one will be accompanied by yet another capital raising.

Amazing how these SI based biotech companies (PEB is another which comes to mind) are able to string investors and shareholders along, promising turnarounds aplenty, failing to deliver and yet, continue to milk the market for capital.

Incidentally, notice the executives are paid rather well?

[steveb]

BLT is going through the classic earnings downgrade cycle - two so far, at least one more to go, and the next one will be accompanied by yet another capital raising.

Amazing how these SI based biotech companies (PEB is another which comes to mind) are able to string investors and shareholders along, promising turnarounds aplenty, failing to deliver and yet, continue to milk the market for capital.

Incidentally, notice the executives are paid rather well?

Where do you think they might try to raise some capitol?I don't think shareholders would have a bar of it,if they are looking at a downgrade,they would be better off trying to find a buyer for the company.

[fungus pudding]

they would be better off trying to find a buyer for the company.

They would be better off marketing a product that consumers want.

[Balance]

Where do you think they might try to raise some capitol?I don't think shareholders would have a bar of it,if they are looking at a downgrade,they would be better off trying to find a buyer for the company.

If not shareholders, who?

Placement to institutions is a possibility but they will extract a huge price on BLT - maybe placement at 1c?

Hard to imagine why anyone would buy this company - it's still capitalised at $21m and bleeding money.

I think the Chinese would have bought this company is China has indeed taken off - it has gone all quiet indeed after all the excitement in 2014 of Sinopharm releasing BLT's products over its 600 shops.

Anyway, cash is running out with the profit downgrade so really, matter of time before additional capital is required.

[hardt]

BLT is going through the classic earnings downgrade cycle - two so far, at least one more to go, and the next one will be accompanied by yet another capital raising.

Amazing how these SI based biotech companies (PEB is another which comes to mind) are able to string investors and shareholders along, promising turnarounds aplenty, failing to deliver and yet, continue to milk the market for capital.

Incidentally, notice the executives are paid rather well?

Grossly overpaid when tied to performance... which there is very little of in the first place.


So 30%+ of revenues are being paid directly to 7 people.

No one has answered my question as to why shareholders aren't constantly raising grief about this...

I asked for justification and am yet to receive an answer a month on, not even acknowledgment of the email.

I was >< this close to buying into BLT last month but was really baffled by the exec pay...

Shareholders, please raise some hell.

I have sent another email since without response...

I still do not see how all these shareholders are okay with this kind of bull.

[THEONE]

I have been a shareholder for probably about 90% of the last 12 years...I understand the frustrations and doom and gloom..

I actually bought back in recently I think @ 21 million market Cap is good value. Potential is huge, downside risk relatively low if you invest in a rights issue etc. Need to be patient for a few more years though.

The main issues I think have been time consuming, costly and ever changing regulation. Relying on other companies to buy the ingredients.
Then burning through cash with fixed costs..

I like the new packaging and talk of selling finished product in other countries. This is much higher margin. Sales of existing ingredient product show
there is demand for the product..If you converted the ingredient sales to finished product my guess should be sales of 20 million plus?

Obviously selling finished product has a much higher marketing cost. But ultimately the product is cheap to make...it is just bacteria and they have their own factory. Once they cover Fixed costs, sales are very profitable.

I think they need a capital raising to invest heavily in marketing and distribution of finished product in Australia and Canada..

They should also look at other markets where they can make health claims. I think they need to sell into a big market in Asia.
Maybe Japan or even Hong Kong ?

Hong kong only has a population 7.3 million but has around 50 million chinese tourist a year.

I think the biggest risks is if they tread water for the next 10 years just covering fixed costs...Better to be agressive and invest in marketing.
Look at Ecoya and 42 below...Great marketing and distribution. I saw inner health plus sticker covering a pharmacy window the other day. One of their products was $89.95?

Marketing and distribution has been the number one issue..Its great that they have Blis Q24 coming soon, but they need to be agressive at selling existing products..Blis M18 is rarely seen in any pharmacy..The fresh Breath Kit is crazily expensive..

Maybe they could get a brand ambassador..Evolution Health (australia) sold 78000 priobiotc products on singles day
https://www.nutraingredients-asia.com/Article/2017/11/20/Probiotic-manufacturer-Evolution-Health-smashes-China-Singles-Day-sales-record

They are having masssive chinese sales growth 14.5 million (2015) 35 million (2016)
http://www.evolutionhealth.com.au/media/

They should try and get on Tmall and invest more in adwords and internet marketing. Looks like they stopped adwords and are investing in Facebook ads. I think would be quite profitable selling product from their website especially the Fresh Breath Kit...Selling a product which probably costs them less than $4 for $30...if they become a regular customer thats net $312 net per year.

They need to sell their own finished product, not hope for other companies buy the ingredient

At the moment they don't have the funds for a decent marketing and distibution push..

If they don't start to make progress soon, I might try and become a Director.. Simla I would vote for you instead if you are interested?

Have you bought back in? I liked the last annoucement from Blis..Worded much better..Fingers crossed this was just a blip..New CEO seems to have the right idea.

Discllosue...Do your own research this is my opinion only and is not profession advice... Is not a recommendation to buy or sell. I am often wrong and so far have been with this share..

[simla]

If they don't start to make progress soon, I might try and become a Director.. Simla I would vote for you instead if you are interested?

Well, thanks kindly for me, but I am out now. I'd be happy for you standing if you were willing as I am all in favour of people on the board who have a long investment in the place. But I have no votes of course!

Thanks for the post on Q24 on the last page. Good to see it progressing, but hard to tell how far down the road they are.

[Leftfield]

Simla, Good post (#5557). I wonder have you sent a copy of it to the CEO? It would be interesting to see how he responds.

[simla]

Yes, it was a thoughtful post. Not by me though!

[THEONE]

This is the company I mentioned in my previous post. Shows the potential is there...

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/138-million-windfall-for-kiwi-ceo-after-lifespace-sale/news-story/24a5568346bdff6f5b50410af3fd4e9d

Noticed this from ASX listed probiotics company BXN http://www.bioxyne.com/site/PDF/1739_0/QuarterlyActivitiesandQuarterlyCashFlowReportDec17

BK18 - BK18™ a dairy-based breakfast replacement which includes an immune boosting probiotic,
and a range of key vitamins suitable for the whole family. Sales of US$176,000 were made in the
quarter.

Looks like is Blis k12 Probiotic http://www.globaltreasure.com.ph/ but they probably didnt earn much from it.

bioxyne.com is getting into Direct Selling..N H Chua who used to lead the sales for Newimage is behind it. Newimage sales were quite high at one stage.. Remember years ago was listed on NZX. Colostrum was their main product.

I actually quit like the new promotional material for the dentist distributor http://henryschein.co.nz/documents/PDFs/BLIS%2017%20eDetailer.pdf

[artemis]

Went to the dentist yesterday for a checkup, first in 3 years. No issues apart from a small piece of one old filling that had fallen out. I mentioned I've been taking Blis M18 (aka Healthy Teeth) and though he knew about Blis throat products he didn't know about M18. Pretty sure he will follow up.

Very experienced and smart dentist in a medium sized practice, so that says to me dentists might not be up with the play on M18. Certainly widespread use could impact their income stream over time but I really don't think that would be a factor for most.

[GR8DAY]

....gosh a bit of news.

[Benny1]

Now two bits of news.....
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316410

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316402

[NeverQuestion]

Now two bits of news.....
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316410

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316402

Nice to see something positive after a terrible report.

[GR8DAY]

Now two bits of news.....
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316410

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316402

..........make that golly gosh! (yes Im being sarcastic in case anyone didnt realize) Hey maybe the start of the big turn around and back to 6c SP????????

[Leftfield]

..........make that golly gosh! (yes Im being sarcastic in case anyone didnt realize) Hey maybe the start of the big turn around and back to 6c SP????????

Only a matter of time!! :t_up:

[suse]

full year figures should be ready by now. I'm guessing that since they havent made an announcement yet they are still trying to massage the figures to look not as bad. This share continues to disappoint.... but I'm happy to have my mind changed!

[pierre]

full year figures should be ready by now. I'm guessing that since they havent made an announcement yet they are still trying to massage the figures to look not as bad. This share continues to disappoint.... but I'm happy to have my mind changed!

You may be a little optimistic about the timing of the full-year result. Last year's initial announcement was made on May 8. If the result is a positive one (and let's hope it is!) then we might get some news on Friday 20 or, more likely, Monday 23.

If it's released at 4.55pm on Friday 20 then most probably we all have another long year ahead of us.

[pak]

Yeah probably will be 4.55pm Friday
Followed by a CR at 4.59pm.
Just a guess..........

[winner69]

So this is what they’ve been up to as part of their iinnovation strategy

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/BLT/317138/278155.pdf

[Brain]

So this is what they’ve been up to as part of their innings cation strategy

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/BLT/317138/278155.pdf


I am sure this this will be a game changer. Totally innovative:)

[artemis]

I am sure this this will be a game changer. Totally innovative:)

Good to see all the same. I went to buy 2 x HoneyBlis from local pharmacy last week. Only one left on the shelf. (I did mention to the pharmacist.)

[GR8DAY]

.......here's some even more positive results on the product. (this is genuine) My eldest daughter just recently returned from Sydney with a wisdom tooth infection she has been fighting with anti-biotics over the past year. (she didnt want to have them removed) The infection returned twice after completing the anti-biotic courses. She was obviously in a lot of discomfort upon arrival here so I suggested she try the BLIS, which she did. She hit it pretty hard with 3 lozenges a day for 3 days before noticing an improvement. Within the week she confirmed total clearance of the infection and is now going to remain on a maintenance dose for however long. Great result i would have thought and I guess THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!!

[fungus pudding]

.......here's some even more positive results on the product. (this is genuine) My eldest daughter just recently returned from Sydney with a wisdom tooth infection she has been fighting with anti-biotics over the past year. (she didnt want to have them removed) The infection returned twice after completing the anti-biotic courses. She was obviously in a lot of discomfort upon arrival here so I suggested she try the BLIS, which she did. She hit it pretty hard with 3 lozenges a day for 3 days before noticing an improvement. Within the week she confirmed total clearance of the infection and is now going to remain on a maintenance dose for however long. Great result i would have thought and I guess THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!!
No proof of anything in that.

[GR8DAY]

No proof of anything in that.

.........clearly someone with a gripe with Blis. Did you buy a packet FUNGUS and it didnt work immediately (LOL)?? Maybe they were a bit mouldy FUNGUS? I didnt actually make a scientific claim BTW but I guess if you try something out and it does what it's supposed to anyone would call that a positive result based on their experience?? Ridiculous comment.

[fungus pudding]

.........clearly someone with a gripe with Blis. Did you buy a packet FUNGUS and it didnt work immediately (LOL)?? Maybe they were a bit mouldy FUNGUS? I didnt actually make a scientific claim BTW but I guess if you try something out and it does what it's supposed to anyone would call that a positive result based on their experience?? Ridiculous comment.

Hardly ridiculous. You claim your daughter's recovery was due to Blis, yet provide not one scrap of evidence of a causal link. A bit like saying your daughter was cured by the rain when it rained after a dry period simply because her condition improved. You made a claim with no proof of anything. Contemporaneous events are not proof of a link. Furthermore, if there is a link that could be established, what evidence is there that it wasn't a placebo effect? I think that perhaps it is you who is being ridiculous, rather than me. Then again I'm not a medical scientist. I certainly do not have a gripe with Blis, although I am extremely sceptical of the company and its products.

[GR8DAY]

Hardly ridiculous. You claim your daughter's recovery was due to Blis, yet provide not one scrap of evidence of a causal link. A bit like saying your daughter was cured by the rain when it rained after a dry period simply because her condition improved. You made a claim with no proof of anything. Contemporaneous events are not proof of a link. Furthermore, if there is a link that could be established, what evidence is there that it wasn't a placebo effect? I think that perhaps it is you who is being ridiculous, rather than me. Then again I'm not a medical scientist. I certainly do not have a gripe with Blis, although I am extremely sceptical of the company and its products.


.......hahahah funny fungus. My daughter didnt get rained on after a dry period and get cured. She took Blis as per the instructions and advice and the bad bacteria were displaced (probably) by the good bacteria (im keeping it simple for you to follow....but that's the ACTUAL science behind it)........so the infection disappeared. It's not rocket science it's simple science so I hope you can grasp it. Then again I guess it could have all been in her head (as it was, so to speak) and she used some positive thinking powers that somehow worked by clearing up a chronic and stubborn infection. As I said she had been treated not once but 3 times with anti-biotics for the infection to only return. The real proof i guess will be if over the longterm use of Blis the infection stays away. Watch this space.

[fungus pudding]

.......hahahah funny fungus. My daughter didnt get rained on after a dry period and get cured. She took Blis as per the instructions and advice and the bad bacteria were displaced (probably) by the good bacteria (im keeping it simple for you to follow....but that's the ACTUAL science behind it)........so the infection disappeared. It's not rocket science it's simple science so I hope you can grasp it. Then again I guess it could have all been in her head (as it was, so to speak) and she used some positive thinking powers that somehow worked by clearing up a chronic and stubborn infection. As I said she had been treated not once but 3 times with anti-biotics for the infection to only return. The real proof i guess will be if over the longterm use of Blis the infection stays away. Watch this space.

I dont doubt you can prove she is cured but there is no proof that blis caused it. Most sicknesses come right with a bit of time and do not recur. So if it stays away it still proves not a thing.

[minimoke]

.......here's some even more positive results on the product. (this is genuine) My eldest daughter just recently returned from Sydney with a wisdom tooth infection she has been fighting with anti-biotics over the past year. (she didnt want to have them removed) The infection returned twice after completing the anti-biotic courses. She was obviously in a lot of discomfort upon arrival here so I suggested she try the BLIS, which she did. She hit it pretty hard with 3 lozenges a day for 3 days before noticing an improvement. Within the week she confirmed total clearance of the infection and is now going to remain on a maintenance dose for however long. Great result i would have thought and I guess THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!!Actually the infections were due to the bad air in sydney. This is what caused the massive hand foot and mouth outbreak there a year ago. She is now breathing good New Zealand air and this has cured her and she will be fine until she returns to Sydney

Dr Minimoke

[pierre]

I have always been a fastidious brusher of my teeth and have visited my dentist religiously every 6 months, so I was alarmed when late last year he told me that I had severe periodontal (gum) disease, was at risk of losing all my teeth and that I needed to visit a specialist for treatment.


In February I underwent some fairly major oral surgery to deal with the problem that I had belatedly been made aware of by my dentist.
The procedure involved (all under anaesthetic) removal of three teeth that could not be saved, serious (and painful) scaling of plaque off all my teeth, including cutting of gums surrounding five teeth - so deep scaling could be undertaken - then suturing of the wounds. The periodontist told me that I was at serious risk of losing my remaining teeth over the forthcoming years due to the extremely poor condition of my gums. This all involved a great deal of discomfort and cost me several thousand dollars.

While I am now even more particular about my oral hygiene, immediately following the surgery I also decided I would start taking BLIS Toothguard which contains the M18 probiotic for oral health. I have been a shareholder in BLIS for many years but never before have I used any of its products.

Today I returned to the periodontist for my 3 months check-up (which I will do every quarter from now on) and in his words he "was amazed at the condition of my gums." He said they have returned to almost normal condition, he could not believe how good they now are and how quickly they have recovered. He said that f they remain in this condition my risk of tooth loss is now almost negligible.

I then advised him that I had been taking BLIS M18 for the last 3 months. His eyes widened and he said that had heard of the product but had always been unconvinced of the science behind it. "Your changed condition is so amazing that I think I might now be a believer" he said. He intends to prepare a paper on the results of my case and to circulate it among his colleagues.

As a result of my experience I will definitely be changing my dentist - but what I wont be changing is taking one BLIS Toothguard tablet each night.

[artemis]

pierre I had similar experience though much much less serious. I mentioned in a post above. My dentist did not know about M18. He does now but that says to me BLT should be educating dentists.

Maybe you could send your post to BLT along with the name of your dentist. They should be able to provide scientific background for his paper.

Some dentists might see M18 as competition but I am sure most won't.

I also wonder about the experiments on school children here and in Italy. Seems they were successful and even a small reduction in strep throat >>> rheumatic fever would pay for itself quickly. Cheaper than a full time school nurse anyway.

[pierre]

[QUOTE=artemis;713218]pierre I had similar experience though much much less serious. I mentioned in a post above. My dentist did not know about M18. He does now but that says to me BLT should be educating dentists.

Maybe you could send your post to BLT along with the name of your dentist. They should be able to provide scientific background for his paper.

Some dentists might see M18 as competition but I am sure most won't.

I also wonder about the experiments on school children here and in Italy. Seems they were successful and even a small reduction in strep throat >>> rheumatic fever would pay for itself quickly. Cheaper than a full time school nurse anyway.[/QUOTE

Thanks Artemis. I have Brian Watson's email address so I have just sent the message off to him.

[RGR367]

[QUOTE=pierre;713215]I have always been a fastidious brusher of my teeth and have visited my dentist religiously every 6 months, so I was alarmed when late last year he told me that I had severe periodontal (gum) disease, was at risk of losing all my teeth and that I needed to visit a specialist for treatment.
.................

While I am now even more particular about my oral hygiene, immediately following the surgery I also decided I would start taking BLIS Toothguard which contains the M18 probiotic for oral health. I have been a shareholder in BLIS for many years but never before have I used any of its products.

.............
[/QUOTE

A bit sorry for your M18 experience coming a bit late but your "research" on BLT then should have included at least, trying out the product first :)
I tried M18 almost at the same time I got my first bundle of BLT shares though my result was not at spectacular as yours for my teeth/gums have been good ever since. And I can vouch 100% for the K12 efficacy on my throat when I tried it.

disc: holder but my time limit on holding it expires about this year

[pierre]

.............
[/QUOTE

A bit sorry for your M18 experience coming a bit late but your "research" on BLT then should have included at least, trying out the product first :)
I tried M18 almost at the same time I got my first bundle of BLT shares though my result was not at spectacular as yours for my teeth/gums have been good ever since. And I can vouch 100% for the K12 efficacy on my throat when I tried it.

disc: holder but my time limit on holding it expires about this year[/QUOTE]

Trying the product before buying the shares? Well possibly but, I don't like milk so probably shouldn't hold ATM, not ready to retire yet so that excludes RYM, SUM & OCA, don't need accounting software so no XRO etc etc etc.

Never knew I had the problem gums so never thought about M18 as a preventative - but man - am I an advocate now!

Agree the company has been trying our patience for many years - in my case since 2005! I've been tempted to get out of BLT many times but always think the "next big thing" is just around the corner. Maybe there are more corners in the world than I ever imagined and we have just haven't found the right one yet. I'm just short of break-even on my holding so I'll hang on a bit longer I think. May 21st (or thereabouts) might be the catalyst for action though.

[patrick]

Another Directors fee increase?

[winner69]

Another Directors fee increase?

Seems a few directors are exiting soon

Some might say rats deserting the rusty ship ....even though the changes have been dressed as up a rolling refresh program to ensure all the skills needed exist

Love to see the gre Board’s Skills Matrix

[suse]

Seems a few directors are exiting soon

Some might say rats deserting the rusty ship ....even though the changes have been dressed as up a rolling refresh program to ensure all the skills needed exist

Love to see the gre Board’s Skills Matrix

Guessing that it is those exiting directors selling their shares today or at least someone in the know. A sudden flurry of activity so it doesnt bode well for when their annual results come out, which will no doubt be this week. Disappointed yet again.

[winner69]

A game of two halves ....but looking pretty good for the new year

Life in this dog yet

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/BLT/318162/279443.pdf

Accumulated losses now $34m plus

[simla]

Could have been a lot worse.

Revenue: 1st Half 2,072 Full 5,288 = Last half revenue 3,216k

Costs: 1st Half -3,318 Full -6,330 = Last half costs -3,012k

Loss: 1st Half -1,246 Full -1,042 = Last half profit 204k

Last half revenue up 19% on prior year's last half, p3.

The word "borrowings" appears, p5. However p35 explains that this is a 5yr pay down of the purchase of the last manufacturing plant.

The phrase "finished goods" has now got "including prominent co-branding", p6, leaving clearer room for ingredient sales?

Satisfied with "ongoing concern" basis, p26. Working capital sufficient, p26. No mention of a capital raising that I saw.


So better than the first half could have led to, but still not cooking with gas. But they just reported the second profitable half year, as I recall it. That's good.

Is this just a necessary rough patch while the company accommodates to new management? Or is it struggling to turn out profit of any size long term? It will probably be a couple of years before that becomes clearer.


So, neither good nor bad? Need more time to see any trend?

[simla]

Stunned silence?

Well, fair enough. The last couple of years have left shareholders feeling a bit lost as to what is going on - or me anyway, which is why I finally gave up.

But actually this last report seems to suggest the company has set making a profit as their top priority now, with talk of disappointment at the loss, watching costs ("cost containment measures taken in line with the 1HY18 trading revenue performance"), and generally seemingly a recognition that they need to make a profit with the business that they have rather than yearning too greatly for what they want to do next. And there was even information about the individual markets, including reasonably overall indications that revenue should resume.

Of course, that's me reading a lot into a few tea leaves. The company continues its current tradition of talking with bullet points instead of clear lengthy narrative. And yet whenever anyone puts up a slide of bullet points they immediately set about a lengthy explanation of what they mean because bullet points are not clear communication - in my opinion anyway. It would be nice to see the lengthy explanation in the annual report if you ask me. Yes, that can be quite a bit of extra work but actually the shareholders own the company and are paying the wages and salaries and directors' fees and the shareholders should be told what is happening in a company even if that costs money to do. In my opinion, as always.

So, yes, a couple of years of lack of positive excitement for shareholders. But it is just possible that the coming year may actually see a half respectable result. Or not. Who knows!

Just my random thoughts as always.

[suse]

I have to admit to feeling stunned that they managed to go from nearly breaking even last year to 1m deficit this year.

I think the other thing that surprised me is that the majority of their revenue came from 3 main customers. Which explains why when 1 goes sideways it has this massive impact.

But I live in hope, even though I sold off a few shares to put into something that might help address some losses. I still have belief in the products.

It will be interesting to see what their 6 monthly figures will be like later in the year.

[winner69]

A2 struggled like this for years and years (decades) as well

Keep the faith

[suse]

A2 struggled like this for years and years (decades) as well

Keep the faith
if blis becomes the next A2 I will be a very happy punter! :)

[RGR367]

Stunned silence?

Well, fair enough. .............................. Or not. Who knows!

Just my random thoughts as always.

Yeah, not sure what to do now :confused:

[RGR367]

A2 struggled like this for years and years (decades) as well

Keep the faith

Hard to keep the faith when your estimated time for it to take off has not been met really. It's definitely not a XRO or A2.

[simla]

Yeah, not sure what to do now :confused:
Yes, well there are always two questions. 1. What are the prospects for this company? 2. Should I personally be invested in this company?

I personally find it hard to understand what the company are trying to communicate about the future. I just think it would be great if they spent some money getting feedback on their communication from someone who understands the investment world.

So, 1: It is hard for me to see what is likely to happen for this company but that does not mean it will be either good or bad, just unknown for me at least. So that I ended up at 2: I did not personally feel I was "investing" any more so much as guessing and so I sold my shares.

However, question 1 remains. It is possible things will go well eventually, maybe not. I have sold and so will not be part of it going well should it do so. Good move? Bad move? Who knows.

All I was trying to add in the above post was that they sound more focused on winning now, including controlling costs, and celebrating their ingredient sales, and that might be a good thing. Certainly their financials remain nothing to write home about, but on the other hand they did just survive a pretty tight spot so maybe they live to fight a winning battle from here on in? But ... who knows? I've been wishing this company would communicate better for two years now.

[steveb]

well put simla good post I suspect most here would agree with you,I just put my shares in a bottom draw as the value of them negates selling them,you never know someone someday might do something positive.

Did the same with Bond brewing in the 80's got a nice check from Lion Nathan a few years later

[Leftfield]

Yes, well there are always two questions. 1. What are the prospects for this company? 2. Should I personally be invested in this company?.

In my case the answers are;

1.) After the last years results I gave my remaining shares a stern talking to. I see some improvements as BLT edges towards a profit with improved marketing, but I fear BLT no longer the 'world beater' bio tech stock that we hoped it would be.
2.) I rate BLT a low conviction hold, and for me it is completely de-risked, as my remaining shares are 'free hold'. (I have taken out most of my profits as at one stage this was a 3 bagger for me.)

Like Steveb it's bottom drawer stuff and only rates that 'cos I'm rather sentimental and free-hold.

[simla]

but I fear BLT no longer the 'world beater' bio tech stock that we hoped it would be.
I'm guessing they might reply that the switch to a marketing-oriented company is about building up the value of the trademarks and generally constructing the corporate infrastructure to support multiple products over time to leverage those trade marks, as opposed to the prior stage of the firm being about getting K12 out into the market for maximum market penetration. And that therefore there could indeed be an interesting future ahead.

But that is quite simply a guess as I do not recall reading anything they have said that amounts to that statement. I am merely guessing from their actions which seem to me to be consistent with that aim. I could easily be wrong.

[THEONE]

looks like they are trying to sell finished product in international markets..Be a master of ones own destiny..

Unfortunately ingredient sales haven' been as successful as hoped, could easily change though.

I actually think Blis could be profitable now if they really wanted to, but they just invest for future growth. Which I think is appropriate.

The missing ingredient is investing in marketing and distributing internationally. Unfortunatelly they don't have the funds.

Even domestically i think they could do better, you rarely see Blis M18 or the Fresh Breath Kit at pharmacies. No one has ever heard of them.
These products aren't for everyone, but allot of people have bad breath and bad teeth. Inner health often has a promo taking up the whole window.
The adwords for the Blis website has also stopped. I would like to see more of these https://www.insight.co.nz/blis-probiotics-pharmacy-brand-launch/
Looks good...

As mentioned in a previous post about Life space Probiotics Australia (taken over for 600 million) they targeted the Chinese market with a brand ambassador and ecommerce, Daigu..they spcefically targeted the infant market... https://www.acbr.com.au/690m-life-space-deal-adds-healthcare-surge

It is good they are reviewing the Chinese market, they should copy lifespace....Daily Defence Junior and Tooth Guard Junior would do well..
The key is Chinese are more like to buy for the children than them selves. They want the best for their child.

I think they are on the the right track and making progress I just wish it was faster..I would support a capital raise...

[suse]

someone is jumping ship. Only one buyer left at 1c.
Could this stock depress me any more!

[Nigel]

I departed the scene a little while ago (focussing on the ASX), so I haven’t been on Sharetrader for at least six months.

I dropped in yesterday and had a read through some recent BLT posts. I was mortified to see Simla has sold out of BLT! Despite me still liking the science behind the product, the fact that Simla has pulled out raises some serious concerns. He was always the staunchest of Blis supporters. Thanks Simla for your considerable efforts in researching the stock over the years - your insights were always very much appreciated.

As for BLT, I’m hoping it can still be successful (I love Kiwi success stories) but I can’t help but notice the cycle of ‘almost’ reaching profitability then not quite getting there. It seems to have been the same story for years! Good luck to those still holding on.

[Leftfield]

Crikey! Some progress to report.

"Blis Technologies launch of products on US Amazon platform
Blis Technologies have entered the US market with a range of branded oral
probiotics under the Blis Probiotics brand. The range is available on
Amazon.com (http://amazon.com/).

Blis CEO Brian Watson says that as part of the company's finished goods
strategy, Blis is aiming to enter new markets during the 2019 financial year.
"The USA is the largest market for probiotics globally and having BLIS
finished products available on Amazon is an important step in the next phase
of our growth strategy."

The launched range is based on products already established in the NZ market
but not yet available in the US including TravelProtectTM, FreshBreath KitTM
and HoneyBlisTM."

[Sideshow Bob]

This will be interesting to see if they make any real progress.....as depends how they listed them.

It is pretty difficult to navigate Amazon listing on your own, and there are companies that organize the listing and logistics - at a price.

That price can be pretty hefty - especially with small volumes. Presumably Blis have some sort of regulatory approval for the US - otherwise that would have ramped up the listing cost further.

Still, hopefully further exposure and will be interesting to watch the sales rankings and feedback. All incremental sales growth......

[Sgt Pepper]

I departed the scene a little while ago (focussing on the ASX), so I haven’t been on Sharetrader for at least six months.

I dropped in yesterday and had a read through some recent BLT posts. I was mortified to see Simla has sold out of BLT! Despite me still liking the science behind the product, the fact that Simla has pulled out raises some serious concerns. He was always the staunchest of Blis supporters. Thanks Simla for your considerable efforts in researching the stock over the years - your insights were always very much appreciated.

As for BLT, I’m hoping it can still be successful (I love Kiwi success stories) but I can’t help but notice the cycle of ‘almost’ reaching profitability then not quite getting there. It seems to have been the same story for years! Good luck to those still holding on.

I went to our local pharamacy last week to collect a prescription my GP had faxed through. As a former BLT shareholder ( sold out at 5c ) I noted the entire window display was taken up by Buccline Berna, a similar but inferior product, It is SUCH A SHAME that a company with so much potential, backed by robust science, does not have the marketing budget to gain traction as we approach the age of peak antiboitic therapy.

[GR8DAY]

Just did a "Blis" search on Amazon.........already quite a few Oral Probiotic products listed. The good thing is of course they all contain our ingredient K12 & M18 so exposure already there. How having finished product on Amazon will affect profitability will remain to be seen.........but every bit of exposure has to help. I still remain a believer in the science and even just today there was a gut bacteria guru talking (on Channel 3) highlighting the importance of good bacteria and ways of encouraging that by various means.......probiotics naturally been top of the list. The same applies to the oral cavity. (mouth, teeth, throat, gums) Some interesting endorsements attached to some of these Oral Probiotics on Amazon, mainly around halitosis (bad breath).........see below:

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mouth teeth taking gums taste dentist morning noticed difference brushing minty flavor improvement continue bottle mint gum results daily fresh
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Amazon Customer
5.0 out of 5 stars
July 30, 2016
Verified Purchase
I was thinking about killing myself for quite sometime. Do you know what it's like to gag on your own foul taste in your mouth? To see every person you ever talk to, pinch their nose with disgust? To have even your own dog keep a distance from your foul stench? I do, and nearly had enough... $20,000 at the dentist, and $10,000 at the gastroenterologist, $2000 at the ENT guy and no one is able to help.... our society is plagued with antibiotics when your product makes it clear that pro biotic is the way... two day of your product and the foul stench has subsided and the foul taste is eliminated... You guys MUST educate the dentists of the world-if they would have gave me one of these little magical pills 5 years ago, it would have spared me much mental stress, anxiety, and near suicidal incidents... you guys are truly healers - and I for one have been blessed to have ever stumbled upon your product... thank you truly
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Ella MarksTop Contributor: Makeup
5.0 out of 5 starsEliminates tonsil issues
March 15, 2017
Verified Purchase
I've tried a few different oral probiotics and have had the best results with this brand. As an adult who never had their tonsils removed, I constantly suffered from sore throats, tonsil stones, and other throat issues. After doing some research, I read about probiotics as a possible solution and decided to give it a try. It's been almost a year now, and I'm very happy with the results. No more sore throats and tonsil stones have nearly been eliminated.
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Kimberly
5.0 out of 5 stars20 year of bad, bad
November 29, 2017
Verified Purchase
20 year of bad, bad, can smell my breath from across the room problem gone! Nothing else totally eliminated my problem until i tried this! Had tried EVERYTHING and EVERY PRODUCT out on the market. More dentists should know about and recommend this product. Of course you still must brush teeth and tongue everyday, and floss. Give it at least 3 weeks of taking 2 per day faithfully to really eliminate bad breath. I will never be without this great product! It has literally changed my life. I can talk to people face to face without them cringing, and rubbing their noses from my bad breath. Worth every penny! At first I was skeptical about buying it, figuring that I am going to waste money once again on something that didn't work. I hit the jackpot finally!
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[suse]

I think Blis should try getting their products into Iherb as well. Lets hope the amazon platform brings a lot more revenue and an actual profit next FY. Still a believer. Just.

[Leftfield]

I think Blis should try getting their products into Iherb as well. Lets hope the amazon platform brings a lot more revenue and an actual profit next FY. Still a believer. Just.

It is good to see the transition from 'ingredient sales' to 'own brand/product sales', while the development of more distribution channels is also welcomed. Progress in channels targeting the Asian market would be good to see alongside the Amazon move.

Disc; Currently 'free holding' a reasonable sized parcel in my bottom draw, holding for the long term.

[jimbo]

It is good to see the transition from 'ingredient sales' to 'own brand/product sales', while the development of more distribution channels is also welcomed. Progress in channels targeting the Asian market would be good to see alongside the Amazon move.



I purchased (on Amazon) an oral probiotic that contained BLIS ingredients back in 2015 when I was living in the US - so I think you're right that it's a good transition to own-brand sales. They've been selling the ingredients into products in the US market for years and it clearly hasn't been enough

[simla]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320069

3 Election of Mr Barry Richardson as a director (Resolution 2)
To consider, and if thought fit, to elect Mr Barry Richardson as a director of the Company by passing the following Ordinary Resolution:
“That Mr Barry Richardson be elected as a director of the Company.”

Blis watching just got interesting, yet again.

[simla]

The announcement is even more interesting because it included the statement:

"3.2 The Board does not believe that the appointment of Mr Richardson will sufficiently add to the Board’s capability and does not support the election of Mr Richardson. " https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320069

Some people might find it remarkable that the Board does not feel that the previous CEO of 9 years has anything much to contribute to the company.

Well, there is no explanation given of why that would be the case. It does not very obviously seem to be based on the financials though:


Annual Revenues during Barry's last few years as manager:

2013 1.16m

2014 1.32m

2015 2.63m

2016 5.66m


That transition from Barry to the current management was during 2016. The current management revenues since then have been:

2016 5.66m

2017 6.54m

2018 5.28m


ps. Obviously I checked these figures but everyone on this site is endlessly reminded to do their own research of course. I no longer hold shares in this company, and so will not be part of this vote.

[simla]

To state the obvious: Having given 9 years of his life to the company, it is remarkably generous that he is offering more. Well, that's my opinion anyway.

[bullfrog]

To state the obvious: Having given 9 years of his life to the company, it is remarkably generous that he is offering more. Well, that's my opinion anyway.
Seems passionate and knowledgeable, it’ll certainly stir things up. He appears to have an agenda that may be making directors nervous, ex CEO sometimes do not make good team players. To make a decision sh need a little more information as to the directors concerns.

[kiwidollabill]

Did you read Barrys submission at the bottom of the release. Seems very self serving considering his tenure to now. It's quite likely that the new strategic focus of the company means his skill set is not required, and the way he is looking to conduct himself will only cause issues. Sometimes you just need to let go....

[THEONE]

Barrys got my vote...He is passionate about the company with vast knowledge and experience.

I assume he has a truck load of shares, so has a vested interested to make sure they do well.

I actually think it is a bit disrepectful of the board. Barry built the company which they are now working for. But they would rather have an ex ceo of a port. With I assume no shares..

Ultimately Barrys agenda will be for Blis to be successful and the share price to increase.

Surely some one would be interested to takeover Blis at current share price...?

SIMLA are you keen to buy back in ?

[simla]

the new strategic focus of the company
You may have summed up the question at hand there. Do shareholders want to vote on that?

On the one hand we have Barry's statement :

'I have remained apart from this Company for over two years now, allowing the new management team to establish their own strategy. I am firmly committed to Blis Technologies and to its products, but like many other shareholders, I am deeply concerned about the current circumstances and the lack of commercial traction, when earlier the Company was on the verge of being a profitable operation."

And on the other hand the company's statement:

"The Board does not believe that the appointment of Mr Richardson will sufficiently add to the Board’s capability and does not support the election of Mr Richardson. "

Shareholders might find it useful to decide whether in fact they do or do not believe there is a new strategy in operation, or merely new management. I personally believe there is, given the change in financials and the frequent use of the words "finished product", but I do not recall seeing the actual phrase "new strategy" in any announcement from the company, so that would really appear to be a genuine question for shareholders to each answer. Ideas anyone?

And then do shareholders wish to have a chance to vote on their endorsement of what is now happening after a couple of years experience of it, be it new strategy or new management or both?

It certainly is a remarkable situation should shareholders wish for that vote. By publicly choosing to oppose Barry, and what he is saying by implication surely, the company appears to be openly inviting shareholders to back them or to not back them in their vote. I really cannot see how else to interpret the company openly opposing this. Suggestions welcome though.

And then, if shareholders do want to vote on that, how do they feel about what Barry lists: "the current share price, the limited working capital available, high overhead costs, the fluctuating sales in many regions, in marked contrast to the European sector. Of concern also is the long-term potential impact on the company after the expiry of the Blis K12 patent in 2 years"?

And then finally shareholders would need to decide whether the Board is correct that Barry does not "add to the Board's capability" or do they think his input would be valuable?

To add the obvious, I sold out last year with much disappointment to me personally, after already reaching my own opinion on this sort of issue. It does not make me right however, and shareholders would now appear to have a unique opportunity to vote on their thoughts.

[simla]

SIMLA are you keen to buy back in ?
You might assume that I took a considerable emotional hit in deciding to sell out of Blis. I do not have the fortitude to risk going through that again.

[simla]

This situation is interesting too if we consider the maths of the voting.

The 2018 report tells us on p40 that the Board members themselves directly control about 68m shares, or about 6% of the 1107m share on issue. So they they have little direct control on the outcome of a vote in choosing to openly oppose this nomination. https://blis.co.nz/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Annual-Report-2018.pdf

The last two directors were elected last year with votes of 406m and 379m out of 1107m shares, or 37% and 34% respectively. That means that over 60% of the shares were not voted (since hardly anyone voted against or abstained). https://blis.co.nz/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/28072017-Blis-AGM-Results-v2.pdf

Remarkably too, the top 20 shareholders have 56% of the votes (p40 2018 report above) so that the director votes of last year barely covered half the top twenty voting potential.

The company's opposition certainly suggests there will be "no" votes, against the appointment. But all up, it would appear that the shareholders genuinely have an opportunity to control the outcome of this vote if they choose to use that opportunity.

[simla]

I note that the proxy form says : http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/BLT/320069/281901.pdf

"As a shareholder you may attend the meeting and vote, or you may appoint a proxy to attend the meeting. A proxy need not be a
shareholder of the Company. The chairman or any other Director of the Company is willing to act as a proxy. If a shareholder
wishes to appoint the chairman or any other Director as proxy, they will vote in favour of all of the other resolutions put to the
meeting unless otherwise directed. To do so, please write their name or position clearly in the space marked (eg, "Chair of the
meeting").
If you are joint holders of shares each of you must sign this proxy form and the appointment made in this section is made on behalf
of each joint holder. If you are a company this proxy form must be signed on behalf of that company by a person acting under the
company’s express or implied authority.
For this proxy form to be valid you must complete it and send it to the Company at the above address so as to ensure that it is
received not less than 48 hours before the start of the meeting, being 11:00am on Wednesday 25 July 2018. If it has been signed
under a power of attorney please send a copy of the power of attorney (unless already deposited with the Company) and a signed
certificate of non-revocation of the power of attorney with this proxy form.
If you return this form without directing the proxy how to vote on any particular matter, the proxy will vote as he or she thinks fit."

"Please return completed proxy form to: Blis Technologies Limited, 81 Glasgow St, South Dunedin, PO Box 2208, South Dunedin 9044 (Attn: Pamela Bedford) or by email to pamela.bedford@blis.co.nz no later than 11:00am on Wednesday 25 July 2018."

This seems clear enough. On the other hand, the announcement said: http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/BLT/320069/281900.pdf

"For the appointment of a proxy to be valid, the form must be lodged at Blis Technologies Limited, 81 Glasgow Street, South Dunedin, PO Box 2208, South Dunedin 9044 (Attn: Pamela Bedford) or sent by email to pamela.bedford@blis.co.nz no later than 48 hours before the start of the meeting (that is, by 11:00am on Wednesday 25 July 2018). Postal voting is not permitted. "

This seemed less clear to me. You can or cannot post the proxy form after filling it in? Or you have to scan it and email it?

[pierre]

"For the appointment of a proxy to be valid, the form must be lodged at Blis Technologies Limited, 81 Glasgow Street, South Dunedin, PO Box 2208, South Dunedin 9044 (Attn: Pamela Bedford) or sent by email to pamela.bedford@blis.co.nz no later than 48 hours before the start of the meeting (that is, by 11:00am on Wednesday 25 July 2018). Postal voting is not permitted. "

This seemed less clear to me. You can or cannot post the proxy form after filling it in? Or you have to scan it and email it?

Simla, I think it means that you can vote by either attending the meeting.or appointing a proxy. You cannot simply send a postal vote.
The bigger question is - should shareholders support the election of Barry Richardson to the Board?

The results of the past two years have been particularly disappointing. Still no profit , though the directors have had their hands out for higher fees. I had high expectations of the new CEO but all that has happened is more higher paid staff (the Fonterra effect) and nothing for shareholders.
What has happened about the China market opportunities - there has been a deathly silence for the past 2 years.
Marketing is still an issue and the new boss was supposed to be a marketing man.

I emailed Brian Watson about my personal highly successful results (endorsed by my periodontist) after using BLIS Toothguard following oral surgery and never had the courtesy of a reply.

That's not the only reason of course, but I will be voting for Barry as a director to return his strong institutional knowledge to the company in the hope and expectation that we might finally get the business into profit.
I doubt he can do any worse than the current lot and expect him to do much better.

[winner69]

If the current Board don’t want this Barry guy it’ll be a mess if he’s elected ...won’t it?

Sounds like you guys want some of the current board to go anyway

One holy mess coming up whatever

[Leftfield]

If the current Board don’t want this Barry guy it’ll be a mess if he’s elected ...won’t it?
Sounds like you guys want some of the current board to go anyway
One holy mess coming up whatever

Share price has fallen due to this uncertainty. It will be interesting to learn what Richardson is offering;

1.) Has Richardson passed his 'use-by date' and should new young management be allowed more time to succeed?
2.) What is Richardson's alternative strategy?

This infighting is not a good sign for holders, and clearly we need more info' if our vote is to add value to the company.

(Disc - small 'free' holding for sentimental, rather than logical reasons)

[simla]

One holy mess coming up whatever
Not necessarily. It is as old as history for human beings to cut themselves off from differing points of view. And yet often enough happy compromises are possible once the two sides get a chance to discuss their respective points of view. It's the old saying, two heads are better than one.

[THEONE]

As per the nzx

This enables me to support, and when required, to challenge the Board and management on the strategic direction and therefore help to guide the Company to a successful strategy.

It shouldn't be a mess, the key words support and guide...

It is one voice against many on the board, so all Barry can do is help..

I think one of the main things depressing the share price is the lack of capital and the likelyhood of a capital raising.

This needs to be sorted. Barry raised funds before when they were in a very dire situation..

He also got the majority of the existing customers..

I cant really find any new customers in last 2 years?

Under new leadership share price went from around 5 cents to 1.3 cents..

Interesting times...

[bullfrog]

I think the communication from Blis over the last 2 years is abysmal. It’s all about putting yourself out there, building the brand with shareholders to inspire confidence, and with customers for sales. It’s just not happening atm. If the current regime doesn’t want Barry, tell us why, and what their strategy is to grow the company. The silence is killing me. Give us a reason to vote for the status quo.

[suse]

I think the communication from Blis over the last 2 years is abysmal. It’s all about putting yourself out there, building the brand with shareholders to inspire confidence, and with customers for sales. It’s just not happening atm. If the current regime doesn’t want Barry, tell us why, and what their strategy is to grow the company. The silence is killing me. Give us a reason to vote for the status quo.

Amen to that. Maybe I will go to Dunedin for my birthday this year and attend the AGM! We were sooooooo close to achieving break even and then what. The share price keeps going lower, and the excuses keep coming. I'm guessing Barry still has millions of shares that he wants to make some money from hence he wants back in. I've already sold down half my shares at a loss, not so keen to take the hit on the rest as I am still a believer in the product.

[GR8DAY]

Amen to that. Maybe I will go to Dunedin for my birthday this year and attend the AGM! We were sooooooo close to achieving break even and then what. The share price keeps going lower, and the excuses keep coming. I'm guessing Barry still has millions of shares that he wants to make some money from hence he wants back in. I've already sold down half my shares at a loss, not so keen to take the hit on the rest as I am still a believer in the product.

Hope you do SUSE..........anyone else planning on going?? I would myself but Im way up north. This languishing Share Price has gone on for too long now........only positive is the opportunity to keep topping up while we wait for some clear direction as to what the future holds.....I certainly wouldnt be selling at these levels. Until that happens though it's all a bit of a punt. I say "Bring Back Barry".

[winner69]

Barry might have a decent stake(?) but his track record is pretty abysmal while in charge

Why go back to that

His ‘institutional knowledge’ is about as valuable as the share price ...not much

[simla]

Well, Winner. This is my answer to that question. But each shareholder will have their own opinions. This is merely recounting the journey I was on and I do not claim that others see it the same way.

August 2015, Barry's resignation announced. I do not recall Barry's name appearing at the bottom of any company communications after that. (share price: 2.7c)


I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be going if he wasn't confident things were looking pretty good now. His dedication to duty has surely been more than exemplary.

Barry has done a fantastic job, in my opinion. The company was somewhat lost when he arrived, but now has multiple international markets, considerable global brand awareness, excellent scientific prowess, and is probably now on a sustainable basis for cash as well, and quite a diverse income base to work with now, has multiple business partners who seem keen, there seems to be a solid staff now, and the company is hopefully about to look at profit.

It is sad that he didn't get the boom times as a reward while in office, but it seems pretty likely he will see those soon enough from the sidelines anyway. Multiple setbacks around 2011/2012 were not the company's fault, but cost the company maybe 3 years in recovery mode, and I was always keenly aware that that would impact on the working life of all staff at Blis. Three years is quite an extra cost in anyone's working life. Indeed, in my own investing life too!

Nine years is a long time to stay in a job, and we are very lucky he did. I have no difficulty at all expressing considerable gratitude for his time in office and admiration for what he has achieved. He has done NZ a huge favour in bringing this company to fruition. He has done so very quietly compared to other CEOs in NZ, but his achievements seem considerable to me.

Wow.

February 2016, already I am starting to feel a bit lost but not worried about it yet: (Share price 2.6c)


A welcome update confirming an excellent revenue year.

"Blis Technologies Limited affirms expectations for revenue for the full year to increase by over 100% to in excess of $5.3 million but rather than a small surplus, a small deficit is now anticipated in earnings before interest expense tax depreciation and amortisation. Although the provision for the replacement of stock into Europe proved sufficient, the company incurred greater than budgeted operating expenses." https://www.nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/278476

So, here's where it gets interesting maybe? No declared profit this year, but they already updated on that. But if growth continues as it has for the last few years, then the next year's result could be pretty cheerful.

But we can't project solid growth just because of past growth. So none the wiser!

Failing any other news, we have the half year report in May, the AGM maybe a couple of months later, and then the November report. Or maybe they will be making interesting product announcements sometime too?

An interesting year coming up for Blis-watching by the looks.

April 2016, "The company expects to achieve trading revenues in excess of $8m for the 2017 financial year and record a net profit after tax." (3.3c) https://www.nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/280869

May 2016, 2016 Annual report. "There were also ongoing increased costs required to meet the Company’s growth targets as noted under challenges above and in ensuring that the Company is resourced to meet its strategic objectives. This has involved outsourcing of specialised personnel capabilities until these resources can be internalised, including appointments for Quality Control Manager, Chief Financial Officer, and Brand and Marketing Manager." (3.1c)

July 2016

So my constant caution is now from a shareholder point of view. I'd be very surprised if the company itself hit the rocks from here on in. But we shareholders are not the company. We also have our own interests to look to. For that, we need all the news we can get. Such is always the lot of shareholders. This entire site is about people scouring the news for more meaning about every company.

So maybe that explains the divergence between some of us on the topic of caution? I agree with you that things are looking up for the company. But I am more cautious about whether we shareholders are going to enjoy the ride in the shorter term future. The more news the better. For me, anyway. Which is why I am constantly harping on about news presently.
July 2016 "Blis Technologies Limited announces an updated guidance that the company expects to achieve FY2017 trading revenues in excess of $8 million and Net Profit Before Tax in excess of $0.7 million.". (share price 5.9c shortly thereafter) https://www.nzx.com/announcements/286392

January 2017 (5c)

" I can't see any way of forming any clear opinion on the outlook from current news and have changed my own position from "optimistic" to "simply don't know". The company said it was "upbeat" last year https://www.nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/282826"

May 2017 "It is important to note that management and the board have undertaken a review of within market demand internationally. This review is providing us with confidence that there remains strong evidence of continued growth." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/301839

May 2017, I am already not confident and say that I have sold down some BLT.

Yes, I sold enough to show a small (tiny!) cash profit so that I could stop being so concerned about the future outcome.
July 2017 (3.5c)

Simla - so it really is divorce time?

Don't know. But the conviction in my heart is cooling. Perhaps they will announce some great news in a bit and the romance will be back on. But the company is dancing to a very different beat now, and it just isn't the sort of company now that I would have invested in from scratch. I just don't know. I know I'm cooling though. I only invest when I get where the management is going, and personally I don't seem to get where the new management is going. Just my own view, as always.
October 2017 (3.3c through all of August before this announcement, which was followed by sales in the market of about 3% of the company in just a few days - which did not improve the shareprice!)

Hmm ....revenues down 46% for first half

But be ok for full year they say ..but not much improvement over prior year

All honky dory ...no worries"
October 2017, I cease being a shareholder after maybe 18 months of posting about my doubts.(2.2c)

In my case, as I've said before, I just don't understand what plan the new management are following. I dare say there is one, but I just don't seem to be able to hear it. No point in investing in something you don't understand.
May 2018, 2018 Annual report "Trading revenue for the full year decreased by 19% ($1,251k) compared with the previous financial year " (1.7c)


And now July 2018 (1.3c)

Barry might have a decent stake(?) but his track record is pretty abysmal while in charge

Why go back to that

His ‘institutional knowledge’ is about as valuable as the share price ...not much
So, I cannot tell you what others would say to that question, and neither am I now a shareholder with a vote on this resolution. But that's where I've come from anyway.

Obviously I feel the company would be stronger with Barry on the board than without.

[Flugenbear]

I agree 100% Simla.
It seemed to be working before....
It certainly ain't now.

[CD_CHCH]

I have a very small holding - purchased them as I have used the product and found it to be extremely effective - everyone I have recommended the product to has reported the same results - it really works. At this stage I am well and truly underwater with my investment (more than 50% down) and intend to vote for Barry as my feeling is the current management has lost its way - plenty of talk about growth and opportunity but no credible results to back up the talk.

[simla]

I have a very small holding ... and intend to vote
I think this is an opportunity for smaller shareholders to stand up and be counted one way or the other. It will be interesting to see how many bother to do it.

[winner69]

I agree 100% Simla.
It seemed to be working before....
It certainly ain't now.

Seemed to working before ........That Barry guy presided over $12m worth of losses in his tenure

Certainly ain’t now ........since he left retained losses have only gone up $1.3m


I see Boyd is still on the Board .....wasn’t that impressed with him when I worked with him years ago and he couldn’t got any better. Wonder how old he is now?

[simla]

since he left retained losses have only gone up $1.3m

I guess that might depend on whether you think the company might have made a few million since then too, which obviously hasn't happened. That would be a question for each shareholder to decide for themselves. Management changed over during 2016 recall.



(000s)201320142015201620172018


Total Expenses295928634004647765716330


Employee Benefits6978781203167120242251


Source: Annual reports. Obviously I have checked but I'm only human. Do your own research as always.

[winner69]

I guess that might depend on whether you think the company might have made a few million since then too, which obviously hasn't happened. That would be a question for each shareholder to decide for themselves. Management changed over during 2016 recall.



(000s)201320142015201620172018


Total Expenses295928634004647765716330


Employee Benefits6978781203167120242251


Source: Annual reports. Obviously I have checked but I'm only human. Do your own research as always.

Seems a good place to work ...esp if senior management?

Spose strategy is to keep the gravy train going as long as they can

[simla]

You made me curious. On further examination of the annual reports:



201320142015201620172018


Employees over $100k?22276


Cost est from pay bands?380k380k440k1140k920k


Reported key personnel cost?389k480k1082k1216k1228k



I'm not sure about the odd figures in 2016. Both figures are from the report, but the key personnel costs does include the word contractors so maybe? The report did say "This has involved outsourcing of specialised personnel capabilities until these resources can be internalised, including appointments for Quality Control Manager, Chief Financial Officer, and Brand and Marketing Manager."


Source : Annual Reports. Again, I checked carefully but do your own research.

[winner69]

You made me curious. On further examination of the annual reports:



201320142015201620172018


Employees over $100k?22276


Cost from pay bands (est)?380k380k440k1140k920k



Source : Annual Reports. Again, I checked carefully but do your own research.

That’s quite revealing eh

[Baa_Baa]

Savings on expenses, flat to down, correlate to consistently rising 'employee benefits' in TOTO, and as a % of expenses. Might need to dig a little deeper and find out what the incentive plan is, it could be the clue to why shareholders aren't realising the full benefits of flat/declining expenses. Would help to have posted the top line as well and profits and shareholder returns, for a balanced view. Otherwise it looks a bit lopsided leaning towards gouging self centred employee largess.

[simla]

Or you could have posted them yourself.



(000s)201320142015201620172018



Revenue116113222631566165475288


Total Expenses295928634004647765716330



Loss-1856-1541]-1373-816-24-1042


Net cash flow (ex finance)-1110-1324-1516-919-71-358


Employees over $100k?22276


Cost est from pay bands?3803804401140920


Reported key personnel cost?389480108212161228



Working capital909* 37532519192722531548* Included share issue



Source: Annual reports. I have checked the figures carefully, but check them yourself if relying on them.

I merely posted the extra detail on costs as Winner suggested that the losses had improved, to which I replied that there might be other ways of looking at it too.

I am certainly not trying to present atypical information, as the above information shows I would have said. I am merely posting readily available public information for an informed debate seeing as the company has called on shareholders to back them without putting up any actual information to explain why (that I have seen.) Debate without information always annoys me and I have spend years here posting quite clear and sourced information solely for the purpose of informed debate. People can certainly respond however they like and I have never ever objected to anyone putting a counter view and have always made clear that what I post is merely the argument as I see it, and do not claim to be right.

The only argument I have proposed in this debate is that I believe the company would be stronger with Barry on the Board than without. That is the proposal on the voting form, and it seems reasonable to consider financials for the company from periods with Barry and without Barry to help inform that debate. The changeover was during 2016.

[GR8DAY]

Thanks for your continued efforts on this SIMLA.... hope you remain on board in some form or other. Your postings must take considerable time and effort.... greatly appreciated from this shareholder for one.

[simla]

Thanks, Gr8day. Yes, it takes time. But I continue to care about the fate of this company, and the shareholders, even though I sold my own shares with massive frustration because my need for rigorous logic no longer matched the level of information I was able to perceive with BLT over an extended period.

That's why I think it a great idea to vote Barry on. His annual reports always dripped with vigorous thought and logic and data and I think that is a great asset for any company and for Blis. I cannot possibly agree with the assertion of the company that Barry does not "add to the Board’s capability" when we have already seen what he gave and what the company in my opinion needs more of: rigorous in-depth analysis of every move. The company is hardly in a strong position as the financials show. Careful and deliberate thought are about the strongest asset a company can have in a situation like that. It is extraordinary to me that Barry is contributing his capacity on that front at little cost and yet they are not interested they tell us.

[winner69]

Didn’t the directors get a decent pay rise as well

[simla]

Guess what folks, I'm a shareholder again. ;)

A very small holding that certainly won't change the vote, but I wanted the pleasure of voting for Barry to be appointed as I strongly believe that will strengthen the company and I remain interested in the fate of this company.

No idea what I'll do with it afterwards. Keep, sell? Who knows. It's not big. Proof that small shareholders should vote anyway.

[GR8DAY]

Welcome home SIMLA!! (your 250,000 trade this morning?)

[suse]

yay, Simla back in the house! One thing is for sure you have absolutely convinced me I need to make my vote count. I wont be going to Dunedin unfortunately. Was it Pierre who went a couple of years ago and pressed them on info? Wonder if he is going again.

[RGR367]

Guess what folks, I'm a shareholder again. ;)

A very small holding that certainly won't change the vote, but I wanted the pleasure of voting for Barry to be appointed as I strongly believe that will strengthen the company and I remain interested in the fate of this company.

No idea what I'll do with it afterwards. Keep, sell? Who knows. It's not big. Proof that small shareholders should vote anyway.

We're all pleased to welcome you back on board Simla :t_up: You and Pierre are actually leading the voice on this thread/stock.

[pierre]

Was it Pierre who went a couple of years ago and pressed them on info? Wonder if he is going again.

Oui, c'etait moi. Would love to go again this year but not sure if I can get away to attend. Will see how things go over the next few days.
The last two years under the new CEO have been particularly disappointing as the momentum he inherited has slowed to a crawl. And as Simla has commented all that seems to have happened is that more high cost staff have been appointed but with little apparent effect.

Great to have you back in the fold again Simla. I always enjoy your well-researched analysis - there's no need to be apologetic about it either.
I urge all shareholders to vote in the forthcoming.election of directors - and to give serious consideration to voting for Barry Richardson. Even if Barry does not gain a seat at the board
table, there's no harm in sending a message to the directors and management that we are not happy with the company's performance.

[simla]

July 2018 (today) "Guidance for the full financial year ending 31 March 2019 is for revenue in excess of $7.0 m, an EBITDA in excess of $0.6 m and a small profit emphasising the steady business growth we have experienced over the last four years." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320595

July 2016 "Blis Technologies Limited announces an updated guidance that the company expects to achieve FY2017 trading revenues in excess of $8 million and Net Profit Before Tax in excess of $0.7 million." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/286392

I cannot think of any useful comment on that. Good that they updated on the June quarter anyway.

[Balance]

July 2018 (today) "Guidance for the full financial year ending 31 March 2019 is for revenue in excess of $7.0 m, an EBITDA in excess of $0.6 m and a small profit emphasising the steady business growth we have experienced over the last four years." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320595

July 2016 "Blis Technologies Limited announces an updated guidance that the company expects to achieve FY2017 trading revenues in excess of $8 million and Net Profit Before Tax in excess of $0.7 million." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/286392

I cannot think of any useful comment on that. Good that they updated on the June quarter anyway.

So 2 years later, nothing has changed - just some of the shareholders I guess have changed?

[winner69]

July 2018 (today) "Guidance for the full financial year ending 31 March 2019 is for revenue in excess of $7.0 m, an EBITDA in excess of $0.6 m and a small profit emphasising the steady business growth we have experienced over the last four years." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320595

July 2016 "Blis Technologies Limited announces an updated guidance that the company expects to achieve FY2017 trading revenues in excess of $8 million and Net Profit Before Tax in excess of $0.7 million." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/286392

I cannot think of any useful comment on that. Good that they updated on the June quarter anyway.


Those announcements are so amazing (even though one is a (optimistic) guess for a year out

[Balance]

Those announcements are so amazing (even though one is a (optimistic) guess for a year out

Reminds one of PEB?

Or is it the other way round since Bliss has been around a lot longer - same crap touted out year after year but as long as a few newbies get sucked in, the management continues to get paid!

[simla]

I feel a bit sad reading that actually. Further, there was "an EBITDA loss of $92 k" for Q1 on revenue of "$1.64m" which might annualise at 4 times 1.64 = $6.56m. And the "ITDA" of EBITDA was several hundred $k in the last report.

[simla]

Ah well, at least I got to vote to appoint Barry to the Board, despite "The Board does not believe that the appointment of Mr Richardson will sufficiently add to the Board’s capability and does not support the election of Mr Richardson." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320069

[simla]

Or you could have posted them yourself.



(000s)201320142015201620172018



Revenue116113222631566165475288


Total Expenses295928634004647765716330



Loss-1856-1541]-1373-816-24-1042


Net cash flow (ex finance)-1110-1324-1516-919-71-358


Employees over $100k?22276


Cost est from pay bands?3803804401140920


Reported key personnel cost?389480108212161228



Working capital909* 37532519192722531548* Included share issue



Source: Annual reports. I have checked the figures carefully, but check them yourself if relying on them.

I merely posted the extra detail on costs as Winner suggested that the losses had improved, to which I replied that there might be other ways of looking at it too.

I am certainly not trying to present atypical information, as the above information shows I would have said. I am merely posting readily available public information for an informed debate seeing as the company has called on shareholders to back them without putting up any actual information to explain why (that I have seen.) Debate without information always annoys me and I have spend years here posting quite clear and sourced information solely for the purpose of informed debate. People can certainly respond however they like and I have never ever objected to anyone putting a counter view and have always made clear that what I post is merely the argument as I see it, and do not claim to be right.

The only argument I have proposed in this debate is that I believe the company would be stronger with Barry on the Board than without. That is the proposal on the voting form, and it seems reasonable to consider financials for the company from periods with Barry and without Barry to help inform that debate. The changeover was during 2016.

If they reach the $7m revenue then revenue will be a massive six times what it was in 2013. It is the costs. I got pinged for focussing on the costs since the new management. But if the costs had stuck nearer 4m then that would be a very nice profit.

[simla]

If revenue reaches $7m for 2019 then that would be compounding annual growth of 3.5% pa since 2017 (6.547m), or 2 years. Or 7.5% pa compounding since 2016 (5.661), or 3 years.

[GR8DAY]

Surely they (the directors) can see how close they are to turning a reasonable profit? It aint rocket science...just simple maths. Revenue improving (good) now cut those costs (salaries?) and we will be shareholders in a profitable company.......accordingly we will see an improving Share Price.

[Benny1]

A little of a newby question... If Barry does get voted on to the board is this at the expense of any existing board member or will he just be added to the existing board ?

[simla]

No, there are two vacancies and the company only put up one candidate.

"In addition to Mr Plunket’s appointment, BLIS will be looking for another board member to replace Dr Peter Fennessy who has also indicated he will not be standing for re-election this year. Dr Fennessy has been a director since 2000 and was Chairman for 11 years (retiring as Chair in July 2017)." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/317597

Or that's my reading of in anyway.

[suse]

July 2018 (today) "Guidance for the full financial year ending 31 March 2019 is for revenue in excess of $7.0 m, an EBITDA in excess of $0.6 m and a small profit emphasising the steady business growth we have experienced over the last four years." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320595

July 2016 "Blis Technologies Limited announces an updated guidance that the company expects to achieve FY2017 trading revenues in excess of $8 million and Net Profit Before Tax in excess of $0.7 million." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/286392

I cannot think of any useful comment on that. Good that they updated on the June quarter anyway.

that's sobering reading. Share price may be up but no doubt it will just be a temporary thing again. sigh

[Benny1]

No, there are two vacancies and the company only put up one candidate.

"In addition to Mr Plunket’s appointment, BLIS will be looking for another board member to replace Dr Peter Fennessy who has also indicated he will not be standing for re-election this year. Dr Fennessy has been a director since 2000 and was Chairman for 11 years (retiring as Chair in July 2017)." https://www.nzx.com/announcements/317597

Or that's my reading of in anyway.

Thanks for that Simla 😀

[bull....]

The company will have the benefit of lower Forex headwind at the moment , should benefit accounts

[Leftfield]

Have taken todays hiatus to quit my remaining 'freeholding'. BLT did well for me, but I'm pruning my portfolio and increasing cash reserves for the second half of 2018.

[Sideshow Bob]

I have a guaranteed way to improve the share price.....

1 for 10 share consolidation! Or 1 for 20! :eek2:

Like seriously, does there need to be 1.1 billion shares on offer.

[simla]

Sorry to hear you've stopped too, Left Field. We can only hope that the shareholders can be bothered to vote Barry on as it would appear that the company sees no need to change tack in any way. Baffling in light of the financials, to me anyway. Q1 revenue at an annualised rate of 6.56m and yet still a loss, even at EBITDA, again.

[pierre]

The following is my take on the BLT AGM last Friday. Hope you find it interesting and reassuring.
The AGM was attended by about 50 shareholders.

At the start of the meeting a vote of thanks to Barry Richardson, (who attended the meeting in the audience) for his stewardship of the company and in particular for his skill at capital raising,was proposed by the chairman and passed with acclamation.

The chairman and CEO then basically reiterated the details released to the NZX the night before the meeting with most information being given by CEO Brian Watson during his presentation. Naturally, they were both upbeat about reporting a projected profit for theyear and Brian paid tribute to the work of Barry and the team for the company’s current position.

A few days prior to the event I emailed a list of questions about the company’s results and activities to Brian Watson. A number of the questions in my email were answered in last Thursday evening’s announcements. These included the quantum of the forecast FY17 profit, the first quarter sales and profit announcement, an outline of the vision for the company’s future and the direction in which product developmentis heading. Also, the matter of future capital requirements was addressed in the announcements but only to the extent that the board is reviewing the issue and no decision has been taken yet.

Brian advised that since joining the business in mid-February he had visited the company’s key markets and principal customers. He said he now has a good understanding of what the company is aboutand is optimistic about its prospects for the future.

He said last year’s product quality issue wasresolved to the satisfaction of the parties concerned and that the company has learnt plenty from the experience. As a consequence, key appointments have beenmade in the areas of quality assurance, product development and processimprovement. He also referred to last year’s appointment of a CFO – clearlythere are now sufficient beans coming in to count to justify that role!

The GRAS approval has resulted in heightened interest in Blis products from markets in Europe and Japan and this augurs well for the future. The company is reviewing its own manufacturingfacilities and those that are outsourced to ensure they can maintain growth and product quality. Fonterra was revealed as one of BLT’s outsourced manufacturers.

Overall, I felt Brian spoke very well and presented the company’s position and its prospects clearly and enthusiastically. He appears to be a very capable and confident leader and I believe he will be the right man to take the business to the next level.

At the conclusion of the formal part of the meeting thechairman sought questions from the floor. I asked a couple and also spoke toBrian Watson personally after the meeting.

CHINA: Asked about slow progress in China the chairman advised that the regulatory environment in that country hadchanged about four times in the past few years making it difficult to penetratethe market. Trials are ongoing and the company is expecting that anannouncement regarding China will be made in the last quarter of this year.

KEY RISKS:
I asked the chairman whether the Board hasidentified any key risks to the business such as competition in the market. Hereplied that the company maintains a risk register containing around 15 items that are reported on by management at each board meeting. Two principal areasthat are monitored particularly carefully are competition and regulatory risks.
He advised that competition is appearing from three companies in particular (he gave their names but unfortunately I wasn’t quick enough to record them). He said despite that, BLT is well placed to capitalise on its position and to prosper in the market.

Director Bevan Wallace also spoke to theissue of regulatory risk and said that this was the area that mostly contributed to the chairman staying awake at night. BLT needs to maintain awareness of not only the claims they make about their products but also those made by distributors and resellers. Also packaging and labelling of shipments for export are areas that need constant attention.

PRODUCT FOCUS:
Brian sees prospects for accelerated growththrough branded consumer products as the best and most profitable way forward butwithout limiting sales in other areas. Categorisation of the company’s productsis an issue in the pharmacy trade e.g. they are not cough & cold products – so hewould ultimately like to be able to market a range of Blis products in the same way as Thompsons or Blackmores do with their ranges.

TV ADS:
These will continue running through to the end of August to capitalise on the winter trade.

CLINICAL TRIALS:
The Porirua trial sponsored by the NZ Health Research Council is completed but the results cannot be shared untilt hey are published by the HRC.

SHARE CONSOLIDATION:
The company is aware of the negative "penny dreadful" perceptioncaused by the high volume of issued shares and the relatively low SP.Consolidating the shares would cost the company an NZX fee in the order of $30,000. The board feels there are better uses of company funds at present though the matter is not off the radar.

The company is commissioning an independent research report on BLT that will be released to the market when completed.

MARKETING/WEB SITE:
Brian said that a major makeover is planned for the company’s web site – including the Investor pages. He said that heintends to continue direct marketing of the company’s products online as wellas selling through pharmacies.

BLT IS AN EXPORTER:
80% of sales are from exports and this percentage will increase over time as existing markets are expanded and newones developed.

Attendees received a "goody" bag containing Blis products and were treated to an exceptional variety of finger food following the meeting. I ate your share!

SUMMARY:
Despite profits being forecast there is no prospect of dividends in the foreseeable future. In my view, I think further capital raising could well be a possibility but this would be a good thing if it is to develop facilities to bring more production in-house and to undertake more market expansion.

The business is being steadied with production capability and process improvement developed so there is a sound base from which growth can be accelerated over coming years.

Plenty of potential exists in current markets and new ones will be sought. Product development and innovation will continue with a focus on branded finished consumer goods (obviously where the margins are).

Overall, my perception is life is looking pretty good for BLT and itspatient shareholders.

Bonne chance to holders
Pierre


I scrolled back through the pages on this thread to find my report on the ASM I attended in 2016. I certainly sounded quite bullish based on the information provided at the meeting.

I'm not feeling anywhere near as confident about the company, the CEO and the board these days - and I think there are a number of questions above that need to be repeated at this month's ASM.

I'm still uncertain about attending - is anyone else planning to be there?

[Leftfield]

Sorry to hear you've stopped too, Left Field. We can only hope that the shareholders can be bothered to vote Barry on as it would appear that the company sees no need to change tack in any way. Baffling in light of the financials, to me anyway. Q1 revenue at an annualised rate of 6.56m and yet still a loss, even at EBITDA, again.

Thank you for your kind words Simla, however I doubt my defection will cause any ripples in the BLT world.

I’ve been a BLT shareholder since 2012 buying at an intial 1c. I purchased because a.) I liked the product. b.) I wanted to support this off-shoot of the Otago Uni and importanty, I guaged that at that time the BLT SP was due for an upswing.

I got the last point right and at one stage my BLT investment (which I later added to as it climbed) made a gain of 350% and while I did not sell all my holding at the peak, I have subsequnetly sold down as I have seen this company struggle to gain traction (despite having a good product in the now trendy field of ‘pro-biotics’.)

This time last year I gave my remaining ‘free held’ shares a stern talking to, but unfortunately I have not seen the progress I had hoped for. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have sold my entire holding when the ‘death cross’ TA signal was breached in Jan 2017.

The latest saga re the Directorship of the original founder Barry Richardson greatly saddened me and I no longer have faith in the Board or the Management.

Quite simply, I cannot see any signs of a ‘game changing’ strategy that suits BLT’s ‘game changing’ product. My simple question is what is BLT’s strategy to see BLT climb from a $7 mill company to a $70 million company? (or more.)

So I’m out, Should I see any evidence of a winning BLT strategy, then I will be amongst the first to buy back in, but in the meantime GLH.

[winner69]

Good post of a few yewars ago pierre

Liked the bit about Barry in the thank you bit getting 'acclamation' re his ' ...in particular for his skill at capital raising'

Had to keep the gravy train going eh

[bull....]

worth a punt? decline from 6c if profits improve was probably oversold? at just over 1c

[bull....]

rise over 2c looks like a break of downtrend from 6c i reckon

[pierre]

rise over 2c looks like a break of downtrend from 6c i reckon
Slowly edging back up - 1.8 just now.
Wait till Barry gets on the board at the ASM and watch the meteoric rise in the SP ;)

PS - I cant get to Dunedin to the meeting. Is anyone else from ST planning to attend? There are a few questions that need to be answered by the CEO and the Chair.

[bull....]

Slowly edging back up - 1.8 just now.
Wait till Barry gets on the board at the ASM and watch the meteoric rise in the SP ;)

PS - I cant get to Dunedin to the meeting. Is anypne else from ST planning to attend? There are a few questions that need to be answerd by the CEO and the Chair.

i brought the other day , im assuming they will get it right this time.

I think you can email them and ask for questions to be addressed at the meeting

[GR8DAY]

rise over 2c looks like a break of downtrend from 6c i reckon

.... clearly bottomed out at 1.3c and now trending north.... not before time either. Will we see 6c again? Possibly but even 4c wud be a welcome gain on sub 2c which has been the case for way too long.

[Leftfield]

.... clearly bottomed out at 1.3c and now trending north.... not before time either. Will we see 6c again? Possibly but even 4c wud be a welcome gain on sub 2c which has been the case for way too long.

Looks like I unleashed the tiger by selling!! GLH.

[bull....]

we have arrived at 2c

[pierre]

we have arrived at 2c
Yes, I'm back on the right side again.

Maybe there's some good news to be announced at the ASM. Is anyone able to attend?

[GR8DAY]

Yes, I'm back on the right side again.

Maybe there's some good news to be announced at the ASM. Is anyone able to attend?

...... you've done well then Pierre! (my lot owe me about 3.2c, so a wee way to go for me. I'm sure we'll be back there soon so not worried at all)

[bull....]

Yes, I'm back on the right side again.

Maybe there's some good news to be announced at the ASM. Is anyone able to attend?

wouldnt hurt the share price if they had something positive to announce at the agm , something really good could get us on track back to 6c lol

[NeverQuestion]

To the Moon!!!

9809

[bull....]

To the Moon!!!

9809


could be the breakout of the down trend

[bull....]

2.3c now wow dont mean to crow but its up 50% now :t_up: looking forward to agm update

[simla]

Everyone has bothered and remembered to vote I hope.

[pierre]

Everyone has bothered and remembered to vote I hope.

I certainly have Simla.

Unfortunately I am unable to attend the ASM this year and despite asking on ST several times if anyone else will be present, there has been zero response.

[weasel]

I certainly have Simla.

Unfortunately I am unable to attend the ASM this year and despite asking on ST several times if anyone else will be present, there has been zero response.

I can't believe some ppl on this forum are actually in the black?! I average about 30 cents with this puppy.

[pierre]

I can't believe some ppl on this forum are actually in the black?! I average about 30 cents with this puppy.

I've been a holder since 2005 when I made my first purchase at 19cents. I bought more at various times at various prices but invested heavily some years ago when the shares were on sale at 0.7 cents each. I now have a large holding at an average of around 1.9 cents so I'm pleased to see the recent lift in the SP.
Regrettably, I think it's likely to be a long time before you will see the SP at 30 cents.

[simla]

I can't believe some ppl on this forum are actually in the black?! I average about 30 cents with this puppy.

People who backed the initial float in 2001 were backing just the idea but with no existing track record of the company itself to compare to. That didn't work out so well.

People who are in the black backed Barry (CEO 2006/7 - 2015/6) during his early years when it was a big struggle. Shares were very cheap, and there were issues, and events were such to massively test the resolve of anyone.

But those who backed the company during that stage saw revenues rise from $466k in 2007 to $5,660k when he left in 2016, or a twelve fold increase in revenue.

More importantly, export sales in 2007 were $184k, rising to a probable about $5,000k in 2016 (new management did not report NZ sales in the 2016 report, using 2015 NZ figure) which is a massive twenty-seven fold increase in exports over that time.

Sales since Barry left, on the other hand, have dropped from $5.66m in 2016 to $5.28m last reported for 2018. The share price reached 5.9c with the last report from Barry's era, but was 1.3c a few weeks ago.

Despite this, "3.2 The Board does not believe that the appointment of Mr Richardson will sufficiently add to the Board’s capability and does not support the election of Mr Richardson. " https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320069

Which is why I remind people to have voted on Barry being appointed to the Board.

[simla]

To put that in even simpler language:

I voted for Barry to join the Board quite simply because he is a very talented and successful businessman, as shown by the above figures. Few NZ businessmen could match that record I would have thought.

[GR8DAY]

Thanks Simla......they are very impressive and enviable growth figures.......as you rightly say there wouldnt be many (if any) other companies that could match those, and all under Barry's watch. I agree we need him back on board to assist with further sustainable growth. You cant beat experience and the intimate product knowledge Barry must have.

[pierre]

Thanks Simla......they are very impressive and enviable growth figures.......as you rightly say there wouldnt be many (if any) other companies that could match those, and all under Barry's watch. I agree we need him back on board to assist with further sustainable growth. You cant beat experience and the intimate product knowledge Barry must have.

Agree - makes you wonder what are the real reasons the current board (and CEO) are so anti Barry's return to the fold?

[GR8DAY]

Can someone advise the best /safest way to proxy vote .......Ive never done this before. Who should we be nominating as proxy or doesnt it matter? Excuse the ignorance I should know better at my age!

[simla]

Personally I did what it said on the proxy form: "As a shareholder you may attend the meeting and vote, or you may appoint a proxy to attend the meeting. A proxy need not be a shareholder of the Company. The chairman or any other Director of the Company is willing to act as a proxy. If a shareholder wishes to appoint the chairman or any other Director as proxy, they will vote in favour of all of the other resolutions put to the meeting unless otherwise directed. To do so, please write their name or position clearly in the space marked (eg, "Chair of the meeting").

Too late to post it to Dunedin in the current day and age I would have thought, with less than three business days left for delivery now, so you are left with email : "Please return completed proxy form to: Blis Technologies Limited, 81 Glasgow St, South Dunedin, PO Box 2208, South Dunedin 9044 (Attn: [PB]) or by email to [email] no later than 11:00am on Wednesday 25 July 2018."

By email, I assume that they mean attach a scanned signed pdf copy, although personally I have never done it that way.

But remember, "4.If you return this form without directing the proxy how to vote on any particular matter, the proxy will vote as he or she thinks fit."

[GR8DAY]

Cheers Simla........I guess we can trust these other directors to cast our vote as directed. (all things considered) ???

[simla]

Glad to hear you are voting, Gr8day. However, I have to say that I personally expect to resume non-shareholding regardless of the vote.

Even if Barry's input is able to help strengthen the company's ideas, I still see hard yards ahead now. With the patent situation weakening with each year, I would have very much preferred to see the company taking the very many millions in revenue over the last few years to build a cash war chest, but instead it mostly got spent. A strong company is a liquid company to my mind, and options are fewer when you don't have a load of cash to play with. The last report showed working capital of $1.5m on revenue of $5.3m.

But I never claim to be right, so time will tell what actually happens next.

[pierre]

I checked with Pamela Bedford, whose name appears on the proxy documents, and she confirmed that a properly completd form, scanned and emailed is a perfectly valid way to cast your vote. No matter who you name as your proxy (provided they are at the meeting) your vote will be counted according to the instructions you give by ticking the appropriate boxes.

Hope this helps.

[simla]

Thanks, Pierre. I suggested a scanned pdf, but I presume any format would do, such as jpegs.

A lot of people probably do 'scans' now by simply taking a good photo with their smartphones or whatever, pretty easy. But people would have to remember to send scans of both pages of the proxy whatever way they do it.

And I presume that Pamela would email you back if she could not accept what you sent if you didn't leave it too late.

[pierre]

Thanks, Pierre. I suggested a scanned pdf, but I presume any format would do, such as jpegs.

A lot of people probably do 'scans' now by simply taking a good photo with their smartphones or whatever, pretty easy. But people would have to remember to send scans of both pages of the proxy whatever way they do it.

And I presume that Pamela would email you back if she could not accept what you sent if you didn't leave it too late.

Mine went as a PDF but I imagine any document that is properly completed and sent in a legible and printable format would be accepted. Easy enough to request an email response confirming receipt and acceptability as I did.

[pierre]

I am a member of the NZ Shareholders" Association and received an email today advising they will have representatives at the Shareholders' meeting and that the association can be appointed as proxy.

If you wish to appoint the NZSA (you don't have to be a member) just write in: “New Zealand Shareholders Association, Auckland.

Please note the comments below from their email in connection with the nomination of Barry Richardson:


"Barry Richardson was the CEO of Blis Technologies for 10 years until 2016. NZSA’s policy is that former CEOs should not be appointed to the Board for at least 3 years after they cease office as the CEO. This is to preserve the separation of roles and to ensure the new CEO is not subject to any undue pressure from the former CEO. In addition, during Mr Richardson’s time as CEO, in our view the company failed to perform commercially. We do not believe he can add enough to the board to warrant election.

We will vote undirected proxies AGAINST this resolution. "

This means that if you want to vote in favour of Barry's election you will need to direct your proxy by ticking the appropriate box.

The completed proxy form needs to be emailed or posted to the company by 11.00am Wednesday 25th July 2018.

[GR8DAY]

Thanks for the replies u2. I actually contacted Blis directly and was sent the below reply pretty promptly.
(abridged)

"I can give you Tony Offens address if you are happy to nominate him (he is the chairman).
His name is Antony P Offen
39 Green Street, Mosgiel, 9024.

Please let me know if you have any other questions I can help with.

Kind regards
Julie @ Blis"

[winner69]

I am a member of the NZ Shareholders" Association and received an email today advising they will have representatives at the Shareholders' meeting and that the association can be appointed as proxy.

If you wish to appoint the NZSA (you don't have to be a member) just write in: “New Zealand Shareholders Association, Auckland.

Please note the comments below from their email in connection with the nomination of Barry Richardson:


"Barry Richardson was the CEO of Blis Technologies for 10 years until 2016. NZSA’s policy is that former CEOs should not be appointed to the Board for at least 3 years after they cease office as the CEO. This is to preserve the separation of roles and to ensure the new CEO is not subject to any undue pressure from the former CEO. In addition, during Mr Richardson’s time as CEO, in our view the company failed to perform commercially. We do not believe he can add enough to the board to warrant election.

We will vote undirected proxies AGAINST this resolution. "

This means that if you want to vote in favour of Barry's election you will need to direct your proxy by ticking the appropriate box.

The completed proxy form needs to be emailed or posted to the company by 11.00am Wednesday 25th July 2018.


Somebody agrees with my views ...good people those Shareholders Association guys

But then some of youthis Barry is the bees knees

[simla]

Well, certainly I hope the Shareholders Association is in the habit of providing deeper arguments than the simple statement "in our view the company failed to perform commercially". I do not think they would be impressed if that was the level of arguments the companies presented to them. I'll assume there was more somewhere else.

(a) Wait 3 years? Well, that's a generalised rule but should obviously be compared to how things have gone since, which comparison was not evident in the quoted text here. Further, the company has already forecast that next year's result will be fairly similar to this year's in that there will again not be a profit of note, for three years in a row of the new management that the Shareholders Association said they wished to give room to.

(b) Failed to perform after 10 years. Well, presumably they are pretty unhappy with Xero turning in a loss again after 11 years then, -$27m?

(c) Have they factored in that Blis had to create an oral probiotics market from scratch? With almost no resources? And did it almost world-wide? Do they think it easy to suggest people put germs in their mouth?

(d) I note that Xero increased it's revenue by 37% last year. I pointed out above that Blis increased exports 27 fold over Barry's time, which is 39% compounded over 10 years if you hit your calculators.


All up, I think it would be more meaningful to indicate what you were voting in favour of than simply to veto something without any alternative. If Blis was turning out promising results then I do not imagine that Barry would be standing as he has stated quite clearly that he is concerned. "I am standing for the position of Director because I am deeply concerned about the current share price, the limited working capital available, high overhead costs, the fluctuating sales in many regions, in marked contrast to the European sector. Of concern also is the long-term potential impact on the company after the expiry of the Blis K12 patent in 2 years. " https://www.nzx.com/announcements/320069

When you have someone standing who produced compounding export growth of 39% pa over 10 years, and you compare it to the current state which has actually reduced revenue instead, then I think the Shareholders Association could reasonably make a better case than merely indicating that they are waiting for a better offer. Sorry, not impressed though I'm sure they mean well.

To repeat what I've said before : The only argument I have proposed in this debate is that I believe the company would be stronger with Barry on the Board than without.

[simla]

Well, in the end and like every other election, the voters will decide what they want.

[Yoda]

If K12 patent comes off in 2 years, then they could be in a pickle. Im not sure how much revenue comes just from k12.
are any patents coming off other things soon ??

Disc. In the black :-)

[winner69]

I assume Forsyth Barr will be voting against Barry

Does Barry actually have any shares now, had about 16 million at one stage

[simla]

Well the sole line of argument I have presented here is that the financials of the company do not seem impressive recently. I see no reason to assume that FB would see it otherwise as a matter of course.

The last report lists Leveraged Equities Finance Ltd as having 172m shares, and the companies register lists that company as owned by FB Group. If you had hoped the shares would be worth 10 cents more by now, then 172m shares might give you reason to reflect carefully on where you thought this was going.

Strengthening the Board hardly seems a challenging idea to my mind.

[suse]

just searched through all my unfiled paperwork looking for the voting form with no joy. For the life of me I cant recall getting one and dont think I would have thrown out (at least not until after the date). Anyway have emailed Pamela to see if she can provide me with the paperwork as there is nothing on LInk Investor site either.

[GR8DAY]

just searched through all my unfiled paperwork looking for the voting form with no joy. For the life of me I cant recall getting one and dont think I would have thrown out (at least not until after the date). Anyway have emailed Pamela to see if she can provide me with the paperwork as there is nothing on LInk Investor site either.

.......I contacted Link and they resent me the appropriate paperwork (proxy voting form). ??

[simla]

Good to hear you guys are making the effort to vote.

[winner69]

No doubt SIGNIUM have found the next Director and just waiting for the AGM to be over before finalising ..might be a problem if Barry gets a yes vote .....you might let a good man slip through your fingers

That Director Boyd joined the Board about the same time as Barry left ......hmmm ....he’s presided over not so good financials eh

[simla]

you might let a good man slip through your fingers
Put your name forward have you, Winner?

[simla]

More seriously, Winner, four of the current Board live in Dunedin and both the current candidates come from Dunedin. I think that we have to accept that a small company that meets in Dunedin (I assume) is not going to attract a lot of people from outside Dunedin. Flight time Auckland to Dunedin is 2 hours, often more, just one way, plus travel to and from airports. And much more from smaller cities.

Since Dunedin's population is less than 3% of NZ's population, it seems strange that the Board is opposing a capable candidate from there. Some people might think it a smart move to withdraw their opposition before the vote.

[jimbo]

If K12 patent comes off in 2 years, then they could be in a pickle. Im not sure how much revenue comes just from k12.
are any patents coming off other things soon ??

Disc. In the black :-)

I agree that this is a concern. I think they have a few more years on the M18 patent but it's not a great position to be in. There are plenty of giants out there that would be capable of reproducing their products fairly quickly (if they were interested).

I'm curious about the status of the skin probiotic that has been in development for a while. If it prevents or decreases acne, we could be headed for a whole new ballgame.

[simla]

Last chance to vote by proxy for anyone who hasn't. Closes tomorrow morning at 11am.

An election is a great way of settling a matter because nobody can question the result. Win or lose, the voters have spoken.

[winner69]

I agree that this is a concern. I think they have a few more years on the M18 patent but it's not a great position to be in. There are plenty of giants out there that would be capable of reproducing their products fairly quickly (if they were interested).

I'm curious about the status of the skin probiotic that has been in development for a while. If it prevents or decreases acne, we could be headed for a whole new ballgame.

Interesting you said ‘if they were interested’

Appears as if no interest in this ‘science’ anyway?

[winner69]

More seriously, Winner, four of the current Board live in Dunedin and both the current candidates come from Dunedin. I think that we have to accept that a small company that meets in Dunedin (I assume) is not going to attract a lot of people from outside Dunedin. Flight time Auckland to Dunedin is 2 hours, often more, just one way, plus travel to and from airports. And much more from smaller cities.

Since Dunedin's population is less than 3% of NZ's population, it seems strange that the Board is opposing a capable candidate from there. Some people might think it a smart move to withdraw their opposition before the vote.

Being Dunedin based was noted in that report re directors fees and given as one of the reasons why an increase was warranted.

Good lurk if Board meetings timed in conjunction with Ed Sheeran concerts or big rugby games.

[simla]

Proxy voting has closed. Time for one of my long posts? Tough, here it is anyway :)

I wonder if this vote is way deeper than just judging how the financials are going at BLT? Why is the company going to such lengths to reject Barry after so many years' service? What is the plan of the new management?

All over the world now it is quite evident that there is a deep rift in society. Trump. Brexit. Putin's Russia. Right wing parties in Europe. Even India is caught up in it trying to abolish cash in the face of traditional Indian culture.

How to characterise this deep rift? Well, I think of it as a battle over post-modernism (used in the broader sense than merely describing an art movement). It is the culmination of the Enlightenment which began in the 1600s as the Dark Ages slowly receded into history and then the rise of the City State made possible the idea of improving the lot of mankind instead of just endlessly living a daily grind of violence, poverty and disease. The idea took root that we could make the world a better place and this became an increasing focus of humanity over the centuries that followed. It is a good plan and has gained near universal adoption around the world.

But along the way a certain dotted line was passed that not everyone has since agreed on. Somewhere we changed from merely making the world a better place to making the world a perfect place. I think it probably happened over the last 60 or 70 years, partly as a reaction to World War 2, and partly as an offshoot of the incredible prosperity made possible by the widespread use of oil. Alongside it grew the idea of individualism, a long way from Kennedy's "think not what society can do for you". Social welfare flourished, and quality control is all the rage, along with championing the rights of the minority, hi tech, smartphones etc.

It is epitomised in modern-day Europe with EU government, Eurovision and the illegality of hate speech. Disneyland was an earlier version that still holds sway in Los Angelos and New York.

But underlying that dream are some awkward facts. Beggars are common throughout the prosperous West now. People live under bridges and in cars, and statistics are being massaged to hide some truths that aren't popular in some quarters.

Some of you will be aware of a place called Shadowstats, where US government statistics are available as they would have been calculated years ago before the formulas were changed to give nicer answers. That site tells us that US unemployment is reported today at 4% but would once have been counted at a staggering 22% with the old formula. US Inflation is reported at 3% but would have been reported at 6.5% - obviously incomes are not going up at 6.5% pa but costs are.

Underlying all of this is the ever more visible question: is the world actually a better place? Those who do well under the current system have voted against Brexit, for Hilary Clinton, etc - for the status quo in other words, presumably because they think it is going pretty well. Those who are not the winners have voted for Brexit and for Trump. This is possible because the number of losers is now so high that they can win elections. A recent poll in the UK, for instance, shows that 40% would now vote for a right wing anti-immigrant party, which would have been unthinkable a few years ago. So far this force does not seem to have arrived in a NZ political party but I suspect it will.

So how does all this apply to BLT? Well, I would offer the possibility that the same battle is being fought out at BLT. Barry was definitely of the "roll up your sleeves, muck and dirt" variety that believes that good results come from hard work and solid preparation. Whereas I think it is possible that the current management are from the European mold of sophistication, build it and they will come, marketing will create the market, the world should be a good place, good concepts become good reality.

Now the intriguing thing is that (presently at least) BOTH models are viable. Facebook prospers with the post-modernist model and the FAANGS are holding together the S&P 500. It DOES make money and it is an in demand model. On the other hand there is no denying that basics are in strong demand too. Supermarket in-store brands are flourishing, and the label brands are struggling to hold them off nowadays.

History appears to be at a balancing point and there is no knowing what the future will hold. Maybe both models will continue as viable, maybe one model will swamp the other. I think personally that Brexit models the situation very well. There is no telling which side will win in the short term, nor which side will represent the public mood in the end.

So is this what the vote is about at BLT right now? Does Barry represent the one model, and the new management are trying to switch BLT to the other model as being more appropriate and successful? I don't know and this is just my random musings. I think it is possible though. It would explain why they do not want Barry to join in.

However, if so, then the result would not be a vote on Barry or the Board but a vote on which model the company will pursue. Presumably Barry's time attracted a lot of shareholders who liked the one model but who may have left since then. And the new management style may have attracted a whole lot of newer shareholders who like the other model.

Friday will tell us the result, but not its meaning alas. These are musings, but their truth cannnot be known.

As always, merely my own random thoughts. I have tried not to portray either viewpoint as right. Obviously I personally have an opinion, but I never claim to be right and history is always the judge in the end. Or maybe I have just imagined all of this.

[suse]

Some interesting thoughts Simla and I dont really know what to make of them all. But in all honesty from my side at least, at the end of the day, I would just like Blis to make some money and for the shareprice to not wallow below 3c for ever and a day. It is a good product that is trying to make the world a better place I think.

[winner69]

Proxy voting has closed. Time for one of my long posts? Tough, here it is anyway :)

I wonder if this vote is way deeper than just judging how the financials are going at BLT? Why is the company going to such lengths to reject Barry after so many years' service? What is the plan of the new management?

All over the world now it is quite evident that there is a deep rift in society. Trump. Brexit. Putin's Russia. Right wing parties in Europe. Even India is caught up in it trying to abolish cash in the face of traditional Indian culture.

How to characterise this deep rift? Well, I think of it as a battle over post-modernism (used in the broader sense than merely describing an art movement). It is the culmination of the Enlightenment which began in the 1600s as the Dark Ages slowly receded into history and then the rise of the City State made possible the idea of improving the lot of mankind instead of just endlessly living a daily grind of violence, poverty and disease. The idea took root that we could make the world a better place and this became an increasing focus of humanity over the centuries that followed. It is a good plan and has gained near universal adoption around the world.

But along the way a certain dotted line was passed that not everyone has since agreed on. Somewhere we changed from merely making the world a better place to making the world a perfect place. I think it probably happened over the last 60 or 70 years, partly as a reaction to World War 2, and partly as an offshoot of the incredible prosperity made possible by the widespread use of oil. Alongside it grew the idea of individualism, a long way from Kennedy's "think not what society can do for you". Social welfare flourished, and quality control is all the rage, along with championing the rights of the minority, hi tech, smartphones etc.

It is epitomised in modern-day Europe with EU government, Eurovision and the illegality of hate speech. Disneyland was an earlier version that still holds sway in Los Angelos and New York.

But underlying that dream are some awkward facts. Beggars are common throughout the prosperous West now. People live under bridges and in cars, and statistics are being massaged to hide some truths that aren't popular in some quarters.

Some of you will be aware of a place called Shadowstats, where US government statistics are available as they would have been calculated years ago before the formulas were changed to give nicer answers. That site tells us that US unemployment is reported today at 4% but would once have been counted at a staggering 22% with the old formula. US Inflation is reported at 3% but would have been reported at 6.5% - obviously incomes are not going up at 6.5% pa but costs are.

Underlying all of this is the ever more visible question: is the world actually a better place? Those who do well under the current system have voted against Brexit, for Hilary Clinton, etc - for the status quo in other words, presumably because they think it is going pretty well. Those who are not the winners have voted for Brexit and for Trump. This is possible because the number of losers is now so high that they can win elections. A recent poll in the UK, for instance, shows that 40% would now vote for a right wing anti-immigrant party, which would have been unthinkable a few years ago. So far this force does not seem to have arrived in a NZ political party but I suspect it will.

So how does all this apply to BLT? Well, I would offer the possibility that the same battle is being fought out at BLT. Barry was definitely of the "roll up your sleeves, muck and dirt" variety that believes that good results come from hard work and solid preparation. Whereas I think it is possible that the current management are from the European mold of sophistication, build it and they will come, marketing will create the market, the world should be a good place, good concepts become good reality.

Now the intriguing thing is that (presently at least) BOTH models are viable. Facebook prospers with the post-modernist model and the FAANGS are holding together the S&P 500. It DOES make money and it is an in demand model. On the other hand there is no denying that basics are in strong demand too. Supermarket in-store brands are flourishing, and the label brands are struggling to hold them off nowadays.

History appears to be at a balancing point and there is no knowing what the future will hold. Maybe both models will continue as viable, maybe one model will swamp the other. I think personally that Brexit models the situation very well. There is no telling which side will win in the short term, nor which side will represent the public mood in the end.

So is this what the vote is about at BLT right now? Does Barry represent the one model, and the new management are trying to switch BLT to the other model as being more appropriate and successful? I don't know and this is just my random musings. I think it is possible though. It would explain why they do not want Barry to join in.

However, if so, then the result would not be a vote on Barry or the Board but a vote on which model the company will pursue. Presumably Barry's time attracted a lot of shareholders who liked the one model but who may have left since then. And the new management style may have attracted a whole lot of newer shareholders who like the other model.

Friday will tell us the result, but not its meaning alas. These are musings, but their truth cannnot be known.

As always, merely my own random thoughts. I have tried not to portray either viewpoint as right. Obviously I personally have an opinion, but I never claim to be right and history is always the judge in the end. Or maybe I have just imagined all of this.

Jeez Simla ...thats a very philosophical post.

Interrupted my reading of Back on the New Road to Serfdom (Wood).

Both makes one think ...thanks for your post

[RGR367]

Jeez Simla ...thats a very philosophical post.

Interrupted my reading of Back on the New Road to Serfdom (Wood).

Both makes one think ...thanks for your post

Yeah, Simla. Yet a sign you're really on board again with BLT :p

[bullfrog]

Great debate, love it when someone brings something in from left field, thanks Simla. I believe there is a dissatisfaction with the status quo - the trump effect - dangerous/interesting times. Anyhoo, I’m excited about the Barry ballot, don’t think the Russians have been involved...

[jimbo]

Interesting you said ‘if they were interested’

Appears as if no interest in this ‘science’ anyway?

Yeah, I imagine a potential competitor might want to see a bigger market than the one BLIS is currently servicing. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the global market could be made a lot bigger with the sort of marketing campaigns that only the giants can afford. It still surprises me how few medical professionals in New Zealand have heard of BLIS after more than a decade on the shelves.

[GR8DAY]

I doubt having Barry back on board will be the Silver Bullet BUT he will no doubt bring back those special ingredients (no pun intended) that money just can't buy.......EXPERIENCE , EXPERTISE and maybe even a little EXCITEMENT! Variety in management is also very important ingredient IMO, so lets hope Barry does get back on board to add to the mix. Probiotics is still in it's infancy but is gaining global acceptance steadily. I believe some more aggressive marketing should be considered now to take advantage of this growing awareness......we have a unique product that the world should know about and if they need more funds for that to happen then I for one would be happy to support that.

[simla]

I doubt having Barry back on board will be the Silver Bullet BUT he will no doubt bring back those special ingredients (no pun intended) that money just can't buy.......EXPERIENCE , EXPERTISE and maybe even a little EXCITEMENT! Variety in management is also very important ingredient IMO, so lets hope Barry does get back on board to add to the mix.
Humans have always found common ground once they actually sit down and talk openly. You are correct that Barry is offering expertise. Unless the company has a strategy so weak that it could not withstand robust discussion, then it remains the smart choice to drop the opposition before the vote and welcome on board someone who has a lot to offer. In particular, Barry has demonstrated that he knows how to maximise the impact of a dollar and that would simply increase the impact of their strategy, not threaten it.

There is a very old saying : strength in diversity.

[winner69]

You guys admiration of Barry is truly astounding

One comment ‘he knows how to maximise the impact of a dollar’ - didn’t seem to do much ‘maximisation’ while he was in charge

[simla]

Winner, you keep missing the point. You and the Shareholders Association are sitting around waiting for a better offer. Tell me that Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs are offering to join the Board and we will undoubtedly be delighted.

But actually this is a real live listed company with real live shareholders with real live investments that exists NOW. Barry DID grow exports at 39% pa compounding over 10 years and is now offering his services to the company again. If that had been repeated since he left then revenue would have been $11m in 2018, instead of $5.3m which is negative growth on when Barry left.

When you have a better offer, let us know. Those of us who see the real world as choosing from the options in front of us, yes, we see a lot of potential in Barry. For goodness sakes, there are five other people on the Board and they are hardly going to empower Barry unless he has something useful to say. That is why you elect a group of people in the first place: they all contribute what they can. But this habit of not wanting to even listen to people unless they already agree with you is a whole new idea that is creeping into the world.

[simla]

You and I are sitting here debating right now, Winner. We have different points of view. Is that a bad thing? No, it is constructive to air the points of view. I'm not offended that you disagree with me, and I don't think you are offended that I disagree with you. Debating from different points of view helps ensure that all sides of a question are getting an airing. That's good in the world where I live.

[GR8DAY]

I suspect (hope) things are on the improve already and Barry's re election (if it happens) will bring some impetus to the momentum going forward.... let's hope so. If he doesn't get re elected it won't be the end of the world either .... maybe just a different take on it. I remain optimistic either way.

[simla]

If he doesn't get re elected it won't be the end of the world either
Quite right, Gr8day. But that doesn't mean it is not worth discussing a proposition on the table. The last time we had a good discussion about a Board proposition was when they proposed we delist the company. Thank goodness we won that debate.

It is the shareholders' choice who joins the Board, not the Board's.

[simla]

AWF did their AGM presentation and it announced the proxy votes in advance. http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/AWF/321260/283274.pdf

Blis must know their proxy voting now and it would seem reasonable to announce to shareholders that situation before tomorrow's meeting, since they have taken a stance against a vote and are in possession of information on the voting that others cannot know.

[simla]

Don't worry, Gr8day. The company publicly opposed the nomination for director of a publicly listed company. So I and others have therefore publicly expressed our own thinking and logic, the better to ensure shareholders have a chance of hearing competing views and thinking this thing through. Thanks in particular to Winner for ensuring both sides are put too. But the voters will decide, and I will accept that decision without any attempt at relitigating it afterwards. But it would be nuts not to have any discussion of the matter before the vote.

[GR8DAY]

...yep out of our hands now SIMLA. What will be will be. I wont cry over it if Barry's not re-elected but believed it would be good for things generally. I guess if it doesn't happen then at least we've all aired our views and hopefully the directors will take some of the comments on board and act accordingly. We as shareholders (some very longstanding) deserve to see OUR company turn a reasonable and sustainable profit in the very near future ........this financial year would be good!!

[simla]

Well, well. Barry is on the Board. 54% for, 46% against (335m vs 281m). A staggering 61% of shares were voted. http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/BLT/321394/283454.pdf

[simla]

I'll bet they're all looking forward to the first Board meeting after all that! However, people always manage to sort out any differences of viewpoint once they talk and listen, and I'm sure this will be no exception.

[bull....]

Well, well. Barry is on the Board. 54% for, 46% against (335m vs 281m). A staggering 61% of shares were voted. http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/BLT/321394/283454.pdf

good effort by you getting the word out

[simla]

Possibly. But I think this is quite simply a measure of how popular Barry has been because of his past achievements for the company.

[winner69]

Well done Barry ...hope it all turns out OK. Expectations put on you Re very high

Support for Plunket was rather muted ...obviously quite a few not happy with him

[simla]

As you say, Winner. The company has a long journey ahead of it yet.

[GR8DAY]

Expectations are now high on ALL the directors to perform and turn a sustainable profit. Welcome back Barry.......lets see you work some magic. No pressure.

[suse]

I think Barry voted in sends a sign.

I was disappointed in the CEO presentation. So we’ve got a small profit to look forward to. Ummmm weren’t we expecting that 2-3 years ago.

And lord knows how many times I’ve harped on about this but probiotics for dogs. Revenue from pet affiliated stuff is big business. Wish they would do something in that field.

[simla]

Well it certainly sends the message that the Blis shareholders remain a feisty bunch. Well done shareholders for making the effort to be counted.

[Lorne Ranger]

Well it certainly sends the message that the Blis shareholders remain a feisty bunch. Well done shareholders for making the effort to be counted.

Indeed. We do own the company after all, but its nice to see the bus headed where the passengers want it to go for a change.

[moka]

Time for one of my long posts? Tough, here it is anyway :)

All over the world now it is quite evident that there is a deep rift in society. Trump. Brexit. Putin's Russia. Right wing parties in Europe. Even India is caught up in it trying to abolish cash in the face of traditional Indian culture.

How to characterise this deep rift? Well, I think of it as a battle over post-modernism (used in the broader sense than merely describing an art movement). It is the culmination of the Enlightenment which began in the 1600s as the Dark Ages slowly receded into history and then the rise of the City State made possible the idea of improving the lot of mankind instead of just endlessly living a daily grind of violence, poverty and disease. The idea took root that we could make the world a better place and this became an increasing focus of humanity over the centuries that followed. It is a good plan and has gained near universal adoption around the world.

But along the way a certain dotted line was passed that not everyone has since agreed on. Somewhere we changed from merely making the world a better place to making the world a perfect place. I think it probably happened over the last 60 or 70 years, partly as a reaction to World War 2, and partly as an offshoot of the incredible prosperity made possible by the widespread use of oil. Alongside it grew the idea of individualism, a long way from Kennedy's "think not what society can do for you". Social welfare flourished, and quality control is all the rage, along with championing the rights of the minority, hi tech, smartphones etc.

It is epitomised in modern-day Europe with EU government, Eurovision and the illegality of hate speech. Disneyland was an earlier version that still holds sway in Los Angelos and New York.

But underlying that dream are some awkward facts. Beggars are common throughout the prosperous West now. People live under bridges and in cars, and statistics are being massaged to hide some truths that aren't popular in some quarters.

Some of you will be aware of a place called Shadowstats, where US government statistics are available as they would have been calculated years ago before the formulas were changed to give nicer answers. That site tells us that US unemployment is reported today at 4% but would once have been counted at a staggering 22% with the old formula. US Inflation is reported at 3% but would have been reported at 6.5% - obviously incomes are not going up at 6.5% pa but costs are.

Underlying all of this is the ever more visible question: is the world actually a better place? Those who do well under the current system have voted against Brexit, for Hilary Clinton, etc - for the status quo in other words, presumably because they think it is going pretty well. Those who are not the winners have voted for Brexit and for Trump. This is possible because the number of losers is now so high that they can win elections. A recent poll in the UK, for instance, shows that 40% would now vote for a right wing anti-immigrant party, which would have been unthinkable a few years ago. So far this force does not seem to have arrived in a NZ political party but I suspect it will.

Facebook prospers with the post-modernist model and the FAANGS are holding together the S&P 500. It DOES make money and it is an in demand model. On the other hand there is no denying that basics are in strong demand too. Supermarket in-store brands are flourishing, and the label brands are struggling to hold them off nowadays.

History appears to be at a balancing point and there is no knowing what the future will hold. Maybe both models will continue as viable, maybe one model will swamp the other. I think personally that Brexit models the situation very well. There is no telling which side will win in the short term, nor which side will represent the public mood in the end.


Loved the post simla and thanks for sharing on sharetrader. I love big picture stuff and it is very relevant to long term investing. Long term the sharemarket is very predictable if you can identify the patterns, big trends and structural changes. I have edited the post a bit to focus on what for me are the important points. I wasn’t aware of Shadowstats and often wonder how inflation can be so low in NZ when all the basics such as food, power, petrol, rent, rates keep rising.


Despite lots of googling I’m not sure what Postmodernism means eg “Facebook prospers with a postmodernist model.” But this definition sounds simple and understandable - Postmodern theory sees reality as what individuals or social groups make it to be. But here is the mind game – reality in this context is actually perception and not the truth i.e facts.


What you have stated is lots of facts, truth, reality – deep rifts, beggars are common, lots of losers and this statement. The idea took root that we could make the world a better place and this became an increasing focus of humanity over the centuries that followed.


But in this statement give your perception of why it’s not happening. Somewhere we changed from merely making the world a better place to making the world a perfect place. I think it probably happened over the last 60 or 70 years.


Your perception of “changing to making the world a perfect place” is not an idea I had ever considered before - it’s not my perception. For me “perfection” is black and white thinking, the old model and undermines the move towards equality by setting an impossible target, so it is an idea originating from those rich and powerful people who have a vested interest in maintaining an unequal world.


My perception of why it is not happening is that in the last 60 or 70 years there has been a backlash against equal rights, civil rights, human rights, women’s rights, gay rights etc by those who benefit most from a hierarchical patriarchal society and want to maintain the status quo. They confuse to control – fake news, social engineering, propaganda and extending their influence into universities so we get meaningless garbage such as “Postmodernism is often associated with schools of thought such as deconstruction and post-structuralism.” What does that mean? It means whatever you want it to mean. Your reality is not my reality. So if you are poor and homeless and hungry well that’s only your perception, not a fact. Confused? Yes - good, you are never going to solve the problem if you aren’t sure what the problem is.

[simla]

Thanks for your comments, Moka. As one who has lived through those "sixty or seventy years" I can promise you that the trend to (intolerant) perfection is recent, the support of minority rights has only grown over that time, massively recently, and the backlash you mention is very new indeed, possibly starting following the 2007/8 crash which has left many people poorer and poorer while they watch minorities being offered increasing rights, but not them. People understood that you had to "rub against each other in peace" when I was young, but now people get told they aren't allowed to even say some stuff. Nobody had even heard of hate speech until very recently.

The Beatles hit was "Let It Be" remember. Whereas the Guardian newspaper now is a ceaseless string of articles on why this, that or the other thing is quite unacceptable. A complete reversal of attitude.

Yes, I totally agree with your definition of postmodernism: reality is what we make it. It doesn't actually bear thinking about, but it underlies so much of society these days anyway. The Facebook generation were appalled when Trump won because nobody had told them that that might happen. They lived in a different world than actual reality therefore.

[artemis]

...... you are never going to solve the problem if you aren’t sure what the problem is.

And that is the crux of the matter. Nobody in the NZ government, or anywhere much, is applying formal root cause analysis so the 'solutions' may be addressing the wrong problem. Expensively. RCA is hard, too hard, so let's spin problems so the solution fits the narrative. Done.

How are we the people supposed to see the facts in this context? In NZ we recently saw 'homeless' who turned out to be not homeless at all but street beggars spending takings on alcohol. And an official definition of homeless that turns out to be mainly shared households. (I mention those examples because I spent years at the sharp end of the social housing sector - some of the info is true, a lot of it is spin and politics and lies.)

[simla]

Well, drama over anyway. The only reason there was any drama was because the Board decided to oppose a popular candidate, and then the shareholders stirred themselves to vote him in anyway. One more person is appointed to a group of six. That's all that happened.

We will obviously never find out what happens behind closed doors. And I can't really see that we will even see if the company decides to change strategy in any way before the 2019 report in May 2019, a year away, if even then.

[Lorne Ranger]

Surely its blindingly obvious that the vast majority are far better off now than 70 years ago in terms of life expectancy and quality of that life. Modern support for minority rights is just society having the maturity and luxury to allow shared opportunity. Right wing ideologies prosper when people feel they have missed out or feel threatened, and recent trends in global migration fans both flames. Trump is a threat because he's so unpredictable so some countires will react to that and feel they need to brace. I dont think NZ is at much risk of this. Look at our most recent election result. There might be some jealously towards Asian immigrants and new citizens, it's churlish to suggest racism doesn't exist here because it obviously does, but the threat of it being organised and effective, rather than just personal and pervasive is pretty small, and tends to limit itself to people on talk back getting upset with the amount of te reo spoken on Radio NZ, or grumbling about house prices (until the proof showed otherwise). Just another way NZ leads the world in being good global citizens!

Still not sure what this has to do with shares exactly but oh well.

[simla]

Thank you all for putting up with my posts over the last month. I am very happy with the outcome and do feel that the company is strengthened because of it. Many hands make light work.

[winner69]

Market don’t like that Director appointment?

Down 14% since

[Apathy]

Thank you all for putting up with my posts over the last month. I am very happy with the outcome and do feel that the company is strengthened because of it. Many hands make light work.

You are totally misguided - the fact he was 'allowed' the opportunity to resign in the first instance has come back to bite the board - which of course will now be totally dysfunctional. Shareholders will get what they deserve - 9 years in charge with a history of fines, failures and missed targets is not the CV for a Director.

The company will continue to hold the record for longest unprofitable tenure on the NZX for the foreseeable future.

[Apathy]

Market don’t like that Director appointment?

Down 14% since

Market is spot on - the guys writing the cheques have been forced to accommodate a guy who ran it abysmally for almost a decade....

[winner69]

Market is spot on - the guys writing the cheques have been forced to accommodate a guy who ran it abysmally for almost a decade....

Up 20% today ...maybe Barry bought on market?