BLT - Blis Technologies

[simla]

This publicity approach is an intelligent response to the problems any startup company faces: how to increase sales without taking on unsustainable costs, and how to introduce a new product to consumers.

I'm impressed. But it's a pity we won't know the effect until we hear actual sales figures! Selling stuff overseas has the downside that shareholders in NZ just can't get a feel for what the locals might be feeling about a product elsewhere.

[fungus pudding]

This publicity approach is an intelligent response to the problems any startup company faces: how to increase sales without taking on unsustainable costs, and how to introduce a new product to consumers.

I'm impressed. But it's a pity we won't know the effect until we hear actual sales figures! Selling stuff overseas has the downside that shareholders in NZ just can't get a feel for what the locals might be feeling about a product elsewhere.


They will almost certainly be feeling exactly the same as the locals here will.

[simla]

Well, if US sales scaled up per capita on NZ sales, we'd be happy. We'll just have to wait and see, as usual - not only on sales, but when they are achieved, of course.

[Cannibal]

Here's progress: "If you live near a Costco store, you’ll soon start hearing a product called BioGuard® mentioned in the news. Our publicists have been on the phone persuading reporters and producers to do stories about the key ingredient in BioGuard®, BLIS-K12, and as usual, they are making excellent progress." They expect the result of this to be "popping up in news stories around the country" apparently.

http://www.publicity.com/articles/publicity-plays-an-integral-role-in-this-cliente28099s-marketing-plan/

Yep - I have had quite a few examples of it "popping up" recently in The States. This is the latest from The Denver Post -
http://www.denverpost.com/rss/ci_17107612?source=rss

[brucea]

I was checking Amazon today and there were a number of products available through their site ( via health product sellers) which had K12 and M18. I recall searching Amazon a year or so ago and did not find these listed. Has Blis Throatguard ever been sold through TradeMe or is it a pharmacy only product in NZ?

[Cannibal]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Health-beauty/Naturopathy/Herbal/auction-332409656.htm

[brucea]

It is quite difficult to find K12 products on Amazon using the search criteria K12 but you can check out this link
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00435PNSM/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&qid=1295404061&sr=1-1&condition=new

[emearg]

I was checking Amazon today and there were a number of products available through their site ( via health product sellers) which had K12 and M18. I recall searching Amazon a year or so ago and did not find these listed. Has Blis Throatguard ever been sold through TradeMe or is it a pharmacy only product in NZ?

As well as TradeMe Sella and at least one other (forget its name right now) have Blis products.

I wonder how many units they sell of Blis products on line? Not much based on their feedback.

[emearg]

Good to see more Blis products getting good feedback. It suggests repeat sales are likely.

e.g.
http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Advanced-Oral-Hygiene-60-Veggie-Mint-Lozenges/18019/?at=1&p=1&sr=1&fr=&l=ko

[emearg]

Yep - I have had quite a few examples of it "popping up" recently in The States. This is the latest from The Denver Post -
http://www.denverpost.com/rss/ci_17107612?source=rss

I am starting to get sick of all the Blis google alerts I am receiving! My inbox is filling up faster than I can read them! That said it is good to see wider press coverage of the various products, and great to see them being covered in different ways. If one approach doesn't appeal to a potential customer a different approach might.

How many people here take K12 and or M18 on a regular basis?

I know it isn't just me!

[simla]

Thanks for the links to the reviews, Emearg. Definitely positive feedback. Yes, I'm taking K12 and M18.

Meanwhile, this product is advertised here for 1980 New Taiwan Dollars.

http://www.wynlife.com/product_info.php?pid=149
http://www.wynlife.com/images/product/20110114054814_1.jpg

http://www.wynlife.com/images/product/20110114054814_s.jpg

[emearg]

Nicely found Simla

They are a distributer so I think that money is for 30 packs, rather than 30 pills. Do you agree?

Here is an updated products list. Let me know if I have missed any.

K12:
Natures Plus - Adult's Ear, Nose & Throat Lozenges with K12 Probiotics -- Tropical Cherry
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=49254&productnumber=49254&category=28

Natures Plus - Animal Parade® Children's Chewable Inner Ear Support
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=29949&productnumber=29949&category=12

Swanson - Ultra Oral Probiotic
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU519/ItemDetail?n=0

Imagenetix - Bioguard
http://bioguardhealth.com/

Solaray - Oral Flora
http://www.smartbomb.com/slr12698.html

VegLife - Ear, Nose & Throat Shield
http://www.vitaminlife.com/product-exec/product_id/57807/nm/Ear+Nose+and+Throat+Shield

LEF - Advanced Oral Hygiene
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01300/Advanced-Oral-Hygiene.html

Biogenesis - Pro Flora Oral Health Chewables
http://www.bio-genesis.com/productpages/pro-flora-oral-health/pro-flora-oral-health.html

Epoca (Japanese market)
http://www.takachanmarket.com/products/detail.php?product_id=17325

Healthy Directions - Ear, Nose & Throat Defense
http://drsinatra.net/Products2.aspx?ProductID=BL12

True Botanicas - True Defense for Kids™
http://www.truebotanica.com/store/product/TDR1001/TrueDefenseforKids.aspx

True Botanicas - True Defense for Adults
http://www.mytruedefense.com/index.htm

Cultured Care - Probiotic Gum
http://culturedcare.com/

KSS66
http://www.leonbio.com/goods.php?id=2

Bio-Kick Throat Shield Daily (rebranded Blis Throat Guard Daily)
http://www.lab-avenue.com/product_info.php?products_id=37&language=en

Bio-Kick Throat Shield Strong (rebranded Blis Throat Guard Boost)
http://www.lab-avenue.com/product_info.php?products_id=38&language=en

OralHealth PLUS
http://www.phytohealth.com.au/oral-probiotics.html

NOW OralBiotic
http://vitanetonline.com/description/N2921/vitamins/OralBiotic/

E.N.T Biotic
http://www.protocolforlife.com/Products/ProductsAlphabetically/079926.htm

Pro-S Daily Lozenges
http://www.lifeshop2u.com/en/product/hf_17.php

Ora-Probiotic
http://pureencapsulation.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=OPB6

Garden of Life - Raw Cleanse
http://www.iherb.com/Garden-of-Life-RAW-Cleanse-The-Ultimate-Standard-in-Cleansing-and-Detoxification-3-Part-Program/22341?at=1&l=es

Biotect (Japanese market)
http://www.tpml-jp.com/original.html

Carotec K12
http://www.carotec.com/product/400/21

Bio Protect (Japanese Market)
http://www.aysyaonline.com/aysyashop/product04.php?productid=BIOPRO_04

Wynlife All-In-One Probiotics
http://www.wynlife.com/product_info.php?pid=149


KForce

Aktiv-k12


Blis Throat Guard Daily
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Throat-Guard-Daily

Blis Throat Guard Boost
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Throat-Guard-Boost

Blis Travel Guard
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Travel-Guard

Blis Bio Restore
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Bio-Restore

Blis Fresh Breath Kit
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Fresh-Breath-Kit

Blis Rapid Eze Gargle
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Rapid-EZE-Gargle


M18:
Natures Plus - Animal Parade® Tooth Fairy™ Children’s Chewable Dental Probiotic
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=29948&productnumber=29948&category=12

Natures Plus - Adult’s Dental Care Probiotic Lozenges - Peppermint
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=4383&productnumber=4383&category=22


Includes K12 and M18:
Natures Plus - Whole Food Total Body Cleanse with Açai (Vegetarian Capsules)
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?productNumber=1120

Natures Plus - Ultra Lipoic™ Bi-Layered Mini-Tab
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=5224&productnumber=5224&category=29

Natures Plus - Ultra Lipoic™ Bi-Layered Tablets
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=5220&productnumber=5220&category=29

Natures Plus - Ultra Probiotics Vegetarian Capsules
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?productNumber=4385

Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® For Him Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30002&productnumber=30002&category=11

Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® For Her Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30004&productnumber=30004&category=11

Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® Immune Booster Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/whatsnewShell.asp?criteria=search&whatsnew=yes&searchVar=30006&productNumber=30006&category=11

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Tablets
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30711&productnumber=30711&category=15

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Vcaps
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30716&productnumber=30716&category=15

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Mini-Tabs
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30714&productnumber=30714&category=15

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Energy Shake - Tropical Berry (available in two product formats (can or packet))
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/whatsnewShell.asp?criteria=search&whatsnew=yes&searchVar=30748&productNumber=30748&category=15

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Chewables - Tropical Fruit
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30719&productnumber=30719&category=15

Garden of Life - Immune Balance™ Rapid Extra Strength
http://www.gardenoflife.com/ProductsforLife/IMMUNEBALANCE/RapidExtraStrength/tabid/1992/Default.aspx

Natures Plus - Source of Life® Animal Parade® GOLD Children's Chewable Multi - Cherry Flavor
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?productNumber=29931

Natures Plus - Miracle Essentials™ Tablets -- Multi-Vitamin Boosting Supplement
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?productNumber=32962

[simla]

That's a mighty long list. Very impressive. And thanks for putting that up. So what is the sales potential of it, we all ask!

Well, trading revenue was 609k in 2009 and 1238k in 2010. NZ sales went from 146k to 192k, US sales from 325k to 760k, Asia from 0 to 136k, and Australia from 74k to 147k. Growth is happening. We'd like it to grow even faster naturally! Those figures are from the last annual report: http://blis.co.nz/userfiles/file/2010%20Final%20Annual%20Report%20.pdf

As usual, we wait and see what the next results show.


(ps. No, I'm not convinced that the translation is correct about 30 packets for that price. Hard to tell.)

[emearg]

(ps. No, I'm not convinced that the translation is correct about 30 packets for that price. Hard to tell.)

The image you supplied says 30 packets. And yes, the translation also suggests it. For resellers it looks about right. That said, until people start selling it and more importantly people start buying it the price isn't that important. And from Blis's point of view the price doesn't matter at all...

[emearg]

Well, trading revenue was 609k in 2009 and 1238k in 2010.

And 886k in the first half of 2011.


US sales from 325k to 760k

And 682k in the first half of 2011.

[brucea]

Good to see more Blis products getting good feedback. It suggests repeat sales are likely.

e.g.
http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Advanced-Oral-Hygiene-60-Veggie-Mint-Lozenges/18019/?at=1&p=1&sr=1&fr=&l=ko

My strategy is to take 1x Nature's Plus - Dental Care Probiotic w/M18 at night after cleaning and flossing my teeth and 1x Blis Throat Guard in the morning. My experience is that I need to take it regularly and that it takes a while to work it's magic (not like popping a paracetamol tablet). By the way guys, has anyone found the best deal to purchase the Dental Care M18 product from the States? Shipping is expensive, so it would be great if it was available in New Zealand and it is best stored cool. I think I am hooked for life.......

[simla]

I think I am hooked for life.......

Well, if you wouldn't mind just pre-purchasing, say, a million dollars worth now perhaps ... ?

Does the Bioguard taste particularly different to the NZ version?

[brucea]

Well, if you wouldn't mind just pre-purchasing, say, a million dollars worth now perhaps ... ?

Does the Bioguard taste particularly different to the NZ version?

I will give them my Visa number.......

Sorry, I meant to say Blis Throat Guard ....so many names

And I see the BLT share price has fallen out of bed today on the latest news!! Ah well, that's shares for you...

[Nigel]

on the latest news? (you mean 'no news'?). Very light volume today so I wouldn't be too concerned.

[emearg]

on the latest news? (you mean 'no news'?). Very light volume today so I wouldn't be too concerned.

I'm not concerned. Nor will I be excited when the share price increases 21.05% next week when somebody decides to buy a few. Such tiny volumes.

Can somebody please explain to me why somebody would offer to buy 250,000 at 2 cents? Doesn't that tie up their funds so they can't buy anything else? And more importantly won't they miss out on interest by having an offer in play? And really...if Blis was to crash that badly why would you want to own them? I just don't understand this behaviour, but perhaps you do? Thanks

[brucea]

on the latest news? (you mean 'no news'?). Very light volume today so I wouldn't be too concerned.

Yep, I see someone picked up 8,400 at a bargain price of 7.5c. I would buy some more at that price!

[brucea]

This came from a Therabreath email this morning

"Dr. Harold Katz, the inventor of the TheraBreath formula, is now also the spokesperson for BLIS Oral Care Probiotics. Dr. Katz introduced the first TheraBreath Probiotic formula almost a decade ago. He saw the potential of probiotic treatment to revolutionize oral care by attacking the source of problems like cavities and tooth decay before they ever get a chance to happen. This year he becomes the official spokesman for a new and extremely effective type of Probiotic with some very special oral care benefits. (Hint: We plan on making an exciting announcement about oral care probiotics next month. We are also developing a new area of our web site with great information on the latest advances in probiotic treatment.)"
I think us Blis fans know what that product will contain.....

[fungus pudding]

This came from a Therabreath email this morning

"Dr. Harold Katz, the inventor of the TheraBreath formula, is now also the spokesperson for BLIS Oral Care Probiotics. Dr. Katz introduced the first TheraBreath Probiotic formula almost a decade ago. He saw the potential of probiotic treatment to revolutionize oral care by attacking the source of problems like cavities and tooth decay before they ever get a chance to happen. This year he becomes the official spokesman for a new and extremely effective type of Probiotic with some very special oral care benefits. (Hint: We plan on making an exciting announcement about oral care probiotics next month. We are also developing a new area of our web site with great information on the latest advances in probiotic treatment.)"
I think us Blis fans know what that product will contain.....

Follow the lyrics and see what probiotics did for Joe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjNLjBbVd4

[emearg]

Follow the lyrics and see what probiotics did for Joe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjNLjBbVd4

Yeah but imagine what he was like before he took the probiotics! Now THAT is a scarey thought!

And to be honest I think it was the liver that was to blame for his behaviour.

[brucea]

Yeah but imagine what he was like before he took the probiotics! Now THAT is a scarey thought!

And to be honest I think it was the liver that was to blame for his behaviour.

But our Joe is still alive and kicking - that cannot be said for many of his contemporaries..... maybe it was the alcohol that preserved him..

[emearg]

This came from a Therabreath email this morning

"Dr. Harold Katz, the inventor of the TheraBreath formula, is now also the spokesperson for BLIS Oral Care Probiotics. Dr. Katz introduced the first TheraBreath Probiotic formula almost a decade ago. He saw the potential of probiotic treatment to revolutionize oral care by attacking the source of problems like cavities and tooth decay before they ever get a chance to happen. This year he becomes the official spokesman for a new and extremely effective type of Probiotic with some very special oral care benefits. (Hint: We plan on making an exciting announcement about oral care probiotics next month. We are also developing a new area of our web site with great information on the latest advances in probiotic treatment.)"
I think us Blis fans know what that product will contain.....

BlisK12.com has a new video of him being interviewed:
http://www.blisk12.com/oral-probiotics/video-dr-harold-katz-the-bad-breath-guru-on-kcal-ind-in-los-angeles/

In the recent six month report it said that it was anticipated that a new Blis K12 product would be launched by another major national retail chain early in 2011.

The video has Dr Katz talking about a new product (viewers don't get to see it) that is being launched at Walgreen next month.

So this may be the launch that was anticipated?

Wikipedia says Walgreen has 7,563 drugstores across 50 states.

According to 2009 figures at http://www.stores.org/pdf/09Top100chart.pdf Walgreen is the 6th largest retailer in the US. Costco ranks 3rd, and RiteAid 13th

[brucea]

Thanks Emearg, I wonder if it is an M18 product DR Katz is talking about as the article says "a new and extremely effective type of Probiotic with some very special oral care benefits"

[Cannibal]

I guess it has to be M18 - K12 can no longer be described as new. I can't wait. I have always thought that M18 and GRAS are the key to big numbers for this company. It's just a matter of time...

[Bobby_Fischer]

BlisK12.com has a new video of him being interviewed:
http://www.blisk12.com/oral-probiotics/video-dr-harold-katz-the-bad-breath-guru-on-kcal-ind-in-los-angeles/

In the recent six month report it said that it was anticipated that a new Blis K12 product would be launched by another major national retail chain early in 2011.

The video has Dr Katz talking about a new product (viewers don't get to see it) that is being launched at Walgreen next month.

So this may be the launch that was anticipated?

Wikipedia says Walgreen has 7,563 drugstores across 50 states.

According to 2009 figures at http://www.stores.org/pdf/09Top100chart.pdf Walgreen is the 6th largest retailer in the US. Costco ranks 3rd, and RiteAid 13th

Confirmed Here (find "M18"): http://1dental.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/bad-breath-101-katz/

[simla]

This is all quite excruciating. Everywhere we look, we see good news. But there is no way at all to know the scale of the result. Does it add up to a major boost? Or just further progress down the path? How frustrating to see so much progress and yet be unable to estimate the result!

[Cannibal]

I couldn't agree more. It all look super good on so many fronts. Huge product line selling into some of the biggest retailers in the world.

And, as I have oft said, Blis is not the best communicator.

Ignorance is Blis.

[brucea]

I understand the new product is being launched at Walgreen in late March ... maybe it contains both K12 and M18. You guys will have read on this site that I take 1x Nature's Plus Dental Care M18 at night and 1x Throat Guard K12 in the morning, so a single combined product would make sense... 2011 could be an interesting year for BLT.

[Bobby_Fischer]

This is new isn't it? First M18 product on sale not from Nature's Plus?

http://www.houseofnutrition.com/gaofliimbara2.html?ovchn=FRO&ovcpn=Froogle&ovcrn=Garden+Of+Life's+Immune+Balance+Rapid+Extra+ Strength+Citrus+60Lzgs&ovtac=CMP

[emearg]

This is new isn't it? First M18 product on sale not from Nature's Plus?

http://www.houseofnutrition.com/gaofliimbara2.html?ovchn=FRO&ovcpn=Froogle&ovcrn=Garden+Of+Life's+Immune+Balance+Rapid+Extra+ Strength+Citrus+60Lzgs&ovtac=CMP

No it has been around a few months but yes to the best of my knowledge it is the first M18 product not from Nature's Plus.

Keep on looking as I reckon there are other M18 products out there we haven't found yet!

[emearg]

http://newhope360.com/conferences/supply-network-announces-contenders-13th-annual-nutrawards?page=2

[simla]

Yes, M18 certainly is worthy of an award. Great discovery.

The share price is floating around. Nobody much buying, nobody much selling. Seems people believe the good news enough not to sell, but not so much as to actually buy!

[emearg]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21310787

[Bobby_Fischer]

OK Graeme. I "see" your new scientific study with this new M18/K12 product (http://www.lyf.com/_assets/docs/lyf_ichoice_fact_sheets.pdf) and "raise" you with what looks like that something new Dr Katz is working on (release of his earlier portended product "TheraBreath Multi Symptom Probiotics" ??? - http://www.proprobiotics.com).

[simla]

"LYF is a network marketing company ..." http://www.lyf.com/opportunity/ That's a whole new marketing approach again. More marketing's always good. Well spotted, Bobby.

[simla]

The next quarterly report for Imagenetix: http://www.edgar-online.com/bin/cobrand/?doc=A-839441-0001144204-11-009869

It reports mass market sales (Costco etc) as being US$1.5m for the quarter, compared to $1.1m for the same quarter last year. Celadrin presumably still dominates their sales, but again they give no separate detail of how Bioguard is selling.

This would appear to paint another picture of incremental growth for Blis in this market, rather than any huge surge, but very hard to read anything certain into it, given the lack of any detail on Bioguard. Incremental growth is fine for Blis, especially if it is happening across all the outlets for K12 and M18. The question for the last year has been how the incremental growth in sales holds up against the incremental growth in expansion costs. If you read this report, and earlier ones, it is clear that Imagenetix, like Blis, are also investing heavily now for sales growth later. It's a very sensible strategy but hard for shareholders to judge what the short term future will hold accordingly.

[simla]

My hygienist just waxed lyrical (again) about how great my gums and teeth are. Very little plaque, and suspiciously little tartar (calcified plaque). She mentioned several times what a great job I do at cleaning my teeth. I couldn't quite bring myself to admit that I only clean them once or twice a week now. They just don't seem to need it since I've been using the M18 for 6 months, and the K12 for years.

K12 and M18 are really superb products. The only barrier here is marketing and market acceptance (and competition, naturally). A little ray of sunshine in that Imagenetix report said, "We anticipate this [cost of goods sold] percentage to decrease as a result of continued mass market penetration and a reduction in the promotional programs." That might imply they feel they are gaining market penetration - but for Celadrin or Bioguard or both, we don't know.

[simla]

http://www.sunherald.com/2011/02/25/2893822/imagenetix-inc-reports-third-quarter.html

"Commenting on the results of the third quarter, Mr. William Spencer, Imagenetix Chief Executive Officer said: ... quarterly sales to the mass market segment increased by 66% for the quarter ...a significant increase in advertising and sales promotions to introduce consumers to our product line that now reaches nation-wide for Celadrin softgels and BioGuard, and throughout the west for Celadrin cream. We held many product demonstrations, offered manufacturers rebates and advertised in both print and national television media. We recognize this to be the most effective way to increase product exposure and impact sales and product recognition over the long term...."

[blissfool]

My hygienist just waxed lyrical (again) about how great my gums and teeth are. Very little plaque, and suspiciously little tartar (calcified plaque). She mentioned several times what a great job I do at cleaning my teeth. I couldn't quite bring myself to admit that I only clean them once or twice a week now. They just don't seem to need it since I've been using the M18 for 6 months, and the K12 for years.

K12 and M18 are really superb products. The only barrier here is marketing and market acceptance (and competition, naturally). A little ray of sunshine in that Imagenetix report said, "We anticipate this [cost of goods sold] percentage to decrease as a result of continued mass market penetration and a reduction in the promotional programs." That might imply they feel they are gaining market penetration - but for Celadrin or Bioguard or both, we don't know.


Hey Simla

Can you send an old bugger a link where to buy M18, all the sites I found with Natures Plus M18 only delivered in the states. I'm pretty keen to try this potion as the other Bliss products have all worked for me. Much appreciated.

[brucea]

Hey Simla

Can you send an old bugger a link where to buy M18, all the sites I found with Natures Plus M18 only delivered in the states. I'm pretty keen to try this potion as the other Bliss products have all worked for me. Much appreciated.

Hi there - I got my last delivery through Amazon.com from iBuyHerb, but the postage was quite expensive, eg
2 x Item(s) Subtotal: NZD 45.33
Shipping & Handling: NZD 41.72 !!!!!! (another supplier whose name escapes me that I bought from earlier in the year worked out around NZD $32 per bottle incl. postage)
- Simla might have a cheaper source. It would pay to get several bottles to reduce average cost per bottle as postage would be much the same. A business opportunity here maybe for you blissfool .....

[pietrade]

I've had a couple of lots of Natures Plus - Adult's Dental Care Probiotic Lozenges with M18. The last delivery was for 3 x packs of 60 lozenges.
Cost for the 3 packs was US$57.27 + US$15.60 post. These were supplied by Vitaminlife.com. Seem to be good value.

[simla]

It was Vitaminlife for me too, I think.

The share price is languishing (as it has done each February I seem to recall). However, I personally can't see that the maths of Blis has changed any. To make a profit, you basically need (a) one or more good products; (b) a sustainable cost of goods sold; (c) good distribution channels; (d) good marketing; (e) good management to keep the company going to the right place; and (f) sufficient cash to stay the course. No?

Well, Blis still seems to me to have all of that going for it. Compared to a year ago: (a) K12 is still a good product, and we understand that M18 is being picked up, although we haven't seen the products much ourselves; (b) cost of goods sold only comes out yearly, but was reported as 514k for sales of 1,238k in last year's report, seems fine; (c) distributions channels have improved with nationwide costco and riteaid at least; (d) marketing can obviously grow quite a lot yet with enough cash but has definitely had a good boost compared to the previous year; (e) management remains very impressive; and (f) working capital was reported as 2519k in September versus 3166k the previous March, which still seems adequate, if sales are in fact picking up.

Basically, we are all a little nervous because GRAS and nationwide sales did not happen last year as was expected, which is where we still hope for good progress. But we are told that GRAS is sill expected soon, and nationwide sales have started.

I haven't mentioned the obvious point: (g) great sales revenues. Well, that's obviously where investors earn their keep. Is that going to happen or not, and when? If we already had that as well, the share price would be much higher.

That's all just my view, of course. As a shareholder, I obviously want to see things that way. But it nevertheless still makes a lot of sense to me. What do others think?

[neopoleII]

anyone keen on a group purchase to reduce costs?
i am keen to try a bottle of m18.
am happy to co-buy with someone if interested

[blissfool]

I've had a couple of lots of Natures Plus - Adult's Dental Care Probiotic Lozenges with M18. The last delivery was for 3 x packs of 60 lozenges.
Cost for the 3 packs was US$57.27 + US$15.60 post. These were supplied by Vitaminlife.com. Seem to be good value.

Thanks all for your help, order placed, looking forward to trailing M18. I noticed when looking at both the costco and riteaid sites there was no reviews from consumers, some of you fans should add your enthusatic opinions. There is no better recomendation then someone who is converted, may help sales volumes!!!

[emearg]

They are just about giving it away at Costco!
$7.99 after $8 OFF
BioGuard® Advanced Probiotic Protection

[Nigel]

I had a killer sore throat on Wednesday night / Thursday. Strepsils weren't providing any relief. Bought some Throat Guard on Friday, took four that day. Throat better the next day. Coincidence? Or maybe the stuff works :)

[emearg]

http://www.renewlife.com/blog/oral-probiotics-may-soon-be-a-part-of-optimum-oral-health/

Wow!!! Who knew?? ;)

[emearg]

Good to see Blis Tech getting into the Facebook swing of things:
http://www.facebook.com/BLISTechnologiesLtd

CulturedCare are even more onto it!
http://www.facebook.com/CulturedCare.Probiotics

[simla]

Thanks for all that, Emearg. Be nice to know what the Costco price meant. Perhaps they're moving stock at the end of winter, but the last results from them specifically said they were doing a lot of price promotion to establish long term sales, so who knows. It's the end of the best time of year to attract new oral probiotic users, so it would be logical to make the extra effort now.

The Renew Life link said, "Lozenges will soon be available without a prescription." Do they mean they will be bringing out a product themselves shortly? I couldn't find any estimate of their coverage, but their US store locator seemed to be very well populated, seemingly with health/vitamin type stores on the whole. Any new product must be an interesting marketing proposition for them with so very many stores. But a reasonable first-time order for Blis if they do bring out a product?

Nigel, good about your throat. The Blisk12 website says, "Instead of just crowding out the bad bacteria, which is the way most probiotics work, BLIS K12 is a specific strain of S. salivarius that produces antimicrobial substances (BLIS) that target and attack the pathogens associated with sore throats, and ear and respiratory infections." http://www.blisk12.com/health-benefits/

[brucea]

Thanks too emearg for your links. It is sad and ironic that in a country where M18 was developed there are continuing dental health issues with NZ children http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10710408
Quote "The dental health of young children continues to be among the worst in the developed world, figures reveal.......The Government has spent $417 million on the problem since 2007 but the figures have shown little improvement"
And this is despite fluoridation and fancy toothpaste brands claiming they provide superior protection! Let's hope in the future that the widespread introduction of M18 products in NZ is effective in improving the dental well-being of our children.

[pietrade]

They are just about giving it away at Costco!
$7.99 after $8 OFF
BioGuard® Advanced Probiotic Protection

Do you have a link to this? Thanks in advance.

[emearg]

Do you have a link to this? Thanks in advance.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11597325&search=`bioguard&topnav=&Mo=0&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode%20matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=`bioguard&Ntt=`bioguard&No=0&Nty=1&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial

[fungus pudding]

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11597325&search=`bioguard&topnav=&Mo=0&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode%20matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=`bioguard&Ntt=`bioguard&No=0&Nty=1&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial


Yuk! Try this:
http://tinyurl.com/4fqc9g2

[simla]

Let's hope in the future that the widespread introduction of M18 products in NZ is effective in improving the dental well-being of our children.

Here, here, Brucea. One of the things I love about Blis is that the products really are needed and useful.

[simla]

Now, here's an interesting argument maybe, although rather of historic note now.

Reviewing the 2010 report, it reconciled cash flow on page 38 like so: Declared net p&l deficit for the year 482,413, adjusted for non-cash items (amortisation etc)= actual cash net deficit 156,374. But ... that deficit included preference dividends of 269,589. Since I personally regard the preference dividends as after profit & loss (regardless of any accounting standards, it's a moot point that it is debt servicing since the debt disappears next year, if you ask me) you might view the cash net deficit as actually a cash surplus of 269,589 - 156,374, or $113,215 cash surplus for the year from operations. Of course, that's before dividends, and before adjusting for working capital movements (eg. accounts receivable) and not including capitalised expenses (research etc).

Okay, that's perhaps a bit convoluted, and not quite according to accounting standards. But nevertheless, we might feel good at the thought that they perhaps ran a cash surplus from operations of $113k, even including the fairly heavy expansion expenses they were running. And yes, the company had plenty of other capitalised cash expenses (a further 824k according to page 23), so that hardly made it a cash cow. But it fits with my interpretation that the company has a profitable business running already that has been able to carry the expansion costs, even if not the ongoing research investments and pref dividends.

[simla]

That the company had capitalised expenses of $824k is definite food for thought. The notes on p 23 tell us they only do that if the product (a) can be finished for sale; (b) they intend to sell it; (c) they have the ability to sell it; (d) assessed future economic benefit; (e) sufficient resource and money to finish it; (f) ability to reliably measure cost of development. (Those are straight from the NZ accounting standards, I think.) Well, we've seen K12, and we've seen M18. Is this yet another product? Or development of formulations perhaps. Either way, those standards would seem to require their thinking it's profitable, whatever it is.

The future amortisation of that expense is difficult to deal with conceptually. That 824k in research cost is not in that year's p&l because it is an investment in future income. Which is why you have to offset the amortisation as an expense in future against that future income. But it is not an actual cash expense in future either, as nothing needs paying then. The p&l will be declared lower in future, but any cash coming in from sales will be quite real.

So, is this the shareholder in me creating good interpretations? Or do people agree with any of it? Lots of discussion here from time to time, but nobody expressing any optimism? Or otherwise?

[pietrade]

Yuk! Try this:
http://tinyurl.com/4fqc9g2

Thanks for that - however I find that Costco do not ship goods other than to USA or Canada !!!??? Otherwise it's a great price for the M18.

[simla]

Bioguard is K12, not M18. M18 is only available in these products as far as we've seen, plus a bunch of other Nature's Plus products in combination with a lot of stuff. We're expecting M18 to be in a number of other products following the "launch" last year, but have yet to spot any on the net.

Natures Plus - Animal Parade® Tooth Fairy™ Children’s Chewable Dental Probiotic http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=29948&productnumber=29948&category=12
Natures Plus - Adult’s Dental Care Probiotic Lozenges - Peppermint http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=4383&productnumber=4383&category=22
Garden of Life - Immune Balance™ Rapid Extra Strength http://www.gardenoflife.com/ProductsforLife/IMMUNEBALANCE/RapidExtraStrength/tabid/1992/Default.aspx

However, this one is about to join the fray by the look of it. It is not listed on the Therabreath website yet, but is probably going to be on Walgreens to judge by this link from Emearg. http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5122-BLT-(Blis)&p=334012&viewfull=1#post334012 , in late March according to this link from Brucea http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5122-BLT-(Blis)&p=334233&viewfull=1#post334233.

http://www.blisk12.com/news/therabreath-multi/
http://www.blisk12.com/wp-content/themes/echoes-packed/echoes/timthumb.php?src=http://www.blisk12.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/TheraBreath1.jpg&h=0&w=400&zc=1&q=72

[simla]

Just a few sights on the net. This site currently says it can find:

98 internet sites selling Blis K12 http://www.thefind.com/search?query=blis+k12#page=1
95 sites selling salivarius k12 http://www.thefind.com/search?query=salivarius+k12#page=1
11 sites selling Bioguard Advanced http://www.thefind.com/search?query=bioguard+advanced
16 sites selling salivarius m18 http://www.thefind.com/search?query=salivarius+m18
34 sites selling Blis K12m18 (ie Garden of Life) http://www.thefind.com/search?query=blis+k12m18

Here's CulturedCare Gum being sold by somebody on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004PYZ74Q/ref=asc_df_B004PYZ74Q1456724?tag=thefind0012827-20&creative=395261&creativeASIN=B004PYZ74Q&linkCode=asn

You'll gather I think it's time we reminded ourselves that things are happening.

[brucea]

Thanks Simla for the links - it is a pity that M18 products are not available in NZ yet

[simla]

What a curious posting on Blis's facebook page today (around lunchtime on Thursay 10 March.) It has a smiley face anyway: http://www.facebook.com/BLISTechnologiesLtd?filter=2

"BLIS Technologies Limited Watch the space tomorrow friends. We have a special announcement :)"

[Nigel]

New product? Revenue milestone? New distributor? Maybe a really neat giveaway, like a free BLIS K12 Fresh Breath Kit. We'll have to wait and see (I'm hoping for the Fresh Breath Kit - it is a great product).

[simla]

Good guess, Nigel. "Friends, we are giving away one free BLIS K12 Fresh Breath Kit.". One!! Facebook sure is something else. Sorry to have raised people's interest here over something like that.

[Nigel]

Confession: I may have seen the announcement on Facebook before I did my last post.

[emearg]

Good to see Blis getting in on the Facebook thing. As much as some may hate it (I'm in the don't like but don't hate camp), it is a viable way to cheaply communicate with potential/actual customers. CulturedCare have been using Facebook very effectively (in my opinion) for some time now.

[simla]

I'm sure you're right, Emearg, but it's really quite complex. We were in the mall this morning, and it was pretty deserted. Statistics suggest that maybe half of sales are online now, although you wonder how accurate those sort of claims are.

I try to buy things locally so that we still have shops to go to. But the shops are responding to the falloff in sales by not stocking as many things, and we came away without something that we had been able to buy at the mall a year ago, despite looking in several places. But once the shops stop stocking what people want, to save money in "dead" stock, the falloff will only accelerate as people turn to the net instead.

This all seems inevitable, of course. There is a greater range on the net anyway - which is why I buy ebooks, for example, so I can get books I can't get at the mall. I went to the book shop this morning, but found myself thinking I preferred ebooks anyway, and bought little even though I was intending to support them.

It's all so inevitable. Who knows where it will end.

But for places like Blis, it raises interesting questions on how to get noticed on the net - because people typically just keep visiting the same old places on the net. Personally I find it quite easy to see LESS of things on the net instead of more, simply because you don't know where to look, so you don't. Other people's links are my most trusted source. But where would I be to see someone linking to Blis?

So how does a new product like Blis gain attention on the net?

Culturedcare did pretty well, as you say, using twitter and facebook, in combination with printed media. Here is the guy who apparently planned the internet campaign for them http://www.socialnature.ca/how-to-host-a-successful-twitter-giveaway-or-contest and what he says is important. These were the rules of their campaign http://culturedcare.com/freegum/ (including fine print at the bottom.)

Blis are aware of the need to connect, hence their US news campaign over the winter and their new website (and their selling through many established brands, to piggy back on their marketing channels.)

Experimenting with facebook is good too, although perhaps they could read that article by the guy who did culturedcare - I'm not sure that a single bottle for an ever increasing list of potential winners is exactly what he means by "make it valuable". (If someone at Blis happens to be reading this, why not increase it to 10 winners straight away, and add a bottle of K12 to the prize too? And culturedcare required people to retweet a marketing message, as I recall, rather than just like, which I thought was quite clever? Like may also be effective, but the link must then contain a marketing message to be any use?) But Blis has got to start somewhere, so that's good, and I wish them luck. As you say, it's got to be the start of something good.


ps. My best attempts to generate a little discussion here of the situation is falling on infertile ground so far. I wouldn't care, except that the share price implies people are not particularly optimistic. That confuses me, as things continue to look very promising to me. The last report, for example, did not show a profit, but was nevertheless full of quite good news as I read it, and recently reread it. The current share price only requires a profit of half a million sometime in the next year or two. Do we really think that is all that is going to happen here?

[emearg]

Don't feel too ignored Simla. I just feel there isn't that much that needs discussing. I keep monitoring progress, but I really just think time is what is required with Blis now and us talking about it isn't going to make it happen any quicker. I do enjoy reading your posts, and those of others.

I'm very optimist.

I don't expect a profit of half a million in the next year. A small profit is very possible. And I have no idea what kind of revenue/expenses Blis will have two years out so I won't comment on how much their profit could be in two years time.

[simla]

That's quite interesting, Emearg. But consider: while the company obviously has very little control over the actual sales revenue (apart from constantly trying to push sales in any way it can), yet it must also be fairly keen to become cash flow positive. Then so long as they continue to run capitalised expenses, which are not included in the p & l, then wouldn't that effectively make them keen to turn a fairly pleasant declared profit - as anything less would not be cash flow positive after paying for capitalised expenses?

That in turn would presumably make them keen to keep a tight rein on expenditure, despite a very obvious case to keep investing in expansion? I say that because the apparent situation at present seems not to be that the sales revenue isn't growing, but that the company has an obvious logical case to continue paying for expansion at the same time. It is recognition of that that probably makes us cautious of declared profit. But the accounting situation I've just discussed might suggest a half million profit may well be in the current objectives, given the size of capitalised expenses last year?

Of course, objectives and achievable outcomes are always two different things! They are launching new product concepts into a very difficult world financial climate. They're doing an excellent job, but it's still hard.

[simla]

I would also remember that Blis has a lot of irons in the fire, so there is the potential for payback from various sources. I'm sticking with my fractal view, that each bit does its own thing at first, but that eventually an overall trend emerges as more and more pieces of the puzzle cease to be random. I think I'm probably more optimistic than you in the shorter term, although I agree the field is wide open.

[Nigel]

I'm optimistic Simla; we're just starved of news of late. When are the next results due? Whatever happened to the Nestle arrangement?

[Chippie]

Simla, I am very optimistic about BLT. I have a bunch of shares and do not plan to sell any in the near future. Heaps of upside and not much downside. Go BLT!

[simla]

Thanks guys. Particularly interesting to discover Emearg and I are looking for somewhat different outcomes this next result (due late May probably). Blis has so many irons in the fire that I think it is distinctly possible that sales revenue will be quite acceptable, even if any one source doesn't leap up dramatically - there has been quite a bit of promotion going on, and the market is into it's 2nd year meaning possible growth, and M18 presumably has added to sales, plus I remain hopeful that Asia will have developed (I wish I could understand what path to expect there). Expansion costs are obviously quite a wildcard too, but I've explained why I believe it possible that the company may want to achieve a profit of at least a half million before opening the taps too much wider on cash. GRAS costs may not have given them much choice, of course. There is absolutely no way of picking the result however, and we'll find out in a couple of months.

[brucea]

When I talk to friends about Blis I usually find there is little brand awareness of their products. Just recently a friend asked me about probiotics and whether they would be useful for his dry throat and cough as he could not get relief from the usual medications. I suggested (of course!) that he try Blis Throatguard and he is really pleased with the results, and said he had never heard of K12 before this. Although word of mouth is important in spreading the news about the usefulness of Blis K12, I still think they need a celebrity endorsement to catch the public's attention. Maybe that is in the long term strategy for advertising the product overseas. And no, Simla and Emearg, I am not famous enough to fit the bill.....

[emearg]

At BLIS we have BLIS K12 Throat Guard Daily that has friendly bacteria that attacks the nasty organisms at the source of entry...the oral cavity (mouth). Contact: info@blis.co.nz and Quote FB03022011 for an introductory offer.

[THEONE]

BLIS Technologies and TheraBreath have spent the last year developing a new oral care probiotic using both BLIS SK12 and the new M18 strains. Both of these strains show extreme promise in terms of selective efficacy against particular strains of hostile bacteria (including variants of S. Mutans). This new probiotic is a kit with dosing coming in stick pack form. Before attempting to colonize, the kit includes TheraBreath Toothpaste to prepare the oral cavity for colonization (the TheraBreath product is BASIC and reduces mouth acidity).

The kit will be available at Walgreens exclusively starting this April. There will be a one week special during which the $24.99 kit will be available for only $9.99. If you are interested in trying this type of probiotic product I highly recommend you check your Walgreens store in the next few weeks and grab a kit while they are on this introductory special.

Updated science and more details about the product is and will be available on the TheraBreath website. I don't monitor this board regularly so please feel free to visit our website to learn more.

FROM http://www.badbreathhalitosis.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=33319

Its also interesting looking at the annual reports of other probiotic companies eg http://chn-biotics.com/
Net sales in 3rd quarter 32 million, mostly selling to China

Hi Simla, have you any rough calculations on what you think blis could probably at least achieve?
I enjoy reading your thoughtful posts and others.

I remember reading a few years ago they were targeting sales of 20 million ?, it was in a rights issue document

[simla]

Hi Simla, have you any rough calculations on what you think blis could probably at least achieve?

Absolutely no knowing!!! But, hey, here's some guesses anyway:

Income this half:

US - 700k to 1600k (winter, 2nd year sales for many products, nationwide Costco, Riteaid, M18 presales? Walgreens presales) (previous halves were: 392, 682)
Asia - 50k to 400k
NZ - 60k to 90k (summer)
Aus - 60k to 100k
Total Sales - 870k to 2190k

Contract - 100k to 400k
Interest - 100k
Other - 50k

Total Revenue - 1120k to 2740 Plus First Half revenue - 1166k gives Full year revenue - 2286k to 3906k

Costs: 1300k to 1900k (GRAS trials and publicity costs at least) plus First half costs: 1308k gives Full year costs: 2608k to 3208k

Thus full year operating profit before prefs and amortisation (and capitalised expenses): maybe somewhere between a loss of 920k and ... a profit of 1300k !! (Amortisation and prefs for year, say 520k)

My personal random guess? 3200 full, less 2800 full, equals 400 profit before prefs and amortisation. I'm thus guessing that the cost of the GRAS trials will have prevented anything too significant, after sales grew strongly but costs had to too. We'd be in for a nice surprise if costs were strongly contained or if US sales did pretty well, or maybe Asia made some progress. But the economy is rough in the US. Basically it's pretty wide open though.

So that's my TOTAL GUESS !! Anyone else want to guess?

[blissfool]

Well simila that is a wide degree for margin of error, however I think your assesement is alot closer to the mark then my prediction of a break through profit in September.

The big unknown is how sales traveled thru the last 6 months in a challanging economic enviroment.

Great product, a good plan and leader, however the lack of communication and updates to the market is frustrating. BLT seems to have a populus PR policy and deliver only good news between reporting dates, I tend to think that no news speaks for itself.

Love to be proved wrong and look forward to my faith in the product being reflected in the share price

[simla]

Here's a little peek behind the curtain - a job advert for some graphic work for KForce. An interesting read. http://jobs.designcrowd.com/job.aspx?id=8087

And here's a pamphlet for M18 I haven't seen before, linked to on that page. http://www.designcrowd.com/file.aspx?fileLocation=blism18_usv30.pdf

I see someone here is active on the Bad Breath forum! Effective on the whole I'd have said so far, by sticking to the clear and logical. I wonder how many people see that forum. Good on you for giving it a go. http://www.badbreathhalitosis.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3529&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45

Also, the giveaways gather pace on the Blis facebook page http://en-gb.facebook.com/BLISTechnologiesLtd I'm not on facebook, so I can't see what gets posted on the "like" facebook pages after they click like, as they all have their privacy screens up. Can someone on facebook tell me whether this is creating advertising on those pages? And how many people would be able to access that stuff behind the privacy screens? I presume the entire post that they like gets duplicated on the other pages, but I'm not sure.

[simla]

I've just clicked that the KForce link above mentions a new product for M18. It says, "KFORCE (with BLIS M18 "oralguard" (New Product)". Presumably we'll see that in a while.

[brucea]

Thanks Simla for the links - the one http://jobs.designcrowd.com/job.aspx?id=8087 gives another link to download a brochure on K12 which says on page 4 under the heading Product Applications
"And a range of functional food applications such as:
• Yogurt
• Ice cream
• Others"
VERY interesting comment given the current GRAS application .......

[simla]

"Walgreen [The largest U.S. drugstore operator] to spend about $429M for drugstore.com ... The acquisition will add about 60,000 products to Walgreen's online offerings ... Walgreen has said those products are an important part of its strategy ... drugstore.com is the third largest online health and beauty retailer, and the 46th-largest online retailer overall ... Walgreen is the 68th-largest online retailer ... the deal [is] expected to close by the end of June" http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Walgreen-to-spend-about-429M-apf-1062433316.html

Those products include Nature's Plus and LEF plus a couple of other Blis products (which are also on the Riteaid Online Store site.) Who knows what effect these online listings have. But another step forward, and an interesting snippet on how the retailers are thinking.

[winner69]

The good news with the bad an old trick

But the earnings update (suppose it is not ernings if it has a - in front of it) was ashocker.

Wonder what a 'material deterioration' really means? The announcement was a bit short on numbers eh even though the year has basically finished .... methinks they have not been totally up front with you guys

But take heart -there are adequate level of cash reserves so you won't be asked for more dosh ... soon anyway

[simla]

Well, I asked if anyone else wanted to take a guess on current revenues!

Yes, definitely disappointing. As I read that, selling nationwide in chain stores has not produced a big growth in sales OR it did but forward orders petered out at the same time OR that forward orders were too high first half and then didn't sell as much as hoped, needing less replacement orders. Either way, total revenue similar to last year is below my lowest guess of a few days ago.

Either way, we are left with the same question: how big is the market for K12 M18? Is more marketing needed OR is the American market under enormous siege OR is it less naturally saleable than we think? Myself, I would put this down to the state of the American markets. Fully a third of US mortgages are underwater at present, and a large bank has predicted that will be half by the end of the year. That is a seriously depressed economy.

Pretty disappointing too that the Nestle baby food is apparently off. The suggestion seemed to be that they tested an earlier version of Blis that wasn't as stable as the current version? Nestle can't be too unhappy, though, if they have signed up for several more years work. That's income for the present at least, too.

In either event, Blis must now cut it's cloth more tightly again. No comment on whether GRAS is progressing satisfactorily, so no knowing where costs are there. However, the costs of that have been incurred as we've been discussing for a while.

Blis still has many useful irons in the fire, and the underlying cost of goods sold remains good too. This stage of the game is balancing expansion costs against income, and this would seem to suggest that the costs got ahead of the income this time around, which is unfortunate. GRAS could still be a major boost, but no news given on that.

Anyway, far better to know where we stand at least. It looks like the coming year will be uncertain too. I sure wish we could have more progress in Asia, as the state of the US consumer market is not inspiring.

What a pity.

[Nigel]

Yeah, not the great news we were hoping for. This time last year the shareprice was 11-12 cents, we're now sitting at 8 cents. In theory (through an absence of positive news) the decline in price over the last 12 months has already accounted for a poorer result, removing the need for a sell off post this announcement. But it means we'll have to wait even longer for the good news and the profits to come along. How much patience does everyone have?

[simla]

How much patience does everyone have?

Yes, that's the thing. No matter where this goes next, it's hard to see it happening in a hurry. It's not necessarily especially surprising, given the extreme gloom permeating the world for the last few months, but nevertheless very disappointing. And, as Winner69 says, the final bottom line might be a bit of a jolt.

[winner69]

Yes, that's the thing. No matter where this goes next, it's hard to see it happening in a hurry. It's not necessarily especially surprising, given the extreme gloom permeating the world for the last few months, but nevertheless very disappointing. And, as Winner69 says, the final bottom line might be a bit of a jolt.

Still think it strange that no numbers were mentioned seeing the year has essentially ended .... nothing except a 'material deterioation' .... is thsi good shareholder communication and transparency?

Still paying the divie on the prefs .... that'll take a bit of cash out .... wonder what 2nd half cash burn was? .... could be interesting set of numbers

Just as well you guys don't want to sell ... I'd say that bidder at 4.8 is taking a bit of brave punt ... could be more downside even from that level

[simla]

It ain't over till the fat lady sings, Winner69!

Blis will pay off in the end unless it actually goes broke. They have a good underlying cost of goods sold, and actual markets bringing in cash. Yes, they certainly have to watch their step from here, no questions asked. Yes, very disappointing. Yes, Blis remains a risk stock. And yes, the final numbers may not be a lot of fun to read with that level of revenue.

But I don't read this as being boxed into a corner, just a harder place than it was before. Still with a future though. Still new products coming on the market. Still a good distribution structure. Still with good products to sell.

[emearg]

Still with good products to sell.

Yes but the key to success is people buying the good products.

I have been seriously wondering the past few months if BioGuard has been selling. The combination of only 12 reviews and the large discounts offered (currently half price) suggests they are having problems selling the product. It fell off the Costco website for over a week recently too. I presumed it had been removed based on poor sales, but it has come back online.

I must say I have been wondering for about a year how significant the Nestle thing would have been? What countries could they have sold the product in? Not the US until GRAS is granted. Not Europe. Not in most of Asia. In Aussi and NZ yes for sure. But that is only approx 25 million people. Pretty small beer for Nestle. I did wonder if Nestle would provide resources to fast track approval to have K12 listed as an ingredient, but let's face it, even fast tracked these things move slowly and the main bottle neck is the technical expertise to support the applications. But perhaps Nestle could have plugged that hole?

Simla often makes the point about the cost of goods sold. I agree and think this is hugely important. If and when scale is achieved Blis will be a cash cow.

All in all today was a bad day but not all is lost. Barry is shrewd, and Frutatrom are capable. We need to be patient. Slightly more so than I thought, but only slightly.

[simla]

You certainly take the honours this time, Emearg. You were more cautious than me and you were right. Well done.

Now we all face the task of trying to form a new view in our heads of where this will go. As Winner69 says, cash must have been used. More news to come with the actual results, which may yet have other news to surprise us.

[emearg]

Did somebody mention recently they can see BioGuard on RiteAid's website? Can a link be posted please?

[keepitsimple]

Blis has good products to sell good for peoples health but not enough people buy it yet mcdonalds and cocacola sell billians worth of product that i think is not good for healthy living .The only difference with these companies is advertising .Ask100 people if they know about blis products and you will get a blank stare from 99 of them.The company needs a PR department not just a bunch of staid scientists.

[blissfool]

Well done to Barry and the Bliss team and getting on the front foot with tough news, (never easy) hopefully this is a precurser to more frequent commmunication. Retail is a tough gig and the USA economy (our big hope this year) is still somewhat of a basket case, trying to get a new product of the ground was always going to be challanging. I share the sentiment with others in this forum and will be keeping the faith, it is a very good product and the leadership and strategy is good, just need some other ingredients to go our way.

Someone on this site said they had introduced a 100 people to bliss, I will take up that challange as well this year and promote this amoungst people I know. One of you more facebook savy people, should come up with "bliss this stuff works" and lets see if we can make it a huge hit, help the company we believe in generate sales.
Romantic notion I know, but how knows.

Tough times provide new challanges.

[fungus pudding]

Blis has good products to sell good for peoples health but not enough people buy it yet mcdonalds and cocacola sell billians worth of product that i think is not good for healthy living .The only difference with these companies is advertising.

That's far from the only difference.

[emearg]

Therabreath announcing their new K12 and M18 product:
http://blog.therabreath.com/2011/03/a-major-announcement-from-dr-katz/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+therabreath%2FfqpT+%28Dr.+Kat z+Bad+Breath+Blog%29

I note that 6,200 people like Therabreath on Facebook. They have announced the product on Facebook as well.

[Scuffer]

No good having all this stuff to sell if it doesn't sell, they need to change their gameplan otherwise they won't exist soon.

[keepitsimple]

here here totaly agree

[simla]

The bottleneck does seem to be sales. Everything else is remarkably on plan, but some change of plan in sales looks like a good idea.

[emearg]

The bottleneck does seem to be sales. Everything else is remarkably on plan, but some change of plan in sales looks like a good idea.

Really?

Is Nestle remarkably on plan?
Is GRAS remarkably on plan?
Is achieving the 2007 projections remarkably on plan?
Is getting into Europe remarkably on plan?

If the plan was decided at morning tea this morning then yes they are remarkably on plan, but if you look back at various versions of the plan over the past few years they are not remarkably on plan.

And yes the only bottle neck that really matters is a lack of sales!!

[emearg]

That's far from the only difference.

FP is depressingly on the mark here!!

[simla]

Really?

Is Nestle remarkably on plan?
Is GRAS remarkably on plan?
Is achieving the 2007 projections remarkably on plan?
Is getting into Europe remarkably on plan?

If the plan was decided at morning tea this morning then yes they are remarkably on plan, but if you look back at various versions of the plan over the past few years they are not remarkably on plan.

And yes the only bottle neck that really matters is a lack of sales!!

Yes, most of the plan is remarkably on track. There is no doubt that the sales situation is a huge problem, and we certainly hope the company is looking very hard at it. But the rest? Yes, it is going remarkably well. Nestle's infant food was definitely a disappointment, but they're coming back for more, and meanwhile BLT has signed up some serious outlets which we did not know about at the start of Nestle. We have no idea where GRAS is unfortunately, but last heard the company was still expecting to pull it off.

Certainly the regulatory situation around the world has got very difficult, upsetting far more companies than Blis if you read around the net. Blis have signalled this to us each report, but probably we could have read more into that than we possibly did. GRAS remains unknown, certainly delayed and more expensive. Europe is a closed book to virtually everybody. I read recently that Europe had not approved a single probiotic's health claims yet from anyone. A Canadian probiotics scientist on Radio NZ this week was absolutely scathing of regulatory hurdles around the world for probiotics, so it's not just Blis.

But despite that, enormous things have been achieved by the company to date. Manufacturers around the world have taken up the product, and it is for sale in presumably thousands of shops now. Money was raised and a plan proposed and that plan mostly put in place. And M18 has been launched. It has been an enormous undertaking.

What hasn't worked yet is the revenue. A very big matter, but nevertheless the only real upset in everything to date. If revenue had come through this time, we wouldn't be sitting here claiming everything was going wrong.

I'm totally with you that the sales situation needs fixing urgently, but let's not use that as an opportunity to claim that everything's going wrong, because that simply is not true. It's one single thing the company has to fix, which gives them a fair chance. Yes, a lot rides on it as far as we can tell.

[simla]

I say "remarkably" because hardly anything in this world ever goes according to plan. Look what a total mess most of the world is at present! Blis may have a serious problem on its hands with sales, but it is pretty remarkable that it hasn't been besieged with problems as it has battled it's way through a world falling apart at the seams. I remain grateful for all the work Blis has done. Getting the customers to want to buy the product is an unfortunate hurdle to remain, but it is about the only hurdle Blis has left to cross, which is ... remarkable. I'm sure their minds are sorely focused on it.

[Nigel]

I think the product is great. Good to see the new Therabreath product launched too. There is a growing trend towards probiotics, however there's still something worrying about the lack of sales progress. The annual report will make interesting reading I'm sure.

Question - next year the preferential shares convert to ordinary shares. This will see the dividendt payment cease (good news), but will significantly dilute the current earnings per share etc (they aren't accounted for in the annual report etc becuase the conversion rate is yet to be determined). Do you think this dilution is already built into the share price? eg if the number of shares on issues doubles, will the share price halve? or is this accounted for in some way already?

[simla]

So long as there's a loss, isn't dilution good? No, just joking!

I don't think anything at all is built into the share price. My reading is that we're a bit back where we were maybe 18 months ago with the share price. At that point, it was sitting at 4 cents because people didn't want to buy until there was actual evidence the plan was going to work. Then suddenly there was that evidence and it jumped very strongly. Then it slowly sagged down while people waited for the sales figures to support the hope. Now that sales are not leaping, the interest will probably wane, as the current share price perhaps shows.

Until there is a profit, the share price is not based on anything concrete. However, we're not as we were back then, because progress has been very significant since then. If the company can crack the problem of generating sales demand for what is a very good product, as you say, then progress will be swift now. If not, then we probably don't want to know what happens then. Nevertheless, the company has existing sales with a good cost of sales structure, so there is no reason for a sudden end to all this, so long as the company is watching it's step very carefully.

Next year is definitely of interest, however. The conversion isn't just at 4 cents, it is variable depending on the market price at the time.

Also, in order to crack the problem of attracting customer demand, the company has to step carefully around quite strong laws limiting advertising health benefits of non-medicines. I personally think perhaps they need to start associating the product with other things the customer values instead, if they can't make actual health claims. That's how celebrity endorsement works, that Brucea is keen on. And coke advertises by associating with parties and the beach. Jeans ads typically imply some sort of sex appeal. Cars often imply they are some sort of fashion accessory. They don't actually advertise that the product is sugary water, or that it is blue denim, or converts petrol to motion. Instead they associate with something the customer already values. Might work for Blis if we can't go with the health claims.

Either way, I think we're in for a slow waiting period here again. We'll see though.

[winner69]

So long as there's a loss, isn't dilution good? No, just joking!

I don't think anything at all is built into the share price.

Methinks heaps of good news is built into the current shareprice .... ie all the expectations being met in due course

But they fail to deliver eh

[simla]

Not really. The current share price would be justified if they made even the slightest profit. If all expectations are met, it is very seriously undervalued.

If you mean that a share price above zero implies survival, then obviously. If you mean that that isn't going to happen, then what I said before: it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, Winner69! There's still irons in this fire. Yep, would prefer things were otherwise though.

[emearg]

. Europe is a closed book to virtually everybody. I read recently that Europe had not approved a single probiotic's health claims yet from anyone. A Canadian probiotics scientist on Radio NZ this week was absolutely scathing of regulatory hurdles around the world for probiotics, so it's not just Blis.

I heard that interview as well. The fact it isn't just Blis doesn't help.

[emearg]

Not really. The current share price would be justified if they made even the slightest profit. If all expectations are met, it is very seriously undervalued.

You may be right. Do you fancy doing some figures on what the profit would have to be to justify the current share price with a PE of 20?

BTW I don't think that the fat lady is anywhere near singing but I strongly disagree with yesterdays positivity!!

[simla]

I'm not trying to be overly positive, Emearg. But neither am I totally upset. Yes, we hoped we were about to step into the light, and we haven't by the look of it. But this has always been a calculated risk, and the bottom line is that it remains one.

I've always been prepared to lose this one, and I remain that way, or I wouldn't have invested in a company with a quite uncertain future. I very much hope not to obviously, but I don't expect the world to deliver long shots to me on a plate. I've now put a lot of time into rearranging my view of what's going on here, and the bottom line is that Blis needs to find a way of reaching out to customers, preferably very quickly. Everything else is still going well, but the reaching out is probably a game breaker.

The question is whether this is the bad news, with good news to come in the full report. Or whether this is bad news softening us for more! I confess I'm not overly hopeful on that front, as revenue is surely the big topic. Nevertheless, the situation is heaps better than it was two years ago, so the company still has the opportunity to address this. We'll see.

[winner69]

You may be right. Do you fancy doing some figures on what the profit would have to be to justify the current share price with a PE of 20?

BTW I don't think that the fat lady is anywhere near singing but I strongly disagree with yesterdays positivity!!

I in for a laugh

Assuming the CPS get converted nexy year another 100 mill shares (they get a min of 25 don't they irrespective of the share price don't they)

Ok at 5 cents this time next year conversion and a PE of 12 (20 far tooo high) they would need a NPAT of $1 mill to make it all stack up.

A 10 cents of course NPAT needs to be $2mill

Heck they don't even sell that much now do they .... and heaps of cash flow being capitalised which has to come back to the P&L some time

The fat lady may sing one day but at the moment the local corner store is probably selling more than BLT .... without spending millions

[simla]

You should be Minister of Finance, Winner69. To answer the question as it was posed, 5 cents at PE of 20 is a quarter cent profit per share, or $345k on the 138m shares currently on issue. A bit short on the $2m you conjured out of creative rephrasing of the question! Last March's report listed cost of goods sold of 514k on sales revenue of 1237k, and it seems likely the figures will be similar this time. The problem isn't making the profit, the problem is making the sales revenue to base it on. They can cut back on other costs too.

Look, I'm sorry if I'm refusing to enter the requiem, but I've had quite enough things happen to me in life that I don't get upset over money unless things are getting quite serious.

Frank Sinatra's song, That's Life: You're riding high in April, shot down in May, That's Life ... But I don't let it get me down.

[simla]

Actually Winner69, do you mind if I ask you a technical question which I've never quite got my head around? The capitalised expenses get mentioned from time to time as a problem for the future. While I understand that the declared profit is dragged down by it, yet I don't really see why investors should care. The cashflow for it is long gone, and so it does not affect cash for future profits. I compare that with tax losses for example, which are future positive cash flow because they are taxes that do not have to get paid in future. As you obviously know your way around, maybe you can tell me if I'm missing something?

[emearg]

Pref's down 41.67% today...

[emearg]

While there aren't many review of BioGuard on Costco, what they say is remarkably interesting i.e. the varied beneficial side effects that people report.

Latest report below:
Best Dry Mouth Relief
Pros: helps keep mouth moist
Cons: may not be suitable for diabetic persons
"I bought this product based on excellent product review by Costco members and my experience with probiotics for my stomach. My wife and I have been using it for 2 weeks and we have seen marked difference in our mouths. As a senior, I take lots of medicines which results in dry mouth. Also, I have sinus and nasal blockage problems due to drug reactions and environment ( heating of our house, dust and pollen during Spring). My wife has Sjogrens syndrome which attacks her salivary gland and her eye ducts. This results in very dry mouth and dry eyes. After using this product, my dry mouth problem has been eliminated as well has reduced my sinus and nasal blockage significantly. My wife also has stopped taking prescription drug for dry mouth since she started taking this product. Overall, we are very satisfied with the beneficial properties of this product. Next time we see our dentist, we will recommend it ."

It is the same with the Life Extension product:
Latest review here:
This is a great product! It works quickly. My gums stopped 90% of their bleeding in the first day of use. Now, a week later, the bleeding has stopped and my teeth feel tighter and pain free. This is a breakthrough product!!! Try it, you won't believe how fast it works. I take one just before bed and then take another later when I have to get up to use the bathroom. I wish this was around 7 years ago. I think my periodontal disease would never have gotten a foothold and I wouldn't have lost a single tooth.


The people selling these products, and others with Blis K12 and M18 really need to pick up the pace on getting the message out there!

[simla]

Pref's down 41.67% today...

Yes, it quite takes me back to how things used to be. I'd forgotten how much more exciting it is when the future is so unclear. I hadn't realised Blis-watching was getting boring, but no problems on that front now!

[simla]

The people selling these products, and others with Blis K12 and M18 really need to pick up the pace on getting the message out there!

Retail.

The company has been astonishingly successful at selling to manufacturers, distributors and wholesalers. Very impressive indeed. But the sales don't seem to be happening at the retail level end.

The company now needs to see what it can do to support sales at the retail level. What sales messages work? What would make customers see oral probiotics as relevant to them? Focus groups. What promotional material is needed? What information and/or training would help retailers? Etc.

It's all about retail support now, as I see it.

[simla]

Here's a coupon for the Therabreath Multi Symptom Probiotics. http://drkatz.com/drkatz-coupons.pdf That coupon mentions Walmart, CVS (next largest chemist to Walgreens), Walgreens, Rite Aid, and Publix (supermarket chain) but this graphic confusingly has a different list of retailers http://blog.therabreath.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/retailersemail033111.jpg and has the probiotics only at Walgreens where it's currently listed as half price this week, eg http://coupondivas.com/walgreens-deals.html

[simla]

The share price is looking for a new level. But I do wonder if people aren't underestimating how smart a company Blis is.

How to crank up retail interest within available resources? It's a concrete question. A smart company like Blis is certainly working on a useful answer.

[emearg]

A smart company like Blis is certainly working on a useful answer.

That isn't really something Blis is much good at.

That is where Frutarom comes in. And Pharabroker or whatever they are called in NZ.

This may well be a good time to buy for those who still believe in Blis's future. You buying Simla?

[simla]

That isn't really something Blis is much good at.

Well, if they're not, I hope they're doing it anyway. A company that needs more retail sales has more chance of getting it if they're pitching in with everyone else. Waiting for others is not the strongest strategy in the world.

No, I think I'm a bit up on where I was after the rights, but I'm not adding more. Like many other, I imagine, the delay in Blis making financial headway plus world mayhem focuses my mind more on ensuring my other affairs are happy than on being bold here. Logic tells me this will probably work out somehow, but there's no certainty in that outcome. Many a start-up company has tripped over when trying to expand. As I said, it's got exciting again.

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends" sounds good so long as you're in a Shakespeare play!

[Scuffer]

Sounds great as long as you are not full on charging into oblivion waving your wallet.

[simla]

I'm not sure we're talking Charge of The Light Brigade here, Scuffer.

The announcement's wording was deliberately neutral as always with Blis, but the main points were simple. Trading revenue would be the same as last year, extra costs had been incurred for GRAS and product support, there would be a material deterioration on last year's result accordingly, that there were adequate levels of cash, and that the preference dividend would be paid in cash, and that other parties are looking to nationwide distribution.

You and I might have used less neutral adjectives, since neutral adjectives always invite raised eyebrows in interpretation, but the actual words themselves did not state a whole lot more than that there would be a loss this year, and that the expansion of outlets continues, in the face of the "prevailing economic environment".

The wording was so neutral that it implied no obvious interpretation. BLT shareholders earn their keep by staying the course! It's an unknown final outcome, and we have all known that from the beginning, and only the end will tell us the result. But Blis still has a whole lot of good progress under it's belt.

The full report is probably 4 or 5 weeks away.

[simla]

Well, I've thought, and I've decided on patience. Emearg has been saying for about a year now that we need to give this thing quite a bit more time to develop, and personally I've decided to fall in with that. Just my view, as always.

[emearg]

Well, I've thought, and I've decided on patience. Emearg has been saying for about a year now that we need to give this thing quite a bit more time to develop, and personally I've decided to fall in with that. Just my view, as always.

I wish I was wrong :(

[emearg]

http://www.ifsmed.com/store/normal-microflora-support/oral-probiotic

[simla]

An interesting article this morning on angel investors in the US. It specifically discussed the problem of how long startups take to achieve stable income. One said, "We're just waiting for some of our investments that we've been in for 10 years to come through," for example. It also mentions multiple rounds of funding.

I've read various mentions over the years about how Kiwis just don't have a knowledge base of how long startups take, and how this complicates startups in NZ. And there have been quite a few articles recently on angel investors in NZ.

All of which seemed quite relevant to our situation here. It is pretty hard for us to tell just how on-track things are here without a feeling for how long a reasonable time scale is. Especially in light of a very difficult world economy.

As I said, I've personally decided on patience, mentally allowing more time for things to develop. If Kiwis lack a knowledge base on how long startups take, I guess some of us are increasing that knowledge base here. It's at a far more advanced stage than most startups, of course. A whole lot of excellent progress has been made.

[simla]

How heart-warming The Royal Wedding was! Well worth several hours of watching. More on the relevance of that below.


I've said this company still has plenty of irons in the fire. So let's just review.

Note: Corrections always welcome. I try to be accurate, but to remind people, yet again, I'm never advising anyone to buy, sell, or trade BLT or any other share. Each investor must make his own decisions. I view this forum as a place to discuss publicly available information. I haven't put references in for all these statements this time, as it would be very long, and we've discussed them all elsewhere before, with plenty of references in my previous posts. Tell me if you think I've made a mistake though.


Geography. Products are for sale in NZ, Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan, Taiwan, Canada, The US, possibly Mexico (Costco), Switzerland. Other parts of Asia are on the target list, as is Europe, with complex regulation generally being the barrier.

Products. Here's the last list we've done here, thanks Emearg. http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5122-BLT-(Blis)&p=333693&viewfull=1#post333693

Chains. From Wikipedia: Costco is "the largest membership warehouse club chain in the United States" and "the third largest retailer in the United States". Riteaid "operates more than 4,780 stores in 31 states" and is "the largest drugstore chain on the East Coast and the third largest drugstore chain in the U.S." Walgreens "operates 8,169 drugstores across all 50 states". Also, the last company statement talked of upcoming "products" (plural) with nationwide release, of which we have seen one only so far. And also, we must assume all the other existing products are displayed in numerous stores as well.

Product formats. Melt tabs. Chewing gum. Soft gels. The company has indicated it is working on other formats from time to time, but we do not hear what. In particular it is suggested to be usable in food formats.

The products themselves. K12 is good at bad breath, and most of us find it helps fend off coughs and colds, as well as easing sore throats, as well good for gum health, and has anti-bacterial qualities. M18 is specifically aimed at plaque and tartar and the bacteria generally recognised as the source of dental caries. And both of these products are natural parts of the human biology, which is in step with the "natural" bent of much of the world.

Other developments. GRAS has taken time, but the last thing the company said was they were expecting progress soon, and did not apparently see any need to update that situation in the recent statements. We're not sure where GRAS would lead us, but Culturedcare gum for one would appear to make it into the US then maybe? Various companies on the net talk keenly of the market value of functional food, and GRAS. Also, the company has other research agreements in place, which may lead to unexpected news at some time.

Sales Revenue. Well, you can review that for yourself. The last statement from the company said it will be similar this year to last year, since when the share price has been moved down.

Costs. But more likely the share price moved down because it also mentioned a "material deterioration", the exact meaning of which we'll find out in a few weeks with the results. It said this was following more expenditure on GRAS and new product support. Now, there's quite a bit of room for thought here. These are expansion costs, and it might be reasonable to think they will pass? In any case, the company said it had adequate cash and was continuing with the commercialisation strategy.

So, put it all together, and you have a smart company with excellent products making a lot of headway in the world. Against that, sales were flat over the last year in a very hostile world. What to make of that as investors? Simple answer: each must decide for themselves. It's an unclear situation at present as to how this will play out next.


So, back to the Royal Wedding. What's that about?

Nerve!

Once again the British have shown us where the "Great" comes from. Britain's population is not even three times that of Australia's. But Britain gets where it does by having the nerve to give things a go. There's the country on critical terror alert, and yet they calmly take the royal family and half the world's dignitaries through the streets of London amidst huge crowds with almost unfettered access to the whole route. And with vast crowds marching towards the Palace, they leave the Palace gates wide open! And another example of nerve I read recently, the British make budget cuts of US$130 billion, while the Americans have bickered for months over cuts of a fraction of that. "Who Dares Wins" is the motto of the Special Air Service of the British Army.

And yet here we BLT shareholders are all sitting on the sidelines with a share price of cents because it doesn't offer the security and dividend of Fletcher Building ... selling for $9.20! I guess the British have nothing on us for nerve!

I have no more idea how this will play out than any one else. Many of us boldly set out on the rights issue just 2 years ago and took a strong risk. But now that so much has been achieved, though, we seem to have become very risk averse. Does that revenue result make the situation unclear? Yes. Does it make the BLT share a good or bad purchase at present prices? That's surely quite a different question.

I still have no idea what to think at present. But that wedding was surprising food for thought. Have the British got nerve? You bet!

[simla]

Now, KForce Oral Guard with M18. http://www.breezecare.com/article/probiotics-blis-m18.html

And how about this. Most Major Drug Stores in the US in maybe 6 to 8 months? "TheraBreath Multi Symptom Probiotics are now available exclusively at your local Walgreens drugstore through the Fall of 2011, at which time they will be available at most major drug stores in the U.S. " http://www.articlesolve.com/articledetail.php?artid=138623&catid=36 I found that statement on three different web sites, so we'll find out if that is official later I guess. Sounds promising.

[Scuffer]

Not wanting to bang on the drum but they need to really start to market this stuff I see Life pharmacy are selling it alongside Buccaline as a two step thrash of the commonn cold and winter sniffle, to be honest I use the stuff without the buccaline, but aligned with the flu shot haven't had the flu in ten years get the odd sniffle but no caterpillars hanging out the noselike ya see some kids with the snailtrail arm sleeves. The chewing gum is what I'm interested in it would be a big seller if it was easy to get hold of, I reckon the dentists should be selling the stuff but I don't think they even know about it here what are the marketing department doing at Blis, I hope they are not sunning themselves in Raro on my hard earned dollars, get it sorted guys.

[neopoleII]

would like to get some m18 but dont want to import a NZ product.
blis is like what skoda was 40 years ago.........
it worked but thats about it.
hope we dont have to wait 40years.........
but then..... been waiting 10 already.

[Bobby_Fischer]

No posts to the Blis Tech facebook page for over a month. Prior to that, at least several posts per week. Hmmmmm.

[Bobby_Fischer]

And they sneak the result out under cover of darkness. Loss 1.4 Mil. Over the 12 months they have burnt through half their remaining cash and have about 1.5 Mil. left.

[Nigel]

Ouch. Disappointing result - actually much worse than I had anticipated. With all the talk of nationwide sales in USA, Mexico etc, the growing number of products and applications for their scientifically-proven ingredients, I didn't expect overall revenue to FALL by 12% and the loss to balloon so badly.

I'll pour over the annual report in the coming days, but very disappointed by this result.

So much for the maiden profit!

[winner69]

Ouch. Disappointing result - actually much worse than I had anticipated. With all the talk of nationwide sales in USA, Mexico etc, the growing number of products and applications for their scientifically-proven ingredients, I didn't expect overall revenue to FALL by 12% and the loss to balloon so badly.

I'll pour over the annual report in the coming days, but very disappointed by this result.

So much for the maiden profit!

Sales of the miracle stuff were actually up 9% to $1.3m .... its just that the income they got from contarcts and licensing and interest etc were down heaps

Trading Revenue
New Zealand 217 v 192 up 13%
United States of America 976 v 760 up 28%
Asia 26 v 136 down -81%
Australia 125 v 147 down -15%
Other 7 v 3 up 133%
Total trading revenue 1,351 v 1,238 up 9%

Selling more ... thats good

[winner69]

At least they didn't tell you any porkies in the previous announcement... they did say a 'material' deterioation and by gosh it did turn out to be material eh

Couldn't find the half year but did sales improve over the 2nd half of the year or are they are in a death spiral

Still amazed that such a small company even bother lists .... maybe it neds gulliable investors to front up every now and again with cash .... still reckon a decent corner dairy has more turnover than this

Whose the dude who egts $250,000 plus to run the outfit ... maybe be needs to get on his bike like Arkwright and actaully go out and peddle the stuff

[fungus pudding]

Why? Vitamins are big business! I would have thought getting people to take Blis products just like a multivitamin is exactly what we want?

Or was your comment more about ethics?

Completely about ethics.

[simla]

Here's how I personally read that full year report. Others will see it their own way, naturally.


"Overall the 2011 operating and financial performance disappointed." (p4) Well, yes. But there's some cheerful stuff in there too, as I read it.

Sales did actually grow, although not by much. But they certainly didn't collapse, and the reduced income was because of the reduced contract work, not sales revenue. US sales did increase from 760k to 976k. Nevertheless, "expectations have moderated in terms of how quickly volumes can build to commercial levels." (p5)

Costs went up because of GRAS, which is one-up, and depreciation and amortisation, which are not cash expenses as I understand it. And cost cutting is in progress (p5). As a result, cash flow before preference dividends (which end in a year) and GRAS (which should be one-up) and capitalised expenses (750k), was -112k as I read it. (p4).

"These initiatives are expected to reduce the operating deficit in the 2012 financial year which together with a modest development commitment can be funded from existing cash reserves." (p5). However, "considering alternative sources of funds" to capitalise on expected GRAS and European opportunities (p13).

Working capital 1.478m (p22)


Interesting: "In New Zealand and some other markets ... retail products [and] branded ingredients." (p6) Both in NZ?

The long discussion on the health effects (p7) might possibly be read as, "sales growth is slower than we expect, but meanwhile we've discovered that Blis is an even more powerful product then we realised, which will be valuable"? That was my reading, anyway.

"... the Company ... is soon to complete [GRAS]". p8. "June 2011" expected (p8). Next month? The company is in discussions with several food companies (p11). This appears to state that GRAS is in the bag as I read it, although it requires the FDA to agree presumably? The point of GRAS is simple: (a) way more people buy food than vitamin tablets; (b) way more people walk into food shops than vitamin stores; (c) people will buy food regardless of added vitamins, but will only buy vitamin pills if they specifically understand and want that vitamin. If that is confirmation of GRAS, that should be big news. The company has worked hard and paid for that, so obviously values it a lot. Resulting revenue will presumably take some time though? I presume GRAS is only K12 so far, leaving M18 for later? "Commercial scale batches of ice cream have been made", as a test presumably, which look promising for stability. (p12)

12 products in Asia now (p7), so we've missed some in our searches. But Asian revenue was not high (p4) but represents a major resource commitment (p7) so they are hopeful of results presumably.

The new Nestle research is another 3 years. (p8)

Q24 coming off the blocks, and using K12 in animal products (bad breath for dogs anyone?) (p8). Web-site sales soon (p9).

Bioguard is in Mexico (p9).

Therabreath's product is the first one with a specific target market of oral hygiene (p9) which may open sales doors, selling into 7541 Walgreens stores, with other major outlets to follow.

Tab Labs has a deal for more probiotic chewing gums with a major European gum company (p10).

"Good progress" with the regulatory situation in China (p10).

More projects in Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, india. (p10).

Application for regulatory status in Europe being submitted. (p11)

Technology complete to make K12 stable in a range of GRAS food environments. (p12)

Considerable interest has been shown in pipeline products (p12).

"Our partners have invested considerable funds in developing and marketing products based on our branded ingredients and share our expectations for achieving commercial sales volumes in the near future." (p13)



All up, very much food for thought. I'll be chewing that over some more. However, the net deficit of 1.4m paints a gloomier result than the underlying detail reveals. Emearg, you wondered a while ago if this was "a good time to buy for those who still believe in Blis's future." Interesting. Sales revenue remains a subject for pondering, but I was heartened to hear the company say so out loud and state the actions they are taking in response - whereas I spent last year being puzzled but not hearing much from the company about it. And sales revenue aside, the company continues to make enormous business strides, doesn't it?

No matter what, that was yet again solid business progress which is quite incredible for such a small company. I certainly have no hesitation in thanking the company and all associated with it for achieving a sterling workload. I'm quite sure investors can think of other companies they wish were this go-getting!

Short version for me: great products, great company, but profit still to come again. The company seems to have put its all into GRAS this year, and are expecting to achieve that shortly as I read that. Much food for thought overall. I'm sure everyone is deciding on their own opinions of all that. Very interesting.

[fungus pudding]

Sales did actually grow, although not by much. But they certainly didn't collapse, and the reduced income was because of the reduced contract work, not sales revenue. US sales did increase from 760k to 976k. Nevertheless, "expectations have moderated in terms of how quickly volumes can build to commercial levels." (p5)


It's same store sales that matter. How did they go? e.g. a doubling of sales by doubling the number of outlets is not growth in this stage of a product's life cycle.

[blissfool]

I tend to agree with you simila, extremely dissappointing result (perhaps now on the edge of the precepise) however sales growth and product development is positive, especially the new animal product. I think and hope this could be dairy based, with Barry's previous dairy connections, the relationship between Nestle and Bliss plus the relationship between Nestle and Fonterra. As well as the fact that probiotics have a strong dairy assocation, I think the new product may be the one to watch. It would be ironic that a company who's foundation was built on providing products for humans turned itself around with a product suitable for cows.

[winner69]

And they sneak the result out under cover of darkness. Loss 1.4 Mil. Over the 12 months they have burnt through half their remaining cash and have about 1.5 Mil. left.

The usual excuse for late Friday afternnon announcements is that they had to finish the Board meeting off to OK the results and this dind't finish until 5pm .... yeah right

These guys are pulling the wool over your eyes .... and as long as they produce pages and pages of good news and you fall for the good old one off expense story and that dividends to the prefferred few shouldn't really be shown because it is really equity than no doubt all is OK and the future will be wonderful .... thse things are called cash burn and do matter

I look at it this way .... all this wonderful stuff and all they can sell is $35,000 a day of it .... maybe the local Four Square should do a IPO

[simla]

Yes you're right, Winner69, in that although one-off expenses and non-p&l pref dividends are worth excluding to see underlying performance and ratios, yet definitely they are no long term solution. We are obviously all hoping for sales revenues to dwarf those sort of issues. The company is saying the same when it talks of reaching "commercial sales volumes". And the one-up expansion costs are likely to continue for some time anyway, as the company obviously intends to push on.

There is no disputing that the issue is whether this product will sell in much larger quantities. That's the big question that each investor must form their own opinion on. The company's opinion on the subject is clear at least: "Our partners have invested considerable funds in developing and marketing products based on our branded ingredients and share our expectations for achieving commercial sales volumes in the near future." (p13)

(For those who still want to use that view though, you might rejig page 3 to read: underlying operating loss 286k, one-up GRAS costs 248k, Amortisation/Depreciation (non-cash expense) 330k, Pref Div costs 521k = 1385k loss. In this respect, the company's underlying operating loss is roughly the same as last year (a bit bigger due to reduced research contracts absorbing a little less of research costs maybe?), whereas the div costs went up due to the extra $1m prefs. Since sales this year were vaguely the same as last year, it's not surprising the underlying operating loss should be about the same too.)

As to cash burn, which always definitely matters, one of the biggest parts of the cash burn seems to be the R&D, and that's really a fascinating thing. Clearly the company would have an easier life without that, so you have to conclude they're pretty happy about all this R&D they keep capitalising. And don't forget that the auditors are happy to sign off on this expenditure being something they can use to make a profit with later, as required by accounting standards (p25). I think we ignore this large part of the company's activities here, but I find it hard to see it as not of significance.

[simla]

As far as the next product is concerned, I think the company has drummed on about GRAS for long enough for us to think that they have high hopes there.

You only have to look at how many people are standing inside vitamin stores when you walk past (basically none whenever I'm looking) versus supermarkets (never empty, often packed) to see why GRAS is the preferred route of many companies, and therefore why this company might hope that GRAS will generate sales faster than dietary supplements. Personally, I can see quite a bit to be hopeful of if the company can already put Blis into yoghurt and ice cream (as I read p12) and is shortly to have permission to sell those if GRAS is about to arrive (p8) and is in talks with several food companies (p11).

[simla]

These guys are pulling the wool over your eyes .... and as long as they produce pages and pages of good news and you fall for the good old one off expense story and that dividends to the prefferred few shouldn't really be shown because it is really equity than no doubt all is OK and the future will be wonderful .... thse things are called cash burn and do matter

The reason I don't see it that way myself is that this is a gutsy company that keeps achieving things. You see companies that just keep doing the same thing every year and not gaining much from it. But this company is always diligently pursuing deliberate choices with a specific end in mind. For example, for Blis to have battled through the extraordinarily difficult probiotics regulations regime to gain GRAS is hugely impressive. Everybody's trying to do it, but Blis did it. (If they have! But it sounds like they probably have.) And there are many achievements like that under their belt now.

Don't forget the rights issue was only 24 months ago. They've made a huge amount of progress in that time.

Investors looking at the current situation - me, anyway - surely can't help noticing two main points. (1) Sales revenue needs to grow a lot to be a useful long term investment. (2) This is a seriously talented company selling excellent products which has already moved mountains and is still working hard.

It's the oddest thing, considering they just announced a 1.4m loss, but that report left me feeling more confident than before. I just got this feeling that a point of critical mass had been achieved. If the GRAS is confirmed, I might even return to feeling "optimistic", instead of the "cautious" I have been for most of the last year.

However, I can't read the future any more than anyone else can, and that's just my views. Each will have their own ideas, naturally.

[Nigel]

Will be interesting to see what the share-price does in the morning!

[winner69]

Will be interesting to see what the share-price does in the morning!

Prob go up seeing things weren't so bad ... or less worse than many thought

[fungus pudding]

Prob go up seeing things weren't so bad ... or less worse than many thought

Which is much better than more badder. :D

[Bobby_Fischer]

"... the Company ... is soon to complete [GRAS]". p8. "June 2011" expected (p8). Next month?


I don't read it the way you do, Simla. My reading is that the process is simply delayed until June 2011 ("... has delayed this process to June 2011"). That may or may not mean that they will make a submission to the FDA in June. Even then I think I read somewhere on the FDA website that the FDA only aims to respond to GRAS requests within 6 months. Presumably it could take longer than that if there were issues. Potentially still a long row to hoe with GRAS methinks. Keep a watch here: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fcn/fcnNavigation.cfm?rpt=grasListing

[emearg]

I don't read it the way you do, Simla. My reading is that the process is simply delayed until June 2011 ("... has delayed this process to June 2011"). That may or may not mean that they will make a submission to the FDA in June. Even then I think I read somewhere on the FDA website that the FDA only aims to respond to GRAS requests within 6 months. Presumably it could take longer than that if there were issues. Potentially still a long row to hoe with GRAS methinks. Keep a watch here: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fcn/fcnNavigation.cfm?rpt=grasListing

I completely agree BF. Based on their comments I am expecting an application from Blis to pop up on the GRAS site in June. But until I see it I won't believe it as their time frame keeps slipping! If it happens that will be a significant step and yes it takes many months for them to get to the 'FDA has no questions' state. Many applications are withdrawn. Based on what appears to be robust preparation I'm not expecting Blis to withdraw theirs...but only time will tell.

This investment certainly is for the patient and for those with b@lls the size of footballs (or perhaps brains the size of chestnuts). Or both? ;)

[simla]

You may be right Bobby.

Emearg, are you intending to publish a list of which of us you see in each of your two categories!

[emearg]

Emearg, are you intending to publish a list of which of us you see in each of your two categories!

Absolutely not!! Well, probably not... ;)

[neopoleII]

well........
i started with b@lls........ real big ones!
now im left with nuts.
this one stock alone has dramatically changed my life........
blt has all my cash..... or should i say they spent all my cash,
but then...... because of this life changing dis-investment i met the girl of my dreams.
so all is good.
my blt shares are like bonus bonds to me now........ one day they might come in.
i spent more on my blt shares than i spent building my house.
and i used to laugh at my mate who used the same amount of cash to leverage himself into a bunch of rental investments.

yup yup yup...........

[simla]

There's no reading the future, of course, NeopoleII. But if it's any consolation, I still think this is travelling in the right direction. And, hey, the girl of your dreams beats a pile of cash any day.

[emearg]

There's no reading the future, of course, NeopoleII. But if it's any consolation, I still think this is travelling in the right direction. And, hey, the girl of your dreams beats a pile of cash any day.

Without wanting to sully anything how about the girl of your dreams lying on a pile of cash? Best of both worlds there! :)

[emearg]

Throatguard advertisment. Added to YouTube yesterday by Blis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcFP3kn0OY

[emearg]

Sneak preview of their new site on Facebook...

[neopoleII]

Without wanting to sully anything how about the girl of your dreams lying on a pile of cash? Best of both worlds there! :)

now there,s a thought...... i might photocopy a whole bunch of $100 bills and chuck them on the bed on Friday night...
i wonder what she,ll say?

[simla]

Sneak preview of their new site on Facebook...

The new site looks pretty promising, way more user friendly. The words "buy online" and "shop online" are currently fairly small and I didn't notice them for a bit, but it's great. I like the 100% money back too. Good idea.

And that ad. Wow, are we going to get some advertising on NZ TV do you think? I thought that was a nifty ad that was easy to relate to.

Great to see work on promotion of the product.

[simla]

Looking more closely at the ad, it wasn't a current bottle, so I guess that's an old ad, and it won't be on TV now? That would certainly generate sales though in my opinion. Great ad. Snappy and attention grabbing. It might even do something for the share price by raising awareness of the company too!

[simla]

Informative, I felt. http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=7948949-950-205340&type=sect&dcn=0001144204-11-031238

[simla]

That Imagenetix link is very interesting in shedding light on Blis's last result. http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=7948949-950-205340&type=sect&dcn=0001144204-11-031238

My reading of it is thus: It states "BioGuard® ... represented approximately 5% of [Imagenetix's] sales for the year ". It also states "net sales" of 6,596,071. So 5% of that would be about 330k. (Note that the net sales were actually higher than that though, as the report states that discounts are reported as reduced sales rather than expense, or that's how I read it anyway.)

What might that mean about Blis's own sales revenues? That last year, Blis had it's wide range of products which may have performed as expected (we did not hear much detail), but with only the one main chance of large short-term growth because of one product going nationwide for the first time. That one product was labelled "Daily Immune Support", was presumably present in several thousand stores if distribution completed in time, and we have no idea what the in-store positioning and presentation was like, nor of what support advertising occurred. It will presumably grow its market, but nevertheless the first year of sales came to about 330k we are told in the above report, as I read it anyway. BLT presumably received less than that as it's share, but may have had more than that via forward ordering.


So last year may be viewed thus possibly: One product launched nationwide, which is excellent, but did not very significantly boost Blis's sales revenue in the last year; sales of all the other products probably proceeded apace, again not providing a very significant boost however; and that the company engaged in quite a few extra expenses, of GRAS trials, expanded preference dividends, plus ongoing R&D costs.


What does that say of the future then? Well, it might say that people have got unnecessarily despondent here, mightn't it?

Essentially we know that the company has set up a lot of business infrastructure, and continues to do so, but we are now waiting for a step change in revenue. We had just the one obvious chance last year of that with one single nationwide product launch, which will no doubt continue to grow in future regardless. What other possible step-changes have we in store? Looking to the last annual report:


Bioguard may grow significantly, having been only in the shops a very short time so far.
Therabreath has gone nationwide now.
The March release told us of other nationwide releases near to completion.
M18 has yet to appear as much as K12 has, so there's is room there for growth.
GRAS is an obvious avenue for growth, and might still be expected to be granted this year by the look of it.
Existing products will presumably continue to grow their market, and compounding does add up.
Asia has been fairly well seeded already, and will presumably return results at some point.
China has an application that is proceeding well, we are told.
Nestle cancelling the infant food was a real pity, but they remain a future customer.
Chewing gum has yet to leave Canada but would seem to have plenty of potential.
The company keeps talking of product innovation and new delivery systems. I do not know what that implies, but they're obviously keen on it. Presumably the ice cream experiment is such an example, as are soft gels and chewing gum.
Further development of the immune and heart effects that the company mentions quite often.
They seem to feel they may have found a door into Europe, but we'll see.
Always there is a product pipeline in consideration.


Against that are obvious points. The world's consumers are not happy; oral probiotics is a new product concept for consumers; the company must always manage its working capital; and shareholders may prefer to have a return sooner rather than later!!

Okay. So one single nationwide chance did not in the event give a big boost to BLT revenues last year, but plenty more lie in wait, as does that original product. Each investor must make their own decisions naturally, but personally I think the current despondency may not be well justified by the facts.

Comments anyone?

[emearg]

I note blisk12.biz and blism18.biz have been registered by Blis.

[simla]

I'll take that non-reference to my post as not agreeing with it then! Well, that's good, as competing views are always more informative. However, the point of this group has been to argue out possible views, but that doesn't seem to happen much now. Oh well.

So apparently we fall back on passively waiting for time to pass and slowly reveal things. The whole world seems to have become paralysed by gloom. Did none of us ever get the moral of Lord of the Rings then!

You might enjoy this clip, showing that things aren't always as bad as we take them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU

[emearg]

I'll take that non-reference to my post as not agreeing with it then!
Ummm if you want to go ahead but you do run the risk of being wrong...


So apparently we fall back on passively waiting for time to pass and slowly reveal things. The whole world seems to have become paralysed by gloom.
I'm not gloomy. Just realistic when looking at results about where a company is at. That doesn't equal gloomy


Did none of us ever get the moral of Lord of the Rings then!
Yes but Blis isn't a fantasy novel


You might enjoy this clip, showing that things aren't always as bad as we take them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU
I did enjoy the clip but I'm not quite sure I interpret it the same way as you?

Happy happy joy joy Simla :) Have a nice weekend :)

[brucea]

Hi guys - have been off line for a while but am now back- I am having trouble finding a US company that will ship Nature's Plus dental care probiotic with M18 to NZ and cannot recall where I originally got the product from. I have been taking it regularly for some time and my dentist said I did not have much plaque build-up when I had my teeth cleaned a few weeks back. I have a few weeks supply left, so am keen to get more to see if the plaque build-up remains low. Any information in this direction gratefully received.
PS I have changed over to a Mac computer (wonderful) and an iPhone 4 (even more wonderful). An iPad is on order. Grudgingly I must admit I am now an Apple fan boy....

[pietrade]

My last lot came from VitaminLife.com. Was 'Nature's Plus' @ us$19.09. US$72 incl post for two packs of 60 tabs each.

[brucea]

Many thanks - I have ordered 4x packs from VitaminLife.com

[simla]

The share price isn't getting a lot of support just now. But Blis has arrived in Russia regardless of nervous Kiwis back home. Good on them. http://lorodent.ru/gde-kupit/distributori/

http://grishak.ru/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lorodent_for_adult1.jpg

[simla]

And here's another product in Japan. http://www.maruyama-ds.com/file/21/img747.pdf

And Australia. http://www.entrapro.com.au/store/

http://www.entrapro.com.au/store/media/IMG_0865%20small.JPG

And here's an Irish chemist advertising Blis. http://mccabespharmacy.com/shop/general-health/oral-care/blis-fresh-breath-kit.html

And this is a bit different. http://www.topdogshop.ch/contents/de-ch/p1355.html

http://www.topdogshop.ch/contents/media/t_halitus.jpg

[simla]

By the way, the new Blis website is currently not online yet. But search on "site:blis.co.nz" on Google, then click on "Cached" for each page and you can see quite a bit.

It's looking really good. I'm very impressed.

[neopoleII]

the company is now worth six and a quarter million dollars.
and they are trying to see their products in Russia.................
cant even buy M18 in New Zealand!
why doesnt some big corperate or govt agency just buy out BLT and put it out of its missery.
its not like 6 mill is alot of money.

i can at least clean out the bottom draw them, and give up on my deranged hope that i might get my investment back...... lol

[emearg]

Nice finds Simla. Love the dog product!!

K12:
Natures Plus - Adult's Ear, Nose & Throat Lozenges with K12 Probiotics -- Tropical Cherry
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=49254&productnumber=49254&category=28

Natures Plus - Animal Parade® Children's Chewable Inner Ear Support
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=29949&productnumber=29949&category=12

Swanson - Ultra Oral Probiotic
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU519/ItemDetail?n=0

Imagenetix - Bioguard
http://bioguardhealth.com/

Solaray - Oral Flora
http://www.smartbomb.com/slr12698.html

VegLife - Ear, Nose & Throat Shield
http://www.vitaminlife.com/product-exec/product_id/57807/nm/Ear+Nose+and+Throat+Shield

LEF - Advanced Oral Hygiene
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01300/Advanced-Oral-Hygiene.html

Biogenesis - Pro Flora Oral Health Chewables
http://www.bio-genesis.com/productpages/pro-flora-oral-health/pro-flora-oral-health.html

Epoca (Japanese market)
http://www.takachanmarket.com/products/detail.php?product_id=17325

Healthy Directions - Ear, Nose & Throat Defense
http://drsinatra.net/Products2.aspx?ProductID=BL12

True Botanicas - True Defense for Kids™
http://www.truebotanica.com/store/product/TDR1001/TrueDefenseforKids.aspx

True Botanicas - True Defense for Adults
http://www.mytruedefense.com/index.htm

Cultured Care - Probiotic Gum
http://culturedcare.com/

KSS66
http://www.leonbio.com/goods.php?id=2

Bio-Kick Throat Shield Daily (rebranded Blis Throat Guard Daily)
http://www.lab-avenue.com/product_info.php?products_id=37&language=en

Bio-Kick Throat Shield Strong (rebranded Blis Throat Guard Boost)
http://www.lab-avenue.com/product_info.php?products_id=38&language=en

OralHealth PLUS
http://www.phytohealth.com.au/oral-probiotics.html

NOW OralBiotic
http://vitanetonline.com/description/N2921/vitamins/OralBiotic/

E.N.T Biotic
http://www.protocolforlife.com/Products/ProductsAlphabetically/079926.htm

Pro-S Daily Lozenges
http://www.lifeshop2u.com/en/product/hf_17.php

Ora-Probiotic
http://pureencapsulation.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=OPB6

Garden of Life - Raw Cleanse
http://www.iherb.com/Garden-of-Life-RAW-Cleanse-The-Ultimate-Standard-in-Cleansing-and-Detoxification-3-Part-Program/22341?at=1&l=es

Biotect (Japanese market)
http://www.tpml-jp.com/original.html

Carotec K12
http://www.carotec.com/product/400/21

Bio Protect (Japanese Market)
http://www.aysyaonline.com/aysyashop/product04.php?productid=BIOPRO_04

Wynlife All-In-One Probiotics
http://www.wynlife.com/product_info.php?pid=149

Institute for Specialised Medicine - Oral Probiotic Blis K12
http://www.ifsmed.com/store/normal-microflora-support/oral-probiotic

entraFresh
http://www.entrapro.com.au/store/

Blis Balance (Japanese market)
http://www.maruyama-ds.com/file/21/img747.pdf

Lorodent Adult and Lorodent Children (Russian market)
http://lorodent.ru/gde-kupit/distributori/

Darapet halitosis (German market for dogs)
http://www.topdogshop.ch/contents/de-ch/p1355.html

KForce

Aktiv-k12

Blis Throat Guard Daily
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Throat-Guard-Daily

Blis Throat Guard Boost
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Throat-Guard-Boost

Blis Travel Guard
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Travel-Guard

Blis Bio Restore
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Bio-Restore

Blis Fresh Breath Kit
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Fresh-Breath-Kit

Blis Rapid Eze Gargle (is this product still available??)
http://blis.co.nz/?go=Consumers&c=BLIS-Products&p=Rapid-EZE-Gargle


M18:
Natures Plus - Animal Parade® Tooth Fairy™ Children’s Chewable Dental Probiotic
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=29948&productnumber=29948&category=12

Natures Plus - Adult’s Dental Care Probiotic Lozenges - Peppermint
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=4383&productnumber=4383&category=22


Includes K12 and M18:
Natures Plus - Whole Food Total Body Cleanse with Açai (Vegetarian Capsules)
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?productNumber=1120

Natures Plus - Ultra Lipoic™ Bi-Layered Mini-Tab
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=5224&productnumber=5224&category=29

Natures Plus - Ultra Lipoic™ Bi-Layered Tablets
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=5220&productnumber=5220&category=29

Natures Plus - Ultra Probiotics Vegetarian Capsules
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productdetail.asp?productNumber=4385

Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® For Him Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30002&productnumber=30002&category=11

Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® For Her Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30004&productnumber=30004&category=11

Natures Plus - POWER TEEN® Immune Booster Chewable Multi - Wild Berry
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/whatsnewShell.asp?criteria=search&whatsnew=yes&searchVar=30006&productNumber=30006&category=11

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Tablets
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30711&productnumber=30711&category=15

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Vcaps
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30716&productnumber=30716&category=15

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Mini-Tabs
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30714&productnumber=30714&category=15

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Energy Shake - Tropical Berry (available in two product formats (can or packet))
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/whatsnewShell.asp?criteria=search&whatsnew=yes&searchVar=30748&productNumber=30748&category=15

Natures Plus - Source of Life® GOLD Chewables - Tropical Fruit
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?criteria=search&searchVar=30719&productnumber=30719&category=15

Garden of Life - Immune Balance™ Rapid Extra Strength
http://www.gardenoflife.com/ProductsforLife/IMMUNEBALANCE/RapidExtraStrength/tabid/1992/Default.aspx

Natures Plus - Source of Life® Animal Parade® GOLD Children's Chewable Multi - Cherry Flavor
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?productNumber=29931

Natures Plus - Miracle Essentials™ Tablets -- Multi-Vitamin Boosting Supplement
http://www.naturesplus.com/products/productDetail.asp?productNumber=32962

TheraBreath MultiSympton Probiotic
http://www.blisk12.com/news/therabreath-multi/

[simla]

Thanks for the list, Emearg. ".ch" is in Switzerland, by the way, not Germany.

[simla]

i can at least clean out the bottom draw them, and give up on my deranged hope that i might get my investment back...... lol

The world sure is a bit of a roller coaster at present, NeopoleII, and Blis is necessarily caught up in that too. And I think most people are a bit spooked out now, and we all want things to just be "settled" when things are like that.

But most of us have been through the whole 1987-1997+ thing in NZ. It was pretty demanding for many. But the sun came up every day anyway. I have no idea what will happen in future, for Blis or otherwise, but I expect we'll get through. Human history mostly seems to be made up of bits that people have had to get through.

[simla]

This one will cheer you up, NeopoleII! We slipped up badly not noticing this story a month ago. Now it's in today's ODT. Ice Cream.

"Since doing trials, the product has been sold for the past month or so to boarding schools and there were some "really trendy" restaurants in Christchurch selling it. ... From Monday, the Blis ice cream will be available from the Gourmet Ice Cream Company's shop in Birch St [Dunedin]. He hoped there was also export potential. " http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/165313/ice-cream-business-not-licked-despite-quake-hit

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Gourmet-Ice-Cream-Company/381244327149?sk=wall
http://www.hospotrade.co.nz/news/introducing-a-world-first-probiotic-icecream.php
http://www.gourmeticecream.co.nz/

I'll bet the folk at Blis are pretty chuffed about this. Well done!

[fungus pudding]

This one will cheer you up, NeopoleII! We slipped up badly not noticing this story a month ago. Now it's in today's ODT. Ice Cream.

"Since doing trials, the product has been sold for the past month or so to boarding schools and there were some "really trendy" restaurants in Christchurch selling it. ... From Monday, the Blis ice cream will be available from the Gourmet Ice Cream Company's shop in Birch St [Dunedin]. He hoped there was also export potential. " http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/165313/ice-cream-business-not-licked-despite-quake-hit

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Gourmet-Ice-Cream-Company/381244327149?sk=wall
http://www.hospotrade.co.nz/news/introducing-a-world-first-probiotic-icecream.php
http://www.gourmeticecream.co.nz/

I'll bet the folk at Blis are pretty chuffed about this. Well done!


Don't get too excited. That brand of ice cream is hardly likely to set the world alight. I've never seen it for sale outside a couple of small theatres in Dunedin. And then it only sells because there is no other brands on offer. It's not very good and costs $2.50 for a very small tub. If something like trumpets were sold alongside at the same price or a bit more, Gourmet wouldn't sell at all. :(

[emearg]

Thanks for the list, Emearg. ".ch" is in Switzerland, by the way, not Germany.

I just assumed Germany because Google offered to translate it from German to English. I have updated my list...

[emearg]

Don't get too excited. That brand of ice cream is hardly likely to set the world alight. I've never seen it for sale outside a couple of small theatres in Dunedin. And then it only sells because there is no other brands on offer. It's not very good and costs $2.50 for a very small tub. If something like trumpets were sold alongside at the same price or a bit more, Gourmet wouldn't sell at all. :(

Interesting how the article makes it sound as if GRAS has been achieved. Pity reporters so often get the details wrong!!

[emearg]

Don't get too excited. That brand of ice cream is hardly likely to set the world alight. I've never seen it for sale outside a couple of small theatres in Dunedin. And then it only sells because there is no other brands on offer. It's not very good and costs $2.50 for a very small tub. If something like trumpets were sold alongside at the same price or a bit more, Gourmet wouldn't sell at all. :(

Fair point but the important thing to focus on is they have gotten it into icecream in a way they obviously think is efficacious and marketable. That is better than talking about the possibility of having it in icecream, yoghurt etc etc. This may lead to other players jumping on the bandwagon over time. It is better to see small steps that could lead to bigger leaps in sales than seeing nothing.

[emearg]

This one will cheer you up, NeopoleII! We slipped up badly not noticing this story a month ago. Now it's in today's ODT. Ice Cream.

"Since doing trials, the product has been sold for the past month or so to boarding schools and there were some "really trendy" restaurants in Christchurch selling it. ... From Monday, the Blis ice cream will be available from the Gourmet Ice Cream Company's shop in Birch St [Dunedin]. He hoped there was also export potential. " http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/165313/ice-cream-business-not-licked-despite-quake-hit

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Gourmet-Ice-Cream-Company/381244327149?sk=wall
http://www.hospotrade.co.nz/news/introducing-a-world-first-probiotic-icecream.php
http://www.gourmeticecream.co.nz/

I'll bet the folk at Blis are pretty chuffed about this. Well done!

Does this mean I will get to have icecream every night soon for the benefit of my health?? Maybe I should start taking a lozenge in the morning as well in preparation for the tasty transition to icecream? ;)

[brucea]

Ummmm was it me that posted some time back that my cat Nigel needed to take Blis K12 because his breath can knock you down at times? Voila! The Germans have come up with a product - albeit for dogs. The trick now is to catch the little b****r and hold him while he sucks on a Blis lozenge. Now does anyone know if that ice cream is available in Auckland? I love the stuff and would feel less guilty eating it if it has Blis K12 and a lower fat content.
Recently I emailed Blis saying I found a novel use for the K12 product for a mild skin condition I have on my head and forehead that goes by the depressing name of "senile keratosis" (in my case it involves patchy areas of scaly itchy skin). I swabbed the affected areas with a 1/4 lozenge dissolved in a little warm water and was astonished by the improvement in the skin with the unsightly scaling greatly reduced after several weeks of treatment. I recommended Blis follow up with trials (I suggested they exclude the fillers in the lozenge being the active ingredient). Whether the K12 has some anti inflammatory action on this skin condition I am unsure, but for me it works. Sadly I can report it did not make the hair on my head grow back......

[simla]

Fair point but the important thing to focus on is they have gotten it into icecream in a way they obviously think is efficacious and marketable.

I agree. Given that the company has put a lot of effort into GRAS, it's interesting reading what the last Blis report says about GRAS.

First, as background, Wikipedia tells us that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generally_recognized_as_safe

"A GRAS designation typically exists in one of three forms:

Self-affirmed. The manufacturer of this chemical or substance had performed all necessary research, including the formation of an expert panel to review safety concerns, and is prepared to use these findings to defend its product's GRAS status.
FDA-pending. The manufacturer has performed all the aforementioned due diligence, and submitted to the Food & Drug Administration for GRAS approval.
No comment. The FDA has reviewed a product's GRAS claim and responded with "no comment"; i.e., no further challenges on the product's GRAS status."

Now, the last Blis report says on p8, "This self-affirmed GRAS status is required to commence marketing developments aimed at the food and medical sectors. It was anticipated that the company would have completed the self-affirmation process and that an application would be filed with the FDA in early 2010 ... [now delayed to June 2011.]"

But p12, "Once the self-affirmed GRAS status is achieved, this will allow sale of Blis K12 for use in food products in the United States."

Now, how you read that is up to you. But to my mind it could be read that the self-affirmed status will be satisfied very shortly, perhaps June ie this month, and that they will then apply to the FDA. Then the FDA process will take a few months to complete assuming no troubles, but are Blis anyway potentially immediately in a position to kick off actual sales to food manufacturers? (If so, talks are presumably well under way.)

By way of example, here's some companies confidently announcing that self-affirmed GRAS is great, and seemingly seeing no need to comment on going to the FDA.
http://newhope360.com/business-directory/ganeden-biotech-obtains-self-affirmed-gras-status-probiotic-ingredient-ganedenbc3
http://newhope360.com/food-and-beverage/omniactives-lutemaxr-free-lutein-and-lutein-esters-achieve-self-affirmed-gras-stat

On the other hand, for example, this company was waiting for the FDA. (http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Regulation/Baobab-GRAS-dossier-in-an-answer-in-less-than-180-days)

This report, November 2010, (http://archive.functionalingredientsmag.com/article/News-and-Analysis/more-companies-pursuing-self-affirmed-gras-status.aspx) says, "It is believed that only a small percentage of the total self-affirmed GRAS determinations are ever submitted to the FDA." On the other hand, "What I suspect is happening is that many of the really big food companies – the Coca-Colas, Nestles, Krafts and Cargills – are more interested in functional ingredients for food and beverage products. They are being contacted by ingredient manufacturers, but generally won't include them in their products until the manufacturer has a 'no- objection letter' from the FDA in hand." Note, "For its part, the FDA is swamped, said Endres, who just returned from a meeting with agency officials in early November. “They are really overwhelmingly busy.""

For those interested, here's a fairly full discussion of GRAS. (http://www.bdlaw.com/news-1043.html) "From 1998 through 2009, 79% of GRAS notices resulted in a “no questions” response, 16% were withdrawn, and 5% were found to provide an insufficient basis for a GRAS determination." "since 2001 FDA guidance has indicated that FDA will try to address most GRAS notifications within 180 days. According to FDA, since 1998 it has responded to approximately 12% of GRAS notices within 90 days while requiring more than 180 days to respond to more than 31% of GRAS notices." "FDA recognition of GRAS status is not a requirement for being GRAS; however, for commercial reasons, food manufacturers commonly seek FDA recognition."

And those waiting for Blis to appear on the GRAS Notice Inventory (http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fcn/fcnNavigation.cfm?rpt=grasListing) might like to notice that the latest application that appeared there this week had an application date of about a month earlier than it appeared this week.


All of which boils down to this: If Blis achieves self-affirmed GRAS shortly (which requires an expert panel only according to wikipedia, not the FDA) will Blis be able to generate food-related income from that time forward? Or will it have to wait for FDA approval? Perhaps the answer lies in the middle: very big food companies want the FDA approval, smaller companies might proceed with just self-affirmed GRAS maybe?

It's your call what you think the answer is. But that ice cream, plus the gum, plus probably the yoghurt might be pretty interesting when added to achieving self-affirmed GRAS via an expert panel.

The last Blis report said on p12, "The company has also successfully completed a project aimed at protecting BLIS ingredients from ... high water environments". Beverages then? And "Yoghurt producers in the US are expected to be early adopters of the BLIS K12 ingredient and significant work has been undertaken to ensure that it will survive during the shelf life of the product." And, "aim was to have the ingredient ready for food products"... "with this technology now developed it means that potential customers now have the option to make new types of food and beverage products from a more diverse background".

I guess we may hear more about this from the AGM, one way or the other.

ps. GRAS seems to be necessary for animal food too.

pps. As always, I'm never advising anyone to buy, sell or trade Blis or any other share. Each investor has their own decisions to make. I post here in the hope of discussion of publicly available information! Comments anyone?

[simla]

That email from the company about the annual report being available online soon suggests they are confident the new web site will be operational 30 June, presumably with online sales. The last Blis report said (p9), "Once the website [with web based sales] is operational, expected in June, the Company will commence executing its web-based marketing strategy." It will be interesting to see what that comprises.

[simla]

Already we are beginning to approach the conversion time for preference shares - next May. As I read it, $1 face value preference shares convert (loosely speaking) into a dollar's worth of ordinary shares at the price prevalent late next April (there's a formula on p14 of the last Blis report), except that they must convert at a price between 1 cent and 4 cents (ie between 25 and 100 ordinaries per $1 preference share.) So the relative value of the two shares is not yet set in concrete. Check that for yourselves, naturally.

Both types of shares, however, are obviously worth their portion of future profits (give or take crowd psychology.) And that basically depends on sales revenues naturally. A rising tide lifts all boats, as they say.

Meanwhile, the huge downdraft in the world economy seemingly affects more and more of our lives, which is tiring.

So, cheerful thought for the day: Can you ever imagine a time so depressed that nobody will buy a (Blis K12) ice cream?!!

[fungus pudding]

So, cheerful thought for the day: Can you ever imagine a time so depressed that nobody will buy a (Blis K12) ice cream?!!

Yes. The first day they try that Gourmet ice cream rubbish.

[emearg]

That email from the company about the annual report being available online soon suggests they are confident the new web site will be operational 30 June, presumably with online sales. The last Blis report said (p9), "Once the website [with web based sales] is operational, expected in June, the Company will commence executing its web-based marketing strategy." It will be interesting to see what that comprises.

And goodness knows most IT projects run to schedule and budget...

[emearg]

Yes. The first day they try that Gourmet ice cream rubbish.

Obviously some people like it (or they wouldn't have a business) so perhaps a slightly more open mind would be beneficial?

You only have to read the RBD thread to see how many people hate KFC and yet it makes a lot of money!

[neopoleII]

""A rising tide lifts all boats, as they say.""
so my $1 shares are worth 5cents and then the 4million odd pref shares get converted by 100 to 1 and then added to the common share total...... divided by company value = ?
i think my boat has a big hole.
when all shares get converted to ords..... will the 10cent divi for prefs be given to all ord holders next year?

or part there of?

my guess......... we will be asked to stump up again.
my holding has been diluted so much, Blt should patent blis gas........ or better still k12 aroma for well being and m18 oral airator ......... better still ...... m18 + k12 vapor mouthguards you wear at night which keeps you healthy and fixes your teeth.

maybe they should talk to FPH and do a deal with their medical ventilators in hospitals......... now that is a winner!

[fungus pudding]

Obviously some people like it (or they wouldn't have a business) so perhaps a slightly more open mind would be beneficial?


I've nerver seen it sold outside of fundraising type outfits and only when nothing else is available. Given a choice, next to nobody would ever buy it.

[mccollr]

Came accross as very exciting on TV3 tonight. A real positive plug.

[fungus pudding]

Came accross as very exciting on TV3 tonight. A real positive plug.

What did? Surely not that damned ice-cream!

[fungus pudding]

Came accross as very exciting on TV3 tonight. A real positive plug.

What did? Surely not that damned ice-cream!

[simla]

Yes, the ice cream. Written version here. http://m.3news.co.nz/3news-display.aspx?aid=216384&title=Probiotic-ice-cream-licks-sore-throats Or full video http://www.3news.co.nz/3-News-Full-Bulletin-June-24-2011/tabid/315/articleID/216387/Default.aspx and move the slider to 20:07.

"But when it goes on sale in supermarkets later this year".

That coverage surely didn't happen by accident? Very good.

[fungus pudding]

Yes, the ice cream. Written version here. http://m.3news.co.nz/3news-display.aspx?aid=216384&title=Probiotic-ice-cream-licks-sore-throats Or full video http://www.3news.co.nz/3-News-Full-Bulletin-June-24-2011/tabid/315/articleID/216387/Default.aspx and move the slider to 20:07.

"But when it goes on sale in supermarkets later this year".


That coverage surely didn't happen by accident? Very good.

Yep - good publicity. Certainly beats the Target program findings earlier in the week.

[simla]

I take it you mean the "What's really in our food", that didn't think yoghurt bacteria was proven to achieve much.

That ice cream story was good for several reasons. 1. Ice cream for sale in supermarkets later this year. 2. Coverage on TV3 news. 3. Launch of a new product might be accompanied by a marketing campaign. 4. Publicity can't be bad for the share price, you'd think? 5. Does it indicate new activity to promote Blis in NZ generally maybe?

One of the great things about this company is it never loses the ability to surprise us with what it does next. That was a very professionally presented item that augurs well.

[simla]

That ice cream story sure is ... food for thought. Launching ice cream into NZ is surely a long way down the road that we're hoping GRAS will achieve in the US. It's putting K12 into a food that people like, and the supermarket is the high foot-traffic environment that could make a big difference. The ice cream section of the supermarket is usually fairly big and visible, too.

And maybe it will be accompanied by a marketing campaign. And the new web site is coming on line. And that may have marketing to match too. It will produce bigger margins on sales on the web site anyway.

I shall certainly be watching this with much interest. What growth will it produce in the NZ market? And will that be of sufficient scale to noticeably affect total sales? Who knows, but most fascinating.

[fungus pudding]

That ice cream story sure is ... food for thought. Launching ice cream into NZ is surely a long way down the road that we're hoping GRAS will achieve in the US. It's putting K12 into a food that people like, and the supermarket is the high foot-traffic environment that could make a big difference. The ice cream section of the supermarket is usually fairly big and visible, too.

And maybe it will be accompanied by a marketing campaign. And the new web site is coming on line. And that may have marketing to match too. It will produce bigger margins on sales on the web site anyway.

I shall certainly be watching this with much interest. What growth will it produce in the NZ market? And will that be of sufficient scale to noticeably affect total sales? Who knows, but most fascinating.

Try the ice-cream before you get too optimistic. I have, and if it sells well I'll eat my hat, which although it's a little old and grubby, will taste better than that damned ice-cream. (They once bought out a Speight's flavoured ice-cream, so at least they're prepared to test markets.)

[simla]

Well, Gourmet Ice Cream's facebook page's latest post says "selling like hot cakes". Early days, of course. http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Gourmet-Ice-Cream-Company/381244327149

Their website http://gic.co.nz/products.html says "several New Zealand ice cream gold and silver awards as well as being judged the best Vanilla Ice cream in New Zealand by Taste Magazine in November 2005 and also being the only ice cream company selected in Cuisine Magazine Top 100, April 2006."

Early days, but definitely a fascinating development to seemingly see the GRAS strategy rolling out in NZ already.

[brucea]

Well I for one will buy it and look forward to seeing it in the local Mt Eden supermarket. I prefer the taste of high fat ice cream (and high fat yoghurt), but in fact I buy low fat ice cream & yoghurt versions for health reasons so the Blis product seems a health winner to me. The TV3 news item is great publicity.

[fungus pudding]

Well I for one will buy it and look forward to seeing it in the local Mt Eden supermarket. I prefer the taste of high fat ice cream (and high fat yoghurt), but in fact I buy low fat ice cream & yoghurt versions for health reasons so the Blis product seems a health winner to me. The TV3 news item is great publicity.

Frozen polystyrene would be cheaper, taste better and possibly healthier. :cool:

[simla]

A possible implication of some of this is that the sale of GRAS products in the US may be more advanced than we've been assuming. The ice cream technology is fully functional obviously. The last report said other food technology was complete, as discussed above. And perhaps it's possible sales can proceed in the US with self-affirmed GRAS which may be imminent, as discussed above.

The obvious fly in the ointment of that theory is the curious sentence in the last Blis report saying, "These initiatives are expected to reduce the operating deficit in the 2012 financial year...", p5. Still, things take time to pay off.

But as usual we're trying to guess the state of being. I think the current share price probably represents shareholder fatigue at guessing, rather than the state of the company itself. Last year was pretty hard to read, for example, and we still don't really know what the explanation was.

Blis is both a startup and a publicly listed company. The combination is certainly not an easy one for shareholders. The company can't tell us so much of what is happening, or its business partners would not deal with it. But that leaves us having to surmise so much. And with a final share price of a startup like BLT being anywhere between one cent and 10 dollars, for example, which is a thousand-fold range, it would be bizarre if we did not care what happened.

I don't know what the answer is for shareholders of a publicly listed startup. We can just sit back and wait to hear after the event, or continue to surmise the meaning of that bits that we do know. But the implications are quite big. Is the current low share price an absolute bargain, or the combined wisdom of an informed market?

[brucea]

Frozen polystyrene would be cheaper, taste better and possibly healthier. :cool:
Thanks FP for taking the time and effort to do a taste trial of this Blis K12 ice cream ahead of the rest of us! I will let you know what I think of it when I finally get the chance to try it myself.

[simla]

This looks like it might be the GRAS safety trial. It is recent and involved humans anyway. This presumably counts as published safety data, but self-affirmed GRAS probably requires an expert panel as well ie. another step at least? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691511002821

"Received 2 May 2011; accepted 10 June 2011. Available online 21 June 2011."

"Thisdata demonstrates that the daily ingestion of S.salivarius K12 over a 28-day period does not adversely affectthe human host and supports the safety of its oral delivery in a food-based carrier."

What a lot of time and effort and money went into achieving that simple little sentence!! It's a strange world we live in.

[fungus pudding]

Thanks FP for taking the time and effort to do a taste trial of this Blis K12 ice cream ahead of the rest of us! I will let you know what I think of it when I finally get the chance to try it myself.

I doubt that I am ahead of many ice-cream eaters. It has been around for years. It's just that nobody buys it. Adding another ingredient that nobody buys won't help either of them.

[emearg]

Try the ice-cream before you get too optimistic. I have, and if it sells well I'll eat my hat, which although it's a little old and grubby, will taste better than that damned ice-cream. (They once bought out a Speight's flavoured ice-cream, so at least they're prepared to test markets.)

You have tried the new K12 blend, or just the higher fat product?

[neopoleII]

is the ice cream available in NZs biggest city?

[fungus pudding]

You have tried the new K12 blend, or just the higher fat product?

Just their standard stuff. If the addition of K12 can make it less revolting, or even more like typical NZ ice-cream, all power to them.

[brucea]

is the ice cream available in NZs biggest city?
Apparently not, but I understand it is likely. I wonder if Blis is attending the following? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10735010
Just a comment about the taste of various ice creams - I find the low fat Zilch product uninspiring yet it sells well; the Tip Top yoghurt ice cream is low fat but is REALLY nice & creamy (Go on FP, give it a try if you haven't already and give us your verdict)

[winner69]

Surely Tip Top are not putting BLT bugs in their icecream .... yuk and yuk again ... disgusting

Worse than that chocolate company that put palm oil in their chocolate without telling anybody .... I feel a Facebook campaign coming on ... Tip Top can't be behaving like this

[brucea]

Surely Tip Top are not putting BLT bugs in their icecream .... yuk and yuk again ... disgusting

Worse than that chocolate company that put palm oil in their chocolate without telling anybody .... I feel a Facebook campaign coming on ... Tip Top can't be behaving like this
No, no, no!! Tip Top make a yoghurt ice cream NOT a Blis K12 containing one ...so stop the Facebook campaign

[winner69]

I love that yoghurt ice cream (esp the strawberry stuff) when the supermarket actually has it ... is their bugs in that (besides the natural yogurt making ones of course ... assuming they actually put yoghurt in)

The website is a bit useless when it comes to what is in different products

Might have to stick to the good old trusted hokey pokey ..... no funny stuff in that I would say

[brucea]

If you read the Tip Top vanilla yoghurt container it will tell you what is in it eg low fat ice cream - milk, liquid sugar, water, glucose syrup (from maize), milk solids non fat, cream emulsifiers (477,471), vegetable gums (412,410), food acid (Lactic acid), flavour, colour (160a), and finally yoghurt 25% (skim milk cultures). Yep, no funny stuff in that I'd say ......... And owned I think by a NZ company called Fonterra

[simla]

Well, it seems Frutarom thinks GRAS is imminent anyway. http://www.fitnesshomeblog.com/tag/leduc/

“Bliss K12 is about to attain GRAS status which will open the door for food applications,” Leduc notes [vice president of health for Frutarom North America]. “With GRAS status, we expect more products — for example, yogurts and ice cream — to feature BLIS probiotics.”

It will be nice to hear clear news on this front.

[emearg]

Well, it seems Frutarom thinks GRAS is imminent anyway. http://www.fitnesshomeblog.com/tag/leduc/

“Bliss K12 is about to attain GRAS status which will open the door for food applications,” Leduc notes [vice president of health for Frutarom North America]. “With GRAS status, we expect more products — for example, yogurts and ice cream — to feature BLIS probiotics.”

It will be nice to hear clear news on this front.

I wouldn't take too much notice of his positive spin.

When K12 HAS received GRAS then we can celebrate.

[simla]

I wouldn't take too much notice of his positive spin.
Sometimes I feel like someone died around here and I didn't notice! It was just a little article and it's hard to see what Frutarom could gain from it. Sometimes a spade is just a spade!

[simla]

Another release from BLT on the NZX. http://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/BLT/announcements/5213380/BLIS-Technologies-Limited-Press-Release-Article

More NZ publicity. Fabulous! The more the better. That's 3 stories in a just a couple of weeks: the ODT, TV3 and now this. I'll be delighted if NZ is to be the target of an ongoing campaign, as will many of you, I'm sure.

It's great that Throat Guard is gaining position in the NZ market. Can that level of consumer interest translate into other countries? Well, that's the 64 million dollar question, of course.

And, "BLIS Technologies owns over 2000 beneficial strains of bacteria that are known to exert some degree of protection against bad bacteria that might do us harm." I haven't seen that before. It sounds very promising, but rather hard to know what the implications of that would be. How many are commercial, and at what cost? Who knows. Very interesting though.

[Bobby_Fischer]

Simla, the cynic in me suspects we may be being softened up for something we may not like. Nothing in that release is really "news" - the growth projection for NZ products has already been mentioned. The fact that Throatguard had moved into 3rd position in its market sector at end 2010 would have been news at the start of this year, not half way through it. I'm struggling to divine the real purpose of this announcement - BLT has not been noted in the past for such warm and fuzzy news releases.

[simla]

Yes, the purpose of the release was not entirely clear. But have you noticed they've just opened their new website too? http://www.blis.co.nz Complete with a website-launch special.

A very nice looking site from what I've seen so far.

So I'm hoping this is indeed the start of Blis engaging with the NZ public. We'll see.

[neopoleII]

the only thing i can gather from the release is............

there was a lot of mention regarding the bug outbreak in europe.
blt has good bugs that could help....... throat guard
blt cant afford to advertise in europe.
blt is hoping some news network might pick up the release and run it on prime time news in europe.

other than that....... its all old news.
blt is hoping to get a free ride on the growing nervousness in europe.

im all for that!

[Bobby_Fischer]

Yes, the purpose of the release was not entirely clear. But have you noticed they've just opened their new website too? http://www.blis.co.nz Complete with a website-launch special.

A very nice looking site from what I've seen so far.

So I'm hoping this is indeed the start of Blis engaging with the NZ public. We'll see.

I didn't realise the new site had now gone live (wasn't when the NZX release first came out), so maybe they are trying to attract attention to the new site (how though)? Don't imagine Pharmabroker, who get a mention in the release, will be too pleased if too many sales are diverted direct to Blis though, since hopefully all middle men are being bypassed in the process and Blis (i.e. we shareholders) are receiving nearly the full retail price (- P&P in this case).

[simla]

M18 has made it onto the Huffington Post via Dr Katz. Not bad! (If you don't know what that is, you should. "The Huffington Post is ranked the most powerful blog in the world by The Observer." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Huffington_Post)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-harold-katz/probiotics-oral-health_b_870307.html

It wasn't listed on the front page (that I saw anyway) but made it onto the "Healthy Living" section front page, which probably has a fair reading population. And the article contained several links to Therabreath, but didn't contain product names.

The TheraBreath MultiSymptom ProBiotics return 361 real results in Google (37 pages of results) and shows up in about a dozen blogs that I can see. This article in May stated, "TheraBreath Multi Symptom Probiotics are now available exclusively at your local Walgreens drugstore through the Fall of 2011, at which time they will be available at most major drug stores in the U.S." http://www.articlesolve.com/articledetail.php?artid=138623&catid=36

Dr Katz is on Wikipedia too, by the way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Harold_Katz That states he writes on The Huffington Post, and has appeared on shows like Good Morning America, ABC News, Fox News, NBC News, CBS Early Show, The View, The Morning Show with Mike and Juliet, The View and the CBS Early Show. This man is active in reaching out to end consumers. He's persistent at it, which is the key to most skills in life. Start, carry on. Always a good strategy (as BLT is showing us with all this ever growing business progress. )

[simla]

Hey, Brucea, I don't suppose that was you starring on the Testimonials section of the new Blis web site?

Great site. Very, very professional. Well done indeed to all involved.

Interesting to note that other products can be easily slotted onto the site, as it's set up. Culturedcare Gum maybe? M18? Could be interesting to watch.

[brucea]

Hi simla, yes, 'twas me bemoaning the fact that I have to spend $$ importing M18 products from the States because it is not available in NZ!
Hey, Brucea, I don't suppose that was you starring on the Testimonials section of the new Blis web site?

Great site. Very, very professional. Well done indeed to all involved.

Interesting to note that other products can be easily slotted onto the site, as it's set up. Culturedcare Gum maybe? M18? Could be interesting to watch.

[simla]

When K12 HAS received GRAS then we can celebrate.

Sorry if I sounded cross, Emearg. Being ultra cautious is something I can only manage within limits, given my natural exuberance!

I'm not particularly cautious about them getting GRAS because it seems pretty likely, given the excellent safety study and the fact that both BLT and Frutarom seem fairly confident of it.

But also because I can't tell how much difference it will make even if/when they do get it. My gut instinct is that the ice cream really changes the game, but I can't think through the logic for why or how that should be so. There haven't been any probiotic food additives that I've ever seen to date, so it's virgin territory. Plus it still has to attract an audience and grow its market, just like before GRAS.

My gut instinct is that the ice cream means the company will definitely succeed now. But I have no feeling for when that will be - sooner or later? I still see bumps in the road ahead, even if I now feel the road is definitely leading somewhere. That's just my opinion, naturally.

So it's not that I'm not being cautious about GRAS so much as I haven't a clear feeling for just how that will play out even afterwards. No doubt we will see. As always!

Anyway, it's been an interesting couple of weeks. Ice Cream, TV3, GRAS safety study, web site. Impressive work by the company.

[simla]

Brucea, good on you for the testimonial. I've used both the expensive and the cheap freight options from the States, and was surprised to find they both arrive at about the same speed. By the way, I've been trying Garden of Life Rapid Immune, and I've come to quite like it (despite a weird taste.) It seems to be more designed for intense colds etc than for daily use, though, but I could be wrong.

[weasel]

Great site. Very, very professional. Well done indeed to all involved.



Can't agree with you I'm afraid. I am very disappointed by the site - I expected a fresh, clean look. What we got was a mess of random clipart, every fontsize/colour/underlined/italics/ known to man. It's ugly. Click "Product Guide" - it is a totally and utterly *un*professional.

[simla]

I imagine you'd like to see easier access to consumer information. It does require some clicking through to get that. It might be streamlined by the front page being divided roughly into two main "boxes", one devoted to "tell me about the product" (with a little detail already there), and the other half "buy the product". And the "probiotic answers" page might be more useable if it stayed as a left menu, with the other pages coming up on the right? Basically the front page is graphically more oriented to online sales rather than being a sales blurb perhaps?

But that sort of thing is the mark of a mature website? It's working out how to make the visitor experience even easier and cleaner, after time and feedback.

What I think they've already done really well is:

- put a lot of effort into adopting the clean, bright graphic look of toothpaste and other high volume consumer products, normalising the product
- assembled all the right stuff onto one site
- been willing to put the health case
- oriented it towards being a pleasant experience for consumers, time may streamline that
- put together a pretty professional on-line sales site (some on the net are pretty amateur, surprisingly)
- allowed for the addition of new products easily

So I'd still give it 8 out of 10, which is pretty good for a first launch. Yes, they'll probably simplify the consumer information click-though with a bit of time, but I'm still impressed. That's just my view though.

[winner69]

sales and marketing dept at blt not very busy at the moment - all this self adoration is a bit too much

[brucea]

Thanks Simla - the fast post option just about doubles the price of the Nature's Plus Dental Care, so on my next order I will try the standard postage. Pity it is not available in NZ although I suspect the markup would make it much the same price as getting it from the States. I recently discovered a work colleague is a great fan of Throatguard and she is interested in the M18 product line.

[emearg]

Can't agree with you I'm afraid. I am very disappointed by the site - I expected a fresh, clean look. What we got was a mess of random clipart, every fontsize/colour/underlined/italics/ known to man. It's ugly. Click "Product Guide" - it is a totally and utterly *un*professional.

If the Product Guide section was designed and built by an eight year old in 1998 it would be considered okay.

I recommend this page be submitted to the international worst web pages competition. All it is missing to be the winner for sure is an animated gif.

Yuck!

I wonder how long the 3 for 2 offer be available i.e. how long will it take them to sell four grands worth of product? Maybe they could set up a poll on their site to let us guess? Nothing a MS Access backend couldn't support :( Yuck again!

On a more positive note, I still don't have a cold...

[Chippie]

I am no expert on web sites. But it looks pretty good to me.

It is easy to navigate and easy to find the product I want to buy. The pricing works for me also.

[Bobby_Fischer]

Well, I haven't seen it before anyway: http://www.phpure.com/denta-ven-30-vcaps

[brucea]

Good find! I see the product on a few web sites including the following http://www.leekemp.com/athletenutrition/category/shop/organ-gland-health/teeth-support/ If anyone finds a site that will post to NZ please let me know.

[THEONE]

Any predictions for Annual Meeting? I assume if there was going to be a rights issue soon, they would have to have announced it by now?. Plus in the Annual Report sounds like they have enough cash untill next year. However they were also talking about alternative sources of funds? Odds of rights issue sometime look high. So this is weighing in on the shareprice alot.
but i am still confident that Blis will do well in future, great product, cheap to make.K12, M18 just need to wait for new markets and the big companies to take up.
I find the product for dogs interesting, has their been any studies with k12 in dogs?( i think this is a new one)

http://www.wysong.net/products/documents/monographs/Dentatreat%20%5BMonograph%5D.pdf

[emearg]

Any predictions for Annual Meeting? I assume if there was going to be a rights issue soon, they would have to have announced it by now?. Plus in the Annual Report sounds like they have enough cash untill next year. However they were also talking about alternative sources of funds? Odds of rights issue sometime look high. So this is weighing in on the shareprice alot.
but i am still confident that Blis will do well in future, great product, cheap to make.K12, M18 just need to wait for new markets and the big companies to take up.
I find the product for dogs interesting, has their been any studies with k12 in dogs?( i think this is a new one)

http://www.wysong.net/products/documents/monographs/Dentatreat%20%5BMonograph%5D.pdf

It is interesting how the pet products are appearing. A lot of people spend a lot more on their pets health than they do on their own. It is hardly a game changer in the short term but it isn't to be sneezed at either!

[simla]

That's a clever find. So clever, in fact, that I can't quite decide if it definitely is Blis. Seems likely, and yet it doesn't actually say so. But very clever find.

Yes, if, if there is to be a rights issue, then when? Doing it "now" has the advantage of being in a strong position afterwards. But there may be other considerations. Plus the last report said, "the directors are considering alternative sources of funds to enable a more timely investment in [GRAS]", but did not say what those sources might be. However, after the AGM there is only one scheduled announcement (November half report) for about a year, so interest may wane later unless they have other news up their sleeves. And would they announce a rights issue before the AGM? I could see reasons why you might, but as usual time will tell us when or if there will be an issue. We can only guess.

[pierre]

To be successful in selling to the pet market I think the company's first step should be to change the name of K12 to K9.

[emearg]

To be successful in selling to the pet market I think the company's first step should be to change the name of K12 to K9.

But then people would infer it is only for dogs which isn't correct.

But marketing "K12 for your K9" should be pretty easy...

[simla]

And yet another K12 dog product, this one in Japan. http://sofia.zk.shopserve.jp/SHOP/b11-a0173.html The video is delightfully upbeat and worth playing. It drops out a bit though, so move the slider back and push play a second time after a bit for the uninterrupted version.

And this Japanese page is selling and recommending using Epoca for dogs, after saying it was developed for humans. http://item.rakuten.co.jp/sofia-pet/a0170/&usg=ALkJrhijFdWx6rxHKY-pUEvsCWD5vEq11g

And this American pet site is selling Now Oralbiotic K12. http://ct1.matchmypet.com/Dog/pet-store/product/B003P7YVTQ/Now-Foods-Oralbiotic-Blis-K12-60-Count.aspx

And so is this (American?) dog site. http://dog-firstaid.com/593-518216011-B003P7YVTQ-Now_Foods_Oralbiotic_Blis_K12_60_Count.html

Dogs are looking like a good market.

[brucea]

I checked the web sites out but it was not clear whether they were all selling this for humans rather than dogs. The Japanese site talks about smearing the dog's teeth with the paste - maybe I should try this on Nigel the cat with the stinking breath - that's if I can catch him and hold him down! I am aware that tartar buildup in cats and dogs can cause bad breath and teeth scraping by a vet would be the best solution then maybe followed up with use of a Blis K12 product to prevent it building up again. Has anyone heard about any GRAS developments?

[simla]

The first Japanese website translation includes, "This supplement is in the pet industry is the first time.", and the second "Pet Oral Care (for cats and dogs)". I took that to mean it was definitely for dogs. The American sites were less clear, I agree, but everything on the sites did seem to be for dogs, so I incline to thinking that is the idea. Don't forget that dogs have very similar bodies to humans, and pet owners can be pretty keen.

For those unclear on how to translate, just paste the website address into http://translate.google.com, and then click on the website address that comes up next to it.

[Jay]

Just as an aside
We give our cat a "dental" food once a day after having a build up of plaque etc after advice from the vet, well actually he said replace the normal food you give her , but she is not that keen on it and so we give to her once a day and then normal biscuits for evening feed. Improved the plaque no end according to the vet.
Our cat is also hard to pin down to give anything to, well for us anyway, the vet has the knack!

[brucea]

Thanks, I have tried the dental biscuits which are crunchier and I guess help remove plaque, but he wasn't that fussed on it. Cooked chicken necks can help. Has anyone seen Blis K12 products for felines?

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Jay try your cat on RAW chicken wings it works wonders (do not give your cat a cooked chicken wing though)

[emearg]

Jarrow have released a gum that contains K12 & M18. They also have a very similar looking lozenge product.
http://www.blisk12.com/news/jarrow-oral-probiotic-gum/

It is excellent to see M18 in gum!

[brucea]

Thanks Emearg for this find - it must be brand new as I cannot find what sites presently list it and the cost ...and of course yet another Blis M18 product that wont be available in NZ.... still with the NZ/US dollar exchange rate that probably does not matter if one is prepared to pay for the postage

[simla]

Another nationwide product by the look of it. That's good. Nice packaging. I wonder what the AGM will reveal, in the middle of a very difficult world economy.

[Jay]

Jay try your cat on RAW chicken wings it works wonders (do not give your cat a cooked chicken wing though)

Thanks ptc, I will try that