BLT - Blis Technologies [Archive] - Page 9

simla

29-07-2011, 02:56 PM

The update for another AGM released. Very interesting, as always. Many thanks to the hard working team at Blis who probably feel they deserve an easier time from the world economy!

https://www.nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/211826

GRAS status achieved. "GRAS status, will dramatically expand market opportunities for the company", "The company has plans to immediately start promotion to food manufacturers such as ice cream, yoghurt and other dairy producers in the United States."

And just when you thought Blis couldn't tell us the unexpected any more, "the company has acquired the assets of the Dunedin based ice-cream company, The Gourmet Ice Cream Co", "it provided necessary cash flow to assist in the global roll out" and lets Blis into the dairy market.

Exchange rate and sales revenue mean "an increased operating deficit in the current financial year". Accordingly, "The terms of the Share Purchase Plan including the price for new shares will be announced in coming weeks."

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/143347.pdf

In the presentation, "For food applications, yoghurt, ice cream and powdered beverage are the initial delivery vehicles planned." Powdered beverage is a new one?

Well, GRAS is meant to be the big one ("dramatically expand market opportunities"), but they apparently don't expect that to show on the bottom line this year ("an increased operating deficit in the current financial year"), but which has just 8 months left to run now. However, might we shareholders reasonably hope for things next year?

We live in interesting times at present, so we will no doubt see how this all plays out. Meanwhile - and as always - individual investors have the opportunity of judging the return they expect on Blis in future and to decide if each views the current share price as an opportunity. That's what news is for.

brucea

29-07-2011, 04:15 PM

!!! Great news from Blis and well done for gaining GRAS approval!! Now if you guys at Blis can just hurry up and make that ice cream available in Auckland...and Nigel the cat is waiting with baited breath for a feline version of Throatguard (he went to the vet on Wed to have his teeth cleaned at over $400, so if K12 works on felines this should save him money in the future)

simla

30-07-2011, 01:39 PM

The new NZX page on BLT seems to be stuck showing Thursday's prices for this weekend. A glitch presumably, as it's a new look site.

Actually the price rose. Here's a different site to view in the meantime if you want http://home.nzcity.co.nz/finance/sharemarket/company.aspx?symbol=BLT

POSSUM THE CAT

30-07-2011, 03:36 PM

SIMILA you must be looking in the wrong place this link up to date according to DB https://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/securities

simla

30-07-2011, 05:49 PM

Thanks. I think they must have fixed it since then, as my link now works too.

Hard to know how to react to the news. The GRAS is excellent news, of course. We just don't know what to make of it. Wouldn't it be great if we were looking at this potential: "Yakult Honsha Ltd of Japan, managed to sell 30 million bottles of probiotic drinks a day throughout the world" http://thestar.com.my/health/story.asp?sec=health&file=/2011/3/13/health/7877605 But that is presumably after some considerable effort and time. That article also says they make "280,000 bottles of Yakult per day to give this new entrant to Malaysia an estimated 30% of the local cultured milk pie".

That article also discusses the advertising aspect of probiotic foods. In Europe we know things are tough, but which Blis has reported they see some room for hope with. In the US, the advertising of food probiotics seems to be controlled by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), who are stirring the pot with probiotics, but are quoted in that article as, "Companies shouldn’t exaggerate the strength of scientific support for their products", which leaves plenty of room to advertise still - especially given the strong research with Blis already.

If GRAS means Blis can more directly advertise the benefits of the probiotics, that could be pretty good.

NZ and Australia are looking at doing that too with Proposal 293 http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/foodstandards/proposals/proposalp293nutritionhealthandrelatedclaims/ but that has been in the pipeline for many years. http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumerinformation/nutritionhealthandrelatedclaims/healthclaimsstandard5081.cfm Still, it looks like it will make it into law sometime, but not yet. I haven't found anything yet on what the various Asian countries require.

In the meantime, there is some money to raise, and more partners and more market penetration to pursue, along with more regulatory work. The company is obviously a whole lot further down the road than it was though. And meanwhile in nationwide distribution, they now have Bioguard Advanced, Therabreath Multi Symptom Probiotics, and Jarrow Oral Probiotic Gum, plus numerous supplements across the US, and in multiple countries.

What to make of Blis buying the ice cream company? Who knows!

THEONE

30-07-2011, 07:08 PM

Very interesting AGM, did anyone here go? I would never have guessed the acquiring of Ice Cream company! I bet there must be very good reasons for it other wise Barry Richardson would not be interested. Must have beeen a great deal. There are lots of possibilities. As usual they have a lot of things going on. I think the Blis team does a great job and deserve congratulating. I am suprised the shareprice wentup so much, i thought the SPP would have scared people. Hopefuly the US dosent turn to custard even more, so they can sell decent volumes.

simla

30-07-2011, 08:11 PM

Well, each investor has to make their own decision of course, TheOne. But the SPP is a two way street. Yes, it involves raising money. But afterwards, don't you have a company with cash in the bank, and GRAS in it's pocket, plus product credibility in the marketplace? Well, that's not too bad a proposition is it? Each to make their own decision on that, of course.

emearg

31-07-2011, 07:09 PM

Achieving GRAS is excellent news!!

Personally I hope the shareprice falls over the next month or two :)

Bobby_Fischer

01-08-2011, 12:09 PM

Chippie

01-08-2011, 01:19 PM

I don't understand why they (i.e. we!) are buying an icecream business, and I'm not happy about it. I thought I was investing in a Biotech and that old homily "Stick to your knitting" comes to mind. Barry has a milk-products background and maybe he sees an opportunity, but this venture is not part of the Blis business strategy the rest of us shareholders subscribed for.

Yes, I agree. Do we know what BLT paid for the Icecream business? I can only assume that it is a very profitable business that will pay for itself in less than 12 months. Otherwise it should be left for Tip Top to purchase.

The GRAS news is excellent however and more aligned to the Business Strategy.

fungus pudding

01-08-2011, 02:23 PM

Yes, I agree. Do we know what BLT paid for the Icecream business? I can only assume that it is a very profitable business that will pay for itself in less than 12 months. Otherwise it should be left for Tip Top to purchase.

You can't be serious. I very much doubt that Tip Top even knew this outfit existed. They certainly would be no threat whatsoever to any manufacturer that makes even half-pie reasonable ice cream.

simla

10-08-2011, 09:43 PM

Some of you may like this. This company has added M18 to their existing K12 product. They don't state exactly what's in this, but it appears to be a plain lozenge with just K12 and M18 in it. If so, it's the first one I've seen without lots of other stuff added on the side, which seems pretty sensible.

http://www.carotec.com/product/Blis-K-12_30/21

Cannibal

11-08-2011, 05:51 PM

I know that this is a few months old but bear with me...

Blis and Nestle partners in new programme
Sat, 26 Mar 2011http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/files/user12591/Richardson_Barry_hs_081107__Small_.jpgBarry Richardson

A more "robust" Blis K12 probiotic has become commercially available and a new multi-year research and development agreement has begun.
This includes a Nestle option for rights over a "specific application" of the Blis K12 probiotic, Dr Richardson said.
"The exact nature of the current research and option agreement between Blis Technologies and Nestle Nutrition is commercially sensitive and confidential," he said.

When allied to the recent GRAS approval is this a cause for optimism? Could this be a food product that they have been working on for a while knowing that GRAS was a given?

Nestlé is the world's largest food and beverage company.

brucea

11-08-2011, 06:23 PM

I recall reading on this site a few months back that there was a K12 product in Germany that was developed for treating canine bad breath. I have googled but have been unable to find any link to such a product. Given the safety record of Blis I have been giving my cat a small dose of Blis K12 by sprinkling Blis Boost powder on his cat food. Knowing how cats are VERY suspicious of anything being added to their food I was surprised he took the treated cat mince food very readily. He is an old cat who recently had his teeth cleaned to reduce his bad breath problem - this helped, but the addition of K12 has improved his "breath score", he no longer has his persistent hacking cough and he appears very healthy. I have no idea whether Blis K12 would in fact populate his oral cavity and whether his improvement is due to K12. If K12 was effective with cats (and dogs) this could be a significant market for Blis, though would entail significant studies to confirm If anyone can supply me with the link to the German product for dogs, this would be appreciated.

simla

11-08-2011, 07:25 PM

It was German language, but in Switzerland. http://www.dara-swiss.ch/produkte/halitus/index.html But the product is surely going to do just what the NZ K12 does, so that might be a cheaper option. Especially if, as you say, your cat doesn't carefully eat his way around it as cats do!!

brucea

11-08-2011, 07:54 PM

Thanks simla
If the Blis Boost powder works it will be more economic than getting the little b****r's teeth cleaned at $400 a go! The vet stocks a canine mouthwash that looks not unlike Colgate Plax, but less volume and costs over $30 a bottle which is apparently added to the animals drinking water. I doubt if most cats would touch it given their fussy natures. Nigel is quite unfazed by the Blis Boost K12 powder and licks the dish clean. I had some reservations about experimenting K12 on him, but given it's GRAS approval I am certain it is harmless on cats and heaps safer than the flea medications we subject our animals to each month. Given the wide range of products the pet shops and vets sell I would think that Blis K12 (if proved effective on cats and dogs) would be an interesting market for Blis probiotics.

It was German language, but in Switzerland. http://www.dara-swiss.ch/produkte/halitus/index.html But the product is surely going to do just what the NZ K12 does, so that might be a cheaper option. Especially if, as you say, your cat doesn't carefully eat his way around it as cats do!!

simla

14-08-2011, 10:55 AM

Sorry, Brucea, I have no idea if you should give K12 to a cat. Not my area.

I wonder when we'll hear more about the SPP?

simla

23-08-2011, 05:42 PM

And there's the SPP details announced. It seems a fairly shareholder-friendly issue at first sight, which is good.

neopoleII

23-08-2011, 06:33 PM

""and will participate equally in all distributions""
this is in the last line of the SPP.
now....... what have i missed..... i have never had a distribution, unless they mean my $100k has been distributed to management over the last 10 years.
i think this is an unfair statement by the company intended to sucker in more punters by hinting at a distribution.

neopoleII

23-08-2011, 06:35 PM

anyone here buying their maximum share of $15k?

emearg

23-08-2011, 08:07 PM

Looking to raise 39 million??

simla

23-08-2011, 08:38 PM

If all 2535 shareholders put in $15k, then yes, $38m seemingly. But only 8.6% of shareholders own over $5000 of shares (valued at 5 cents, as in this offer - ie over 100,000 shares.) (p47 of the last report).

I'll read the prospectus first NeopoleII, but personally I don't mind backing the company some more. But each investor will have their own ideas on this one.

Being a prospectus (presumably) we might learn some interesting stuff, too.

Nigel

23-08-2011, 11:04 PM

So do we expect the shareprice to fall under 5c tomorrow? After all, why wouldn't you sell to the guy offering 5.5cents, then buy back at 4.85c?!
Plus there will be a dilution of holdings once the extra shares are issued.

I never thought we'd see 4-5 cents again, but hey, I think we may see it in a day or two! Despite the wallowing stock price, I think there's still a decent future for this company. A lot has been achieved in the last few years, yet the shareprice hasn't gained any traction! One day (maybe).

emearg

24-08-2011, 06:42 PM

My thoughts (without having seen a prospectus (so they may change)) is there has never been a more sensible time to buy into Blis than now, and at this price it is a very tempting opportunity.

Personally I have been keen to buy more over the past year or so but the numbers traded are so low I haven't had the opportunity.

I suspect Blis has another two years before grocery sales (made possible with GRAS) start to have a substantial effect on revenue but I have no doubt Blis will get there given adequate funding.

simla

24-08-2011, 09:27 PM

The Blis investor news page currently has a "letter" with more on this, under "Share Placement and Share Purchase Plan". http://blis.co.nz/default/investor-relations/investor-relations-news.html

simla

25-08-2011, 07:59 AM

That letter said sales growth so far had been "much slower than expected by our major distributor". p2. http://blis.co.nz/media/pdf/PMH-493686-26-20-2_Letter_to_Shareholders_August_2011_FINAL_v2.pdf

It's mentally reassuring to hear the company say they had hoped for more in sales growth by now, too. It wasn't just our little group here who hoped that was a reasonable possibility. But it's a tough market out there just now.

Well, that's details of the Share Purchase Plan. When will we hear about the Share Placement?

Captain Ramjet

25-08-2011, 12:16 PM

this share is nothing but a dog and has been since it was first listed. Why anyone would throw good money after bad is beyond me. Do yourselves a favour, cut your losses and walk away.

simla

25-08-2011, 03:24 PM

Yeah, not exactly a stellar performer on profit so far.

However,

1. The company is still aggressively expanding.

2. Long term investing is still legal !

3. Some of us are quite happy to invest in the future of the country our children will live in.

scamper

26-08-2011, 11:17 AM

i have a growing suspicion that some blt holders are trying to shift the sp, or are silly beyond measure.
who could really justify buying 1000 blt for all of $60 plus 50%? for brokerage?
methinks there is a gamesplayer among us.
everyone should take serious notice of volumes changing hands -- and forget all chances of finding trends...

simla

26-08-2011, 02:38 PM

"Market in awe of $60 bid!" Personally, I've thought for a while that some fund has a small holding of BLT and is obliged to make small mathematical adjustments from time to time, presumably brokerage free.

I wonder when we're going to hear more about the share issue?

simla

26-08-2011, 03:49 PM

Here's a story on the ice cream. http://www.itmaru.org.nz/newsline/?p=1444

"Gourmet Ice Cream sales manager and former owner ...said the K12 ice cream was still a couple of months away from public release. “We want to get some experience with the local market before we start exporting,” he said. “There is a huge amount of potential, especially in the Asian market.”

simla

06-09-2011, 09:55 PM

This perhaps counts as a new product format of K12? It looks interesting anyway. "Consuming one child-friendly, bear-shaped supplement each day can help prevent common ear infections and sore throats in children." "Each package contains 20 vanilla-flavored chewable BLIS K12 bears, sweetened with Xylitol, a natural sugar substitute. " http://www.nutritionhorizon.com/news/Anlit-Launches-New-Probiotic-Product-Supporting-Immune-Health-for-Children.html The company seems to be in Israel.

I can't find a photo, but this might be a similar concept product from the same company? http://www.anlit4kids.com/web/8888/nsf/ProLookup.taf?_function=details&_ID=3668&PF=16&did=1217&G=7648&lang=EN&SM=

"Anlit will launch the new supplement to retailers, marketers, pharmaceutical and dietary supplement producers at CPhI. [on October 25-27]"

simla

08-09-2011, 03:59 PM

The "terms and conditions" on the SPP have arrived in the mail. It says the maximum share issue is about 41m shares (clause 2.8 (b)), at 4.85 cents (cl 2.2), or about $2 million (by my maths, anyway). All applications reduced on a pro-rata basis if that is exceeded (2.8 (b)). https://nzx.com/files/attachments/145628.pdf

Blis announces Edinburgh is applying for $500,000 worth (about 10m shares I make that) https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/213516

So, unless there are other parties to the Share Placement, then the total to be raised should be $500,000 plus whatever the shareholders will cough up, to a maximum of around $2m. (Check all the maths yourselves, naturally.)

At this point, then, and if my maths is right, that looks like a tidy new issue that doesn't dilute existing shareholdings too much, but should put the company on a stable footing for cash for a while. Personally speaking, I'm pretty comfortable with all that, and will send in a cheque.

But each investor will make their own decision obviously. Currently, confidence levels are pretty low around the world, and many will be fixated on that. Others may expect the sun to still rise in the morning regardless of all that. And the company has yet to make a profit, of course. But it also has a reasonably solid business story to sell, too, depending on your point of view. Presumably some small shareholders might see this as a chance to cheaply stock up a bit, if they like the company's business position.

It will be fascinating to see just how much shareholders cough up. The $1000 minimum might attract some, too.

Whatever happens, I'm happy to thank the company for running an issue that (as I read it presently) seems fairly shareholder-friendly. I hadn't expected it to be quite so early, but I'm happy with that too.

emearg

14-09-2011, 07:54 PM

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Industry/Study-supports-safety-of-BLIS-K12-probiotic-strain

emearg

14-09-2011, 07:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIA6pjtzYYE&feature=player_embedded

Amusing and educational for the younger viewer :)

tango

16-09-2011, 02:31 PM

I haven't decided whether to apply for shares. When I look at Blis they have consistently overpromised and underperformed. I think the product is unique and has a lot of potential but without expert marketing and reliable forecasts I don't trust them. I think their expetise is in R&D. To succeed they need to be expert marketers. They have created some partnerships that have potential but without better management and marketing I'm skeptical that they will ever perform. Even companies like F&P Health with a proven track record and outstanding growth prospects aren't performing well on the sharemarket as most people don't want to invest long term (and the exchange rate isn't helping returns).

Scuffer

16-09-2011, 04:33 PM

Tango I think you are right great product but nobody is buying it because they don't know about it or the benefits of using it the You Tube link (thanks Emearg for posting that link) was good but the yanks realise the health benefit of a healthy mouth and throat, having said that the You Tube video wasn't promoting Blis. Marketing is the key, when the penny drops in the public eye will Blis have disappeared from view, I think it will have run out of money by then. If blis can get the public to want to buy the stuff in products, companies are gonna want to put it in their products until then they are still selling chewing gum, yoghurts, milk, mouthwash, toothpaste etc. People don't realise that an unhealthy mouth can cause strokes and heartattacks etc. if you look back in time oral hygiene killed off millions before we developed a good understanding of medicine.

tango

16-09-2011, 06:12 PM

Yes cute video.

Bad breath is one of the top health concerns that people have. It should be a cinch to sell the product. The fact that nearly every report from them starts with something along the lines of "sales for the period have been below forecast" says that they are either overly optimistic or crap marketers. If you look at their website and imagine you have no idea what a probiotic is (lots of people don't know the word) or what ThroatGuard will do and you can see why they are failing. If their website doesn't convince you to buy I think it's a reflection on their overall marketing.

I'm really torn. The part of me that believes the product and the technology is world class wants to invest more money. The sensible money says

It's throwing good money after bad - they consistently underperform against forecast
I want to strangle the Board for further devaluing my shares by issuing them at such a low price

If only they would get someone on the board who has a proven track record for taking new biotech products to market.

tango

16-09-2011, 06:20 PM

Looking over the old press releases reminds me... I was in the US last month and there was no sign of the products anywhere in any drug store or health store. They must have extremely low market penetration. I spent a lot of time in the various chains (Walgreen, Rite Aid, CVS, Whole Foods) in 4 different cities. There were lots of probiotics and bad breath remedies but Blis was conspicuous by their absence. To me the fact that the stores didn't reorder says that Blis didn't do enough marketing to drive consumers into the store to purchase, or provide packaging or point of sales to support to encourage customers to try it.

brucea

16-09-2011, 08:45 PM

Well expressed tango; I have continued to support Blis because I considered the product had great potential, but alas even in NZ there is hardly any awareness of Blis K12 among most people I have spoken to. The promotion style of Blis K12 seems to me to be rather staid and conservative, hardly the stuff to encourage people to buy it. I fail to see how things are going to improve even though Blis K12 has GRAS approval unless there are significant changes in strategy at Blis. I will apply for more shares one final time, despite my flagging support for Blis. I enjoyed the video but could not see any connection to Blis K12....

simla

16-09-2011, 09:55 PM

Certainly the sales are the issue. To improve sales requires one of three things: (a) BLT's partners successfully connecting to lots of customers; or (b) Something making it easier to advertise; or (c) The company working out how to improve things within it's own resources.

It certainly has been the intention of the company, right from the beginning of this strategy, to engage with partners who can successfully market, on the grounds that BLT doesn't have large resources. And that strategy has been to start with smaller companies to engage the interest of the bigger companies, which makes sense. Now, the latest release from the company today https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/213865 says "we have been actively engaged in discussions with some of the world’s largest dairy producers". So GRAS may open some doors to more marketing clout? Or to more welcome products (even a tiny percentage of the US yoghurt market would be good news surely.) Also, as I read GRAS (and I have struggled to find a clear statement of this sorry), the restrictions of advertising the benefits of Blis are much eased with GRAS. Dietary supplements have considerable restrictions on advertising, but GRAS seems to let you make open claims so long as you can prove them. However, even if I've read that right, it still requires someone with marketing dollars.

BLT sales revenue for the last three years have gone: In the US 325k, 760k, 976k; in NZ 146k, 192k, 217k. Elsewhere has been up and down. So the dietary supplements revenue is growing fairly strongly, but from a low base compared to expenses. Will GRAS see that change? (And will Gourmet change that?) Will one of the business partners make a connection with a large customer base? Will a large marketing-oriented company sign up? Will opening into a consumer market such as yoghurt change things? Certainly, from my point of view anyway, the dietary supplements revenue will eventually pay off, but not seemingly in a hurry unless someone breaks through to a bigger group of customers. So GRAS is welcome to me.

I have bought shares in this issue personally because I see a viable dietary supplements revenue coming up from below as a backstop, but I hope that GRAS will change the game. Clearly the company is hoping so: "We understand this [yoghurt/dairy] market very well and definitely see ourselves operating within the global dairy industry in the future", and "Until now the Company’s BLIS K12 probiotic has been limited to sale as a dietary supplement, which is a small market when compared to the massive food industry in the United States", and "GRAS status is expected to rapidly expand market opportunities for the company and enable the BLIS K12 probiotic to be sold to many major food manufacturers in the United States" (nzx rlelease above.) However, I'm also proud to support a Kiwi company in it's hard working efforts. It keeps a few more NZers working, and stops more brain drain, while bringing a really good product to NZ and the world.

It's a start-up company still though. We don't know how this is going to work out. Each must make their own choice what to do now.

Scuffer

16-09-2011, 11:02 PM

I see this company disappearing unless they get some major publicity every dentist and health practioner should be touting this stuff on their patients get them on your side blis and you have a winner

tango

17-09-2011, 08:56 AM

I wonder if selling it as a dietary supplement is the right approach. Look at Listerine - sold for bad breath as part of the teeth brushing routine. It's cleverly marketed as being horrible tasting but effective.

Scuffer is right about the dentists as an avenue for promoting the products, and as Brucea says the promotion is staid and conservative. It's also too technical: they focus on the technical aspects of the product rather than the end results (better breath, reduced risk of throat infections etc etc). They're not thinking about what customers want they're thinking about the product. They need to think about their market.

As for the dairy market, Fonterra would eat this product up and market the heck out of it. Look at their Symbio probiotic yoghurt. They've got Lorraine Downes of all people marketing it for digestive health and flatulence!!! Personally I'm not convinced about ice cream as the delivery method for the Blis. For one thing, it's high in sugar and in a world of obesity and diabetes ice cream is a treat not a daily food. It's also seasonal. Plus being high in sugar will multiply bacteria. Whether it will multiple only the good bacteria or only the bad, I'm not sure but I think it's a strange combination. They need to market it in things that people can carry with them and pop in their mouth or as part of their daily routine to have with breakfast (which makes yoghurt a better choice), as a pill, etc. They've done a lot of things right with the product development but the marketing is crap. When you look at the Board the Chair supposedly has a background in strategic planning but it's from a technical perspective i.e. developing the products, getting FDA approvals, protecting IP. An innovative marketer could do amazing things with this company.

Who here is buying their allocation? I'm inclined to let it pass until they can start producing reliable forecasts and show they are getting on top of the marketing. Creating partnerships is great but they're relying on other companies to market it (other than doing an ecommerce website for direct sales. It seems to me that they're going to expand into Europe using the same tired marketing. It doesn't matter how good the product is, you can't sell a secret and you can't sell something that people don't understand.

pierre

17-09-2011, 10:12 AM

I think that these guys are doing something very worthwhile though the company's limited resources don't make their task an easy one.

More and/or better marketing may well be the answer in the dietary supplements arena but it's an expensive exercise, results aren't guaranteed and without GRAS approval, claims about benefits would have been quite restricted. Now that GRAS has been achieved the door is open to change this game to some degree but the food industry is surely where the prize really lies.

I'm heartened by the news that they are in discussions with some of the world's largest dairy producers (Fonterra may well be one they are talking to) as the opportunity in the food ingredients market far outweighs anything that could be achieved in dietary supplements. Blis will never have the financial resources to initiate promotional campaigns of the scale required to attack international markets but the Fonterras and Nestles of the world certainly do.

I'm buying more shares. Even though it feels a bit like taking a fairly expensive Lotto ticket I believe that the chances of a win are much better - even if it's only a second division prize I'll be happy.

tango

17-09-2011, 12:55 PM

I'm buying more shares. Even though it feels a bit like taking a fairly expensive Lotto ticket I believe that the chances of a win are much better - even if it's only a second division prize I'll be happy.

Good analysis!

I bought the shares when they were around 9 cents so I've lost a bundle already.

I agree that they're unlikely to succeed without more money, but that's only because of the way they market. There are cost effective ways of marketing but as their marketing material, packaging and overall approach needs improvement spending more money wouldn't help. Yes, a partnership with Fonterra would be exciting and the products are unique and have lots of potential. The execution needs improvement and so does their forecasting. I'd trust them with more of my money if they weren't constantly making forecasts they fail to meet, or if they were a well known brand here in their home country.

simla

17-09-2011, 06:27 PM

Guys, let's just remember that these guys have soldiered on in the face of very difficult times in every country in the world. An important reason for my putting more money in this time is my own confidence that these guys don't give up.

We all want them to do what they can to increase sales. Sure. But it would be absurd to think they want anything else themselves.

As yesterday's release said, "The Company has been entirely focused on obtaining GRAS status ... for the past two years." The release surely is saying that they think this is an excellent path to increased sales. They planned on getting GRAS earlier, but it just kept getting harder. They pressed on anyway. Then got it. Yeah, that cost.

So, surely they HAVE announced a major plan to improve sales - GRAS - and are working hard at it. Will that work out well? Would a different plan be better? (Anyone actually got one, given the resources?)

Well, every investor has a decision to make there. Investors can only reap the rewards of their own decisions, that's how it works.

But let's not use a complex decision to overlook how hard these guys work. I'm always happy to thank these guys for all their work - I do it again now - because I think we are very lucky to have them. They've moved small mountains already.

brucea

18-09-2011, 07:45 AM

I had not read the Blis release on 16/9 when I posted my last message; since reading it I am pleased I had already decided to invest further in the BLT share offer and am willing to soldier on supporting the company. As I have said many times before I consider K12 a great product and has a huge potential if marketing is a successful. I watched a documentary on TV7 a while back on how bottled water was marketed - how many of us would have invested in such a product given it is on tap and free (almost). BLT shares were always highly speculative, so I have taken any share value loss on the chin. And let's face it - BLT is not a boring share for those of us willing to take risks! All the best you guys at Blis for the foray into the food industry.

emearg

18-09-2011, 06:39 PM

Like I said when this capital raising was announced I don't think there has ever been a better time to invest in Blis

With GRAS achieved Barry and Frutarom have an opportunity to sell their product into a huge market. Based on the successes achieved so far (uptake by manufactures of lozenges etc (even though revenue growth have been underwhelming)), and on-going support (500k speaks volumes IMHO) from insiders I am more willing to back Barry and his vision than ever before.

I'm in for 15k

Grimy

18-09-2011, 08:52 PM

I know it is quite a different situation, but I hope this doesn't end up like BIO-ICP a few years back, burning it's investors (including me). Seemed to have so much promise......

tango

19-09-2011, 09:26 AM

Guys, let's just remember that these guys have soldiered on in the face of very difficult times in every country in the world. An important reason for my putting more money in this time is my own confidence that these guys don't give up.

But let's not use a complex decision to overlook how hard these guys work. I'm always happy to thank these guys for all their work - I do it again now - because I think we are very lucky to have them. They've moved small mountains already.

I don't think working hard means anything without core marketing skills. Yes the GRAS approval is a major milestone but I don't think that perserverence alone is nearly enough to be blowing $15,000 on a company that doesn't have the fundamentals right. Yes, they may work with other companies that can effectively market it but their strategy is confused. They've announced an ecommerce platform to sell direct to consumers but at the same time they're looking at partnerships. They're not doing either one of those things well, so far. Have they got an amazing product? You bet. If you want to take a punt that they will partner with someone that helps them develop it into a more marketable proposition then I guess it's worth buying a $15k lottery ticket. I'd rather put my money somewhere else.

simla

19-09-2011, 01:01 PM

That's fine, Tango. As I've said before, I'm never here to advise anybody to buy, sell, or trade Blis or any other share. Every investor has their own decisions to make. I'm just here to have discussion on publicly available information that we each may find each others' thoughts - such as you've just given - helpful in clarifying our own thoughts. I expect that the time when we all finally agree with each other will be the time when BLT is making a cheerful profit! First that has to happen, and no guarantees with any startup company on that, of course.

Impatient

19-09-2011, 03:21 PM

Gosh, must have been over a year that I last viewed this thread - and it feels like Groundhog Day. Well, not quite. There is a new generation of rightfully sceptical investors who are getting the hunch that there is something serious wrong with this company.....and then there is 'simla', still the cheerleader for Blis' management, which after so many years of such miserable company performance goes beyond being a supportive, optimistic investor....to me, it's crystal-clear now: Simla is either an employee or Blis or a person otherwise affiliated with Blis (and not just as an investor).Simla, the only decent thing for you to do would be to 'out' yourself for who you are, so that forum members here can see your comments for what they are .... pro-Blis PR intended to suck more poor buggers into spending money on this money-burning furnace of a company.

simla

19-09-2011, 05:24 PM

Hey, Impatient! Nice to hear from you again! Points to you this time, as the situation has altered definitely, but regrettably not to produce a profit yet.

And good to hear you gingering things up still. I'm afraid I remain nothing more than a keen investor, however. I say nice things about the company just because that's what I think. To me, the launching of the product is a big challenge, but the reward should be equally big if it succeeds. I have always, always, referred to the uncertainty of the enterprise - and that's why I'm happy to stay the course. I am not getting disillusioned because I always knew it would be a challenge. The launch as a dietary supplement got me pretty happy, as there are around 50 products out there now containing Blis. But it hasn't produced a profit to date anyway.

But, yes, I'm still backing this horse. I remain open to it's not turning the world on fire, just as I always have. But I also have the same basic views: great products, great company. But whatever happens, I enjoy Blis-watching. It's a spunky company that always manages to surprise. And, yes, I remain optimistic of this paying off. But there is still no telling where this is going yet.

I guess if we could bottle my dogged optimism, we could sell that for quite a bit too. From my point of view though, I don't see why everyone else gets upset when problems arise. This is still a start up, so why be surprised when the course isn't straight?

Cheers.

ps. I may yet be wrong about Blis's future obviously, never said otherwise. But the mere fact of my staying the course hardly proves me wrong. Churchill spent some years saying that Britain should be arming against Hitler, in face of much disagreement. Didn't make him wrong either. We've discussed before you're being "Impatient" and my being "Patient"!

simla

19-09-2011, 10:03 PM

pro-Blis PR intended to suck more poor buggers into spending money on this money-burning furnace of a company.

As I am only human, that did of course hurt. This is one of the main reason's I defend the company. They too are real people who obviously work hard. Comments like that hurt. I always assume that the company, like me and most other people, mean well, and work hard at things. So when things don't go as well as we would like, I don't lash out, but thank them for keeping going in what must at times surely be discouraging work. It is a huge task they are undertaking.

I may as well make a few points in clear reply to the accusation, since it has been made:

I have no afffiliation with the company other than being a keen shareholder.
I definitely have skin in the game.
I am unable to think of any advantage to me of other members of this group putting money into the company. I assume the company will get sufficient money anyway. The Board alone are putting up about $600,000 according to this release https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/213516
On the other hand, I have put in 15k myself. I do not imagine most shareholders will be doing that, so actually most shareholders are benefitting from my money, if anything, rather than the other way around.
Anyone who reads my comments know that I frequently refer to the uncertainty of investing in a startup. I do that far more than anyone, as far as I can see. I incessantly make it clear that each investor makes their own choices.
I have actually made very little suggestion on what people would do about this issue. I acknowledged it happening, briefly discussed the obvious pros and cons to contribute to the conversation, and said what my own plans were, as I assume we are all interested in others' thoughts. I welcomed hearing others' ideas. It is excellent knowing how others are viewing things, whether I agree or not.
I did make a stronger comment when I thought the company was getting criticised for having no plan when it did seem to me that the entire point of GRAS is that it IS a plan.

I make those points partly in my defence. But also to demonstrate just why I stand up for the company and also thank them. It is easy to express disappointment in things, but easy too to forget to express appreciation other times. I'm a real person, and those comments did hurt. Blis isn't just an abstract company, but real people who work hard every day I assume. They deserve to be admired and thanked for all they do. And I am happy to do it, especially as I genuinely do appreciate what they do.

brucea

19-09-2011, 11:27 PM

Well expressed Simla!

Nigel

20-09-2011, 09:21 AM

Simla, keep up the great work mate. I very much value your comments and insights. Many of us are grateful for the reasearch that you (and a few others) do on this stock, and I've always appreciated the time you put in. You often reference the uncertainties involved but are clearly optimistic about the company's future. Thanks for the value you add to this discussion.

emearg

20-09-2011, 05:02 PM

Simla I appreciate the analysis but to be honest I tend to skip the thank you sections as they are a bit much for me to take most days. It is nice that you sincerely feel that way, but I see it more as them doing their jobs. Cheers

simla

20-09-2011, 05:21 PM

Thanks, guys.

brucea

21-09-2011, 07:26 PM

This was on Campbell Live tonight http://www.wildfireapp.com/ a social marketing site in the States developed by a young NZ lady - could this site be of use to Blis to promote their products?

simla

28-09-2011, 12:57 PM

Good find! I see the product on a few web sites including the following http://www.leekemp.com/athletenutrition/category/shop/organ-gland-health/teeth-support/ If anyone finds a site that will post to NZ please let me know.

Yes, a real M18-only product. I've got some from here. http://www.phpure.com/denta-ven-30-vcaps It's just M18 and xylitol, which I like. The other products all seem to have extra ingredients, which I don't want personally. Odd product format though: "Open one capsule and empty contents into mouth, ensuring contact with all tooth and gum surfaces." It cost me about NZ$80 for 2 bottles of 30, incl postage.

simla

28-09-2011, 03:29 PM

$1.5 million raised in the issue. Onwards, then. https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/214351

So, according to the last annual report (http://blis.co.nz/media/pdf/PUBLISHED_ANNUAL_REPORT.pdf) and this July press release (https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/211826), we have: some cash in the bank, GRAS in the pocket, multiple countries, dietary supplements, food technology, an ice cream (and yoghurt?) company, other products, pets, a couple of websites, a couple of facebook pages, expansion activities, R&D, regulatory applications (Europe, China, elsewhere), and more. And a difficult world environment, of course.

The company has quite a few irons in the fire now. They're all assets, but they all have running costs too. Increased revenue is always any company's objective.

With so much on the boil, and having seen nothing like GRAS from NZ experience, and in light of the last annual result, I'll be interested to see what sort of news we get next. Half year report in a few weeks.

A tidy issue, though. Personally, I'm happy.

emearg

28-09-2011, 07:29 PM

Yes but half a million short of what their announcement says they needed to raise to meet it's ongoing funding requirements. That isn't good news!

The result shows how unwilling most shareholders are to back Blis with any more money

simla

29-09-2011, 10:36 AM

I didn't see an announcement saying they "needed" $2m, Emearg? This report in Stuff (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/5591600/Pair-apply-for-500k-of-new-shares) is the only one I've seen mentioning $2m at all, and it just said "target". Indeed, they have stated that the cash is for more expansion, plus working capital, I think. https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/214351

The terms of the issue (2.2) (https://nzx.com/files/attachments/145628.pdf) said they were using listing rule 7.3.4 (p87) (www.nzx.com/files/static/NZSX_NZDX_Listing_Rules.pdf), which allows 30% of voting shares. 30% of 138m is 41.1m, the amount stated in the issue terms (2.8 (b)), which is $2m at 4.85 cents.

I'm sure they can always use more, but $1.5m seems like a useful amount. It's about what I was expecting them to get, for some reason.

As to shareholder support, I don't think that's too bad actually. P47 of the last report (http://blis.co.nz/media/pdf/PUBLISHED_ANNUAL_REPORT.pdf) states that only 218 shareholders have more than 100,000 shares, which is $5000 at the issue price of 4.85 cents. So 179 putting up an average $3800 cash ($679k / 179) isn't too bad, is it?

As always, that's just my personal reading of things. Anyway, they now have cash in their pockets, which is good in the current state of world upset.

emearg

30-09-2011, 09:03 PM

simla

30-09-2011, 09:20 PM

Well spotted, Emearg. I missed that.

simla

01-10-2011, 08:15 PM

Just to remind ourselves that Blis did pretty well running that issue just now:

"World stock markets ended one of the most brutal quarters in years on Friday." http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10755815

simla

02-10-2011, 07:56 AM

It's been a pretty hectic year for Blis shareholders, too.

Total world panic as a backdrop, from markets to global warming to overthrown governments. And Blis shareholders starting the year hoping for a profit from supplements. Disappointing annual result. Quite unexpected purchase of an ice cream company. Swift cash issue without asking for shareholder approval. The Sept 16 announcement, that dairy is the future and GRAS is massive compared to supplements, that there remains a challenging period ahead. https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/213865

Personally, I've found it all quite a bit to take in. I wouldn't mind if the company could find time to explain all this to us shareholders just a little more slowly and clearly sometime.

simla

06-10-2011, 12:14 PM

You guys do a good line in silence when you're in the mood! It's true that we live in unsettling times. But no matter what happens next, people will still get up in the morning, still need food, clothing, electricity, medicine. They'll still buy themselves treats, watch movies, TV, surf the net. Society doesn't just stop, it always goes on. And, who knows, they might even buy themselves an ice cream ... :)

emearg

07-10-2011, 01:47 PM

You guys do a good line in silence when you're in the mood!

Been on holiday. 48 holes over 3 days. Nice :)

Three more pottles turned up on my door step while we were away. Nice :)

Society doesn't stop but for most people buying lozenges may not be their top priority. That is why getting K12 into everyday products is so important. People keep buying yoghurt and milk and maybe even ice cream when times are tough.

fungus pudding

07-10-2011, 03:00 PM

simla

08-10-2011, 08:43 AM

The preference shares convert to ordinaries in only about 6 months now, at a rate not yet fixed, and as described on p4 of the last annual report. I wonder how many owners of ordinary shares have remembered to ask themselves the basic question: How will I feel at that time, for the minimum conversion rate, and for the maximum conversion rate, if I own no preference shares; or 100 preference shares; or 1000; or 5000; etc?

However, there's so much going at at Blis now that I suspect many shareholders find it all quite complex. Many are probably just ignoring everything now until the outcome becomes clear.

In 6 months, anyway, hopefully we'll all be able to taste the Blis ice cream for ourselves.

emearg

08-10-2011, 11:35 AM

Not that damn Gourmet rubbish - they won't. :t_down:

Your opinion or a fact?

Have you asked everyone? I presume not as you didn't ask me.

Different people have different tastes. Check out the range at the supermarket. It isn't just the price that varies, but also the taste. Compare Kiwi or Signature Range and TipTop for an obvious comparision. They all sell...just to different people with different tastes (and budgets). I'm not saying they all sell in the same volumes, but they do all sell.

fungus pudding

08-10-2011, 12:38 PM

Your opinion or a fact?

Have you asked everyone? I presume not as you didn't ask me.

Different people have different tastes. Check out the range at the supermarket. It isn't just the price that varies, but also the taste. Compare Kiwi or Signature Range and TipTop for an obvious comparision. They all sell...just to different people with different tastes (and budgets). I'm not saying they all sell in the same volumes, but they do all sell.

Fair enough. Didn't know it had made it to supermarkets. I've never seen it sold in Dunedin away from venues where there is no choice, such as the small live theatres. Seems like it's more of a fundraiser thing for them, with a minute (and I mean it) pottle selling for around $2.50. Although a couple of restaurants used to have it on their menues. They may still have. It's rubbish, not just my opinion. I simply can't imagine anyone buying it against one of the major brands. However I am pleased you like it.

emearg

08-10-2011, 03:35 PM

Fair enough. Didn't know it had made it to supermarkets. I've never seen it sold in Dunedin away from venues where there is no choice, such as the small live theatres. Seems like it's more of a fundraiser thing for them, with a minute (and I mean it) pottle selling for around $2.50. Although a couple of restaurants used to have it on their menues. They may still have. It's rubbish, not just my opinion. I simply can't imagine anyone buying it against one of the major brands. However I am pleased you like it.

No I never said it had made it to supermarkets. I was just making a point and that was that certain people like things that you may not. What you (or I)can or can't imagine isn't really important. I mean, can you imagine anybody buying KFC? I can't but I know plenty do!

Personally I would prefer Blis hadn't bought an icecream business but I can only presume Barry thinks he knows best. He has a lot more shares than me so has a lot more to lose! Perhaps the lower fat versus tastes better? I'm sure they will sell it for a reasonable price at the supermarket as they have real competition there and most people won't pay much of a premium to get some bacteria they don't really understand. Remember that EVERYTHING you buy at the movies is marked up beyond belief so I can't see those prices being translated to a supermarket.

fungus pudding

08-10-2011, 09:33 PM

No I never said it had made it to supermarkets. I was just making a point and that was that certain people like things that you may not. What you (or I)can or can't imagine isn't really important. I mean, can you imagine anybody buying KFC? I can't but I know plenty do!

Personally I would prefer Blis hadn't bought an icecream business but I can only presume Barry thinks he knows best. He has a lot more shares than me so has a lot more to lose! Perhaps the lower fat versus tastes better? I'm sure they will sell it for a reasonable price at the supermarket as they have real competition there and most people won't pay much of a premium to get some bacteria they don't really understand. Remember that EVERYTHING you buy at the movies is marked up beyond belief so I can't see those prices being translated to a supermarket.

But that price equates to more than $10 for a trumpet. :scared: Somehow I doubt that you've ever tried the stuff. It makes KFC a delight.
:D

emearg

09-10-2011, 02:49 PM

But that price equates to more than $10 for a trumpet. :scared: Somehow I doubt that you've ever tried the stuff. It makes KFC a delight.
:D

I haven't tried it. Me liking it or not isn't the key thing though is it. As long as others do!

I don't like KFC or Pizza Hutt pizzas but I have made a fortune out of RBD shares because others do (well, at least KFC!)

Cheers

simla

10-10-2011, 01:19 PM

Actually, I have tasted some (non-Blis) and, yes, I found it in a supermarket. It's quite rich by my standards, but the women in the house thought it delicious. I don't know if that's what you've tasted, of course, Fungus Pudding.

Don't forget that the company has apparently bought an entire ice cream company here. It's not just selling K12 ice cream, but mainly ordinary ice cream. One reason they bought it was for cash flow https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/211826 so this might prove helpfully countercyclical if business conditions do indeed get a bit tough now. I'm guessing they saw a business which could benefit from Blis's management firepower and dairy industry knowledge, and which would be cash flow positive from day one. Plus a showcase for Blis dairy products thrown in. The idea has been growing on me since the initial surprise.

brucea

10-10-2011, 01:20 PM

Well Emearg, I for one am willing to give the Blis K12 ice cream a go when it becomes available in Auckland and will post my taste bud experience on here. I am expecting the taste to be not that different to other low fat ice creams which though not as nice as the full fat versions, are less likely to stick to the waist line and artery walls!! A big plus for me will be the added advantage of it containing Blis K12. I rarely buy KFC or pizzas either and try to stick to foods with the big red tick. I had quite a few Charlies shares but never bought the stuff as I thought it was overpriced and not that great tasting - but the power of clever marketing made it a hit with the younger set. If only Blis could use the same strategy!

Bobby_Fischer

10-10-2011, 05:55 PM

I'm guessing they saw a business which could benefit from Blis's management firepower and dairy industry knowledge

But that is precisely what is wrong with the whole idea! Blis is supposed to be a Biotech not a Dairy product manufacturer/innovator, and whatever management "firepower" (!!) Blis has, should be in the Biotech area - if it really is, then we are in big trouble buying an ice-cream company - if it isn't then why not? and no wonder we've been running at a loss and burning so much cash. The link with Barry's prior experience simply has me thinking he feels out of his depth on the Biotech side and has thrown in the towel there having seen an opportunity in an area he understands better. If the board has agreed to this then the independent voices are in a very weak position. Barry must have convinced Edinburgh to support him - hence the 500,000 - so Edinburgh and Barry are now calling the shots - with our company. How much of Barry's time will now be distracted trying to grow this new play-thing: an ice-cream business? And what impact will that have on the real value proposition in the Biotech area? The idea that the cash-flow from an ice-cream business will support Blis' operations in any meaningful way is simply laughable - if it was such a great investment in it's own right, then it could not have been obtained at a realistic price. I don't buy the argument that the synergies with K12 based dairy-products will add that much value - you don't need to buy your own dairy company to extract those synergies if they are real.

By the way - I am not saying this ice-cream venture won't pay off somehow - Barry may be some kind of Dairy product genius who can pull the proverbial out of his hat - but I reckon it's much more likely to end in tears of some kind.

simla

11-10-2011, 12:50 PM

I see where you're coming from, Bobby, and it's certainly a very old adage: stick to the knitting.

But you could look at it from the other direction, too. Blis said in their last release "we ... definitely see ourselves operating within the global dairy industry in the future" https://www.nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/213865

Why? Well, if GRAS is the far bigger market ("the massive food industry in the United States") then where do probiotics fit naturally? Obviously yoghurt is the big one to date, but ice cream has been a target of many too. Here's one in India recently. http://itsmymarketing.blogspot.com/2011/03/amul-probiotic.html And Gourmet make both ice cream and yoghurt anyway.

Either way, it's dairy as the likely main outlet via GRAS, the most established market that consumers associate with probiotics. Well, Blis do surely need somewhere to try formulations out, or otherwise they are relying on their overseas food business partners to come up with formulations, which is probably not a really good strategy.

So acquisition of a small company to try out the products which at the same time provides cash flow? It surely beats doing it at a loss. And there is an existing staff, so we hope not too much of Blis's time will be needed running it. I doubt this was a sudden decision, and I'm perfectly sure the Board will have all looked hard at such a major decision, too.

As to firepower, yes! Blis has achieved amazing results over just a couple of years. I think we forget that the rights issue was just 2 short years ago. What a massive difference since then.

Sales revenue has lagged, and we're all keen to see that change. But the Board have all fronted up hard cash in the recent issue, and I think we can be confident that that has reminded everyone quite firmly of the advantages of positive cash flow!

Anyway, it's a done deal. So we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out.

simla

13-10-2011, 05:45 PM

Actually, Bobby, the most likely explanation is surely the obvious one: that the ice cream acquisition is a really good idea that fits in well with future plans.

THEONE

21-10-2011, 02:47 PM

Hi Simla, thankyou for your posts we think alike. I think Blis is doing a great job. have you found any news lately? I would like to find out more about the dog product. Another probiotic company which has done well is biogaia. Check out their growth. Hopefuly Blis can replicate. Looks like they have a similar model

simla

22-10-2011, 11:39 AM

Thanks for the Biogaia idea. Here's their own website on their financials for 5 years. http://www.biogaia.com/investors/financial-statistics

Essentially their revenues seem to have grown about 30% compound from 2006 to 2010, as I calculate that. (Their profit figures in that time have grown somewhat fast than that though, which I assume is what encourages you!) Well, Blis's US revenue has gone 325k, 760k, 976k for the last three years, which is about 75% compound. NZ sales have gone 146k, 192k, 217k, which is about 20% compound. And other markets have been flat.

The main things that those Biogaia figures might demonstrate for us perhaps is that there is definitely a probiotic market out there, and that compounding at 30% can get you a long way, and that profits flow once you get through the challenging startup stage?

Overall, I remain cautious however. There's no doubt that the world is in a bit of a panic at present, which affects sales. I'm hoping the world crash is rather like a property market crash: the provinces crash first while the big cities keep going, then the big cities crash, but meanwhile the provinces have started the slow recovery already. As we wait for the big cities to crash (America, Europe, China), the rest of the world (and individuals) have all crashed long ago and are busy trying to mend their cash flows and balance sheets already. It'll still be a long process though.

But yeah, the company really continues to pump out the work. It was all quite a punt when the rights issue came out in 2009, but the situation is very significantly advanced since then. Nevertheless, we'd all be pretty happy to see the crop safely harvested and in the barn, with so many storm clouds in the sky!

Much seems to lie in front of us yet, with the outcome still unknown. Probably about 4 weeks to the half-year report, I imagine.

THEONE

23-10-2011, 11:34 PM

Interesting, Throatguard available in Singapore ?
http://singapore-promotions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Pycnogenol-Mirtogenol-Liquid-Glucosamine-Chondroitin-FoodSource-Ohhlra-OM-X-BLIS-K12-Throat-Guard-Wakunaga-Kyolic-Licithin-Bioscience-CoQ10-Lycopene-Sukoyaka-Collagen-Avalon.jpg.

NaturesFarm has 26 stores a bit expensive though.
It all helps

simla

26-10-2011, 04:10 PM

Here's the General Manager of Food Standards ANZ saying proposal 293 is still on track to be approved in NZ "early 2012" (ie not long now?). The aim is to allow advertising of health claims with food. It would still require Blis to satisfy it's requirements (time? cost?), and want to spend money on advertising, but presumably it would let them make actual claims on the food labelling regardless of an advertising budget, which would be a major step forward for all of us frustrated that Blis cannot claim the product does what it does! I suppose we'll find out some time next year whether Blis are in a position to benefit from this - and if it does actually pass into law. Ironically, as I read it, they could then make claims on food that they could not make on the supplements. http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2011/10/11/slow-progress-on-official-%E2%80%9Chealth-claims%E2%80%9D-food-standard-for-australia-and-new-zealand-but-decisions-on-the-way.html

Proposal 293 is a complex read, though, so I cannot promise it will benefit Blis. That's just my reading. I'm not even providing a link to it as I'm not sure which is the final draft! But it's here somewhere: http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/foodstandards/proposals/proposalp293nutritionhealthandrelatedclaims/index.cfm

By the way, here's an interesting on-line sales site forming in Germany. It says "not currently open". http://www.blis-k12-shop.de/

ps. Belatedly I realise that this would apply in Australia too, and what's to stop them exporting ice cream there? Just a thought.

simla

28-10-2011, 06:00 PM

Europe forces a haircut on Greek bonds. Angela Merkel becomes the first politician to refuse to bow to "too big to fail". Wow!

Will Europe become the first real fight back against the power of mega corporations then? Was that the first real turning point in the last few years of debt being used to defeat democracy?

I have a suspicion that that was a bit of a game changer, that future prospects just got quite a bit brighter for both individuals and non-mega corporations - Blis included. Early days. We'll see.

simla

04-11-2011, 06:42 PM

Here's an interestingly upbeat view of the future. http://howestreet.com/2011/11/the-uncrisis/

"What the fear brigade fails to understand is widespread financial meltdown is impossible so long as the elite fends it off. This is what the G20, the EU, the G8, the IMF, WB, ECB and the FSB ... are all about. These guys make the rules. They can nationalize banks, bail out countries, force taxes and austerity measures, recapitalize institutions, raise or lower interest rates, expand or contract the money supply, regulate or deregulate and in the course of it all, modify human behaviour. That means they can prevent a run on the banks, influence the bond market or make mortgages irresistibly cheap.

"This coordination was taken to a new level following the crisis of 2008-9, and unless we break out in global conflict, it will never be dismantled. Collectively, there is so much power – to create liquidity, to tax, to curb excess, to put out fires – that those who go short on stability and long on disorder will be wiped out.

"Of course, this does not mean an end to occasional chaos, market plunges or panic. But you can forget an impoverished US, a Hovered stock market or people buying food with nuggets. Ain’t happening. The worst financial crisis of an entire generation is in the rear view mirror and the very fact it took place is insurance it won’t again."

Many here can probably remember NZ bottoming in 1992. It took a while to pick up again, but we all knew then that it wasn't going to get any worse. Maybe the world hasn't quite reached that point yet, but it looks like Europe might just squeeze through here after all. America probably isn't going to do anything too dramatic now, given how much has already happened. We still don't know what's going on in China, but it would be a dramatic turnaround for it to collapse in any really big way.

So maybe this guy is right. Maybe the big volatility is starting to pass?

Why am I posting this on the Blis group? Because big drops in consumer and business confidence have surely been the biggest barrier lately. If Europe can come through this in one piece (more or less!) then we might see confidence creeping back in across the world. That'd be good.

All speculation, of course. We'll see.

A couple of weeks to the next report presumably. And a week for the next pref div. Shareholders who backed the issues are still getting a payback, even if the profit is not there yet.

simla

08-11-2011, 04:14 PM

Therabreath keep opening new doors. "We are particularly thrilled that Dr. Oz and the oral care experts of The Doctors have chosen to partner with TheraBreath and help spread the word about our quality products. " http://blog.therabreath.com/2011/10/therabreath-is-coming-to-dr-oz-the-doctors-and-the-price-is-right/

THEONE

09-11-2011, 07:26 PM

M18 now available in aussie at http://www.breezecare.com.au/ausshop/kforce-mouthwash-m18.html Can use discount code k12. Geoffrey Speiser seems to be investing heavily in new branding and new products.

emearg

20-11-2011, 09:46 PM

simla

21-11-2011, 04:26 PM

That looks promising, Emearg. Mums might respond to the simple message "Oral Health", as parents spend some time worrying about their young kids' mouths, teeth and throats.

Looking back on the last year or so, it's obvious we pinned quite a bit of hope of strong sales growth onto one product selling into two large chains. So far that doesn't seem to have changed the game too much though.

Now Therabreath is in Walgreens nationwide, and have created quite a bit of noise on the internet to their credit. The Jarrow gum is also in a large chain, but I see little noise on the net about that so far.

Behind those few products in nationwide chains, we have a ton of other products and we hope their sales continue to grow, but we shareholders have little clear feedback on that to go on.

In addition to that, we have Asia, about which I remain unclear. The products are there, but the sales revenue hasn't been spectacular by any means.

As far as big jumps in sales revenue is concerned, we obviously hope that GRAS opens doors too, but do not yet know what to expect there or when.

The growth in sales revenue is the one thing we are obviously all keen on now, given that the company seems to have made a lot of business progress otherwise. Given that it has been a blistering summer in the US, and that we are not aware of any major developments coming to fruition just now, I guess we're not hoping for too much on that front in the current report though. Major news would be welcome, but steadily chipping away seems the more likely situation just at present, and products like Anlit will obviously help.

brucea

21-11-2011, 06:05 PM

Hi guys, I have been away for 2 weeks so that's why no posts. Before I left I was in chemist at St Lukes buying Travelguard and saw a large promotion for a product called Oragenics Oral Care Probiotic - various strengths available for kids and adults. Looks like they might have stolen the march on the launch of an M18 lozenge in NZ. Very impressive brochure claiming the product was expected to be distributed through the UN, UNESCO, UNICEF and WHO to help support oral care throughout the world. Costs a 1$ a day, but no reference to any Blis probiotic so could be a significant competitor.

simla

21-11-2011, 08:45 PM

If it's Oragenics, it's possibly one of these. http://www.oragenics.com/?q=probiotics They've been in the market for a little while now overseas. The theory is that more than one product actually makes a market bigger (so long as they don't wipe the floor of the other products!) You might see the growth in mobile phones this way, with the product gaining really full market acceptance once you got nokia and blackberry and apple and google all involved. However, the arrival of competition in NZ is sure a reminder that you shouldn't take your home market for granted. Clever of them to think of going through the UN for a market.

THEONE

23-11-2011, 03:25 PM

Great News about China!, Hope they have some good distributors. Its good they are being proactive in regards to Frutatom. Ice Cream company looks like a cheap purchase. I am suprised the shareprice hasnt moved.

simla

23-11-2011, 03:48 PM

Well, that report was what I would call Good Honest Chocolate! https://nzx.com/files/attachments/149700.pdf

Most importantly for me, the company fronted up squarely to say it was unhappy with sales levels and acted very decisively, most significantly by replacing the global distributor. They've also cut back on costs. Considering we've been waiting for a clear sign that the company would decisively tackle the sales situation, we couldn't ask for much more than that. We can't know how that will play out, but I'm very pleased to see decisive action.

Pretty importantly for many will be the profit - or lack of it! American sales to manufacturers stopped dead, seemingly mainly because of changing distributor (see next paragraph, not entirely clear) and research revenue was gone this period too. A loss for 6 months of $1m (page 12), leaving working capital of $1.7m (p14). A solid loss then. "The global environment is difficult and has necessitated a review of our distribution arrangements at significant short term cost to the company in terms of market development and sales opportunities foregone." (p11).

"Strategic priorities, and in particular the realignment of international distribution arrangements to better match the opportunities in the food ingredients sector presented by the achievement of GRAS status for BLIS K12, resulted in supply chain destocking. The associated lull in branded ingredient sales was further exacerbated by market conditions generally; the change in sales strategy of one of our largest North American end-customers meant that in-market promotion of its product was suspended pending completion of licensing arrangements. As a consequence, our United States sales fell from $682k to $8k. Sales resumed into the United States in October but meaningful volumes are not anticipated until our new distributor is appointed in December." (p3).

However, there is good news therein beyond doubt.

China is open for business! Population thought to be 1.3 billion, or 4 times the US. However, we all know the difficulties that NZ companies have had profiting from China, so we will watch this with considerable interest. "The approval represents the end of a regulatory process that commenced in 2008 and will enable NZPR Group to actively market BLIS K12 lozenges and associated BLIS K12 products through their Chinese distribution networks. The Company anticipates that it will soon be assisting NZPR Group with the implementation of its business plan in China." (p6) It's hard to see that this as anything but major news.

"New Zealand trading revenue increased by 76% from $124k to $218k." (p3). "Other trading revenue increased by 14% from $80k to $91k with sales into Australia, Japan, Taiwan, South East Asia, and the launch of our commercial website." (p3)

Action on costs: "Operating costs were contained, reducing in aggregate by $137k or 10% from $1,308k to $1,171k despite a $170k reduction in capitalised development and patent costs and a $23k increase in the amortisation charge for these items. The reduction in costs reflects lower expenditure in relation to regulatory applications and staffing generally, and reduced costs of goods sold."

Gloabl economy: "Regulatory barriers aside, the concerns about the status of the global economic recovery continues to exert an impact on the company resulting in a deferral of revenues in the USA and Asia in particular." (p4) Blis and half the rest of the world too. It's a tough world at present.

Global distributor: "after review, the Company has decided to end its global distribution agreement with Frutarom Ltd ...will take effect from 30 November 2011." That's a big decision. "has signed a letter of intent to appoint Stratum Nutrition from 1 December, 2011." (p5) "Now called Novus International, this business has been operating for over 20 years, in 90 countries with an annual turnover of US$1 billion and has a focus on animal health and human nutrition". “A major strength of Stratum Nutrition and reason for supporting the decision to appoint them as distributors is that they have both a dietary supplements and food ingredients market presence. ... The sales and marketing team for Stratum Nutrition in the USA has considerable experience in working with food companies." (p6)

"Therabreath ... are being sold through Walgreens pharmacies, which have over 7500 outlets throughout the United States. ... It is also anticipated that Therabreath will introduce this product to additional major retail outlets, providing the potential for a significant increase in ingredient sales." (p7)

"Integra Medical has already successfully achieved regulatory approval for its first BLIS K12 based product as a dietary supplement within the Russian market and has now embarked upon several clinical trials to support its application for BLIS K12 based products as an approved medicine in Russia." (p8)

"In Asia, the Company has made slower progress than anticipated. A major company is planning to launch a new product based on BLIS K12 in late 2012 ...projects in Asia based on part-finished products with one project having commenced commercial sales and two projects subject to confirmation of first purchase orders." (p8)

In NZ "By the end of 2010, the BLIS Throat Guard range further exceeded expectations and as at June 2011 has now displaced two other well-known retail pharmacy brands and moved into third place behind the global retail pharmacy brands of Difflam and Strepsils (based on new market research from Synovate)." (p8)

"BLIS is to submit an application for K12 to the EU health authorities." (p9) Good luck to them. Europe just rejected the claim that water prevents dehydration because there wasn't any proof! It will be great if they get it though, and meanwhile "There are opportunities in the wider European market that are not constrained by the regulatory issues of the EU and these too, will be addressed at the earliest opportunity." (p8)

Gourmet Ice Cream cost $225k. It needed more capital, and help "to rebuild the business" (p10) , and now "The GIC plant is now fully operational" (p9) "probiotic yoghurt and ice-cream with BLIS K12 added. The latter is in the early stages of commercialisation." (p10)

"In the past year, two long-serving staff (Chris Chilcott and Jeremy Burton) have left the Company to work in North America" (p10). Very many thanks for all you have done, guys, and good luck with your new futures.

So, the chewy bit: how's it going?

"The receipt of the 2010 Global Probiotics Entrepreneurial Company of the Year award from Frost and Sullivan was an independent validation of the Company and its strategy. That endorsement has yet to be reflected in commercial success." (p11)

"The global environment is difficult and has necessitated a review of our distribution arrangements at significant short term cost to the company in terms of market development and sales opportunities foregone. With GRAS self-affirmed status, regulatory approval in China, the launch of BLIS Functional Foods and our online shopping website, and the pending completion of distribution and associated science and technology support arrangements with Stratum Nutrition, the Company is well-positioned for growth." (p11)

"The Company considers that its global business strategy is sound and as noted below has acted to change its international distribution arrangements in support of the execution of this plan. BLIS Technologies remains dedicated to growing the brand and driving innovation through clearly defined and targeted strategies." (p4)

"Despite the absence of meaningful branded ingredient sales of BLIS K12 and M18 over the previous six months, the Company believes it has the correct business strategy." (p4) Well, that's the main question each investor will be asking themselves. However, a pretty exciting report on many fronts.

The financials probably haven't warmed anyone's heart! But the report was very solid and proactive, with quite a bit of promise to it, I thought. It will be most interesting watching developments from here. Add in GRAS from a few months ago, and there's still a lot happening. Definite food for much thought. I wonder what the market will think.

winner69

23-11-2011, 04:36 PM

You guys either are part of the BLT organisation/management team or madly in love in this dog that you can only believe the good things.

The first sentence said it all .... how long have they been going? .... and this is all they come out with ... "The absence of licensing income and a meaningful volume of branded ingredient sales resulted in the Company reporting a net deficit of $828k before tax and finance costs"

Geez the corner diary sells more than the $300k (or was it $400k) a year .... and they not even listed

Glad you find the positive stuff good ... and the shareprice up 50% so not all bad news eh

simla

23-11-2011, 05:01 PM

Going back to the preference issue, there were four main planks to look forward to:

Supplements. 50 products now in the market, but sales not where we hoped yet. Progressing, and new main marketer/distributor installed.

GRAS. Two long years late due to ever increasing regulatory problems. But achieved. Technology for food also achieved. Waiting to see how this pays off.

Nestle product. Cancelled. This has been the main objective not achieved, although research is underway for maybe something more.

China. Well, well! Tick.

So, revenue is not where we hoped for this point, but the plan rolls on. By the way, did you notice that China includes approval for food.

simla

23-11-2011, 05:21 PM

Your view is perfectly valid, Winner69. As is mine. One of them will ultimately prove to be the better view, since cash will presumably force a result in the end.

The future of a startup is never known, and each investor therefore has to decide what to believe for themselves. Not your average safe investment!

Gutsy company though. No denying that.

simla

24-11-2011, 03:43 PM

From the lack of response in the market, I assume most people saw the loss and stopped there.

My approach is to ask:

How will Blis cope with the big global upheavals that look increasingly likely over the next year or two?
What is Blis's long term outlook?

Both got a big boost from what I saw:

China. I understood them to mean they were selling Blis products already available from NZ, and therefore may be quickish to market.
GRAS. May take some time to sell the first order, but on the other hand yoghurt makers can knock stuff out in a hurry and the technology is ready to run, so who knows. GRAS in China, too.
A fresh set of hands on the distribution front. Hope that helps.
Costs cut. That's good.
Cash in the bank to tide through. That's good too. We still need sales revenue later this year.
A clear indication from that company that sales matter and are being worked on strongly.
Ice cream company seemingly going okay so far, therefore likely to contribute financially.
Web site in operation, presumably with much better margins than through distribution.
Therabreath still planning on opening into more nationwide chains.
Continued progress with a number of business deals opening for business.

I personally see that as quite a useful list of things to make the future safer. Six months ago, the only one we might have expected was number 10. The other nine are news. Good news from where I'm sitting.

What of the bad financials then? Well, each to his own. First, yes, they were awful. But I read it to mean that the larger part of the sales drop this half was caused by changing distributors rather than lack of demand from the manufacturers. It wasn't clear though from the wording, I agree. If it really was sales stopping dead, then that would obviously be concerning. I didn't read it that way myself. We'll know more next time.

And is there demand for the product long term anyway? Well, NZ sales continue to show that, I would have said. It has now reached third in the ranks in NZ despite very little advertising.

So, the financials were pretty awful. But I see an explanation for that, and meanwhile I thought the news pretty strongly bolstered Blis's position for the next year or so, and hopefully beyond. It depends on why sales were down this time.

A short term financial washout. But I read it as a solid gain for the future.

Each to his own opinion naturally. But if we're to have any discussion, I thought I better be clearer what I saw in the news. I'd be interested in hearing other views.

jonu

24-11-2011, 04:43 PM

Hi Simla-its along time since I posted on Blis.
I didn't expect much from the financials, but I think things are solid looking forward. I have often wondered about Nestles' long term intentions. Blis would be a natural fit for them and I wouldn't be surprised about a t/o bid at some time

brucea

28-11-2011, 02:25 PM

Hi guys - I have been reading through the latest Blis report and noted the bit about "Marketing developments for all probiotic products will be extended to include relevant products for companion animals such as cats and dogs because this represents a signification component of the business for Stratum''s parent company; Novus International". You may have read a few months back that I gave1/4 crushed Throatguard lozenge daily for a month to my cat who had bad breath and have noticed a significant improvement in his "breath score" I was surprised to read that Blis had dumped Frutarom as this partnership seemed like a good strategy when it was announced a while back; I wonder if there is more to tell about the reasons for this split??

brucea

28-11-2011, 04:20 PM

I have read the Novus website and am impressed as it appears to me to be a much better fit for marketing Blis technology. They sell a product called "ADVENT® coccidiosis control which "is a vaccine against coccidiosis, one of the greatest threats to poultry. The product is sprayed onto broiler chicks shortly after they are hatched, providing protection through a single, antibiotic-free application" and "Working from a strong base of scientific understanding, we have brought to market more than 100 new products over the past decade. Today the Novus product portfolio provides a holistic approach to Health through Nutrition for poultry, cattle, pigs, pets, farm-raised fish, horses and people." It seems this could be an interesting venture for Blis if it goes ahead - well done!

simla

02-12-2011, 09:19 AM

Thanks for those comments guys. However, it doesn't look like anyone much intends to discuss this situation. Well, fair enough. It isn't an especially self-evident situation. Who knows what to make of it. We'll see.

simla

04-12-2011, 02:40 PM

Well, no matter what logic we each saw in the last results, I'm sure we're all agreed that it's very frustrating.

The company has made so much excellent progress, yet still hasn't unlocked the payoff for it in the form of profit. It raced all the way around to second base, but then getting to third base suddenly seems more difficult. And yet it's so hard to put your finger on why. They work so hard, and have done so many things right.

And it doesn't make it any easier for us personally when the entire world has anyway become a very frustrating place on most fronts, not just here. Life used to be so much easier only a short time ago. History is fickle.

I'm sure we all hope that 2012 will bring more clarity. It's clear that the company remains very busy in its efforts.

neopoleII

04-12-2011, 07:05 PM

""It's clear that the company remains very busy in its efforts.""

how so?

several directors, several biologists, other staff etc.
10 plus years of burning cash......
and the result?

i turn over $500k a year in sales and manufacture and installation all by myself and rewarded with wages....... boss is happy though.
and this NZX listed company is doing what?

the board of this company have alot to answer for.
99% of their advertising budget is on obscure websites.
and massive discount promotions in wallmart type stores.

my opinion is....... if it aint happened by now.......

so to date..... no nestle, no colgate, no major brand uptake,
just 1000s of no name websites

yes..... they have a great product, yes they have gras,
yes they want to suceed.........

but the cash is gone...... and they cant secure a big brand or big advertising.
so expect more and more share dilution until there is a billion . something cent shares.

just the way it is sometime.........
and the root cause.............

the director docktors that wanted to market it alone at the beginning.
their attitude ate the precious advertising budget 10 years ago.

that is a fact........ the rest is a slow death.

simla

05-12-2011, 02:28 PM

Thanks, NeopoleII. I'd probably choose to use more cheerful adjectives maybe. "Slow death" implies a fixed fate, whereas I see this company as being very proactive indeed, for example. But clearly the last US sales revenues dented even my optimism a little. Was it a blip from changing distributors, or was it something else?

It is very frustrating to be in so much uncertainty at this stage. Most of us probably saw China and GRAS as pretty good fruit to have picked, but we'd also be happy to see less picking of fruit now and more making of jam.

simla

05-12-2011, 10:29 PM

You must judge for yourself whether we shareholders have neglected those questions. This is the last full year report. http://blis.co.nz/media/pdf/PUBLISHED_ANNUAL_REPORT.pdf However, on page 50, you will note that the Board hold rather substantial holdings themselves. And here is an announcement that the Board all participated fully in the last issue also. https://nzx.com/companies/BLT/announcements/213516 You may assume we shareholders do not ask these fundamental questions about the business if you will, but surely it is difficult to assume the Board itself neglects them too.

neopoleII

06-12-2011, 12:36 PM

""but surely it is difficult to assume the Board itself neglects them too.""

you might want to read the pike thread and the nzo thread about what some shareholders think of company bord of directors.

there are good directors, bad ones, imcompetant ones, greedy ones, corrupt ones,
finding a company with a good board of directors is just as important as the company fundamentals.
i have lost complete respect for the BLT board.
but then, my share holding has been devalued by 95% so there is not much point talking to them anymore.
i prefer to warn folks on this thread to beware.

simla

06-12-2011, 02:56 PM

NeopoleII, I really appreciate your posts and thoughts, but there's no way in the world that I intend to discuss people here, only the company. I'm here to discuss the publicly available information about Blis Technologies with a view to deciding on my own investments in light of other people's observations on that public information. I contribute in return for what others contribute back. (It's been a bit one way lately chaps...)

I agree that a Board can be effective or otherwise and that that is an important point. But I see no evidence that this Board has done anything other than act diligently and intelligently. Further, they've put a lot of their own money at risk, which is surely a sign that they want to succeed. If anyone here thinks they could pull this off in their sleep, then put your name forward. Myself, I think it is obvious that launching an international enterprise with a new probiotic is a pretty tough call, and I remain impressed with the progress made in the last 3 years.

If things didn't end well ultimately, I would have no intention of taking my anger out on people who have worked hard for us. There have been some very fine minds at work on Blis and very much work put in. We have all consciously chosen to invest in something that has a risk of actually failing at the end, and we should accept that we have done that voluntarily.

The situation is presently frustrating for shareholders. The news for about 18 months has been a combination of advances and setbacks, leaving us little the wiser as to how the future looks. The huge global slump hardly helps. Let's hope things are clearer next year. There is still a whole lot happening in this company in my view. Good products, energetic management, a strong cornerstone shareholder, and much market development - to name some. There are problems to overcome too, however.

ps. Sympathy for your 95% loss, but the share price slumped 88% to 12 cents between 2001 and 2003. I don't really think it's fair to bring that into the last 3 years of vigorous new strategy. Three years ago, the share price was about 4 cents, still is.

Chippie

06-12-2011, 05:10 PM

Hi David
your posts are reasonable and the questions you raise are correct.

I asked myself these questions before I invested in the company. It is a speculative investment but for me I beleive the rewards far outweigh the risks. I have also corresponded directly with Barry Richardson several times and believe he is the right man for the job.

As with any investment the trick is not to invest more than you are prepared to lose. But I am in and prepared to lose it all (but hoping to make a truckload)

simla

06-12-2011, 10:49 PM

Thanks, Chippie. At last someone lending me some confidence. You said it well.

The thing is, David, that we've all travelled a very, very long way to be here. As NeopoleII says, there was very little in place a few years ago, whereas now so much has been assembled. But we're all aware that it hasn't quite jelled yet, and it is very frustrating to be so close and still not to know the outcome.

NeopoleII and I don't really disagree that much. We both see the same situation. He doesn't want to invite disappointment by hoping too much now, understandably, whereas I tend to optimism. But we both see the same thing, and we're both hoping, but not knowing the actual result yet.

And the Board really do know all about this. There is no mystery about the missing step at this stage, and there's no chance that they're not aware of it and they'll all be scratching their heads as hard as possible. The change of global distributor was a huge step to take, and obviously aimed entirely at the concerns you raise. The Blis strategy has always been to say they could not afford to market it themselves and had to have a middle party to do that. Here's an ODT article on that front from 2009, also mentioning that the distributor is the one expected to find the global companies. http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/69832/biotech-companies-branching-out?page=0%2C1 That is their solution, but it needs to be made to work. And it really is staggeringly bad luck that they are running a startup while also having to deal with the worse financial downturn in a century.

I only work from public information, like everyone here. But we did ask all those questions before we went ahead and invested in a startup company with such a large task. It wasn't an easy decision. As Chippie says, we hope the rewards will well exceed the risk. It's frustrating to be so close now, but still not to know the outcome. But the company is certainly aware what's needed to push past the finishing post.

simla

07-12-2011, 08:10 AM

Well, David, you got me defending my position. That's good, and it's why I like a spectrum of opinions. I don't assume I'm right, which is why I always try to explain my reasoning rather than just stating my position. However, you understand that we are never trying to talk anybody into buying, selling or trading Blis. That decision falls entirely on each individual's shoulder. Most of us here already have Blis shares and we just exchange possible views on public information, or provide links to new information, in order to sort our own thoughts better.

You'll gather I'll be very interested to see what effect a new global distributor has.

THEONE

07-12-2011, 02:11 PM

I have lost a considerable amount of money investing in Blis also, so I guess I to have a right to be unhappy. If you look at the financials alone, it isnt pretty reading. Sales have not grown and have recently fallen off a cliff. I am worried they may need to do another capital raising if things dont improve fast. But long term I see the immense potential
Gras-Get a few big companies to put in their youghurt and that could be worth millions
China-Alot of companies would love to have this approval, it takes years to get and probably over USD 100,000 at least. Surely the chinese distributor, is ok, if they have the time and money to do this. If this gos ok this will be worth alot.
Other pipeline products, M18 tooth decay, q24 for skin applications

At the end of the day, Once blis can cover its fixed costs of around 1.5 million, pretty much the rest will mainly be profit. They are just making Bacteria which is cheap to produce and easily scaleable. If they can make sales of 10 million, maybe they can make 7 million profit. I think one day they can do it, but i have been wrong so far. The product is a bit complicated alot of people have never heard of Probiotics let alone Blis. The product is great, maybe a bit complicated to use. But it is scientificaly proven. The key is in the Marketing, looks like most of the companies selling products with Blis ingredient are too small and havent invested heavily in marketing. They need the big companies to take it take it up and that takes time. I think at the current share price, the risk reward ratio is very good. They arent that far away from breaking even. Maybe even a potential takeover target at current share price.

I usually think very negatively towards management, i think they are self serving and short sighted. Barry Richardson and the board has my support though. I think they are doing a great job with the cards they have been dealt. You can see they are trying very hard, by all the different things they are doing. Sure some of it hasnt paid off yet. I think Barry does things for the long term good of the company. I think Blis could make a profit if thats what they wanted, but they are investing for bigger profits further down the road and that is costly. Simla and others thankyou for your comments. Its good to read others comments. Good and bad. Its good having a constructive discussion. I guess time will tell whether we are correct, so far i have unfortunately been wrong though. Maybe take a couple more years but one day i think one day they will get some solid runs on the board. Unlike a certain cricket team...

THEONE

07-12-2011, 02:21 PM

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Default.aspx?TabId=506&articleID=24981&ce2593=1#comment

simla

07-12-2011, 03:34 PM

Let's just remember, too, that the reason we are waiting is because most of us were really public spirited in putting up money in various issues from a startup because we believe NZ needs that sort of thing. We did it knowing we might never see that money again, and I'm pretty proud of all of us for doing that. Group hug, everybody.

Nice to hear John Tagg on local radio. I hope there are ads, too. Thanks for the link, and comments.

emearg

07-12-2011, 07:07 PM

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Default.aspx?TabId=506&articleID=24981&ce2593=1#comment

Both interviews were amusing, and the second one was especially informative and JT plugged Blis K12 four or five times.

Simla, the financials announced recently were terrible! Some of the words were nice, but they are easy to write. Not much to say here other than sell your shares or be patient. I'm going to go with be patient. You are too. Each to their own.

PS, I didn't invest in Blis to be a good citizen. That would just be a bonus.

simla

08-12-2011, 11:04 AM

Well, thanks for all those comments guys. It's great to have a group of well informed people saying what they see.

Two things stand out to me from those comments. Firstly, we all seem to see the facts pretty well the same way. But secondly, our expectations of the future still differ quite markedly. I take this to mean that the current situation is still very hard to read. NeopoleII, your gloomy expectations seem every bit as consistent with the facts as my rosier hopes, and either may yet prove true. And that's pretty extraordinary really. We've travelled so far down this road now, and yet we still can't be sure where the road will lead even now.

However, one thing at least seems pretty clear from all those comments. All eyes are on sales revenues from here on in.

neopoleII

08-12-2011, 01:01 PM

its ashame that the original thread is no longer here from 9, 10 years ago, you would of read about the docktors promising huge profits...... "just around the corner" and "exciting times ahead" and all other manor of statements that encouraged folks to get in now while the while the price was low....... $1 per share.
and then the funny tv ads of blue balls with faces...... and still no sales..... but a massive amount of hype from the board.

so 10 years on..... the company announcements still read the same...... and their numbers a still trending the same way.... down.
so after 10 years of hype talk from the board and 10 years down trending sp.
makes you wonder if the board is not doing something right.

but timing is every thing.

i was an early bird and lost my worm.
some of you have only just entered this stock and paid maybe 7 or 8 cents a share.
some are making profit by trading it...... not sure how though.
and some got 10cent divis!

the main fact is.....
this co was flush with cash at the beginning, and they truely wasted it.... and the same board keeps coming back for more cash over and over telling the same story we are just about there.

on another note

why is it we cant buy m18 in NZ?

THEONE

12-12-2011, 04:34 PM

I just noticed k12 is mentioned on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halitosis

stanace

13-12-2011, 07:37 PM

I just noticed k12 is mentioned on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halitosis

But there is no mention of it under Probiotics, unfortunately.

emearg

13-12-2011, 08:16 PM

But there is no mention of it under Probiotics, unfortunately.

Pity, maybe somebody should add it to the page. I'm happy to but would appreciate suggestions on wording...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blis_technologies does exist, and is pretty current.

weasel

13-12-2011, 09:09 PM

Pity, maybe somebody should add it to the page. I'm happy to but would appreciate suggestions on wording...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blis_technologies does exist, and is pretty current.

Most of it was written by the same person who added the BLIS info on the Halitosis page. I don't like this sentence: "As of 30 November 2011, Blis terminated its distribution agreement with Frutarom and sought a new distribution arangement with Stratum Nutrition. As a consequence, United States sales fell from $682k to $8k for the half year and the company reported its biggest loss to date" Surely the half year sales fell not as a consequence of a new distribution arrangement with Stratum but because Frutorom didn't sell any. Do you think we should change this?

simla

14-12-2011, 02:27 PM

New K12 product I think? http://organixsouth.com/theraneem/oral-care/toothpowder-mint.html

THEONE

14-12-2011, 03:11 PM

Great find Simla, here is another M18 product, I dont remember this one
http://mywellnesswarehouse.com/supplement/immune-system/dental-probiotic-blis-m18

I remember a while back before GRAS their was discussions about already in contact with Food manufacturers. Hopefuly will already have some sales lined up.

Cant help but think for the right company Blis would make a great acquisition for the K12 product alone, the key is it being an Oral Probiotic which not alot of companies have. Look at the sales of Activia. But would Barry, the board and Eion Edgar sell, at what price?

simla

14-12-2011, 04:17 PM

Nice find too, TheOne. However, I wish you'd stop fantasising about someone taking us all out. I haven't sat here all this time supporting a NZ company just to see it go off shore. I happen to think NZers are way to ready to sell out for short term cash.

THEONE

14-12-2011, 08:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fZjSTpgdiY
I may be wrong, but I dont think Leonbio exists anymore?

emearg

15-12-2011, 07:43 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fZjSTpgdiY
I may be wrong, but I dont think Leonbio exists anymore?

Their website seems to be dead so you are probably right.
http://www.leonbio.com/goods.php?id=2

emearg

15-12-2011, 07:47 PM

New K12 product I think? http://organixsouth.com/theraneem/oral-care/toothpowder-mint.html

Yup...added to the list

emearg

15-12-2011, 07:47 PM

Great find Simla, here is another M18 product, I dont remember this one
http://mywellnesswarehouse.com/supplement/immune-system/dental-probiotic-blis-m18

Added to the list. Will publish again at some point.

emearg

15-12-2011, 07:50 PM

I went to the dentist this week. All good but my dentist did suggest I should floss more (ideally three times a day (hehe)) to stop plaque building up. So I am thinking I should start using M18 as well as floss more regularly. Any suggestions on the best place to get M18 would be appreciated.

I really wish they would start flogging it in NZ, but I do understand the concept of prioritisation...

simla

17-12-2011, 11:35 AM

emearg

17-12-2011, 12:10 PM

I can't find the document online now, but I recall the NZ approval was for K12 only - they didn't have M18 at the time. Don't know if that affects supplements though.

I get M18 from phpure.com (dentaven). I just bought 4 packets of 30 for 140 NZ incl postage, so not the cheapest maybe. But it is just M18 (plus xylitol) whereas others seem to all contain lots of other stuff too. Odd product though, as you have to twist open a vege cap and empty it into your gums (or that's how I do it, anyway). Easy enough though. If anyone gets the Aussie product, let us know what it's like.

Also, an update on making health claims on NZ/Aus foods. Here's a National Party announcement suggesting a final decision (approval?) in June, so probably available in a year maybe, failing more complications? http://www.national.org.nz/Article.aspx?ArticleID=37695

Here's hoping 2012 brings a lot more clarity on the future for Blis. And the world!!

Thanks Simla. I note that product has 3 billion bacteria per serving. That seems a lot in comparison with all the other products available. Natures Plus Adult's Dental Care Probiotic Lozenges has 2 billion spread over 2 lozenges. I wonder how many are required for efficacy? I am considering the NP product but only taking one lozenge a day, along with my normal K12 for VegLife.

Considering the Blis Throat Guard product only had (maybe still has?) 100 million K12 bacteria per lozenge and some of the other products have 2 billion K12 I do wonder if more is actually more?

Considering the trillions of other bacteria in our mouths, the difference of one or two billion may not make a big difference because of how K12 and M18 work. Especially if we take it long term. Thoughts?

emearg

17-12-2011, 12:31 PM

OK, so I have placed an order with Vitaminlife.com. Four Adult's Dental Care Probiotic Lozenges and two more Veglife Ear Nose and Throat Shield. $15.60 US to ship them here. Pretty good value I reckon. Is that shipping cheaper than phpure.com Simla??

Personally I take the lozenge/s at bedtime after talking and what-not is done for the evening, and I pop the lozenge/s in the side of my mouth. They usually take several hours to disappear completely. I am pretty sure this is an excellent way to get the most benefit i.e. I'm not swallowing most of the bacteria due to my body's circadian rhythms.

I will report back in a year and let you know what my dentist says about tartar.

simla

27-12-2011, 08:35 PM

Here's a company in India announcing it is a distributor for Blis. www.fnbnews.com/article/detnews.asp?articleid=28919&sectionid=32 http://www.szhaveri.com/UploadImage/SZPPL_Brochure.pdf

THEONE

27-12-2011, 09:58 PM

Good find, but does Blis still make bio-restore? I wonder what happened to it. Its not available on their website. Not sure if this is new, i am losing track.
I wonder when the K12 ice cream will be introduced to supermarkets?

http://p-and-a.jp/newproducts/blis.html

THEONE

27-12-2011, 10:01 PM

I think this is new though
http://www.denticorp.net./Freshadent.php

THEONE

27-12-2011, 10:35 PM

Another new one
http://www.teelah.com/DulceDentX.html

emearg

27-12-2011, 11:39 PM

emearg

27-12-2011, 11:40 PM

I think this is new though
http://www.denticorp.net./Freshadent.php

I think you are correct :)

emearg

27-12-2011, 11:42 PM

Another new one
http://www.teelah.com/DulceDentX.html

Nice find TheOne!

simla

02-01-2012, 02:28 PM

Happy New Year, guys.

Things have got complicated over the last couple of years, so here's hoping this is the year it pulls together into predictable sales revenue.

I was so surprised by the November report that I forgot to thank the company for all its work. We didn't want those two losses last year, but neither did they. In the face of difficult times, they soldiered on, for which I am grateful. It must have taken considerable courage to appoint a new global distributor/marketer in the face of everything that was going on. I'm sure we all hope it pays off.

Anyway, last year saw GRAS, China. Stratum, India ... the issue, sales revenue, global economy ... plus more products, Therabreath K12/M18 nationwide, and things like the online sales site and the ice cream company, along with initial sales of probiotic food here in NZ. A very interesting year, to say the least.

2012 looks to be interesting generally, not least because it contains regime changes in the US, China, and France. Germany not till 2013. But plenty there to influence what politicians do for the rest of this year. Which is rather the dominant force now.

Anyway, here's hoping we end 2012 with a big smile on our faces.

simla

03-01-2012, 04:29 PM

Okay, this K12 one is in Hebrew. ".il" is Israel. The factory is in Upper Nazareth, according to the translation. http://www.supherb.co.il/?CategoryID=153&ArticleID=387

http://www.supherb.co.il/_Uploads/dbsArticles/_cut/F0_0075_0000_Bio_Plus_20ml_caps.jpg

emearg

04-01-2012, 12:56 PM

Okay, this K12 one is in Hebrew. ".il" is Israel. The factory is in Upper Nazareth, according to the translation. http://www.supherb.co.il/?CategoryID=153&ArticleID=387

Nicely found! That is SupHerb Bio Blis. They also have a kids version called SupHerb Bio Blis Kid:
http://www.supherb.co.il/?CategoryID=153&ArticleID=375

simla

10-01-2012, 06:26 PM

And in Taiwan K12/M18 "U!be Smile" http://www.ubelife.com/product_283925.jpg http://www.ubelife.com/product_283925.html

At about NZD$40 for a box of 24, more attractively priced than some of the Asian products have been too.

THEONE

10-01-2012, 07:26 PM

With all these new products coming out surely the revenue must be building. Main problem is most of them are very low volume high price products. This one looks nice though.
Wonder when the first ingredient sales will be ? an interesting probiotic youghurt is Activia with sales of 444 million. They should bring out an Acitivia Oral Probiotic with K12!

I wonder when will Gourmet Ice Cream become available in Auckland with or without K12?
I have been following this share for a while now, they have got a number of things on the go at the moment. I am hopeful for a decent result this year. But am worried about another rights issue

simla

11-01-2012, 10:23 AM

This online shop is open for business in Germany. A very well put together site. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blis-k12-shop.de%2F

One pack of Throat Guard for 29 Euro.

simla

11-01-2012, 11:01 AM

The U!be Smile K12/M18 product may be a chewing gum, rather than a lozenge. Unfortunately the translation doesn't make it especially clear. (Best translation laugh: "Lunch is not convenient because the company run out of teeth").

I've tried the CulturedCare K12 mint gum lately, and it's a good product. I'm not a gum fan, so I won't be using it, but those who like gum may well. It's just like real gum apart from a different shape and texture initially. It comes in a blister pack too, so slightly larger packet than usual chewing gum. Good flavour which stays in the mouth.

And the Jarro-Dophilus Oral Probiotic K12/M18 gum is starting to show up on the net in a few places. 4.25 Euro at this store http://www.pasioingredients.eu/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=309&ParentCat=114

emearg

11-01-2012, 12:50 PM

The U!be Smile K12/M18 product may be a chewing gum

It is gum.

simla

12-01-2012, 01:50 PM

I am hopeful for a decent result this year.

Well, that would depend on the answer to a stack of questions:

China. How soon will it start? Will they be taking NZ produced goods? Will that involve a reasonable margin perhaps? How fast will it roll out? What advertising will support it? How acceptable will it be to the Chinese?

Will the two US nationwide products get some traction? Therabreath, and Jarrow.

How real is the global crisis? Is it like the war on terror, an ongoing media affair with a curious lack of actual events to prove its existence? Or are we really coming up to something big, as people tend to assume? Myself, I'm inclined to think the economic crisis is over (it started in 2007, five years ago) and that we are now just in the new permanent normal: "Everything's Harder Now". Still rooms for a few jolts, of course.

Restocking. We were told the supply chain destocked. Was that a hiccup from changing global distributor/marketer, or was the market doing that regardless? Just how significant were last years results in the long term?

Will there be a backlog of orders ready to hand then because of the destocking? If restocking will occur, will sales restart at the old sales levels of about 1.3m pa, as it was? Or has it fallen back? Or should it have grown from the 1.3m anyway? Or is the old figure irrelevant?

Was the plateauing of sales for the last couple of years caused by external events, such as the ever increasing economic anguish in the US, Blis's main market? Or does it represent something about the product? Or something else?

GRAS. When will the first product engage? Might be a year or two to market, but how much preparation has already been done?

New products. We know there are some as we've seen some. What impact will that have on revenue?

Is advertising restricted by resources, or by regulations? Will GRAS change that, and when? Do overseas markets have less restrictions? What advertising should we anyway hope for?

Will the ice cream company noticeably change the overall financials?

Will the Asian products start producing bigger revenue? What is going on with Asian sales being slow?

Is there unexpected progress as well, as so often there has been?

A stack of questions. It is a complex situation. Each to answer as they will!

Myself, I'm inclined to think that conditions got harder for Blis a couple of years ago, but that they have battled on unabashed, and continued to make progress. It's just the new normal: Everything's Harder Now. So what, life's like that. And they're presumably very focused on getting sales revenue at present, and have in the past shown an ability to achieve things they set out to achieve. We can't read the future, but there seems room for some somewhat happier answers to some of those questions than the current share price implies. Others may disagree with that.

I'm reminded of Kipling: If you can keep your head when all those about you are losing theirs... http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/rudyard-kipling.html

People react to fear by running away. But all that fear tells us is that we doubt that what we're about to do is going to work. No need to actually run away, simply review the plan, revise it maybe. Sometimes running away is still the answer, but other times we can realise our fears are simply a message for caution.

To me, the main question is how bad do you think 2012 will be around the world? The popular view is it's all going to be awful. But actually last year wasn't that bad globally in many ways, although individual people obviously will have had their own experiences.

But if the world is not destined to self-destruct, maybe people should be re-reading their Kipling? People expected to be somewhat more resilient in those days.

Anyway, each will have their own opinion. As always. The future for Blis remains unknowable. We investors can only form our own opinions. But that's probably many of the questions. Add your own!

simla

16-01-2012, 12:30 PM

emearg

16-01-2012, 06:46 PM

Here's a little snippet. This site reports that visitor numbers to blis.co.nz have moved it from a NZ ranking of 4997 last March to 1686 so far this January. And from world ranking of 4,042,315 last March to 1,495,773 so far this January. http://www.sitefinder.co.nz/site-rank/www.blis.co.nz/

I think that's quite an achievement. Well done!

Having re-read the half year report it looks like the new website ranks highly in their 'hope' list! Hopefully some of the visitors actually spend their money. I still think the site could win an award for the most unprofessional professional site in NZ which won't exactly help sales.

fungus pudding

16-01-2012, 08:32 PM

Having re-read the half year report it looks like the new website ranks highly in their 'hope' list! Hopefully some of the visitors actually spend their money. I still think the site could win an award for the most unprofessional professional site in NZ which won't exactly help sales.

As far as unprofessional professional promotions go, have you tried reading the product labels?

simla

18-01-2012, 01:56 PM

I wonder when will Gourmet Ice Cream become available in Auckland with or without K12?
I just found some non-Blis-K12 ice cream for sale in an inner city Wellington New World. $6.89 for a 500m pottle. They appeared to have freezer space for a dozen Vanilla Bean and a dozen Brandy Snap, stacked three high, so pretty visible. It was in the pottle ice cream section, rather than the tub ice cream section. I'm probably biased, but something about its appearance made it seem like the one to reach for somehow. About a third of the stock had gone since they last stacked the shelves.

Anyway, I took one of each flavour. A bit creamier than I personally like it, but lots will love that. But the flavour was fabulous! Both flavours. Honestly, Fungus Puddling, I just don't think we can be tasting the same ice cream. It's great.

I'm not sure that we aren't on to a winner on that one.

fungus pudding

18-01-2012, 02:21 PM

I just found some non-Blis-K12 ice cream for sale in an inner city Wellington New World. $6.89 for a 500m pottle. They appeared to have freezer space for a dozen Vanilla Bean and a dozen Brandy Snap, stacked three high, so pretty visible. It was in the pottle ice cream section, rather than the tub ice cream section. I'm probably biased, but something about its appearance made it seem like the one to reach for somehow. About a third of the stock had gone since they last stacked the shelves.

Anyway, I took one of each flavour. A bit creamier than I personally like it, but lots will love that. But the flavour was fabulous! Both flavours. Honestly, Fungus Puddling, I just don't think we can be tasting the same ice cream. It's great.

I'm not sure that we aren't on to a winner on that one.

The ice cream I buy is around $6 for 2 litres, and superior in every way.

simla

18-01-2012, 03:55 PM

Wikipedia reports that Tip Top sells 50 million litres of ice cream pa, with about 380 employees. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_Top_%28ice_cream%29 Blis doesn't have the staff or the facilities to even consider competing against that. But a niche in the market with a good margin sounds okay to me.

fungus pudding

18-01-2012, 05:28 PM

emearg

18-01-2012, 07:13 PM

For sure, but it takes the right product.

Silly debate guys as everybody has different preferences! The ice cream I love some hate and vice versus. Some people prefer the taste of the cheapest stuff and hate the taste of the most expensive and vice versa. If you were to compare Kiwi, Tip Top, Signature Range, Kapiti etc I am sure you would find they all taste quite different, but they all sell. Different price points and volumes but they all sell.

Similar to the savory versus sweet muffin debate that seems popular at morning tea time...

emearg

18-01-2012, 07:13 PM

I just found some non-Blis-K12 ice cream for sale in an inner city Wellington New World. $6.89 for a 500m pottle.

Cause I am stupid do you want to confirm you are talking about GIC?

emearg

18-01-2012, 07:16 PM

I just found some non-Blis-K12 ice cream for sale in an inner city Wellington New World. $6.89 for a 500m pottle.

I'm somewhat surprised based on the half year report I re-read last week. I recall something about them phasing the GIC progress and that getting it into North Island shops would be in phase 2, and I inferred that this wouldn't be happening any time soon. Next time I visit that crazy mad busy supermarket I will ask and see how long they have been selling GIC products, and how it is going.

Do they also sell other GIC products?

emearg

18-01-2012, 07:19 PM

For sure, but it takes the right product.

Personally I'm not super pleased they bought GIC but am interested to see where they take it. Their argument that they want it to allow proof of concept work doesn't really wash with me as they didn't buy a gum making business and gum products have been launched. Hell, one of their staff left and now works for the gum makers...

Personally I think Barry thinks he can do better with GIC based on his Dairy experience than the previous owners. I hope it won't prove to be too much of a distraction, and that it will help the cash flow situation.

POSSUM THE CAT

18-01-2012, 07:49 PM

Emearg Are these different icecreams Kiwi, Tip Top, Signature Range,or just different packaging. When I was living in Australia Signature range had the Tiptop symbol on the lid. The Aldi icecream was labeled product of NZ & Tip Top owned Peters icecream from Perth. Who is the parent company of Kiwi?

emearg

18-01-2012, 08:07 PM

I don't know. It has been years since I have tried Kiwi. IMHO Tip Top and Signature Range taste very different. Talleys is another one. Not one I like.

Inside a brand there are quite different tastes as well. The lite Vanilla has a very different taste to normal vanilla. I prefer normal but I know of family members who love the lite version.

I guess if we all liked the same thing we wouldn't have as many choices as we do...

neopoleII

18-01-2012, 08:08 PM

why cant blis sell its product to tip top?
to me it seems blis is doing the same thing it always does..... going it alone or obscure internet shops,
or relying on the fortunes of online pharmacy / healtheries web retailers.
they have after 10 years still to find a real world heavy hitter.
blis is way past being a start up company.
and their options are getting thinner by the year
maybe they should talk to the guys at charlies or 42 below?
lets turn k12 and m18 into a stylish health product instead of a nerds oral health product.

we know that k12 and m18 are proven products that if introduced into mainstream foods and goods and made "hip"..... blis would take off.
just look at the mouthwash ads, and the toothpaste ads.
sexy girls kissing..... 3d strong man cartoons shielding teeth and on and on........ making money!
and blis.......... ??

strange ice cream brand, dime a dozen $40 a month websites........ not even a small click on ad on trademe or the major web newspapers.
whats the going rate on trademe for a click ad?....... 50cents?

and another thing....... m18 ... discovered in NZ, yet you cannot buy it in this country.
whats with that?

the real problem is....... blis does not advertise to the general public, and where it does advertise..... it is woefully bad compared to it competition.

blis now has gras....... and guess what...... no momentum.

so the issue is.........
is the problem the products or the management?

unfortunately.... when i invested a $100k i was too busy getting off on the product.
i didnt realize at the time that a company and it future is really only as good as its management.

re..... charlies........ orange juice
re...... 42 below...... booze.

from zero to filthy rich in less time than blis

the clock is ticking for blis.

you may call me negative...... but i believe i am NOW a real realist.

too bad it cost me an amount that i will never be able to recover.

good luck to punters looking for a quick buck IF management get lucky

this company has taught me more about risk reward, good/bad management,
hype and reality, dreams and truths,
and the fine line of prospectus and returns,
and.......... the reality that NZ business law is rather lax.

re...... the last few years where NZ society has lost billions and no accountability,
but now i start to digress.

good luck

while i was writing this, there were several posts regarding ice cream....... this to me is a pointless discussion......... as the real goal of blis is way beyond ice cream....... so no disrespect to the posters..... i value your comments greatly..... but then.... concerning blt there is not much to talk about..... so any discussion is better than none.... and my comments arent overly positive, but hopefully will make folks aware...... or at least management aware of the thoughts of at least one major share holder........ not that my $100k is worth anything anymore.

fungus pudding

18-01-2012, 08:49 PM

[QUOTE=neopoleII;365694]why cant blis sell its product to tip top?
to me it seems blis is doing the same thing it always does..... going it alone or obscure internet shops,
or relying on the fortunes of online pharmacy / healtheries web retailers.
they have after 10 years still to find a real world heavy hitter.
blis is way past being a start up company.
and their options are getting thinner by the year
maybe they should talk to the guys at charlies or 42 below?
lets turn k12 and m18 into a stylish health product instead of a nerds oral health product.

we know that k12 and m18 are proven products that if introduced into mainstream foods and goods and made "hip"..... blis would take off.
just look at the mouthwash ads, and the toothpaste ads.
sexy girls kissing..... 3d strong man cartoons shielding teeth and on and on........ making money!
and blis.......... ??

strange ice cream brand, dime a dozen $40 a month websites........ not even a small click on ad on trademe or the major web newspapers.
whats the going rate on trademe for a click ad?....... 50cents?

and another thing....... m18 ... discovered in NZ, yet you cannot buy it in this country.
whats with that?

the real problem is....... blis does not advertise to the general public, and where it does advertise..... it is woefully bad compared to it competition.

blis now has gras....... and guess what...... no momentum.

so the issue is.........
is the problem the products or the management?

unfortunately.... when i invested a $100k i was too busy getting off on the product.
i didnt realize at the time that a company and it future is really only as good as its management.

re..... charlies........ orange juice
re...... 42 below...... booze.

from zero to filthy rich in less time than blis

the clock is ticking for blis.

you may call me negative...... but i believe i am NOW a real realist.

too bad it cost me an amount that i will never be able to recover.

good luck to punters looking for a quick buck IF management get lucky

this company has taught me more about risk reward, good/bad management,
hype and reality, dreams and truths,
and the fine line of prospectus and returns,
and.......... the reality that NZ business law is rather lax.

re...... the last few years where NZ society has lost billions and no accountability,
but now i start to digress.

good luck

while i was writing this, there were several posts regarding ice cream....... this to me is a pointless discussion......... as the real goal of blis is way beyond ice cream....... so no disrespect to the posters..... i value your comments greatly..... QUOTE]

Not a good story for you, I'm sorry to hear. I don't mean to get involved in trivia like ice-cream, but it's more than just trivia as far as I am concerned. It tells me a lot about the company. I followed Blis for a little while, but dumped my small shareholding after trying their product. I just can't see it selling. When I saw that they had bought gourmet ice-cream, another low quality product, it struck me that they will never get anywhere. That's the importance of the ice-cream; it's an indicator, or another nail in the coffin.

fungus pudding

18-01-2012, 08:51 PM

[QUOTE=fungus pudding;365700][QUOTE=neopoleII;365694]why cant blis sell its product to tip top?
to me it seems blis is doing the same thing it always does..... going it alone or obscure internet shops,
or relying on the fortunes of online pharmacy / healtheries web retailers.
they have after 10 years still to find a real world heavy hitter.
blis is way past being a start up company.
and their options are getting thinner by the year
maybe they should talk to the guys at charlies or 42 below?
lets turn k12 and m18 into a stylish health product instead of a nerds oral health product.

we know that k12 and m18 are proven products that if introduced into mainstream foods and goods and made "hip"..... blis would take off.
just look at the mouthwash ads, and the toothpaste ads.
sexy girls kissing..... 3d strong man cartoons shielding teeth and on and on........ making money!
and blis.......... ??

strange ice cream brand, dime a dozen $40 a month websites........ not even a small click on ad on trademe or the major web newspapers.
whats the going rate on trademe for a click ad?....... 50cents?

and another thing....... m18 ... discovered in NZ, yet you cannot buy it in this country.
whats with that?

the real problem is....... blis does not advertise to the general public, and where it does advertise..... it is woefully bad compared to it competition.

blis now has gras....... and guess what...... no momentum.

so the issue is.........
is the problem the products or the management?

unfortunately.... when i invested a $100k i was too busy getting off on the product.
i didnt realize at the time that a company and it future is really only as good as its management.

re..... charlies........ orange juice
re...... 42 below...... booze.

from zero to filthy rich in less time than blis

the clock is ticking for blis.

you may call me negative...... but i believe i am NOW a real realist.

too bad it cost me an amount that i will never be able to recover.

good luck to punters looking for a quick buck IF management get lucky

this company has taught me more about risk reward, good/bad management,
hype and reality, dreams and truths,
and the fine line of prospectus and returns,
and.......... the reality that NZ business law is rather lax.

re...... the last few years where NZ society has lost billions and no accountability,
but now i start to digress.

good luck

while i was writing this, there were several posts regarding ice cream....... this to me is a pointless discussion......... as the real goal of blis is way beyond ice cream....... so no disrespect to the posters..... i value your comments greatly..... QUOTE]
QUOTE]

Not a good story for you, I'm sorry to hear. I don't mean to get involved in trivia like ice-cream, but it's more than just trivia as far as I am concerned. It tells me a lot about the company. I followed Blis for a little while, but dumped my small shareholding after trying their product. I just can't see it selling. When I saw that they had bought gourmet ice-cream, another low quality product, it struck me that they will never get anywhere. That's the importance of the ice-cream; it's an indicator, or another nail in the coffin.

simla

18-01-2012, 09:11 PM

Cause I am stupid do you want to confirm you are talking about GIC?
Yes, GIC. Made my way to a couple of other supermarkets in the area, and also discovered Raspberry and White Chocolate, Lemon Curd, and Speights Old Dark.

simla

18-01-2012, 09:40 PM

... but then.... concerning blt there is not much to talk about...
I couldn't disagree more. Blis was just a product and a plan 4 years ago. Now it is in over 50 products around the world, and including chewing gum and ice cream and yoghurt, which they had to create the technology for. And M18 and Q24 have been added. GRAS is on tap. Many companies have signed on to the sales potential. It is now legal to sell it in countries with a population of over 3 billion! China 1400m, India 1200m, US 300m, Russia 142m, Japan 128m, Mexico 112m, Canada 34m, Malaysia 28m, Taiwan 23m, Australia 22m ...) In the US there are nationwide products selling into thousands of stores.

The company has had problems, but few of its own making. Worldwide regulations for supplements have got incredibly tight during this time, including considerable legal restraint on advertising. The world economy has got more and more panicky, and a lot of consumers and companies have shut their wallets. GRAS got harder and harder to get, but they still got it, it just took 2 years longer.

Obviously the one thing they haven't got is sales revenue coming out of their ears. The question, equally obviously, is whether that will or won't happen. But I find it really odd that people seem to have got bored with BLT when so very, very much is happening.

I don't see that the ice cream is unimportant either. Yes, they want it for proof of concept on functional foods, but I do care whether it is going to bring in cash flow too.

So, yes, we'd like the sales revenue to get a move on. But nothing to talk about? No, I can't agree. The current share price reflects only that the shareholders are currently doing nothing much. But the company itself is surely very, very active for those reading the reports.

simla

18-01-2012, 10:07 PM

For those who haven't noticed this before, by the way:

"More than 50 million doses of Streptococus salivarius K12-containing products have been distributed since 2001" http://blis.co.nz/default/probiotic-answers/blis-product-safety.html

Just trying to balance out the debate a little. But, yes, some certainty would be welcome sometime. Time does indeed pass.

skid

19-01-2012, 08:11 AM

That 2 yr chart is not a nice picture--hang on,ill just turn my computer screen upside down--ahhh thats better LOL Seriously though,we are all hopeing they make it in the end,but you cant blame those that look at the bottom line .

simla

19-01-2012, 09:26 AM

So where's all the big fat profits then?
Yes, we'd all like to know that! The company has created a pretty large infrastructure now, and it's hard to put your finger on exactly why the profits haven't flowed yet. Various possibilities, of course. They are selling stuff, but the expansion costs exceed the income? Consumers are scared? Intermediate companies are wary of using cash to promote a new product? Regulations make it very tough to advertise? Etc. Or perhaps it just takes time to grow a new product concept?

As you say, Skid, we are all hoping they make it in the end. I look on it as rather binary now. It will succeed or it won't. All that infrastructure means there's not much room to start again now.

But I'm pretty hopeful. All that infrastructure seems likely to pay off sooner or later, it seems to me. And when I see Blis's ice cream in a prominent supermarket chain, I'm not seeing bad news. I take the simple and obvious view: Good!

Still, a variety of views is good. We're here to debate and discuss, the better to form a view on our investments. The more views the better for that. I'm always interested in every view.

simla

23-01-2012, 04:48 PM

winner69

23-01-2012, 05:33 PM

simla

23-01-2012, 07:45 PM

I deliberately didn't do the sums, as the margin of error seems way too high from such a small sample. But it seemed a bit cheerful to me, I must admit. Way too early to judge annual sales though.

But it does seem to clearly demonstrate that the product can attract a following, which is good.

emearg

25-01-2012, 07:54 PM

fungus pudding

25-01-2012, 08:40 PM

Out of interest how do you know it was 13 pottles at Thorndon? Such exact figures? Did you mark the pottles or something? Tell all!! :)

He hacked their computer system - he won't tell you that though, so I will. :D

simla

25-01-2012, 09:15 PM

It was initial stock I assume and they didn't have anything to replace the gaps with. So I watched the gaps grow. In the end though, they restocked, so they must have decided it was worth ordering in more. Hardly surprising with that level of sales. Promising surely.

By the way, it was a week ago I reported the ice cream, and nobody has said the obvious: "good". Is the general doom and gloom getting under people's skins a little, maybe?

emearg

25-01-2012, 09:17 PM

THEONE

26-01-2012, 05:12 PM

I think its good 2, the Ice Cream should be a steady earner with reasonable growth.
Eion Edgar was an investor in Charlies and that turned out ok. Just look how well NZ Natural Ice Cream is doing.

Looks like they have changed their packaging? Simla have you seen the Pavlova Roulades ?and yoghurt?

The Blis shareprice is terrible at the moment, with a market capitilisation of less than 12 Million.
With GRAS, China, M18, Q24 etc you would have to be very pesimistic to think that Blis will not be able to make a profit of a few million within a few years. Bacteria is very cheap to make.
Most of their cost are fixed not variable.

The Biggest risk is another rights issue.

Surely very worst case scenario in recievership Blis would even be worth much more than this.

The preference shares are a good option, if share price falls you get more shares, so you kinda have a bet either way.
But I guess is a case of once bitten twice shy and like myself already having a decent holding, are scared to buy anymore

emearg

26-01-2012, 06:35 PM

After a week in Wellington, I notice that ice cream sales appeared to be: 13 in 6 days at Thorndon (large store, upmarket), 8 in 4 days in Newtown, 2 in 4 days at Porirua (and not including what I bought.) That's an average of about 2 pottles a day per store over that time, if that has any statistical meaning, which is doubtful. Wikipedia report that New World had 132 stores 3 years ago. It sells for $6.89 (more in some stores), so would BLT hope for $1 to $1.50 profit per pottle maybe? Don't have a clue. And it's currently summer, of course. Anyway, useful, I'd have said.

Price wise, the $6.89 makes it the cheapest in the pottle section. Combined with attractive packaging, it has appeal. The most expensive pottles sell for about $20 for a litre, amazingly.

I've also come to seriously like this ice cream. The trick with premium ice cream (as this range is called) is that you don't eat it by the plateful. It has an intense flavour and small amounts (a teaspoonful is nice) are about as nice as a plate of the normal stuff. All the women in the house like it, and one went to buy some more "because we're running out".

Interesting. I wandered down to New World Metro on Willis Street and even in that tiny store they had two flavours in 500ml pottle sizes. I noted how many pottles and will keep an eye on the situation as they are near my bus stop. Also checked out New World and Woolworths in Karori when I was there. Neither seem to have GIC. I didn't spot yoghurt in any of the three shops but didn't look very hard either.

Hard to guess how much they might make, if anything. Depends on how well the business is run really doesn't it. That said, if they get it right you would think the margin would be very good when selling half a litre for $7 which is more than Tip Top sell 2 litres. Economies of scale, lower quality/quantity ingredients will count but still?!!!

I was very tempted today to buy a tub of the icecream but managed to resist the temptation.

FYI I eat icecream most days. It isn't just a summer thing for me. It is the one treat that I actually have some control over when it comes to portion size. Chocolate, biscuits, chips and lollies are quite a different story! Hehe :) I wonder if I am the only one like this????

simla

27-01-2012, 01:39 PM

Well, I can't tell you what to do, TheOne. That's for each investor to decide for themselves, obviously.

But, for myself, I have continued to accumulate in a quiet way, just every now and then, throughout the last couple of disappointing years. Not in a big way, as I am a man of limited means, and also the future remains unclear. But neither have I abandoned the company just because they weren't handing me a fortune, but were instead meeting with difficulties in the market. Has it taken a degree of grit to continue to invest in the face of disappointing news? You bet. I'll tell you later if it was a good idea!

And if BLT shareholders all hide under rocks, as they are now, that can become self-fulfilling too. The funding gets harder to raise against a lower share price, and the company has to make up for that by working even harder with what it's got. Happily this company is very tough and hard working. But they may feel they deserve shareholders who stand by them more when the going gets tough. Happily, too, there's a core of shareholders who did just stump up in the last issue. But where are they in the market now, especially on the ordinaries?

None of this is a criticism of anyone here. This group probably has been active in the issues, or we wouldn't be present here. But I do feel the company deserves better than it's getting lately.

Obviously this company has yet to make a profit. There is still no guarantee it will. And the world is panicking. Well, as I said, that is for each investor to decide for themselves. Obviously.

ps. No, I haven't seen the roulade, or yoghurt or K12 products.

simla

27-01-2012, 01:54 PM

I was very tempted today to buy a tub of the icecream but managed to resist the temptation.

Let's hope not all our customers are as abstemious as you, Emearg!

emearg

27-01-2012, 10:23 PM

Let's hope not all our customers are as abstemious as you, Emearg!

The same number were in the display today as on Wednesday so maybe they are. All with best before early Dec 2012. So I am guessing New World Metro received them in mid December last year. Possibly later depending on delays between production and getting to a shop. Probably six or eight to a tray. Not exactly booming sales (assuming they only ordered a tray of each flavour (which seems reasonable to me)), but if they sell adequately to avoid NW deleting the line that will be an impressive achievement. Huge competition for space in that little shop where floor space costs a fortune! Well worth monitoring when ever I visit :)

simla

28-01-2012, 10:19 AM

Nil desperandum, Emearg. There seemed to be about 20 there a week ago, and now only 5. And Porirua has sold another 9 in the last few days, Newtown about 11, and Thorndon about 6. That's over 2 per day per shop. Looking okay.

emearg

28-01-2012, 10:31 AM

Chippie

29-01-2012, 11:12 PM

I purhcased one from New World on Willis street on Friday. I thought it was pretty good and my daughters rated it a 8 and 9 out of ten. So not bad.

simla

30-01-2012, 08:16 AM

emearg

30-01-2012, 10:25 AM

At last someone else's opinion on the taste! Thanks, Chippie.

Thorndon seemed to sell 8 in one day on Saturday, but on the other hand it was gridlock when I arrived there. Also, only half the Wellington NZ supermarkets seem to have it so far. The smaller, older, suburban ones don't have it, although neither does central Hutt. Don't know what that means.

Miramar New World doesn't stock it either.

So there are several Wellington people here from the looks. Can anybody comment about other parts of the North Island please?

neopoleII

31-01-2012, 07:47 PM

anyone asked the helpful PR reps at BLT how many icecreams they have sold?.... or where it is sold?
i asked them about M18 and they said they are not allowed to sell it in NZ....... yet.

as i file the company end of year annual report into the fireplace, can someone tell me if they are still giving out divis to the very few preference holders?.... or is that now finished?
the only interest i now have in BLT is this thread and the weekly check on sp.
which seem to be miles apart in what is real and what is hoped for.

the interesting thing is....... OH WHAT COULD OF BEEN!

simla

31-01-2012, 10:10 PM

There's one more dividend left in May.

fungus pudding

31-01-2012, 10:29 PM

There's one more dividend left in May.

Ougta be good for an ice-cream. :t_up:

emearg

01-02-2012, 05:02 PM

I purhcased one from New World on Willis street on Friday. I thought it was pretty good and my daughters rated it a 8 and 9 out of ten. So not bad.

It had better appeal a lot to some people as it is really expensive!! Today I noticed they have restocked one of the flavours. Eight there today with room for more so I was probably about right with it coming on trays of 6 or 8. Not a nice enough day for me to buy any at lunch. The pouring rain would have washed it away!!

simla

09-02-2012, 08:54 PM

I guess many of us are hoping this article describes Blis. Ignore the odd title. And, no, there doesn't seem to be any of the mentioned book for sale. http://dailyreckoning.com/the-value-of-a-thief/

And here's the same writer's related article on being patient, which we also hope applies to Blis. http://dailyreckoning.com/the-most-common-and-costly-investment-mistake/

Of course, we'll only know later whether this actually applies to Blis ...

simla

10-02-2012, 02:18 PM

By the way, although I'm not following it so closely now, sales of the ice cream around here seem to be continuing at least as well as in my first reports. In fact, two supermarkets that started with it just wedged into a corner have now each given it more or less an entire shelf of its own. We don't know how the nationwide rollout is going, but it looks the like the product appeals to customers, at the least. That's good. No reports from elsewhere in the country anyone?

weasel

14-02-2012, 04:47 AM

I just noticed the tagline of the gourmet ice cream company - "Crafted by connoisseurs not chemists". So connoisseurs = biologists? ;-)

simla

15-02-2012, 12:29 PM

Very clever, Weasel.

Now, I made the effort to go around the supermarkets. Yes, it continues to sell pretty well where there is good stock choice (ie maybe a couple of pottles a day per shop by the look of it.) However, some of the supermarkets seem to have adapted to this sales level better than others. Some have good stocks (one had increased its stock to 30 pottles, and one to 26 and one to 18) but others probably need to adjust their ordering levels as some have empty shelf space. I notice that sales seem to slow down where there isn't a good stock choice staring customers in the face, with just the last few lingering a little longer. The product seems to have good customer demand, but perhaps Rome wasn't built in a day when it comes to a new product working its way out into the established ordering patterns of the world. I continue to feel confident about this product from what I'm seeing. Vanilla seems to be a persistent seller, and which is my personal favourite.

simla

15-02-2012, 12:50 PM

Meanwhile, here is an Italian K12 product. http://www.parafarmaciapolo.it/index.php/aree-terapeutiche/salute/gola/bactoblis.html

Russia, Israel, Italy, Switzerland ... and the Jarrow gum is at this European net store http://www.pasioingredients.eu/

They seem to be chipping away at Europe. It would be nice to hear more detail of that.

simla

17-02-2012, 04:19 PM

Some of the supermarkets are definitely joining in to this journey. One that was empty the other day has since got 36 pottles of ice cream on the shelf, the highest stocking level I've seen yet. The one that had 30 the other day has since sold 15 apparently, in 2 days. Willis St was empty the other day, now has 13 on the shelf (not a big supermarket spacewise, so that's fine). Not all supermarkets are in on this yet, but several are definitely already seeing the value of keeping up the stocks. Good.

emearg

17-02-2012, 06:19 PM

THEONE

17-02-2012, 08:22 PM

Heres a promotion from Dr Speiser,, It maybe a good oportunity to try the M18 at a reasonable price.

http://www.breezecare.com.au/ausshop/kforce-gold.html?utm_source=Feb12au&utm_campaign=feb12au&utm_medium=email

simla

25-02-2012, 08:18 PM

A couple more supermarket results. One sold 2 in 5 days, the other 22 in 5 days. It's not in all the supermarkets here yet, but it seems like this product has a long term market okay.

emearg

01-03-2012, 09:36 PM

I was really starting to wonder if the whole thing had fallen through and we weren't going to be told until the next announcement in May. Thankfully not!!
http://www.stratumnutrition.com/Ingredients

simla

02-03-2012, 07:17 PM

emearg

02-03-2012, 07:46 PM

Understandable caution, Emearg, but I'm not sure it is that logical. Blis is still struggling to pull together its revenue, yes, but it has a strong history of achieving business arrangements that it sets out to achieve. That's definitely one of its major strengths. We don't know the lie of the land at present, true, but personally I feel people are underestimating Blis's stickability and its ability to implement plans. We'll see.

Sorry Simla but history says otherwise. Think back to mid 2007 and DSM and you will realise that Blis have a track record of their planned international distributors agreements not coming to anything. A letter of intent in 2007, then a year later it was announced that Frutarom were in. So late in 2011 when a letter of intent was signed I was keen to see it had come to something. Up to that point they had a 100% failure rate. Nice they scored Frutarom but that doesn't negate my point.

simla

02-03-2012, 09:01 PM

Okay, it shows the specific point that they might end up with a different marketing agreement than they set out to get. But it also demonstrates that, if they don't get what they want in one place, they go get it elsewhere.

What a happy situation: we're both right!

simla

03-03-2012, 05:27 PM

I don't know what these guys are doing right, but they must be doing something. The NZ Blis website was ranked 5643th in NZ last April, 1686 in January, and now 1107 in March. And from 4,602,704th in the World last April to 1,021,785 now. http://www.sitefinder.co.nz/site-rank/www.blis.co.nz/

Or these people rank them at 1,059,969 in the world. http://www.checksitetraffic.com/traffic_spy/blis.co.nz

Or these rank it at 1,145,275 in the world, claiming 273 visitors a day and 819 page views. http://www.statscrop.com/www/blis.co.nz

It's almost hard to believe that they are getting so many visits, but several sites rank it pretty much the same, so they must all think the same thing. Pretty hard to guess what that means in generated sales income, but it must be producing something. Well done to them.

And meanwhile blisk12.com has said "undergoing some exciting new changes" for a little while now. Wonder what that will be about. That site is currently ranked 11,569,900 according to http://www.checksitetraffic.com/traffic_spy/blisk12.com demonstrating how well the home web site is doing.

weasel

03-03-2012, 11:22 PM

I don't know what these guys are doing right,

No, but considering that the site is an (inter)national disgrace, I can't imagine they are selling any (I certainly wouldn't from that site and I know the company!). It actually gets worse every time I visit there. They desperately need to get someone professional to sort this out.

simla

04-03-2012, 10:16 AM

I agree the site is not understated. But remember that the main objective is to sell from the site. Is understated the best way of doing that? You may recognise this site as one of the suppliers of Culturedcare gum. http://www.natvd.com/en That's not understated, and it's about selling, too. Or this one, which sells the Jarrow gum http://www.pasioingredients.eu/ Or this one, which sells several Blis products. http://www.luckyvitamin.com/ (I don't say any of those are just like the Blis site, of course, but they are examples to compare features with maybe. Well funded ones too, I expect.)

None of those are understated. They are certain to be selling though. I expect the Blis site will get better and better over time, and no doubt it would show if they spent a lot of money on it. Have you sent them the cheque to pay for it! They have a lot of projects on the boil.

I can see where you guys are coming from on the web site, but I actually think it has a lot going for it. And the traffic suggests it's getting somewhere. The order numbers on my own orders from the site - it sells a product I want, don't forget, that's the point - suggest they are making a reasonable return on the cost of their investment in the site anyway, as reported in the last report.

In any case, instead of saying it's a disgrace, it would be more helpful to say exactly what you would like to see happen to it. I presume you are talking style, so that would have to involve stating what you want to see. And I'm sure they would be happy to hear constructive ideas directly. Perhaps include funding suggestions!

simla

04-03-2012, 10:28 AM

I've been reading the Buffet biography. It's a big read, but actually very readable. It's been surprising how many companies he was happy to be involved with that had problems, and yet he still expected to come out on top with them. One of his ideas seems to be: if you make sure someone sensible is running it, and take care of the cash, time will eventually sort out most of the rest of it, so long as you think there is underlying value in the company. Remind you of Blis maybe? So would he approve of our being patient? Who knows. Mind you, he never touches tech stocks, period. He says he doesn't understand them, so why bother with them. Also, he seems to dislike technology companies for investment.

weasel

04-03-2012, 10:20 PM

In any case, instead of saying it's a disgrace, it would be more helpful to say exactly what you would like to see happen to it. I presume you are talking style, so that would have to involve stating what you want to see. And I'm sure they would be happy to hear constructive ideas directly. Perhaps include funding suggestions!

Was the website not brought up at the AGM? I fail to believe I am the only one who has a problem with the site. If I were "inside" the company I would be demanding necessary funding to produce a professional website, and I would not be asking members of the public for a handout.

simla

05-03-2012, 12:47 PM

I'm not suggesting we all donate money! But it is a case of return on investment. The company has many projects on the boil, and they all have to be paid for. If they spent a fortune on the website, what would be the payback in the meantime? As I say, the traffic information mentioned above, and the order numbers I've had on my orders, suggest they're doing all right on payback on what they've done so far. Would huge numbers flock to the site because more money was spent on it, or is the objective to work out how to attract attention at all?

In a very short time scale, the company has put up the new version of the NZ site, blisk12 website, facebook/twitter and this google site https://sites.google.com/site/blisoralhealthcare/ and various videos on youtube - that I know of. And it has launched website sales. It's not a big company remember.

As the website is fully functional, I assume it is style you are concerned with. Point to a website you want them to emulate maybe?

simla

05-03-2012, 01:10 PM

There you go, I just discovered Blis also has it's own channel on youtube. It currently claims to have had 1252 video views. Admittedly, I have no idea how youtube channels attract people myself, but it seems to have got quite a few views anyway. http://www.youtube.com/user/BLISTechnologies/feed?filter=2

simla

05-03-2012, 02:01 PM

Well, it's easy to criticise most things. But I'm still waiting for anyone to make positive suggestions on what they think should be happening. I've pointed to the fact that their site ranking keeps going up as evidence they are getting somewhere. We know the company doesn't have a huge budget on any front.

Come on someone, point to a company and website you want to emulate. To the best of my knowledge, nobody knows how to make an internet hit. The ones that exist have just stumbled upon providing a web site that people wanted to see, and then worked incredibly hard. Amazon opened in 1995, for example, but turned its first quarterly profit in 2001. They lost $89m in second quarter 2000 alone. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/853249.stm

simla

05-03-2012, 02:37 PM

Are you saying "less busy", "less complicated", maybe? Or maybe lighter colours? Well, that's concrete and a positive suggestion. Thanks. Of course, you realise I'm just a shareholder! But I've always assumed BLT read this group from time to time, so they may pick that up if they want to, or you could email them. I just try to keep things positive here because my rock bottom belief about this company is that they work really hard all the time.

Mind you, ranking 1107 with just one product compared to 552 selling about anything you might want to buy? That's not bad is it?

weasel

06-03-2012, 04:10 AM

winner69

06-03-2012, 06:16 AM

I'd be very surprised if anyone from Blis reads this forum.

Somebody from (or close to) Blis was a regular poster once .... never disclosed it but the comments were those of an insider

simla

06-03-2012, 06:28 PM

Let's just remember what really decent people are involved in Blis.

It started with John Tagg spending 30 years looking for an alternative to antibiotics. What a really decent chap to do that. How lucky we are to have people like that.

Then a bunch of New Zealanders gathered together to take that to the world. What a bunch of decent people.

Then another bunch of New Zealanders took a chance and put up the money to launch the product, not knowing if they would get a return. More have done the same since, still not knowing if they would get a return. What really decent people.

And meanwhile the people in Dunedin work and work to get this thing off the ground. What decent people.

What really decent people have come together to make this work. What really decent people.

neopoleII

06-03-2012, 07:38 PM

and those decent people in the head office behind the microscopes thought that they were so decent that they spent all the advertising budget on cartoon tv ads that generated lose after lose, then when the cash ran out they were so decent to ask for more and more cash by giving away more and more shares, and then to those decent new shareholders that demanded 10cent divis...... then ..... when that cash started to dwindle they started to tell the decent shareholders that they are just around the corner from a maiden profit....... in the meantime.... they still shun those mean corrupt advertising gurus that charge alot of money for professional advertising..... just like those advert gurus that didnt give 42 below or charlies a fair deal!!!

mr tagg and his team are decent folks...... but they are idiots at advertising or corporate management..... they are intelligent scientists...... full stop.
its time to put in a real crew of business developers.
but........ the cash is gone.

wont be long blis products become generic products and blis is gone.

all very decent.

someone tell the doktors that running a listed business is not science...... its business.

winner69

06-03-2012, 08:12 PM

Seems like decent has a couple of different meanings ....depending on which side of that decent $30m odd thats been spent

simla

06-03-2012, 10:01 PM

The modern world has convinced so many people that being human is unforgivable, people should be held accountable for any and every mistake. Nonsense, we're all human. If any of you have launched world wide corporations from scratch in just a few years, I congratulate you. Most people find that sort of things takes a fair bit of trial and error, a lot of time, and a lot of money.

I'm proud to be doing my little bit to help with a project of real value to the world and to New Zealand.

They're real people involved in this. They're decent people.

simla

06-03-2012, 10:57 PM

Seems like decent has a couple of different meanings ....depending on which side of that decent $30m odd thats been spent

Well, the current management started about 4 years ago, I think. During that time, they've raised just $5.5m - $4m in the rights issue, and $1.5m last year. That's a little over $1m a year.

In return for that, and during that time, they have:

Put K12 into about 50 products in about a dozen countries, at a guess.
Gained business partners in the US, China, Japan, Taiwan, India, Australia, Canada, Malaysia ...etc
Introduced M18 as well.
Got Q24 close to available,
Launched a dog product,
Patented the products in at least half the world, as far as I can tell.
Gained regulatory permission in most of the world.
Gained GRAS.
Gained access to China.
Launched 3 products into nationwide chains in the US.
Performed human safety trials.
Endured ceaselessly more difficult regulatory regimes world wide, that even the multinationals are struggling with.
Survived as a startup in the worst world crash in about 100 years, that is devestating most of the world.
Put up web sites, youtube, twitter and facebook.
Put up on line sales.
Become the third most popular throat product in NZ, in the face of multinationals.
Developed the technology to put the products into yoghurt, ice cream, beverages, chewing gum and various pills.
Developed ongoing products that are hinted at that we do not know about yet.
Adopted an ice cream company for purposes of both profit and business development.

And that's just from my off-hand memory. If that's not value for money, I don't know what is.

Yes, very patently we want it to make a profit. But with expansion costs like that to carry, and the business environment as it is, surely we can manage a little appreciation. They've also done a lot of work controlling costs.

winner69

07-03-2012, 09:53 AM

Well, the current management started about 4 years ago, I think. During that time, they've raised just $5.5m - $4m in the rights issue, and $1.5m last year. That's a little over $1m a year.

In return for that, and during that time, they have:

Put K12 into about 50 products in about a dozen countries, at a guess.
Gained business partners in the US, China, Japan, Taiwan, India, Australia, Canada, Malaysia ...etc
Introduced M18 as well.
Got Q24 close to available,
Launched a dog product,
Patented the products in at least half the world, as far as I can tell.
Gained regulatory permission in most of the world.
Gained GRAS.
Gained access to China.
Launched 3 products into nationwide chains in the US.
Performed human safety trials.
Endured ceaselessly more difficult regulatory regimes world wide, that even the multinationals are struggling with.
Survived as a startup in the worst world crash in about 100 years, that is devestating most of the world.
Put up web sites, youtube, twitter and facebook.
Put up on line sales.
Become the third most popular throat product in NZ, in the face of multinationals.
Developed the technology to put the products into yoghurt, ice cream, beverages, chewing gum and various pills.
Developed ongoing products that are hinted at that we do not know about yet.
Adopted an ice cream company for purposes of both profit and business development.

.... and the result of all this good work .... in their words 'The absence of licensing income and a meaningful volume of branded ingredient sales'

I asked the joker in the corner dairy the other day how much he had sold in the last six months .... and he said about $300k .... to him thats meaningful .... to BLS it is an absence of meaningful volume

weasel

07-03-2012, 10:03 AM

Launched a dog product,

Just the one, dear?

patrick

07-03-2012, 11:20 AM

WINNER 69
Where is the dairy?
Thanks

simla

07-03-2012, 01:50 PM

I hope it doesn't blinker you to the weaknesses of the company.
I can assure you that I am every bit as aware as everyone else of the bits that still need fixing here. I AM a shareholder, which means I have money on the line here. Don't worry.

I don't disagree with anyone about what needs doing. It's blindingly obvious. I just do not understand why nobody is every willing to admit to any of the good stuff. That's a considerable list I just gave. I point out that these are real people, decent people (although I've never yet had the opportunity of meeting any of them), because it constantly astonishes me that nobody every seems to want to encourage them. Do some of the posters here make this much effort in their own workplaces to be so unsupportive of their own staff?

All this talk of poor efforts is weird to me. That list I gave clearly cost a lot of money, and was a vast amount of work. It's not hard to look on this company as making a small profit on relatively small sales, but ploughing a whole lot of cash into future investment, that they hope will pay off. The last half revenue result was a jolt, and the big question is whether that was a hiccup or otherwise. I'll feel a whole lot better when I know the answer to that. But if it was a hiccup, then the thing is still travelling in a pretty straight line from where I'm sitting. Yes, the last result raises the possibility of another issue, but so what? They've been supported so far, and most likely will be again I'd have thought.

I think my recent frustration is at the shareholders. BLT have most of their cards on the table now. Supplements, lots of them, heaps of countries and partners, GRAS, China, ice cream, yoghurt, chewing gum. Just Europe is still playing hard to get. So the likely result now is surely that either this thing is going to work, or it's not. So what have the shareholders said to that? Gloom, gloom, gloom, dump the share price. I just don't get it. Isn't this exactly where we've been wanting the company to get to for a few years now?

Yes, the future of this thing is still unknown. Yes, there are still hurdles to jump. Yes, it could even yet fail. But when someone does so many things right, and so few things wrong, it just baffles me why nobody wants to talk about anything except what's not right yet.

winner69

07-03-2012, 03:01 PM

WINNER 69
Where is the dairy?
Thanks

Why - do you want to buy it?

Busy suburban Wellington .... did admit that quite a chunk of his 'turnover' is punters topping up Snapper cards for which he gets squaddly dit from (good for IFT shareholders) ... so maybe not real 'turnover'

simla

07-03-2012, 03:27 PM

Even the dairy disappointing, huh? Oh well.

Before anyone says "the revenue is all that counts", the company 1. did "a review of our distribution arrangements at significant short term cost to the company in terms of market development and sales opportunities foregone." (last report), and indeed that is the source of our current nervousness, just how much IS that change of global distributor/marketer going to cost? what will be the gains?, and 2. They continually open new markets, GRAS, China, Russia, India etc.

But again, nobody seems to want to even mention that they made, and make, huge efforts to do something about revenue. (Is the dairy making that much effort to improve revenue, then?)

I'm not complaining. I'm just frustrated.

simla

07-03-2012, 04:00 PM

But I am enjoying letting off steam about it. Clears the head something wonderful. Thanks for engaging.

neopoleII

07-03-2012, 07:42 PM

""I just do not understand why nobody is every willing to admit to any of the good stuff""
i used to blow trumpets for this co many years ago, to the point friends and family thought that i was either in too deep or blinded by science. i was like those door knocking bible people......!!
since then, reality has set in, and alot if not most investors either holding these shares or watching from the sidelines know exactly what blis is about and their business model.
the good stuff means nothing if there are no sales.
the reason for no / low sales is the fact that the public either do not know ......the fault of in house advertising or do not care ..... the fault of in house advertising.
we know the product works, but the general public isnt looking for cartoon packaged pills..... there are millions of those for sale. they "need" something that is good for them and healthy and fix their problems. k12 can do alot of that but look at the marketing!
m18 is something that should be in every food product...... just look at the state of the kids teeth in first world countries!.... and yet the public doesnt know about it, cant buy it, or think its like some over-the-top geck thing. if you cant convince the public or convince health care providers to push it, its game over.

look at the toothpaste ads on tv.
or "inner health" or probiotics ads....... fancy ads and people buy.
what has blis got......... about a 1000 cheap website retailers, or they paid bigger health retailers to stock their products.

you can have grass for africa... whoops gras.... and it means squat unless you can sell it.
to sell it you need to either educate the public, convince a government to use it (fluoride), or make it a hip product.

whats the difference between a mouthwash from colgate and blis k12?

k12 is the better product hands down........ but only a few know that.
why?......... advertising.

i used to say sorry for being so negative of blis management, but i lost alot of money to this co, and the reason isnt because of the product.... its because the management refuse to engage "real world" advertising gurus.
this is a classic example of shooting ones self in the foot.
and the doktors still cant grasp it.

not until these products are marketed correctly will things change with blis

and i back that up with a $100k of reality.
i write these posts to save some poor soul from my experience.

having said all that..... if things change..... my trumpet will come out and i'll tell every one i can to go for it and get rich...... because that IS THE POTENTIAL of this co.

patrick

07-03-2012, 09:57 PM

69
Has your post re the dairy been removed?

emearg

10-03-2012, 11:37 AM

They're real people involved in this. They're decent people.

Sorry Simla but personally I don't care if they are decent or not. I don't want to have a beer with them and shoot the breeze. I want them to make a success of this business. I still believe they will, but completely understand the negative sentiment!!! There are midsize players selling to other players but not much in the way of buying from the little players i.e. end customers. That needs to change quickly. Personally I don't believe Blis should be doing the marketing as they don't have the muscle or the capability. They tried that and failed so I think their direct selling model (blis.co.nz) is a waste of money and a distraction as it will only ever be small beer. And even smaller considering how badly the site is laid out. Personally I don't buy from sites that look like a scamming teenager put them together on a rainy afternoon.

Stratum have released their brochures for our germs:
http://www.stratumnutrition.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=vODmUxwEJO8%3d&tabid=4413&language=en-US
http://www.stratumnutrition.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=i--amBY1VNc%3d&tabid=4423&language=en-US

simla

10-03-2012, 05:58 PM

The whole thing's quite funny really: I'm determined to say thank you, you guys are determined not to!

I suspect it's just that I'm older than some of you guys. Young men are usually convinced somebody is to blame for everything. Older men have usually learnt that life's a tougher nut than it looks, and are more inclined to accept that, often as not, failure and success are both children of luck no matter how hard you play the game.

As to the question of ultimate success, though, I'm sure we're agreed: we can only wait and see. I'm sure we're also agreed that we want it to succeed.

emearg

11-03-2012, 04:52 PM

The whole thing's quite funny really: I'm determined to say thank you, you guys are determined not to!

Send them an email or a letter.

simla

22-03-2012, 06:07 PM

Nigel

22-03-2012, 06:48 PM

Yep, that's the most depressing announcement from BLT I can recall. More capital needed. Talk of delisting. Good luck to holders.

neopoleII

22-03-2012, 07:19 PM

so, if the event of closing the company happens...... what happens to the patented products?
are they sold? or given to anyone who wants it? if a big company takes the patents and make it successful... what happens to blt?
one day everyone will have m18 in their toothpaste, too bad blt holders wont get the rewards.
fault can be laid at the door of the board quite a few years ago.

im sure they got their salaries over the years.

unreal...... 100k lost to these docktors. i might write a book using all the feelgood positive announcements made by them over the many years to keep THEIR salaries intact.

the best thing they could do is sell the patents and distribute the funds to shareholders.

10 bucks says they wont be that kind.

winner69

22-03-2012, 07:20 PM

I've read more upbeat announcements than that. They have revenue of 1.1m for the six months, which seems okay, but a loss for the period anyway. We'll have to wait for more detail on what all that means, which I guess we'll get in the coming weeks.

OK .... I'll concede .... BLT are bigger than my corner dairy

But that annoucement reads like the last rites to these decent guys and gals

- Murray & Co to solicit further capital - love that word solicit

- shares instead of cash for the prefs - that'll dilute holders a bit

- Director's agreeing to forego fees - jeez hope they get a decent feed at the meetings

- further operating cost reviews ..... bugger no decent nosh up

- probably delisting - hope not as there would no more interesting stories to readmaintaining an NZX listing.

And to top it all off the whole thing isn't as much as we thought and T$m odd to be written off .... at least thats not cash so doesn't matter eh

Pretty depressing eh .... but it was a 5 oclock announcement

simla

23-03-2012, 06:15 AM

Personally, I look forward to hearing more details over the coming weeks or months, which will no doubt make matters clearer.

simla

23-03-2012, 10:27 AM

Yep, that's the most depressing announcement from BLT I can recall.

Oddly so, since it doesn't really contain particularly different facts than might have been read from the November announcement, as far as I can see. Except that sales picked up sharply. We knew more capital might be needed. Maybe I missed something though.

One interesting possibility is that this announcement is subsequent to the FMA prosecutions. Perhaps all advisors and all boards across the country are now going to paint the barest possible view of everything in future, and never dare push any positive viewpoint, because that's what those prosecutions might suggest is the only safe course. If so, we're in for some dark emotions across all company reports in future, and they will probably have to lighten up the law. Just a thought. No idea if it applies here.

However, I have no idea at all of what to read into that last announcement and await further information. Some in the market seem to have already decided what they think.

neopoleII

23-03-2012, 04:13 PM

the company is now worth 2.5million.
and we have 170,000,000 shares.
what a joke.
obviuosly those at the controls of the company are only good at steering microscopes.

some corner dairies are worth more than this nzx listed company.

utterly pathetic.

simla

23-03-2012, 04:38 PM

How excruciatingly sad watching the share price drop today.

No doubt many people will be blaming "other people" and waiting for "other people" to fix it. But the situation is only possible because so many shareholders have not invested in the company for years. There are 2500 ordinary shareholders last report, then 500 preference shareholders, and then only 179 put up for the last issue.

It is the reluctance of shareholders to buy any more shares in the company that has brought the share price to this low point. Supply and demand. And a lower share price simply dilutes those same existing shareholders on any new issue.

No doubt some will respond by blaming the company for performance. Well, fine, and I don't claim to know better than anyone else. But I still don't agree, as I've explained at length before.

There's much talk of management doing more, but I never seem to hear anything about shareholders doing a better job of their role: supplying capital. I imagine someone will front up with cash for the next round, but most current shareholders sure haven't done much to avoid dilution for themselves when that happens. I know many would be in no position to do so, but I don't believe that is true of most. C'est la vie.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge now, by the look of it, and sadly. We now await developments over the next few months.

neopoleII

23-03-2012, 07:51 PM

with the lack of buyers, you could buy heaps of shares simla and reinvigorate the sp.
if you bought a few hundred at 3 cents, you could double the net value of the company.
if punters see the sp increase by that percentage, lots of others might buy into it and keep raising the sp. a win win for all. ;-)
i had a read of the blis website today and read the obituary of the directors.... doh! the history.....
and they all read like very educated people with awards and top placements here and there...... and yet...... still no success for the co.
reading those director backgrounds reminded me of my boss..... a wall of glass framed university certificates and ownership / shareholdings / directorships in lots of companies....... yet has no idea how any of them work in the real world.
the staff in his businesses manage, design, develop, produce, sell, invoice and customer liaison, he rubber stamps and collects the rewards.
at the very least..... he has the nous to let those who know what their doing do it,
those at blis... seem not to.

i was once told.... its not what you know but who you know, and a silver spoon is helpful.
im not saying that the blis directors are silverspooners, but look at what has happened in the last ten years.
at the end of the day...... what is a director? what is their function? what happens when things go wrong?....... when things go wrong..... they move to the next directorship......
am i angry... yes, dismayed... also, but have learnt enough now to be able to re earn that lost 100k.
whats even sadder ...... there a heaps of inept directors out there that always seem to earn a hefty salary for not much skill.
as they say..... a sucker is born every day.

all i can say to you simla, you have so much potential as a pr person and an internet sleuth, that you should invest your time and energy into a savvy and proactive listed company that is going places....... you would surely give a company like that a positive boast and get rewarded for your effort. blis is dead.... the brains of the operation just dont know it yet.

you have a very bight future simla.... time to re direct your focus.
dont end up like me...........

cheers