WHS - Warehouse Group

[bottomfeeder]

Its a competitve market in Australia and New Zealand already. Amazon just cant ship from Australia, on all items especially on those under a $100, or bulky items, and remain competitive with NZ suppliers all times. Just unrealistic. Ebay has been in NZ for quite a few years now but Trademe keep going strong. The Warehouse, not only has its red sheds but it also has Stationery, Noel Leemings, Torpedo 7, Pet.co, a fitness online seller, etc. The redsheds are contributing less and less to the overall turnover. Their online sales and one day deals are going from strength to strength. The fact that they own less and less of their retail shops, can only mean that they are ready to change their format in the future. When I buy from the warehouse I am secure in the knowledge that they stand behind their guarantee, and sale. You can scaremonger all you like, but I think the impact will be felt more by those independant shops who already are feeling the pinch quite markedly, and their premises will be turned into a cafe or restaurant. (So many of those around now)

No doubt there will always be an impact from another player in the market, and that is always the way and always has been. When there is money to be made another player will enter the market.

I have been buying from Ali Express and E bay for so many years now, but I also still buy from the warehouse. Sometimes you just cant wait a moth for the item and also while its cheap from china, it is sometimes (and not always) cheap and crap. To get what you want online from china sometimes you have to spend more to get exactly what you want. So many features and varieties of stuff around. As an example, I bought a IP camera on one day deals "warehouse" for $40, and it worked first time installed first time, I then bought a similar one from China for $25 including postage. The instructions were crap, it wouldnt connect, just rubbish. That was money down the drain, they said I could get my money back as long as I posted it back to China. They of course would not reimburse my postage costs, and it had to go tracked. I bought another on trade me for $40. Similar story, just crap, couldnt get my money back. I had to consider just where there was value for money. So I dont think that the Warehouse is not going to go broke anytime soon.

But saying that, growth over the next five years may be limited, so they need to become more efficient, cut costs, and work on their marketing and profitibility. I think that is what they are doing.

[artemis]

Its a competitve market in Australia and New Zealand already. Amazon just cant ship from Australia, on all items especially on those under a $100, or bulky items, and remain competitive with NZ suppliers all times. Just unrealistic....

Maybe, maybe not. I buy a bunch of stuff online from the Warehouse / Warehouse Stationery 3 or 4 times a year. Suits me as I don't drive. Maybe $100-$150 a time and it usually arrives in several different packages and from different distribution centres- like 6 packages for 10 items. At $6 for the whole order, they can't be making any money on shipping, even with a bulk courier arrangement. Even from Australia, Amazon might be able to match that.

[bull....]

WAREHOUSE categories will be destroyed, they will be left with big half empty stores there is no way they will be able to compete against amazon - they do not have the buying power of amazon.

AMAZON HAVE STATED THEY WILL DESTROY YOU and anyone else that gets in the road.

See amazon are distancing themselves from the above comment know and are now saying you should learn from us, employ executives from amazon who are better than you as they know our company and will be better able to manage your business when we come to town lol.

[bottomfeeder]

WHS will not go broke imo but underlying profits will decline year on year for at least the next decade.

No compelling reason to invest in the stock.

Except that the price was low and now it has increased, and has quite a large buying support.


There are always scaremongers who take concerns to the extreme. Years ago I knew of a BP service station who got news that a Challenge service station was going to open up just down the road on a busy out of city highway. They got into a panic and started looking to buy a site even further down to move. Someone suggested that you just cant buy land and set up a service station each time someone new opens up down the road further. Advice was that sales will suffer a bit, You need to get more efficient and market your business better and no doubt the service stations down further from both the BP and Challenge will suffer more. This was the true result and the Challenge station closed down a few years later. The BP is still there pumping. The answer to the Warehouse/Amazon future is don't panic, work on your marketing/loyalty cards/efficiency and work to maintain marketshare and markup at the expense of other less prepared retailers.

[bottomfeeder]

Its school holidays...no further comment.

Speaking of no comment, welcome to the forum. I agree 100% with what Balance has said above. Read back through the last ~ 10 pages of this thread. Therein you'll see what a number of us think might be fair value.

Haughty comment as you dont know who I am, how much I have invested in the WHS and what my average entry price is. It may appear when you made this reply a number of you were wrong as to where the shareprice was heading. Then again who knows where the SP will be next month.

[BlackPeter]

Except that the price was low and now it has increased, and has quite a large buying support.


There are always scaremongers who take concerns to the extreme.
...


There are ... however it feels still a bit early to open the bubbly - the share is still in a beautiful downtrend with no buying indicator I can see on green. Not even the volume of the light ripple so far is convincing.

Having said that ... given that I see it at this stage as unlikely them doing a PPL right now, the tide needs to turn at some stage. Not sure though whether this is now, but maybe you know more?

[BIRMANBOY]

Ask him in 6 months he'll have a better perspective then.:eek2: Although if you look at his name maybe he specializes in picking, feeding or examining bottoms......I can sincerely say I would dearly love to be of guru status in that department.
There are ... however it feels still a bit early to open the bubbly - the share is still in a beautiful downtrend with no buying indicator I can see on green. Not even the volume of the light ripple so far is convincing.

Having said that ... given that I see it at this stage as unlikely them doing a PPL right now, the tide needs to turn at some stage. Not sure though whether this is now, but maybe you know more?

[Balance]

There are ... however it feels still a bit early to open the bubbly - the share is still in a beautiful downtrend with no buying indicator I can see on green. Not even the volume of the light ripple so far is convincing.

Having said that ... given that I see it at this stage as unlikely them doing a PPL right now, the tide needs to turn at some stage. Not sure though whether this is now, but maybe you know more?

Yup - can remember punters thinking WHS had bottomed out at $2.70 almost exactly a year ago after the sp recovered - went to a high of $3.15 in Dec 2016 before the precipitous plunge to the low of $2.09 in recent times.

So up 16.7% and then, down 34% - typical of a down trending stock.

Trading is one thing, investing in a down trending stock - from $8.00 to $6.00 to $4.00 to $2.00 - strictly for either the brave or the foolish!

[bottomfeeder]

I was about to outline my strategy, but it sounded like "pride goeth before destruction". However that said, catching a falling knife does work with some companies. Also not all of mine were bought at $2.12, which were sold yesterday. Low margin, high turnover, and also goes with higher risk. But it takes some decision making not to blindly buy at an unsustainable price. Doesnt work all of the time. WYN was a killer, even at 42 cents. Lucky for me I was a bit cautious about software companies and only dipped my toe in the water.

[Balance]

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-meeting-retail-online-shopping-2017-5

One person's view.

[bottomfeeder]

Well you have to respect buffett. I do not doubt what he is saying. WHS has embraced their on online sales activity, and have tuned it to a fine art. I have always bought online at Torpedo7. Also I have made most of my recent purchases at Whs online. Perhaps their strategy of leasing premises, may just fall into place over the next ten years, as they close down unprofitable physical shops. Still I am not a long term holder, but I still believe the Sp has been oversold at less than 2.15.

[bottomfeeder]

Well the announcement this morning would have to have some upside to the SP. Also online sales are increasing.



"Online





Group online sales (NZ) were $45.6M, up 13% or $5.3M compared to the same


quarter last year. Good gains were achieved in The Warehouse, Warehouse


Stationery and Noel Leeming as customers continue their growth of online


shopping. Online sales represent 6.6% of Group sales in the quarter compared


to 6.0% in the same quarter last year. "

I believe their online presence is building with a good customer base. However I have a secret feeling that the sales increase overall is due to a much higher expenditure on advertising. So not sure how that will affect their profitability.

Their red shed concept is becoming a smaller part of their business.

[winner69]

From twitterland:
@carlquintanilla: JCPenney falls below $4.90 to an all-time low, dating back to its IPO in 1978. $JCP

WHS not far off achieving same feat.

[hardt]

$JCP beat EPS expectations, however revenue fell short and that's a scary sight for retail...

Warehouse's expected revenue is over $3bn with NPAT of $55-58m [normalised].

One good thing about WHS is they have maintained growth in sales, At least there is room for WHS to grow earnings over the next couple of years.

Rather invest in a retailer who has something exclusive on offer that cannot be replicated and undercut at every corner - KMD

[Balance]

Race against time for WHS :

1. How fast (and more to the point, profitable) can online sales grow to offset online competition

2. How much of a drag are the hundreds of millions of dollars of lease commitments on future profitability

3. How long can WHS maintain its high dividend payout with sale and leaseback of properties

Given track record of company, directors and management to date - am not an investor.

[bottomfeeder]

Well I bought some at $2-12, sold at $2-22, and bought them back at $2-12. Love the volatility. Why quote J.C. Penny. That company is in the US and is not WHS. Thats like comparing apples with plums, all they have in common is that they are both fruits.

[hardt]

Well I bought some at $2-12, sold at $2-22, and bought them back at $2-12. Love the volatility. Why quote J.C. Penny. That company is in the US and is not WHS. Thats like comparing apples with plums, all they have in common is that they are both fruits.

Both fruits in the same Orchard, an orchard that houses a disease that will ever so slowly decay the fruit, these fruit may last for many years to come, but they will never be what they are today...

The disease is what we call “Marginal Erosion” - With the current plethora of soggy bread on the board, I doubt they can muster enough balls to innovate retail in NZ to the point of being the king.

Just my humble opinion on WHS... trading the shares would be the way to go!

[winner69]

Q3 group sales up $11.3m on pcp - a pretty miserable 1.7%

Nearly 50% of the increase came from online activity

Surely part (or most?) of the online increase is just moving store sales to online. Wonder what % of online is click and collect. I have also seen online sales originated in store when an item is out of stock - online hmmm

I also wonder how much of the online activity is actually new incremental business. I would hazard a guess that it is very little.

[bull....]

A report from international ratings agency Standard & Poor's in May sums it up, saying "the tide of change that began with internet commerce has built into a tsunami called the Amazon Effect, resulting in bricks and mortar retailers shrinking their physical footprints while focusing on shifting more business online or risking being relegated to the remainder bin of retail history".

Sums up a lot of whats been said on the thread about empty store space and large leases being big threats going forward, even if you do move a lot more business to online you still end up with the same problem.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/retail/dark-days-for-retailers-as-cyclone-amazon-approaches-20170511-gw2tck.html

Agree stock is only good for trading as you posters say

[Ogg]

Interesting article about retail in general.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/92376745/online-retail-giants-force-nz-businesses-to-implement-digital-strategies

[winner69]

From USA but always fascinated by this chart

I would hazard a guess that the same sort of trend is happening in NZ

Top line is the general merchandise stores (ie likes of Warehouse) and the bottom line is online retailers without stores

[Baa_Baa]

From USA but always fascinated by this chart

I would hazard a guess that the same sort of trend is happening in NZ

Top line is the general merchandise stores (ie likes of Warehouse) and the bottom line is online retailers without stores

Interesting, but so is what it doesn't say. Only 21.2% of sales are reported in the chart, where are the missing 78.8% of sales originating from?

[bottomfeeder]

Complaints that only a small increase in sales? Could have been worse, could have been a decrease. I would have to agree that big sales increases in the future will be unlikely. But, consolidation of what they have and retention at a better profit margin is just as good. Who needs a bigger ship, we need a tighter ship.

[winner69]

Interesting, but so is what it doesn't say. Only 21.2% of sales are reported in the chart, where are the missing 78.8% of sales originating from?

General Merchandise Stores and Online make up 21.2% of total retail sales - the other 78.8% are all the other retail sectors

[winner69]

Complaints that only a small increase in sales? Could have been worse, could have been a decrease. I would have to agree that big sales increases in the future will be unlikely. But, consolidation of what they have and retention at a better profit margin is just as good. Who needs a bigger ship, we need a tighter ship.

The latest Retail sales data from Stats NZ showed retail spending was up 4.8% in the March quarter over last year(exc cars and fuel). This followed a +4.5% in the December 16 quarter

In this context 1.7% for the WHS is small - NZers are on a spending spree .....but not being attracted to WHS brands

Yes - small increase is better than going backwards

[kiwi_crusader]

Interesting story about Amazon, not just retail but transport as well.

http://fleetowner.com/fleet-management/welcome-amazon-jungle-truckers?page=1

[Baa_Baa]

General Merchandise Stores and Online make up 21.2% of total retail sales - the other 78.8% are all the other retail sectors

That stands to reason, so is it fair to cherry pick some US stats which omit 78.8% of the retail sector and imply a comparison to WHS?

Don't get me wrong, I think you're on the right track with the growth in online retail and the decline in bricks and mortar retail.

I just don't think it's as prevalent in NZ yet, online that is, to sound the death knell of WHS by implication of what's going on in the USA. It is cause for concern, but it's not the end by a long stretch.

My concern would be more fundamental, about the WHS gradually over time propping up shareholder returns by selling large footprint properties, and moving into expensive ongoing lease agreements.

That trend is far more concerning I would think than whether they can profitably maintain a share of the NZ retail market in the short term.

Nevertheless, a strong position in online sales is really a prerequisite to success in the medium to longer term. Some solutions are specifically designed to drive online interest into foot traffic and buyers in retail.

There's even one solution to this listed on NZX.

[Ogg]

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/05/customers-left-devastated-after-furniture-chain-goes-into-receivership.html

Just the tip of the iceberg?

[winner69]

Kmart on the rise and opening 20th store
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/92924561/kmart-adds-to-the-crowd-of-bigbox-retailers-in-petone


"We don't focus on competition, we focus on making sure we've got the best offer. We focus on lowest prices for goods that are on trend and merchandise that gives us a point of difference from other retailers," he said.

[Meextr]

They are also building one in Rotorua to open next year. K-Mart very overrated in my opinion, their crap is not as good as The Warehouse crap, but it does attract the hoards.

[bull....]

Kmart also went online few days ago

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11865927

smarter looking stores with similar pricing to warehouse ramping up the competition ahead of amazon i reckon

[Ogg]

Top story on NZherald

Will this be the death of shopping centres as we know it

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11867253

[bull....]

Top story on NZherald

Will this be the death of shopping centres as we know it

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11867253

oh no and foot traffic for the warehouse

[Meextr]

That's what I thought about the foot traffic to the warehouse. They are the NZ masters of the big shed sellers.

[bull....]

noel leeming staff are getting first hand training in pc gaming - better able to sell pc's for gaming from this i gather

[BlackPeter]

A dying fridge is one of these things you can't ignore for long, meaning I spent yesterday evening fridgehunting on the web. Warehouse had nothing suitable (neither the brands nor the size I was looking for), Noel Leemings only had an inferior model (based on the recent Consumer report) and that too dear. I was surprised that Smiths City had the best offer (exactly the size we need, good brand and model and reasonable price) - they got the deal and just confirmed delivery for next Tuesday (Given the holiday I was sort of resigned in waiting up to another week). Not too bad given that we live somewhat on the country side ...

Maybe I should research their shares ;)

[bottomfeeder]

I think it is true, Malls have traditionally charged very high rents and OPEX. The individual shops, just cannot make ends meet with the premises costs and the flight of shoppers to the Big Box stores and online. I have some experience with several mall type operations and tenants just are not renewing leases or getting the landlord to reduce the rents. Landlords are accepting it because without the tenant, they still have to pay rates and opex. Just what does this mean. I think some smaller stores will continue, but the landlord will have to drop rents. Similarly with the Warehouse. Once their lease comes up and they threaten to leave, they are in such a good position to get a rent reduction. So its not all doom and gloom for the Warehouse. They have still a lot of ability to reduce costs. I think there is far worse investments than the WHS. Being a commercial landlord for instance.

[Snoopy]

A dying fridge is one of these things you can't ignore for long, meaning I spent yesterday evening fridgehunting on the web. Warehouse had nothing suitable (neither the brands nor the size I was looking for), Noel Leemings only had an inferior model (based on the recent Consumer report) and that too dear. I was surprised that Smiths City had the best offer (exactly the size we need, good brand and model and reasonable price) - they got the deal and just confirmed delivery for next Tuesday (Given the holiday I was sort of resigned in waiting up to another week). Not too bad given that we live somewhat on the country side ...

Maybe I should research their shares ;)


'Snap' BP.

My fridge died at the beginning of the year. However rather than 'panic' and buy the wrong kind, just because I needed one, I decided to rent for three months. Well, I decided to rent, and three months was the miniumum contract time! A nice Mitsubishi fridge arrived within the day, so none of the items that were in my old fridge spoiled. I figured that the cost of my rental was paid for by the food I saved from spoiling, and the pressure was off for buying my new one. But the hunt for my own new fridge was on! I was keen to find out more about the new generation of low energy 'eco fridges', the best of which looked to be a couple of Korean brands.

I had a good look at Harvey Norman Addington, and perused the 'soiled stock' (soiling meaning a dent in the cabinet that could not be seen once the said fridge was tucked into my kitchen wall space). That dent would have saved me a few hundred bucks. Good selection of brands and sizes. But I kept looking, as salesperson didn't seem particularly 'fridge knowledgable'. Next I went to 'Smiths City'. Yes they had the fridge I was interested in. But a check on their computer stock list revealed it was out at their Northwood Centre. So I said thanks and went there. Salesman very helpful and pricing OK, but I decided I needed to go home and double check the size of my 'hole in the wall'. Darn it! The fridges I was looking at were millimetres too tall or too wide! So came to the conclusion the trusty old F&P fridge would give me maximum fridge space for my 'hole in the wall'.

Had a look at my new target fridge in Farmers Riccarton. Shop soiled again, but with a couple of hundred bucks off to allow for a non pristine purchase. Had a look at Noel Leemings in Riccarton. They had just the fridge I was after and it was reduced, but again shop soiled. Staff not that attentive. At this stage I had decided on the basic fridge but hadn't decided on the door design or finish. Went to Noel Leemings again, but this time the Papanui branch. There I struck gold. An older salesman who really knew his stuff. He was able to walk me through the F&P catalogue and explain to me the different features of what looked on the surface to be identical fridges. Yes the special price was still on and yes they had one brand new fridge of exactly the kind I wanted coming into the Rolleston distribution centre the next day. Would I like it? So I signed up. I was able to get the old fridge away too, when the new one arrived. So overall couldn't be happier. Great mint condition fridge, great service, great price (about $500 off retail, even though we all know that no-one ever pays that). Delivery people gave me the quick guide to the fridge features once it was running too.

Well done Noel Leemings Papanui!

SNOOPY

discl: do not hold WHS shares , but maybe I need to look again while they are still 'on sale'?

[JeremyALD]

I can't see what will turn sentiment on this one for a while. Clearly their finance business is doing poorly and sales and margins are pretty flat. What will get people's confidence back in WHS in the short term?

[winner69]

I can't see what will turn sentiment on this one for a while. Clearly their finance business is doing poorly and sales and margins are pretty flat. What will get people's confidence back in WHS in the short term?

Nothing will I reckon - will hold up if they maintain divie at current levels (by selling properties)

What you reckon could get people's confidence back (assuming there once was some)

[bottomfeeder]

I can't see what will turn sentiment on this one for a while. Clearly their finance business is doing poorly and sales and margins are pretty flat. What will get people's confidence back in WHS in the short term?

Slow but steady wins the race, WHS will never be a high flying capital gainer, but needs a chance to work on their strategies. What do you think K.

[Beagle]

Like the other hound I am on the hunt for a new appliance and am an unhappy hound so I will be visiting Noel Leeming today. 6 1/4 years ago I purchased a (at the time) state of the art Samsung 52 inch television. Lately its been playing merry hell with not switching on, taking ages to get the capacitors to generate enough power to light the set up. Still has a great picture but getting it going is the issue and its getting steadily worse. Did some research on this yesterday and its all over the net, Samsung using under spec capacitors in their T.V's...basically they simply don't want them to last do they ! What really grinds my gears though is that Samsung seem to have the best picture quality but their new wiz bang fancy pants ultra high definition sets costing many thousands of dollars have a....wait for it..."whopping" 12 months warranty...I wonder why, (sarcasm intended). When some poor salesperson says can I help you to me later today, they might just encounter a very grumpy hound that barks out, yes you can, can you please show me the best televisions that have a proper warranty...that will be an excellent conversation starter. I'll also visit JB Hi Fi in the same mall, be interesting to compare prices, might go to Harvey Norman later this weekend. Rant over...(I feel slightly better already getting that off my chest LOL)

[Jay]

Think I read on CNet that Samsung should stick to making phones or words to that effect.
We have a Panasonic 43" Plasma that is coming up 11 years old, still going strong - hope that is not famous last words!
But also looking to renew soon, be interested in to see what you end up with - also looking at the 50-55" range

Could also try Magness Benrow if there is one near you

To keep a loose tie to the thread would not buy one of the Warehouse brands!, thought they do stock Sonys(??) and it would nearly as rear as Hen's teeth to find someone
there who knows what they are talking about re TV's etc ??

[percy]

Like the other hound I am on the hunt for a new appliance and am an unhappy hound so I will be visiting Noel Leeming today. 6 1/4 years ago I purchased a (at the time) state of the art Samsung 52 inch television. Lately its been playing merry hell with not switching on, taking ages to get the capacitors to generate enough power to light the set up. Still has a great picture but getting it going is the issue and its getting steadily worse. Did some research on this yesterday and its all over the net, Samsung using under spec capacitors in their T.V's...basically they simply don't want them to last do they ! What really grinds my gears though is that Samsung seem to have the best picture quality but their new wiz bang fancy pants ultra high definition sets costing many thousands of dollars have a....wait for it..."whopping" 12 months warranty...I wonder why, (sarcasm intended). When some poor salesperson says can I help you to me later today, they might just encounter a very grumpy hound that barks out, yes you can, can you please show me the best televisions that have a proper warranty...that will be an excellent conversation starter. I'll also visit JB Hi Fi in the same mall, be interesting to compare prices, might go to Harvey Norman later this weekend. Rant over...(I feel slightly better already getting that off my chest LOL)

If you decide to buy from Leemings,take you mother's gold card with you.!
They love to give oldies special prices.Seem to remember they gave me 30% off the vacum cleaner I brought off them, 9 months ago.

[Beagle]

Well...I have consistently said Noel Leeming is the jewel in the crown of the WHS brand, (shame the rest of the crown is so tarnished).
I was like a dog left speechless looking for a good howl...all set to waste most of my weekend kicking tyres on this, (digging deep down for the best bone LOL). Walked into local Noel Leeming, instantly saw a familiar face, the guy that sold my original set to me over 6 years ago...you here for a new telly mate he asked ? Yeah the old one is toast...probably electrical surges mate he replied, they fry capacitors even with surge protectors he said but have I got the perfect deal for you...it was like the guy was reading my mind...spooky. 55inch curved screen, (how did he know I like the new curved screens for wrap around immersive viewing ????) Samsung ultra high definition brand new in the box, not the 20% off sale of demo's they'd had running in their shop forever and a day. These were $3,200 six months ago mate, let me do you a good deal....hound muttered to himself under his breath... yeah, yeah I've heard that song before, quietly expecting about $2,200- $2,300 as have seen advertised elsewhere, $1,597 mate, really good T.V. you'll be very pleased with it. Hmmmm, couldn't help myself and bleated about the short warranty, I'll do you a 3 year extended warranty for $99, normally $199 mate. What's an hound to do with a blinder deal like that handed on a silver platter. All done, total 3-4 minutes in store. I knew the guy and know he's a straight shooter no B.S. salesman. No point looking around and shopping around when you're handed a ripper deal that solves you warranty concerns. Superb service. Saved hours of hassle and frustration.

[percy]

Great deal.Well done.

[Beagle]

Thanks Percy. Truth is you can pay up to three times that price, even on sale, for the very latest 2017 model of the same brand / sized telly with some allegedly better technology for a shaper image http://www.jbhifi.co.nz/tv-lcd-led-plasma/samsung/55-inch-curved-qled-smart-tv-sku-333241/ but as you get a bit older with not quite such good eyesight, a new prescription pair of glasses would probably make more difference :)
Top Tip - How do you turn a 55 inch ultra high definition T.V. worth $1600 into a 75 inch ultra high definition telly worth $7,000 ? Sit a fair bit closer, they both have the same screen resolution, you get exactly the same effect of the bigger telly by sitting closer to the slightly less big one :)

[Sideshow Bob]

We have a Panasonic 43" Plasma that is coming up 11 years old, still going strong - hope that is not famous last words!

Ditto, ours has never skipped a beat.

[winner69]

Good stories. About Noel Leemings. - good from a consumer perspective but horrendous from a shareholders perspective

If thats what needed to make a sale no wonder NL operating margin is a razor thin 2%. Take of a share of interest and tax not much made on Roger's tele.

Competitive market sector.

[percy]

Good stories. About Noel Leemings. - good from a consumer perspective but horrendous from a shareholders perspective

If thats what needed to make a sale no wonder NL operating margin is a razor thin 2%. Take of a share of interest and tax not much made on Roger's tele.

Competitive market sector.

You will enjoy SCY's latest announcement.

[winner69]

You will enjoy SCY's latest announcement.

At least SCY has unlike WHS a finance arm that makes money

Giving cash back to shareholders - is that a sign more acquisitions off the table.

[percy]

Yes the finance company makes money,and the retail does not [or very little],but then retail supplies the finance company's customers.
Cash back to shareholders shows Ron Brierley and others influence.I will reframe from commenting.
Latest acquisition ,Furniture City, has fallen short of expectations,however they are still talking the talk,but walking the walk ,appears to be a very long way off.

[janner]

Yes the finance company makes money,and the retail does not [or very little],but then retail supplies the finance company's customers.
Cash back to shareholders shows Ron Brierley and others influence.I will reframe from commenting.
Latest acquisition ,Furniture City, has fallen short of expectations,however they are still talking the talk,but walking the walk ,appears to be a very long way off.

Total agreement.. Hold No Retail what so ever.. Never have. The times they are a'changin still rings true in my ears.

Buy the suppliers, suppliers.. Banks..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7qQ6_RV4VQ

[whatsup]

Nudging $2.00 atm, big fall over the last year and a long way from the glory days, it has not been a good investment for the Norman family ( Pascoes/Farmers and a few other companies )

[Beagle]

Good stories. About Noel Leemings. - good from a consumer perspective but horrendous from a shareholders perspective

If thats what needed to make a sale no wonder NL operating margin is a razor thin 2%. Take of a share of interest and tax not much made on Roger's tele.

Competitive market sector.

Makes you think doesn't it. Just over 4 years ago I paid $4,000 for a 52 inch Samsung high definition set. On the weekend I pay just a little over one third of that for a bigger 55 inch curved Ultra high definition television. Really makes you wonder about the margin doesn't it...not surprised their net margin is only 2%. They have to pay staff and expensive shopping mall rent / outgoings out of that modest sale.
Of course some people waltz in and must have the latest 2017 model with the latest quantum dot technology or whatever they call it that supposed to be a little bit clearer, (and quite possibly is but I didn't really notice much difference) for three times the price but how many people outlay $5,000+ on a new telly these days when you can get a really good one at such a realistic price ? The hound splashed out and ordered up Sky sport for the America's cup...must admit those boats looked razor sharp on the new telly this morning tearing around at 40 knots. Poor old WHS...caught in a spiral of cheaper and cheaper goods with lower $ margins but increasing leases and staff costs and severe losses on their finance company fisaco...Hmmm... $1.50 next port of call ?

[kiwico]

I don't if any/many of you are subscribers to the Australian Intelligent Investor but in the answer to a recent question "Will Amazon affect Trade Me?" the post script was about how expensive and old-fashioned the analyst found a Warehouse store to be, along with the comment "I’d certainly be much more worried about Amazon if I was a Warehouse Group shareholder."

[bull....]

I don't if any/many of you are subscribers to the Australian Intelligent Investor but in the answer to a recent question "Will Amazon affect Trade Me?" the post script was about how expensive and old-fashioned the analyst found a Warehouse store to be, along with the comment "I’d certainly be much more worried about Amazon if I was a Warehouse Group shareholder."

Its not only amazon who the warehouse have to worry about its K-MART as well really getting there act together new facilities in asia are allowing them to lower prices more.

[LAC]

K-Mart keep things relevant, you go into the Red Sheds and u can still pick up 2015 merchandise. WHS needs simplification!!! old methods of doing business isnt working, when will they realise that? They have the locations, they just need innovation and simplicity. Parts of the business that isnt performing as expected get the chop and invest in the parts that are. Crazy that in 2017 they are still making the same decisions.

[bottomfeeder]

We can always take the contrary view, Amazon and K-Mart should worry about the Warehouse and think twice about entering the market full force.

[percy]

We can always take the contrary view, Amazon and K-Mart should worry about the Warehouse and think twice about entering the market full force.

Absolute classic.!
Funnist post this year.

[bull....]

We can always take the contrary view, Amazon and K-Mart should worry about the Warehouse and think twice about entering the market full force.

very funny :D

New accounting rules on the way in regard to lease obligations will also affect warehouse quite badly going forward.

[Sideshow Bob]

I wonder how much it cost them to have the Torpedo7 name on the mainsail of ETNZ?

Would have thought a lot of money, for limited benefit. I mean it isn't exactly an international business. Maybe it meant the directors had to go to Bermuda to see how their sponsorship was going.............??

[bottomfeeder]

I wonder how much it cost them to have the Torpedo7 name on the mainsail of ETNZ?

Would have thought a lot of money, for limited benefit. I mean it isn't exactly an international business. Maybe it meant the directors had to go to Bermuda to see how their sponsorship was going.............??

Obvious you saw it as did I. I just wonder how many other did. Maybe good value advertising.

[bottomfeeder]

Couldn't care what anyone thinks, just dont you love the volatility. Who care about Amazon or K- Mart, or what the effects of their business can bring, as long as the SP keeps going up and down by 7 cents or more it keeps me happy. So much for funny posts, or whatever. You suckers that analyse the perceived benefits of how Amazon will rule the world are just dumb asses. Warehouse is here to stay. Once someone suggested in another life " who took the bite out of APPLE (for those dumb asses, Apple has a bite out of it, check out the logo}". Competition affects the biggest players worst. Even though Amazon has not entered the market yet it affects the SP of Warehouse more than you can imagine. Now I will have to explain to some of you dumb asses, the apple has a bite out of it. The Warehouse is a trading share big time. Now I will have to apologise, I am over exuberant as I think too many posters just think they know just everything. With respect to those out there when you make a few bucks you do get a bit excited. So I will say to everyone out there, never be confident in you opinion, never complain or disparage others opinions, just accept that others have different opinions to YOU.
Sorry I have had a few glases of CHAMPAGNE, may also be crying in my glass in a week or two.

[Hoop]

Price history at a glance (chart)
Interesting that WHS high points were at the end of booms and at the beginnings of both recessions..and now the price is back near its IPO...The market gaveth and the market tooketh away
https://www.tradingview.com/x/3ghQagBZ/

[bottomfeeder]

Price history at a glance (chart)
Interesting that WHS high points were at the end of booms and at the beginnings of both recessions..and now the price is back near its IPO...The market gaveth and the market tooketh away
https://www.tradingview.com/x/3ghQagBZ/

So many times I have looked at SP, long time ago, last week, etc, just doesn't matter. Current news current volatility, current SP is all that matters. Long term investors need to buy at a low price as do traders. The knack is picking when this is the time.

Nevertheless if you dont get it right the first time dont't committ yourself fully, until you really get the feel of the SP.

[peat]

to me it looks either terminal, or $4 later this year.
massive falling wedge overshadowed by $2.50 support failing without a whimper.

[bottomfeeder]

to it looks either terminal, or $4 later this year.
massive falling wedge overshadowed by $2.50 support failing without a whimper.

Duh, back to the future.

[Hectorplains]

Forward PE around 13 - based on their own estimates but how much faith can be placed in them after the terrible March result?

Plenty of headwinds - Amazon etc. No growth strategy being articulated - just meaningless verbiage... "prepare the organisation for future success, whilst at the same time ensuring we stabilise current performance trends".

Confirmed downtrend in place...

GLTH

[winner69]

Amazon going bricks and mortar

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/16/amazon-buy-whole-foods-market-organic-food-fresh

[BlackPeter]

Couldn't care what anyone thinks, just dont you love the volatility. Who care about Amazon or K- Mart, or what the effects of their business can bring, as long as the SP keeps going up and down by 7 cents or more it keeps me happy. So much for funny posts, or whatever. You suckers that analyse the perceived benefits of how Amazon will rule the world are just dumb asses. Warehouse is here to stay. Once someone suggested in another life " who took the bite out of APPLE (for those dumb asses, Apple has a bite out of it, check out the logo}". Competition affects the biggest players worst. Even though Amazon has not entered the market yet it affects the SP of Warehouse more than you can imagine. Now I will have to explain to some of you dumb asses, the apple has a bite out of it. The Warehouse is a trading share big time. Now I will have to apologise, I am over exuberant as I think too many posters just think they know just everything. With respect to those out there when you make a few bucks you do get a bit excited. So I will say to everyone out there, never be confident in you opinion, never complain or disparage others opinions, just accept that others have different opinions to YOU.
Sorry I have had a few glases of CHAMPAGNE, may also be crying in my glass in a week or two.

Hmm - an outstanding example to demonstrate that posting under the influence might be as dumb as drink-driving.

Anyway - outstanding article in today's New York Times about the fight between Amazon and Walmart ... and what it might mean for the rest of the smaller players:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/upshot/the-amazon-walmart-showdown-that-explains-the-modern-economy.html

Does not look good for other retailers unless they have the firepower to compete in this race. I am sure, though some Chinese (alibaba) and maybe a couple of European retailers might survive as well - but the Warehouse? Really?

[JeremyALD]

Hmm - an outstanding example to demonstrate that posting under the influence might be as dumb as drink-driving.

Anyway - outstanding article in today's New York Times about the fight between Amazon and Walmart ... and what it might mean for the rest of the smaller players:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/upshot/the-amazon-walmart-showdown-that-explains-the-modern-economy.html

Does not look good for other retailers unless they have the firepower to compete in this race. I am sure, though some Chinese (alibaba) and maybe a couple of European retailers might survive as well - but the Warehouse? Really?

i think the whs group has a future and will have stability in Noel Leeming and T7 for the foreseeable future, however they need to scale down the red sheds and change their approach. Business as usual will result in a long and painful demise of the red sheds. They haven't aged particularly well and the times of digital sale outlets will kill them unless they change. One benefit the Warehouse has is it has a couple of years or so before the Amazon threat states taking away damaging market share IMO.

They also need to make a decision about the financial services business. They can't just 'try' for another few years losing money. They either need to back it 100% and take a risk building scale (which seems is their current approach) or they need to ditch it and work on their core business. WHS Group needs to stop trying to diversify and start being the best at what they do, whether that's through product, customer intimacy or price. I think they've lost that focus over the last decade by trying to be ok to good at everything. They have also focussed on price which is being eroding by competition and market pressure.

[bull....]

Consultancy Deloitte was more bullish about Amazon's prospects, saying it would "disrupt almost every retail category", lead to further growth in online retailing, and push down prices and profit margins."Amazon's entry is expected to have a huge effect on the retail landscape over the coming years," it said."The biggest changes – increasing online expenditure and competition – will force retailers to step up or lose market share, as prices and other forms of competition intensify."In addition, Deloitte said Amazon would create opportunities for small opportunities to sell their wares to a huge audience, but crush big retailers.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/retail/gerry-harvey-says-amazon-expansion-will-be-slower-than-expected-20170602-gwj7dg.html

[dagdaniel1]

Any TA traders thinking this is a good buy now? From my charts it seems to have broken through the intermediate downtrend.

[BlackPeter]

Any TA traders thinking this is a good buy now? From my charts it seems to have broken through the intermediate downtrend.

Hmm - it did brake through the MA100 (which is a good start). But than - the RSI is very high (overbought?) ... and from a fundamental perspective I wouldn't see the sky as the limit ...

But than - I am not a TA trader anyway ...

[kizame]

Nup missed the boat a little ,it's gapped up already. From $2-$2.10 was the basing pattern,don't chase wait for the pullback. IMOP

[bull....]

bounce from oversold i reckon

[peat]

Any TA traders thinking this is a good buy now? From my charts it seems to have broken through the intermediate downtrend.

I dont let TA put me in companies that have lost their way. I'm considering suggesting its becoming a sell as in get out while you can. but , unusually this is a very FA view.

[dagdaniel1]

Ok, cheers guys for the thoughts

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/304392

Share price action in the last week suggests information has been leaking to the market on whatever is to be announced.

INSIDER TRADING inquiry coming up?

[hardt]

More trouble at the big red shed today?

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/304392

Share price action in the last week suggests information has been leaking to the market on whatever is to be announced.

INSIDER TRADING inquiry coming up?

Yep ......something positive likely. A 10% jump in a week is quite a lot.

Another attempt at going private?

Or a big takeover about to happen?

[bull....]

keeping the market informed before results?

[ratkin]

Interesting, how long it for?

[winner69]

Stuff has big headline - warehouse in trading halt ......with very little else in the story

For the man on the street that could suggest stores a closed today

[Raz]

Stuff has big headline - warehouse in trading halt ......with very little else in the story

For the man on the street that could suggest stores a closed today

Well this will be fun..just head it on the radio...

[Balance]

Stuff has big headline - warehouse in trading halt ......with very little else in the story

For the man on the street that could suggest stores a closed today

Haha - so true!

There is a suggestion that talks have been talking place and company decided to put on trading halt as word has leaked out. Pure speculation of course.

[Beagle]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/304392

Share price action in the last week suggests information has been leaking to the market on whatever is to be announced.

INSIDER TRADING inquiry coming up?

Looking at the graph it looks suspicious I agree 100%. More leaks than a sieve and definitely warrants an investigation if this is a positive announcement. Volume hasn't been especially strong but it would appear some naughty dogs have been at work after being given a head start on the hunt. If proven to be insider trading FMA needs to start locking people up for this sort of thing otherwise white collar criminals think its all just fair game to bend the rules, after all hard working management deserve a head start chasing the rabbit don't they !

[trader_jackson]

Finance unit being sold off in a fire sale to Flexigroup?

I'm sure this isn't it, but given WHS has struggled to get their financial divisions going (impaired last results announcement), could be viewed as a positive thing they get rid of it before it continues to drag on them

[winner69]

Hey Balance - you just 'prompted speculation' ...I'm a 'pundit'

Ha ha funny as

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/95034360/the-warehouse-shares-in-trading-halt

[sb9]

Hey Balance - you just 'prompted speculation' ...I'm a 'pundit'

Ha ha funny as

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/95034360/the-warehouse-shares-in-trading-halt

Winner and Balance world famous on Stuff....lol

[Ogg]

It's likely going to be a take over offer.

[kiwitrev]

It's a third party released ann. so could be much awaited offer from JP.

[777]

Winner and Balance world famous on Stuff....lol

You are correct but for opposite reasons.

[kiwitrev]

It's a third party released ann. so could be much awaited offer from JP.

If it is a takeover offer not likely by NZ listed coy as corresponding ann. required. JP is private coy.

[bull....]

finalising huge downgrade

[Beagle]

How much value can there be in this tired old brand given all the expensive sale and lease back's of buildings many of which themselves are now very tired ?

[sb9]

For what its worth my 2c is on two likely scenarios....move by Normans (of Farmers) or another ugly trading down grade...

[bull....]

For what its worth my 2c is on two likely scenarios....move by Normans (of Farmers) or another ugly trading down grade...

yea why would you launch a takeover now with amazon coming soon, it would be smarter to wait and see how it pans out.

[kiwitrev]

For what its worth my 2c is on two likely scenarios....move by Normans (of Farmers) or another ugly trading down grade...

Can't be trading downgrade. Read the ann. It is an ann. by someone other than WHS

[Ogg]

It's obvious that it's private equity buy out. News has leaked and that's why the share price has been up lately.

The Amazon threat was over stated and even for retail WHS is trading to a huge discount.

Expect massive layoffs, restructuring of assets, sell off of the finance unit etc. Head office closed or moved out of town. Increase in total debt. Then a refloat 5 years from now. Standard play really.

[mikeybycrikey]

Increase in total debt. Then a refloat 5 years from now. Standard play really.

Then bankruptcy because it has been overburdened by debt once PE has cashed out.

[Ogg]

Then bankruptcy because it has been overburdened by debt once PE has cashed out.

Their accountants will sprinkle some magic on it.

[winner69]

Can't be trading downgrade. Read the ann. It is an ann. by someone other than WHS

Isn't WHS the 3rd party

Ann was from NZX saying 'at the request of the company......' (sic WHS)

But then what the heck do I know how these things work

[bull....]

It's obvious that it's private equity buy out. News has leaked and that's why the share price has been up lately.

The Amazon threat was over stated and even for retail WHS is trading to a huge discount.

Expect massive layoffs, restructuring of assets, sell off of the finance unit etc. Head office closed or moved out of town. Increase in total debt. Then a refloat 5 years from now. Standard play really.

i be surprised otherwise they be all over stuff like myers in aus as well similar situation and anyway w/h already debt laden

[winner69]

Stephen back from his jaunt in Bermuda with Torpedo7 Team NZ

Had a bit of time to reflect what to do with his holdings in WHS

Got back home and put things into action and ............

[biker]

It's obvious that it's private equity buy out. News has leaked and that's why the share price has been up lately.

The Amazon threat was over stated and even for retail WHS is trading to a huge discount.

Expect massive layoffs, restructuring of assets, sell off of the finance unit etc. Head office closed or moved out of town. Increase in total debt. Then a refloat 5 years from now. Standard play really.

They'd have to get it first. Depends on the price.

[RTM]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/94898470/martin-hawes-investing-amid-the-changing-nature-of-retail

And on top of everything we have the changing nature of retail. Don't have any investments in that area at all. I also avoid REIT's that focus on shopping malls.

[Hoop]

Stephen back from his jaunt in Bermuda with Torpedo7 Team NZ

Had a bit of time to reflect what to do with his holdings in WHS

Got back home and put things into action and ............

The problem at the moment is conjecture....

The investor unfriendly NZX puts out a lack of information announcement causing us investors to read between the lines...much of this logical assumption will be wrong.................the result--misinformation flooding the forums and other media.

Say for example Winners above post was released by the NZX...with that limited info I could conjecture and post..

Stephen has just released a torpedo and sunk Team NZ in the middle of the Warehouse somewhere in NZ(home)

[winner69]

A trading halt should be followed by locking further posts on appropriate sharetrader thead to avoid conjecture and speculation.

Good idea?

But then how would stuff get any content

[macduffy]

The problem at the moment is conjecture....

The investor unfriendly NZX puts out a lack of information announcement causing us investors to read between the lines...much of this logical assumption will be wrong.................the result--misinformation flooding the forums and other media.

Say for example Winners above post was released by the NZX...with that limited info I could conjecture and post..

Stephen has just released a torpedo and sunk Team NZ in the middle of the Warehouse somewhere in NZ(home)

I don't think that you can blame the NZX for the content of the announcement. It's pretty standard for companies to request a trading halt, eg when there is a danger of trading continuing before a deal is completed. Far better than to allow trading in an uninformed market.

[bull....]

warehouse should ditch have of the s.it they sell and close all noel leaming and warehouse stationary stores and fold them all under one roof- save heaps on lease costs, staff costs, head office costs etc etc and then rebrand get rid of the warehouse brand its had its day. but i guess the new guy supported by the board will continue to waste millions on a no hope situation in its current state.
gee when the warehouse closes one day there be lots of mall spaces around.

wonder if they thought the same

[Ogg]

https://nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/304431

Sale of financial assets. Loss of $16M.

LOL, nothing to see here folks, move along.

[Beagle]

They simply lack any plausible cohesive plan to reinvigorate what is a very tired old brand. Believing they can turnaround the finance division against a wide plethora of other financial service providers seems a fanciful idea at best and far more likely to see an ongoing destruction of shareholder value. Far better to admit its a mistake and write the thing off but of course that requires fresh clean sheet thinking and I think that's beyond them...



According to 4traders the average analyst EPS for FY18 is 19 cps. Personally I think there is an AWFUL LOT of risk to that earnings estimate.
Choose whatever PE you think is appropriate. Percy's 7.5 for example gives $1.43. On the other hand BP might think a PE of 12 is appropriate giving fair value of $2.28 so trading at $2.36 cum a 10 cent dividend is "an opportunity".
Me - I will not buy stocks in a downtrend no exceptions ! This becomes a theoretical exercise of academic interest only but if someone put a gun to my head and forced me to pick what I think is a fair PE in the circumstances I would probably have to go with only 8.5-9 after seeing such a stellar performer as BGR trading on 15 point something.

Upon reflection I think 8.5 -9 x 19 = $1.61 -$1.71 is a fairer price range than the $2.00 I suggested the other day but the caveat to that is I would only invest at that price if I believed management had a viable plan to turn the company around and stem the losses in the finance unit.

Disc: I am currently considering investing in Briscoes. I think its an under appreciated stock considering its truly stellar growth record.

Seems fashionable to quote old posts today. These from March 2017. I see no reason as a result of this finance division sale to change my point of view although at least they have woken up and smelt the coffee so maybe they might, over a significant period of time, inject some life into this very tired mature brand.

[JeremyALD]

Whilst it's good they're getting rid of the financial services business what a bloody terrible decision it was creating a financial services business in first place in what is a completely saturated market. The Warehouse have a string of failed attempts at creating additional shareholder value and I have little faith moving forward in a transformation.

[JeremyALD]

Serious question, but does anything new the Warehouse try ever work?


Moving into Australia
Trying to sell liquor
Creating instore pharmacies
Starting the Warehouse Extra and trying to compete with supermarkets
Starting Warehouse Mobile and opening with terrible, confusing plans in a hypercompetitive market and not offering any bundle deals
Starting Warehouse Money in a completely saturated market. Also they learnt nothing from the gaint flop that was One Card Visa in Countdown Supermarkets. In fact they hired the GM of that project for their venture. What did you get? The exact same outcome. Then they leverage out their interest free offers to Lattitude Financial Services where the most money is made? The model is crap.


The only good things they have done is when they focus on their core business or extending it, e.g. buying Noel Leeming. They seriously need to learn a few lessons from Briscoes (which by the way in now New Zealand's largest listed retailer).

They just need to get rid of Warehouse Mobile and my list will be complete!

[macduffy]

I guess Warehouse Stationery was a successful new business once - but that seems a long time ago!

:sleep:

[sb9]

Bugger..bit of fizzer after all that excitement since morning, absolute anti-climax...:eek2:

[trackers]

Whilst it's good they're getting rid of the financial services business what a bloody terrible decision it was creating a financial services business in first place in what is a completely saturated market. The Warehouse have a string of failed attempts at creating additional shareholder value and I have little faith moving forward in a transformation.

Yeah Warehouse selling loans was a terrible idea.... So, selling for $18 million, with a $16 million impairment plus whatever they've lost to date... That's a massive fail.

Having said that, glad they haven't just kicked the can down the road for a few years on it like they could have potentially

[percy]

So does The Warehouse customer base take SBS upmarket or down market.?

[Beagle]

So does The Warehouse customer base take SBS upmarket or down market.?

Not sure but I am very pleased that Heartland bank didn't buy it, what amounts to perhaps a "hospital pass". All those losses must be there for a reason(s), not solely because of lack of scale.

[winner69]

They retain Diners Club NZ

What does that imply?

[trader_jackson]

Finance unit being sold off in a fire sale to Flexigroup?

I'm sure this isn't it, but given WHS has struggled to get their financial divisions going (impaired last results announcement), could be viewed as a positive thing they get rid of it before it continues to drag on them

Well I was right about the fire sale of the finance unit... carry on

[percy]

Not sure but I am very pleased that Heartland bank didn't buy it, what amounts to perhaps a "hospital pass". All those losses must be there for a reason(s), not solely because of lack of scale.

Exactly........

[winner69]

There was a guy from House of Travel on the radio this morning. He said that for his company to thrive in this world of disruption they need to disrupt themselves. (Self disrupt, like partnering with disruptor Airbnb).

Warehouse thinking on the other hand seems to be how do we self destruct.

[Beagle]

There was a guy from House of Travel on the radio this morning. He said that for his company to thrive in this world of disruption they need to disrupt themselves. (Self disrupt, like partnering with disruptor Airbnb).

Warehouse thinking on the other hand seems to be how do we self destruct.

Self destruct if they like but I'm not sure this is really fixable because the core issue seems to be if you're a high quality brand its best not to tarnish your brand by being associated with what is ostensibly a down-market retailer...the exception is Noel Leeming because the average Joe Bloggs doesn't know its owned by the Warehouse. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear no matter how hard you try but you can be sure management and directors will try every which way they can to do exactly that, probably all to no avail. Tough few years ahead for shareholders in my opinion. AVOID ! Better off in HLG, BGR or KMD I reckon.

[huxley]

Selling off the underperforming financial services business seems like a step in the right direction..I mean what was the point of deploying that capital just so you could be a customer's 5th choice of credit card or insurance provider?!

I don't really think the customer proposition ever really stacked up.

There probably is a viable - market leading- business model somewhere in WHS. They really need to keep simplifying the business and focus on core areas where they can win, similar to the likes of K-mart etc. Good luck to any holders, I predict lots of competition in their space in the future:)

[kiwico]

As a Warehouse Money cardholder I saw it solely as a discount card when buying something like a cheap pair of wellies. [the spellchecker tried to change that into something else....]

A 5% discount most of the time, a 10% discount some of the time and occasionally a 20% discount, especially around Christmas. They certainly won't have made anything from a Warehouse Money cardholder that pays their card off in full each month.

[Beagle]

Exactly........

Good sign that HBL management can easily sift the wheat from the chaff :)

[bull....]

amazon has arrived

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11894845

[bull....]

warehouse should ditch have of the s.it they sell and close all noel leaming and warehouse stationary stores and fold them all under one roof- save heaps on lease costs, staff costs, head office costs etc etc and then rebrand get rid of the warehouse brand its had its day. but i guess the new guy supported by the board will continue to waste millions on a no hope situation in its current state.
gee when the warehouse closes one day there be lots of mall spaces around.

some other smart people think alike as

Mega-retailer Super Retail Group Ltd (ASX: SUL) (http://www.fool.com.au/company/Super+Retail+Group+Ltd/?ticker=ASX-SUL) announced this morning that it was changing the face of its sports retailing businesses, Amart and Rebel Sports and combining the brands into one format.

http://www.fool.com.au/2017/07/25/super-retail-group-ditches-amart-to-fight-amazon/

[macduffy]

Not really a parallel case. Super Retail are combining two sports retailing businesses, not exiting the category. I agree though that WHS should be taking a hard look at those businesses that aren't sufficiently profitable with a view to sale or closure. Sale of the finance business indicates that they are doing just that.

Disc: Not holding.

[nocomment]

really wondering if i shld bail on WHS ... theyre almost at what i bought them for and i wonder if the jump in price was just hot air around the news that theyre actually doing something to reel in the decline, but ultimately its not going to do anything amazing for the business

[Topagent]

So this may already be news but warehouse stationary is getting absorbed into the warehouse. They expect this to be complete by early next year.

[JeremyALD]

really wondering if i shld bail on WHS ... theyre almost at what i bought them for and i wonder if the jump in price was just hot air around the news that theyre actually doing something to reel in the decline, but ultimately its not going to do anything amazing for the business

Personally there seems to be little upside to holding. Yes it may rise a little bit, but just sustaining the level of NPAT for the future is going to be hard, yet alone growing the business. You also have to wonder if they can sustain dividends at current level.

[Beagle]

really wondering if i shld bail on WHS ... theyre almost at what i bought them for and i wonder if the jump in price was just hot air around the news that theyre actually doing something to reel in the decline, but ultimately its not going to do anything amazing for the business

What he said below, I agree with.


Personally there seems to be little upside to holding. Yes it may rise a little bit, but just sustaining the level of NPAT for the future is going to be hard, yet alone growing the business. You also have to wonder if they can sustain dividends at current level.

Briscoes would be my preferred choice in this sector or HLG for dividend hounds. I don't rate WHS at all and still believe at a fundamental level they're worth no more than $1.70 as articulated in recent posts. Brokers still have them on a 2018 EPS of 19 cps and I still believe there's an awful lot of risk around that number to the downside.

[bull....]

So this may already be news but warehouse stationary is getting absorbed into the warehouse. They expect this to be complete by early next year.

Havnt seen an announment is this confidential info you suggest?

[Topagent]

Hi I'm new to the forum sorry hopefully not breaking rules if i'm allowed i can divulge where the source is from.

[bull....]

Hi I'm new to the forum sorry hopefully not breaking rules if i'm allowed i can divulge where the source is from.

Be a good move save lots of money , can even picture the red sheds cut in half with warehouse red one half , warehouse blue other half and probably better to keep noel as stand alone

[winner69]

Havnt seen an announment is this confidential info you suggest?

I thought they mentioned such initiatives in recent presentations

Wasn't concentrating too much but I got impression where it makes sense and as stationary leases come up for renewal or something like that

[kiwitrev]

I thought they mentioned such initiatives in recent presentations

Wasn't concentrating too much but I got impression where it makes sense and as stationary leases come up for renewal or something like that

You right Winner this is old news covered in previous news release but no detail or specifics

[Snoopy]

So this may already be news but warehouse stationary is getting absorbed into the warehouse. They expect this to be complete by early next year.


My impression behind this historic announcement was that it was the back offices of the red and blue sheds that were being combined. I don't think that it is envisaged that the red and blue sheds will morph into a brand of purple sheds at street level.

SNOOPY

[Topagent]

I think you my find that they are going to absorb into the one red shed and fairly quickly by all accounts. Planning has already begun.

[Snoopy]

I think you my find that they are going to absorb into the one red shed and fairly quickly by all accounts. Planning has already begun.


It is funny, but I had an impression that the main reason for the existence of the Blue Sheds at their birth was to move into the space vacated by the expanding (at the time) Red Sheds, by occupying what would otherwise be a vacant building with associated 'dead rent' obligations for the Warehouse Group. I guess if these Blue Shed leases are finally coming to an end, so does the reason for a separate Blue Shed to exist? Roll on the 'Purple Shed'.

SNOOPY

PS Always do my bulk photcopying at the Blue Sheds. Good quality equipment producing good copy at a good price.

[value_investor]

I always wondered how the stationary side does non back to school months. It always seems pretty dead in there except for the printing section of the business. Seems very inconvenient at the present time that the two are split up. Why do I need to go somewhere separate just for stationary?

Anyways, I went to a proper Warehouse for the first time in perhaps a year just recently. I got in, there was a massive sale rack as soon as I walked in, with a bunch of bargain bins of $2 and $5 items. A lot of it looking like damaged stock that was probably there to recoup cost. I just needed some socks but the store wasn't as well lit as a K-Mart is, nor was it busy. A lot of tired looking aisles, and tired looking shop assistants who didn't want to help. I got my socks, went to a self checkout and realised there wasn't one. Just a lot of old fashioned checkouts (too many) with a bunch of staff not looking busy.

Yikes, not the shopping experience I hoped for or remember. Disc: not a holder.

[nocomment]

Personally there seems to be little upside to holding. Yes it may rise a little bit, but just sustaining the level of NPAT for the future is going to be hard, yet alone growing the business. You also have to wonder if they can sustain dividends at current level.

good advice ... glad to be out :) maybe if they successfully restructure might reconsider

[bull....]

good advice ... glad to be out :) maybe if they successfully restructure might reconsider

they better hurry the share price is plummeting again

[ratkin]

Was in Warehouse barrington the other day at around 9.30am
checkout assistant was bored, said I was only the third customer through her till.

Ten years ago that place was heaving with people now it like a ghost shop most the time.

Problem is their customers are exactly the sort of people who are now buying all their tat from ali baba

[Beagle]

Mrs Beagle does all the buying for the grandkids and tells me K Mart is the new Wharehouse with far better products, better prices and a much more agreeable shopping experience overall. SP coming back down to earth with the realization that's a very long hard road to hoe to try and reinvigorate a tired old and very mature brand trading on a PE that's hardly cheap considering their recent track record. My valuation $1.70.

[winner69]

Mrs Beagle does all the buying for the grandkids and tells me K Mart is the new Wharehouse with far better products, better prices and a much more agreeable shopping experience overall. SP coming back down to earth with the realization that's a very long hard road to hoe to try and reinvigorate a tired old and very mature brand trading on a PE that's hardly cheap considering their recent track record. My valuation $1.70.

But would you be buying at $1.70?

[Beagle]

But would you be buying at $1.70?

A valuation only and I would only buy if I thought they had a new cohesive plan to reinvigorate the brand and drive profit growth going forward. The chances of this happening look slim to me. I think its highly likely this stock maintains its long term structural decline. As noted by other posters above, one of the key issues is staff morale and attitude. They have generally seemed disinterested and unhelpful on the very rare occasion I've stepped inside a red shed. Pretty much along the lines of Jetstar staff, they seem to exude the attitude of I'd really rather not be here but would prefer to be working for a better quality company. Go into a Briscoes, Rebel sports, K Mart or Farmers store and there's simply a better attitude, better product, better environment, just better all round and when you take into account the continuing proliferation of product online and the large store expensive lease footprint of WHS I don't think the Warehouse brand is fixable. Sure they can reintegrate Warehouse stationery which is a good idea but its not a game changer.

How do you see it playing out long term Winner ?

[winner69]

Ad during News on One - Warehouse selling a CD of Maria Dallas greatest hits. Not that cheap these ads at this time of the day.

Ad probably mostly paid for by the recording company ....but jeez brings home what The Warehouse really is these days .....hmmm



Maria Dallas probably before Beagles time ...but Percy probably enjoyed Tumblin' Down

[stoploss]

What's a CD ?

[percy]

What's a CD ?
1966.Vinyl records .!!!
I really do feel old at times.
My first year at work.
Big fan of The Beatles,rather than Maria Dallas..
Big spill on my bike, witnessed by all the Hutchinson Motors mechanics,one of whom blew up some poor clients car,leaving oil on the road ,which because it had starting rainning I did not see.They all cheered.!
Two years before I brought my first shares in M.O'Brien Footwear.Lesson learnt, never buy anything connected with shoes.
Only just still a virgin.!

[cyclist]

What's a CD ?

A way of supporting an artist you love without being beholden to Google, Microsoft, Apple, Spotify et al for the rest of your living days?

[winner69]

A way of supporting an artist you love without being beholden to Google, Microsoft, Apple, Spotify et al for the rest of your living days?

....but I have no cd player anymore ....or a laptop with such a drive

Still have a turntable for the vinyl though

[Baa_Baa]

A way of supporting an artist you love without being beholden to Google, Microsoft, Apple, Spotify et al for the rest of your living days?

Lol, nice one, like choose a media and distribution channel that has a worldwide market or choose a media that wins 1 in 1000 passers-by while busking on the Main Street.

[percy]

Lol, nice one, like choose a media and distribution channel that has a worldwide market or choose a media that wins 1 in 1000 passers-by while busking on the Main Street.

May not be busking on Main Street, but two young NZders started their musical careers, busking on the streets of Berlin.
They are known as "Charity Children." Can been seen on You Tube.

[bull....]

under $2 probably go much lower if you follow wall st opinion on department stores

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/15/investing/retail-stocks-amazon-macys-jcpenney/index.html

[winner69]

under $2 probably go much lower if you follow wall st opinion on department stores

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/15/investing/retail-stocks-amazon-macys-jcpenney/index.html

Myer an ongoing disaster in Australia ......share price now 70 when IPOd over 400 which is only a reflection of company / sector performance

Bit more upmarket than Warehouse but a department store nonetheless

[winner69]

Full year results out on Friday

We know the bottom line will be a shocker. Even normalised Operating Earnings won't be that good.

However as the benefits from centralised services fully start to flow through and the ongoing execution of Nick's strategic plans brings further good results F18 will be a much better year.

Current share price 2 bucks odd could e see as a bargain price this time next year.

No worries. That Nick is a pretty clever dude and will see shareholders right.

[Ogg]

Rise in online shopping pushes world’s largest toy retailer into bankruptcy.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41316205

[couta1]

Noel Leeming the jewel in the crown of the warehouse group, dividend for the year remains at 16c, that should keep the punters happy aye.

[winner69]

Beat guidance

Of all the profit numbers given (takes your pick) this is the most relevant - Adjusted Net Profit After Tax from continuing operations represented $68.2M, a reduction of 1.4% compared $69.2M in FY16. (Takes out Financial Services)

Have to be impressed - Nick has the ship on the right tack - all good for the future

No worries

[bull....]

its a terrible result , even if they say they beat revised downward revision lol

they got problems at toperdo 7
warehouse stationary flat at best
warehouse falling , revenues only maintained by reducing margins
div in decline
more costs next yr for improving the business - say that nearly every yr

good parts though

noel lemming
store within a store - mentioned this a way back makes big sense if there trial works saves tons of money in the long run right thru the operating model

[couta1]

Hey bull your wrong about divvy in decline, stays at 16c for the year, same as last couple of years, eps in decline however.

[benjitara]

It's been a dog for a few years now. Time for management to knock on Briscoes door and ask them how they do it I think..

[Beagle]

its a terrible result , even if they say they beat revised downward revision lol

they got problems at toperdo 7
warehouse stationary flat at best
warehouse falling , revenues only maintained by reducing margins
div in decline
more costs next yr for improving the business - say that nearly every yr

good parts though

noel lemming
store within a store - mentioned this a way back makes big sense if there trial works saves tons of money in the long run right thru the operating model
Help me out here please mate, (time poor today). So if they can show a Noel Leeming store and a Warehouse stationary store within a store works they could save a TON of overhead going forward and there might be some bark left in this old dog ?

[LAC]

Glad that they cut the financial services but that result is terrible especially after offsetting that with the sale of New Market. Tough times for WHS. EPS decline.....I dont like it, lets see the markets reaction this morning.

[bull....]

Help me out here please mate, (time poor today). So if they can show a Noel Leeming store and a Warehouse stationary store within a store works they could save a TON of overhead going forward and there might be some bark left in this old dog ?

its warehouse stationary within a warehouse , noel leaming is standalone , i have mentioned on this thread long ago the savings to be made from doing this

[samjaynz]

This concept has already been used on a smaller scale within the group. The best example I can think of (from personal experience working there) being Torpedo7.

In Auckland there are two T7 stores that have No.1 Fitness within the store. The Albany one has been around for a while, and after the Penrose No.1 Fitness store closed it moved to be inside the Mt. Wellington T7 Store. It is my personal opinion that the Chch No.1 store will move into the Tower Junction T7 in due course as well. Not everything that was in a standalone N1F store is stocked, only the top selling SKUs (so you can get the more obscure stuff online or on-order).

Within No.1 Fitness stores there has also been a push to get Shotgun Supplements represented better, with greater product depth etc. So a "store within a store within a store".

The push towards this is not a surprise to anyone who has worked in any sort of "back office" role within the group in the last couple of years. I believe WHS' ultimate goal is to have all their brands represented under one roof, so that you can walk into a big red shed and shop for your cheap tat from the Warehouse section, then get outdoors gear from T7, electronics from Noels etc. The smaller brands will just have their top products represented.

[couta1]

Glad that they cut the financial services but that result is terrible especially after offsetting that with the sale of New Market. Tough times for WHS. EPS decline.....I dont like it, lets see the markets reaction this morning. I reckon the market has already priced in a worst case scenario so status quo I'd say.

[bull....]

This concept has already been used on a smaller scale within the group. The best example I can think of (from personal experience working there) being Torpedo7.

In Auckland there are two T7 stores that have No.1 Fitness within the store. The Albany one has been around for a while, and after the Penrose No.1 Fitness store closed it moved to be inside the Mt. Wellington T7 Store. It is my personal opinion that the Chch No.1 store will move into the Tower Junction T7 in due course as well. Not everything that was in a standalone N1F store is stocked, only the top selling SKUs (so you can get the more obscure stuff online or on-order).

Within No.1 Fitness stores there has also been a push to get Shotgun Supplements represented better, with greater product depth etc. So a "store within a store within a store".

The push towards this is not a surprise to anyone who has worked in any sort of "back office" role within the group in the last couple of years. I believe WHS' ultimate goal is to have all their brands represented under one roof, so that you can walk into a big red shed and shop for your cheap tat from the Warehouse section, then get outdoors gear from T7, electronics from Noels etc. The smaller brands will just have their top products represented.

no1 within torpedo 7 doesnt work that well i reckon , when you buy gym gear you like to try before buy esp exercise equipment , very limited options on display in store , have talked to people who have brought no1 on line only to receive and then relise it wasnt fit for purpose.

warehouse within warehouse is different proposition

[samjaynz]

no1 within torpedo 7 doesnt work that well i reckon , when you buy gym gear you like to try before buy esp exercise equipment , very limited options on display in store , have talked to people who have brought no1 on line only to receive and then relise it wasnt fit for purpose.

warehouse within warehouse is different proposition

Haha why does your line "wasn't fit for purpose" sound so familiar to me ...

I also agree that N1 within T7 doesn't work well. The hope was - I believe - that people into outdoors lifestyle pursuits would also be swayed by home gym equipment. However, this really isn't the case.

I always believed that N1 would have been better served chasing the light commercial market (office gyms, hotel gyms, PT businesses etc). Home fitness is on a decline because gyms are so cheap - you can't finance a treadmill + basic weights setup for less than you can get a 24hr gym membership.

[bull....]

Haha why does your line "wasn't fit for purpose" sound so familiar to me ...

I also agree that N1 within T7 doesn't work well. The hope was - I believe - that people into outdoors lifestyle pursuits would also be swayed by home gym equipment. However, this really isn't the case.

I always believed that N1 would have been better served chasing the light commercial market (office gyms, hotel gyms, PT businesses etc). Home fitness is on a decline because gyms are so cheap - you can't finance a treadmill + basic weights setup for less than you can get a 24hr gym membership.

no1 would have to substantially upgrade the quality of there equipment to go for the big end of town, there current range is aimed at the same market as the warehouse - brought a cage and lat attachment a while back from no 1 and its not bad for the money i paid but this isnt a reflection on overall quality some of there stuff is garbage so need to do your homework.

elite fitness is middle to upper end of market , no 1 bottom to middle

agree gym membership cheaper than buying top quality equipment

[samjaynz]

no1 would have to substantially upgrade the quality of there equipment to go for the big end of town, there current range is aimed at the same market as the warehouse - brought a cage and lat attachment a while back from no 1 and its not bad for the money i paid but this isnt a reflection on overall quality some of there stuff is garbage so need to do your homework.

elite fitness is middle to upper end of market , no 1 bottom to middle

agree gym membership cheaper than buying top quality equipment

Agreed - I was involved with No.1 for some time and most of the equipment we had was squarely aimed at the "infrequent-moderate use" home market (people who buy a treadmill thinking they'll use it every day, after 3 months it's gathering dust etc).

Unfortunately for them, this is the exact market that is in decline.

But with regards to WHS as a whole, N1 hardly registers in terms of importance anyway. I am interested to see where WHS heads over time - it does feel a bit of a dinosaur, but they have the big brand recognition and presence.

[Beagle]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/97058952/the-warehouse-profit-plunges-62m-on-last-year?utm_source=ST&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Update+for+Saturday+23 +September+2017

[Ogg]

Got this email this morning.

Looks like they're not doing the traditional sales model anymore. Going to be low prices "every day" instead.

9195

https://i.imgur.com/aAqxWJC.jpg

[BlackPeter]

Got this email this morning.

Looks like they're not doing the traditional sales model anymore. Going to be low prices "every day" instead.

9195

https://i.imgur.com/aAqxWJC.jpg

Certainly a strategy we should support. Doubt however that it goes down well in NZ's "sale"-driven culture ... lets see.

[sb9]

Got this email this morning.

Looks like they're not doing the traditional sales model anymore. Going to be low prices "every day" instead.

9195

https://i.imgur.com/aAqxWJC.jpg

Works very well with Kmart business and its about time warehouse did that, so that people can go anytime and get lower price rather than mark it up hugely and have a sale every now and then.

[Fatboyj]

How's 1-day faring in the Warehouse family of companies? I get a lot of spam from them and only now and then see a good deal. $5 min shipping on a $10 item doesn't make sense, they got to get that sorted.

[Ogg]

How's 1-day faring in the Warehouse family of companies? I get a lot of spam from them and only now and then see a good deal. $5 min shipping on a $10 item doesn't make sense, they got to get that sorted.

Not sure about 1-day but the Warehouse has brought back the "Red Daily Deals" for the Christmas shopping period coming up. Got an email a few days ago saying it was back.

I didn't know it was gone to be honest. Most of the deals are crap anyway.

[Ogg]

New Warehouse ad on TV. This looks like a major strategy change. Gone are the old days where there's a sale every other day.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8yyDfBSUcU

It's similar to when "Big Save" changed their marketing at the beginning of the year from a "discount" strategy to more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf7x2_nLjBk

There's defiantly a major shift happening in retail at the moment.

[Jay]

Mitre 10 Meaga do the same (or did) don't have sales just "low prices every day" or something along those lines, then they started having "Bathroom events" ... events etc etc, a sale by another name

Disc - Don't hold - did once upon a time

[artemis]

How's 1-day faring in the Warehouse family of companies? I get a lot of spam from them and only now and then see a good deal. $5 min shipping on a $10 item doesn't make sense, they got to get that sorted.

I'm taking part in a 2 month trial at the mo - $12 unlimited shipping from Warehouse red and blue, Noel Leeming, Torpedo7. Some restrictions, eg no rural. Expect they are seeing if Amazon Prime would work here.

I'm sorting out a couple of Christmas pressies from blue - nice box with a bunch of stationery items in it. Plus either red or blue often have Sistema half price. I have bought several utility trays at $5 - perfect for bathroom cupboards, you know the ones under the basin where things at the back have been outa sight outa mind for years. Not any more.

[Fatboyj]

And just got another email from giving this offer -
1-day.co.nz
Save $10 when you spend $30!
26 September - 22 October 2017
Online only. Shop at www.1-day.co.nz (http://www.1-day.co.nz/) and save $10 when you spend $30 using your Warehouse Money credit card

[artemis]

This article is from the US but gives an insight into bricks and mortar chains. Not pretty.

https://blog.cheapism.com/major-retailers-closing-stores-18094/

[carrom74]

Noel Lemming is certainly the jewel in the crown for WHS... It was pumping business at the ASB Showgrounds this week... Spent about 30 min just on the checkout. Great deals and good crowd.

[Ogg]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11932574

Captain lowering the life boat for himself?

[bull....]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11932574

Captain lowering the life boat for himself?

deserves a break

[bull....]

yuk now revenue in decline :scared: but they say its temporary ,,,, but isnt amazon open soon ?

[winner69]

yuk now revenue in decline :scared: but they say its temporary ,,,, but isnt amazon open soon ?

Pretty terrible sales report eh

They struggle no matter what they do eh


Probably Mr Tindal while on holiday thinking how he can cash up his holding before it gets much less valuable.

[Beagle]

I can't believe it but I am going into bat for this company, (not so far as to buy the shares though) at least at this stage anyway.
I actually think their recent advertising campaign of every day low prices is a very good one with nice bright cheerful and creative advertisements and its about as sensible a strategy as I think they can muster going forward. Hits the nail very sweetly on the head for their target market in my opinion and the exit from the finance business also made good common sense. Noel Leeming continues to be a star and is an excellent brand in my opinion.

At the right price which is still quite some way south of here I feel, I might be tempted to stick a paw up for some.

[value_investor]

I would stay away from this one. Flailing revenues will continue into the future with or without Amazon in NZ and the growth of platforms such as Fishpond and Mightyape really sticks in the knife into it. Lets not forget K-Mart.

Don't like the language of management in the releases. They seldom are honest about their downfalls and have given very poor reasoning on reducing sales numbers. I don't see how a systems integration reduces sales for Warehouse Stationary by 7.2%..

Also the strategy presentation makes me a little bit queasy. "New rules of retail" just makes me realise that maybe WHS has seen the light finally on what is actually going on in their space now in 2017 relating to the online space and margins and not pretending about what they wish it was, or how they have been operating up to this point. A 105 page bloated slide presentation on it is actually a bit ironic.

Worked in the retail space a few years ago and I'm sure a few of the dinosaurs from my time will still be spurting about what the consumer wants or how they shop forgetting this is not the mid 2000s. I distinctly remember being told in the early part of this decade about internet shopping being a 'complement' and a 'side product'..

[Beagle]

http://www.4-traders.com/WAREHOUSE-GROUP-LTD-6491364/consensus/

Has been subject to a number of repeated analyst downgrades, previous to this most recent announcement they saw fair value at $2.08.
Its difficult to imagine that there won't be another round of analyst downgrades coming after this latest announcement.
Risk does indeed appear to be for ongoing downside and its hard to form any other impression than that the tide continues to go out for this company and with their very high cost extensive network of leased stores, lower sales and compressed margins with high overheads leaves plenty of potential to inflict more pain on investors.
The trend with this one is definitely not your friend. There's better opportunities for those that like retail, Briscoes and HLG have a nice niche in my opinion.

[biker]

Want to buy an item worth about $500
Need to talk to someone about the item.
Noel Leeming won't answer their phones.
Two other retailers have the item.
Going elsewhere.
Retail is about customer service and Noel Leeming ain't got it.

[bull....]

Want to buy an item worth about $500
Need to talk to someone about the item.
Noel Leeming won't answer their phones.
Two other retailers have the item.
Going elsewhere.
Retail is about customer service and Noel Leeming ain't got it.

thats terrible, dont worry amazon is said to be opening in time for xmas , there big wigs were spotted in melbourne last week preparing

[Beagle]

Want to buy an item worth about $500
Need to talk to someone about the item.
Noel Leeming won't answer their phones.
Two other retailers have the item.
Going elsewhere.
Retail is about customer service and Noel Leeming ain't got it.

And you know this applies right across the Noel Leeming chain of stores because you tried ringing one store...

[winner69]

And you know this applies right across the Noel Leeming chain of stores because you tried ringing one store...

An old timer once told me “Our business is only as good as our worst employee”

Never forgot that and repeated it many times ...esp to the manager of that worst employee

[Fatboyj]

On the opposite side to this NL price matched PB P10 price of $399 for a mate earlier today.

And I never stick to one branch of any retailer. HN Moorehouse are Nazis. Hornby branch quite superb.

[biker]

And you know this applies right across the Noel Leeming chain of stores because you tried ringing one store...

No. They are very protective of the individual store numbers. It is all done through a centralised 0800 number, but thanks for your sarcasm.

[Longhaul]

No. They are very protective of the individual store numbers. It is all done through a centralised 0800 number, but thanks for your sarcasm.

Yeah I got the run around with them too. All calls go through a call centre. Got there in the end but it took longer than I would expect.

[Beagle]

No. They are very protective of the individual store numbers. It is all done through a centralised 0800 number, but thanks for your sarcasm.

I have found they will beat anyone else on price plus add flybuys, and our local store manager gives us exceptional service. He knows I'll shop around so gives me the best price in the market whenever we buy a major appliance which saves me plenty of time. Their is some value in getting to know your local manager in my opinion. On top of that their weekly e.mail deals can offer some exceptional opportunities. Our local store is convenient, well presented and has a very good range. I couldn't be more satisfied. Each to their own...

[winner69]

I have found they will beat anyone else on price plus add flybuys, and our local store manager gives us exceptional service. He knows I'll shop around so gives me the best price in the market whenever we buy a major appliance which saves me plenty of time. Their is some value in getting to know your local manager in my opinion. On top of that their weekly e.mail deals can offer some exceptional opportunities. Our local store is convenient, well presented and has a very good range. I couldn't be more satisfied. Each to their own...

Good for but that pricing for you good for shareholders?

[Hawkeye]

Good for but that pricing for you good for shareholders?

They are hardly going to cut their own throat to retain beagle as a customer, most stores are willing to slice a bit off when people want to buy the more expensive items. In this case the store manager reduces the price to get the sale and not have a competitor get it. It is standard practice, even if beagle gets a slightly larger discount, the sales and marketing team will have allowed for it. They will have a price they want to see it go for, they will add a portion to it that they can drop for the likes of the cash buyer or the bargain hunting beagles out there. But some people willnot ask for a discount so it all balances out.

[Balance]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/310894/270422.pdf

Says it all really :

"We have engaged McKinsey to assist with implementation of strategy"

[winner69]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/310894/270422.pdf

Says it all really :

"We have engaged McKinsey to assist with implementation of strategy"

The decline in our market value is a serious concern

[Beagle]

Bargain hunting beagle will be at it again this evening...need a new microwave the old one is dead. Noel Leeming have some super black Friday specials on so does the warehouse.

[percy]

I have to take the granddaughter to Harvey Norman to buy the camera she wants for Xmas.
If she is like her mother it will cost me a fortune to save a few dollars.

[winner69]

I have to take the granddaughter to Harvey Norman to buy the camera she wants for Xmas.
If she is like her mother it will cost me a fortune to save a few dollars.

I’ve hinted for a Nikon D850

At 6 grand odd I think I’ll be buying it myself

[percy]

I’ve hinted for a Nikon D850

At 6 grand odd I think I’ll be buying it myself

I got off lightly,only $550 with extended warrantee and something else [slim card?].Was reduced from $850.??..lol.
Thought for a moment it was the $2495 one she was looking at.

W69 you do have rather expensive taste?

[kiwico]

Bargain hunting beagle will be at it again this evening...need a new microwave the old one is dead. Noel Leeming have some super black Friday specials on so does the warehouse.

There was a queue outside the local Warehouse this morning waiting for it to open up at 8am, not something I've seen before. I bought a TV that was $100 cheaper than NL's advertised Black Friday special plus a further 5% off thanks to the warehouse money credit card. Hope you find similar bargains.

[winner69]

I got off lightly,only $550 with extended warrantee and something else [slim card?].Was reduced from $850.??..lol.
Thought for a moment it was the $2495 one she was looking at.

W69 you do have rather expensive taste?

Prob a SD card .....stores the images. A bit like a tiny floppy disc of olden days

That camera I want is a ‘cheap’ one but I deserve an updated one I reckon (Doesn’t seem any limit as to how much you can spend) and that’s without any lenses the existing ones will do until I lust after something new. A decent ‘cheap’ zoom lens is just under a grand. Not as bad as one acquaintance who has about 129 grand of gear.

I lead a simple life and no harm in treating yourself every now and again ....and it’s my new retirement hobby.

Hope your granddaughter enjoys her photography - quite rewarding hobby.

[Beagle]

There was a queue outside the local Warehouse this morning waiting for it to open up at 8am, not something I've seen before. I bought a TV that was $100 cheaper than NL's advertised Black Friday special plus a further 5% off thanks to the warehouse money credit card. Hope you find similar bargains.

Sounds good. Went down to my local mall on Friday evening to engage in some retail therapy and couldn't get a park for love nor money.

[value_investor]

Its a tough market out there at the moment for WHS. The traditional Warehouse brand is being competed away from K-Mart, and then online from the likes of Fishpond and Mightyape. The latter of which I use as my no.1 pick now for buying online, most things end up there the next day. I feel as though this will slowly become the norm in NZ if not already.

Noel Leeming is for me the crown jewel of all the companies under the umbrella, but I can't help but think the two brands may be cannibalising themselves. Either way, crucial holiday season for them on all fronts. The retail game is hard, good luck to all parties involved!

disc: I don't invest in retail

[couta1]

I don't invest in retail either, except HLG, where I have made a real pig of myself.

[bull....]

amazon is live today in australia

[percy]

Went into Barrington store last night at about 7pm to buy a bedside clock.
Managed to find the one I wanted OK.
Then looked at the large line of people wanting to be served at the one checkout,and put the clock back on the shelf.
Hopeless.

[BlackPeter]

Hmm - is there something wrong with my eyes or did WHS really manage to break through the MA 100 and now touching the MA 200?

Retail must be doing really well these days if the tide manages to even lift wrecked vessels like that - or is anything changing with the WHS?

Actually - been there recently (looking for some outdoor furniture) and couldn't make out a difference - some stuff is really low quality and cheap as, and other stuff, which looks better, is as expensive as everywhere else.

So - not sure, whether this is just a ripple or whether the tide is turning ... but whatever it is - there are probably much better places to park once money ;);

[tim23]

I did see an outdoor setting identical (slightly smaller table but same chairs) to one I bought at Mitre 10 but price was way sharper good quality wooden blend.

[value_investor]

Hmm - is there something wrong with my eyes or did WHS really manage to break through the MA 100 and now touching the MA 200?

Retail must be doing really well these days if the tide manages to even lift wrecked vessels like that - or is anything changing with the WHS?

Actually - been there recently (looking for some outdoor furniture) and couldn't make out a difference - some stuff is really low quality and cheap as, and other stuff, which looks better, is as expensive as everywhere else.

So - not sure, whether this is just a ripple or whether the tide is turning ... but whatever it is - there are probably much better places to park once money ;);

I actually came to a similar conclusion looking into it. On surface value, the valuation and dividend is great. Price has looked to stablise from the downtrend, and the dividend yield is very high.

However, the changes from the financial services business exit has left a lot of uncertainty to the point where the management haven't issued a guidance out. Which to me is very worrying. This is probably why they haven't issued anything regarding profit like they did last year around the holiday season (when they downgraded it).

Add in the fact that sales have stayed the same or gone down and the fact that the dividend is really being issued artificially on the back of the Newmarket asset sale in FY17. I'm not sure that they will be able to manage it long term given the pressures in their new strategy or having "everyday lower prices". Looking at the last sales update, I just don't see it.

Then I thought hang on, this holiday season I bought all my gifts online and not once did I use The Warehouse, majority of the time I was using Mightyape. I haven't been inside any of their stores apart from Noel Leeming in the past 6 months. Also I've started buying from Aliexpress and I know I'm not the only one. Even K-Mart these days are so well presented and modernised.

Based on probabilities, there's just too much uncertainty for me to put my money in this one. I'm not even a avid customer so its hard to associate with it. Like you said there are better places to have it at the moment. But hey, if anyone is brave enough and you can see it coming back with a vengeance then by all means. I'm not touching any retail stocks in 2018.

[JeremyALD]

Hmm - is there something wrong with my eyes or did WHS really manage to break through the MA 100 and now touching the MA 200?

Retail must be doing really well these days if the tide manages to even lift wrecked vessels like that - or is anything changing with the WHS?

Actually - been there recently (looking for some outdoor furniture) and couldn't make out a difference - some stuff is really low quality and cheap as, and other stuff, which looks better, is as expensive as everywhere else.

So - not sure, whether this is just a ripple or whether the tide is turning ... but whatever it is - there are probably much better places to park once money ;);

Still a far cry from where it was a year ago. It seems department stores had a very good Xmas from Paymark information (not sure if WHS would be considered department), however if they didn't increase sales YOY this Xmas it would be a worry.

[hardt]

Still a far cry from where it was a year ago. It seems department stores had a very good Xmas from Paymark information (not sure if WHS would be considered department), however if they didn't increase sales YOY this Xmas it would be a worry.

Went into a big red yesterday and found the product mix is vastly different from what I remember.

Looks like they are desperately changing their image to a more friendly briscoes-esque establishment.. which seems to be the only way they will get slightly higher margin goods out the doors.

Selling the cheapest products you can find with razor thin margins will inevitably lead to a far greater impact of the major decline in foot traffic which is taking over retail globally... not long before it gets here ( other than behind, why would NZ be different )

Staying far away from non exclusive brick and mortar retailers for now... not to say there isn't money in it shorter term.

[winner69]

Hmm - is there something wrong with my eyes or did WHS really manage to break through the MA 100 and now touching the MA 200?
;

Spose one could now say that about $2.00/$210 is about as low it will go.

Amazing that over the last 200 trading days the WHS share price has averaged $2.10 odd. That’s the best part of a year.

Prob just confirms that buying in a downtrend and/or holding and/or hoping that Nick’s strategy is going to work isn’t the best investment plan

Is the last week the usual holiday rise or some actual confidence in this stock

Hey BP ...might be a golden cross soon.

[BlackPeter]

Spose one could now say that about $2.00/$210 is about as low it will go.

Amazing that over the last 200 trading days the WHS share price has averaged $2.10 odd. That’s the best part of a year.

Prob just confirms that buying in a downtrend and/or holding and/or hoping that Nick’s strategy is going to work isn’t the best investment plan

Is the last week the usual holiday rise or some actual confidence in this stock

Hey BP ...might be a golden cross soon.

Which might be evidence that not all which shines is gold ;); But yes, technically we might get a golden cross. If you have the SP oscillating in a rather narrow channel (between $ 2 and $2.30) there are opportunities for plenty of golden and other crosses without a lot of fun!

[winner69]

Not so flash trading update but Nick says it’s all going to plan so no worries

The paragraph below says they have put about $8m (maybe more)aside for staff incentives (hopefully not just senior management but it does mention retaining global talent) ...


Our forecast for H1 Adjusted Net Profit from continuing operations for the Group is $32m-$35m, which is 22%-28% down on the comparative continuing operations performance last year. The result for the half includes a significant accrual for a redesigned incentive programme, intended to reward better than expected financial performance along with reinforcing specific behaviours necessary to execute the transformation. It recognises the need to retain staff and recruit top global talent through this rapid period of radical transition. If the second half year (H2) performance fails to deliver on our improved outlook, the accrual will be reversed to profit. If not for the accrual, our financial performance in H1 would be close to last year’s.

[Beagle]

Not so flash trading update but Nick says it’s all going to plan so no worries

The paragraph below says they have put about $8m (maybe more)aside for staff incentives (hopefully not just senior management but it does mention retaining global talent) ...


Our forecast for H1 Adjusted Net Profit from continuing operations for the Group is $32m-$35m, which is 22%-28% down on the comparative continuing operations performance last year. The result for the half includes a significant accrual for a redesigned incentive programme, intended to reward better than expected financial performance along with reinforcing specific behaviours necessary to execute the transformation. It recognises the need to retain staff and recruit top global talent through this rapid period of radical transition. If the second half year (H2) performance fails to deliver on our improved outlook, the accrual will be reversed to profit. If not for the accrual, our financial performance in H1 would be close to last year’s.

Financial engineering / management creating a bigger trough for themselves... at it's finest. They keep talking the talk that there is some hope they can stop the tide going out and now are designing multi million dollar incentive plans for senior management that will reward what could be "at best" mediocre financial performance. This is akin to saying if you can plug the leaks in the dam we'll give you a multi million dollar bonus, never mind whether the dam is catching more water or if there is systemic structural issues with the dam that will lead to its almost inevitable demise.

Just look at the long term trend in the SP...

[winner69]

Extracting the facts from all the good news that Nick goes on about

Red - Same Store Sales were down (2.8%) over the critical Christmas period compared to the Q1 rate of (4.0%). .....Not good - jeez that 2.8% is quite a decline over Christmas considering that Q1 was up 4%. Selling heaps more stuff but for less dollars overall ...hmmm

Stationery - we expect sales to be down approximately 6.5% at the first half (H1) . They were down 7.2% down at Q1 so the ship not sining as fast. However Nick did say after Q it is expected to return to normal trading levels as the business heads into the critical Christmas and Back to School periods. This not hap

NL / Torpedo - Noel Leeming continues to perform strongly. Likewise, Torpedo7 retail has been steadily improving during the year. --- Thats good but the saviour the group need. Interestingly and maybe telling is no indication of how strong performing strongly actually is


No wonder profits continue to decline ....but no worries Nick has it under contral

[winner69]

Financial engineering / management creating a bigger trough for themselves... at it's finest. They keep talking the talk that there is some hope they can stop the tide going out and now are designing multi million dollar incentive plans for senior management that will reward what could be "at best" mediocre financial performance. This is akin to saying if you can plug the leaks in the dam we'll give you a multi million dollar bonus, never mind whether the dam is catching more water or if there is systemic structural issues with the dam that will lead to its almost inevitable demise.

Just look at the long term trend in the SP...

On one hand they remain optimistic of success by making an accrual .....but on the other hand they have little confidence by saying they will write it back to profit if it don't work.

And Beagle the incentives not all about financial results .... it is also about rewarding specific behaviours

[Beagle]

Didn't paymark or whoever that electronic outfit is report record Christmas and Boxing day sales mate ? I know Rod Duke is reported as saying they had their best December in years.
Still...Nick knows best...that's why they're installing charging points at their warehouse stores to charge electric cars that their shopping demographic can't afford ?...go figure ?
That will be good in ten years time when electric vehicles are affordable enough for their customers to have them so I suppose you could argue that management are forward thinking...assuming the company survives another 10 years
Suppose I should try and give up my fascination with their super slow motion train wreck...

[winner69]

Didn't paymark or whoever that electronic outfit is report record Christmas and Boxing day sales mate ? I know Rod Duke is reported as saying they had their best December in years.
Still...Nick knows best...that's why they're installing charging points at their warehouse stores to charge electric cars that their shopping demographic can't afford ?...go figure ?
That will be good in ten years time when electric vehicles are affordable enough for their customers to have them so I suppose you could argue that management are forward thinking...assuming the company survives another 10 years
Suppose I should try and give up my fascination with their super slow motion train wreck...

You are on to it .....Red Sheds have EDLPEV as a strategy ...with free charging for life.

[Beagle]

I have found a solution with what to do with some of the old southland red sheds when they close them down
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/tiwai-waste-a-hot-potato-no-one-wants-to-hold/ar-BBIdrI3?li=AAaUOAg&ocid=spartandhp

Being a bit naughty suggesting they rationalize underperforming red shed braches but one thing I really like with another far more nimble retailer like HLG is they close down stores which don't work out. I got to wondering how they do that seeing as most landlords want a commitment to a multi year lease....I guess they must negotiate terms with progressive landlords only, saying something like basically we want to prove this location works over the first XYZ term before committing to a multi year lease ? Makes it tough for WHS who have sold a lot of their stores on a sale and long leaseback terms to ever be nimble or rationalize high lease costs doesn't it !

[JeremyALD]

Their strategy of EDLP does seem to be bearing some fruit, but again with the likes of Kmart, Amazon, Mighty Ape and simply, better retailers I struggle to see growth within the group. The days for huge and frankly ugly stores are getting behind us.

[winner69]

Like their use of the phrase ‘improving trend’

Wonder what means?

[percy]

I have found a solution with what to do with some of the old southland red sheds when they close them down
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/tiwai-waste-a-hot-potato-no-one-wants-to-hold/ar-BBIdrI3?li=AAaUOAg&ocid=spartandhp

Being a bit naughty suggesting they rationalize underperforming red shed braches but one thing I really like with another far more nimble retailer like HLG is they close down stores which don't work out. I got to wondering how they do that seeing as most landlords want a commitment to a multi year lease....I guess they must negotiate terms with progressive landlords only, saying something like basically we want to prove this location works over the first XYZ term before committing to a multi year lease ? Makes it tough for WHS who have sold a lot of their stores on a sale and long leaseback terms to ever be nimble or rationalize high lease costs doesn't it !

When leases end, or come up for renewal.

[Beagle]

Exactly Percy. http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/4b211522/warehouse-expects-first-half-earnings-to-fall-by-up-to-28.html
With all my years of investing I have to say this is a first for me. The first time I have ever heard of a company putting in place an incentive scheme to "encourage specific behaviors" that costs the company as much as 28% of net profit. Surely specific behaviors should just be part of their normal extremely well paid management performance ?
Surely this isn't management effectively saying let's milk this old cow for all its worth before it gets put out for pasture and as soon as milk production looks like its seriously tailing off we'll jump ship...or maybe that's exactly what it is ?

[percy]

Makes for very sad reading.
These people are finding swimming against the tide is a losing battle.
Back to school promotions by WHS,Whitcoulls,Pak'n Save, and Paper Plus are just a competition to see which one of them is the biggest fool.
Very difficult to tell one fool from another.?
A least "our" kids get cheap school stationery,except for those who have to buy via their school stationery shop..

[winner69]

Makes for very sad reading.
These people are finding swimming against the tide is a losing battle.
Back to school promotions by WHS,Whitcoulls,Pak'n Save, and Paper Plus are just a competition to see which one of them is the biggest fool.
Very difficult to tell one fool from another.?
A least "our" kids get cheap school stationery,except for those who have to buy via their school stationery shop..

Always a good time for small business to stock up on stationery as well with cheap cheap everything.

[Beagle]

It does indeed. The one's I feel most sad for are the long term smaller mum and pop shareholders who don't have the wherewithal, the TA ability or don't belong to ST or any other forum to see through the public relations corporate speak the company keeps trotting out and actually believe the PR spiel...hanging in there hoping it comes right...clinging on like a sick terrier to an old bone that long ago gave up all its nourishment.

No doubt our kids will ensure the grandchildren will make the most of their cheap stationary and enjoy it while it lasts. They should do shareholders a favor and float off Noel Leeming as a separate entity and return the capital.

[winner69]

Warehouse Group do sell about $3 billion of stuff a year and even these days make a profit $60m odd so not all that hopeless.

[peat]

My charting programme (which automatically detects shapes and patterns) suggest WHS is bullish by virtue of the channel in purple with target at purple square.
9398

Whereas my eyeballing tends to prefer the descending triangle scenario (bearish) as shown here:

9399

If that is correct woe betide the break of $2 !!


Team analysis back at the old office considered there was good residual value for aggregations - in other words takeovers would support price.

This thread's FA view and my TA view would appear to agree

Disclaimer: No position

[Beagle]

Warehouse Group do sell about $3 billion of stuff a year and even these days make a profit $60m odd so not all that hopeless.

I ran the ruler over it on a FA basis last year and arrived at $1.50 - $1.60 with the rather large caveat that one would have to believe that management could stop the tide going out.

[winner69]

Wonder what Foodstuffs are thinking about all the current carry ons ... hard sitting on a unrealised loss

And James Pascoe / Normans have been pretty quiet of late

Everybody froaen by the headlights it seems .....hopign Nick pulls it off

Nick left Sears in time eh

[winner69]

A billion bucks would buy them

Can Mr Tindall afford to take it private

Suppose it might have some strategic value for somebody and even PE could be interested in buying and asset stripping and making heaps before selling an iconic business back to the keen NZ public

[winner69]

They should do shareholders a favour and float off Noel Leeming as a separate entity and return the capital.

Bloody hell ....another Dick Smiths on the exchange

[MauroNZ]

This one has been an interesting learning as I've bought it in 2013 following Craigs IP when I was after a good dividend one. In four years went down about 80%. Still holding but unsure what path to follow. Worth it keep holding it? Worth better have 20% at least in cash?.

[Beagle]

I would concede they're playing their cards, (a systemically poor hand ?) as well as they can with this new everyday bargain thing. T.V. advertisements about everyday value are good quality, reasonably catchy and aimed squarely at the target demographic. K Mart with their better pricing and slightly more upmarket shopping experience must be a real thorn in WHS's side though and Briscoes aren't ever going to go away as a competitor either....then there's all the trend towards online buying.

One would suppose that they justify the most recent decline in sales stat's by saying they're repositioning the brand down into everyday value pricing, (quite why they ever abandoned that strategy in the first place I'll never know), and now they're justifying a significant profit decline under the auspices of further investment in brand development, (this seems like a real value creation strategy...for management), but whether shareholders ever see any benefit from it is quite another matter.

Maybe Nick can turn this slow motion train wreck into a super super slow motion train wreck, who knows... but its hard to see how they ever get traction into turning this around and growing profit again.

MauroNZ - Welcome to the forum. As you can see by today's posts I believe the long term prognosis is poor. On the other hand there are a couple of retailers that I believe are doing an outstanding job and their long term future looks sound. HLG, (I hold) would be my pick in this sector. Briscoes is also worth considering.
Briscoes has a less defendable position against the likes of Amazon as its easy to order almost anything Briscoes sells online. On the other hand HLG occupies a nice niche in the middle of the rag trade and I believe the vast majority of people prefer to visit a store before they purchase for my rule of the four F's.
They want to check in person the fit, the feel, the fashion and the fabric. Microwave ovens by way of example like Briscoes sell don't really need that sort of checking do they ? :) I therefore feel HLG has a sound future and a good defensible position in the retail market.

[Baa_Baa]

This one has been an interesting learning as I've bought it in 2013 following Craigs IP when I was after a good dividend one. In four years went down about 80%. Still holding but unsure what path to follow. Worth it keep holding it? Worth better have 20% at least in cash?.

That's a tough one, banking 80% capital losses or holding for the dividend and possibly more capital losses. How's the net position looking? I'd be asking your Craigs advisor why they kept you in a sustained capital losses share, and whether they ever admit errors of judgement and get their clients out before it's a basket case? Or do they think WHS is a recovery story? Then ask yourself about the rest of their advice.

[JeremyALD]

This one has been an interesting learning as I've bought it in 2013 following Craigs IP when I was after a good dividend one. In four years went down about 80%. Still holding but unsure what path to follow. Worth it keep holding it? Worth better have 20% at least in cash?.

I agree with Beagle. WHS is never going to be a growth company - there's so much transformation required and intense competition I just can't see it happening. They have a lot on their plate. Now that's not to say I don't see them paying sound dividends and lasting around, but the chances of the share price going up to anywhere near where it used to be in my opinion is very low.

Briscoes has an excellent track record (better than Hallensteins and definately WHS), however their growth seems to be slowing, especially with the housing market lagging. Personally I don't see Amazon as a big threat to them in the short term and at a PE of 12ish that would be the safest retail bet imo.

Hallensteins is a little more risky at the current SP but has a very strong record of being a brilliant dividend payer. They are performing extremely well at present and seem to have good growth opportunities in Australia. Currently its my largest capital position, but I think it's one I'll watch with a close eye over the next year.

Soooo imo you're better off in either companies than sticking around with WHS

DYOR

[winner69]

I get the impression Nick is not telling us the real story

This from yesterday - our forecast for H1 Adjusted Net Profit from continuing operations for the Group is $32m-$35m, which is 22%-28% down on the comparative continuing operations performance last year.

That implies H1 last year was about $39m odd. Actual reported number was $39.7m but this included a loss by Finance Division

In the AGM presentation Nick was proud of the slide that highlighted continuing businesses were doing quite well (like H2 was better than prior year). That slide showed continuing businesses NPAT (adjusted if course) for H1 to be $45.0m

So shouldn’t the $32m to $35m this year be compared to the touted $45m last year?

But when they reverse his bonus accrual in H2 the H2 result will be a boomer

Got me totally stuffed has Nick

Veritas love this continuing business crap as well