WHS - Warehouse Group

[percy]

On Easter Monday I ordered two pair of flannelette men's pyjamas from WHS, as The Farmers were out of stock.For brother in law.
Farmers were $44.95 a pair.
WHS were $16 a pair and delivery $5.Total $37.
Was advised they usually deliver in 5 working days,but at present they may take 10 working days.
Arrived late Friday afternoon.Good service WHS.

[ratkin]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121...s-out-of-stock (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121071479/coronavirus-customers-disappointed-by-noel-leeming-selling-items-out-of-stock)

Good for sales in the environment, but not a good look. Understand getting caught short on some products, but poor communication.




On Friday, after a 52 minute wait on the phone, I was promised that the "Escalation Team" would contact me within the day about my undelivered order. I have yet to hear back from them. Since then, I've emailed the company directors personally (with no response I might add) and have now made a complaint to the Commerce Commission. Needless to say, I will be selling my shares first thing Monday morning. The lack of communication is appalling, and I want no part in a company that treats its customers with such contempt.

Do you really expect a response from the company directors? In case you have not noticed there is worldwide lockdown going on, does it really matter if your willy warmer is a few days late?

[Baa_Baa]

While we’re bItching about WHS, ordered a HDMI cable (in stock) during lock down, five days later no show. Called, hadn’t even been packed. Cancelled order. Place same order with PB Tech that afternoon, arrived next day 8:30am! Stunning difference in service.

[Grimy]

Not that I've done it often, but on the odd occasion I've purchased on line with The Warehouse or Noel Leeming, or WH Stationery I've never had a problem and delivery has been as expected.
But yes, order something from PB Tech or Mighty Ape and sometimes it feels like the courier is pulling up at your door before you've had time to make a coffee after placing the order!

[waikare]

Do you really expect a response from the company directors? In case you have not noticed there is worldwide lockdown going on, does it really matter if your willy warmer is a few days late?

There has been occasions when I have a issue, with a company, and do not get the desired result from the Customer Support team member, I then email the CEO, outlining the problem. I have always had a response, not usually from the CEO, but from one of their senior staff members, and the issue is very quickly sorted.

[Sideshow Bob]

There has been occasions when I have a issue, with a company, and do not get the desired result from the Customer Support team member, I then email the CEO, outlining the problem. I have always had a response, not usually from the CEO, but from one of their senior staff members, and the issue is very quickly sorted.

Done that myself a few times. Guessed the email address of the CEO of one of the gentailers with my issue that staff were intransigent on, and got a response back within an hour.

Did the same with a courier company this week - had been banging my head against a wall for a week (admittedly over Easter) over a missing parcel but was sorted quick-smart after I emailed and got a refund too!

[samjaynz]

Are these the same pay cuts that were mooted the other day?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121239663/coronavirus-the-warehouse-asks-staff-to-take-10-to-20-pay-cuts-or-face-redundancy

[nztx]

Are these the same pay cuts that were mooted the other day?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121239663/coronavirus-the-warehouse-asks-staff-to-take-10-to-20-pay-cuts-or-face-redundancy


Look at the Huge gap between Wages & Subsidy received in that article !

That is Wages ONLY up to 100% as well and absolutely none of the other fixed overheads they will be incurring

This is good illustration of exactly what the Labor Beehive Simpletons have failed to comprehend..

This is a well established business -- imagine what is happening to other less well resourced SME's

[samjaynz]

Look at the Huge gap between Wages & Subsidy received in that article !

That is Wages ONLY up to 100% as well and absolutely none of the other fixed overheads they will be incurring

This is good illustration of exactly what the Labor Beehive Simpletons have failed to comprehend..

This is a well established business -- imagine what is happening to other less well resourced SME's

It's brutal for sure.

Through my work I'm in contact with a lot of SMEs (don't have any dealings with larger enterprise) and the damage is horrific across so many sectors, industries etc. Compounding it for some business owners is the fact that some employees are now refusing to return to work (these are jobs where home work not possible, e.g. dispatching from a warehouse).

I had to have a laugh though at someone today on a message board I frequent who was complaining that his employer was rude to him when he inquired why he wasn't getting the wage subsidy on top of his full pay. He literally thought it was a bonus for every employee. Scary these people can vote.

[nztx]

It's brutal for sure.

Through my work I'm in contact with a lot of SMEs (don't have any dealings with larger enterprise) and the damage is horrific across so many sectors, industries etc. Compounding it for some business owners is the fact that some employees are now refusing to return to work (these are jobs where home work not possible, e.g. dispatching from a warehouse).

I had to have a laugh though at someone today on a message board I frequent who was complaining that his employer was rude to him when he inquired why he wasn't getting the wage subsidy on top of his full pay. He literally thought it was a bonus for every employee. Scary these people can vote.


Yes -- have had that too - I'm told a casual employee for one company thought they would receive the full subsidy on top of their hours worked

[Balance]

Yes -- have had that too - I'm told a casual employee for one company thought they would receive the full subsidy on top of their hours worked

The Labour brigade.

[winner69]

Poor Warehouse

Deborah Russell would contend they weren’t strong enough pre-lockdown and should have been better capitalised in the first place.

[kiwico]

Deborah Russell would contend they weren’t strong enough pre-lockdown and should have been better capitalised in the first place.

And that they're only in business because she deems the minimum wage in NZ to be too low.

[nztx]

And that they're only in business because she deems the minimum wage in NZ to be too low.

Many may be left wondering exactly what sort of Dr's Degree Russell actually has .. after seeing her recent efforts hung out to dry ..

[winner69]

Many may be left wondering exactly what sort of Dr's Degree Russell actually has .. after seeing her recent efforts hung out to dry ..

BA Philosophy
BCom Accounting and Finance
PhD Philosophy

Your profile on labour website says -

Deborah is a tax expert, and she is a regular commentator on economic, social and political issues. She has worked in the private sector, including running her own small consulting company, and in the public sector, as well as lecturing at universities in Australia and New Zealand. Deborah’s doctoral thesis was on multiculturalism, looking at the ways that people from different ethnicities and countries can live alongside and with each other in thriving societies.

[JeffW]

Something doesn't add up in the stuff article though - If the gap between monthly labour costs and the subsidy received is $192m, and there's 12,000 staff in total, that means the monthly gap per person averages $16,000

[nztx]

BA Philosophy
BCom Accounting and Finance
PhD Philosophy

Your profile on labour website says -

Deborah is a tax expert, and she is a regular commentator on economic, social and political issues. She has worked in the private sector, including running her own small consulting company, and in the public sector, as well as lecturing at universities in Australia and New Zealand. Deborah’s doctoral thesis was on multiculturalism, looking at the ways that people from different ethnicities and countries can live alongside and with each other in thriving societies.

Labour should make her their next Leader then .. but then may be overqualified for the spot ...

[Balance]

BA Philosophy
BCom Accounting and Finance
PhD Philosophy


All brains and no common sense.

[Cadalac123]

All brains and no common sense.

The thing i've learnt about a lot of qualifications is they don't actually require the rigor or intelligence you think they would, nor do they translate to common sense at all most of the time.

[jonu]

All brains and no common sense.

I'm not so sure about the brains. The degree (pun intended) of seriousness of a doctorate in philosophy would largely depend on the university issuing it. The Humanities are all over the shop at the moment. Swamped in Gender Theory and the like ....hence her sexist views on jobs for the girls.

[winner69]

I'm not so sure about the brains. The degree (pun intended) of seriousness of a doctorate in philosophy would largely depend on the university issuing it. The Humanities are all over the shop at the moment. Swamped in Gender Theory and the like ....hence her sexist views on jobs for the girls.

PhD from Australian National University .....highly regarded

[Baa_Baa]

The thing i've learnt about a lot of qualifications is they don't actually require the rigor or intelligence you think they would, nor do they translate to common sense at all most of the time.

Common sense is not all that common.

[nztx]

Common sense is not all that common.


Almost anyone here if holed up at any of the Uni's for 10 years could have walked away with a list of
Tickets & an equally impressive Loan balance the length of their arm .. but most here are more sensible
& probably had far better & more productive things to do with their 10 years ...

[Sideshow Bob]

Almost anyone here if holed up at any of the Uni's for 10 years could have walked away with a list of
Tickets & an equally impressive Loan balance the length of their arm .. but most here are more sensible
& probably had far better & more productive things to do with their 10 years ...

Universities are sheltered workshops for bright people.....

[percy]

Wish I had been one of the bright people...
Always fancied myself as a brain surgeon,but never had the brain to be one...
Would have made in 2 hours a week what I made selling books in a week..

[Arthur]

Look at the Huge gap between Wages & Subsidy received in that article !

That is Wages ONLY up to 100% as well and absolutely none of the other fixed overheads they will be incurring

This is good illustration of exactly what the Labor Beehive Simpletons have failed to comprehend..

This is a well established business -- imagine what is happening to other less well resourced SME's

The article appears to be "factually challenged". Last year The Warehouse Group paid about $43 million a month in wages. How can they be $192 million a month short? If the monthly wage shortfall is correct it means the wage bill has skyrocketed to $244 million a month or $20,000 a month per employee. Clearly I should have been a checkout chick at The Warehouse if that is the monthly pay.

[nztx]

The article appears to be "factually challenged". Last year The Warehouse Group paid about $43 million a month in wages. How can they be $192 million a month short? If the monthly wage shortfall is correct it means the wage bill has skyrocketed to $244 million a month or $20,000 a month per employee. Clearly I should have been a checkout chick at The Warehouse if that is the monthly pay.

No more challenged than the cast of Beehive idiots who devised Selective Defective Wage Subsidies scheme in the first place which seems to have hit only part of the mark in places, overhit in others resulting in large smiles, and completely missed the mark elsewhere, but with glaring inherent large gaps that the whole of Govt's whole Transport Arm could navigate unnoticed .. while they missed & completely ignored the bigger picture ..

[winner69]

The Warehouse MOST TRUSTED retailer / department store

Noel Lemming MOST TRUSTED appliance store

Pretty good eh

https://www.trustedbrands.co.nz/results.asp

[Arthur]

No more challenged than the cast of Beehive idiots who devised Selective Defective Wage Subsidies scheme in the first place which seems to have hit only part of the mark in places, overhit in others resulting in large smiles, and completely missed the mark elsewhere, but with glaring inherent large gaps that the whole of Govt's whole Transport Arm could navigate unnoticed .. while they missed & completely ignored the bigger picture ..

Perhaps you could enlighten us in the perfect package you would have come up with in a week, or share five countries that have done it better.

[Cadalac123]

The Warehouse MOST TRUSTED retailer / department store

Noel Lemming MOST TRUSTED appliance store

Pretty good eh

https://www.trustedbrands.co.nz/results.asp

Why is there a "best pain relief" section .. lol can't take anything on that page seriously after seeing that.

[winner69]

Why is there a "best pain relief" section .. lol can't take anything on that page seriously after seeing that.

Dettol was most trusted at something

[traineeinvestor]

Why is there a "best pain relief" section .. lol can't take anything on that page seriously after seeing that.

I'm surprised Liqourland didn't win that one hands down.

[nztx]

Perhaps you could enlighten us in the perfect package you would have come up with in a week, or share five countries that have done it better.


I can tell you that the ideal perfect package would have cost a small fraction of what Labour have blown, been more effective, resulted in minimal wholesale disruption and carnage compared with what Labour's Beehive Idiot huddle have orchestrated.. ;)

[Arthur]

You have the benefit of hindsight, yet have not named anything or anywhere.....there is no doubt the package was imperfect. It did do what it was designed to do and get money out quickly an give breathing space to most businesses and employees. Six weeks later in the USA they are still pissing around with many businesses and many of the 20 million newly unemployed still getting no survival money. Sweden's much vaunted half pregnant approach will still result in over 10% unemployment, thousands dead and an economy that is likely to be less free than ours will be in a month. In the meantime if you have any real constructive ideas (instead of petty sniping) send them to Paul Goldsmith any other member of the Epidemic Response Committee who have been helping "make the boat go faster" There is plenty of time to electioneer when the boat is bailed and the holes are mostly plugged.

[ratkin]

Sweden normally have an unemployment rate of around 7 or 8 percent anyway, so headline scaremongering of 10% unemployment is a bit ridiculous, as it only a few percent above normal anyway.

when I left school in Cornwall, the town I was in had well over 20% unemployment, it will be a new experience for many, but there has to come a time when it has to be accepted, cannot keep giving away endless money to try and stave off the inevitable.

[tommy_d]

I can tell you that the ideal perfect package would have cost a small fraction of what Labour have blown, been more effective, resulted in minimal wholesale disruption and carnage compared with what Labour's Beehive Idiot huddle have orchestrated.. ;)
had cross-party support - so maybe blame parliament rather than the government if you don't like it. unless you're wearing blinkers.

[nztx]

You have the benefit of hindsight, yet have not named anything or anywhere.....there is no doubt the package was imperfect. It did do what it was designed to do and get money out quickly an give breathing space to most businesses and employees. Six weeks later in the USA they are still pissing around with many businesses and many of the 20 million newly unemployed still getting no survival money. Sweden's much vaunted half pregnant approach will still result in over 10% unemployment, thousands dead and an economy that is likely to be less free than ours will be in a month. In the meantime if you have any real constructive ideas (instead of petty sniping) send them to Paul Goldsmith any other member of the Epidemic Response Committee who have been helping "make the boat go faster" There is plenty of time to electioneer when the boat is bailed and the holes are mostly plugged.



Taiwan - Virus cases = 420 cases - less than 12 deaths (On what Population again ???)

Experienced in dealing with Pandemics from previous ones - this is the country we should have been following

When did they start turning around cruise ships & getting things in place to produce this ? - back in January 2020


Not very far away from the Cruise Ship where NZ Govt was spinning on about rescuing the first Cruise Ship passengers from either - for those who remember that very first Govt organised Urgent Air evacuation of NZ Citizens ...


Our Govt & Health Authorities have been caught out asleep at the wheel, failing to act at the pertinent time when they should have .. No Shut Down was at all necessary, No Wages or any Subsidy needed but for a couple of sectors or so only , No Large Scale Business Carnage, No large Scale Unemployment, No Large Scale Impact on the Economy -- none of these were necessary - if Govt & Health Authorities had been alert, exercised a little bit of Common sense & used the things perched on their shoulders applying a little bit of Logic..



They need only have looked at - what do we not want to close down completely & Least possible damage / cost / infection all round , then look at those countries closest to China for the ones with least Infection & Deaths and see how those countries achieved it..

All quite simple & Common sense really - a very far distance from the track that our own blind spinning Incompetent Beehive Muppets presided over by 'Whip-up-a-Crisis Cindy' have followed ;)


Is it too much to be expected that those in Ministry of Health & Govt look at a the frequent charts of Countries with Infection & Death Reports & look for other countries that probably should be represented but are NOT - questioning why they don't star or are not following the general trend ?

[macduffy]

Meanwhile, back at The Warehouse...…………..

:sleep:

[mikeybycrikey]

All quite simple & Common sense really - a very far distance from the track that our own blind spinning Incompetent Beehive Muppets presided over by 'Whip-up-a-Crisis Cindy' have followed ;)

All this magical "Captain Hindsight" analysis is why I don't read any of the covid threads on here.

I've just been out and got a coffee from around the corner and there is definitely some commerce going on.

Maybe WHS will be open in a handful of weeks and we can get back to normal. Will be interesting to hear how their retail is surviving with online and "contactless" only. I'm a little surprised that the WHS SP hasn't come back a little more in recent weeks.

[Chinesekiwi]

You have the benefit of hindsight, yet have not named anything or anywhere.....there is no doubt the package was imperfect. It did do what it was designed to do and get money out quickly an give breathing space to most businesses and employees. Six weeks later in the USA they are still pissing around with many businesses and many of the 20 million newly unemployed still getting no survival money. Sweden's much vaunted half pregnant approach will still result in over 10% unemployment, thousands dead and an economy that is likely to be less free than ours will be in a month. In the meantime if you have any real constructive ideas (instead of petty sniping) send them to Paul Goldsmith any other member of the Epidemic Response Committee who have been helping "make the boat go faster" There is plenty of time to electioneer when the boat is bailed and the holes are mostly plugged.

You really should consider being our leader, your knowledge of woudda shoudda coudda is clearly evident.

Taiwan, as you point out, was better prepared as they suffered badly and learnt from SARS - kudos to them.

Anyway, the country is better for your name calling and sniping.

I think it's clear this government was never going to satisfy you.

[winner69]

Unprecedented demand since Level 3 became ....can’t keep up According to story innthevHerald

Wow, what’ll happen when the stores actually open ...mayhem

No worries here

[bull....]

Warehouse Group proposes axing more than 1000 jobs
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337940

[winner69]

Warehouse Group proposes axing more than 1000 jobs
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337940

Be good for the share price this week

Senior execs sure earning their outrageous bonuses

[bottomfeeder]

Yes Tindall was on TV AM Show, saying rich New Zealanders should spend money to help others. Spouting about how lucky he was and how hard he worked. Also those that lost jobs should work hard at getting over it. What a hippocrit. Duncan Garner sucked right up to him. Its a shame Garner did not read Stuff or the Herald before the interview.

[Beagle]

Unprecedented demand since Level 3 became ....can’t keep up According to story innthevHerald

Wow, what’ll happen when the stores actually open ...mayhem

No worries here

On a quick skim read I am impressed with their plan to streamline the business and drive considerably more agility and efficiency and note that in the next 15 months a quarter of their store leases are up for renewal which will allow considerable further adaptability.

I shopped for some winter basics yesterday at the Warehouse and was quite impressed that really good thick fleece products were available at very sensible prices and not emblazoned with gaudy emblems and were in my size range. I bought quite a number of articles and noted at the checkout they have moved to K Mart model where you check out yourself.

I think the company is on the right track and the shares are sensibly priced. I also think they will do well going forward with the recent $25 per week increase in base beneficiaries weekly payment and I am sure Cindy will have more for the Warehouse's target demographic in her next term.

I bought a few shares this morning as I don't think there are any worries here.

[percy]

[QUOTE=Beagle;820525]On a quick skim read I am impressed with their plan to streamline the business and drive considerably more agility and efficiency and note that in the next 15 months a quarter of their store leases are up for renewal which will allow considerable further adaptability.

I think their landlords are going to have very sharp pencils to keep them as tenants.
I would expect WHS to walk away from a number of leases.
Still a lot of costs involved in closing stores.
In the meantime we can work out WHS are tied into 75% of their leases, for a period of longer than 15 months.

[Beagle]

Market is looking through the Covid 19 restructuring and one-off costs. People need the basics mate, warm winter tops / jackets and 101 other basic items. WHS well placed to provide them and weather any downturn well. The lower end of the retail market will be considerably more resilient than other sectors in my view.

I expect this to spill over into the vehicle market too. Toyota with their sensible pricing and excellent reputation for reliability and modest servicing costs will do a heck of a lot better than for example BMW or Mercedes-Benz in the foreseeable future.

[percy]

All retail including new vehicles is changing very quickly.
A great number of retailers will not survive.A number of mall owners and other commercial property owners will struggle,and I note in ChCh major mall tenants are moving out of malls.
Back to WHS.Yes they are moving back to their original market position,where they have always done well,but it comes at an ongoing cost.
I would expect they have a number of doubtful stores with leases of 5 years to run or more.
So it is not a quick fix,but a must fix to stay competitive.,and so stay in business.
ps.Wife brought brother in law a couple of pairs of track suit pants yesterday from WHS.Excellent value.
pps Interesting noting the retailers I expect to survive ie HLG,BGP,and WHS have a very strong online channels.KMD and GXH I have my doubts.

[Beagle]

All retail including new vehicles is changing very quickly.
A great number of retailers will not survive.A number of mall owners and other commercial property owners will struggle,and I note in ChCh major mall tenants are moving out of malls.
Back to WHS.Yes they are moving back to their original market position,where they have always done well,but it comes at an ongoing cost.
I would expect they have a number of doubtful stores with leases of 5 years to run or more.
So it is not a quick fix,but a must fix to stay competitive.,and so stay in business.
ps.Wife brought brother in law a couple of pairs of track suit pants yesterday from WHS.Excellent value.

Yeah I noticed those and that they have really thick warm fleece too. Very warm and toasty :)
WHS were a very good dividend payer before this Covid 19 virus. I expect that to be the case going forward so I bought a modest sized parcel for income.

[kerryo]

'This is going to be a rough ride': More store closures likely as 1080 jobs hang in the balance, Warehouse Group CEO says.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/121752684/this-is-going-to-be-a-rough-ride-more-store-closures-likely-as-1080-jobs-hang-in-the-balance-warehouse-group-ceo-says

[kiwidollabill]

Always remembered "never loose the opportunity that a good crisis provides you". COVID provides a backdrop of restructuring they were probably wanting to do anyway....

[Beagle]

Always remembered "never loose the opportunity that a good crisis provides you". COVID provides a backdrop of restructuring they were probably wanting to do anyway....

Bingo !!!!!

[winner69]

Bingo !!!!!

I betcha you not a WHS shareholder when Christmas this year comes around.

[MauroNZ]

On level 3 I ordered some packaging tape, click and collect. I don't know how long would have taken if I didn't contact them saying that after 10 days I didn't have any update on my shopping. That was my first time buying this way. As the store is close to me I preferred click and collect than delivery, I hope my experience is just one off.

[Beagle]

I betcha you not a WHS shareholder when Christmas this year comes around.

I wouldn't bet on that if I were you mate. It was a very solid interim result with debt coming down very nicely indeed http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/350048/318915.pdf and I think moves to make the business more agile and efficient are very sound. Recent movements in the exchange rate have not gone unnoticed by me and are helpful to companies like WHS.

I think many people have forgotten this business is capable of paying 20 cps in annual fully imputed dividends (20 / 0.72) = 27.78 cps gross which on $2.25 share price = 12.35% gross. They mostly sell consumer staples as you know. I think you'd be better betting on me doubling or tripling today's initial modest stake.

[tga_trader]

I hope my experience is just one off.
:lol: Go and read the comments on The Warehouse and Noel Leeming facebook pages for a glimpse into their customer service.
WHS wont be getting any more of my 'shop local' dollars after our last experience.

[Beagle]

:lol: Go and read the comments on The Warehouse and Noel Leeming facebook pages for a glimpse into their customer service.
WHS wont be getting any more of my 'shop local' dollars after our last experience.

Many retailers had a melt down in service standards over the Covid period with demand exceeding their ability to pack and especially ship in a timely manner. Certainly not just a WHS problem. We're Covid free and headed for level 1 at midnight tonight, woohoo !!!!!! :t_up: :t_up: :t_up:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12338052

[Sideshow Bob]

:lol: Go and read the comments on The Warehouse and Noel Leeming facebook pages for a glimpse into their customer service.
WHS wont be getting any more of my 'shop local' dollars after our last experience.

Wasn't just on Facebook - was on TV1 news last night as well. Most people understanding on delays on couriers when they have been completely snowed under, but this was way more WHS' fault by the sounds of it. Not good advertising.....

Although I know from my company consumers often blame the retailer when the courier company drops the ball.

[BlackPeter]

On level 3 I ordered some packaging tape, click and collect. I don't know how long would have taken if I didn't contact them saying that after 10 days I didn't have any update on my shopping. That was my first time buying this way. As the store is close to me I preferred click and collect than delivery, I hope my experience is just one off.

Ordered several items over the last 4 weeks from the ware house (some winter basics plus some IT stuff) and received everything within the promised time frame. 2 parcels took 5 days, one took 7 days and one 11 days. Not sure, though why they split 2 orders into 4 parcels ... I think they could have saved some postage.

From a customer perspective no reason to complain.

[Beagle]

Off topic, I don't know about others but I have had enough of Briscoes with their so called sales. Even at their 50% off sales similar items are usually substantially cheaper at K Mart or The Warehouse. I think the tipping point for me was when I looked for a new cheap vacuum cleaner for my office and Briscoes regular price for some cheap looking Chinese made vacuum was $600. Even at 50% off it was a complete rort. Honestly, I haven't been back since then. That Briscoes lady customers identify with doesn't look quite so fresh these days anymore either.

I think in tougher times people are looking for genuine value and start to see through retailers that engage in widespread value charades. My 2 cents on Briscoes.

[percy]

Off topic, I don't know about others but I have had enough of Briscoes with their so called sales. Even at their 50% off sales similar items are usually substantially cheaper at K Mart or The Warehouse. I think the tipping point for me was when I looked for a new cheap vacuum cleaner for my office and Briscoes regular price for some cheap looking Chinese made vacuum was $600. Even at 50% off it was a complete rort. Honestly, I haven't been back since then. That Briscoes lady customers identify with doesn't look quite so fresh these days anymore either.

I think in tougher times people are looking for genuine value and start to see through retailers that engage in widespread value charades. My 2 cents on Briscoes.

You will surprise yourself at Noel Leemings.
Nilfisk Meteor was a great buy a couple of years ago,and even cheaper with my Gold Card.

[winner69]

Don’t think The PM will be shopping at The Warehouse

She’s angry ...again ...wasn’t she angry when they tried to claim to be exempt from Level 3 or 4

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/418571/warehouse-job-cuts-i-m-angry-jacinda-ardern

Will this ‘restructure’ be any more successful than past efforts ....doubt it for a broken business model that The Warehouse is ...Noel Leeming OK though

[Sideshow Bob]

Off topic, I don't know about others but I have had enough of Briscoes with their so called sales. Even at their 50% off sales similar items are usually substantially cheaper at K Mart or The Warehouse. I think the tipping point for me was when I looked for a new cheap vacuum cleaner for my office and Briscoes regular price for some cheap looking Chinese made vacuum was $600. Even at 50% off it was a complete rort. Honestly, I haven't been back since then. That Briscoes lady customers identify with doesn't look quite so fresh these days anymore either.

I think in tougher times people are looking for genuine value and start to see through retailers that engage in widespread value charades. My 2 cents on Briscoes.

Anyone should know these days that Briscoes sales aren't necessarily value - or prices are substantially higher to begin with. Hate to think how much of their business is done during a sale.

Electrical brands are easy to compare - other stuff not quite so widespread distribution or as strongly brand identified. But for instance we bought a pressure cooker recently - over $300 in Briscoes, $119 in Harvey's on promo (and we got Airpoint dollars! :eek2:).

Lucky you don't live in Canterbury Mr B - they'd lynch you for saying Tammy doesn't look quite so fresh these days!

[CD_CHCH]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121764332/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-angry-at-the-warehouse-group-for-proposing-1080-job-cuts

"Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she's "angry" at the Warehouse Group for proposing to cut up to 1080 jobs"

And this coming from the person leading the govt that is charging our national carrier an exorbitant interest rate so they can survive, and using foreign overseas companies for Kiwirail work.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337516

She has no moral high ground on this one - perhaps this is her idea of 'being kind'

Before criticising others perhaps she should be taking a long hard look at the govt's string of broken promises and wasted money.

(Not saying that any of the others are any better - as the old saying goes "how do you know when a politician is lying?" - Their lips are moving)

[Zaphod]

A perhaps very politically naïve comment to make, that only reinforces the disconnect between her government and the business community.

The reality is that the Warehouse like all retailers, is under significant fiscal pressure due to consumer spending constraints brought on by our response to the pandemic. The PM knows this. A better tactic would have been to acknowledge the economic reality the pandemic has caused (avoid blaming the response of the government), and pointing out what support arrangements are available, and encourage the Warehouse to engage further with the government. A missed opportunity.

[Zaphod]

Ordered several items over the last 4 weeks from the ware house (some winter basics plus some IT stuff) and received everything within the promised time frame. 2 parcels took 5 days, one took 7 days and one 11 days. Not sure, though why they split 2 orders into 4 parcels ... I think they could have saved some postage.

From a customer perspective no reason to complain.

Many single online Warehouse orders were split amongst multiple stores. Briscoes did the same, with one product we ordered arriving from Whakatane.

[Zaphod]

In the cheap and cheerful retail space, I think Kmart usurped the Warehouse sometime ago.

Not specific to Kmart or the Warehouse: Consumers are increasingly shopping based on price, and it's a race to the bottom in terms of quality and profits. Wholesalers (and the labour that produce the products) are being severely squeezed; the big box retailers are maintaining higher margins than ever before. We have created a monster.

[Rep]

The PM is 'angry' about the job losses at TWG especially after it claimed $52m in wage subsidy.

If you consider that the wage subsidy really kicked in for TWG from March 25th then the twelve weeks will expire next week. The indications are that even with the bar being lowered from 50% to 40% that TWG won't be able to receive the extended wage subsidy of another 8 weeks. For some workers, the wage subsidy may have covered most of the wage bill but a lot of workers even at 80%, employers were still paying out the majority of the pay with diminished or no revenue to pay for that cash outflow. This is going to be exacerbated now - stores that were marginal pre-COVID could well be underwater with the economic contraction that we face into.

Consumer habits have changed - online shopping which was always a threat, is now a bigger part of our lives and if international air freight gets sufficient capacity and the cost of freight comes down with competition then it's going to be even bigger.

Lots of us aren't going to the office. The CBD shopping strips don't have tourists walking by, international and domestic tertiary students walking by, office workers walking by.
The reality is lots of those retail businesses that rely on passing foot traffic will shutter for good in the next few months (if they haven't already). It won't be there fault but the owners will come to the conclusion that they can't keep paying the bills anymore to survive.

What about retail property landlords? No rent for several weeks and potentially a bunch of tenants who will have to default on their leases. Then having to deal with vacancies and big inducements to find replacement tenants - they've been left out in the cold so far. A lot of these folk are retired who were looking for passive incomes?

Will the PM rail @ Max Fashions for closing about a quarter of its retail footprint? Will she rail at retail SMEs that have to throw in the towel and cast off workers? How about Tourism operators, restaurants, cafes?
Are they not part of the community? Is Air NZ not part of the community, for the community and is majority Government owned but will cast off more workers to survive?

The reality is TWG is trying to survive right now. So are many businesses - there's over 12,000 reported to date but that doesn't include all of the SMEs or unlisted businesses out there.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300022327/12000-headlinegrabbing-redundancies-tip-of-the-iceberg

The country is rightly proud and proud of the PM to get us to no active cases. Now's the really hard part which is the tab we are going to have to pick up together in the next decade or so.

[Zaphod]

Will the PM rail @ Max Fashions for closing about a quarter of its retail footprint? Will she rail at retail SMEs that have to throw in the towel and cast off workers? How about Tourism operators, restaurants, cafes?
Are they not part of the community? Is Air NZ not part of the community, for the community and is majority Government owned but will cast off more workers to survive?

The reality is TWG is trying to survive right now. So are many businesses - there's over 12,000 reported to date but that doesn't include all of the SMEs or unlisted businesses out there.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300022327/12000-headlinegrabbing-redundancies-tip-of-the-iceberg

The country is rightly proud and proud of the PM to get us to no active cases. Now's the really hard part which is the tab we are going to have to pick up together in the next decade or so.

Yes - locking down an isolated and small country is the relatively easy part, but staving off a depression and rebuilding the economy is going to be exceptionally difficult for any party, especially Labour in its current form.

[Balance]

Yes - locking down an isolated and small country is the relatively easy part, but staving off a depression and rebuilding the economy is going to be exceptionally difficult for any party, especially Labour in its current form.

How many posters here have confidence that this government can manage the economy out of the nose diving recession in the next 3 years?

[Beagle]

Last time I checked the Warehouse is not spelt WINZ and is perfectly entitled to streamline their business and good on them. PM should stick to throwing helicopter money around and let WHS stick to what they do.

[ratkin]

Yes - locking down an isolated and small country is the relatively easy part, but staving off a depression and rebuilding the economy is going to be exceptionally difficult for any party, especially Labour in its current form.

What many do not seem to realise is the pain has not even started yet. All the soon to be covid unemployed are still fairly minted with redundancy and govt handouts, this thing going to take ages to unravel.

[Balance]

What many do not seem to realise is the pain has not even started yet. All the soon to be covid unemployed are still fairly minted with redundancy and govt handouts, this thing going to take ages to unravel.

Don't worry about it - government still have $20 billion to throw at the economy before elections in September.

Such happy times ahead! :t_up:

[traineeinvestor]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121764332/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-angry-at-the-warehouse-group-for-proposing-1080-job-cuts

"Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she's "angry" at the Warehouse Group for proposing to cut up to 1080 jobs"

And this coming from the person leading the govt that is charging our national carrier an exorbitant interest rate so they can survive, and using foreign overseas companies for Kiwirail work.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12337516

She has no moral high ground on this one - perhaps this is her idea of 'being kind'

Before criticising others perhaps she should be taking a long hard look at the govt's string of broken promises and wasted money.


Well said. "Be kind" is used strictly in the Orwellian sense.

[Beagle]

Don't worry about it - government still have $20 billion to throw at the economy before elections in September.

Such happy times ahead! :t_up:

Agreed and Cindy is an absolute certainty to get a second term unbridled from the constraints and checks and balances of Winston Peter's and then watch the socialism really start. WHS target demographic stand to get considerably more support than just the $25 per week recent benefit increase. Her comrades will be well looked after.

[Balance]

Agreed and Cindy is an absolute certainty to get a second term unbridled from the constraints and checks and balances of Winston Peter's and then watch the socialism really start. WHS target demographic stand to get considerably more support than just the $25 per week recent benefit increase. Her comrades will be well looked after.

Now you are scaring me!

Watch out for:

Marginal tax rate hike up to 45% (temporary only like Muldoon's 66%),

GST to 17.5% (it's crisis time so extreme measures are required),

Wealth tax of 2% on properties over $1m (based upon last CV),

Financial services tax of 2.5% on all financial transactions,

and stamp duty of 2% on all real estate transactions (except first home buyers).

All welfare benefits to be increased by 25%, except national super.

[Bjauck]

After all the Covid restrictions, Ardern now seems to know how to save the Warehouse business better than the Warehouse directors. It is time for the PM to step aside from interfering in business and let business try to survive and salvage its profitability so that investors do not desert it for investment in real estate.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12338235


...
...
Financial services tax of 2.5% on all financial transactions,

and stamp duty of 2% on all real estate transactions (except first home buyers).

... Quite sensible and in keeping with other OECD countries to introduce stamp duty on some real estate transactions. Also a financial transaction tax of some sort (although not at the rate suggested) is as fair a way for revenue raising as GST, duties, excise or Income tax.

[whatsup]

What is happening to WHS now is justice for what they did to Mom and Pop stores up and down N Z 20 years ago, they disappeared and now that they (WHS ) are going from some small towns the Moms and Pops store are not there to replace them, what comes around goes around !!!!

[King1212]

Master Beagle....aunty Cindy is very pissed off with u too. ..buying company that cut kiwis jobs.....lol

[Cadalac123]

Master Beagle....aunty Cindy is very pissed off with u too. ..buying company that cut kiwis jobs.....lol

I knew king would enter this thread as soon as beagle entered.
Senpai beagle eh

[percy]

What many do not seem to realise is the pain has not even started yet. All the soon to be covid unemployed are still fairly minted with redundancy and govt handouts, this thing going to take ages to unravel.

Agree with you.
nfometrics' Brad Olsen provided analysis to Newshub showing a 'second wave' of unemployment may hit New Zealand and an extra 80,000 people could lose their jobs

[Bjauck]

What is happening to WHS now is justice for what they did to Mom and Pop stores up and down N Z 20 years ago, they disappeared and now that they (WHS ) are going from some small towns the Moms and Pops store are not there to replace them, what comes around goes around !!!! Maybe small stores will replace the Warehouse - at a price for local consumers in small town NZ. Political Parties should be free to introduce policies to subsidise those who live in small towns though.

[percy]

Maybe small stores will replace the Warehouse - at a price for local consumers in small town NZ. Political Parties should be free to introduce policies to subsidise those who live in small towns though.

Not workable.

[winner69]

One thing WHS are good at is ‘normalising’ their ‘operational profit’

Been doing it for years and with Covid and restructuring and wage subsidies no doubt they’ll be ‘normalising’ for years to come ...and the market will fall it again.

Nearly $100m of abnormals / one offs is big amount last few years

[winner69]

Kmart grew revenues 10% in F19 while the Watrehouse (red) sales growth was anaemic.

Kmart growth been solid for a few years now ..Warehouse (red) sales are about the same as they were 5 years ago ...bit of an indictment that is.

Interestingly Warehouse (red) sales fell post GFC which belied common belief that punters would flock to those sort of stores

Noel Leeming only part of group that has any prospects.

But that's in the past ...the fully transformed and restructured company will be great.

[Panda-NZ-]

I think some self-service checkouts like Kmart has will be helpful and reduce costs/prices further.

[winner69]

I think some self-service checkouts like Kmart has will be helpful and reduce costs/prices further.

Been that way at Lyall Bay for a few years

Last time I used the shopper before me hadn’t completed the transaction (ie not paid) but had left with the 80 bucks of goods ....Person in charge couldn’t understand how he got away with it ha ha

Might increase losses

[Beagle]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/news/remain-viable-the-warehouse-group-ceo-explains-staff-layoffs-despite-dollar67m-wage-subsidy/ar-BB15dLhl?ocid=spartanntp

[winner69]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/news/remain-viable-the-warehouse-group-ceo-explains-staff-layoffs-despite-dollar67m-wage-subsidy/ar-BB15dLhl?ocid=spartanntp

Hope you read this bit -


Feedback from customers indicated that spending would drop as economic conditions worsen, he said.

"For example, 49 percent of our customers told us that they've already started restricting the purchase of everyday items, 25 percent have said 'we've slammed on the brakes' and 76 percent [expect] tough times ahead."

Pretty sobering

[Beagle]

Yeap. All depends when they took the survey. Considerably more optimism now that we're in level 1. All good, no worries.

[King1212]

Nah cadalac... retailer is not me eh...i like Kogan....ASX

[horus1]

I owned these once at $4 I think. Got out fast. Not well managed , not changing with the times , and not seeing reality. Not a good idea to get offside with high profile politicians of either colour. A dog of a share

[tim23]

I lost $ on WHS too - and when I see the CEO trotting out that silly agile and nimble stuff I cringe!

[winner69]

I lost $ on WHS too - and when I see the CEO trotting out that silly agile and nimble stuff I cringe!

I think Nick is the only person in the world who thinks Nick is great

Pretty good at putting together glossy presentations though .....with cool strategy diagrams ....and heaps of buzz words and phrases. Even beagle once said he’s probably the only one who believes his own bull****.

Execution .....hopeless

[Beagle]

Nobody wants to follow the Beagle...that's okay...I am always happy to follow my own nose for a feed which is seldom wrong. 20 cents fully imputed = 12.5% gross.
Nobody wanted to follow me when I bought into HLG in 2016 at $2.70 and was getting 15% gross yield...ended up at over $6 at one point.
A decent restructure and slimming down of their branch network is long overdue and 25% of branches have their leases up for renewal in the next 15 months. I can smell a good feed with this one. Cindy will be throwing money around in her second term at beneficiaries and families like a whole ship load of drunken sailors on shore leave and Nick will be trimming down costs to get his well earned bonus.

So its okay...I will venture out into the cold winter world of retail again all on my own...just look at my cool well padded jacket I bought with the fat profits from my HLG adventure, what could possibly go wrong this time :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r67UOkKByyA

[tim23]

I think Nick is the only person in the world who thinks Nick is great

Pretty good at putting together glossy presentations though .....with cool strategy diagrams ....and heaps of buzz words and phrases. Even beagle once said he’s probably the only one who believes his own bull****.

Execution .....hopeless

My thoughts entirely - hes just a little bit cute & clever he probably socialises ideas too!

[value_investor]

My opinion on this, Very sad to see people lose their jobs. Would the re-structure had happened without covid? Most likely but not as soon. This is the part of the way things are in the current climate which is the cruelest even though it is the way it goes. The people that are responsible for the strategy and execution get to keep their jobs, the people that just carry out the day to day tasks who don't have a say don't.

The executors of said strategy should be held more accountable in these times I feel. The executive team have not covered themselves in glory at all, constantly playing catch up. Poor strategy and poor implementation.

I shop at WHS perhaps two or three times a year and really I get reminded of why I don't like going in there. Poor layout, poor product and not a lot of help. The online experience has improved vastly but honestly, I feel as though it has just caught up to what Mightyape and co have already been doing for years.

Not a holder, but also reinforces why I don't buy retail stocks at all. I almost caved and bought HLG but haven't, things in this space move so quickly, one bad move or failure to adopt to the competition and you can easily fall by the wayside in a year or 18 months.

[winner69]

Why WHS is a BUY

For over 5 years and 100+ posts Beagle has been disparaging of WHS - disparaging it’s management, telling us the business model is broken for these days, hopeless strategy etc etc ...in effect saying they were useless and and as he correctly pointed out only lead to tremendous destruction of shareholder wealth

And then only recently warning us that all retailers will suffer as we endure the biggest depression since the 1930’s (maybe worse). The Stockmarket was not a safe place and retail in particular was not a place to be.

Now almost overnight WHS is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Great strategy and customers like drunken sailors home from sea rushing in ....they have the goods at the price people want to pay. Can’t lose position.

WhT caused the change of heart. Something sparked this revelation, maybe it was a calling from above. Who knows.

I don’t think beagle is in it for the promised 20 cent divie. He’s a out and out trader and has seen a ‘bargain’ and has targeted the share prices getting to $4 next year sometime.

when Beagle says you heard it from me that WHS is great buying at 220 odd one must listen. His track record is impeccable. I look forward to the day next year year when he’s closed out this trade at over $4 by saying it’s overpriced and better risk adjusted yields elsewhere.

Disc. I’ve in ...will double up if the price spikes down on a bad market day but I must remember this is not an investment per se but a straight out and out trade and act accordingly

[Raz]

Why WHS is a BUY

For over 5 years and 100+ posts Beagle has been disparaging of WHS - disparaging it’s management, telling us the business model is broken for these days, hopeless strategy etc etc ...in effect saying they were useless and and as he correctly pointed out only lead to tremendous destruction of shareholder wealth

And then only recently warning us that all retailers will suffer as we endure the biggest depression since the 1930’s (maybe worse). The Stockmarket was not a safe place and retail in particular was not a place to be.

Now almost overnight WHS is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Great strategy and customers like drunken sailors home from sea rushing in ....they have the goods at the price people want to pay. Can’t lose position.

WhT caused the change of heart. Something sparked this revelation, maybe it was a calling from above. Who knows.

I don’t think beagle is in it for the promised 20 cent divie. He’s a out and out trader and has seen a ‘bargain’ and has targeted the share prices getting to $4 next year sometime.

when Beagle says you heard it from me that WHS is great buying at 220 odd one must listen. His track record is impeccable. I look forward to the day next year year when he’s closed out this trade at over $4 by saying it’s overpriced and better risk adjusted yields elsewhere.

Disc. I’ve in ...will double up if the price spikes down on a bad market day but I must remember this is not an investment per se but a straight out and out trade and act accordingly

You two have been chatting again, I appreciate Beagle insights, I think he has a had a few misfires and is human, like all of us, "impeccable" is just a little OTT :) Your certainly invested winner in more ways than one..

[winner69]

You two have been chatting again, I appreciate Beagle insights, I think he has a had a few misfires and is human, like all of us, "impeccable" is just a little OTT :) Your certainly invested winner in more ways than one..

...then again couldvturn out to be a short term trade

[MauroNZ]

it's a shame because I understand the delay on preparing and packing the order. My point is that they haven't communicated which could be an e-mail saying "sorry for the delay we are still processing your order".

[MauroNZ]

Ordered several items over the last 4 weeks from the ware house (some winter basics plus some IT stuff) and received everything within the promised time frame. 2 parcels took 5 days, one took 7 days and one 11 days. Not sure, though why they split 2 orders into 4 parcels ... I think they could have saved some postage.

From a customer perspective no reason to complain.

Even better then, thanks for sharing it :).

[Beagle]

Best I clear a couple of things up.

Nobody is impeccable and infallible. Even the very best fund managers and professional investors don't get better than 80% of their decisions right.
I set a very high bar for myself and hope to get more than that but mistakes have been made, for sure, plenty of them.

I think it is extremely unlikely the shares will double in the foreseeable future. I bought this as a dividend income story. They had a good track record of paying circa 20 cps in annual fully imputed dividends before Covid 19 and I think they can get back there, which is 12.5% gross yield. I bought for income and only income and have no expectations whatsoever of capital gain going forward however (as with my HLG purchases for income in 2016) as is often the case especially now with interest rates at historically low levels, I would not be surprised if it was rerated when the market sees this 12.5% yield as sustainable.

Investors are really hunting for income and I am simply trying to get ahead of the pack and see what's possible here before others do.

My sense is there is a shift toward value in the retail market. If I can't be bothered paying $90 for a sweatshirt with a fancy Kathmandu label, I doubt many others will and will shop at places like HLG and WHS and get one with no label for $25.

I think moves to drive more efficiency in the business including store and head office rationalisations make sense to me.

They withheld their recent dividend, their debt level's came down very nicely before this with their very good interim result, they shed their problematic finance division a while back and they seem to be turning this ship around and are pretty well positioned with their product offer to meet consumers demand for value consumer essentials. Consumer basics do well in a recession. Disc: Its just a VERY small "nursery sized stake" at this stage. I will add to it if I like how things unfold in the foreseeable future.

[Joshuatree]

You're a brave man thinking its all over and time to get back in.


"9-10% fall in houses is almost our baseline" reserve bank on Q&A @ 37 min 40 secs


43:03 (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2020-e16)

[bull....]

good luck , big box retail is going to struggle as everything heads to online. whs is survival mode only at the moment

[winner69]

One thing that struck me when I read the half year report (when it came out) was that while Warehouse (red) sales were up 1% their online sales were down 10% yoy

Suggested to me that their online offering wasn’t much cop ...and that was in normal times. Post Covid more punters might go on line but there’s that underlying thought that Warehouse on line isn’t in great shape to capitalise on that.

Noel Leeming best part of the group by far

[keerti]

Thanks Beagle for the great insight.
How WHS would be impacted by the entry of Costco and possible Amazon online to NZ market in couple of years? Because you are talking long term and then these factors would be critical to the company.
Another note, we as a family like Kmart but still end up buying more from Warehouse, maybe because of more stores, marketing and better online presence.

[Beagle]

Beagle,

I appreciate you sharing your views. Even though I don’t agree that the WHS is a good buy/well run company, your willingness to share your thinking is great. I almost always get some insights from your considered posts. WHS seems to have had more “new turnaround initiatives” than most (with the possible exception of Fletcher Building) over last 5 years or so. Share price has kept going south.

Hi mate. My thinking is its a long established brand so reinventing itself has to be part of what they do. In terms of the share price, taking out the recent exuberance and pessimism I think as you can see from this chart over the last 3 years, its fair to say its built a base at just over $2 11685 In my post I suggested people are "hunting" for income. When I re-read it this morning I read it as people are "hurting" for income and I really think that's a much more profound way to look at this stock. With ongoing restructuring and efficiency initiatives with its substantial network of stores in N.Z. selling mostly consumer staple items, I think with some decent streamlining its capable of being a very good income stock again and paying circa 10 cps x 2 per annum in fully imputed dividends.


Thanks Beagle for the great insight.
How WHS would be impacted by the entry of Costco and possible Amazon online to NZ market in couple of years? Because you are talking long term and then these factors would be critical to the company.
Another note, we as a family like Kmart but still end up buying more from Warehouse, maybe because of more stores, marketing and better online presence.
Market penetration is the thing. Even K Mart are not that big in N.Z. WHS have about 260 stores throughout N.Z. and as a brand they're extremely well known. I see many people in a recession changing their shopping habits to consumer staples. Less likely to shop at Briscoes, Kathmandu, Rebel Sport and Haldenstein's and more likely to look for value at the Warehouse. Its a yield story for me. Investors really are starting to hurt for investment income and any stock that can reliably fix that problem is going to attract some attention in the forseeable future, in my opinion.

Anyway....I am LONG overdue to make a loss on something so maybe everyone is better to stay away and forget about this one and I'll be a lone Beagle pulling the sled along myself and probably fall over my own paws lol

[kiwidollabill]

Best I clear a couple of things up.

My sense is there is a shift toward value in the retail market. If I can't be bothered paying $90 for a sweatshirt with a fancy Kathmandu label, I doubt many others will and will shop at places like HLG and WHS and get one with no label for $25.

The first part of this is true, that there will be consumers discounting down to value. However, that doesn't necessary mean they will be putting their $ to work at WHS, there are lots of places for cheap clothes..... what is WHS value prop to customers nowdays.... that is the ultimate question. Plenty of US bulk/discount retailers which didn't refresh themselves coming out of the GFC and lost alot of shareholder value...

My current view is 'on the fence', give it 6-9 months and we'll see if they can turn the ship north. Disc, not a holder

[Panda-NZ-]

The first part of this is true, that there will be consumers discounting down to value. However, that doesn't necessary mean they will be putting their $ to work at WHS, there are lots of places for cheap clothes..... what is WHS value prop to customers nowdays.... that is the ultimate question. Plenty of US bulk/discount retailers which didn't refresh themselves coming out of the GFC and lost alot of shareholder value...

My current view is 'on the fence', give it 6-9 months and we'll see if they can turn the ship north. Disc, not a holder

GST is now on overseas goods and most services. this will benefit WHS as well as people looking for better value now as well.

[winner69]

The first part of this is true, that there will be consumers discounting down to value. However, that doesn't necessary mean they will be putting their $ to work at WHS, there are lots of places for cheap clothes..... what is WHS value prop to customers nowdays.... that is the ultimate question. Plenty of US bulk/discount retailers which didn't refresh themselves coming out of the GFC and lost alot of shareholder value...

My current view is 'on the fence', give it 6-9 months and we'll see if they can turn the ship north. Disc, not a holder

Op shops doing a roaring trade at the moment

Plenty of wardrobes full of good quality stuff cleared out during lockdown now finding another wearer

Got a nice red pure wool jersey the other day for $15 ....cool

As an observation Warehouse stuff probably cheaper than Sally Army ...but better quality at the Sallies

[winner69]

Retail sales bouncing back well. ..May a good month (except for hospice and clothes)

https://westpaciq.westpac.com.au/Article/43781/53404/

[King1212]

Newbie crying out at the share Facebook....wonder why share that he bought 2 days ago lost almost 10%

Hihih...too many newbies around

[tim23]

Best I clear a couple of things up.

Nobody is impeccable and infallible. Even the very best fund managers and professional investors don't get better than 80% of their decisions right.
I set a very high bar for myself and hope to get more than that but mistakes have been made, for sure, plenty of them.

I think it is extremely unlikely the shares will double in the foreseeable future. I bought this as a dividend income story. They had a good track record of paying circa 20 cps in annual fully imputed dividends before Covid 19 and I think they can get back there, which is 12.5% gross yield. I bought for income and only income and have no expectations whatsoever of capital gain going forward however (as with my HLG purchases for income in 2016) as is often the case especially now with interest rates at historically low levels, I would not be surprised if it was rerated when the market sees this 12.5% yield as sustainable.

Investors are really hunting for income and I am simply trying to get ahead of the pack and see what's possible here before others do.

My sense is there is a shift toward value in the retail market. If I can't be bothered paying $90 for a sweatshirt with a fancy Kathmandu label, I doubt many others will and will shop at places like HLG and WHS and get one with no label for $25.

I think moves to drive more efficiency in the business including store and head office rationalisations make sense to me.

They withheld their recent dividend, their debt level's came down very nicely before this with their very good interim result, they shed their problematic finance division a while back and they seem to be turning this ship around and are pretty well positioned with their product offer to meet consumers demand for value consumer essentials. Consumer basics do well in a recession. Disc: Its just a VERY small "nursery sized stake" at this stage. I will add to it if I like how things unfold in the foreseeable future.

I bought WHS over BGR post GFC as I thought people would move to value - I was wrong!

[Panda-NZ-]

I bought WHS over BGR post GFC as I thought people would move to value - I was wrong!

They have paid high dividends during that time which partly offsets the loss in the share price.

[tim23]

They have paid high dividends during that time which partly offsets the loss in the share price.

Maybe but BGR was a better bet

[winner69]

This post is about The Warehouse Red Sheds

I’ve had a morbid fascination with The Red Sheds since the turn of the century when I was co-opted onto a project about whether big box hardware retailing was viable in NZ and what impacts big box retailing would have general retail trends. Today as a bit of escapism from the weird world we have today I updated some of the data.

As part of that project I did a paper on how Warehouse had tracked since inception and what their future would look like. They were still adding foot print and growing at the time. We used Walmart and Home Depot history as a guide as to what might happen to the Red Sheds.

The key conclusions we came to were 1) there would be a point in time when additional footprint would add no extra value (market saturation) and they would struggle to grow and 2) for a variety of reasons operating margins would decrease over time.

Market saturation came for the Red Sheds around 2004.


The table below shows what’s happened to their financial performance from 2004 to 2019. Could put some pretty graphs but essentially revenues have only grown slowly with a few ups and downs, market share has gradually declined over the last 15 years and Operating Margins have consistently and gradually contracted over the last 15 years.

Many things have impacted the market and them over the years and many a story has been told by Warehouse management as to how they are fixing things .....but all the numbers suggest is a gradual and consistent decline in performance while not even keeping up with overall market growth (lost share)

Losing share, stuff all recenue growth and margin contraction is so entrenched in the Red Sheds it’s hard to imagine such a trend reversing. The consumer has talked.

Just a bit of escapism today and I feel that my morbid fascination with the Red Sheds will continue for many years to come.

Interestingly it’s about 17 years ago that Mitre 10 and Bunnings started big box retailing in NZ and they are now where Red Sheds were 15 years ....reached saturation in NZ and finding it hard to grow.

[winner69]

Red Sheds (and as such Warehouse Group);profitability largely dependent on revenues, esp if thinking from a growth perspective

Interesting chart below - Red Sheds growth compared to growth in overall NZ core retail sales.

Highlights consistent and gradual loss of share .....and maybe for these times might provide insights as to what happen next few years if GFC is a guide. You can decide for yourselves.

From an investment point of view Warehouse not totally stuffed. They’ll continue to make a bob or two and normalised profit will gyrate a little around current levels.

One thing going for the Group is Noel Leeming’s ....they should continue to perform OK

The Tindall Foundation will still want their dividend so even if WHS has to stretch its balance sheet they will make sure a dividend is paid.

Would not be in WHS for growth but many will be happy with a regular payout

[Beagle]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/341526/308395.pdf Front page is very much on trend for the times isn't it !

CAGR isolating just the red sheds is not especially helpful, I'd rather consider the CAGR of the group as a whole.

Normalised profit 21.5 cps and paying 17 cps in annual dividends will not lead to stretching of the balance sheet, in fact debt level's came down really nicely at the half year result recently.

I stick with 5 year analysis, anything further back is not especially helpful in looking forward in my view. (Others will have legacy issues with underperformance under different management and I understand their perspective but won't let it cloud my assessment of future maintainable dividends)

Pages 67-68 - 5 year summary look quite satisfactory to me from an income perspective. In an investment world starved for income this one selling consumer staples looks well capable of continuing the trend of paying reliable income going forward.

Cindy will be back for a second and possibly third term to ensure the WHS demographic are well looked after and have plenty of money for consumer basics.
I see no reason why this can't pay sustainable fully imputed dividends going forward in line with or slightly better than what it has in the past.

I'm also satisfied (excluding the Covid 19 shock), the share price has built a base over the last 3 years of just over $2 so I see the risk of capital erosion as fairly modest. Stripping out head office cost and rationalizing the store network and trimming staff all makes sense to me.

Seeing as I appear to be the only dog barking up this tree I might get some more. When retail is hated is the time when the real money is made. (HLG was deeply disliked on here in 2016 at $2.70 and some canny investors did really well buying up large at that time). (Back then it was the same old story, oh this new retailer and that new retailer are coming here, multiple people reminded me many times over and the incumbent HLG are going to get smashed...but it didn't happen did it !)

[winner69]

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/341526/308395.pdf Front page is very much on trend for the times isn't it !

Normalised profit 21.5 cps and paying 17 cps will not lead to stretching of the balance sheet, in fact debt level's came down really nicely at the half year result recently.
I stick with 5 year analysis, anything further back is not especially helpful in looking forward in my view. (Others will have legacy issues with underperformance under different management and I understand their perspective but won't let it cloud my assessment of future maintainable dividends)
Pages 67-68 - 5 year summary look quite satisfactory to me from an income perspective. In an investment world starved for income this one selling consumer staples looks well capable of continuing the trend of paying reliable income going forward.

Cindy will be back for a second term to ensure the demographic are well looked after and have plenty of money for consumer staples.

I only posted that about Red Sheds to show that low sales growth rate, losing share and margin contraction is so entrenched that it hard to imagine the trend reversing.

But they do make a bob or two and there’s more to WHS than Red Sheds - Noel Leeming improving performance and Stationary hangs in there.

The Tindall Foundation will want a decent divie each year so even if all these restructure costs / redundancies are pretty hefty they’ll find the money somewhere. How much is any bodies guess.

[Beagle]

I only posted that about Red Sheds to show that low sales growth rate, losing share and margin contraction is so entrenched that it hard to imagine the trend reversing.

But they do make a bob or two and there’s more to WHS than Red Sheds - Noel Leeming improving performance and Stationary hangs in there.

The Tindall Foundation will want a decent divie each year so even if all these restructure costs / redundancies are pretty hefty they’ll find the money somewhere. How much is any bodies guess.

Don't forget they cancelled the interim dividend of 11 cps as a precautionary measure. http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/350720/319692.pdf
Debt levels were down very nicely at the half year result, down from $153m at the interim result last year to just $69m, see page 4 http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/350048/318915.pdf
I have no concerns whatsoever about their gearing level.

[winner69]

Morbid fascination with WHS still there. Know a fair about them as a great study in poor execution of strategy leading to disappointing financial results.

With so many transformations and restructures and acquisitions (and disposals) one would think a great company to invest in.

Well over the years it must have been one of the worst ‘investments’ on the NZX for ‘investors’ who want to hold for reasonable time durations.

Not many time periods where one would have got 5% plus pa returns including dividends over the years (green cells). These are outnumber where one would have got negative returns (red cells) and many periods of low returns less than 5%(yellow)

So when I think it’s time to have a go at WHS I look at this chart and so no.

Making money on WHS is buying exceptionally low like Ratkin did a while ago or just short/medium term trades on the swings.

Long term hold is a risky strategy.

But that’s all history and a load of **** .....this time is different.

Posting table just for interests sake.

[winner69]

Good to see WHS share price on a roll today ....was close to selling.

May ex bond holders putting their cash back into the company via shares

[bottomfeeder]

Morbid fascination with WHS still there. Know a fair about them as a great study in poor execution of strategy leading to disappointing financial results.

With so many transformations and restructures and acquisitions (and disposals) one would think a great company to invest in.

Well over the years it must have been one of the worst ‘investments’ on the NZX for ‘investors’ who want to hold for reasonable time durations.

Not many time periods where one would have got 5% plus pa returns including dividends over the years (green cells). These are outnumber where one would have got negative returns (red cells) and many periods of low returns less than 5%(yellow)

So when I think it’s time to have a go at WHS I look at this chart and so no.

Making money on WHS is buying exceptionally low like Ratkin did a while ago or just short/medium term trades on the swings.

Long term hold is a risky strategy.

But that’s all history and a load of **** .....this time is different.

Posting table just for interests sake.

Have to agree with you fully, competition has stifled the growth of WHS. They tried everything to change their model of price competition, but nothing worked for them. I know people who have owned shares for ages, they paid $7 per share. Their buying power is matched by many other world players, who are now in the NZ market. One day deals is an innovative strategy, but to make it worthwhile for WHS, they have to increase the volume, by more price competition, and having so many products, it just takes too long to go through the emails. The Market was brought in just 10 years too late. RIP at this SP.

[Beagle]

This time its different and Nick really will transform the company. He's a genius, just look at the photo's in the first 4 pages of the annual report...he was on trend before anyone else.

[winner69]

People criticise National for charts that Don’t represent reality

I’m disappointed that Nick actually put the % increase on the chart ....sales growth appears to be huge with that judicious use of scale.

[winner69]

This time its different and Nick really will transform the company. He's a genius, just look at the photo's in the first 4 pages of the annual report...he was on trend before anyone else.

Don’t normally look at the pictures but all I can say you must look out of place in one of the Red Sheds

[Beagle]

Don’t normally look at the pictures but all I can say you must look out of place in one of the Red Sheds

Its all good because some bloke I know tells me that we have to add diversity to the mix so I rock up there with my common as mud Holden Commondore and fit in okay.
Never used to go there when I had my S Class Mercedes...that wouldn't have worked....come back to the car park and someone would have "decorated" it for me lol

[bottomfeeder]

Nick Grayston jumped ship at Sears, when he could see the writing on the wall. I can inagine when he was employed they were gazing in dreamland "we can become as big as Sears". A bit of research woukd have shown them Sears was sinking fast.

[Beagle]

Nick Grayston jumped ship at Sears, when he could see the writing on the wall. I can inagine when he was employed they were gazing in dreamland "we can become as big as Sears". A bit of research woukd have shown them Sears was sinking fast.

I think he's doing a pretty good job of turning the ship around. Thing is even finance companies masquerading as banks are only offering 2% on new term deposit money so unless people take on board some risk they won't have much income. Take out the Covid 19 share price impact, (the market seems happy to look through Covid 19 impact, see share price reaction to RYM's mediocre result) and two things become clear.
1. The shares have built a base over the last 3 years at just over $2.
2. WHS seems capable of paying a minimum of 16 cents per share in annual fully imputed dividends, (has done for the last 5 years).

16 / 0.72 = 22.22 cps gross / 206 = 10.8% yield. If the transformation process continues and has a good effect we might see 20 cps in annual dividends.

WHS offers good exposure to consumer staples which have traditionally done okay in a recession. Cindy and Grant will keep throwing money around willy nilly...all good no worries.

[winner69]

Nick Grayston jumped ship at Sears, when he could see the writing on the wall. I can inagine when he was employed they were gazing in dreamland "we can become as big as Sears". A bit of research woukd have shown them Sears was sinking fast.

Norrice was pretty useless. Taylor was no better and what has Grayston achieved in four years plus ....nothing

Grayston turning things around for four years ....great effort mate

Warehouse doesn’t have the same relevance to kiwis like it once did ....if it did it wouldn’t continue to consistently lose share.

[winner69]

WHS into consumer staples I’m told

Would expect more than 4 stock turns if that is the case (cover for 3 months sales)

Must be heaps and heaps of rubbish nobody wants on the shelves

[Biscuit]

....... If the transformation process continues and has a good effect we might see 20 cps in annual dividends.....

I have not owned WHS for many years and would not buy them now. Years ago they were talking about "transformation". What good did it do then? What exactly do they have the potential to transform into?

[Beagle]

Norrice was pretty useless. Taylor was no better and what has Grayston achieved in four years plus ....nothing

Grayston turning things around for four years ....great effort mate

Warehouse doesn’t have the same relevance to kiwis like it once did ....if it did it wouldn’t continue to consistently lose share.

Why are you holding them then ?

[Beagle]

I have not owned WHS for many years and would not buy them now. Years ago they were talking about "transformation". What good did it do then? What exactly do they have the potential to transform into?

You're not asking the right question. The question you need to ask is this, where else can I get reliable yield of 10%+ that's safer than WHS (remembering they sell consumer staples).

Who cares, you've completely missed my income point outlined in post #3384. I suggest you have a look at term deposit rates the risky banks have on offer, most are now below 2% and then ask yourself where can I get reasonably safe high yield ?

Anecdotally, I was out and about in Auckland on Saturday to quite a few places. I have never seen so much traffic on Auckland roads on a Saturday. I think being Covid 19 free is a relevant consideration now in terms of valuing retail stocks in particular.

[winner69]

Why are you holding them then ?

In for a quick buck ....like trading a ticker code and watching the squiggly line on the chart ...fundamentals don’t matter

If I’m luck I might even still be around for that big divie ....10 cents plus what they can afford from half 2.

[Beagle]

In for a quick buck ....like trading a ticker code and watching the squiggly line on the chart ...fundamentals don’t matter

If I’m luck I might even still be around for that big divie ....10 cents plus what they can afford from half 2.

I bought for income just like I did with HLG...you should stick around mate, you might be very surprised with how the market reacts when its realises WHS can consistently pay 10%+ income. See BNZ term deposit rates here :eek2: https://www.bnz.co.nz/personal-banking/investments/rates#rates-and-fees
Which is safer, trading banks or WHS ?

[Sideshow Bob]

I simply just find The Warehouse as the most depressing shopping experience - even their new stores. Nothing attractive or enticing about them. You never seem to find quite what you want, never have enough selection, and then even that the price may not be cheaper than anywhere else. You have to go next door to Kmart/Briscoes/M10 etc to find what you were after.

Maybe I'm just having grumpy Monday?

[Biscuit]

Who cares, you've completely missed my income point outlined in post #3384. I suggest you have a look at term deposit rates the risky banks have on offer, most are now below 2% and then ask yourself where can I get reasonably safe high yield ?

Yes, I get your point regarding dividend and I have a load of money sitting in the bank not earning anything, so fair point I guess. I sold out in 2015 and have not looked at them again since. Sold out just under $3 at a loss and I notice the share price is now just over $2. Dividend alone means nothing as you know. I see a boring company that has nowhere to go that will transition itself ad infinitum until eventually it transitions into oblivion taking its shareholders with it. That's just my opinion, and it is Monday and sunday was a heavy drinking day :scared:!

[Beagle]

I get it that some people have been really disappointed with WHS in years gone by. But is it time for another look, that's the question ?


DIVIDEND DISTRIBUTIONS Ordinary dividends declared (cents per share) 17.0 16.0 16.0 16.0 16.0

Above is from 2019 annual report, five year summary of annual dividends. I posted current term deposit rates at the BNZ earlier.

People need income to live, this is a fact that is not in dispute. If not WHS at 10.8%, what do those who hold a negative view on WHS say is better ?

[winner69]

I bought for income just like I did with HLG...you should stick around mate, you might be very surprised with how the market reacts when its realises WHS can consistently pay 10%+ income. See BNZ term deposit rates here :eek2: https://www.bnz.co.nz/personal-banking/investments/rates#rates-and-fees
Which is safer, trading banks or WHS ?

You’ve caught on to my plan

Hope there’s a run by punters wanting big returns compared to risky banks,

Jeez 22 cents divie at 5% yield (heaps more than the banks) could see WHS at $4.40

Jeez that’s more than double my money ...who cares about INCOME when big gains are better

[Biscuit]

I get it that some people have been really disappointed with WHS in years gone by. But is it time for another look, that's the question ?



Above is from 2019 annual report, five year summary of annual dividends. I posted current term deposit rates at the BNZ earlier.

People need income to live, this is a fact that is not in dispute. If not WHS at 10.8%, what do those who hold a negative view on WHS say is better ?


According to a five year share price graph in Direct Broking, WHS share price has gone from just over $2.80 to about $2.10 in that period. So along with your 16c per share per annum dividend, you would have lost 12c per share capital per annum. I'm tempted to look at them more closely on the strength of your interest, Beagle, as you are pretty shrewd. But I cannot bring myself to do it! Also, I just hate companies that are "transforming" themselves. Great companies don't need to transform. Good companies should think twice before transforming, and bad companies rarely transform into anything good.

[Beagle]

You’ve caught on to my plan

Hope there’s a run by punters wanting big returns compared to risky banks,

Jeez 22 cents divie at 5% yield (heaps more than the banks) could see WHS at $4.40

Jeez that’s more than double my money ...who cares about INCOME when big gains are better

LOL - Worked an absolute treat when we both piled into HLG at $2.70 in late 2016 eh. HLG was a real dog then with no growth and heaps of new apparel retailers coming to N.Z. Most people thought we were nuts and told us so many times over lol
History never repeats with more than doubling your money on HLG like we did, must have been a fluke, what would we know ?, or maybe history does repeat :D

[winner69]

Biscuit - Warehouse transformations / restructures are needed just to stay in the game......stop the slip sliding away, not to grow profits

Stay in the game ...maintain divie ,,,,,Tindall Foundation happy ...Beagle happy

[Beagle]

According to a five year share price graph in Direct Broking, WHS share price has gone from just over $2.80 to about $2.10 in that period. So along with your 16c per share per annum dividend, you would have lost 12c per share capital per annum. I'm tempted to look at them more closely on the strength of your interest, Beagle, as you are pretty shrewd. But I cannot bring myself to do it! Also, I just hate companies that are "transforming" themselves. Great companies don't need to transform. Good companies should think twice before transforming, and bad companies rarely transform into anything good.

Fair enough, one bitten twice shy, I can certainly understand that. Fact remains though, the share price has built a bottom for over 3 years at just over $2, (Covid 19 period excluded) and dividends speak for themselves as do current term deposit rates. Fact also is nobody has told me where else I am highly likely and can reasonably safely earn a 10.8% gross dividend yield that I can earn with WHS. If they do, (I'm not holding my breath), I'll be keen to have a look.

Old brands have to reinvent themselves periodically to stay relevant. Restaurant Brands a good example of that. Many years ago almost everyone thought they were stuffed but cunning old Winner got aboard that tired old brand and make squillions...unfortunately I was one of the doubters with that one.

[winner69]

Beagle - WHS reinvent themselves to be relevant you say .....trouble is they will reinvent themselves to be what was relevant three to four years ago.

Did you note that online Red Sheds sales down 10% in H1 .....thats a sign of how good they are reinventing themselves.

Main thing is they stay in the game ....keep that divie up

[Beagle]

Gives me a bit of comfort you're on board for the ride mate...not that I need it, my Beagle nose is telling me there's a pretty good feed here and its seldom wrong.

[bottomfeeder]

Yes very dangerous predicting the success of a stock based on historical results. Interim dividend cancelled. Cancelled for a reason. Laying staff off. Since the last full Annual Report, there has been a lot of competition entered into the market. Lets see what your dividend yield will be at the next Annual Report.

[Beagle]

Cancelling dividends has been a widespread issue on the NZX and many companies did this purely as a precautionary measure.
That they are looking to drive new efficiencies is something I applaud, they are right to do this, "never waste a good crisis" even though many companies are doing exactly that.
Yes this year's annual report will show a lower dividend paid because they cancelled the interim one, like so many other companies but this is not unusual and the market has already shown it is prepared to look through mediocre annual results because of Covid 19 costs, RYM last week a good example.

Its the sustainable income going forward that I am focused on and others will be focused on when their term deposits come up for renewal and they are offered 1.5% to renew them. I see no reason why they can't go back to paying 16-17 cps per annum on a sustainable basis going forward.

Plenty of people told me HLG was stuffed because of new entrants to the market in 2016 and time proved all the naysayers wrong. WHS is a solid brand and Cindy and Grant are throwing money around like its water coming from a dam outside of Auckland. Just this morning she was talking about making sure people earning the minimum wage could afford to live a decent life. Mark my words, this is code speak for even more increases in the minimum wage and significant increases in benefit rates. The socialism hasn't even got into top gear yet, just wait until she can govern alone without the Greens or N.Z. First !

I foresee that we are about to enter a new era when Cindy and Grant make sure the WHS demographic has heaps of money for consumer staples and with a WHS in almost every part of N.Z. they are well placed to meet consumers demands for staple items.

I'll take a break from talking now...and do some more buying.

[winner69]

Stephen will ensure he himself and Tindall Foundation get a decent dividend

tindall Foundation gave away $10m last year and have committed another $12m ......lots of organisations will be in real need if these donations are cut back

Company will see them right

[RTM]

Big unemployment ahead. I would think this would hit the red sheds pretty hard.
I'll continue to watch with interest.
And yes....people are looking for yield for sure. But most prudent retirees will also have a decent chunk of cash put aside from the good days and will nibble away at this as they need.

You can't take it with you....and right now is when it might be needed.

[Panda-NZ-]

Big unemployment ahead. I would think this would hit the red sheds pretty hard.

They will take business from other more expensive retailers and GST on overseas goods is now on for under $400.

[RTM]

They will take business from other more expensive retailers and GST on overseas goods is now on for under $400.

For sure.
I think there will be quite a lot less business tho. But Ive been wrong consistently with retail. Watched Beagle etc ride HLG all the way up. Most annoying. Nevertheless.....I'll continue to watch.

[Beagle]

For sure.
I think there will be quite a lot less business tho. But Ive been wrong consistently with retail. Watched Beagle etc ride HLG all the way up. Most annoying. Nevertheless.....I'll continue to watch.

Don't watch mate, just join the dog sled team. The A Team are back and just like before with HLG, Winner and I are the lead dogs and will sniff out any trouble ahead.
Panda has the idea. All the newly unemployed will be spending on basics at WHS rather than name brands at Kathmandu, Rodd and Gunn, e.t.c. Cindy and Grant will ensure the masses of unemployed have plenty of money for the basics. Unemployment benefit rate went up $25 a week on 1 April 2020...just the first of several similar annual increases in my opinion. Never mind BLM, All lives matter will be their new socialism call and heaps of money to go around for all, why should anyone go without consumer staples in this wonderful new era of helicopter money...

[Panda-NZ-]

Don't watch mate, just join the dog sled team. The A Team are back and just like before with HLG, Winner and I are the lead dogs and will sniff out any trouble ahead.
Panda has the idea. All the newly unemployed will be spending on basics at WHS rather than name brands at Kathmandu, Rodd and Gunn, e.t.c. Cindy and Grant will ensure the masses of unemployed have plenty of money for the basics. Unemployment benefit rate went up $25 a week on 1 April 2020...just the first of several similar annual increases in my opinion. Never mind BLM, All lives matter will be their new socialism call and heaps of money to go around for all, why should anyone go without consumer staples in this wonderful new era of helicopter money...

It is $600 NZ in australia though. I would say its currently not back to where it was when it was cut decades ago and if we account for property prices in NZ.

Doubling the income "cut offs" will be helpful and provide security during this time so part time/casual work is viable.

[winner69]

Over $100 million WHS Bonds paid out yesterday

They were 5.3% pa jobs ....bit tough getting that much these days

Variation on Percy’s saying is you mY as well own the company than invest in it

So ex bonderholders should be buying WHS shares

Likely to get 10%

And as more find out about the WHS yield they could double their money as well ....win win

[Bjauck]

Over $100 million WHS Bonds paid out yesterday

They were 5.3% pa jobs ....bit tough getting that much these days

Variation on Percy’s saying is you mY as well own the company than invest in it

So ex bonderholders should be buying WHS shares

Likely to get 10%

And as more find out about the WHS yield they could double their money as well ....win win Fingers crossed hopefully in the future things may be different. However it was worth investing in the bonds rather than owning shares in this company.

Warehouse 5yr bonds fully repaid after earning 5.3% pa gross interest
Warehouse shares $2.75 five years ago, worth $2.08 today (current gross dividend ?)

Including gross dividends, sharesight calculates a pre-tax return of 1.66%pa over five years for the shares.

[Beagle]

17 cps in annual divvies fully imputed = 17 / 0.72 = 23.61 cps gross / 207 = 11.4%. Those bondholders can more than double their income, something I expect some of them will want to do.

I expect ultra low interest rates to persist for many years. Many will be aware of the acronym TINA = There is no alternative (to shares).
Get used to a new acronym TRINA = There really is no alternative. People want to live comfortably and you can't do that on national superannuation alone or investing in bank term deposits at 1.75% !

[Bjauck]

17 cps in annual divvies fully imputed = 17 / 0.72 = 23.61 cps gross / 207 = 11.4%. Those bondholders can more than double their income, something I expect some of them will want to do.... What degree of certainty do you attach to your figures?

I have not really been following WHS. Has there been a trading update since the rather sobering one in May and a dividend announcement since the interim was cancelled?

[Beagle]

A reasonable degree of certainty based on their 5 year history of dividend payments I outlined yesterday, see post #3394.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/354307 Contains updated trading commentary.
Very few companies give dividend guidance. As always a consistent dividend history is the best guide anyone can reasonably expect to get when it comes to predicting future dividends. There are no guarantees with shares.

If you want guarantees, here's the rates on Govt issued Kiwibonds https://debtmanagement.treasury.govt.nz/individual-investors/kiwi-bonds/kiwi-bond-interest-rates

[Waltzing]

its now TRINA... cnbc

[Biscuit]

A reasonable degree of certainty based on their 5 year history of dividend payments I outlined yesterday, see post #3394.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/354307 Contains updated trading commentary........

Their announcement brings back memories of when I was a shareholder. There is nothing but sadness for shareholders foreshadowed in that announcement is there? A need to "manage our costs" and run "more efficiently". Like that is a new idea? Job cuts and store closures, let the good times roll!

[Zaphod]

They will take business from other more expensive retailers and GST on overseas goods is now on for under $400.

Unfortunately the application of GST to goods under $400 isn't going to level the playing field as was pitched to us. The reality is that these goods are still cheaper to import and overseas markets have a far greater range of products to select from. There are a huge number of factors that would need to be addressed, including the CGA, to make purchasing products from local sales channels competitive.

[Bjauck]

Their announcement brings back memories of when I was a shareholder. There is nothing but sadness for shareholders foreshadowed in that announcement is there? A need to "manage our costs" and run "more efficiently". Like that is a new idea? Job cuts and store closures, let the good times roll!It seems uncertainty as a result of the Covid measures still surrounds its trading and recovery. How long will it take to being able to resume the previous level of dividend payments?

[Beagle]

If you want good income you need to look through the one-off Covid 19 costs and effect. Some people will be able to do that and reap the rewards down the track and others will see what's right in front of them with recent announcements.

[Baa_Baa]

Their announcement brings back memories of when I was a shareholder. There is nothing but sadness for shareholders foreshadowed in that announcement is there? A need to "manage our costs" and run "more efficiently". Like that is a new idea? Job cuts and store closures, let the good times roll!

A long history of getting smaller faster than getting better. There's a reason why companies pay marginally higher dividends, similar to bonds that pay higher interest, it's risk. Anyone willing to accept risk of their capital on a WHS sustained dividend might want to look more deeply into the historical share price performance. I suppose if one could be bothered, it can be modelled whether the dividends paid exceeded the capital value lost, over time.

For moi, due to Beagles barking I've had a decent look into WHS now, in case the story had changed. But unlike him who thinks the beneficiaries will all rush out and spend their meagre income, I think the opposite in the current economic climate with a "deep recession" likely, that anything retail is more than just a risk, it's a gamble.

Glth

[Bjauck]

If you want good income you need to look through the one-off Covid 19 costs and effect. Some people will be able to do that and reap the rewards down the track and others will see what's right in front of them with recent announcements. I understand that. It depends to what extent these are one-off effects and the extent to which there will be longer lasting economic effects and fundamental change in habits and structures in response to the epidemic (and future epidemics?)

[Biscuit]

.....I suppose if one could be bothered, it can be modelled whether the dividends paid exceeded the capital value lost, over time........

I held for a few years, finally selling out completely five years ago. Bought because they looked like they might be moving onto a better track but then they didn't. As I remember, the dividends over the years exactly cancelled out the (my) capital loss. I know some on here at the time, held for dividends and said worked for them. Whether or not it works would depend on picking them up cheap, something I apparently failed to do.

[Beagle]

I understand that. It depends to what extent these are one-off effects and the extent to which there will be longer lasting economic effects and fundamental change in habits and structures in response to the epidemic (and future epidemics?) Excerpt
Compared to previous large downturns, like the recessions in the 1990s or the Global Financial Crisis, the fall in confidence this time has been moderate so far. That's likely to reflect New Zealand's success in limiting the spread of the virus and the earlier than anticipated easing in lockdown restrictions."

Consumer staples perform well in a recession. Consumer confidence much better than expected paywalled article https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12340192

In effect many have shifted from expecting a great depression at the early stages of Covid 19 to now just expecting a deep recession, (myself included).

If you're worried about future pandemics then you maybe you should completely avoid the tourism and retail sectors and stick with the power companies for yield. Everyone needs power, even in lockdown.

[winner69]

WHS appointed Renee Mateparae as a Future Director last August ...giving the rising stars of business some experience I Board Activities.

Renee an Agile guru at Spark. I’m glad that the older heaps more experienced directors must have listened to her when she told them Agile was really working in Spark.

Nick should be given the boot ...been there too long and his meddling got nowhere ...maybe Renee could be a good replacement to earn the big bucks,

when Agile saves them a few millions things will be looking good at WHS and the share price will follow.

[traineeinvestor]

Retail and tourism haven't made my shopping list for a while now but when a hound with an acute sense of smell starts baying at the scent, it's time to don the reading glasses and pull out the abacus.

After reading the most recent annual and interim report, the associated presentations and a full catalogue of market updates and other notices I decided it's time to head to the local wine shop to clear my head and ponder a few pre-prandial takeaways:

1. over the last 12 months WHS had generated a lot of cash (enough to repay the bonds which matured this month) by essentially leaning on their suppliers – the payables have gone up a lot – and I have to wonder if that is going to reverse itself at some stage

2. they have operations in a number of overseas countries, some of which have been hard hit by the virus, and in spite of a number of statements about supply chains I'm still unclear on whether supplies have been affected – either in terms of getting goods on to the shelves in NZ and the cost of doing so and, if so, by how much

3. if there is any guidance on the costs of right-sizeing the business they were well hidden – I'm expecting some non-recurring expenses in the second half of the year but will need to consult my Magic-8 Ball to know how material these will be. At some stage I should go back further and see if these sorts of "non-recurring" items have a habit of recurring

4. in spite of WHS releasing at least 5 trading updates (or similar) post cancellation of the interim dividend, my NZ broker has not released an updated research report since mid-March. This suggests that they may also be having difficulty getting their heads around these issues. And, yes, I appreciate that at this time forecasts of any kind involve even more guesswork than usual

5. the balance sheet looks quite strong, so much so that I would be astonished if the directors felt the need to do one of those value destructive placings that seem to be all the rage at the moment

[winner69]

Sometimes we get fooled by the headlines and think that the sky is falling in and punters will stop shopping because we are in a deep recession and it’s all woe is me stuff. What we tend to forget is that while some punters will be affected by all this for the vast majority life goes on as usual.

Maybe looking at what happened around the GFC might give us some insights. Also worth noting NZ was already in recession before the GFC was announced and then in 2011 we had quakes in Chch that impacted activity across the country.

Chart is changes in core retail sales as per Stats NZ.

Sales were only down on pcp in 2 quarters and on an annual basis did not go negative. Overall consumers were pretty resilient. We could say worst retail says just stayed flat for some periods and didn’t grow.

But this time could be different and the sky really is falling in.

[Beagle]

Thanks Winner, that's a very encouraging image. Even when consumer spending did drop a little bit at the depth's of the GFC, it was only a little wee drop and quickly recovered. Proves that consumers keep needing all sorts of consumer staples and basics no matter what the economic conditions.
No worries for WHS and others selling the basics but I would think there's plenty for high end European car dealers to be worried about at the moment.

[Baa_Baa]

Thanks Winner, that's a very encouraging image. Even when consumer spending did drop a little bit at the depth's of the GFC, it was only a little wee drop and quickly recovered. Proves that consumers keep needing all sorts of consumer staples and basics no matter what the economic conditions.
No worries for WHS and others selling the basics but I would think there's plenty for high end European car dealers to be worried about at the moment.

I'm not sure how you can take that inference, what I see is in Jun07 the % drops off a cliff, falling to between -1% to 1% for two years! And never fully recovered to pre-drop levels (although data is only out to 2014).

[jg8512]

Sometimes we get fooled by the headlines and think that the sky is falling in and punters will stop shopping because we are in a deep recession and it’s all woe is me stuff. What we tend to forget is that while some punters will be affected by all this for the vast majority life goes on as usual.

Maybe looking at what happened around the GFC might give us some insights. Also worth noting NZ was already in recession before the GFC was announced and then in 2011 we had quakes in Chch that impacted activity across the country.

Chart is changes in core retail sales as per Stats NZ.

Sales were only down on pcp in 2 quarters and on an annual basis did not go negative. Overall consumers were pretty resilient. We could say worst retail says just stayed flat for some periods and didn’t grow.

But this time could be different and the sky really is falling in.

interesting post Winner. But is COVID the same, a smaller, or a larger hit than the GFC??
Presumably much larger now (hence a massive govt fiscal and monetary stimulus to try and ward it off). But that stimulus will wear off ... and then we still have lots of closed hospitality businesses, much fewer tourists, who knows where agriculture commodity prices end up (trade restrictions from a trade war?), and in a year or three much higher government debt and therefore much higher taxes (in many flavours) to pay for all the govt stimulus spending (and ongoing deficits)! Isn't that a much uglier outlook for consumer spending than GFC when our underlying post GFC economy was ok (but some dodgy lenders failed, and commodity prices went south for a while before recovering).?

[winner69]

interesting post Winner. But is COVID the same, a smaller, or a larger hit than the GFC??
Presumably much larger now (hence a massive govt fiscal and monetary stimulus to try and ward it off). But that stimulus will wear off ... and then we still have lots of closed hospitality businesses, much fewer tourists, who knows where agriculture commodity prices end up (trade restrictions from a trade war?), and in a year or three much higher government debt and therefore much higher taxes (in many flavours) to pay for all the govt stimulus spending (and ongoing deficits)! Isn't that a much uglier outlook for consumer spending than GFC when our underlying post GFC economy was ok (but some dodgy lenders failed, and commodity prices went south for a while before recovering).?

Yep, probably the sky is falling.

Lesson from Henny Penny / Chicken Little is to be courageous. So jpg if you believe the sky is falling be courageous - how you going to cope?

[jg8512]

Yep, probably the sky is falling.

Lesson from Henny Penny / Chicken Little is to be courageous. So jpg if you believe the sky is falling be courageous - how you going to cope?

When investing I'm trying to be smart, rather than courageous.
GLAH

[Beagle]

Yep, probably the sky is falling.

Lesson from Henny Penny / Chicken Little is to be courageous. So jpg if you believe the sky is falling be courageous - how you going to cope?

We've had no luck recruiting others to help us on our journey with this one. Going to be really hard work old dogs like us being the lead Husky's and pulling the Warehouse dog sled on our own...but no worries I have recruited 3 new members to help https://www.trademe.co.nz/pets-animals/dogs/dogs-for-sale/other/auction-2665074087.htm?rsqid=f8d4963a78504bf895cc5e46c6f2f 391-002 Different colours so we can tell them apart :cool: (Remember last time it was just you and I pulling the HLG dog sled, crikey was that rewarding or what !!)

[Waltzing]

i have to rate the Brilliant MR B. While i would love to follow the sled i am wondering what WHS does that is going to grow its NPAT? In the light of most chains closing stores and the recession is really yet to start.

[Snow Leopard]

Oh my cat! So this is where Beagle is focusing now.

Poor WHS they do not deserve this!


Current value of WHS: damn close to the current share price....

....and nearly as safe as cash under the dog basket blanket.

https://images.freeimages.com/images/premium/previews/1774/17749630-sad-beagle-puppy-in-the-basket.jpg

[winner69]

Nick paid 35 times the median wage of all ‘team members’

Suppose he can afford the small loss he’s made on the 20,000 shares he bought at $2.90 a few months ago.

He really has to go.

[stoploss]

Nick paid 35 times the median wage of all ‘team members’

Suppose he can afford the small loss he’s made on the 20,000 shares he bought at $2.90 a few months ago.

He really has to go.

There have been numerous CEO's through this place on big money , each time with a different turn around strategy .
The only "out " here is if another big box retailer turns up , or one of the big supermarket chains ( they already got denied by the takeovers commission or whatever they call themselves in a previous attempt) has a crack.

[winner69]

Shareholder equity $350m odd ...with debt total invested capital say $500m

Make $80m after tax on that

That’s a pretty healthy return on capital

[Biscuit]

Oh my cat! So this is where Beagle is focusing now.

Poor WHS they do not deserve this! ...


I don't think it is a problem for the WHS dog to be hounded by the Beagle, its more likely a problem for our K9 friend that he has sniffed the wind too deeply and is so lustily chasing a tired, old, flea bitten, mutt of a company

[Beagle]

Oh my cat! So this is where Beagle is focusing now.

Poor WHS they do not deserve this!


Current value of WHS: damn close to the current share price....

....and nearly as safe as cash under the dog basket blanket.

https://images.freeimages.com/images/premium/previews/1774/17749630-sad-beagle-puppy-in-the-basket.jpg

LOL my nearly extinct furry Himalayan mountain friend. You be careful up there in the mountains...word is the Indians and Chinese are not playing nice...wouldn't want you caught in the crossfire. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/16/india-says-20-soldiers-killed-in-clash-along-contested-border-with-china.html

[Beagle]

I don't think it is a problem for the WHS dog to be hounded by the Beagle, its more likely a problem for our K9 friend that he has sniffed the wind too deeply and is so lustily chasing a tired, old, flea bitten, mutt of a company

The reason they use Beagle's at the airport is that when they indicate on some food in someone's suitcase they are almost never wrong. :p

[Biscuit]

The reason they use Beagle's at the airport is that when they indicate on some food in someone's suitcase they are almost never wrong. :p

Well, you may well get the last laugh on this one. I'm tempted to buy $5K worth just for the laugh if it works out. Probably can't really lose much on that.

[Beagle]

Well, you may well get the last laugh on this one. I'm tempted to buy $5K worth just for the laugh if it works out. Probably can't really lose much on that.

TRINA. Disc: I only have a modest "nursery" sized stake at this stage. If things unfold as I expect I will be happy to double down in due course.

[bottomfeeder]

Well, you may well get the last laugh on this one. I'm tempted to buy $5K worth just for the laugh if it works out. Probably can't really lose much on that.

Yes me too everything else is up so what else can I put the excess cash into. Bit worried the NTA is only 65 cents. Just 2k shares. Have to have skin in the game to really follow progress with interest. Hmm what do I get for free now that I am a shareholder.

[Biscuit]

Yes me too everything else is up so what else can I put the excess cash into. Bit worried the NTA is only 65 cents. Just 2k shares. Have to have skin in the game to really follow progress with interest. Hmm what do I get for free now that I am a shareholder.

Me too, just so I can be on the dog sled team (1700 at $2.11). Bought about 2 minutes ago and its already up one cent! Way to go, this baby rocks!

Disc; Hold (Dog Sled Team Beagle)

[Biscuit]

I see on their share price graph they started to take off in 2019 before being whacked by covid. What was behind that rise?

Discl: Hold (Dog Sled Team Beagle)

[macduffy]

Yes me too everything else is up so what else can I put the excess cash into. Bit worried the NTA is only 65 cents. Just 2k shares. Have to have skin in the game to really follow progress with interest. Hmm what do I get for free now that I am a shareholder.

A few years ago when I held WHS it was customary to receive a discount voucher for a couple of days' shopping before Christmas. Unfortunately, most of the items we were interested in were either already discounted or not eligible for discount, or so it seemed.

[samjaynz]

A few years ago when I held WHS it was customary to receive a discount voucher for a couple of days' shopping before Christmas. Unfortunately, most of the items we were interested in were either already discounted or not eligible for discount, or so it seemed.

I recall the good old days of setting up the annual shareholder discount 'EDM' (email campaign) for the part of the Warehouse Group I used to be an online marketing manager for.

I seem to recall the discounts being a bit on the 'lean' side for shareholders ... always surprised me that they weren't better rewarded with discounts.

[Beagle]

Welcome aboard. Shares did very nicely in the lead up too, and especially after last year's annual result announcement https://www.nzx.com/announcements/341526
Half year result this year in March was also a cracker, see page 4 http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/WHS/350048/318915.pdf
Such a shame it was released just a few days before the Covid 19 lockdown.
Many on here have historical issues with WHS and I get that, I really do. But objectively, their numbers were actually very good in the lead up to Covid and they have a five year track record of paying at least 16 cps annually in dividends, (excl Covid effect on the most recent one).

On the whole look through Covid thing I think things are pretty good for WHS. Good income stock but I am not expecting to make any quick gains so strap your harness's on and lets start this journey...and seeing as we can't go overseas what about trying something new in N.Z. :) http://underdognz.co.nz/

[ratkin]

Do not understand all the hate towards the Warehouse, rather own their shares than any other listed NZ retailers. As long as buy them in times of weakness seems very little downside

[Beagle]

People hate stocks that dish them out serious pain and some people have issues with its long term performance and won't touch it again, which is fair enough, (e.g. in 2007 it was as high as $7.30). I entirely understand where they are coming from, once bitten twice shy, (I have that as one of my key investment guidelines as well).

I have never been an investor before so don't carry any legacy baggage so can see quite objectively its built a solid base over the last 3 years at just over $2 and has a credible track record of dividends over the last 5 years. Very good income stock and I feel safer in a recession with WHS than any of the other retailers.

I am fairly sure HLG will come out of this recession okay but they are giving so little information away in terms of how they are managing the business its incredibly hard to get a read on whether late $3's if fair value or not.

[Waltzing]

i can see where MR B is coming from here. but i wonder how WHS will fair in the provinces. will wait for an update and put on the whatch list... never go into the red sheds...

[+++++]

Marketing wise pushing the "NZ national discount store / retailer. Support NZ business" side of things I think would be good obviously. Classically building on strengths and cutting losses regarding ranging be good. They have some okay stuff. Love to see a stronger level of upkeep / merchandising and more options in there better quality products.

[+++++]

I've got the odd H&S Merino T / thermal from them and socks here and there. Some of there outdoor & trade gear is decent enough. Very competitively priced. Maybe drop the terrible shoes and other junk, focus on key categories and build stronger standards within budget. Give the whole thing a bit of a face lift. Also invest in quality staff.

[winner69]

QBE withdraws trade credit cover for suppliers to Myer and David Jones

From SMH:
QBE said it had recently completed a review of the retail industry which had highlighted the department store sector as a "higher risk category". The company said it believed the two businesses would struggle with the "reality of unsustainable operating models and financial structures".

[percy]

QBE must employ very slow analysts W69.
We could have told them this a very very long time ago.

[Beagle]

i can see where MR B is coming from here. but i wonder how WHS will fair in the provinces. will wait for an update and put on the whatch list... never go into the red sheds...

I think they will do just fine in the provinces. That's the thing, they have over 200 stores throughout the country so are very well placed to meet the need for consumer basics for all Kiwi's.

[winner69]

QBE must employ very slow analysts W69.
We could have told them this a very very long time ago.

That was how I thought when I read the article

[winner69]

Rave review of the Reject Shop TRS in Aussie

Maybe heaps to be made from cheap stuff ....but Reject has lots of smaller stores v Red big boxes

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/the-reject-shop-stocks-could-be-worth-3-billion-soon/news-story/dfc8d314beb61f8622188325b9fc3241

[percy]

Rave review of the Reject Shop TRS in Aussie

Maybe heaps to be made from cheap stuff ....but Reject has lots of smaller stores v Red big boxes

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/the-reject-shop-stocks-could-be-worth-3-billion-soon/news-story/dfc8d314beb61f8622188325b9fc3241

Looks to be a lot of future rave profits already built into TRS's share price.
eps negative 62.1
PE....negative 12.05
Dividend yield 0%.
Interesting noting their share price is half it was 10 years ago.

[winner69]

Warehouse group sales booming

Everybody wants to shop there ...good stuff

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/355968

[percy]

Warehouse group sales booming

Everybody wants to shop there ...good stuff

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/355968

Yes/No.
Very cautious out look which I share.Looks as though it will be a difficult Christmas and a very long hard 2021 year.
Online "logistics" needs a lot of work.I guess having the revenue means they can get it right.At this stage 11.8% of total sales means a lot more growth will be, and is, avaliable.I expect they should see this channel more than double in the next year or two,and I can see no reason why it should not be more profitable than their stores.In fact properly done it should be a lot more profitable..

[Beagle]

Trading update looks quite satisfactory to me.

[BlackPeter]

Yes/No.
Very cautious out look which I share.Looks as though it will be a difficult Christmas and a very long hard 2021 year.
Online "logistics" needs a lot of work.I guess having the revenue means they can get it right.At this stage 11.8% of total sales means a lot more growth will be, and is, avaliable.I expect they should see this channel more than double in the next year or two,and I can see no reason why it should not be more profitable than their stores.In fact properly done it should be a lot more profitable..

I would agree with that. Sort of funny recent experience - my old trustworthy printer not anymore supported by the latest windows screw up. Decided to buy a new printer (hey, the old one is more than 10 years old) ... and Warehouse Stationary had according to their web page a reasonable candidate on offer (marked as "in store"). I ordered and waited for the promised delivery within 2 to 4 business days.

Funnily enough 8 days after the order (and payment) I get another email from them:



Dear ....

Unfortunately we've not been able to locate the following items just yet.

We’ve got our best people looking through our stores around the country for you. This can sometimes add a few additional days to the delivery and we apologise for the delay. We'll get back to you with an update within 5 days.

...


I guess seriously - if they need to have "their best people looking through their stores around the country" for the whereabouts of a printer they already sold over their website (i.e. they have no clue where it might be and it is lots of effort to find it), than absolutely - they will have to put a lot of effort into improving their logistics. Maybe start with implementing a simple ERP system?

Just wondering - or does anybody think they lied at me and they never had this printer they sold and took money for in the first place?

PS: I uninstalled my latest windows update and my old printer works again, i.e. quite relaxed to see the story unfold - otherwise the warehouse would have now a really angry customer ...

[MarineSalvage]

I think the update was as good as we could expect - the next couple of months will be telling though. I'm happy to hold at this point

[ananda77]

A thing that really happened:

Ordered 2 items online. When the email confirmed the items are to be picked up, picked the items from the shelve, went to the check-out, showed the cashier the invoice and the cashier waved me right through.

A few weeks later, an email reminder arrived to pick up the items. I confirmed that the items were already picked up.

A few weeks later, another email reminder to please pick up the items...this time a $5 bonus card eas offered on pick up. Went to the Warehouse, the collect operator could not find the package. So the operator picked up the 2 items from the shelve and handed them over.

Then I made sure that the operator removed the 2 items from the computer. Once the operator confirmed, I just then handed the two items back and told them that I had picked them up months ago.

Operator clearly confused, but handed me a $10 discount card...I am honest, butI do not reject a gift.

In the end, got the 2 items for a 45% discount.

For the Warehouse sake I hope this was a once off situation.

[BlackPeter]

I would agree with that. Sort of funny recent experience - my old trustworthy printer not anymore supported by the latest windows screw up. Decided to buy a new printer (hey, the old one is more than 10 years old) ... and Warehouse Stationary had according to their web page a reasonable candidate on offer (marked as "in store"). I ordered and waited for the promised delivery within 2 to 4 business days.

Funnily enough 8 days after the order (and payment) I get another email from them:



I guess seriously - if they need to have "their best people looking through their stores around the country" for the whereabouts of a printer they already sold over their website (i.e. they have no clue where it might be and it is lots of effort to find it), than absolutely - they will have to put a lot of effort into improving their logistics. Maybe start with implementing a simple ERP system?

Just wondering - or does anybody think they lied at me and they never had this printer they sold and took money for in the first place?
...


Actually - I have to report now that their product delivery process as well as their online customer service is atrocious. They didn't come back to me to tell me that their "best people" weren't able to find the printer I bought and paid for, they just clandestinely refunded my money back into my credit card account without further information. I was still waiting for delivery and called today their "customer service" to find out that they refunded the money and closed the order (without informing me about this fact).

Funny thing is - they still offer the same printer on their web page marked as "in stock". Apparently they do not deliver the products they have in stock to their customers, and the organisation which does did not have stock and threw my order out of their queue.

After having talked today to three of their customer reps I can confirm as well that the warehouse is happy to lie to their customers (when I asked whether their email lied to me, they said "it's just an automated email", which seems to make it o.k.) and, no, they don't see a reason to improve their processes ....

Will drive now into town to buy a printer ... but for sure, it won't be a printer from the warehouse or of any of its affiliated businesses.

Better AVOID ...

[Sideshow Bob]

A thing that really happened:

Ordered 2 items online. When the email confirmed the items are to be picked up, picked the items from the shelve, went to the check-out, showed the cashier the invoice and the cashier waved me right through.

A few weeks later, an email reminder arrived to pick up the items. I confirmed that the items were already picked up.

A few weeks later, another email reminder to please pick up the items...this time a $5 bonus card eas offered on pick up. Went to the Warehouse, the collect operator could not find the package. So the operator picked up the 2 items from the shelve and handed them over.

Then I made sure that the operator removed the 2 items from the computer. Once the operator confirmed, I just then handed the two items back and told them that I had picked them up months ago.

Operator clearly confused, but handed me a $10 discount card...I am honest, butI do not reject a gift.

In the end, got the 2 items for a 45% discount.

For the Warehouse sake I hope this was a once off situation.

I recently got a reminder to pick-up my daughters bike which we ordered for Click & Collect via T7. But we had picked it up 2 weeks before (and then the pedal literally just 'fell off' on the very first ride - so much for safety!!).

Previous "purchase" ordered something off T7, order confirmed, money taken - then advised out of stock. No assistance with a replacement/alternative.

Previous purchase to that at T7, again out of stock and customer service was rude and arrogant.

Either very unlucky or a pattern emerging......

[traineeinvestor]

Funny thing is - they still offer the same printer on their web page marked as "in stock". Apparently they do not deliver the products they have in stock to their customers, and the organisation which does did not have stock and threw my order out of their queue.



Well, there could be some entertainment value in continuing to order it and then sending the directors a letter detailing your experiences.:eek2:

[Beagle]

Actually - I have to report now that their product delivery process as well as their online customer service is atrocious. They didn't come back to me to tell me that their "best people" weren't able to find the printer I bought and paid for, they just clandestinely refunded my money back into my credit card account without further information. I was still waiting for delivery and called today their "customer service" to find out that they refunded the money and closed the order (without informing me about this fact).

Funny thing is - they still offer the same printer on their web page marked as "in stock". Apparently they do not deliver the products they have in stock to their customers, and the organisation which does did not have stock and threw my order out of their queue.

After having talked today to three of their customer reps I can confirm as well that the warehouse is happy to lie to their customers (when I asked whether their email lied to me, they said "it's just an automated email", which seems to make it o.k.) and, no, they don't see a reason to improve their processes ....

Will drive now into town to buy a printer ... but for sure, it won't be a printer from the warehouse or of any of its affiliated businesses.

Better AVOID ...

As a small shareholder I am disappointed to hear this and my own experience of delivery under lockdown was well and truly sub par including really sub par communication when I laid a complaint for late delivery. It would appear to me a major shake-up is required in their online services. Lots of dead wood lazy and incompetent staff need to be cleaned out by a competent manager and replaced with those with a polite can-do "the customer is always right" attitude. I have a very small nursery holding and won't be adding to it until I see how the financial results look and quiz the directors at the annual meeting on their online staff performance.

[Bjauck]

Actually - I have to report now that their product delivery process as well as their online customer service is atrocious. They didn't come back to me to tell me that their "best people" weren't able to find the printer I bought and paid for, they just clandestinely refunded my money back into my credit card account without further information. ....
That is a terrible experience. What a shocking waste of Human Resources if their "best people" were deployed to hunt down a stock item. Presumably their "worst people" are in management and inventory control and software implementation?

Of course the "best people" line was the load of baloney they deploy to fob off unhappy customers. They have obviously polished that skill as a priority.

I have had a few comparatively minor unhappy "shopping experiences" with them over the years, so my custom goes elsewhere these days. Even if what I buy costs a few bob more!

[macduffy]

To my surprise I'm able to report a positive experience with a company I don't much admire nor have invested in for many years. My wife decided to buy me a heated throw - rather like an electric blanket but used as one would a rug. The local Warehouse was said to stock them but had sold out by the time my wife got around to the actual buying! Helpful staff offered to check around other stores to obtain one. Wife paid accordingly - big mistake says I. A few days later a phone call confessed that the search had been unsuccessful; refund necessitated a return trip; refund effected; very junior staff member offered to resume the search; search successful, item located at a small outlet "up North"; transaction completed; happy customer.

:)

[Beagle]

What a lovely "warm" experience, (sorry couldn't resist) ;) Didn't even know there was such a thing. Now I want one !

[winner69]

Will drive now into town to buy a printer ... but for sure, it won't be a printer from the warehouse or of any of its affiliated businesses.

Better AVOID ...

Jeez driving into town. .....risky. .....watch out for escapees and the virus .....take care bp

[Biscuit]

....I have a very small nursery holding and won't be adding to it until I see how the financial results look and quiz the directors at the annual meeting on their online staff performance.

Ahem, excuse me ... Sir ... the dog sled team have...ahhh... asked me to (shuffling of paws) ... on their behalf ... express some... ahhh ... concern about the ....ammm.... quality of up-ramping recently.

Discl: hold (dog sled team Beagle)

[Getty]

much more of this, and you will be chomped on like a dog biscuit...

[Beagle]

Ahem, excuse me ... Sir ... the dog sled team have...ahhh... asked me to (shuffling of paws) ... on their behalf ... express some... ahhh ... concern about the ....ammm.... quality of up-ramping recently.

Discl: hold (dog sled team Beagle)

:blush: This one is giving me "paws" for thought. I suggest the team take a break from the mushing and just sit around and eat some dog biscuts. Might be a long journey with this one...might need a lot of patience. While we're waiting we could see how our mates are getting on https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7504726/

I remember reading that book as a young pup at school...really enjoyed it and the movie is great too.

[Beagle]

Trading update looks quite satisfactory to me.

To be honest I actually thought the trading update was very good. Company is cautious on the outlook which seems quite a prudent approach to me.
Even if their online system needs some serious work the company seems to be doing okay to me. The thing with cheapish dog's...they have potential !
There's... that's a reasonable and accurate statement that will keep the team happy for a while :)

[Beagle]

much more of this, and you will be chomped on like a dog biscuit...

LOL I see what you did there :)

[Getty]

you must ba a seeing eye dog...

[Panda-NZ-]

You can't really except five star treatment from a discount retailer. I'm happy paying low prices and being able to see the items in store.

Obviously the shortfalls should be fixed, within reason, and hopefully there is a more useful online aspect saying that. Though it's mostly been fine for me.

[Biscuit]

.....The thing with cheapish dog's...they have potential !
There's... that's a reasonable and accurate statement that will keep the team happy for a while :)

Ah.. thanks chief ... I'll take it back to the guys. I'm reminded of an old adage about deceased horses and flogging that maybe also could be applied to dogs (companies not beagles). I'm thinking with this company that it might not be so much a race between dog sleds as a race between dividend payments and capital depreciation. Still, we need as you say to stay positive. This sled is not pulling itself!

[Beagle]

Ah.. thanks chief ... I'll take it back to the guys. I'm reminded of an old adage about deceased horses and flogging that maybe also could be applied to dogs (companies not beagles). I'm thinking with this company that it might not be so much a race between dog sleds as a race between dividend payments and capital depreciation. Still, we need as you say to stay positive. This sled is not pulling itself!

I consulted with the other dog sled team leader and Buck reckons we're still on the right track. He reckons all dog sled team members need to buck up their attitude, nothing any good was ever achieved without a bit of tenacity. https://www.imdb.com/video/vi264945433?ref_=tt_pv_vi_aiv_1
He also said to stay close, Dog's aren't called man's best friend without very good reasons :)

[King1212]

I will buy in if they close or consolidate all the stores....close the non performing one n concentrate on the marketplace

[percy]

Had to pick up something for a daughter this afternoon from Wharehouse Stationery,South City .They were doing the business.Humming.

[Panda-NZ-]

I will buy in if they close or consolidate all the stores....close the non performing one n concentrate on the marketplace

They are probably one of the only competitive physical stores out there now and can get some benefit from customers who prefer that sort of experience.

The online market is directly competing with pbtech, amazon etc.

[King1212]

Big announcement coming tomorrow according to NZ herald

Would see warehouse group moving to online store.

Recent bought thing from the marketplace....what a great deal....! Won't be able to get it the same price at the store.same product....but almost $100 cheaper. Delivered within 2 days...!

[winner69]

Big announcement coming tomorrow according to NZ herald

Agile the right thing to do

But many people will lose their jobs .....as always people (staff) are just another dispensable commodity ...in spite of company platitudes like ‘our store team members are central to our ongoing success .....acknowledges the importance we place on our team members," etc etc etc

But good for shareholders .....suppose I should be sorry for the many joining the dole queue and hoping their families don’t go hungry....but then again they’ve been a good wicket for years and a drag on profits and it’s a tough world these days so on your bike.

[Panda-NZ-]

Recent bought thing from the marketplace....what a great deal....! Won't be able to get it the same price at the store.same product....but almost $100 cheaper. Delivered within 2 days...!

Interesting haven't tried using the MP before. may have to take it a bit more seriously. I was a fan of shopping in store myself and didn't have a problem with it.

[winner69]

TheMarket costing them a small fortune ....going to lose close to $20m in F20

Suppose you got to invest big up front to make a fortune latter on.

But one needs to question their execution ability ...never made anything really work ...Noel Leeming an exception

[King1212]

Yeah master winner.... though market place in loss but once it is running...then the cost of savings is tremendous. Paying lease.....extra staffs...powers .....etc.

Marketplace can run with a central warehousing...one north n one south island....keep only good performing stores open.

[winner69]

Yeah master winner.... though market place in loss but once it is running...then the cost of savings is tremendous. Paying lease.....extra staffs...powers .....etc.

Marketplace can run with a central warehousing...one north n one south island....keep only good performing stores open.

Good to see you falling in love here your majesty

WHS needs all the love they can get ....Aotearoa needs the WHS ....an Agile Warehouse.

[winner69]

Good stuff for beagle at TheMarket

https://themarket.com/nz/p/nanoblock-beagle/4603-4972825209455


https://themarket.com/nz/p/antics-soft-touch-beagle-24cm/4603-799439912847

[King1212]

Classic....but.... careful...don't let your mate mcduffy knows...he or she will mark off topic.... jealousy eh...

[Ogg]

Be interesting to see what is announced tomorrow.

Looks like they're doubling down on store closures and investing more online.

If Kogan can get to $2b market cap on nothing but fluff then you would think that WHS has the chance to actually make something happen.

They've always been a little behind the 8-ball when it comes to online. They were making so much on foot traffic that they always ignored online. Times have changed.

The bones and foundations are there. Can they execute this new strategy?

Could be a tech type rally on this stock. Question is when is the right time to jump and broad.

Need to break the unions and clean out the closet more first. Hire more young tech savvy people.

The Market looks good. Need more of that and less of the large-cold-empty big stores.

On my watchlist.

[King1212]

Oz has 25m people....NZ has 5m people.... so kogan is on lead

[ratkin]

Interesting haven't tried using the MP before. may have to take it a bit more seriously. I was a fan of shopping in store myself and didn't have a problem with it.

Shocking delivery times from overseas sites at the moment, not a bad time to start buying local.
The big problem I see is the poor range of goods. Have been looking to buy Pastels and coloured pencils etc (artist quality) and it almost impossible without using overseas sites.
Places like warehouse stationary etc always seem to cater to the tat side of the market, quality products are thin on the ground.

[MarineSalvage]

WHS been underdone for a long time, generations of mediocre management and lost opportunities... every so often there is a glimmer of hope though

[tga_trader]

Less than a year after the union held demonstrations and 'won' the living wage for staff they're looking at mass job losses. Is this an indictment of mass handouts rather than promoting benefits for those that earn it? Perhaps a warning to other sectors to be careful what you wish for.
I certainly didn't see a single increase in the quality / productivity of the staff since they got the pay bump. And it's particularly demoralising for staff in Warehouse Stationery stores, like the one here in Tauranga, where their store are combined within The Warehouse, dealing with the same customers, yet not earning the same money.
It's unfortunate for the staff that do work hard, and do deserve to be there, that it's totally beyond their control.

[Balance]

Less than a year after the union held demonstrations and 'won' the living wage for staff they're looking at mass job losses. Is this an indictment of mass handouts rather than promoting benefits for those that earn it? Perhaps a warning to other sectors to be careful what you wish for.
I certainly didn't see a single increase in the quality / productivity of the staff since they got the pay bump. And it's particularly demoralising for staff in Warehouse Stationery stores, like the one here in Tauranga, where their store are combined within The Warehouse, dealing with the same customers, yet not earning the same money.
It's unfortunate for the staff that do work hard, and do deserve to be there, that it's totally beyond their control.

If raising the minimum wage or providing a living wage is such a simple solution to eradicating poverty and raise living standards in NZ, the government should just increase it to $50 an hour and we will all live in paradise on earth.

[MarineSalvage]

very true... for those of us old enough to remember the Mercury Theatre actors all protesting for higher wages... they got them but then the Theatre went bust...
Less than a year after the union held demonstrations and 'won' the living wage for staff they're looking at mass job losses. Is this an indictment of mass handouts rather than promoting benefits for those that earn it? Perhaps a warning to other sectors to be careful what you wish for.
I certainly didn't see a single increase in the quality / productivity of the staff since they got the pay bump. And it's particularly demoralising for staff in Warehouse Stationery stores, like the one here in Tauranga, where their store are combined within The Warehouse, dealing with the same customers, yet not earning the same money.
It's unfortunate for the staff that do work hard, and do deserve to be there, that it's totally beyond their control.

[winner69]

If raising the minimum wage or providing a living wage is such a simple solution to eradicating poverty and raise living standards in NZ, the government should just increase it to $50 an hour and we will all live in paradise on earth.


Even that wouldn’t be enough for some

[winner69]

With the workers remaining likely to be paid less Nick could will be earning more than 40 times the median wage of all workers

One thing Nick hasn’t understood in the years he has been in charge is that online isn’t going to save The Warehouse ..just good talking about ‘omnichannel marketing’ ....he’s useless.

[Panda-NZ-]

They removed some costs from their physical stores which I think is a good move. Agile is the spark way and it works for other companies. Maybe the best thing is to wait and see how it works

[Beagle]

Capitalism at work as intended. Staff want higher wages, they have to work harder and smarter to earn them.