WHS - Warehouse Group

[stoploss]

Dicksmith have good store locations IMO, I think that is somewhat of a positive if they can buy it for peanuts:)
They can buy the business for peanuts , but the store locations will come with costly Rent/ leases .Unless these could be negotiated down considerably it makes retail hard to turn a profit from those High st locations .... Hence the number of failures with clothing companies etc recently in retail .

[LAC]

So what would the current leases be worth if nobody buys DS? I would think the Landlords will take much bigger losses short term if DS close shop, wont they?

[winner69]

So what would the current leases be worth if nobody buys DS? I would think the Landlords will take much bigger losses short term if DS close shop, wont they?

DSE accounts show a lease liability of $41m in NZ

The Administrator can walk away from as many as he likes. Worried landlords out there?

[stoploss]

So what would the current leases be worth if nobody buys DS? I would think the Landlords will take much bigger losses short term if DS close shop, wont they?
From my experience of dealing with landlords , in one instance we offered 50 % , of what was over rented . They said no , it was empty 18 months later ....
Most of the properties will be owned by someone like AMP prop trust etc , so they can withstand a period of non rental . But they will be stubborn as to lower the rent sets a dangerous precedent for other tenants ..... If they are good locations as you say someone else will step into the breach and pay market rental ....

[LAC]

From my experience of dealing with landlords , in one instance we offered 50 % , of what was over rented . They said no , it was empty 18 months later ....
Most of the properties will be owned by someone like AMP prop trust etc , so they can withstand a period of non rental . But they will be stubborn as to lower the rent sets a dangerous precedent for other tenants ..... If they are good locations as you say someone else will step into the breach and pay market rental ....
Interesting..... Guess its like Sky refusing to pay top dollar for content cos all the other content providers will follow suit:)

[alliswell]

Hi guys and gals,
Long time follower, few time poster...

I've held WHS for a few years now, (though thinking of selling at a lost) because I'm coming to be disillusioned with it all, half the stuff they have is crap that only lasts for a week or so (school bag for $20, that lasted 7 school days), shoes that lasted 4! and also, I cant help but think K-mart is better value AND quality, (I'm in Napier, we dont have a Kmart but Hastings do)
Over Christmas looking for toys, i noticed Whs had a racing tracking for $33,..K mart had the exact same one for $17, a toy mouse that moves WHS $29, Kmart $20, among a few other noticeable price difference's
Plus when you walk in Kmart, it is always tidy, clean, WHS, everything is always open, and out of place!!

Ok rant over, heading back to my shell!

[shonen knife]

Hi guys and gals,
Long time follower, few time poster...

I've held WHS for a few years now, (though thinking of selling at a lost) because I'm coming to be disillusioned with it all, half the stuff they have is crap that only lasts for a week or so (school bag for $20, that lasted 7 school days), shoes that lasted 4! and also, I cant help but think K-mart is better value AND quality, (I'm in Napier, we dont have a Kmart but Hastings do)
Over Christmas looking for toys, i noticed Whs had a racing tracking for $33,..K mart had the exact same one for $17, a toy mouse that moves WHS $29, Kmart $20, among a few other noticeable price difference's
Plus when you walk in Kmart, it is always tidy, clean, WHS, everything is always open, and out of place!!

Ok rant over, heading back to my shell!

Agreed!

I hadn't been to Kmart for 5+ years and the last time I went it was complete junk. But recently a few people have been telling me how it is better than The Warehouse and that you can get some decent quality stuff. So I recently went and was quite impressed, still not a fantastic place, but decent prices, decent quality and best of all it was tidy and it didn't feel like I was in some discount dump store. Quite impressive how they have turned it around.

I sold my WHS last year at a slight loss, but still follow their moves. They have been starting some interesting ventures e.g. finance and mobile services...but every time I go there I walk out wondering why I even bothered going in....

[stoploss]

DSE accounts show a lease liability of $41m in NZ

The Administrator can walk away from as many as he likes. Worried landlords out there?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/77286573/dick-smith-to-close-all-stores

[winner69]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/77286573/dick-smith-to-close-all-stores

After the initial flood of junk on to the market you would have to think that Noel leeming will pick up some additional business .... although there service etc isn't much better than Dick Smiths

[stoploss]

After the initial flood of junk on to the market you would have to think that Noel leeming will pick up some additional business .... although there service etc isn't much better than Dick Smiths

Big plus for JB and Harvey N....

[kizame]

Big plus for JB and Harvey N....

I don't think it will be a big plus for anyone really,they would have been losing to competition for a while,and judging by how busy they were over xmas (deserted) the competition would already have brought a lot of these sales gains (if any) to account.
When competition bites in retail it is a gradual thing building momentum over a period of time,by the time this company went into receivership the sales had already been spread elsewhere. JCar might win a tiny bit but as above already.

[Andrew]

Wont be long jcar will be owned by the warehouse, as well as jb hi fi etc etc. I wish they would stop paying goodwill to buy more businesses. As someone said before they should get peak efficiency and sound expansion from what they already have. Am break even on my holding on whs at the moment, and am awaiting the results and increased dividend with baited breath.

[macduffy]

Wont be long jcar will be owned by the warehouse, as well as jb hi fi etc etc. I wish they would stop paying goodwill to buy more businesses. As someone said before they should get peak efficiency and sound expansion from what they already have. Am break even on my holding on whs at the moment, and am awaiting the results and increased dividend with baited breath.

I don't expect WHS to be in the market for JB Hifi for a while yet. The latter has a M/Cap of over AUD2b, a bit much for the Red Sheds, I would think!

:cool:

[Andrew]

I don't expect WHS to be in the market for JB Hifi for a while yet. The latter has a M/Cap of over AUD2b, a bit much for the Red Sheds, I would think!

:cool:

Being flippant for extra effect. Or is it exagerating for effect.

[macduffy]

Being flippant for extra effect. Or is it exagerating for effect.

Yessss...... I rather thought that might be the case. A lot of posts get taken rather literally though, particularly if made with a straight face!

Cheers

;)

[BlackPeter]

Not sure, whether relevant, but from a technical perspective: WHS just passed the golden cross. Fireworks anyone? Percy, it fits your buying criteria ...

Last time it did this (passing the GC), the share was in for a quite healthy uptrend - and just following the MA50 and MA 200 seemed to work quite well with this stock.

On the other hand ... the up trend so far is "quite flat", and not sure, whether retail is at the moment the dream industry to be invested in. Competition by Internet shopping and the recent Dick Smith debacle springing to mind.

Thoughts?

Discl: not holding ... and not sure either, whether this is now the right time to jump of the fence to pick up a retail stock.

[Tomtom]

Thoughts? Interestingly consumer credit is now growing at only 3.3% (Y/Y%) according to RBNZ which is sharply down and now less than half the pace of Agri (8.6%), Business (7.5%) or Housing (7.8%).

[kiwitrev]

Well the GX seems to be firmly in place. Recent activity would suggest the market(whoever that mystical character is) anticipates a good half year report so we will have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Also first opportunity for new CEO to impress or not.

Not sure, whether relevant, but from a technical perspective: WHS just passed the golden cross. Fireworks anyone? Percy, it fits your buying criteria ...

Last time it did this (passing the GC), the share was in for a quite healthy uptrend - and just following the MA50 and MA 200 seemed to work quite well with this stock.

On the other hand ... the up trend so far is "quite flat", and not sure, whether retail is at the moment the dream industry to be invested in. Competition by Internet shopping and the recent Dick Smith debacle springing to mind.

Thoughts?

Discl: not holding ... and not sure either, whether this is now the right time to jump of the fence to pick up a retail stock.

[Balance]

Well the GX seems to be firmly in place. Recent activity would suggest the market(whoever that mystical character is) anticipates a good half year report so we will have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Also first opportunity for new CEO to impress or not.

Or market is anticipating an announcement on merger between Farmers and WHS?

[kiwitrev]

We all have our wish lists Balance. Just on your thesis I couldn't see a material benefit to WHS on such a merger. They have all the retail space they require and Farmers have their own brand so likely to want to keep that identity. The Normans have always said their SH in WHS was an investment but as we know 'investment' can have many interpretations. We are a suspicous lot so maybe Normans just parking cash for a decent return in this low interest environment. Who knows?

Or market is anticipating an announcement on merger between Farmers and WHS?

[Andrew]

Farmers need to know what the Warehouse is doing, just the same as when Woolworths had shares to make sure WHS were not going to get into the supermarket trade in competition with Countdown. While on a different basis, I would see Farmers and the Warehouse as competitors. Keep your friends close but keep your enemies even closer.

[kiwitrev]

Farmers need to know what the Warehouse is doing, just the same as when Woolworths had shares to make sure WHS were not going to get into the supermarket trade in competition with Countdown. While on a different basis, I would see Farmers and the Warehouse as competitors. Keep your friends close but keep your enemies even closer.
Isn't what you are suggesting collusion. Just because JP a large SH doesn't entitle them to information not shared with the market as a whole.

[macduffy]

The WHS/Countdown/Woolworths saga wasn't a matter of collusion or obtaining priviledged information. It was a case of Woolies and Countdown both taking blocking shareholdings against each other's possible moves.

[stoploss]

The WHS/Countdown/Woolworths saga wasn't a matter of collusion or obtaining priviledged information. It was a case of Woolies and Countdown both taking blocking shareholdings against each other's possible moves.

IMO poor behaviour on their behalf . Maybe thats the thing the anti competition commission or whatever it is called should be able to look at .....Ended up costing them cash anyway and heaps of it when the same commission I presume turned down the takeover on marketshare issues .....

[macduffy]

IMO poor behaviour on their behalf . Maybe thats the thing the anti competition commission or whatever it is called should be able to look at .....Ended up costing them cash anyway and heaps of it when the same commission I presume turned down the takeover on marketshare issues .....

Yes, poor decisions - as it turned out. But at the time, both had valid reasons to fear that the other would steal a march on them and therefore took a business decision to forestall that.

[stoploss]

Yes, poor decisions - as it turned out. But at the time, both had valid reasons to fear that the other would steal a march on them and therefore took a business decision to forestall that.

they have done it all around Wellington , Countdown purchased the sight on the corner of Adelaide rd,John st I think it is .... New World purchased the Tip Top next door C, ountdown wanted for their carpark ..so Countdown had to put a very expensive underground carpark in ..... Tip Top building left in decay, graffiti and all next door ...... Now sold to RYM I believe .

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/279102

In line with trading update - results at the very top end.

Looks like a good results with all divisions performing (even Noel Leeming!) save the start-up Finance Divsion which is still incurring set up costs.

[winner69]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/279102

In line with trading update - results at the very top end.

Looks like a good results with all divisions performing (even Noel Leeming!) save the start-up Finance Divsion which is still incurring set up costs.

Best result for years

Bit strange that after such an awesome 1st half (+22% compared to last year) the 2nd half is only going 'to be in line' with last year.

[winner69]

Just confirms that retail is pretty buoyant at the moment, in spite of the gloom and doom Wheeler espoused yesterday

Warehouse, Briscoes et al doing well.

[macduffy]

Best result for years

Bit strange that after such an awesome 1st half (+22% compared to last year) the 2nd half is only going 'to be in line' with last year.

Yes, excellent result. Company obviously expects a weaker currency to impact in the second half - as Rod Duke also noted in yesterday's Briscoes announcement.

[Balance]

Best result for years

Bit strange that after such an awesome 1st half (+22% compared to last year) the 2nd half is only going 'to be in line' with last year.

They are learning to under-deliver and over-deliver?

[winner69]

No pay rise for Birman though

[kiwitrev]

No pay rise for Birman though

But still attractive given interest rates continue to slide

[Bobdn]

Good to see Torpedo7 now doing so well and online sales increasing. I get business shirts on sale for $14 online and order packs of 48 rolls of bog paper for $10 per pack. Quality is fine for both. Oh, I also get my protein powder from shotgun.co.NZ, another one of our companies.

WHS online businesses operate brilliantly.

[Sideshow Bob]

I think I would personally account for quite a bit of the increase in T7's turnover. It's all those emails for that stuff at bargain prices that I never knew I really needed! ;)

[Andrew]

I think I would personally account for quite a bit of the increase in T7's turnover. It's all those emails for that stuff at bargain prices that I never knew I really needed! ;)

Know that feeling, had to unsubscribe from 1 day deals and Warehouse specials.

[BIRMANBOY]

Settled into a good place W...so mustn't grumble. Look at those TD rates and be thankful. I wouldn't be surprised to see some significant SP movement up in the next year.
No pay rise for Birman though

[kiwitrev]

Settled into a good place W...so mustn't grumble. Look at those TD rates and be thankful. I wouldn't be surprised to see some significant SP movement up in the next year.
Yep, getting harder and harder to find yield. Property probably fully priced in the near term which basically leaves corporate bonds as the other option apart from divvies from shares

[kiwitrev]

Or market is anticipating an announcement on merger between Farmers and WHS?
Just as a follow up I took a look at the shareholding as reported September A/R as had forgotten details. As we all know W/W are out. Summary of holdings: 81.54% top 20 SH, 18.46% the rest. Tindall and Foundation 48.32%, Tindall etc as trustees 2.07%. James Pascoe 16.44% and F/Stuffs 8.97%. If the Normans have any aspirations at all they would have to pick up F/Stuffs 8.97% giving them 25.41%. To then launch a T/O bid would require an awful amount of leverage. Nothing new in this info but thought useful as a reminder.

[Bobdn]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/282310

This update looked good to me. It's great seeing the online business side of things doing so well. Last week on their Red Alert sale page they were selling Guess bags for just $30. It was an unbelievable price and they sold out of them in a couple of hours. Here's an example of a bag they were selling for $30 which you can find for $100US elsewhere on the net: http://www.findmallbuy.com/guess-nakieta-dizzy-satchel-brown-multi-p-2460/

I assume at $30 a bag it was last season stock. Nonetheless, for me it says the Warehouse is really trying to fight fire with fire. Their online stores are superb and they seem to be able to source excellent brands at competitive prices. I'm off to the gym now wearing my $20 Warehouse shoes and with my shake mixed with protein from www.shotgun.co.nz.

Hey, if you own the company why not go full immersion ;)

[kiwitrev]

Comment taken from NBR site.

I see the Red Sheds are now mirroring the Briscoe type advertising, so I guess they are predicting a significant lift in profits?? Briscoes advertise up to 60% off a lot of stuff, the only problem is 60% off what? my experience is the clouds up in the Sky because that is where their prices start at, and at years end the Annual bottom line show's that their returns are getting near 50% so that tells you the story doesn't it, my experience with the Red Sheds is now very similar, they have also got their prices up into the clouds and therefore have started to advertise 20-60% off so obviously Pascoe's are punting on record profits for the next trading year, another example was this years Easter Egg crop at the Red Shed, what was $20-25 last year was $35-40 this year, so be warned people there are going to be some very good retail profit returns next year, and here is another tip, the Woolworths return to shareholder's is going to go through the roof at almost 50% last year, this one is going to dwarf that one watch and see. you only have to look at their price increases post the min wage increase announcement to work that out, and let me tell you, anyone on the min wage which in this country is one hell of a lot of you,well every single cent of your increase was taken back off you by the Food Supermarkets via their price increases!!! your net gain was below zero!!

[BIRMANBOY]

I see The Stormin Normans added another 3 million odd shares to their position..getting close to 18% or so I believe. "just an investment"...yeh right... The long plan yet to be revealed but of great interest since will no doubt have a big impact on what's happening in the retail area. So merely by taking over, improving and and running the jewellery areas in the WHS stores they would gain 92 plus outlets. Lets guess and say 200,000 turnover per outlet this makes 18.5 million additional turnover. Very attractive to both the Normans and WHS if profit share of some sort arranged. Or lets say the Normans are positioning themselves to cash up their holdings..at that time of life..as one does...and are working to be taken over, bought out, or folded into WHS. 38 Pascoes jewellery stores in NZ, Not counting Stewart Dawsons, average rental 60,000 PA? so close those and you save 2 million plus just in rental. JUST SPECULATION mind you..this is what makes this so interesting..so many possibilities. not to mention all the Prouds Jewellery stores in OZ as well as Farmers etc. You don't "invest" in someone else's business and get 7% when you can invest in your own and get 20%.....so yet to be divulged but the bottom line has to be an increase in SP when this unfolds. Just the old ugly sisters, what, if and when.

[kiwitrev]

I see The Stormin Normans added another 3 million odd shares to their position..getting close to 18% or so I believe. "just an investment"...yeh right... The long plan yet to be revealed but of great interest since will no doubt have a big impact on what's happening in the retail area. So merely by taking over, improving and and running the jewellery areas in the WHS stores they would gain 92 plus outlets. Lets guess and say 200,000 turnover per outlet this makes 18.5 million additional turnover. Very attractive to both the Normans and WHS if profit share of some sort arranged. Or lets say the Normans are positioning themselves to cash up their holdings..at that time of life..as one does...and are working to be taken over, bought out, or folded into WHS. 38 Pascoes jewellery stores in NZ, Not counting Stewart Dawsons, average rental 60,000 PA? so close those and you save 2 million plus just in rental. JUST SPECULATION mind you..this is what makes this so interesting..so many possibilities. not to mention all the Prouds Jewellery stores in OZ as well as Farmers etc. You don't "invest" in someone else's business and get 7% when you can invest in your own and get 20%.....so yet to be divulged but the bottom line has to be an increase in SP when this unfolds. Just the old ugly sisters, what, if and when.

Just luv your posts BB. It defies logic that Normans not in WHS other than to have a crack at it. For any bid to be in play seemingly JP would have to pick up sufficient shares from the only remaining SSH (F/Stuffs) but would they be a willing seller at current SP-I guess not so maybe this point under negotiation. Then if this hurdle overcome and a bid is forthcoming I just can't see Tindall rolling over and we could see a bidding war. Again just speculation but us minority SH always looking for something positive. On the flip side Mr market not showing any sign of this possibilty but as WHS could be regarded as a tightly held stock could be a factor.

[kiwitrev]

An attempt to supress SP today?. Currently 3 sellers totalling 442 shares??

[kiwitrev]

An attempt to supress SP today?. Currently 3 sellers totalling 442 shares??

Oops forgot to add at $2.76

[macduffy]

An attempt to supress SP today?. Currently 3 sellers totalling 442 shares??

No evidence of "suppression". Turnover in WHS has been a measly 15,000 shares. Just no-one looking to sell, as sometimes happens!

[BIRMANBOY]

Yes Trev...get in behind mate:p....and my shares are being tightly clenched there as well. Personally I am thinking the Normans are looking for leverage to be bought out of not only their WHS but also their other holdings.....but that's just me. They have been heading the business since 1980..thats 36 years so they must be well in their late 60's early 70's. Very difficult selling a jewellery related business..who and where are the buyers so not an easy task. They do have children involved in the business's but its a huge business holding so a lot of money tied up there...well over half a billion. Watch this space..well not this one because we will be last ones to find out.
Just luv your posts BB. It defies logic that Normans not in WHS other than to have a crack at it. For any bid to be in play seemingly JP would have to pick up sufficient shares from the only remaining SSH (F/Stuffs) but would they be a willing seller at current SP-I guess not so maybe this point under negotiation. Then if this hurdle overcome and a bid is forthcoming I just can't see Tindall rolling over and we could see a bidding war. Again just speculation but us minority SH always looking for something positive. On the flip side Mr market not showing any sign of this possibilty but as WHS could be regarded as a tightly held stock could be a factor.

[see weed]

Here it is WHS. Nothing in 3 months.

[BIRMANBOY]

Good to see you adding something to nothing SW.......since your something is actually zero then that would be a grand total of.....yep ..still nothing..:eek2: if you look at 2year chart however has been on a steady trajectory upward for a year now...that's something.
https://www.anzsecurities.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/chart.aspx?key=TWSxQ9LamJIT%2f5yO01oRvuzGWiwBC9Iat EhSa2mQHIVV75Lb%2fkG4IAtwGenMKF5UL3t3D2FwtP%2fAc16 xBNS0Dabs%2fpFQ8UrdmtYPsynPQzKmm%2bO%2flMShq6isaoI oZFgP7Jkzf5YMy4FwjqBfIbq%2b%2bb8xCSwHOKJG%2bKLXwUK jVGu2xXDTtBDu%2bYkMtqfEfNb4psIJmtdPy8qFG%2fez%2byc 1gmSAC6MPDdP%2bYqx9YvNRxHQvm028t2Gyl6MpbhEvlUT48Al SKPfjAahYKYkD5SkDq5yVEIyGnLL%2fSlAK3xou%2bsq45RTTG Umr%2fsIY0zxzTgBPaPcKWj18D8U%3d

Here it is WHS. Nothing in 3 months.

[Bobdn]

I'm quietly optimistic about the Warehouse. Economy is booming. Hopefully people have been spending up large in the red sheds and online.

I buy business shirts ($12 on special); shoes; bog paper and Christmas gifts are always in the form of WHS gift cards so I do my bit. Recently I bought a nice bracelet reduced from $700 to $200 and gave it to a girl I was trying to woo, and she is still with me so I thank the Warehouse for that.

WHS new credit cards are rated the best in the country according to a Stuff article a few months back.

[Valuegrowth]

It looks like kind of stagnated stock. It has given one year return around 9%. Any reason for trading it below $4? Besides its P/E ratio has not stretched much when compare with peers. It is also one of the retailers where consumers find value for money. It is time to find stocks which are trading great discount to the market. I am also impressed with its implied price. Still it can consider as a value stock.

[Valuegrowth]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/289295

[Hectorplains]

I have been dealing with School Tex and I'm very impressed with what they're offering. Initially, post the Postie purchase, they were a train wreck but they've come steaming back on track with a level of customer service that I tip my hat too. Dunno if that's indicative of what's happening across the group?

[winner69]

Wow - profit up 50%

And F17 earnings to be more than F16

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/244337.pdf

[winner69]

Birman - no pay rise this year

Dividend the same as last year

[winner69]

Shouldn't got so excited earlier

While reported profits up 49% operating profits only up 12%

Not too bad - considering the Red Sheds earnings went backwards in second half of year ......hope that not a sign of first half F17 when H116 was a really strong half year

[Bobdn]

What a good result. WHS has a nice yield.

[tim23]

Happy with result but wanted dividend lift to match...

[BlackPeter]

Back in - and accumulated some more today before the Christmas rush comes on ... ;);

Nice uptrend, Retail industry doing well overall, good earnings report ... and the buying season just ahead - what else could we wish for?

Ah yes, maybe an early start of the summer season

DYOR;

[winner69]

Bejeezus - WHS share price over $3.00

First time since 2014 I think

The world has gone stark raving mad

[Valuegrowth]

Today's Range:

3.00 - 3.03




52 week:


2.56 - 3.03

[janner]

Bejeezus - WHS share price over $3.00

First time since 2014 I think

The world has gone stark raving mad

Possibly due to percy's old favourite .. " Online Shopping ".. They are certainly putting a great effort into that..


Disc. Not a holder.

[winner69]

Group sales for Q1 only up 3.9% - not much in these boom times

Red Sheds weak, just as well for Noel Leemings and T7

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/247879.pdf

[winner69]

The tone of Grayston's comments sort of suggest that the market is getting more and more competitive and all the new fan dangled strategies they are implementing will just keep them in the game - no more but possibly less


His actual words -
We are focused on improving the fundamentals of the business and still have a lot of work to do to achieve the levels of profitability that we see are possible. The competitive environment is tougher every year, and with the more international players focusing on our domestic market, both physically and online, it is more important for us to execute our plans well, to ensure that we are relevant, competitive and profitable in the future”.

[couta1]

The tone of Grayston's comments sort of suggest that the market is getting more and more competitive and all the new fan dangled strategies they are implementing will just keep them in the game - no more but possibly less Steady divvy payer that ain't going away anytime soon.

[winner69]

Steady divvy payer that ain't going away anytime soon.

Yep, and as interest rates rise share price does .............

[kiwitrev]

Very little news to whet the appetite however thought it worthy of mention today's close. Shortly b4 close price beaten down on small volumes to $2.89 but at the death 1 trade 400k shares @ $2.96. Make of it what you will but certainly not the norm, only 1 party publicly known to be accumulating.

[Bobdn]

Ah, I wondered.

Thought odd for it to drop 2 per cent just before it goes xd.

[BlackPeter]

Very little news to whet the appetite however thought it worthy of mention today's close. Shortly b4 close price beaten down on small volumes to $2.89 but at the death 1 trade 400k shares @ $2.96. Make of it what you will but certainly not the norm, only 1 party publicly known to be accumulating.

Yeah, interesting, some friendly soul sold me their WHS shares yesterday evening for 2.90 ... and immediately afterwards the SP went up again. Double dividends for me :t_up:. Maybe somebody thought the share is already ex-dividend - who knows?

[kiwitrev]

Yeah, interesting, some friendly soul sold me their WHS shares yesterday evening for 2.90 ... and immediately afterwards the SP went up again. Double dividends for me :t_up:. Maybe somebody thought the share is already ex-dividend - who knows?

On reflection possibly a fund manager doing a bit of dressing up for quarter end.

[kiwitrev]

On reflection possibly a fund manager doing a bit of dressing up for quarter end.

Always amuses me games people play. Today's buy/sell similar pattern to yesterday. Looking to the close for similar finish?

[Bobdn]

Would be a near perfect green day for me apart from WHS.

[bottomfeeder]

Very little news to whet the appetite however thought it worthy of mention today's close. Shortly b4 close price beaten down on small volumes to $2.89 but at the death 1 trade 400k shares @ $2.96. Make of it what you will but certainly not the norm, only 1 party publicly known to be accumulating.

For every buyer there is a seller and vica versa. So I dont read much into buys and sells.

[Bobdn]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/86877305/shareholders-warned-value-of-warehouse-money-may-be-cut

From my experience, Warehouse Money is a bit of a mess. I did my bit today and enjoyed 20% discount with the card but what a hassle it was getting the card. My application was "semi declined" twice and, I only got it when I wrote a note directly to the guy in charge with a please explain. I'm pretty confident I'm in the top few per cent of New Zealanders in terms of income. My mother is in an even better financial position than me and got flat out declined. Trust me when i say that she has a perfect credit history, plenty of income, and has had an old Warehouse card for years.

Warehouse Money is a real concern for me. I told WHS in an email when they were launching it that I thought they were trying to do to much too quickly and it worried me as a shareholder. I was proven right.

[GTM 3442]

The Warehouse ave been d*cking about with money - cards & insurance - for well over ten years now. If it's not working for them by now, it's probably never going to work for them.

[kura]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/86877305/shareholders-warned-value-of-warehouse-money-may-be-cut

From my experience, Warehouse Money is a bit of a mess. I did my bit today and enjoyed 20% discount with the card but what a hassle it was getting the card. My application was "semi declined" twice and, I only got it when I wrote a note directly to the guy in charge with a please explain. I'm pretty confident I'm in the top few per cent of New Zealanders in terms of income. My mother is in an even better financial position than me and got flat out declined. Trust me when i say that she has a perfect credit history, plenty of income, and has had an old Warehouse card for years.

Warehouse Money is a real concern for me. I told WHS in an email when they were launching it that I thought they were trying to do to much too quickly and it worried me as a shareholder. I was proven right.

He He My application for a card was also declined, left me scratching head, as never had problem getting credit in past.

[percy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/86877305/shareholders-warned-value-of-warehouse-money-may-be-cut

From my experience, Warehouse Money is a bit of a mess. I did my bit today and enjoyed 20% discount with the card but what a hassle it was getting the card. My application was "semi declined" twice and, I only got it when I wrote a note directly to the guy in charge with a please explain. I'm pretty confident I'm in the top few per cent of New Zealanders in terms of income. My mother is in an even better financial position than me and got flat out declined. Trust me when i say that she has a perfect credit history, plenty of income, and has had an old Warehouse card for years.

Warehouse Money is a real concern for me. I told WHS in an email when they were launching it that I thought they were trying to do to much too quickly and it worried me as a shareholder. I was proven right.
I know someone who has 80,000 WHS shares ,and he was declined.!!!
They appear to have a problem with WHS money?!

[kiwico]

We had no problem getting the card. Getting an additional card for a spouse involved far more questions than getting the card itself, which seems a bit bizarre, so we both ended up with our own cards (one shareholder one not). The local WHS was very busy yesterday but whether that was the likes of cardholders getting our 20% discount (we even bought our milk there yesterday) or just part of the pre-Christmas rush who knows. Our cards are retained for the purpose of a WHS discount card only; we use cards with rewards for purchases everywhere else.

[Bobdn]

We had no problem getting the card. Getting an additional card for a spouse involved far more questions than getting the card itself, which seems a bit bizarre, so we both ended up with our own cards (one shareholder one not). The local WHS was very busy yesterday but whether that was the likes of cardholders getting our 20% discount (we even bought our milk there yesterday) or just part of the pre-Christmas rush who knows. Our cards are retained for the purpose of a WHS discount card only; we use cards with rewards for purchases everywhere else.

Well, that sounds encouraging. Apart from buying a years supply of toilet paper yesterday ($4 for an 18 roll pack) , I also bought 20 packets of three Oral B soft toothbrushes (parallel imported!). After the 20% discount, each individual tooth brush cost just 53 cents! There really were some outstanding bargains yesterday.

[Baa_Baa]

I know someone who has 80,000 WHS shares ,and he was declined.!!!
They appear to have a problem with WHS money?!

Maybe they don't want people who pay off their debt, they're the the worst kind of credit card customer, they get the discounts and the credit and never pay any interest. Show them a dole card and get signed up on the spot!

[percy]

Maybe they don't want people who pay off their debt, they're the the worst kind of credit card customer, they get the discounts and the credit and never pay any interest. Show them a dole card and get signed up on the spot!

I think you are correct.
I was told Smiths City always put the hp in the wife's name,so if hubby did a runner, welfare would pick up the tab.!!

[kiwitrev]

Just keeping all holders in the loop. Final trade today at $2.93 (prev. sale $2.86) with 1.5m shares changing hands at the death. Again not a usual transaction for WHS and following a recent 400k sale. Perhaps some attention is warranted.

[kiwitrev]

[QUOTE=kiwitrev;646635]Just keeping all holders in the loop. Final trade today at $2.93 (prev. sale $2.86) with 1.5m shares changing hands at the death. Again not a usual transaction for WHS and following a recent 400k sale. Perhaps some attention is warranted.

[ratkin]

[QUOTE=kiwitrev;646635]Just keeping all holders in the loop. Final trade today at $2.93 (prev. sale $2.86) with 1.5m shares changing hands at the death. Again not a usual transaction for WHS and following a recent 400k sale. Perhaps some attention is warranted.

Pascoes buying again

Details of the transactions or other events requiring disclosure under the
instructions to this form: market purchase on 30 November 2016 of 855,803
ordinary shares for the net consideration of NZD2,487,281.88.

[BlackPeter]

[QUOTE=kiwitrev;646636]

Pascoes buying again

Details of the transactions or other events requiring disclosure under the
instructions to this form: market purchase on 30 November 2016 of 855,803
ordinary shares for the net consideration of NZD2,487,281.88.

Yes, looks like they feel that WHS is a bargain at the currently discounted prices. I tend to agree - retail should be good at least in the short term (Christmas sales - the US black Friday was a great start), but likely as well in the mid term, and despite the ailing finance arm do I think that WHS should be mid term one of the more solid players (and the disappearance of Dick Smith should help WHS sub Noel Leeming).

[cdonald]

[QUOTE=ratkin;646703]

Yes, looks like they feel that WHS is a bargain at the currently discounted prices. I tend to agree - retail should be good at least in the short term (Christmas sales - the US black Friday was a great start), but likely as well in the mid term, and despite the ailing finance arm do I think that WHS should be mid term one of the more solid players (and the disappearance of Dick Smith should help WHS sub Noel Leeming).

They are sneeking ever so close to 20%, is that the magic number for something?

[kiwitrev]

For every buyer there is a seller and vica versa. So I dont read much into buys and sells.

I have always subscribed to the theory that it's wise to pay attention to everything when it comes to the sharemarket. In this case a simple matter to connect the dots as JP the only buyer of any quantity.

[BlackPeter]

Well,

this was quick ... one week after going ex-dividend WHS recovered to pre-dividend levels. If anybody is in "dividend stripping" - this must be the stock (though not sure, it works always that way - DYOR and - just for the record - I do not recommend this strategy).

Discl: holding and no intention to sell ... retail in my view at current a good place to be and I love my dividends ;)

[kiwitrev]

http://theregister.co.nz/opinion/2015/03/why-james-pascoe-group-purchased-more-warehouse-shares

Old news this article but one I had not previously sighted. Makes for interesting reading. Incidentally I'm surprised that no news feed (to my knowledge) have found the latest JP foray to be newsworthy. Perhaps that will change.

[winner69]

What's the average price Pascoe's have paid?

Anybody know

[ratkin]

What's the average price Pascoe's have paid?

Anybody know

My guess would be around 2.80. Let's hope it ends better than Jan Cameron's
foray into Pumpkin patch

[kiwitrev]

Numbers don't lie so I need help to understand the latest JP filing. This disclosure 64,537,890 shares, prev. disclosure 60,700,673 shares-a difference of 3,837,217. The transaction triggering latest disclosure declares 855,803 shares purchased 30 November. If the total number now held is correct where are the details of the missing 2,981,414 shares. Also we know on 30 November some 1.5+m shares traded at the close so a little intrigue as to who purchased the other 700k or so?

[couta1]

Kiwitrev, 30 Nov was index rebalancing day and WHS was removed from the MSCI small cap index hence the large volume of traded shares, the other 700k would have been purchased by passive index funds.

[winner69]

Numbers don't lie so I need help to understand the latest JP filing. This disclosure 64,537,890 shares, prev. disclosure 60,700,673 shares-a difference of 3,837,217. The transaction triggering latest disclosure declares 855,803 shares purchased 30 November. If the total number now held is correct where are the details of the missing 2,981,414 shares. Also we know on 30 November some 1.5+m shares traded at the close so a little intrigue as to who purchased the other 700k or so?

They only need to disclose the last sale that took them over the +1% mark - not all their buy/ sells since the last disclosure.

A bulk of the other 700k shares purchased on 30 Nov were probably BlackPeter topping up

Some insto just attach a printout of all there transactions - pages and pages of them sometimes

[kiwitrev]

Fair enough Couta, but how does the MSCI index correlate to the now holdings of JP which are now disclosed as 64,537,890 shares. Just trying to understand how it all works.

[kiwitrev]

They only need to disclose the last sale that took them over the +1% mark - not all their buy/ sells since the last disclosure.

A bulk of the other 700k shares purchased on 30 Nov were probably BlackPeter topping up

Some insto just attach a printout of all there transactions - pages and pages of them sometimes

Hi Winner
So as long as any single trade is under 1% no disclosure is required?

[winner69]

Fair enough Couta, but how does the MSCI index correlate to the now holdings of JP which are now disclosed as 64,537,890 shares. Just trying to understand how it all works.

No relationship / correlation between MSCI and JP

But as part of that rebalancing exercise that Couts mentioned JP might have picked up some of those that needed to besold by fund managers

[winner69]

Hi Winner
So as long as any single trade is under 1% no disclosure is required?

Only need to disclose when you increase / decrease by 1% from last disclosure ....and then only disclose the trade / event that took them over that threshold

In case of the last JP disclosure - they needed to disclose when they increased shareholding to 64,166,000 odd (18.5%). That happened with that purchase of 855,803 the other day even though that purchase was 0.25% of total shares.

Totally confused now aren't you.

You would have been happier if they listed all buy/sells eh

[kiwitrev]

Only need to disclose when you increase / decrease by 1% from last disclosure ....and then only disclose the trade / event that took them over that threshold

In case of the last JP disclosure - they needed to disclose when they increased shareholding to 64,166,000 odd (18.5%). That happened with that purchase of 855,803 the other day even though that purchase was 0.25% of total shares.

Totally confused now aren't you.

You would have been happier if they listed all buy/sells eh
Would sure make it easier for everyone after all not everybody is a sophisticated investor and it should be more transparent.

[winner69]

Good to see share price hanging in there about the $3 mark

How's this year going performance wise for WHS Group

After 4 years of declining EPS (ex Morningstar) hopefully F17 will be better?

Been some effort in seeing EPS down 44% in those 4 years - when core retail sales in NZ have been booming (up 18% in same period)

This behemoth has to turn around some time doesn't it?

[macduffy]

This behemoth has to turn around some time doesn't it?

One would think so, winner. It's not as though other players are taking their particular market segment from them, although the likes of Briscoes and K Mart compete in some areas. Or am I wrong in thinking this?

[BlackPeter]

Good to see share price hanging in there about the $3 mark

How's this year going performance wise for WHS Group

After 4 years of declining EPS (ex Morningstar) hopefully F17 will be better?

Been some effort in seeing EPS down 44% in those 4 years - when core retail sales in NZ have been booming (up 18% in same period)

This behemoth has to turn around some time doesn't it?

Well, if the data come from Morningstar than they must be right - right?

Everybody not trusting Morning Star might look at the company records - and they show a somewhat different pattern:

EPS 2010 20 cts
EPS 2011 25 cts
EPS 2012 29 cts
EPS 2013 47 cts (including a one off property sale ...)
EPS 2014 22 cts (including smaller one offs)
EPS 2015 15 cts
EPS 2016 23 cts

average EPS over this period: 26 cts;

my expectation for FY2017 (based on the September announcement): 25 cts - i.e. basically back to a medium result; actually - might be better with Dick Smiths demise (good for Noel Leeming) and a generally promising Christmas sale;

I guess this shows nicely a quite cyclical stock past its last cyclical low in 2015;

In my view no need for turning around (at this stage). Just holding (and from time to time reviewing) the course should do quite fine.

What they should look at are in my view the "financial division" - which doesn't seem to get off the ground ... and Warehouse Stationary. Though they do make a bit of money - every time I get into one of the blue sheds I see more staff than customers (and quite empty corridors). There must be a more efficient way to make money from selling stationary ....

[winner69]

Yep, numbers all over the place

Even F16 WHS reported $78m npat butbtouted a $64m adjusted npat ( in line with guidance). Thats 18 cents eps. There were $14m of non operating earnings.

Might need to it the long way and do my own calcs based on adjusted npat and see what it looks like.

Forecast eps seems to be 20 cents - so 18 might be a realistic figure

What earnings record over many years is pretty flat (if not down) isn't it (in spite of booming retail sales)

[BlackPeter]

Yep, numbers all over the place

Even F16 WHS reported $78m npat butbtouted a $64m adjusted npat ( in line with guidance). Thats 18 cents eps. There were $14m of non operating earnings.

Might need to it the long way and do my own calcs based on adjusted npat and see what it looks like.

Forecast eps seems to be 20 cents - so 18 might be a realistic figure

What earnings record over many years is pretty flat (if not down) isn't it (in spite of booming retail sales)

Well, yes - their last CEO didn't lead them into the best of shapes, but the new guy must be now already a year or so at the helm - isn't he?

As indicated - I am a bit more optimistic for this year (they said it will be more than last ... but hey, maybe they referred to the underlying earnings, who knows?), but I guess time will tell - and obviously we still need to see whether the earthquakes did stop the Christmas rush (apparently retail sales in November had a wee dip - across the industry).

[winner69]

My morbid fascination with WHS continues, goes back to last century

Love to be a shareholder again .....but history says WHS is generally not a good medium/long term investment.

The only time one would have made any reasonable returns (from a medium/long term perspective is buying when the share price is really cheap - ie downgraded to really low multiples. However when this happens the market generally has also been rerated down and most things are a good buy .... and WHS subsequent returns are generally less than overall market returns anyway.

Compounding all this that over a long time the WHS share price has followed it's earnings trend downwards

Anyway for what's it worth below is a table of annual total shareholder returns (including all divies) over the last 9 years (July 31 share prices). The returns shown are cumulative annual returns from each July starting point. Not many green cells eh (greater than a miserable 5% pa return) - and they generally only come about from low entry prices in the first instance,

Definitely hasn't been a stock to hold long term .... only good for short /medium term trades but as said above generally under performs the market anyway in these instances

[Jim]

I am wondering when is WHS sending out the special shareholders purchase letter out. I am waiting for it so I can make some large purchase if they still continue doing it and not cancel them.

[kiwico]

I am wondering when is WHS sending out the special shareholders purchase letter out. I am waiting for it so I can make some large purchase if they still continue doing it and not cancel them.

I think this was 12.5% discount last year but that doesn't compare with the repeat of the 20% discount this Thursday for Warehouse Money credit card holders. Perhaps you'll be able to combine the two?

[kiwico]

The WHS special shareholders purchase letter is now out with 12.5% shareholder discount on next Monday and Tuesday (19th and 20th). Interestingly this coincides with yet another 20% discount day for Warehouse Money credit card holders, only five days since the last one.

So anyone fancy a 24% discount on an iPad? [as iPads and certain other things have only a 5% shareholder discount, but a 20% WM credit card holder discount was available on them last Thursday] Any with free shipping for WM credit card holders for anything over $50 why even to the store?

Apple iPad mini 2 Wi-Fi 32GB Grey Details http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/apple-ipad-mini-2-wi-fi-32gb-grey/R2147895.html $449.00

[kiwico]

And for the stingy of us there's the arbitrage play - why not buy things on Tuesday with a combined 30% (80% of 87.5%) and return anything bought in the 12 months that's still in a sellable condition (to met the 12 month return conditions of WHS.

I've seen the WHS provide a refund on a used and coffee stained drink container before so the sky's the limit.....

[winner69]

And for the stingy of us there's the arbitrage play - why not buy things on Tuesday with a combined 30% (80% of 87.5%) and return anything bought in the 12 months that's still in a sellable condition (to met the 12 month return conditions of WHS.

I've seen the WHS provide a refund on a used and coffee stained drink container before so the sky's the limit.....

The Red Sheds were good when they stocked more sports equipment than they do now

Non golfers would buy a set of the clubs for the annual work golf tournament and return them the next day for the refund (we did give them a bit of a clean)

Cool eh

[Sideshow Bob]

Oh that's alright then if you gave them a bit of a clean..... :p

[tim23]

Has anyone else noticed price closed at 12 month high?

[Bobdn]

I did Tim, not too shabby.

[Ogg]

I think the Warehouse is a great company. Sure, it's had it's problems but overall is solid. My only concern is the housing market and household debt which would way heavily on a stock like this if the housing market turned. The stock is on a good long term uptrend though.

I'm not sure weather to buy now or wait until after a housing crash to buy this.

I also noticed they updated their website recently (probably a while ago actually), it looks nice, the old one was a little budget. I always felt they were a little behind when it came to online marketing. I've bought a few things online with them and the experience was 10 times better than briscoes.

The weakening of the NZ dollar is also a concern.

A great article in the NZ herald today also:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11769016

I think the warehouse will prove to be a good divy stock over the next few years.

Solid buy, but probably not alot of upside. One thing for sure is this ain't going down.

[winner69]

Has anyone else noticed price closed at 12 month high?

Possibly breaking out of that 260/305 trading range that its been in for 2 years or so

Some TA people would say cold form a new trading range - this time 305/350

Good eh

(PS - still not tempted. Bugger eh, missing out on such potential)

[kiwitrev]

Possibly breaking out of that 260/305 trading range that its been in for 2 years or so

Some TA people would say cold form a new trading range - this time 305/350

Good eh

(PS - still not tempted. Bugger eh, missing out on such potential)
Not a chartist myself but notice current price much higher than the 50,100 and 200 SMA.

[winner69]

Not a chartist myself but notice current price much higher than the 50,100 and 200 SMA.
Findata chart - the RSI has gone over 70 and under the line has been coloured in in red

Last time that happened price fell from over 3 bucks to mid 280's ...hmm ....currently over bought?

I'm no real chartist either - admire them froman artistic point of view

[kiwitrev]

Findata chart - the RSI has gone over 70 and under the line has been coloured in in red

Last time that happened price fell from over 3 bucks to mid 280's ...hmm ....currently over bought?

I'm no real chartist either - admire them froman artistic point of view

The most fascinating thing about WHS is about the Norman's intentions. They are the only known buyer of any quantity and are getting closer to the magic 20%. F/Stuffs have the only other large stake that could get them over the line should that be their goal. I just can't see them being in WHS for the divvies but happy to be proven wrong. If they have the intention of making a play for control F/S would not want to take a substantial loss on their 10% (no real case for them to remain on the register now) as was the case with WW. That being the case could explain JP picking up small parcels under 1% recently from others.

[winner69]

The most fascinating thing about WHS is about the Norman's intentions. They are the only known buyer of any quantity and are getting closer to the magic 20%. F/Stuffs have the only other large stake that could get them over the line should that be their goal. I just can't see them being in WHS for the divvies but happy to be proven wrong. If they have the intention of making a play for control F/S would not want to take a substantial loss on their 10% (no real case for them to remain on the register now) as was the case with WW. That being the case could explain JP picking up small parcels under 1% recently from others.

Foodstuffs still $60m under water with their 'investment' - (but have collected divies only the way).

Mind you Pascoes not making much on his 'investment' either so far

Will Tindall ever sell? Or might try to privatise again? - his $5.75 offer didn't go far last time he tried

I think it will drift along fir another 10 years - no intrigue here.

[winner69]

Enterprise Value about $1.4 billion

About 9 times ebitda ...hmmm

[Bobdn]

Good news for retailers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/87705357/retailers-benefit-from-growth-in-christmas-spending.

It's a big Warehouse shopping day for me tomorrow. 20% discount for purchases using the WHS Money Card and a further 12.5% off for being a loyal shareholder.

These already super cheap chocolates have just got 32.5% cheaper.

https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/search?q=chocolates

[Balance]

Profit downgrade :

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/294575

First Half of Financial Year 2017 (H117) ending on 29 January 2017 is expected to be between 10%-15% lower than the same period last year, which is between $41.0m and $38.5m.

[winner69]

Profit downgrade :

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/294575

First Half of Financial Year 2017 (H117) ending on 29 January 2017 is expected to be between 10%-15% lower than the same period last year, which is between $41.0m and $38.5m.

Not surprising

They talk too much about strategy - no decent execution of plans (even if plans had any credence in first place)

Boom times in NZ retail and The Warehouse find the competition is better

[winner69]

Good news for retailers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/87705357/retailers-benefit-from-growth-in-christmas-spending.

It's a big Warehouse shopping day for me tomorrow. 20% discount for purchases using the WHS Money Card and a further 12.5% off for being a loyal shareholder.

These already super cheap chocolates have just got 32.5% cheaper.

https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/search?q=chocolates

Jeez margin pressure blamed for performance to date

And you going to add to the that pressure by buying big with these special discounts

Don't you feel guilty?

[BlackPeter]

Profit downgrade :

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/294575

First Half of Financial Year 2017 (H117) ending on 29 January 2017 is expected to be between 10%-15% lower than the same period last year, which is between $41.0m and $38.5m.

Quite disappointing and wondering whether this might be a sign to come for other retailers? Good revenue, lower margins ...; Anyway - would still result in an EPS of 20 cents for the full year - i.e. should not impact on the dividend (unless there is more to come);

[winner69]

Quite disappointing and wondering whether this might be a sign to come for other retailers? Good revenue, lower margins ...; Anyway - would still result in an EPS of 20 cents for the full year - i.e. should not impact on the dividend (unless there is more to come);

Even Rod from Briscoes reported margin pressures of late (after a period of margin expansion) because of 'competitive pressures'

Maybe retail not a good space to be in at the moment - could be worse if punters weren't as happy as they are

[winner69]

Must be pretty bad if they announce this profit downgrade before Christmas - no waiting until mid-January and saying Christmas didn't meet expectations and all that of sort of guff

Half Year announcement could be interesting - and will include a lot more talk about strategy .....yawn yawn. Hope is not a strategy guys

BP - your 20 cents divie safe for now .....even if they have to increase borrowings a tad.

[bull....]

not surprising, said long ago they were increasing sales only thru eroding margins.

One thing no one has mentioned is the said arrival of amazon in Australia next year will only increase competition in NZ retail as the freight costs will drop as its closer from aus to nz than us to nz.

[percy]

not surprising, said long ago they were increasing sales only thru eroding margins.

One thing no one has mentioned is the said arrival of amazon in Australia next year will only increase competition in NZ retail as the freight costs will drop as its closer from aus to nz than us to nz.

Amazon's arrival will create huge challenges for retailers on both sides of the Tasman.

[winner69]

Possibly breaking out of that 260/305 trading range that its been in for 2 years or so

Some TA people would say cold form a new trading range - this time 305/350

Good eh

(PS - still not tempted. Bugger eh, missing out on such potential)

Oh well, 'good effort but needs to try harder' as they in school reports

Spose another few years in that 260/305 range

One poster hates the concept of stocks being valued as bonds but that's how WHS should be I reckon. So what is risk adjusted price for a (guaranteed?) 16 cent divie (with imputation credits)?

WHS 2020 bonds currently 4.1% so would want higher yield for shares

[Bobdn]

Oh dear, what a disappointing end to the year :(

[winner69]

Oh dear, what a disappointing end to the year :(

And it was all hunky-dory less than a month ago at the ASM. Sounded like we were going to get good news in February

Hoping obviously not working

[alistar_mid]

Good news for retailers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/87705357/retailers-benefit-from-growth-in-christmas-spending.

It's a big Warehouse shopping day for me tomorrow. 20% discount for purchases using the WHS Money Card and a further 12.5% off for being a loyal shareholder.

These already super cheap chocolates have just got 32.5% cheaper.

https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/search?q=chocolates

lol, I went in yesterday to buy a bunch of star wars lego at 20% + 12.5%, cause you know you can collect that stuff, its kinda an investment.

Their computer system only had shareholder discount at 20%, so I got 36% off in total (0.8 * 0.8 = 0.64)

Ended up buy $1,300 worth (paid $790 something), had a trolley full of lego lol

[kiwitrev]

Quite disappointing and wondering whether this might be a sign to come for other retailers? Good revenue, lower margins ...; Anyway - would still result in an EPS of 20 cents for the full year - i.e. should not impact on the dividend (unless there is more to come);

The continuing story is one of increased revenues but margin pressures. WHS is the dominant retailer in NZ so with their supposed buying power how do 'the opposition' compete and stay in the game? Is it a 'last man standing' scenario yet to play out? Lots of questions, no answers. The recent run up of SP looks to be very dubious.

[ratkin]

Wont just be the warehouse. Went to Westfield mall in chch and was actually able to find a parking space, seemed much quieter than previous years for time of year.

The default present this year is a book ordered from the book depository, easy quick and a handy little gift bought for a couple of mouse clicks, at half the price of locally sourced books.

[winner69]

The continuing story is one of increased revenues but margin pressures. WHS is the dominant retailer in NZ so with their supposed buying power how do 'the opposition' compete and stay in the game? Is it a 'last man standing' scenario yet to play out? Lots of questions, no answers. The recent run up of SP looks to be very dubious.


I think they under estimate the impact that Bunnings and Mitre 10 have had and still have on them

Many of their higher margin categories suffering / gone

[Raz]

lol, I went in yesterday to buy a bunch of star wars lego at 20% + 12.5%, cause you know you can collect that stuff, its kinda an investment.

Their computer system only had shareholder discount at 20%, so I got 36% off in total (0.8 * 0.8 = 0.64)

Ended up buy $1,300 worth (paid $790 something), had a trolley full of lego lol

I hope you are pulling our leg..the lego they sell is not the collectors line items of choice :-) Still happy playing!

[Raz]

Wont just be the warehouse. Went to Westfield mall in chch and was actually able to find a parking space, seemed much quieter than previous years for time of year.

The default present this year is a book ordered from the book depository, easy quick and a handy little gift bought for a couple of mouse clicks, at half the price of locally sourced books.

Christchurch is a particular case not the norm in NZ. Local economy on the slide..Wellington retail suffering for entirely different reasons, CBD and EQ disruption effect while if u visit Auckland you will see a real contrast:-)

[Raz]

I think they under estimate the impact that Bunnings and Mitre 10 have had and still have on them

Many of their higher margin categories suffering / gone

There is a very good reason their CEO change a while back...business model still not working...

[JAX]

Wont just be the warehouse. Went to Westfield mall in chch and was actually able to find a parking space, seemed much quieter than previous years for time of year.

The default present this year is a book ordered from the book depository, easy quick and a handy little gift bought for a couple of mouse clicks, at half the price of locally sourced books.

I agree with you, I went to St Lukes on Sat and Sunday around Midday - there was a stack of carparks in one of the carparks - like maybe 1/5th empty - was quite weird as in previous times you can hardly get a park at St Lukes on any given weekend let alone the week before Xmas. - Seemed quite quiet - apart from Kmart - that place as packed to the rafters the checkout line went to the back of the store - they must be doing something right.

[winner69]

Nick says more cost cutting needed - not always a good thing

Cost cotting to be both "strategic" and "tactical" - he sure uses the right buzz words that Nick

[Beagle]

I agree with you, I went to St Lukes on Sat and Sunday around Midday - there was a stack of carparks in one of the carparks - like maybe 1/5th empty - was quite weird as in previous times you can hardly get a park at St Lukes on any given weekend let alone the week before Xmas. - Seemed quite quiet - apart from Kmart - that place as packed to the rafters the checkout line went to the back of the store - they must be doing something right.

My kids tell me if you want cheap, K Mart is where its at. I heard them advertising on the radio this morning, open 24 hours in the lead up to Xmas for those last minute gifts. That's the sort of proactive retailer WHS are up against.
I think K mart also provide a reasonable shopping environment too, (apart from their awful self service checkout). The old red tin shed that is WHS is a very tired down-market shopping experience in my view, (acknowledge I am not the target demographic).

[BlackPeter]

My kids tell me if you want cheap, K Mart is where its at. I heard them advertising on the radio this morning, open 24 hours in the lead up to Xmas for those last minute gifts. That's the sort of proactive retailer WHS are up against.
I think K mart also provide a reasonable shopping environment too, (apart from their awful self service checkout). The old red tin shed that is WHS is a very tired down-market shopping experience in my view, (acknowledge I am not the target demographic).

Hmm - I guess your latest comment might be true for me as well. Still - my wife and I managed to get recently both into KMart and Warehouse and left KMart empty handed, while we found a lot surprisingly cheap but good quality household items (starter for a young couple) and baby articles in the Warehouse. They have as well lots of reasonable priced fragrances (following the nose of my wife - take care, TIL ...) and (at least for this country and in this time) a great sortiment of quality chocolates;);

I don't think it is time to write off the red sheds ... but yes, there are things they need to work on:

my wife commented on the quite sad selection in women's clothing (too much sad looking and unstylish black stuff - and more jumpsuits than anything nice) - of course she didn't buy anything in this section. Maybe they need in this sector a purchasing manager with a bit better taste or style or both ...

mentioned before the blue sheds ...hard to understand why they don't think about ideas how to improve this quite unproductive asset

Get their finance division off the ground or ground it. Given most Kiwis preference to buy on credit do I find it hard to understand how it is possible not to make profit in this area.

[Biscuit]

I don't think it is time to write off the red sheds ... but yes, there are things they need to work on:

WHS does what it does quite well (it sells a wide range of variable quality stuff across the country at an honest price). They just have not found a way to grow once they hit saturation and their market is constantly being chipped away by competitors new and old (Trademe, Briscoes...etc etc). They are trapped and are going to stay trapped until takeover or oblivion.

[couta1]

WHS does what it does quite well (it sells a wide range of variable quality stuff across the country at an honest price). They just have not found a way to grow once they hit saturation and their market is constantly being chipped away by competitors new and old (Trademe, Briscoes...etc etc). They are trapped and are going to stay trapped until takeover or oblivion. They will still be grinding out reasonable divvys 10 yrs from now even if the share price does bugger all.Disc-Hold

[Biscuit]

They will still be grinding out reasonable divvys 10 yrs from now even if the share price does bugger all.Disc-Hold

I don't hold. I bought some years ago and eventually sold out. I think the dividend pretty much covered the loss of capital from share price fall. I sold when I no longer believed they had a credible strategy to stop the backwards momentum. But I have not followed them for a while now and just have residual skepticism. It would be nice if management were realistic with shareholders about their strategy and prospects.

[Beagle]

WHS does what it does quite well (it sells a wide range of variable quality stuff across the country at an honest price). They just have not found a way to grow once they hit saturation and their market is constantly being chipped away by competitors new and old (Trademe, Briscoes...etc etc). They are trapped and are going to stay trapped until takeover or oblivion.

I think that sums the situation up pretty well. The encroachment on the Warehouse's patch is relentless from many sides and is a systemic issue that's not going to go away, while at the same time their brand, format and overall concept looks tired and drab. Any way you slice and dice this thing its a very mature and very tired brand with limited, (if any) growth prospects.
If one is investing for the dividends there are far better choices.

[winner69]

Quite disappointing and wondering whether this might be a sign to come for other retailers? Good revenue, lower margins ...; Anyway - would still result in an EPS of 20 cents for the full year - i.e. should not impact on the dividend (unless there is more to come);

On an adjusted npat basis that WHS uses if full year is down 15% then eps will be 16 cents

Hoe they havea few decent property sales coming up to fund that dividend

At least the write down of the financial services part will be 'non cash'

[Beagle]

One of the key issues faced by all credit providers is the availability of the no asset procedure for unsecured debts up to $47,000. A simple one-off twelve month process that is considerably less odious than a full three year bankruptcy. I would think the Warehouse, (chasing their demographic), will find that they experience more than their fair share of losses through this procedure.
https://www.insolvency.govt.nz/personal-debt/personal-insolvency-options/no-asset-procedures/

[BlackPeter]

WHS does what it does quite well (it sells a wide range of variable quality stuff across the country at an honest price). They just have not found a way to grow once they hit saturation and their market is constantly being chipped away by competitors new and old (Trademe, Briscoes...etc etc). They are trapped and are going to stay trapped until takeover or oblivion.

CAGR (2009 - 2016) 7.5% p.a.; Forward CAGR (based on analyst consensus) 7.3%;

I hear what you are saying (just looking at the red sheds), but the numbers for the warehouse empire definitely show growth ...

[macduffy]

On an adjusted npat basis that WHS uses if full year is down 15% then eps will be 16 cents

Hoe they havea few decent property sales coming up to fund that dividend

At least the write down of the financial services part will be 'non cash'

Or at least "no more cash". It's already been spent/lost!

:mellow:

[Biscuit]

CAGR (2009 - 2016) 7.5% p.a.; Forward CAGR (based on analyst consensus) 7.3%;

I hear what you are saying (just looking at the red sheds), but the numbers for the warehouse empire definitely show growth ...

Interesting. Not sure it is interesting enough to me to look at that in depth. Take out the 2014 capital raise and there has only been one year in that period with any significant increase in shareholder equity (2013). Not sure what happened that year (something to do with buying Noel Leemings?). Since 2013 equity has decreased.

[winner69]

CAGR (2009 - 2016) 7.5% p.a.; Forward CAGR (based on analyst consensus) 7.3%;

I hear what you are saying (just looking at the red sheds), but the numbers for the warehouse empire definitely show growth ...

But a fair chunk of thst growth has come from Noel Leeming and Torpedo7
More acquisitions on horizon to maintain that growth?

[BlackPeter]

But a fair chunk of thst growth has come from Noel Leeming and Torpedo7
More acquisitions on horizon to maintain that growth?

Good point - merger with Farmers? Just kidding, though it might not be in the realm of impossibility given the Normans interest ...

[Bobdn]

WHS does a great job online. Shotgun supplements for example have great deals and provide excellent service.

Same story with their booze site: 1 day wine central. I'd be super sweaty and nervous about WHS if it wasn't for it's growing online business.

I'm going to hang onto my shares and see what happens.

[Beagle]

12 month price targets now:-
Craigs $2.75
Forbar $2.65
Analysts seem unimpressed.

WHS management said to be pleased with the apparel side of their business.

[couta1]

12 month price targets now:-
Craigs $2.75
Forbar $2.65
Analysts seem unimpressed.

WHS management said to be pleased with the apparel side of their business. Pretty much business as usual then, 12 month low was $2.59 so targets above that.(Of course I take most analysts targets with a pinch of salt)

[Stranger_Danger]

One of the key issues faced by all credit providers is the availability of the no asset procedure for unsecured debts up to $47,000. A simple one-off twelve month process that is considerably less odious than a full three year bankruptcy. I would think the Warehouse, (chasing their demographic), will find that they experience more than their fair share of losses through this procedure.
https://www.insolvency.govt.nz/personal-debt/personal-insolvency-options/no-asset-procedures/

I'm surprised this issue isn't discussed more by investors.
I personally know of half a dozen people in the 20-30 demographic who, having racked up $10k in debt buying rubbish, learned about the NAP procedure from friends, set out intentionally to accrue another 36k worth of debt, making sure they had friends garages to store their junk in, or what they hadn't resold for cash. They then filed for a NAP with not a care in the world, no drama from their friends and no damage to their job prospects.

This will only get more common in the years ahead - the cases I mention all occurred during good times with falling interest rates.

[Beagle]

I think the theory behind the NAP is good but as you say the problem behind parking an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff is that some people will jump just because its there and milk some enjoyment from the process.
I am seeing this with young people in the tax area too. Some have a very lax attitude to paying tax because they know the department have no option but to tread leniently with them...or NAP.
New credit providers need to be sure they're modelling up a pretty good percentage of people who will exploit unsecured debt. I wonder if this is one of the reasons WHS is struggling with its new financial division ?

[Ogg]

This might be slightly off topic, but I was in the market for a kayak the other day.

At The Warehouse a kayak was on special as a daily deal for $349.

http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/orca-kayak-orca-solo--2.7m/R1878319.html#q=kayak&start=1kaya

Then my friend sent me a link from a website called "Container Door". It's basically a site where everyone joins together to fill a container so the shipping cost is cheap. The website acts as a middleman and import agent.

Their price for a 2.7m Kayak was $299.

https://www.containerdoor.com/nz/product_listings/2-7m-single-kayak-15

The retail industry is so competitive, so I understand why so many companies are being squeezed. Especially considering the amount of small "one man band" websites competing for market share.

What's even more interesting, is that I decided to try and find the Chinese factory where they were all made. After a while searching I got in contact with one of them and they said their price was as low as $100 USD each if you ordered a 100 units or more, lol, plenty of margin there for any retailer.

All of my family now exclusively shop online. What The Warehouse needs to do is get rid of all the small non performing stores and build a large online distribution center.

[Bobdn]

Just went to Containerdoor the kayak is available on 15 February...in time for next summer.

Edit: sorry I was a bit hasty with my comment. I see 15 February is the estimated arrival date. At this stage the deal is yet to close, in fact, it's four days and 51 minutes away from closing. "Once we have enough orders to fill a container the deal will go through!" the website says.

If you're not in any hurry Containerdoor might be fine I guess but I'm an impetuous consumer and would prefer to pick up the goods the next day (through the Warehouses marvelous Click and Collect service)

[Ogg]

Just went to Container Door the kayak is available on 15 February...in time for next summer. So its not actually any competition to WHS at all.

They've sold about 500 this year and done multiple loads. The current one is for delivery next Feb. Pretty solid competition in my opinion. I guess if you want one by Xmas then maybe not.

[Bobdn]

ok, I'm probably feeling overly defensive. A 10% decline in a share price always makes me scratchy :)

[iceman]

Just went to Containerdoor the kayak is available on 15 February...in time for next summer.

Edit: sorry I was a bit hasty with my comment. I see 15 February is the estimated arrival date. At this stage the deal is yet to close, in fact, it's four days and 51 minutes away from closing. "Once we have enough orders to fill a container the deal will go through!" the website says.

If you're not in any hurry Containerdoor might be fine I guess but I'm an impetuous consumer and would prefer to pick up the goods the next day (through the Warehouses marvelous Click and Collect service)

I ordered mine in October and it has arrived in time for summer. Great service and great price !! Bobdn I suspect Containerdoor may be aiming for a customer different to your good self and it is definitely taking away from various retail businesses in NZ. Yet another disruption on a grand scale to our retailers, for better or for worse. Totally unpredictable and the reason I don;t invest in retailers these days.

[winner69]

But a fair chunk of thst growth has come from Noel Leeming and Torpedo7
More acquisitions on horizon to maintain that growth?

Sure have grown since 2012 - revenues gone from $1.7 billion in F12 to just under $2.9 billion in F16

But EBIT is still the same at $125m

But what is an indictment on recent performance is that they are now using nearly $300m more capital (equity plus debt) to achieve this underwhelming performance.

From achieving a ROIC (after tax) of 19% in F12 that has slipped to 11% in F16. I have included profits on property sales as that seems to be part of their business). For most of their history I have admired WHS high ROIC but the new business model seems to be hugely value destructive.

OK, still covering their cost of capital (that's good) but their recent acquisitions (Noel Leeming, Torpedo7) and their foray into financial services has not earned them an iota of economic value - $300m more capital to play with for zilch returns.

The presentations and investor sessions talking about the new 'strategy' doesn't inspire me with confidence. I still believe they have maxed out what they can squeeze out of the business and I reckon that in another 4 years time their financial performance won't be much different from what it currently is.

Punters will still get their say 15 cent dividend because thats what the main share holders demand. Otherwise pretty boring I reckon as a stock to hold and wih rising interest rates a possibility of declining share price. What price a 15 cent dividend over time?

My morbid fascination with WHS continues.

[kiwitrev]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/295313

[macduffy]

Is this going to be a meaningful "operating model change"?; a reaction to an executive leaving the company?; or something else, such as a deckchair rearrangement?

[kiwitrev]

Is this going to be a meaningful "operating model change"?; a reaction to an executive leaving the company?; or something else, such as a deckchair rearrangement?
Difficult to interpret the ann. Mac but I do recall NG stating shortly after news of his appt that changes of this nature would be implemented. It's really about cost cutting by driving better synergies. I have no insight how the model operates but a reduction in lease commitments with some sort of consolidation within the group could be worth looking at for starters?

[mikeybycrikey]

So many meaningless waffle words promising so much.

And how does a company like the Warehouse have 4 CEOs??? Surely they could afford to lose at least one more.

[LAC]

Warehouse needs a Costco type model because they have their finger in too many pies and yet I still have to visit 3 different stores (which they own) to get what I need.

[Balance]

So many meaningless waffle words promising so much.

And how does a company like the Warehouse have 4 CEOs??? Surely they could afford to lose at least one more.

Ego driven titles - one CEO and 3 GMs. Or as the Americans do it, one Senior VP and 3 VPs.

[winner69]

So many meaningless waffle words promising so much.

........

Sure does. Put it through the old buzz saw and it scored pretty high (not that good). Get a lot of buzz phrases and join them together in an announcement and the company is saved.

Too much strategising going on here - where's the execution.

These sort of changes won't make much difference - need to go beyond cost saving.

[bull....]

When amazon opens in Aus sadly that will probably be the end of the red sheds:( in the not to distant future

[couta1]

When amazon opens in Aus sadly that will probably be the end of the red sheds:( in the not to distant future Yeah right, pass the Tui.

[BlackPeter]

So many meaningless waffle words promising so much.

And how does a company like the Warehouse have 4 CEOs??? Surely they could afford to lose at least one more.

So true ... in this time of the year share holders would have expected a (positive) outlook on the Christmas sales instead of meaningless strategic waffle. I guess at least it looks like they save the money for 2 CEO's - but having the guy running the inefficient & always empty Blue Sheds taking over as well the red sheds is in my view not good news for shareholders.

Discl: sold out some weeks ago - must have expected this;

[Graeme]

So true ... in this time of the year share holders would have expected a (positive) outlook on the Christmas sales instead of meaningless strategic waffle. I guess at least it looks like they save the money for 2 CEO's - but having the guy running the inefficient & always empty Blue Sheds taking over as well the red sheds is in my view not good news for shareholders.

Discl: sold out some weeks ago - must have expected this;


Polished the old crystal balls eh? Perhaps sold 'em to the Pascoes? They seem to be gradually increasing their holding and know a little about retail.

Blue sheds have shown consistent revenue growth quarter on quarter for the last few years so someone must shop there. :confused:

[BlackPeter]

Polished the old crystal balls eh? Perhaps sold 'em to the Pascoes? They seem to be gradually increasing their holding and know a little about retail.

Blue sheds have shown consistent revenue growth quarter on quarter for the last few years so someone must shop there. :confused:

Just imagine where the SP would be without the Pascoes buying .... ;) Sure - I assume they have a plan, but this plan is not necessarily aligned with the interests of retail shareholders.

Remember, there have been others before only buying into WHS to make sure that they don't become a successful competitor of theirs.

Anyway - I might be wrong and WHS might be the THL of tomorrow (just SP-wise). I doubt it, but yes, my crystal ball is cloudy ....

[winner69]

With 2 new CEOs appointed to turn things around or whatever I wonder what this fellow Nick is going to do?

I've got it - more strategising methinks

Look forward to his next presentation on the WHS strategy going forward.

[artemis]

I did a fair bit of online buying at the red and blue sheds last year. (Suits me as I don't drive.) Good website. Always very efficient and speedy, with excellent communication and cheap shipping. IMO they have it well sussed and could expand in that direction.

[winner69]

Warehouse continuing margin decline is fascinating - especially in the context of huge sales growth while recording declining profits

Strategic cost savings, as Nick puts it, is an admission the model is broken. Not many companies save their way to prosperity

Sounds like F17 is a continuation of this trend - wonder what F18 and beyond will look like?

Better sell more properties and cut back on capex to prop up that divie at current levels I reckon

[winner69]

Some bad news before Christmas. No doubt more to come

As far as share price goes this year I wonder if the 2 year trading range will hold - or act as some form of support

If not and it goes below 250 and anything could happen - and another attempt to privatize likely

[tim23]

Would love the dividend to be restored to previous levels all the investment in the refurbs is really hard to see and am unsure if its been a great investment?

[winner69]

You'll know if the current Warehouse model is broken when they start reducing footprint and closing stores

Oops - I overlooked that may already be happening as stores don't reopen after earthquakes.

Be interesting to see what Warehouse looks like in a few years time.

[winner69]

Some bad news before Christmas. No doubt more to come

As far as share price goes this year I wonder if the 2 year trading range will hold - or act as some form of support

If not and it goes below 250 and anything could happen - and another attempt to privatize likely

Getting dangerously close to the bottom of that trading range

Will it act as some form of support ....or will the price continue to head south

[winner69]

January electronic card spend data shows really buoyant sales for month

Prompted Westpac guru to say - After such a strong gain in January, it wouldn’t be surprising to see some moderation in spending in February. However, the outlook for retail spending over the coming year is very positive

Probably The Warehouse stuffed up again and missing out on the current boom

Nick needs to get back to word smithing that Strategy of his - but better if he actually executed

[winner69]

Shareholders love 'mass sackings'

Nick oin the case thats good

Only a sign the company is in more trouble than they let on - next step will be store staff and then store closures and then .....

What does the future really hold for WHS

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11800239

[winner69]

Margin squeeze at JB Hi Fi in NZ hurts profits

Just as well Noel Leeming don't have this problem eh

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11799717

[BlackPeter]

Shareholders love 'mass sackings'

Nick oin the case thats good

Only a sign the company is in more trouble than they let on - next step will be store staff and then store closures and then .....

...


Maybe ... on the other hand - what good would it be to buy all these additional companies if they afterwards don't try to rationalise central functions (I think in Corp Speak this is "using the synergy effect")?

If you own 7 companies (or so) than it makes sense to align purchase department, admin, finance, legal department and so on. And unless you manage to grow all of these businesses in proportion to the savings it means job losses. Could be a good and proactive thing for the Warehouse to reduce cost without reducing service ... wondering why they didn't do that already years ago.

discl: not holding ... you still might be right ;);

[Balance]

Margin squeeze at JB Hi Fi in NZ hurts profits

Just as well Noel Leeming don't have this probel eh

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11799717

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Warehouse need to fundamentally change its offering as a lot of stuff in its stores are either obsolete (DVDs, CDs, toys), uncompetitive (groceries especially) or crap quality (electronics, furniture and camping gear) at a time when price points are dropping year by year.

Hard hard road ahead.

[Bobdn]

You mean electronic brands like Apple, Sony and Panasonic? Yeah OK.

[winner69]

Maybe ... on the other hand - what good would it be to buy all these additional companies if they afterwards don't try to rationalise central functions (I think in Corp Speak this is "using the synergy effect")?

If you own 7 companies (or so) than it makes sense to align purchase department, admin, finance, legal department and so on. And unless you manage to grow all of these businesses in proportion to the savings it means job losses. Could be a good and proactive thing for the Warehouse to reduce cost without reducing service ... wondering why they didn't do that already years ago.

discl: not holding ... you still might be right ;);

They already done some of that sort of stuff at head office - this is round three, prob in response to the Divisional CEO structure in place.

Still can't work out what Nick's job is - except continually word smithing his strategy papers and presentations.

[Balance]

You mean electronic brands like Apple, Sony and Panasonic? Yeah OK.

If only the Warehouse sold a decent range of these brands, would be fantastic but it doesn't. Instead, Xeon and all kinds of strange sounding brands profilerate in their electronics section.

[huxley]

You mean electronic brands like Apple, Sony and Panasonic? Yeah OK.

I guess the point is whether the business model still resonates with consumers. I think their core market appears to be threatened by competitors who are better at meeting customer demand and at similar pricing. Big change needed...

[macduffy]

I'd sell my miserably small WHS holding if I didn't have such a brilliant record of culling non-performers just before they receive unexpected takeover offers. TWR was my last such!

:(

[Bobdn]

I'm the same. WHS is my worst performing share. Was TTK.

[BIRMANBOY]

I don't know what all of you sad sacks are moaning about. What do you expect from an investment? My average buy price is 2.79 and for the last 5 years of owning it has returned as a gross yield before tax of 11%, 10.4%, 9.23%, 7.5% and 7.91%. (last year). Just set and forget.

[Bobdn]

Great returns there!

I'm going to keep mine. Yesterday I got a $50 WHS gift card in the mail because I spent more than $500 on my WHS money card over Christmas. I'll make sure those dividends keep on coming.

[BIRMANBOY]

Well thanks for your efforts :) I try and buy in periodically if the SP gets low to keep my holding price low. However its not a bad return especially when you compare it to other options and since I don't want all my eggs in one basket it is a reasonably reliable producer to offset the occasional dud.
Great returns there!

I'm going to keep mine. Yesterday I got a $50 WHS gift card in the mail because I spent more than $500 on my WHS money card over Christmas. I'll make sure those dividends keep on coming.

[kiwitrev]

More on HO layoffs. 1000 staff at HO-must be able to make significant cuts.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/89394995/the-warehouse-group-head-office-job-losses-rumoured

[winner69]

When Buffett sells his Walmart stake you know the day of the big box retailer is coming to an end

Seems a familiar story
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/89437498/warren-buffett-just-dumped-walmart-does-it-signal-the-death-of-retail-as-we-know-it

[winner69]

Quote from that story

"Retailing is like shooting at a moving target," Warren Buffett said in 2005, questioning whether it' possible to save a retailer once the rot sets in.

[winner69]

I don't know what all of you sad sacks are moaning about. What do you expect from an investment? My average buy price is 2.79 and for the last 5 years of owning it has returned as a gross yield before tax of 11%, 10.4%, 9.23%, 7.5% and 7.91%. (last year). Just set and forget.

Well done

Asking a pay cut this year with reduced dividend even on your $2.79 average

[Ogg]

So I got a "Red Alert" email the other week advertising a Brother Sewing machine. The price was $159 marked down from $199.

The offer included a $50 cash back from Brother valid until the 20 February 2017.

I bought it online on the 11th of Feb, thinking it would take 2 days for delivery (which is states on the website). But a whole week goes by and nothing arrives, no delivery confirmation either. I'm thinking it may have gotten lost or missed. I emailed them about it, days go by but no response.

I called them this morning. Apparently it's in "pre order". Gee, thanks for letting me know, so how long until it's in stock? "Don't know". Great, the cash back ends today though, "do you want a refund", no lol.

Then I go back online. Now it's advertised cheaper at $155 and with no mention that it's out of stock.

http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/brother-sewing-machine-ja1400/R2145115.html

I'm done

http://i.imgur.com/Jdgz5P8.gif

[JayRiggs]

Haha, all this talk of "operating model changes" - essentially they're just laying off 130 people.

The Warehouse Group - Operating Model Announcement Feb 2017 2:23pm, 23 Feb 2017 | GENERAL 23 February 2017
The Warehouse Group Confirms Operating Model Changes
Further to an announcement on 10 January 2017 which outlined changes to our Group operating model, the Warehouse Group Board is providing an update to the market on progress.
Over the past few weeks, The Warehouse Group has consulted with its teams located at the Group’s Store Support Office in Auckland in addition to some regional centres. Store teams do not form part of this process.
The consultation included structures designed to combine the leadership of both The Warehouse and Warehouse Stationery, along with the separate combined leadership of Noel Leeming and Torpedo7. It also includes moving the support structures that service these brands, to be Group-wide.
Group CEO Nick Grayston said the new organisational structure is needed to drive sustainable profitability and reduce complexity in a rapidly changing retail market.
“Our teams have shared their views on our proposed changes and we can now confirm team structures. Discussions with team members are ongoing with a view to supporting those who are impacted through a redeployment process.”
“Once the redeployment process concludes, with appointments made into newly formed roles, we will be able to confirm the number of people who may leave the business. At this stage, we are anticipating a net reduction of around 130 roles and we will be doing everything we can to support our team members during this time.” said Mr Grayston.

It is too early to quantify exact financial impacts to the Group, but estimates are net cost savings to the Group’s overall annualised costs of doing business of roughly between $15m and $20m which includes salary savings and reductions in areas such as external provider costs, operational and other overheads.
One-time restructuring costs are estimated to be between $10m and $13m which will be incurred in FY17.
Transition to the new structure will occur during the fourth quarter of this financial year (FY17). The cost reduction impacts will not be realised until FY18.
A further update will be provided as part of our Interim Results briefings on 9 March 2017.


https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/297310

[kiwitrev]

Haha, all this talk of "operating model changes" - essentially they're just laying off 130 people.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/297310
I'm afraid some people are incapable of digesting all the information and just cherry-pick the headline that suits their purpose.

[Beagle]

Good luck to shoppers trying to find a staff member to help them with their product enquiry now ! Expect even longer queue's at the checkout's too.

[winner69]

Good luck to shoppers trying to find a staff member to help them with their product enquiry now ! Expect even longer queue's at the checkout's too.

Store staff numbers not affected with this - that's next years exercise

Betcha stores get disrupted somehow with this 'centralisation' of functions.

That Nick needs to go - after all he has 2 CEOs under him

[Beagle]

Store staff numbers not affected with this - that's next years exercise

Betcha stores get disrupted somehow with this 'centralisation' of functions.

That Nick needs to go - after all he has 2 CEOs under him

Yeah I noticed that in the press release mate. My comment refers to the certainty of further rationalization in due course as they try and milk this tired old brand for all its worth. Hound got ahead of himself.

[JayRiggs]

I'm afraid some people are incapable of digesting all the information and just cherry-pick the headline that suits their purpose.

It's sad that 130 people are laid off.
Until Warehouse Group can improve their earnings for shareholders, then this announcement is meaningless waffle. I don't see things improving for this old dog, but happy to be proven wrong if results improve.

[winner69]

That $20m will help the bottom line eventually ....if it all goes to plan .... and sales don't decline

$20m is equivalent to the gross margin on $60m of sales - about 2% of turnover -must be a hidden message in that somewhere

Just a note - previous cost cutting / efficiecy drives / improved productivity initiatives have done squat all for the bottom line .... so I wouod be asking Nick what's different this time

[winner69]

It's sad that 130 people are laid off.
Until Warehouse Group can improve their earnings for shareholders, then this announcement is meaningless waffle. I don't see things improving for this old dog, but happy to be proven wrong if results improve.

Yes always sad when hard working people lose their jobs ....must be galling for them that the man at the top
will probably be earning in excess of $2m this year (more than 50 times the average wage of a Watrehouse Group employee)

Wonder who will be losing the most sleep

But shareholders will be happy

[JayRiggs]

That $20m will help the bottom line eventually ....if it all goes to plan .... and sales don't decline

$20m is equivalent to the gross margin on $60m of sales - about 2% of turnover -must be a hidden message in that somewhere

Just a note - previous cost cutting / efficiecy drives / improved productivity initiatives have done squat all for the bottom line .... so I wouod be asking Nick what's different this time

Yeah you hit the nail in the head, what's different this time?

A recap of some numbers over the past decade.

Group Revenue ($000)
2006: 1,720,479
2016: 2,945,034
+71%

Group Net Profits ($000)
2006: 95,124
2016: 64,110
-32.6%

Dividends
2006: 16c
2016: 16c
0%

Selling heaps more stuff (with Noel Leeming + Torpedo7 today) but bottom line has gone backwards.
No growth in the dividend or share price. 10 years ago a share price was around $6 and now it's $2.66.
Not a good investment.

On a different matter, I noticed Warehouse prices ALOT of their stuff wrong, especially in the grocery section, it's always more expensive than at Countdown/PaknSave.
e.g. Colgate Plax 300ml mouth wash is $6.49 at the Warehouse vs $4.29 at PaknSave.
Makes me wonder why they even bother selling supermarket products, it must be hindering them.

[kiwico]

There is still so much losing of income from their various schemes. During January a $20 voucher was on offer if spending at least $200 during one transaction. Buy a $200+ item using the Warehouse Money credit card, get 5% off, receive the $20 voucher, take the back to get typically a refund without the 5% discount attached.

If there's free postage for items over $100 but the item you want costs less, buy two (or three) to get the free postage and return the others later.

Re returns, an item I returned this morning had the staff member checking the contents of the box were all there. First time I've seen but I'm all for it. According to the staff member she had seen an instance where a box for a pricey pair of headphones was returned with just a potato inside, the fraudster relying on the box not being opened as the weight would be about right.

It can be hard enough to make money without so much going out the back door.

[Ogg]

So I got a "Red Alert" email the other week advertising a Brother Sewing machine. The price was $159 marked down from $199.

The offer included a $50 cash back from Brother valid until the 20 February 2017.

I bought it online on the 11th of Feb, thinking it would take 2 days for delivery (which is states on the website). But a whole week goes by and nothing arrives, no delivery confirmation either. I'm thinking it may have gotten lost or missed. I emailed them about it, days go by but no response.

I called them this morning. Apparently it's in "pre order". Gee, thanks for letting me know, so how long until it's in stock? "Don't know". Great, the cash back ends today though, "do you want a refund", no lol.

Then I go back online. Now it's advertised cheaper at $155 and with no mention that it's out of stock.

http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/brother-sewing-machine-ja1400/R2145115.html

I'm done

http://i.imgur.com/Jdgz5P8.gif

Just an update regarding my order.

There was another "special" this week at the warehouse for an even cheaper price of $149, and the same cash back offer was extended another week. Just lol.

I rang the company and they still couldn't give me an update regarding stock levels, even though the new special offer was being advertised again.

I ended up canceling my order from 2 weeks ago, and then rebuying it again mintues later for the cheaper price of $149. And what do you know... it arrived 2 days later, lol.

I got the $50 cash back too, so ended up with a nice new sewing machine for $99.

They just put the courier sticker on the box, didn't bother to wrap it.

To give them credit the phone support was quick and easy.

I'll buy from them again.

[winner69]

Close today at $2.55

Another day like today and it will down to prices not seem since last century

Not surprising - share price following company performance.

How's the word smithing of the strategy update doing Nick - might be better if you got out amongst the troops and more importantly your customers.

[JeremyALD]

Serious question, but does anything new the Warehouse try ever work?


Moving into Australia
Trying to sell liquor
Creating instore pharmacies
Starting the Warehouse Extra and trying to compete with supermarkets
Starting Warehouse Mobile and opening with terrible, confusing plans in a hypercompetitive market and not offering any bundle deals
Starting Warehouse Money in a completely saturated market. Also they learnt nothing from the gaint flop that was One Card Visa in Countdown Supermarkets. In fact they hired the GM of that project for their venture. What did you get? The exact same outcome. Then they leverage out their interest free offers to Lattitude Financial Services where the most money is made? The model is crap.


The only good things they have done is when they focus on their core business or extending it, e.g. buying Noel Leeming. They seriously need to learn a few lessons from Briscoes (which by the way in now New Zealand's largest listed retailer).

[macduffy]

Fair comment, Jeremy. More attention to improving the core business and less "new initiatives" just might save this company from what now appears to be a slow decline.

[winner69]

Nick in lockdown today - word smithing his presentation for tomorrow to perfection.

Must be hard to put things in good light to give hope to shareholders and the market.

[Balance]

Nick in lockdown today - word smithing his presentation for tomorrow to perfection.

Must be hard to put things in good light to give hope to shareholders and the market.

Only one shareholder who matters?

Tindall as principal shareholder is well and truly past his used by date - should do the decent thing and sell off his stake so somebody else can reboot and reset the company.

If Briscoes can outgrow the Warehouse, it shows what the right shareholder and right management can do.

[winner69]

Well that 1/2 year announcement was a bit dismal

But as long as “The second half of this financial year will therefore represent a period of transition as we prepare the organisation for future success whilst at the same time ensuring we stabilise current performance trends" works out it's all hunky dory

Guidance is normalised EPS of ~16 cents - and to pay a 15 cent divie - hmm that's a new divie policy being enacted.

[Balance]

Serious question, but does anything new the Warehouse try ever work?


Moving into Australia
Trying to sell liquor
Creating instore pharmacies
Starting the Warehouse Extra and trying to compete with supermarkets
Starting Warehouse Mobile and opening with terrible, confusing plans in a hypercompetitive market and not offering any bundle deals
Starting Warehouse Money in a completely saturated market. Also they learnt nothing from the gaint flop that was One Card Visa in Countdown Supermarkets. In fact they hired the GM of that project for their venture. What did you get? The exact same outcome. Then they leverage out their interest free offers to Lattitude Financial Services where the most money is made? The model is crap.


The only good things they have done is when they focus on their core business or extending it, e.g. buying Noel Leeming. They seriously need to learn a few lessons from Briscoes (which by the way in now New Zealand's largest listed retailer).

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/298018

Results confirm WHS directors and management have run out of ideas and strategies to reverse its declining year by year fortune.

Its offerings are stuck in no man's land - a lot of rubbish (out dated DVDs, CDs and grocery items more expensive than the supermarket next door) taking up 'precious' retail space (which it does not know how to use), duplication of products across its divisions (eg. selling electronics & appliances via WHS & Noel Leeming) and still seen as a low end store selling crap (buy a $1,000 engagement ring from WHS? Seriously?).

Desperately need a reset - with new shareholders and directors.

[winner69]

Shame about the $22m impairment on the Financial Services side of the business

And this was going to be a game changer

But maybe hope - still in 'pre-launch' whatever that means

[bull....]

hardly surprising result of increasing revenue at the expense of margin.
Agree there product mix is terrible, taking on multiple better run companies in various categories dooms them also been saying for ages there inventory management is rubbish.
When amazon arrives with lower freight and prices warehouse red sheds is doomed.

On a positive the other stuff looks good

[couta1]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/WHS/announcements/298018

Results confirm WHS directors and management have run out of ideas and strategies to reverse its declining year by year fortune.

Its offerings are stuck in no man's land - a lot of rubbish (out dated DVDs, CDs and grocery items more expensive than the supermarket next door) taking up 'precious' retail space (which it does not know how to use), duplication of products across its divisions (eg. selling electronics & appliances via WHS & Noel Leeming) and still seen as a low end store selling crap (buy a $1,000 engagement ring from WHS? Seriously?).

Desperately need a reset - with new shareholders and directors. Actually my wife did get her engagement ring from the WHS which came with a genuine valuation certificate, she likes it so much that she doesn't bother to wear her wedding ring anymore. Disc-Dont hold.

[winner69]

hardly surprising result of increasing revenue at the expense of margin.
Agree there product mix is terrible, taking on multiple better run companies in various categories dooms them also been saying for ages there inventory management is rubbish.
When amazon arrives with lower freight and prices warehouse red sheds is doomed.

On a positive the other stuff looks good

Gerry Harvey is going to stop that parasite Amazon in its tracks I read in the paper the other day

[bull....]

Gerry Harvey is going to stop that parasite Amazon in its tracks I read in the paper the other day

haha Gerry is really worried too.

[winner69]

haha Gerry is really worried too.

Had to smile reading how Amazon won't be able to service places like Dubbo efficiently but you can go to Harvey Norman and get it delivered that day at no extra cost ...keep the parasite out of Australia

[Balance]

Actually my wife did get her engagement ring from the WHS which came with a genuine valuation certificate, she likes it so much that she doesn't bother to wear her wedding ring anymore. Disc-Dont hold.

Good on her (and you). Sincerely meant.

Problem for WHS is that it is having to discount its jewellery items like crazy to clear stock right throughout the year, but especially around the festive season. Know a bit about the jewellery trade as a business contact sells jewellery online and buys from the Warehouse during their sales!

Bit like corner dairies buying their stuff from Pak n Save to sell. Difference is that Pak n Save sells serious volumes and get great deep discounts from its suppliers.

[whatsup]

I think the "best/only " future for WHS would the let the directors of Pascoes , the Norman family take a 51% share in WHS and install the commercial discipline that they did with Farmers and other companies that they have taken over otherwise there is possible no future here.
What WHS did to scores of small Mom and Dad businesses destroying them in the process throughout N Z over the last 25 + years is now being done to them !!.

[bull....]

Had to smile reading how Amazon won't be able to service places like Dubbo efficiently but you can go to Harvey Norman and get it delivered that day at no extra cost ...keep the parasite out of Australia

transport is no issue didn't Gerry know amazon use drones so im sure that fridge delivering drone will arrive quicker than you can drive to the nearest Harvey norman

[Balance]

I think the "best/only " future for WHS would the let the directors of Pascoes , the Norman family take a 51% share in WHS and install the commercial discipline that they did with Farmers and other companies that they have taken over otherwise there is possible no future here.
What WHS did to scores of small Mom and Dad businesses destroying them in the process throughout N Z over the last 25 + years is now being done to them !!.

Karma - the 2 dollar shops have decimated WHS's high volume low cost businesses like X'mas decorations etc.

[winner69]

Bull... It's all OK - wHS prepared for Amazon

Warehouse Group says it is a question of when not if Amazon arrives in New Zealand and estimates the online shopping giant will strip $4 billion to $5 billion out of Australia's retail market while becoming a more convenient option for Kiwi shoppers.

Chief executive Nick Grayston said e-commerce only makes up about 10 percent of the New Zealand market, much lower than in other developed countries. But Warehouse has to prepare for increased disruption and part of the response is to move away from a "transactional relationship" with customers where price is the only determinant, to "an engagement model" which could include walk-in health clinics, a return to pharmacies, financial advice and mobile services.

"Amazon's already a threat but one we're embracing to make ourselves better," Grayston said. "We know we will not compete only on price."

Based in Australia, Amazon would be able to service New Zealand "a lot quicker" than when local shoppers were placing orders to the UK or the US.


http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/591f5330/warehouse-prepares-for-amazon-juggernaut-by-upping-customer-engagement-adding-services.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Warehouse%20prepares%20for%20Amazon%2 0juggernaut%20by%20upping%20customer%20engagement% 20adding%20services&utm_content=Warehouse%20prepares%20for%20Amazon%20 juggernaut%20by%20upping%20customer%20engagement%2 0adding%20services+CID_6ae1665e992d8894369cee69e1b b7211&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle591f5330wareho use-prepares-for-amazon-juggernaut-by-upping-customer-engagement-adding-serviceshtml

[Beagle]

Karma - the 2 dollar shops have decimated WHS's high volume low cost businesses like X'mas decorations etc.

Agree 100%. More and more people are realizing where the location of their new local and far cheaper Warehouse is, some would argue they're the real warehouse now and that's an argument with a fair bit of validity in my opinion. Not surprised WHS are finding it difficult to gain traction with their financials services group. Who would want to pull out a warehouse credit card at anywhere other than the warehouse ? In a day and age when some banks are throwing Gold card pre approved letters out to some beneficiaries, its hardly surprising that some customers feel better about themselves flashing a gold card than a warehouse card. WHS best described as a very tired and very mature brand in my opinion.

[Bobdn]

I pull out my WHS credit card. But I get your point: people like to act rich in New Zealand by pulling out their platinum cards, even though their networth might be pitiful.

With no fees and a juicy 5 per cent discount at the Warehouse, I say, give WHS Money a try ;)

[bull....]

be interesting to see there new model, obviously admitting the last few years of upgrading and changing the model were a utter failure. Cutting costs gives them time for another crack at it I guess although time is running out and it could be the last crack to remain relevant in some way.

Expect a dividend downgrade at some stage

[kura]

With no fees and a juicy 5 per cent discount at the Warehouse, I say, give WHS Money a try ;)

My application for one was declined, despite owning some reasonable assets.
Gee I would have been happy with a debit card that I could pre load with funds, but Nope.

[Bobdn]

Yes me too, had to apply twice and the second application was also rejected. So I sent a terse email and asked for it to be passed onto the CE which somehow worked. I have a good income and low debt. And my mother is doing even better than me and she was rejected!!! I'm not making any of this up. Warehouse Money has been an absolute shambles.

[Baa_Baa]

Yes me too, had to apply twice and the second application was also rejected. So I sent a terse email and asked for it to be passed onto the CE which somehow worked. I have a good income and low debt. And my mother is doing even better than me and she was rejected!!! I'm not making any of this up. Warehouse Money has been an absolute shambles.

I think I've said before, you need to be heavily indebted, no assets, preferably on the dole as well, then you'll have no problem getting credit. The system targets the vulnerable, not someone who pays their debt balance religiously so they can't milk their finance margins for eternity. Think about it, it's a terrible business model signing up people who can pay back their debts.

[huxley]

I think I've said before, you need to be heavily indebted, no assets, preferably on the dole as well, then you'll have no problem getting credit. The system targets the vulnerable, not someone who pays their debt balance religiously so they can't milk their finance margins for eternity. Think about it, it's a terrible business model signing up people who can pay back their debts.


Or you could just earn the interchange fees… Easy gig :cool:

[JeremyALD]

I really don't know what they were thinking with Warehouse Money. What made them think it was a good idea in a saturated market? Credit card loyalty programmes outside of AIR NZ and Cashback have had very little success here.

As Roger mentioned having a WHS credit card is not cool. Just like Warehouse Mobile is not cool. The brand is just tired and old. It reminds me a bit of Telecom before they refreshed to Spark and starting attracting the younger generation again.

Kmart is a good example of refreshing your brand and becoming a cool and fun place to shop at cheap prices. You go into the stores and they look more fresh and exciting. WHS stores like look Pak n Save and I'm not sure that's a good thing.

[Bobdn]

I'm fine with the WHS look. The more pallets loaded up with goods the better. Is NZ Kmart doing well? Kmart international isn't:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/08/investing/kmart-sales-decline-sears-eddie-lampert/

Here's one retailer that has got it right in the states:

http://www.cnbc.com/the-costco-craze-inside-the-warehouse-giant/

[JeremyALD]

I'm fine with the WHS look. The more pallets loaded up with goods the better. Is NZ Kmart doing well? Kmart international isn't:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/08/investing/kmart-sales-decline-sears-eddie-lampert/

Here's one retailer that has got it right in the states:

http://www.cnbc.com/the-costco-craze-inside-the-warehouse-giant/

It's run separately in New Zealand and Australia. They've had a lot of success here with their refurbs

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11721407

[couta1]

I really don't know what they were thinking with Warehouse Money. What made them think it was a good idea in a saturated market? Credit card loyalty programmes outside of AIR NZ and Cashback have had very little success here.

As Roger mentioned having a WHS credit card is not cool. Just like Warehouse Mobile is not cool. The brand is just tired and old. It reminds me a bit of Telecom before they refreshed to Spark and starting attracting the younger generation again.

Kmart is a good example of refreshing your brand and becoming a cool and fun place to shop at cheap prices. You go into the stores and they look more fresh and exciting. WHS stores like look Pak n Save and I'm not sure that's a good thing. Nothing wrong with WHS mobile, I've got a 4G phone of theirs and their prepay rates are sharp eg $4 currently for 1GB of data, I don't use my phone to make calls so casual data and text rates are just perfect. PS-WHS mobile uses the 2 degrees network but offers cheaper prepay rates.

[huxley]

Feels a bit like confirmation bias going on regarding the value of this brand...
I'd say they've lost focus of their core market - where is the target customer? And how are they meeting their needs better (or at least par) than other participants?

Focus business model (why do they exist , who would miss them if they were gone tomorrow) and exit areas where they're uncompetitive.

[macduffy]

It's run separately in New Zealand and Australia. They've had a lot of success here with their refurbs

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11721407

Not only run separately, it's owned separately, as I recall.

[winner69]

Jeez - if Nick believes this his company is stuffed - listen to him here
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201836101

Hope he doesn't talk to customers and staff like this - after all isn't the objective in this new data rich ecosystem 'connecting' and 'proactively engaging' with customers? In other words you need to talk their language

[JeremyALD]

Nothing wrong with WHS mobile, I've got a 4G phone of theirs and their prepay rates are sharp eg $4 currently for 1GB of data, I don't use my phone to make calls so casual data and text rates are just perfect. PS-WHS mobile uses the 2 degrees network but offers cheaper prepay rates.

The problem is Couta it didn't start like that. When Warehouse Mobile launched it was confusing and data plans uncompetitive, you also couldn't buy bundles. They got a lot of backlash.

Now their packs are better but when 2 degrees is already struggling to attract valuable customers I struggle to see how WHS is going to make any money out of their mobile business model. They aren't going to get high value customers.

[Pipi]

I have a warehouse mobile, prices are great, their coverage is crap. Always struggling to send texts, quite often lose coverage all together. Not happy at all, will be changing very soon.

[BlackPeter]

Jeez - if Nick believes this his company is stuffed - listen to him here
http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=201836101

Hope he doesn't talk to customers and staff like this - after all isn't the objective in this new data rich ecosystem 'connecting' and 'proactively engaging' with customers? In other words you need to talk their language

Agree - they certainly don't try to put lipstick on this pig ;); Not sure, whether this will get right again, probably a good time to watch from the side lines ...

[Balance]

I have a warehouse mobile, prices are great, their coverage is crap. Always struggling to send texts, quite often lose coverage all together. Not happy at all, will be changing very soon.

2 Degrees for mobile? Been there, done that and could not get out of there fast enough!

Calls dropping off for no reason and being unable to connect to the internet while on the move - unbelievable!