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minimoke
06-09-2007, 02:17 PM
I missed my chance at this years investor competion but thought a new one might be worthwhile. What about a competion on who we would get out of rather than who we would invest in. The name of the game is to pick the next collapse. The winner picks the next one to go.

With the wisdom of hindsight my picks are:
1) LDC Finance - gone Sept 07
2) Finance and Investments - gone Sept 07
3) Nathans Finance - Gone Aug 07
4) Bridgecorp- Gone July 07
5) Five Star Consumer Finance- gone April 07
6) National Finance 2000 - Gone May 06
7) Provincial Finance Limited- Gone June 06
8) Property Finance Group - gone Aug 07
9) Western Bay Finance Limited- Gone Aug 06

Now its your turn to pick from:

1) Anglican Development Fund
2) Allied Nationwide. CEO John Mall came from St Laurence in 2007 Receivership 20 August 2010
3) AMP freezes $420m property fund August 08
4) Ashburton Finance (became part of SCF not sure when)
5) Asset Finance Ltd (withdrew from Deposit Guarantee Scheme in No 2009 - but still OK) Credit rating B negative
6) AXA freezes $117m in Property fund August 2008
7) Bastion Finance Ltd - closed January 2009 due to changing business conditions
8) Belgrave Finance Ltd - Gone May 08
9) Beneficial Finance Ltd - moratorium on repayments Oct 07
10) Boston Finance - recievership Nov 2009
11) Broadlands Finance (got S&P BB- in Feb 2010)
12) Business Finance
13) Capital and Merchant Finance - gone Nov 07
14) Chancery Finance - in more trouble August 07
15) Clegg and Co - gone Oct 07
16) City Wide Capital
17) Dominion Finance - in trouble June 08
18) Dorchester finance - prospectus withdrawn June 08
19) Equitable
20) Evia Finance
21) FAI Finance
22) Finance Direct
23) Fairfield Finance - gone August 2010 as part of SCF receivership
24) Fairview Finance (nee Cymbus) - gone May 08
25) FE Investments
26) Fisher and Paykel Finance
27) FMG - closed for business March 2009
28) Geneva Finance - selected to go buy Sector Surfa and QOH (well done!) - stopped taking deposits Oct 07
29) G2 Finance
30) General Finance
31) Guardian Trust - $249m Mortgage funds frozen July 2008
32) Gold Band Finance
33) Hanover Finance; $0.05b frozen July 08
34) IMP Diversified Income Fund 0 moratorium june 2008
35) Instant Finance - selected to go by georgeofthejungle and SectorSurfa
36) Kiwi Finance - gone April 08
37) Lombard Finance and Investments - gone April 08
38) Mascot Finance Gone March 09
39) Marac
40) Medical Securities
41) MFS Pacific - defaulted on loan repayments Feb 08 (now OPI Finance)
MFS Boston (parent MFS Finance) - stay in redemptions April 08
42) Mutual Credit Finance
43) Mutual Finance gone and drawing on ht eGovt Deposit Guarantee July 2010.
44) NZ Finance
45) North South Finance - in trouble June 08 (alnong with Dominion Finance)
46) Numeria Finance - gone Dec 07
48) OPI Finance - (nee MFS Pacific)
49) Orange Finance - ceased to offer new debentures August 08
50) Oxford Finance $3.1m deficit facing wall of maturities as at July 2010
51) PGG Wrightson Finance
52) Property Finance Securities voluntary liquidation May 2010
53) Presbyterian Savings
54) Priority Finance - just disappeared, don't know when.
55) Prometheus Finance
56) Public Trust
57) Rockforte - recievership April 2010
58) Riflemen - Selected by ShrewdCrude
59) Savings and Loans
60) St Kilda Finance; Calls it quits August 08
61) - St Laurence - In strife June 2008 iN Recievership April 2010
62) Southland Finance - suspect they've gone as their website links to SCF
63) South Canterbury Finance In Receivership 31 August 2010.
64) Spiers Finance - taken over by Allied Nationwide in 2008 - so they are now gone.
65) Strata Finance - default Apr 09
66) Strategic Finance - Selected to go by Possumthecat.$330m frozen August 08. Recievership March 2010
67) Technology holdings
68) UDC
69) United Finance - moratorium Jul 2008
70) Vision Securities - recievership April 2010

Addons:
71) BlueChip - selected by Stranger Danger - pretty much gone!
72) Money Managers - selected by Arbitrage. Sold up in 2008 - but like a phoenix its rising again as MMG
73 - Finance and Leasing. In Receivership owing $17m Jan 2011

jke_brown
06-09-2007, 02:21 PM
minimoke good to see you are running a Divestor Contest.

so I have 9 choices from the list you have provided? can I choose one's that are not in your list?

minimoke
06-09-2007, 02:26 PM
minimoke good to see you are running a Divestor Contest.

so I have 9 choices from the list you have provided? can I choose one's that are not in your list?

Please do - I don't think it a toatally comprhensive list. There are probably other areas we are thnking of moving our funds out of. I'll edit as your suggestions come in.

minimoke
06-09-2007, 02:36 PM
Here’s a dilemma. Do I put Blue Chip Financial (*Thanks Stranger Danger)on the list?. They were listed on NZX but moved off shore and I’m thinking the contest should last a bit more than an hour.

bermuda
06-09-2007, 03:32 PM
I got caught with a few $ in Access Brokerage but I got it all back.

I currently have about $60k with Direct Broking earning interest awaiting the chance to buy into the market.
Are Direct Broking OK?

Also have some interest in UDC who I have always thought AOK.

Value any Comments

minimoke
06-09-2007, 03:45 PM
I got caught with a few $ in Access Brokerage but I got it all back.

I currently have about $60k with Direct Broking earning interest awaiting the chance to buy into the market.
Are Direct Broking OK?

Also have some interest in UDC who I have always thought AOK.

Value any Comments

Bermuda
I already have Dorchester on my list. They are the issue and manager of Direct Brokings Call account. Since you still have $60k with them I presume yours isn't a vote for Dorchester in this comp!

Dr_Who
06-09-2007, 03:50 PM
WOW.. there is alot of finance companies out there. Way too many!

POSSUM THE CAT
06-09-2007, 03:54 PM
Number 56 Strategic Finance

FTG
06-09-2007, 04:06 PM
I got caught with a few $ in Access Brokerage but I got it all back.

I currently have about $60k with Direct Broking earning interest awaiting the chance to buy into the market.
Are Direct Broking OK?

Also have some interest in UDC who I have always thought AOK.

Value any Comments

Bermuda, DB have just sent out the 2007 Financials to all holders. You will see that the funds on account are deposited with the various main trading banks - all on short term deposits. Nothing in banking is guaranteed of course, but I would suggest if these deposits have problems, then the $60K there will be the least of your worries.

Arbitrage
06-09-2007, 04:08 PM
Does Money Managers Ltd count? I notice they list Stockco Finance Ltd, Structured Finance Ltd, Totara First Mortgage Fund, and LM Mortgage Income Fund on their website. You might want to add these to your list..

minimoke
06-09-2007, 04:20 PM
Does Money Managers Ltd count? I notice they list Stockco Finance Ltd, Structured Finance Ltd, Totara First Mortgage Fund, and LM Mortgage Income Fund on their website. You might want to add these to your list..

Arbitrage.
I'll add "Money Managers - any one of their products" to the list once I work out how to edit a post. I can't find that scissor icon anywhere!

Is this where you'd like a vote to go?

georgeofthejungle
06-09-2007, 04:32 PM
Next to go - 30. Instant Finance

Just a random guess...do get sick of their annoying ads so its almost a wish that they go!

clips
07-09-2007, 08:34 AM
Number 56 Strategic Finance

gee Possum you seem to have the knife out for this company .... what have they done wrong ??

disc. I've had money with them for some years and am still comfortable about it.

POSSUM THE CAT
07-09-2007, 08:53 AM
Clips I have held deposits with them for 5 years to finally withdrawn final deposit in July. Changes in ownership management and investment philosophy have made this an entirely different company than first deposited with. Also the pressure to renew term deposits very early. This makes me very suspicious.

Dr_Who
07-09-2007, 11:21 AM
Does Money Managers Ltd count? I notice they list Stockco Finance Ltd, Structured Finance Ltd, Totara First Mortgage Fund, and LM Mortgage Income Fund on their website. You might want to add these to your list..

I cant believe money managers are still running after they put their clients into that over valued apartment in Lorne St.

thereslifeafter87
07-09-2007, 12:30 PM
I got caught with a few $ in Access Brokerage but I got it all back.

I currently have about $60k with Direct Broking earning interest awaiting the chance to buy into the market.
Are Direct Broking OK?

Also have some interest in UDC who I have always thought AOK.

Value any Comments

I was a bit worried about the Direct Broking Call Account as it is owned by Dorchester Funds. However, I received the annual report today, and it appears that all the funds in the account are invested in bank term deposits, with minimal liabilities to speak of.

So I would say it is quite safe.

BRICKS
10-09-2007, 05:34 PM
I cant believe money managers are still running after they put their clients into that over valued apartment in Lorne St.

YOUR best point Dr Who is the DUCK..

minimoke
10-09-2007, 05:52 PM
Votes so far go to Strategic Finance, Instant Finance and Geneva Finance. Money Managers will go on the list once I figure out how to edit it.

minimoke
11-09-2007, 01:45 PM
To add some spice to the competition “Geneva is one of only five finance companies in New Zealand that has a credit rating from one of the big three international ratings agencies. The other companies with ratings are UDC, Marac, South Canterbury Finance and Hanover Finance.
At the moment Geneva has a B+ rating, which is a "speculative grade" rating. The so-called "investment grade" ratings are BBB- or higher. UDC, Marac and South Canterbury Finance all have investment grade ratings.”

Geneva has just been put on a Credit Watch with negative implications. So come on folks, lets have your votes.

QOH
11-09-2007, 02:01 PM
I expect to hear it's Geneva.

Crypto Crude
13-09-2007, 01:01 PM
My pick in the divestor contest for the next company to get 'gunned down' is #49 on minimokes list, which is 'Riflemen'
:D
.^sc

Arbitrage
13-09-2007, 01:24 PM
Any reason (apart from the name)? Directors look okay and has a "cofunding relationship" with larger overseas partner...

Crypto Crude
13-09-2007, 03:41 PM
Arbitrage,
Do you think Im being serious?
This company wont go down lighty, I add... They would bring the heavies around and go down fighting for sure with a name like that.....
....
:p<sc

Crypto Crude
13-09-2007, 03:45 PM
Minimoke,
I think some type of divestor competition is a good idea...
but if it could use all stocks aswell it may take off, Id be quite keen to pick a portfolio of losers... I can think of a few stocks right now that Ive got on sell...
you would somehow have to put forward a competition, with dates, and when you have to have your picks in, ETC.... maybe you could run it next year?
If it really is a contest, then make some rules... I'll enter!
:cool:
.^sc

minimoke
13-09-2007, 04:13 PM
Minimoke,
I think some type of divestor competition is a good idea...
but if it could use all stocks aswell it may take off, Id be quite keen to pick a portfolio of losers... I can think of a few stocks right now that Ive got on sell...
you would somehow have to put forward a competition, with dates, and when you have to have your picks in, ETC.... maybe you could run it next year?
If it really is a contest, then make some rules... I'll enter!
:cool:
.^sc
Might be worth doing for next year.

Say pick five NZX / NZAX stocks that will loose the most over 2008. Each competitor gets $10,000 in each of the five ($50,000 in total). The one with the least wins.

Lets give it some thought - but get the Finance Company one over first - we shoudl have a winner (and a few place getters) by the end of this year! - perhasp even by the end of the month!

minimoke
05-10-2007, 09:59 AM
No 12 Clegg and Co gone - sorry no winners this round but lots more chances to win!

minimoke
29-11-2007, 09:46 PM
No 11 gone. Capital and Merchant. Any bids for the next?

minimoke
03-04-2008, 12:24 PM
31 – Lombard sorry now gone.

I now have a bid from lakedaemonian for 28 Hanover

Major von Tempsky
05-04-2008, 12:00 PM
I would like to congratulate the author of this thread, much more interesting than that blowhard competition that I refuse to participate in because it is judged on the wrong criteria.
The winner, in Buffet terms (the richest man in the world) of that other competition should be the one who picks the most undervalued stock, not the one who picks what "fashion" temporarily makes the most overvalued stock measured by crossings prices.

But this thread is a worthy stand-in for fox hunting and other now banned bloodsports such as schoolground fighting, throwing Christians to the lions at the Coliseum, stuffing tennis balls in Benson-Popes mouth & &. It reminds me of that Sky add - "You want to punch a man in the head? Whip animals? Chuck spears? & & , Well you can. Its called sport, Sky Sport". :-)

Where else can you get to so effectively kick a man when he is down? Create self fulfilling rumours? ((my private enemy) XYZ Finance is in trouble, withdraw your money now before its too late).
I don't personally have anything against Lombard but the temptation to slag them off, put the boot in is irresistable :-) Actually I don't "invest" in finance companies because there's no possibility of share gain and I don't buy their shares because I suspect that eventually most investors will wise up that there is possibility of capital gain.

bermuda
05-04-2008, 12:32 PM
I THOUGHT YOU WOULD HAVE IT ALLLLLLLLL INNNNN NOG:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Hi Malcolm,

It used to be until I found out about Coal Seam Gas which is going to fuel Australia's future. The Japanese have bought into Sunshine Gas, British Gas has bought into Queensland Gas and now India has signalled it's intention through Petronet to buy into some of Queensland's emerging CSG companies.

That is why I sold down and invested in BOW, PES, RPM and VPE.

But dont worry I have still got some NZO !

minimoke
29-05-2008, 07:52 AM
6) Belgrave Finance Ltd

And now Belgrave gone

minimoke
19-06-2008, 08:22 AM
Dominion Finance and North South Finance now in trouble. The original list at the start of the thread isn’t looking a pretty picture.

minimoke
24-06-2008, 01:54 PM
So St Laurence is now in strife.
Remember back in 2007 when the Securities Commission asked the 67 Finance companies if their prospectus complied with the law. Well how is it we now keep having these other finance companies not on my original list coming out of the woodwork and getting into strife. Investors in this sector must have their money tucked away in some pretty odd places.

Crypto Crude
25-06-2008, 10:33 AM
Minimoke,
In this World, you can trust few real people...
you can trust yourself, and you can trust those who are close to you...
....
I am scared to trust anyone that I don't know...
I will likely never invest in A finance company...
You can easily make your own diversified portfolio of plays anyway...

... Its impossible to trust finance companies when they offer rates not much bigger than the big banks, BUT With a much higher attached risk...
A fair return that Finance companies should offer NOW would be around the 20% mark.....
anything less than that is waste of my time... If the Sharemarket crashes, then So will these finance companies...
Same risk playing spec stocks on the market, with the chance of making super normal profits....
Im going to sell everything on the sharemarket in time... I just don't know when... next month perhaps...
later...
:cool:
.^sc

minimoke
26-06-2008, 07:32 AM
With Dorchester now in trouble will we see more go with the speed of dominos

minimoke
22-07-2008, 07:50 AM
Starting to see a run on smaller borrower / lenders . Canterbury Mortgage Trust: $250m in funds frozen July 08 until March 09 with reduced interest payments due to increased levels of withdrawals relative to mortgages being repaid.

Major von Tempsky
22-07-2008, 08:42 PM
The remaining list gets smaller and smaller.
Who's safe? Just Rabobank and South Canty?
Just the one's whose reinvestment rate is not far south of 100% and/or who are backed by a major bank?

Publish a list of reinvestment rates by company - that would put the cat amongst the pigeons for the remaining ones. GRINS.

minimoke
23-07-2008, 03:52 PM
Now Hanover’s turn - freezing $0.5b in investor funds

Major von Tempsky
24-07-2008, 08:39 AM
The papers are reporting finance company number 26 has now gone down.
From memory there were 53 finance companies so that leaves 27.

So how bout when the next one goes down we say - 26 to go! 26 to go!
Like the World cup chant against the Germans - 3-0! 3-0! (2 world wars and a world cup)

minimoke
24-07-2008, 09:03 AM
Lianne Dalziel and the Securities Commission are pretty quiet. What happened to last years proposals?. Maybe now its a case of the horse has already bolted.

Major von Tempsky
29-07-2008, 08:49 PM
Guardian. $249mill.
27 down, 26 to go....

minimoke
30-07-2008, 06:35 AM
Guardian. $249mill.
27 down, 26 to go....
Strangely, they weren’t on the original list even though they were promoted as “New Zealand's largest independent investment funds manager and the leading trustee company in asset management and protection.” So was the Securities Commission remiss in not asking them the original question or are there so many lower tier companies that we have no idea who they all are or what their risk profiles are.

minimoke
01-08-2008, 10:55 AM
The AMP Capital NZ Property Fund has suspended redemptions and will accept no new applications, freezing $420m

minimoke
05-08-2008, 05:33 PM
AXA's Property based investment fund now freezing $117m of those $1m+ investors while the small investors can still get their money

minimoke
08-08-2008, 06:30 AM
Possumthecat!. Its been a while but 11 months later PTC’s pick of where he would pull his funds has come through. Strategic Finance have frozen $330m
The point of this thread was to recognise there are two sides to investing. One side being knowing where and when to put your money. The other sideknowing where and when to take your money out. SectorSurfa, QOH and PossumtheCat have made the right calls and secured their money invested in the Finance sector so top marks to them!

minimoke
24-08-2008, 05:44 PM
Tiny South Island finance company St Kilda has thrown in the towel and stopped taking new investments from the public. Another one gone but it looks like Holders wil get their money back

minimoke
24-08-2008, 05:48 PM
On 18 August Orange Finance has ceased to offer debentures to the public after its major backer, financial planner Money Managers, stopped promoting it.

minimoke
03-03-2009, 08:18 AM
Its taken a while but Mascot Finance have now gone. But investor funds are safe thanks to the Taxpayer Deposit Guaranttee Scheme. Nice to know my taxes are proping up dodgy deals. There is always problems with legislation that is passed in haste and here is Nationals first example.

Kookaburra
03-03-2009, 03:46 PM
AS the last of the finance companies fall over does this mean that the banks are the next in line???

macduffy
03-03-2009, 03:49 PM
Mascot is far from the last of the finance companies.

One of the last of the small finance companies, perhaps.

;)

minimoke
30-04-2010, 07:57 AM
I missed my chance at this years investor competion but thought a new one might be worthwhile. What about a competion on who we would get out of rather than who we would invest in. The name of the game is to pick the next collapse. The winner picks the next one to go.

With the wisdom of hindsight my picks are:
1) LDC Finance - gone Sept 07
2) Finance and Investments - gone Sept 07
3) Nathans Finance - Gone Aug 07
4) Bridgecorp- Gone July 07
5) Five Star Consumer Finance- gone April 07
6) National Finance 2000 - Gone May 06
7) Provincial Finance Limited- Gone June 06
8) Property Finance Group - gone Aug 07
9) Western Bay Finance Limited- Gone Aug 06

Now its your turn to pick from:

1) Anglican Development Fund
2) Allied Nationwide. CEO John Mall came from St Laurence in 2007
AMP freezes $420m property fund August 08
3) Ashburton Finance (became part of SCF not sure when)
4) Asset Finance Ltd (withdrew from Deposit Guarantee Scheme in No 2009 - but still OK)
AXA freezes $117m in Property fund August 2008
5) Bastion Finance Ltd
6) Belgrave Finance Ltd - Gone May 08
7) Beneficial Finance Ltd - moratorium on repayments Oct 07
8) Boston Finance - recievership Nov 2009
9) Broadlands Finance (got S&P BB- in Feb 2010)
10) Business Finance
11) Capital and Merchant Finance - gone Nov 07
Chancery Finance - in more trouble August 07
12) Clegg and Co - gone Oct 07
13) City Wide Capital
14) Dominion Finance - in trouble June 08
15) Dorchester finance - prospectus withdrawn June 08
16) Equitable
17) Evia Finance
18) FAI Finance
19) Finance Direct
20) Fairfield Finance
Fairview Finance (nee Cymbus) - gone May 08
21) FE Investments
22) Fisher and Paykel Finance
23) FMG
24) Geneva Finance - selected to go buy Sector Surfa and QOH (well done!) - stopped taking deposits Oct 07
25) G2 Finance
26) General Finance
Guardian Trust - $249m Mortgage funds frozen July 2008
27) Gold Band Finance
28) Hanover Finance; $0.05b frozen July 08
29) IMP Diversified Income Fund 0 moratorium june 2008
30) Instant Finance - selected to go by georgeofthejungle and SectorSurfa
Kiwi Finance - gone April 08
31) Lombard Finance and Investments - gone April 08
32) Mascot Finance Gone March 09
33) Marac
34) Medical Securities
35) MFS Pacific - defaulted on loan repayments Feb 08 (now OPI Finance)
MFS Boston (parent MFS Finance) - stay in redemptions April 08
36) Mutual Credit Finance
37) Mutual Finance
38) NZ Finance
39) North South Finance - in trouble June 08 (alnong with Dominion Finance)
Numeria Finance - gone Dec 07
OPI Finance - (nee MFS Pacific)
40) Orange Finance - ceased to offer new debentures August 08
41) Oxford Finance
42) PGG Wrightson Finance
43) Property Finance Securities
44) Presbyterian Savings
45) Priority Finance
46) Prometheus Finance
47) Public Trust
48) Rockforte
49) Riflemen - Selected by ShrewdCrude
50) Savings and Loans
51) St Kilda Finance; Calls it quits August 08
- St Laurence - In strife June 2008 iN Recievership April 2010
52) Southland Finance
53) South Canterbury Finance
54) Spiers Finance
55) Strata Finance - default Apr 09
56) Strategic Finance - Selected to go by Possumthecat.$330m frozen August 08. Recievership March 2010
57) Technology holdings
58) UDC
59) United Finance - moratorium Jul 2008
60) Vision Securities - recievership April 2010

Addons:
BlueChip - selected by Stranger Danger - pretty much gone!
Money Managers - selected by Arbitrage
With St Laurences news, time to up date the list.

minimoke
10-05-2010, 05:58 PM
Today its Rockforte Finances turn. Into recievership and calling on the Govt Guarantee. Only $3.2m out of an anticipated $850m Treasury sector contingency.

minimoke
14-07-2010, 05:39 PM
Ding
Mutual Finance out for the count and taxpayers up for around $9m out of the govt Guarantee.

minimoke
20-08-2010, 04:58 PM
National Finance gone. 4,500 depositors and $130m of tax payer cash

minimoke
31-08-2010, 08:44 AM
Its been on the cards for a very long time and this will be one of the drama stories of the decade. Finally Sandy has pulled the plug. Now for tax payers to dip their hands into their pockets for those twits that kept backing SCF when it was plain to see it was destined to fail.

trackers
31-08-2010, 09:22 AM
/sigh - what a complete and utter shambles

minimoke
31-08-2010, 09:51 AM
/sigh - what a complete and utter shambles
It sure is. Perhaps people will go back to the very first post on this thread and look at all that red ink. It should cause them to pause before they just throw money at something without some decent thought.

upside_umop
31-08-2010, 10:47 AM
Am I reading this right? The deposits that weren't under the govt guarantee scheme are now going to be paid out? I.e. SCF010? That's rubbish if it is the case. According to treasury website:



Media Statement: All South Canterbury Finance depositors to be repaid under Crown guarantee

31 Aug 2010
All depositors and stockholders on South Canterbury Finance Ltd’s register of debt securities will be repaid by the Crown, Acting Secretary to The Treasury Gabriel Makhlouf said today.
The Trustee for South Canterbury Finance has appointed receivers to the company, which is a default triggering the Crown’s guarantee.
"Depositors and stockholders do not need to make a claim to The Treasury because the Trustee has made a claim on their behalf. All depositors and stockholders on South Canterbury Finance’s register will be repaid," Mr Makhlouf said.
"The Trustee has been nominated as the eligible creditor under the terms of the Guarantee and the Crown today paid the Trustee in full. The Treasury and the Trustee are cooperating to promptly repay all registered holders of South Canterbury Finance debt securities," Mr Makhlouf said.
"When an up-to-date register of debt security holders is available, the Crown and the Trustee will arrange prompt payment to everyone on the register. We expect an orderly and prompt payment to South Canterbury Finance depositors and stockholders," Mr Makhlouf said.
Because the Trustee has been nominated as the eligible creditor, some depositors and stockholders who may not have previously been repaid will now be repaid by the Crown. While this will incur an upfront cost, it is cheaper overall for the Crown because it facilitates immediate payout of depositors and avoids the need for the Crown to make future interest payments. Criteria relating to citizenship and tax residency do not apply and depositors and stockholders will not be assessed using those criteria. The criteria for being repaid is that you are on the South Canterbury Finance register of debt securities at the date of default. Ordinary shares and preference shares issued by South Canterbury Finance are not eligible for repayment. Debt securities eligible for repayment include: call deposits, term deposits, non-guaranteed deposits, debentures and bonds issued by South Canterbury Finance.
South Canterbury Finance is a Timaru based financial institution with around 35,000 depositors and approximately $1.6 billion in deposits.
"It is important to remember that the Crown guarantee is not designed to prevent a company from defaulting; it is designed to protect depositors and stockholders affected by a default," said Mr Makhlouf.


Thats not on. They took on the risk of not being originally covered and were reimbursed a higher coupon rate. It makes me wonder why govt didn't come out at the beginning and state they would back everything, no matter what, and therefore they wouldn't default as all the holders would have had confidence.

minimoke
31-08-2010, 11:08 AM
Am I reading this right?
SCFHA arr certainly not covered

upside_umop
31-08-2010, 11:10 AM
I know about them, it was stated in the article given they're preference shares.

But all deposits are...thats a bit of vote grabbing isn't it.

Jaa
31-08-2010, 11:15 AM
Am I reading this right? The deposits that weren't under the govt guarantee scheme are now going to be paid out? I.e. SCF010? That's rubbish if it is the case. According to treasury website:



Media Statement: All South Canterbury Finance depositors to be repaid under Crown guarantee

31 Aug 2010
All depositors and stockholders on South Canterbury Finance Ltd’s register of debt securities will be repaid by the Crown, Acting Secretary to The Treasury Gabriel Makhlouf said today.
The Trustee for South Canterbury Finance has appointed receivers to the company, which is a default triggering the Crown’s guarantee.
"Depositors and stockholders do not need to make a claim to The Treasury because the Trustee has made a claim on their behalf. All depositors and stockholders on South Canterbury Finance’s register will be repaid," Mr Makhlouf said.
"The Trustee has been nominated as the eligible creditor under the terms of the Guarantee and the Crown today paid the Trustee in full. The Treasury and the Trustee are cooperating to promptly repay all registered holders of South Canterbury Finance debt securities," Mr Makhlouf said.
"When an up-to-date register of debt security holders is available, the Crown and the Trustee will arrange prompt payment to everyone on the register. We expect an orderly and prompt payment to South Canterbury Finance depositors and stockholders," Mr Makhlouf said.
Because the Trustee has been nominated as the eligible creditor, some depositors and stockholders who may not have previously been repaid will now be repaid by the Crown. While this will incur an upfront cost, it is cheaper overall for the Crown because it facilitates immediate payout of depositors and avoids the need for the Crown to make future interest payments. Criteria relating to citizenship and tax residency do not apply and depositors and stockholders will not be assessed using those criteria. The criteria for being repaid is that you are on the South Canterbury Finance register of debt securities at the date of default. Ordinary shares and preference shares issued by South Canterbury Finance are not eligible for repayment. Debt securities eligible for repayment include: call deposits, term deposits, non-guaranteed deposits, debentures and bonds issued by South Canterbury Finance.
South Canterbury Finance is a Timaru based financial institution with around 35,000 depositors and approximately $1.6 billion in deposits.
"It is important to remember that the Crown guarantee is not designed to prevent a company from defaulting; it is designed to protect depositors and stockholders affected by a default," said Mr Makhlouf.


Thats not on. They took on the risk of not being originally covered and were reimbursed a higher coupon rate. It makes me wonder why govt didn't come out at the beginning and state they would back everything, no matter what, and therefore they wouldn't default as all the holders would have had confidence.

The SCF010s were always covered to the end of each scheme. They were only not covered in the sense that their maturity date was after the end of the guarantee.

The real change is that the Treasury has paid the Trustee directly not the individual depositors. This ensures that all the problems people have had with previous payouts (ie trusts with non-resident beneficiaries) will not occur with SCF. Treasury are stating that this will save them a lot of time and hence interest payments and will work out CHEAPER. Thinking about this I guess no one will receive interest past today?

One assumes they have done the sums as they have had plenty of time to prepare. I guess this was John Key's "plan" he referred to yesterday. Going to be 1.5b or so looking for a home on pretty soon I reckon. Property trusts, banks and the NZDX should all benefit.

upside_umop
31-08-2010, 12:23 PM
The SCF010s were always covered to the end of each scheme. They were only not covered in the sense that their maturity date was after the end of the guarantee.

Are you sure they were always covered? Considering they were to expire outside of the guarantee scheme, I would say they weren't covered. It is also obvious by the yield they were trading at (mid to high 20s%). Perhaps I need to go and read more fine print.


The real change is that the Treasury has paid the Trustee directly not the individual depositors. This ensures that all the problems people have had with previous payouts (ie trusts with non-resident beneficiaries) will not occur with SCF. Treasury are stating that this will save them a lot of time and hence interest payments and will work out CHEAPER. Thinking about this I guess no one will receive interest past today?

I understand this. It makes sense....why carry on paying out the higher rates of interest when the govt is bearing the cost. Effectively bank roll it at risk free rate and slowly let the receivers unwind the debt.



One assumes they have done the sums as they have had plenty of time to prepare. I guess this was John Key's "plan" he referred to yesterday. Going to be 1.5b or so looking for a home on pretty soon I reckon. Property trusts, banks and the NZDX should all benefit.


If I was a holder in SCF010, I would consider myself very lucky. I'd prob just go and spend it all at once...

minimoke
31-08-2010, 12:27 PM
They have gone as well - didn't realize they were part of SCF.

Jay
31-08-2010, 01:56 PM
I was under the impression that the gurantee only covered principal and not any interest they may be due - except from the day the finance co goes under to the time they are paid out - hence as mentioned Treasury paying the funds today.

minimoke
01-09-2010, 05:26 PM
I missed my chance at this years investor competion but thought a new one might be worthwhile. What about a competion on who we would get out of rather than who we would invest in. The name of the game is to pick the next collapse. The winner picks the next one to go.

With the wisdom of hindsight my picks are:
1) LDC Finance - gone Sept 07
2) Finance and Investments - gone Sept 07
3) Nathans Finance - Gone Aug 07
4) Bridgecorp- Gone July 07
5) Five Star Consumer Finance- gone April 07
6) National Finance 2000 - Gone May 06
7) Provincial Finance Limited- Gone June 06
8) Property Finance Group - gone Aug 07
9) Western Bay Finance Limited- Gone Aug 06

Now its your turn to pick from:

1) Anglican Development Fund
2) Allied Nationwide. CEO John Mall came from St Laurence in 2007 Receivership 20 August 2010
3) AMP freezes $420m property fund August 08
4) Ashburton Finance (became part of SCF not sure when)
5) Asset Finance Ltd (withdrew from Deposit Guarantee Scheme in No 2009 - but still OK) Credit rating B negative
6) AXA freezes $117m in Property fund August 2008
7) Bastion Finance Ltd - closed January 2009 due to changing business conditions
8) Belgrave Finance Ltd - Gone May 08
9) Beneficial Finance Ltd - moratorium on repayments Oct 07
10) Boston Finance - recievership Nov 2009
11) Broadlands Finance (got S&P BB- in Feb 2010)
12) Business Finance
13) Capital and Merchant Finance - gone Nov 07
14) Chancery Finance - in more trouble August 07
15) Clegg and Co - gone Oct 07
16) City Wide Capital
17) Dominion Finance - in trouble June 08
18) Dorchester finance - prospectus withdrawn June 08
19) Equitable
20) Evia Finance
21) FAI Finance
22) Finance Direct
23) Fairfield Finance - gone August 2010 as part of SCF receivership
24) Fairview Finance (nee Cymbus) - gone May 08
25) FE Investments
26) Fisher and Paykel Finance
27) FMG - closed for business March 2009
28) Geneva Finance - selected to go buy Sector Surfa and QOH (well done!) - stopped taking deposits Oct 07
29) G2 Finance
30) General Finance
31) Guardian Trust - $249m Mortgage funds frozen July 2008
32) Gold Band Finance
33) Hanover Finance; $0.05b frozen July 08
34) IMP Diversified Income Fund 0 moratorium june 2008
35) Instant Finance - selected to go by georgeofthejungle and SectorSurfa
36) Kiwi Finance - gone April 08
37) Lombard Finance and Investments - gone April 08
38) Mascot Finance Gone March 09
39) Marac
40) Medical Securities
41) MFS Pacific - defaulted on loan repayments Feb 08 (now OPI Finance)
MFS Boston (parent MFS Finance) - stay in redemptions April 08
42) Mutual Credit Finance
43) Mutual Finance gone and drawing on ht eGovt Deposit Guarantee July 2010.
44) NZ Finance
45) North South Finance - in trouble June 08 (alnong with Dominion Finance)
46) Numeria Finance - gone Dec 07
48) OPI Finance - (nee MFS Pacific)
49) Orange Finance - ceased to offer new debentures August 08
50) Oxford Finance $3.1m deficit facing wall of maturities as at July 2010
51) PGG Wrightson Finance
52) Property Finance Securities voluntary liquidation May 2010
53) Presbyterian Savings
54) Priority Finance - just disappeared, don't know when.
55) Prometheus Finance
56) Public Trust
57) Rockforte - recievership April 2010
58) Riflemen - Selected by ShrewdCrude
59) Savings and Loans
60) St Kilda Finance; Calls it quits August 08
61) - St Laurence - In strife June 2008 iN Recievership April 2010
62) Southland Finance - suspect they've gone as their website links to SCF
63) South Canterbury Finance In Receivership 31 August 2010.
64) Spiers Finance - taken over by Allied Nationwide in 2008 - so they are now gone.
65) Strata Finance - default Apr 09
66) Strategic Finance - Selected to go by Possumthecat.$330m frozen August 08. Recievership March 2010
67) Technology holdings
68) UDC
69) United Finance - moratorium Jul 2008
70) Vision Securities - recievership April 2010

Addons:
71) BlueChip - selected by Stranger Danger - pretty much gone!
72) Money Managers - selected by Arbitrage. Sold up in 2008 - but like a phoenix its rising again as MMG

Not too many left standing now!

minimoke
21-12-2010, 10:12 AM
Out comes the wet bus ticket. 9 months home D and a few community hours work for 5 Star Director and ex Accountant Anthony Bowden. He got done for making untrue statements in investment statements. Lets see what Nicholas Kirk and Marcus Macdonald get.

minimoke
27-01-2011, 04:33 PM
Not sure how Finance and Leasing didn't make my original list on Page 1 but they are now in Receivership owing $17m