Diligent Boardbooks IPO [Archive] - Page 18

BlackPeter

17-03-2014, 06:16 PM

Methinks DIL have become a share market pariah ......despised and rejected by the masses.

What happens when you piss so many off for so long, no matter how fantastic the story is.

Enough info out there now for instos to take a stake if they are keen but seemingly no takers.

Unloved and unwanted not a good place to be and it takes years, if ever, to lose a tag of pariah

Not sure whether I buy into the perception of a "market pariah". If the SP is rather low, than I think this is more related to DIL's performance, prospects and balance sheet:

PE is quite high (even if we believe the growth to continue), the company is highly leveraged which will hurt when interests are going up (they do now), the product is not that unique - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to develop something similar (or better) and the CEO seems to like to reward himself with a quite generous package (given the size of the company). As well - they are not particularly well known for being diligent with their accounts. Makes you wonder, what will be left for share holders. Not surprised that bidders are not queuing up.

Discl: not holding (not a surprise, given my perception of the company ...)

alistair85

17-03-2014, 06:25 PM

So what's your prediction of Dil in the near future then xerof?

zigzag

17-03-2014, 06:34 PM

Not sure whether I buy into the perception of a "market pariah". If the SP is rather low, than I think this is more related to DIL's performance, prospects and balance sheet:

PE is quite high (even if we believe the growth to continue), the company is highly leveraged which will hurt when interests are going up (they do now), the product is not that unique - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to develop something similar (or better) and the CEO seems to like to reward himself with a quite generous package (given the size of the company). As well - they are not particularly well known for being diligent with their accounts. Makes you wonder, what will be left for share holders. Not surprised that bidders are not queuing up.

Discl: not holding (not a surprise, given my perception of the company ...)
Just what do you think is going to happen when interest rates go up? and just how "highly leveraged" do you think Diligent is? And while i am at it, do you really think the CEO awards himself a generous package. This is decided by the board, and ultimately, the shareholders, of which I am one. I think Mr Sodi earns his keep, and some.

Xerof

17-03-2014, 06:42 PM

So what's your prediction of Dil in the near future then xerof?

Not sure of the relevance of your question. What does my prediction of the future have to do with exposure of factually incorrect and idiotic posts?

Anyway, until the next news release, support at 450 looks good, 425 would be next support if it does fail. That is my opinion at present. It may be different tomorrow, next week, next month.

No trading position at the moment. As stated at the time, closed longs after third failure to close above 500, on lack of any forward guidance, as astutely noted by KW around about the same time

Xerof

17-03-2014, 06:53 PM

the company is highly leveraged which will hurt when interests are going up

sheesh, I'm not making any friends this evening. This is more utter crap......

no debt and >50 mill in cash is not highly leveraged in my book.

Did you post on the wrong thread Peter?

JohnnyTheHorse

17-03-2014, 07:18 PM

Not sure whether I buy into the perception of a "market pariah". If the SP is rather low, than I think this is more related to DIL's performance, prospects and balance sheet:

PE is quite high (even if we believe the growth to continue), the company is highly leveraged which will hurt when interests are going up (they do now), the product is not that unique - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to develop something similar (or better) and the CEO seems to like to reward himself with a quite generous package (given the size of the company). As well - they are not particularly well known for being diligent with their accounts. Makes you wonder, what will be left for share holders. Not surprised that bidders are not queuing up.

Discl: not holding (not a surprise, given my perception of the company ...)

You, sir, have zero clue what you are talking about.

iceman

17-03-2014, 07:21 PM

Not sure whether I buy into the perception of a "market pariah". If the SP is rather low, than I think this is more related to DIL's performance, prospects and balance sheet:

PE is quite high (even if we believe the growth to continue), the company is highly leveraged which will hurt when interests are going up (they do now), the product is not that unique - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to develop something similar (or better) and the CEO seems to like to reward himself with a quite generous package (given the size of the company). As well - they are not particularly well known for being diligent with their accounts. Makes you wonder, what will be left for share holders. Not surprised that bidders are not queuing up.

Discl: not holding (not a surprise, given my perception of the company ...)

Interesting post BlackPeter. How do you determine DIL to be "highly leveraged"? I would have thought a cursory glance would, quite to the contrary, show a very strong, healthy and lowly geared balance sheet !

Whipmoney

17-03-2014, 07:35 PM

A rise in interest rates (at least in the US) would actually benefit the company as they would receive more interest income on their $55m.

Xerof

17-03-2014, 07:55 PM

so everyone is full of crap except you xerof.

I try to deal with facts, and logic, unlike the three posts that were put up this afternoon.

But as you wish snapiti, more fool me, you are right, they clearly waited two years for the dilution and change of beneficial interest to occur THEN sold a parcel of shares in the last few days JUST so they could finally, after 7 years of holding, get themselves under the selling radar.

pull the other one

Snow Leopard

17-03-2014, 07:58 PM

Do I have to translate once again?

The last notice was 2012. Since that date, they have sold a few shares (less than 1%, otherwise we would know about it already, and perhaps that was in 2012?), secondly, there has been a change in control of non-beneficial interest, (amount not known, but not a sale), and thirdly, they were diluted a few days ago, by the conversion of PIK notes, again, not a sale, but probably the event that has triggered the issue of the notice.

To say they have sold to get themselves under the radar is simply crap

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."

Donald Rumsfeld

We do not know what they have actually done - they are numerous possibilities that would fit.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

robbo24

17-03-2014, 08:39 PM

Agreed. Where the hell does cash in the bank and no debt fit into the "highly leveraged" category? Pluto???

At least Moosie is talking some sense.

Also, Moosie do you think this is a SNAKK style selldown???

Xerof

17-03-2014, 08:41 PM

Well, two plausible scenarios then. I apologise for calling your post crap snapiti.

The market will decide what should be done with the (official) information provided, so lets drop it and move on

Harvey Specter

17-03-2014, 08:51 PM

I refer you to the 2013 NBR rich list page 69.
Such an interesting insight into Peter Huljich capabilities.
Me thinks if you have been fooled xerof you should read this page.
So xerof you think the timing and combination of selling shares, a dilution of shares and a change in non beneficail ownership of shares accidentally took the holdings to 4.9%.
PULL THE OTHER ONE
Plenty of logic in using the right timing to try and sneak under the 5% radar.
Smoke and mirrors.http://www.nbr.co.nz/family-huljich

I think I read he use to post here as well - got himself in trouble.

SimonHouse

17-03-2014, 10:35 PM

One must not forget that it is Peter Huljich in charge of the families investment fund.
One only needs to read the 2013 NBR rich list column on him to see how good he is at attempting smoke and mirrors.
Interesting read.

looks like he made 5x his initial investment, more or less. Smart fellow, don't blame him for taking some profits. Must be greener pastures beckoning for him.

not sure why it's so bad he is below 5%, perhaps he wants anonymity so his actions don't get smeared by people on websites.... Balance was testifying only a few weeks ago that Mr Hulich was supporting the share price back when others were dumping the stock back in the early days. Perhaps he deserves a little credit for that?

SimonHouse

17-03-2014, 10:38 PM

SimonHouse

18-03-2014, 09:01 AM

spot on simomhouse a very clever fellow indeed but after reading the nbr rich list a bigger picture emerge's.
Are you his brother? lol

I wish I was!

In fairness, I read over the SSH associated with the Huljich selldown, and it looks like that the selldown was actually less than the gnashing of teeth here would deserve. A bit over 0.4% of the 2.2% reduction in their holding is because the overall number of shares has increased. The company has gone from circa 81m shares to circa 85m, so naturally their holding has dropped as a percentage. Maybe the chopping and changing of beneficial interests makes things unclear.

BlackPeter

18-03-2014, 12:53 PM

sheesh, I'm not making any friends this evening. This is more utter crap......

no debt and >50 mill in cash is not highly leveraged in my book.

Did you post on the wrong thread Peter?

Gosh - looks like I have plenty of choice in explaining my statement related to DIL's leverage. Hope nobody else feels neglected for me picking Xerof's one.

Xerof, I normally enjoy your posts - and wonder about your need to throw with smelly brown mass around? This feels to be slightly out of character. Certainly hope you are alright - hate to see posters suffer for any reason!

O.K. - so why did I state DIL to be highly leveraged?

DIL's latest balance sheet (Dec 2013 FY, preliminary and according to their web site still unaudited) claims assets of roughly 82.3 Million US$ - of them 57.3 Million US$ liabilities. Which means their equities are roughly 30 % of their assets - or in other words, 70% of their assets are leveraged. On first look quite high comparing it with other companies - and I must admit, this was basically the basis for my post.

Given the outcry on this thread did I have another look at the balance sheet and discovered that the lions share (66%) of the liabilities are "deferred revenue", which admittedly makes the picture looking better. It just means they have already accepted payment for a service they have not yet delivered, which is not unusual for Saas. Still - there is a reason they need to book this stuff as liability - they still need to "earn this money by providing Customer service, running their cloud, and by SW development / maintenance. However I agree that this leads the leverage levels back into the more normal range - and happy to withdraw and apologise for the "highly leveraged" to any offended believer!

Independent of that would DIL still not rank high on my share purchase list, but I guess this is a win-win for everybody: more shares left for everybody else.

Hope you are feeling better - no intention to hurt anybody's feelings!

Xerof

18-03-2014, 01:27 PM

All good Peter, I reacted strongly to three almost simultaneous posts that gave the polar opposite view to how I saw it, and gave explanations of my views where appropriate. These have not changed, but I accept there are other ways of looking at things.

I have apologised as appropriate, and thank you for explaining the basis of your 'highly leveraged' comment.

No position

winner69

18-03-2014, 01:54 PM

Gosh - looks like I have plenty of choice in explaining my statement related to DIL's leverage. Hope nobody else feels neglected for me picking Xerof's one.

Xerof, I normally enjoy your posts - and wonder about your need to throw with smelly brown mass around? This feels to be slightly out of character. Certainly hope you are alright - hate to see posters suffer for any reason!

O.K. - so why did I state DIL to be highly leveraged?

DIL's latest balance sheet (Dec 2013 FY, preliminary and according to their web site still unaudited) claims assets of roughly 82.3 Million US$ - of them 57.3 Million US$ liabilities. Which means their equities are roughly 30 % of their assets - or in other words, 70% of their assets are leveraged. On first look quite high comparing it with other companies - and I must admit, this was basically the basis for my post.

Given the outcry on this thread did I have another look at the balance sheet and discovered that the lions share (66%) of the liabilities are "deferred revenue", which admittedly makes the picture looking better. It just means they have already accepted payment for a service they have not yet delivered, which is not unusual for Saas. Still - there is a reason they need to book this stuff as liability - they still need to "earn this money by providing Customer service, running their cloud, and by SW development / maintenance. However I agree that this leads the leverage levels back into the more normal range - and happy to withdraw and apologise for the "highly leveraged" to any offended believer!

Independent of that would DIL still not rank high on my share purchase list, but I guess this is a win-win for everybody: more shares left for everybody else.

Hope you are feeling better - no intention to hurt anybody's feelings!

$56m of those assets are cash

Thy could give that to shareholders ..but then shareholder equity would be negative ....and that would stuff up ratios eh

BlackPeter

18-03-2014, 02:17 PM

$56m of those assets are cash

Thy could give that to shareholders ..but then shareholder equity would be negative ....and that would stuff up ratios eh

Hi winner, you are correct - it is cash, and roughly 38M of that is cash customers paid for services they did not yet receive. They (DIL) need this money to fulfil their already paid for commitments. Obviously you could argue that they still could distribute the money and pay their staff (and other resources they need to deliver the paid for service) from any new payments coming in (as they come, so to speak), I am however not sure, whether this would be legal ... and technically speaking it would it bring DIL into the territory of negative equity (definition of bankruptcy). So I guess, they better hold on to the deferred revenue instead of distributing it :D!

Whipmoney

18-03-2014, 02:28 PM

Hi winner, you are correct - it is cash, and roughly 38M of that is cash customers paid for services they did not yet receive. They (DIL) need this money to fulfil their already paid for commitments. Obviously you could argue that they still could distribute the money and pay their staff (and other resources they need to deliver the paid for service) from any new payments coming in (as they come, so to speak), I am however not sure, whether this would be legal ... and technically speaking it would it bring DIL into the territory of negative equity (definition of bankruptcy). So I guess, they better hold on to the deferred revenue instead of distributing it :D!

From memory their gross margin is something like 79% so a large part of this cash is idle and isnt required for ongoing commitments. Their opex is a different story but is scaleable so in theory should decline as percentage of revenue when they grow. One off costs are large.

winner69

18-03-2014, 02:29 PM

Hi winner, you are correct - it is cash, and roughly 38M of that is cash customers paid for services they did not yet receive. They (DIL) need this money to fulfil their already paid for commitments. Obviously you could argue that they still could distribute the money and pay their staff (and other resources they need to deliver the paid for service) from any new payments coming in (as they come, so to speak), I am however not sure, whether this would be legal ... and technically speaking it would it bring DIL into the territory of negative equity (definition of bankruptcy). So I guess, they better hold on to the deferred revenue instead of distributing it :D!

Ah so ... just like airlines and their prepaid fares .... this huge pile of cash is not really spare cash after all.

Easy to jump to conclusions eh

SimonHouse

18-03-2014, 02:36 PM

I thought that it was only the installation revenues which got accounted over 9 years? Aren't they only around 10% of overall revenues?

Harvey Specter

18-03-2014, 03:11 PM

Hi winner, you are correct - it is cash, and roughly 38M of that is cash customers paid for services they did not yet receive.Deferred revenue is just an accounting spreading rule. The customers cannot claim that money back if they cancel the contract. It is 'earned' in the sense it is receive, just not earned in the sense the service hasn't been provided yet. Plus you refered to leverage in the context of being effecting by increases in interest rates. There is no interest expense.

alistair85

18-03-2014, 09:28 PM

I just can't understand why Dil has begun another downtrend after the restatement has been released??? When you look back at the forums everyone was talking up a hopeful positive outlook once this restatement had been released and was over and done with (considering the resatement was positive)... But this obviously isn't the case. I know everyone will have their own reasons why they think this downtrend is happening but a month or so ago, before the restatement I don't think many would have predicted this to happen after this mess was cleared up.

robbo24

18-03-2014, 11:02 PM

not everyone just the mass of DIL bulls on this thread.
The bulls are a lot quieter now.

The research I found about restatement seemed to suggest a 3 month turnaround after restatement. I sold on the wisdom of the chart a while back but keen to get back in once everything is out and audited (and able to be relied on by big buyers).

And once the big seller/s go away.

Schrodinger

19-03-2014, 08:11 AM

The result is exactly as expected, and as I predicted last September. 95% of posters here don't have a clue what they are talking about, so if you are taking their word as gospel simply because they flood this forum with thousands of ill thought out comments, and investing your money in reliance upon such dribble, I suggest you stop and have a rethink.

Good comments KW.

Assuming sales numbers remain average I see the price failing further. Might interest me at $2.

JohnnyTheHorse

19-03-2014, 12:44 PM

DIL will shine again, it just isn't the flavour of the month right now (and hasn't been for the sat 12 months). Patience will be rewarded if you are in it long term. Short term that may be another story, lets see if 425 support holds.

It's important to note that it looks as if institutional investor are not getting in yet. The question is do they still not like what they see, or are they intentionally holding off and allowing the price to drop further. What price will they want in at?

JohnnyTheHorse

19-03-2014, 01:36 PM

me thinks insto's are waiting for at least the next quarterly to be positive and maybe 2 quarters

Yes, you are probably right. From what I have heard, Diligent have really started to try and create a better workplace and benefit scheme for their employees over the last few months. Will happier employees translate into more growth?

I'm expecting their new product to be announced by the end of April. If this does not succeed to the level expected, growth is still slowing and the capital is not used for good use then I would like to be seeing a management shakeup.

Whipmoney

19-03-2014, 04:39 PM

It all comes down to what rate is their EPS growing, and therefore what P/E should the company be trading at? You can compare a high growth company like MNF that is growing EPS at around 27% and its on a P/E of 25. As a rule of thumb (mine) I think P/Es should reflect EPS growth - a company with 20% EPS growth should be on a P/E around 20, any less and you are buying a bargain, any more and you are paying for blue sky that may never eventuate. Once you get a handle on what the EPS growth is for both FY14 and FY15 you should be able to tell whether the P/E of 48 is justified or not.

The problem with applying P/E ratios and EPS growth ratios for a company like DIL is that a sizeable amount of their sales are recorded as deferred reveneues (where all cash and some profit is front-loaded) which is specifically excluded from these measures as this profit isn't yet reflected in the company's P&L earning.

As such the reported earnings of the company will almost always trail the true/underlying cash earnings of the business, meaning that these ratios are inefficient measures of value.

A simple DCF analysis model shows that this company is worth well in excess of $4 (even when factoring relatively modest levels of growth) however as you have noted it may take the market a long-time to recognise this.

BlackPeter

19-03-2014, 05:13 PM

Whipmoney

19-03-2014, 05:20 PM

Diligent reports they can't stick to the March 31 deadline to file their annual report - anybody surprised?

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/diligent-says-it-wont-meet-march-31-deadline-file-annual-report-bd-153459

That's a pretty stupid statement considering they have just gone through a full restatment.

Snow Leopard

19-03-2014, 05:31 PM

What a mess they got themselves into, and have not quite completely got themselves out of yet.

Seems the Special Committee has a few more million dollars yet to consume.

General and Administrative Expenses nearly doubled and the one-offs are categorized separately !

These accounts are not yet Audited !!

The cash in the bank seems to be have been real :)

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Well, well, well...

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

winner69

19-03-2014, 05:34 PM

Wont help will it

But this is what you expect of market pariahs

Probably even more unloved and unwanted now

baller18

19-03-2014, 05:42 PM

So this has nothing to do with management again?
Who do we blame? The accountants or the management of DIL?

BlackPeter

19-03-2014, 06:16 PM

That's a pretty stupid statement considering they have just gone through a full restatment.

It might help to first switch on your brain and read the post before calling statements / posts stupid. I know of course that DIL is special, but even they seem to be required to file audited reports - and it sounds like they can't.

Lorne Ranger

19-03-2014, 07:06 PM

It might help to first switch on your brain and read the post before calling statements / posts stupid. I know of course that DIL is special, but even they seem to be required to file audited reports - and it sounds like they can't.

BP I think Whip meant a stupid statement FROM DIL, not from you? It might help to first switch on your brain and read the post properly before calling statements / posts stupid. (yes Im being sarcastic I know).

FYI After a year of grief I got out on Monday morning at 4.55. Slept like a baby Monday night despite the losses. Dont worry though I wont "do-a-Moose" and become the stocks harshest slammer, I do still believe this stock has long term promise, but needed to convert some stocks and Dil was the next one to roll out of bed. Have held for 18 months so you can imagine how much fun that has been. If I didnt need the cash elsewhere Im not sure I would have sold, but just for my ulcer's sake, I need to see a period of stability and growth before coming back.

couta1

20-03-2014, 10:31 AM

pretty predictable stuff.
Yep nothing new here accountants doing what they do in their own time,my loss has grown a bit but holding tight,more right along gents

couta1

20-03-2014, 10:48 AM

I'll be waiting for you to sell me some shares @ $3.50 couta
Nope not selling what a difference a year can make aye,2015 that is:cool:

Schrodinger

20-03-2014, 03:03 PM

Let me know around $2.50

Xerof

20-03-2014, 03:21 PM

Let me know around $2.50

How would you like that? Tsumani sirens or personal txt

:D for context

ps, just for balance (not that Balance) you should also ask for an alert if it closes above $5, daily close, but preferably weekly

Schrodinger

20-03-2014, 03:44 PM

Never bought a Stock in the past 5 years that has been going up ...=)

Minerbarejet

20-03-2014, 04:03 PM

How would you like that? Tsumani sirens or personal txt

:D for context

ps, just for balance (not that Balance) you should also ask for an alert if it closes above $5, daily close, but preferably weekly
Totally agree xxxx, they use far tsumani sirens these days.:D

Whipmoney

20-03-2014, 04:12 PM

Not that I know anything about technical or price/volume trading but 454k shares traded today.. Somebody is buying and at that volume does anyone suspect that the instos are quietly accumulating from nervous sellers?

Xerof

20-03-2014, 04:21 PM

yes Al the gorithm is busy today. When those are turned on, I'm tuned out.

on that topic, I see somebody in NYK has got sick of HFT players screwing the markets, and is looking at legislation to rid the world of this crap, then hopefully the OL stuff we have to persevere with

note : crap is acceptable, **** is not....

pretty sure "they" will close it above 425 today, as below there is not a good look to the squiggly line brigade:sleep:

couta1

20-03-2014, 05:32 PM

Anyone going to catch the falling knife? $4.00 up very soon...
Hey Moosie hardly a falling knife open $4.30 close $4.25 perhaps more of a rolling spoon:cool:

Whipmoney

20-03-2014, 06:12 PM

Still watching closely. Rome wasn't destroyed in a day ;)

Dropped 5c on 470k+ volume... she weathered the cyclone relatively well today.

muss1

20-03-2014, 09:30 PM

No one wants to talk about the hammer (unconfirmed) which has formed at the support level?

Are we even talking about a delay? Wasn't that confirmation of what we knew already?

nextbigthing

20-03-2014, 09:35 PM

Dare I say it? Double bottom at $2.75 with rebound???

Snoopy had better start freeing up some cash ;)

Carpenterjoe

20-03-2014, 09:35 PM

Xerof

20-03-2014, 09:43 PM

No one wants to talk about the hammer

yep, saw it. See what tomorrows close reveals. Still retracements within trends applying.

JohnnyTheHorse

20-03-2014, 09:59 PM

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. Smashed out some numbers last night. I have next years profit between 22mil and 40mil (American dollars). How about you guys how's the number crunching going?

Cheers, Joe
Holding, Peb, Spn, Dil, Sum, Gel, Sct

My models (which are slightly old now, need to update it with latest figures) give FY14 NPAT of between US$20-25 million. This excludes any one off costs (i.e. restatement costs) and excludes the addition of an extra product (which should be announced by the end of April I'm picking).

muss1

20-03-2014, 10:01 PM

Carpenterjoe

20-03-2014, 10:32 PM

How did you get your figures so precise? I have expenses between 37494 - 47917 and my revenue between 71232-106849 (allowing for 10%-65% of revenue growth and excludes new products). My largest variant is general and administration expensive. Which will change dependent on growth. (I think). It seems like a great buy, 86mil shares to a profit of $US20-40million.

Appreciate all input
Except spelling advice:

Cheers, Joe

Snow Leopard

20-03-2014, 10:35 PM

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. Smashed out some numbers last night. I have next years profit between 22mil and 40mil (American dollars). How about you guys how's the number crunching going?

Cheers, Joe
Holding, Peb, Spn, Dil, Sum, Gel, Sct

Well done for giving it a go and for putting you numbers up.
That is rather a broad range you have there have you smashed a few different scenarios out to get that?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Carpenterjoe

20-03-2014, 10:50 PM

[QUOTE=Paper Tiger;468972]Well done for giving it a go and for putting you numbers up.
That is rather a broad range you have there have you smashed a few different scenarios out to get that?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger[/QUOTE

Scenarios? No, not really. I see a good product, sold to the right people.(e.g Directors whom influence spending and future product uptake) I really like that a product can increase revenue on shrinking sales(via upgrades). Hence I see revenue only increasing, so I see sales growing(10%-60%). How do your numbers look Paper Tiger?

Halebop

20-03-2014, 10:51 PM

...It seems like a great buy, 86mil shares to a profit of $US20-40million....

120+ Million shares on a diluted basis. Read the fine print to factor the convertible notes issue that saved them during the GFC (plus options since).

Carpenterjoe

20-03-2014, 11:00 PM

120+ Million shares on a diluted basis. Read the fine print to factor the convertible notes issue that saved them during the GFC (plus options since).

Ok, cool. And they come into effect at the end of the year?

couta1

21-03-2014, 12:09 PM

Still watching closely. Rome wasn't destroyed in a day ;)
Looks like Rome in restoration mode Moosie:cool:

psychic

21-03-2014, 12:51 PM

Extremely low volume. Wouldn't count on it. The trend is not your friend here couta ;)

What do you say now Moosie?

psychic

21-03-2014, 01:23 PM

Big chunks moving at $4.30 and I guessing the 1 bid for 1 share @ $4.27 means significant interest at $4.27 (??)

TimmyTP

21-03-2014, 01:50 PM

Big chunks moving at $4.30 and I guessing the 1 bid for 1 share @ $4.27 means significant interest at $4.27 (??)
Hi psychic. The 1@1 bid is exactly that. It could be there for any number of reasons, but my crystal ball tells me there is one share left over from an order of 5,000 that traded at 12:34.

Balance

21-03-2014, 01:57 PM

Hi psychic. The 1@1 bid is exactly that. It could be there for any number of reasons, but my crystal ball tells me there is one share left over from an order of 5,000 that traded at 12:34.

Algorithm trades by institutions - all computer generated to phase trades right throughout the day.

Yesterday was on sell side.

Today is on buy side.

psychic

21-03-2014, 05:38 PM

Algorithm trades by institutions - all computer generated to phase trades right throughout the day.

Yesterday was on sell side.

Today is on buy side.

Oh, boring as that eh. I was much happier reasoning that it was some sort of covert message and that all love had been restored.

Well, what about the hammer and confirmation today? Reason to celebrate? Get the cheque book out fullas? No convinced? :)

Lorne Ranger

21-03-2014, 06:47 PM

Held up pretty well on average volume. History says a fall before reporting is normal though. Still in negative sentiment territory (hence why I use ST so much as a weathervane of it) ;)

Really? I would suggest you also use this ST site to try and MAKE some weather rather than just read it.....

"Anyone going to catch the falling knife? $4.00 up very soon...

I'll be waiting for you to sell me some shares @ $3.50 couta

Still watching closely. Rome wasn't destroyed in a day"

psychic

21-03-2014, 06:52 PM

Hi Moosie - . Wasn't really thinking that general sentiment had changed, but volume-wise there were I think 4 trades of 50k parcels each this afternoon, then 35k, then 3 trades totalling around 60k shares on close. Seemed like there might be perhaps at least one insto keen so perhaps encouraging. Will see Monday I guess.

skid

22-03-2014, 10:59 AM

''Rome was'nt destroyed in a day''--I like that:) Kind of my gut feeling on the US economy ""these things take time'' ''It wont happen overnight-but it will happen'':):) (sorry for the diversion--back to DIL)

klid

22-03-2014, 11:38 AM

At this rate their cash will become more valuable than the company.

skid

23-03-2014, 09:22 AM

I didnt really know that much about DIL so ,with some time on my hands I pretty much skimmed the whole thread(with the long term chart to refer to) WOW!! This should be required reading for anyone considering share investing.
It reads like a novel on the Psychology of investing in the share market.All this valuable information at others expense(no offense intended)
Moosie since it appears that you have well and truly bounced back I suppose I can say this without any ill will intended--I will never look at one of your ''winks'' in the same way again.
Im sure valuable lessons learned by all and best of luck with your new found knowledge.
Hopefully the worst is behind.
If it had'nt been for the GFC I may well have been right there with you.
A wise person once said''the mind makes a great servant,but a lousy master''

SimonHouse

24-03-2014, 01:45 PM

Whipmoney

24-03-2014, 02:12 PM

There's an article on Diligent at the NBR's website, but its behind the paywall. Can anyone inform us of the gist of it please? I understand it is in relation to Peter Huljich's recent selldown in the company?

I note there was an article halfway through last week's print edition about a new company the Huljich family have invested in called "Results.com" (the name sucks, but its apparently an online SaaS company that makes dash boarding software for sales and marketing).

Does anyone know any more about this either?

Yeah basically it says that Hujlich sold a portion (1.58m) of his shares to invest in tech startups such as Results.com and Pushpay. He also states that he has been a large investor in DIL and will continue to be with the remainder of his holdings which is it noted is now below the disclosure threshold.

This came out today but the large sell-down was last week so its likely he's stopped selling and hence the clawback in the SP.

To me this is good news, he's basically off-loaded to diversify into more speculative and potentially rewarding stocks. The silver lining is that one very large seller has likely stopped selling.

PS: I recall quite a high volume of shares being traded last week (up to a few hundred thou on given days) however was remarkably surprised how well the price held up. Volume now appears to be low again but at least in the right direction.

zigzag

24-03-2014, 02:16 PM

SimonHouse

24-03-2014, 02:26 PM

@zigzag - it's the way of the world! I don't begrudge other people making money......

@Whipmoney - thanks very much for the update. Very good of you!

notooshabby

28-03-2014, 11:22 AM

5631

A quick lesson in using swing failures and RSI for those DIL holders that love charts. :)

Thanks Alces alces, (i.e. moose (North America) or Eurasian elk (Europe) or 'Moosie' (NZ)).

What's the theory in setting the RSI bands at 70 / 30 for overbought / oversold, versus 80 / 20?

Cheers,
NTS

Snow Leopard

28-03-2014, 01:14 PM

A quick lesson in using swing failures and RSI for those DIL holders that love charts. :)

One of the endearing little traits of Technical Analysis is that there is a name for everything 'Breakout' vs 'Failed Breakout'.

Thus no matter how the random pattern play out TA has it covered.

Personally I like a nice simple price chart with some percentage trailing stop lines to give a sense of scale.

My view on DIL is that the trend is currently down.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Whipmoney

28-03-2014, 03:53 PM

What's the theory in setting the RSI bands at 70 / 30 for overbought / oversold, versus 80 / 20?

TA: It's all in the eye of the beholder who usually has the luxury of 100% hindsight.

robbo24

28-03-2014, 05:14 PM

...which says do not buy now as it is going lower. Shall we revisit this in a week then?

I will revisit, DIL will be 4.25 or above at the end of next week.

From there, it slowly starts to regain momentum back to the retest of the 5.10 during late April and early May.

You read it here first.

robbo24

28-03-2014, 05:35 PM

You're on then robbo. If you win you can put a purrrrty moose head above your home mantle piece like everyone seems to like doing these days!

Sure, you've got to make your call first though Moose...

blobbles

28-03-2014, 06:29 PM

Ha haaa, keep making those predictions TAers then some new FA facts will come out and screw all your predictions :)

robbo24

28-03-2014, 06:52 PM

Ha haaa, keep making those predictions TAers then some new FA facts will come out and screw all your predictions :)

I agree with you blobbles.

5635

blobbles

28-03-2014, 07:57 PM

Like a continuation of declining new client numbers?

Sorry, just had to!

Or an increase? Or a new product?

I didn't say it would result in a SP increase either, some FA might come out that says "Whoops, we screwed up the accounts and kept putting the decimal place in the wrong place for the amount of money we made. Actually we only have 6 million in the bank, not 60!".

robbo24

28-03-2014, 08:08 PM

"Why make billions when we could make... Millions?"

Sorry, just had to have a call on that one, couldn't resist ;)

Go with FA every time.

It's like putting a mid-game bet on the Hurricanes... Sure, their score, territory and other stats are in their favour.

But - the Crusaders are better and will win at the end of the day.

The stats mean nothing once the 80 minutes is up and the 'Saders snag the win.

tosspot

28-03-2014, 10:54 PM

JohnnyTheHorse

28-03-2014, 11:03 PM

winner69

29-03-2014, 08:21 AM

Go with FA every time.

It's like putting a mid-game bet on the Hurricanes... Sure, their score, territory and other stats are in their favour.

But - the Crusaders are better and will win at the end of the day.

The stats mean nothing once the 80 minutes is up and the 'Saders snag the win.

From a TA point of view the yellow line was above the red line most of the time and the momentum indicators of the red line were always a bit weaker than the yellow line

From a FA perspective once again past performance is not a good indicator of the future. As with most losers deep analysis will be undertaken but will be of little worth because current biases will come through. Fundamentally methinks time for the CEO to be given the boot and start afresh. Todd a really decent bloke but...

Champion teams of the past in red not doing too well at the moment ....Man United and Crusaders .....both with new CEOs next financial year?

winner69

29-03-2014, 08:26 AM

DIL a bit like the Hurricanes ......full of potential and full of stars ......but at the end of the day perennial under performers.

Every know and again they give their dedicated faithful followers a glimmer of hope that this time will be different and they will be winners .....hope that soon fades away

Reason .....underlying corporate/ team culture and poor top management governance and leadership.

Think about it ....from a FA perspective

winner69

29-03-2014, 09:12 AM

sad but true

and therefore DIL and Hurricanes should not be valued on lofty expectations ... discounts should apply

robbo24

29-03-2014, 10:19 AM

and therefore DIL and Hurricanes should not be valued on lofty expectations ... discounts should apply

I posted my thoughts at about Cru: 3 Hur: 17.

Fortunately I sold my Cru shares at Cru: 26 Hur: 24 when I was way ahead.

youngatheart

31-03-2014, 12:48 PM

Buzzy bot coming in for the kill today, probably trying to trigger stop losses. Not looking like a good start to the week, buyers are nowhere to be seen!
What ever happened to all those feel good announcements that used to come out almost weekly back in DILs heyday (circa 2 years ago)? I would have thought with the restatement behind them that they would crank them out again! Did wonders for the share price back then...

winner69

31-03-2014, 12:51 PM

Got nothing good to say methinks

Probably punters beginning to realise DIL was a one hit wonder after all

youngatheart

31-03-2014, 01:00 PM

Got nothing good to say methinks

Probably punters beginning to realise DIL was a one hit wonder after all
I HOPE that you're wrong. I confess to having a soft spot for DIL as it was my first share purchase at $1.10 years ago (after it was 10c for quite a while!). It certainly feels like DIL has lost its mojo...

robbo24

31-03-2014, 01:35 PM

Got nothing good to say methinks

Probably punters beginning to realise DIL was a one hit wonder after all

They don't want to talk to you winner69.

Not, at least, until the audited full year and results are out at the end of April.

Albeit a month late...

robbo24

31-03-2014, 05:34 PM

Whipmoney

31-03-2014, 06:08 PM

What a queer day volume wise. Anyone else thinking all the retail investers have been left holding the bathwater after the baby has been thrown out by the instos and are now unwilling to sell anything? Either that or Sparky is on the verge of buying the company outright!

I think its simply a case of the instos sitting idly on the sidelines waiting to see how cheap they can pick this up for. To be honest their analysts are probably too busy chasing their tails over the Genesis IPO.

I don't see the stock being worth less than $4 however it will take a decent Q1 sales report and eventual FY13 audited reported to spark interest again. Otherwise I fear she will plummet further.

DISC: Holding until further notice.

Leica

31-03-2014, 09:10 PM

Didn't the marketing lady move to Aria NLG?

robbo24

31-03-2014, 09:27 PM

I don't see the stock being worth less than $4 however it will take a decent Q1 sales report and eventual FY13 audited reported to spark interest again. Otherwise I fear she will plummet further.

Mr Whippy, do you mean worth $4 or priced $4 - they may be very different things in the short/mid term :)

biker

01-04-2014, 10:39 AM

Getting tempted to catchee fallee knifee. Needs to be well oversold though. :)
Quote Originally Posted by moosie_900 View Post
I'll be waiting for you to sell me some shares @ $3.50 couta

Maybe too soon?

Whipmoney

01-04-2014, 11:28 AM

Reality just kicking in again. I'm looking for a PE of 20-25 fully diluted now that options are being converted. Until that new product is announced, that is a more than reasonable number

I've stressed many times that a PE is not a reliable metric for a recurring revenue business model which has a large amount of deferred revenues on its balance sheet as earnings are an unreliable proxy of profitability given a large amount of cash (and therefore profit) is booked up-front.

FCFF is king.

Goodluck with the knife catching though.. i'm hopeful that it stays above $4.

Any idea on when the Q1 announcement will be? April 2nd?

Baddarcy

01-04-2014, 12:09 PM

Any idea on when the Q1 announcement will be? April 2nd?

Tuesday 15th is my pick.

Personally i don't think the share price will change much until the accounts mess is finally complete (im counting the delay in the latest accounts as part of the overall mess) and then i can't help but think DIL is ripe for a stock buyback, makes more sense to me than a dividend.

winner69

01-04-2014, 12:15 PM

Tuesday 15th is my pick.

Personally i don't think the share price will change much until the accounts mess is finally complete (im counting the delay in the latest accounts as part of the overall mess) .

......but it has changed and continues to change (for the worse) since they published annual numbers (which probably won't change much).

So what is going to stop the current changing or decline

Pariah of the market .... unloved and unwanted by most

iceman

01-04-2014, 02:18 PM

Tuesday 15th is my pick.

Personally i don't think the share price will change much until the accounts mess is finally complete (im counting the delay in the latest accounts as part of the overall mess) and then i can't help but think DIL is ripe for a stock buyback, makes more sense to me than a dividend.

But Mr Sodi is on recent record saying the Company believes the cash will better spent on growth, i.e. aquisition or new development, rather than a stock buyback or dividend !

Whipmoney

01-04-2014, 02:59 PM

But Mr Sodi is on recent record saying the Company believes the cash will better spent on growth, i.e. aquisition or new development, rather than a stock buyback or dividend !

And he's probably right. This company generates a decent pile of cash and if you can crank that up further then it will definitely add value.

iceman

01-04-2014, 03:11 PM

And he's probably right. This company generates a decent pile of cash and if you can crank that up further then it will definitely add value.

Agree Whipmoney. They should put the cash pile to good use. Either use it to grow the business or return it to shareholders via a share buyback. Holding it in US Treasuries does not do it for me.

Monty

01-04-2014, 03:30 PM

sharp

01-04-2014, 04:11 PM

I too am still holding faith in the company. Looks like a general sell down trend of tech stocks globally?

Monty

01-04-2014, 04:19 PM

zigzag

01-04-2014, 04:39 PM

Does anyone know if Diligent will provide those very useful quarterly updates showing growth and graphs of KPIs like they did right up until the restatement distraction came up? Usually it was about two weeks after the quarter end.without being too technical it was on the basis of this information that I believed Diligent were a great company to invest in. In fact I still am holding the faith.

It is my impression that they will not be providing the quarterly updates that you are talking about, at least until all the bookwork is up to date, as in all the t's are crossed and the i's dotted. In the meantime they are providing some commentary, to keep investors in the loop. The next news I am waiting for is the annual report, and the AGM, which should be well worth attending.

psychic

02-04-2014, 08:40 AM

Well I sold out (again) yesterday so holders can relax - DIL will rocket now.
Wasatch has this morning announced that it has increased it holding, but guessing these are rights?

psychic

02-04-2014, 08:41 AM

double post deleted

SimonHouse

02-04-2014, 08:47 AM

What they issued was an SSH, saying they now own 5.06%. They must have increased their holding given that the number of shares on the register have increased by a a few million in recent weeks.

The SSH notice here, https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/191942.pdf is a little odd because it talks about purchasing 4,379,359 shares for NZD$ 1,119,669.

I think the admin girl at Wasatch got it wrong.... the NZD sum should be much higher. Perhaps they left off a digit somewhere, or this is only the extra amount they bought to give them the 5.06%.

Either way, the SSH notice will be a useful message to the market that some people see value in DIL, albeit ones with longer time frames than some of the posters here! (I'm not beating people up, merely making the observation)

psychic

02-04-2014, 08:50 AM

Balance

02-04-2014, 08:54 AM

https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/191942.pdf

Wasatch - impressive track record of 31% pa average over last 5 years.

These guys do their homework and are obviously taking the opportunity as the traders flee to the hills to increase their stake.

I know who I will back to win.

psychic

02-04-2014, 08:55 AM

rats.............

Xerof

02-04-2014, 08:56 AM

Details of the transactions or other events requiring disclosure under the instructions to this
form: The Wasatch International Growth Fund purchased 4,379,359 shares, representing
NZD$1,119,669 on the New Zealand Stock Exchange

So $0.25 per share? yeah, saw that too, but I think they only declare the transaction that triggers the notice, in this case the days activity that took them over 5%

psychic

02-04-2014, 09:02 AM

Oh wait, 4,379,359 shares is also their total holding.
Seems like an odd way to disclose.
But anyway, we can possibly assume that those big lumps going through last week at $4.35 were theirs. Wonder if we will see more action today?

Banksie

02-04-2014, 09:12 AM

Wasatch bought into DIL pretty big last year when the price was up around $7. Guess they are averaging down.

http://www.gurufocus.com/news/220459/wasatch-international-growth-smallcap-fund-new-buys

The fact they haven't sold out though shows they still have faith in their investment.

Balance

02-04-2014, 09:14 AM

yeah, saw that too, but I think they only declare the transaction that triggers the notice, in this case the days activity that took them over 5%

They are not one of the investors who bought up big when DIL got down to 8c - Milford and Huljich did that, so I think you are right.

Meanwhile, Wasatch manages US$1.6 billion in this fund and from what I can read, they will invest up to 3% of the fund in one stock - so around US$50m?

Few more DIL to buy then.

Be interesting to see if they will get more shares now that they have disclosed - the local sellers have a habit of turning tail when a size buyer discloses itself.

psychic

02-04-2014, 09:21 AM

According to Morningstar they had sold 250000 (from microcap fund), likewise Fidelity dumped about 1.0m Shares.
Wasn't Fidelity the fund buying in last year on the way down?

sharp

02-04-2014, 02:49 PM

I like this company despite their shortcomings with the reinstatement and tardy filing. They have better accounting practices in place according to their last report so in DIL I trust. Back cross the $5 mark and onto the $6, $7 and beyond! :P

sharp

02-04-2014, 03:39 PM

Banksie

02-04-2014, 03:42 PM

Whipmoney

02-04-2014, 04:01 PM

Does anyone know when the next product launch is? It seemed like it was imminent.

Rumours that it will be for a wider audience (for down the food chain) - as the current product targets the big cheeses at board level.

No idea but I expect that it will be this financial year.

I had originally thought that it would be designed for the wider management team much like the products that some of their competitors have however they seemed to dismiss this type of product in their investor conference as a "mere bolt-on" and that their second product would be quite different.

There was some mention in the call about tapping into the government market so potentially its a Govt/NPO targetted product or something completely different..?

Whipmoney

02-04-2014, 04:20 PM

A shareholder should be able to confirm this for you, but my recollection from the conference call in early March was that they gave reasonably specific guidance on the time line for details of a new product. Am I remembering correctly?? I think they said an announcement will come re new product(s) in "the coming months". I would read that as April or May at the latest....

That being said, they have been known to not meet pre-identified target dates so I would not be holding my breath :mad ;:

By pre-identified target dates I am assuming that you are meaning the target dates for the provision of their financials? I find it hard to believe that this company gets so much grief for such a complex issue. Sure they made the initial error by having a less than ideal CFO however their early accounts were audited in compliance with SEC requirements and it took several years for this error to be identified.

Once identified they made the requisite changes and brought in some big four firms to start addressing these issues (which do take a significant amount of time and man-power etc).

It was always forseeable that a full restatement of several years of financials would never be an overnight feat... hence why they were unable to make various NZX/SEC reporting deadlines.

With regard to product development - to date they have been very coy as to the timings of this and what it would look like, so if they have announced that its coming this year then I don't see why it wouldn't.

winner69

02-04-2014, 05:34 PM

Balance

02-04-2014, 06:06 PM

If it were a complex issue they were dealing with that was no fault of there own, then I think people would have given them a lot more slack. The reality is they ballzd up big time making the initial errors and then ballzd up again and again by telling the market they would get things sorted and then fell short on those promises several times.

Anyway, that conversation is one that has been had many times over on this thread no need to go over it again I would have thought. The only reason I brought it up is that the impact that had on me as a shareholder of DIL was that I have less confidence in DILs management and timelines than other companies I have invested in.

That being said, the main point of my post was the timeline of the "new product" in response to the earlier question. Where you on that conference call in March Whipmoney? If so do you not recall the details they gave?
I;m pretty sure they said announcement(s) would be made in the coming months. To me that says an expectation of March/April/May. Can anyone else confirm?? If you go back to 3 march on this thread this seems to be confirmed.

A retired fund manager gave me a very valuable insight years ago. He said at one of our meetings in Australia that he loved it when everyone goes negative on a stock - the more negative, the better.

That's when there's maximum returns to be made if you get the story right by sorting out the sentiment from the reality.

Has DIL really fallen into such a deep hole in an operational sense that it is beyond recognition as a growth stock?

Could well be but then again, could just be purely negative sentiment. Up to each individual to assess and judge.

What I can say though is that the real money is made by those who can look beyond the negative sentiment.

The fund manager made his first million $ buying into News Corp when it nearly went under, and retired a few years after 9/11 after loading up large during 9/11.

SimonHouse

02-04-2014, 06:24 PM

That is excellent advice, thank you balance

Balance

02-04-2014, 06:28 PM

Postie Plus threatened with suspension if they don't front up with their report in a week

Much harder to count jerseys and cardigans and reconcile a stock report which is garbage .... but no respite for Postie Plus

DIL is just one big joke with all this carry on ..... an embarrassment ....should have been suspended last Ausgust

Don't disagree with you, W69.

Think of all the trading volume and profits NZX would lose though?

Mr Mark Weldon and Forsyth Barr would not approve, would they?

Dilbert

02-04-2014, 08:13 PM

Does anyone know when the next product launch is? It seemed like it was imminent.

Rumours that it will be for a wider audience (for down the food chain) - as the current product targets the big cheeses at board level.

The precise response from Sodi when asked about new products at the conference was "in the next two months or so..."

robbo24

02-04-2014, 08:23 PM

Postie Plus threatened with suspension if they don't front up with their report in a week

Much harder to count jerseys and cardigans and reconcile a stock report which is garbage .... but no respite for Postie Plus

DIL is just one big joke with all this carry on ..... an embarrassment ....should have been suspended last Ausgust

Winner, come on mate stop banging the drum. Restatement is not uncommon for US companies. It's not like they DILLED anyone.

robbo24

02-04-2014, 11:15 PM

Lower than today's close on Friday close next week :)

Not long now Moosie.

iceman

03-04-2014, 05:24 AM

The precise response from Sodi when asked about new products at the conference was "in the next two months or so..."

That's right Dilbert, that's what he said. So we should expect a new product announcement in the next month "or so" !

Balance

03-04-2014, 07:04 AM

That's right Dilbert, that's what he said. So we should expect a new product announcement in the next month "or so" !

Sigh, DIL time where 3 months become 9 months?

iceman

03-04-2014, 07:15 AM

Sigh, DIL time where 3 months become 9 months?

Sadly true Balance. "or so" is pretty stretchable :t_down:

BigBob

03-04-2014, 08:51 AM

Sigh, DIL time where 3 months become 9 months?

Isn't that what used to be called NOG time.... ??

At least it sounds better than NTL time, where "a day" appears to be "a Venus day", or the equivalent of 243 Earth days, so that "90 days" is actually equivalent to something close to 60 years.... Earth years, that is....

warthog

03-04-2014, 08:51 AM

Hmmm. Windows app.

winner69

03-04-2014, 08:58 AM

Winner, come on mate stop banging the drum. Restatement is not uncommon for US companies. It's not like they DILLED anyone.
But your own research you posted a long time ago suggests this process normally doesn't take this long .."if I remember correctly

And Postie Plus gets pinged for being a week or so late ..harde to count jerseys and cardigans I reckon

winner69

03-04-2014, 09:01 AM

Hmmm. Windows app.

WOW .....6 bucks today?

Was a price sensitive announcement so must be big

winner69

03-04-2014, 09:05 AM

Heart raced a bit .....phone truncated the heading

Announcing the Diligent Boardbooks app for Wind...

He'll I said, surely not

Announcing the Diligent Boardbooks Winding up

Shouldn't speed read and fill in the dots

psychic

03-04-2014, 09:08 AM

Strewth my timing sucks. But surely if Diligent's potential was being significantly held back by it being Apple only, then making it run on MS would have been sorted years ago?

robbo24

03-04-2014, 09:08 AM

Haha, well at least they got something t in the time frame, but is this what investors were after in terms of a "new product"?

Good step for growth. Tech savy directors who don't use ipad cos it sux. Not to mention everyone has windows devices..

winner69

03-04-2014, 09:09 AM

Haha, well at least they got something out in the time frame, but is this what investors were after in terms of a "new product"?

Maybe is a one trick pony after all

Whipmoney

03-04-2014, 09:16 AM

Maybe is a one trick pony after all

I can't say that this is necessarily surprise and delight but I guess this means that they have all bases covered and that they can always expand the tiering/pricing of their product to include access for senior management.

I don't know why they would need a whole additional product suite for senior/middle management etc as it was mentioned in some of their recent UK videos that some of the new companys (Barclays?) had several hundred users onboarded and therefore the product had likely extended well below the board level.

Will be interesting to see the price action today.

robbo24

03-04-2014, 09:18 AM

Sure, it's a good thing for DIL, but with all the expectations over at least the last year that a new product would be on the horizon, and quite a lot of R&D $ being spent, I can only imagine this is a bit of a disappointment given this is presumably the announcement the conference call referred to?? The point is, people were expecting a new product right? and this surely is not what people were hoping for? I'll leave it to the shareholders to get stuck into the details of this though.

Not disappointing, it's good. A lot of organisations will have inherent compatibility issues with ipad. Now that is not an issue. It's like translating a book into a different language, opens the door for new buyers.

psychic

03-04-2014, 09:22 AM

Agree Robbo, but a development of simple necessity none the less

SimonHouse

03-04-2014, 09:27 AM

goldfish

03-04-2014, 09:28 AM

Dissapointing , that isnt a new product, just something they should have done anyway, as well as make it for android.

robbo24

03-04-2014, 09:30 AM

Windows compatibility is an essential next step for a middle management product.

Why buy them ipads when they can log in from their PC or laptop.

Think in steps please.

Balance

03-04-2014, 09:36 AM

Dissapointing , that isnt a new product, just something they should have done anyway, as well as make it for android.

If you think of Porsche, they branched into the SUV market with the Cayenne - to very mixed reviews. It proved to be a big hit however within a few years and Porsche has become a better company for it. No one would say that the Cayenne is a new product - more a derivative of an excellent product.

Likewise, DIL making available a Windows version is branching off into another segment of the market. In effect, the bigger slice of the market where currently it is not represented.

An excellent move.

psychic

03-04-2014, 09:36 AM

Think in steps? Crikey mate, I would have had R&D on this well before I started watching growth decline

warthog

03-04-2014, 09:39 AM

Some people on this forum really are impatient and grumpy.

I think the Windows app announcement is a useful step for the company to take. If they released a Windows version of Boardbooks, its because they see money in it, not because they do it for a lark. I'm sure an Android version will come out in time, but it may require greater confidence over corporates moving to the most recent versions of Android, as I understand the Android platform is quite fragmented and therefore harder to develop on.

Yep.

These days it's not "Apple is it" or "It can only be Windows" or "Anything as long as its Android".

It's "whatever you're using, we support it".

So it's a good move by DIL to get a Windows 8-compatible app out there. Is it a killer product? No. Will it broaden acceptance/reduce resistance to adoption? Yes.

Apple made a smart move some years ago by making a Windows version of iTunes so people running Windows could access Apple cloud services, own iPhones, manage music, buy apps/music, etc.

robbo24

03-04-2014, 09:41 AM

Think in steps? Crikey mate, I would have had R&D on this well before I started watching growth decline

Send them your CV please.

goldfish

03-04-2014, 09:42 AM

If you think of Porsche, they branched into the SUV market with the Cayenne - to very mixed reviews. It proved to be a big hit however within a few years and Porsche has become a better company for it. No one would say that the Cayenne is a new product - more a derivative of an excellent product.

Likewise, DIL making available a Windows version is branching off into another segment of the market. In effect, the bigger slice of the market where currently it is not represented.

An excellent move.

I agree it is a good move, but just a natural progression that they should have done a while ago, and make it for android to. Win8 isnt used that much hasnt had great reviews and not to mention laptops and pc's are dying as tablets become the norm.
I really dont see a lot of new growth from this.
A new product it is not, its the same product for a different platform.

goldfish

03-04-2014, 09:45 AM

Send them your CV please.
Its pretty basic stuff isnt it, make app for more platforms=more potential customers.

iceman

03-04-2014, 09:45 AM

If you think of Porsche, they branched into the SUV market with the Cayenne - to very mixed reviews. It proved to be a big hit however within a few years and Porsche has become a better company for it. No one would say that the Cayenne is a new product - more a derivative of an excellent product.

Likewise, DIL making available a Windows version is branching off into another segment of the market. In effect, the bigger slice of the market where currently it is not represented.

An excellent move.

Well said. It is no doubt a good move but whether it is the new product shareholders were expecting (as Tumeric repeatedly asks) I don't think so. It is hard to say how good this move is until we start seeing new revenue being created and how much it will be.
What would have been a nice addendum to this announcement was if Microsoft or one of their subsidiaries had signed the first user agreement !

Whipmoney

03-04-2014, 09:47 AM

Win8 isnt used that much hasnt had great reviews and not to mention laptops and pc's are dying as tablets become the norm.

Its for Windows 8.1 'Surface' i.e. the windows tablets.

I imagine many large corporates use this as it would be more compatible with the file structure of their windows based PC's/Laptops.

I haven't seen too many (non-design) corporates using a broad apple solution for their desktops etc.

Whilst I wasn't blown away at first I certaintly don't think this annoucement will cause them any harm (as the money has been long spent) and it will be interesting to see how much traction they will gain from this.

robbo24

03-04-2014, 09:50 AM

Its for Windows 8.1 'Surface' i.e. the windows tablets.

I imagine many large corporates use this as it would be more compatible with the file structure of their windows based PC's/Laptops.

I haven't seen too many (non-design) corporates using a broad apple solution for their desktops etc.

Including, not limited to, surface tablets. It's ANY windows 8.1 device.

JohnnyTheHorse

03-04-2014, 09:51 AM

Certainly a good move, but one that should have been implemented some time ago. One would have to hope that this isn't the much anticipated new product. They have spent a lot of time and money on R&D so I would be somewhat surprised if it is. As I stated a few weeks ago, management needs a shakeup if they cannot prove themselves (if this is the new product then they haven't proven themselves). They are earning very large amounts of money with big bonuses, yet they are not running the company anywhere near its potential.

Whipmoney

03-04-2014, 09:53 AM

Including, not limited to, surface tablets. It's ANY windows 8.1 device.

Agreed. Just picked up the management bit too..

Diligent Board Member Services, Inc., (NZX:DIL) (www.boardbooks.com (http://www.boardbooks.com)),
provider of the world's most widely used board portal, announced it will
launch the Diligent Boardbooks app on Windows 8.1 devices, including any
Microsoft Surface later this week.

Immediate access to the latest information - and the tools to annotate,
discuss and vote on it - can help boards and management teams improve the
quality of leadership decisions.

Baddarcy

03-04-2014, 09:54 AM

Including, not limited to, surface tablets. It's ANY windows 8.1 device.

Agree, the quote says "on Windows 8.1 devices, including any Microsoft Surface later this week."

I read this as DIL increasing its potential number of clients by some fairly large multiple.

Baddarcy

03-04-2014, 09:56 AM

Agree, the quote says "on Windows 8.1 devices, including any Microsoft Surface later this week."

I read this as DIL increasing its potential number of clients by some fairly large multiple.

Not that Mr Market looks all that enthused by the announcement

Whipmoney

03-04-2014, 09:57 AM

Sorry to be monotonous, but I'm only repeatedly asking because people are skirting around the question. Up to Robbo and Simon and others I guess if they want to answer though.

As I stated earlier, whilst its not necessarily a case of surprise and delight I think its a crucial step.

However to be honest the investor call did leave me wondering what exactly a second product would look like as they dismissed some of the second products of their competitors (e.g. Boardvantage's MeetX product) as being simple bolt-on's that don't reallly achieve much.

Maybe the Windows 8.1 product is the next evolution as it is now essentially available organisation wide for Windows 8.1 adopters (i.e. doesn't require an Ipad rollout)..?

From the conference call the increased R&D was primarily due to headcount so maybe they have grown their team to work on ongoing opportunities however I imagine the new windows suite will requuire more coders etc from a maintenance/updates standpoint.

robbo24

03-04-2014, 09:57 AM

Sorry to be monotonous, but I'm only repeatedly asking because people are skirting around the question. Up to Robbo and Simon and others I guess if they want to answer though.

Yes and no.

Yes it's new and expected.

No it is not the big one but I think that is still coming.

TimmyTP

03-04-2014, 09:58 AM

I can imagine that this Windows platform would remove a barrier for many. Windows is deeply embedded in a lot of firms (especially larger ones) many of whom consider it too expensive and/or risky to manage disparate platforms. I imagine many of you would have seen that in practice - I certainly see it daily. Some interesting opinions around this here:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/tech-decision-maker/heres-why-windows-8-tablets-really-do-have-a-future-in-business/

It is tempting to make a link between "most exciting" and "most profitable", but that's not necessarily correct. Perhaps judging the relative income potential of this extension to Windows vs "something new and sexy" is something to leave up to the people who speak with Diligent's customers and potential customers regularly.

iceman

03-04-2014, 09:58 AM

Sorry to be monotonous, but I'm only repeatedly asking because people are skirting around the question. Up to Robbo and Simon and others I guess if they want to answer though.

No problems turmeric. I think it is a fair question and as a shareholder I tried to reply to it. For me this is not what I expected. That is not to say I am disappointed with it though. I think it is potentially a very good addition but not the new product I was expecting and the large amounts of R&D spent on. I suspect we will see more coming out in the near future.

Nigel

03-04-2014, 10:10 AM

Looks like a good move to me, opening up a much wider market. Only a handful of people buying though. Not much support over $4 at the moment. Will be interesting to see what happens over the coming weeks.

Xerof

03-04-2014, 10:11 AM

Baddarcy

03-04-2014, 10:18 AM

If Mobius is still following this thread, I think we would all appreciate some insight from you on:

would this be the new product?
would its development require the substantial R&D expended?

my personal view is yes and yes, but would be happy to hear your thoughts

TIA

I agree, it's the comment from Microsoft that caught my attention " it is designed from the ground up to capitalize on the unique capabilities of Microsoft's modern UI."

artemis

03-04-2014, 10:24 AM

Again, I agree with all that, but my point still stands, IF this is the "new product" announcement that the company has been hinting at for about a year now (and specifically via the conference call) then I would argue this is a disappointment. New product is a little hard to define right? Maybe this is it? or maybe there is something completely new (not just the old product via a new platform) on the horizon as well?

The company will have more than one development stream. Presume there is a plan, but commercial sensitivity may prevent more info being released.

However, Xero does flag up (at least some) future developments, and that doesn't seem to have done it any harm.

KiwiGreen

03-04-2014, 10:41 AM

I agree it is a good move, but just a natural progression that they should have done a while ago, and make it for android to. Win8 isnt used that much hasnt had great reviews and not to mention laptops and pc's are dying as tablets become the norm.
I really dont see a lot of new growth from this.
A new product it is not, its the same product for a different platform.

I believe this post is very backwards.

"laptops and pc's are dying as tablets become the norm" Widnows 8 was designed to make the link between touch screen (tablets) and pcs, so don't understand how this is negative to windows 8.

In terms of immediate growth I can't imagine a new product release that would gain traction much faster than this. It is the product DIL are proven in and known for - but now just on a different platform, I see some great additional growth from this so I also think this is a misstatement... "I really dont see a lot of new growth from this". Any company on the windows platform that has been admiring the out of reach Boardbooks product can now give DIL a call to get themselves set up (remember almost all of DILs sales are inbound). This product has spread through word of mouth between directors, so you can imagine people on Microsoft being told all about this great service that they need to get but having to reply that "we can't because we're all Windows". Flood of new business on it's way.

Fundamentally in terms of growth, revenue and profit this looks like a great move. I don't care how 'cool' or 'disruptive' a new product is as long as it brings in the cash. This will do that.

Obvious move for sure, but that's what we want. Nice and obvious, guaranteed success. If they hadn't have done this we would all be disappointed. Makes 2014 an interesting year as we can now see how this affects revenue growth going forward.

I am very pleased.

Citizen Erased

03-04-2014, 10:43 AM

How many enterprises run Windows 8.1 on the desktop? Not many, if any. It's mostly Windows 7.

Balance

03-04-2014, 10:48 AM

In terms of immediate growth I can't imagine a new product release that would gain traction much faster than this. It is the product DIL are proven in and known for - but now just on a different platform, I see some great additional growth from this so I also think this is a misstatement... "I really dont see a lot of new growth from this". Any company on the windows platform that has been admiring the out of reach Boardbooks product can now give DIL a call to get themselves set up (remember almost all of DILs sales are inbound). This product has spread through word of mouth between directors, so you can imagine people on Microsoft being told all about this great service that they need to get but having to reply that "we can't because we're all Windows". Flood of new business on it's way.

Point well made, KG.

DIL probably found that it's okay for companies to provide a director with an iPad each but that would not be the case with managers.

Most managers would be using Windows based tablets and PCs so the new product will greatly enhance Boardbooks appeal down a few levels.

Get that market moving and DIL will be ready with its new add on product across a much bigger market base.

muss1

03-04-2014, 10:53 AM

To the person who said it would be nice if Microsoft were announced as the first customer.. The announcement did allude to Microsoft being a new customer. Not black and white though..

KiwiGreen

03-04-2014, 10:57 AM

I agree, it's the comment from Microsoft that caught my attention " it is designed from the ground up to capitalize on the unique capabilities of Microsoft's modern UI."

Thanks for highlighting that point Baddarcy.

I assume from a layman's perspective this means they didn't just copy paste the current Broadbooks product but instead designed a version with the same functionality but built perfectly to the capacity of Windows 8.1. So I imagine it has a very similar feel but slight differences that are there to tailor it to the new platform.

Any more technical explanation appreciated.

Citizen Erased

03-04-2014, 10:57 AM

Point well made, KG.

DIL probably found that it's okay for companies to provide a director with an iPad each but that would not be the case with managers.

Most managers would be using Windows based tablets and PCs so the new product will greatly enhance Boardbooks appeal down a few levels.

In my experience, the iPad is the predominant tablet computer, even in organisations where it's Windows on the desktop. Last I heard, Microsoft Surface had a market share of about 3%.

The following article is worth a read:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/04/02/microsoft-selling-ipads.aspx

Balance

03-04-2014, 11:00 AM

To the person who said it would be nice if Microsoft were announced as the first customer.. The announcement did allude to Microsoft being a new customer. Not black and white though..

You mean this : "As a board member myself, I am excited that I can now access my board materials with Diligent’s world-class application on my Surface Pro.”

Citizen Erased

03-04-2014, 11:01 AM

Thanks for highlighting that point Baddarcy.

I assume from a layman's perspective this means they didn't just copy paste the current Broadbooks product but instead designed a version with the same functionality but built perfectly to the capacity of Windows 8.1. So I imagine it has a very similar feel but slight differences that are there to tailor it to the new platform.

Any more technical explanation appreciated.

Pretty much what you said. It means they didn't simply port* the existing app to a different platform, they developed a new app specifically for Windows 8.1.

*Port (an Application) - Definition: To port, in the context of "porting an application," refers to changing software programming to allow the program to run with a different operating system than the program for which it was designed.

KiwiGreen

03-04-2014, 11:05 AM

Interesting article on Windows.

Apparently the XPocalypse is this month, where 31% of pc users will need to upgrade to something new as XP will no longer be supported (with updates patches etc) by Microsoft.

Could be the kickstart needed to get people onto Windows 8.1

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2060033/windows-8-8-1-sloooowly-nears-10-percent-of-pc-market.html

psychic

03-04-2014, 11:05 AM

You mean this : "As a board member myself, I am excited that I can now access my board materials with Diligent’s world-class application on my Surface Pro.”

The guy that said this may be a board member somewhere, but he is not on the Microsoft Board.

Balance

03-04-2014, 11:15 AM

The guy that said this may be a board member somewhere, but he is not on the Microsoft Board.

Good point - he is on Nordstrom Board but now that Boardbook is available on Windows, he will be a quick convert to use Boardbook in Microsoft.

Can hardly expect Microsoft board or senior management to use iPad to access Boardbook, can you?

goldfish

03-04-2014, 11:17 AM

I believe this post is very backwards.

"laptops and pc's are dying as tablets become the norm" Widnows 8 was designed to make the link between touch screen (tablets) and pcs, so don't understand how this is negative to windows 8.

In terms of immediate growth I can't imagine a new product release that would gain traction much faster than this. It is the product DIL are proven in and known for - but now just on a different platform, I see some great additional growth from this so I also think this is a misstatement... "I really dont see a lot of new growth from this". Any company on the windows platform that has been admiring the out of reach Boardbooks product can now give DIL a call to get themselves set up (remember almost all of DILs sales are inbound). This product has spread through word of mouth between directors, so you can imagine people on Microsoft being told all about this great service that they need to get but having to reply that "we can't because we're all Windows". Flood of new business on it's way.

Fundamentally in terms of growth, revenue and profit this looks like a great move. I don't care how 'cool' or 'disruptive' a new product is as long as it brings in the cash. This will do that.

Obvious move for sure, but that's what we want. Nice and obvious, guaranteed success. If they hadn't have done this we would all be disappointed. Makes 2014 an interesting year as we can now see how this affects revenue growth going forward.

I am very pleased.

Like someone else said win is only on 3% of tablets, I dont know anyone with a tablet who uses win all android or apple, pcs and laptops are dying, and most dont have win8 on them, I just dont see how they are going to get much growth from this small number. It looks like the market feels the same at the moment judging by the sp and volume. If this is the new product we have been waiting for then I for one won't be putting my money back into dil, which I was considering....Good luck to holders though.

warthog

03-04-2014, 11:21 AM

I agree, it's the comment from Microsoft that caught my attention " it is designed from the ground up to capitalize on the unique capabilities of Microsoft's modern UI."

This is basically Microsoft taking any and all opportunity to repeat the product mantra.

Technical translation: we used Microsoft's latest SDK to develop this, or at least upgraded to it during development.

GizyGold

03-04-2014, 11:21 AM

I hold the faith for the simple reason that has been restated here so often
1. Company still signing up about 600 contracts per quarter
2. 97% retention rate
3. $60m in the bank
4. New product in development
5. Possible NASDAQ listing
6. Good product which has significant share of the market

i am not a trader and I am looking to acquire a diverse portfolio. I really like tech shares and although these are a higher risk, they are also exciting shares to own. My aim bar a takeover is to hold ten plus years.
Agree and also add to this is “new acquisitions”. An acquisition or stake in a innovate company like “Serko” would compliment there product well. Corporate travel and Corporate boardbooks could go well together….

If you have an investment timeframe of 5 years plus then it is bargain at around $ 4. There is plenty of growth potential here as they have a proven product and a good retention base to develop new products from. I have no problem of it hovering around$ 4 as it a perfect chance for me to save up and accumulate before all the big funds start buying. I recall a lot of the questions from the conference call were from investment firms and you assume they are still on the side-lines. All this accounting drama is essential before listing on the NASDAQ. The listing on NASDAQ will provide much needed volume and exposure to a wider market that better understands these types of companies.

Citizen Erased

03-04-2014, 11:22 AM

Interesting article on Windows.

Apparently the XPocalypse is this month, where 31% of pc users will need to upgrade to something new as XP will no longer be supported (with updates patches etc) by Microsoft.

Could be the kickstart needed to get people onto Windows 8.1

For consumers, yes. Most mid-size businesses/large enterprises are still deploying Windows 7 on new PCs. It's even fairly common in small businesses to buy a new PC with a Windows 8 Pro license "downgraded" to Windows 7 Pro.

Balance

03-04-2014, 11:25 AM

The guy that said this may be a board member somewhere, but he is not on the Microsoft Board.

Good point - he is on Nordstrom Board but now that Boardbook is available on Windows, he should be a quick convert to use Boardbook in Microsoft.

Can hardly expect Microsoft board or senior management to use iPad to access Boardbook, can you?

Baddarcy

03-04-2014, 11:26 AM

Sorry a bit messy but i think these are the figures we are interested in

DESKTOP MARKET SHARE

MONTH WINDOWS 7 WINDOWS XP WINDOWS 8 WINDOWS 8.1 MAC OS X 10.9 OTHER
May, 2013 44.85% 37.74% 4.27% 0.00% 0.00% 13.15%
June, 2013 44.37% 37.17% 5.10% 0.00% 0.02% 13.33%
July, 2013 44.49% 37.19% 5.40% 0.02% 0.04% 12.87%
August, 2013 45.63% 33.66% 7.41% 0.24% 0.05% 13.01%
September, 2013 46.39% 31.42% 8.02% 0.87% 0.06% 13.25%
October, 2013 46.42% 31.24% 7.53% 1.72% 0.84% 12.25%
November, 2013 46.64% 31.22% 6.66% 2.64% 2.42% 10.41%
December, 2013 47.52% 28.98% 6.89% 3.60% 2.79% 10.21%
January, 2014 47.46% 29.30% 6.62% 3.94% 3.19% 9.47%
February, 2014 47.31% 29.53% 6.38% 4.30% 3.48% 9.01%
March, 2014 48.77% 27.69% 6.41% 4.89% 3.75% 8.49%

goldfish

03-04-2014, 11:29 AM

robbo24

03-04-2014, 11:38 AM

Kinda say it all really.

Not quite, you don't generally get Windows 7 tablets. Windows 8.1 tablets (I have one) are awesome.

Watch this space.

sharp

03-04-2014, 11:46 AM

https://www.nzx.com/companies/DIL/announcements/249086

Wastach International Growth Fund purchased DIL at an average $6.26 according to the amended SHH notice.

Baddarcy

03-04-2014, 11:50 AM

Not quite, you don't generally get Windows 7 tablets. Windows 8.1 tablets (I have one) are awesome.

Watch this space.

The stats i posted were desktop only, couldn't find anything meaningful for tablets as the numbers were always merged with phone stats making them kinda useless.

Also note in the stats windows 8 and 8.1 are listed separately, if you add together they are over 11% marketshare which is higher than i was expecting (expected approx 5%).....appreciate the app is only for 8.1+

Whipmoney

03-04-2014, 12:05 PM

The stats i posted were desktop only, couldn't find anything meaningful for tablets as the numbers were always merged with phone stats making them kinda useless.

Also note in the stats windows 8 and 8.1 are listed separately, if you add together they are over 11% marketshare which is higher than i was expecting (expected approx 5%).....appreciate the app is only for 8.1+

It doesn't really matter what the broad market share is for Win 8.1 as all that is relevant is its market share amongst the Boards of Directors population in large corporates (which is probably circa 0.000000000001% of the total market).

Furthermore even if an organisation uses Windows XP or Windows 7, I would imagine that the file structure is still a heck of a lot more compatible with board members carrying Win8.1 surface tabs, than it would be for Ipads.

robbo24

03-04-2014, 12:11 PM

warthog

03-04-2014, 12:16 PM

It doesn't really matter what the broad market share is for Win 8.1 as all that is relevant is its market share amongst the Boards of Directors population in large corporates (which is probably circa 0.000000000001% of the total market).

Exactly Whipmoney.

Which is why they started supporting the most-used platform in the target market.

Mista_Trix

03-04-2014, 12:16 PM

Note that Windows tablets are also not neccessarily called tablets - they often refer to them as 'slates'.
I have a windows 7 slate, its awesome.

Would this semantic difference alter the stats if whats captured - ie. do 'tablet' (android / iPad) stats include 'slates' (windows 7/8) for example.

Banksie

03-04-2014, 12:51 PM

Here are the Gartner tablet stats for 2012 - 2013.

5659

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2674215

Which shows Android way out ahead, although Microsoft have had the biggest growth.

As noted though, it is more important to know which tablets the target market is using.

blobbles

03-04-2014, 12:53 PM

As an IT guy, I can tell you that many IT security/infrastructure people would have refused straight away to having any non Windows machines connecting as part of their corporate network. Particularly any machine that is storing incredibly sensitive data. This is because it brings in a security vulnerability that has to be managed and is a vulnerability which most IT security people are not used to accounting for. That would have been a killer for any iPad based app from the start and I imagine many a conversation along these lines when it came to purchasing a product such as Broadbooks:

Director: "We really want this app it will help us manage our papers and we can do it all on iPads"
Head of IT: "Sounds really good from a user perspective, saves paper also. Do they have a windows version?"
Director: "No, but its still a great app. We need it."
Head of IT: "Sorry, its against our internal security policy to have non windows apps connecting to our networks. Installation of key loggers/viruses/screen grabbers etc are possibilities as our corporate security management software does not extend to iPads. It would be a great risk to the organisation to have an iPad accessing key papers of this sort."
Director: "%$#%^@# but I guess you are right"

Not saying that the "Head of IT" is exactly correct, but I am sure this would have been said a number of times from experience. Also note that many IT security people will only allow machines running versions of Windows that are 1-2 versions behind the most up-to-date. This is due to the OS being stable and its vulnerabilities being mostly patched, with those that are not being mostly known and managed. In this case, I am not sure a Head of IT would allow Windows 8.1 machines also, but it is more likely they would allow these than iPads.

In my opinion a windows app removes a potential sales block.

This most certainly cannot be their "new product" they are talking about IMHO. Especially not considering their R&D costs as a Windows version would be fairly straight forward to develop. A new product indicates an entirely new goal/problem solved, code base and development in IT circles.

sharp

03-04-2014, 02:16 PM

In complete agreement with bobbles re: non-windows os security and the "new product" point.

Diligent will no doubt be announcing positives news in the coming weeks including the filing of the delayed financial statement and the "new product" announcement.

zigzag

03-04-2014, 03:02 PM

And at last, an announcement looking to the future, rather than concerning the past!

Xerof

03-04-2014, 03:09 PM

This most certainly cannot be their "new product" they are talking about IMHO. Especially not considering their R&D costs as a Windows version would be fairly straight forward to develop. A new product indicates an entirely new goal/problem solved, code base and development in IT circles.

Ok, thanks for your comments Blobbles. I bow to your greater expertise and await further developments with keen interest.

Not currently holding

Citizen Erased

03-04-2014, 03:28 PM

What is that saying about lies, damned lies and statistics? Practically every new PC leaves the factory with a Windows 8/8.1 OEM license sticker on the case. It doesn't matter whether the end user customer "downgrades" to Windows 7 or uses their Microsoft volume license to deploy Windows 7 to that machine, it shows up in the sales figures as a Windows 8/8.1 sale.

Getting back on topic, I think it's good that Diligent has released a Windows app, but I sure as hell hope this isn't the new product we've been waiting for, as I can't see it doing much to boost the share price.

Snow Leopard

03-04-2014, 03:28 PM

5660
This is not the app you're looking for.

Without going all surfersteve-esque on you guys todays announcement raises a number of a interesting questions (both good & bad) to which I could only speculate (so I won't) as to the answer.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Whipmoney

03-04-2014, 03:48 PM

All this talk has made me wonder; Has DIL ever actually stated/inferred a "new" product is in the making? and when I say new I mean not the old one on a different platform. I'm starting to feel confused as to whether the "new" product talk was a share trader created idea or whether DIL actually said they were working on something. If DIL has actually said a new product is on the way when did this talk start and are there links to confirm this? Cheers.

There is reference to a new product in some of the brokerage reports so I suspect this is something that the company raised. Today's announcement may well not be it.

Maybe someone should ask the company to rule it out?

robbo24

03-04-2014, 04:11 PM

youngatheart

03-04-2014, 04:35 PM

In the not too distant past whenever there was an announcement there would often be a 2-3 day delay before you'd get a big SP response from overseas investors. Will be watching to see if that's the case this time. Watching carefully the next 2-3 days to determine if that pattern plays out. :confused:

Whipmoney

03-04-2014, 04:51 PM

I only have one thing to say:

"The market is always right even when it's wrong, and its actions always speak louder than words".

That makes no sense as if that's the case it would be impossible to profit from the market as everything would be priced in.

The market isn't prescient.. this is easily evident and can simply be observed by looking at the PEB chart between 3 Oct and 16 Oct. The market clearly did not know that a contract signing was coming, the share price was slowly slumping yet the FA investors made their bets on that this would eventuate. The technicals were quickly proven wrong on the morning of October 15 and the share price more than trippled over the days subsequent.

Unfortunately educated guesses is all we have to work with.

TimmyTP

03-04-2014, 05:49 PM

Google just found me an interesting business case, written by a NZ DHB and dated October 2013.

It notes the IT department's "strong preference" for a Windows device for their boardbooks solution.

Their choice of Diligent Boardbooks appears to have been facilitated by Diligent promising support on Windows in March 2014.

Just one example, but unless I am grossly mistaken, it is direct evidence of this Windows support enabling a sale.

Dilbert

03-04-2014, 07:23 PM

Putting aside restatement issues, and whether or not 'new' products come along, all I see is a growing company with good prospects with its current product, especially in Europe and Asia. Its got a great reputation in the market. All this is now assisted with its Windows app, which will open up another bunch of opportunities. At the last conference call which I listened in on, Sodi & Co sounded pretty confident of future growth prospects. I think its fairly priced right now given what we know. Hopefully we can soon see some good results for the last quarter.

Longhaul

03-04-2014, 07:25 PM

The fact that todays announcement is simply the old product on a new platform appears to me to be a disappointment IF (and only IF) this is all they have got. As Robbo says though, the big one may still be to come, but who knows now.....

It sounds kind of similar to a hypothetical Japanese car company announcing it was making left-hand drive vehicles for the American market. Yes, it's not really much of a big deviation from their existing cars, but it does open up a big market.

Disc. never been a holder.

zspoon

03-04-2014, 07:46 PM

Lots of fearmongering and upset non-holders, with little actual analysis.

2007: $1.3m
2008: $1.0m (leveling off of expenses after key enhancements hit)
2009: $0.7m (key enhancements hit, reduction in staffing)
2010: $1.0m (increase in staffing due to new product development including Boardbooks for iPad, plus more NY R&D staff)
2011: $1.5m (increase in staffing due to new product development including Boardbooks for iPad, plus more NY R&D staff)
2012: $2.3m (increase in staffing due to product upgrades and enhancements, plus more NY R&D staff, flagged increased 2013 R&D expenditure to 'expand market share by increasing investment in R&D')
2013: $4.5m (no commentary provided, HY commentary [HY R&D expense approximately 40% of y/e] mentions only 'increased staffing')

Compare the expenditure on R&D up to release of the iPad app to up to the Windows app. Do you really think development of the Windows app is exponentially more expensive, especially considering it's essentially porting an existing product to a new platform?

Hoop

03-04-2014, 09:51 PM

That makes no sense as if that's the case it would be impossible to profit from the market as everything would be priced in.

The market isn't prescient.. this is easily evident and can simply be observed by looking at the PEB chart between 3 Oct and 16 Oct. The market clearly did not know that a contract signing was coming, the share price was slowly slumping yet the FA investors made their bets on that this would eventuate. The technicals were quickly proven wrong on the morning of October 15 REALLY!! I think not.. thi and the share price more than trippled over the days subsequent.

Unfortunately educated guesses is all we have to work with..

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/DIL03042014-1.png (http://s458.photobucket.com/user/Hoop_1/media/DIL03042014-1.png.html)

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/PEB.png (http://s458.photobucket.com/user/Hoop_1/media/PEB.png.html)

robbo24

03-04-2014, 10:10 PM

pictures of charts

Thanks Hoopy - interesting things to digest

Snow Leopard

04-04-2014, 01:30 AM

5660
This is not the app you're looking for.

So apparently the joke fell flat - I thought "This is not the android app you're looking for" was too obvious [and perhaps I also need to explain this is the tense scene from the original Stars Wars Movie where Obi-Wan Kenobe says "these aren't the droids you're looking for".*]

So anyway DIL now have a Windows version of the client to go with the iPad but are still lacking an Android version and thus are still behind some of their competition (http://www.boardvantage.com/platform/mobility), maybe important and maybe not.

As the press release (http://www.boardbooks.com/news-events/press-releases/announcing-the-diligent-boardbooks-app-for-windows-81) makes the claim that "it is designed from the ground up to capitalize on the unique capabilities of Microsoft’s modern UI" one wonders just how much effort & money went into this Windows version, whether they have re-factored/re-engineered the iPad version and just how much code is currently shared between the two. One can only speculate on how they handle the multi-platform issues going forward.

So is there an android version in the wings?
And is there a whole new product, in flavours including apple, to come?

As for the whole FA/TA thing - please not here.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[*If you have never seen the movie it is interesting to see how they did Sci-Fi before CGI came along]

robbo24

04-04-2014, 06:56 AM

"it is designed from the ground up to capitalize on the unique capabilities of Microsoft’sn UI"[/COLOR] one wonders just how much effort & money went into this Windows version, whether they have re-factored/re-engineered the iPad version and just how much code is currently shared between the two. One can only speculate on how they handle the multi-platform issues going forward.

This is the most words I've ever seen in a PT post...

Anyway, the windows 8 ui is unique compared to older windows versions. The ui was designed with a (reportedly) touch screen friendly angle. Windows 8 introduced the capability of having android/ipad style "apps", which are few and far between when it comes to genuinely useful software. I still think it's a very good step.

kjm

04-04-2014, 09:00 AM

My first post ever on this site but have been a reader of this thread for quite while. I own shares in DIL and follow them closely. So I thought I would offer some background about the move to Microsoft based on what I know. Behind everything DIL does is security of data - Alex Sodi has made public comments that this is what keeps him awake at night. The data they store is obviously highly sensitive and it it were hacked, then they would have no business. To DIL, IPADS are secure, but Androids are not - that is the simple reason behind not offering the service on Androids - the software is just not secure enough for their liking. This move into Microsoft 8.1 would not have happened unless the security of Windows 8.1 is watertight, and DIL would have tested this to the extreme. The move opens up a whole range of users who don't have Ipads but will use Microsoft 8.1. I remember when DIL first put their product onto iPADS - sales rocketed, and there's every chance the same will happen here. Hope that helps.

Whipmoney

04-04-2014, 09:11 AM

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/DIL03042014-1.png (http://s458.photobucket.com/user/Hoop_1/media/DIL03042014-1.png.html)

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/PEB.png (http://s458.photobucket.com/user/Hoop_1/media/PEB.png.html)

Sorry I should have said the morning of the 16th as that was the date of the announcement.

Either way did you buy on the morning of the 16th then? What percentage gain did you make? Actually just in general, if the charts are so accurate I struggle to see how technical traders such as yourself don't make triple digit gains given the potentially large break-outs (like the PEB example) that exist.

robbo24

04-04-2014, 10:23 AM

Going to be a tight one this bet! Just proves charts say "it's going this way" but doesn't factor in announcements, yet again! :)

It was going that way without the announcement! It was already HAMMER TIME. The announcement did diddley squat. I am hopeful to get my mounted moose head on the wall come 5pm.

robbo24

04-04-2014, 11:27 AM

Are we going to be arguing over cents come 5pm???

I said 425 or higher at close today.

You can window dress all you like come 4.45pm, but the entire windowsill will be swept away by the turning tide!!

robbo24

04-04-2014, 11:35 AM

Still some time to go. Fat lady ain't singing yet ;)

Yes but she's big and she's humming while chewing on a moose shank.

Mobius

04-04-2014, 11:50 AM

Director: "We really want this app it will help us manage our papers and we can do it all on iPads"
Head of IT: "Sounds really good from a user perspective, saves paper also. Do they have a windows version?"
Director: "No, but its still a great app. We need it."
Head of IT: "Sorry, its against our internal security policy to have non windows apps connecting to our networks. Installation of key loggers/viruses/screen grabbers etc are possibilities as our corporate security management software does not extend to iPads. It would be a great risk to the organisation to have an iPad accessing key papers of this sort."
Director: "%$#%^@# but I guess you are right"

In my decade at Diligent, I never heard of this happening even once. The IT teams were always very accommodating. Remember, the iPad does not "need to connect to the corporate network", it only needs to have an internet connection. It is a secure app. The security is greater than is necessary.

To my knowledge, none of Diligent's clients have ever had a philosophical problem with the security of Boardbooks, nor the iPad delivery platform. In fact, I would say that companies have generally welcomed Boardbooks as a brilliant out-sourced solution to a very large internal problem.

If you read back hundreds of pages, you'll find a lot of fools asserting that Boardbooks is nothing but a glorified document management system, and that 2 drunken idiots can knock out something just as good in 2 weekends. This is patently untrue. I have always asserted that to get an equivalent system up and running, you're looking at 20 to 30 million dollars in development costs, and 3 years, if you start today. Then you'd need some customers. And you'd be completing against Diligent - who will slaughter you.

As to the release of the Windows 8.1 version: my understanding is that it is a completely new codebase for the app, and as such is a non-trivial investment. It's equivalent to the iPad app in uniqueness. This work was started after I left however, so I have no knowledge of the details.

To me it's a no-brainer that Windows Surface support was required for Boardbooks - BUT - in my time at DIL, I was never aware of any potential client who would not sign as a result of the lack of a windows tablet app. I never experienced any client who was pushing us hard to support Windows tablets, either. (2+ years in the IT world is basically forever, though)

As DIL extends the range of devices and platforms Boardbooks is available on (and don't forget the Browser version, which inherently supports all standards-compliant browsers) it simply removes the last possible stumbling blocks to client acquisition. Does it mean something completely new is on the way?

It's fun to speculate about a genuinely "new" product, BUT, anything "new" is more likely to be a spin-off of Boardbooks. Call it "Boardbooks Lite", if you like, with several key features missing from the full product. I can also imagine Boardbooks Proper being segmented for management use, so that everyone gets the same app, but what is does and how it behaves for you varies on the license level.

However, prediction is always fraught with difficulty - especially when it's about the future, so I'm not prepared to put a bet on anything, except that DIL will continue to acquire Boardbooks (Proper) clients at a slightly higher rate than they have been, and that client retention will stay at (or above!) 97%.

=================
How man escape pods are there? "None, Sir!" You counted them? "Twice, Sir!"

SimonHouse

04-04-2014, 12:08 PM

Xerof

04-04-2014, 12:22 PM

Harvey Specter

04-04-2014, 12:34 PM

I never experienced any client who was pushing us hard to support Windows tablets, either. (2+ years in the IT world is basically forever, though)2+ years ago, there was no real competitor to the iPad.

What I found interesting is that Microsoft has adopted Boardbooks for its own directors' use, which kind of puts the lie to the statement that you can whip something up in Sharepoint and a Microsoft cloud solution for document management.I dont think it says Microsoft uses Diligent. It is actually a weird quote and am surprised Microsoft allowed it. It would be good to get this confirmed one way or another.

TimmyTP

04-04-2014, 12:39 PM

Remember, the iPad does not "need to connect to the corporate network"The way I read the DHB business case I found yesterday is that the decision went more like this:
User rep: "We like Diligent Boardbooks and we want to buy some tablets to run it on"

IT rep: "It's only supported on iPads, isn't it? That's a a problem because they are going to be more effort to support. We're all trained up on Windows 8 for our new rollout - why can't we choose something that runs on that? Anyway, what about the other things we would do with these tablets - you mean we're going to have to find iPad apps for everything all that too? Or buy and support iPads and Windows tablets?"

Diligent salesperson: "Funny you should mention that; if you wait until March next year, we will have a version that runs on Windows tablets. You know that Windows surface is cheaper than an iPad too, don't you? You could get two surface pro2s and a bunch of surface pros for less than the iPads you were planning to buy"

User rep: "There you go Norbert, you can plan the rollout for March then, that gives you 5 months to get it all sorted. Any chance you could make it so I can change the colour of the icon to match whatever outfit I'm wearing? That would be an awesome new feature."

Diligent salesperson: "We'll look at prioritising that. Please sign here"

SimonHouse

04-04-2014, 12:42 PM

2+ years ago, there was no real competitor to the iPad.

I dont think it says Microsoft uses Diligent. It is actually a weird quote and am surprised Microsoft allowed it. It would be good to get this confirmed one way or another.

it sure looks that way:

“I am excited to have the Diligent Boardbooks application available on our Windows 8.1 platform,” said Kevin Turner, chief operating officer, Microsoft Corporation. “In its app design, Diligent has fully embraced the Microsoft principles of quality, speed and fluidity to enable people and organizations to do more. Diligent Boardbooks is one of the most advanced B2B apps out there, and it is designed from the ground up to capitalize on the unique capabilities of Microsoft’s modern UI. As a board member myself, I am excited that I can now access my board materials with Diligent’s world-class application on my Surface Pro.”

heck of an endorsement anyway. Why build a Sharepoint dox box mashup with basic Microsoft tools when the Microsoft COO is excited about Diligent?

psychic

04-04-2014, 12:43 PM

What I found interesting is that Microsoft has adopted Boardbooks for its own directors' use, which kind of puts the lie to the statement that you can whip something up in Sharepoint and a Microsoft cloud solution for document management.

if any company could do this, it would be Microsoft. Yet they bought Diligent's solution.

Makes me wonder if they might like the product so much they might buy the company!

The recent announcement implied that the Microsoft were using Boardbooks because a MS Officer said he was a Board Member and could now use it. What it did not spell out was that he is not a member of the MS board, but an independent Director for some rag chain.

I agree that there is now the opportunity to pick up MS as a client, will be interesting to see if that happens.
Does the Apple board use Boardbooks I wonder...?

iceman

04-04-2014, 12:56 PM

The way I read the DHB business case I found yesterday is that the decision went more like this:
User rep: "We like Diligent Boardbooks and we want to buy some tablets to run it on"

IT rep: "It's only supported on iPads, isn't it? That's a a problem because they are going to be more effort to support. We're all trained up on Windows 8 for our new rollout - why can't we choose something that runs on that? Anyway, what about the other things we would do with these tablets - you mean we're going to have to find iPad apps for everything all that too? Or buy and support iPads and Windows tablets?"

Diligent salesperson: "Funny you should mention that; if you wait until March next year, we will have a version that runs on Windows tablets. You know that Windows surface is cheaper than an iPad too, don't you? You could get two surface pro2s and a bunch of surface pros for less than the iPads you were planning to buy"

User rep: "There you go Norbert, you can plan the rollout for March then, that gives you 5 months to get it all sorted. Any chance you could make it so I can change the colour of the icon to match whatever outfit I'm wearing? That would be an awesome new feature."

Diligent salesperson: "We'll look at prioritising that. Please sign here"

What I find interesting in what you've said about the DHB case is that you assert the DHB was aware of this Windows application coming out a long time before it was announced to the market. As I regard this as a material announcement, I find that incredible !

Whipmoney

04-04-2014, 01:04 PM

What I found interesting is that Microsoft has adopted Boardbooks for its own directors' use, which kind of puts the lie to the statement that you can whip something up in Sharepoint and a Microsoft cloud solution for document management.

if any company could do this, it would be Microsoft. Yet they bought Diligent's solution.

Makes me wonder if they might like the product so much they might buy the company!

Is there confirmation that Microsoft has adopted this as from the disclosure and subsequent discussion on here, it seems as though the MS guy mentioned he used it in his capacity as a director (which was found to be at Nordstrom and not at Microsoft).

Harvey Specter

04-04-2014, 01:29 PM

it sure looks that way:

“I am excited to have the Diligent Boardbooks application available on our Windows 8.1 platform,” said Kevin Turner, chief operating officer, Microsoft Corporation. “In its app design, Diligent has fully embraced the Microsoft principles of quality, speed and fluidity to enable people and organizations to do more. Diligent Boardbooks is one of the most advanced B2B apps out there, and it is designed from the ground up to capitalize on the unique capabilities of Microsoft’s modern UI. As a board member myself, I am excited that I can now access my board materials with Diligent’s world-class application on my Surface Pro.”I wonder if that is like the time Oprah tweeted how fantastic her new Microsoft phone is (unfortunatley it was sent from an iPhone).

He is not a director of Microsoft but he may well be a director of one/many of its subsidiary companies.

Still on the face of it, it does look positive.

blobbles

04-04-2014, 01:42 PM

In my decade at Diligent, I never heard of this happening even once. The IT teams were always very accommodating. Remember, the iPad does not "need to connect to the corporate network", it only needs to have an internet connection. It is a secure app. The security is greater than is necessary.

To my knowledge, none of Diligent's clients have ever had a philosophical problem with the security of Boardbooks, nor the iPad delivery platform. In fact, I would say that companies have generally welcomed Boardbooks as a brilliant out-sourced solution to a very large internal problem.

If you read back hundreds of pages, you'll find a lot of fools asserting that Boardbooks is nothing but a glorified document management system, and that 2 drunken idiots can knock out something just as good in 2 weekends. This is patently untrue. I have always asserted that to get an equivalent system up and running, you're looking at 20 to 30 million dollars in development costs, and 3 years, if you start today. Then you'd need some customers. And you'd be completing against Diligent - who will slaughter you.

As to the release of the Windows 8.1 version: my understanding is that it is a completely new codebase for the app, and as such is a non-trivial investment. It's equivalent to the iPad app in uniqueness. This work was started after I left however, so I have no knowledge of the details.

To me it's a no-brainer that Windows Surface support was required for Boardbooks - BUT - in my time at DIL, I was never aware of any potential client who would not sign as a result of the lack of a windows tablet app. I never experienced any client who was pushing us hard to support Windows tablets, either. (2+ years in the IT world is basically forever, though)

As DIL extends the range of devices and platforms Boardbooks is available on (and don't forget the Browser version, which inherently supports all standards-compliant browsers) it simply removes the last possible stumbling blocks to client acquisition. Does it mean something completely new is on the way?

It's fun to speculate about a genuinely "new" product, BUT, anything "new" is more likely to be a spin-off of Boardbooks. Call it "Boardbooks Lite", if you like, with several key features missing from the full product. I can also imagine Boardbooks Proper being segmented for management use, so that everyone gets the same app, but what is does and how it behaves for you varies on the license level.

However, prediction is always fraught with difficulty - especially when it's about the future, so I'm not prepared to put a bet on anything, except that DIL will continue to acquire Boardbooks (Proper) clients at a slightly higher rate than they have been, and that client retention will stay at (or above!) 97%.

=================
How man escape pods are there? "None, Sir!" You counted them? "Twice, Sir!"

I don't really accept your explanation Mobius, as you say the new Windows app removes a "stumbling block" to new clients, yet refute that iPad only wasn't a stumbling block to new clients. I think you will find it is either one way or the other and your explanation seems a little contradictory to me. Mind you, you do say that it was 2+ years ago - a time before Surface tabs came out so (October 2012) so the situation could have changed since you were there.

Personally I don't believe DIL would have spent time developing a Windows app if it was not providing a significant stumbling block to gaining new clients. Why spend money on an app that will almost double all future development/maintenance costs if it isn't providing you with increased sales? Surely they must have had a push from a number of potential clients, investigated the idea from a cost/benefit perspective before going down this path etc. I.e. done some due diligence on the matter!

TimmyTP

04-04-2014, 01:45 PM

What I find interesting in what you've said about the DHB case is that you assert the DHB was aware of this Windows application coming out a long time before it was announced to the market. As I regard this as a material announcement, I find that incredible !Presumably the information was given under some sort of NDA (this is partly why I have not posted a link to the doc I found).
I have seen plenty of salespeople tell customers about forthcoming products - and some that are figments of their imagination :eek2:

robbo24

04-04-2014, 06:58 PM

"What we got here, is failure to communicate. Some Moose you just can't reach..."

It seems we had two different bets going on and no no conclusive agreement when we look back (last Fridays close was $4.30). However, as my bet was tied and Robbo's bet was right, I concede defeat.

Just goes to prove that charts CAN predict the future... if announcements don't come along to screw them up!

It all seems a bit like this sometimes with the market:

"First you must find... another shrubbery! Then, when you have found the shrubbery, you must place it here, beside this shrubbery, only slightly higher so you get a two layer effect with a little path running down the middle. ("A path! A path!") Then, you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest... with... A HERRING!!!"

Well played my mate robbo, well played ;)

Moose

Moosie, your concession is superfluous:

I will revisit, DIL will be 4.25 or above at the end of next week.

From there, it slowly starts to regain momentum back to the retest of the 5.10 during late April and early May.

You read it here first.

You're on then robbo. If you win you can put a purrrrty moose head above your home mantle piece like everyone seems to like doing these days!

Sure, you've got to make your call first though Moose...

Lower than today's close on Friday close next week :)

So what can we say?

As Robbo predicted, DIL is above 4.25.
Contrary to Moosie's prediction, the price is not lower than last Friday's close. This means Moosie is incorrect.
On both the facts and Moosie's concession, Moosie has undertaken to deliver a Moose Head (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LARGE-MOOSE-HEAD-WALL-MOUNT-LODGE-CABIN-HOME-DECO-TAXIDERMY-/161261293080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258bec0e18) to Robbo24.

Blobbles wins the bonus prize:

Ha haaa, keep making those predictions TAers then some new FA facts will come out and screw all your predictions :)

But as we all know, Robbo had his finger in this pie too:

I agree with you blobbles.
5635

Baddarcy

04-04-2014, 09:36 PM

"What we got here, is failure to communicate. Some Moose you just can't reach..."e

Hmm a gunners fan.....wouldn't have guessed it in a million years. Good on ya.

blobbles

05-04-2014, 02:47 AM

Yussss, bonus prize!

sharp

08-04-2014, 10:05 AM

Reinstatement completed! woohoo!

Baddarcy

08-04-2014, 10:52 AM

woohoo!

AGREED !! almost, just the delayed 2013 reports now....

Not a good day for tech stocks by the looks of it.

Mobius

08-04-2014, 12:17 PM

Blobbles; times change. At the time the iPad app came out, there wasn't any serious competition to it, and there was no customer resistance to purchasing iPads exclusively for Boardbooks use by board members. The cost of iPads wasn't an issue either. There was a lot of discussion about Android, but no action was taken on it - other than to get the browser version working on the standard browser.

There was no Windows Surface during my time at DIL, and it is certain that Surfaces are slowly working their way into the corporate IT mix in recent times. Diligent will have recognised the trend early, and begun a development program which would bring the Surface Version to fruition before it became a problem.

I seriously doubt any appreciable volume of sales has been lost (or held up) due to no Surface/Tablet-style support in the past. Corporates who wanted Boardbooks were always quite willing to buy iPads especially for the Board's use. Now, Diligent will be able to offer all potential customers a tablet option that fits *easily* into their IT mix. What this means is less time (and hassle) in the sales process, and a smoother implementation experience for the client.

Remember, a Surface machine IS a Windows box, so owners have been able to use Diligent Boardbooks/OneClick on them for some time now. The release of this version merely allows users to interact with Boardbooks in a more tablet-friendly way than they're been able to in the past.

Much more importantly, with Windows 8 being the future in the corporate world, it's almost certain that the traditional "Diligent OneClick" and "Boardbooks" windows applications will slowly become obsolete, and this new version will be the basis of the vast majority of all future installations. With OneClick on the way out, many options open up for Diligent's continued development of the Boardbooks "platform" - and some of them could be very exciting. So I don't think there's any reason for the R&D budget to drop any time soon, as there will be plenty of internal projects in the pipeline (*cough* accounting and sales/upgrades *cough*), plus whatever the board decides to do with the product itself.

This release is the continuation of Diligent's attempt to stay on top of the technology curve, and to stay in the number 1 spot. So, it's good news - for sure, but not awesome news. Signing Microsoft would be awesome news.

----------------------
How many escape pods are there? "NONE, SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"

iceman

09-04-2014, 05:04 PM

No comments on the restatements !!
I have just been reading through the 1Q 2013 restatement. I am not reading too much into numbers until we get FY 2013 by 30 April and the 1Q14, hopefully by 10 May or so.

But a couple of issues confuse me a little in this restatement that maybe some of the savvy accounts people on here can clarify:
# They have declared $ 919k (accumulated) in uncollected sales tax in several states in the US and stated that this will increase to a total of $ 1.5m for FY13. What is not clear is whether they will collect this from customers or is it all too late/difficult now and DIL will have to carry this cost instead ?
They do state “we intend to start collecting and remitting sales tax in certain states in 2014”.

I am just trying to understand the full cost of the serious mistakes Management/Board have made and the effect on the cash pile, knowing that the Special Committee has already reported over $2M in costs and more to come for 2Q13 before it was disbanded. Then we have all the work on reinstatement costing several millions of dollars.
Related to this, one also wonders if there is a risk of some litigation or Government investigations into these irregularities !

One positive from this statement is that the restated accounts confirm a GP margin has grown from 72% in 1Q12 to 80% in 1Q13 and a large increase in cash on hand. They also say “the company anticipates increased cash flow for the remainder of 2013”, which they should already know.
But they also state that growth in the US is slowing due to intense competition.

But I suppose we really have to wait until May to start to get some sort of feel how the company is currently doing.

youngatheart

09-04-2014, 05:13 PM

Have you just bought some DIL then Moosie?

Lorne Ranger

12-04-2014, 06:00 PM

I think that with all that has happened (or is happening) with tech stocks SPs the fact that this Diligent thread was (until now) on the second page, just goes to demonstrate how little it was affected. Scant comfort that the stock has already beaten itself into a pulp, so the bully's pretty much ignored it. I'm impressed it has held up so will in the last week or so, I am sure it has been noted, and it MAY place it well for a bit for a bit of a rally when the NASDAQ turns upwards again (as I have no doubt it will by the end of this week at the latest). DIL had been the obvious choice for me to convert to cashflow, but I think i might just hold out for a bit and see...

winner69

12-04-2014, 07:07 PM

Baddarcy

15-04-2014, 09:25 AM

no sign of the quarterly yet....

Whipmoney

15-04-2014, 09:33 AM

no sign of the quarterly yet....

Its normally on a Tuesday right?

Baddarcy

15-04-2014, 09:43 AM

Its normally on a Tuesday right?

Yes it is usually

sharp

15-04-2014, 09:54 AM

Are we foreseeing good or bad news?

Baddarcy

15-04-2014, 01:10 PM

Are we foreseeing good or bad news?

I was expecting neither good nor bad...more of the same...about the same number of new clients as previous quarters and somewhere around 7m-8m increase in cash....maybe some news on how the increased focus in Europe is going...maybe some early indication on how the Windows 8.1 app is going...

youngatheart

15-04-2014, 05:56 PM

I imagine you won't hear anything until the very last Tuesday of the month (29th April) when I expect you'll get it all at once. Fingers crossed there is no delay...

blobbles

15-04-2014, 06:18 PM

The big one for me regarding Diligent is the HY14 report. That will tell me a few things, most importantly, how much of the restatement expenses are ongoing and what is the outlook going forward regarding expenses. I might have to wait for the AGM or FY14 report for the last one though.

The big shock and reason why the SP is low still, I believe, is that the restated FY13 report showed Op Exp growing ridiculously, almost by 100%, yet customer numbers aren't increasing by the same rate or anywhere close to. In theory a SaaS company should be getting cheaper and cheaper to run per customer, not dramatically more expensive. For me, DIL must explain why their General and Admin expenses and their R&D grew by 100% each with very little to show for it so far. We know that about $7.5 million in "Special Committee and one time costs" will be restatement costs, but that does not explain the massive growth in the other cost areas. What I do know is they moved to flash new offices and their CEO (who oversaw a massive f**k up) got paid ridiculously for average to poor performance. To me and I think to others, this reeks severely. You don't pat yourselves on the back for doing average to poorly.

This can all be turned around if the company begins performing again, but if customer numbers remain steady and Admin expenses also remain steady or worse start rising, there is something very wrong. And I will be exiting at whatever I can get for them. Currently sitting around $3.80 cost price for me, so not long until I might be seeing red.

A new product, a major increase in customer numbers/revenue etc is what is required for shareholders to get some confidence back in management. Cos right now, there is a severe shortage of confidence regarding their abilities vs the price we are paying for them.