Diligent Boardbooks IPO

[tosspot]

Xero has kind of made this stock alot more interesting in terms of the near future because say this shoots up $9 or $10 usually everyone would think uhh oh and sell of but after seeing xero fly past and go to $15. it really could go anywhere, makes me want to hold even more at the prosepect of a similar run but at the moment a low possibility

[CJ]

Looks the market likes the fact the CFO is buying up massive amounts at $7.46. I dont think he has bought any shares. He has been issued options which are already in the money (not a very high hurdle!). They will probably vest over the next 3 years so he will receive the benefit of any share price appreciation.

[stoploss]

Moosie maybe read this a little more carefully.My reading is he has been issued with options , he is not hoovering any stock on the market...


Looks the market likes the fact the CFO is buying up massive amounts at $7.46. A good sign to shareholders (including moi; jumped back in for the long haul now ;) )


NOTIFICATION OF ALLOTMENT OF SECURITIES – OPTIONS
8:30am, 16 May 2013 | ALLOT

16 May 2013

NOTIFICATION OF ALLOTMENT OF SECURITIES - OPTIONS

For the purposes of Listing Rule 7.12.1 of the NZSX/NZDX Listing Rules, Diligent Board Member Services, Inc. (DIL) advises that the following securities have been issued:

a Class of security Unlisted options over ordinary shares
ISIN N/A

b Number issued 260,000

c Nominal value N/A
Issue price Nil on issue. The options have an exercise price NZ$7.46 per ordinary share.

d Payment in cash N/A

e Amount paid up N/A

f Percentage of class of securities 100% (if these options were exercised on the date of this notice the number of ordinary shares that would be issued would constitute 0.31% of the ordinary shares then on issue.)

g Reason for issue Issue of unlisted options under the DIL 2013 Incentive Plan as part of the remuneration package of the CFO, Mr. Carl Blandino.

h Authority for issue Resolution of directors, dated 15 May 2013.

i Terms of issue One quarter of the options will become exercisable on each anniversary of the issue date, subject to shareholder approval of the 2013 Incentive Plan at the 2013 AGM and Mr. Blandino's continued employment. The options have a term of 10 years from the issue date.

j Total number of securities of the class in existence after the issue 260,000

k Treasury stock N/A

l Date of issue 15 May 2013 (EST)

[Monty]

well based on a share price of $7.70 he has made $62,400 already. That is not a bad way to start a new job.

[Xerof]

Yeah but, yeah but,

milford is distributing.....

different stages of the life cycle, both can be right of course

[CJ]

I have just done a quick check with annual revenues to 31 March and (provided I picked up the correct numbers) they are as follows:

Year - 2011 - 2012 - 2013
XRO - 9m - 19m - 39m
DIL - 9m - 23m - 50m
MKTO - US$14m - 32.4m - 58.4 for 2010, 11 and 12.

77% pop on NASDAQ IPO overnight: Google link (https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:MKTO&ntsp=0&ei=mtKWUeC1N8KOlQW6Dw)

From what I can tell, there are now 35,784,149 shares on issue, so a MV of $826m giving a P/R ratio of 14 and that is based on 2012 (calender year?) revenues.

Prospectus for anyone interested: http://investors.marketo.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1047469-13-6257&CIK=1490660

That makes DIL well priced but XRO overvalued. It will be interested to see what multiple Wynyard and SLI list at.

I note Xero won a couple of awards at a tech event last night.

Vend also won a couple of awards making a great week for them having closed a $8m round. Milford Funds got in on the round so I assume the plan is for this to be a pre-IPO round. They have enough cash for a couple of years so hopefully we will see an IPO in 18m or so.

[CJ]

Year - 2011 - 2012 - 2013
XRO - 9m - 19m - 39m
DIL - 9m - 23m - 50m
MKTO - US$14m - 32.4m - 58.4 for 2010, 11 and 12.
DATA - US$34 - 62 - 127 for 2010, 11 and 12. Marginally profitable in each period aswell

So two Cloud based IPOs in the US on Friday, both with a big pop on listing (though only a small amount of new shares issued). Dont have time to find the market value for this one (google is wrong - I think I read $2.5B which would be a P/R of 20). Will be interesting to watch over the next little while as they will be a good indication of how DIL and XRO will go if listed in the US.

Are there any other start up cloud/saas companies that I could add to the research list?

[lastmoa]

Year - 2011 - 2012 - 2013
XRO - 9m - 19m - 39m
DIL - 9m - 23m - 50m
MKTO - US$14m - 32.4m - 58.4 for 2010, 11 and 12.
DATA - US$34 - 62 - 127 for 2010, 11 and 12. Marginally profitable in each period aswell

So two Cloud based IPOs in the US on Friday, both with a big pop on listing (though only a small amount of new shares issued). Dont have time to find the market value for this one (google is wrong - I think I read $2.5B which would be a P/R of 20). Will be interesting to watch over the next little while as they will be a good indication of how DIL and XRO will go if listed in the US.

Are there any other start up cloud/saas companies that I could add to the research list?

Could add ASX:NEA

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Some very big off market trades being made today. Maybe Milford continuing their sell down? Will have to wait for the SSH.

Edit: an off market trade of 700,000 shares was traded but has now been removed. What's up with that?

[tosspot]

Anyone got 215000 shares to sell @ $7.35?

Somebody is keen!
They could single handily take the sp past $8 with that order. if only ay

[winner69]

Woodward & Partners still bullish on XRO but have DIL as SELL .... rerarting target from 509 to 602

Sell based on slowing growth

So says the NBR

[winner69]

but they have done their homework moose .... and people who do their homework are generally right I'm told

[CJ]

I havent read their research but the quote in the NBR article basically says they assume "only modest sales growth" - maybe ythat's where they get things worng as there is nothing to suggest in reality sales growth is "modest" IMOMOdest as in only 100% pa??

DILs Revenues have been growing faster than XRO, without the huge growth in costs.

[Jay]

Let's hope so!
Has not hit my stop... yet for my short form trading

Still well over double for my longer term portfolio

[tosspot]

as soon as I saw the huge order I thought that it might be an executive or large holder simply placing an order to weather this storm over the last few days and the loss for xero. pretty happy seems to be the case

[lastmoa]

Big volumes today. $5mill+
A down market and it's hardly moved - nice to see. Accumulation...

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Big volumes today. $5mill+
A down market and it's hardly moved - nice to see. Accumulation...

Appears to be mostly large orders, similar to what was happening last week. Good to see big fish getting in at this level, although got to hope that the ones selling are just booking their profits and don't know something we don't! ;)

[Banksie]

4546
:t_up: Sellers today :t_up:

rofl - pity you couldn't find a picture with a herd of moose

[Banksie]

Reading through the buyers investment philosophy and process they must see DIL as a good 3-5 year investment.
https://secure.wasatchfunds.com/About-Wasatch/Our-Process.aspx

Would be interesting to know which of their funds the shares were allocated to.

[robbo24]

Running shoes laced up, DIL doing her warm up stretches... :t_up:

I'm going to have a go at an analogy too... The moose is hungry, and going to run up hill to get some SNAKKS

[CJ]

I'm going to have a go at an analogy too... The moose is hungry, and going to run up hill to get some SNAKKSCan we please leave the SNAKK talk to the snakk thread so it is easier to ignore it - the verbal diarrhea is overflowing into some other threads now (DIL and FBU i have noted so far)

[robbo24]

Can we please leave the SNAKK talk to the snakk thread so it is easier to ignore it - the verbal diarrhea is overflowing into some other threads now (DIL and FBU i have noted so far)

Fair call - what I was getting at is that hopefully the price of DIL goes up.

[Monty]

So Diligent close today at $7.69. I think this is $0.01 off their record. Is this the start of a run to kick DIL over $8:00????

[Halebop]

So Diligent close today at $7.69. I think this is $0.01 off their record. Is this the start of a run to kick DIL over $8:00????

Might dip a little in the next day or three but looks like a fairly bullish ascending triangle to me. Would put odds on an upwards break out.

[tosspot]

all the signs are there; macd changing back to upwards slow ma, high rsi and high stochaistic on pretty big volume. will be confirmed upon breaking $7.70 on very large volume with a possible 20-30% run as per the last few times. looking forward to tomorrow!
I personally dont see a break out until either the AGM or the next quarterly results but id happily take being wrong

[Monty]

The AGM is to be in late June (date to be advised) . Rumours that have been circulating including listing on the NASDAQ and increased product range. Diligent have significant cash and growing cash in the bank. In addition the second quarter results will be released shortly thereafter. In the past month or so the shares have up and down between $7.60 and $6.80. But significant volumes have been trading at close to the peak share price. I still see no reason to sell or even take the profilts out despite seeing a 125% increase in price since I purchased last year. Certainly beats 3% at the bank

:D

[Baddarcy]

Pushing the button...

4567

Buy triggers will most likely be triggered at $8. Expecting the last piece to fall into place on the puzzle then: very large volume on the day :)

Looks like that day... might be today.... price at 8.15 at the moment, thou plenty of buyers and sellers.

[Baddarcy]

Seems to me that some people are looking too keen to get stock today......im suspicious (hopeful maybe) that something is up.

[Balance]

Seems to me that some people are looking too keen to get stock today......im suspicious (hopeful maybe) that something is up.

DIL going into MSCI small cap index.

[tosspot]

Wouldn't we all. History teaches us many lessons; just look back at previous breakouts, you'll see what I'm talking about ;)

The 2nd to last thing we were looking for was a good day on the US market - Bingo (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^IXIC)

Now we need 1M+ volume with a big rise.

Update: Seller at $7.70 has fled even before opening bell, leaving the field wide, wide open above the historic high at that level...
probably one of the only times im happy to wrong yeeeehooo. well played

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Wow, 2.9 million shares traded today. If I'm not mistaken, that is the biggest volume in DIL ever (and by far the biggest volume value wise). Probably reasonable to say that a lot of the buying pressure is probably coming from overseas as more people become aware of it. I feel that the next quarterly report is built into the price now (from an intrinsic value point of view), however it could still look like good value if you're a speculator and factor in possible announcements due soon (i.e dividend/share buyback, NASDAQ and new products - although we've been saying that for awhile!).

[Balance]

Wow, 2.9 million shares traded today. If I'm not mistaken, that is the biggest volume in DIL ever (and by far the biggest volume value wise). Probably reasonable to say that a lot of the buying pressure is probably coming from overseas as more people become aware of it. I feel that the next quarterly report is built into the price now (from an intrinsic value point of view), however it could still look like good value if you're a speculator and factor in possible announcements due soon (i.e dividend/share buyback, NASDAQ and new products - although we've been saying that for awhile!).

MSCI index buying.

Always result in volume and higher prices.

Very positive as it mans better appreciation of stock and pressure on the analysts to cover.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Good to see DIL getting a mention in the US stock scene :)

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/wasatch-international-growth-smallcap-fund-new-buys-cm250102

[Jay]

Big down day on Friday for the DOW, what will happen to DIL - a few (hopefully not too many) profit takers I would think and will see the price slide a bit but stay above $8.00????
Could always do a XERO and defy gravity, won't complain.

[Jay]

Yes realised afterwards that our markret is closed on Monday and the DOW will have another day under its belt
Agree on your points STC and the moose

[PlatnuM195]

Looks like Barclays is beginning a deployment of Boardbooks:
http://www.information-age.com/technology/information-management/123457082/barclays-bank-moves-board-reports-onto-ipads

I like the sound of the closing statement:
"It's a premium product, designed for a board-level user and with a high level of service," he says. "What we want for the rest of the organisation is something like Diligent-light."

[PlatnuM195]

I thought the arguments for going with Boardbooks were reasonably clear. They didn't just pick it out of the blue, they trialed over platforms first before going with Diligent. Plus it sounds like there was a decent amount of cooperation, with Diligent catering to their specific needs somewhat in terms of security and functionality.

Trial it first at the board level, once IT has decent infrastructure and support in place then it's a seamless transition to utilizing it throughout the rest of the company. I don't see why Diligent-light would have more or less security issues than Boardbooks now; it would probably just different functionality for different needs.

[Balance]

Anyone got any predictions for where DIL will go this week?

I'm nervous about making bold predictions based on past behaviour, but the buy in by MSCI index tracker funds last week (if thats what it was), plus hedge funds like Wasatch Advisors makes me think that more funds are going to accumulate Diligent. I don't have any research to base this on, but I suspect the American hedge fund manager is capable of paying more for growth like DIL offers, and probably can see longer into the future for SaaS businesses than NZ funds can.

If we touched and closed at $8.20 last week, then a rise to $9.00 may not be an unreasonable expectation.

I have based my intrinsic value of DIL on a growth rate of 50% over the next five years. I think I have slightly underestimated this. I believe DIL will continue to grow at a breakneck pace with a confluence of new markets, unbelievable client retention rate, high margins, plus new applications and product additions (down the line).

This really is a wonderful story for investors. Though I am getting a bit wicky with management holding on to all that cash. Arguably, it may be time for a special dividend or some other declaration of purpose for that money by the DIL board. (and I accept that they may want to hold onto cash to bait potential acquirers, if that's a goal for the board).

Caveats: there are potential threats for this business, the biggest being security. Diligent obviously spend a fortune on making their product as secure as possible, but a security issue would wipe a third off the share price in no time.

Bid side was looking really thin at market close on Friday.

I predict sp will decline back to around $7.50 before support builds up again.

Certainly that has been the pattern for stocks pushed up by index weighting.

[Banksie]

Looking at these two announcements DIL moved from MSCI's Global Micro Cap to Global Small Cap Index.

http://www.msci.com/eqb/gimi/stdindex/MSCI_May13_MicroPublicList.pdf
http://www.msci.com/eqb/gimi/smallcap/MSCI_May13_SCPublicList.pdf

This information was published quite a while ago, 13th May. Any thoughts on if these announcements could be used to anticipate a price shift and position yourself accordingly?

[Edit] Interesting to see the other recent additions to the Small Cap Index - SUM and XRO

[CJ]

[Edit] Interesting to see the other recent additions to the Small Cap Index - SUM and XROCould be a reason why DIL and XRO have been correlelated though that is probably caused by not many people understanding either business model so lumping them together.

Explains SUM big volume spike on Friday.

[lastmoa]

Anyone got any predictions for where DIL will go this week?

I suspect the American hedge fund manager is capable of paying more for growth like DIL offers, and probably can see longer into the future for SaaS businesses than NZ funds can.

I have based my intrinsic value of DIL on a growth rate of 50% over the next five years. I think I have slightly underestimated this. I believe DIL will continue to grow at a breakneck pace with a confluence of new markets, unbelievable client retention rate, high margins, plus new applications and product additions (down the line).

Caveats: there are potential threats for this business, the biggest being security. Diligent obviously spend a fortune on making their product as secure as possible, but a security issue would wipe a third off the share price in no time.

Agree totally with your comments, Sparky. Yes, NZ funds are having troubles understanding tech companies (esp SAAS) which the US has more grasp of. imho.
Yes, in all SAAS companies, security is the archilles heel - I have bought this up with Xero in the past and was satisfied at the procedures they have place and the emphasis they put on this area. Yes, breaches can cause all sorts of problems.
Nice read, the Barclays rollout - this shows a good win in Europe and good kudos to Diligent for a large UK bank go through much evaluation and be satisfied enough to consider what Diligent can do further. This, for me, showed the huge potential Boardbooks (and products in dev) have with these larger institutions, with many arms.

[robbo24]

Does confirm my suspicion that XRO and DIL are linked more now though.

Not linked enough it seems... XRO maintaining its gains, DIL dropping them off...

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Not linked enough it seems... XRO maintaining its gains, DIL dropping them off...

Wouldn't be surprised to see DIL bounce back this afternoon.

[Dej]

attracting more US funds like clowns to a 5 year olds birthday party!

You are being very theatrical today...

But then you always are really :p :t_up:

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Who's heading to the AGM on the 25th? Don't think I'll be able to make it this year, but would be great if someone can report back! I have my fingers crossed that they will finally let us know what their plans are for that big pile of cash they're sitting on.

[lastmoa]

Who's heading to the AGM on the 25th? Don't think I'll be able to make it this year, but would be great if someone can report back! I have my fingers crossed that they will finally let us know what their plans are for that big pile of cash they're sitting on.

I plan on driving up and attending.

[forest]

I plan on driving up and attending.

I am planning to go to the AGM also, will be good to catch up with you Dellow and mayby I will meet Moosie.

[CJ]

Moosie - not a chartist so a few questions:

What is the second indicator show (with the scale of 0 to 100)
Why do you say it is linear when you have three lines showing an increasing growth. Is that because the gradient increase is slowing? If the price keeps going up, the next line could be steeper again (depends how big the next dip is).

[JohnnyTheHorse]

I find the 30 day MA very useful with DIL. Bounces off it (or just above) fairly consistently. It tends to only break it when it has one of its breaks for a couple of months.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Sellers disappeared fast this morning! Although buyer depth still isn't plentiful. Looks like it'll be a good day for DIL and XRO.

[PlatnuM195]

Unrelated to DIL specifically, but got me thinking a little when I read this:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/09/selling-your-enterprise-software-company/

[Blendy]

Who's heading to the AGM on the 25th? Don't think I'll be able to make it this year, but would be great if someone can report back! I have my fingers crossed that they will finally let us know what their plans are for that big pile of cash they're sitting on.

Yes I'd like to go. Would be nice to put some faces to names too.

[Slam dunk]

Nice little commendation for Diligent

Diligent finalist for two US business awards

Diligent Board Member Services (javascript:void(0);) today announced it has been named a finalist in The 2013 American Business Awards. Diligent's customer support team is honored in two categories: "Customer Service Team of the Year" and "Customer Service Department of the Year," and is now eligible to win a Gold, Silver or Bronze Stevie Award.
"We are delighted to be a finalist in two customer service categories of The 2013 American Business Awards," said Jeffrey Hilk (javascript:void(0);), executive vice president and director of client services at Diligent Board Member Services (javascript:void(0);). "Providing excellent customer service is in Diligent's DNA, and is a clear differentiator for us. As we simplify how board materials are produced, delivered and reviewed, we are proud to provide our clients with a level of customer service they can find nowhere else."
Diligent has implemented a "follow the sun" support model with dedicated staff located in three regions - North America, Europe and Asia Pacific - to provide 24/7/365 service and support to its customers, more than 58,000 individual directors, executives and board teams representing 2,800 boards in 32 countries. With its Diligent Boardbooks secure board portal solution, the company is the only board portal provider to answer 100 percent of incoming support calls live, with 98 percent of those calls answered directly by Diligent support engineers who are able to solve the customer's question.
When Superstorm Sandy left 80 percent of the company's US support staff without electricity and 100 percent without transportation, Diligent's global team still answered a remarkable 97 percent of all customer service calls, with support engineers in Europe and New Zealand putting in 13-hour days to cover for their displaced US colleagues. Clients consistently give Diligent high marks and praise for customer service, which is critical to its impressive 97 percent customer retention rate (even including companies that merge or close).
The American Business Awards are the nation's premier business awards program. All organizations operating in the US are eligible to submit nominations - public and private, for-profit and non-profit, large and small. The American Business Awards will be presented at two awards events: the ABA's traditional banquet on Monday, June 17 - in Chicago for the first time, after 10 years in New York; and the new product technology awards event on Monday, September 16 in San Francisco.
Finalists were chosen by more than 140 business professionals nationwide during preliminary judging in April and May. More than 150 members of nine specialized judging committees will determine Stevie Award placements from among the Finalists during final judging May 13 - 24.

[Banksie]

Question is, why is this not being released directly by the company???

Wasn't it put out by Diligent? It sounds like their media release. As this has no material affect on the share price does it warrant an NZX announcement, or would that just be talking up the share price?

[Slam dunk]

Wasn't it put out by Diligent? It sounds like their media release. As this has no material affect on the share price does it warrant an NZX announcement, or would that just be talking up the share price?

Available on their website http://www.boardbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/press_releases_abaawards.html?iframe=true&width=100%&height=100%

Not available on NZX

[Whipmoney]

How do I miss these things when I watch One every day?!?! I must be way too busy not watching the screen these days...

IMHO, Nadine can put coverage on my chart any day ;)

I'm bullish on Dilligent and Nadine too :)

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Would I be right in thinking that the recent drop in the dollar is probably encouraging or will encourage more investment in DIL from the US?

[iceman]

You could look at it that way. The alternative though is that the tide has turned for the NZD and if investors continue to expect the NZD to fall w.r.t the USD then US investors investing in DIL on the NZX (denominated in NZD) are not only carrying the normal risk equities entail but also fighting the headwinds of foriegn exchange.


In saying that those (US based investors) that invested in DIL at the peak of the NZD will have lost about 7% of their investment denominated in USD due to the currency changes BUT would be up about 25%+ in captital gains......

Isn't most of DIL's income in USD so its 6 one way and half a dozen the other. If NZD falls, profits should increase as reported in NZ and US investors pretty much unaffected, unless they are solely focused on short term SP movements.

[iceman]

Yup, you are right, so much of that currency risk may well be negated for that reason. I think though foreign investors still perceive an additional risk with anything denominated in NZD.

Which will soon be fixed with Nasdaq listing :cool:

[Banksie]

Which will soon be fixed with Nasdaq listing :cool:

Wouldn't the NASDAQ listing be more prone to currency fluctuations with sales in US$ but costs in NZD$

[CJ]

EDIT: XRO has indicated a revenue minimum of $100m with respect to a NASDAQ listing, presumably DIL have a number in mind as well?Not necessarily. XRO still wont be profitable at $100m Revenue but DIL already is. DIL could be listed their tomorrow and have sufficient demand.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

From what I can tell, with the latest full year results, DIL can now list on the top tier of the NASDAQ (Global Select). Maybe they have been waiting to list on this, instead of the lower tiers?

Requirements: https://listingcenter.nasdaqomx.com/assets/initialguide.pdf

[CJ]

Which standard are you suggesting they can achieve Global Select on? I am no doubt reading it wrong because my accounting skills are rubbish, but I can't see how they meet the requirements.I think they just squeeze into Standard 1 since:

Sum of last three years are 12.4m 2.2m and 2.1m > 12m
Each of last three year is >0m
Each of last 2 years is > $2.2m which they achieved by $364 (that is dollars, not millions of dollars like the rest of the numbers in this post)

Interestingly XRO has a $100m target as it isn't profitable, needs to get in under standard 3 which requires revenue over $90m and market cap of $850m

Edit: I only had a quick read so may have missed some other criteria.

[CJ]

Thanks CJ - Is the 2.2m last year enough? I was assuming DIL reports in NZD and the NASDAQ requirement was in USD hence why I thought they might not be able to meet standard 1 requirements.
CheersI thought they had just missed out too but the accounts are in USD so they scrap in by just over US$300. primed and ready for the NASDAQ listing ;)

2013 accounts will be a shoe in for listing.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

I thought they had just missed out too but the accounts are in USD so they scrap in by just over US$300. primed and ready for the NASDAQ listing ;)

Is it just a coincidence or not? :p

[CJ]

Is it just a coincidence or not? :pIf you were close to the amount, a little P&L - Balance sheet manipulation with accurals and prepaid revenue etc could easily be done provided you can get it past the auditors. Luckily they are a big 4 accounting firm so no issues there - oops :ohmy:

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Just wondering what the benefits of listing on the Global Select would be over the other two options? My only thought is that it would separate DIL from the long list of small tech startups and give them much more credibility and appeal.

If this is what DIL has been aiming for, then I would expect an announcement within a few months as it only takes 4-6 weeks to be approved for the NASDAQ. That's a reasonably large if though.

[CJ]

Just wondering what the benefits of listing on the Global Select would be over the other two options? My only thought is that it would separate DIL from the long list of small tech startups and give them much more credibility and appeal.
I only looked at criteria for global select and global (were there others). It looked like the difference between the NZX and the NZAX. That is you want to get on the Global Select as it is for bigger companies so you wont get ignored.

[Jay]

Pardon my ignorance but IF they did decide to list on the NASDAQ, would be a dual listing or move only to the US.
Then generally do we get an option to move as well and if not, how do we "smal" shareholders get on with maintianing or indeed selling our stake when and if we wish to once listed on NASDAQ. Would we nominate a broker here to hold on a custody basis and pay the fees associated with this??
I have no intention of buying any other shares in the US in the foreseeable future so would have no need to set a broking account over there even if able

[Monty]

Interesting day at the office with around 300,000 shares trades over 36 transaction - nearly all at $8:12. very little movement in the price for what does seem high volume. I wonder if we are now going to see a flattening of the share price for the next couple of weeks until the AGM on 25 June 2013 and then a week or so later when the second quarter results are issued (around the 9th July 2013 ????)

Then we can also look forward to the Business (Stevie) Awards on 16 September 2013 which may assist somewhat with higher brand recognition and also follow through sales and of course a higher shareprice. (just hopeful). I still cannot see a reason to sell.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Then we can also look forward to the Business (Stevie) Awards on 16 September 2013 which may assist somewhat with higher brand recognition and also follow through sales and of course a higher shareprice. (just hopeful). I still cannot see a reason to sell.

The award winners for the category that DIL are in are being announced on Monday (US time). I doubt it would have an immediate impact on the SP, but like you say it will be very good for the company.

[robbo24]

Slim pickings in the buyer category today...

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Slim pickings in the buyer category today...

Fear not. This has been happening for about a week. Buyers disappear in the morning to try push it down and then come in hard in the afternoon. There are many lurking without their orders in.

[kizame]

Moosie what chart are you looking at,i don't see oversold anywhere on mine,unless you looking at a stochastic.
It's hard to see where it's going from here,maybe a bit of a consolidation and drifting lower for a month or so,is in order.But can't see it moving higher,it has already performed in that area.

[lastmoa]

Moosie what chart are you looking at,i don't see oversold anywhere on mine,unless you looking at a stochastic.
It's hard to see where it's going from here,maybe a bit of a consolidation and drifting lower for a month or so,is in order.But can't see it moving higher,it has already performed in that area.

I see consolidation and who knows where, after the upcoming AGM. Can't see grounds for any negative sentiment.

[Monty]

less than 4000 shares traded over five small trades this morning - seems there are no buyers or sellers. Is everyone taking a wait and see attitude. short of profit taking i cannot understand any reason to sell. On this thread from time to time the clown (I think) does a bit of analysis of what he thinks the share price or value should be. Could the clown possibly update his latest estimate of value of shares?

[Monty]

damn - who is the fool selling a few shares at $7:90. that is most annoying when yesterday the shares could have sold for up to $8:14. here i was hoping the share price would steadily climb back to its high of $8:20 this week

[Dej]

damn - who is the fool selling a few shares at $7:90. that is most annoying when yesterday the shares could have sold for up to $8:14. here i was hoping the share price would steadily climb back to its high of $8:20 this week

Tell me about it, to think that some large off-market transactions have been done at prices higher that this. All noise, just a set back. Wait till the AGM before any decisions are made I feel.

[Roadrunner]

Booked the flights and looking forward to attending my first Diligent AGM despite being a holder for the last three years.Why go this time?Well I think this meeting will potentially start a chain of events that will propel the SP to the sort of numbers Sparky is talking about.I believe there has been a bit of stalling by the company re a new product/add on etc.Knowing how they work they will want it to stand up to any scrutiny before releasing it and the time is nigh....Investor roadshows in the US a while back,US investors filling their boots and one or two interesting appointments makes Nasdaq a distinct possibility for DIL, a New York based company after all.Not to be too greedy but a 15c/share dividend wouldn`t go amiss either!Picking $10/share well before Christmas...this year ;)

[Baddarcy]

Nice...someone/thing bought 1 share for $8.

Takes dipping your toes to a new level :-)

[Baddarcy]

Gives me a chuckle too, so all good :-)

[Cricketfan]

Nice...someone/thing bought 1 share for $8.

Takes dipping your toes to a new level :-)

Hi, sorry for the newbie question, but how do you guys see the details of individual trades?

[Dej]

Hi, sorry for the newbie question, but how do you guys see the details of individual trades?

If trading with ASB or Direct Broking (Same thing really) its under depth, shows (from left to right) available bids, available offers and completed transactions (far right)

Welcome btw :)

[Baddarcy]

Hi, sorry for the newbie question, but how do you guys see the details of individual trades?

There are a few software packages that will tell you, but in my case i just noticed it as it was the first and only trade of the day at that stage.

For a free tool, Findata give you a brief (20 min delayed) history of the last 10 (i think, maybe 20?) trades.

http://www.findata.co.nz/markets/nzx/dil/history.htm

[CJ]

If trading with ASB or Direct Broking (Same thing really) its under depth, shows (from left to right) available bids, available offers and completed transactions (far right)I dont think ASB has the completed transactions only the avaliable offers and bids. DB apparently does though which I assume you use.

[Dej]

I dont think ASB has the completed transactions only the avaliable offers and bids. DB apparently does though which I assume you use.

Sorry, yeah didnt realise that ASB limited what they show you. I know that ANZ is the same as DB though, so just presumed that both banks probably used the same package, obviously not! :p

But yes, DB for me.

[Jay]

This will show you as well - NZ or AUS shares

http://stocknessmonster.com/

[Cricketfan]

This will show you as well - NZ or AUS shares

http://stocknessmonster.com/

Cool, thanks for all the replies.

[Baddarcy]

Feels a bit like we are in a holding pattern at the moment.

Who wants to make a prediction about next weeks AGM?? Are we going to get an announcement on any of our big 3 items?

1) Dividend
2) Nasdaq
3) New product / Expansion pack

[Mobius]

4) None of the above.

[Baddarcy]

Dividend; nope, still growth oriented since Sodi now needs to meet specific targets to have a payday each year.

New product/expansion - Not likely, they JUST hired the R&D team.

NASDAQ- Perhaps...

No doubt all of these will be raised at the AGM.

Unfortunately i think your probably right, i am leaning towards no on all 3 personally. Still nothing wrong with whipping ourselves into a frenzy of unreasonable expectation in the meantime :-)

[5Circle619]

Nice...someone/thing bought 1 share for $8.

Takes dipping your toes to a new level :-)


Nobody offering 1/2 a Xero?

[Roadrunner]

Feels a bit like we are in a holding pattern at the moment.

Who wants to make a prediction about next weeks AGM?? Are we going to get an announcement on any of our big 3 items?

1) Dividend
2) Nasdaq
3) New product / Expansion pack

Hi Baddarcy,well I reckon the new product/add on is favourite, with Nasdaq in a close second place and an outside chance of a divvy.To be honest, I`d be disappointed if none of the above were to happen but to put things in perspective although I dabble in a few other shares none have come close to matching DIL.In my opinion, they are currently the best investment on the NZX.....oh and you can sleep at night and not worry about them,which is always good:sleep:

[Halebop]

Over The Counter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-counter_%28finance%29

[Dej]

It's always surprised me that we never discuss DIL's OTC listing. Has DIL management ever talked about it publicly? Does anyone know anything about it?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DLBDF&ql=0

News to me :mellow:

[TimmyTP]

excuse the ignorance, but what is OTC?

OTC (Over-The-Counter) as a general term refers to any trade that is agreed off-market. It can apply to listed or non-listed instruments; for listed instruments, the trade has to be reported via an exchange (cleverly termed a Trade Report), which would kick off the clearing and settlement process. Often OTC trades for listed instruments are large and facilitated by geezers in fast suits and a phone in each ear.

It looks like "OTC Markets" is commercial venture borrowing that term in its name; an alternative trading venue that specialises in companies that are not listed on exchange.

I noticed that DIL is marked as trading in a "Grey Market"; this appears to be the least transparent and the furthest from any sort of formal listing. From this page on OTC Markets website (http://www.otcmarkets.com/learn/otc-market-tiers):
"Grey MarketThere are no broker-dealers quoting this security. It is not listed, traded or quoted on any U.S. stock exchange or on any of the OTCQX, OTCQB or OTC Pink marketplaces. Trades in grey market stocks are reported by broker-dealers to their Self Regulatory Organization (SRO) and the SRO distributes the trade data to market data vendors and financial websites so investors can track price and volume. Since grey market securities are not traded or quoted on an exchange or inter-dealer quotation system, investor's bids and offers are not collected in a central spot so market transparency is diminished and Best Execution of orders is difficult."

I haven't quite figured out if or how such a 'listing' would find its way back to the NZX. Presumably ownership needs to be transferred somehow; if I had to guess, I would say that an NZX trade report would still be required. Presumably it is important to DIL investors when their stock has been transferred to another party. Would be interested if anyone else knows how this all works, how/when news of such trades would reach NZ 'officially'.

[JohnnyTheHorse]

Diligent won a bronze medal and a gold medal at The American Business Awards. Great recognition.

http://www.stevieawards.com/pubs/awards/403_2662_22383.cfm

[Monty]

Customer Service Department of the Year - All Other Industries
GOLD STEVIE WINNER:
Hyatt Legal Plans, Cleveland, OH: Hyatt Legal Plans' Client Service Center
SILVER STEVIE WINNERS:
CareerBuilder.com, Chicago, IL: CareerBuilder's Next Level Customer Service Team
PrintingForLess.com, Livingston, MT
BRONZE STEVIE WINNERS:
Diligent Board Member Services, New York, NY: Diligent Board Member Services Delivers Five-Star, Concierge-Level Customer Service
The Knowland Group, Washington, DC
Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corporation, Orlando, FL: Marriott Vacations Worldwide Owner Services delivers unforgettable experiences that make vacation dreams come true!
MSA, The Safety Company, Pittsburgh, PA: MSA's Customer Service Center - A Best in Class" Organization!"
Customer Service Team of the Year - Business Services
GOLD STEVIE WINNER:
Diligent Board Member Services, New York, NY: Diligent Board Member Services Delivers Five-Star, Concierge-Level Customer Service
BRONZE STEVIE WINNERS:
IDT911, Scottsdale, AZ: IDentity Theft 911 Fraud Center Team
Sentis Pty Ltd, Aurora, CO: Sentis and Marine Harvest - Valuing our Clients!

[Baddarcy]

When was the last time we made it this far into the day without an on market trade?

[Banksie]

When was the last time we made it this far into the day without an on market trade?

No time to trade today. We are all busy shutting down in anticipation of the shut down.

http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/nation-shuts-down-waiting-for-nation-to-shut-down-due-to-snow/

[iceman]

A good letter on DIL from the Shareholders Association yesterday. They raise several concerns similar to those that have been raised on this forum with regard to problems with auditing, bonus package to Sodi and general compliance issues. They say they have been in discussion with CEO and Chairman and feel satisfied DIL is making good progress in fixing these issue so they are recommending a vote for the relative resolutions.

However they are very critical of the large fees paid to members of the Special Committee investigating previous administrative blunders but accept 2 of the committee's members were not on the Board at the time so only fair they get paid for the extra work. NZSA would however like other Directors forgo the fee rise they are talking about so shareholders are not hit with this double whammy. NZSA recommends voting against the fee increase to Directors at this time.

They also feel that Rick Bettle should step down from his Directorship while he is a subject of court action in relation to Dominion Finance.

I agree with the SA and will be voting accordingly.

I also did note in this letter yesterday that due to the USA domicile, DIL is not subject to normal NZX takeover code rules. Does anyone know what this really means, i.e. how would we be treated if a takeover offer came along ?

[JohnnyTheHorse]

They also feel that Rick Bettle should step down from his Directorship while he is a subject of court action in relation to Dominion Finance.

Aaaaaaaaaaand he's gone!

[lastmoa]

Aaaaaaaaaaand he's gone!

Yep, Bettle is out ....

https://www.nzx.com/companies/DIL/announcements/237619

[iceman]

Yep, Bettle is out ....

https://www.nzx.com/companies/DIL/announcements/237619

Good to see. Of course they should not perform a role of Directors in publicly listed companies while court action is pursued against them as a result of another Directorship !

[goldfish]

Some nice price weakness today, great buying opportunity before the AGM. Will be buying myself some more very soon!

I was thinking the same thing, is it overpriced though to get back in at this level? Maybe just watch it for a bit longer there only three bids for buyers at the mo. hmmm

[iceman]

One cannot escape ones past unfortunately. I think this venture has maybe repaid his sins though. Still, people like to see blood...



I am not sure it is necessarily about seeing blood moosie. I feel it is more about credibility, not least as DIL is coming in for more scrutiny and interest from US investors. Court action against a Director is a bad look but of course he is innocent until proven guilty. Until court case is over, resignation is the correct course of action.

[goldfish]

If you use Direct Broking go to the super charts under Markets tab on the sidebar. Type in DIL and in the pull down menu for indicators select Relative Strength or Stochaistic. On the levels, anything above 70 is overbought, meaning might be overpriced based on the timeframe, and anything under 30 is oversold, meaning might be underpriced based on the timeframe. Here's a little tutorial for ya:

Relative Strength: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/relativestrength.asp

Stochaistic: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stochasticoscillator.asp

I suggest, at a minimum, you get these under your belt, as well as MACD. Good luck!

$7.50 as we speak ;)

Awesome thanks for the info moose

[Everwood]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/diligent-makes-mistake-recognising-revenue-accounts-it-should-have-bd-141757

Diligent admits mistake in revenue accounts

Diligent Board Member Services, which has been forced to deal with a slew of administrative errors, says it recognised sales in its accounts earlier than it should have.


Diligent incorrectly recognised revenue from new customer agreements and upgrades from the beginning of the month in which the contract was entered into rather than pro rata based on the number of days in the month for which the agreement was in effect, as required by US Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, the New York-based company says in a statement.


The error does not affect total revenues earned, the amount or timing of cash received or the company's liquidity or overall cashflow, it says.


The latest error comes after the company, whose software helps directors manage corporate governance information flows, discovered it had been too generous in its bonus scheme to executives, that its auditor did not meet local regulations and that it failed to get approval from shareholders for directors' fees.

Diligent says its new chief financial officer and its accounting firms are analysing its revenue recognition practices to determine whether they meet rules.


It has yet to determine whether the errors are material, requiring restatement of historical accounts.


Shares in Diligent dropped 0.9 percent to $7.90, crimping its gain this year to 46 percent.

[tosspot]

played this well. sold out at $8 a few days ago. just need to free up some cash to jump back in.

[Snow Leopard]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/diligent-makes-mistake-recognising-revenue-accounts-it-should-have-bd-141757

Diligent admits mistake in revenue accounts

Diligent Board Member Services, which has been forced to deal with a slew of administrative errors, says it recognised sales in its accounts earlier than it should have....

Should they be using Xero for their accounts?

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[CJ]

Diligent says its new chief financial officer and its accounting firms are analysing its revenue recognition practices to determine whether they meet rules.

Shares in Diligent dropped 0.9 percent to $7.90, crimping its gain this year to 46 percent.Their auditors should be shot. Every company tries to manipulate revenue recognition; it is the auditrs job to stop this. Ony trust the big four!

Price dropped 40c (7.8 -> 7.4) on turnover of less than 4k shares! lack of buyers in the market.

[pierre]

Oh dear - yet another example of a lack of diligence - or may it's actually too much diligence. Whatever- we really don't need any more examples of poor administration, lack of attention to detail or other slack business practices from Diligent. They really do need to live up to their name.

[Snow Leopard]

...Diligent incorrectly recognised revenue from new customer agreements and upgrades from the beginning of the month in which the contract was entered into rather than pro rata based on the number of days in the month for which the agreement was in effect, as required by US Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, the New York-based company says in a statement....

A rough calculation suggests that this would overstate revenue from new business in the accounting year by about 8%. (I am assuming that new revenue comes on stream in $ terms evenly across the year).

If I am right then the $43,736,243 revenue for FY2012 would be about $2M (5%) less.

PS. I would guess IFRS requires the same recognition of revenue as GAAP.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Snow Leopard]

Makes you wonder what else they have got wrong :scared:

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[CJ]

8% assumes all revenue received on the last day of month but booked on the first. I'd assume even spread so should be 4%.

I've seen much worse and no one was ever the wiser. Only became public due to change in auditor (I assume they have changed. Big 4 firms are very reluctant to have 'their' accounts restated).

If anyone has ever read IFRS, my guess is ever company is doing at least one thing wrong - they aren't the easiest to understand and different accounting firms sometimes have different interpretations.

[Baddarcy]

only going to hasten DIL fleeing to the nasdaq imho.

Given it was the the USA rules that they breached, im not so sure...

As an aside looks like we might be in for a rough ride today!! Dow down 350 points on top of yesterdays 200+ drop.

[Corporate]

Hmm seen this a number of times. Big 4 firm takes over from small fry accounting firm and there is potentially a material misstatement!

[Baddarcy]

Looks like we have some early panickers. Wish I had waited to buy-in at a cheaper price. Ah well, the story hasn't changed, can wait this one out.

Yup agree. This is an accounting issue, they counted their beans a bit early, no effect on cashflow, so given im in for the longish haul, i don't care. Just a bit more egg on the face, embarrassing but that's all.

[Monty]

What the hell. share price has dropped $0.55 this morning. only 14 trades and 18,000 shares traded. is panic setting in? are there a number of contracts lost? This cannot be good news (or maybe it is a good buying opportunity)?

[Monty]

no panic - definitely thinking about buying some more at cheap price. Dont forget there have been buyers just a week or two back at $8:20 or there abouts. This is nothing more than a slight annoyance.

[gonzo56]

It was a gift which I took happily and many more will. Morning panic over, back to the norm it is.
Damn, that was such a good opportunity to make a quick buck. Shame my funds are tied up.

[Snow Leopard]

A rough calculation suggests that this would overstate revenue from new business in the accounting year by about 8%. (I am assuming that new revenue comes on stream in $ terms evenly across the year).

If I am right then the $43,736,243 revenue for FY2012 would be about $2M (5%) less.

PS. I would guess IFRS requires the same recognition of revenue as GAAP.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger


8% assumes all revenue received on the last day of month but booked on the first. I'd assume even spread so should be 4%....

Which part of my statement did you not understand?

Evenly across the year is also evenly across each month.

Last day of the month, each month would overstate new revenue for the year by about 18%.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Balance]

It is arguably a gift.

Watching closely.

Could be a few days of selling still, folks.

International fund managers do not like accounting surprises.

[CJ]

Which part of my statement did you not understand?I understood your statement, just questioned your maths. $44m pa which is 3.6m received in the last month of the year. They are currently booking this on the 1st of that month. If you spread say that the recognition is spread even over the month, my calculations show that 1/2 of that 3.6m should not be recognised in the current year which works out to be 4%.

8% assumes non of the income earned that month is recognised - 8% being 1/12 of income.

I have just reread your quote and you correctly point out that this should only apply to new revenue, not existing revenue. So, in Q4, new sales was $6.3m and upgrades $1.8m = total US$8.1m - divide that by 3 to get new revenue in December = $2.7m. Assume a new contract signed each day for $87k (total of $2.7m), and spread that on a days count suggests that revenue has been overstated by US$1.3m. About 3% of annual revenue.

[Snow Leopard]

I understood your statement, just questioned your maths. $44m pa which is 3.6m received in the last month of the year. They are currently booking this on the 1st of that month. If you spread say that the recognition is spread even over the month, my calculations show that 1/2 of that 3.6m should not be recognised in the current year which works out to be 4%.

8% assumes non of the income earned that month is recognised - 8% being 1/12 of income.

I have just reread your quote and you correctly point out that this should only apply to new revenue, not existing revenue. So, in Q4, new sales was $6.3m and upgrades $1.8m = total US$8.1m - divide that by 3 to get new revenue in December = $2.7m. Assume a new contract signed each day for $87k (total of $2.7m), and spread that on a days count suggests that revenue has been overstated by US$1.3m. About 3% of annual revenue.

Ah-hah! Here is how I (at it's simplest) believe it works:

This issue is not just applicable to new revenue for the last month of the year but for every month of the year.
So the year ends in Dec.

New stuff is Jan is recognised as 12 months revenue instead of 11.5 months (on average)
new stuff in Feb is recognised as 11 months instead of 10.5 etc.

So you end up recognising 78 months of new revenue where you should recognise the equivalent of 72 months, an 8% discrepancy.

New revenue for 2012 was approx ($43M7 - $18M [but these figures are too high!]) $25M7 and 8% of that is $2M ish.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[CJ]

Ah-hah! Here is how I (at it's simplest) believe it works:

This issue is not just applicable to new revenue for the last month of the year but for every month of the year.
So the year ends in Dec.Got ya - agree with 8.33% overstated in relation to new income for the year.

But but but ... If any overstatement in the prior year gets defered, that gets pushed into the current year which offsets the gains. if you assume yoy income was constant, then we would only be interested in one months worth. However, we woudn't be interest in DIL if yoy income was constant so I will accept your 8% of new income is probably closer than my 4%.

[Snow Leopard]

Got ya - agree with 8.33% overstated in relation to new income for the year.

But but but ... If any overstatement in the prior year gets defered, that gets pushed into the current year which offsets the gains. if you assume yoy income was constant, then we would only be interested in one months worth. However, we woudn't be interest in DIL if yoy income was constant so I will accept your 8% of new income is probably closer than my 4%.

Dare I bring this up? OK, I will.

The overstatement actually gets 'deferred' to the end of the agreement/contract/whatever which is not necessarily the current year.

e.g assume a 2 year agreement starting mid Jun.

2012: 5.5 months,
2013: 12 months,
2014: 6.5 months.
and not
2012: 5.5 months,
2013: 12.5 months,
2014: 6 months

Best Wishes as usual
Paper Tiger

[CJ]

The overstatement actually gets 'deferred' to the end of the agreement/contract/whatever which is not necessarily the current year.

e.g assume a 2 year agreement starting mid Jun.

2012: 5.5 months,
2013: 12 months,
2014: 6.5 months.
and not
2012: 5.5 months,
2013: 12.5 months,
2014: 6 months

Best Wishes as usual
Paper TigerI was working on the basis that they only pre-pay one years worth. I dont know enough details but I wouldn't think they would pay for (in your example) the full 2 year contract upfront, only one years worth. However, the implementation (if they charge this) would be upfront and spread over the term of the contract.

I'll ask some questions rather than making my baseless comments then (but only because you have all day):
- what is the average contract length?
- is the full amount paid up front, billed annually, monthly?
- Is there an implementation fee (ie. one off upfront) or is is a per service contact?

[Snow Leopard]

CJ - recognition of revenue for services provided and payment for services provided are completely separate things for the likes of DIL.

If you pay me $240 up front for 2 years tuition starting mid-Jun 2013 then at the end of December 2013 I have::

Income Statement:
Tuition Fees $65.

Balance Sheet:
Assets:
Cash $240
Liabilities:
Customer Advances $175
Net:
$65

or if you have not yet paid me::

Income Statement:
Tuition Fees $65.

Balance Sheet:
Assets:
Trade and other receivables $65
Liabilities:
nil
Net:
$65

[Snow Leopard]

So after being slightly side tracked by related stuff I have finally re-evaluated DIL in light of the recent goings on and have arrived at:

Current Value: $7.442
One year target: $9.20

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Halebop]

I'd put a value of $7.50 now but my 1 year value is more modest the PTs, around $8.40-$8.50 on the assumption of little change in how things are tracking.

On sales/accounting adjustments, very few contracts will be prepaid more than 1 year, so would expect current year net adjustments to be modest, as earned income lost this year will be offset by adjustments from last year. There may even be a possibility that profitability increases on a one off basis if trailing commissions are involved (Because they may have over-paid last year but this year is still in progress so not too late to adjust).

The accounting issue should be a non event but it is a frustration to see it occur!

Overall I see it as evidence of growing pains and not some monumental company killer event. Worth balancing this happening with the fact that they don't have hundreds of staff so are actually making money. But I do think the board need the litany recited at the annual meeting. A little embarrassment is probably the most powerful impetus available.

[Balance]

I'd put a value of $7.50 now but my 1 year value is more modest the PTs, around $8.40-$8.50 on the assumption of little change in how things are tracking.

On sales/accounting adjustments, very few contracts will be prepaid more than 1 year, so would expect current year net adjustments to be modest, as earned income lost this year will be offset by adjustments from last year. There may even be a possibility that profitability increases on a one off basis if trailing commissions are involved (Because they may have over-paid last year but this year is still in progress so not too late to adjust).

The accounting issue should be a non event but it is a frustration to see it occur!

Overall I see it as evidence of growing pains and not some monumental company killer event. Worth balancing this happening with the fact that they don't have hundreds of staff so are actually making money. But I do think the board need the litany recited at the annual meeting. A little embarrassment is probably the most powerful impetus available.

DIL is a high beta stock - goes up and down more and faster than the broader market.

So relax and enjoy the ride - otherwise, get out of the ride!

[Dej]

DIL is a high beta stock - goes up and down more and faster than the broader market.

So relax and enjoy the ride - otherwise, get out of the ride!

At these levels I am thinking of purchasing, but probably sub $7 IMHO.

[Blendy]

Who is going to the AGM on Tuesday? I'll be there.

The shares are in my name, but I was wondering if I'm allowed to bring my partner too - or is it a 'no name on the register, no entry' deal?

[Everwood]

My 12 month target was $14 by 1st July 2014 without Nasdaq listing, but with the recent hiccups and maybe more to come I have put it back to $12. If they do list on the Nasdaq within the next 6 month without much else going wrong, I hope to see at least $16 per share by 1st July next year.

[Snow Leopard]

So a range of $7.44 to $8.13 for the current value, which is a reasonable range.
But $8.50 to $16 in a year is rather diverse.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Baddarcy]

Couldn't resist, picked up a small parcel this morning.

[lastmoa]

Couldn't resist, picked up a small parcel this morning.

Same. Too tempting.

[lastmoa]

Who is going to the AGM on Tuesday? I'll be there.

The shares are in my name, but I was wondering if I'm allowed to bring my partner too - or is it a 'no name on the register, no entry' deal?

Will be at AGM. Plan on getting there earlier (around 10:15) for coffee nearby. Send me priv message if keen.

[Blendy]

Cool - not sure what time I'm getting there yet, probably closer to 11 though. I'll be the lady in the white coat and shiny shoes if anyone wants to say hi!

[ddrone]

Price
Volume
Time
Cond


700
200,000
13:06
SP



Thoughts? Trying to decide whether to jump back in at these levels or wait.

[Dej]

Another 90,000 just passed through. Think we might see an SSH notice posted soon. Looks like some are prepping for tomorrow ;)

Still on her way down it seems

[MAC]

Actually the rate of growth peaked in Q2 2012 at 176% year on year. Q1 2013 was still a healthy 84% year on year.

It may be that a part of this correction is an adjustment from DIL being a growing one product company to being a speculative investment on further product development and/or traders staging a NASDAQ listing.

Having said that 84% growth is hard to beat and I see DIL recovering well coming out of this correction. We may also get some announcement of note along with the half year announcement, not far away in August.

DISC: Holding

[Monty]

I would be very interested and appreciative to those attending the AGM this morning if they could provide updates on any happenings this morning. If you can.

[Blendy]

I would be very interested and appreciative to those attending the AGM this morning if they could provide updates on any happenings this morning. If you can.

news so far: no dividend this year

[Blendy]

US listing: being reviewed. We will be kept informed of any outcomes. No timeline set.

[Baddarcy]

news so far: no dividend this year

I found this interesting, anyone else wondering why a company that is very cashflow positive thinks it needs to sit on $USD40m?

All i can think of is that they are looking at an acquisition?

[Baddarcy]

R&D, new programs. They've recently hired a bunch of new employees.

yeah true they have, but only 16 of them, even if you paid them $USD200k each, that only adds up to $USD3.2m per year....... that isn't going to gobble up all their free cashflow and an additional $USD40m......

[False Profit]

I need DIL to stay at these levels or move a little further South so I can stock up on some more early next month.

[Blendy]

US listing: being reviewed. We will be kept informed of any outcomes. No timeline set.

Follow up: they are looking at ALL listing options

[Blendy]

R&D, new programs. They've recently hired a bunch of new employees.

Answer to new product being developed: "yes" but no further comment at this stage.

[andysh]

Our buyers are starting to come back now. Hope everyone bought their shares below $7 for the next trip up!

Hope you are right, got in at $6.90.

[Baddarcy]

Is Botty back trading again today?

[Baddarcy]

Yup, he's on the downward side. Guarantee that will stop when buyers keep pushing the price up and the good news reaches the seller.

guess the buyer at $7 didn't notice, could have gotten them at $6.96 :-)

Going to keep a cap on prices until he buggers off thou :-(

[Baddarcy]

Comment from NBR

The company has been building a growing pile of cash, adding $US3.1 million in the first three months of the year to its $US33.3 million in cash and equivalents as at December 31. That increasing cash position has fuelled speculation Diligent is ripe for a takeover offer and put pressure on the company to make a return to shareholders.

Mr Liptak says the board will review its capital management policy at the end of the year.

[Blendy]

nice to have met some lovely people from here today!

Things I took away from the meeting:

*No dividend, because the money will be spent on developing a new product (my speculation of how the money will be spent)

*Some sort of international listing looks likely, with a committee set up to explore ALL options (and one shareholder asked if they would close the NZX listing if they listed in the US and the answer was "we will be considering all options")

*New product is clearly in development, and they are very guarded about what it is for commercial sensitivity. The tiny tidbits they mentioned have given me some clues about what sort of diversified product it might be, but I'll wait and see. They really didn't want to spill anything but they seem pretty excited about it.

*CEO is about to buy 1,600,000 shares - seems he's pretty confident about the future :)

[andysh]

Thanks for the update, much appreciated.

[Huskeez]

Looks like our bot seller might have just capitulated and sold out their remaining block at $6.95. See no reason why anyone, especially the funds who will operate on logarithmic, would buy above this level when the seller is willing to commit at that price. Looks like this may be our bottom as there is a buyer who is buying up at a huge rate anything that is put to that level. Smart buying if I ever saw it...

I would have thought smart buying would of been long before $6.95

[Blendy]

Is this on-market buying? If not, who is he buying from off-market? Cheers, that is an awesome vote of confidence, especially at this price level!

I might have been slightly wrong, but these are the details from the voting information (I'm not sure how the price is worked out?):



"To approve, conditional on Proposals 6 and 8 being approved, the issuance to our Chief Executive Officer, Alessandro Sodi, of options to purchase
1,600,000 shares of our common stock with an exercise price per share equal to the U.S. dollar equivalent closing price of our common stock on
the NZSX on the last trading day immediately prior to the grant and the issuance of up to 2,500,000 shares of our common stock on the terms
described in Proposals 7 and 8 as part of his substitute remuneration package (the “CEO Substitute Remuneration”) pursuant to NZSX Rule 7.3.1
(a) (“Proposal 7”)"

[Dej]

Imagine if the bot had to pay flat rate commission per trade like DB holders :scared:

[Dej]

ouch. good thing bots have no concept of money, let alone brokerage rates! I'm surprised they didn't stop teading after the announcement was made and everyone commented on the AGM. must be teading pretty blindly or in a panic...

Was a very weird day of trading to say the least

[Balance]

I understand Mark Waldon was asked to address the meeting before the resolution to ratify his appointment but the Chairman ruled it was inappropriate?

If I was there, I would be asking why.

Typical American arrogance.

[Balance]

I understand Mark Waldon was asked to address the meeting before the resolution to ratify his appointment but the Chairman ruled it was inappropriate?

If I was there, I would be asking why.

Typical American arrogance.

Also, Chairman was very evasive on accounting issue?

[Cricketfan]

So no extra costs of note if they jump to the Nasdaq. But what is left unsaid is there would be cost reductions if they didn't have to report on the NZX. Not to mention the distractions for the management and board in dealing with snarky compliance people on the other side of the world. There would be a number of soft costs associated with that!

Newbie question. What happens to our shares if they list on Nasdaq and withdraw from NZX?

[Balance]

Newbie question. What happens to our shares if they list on Nasdaq and withdraw from NZX?

A number of options :

1. You retain your shares and buy/sell on Nasdaq.

2. Company offers to sell your shares into a bookbuild to Us institutions.

3. Combination of 1 and 2 above.

[Monty]

I was talking about possible NASDAQ listing as opposed to NZX listing to my Brother-in-law who has worked in USA for several years. He advised me that the big advantages would be access to the wide USA Market (tick) and big funds in USA with big pockets (tick), but importantly to sell the product it certainly helps to be able to say "as listed on the NASDAQ" which does sound a whole lot better than saying listed on the NZX - (tick). as a shareholder with a modest holding there is no downside that I can see and the sooner the better.

[lastmoa]

all the more reason why they will leave the NZX; company is not getting the coverage and interest should be. time to move on to the big board as a big company and leave lacklustre NZ behind. sad to say it, but we really aren't up to scratch

"up to scratch' ..... I would add 'up to scratch in the tech arena' In my opinion, the NZ media/funds just don't understand these companies are try to fit the square peg in the round hole.

[Blendy]

The options and reporting issues are a slightly embarrassing sideshow, but pale into the significance when savvy investors realise the import of the new product coming.



I found it quite strange/interesting that many of the shareholder questions were more pestering about how these reporting issues will be fixed so they don't happen again, and less about focusing on the exciting possibilities that the new product brings. (although to be fair they did not want to discuss details about the new product). It seemed to me that there were a lot of deliberate 'please read between the lines' moments.

[lastmoa]

I found it quite strange/interesting that many of the shareholder questions were more pestering about how these reporting issues will be fixed so they don't happen again, and less about focusing on the exciting possibilities that the new product brings. (although to be fair they did not want to discuss details about the new product). It seemed to me that there were a lot of deliberate 'please read between the lines' moments.

I was pleased when one attendee did compliment the board for the progress they have made to date, acknowledging the better position shareholders are in. Was a bit of a bashing at one stage there, not saying that it wasn't deserved to be brought up of course.
Pleased to have kept my questions IT ... nice to meet you Blendy.

[lastmoa]

Nice timing, Diigent, re Bettle : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10892798

[CJ]

My understanding is that Bettle is an honourable man, despite his headaches over sloppy governance at Dominion he would not want to drag the companies he's involved in through unnecessary dramas.He did leave his PowerCo resignation very late. Guilty plea must have been discussed as strategy months ago. Maybe he resigned form all at the same time and internal company politics/procedures resulting in the timing between DIL and PowerCo.

[Banksie]

I must admit I cannot tell from the Herald article if he is honorable or not.

First they say:

Three Dominion Finance directors - including two well-known members of the business community - have pleaded guilty this morning and been convicted of making untrue statements in offer documents.

but in the second paragraph the say:


Dominion Finance and North South Finance directors Rick Bettle and Vance Arkinstall pleaded guilty to five Securities Act charges for signing offer documents that contained untrue statements.

Now if he is guilty of "making untrue statements" does this not imply he knew they were untrue whereas if he is guilty of "signing offer documents that contained untrue statements" he is only guilty of trusting who ever presented the statement.

So which is it?

[CJ]

So which is it?Maybe its a plea bargain - plea guilty for a lower charge.

In the end, you should never sign your name to something unless you have undertaken sufficient steps to ascertain its accuracy.

[tosspot]

so if dil was to list on the nasdaq wouldnt nz shareholders lose money from the exchange rate. because our brokers make transaction at above or below the actual rate, also we would vulnerable to the exchange rate itself. Im guessing the only way around that would be to give up your shares in the bookbuild

[Banksie]

so if dil was to list on the nasdaq wouldnt nz shareholders lose money from the exchange rate. because our brokers make transaction at above or below the actual rate, also we would vulnerable to the exchange rate itself. Im guessing the only way around that would be to give up your shares in the bookbuild

Being a small retail investor using an online broker I cannot see a future for my DIL share holding if they move to the NASDAQ. I will, in fact, be very disappointed that a quality share has been lost to NZ investors. Given the opportunity I would vote against them withdrawing from the NZX

[CJ]

so if dil was to list on the nasdaq wouldnt nz shareholders lose money from the exchange rate. because our brokers make transaction at above or below the actual rate, also we would vulnerable to the exchange rate itself. Im guessing the only way around that would be to give up your shares in the bookbuildAll sales are in US dollars so you are already exposed to forex. I would not consider this a consideration on whether to hold or not.

If it was to be only listed on the NASDAQ, issues you would consider would include:
- future prospects of DIL
- compliance (ie tax considerations, holding costs if you need to use a nominee etc)
- exit costs (ie what is the cost/process when you do decide to exit)

[Blendy]

I was pleased when one attendee did compliment the board for the progress they have made to date, acknowledging the better position shareholders are in. Was a bit of a bashing at one stage there, not saying that it wasn't deserved to be brought up of course.
Pleased to have kept my questions IT ... nice to meet you Blendy.

Yes I wanted to applaud that guy's lovely comments :) And nice to have met you too!

[Cricketfan]

A number of options :

1. You retain your shares and buy/sell on Nasdaq.

2. Company offers to sell your shares into a bookbuild to Us institutions.

3. Combination of 1 and 2 above.

Thanks. Assuming I keep the shares and buy/sell on Nasdaq, will the tax on dividends still be treated as NZ income or a foreign investment? For DIL only that is.

[Banksie]

So you would hold back the company for your own sake? What's wrong with placing a sell/buy order then the night before the Nasdaq opens if you are a long-termer?

It is not so much about the timing of a trade rather the costs involved, and tax implications, of me holding foreign shares at this stage in my investing career. In a few years I might be in a different position. I am sure there are a lot of other small and wannabe investors attracted to the NZX by these type of shares. They allow for a low cost entry to investing in profitable hi-tech companies.

[Banksie]

Fair enough, guess your investment does need to match your style.

If they do withdraw from the NZX I guess my disappointment is not really with DIL, but rather with the situation that makes the move desirable. A win for me would be a dual listing.

[CJ]

Thanks. Assuming I keep the shares and buy/sell on Nasdaq, will the tax on dividends still be treated as NZ income or a foreign investment? For DIL only that is.Tax treatment becomes complicated as FDR might apply. Rather than clog up this thread well before it becomes an issue, search for tax on overseas shares - I am sure there is plenty written on it.

[CJ]

I would instinctively think that Having Mark Weldon as a director on board would mean he would champion a continued NZX listing of some kind, but maybe he doesn't care about that anymore.Given he doesn't even make sure his only disclosures are made to the market, I dont think he is interested in anything but the pay check. Still waiting to see the value in having him there other than the fact he is a big name.

[Xerof]

He was very enthusiastic about getting DIL to list on NZX, in fact it is suggested he spent a few hundie flying to and fro at NZX expense to secure the listing. Of course, when the scandal re the Henry's past was carefully dropped on the market 2 days before listing date, Walden walked away.....wouldn't even stand beside the Directors for the 'after the bell' photos!

now they are to a fair degree 'respectable' and rid of the Henrys, he's back to the trough.

A real charmer.......

[zigzag]

Tax treatment becomes complicated as FDR might apply. Rather than clog up this thread well before it becomes an issue, search for tax on overseas shares - I am sure there is plenty written on it.

Diligent is an American company. i.e. it already is an overseas company, in the same way as GPG. You should already be paying tax on it. (I think?)

[CJ]

Diligent is an American company. i.e. it already is an overseas company, in the same way as GPG. You should already be paying tax on it. (I think?)you maybe right. I'm under the threshold so haven't considered.

If so, nothing changes re tax. Any big holders confirm FDR already applies?

[Xerof]

Sharesight doesn't include DIL in my FIF calcs. I rely on them to get it right.

[Roadrunner]

Good to meet fellow Forum members Dellow and Zig Zag at the AGM :)......Really pleased to hear that a new product is in the pipeline.Understandably Sodi didn`t want to let the cat out of the bag too much for commercial reasons but at least we know that the cat is in there now!Refering to this "within a few months"I noted.....but that could have been a figure of speech admittedly.Personally, I think they will release the new gizzmo and THEN list on Nasdaq but nothing was confirmed or denied and they are keeping their options open.It was good to meet Mssrs. Sodi,Liptak and Weldon personally and first of all thank them for what they have achieved.The impression I got from them was of a careful,methodical and unassuming business style.The contrast with the last XRO AGM that I attended could not have been more stark.....no tasty canapes and fine wines here but a quiet confidence,nonetheless.It has been mentioned on here by Sparky and others that the media coverage of Diligent is woeful and I agree.An observation that was put across by a shareholder and one that I repeated was that despite all the good news stories that DIL has in the form of high profile signs ups(e.g. Air NZ),awards(US Stevies) and brilliant customer feedback we hear precious little of it here.Maybe DIL could learn a little from XRO in this area.Not by overhyping,they don`t need to,but by keeping NZ shareholders abreast of some of the more positive stuff and not just the 'storm in a teacup' cockups that hit the headlines.I was really interested to hear from Sodi about the lengths that the company goes to to ensure the best security and how they are also constantly security audited by their customers too...re-assuring in this day and age.Looking forward to exciting times ahead!

[kizame]

Mr Market doesn't seem to be as overly optimistic as the posters on here lately,hmmn the market was up 76 points and DIL fell a further 5c.So what are you guys missing?

[MAC]

DIL is presently a one product company and that product life cycle peaked in Q2 2012 at 176% year on year growth, I’m anticipating this product life cycle trend to continue and we should see around 60% to 65% year on year growth at quarterly reporting next month.

This level of growth is still fantastic but the SP may have got further ahead of itself by factoring in speculation of a second product cycle and also a potential NASDAQ listing.

It maybe that both these speculative plays do occur, and the AGM reinforced this speculation, but the timing seems to have drawn out somewhat and DIL may see some further SP volatility whilst we all await some firmer news.

I’m prepared to hold and wait but I don’t expect any significant driving news for a few months.

The fundamentals of DIL’s business plan remain sound despite the recent undermining stuff up’s by DIL management. I believe there is long term growth ahead for those with patience.

[Dej]

We also had a bot that played down any rise we could have seen in the past few days, if there was to be one.

[MAC]

There appears to be, with my limited technical focus, a support level and trend line support at $6.70 to $6.80, failing that much stronger support at $6.40, perhaps we will see some consolidation there or about. It would be nice if a TA could kindly offer some advice and exp ?

[Beetle]

What is a bot?

[Halebop]

What is a bot?

Algorithmic trading - a piece of software with pre-defined logic is executing buys and/or sells.

While the recent posts "blame" a Bot, this is unlikely. Supply and demand dictate price. The price fell because there were more sellers than buyers, not because of how they were buying and selling. Actually the "bot" was trying to hold up the price for a large seller.

In this specific case there was/is a big seller but not much visible buying demand. By having a selling algorithm dribble small trades through the seller traps neophyte buyers at a certain price (I sell 50 shares to you, triggering your minimum commission, you are less inclined to move or cancel the balance of your trade. I can keep selling until you are cleared, all without a human involved so very low transaction overhead for the bot seller while improving the likelihood of getting the price they want). It also avoids spooking the whole market with large visible orders. Previously a similar algorithm was being used to buy DIL.

There is a growing perception on the part of algorithmic traders that their own algorithms are being gamed by competitors so they are becoming less efficacious (with a correlated drop in use). Additionally the channel conflict of algorithmic trading in principal and providing an execution service for external customers is creating problem s for brokers. Recently a faulty piece of code in the USA sent one market maker broke (all in a single day) as competitors took advantage of the pattern the faulty code created. Ignore the chat about bots – the broader trend is dictated by the whole market.

[Halebop]

It's never been explained to me how algorithmic trading avoid trade fees? They obviously have a different form of access to the markets thatn the rest of us.

They do. Normally a low fixed or progressively dropping rate based on $ volume. So selling $100,000 worth of shares costs the same irrespective of if it were done in 2000 or 2 trades.

[TimmyTP]

It's never been explained to me how algorithmic trading avoid trade fees? They obviously have a different form of access to the markets thatn the rest of us.
Hi turmeric, I tried to offer some background here (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?5408-Diligent-Boardbooks-IPO&p=401356&viewfull=1#post401356) if you are interested.

[Whipmoney]

Who cares if the price is still suppressed, the market isn't always right (in the short-term at least), so if the stock is down and the story hasn't change (I see that it's improved actually) then we have a good opportunity to buy more. I'd rather it stay down for a few months so I can keep accumulating.

DISC: Holding.

[lastmoa]

Who cares if the price is still suppressed, the market isn't always right (in the short-term at least), so if the stock is down and the story hasn't change (I see that it's improved actually) then we have a good opportunity to buy more. I'd rather it stay down for a few months so I can keep accumulating.

DISC: Holding.

Totally. Yes, the story has not changed and there has been reinforcement from the recent meeting, of some of the speculation. I see no reason whatsoever to sell. Until such time I will keep accumulating at these lower levels.

[lastmoa]

I hold DIL, but I disagree, the story has changed with the advent of the last admin blunder last week. $8 to <$7 is in part a reflection of that. Also we don't know the full extent of that blunder yet as far as I am aware.
Long term.. yes I agree, story is still the same, but some people's horizons are not long term and hence the recent sell off (based on the short term story changing)!

I wish these cock-ups stopped happening! Unnecessarily detracting from DIL's progress!

Fair comment.

[ddrone]

Inching below first quarter peaks, looks like we'll need the second quarter report to turn it around.

[Blendy]

Wow, someone was lucky at $6.30! Well, the buyer was anyway ;)

[Dej]

Here come the buyers again. Gues we shall see if they have staying power soon enough...

I cant see the depth on my end, DBs deciding to have a bad day, but just for me it seems!

[Dej]

Ah I was having trouble this morning, appears they hadn't cleared their logs properly. She's settling in at $6.70 with plenty of buyers lined up below that.

I suppose there is not point in getting caught up in the day to day trading if you are not a TA trader, so doesnt worry me to much. Imagine if you lost your depth moosie :ohmy:

:p

[Dej]

Cheers Turmeric!

[JayRiggs]

BTW, our bot trader is back on the sell side...

There's been a bit of discussion about bot traders in this DIL thread.
I was wondering, how do you know if there's a bot trader about?
I'm looking at the depth and don't notice anything.

[Dej]

There is constant low-volume trades. They are put in just below the lowest ask price and just above the highest bid price in trying to snap up higher buyers before they reach the levels others are offering according to a pre-arranged algorithm. if they are not taken within a pre-set time (say 10 seconds) they automatically sell at the highest buy price then. Apparently the price spike from $6.30-$6.70 triggered that action this afternoon.

Any sign of the price rising and the bot comes back lol would be interesting to see how much they are selling down

[forest]

turmeric, the story has changed with the advent of the last admin blunder last week. $8 to <$7 is in part a reflection of that. Also we don't know the full extent of that blunder yet as far as I am aware.
I wish these cock-ups stopped happening! Quote Turmeric



Tumeric I was at the AGM, I sat between Blendy and Dellow and I agree with the positive remarks both of them made about the AGM. The meeting was positive. Questions about the admin blunders were raised at the AGM and I am happy with the replies we got.

One follow up question however after the admin blunders were raised did not get a proper answer. This bothered me at the meeting and still bothers me now.
The question was something along the line of; is there anything else the shareholders should know of which has not been properly accountend for (with other words, are their any more plunders us share holders should be aware of).

I expected an answer something along the line of; not as far as we are aware of. But instead no straight answer. What bothered me that David Liptak and Alex Sody displayed a body langues that suggested to me there are more unpleasent surprises to come.

I would like to hear from anybody else who attended the AGM how they interperted the lack of a straight answer and the body languages that followed.

[randoman]

I was at the AGM too but had to leave before the follow-up question. My guess would be they are deliberately being coy based on the fact that a new auditor has been appointed. I remember a comment previously in this thread stating they thought Deloitte might pick up on something additional that the previous smaller firm did not.

I quite enjoyed the no hype approach at the AGM, it seemed they weren't trying to agressively big up the company and its prospects, and perhaps had a bit of humility over the recent mis-steps.

[kizame]

I was at the AGM too but had to leave before the follow-up question. My guess would be they are deliberately being coy based on the fact that a new auditor has been appointed. I remember a comment previously in this thread stating they thought Deloitte might pick up on something additional that the previous smaller firm did not.

I quite enjoyed the no hype approach at the AGM, it seemed they weren't trying to agressively big up the company and its prospects, and perhaps had a bit of humility over the recent mis-steps.

Hmmn not over hyping the company as far as I am concerned could also be a bit of a worry too,If you are travelling very well with regard to lifting sales,see great potential with where the company is headed,and supposedly, a maybe ,new product,why wouldn't you push it a bit,it shows confidence.
I tend to think,and I may be wrong,but i think the price coming off,could be foretelling a flattening of sales,or maturing at this stage.
Time will tell. I sold at $8 and am happy i did. I'm not there to be emotional,I'm there purely for the $$$.

[kizame]

Good points Sparky.

[blah]

turmeric, the story has changed with the advent of the last admin blunder last week. $8 to <$7 is in part a reflection of that. Also we don't know the full extent of that blunder yet as far as I am aware.
I wish these cock-ups stopped happening! Quote Turmeric



Tumeric I was at the AGM, I sat between Blendy and Dellow and I agree with the positive remarks both of them made about the AGM. The meeting was positive. Questions about the admin blunders were raised at the AGM and I am happy with the replies we got.

One follow up question however after the admin blunders were raised did not get a proper answer. This bothered me at the meeting and still bothers me now.
The question was something along the line of; is there anything else the shareholders should know of which has not been properly accountend for (with other words, are their any more plunders us share holders should be aware of).

I expected an answer something along the line of; not as far as we are aware of. But instead no straight answer. What bothered me that David Liptak and Alex Sody displayed a body langues that suggested to me there are more unpleasent surprises to come.

I would like to hear from anybody else who attended the AGM how they interperted the lack of a straight answer and the body languages that followed.

I was at the AGM, sitting in the front row (since all the other seats were pretty much full when I arrived). His answer regarding this question was something along the lines of 'read the NZX announcement' - something he had responded to a number of other questions previously. I suppose that is a natural answer since they are probably still working through the revenue recognition issue and rechecking other things. It would probably be prudent not to speak out prematurely over things.

I'm not aware of the body language that you are mentioning, but I made a couple of observations regarding Liptak and Sodi, considering I've never met them before:
-Liptak speaks sllllllllllowwly and somewhat monotonically. I have the impression that the words that comes out of his mouth are carefully thought over and well calculated. Some of his responses to questions he did not answer were very diplomatic
- Sodi I find a better speaker - more energetic. He talks a fair bit more than Liptak. He knows where to draw the lines as to the extent to which he answers his questions though. With the new product question, he only confirmed the new product but didn't elaborate - probably a smart decision not to give out any details.


- random observation: they both say NZX as 'en zee ex'

[forest]

Blah the revenue timing question I agree with you was probably answered as correctly as can be expected sinds more work seemed to be needed to finalize the finer detail, I can except that, things are not always perfect.

After that question a lady pointed out that we have had a number of issues which were disappointing to share holders and ask if there was more disappointing announcements to come. (not her exact words but something to that effect).
The reaction to this question disappointed me greatly and in fact made me sell DIL sinds I am wondering what might still be hidden. Maybe this was an over reaction on my part,time will tell. But the direction of the share price is also not creating confidence.

[Blendy]

I'm not aware of the body language that you are mentioning, but I made a couple of observations regarding Liptak and Sodi, considering I've never met them before:
-Liptak speaks sllllllllllowwly and somewhat monotonically. I have the impression that the words that comes out of his mouth are carefully thought over and well calculated. Some of his responses to questions he did not answer were very diplomatic
- Sodi I find a better speaker - more energetic. He talks a fair bit more than Liptak. He knows where to draw the lines as to the extent to which he answers his questions though. With the new product question, he only confirmed the new product but didn't elaborate - probably a smart decision not to give out any details.



Interesting you mentioned that. I knew nothing about these guys, but I was kind of disappointed with the general boringness of the presentation and how they presented it. They definitely think before they speak, and are extremely diplomatic in their answers, but I guess I was expecting a much more interesting and vibrant and exciting presentation. Maybe public speaking isn't their thing?

I was also surprised at the small number of people there.

[Banksie]

Thanks for the feedback on the AGM guys. As a shareholder who wasn't able to make it, it is great to get this these first-hand reports.

[Balance]

Interesting you mentioned that. I knew nothing about these guys, but I was kind of disappointed with the general boringness of the presentation and how they presented it. They definitely think before they speak, and are extremely diplomatic in their answers, but I guess I was expecting a much more interesting and vibrant and exciting presentation. Maybe public speaking isn't their thing?

I was also surprised at the small number of people there.

I understand this AGM had the largest turnout ever?

3 years ago, about 20 people turned out and there was no media.

This time round, I understand a few journos were there including Radio NZ.

[goldfish]

No trades yet this morning, like a mexican standoff

[Dej]

Fundamentals update:

Total Issue: 83,776,155
Market Capitalisation: $557,111,431 (@665)
Earnings/Share: 13.57 cents
Price/Earnings Ratio: 49.01
NTA/Share: 21.52 cents
Dividend/Share: NZD 0 cents
Dividend Yield: 0%
1-Week Range (Low - High): 630 - 721
4-Week Range: 630 - 820
26-Week Range: 510 - 820
52-Week Range: 350 - 820

From a market cap of $700m to $500m in 4 weeks lol

[CJ]

Depth looking good for holders - picked up a few more yesterday!

EDIT - gap up to 785 was filled for bout 1 minute - now back to 772 and depth no longer looking great ;) Oh well...you got me excited there for a second. I think you meant gap upto 6.85!

[Dej]

By falling like dominoes, you mean "rising" ???

:-)

Resistance falling like dominoes :p

[Huskeez]

Hey everyone , just brought a new laptop with windows 8 and found this , thought it was pretty cool :)


There were other funds on there too but didn't fit in the screen shot ( still trying to figure windows 8 out)

[Dej]

Hey everyone , just brought a new laptop with windows 8 and found this , thought it was pretty cool :)


There were other funds on there too but didn't fit in the screen shot ( still trying to figure windows 8 out)

I suppose that explains the massive sell orders in at the end of the days then!

[Huskeez]

Hi Huskeez!

That is really interesting info. What program is it? Could you also list the other funds when you get a chance.

Thanks so much!
BE.

Here you go BE, its just called finance , and was already on the laptop. If anyone would like to see any other companies screen shot of listed accumulating - Distribution funds let me know I would be happy to post it. Don't know how accurate this is but its pretty cool all the same .

[Banksie]

Here you go BE, its just called finance , and was already on the laptop. If anyone would like to see any other companies screen shot of listed accumulating - Distribution funds let me know I would be happy to post it. Don't know how accurate this is but its pretty cool all the same .
Wow - I have Windows 8 on my desktop and didn't even realise the app was available. Thanks Huskeez.

I see from the footnote that MorningStar is the source of the data.

[MAC]

Here's the source site;

http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-major.html?t=DIL&region=NZL&culture=en-us

[Blendy]

Not much cheaply on the seller side this morning - a couple of thousand at 6.80 and 6.95 then a big jump to 7.25

[Blendy]

next seller 7.25

[Mista_Trix]

next seller 7.25

What software are you using to monitor depth??

[goldfish]

I dont like those automatic trader bots, puts me off. I know they are part of it still cant help feel like that. Depth is on directbroking website.

[Dej]

I dont like those automatic trader bots, puts me off. I know they are part of it still cant help feel like that. Depth is on directbroking website.

Thats one of a good things about NZX is there isnt much interest for bot trading, but because its a company that mainly American run, and the only way people in America can get some of the action is on the NZX, is probably why we are seeing it.

[Blendy]

What software are you using to monitor depth??

Just ASB Securities. Since I posted that, some other sellers have come in cheaper. Cashed up something else today and bought up a little more DIL.

[lastmoa]

Seriously considering switching over to ASB now that I have an account. DB just keep getting bugs and screwing everything up; record is getting worse, not better!

Anyone else having trouble with DB this morning?

Moosie - I use ASB. Haven't had a problem and they have prompt service, if and when required. Plus I like the interface.

[goldfish]

Seriously considering switching over to ASB now that I have an account. DB just keep getting bugs and screwing everything up; record is getting worse, not better!

Anyone else having trouble with DB this morning?

Yes I have had a few issues with DB not displaying the correct info, usually at the end of the day for some reason. At the moment asking no price 1 bid and 0 quantity...Next in que is correct im guessing.

[Dej]

Hi Moosie, I use DB and am not having any of the problems it seems you are. Yup last trade at 12:11 for 1457 shares.

I use ANZs service which is just a skin over DB and its pretty good most of the time. With ASB im pretty sure they can only see the depth from other ASB sellers not full market depth (A friend was telling me, so not to sure)

[goldfish]

Is DB full market depth?

[Dej]

Is DB full market depth?

I always thought so! Take for example last friday with Diligent, no way someone using DB was selling 70,000 shares! lol could be wrong

[goldfish]

I always thought so! Take for example last friday with Diligent, no way someone using DB was selling 70,000 shares! lol could be wrong
Thats a good point, thanks.

[stoploss]

I always thought so! Take for example last friday with Diligent, no way someone using DB was selling 70,000 shares! lol could be wrong

you'd be surprised.

[Dej]

you'd be surprised.

Yeah its just seems if you were trading in that quantity you would be with a broker. I would be. But hey, what do I know ;)

[ronalchn]

Ok, not DB today, the NZX itself is crapping out. This is the kind of schtick that is going to lead to DIL making a hasty retreat to the Nasdaq and leaving our cowboy-led playground behind!

I hope not. That's why I tried to ask whether they would consider leaving the NZX at the AGM. While listing in the US would likely improve the share price and liquidity, delisting from the NZX would increase my trading costs due to foreign exchange. I am against any potential delisting, and I think most NZ investors would feel the same.

[CJ]

Ok, not DB today, the NZX itself is crapping out. This is the kind of schtick that is going to lead to DIL making a hasty retreat to the Nasdaq and leaving our cowboy-led playground behind!

Given NZX now uses Nasdaq's platform (not sure if the same they actually use) that might not help (per NBR article):

The NZX launched the Nasdaq OMX X-stream trading platform last November as it looks to branch out into new securities trading, including derivatives and commodities.

[CJ]

and you are worried about a maybe 5-10% swing in Forex?Plus all sales are in US$ so you are already fully exposed in relation to the revenue line of the P&L!

[ronalchn]

While a listing on NASDAQ could yield gains higher than might be lost from trading costs, it still imposes a burden on trading and tax. I think a cross-listing is the best option. Keeping it in NZ helps to avoid going past the 50k limit for foreign investment tax rules.

[CJ]

Keeping it in NZ helps to avoid going past the 50k limit for foreign investment tax rules.Someone pointed out that as a US company, it doesn't qualify (much like GPG). I am well below the $50k so have never investigated.

Someone must be able to confirm that this company is subject to FDR.

[Blendy]

I use ANZs service which is just a skin over DB and its pretty good most of the time. With ASB im pretty sure they can only see the depth from other ASB sellers not full market depth (A friend was telling me, so not to sure)

Really, that's interesting! I had no idea ASB only shows depth from other ASB sellers. That changes things....

[Dej]

Really, that's interesting! I had no idea ASB only shows depth from other ASB sellers. That changes things....

Do some research, because thats just what I have heard!

[Banksie]

Really, that's interesting! I had no idea ASB only shows depth from other ASB sellers. That changes things....

I am not sure that is true. On MRP listing day I could see huge orders for millions of shares. I doubt they all came from ASB clients.

[Dej]

I am not sure that is true. On MRP listing day I could see huge orders for millions of shares. I doubt they all came from ASB clients.

Yeah like I said I heard it from a friend, I have never personally looked into it!

[Snow Leopard]

Really, that's interesting! I had no idea ASB only shows depth from other ASB sellers. That changes things....

They show the full market depth like every other broker does.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Blendy]

thanks for clearing all that up!

[goldfish]

Not much action today need some good news to start it upwards again.

[goldfish]

Nothing is going to send it upwards until the quarterly in around 2 weeks, or a surprise announcement. The real trading usually doesn't start until just after lunch anyways. Patience is a virtue :)

I dont have patience, I want everything NOW!!! Always been my problem.