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ratkin
18-11-2007, 02:16 PM
What are the forumites views on this company.

Will be attending the information evening at russley golf club on wednesday , would like to have some probing questions ready.

Also is this likely to be a better or worse investment than new zealand windfarms?

rimu
19-11-2007, 08:35 AM
They have quite an innovative product, which could be very good or very bad.

For a company at such an early stage, $3.20 per share seems expensive to me.

Options will be exercised at $3.30 about this time next year, which if I understand things correctly, will stop the sp from going above that until at least then.

But what do i know... :)

Codfish
19-11-2007, 09:49 AM
After a brief look I don’t think the concept is well thought out, there are two problems I can see.

Firstly, there is an assumption of excess wind power at ‘peak-blow’ which can be used to split water (a process that uses a huge amount of electricity). Excess wind power may be a problem in the future but at the moment wind is just a zephyr on the grid.

Secondly, because sun and wind are complementary power sources, solar technologies can potentially do the job better.

A technology that smoothes output towards peak output (without using up electricity) is my pick to succeed when ‘Peak-Blow’ becomes a problem.

It seems overly complicated and based more on wishful thinking than realities. But it was just a five minute glance, I could easily be missing something.

CF

tobo
19-11-2007, 10:54 AM
Codfish - you are talking about WHN, right?

tobo
19-11-2007, 11:39 AM
I've been thinking about WTL for a year or so. (as a LT investment)
Pros:
-any kind of energy is only going to be increasingly supply/demand driven (peak oil etc. vs. Chindians with fridges and air conditioning)
-sustainable energy: moreso especially if global warming affects coal use
-narrow exposure to wind energy only (vs a big utility with some sustainable generation)
-ingenious(?) NZ design
Cons
-NZ technology manufacturer competing internationally with the big boys (Vestas, and lots of others all over the world targetting the same thing). (think Rakon etc)
-quite a punt on a unique design - why have the competitors not gone this way
-so far "selling to themselves" ie relationship with NWF
-restricted to manufacture, rather than exposure to the energy price market.
Price: not been that volatile (through recent tumultuous months) so no obvious bargain day, although recent decline to 3.20 from 3.80 highs

I had thought it better to go for NWF, as they have 40% of WTL(?), therefore gets an investment in both. (And NWF has ranged around 1.10-1.30, curr 1.20 since last fundraising)
- - just my thoughts. DYOR

Codfish
19-11-2007, 12:09 PM
Codfish - you are talking about WHN, right?

Yes, quite right. Sorry guys, I just followed the link without taking time to read the thread properly.

If WTL have come up with a cost effective solution to gusting wind they may be on to a winner. I can't see how to judge that from the armchair but the phrase Torque Limiting Gearbox doesn't conjure up the image of a machine that will run for tens of thousands of hours trouble free.

CF

Raven
19-11-2007, 12:14 PM
I used to be a WTL holder. Sold out at $3.80 for a tidy profit when I heard the news there were problems with the 5 existing turbines. The technology in my mind is good as far as wind generators go with several distinct advantages over other suppliers. I have been keeping an eye on things with the idea of possibly buying back in. There are a few things that have stopped me:

- The current turbines are operating outside there noise warranty (rights prospectus)
- IEC cert still looks a while off (8 months or so suggested in rights prospectus). This is key to me as without this certification it's incredible unlikely that any major purchases will be made.
- US patent on torque limiting gear box runs out in 2011. I don't know much about patent law but I get the feeling WTL needs to get moving if they want to establish a foot hold in the market before this patent expires.

On the plus side WTL has demonstrated their engineering skills on previous problems and I'm pretty confident they'll fix the current issues. I think once IEC cert is acquired WTL could be on the move but I have difficulty picking when that might be and hence what price is right to get back in. I've taken a wait and see stance before putting any money in at the moment.:cool:

ratkin
19-11-2007, 12:38 PM
I had thought it better to go for NWF, as they have 40% of WTL(?), therefore gets an investment in both. (And NWF has ranged around 1.10-1.30, curr 1.20 since last fundraising)
- - just my thoughts. DYOR

That sounds like a good plan , that way an interest in both generation and the technology that provides it

mondograss
19-11-2007, 01:19 PM
Other way around chaps, WTL owns a chunk of NWF.

Raven
19-11-2007, 02:27 PM
NWF does have the protection of a warranty on the WTL turbines. Good for NWF given the relatively unproven tech. Potentially not so good for WTL.

tobo
19-11-2007, 03:09 PM
Other way around chaps, WTL owns a chunk of NWF.

oh yeah, so WTL is the one for the 'diversified' investment.

(And of course it is WTL that carries the exposure to the equipment warrantee.
Again, this just means WTL gives you spread exposure to both the turbine mfg and the wind generation businesses.)

SMan
09-12-2007, 07:10 PM
- US patent on torque limiting gear box runs out in 2011. I don't know much about patent law but I get the feeling WTL needs to get moving if they want to establish a foot hold in the market before this patent expires.
:

Someone posed this question at the AGM and WTL advised they will make ammendments to the patent description which will be sufficiently unique to allow the patent to be extended for a further term.

Their recent capital raising via a rights issue closed fully subscribed which is great news as it shows investor confidence if high. I topped up my holding with some extra rights bought on the market.

News looks positive on all fronts with NWF announcing they have applied for consent to extend their farm by 37 turbines, or almost 40%. This means more $$ for WTL provided they get up to speed with production (target 5 turbines a month). Backlog of orders from NWF is well over 12months worth...

The $$ WTL raised will be used as working capital but mainly for development of a US variant etc.. IMO this company should at least double in value over the next 12-18 months provided they can churn out 5 turbines a month.

Serpie
16-07-2008, 10:55 AM
Interesting lecture last night by Geoff Henderson (CEO of WTL)

He made the shift from fossil fuels to alternative energy sound like a simple exercise. While I'm sure it is not simple it is inevitable.

The snippet from "An Inconvenient Truth" was again sobering (a must watch movie) and his comments regarding the rest of the world's march towards sustainable fuels and afforestation were very interesting.
I thought that the remainder of the world, and especially China, were plowing on with little thought to these issues, but this would not seem to be the case.

While I'm still embracing the nuclear option as the future of power generation, the wind option is exciting, especially here in NZ.

nwood
19-03-2010, 10:05 AM
Looks like someone took the only offer to get their $9.5k out today. 20% SP drop and no buyers in the market

Silverlight
19-03-2010, 10:17 AM
Probably beacuse Windfarms announced a 30m capital rasing this morning its down 10% too.

nwood
19-03-2010, 11:07 AM
Probably beacuse Windfarms announced a 30m capital rasing this morning its down 10% too.

Yea it looks like the survival of both companies is conditional on a successful capital raising.

I've never had any money anywhere near either of these companies but they are interesting to follow.

Harvey Specter
27-11-2013, 03:39 PM
Wow - this company is unloved on this forum.

They have just announced another capital raising and as a slap in the face to their viability, the Superfund invests $55m in another wind turbine developer : http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/b9917a95/nz-super-fund-buys-us-55-mln-stake-in-us-wind-turbine-designer-ogin.html?

That's alot considering Windflow is only worth $2m!

JAYAY
27-11-2013, 09:01 PM
Probably beacuse Windfarms announced a 30m capital rasing this morning its down 10% too.

You mean Windflow Technology has announced the capital raising.

Mista_Trix
28-11-2013, 07:47 AM
You mean Windflow Technology has announced the capital raising.

The quote you're quoting is from 2010 :-S

Harvey Specter
28-11-2013, 08:00 AM
The quote you're quoting is from 2010 :-SAs I said, this company is a bit unloved on this Forum (for obvious reasons that it barks like a dog)

Snow Leopard
06-03-2014, 05:59 PM
A bit of a concern when your software wants to know what is going on with a stock:

5574

and you have to tell it it did drop 40%.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Disc: no WTL

janner
06-03-2014, 06:23 PM
The quote you're quoting is from 2010 :-S

That is probably because so few even know it existed over the past 4 years ..

Mista_Trix
07-03-2014, 08:59 AM
So how many are still holding??
Mine have been whittled back to practically nothing and I missed several opportunities to get out, but my holding is so small anyway that its not really worth the bother. Have been contemplating giving them to that 'Shares for Good' or whatever its called - get that nasty red arrow off my board :-S

Mista_Trix
14-03-2014, 12:21 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9828729/Uncertainty-for-Windflow-Technology

PSE
25-09-2015, 09:53 PM
NWF does have the protection of a warranty on the WTL turbines. Good for NWF given the relatively unproven tech. Potentially not so good for WTL.

Windflow issued their preliminary results on 14 September and say they are in negotiation with NWF on a settlement of their dispute.
It concerns me that the company's gearing ratio is 94%, Shareholders Equity of $1 million is 5.3% of total assets, the company has never made a profit on average a 4 million dollar loss per annum over the last 9 years.
This year the company would have gone in to negative equity but for a write up in the value of assets on the assumption that the grid to the Orkney islands will be upgraded to prevent curtailment, they say there are no new customers, govt. funding in the UK has gone dry, prices in NZ are too low, US sales have fallen through but maybe they can sell some in the pacific.
If the going concern assumption was not taken the company would have substantial negative equity it says, not in the start of the thing but in note 31 to the financial statements.

This company has a liability to NZ Windfarms for component failures under the warranty and the power output dispute. I think WTL should have been wound up many years ago and not permitted to continue to trade themselves so far beyond the point where they could pay their creditors.
The whole thing makes a mockery of NZ listing rules, it's bad enough to lose $40 million shareholders entrusted you with but to keep operating like this is I think beyond the pale.
All the time Geoff has continued to draw a very nice salary for himself thank you very much, and $5,000 commission per turbine.
Business as usual out here in the Wild West.

whatsup
24-03-2017, 11:04 AM
When your auditor resigns that's a big worry !

minimoke
19-09-2017, 11:30 AM
Late with its financial reports. $4.3m unsustainable loss, Christchurch factory now closed. Looks like this is the end. You have to 20 Sept to trade otherwise its suspended on 21st.