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tim23
03-05-2008, 08:24 PM
Anyone own one as a holiday home? I did for 15 years but sold early 2o06 and wondered if right thing to do, am okay with decision now but struggled with the sentiments business of selling.

fish
04-05-2008, 10:52 AM
actually i had a holiday home at algies bay as well -sold it 5 yrs ago and bought a section in kerikeri -2 years ago
Put a caravan on it and have goat,s keeping the vegetation down
Have only stayed in it for about 7 nights in total .
Bought it originally as it was a few acres in a private spot close to water and my son and daughter in law were going to move there plus for retirement-develop an orchard etc before building .
Much prefer the lack of house and garden maintainace -this was a time wasting chore at algies-when i get away i prefer to spend time on the water .
The best holiday home i ever had was a yacht leased to a charter company-no maintainace at all for me !

Arbitrage
05-05-2008, 08:28 AM
The need to own a holiday home is a form of discretionary spending. Therefore prices tend to fluctuate more than long term residential property.
It amazes me how much many holiday homes cost, particularly with the running costs of maintenance, insurance, rates etc, and many of these homes get very little use. Surely it would be better to spend this money on motel accommodation or other short term rentals in holiday locations? Can anyone justify owning a holiday home on a purely financial basis?

ari
05-05-2008, 10:02 AM
Have an original batch at Sandy Bay siting on 1/4acre.....batch worth zero, but the land value is looking pretty good

steve fleming
05-05-2008, 07:57 PM
I would think that NZ would have one of the highest per capita ownership rates of beach houses in the world - a function of both the number of coastal properties available within easy reach of the major cities, and the general prosperity of the country which meant that baches were/are very much accessible to the middle class not just the elite.
Certainly in Australia, that culture of people packing up for 3-4 weeks over Xmas and heading to their beach house does not exist.

The best memories I have of growing up are of endless summers at the family beach house on the Coromandel, they were absolutely just the best times, and experiences I’ll treasure forever.….and similar experiences I hope to provide to my children when the time comes.

It probably is not the best move financially, but then, life would be exceedingly boring if you only did those things that can be justified financially.

AMR
05-05-2008, 11:41 PM
These beach homes...are they quite spartan or will they be comfortable to live in long term with electricity, broadband, plumbing, etc?

Arbitrage
06-05-2008, 07:31 AM
, i believe they suck $6000 to $11,000 a year out of pocket not including any mortgages .;)

Yes, I know of someone with a beach house on the Coromandel peninsula who reckons it costs him $10000 per year in just rates and insurance. Then there is the petrol, and maintenance costs etc. At least they get a lot of use from it but there are others that spend very little time in theirs. Say it costs $20000 per year, that would buy a family of four a decent holiday in Samoa instead.

lakedaemonian
06-05-2008, 01:11 PM
We live full time all year in our little beach house.....that way our bills are bach small(except the rates bill :( ) and we have no vacation property costs.....so we get to have our cake and eat it too....with sand between our toes :)

foodee
06-05-2008, 01:59 PM
Lake.
You lucky fella. Ahhhh the rates.
About 2 years ago our retired friends in Tutukaka
had to sell their beloved batch/house by the water because they couldn't afford the rates.
They were 'gutted' for a wee while, but with 2 mill from the sale....:D

cheers

lakedaemonian
28-05-2008, 01:09 PM
Lake.
You lucky fella. Ahhhh the rates.
About 2 years ago our retired friends in Tutukaka
had to sell their beloved batch/house by the water because they couldn't afford the rates.
They were 'gutted' for a wee while, but with 2 mill from the sale....:D

cheers

How sad for them.......having to spend all their time counting all that money ;)

redzone
28-05-2008, 03:18 PM
bought one at Waihi Beach some ten years ago...sold last summer..went up average $105k a year I had it... better than Telecom...FPH or any of our top ten I would imagine ...will buy another in a year or so...

foodee
28-05-2008, 07:54 PM
bought one at Waihi Beach some ten years ago...sold last summer..went up average $105k a year I had it... better than Telecom...FPH or any of our top ten I would imagine ...will buy another in a year or so...

Redzone
Wow! Getting paid 105k a year to enjoy your 'beach batch'.
It doesn't come much better than that - well done.:)

cheers

ScrappyO
30-05-2008, 09:50 PM
Yes, I know of someone with a beach house on the Coromandel peninsula who reckons it costs him $10000 per year in just rates and insurance. Then there is the petrol, and maintenance costs etc. At least they get a lot of use from it but there are others that spend very little time in theirs. Say it costs $20000 per year, that would buy a family of four a decent holiday in Samoa instead.


Agree..I used to have a beach house on the coromandel peninsula. Sounded great to have a beach house but i perfer to see new places rather then going to the same place all the time. But still it was hard to sell...emotions and all that.... but im glad we did.

fungus pudding
31-05-2008, 07:59 AM
15% of WHANGAMATA residental homes for sale and, and unconditional sales for feb/march/ aprill/ worst in decade....ps source just retired coromandle real estate agent of 23 years. not much better in surrounding towns



You aint seen nothin' yet!

tim23
01-06-2008, 02:47 PM
I think you are right there, the coastal boom will end in tears, glad I am out now!

Hawke
01-06-2008, 03:39 PM
A friend has just finished a new Beach house (very high std) at Omaha and is now selling it.
Its listed below what he was expecting to obtain.....but has not even had 1 offer.
He will struggle to fund the interest costs of 55k per year for long.

Forced/desperate sellers will be very sore as this Real Estate downturn spirals down.

Hawke.

tim23
01-06-2008, 04:23 PM
Yes I reckon they will start to decline as rapidly as they climbed and that was quite spectacular!

Dr_Who
02-06-2008, 08:30 AM
With high oil prices in the future, it will be very expensive to drive to the bach every weekend. Cost over $200 to do a 4-5 hour journey!

I am sure there are some very cheap beach houses for sale right now.

redzone
02-06-2008, 01:52 PM
its like buying stocks....you buy the best...beach front at small popular beaches where there is limited stock....I always look at the sale records...if there has been very low turn over of sales it means the beach is a good investment..but you have to be beach front...when you come to sell there will always be someone waiting to buy in...not like the Mount where there are dozens of beach front properties for sale...and very few buyers...the price will fall...also buy where it is popular with farmers...like western bay of plenty...close to the farm...and man do they have the dosh at present...

tim23
02-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Good theory but beach front in the Wairarapa is a bit slow at present even at the popular beaches.

redzone
02-06-2008, 03:47 PM
population from Taupo north...wouldnt try my luck any further south of BOP ...thats not to say there arent good buys...just not my area ...heard of beach front in Tairua where there are 3 looking to buy but no properties for sale...thats ocean beach...once again very few houses on the beach, but close to the main population of Auckland and Waikato...sure you go one road back and its a disaster...same as the Mount and any other beach...of course the odd on will come up where the owner needs to sell but the buyers will be there...where I did own a beach property, ether side of me 3 each way,the properties were owned by families and had been in the families over 25 years..just dont come on the market...that is the areas you need to be ...if you can get in...

redzone
04-06-2008, 05:01 AM
Malcom dont disagree at all....the only thing that will save NZ property is a large drop in the dollar and large inflow of people

CJ
04-06-2008, 11:10 AM
ps source just retired coromandle real estate agent of 23 years.

Is that just another way to say a RE agent who hasn't sold anything this year? ;)

CJ
04-06-2008, 11:19 AM
These beach homes...are they quite spartan or will they be comfortable to live in long term with electricity, broadband, plumbing, etc?

Modern ones are palacial. My parents is worth more than their own home and it was built on the cheapest section in the development and I am sure people look at it sideways at it as they drive past in their BMW/HSV/Cayenne/other large vehicle.

Not sure about broadband but most have a sky dish (not sure if they have a decoder or they just bring their one from home).

Flat screen TV are also a must for the decerning bach buyer. Someone broke into my parents and were gutted to find the only things of value were a $100 warehouse tv and stereo.

Add to that the boat (essential).

I dont know why people would have a mortgage on a bach. If you cant afford to pay cash, you cant afford it.

redzone
04-06-2008, 04:46 PM
cj...whats your problem...a mortage is one way of leveraging your way into a bach(or anything for that reason)...but its all about timing and location....I borrowed when I bought my bach....the mortgae was a third of the price when I bought..when I sold 10 years later the same mortage was only a 13th of the sale price...If I had waited until I had 100% cash to buy I would have never bought it..would have been chasing the price up...maybe a different story now but thats why I say timing and location is important ...give it two years and the timing will be right again

redzone
04-06-2008, 07:21 PM
malcom like I said before ..the only thing that will save NZ property is a lower dollar bringing home more pounds and more people coming in...under national I believe that will happen...

tim23
04-06-2008, 07:25 PM
Nice try Redzone - I reckon you're dreamin, why would they come home under National?

Bobbyvee
05-06-2008, 07:35 AM
Certainly in Australia, that culture of people packing up for 3-4 weeks over Xmas and heading to their beach house does not exist.
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Must be a Sydney based observation Steve. It is still very common in Victoria / Melbourne to head off to beach house or camp site at Chrismas / January

redzone
05-06-2008, 02:16 PM
tim23...what I said was bring their money home and others coming in.....meaning nzdrs overseas sending money home with a lower exchange rate and others wanting to come to NZ...under National it is more likely that the person we would have coming here would be a reverse of what has been coming here over the last ten years....meaning they would more likely purchase a house as opposed to us suppling them a state house and all the other costs attached.Get my drift...

tim23
06-06-2008, 05:32 PM
Redzone - plenty of ex-pats fuelled the housing market post 9/11 and thats under Labour so your arguement seems a bit flawed, the movement in and out of NZ is nothing new and nothing to do with a Labour or National government

CJ
09-06-2008, 07:51 AM
any expats coming home in next twelve months will only have blood on thier hands property markets in UK-- USA-- GOING DOWN QUICKER THAN THE WARRIORS:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not if they were renting. And with the job market shrinking, they might even becomeing home with a nice redundancy.

lakedaemonian
10-06-2008, 12:39 PM
I have a bit of a story to tell about beach houses.

I'm based in Christchurch and my family and I have a small little beach house that we purchased approx. 5 years ago.

We now have a few ankle-biters about so a bit more room inside and outside would be very useful, if not absolutely essential(according to my incredibly frugal part of my wee brain).

I clinically watch every single piece of property that gets listed and sold in my own and adjacent beachside suburbs. Things have ground to a halt in suburbs that have enjoyed some of the shortest average of "days on the market" for any suburb in the country in the runup of recent years.

A home a couple doors down has been listed by two different agencies and interest has been WEAK. This is a fantastic house, giant section, giant garage, beachfront, and mint...it's not moving.

At auction last week there were 3 bidders.

Bidding started at 300k

One bidding couple, sadly had to drop out at 330k, they were clearly as disappointed as they were short of funds to purchase.

The other fella and I bid until it topped out at 365K...auction halted....behind closed doors he was raised to 400k and bidding proceeded again........going nowhere.

It didn't hit reserve.......the other remaining bidder had first right to negotiate.

I was contacted to see where I stood...and told I would be contacted if the deal falls over

Reserve was 430K and the other bidder couldn't come up with finance and fell over.

Wer're not paying that kind of money in a slowing and now declining market........we'll be going backwards or stagnant for a good few years in my opinion.

Agent asks if I'd like to put in an offer...I think we're going to go in with an offer a good bit lower today.

When we first started looking at this house a quiet figure of just shy of 500k was mentioned....which is reasonable for a large beachfront home in very short commuting distance to NZ's 2nd largest city at the top of the market.

But the market is stroking out in my patch....and the real estate agents look like beaten dogs.

Just my 0.02c

redzone
10-06-2008, 05:29 PM
Malcom there are a lot of wealthy dick heads in the Waikato....Im heading up for the field days....would do you good to meet a few...probably learn something

redzone
10-06-2008, 06:00 PM
sorry....dont know if I would be that brave

lakedaemonian
11-06-2008, 05:29 PM
I WOULD BUY IT IN A FLASH:):) seems a excelent deal if TRUE-BEACH FRONT:):)

beachfront........400k.........offer accepted.....2 days for us to mull it over

I reckon the market keeps dropping or trading sideways for 3 or so more years.....but we think this place is us.....until we get put in the dirt and then the kids can have use of it through the trust........would have preferred buying in another 12-18 months for the bottom(in my opinion), but it matters little in the greater scheme of things...we don't expect any "capital gains" for quite some time......someday this house will be beating off buyers with a big stick again.......probably when our toddlers are at uni :)

Sideshow Bob
11-06-2008, 08:19 PM
beachfront........400k.........offer accepted.....2 days for us to mull it over

I reckon the market keeps dropping or trading sideways for 3 or so more years.....but we think this place is us.....until we get put in the dirt and then the kids can have use of it through the trust........would have preferred buying in another 12-18 months for the bottom(in my opinion), but it matters little in the greater scheme of things...we don't expect any "capital gains" for quite some time......someday this house will be beating off buyers with a big stick again.......probably when our toddlers are at uni :)


Good luck Lakedaemonian, and sounds like you've got the place you want. Can't really treat the home you live in as a true investment, but appears as if you have bought wisely and realistic.

foodee
12-06-2008, 08:00 AM
Lake
Well done. Cap gain only relevant when come time to sell, otherwise it just ratchets up your rates.
Enjoy and be happy.

cheers

fungus pudding
12-06-2008, 05:06 PM
Lake
Well done. Cap gain only relevant when come time to sell, otherwise it just ratchets up your rates.
Enjoy and be happy.

cheers


An increase in value does not mean an increase in rates. Your rates are struck annually by the local authority, and then divied up among ratepayers. Your rates will normally increase only by the % struck. A little more if your valuation is higher than average, and a little less if below the average increase. Even if the quotable value drops, your rates will increase, as long as the whole market has dropped the same %. :(

foodee
12-06-2008, 08:04 PM
An increase in value does not mean an increase in rates. Your rates are struck annually by the local authority, and then divied up among ratepayers. Your rates will normally increase only by the % struck. A little more if your valuation is higher than average, and a little less if below the average increase. Even if the quotable value drops, your rates will increase, as long as the whole market has dropped the same %. :(

FP
The rating system consist of 2 components:-
[a] Use/location - this is calculated as a percentage of the land value from QV.
[b] Service provision (e.g water, refuse collection and so on). These are fixed charges set by the council.

[a] forms the bulk of rates demand and is directly related to land value and use (residential in this discussion). [a] is what I referrd to in my post.

NB I also mentioned rates on pp1 of this thread.

cheers

777
12-06-2008, 09:32 PM
FP
The rating system consist of 2 components:-
[a] Use/location - this is calculated as a percentage of the land value from QV.
[b] Service provision (e.g water, refuse collection and so on). These are fixed charges set by the council.

[a] forms the bulk of rates demand and is directly related to land value and use (residential in this discussion). [a] is what I referrd to in my post.

NB I also mentioned rates on pp1 of this thread.

cheers

What funguspudding is saying though is correct. If everyones property increases in value by the same percentage then rates will stay the same relatively.

George
13-06-2008, 06:24 AM
Our rates in Waitakere are $1486 yr based on a 2004 valuation of
LV 109,000, Value of Improvements 126,000 for a CV of 235,000.
Our new valuation is 315,000 based on an increase in LV to
195,000 while improvements dropped to 120,000.
The current rates for LV is obtained by multiplying by 0.004452 to
get $485 while the annual charge is $628, implying that the LV
is not the bulk of the rates demand.
With the current CV up to 315,000 the new LV charge will be about $868
if they multiply the 195,000 by the same amount.
I can't figure out why they boost the LV while the VOI dropped to 120k -
the council weren't very helpful with that question, and it made no
difference that I had painted the house and generally improved
the whole property.
Any thoughts on what the new rates might be based on the above figures?
George

fungus pudding
13-06-2008, 07:47 AM
FP
The rating system consist of 2 components:-
[a] Use/location - this is calculated as a percentage of the land value from QV.
[b] Service provision (e.g water, refuse collection and so on). These are fixed charges set by the council.

[a] forms the bulk of rates demand and is directly related to land value and use (residential in this discussion). [a] is what I referrd to in my post.

NB I also mentioned rates on pp1 of this thread.

cheers

Thanks. Not all councils use the same formula. e.g. my local council uses improved values rather than just land value, and some use a sort of mix of unimproved and improved. Not all use fixed water charges, but install meters. Refuse collection is not fixed in many areas, but is user paid. e.g I use private rubbish service and pay nothing in my rates, or I can opt for the council's service.

foodee
13-06-2008, 09:00 AM
FP
Agree that different councils use different permutations. Nevertheless a significant component of the rates demand is tagged to the value of the property - therefore any change here will affect the rates.

George
Had a look at my rate document. In Napier the % charge on land value is
.47710 plus UAGC fixed charge. All that comes to just under $1300.
The 'Service' component adds up to $500 in round figure.
It seems that the service charges are higher where you are.

cheers all

fungus pudding
13-06-2008, 02:05 PM
[QUOTE=foodee;206383]FP
Agree that different councils use different permutations. Nevertheless a significant component of the rates demand is tagged to the value of the property - therefore any change here will affect the rates.



Not that easy. Only a change, plus or minus, outside the average change will affect it. For example if all values double exactly, or halve exactly there will not be any effect at all. Increases come about when annual budgets are done and rates are struck. Then increases or decreases relative to the average overall change play a minor role in fine tuning the new amount.

lakedaemonian
16-06-2008, 12:05 PM
lakedamonian-- two day mulling now up---WHATS THE VERDICT--:D:D

We're in!!!! :)

We make settlement in a month

Now to sell our current home!!!! :( We are going to be VERY realistic about pricing our current house...worst case is we get stuck with both, but we live far, far beneath our means so we're not worried...hopefully another young family will get a great deal on our old house.

As far as the "rates debate" goes, our residential rates have risen 35% and our commercial properties have risen 65% on average.....it's good to be the local government :)

tim23
18-07-2008, 07:19 PM
Good story I bet the plenty all over the country but not too many people owing up to that?

lakedaemonian
30-07-2008, 11:19 AM
lakedaemonian i understand you moved in yesterday --- just got details of property(sections) i had at doubtles s bay karikari peninsular in 03-bought for $95000- sold $121000 march 05-- since sold again $145000-- now aparently on market at below 03 price $94000-- beautifull uninterupted ocean views 600 mtrs to sand-sea and many many more for sale similar circumstances--- 4hours from auckland---how the mkt changes

Yup.....we are all moved in and loving it....sorry for the delay in responding...just got back from a mostly work(but a bit of play) trip to Las Vegas....that an entirely whole other story!

The new place is IT for me........I'm not moving again.....ever :)

Extra garage space

Extra bedroom

Extra Storage times 10

Extra Yard/garden times 10

Extra privacy times 10

And we didn't pay much for it.

We're still getting our existing house to market with lots of valuable help from friends in the building/contracting industry, I will update on that as things progress, we still think we'll do well out of it......even taking into account the clear buyers market we are entering at full speed.

Vegas Real Estate..........now there's a CRAZY story

Construction towers for Africa, very little movement day after day, middle aged middle class looking folks standing in front of somewhat quiet construction sites hawking their own personal spec condos to passing foot traffic....I don't know how common it is, but I saw more than just several people doing that.

That place is insane...there's probably more unsold completed-semicompleted real estate in downtown Las Vegas(not even including outer suburbs or exurbs) than in all of NZ.

minimoke
31-07-2008, 03:06 PM
Yup.....we are all moved in and loving it.
Hopefully you’ve got sand bags. Just heard Amberly Beach is being evacuated with the upcoming high tides. Stay dry!

Dr_Who
31-07-2008, 04:28 PM
lakedaemonian i understand you moved in yesterday --- just got details of property(sections) i had at doubtles s bay karikari peninsular in 03-bought for $95000- sold $121000 march 05-- since sold again $145000-- now aparently on market at below 03 price $94000-- beautifull uninterupted ocean views 600 mtrs to sand-sea and many many more for sale similar circumstances--- 4hours from auckland---how the mkt changes


Any good places in that area for around that price?

lakedaemonian
01-08-2008, 11:24 AM
Hopefully you’ve got sand bags. Just heard Amberly Beach is being evacuated with the upcoming high tides. Stay dry!

No need here, fortunately we are well placed.

But one of my staff who went home last night got his Merc stuck in a metre of water on a road above the Waimakariri that must have flooded very quickly before it could be closed to traffic.

He wound up on the roof of his car........

We are now calling him "the U-Boat Commander"........plagarized from the old 80's movie Risky Business :)

Casa del Energia
02-08-2008, 04:25 PM
Any good places in that area for around that price?

Although a little reluctant to let the 'secret' out - try looking at Buller Realestate - search for beach properties in the Waimangaroa to Seddonville area - then note your eyeballs pop out at the low prices - beaches to yourself, sub tropical climate - and local airport down the road - e-z commute.
"Casa del Energia" is 8 acres of native bush and pasture we bought for a bag of peanuts and a brass razoo. It is not on the beach as it wasn't our preference - but there's a whole phalanx of 1-4 acre properties on the beach near Birchfield that were developed just before the crash mid last year in the - $160 price range - will be cheaper now.

Dr_Who
05-08-2008, 02:10 PM
Casa, thanks. Is that a nice area?

clips
05-08-2008, 08:18 PM
have you got webbed feet....

Casa del Energia
28-08-2008, 12:40 PM
Casa, thanks. Is that a nice area?


(Sorry about the delay in reply)

Most people who go there for the first time tend to be astounded at how beautiful the place is.

It has a climate similar to Wellington but no wind. As you travel northwards in Buller, it gets more subtropical and more sea-side. You may have heard about the proposed dam on the Mohikinui river - that is northern Buller - the local town is Seddonville - one pub, half a dozen houses.. Average temperature is about three degrees warmer than Westport - 30K to the south. No frosts in winter.
The main road through the whole area is provinicial highway 67 - two lane hardtop, very well maintained, no potholes and berm kept neatly trimmed all the way to Karemea.
The district used to be in decline and a backwater - but now there is the usual dairy boom and there are holiday homes dotted in quiet corners from Westport to Seddonville. Karemea still tends to be a bit bohemian or hippie populated but that is changing too.
The district is fairly adequately reticulated with mains electricity, although the rural areas between the townships are expensive to hook up to, Townships outside Westport are all on septic tanks but do have potable water reticulation. Free to air television reception is adequate for the whole district but cell phone coverage cuts out about Granity (20k north of westport) (personally, I think that's a benefit).

And contrary to myth - it doesnt rain all the time - RF is 2.2 meters p.a. but has about the same amount of sunshine hours as Wellington. But when it does rain - don't hold your mouth open - you'll drown!