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duncan macgregor
30-05-2008, 08:33 AM
Thats what i did with my lifestyle property which might be of some interest to other potential sellers in this down trending market.
1, Private sale plus general agency for every real estate company in a 50K radius.
2, ended up with nine different real estate companies.
3, selected the agent with the most listings in each company to list it with.
4,advertised it on trademe privately got over 3000 hits for one ph call.
5,sales people three were brilliant two useless and four were gushy HA HA bull sh*tters.
6,Told the lot if they tried to talk down my price without an offer on the table they would be fired.
7,I had a registered valuer value the property for GST reasons who turned out to be useless. I told him he was an utter incompetant his value of the house and curtlidge against the general value of the property was at least $80,000 to low and his $720 fee was way to high.
8, I had one conditional offer at asking price that fell over, then another unconditional offer which i accepted which was exactly the eighty thousand dollars above my micky mouse valuers valuation.
9, I have a long settlement date with them being retiring farmers giving me time to organize my next move.
10, Buying a new B&T house next at the beach, to her indoors specifications.
Buying condition is that my unconditional property sale goes through, with rent paid in advance to the date of sale. The people buying might get hit by a bus which is the reason for that. Buying and selling a property requires you to think up everything that might go wrong and guard against it.
11, My property was on nine agents web sites, was pictured in nine MREINZ shop windows, they are there to be used. I had no signs up unless for open homes which they booked in to do.
Thats how i did it in a falling market got exactly what my expected sell price was, and screwed the building company on the new house. I lived here for fourteen years if i take my sell price deduct the agents fees and divide it by what it cost me to build and set up i get 4.4. A lot of pleasure doing it, a blank canvas turning it into a beautifull picture is a very pleasurable thing to do. Macdunk

Mick100
30-05-2008, 09:54 AM
sounds as though you know what your doing when it comes to realestate Macdunk - Well done - particuary getting 80k above valuation
.

duncan macgregor
30-05-2008, 10:08 AM
sounds as though you know what your doing when it comes to realestate Macdunk - Well done - particuary getting 80k above valuation
. The value of a property MICK is in the eye of the beholder. There is no such thing as an accurate valuation. I had all the agents value the place at listing then write the value they thought on the back of their business card. Would you beleave a variation above the valuers at $134000 down to a $15000 above. Macdunk

lakedaemonian
30-05-2008, 10:11 AM
Thats what i did with my lifestyle property which might be of some interest to other potential sellers in this down trending market.
1, Private sale plus general agency for every real estate company in a 50K radius.
2, ended up with nine different real estate companies.
3, selected the agent with the most listings in each company to list it with.
4,advertised it on trademe privately got over 3000 hits for one ph call.
5,sales people three were brilliant two useless and four were gushy HA HA bull sh*tters.
6,Told the lot if they tried to talk down my price without an offer on the table they would be fired.
7,I had a registered valuer value the property for GST reasons who turned out to be useless. I told him he was an utter incompetant his value of the house and curtlidge against the general value of the property was at least $80,000 to low and his $720 fee was way to high.
8, I had one conditional offer at asking price that fell over, then another unconditional offer which i accepted which was exactly the eighty thousand dollars above my micky mouse valuers valuation.
9, I have a long settlement date with them being retiring farmers giving me time to organize my next move.
10, Buying a new B&T house next at the beach, to her indoors specifications.
Buying condition is that my unconditional property sale goes through, with rent paid in advance to the date of sale. The people buying might get hit by a bus which is the reason for that. Buying and selling a property requires you to think up everything that might go wrong and guard against it.
11, My property was on nine agents web sites, was pictured in nine MREINZ shop windows, they are there to be used. I had no signs up unless for open homes which they booked in to do.
Thats how i did it in a falling market got exactly what my expected sell price was, and screwed the building company on the new house. I lived here for fourteen years if i take my sell price deduct the agents fees and divide it by what it cost me to build and set up i get 4.4. A lot of pleasure doing it, a blank canvas turning it into a beautifull picture is a very pleasurable thing to do. Macdunk

Sounds like a job well done.

I would add that most people who attempt to manage the sale of their property/home(which for most is by far their biggest asset), would fail for the following reasons:

*failure to gain/maintain a clinical/non-emotional approach to the sale of their biggest asset

*market ignorance or irrationally optomistic perspective on property valuation

*ignorance of property purchase/sale process

*lack of listing exclusivity would likely put the property low on the radar of individual agents/agencies, unless priced quite realistically.

The local private sales I've seen attempted(3-4 in our suburb ) have all failed and relisted with agencies......my opinion is that they were all unrealistic on price in a declining market.

The topic of real estate values has come up a lot recently with neighbours......only 1 of the families in our suburb during these conversations has even come close to rationalizing in their minds a downwards trend in market pricing.....they are still thinking 2006-2007 $$$ signs.

As far as "registered valuers" goes........I've seen first hand how they were quite "elastic", to be polite, in putting aggressive valuations on properties for finance during the sellers market.......I would think they would now be under the gun by banks to low-ball valuations from here in a buyers market to allow the absorbtion of any further property price declines so I'm not surprised your valuer lowballed you.

My wife and I are looking at a property up for auction in our suburb next week....been listed for 6 months, price has been irrational thus far, they have bought elsewhere and the market has continued to move against them while they hope for a buyer from 2006/2007, so it smells like financial stress to us, and the auction is being described as definitely selling on the day......so we might be buyers(and possibly sellers) if the price is right.

So your experience may be useful for us moving forward...cheers!

Just my 0.02c

Snapper
30-05-2008, 11:12 AM
We sold last year and have been renting since then but are looking around. As has already been stated the problem with private sellers is that they often have an unrealistic expectation of price and they also haven't had a third party(ie RE agent) offering some price guidance and actively trying to get them to price it for the market. Another issue is that they are often poorly advertised so when the private seller doesn't sell at a particular price they think that its due to lack of coverage which will be rectified when they put it with an agent.

A good thing that might come out of the current market is a squeeze on RE fees which are at a ridiculous level. I saw some stats the other day that there are 16,000 RE agents in NZ with only 50,000 house sales per year. In a falling market these exorbitant RE fees are an impediment to the seller negotiating a lower price. If the market's going up sellers aren't too worried but in a falling market its a different story.

David Hardman
30-05-2008, 11:57 AM
Thats what i did with my lifestyle property which might be of some interest to other potential sellers in this down trending market.
1, Private sale plus general agency for every real estate company in a 50K radius.
2, ended up with nine different real estate companies.
3, selected the agent with the most listings in each company to list it with.
4,advertised it on trademe privately got over 3000 hits for one ph call.
5,sales people three were brilliant two useless and four were gushy HA HA bull sh*tters.
6,Told the lot if they tried to talk down my price without an offer on the table they would be fired.
7,I had a registered valuer value the property for GST reasons who turned out to be useless. I told him he was an utter incompetant his value of the house and curtlidge against the general value of the property was at least $80,000 to low and his $720 fee was way to high.
8, I had one conditional offer at asking price that fell over, then another unconditional offer which i accepted which was exactly the eighty thousand dollars above my micky mouse valuers valuation.
9, I have a long settlement date with them being retiring farmers giving me time to organize my next move.
10, Buying a new B&T house next at the beach, to her indoors specifications.
Buying condition is that my unconditional property sale goes through, with rent paid in advance to the date of sale. The people buying might get hit by a bus which is the reason for that. Buying and selling a property requires you to think up everything that might go wrong and guard against it.
11, My property was on nine agents web sites, was pictured in nine MREINZ shop windows, they are there to be used. I had no signs up unless for open homes which they booked in to do.
Thats how i did it in a falling market got exactly what my expected sell price was, and screwed the building company on the new house. I lived here for fourteen years if i take my sell price deduct the agents fees and divide it by what it cost me to build and set up i get 4.4. A lot of pleasure doing it, a blank canvas turning it into a beautifull picture is a very pleasurable thing to do. Macdunk

Mac

Did the 9 agents ask you for any advertising $$$.. Did you pay any?.. Apart from being in their shop windows and TradeMe what other "advertising" did you have?

My Takapuna rental has been on the market for 4 months.. Dropped asking price 25k.... Had about 6 people through the entire time.. While I'd like to sell, I don't need to, so I'm taking it off the market next week. The current tenants are great and happy to stay on.. Will try again in a few years.

Cost me about 2k in advertising fees!

My folks had their "8 arce hobby farm" up for auction last week. This is quality property 40mins from Auckland city. Not a single bid. Think they spent over 15k on advertising.

Its crap market out there so well done on getting a good result.

duncan macgregor
30-05-2008, 12:16 PM
DAVID, I spent about four hundred dollars myself in advertizing. The agents spent on advertizing open homes mostly other than the cost of the internet. Newspapers and property press was useless compared to the shop window, and internet. People that are buying crossed the road after having coffee at the cafe and spotted it in the shop window.
Remember the agent gets paid a similar ammount to sell a general as they are selling a sole agency. The more agents that see the property the better. I found three out of nine were good thank god i spread it around to include them. You wont know until you see them with a potential buyer if they are any good or not. Macdunk

Dr_Who
30-05-2008, 01:09 PM
The value of a property MICK is in the eye of the beholder. There is no such thing as an accurate valuation. I had all the agents value the place at listing then write the value they thought on the back of their business card. Would you beleave a variation above the valuers at $134000 down to a $15000 above. Macdunk

Congrads MD.

I find alot of registered valuers are totally useless. I recalled a valuer who did a valuation on one of my investment property in a not so good area 20% below the price I purchased it. He didnt take into account the property was right in front of the water. He only took the average of the area and did the valuation. I sold the property 2 years later 100% capital gains.

foodee
30-05-2008, 02:03 PM
MacD
Great effort but than I would not expect anything less from you.

I would be loathe to build for a retired exbuilder!:p

Good luck

cheers

minimoke
30-05-2008, 03:44 PM
My folks had their "8 arce hobby farm" up for auction last week. This is quality property 40mins from Auckland city. Not a single bid. Think they spent over 15k on advertising.
.
Two things instantly reek here. Firstly the Auction and the $15k in fees. Your folks have been well and truly done over.

Auctions are one of the biggest cons around IMHO. They may work for a property where there is going to be a high demand but a “life style” block is hard to flick off in the best of times let alone with high interest rates and rising petrol prices.

What sellers don’t realise is that real estate advertising by agents is all about raising the agency profile - not about getting your house to the target market. Single column ads in the real estate pages will achieve the same thing – if you want to be flash go double column!

Duncans approach is a sure fire way to success. The only things I’d fine tune is flag away the valuer – why waste the money. And have a heart - don’t exploit so many real estate agents – three agents will provide ample opportunity and never sign any sort of agreement with them.

Selling privately is the only way to go – its not hard to get right. But just wait for the vultures to circle if they get a wiff that the seller isn’t going to be up for it!

Steve
30-05-2008, 07:14 PM
Mac

Did the 9 agents ask you for any advertising $$$.. Did you pay any?.. Apart from being in their shop windows and TradeMe what other "advertising" did you have?

My Takapuna rental has been on the market for 4 months.. Dropped asking price 25k.... Had about 6 people through the entire time.. While I'd like to sell, I don't need to, so I'm taking it off the market next week. The current tenants are great and happy to stay on.. Will try again in a few years.

Cost me about 2k in advertising fees!

My folks had their "8 arce hobby farm" up for auction last week. This is quality property 40mins from Auckland city. Not a single bid. Think they spent over 15k on advertising.

Its crap market out there so well done on getting a good result.

Don't you negotiate that the agency covers the advertising cost up in your neck of the woods?

Personally, I have never paid any advertising costs myself...

duncan macgregor
16-06-2008, 12:49 PM
Selling a property and protecting yourself against everything that might go wrong when buying another property is loaded with traps for the unwary.
1, Have a realistick value and stick to it until you consider offers on the table. Get out and about inspecting similar properties to your own, to come up with a realistick price.
2, The best advertizing is the internet, via agents web sites it costs you nothing. The more companies involved the better your exposure to the market. Insist on agents displaying your property in the shop window.
3, All agents are tarred with the same brush, talk your price down for an easy sale, get you to pay for as much advertizing as you are silly enough to do. They will try and con you into holding an auction, even in a market where its hard enough to find one buyer.
4, Select the prominant agent in the company if you dont know go for the one with the most listings.
5, Most agents know nothing about the product they sell, and are only HA HA Bullsh*tters who are taught to only give out indefinate answers. [example] The property is one hectare more or less].
6, Every conditional contract should have an escape clause, that is a must as most conditional contracts are time wasters that end up in the bin.
7, If you have an unconditional contract on your property make sure the deposit covers the agents fees, otherwise you are liable if it all falls over for some reason or other. Yes thats right the agent can sue you for the commission leaving you to sue the buyer for breach of contract.
8, If you buy another property on the strength of selling a property that has gone unconditional, make sure you place the following special condition.
This contract is conditional on the full and final settlement of the purchasers property at blah blah blah on or before the whatever date. If you dont do that you might end up in all sorts of legal battles if your buyer walks under a bus before settlement.
In other words do your homework to get a realistick price. Have your property listed with as many agents as you can. insist its on their website and in their shop window. Only allow one sign up at any time for whoever books in to do open homes. Remember agents want you to advertize them turn the tables get them to advertize your property. Macdunk

ritchie
20-06-2008, 05:02 AM
Vendor not paying for advertising.

So if a real estate agent has 10 vendors who dont pay for the advertising....and the house dosnt sell...due to there being NO BUYERS....then that agent is stuck with a $30,000.00 bill for advertising...due to no fault of there own...just that there were NO BUYERS.

Thats like asking you to build a house MCDUNK....but not paying for the roof..or the gibbing.

And I am not a real estate agent. But yes am very friendly with one...who I might add is drop dead gorgeous. Crikey did I say that out loud.

Hey yes...there are some sharks out there...but there are also some very hard working agents who do work for their Vendors.

And thats my 2 cents worth.

And by the way...Ive heard on several occasions of people private selling and not getting the true value of there house........or being no good at negotiating and loosing out.

duncan macgregor
20-06-2008, 07:28 AM
RICHIE, Why should the vendor pay for advertising when they pay thousands upon thousands of dollars in commission on a sale. Sorry to say but most agents couldnt tell you the value of a property within 10% of its value. In my instance i had one companies agents write the value of my property down on the back of their business card as they were sbout to leave. Seven agents in all with no chance of getting their heads together to make a uniform value. $195000 difference from highest to lowest with the principal in the office being the highest $240000 above the registered valuers valuation which was a crap valuation as it turned out.
I told nine different companies to list it, get it on their web site, stick a photograph in the window, and only stick a sign up advertizing an open home. I had open homes every weekend run by two different companies, advertizing in the paper by six different companies, had one conditional contract that fell over, and one unconditional contract both at full price. The agents are their own worst enemy talking prices down in order to get a quick sale.
My lot were all told, try and talk my price down without an offer on the table dont bother coming back. If i had gone sole agency i might have selected one of the dosey HA HA bullsh*tters who were sniffing flowers with the lady of the house while the guy was running about trying to find the septic tank. Some very good agents but most are completely useless. Macdunk

ritchie
20-06-2008, 12:23 PM
hey I agree...there are some useless estate agents. Alot of agents will up the price so that they get the listing......a bit like you...but you down ramp a share......thats a joke before you fly of the handle.

And some vendors are so nieve that they will take that agent on. Not thinking of the big picture re...whats the agent like...enthusiastic...whats there startegy etc etc.

Hey I am only talking from experience especially with the gal i live with. I can honestly say she works damn hard for the vendor...and why shouldnt she...they are paying as you put it.

And I might add she works hard for it. Oh yeah I did. Yes i agree they may get over paid in some instances, especially when the market is humming.

Geez if you think residential get overpaid...look at some of these farms that are sold.

My partners has had several instances where she has approached people that have had there house on the market as a private sale...fand or some period of time....with her excellant marketing and approach, she has sold it for them for considerably more than what they had it on the market for re the private sale and thats witht he commision considered.

But then typically if theres a good story, theres always a bad. Like any trade/buisness...you get the bad and good.

hey I dont like to see evryone tarred under the same brush.

duncan macgregor
20-06-2008, 01:17 PM
RICHIE, I agree with everything you say and i did say that there were some really good agents. Being in the building game, and having done three courses in selling, two in real estate, just to keep up with the play, selling my own properties, i can talk with some experiance. One third of agents are good one third bad and the others are time wasters.
The REINZ course turns most of them out at a 99.9 pass rate which speaks volumes. Most of the time when i sell a property i have to write out the clauses myself as it is beyond most of them to do it on the car bonnet.
The exams they do teaches them nothing about the product, [Ask your partner]. I would think that you could almost bluff your way through if you could neither read or write. Some even dont ask them if they want to buy the bloody place. The one that sold my last place got full price, told them dont waste my time the place is worth that, stick your name on it if you want it. He did open homes, and advertized it with a general agency listing. Over the years i sold most of my properties in private sales, having the contract written up by the buyers lawyer. That way i know what i want written up in the contract, and the buyer feels protected having their lawyer do it which costs me nothing. My opinion is dont get stuck with a time wasting mug agent, give it to the whole lot in your wider area. You wont know until you see them handle a buyer if they are any good or not. Macdunk

tim23
20-06-2008, 08:31 PM
I bet you also wrote the Bible