PDA

View Full Version : SANford Chart



Pages : [1] 2 3

Phaedrus
11-06-2004, 02:06 PM
For the first time since 2000, SAN has fallen below $4.70.
This stock had found consistent and reliable support at this level many times over the last 3 1/2 years.

http://home.ripway.com/2003-11/39768/927548-SAN001.gif

JAMP
11-06-2004, 02:19 PM
Today is the record date for 9cps dividend too, so it is likely to be lower come Monday.

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
UCM: KCE

kittydashwood
12-06-2004, 10:48 AM
OBV rising.

Phaedrus
12-06-2004, 12:03 PM
Kitty,
I'm not sure what time frame you are looking at when you say the OBV is rising - broadly speaking, it has been more or less level (trendless) all this year. Here is my take on the SAN/OBV relationship :-
http://home.ripway.com/2003-11/39768/SABobv001.gif
You can see that there have never been any "Class A" divergences (When Price and OBV go in opposite directions) inferring that institutions or other big buyers have not been taking any great interest in SAN - buying or selling. Note too that the OBV is still in negative territory. In the absence of any clear divergence or trend, the OBV is not much help to us here, in my opinion.

JAMP
21-06-2004, 05:16 PM
Phaedrus and Kitty, I can't confess to knowing what an OBV is...so perhaps I should be posting into the other Sanford thread (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19284).

Following a recent purchase (16Jun04) at $4-60, I have averaged down my holding in SAN. With the shareprice having broken the previous support level of $4-70, is it your expectation that this will now become a level of resistance?

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
UCM: KCE

Phaedrus
21-06-2004, 06:24 PM
Jamp,
That's correct - a support level, once broken, commonly becomes a new resistance level. Commonly, not invariably.
I have no expectations - all I know is that Sanford is looking weaker now than it has in quite a while. Even if you take the optimistic view that the trading range is continuing, this stock has gone nowhere for over 2 years. During this time many NZ stocks have made significant gains.
So you have just bought - maybe you were feeling lucky, maybe you have picked the bottom to perfection, maybe you know something that others don't, maybe something fundamental has changed, maybe you are a true contrarian. Good luck to you - SAN owes you a drink or two.

Longtack
21-06-2004, 06:42 PM
Lookat all dem double tops (and the subsequent dips) on Phaedrus' first chart! Sheesh.

JAMP
21-06-2004, 07:25 PM
Luckily SAN doesn't really owe me anything - I have only been with them since Apr04.

The one certainty in their industry is that things will change. I do believe that they are well positioned to;

a) roll with the punches when the change is for the worse
and
b) move forwards when the change is for the better

As an aside, if SAN push north of $4-70 will this become a support level again?

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
UCM: KCE

winner69
20-07-2004, 08:36 PM
SAN looking pretty weak at the moment

Overall market doing remarkably well but SAN sinking to leveks not seen since the turn of the century

With little demand at current even the listed low p/e is not attractive

Wonder what is going on?

Phaedrus
21-07-2004, 07:34 AM
Don't know, but whatever it is, it has been going on since mid 2001!
Notice how nicely and accurately the support SAN had at $4.70 became resistance, once this long-term support level was broken.

kittydashwood
21-07-2004, 08:15 AM
New support levels at 4.20? Or is the SP going to keep freefalling after the cuts in the Hoki qouta and future qouta cuts telegraphed by the beehive. The fishing sector is desperately in need of some consolidation and new ideas.
Bring on GPG! [}:)]

JAMP
30-07-2004, 07:55 PM
I don't know how accurate the supposition of a support level at $4-20 for SAN is, but the earlier flagged resistance level of $4-70 has reared its head again.

Pleasing to see that the newly opened Auckland Fish Market has landed at least one of the industry heavyweights (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/businessstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3581162&thesection=business&thesubsection=fishing&thesecondsubsection=general&thetickercode=). Has anyone had an opportunity to look around the market perchance?

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
Unlisted: KCE SUB

winner69
09-09-2004, 10:10 AM
Not many support levels below 400

Uncharted waters now

kura
09-09-2004, 03:33 PM
I purchased 500 at 4.30 not long ago, just to dip my toes in water so to speak, would love them to plummet, (he says sniffing a bargain) May take a while but every dog has its day !

JAMP
09-09-2004, 08:04 PM
My buy finger has well and truly been twitching on this one.

I transferred funds from my bank account on Monday morning (before work) with the intention of buying more SAN on Tuesday. I didn't find out about Access Brokerage being in liquidation until Monday evening (after work) by which time it was too late to cancel the funds transfer.

Right about now I would rather have my funds drifting on the open sea with SAN than freezing in the BNZ vault.

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
Unlisted: BRK

winner69
10-09-2004, 06:29 AM
Pity about the bad timing on your funds transfer Jamp

You are keen about picking the bottom of SAN aren't you ... do you see that much value in them?

Maybe should join the ATR fan club instead

Stock Man
10-09-2004, 06:59 AM
Although there are certain divergences between some volume based oscillators and price, it does not mean that a bottom has been reached. You really have to wait for price action to confirm.

How low is too low....I certainly wouldn't be jumping in just yet!

Jamp - hope things work out for you re Access.

Rgds

JAMP
10-09-2004, 07:01 PM
My first day back in employment too after being unemployed for longer than anticipated. It nearly put a dampener on the day, but not quite.

I will just have to hope that the share price stagnates until such time as my funds are freed up (always the optimist). In nature I am a little contrarian, so at the moment I feel this has me stamped all over it. No guarantees that we have seen the bottom, but as soon as my bait arrives I am happy to sling it on my hook, dangle it over the side and see what happens.

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
Unlisted: BRK

Sideshow Bob
10-09-2004, 07:28 PM
quote: Originally posted by Jamp

My first day back in employment too after being unemployed for longer than anticipated. It nearly put a dampener on the day, but not quite.

Gotta be happy the first day back is a Friday :D


Sideshow

Longtack
10-09-2004, 09:43 PM
Jamp. For me the last buy signal was at the end of July followed by a sell 10 days later with a 2% loss. Sorry about the funds to Access debacle.
I'm with Stockman on this one - not yet.

kittydashwood
11-09-2004, 09:45 AM
The fishing industry seems beseiged at the moment, a lack of skilled workers, a strong dollar, foreign competition for a diminishing resource. With such natural advantages NZ should have two or three world recognised brands listed on the NZX. Add to this the governments lack of traction in sorting out aquaculture regulations and the situattion is not good. What's needed is government guidance, Jim Anderton should stop setting up superboats and superbanks and set about taking away the barriers to creating a fertile environment for a sustainable fishing industry.

As for SAN. This an important month for SAN technically during a time of real weakness in it's shareprice. At 3 year lows and still with considerable selling pressure. There seems to be some historical resistance @ approx 3.50 then I guess the NTA. After that well the reserve bank might have driven another company to the wall. One thing is certain when we get below 4$ SAN will become a takeover target for sure.

winner69
18-09-2004, 06:52 PM
Been up every day since it hit that 400 ..... you been buying Jamp??

rmbbrave
18-09-2004, 07:12 PM
I have been thinking about buying Sanford shares for over 3 years but everything (and I mean everything) I read about the fishing industry from all around the world shows fish stocks of all spieces on the decline . Today I read that English fisherman had a quota of 800,000 tons of sandeels (sound tasty don't they) last year but could only catch 300,000. Are NZ's fish stocks in a similar state or are they sustainably managed? In the last 3 years Sanfords price has fallen (along with world fish stocks). Are Sandford shares really worth buying?

Stock Man
18-09-2004, 07:38 PM
It's quite difficult to tell, as this stock moves quite a bit on very little volume. However, the last week of action doesn't really inspire much confidence imo.

danchop
18-09-2004, 08:06 PM
from what i gather from mates who work on sealord boats they cant catch the quota allowed for hoki this year anyway,and theres definately a major decline in the stocks out there

rmbbrave
19-09-2004, 12:04 AM
Here is most of the article from the BBC online.


UK seabirds' breeding attempts in 2004 have been disastrous, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds says, with industrial fishing largely to blame.
In a report the RSPB says 2004 has been the most catastrophic breeding season on record for seabirds along UK coasts.

It says industrial fishing to supply fish meal and oil is barely sustainable and imperils the whole marine food web.

The RSPB says climate change is making matters worse, with some industrial fish species starving as the seas warm.

Total failure

Industrial fishing catches millions of tonnes of small fish which congregate in dense shoals - species like sandeels, sprats and anchovies - to turn into meal and oil, much of it to feed farmed fish.

The fish caught are a key part of the marine food chain, but the RSPB says we know little about the effects of industrial fishing. But it is worried: "The UK has suffered serious seabird disasters this year already. In Shetland and Orkney, entire colonies of birds failed to produce any young because of severe food shortages.

"On top of that, hundreds of seabirds have been washing ashore having perished at sea. Again, lack of food is thought to be one of the reasons."

The report, Assessment Of The Sustainability Of Industrial Fisheries Producing Fish Meal And Fish Oil, was compiled for the RSPB by Poseidon Aquatic Resource Management Ltd and the University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

It investigated the sustainability of two of the world's largest fisheries, the Peruvian anchovy industry and the North Sea sandeel fishery.

It concluded that industrial fisheries globally are failing to meet crucial criteria for sustainability, with the sandeel fishery deficient on around 60% of the criteria tested.

JAMP
19-09-2004, 07:11 AM
winner69, my funds have not yet been released from the Access Brokerage fiasco. Needless to say I feel like I have missed the boat on this one.

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
Unlisted: BRK

Oracle
19-09-2004, 09:31 AM
JAMP

Missed the boat. You should feel like the guy who missed the Titanic!

I cannot understand why anyone would contemplate investing in an industry that is doomed, unless the world accepts a near zero quota, for sufficient time period. Surely, until that happens you cannot get rich! Refer to above posts.

If you are a trader, you may have brief successes. Refer to your TA!

kura
19-09-2004, 03:10 PM
Basically fish is sustainably managed in NZ, (apart from odd hickup ie Hoki) so in long term this would put SAN in a better position than its international rivals. Main concerns are:
- current profitability (lack thereof) as take out FOREX gains and result is poor
- lack of security of tenure over marine farm assets, while govt bumbles along with proposed rule changes.

rmbbrave
22-09-2004, 06:31 PM
Sanford shares are up 50 cents in 2 weeks and 17 cents today. Today there were two annoucements.

1) The purchase of Suminovich.

2) Investing in China.


1) Sanford finalising purchase of fishing assets of Simunovich

Sanford Limited is in the closing stages of arrangements to purchase most of
the fishing assets of Auckland based fishing company Simunovich Fisheries
Limited.

These assets include fishing and scampi quota, vessels, equipment, workshop
facilities and other operational assets. Operational personnel associated
with these and other assets will be offered ongoing employment in similar
positions within Sanford Limited but some senior positions will be lost.

It is expected that this purchase will be completed and be effective from the
new fishing year commencing on 1 October 2004 and that it will prove highly
complementary to a broad range of Sanford's existing activities.

These include inshore longline and trawl fishing in the northern area for
species such as Snapper and Tarakihi which will further enhance the supply of
product to the newly opened Auckland Fish Market.

The hoki, orange roughy, and other deepwater quota species will be a used by
our existing deepwater ice and freezer trawlers and freezer longliners.

Simunovich's and Sanford's scampi operations will be integrated. From the 1
October 2004 the management of this resource changes from Olympic style
fishing (the disruptive race for fish with all the negative quality, market
volatility and over capitalization issues) into individual transferable quota
fishing where area quotas can be harvested in a much more efficient manner
maximising quality and vessel usage and supplying the market in a more
orderly fashion.

2) Sanford invests in China

Sanford Limited has concluded a 25% investment in a wholly foreign owned
seafood processing company in China.

The company Weihai Dong Won Foods Limited (WDWF), based in Weihai in the
north eastern part of the Shandong province is majority owned by Dong Won
Fisheries Co Limited of Korea but has other Korean shareholders as well. The
Sanford investment is part of an increase in the capital of the company from
US$5m to US$7.2m and coincides with an expansion of WDWF's already extensive
processing facilities.

This investment is part of Sanford's long term strategic goals of securing
the full benefits through a limited seafood supply chain into high value
worldwide seafood customers.

Weihai Dong Won Foods Limited was established in 1998 to meet increased
demand for new seafood products in Japan and elsewhere. The company sources
various seafood raw material products from New Zealand and elsewhere as well
as purchasing seafood locally in Shandong province. It processes that
seafood into more highly valued finished products which is then exported to
various countries around the world.

Sanford's investment will allow it to participate actively in the growth and
development of the business as well as enabling us to offer our customers
more specialized processed seafood products in one of the most competitive
economies in the world.

Sanford's decision to proceed with this investment was further encouraged by
New Zealand's recent recognition of China as a market economy and the
resulting steps towards a New Zealand/China comprehensive free trade
agreement.

Sanford has previously contracted the plant to process products caught in
other areas of the world and has always been impressed with its strong
emphasis on quality and efficiency. We are excited by the opportunities that
this equity investment offers us.

Sanford and Dong Won operate the San Won Limited Coldstorage business in the
port city of Timaru which has a sister city relationship with Weihai. Sanford
also charters three Dong Won fishing vessels in New Zealand.

Dong Won Fisheries Co Limited was established in 1970 and is listed on the
Korean Stock Exchange. For further information see www.dongwonfish.co.kr

Sanford is New Zealand's only publicly listed fishing compan

JAMP
22-09-2004, 07:23 PM
Oracle, with the benefit of hindsight I can "categorically" state that industry rationalisation was always going to happen. This was signalled when they tried to merge with Sealords. To my mind there is more to come, and when it does the cream will rise to the top.

The good news is that the BNZ should be in contact with me within the week to clarify (and release?) my call funds with Access Brokerage. Perhaps a fortnight or so too late to park them where I had intended, but at least they are homeward bound.

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
Unlisted: BRK

Major von Tempsky
22-09-2004, 08:54 PM
So, did the Sanford chart predict today's "breakout"?
And if not what's the point in doing these pointless charts?

Longtack
22-09-2004, 09:19 PM
MVT
When T.A. signals are propitious I react. I don't try to predict and I believe that it's one of the tenets of effective T.A. (just as F.A.'ers who don't understand T.A. are reactive.[:p])

Stock Man
22-09-2004, 09:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by Major von Tempsky

So, did the Sanford chart predict today's "breakout"?
And if not what's the point in doing these pointless charts?


MVT, I will attempt to answer,but only if you promise one thing: you try to be objective[:p].

TA is a tool, exactly like FA, to aid in a decision making process. TA can not predict future prices - neither can FA. I use FA and TA to stack the odds in my favour when trying to make a profit.

I mentioned on the 18/9/04 that SAN can move quite a lot on very little volume. There certain indicator signs, but nothing compelling to make me want to rush in. SAN is a stock I have no interest in.

Anyway, tell me, did your statement of financial performance, el nino weather patterns and cash flows predict todays 'breakout'? [?]

Stock Man
23-09-2004, 12:23 PM
MVT - Why have you gone all quiet[?] If you are going to make haughty comments, and someone takes the time to respond, I would have thought that even you would have the decency to reply.

I obviously gave you more credibility than you deserve. :(

duncan macgregor
23-09-2004, 01:33 PM
MAJOR VON TEMPSKY, You said [did the charts predict todays rise in the share price]. The charts will never predict a rise like this happening, but fundamental inside information will. We live in a crooked world, the charts showed that something untoward was happening,and it did. FA at a distance would never spot it, unless you were close to the operation but TA did. Two announcements with the market reaction in advance,or to put it bluntly insider trading. Perhaps MAJOR you might see past the tea leaves off chartists. The herd starts to gallop before most of us hear the shot. When it comes down to straight out inside trading watch the charts. MACDUNK
DISCL 60pcFA 40pcTa is what i do.

Lawso
23-09-2004, 02:00 PM
I have no interest in SAN so didn't notice any price rise ahead of the announcements. So, MacDunk and others, if you did notice something fishy (sorry, pun not intended) why haven't you raised the matter with NZX? A simple phone call or email will at least prompt some sort of response. I've done this a couple of times over things that bothered or puzzled me and each time I've received a prompt and courteous reply. It all helps to keep them on their toes, IMO.

Leai_Se_Tupe
23-09-2004, 02:18 PM
MVT,

TA thinking disguised as FA : If a company has bad managers and doesn't make money, it is likelyto go bust. (You could illustrate this on a chart if you wanted to - management quality versus earnings or whatever - would it then be mysterious and require tea leaves for proper interpretation?)
TA (one example): If a share price has fallen to a certain value but no further many times in the past it is likely to fall no further this time. If it does fall further this time (ie. breaks support)it is very likely to keep falling.
Not a difficult concept to grasp really. This was Phaedrus' point in his original post for this thread.

duncan macgregor
23-09-2004, 02:20 PM
LAWSO, Knowing we live in a stupid corrupt world suits me. I understand what happens and use it to my advantage. When a chart starts to react in an odd way i think wait for me and climb aboard. Incidentely i have a son in law that works for one of the companies mentioned and was informed a couple of weeks ago about likely outcome. When its all over the price will continue to drop. DISCLOSURE NIL SHARES HELD macdunk

Sideshow Bob
08-11-2004, 08:33 PM
Monday 8 November 2:16 PM


NZ's Sanford f'casts yr profit to rise 12-14 pct



WELLINGTON, Nov 8 (Reuters) - New Zealand fishing company Sanford Ltd. (NZSE: SAN) said on Monday it expected annual profit to rise up to 14 percent, despite a flat first half result.

"With the inclusion of contributions from asset sales, foreign exchange hedging gains and reasonable trading results in the second half of the year, it is expected that the final result will be approximately 12-14 percent ahead of the result for the 13-month period last year," the company said in a statement.

The company posted a net profit of NZ$47.3 million last year and a flat first half profit of NZ$23.7 million, as large foreign exchange gains helped to offset lower export sales.

Sanford, New Zealand's only publicly listed fishing company, would release its annual result after the market closes on Nov. 25.

Shares in Sanford, which changed its balance date last year, last traded up five cents at NZ$4.40.

In October, Sanford said it would pay NZ$137 million to purchase assets of privately owned Simunovich Fisheries.

kura
09-11-2004, 06:21 PM
What they don't say is: "Take out profit on asset sales and FOREX hedging, and we had a really awful year" suppose we just have to wait to see full extent on 25 November.

JAMP
13-11-2004, 11:48 AM
The market has responded positively to the announcements of late in the short-term.

I will be watching with interest how things stack up following the profit announcement post-market closure on the 24th. Will the recent share-price gains hold or will we see the stock sold off again?

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
Unlisted: BRK

Phaedrus
13-11-2004, 12:35 PM
This chart update provides a picture-perfect textbook illustration of Support, when broken, becoming Resistance. The reversals that you see here are accurate right to the cent, even though they have been spread over 4 years. The market has a long memory.
Note that the big rise on Friday carried SAN above the crucial $4.70 resistance level.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v418/789456/SAN001.gif

duncan macgregor
13-11-2004, 04:46 PM
Jamp, Only my opinion might be wrong but i know a little bit about the industry. In the short term profit will increase because of the scampi fishery recently purchased hense the rise in share price. The long term it is a different story. Over fishing reduced catches long term i think the outlook is not to good. The scampi fishery at the moment is a money makeing machine the other part is on decline. macdunk

Mick100
14-11-2004, 11:21 AM
I agree Macdunk
I'v worked in the fishing industry for a few years and i can assure people that this industry is in serious decline - To put it simply, there's not enough fish out there to catch.

Rising fuel prices is just another nail in the coffin of the fishing industry.


Mick

JAMP
14-11-2004, 06:29 PM
It must be the contrarian within I guess. There are a few storm clouds brewing, but somehow I don't believe that we have all the necessary components for a "perfect storm".

Supply issues are not going to go away, so there is no point in the industry burying their head in the recently dredged sand and thinking they will. I guess that leaves the other side of the equation, demand. Do we see a shift to the next best product (essentially leaving S&D curve unchanged), or do we see a new supply curve with equilibrium moving up the demand curve?

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX WRI
Unlisted: BRK

winner69
28-11-2007, 06:07 PM
Must be another thread somewhere for SAN but this is the only one when searching

However announced result late afternoon, headlines -

Group profit declined from $26.1m last year to $19.7m this year; however, the
profit decline would have been substantially greater had we not earned a
capital gain of $7.6m from the sale of our investment in Argentina and a
$2.2m gain on the reversal of our 2005 write down of our Canadian investment
in Fishery Products International Limited (FPI). The underlying result from
the main business activities was impacted by the continuing high New Zealand
dollar exchange rate and rising fuel prices.

Doesn't look too bad until you see the impact of the capital gains - which sort of says that the profit this year would have only been $9M odd without y=them

Nearly $400M of sales and stuff all profit must be frustrating for all .... all that hard work in smelly working conditions (at least for the workers) for not much profit but at least shareholders get 13 cents a share .... just as well as the capital gains eh

Highlights the fragility of NZ exporters and the impact of the high dollar and their inability to compete with the rest of the world when it is high .... and the ever increasing cost of fuel is a double whammy

Consensus might be that both could improve but another year of struggling for SAN if the NZD doesn't fall and their is some fuel cost relief .... at least management seems reasonably comfortable

Amazed that the SAN shareprice has stayed up as high as it has over the years .... still about where it was 3 years ago and not that many exporters can say that

Deev8
29-11-2007, 10:15 AM
... he said he was going to start hedging when the dollar hit 0.60 earlier in the year, but don't think it was there long enough to get any hedging in.Unfortunately the dollar hasn't been anywhere near US 60c this year, the low point was more than US 66c.

http://uk.ichart.yahoo.com/z?s=NZDUSD=X&t=1y

Phaedrus
27-05-2010, 11:22 AM
A good LT industry to be in (but) I'd better take Phaedrus's general advice and wait for the downtrend to turn, first, before buyingI'll bet you're glad you hung fire there, Tobo. 6 months later and the downtrend still hasn't ended! There is some news, though..... Yesterday SAN released their 6 month report - profits are down by 79.4%. This must have come as a surprise to some holders because the shareprice has dropped another 19 cents since then. SAN's weakness is no news for TA users, though. For them, this is simply the continuation of a pre-existing confirmed downtrend that has been running for over a year, so far.

In spite of SAN being a relatively lightly traded stock, this chart provides some nice clear illustrations of simple, kindergarten level TA in action. Note the (unsustainably) steep uptrend. See how the break of the confirmed trendline gave a very timely Sell signal, locking in profits. This signal confirmed the OBV trendline break Sell signal that had preceded it by several weeks. The OBV is supposed to be a "leading" indicator, firing ahead of price action and that is certainly what happened here.
The magenta trendline marking the subsequent downtrend was broken in early 2009, but see how this "buy" signal had no volume confirmation. The OBV was not rising. Those who understand the importance of volume would have ignored this signal.
Look now at the uptrend of early 2009 as marked by the light green trendline. See how this uptrend continued to lack the confirmation of a rising OBV - In fact, the OBV was falling - this uptrend had no future. It ended after a few short months, beginning the current downtrend which has run for over a year, so far.
Note the surgical precision with which the peaks of this downtrend fall on the trendline. Neat eh? I never cease to marvel at just how linear trends can be.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/PhaedrusPB/SAN527.gif

Lessons :-
(1) Don't buy downtrending stocks.
(2) Don't act on any single unconfirmed signal.
(3) By the time the company reports the bad news that "explains" the fall, it's too late.
(4) Don't buy downtrending stocks!

macduffy
27-05-2010, 11:35 AM
Thanks, Phaedrus..

Another fine tutorial!

SAN would be on a lot of watchlists I would think - it's on mine - and the recent weakness in the NZD might have tempted some buyers. A good example of the value in overlaying a bit of basic TA over fundamentals.

4be
27-05-2010, 11:55 AM
Good stuff Phaedrus, I was looking at SAN yesturday and was going to ask you to post a chart on them. Being a kindergarten level TA this has definatley helped. Cheers

tobo
27-05-2010, 03:33 PM
A thing of beauty!
(Not the price if you are a holder, but the clear and present story told by this chart.)
Thanks, Ph.

I guess it wasn't TOO much of a surprise, as it had already dropped near $2.
But you've got to think that if an established business is valued purely on it's earnings, 80% drop on earnings could theoretically be reflected by an 80% drop in sp.

iceman
24-12-2010, 10:10 AM
Based on the advise below, I believe Sanford is about to embark on a serious program to combine all their various recent aquisitions and exisiting operations into a streamlined and well managed operation. I believe this will include younger and fresher management taking on bigger and more important roles in the near future, which is a positive. With Hoki quotas expected to increase significantly over the next 3-5 years combined with significantly increased quota holdings through aquisitions, Sanford will need to invest in upgrading its catching and processing resources and they have a history at doing so at very good prices. Hopefully they will repeat this again BUT they need to make sure they invest in world class equipment. If they do, I would hope this company will go from strengt to strength in the next few years.
Discl: Hold SAN

Sanford Moving Forward

For some time the Board of Directors have been reviewing the development options for the future growth of Sanford Limited. While having been generally satisfied with the results over the last few years and have continued to support growth both by acquisition and direct investment they believe it is now time to start looking at new ways of going forward. Examples of acquisitions and investment include the Jones Group assets, the NIMPL expansion, the Bluff Salmon farm expansion, the Sealord mussel farm purchases, the new inshore vessel San Hikurangi and the expansion of mussel opening technology at Havelock. They remain concerned that we are still subject to significant outside influences that determine our performance. While exchange rates is a significant influence it is not the only one and they believe it is now time to put in place management strategies that build further on our strengths and fundamentally examine the way in which we transact our business from the ocean to our customers in a way that continues our leadership in sustainable seafood. We need to examine our products and processes and our systems of determining what are the best markets and channels to those markets and what product form maximises value. For some years we have struggled to earn our cost of capital and the only way to improve that is to lift our earnings and/or reduce our capital.

The Board has approved a revised management structure that will reduce the number of direct reports to me and allow me to focus on reviewing and developing the 10 or so strategic relationships we have with various companies. At the same time and on a more regular basis these three new roles will expose the Board to senior management tasked with moving the company forward.

Consequently from 1 January 2011 a new structure will be put in place with three direct reports to me.

Those roles will be:-



General Manager Operations

This role will cover all operating divisions of the business. It will include Inshore, Deepwater, Aquaculture, Pacific Tuna, China, and Industry Liaison roles. Division or existing Managers will report through the General Manager Operations position.



Greg Johansson will be appointed to this role and this will involve him relocating to Auckland and a new appointment to the role of Deepwater Division Manager based in Timaru will be made as a consequence of this.



General Manager Marketing and Development

This role will cover all marketing (including the appointment of a marketing team leader), quality management, product specifications, logistics, plus responsibility for Australian activities. It will also take responsibility for the formation of a product innovation and development capability that will look at developing more efficient, effective and sustainable ways of meeting customer requirements.



Vaughan Wilkinson will be appointed to this role which will involve him relinquishing responsibility for the Pacific Tuna and Industry Liaison roles but taking on responsibility for Australia and leading the new product innovation and development capability.



General Manager Finance and Administration

This role will cover all finance and banking, sustainability systems, secretarial and quota administration, accounting and IT systems, insurance, ACC and superannuation and executive support systems. Further development of our software systems and coordinating the expansion of our website and converting it to multi lingual will be an early focus of this role.



Dean McIntosh will be appointed to this role which will also require him to mentor with others in similar roles in similar sized companies.



The establishment of these roles is intended to strengthen the structure of the business and the existing executive will continue to meet with the same attendees and reporting as occurred in the past. These changes in no way diminish the roles or responsibilities of the Division Managers and they and I will continue to interact on a regular or as required basis.



If you have any queries or questions on this email please contact myself.



Kind Regards

><(((☺>

Eric Barratt

Managing Director

Jaa
26-02-2012, 10:34 PM
This story about Sanford's use of slave labour to catch their fish is an absolute disgrace and very dangerous to NZ's good reputation for ethical food production and thus NZ Inc.

Whistleblower in hiding after 'slavery' storm (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/6481035/Whistleblower-in-hiding-after-slavery-storm)

Orginal Businessweek story:

Slaves Put Squid on U.S. Dining Tables From South Pacific’s Cruelest Catch (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-23/slaves-put-squid-on-u-s-dining-tables-from-south-pacific-catch.html)

I will not be investing in Sanford until the current management and fishing practices are changed. Blaming and pursing the whistleblower is bad management in the extreme.

iceman
27-02-2012, 08:43 AM
Yes this is a bad story Jaa and I find the initial response from the CEO very unfortunate. It is unacceptable for Sanford to be involved with any companies that behave like has been suggested in the Bloomberg story
However, the story is not about "Sanford's use of slave labour". The vessel which is at the center of this story has never worked for Sanford but the crew member who is rightly making the claims, did work on a Sanford associated vessel some years ago and has claimed some serious mistreatment happened onboard there as well. Claims that need to be investigated and the truth discovered ASAP. Sanford has had independent observers on all their associated foreign charter fleet for 10 years now and it is incomprehensible that this can happen while they were onboard. If the claims are proven correct, then the observer program has miserably failed, which would be a bad mark against Sanford's management.
I will wait for all sides of this story to come out before making any decisions on continued investment in Sanford. My experience with Sanford is of very capable management who take their responsibilites seriously and operate openly and honourably.
Below is a link (I hope it comes out Ok as I never seem to be able to post them correctly) to a recent article by Gareth Morgan which injects some reality into the discussion about use of cheaper labour in NZ.

http://www.gmi.co.nz/news/1342/outrage-at-foreign-fishing-fleet-hypocritical.aspx[/URL]

Discl: Hold SAN

Marilyn Munroe
01-03-2012, 05:18 PM
I propose that all wages for foreign chartered fishing vessels be paid into an account under the control of an independent body for forward disbursement to the crew.

This would give an accurate record of what has or has not been paid and be used to settle wages disputes. It would enable NZ authorities to check payments against pay contracts that the crew sign and are required to be submitted to the authorities. This body should also have the power to act on the behalf of crew to obtain unpaid wages, and act against breaches of the Truck Act


BVoop boop de do

Marilyn

iceman
02-03-2012, 10:38 AM
That is basically what the Government announced yesterday MM. From now on all wages/salaries will need to be paid into a NZ bank account in the name of the individual crew member and under his/her full control. This will ensure that pay rates are easily monitored. But of course there are still issues with what happens once these guys get back to their often very corrupt countries, but that is something the NZ Government or NZ companies can not control. The Government has also announced 100% observer coverage on all foreign charter vessels, something Sanford has been doing voluntarily for 10 years. Both rules are steps in the right direction.

Marilyn Munroe
02-05-2016, 12:20 PM
Hopefully the changes requiring all fishing quota vessels to NZ flaged wiil bring some stability and respectability to the fishing industry.


One of the spin-offs I hope to see is introduction of new vessels into the fleet. If these vessels have on-board sale ready processing so much the better.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/79487729/crackdown-on-slave-fishing-crews-foreign-charter-vessels-must-reflag-to-new-zealand

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

ratkin
29-03-2020, 03:33 AM
Just curious, why does Sanford barely rate a mention on these forums? Is it considered a bit of a dog?

Aaron
29-03-2020, 07:30 AM
Just curious, why does Sanford barely rate a mention on these forums? Is it considered a bit of a dog?

Not an exciting growth company I suppose. I brought it at what I thought was a decent yield and have done little since then. Old management were disparaged but they focused on quota. New mgmt. focusing on customers but buying dodgy boats and selling some quota in Tauranga which in my uneducated and possibly ignorant opinion would always be a bad idea. Quota is what makes a fishing company attractive in my opinion. The only intangible asset that will always be worth something unless the govt change the system.

The thread below probably took over any Sanford discussion.

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?6911-Sanford-Earnings-FC-effected-by-FX-changes/page2&highlight=sanford

Hope you are coping with the Covid-19 crisis OK, your earlier posts although prescient did come across as overly negative but it is good to see they have lightened up a bit.

Waikaka
29-03-2020, 10:45 AM
I have recently started buying some Sanford. Small stakes but enough to encourage me to start reading up.

PE of ~12, 3.5% dividend and generally free cashflow.

I really like the spread of markets they sell into. solid 40+% to NZ and they rest pretty evenly spread around the world.

Does anyone hate it and why?

hogie
29-03-2020, 11:40 AM
I have recently started buying some Sanford. Small stakes but enough to encourage me to start reading up.

PE of ~12, 3.5% dividend and generally free cashflow.

I really like the spread of markets they sell into. solid 40+% to NZ and they rest pretty evenly spread around the world.

Does anyone hate it and why?

Company should do well even during this "economic pandemonium" ... it's my most recent new purchase.

Sideshow Bob
29-03-2020, 12:19 PM
Company should do well even during this "economic pandemonium" ... it's my most recent new purchase.

Should have significant savings at the current oil price.

iceman
29-03-2020, 12:48 PM
Good discussion. This is a strong company in an industry that will come out of this crisis better than most.
I disagree that they made a mistake when selling the quota in Tauranga. It was mackerel and some low value tuna quota and several outdated purse seine vessels that have never made money for SAN and would have required significant investment if it was to be successful. They also had a few of these vessels up in the Pacific and sold them as well.

The current CEO has been totally changing the direction of the company with a view of increasing value per kg caught and I think this has been a commendable goal. He has hugely increased local NZ sales to the top end restaurants of town and overseas, particularly with salmon, but also other species such as snapper and scampi. He's also done a great job with the changes at the Auckland Fishmarket. But like the rest of us, he did not foresee COVID-19 and the drop in demand from high end restaurants, so that strategy is backfiring a little.
Sales in this industry are basically shutting down of high end products going direct to restaurants in NZ, Australia, China, US and Europe while commodities such as fillet block is in high demand by supermarkets and, in my view, will only increase during this crisis. As an example, I'm on a large factory vessel that produces a commodity product and we have Japanese buyers guaranteeing they will buy whatever we can produce and prepay it as we catch it.

So the industry will remain strong and come out of this and SAN will be able to adjust, but their strategy of higher value may need to take a back seat for some time.

I have made my view of their recent (2-4 years) vessel purchasing decisions clear in previous comments, on the other thread I think. They have been appalling and caused me to sell my SAN shares a couple of years ago. They need to get their act together in this part of their business as they are running an outdated fleet and factories that require large investments. But they haven't given any confidence they know how to do this.

The drop in the FX rate recently will be a big boost for them. A few years ago it was talked about that a drop by 1c in USD rate equaled NZ$ 1m extra revenue pa for SAN. They now sell much more in NZ/Aus so I don;t know if this still holds true.

But overall a good strong company in a good industry with a CEO that I think sees what needs to be done. But so far his results have been a little disappointing.

Discl; On my watchlist but not tempted to buy just yet

percy
29-03-2020, 12:55 PM
Thanks Iceman.

Waikaka
29-03-2020, 12:58 PM
Just got lost in their 162 page annual report. Seems they have complex USD hedges and commodity swaps for the fuel oil might minimise the immediate benefits from the most recent low oil prices. Definitely help them in the future though.

Always end up down a rabbit hole in the annual report footnote and appendices. Really like the KPI charts but pretty disappointing that lost time injuries are at a 5 year high, they need to sort that out.

Tried to find out how much they sell to restaurants but it is not broken out in the report. Again another company that is hard to assess the impact of COVID19.

iceman
29-03-2020, 01:01 PM
Just got lost in their 162 page annual report. Seems they have complex USD hedges and commodity swaps for the fuel oil might minimise the immediate benefits from the most recent low oil prices. Definitely help them in the future though.

Always end up down a rabbit hole in the annual report footnote and appendices. Really like the KPI charts but pretty disappointing that lost time injuries are at a 5 year high, they need to sort that out.

Tried to find out how much they sell to restaurants but it is not broken out in the report. Again another company that is hard to assess the impact of COVID19.

I would say a lot of that is due to the very unfortunate death of a crew member last year, causing their "newest" vessel to be tied up in port for many weeks to make it "safer". One of the several bad vessel decisions I mentioned above.

ratkin
29-03-2020, 01:13 PM
Lots of good info today, will add them to my watch list. Nearly bought a few on the big meltdown day last week, wish I had now,but was wary of going in blind. Had skimmed over the fundamentals and thought they looked ok, but that was about the extent of it. Am sure there will be other opportunities in the not too distant future.

Many restaurants will go to the wall, and if this drags on they will have very few customers even when the lock down is over. This is situation I like as generally buy with a Ten year time frame, and the cheaper it gets the better.

No funding problems to worry about? Iceman mentioned the fleet a little sub par. If you took restaurants completely out of the equation would they still turn a profit on the supermarket stuff alone?

iceman
29-03-2020, 01:28 PM
No funding problems to worry about? Iceman mentioned the fleet a little sub par. If you took restaurants completely out of the equation would they still turn a profit on the supermarket stuff alone?

Definitely no funding issues. Very lowly geared. To find the answer to your 2nd highlighted question you just need to go back to Annual Reports from 2017 or before to find the answer. Since then they've made big changes to their marketing strategy but little change to fleet or factories.

Aaron
29-03-2020, 03:45 PM
Good discussion. This is a strong company in an industry that will come out of this crisis better than most.
I disagree that they made a mistake when selling the quota in Tauranga. It was mackerel and some low value tuna quota and several outdated purse seine vessels that have never made money for SAN and would have required significant investment if it was to be successful. They also had a few of these vessels up in the Pacific and sold them as well.
My understanding is probably pretty limited but with quota I understand you have to use it or lose it. I assume selling the boats and leasing the quota wasn't an option?

macduffy
29-03-2020, 05:39 PM
Many restaurants will go to the wall, and if this drags on they will have very few customers even when the lock down is over. This is situation I like as generally buy with a Ten year time frame, and the cheaper it gets the better.


Yes, many restaurants will go to the wall but many others will start up when this is all over. And fish dishes will be as popular as ever!

:)

iceman
30-03-2020, 04:36 AM
My understanding is probably pretty limited but with quota I understand you have to use it or lose it. I assume selling the boats and leasing the quota wasn't an option?

No not at all a use it or lose it situation. Most Iwi for example always lease out their quotas. The boats had no value (or very little) on their own.

Marilyn Munroe
30-03-2020, 11:28 AM
No not at all a use it or lose it situation. Most Iwi for example always lease out their quotas. The boats had no value (or very little) on their own.

My suspicion, though I have no direct information, is Sanford became happy and comfortable leasing their quota to the Koreans with their slave Asian crews.

Their response to kiwi-isation of deep water fisheries has been mixed.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

Waikaka
30-03-2020, 08:34 PM
Still learning about the business. Iceman reckons the vessels might have some issues so thought I might do a lay person check.

Hard to know who to compare it too but Sealord might fit the bill, slightly smaller revenue overall but seems a close competitor.

Both have about the same number of deep water vessels.

Sanford have an average age of 1989, Sealord have average of 1990 but that is heavily skewed by the two ukranian beasts from the 1970's. If I exclude the 2 oldest from both fleets then Sealord average age is 1996 vs Sanford 1991.

Would I be correct in assuming newer vessels are generally more efficient, need less crew and have less repairs required?

I realise it is expensive but perhaps they need to have a long term vessel renewal plan in place?

The brand new $70 Million Sealord one looks like a epic unit. Hopefully less injuries and a happier crew as well.
https://www.sealord.com/nz/newsroom/new-zealand-s-most-modern-deep-sea-fishing-vessel-arrives-in-her-new-home-town/


Dont hold me to it but tables below.





Built
Capacity cubic m


Sealord
FV OTAKOU
1989
130


Sealord
FV THOMAS HARRISON
1989
180


Sealord
FV AUKAHA
1997
390


Sealord
FV OCEAN DAWN
1991
560


Sealord
FV REHUA
1997
660


Sealord
FV WILL WATCH
1972
530


Sealord
FV TOKATU
2018
1300


Sealord
FV MERIDIAN-1
1991
1200


Sealord
FV PROFESOR MYKHAYLO ALEKSANDROV
1970
1200




vs Sanford





Built
Capacity cubic m


Sanford
San Waitaki
1990
940


Sanford
San Enterprise
1990
940


Sanford
San Discovery
1992
940


Sanford
San Aspiring
2001
725


Sanford
San Aotea II
1993
515


Sanford
Albatross II
1984
35


Sanford
Christmas Creek
1981
25


Sanford
Drysdale
1986
35


Sanford
Venture K
1985
40



Saw a few photos from when I was looking up the details and I am no expert but the older ones are pretty terrible looking.

iceman
30-03-2020, 11:15 PM
Good accurate summary Waikaka. Vessels built today according to owners of new vessels I have spoken to is that they are around 50-70% more efficient than 20 year old vessels, including huge reductions in emissions and much less cost per Value Per Unit Effort
The last 4 vessels on your list for SAN are their scampi vessels that fish parts of the year in the Southern Ocean. This is not only stupid on these vessels but also very dangerous. SAN is planning an urgent replacement of them.
The 2 above it are their toothfish vessels that are also up for replacements, at least one of them. They fish in an olympic (competitive) quota fishery in the Antarctic and are being left behind by newer and much better vessels from Norway and other countries.

But the big need for change is in the inshore fleet which is so old and outdated that it is not possible for SAN and the CEO to achieve the increased quality and freshness he is aiming for with this pathetic equipment. This is now holding back his plan called "focus on fresh", which in any case has now been held back by the huge change caused by COVID.
Another side issue is that it has become impossible for SAN to hire good young people on their vessels. That will not happen until they are more up to date with good accommodation and crew comfort and constant high speed internet connections.
The industry has seen the change this has made in both Iceland and Norway when they made a major upgrade to their fleet in the last 5-10 years, all of a sudden young people became interested to make this a career again.

Waikaka
03-04-2020, 12:26 PM
Not a terrible briefing,

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/351240/320303.pdf (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/351240/320303.pdf)

I still cant find out how much of their trade goes to restaurants but hopefully most can be redirected to retail customers, without too much hit to margins.

kiora
19-04-2020, 05:07 AM
"Sanford says $20m 'marine extract' facility will create 30 jobs in Marlborough"
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117542790/sanford-says-20m-marine-extract-facility-will-create-30-jobs-in-marlborough?rm=m

Apathy
21-04-2020, 09:11 PM
Good accurate summary Waikaka. Vessels built today according to owners of new vessels I have spoken to is that they are around 50-70% more efficient than 20 year old vessels, including huge reductions in emissions and much less cost per Value Per Unit Effort
The last 4 vessels on your list for SAN are their scampi vessels that fish parts of the year in the Southern Ocean. This is not only stupid on these vessels but also very dangerous. SAN is planning an urgent replacement of them.
The 2 above it are their toothfish vessels that are also up for replacements, at least one of them. They fish in an olympic (competitive) quota fishery in the Antarctic and are being left behind by newer and much better vessels from Norway and other countries.

But the big need for change is in the inshore fleet which is so old and outdated that it is not possible for SAN and the CEO to achieve the increased quality and freshness he is aiming for with this pathetic equipment. This is now holding back his plan called "focus on fresh", which in any case has now been held back by the huge change caused by COVID.
Another side issue is that it has become impossible for SAN to hire good young people on their vessels. That will not happen until they are more up to date with good accommodation and crew comfort and constant high speed internet connections.
The industry has seen the change this has made in both Iceland and Norway when they made a major upgrade to their fleet in the last 5-10 years, all of a sudden young people became interested to make this a career again.

There have been some pretty good - informed comments in the section but I think its been a bit generous in terms of current management. The fleet is a mess, they have sold quota (only to find out they needed it and have had to lease it back at exorbitant premium) and are investing in a vertical integration program which they have no experience in.... great industry but lack of focus in terms of core business is going to hold them back.

bull....
28-05-2020, 09:28 AM
lower profits and reduced dividend , wont be the only company reporting these type results

Marilyn Munroe
28-05-2020, 11:34 AM
From the SAN half year report;

"The projects we have underway in our diverse fishing division, both inshore and in the deep sea fleet are going well, but they are substantial undertakings requiring significant investment of capital, time and expertise and therefore require our patience as we tackle the move from commodity to added value, species by species."

Buenos días Iceman, would you care to comment?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

iceman
29-05-2020, 07:22 AM
From the SAN half year report;

"The projects we have underway in our diverse fishing division, both inshore and in the deep sea fleet are going well, but they are substantial undertakings requiring significant investment of capital, time and expertise and therefore require our patience as we tackle the move from commodity to added value, species by species."

Buenos días Iceman, would you care to comment?

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

I don't really know what they are referring to as they haven't made any announcements that I've noticed. But I heard a little rumour that they have signed a deal to build replacement scampi vessels in Holland. I've seen some of the requirements they put out for tendering for them and am underwhelmed. Their last couple of vessel purchases have been disasters as has been discussed on this thread and I fear they are once again making a mistake when selecting new equipment. Cost savings seem to have a higher priority than anything else, which is not the wisest thing to do when selecting new machinery to last you for decades. I thought they had learnt from the last 2 stuff ups.

No idea what else they are doing but as I have stated on this thread, their toothfish vessels need replacing soon and I suspect the lack of performance in this fishery for SAN this year may be partly due to other operators having much better vessels to compete in the Ross Sea's olympic fishery.

I find the result on the whole underwhelming/disappointing.

Aaron
27-07-2020, 07:55 AM
I watched a program called the "Price of Fish" yesterday. It discussed the quota management system and pointed out the people of NZ don't get any return from it, although it is supposedly protecting the resource for all NZ. It also pointed out the level of dumping going on and generally was critical of the quota management system. I am actually sympathetic to many of the issues raised but am torn as the quota system is what makes my investment in Sanford so secure.

It also reinforced how bat **** crazy management were selling quota of any species under the current system. There might be a better system but it will probably impact poorly on my safe Sanford investment.

I guess Covid-19 has shown even conservative investments such as AIA, SKC and the property companies face risks. Rio Tinto has unsettled shareholders in the power companies, although they will still make money.

No point to be made just wondered if anyone else saw it. Didn't watch to the end as they seemed to harp on the same themes.

iceman
27-07-2020, 10:29 AM
I watched a program called the "Price of Fish" yesterday. It discussed the quota management system and pointed out the people of NZ don't get any return from it, although it is supposedly protecting the resource for all NZ. It also pointed out the level of dumping going on and generally was critical of the quota management system. I am actually sympathetic to many of the issues raised but am torn as the quota system is what makes my investment in Sanford so secure.

It also reinforced how bat **** crazy management were selling quota of any species under the current system. There might be a better system but it will probably impact poorly on my safe Sanford investment.

I guess Covid-19 has shown even conservative investments such as AIA, SKC and the property companies face risks. Rio Tinto has unsettled shareholders in the power companies, although they will still make money.

No point to be made just wondered if anyone else saw it. Didn't watch to the end as they seemed to harp on the same themes.

It was sent to me Aaron but due to my travels and bad connections at the moment I could not watch it all properly.
As you know, I am involved in the fishing industry but dlsclose I have no financial interest in the NZ industry at present. NZ and Iceland have a very similar QMS (Quota Management Systems) that are quite different from most other countries. These 2 countries introduced their systems for the exact same reason. Trying to stop overfishing and making fishing sustainable for fish stocks and other affected species (birds, dolphins, sharks etc etc).
Both of these countries have been vastly more successful with those goals than any other countries I know and I've worked under about 10-15 different systems.

The biggest argument I hear in both countries against the systems is that some people have been very successful at it and made good money. My view is that many people were making big money before these systems were introduced. There is nothing wrong with that.
I am not saying at all that the system is perfect, but I have not seen anywhere around the World, systems that manage access to this resource better than NZ and Iceland.
If people want to demand change, they need to say what is the better alternative.

Marilyn Munroe
27-07-2020, 12:17 PM
One of my criticisms of quota management is how little the benefit of privileged access to quota given to Maori has trickled down to the ordinary Maori joker struggling to keep his family feed.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

iceman
05-08-2020, 09:41 AM
SAN closing its Tauranga fish factory with the loss of 65 jobs. One wonders how much this site is worth for them to sell, but probably not a lot with all the derelict and unsafe buildings.
This completes they're withdrawal from Tauranga after selling the pelagic operation a couple of years ago.
I've also heard that they have sold their Australian hoki and orange roughy quotas to Talley's which, if true, is a decision I do not understand.
Happy to remain on the sidelines with this one and am starting to question where the management is heading with it all. They've said all the right things but I see very little action to back up the big goals.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/357447

Aaron
05-08-2020, 01:51 PM
SAN closing its Tauranga fish factory with the loss of 65 jobs. One wonders how much this site is worth for them to sell, but probably not a lot with all the derelict and unsafe buildings.
This completes they're withdrawal from Tauranga after selling the pelagic operation a couple of years ago.
I've also heard that they have sold their Australian hoki and orange roughy quotas to Talley's which, if true, is a decision I do not understand.
Happy to remain on the sidelines with this one and am starting to question where the management is heading with it all. They've said all the right things but I see very little action to back up the big goals.

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/357447

Hopefully it is not true regarding selling more quota. The only reason I could think that you might sell it is if you are getting a backhander from the guy your selling it to.

BlackPeter
25-08-2020, 09:07 AM
Whatever it is - markets not happy with Sanford these days. Not quite sure yet, whether this is Sanford shares on special or whether this is just another iteration of a dropping knife on no news.

However - I recon it won't take long for us to find out ... today is the day!

iceman
02-09-2020, 09:31 AM
This is a very bad announcement. COVID has put the brakes very hard on their policy of aiming miost of their production to higher value customers such as restaurants around the World. The high value has become very difficult to sell with large price drops. Commodity products into supermarkets is where the market is today.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/359084

BlackPeter
02-09-2020, 10:04 AM
This is a very bad announcement. COVID has put the brakes very hard on their policy of aiming miost of their production to higher value customers such as restaurants around the World. The high value has become very difficult to sell with large price drops. Commodity products into supermarkets is where the market is today.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/359084

No doubt - there will be accumulation opportunities ahead if the market should overreact :);

How many years will Corona related restrictions impact on the revenue (and income) stream? Right.

Interesting though that our top wine producers (who basically sell to the same clientele) didn't notice their revenues to drop due to reduced restaurant consumption ...

Discl: holding a (small) position and ready to accumulate at the right price;

iceman
10-09-2020, 09:17 AM
CEO leaving. A big surprise. Very short notice and clear he has been pushed. . As I’ve said on this thread for awhile now, SAN's management has made some very bad decisions in the last couple of years and not really making any traction towards the ambitious goals Volker set. Maybe time for a big clean out in management to change the direction !

Scrunch
10-09-2020, 04:30 PM
CEO leaving. A big surprise. Very short notice and clear he has been pushed. . As I’ve said on this thread for awhile now, SAN's management has made some very bad decisions in the last couple of years and not really making any traction towards the ambitious goals Volker set. Maybe time for a big clean out in management to change the direction !

Must be a massive fallout between the CEO and the board for the last day to be 18 September or one weeks notice.

Aaron
11-09-2020, 02:19 PM
Maybe they realised how much quota he was selling and needed to stop him selling an extremely valuable intangible asset. Quota they will never get back which they could have leased. I imagine it has taken years for Sanfords to slowly buy up quota and now it is gone. I say this with very little understanding of the business but can't for the life of me figure out why he would sell any.
Covid-19 would have also put a dampener on the sales to high end restaurants.

iceman
12-09-2020, 07:07 AM
Maybe they realised how much quota he was selling and needed to stop him selling an extremely valuable intangible asset. Quota they will never get back which they could have leased. I imagine it has taken years for Sanfords to slowly buy up quota and now it is gone. I say this with very little understanding of the business but can't for the life of me figure out why he would sell any.
Covid-19 would have also put a dampener on the sales to high end restaurants.

Agree Aaron. That as well as very bad decisions on vessel purchases with FV Granit and the plastic inshore trawler they bought from Canada. The former has been a total disaster with around $12-15 million (my estimate) spent on it so far and a budget request for another $12-14 million just to try to get it up to scratch. Still catching appallingly. That will take this old heap of ****e up to $60-65 m and they would never sell it for more than $20-25 m.
The plastic ****e they bought from Canada was so badly designed that it never even got licensed to fish in NZ and was quietly written off.

I fear their preliminary (MOU only as far as I know) decision on scampi replacement vessels is of similar quality.

Discl: Happy to be out

macduffy
12-09-2020, 11:58 AM
Is it possible that some future re-thinking on the quota system might lead to a revaluation, downwards, of this asset? After all, NZ First may not be around the corridors of power to protect the fishers' interests for much longer!

Disc: Not holding SAN.

iceman
13-09-2020, 07:35 AM
Is it possible that some future re-thinking on the quota system might lead to a revaluation, downwards, of this asset? After all, NZ First may not be around the corridors of power to protect the fishers' interests for much longer!

Disc: Not holding SAN.

That would affect SAN and other industry players in a big way, depending on the changes obviously.
But I can not see that happening and why should it ? In my view NZ and Iceland have the best fisheries management systems in the World. To a large degree, they have managed to do what they set out to do when the QMS was introduced, sustainable fisheries management. No other countries have done it better.

macduffy
13-09-2020, 09:14 AM
Fair enough, iceman. I was thinking of the political aspect; the anti-fishing lobby that opposes the industry; the possibility of some tinkering that achieves little but appeases at the expense of quota holders.

iceman
13-09-2020, 09:57 AM
Fair enough, iceman. I was thinking of the political aspect; the anti-fishing lobby that opposes the industry; the possibility of some tinkering that achieves little but appeases at the expense of quota holders.

And you're totally correct. That anti fishing lobby is very strong and misinformed

Marilyn Munroe
21-10-2020, 11:48 AM
Here is a link to an article which is positive about future prospects for Green Lipped Mussel farming and mentions Sanford in passing;

https://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/107622/hatchery-technologies-and-open-sea-farms-provide-platform-new-endeavours-green

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

iceman
05-11-2020, 08:27 AM
A big downgrade and a terrible result. I'm glad I'm out. Hopefully they will announce soon who the new CEO will be and how they are going to reset the business !

SAN
05/11/2020 08:33
MKTUPDTE
PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0833 HRS Sanford Limited (NS)

MKTUPDTE: SAN: Update on 2020 Full Year Results

5 November 2020

NZX Continuous Disclosure

Update on Sanford 2020 Full Year Results

Sanford Limited (NZX: SAN) wishes to advise the market of certain key
unaudited metrics from its full year results for the year ended 30 September
2020. This is ahead of the release of its full results announcement on
Thursday 12 November, as previously communicated to the market.

Key unaudited metrics: Note 1
o Net Profit After Tax (NPAT): $22.4m, a 46% decrease on 2019 ($41.7m).
o Total Revenue: $468.8m, a 14% decrease on 2019 ($545.1m).
o Adjusted (underlying) Earnings Before Interest and Tax (EBIT): $38.3m, a
41% decrease on 2019 ($64.8m). Note 2

Our earnings reflect the ongoing impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic on
Sanford's sales channels, primarily to food service, as disclosed in our
market update on 2 September 2020.

This result is a continuation of the sales revenue trend which we advised the
market of in September. However, the fourth quarter profitability was
further impacted by the following factors:
o Poorer than expected wildcatch performance in September driven by a lower
than expected Patagonian toothfish catch.
o A lower fair value of salmon stock in water with expected future sales
pricing under pressure.

The result this year is disappointing, and our markets continue to be
challenging and difficult to predict because of the evolving Covid-19
situation. Despite this our cash collection remained satisfactory through
the year and our balance sheet is strong. We continue to assess and make
changes to re-position the business to be more adaptable and match our costs
to the new environment.

For information, please contact:
Fiona MacMillan
GM Corporate Communications
+64 (0)21 513 522

winner69
05-11-2020, 09:10 AM
At least they show remorse :eek2: - They said The result this year is disappointing,

Seem to say that quite often

winner69
05-11-2020, 09:10 AM
How much is it costing them putting the 'mariners' in quarantine in Chch

iceman
05-11-2020, 11:00 AM
How much is it costing them putting the 'mariners' in quarantine in Chch

They're not involved. That is Sealord, Independent and Maruha

winner69
05-11-2020, 11:07 AM
They're not involved. That is Sealord, Independent and Maruha

Thanks for that

Jaa
05-11-2020, 03:52 PM
Any thoughts on the long term impact of the Christchurch quarantine debacle Iceman?

To me it's definitely shining a spotlight on some lazy practices in the industry that have continued for a long time. Harvesting NZ fish quota with foreign crews on foreign boats isn't doing NZ much good socially, environmentally, economically and now you can add negative health affects.

Seems an easy win for Labour to bring back apprenticeships in partnership with industry and Maori training providers while at the same time requiring the fishing industry to use NZ flagged vessels and an increasing percentage of NZ crew. No NZ First to protect the industry any more.

Scrunch
05-11-2020, 08:02 PM
Any thoughts on the long term impact of the Christchurch quarantine debacle Iceman?

To me it's definitely shining a spotlight on some lazy practices in the industry that have continued for a long time. Harvesting NZ fish quota with foreign crews on foreign boats isn't doing NZ much good socially, environmentally, economically and now you can add negative health affects.

Seems an easy win for Labour to bring back apprenticeships in partnership with industry and Maori training providers while at the same time requiring the fishing industry to use NZ flagged vessels and an increasing percentage of NZ crew. No NZ First to protect the industry any more.

So is this easy win going to decrease or increase expenses? My guess is that increase them and the reason foreign crew's are used is because they are cheaper.
Is it going to increase revenues - probably not. Foreign purchases are unlikely to want to pay more for fish so that a NZ crew is on the boat.

Sanford has just reported a net surplus representing 4.8% of revenue, so inclusive of the benefits of these non-ideal practices you note, they aren't creaming it with high margins. The current 5% margin could fall quite a lot further if the government were to impose significant additional costs via rules on requiring higher NZ crew percentages and restricting where the vessel is flagged.

iceman
06-11-2020, 06:13 AM
Any thoughts on the long term impact of the Christchurch quarantine debacle Iceman?

To me it's definitely shining a spotlight on some lazy practices in the industry that have continued for a long time. Harvesting NZ fish quota with foreign crews on foreign boats isn't doing NZ much good socially, environmentally, economically and now you can add negative health affects.

Seems an easy win for Labour to bring back apprenticeships in partnership with industry and Maori training providers while at the same time requiring the fishing industry to use NZ flagged vessels and an increasing percentage of NZ crew. No NZ First to protect the industry any more.

I think it is very difficult to say if there will be a long term impact from this debacle, although it is quite possible that a more negative sentiment towards the practice of using foreign crew may develop, even within Government.
I do note that these vessels have historically been used to catch significant amounts of lower value species such as mackerel that Kiwi boats have not targeted to any large degree due to poor economics. But they also catch species like hoki and squid.
All of these vessels are NZ flagged, after a law change some years ago but obviously you will not get Kiwis on these boats when the likes of Sealords advertise for crew with an ability to speak Russian !! But because they are NZ flagged, NZ laws, including employment law, applies to them and that includes minimum wages. So the Russian fishermen are not "slave labour" by any stretch of the imagination.

It should be noted that Sanford has NZ crew on their own vessels (not sure if they still charter a Korean vessel with Korean crew) and Talley's always crew all of their vessels with NZ crew. Sealord has a couple of these Russians, Independent Fisheries 3 I think and Maruha also uses only foreign crew (like Independent). Sadly Sealord also has a significant part of the crew foreign, on their new and flash vessel Tokatu. This is due to the fact that it is near on impossible to get keen, reliable young Kiwis to work in the sector. They don't want to go away for many weekends and they don't want to be subjected to random drug tests.
People often say that is due to low earnings but I don't agree. An unqualified 18 yo hard worker can go out on the factory trawlers (5 weeks trips) and work for 6 months of the year starting at $40-50k. No food or accommodation costs for those 6 months. If they work hard, the companies will pay for them to go to various courses and I know of a boy here in Nelson that had his full Qualified Fishing Deckhand after 3 years and earning $70k p.a. for 6 months work. Another became a factory manager after 5 years on around $120k. So there are opportunities for people to do well in the industry but people are not available. There is a crewing crisis in the industry.

Sadly, until we change the attitudes and get young people interested in hard physical work again, foreign crewed vessels will always be part of the industry.

percy
06-11-2020, 06:31 AM
Iceman,thanks for your excellent post.

Ferg
09-11-2020, 10:05 AM
This seems to have slipped under the radar. Masfen buying into Sanford back in September.
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/359959

Sideshow Bob
12-11-2020, 07:41 AM
https://www.nzx.com/announcements/363101

Annual Results Announcement


12/11/2020, 8:30 amFLLYR12 November 2020
Name of Listed Issuer: SANFORD LIMITED (SAN)
FINANCIAL RESULTS for the year ended 30 September 2020
Sanford’s Full Year Results Reflect Impact of Covid-19
Year to 30 September 2020 vs 2019

Harvest Volumes (000 GW tonne) 113 +7%*
Sales Volumes (000 GW tonne) 106 0%*
$m
Revenue 469 -14% (-11%*)
Gross Profit 82 -23%
Adjusted EBIT 38 -41%
Net Profit After Tax 22 -46%

Earnings per Share 24 cents
Dividend per Share 5 cents

*on a comparable basis i.e. excluding pelagics business from 2019 figures. Sold in March 2020.
New Zealand seafood company Sanford Limited (NZX:SAN) has reported total revenue of $468.8m for the financial year ending September 30, 2020, a 14% decrease on 2019 ($545.1m). The business sees this decrease as directly attributable to the Covid-19 pandemic and its impact on food service globally.
However, the company says it has learned from the challenges and is adjusting to pandemic conditions, making the business better prepared for the year ahead, and remains confident that its longer-term strategy is the right one.

Sanford’s Adjusted (underlying) Earnings Before Interest and Tax (Adjusted EBIT ) for the year to 30 September 2020 was $38.3m (versus $64.8m for the prior year), representing a 41% decrease. Reported Net Profit After Tax (NPAT) 2020 was $22.4m, compared to $41.7m for the previous year, a 46% decrease.
Sanford, like many seafood companies globally, has been primarily reliant on food service as a sales channel, an area which has been hit hard by the lockdowns resulting from the Covid-19 pandemic response. For example, the company saw sales into North America fall by 30% compared to last year.
Acting CEO Andre Gargiulo says recent changes to sales tactics in global markets, to facilitate more consumer facing sales, means Sanford has a path to increased profitability in 2021.
“While we acknowledge this is a disappointing result, we are confident that our strategy to get closer to our consumers and maximise the value of our products is the right one. We are adjusting to changing market conditions and are putting in place a plan to more flexibly respond to changing environments, while protecting profits through an appropriate cost structure.

“It is a tribute to the hard work of our people that we have continued to operate profitably in 2020 despite the substantial challenges. The business has learned a great deal and we continue to develop alternative product formats and build a stronger presence in channels that have proved more resilient.”
CFO Katherine Turner says the numbers reflect the challenge of rapidly adapting a business which works on long time horizons for supply, for example seeding mussels or putting salmon smolt in the water two years ahead of harvesting.

“Pleasingly, we harvested more fish and shellfish than last year (with the exception of toothfish), but because of Covid-19, more stock than usual has gone to inventory.
“The pandemic’s impact on food service also meant that high value products were less in demand, reducing our margins further and increasing our cost base.
“Despite the challenges, our balance sheet and liquidity remain robust, with a gearing ratio at 31% compared to 24% last year and we will continue to make careful choices as we manage our asset rejuvenation programme, balancing investment needs with cashflow realities.”

Board Chair Sir Robert McLeod says the board is currently making good progress in the process to recruit a new CEO, replacing Volker Kuntzsch, who left on September 18, 2020.

Due to uncertainty caused by the impact of Covid-19, the ongoing asset rejuvenation programme and wish to ensure prudent cash availability, the Board has taken the decision not to pay a final dividend in respect of the 2020 financial year.

For more information or to arrange interviews, please contact:
Fiona MacMillan
GM Corporate Communications, Sanford
fmacmillan@sanford.co.nz
+64 (0)21 513 522

iceman
12-11-2020, 08:13 AM
Confirmed the pre-release last week. An absolute shocker. Interim divie of 5c (down from 9c) and already announcing NO final dividend (down from 14c). They have a lot of rebuilding and restructuring to do.

BlackPeter
12-11-2020, 09:04 AM
Interesting balance sheet. Inventories increased from $48.6m last year to $85.5m; I guess I see that unsold product in store (and hopefully in the freezer) does have value, but I am wondering how long unsold fish is keeping said value?

In situations like this it might be better to own a wine producer or even a Manuka honey producer rather than a fishing company :);

They better have a bumper Christmas sale ...

Jaa
12-11-2020, 05:25 PM
I think it is very difficult to say if there will be a long term impact from this debacle, although it is quite possible that a more negative sentiment towards the practice of using foreign crew may develop, even within Government.
I do note that these vessels have historically been used to catch significant amounts of lower value species such as mackerel that Kiwi boats have not targeted to any large degree due to poor economics. But they also catch species like hoki and squid.
All of these vessels are NZ flagged, after a law change some years ago but obviously you will not get Kiwis on these boats when the likes of Sealords advertise for crew with an ability to speak Russian !! But because they are NZ flagged, NZ laws, including employment law, applies to them and that includes minimum wages. So the Russian fishermen are not "slave labour" by any stretch of the imagination.

It should be noted that Sanford has NZ crew on their own vessels (not sure if they still charter a Korean vessel with Korean crew) and Talley's always crew all of their vessels with NZ crew. Sealord has a couple of these Russians, Independent Fisheries 3 I think and Maruha also uses only foreign crew (like Independent). Sadly Sealord also has a significant part of the crew foreign, on their new and flash vessel Tokatu. This is due to the fact that it is near on impossible to get keen, reliable young Kiwis to work in the sector. They don't want to go away for many weekends and they don't want to be subjected to random drug tests.
People often say that is due to low earnings but I don't agree. An unqualified 18 yo hard worker can go out on the factory trawlers (5 weeks trips) and work for 6 months of the year starting at $40-50k. No food or accommodation costs for those 6 months. If they work hard, the companies will pay for them to go to various courses and I know of a boy here in Nelson that had his full Qualified Fishing Deckhand after 3 years and earning $70k p.a. for 6 months work. Another became a factory manager after 5 years on around $120k. So there are opportunities for people to do well in the industry but people are not available. There is a crewing crisis in the industry.

Sadly, until we change the attitudes and get young people interested in hard physical work again, foreign crewed vessels will always be part of the industry.

Appreciate the thoughts Iceman, very interesting. Honestly surprised its Talley's with the most NZ crew. Good on them.

Disagree about the attractiveness of working in it though. Its hard, dangerous work that requires a big sacrifice. Better money and conditions in the mines.

The economist in me also doesn't buy all this employer angst about worker shortages. The labour market is pretty simple, if supply decreases like in this case where foreign workers are unavailable, wages must rise for the market to return to equilibrium. Whatever we may think of as good money, ultimately the market will decide. The government/industry can intervene a bit to increase demand with training or promotion but these won't work long term.

The real problem is much of the industry wouldn't be viable with mining like wages. Why Sealord for one invested so much to automate the fish cutting process. Mostly unsuccessfully.

Once talked to an accountant at Sealord, told me they used to have 10 boats and made the same amount of revenue they then made with 4 boats. The joke was that one day they would only have 1 boat but still make the same in revenue. Tough industry.

iceman
21-12-2020, 08:23 AM
SAN appoints a new CEO. An interesting choice https://www.directbroking.co.nz/DirectTrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=5567262

BlackPeter
18-01-2021, 11:20 AM
Just updating my spreadsheet and noticed that the Sanford share price reached in Dec 2019 the lofty heights of $8.00. Analyst consensus at that time was as well a pretty straight "BUY" recommendation (9.17 out of 10) - i.e. they forecasted strong further Share price growth compared to the index;

12 months later the index is 12% up, but the SAN share price dropped to $5.24 (i.e. by 35%).

Today the analyst consensus for Sanford is outperform (7.5 out of 10).

Based on this data set am I now wondering what analysts really recommend to do with Sanford shares?

Discl: holding (some) and confused ....

Scrunch
18-01-2021, 11:42 AM
Just updating my spreadsheet and noticed that the Sanford share price reached in Dec 2019 the lofty heights of $8.00. Analyst consensus at that time was as well a pretty straight "BUY" recommendation (9.17 out of 10) - i.e. they forecasted strong further Share price growth compared to the index;

12 months later the index is 12% up, but the SAN share price dropped to $5.24 (i.e. by 35%).

Today the analyst consensus for Sanford is outperform (7.5 out of 10).

Based on this data set am I now wondering what analysts really recommend to do with Sanford shares?

Discl: holding (some) and confused ....

Analyst coverage is fairly thin. Market screener only has two analysts covering it. One is Forsyth who had a $7.45 target for much of the year and more recently decreased this to $7.00. The other analyst covering it would appear to have a $5.20 target, but I don't know who it is.

Its on my watch list as a potential buy, but its still in a medium-term down trend. The more recently trend appears to be tracking sideways around 4.80-5.20.

I suspect the trigger for re-rating upwards will be the rest of the world getting Covid under control so the restaurant business resumes buying fish for their dishes. Its unclear if any re-rating will occur in anticipation of Covid being under control, or confirmation of increased sales / margins. With apparently successful vaccine's it looks to be the later which may create a good buying window before any increased sales start to improve the P&L / forecasts.

Monarch
18-01-2021, 07:55 PM
What do you guys think of the project south open ocean farm? They expect to produce up to 25000 GWT from it annually if it goes ahead, could be a game changer if they can maintain similar profit per GWT. The numbers seem too good to be true.

iceman
19-01-2021, 09:13 AM
Analyst coverage is fairly thin. Market screener only has two analysts covering it. One is Forsyth who had a $7.45 target for much of the year and more recently decreased this to $7.00. The other analyst covering it would appear to have a $5.20 target, but I don't know who it is.

Its on my watch list as a potential buy, but its still in a medium-term down trend. The more recently trend appears to be tracking sideways around 4.80-5.20.

I suspect the trigger for re-rating upwards will be the rest of the world getting Covid under control so the restaurant business resumes buying fish for their dishes. Its unclear if any re-rating will occur in anticipation of Covid being under control, or confirmation of increased sales / margins. With apparently successful vaccine's it looks to be the later which may create a good buying window before any increased sales start to improve the P&L / forecasts.

Yes COVID has definitely hit the seafood industry. But it hit Sanford probably harder than many due to the CEO's strategy to steer away from commodity products and aim almost entirely for the top end restaurant business.
His strategy is in tatters and he has abruptly left. He has been replaced by a person with no experience in the industry. I'm not saying that is necessarily bad, but it is a fact. I would have preferred to see an industry insider that would quickly be able to put his/her finger on what needs to be done and there is lots that needs to be done.
I therefore strongly feel SAN needs some in-house tiding up to do before I would consider becoming a holder again.

Monarch
19-01-2021, 09:55 AM
What do you guys think of the open ocean salmon farm Project South? The proposal says they expect to produce up to 25000 GWT of salmon yearly when fully scaled up. It seems like it could be quite lucrative if they can keep production costs in line with their other farms.

BlackPeter
19-01-2021, 12:00 PM
Yes COVID has definitely hit the seafood industry. But it hit Sanford probably harder than many due to the CEO's strategy to steer away from commodity products and aim almost entirely for the top end restaurant business.
His strategy is in tatters and he has abruptly left. He has been replaced by a person with no experience in the industry. I'm not saying that is necessarily bad, but it is a fact. I would have preferred to see an industry insider that would quickly be able to put his/her finger on what needs to be done and there is lots that needs to be done.
I therefore strongly feel SAN needs some in-house tiding up to do before I would consider becoming a holder again.

Cheers - you have some good points.

Re the new CEO (Peter Reidie) - he does have primary industry experience (from Farmlands and Goodman -Fielders). Admittedly - there are not just good things one hears from these companies as well.

You are right - he was not in the fishing industry before, but I hope that Sanford does have enough other hands and heads who know how to run ships and crews and fish. I sort of hope that a pair of fresh eyes with (not fishing) primary industry experience can see more than just another fisher picked out of an anyway very small talent pool.

I must however admit that the board didn't had a particularly lucky hand in appointing the previous CEO ... and yes, I remember as well some previous issues with ships and the overall strategy.

Didn't hold them during Volker's time ... they always looked too dear to me. At the moment the shares look cheaper (though not cheap), but you are certainly right - they still need to solve a number of issues.

Question is - are the shares of NZ's largest fisher more likely to drop from here another 50% (if the s*t hits the fan) or to rise by 100%?

Discl: Hold (a modest number) as part of my growing agricultural portfolio ... preparing myself for the coming economic downturn; People always need to eat :):

Waikaka
01-02-2021, 01:31 PM
I have ended up with quite a bit of SAN in recent months so particularly disappointing they seem to be breaking the rules in a such a blatant way.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/124112897/seafood-firm-could-lose-20m-vessel-after-trawling-in-protected-area

Lack of education for the skipper or just greed?

BlackPeter
01-02-2021, 04:43 PM
I have ended up with quite a bit of SAN in recent months so particularly disappointing they seem to be breaking the rules in a such a blatant way.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/124112897/seafood-firm-could-lose-20m-vessel-after-trawling-in-protected-area

Lack of education for the skipper or just greed?

Good question - Sanford is (as many other companies) the home of the hypocrites. Just another bunch of people saying one thing (https://www.sanford.co.nz/sustainability/fisheries-management/) and doing something else. I still remember their howling when they made CRP's life difficult (who wanted to get a permit for some bottom trawling) ... but as long as it is Sanford themselves destroying habitats (and without permit) it obviously must be o.k.?

Having said that - the incidents lie 3 to 4 years back .. and they well might have caught only what they would have caught as well with a watchdog present. I doubt they will lose their boat over that, but it would be good if they get motivated to not just police others, but stick to the rules as well.

A little bit of honesty sometimes can go a long way ... just another black spot on Volker's spotty vest ...

iceman
02-02-2021, 02:57 AM
I have ended up with quite a bit of SAN in recent months so particularly disappointing they seem to be breaking the rules in a such a blatant way.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/124112897/seafood-firm-could-lose-20m-vessel-after-trawling-in-protected-area

Lack of education for the skipper or just greed?

Not lack of education. This is a highly experienced skipper and no excuse for this in my view. Worst of all, not even a slap on the wrist for him from SAN.

On a different issue, I was critical on this thread when SAN bought the San Granit a couple of years ago, basically an old heap of ****e despite the glowing commentary from management.
The vessel has continued to be an absolute disaster for the company with extremely poor catches compared to similar Talley's or Sealord's vessels, terrible accidents onboard and ongoing huge expenditure of money to try to fix it. All to no avail.
I have heard that they are now about to go into a major refit of the vessel with a budget of $12-13 million.
This is completely nuts. They've spent more money on this very poorly performing vessel than it is worth.

Marilyn Munroe
02-02-2021, 08:21 AM
million.
This is completely nuts. They've spent more money on this very poorly performing vessel than it is worth.

Does the hull insurance cover barratry by shareholders? If so shareholders could bribe a school of sardines to ram the vessel and sink it.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

ratkin
02-02-2021, 02:34 PM
Bottom trawling never a good idea, especially when hiding it from shareholders (footnote on page 134 of annual report)

Just finishing watching a great series on British TV about trawlerman from my hometown in Cornwall. There are so many head winds in the industry that it seems virtually impossible to make a dollar without breaking some regulation or other.

The situations is only going to deteriorate as focus on creatures moves from catching them to preserving them.

Sideshow Bob
02-02-2021, 03:19 PM
Update on San Waitaki Sentencing - NZX, New Zealand’s Exchange (https://www.nzx.com/announcements/367018)

Update on San Waitaki Sentencing2/2/2021, 2:01 pm GENERAL2 February 2021
NZX Continuous Disclosure
Update on San Waitaki Sentencing
Sanford wishes to update the market in respect of the current court case in which Sanford has pleaded guilty to the charges of bottom trawling in a BPA (Benthic Protected Area), noting that the judgement is still pending.
In our Integrated Report for the year ended 30 September 2020, this matter was disclosed on page 30 (see the online version) and additionally described in the Contingent Liability note 21, (page 134), which reads:
“The company has entered a guilty plea to three representative charges of the San Waitaki vessel found to be bottom trawling in a benthic protection area. Sentencing is now expected in 2021. Aside from the fine, which is covered by insurance, the offence also carries potential forfeiture of the vessel and the related catch. The company believes there is a strong argument in support of ”special reasons” justifying non- forfeiture of the vessel and catch, which is a matter for the Court to determine. The Directors have concluded, based on legal advice, that there is no requirement to recognise a liability for the forfeiture of the vessel and catch at balance date”.
Fishing by our vessel in this area was unintentional. In the time since these incidents we have put new processes and technology in place to prevent something like this happening again. We have developed and applied a robust method of electronic geo-fencing which will sound an alert on board a vessel if it should stray close to the boundary of any BPA.
The vessel is currently bonded back to us whilst the matter is considered by the courts. We respect the court process and will provide more information as soon as that process allows.
For further information, please contact:
Fiona MacMillan
GM Corporate Communications

Monarch
02-02-2021, 06:40 PM
I guess we will have to hope the judge is feeling lenient. Poor Peter is going to have his work cut out for him it seems. This ship has sunk like a stone since the day I bought in and it would be nice to see some good news for once :rolleyes:.

ralph
02-02-2021, 09:43 PM
I guess we will have to hope the judge is feeling lenient. Poor Peter is going to have his work cut out for him it seems. This ship has sunk like a stone since the day I bought in and it would be nice to see some good news for once :rolleyes:.
The indications are good for the ship to set sail again with a new admiral particularly in a industry that is based on quotas ,and these are going out of fashion

Monarch
02-02-2021, 10:15 PM
The indications are good for the ship to set sail again with a new admiral particularly in a industry that is based on quotas ,and these are going out of fashion
Hopefully he accelerates the expansion of the aquaculture side of the business. A govt buyout of quota could be a great way to finance some new salmon farms :cool:

iceman
02-02-2021, 10:45 PM
Hopefully he accelerates the expansion of the aquaculture side of the business. A govt buyout of quota could be a great way to finance some new salmon farms :cool:

I know we have a Government willing to get involved in all sorts of stuff rather than let private businesses do it but can not see them buying fishing quota anytime soon and sincerely hope it will never happen !!
Aquaculture will never replace wild fisheries and is equally risky.

ralph
03-02-2021, 03:25 PM
https://whatsoninvers.nz/sanfords-consent-for-five-small-salmon-farms/
New forms of aqua culture are the way to go to feed the worlds appetite for seafood apart from just keep raising the prices for the wealthy .

iceman
04-02-2021, 06:50 AM
https://whatsoninvers.nz/sanfords-consent-for-five-small-salmon-farms/
New forms of aqua culture are the way to go to feed the worlds appetite for seafood apart from just keep raising the prices for the wealthy .

No question aquaculture is an increasingly important part of seafood protein supply to the World in the future and so is wild fish harvesting.

Ricky-bobby
04-02-2021, 07:06 AM
The new CEO doesn’t excite me. Farmlands haven’t returned anything to shareholders for the past 3 seasons... have just bumbling along with no direction

iceman
04-02-2021, 07:08 AM
Spoke to a person in the industry yesterday that told me that some of the big fishing companies have up to 20% of their frozen product ready for shipment in recent weeks, sitting in refrigerated containers in storage due to lack of shipping options. That will be chewing into the profit margins !

Aaron
04-02-2021, 10:57 AM
Sanfords stock on hand jumped $36,910,000 from $48,558,000 to $85,468,000. $85mill of fish is a lot of freezer space, I hope it has all been sold by now. I guess the $85nill is at cost so using the 2020 margin of 17.6% retail it is $103,723mill or 22% of the 2020 turnover.

Sanford might get worse before it gets better, depends on their marketing department and supply chains. At least they aren't selling quota, I hope. Haven't heard of any plan to nationalise the quota, although as a shareholder in Sanford I would be dead against this idea but as a NZer wouldn't it make more sense for the nation to own the quota and lease it to the private companies to fish. Then the country as a whole gets something for the resource extraction.

iceman
04-02-2021, 01:41 PM
Sanfords stock on hand jumped $36,910,000 from $48,558,000 to $85,468,000. $85mill of fish is a lot of freezer space, I hope it has all been sold by now. I guess the $85nill is at cost so using the 2020 margin of 17.6% retail it is $103,723mill or 22% of the 2020 turnover.

Sanford might get worse before it gets better, depends on their marketing department and supply chains. At least they aren't selling quota, I hope. Haven't heard of any plan to nationalise the quota, although as a shareholder in Sanford I would be dead against this idea but as a NZer wouldn't it make more sense for the nation to own the quota and lease it to the private companies to fish. Then the country as a whole gets something for the resource extraction.

Aaron me old positive mate :-) Sadly, SAN has been selling quota, both in NZ & Tasmania. Silly as far as I'm concerned.

You as a shareholder in SAN and a taxpayer in NZ, are a winner. SAN's quota does not give them an ownership of the resource, it only gives them a permission to harvest a certain percentage of it in the form of an ACE https://www.mpi.govt.nz/fishing-aquaculture/commercial-fishing/operating-as-a-commercial-fisher/commercial-fishing-annual-catch-entitlement/

To make it even bette for you as a tax payer, you receive a significant amount from SAN every year in the form of
:
https://www.mpi.govt.nz/fishing-aquaculture/commercial-fishing/operating-as-a-commercial-fisher/fisheries-and-conservation-services-levies/

Aaron
04-02-2021, 02:49 PM
Thanks Iceman, although the levies only cover the cost to manage the quota and fisheries conservation so they are paying for their govt mandated monopoly on fishing. Still can't understand why you would sell quota, I should go to an AGM and ask what possible reason they have for selling it.

Still holding my shares I am still hoping the share price will continue to fall. I am near my original buy in price which I thought was expensive at the time with a 7% yield. Not a growth company but the 2020 result was to Sept 2020 so pretty much covered the entire lock down. If trading returns to normal over the next couple of years it might justify the current price but not prices it was at. Possibly should have sold out at the top if I had known it was a top. Taking my covid hits with this company but may buy more if the price continues down further.

The loss of a $20million dollar boat would wipe out the 2020 profit.

Ferg
10-02-2021, 11:20 AM
Just pasting this here being the non-paywalled version of the Sanford mussel export issue in its Havelock facility:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124194728/sanford-and-sealord-hit-by-chinese-trade-suspension
(credit to mondograss in the ATM thread)

Do we know any more details about this issue? Was it something like a lack of masks by workers? I'm speculating but am curious.

Balance
10-02-2021, 11:26 AM
Poor ole Sanford seems to be getting into a fair bit of strife currently?

One bad news after another.

Ferg
10-02-2021, 11:32 AM
For sure Balance. That's why I'm curious to know more. Was it a case of overzealous auditors, something open to differing interpretations or poor management? Some might say 'bad luck' but one tends to make their own luck.

Aaron
10-02-2021, 12:40 PM
Just pasting this here being the non-paywalled version of the Sanford mussel export issue in its Havelock facility:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124194728/sanford-and-sealord-hit-by-chinese-trade-suspension
(credit to mondograss in the ATM thread)

Do we know any more details about this issue? Was it something like a lack of masks by workers? I'm speculating but am curious.

Audit was in January so previously posted wild speculation by me was total bu**shirt. Have edited out previous post as I was embarrasing myself.

Baa_Baa
23-02-2021, 02:20 PM
Ouch, forfeit the $20m vessel and $36k fine (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/124331611/seafood-firm-loses-20m-vessel-after-trawling-in-protected-area). Bad day huh!

Aaron
23-02-2021, 02:27 PM
Ouch, forfeit the $20m vessel and $36k fine (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/124331611/seafood-firm-loses-20m-vessel-after-trawling-in-protected-area). Bad day huh!

Doesn't seem to have affected the share price much. Maybe this has already been factored into people's calculations. Upset as a shareholder but no point in having rules/reserves unless someone is going to police and enforce them. I bet Sanfords don't do it twice.

Any further news re Chinese audit?

winner69
23-02-2021, 02:30 PM
Ouch, forfeit the $20m vessel and $36k fine (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/124331611/seafood-firm-loses-20m-vessel-after-trawling-in-protected-area). Bad day huh!

A few weeks ago they said - The Directors have concluded, based on legal advice, that there is no requirement to recognise a liability for the forfeiture of the vessel and catch at balance date”.

Fine covered by insurance they say - that seems morally wrong

Beagle
23-02-2021, 02:40 PM
A few weeks ago they said - The Directors have concluded, based on legal advice, that there is no requirement to recognise a liability for the forfeiture of the vessel and catch at balance date”.

Fine covered by insurance they say - that seems morally wrong

They might say that but you have to wonder if the Insurance company will agree to such a claim given the accuracy of modern GPS systems which will tell you within a few meters where you are fishing. At very best this is gross recklessness....more likely deliberate in which case the insurance company might tell them to get stuffed and refuse to pay out.

Wonder what Iceman makes of this ? My guess is the directors are in for a rude shock when they try and make their claim.

Sideshow Bob
23-02-2021, 02:55 PM
The full announcement......

Further update on San Waitaki ruling23/2/2021, 3:41 pm GENERAL23 February 2021
NZX Continuous Disclosure
Further update on San Waitaki ruling, judgement received today.
Sanford Limited (NZX:SAN) wishes to advise that it has received today the judgement of Judge S J O’Driscoll in the Christchurch District Court in the case of Ministry for Primary Industries v Walker, Lash and Sanford Limited.
Sanford accepts the decision of the court and has expressed its deep regret for the incident, which was entirely unintentional.
The judge has handed down a $36,000 fine for Sanford and has confirmed the forfeiture of the San Waitaki. Sanford will be making an application for relief from forfeiture and, based on legal advice, it is optimistic it will be granted without reaching materiality thresholds. We will work constructively to expeditiously address the matter of forfeiture. In the meantime, Sanford will work with MPI to ensure the vessel remains operational until the matter is resolved.
Benthic protection areas (BPA) are areas of seabed in New Zealand where some fishing activity is illegal. Sanford supported the introduction of these areas in New Zealand and, despite the mistakes which led to this case, we respect these areas and are advocates for marine protection.
In 1997, Sanford was part of New Zealand’s Deepwater Group which voluntarily closed an area of water in the South Island to allow fish stocks to rebuild. Then in 2007, while the wider area was still closed, MPI established a small marine protection area inside it, creating a BPA. In 2017, the wider area reopened, allowing fishing to occur, but not in the small BPA. The BPA area was not showing on electronic charts that the San Waitaki was using when the infringement occurred.
Sanford is deeply committed to sustainability in all its operations. As the court accepted, the incidents which led to this prosecution were not deliberate in any way. The court heard that Sanford had “an exemplary record” and since these incidents, we have put newly developed technology in place to minimise the risk of any fishing in a protected area.
We will provide more information as soon as the process allows.

Zaphod
23-02-2021, 03:28 PM
The seizure of a $20m vessel does seem disproportionate to the damage caused by the incident, however I am not surprised given how some of our extended family members were dealt with by MPI for taking two paua at the edge of a reserve, so I am not surprised. It is a pity that other criminal offences were not dealt with in such a strict manner.

Balance
23-02-2021, 03:44 PM
The seizure of a $20m vessel does seem disproportionate to the damage caused by the incident, however I am not surprised given how some of our extended family members were dealt with by MPI for taking two paua at the edge of a reserve, so I am not surprised. It is a pity that other criminal offences were not dealt with in such a strict manner.

Different treatment if it was Sealord.

winner69
23-02-2021, 04:04 PM
Different treatment if it was Sealord.

It’s who you know eh Balance

iceman
24-02-2021, 10:19 AM
Different treatment if it was Sealord.

Sealord had a similar punishment a couple of years ago. I think this judgement is too lenient. I don't buy any of the excuses SAN used to defend it. The vessel will be immediately bonded back to them to continue operations and then they will pay the MPI redemption fee, probably around $80-100k and get the vessel back. Add the $36k fine so in total SAN will get a real fine of $120-140k and have the vessel back in their fleet and operating as before, except outside the MPAs, hopefully. I'm surprised the Captain is still in his job.

BlackPeter
24-02-2021, 12:23 PM
Sealord had a similar punishment a couple of years ago. I think this judgement is too lenient. I don't buy any of the excuses SAN used to defend it. The vessel will be immediately bonded back to them to continue operations and then they will pay the MPI redemption fee, probably around $80-100k and get the vessel back. Add the $36k fine so in total SAN will get a real fine of $120-140k and have the vessel back in their fleet and operating as before, except outside the MPAs, hopefully. I'm surprised the Captain is still in his job.

Is it clear that it was the captains fault? The companies explanation sounds more like a database error where somebody removed accidentally the geofencing of a smaller area which was part of a larger area where the geofencing was (correctly) removed? Could be an issue with whoever is responsible for maintaining the data base (like an operators error) - or it even could be a software issue.

These things do happen.

If latter is the case than I'd say that our laws are quite ridiculous with the punishment completely out of proportion to the offence.

iceman
24-02-2021, 03:53 PM
Is it clear that it was the captains fault? The companies explanation sounds more like a database error where somebody removed accidentally the geofencing of a smaller area which was part of a larger area where the geofencing was (correctly) removed? Could be an issue with whoever is responsible for maintaining the data base (like an operators error) - or it even could be a software issue.

These things do happen.

If latter is the case than I'd say that our laws are quite ridiculous with the punishment completely out of proportion to the offence.

It should be absolutely known to both the company and Captain where the MPAs are. These things are well published and talked about in the industry and the Captain has a responsibility to ensure the restrictions are followed. I've just had a MPA imposed where I am fishing and we just simply put the coordinates on our plotters ourselves, no "geofencing" or whatever fancy words they use.
Remember this happened 2 years in a row for the San Waitaki.

Beagle
24-02-2021, 03:59 PM
It should be absolutely known to both the company and Captain where the MPAs are. These things are well published and talked about in the industry and the Captain has a responsibility to ensure the restrictions are followed. I've just had a MPA imposed where I am fishing and we just simply put the coordinates on our plotters ourselves, no "geofencing" or whatever fancy words they use.
Remember this happened 2 years in a row for the San Waitaki.

Last time I used a decent Raymarine GPS plotter it was accurate to within 10 meters, Hmmm

RTM
24-02-2021, 04:11 PM
Last time I used a decent Raymarine GPS plotter it was accurate to within 10 meters, Hmmm

You’re average phone is more than capable of being that accurate.

BlackPeter
26-02-2021, 11:12 AM
CFO bought a modest parcel - calling the bottom?:

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/368292/341359.pdf

winner69
26-02-2021, 11:33 AM
CFO bought a modest parcel - calling the bottom?:

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/368292/341359.pdf

Maybe - being a Fonterror graduate she prob a good judge when things are going to turn around

BlackPeter
26-02-2021, 11:37 AM
Maybe - being a Fonterror graduate she prob a good judge when things are going to turn around

I can't remember - did Leon buy any shares? This would have hurt ...

Aaron
26-02-2021, 01:02 PM
I looked at the first post on this thread back in 2004 support at $4.70 hasn't moved much since then.

Not sure if the CFO buying shares is a sign of the bottom the board chair bought some in November which proved a bit early.
$22,500 worth of shares for someone on a $200,000 plus salary sounds more like dabbling than a strong conviction.

BP have you bought shares in SAN lately by any chance ???

BlackPeter
26-02-2021, 01:07 PM
I looked at the first post on this thread back in 2004 support at $4.70 hasn't moved much since then.

Not sure if the CFO buying shares is a sign of the bottom the board chair bought some in November which proved a bit early.
$22,500 worth of shares for someone on a $200,000 plus salary sounds more like dabbling than a strong conviction.

BP have you bought shares in SAN lately by any chance ???

Must admit, I did. Not a huge parcel, but part of my agricultural portfolio. Historically Sanford shares are good value when bought under the MA400 - and hey, they are a good bit under the MA400 these days, aren't they?

Aaron
26-02-2021, 01:21 PM
Must admit, I did. Not a huge parcel, but part of my agricultural portfolio. Historically Sanford shares are good value when bought under the MA400 - and hey, they are a good bit under the MA400 these days, aren't they?

WELL STOP TALKING THEM UP AGAIN, I pulled my bid this morning after seeing the S&P500 down over 2% last night, hoping for a bit of a panic drop. So close but not moving down any further today. Maybe I should just meet the market instead of rue what might have been. I would have thought of this as a dividend company (although currently a 0% yield), share price fluctuations shouldn't worry you. Although that said a 50% decline over the last little while has been interesting to watch.

My hoped for parcel is about the same as the CFO but I would bet that it forms a much larger percentage of my portfolio.

Aaron
26-02-2021, 01:56 PM
F**k it, if $4.50 is good enough for the CFO to dabble I can invest at $4.51. Thanks for the push BP now I can concentrate on work again instead of constantly checking the price.

BlackPeter
26-02-2021, 02:35 PM
WELL STOP TALKING THEM UP AGAIN, I pulled my bid this morning after seeing the S&P500 down over 2% last night, hoping for a bit of a panic drop. So close but not moving down any further today. Maybe I should just meet the market instead of rue what might have been. I would have thought of this as a dividend company (although currently a 0% yield), share price fluctuations shouldn't worry you. Although that said a 50% decline over the last little while has been interesting to watch.

My hoped for parcel is about the same as the CFO but I would bet that it forms a much larger percentage of my portfolio.

Sorry - you should have told me.

They are a terrible company with diminishing returns and - hey who wants to eat high quality fish anyway?

This better?

Aaron
26-02-2021, 04:59 PM
Sorry - you should have told me.

They are a terrible company with diminishing returns and - hey who wants to eat high quality fish anyway?

This better?

Much appreciated, although a little late.

I bought at $4.51 roughly. Original bid was $4.41 and looks like this was nearly reached at the close.

Scrunch
26-02-2021, 05:55 PM
Sorry - you should have told me.

They are a terrible company with diminishing returns and - hey who wants to eat high quality fish anyway?

This better?

Well if we were talking about NZ King Salmon, the answer would appear to be pets. I thought NZK were aiming for a premium product, but tucked away on page 12 of the investor presentation with the half year report was:

Sales to China have decreased through the pandemic
• Sales to this market continue to be affected by global challenges.
• Sales are not expected to increase during this period.
• Petfood sales (not shown) growing strongly.

bull....
11-04-2021, 02:29 PM
anybody who hasnt watched seaspiracy on netflix is missing a good doco on the seafood industry. surely sanford or the other fish companies in nz dont pratice some of the stuff they say overseas operators do?

iceman
11-04-2021, 05:11 PM
anybody who hasnt watched seaspiracy on netflix is missing a good doco on the seafood industry. surely sanford or the other fish companies in nz dont pratice some of the stuff they say overseas operators do?

I haven't managed to watch it but according to my sources and chats I've had & seen about it, it is most certainly not "a good doco", at least not if you're interested in facts. Here is a link you may find interesting from a well respected scientist.
https://sustainablefisheries-uw.org/ray-hilborn-on-seaspiracy/?fbclid=IwAR1-SIX0NZnx0rOmGK5LdZ45OPxdfn685tbJXVvjxknbNcyODOJQ6U 1gR-0

The NZ fishing industry can be proud of what they do but will always strive to do better, like all industries should.

ziptie
11-04-2021, 08:48 PM
The fishing in New Zealand is no where near sustainable, its all geared in favour of the big boys and their foreign charter vessels and crews oh and the Maori cashing in their Lease fees. All Perpetuating the lie that it is sustainable.

Catching seasons for the likes of Orange Roughy and many other “seasonal” fish generally take place during “the spawn” ie when the fish a Biologically coded to be procreating. Swimming slowly and in shallower waters.

The stages of the catching season are distinguished by cutting them open and checking what state the roe is in / at

Tell me how a fishery is “sustainable” by catching a species when it is at its most vulnerable trying to create the next generation.


.

iceman
11-04-2021, 08:56 PM
The fishing in New Zealand is no where near sustainable, its all geared in favour of the big boys and their foreign charter vessels and crews oh and the Maori cashing in their Lease fees. All Perpetuating the lie that it is sustainable.

Catching seasons for the likes of Orange Roughy and many other generally take place during “the spawn” ie when the fish a Biologically coded to be procreating. Swimming slowly and in shallower waters.

The stages of the catching season are distinguished by cutting them open and checking what state the roe is in / at

Tell me how a fishery is “sustainable” by catching a species when it is at its most vulnerable trying to create the next generation.

.

This comment is simply not factual. Old & out of date stereotyping. The orange roughy stocks you refer to were indeed overfished but the industry reacted and changed some 15-20 years ago, resulting in a steady rise in biomass and a healthy stock. Natural causes have much more effect on stocks than fishing in NZ.

ziptie
11-04-2021, 09:03 PM
So you are telling me they Don’t target the likes of roughy when it is most Vulnerable and congregating in the shallower waters?

bull....
12-04-2021, 07:03 AM
I haven't managed to watch it but according to my sources and chats I've had & seen about it, it is most certainly not "a good doco", at least not if you're interested in facts. Here is a link you may find interesting from a well respected scientist.
https://sustainablefisheries-uw.org/ray-hilborn-on-seaspiracy/?fbclid=IwAR1-SIX0NZnx0rOmGK5LdZ45OPxdfn685tbJXVvjxknbNcyODOJQ6U 1gR-0

The NZ fishing industry can be proud of what they do but will always strive to do better, like all industries should.

that video you presented offers an opinion with no facts to back it up. As for you suggesting I have an agenda what a load of rubbish i was presenting the suggestion for discussion.

My personal opinion is fishing is a sunset industry , just like agriculture except in a niche capacity for the more well off people. Im not a vegan but a realist.

I do believe also the world is over fished and stocks are in decline which will lead to fish wars and more poaching in foreign waters

Jaa
12-04-2021, 12:58 PM
I haven't managed to watch it but according to my sources and chats I've had & seen about it, it is most certainly not "a good doco", at least not if you're interested in facts. Here is a link you may find interesting from a well respected scientist.
https://sustainablefisheries-uw.org/ray-hilborn-on-seaspiracy/?fbclid=IwAR1-SIX0NZnx0rOmGK5LdZ45OPxdfn685tbJXVvjxknbNcyODOJQ6U 1gR-0

The NZ fishing industry can be proud of what they do but will always strive to do better, like all industries should.

I also found Mr Hilborn's video to not be credible. No facts presented just lots of name calling about vegan activists. Sure they can be annoying but stick to the issues. Fishing has had a lot of problems for a long time including in NZ.

As for Seapiracy, its having an impact, few people have bought it up to me and said they will eat less/no fish.

BlackPeter
04-05-2021, 08:26 AM
Amazing - one year ago Sanford share peaked at $7.38 and analysts thought that this must be one of the best shares in the universe (they offered still in April 2020 a BUY recommendation with 9.17 out of 10) - i.e. they thought that the at that stage already quite dear share will keep on rocketing upwards.

One year later ... Share price dropped to $4.58 (I guess this will teach us to follow analyst recommendations, won't it?) and analyst recommendation today is only "HOLD" (5/10).

Just wondering - given that analysts got it so wrong a year ago, what is their current pessimism telling us?

In my view is Sanford one of the companies which will gain from a drop in Covid numbers ... and many of Sanford's target markets make huge progress in immunizing their population. Upmarket restaurants in the US and in Europe and in Asia likely to open up again over the coming 3 to 6 months.

Maybe Sanford is at current prices really a buy? - only time will tell.

Discl: Bought some and thinking about accumulating more.

peat
04-05-2021, 09:51 AM
hey BP
I dont follow it too closely but do recall something about really old boats that were gonna need money or they'd become unreliable etc.... something for someone who is considering accumulating to investigate I suggest.
not much to love in that chart either but I agree with the thinking re demand. Perhaps King Salmon could be another beneficiary of that if you want to keep it fishy.

BlackPeter
04-05-2021, 10:30 AM
hey BP
I dont follow it too closely but do recall something about really old boats that were gonna need money or they'd become unreliable etc.... something for someone who is considering accumulating to investigate I suggest.
not much to love in that chart either but I agree with the thinking re demand. Perhaps King Salmon could be another beneficiary of that if you want to keep it fishy.

Well, yes - they made some mistakes. Don't think that their fleet is currently in too bad shape, though we still don't know what happens with the boat forfeited to the crown.

I guess the question is how the new CEO will run the ship ... hopefully a case of new brooms sweep clean ... but obviously - he might as well find some more skeletons in this process. Maybe a case to wait for the next update ...

Overall - while I was no fan of their prior CEO (and didn't hold during that time) ... I always thought that they have a lot of experience in their ranks. I do think the company does have value - question is whether they now have the right crew and captain to realize it?

iceman
04-05-2021, 10:59 AM
hey BP
I dont follow it too closely but do recall something about really old boats that were gonna need money or they'd become unreliable etc.... something for someone who is considering accumulating to investigate I suggest.
not much to love in that chart either but I agree with the thinking re demand. Perhaps King Salmon could be another beneficiary of that if you want to keep it fishy.

The 35 year old (from memory) Granit that they bought from Norway about 3 years ago, an old heap of crap and has been an utter disaster for SAN, is currently undergoing a big refit that I believe is costing $ 12 million. Just to try to get it up to scratch. They could have built a new boat for what they've spent on this vessel, which is still an old and outdated vessel.
Another smaller one bought from Canada never passed safety regulations and was quietly scuppered, never catching a fish.

Agree with BP that hopefully the new CEO will make the necessary changes but until I see a proof of it, I will be staying out of this one.

ralph
04-05-2021, 12:18 PM
I was talking today with one of the operatives/sailors in the south Island Timaru based whom has been on leave for over 4 months due to the refit & he was very upbeat about the future ,telling me nothing goes to waste all the guts etc will now go in to a newly installed plant to make into pet food all the skins go to the Chinese for health food products /potions and looking forward to setting out in a couple of weeks .
I also think this once covid ravaged stock will rise again

iceman
04-05-2021, 05:36 PM
I was talking today with one of the operatives/sailors in the south Island Timaru based whom has been on leave for over 4 months due to the refit & he was very upbeat about the future ,telling me nothing goes to waste all the guts etc will now go in to a newly installed plant to make into pet food all the skins go to the Chinese for health food products /potions and looking forward to setting out in a couple of weeks .
I also think this once covid ravaged stock will rise again

All pretty standard today. The fact remains that SAN now has a very old boat that now owes them over $60m (my estimate) and has a resale value a fraction of that. This whole episode has been disastrous for SAN both in huge costs and very poor performance.

ralph
04-05-2021, 09:42 PM
Appreciate your estimate Iceman noted ,I did not go into that much detail with the contact but as I was indicating he was very impressed with the refit and the future potential of the fishing there after .
It has been a disastrously sp covid situation for San agreed ,will be interesting to see what the new ceo brings in!!

Balance
12-05-2021, 08:31 AM
Thought I would have a closer look at Sanford as a post covid recovery stock but a contact (customer of Sanford and other seafood companies) said Sanford's freezers are full of unsold catch & harvest so the worse is not over yet.

iceman
12-05-2021, 09:47 AM
A great and much needed addition to the Board:

SAN
12/05/2021 08:30
ADMIN
NOT PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0830 HRS Sanford Limited (NS)

ADMIN: SAN: Appointment of Director

12 May 2021

NZX Continuous Disclosure

Mark Cairns Announced as Newest Board Member for Sanford Limited

New Zealand's largest seafood company Sanford Limited (NZX: SAN) is delighted
to announce the appointment of Mark Cairns as an additional member of its
board of directors, bringing the company's total number of directors to
seven.

He will join the Sanford's board effective 1 July 2021.

Sanford Chair Sir Rob McLeod says he is delighted Mr Cairns will be joining
the Sanford board and believes "Mark is a highly talented person with the
track record, experience and skills that will strongly complement the Sanford
board and add significant value to the company".

Mr Cairns is currently CEO at Ports of Tauranga, but is due to retire from
this position on 30 June 2021. He is also a director of Meridian Energy,
Northport Limited, CODA Group Limited and Quality Marshalling Limited and
recently joined the board of Freightways Ltd. Before joining Ports of
Tauranga, he was Chief Executive of C3 Limited (formerly Toll Owens Limited)
for five years.

Mr McLeod believes that "Marks' interest in becoming a Sanford director
reflects extremely well on Sanford as Mark is a widely respected CEO in New
Zealand due to the results and performance of Port of Tauranga under Mark's
leadership".

Mr Cairns said he was attracted to Sanford because of its strong industry
leadership in sustainable fishing.

"As a passionate fisherman and diver, I admire Sanford's focus on enabling
healthy oceans and protecting and enhancing the environment. It is a company
with a rich heritage and exciting future and I'm looking forward to the
opportunity to contribute."

Mark has a First Class Honours Degree in Civil Engineering from University of
Auckland, a degree in Business Studies and a Master of Management from Massey
University. He is a Fellow of Engineering New Zealand and a Chartered Member
of the Institute of Directors. In 2019, Mark received the prestigious
Caldwell Partners Leadership Award from the Institute of Finance
Professionals.

Mark is considered by the Board to be an Independent Director.

Sir Robert McLeod
Chairman
End CA:00372033 For:SAN Type:ADMIN Time:2021-05-12 08:30:27

Sideshow Bob
12-05-2021, 09:49 AM
Thought I would have a closer look at Sanford as a post covid recovery stock but a contact (customer of Sanford and other seafood companies) said Sanford's freezers are full of unsold catch & harvest so the worse is not over yet.

Expect may not be so much a sales issue.....more of a shipping/logistics problem. All exporters are suffering with delays, lack of capacity, lack of empty containers, price increases and the like.

Nothing is going on time, nothing arrives on time. And you are right, worst isn't over yet.

We got an email from a carrier earlier in the week, that for a certain route, there was a rate increase of $1,000 USD for general containers, $2,000 USD for reefers.

Why?? Because they can. And exporters have got almost no choice, with coldstores at capacity.

When I say problem, I should say complete mega-omni-clusterf***

Sideshow Bob
12-05-2021, 09:51 AM
Well that could be a timely board appointment, with some logistics experience.....

Balance
12-05-2021, 09:52 AM
Expect may not be so much a sales issue.....more of a shipping/logistics problem. All exporters are suffering with delays, lack of capacity, lack of empty containers, price increases and the like.

Nothing is going on time, nothing arrives on time. And you are right, worst isn't over yet.

We got an email from a carrier earlier in the week, that for a certain route, there was a rate increase of $1,000 USD for general containers, $2,000 USD for reefers.

Why?? Because they can. And exporters have got almost no choice, with coldstores at capacity.

When I say problem, I should say complete mega-omni-clusterf***

Good infor, thanks.

IAK
12-05-2021, 02:38 PM
Agree. Good appointment.

BlackPeter
21-05-2021, 09:07 AM
Half year results are out: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/372538

No big surprises (as per March forecast) - but indications that some green shoots are showing after the Covid winter; Demand and prices start to grow again (admittedly starting from a low base).

No divie, though.

Aaron
21-05-2021, 11:32 AM
A company struggling to make a profit let alone pay shareholders a dividend. Hope the coolstores sold were surplus to requirements otherwise we are just seeing assets sold to keep things going. Stock on hand value largely unchanged since balance date.
Operating cashflow down 37% on the same period 12 months earlier.

Maybe I am a glass half empty sort of a guy after all.

Mussels struggling, this was the focus of the previous CEO while selling quota.

iceman
21-05-2021, 05:06 PM
A company struggling to make a profit let alone pay shareholders a dividend. Hope the coolstores sold were surplus to requirements otherwise we are just seeing assets sold to keep things going. Stock on hand value largely unchanged since balance date.
Operating cashflow down 37% on the same period 12 months earlier.

Maybe I am a glass half empty sort of a guy after all.

Mussels struggling, this was the focus of the previous CEO while selling quota.

Agree Aaron. Most of the half year profit is from surplus asset sales, very little from operations. Times are tough with COVID effects around the World but Sanford's issues are far beyond that. I hope the new CEO gets cracking. Lots to do.

porkandpuha
21-05-2021, 07:54 PM
A company struggling to make a profit let alone pay shareholders a dividend. Hope the coolstores sold were surplus to requirements otherwise we are just seeing assets sold to keep things going. Stock on hand value largely unchanged since balance date.
Operating cashflow down 37% on the same period 12 months earlier.

Maybe I am a glass half empty sort of a guy after all.

Mussels struggling, this was the focus of the previous CEO while selling quota.

Interesting that they report a 4% drop in inventory levels based on the products market value, while also suggesting there has been a change in stored commodities from salmon to mussels. I am going to roughly say salmon is at least double the price of mussels which would lead me to think that in pure tonnage, the inventory level in weight has increased significantly? NZ producers are struggling to find frozen storage space and as trade backs up the storage prices are going through the roof. Not only does your mussel lose value while sitting there deteriorating, but the cost to produce and store it is now doubling down on the shrinking margins.

Page 6 of the report states "We have no aged inventory concerns" but the export mussel trade is dead. The commodity value doesn't justify paying the high rates for air and sea freight so no overseas markets are buying them. This mussel business may become a problem in the near future.

BlackPeter
05-06-2021, 10:57 AM
Chart signals starting to brighten up a bit: SP crossed the MA100 (after a long time below) and seems now to stick above, while RSI is still in sensible territory. Low trading volumes, though.

12579

Early days, I know, but hey - maybe the world as we know it is not ending after all and people start to buy premium seafood again :).

Monarch
05-06-2021, 12:15 PM
San might have slightly better luck selling their salmon domestically going forward with NZK having difficulties with warm water once again. Probably better margins not having to airfreight to other countries. Hopefully mussels start performing again soon, keeping my eye on the monthly export statistics.

porkandpuha
05-06-2021, 02:28 PM
San might have slightly better luck selling their salmon domestically going forward with NZK having difficulties with warm water once again. Probably better margins not having to airfreight to other countries. Hopefully mussels start performing again soon, keeping my eye on the monthly export statistics.

NZK also increasing the pricing on their customers. Possibly more overseas markets now buying from SAN and giving them a greater market share in the near future..

Sideshow Bob
06-06-2021, 11:52 AM
San might have slightly better luck selling their salmon domestically going forward with NZK having difficulties with warm water once again. Probably better margins not having to airfreight to other countries. Hopefully mussels start performing again soon, keeping my eye on the monthly export statistics.

Airfreight to many destinations is about the same cost as pre-Covid - much of it subsidized through the Govt airfreight scheme.

porkandpuha
06-06-2021, 12:58 PM
Airfreight to many destinations is about the same cost as pre-Covid - much of it subsidized through the Govt airfreight scheme.

No its not... The freight rates to USA for example are still 75% higher than they were pre covid, even on the sudsidized flights.

Sideshow Bob
06-06-2021, 04:10 PM
No its not... The freight rates to USA for example are still 75% higher than they were pre covid, even on the sudsidized flights.

Not what my employer is paying. Albeit we are smaller/fairly irregular to the US.

HK, China etc all still same price pre-Covid.

Europe huge increase on pre-Covid.

porkandpuha
06-06-2021, 05:17 PM
Not what my employer is paying. Albeit we are smaller/fairly irregular to the US.

HK, China etc all still same price pre-Covid.

Europe huge increase on pre-Covid.

My job day in and day out is to sell air rates. Top of my head there are no airlines or destinations that are at pre covid freight levels yet. HKG is getting close but even the heavily subsidized MoT routes need inflated rates to make a flight financially viable. The subsidy doesn't even cover the missing revenue from what would have been passenger sales. We won't get to pre covid levels until bums are back on seats.

FPH May 27:
• In gross margin, freight costs are likely to remain elevated, and air freight a higher proportion of freight.

SAN May 21:
Container shortages and shipping disruptions have seen space constrained and freight prices rise significantly. Our supply chain costs have risen overall by 12% on a cost per tonne basis, mainly due to airfreight costs.

NZK April 30:
We anticipate our average price will return to pre-Covid levels around June, but margins will still be affected by higher freight and distribution costs. With the freight situation unlikely to improve for the foreseeable future, we will be reviewing our pricing around the middle of the calendar year to recover some of these ongoing costs.

Sideshow Bob
06-06-2021, 08:50 PM
My job day in and day out is to sell air rates. Top of my head there are no airlines or destinations that are at pre covid freight levels yet. HKG is getting close but even the heavily subsidized MoT routes need inflated rates to make a flight financially viable. The subsidy doesn't even cover the missing revenue from what would have been passenger sales. We won't get to pre covid levels until bums are back on seats.

FPH May 27:
• In gross margin, freight costs are likely to remain elevated, and air freight a higher proportion of freight.

SAN May 21:
Container shortages and shipping disruptions have seen space constrained and freight prices rise significantly. Our supply chain costs have risen overall by 12% on a cost per tonne basis, mainly due to airfreight costs.

NZK April 30:
We anticipate our average price will return to pre-Covid levels around June, but margins will still be affected by higher freight and distribution costs. With the freight situation unlikely to improve for the foreseeable future, we will be reviewing our pricing around the middle of the calendar year to recover some of these ongoing costs.

Thanks for the info. We are relatively irregular, high value, low volume and our rates don’t really seem to have changed. May be paying too much to start with!

Until recently we found seafreight costs were also largely unchanged. Now a bit of price gouging going on. Service and capacity also an issue.

winner69
31-08-2021, 07:47 AM
An unquantified tale of woe and misery

But the Balance Sheet remains robust

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/378220/353593.pdf

iceman
31-08-2021, 08:13 AM
An unquantified tale of woe and misery

But the Balance Sheet remains robust

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/378220/353593.pdf

This will continue until they seriously tidy up their fleet & processing operations to make them 21st century compatible and much more efficient. I'm hearing the SanCore project will cost significantly more than $9.6m.
Discl: not holding and not interested ATM

BlackPeter
31-08-2021, 08:13 AM
An unquantified tale of woe and misery

But the Balance Sheet remains robust

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/378220/353593.pdf

Sure - and they talk as well about early indications of green shoots all over the place - and hey, 2% revenue growth on last year (though not sure, whether this is overall revenue or just the wildcatch) ... some other companies would use that to justify being a growth company, wouldn't they?

Just wondering, what happened with this vessel they lost earlier in the year to Ministry of fishing due to their geofencing gear not working or wrongly programmed (though I think Iceman said it was just that the captain had a problem between the ears)? ... have we heard anything what happend with this vessel? Maybe the Ministry of Fishing is now competing against Sanford and lost it in some No fishing zone?

Balance
31-08-2021, 08:15 AM
An unquantified tale of woe and misery

But the Balance Sheet remains robust

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/378220/353593.pdf

Oh well, there's always the AGM in Dec to look forward to.

Can always count upon a polystyrene packed sample of green lipped mussels!

iceman
31-08-2021, 08:17 AM
Sure - and they talk as well about early indications of green shoots all over the place - and hey, 2% revenue growth on last year (though not sure, whether this is overall revenue or just the wildcatch) ... some other companies would use that to justify being a growth company, wouldn't they?

Just wondering, what happened with this vessel they lost earlier in the year to Ministry of fishing due to their geofencing gear not working or wrongly programmed (though I think Iceman said it was just that the captain had a problem between the ears)? ... have we heard anything what happend with this vessel? Maybe the Ministry of Fishing is now competing against Sanford and lost it in some No fishing zone?

The vessel has continued fishing for SAN. The issue is still in the court system and unresolved at this time.

BlackPeter
31-08-2021, 08:25 AM
The vessel has continued fishing for SAN. The issue is still in the court system and unresolved at this time.

Cheers - interesting.

Do you know about any precedence cases to get a feeling for how this might end (best case / worst case scenario)?

iceman
31-08-2021, 08:31 AM
Cheers - interesting.

Do you know about any precedence cases to get a feeling for how this might end (best case / worst case scenario)?

Happened to Sealord last year https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122237611/sealord-fined-24000-and-ordered-to-forfeit-vessel-for-trawling-in-protected-zone
I can not remember how much they paid to "buy" the vessel back. A few hundred thousand $ from memory !!!!

Sideshow Bob
31-08-2021, 08:41 AM
Oh well, there's always the AGM in Dec to look forward to.

Can always count upon a polystyrene packed sample of green lipped mussels!

Got to take whatever divvies come along..... ;)

DDog
01-09-2021, 09:08 AM
Boom Ngai Tahu $5.50

iceman
01-09-2021, 09:15 AM
I have been expecting Talley's to make a takeover play for this badly managed company and clean it up. But no, Ngai Tahu has decided they can make a difference

SAN
01/09/2021 09:52
GENERAL
PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0952 HRS Sanford Limited (NS)

GENERAL: SAN: Ngai Tahu Investments Limited Share Purchasing

1 September 2021
NZX Continuous Disclosure

Sanford has been informed by Ngai Tahu Investments Limited that, via its
broker Craigs Investment Partners, it is looking to purchase shares in
Sanford at a price $5.50 (representing a premium of 23.6% to the closing
price on 31 August 2021), such that it (and its associates) will hold a
significant minority shareholding. We are informed that Ngai Tahu
Investments Limited has no current intention to make a takeover offer for
Sanford based on current circumstances.

dreamcatcher
01-09-2021, 09:21 AM
I have been expecting Talley's to make a takeover play for this badly managed company and clean it up. But no, Ngai Tahu has decided they can make a difference

SAN
01/09/2021 09:52
GENERAL
PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0952 HRS Sanford Limited (NS)

GENERAL: SAN: Ngai Tahu Investments Limited Share Purchasing

1 September 2021
NZX Continuous Disclosure

Sanford has been informed by Ngai Tahu Investments Limited that, via its
broker Craigs Investment Partners, it is looking to purchase shares in
Sanford at a price $5.50 (representing a premium of 23.6% to the closing
price on 31 August 2021), such that it (and its associates) will hold a
significant minority shareholding. We are informed that Ngai Tahu
Investments Limited has no current intention to make a takeover offer for
Sanford based on current circumstances.


Great an instant SP rise .........bought in yesterday

Getty
01-09-2021, 09:28 AM
The sharks have been trawling the share register.

About time they out musselled the roughies and fish heads, and put someone else in their plaice.

Rawz
01-09-2021, 09:29 AM
Great an instant SP rise .........bought in yesterday

Nice one. Don't you love it when that happens. Seems of late when I buy into a company the share price drops haha

percy
01-09-2021, 09:30 AM
The sharks have been trawling the share register.

About time they out musselled the roughies and fish heads, and put someone else in their plaice.

Great choice of words.

ralph
01-09-2021, 09:35 AM
Boom Ngai Tahu $5.50
That's what I love about shares just when you think this is never gone get back until covid ends something like this comes along out of the Blue to turn things on its ead

iceman
01-09-2021, 11:10 AM
That's what I love about shares just when you think this is never gone get back until covid ends something like this comes along out of the Blue to turn things on its ead

The business hasn't changed though. Ngai Tahu has no or very little experience in running a company like SAN. But lets hope for the sake of SH and the industry that somehow they can make the overdue and necessary changes. It remains to be seen and will be a long hard road.

ralph
01-09-2021, 11:16 AM
No of course not ,but ngai tahu do have a more long term Interest in kiwi based company's & have experience in making money ,hopefully more changes to come .

Monarch
01-09-2021, 11:30 AM
The business hasn't changed though. Ngai Tahu has no or very little experience in running a company like SAN. But lets hope for the sake of SH and the industry that somehow they can make the overdue and necessary changes. It remains to be seen and will be a long hard road.

Before the pandemic they were making good profits and growing revenue, yet you speak about SAN like it is a sinking ship? Do you think it will struggle to recover or do you think current/future management choices will destroy shareholder value? I've seen past posts of yours relating to concerns about the scampi boats, but this doesn't seem to me as significant enough to throw SAN in the dog box.

The way I see it, wild catch will become a smaller and smaller portion of SAN's revenue, being replaced largely by growing salmon division income. Salmon has been relatively solid performer even during COVID times, and I think management will see it is an obvious place to deploy investment capital.
The lack of parasites and good water quality available in NZ offers advantage over other salmon producers, albeit offset by large distance from most export destinations. Global fish consumption trends offer a supportive tailwind, compounded by overfishing in most parts of the world (more relevant to wild catch). As for Ngai Tahu, surely it cant hurt having tangata whenua as significant shareholders?

Interested to know your thoughts.

iceman
01-09-2021, 12:05 PM
Before the pandemic they were making good profits and growing revenue, yet you speak about SAN like it is a sinking ship? Do you think it will struggle to recover or do you think current/future management choices will destroy shareholder value? I've seen past posts of yours relating to concerns about the scampi boats, but this doesn't seem to me as significant enough to throw SAN in the dog box.

The way I see it, wild catch will become a smaller and smaller portion of SAN's revenue, being replaced largely by growing salmon division income. Salmon has been relatively solid performer even during COVID times, and I think management will see it is an obvious place to deploy investment capital.
The lack of parasites and good water quality available in NZ offers advantage over other salmon producers, albeit offset by large distance from most export destinations. Global fish consumption trends offer a supportive tailwind, compounded by overfishing in most parts of the world (more relevant to wild catch). As for Ngai Tahu, surely it cant hurt having tangata whenua as significant shareholders?

Interested to know your thoughts.

I do not agree they were “making good profits” before the pandemic. The profits have been poor for a long time whether you look at return on assets or return on employed capital.

In my view the company has made some very bad and expensive (tens of millions) choices in the last few years. To name some, 2 terrible and very expensive choices on vessels, selling great quota assets in Tasmania & NZ and creating a management culture where operational performance takes the backseat to excessive focus on OSH and other issues.

Whether we think wild catch will become smaller & smaller or not, that is where a lot of their expensive assets are employed. They will always be a significant part of the business and need to provide a decent return. Currently they’re not.

Tangata Whenua or not is of no importance to me. A new broom that knows what they’re doing and can make the changes needed, is of much more interest to me. Ngai Tahu may well be that broom. Only time will tell.
I know I’ve spoken up in this forum about my disquiet of SAN. I have done so because it frustrates me to see it's lacklustre performance and bad decision making, with assets that should be a goldmine

iceman
01-09-2021, 05:13 PM
A substantial sell down from the Goodfellow family according to an announcement this arvo.

tommy_d
01-09-2021, 08:09 PM
No of course not ,but ngai tahu do have a more long term Interest in kiwi based company's & have experience in making money ,hopefully more changes to come .
remember that beekeeping business Ngai Tahu bought, Watson and Son? didn't they lose $70million in that business last year? something like that. They aren't always blessed with robust due diligence...

Muzz1234
01-09-2021, 09:56 PM
I believe owner or owners who sold them the honey business overstated number of hives had may have been something else dodgy done as well

Aaron
02-09-2021, 08:18 AM
A substantial sell down from the Goodfellow family according to an announcement this arvo.

I wonder if they don't see a great future for Sanford? haven't they been a major shareholder for a long time?

I would not thought Ngai Tahu buying a minority shareholding would mean any major change in the company's operations. They see value but their time horizon will be longer than mine.

Selling quota was the last CEO who departed suddenly without much fanfare. His focus was on mussels and fresh fish direct to restaurants wasn't it? Both hit hard by covid while fish was getting stacked up in the freezer so not even a focus on marketing really, nor production. My knowledge is limited so I am probably being very unfair to him, but even as an ignoramus his decision to sell quota seemed concerning.

The new CEO has only been there since January this year so you haven't given him much of a chance as most of the decisions you are concerned about would have happened under the previous CEO.

ralph
02-09-2021, 08:26 AM
The manuka goldrush yeah a lot of folks got burned another kiwi special being an Apiarist I could see it a coming and why so many reasons for it so many(do not want to highjack this thread ).
Strange I think its a lot of hype like A2, but I also am a comvita shareholder doing good with that.
But N T will be moving in to Sanford & the Amalgamated Goodfellas that let them in know that they will be looking forwards & see this as part of their movement to kiwi /iwi Investments ,I would not be surprised to see them Increase their holding soon, plus wild catch & green lipped mussels (a moat around this) & ngai tahu fisheries will be the future imho, not so much Salmon

Balance
02-09-2021, 08:44 AM
I wonder if they don't see a great future for Sanford? haven't they been a major shareholder for a long time?

I would not thought Ngai Tahu buying a minority shareholding would mean any major change in the company's operations. They see value but their time horizon will be longer than mine.

Selling quota was the last CEO who departed suddenly without much fanfare. His focus was on mussels and fresh fish direct to restaurants wasn't it? Both hit hard by covid while fish was getting stacked up in the freezer so not even a focus on marketing really, nor production. My knowledge is limited so I am probably being very unfair to him, but even as an ignoramus his decision to sell quota seemed concerning.

The new CEO has only been there since January this year so you haven't given him much of a chance as most of the decisions you are concerned about would have happened under the previous CEO.

Goodfellow family used to totally control Sanford with their 44.5% stake. Death of the patriarch however cut the sentimental tie to the business and the family has been selling down its stake for a while.

So out goes Goodfellow and in comes Ngai Tahu with a lot of sentimental & emotional ties there with the fishing industry via Maori preferential access to all seafood resources & Sealord.

iceman
02-09-2021, 09:09 AM
I wonder if they don't see a great future for Sanford? haven't they been a major shareholder for a long time?

I would not thought Ngai Tahu buying a minority shareholding would mean any major change in the company's operations. They see value but their time horizon will be longer than mine.

Selling quota was the last CEO who departed suddenly without much fanfare. His focus was on mussels and fresh fish direct to restaurants wasn't it? Both hit hard by covid while fish was getting stacked up in the freezer so not even a focus on marketing really, nor production. My knowledge is limited so I am probably being very unfair to him, but even as an ignoramus his decision to sell quota seemed concerning.

The new CEO has only been there since January this year so you haven't given him much of a chance as most of the decisions you are concerned about would have happened under the previous CEO.

I thought I had been clear in my criticism. I talked of the last few years so thought it was obvious I was not laying the blame with the new CEO who only started on April 6. Since then the CFO has resigned.
I believe many of the concerning decisions and management culture lies squarely with the Board.

Balance
02-09-2021, 09:22 AM
Looks like Ngai Tahu has got its strategic stake and will make its board intentions clear soon enough.

Better part of just under 400,000 shares ($5.15 to $5.40) on the offer side looking for a home - beggars belief that the sellers did not take the opportunity yesterday to bail out. Who is going to buy their shares now except the institutions who shorted the stock yesterday.

iceman
23-09-2021, 08:47 AM
On the face of it, this looks like a good appointment:

SAN
23/09/2021 08:31
ADMIN
NOT PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0831 HRS Sanford Limited (NS)

ADMIN: SAN: Appointment of Chief Financial Officer

23 September, 2021

NZX Continuous Disclosure

Sanford Announces Appointment of Chief Financial Officer, Paul Alston

Sanford Limited (NZX: SAN) has appointed a new Chief Financial Officer, Paul
Alston, former Chief Executive Officer of Cavalier Corporation.

Mr Alston replaces outgoing CFO Katherine Turner who ends her tenure on 30
September.

Sanford CEO Peter Reidie says "we are delighted to announce that Paul will be
joining us as CFO. He is a highly experienced listed company executive who
will bring great capability and leadership to Sanford. His background
includes CEO and CFO roles at Cavalier Corporation and Turners and Growers,
two significant New Zealand businesses."

Mr Alston's experience also includes several years in Europe at J P Morgan
and Deutsche Bank. He says he is excited to join a company he sees as a New
Zealand icon.

"I believe that Sanford has a bright future and is well positioned for
success and sustainable growth. We need to feed the world in a sustainable
fashion and Sanford is well placed to meet that need."

Mr Alston will start at Sanford in mid-October.

BlackPeter
23-09-2021, 09:29 AM
On the face of it, this looks like a good appointment:

SAN
23/09/2021 08:31
ADMIN
NOT PRICE SENSITIVE
REL: 0831 HRS Sanford Limited (NS)

ADMIN: SAN: Appointment of Chief Financial Officer

23 September, 2021

NZX Continuous Disclosure

Sanford Announces Appointment of Chief Financial Officer, Paul Alston

Sanford Limited (NZX: SAN) has appointed a new Chief Financial Officer, Paul
Alston, former Chief Executive Officer of Cavalier Corporation.

Mr Alston replaces outgoing CFO Katherine Turner who ends her tenure on 30
September.

Sanford CEO Peter Reidie says "we are delighted to announce that Paul will be
joining us as CFO. He is a highly experienced listed company executive who
will bring great capability and leadership to Sanford. His background
includes CEO and CFO roles at Cavalier Corporation and Turners and Growers,
two significant New Zealand businesses."

Mr Alston's experience also includes several years in Europe at J P Morgan
and Deutsche Bank. He says he is excited to join a company he sees as a New
Zealand icon.

"I believe that Sanford has a bright future and is well positioned for
success and sustainable growth. We need to feed the world in a sustainable
fashion and Sanford is well placed to meet that need."

Mr Alston will start at Sanford in mid-October.

Interesting - but not quite sure I could decide based solely on the published info, whether he is a good appointment for Sanford.

I guess having both Cavalier as well as Deutsche Bank as previous employers in the CV might well be a mixed blessing (both companies had not just some highs but as well plenty of self inflicted lows), though obviously he could have been the one trying to stem the rot on the way down :) ;

Agree however - the 6 and a half years he worked as CFO at Turners & Growers probably gave him a quite useful background for his new position ... and the period demonstrates as well some stamina.

Do you know more about him (you can share) than the announcement says?

iceman
23-09-2021, 01:29 PM
$500,000 fine and reparation after death on Sanford fishing vessel
23 September 2021
The death of a crew member on the factory fishing vessel, San Granit, has led to fishing company, Sanford Limited, being fined $375,000, and ordered to pay $121,860 reparations to family and $35,000 costs by the Timaru District Court.
Sanford pleaded guilty to one charge under the Health and Safety at Work Act of exposing workers to risk of death or serious injury, and the Court has now released its reserved decision.
Maritime NZ Investigations Manager, Pete Dwen, said the tragedy occurred in November 2018 when Steffan Stewart became caught in machinery in the ship’s automated freezer system for processing fish.
“The need for machine guards to protect workers is a well-known issue on ships,” Mr Dwen said.
When Sanford bought San Granit in 2016 it had an “at sea safety report” done to identify risks on board and what could be done to fix them.
Dangers in the automated freezer system were identified as “high risk”.
However, it was not until Mr Stewart’s death two years after the report that Sanford spent $450,000 making critical changes, including introducing an automatic shutdown system and revising its standard operating procedure (SOP) for clearing blockages.
The incident occurred shortly after 3.45am when Mr Stewart entered part of the automated freezer system to clear a blockage. When the system activated he became caught and was fatally injured by moving parts of the system.
On most voyages, the foreman or factory manager was to review the SOP with the freezer man. There are no records of this review kept by Sanford.
Judge A.A. Couch said in his decision that having a written SOP at the time of the incident was of little value in practice because Sanford did not monitor compliance and management was either unaware or unconcerned that the procedures were not being followed.
Workers had developed their own work-arounds to clear blockages, including not calling designated personnel as required.In addition, the cage around part of the system was not always locked. This meant workers could enter the caged area to clear a blockage without the system being turned off.
The factory supervisor checked workers every hour. However, the factory supervisor on Mr Stewart’s shift was unfamiliar with the automated freezer system and therefore limited in their ability to monitor and provide the supervision necessary to help keep workers safe.
They were also unaware of Sanford’s fatigue management policy – San Granit’s factory operated 24/7 when the ship was fishing.
Maritime NZ’s investigation found that Sanford could have guarded machinery in the automated freezer system so blockages could be cleared without exposing workers to moving parts, the SOP was poorly worded and confusing, and monitoring and supervision of workers’ safety was inadequate.
“It is positive that all these changes have now been made by Sanford. However, it is critical all employers consider carefully machine guarding equipment, processes, monitoring and supervision to avoid it taking a death or serious injury to learn these lessons,” Mr Dwen said.

BlackPeter
23-09-2021, 04:14 PM
$500,000 fine and reparation after death on Sanford fishing vessel
23 September 2021
The death of a crew member on the factory fishing vessel, San Granit, has led to fishing company, Sanford Limited, being fined $375,000, and ordered to pay $121,860 reparations to family and $35,000 costs by the Timaru District Court.
Sanford pleaded guilty to one charge under the Health and Safety at Work Act of exposing workers to risk of death or serious injury, and the Court has now released its reserved decision.
Maritime NZ Investigations Manager, Pete Dwen, said the tragedy occurred in November 2018 when Steffan Stewart became caught in machinery in the ship’s automated freezer system for processing fish.
“The need for machine guards to protect workers is a well-known issue on ships,” Mr Dwen said.
When Sanford bought San Granit in 2016 it had an “at sea safety report” done to identify risks on board and what could be done to fix them.
Dangers in the automated freezer system were identified as “high risk”.
However, it was not until Mr Stewart’s death two years after the report that Sanford spent $450,000 making critical changes, including introducing an automatic shutdown system and revising its standard operating procedure (SOP) for clearing blockages.
The incident occurred shortly after 3.45am when Mr Stewart entered part of the automated freezer system to clear a blockage. When the system activated he became caught and was fatally injured by moving parts of the system.
On most voyages, the foreman or factory manager was to review the SOP with the freezer man. There are no records of this review kept by Sanford.
Judge A.A. Couch said in his decision that having a written SOP at the time of the incident was of little value in practice because Sanford did not monitor compliance and management was either unaware or unconcerned that the procedures were not being followed.
Workers had developed their own work-arounds to clear blockages, including not calling designated personnel as required.In addition, the cage around part of the system was not always locked. This meant workers could enter the caged area to clear a blockage without the system being turned off.
The factory supervisor checked workers every hour. However, the factory supervisor on Mr Stewart’s shift was unfamiliar with the automated freezer system and therefore limited in their ability to monitor and provide the supervision necessary to help keep workers safe.
They were also unaware of Sanford’s fatigue management policy – San Granit’s factory operated 24/7 when the ship was fishing.
Maritime NZ’s investigation found that Sanford could have guarded machinery in the automated freezer system so blockages could be cleared without exposing workers to moving parts, the SOP was poorly worded and confusing, and monitoring and supervision of workers’ safety was inadequate.
“It is positive that all these changes have now been made by Sanford. However, it is critical all employers consider carefully machine guarding equipment, processes, monitoring and supervision to avoid it taking a death or serious injury to learn these lessons,” Mr Dwen said.

Hmm - I guess the previous CEO (Volker Kuntzsch) is unlikely to add this judgement to his CV. It clearly shows how little the company cared under his watch about heath and safety and quality. They say the fish always stinks from the head.

Lets hope things are now better - shareholders are always the last group of stakeholders to learn about things like that (Pike River springs to mind ...) - pretty sure the workers knew.

iceman
23-09-2021, 07:15 PM
Hmm - I guess the previous CEO (Volker Kuntzsch) is unlikely to add this judgement to his CV. It clearly shows how little the company cared under his watch about heath and safety and quality. They say the fish always stinks from the head.

Lets hope things are now better - shareholders are always the last group of stakeholders to learn about things like that (Pike River springs to mind ...) - pretty sure the workers knew.

Sadly this is one of the negatives about buying +30 year old vessels. Safety issues back then were not as high a priority as they are now and equipment surroundings much more dangerous. In this very sad case, it came at a terrible cost.

ralph
24-09-2021, 12:40 PM
There should be an improvement in Profits Once the increased snapper quota kicks in !:mellow:

iceman
20-10-2021, 06:23 AM
Sanford goes for mandatory vaccinations for seagoing crew https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/126726025/sanford-makes-covid19-vaccination-compulsory-for-fishing-crews

iceman
05-11-2021, 01:48 PM
The exodus continues. I don't think this is bad for SAN. Mr Chia was hired by the previous CEO as CFO and was well qualified for that. It was a mistake to then move him to COO with zero operational experience in the industry

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/382276

dreamcatcher
11-11-2021, 08:58 AM
New jobs expected

Sanford eyeing extension in Southland, new jobs expected | Stuff.co.nz (https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/aquaculture/126942646/sanford-eyeing-extension-in-southland-new-jobs-expected)

Ferg
18-11-2021, 12:14 PM
Annual results announced today: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/383038

I haven't been through the numbers in detail but it sounds like things are turning a corner. Volumes are up, excess inventories have been cleared (with what should be a temporary impact on margin), export shipping contracts have been secured and it is intended the dividend will be reinstated at some unstated point.

iceman
18-11-2021, 01:03 PM
Annual results announced today: https://www.nzx.com/announcements/383038

I haven't been through the numbers in detail but it sounds like things are turning a corner. Volumes are up, excess inventories have been cleared (with what should be a temporary impact on margin), export shipping contracts have been secured and it is intended the dividend will be reinstated at some unstated point.

Poor numbers as expected. The blurb is a bit disappointing in my view. Prices on most fish products, including hoki fillet block, have been very strong for most of this year. Hopefully the new CEO and the yet to be announced new COO, will set this badly listing ship right next year. It is a big job and lots to do.

Great to see them join the Kotahi freight consortium lead by Fonterra & Silver Fern Farms

Waikaka
18-11-2021, 08:21 PM
200 page annual report......

I skipped to the end to get away from the glossy pictures and into the numbers but nearly gave up at page 199 of the pdf where there is a recipe for "Sri Lankan Blue Codfish curry"

But then I watched the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyyz0uP5kDc

and suspect some poor word processing person got to page 199 of the report and pushed for a nice round page 200 and now I am feeling a lot better about the hours it is going to take me to unpack this report.

ronaldson
18-11-2021, 09:32 PM
Market stood up well enough today given the result. Ngai Tahu cornerstone shareholding is a positive in my view but it may take a while for their acquisition price of $5.50 to be matched by on-market trades. However was trading around $4.50 before that action, but should hold above that level now.

Ngai Tahu play the long game and I wouldn't be surprised if one day they take a majority or even a 100% stake. Indeed, there may be something to be said for the majority of NZ sea-catch quota being aggregated Fonterra style, at least for management and product marketing purposes, and maori stakeholding in the industry is high already.

iceman
19-11-2021, 03:14 AM
200 page annual report......

I skipped to the end to get away from the glossy pictures and into the numbers but nearly gave up at page 199 of the pdf where there is a recipe for "Sri Lankan Blue Codfish curry"

But then I watched the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyyz0uP5kDc

and suspect some poor word processing person got to page 199 of the report and pushed for a nice round page 200 and now I am feeling a lot better about the hours it is going to take me to unpack this report.

Archie is a long termer, has been there for 3 months. That is longer than the CEO, CFO and yet to be appointed COO ;)

BlackPeter
19-11-2021, 10:53 AM
Poor numbers as expected. The blurb is a bit disappointing in my view. Prices on most fish products, including hoki fillet block, have been very strong for most of this year. Hopefully the new CEO and the yet to be announced new COO, will set this badly listing ship right next year. It is a big job and lots to do.

Great to see them join the Kotahi freight consortium lead by Fonterra & Silver Fern Farms

Well, revenue a bit better than I thought, earnings a bit lower. On the other hand ... it is probably fair to assume that this was the worst year to come - and hey, they are still profitable - i.e. it could be worse :);

While prices have been not too bad ... the cost for getting their products to the customer have been horrendous - and this should improve!

I agree lots of work to fix some of the underlying issues, but I am cautiously optimistic :):

kiora
12-12-2021, 05:02 AM
"However, the $4.18 billion fishing industry is strongly urging the Government to reject the petition. It estimates 90 per cent of the catch, for both inshore and deep sea fisheries, comes from bottom trawling.

Collin Williams is Sanford’s general manager of fishing, and has almost four decades in the sector, including a decade in compliance at the then-Ministry of Fisheries.

Close to 94 per cent of the company’s catch is bottom-trawled. And there is no alternative to net the type of fish in demand from consumers, the ingredients in our freezer favourites like fish fingers."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/127234341/trawling-for-the-truth--why-new-zealands-main-method-of-fishing-is-so-controversial

ralph
12-12-2021, 04:47 PM
How on earth do stuff .co . n z give fools like that the time of day desperate for stories again . Lets all eat tofu

iceman
12-12-2021, 04:54 PM
How on earth do stuff .co . n z give fools like that the time of day desperate for stories again . Lets all eat tofu

Sadly that's all Stuff do these days. A totally discredited media

ralph
14-12-2021, 06:00 AM
Big jump late last night in the S P anyone know why ! just as the fishing season started in the ross sea probably overSeas money /markets

RTM
17-12-2021, 11:55 AM
My wife started buying some nice salmon recently...NewWorld...about $12.00 per pack.
Nice.

We looked at the origin...Norwegian Fiords...or something like that.
How they hell can they substantially under cut the price of NZ fish ? Thought the freight...presume air..,,would kill it.

Marilyn Munroe
17-12-2021, 05:25 PM
My wife started buying some nice salmon recently...NewWorld...about $12.00 per pack.
Nice.

We looked at the origin...Norwegian Fiords...or something like that.
How they hell can they substantially under cut the price of NZ fish ? Thought the freight...presume air..,,would kill it.

The Norwegian Government has plenty of oil and gas revenue which it uses to subsidize the marine farming industry.

The current New Zealand Government doesn't have much oil and gas revenue to spend because of ideological reasons, plus it also regards salmon as a decadent bourgeois food nibbled by toffs.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

visionary
20-12-2021, 01:08 PM
Is anyone else getting an error when attempting to attend the virtual AGM via the link on the announcement dated 26/Oct? Not that impressed by this, I am getting an error, reload. Click reload button, error again.

visionary
20-12-2021, 01:26 PM
I have given up, I have not been able to log in to the meeting with Computershare - this means I have been unable to vote. Hopefully someone from Sandford or the registry reads this, it would be ideal of all shareholders could view the presentations and participate in the voting - this is now one of my few NZX shares I still hold, because the system is not as transparent as the ASX. Cheers.

Sideshow Bob
20-12-2021, 01:41 PM
I have given up, I have not been able to log in to the meeting with Computershare - this means I have been unable to vote. Hopefully someone from Sandford or the registry reads this, it would be ideal of all shareholders could view the presentations and participate in the voting - this is now one of my few NZX shares I still hold, because the system is not as transparent as the ASX. Cheers.

CEO Presentation - TITLE (nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com) (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/385053/362021.pdf)

Chairmans Presentation - TITLE (nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com) (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/385052/362005.pdf)

visionary
20-12-2021, 02:39 PM
CEO Presentation - TITLE (nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com) (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/385053/362021.pdf)

Chairmans Presentation - TITLE (nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com) (http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/SAN/385052/362005.pdf)

Thank you good sir - I had seen these, the voting was the main purpose of watching the live AGM - it is the only way to vote from what I could tell.

iceman
20-12-2021, 08:43 PM
Thank you good sir - I had seen these, the voting was the main purpose of watching the live AGM - it is the only way to vote from what I could tell.

That sounds bad, that you were unable to do this. The other way to vote is to give the Chasirman or the Shareholder´s Association your proxies. Something to keeep in mind in the future. I´ve given the SA permanent proxies for all my NZX holdings. If I find that I don´t like their voting intentions for a particular AGM, then I just revoke it online. Easy as :-)

Southern Lad
20-12-2021, 10:19 PM
The AGM voting results show a massive 36.46% of participating votes against the reappointment of Abigail Foote. Anyone know the back story?

Sideshow Bob
21-12-2021, 07:22 AM
The AGM voting results show a massive 36.46% of participating votes against the reappointment of Abigail Foote. Anyone know the back story?

No idea but recently became KMD director, and holds a number of other positions.

Kathmandu Holdings welcomes new independent director Abby Foote to team - Ragtrader (https://www.ragtrader.com.au/news/kathmandu-holdings-welcomes-new-independent-director-abby-foote-to-team)