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troyvdh
01-08-2008, 10:40 AM
Phaedrus.I came across this the other day.

Do you rate it ..as it applies to perhaps the NZ OZ indices.

Cheers TI TROY


By Rudi Filapek-Vandyck, editor FNArena

This may seem like an odd thing to say but what we are witnessing on international equity markets is the preparation for the next bull market. I am not making this statement for the sake of finding someting positive to say; this month the Coppock Indicator has fallen below zero, indicating the next bull market lies ahead of us.

I realise that most of you will have never heard of this indicator. That's not so strange given the Coppock Indicator is rather seldom used and referred to. This is not because it's unreliable, or too exotic -in fact the Coppock Indicator has a solid reputation- it's just that this particular indicator was originally designed to help long term investors in deciding when to step into the share market; it signals when a new bull market is being established and as such, as everyone will understand, this indicator only becomes useful every six years or so.

The last time the Coppock Indicator signalled the birth of a new bull market was in May 2003 - we all know now that was when the commodities driven uptrend of the past four years found its origin. The second last time was in 1995: back then Australia was climbing out of the doldrums of the "recession we had to have" and banks were at the early stages of what would ultimately become a golden era for the financial sector.

Though the Coppock Indicator was originally designed for the US share market, at the time of its original inception in the 1960s, it has been successfully applied to many other share market indices, like the All Ordinaries index in Australia, with technical analysts finding the indicator has withstood the challenge of backtesting data up to 100 years into history.

If you look at the chart below you'll see the indicator also successfully flagged the previous steep bull market from 1982-1987. Since then the Coppock Indicator has successfully flagged the next wave up five more times and only the share market movement between 1988 and 1989 appears a bit "wishy washy" (though still accurate).

As I said above, the indicator has now started to signal the next sustainable uptrend is coming. It will be number seven since 1982.





So how does this indicator work?

The Coppock Indicator, which is also referred to as the "Coppock Curve" and the "Coppock Guide", was first published in 1962 in Barron's. It was developed by economist Edwin Sedgwick Coppock who at the time had been asked by the Episcopal Church to develop a tool for longer term oriented investors. As the story goes, Coppock thought share market downturns were comparable to bereavements and thus a natural period of mourning was required. (I am not making any of this up).

According to the legend, Coppock asked the church bishops how long do people usually mourn? Their answer was 11 to 14 months and so he used those periods in his calculation. Without going too much into detail, the Indicator is specifically designed for longer term signals (Coppock originally used monthly periods for his base calculations), it has a solid reputation for not confusing the next bear market rally with the start of a new sustainable uptrend, and as said above, it tends to pick the correct signals for when a new bull market is being established.

Others have finetuned the original setup; UK magazine Investors Chronicle developed its own modified version which generates Sell signals as well as long term Buy signals, but it is widely recognised the Coppock Indicator is best used to pinpoint the next sustainable uptrend in the share market.

A Buy signal is generated when the indicator falls below zero, reaches a bottom and subsequently starts trending upwards again. By then you are likely to have missed out on the early gains in the share market (two to three months), as the Indicator takes its time to establish whether we have something sustainable in place, but at least you know it's genuine, and not the next bear market trap.

So where are we now according to this Indicator? Well, as I said above, the Indicator has turned negative this month, for the first time since 2002, not only for the All Ordinaries but also for the main indices in the US, Japan and the UK. But investors better not get excited just yet; last time it took 11 months before the Indicator gave a Buy signal after it first fell below zero (July 2002-May 2003), but in 1995 and in 1992 it only took 5 months.

It's probably fair to say we are still months away from the Indicator's next Buy signal, but at least we know it's coming (as opposed to between December last year and June this year).

Personally, I always try to match these Indicators with the fundamental picture and the likely news flow ahead. Maybe it is no coincidence the Coppock Indicator only fell below zero in July; the global finance sector is likely to generate many more negative events, as will the slowing of global economic growth. At some point most of the negative news will truly have come out, and the worst of the worst will have been priced into equity markets and into securities analysts forecasts - I suspect that soon after all this has happened the Indicator will start trending upward again.





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duncan macgregor
01-08-2008, 11:26 AM
TROYDVH, From my own simplistic knowledge of indicators and there worth as guides to future investment decissions i dont rate it any higher or lower than most. I look on the market as a swinging pendulum that swings to far in both directions ruled by market sentiment. My indicators are looking for the reason that sends the herd to far in a given direction.
Once i establish what is a likely reason looking forward, i then expect the herd to either behave like lemmings, or join the gold rush.
Common sense, PE ratios,or a companies real worth will all fall by the wayside during the herds stampede. It really depends on which direction the herd is running as to what indicators will work. Mathematical indicators work in some markets, but not in others, there is no mathematical formula, or magic button to press that beats good old fashioned common sense.
My common sense told me that America must go under sooner rather than later dragging our market down and causing global economic turmoil. I got out the market expecting a downtrend leading up to a crash. You can only chart the markets progress after the event even although it gives the indication of where it is heading.
The charts all indicate a downtrending market, with a few dead cat bounces along the way, but common sense will tell you the crash is comming. Macdunk

troyvdh
01-08-2008, 11:53 AM
Thanks DC.I largely agree...there is no rocket science involved.

You say "a crash is coming",me thinks we are sort of in the middle of one right now.I could be wrong but isn't it unlikely that we will witness huge one day drops....havent "they" been banished by market regulators et al.

I have stated this before but do you remember some years ago the Economist (yes that outfit who once predicted $5 a barrel (oil)) who predicted that a "global housing slump" would be far more destructive than a share mkt collapse given that more folk borrow to buy houses than shares.

To make it worse it appears that globally houses prices have peaked together.

troyvdh
01-08-2008, 12:15 PM
Sorry folks...I boobed...its Coppock...not Pollock....gee I am pillick.

AMR
01-08-2008, 12:18 PM
Not too familiar with this particular indicator, but it sounds like a long-term momentum/rate of change indicator. Colin Twiggs of IC says "It's accurate but late."

I fail to see how it provides an advantage over say, a long term moving average indicator or Mr P's trend following methods.

Phaedrus
01-08-2008, 12:45 PM
"This month the Coppock Indicator has fallen below zero, indicating the next bull market lies ahead of us" The next bull market always lies ahead of us!

"The Coppock Indicator...... tends to pick the correct signals for when a new bull market is being established."
Ummm - not quite. Take a look at the chart and you will see that it is usually some months before the signal, by which time the bull market is clearly underway. But, as the man says "at least you know it's genuine, and not the next bear market trap... But investors better not get excited just yet; last time it took 11 months before the Indicator gave a Buy signal after it first fell below zero... It's probably fair to say we are still months away from the Indicator's next Buy signal, but at least we know it's coming".
So is Christmas - and we don't know which will come first.

In NZ, the Coppock Indicator went below zero on 15/4/08, but as we have seen, the "Buy" signal can come anything from 2 - 12 months or more after this point.

The Coppock Indicator is a Momentum oscillator designed to do just one thing - Signal when risk-averse long-term conservative investors can safely re-enter the market after a significant reversal. The signals lag the market somewhat, but the advantage is that they are highly reliable.

http://h1.ripway.com/Phaedrus/Coppock.gif

This indicator would be perfect for extremely conservative, very pessimistic investors who were badly burnt by the slide and consequently are now quite apprehensive about getting back into the market. People like....... MacDunk!

duncan macgregor
01-08-2008, 12:54 PM
Coming out after the event then saying this worked or that didnt is not much use to anyone. Most indicators rely on guesswork which some times work with the mathematical average being the judge of how good or bad the prediction might be. If you consistently beat the market average with all the safety measures in place which in its self will detract from your performance, then the indicaters you follow are good.
The point is you dont make hay in stormy weather. Investing is similar, when the sun comes out get in boots and all. One of my indicators is the 30 day moving average, i never buy a share trading under that. Running a tight stop loss at the start, allowing only when in profit to allow a bit of slack made me more money than it cost me. There is no magic button to press, or mathematical formula that beats common sense. Macdunk

Hoop
01-08-2008, 02:30 PM
Troy
A few months ago when Iread up about it as a very reliable indicator, I naturally assumed I had found that magic bullet for the end of the Bear's life
i decided to do a test drive...I downloaded the Incredible Charts charting software (http://www.incrediblecharts.com/) and tracked each days progress from 1987 to the present ...I found it very disapointing... as the indicator lags so much that the uptrend is well under way, also a short/medium down trend may be in progress when the indicator is triggered.
Must admit it looks good on Phadreus chart but using it from the present day, onwards and waiting for the indicator upturn on a day to day basis I found it inpractical.


Try it out for yourself, you will see what I mean.

Lizard
01-08-2008, 03:50 PM
In NZ, the Coppock Indicator went below zero on 15/4/08, but as we have seen, the "Buy" signal can come anything from 2 - 12 months or more after this point.


I presume you are meaning that it hasn't yet shown any sign of turning after 2.5 months?

Phaedrus
01-08-2008, 09:42 PM
Exactly.

http://h1.ripway.com/Phaedrus/CoppockNZ.gif

Major von Tempsky
02-08-2008, 09:00 AM
Shouldn't this topic be on the Investment Strategies Board rather than Off-Market Discussions?
Although given the totally non-scientific nature of chart reading perhaps we need a new board for Horoscopes, Ouija Boards, Chicken Entrail Reading and Charting.
Warren Buffett, the richest man in the world, is quoted than he doesn't use charting, nor has anyone who has become seriously rich...

AMR
02-08-2008, 10:13 AM
Shouldn't this topic be on the Investment Strategies Board rather than Off-Market Discussions?
Although given the totally non-scientific nature of chart reading perhaps we need a new board for Horoscopes, Ouija Boards, Chicken Entrail Reading and Charting.
Warren Buffett, the richest man in the world, is quoted than he doesn't use charting, nor has anyone who has become seriously rich...

The majority of traders in Market Wizards use charting.