PGC - Licenced to Bank

[Dubdee]

Misplaced panic over torchlight loans to SCF perhaps?

[gonzo56]

"Misplaced" being the operative word.


In a statement on Friday, PGC said Torchlight considered the funding facility an excellent investment.

“Our facility, being secured ahead of other charges under the Trust Deed, is particularly robust, and our investment is well secured and profitable.”

[Logen Ninefingers]

I’m confused...
Can someone please explain why this is being sold off?
It hasn’t been this low before, so that means whoever is selling will be loosing out on a lot of money. Why not ride it out? They either have no balls, or know something we don't..

Yeah, but they can sell now, and buy back in when the price gets a lot lower. So are they losing money, or freeing some money up to buy more shares? Surely the aim is to have the strongest possible portfolio by controlling as many shares as you can with the money you have available.

[gonzo56]

Interesting, that make sense. I was thinking about doing that a while back, but too late now, I dont wanna be left out in the cold.

[winner69]

Shareprice movements are not generally influenced by 'small investors' .... global research shows that generally 10-20 shareholders are the ones who influence price.

NZ is such a small market and the companes are so small that liquidity does become an issue so that does not always apply to NZ

PGC has major shareholders who are unlikely to be selling but there are a few instos on the books who could be influencing the price currently

Whatever selling pressure on above average volumes is not a good sign .... somebody wants out for whatever reason .... and that somebody is probably not stupid .... he needs cash in a hurry or he knows something or belives that this is not a good place to be at the moment

You guys (esp Balance) have nearly convinced me that PGC could be a great investment ..... but I have been waiting for the signals tp buy since 50 cents plus ..... still waiting ..... so if no skeltons in the cupboard looks like I be getting more shares than I thought

[Logen Ninefingers]

I've been guilty of leaping in and buying at times when I should have stepped back and waited. Hopefully I've learnt my lesson now....I certainly aim to be a lot more judicious from now on and not rush to buy all the time. This thing about not buying into down-trends is so well known now that as soon as the SP starts to slip it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy...everyone reckons everyone else will be thinking the same way so you need a piece of big positive news to correct the slide.

[percy]

Well,well,well.Marac pays $70mil cash for GMACNZ's motor book.

[bull....]

On face value is it a good announcement ?

For one they are increasing there market share thats good - but theres plenty of risk in it .

To quote GE and GMAC who both mention similar problems with the industry ( We are leaving the industry because of rising costs of funding also the financial impact of collapsing car sales, and falling car values, which have caused huge losses on car leases.

Also wheres the growth going to come from ? Consumers are becoming more debt consious now and if we get a double dip recession as some people believe may be possible wont the whole segment get worse?
Where are they to source funding from for this increased market share? Off shore , S/H , the reserve bank ?

looks like Marac is trying to replace property financing part of there business ( which is in decline ) with more consumer financing to maintain there profit.
But does it translate into higher growth and profit by gaining a higher market share in a consumer consious segment? Sometimes the answer is no it will depend on how it is managed and I presume they will have to manage it better than GE and GMAC to translate it into higher profits.

Lots of ifs and risks in my opinion

[percy]

looks like Marac is trying to replace property financing part of there business ( which is in decline ) with more consumer financing to maintain there profit.
But does it translate into higher growth and profit by gaining a higher market share in a consumer consious segment? Sometimes the answer is no it will depend on how it is managed and I presume they will have to manage it better than GE and GMAC to translate it into higher profits.

Lots of ifs and risks in my opinion

Yes Marac is out of property financing.Marac has always been very successful with motor and consumer finance.It does translate into higher growth and market share,and profits.I changed my mind and brought more this morning.

[mouse]

Yes Marac is out of property financing.Marac has always been very successful with motor and consumer finance.It does translate into higher growth and market share,and profits.I changed my mind and brought more this morning.
From a ShareMonger or ShareBroker?

[percy]

Well done mouse,I thought everyone missed that Sharemonger reference.wife listens to the radio and commentators have us going in to depreession.I have received RYM,ZIN,PHB,FPH ,and Estaronline annual reports over the last few days and all are doing well.Strong balance sheets and growing businesses.
That brings me back to PGC,strong balance sheet and growing the business.With them expanding in their area of expertise the risks are reduced.With the sun shinning I am now hopeful of a divie!!! Result due in a little over 6 weeks .

[percy]

Torchlight fund hits $150 mil.
"The prevailing investment climate provides considerable opportunity for investors with access to capital and the focus and skill set to deploy this capital.That is what Torchlight fund does."
PGC owns 10% or 15 million of the Torchlight Fund.

[mouse]

The Shareprice today has closed at 39 cents. Lower than the 'rights' price last goodness knows when. No AGM, no statement from Pyne as to what is happening. Omly a week ago they were 44 cents each. A loss of 5 cents, I have lost $1,800 on my investment. Surely there should be some general comment from Pyne Gould?
Further, why are there no comments from ordinary investors? Have they given up hope?

[Logen Ninefingers]

Mouse, as said previously it's all got to do with not buying in a down-trend, coupled with the fact that there are no major events on the PGC calendar in the immediate future.
That means everyone probably thinks: 1/ There are better opportunities around to trade and make money from shares in companies where events are happening at the moment 2/ There's no point buying in the downtrend 3/ Nothings going to change in the immediate future, so there is still time to buy back in close to when PGC announce their result.

I don't think people have given up, it's just that PGC are in a holding pattern just for now (at least the next couple of weeks) and most people know that.

[percy]

The Shareprice today has closed at 39 cents. Lower than the 'rights' price last goodness knows when. No AGM, no statement from Pyne as to what is happening. Omly a week ago they were 44 cents each. A loss of 5 cents, I have lost $1,800 on my investment. Surely there should be some general comment from Pyne Gould?
Further, why are there no comments from ordinary investors? Have they given up hope?

Go to www.chrislee.co.nz
click onto click here to enter our site
click onto market news
scroll down to PGC
I myself think market worring about SCF is affecting PGC shareprice.There have been a few announcements ie Torchlight raising $150 mil, Marac Hea rtland Bank,and Marac $70mil purchase of GMAC,however the result is not due for another 5 weeks,so market is uninformed. Bit like Ballantynes sale;go in to buy a pair of pants and you find they have a special"2 for the price of 1"As I have posted often enough I think they are well managed,have a strong balance sheet and shareholders with enjoy the fruits of the seeds that have been sown.

[mouse]

Thanks Percy. The other probability is that SCF does not go into bankruptcy but into Statutory Management. Maybe at this point Torchlight could be adversly affected. I just do not know. Certainly money is drying up and the Reserve Bank concentrating on Bank sources of finance have left most companies in a worse than struggling position. Money is a bit short this year. The lubrication of business is failing. PGC should benefit from this situation. SO WHY THE LOW SP?

[winner69]

Mouse ... you ask SO WHY THE LOW SP?

What do you think the shareprice should be based on future prospects and all that?

The market thinks that a market cap of $300m is whats its worth at the moment .... maybe thats fair valuation

[Balance]

If it's low, you buy. If it's high, you sell.

Isn't that what investing is about?

[mouse]

Balance, thats the problem. I have run out of cash! As I put on my previous post...

Fourth, this is a disaster for all South Island Finance Companies. And by extension South Island Business. We will all be asked to stump up more cash. To pay debt and put in more funds. There will be a general re-rateing of debt again. Finance Companies, and Solicitors Trust Accounts, will be viewed with suspicion. Once Govt takes a big hit on its Guarantee Scheme then it may well abandon it.

May you live in Interesting Times.

But I did not act on my view. It may not have been the Markets view at the time. It is now, but my opportunity to sell and then buy back in at a lower price has evaporated. The lower price has arrived. Hey Ho, what will a 2 cent dividend do for the shares? Pyne may be forced to declare just that. Since a low SP is fatal for any company. And for investors who have run out of cash.

[mouse]

Mouse ... you ask SO WHY THE LOW SP?

The market thinks that a market cap of $300m is whats its worth at the moment .... maybe thats fair valuation
Probably is!

[mouse]

Balance, that is the problem. No-one can borrow! we are broke, with opportunities galore, and no cash to make the most of the opportunities.:)
At least it is sunny in Christchurch today:)

[Balance]

Balance, that is the problem. No-one can borrow! we are broke, with opportunities galore, and no cash to make the most of the opportunities.:)
At least it is sunny in Christchurch today:)

Not true. I know a few individuals who have borrowed in excess of $1m each (this year) from ASB to buy more shares.

Thy have guts and experience - and are grinning from ear to ear over what has happened in the last few years. I wonder why?

If you want inspiration on what can happen with companies, read the thread on RBD. Did you know that in Jan 2009, AMP sold its 10% of its shareholding in RBD at 58 cents? Today it's over $2.00. Clever huh?

[mouse]

Not true. I know a few individuals who have borrowed in excess of $1m each (this year) from ASB to buy more shares.

Thy have guts and experience - and are grinning from ear to ear over what has happened in the last few years. I wonder why?
You can only borrow if you can prove you dont need the cash. Oh, and also give a Personal Guarantee! You could go down the plughole.

[winner69]

Balance, thats the problem. I have run out of cash! As I put on my previous post...

Fourth, this is a disaster for all South Island Finance Companies. And by extension South Island Business. We will all be asked to stump up more cash. To pay debt and put in more funds. There will be a general re-rateing of debt again. Finance Companies, and Solicitors Trust Accounts, will be viewed with suspicion. Once Govt takes a big hit on its Guarantee Scheme then it may well abandon it.

May you live in Interesting Times.

But I did not act on my view. It may not have been the Markets view at the time. It is now, but my opportunity to sell and then buy back in at a lower price has evaporated. The lower price has arrived. Hey Ho, what will a 2 cent dividend do for the shares? Pyne may be forced to declare just that. Since a low SP is fatal for any company. And for investors who have run out of cash.

Mouse .... not just a South Island problem ..... this is what is happening around the world as eevrybody goes through an unleveraging process .... like the situation in Europe is so bad banks won't even loan to other banks cause they don't have the trust they used to

In saying that there's also zillions of cash sloshing making the most of (or waiting to do so) of the opportunities that are coming up.

Cheers up mate .... PGC hasn't gone in price today ... but nobody's sold or bought either

[Balance]

Mouse .... not just a South Island problem ..... this is what is happening around the world as eevrybody goes through an unleveraging process .... like the situation in Europe is so bad banks won't even loan to other banks cause they don't have the trust they used to

In saying that there's also zillions of cash sloshing making the most of (or waiting to do so) of the opportunities that are coming up.

Cheers up mate .... PGC hasn't gone in price today ... but nobody's sold or bought either

And with time, people will forget.

Ten years ago, the syndicated property market collapsed - huge losses.

Today, it is back and there are investors happy to put money into syndicates.

I cannot figure it out but hi, that's life.

[Balance]

Someone just cleaned out all the sellers at 40 cents and daring them to sell him/her/them more at 40c.

Mouse must be feeling just a little bit happier.

[mouse]

With regards 'going down the plughole' - Yip, always a possibility but "nothing ventured, nothing gained" - And the chances of this happening during a global recovery are pretty slim with a well balanced, conservatively managed portfolio.

If you are young you can 'go down the plughole' a few times. I have checked over a number of sewers. They do smell a bit. So getting older, 70plus, you become a bit risk averse. Except of course for poor AH who maybe thought he was God. Even God can go down plugholes. And the Confession, much to the concern of Evangelicals, says Jesus 'descended into Hell.' I am trying to stay out of both Hell and Sewers.
Young blokes of course are positively encouraged to take more than a punt. Being broke once is almost a requirement amongst Young Kiwis!

[bull....]

Well said Mouse about being young , only makes sense for old buggers if they are good stock pickers or in this environment leverage should be for good stock pickers only.

[Balance]

Leverage is a killer if it's not used properly - like a super-high performance bike, only experts should use it.

[Balance]

Why, thank you Bal me old mate :)

LOL - my pleasure, matey.

I will stick to my trusted Toyota 4 cylinder - sticky pedal & all.

[h2so4]

Young blokes of course are positively encouraged to take more than a punt. Being broke once is almost a requirement amongst Young Kiwis!

Yeah mate, its all part of the bull**** they spin so they can sell bad investments. They tell you that because they know that young people have 20 to 30 years left of working life to recuperate their losses.

More often that not higher risk means higher losses.

What do they tell retireres and pensioners when they discover they don't have enough to pay for those retirement dreams or even pay their bills? The bull**** continues, you should have worked harder, you should have saved more, diversified your portfolio more, taken more risk when you were a young bloke.
That's how they sell safe investments to the elderly.

Higher risk = higher returns. Bring it on! I'm in

I don't think so.

[mouse]

Yeah mate, its all part of the bull**** they spin so they can sell bad investments.
What do they tell retireres and pensioners when they discover they don't have enough to pay for those retirement dreams or even pay their bills? The bull**** continues, you should have worked harder, you should have saved more,
.
Postpone your retirement!

[h2so4]

Postpone your retirement!

Ha !...why retire anyway?:)

[mouse]

Ha !...why retire anyway?:)
To spend your profits from investments.

[h2so4]

To spend your profits from investments.

Na that's lost opportunity. Reinvest and spend the cashflow from investments.:)

[mouse]

Na that's lost opportunity. Reinvest and spend the cashflow from investments.:)
:pYou cant take it with you. Become a SKIER, Spending the kids inheritance. :)

[h2so4]

:pYou cant take it with you. Become a SKIER, Spending the kids inheritance. :)

Well I think we all have that one down pat. Na mate I'm the worst skier, I like my house and my big comfy chair and my big plasma TV that's all I need. The Winter Olympics were awesome.

Furure spending will be on travel and fkids inheritance:)

[kizame]

Be good if you could keep the banter about PGC ,or should we start another thread on home comforts and hols,sorry guys but gee wiz,do you really need to increase your message tally this way?

[h2so4]

Ha! The one with the most posts wins.:D

Just going with the flow kizame just going with the flow.:)

[mouse]

Be good if you could keep the banter about PGC ,or should we start another thread on home comforts and hols,sorry guys but gee wiz,do you really need to increase your message tally this way?
It is a bang on target post, spending the kids inheritance. Since I bought Pyne Gould at an average price of 45 cents and felt I had done OK. The shares have now sunk below the rights issue price. Which is serious stuff. We all remember 'holding' and then finding we have a bit of paper only to show for our bravery, or stupidity. My view now is that Pyne have to declare a dividend of say 2cents a share to support the share price. Hopefully good news in a fortnight or so with the Annual Report. At present Pyne are the SKIERS, not me!

[bull....]

If its not good , the price maybe lower than now.

[mouse]

If its not good , the price maybe lower than now.
My view is Pyne have to declare a 2cent dividend at the minimum. Or the price will go lower still.

[Balance]

My view is Pyne have to declare a 2cent dividend at the minimum. Or the price will go lower still.

I cannot see the possibility of a dividend.

Best to sell out now if you think PGC is going to pay a dividend - there's too many growth and investment opportunities for the group.

[climbtree]

I don't understand how a dividend would be more appealing than further steps towards bankhood. Am I wrong in presuming a 2 cent dividend would lead to a 2 cent drop in SP, whereas if the heartland bank became a definite enterprise SP would skyrocket?

Not to be rude, but I feel share price changes in PGC are the result of the emotions/whims of the big Canterbury investors, hence the recent drop in response to the south Canterbury finance shennanigans

[gonzo56]

I don't understand how a dividend would be more appealing than further steps towards bankhood. Am I wrong in presuming a 2 cent dividend would lead to a 2 cent drop in SP, whereas if the heartland bank became a definite enterprise SP would skyrocket?

Not to be rude, but I feel share price changes in PGC are the result of the emotions/whims of the big Canterbury investors, hence the recent drop in response to the south Canterbury finance shennanigans

Yes, your right about the dividend-price drop, in my opinion, Im happy without a divy as long as they put 100% effort in the bank project. Emotions rule the sharemarket! :) :mad ;: :D :scared: :ohmy:

[percy]

I don't understand how a dividend would be more appealing than further steps towards bankhood. Am I wrong in presuming a 2 cent dividend would lead to a 2 cent drop in SP, whereas if the heartland bank became a definite enterprise SP would skyrocket?

Not to be rude, but I feel share price changes in PGC are the result of the emotions/whims of the big Canterbury investors, hence the recent drop in response to the south Canterbury finance shennanigans
Well what a great first post.Sage advice .Look forward to more of your posts.

[mouse]

Well what a great first post.Sage advice .Look forward to more of your posts.
Except that the big, and small, Canterbury investors need some cash in their pocket. They can get it by selling some shares, depressing the share price further, or having a dividend. The dividend would actually increase the sp as well as putting cash in our pockets. Promises of a bright future are not much use to a starving man. We need cash now. Our low sp will reduce our percentage share of the bank shares allocated with the merger of the various wannabe companies. Our sp has to increase plus we need cash. Pay a dividend.

[Balance]

On a lighter note, some poor old geezer heart obviously could take this advert from Rabobank.

Go, Heartland Bank with many sexy ads!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/video.cfm?c_id=3&gal_objectid=10663543&gallery_id=112993

[climbtree]

Except that the big, and small, Canterbury investors need some cash in their pocket. They can get it by selling some shares, depressing the share price further, or having a dividend. The dividend would actually increase the sp as well as putting cash in our pockets. Promises of a bright future are not much use to a starving man. We need cash now. Our low sp will reduce our percentage share of the bank shares allocated with the merger of the various wannabe companies. Our sp has to increase plus we need cash. Pay a dividend.

I think he was trying to be nice to the new guy but I'm not 100% sure. That is what I meant by the whimsy of the Canterbury investors though, alot of whom probably have money invested in SCF. Investing money you need to buy groceries probably isn't the best idea though!

[percy]

Next Friday PGW report,then usually a few days later we will get PGC result.I am expecting it to be positive with Heartland Bank moving along the right track,Marac performing well,and Torchlight far exceding expectations.We will all have figures and projections to argue over.SCF has tainted PGC .This unfortunately has depressed the share price.I think the market does not realise the Torchlight loan is secure. Result should reasure the market.I am not sure whether there will be further property loan right offs.The last prospectus warned that there could be but would not be a lot.Once analysts and commntators have some solid facts to work from I think PGC will be rerated upwards.Been a long time since we have had facts to work from.Adviser's should then be more comfortable recommending Marac deposits and PGC shares.I must admit I am" well positioned for the upturn"! In fact I am poised.

[mouse]

I think he was trying to be nice to the new guy but I'm not 100% sure. That is what I meant by the whimsy of the Canterbury investors though, alot of whom probably have money invested in SCF. Investing money you need to buy groceries probably isn't the best idea though!
The only cash we have down in Canterbury at the moment is being used to buy groceries. Plus we are putting groceries on the credit card. Times are tough, a mate applied for a job in a laundry and he was told he was one of a hundred applicants. Further all Pyne Gould people have cash in SCF. Is it $70million? So we need some money in our pockets, preferably from a Pyne dividend. Some are even having to sell some of their holdings to pay the school fees, others to pay the bank. I tried to borrow some cash off Marac to buy shares in Marac. They would not accept the security! I fancy a Cow Pie, as Desperate Dan had. A dividend would help.

[climbtree]

Sorry about that, I'm relatively insulated and I can rarely make sense of price changes, e.g. the drop today after the announcement S&P upgraded maracs credit rating. Surely this is a good thing? Is it still not as high as people were hoping for? Is it just a bad day at the market and people are reshuffling their portfolios?

[winner69]

Mouse .... credit upgarde for Marac and the PGC shareprice goes down

You sold out to get the cash you need to buy the groceries?

[bull....]

In S&P report they noted still plenty of uncertainities , only that in current environment things are stable , if any of the numerous variables that affect Marac turn south Im sure S&P will as quickly downgrade.
I think S&P thinking along my wave that merger is the best long term option for marac.

[climbtree]

I bought some shares in PGC just after the rights option and have owned some ever since. If it wasn't for their banking aspirations I wouldn't have been interested, but they seem to have the talent and the resources to become a bank, and I don't think there's any other banks with a share price under a dollar. I just assumed everyone else was investing for the same reason, buying cheap hoping they'd make it to bankhood, but so often they'll release news that I think indicates they're closer and the share price will do something weird. I always figure someone knows something I don't!

[mouse]

Mouse .... credit upgarde for Marac and the PGC shareprice goes down

You sold out to get the cash you need to buy the groceries?
Didnt buy groceries by selling PGG, got groceries on credit cards. The real situation now is that USA and UK are both printing money. Depression Looms. Now is the time to buy shares, not food. Food can wait a few months? Which is why I also have a few PGGWrightson. And should cut up credit cards. Actually I do not have any! I pay cash. Even sometimes to the Sharemonger!

[zigzag]

My view is Pyne have to declare a 2cent dividend at the minimum. Or the price will go lower still.

I wouldn't be banking on a dividend. The prospectus stated there would be no dividend this year, and this was reiterated in the interim report.
The shareprice will be more dependent on them achieving the forecast profit, and general comments regarding progress and outlook. Have patience Mouse, and stick to your basic cheddar for a while. One day you,ll be dining on camenbert again.

[mouse]

I wouldn't be banking on a dividend. The prospectus stated there would be no dividend this year, and this was reiterated in the interim report.
The shareprice will be more dependent on them achieving the forecast profit, and general comments regarding progress and outlook. Have patience Mouse, and stick to your basic cheddar for a while. One day you,ll be dining on camenbert again.
Correct, but one can hope! It may have been a case of underpromise and over deliver. But with PGGWrightson no divi, I suspect Pyne will do the same.

[mouse]

Correct, but one can hope! It may have been a case of underpromise and over deliver. But with PGGWrightson no divi, I suspect Pyne will do the same.
It is also interesting that with PGGWrightson no dividend, the share price dropped. If they had declared a dividend the share price would have dropped for a week or so. What makes share prices rise?

[winner69]

mouse ---- PGC making heaps more than they said a while ago

you'll get the food bill paid for soon ... no need to panic now .... 50 cents next week

[SCOTTY]

A divi of 1.5cps should not be unreasonable; = approx 50% of after tax profit?

[gonzo56]

mouse ---- PGC making heaps more than they said a while ago

you'll get the food bill paid for soon ... no need to panic now .... 50 cents next week

Yeah, just got the email. 5% higher.

[percy]

Banks need cash ... I wouldn't bet on it.

Banks usually get more money from depositers rather than shareholders.

[mouse]

Banks usually get more money from depositers rather than shareholders.
Pyne have the cash from both!

[Balance]

This stock is going places.

Next train-station - Heartland Bank, hopefully after taking over SCF's good loan book with a $100m capital injection by the government.

[Breastwork]

How astute Balance, but do you not believe that it will be hindered by the lack of transparency of PGC's entities?

[Balance]

How astute Balance, but do you not believe that it will be hindered by the lack of transparency of PGC's entities?

Er? What's so opaque about PGC's operations?

There's PGW, Marac, Perpetual Asset Management, the Trustee operation and an impaired property portfolio.

How transparent is ANZ Bank with its entities?

Besides, Marac has its own accounts and is a separate entity altogether.

[Breastwork]

LOL, how quickly you forget the EPAM arms length purchase, the Real Estate Credit shuffle and the Torchlight tango

[percy]

LOL, how quickly you forget the EPAM arms length purchase, the Real Estate Credit shuffle and the Torchlight tango

No.Just time and understanding, proves that it is very successful for PGC.

[geezy]

if they successfully obtain a banking license, will they issue another IPO? or will they raise another capital raising under PGC?

[Balance]

LOL, how quickly you forget the EPAM arms length purchase, the Real Estate Credit shuffle and the Torchlight tango

Torchlight - a managed fund with over $100m from professional and wealthy investors. Nice fees and market positioning for PGC. Where's the tango?

Real Estate - impaired assets shifted to PGC to recapitalize and strengthen Marac. Classic true and tried financial restructuring - eg. BNZ and S&L. Where's the credit shuffle?

EPAM - a real asset and business bought off George Kerr - a fund management business with $155m of assets under management and generating in excess of $1.5m a year in fees. Agree transaction should have been approved by all shareholders however. Track the transaction however and it was essentially PGC shares issued at 40 cents to buy the business. Definitely not an Watson/Hotchin related party transaction of using Hanover's money to speculate on properties & shares and then, sale of the impaired assets back into Hanover.

[percy]

if they successfully obtain a banking license, will they issue another IPO? or will they raise another capital raising under PGC?

Doubt it.The capital base of the three parties should be more than enough.Would not be surprised if more joined the party.Can not see PGC wanting their holding deluted,and sure they will want to be in the driving seat.Do not see anyone at PGC as a back seat driver!!!

[mouse]

Doubt it.The capital base of the three parties should be more than enough.Would not be surprised if more joined the party.Can not see PGC wanting their holding deluted,and sure they will want to be in the driving seat.Do not see anyone at PGC as a back seat driver!!!
I would almost put money on additional money being raised by means of a rights issue. Shares would be allocated to everyone involved and then a rights issue. They cannot lose the opportunity to get more capital. You always make losses, or raise cash, at the start of a new direction. The old ploy is to get new management in who declare major losses. Everything is written down and then the only direction is up! Get ready with your wallets. Have a nice weekend.

[Balance]

I would almost put money on additional money being raised by means of a rights issue. Shares would be allocated to everyone involved and then a rights issue. They cannot lose the opportunity to get more capital. You always make losses, or raise cash, at the start of a new direction. The old ploy is to get new management in who declare major losses. Everything is written down and then the only direction is up! Get ready with your wallets. Have a nice weekend.

Let's hope you are right - a pro-rata entitlement to PGC shareholders only to subscribe for new shares in Heartland Bank will go down a real treat.

[percy]

Let's hope you are right - a pro-rata entitlement to PGC shareholders only to subscribe for new shares in Heartland Bank will go down a real treat.

Do not know how I will get on borrowing from Westpac to take up new shares in Heartland..!!! May have to give some other reason for the loan.

[geezy]

i m almost certain they would , banks has some certain criterias to meet tier 1 ratio etc etc.

[Balance]

Heartland Bank on the way. Make money while you sleep - that's what good banks do - every day, every hour, every minute and every second.

Watch the price action on Thursday after the company reports - directors and management will be able to buy shares again.

Update on proposed merger

I would like to take the time to update you on progress we have made since announcing our intention on 1 June 2010 to evaluate a possible merger with Canterbury Building Society (CBS) and Southern Cross Building Society (SCBS).

Progress to date
The merger evaluation process is advancing and significant progress has been made by the three parties towards our stated aim of creating an NZX-listed banking group providing a full range of banking and financial services to customers in Heartland New Zealand.

Extensive due diligence along with a detailed valuation process are now well underway and this will establish the relative values of the existing parties in the new merged entity. Good progress has also been made on the proposed structure and timeline to achieve the merger. Overseeing this is an Establishment Board of which I am Chairman and also includes Gary Leech (Chairman of CBS), Geoff Ricketts (Chairman of SCBS) and Jeff Greenslade who is the Project Director.

New merged structure
It is anticipated that the new merged structure would have an NZX-listed non-operating holding company. Existing CBS and SCBS shareholders would be shareholders, along with PGC, who would be the major shareholder. In turn this holding company would own 100% of an operating group which would be a building society and would be made up of the businesses of CBS, SCBS and MARAC.

It should be noted that this structure would not require any change to the Building Societies Act.

Approval process
The process and intent around achieving the merger will be captured in a Merger Implementation Agreement, which would need to be signed off by the respective boards. Ultimately the merger would require PGC shareholder approval as well as approvals by way of special resolutions of the shareholders of the two building societies. Depositor and bondholder approvals would also be required. If the merger proposal proceeds it is expected that meetings to vote on the proposal would take place sometime in November. You will receive detailed information on the merger and an Independent Appraisal report well in advance.

Merger supported
Since announcing our intention to evaluate a merger, it has been pleasing to have received a broad level of support and feedback. This has not just been from our respective customers, members, shareholders and investors but also from regulators, legislative authorities and politicians. They are all supportive of our objective of creating an NZX-listed banking group targeting the needs of New Zealand families, small to medium sized businesses, and farmers.

In undertaking this merger process, all three entities believed there to be a high degree of business compatibility with complementary offerings. Certainly the process to date has very much confirmed this.

The benefits of merging with CBS and SCBS
As you know PGC has a long and proud history of providing finance to New Zealanders. Our wholly owned subsidiary, MARAC, has grown to be one of New Zealand’s largest and most successful finance companies, offering finance, insurance and investment solutions. Its core competency and business is around asset finance and seasonal/working capital provision to the small and medium sized business market.

It has been MARAC’s stated ambition to become a registered bank. We see that merging with CBS and SCBS to create an entity with more than $2.2 billion of assets as a significant step towards that goal. Consolidation of the three businesses would provide the obvious market advantages and scale to drive further growth and shareholder value.

Both CBS and SCBS are long established building societies that bring added diversity to MARAC. They are similar but have geographical strengths and coverage in different parts of the country and bring transaction banking capability and savings products.

About Canterbury Building Society
CBS is based in the South Island with a strong customer base. In recent years CBS has achieved considerable growth and market share as a result of a merger with two other well-established Canterbury building societies and has emerged as a key regional business. The strength of CBS’ business is providing loans secured by first ranking mortgages over residential, commercial, and farming property. Funding the lending activities of CBS has traditionally been through innovative and competitive retail deposit products, including savings and investments. CBS also has transaction banking including internet banking capability.

About Southern Cross Building Society
Whereas CBS is focused in the South Island, SCBS has a North Island focus. SCBS’ North Island distribution network comprises its seven branches and some 40 independently owned and operated agencies located throughout the North Island – and particularly within the ‘golden triangle’ of Waikato, Bay of Plenty and Auckland. SCBS’ product range closely resembles that of CBS. Furthermore SCBS’ already strong capital and liquidity positions would benefit the merged group.

We see significant potential in merging these three entities. PGC would be the majority shareholder in what will be a larger, more diverse and stronger financial services business.

As I indicated a lot of work has been done towards making this a reality. But we are still not there. The trigger point will be once the three parties agree merger terms and the Merger Implementation Agreement is signed. At that point we will be coming back to you with a lot more information and detail.

We will be in touch with you in the near future to update you on progress.

Yours sincerely


Bruce Irvine

[percy]

Yes things are moving along..Still a lot of property right downs,Hope that is the end of them.On going business in good shape.I suppose I am a little disappointed that things will take longer to produce the goods than I thought.But good foundations result in a better long return.Look forward to the divie talk at the AGM.

[mouse]

:DThings are definately moving today. Will we have a train wreck or bale out? What will Govt do? Much more importantly, what impact will all this have on land and property values in the South Island? You must of course understand that we are not interested in North Island values. Its the Mainland that matters.:cool: Years ago I was 'restructured' in the Ministry of Works. We went to get a pep talk from the District Commissioner of Works. His words were helpful.
"Its every man for himself." He said. :D No PC is those days.
Watch for the helpful statements tomorrow. Then work out how they will impact on Pyne Gould. Things are Black....... There is also the chance of some loot from the train wreck.:eek2:
Which brings me to the question, should I hold my 30,000 shares in Pyne, or sell at a loss? Advice please.:ohmy:

[winner69]

:DThings are definately moving today. Will we have a train wreck or bale out? What will Govt do? Much more importantly, what impact will all this have on land and property values in the South Island? You must of course understand that we are not interested in North Island values. Its the Mainland that matters.:cool: Years ago I was 'restructured' in the Ministry of Works. We went to get a pep talk from the District Commissioner of Works. His words were helpful.
"Its every man for himself." He said. :D No PC is those days.
Watch for the helpful statements tomorrow. Then work out how they will impact on Pyne Gould. Things are Black....... There is also the chance of some loot from the train wreck.:eek2:
Which brings me to the question, should I hold my 30,000 shares in Pyne, or sell at a loss? Advice please.:ohmy:

Hey mouse ... everything you said about PGC has been optimisitic ... all the reasons why you bought are still on track to happen .... if you still believe why would you sell now

Just that market sentiment is bad ... like they say in the US ... sell in May and come back in October .... maybe the markets will be cheerier then

[kizame]

My god Mouse do you really need to ask that,was there anything in PGC's anual result that said things look like they are turning to custard.
Is it not the case that PGC foresaw this a long time ago,think about it!!!

[percy]

I had brilliant results last thursday from EBO,NPX and CCC,but found myself disappointed with PGC result.The property writedowns spooked me.I expected about $5mil{as per the prospectus}but was $32mil.With the SCF fall out I expect further property problems.The bank may cost more and take longer before we see good results.With uncertainties and until there is some clarity on SCf I decided to move more to cash and sold just under half of our holding.

[kiora]

Wow,good result for PGC ??
SCF's receivership should mean a windfall for the Pyne Gould Corporation owned, George Kerr chaired Torchlight Investment Group. Torchlight contributed NZ$15 million towards a NZ$100 million loan it arranged for SCF earlier this year. The loan ranks ahead of SCF’s debenture holders under the finance company's trust deed and means Torchlight has a prior charge on up to NZ$151 million or 7.2% of SCF's assets

[bull....]

Wouldnt say it was that good all they get i believe is their money back plus some interest , the govt has effectively taken control of the company ensuring no one can get any fire sale bargains.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Haha....yeah, PGC were supposed to be gonna swoop in and pick off choice assets like a big vulture. What a pipe-dream.

[zigzag]

I think the govt has already repaid torchlight and the banks. This puts the govt at the top of the queue, and means they don't pay anymore interest.

[bull....]

Torchlight probably would have made more money by buying scf bonds

[mouse]

:confused:With the demise of South Canty Finance, which has been referred to as the second largest finance company in NZ, which finance companies are now left? Clearly the Govt cannot have a 'fire sale' of all the Canty farms and farmers who owe cash to SCF. So where will they get the cash to repay their loans? Far more importantly, where is capital now coming from for cows for a share milker, land for a would-be farmer or money to see farmers to harvest?:(
It seems to me that Pyne Gould are well placed plus PGGWrightson. Wrightson have already said they are in future to concentrate on seasonal loans, not long term loans.
Seems to me to be great opportunities from this disaster. :confused:

[Breastwork]

Balance - thought you might be interested in this........

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/pgc-considers-cutting-adrift-machiavelli-fan-kerrs-torchlight-it-moves-towards-heartland-bank

[geezy]

surely PGC will emerge champion out of NZ finance companies?

[percy]

Balance - thought you might be interested in this........

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/pgc-considers-cutting-adrift-machiavelli-fan-kerrs-torchlight-it-moves-towards-heartland-bank

Breastwork,Although you addressed your post to Balance I hope you do not mind my views.
I think what we will end up with is something like this.
PGC ownes; 1. large stake in PGW.
2. Majority stake in Heartland Bank,which owns Marac,Marac insurance and part of Perpectual Trust.
3.The parts of Perpectual Trust that did not go into Heartland,namely A/ Torchlight
B/Thames Water and Moto fund management business.
C/ Marac's old bad property loans.
What I think the article and Greenslade meant was Torchlight and other bits were not a fit with Heartland,while parts of Perpetual could be..

[mouse]

:)Pop down please to Timaru this week and hire at least two staff from SCF, and maybe more, who had the job of lending to the SCF customers. They know who are willing to pay plus who are able to pay.:) We should be able by nimble action to swipe some very decent customers by hiring a few soon to be unemployed staff. Cost and risk to Pyne, quite low.:D Returns amazing. Swipe the good loan book this week.
Action This Day.:)

[minimoke]

:)Pop down please to Timaru this week and hire at least two staff from SCF, and maybe more, who had the job of lending to the SCF customers. They know who are willing to pay plus who are able to pay.:) We should be able by nimble action to swipe some very decent customers by hiring a few soon to be unemployed staff. Cost and risk to Pyne, quite low.:D Returns amazing. Swipe the good loan book this week.
Action This Day.:)
In the real business world your idea would fail as these staff would be covered by a restraint of trade so couldn't pinch those customers. However given Hubbards reluctance to look at new world standards of business practice your idea has loads of merit. I'd be there by lunchtime!

[mouse]

In my business world this sort of thing happens all the time but in slightly more subtle ways.
Bugger subtlety.

[geezy]

PGC
02/09/2010
ASSET

REL: 1430 HRS Pyne Gould Corporation Limited

ASSET: PGC: PGC in talks to buy Aegis

2 September 2010

PGC announced today that its wholly owned subsidiary Perpetual Group Limited
is in advanced exclusive discussions with ASB Bank Limited in relation to the
possible acquisition by Perpetual of Aegis.

PGC CEO, Jeff Greenslade, said "Aegis is the leading WRAP platform in NZ with
Funds under Administration of over $5 billion, an extensive client base and a
strong financial track record. For Perpetual, a customer of Aegis since 2003,
the opportunity to develop the Aegis business further from this sound
position would support our long term wealth management strategy".

Perpetual is now entering into exclusive discussions with ASB to work through
the remaining details and determine whether an acquisition of the Aegis
business can be finalised. As part of this process Aegis staff and customers
will be updated on Perpetual's future plans for the business.

ASB General Manager Investments, Laurie Mellsop says, "Earlier this year we
advised both Aegis staff and customers that we would be exploring future
ownership options for the Aegis business, including a possible sale. This
process has culminated in the announcement being made today. We are keen to
ensure that Aegis' established position as a leading independent WRAP
platform will be preserved and we believe that Perpetual's future business
plans achieve this purpose for both customers and staff. "

PGC expects to provide an update on the status of the possible acquisition of
Aegis by the end of September.

- Ends -

For further information please contact:

Jeff Greenslade
Chief Executive Officer
Pyne Gould Corporation
DDI 09 927 9149
Mobile 021 563 593

Patrick Middleton
Chief Executive Officer
Perpetual Portfolio Management
DDI 09 927 9504
Mobile 029 770 0017
End CA:00199228 For:PGC Type:ASSET Time:2010-09-02:14:30:12

[geezy]

PGC
07/09/2010 09:46
GENERAL

REL: 0946 HRS Pyne Gould Corporation Limited

GENERAL: PGC: MARAC secures rights to promote Holden Financial Services

NZX and Media Release

MARAC secures rights to promote Holden Financial Services

7 September 2010

Pyne Gould Corporation Limited subsidiary MARAC Finance Limited is further
expanding its vehicle financing distribution having secured the rights to
promote Holden Financial Services, Holden Finance and Holden Insurance.

The agreement with Holden New Zealand (Holden) builds on MARAC's recent
acquisition of GMAC NZ's (GMAC) retail motor vehicle book. GMAC was the
previous provider of branded finance to the Holden dealer network.

Holden is the third largest motor vehicle distributor in New Zealand, with a
33-strong dealer network nationwide. Holden is also the distributor for
Isuzu trucks, New Zealand's number one selling truck brand with 10 dedicated
dealers throughout the country.

MARAC's Chief Executive Jeff Greenslade says MARAC and Holden have had a
close working relationship stretching back many years.

"This transaction lifts the relationship to a higher level and furthers
MARAC's strategy of being the major provider of financial solutions to New
Zealand families and small to medium sized businesses. It also aligns with
the strategic direction of the company to become a bank through the proposed
merger with Southern Cross Building Society and CBS Canterbury."

The General Manager of MARAC's personal finance business, Chris Flood, says
Holden Financial Services offering Holden branded finance and insurance
solutions will be launched shortly and will provide more benefits than ever
before to Holden customers.

"It will also provide a significant opportunity for MARAC to increase its
market share of the vehicle finance market" says Mr Flood.

The strengthened relationship between MARAC and Holden has been welcomed by
Holden New Zealand Managing Director Simon Carr.

"This is an excellent outcome for Holden's customers, who can have complete
confidence in the relationship between the two companies and the ongoing
support of MARAC as their financing needs evolve - now and in the future"
says Mr Carr.

- Ends -

For further information contact:

Chris Flood
General Manager - Personal
MARAC
DDI 09 927 9139
Mobile 027 226 6508

[mouse]

Can anyone give us some analysis on the effects of the Canterbury earthquake. Earthquake Commission will need cash to repair my bathroom for example and replace my sons garage. So they must sell down shares. My view is they will sell overseas shares first. Our dollar is very strong compared to what it normally is. However, eventually NZ shares must be sold by EQ. Any ideas of the effect on the market? will they announce 'sold xxx shares to explain the dip?' All very interesting. Can anyone remember the market effects of the Titanic Sinking?

[mouse]

Titanic Story. Genuine. The chap was seeing a friend off to America on the Titanic. Got off the boat and saw 'Not even God could sink this boat.' He knew it would sink on its maiden voyage. Got back on and persuaded his mate to get off. He then tried, without success, to persuade other passengers not to board. It was all the fault of the Orangemen of Belfast! A true story, my brother in London told me from the daughter of the chap involved in getting his mate off the ship.

[winner69]

Can anyone give us some analysis on the effects of the Canterbury earthquake. Earthquake Commission will need cash to repair my bathroom for example and replace my sons garage. So they must sell down shares. My view is they will sell overseas shares first. Our dollar is very strong compared to what it normally is. However, eventually NZ shares must be sold by EQ. Any ideas of the effect on the market? will they announce 'sold xxx shares to explain the dip?' All very interesting. Can anyone remember the market effects of the Titanic Sinking?

You will pleased to know mouse that EQC don't have any NZ shares

Accounts for 2009 said they had $3.8 billion of Govt Stock and related stuff , $0.25 billion of NZ bank Securities and $1.7 billion of overseas equities.

No NZ stuff because the total market is only $50 billion and the Govt may as well leave that to ACC .... and whats the point of investing in stuff that has a possibility of taking a hot from a series of disasters

[mouse]

You will pleased to know mouse that EQC don't have any NZ shares

Accounts for 2009 said they had $3.8 billion of Govt Stock and related stuff , $0.25 billion of NZ bank Securities and $1.7 billion of overseas equities.

No NZ stuff because the total market is only $50 billion and the Govt may as well leave that to ACC .... and whats the point of investing in stuff that has a possibility of taking a hot from a series of disasters
Many thanks. It looks as if the Canty quake will wipe half of the EQ funds if they only have NZ$5.75 billion. Our quake may well cost over $2 billion. Add escalations and administrations!

[winner69]

Many thanks. It looks as if the Canty quake will wipe half of the EQ funds if they only have NZ$5.75 billion. Our quake may well cost over $2 billion. Add escalations and administrations!

So we all pay with increased premiums in the future eh

[winner69]

Mouse - you'd be pleased EQC don't invest in arms, mines, munitions as well as cigarette companies

[geezy]

PGC
16/09/2010 09:00
MERGER

REL: 0900 HRS Pyne Gould Corporation Limited

MERGER: PGC: Boards Recommend Merger

NZX and Media Release
16 September 2010

Boards recommend merger
The boards of Pyne Gould Corporation (PGC), MARAC, CBS Canterbury (CBS) and
Southern Cross Building Society (SCBS) have determined that their plan to
form a New Zealand listed banking and financial services group is compelling
and have formally committed to proceed with the merger.

A binding Merger Implementation Agreement was signed today dealing with the
structure of the merged entity, and the various conditions that need to be
satisfied. Subject to all relevant regulatory and stakeholder approvals and
satisfaction of other conditions, the target date for the merger taking
effect is 1 January 2011.

The merged group will seek an NZX listing for the newly created financial
services group with a target listing date for early February.

The chairman of the Establishment Board overseeing the merger process, Bruce
Irvine said: "This is a significant step forward. After extensive due
diligence, evaluation and independent analysis we are firmly of the view that
the merger is compelling and will be beneficial to all parties. As such, all
four boards will be unanimous in recommending the merger proposal to their
respective stakeholders."

"We want to be a business that services the needs of New Zealanders," he
said. This will be achieved by:

- establishing a nationwide presence with a particular focus on leveraging
existing 'legacy' markets in Canterbury, Auckland, Waikato and Bay of Plenty

- focusing on lending activity in niche sectors including small-to-medium
businesses, rural businesses and New Zealand individuals and families

- adopting a 'customer first' delivery approach to deliver tailored products
and services to customers

- establishing a broader shareholder base and capital structure to facilitate
growth

"It is our aspiration to become a bank," he said. "We have been told by
shareholders, businesses and community leaders that they want this merger to
happen as soon as possible."

Mr Irvine confirmed that the merged entity would have its head office in
Christchurch. "We have a strong and long standing presence in the Canterbury
region and this will remain important. In the short term, we intend to play
our part in helping the region recover from the recent earthquake. As a
unified entity we believe we will be well positioned to do this."

Merger Compelling
In deciding to proceed with the merger the boards of the four entities
concluded that:

- The merger is compelling because it provides:

- increased scale, a platform for accelerated growth via a nationwide
distribution network and increased market presence and credibility

- a diversified asset portfolio and depositor base

- a better case for obtaining an investment grade credit rating and banking
licence

- access to alternative sources of funding and greater liquidity

- the ability over time to realign the combined asset portfolios to drive
consistent profitability and superior shareholder returns

- the prospect of being able to pay regular dividends

- an NZX listing, subject to a formal application process, that would be
likely to lead to greater investor interest, greater liquidity and inclusion
in the NZX50

- The outlook for a merged CBS, SCBS and MARAC would be substantially better
than that for any of the parties on a standalone basis, particularly given
the changing economic, regulatory and competitive landscape

The merged entity will be well capitalised from the beginning. CBS, SCBS and
MARAC have deliberately built up approximately $300m of cash and liquid
assets to ensure significant liquidity is available to the merged entity. In
addition, to supplement funding available from CBS, SCBS and MARAC's loyal
depositor and
debenture investor bases, the merged entity is currently negotiating with
banks with a view to obtaining undrawn standby banking facilities and
securitisation facilities and will contemplate an NZDX retail bond issuance
in time.

Working with Christchurch customers after the earthquake
The Christchurch offices of CBS and MARAC are fully operational and have been
able to continue meeting the needs of customers post-earthquake. The region
will be a significant component of the merged business, with about 28 percent
of the loan book and 39 percent of the deposit base at the time of the
merger.

The Establishment Board, on behalf of all the parties to the merger,
expresses its sympathies to those affected by the earthquake. "We look
forward to the rebuilding of the affected parts of the city and region, and
we welcome the announcements made by the government earlier this week in
regard to the establishment of a dedicated ministry overseeing regional
recovery."

Implementation
The implementation of the merger will involve a number of processes under the
Building Societies Act and the Companies Act. An application will be made
shortly to the High Court for initial orders in respect of a Scheme of
Arrangement. That will be followed in November by meetings of members,
shareholders and investors in the four entities to pass the necessary
resolutions to enable the Scheme of Arrangement and other implementation
processes to be put into effect.

If the voting stakeholders in the four entities agree to implement the merger
the new entity will comprise a non-operating company, Building Society
Holdings Limited "Merged Group"), which will seek listing on NZX.

The operating businesses of CBS, SCBS, MARAC and MARAC Insurance will be held
in operating subsidiaries of Merged Group (see Appendix 1 for structural
diagram).

The merger share proportions will be PGC 71%, CBS 14.5% and SCBS 14.5%. PGC
will remain a discrete entity with a single holding in the merged entity
whereas the individual shareholders of CBS and SCBS will own shares in their
own right.

The board of the Merged Group will comprise up to nine directors; five (one
of whom will be chairman) nominated by PGC; up to two nominated by SCBS; and
up to two nominated by CBS. A minimum of three directors are required to be
Independent Directors.

The integration of the businesses will be phased in over time so as to ensure
there will be no disruption to the merging entities' front line operations.
Upon the merger taking effect it is intended that existing brands will
continue to be used. The integration process will be overseen by the new
board and a project team.

The agreement represents the first stage of the Merged Group's operating
business seeking a banking licence.

Additional comments from the respective chairs: Bruce Irvine, PGC, Gary
Leech, CBS and Geoff Ricketts, SCBS "We firmly believe the merger is a
compelling value enhancing proposition for members and shareholders that
would not otherwise be available to each of us on a standalone basis."

"We believe changes in the financial sector have created a strong appetite
for a New Zealand listed banking group from our respective members,
shareholders and customers. We also think there is a niche that we can fill
in our target market which is currently under serviced - that being the
banking market for SMEs, rural businesses and NZ individuals and families."

"The merger brings scale to our operations, with combined assets of
approximately $2.3b. This provides a platform for accelerated growth via a
nationwide distribution network, increased market presence and credibility.
Increased scale is also likely to provide access to more diverse sources of
debt funding and greater equity funding capacity (via an NZX listing) (see
Appendix 2 for more detail on the asset portfolio)."

"Moreover, we believe the benefits of scale, the ability to drive asset
growth and potential funding cost improvements will enhance profitability and
lead to superior shareholder returns."

"The landscape for finance companies and savings institutions is changing in
the wake of the global financial crisis and as new regulations are
implemented. The merged entity will not only comply with all applicable
regulations but will be well placed to take advantage of expansion
opportunities. We strongly believe that this is the best way forward for our
respective businesses. Each of us intends doing all we can to obtain the
required consents to make this happen and to implement the merger."

It is intended that full details of the merger proposal will be sent to all
relevant stakeholders in early November. A summary of the conditions
contained in the Merger Implementation Agreement, and other related
information, have been filed with the NZX (see Appendix 4).

The key advisers to the four entities are First NZ Capital,
PricewaterhouseCoopers, Deloitte and Chapman Tripp.

NB: 1. None of CBS, SCBS, PGC and MARAC is a registered bank, and any merged
entity will not be a registered bank until it is registered as such under the
Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act 1989.

2. It is intended that application will be made to NZX Limited for permission
to list the shares to be issued under the Merger on the NZSX, although the
shares have not been approved for trading on a securities market operated by
a registered exchange (and no application for such listing has been made) as
at the date of this announcement. NZX Limited accepts no responsibility for
any statement in this announcement. NZX Limited is a registered exchange
regulated under the Securities Markets Act 1988.

3. Building Society Holdings Limited and Combined Building Society are
working titles pending a formal branding process

For queries please contact:
Geoff Senescall
Senescall Akers
021 481 234
End CA:00199783 For:PGC Type:MERGER Time:2010-09-16 09:00:45

[kizame]

I don't think too much will happen until a listing occurs,and we whom are shareholders know exactly how and when the ACTUAL earnings start to show real promise looking ahead,and whether it is likely an initial loss(or much reduced net profit) will occur in the first year of operation.
Still quite a bit of uncertainty,and of course the market loves that.

[JayPe]

Does NZ have a market for all these banks? Australia has 4 large banks and a couple of regional banks (Bendigo & Adelaide, BoQ, Suncorp), while the much smaller New Zealand now has 5 big banks with regionals like TSB and the new player (whatever it ends up being called).

Is there room for them all?

[kizame]

Always room for a niche player,I never liked the Aussie banks and their charging new and increasing fees. I banked with BNZ when in business and never liked them after the Aussies took over,however in saying that,BNZ became a safer bank I think,as far as falling over was concerned.
But I think they will grab market share just as Kiwi bank did.

[JayPe]

But I think they will grab market share just as Kiwi bank did.

I'm sure they will, but in the long term surely there will be some consolidation?

Its interesting looking at the banks over time:
- In Australia you had quite a few players growing to challenge the dominance of the Big Four. Then suddenly a couple of years later many of them are gone (e.g. St George, BankWest) and they're back to the Big Four dominating.
- In NZ for years there have been little players (Trust, Post) that were always subsumed into the Big Four. However, Kiwibank hasn't gone that way yet, and the Aussies eyes are more focused on Asia now, so we may see a different dynamic opening up where there's room for a permanent NZ-based fifth player.

[mouse]

Plus do not forget SBS bank. A Mutual. Which fought very hard not to be taken over and are now expanding.

[geezy]

good news after good news but share price is still lagging , with good volume too! :)

[ETC]

Does anyone know the reason for such huge volumes? Today 8 million shares were traded

[clips]

Tied in with the decline of the hubbard empire ??

[gonzo56]

Tied in with the decline of the hubbard empire ??

ACC not bothered.
gotta be a good sign today.

[COLIN]

Does anyone know the reason for such huge volumes? Today 8 million shares were traded

George Kerr and family getting rid of 7.5m.

Not a good look, but I am sure he would have a plausible explanation.

I'm glad to be no longer involved.

[climbtree]

PGC is re-evaluating if Torchlight is part of their plan or not, and it's Georges baby. He still has a substantial holding in the company, so perhaps this simply reflects his decreased agency in his returns (i.e. he trusts himself to turn a profit more than anyone else)

[geezy]

yes george kerr cashing out isnt a good sign indeed and at a price of 0.41 much lower than what he was paying before?

[Anna Naum]

George the seller and ACC the buyer. Sounds more like a debt repayment to me. George has plenty so probably tax related.

[kizame]

Colin,why may I ask are you glad you aren't there anymore?
You guys seem to speculate on a small selldown,have you seen the number of shares he holds?
This company keeps coming with the good news,has huge potential with their plans for a bank,yep may not be plain sailing,but you have to admit,they are making all the right noises,credit rating agency happy. Be patient,and stop looking for things to go wrong.

[COLIN]

Colin,why may I ask are you glad you aren't there anymore?
You guys seem to speculate on a small selldown,have you seen the number of shares he holds?
This company keeps coming with the good news,has huge potential with their plans for a bank,yep may not be plain sailing,but you have to admit,they are making all the right noises,credit rating agency happy. Be patient,and stop looking for things to go wrong.

Well Kizame, I hope your patience is ultimately rewarded. PGC continues to consistently underperform. I am more interested in investing where I can see better prospects of improving my financial position over the coming months. I don't see any "buy" signals in any of the charts.

From a purely FA position, there is a long way to go, yet, before PGC becomes a successful bank, believe me.

My mantra is:

SELL INTO WEAKNESS, BUY INTO STRENGTH.

[kizame]

Hi Colin,I have given up on the timing for medium to longer term holds,as I found i was being wipsawed out of positions using charts. So I have a 2-5 year perspective on this one.I am deeply hopeful of it bearing bigger fruit.

[mouse]

Almost a year of my two years has gone. The share price in that time has gone down. As the chap said to me as he was watching Judge Corp being marked down in the 1987 crash, 'it cant go down any more can it?' I, being more sensitive in those days did not tell him the truth. What is the bottom for Pyne Gould? Have we reached it? what will happen when we get the 'cash call' for the new bank? And yes, as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, we will have a cash call. DONT SPREAD PANIC!!!!!

Hi Colin,I have given up on the timing for medium to longer term holds,as I found i was being wipsawed out of positions using charts. So I have a 2-5 year perspective on this one.I am deeply hopeful of it bearing bigger fruit.

[ETC]

Why so pessimistic mouse? There’s nothing to indicate that this company is going to need to tap investors for more cash, they have enough liquidity to meet the government’s new banking laws at the the moment.

[Anna Naum]

Another step along the road to becoming a bank announced today.

http://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/PGC/announcements/4198774/Building-Society-Holdings-Ltd-Board-and-Proposed-Executive

[percy]

chalkie is right on the money this morning.www.stuff.co.nz opinion Torchlight boss eyeing greener pastures?
I trust more answers are given to what PGC shareholders may expect from their holding in PGC,PGW holding,Torchlight ownership.To say they are seeking advice,seems to show a lack of direction from the directors.I feel shareholders should be given clear answers at the AGM.
None of us got out the cheque book ,to be told a year later that other than the bank,the board do not know what direction they want the company to go.The Epic investment is already proving to not be up to the mark.

[mouse]

The problem is that the bank has to be a bank owned by the shareholders. As far as I see it. The bank cannot be owned, or should I say 70% owned, by another company that is also involved in development of seeds for agriculture. The thing does not fit. So Pyne bundle all the bits of the bank together and give us shares in that lot. They are then left with a group of companies that are not related to any one business. So how does that non-bank company work? Read Chalkie for the answer. Except of course he does not have one. Nor do I. As Percy says, turn up at the AGM and ask the questions. Or stay ignorant. No one else can ask the questions for you. Do we have a fish or fowl?

chalkie is right on the money this morning.www.stuff.co.nz opinion Torchlight boss eyeing greener pastures?
I trust more answers are given to what PGC shareholders may expect from their holding in PGC,PGW holding,Torchlight ownership.To say they are seeking advice,seems to show a lack of direction from the directors.I feel shareholders should be given clear answers at the AGM.
None of us got out the cheque book ,to be told a year later that other than the bank,the board do not know what direction they want the company to go.The Epic investment is already proving to not be up to the mark.

[SCOTTY]

Chris Lee www.chrislee.co.nz makes some very interesting observations on the future of PGC in his colomn this week.

[mouse]

Also note that he is opening an office in Timaru. They just happen to have found an ideal chap there to run it. Where did the chap work before? What is PGC doing?

Chris Lee www.chrislee.co.nz makes some very interesting observations on the future of PGC in his colomn this week.

[Breastwork]

"Torchlight - a managed fund with over $100m from professional and wealthy investors. Nice fees and market positioning for PGC. Where's the tango?

Real Estate - impaired assets shifted to PGC to recapitalize and strengthen Marac. Classic true and tried financial restructuring - eg. BNZ and S&L. Where's the credit shuffle?

EPAM - a real asset and business bought off George Kerr - a fund management business with $155m of assets under management and generating in excess of $1.5m a year in fees. Agree transaction should have been approved by all shareholders however. Track the transaction however and it was essentially PGC shares issued at 40 cents to buy the business. Definitely not an Watson/Hotchin related party transaction of using Hanover's money to speculate on properties & shares and then, sale of the impaired assets back into Hanover."

Balance, apologies for not getting back sooner,

Torchlight - a vulture fund operating under the umbrella of a potential banking entity.
You may think it a good look, I disagree.

EPAM - An entity of Kerr's that
a) is about to default on it's prospectus as a result of a change in policy by MOTO
b) is party of a $9 million debt to the Te Uri O Hau Settlement Trust
c) has defaulted on interest payments of some $1.5 million in relation to that loan to the above entity

Again, I think it prudent of the management of PGC to distance itself from Mr Kerr and his activities....

[shambles]

Looks like there is a dividend announcement on it's way.. good news for the share price.

[gonzo56]

Probably less than 0.4c, but positive nonetheless.

[JayPe]

Latest News:
http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/faed2a32/heartland-bank-merger-compelling.html

Summary:
"Investment bankers Cameron Partners and Northington Partners said there’s a “compelling” case for each member to merge, with Canterbury Building Society and South Cross Building Society each facing a “particularly challenging” environment, and giving them more to gain from a successful merger."

[gonzo56]

Looks like its 1.5c!

[rocketship]

Yes, nice and welcoming surprise

[climbtree]

Is the reinvestment plan worth it? 2% discount on the VWAP of preceeding 5 days or whatever, that's less than 1.5 cents a share which the share price is likely to drop by (?). Is there a tax advantage in doing this if you're in the 60,000 and above braket or what would be the incentive to come under the reinvestment plan? Have I misinterpreted something?

A lot of positive news from PGC as of late though.

[ETC]

I’ve just read that PGC have entered an agreement with First NZ Capital Securities to underwrite their dividend reinvestment plan. Is that normal? Why do PGC need to underwrite their dividend reinvestment plan?

[mikew]

sp is heading to south, seems to me 1.5c dividend is offset by future uncertain, any thoughts?

[geezy]

readjusting from dividend i believe

[mouse]

Which makes taking shares instead of the cash possibly a good buy. The shares adjust for the dividend and you get a 2% discount on that. The only problem is,... will the shares go up or down in the nearish future?
readjusting from dividend i believe

[geezy]

PGC is probably a much much longer shot :) then again there arent many interesting prospects in the NZ market at the moment. PGC looks better than the rest IMO

[rabcat]

PGC is probably a much much longer shot :) then again there arent many interesting prospects in the NZ market at the moment. PGC looks better than the rest IMO

I always like to see which directors take up shares instead of dividend.

Also feel that PGC is well placed to grow as the economy strenghtens. They seem to have spend a lot of time improving their processes and thinking about their leaning policy. Also seem to be continuously improving the quality of their senior staff. If they become a bank the money will pour in.

In the medium term the current share price could look cheap.

[JayPe]

They seem to have spend a lot of time improving their processes and thinking about their leaning policy.

That's really interesting. I think a lot of companies these days don't spend enough time on their leaning policy - some of them probably don't think about it at all ...

[COLIN]

That's really interesting. I think a lot of companies these days don't spend enough time on their leaning policy - some of them probably don't think about it at all ...

LOL!

Perhaps PGC have in fact been spending too much time just leaning, instead of working in the interests of shareholders. Leaning on their "old" name, leaning on the South Island "ethos", leaning on getting this fabulous banking licence which is going to open the floodgates to untold riches. But the market doesn't believe their strategy - just look at the chart at the bottom of this thread, it tells it all. I don't know why any astute investor is bothering with this crowd these days. Watch it, yes, for a suitable entry point if it starts to take off, but meantime invest elsewhere. And if you don't want to desert the NZX, or the South Island, perhaps you should be taking a look at EBO, a consistent little performer. Compare it with PGC, over the past couple of years, and you will see what I mean.

[Marilyn Munroe]

Colin said;

"Leaning on their "old" name, leaning on the South Island "ethos", leaning on getting this fabulous banking licence which is going to open the floodgates to untold riches."

As a CBSCanterbury shareholder I have been surprised at the lack of any reaction either, positive or negative, to the proposed merger amongst the CBSCanterbury shareholders and customers of my acquaintance in the heartland.

My opinion is that the CBSCanterbury balance sheet will be used as fodder for the irrationally exuberant nobs at Pyne Gould Corporation who have no history of long term dependability.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[kizame]

Crikey you guys are so negative-- makes me smile-- oh and by the way Colin,i have followed and been a shareholder of ebos,their shareprice mostly has not always been on the up and up,over past years the shareprice languished on long occasions even though the company was making aquisitions and had a bright future--it is only at this moment that the price is looking rosey for holders,as it is getting some scale in the market.
Wait and see with PGC and give them some credit for a change,gosh they even announced a special divvy,but some people will never be happy aye.

[Marilyn Munroe]

Kizame CBSCanterbury does what the Americans call 345[1] banking. Pay your depositors 3% charge your borrowers 4% and be on the golf course by 5.

CBSCanterbury is very good at this type of banking as they have been at it since 1875 and survived the Great Depression, Rodger Douglas's Rural Slump and the 1987 Share Market Crash.

Now all of a sudden they want to hook up with a bunch of balance sheet leverage experts and are looking forward to being bossed around by the Reserve bank.

Why? Do the shareholders of CBSCanterbury know what is in store for them?

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[1] Yes I know the numbers do not match NZ rates, but you get the point I am trying to make right?

[COLIN]

Crikey you guys are so negative-- makes me smile-- oh and by the way Colin,i have followed and been a shareholder of ebos,their shareprice mostly has not always been on the up and up,over past years the shareprice languished on long occasions even though the company was making aquisitions and had a bright future--it is only at this moment that the price is looking rosey for holders,as it is getting some scale in the market.
Wait and see with PGC and give them some credit for a change,gosh they even announced a special divvy,but some people will never be happy aye.

I'm not too sure why you're smiling, Kizame. The point I was making is that PGC's share price continues to languish. I guess a lot depends on one's time frame, and mine is probably a lot shorter than yours as I classify myself as an "active investor", but EBO's share price has increased by 22% over the past 12 months while PGC's has declined by 14% over the same period.

For the record, I have been in and out of EBO several times, over the years, and have also held PGC a couple of times, so I am well aware of their price histories. Its all a matter of timing.

[ETC]

You're right Colin PGC’s share price is languishing and probably will continue to languish until the company has jumped through all the hoops to obtain a banking license. Even then we’ll have to wait awhile to see if the “Heartland” concept finds any traction with kiwis and the community. I see this investment as something similar to an IPO and a chance to get in on the ground floor of a local bank. PGC have outlined their strategy now we just have to wait and see what happens. Should know if the idea has wings in about 5 to 10 years.

[mouse]

My difficulty is that PyneGould want to be a bank, yet their expertise is in motor vehicle finance. CBS has housing finance expertise. But what is it they are going to be lending on? Is the Reserve Bank going to hand out a banking license for a large finance company? And if they are a finance company, do they have stuff they do besides cars? I do not know and would like some opinions please.

You're right Colin PGC’s share price is languishing and probably will continue to languish until the company has jumped through all the hoops to obtain a banking license. Even then we’ll have to wait awhile to see if the “Heartland” concept finds any traction with kiwis and the community. I see this investment as something similar to an IPO and a chance to get in on the ground floor of a local bank. PGC have outlined their strategy now we just have to wait and see what happens. Should know if the idea has wings in about 5 to 10 years.

[Marilyn Munroe]

Mouse asked;

But what is it they are going to be lending on?

Oooh ooh I know! Credit default swaps written on mortgage backed securities secured by Latvian houses and denominated in Euros.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[JayPe]

Did you also see the news recently that PGC are valuing their stake in PGG Wrightson at $113.7m, despite the Market Value of said stake being worth $73.8m. Why? Because "It is the company's view that the market value is not a reasonable proxy of the fair value".

How dodgy is that? Have they been taking lessons from AIG perhaps? The fairest value is the market value. If they need to sell that investment tomorrow they're not going to get $110m+ for it are they? So why put it in the books that way?

[Marilyn Munroe]

There is an interesting item on Bernard Hickeys web site www.interest.co.nz in which he dissects a press release by the Trustee Corporations Association.

He goes on to make a roll call of finance company trust deeds supervised by PGC subsidiary Perpetual Trustees which are on his Deep Freeze list.

Of particular interest is his examination of Reserve Bank Governor Allan Bollards comments lifted from his book "Crisis: One central bank governor and the global financial collapse" in a paragraph titled Bollard Grumpy.

The take away line is the Governors description of the reaction of some trustee companies to his inquiries about how they were going to do better next time.

The quote; "Some of them were surprised, indeed angry, at our response."

One wonders if there is a lot of empathy between PGC and the Governor.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/trustees-safe-guarded-finance-companies-welcome-rise-kiwisaver-funds-source-revenue-growth

[Balance]

There is an interesting item on Bernard Hickeys web site www.interest.co.nz in which he dissects a press release by the Trustee Corporations Association.

He goes on to make a roll call of finance company trust deeds supervised by PGC subsidiary Perpetual Trustees which are on his Deep Freeze list.

Of particular interest is his examination of Reserve Bank Governor Allan Bollards comments lifted from his book "Crisis: One central bank governor and the global financial collapse" in a paragraph titled Bollard Grumpy.

The take away line is the Governors description of the reaction of some trustee companies to his inquiries about how they were going to do better next time.

The quote; "Some of them were surprised, indeed angry, at our response."

One wonders if there is a lot of empathy between PGC and the Governor.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

http://www.interest.co.nz/news/trustees-safe-guarded-finance-companies-welcome-rise-kiwisaver-funds-source-revenue-growth

And Allan Bollard as Reserve Bank governor sat in the background there and let billions of investors' money burned away with the finance companies.

Did anyone ever read anything from him regarding the risks of putting money into the finance companies?

There is a reason why he is called "Behind the curve Bollard" in the financial markets - always very good after the fact.

[gonzo56]

Can someone please explain what PGC are planning to do with the new bank shares in layman's terms?
Are they going to dilute the pgc share and give us the new bank shares to compensate for that or...?

[Balance]

Can someone please explain what PGC are planning to do with the new bank shares in layman's terms?
Are they going to dilute the pgc share and give us the new bank shares to compensate for that or...?

Basically you will get x number of Bank shares for every y number of PGC shares you hold. x and y to be determined at a future date - based upon valuations etc.

Given George Kerr's track record, means all parts of PGC are now readied for sale or distribution.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/blogs/the-bottom-line/4346639/A-genetically-modified-Pyne-Gould

[gonzo56]

Ok thanks, thats what I wanted confirming. I couldn't believe that they would give away free shares, but ok, sounds good!

[ETC]

I’m weary of what will eventually happen to PGC. I don’t want to be left holding shares in a company that is made up of bad loans and a trustee business. Also it'll be interesting to see what percentage is given to shareholders and what percentage is placed with institutions.

[percy]

I’m weary of what will eventually happen to PGC. I don’t want to be left holding shares in a company that is made up of bad loans and a trustee business. Also it'll be interesting to see what percentage is given to shareholders and what percentage is placed with institutions.

I expect most rural shareholders are use to buying "a pig in poke". Nether the less the non Marac part of PGC is very substantial and has potential to surprise.

[mouse]

I went to this today, 26 November.:)
It seems that we are to all be given shares in the new banking group, which cannot be called a bank yet.:cool:
Pyne will hold some of the shares in the bank also and sell them to fund its expansion into its new business. Whatever that is.:sleep:
So the new bank will need more capital soon after starting and could make a cash call.:D
Dividends in the future will rest with the new bank directors. So maybe none for a year or so. I dont know, that is just a surmise.:p
We will all keep shares in Pyne Gould. So will have two lots of shares on the stock exchange. There will probably be a sell/buy market set up by Pyne to help small shareholders liquidate their holdings without broker fees. Also to let holdings increase without fees by matching buyers and sellers.:mellow:
If I can remember anything else will post it. Note I could be totally wrong on this post.:eek2:

[mouse]

Next, comment from one of the Directors that Wrightson only has 2% of Rural lending. Plus Marac has a lot of experience with lending on tractors and has not had those loans go bad.

[percy]

stuff.co.nz business day.
Jeff Greenslade said,"The proposed 'heartland bank' will not raise capital when it lists as planned with the NZX in late January.'
Nice to know we can have a spend up at Xmas without having to put money aside for a cash issue.

[mouse]

stuff.co.nz business day.
Jeff Greenslade said,"The proposed 'heartland bank' will not raise capital when it lists as planned with the NZX in late January.'
Nice to know we can have a spend up at Xmas without having to put money aside for a cash issue.

Percy, cash calls are a part of life today!

[Marilyn Munroe]

Percy, cash calls are a part of life today!

Parse Mr Greenslade's words carefully.

No there will be a pause as the share price increases as institutions load plus an unrelenting torrent of positive spin, then whamo!

After all we would not want the big cheeses to become too diluted now would we.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[percy]

The SP will have to be at a healthy premium before anyone becomes diluted.I think most PGC shareholders have that tired delooted look about them.

[Xerof]

Absolutely right Ms Munro - not late January, but there's always early February.......

[ETC]

Why exactly does everyone think that the “Heartland Bank” will tap investors for more capital in the New Year? The prospectus shows 300m of equity that’s a pretty big cushion and enough to cover the new banking regulations.

[percy]

On page 30 information memorandum;Equity Capital Base,
The combined shareholders' equity of the merger parties as a percentage of total assets was approximately 13%.compared to the average of their listed,australian BBB- rated peers of approximately of 5.44%.

[ETC]

If people are interested here's a link to Jeff Greenslade talking about the merger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPt5yyoC-0

[Xerof]

Why exactly does everyone think that the “Heartland Bank” will tap investors for more capital in the New Year?

I don't - simply pointing out that comments can be taken at face value, or applied to suit if the occasion arises

[winner69]

I found this interesting from Milford Asset Management - 'The holding in Pyne Gould Corporation was sold because of the company’s inability to clearly enunciate its future structure'

Milford thinking PGC in a bit of a muddle at the moment?

Bad month for them ... crystalising what must be a loss on PGC and taking a hot in PRC and NZO

[percy]

I found this interesting from Milford Asset Management - 'The holding in Pyne Gould Corporation was sold because of the company’s inability to clearly enunciate its future structure'

Milford thinking PGC in a bit of a muddle at the moment?

Bad month for them ... crystalising what must be a loss on PGC and taking a hot in PRC and NZO

Do they hold WDT?

[winner69]

Do they hold WDT?

Percy .... don't appeat to

Hold things like Ryman, Restaurant Sky and Tower along with a lot of others ... except PGC now course

[percy]

winner69.
thank you for your reply.I can understand Milford's thinking,as all the talk has been about "The Bank",but that is only half of PGC's assets.Yet no talk of the future of PGC.
Greenslade ,and others ofcourse go to the bank.What,Milford,and PGC shareholders would like to know is what is going to happen to PGW shareholding,Problem realestate loans,Torchlight,Thames Water and Moto and the 30mil Marac are repaying.
The fact that the board need to consult First Capital NZ for advice seems to indicates to me a lack of clear direction.
The bank will be valuable,and there is value in the retained assets,so is an interesting share to hold.Should PGC stay listed there appears they will be in a good position to continue to pay divies.Any sale of PGW or realestate assets could result in a capital repayment.

[rabcat]

Early next year PGC shareholders will be issued with shares in the Heartland bank as well as keeping their PGC shares? (I have got that right?)

Has there been any indications what the likely value of the new banking shares will be or to what value the PGC shares will fall to given that their biggest asset Marac will be merged into the new bank?

What I find hard to understand is how PGC has made steady progress over the last year to put this bank in place and yet the share price continues to go backwards????

[Cannibal]

The long process to secure the merger of Marac Finance with two buildingsocieties cleared another hurdle today with the High Court granting finalorders for the merger to create a $2.2 billion financial services group with aspirationsto be a bank.
The court orders help pave the way for the merger to be implemented in earlyJanuary.
Shares in the merged group holding company, Building Society HoldingsLimited (BSHL), will be issued to on January 7 to shareholders of Ashburton'sCBS Canterbury shares and Auckland's Southern Cross Building Society.
CBS Canterbury will delist from the NZAX at the end of trading today andtrading in Auckland's Southern Cross shares will cease as well.
Pyne Gould Corporation, the parent of Marac, will hold the balance ofshares- 72 per cent of the 300 million shares in BSHL - and intends todistribute most of them to its shareholders in the first half of next year andsell a small portion to institutions.
Listing of BSHL is expected to take place on January 31.
The managing director-designate of BSHL, Jeff Greenslade, said "Staffand boards of all three organisations have worked tirelessly to get this mergeracross the line.
''It has been heartening that our respective shareholders and investors havegiven their resounding thumbs up to our vision to create a new stronger organisation that can better service the needs of our target market - namelythe banking market for SMEs, rural businesses and NZ individuals andfamilies.''
The merger has required the green light from seven stakeholder groups. Seven meetings and voting on the merger has taken place in the past three weeks inAuckland, Christchurch and Ashburton.
"The merger brings us scale through a nationwide presence andestablishes a platform for growth. It allows us to play to our regional strengths and pick the markets where we have expertise and to adopt a 'customer first' focus.
''It also improves our chances of an investment grade credit rating and tosuccessfully gain banking registration from the Reserve Bank,'' Greenslade said.

[percy]

Right rabcat here goes.
PGC will own 72% of the 300mil "The Bank" shares.Should they sell 5% to institutions,67% or 201mil will be distributed to PGC sharesholders PGC has 773.5mil shares on issue.so 201mil divided by 773.5 is .26. So for every 10,000 PGC shares you will receive approx 2,600 shares of "The Bank".and still have 10,000 PGC shares.
If you believe half of PGC goes into "The Bank" Go 10,000 PGC at market price is $3,700 divide by 2 {half} is $1850 value divide by the 2600 is 71cent for the bank shares ,and you still have $1850 of value for you 10,000 PGC shares ,or 18.5 cents.
At 1st feb you will have 10,000 PGC shares @ 18.5cents worth $1850
.and 2,600 "the Bank"shares worth 71cents each $1850. Total value is $3,700 which is what 10,000 shares are trading at today.
Now the fun starts.Should you think "The Bank" will trade at $1 and PGC at 22cents ,you have 2600 "The Bank" shares worth $2,600 and 10,000 PGC at 22cents worth $2200. Total value $4,800.Even funner if you value each "The Bank"shares at $1.25 and each PGC at 25cents.2600 @1.25 $3,250 10,000 PGC @.25 is $2500,
so total is $5750 which means PGC should be trading at 57.5cents per share today which is still under NTA.

[SCOTTY]

Hi Percy. You make some good points here.

Following the last divi, most shareholders took shares in leui, so there are now 803.94million shares on issue. As you say, 72% of the 300 mill. new 'Bank" shares would be 216 mill. shares for PGC. Say they distribute on a 1:4 ratio that would leave approx 15 mill. "Bank" shares to place with the Institutions. A nice little bonus for PGC shareholders assuming that they sell for a good premium, especially when Marac repays the $30mill. loan to PGC as well!!

The CBS shareholders should by my calculations receive 44.24 mill. "Bank" shares and with only 12.5 mill. shares on issue at CBS this would be approx 3.54 "Bank" shares for each CBS share. At the last buy quote of $2.98 the new "Bank" shares have a theoretical value of 84c. Applying this valuation, each PGC share has approx 22.5c worth of the new "Bank" (804mill. divided by 216mill.) shares. Only leaves 14.5c of residue in PGC @ todays price of 37c!! with the current NTA of 55.5c you would think it should be more like 33c.

I think we will have to wait for the HY result to know what the non "Bank" assets in PGC are actually worth. Could be very interesting.

[percy]

Hi Percy. You make some good points here.

Following the last divi, most shareholders took shares in leui, so there are now 803.94million shares on issue. As you say, 72% of the 300 mill. new 'Bank" shares would be 216 mill. shares for PGC. Say they distribute on a 1:4 ratio that would leave approx 15 mill. "Bank" shares to place with the Institutions. A nice little bonus for PGC shareholders assuming that they sell for a good premium, especially when Marac repays the $30mill. loan to PGC as well!!

The CBS shareholders should by my calculations receive 44.24 mill. "Bank" shares and with only 12.5 mill. shares on issue at CBS this would be approx 3.54 "Bank" shares for each CBS share. At the last buy quote of $2.98 the new "Bank" shares have a theoretical value of 84c. Applying this valuation, each PGC share has approx 22.5c worth of the new "Bank" (804mill. divided by 216mill.) shares. Only leaves 14.5c of residue in PGC @ todays price of 37c!! with the current NTA of 55.5c you would think it should be more like 33c.

I think we will have to wait for the HY result to know what the non "Bank" assets in PGC are actually worth. Could be very interesting.

Thanks scotty.I forgot about the dividend reinvestment shares.Very positive that so many decided to take shares,not cash.I see that the directors took shares.
I think you analysis of working through from a CBS shareholder's ,is the best way to work out a "market"value of a "The Bank"share and your figure of 84cents is sound. 14.5 cents per PGC share!!! now that is interesting as all the directors and management hold PGC shares,and like us all have to waite for the distribution of "The Bank" shares after which directors and managemrnt still hold PGC shares. 14.5cents????? Fun times for anybody who can think past two or three months.

[SCOTTY]

Thanks scotty.I forgot about the dividend reinvestment shares.Very positive that so many decided to take shares,not cash.I see that the directors took shares.
I think you analysis of working through from a CBS shareholder's ,is the best way to work out a "market"value of a "The Bank"share and your figure of 84cents is sound. 14.5 cents per PGC share!!! now that is interesting as all the directors and management hold PGC shares,and like us all have to waite for the distribution of "The Bank" shares after which directors and managemrnt still hold PGC shares. 14.5cents????? Fun times for anybody who can think past two or three months.

Hi Percy

Just had another look at CBS.

The NTA is about $3.21 per share. Divide that by the 3.54 = 91c per new "Bank" share. This is only the NTA!! How many time NTA do banks usually trade at?

Cheers

[Jaa]

Interesting analysis guys.

How much is their PGW holding worth per PGC share?

[kizame]

Interesting analysis guys.

How much is their PGW holding worth per PGC share?

by my rough calculations about 7.8c/share. at pgw share price of 44c.

[percy]

SP of PGW .46cents x 758mil shares gives market cap of $348.68 .PGC own I think 18% which is $62.6 mil divided by 803.9 mil PGC shares .
so PGW make up just under 8cents per PGC share,however if go to PGC directors valuation of PGW it is nearer 14cents.
Please note my figures are approx,but not too far away.
Nice to see I am not far off kizame's figure.

[rabcat]

Percy

Thanks for starting to answer my questions, it make interesting reading and is sort of what i was thinking, that potentially PGC shareholders will be better off after the banks comes into being.

However the market says the opposite with the share price falling to 36 cents.( I was expecting as the approvals came through from the various parties that the share price would have moved to 45-46 cents.)

I was thinking this might be because PGC will fall out of the NZX 50 which would mean a number of funds would have to sell off their holdings in PGC and perhaps they have starting doing that already? Presumably PGC not being in the NZX50 will depress there share price?

Who will replace PGC in the NZX50, will this be the Bank?

[percy]

Percy

Thanks for starting to answer my questions, it make interesting reading and is sort of what i was thinking, that potentially PGC shareholders will be better off after the banks comes into being.

However the market says the opposite with the share price falling to 36 cents.( I was expecting as the approvals came through from the various parties that the share price would have moved to 45-46 cents.)

I was thinking this might be because PGC will fall out of the NZX 50 which would mean a number of funds would have to sell off their holdings in PGC and perhaps they have starting doing that already? Presumably PGC not being in the NZX50 will depress there share price?

Who will replace PGC in the NZX50, will this be the Bank?

I think the talk of the distribution not being in Jan/Feb but in the first 6 months has gone down like a lead balloon!!! I would expect THE Bank will be in the top 50,but at present there is a wall of sellers.Dangerous buying against the trend. After THE Bank, there are/is valuable [I think] assets in PGC.We need to know the future direction of PGC , before we can really know if we are right or wrong.One day I think it is a great buy,the next I do not know,but trying to answer your questions makes for a clearer view of PGC and THE Bank. The south Canterbury Finance receivership,and finance companies being out of favour is certainly tainting PGC and THE Bank.May be a case of buying a sun hat in the middle of winter?

[percy]

The Ch-Ch Press this morning.
PGC has clarified that its shareholders will get their shares in the new @2.2 billion financial services group in March and there will be no delay to the distribution.

[rabcat]

I think the talk of the distribution not being in Jan/Feb but in the first 6 months has gone down like a lead balloon!!! I would expect THE Bank will be in the top 50,but at present there is a wall of sellers.Dangerous buying against the trend. After THE Bank, there are/is valuable [I think] assets in PGC.We need to know the future direction of PGC , before we can really know if we are right or wrong.One day I think it is a great buy,the next I do not know,but trying to answer your questions makes for a clearer view of PGC and THE Bank. The south Canterbury Finance receivership,and finance companies being out of favour is certainly tainting PGC and THE Bank.May be a case of buying a sun hat in the middle of winter?


I always thought buying against the trend was a good way to make a profit!

Finance companies may be unfashionable at present but they will not always be. I think they have been clever in bring together 3 businesses which have been long established to produce a strong entity. I think people will see the The Bank as having strong credibilty and will like the NZ ownership, this will mean it is well positioned in 12 months time or so to take advantage of inprovements in the economy.

As for PGC I would say that George Kerr has a strong record of building businesses. I would be confident that he has been thinking of what should happen to PGC after the Bank comes into being. If they didnt have plans then they could have keep all the bank shares in PGC and then the issue would not have come up!

[Marilyn Munroe]

I think people will see the The Bank ...............and will like the NZ ownership,



You mean like
Bank of New Zealand
New Zealand Insurance, and
New Zealand Herald.

We'll see.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[Marilyn Munroe]

As for PGC I would say that George Kerr has a strong record of building businesses.


I am backing the gremlins of the stock and station industry in their battle with the Lords of the Deal.

Prince Norgate of Hawera has been defeated on the battlefield and Prince Kerr of Sydney can see the glow of their camp fires at night from the battlements.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[percy]

so PGC will accept $83 mil for their PGW holding.With 803.9 PGC shares that works out at 10.3cents per PGC share.
Nice capital distribution.???!!!! to PGC shareholders.

[gonzo56]

They lost on that sale didn't they... I can't see any distribution happening, the share has reacted positively on the news of their loss though...

[Marilyn Munroe]

Prince Kerr of Sydney can see the glow of their camp fires at night from the battlements.



I assumed the campfires were from the gremlins that haunt the stock and station industry. Turns out it was the People's Liberation Army.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[rabcat]

so PGC will accept $83 mil for their PGW holding.With 803.9 PGC shares that works out at 10.3cents per PGC share.
Nice capital distribution.???!!!! to PGC shareholders.

Last week Percy you estimated PGC would be worth 14 cents/share after the Bank is split. So if we got 10.3 per share for PGW then we will own an Asset management business for next to nothing with some very good contracts in place with "The Bank" for 5 years.
Also interesting that the government announced that it will open up ACC to the private sector, just the sort of growth opportunity that an Asset management business could be looking for?

[percy]

Last week Percy you estimated PGC would be worth 14 cents/share after the Bank is split. So if we got 10.3 per share for PGW then we will own an Asset management business for next to nothing with some very good contracts in place with "The Bank" for 5 years.
Also interesting that the government announced that it will open up ACC to the private sector, just the sort of growth opportunity that an Asset management business could be looking for?

Starting to look as though 3.7cents for Asset management is good value.? I read todays announcement,and it was sober reading,with write downs here, there ,and everywhere.But if we think of CASH we have $83mil from PGW share sales and another $30mil coming from Marac,and nothing to spend it on.

[rabcat]

Starting to look as though 3.7cents for Asset management is good value.? I read todays announcement,and it was sober reading,with write downs here, there ,and everywhere.But if we think of CASH we have $83mil from PGW share sales and another $30mil coming from Marac,and nothing to spend it on.

Yes I was a bit worried too , to begin with. But there are losses and there are losses. Some of these losses are just on paper and dont really mean any thing.
They have been carrying PGW at an inflated value for 2 years because of some accounting thing.

I was always taught that a dollar today is worth nothing in 5 years. Cash is king and as you have worked out they have a whole lot of cash to build a new business with.
I think it puts them in a good position going forward.

The question for me is Jeff Greenslade goes to the The Bank, George Gould has been named GM for PGW, who will lead this new business with $113m to invest?

[Balance]

Yes I was a bit worried too , to begin with. But there are losses and there are losses. Some of these losses are just on paper and dont really mean any thing.
They have been carrying PGW at an inflated value for 2 years because of some accounting thing.

I was always taught that a dollar today is worth nothing in 5 years. Cash is king and as you have worked out they have a whole lot of cash to build a new business with.
I think it puts them in a good position going forward.

The question for me is Jeff Greenslade goes to the The Bank, George Gould has been named GM for PGW, who will lead this new business with $113m to invest?

It will be sold.

[percy]

It will be sold.

For Cash.?

[ETC]

Well it looks like BSHL achieved its investment grade credit rating (BBB-)

[Balance]

For Cash.?

Percy - you have your answer.

Now watch PGC carefully over the next 3 weeks - the real action starts next week.

[voltage]

could i have some comment whether it is a good buy at 38 cents, what is its future potential?

[percy]

could i have some comment whether it is a good buy at 38 cents, what is its future potential?

No.!! looks positive but huge number of sellers think otherwise.Until there is an indication of the future of PGC less "THE BANK" it is unclear.

[Balance]

No.!! looks positive but huge number of sellers think otherwise.Until there is an indication of the future of PGC less "THE BANK" it is unclear.

Exactly - many nervous players out there wondering how the break-up of PGC will take shape.

[ETC]

I want out after I've been allocated my shares in THE BANK! I'm guessing a lot of investors feel the same. Voltage if you're buying PGC for its wealth management business I'd wait a few weeks the SP will probably drop quite a bit.

[percy]

I want out after I've been allocated my shares in THE BANK! I'm guessing a lot of investors feel the same. Voltage if you're buying PGC for its wealth management business I'd wait a few weeks the SP will probably drop quite a bit.

It is interesting the directors each hold large numbers of PGC shares.Ofcourse they will receive"THE BANK" shares.However I have not seen any sell,so they have cash to buy "THE BANK"shares.Will they retain their PGC shares.? Will they sell PGC shares to buy more "THE BANK"shares,or will they sell"THE BANK"shares as PGC shares look too cheap.Looks as though we will live in interesting times.!!!!

[ETC]

You've pretty much summed it up Percy, no one knows! I can't wait till we get some direction on what's happening.

[Xerof]

I'm hearing it's a case of "last one out of the boardroom, please turn off the lights"..........

Balance seems to know the oil -
It will be sold.

[winner69]

See the world of bankers have yet to get over lining their own pockets with free shares etc ... all in the interest of 'aligning the interests of senior management with those of PGC shareholders' .... yeah right

[percy]

Interesting to see DB's site shows PGC with a NTA value of 55c. Given the ensuing highjinks that are planned, I'd guess that much of this will be realised. There's a big gap between current sp at 36 and 55c.

I wonder how the new bank would look if PGW Finance and FPA Finance were rolled into it? (Yes, I'm working this through now ;) )

Just musing folks, ;)

I think FPA Finance would fit in perfectly.

[percy]

See the world of bankers have yet to get over lining their own pockets with free shares etc ... all in the interest of 'aligning the interests of senior management with those of PGC shareholders' .... yeah right

We are not amused.!!

[ETC]

4.4 million shares for putting a deal together, what will they be giving themselves if everything works out?

Share your displeasure: http://www.pgc.co.nz/content/contacts/default.aspx (http://www.pgc.co.nz/content/contacts/default.aspx)

[winner69]

We are not amused.!!


Take it that means you think these free shares (sorry a bonus) is not a good idea?

What else would you expect in the this world of greed and excesses in this industry (or for that the whole corporate world)

One day the world will revolt

[percy]

So what happens to whats left of PGC ??? ... If PGW Fin goes to CBS, then whats left of PGC and PGW get merged?

this is the $64,000 question we have tried or started to work out from my post No. 438 on this thread.

[percy]

Take it that means you think these free shares (sorry a bonus) is not a good idea?

What else would you expect in the this world of greed and excesses in this industry (or for that the whole corporate world)

One day the world will revolt

Well unfortunately I am still ever hopeful companies will be run for the benefit of shareholders.Looks as though I have again been proved wrong.Staff come first.!!!

[percy]

It is interesting the directors each hold large numbers of PGC shares.Ofcourse they will receive"THE BANK" shares.However I have not seen any sell,so they have cash to buy "THE BANK"shares.Will they retain their PGC shares.? Will they sell PGC shares to buy more "THE BANK"shares,or will they sell"THE BANK"shares as PGC shares look too cheap.Looks as though we will live in interesting times.!!!!

Interesting enough the shares handed out to the boys [like GPG] are PGC shares.

[Balance]

Interesting enough the shares handed out to the boys [like GPG] are PGC shares.

Ironically, they can buy cheaper on the market - 36 cents versus 37 cents.

[percy]

Ironically, they can buy cheaper on the market - 36 cents versus 37 cents.

What do you mean ? Buy ?! Who is buying ?? The boys like "the hard earned" Yeah right !! Free ones.

[Balance]

What do you mean ? Buy ?! Who is buying ?? The boys like "the hard earned" Yeah right !! Free ones.

Agreed - free ones for the boys.

But PGC could have bought in market cheaper to give.

[percy]

Agreed - free ones for the boys.

But PGC could have bought in market cheaper to give.

Come on Balance.Yeah right. But, no one is buying anything.!!! Just transfering shareholder's wealth to the boys.!!

[mikew]

Just transfering shareholder's wealth to the boys.!!


These boys have made great contributions to our shareholders:)

[SCOTTY]

BSHL to start trading on Tuesday - should be interesting: NTA apparently 88c. What will it open at?

Banks seem to trade at a premium to NTA eg.:

ANZ-NZX $30.20 NTA $14.40
WBC-NZX $29.20 NTA $12.58
In Aussie CBA $52.39 NTA $15.94, MQG $41.34 NTA $25.21

By my calculations, each PGC share should have at least .25 of a BSHL share = 22c NTA, plus say 10cps for PGGW = 32c. At todays price of 36c, the residue of PGC is only worth 4cps!! PGC seems like a pretty good buy to me especially if BSHL trades above 88c.

[percy]

These boys have made great contributions to our shareholders:)

Yeah right.! SP at 36cents,Mr Market disagrees with you,as do shareholders who fronted up with fresh shareholders' funds at 40cents,or more.!
We have all seen the bonus's paid to bankers who lost shareholders' funds in other contries,now we are seeing it here before they have even got going.
Next we will see the "hard working" board get a nice slice of the free stuff.Start as you mean to continue, sends the wrong signals to shareholders, and the market that wants to see a tangible peice of evidence that "THE BANK" is generating wealth.

[percy]

BSHL to start trading on Tuesday - should be interesting: NTA apparently 88c. What will it open at?

Banks seem to trade at a premium to NTA eg.:

ANZ-NZX $30.20 NTA $14.40
WBC-NZX $29.20 NTA $12.58
In Aussie CBA $52.39 NTA $15.94, MQG $41.34 NTA $25.21

By my calculations, each PGC share should have at least .25 of a BSHL share = 22c NTA, plus say 10cps for PGGW = 32c. At todays price of 36c, the residue of PGC is only worth 4cps!! PGC seems like a pretty good buy to me especially if BSHL trades above 88c.

Thank you for that information Scotty.Most interesting.Like us all I look forward to seeing what "THE BANK"trades at.As I am often proven wrong I will open the betting at over $1.00.Now that will be interesting.What happens if "THE BANK" comes on under NTA,will the boys have to give back their free shares.?

[SCOTTY]

Thank you for that information Scotty.Most interesting.Like us all I look forward to seeing what "THE BANK"trades at.As I am often proven wrong I will open the betting at over $1.00.Now that will be interesting.What happens if "THE BANK" comes on under NTA,will the boys have to give back their free shares.?

Hi Percy

"The Bank" @ $1 = 25cps for PGC. Plus 10c for PGW leaves only 1cps for the other residual assets in PGC. The book value would probably be about 30c NTA per share even after writing down the NTA for the lower value of PGW (in the books @ 80c with sale price around 60c). We live in interesting times!!

With the 2 Georges (Kerr and Gould) having so much "skin in the game" I would imagine there will be a few clever ideas for the PGC shell. Any ideas?

Cheers

[percy]

Hi Percy

"The Bank" @ $1 = 25cps for PGC. Plus 10c for PGW leaves only 1cps for the other residual assets in PGC. The book value would probably be about 30c NTA per share even after writing down the NTA for the lower value of PGW (in the books @ 80c with sale price around 60c). We live in interesting times!!

With the 2 Georges (Kerr and Gould) having so much "skin in the game" I would imagine there will be a few clever ideas for the PGC shell. Any ideas?

Cheers

Interesting post SCOTTY.Very interesting times.Torchlight were the first to be paid out by SCF,do not suppose that money is sitting at call at Kiwi Bank.!!! 100 to 150 mil.?
As you point out 1c buys a lot.!!!!!!!! As Gould will be running PGW,and most of the others going to "THE BANK" I think we will see PGC go where Kerr has the experience.:
Funds management,Torchlight,Thames Water 7 Moto,and other funds not suitable for "THE BANK".However I think we will see Kerr use his property dealing expertise to sort out the left over property loans ex MARAC and use his property connections to do some good deals not suitable for"THE BANK" .I would expect there is a que a mile long of hard pushed "wide boys" at Kerr's door with all sorts of deals no one else will finance.He has a good record,but whether it is suitable for a listed company we will soon find out.I keep looking at your figures and think PGC is a raging buy,then I see all the sellers,and the dreadful for the boys hand out and am just watching with interest.

[SCOTTY]

".I keep looking at your figures and think PGC is a raging buy,then I see all the sellers,and the dreadful for the boys hand out and am just watching with interest.

2.6mil shares for sale @ 36 - 40c is not a lot for a co with 808mil shares on issue IMHO.

[percy]

2.6mil shares for sale @ 36 - 40c is not a lot for a co with 808mil shares on issue IMHO.

Agreed.
However under 550,000 on the buy side is not a lot for a co with 808 mil shares on issue. !!!!????? Just happens to be five times the number on the sale side.

[geezy]

Agreed.
However under 550,000 on the buy side is not a lot for a co with 808 mil shares on issue. !!!!????? Just happens to be five times the number on the sale side.

welcome to the nzx percy :D

[percy]

welcome to the nzx percy :D
Thank you geezy.I am hoping that other posters may be able to add to the discussion as to whether PGC is a ragging buy or not!! I have posted a lot but know very little.

[percy]

These boys have made great contributions to our shareholders:)

No they have not.A year ago the SP was 48cents.Last sale 36cents.So the boys have lost the shareholders 25% in one year.

[Anna Naum]

PGC shell + Macquarie Bank Private Client division = new Funds Management listed vehicle.....Kerr and Co are long term mates of Macquarie (couple of them used to have senior positions with Macquarie) they also did the Macquarie led Thames Water etc deals. Maybe its the next Platinum??

[percy]

PGC shell + Macquarie Bank Private Client division = new Funds Management listed vehicle.....Kerr and Co are long term mates of Macquarie (couple of them used to have senior positions with Macquarie) they also did the Macquarie led Thames Water etc deals. Maybe its the next Platinum??

If that post does not add some spark to the SP nothing will. Makes a lot of sense to me.

[kizame]

Guys I believe it's better to wait and see what happens.
I have always found that to wish or hope or speculate often leads to results nothing like you may have hoped for.
And therefore disappointment,I'm sure we've all been there before. I just go with the idea that these guys are dealmakers and don't like to lose.
But it is a pity we don't have(or are not being told about) a game plan post BSH,also the percentage of shares they are going to hold back for sale to institutions,if we knew the game plan maybe the percentage wouldn't matter so much.
As shareholders I would have thought we needed to know this stuff.

[percy]

I see G Gould has stepped down from PGC board.I suppose he will have enough to do at PGW.I wonder if he will hold on to his shares in PGC.?

[geezy]

percy, just like u , i m waiting to see what they will do with PGC. no one really knows, just gotta wait and see. I m currently overweight on PGC, just to reconfirm, PGC holders will get free "bank" shares right? IMHO they should just take PGC private and concentrate on the "bank"

[ETC]

Does anyone have any idea how much the residual assets in PGC are worth after they’ve sold out of PGW and transferred over the BSH shares?

[SCOTTY]

Does anyone have any idea how much the residual assets in PGC are worth after they’ve sold out of PGW and transferred over the BSH shares?

As I said in post 487, I think the NTA should be about 30cps

[climbtree]

Ok so what's going on? PGC are meant to be giving me shares in BSH as a ratio to how many PGC shares I have, right? I don't have them yet, BSH shares are dropping and so are PGCs. I'm a little worried, is this actual loss or does it just reflect the reshuffling?

[percy]

Ok so what's going on? PGC are meant to be giving me shares in BSH as a ratio to how many PGC shares I have, right? I don't have them yet, BSH shares are dropping and so are PGCs. I'm a little worried, is this actual loss or does it just reflect the reshuffling?

It is actual loss.

[rabcat]

I don't think anyone knows how many BSH shares PGC holder will get as I've not seen any ratio as yet. BSH and PGC shares are dropping on tiny volumes so it represents uncertainty (and fear) by small holders - at least this is what I think. Hang tough and trust the fundementals.

By my calulation there are

808,319,571 PGC shares on issue

300,000,000 BSH shares on issue of which PGC own 70% i.e.210,000,0000 shares

thus the ratio is 0.259 or 4 PGC shares for every one BSH shares owned by PGC.

PGC say they will distribute all there shares in BHS so I would expect to get one BSH share for every 4 PGC shares I own.

[percy]

By my calulation there are

808,319,571 PGC shares on issue

300,000,000 BSH shares on issue of which PGC own 70% i.e.210,000,0000 shares

thus the ratio is 0.259 or 4 PGC shares for every one BSH shares owned by PGC.

PGC say they will distribute all there shares in BHS so I would expect to get one BSH share for every 4 PGC shares I own.

Exactly.SCOTTY was right on the money with his post.No.439 on this thread.

[percy]

Which would make the BSH component of PGC shares about ... 88 / 4 ... 22 cents leaving a residual PGC value per share around 11 cents.

Then what about the PGW payout.? 8, or 9 cents approx per share.

[winner69]

Then what about the PGW payout.? 8, or 9 cents approx per share.

Maybe another bonus payment coming up here percy .... just joking ... but wouldn't surprise you though would it

[percy]

Maybe another bonus payment coming up here percy .... just joking ... but wouldn't surprise you though would it

I am pleased my misfortune,uneasiness,concern gives you cause for laughter.!!! I must admit it has crossed my mind that the boys may have to pull finger and explain to the market how clever and hard working they are,as the SP of both BSH [bull sh.t holdings] and PGC [poked goat corp] are in a free fall.Every time I talk to the sharemonger he tells me to get off the phone "you do not catch falling swords".Funny though,he said "the boys" were coming in to explain all to him, in the next week or so..!! Told him to look at this thread on sharetrader ,so as he may ask them some interesting questions. What will be interesting is to know how is the placement to institutions is going?I suspect they are like us waiting for the shares in the bank that PGC shareholders get to hit the market in March.

[ETC]

You're forgetting that PGC are going to place a percentage of their BSH shares with institutions, if they place say 20% of these shares then the ratio will be more 0.20 or 5 PGC shares to 1 BSH share. Not sure what they'll do with the raised capital. Maybe use it to off set the 30 million dollar loss on PGW. I'm more interested to know what the Perpetual Group is worth. I had a quick scan of last years annual report and came up with 141 million (4.5 for the trustee business, 137.5 for the asset management parts) divide that between the 808 million shares you get 17.5c

In the strategic review the Perpetual Group is anticipated to make a 4 million dollar loss this year (due to growth strategies). So once the bank shares are dealt out and PGW is sold, shareholders in PGC will be left with an asset management company that in essence is worth 17c and isn't producing any dividends. Though they will potentially have a slush of funds from the sale of PGW and BSH shares to institutions.

[SCOTTY]

Which would make the BSH component of PGC shares about ... 88 / 4 ... 22 cents leaving a residual PGC value per share around 11 cents.

Yes Belgarion - At todays price of 34c less the 22c for BSH is 12c. However the net assets would be more like 30c. Not a bad discount!

[climbtree]

I don't think anyone knows how many BSH shares PGC holder will get as I've not seen any ratio as yet. BSH and PGC shares are dropping on tiny volumes so it represents uncertainty (and fear) by small holders - at least this is what I think. Hang tough and trust the fundementals.

I'm not too concerned with what the ratio will be, I'm worried about when they'll be divvied out. The record date is long past, right? I've held shares in PGC for a long time now and I feel wary of holding onto something that I think SHOULD be big and being disrespectful of what the market is telling me. Quite often after they take a step forward - in the right direction - the share price plummets, though if I recall correctly when they announced the sale of their PGW holdings, at a huge loss, a rise followed.

They seem closer than ever to becomming a bank and people are still selling at a loss; I feel like I'm missing out on a big secret. I'll stick to my game plan but it is making me nervous

[geezy]

big volume today, ann on the cards?

[SCOTTY]

I'm not too concerned with what the ratio will be, I'm worried about when they'll be divvied out. The record date is long past, right? I've held shares in PGC for a long time now and I feel wary of holding onto something that I think SHOULD be big and being disrespectful of what the market is telling me. Quite often after they take a step forward - in the right direction - the share price plummets, though if I recall correctly when they announced the sale of their PGW holdings, at a huge loss, a rise followed.

They seem closer than ever to becomming a bank and people are still selling at a loss; I feel like I'm missing out on a big secret. I'll stick to my game plan but it is making me nervous

PGC Chairman Bruce Irvine was reported in the Christchurch Press 17.12.2010 saying that the PGC shareholders would get their BSH share distribution "on or before 31st March".

The 24.12.2010 NZX release reported that the PGC Half Year to 31st December is expected on or about Friday 25th Feb. No dought all will be revealed at this time.

[climbtree]

Cheers; looks like I need to invest in a calander haha. Exciting times.

[SCOTTY]

Looks like I'm not the only silly bugger buying today. 2.45 mil traded so far.

[percy]

Looks like I'm not the only silly bugger buying today. 2.45 mil traded so far.

Well I think you are far from being silly;only wish I was as BRAVE.!!!!

[SCOTTY]

Well I think you are far from being silly;only wish I was as BRAVE.!!!!

Thanks Percy.

Would be interesting to know who the sellers are and why they would sell at 33/34c?

Hopefully only the TA guys shooting themselves in the foot!!

Cheers

[Phaedrus]

Would be interesting to know who the sellers are........Hopefully only the TA guys shooting themselves in the foot!!!I can assure you that it most certainly won't be them, Scotty. PGC "Sell" signals fired literally years ago - and it's been in an accelerating downtrend ever since. No TA would go anywhere near junk like this - especially given the complete absence of any Buy signals.

One clue we have here is the falling On Balance Volume indicator. This indicates distribution (larger holders are selling to smaller holders). We can only assume they are selling at 33/34 cents because they fear that PGC will continue falling.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/PhaedrusPB/PGC23.gif