PGC - Licenced to Bank

[winner69]

NBR reports ....PGC: We did not buy Heartland shares from Kerr

Wonder whose sharesmthey bought the other day .... so soon after that odd lock up agreement

Oh stupid me ..... it was Belgies shares they bought

[Ahgong]

Those of us who gave up and accepted AEP's offer towards the end of March have yet to be paid within 7 days as promised in the takeover offer documents. I wonder what someone like me can do? I called LMS and they say that they are waiting for funds from AEP and to contact Bell Gully to find out more. Surely a contract is a contract and AEP must live up to their side of the of contract. Can the question be asked of the SEC or the FMA now? Any experienced member know what the rules are? Thanks

[Dubdee]

I would suggest the contract has been breached and you could demand your shares back. Good Luck though!

[Balance]

Those of us who gave up and accepted AEP's offer towards the end of March have yet to be paid within 7 days as promised in the takeover offer documents. I wonder what someone like me can do? I called LMS and they say that they are waiting for funds from AEP and to contact Bell Gully to find out more. Surely a contract is a contract and AEP must live up to their side of the of contract. Can the question be asked of the SEC or the FMA now? Any experienced member know what the rules are? Thanks

7 working says.

4 days of easter so you should be getting your money tomorrow.

Don't expect George Kerr to pay you one minute earlier then you are entitled to!

[SCOTTY]

George Kerr to replace John Duncan as MD of PGC

[percy]

I wonder how long it will be before PGC gets re-named George Inc ... ticker ... GIN?

Stay with PGC: Positive George Corporation.

[winner69]

Comment by anon on NBR re Duncan says he was fired .... along with a few others .... not yet announced

So it is Georges company now .... Belg will love that

[Lizard]

Resignation of KPMG as auditors... good on them for taking a stand on disclosure.

PGC do themselves no favour by displaying their desire to keep transactions out of the spotlight.

[percy]

Nice to know it is not only shareholders who are in the dark.!!!!!!

[Grantas]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/8680ad30/kpmg-quits-as-pyne-gould-s-auditor.html

[Xerof]

Well, lets hope those who have been sacked - I mean resigned - do the decent thing and 'assist' with enquiries, which surely now must come. KPMG will have no qualms on passing their findings to the relevant authorities......

[Grantas]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/cc08ae82/fma-looking-into-pyne-gould-related-party-transactions.html

Over the years there have been a lot of concerns raised in this forum, least not the quality of "independent" directors. Hopefully the FMA will take the time to go back through this forum.

[Grantas]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/911d8773/pyne-gould-taps-former-journalist-as-independent-director.html

[Lizard]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/911d8773/pyne-gould-taps-former-journalist-as-independent-director.html

Yes, I read the announcement and could only infer that no one in NZ would take the risk of a directorship with PGC.

[Grantas]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pyne-gould-corporation/news/article.cfm?o_id=167&objectid=10803104

Kinda reminds me of another current news story, that Australian unionist heading out the back door with a suitcase of documents as the Police were coming in the front door. They did catch him though.

[Balance]

Gee - so many unkind comments regarding a very brave and keen individual, Greg Bright, who is taking on a hard task at PGC to look after minority interests.

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage - let's see what are his first comments on the KPMG/PGC/Related party transactions situation.

Bryan Mogridge has already come across like a senile lackey of George Kerr by his "it's a technical matter" when it is clearly about the integrity of their accounting and financial reporting system.

A bit like a driver commenting that his car is technically sound when he has driven it into the lake!

[Grantas]

Maybe Mr Bright should have a link to this forum for background *G*
Ever get that "Titanic" feeling?

[SCOTTY]

Gee - so many unkind comments regarding a very brave and keen individual, Greg Bright, who is taking on a hard task at PGC to look after minority interests.

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage - let's see what are his first comments on the KPMG/PGC/Related party transactions situation.

Bryan Mogridge has already come across like a senile lackey of George Kerr by his "it's a technical matter" when it is clearly about the integrity of their accounting and financial reporting system.

A bit like a driver commenting that his car is technically sound when he has driven it into the lake!

Bryan Mogridge was right about one thing - he said that you could take the 37c offer and buy back cheaper later!!

[Breastwork]

http://i.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/6849547/New-independent-on-Pyne-Goulds-board

"Independent"?

Right up there with Mogridge would be my guess.

[Germaine]

I find it very, very strange that George Kerr (as the controlling shareholder) is effectively appointing the 'independent' director and that the 'Independent Chairman' hasn't even met him??? This whole company stinks

[Balance]

I find it very, very strange that George Kerr (as the controlling shareholder) is effectively appointing the 'independent' director and that the 'Independent Chairman' hasn't even met him??? This whole company stinks

George Kerr = Eric Watson II

Enuf said.

[Snow Leopard]

George Kerr = Eric Watson II

Enuf said.

I was fortunate enough to meet Eric Watson back in 2001 (when I was younger).
Disliked him instantly and never had need to revise my opinion of him or invest my money in anything he did (though I worked for a company he had a significant shareholding in for a while).

George is cut from the same cloth?

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[Breastwork]

George Kerr = Eric Watson II

Enuf said.

Balance, am I seeing a change in tune?

[Balance]

Balance, am I seeing a change in tune?

Change in tune?

Indeed - like a choir to a chorus!

Or from a symphony to the fat lady singing?

[janner]

After the Fat lady comes the curtain.

Do we applaud ??..

NO !!.. I will hang onto my smidgen of a holding.. Just to get up the Pricks nose..

[Breastwork]

Shareholder stays with PGC despite concerns Shareholder stays with PGC despite concerns

By Tamsyn Parker

A shareholder in Pyne Gould Corporation says he plans to stick with the company despite the resignation of its auditor and active engagement from the regulator over concerns about related party transactions.

Reese Hart, a former chairman of meat co-operative Silver Fern Farms, said he had been shocked by the resignation of KPMG and said the response by chairman Bryan Mogridge had been inadequate.

KPMG resigned last Tuesday over a difference of opinion with Pyne Gould Corp concerning related party transactions, adequacy of governance and management of financial reporting.

Mogridge told shareholders in a letter on Friday that the company rejected the claims and was looking for another auditor.

But Hart questioned how that would solve the issues.

"The company is saying they will simply get another auditing firm. But they will be staring at the same set of circumstances."

Hart said he and other small shareholders had been critical of the board and chairman for some time.

It also emerged last week that investment watchdog the Financial Markets Authority had been in talks with the company over the past two weeks following concerns raised by the NZX.

Mogridge told shareholders that Pyne Gould had "nothing to hide" and said the company was not concerned by the FMA's presence.

Hart said he welcomed the regulator's moves.

"I think it is a good thing as any issues will then come out into the open."



Inadequate and Mogridge go together like strawberry and cream.....

[Balance]

Unbelievable that Mogridge actually believes that they can simply go and get a new auditor after KPMG resigned!

Look no further than the Centro settlement in Australia - PWC's insurance bill has just skyrocketed!

http://www.smh.com.au/business/centro-settlement-worth-200m-20120508-1y9y9.html

Which auditor in NZ now will dare touch PGC? Related party transactions bring up images of Bridgecorp, Allan Hubbard/South Canterbury Finance etc.

Would not like to be the auditors for Bridgecorp or South Canterbury Finance as class actions must be pending after the court cases.

Mogridge must believe in the tooth fairy - shame really as it shows he is going senile or is he already senile?

[kiwi_on_OE]

Mogridge told shareholders that Pyne Gould had "nothing to hide" - Mogridge, why not publicise the transactions that are in question, and let the world decide whose version of events they prefer.

[Balance]

Mr Bryan Mogridge's "nothing to hide" and better still, "are not concerned by presence of FMA" are the most telling comments that any independent Chairman can ever give, about the gravity of the situation facing PGC and its directors.

It's been 10 days since KPMG resigned - and still, not a sausage from Mr Mogridge about the transactions. Whatever happened to one of the most basic tenets of accountancy - "conservatism" - as far as PGC's accounts are concerned?

One can just imagine Bryan and George in the background furiously trying to find another auditor who would agree to their versions of events.

Well, one never knows as they managed to find an "independent" director just on NZX deadline - Mr Greg Bright whom Bryan has not even met!

Maybe, an auditor from Broome, Australia?

[winner69]

There's a Timaru firm with the necessary credentials .... or are they keeping a low profile at the moment

[Breastwork]

PGC antics best show in town
Last updated 05:00 07/05/2012
TIM HUNTER
Sometimes our base instincts cannot be denied - we humans have a perverse fascination with disaster that compels us to look even when we want to look away.
If you want proof, watch the film Jackass, particularly the enema long-jump stunt.
It has a mindboggling quality that has to be seen to be believed, just like the slow motion train wreck at Pyne Gould Corporation last week.
PGC ought to be a boring low- profile investment company with offices smelling of biros and old filing cabinets. But after 125 years of more or less conforming to type, it has started behaving like a hormonal teen and getting mixed up in all sorts of trouble.
Its latest mess involved the extraordinary resignation of auditor KPMG, announced to the stock exchange on Tuesday. KPMG's reasons were: "Unresolved differences as to whether certain transactions should be disclosed as related party transactions, and concerns over the adequacy of governance and management of financial reporting."
From an auditor this is nothing short of explosive, so much so that PGC ominously said it had "reserved its rights" in relation to the "untimely resignation".
The bizarre implication that PGC was thinking about suing its own auditor came less than a week after the sudden, unexpected resignation of PGC managing director John Duncan.
No reasons were given for the move, save for the euphemistic phrase that he had "decided to move on to new challenges", with immediate effect.
There is no suggestion Duncan has been involved in anything untoward, but it does imply an almighty bust-up at board level, most likely involving PGC director and majority shareholder George Kerr, who stepped into the breach as managing director.
Meanwhile, the Financial Markets Authority has said it is investigating related party transactions involving PGC, although exactly what they are has not been revealed.
Normally, investors would be running for the hills by now on the assumption that smoke means fire, but PGC shares dipped only a couple of cents to 32c, on minuscule volume, as shareholders stubbornly refused to budge.
The reason for this behaviour can be sheeted home to the ownership structure, because Kerr and his business partner, Baker Street Capital, own 76 per cent of PGC after the closure of their 37c a share takeover offer at the end of March. The standouts who refused to sell have presumably stuck their shares in a bottom drawer to await the day they become worth their underlying value, which was assessed by an independent appraiser last November at 49c-57c.
How long they will take to get there, if they ever do, is anyone's guess, although it can be said with some confidence that the current antics are not helping - it's pretty hard to see what accounting concessions could possibly be as bad as having your auditor resign in such high dudgeon.
Unless, come to think of it, the accounting concessions really are worse.
Last week it became apparent that some curious related party lending had been going on since Kerr and Baker Street's takeover offer went unconditional in mid- February.
The deals involved a private investment fund called the Torchlight Fund, a limited partnership structure in which PGC holds a 10 per cent stake as well as management control through the fund's general partner, Torchlight (GP) 1.
Torchlight owns a range of assets including property in the Queenstown Lakes area valued at about $35 million, acquired in 2010 from interests associated with local developer John Darby, a close business associate of George Kerr.
The other side of the related party deals involved Perpetual Trust, an investment management and corporate trustee business owned by PGC. The funds in Perpetual's stewardship are basically the savings of mum and dad investors.
On February 21, seven days after the takeover went unconditional, Perpetual Trust turned up in property records as mortgage lender on properties in the Queenstown and Wanaka area owned by subsidiaries of Torchlight (GP) 1. In one case it appeared to have acquired the mortgage from Australasian Credit Fund, another subsidiary of Torchlight (GP) 1. In another it appeared to have written a new mortgage.
Perpetual's mortgages initially had priority security for $21.6m, but this was increased in March to $30m.
If the Perpetual Mortgage Fund, the only Perpetual fund with a specific mandate for mortgage lending, made loans of anything like that sum the PGC board would have known about it - the fund's trust deed requires mortgages in excess of 5 per cent of the fund's value to be approved by the board of PGC.
The fund's value in September last year was $70m, so loans of more than $3.5m would qualify for direct board authorisation.
Why would Perpetual lend money to Torchlight? These days few investors worry about the answer - believing if it's a related party loan deal it's therefore bad news, period.
It remains to be seen whether these arrangements were material in the context of the dispute with KPMG, but they are enough to concern anyone invested with Perpetual.
In February, Perpetual changed the trust deed of its main mortgage fund to give it discretion over when and how much to redeem funds for anyone investing after February 10, as well as removing the right for investors to redeem by telephone.
This is all starting to ring alarm bells, particularly since PGC has been slow to provide reassurance that this isn't a dog's breakfast.
The few minority shareholders remaining on PGC's register are presumably all consenting adults who can cope with the eccentricities. But the impact on Perpetual, PGC's only actual operating business with $600m of client funds under advice or management, is another matter entirely.
It will be fascinating to see what happens next, but not necessarily in a good way.

[Balance]

Looks like Mr Tim Hunter (probably NZ's only true investigative journalist) is right on and on top of the related party issues with PGC.

Also, looks like Mr Kerr is so blind-sighted by the millions he lost buying his first 10% in PGC (over $4.50 per share - ouch!), he could end up destroying Perpetual and in turn, the value in PGC.

Oh well, Georgie boy, karma is one of those things you just have to get around to living with.

[Balance]

Looks like Mr Tim Hunter (probably NZ's only true investigative journalist) is right on and on top of the related party issues with PGC.

Also, looks like Mr Kerr is so blind-sighted by the millions he lost buying his first 10% in PGC (over $4.50 per share - ouch!), he could end up destroying Perpetual and in turn, the value in PGC.

Oh well, Georgie boy, karma is one of those things you just have to get around to living with.

The value destruction at PGC/Perpetual has begun and will accelerate as more and more investors pull their funds out of PGC and its managed funds.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10805172

Excerpt : "In its letter to investors, BNZ Private Bank said it normally gives 15 days notice of any changes to portfolios.

"However, in this instance we considered it to be in our clients' best interests to take immediate action," it said. "Therefore all funds held in the Perpetual Global Fund have been redeemed on May 8,

[Xerof]

"Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna look you right in the face
Better get yourself together darlin'
Join the human race
How in the world you gonna see
laughin' at fools like me
Who in the hell do you think you are
a super star
well, right you are...."

Lennon

[Under Surveillance]

The value destruction at PGC/Perpetual has begun and will accelerate as more and more investors pull their funds out of PGC and its managed funds.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10805172

Excerpt : "In its letter to investors, BNZ Private Bank said it normally gives 15 days notice of any changes to portfolios.

"However, in this instance we considered it to be in our clients' best interests to take immediate action," it said. "Therefore all funds held in the Perpetual Global Fund have been redeemed on May 8,
Implications include PGC having to root around to raise cash to fill funding holes in Perpetual? Might have to take what they can get for some of their PGW and/or HNZ shares?Death spiral?

[Grantas]

Apart from Rakon and PGC what companies does Bryan Mockridge have a role in?

[Balance]

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=11172142&ticker=RAK:NZ&previousCapId=23378712&previousTitle=RAKON%20LTD

He has been Chairman of the Board of Pyne Gould Corp. Ltd. since May 2011. He has been the Chairman of Perpetual Asset Management Limited since 2003 and also serves as its Director. .

Man who loves to wear a lot of hats!

The one that stands out is obviously Chairman of PAM Ltd as above. No wonder he is so defensive over the whole KPMG related party dispute!

[percy]

ACC is fully out ... Rats (no insult intended) leaving a sinking ship ... Odd sort of SSH message. Gives details of past dealings and simply informs they now have no holding whatsoever.

I didn't think once you got below 5% you had to report your dealings? So why is the ACC reporting? Or have I misunderstood the SSH notice entirely?

Is the ACC sending a warning to everyone that PGC is in serious trouble indeed?

Very clear message;out of PGC,big holding in HNZ.

[Xerof]

Belg, their last disclosure was at a 6% level, so they are obliged to disclose the change, which happens to now be zero for ACC, but the SSH notice ensnares one of the Blairs, who I guess has also bottled on this one

[Breastwork]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pyne-gould-names-pwc-new-auditor-wb-119390

PwC covering their own arse?

PGC have an independant director?.....

[Breastwork]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pyne-gould-names-pwc-new-auditor-wb-119390

PwC covering their own arse?

PGC have an independant director?.....

[Breastwork]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/monty-python-couldnt-have-scripted-it-better-119777

[Xerof]

thanks but no help as don't subscribe - can you give us the gist of the article (and who wrote it)?

[percy]

Article by shoeshine.
FMA raided the offices of PGC on April 18th and has a truckload of documents,emails,memos and cash movements.
This is before KPMG and John Duncans departure.
Appears Perpetual Trust Cash Fund has taken security as lender on various land assets in Queenstown owned by torchlight.up to $30mil.
"The implication is the Mr.kerr has used this cash fund to acquire hiigh-risk torchlight assets or replace Torchlight's funding lines to free up cash for some other purpose."
It looks as if the FMa has already forced the unwinding of some transactions.
Shoeshine wonders if the $4.9worth of Heartland shares [sold by PGC] has been funneled into Perpetual cash fund on FMA's request.

Should anyone want the whole article send me a PM with your address and I will photocopy it and send you it.

[Balance]

Article by shoeshine.
FMA raided the offices of PGC on April 18th and has a truckload of documents,emails,memos and cash movements.
This is before KPMG and John Duncans departure.
Appears Perpetual Trust Cash Fund has taken security as lender on various land assets in Queenstown owned by torchlight.up to $30mil.
"The implication is the Mr.kerr has used this cash fund to acquire hiigh-risk torchlight assets or replace Torchlight's funding lines to free up cash for some other purpose."
It looks as if the FMa has already forced the unwinding of some transactions.
Shoeshine wonders if the $4.9worth of Heartland shares [sold by PGC] has been funneled into Perpetual cash fund on FMA's request.

Should anyone want the whole article send me a PM with your address and I will photocopy it and send you it.

Rats from a sinking ship?

[percy]

Rats from a sinking ship?

Nice to see the FMA is making sure the ship's cargo remains "intact".

[percy]

With apologises to Xerof.
GE sees mid-market lending growth.NBR 1/6/12 by Darren Greenwood.
GE Capital is eyeing opportunities with government,agriculture and medium-sized businesses,as it fills the gap left by finance companies.
Headline profits up 29% to $149mil,with net lending assets increasing to $2.35 billion."We play in the space the banks don't.GE also finances 30,000 cars.Sees opportunities in farming,claiming that now farmers have reduced debt they are ready to borrow again for items like new plant and equipment."
My point is re-read the article and replace GE Capital with Marac.Similar fields,similar assets,and hopefully similar profits.

[Xerof]

KPMG would have alerted FMA and 'protected' documentation until the raid, then resigned, I would have thought - hardly Rats, just doing their job. Don't know Duncans situation, but plenty of speculation abounds

Right now, I am just pleased to see the two other rats are now under the blowtorch, and I dearly hope FMA dig as deep as two or three years back to uncover ALL the related party transactions that appear to me to have been for the benefit of one particular person

All a bit Hubbardesque in it's evolution, complexity and desperation

Those Baker Street lads, the masters of the universe, seem to have lost their voice.....

[Grantas]

It has gone very quiet, no announcements, no news for a while now.

[winner69]

It has gone very quiet, no announcements, no news for a while now.

That's the way George want's it, hoping the punters will give up and leave him alone

[Balance]

That's the way George want's it, hoping the punters will give up and leave him alone

When the heat is on, lie low.

Or the calm before the storm?

[Breastwork]

http://www.chrislee.co.nz/index.php?page=taking-stock

"I would wager that this is their last deal in New Zealand backed by EPIC investors."

I think he could have gone further and said any NZ investor.

[Grantas]

It goes on ...and on ....and on ............... Really interested to see what the FMA comes up with as a result of their investigation.

[winner69]

It goes on ...and on ....and on ............... Really interested to see what the FMA comes up with as a result of their investigation.

High Court judge says can't be kept secret anymore ...... It's all out in the open now a nd prob some have been naughty boys using a cash fund to finance their own ventures

Not a good look .... But we live in an evil and wicked world ans some believe they can behave like this ...... Even Barclays got caught out

They will get their commuppance one day - when the finance industry finally is forced to do things the old fashioned way
Judge says

[percy]

It goes on ...and on ....and on ............... Really interested to see what the FMA comes up with as a result of their investigation.

I say anybody got a spare $25mil they can lend uncle Georgie? Dam FMA want to unwind a related party deal.
Short term only,repayment in Epic shares? !

[Xerof]

Heartland, percy......?

[Lizard]

Heartland, percy......?

Haha. So I take it that Perpetual Cash Management Fund loaned money to Torchlight to buy George Kerr's HNZ shares (plus a few more), so that he had the funds to contribute to Australasian Equity Partners in order to pay for partial takeover of PGC?

Would make perfect Kerr-sense to borrow from HNZ to repay the loan....though I see Torchlight sold down a few again in May - perhaps we'll see some more buying opportunity in HNZ shares prior to full repayment?

[Breastwork]

PGC emails reveal company plans
Last updated 15:25 05/07/2012
TIM HUNTER0

Emails sent by Pyne Gould Corporation director George Kerr reveal the company plans to move its primary listing to Australia and divest subsidiary Perpetual Trust.

The details emerged as it battles regulatory action by the Financial Markets Authority over multimillion dollar related party lending between Perpetual and a Kerr-controlled investment fund called Torchlight.

In correspondence discussing the issue with public relations adviser David Lewis this week, Kerr said PGC had been prepared for structural separation since April 2.

''We have a release in a few days saying PGC is relisting on the ASX and focusing on its sole business Torchlight ... and divesting Perpetual group,'' he said.

The email indicated current Perpetual executive Patrick Middleton would run the New Zealand unit while Kerr would remain in Australia.

He told Lewis: ''We need to ensure that PGC Torchlight speak from Sydney - never New Zealand - so they [the media] can email Yvonne - we don't take calls.''

Kerr's frustration with the FMA's action is apparent in the email exchange.

Advised to apologise rather than criticise the FMA, Kerr responded: ''Apologies? What exactly for?''

''That's what Helen said to me when I had the temerity to suggest Labour to apologise for the pledge card debacle,'' replied Lewis, a press secretary to former Prime Minister Helen Clark.

''There might be nothing to apologise for, but that's not how it will be reported.*

''If you want to close this down in terms of the media, the best way is to grit teeth, say sorry and then move on and fight another day on your terms.''
- © Fairfax NZ News

[Xerof]

Quite enlightening really. First of many?

https://www.fma.govt.nz/media/893058/high_court_decision.pdf

Dear George, AJH would be proud of you as if you were his own son. The likeness is astounding.

[percy]

Heartland, percy......?

My thoughts exactly Xerof.
HNZ buys PGC's HNZ shares and cancels them,or buys them as treasury stock to issue when it buys another building society/finance company.I think HNZ shareholders would be pleased to see the last of G.Kerr and PGC.

[Breastwork]

SFO looking into PGC, shares halt after report it will list on ASXGeorgina Bond and BusinessDesk*|*Thursday July 05, 2012*|*7 comments

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/sfo-looking-pgc-shares-halt-after-report-it-will-list-asx-gb-p-122909

[Grantas]

"
Market Update Clarification

5:09pm, 5 Jul 2012 | GENERAL

Market Update Clarification


An article has appeared in the business section of STUFF.co.nz, an online news report, which suggests that Pyne Gould Corporation Limited (“PGC”) has been planning to divest Perpetual Trust Limited as well as moving its primary listing to the ASX. The report comes from a leaked email.
PGC wishes to clarify that no decision or agreement regarding or concerning the sale of Perpetual or moving the primary listing of PGC to the ASX has been made. A number of options have been under consideration for some time, however no decision has yet been made in relation to any of these options.
A further announcement will be made in due course if and when appropriate."

As on NZX website ..trading subsequently resumed. Fastest response I've seen from PGC.

[Alf]

Torchlight have sold 7,500,000 HNZ @ $0.50. Buyer?

[Grantas]

"
Sale of some of PGC’s HNZ and PGW shares
12:53pm, 6 Jul 2012 | ASSET

Sale of some of PGC’s HNZ and PGW shares

Pyne Gould Corporation Limited (“PGC”) has today sold on-market:
7.5 million of the ordinary shares it held in Heartland New Zealand Limited (“Heartland”) for a total consideration of $3,750,000; and

40 million of the ordinary shares it held in PGG Wrightson Limited (“PGW”) for a total consideration of $11,600,000.

Following these sales, PGC (through its wholly owned subsidiary Torchlight Securities Limited) now holds 7.846% of the ordinary shares in Heartland and 1.722% of the ordinary shares in PGW."

As per NZX announcement

Still shy of the 18m outstanding to Perpetual

[Breastwork]

It was 13m I think you'll find.
Pity they didn't reduce their HNZ holding....

[percy]

It was 13m I think you'll find.
Pity they didn't reduce their HNZ holding....

Yes was $13 mil still owing as approx half of the $25mil borrowed has been repaid since April.
The HNZ holding has been reduced to 7.846% so I would think G Kerr/PGC's influence on HNZ has also deminished.I too would like to see G.Kerr/PGC's 7.846% sold.

[winner69]

Mates helping George out in a hurry .... hope his mates weren't playing with other peoples money and buying shres they don't really want

[Grantas]

http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/individual/search?q=KERR%20George%20Charles%20Desmond&roleType=ALL

[winner69]

Belg - Gaynor misses the point in that Hubard and Kerr are just 2 names in a global banking / financial that is rotten to the core. Hubbard and Kerr were just playing the game - no worse than the guys at Barclays lately or Countrywide revelation of cheap loans (bribes) to the pollies or all the bankers and money men gambling with depositors cash.

Since the new world highly leveraged financial system came into play in the 70's the world has gone backwards and only a few have benefited. There will be revolt one day, led by a more highly principled younger generation, and things will get back to a more normal state. The crooks will be punished but it will not be pleasant for al of us.

Gaynor getting pompous is a bit of a hoot - he's part of the gravy train as well - clipping the ticket on the way through irrespective of performace eh (might do better than most I will agree)

What you think

[percy]

Mates helping George out in a hurry .... hope his mates weren't playing with other peoples money and buying shres they don't really want

Would have thought he had only two mates left;Darby and Darby's Baker Street pals.
Certainly no friends left at Thames Water,or PGC,and lets not forget there were a lot of George's friends,family and relations who he got to recapatilise PGC.Let too many people down.
Not sure whether he would have any mates left at Macquarries after he fired their man John Duncan.

[winner69]

Would have thought he had only two mates left;Darby and Darby's Baker Street pals.
Certainly no friends left at Thames Water,or PGC,and lets not forget there were a lot of George's friends,family and relations who he got to recapatilise PGC.Let too many people down.
Not sure whether he would have any mates left at Macquarries after he fired their man John Duncan.


Percy .... they band together in times of need .... all tainted with the same brush so wouldn't want one to (totally) fall over

As Shoeshine noted the other day the instos making a small fortune out of the govt sell out .... he hopes they (esp Macquaries) don't lead all the 'mums and dads' down the garden path to pillage them

[percy]

Percy .... they band together in times of need .... all tainted with the same brush so wouldn't want one to (totally) fall over

As Shoeshine noted the other day the instos making a small fortune out of the govt sell out .... he hopes they (esp Macquaries) don't lead all the 'mums and dads' down the garden path to pillage them

At a PGC meeting Kerr said the reason for "helping" Hubbard out was because Hubbard was the only one to help him out when he needed help the most.With Hubbard dead,everyone else shafted,I would think George "would appear to have a problem".!!!!

[Balance]

PGC minorities should be outraged at the wanton destruction of wealth as George Kerr desperately sells down PGW and HNZ shares to bail himself out of the mess he made with his irregular and improperly approved related party loans.

As written in HNZ and PGW threads, he has wiped $4.525m off the value of PGW so far fire-selling the shares to keep his head above water

[winner69]

Wonder if we'll see a run on the funds following this? ... It'll punch a big hole in PGC's worth.

you were right again
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10818967

[percy]

Perpetual Trust Ltd advises it is placing its Mortgage Fund into a moratorium.

[Balance]

Time for PGC minorities to take a case against the directors, especially Bryan Mogridge and George Kerr, for conflict of interests, gross incompetence, complicity and destruction of wealth.

[Grantas]

Seems GK was a little late in trying to take PGC private ..now the proverbial has hit the fan it will be interesting to see how involved the SFO gets as a result of the FMA findings. Look at it this way, at least we'll get an idea of just how serious our financial regulators are in protecting investors.

[SCOTTY]

Seems GK was a little late in trying to take PGC private ..now the proverbial has hit the fan it will be interesting to see how involved the SFO gets as a result of the FMA findings. Look at it this way, at least we'll get an idea of just how serious our financial regulators are in protecting investors.

Probably wouldn't cost Goergie Boy much to go private now that he has managed to destroy what wealth there was in there. At close today there were only 586 shares wanted @ 24c. The next buyers are @ 21c. I feel very sorry for the minorities that have stayed with the shipwreck. :(

[Balance]

Really good to see FMA, Trustee and Judiciary working together finally at last to pro-actively protect investors from the likes of George Kerr.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7265954/Perpetual-Trust-ordered-to-open-books-on-lending

What is truly amazing to me is how little heed George Kerr and his lackeys in PGC and Perpetual paid to the sanctions and jail time imposed on some of the finance company directors!

[janner]

heheheh..

It has been worth my hanging on to my small number of PGC shares..

GK could not achieve his take over..

Well done all who did much the same..

Ok I lose a few thou... ( maybe )..

It will be worth every cent just to send a clear message to other wayward directors..

[percy]

heheheh..

It has been worth my hanging on to my small number of PGC shares..

GK could not achieve his take over..

Well done all who did much the same..

Ok I lose a few thou... ( maybe )..

It will be worth every cent just to send a clear message to other wayward directors..

Sorry to see you loose any money [maybe],but I wonder just how much GK has lost.His average price of PGC shares must be pretty high.A guess at 70cents considering he paid a huge amount for his original holding .

[Balance]

Sorry to see you loose any money [maybe],but I wonder just how much GK has lost.His average price of PGC shares must be pretty high.A guess at 70cents considering he paid a huge amount for his original holding .

Georgie boy bought around 8m PGC shares at around $4.50 per share.

Then, he participated and underwrote the 6:1 rights issue at 40 cents - so another 48m shares at least.

He then tried to privatize at 37 cents and bought even more shares.

Now he owns around 82.6m shares.

With the shares trading at 25 cents and NTA dropping like a lead balloon, Georgie Boy must be looking at about $50m loss, less the $8m he extracted out of PGC for Epic.

Then, there's his distressed property holdings around the place - especially the Queenstown district - Jacks Point etc.

Only those who never lived in Queenstown or talk to anyone there will live and buy into Jacks Point. The sections get the full brunt of the Southerlies during winter and is inhabitable.

I can hear the fat lady warming up to sing.

Poor misunderstood Georgie.

[kiwi_on_OE]

8m @ $4.5 = $$34m, 48m @ $0.4 = $19.2m, 26.6m @ $0.37 ~ 10m, so about $63m for 83m, or about $0.75/share. $0.50 loss/share, or about $40m lost in market value, by my calcs.

But that's not the real story. What are the shares really worth? My recollection is that they were valued at $0.63 during the takeover, but the valuer wasn't able to be particularly sure about that as they didn't have full access to values within Torchlight etc. (do I recall correctly?). I'm sure GK etc. weren't making the offer out of the goodness of their hearts - they saw value for them in the company at that price. What was the real value? How much have they lost from this related party loans affair? Who would want to buy Perpetual now? Does it have a value any longer? How much have they lost on the shares they sold?

Does BM add value to a company where he is a director?

[percy]

Balance and Kiwi on OE; thank you for doing the maths.
Nice to hear the fat lady is warming up to sing.!!!!! lol.

[Breastwork]

Is it correct that Mogridge voted on the loan to TL even though he is a shareholder in TL?

Belg, my belief is that the fat lady has already started her solo;

i) The BNZ bond pull out I believe was around $350m
ii) The run on funds will continue once the moratorium is lifted
iii)The probability they will lose their trustee licence
iv) The possibility of charges being laid against directors

Mogridge was correct when he suggested shareholders could sell to AEP and buy back cheaper at a later date.....

[Balance]

PGC value? At present not much - as they market is saying. So long as the cashflow can be maintained then its just a waiting game until all this blows over. Certainly not 63c(?) that GS came up with tho. Probably closer to the 37c mark or just below. PGC would be best wound up IMO.

George Kerr is burning through the assets and businesses, raising cash to keep the wolves at bay.

It's one thing to buy distressed assets, it's another thing to maintain and keep them when the market does not want the assets. His Queenstown assets are stuffed like Christmas turkeys.

Meanwhile, look at the losses PGC is taking on the fire sale of HNZ and PGW shares to raise cash - e.g.. PGW loss of $4.525m.

Perpetual & Torchlight were valued at around $45m or 20 cps in GC report - who in their right mind will now leave money with tim to be managed. So value = zero.

Something smells very badly with all the related party transactions at PGC - imo they point towards a very desperate situation there.

Or is it just the stench from the decomposing credibility of George and Bryan?

[Balance]

Meanwhile, when there is a fire-sale, who do savvy investors (or consumers) do?

Grab a bargain, of course!

Well worthwhile noting what Warren Buffett said about such situations :

"When hamburgers go down in price, we sing the 'Hallelujah' chorus in the Buffett household. When hamburgers go up, we weep. For most people, it's the same way with everything in life they will be buying -- except stocks. When stocks go down and you can get more for your money, people don't like them anymore."

And I do NOT mean PGC shares!

[Balance]

LOL ... sorry my bank balance doesn't currently extend to picking up PGC's distressed assets.

HNZ - NTA of 85 cents and sp of 54 cents.

That's a bargain and with the stench of George out of the way, chances are that HNZ will get a banking license.

[Breastwork]

Balance, I think you'll find GK still has a presence on HNZ through Pyne Holdings

[Balance]

Balance, I think you'll find GK still has a presence on HNZ through Pyne Holdings

My understanding is that GK sold his direct shareholding to Torchlight - happened in March 2012.

Being GK, he sold his direct shareholding just below 5% (4.99% to be exact) first so that he did not have to disclose he was selling to Torchlight.

All of his sneakiness caught up with him this week.

[Stranger_Danger]

What I don't get is that the "sneakiness" is totally irrational in terms of risk/reward, unless, you were in a totally desperate situation and thought "bugger it, what other choices are there?"

That is what concerns me and why I won't be buying into this mess.

[Balance]

What I don't get is that the "sneakiness" is totally irrational in terms of risk/reward, unless, you were in a totally desperate situation and thought "bugger it, what other choices are there?"

That is what concerns me and why I won't be buying into this mess.

Agreed.

As stated above : "Something smells very badly with all the related party transactions at PGC - imo they point towards a very desperate situation there."

[Xerof]

Where have you been for the last two years? I have bleated on about wrong-doings at the GK stable all that time and nobody took a blind bit of notice. Talk about hunt with the hounds.....

Be careful peeps, methinks too much talk about HNZ banking license being back on the table.

Moral hazard remains for RBNZ, who would still see no compelling benefit to issue a new license in this global environment

This is now destined to end in tears for all parties imo. Unleash the next set of hounds. I bet Bright is chainsmoking now :)

[Balance]

July 2011 - George Kerr has poured over $65m into PGC and Heartland - now worth at market prices, a fraction of what he invested. His many property ventures cannot be doing well, especially now that he cannot borrow freely from the likes of SCF and Marac?

So my guess is that he will sell out of PGC and Heartland. Meanwhile, the vultures will be looking to ease him out at a bargain basement price?

Yes, Xerof - what is happening now is all so unpredictable?

Greg 'not-so" Bright will be heading for the exit soon? He must be wondering how he got sucked into Georgie's mess. Just like Bryan Mogridge?

[percy]

Where have you been for the last two years? I have bleated on about wrong-doings at the GK stable all that time and nobody took a blind bit of notice. Talk about hunt with the hounds.....

Be careful peeps, methinks too much talk about HNZ banking license being back on the table.

Moral hazard remains for RBNZ, who would still see no compelling benefit to issue a new license in this global environment

This is now destined to end in tears for all parties imo. Unleash the next set of hounds. I bet Bright is chainsmoking now :)

Well I for one have always found your posts interesting and very well informed.Woken me up at times and made me think.
I do not know where PGC will end up,however I think HNZ has laid the ground work for a very successful business.

[Balance]

George will be hating this - everything he does now will come under scrutiny.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7274449/Trustee-confirms-loan-breached-deed

Wonder if minorities start taking action against him and his lackey directors - skeletons in the cupboard?

[Xerof]

If you want well researched accurate and insightful updates on whats happening, then follow jA's blog http://pgcnz.blogspot.co.nz/ His latest item is very revealing for those who are easily fooled by the use of similarly named entities.....

One further matter that needs the torch shone in the corner: where are the baker street boys? They allegedly pushed their PGC holding into AEP LP1, along with Kerr, (on extraordinarily unfavourable terms, as I mentioned at the time) A search of the LP register shows no sign of any LP holders, just one shareholder and one director of the GP1 (guess who?)

Could they have been warehousing for someone else, as mooted at the time?

[Balance]

Hmmm..

I see that NBR carries a couple of articles about PGC.

One about Bryan Mogridge being a shareholder in Torchlight but unlike George Kerr and John Duncan who abstained from the approval process, Bryan decided he had no conflict of interest! That's because he has invested "only $250,000" in Torchlight - the fund which desperately needed money from Perpetual!

The other article by Shoeshine questions why George Kerr is so desperate for cash that he breached Perpetual's trust deed to get at the cash, and then, mounted a legal challenge to try and conceal it from the public arena.
Reckons there could be other skeletons in the cupboard waiting to be discovered.

[kiwi_on_OE]

I see the GK view is that they haven't breached Perpetual's trust deed as they reckon it doesn't include limited partnerships (Torchlight), as the trust deed was written before limited partnerships existed - I think that's what I saw. Maybe they can get away with it on a technicality, but morally . . .

[Xerof]

So demanding a subsidiary lend 50% of its total assets to a related party, part owned by the chairman and non-independent director, with no conditions precedent being met, nor adequate security received, to fund deeply distressed assets does not breach the Trust Deed?

This just confirms the guy is in cloud cuckooland

Tonights announcement re paying bank loans back would seem to confirm the secured lenders are taking their money out, never to come back.

[Grantas]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10820076

and it goes on ....and on.

[Breastwork]

More movement of HNZ shares this a.m.
More debt repayment?

[Xerof]

Banks usually take down the umbrella when it starts raining.....it's raining cats and dogs at PGC isn't it?

[Grantas]

Hmmm..
The other article by Shoeshine questions why George Kerr is so desperate for cash that he breached Perpetual's trust deed to get at the cash, and then, mounted a legal challenge to try and conceal it from the public arena.
Reckons there could be other skeletons in the cupboard waiting to be discovered.

What interests me is who has invested in the Torchlight Funds .. and how patient are they?

[Breastwork]

What interests me is if they are questioning is the management structure (fee gouging) the same as EPIC, the transparency the same as PGC and the governance the same as Perpetual!?

[Grantas]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7296630/Illuminating-Torchlight-books-exposes-rogue-loan

[Xerof]

More to the point, will they still hold a license beyond a few months?

So yes belg, it will more likely either be wound up, or sold to a reputable third party?

[Balance]

More to the point, will they still hold a license beyond a few months?

So yes belg, it will more likely either be wound up, or sold to a reputable third party?

The Perpetual management will be nuts to buy the business - unless it is just the wealth management business. Imagine the potential liabilities (over the finance company collapses) hanging over Perpetual's trustee company now that it is shown to be a conflicted incompetent unit?

[janner]

surfersteve says..

" pgc is deed money and the company is now what? insolvent? "..

Is it ??..

Not that it going to worry me .. The old adage.. Never invest more than you can afford to lose..

My holding is small.. Hopefully it was my holding out and others like Belg.. that brought this to a head..
Due to GK not being able to take full control..

Maybe he will be able to play " SNAP " with Rod Petr. :-))

[Grantas]

http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/6accc264/pyne-gould-completes-heartland-exit-in-7-9m-sale.html

[Breastwork]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10821019

[Balance]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10821019

Any company or trust protective of its image will be getting rid of Perpetual Trustee.

The downward spiral for Dodgie Georgie is accelerating.

His is an abject lesson on how "arrogance can becometh a man and how arrogance begets self-destruction".

[Grantas]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10821556

[Grantas]

Quote from Market Update to NZX 16/07/12

"The proceeds from the sell down announced to the market on Friday 6 July 2012 and the proceeds from the sales referred to in this announcement are being applied by PGC to repay its bank facilities with approximately $22 million, the proceeds above this level are available for other investments.
The Managing Director of PGC will provide a statement on the investment strategy for the PGC Group this week."

Nothing to date from George ... guess he's busy juggling. Or maybe fiddling while PGC burns. (was it Nero this type of behaviour was originally associated with?)

[janner]

Nero drank from lead pipes. GK is trying to turn lead into gold

[Breastwork]

So the funds came from the sale of real estate and not from the sell down of hnz shares?
Or is this another of GK's spins?

[Breastwork]

6 MILLION IN MANAGEMENT FEES!!

I now understand its shareholders concerns.

Yet another EPIC...

[Grantas]

Just a refresher in the Torchlight Funds as at July 2011, as regards EPIC thats progressed .... ??????
I'm losing track of just what PGC does still own.

"The following relationships exist between the parties:
(a) PGC owns 11.06% of EPIC;
(b) Equity Partners Infrastructure Management Limited (“EPIM”), a wholly owned
subsidiary of PGC, provides management services to EPIC, and is entitled to receive
a management fee equal to 1% per annum of the gross asset value of EPIC;
(c) The Torchlight Fund No. 1 LP (“Torchlight”) holds 5.32% of the shares on issue of
EPIC and an option to acquire further shares in EPIC, which if exercised would result
in Torchlight holding 19.99% of EPIC. Torchlight also holds 12,719,165 convertible
notes issued by EPIC, which have an issue price of $1 per note, and which are
convertible at the option of Torchlight for 90 cents per share;
(d) Torchlight is a Limited Partnership, the general partner of which is Torchlight (GP) 1
Limited (“Torchlight GP”) which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of PGC. PGC holds
partnership interests in Torchlight representing 10% of the total capital commitment
of Torchlight;
(e) PGC’s directors are Messrs Mogridge, Irvine, Kerr and Duncan;
(f) Mr Duncan is also a director of EPIC, EPIM and Torchlight GP;
(g) Mr Mogridge is a director of Torchlight GP and a limited partner of Torchlight . This
interest is not material to Mr Mogridge in the overall context of his investments;
(h) Mr Kerr is a director of Torchlight GP and a limited partner of Torchlight who holds
(through Pyne Holdings Limited, a limited partner of Torchlight) interests, being
7.83% of the capital commitments of Torchlight. This interest is material to Mr Kerr;
and
(i) Mr Kerr also holds 200,000 shares in EPIC through Pyne Holdings Limited. The PGC
Board and Mr Kerr do not consider that this interest is material to Mr Kerr, in the
overall context of his investments.
10. In these circumstances, EPIC (and Torchlight) are therefore Related Parties of PGC for the
purposes of Rule 9.2.3.
11. Listing Rule 9.2.1 prohibits an Issuer entering into a Material Transaction if a Related Party is,
or is likely to become, a direct or indirect party to the Material Transaction, or to at least one
of a related series of transactions of which the Material Transaction forms part, without
shareholder approval being obtained "

[Breastwork]

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10821924

Bit rich coming from the ones who are claiming a performance fee.....

[Grantas]

$22 million to the Bank
$6 million in fees
$13 million to Perpetual

[Breastwork]

High Court addresses Perpetual concerns

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10822642

[janner]

Does this mean that with PGC doing so well, we can expect a very good offer for the shares remaining outside of GK's grasp ??

[Grantas]

LMAO .. I think it means we're about to get screwed again.

[Breastwork]

Hmmm.
Feeley moving to Q'town.
Georgie boy in Q'town.
$250 mil fraud being investigated.
Feeley going under cover?
LOL

[Breastwork]

Another big day for PGC.
More looming in the future.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pgc-still-sfo-radar-gb-125043

[Under Surveillance]

Another big day for PGC.
More looming in the future.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/pgc-still-sfo-radar-gb-125043

Are you part of the NBR marketing team? Access is blocked to non subscribers.

[Balance]

Are you part of the NBR marketing team? Access is blocked to non subscribers.

Basically, George Kerr and PGC still being investigated with more details to come up in court today.

FMA has opened investigations and criminal charges possible if FMA's investigations uncover any offenses under Crimes Act.

[Xerof]

FMA has opened investigations and criminal charges possible if FMA's investigations uncover any offenses under Crimes Act.

SFO ​has opened, etc etc

[Breastwork]

Wow, more in NBR covering court session today.
Further irregular loans, cover ups and false reporting.
One would think the SFO have enough now.

[Balance]

Wow, more in NBR covering court session today.
Further irregular loans, cover ups and false reporting.
One would think the SFO have enough now.

Plenty more drama, me thinkth, to come out of that shop.

See that Perpetual has been ordered to liquidate the mortgage fund? 10 days to come out with a plan/proposal.

Georgie will be crying into his Jacks Point chilled beer tonight - not only loss of fees, not only loss of reputation, not only loss of value for PGC but looks like big loss of easy funds for George Kerr and his associates to speculate with.

[Xerof]

And loss of freedom if there is any justice.....

[Breastwork]

Be surprised if we don't hear of some of his bigger investors now pulling the pin.

When a boat starts sinking it's hard to stop it accelerating to its dimise

[Balance]

FMA and SFO are going to have a field day with PGC, Perpetual, Torchlight, Georgie boy and his associates.

Reading through the NBR article, there are a number of numbing implications for them :

1. Loan to mortgage recommendation ratio of 297% : 3 times more than permitted!

2. No loan documentation.

3. Lending on bare land with no cashflow.

4. Loan to value ratio of 64% becoming 155% after proper valuations done.

Normally, only desperate people behave with such recklessness.

[kizame]

So with all this very negative stuff going on,why is the shareprice sitting at 28 cents?in fact it has increased in value from the 24 cents it was at when the investigations were commenced.

[Balance]

So with all this very negative stuff going on,why is the shareprice sitting at 28 cents?in fact it has increased in value from the 24 cents it was at when the investigations were commenced.

Got down to 23 cents on bugger all volumes when news broke of FMA investigations.

The smart or lucky ones got out when Georgie boy made his "low ball" offer of 37 cents. May not be so low ball after all as the destruction of value in PGC is spiraling downwards in a big way.

Georgie has opened himself up big time for the FMA and SFO to investigate all the irregularities in PGC. He will find it hard to counter the actions taken by them as the court has so far taken a very dim view of his carry-ons.

Interesting question that pops up for me is how long all this related party transactions have been going on and whether it goes back to pre 2008 when Marac was lending big on property developments - did Marac lend to Georgie and his associates? Jacks Point obviously required a lot of funding and borrowings - did Marac and Perpetual lend to Jacks Point and if so, was this disclosed to investors?

FMA and SFO must be gaining some great insights by reading some of the exchanges of emails in PGC on how Georgie and his lackeys like Bryan Mogridge were running the shop!

Seems to be along the lines of : "I own the company. My associates and I want money. Give me the money."

[Marilyn Munroe]

Interesting question that pops up for me is how long all this related party transactions have been going on and whether it goes back to pre 2008 when Marac was lending big on property developments - did Marac lend to Georgie and his associates? Jacks Point obviously required a lot of funding and borrowings - did Marac and Perpetual lend to Jacks Point and if so, was this disclosed to investors?

I hope not Balance. If it were true it would show up those provincial accountants who ran CBS Canterbury and were enthusiasitc supporters of the merger with Marac as lightweight.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[percy]

According to the NBR article;"PGC faces further questions over transactions entered into since Mr.Kerr took control".
No talk of "old " transactions.

[Xerof]

And this will give George a nice tailwind for his 'trade sale'......

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7481103/Trustee-may-face-legal-claim

[Balance]

And this will give George a nice tailwind for his 'trade sale'......

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7481103/Trustee-may-face-legal-claim

After the disgraceful, incompetent and conflict-of-interest display by Perpetual Trustees recently, the receivers of Capital & Merchant, Nathan Finance, Strategic Finance, St Laurence etc must be lining up to claim mega millions from Perpetual Trustees.

Bye bye, Dodgie Georgie, to any value in Perpetual.

[Joshuatree]

I see Torchlight holds over 40 % in IEF on ASX which is at a big discount to NAV. Sorry Auz hes all yours.Theres a post on H/C re torchlight making investors nervous.

[winner69]

Check out this drivel announced to the market today:

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PGC/announcements/226630

Makes good reading sparky

High NTA relative to current share price as well

Can't lose ......after all they are the WINNERS in the opposite space of where hNz were winners in .....good stuff

Methinks belg will be quietly pleased things have been sorted and things are back on track

[Under Surveillance]

Check out this drivel announced to the market today:

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PGC/announcements/226630
Drivel indeed. And delusional. And unintentionally satirical; George imagines the punters will be happy that Torchlight Fund No. 2 LP has in NZ, since early 2010, focused on finishing Project New Tulip, the “third leg”, of the finance company strategy.

[Xerof]

With FMA and SFO tip-toeing through George's tulips, I'm thinking Tiny Tim has more credibility....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXIO

[Breastwork]

Check out this drivel announced to the market today:

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PGC/announcements/226630

Georgie boy's been watching reruns of Wall Street.
Interesting concept though if I read it right, take you own subsidiary to court for its failures in an effort to get its insurance to pay out.
That's should help a sale of Perpetual.

[Breastwork]

From Perpetual's FAQ webpage

What makes Perpetual Trust's Mortgage Fund different?Perpetual Trust's Fund management is very conservative to whom it lends money. All loans are subject to strict approval processes set by the Board of Perpetual Trust. The Fund is relatively small and specialised. We do not lend on bare land developments. The Fund is not exposed to a few large lenders - it has a broad spread of lenders.What is your current exposure to property development?We do not lend on bare land developments. The Fund has very limited amounts lent to development projects, currently totalling 4 per cent. The investors' funds are secured by first mortgages over property with sound income streams.

[Balance]

I read that Bryan Mogridge has resigned from Perpetual.

What a huge fall from grace for a person who was so highly thought of before : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10499752

Excerpt : ""I'm very respectful of people's comments, and that's what it's all about, growing the business for the shareholders and for New Zealand."

One guesses he meant " I care not about people's comments as being one of Georgie's lackeys is what it is all about, growing his wealth and of course, for No 1."

[Breastwork]

I read that Bryan Mogridge has resigned from Perpetual.

What a huge fall from grace for a person who was so highly thought of before : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10499752"

Greg Muir is also highlighted in the article....

[winner69]

Have a read of Chris Lee's Taking Stock this week (on his web site)


Speculates that Pepetual starts suing auditors and directors and everybody under the sun Torchlight/PGC might make $340 m by essentially sueing itself .....but the dosh would go to the Torchlight investors whoever they are

[percy]

I see a bright very profitable future for any litigation lawyer employed by George Kerr.FMA,SFO,insurance companies,directors,including himself,Epic investors etc.
I would however advise funds up front.

[Xerof]

.but the dosh would go to the Torchlight investors whoever they are

Well it is public knowledge, declared at various dates on the recent timeline, that PGC, Kerr, Mogridge, and the NZ Taxpayer (via assets held from the SCF debacle) are investors in Torchlight LP1.

The Companys office site is currently under maintenance so I can't check if there's been any movement in the number of investors.

[janner]

Ooooppps..

10:34am

" PGC advises that the High Court has ruled that the notices issued earlier this year by the Financial Markets Authority to obtain information from Perpetual Trust Limited and entities associated with Perpetual Trust Limited were unlawful.

PGC and Perpetual Trust will now consider the possible implications of the judgement ".

[Xerof]

Technicality... Read the FMA announcement to get perspective.

FMA welcomes High Court ruling on Perpetual11:08am, 10 Sep 2012 | GENERALThe Financial Markets Authority has today welcomed the High Court’s judgment that it can retain documents relating to its inquiries into Perpetual Trust Limited. Perpetual had previously brought a challenge against FMA’s information-gathering notices, alleging they were unlawful.
FMA values the clarity of the High Court’s ruling that there was no unfairness in the way FMA in fact obtained information and documents under its section 25 notices issued to Perpetual in April. FMA recognises that the High Court did however find that its notices were, in that instance, unlawful because they required documents to be provided “immediately”.
FMA Chief Executive, Sean Hughes, said this is the first time a Court has ruled on a question about FMA’s ability to give a notice of this kind, since FMA was established in May 2011.
“FMA accepts the judgment and welcomes the clarification from the Court on how it expects FMA to use this power going forward,” said Mr Hughes.
“Significantly, the judgment confirms that FMA acted reasonably and fairly. The circumstances of this case required FMA to act urgently in the public interest, and that action has resulted in the repayment of a substantial loan which is in the best interests of investors.”
The Court confirmed that on 26 April, FMA had grounds to suspect a potential breach of Perpetual’s duties as trustee and a possible breach of s58 of the Securities Act 1978. The Court says that it was necessary and desirable for FMA to embark upon collection of relevant evidence.
FMA’s inquiries with respect to Perpetual are on-going.
Background:
In April 2012 FMA began making inquiries into issues regarding Perpetual Trust Limited (Perpetual), (a subsidiary of Pyne Gould Corporation (PGC)) and related entities. Those inquiries focused particularly on loans made by the Perpetual Cash Management Fund (Fund) to Torchlight Fund No. 1 LP (Torchlight) and the implications for the investors in the Fund and the Perpetual Mortgage Fund.
In FMA’s view the loans were not in the best interests of investors in the Funds and the circumstances in which they were made by Perpetual reflects a lack of understanding of its role as trustee of funds of this nature.
On 26 April 2012 FMA issued notices under s25 of the Financial Markets Authority Act requiring that Perpetual and various individuals provide documentation to FMA. The information was provided to FMA over a 16 day period. Following on-going engagement between Perpetual and FMA, the loans were repaid. FMA’s inquiries with respect to Perpetual are on-going.
Torchlight is a limited partnership for sophisticated investors run by Torchlight GP No 1 Limited (Torchlight GP), a subsidiary of PGC. FMA understands George Kerr is Chairman and has an ownership interest in Torchlight. Mr Kerr is also a director and owns approximately 76.5%, of PGC.
Ends
Contact:
Tony Reid on 021 739 052 (tel:021%20739%20052) or tony.reid@fma.govt.nz

[Joshuatree]

Wow discovered a new facet to self.Im visualizng being a hound on the hunt baying as a fleeing undulating white fluffy tail is squeezing thru fences and heading toward the bluff where the foaming tasman sea thrashes below long kelp fronds dancing to a come hither wail.

[janner]

Are you the Cheshire cat belg :-))

[Balance]

Ooooppps..

10:34am

" PGC advises that the High Court has ruled that the notices issued earlier this year by the Financial Markets Authority to obtain information from Perpetual Trust Limited and entities associated with Perpetual Trust Limited were unlawful.

PGC and Perpetual Trust will now consider the possible implications of the judgement ".

If it's not so pathetic and sad, it would be funny.

Remember this famous line from PGC and Mr Bryan "I am Georgie's lackey" Mogridge after the resignation of KPMG :

"PGC takes the untimely resignation of KPMG very seriously, and has reserved its rights accordingly."

Its rights proved to be all wrong!

[janner]

In the realms of Custers Last stand IMO..

[janner]

I have feeling it ... Will be done.. :-))

[janner]

Admittence.. Have sold my holding in PGC.. The damage has been done.. Yeeessss !!..

Don't Piss the small holders off.. Time for us to move on..

Screwed him.. What more can we do .. heheheheh ..

[percy]

Screwed him.. What more can we do .. heheheheh ..[/QUOTE]

I feel sure a lot of ex sharehoders feel the same and would like to say to GK "Go sue yourself."

[Breastwork]

Hired guns best kept at arm's length

CHALKIE

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7656285/Hired-guns-best-kept-at-arms-length

Can anyone confirm a connection between LPF and GK? That aside, conflicts of interest nothing new for PGC directors

[Balance]

Hired guns best kept at arm's length

CHALKIE

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/7656285/Hired-guns-best-kept-at-arms-length

Can anyone confirm a connection between LPF and GK? That aside, conflicts of interest nothing new for PGC directors

Litigation funding by PGC is akin to the dodgy one looking in the mirror in the morning and saying to image "You have screwed up so I am going to screw you further."

[Xerof]

Interesting snippet from Chalkie article - ACC outed as one of the Torchlight LP1 investors

How embarrassing......

[Morpheus]

Shoeshine in NBR reckons the Super Fund could be in Torchlight as well as ACC

[Breastwork]

Shoeshine's article also raises the aspect of the government's vested interest in Perpetual retaining their licence and the FMA having every reason not to issue it.

Money or morals?

[Balance]

Shoeshine's article also raises the aspect of the government's vested interest in Perpetual retaining their licence and the FMA having every reason not to issue it.

Money or morals?

https://www.nzx.com/regulators/FMA/announcements/227464

Not looking good for Perpetual.

Or is it good from a litigation point of view?

[Xerof]

Presumably they are one of the three yet to be dealt with (to)

[Xerof]

http://pgcnz.blogspot.co.nz/


A few new updates on this blog, of interest is the second to most recent....

Gee, times must be tough for George, personally bailing out of his flagship asset, TL LP 1, but failing to declare it at the time. Also note the value has dropped by about 20% for the remaining partners since last year - those "excellent countercyclical purchases" seem even more distressed than a year ago.

More fodder for the SFO and FMA to chew on.

Kia ora from muggy Singapore

[Balance]

http://pgcnz.blogspot.co.nz/


A few new updates on this blog, of interest is the second to most recent....

Gee, times must be tough for George, personally bailing out of his flagship asset, TL LP 1, but failing to declare it at the time. Also note the value has dropped by about 20% for the remaining partners since last year - those "excellent countercyclical purchases" seem even more distressed than a year ago.

More fodder for the SFO and FMA to chew on.

Kia ora from muggy Singapore

Fascinating - PGC shifts its AGM from ChCh to Auckland for the first time in its history! The one caught with his hands in the cookie jar obviously does not want to front up to irate ChCh old timer shareholders?

Also, no photos or pictures in the PGC Annual Report. Bryan and George afraid that they may get recognized in the streets by PGC shareholders?

Meanwhile, I read in the NBR that the Receivers of Capital & Merchant have now launched a case against Perpetual for the losses sustained by investors - $167m.

Might be nothing left in PGC but a lot of legal fees and damages suits in 5 years' time?

I am actually starting to feel sorry for Georgie. Someone saw him shivering in the cold wintery blast at Jacks Point and thought of offering him a woolen hat but then, thought that's the least of Georgie's problems these days. He needs the chill wind to cool his brains down.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/GMT/announcements

Hope those who bought Perpetual Trustees off Georgie boy knew what they were doing.

The stench must be unbearable !

[Xerof]

I see Cur, eeee, Kerr, cant make his own AGM this year, you know, the one that after 150 years of being held in Canterbury, is being held in Auckland

Perhaps his passports expired?

[janner]

Actions speak louder than words eh !!..


I see Cur, eeee, Kerr, cant make his own AGM this year, you know, the one that after 150 years of being held in Canterbury, is being held in Auckland

Perhaps his passports expired?

[Balance]

Too busy for his own AGM?

He could not be sending a stronger message to shareholders how petty and small and unimportant they are to him.

Or with his tail between his Georgie legs, he did not have enough guts to face shareholders.

I was wondering how good he was at facing the wrath of shareholders.

What a coward.

[Balance]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8011108/PGC-may-be-set-to-up-stakes

So :

Litigation funding - quietly exited. PGC does not want to bring too much attention to the potential liabilities still residing with PGC over how Perpetual Trustees looked after all those finance companies.

Never will ever pay a dividend. Shift to an overseas domicile (just like Richina Pacific) and do exactly what they want. Why pay dividends when you can pay yourself millions in fees and salaries?

In any case, good riddance to bad rubbish.

Bye bye, Georgie.

Now take your partner of wealth destruction with you - your Chairman Mogridge.

[janner]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8011108/PGC-may-be-set-to-up-stakes

So :

Litigation funding - quietly exited. PGC does not want to bring too much attention to the potential liabilities still residing with PGC over how Perpetual Trustees looked after all those finance companies.

Never will ever pay a dividend. Shift to an overseas domicile (just like Richina Pacific) and do exactly what they want. Why pay dividends when you can pay yourself millions in fees and salaries?

In any case, good riddance to bad rubbish.

Bye bye, Georgie.

Now take your partner of wealth destruction with you - your Chairman Mogridge.

Ware Kerrcious.. for he has a lean and hungry look..

[Balance]

"Georgie porgie, pudding and pie.

Kissed PGC shareholders and made them cry.

When the FMA came out to play,

Georgie Porgie ran away."

A rather good one by the NBR to sum up Georgie's year.

And the NBR also acknowledged his Aussie mate Gregory Bright's contribution to the world of independent directors and corporate governance.

[Breastwork]

Hugh Green Investments calling it a day it looks like

[Breastwork]

NZX ANNOUNCEMENT - FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
12 June 2013
PGC full year NPAT update
Pyne Gould Corporation ("PGC") announced today that it expects to achieve net profit after tax (NPAT) of approximately NZ$30 million for the year to 30 June 2013.
Thistle will see a lift in PGC''s book value by 31% over the year to approximately NZ$127m, PGC Managing Director George Kerr said.
PGC had previously indicated NPAT would be in excess of NZ$10m to the year ending 30 June 2013, attributable to the strong performance of Torchlight. The additional NZ$20m is predominantly from realised gains from non-core asset sales and after accounting for a significant increase in regulatory compliance costs such as legal, audit and accounting.
Over the first half of the year, PGC sold its stakes in Heartland New Zealand and PGG Wrightsons. In the second half it has sold Perpetual Group, van Eyk , agreed to terminate Real Estate Credit Limited''s management contract with Heartland New Zealand and is awaiting FMA and OIO approval for the sale of Perpetual Trust.
For media enquiry contact David Lewis +64-21-976 119 End CA:00237340 For:PGC Type:FORECAST Time:2013-06-13 09:39:42

[Joshuatree]

PGC proposes to list on london markets LOLO L Good buy and good riddance. London now Afghanistan next?

[winner69]

Belg would have done very OK out of this the last year .... he a minority shareholder from the mid 20's - whats the price now

[janner]

Belg would have done very OK out of this the last year .... he a minority shareholder from the mid 20's - whats the price now

Well put winner..

[steve fleming]

In the second half it has sold Perpetual Group, van Eyk , agreed to terminate Real Estate Credit Limited''s management contract with Heartland New Zealand and is awaiting FMA and OIO approval for the sale of Perpetual Trust.


If any of you PGC'ers are hanging out to get back some exposure to van Eyk and Perpetual Group, you can invest in AWK on the ASX, that purchased these assets from PGC at bargain prices (5 x EBIT)

THe Chairman of AWK, Andrew Barnes, also ended up acquiring Perpetual Trust

[noodles]

Has anybody read the following blog. Is it on the mark?

http://pgcnz.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/pgc-last-of-kowhai.html

Could the buy back actually be a takeover by stealth?

[percy]

Has anybody read the following blog. Is it on the mark?

http://pgcnz.blogspot.co.nz/2013/12/pgc-last-of-kowhai.html

Could the buy back actually be a takeover by stealth?

Bullseye !!!!!

[Xerof]

We have a regulator???

don't get me started.......again......

[Joshuatree]

Cant access it xerof ; a paid sub. Headline says PGC's loans to torchlight revealed. What are the details thanks.

[Xerof]

looks like NBR story was a bit off the mark Joshua, so have deleted my original post

[percy]

Good to see George Kerr keeping himself very busy!!!
Van Eyk,Torchlight,and Thames Water facing challenges.

[Xerof]

Good to see George Kerr keeping himself very busy!!!
Van Eyk,Torchlight,and Thames Water facing challenges.

I'll borrow a phrase from Balance : Karma

[SCOTTY]

Yes and @38c only 1c up from the 37c "offer" back in 2011!! Well done George :)

[percy]

Sorry to any holders,but today's PGC announcement must be the funniest I have ever read!!!
And someone put their name to it.!!!

[Xerof]

"the cheques in the mail George" keep checking your mailbox - daily......

[BFG]

Sorry to any holders,but today's PGC announcement must be the funniest I have ever read!!!
And someone put their name to it.!!!

I know a few people who are LTFAO today!!!

[Toulouse - Luzern]

From stuff today:

"Listed investment company Pyne Gould Corporation has admitted a $22 million hole in its accounts after booking a profit that did not materialise.

PGC, whose shares were suspended for three weeks last October for failing to file audited accounts, had reported a net profit of $26.6m for the year to June, based on an expected $22m gain from selling its former trust business Perpetual.

Doubt was cast on the figure when Perpetual's buyer, Andrew Barnes, said the payment was a maximum contingent on his floating the company, which he was not obliged to do.

He described the profit booked by PGC as "an interesting interpretation".

This morning PGC admitted the $22m had not been received by year's end."

Full article:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/65581155/pyne-gould-admits-profit-gap

[percy]

One must ask which announcement was funnier,the original or today's correction????
I enjoyed both.!!!!
Hope there's more.!
lol

[Balance]

And true to form, the company majority owned and controlled by Georgie Porgie Kerr, great-great grandson of one of the founders of PGC, reported after market close on a Friday night hoping it can escape scrutiny by the media and market.

Still full of bravado about the carrying value of Perpetual Trust - now reclassified as a financial asset - held available for sale.

Now if Perpetual Trust is such a great asset, why has Andrew Barnes (Georgie's good mate) not paying for this business?

Tail between the legs - PGC these days.

[Xerof]

Hehehehehehe

he's making a small fortune Balance......problem is he started with a large one

[percy]

Hehehehehehe

he's making a small fortune Balance......problem is he started with a large one

Classic.!!!!!......

[Balance]

Hehehehehehe

he's making a small fortune Balance......problem is he started with a large one

What a tangled web Georgie Porgie has weaved - I wonder if he himself now has any idea the inter-related nature of all the deals he has done!

PGC - Torchlight - George Kerr - Andrew Barnes - Richard Boon - Van Eyk - Pepertual etc etc etc.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/regulators/NZXR/announcements/288133

And what will the FMA and NZX do with yet another late filing by PGC?

Playing right up to Georgie Porgie's intentional snub of all and sundry by suspending the shares so minorities are yet again disadvantaged.

Bloody jokes - FMA and NZX.

[Out to lunch]

Disgusting.
Also good luck to Grant Thornton as auditors. The big4 auditors have pulled out due to the risk and if GT pull out I'm not sure who else can audit it. The new audit legislation requires auditors to have a license in order to audit listed entities (iirc) and these auditors are pretty much all in the big4 and mid tier (BDO/GT etc).
On a side note, I really enjoy exposure to Queenstown property but I just can't do it here, I have more trust in Havelock North water than PGC management.

[The Truthseeker]

https://www.nzx.com/regulators/NZXR/announcements/288133

And what will the FMA and NZX do with yet another late filing by PGC?

Playing right up to Georgie Porgie's intentional snub of all and sundry by suspending the shares so minorities are yet again disadvantaged.

Bloody jokes - FMA and NZX.


Interestingly no NZ media appear to have run with this one - "Tort of Con!spiracy" http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/news/kiwis-sue-over-van-eyk-conspiracy/news-story/91bb1cdbef16a816539c2749954d3f37

quote - New Zealand businessmen *George Kerr and Russell Naylor have launched legal action in the Cayman Islands accusing fund managers and two New Zealand government bodies of an unlawful conspiracy to remove them from running a fund caught up in the Van Eyk collapse.

The lawsuit, the latest in a blizzard of litigation enveloping the Van Eyk saga, names as conspirators Sydney funds management group Millinium, Millinium director Tom Wallace, New Zealander Greg Marshall, who runs Logic Fund Management, Crown Asset Management (CAML), the Accident Compensation Corporation of New Zealand (ACC) and its investment manager Nicholas Bagnall.
Mr Marshall declined to comment and Millinium and CAML did not respond to inquiries.
An ACC spokeswoman said the allegations against it and Mr Bagnall were “wholly unfounded” and the claim was “an abuse of process and without merit”.

[Balance]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/%5b2017%5d%20NZCA%20152.pdf

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PGC/announcements/300590

Interesting judgement to read.

[janner]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/sites/default/files/%5b2017%5d%20NZCA%20152.pdf

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PGC/announcements/300590

Interesting judgement to read.

Indeed. " What a tangled web we weave when we practice to deceive? " springs to mind.

[Balance]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/supreme-court-dismisses-torchlights-right-appeal-b-205330

Time for Georgie Porgie to fork over the A$30m of late payment fees now that the court process has come to a conclusion.

All up, it has cost him (via PGC and Torchlight etc) over A$32.5m for a A$37m 6 months loan.

Karma - as Georgie Porgie gouged from others (eg. Epic), in turn he has been super-gouged.

[Balance]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/PGC/announcements/306371

NTA down to 32c.

Georgie Porgie sure knows how to turn diamonds into coals!

[Balance]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/96927598/george-kerrs-cayman-islands-legal-fight-shines-light-on-a-reclusive-figure

A good read.

[winner69]

Balance ....looks like George has had a bit of a win

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PGC/320678/282583.pdf

[blackcap]

Might pick me up some if the prices remain around these levels. Plenty of upside potential in this one.

[Balance]

Balance ....looks like George has had a bit of a win

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/PGC/320678/282583.pdf

He will be celebrating with the last of his psychogenic-ally affected mates, shining torchlights down the black holes Georgie cleverly built to hide his talents for destroying his ancestors' wealth?

[Balance]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12149426

Soon to become Richina Pacific II.

[Alz99]

At the Special Meeting of Shareholders held on 31 October 2018, PGC received overwhelming support to delist from NZX and to list on The International Stock Exchange (“TISE”) in Guernsey, where the company is domiciled.Listing on TISE is not expected to have any detrimental impact on the tradability of PGC shares.The final day of trading on the NZX will be Friday,16 November 2018 prior to being suspended at close of business. PGC will be delisted and its ordinary shares will cease to be quoted from close of business on Tuesday 20 November 2018.In accordance with the previously circulated Notice of Meeting, shareholders have a number of options for both before and after the delisting on the NZX and subsequent listing on TISE:

1. Shareholders can sell their shares on the NZX prior to delisting.



2. Shareholders can move their shares to the Guernsey register to be held in a certificated manner or deposited in your account with your broker/participant in CREST.



3. Shareholders can do nothing in which case the New Zealand Share Register is closed and shares are automatically transferred to a Sub-Register. PGC has appointed Link Market Services Limited to provide the register services. Shareholders that wish to sell their share or move their shares at a later date, will be able to do so on this website to complete the sale or transfer instruction.


Can someone please explain to me option 3? ive never been in this situation before and not sure if i should sell on the nzx(for a loss) or continue to hold and be able to sell somewhere???

Help! :-)

[Balance]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/story/bnz-calls-kerr-collateral

Pyne Holdings Ltd (holding company of PGC) in receivership.

[PLYNCH]

Any opinions on the Buyback? 25 cents seems low but best offer for many years.