TWR - Tower Insurance.

[winner69]

Lizard .... good result or a little underwhelming .... you don't sound that exciyed about it

[Lizard]

Lizard .... good result or a little underwhelming .... you don't sound that exciyed about it

Hi Winner,

I don't feel expert enough in insurance to really comment and, as you point out, many of the numbers affecting profit and asset values are easily skewed by assumptions. However, my view remains that TWR are well under-valued at current prices of around $1.65. The result appeared in line with the upper end of my expectations, so I am happy enough.

[Lizard]

Had a bit of a hunt around the traps for analyst predictions (found two) and think that their forecasts were already on the high side, so they may not be overly excited. The ones I found already had TWR as a "BUY", so I don't think there will be much change in view to drive the price - perhaps some initial disappointment.

[Snow Leopard]

NAV maybe $1.79 but NTA is a little lower:
Tower reckon it is $1.60, I reckon it is lower (but only one of us is right).

Strip out the change in Investment Revenue and it is all very much as it was.

Surprised they are chucking a 5c dividend out. Maybe they want to prove they think they are doing well and can sustain it.

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[Lizard]

NAV maybe $1.79 but NTA is a little lower:
Tower reckon it is $1.60, I reckon it is lower (but only one of us is right).

Strip out the change in Investment Revenue and it is all very much as it was.

Surprised they are chucking a 5c dividend out. Maybe they want to prove they think they are doing well and can sustain it.

best wishes
Paper Tiger

Yes, they had a lot of "under development" capitalized software at FY report.... those software developments apparently very valuable...

I see what you mean re NTA calculation - perhaps they have invented tangible goodwill? :D

[winner69]

LOL - Any other sources of income they should strip out ? This is one aspect of the core business after all.

Some would say that 'investing' is their core business ........having hoards of cash from premiums to invest is their game isn't it "...and hoping they don't have to pay out too much in the way of claims.

Most of that change in investment returns relates to unrealized gains .......hm what's happened to the markets since 1/2 half year balance date?

[RRR]

Tower investments in equities 18% - compare it with QBE 2% in equities!

[winner69]

Tower investments in equities 18% - compare it with QBE 2% in equities!

Thats good isn't it ... better returns to shareholders eh

[Snow Leopard]

LOL - Any other sources of income they should strip out ? This is one aspect of the core business after all.

OK, I will re-word it so that even belge can understand. :p

The change in pre-tax profit is almost exactly the same as the change in investment revenue.
If you dig into that bit of the report you will see the big change within that is from 'derivative financial assets and financial liabilities' (this time working in their favour).

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[winner69]

Hey PT you didn't read Note 22 or whatever did you ..... and I bet you understood every word and every number in that 20 page information pack they handed out

Suppose some analyst or a number cruncher like Belge will look at that Embedded Value number and calculate that TWR shareprice should be over a buck

[Snow Leopard]

Hey PT you didn't read Note 22 or whatever did you ..... and I bet you understood every word and every number in that 20 page information pack they handed out

Suppose some analyst or a number cruncher like Belge will look at that Embedded Value number and calculate that TWR shareprice should be over a buck

Got bored at Note 14.

Best bit of the the information pack: Page 20 'End'

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[RRR]

I am not impressed by this "strategic review" of tower businesses by the management - GPG is behind this all. They want to break tower into small pieces and sell it! What a shame.

[iceman]

I am not impressed by this "strategic review" of tower businesses by the management - GPG is behind this all. They want to break tower into small pieces and sell it! What a shame.

Yeaph, Exactly what I think and thats why I sold out a little while back when they were still at 1.70. Feel they have no idea where they are going with this.. For me, this holding is a little bit like NZO, huge potential but bad management stuffing it up. Would like to be investeted in both have pulled out due to lack of my confidence in managementh :(

[Snow Leopard]

The interesting thing about TWR at present is that the current price (1.66 with divie still attached until record date on the 15th June) is woefully undervalued. Many analysts suggest a PE ration of 8.0 is completely reasonable. Even on analyst goes so far to say that EOY eps will be 1.85 and that current price is "fair value". I just don't know what these guys/gals are on. Even my very, very conseravtive value suggests 1.95 given current global uncertaincies and full value once GPG exits I've revised up to north of 2.40. Another screaming bargain on the NZX but only one fund manager is seeing it. Grrr!. Mr Mkt can be a sleepy old fool at times.

It goes ex-div on Wednesday 13th June so you buy today or tomorrow if you want a refund on your new purchase.

You would appear to be in a minority on this, which does not make you wrong.
We may well be heralding you as the great tower prophet who made a profit further down the track.

So do you have your fill of TWR or are still busy buying?

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[POSSUM THE CAT]

belgarion Papertiger is correct the record date is after the ex date NZX recently adopted the ASX system

[CJ]

Or is the broking community not rating them highly as there must be at least a small chance they will get some shares cheaply in a institutional book build/fire sale should GPG not be able to find a cornerstone buyer.

[macduffy]

Another attempt by "Stock and Share Trading Company Limited" to pick up some cheap shares from unwary holders - at $1 per share!

No free post reply this time, unfortunately!

[Jim]

Another attempt by "Stock and Share Trading Company Limited" to pick up some cheap shares from unwary holders - at $1 per share!

No free post reply this time, unfortunately!

I sell mine for $0.90 a piece if they want to buy mine

[macduffy]

I sell mine for $0.90 a piece if they want to buy mine

That's hardly necessary when buyers are bidding $1.54 on NZX!

[CJ]

And no ... I have absolutely no relationship with the ACC whatsoever :)I assume you are referring to the fact ACC just did a notice that it is a 5% holder.

Do you think the announcement was strategic on their part. I haven't seen any big volumes going though so they have gone from just below to just above. Are they 'signaling' to the market that they think it is undervalued and that they support the stock. ie. they could have stayed below the radar but they choose to go just above the disclosure requirement.

[macduffy]

Or perhaps they are just steadily accumulating the stock?

We'll get a better idea if they make further announcements in this regard, although must admit I don't know the nuts and bolts of requirements for reporting changes to such holdings. Anyone help here?

[Hoop]

Hi Guys
CJ yeah it kinda looks as if ACC were lurking just under that 5% disclosure requirement and with that Dividend Reinvestment Plan (2nd July) apparently it was enough to tip them over the 5% threshold ....EXPOSED!!!

[pierre]

Interesting watching the movement of the TWR SP over the last month. Moved up from 159 at the beginning of July to 173 today - not much volume but a nice steady improvement.

Still to be announced is the result of the "strategic review of the company’s operations with the intention of ensuring that our capital is directed to those insurance lines which will yield best results for shareholders." - from the Half Yearly report published 29 June.

Maybe somebody knows (or might like to take a guess) at what the review will reveal?

[tim23]

Close to 12 month high too!

[RRR]

I wonder how long it takes for their strategic review. Nice to see the share price higher though.

Disc-hold

[tim23]

12 month high - announcement from GPG coming?

[pierre]

...And the upward trend continues - up 5 cents today to 184. There must be some good news coming from the company soon!

Disc - Hold TWR

[pierre]

...And the upward trend continues - up 5 cents today to 184. There must be some good news coming from the company soon!

Disc - Hold TWR

Oops - make that 185!

[winner69]

Guru analysts (the 'market' per se) 'expectations' for NPAT this year about $44m (eps 17 cents) and for F13 $55m (eps 21 cents). The way that analysts work there models probably means next years 21 cents is just an extrapolation of this years 17 cents.

Whatever the 'market' was valuing TWR about 10 times this years 'expectations'

Now Mr Flannagan says they have done some more sums (without the rose tinted glasses on) and said this 'market expectations' need to come down by $9,4m. *In an unusual move Mr Flannagan says that this is only 3.5 cents a share. Technically correct because $9.4m is 3.5 cents a share. But has Mr Flannagan hoodwinked the market? ... into not thinking that not too bad.

Back to those analysts - they need to adjust their 'expectations' by 3.5 cents. The 17 cents now becomes 13.5 cents. Even though the 3.5 cents might be what Mr Flannagan calls a 'one off' (yeah right) I bet that the analysts did not have 3.5 cents in their models as a 'one off' and made that assumptions that eps growth would be 23% next year (to get to the 21 cents). If they were by some chance real guru analysts and they knew this 3.5 cents was coming they must have been assuming 55% growth. None of the commentaries seem to suggest that this is the case.

So with a subtle statement like 'only 3.5 cents a share' has resulted in TWR being revalued upwards even though they had a profit downgrade - the PE on F12 earnings has gone from 10.7 pre this bombshell form Flannagan *to currently 13.0. Well down Mr Flannagan

All a bit academic anyway because in a years time Tower either won't exist or it will be a completely different beast than what it is now. 'Market expectations' mean nothing at the *moment.

[macduffy]

But not just academic if it encourages minority shareholders to hold out for a decent price - if it ever comes to that!

[Lizard]

Damp squib announcement out today... seems like a "well we've got to say something now, I guess" announcement, after last weeks promise of a glimpse into the future was added by the PR department in an attempt to avoid holders dwelling on the past (extra earthquake provisions). :eek2:

Using a large magnifying glass to try and spot something new written between the lines, I could only guess that there were probably no really good proposals and now they are going to have to work through the options (two?) that they have in front of them to see which one will disappoint shareholders the least. Chairman steps down, as no glory to be had and will be more hard work than he needs...:ohmy:

Anyone got a microscope (or a bugging device under the Board table would do)?

[pierre]

Agree - pretty tame comments.

Seems the Board think the shares are worth more than the current price but they now need till next Feb to work out how to get the market to agree with them.

So the message is ...hurry up - and wait!

[Hoop]

Damp squib announcement out today... seems like a "well we've got to say something now, I guess" announcement, after last weeks promise of a glimpse into the future was added by the PR department in an attempt to avoid holders dwelling on the past (extra earthquake provisions). :eek2:

Using a large magnifying glass to try and spot something new written between the lines, I could only guess that there were probably no really good proposals and now they are going to have to work through the options (two?) that they have in front of them to see which one will disappoint shareholders the least. Chairman steps down, as no glory to be had and will be more hard work than he needs...:ohmy:

Anyone got a microscope (or a bugging device under the Board table would do)?

Yep.. I need a bugging device because my IQ is not high enough to understand what that announcement was all about.:confused:

[_Michael]

Yep.. I need a bugging device because my IQ is not high enough to understand what that announcement was all about.:confused:

Glad I am not the only one who thought it was a total non-announcement:

"We have been thinking about some stuff, which we may or may not do"

"We may do nothing"

"Anything we would do would need to make business sense"

Wow guys - thanks for the update!!!

[winner69]

Glad I am not the only one who thought it was a total non-announcement:

"We have been thinking about some stuff, which we may or may not do"

"We may do nothing"

"Anything we would do would need to make business sense"

Wow guys - thanks for the update!!!


but we are going to make you super rich from creating MORE shareholder value

Heck guys Rob says TWR has outperformed the market since separating from Aust .... you should be pleased .....don't be so greedy ha ha

[Hoop]

but we are going to make you super rich from creating MORE shareholder value

Heck guys Rob says TWR has outperformed the market since separating from Aust .... you should be pleased .....don't be so greedy ha ha

“Please, sir, I want some more.”
― Charles Dickens (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/239579.Charles_Dickens), Oliver Twist (http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/3057979)

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/TWRvNZ5013092012.png

[winner69]

Is that chart saying Rob may have been a bit loose with hsi words - red line is NZX50 isn't it

Probably includes the huge divies in his TSR calculations or something

[macduffy]

"The market" is a bit more than the NZX50, although that's the one most of us would focus on. Perhaps he meant the NZXAllIndex?

:cool:

[Hoop]

Is that chart saying Rob may have been a bit loose with hsi words - red line is NZX50 isn't it

Probably includes the huge divies in his TSR calculations or something

Hmmm...yeah red line is the NZX50. You can fiddle around with Statistics to prove any point..so somewhere our mate Rob will be proved right...

Yahoo chart data has been proved as dodgy at the best of times. It supposes to be adjusted but I have seen from other examples that this area is suspect so I wouldn't bet my life on it... but the chart does show up a good point or two including TWR up trend.

Using the "add divvies to the share price" argument falls flat if the above chart is accurate as I used the adjustment with NZ50 index (they have divy companies too)

[Hoop]

"The market" is a bit more than the NZX50, although that's the one most of us would focus on. Perhaps he meant the NZXAllIndex?

:cool:

TWR (Yellow) beats NZ all shares Capital... it also beats Greece:t_up:
I added S&P500 (pink) for interest.

Perhaps Rob is trying for $2.20 a world beater..eh

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/y_twrnz05dec06_to_28nov12.png

[RRR]

TWR business is just fine as it is - I don't buy this strategic review of business rubbish. Forced to them by GPG, the big losers! A bit like FPA from an investment point of view and unfortunately both are significant investments in my portfolio. I will have to find some other suitable and hopefully long term investments.

[macduffy]

If the strategic review says break up the company and flogg off the bits it gets around the issues that any TO would require a full tO due to GPG's 34% holding. I think GPG would do better to distribute TWR to GPG holders. But i'd be happy with a breakup if that leaves more money on the table.

Except that that would result in a lot of GPG shareholders holding unmarketable parcels of TWR shares. (Based on last balance date's data, GPG 1.622 billion issued shares; TWR 265m issued shares; GPG's holding 90m TWR shares = 1 TWR share for every 18 GPG shares.)

[CJ]

TWR business is just fine as it is - I don't buy this strategic review of business rubbish. Forced to them by GPG, the big losers! A bit like FPA from an investment point of view and unfortunately both are significant investments in my portfolio. I will have to find some other suitable and hopefully long term investments.I agree. Tower doing fine by itself. Maybe undervalued but lots of companies are.

Dont see why all minor investors have to pay for a strategic review to ensure the major shareholder gets maximum value.

Given the lack of detail int he announcement, my guess is it came back with "keep calm and carry on".

GPG still with no where to go so may have to dump on market (maybe they could sell 20% to one and dump the rest) which would create a good buying opportunity

[percy]

Chris Lee had a fair bit to say about Tower in Taking Stock 20th Sept at www.chrislee.co.nz

[winner69]

No comment on Stiassny appointment to the board

I don't think he has much time for GPG so that good for shareholders ....he won't let them steamroll the rest

I think he will tell te rest of the board that TWR has in the big picture of the insurance world become irrelevant .....too small to make any impact and too general that they no real advantage in any area

And that Wealth Management division is a joke ....if it wasn't for being a default kiwi saver provider they don't have much of business left ...most customers given up on them

I see the Wealth part going sooner than later .....and then hoping somebody might pay a decent price for the insurance business. Shareholders might do ok

Stiassny is your man. .....say nice things about him

[macduffy]

I pretty much agree with that, winner,

As an experienced receiver/manager he doesn't take nonsense from anyone - and by the same token has probably managed to get offside with a lot of people. All round, I reckon he'll be good for TWR. And you're right about Wealth Management. I'm not sure that it's ever been viable since the three way split a few years ago. The Aust Wealth Management arm, now IOOF, took most of the business - and probably the talent too!

[winner69]

I'm not sure that it's ever been viable since the three way split a few years ago. The Aust Wealth Management arm, now IOOF, took most of the business - and probably the talent too!

They got Sam Stubbs - who else you need

[pierre]

Hey Balance - moved this discussion back to TWR (from FPA) where it belongs and I hope you acted on the buy signal you got from Possum The Cat.

TWR is on the move with SP up 4cents at 190 as I write. And with quotes at Buy 190 and 194 Sell there could be another couple of cents still to come today.

I'm a bit nervous about writing this though - every time I comment the price seems to fall backwards again! Fingers crossed this time.

[winner69]

Maybe market thinking that Stiassny will finally get things moving ....ie the good old kick up the backside to get the ditherers into gear

Expect a few "strategic" announcements over the next few months .....hopefully before the big crash sparky is forecasting happens ...... A 30% decline in asset values not good for reserves eh

[pierre]

Game on with Tower

Health Insurance business sold for $102 million, capital to be returned to Shareholders.
NP for the year to 30 Sept expected to be at upper end of analysts ranges $51-56m.

Nice.

[Balance]

Hey Balance - moved this discussion back to TWR (from FPA) where it belongs and I hope you acted on the buy signal you got from Possum The Cat.

TWR is on the move with SP up 4cents at 190 as I write. And with quotes at Buy 190 and 194 Sell there could be another couple of cents still to come today.

I'm a bit nervous about writing this though - every time I comment the price seems to fall backwards again! Fingers crossed this time.

Well done, Pierre.

PTC is definitely the best contrary buy or sell signal you can get now.

Cheers!

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Balance maybe Stiassny is allready starting to liquidate this company.

[Lizard]

Happy to catch the "double" today, since I hold both TWR and NHF:ASX - and, on the day, NHF has risen more... :)

[_Michael]

Kind of odd though? All they are really doing is making the business smaller.

It was earning $10m NPAT and they sold it on a 10% yield. Back to square one with the investment brokers all the richer

I would rather have seen them keep it and having a go at actually managing the business for growth for a change.

What happened to gold old fashioned lets get out there and compete and be as good as we can be?

Instead we get the good old kiwi "we are rubbish at managing businesses so let us sell our business to Aussies as clearly they will be able to do better"






Game on with Tower

Health Insurance business sold for $102 million, capital to be returned to Shareholders.
NP for the year to 30 Sept expected to be at upper end of analysts ranges $51-56m.

Nice.

[janner]

Must agree with you Michael..

Heard Hugh Fletcher being interviewed a few weeks ago and he made a statement ... ( That I think ) went something like this..

The four major Aussie banks took more out of this country in dividends..

THAN THE ENTIRE PROFIT OF THE COMPANIES ON THE NZX..

I stand to be corrected..

Do we not have any one that can manage our own Banks ??..

Why do we not support our own Banks ??

Apart from John .. Well past his use by date ..

[CJ]

Kind of odd though? All they are really doing is making the business smaller.


Must agree with you Michael.Agree as well.

My issue is that GPG is trying to liquidate its holdings. It cant find a seller for its TWR shareholding so it forces the TWR to liquidate its businesses.

So we are going to lose TWR from the NZX just because GPG cant find a buyer.

So after telling shareholders absolutely nothing about its 'strategic review' they then start selling down the businesses without even informing shareholders. it wasn't so long ago they were raising money to expand.

[RRR]

I will take note of the directors in the TWR board and will stay away from companies associated with them, except for the last addition! They are not worth their words! Shame on them!

[winner69]

It's prob that last addition that is driving this self liquidation ...and prob not just for the sake of GPG


Sam's division the next to go and then a few other little bits and then the general insurance be of interest to somebody

Shareholders getting a better price at the end of the day this way

So the whole demutualisation process been a waste of time .....and not just Tower

[winner69]

Wonderful result from TWR .... I'll beat Belg to saying 'just quickly crunched the numbers and worth at least 250'

Maybe even more if they get prices as they self liquidate

[tim23]

Anyone done the Maths on the capital payment, I assessed about 44c?

[Jim]

Anyone done the Maths on the capital payment, I assessed about 44c?

I have been changing all my insurances -cars, houses, content etc to twr and I hope that will help the bottom line ( profit)

[iceman]

Yeaph, Exactly what I think and thats why I sold out a little while back when they were still at 1.70. Feel they have no idea where they are going with this.. For me, this holding is a little bit like NZO, huge potential but bad management stuffing it up. Would like to be investeted in both have pulled out due to lack of my confidence in managementh :(

Accept TWR has gone quicker (not further) than I expected but back in June (post above) I sold out and put cash into HNZ at 49c so am quite content. Great to see TWR finally producing some return for S/H though

[Jaa]

$50m+ for Tower Investments....

Fisher tipped as $50m Tower-bidder while banks circle (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10851668)

My money is still on BNZ but interesting to hear that ASB are interested too.

[pierre]

Anyone done the Maths on the capital payment, I assessed about 44c?

$120 million repaid to 269 million shares = 44 cents according to my maths too. Presume that means the SP will drop by that amount too (or whatever cps is repaid).

[winner69]

Market don't seem too impressed how this voluntary liquidation going ....many will be disappointed share price down to 183

Pretty close to breaking the uptrend lines .....if so hoop would say 160 and 140 next stops down
Will TWR still be listed this time next year?

[Hoop]

Market don't seem too impressed how this voluntary liquidation going ....many will be disappointed share price down to 183

Pretty close to breaking the uptrend lines .....if so hoop would say 160 and 140 next stops down
Will TWR still be listed this time next year?

nah...I'm not that harsh a guy Winner 1.82 gap support 1.75 and 1.70 supports...its fired a few short/medium sell signals though ...MA50 DMI RSI momentum.

I did something incredibly dumb today I broke discipline and bought some at 1.84.....down with a loss already...see what happens when you break discipline.

[winner69]

nah...I'm not that harsh a guy Winner 1.82 gap support 1.75 and 1.70 supports...its fired a few short/medium sell signals though ...MA50 DMI RSI momentum.

I did something incredibly dumb today I broke discipline and bought some at 1.84.....down with a loss already...see what happens when you break discipline.

You'll be OK .... selling things off and giving money back to shareholders will get you your money back one dsy .... even if not the short medium term win you wanted

[Hoop]

You'll be OK .... selling things off and giving money back to shareholders will get you your money back one dsy .... even if not the short medium term win you wanted

News out from the NZ Herald report that Carmel and some banks are sniffing around Tower's Kiwisaver management business. (est 20c/share?)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10851668

[777]

News out from the NZ Herald report that Carmel and some banks are sniffing around Tower's Kiwisaver management business. (est 20c/share?)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10851668

Late out of the box Hoop. Jaa posted that link two weeks ago in post 421.

[CJ]

News out from the NZ Herald report that Carmel and some banks are sniffing around Tower's Kiwisaver management business. (est 20c/share?)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10851668 As 777 points out, old news but I think there will be a bit of competition though.

FUM and the quality of the members is much better than Huljich and they got $20m.

I also point out that it was nice of GPG to decide on behalf of all shareholders that TWR will be sold off in parts and liquidated.

[Hoop]

Late out of the box Hoop. Jaa posted that link two weeks ago in post 421.

Huh !!! :huh::huh::blink::blink:...oh yeah ...

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq306/Hoop_1/bart-simpson-generatorphp_zpsa484aefe.gif

[777]

It appears to me that Fishers Kiwisaver performance has dropped away since the takeover of Huljich fund. Whether it was poor performing parts inherited or simply a function of increased size it could repeat the exercise if successful with Tower. Funds become a bit lethargic as they get bigger.

When I say performance has dropped away I mean in comparison with other funds in the growth group of funds.They used to be ahead of everybody else and a month or two ago were last.

[macduffy]

Another Tower "breakup" rumour.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10859543

[macduffy]

Now there are three ........ bidders ............apparently.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10860457

:confused:

[winner69]

So life insurance and wealth going soon ......won't leave much left eh

Probably nothing when they pay X dollars back to shareholders when they hock off general

How much is X

Sad eh ..another one bits the dust

[tim23]

x = lets hope its more than $1.45 given theres approx 45c per share for Health division sold recently.

[winner69]

In the comments under an article in Stuff here is somebody who doesn't like Tower methinks
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=10859543

Love it when people use words like rort and low life .... means they really are pissed off



I took out a life insurance policy with the old Government Life when I was 15. Later, when I was looking at a superannuation scheme, the agent who was going to sell me that scheme, wanted me to "cancel" my life insurance. What we do know, those agents then on-sell those policies for a nice big fat fee !!

So I kept my life insurance policy, and looked elsewhere for a super scheme.
Then Government Life morphed into Tower, and it was decided that it was 'best' for everyone that it list on the stock exchange. Shares, we were told would 'rise' to at least $5.00 a share - like the Tui ad., yeah right !!




The only ones who have benefitted are the filthy rich, as we have seen bonuses depreciate, while they rort the share holders. Thieves, liars and cheats have been at the heart of this once fine institution, now we see it about to be flogged off, the same as every asset that falls into the hands of ther low lifes who proport to be 'working in the best interests of New Zealand'.



26 likes

[tim23]

They did get past $5.00 as I recall, may have even been issued at more than that?

[RRR]

Can someone please explain why tower resorted to complex capital repayment process/structure? 3 of every 13 shares will be cancelled and for each cancelled share they will pay $1.92! Surely the capital repayment could be done in a much simpler way!

[winner69]

Everybody to be treated the same and to be given the same amount ..... 3 out of 13 is the lowest ratio with whole numbers that works to give 120 mill back ....tax free

Just giving everybody 44 cents would prob be deemed to be a divie ......with tax implications

At least something like that

Next question for you .....after cancelling the 3 shares what are the remaining 10 worth?

[macduffy]

It's probably a case of finding an equitable way to divvy up the $ amount of capital that the company wishes to repay, whilst cancelling a realistic number of shares. Other companies have done similar exercises in the past with similarly "complex" arrangements.

[macduffy]

Next question for you .....after cancelling the 3 shares what are the remaining 10 worth?

The short answer is - about the same as 10 shares are worth now.

13 shares @ $1.88 = $24.44
minus 3 @ $1.92 $ 5.76
= $18.68 or $1.868ps

Theoretical value only, of course.

:cool:

[Hoop]

The short answer is - about the same as 10 shares are worth now.

13 shares @ $1.88 = $24.44
minus 3 @ $1.92 $ 5.76
= $18.68 or $1.868ps

Theoretical value only, of course.

:cool:

Agree only if the NTA is $1.88 at the moment..but is it??...........................They say it was $1.85 as at 30/09/2012....so that close enough not to affect Macduffy's calcs.

Quote Winner69..."Next question for you .....after cancelling the 3 shares what are the remaining 10 worth?..."
Why would Winner ask such a seemingly simple question?? I sense a trap.......

Ahhh Haaa... I see..... the Tangible Assets per share is $1.67...;):D
Hmmm..which NTA do you use for market price adjustment ...:(

[winner69]

Agree only if the NTA is $1.88 at the moment..but is it??...........................They say it was $1.85 as at 30/09/2012....so that close enough not to affect Macduffy's calcs.

Quote Winner69..."Next question for you .....after cancelling the 3 shares what are the remaining 10 worth?..."
Why would Winner ask such a seemingly simple question?? I sense a trap.......

Ahhh Haaa... I see..... the Tangible Assets per share is $1.67...;):D
Hmmm..which NTA do you use for market price adjustment ...:(

is the market efficient ....

[winner69]

every broker has a little book of formulae to use for such things .... need to get an adjustment factor to keep all the charts up to date eh

[Hoop]

is the market efficient ....

Answer yes no maybe
There I've covered all my arguments :)

It depends on which camp you in with.

Efficient market theory ?/ hypothesis? says yes the market is efficient because has reflected all information been received in its shareprice....and we have all been told about TWR's plans

TA deals with investor behaviour and argues that No the market is not efficient because its seldom "normal" (par value) ....its always overvalued or undervalued due bias emotions buying/selling pressures and momentums, etc.

Maybe....because market theories and TA disciplines always seem to be questioned during the practicial world of the "now" but over a period of time they usually shown to be correct...If time proved they weren't mostly correct then they are not called Theories.

[Hoop]

every broker has a little book of formulae to use for such things .... need to get an adjustment factor to keep all the charts up to date eh

That was my thinking in my orginal post...so which NTA would they use?

[macduffy]

If we want to really tie ourselves up in knots how are we going to define "worth"?

But it doesn't really matter. The market seldom "values" stocks solely on the NTA - tangible or otherwise - of a company.

But it was a nice teaser, winner!

:t_up:

[_Michael]

Has anyone done the math on what total value will be unlocked if everything is sold?

To me it looks like roughly the current share price.

Instead of getting a listed company @ $1.90 paying dividends - they give you your money back.

I still do not get why the breaking the business up if they cannot even sell things at higher multiples than the business is trading on (notwithstanding the Investment business which is WORTH a premium as Kiwisaver as at the infancy of a long term multi-decade structural growth outlook.

What happened to plans to leverage the data of the component businesses to build one stronger business? How come they raised capital that they never used?

Have to say am extremely disappointed with the management of TWR.

[tim23]

they should have had a decent go at AMI - they missed a trick on that one!

[macduffy]

There is a theory that they don't have critical mass in any of their businesses and therefore become merely price-takers. There's something in this perhaps in that IAG dominate general insurance; the banks and AMP have the bulk of the funds management sector; Southern Cross the big player in health insurance, I think, although Tower are now out of this.

The other theory is that GPG want their money out and can't find a buyer for their stake in TWR, so.......

There may be other reasons/theories.

[CJ]

GPG is driving this decision without a doubt. They are liqidating their holdings and they told TWR to split up as it would be too hard to flick the shares.

[Hoop]

Fisher Funds has announced it has joined up with TSB bank and bought Tower's investment business for $79m. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10867815)

Well...it was more than $50M but not the "possibly as high as" tip of $100M

[RRR]

Anyone want to hazard a guess whether the SP will rise or fall today?

Why would you want to guess the share price on a day to day basis? Sorry no pun intended. TWR is selling out bit by bit. Too difficult for most retail investors to figure out how much they will get for their bits and pieces unless you are an insider or have intricate knowledge about liquidating such businesses.
I must admit I got fooled here by the management - I didn't know that their meaning of strategic review was liquidation!

[macduffy]

Have you forgotten your Alice in Wonderland, RRR?

Humpty Dumpty: "It means whatever I choose it to mean - neither more than less."


:cool:

[macduffy]

Forced a wry smile as I read today's mail from Tower which seeks shareholders' approval to a return of capital at the AGM. Not much option, I guess, now that big chunks of the business have been sold. That didn't need shareholders' approval, of course.

:(

[_Michael]

Forced a wry smile as I read today's mail from Tower which seeks shareholders' approval to a return of capital at the AGM. Not much option, I guess, now that big chunks of the business have been sold. That didn't need shareholders' approval, of course.

:(

Totally

What raised my eyebrows was that the CEO and directors of TWR have less shares than me.... combined!!

So all those millions Flanagan has made taking the company round in circles and back to square one, and he did not think it worth investning more that two grand in shares of TWR

Astonishing. Oh well I guess as poor management and directors they at least have the good sense not to back themselves!:eek2:

[boofters]

After this latest sale of TWR's life insurance arm can someone out there tell me what do they have left apart from a pile fo cash?

[Bjauck]

Tower was born out of Government Life so now it can be said there is no life left in Government! There was no need for the Greens and Labour to knock the stuffing out of this privatisation.

[bung5]

exactly what GPG want... cash

[bunter]

Trying to work out what TWR is worth...

1) Sold divisions
Shares on issue after 13:10 reduction - 207m
Sale of Life - 189m - 70cps
Sale of Invest - 79m - 38cps

2) General insurance business
This is all that's left and I expect they'll sell it too.
Made 12.9m last year
Est if sold - 130m = 63cps

3) Cash + whatever else is left
Anyone's guess.
Guesses anyone?

GPG seem to think TWR is undervalued and they ought to know.
Net asset backing given as $2.04 after health was sold - includes intangible assets - but maybe TWR will realise these during the sales.

I reckon the final return of cash will be more than $2.04.

[tim23]

Think theres roughly another 30 mil of value left in Life according to release today?

[Fuger]

Trying to work out what TWR is worth...

1) Sold divisions
Shares on issue after 13:10 reduction - 207m
Sale of Life - 189m - 70cps
Sale of Invest - 79m - 38cps

2) General insurance business
This is all that's left and I expect they'll sell it too.
Made 12.9m last year
Est if sold - 130m = 63cps

3) Cash + whatever else is left
Anyone's guess.
Guesses anyone?

GPG seem to think TWR is undervalued and they ought to know.
Net asset backing given as $2.04 after health was sold - includes intangible assets - but maybe TWR will realise these during the sales.

I reckon the final return of cash will be more than $2.04.

Q. Will TOWER sell the general insurance business as well?
There are no plans to sell the General Business.TOWER has a lot of cash on call. http://www.tower.co.nz/company/investor-centre/

[Hoop]

Does anyone know why the share price shot up from 180 to 187 right on the close...seems rather out of the ordinary behaviour

[bunter]

VWAP was 1.806, low 1.80 high 1.87. closing price bid 1.79 offer 1.87.
Looks like almost all sales were at 1.80, and somebody bought a very small parcel at $1.87 near the close.

[CJ]

If it doesn't completely liquidate itself, does it become a takeover target for its remaining businesses?

I am a holder but it is now completely different to what I originally invested in. Haven't worked out if that is good or bad yet; or whether I should hold or sell.

Anyone got thoughts on this? It is only a small holding for me so would be good to have a starting position to prove/disprove.

[bunter]

With $1.08 in repayments or share cancellations in the offing the price shouldn't go down too much. Also there's the prospect of the general insurance business returning to pre-earthquake levels.
More chance of the price going up than down I think, but probably not much either way.

[Hoop]

VWAP was 1.806, low 1.80 high 1.87. closing price bid 1.79 offer 1.87.
Looks like almost all sales were at 1.80, and somebody bought a very small parcel at $1.87 near the close.

It wasn't a small parcel..if it was I would know that could be an attempt to produce a fake out.......
This was a series of 5 figure trades all happening at the close ....and all at 87 ..not a series of buying up the sellers up to 87....It seem the buyer has vanished this morning and the selling asking price has fallen back..
It could be a settlement order of some sort but the behaviour of that is strange ..... All seems rather bizarre to me as I fail to see any logical reason why .....

Well ...I will wait and see .....

[Baddarcy]

It wasn't a small parcel..if it was I would know that could be an attempt to produce a fake out.......
This was a series of 5 figure trades all happening at the close ....and all at 87 ..not a series of buying up the sellers up to 87....It seem the buyer has vanished this morning and the selling asking price has fallen back..
It could be a settlement order of some sort but the behaviour of that is strange ..... All seems rather bizarre to me as I fail to see any logical reason why .....

Well ...I will wait and see .....

Wasn't the last buy back price set by the average something or other days before or after the announcement, could be an attempt to influence that?

Just as an aside i bought into this as i thought the market was undervaluing the residual F&G business with a plan to reinvest the proceeds of each payout back into additional shares. I'm intrigued that Devon and ACC seem to have the same plan, both have increased their overall percentage holding post the health cancellation/payout.

[bunter]

Well... if the VWAP was 1.806, the low 1.8 and the last sale 1.87, that would be consistent with 91% of sales at 1.80 and 9% at 1.87.
If there were also sales at any other price in the range, the % of sales at 1.87 would be less than 9%.

So in percent terms it's a small sale. Wonder if it will happen again today.

[tim23]

Result must be due soon?

[Baddarcy]

Devons still buying, good to see a Fund manager putting their (or more correctly someone elses) money where there mouth is. They have commented in the press a few weeks back they thought TWR could be a takeover target now.

[boofters]

maybe GPG will takeover and manage Coats pension liabilities from within :p

[RRR]

TWR will be much smaller and will be expelled from NZ50 club I think if they remain listed - I am not sure.

[bunter]

According to today's half year results announcement, post-divestments and further share cancellations (as hinted-at in the results), TWR should pay a div of 18-20cps from 2014, being 90-100 % of NPAT.
Didn't say if that is or isn't imputed.
A div (or earnings) of 20cps should be enough to fund a takeover at $2.60, so, yeah...

[bull....]

Im wondering how they can pay this div going forward when their only remaining business is making a loss?

[bunter]

The general insurance segment result included $19m of 'one-off' provisions for extra Christchurch earthquake costs.
Adjust for that and the result is a profit.
The directors seem to think that the remaining business (general insurance) will make a NPAT of 18-20cps from here on after share cancellations and debt repayment.
If that's fully imputed then the gross div yield is in the range 13.4% to 14.9% based on current share price of 1.87.

[Jaa]

The general insurance segment result included $19m of 'one-off' provisions for extra Christchurch earthquake costs.
Adjust for that and the result is a profit.
The directors seem to think that the remaining business (general insurance) will make a NPAT of 18-20cps from here on after share cancellations and debt repayment.
If that's fully imputed then the gross div yield is in the range 13.4% to 14.9% based on current share price of 1.87.

Christchurch has hammered TWR's results for 3 years now. Any chance this will be the last year? Still only settled 46% of claims by value. The can't last for ever.....surely!

The all singing all dancing IT system they have been working on for years has obviously been an unmitigated disaster. Who knows what the opportunity cost has been. Written off $34.5m this year and they are moving to a new system, Insurance Faces (http://www.targetharlosh.com/insurance-solutions/solution-features/if-fullcycle). Lets hope it's compatible with potential acquirers!

Reducing corporate overheads from $7.1m to $2.2m is at least some evidence this strategic review will deliver something positive.

[Baddarcy]

Stumbled across this article from a few days ago on Stuff.co.nz. Just the stuff a small shareholder likes to read :-)

--------------------

Sweet time for Tower shares?

Some people have been thinking the sharemarket looks a bit toppy.

A glance at the NZX50 index shows a peak of 4671 on May 13, having gained relentlessly since late June last year. It also shows a noticeable drop in the past three weeks of about 4 per cent.

In this environment bargains can be scarce, so it's worth paying attention when a professional investor starts talking about a company being ridiculously undervalued.

The company in question is Tower, a household name in insurance that has been going through major pruning by divesting its life, health and investment businesses. The professional investor is Devon Funds, whose position in Tower is now about 8.6 per cent, worth $33 million or so at current prices.

For a fund manager that's a relatively big stake and it suggests Devon is highly confident in its view, having first disclosed a holding of 5 per cent a year ago.

The rationale goes something like this.

When Devon bought its last chunk of shares, Tower had a market value of about $368m, which will fall to about $254m after it pays out $114.5m of cash proceeds from the sale of its life insurance arm, probably in July.

At its interim results briefing last week, Tower said its remaining general insurance business had average profits over the past three years of about $24.7m.

A bit of arithmetic produces an implied price to earnings multiple of 10. You can tweak that a bit further using Tower's most recent pro forma figures, which indicate what Tower would have earned last year if it had looked then the way it does today.

On that score Tower thinks its net profit would have been $28.7m, implying a p/e ratio of nine.

Given the New Zealand market average multiple of about 15, Tower's much lower figure attracts attention as a potential buy. However, it doesn't in itself mean the company is undervalued because what matters more is how it will perform in future.

This is difficult to get a handle on - who knows how the business will go after lopping off so many branches?

Tower also has significant exposure to Christchurch and although the costs should be predictable by now, they could still turn up a surprise - the company last week said it had increased its provisions for the February 2011 earthquake by $14m citing, "higher levels of inflation, the difficulty and delays in obtaining EQC data and new claims".

Meanwhile, a chunky amount of Tower's business comes from the Pacific Islands, which accounts for 14 per cent of its customers and about 20 per cent of its gross written premiums.

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The company says its Pacific business is high margin, but the region is known to get the odd cyclone so the margin presumably just reflects risk.

In addition to the usual imponderables, a low p/e multiple can mean the business has a poor outlook.

In this case though, Tower thinks its position is good, despite a single-figure market share - describing itself as a "strong independent participant in a growth market".

One reason the company thinks it's in good shape is the amount of surplus capital sloshing around. Having piled up $307m from selling businesses, Tower has already shovelled $119.2m back to shareholders and should shovel a further $114.5m out in a month or two.

Even after paying down debt and covering sale costs, there's still $20m left over to add to general insurance capital.

The amount of capital Tower must have is determined by the Reserve Bank as insurance regulator and the ongoing business is expected to require a minimum of $72m.

Being a prudent type, Tower aims to have 175 per cent of the minimum, which brings the requirement up to $132m.

However, Tower's cash pile-up means it will have insurance capital of $200m - $68m more than its self-imposed minimum and $128m more than the legal minimum.

This capital is what Warren Buffett, a keen investor in insurance, calls float. It has several advantages for shareholders: One, you can make money from investing in the float; two, a bigger float means the business can insure more customers; and three, excess float can be paid out to shareholders at some point.

The first point isn't a great benefit right now as interest rates are so low, but the second and third are right in the mix - Tower itself says the extra money will support growth or enable a future release and distribution of capital.

But to another well capitalised insurer the $128m surplus makes Tower an attractive takeover target, because the money can be taken out straight away. So to an acquirer Tower's effective market value of about $254m looks like 265 minus 128, or about $126m, or a p/e of about 4.

I've only done a back-of-the-envelope version, but the inference from these numbers is that to the right buyer Tower could be worth a lot more than it is now.

Add in that Tower's 33.6 per cent shareholder GPG is committed to sell, probably within the year, and you have an ideal morsel for a potential buyer. A price above $3 a share is not out of the question.

Of course, most retail investors would not want to buy shares in reliance on a takeover premium. The backup in this case is that Tower expects to be a good dividend payer once its reorganisation is complete.

Last week it said 18-20c a share was on the cards in future years, which, after a bit more arithmetic, implies a dividend yield of about 10 per cent.

That, in a nutshell, is the "buy" case for Tower shares.

I should stress that not everyone agrees with it. Forsyth Barr analyst John Cairns, for example, has a "hold" recommendation, saying he is "unconvinced about the economic merits of a capital intensive, sub-scale, general insurance business" and sees a limited pool of buyers in a takeover scenario.

Still, it gives investors something to think about.

Tim Hunter is deputy editor of the Fairfax Business Bureau.

- © Fairfax NZ News

[RRR]

Recent developments felt like a garage sale:mad ;:. But can't sell the last remaining bit of the business:D. What a sorry tale:t_down:

[bull....]

anyone think the recent price fall is an over reaction ?

[CJ]

anyone think the recent price fall is an over reaction ?Depends if they are required to hold more capital. (only read the headline so cant comment more at this point). Bad timing on that at about the same timing as the Wellington earthquakes.

Nice gain today on credit rating affirmation.

[bull....]

Depends if they are required to hold more capital. (only read the headline so cant comment more at this point). Bad timing on that at about the same timing as the Wellington earthquakes.

Nice gain today on credit rating affirmation.

yea i was thinking if the quakes in welly are not to major they might head back to 2
havnt they got a capital return coming up ?

[Baddarcy]

yea i was thinking if the quakes in welly are not to major they might head back to 2
havnt they got a capital return coming up ?

Things on the radar at the moment are the well earthquakes which are looking like a nothing at the moment. There is the reserve bank capital minimums review but tower was always way over the minimum anyway. There is a capital return which will likely be a buy and cancel like the last one.

Devon did the buy and jaw bone a few months back but seem to be back buying again which can't be a bad sign.

I think the parts were worth more than the whole when I got in at 180ish ....haven't seen anything to change my mine.

[Newman]

On the www.scoop.co.nz today:

It looks that Tower has to increase its minimum solvency margin by $41m. Would it be equivalent of a reduction of capital return to share holders of the same amount?

-----------------------------------------------------------

Tower shares fall to 2-month low as licensing requirements may weigh on capital returns

By Paul McBeth

Aug 7 (BusinessDesk) - Shares in Tower fell to a two-month low after the insurer gave more guidance on its licensing requirements, raising concerns it may have to hold more cash on its balance sheet.

The stock fell 3.2 percent to $1.79 after the Auckland-based company yesterday said it needs a minimum solvency margin of $80 million above minimum solvency capital from Aug. 16 to meet the terms of its insurance licence under new prudential supervision laws.

Chief executive David Hancock said the insurer has the funds available to meet the minimum margin due to the sale of most of its life insurance to Fidelity Life Assurance, and is now reassessing its capital management plan.

“The feedback is that they have to hold more capital on the balance sheet,” said Rickey Ward, head of equities at Tyndall Asset Management. “They’ve sold a number of assets and most investors expected the proceeds to come back to shareholders, so it’s created another level of uncertainty.”

Tower made the statement after the close of trading yesterday after concluding discussions with the Reserve Bank over its licensing conditions.

In its first-half report, Tower said it will have more than $127 million in capital above minimum solvency requirements after repaying its bonds and making a capital return. As at Sept. 30 last year, Tower Insurance had a solvency margin of $39 million, according the company’s annual report.

Guinness Peat Group is looking to sell its third-stake in the insurer as the investment firm liquidates its portfolio, and rebrands as UK threadmaker Coats, its biggest asset. GPG shares rose 0.9 percent to 56.5 cents.

[CJ]

On the www.scoop.co.nz today:

It looks that Tower has to increase its minimum solvency margin by $41m. Would it be equivalent of a reduction of capital return to share holders of the same amount?I think they would also want a safefy margin above the margin set by the regulator so we are talking about more than $41m in all likelihood.

And yes, that will reduce the amount of capital they can return to shareholders.

[brucey09]

I think they would also want a safefy margin above the margin set by the regulator so we are talking about more than $41m in all likelihood.

And yes, that will reduce the amount of capital they can return to shareholders.

Snrs.
The money for reserves should not change share prices. Still have the money . Yes?

[CJ]

The money for reserves should not change share prices. Still have the money . Yes?NOt to sure - will have to investigate in more detail.

I assume it is a return on equity issue. If your return is the same but you have more equity, then your RoE as a % is lower. I dont expect Tower to be any more profitable just because it has to keep an extra $50m in the bank.

[brucey09]

NOt to sure - will have to investigate in more detail.

I assume it is a return on equity issue. If your return is the same but you have more equity, then your RoE as a % is lower. I dont expect Tower to be any more profitable just because it has to keep an extra $50m in the bank.

Possible not Snr. Cj - but asset is the same - yes?

[CJ]

Possible not Snr. Cj - but asset is the same - yes?An asset that returns 2% at the bank compared to current equity earning 10%+

[macduffy]

More on the proposed capital return to shareholders.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9174930/Tower-to-pay-shareholders-70m

[CJ]

More on the proposed capital return to shareholders.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9174930/Tower-to-pay-shareholders-70mI work that out to be just over 33c per share (current shareprice $1.84) so a significant distribution

[macduffy]

How many shares are there on issue, CJ? The last annual report mentioned 269m as at 30 November 2012 which would work out at about 26cps..

[brucey09]

Snrs.
NZX.com shows 207 millions shares. 55c each for our share ? yes?

[macduffy]

Thanks, brucey. I'd forgotten the last return of capital.

:blush:

Already spent!

But about 33cps as CJ mentioned.

[CJ]

Snrs.
NZX.com shows 207 millions shares. 55c each for our share ? yes?NZX says 207m (confirmed against companies office) which I work out at 33c

Mcduffy - that might have been before the last cancellation?

[brucey09]

Snr Cj
114.5 / 207 = 55 ?
correcto?

[macduffy]

But only $70m being returned at this stage. The balance may be required in the company meanwhile.

[brucey09]

Si Snr. Macduffy
More coming again.
Gracias

[bull....]

did gpg sell their stake?

[CJ]

did gpg sell their stake?Looks like they sold 19.9% who NZFC are offloading to clients - at $1.70

Edit 1: I believe they held 33% so still 13% to go.

Edit 2: They have sold their full holding so not sure who the other 13% went to. https://www.nzx.com/companies/GPG/announcements/241759

[CJ]

A few were buying at $1.83 this morning as their was no announcement re TWR will 10.25 - GPG made theirs at 10.05.

Its been above $2 this year so that is a big discount and will take a while for that overhang to clear out.

In the end, it is postive. GPG has made TWR gut themselves over the past few years - if only they had sold earlier, then TWR wouldn't look so anorexic now.

[macduffy]

I see that Milford Asset Management have reduced their holding from 8.16% to 6.83%.

I must say I find it hard to believe that the "slimmed-down" version will have the necessary scale to make a success of being a general - only insurance business, up against the majors.

[bull....]

I think they will be a takeover target in the future

[macduffy]

I think they will be a takeover target in the future

Is there much left to take over?

Australian business, life cover, wealth management (including Kiwisaver), health insurance - all either spun off or sold over recent years. How much is a marginally profitable general insurance business worth?

[bull....]

actually the general insurance business is doing quite well, a lot of last results were one offs so if you add those back in not to bad , there market shares alright but probably hard to grow in nz by much there growth will come from the pacific islands so the value to someone is probably a big player already in the market who wants a little more market share and less players

[corpr8raider]

Share buy back papers arrived in the mail yesterday.

[Harvey Specter]

Share buy back papers arrived in the mail yesterday.Whats is everyones thoughts on this. Shareprice is hovering around 1.80 so the offer of $1.81 doens't look that appealing. Given the offer is for only part of your holding, is the $1.81 offer price keeping the price up or pushing the price down (or is it true value?)?

At this stage, I think I might decline the offer and see if it goes up once it closes.

[Harvey Specter]

At this stage, I think I might decline the offer and see if it goes up once it closes.I forgot about the dividend. I ended up accepting the offer.

Looks like 70% of shareholders took up the offer as 14% of shares will be cancelled.

It closed at 1.77 so the 1.81 is a small premium and no brokerage. Will be interesting to see if it just drifts in the 1.70-1.80 range from now or if we will see more action.

[macduffy]

Brian Gaynor poses a few questions for shareholders to ask at next Wednesday's Annual Meeting.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11195066

[Harvey Specter]

Brian Gaynor poses a few questions for shareholders to ask at next Wednesday's Annual Meeting.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11195066while still the directors fault, what he doesn't point out is that is that it was GPG who were pushing for the break-up as part of their liquidation.

It's now a shell of its former self and one does have to wonder what it's future is.

[bull....]

yea GPG pushed the breakup thru

One of the best div yields available now i believe, but one still needs to know if they are going to grow the general insurance business or are they are just going to what to be taken over at some time

[bull....]

yea GPG pushed the breakup thru

One of the best div yields available now i believe, but one still needs to know if they are going to grow the general insurance business or are they are just going to what to be taken over at some time

[brucey09]

Snr Bul (el toro)
I am thinking business small and profits ok. With more return capitals coming? Yes?





yea GPG pushed the breakup thru

One of the best div yields available now i believe, but one still needs to know if they are going to grow the general insurance business or are they are just going to what to be taken over at some time

[macduffy]

while still the directors fault, what he doesn't point out is that is that it was GPG who were pushing for the break-up as part of their liquidation.

It's now a shell of its former self and one does have to wonder what it's future is.

And that was Brian Gaynor's point. Directors have an obligation to act in the best interests of all its shareholders - and not be pushed around by whoever happens to have the biggest shareholding. And shareholders need to take a more active interest in their company - acting as owners and not merely passive investors. The bottom line is that it will be our own fault if we get short changed on this - and other occasions.

[brucey09]

Snr. Macduffy
I am to agree. Standing up is important toward directors.

[bull....]

nib seems to have done a much better job with there purchase of towers health insurance business, turned it around from 4 yrs of customer losses already

[Harvey Specter]

nib seems to have done a much better job with there purchase of towers health insurance business, turned it around from 4 yrs of customer losses alreadyThey have definitely given Southern Cross a kick. Their $9.9pw policy for general medical has made SC retaliate with a new (don't remember it previously) general medical policy for $1pd.

Competition seems to be doing good for the consumer.

[brucey09]

nib seems to have done a much better job with there purchase of towers health insurance business, turned it around from 4 yrs of customer losses already

Snr. Bull
Si but what is Nibs margins - poor. Yes?

[macduffy]

Probably, brucey.

NZ is only a small part of Nib's business. As long as it can afford to build market share without increasing premiums or compromising service I'll be happy - as a policy holder.

:mellow:

[bull....]

Snr. Bull
Si but what is Nibs margins - poor. Yes?

nib - Small margins for bigger market share
TWR - big margins for less market share

what do you think is the best long term strategy

[brucey09]

nib - Small margins for bigger market share
TWR - big margins for less market share

what do you think is the best long term strategy

Snr. Bull
Less market = less over the head = profits good - yes?

[couta1]

Any thoughts from anyone on whether these are a good by at current price of around $1.59 or not?

[bull....]

If tower maintains it div todays prices represent a nice div, of more interest to me is for them to demonstrate they are serious about growing the general insurance business.
I see if IAG is not allowed to take over lumley ( lets hope so we dont want another duopoly in nz developing do we ) there maybe an opportunity for someone else to buy tower? would substanially boost there general insurance market share.

[silu]

Article of interest http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9828963/A-Brokers-View-Tower

discl. not holding but watching

[Timid]

Interesting article in the Sunday Star Times this weekend.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/9931400/Tower-seems-in-good-state

Discl : Hold a small amount

[Joshuatree]

I read it and makes it sound like a great buy at current price with Premiums going up etc.. Not familiar at all with history here , legacies , management , debt etc. So whats the catch? cheers jt

[bull....]

what you think of towers new app

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/9945793/Towers-track-and-reward-driver-app

I dont know if i would like them knowing everywhere i went

[Harvey Specter]

what you think of towers new app

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/9945793/Towers-track-and-reward-driver-app

I dont know if i would like them knowing everywhere i wentThey say they wont use the data for any other purpose including claims. I am sure the Police may request it if you are in a crash though. Count me out but then I dont think I would score highly anyway.

[Jaa]

what you think of towers new app

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/9945793/Towers-track-and-reward-driver-app

I dont know if i would like them knowing everywhere i went

Thanks for the link. Most innovative thing I have seen an insurer do in a while. Might attract younger and bored drivers interested in a bit of gaming and friendly competition on their way to work or whereever.

Good to see they are trying things. They need to.

[bull....]

might get annoucement this week on IAG takeover, lets hope they turn it down but if they dont guess we can hope that they have to divest some parts... hopefully to tower

[bull....]

iag takeover announcement tomorrow, be interesting to see how much foresight is in the decision

[Baddarcy]

surprisingly IAG appears to have been cleared unconditionally to buy Lumley, wasn't expecting that!!

[bull....]

http://www.comcom.govt.nz/the-commission/media-centre/media-releases/detail/2014/iag-cleared-to-buy-lumley

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nz-regulator-clears-iag-buy-wesfarmers-lumley-underwriting-business-bd-155766


oh well more domination by australian firms

[bull....]

results tomorrow

[Jaa]

Interesting they are choosing now to tidy up the register. Will make a takeover a bit easier.


TOWER has just over 20,000 shareholders with less than a minimum holding in TOWER. They represent 41.09% of the company’s total share register and own 2.5 million shares, approximately 1.43% of TOWER’s current issued share capital.

[Harvey Specter]

Interesting they are choosing now to tidy up the register. Will make a takeover a bit easier.Interesting they choose the 5 day average before the results were released to set the price - shurely it should be set based on full information in the market.

[bull....]

Interesting they are choosing now to tidy up the register. Will make a takeover a bit easier.

Save them money the more of them that take up the offer, div increase was good and they got heaps of cash to do something with next yr

[Timid]

Save them money the more of them that take up the offer, div increase was good and they got heaps of cash to do something with next yr

I imagine most of them will take the offer, as well. Mostly because Tower will automatically cancel and pay out the shares if no response is given, and people are lazy.

[bull....]

I imagine most of them will take the offer, as well. Mostly because Tower will automatically cancel and pay out the shares if no response is given, and people are lazy.

hope so more money in towers pocket, i imagine register will be dominated by institutions after this

[Baddarcy]

Another $36m (well $34 initially 2 more later) in the pocket. Feels like not a bad sale price for TWR.

Share price recovery is into its 3rd month now, its been slow but fairly steady, sell side is looking a bit skinny at the moment too.

[modandm]

I feel that all the good news is out now so to speak. Would like to see the stock drift lower before moving in.

[Jaa]

Good to see the NZ insurance market getting some serious competition, with a few innovative policies like claiming for a hole in one or a baby!

Insurer Youi launches in NZ (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10345963/Insurer-Youi-launches-in-NZ)

Wouldn't be surprised to see Youi make a bid for Tower to get some scale.

[Rego55]

I'm surprised TWR doesn't get a little more time in the spotlight here. Over the last three months they've gone about their business and have put on 30 cents from around 1.66 to 1.96. I've heard that since they stripped backed the business they're in pretty good shape and are worth at least $2.00 plus.

[modandm]

I'm surprised TWR doesn't get a little more time in the spotlight here. Over the last three months they've gone about their business and have put on 30 cents from around 1.66 to 1.96. I've heard that since they stripped backed the business they're in pretty good shape and are worth at least $2.00 plus.

that's because people on here are more interested in some speculative growth stock. Totally agree, TWR has been on my radar, was very keen. In my view worth $2.20. Problem is its a short term stock, once it goes up you have to sell.. there is no long term attraction to the stock for me. Hence I decided to go with TME, which I think can be held for many years.

[bull....]

I hold twr wish I had more topped up at 1.60 odd so pretty happy and looking forward to there capital initiatives at full yr results.

[tim23]

Is there some takeover speculation whirling around or the big move Friday because of the capital requirement change?

[bull....]

Is there some takeover speculation whirling around or the big move Friday because of the capital requirement change?

Probably moving higher because its cheap, capital requirement thing was already known

[bull....]

more consolidation in the sector occurring in aus, wonder how long before someone gets interested

[bunter]

ipredict $70m capital return (40cps) announcement in November - being reduced capital requirements granted by the Earthquake Commission (30m), proceeds of sale of life assurance business (35m), and some loose change.
Share price now is $2. Subtract 40c, gives a share price of $1.6 and a div yield (bet they can at least sustain the current div) of 7.8%, and decent prospects.

Scope for the price to go up.

[bull....]

breakout multi year range 2.40 maybe

[Baddarcy]

Yes its been a good run over the last 6 months. Fed on by a flow of positive news along the way. New CEO and Chairman and exit of GPG have all been big positives in my view.

[Hawkeye]

https://www.nzx.com/companies/TWR/announcements/256296

[Baddarcy]

Nice looking announcement this morning, Div up 2c from 6c to 8c. On market buyback in 1st quarter 2015, talk of expansion in the pacific.

[dodgy]

Nice looking announcement this morning, Div up 2c from 6c to 8c. On market buyback in 1st quarter 2015, talk of expansion in the pacific.

Read the Herald business for a different take and in my opinion somewhat unfair assessment.

[Baddarcy]

Read the Herald business for a different take and in my opinion somewhat unfair assessment.

Yes i saw that too, got to love the newspapers :-)

[dodgy]

Yes i saw that too, got to love the newspapers :-)

I am guessing this stock is + 8% by half year or more if the Kiwi goes lower and Re rates continue down. What do you think?

[Baddarcy]

I am guessing this stock is + 8% by half year or more if the Kiwi goes lower and Re rates continue down. What do you think?

Could be more, it depends on the share buy back, at $2 they would be looking at getting about 17m shares on market, the stock can be fairly thinly traded at times. There is the potential for a spike when they start buying.

[bull....]

buyback would take shares on issuee down from 175m to 158m odd at $2 more if the price is lower, increase earnings per share and if they acheive a result of npat the same or better than this result higher dividends this time next yr so at todays price you could get maybe 15-16cps div next yr for a yield of nearly 8%

[Baddarcy]

buyback would take shares on issuee down from 175m to 158m odd at $2 more if the price is lower, increase earnings per share and if they acheive a result of npat the same or better than this result higher dividends this time next yr so at todays price you could get maybe 15-16cps div next yr for a yield of nearly 8%

There is also the extra $50m the Reserve Bank is requiring Tower to hold in addition to its minimum solvency margin ($75m). It is a reasonable expectation (to me anyway :-)) that there will be additional capital release at some stage during the year.

[bull....]

There is also the extra $50m the Reserve Bank is requiring Tower to hold in addition to its minimum solvency margin ($75m). It is a reasonable expectation (to me anyway :-)) that there will be additional capital release at some stage during the year.

Agree, which going on past could mean another share buyback of 10 - 20% of capital

[bull....]

the boats a leaving

[Baddarcy]

the boats a leaving

Yes was wondering when this was going to happen. I was a little surprised at the muted response to date. Usually an on market share buy back and a dividend increase result in a bit more of a response from Mr Market.

The jump to 505 seems to have got the attention of a few sellers now, it was looking a bit thin on the sell side for a while there!

[bull....]

looks like new highs this week

[Baddarcy]

looks like new highs this week

Yes agree it looks like a nice steady increase.

The sellers have shut up shop for the moment. I'm not surprised however, with a dividend and a share buy back due to kick off in Q1, why would you sell at the moment? Be interesting to see how far it goes.

[bull....]

2.15 close confirms the breakout

[Baddarcy]

2.15 close confirms the breakout

Another good ~5% rise yesterday in a falling market, thou it looks to me that it may have gone a bit fast yesterday and overdone it a bit, might give back a few cents today.

There has been a fair bit of off market trades too.

[Baddarcy]

Also just saw morningstar has downgraded from 'Hold' to 'Reduce' due to the price change, valuation at $1.90.....

[bull....]

been 2 very big transactions this week could explain the price surge, insto buying up for takeover lol

[Jaa]

been 2 very big transactions this week could explain the price surge, insto buying up for takeover lol

As a pure play general insurance biz with a widespread register its a sitter for a takeover.

I hope they get to report one good (disaster free) year first though!

[Baddarcy]

Another good couple of weeks for TWR. Closing at 2.32 yesterday. $1.50 seems so long ago now...

Still got the 8c Div record date to come next week, then the AGM mid Feb where we will hopefully hear some more (or some actual detail) of what they have planned with Trade Me.

Then of course my personal favorite.. the on market buyback. They said it would start 1st quarter which i assumed meant after the dividend was paid and before the AGM to ensure a bright mood.

[bull....]

heading to breakout price target

[Baddarcy]

Anyone want to guess when the on market buy back will start?

I'll admit my pick was after the record date for the dividend, but that passed on the 20th and so far nothing....

[Baddarcy]

Nothing we didn't know in the AGM presentations. Not a lot of detail. Lots of mentions of the 90%-100% dividend payout and they buy back taking place in Q1.

[Baddarcy]

What do you reckon...was the big trade at 10:22 the start of the buy back?

[Baddarcy]

After the 26th May finally for the buy back!

Chch claims seem to be ticking along slowly and the extra re-insurance can't be a bad thing.

[Baddarcy]

Hmm Trading Halt...wonder why, takeover offer maybe?

[Baddarcy]

Reviewing their Chch earthquake provisions, doesn't say which way, but presumably downwards which would free up some more cash !

[Jim]

Reviewing their Chch earthquake provisions, doesn't say which way, but presumably downwards which would free up some more cash !

Today's trading was unusually high for TWR I wonder the big boys might have heard something that we don't know or is it a bargain ? Time to accumulate for the long haul

[macduffy]

Today's trading was unusually high for TWR I wonder the big boys might have heard something that we don't know or is it a bargain ? Time to accumulate for the long haul

I'd say that the big boys - the market - has worked the cost increase of the Canterbury earthquake into its valuation of TWR - and acted accordingly.

[Baddarcy]

Today's trading was unusually high for TWR I wonder the big boys might have heard something that we don't know or is it a bargain ? Time to accumulate for the long haul

Perhaps, it seems to be on a downwards trend just at the moment, i reckon there are the following pressures with Down currently winning.

Down - The Earthquake Provision increase
Up - Increase in profit guidance
Up - Pending on market buy back

My gut feeling is that the downward pressure will dissipate before the 26th May results announcement and then the on market buy back will provide some support. As always the trick is to pick the bottom.

But DYOR !!

[bull....]

breakout multi year range 2.40 maybe

got pretty close 2.36 topped out, I am watching to re enter

[Baddarcy]

got pretty close 2.36 topped out, I am watching to re enter

Yes it did, from memory it bounced off of 2.38 3 times over a few months. Unfortunately i have just sat through this one, i thought the buy back would provide more support that it did so stayed in.

I noticed that Salt has used the recent drop to top up another 5m shares (not sure if 'top up' is the right term for 5m shares)

[bull....]

http://www.interest.co.nz/insurance/75315/insurers-turn-reinsurers-customers-shareholders-plug-holes-their-post-christchurch

an interesting read

[Baddarcy]

http://www.interest.co.nz/insurance/75315/insurers-turn-reinsurers-customers-shareholders-plug-holes-their-post-christchurch

an interesting read

Yes it is, im a bit of a fan of stories with actual numbers in them, thou this one feelds a a little sensationalist on the intrepreation. I can't speak for IAG or Suncorp as i haven't done any research on them, but it does gloss over the fact that the $30m he is talking about Tower being up for is only if an event uses up all of Towers existing RI first.

It also glosses over the fact Tower has substantial reserves in excess of the RBNZ minimums that could be used to pay for that $30m, and as we have seen from the Canterbury Earthquakes, the claims are not settled in one year, so the $30m would be spread over a period of years.

The core facts are correct in that if there was another Canterbury Earthquakes sized event, Tower would possibly be up for $30m, but they can afford that.

[bull....]

wouldn't surprise me to see tower report a underlying profit but a loss after they account for Christchurch provisions, of course the longer it drags on the higher the probability even these provision increases will not be enough lucky for them they only have 5% to go unlike iag with something like 25%, dragging one s heels has proved costly for insurers

[tim23]

I reckon this was a good result, increased dividend too but no imputation credits yet, they must be in play anytime?

[Baddarcy]

Buy back scheduled to start next Wednesday, feels like it has been a long time coming !

[macduffy]

Last Friday's announcement of a partnership, of sorts, between TWR and TradeMe seems to have been greeted with a yawn. No significance - or an unknown quantity?

:sleep:

[Baddarcy]

Last Friday's announcement of a partnership, of sorts, between TWR and TradeMe seems to have been greeted with a yawn. No significance - or an unknown quantity?

:sleep:

Unknown quantity i think, Trade Me have been in the Life broking business for years (Life Direct) but this is their first foray into the General Insurance Market.

They obviously have a massive user base to market to and the web site looks fairly slick so i can't see it being a bad thing for Tower, but how much of a good thing it could be is essentially up to Trade me, as long as Trade me continue to push it to their users it will succeed.

[BlackCross]

Looks likely that the buy-back of their own shares has finished. Hence the 5% drop this week?

Like almost all companies they seem to have managed to buy their own shares back way above the price they were probably worth - in this case the price has constantly fallen throughout the buy-back which started right at the top of their 5 year price (First trade announcement - Average consideration per security acquired NZ$2.2628 - now NZ$1.92).

I don't know whether they've borrowed funds to use for the buy-back or not? Anyway very rare that shareholders get value for money with buy-backs (Just look at Glencore recently!).

[Baddarcy]

Looks likely that the buy-back of their own shares has finished. Hence the 5% drop this week?

Like almost all companies they seem to have managed to buy their own shares back way above the price they were probably worth - in this case the price has constantly fallen throughout the buy-back which started right at the top of their 5 year price (First trade announcement - Average consideration per security acquired NZ$2.2628 - now NZ$1.92).

I don't know whether they've borrowed funds to use for the buy-back or not? Anyway very rare that shareholders get value for money with buy-backs (Just look at Glencore recently!).


i think you might be reading a bit much into this..

The buy back is funded from cash, TWR has no debt.

By my count they have only spend 1/3 of the $34m they have set aside for the buyback.

I think the buy back has paused as TWR's year end is 30 September, it would seem to be a big coincidence that the last buyback just happened to be on the last day of their financial year ;-)

However i can't argue with your point about the buyback holding up the share price, i think you are correct the price has dropped fairly quickly with the pause in the buy back. I do expect the buyback to re-start once the result is announced towards the end of November.

[Harvey Specter]

However i can't argue with your point about the buyback holding up the share price, i think you are correct the price has dropped fairly quickly with the pause in the buy back. I do expect the buyback to re-start once the result is announced towards the end of November.I assume they have a black out period? so cant be buying while they prepare the accounts.

[banter]

By my count they have only spend 1/3 of the $34m they have set aside for the buyback.
Agree - I make it 3.8m bought back; 13.9m to go, approx.

2016 estimated EPS is 25 cps, using post-buyback shares-on-issue of 155m.
Past 7 years mid-point PE is approx 10.2, giving a share value of around 2.55
In 2014 they made and paid out 14.5cps.
This year 20.1c and next year 25c, as above, is my guess.

Given a growth factor of 12%, 2016 gross dividend yield of up to 13%, and present (apparent) depressed share price, TWR looks like a good long term bet (second best of the shares I track).

Market certainly not too excited about TWR though.

[Baddarcy]

Agree - I make it 3.8m bought back; 13.9m to go, approx.

2016 estimated EPS is 25 cps, using post-buyback shares-on-issue of 155m.
Past 7 years mid-point PE is approx 10.2, giving a share value of around 2.55
In 2014 they made and paid out 14.5cps.
This year 20.1c and next year 25c, as above, is my guess.

Given a growth factor of 12%, 2016 gross dividend yield of up to 13%, and present (apparent) depressed share price, TWR looks like a good long term bet (second best of the shares I track).

Market certainly not too excited about TWR though.

Yes agreed, the yield is starting to look attractive again, i got out a couple of months back once it became apparent the buy back was holding the price up. Buy i wasn't expecting it to head back into the $1.80s

TWR management has done a good job over the last couple of years, profit and dividends are increasing and the company looks to have a plan now as well after wandering aimlessly for a number of years when GPG were at the wheel.

The only downside i can see is the impact of the Wanganui floods, they mentioned $2m at the time i think.

On the positive there is the profit announcement + Div due end of Nov and then presumably the buyback will start up again. Longer term there is also still some additional money tied up due to the Reserve Bank requirements around the Christchurch earthquakes.

[BlackCross]

Of course you're all quite correct...I made a quick assumption based on no buying for a week :o(


According to Morningstar 'Tower continues to make progress on its share buyback announced in May. To date, 5.5 million shares of the 17.6 million program have been bought back..... Capital management remains a strong focus, and the prospect of more capital management initiatives remains. The balance sheet is strong, with no net debt and with regulatory capital well above minimum requirements. We had already accounted for a buyback, so our earnings forecasts are largely unchanged. Tower remains fairly valued, trading in line with our unchanged NZD 2.00 fair value estimate.

[Baddarcy]

Of course you're all quite correct...I made a quick assumption based on no buying for a week :o(


According to Morningstar 'Tower continues to make progress on its share buyback announced in May. To date, 5.5 million shares of the 17.6 million program have been bought back..... Capital management remains a strong focus, and the prospect of more capital management initiatives remains. The balance sheet is strong, with no net debt and with regulatory capital well above minimum requirements. We had already accounted for a buyback, so our earnings forecasts are largely unchanged. Tower remains fairly valued, trading in line with our unchanged NZD 2.00 fair value estimate.

No worries, asking questions and offering opinions is what this forum is for isn't it ! :-)

Saw this in the NZ Herald this morning, it could explain a bit of the weakness too, TWR has has a fair bit of risk in the Pacific.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11529239

[bull....]

back in this too now, looking forward to results

[bull....]

looking good 2 weeks to results and some nice divs

[bull....]

inverted head an shoulder pattern forming with neckline at 2.10 target 2.30 if breaks dyor

[tim23]

When do you think they will pay inputted dividends again

[bull....]

When do you think they will pay inputted dividends again

dont know, sure they will at some stage as they have in the past

anyway looking good for breakout

[Baddarcy]

dont know, sure they will at some stage as they have in the past

anyway looking good for breakout

They have been making a fair bit of their money from their Pacific business in the last few years. Suspect once the CHCH claims are sorted and the cost associated with them, they may start imputing again.

[winner69]

One reason why investing in insurance companies is hit and miss
https://www.nzx.com/companies/TWR/announcements/273768

Financials are essentially a 'big guess'

Don't insurance companies essentially make most of their money from investing premiums -- while hoping to make a few extra bucks on the claims side if they get underwriting right

[bull....]

I dont think the increase in provisions for claim is a surprise, iag and others have had to increase as well - need to look past this at the underlying earnings of 28m which after buyback as well approx eps 18 div 17-18c div yield 9% pe just over 11 claims nearly complete although hard ones to go with a element of risk 70m of capital in excess still above current buyback. probably be panic sellers around to supply the buyers who couldnt get any under 2.1 but think it be short lived

[macduffy]

I'm not sure that you can have much confidence looking past underwriting losses to an "underlying earnings" number. Underwriting isn't an extraordinary, non-recurring item. It's what insurance companies do!

[winner69]

I'm not sure that you can have much confidence looking past underwriting losses to an "underlying earnings" number. Underwriting isn't an extraordinary, non-recurring item. It's what insurance companies do!

Spot on macduffy - might only be a 'provision' today but chances are it will be a cash item sometime in the future.

Then again the longer they drag the Chch claims out the 'less expensive' it becomes .

[bull....]

I'm not sure that you can have much confidence looking past underwriting losses to an "underlying earnings" number. Underwriting isn't an extraordinary, non-recurring item. It's what insurance companies do!

there underwriting result looked pretty good up 32.1% on last yr could have been significantly better if management costs hadnt increased so much so hopefully they are working on reducing this

[Snow Leopard]

I will now admit to being back on the share register of Tower after a few years away.

Wish I understood why I buy these things. :confused:

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[BIRMANBOY]

What's not to like...has been beaten down in price...returns good yield...and lastly but not leastly.... insurance is something that everyone needs, uses and understands. Also it was up at 2.30 March 2015. I understand why you would buy..even if you don't? Supposedly minimal impact from Fiji so could be a nice SP increase in your future. if I had any spare cash I would have bought myself but have to wait for April dividends:(
I will now admit to being back on the share register of Tower after a few years away.

Wish I understood why I buy these things. :confused:

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger